How the U.S. Lost Credibility Across the Globe w/ Luis Rueda | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

today I'm joined by 27 year veteran of the CIA Luis Rueda. Find Luis here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-rueda-b060a217/ https://x.com/LuisRUE38318851 New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.soci Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 2:50Speaker 05

  Hey everybody welcome to another episode of eyes on a really special guest today we have Louis Rita he's a former senior CIA officer spent over 27 years in the CIA

• 3:02Speaker 05

  we have a oh we have a great episode with him on the team house so after you watch this if you haven't watched that yet check that out it's episode 254 the link will be in the description I'll have all the links to find Luis on down in description as well and if you want to catch these episodes completely ad free early to a couple days early both on video and audio you could check us out on Patreon that link is in the description as well patreon.com slash the team house Louis thanks for doing this really appreciate it My pleasure

• 3:37Speaker 05

  So a lot happening it's funny because every time I do this show and I'm the host now somehow

• 3:44Speaker 05

  I always say a lot's going on or a lot's cooking and it always seems to be the case it's not even like you know we'll be in a signal chat and we'll be like you know what there's not really much going on what do we really want to talk about do we want to focus on something that's a little bit more evergreen or not like but it seems to be like every day there's something different as of yesterday China was doing some some exercises around the island of Taiwan that's was the big one as of last night they were putting out a lot of press statements and stuff like that that I was looking at on Twitter basically people were calling it shaping or like what shaping with

• 4:25Speaker 05

  like a shaping operation would look like and this and that I mean what what's your view on that

• 4:31Speaker 06

  Well, getting to your first point about something happening, I kind of agree with that. I bet you, as we're talking now, some chaotic thing is occurring right now. And what it's amazing is so much of it is driven by us, as opposed to the United States reacting to events happening throughout the world. We're creating all these problems and chaos. The Pacific is one great example, and as you point out, you know, the Chinese are doing these military maneuvers around Taiwan. They've been doing them for a while, and they've actually also done them around Australia and sent combat ships around Australia. There's

• 5:11Speaker 06

  a lot of reasons for that. You've got the basic practice, training, getting ready. In the event they decide to pull the trigger and invade Taiwan, or there is a war with the US, and they have to go after US allies. It is also the possibility that it's getting everybody used to this. And the more accustomed you become to seeing dozens and dozens of Chinese ships operating in these waters on a regular basis, you may not pay as much attention as you should when the real thing comes. And there's always the political pressure. But I think, while that is not necessarily concerning, but something that we should

• 5:53Speaker 06

  be paying attention to, and trying to figure out, and hopefully they do know, why the Chinese are doing this, I think one thing that is much, much more significant, and I've not been able to corroborate this, because this has come out of Chinese government communications. They claim that Japan, South Korea, and China are talking about a joint coordinated answer to US tariffs on Asia. For me, that is concerning, because our two most important allies in East Asia, Japan and South Korea, are now looking to cooperate with China instead of the US. And you can see the...

• 6:38Speaker 06

  Decline of US influence, US capabilities. I mean, remember, we've got huge bases in South Korea and Japan that we are going to rely on to defend Taiwan to some extent. We've got Guam, but those bases are not enough. We need the big, developed, large bases that we have with those allies. We're watching our allies begin to doubt us, to doubt our resolve, to doubt whether they can trust us, to doubt when we say we're going to do this. You know, our most recent history is, no, we're probably not going to do it. We may, we may not.

• 7:20Speaker 06

  If it comes to us protecting you, we may start squeezing you as the troops start to land on the beach and we may want something from you. And this all started when Trump won, and that's the number one, Trump administration won, pulled out of the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, where the US had lined up all the nations, all the economic powerhouses of Asia, excluding China, in a economic community, and it was going to be an economic isolation of China. We walked away from that.

• 7:57Speaker 06

  And all these countries that had come on board, that we have coaxed, strong-armed, cajoled into joining, or left holding the bag and say, wait a minute, this is pointless. And it's not just the Asians, it's all the Latin American countries too that we had brought in, the Pacific Rim. So the US leadership and US influence in the Pacific and other places has really declined. And I think that's going to embolden the Chinese as they begin to peel away our friends and allies, because they're also working very hard in Latin America, a big chunk of

• 8:37Speaker 06

  which borders the Pacific, that we may not be in a position to stop them from taking over Taiwan. And there could be a sense within the Chinese Politburo that despite what we say, we may not even do it. We may not even do it. So they're pretty much getting a free hand in Asia, and all our partners in Asia are saying, well, if the US is not going to be there for us, we might as well make the deal with the devil.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  God, yeah, that's scary. I mean, it doesn't make sense to, it does make sense. Like, there's a little bit of mixed signals coming out, right? Because usually the, uh, the messaging out of the White House and the Trump administration, even from the first term, first administration was tough on China, tough on China.

• 9:22Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Uh, and it's clear that, you know, we don't really, not that we don't want to be, but at least the administration doesn't want to be. I could see that there, there being a little bit of like a back and forth between like the business interests that are trying to do business in China and like the more traditional neo con, you know, Reagan era Republicans who want to like project and be a little bit more tough and the world's policeman and you know, every pick your, pick your, you know, label. Um, it was interesting because we just, before we started, you were talking about like, you know, the broader sense of what we're going to talk about and there's a loss of US credibility internationally.

• 10:05Speaker 05

  Um, and the isolationism. I mean, if I'm Taiwan and I'm seeing what's going on with Ukraine and our lack of, you know, wanting to help them, I'm, I'm definitely worried.

• 10:18Speaker 06

  Yes. Yeah. Uh, I think, and they're not the only ones. I think there's a lot of countries that are worried. Uh, they, for the, since World War II, it's, it's pretty much been, uh, the American era. Uh, and, and we have shaped and directed what the world looks like today. Uh, and not out of any sense of altruism that, you know, we love mankind and.

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• 12:40Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, it benefited the US. It benefited the US economically. It made us a powerhouse. Our military strength in part relies on the multiple, the 150, 200, nobody knows how many bases we have around the world from friends and allies where we can project power. People, countries are now looking and saying, well, that's all going away. The US is willingly abrogating that leadership role. What, what fills the void? That hasn't been answered and nobody knows, but that creates an era of instability. And even, you know, it affects the, the private sector. The private sector had a free hand economically out the world because the US was there.

• 13:26Speaker 06

  To ensure that a Western liberal economic, and I use liberal not in the left or right sense of the word, but in the sense of freedoms, the economic sense, created stability, it created markets for US corporations to operate in, that instability is going to change that. And you cannot, and we cannot, in the 21st century rely on only domestic consumption and domestic production. It doesn't work that way anymore. This is not 1910. So that's going to hurt in a whole host of places. And every, you know, right now, I have the

• 14:07Speaker 06

  impression that the only tool in the US toolbox is a hammer. The only way we want to get things done is we threaten everybody. Do this, or we'll blow you up, or we'll invade. You know, Greenland is a great example. Yeah. The whole, "We need Greenland for national security" is a bullshit argument. We've always had Greenland for national security. Greenland is affiliated with Denmark. It's part of NATO. We've had bases there. At one point, we had 10,000 US service members stationed in Greenland. We closed the bases down because the Soviet Union collapsed. Yeah. If they wanted bases again, all they gotta do is ask, and they'll give them to

• 14:50Speaker 06

  us. So it's not about security. It's not about, you know, you could start to see it's about money. And somebody wants a piece of those resources, and someone's going to benefit financially. But the question is, are we going to benefit in the national security sense from taking over another country unwillingly? My answer is no. It's not going to, it's going to do damage to us. And it is part of, I think, the lead up to the US walking away from NATO.

• 15:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, just from the leaked stuff that you saw where, you know, Vance and Hegseth were both commiserating in terms of like, talking about how, you know, free ride for Europe again and stuff like that. Just real anti-European sentiment, which I don't really fucking understand. Like, I understand, like, wanting Europe to and the NATO countries to pull their own weight and pay the minimum and do what they need to do. And that's fine. And there's definitely ways of doing that. And like, if you someone who I have a hard time believing like this whole, this whole, all this messaging and going after Canada and Greenland is just to get the European nations that are in NATO to spend their up to their share, right? Like,

• 16:06Speaker 05

  I can't, if that's the, if that's the move, like, I can't really understand. It's a dumb move, I would say, right? Because there's probably other ways of doing it to get and like, you see what's going on now. Most of the countries now NATO are all going to spend or exceed what they need to pay for NATO to, you know, the minimum 2% or whatever.

• 16:29Speaker 05

  And it's good that Europe is stepping up, I think, for sure. But at the same time, like, you can't alienate your, like, what are we doing? Like, these are the allies we've had for the longest time. And Nick's talked about this a ton, where the only time Article 5 has ever been triggered and used was after 9/11, when, you know,

• 16:47Speaker 06

  US was the only one who did it.

• 16:49Speaker 05

  Right. So it's like,

• 16:50Speaker 06

  And it all showed up.

• 16:52Speaker 05

  It's just, yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 06

  Everything, no, go ahead, please. No, it's, I'm sorry. I mean, it's frustrating, because as you point out, the Europeans already are doing what we, what we need them to do. And they're right. They need to pony up more into defense. But it's not like they've had a free ride. And I'll give you one example. You know, we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where do we support that effort from in a big chunk? From Germany? Yeah. All the casualties that came out of Afghanistan and Iraq were flown into Frankfurt, where we have a huge military hospital and their lives were saved by that. You know, there are so many bases, so many capabilities we have.

• 17:38Speaker 06

  Afghanistan, as you point out, they all showed up. You can argue, well, you know, they didn't do this part, or they didn't show up enough, or whatever, but they all showed up. Yeah. And we were in Afghanistan with NATO. So we get a lot out of NATO. This idea that, you know, we're subsidizing, we don't subsidize NATO. There is no NATO budget other than the one to keep the NATO headquarters' buildings operational. NATO is based on every nation ponying up their military in the event of a conflict. The US budget is not based on NATO. The US military budget is based on what we need throughout the world and at home, and that money is not going into the pockets of the Europeans.

• 18:23Speaker 06

  It's building our military. You know, in the 21st century, we cannot go it alone. If, you know, if you want to go it alone, then you're going to have to put a draft in the US, and you're going to have to draft 2 to 3 million Americans, none of which want to do it. None of them want to go off to war, but you're going to have to do it, and you're going to have to sink the entire federal budget, and then some, into the military. I mean, look at what that's going to do to the economy, because we can't do it alone. We can't, we've been pushing the Europeans to drag their asses out from Europe into the Pacific to help us with China, and they have.

• 19:06Speaker 06

  The Germans have deployed ships, the British, the French, they're all moving out there in coordination with the US. That's all going to go away, because at the end of the day, the Chinese aren't going to invade Europe. It's the Russians, and we're not going to stop the Russians, and then why the hell should they stop the Chinese? And we're going to be by ourselves out there, and that's not going to be a pretty picture. So we're sort of shooting ourselves in the foot. And one concern I have with this administration, and I've seen it in others, to be fair, is there's very little...

• 19:43Speaker 06

  Understanding of unintended consequences and collateral effects. You know, if, if, if we hammer South Korea as an example, because, you know, we, they, they need to do more, they need to provide more and all this kind of stuff and they're not doing it, so we're going to start pulling back from South Korea. U.S. administrations tend to look at that in isolation. They don't start looking at, well, how is, how is Japan going to look at this? What's the impact on our ability to sustain combat operations in the Western Pacific without South Korea? And they don't look at all these things like, you know, when you talk about Greenland, we want Greenland.

• 20:27Speaker 06

  They, they don't see what it does to other allies throughout the world who look at this and say, you know, you guys are really out of control. You can't be trusted. So they, they don't see what the, the third level of effect is going to be. They, they look at it in isolation and that's going to be problematic.

• 20:46Speaker 05

  Yeah. You mentioned before, before we popped off, before we started recording about a leaked Pentagon document about the, that the U.S. wouldn't send troops if Russia invaded the rest of Europe.

• 21:01Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't remember, one of the, the major news sources came up with this. I can't remember if it was AP or the New York Times, whoever it was. But there's a Pentagon document apparently circulating, leading the discussion of if the Russians attack Europe, what is the U.S. response? By treaty, the Europeans would flip whatever it is, Article Five, and the U.S. would have to send troops in to help defend Western Europe or Eastern now, whatever, all of Europe. Uh, and, and this, this document is saying, we are not going to send troops or anything.

• 21:40Speaker 05

  No hardware, nothing.

• 21:42Speaker 06

  Nothing. The, uh, Europe will still fall under the nuclear umbrella.

• 21:47Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 21:48Speaker 06

  Uh, but, but okay, what is that? What does that mean? We're going to nuke Russia?

• 21:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 21:51Speaker 06

  And no, that's not gonna, it's a, it's a, it's a bullshit piece of pablum to make everybody go, no, no, we're still, we're still there for you. That's not gonna do anything. Uh, a- and so we're basically going to reneg on our treaty agreements, which is not a surprise, given that we reneged on every other agreement we have made. Uh, and leave the Europeans hanging. That, that in itself will embolden the Russians. Uh, because you know, there's, there's Russian officials coming back and forth to the US nowadays. Uh, and they're discussing things. I'm sure the Russians will raise it and, and somebody will say, well, you know, we're not going to do this. We're going to do that or whatever. And that emboldens the Russians because the next step will be the Baltic States.

• 22:35Speaker 06

  NATO members who will trigger Article Five will say, man, we're not going to do anything for you. Uh, and, and you can tell the rest of the European countries believe we are not going to be there for them. Because I just read an article that Germany has deployed German combat troops in Lithuania. For the first time outside of Germany, uh, except for, uh, Afghanistan, nine 11, they're permanently stationed German troops there. Uh, so the, the rest of Europe saying, you know what? You, the US is unreliable. The Poles, the Poles are talking about nuclear weapons.

• 23:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 06

  We're going to have nuclear proliferation up the wazoo because the, the, the French, uh, and the British nuclear arsenals are not going to be enough. Uh, so other countries are going to start getting nuclear weapons.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  If you're Poland, why wouldn't you?

• 23:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. Uh, it's, it's, you, you could see Poland, who is building up the strongest military in Europe, uh, is getting extremely concerned, uh, and has no faith in, in the US being there to deter a Russian, uh, attack.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  Yikes.

• 23:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, we're entering an extremely dangerous period of time. Uh, thi- this is what provokes nations into making mistakes. Uh, or taking risks that otherwise they shouldn't be taking and, and kicking off a bigger global conflict.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 06

  And we're kind of stupid to think that, well, if that all blows up, we're fine here between our two oceans and we just sit back. Uh, it ain't gonna happen. It, it'll eventually come to bite us in the ass.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  What's interesting is though, like, we really have no problem moving, uh, equipment and, and, uh, men and, you know, six B two spirits over to Diego Garcia to like, save a rattle for Iran.

• 24:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 05

  Uh, which I'm not saying Iran's not a problem, right? We've discussed Iran on this channel a lot and like, I get it. They, the proxies are, you know, need to be, you know, stopped and stuff like that. Israel's done a good job of that, but I kind of feels, and this is a layman speaking, that obviously Iran should not be a nuclear power. That I, I feel like they're probably doing this to try and get them to the negotiation table and hopefully it works. But I don't know if we should be taking really our Ps and Qs from like, Israel. Cause we all know Israel wants to bomb the shit out of Iran. It's what they've wanted to do for a longest time and I understand why they want to.

• 25:11Speaker 06

  Well, well, Israel wants us to bomb the shit out of Iran.

• 25:14Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, uh, yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 06

  They, they can, they can do limited strikes, but to take out the, the Iranian infrastructure, that takes a sustained air campaign, which the Israelis cannot sustain. Guess who can? And, and, and, and that's the big problem. Uh, yeah, I mean, look, the, the, the Iranian regime, uh, is, is far from, uh, one of my favorite things, but, but, but here's the thing. And it's, it's, it's one thing, a lot of news media is not covering. Yes, the Iranians, uh, basically turned down the US offer to negotiate.

• 25:54Speaker 06

  But they didn't, a lot of news media doesn't tell you why. The Iranian response was, "We can't trust you. We had an agreement." Yeah. And you walked away from it. And now you're in the process of walking away from any other agreement. Why should we believe that you're serious this time? Yeah. Uh, so it's, it's not that, that Iran is, is being recalcitrant and fanatical. Iran is, is, is saying, "Look, this is our experience. This is what we, this is the world we live in. Not your world where you like, oh, you know, we're good, we're kind, we do this. No, we're in a world where you go back on every agreement that you've made. And even if we reach an agreement under this administration, there's no, there's nothing saying

• 26:38Speaker 06

  that the next administration is going to change it because the precedence has been set. During the Cold War, whether you had Democratic or Republican administrations, the goal was the same. You had differences in how you applied it, but we had a consistent policy. And it was a policy of containment that was developed by Truman, the Democrats. And everybody kind of, so, you know, the idea was, "We're going to contain, and this is how, now we'll put more pressure, we'll put less pressure, we'll do economic, we'll do military," whatever it was, but it was a consistent policy. We don't have that anymore. We flip 180 degrees. Uh, and we flip on our own. It's like, look at the, the tariff war with Canada and Mexico. We had the North American Free Trade Agreement.

• 27:22Speaker 06

  Trump came in, in his first administration, said, "This is a crappy, uh, agreement. I'm going to renegotiate." He renegotiated, came back and said, "This is the greatest agreement ever reached." And that's the agreement he's violating now and saying it's a piece of crap. Yeah. The, we're slapping tariffs that we shouldn't be slapping on these people. So everybody is saying, "There's no point going to the negotiating table with the United States." Because tomorrow, you can, you can switch.

• 27:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 06

  Your, your point of view and it's totally different. And today, we can agree that we will limit the number of missiles and reactors, whatever it is. And tomorrow you'll say, ah, no, we're not, we're not happy with that.

• 28:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 06

  So, so, so we shot ourselves in the foot if we are, we're genuinely interested in, in reaching an agreement with the Iranians. Uh, the big question mark is, is it really just a pressure, uh, point to send all these, these, uh, equipment into the area or are we serious? Uh, I'm not a military expert, but I, I tell you, my concern is, uh, the C-17s that were flying out of South Korea. My understanding is in South Korea, there are, uh, a number of bus, bunker buster bombs designed to take out the North Korean nuclear program. And I wonder if shifting those C-17s, they go, see, they're bringing in bunker busters

• 28:47Speaker 06

  because they're serious about doing a strike in Iran. I have no information.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:51Speaker 06

  Uh, to that effect, but you know, that's, that's a serious concern. Are, are they pressuring it or are they, even if they're pressuring it, are they on a hair trigger, uh, to say, well, as soon as they say no, off we go. Without consideration, what that is going to do to the rest of the region. Cause this is not going to be a, we bomb the Iranian nuclear program, we take it out and we go home.

• 29:15Speaker 05

  Everything's changed, everything's fixed, right?

• 29:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, my God, everything is gonna turn into a shit show.

• 29:22Speaker 05

  Well, according to, uh, Charles Lister, uh, talking about that, um, he spoke to somebody in the US military, active, uh, and told them in, at the end of February, that the best we could do is set it back three months and that's us.

• 29:36Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:37Speaker 05

  Cause they're so deep, they're, you know, their facilities are already so deep that our biggest bunker busters can't reach it. Uh, which, you know, what does that do?

• 29:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's, it's, and probably a hundred percent correct. Uh, I mean, it, you know, it's, it's not like. The world doesn't know what our capabilities are.

• 29:55Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 29:55Speaker 06

  We've demonstrated them time and time again. And a bunker buster can go only so deep. And, you know, they tell you, whatever it is, 5,000 feet under a mountain. And so what are the Iranians going to do? We'll go 6,000 feet.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:09Speaker 06

  You know, it's, it's stuff like that. They, they, they spread the program out throughout the country. So it's not one target, two targets. You know, the Israelis had great success with the Syrian and Iraqi programs. Cause they went after one target in each one. We're going to have to go over 100, 120, 150 different targets. That is, you know, six B2 are not going to do it.

• 30:34Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:35Speaker 06

  That is a sustained campaign for weeks, if not months. And as you point out, the end result is, okay, we, we push it back three months and give you the reason to speed up your program.

• 30:48Speaker 05

  Right. Right. Cause at the end of the day, are we willing to send in a quarter million troops to take over Iran?

• 30:56Speaker 06

  Oh God, no.

• 30:57Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 30:58Speaker 06

  Oh my God.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:59Speaker 06

  No. And, and that's, I mean, that's, that's, you send in the entire US military.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 06

  What is it? 450,000 army, 150,000 Marines and then, you know, Navy Air Force. That's, that's a serious war when the Iranians will pony, and the military is not powerful or potent. But they'll pony up 2 million people.

• 31:19Speaker 05

  Right.

• 31:20Speaker 06

  And, and, and, you know, you've got insurgencies, you've got wave attacks, you've got all this kind of stuff. And it's going to suck resources, it's going to suck lives. To what end?

• 31:29Speaker 05

  Right. And God knows like what, you know, another occupation would look like.

• 31:34Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 31:35Speaker 05

  How it would change the region.

• 31:37Speaker 06

  Like that went really well for Afghanistan and Iraq. We're really good at that.

• 31:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I really like that. We're really seeing the ROI on that, uh, come to fruition. Um, more about like the, us losing like our international credibility, essentially. Um, you know, we always talk about China and like, there was a big talk about pivoting to China, pivoting to China. And said, calm is just like, that's never going to happen. Uh, we want all the money and the bombs and, uh, It doesn't seem like we're pivoting to China, frankly, because like we're moving a carrier group that was in the Pacific to the Middle East now, should be there in a couple of weeks that to supplement the one that we already have there. We're moving C17s and equipment

• 32:21Speaker 05

  and assets to from South Korea to Bahrain, is it? I think, I think it was Bahrain and probably Diego's or C.

• 32:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, both. Yeah.

• 32:31Speaker 05

  So I made a, I made a snarky comment on Twitter the other day where like if you pivot hard enough to the Pacific, you end up back in the Middle East.

• 32:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 05

  And it kind of seems like exactly what's going on.

• 32:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, we, we can't let go. And part of the, we can't let go is because our relationship with Israel and, and Israel's need for us to support their aims in the Middle East. It's hard for us to do it all. It's, it's just, it's a, it's a matter of fact, we, the resources that would take, I remember when I was, when I was growing up, the US military always had, their plan was the ability to fight a two-front war.

• 33:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:17Speaker 06

  And then it became a war and a half, and then became two insurgencies. You know, part of it is, it, it costs horrendous amounts of money and resources to do that. And if we're going to fight a war with Iran and pivot to China at the same time, we just do, unless, I don't know, we really got to go on to a wartime footing, which I don't think the American people or American industry would like that. But, but, you know, part of the problem is, and, and you could see it in our discussion, we have reduced ourselves to a military solution for every problem.

• 33:59Speaker 06

  Going pivoting to China is doesn't mean we've got to send 300 F-35s and 10 carrier battle groups to China.

• 34:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 06

  There's a lot of other things we do. And I'll give you an example. There was an article I read like a couple of years ago. And they were interviewing, there was a diplomatic economic meeting in Asia. And they were.

• 34:27Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ashkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table.

• 35:12Speaker 07

  Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  What's up, everybody? It's Bretzky. It always sounds like a good idea, get the whole family together for the holidays. But if your family's anything like mine, by the second minute of dinner, there's a political debate going on and I just want to get the hell out of there. That's when I grab my phone and play on spinquest.com. It has all my favorite slots and table games for free with the ability to win real cash prizes. Head over to spinquest.com or download the app today.

• 35:48Speaker 02

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• 35:54Jack Murphy?

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• 36:19Speaker 06

  May be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Interviewing some of the Asian diplomats, you know, from Malaysia, Thailand, Japan, yeah, et cetera. And they made a very interesting comment. He said, you know, it used to be that when you got to these meetings and international forums and stuff, we were swamped by American diplomats. And they were, you know, getting the American point of view and, and, and pushing for these, the American agenda and all this kind of stuff. He says, now, we don't see American diplomats. Know who we see? Chinese diplomats. And they're pushing the Chinese line and we have, we have surrendered the diplomatic initiative, which was very effective, especially during the Cold War.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  We got rid of AID. We got rid of Voice of America. We've reduced the State Department. We have a much, much smaller footprint overseas, which means less influence, which means less ability to use soft power, which everybody, you know, is a derogatory term nowadays. We, we don't have the ability to shape the environment, to shape the situation that we used to be able to do just by flexing diplomatic and economic muscle. The only option now we have is we're going to blow you up.

• 37:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 06

  It's, and that's only going to hold true for a certain time and then that's going to go out the window. So we have, we have given that up. And now the only option we have is we're going to fly B2s to Diego Garcia.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. An obvious like show of force, right? Because like,

• 37:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 05

  The whole point of B2s, we talked about in the last episode is like, they're supposed to be stealth, right? We're not really, no one's supposed to know they're coming.

• 38:05Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 38:07Speaker 05

  So, and they can fly from St. Louis or Missouri to wherever they need to go across, around the globe to do what they need to do. Um, yeah. I mean, in turn, like we do a really good job, I think on this show is trying to like be analytical and stuff. Not so much me. I'm more of like a ready, fire, aim, meaning like, there's things that like, I don't agree with, right? And being non-political, like Mick does a really good job. So does Andy and stuff, but Andy's had his experiences like with the Mozart group in Ukraine and stuff like that. So hi, his stance is pretty clear, you know, in terms of, so is, so is Mick, obviously Mick's a former, you know, ground branch guy. Like, what are we talking about? So, um,

• 38:48Speaker 05

  You know, his stance is kind of clear too, but he's very good at being analytical and and as apolitical as possible. Me, not so much. Like, I think the effect Israel has on our geopolitical view in our foreign policy, I think is extremely detrimental to what we're trying to do, you know, especially if we're trying to really counter China, which I think is what we should be doing. And countering Russia because like, sure, we spent a hundred or given 150 plus billion dollars, but the Russian military is in shambles, right? Like, you would have never gotten this, and not a single American troop has died. Yeah. So there are, and so like, oh, like, the proverbial toxic relationship that we have with the Middle East, that Israel continues to,

• 39:33Speaker 05

  like, pour some gas on it. Yeah. Uh, I think is a detrimental thing to US foreign policy.

• 39:41Speaker 06

  It is. It's, it's, look, I mean, you know, the Middle East is, is the Middle East. Uh, it is, it is an area that is sucking up our attention, our time, our resources, when it shouldn't be sucking up that much. Right. I mean, you, you point out, yes, we've, we've given billions to the Ukraine. But yeah, I come from an intelligence background where I look at that and say, money's a tool. I don't come from the private sector and money is the end all be all. Money is a tool. Right. And that tool is destroying the Russian military. One chess piece off the board, something we don't have to worry about. Now, we walk away from Ukraine, we will have to worry about the Russian military because they will rebuild.

• 40:25Speaker 06

  But it's, it's, it's just costing us dollars. Yeah. It's not costing us lives. It's not costing us tanks and aircraft and stuff. It is, a, a logical administration would say, you know what? We're going to pivot to China, pivot to the Pacific, and in cooperation with Europe, we'll let Europe take the lead in Europe and counter the Russians. We'll help you. We'll be there, but you guys take the lead. We'll be behind you. And we'll take the lead in the Pacific, and you'll be behind us in the Pacific. And it, and it works well. But what we're saying is, forget Europe.

• 40:59Speaker 06

  Forget the Pacific and China. Let's focus on the Middle East. I'm like, why?

• 41:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 06

  What is that gonna do to us?

• 41:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's because that's what we know, right? For the last twenty five years.

• 41:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 05

  I mean, you look at like even like China's capability. In terms of just obviously naval and shipbuilding capabilities are insane in China. But they're like advanced, like air-to-air missiles are as good as ours now, right? We used to have a huge lead on them and we used to worry about development. And now it's kind of like we're slapping things together, like we're putting SM6s, like the naval missiles on F-18s and stuff. And that's good, I guess, as like a Band-Aid. And, you know, we've had our longer range AMRAAM in development for the last four or five years. We still haven't seen one strapped underneath anything or inside of a bay of F-22.

• 41:53Speaker 05

  So like, these are real issues where China is producing these PL-15s that are like every, they're everywhere. You see them on every airplane. You know, to think that that they're not close to parity with us is crazy. Yeah, sure, they have less, they don't have as many aircraft carriers, but aircraft carriers are just big fucking targets.

• 42:13Speaker 06

  They'll have, look, the Chinese have problems. Every military has problems. We saw that with the Russians, that we assumed the Russians were this, you know, huge juggernaut. It fell apart.

• 42:24Speaker 06

  But you can't

• 42:27Speaker 06

  assume that's gonna be the case all the time.

• 42:29Speaker 05

  Right.

• 42:29Speaker 06

  And, and the Chinese are very good. And, and, and I I tell you what's frustrating, I don't, I don't get a sense that, that we have

• 42:40Speaker 06

  a real strategy, overarching strategy on how we are going to meet the threat. And I don't mean fight the war. I'm sure they got a, they got a strategy to fight the war. But how do we compete? As, you know, an example, they just announced this, what is it? The, the F-47, whatever it is?

• 42:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, the new stealth fighter.

• 43:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, we can't afford it.

• 43:02Speaker 05

  Right.

• 43:03Speaker 06

  It's, it's, it's great between that, the, the, the new ballistic missile submarines, the ICBMs we want to build, also, there's no money.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  Right.

• 43:14Speaker 06

  We could give, we could take the entire federal budget and give it to, to the Pentagon and, and the response is, it's not enough. And we give them the entire GDP and everybody's salary, not enough. When you're spending 300 and it's going to be more million dollars per aircraft.

• 43:35Speaker 05

  That's for the NGAD.

• 43:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's for the NGAD. Yeah, that then you got the Navy's version coming up. I mean, how, you know, a ballistic missile sub is what 10 billion dollars now?

• 43:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:46Speaker 06

  You can't, we've got to look and say, how can we fix this problem? Because we're going to wake up one morning and that NGAD, we're going to have two. That's all we can afford.

• 43:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 06

  And, and, and I just, I don't think we've got us, we've got a strategy on how we deal with Chinese manufacturing industrial capability. The fact that, that, that our military capability to, to build is declining. Our shipbuilding is, is in serious, has serious problems. We're not, I mean, we, this is down the weeds, but we don't have enough welders to do the welding on submarines, which is critical.

• 44:30Speaker 06

  I, I just don't think we're addressing the, the real problems. We're looking at it's buy, buy, buy.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 06

  Oh, the Chinese have this, that we need 10 of those.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  Right.

• 44:38Speaker 06

  No, you need to come up with something that's affordable and realistic and how to counter them. And again, it gets, it gets back to my point. That's why you have allies.

• 44:49Speaker 06

  That's why you look at allies and say, what, what can you pony up in this strategy for us? The, the South Koreans and the, and the Japanese have amazing technology. Do you think that maybe we could look to them and say, hey, can you, can you pick up this side of the slack for us?

• 45:09Speaker 05

  Right.

• 45:09Speaker 06

  Now, we don't want to do it because it's all about money. And, and if we let the Chinese, I mean, the Japanese produce this or South Korean, well, somebody in the United States doesn't make money. But I'm not looking at it for the money angle. I'm looking at it for the national security angle. And there's no reason we can't sit there and say, uh, let's come up with a joint manufacturing capability that enhances what we have, uh, and, and gives us the ability to, to match the Chinese.

• 45:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, it, that would make sense.

• 45:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, but sense is not on the, on the dock.

• 45:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's just, it's kind of, it's, I mean, I guess it's a little scary and a little worrying. Where we clearly have a rival, right? And the goal should be to out technology that rival, right? And make sure we're at the position where we can dictate terms if we need to. And it seems more and more that that's not the case. Cause you know, yeah, Russia, we talked about Russia's army and their military and it kind of almost completely collapsed. But they didn't spend the amount of money that China spends, right? Like they spent, I think it was 70 billion a year, like, which is a lot of money, but China's spending, you know, upwards of 500 billion. And that parity is real, that, you know, that purchasing parity thing is absolutely real.

• 46:27Speaker 05

  Like they're getting a lot more for their money.

• 46:31Speaker 05

  And so I don't know what we're doing really, because I don't think we need 12 aircraft carriers anymore. Right? Maybe four to project our power in the Middle East where we know they won't get knocked, they won't get shot out of the, out of the water.

• 46:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, you know, I have to ask myself that question because I'm actually, I'm rereading

• 46:50Speaker 06

  a great trilogy on, on the US, Japan naval war in the Pacific in World War II. And you can see, you can see the similarity at the lead up to the war. Everything was about battleships, battleships, battleships, battleships. They were just incredible. And, and in, in one morning in Pearl Harbor, that was it. Done. Battleship's a piece of shit. Does, it can't survive. And the aircraft carrier reigns supreme. And I wondered to myself, are we at that, at that point where carriers, carriers, carriers?

• 47:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 06

  And it, it doesn't do it. It's not what it used to be. As, as the Chinese developed these long range area denial weapons, where, you know, you can't get your aircraft carrier close enough to launch your planes to strike China for fear that Chinese missiles are going to sink your aircraft carrier.

• 47:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:42Speaker 06

  But we've got generations of naval officers who grew up with aircraft carriers. And maybe you're right, maybe 11 or 12, we don't need them anymore.

• 47:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 06

  Maybe that's not the weapon to take into the Pacific.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  Like you said, I think it's submarines, right? Just take that money, you're going to, the 15 billion, you're going to spend or 20 billion, you're going to spend on an aircraft carrier and put it into submarines.

• 48:03Speaker 06

  Yeah. You know, it's, it's.

• 48:08Speaker 06

  I firmly believe that differing views, contrarian views are critically important in decision making. Because if you've got group think and everybody thinks the same way, you're gonna come up with the same solution. And if you have people who disagree with you, it forces you to, A, to think and say, are they right? And am I wrong? I do need to look at what they're pointing out and maybe make allowances. And I think we, as a nation, or at least in administrations, as governments, as military, we have group think. This is what we believe in. This is how it's gotta go. And those people who think differently are

• 48:52Speaker 06

  just shunted. I said, remember, if, I don't even remember, but before World War II, there was an army officer named Billy Mitchell, who was advocating, was a general officer, advocating air power. And he demonstrated what long-range bombers could do to a battleship. And he took the old World War I German battleships that we had taken and sank them. And he showed that, you know, your battleships just aren't cut out for modern warfare, the result of which he was court martialed. Subordination. Yeah. And, you know, and that was another example

• 49:34Speaker 06

  of group think. You had, you had group think where it's the battleship, this is supreme. You know, it was group think when, again, I don't want to hark on the same thing, but Pearl Harbor came and there was group think, you know, Japanese pilots suck, Japanese aircraft are poor copies, they're no good. And Pearl Harbor happened, they realized Japanese carrier pilots were the best in the world. And the Japanese Zero was the best carrier-based fighter in the world. And that group think had discounted that. And I wonder if we're into that group think where it is, it's the aircraft carrier, this is how we're gonna deal with it. And, you know, you want to say, listen to people who disagree, even if the people who disagree with you are wrong.

• 50:19Speaker 06

  Listen to what they say, there may be issue, there may be points that are important to listen to. They may be right. It'll make you think, and you have to defend yourself. Because if you got people say, no, the aircraft carrier, you gotta sit down and think, well, does it?

• 50:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:33Speaker 06

  Is it the right thing? And it forces you to come out to it. And I think we're on a, on the, I don't know. It's not necessarily the wrong course in the Pacific, but we are on a course that is not going to guarantee us success in the Pacific. We may, we may get it, you know, and I'm jumping all over the place.

• 50:54Speaker 05

  That's all right.

• 50:55Speaker 06

  But, but I want to point out, you made, you used a very interesting word, which I a hundred percent agree with. You say, we have a rival in China. And too often, we run around saying China's a threat. No, it's not. China is not going to invade us. And China's not going to, not yet, maybe in a hundred years. But they are our rival and the Chinese clearly have a strategy. And that is to become the preeminent power in the Western Pacific, in Eastern Asia. They don't care at this stage, what we do in the Eastern Pacific, but they want to be able to be dominant in the Western Pacific. They don't have the ability yet to project significant power beyond that.

• 51:40Speaker 06

  Whereas we do. They want to get there, but they're not there yet. But they're doing it step by step. And we are stepping out of that. As evidenced by Japan, South Korea, talking to China about tariff, coordinated tariff response. And allowing the Chinese to have that, to gain that dominance in, in Western Pacific, Eastern Asia.

• 52:04Speaker 05

  That is scary, like actually like trying to like them, if it's real, like coordinating with South Korea and Japan. Cause they are going to have that economic influence on them, right? And part of our power, sure, we have nice hairy, you know, weapon systems and stuff like that that are scary. But it's economic power is how we've like thrown our weight around for, since World War Two.

• 52:31Speaker 06

  Yes, and it is. It is that economic power which the Chinese have latched on to. It's gotta be, yes, you have to back it up with significant military power. But the lead on this is, is the economic power, the fact that everybody uses the dollar, that everybody has to use a swift system to move their dollars around. And that's what allows economic embargoes. We just flipped the switch. You can't use it anymore.

• 52:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:54Speaker 06

  And entire nations are screwed over. You start to lose that, and you lose a significant amount of influence and power and weight. And military power is not going to take that place. We can't run around the world beating everybody up. Can't do it.

• 53:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 06

  And I'll give you an example. Growing up during the Cold War,

• 53:20Speaker 06

  American cultural influence dominated everything. Everybody wanted to be American. Everybody wanted to wear Levi's, listen to rock and roll, watch American televisions. You know, that's, people kind of discounted, but that was amazing because you had, you had an entire world that willingly came into the American camp. And, and the, and the other part of the world that was in the Soviet camp wanted to come in. I can't tell you how many East Europeans, Russians you talked to in the diplomatic circus. And they're like, oh, you know, can you get some blue jeans? Oh, what about the latest Rolling Stone album? It was that, that kind of soft power influence was amazing. What it did to people, that's gone.

• 54:06Speaker 06

  We are now, we're now viewed, which is stunning to me, as, as the assholes on the, on the block.

• 54:15Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm a big hockey fan, right? And that Four Nations was going on about a month ago. And people, and there was, the beginning games were in Montreal, right? So when they played, they played both anthems. When the United States anthem, they were booing.

• 54:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 05

  If you're Canadian, or even if you're American, you can kind of understand why they'd be booing. Right? And you have seen like a big switch between their Liberal Party and their more Conservative Party that was more Trump-esque. The polls have footfall completely, right? So it's not hard for people to look at the United States more and more, which is crazy, that Canada has more of a threat than anything else. And it's insane to think of that. Like, you want a better deal with Canada, you want a lesser trade deficit, maybe number one, make some more shit in the United States that's affordable across the world to do that?

• 55:15Speaker 05

  Or number two, I don't know, you shouldn't be picking fights with allies. It's just real simple.

• 55:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. Again, we're going to jumble over the place.

• 55:27Speaker 05

  Welcome to my brain.

• 55:28Speaker 06

  Yeah. It is stunning for me to find America.

• 55:33Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 55:58Speaker 07

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 56:30Speaker 00

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• 57:31Speaker 06

  On the other side now, where people boo us.

• 57:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 06

  And people look at us. And it is, I think, a lack of understanding that governments and peoples are responsible for these deficit stuff. You know, the reason we have a deficit is we want to buy stuff from Canada.

• 57:53Speaker 05

  Right.

• 57:54Speaker 06

  And why do they manufacture overseas? Because American companies move their production overseas because it's cheaper and it increases their profits.

• 58:02Speaker 05

  Right.

• 58:03Speaker 06

  Not because of government policies. I mean, government policies are driven by the private sector saying, "We want bigger profits, so we want to move our car factory down to Mexico because we're paying them," whatever it is, "400 bucks a month and we don't have to deal with the labor laws we have here." You can't, unless you're going to institute a dictatorship, you can't force American companies to come back.

• 58:25Speaker 05

  Right.

• 58:27Speaker 06

  And you can't go out and beat up the Canadians who are providing something that we want. It's like the Canadians showed up and say, you need to buy all your lumber from us.

• 58:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 06

  Now, we're like, hey, we like your lumber and we like the price and we're gonna buy it. It's the same thing. I was, I was listening to some guy who's very knowledgeable in the oil industry. And he said, yes, we, we import Canadian oil. Says, but we don't use it. We don't consume it. It says, American companies bring Canadian oil in and turn it around, refine it and sell it to other countries. They make profits from that. It's not that we're, you know, that that oil comes in and Americans consume it. It doesn't even, it doesn't even hit the pump here. It goes someplace else. It's, you know, it's just, it's, it's we're fighting fights that we don't have to fight.

• 59:18Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 59:18Speaker 06

  And not paying attention to the fights we need to be fighting.

• 59:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, Louis, I mean, this is freaking awesome. I could talk to you all day.

• 59:28Speaker 05

  Let's do this again for sure.

• 59:30Speaker 06

  Sure, happy to.

• 59:31Speaker 05

  And we'd love to have you back on the Team House as well. Again, if you guys want to hear about Louis's, uh, over 27 year career in the CIA, check out episode 254 on the Team House. The link is in the description there.

• 59:46Speaker 05

  Have I forgot to mention anything? I mean, we've hit, we've hit all the spots, but.

• 59:49Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, there's a thousand things and we'll never cover it. And there's probably four more things that have just occurred.

• 59:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 06

  But next time we can sit down and, and discuss how the invasion of Greenland went.

• 1:00:00Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, exactly.

• 1:00:02Speaker 06

  How the US performed.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  Doing a, uh, after action, uh, review.

• 1:00:06Speaker 06

  After action.

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  Yeah. Um, of course, anything, if you guys want to find Louis, the links are in the description. All the links for the rest of the guys are in the description as well. And the best way to help support the show, you get ad free audio, ad free video, early access is patreon.com slash the Team House. Louis Rita, thanks, man. Really appreciate it.

• 1:00:26Speaker 06

  Hey, my pleasure. You have a good day.

• 1:00:28Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show if you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this. You can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com/the Team House. And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of The Team House ad-free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast Eyes On with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, McMulroy. That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad-free. And you support the channel and the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what has

• 1:01:08Jack Murphy?

  helped this company, this small business survive, especially during our early years. And you are what continues to help this thing going even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page. And there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers, and we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month, we will mail you this patch as well. So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop.

• 1:01:49Jack Murphy?

  And additionally, they got t-shirts up there, water bottles, a tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and check them out and support the show.

• 1:02:01Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

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  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated. He made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

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  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

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  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:06:37Speaker 07

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you are not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a Point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you are not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a Point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

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