“One Way or Another” Greenland | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:59Jack Murphy?

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• 2:27Jack Murphy?

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• 2:45Speaker 03

  Everybody, welcome to another episode of Eyes On. We got Mick Mulroy, Jason Lyons here today, myself, Dimitri Kontakos. Lot popping off since we've had our last episode. We did have an emergency pod with Mark Palimoropoulos. It was for Greek Independence Day rather than Signal Gate stuff, but

• 3:03Speaker 04

  No special reason.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I didn't want any Marines, so the podcast, but the Marines are back. And we haven't spoken about Signal Gate publicly. We've been talking about it on our Signal chat, but

• 3:19Speaker 03

  just what's gone on and the subsequent events afterwards where, you know, the entire administration seems to just be spinning this as like not a big deal.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Incredible. I mean, everybody don't really need to rehash what went down. Mostly, everybody knows what went down with Signal Gate. It's been like the talk of the town for like the last week. So, Mick, you start us off. Your thoughts. What if you did this?

• 3:46Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, I'd start off with this. I mean, if if folks were upset about, you know, putting classified information on an email and sending it to a private server and all that, which I was, they should be upset about this. If you're upset about one and not the other, then it's really not about national security, is it? It's more about your performative partisan, you know, beliefs, which is up to you, but I don't have those. So people should deal with classified information the way it's authorized to be dealt with. It protects sources and methods and And to the extent that we're talking about the recent event, it protects military members going into harms way.

• 4:32Speaker 04

  So, um, everybody knows that. Um, everybody that's served in the military and the intelligence community, this isn't, this isn't a hard call, in my opinion. I've seen, I've been in the Pentagon when we've had, I've been obviously on missions. We had a mission chat, you know, my version of it was a little smaller than the, uh, the Department of Defense. When I first got there and saw an actual like full military operation mission chat, I was incredibly impressed. But, um, that's not what we're talking about today. What we're talking about today is taking the TikTok from that, which is definitely in a classified system. Everybody knows it's in a classified system. This is talking about, we're going to attack an enemy using this platform at this time.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  And people say, well, it didn't say the location. Well, the enemy knows where they are, guys, right? So all you need to know is an F-18, where did the F-18 come from? USS Harry Truman, man. That's where they come from. Do they know where the USS Harry Truman is? Yes, they have Iranian surveillance vessels all over the Red Sea. So if you know it's coming in two hours, you know where you are, because they're going after Houthi leadership, and we'll get to that, which is good, a good thing. Um, this disclosed a very sensitive classified information that never should have been out there. Um, it is what it is. Uh, you shouldn't use signals. Yes, you're allowed to use signal. You're also allowed to pick up an open phone in the government. But you're not allowed to do either of those with classified material.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  So, um, I would say the best thing to do, which is a little too late now, and they're not asking me, is take responsibility for your actions. It may be, you screwed up. Um, come up with these and take the consequences and it's up to the president. Uh, and, and come up with a better way to do this in the future that never lets this happen again. That's the way everybody's taught first day at boot camp or OSCS. Uh, but that wasn't what happened. It was, uh, you know, excuse for this and blame this and that. So that's my take, the going forward, we gotta hold everybody accountable for how they treat classified material. It does come down to sources and methods. A lot more you

• 6:41Speaker 04

  could talk about that was put out there in this chat, you know, when it comes to sources that are conducting clandestine operations and other stuff like that. But ultimately, this stuff should never have been put. You can, you cannot add somebody to a classified system that is not in the system, right? You can on signal. And it probably means that this, this person was already in somebody's, you know, contact list. If you're, if you have portable systems that you could use, they can set up a tent. I think I forgot the name of the tent, but maybe Jason remembers it. But in a, in a hotel room, you can obviously go to a SCIF embassy that has a SCIF and jump into the CIA spaces. There's a thousand

• 7:25Speaker 04

  different ways to do it other than to go on a commercial app, which is probably penetrated by our adversaries. Certainly they're trying to. Last thing, and I thought over with Jason is every one of these persons is on the highest collection list for Russia, China, Iran. I was on the highest and I was not, obviously, the Secretary of Defense. And I still am on their list. They tried to, they tried to get into your personal devices and government devices every day. Anything that touches the internet, they're trying to do. And they're, and they also do that against journalists, especially if they report on national security. Because who do they talk to? National security people. So they should probably do an entire

• 8:07Speaker 04

  review of this, figure out how to make sure it never happens again, and determine whether any of these devices had already been penetrated, just to make sure that we know what the enemy might now know.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, I agree with everything that you said, Mick.

• 8:27Speaker 05

  Like you said, from day one, you're taught, whether it's in, you know, boot camp, OCS, onboarding, when you're going to an intelligence agency, whatever it is, that number one, personal responsibility is huge because that will guide everything else. And also, you know, stay off of unclassified platforms to discuss classified things. Like, even if you're, something that we were taught when I was at CIA was, even if you're down the street, I forget the name of that pub that's right down the street from headquarters, and you're with your classmates or your friends or whatever it is, you're not discussing classified information. You're not discussing work, period, because you just don't know. Even if you think the room is

• 9:12Speaker 05

  empty, you don't know if that room is mic'd up. You have no idea. So you have to be aware of that kind of stuff. And also, as you touched on, every one of the people on that were on that group, they've had these briefings, whether they want to say they didn't or not, they've had these briefings. And common sense just tells you that, you know, this is a platform that-

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  And confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Probably kids use, you know, yes, it's a, you know, it's a secure, quote unquote, secure platform, but everybody uses it. So this shouldn't be discussed here. As you also said, everyone's a target on, especially everyone on that group. And I was thinking, I was talking with a friend about it and he did the whole, you know, wasn't classified thing, all this other stuff. And I said, okay, I could almost give it to you if the discussion was had a week after it happened. Or, you know, a month after it happened, but this is two hours before it happened.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  And if I'm not mistaken, and maybe I am, but I, I believe that it was called the Houthi Working Group or something like that. So it's not hard to put it all together, you know, if you're someone who's in there. And I also want to add that the fact that, you know, it, along with the mental gymnastics of dancing around, taking responsibility, but people talking about charging this, the reporter or the editor in chief for this, for, for what? You know, that it's just, it's ridiculous. And, and I'd be having, just like you said, this same conversation, just switching names out if this was a democratic, you know, Democrat administration or somebody else, because wrong is just wrong. So.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  Absolutely. So Jay Gilbert is what you're talking about, Jay. Jay Gilbert.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  Jay Gilbert.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Everybody's gonna go there. But yeah, you want to run into some agency people. Yeah. I, I would point out to the last point that Jenny made is,

• 12:32Speaker 04

  if that's the idea, like it didn't say classified, then technically anybody in a SCIF could read a document that has TSSCI code word this and take all the information out of it. Take it outside, not take the, and just text it and it's not classified.

• 12:47Speaker 05

  I know someone, sorry to interrupt. I know someone who got fired from the agency for doing just that, cutting, printing out. They were printing out cables, cutting the classification off the headers and the footer. And not taking it out of the building, but like discussing with people it didn't need to be discussed with.

• 13:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's it's it's common sense. It's this. Yes, it is the sources and methods, but it's especially in this case, it's the information.

• 13:13Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Right. This is this is stuff that could get people killed. And I'm not partisan, so I I'm just gonna call balls and strikes all the time. I just wish more people would, you know, decouple themselves from being partisan and just focus more on just being American and saying, hey, this is obviously something that should not have been done, uh, and it needs to not happen in the future. And then i- if the next step uh is talking about Yemen, that is actually what we should be talking about if there wasn't for this, you know, I think, series of mistakes, because this is a pretty substantial escalation in a region.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, one quick question about like when you do, when you are a principal and you're starting at a new job. And let's say you are a Whitkoff or you are somebody who's not really been in the governmental world, like national security world. Or Pexeth, right? Like he's never been, he's was in uh the military, but he's never been to that level. I mean, the first day you've got to be getting fucking briefs on like what to do, what not to do, right? Like, that's gotta be first and foremost. So it's not exactly like it was a couple of years ago and the things slipped his mind. Like this is like relatively recently. And um, you have a serious fucking job, man. Like, take it seriously.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  And you are provided with communications where you can chat with people about what's going on. Do that in the right way. Like I it, I said the joke last week with you guys, like, you know, my dumb friends from Brooklyn have better like opsec. And some of these people that are supposed to have like the highest secrets that we've, you know, the Secretary of Defense, like you're the top of the food chain. Um, national security visor as well, you're top of the food chain, um. So it's just kind of mind boggling how this could happen and how they could add a reporter, editor in chief of the Atlantic to the crew chat.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  And yeah, like, go ahead, mix.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  And you have a staff too. I mean, so, you know, one of the things I told my staff was if I'm screwing up, tell me, you know, don't think you're gonna hurt my feelings. I'd rather just do the, do it the right way than and get counseled by my staff than and the other. So sure. Every one of their staff, I mean, and they have active uniform advisors, obviously to the Secretary of Defense and all the way down in his his staff. I did, they'll be, they'll turn you up real quick if you're, especially if you're breaking OPSEC when it comes to a military operation, right? They take that very personal. So I don't know how this broke down. There's certainly a question of whether this is just the first time to Jay's point.

• 15:51Speaker 04

  It said the Houthi PC small group. PC small group is the the normal term for the Principal's Committee Meeting of it's pared down because it's sensitive, right? You don't need the Secretary of Treasury.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Even though he was in there. Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, they could, they could pare it down.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Sure, sure.

• 16:10Speaker 04

  That the small means it's it's not the full PC where, you know, you have every Secretary of Agriculture and all that. So that's a question of whether this is the only time it happened. I mean, is there they're labeling it of what you would label the actual meeting. So I don't know. I don't know. I wish people would just own up to it and then and then come up with the policy that, you know, fixes it. And then we can start talking about, wow, so 100 sorties in like a 24 hour period.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  Being off just trying to hit the the target facilities or the the launch facilities, rather, they're going after the leadership.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  Which is great, I think.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:49Speaker 04

  It's about time that these these Houthi leaders that like to get on with their, you know, you know, 500 ribbons and talk about. You know, if I can, um, innocent unarmed civilian vessels, you know, trying to get through the Red Sea, uh, start time, they, they start paying the price. So, uh, hats off to those who carried off the mission. And I think it was the right policy decision. Uh, we'll see if it works, but, um, the only way you're going to find out is to actually do this. And they're moving, you know, I think, uh, the USS Carl Vinson's in Guam, and even now it'll be there mid-April, I think. That's, that is, uh, publicly available information.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  I just Googled it. Um, they are moving, and I know we're going to get into this. I think there's multiple, uh, B2s that have moved to Diego Garcia. There's an F-35 squadron's coming in. I mean, they are getting ready to tune up some, some, uh, and I think that's the right answer. Uh, and it's also supposed to send a message to Iran, which I think it will.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  I think that's basically what the main thing is about, right? Like sending the message to Iran. Um, cause I mean, you don't need five B2s to hit Houthi targets, right? Like, what are we doing? Right? Um, and the B2, like we discussed last week, is the only plane that can carry the mop, the big boy, you know, 30,000 pound penetrator. Um, what are you trying to hit with that? Right? And I, yeah, so, yeah, thank you. And like, um, you know, B2s can probably move around without their transponders on and get to from 1.8 to point B where it's not getting picked up on open source, uh, Twitters and stuff

• 18:39Speaker 03

  that follow aviation. Like, let's be real, right? Like, so there's a reason why they're putting this out there, uh, that we're moving such like that much hardware to a certain place, which is in striking distance of Iran. Like, the B2s can take off from St. Louis, uh, from Missouri and bomb Iran and come back. You know, it's not exactly like, so I, I mean, it's kind of clear what's going on. Hopefully it does make I- Iran come to the negotiating table for their nuclear weapons. And, uh, hopefully Israel doesn't pop off beforehand. Um,

• 19:10Speaker 03

  One quick last thing with Pete Hexeth and the Signal Gate stuff and the lack of OPSEC from the Wall Street Journal yesterday, last night, Hexeth brought his wife to sensitive meetings with foreign military officials. Mick, you were in the DOD. Did you bring your wife to sensitive meetings with other, you know, your, uh, your counterparts from foreign militaries?

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Uh, no, I mean, I don't, I don't know what they're mean by sensitive. And I don't mean that as a way just to defend, um, Secretary Hexeth. I, I, is it a meeting where?

• 19:44Speaker 03

  Like a meeting group?

• 19:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they definitely, you know, spouses fall apart a lot of these, like I've been to events, a lot of events where I was there as the DSD, um, with my wife, right? Uh, she's been doing that for 30 years, right? So like, right, I mean, I've gone to a lot of meetings I didn't really want to go to. Um, so I don't, I don't know what the meeting was. So it's, it's impossible for me to, um, to really.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  Sure. It's not like a, a state visit where you, it's a dinner or dinner party or something like that.

• 20:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:17Speaker 05

  Sorry. One last, last thing. Um, I'm curious as to, and I'm saying curious because I, I don't know the answer. Um, as to legality of, and I, I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard that the meeting, uh, the Signal group chat was set to disappear, the, the messages to disappear after a certain amount of time. Um, I don't know what that violates, you know? Um, I do know, and Mick, you know as well, that, uh, the mantra is, uh, if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen. So I don't know if that's what we're doing here, you know, but I'm just curious about that.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  Uh, that's a good point, Jay. So there's a record law, which is like they take, um, even at my level, they would take, they took all the notes that I wrote. And I'm sure nobody can ever read them, but. Yeah, there's you have to you have to keep all especially in this, especially in the PCC meetings, that the Policy Coordination Committee, which is the the baseline inside the NSC, which is the old executive building, right, ex White House, right? So there's there's people from the OD CIA, state and folks that come and meet in the NSC. And it goes, the Policy Coordination Committee, which is what my level was, then you have the deputies committees,

• 21:33Speaker 04

  the deputy secretaries of this, that and the other. Then you have the PC, which is the principals committee. So the actual secretaries, and then if the president is there, it's called the NSC. So it's the PC plus the president makes the NSC. But all that stuff, there there's recorded. I don't think they actually record it, but they they take notes and then people actually sign off on all was said. So we all agree, primarily, we could agree what we agree to and and what we're all going to do to make it happen, right? Under the records keeping act that way, under the like transparency of government, that people can eventually one day when it's declassified, say, oh, that's how the bad things happen.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So a little bit more about Hexeth's wife, just to get the facts in there. Hexeth's wife Jennifer Hexeth has been present at two meetings where sensitive information was discussed, according to the Wall Street Journal citing multiple people who were present at the meetings or have knowledge of her presence at them. The first meeting was a high level discussion at the Pentagon with the top UK military officials, including the UK Minister of Defence, John Healy, took place in early March, the day after the US was announced the US would stop sharing military military aid and intelligence with Ukraine. And the second was in Brussels in mid February at NATO headquarters during a meeting of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group, a forum of about 50 nations meant to help coordinate military support for Ukraine as it tries to fight off its invasion from Russia.

• 22:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, again, sensitive is.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  If it was a, it was a meeting in which classified information was being discussed, and I don't know that it was, then the rules apply to everybody. So if you don't have a clearance or need to know, it shouldn't be in there. If it's, if it was just high level discussions that weren't classified, I mean, that's.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know. I can't, I don't, I'm not cast a judgment on something that I don't know all the facts and, and I'm really not here to cast judgment. I'm just to explain what I think, you know, the rules are.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  So back to the Houthis and, you know, Yemen, we did hit them yesterday as well, um, the last couple of days, hit a bunch of targets. I think they said over seventy five.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  So it's still going on. I mean, hopefully at some point, um, Red Sea kind of loosens up a little bit in terms of a trade.

• 23:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is going on, um, when I was still in government. So this idea, it's all about Gaza. I mean, they've, they've been attacking. They attacked the Saudi oil facilities. They attacked you. They tried to, they almost hit, uh, the international, uh, terminal at, in Abu Dhabi. They being the Houthis, uh, they obviously tried to attack Israel. They tried to, I mean, we, I saw one report where our destroyer going through the Red Sea was, they tried to attack it a hundred and twenty times. Right? So, and then they've hit and killed, uh, uh, uh, crew on commercial vessels. So they're terrorists. They're doing terrorist activities. They're attacking the US. Um, it's not primary. I mean, the US has taken the lead because we're the ones, and you can see that in the chat, actually.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 04

  We are the only ones that have the capability to do a lot about this. Uh, the French have a aircraft carrier there right now, I think, in the, near the Ba'ab al-Mandeb. Uh, but essentially no country can do this without the United States. So we have a coalition, but it's really led by us. Uh, it's not, I mean, I think that's our place in the world, a leader in the world. We have the capability. But China gets more energy from this region than we do. Europe, Europe does send more trade through this region. Other countries need to step up. But I think it's the right decision by the United States. You know, we could see the disagreement in the chat. I think that ultimately the president made the right decision that we need to amp up our efforts against the Houthis.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  Because what we were doing before clearly wasn't working and there's no guarantee this will work. But people tend to get at, you get their attention when you start killing them. Right. When the leadership starts seeing, it's not just the, you know, Joe Schmo that's, that's trying to launch these drones is getting schwacked. When it's, you know, the head Poo Bah general and a lot of them got killed on these last few strikes. Where we've started focusing, focusing intelligence, the CIA has obviously got their, their stuff together and they're up and running in Yemen and they are taking out some of these senior leaders. And I think that's, that's a good thing. If you want, if, you know, I got asked on foreign media a lot like, well, isn't this going to destabilize the region? Well, Iran's destabilizing the region.

• 26:11Speaker 04

  So if these guys want to stabilize the region, stop attacking commercial vessels in, in the US military. If you did that, I'm sure that the stabilization would, would come back to the full. But this is Iran and I know we're going to get to Iran and this is the Houthis and I think we'll see how it goes. It's going to take a while, but I think this was the right policy.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Um, it's interesting too, cause like the UK has got aircraft carriers.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  You know, China does, China's got a base in Djibouti, like. What's up guys? You know what I mean? Like they can step up. I mean. It would, it would make sense if they kind of did too. And I get there's more to this than just like the free passage of goods and stuff. It's definitely a message to Iran. Let's not kid ourselves. You know what I mean?

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Cause like, it seems like the Houthis for the, for right now at least are like the only proxy force that's kind of still. I guess tough because I'm sure Hezbollah is still act, very active and as well as Hamas, but they're the only proxy force that's really.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Kind of in, in Israel's kind of periphery, I would say, rather than their focus on Hezbollah and Hamas and stuff like that.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  And yeah, that's all I got. I don't know where I was going with that, but whatever. Um, so yeah, Iran, what happens? Make speculate for me.

• 27:40Speaker 04

  So the I, I think you're 100% right, Dee. This is a message to Iran for two reasons, right? Iran supports all these groups, right? The, the Houthis didn't come up with advanced drones that can go from northern Yemen and hit,

• 27:56Speaker 04

  Ben Gurion Airport, right? Uh, this came from Iran. Uh, their targeting information on the US vessels comes from the surveillance ships that are on.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  All this stuff is Iran. They backed, they started Hezbollah, right? It was the IRGC Kuts Force, uh, kind of a combination of our CIA and JSOC.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  They started Hezbollah. That's their most significant, and Israel's done a number on them. Uh, they funded Hamas. 90% of their, uh, military support came from Iran, and if they didn't have military support, they wouldn't be conducting attacks, right? And they support the Houthis. I'd say the Houthis are probably the least,

• 28:36Speaker 04

  able to be directed by Iran, but they're still in the proxy category. And if they didn't give them weapon systems, they wouldn't be, I mean, who cares? If they're just up there ranting and raving in the mountains and they don't have any ability to do it. So they're responsible for these folks and we, we had to start with that. Second, uh, President Trump sent a letter, apparently, this is in the media, um, to the regime in Iran and said, you need to come back to the table. We need to discuss a, a, a new nuclear agreement. The past nuclear agreement, the biggest criticism was it didn't address the proxy operations, right? It just, just, it just addressed them not getting a nuke. Uh, there was a lot of discussion when we decided to get out in 2018

• 29:19Speaker 04

  that we should still keep it because we still don't want to have a nuke and then we should just address the proxy separately. But we decided to get out. We did get out. We put a lot of sanctions on them. It was called the maximum pressure campaign. Uh, I did think that had an effect with them funding, but they still obviously kept funding. Uh, they figured a way to wait around the sanctions and to sell their oil and all that stuff. An hour to a point where in a breakout scenario, they have enough enriched uranium of the 60% breakout scenario could be a month and they would have enough enriched uranium weapons great range its nuclear weapons. Then they would have to they have to come up with a triggering mechanism.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  And then, of course, figure out how to deliver it, but you could deliver it on a barge or a Dow, which is a small boat. So it's a triggering mechanism, but they could get that from North Korea, Russia. So this is a very real concern for multiple administrations. We've said it's completely unacceptable for Iran to have a nuclear weapon. There's got to be some meaning to that. And I think what the Trump administration, the second one, is doing is saying there is meaning to that. So we see six plus maybe B twos that are in strike distance. And I think you're right, Dee, they turn those transponders on for a reason. So everybody knows.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  And there are officials telling reporters right now, US officials, like this is the reason why we're sending the B twos. They had the two month period for Iran to come back to the negotiate negotiation table is up. The next step, clearly from President Trump's comments, is potential direct military action. So I don't think anybody should view this as just bluster. I think it's I think it's meaningful and I think we're really the only country unless we do a lot to support Israel that can can can actually carry this out. Israel might do it if they feel like they're we're not going to. But the US has the capacity.

• 31:28Speaker 04

  It would be a significant military event, but it is it is doable and they're getting everything into place because it's not just the bombers, right? I'm not going to go into details, but you got to you got to mitigate air missile defense systems. You got all that stuff to make sure we can do it. So it requires a lot of other, but you're seeing all this stuff flowing to the region. And I hope I hope Iran takes the right decision, comes to negotiation table because the US is offering a diplomatic way out. If they choose not to do that and to go for a nuclear weapon, then unacceptable, I mean so. Hope you do.

• 32:05Speaker 05

  I mean, agreed.

• 32:07Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 32:22Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 32:33Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 32:44Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 33:04Speaker 05

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Um, there's not much more I can say. I think that, yeah, this was all put out there publicly for a reason. And like you said, hopefully Iran will take the message

• 33:47Speaker 05

  and come to the negotiating table willingly, rather than having to be physically dragged because, you know, they just got decimated. Their country was decimated militarily. So hopefully they'll take it. And I, I'm gonna, rare times say this, I applaud the administration for, you know, this is the one, one of the times that I say, being public about it and blustering, quote unquote, about it is, you know, it could work. I'm not going to say it's absolutely gonna, but it's something that past administrations have not done, and I think it's high time for it.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, this could be an interesting next month.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, this past week too, there was kind of went out the radar, obviously. Um, Israel sent a delegation to DC to discuss. What to do, I guess, with Iran, um. And whether they go with solo or with our help or with us, you know, involved completely. Um, I mean, listen, man, if you're, if I know Iran's the enemy and stuff, but if you're Iran, like, what do you, what else do you see in terms of like? If your proxies are decimated and you have Israel who's extremely belligerent. What else, what other move is there to do to secure your regime? I'm just thinking pragmatically, I'm not a fan of the Ayatollah. I'm not like.

• 35:07Speaker 04

  Ah, I mean, crazy idea, but they could basically give up their. Proxy operations, stop their nuclear ambitions, have all the sanctions released. Are relieved, uh, and unleash their economy. Yeah. I mean, as I, I'm sure you guys know, the, the Iranian population is very modern, very sophisticated, very educated. They have a middle class, uh, certainly from the education perspective, they do, they would do really well on the international economy. I think, uh, and yeah, but does that preserve the regime? I don't know, they're gonna say, well, if we get, you know, the middle, it's maybe they'll, well, yes, but, um.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  It's unacceptable, I mean, they have caused essentially, if you look at behind the curtain, all of the problems of the Middle East, right? Uh, Israel doesn't want to pick up a war with Iran, why would they? I mean, it's stupid, that, that Israel is a burgeoning economy, very modern place. Um, but yet they got to get attacked on four sides all the time. So, uh, and it, it, that propagation leads away from a, any kind of diplomatic resolution to the Palestinian issue.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:18Speaker 04

  Right now you go to Israel, because you know, I go there quite often. I mean, even right, right, left and center now, they don't even want to hear about two-stage solution, right? People that were adamant for adamantly for the two-state solution.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  Because of the current situation, Iran does not help the Palestinian people at all. I mean, look at it, look at Gaza, it's completely decimated, it looks like, you know, Stalingrad or Dresden or something. That was because ultimately Iran, they they gave the weapon systems to Hamas that they used to attack Israel on October 7th. You don't have to be, you know, a national security analyst to figure out what Israel is going to do to an attack like that. And it happened. So Iran is the problem of the Middle East. I think that's clear. And they could, they're at a fork in the road. So we'll see which fork, which direction they take. I think, I hope they take the diplomatic path. It's better for everybody.

• 37:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think in my, in my miniscule knowledge of, of all of this. It's like common sense. If you do it now, if the regime comes to the table now, they can get out of it with savings, with some face saving. You know, I don't think this is going to be a post-World War I, pre-World War II Germany where it's like just devastated economically, militarily and everything and, you know, has to, you know, bend the knee. They could get out of it saving some face and say, well, we did this, you know, we willingly did this for our people. Whereas if they take the step, they get the trigger, they're, you know, just about ready to launch and they just get destroyed.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  Well, now, now it's going to be a pre-World War I Germany, you know. Um, so I, I think it comes down to power and ego with any, you know, regime, any government. It's we don't want to let go because we have the power and we don't want to bruise our egos by admitting that we, we just took it too far.

• 38:15Speaker 04

  That's a great way to put it. They, the administration literally ought to just take what you just said and use that. Like, that, that is a clear path and you're right.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  Safe face.

• 38:27Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 38:28Speaker 05

  The emperor did it after the Japanese emperor, he did it, he said, I'm doing this for my people. You know, I, we're, we're, we're giving this up for our people. He was able to save some face, you know. Um, but power and ego get in the way every time.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 38:45Speaker 04

  True.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, really well said. A little bit of history, though, right? Like, I know this is like this kind of more of like a thought exercise like. If we didn't go into Iraq, would Iran be this like regional as big of a regional power that it is now?

• 39:05Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, I mean, they it would have been a different scenario. I take I take your point.

• 39:12Speaker 04

  But Iran had already started Hezbollah. Hezbollah before nine eleven was the most significant terrorist organization against the US. They killed more Americans than any other. Groups Iran was super destabilizing. Uh, before the Iraq invasion, what, two thousand and three? Um, one could certainly argue we shouldn't have done that. Uh, it had little to no. Uh, nexus to nine eleven. But to point out, our NATO allies still went with us.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:42Speaker 04

  Uh, they still went with us and a lot of them got killed. Uh, just because they honored the treaty, uh, even though they certainly could have made an argument like, wait a minute. So Al Qaeda attacks you and. Now we're taking down the Saddam. Um, so just a point there, just a point of, uh, the history of NATO. Uh, but I I do think Iran. Uh, that was their intent. They they have utilized our invasion of Iraq it to to certain extent to their advantage. But they always do. They always imbue the they take any kind of destabilized. A situation and turn it into. Um, essentially a worse situation. And they think it's in their national interest.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  Right. Speaking of our NATO allies, um, are you guys looking for a property in Greenland or what? Like, what are we gonna do? Cause that's also been in the news, uh, unfortunately. Uh, kind of like, I don't know why, absolute waste of time. You know, and Greenland is technically a territory of Denmark, correct? Yeah, Denmark's lost guys in Iraq and Afghanistan, the war on terror, like they stepped up for us. And we're trying to take a piece of their land, which is absolutely. For somebody who prides himself as or talks himself up about being an isolationist, uh, annexing land. Doesn't really scream that out to me unless it's like a new age isolationism. Like, I don't know.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Uh Mick, what are your thoughts? Cause I could see you, I could picture you just sitting in a DOD meeting and they're talking about something with Greenland and you're like, what the fuck? I mean, you wouldn't do it, but you mean, what the hell's going on here? Like, we got real shit to deal with.

• 41:27Speaker 04

  So like before we came on or we started recording, I told you, like, I geeked out on the Arctic when I was in the Pentagon and people kept, you know, reminding me, I was the freaking Middle East guy, so beat it, right? But ultimately, this is about, this is about the Arctic, right? So the ice cap is melting. There is massive amounts of oil, gas and rare earth minerals in the Arctic region to include Greenland. And there is passageways, it makes the world much, much, much more small. I mean, take your globe, look at it from the top and see how close Europe and the United States and everything actually is from that direction.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  So, uh, and I won't, I don't wanna, you know, drone on too much, but it essentially, there's eight countries that have direct access to the Arctic. Almost all except for Russia are in NATO. So we have a huge advantage in the United States, thanks to the, the smartness of purchasing Alaska, um, is one of them, right? But we also have key NATO allies, uh, all the rest of what Norway, Iceland, Canada.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, allies. Maybe not so much anymore.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, they always were.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  No, I know.

• 42:41Speaker 04

  People we know. I think the Canada and, and Greenland, uh, interest is not, it's not, you know, economic equality. Maybe there's a part of it. It's in Greenland's not because, you know, they're not defending themselves. It's about US wanting to dominate the Arctic, right? So China's trying, they got, you know, the, the polar silk road. They're, they're, they're, they're, and I don't know why they're allowed. They have some scientific bases in Iceland and I think Norway, that should be canked. Uh, they've tried to get into Greenland and Greenland and Denmark, uh, as well as the request of the US canked it.

• 43:22Speaker 04

  So there's actually no Russian or Chinese military presence in Greenland, not, not accurate. Uh, the US used to have three air bases in a, in a, in a Navy base. We had over 12,000. troops there. It was significant during the Cold War. We had intercept and detect missile launches and we even had ground based, I think, launchers for nuclear. We had strategic bombers. We basically withdrew all that. So one of the countries that has neglected the security of Greenland as it relates to the US is the US. We now have one base with 150 MoDdies

• 44:06Speaker 04

  there, right? So that is not a big investment by the United States in Greenland security, or since it's always been about our security, because it's because of its positioning, our security. So I think we could go back and ask Denmark and Greenland if we could put more troops there, have more direct access to the Arctic. And Russia, of course, claimed like more than half of the Arctic, which is not accurate, and so did Canada. And so all these overlapping claims of economic, it seems to me that the way to do this that

• 44:46Speaker 04

  is more likely to be successful is to go in with our NATO partners that have Arctic presence and combine for the exploitation of oil, gas, and push back against Russia. That's the odd man out in this in this circle, literally the circle, right? And if we need to put more military, Russia has 50 bases in the Arctic, by the way. So they're they're doing the opposite. They have, you know, the TU 160s, the strategic bombers, the biggest heavies lifting fastest strategic bombers that could drop nukes on the United States. They have them up there. They have make 31s. They've got nuclear powered ice cutters. They

• 45:28Speaker 04

  have gone all in. So if we need to catch up, I think the best way to do it is to catch up with the partnership of our NATO allies and focus on the adversary, which in this circle is Russia, not Iceland, not Norway, Denmark through Greenland, not Canada, obviously. Anyway, that's my, so.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  I mean, that that sounds like an understandable strategy from a common like a common sense, thoughtful person.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  Strategy that seems to be coming out of the administration does seems to be the antithesis of what Maybe it's the same goal. But annexing allies doesn't exactly sound like great strategy to me.

• 46:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  I'm a dummy, but you know.

• 46:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, I I agree. I I think that um bare bones of it is. It's a great want. It's a great, you know, strategy, but or um I should say it's a great long term plan and need, but the way it's presented to the world. When you're a world leader and you use world uh words like when you say things like we're gonna have it one way or another. That doesn't. You know, that doesn't um um generate any kind of confidence from your your allies, especially the people of Greenland. You know, and then when you use words like annex, me personally, when I hear annex automatically go back to uh pre World War Two Germany, you know, I start thinking of, you know, things like that. So it's

• 47:08Speaker 05

  people can say, oh, it's just blustering. It's just, you know, misspeaking. Well, when you're a world leader and you're a world when you're a superpower. Words mean things. They have, you know, really, really big meaning. So um I think if it had been like one of those behind closed doors like Mick said, you know, hey, with our NATO allies and um go behind closed doors, we come to some sort of agreement and then open the doors, have a press conference and say this is what we agreed to instead of saying we'll have it one way or another, because that's all people are gonna hear. One way or another. You know, um and even if they didn't mean militarily, that's what people are gonna think. That's what other world leaders are gonna think.

• 47:44Speaker 05

  So we we gotta do better with uh the way we're um and when I say we um I mean, the president um and his cabinet, the way they speak publicly about these things. They have to do better because the message is getting lost in we're gonna take it whether you like it or not.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  Right, now, am I, like, if we're, to the Vice President's point, that we need Greenland to be secure for our security, which certainly can make the argument that it is, then we could send more troops there.

• 48:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 04

  And I

• 48:17Speaker 05

  And they would let us, I think.

• 48:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think they would, now, except for now.

• 48:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  Because they're gonna be like, wait a minute, is this gonna be a slow invasion here? You know, so, yeah, I mean, I think, I think that the interest is, is right, the policy interest in the region is right. I think the focus on trying to annex NATO allies' territory, when we could simply cooperate with them, have joint ventures, I mean, all these rare earth minerals that we're interested in, require a lot of investment to actually get out of the ground. Right, and so, and we could come in with the investment, the US, right? And then we could reap the benefits, so could our NATO allies.

• 49:04Speaker 04

  You know, and, and that's another way to do it, that's what I'd recommend. And if this is just rhetoric, I, I kind of feel like this is, even if they have no intent, obviously, of invading Greenland or something like that, I think it makes the whole cooperation more difficult, to Jay's point, what Jay just said, yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, case in point, the Vice President was visiting Greenland, and no one came to see him, he had, he went to the one base that we do have there, for a few hours, and then headed home. I mean, yeah, just the way they're doing things, what's the word, that's a good word, it's not a bad word, is, is, is head scratching, I'll be hon, yeah, it's completely head scratching.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  On the, on, on the form, I would say, on the substance, I think it's a good thing that we're starting to look at Not being so reliant on every other country, in some cases our adversaries for stuff that we know we're gonna need.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 50:10Speaker 04

  Right? So some of these rare earth minerals, what they make all these, these, you know, advanced technological devices, which the whole world's running on now, and a lot of them come out of China. So I like the idea personally that we have more autonomy for the United States on making things and having access to things. You know, I just, I would just advocate for a different way of going about it.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  All right, guys. That's all I got. What do you, anything else on your mind that you want to get, you know?

• 50:44Speaker 04

  Um, I think that's, that's a lot of stuff.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yep. Guys, of course, if you want to find folks out there, if you want to find the guys, the links are all in the description. McMalroy, Fogbow, Lobo, Lobo Institute, all in the description. Jason Lyons, of course, any and all links. Andy Milburn, his book in the description. Do us a favor, patreon.com slash the team house. You get both the team house and Izon ad free. If you pay $10 a month, you get all that plus a patch sent to your home. We ship internationally as well, like Europe and stuff. I don't know if we could send it to like Djibouti or something, but I'll try, I'll figure it out. I'll make, I'll

• 51:28Speaker 03

  try and get it to you. If we have one fan in Djibouti, by the way. Yeah, and that's it. Thanks, guys. This was great.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  Thanks, everybody. All right.

• 51:44Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 51:58Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

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  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

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  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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• 53:58Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 54:13Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 54:24Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

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  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes,

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• 56:06Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 56:21Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 56:32Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 56:43Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota.

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  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 58:08Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 58:18Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 58:30Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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• 59:47Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:00:02Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:00:13Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:00:24Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair.

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  This is an advertisement for Zolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:02:16Speaker 05

  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.