1,500 Days | EP 8 | Season 3

A secret recording turned the 22-day long trial upside down. By the time the jury rendered their verdict, a key player in the case was absent from the courtroom. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. For more Burden of Guilt, follow us on Instagram @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 2:54Nancy Glass?

  District Attorney Matt Carzen became a central figure in the prosecution of Kenny Hamp. He's the one who signed off on Kenny's arrest warrant. But after looking into the case further, he called for those charges to be dropped. We look to prosecute when the facts and the law tell us it's appropriate to do so. So when that ceased to be the case, it was dismissed. DA Carzen dropped those charges in the summer of 2020. Afterwards, the DA met with Steve and his second wife, Christine. I told them we were going to dismiss the case. I pointed out the problems with the case, the vulnerabilities, the applicable standards involved, the burden of proof. So we had that conversation.

• 3:38Nancy Glass?

  I was trying to be diplomatic and polite.

• 3:42Nancy Glass?

  And then I found out later that they had recorded it without telling me. And I think what offended me most is, if you want to record the conversation, just tell me you're doing it. And if for any reason I'm uncomfortable with it, at least give me the opportunity to say I'm not comfortable with it. When that secret recording was played back in court, things got very uncomfortable for the district attorney. That whole thing was a charade. They were using me or attempting to use me as a pawn.

• 4:11Nancy Glass?

  I was a tool to be used and manipulated to get what he wanted.

• 4:23Nancy Glass?

  I'm Nancy Glass, and this is season three, A Burden of Guilt. Episode 8, 1,500 Days.

• 4:36Nancy Glass?

  During the months he worked on the case against Kenny, District Attorney Matt Carzen had a lot of interactions with Steve. There was something very cold and detached about his demeanor, his zeal for an aggressive prosecution of Mr. Hamp that was really concerning for me. I remember he would say things that were just completely out of line a couple of times. One example was a meeting he had with Steve's twin boys. Prior to that meeting, the DA said he gave Steve one simple rule. This is just a meet and greet. We're not talking about the case. We'll talk about how are you? What do you like to do? How's school going?

• 5:20Nancy Glass?

  Just trying to develop some rapport with the kids. But when their meeting began, the first thing Steve said to the boys was, Tell Mr. Carzen what Mr. Hamp did to you.

• 5:34Nancy Glass?

  We had specifically told him that was not the purpose of the meeting. So I found that very strange. I think the first moment I realized that this was going to be unlike any experience I'd ever had as a prosecutor was when he made the comment about the campaign contribution. DA Carzen said Steve offered to make a contribution to his reelection campaign if Steve prosecuted Kenny for a felony. He laughed immediately. It was a joke, but it made me very uncomfortable. But why make a joke about something like that? It was one of many red flags. When it really tipped over the edge for me was when the forensic interview came back and I watched the kids specifically referred to their father telling them

• 6:20Nancy Glass?

  that certain things had happened and that Mr. Hamp had done them.

• 6:24Nancy Glass?

  That's beyond a red flag. That's just confirmation of parental coaching. That's a serious problem. The DA was also troubled by a question from Steve's wife, Christine. She told me throughout this entire process with the boys, I've been making detailed notes, like a log of everything they said and my observations of their behaviors. And should she destroy that? And I remember telling her, I can't give you legal advice. I'm a prosecutor. I'm not your lawyer. But if you're asking the elected district attorney responsible for criminal prosecutions if you should destroy what you have reason to believe may be discoverable and relevant evidence, absolutely not. Do not destroy that, is what I told her.

• 7:10Nancy Glass?

  DA Carzen testified about all of this in the civil trial Cyndi and Kenny brought against Steve and Christine. And after hearing it, Cyndi was torn.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  I walked out of there with a lot of mixed feelings. I'm like, wow, why couldn't you say this stuff four years ago? That was my whole thing is, why did you wait so long?

• 7:30Nancy Glass?

  Cyndi felt like it was a double-edged sword, and that sword was about to cut again. Onto cross-examination. DA Carzen was asked about that meeting he had with Steve and Christine, the one right after he dropped the charges against Kenny.

• 7:47Nancy Glass?

  I did have a meeting with him and Christine. I told them we were going to dismiss the case. And they asked a lot of questions about why and what about this? And what about that? And I answered all their questions. I did not tell them, I think you are coaching your children to frame Kenny Hamp. You know, there was no need for me to say that to him. But at that meeting, DA Carzen said he bullet-pointed all the problems with the case.

• 8:16Nancy Glass?

  So we had that conversation. I was trying to be diplomatic and polite. And then I found out later that they had recorded it without telling me.

• 8:26Nancy Glass?

  It wasn't illegal for them to record me. In some states, it would have been. It wasn't here in Colorado. But I was offended.

• 8:36Nancy Glass?

  Three years later, the contents of that recording found their way into the case Kenny and Cyndi filed against Steve. Here's Kenny's attorney, Chris Decker.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  This surreptitious tape recording suddenly showed up a month or so before trial.

• 8:54Speaker 06

  And Christine testified that she just, on her own, decided to audiotape that on her phone. And she did so without the knowledge of Steve.

• 9:07Nancy Glass?

  We'll hear about Christine's testimony later. But first, let's talk about what was said on that tape.

• 9:14Speaker 06

  When Matt Carzen brought them in to explain that he was going to dismiss this case, he explained a lot of that to them. And he testified that he explained those things to him.

• 9:28Nancy Glass?

  And then Christine's lawyer played another part of that secret recording. Listen closely to what the DA says.

• 9:37Speaker 05

  I have no doubt those children were victimized criminally by Kenny Hamp and Doris Cyndi. None. In my 25 years of experience, everything tells me that's true.

• 9:53Nancy Glass?

  When this bombshell recording was played during the trial, several of the jurors looked confused.

• 9:59Speaker 06

  That was a powerful statement. And I remember asking Matt Carzen to explain that.

• 10:07Nancy Glass?

  We had a voice actor read the DA's testimony from court transcripts.

• 10:13Speaker 06

  I was trying to tell them what I knew they needed to hear, but not insult them unnecessarily. Essentially, yeah, appease their emotional state.

• 10:23Nancy Glass?

  I didn't want to chastise them and say, this is your fault. It was an effort by Matt Carzen to make them feel good about the bad news that they were getting, that this case was not going to be pursued criminally. I was maybe not explaining some of the statements I was making as thoroughly as I might have, because a broader explanation would not have been what they wanted to hear.

• 10:48Nancy Glass?

  I regretted me trying to be as diplomatic as I was. I should have been more blunt in hindsight. It turns out, this secret recording that Steve's legal team played had another problem. This tape recording was spliced, so there were two recordings. The DA testified that when he first listened to this recording, he noticed that a section of their conversation was missing. I was starting to list the specific reasons that I was dismissing the case as they related to Steve's interactions with me and how he conducted himself through the course of the prosecution. It was like a laundry list of this problem and that problem, and then you said this, or the boy said that. That part was not on the recording.

• 11:34Nancy Glass?

  In other words, the section of the recording that was missing did not help Steve and Christine's case. If you're going to record a conversation, don't record it and then delete the parts that are unhelpful. It was a manipulation, is what I remember thinking, for a particular purpose that has to do with his relationship with his ex-wife. That was my sense of it. When you look at the totality of all of the evidence that was created around this false narrative, it was not surprising that that particular statement was eliminated.

• 12:18Nancy Glass?

  Much like some of the evidence, DA Carzen testified that the children had been manipulated. I think the children were definitely influenced by the interactions with Steve, because they said they were. I don't know if that means they were coached, or they were inadvertently influenced. On that secretly recorded conversation, Steve also brought up that joke about offering to make a campaign contribution to the DA. It was more along the lines of, apparently I said something that you interpreted a certain way, and I hope you know I would never have meant to do that. Here's what Steve said on that tape.

• 12:57Speaker 05

  I don't give money to elected officials. I'd be happy to give you 10 years of tax records. We donate generously to children's causes, but I don't get involved in local politics.

• 13:08Nancy Glass?

  The DA was asked about that statement by Steve. I felt like he meant it, but I felt like he was saying it sort of as a matter of record, like he needed to say it out loud. Sincere, but scripted, if that makes sense.

• 13:24Nancy Glass?

  There was one other moment from the recording that stuck out to Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker. Matt Carzen was struggling to remember the two boys' names. So Steve was wanting to clarify which of the two children Matt Carzen was talking about. We've bleeped out the boy's name, but listen to how Steve described his son, who he said was assaulted.

• 13:49Speaker 05

  This is the one who got ass raped.

• 13:54Nancy Glass?

  He used that phrase, "ass raped", in a way that was absolutely horrific to me and remarkable to everyone who's listened to it. That's not the way a parent talks about a child who's been victimized.

• 14:11Nancy Glass?

  We spoke with DA Carzen about Steve's tone on that recording. Here's what he said. It was certainly unusual. I mean, this is the father of a boy who's supposedly been raped by his stepfather. But the way he talked about it had that level of detachment, like he was talking flippantly about something that happened to somebody else, not like he was talking about his own child. And it was very flat. That's the best way I can put it.

• 14:41Nancy Glass?

  After weeks of testimony in the trial, they called witness 11, Steve's second wife Christine. She's the one who secretly recorded that conversation at DA Carzen's office. And when Christine took the stand, she dropped another bombshell. This one caused gasps in the courtroom. Voice actors will read from the court transcripts. Are you still married?

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Steve and I are separated right now.

• 15:12Nancy Glass?

  The courtroom went silent. For years, Christine stuck by Steve's side and corroborated his story. Now that they were separated, would she have a different story to tell?

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• 19:18Nancy Glass?

  Steve's second wife Christine grew up in Alabama. She's an interior designer who owns her own business in Steamboat. On the witness stand, Christine testified that she first met Steve while she was separated from her first husband. And that happened to be the same day Steve's divorce to Cindy was finalized. Voice actors will read from court transcripts.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Within three weeks, I remember feeling like I had significant feelings for Steve. I was not admitting out loud to myself, or him, or anyone, but yes, I felt in my heart that I was falling in love with Steve.

• 19:56Nancy Glass?

  By the time Christine was called to testify, Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker, picked up on something. There was a notable tension between Steve and Christine at the trial for reasons that became very clear. Christine testified that she and Steve had separated. How long have you been separated?

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Almost exactly a year.

• 20:22Nancy Glass?

  This was news to almost everyone in the courtroom. So was Christine there to support Steve? Or was she about to flip? Cindy's lawyer asked Christine about that weekend in Vegas and why no one took Steve's son to see a doctor.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  It wasn't... Obviously, it was not an emergency. We didn't feel like we needed to take him into the emergency room. I mean, at the end of the day, it's ultimately Steve's decision. He's the biological parent. So I think that that was the decision he had come up with, and that's what we did.

• 20:58Nancy Glass?

  Earlier, you heard the district attorney testify that he believes the boys were influenced by Steve. And then Cindy's lawyer asked Christine to explain something she said when she met with Detective Cypher. Here's the recording they played in court. I'm aware that we're walking a fine line of looking like we're coaching. I promise you, I just am trying to be a good mom and help him survive this.

• 21:27Nancy Glass?

  Christine testified that she did not coach the boys. Cindy's lawyer then played more from that recorded interview with the police. It begins with Steve talking about Cindy's feelings towards the children. She does love the kids. It's not a healthy love. Particularly with the boys.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  I know that she loves the boys.

• 21:50Nancy Glass?

  It's not easy to hear, but Christine said, "I don't know that she loves the boys." Cindy's lawyer questioned Christine about that.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Why were you trying to paint Cindy as a mother who didn't love her children? I was just speaking honestly about how I felt. Like I said, it was just my observation. It was my opinion. I understand it was your opinion. My question is, why were you trying to paint Cindy as a mother who didn't love her children?

• 22:23Speaker 03

  I don't think there was anything malicious or intentional. I was just speaking candidly about how I felt.

• 22:29Nancy Glass?

  It's important to note that Cindy sued Christine, but Kenny did not. Christine and my relationship was zero. Never had a single conversation with each other. But, you know, one of the sickest things that Christine did, and this came up in court. She was teaching him to throw the hatchet at my hat and a picture of me in order to think that I'm the bad guy.

• 22:52Nancy Glass?

  Christine testified that two hatchets were purchased, one for each boy, and how the alleged victim wanted to use a hat from Kenny as his target.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Do you remember later encouraging the boy to throw that hatchet at a picture of Kenny? I don't believe so. You don't remember sending an email to Kamala Hite, saying that you encouraged him to throw the hatchet at a picture of Kenny Hampham? That he had a hat and you had actually put it on a log and he threw the hatchet at it? I remember a hat. I don't remember a photo.

• 23:32Nancy Glass?

  Kenny listened to this testimony in stunned disbelief. It was so offensive to me and so hurtful that she gave him a hatchet. And she was teaching him to throw the hatchet at my hat and a picture of me. That behavior is wrong.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  That's teaching violence and hatred, and that's programming a child to hate somebody enough to destroy them.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  That's a sick mind. That's a sick person. And you know what Christine did in court when we asked her about it? She blamed it on Kamala. That was a DHS agent.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  I remember brainstorming with Kamala on how to help him physically process things. And I remember she suggested axe throwing. I remember the axes being her idea.

• 24:27Nancy Glass?

  The jury heard more of the conversation between Christine and Detective Cypher. In the recording, Christine is frustrated that the boy isn't talking about the alleged abuse to investigators.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  I'm so bummed that he hasn't said it to you or Kamala, but he is saying it to his family. He is saying it to his teachers. He is saying it to his friends. He is telling everybody that he's saying it to his cousin.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Why were you bummed that he hadn't said it to Detective Cypher or DHS caseworker Kamala Hite? I don't remember. Is it because you were wanting him to say it to a government authority to further the prosecution of Mr. Hampham? Or efforts to take away Cindy's kids from her? No, I just, no, I don't remember why I would have said that. Sorry.

• 25:17Nancy Glass?

  You heard Christine say in that conversation that the boy shared what happened with his teachers, his family, and his cousin. So let's talk about those witnesses. The boy's cousin Lauren testified earlier in the trial. She said that on the weekend after Las Vegas, she joined Steve, Christine, and the boy for brunch. At one point, Christine and Steve stepped away from the table, and then the boy shared that Kenny abused him. According to Christine's testimony, Lauren told her what the boy said.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Lauren and I went in the car and she dictated it to my phone what her conversation with [BLEEP] was. Did you record that? My phone did, yes. Where's that recording now? I don't know.

• 26:07Nancy Glass?

  Despite not having the recording, Christine stuck by her story that the boy's cousin Lauren had heard him make this accusation.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  And you said that Lauren had dictated into your phone while you were in the car with her? Yes. Are you aware of the fact that she testified? She never talked to you about what the boy told her at brunch? I am. How do you reconcile her recollection with yours? I don't know. Someone is wrong, right? Yes, I believe Lauren is.

• 26:44Nancy Glass?

  Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker, found it to be suspicious. Lauren just said, "Well, my memory's not so good, so maybe I did tell her. I don't know." But one would imagine you wouldn't forget the circumstances of hearing a little boy disclose to you that they've been sexually assaulted and whether or not you told their parents.

• 27:07Nancy Glass?

  Lauren wasn't the only witness with memory issues. The boy's gym teacher, Dave Mars, was also called to testify. Dave Mars was one of the more bizarre witnesses in this trial.

• 27:21Nancy Glass?

  This one is strange. Let me explain. Dave Mars, the boy's gym teacher, was invited to a barbecue at Steve's mother's house. Now, Dave testified he isn't close with Steve. They're more like friendly acquaintances. But he decided to go to a latest barbecue. When Dave showed up, he was left alone with the boy, who immediately told him that Kenny had abused him. A voice actor will read Dave's testimony.

• 27:50Nancy Glass?

  It was kind of like a matter-of-fact statement. Seemed to be very, I guess, straightforward. Not a whole lot of emotion attached to it. Dave later shared what the boy told him in a letter to Steve. A voice actor will read part of that letter. Out of the blue, he asked me if I knew what Kenny had done to him. I replied that I did not. He then told me that Kenny had stuck something up his [BLEEP]. He then told me that his mom might have been involved. I asked when this had happened, and he told me late at night. I left it at that and did not go any further with questions.

• 28:30Nancy Glass?

  Dave said the boy's statement took him by surprise. He testified that the boy was not crying and that his tone was very direct. And that's where Dave's memory got fuzzy. He testified that he didn't remember telling Steve, Christine, or even Steve's mother what the boy disclosed. But Dave did remember that Steve asked him to write a letter detailing what happened. Dave emailed that letter to Steve. Here's what he wrote. Here it is. I simply put what I have reported through phone calls into written form. Again, no one seems to be interested, but I also have the recording of [BLEEP] telling me it was Kenny.

• 29:13Nancy Glass?

  If anyone can use it productively, I am happy to pass it along. That didn't make sense at all. Cindy's lawyer lays it out.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  How would it be possible for you to have recorded that statement that was made out of the blue if he only disclosed it once? You would have to have known that he was going to disclose something for you to record it. Is that correct?

• 29:38Nancy Glass?

  I'm not sure.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  How else could it possibly happen?

• 29:43Nancy Glass?

  I don't have a good, I don't have a good description for that.

• 29:47Speaker 03

  Do you recall recording that conversation?

• 29:49Nancy Glass?

  I don't.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  How is that possible?

• 29:53Nancy Glass?

  I don't have a good answer for you.

• 29:57Nancy Glass?

  Here's Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker. He says he can't remember whether there was a tape and it disappeared, or there was never a tape. He just doesn't know. And again, that was very odd. All I know is that we had this very weird circumstance of this man being invited over to a barbecue and being left alone with the son. And then saying there's a outcry and a tape of it, and then that disappearing. During cross-examination, Dave said he suffered multiple concussions, which affect his memory. He testified that he has a really bad memory. But whether or not you tape-recorded a sexual assault outcry

• 30:40Nancy Glass?

  is not something I think anyone would forget. Under scrutiny, Dave's testimony was shaky. It had major inconsistencies, not to mention a missing recording. But it turns out that the letter Dave wrote had once been a powerful piece of evidence. Years earlier, a different judge relied on it to make a critical decision about Cindy's children.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Dave wrote a letter supposedly that he had some recording. And that is what the judge used to take my kids away.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  And then three years later, he says, "Oh, I don't know what I was saying about that recording. It never existed." I'm like, "This is crazy."

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• 34:39Speaker 06

  loss, joint or back pain, and constipation. Ask your doctor about Pluvicto, because every day without cancer progression is a victory. Visit Pluvicto.com to learn more.

• 34:59Nancy Glass?

  Cindy's lawyer used a PowerPoint presentation during his opening remarks. Just before he wrapped up, he went back to that PowerPoint and made a revelation about Cindy that sent visible shockwaves through the jury box. A voice actor will read from the court transcript.

• 35:18Nancy Glass?

  Since October 1st, 2019, she's gone the following number of days without meaningful parenting time. Her lawyer pointed the jury's attention to the screen in front of him. That's when five big, bold numbers flashed on the screen. 1,483 days.

• 35:41Nancy Glass?

  That was the number of days that had passed since Cindy last had any normal time with her children. That is why Cindy is in this courtroom, seeking a verdict in her favor from all of you.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  When they put the counter up of how many days it's been since I've been with my kids, I lost it. I literally lost it because I'm like, I don't want to know. I don't want that reality, you know?

• 36:10Nancy Glass?

  By the time Cindy stepped up into the witness stand, the trial had hit the three-week mark, and the counter had eclipsed 1,500 days. Kenny told me he could feel Cindy's pain.

• 36:24Nancy Glass?

  It broke my heart.

• 36:26Nancy Glass?

  There is 1,500 days. That's 1,500 days that Cindy hasn't seen her children. That's a mother losing her kids, you know? That's a mother.

• 36:39Nancy Glass?

  Cindy was one of the last to take the witness stand. A lot of her testimony centered on her former company, Wildcat, and the lawsuit she had with Steve and another former colleague, and how it felt when that litigation ended. A voice actor will read Cindy's testimony.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  It was a load off my shoulders. That lawsuit just felt like I was stuck and couldn't extract myself. And finally, I did. And it felt great. So it felt like I was moving on. Felt good, really good.

• 37:14Nancy Glass?

  Cindy recounted the highs and lows of the past few years, like how she met Kenny. And just before flying to Hawaii, her life was the best it had ever been.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  I just didn't think it was possible to have it all and be that happy. I didn't think it existed, like a unicorn. A lot of what I fell in love with Kenny was how good he was to my children and how they loved him back. It just felt so natural. Everything was so easy. I was shocked how easy it was.

• 37:47Nancy Glass?

  Most shocking was how quickly everything fell apart after the trip she and Kenny took to Hawaii.

• 37:54Speaker 03

  These kids were happy when I left. In one week, they were destroyed. In one week, my family was destroyed.

• 38:04Nancy Glass?

  Cindy shared how frustrating it was that no one talked with her and Kenny before filing charges.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  It felt like everyone had already formed an opinion before I even got involved. That was very upsetting.

• 38:20Nancy Glass?

  And then her lawyer brought her back to October 1st, 2019, when a judge took her three children away and her role as mother forever changed.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  I got notification from my attorney to hand the kids over immediately to Steve. It wasn't really explained why. I pulled up, and Christine was there, and the kids got out and went over to her car.

• 38:45Nancy Glass?

  Cindy testified that she never imagined that would be the last day she'd see her children in an unsupervised, normal environment.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  I lost my family. I had a great relationship with my kids. I lost that. It's gone. I don't think I'm ever going to get it back.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  I've lost respect for a system that I thought would help and protect me. I just, I'm trying to be hopeful. I'm trying to be positive that I'll have a day, that I'll reunify with my kids. My daughter is going to be 18 in less than a year, and I'm really looking forward to that day, that this hell that I've lost my daughter is over. My sons, I don't know what's going to happen to my sons. I just, I don't even know what their reality is anymore. Do you worry that your kids believe Mr. Hamp abused them? Yes, I do. I still worry about that.

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Do you worry that your kids think you somehow supported or assisted in him doing so?

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Yes, I think that's what they think. Do you want them to know what you believe to be the truth? That is, that they were not abused?

• 40:09Speaker 03

  They deserve the truth, and absolutely I want them to know. They have to know. I don't want them going through the rest of their life thinking this actually happened to them, that their mother would ever allow something like this to ever happen to them.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  I think they know Kenny would never do this. I know he would never do this. I don't want my kids going through the rest of their life ever thinking this ever happened to them. But sadly, that's what they've been thinking the last four years of their life.

• 40:47Nancy Glass?

  Cindy's lawyer finished his questioning by asking Cindy about that remark Christine made, that she didn't think Cindy loved her boys.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  That really angered me to hear her say that. She has no idea about my relationship with my boys. She has spent no time with me to know anything about my relationship with my children. I love all my children, and I will protect my children, and that's why I'm here. But to say I don't love my kids? No one is going to tell me I don't love my kids.

• 41:25Nancy Glass?

  The case went to the jury on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. No one expected a verdict until after the holiday, but that next morning, Cindy got a call from one of her lawyers.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  And he says, get your big girl pants on. The verdict's in.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  I was kind of stunned. I think I was in shock that they were back already.

• 41:46Nancy Glass?

  90 minutes later, she and Kenny were back in the courtroom. The mood was tense. She could hear her heart pounding, and the already-packed courtroom became even more crowded.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  I saw all these people sitting on my side, 50 or 60 people, that I didn't recognize.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  And then Christine's there. She has her head down the whole time that I see her, and she's tapping this pencil like really nervously. And that's when the jury arrived.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  I was advised, ladies and gentlemen, that the jury has reached a verdict at this time. The court is going to read the verdict form, start to finish. So I didn't know what to expect or what was going to come out of it.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  It felt like I was kind of in a black hole.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  A little bit, you know, like tunnel vision. So we're holding hands and my attorney is holding my other hand. We're just shaking, just like, you know, what's going to happen? What's going on? It's like everything that we've fought for was happening. We're going to find out right now.

• 42:54Nancy Glass?

  For Kenny's claim against Steve for outrageous conduct, malicious prosecution, abusive process, defamation and punitive damages, the jury found in favor of Kenny. They awarded Kenny damages of over $13 million. For Cindy's claim against Steve for outrageous conduct and conspiracy, the jury ruled in favor of Cindy. They awarded her over $6.5 million. For Cindy's claim against Christine for outrageous conduct and conspiracy, they ruled in favor of Cindy. They awarded her $1 million in damages.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  They read the jury verdict and it was everything in our favor. I was stunned. I was crying.

• 43:51Nancy Glass?

  When you add up all the damages, it totaled over $21 million. Steve had thrown in a counter suit against Cindy, claiming she had defamed him. But in the end, the jury found that Cindy and Kenny were the only ones who had been wronged. And now Steve was on the hook for over $20 million in damages. Here's Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  They put a high number on it because this is absolutely outrageous. But for a gentleman who proudly testified that he had made $273 million on one sand deal, it takes a different number. And that number that the jury rendered, I believe is fair and I believe it's warranted. It was, it was highly emotional. It still makes me emotional to this day, obviously, that nobody listened to us. Everybody was fighting this.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Everybody.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  No one would back down. And we took it to the end and we did it.

• 44:52Nancy Glass?

  It was a moment of vindication, a moment for celebration, a moment to exhale. In 1,500 days, this was the closest Cindy had been to getting her kids back.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  But it wasn't over at that time.

• 45:07Nancy Glass?

  Kenny's eyes scanned the courtroom, glazing over all the reactions to look for one man, Steve.

• 45:14Speaker 03

  So when I looked over and I see the man that did all this to me, he wasn't there to read the jury verdict. Steve didn't even show up for the verdict.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  He doesn't show up when he loses. He can't even show up.

• 45:29Nancy Glass?

  On the day of the verdict, Steve wasn't in the courtroom. Cindy, Kenny and their counsel had no idea where he was. They found out later.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  He served Christine divorce paperwork, got on a plane and flew back to Hawaii.

• 45:46Nancy Glass?

  To everyone's surprise, Steve had left the continental U.S. While the trial was going on, he'd been facing another reckoning at home with his soon to be ex-wife Christine. As journalist Chris Osher would write in an article for the Denver Gazette.

• 46:05Speaker 05

  There had been allegations that Steve was promising her $2 million to tailor her testimony a certain way and back up his assertions.

• 46:15Nancy Glass?

  The verdict was not the end of this saga. There's another chapter, Christine's story, and there's one more twist.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  I'm not surprised that this story found you. I'm a little surprised at how it found you.

• 46:33Nancy Glass?

  That's next time on Burden of Guilt.

• 46:59Nancy Glass?

  Thanks for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe, rate and review the series with five stars, hopefully. That helps other people find our show. Are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our Instagram account at Glass Podcasts. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

• 47:42Nancy Glass?

  This series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass, produced by Todd Gans, also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Additional production support provided by Carrie Hartman. Thank you to our voice actors, James Palumbo, Lucy Kohler, Tim Perez Ross, Heather Plank, Trey Morgan and Tommy Henry. Our story editor is Monique LaBord. Our production manager is Kristin Milkeri. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Dean Welsh. Audio mixing and mastering by Anna McLean and Matt Del Vecchio.

• 48:26Nancy Glass?

  The Burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyB Music. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app or Apple Podcasts.

• 48:49Speaker 04

  Some people use ChatGPT to answer questions. Others use it to get real work done. With ChatGPT work, you bring the goal, plus real inputs like briefs, notes, files, feedback, data and project plans. It can help turn them into an analysis, tracker, deck outline, prototype, or workflow you can review and keep shaping. You stay in control, giving direction and choosing the final output. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode. Available on Plus and Pro plans.

• 49:20Speaker 01

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