Jocko Underground: Full Transparency is a Violation of Privacy.

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 168, sitting here with Echo Charles. Going to address some issues from the troopers out there in the world. What do we got? Let's go.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  First question, I'm an executive at a large corporation with several senior managers reporting to me. After months of feedback and coaching, I removed the manager from his role due to performance issues and reassigned him to a position better suited to his technical and leadership skills. This was a deliberate decision, not spontaneous. Our organizational effectiveness specialist recommends briefing the senior leadership team on why the change was made to maintain trust and prevent rumors. I believe the specifics are private between me, the manager, and his new boss. And that sharing could undermine his credibility or set a precedent.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  How should I balance transparency with the team to maintain trust and morale while respecting the manager's privacy and taking ownership of this decision?

• 1:03Jocko Willink?

  So I do think it's important to explain what's going on, right? If we don't explain what's going on, then we get rumors and the rumors are not going to be good. So I think it's important to explain what's going on, but I would.

• 1:20Jocko Willink?

  I would focus on the, the reason that the change was made and I would more specifically, I would focus on the positive reasons that this change was made.

• 1:33Jocko Willink?

  And there certainly are positive reasons that this change is made. And those are.

• 1:40Jocko Willink?

  Like you could be saying things like, hey, listen, he has more experience in this area. Or we needed his expertise in this subject matter, or he has better technical knowledge. Hey, listen, I gotta move Fred over there. You know, he's got more experience. He's got more technical knowledge. We don't have any time to train someone up to his level. That's where we're going to put him over there. And I think that's the move, right? So you, you figure out what the positive is. It actually says in here, like he says.

• 2:11Jocko Willink?

  And moved him to a position better suited to his technical and leadership skills. Oh, I need to, so you can, you can frame this in a way that it is a positive thing as opposed to framing it that it's a negative thing. And by the way, I've done this a lot and, and it's, it is telling the truth, right? It's telling the truth in the situation.

• 2:34Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's what I would do. I would say, hey, listen, we're moving Fred. I need someone in that area. I needed to get someone that's going to be real specific and focused on, on that technical aspect. And he's the guy that has that real good technical leadership skill. So that's why I need him in there. And they're real, you know, I'd frame it that way and it'll be fine. And look, there will be some people that sense, you know, a little that they'll, they'll sense that some of the negative aspects of it as well. But you don't need to give it to them. Like they'll, okay. Like, well, yeah, it's because he, because he rubbed people the wrong way.

• 3:16Jocko Willink?

  You can sit there and say that in the, in the, uh, that'd be like a, a mitigated rumor, right? But the mitigated rumor will be overwhelmed by, oh yeah, he had this going on and that's why we moved him. Simple as that.

• 3:32Jocko Willink?

  And then by the way, this still means it's also your decision. So you're taking ownership of the decision. And you're presenting this stuff in a positive light, which is all true. It's good for the company. It's good for him. It's good. It's good all around. So that's what I would do in that situation.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  That's actually good. And when you think about it, it kind of plays a lot of decisions because it's, it avoids kind of the drama scenario in, in which is instead of like, hey, this guy got punished, you know? Drama, fun, drama, kind of a thing. It's kind of like, hey,

• 4:04Speaker 01

  We had something that was maybe inconsistent, incongruent, maybe for lack of a better term, a problem that we just had to, this was a better fit.

• 4:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  You see what I'm saying? Like, um, like that's actually a, uh, one of the expressions, right? It wasn't a good fit here, you know, kind of a thing. It's like a way to.

• 4:18Jocko Willink?

  It's another way of saying it. I did that with a guy one time, um, moved him from one position to another position. And then took, you know, I was like, okay, cool. And, and is I, for a various number of reasons, I did this. I made the announcement of like to the crew. Like, hey, I'm moving such and such, such and such position, uh, you know, gonna have him doing this and focused on that. And you're, it's good, didn't like phase anybody. Everyone's kind of like, oh, Roger that. And then after that, I was like, hey, let me, let me just debrief you on some stuff before you move over there. And he came into my office and I shut the door and I was like, I just fired you. Then you, and you saw like, he was like, okay. Yeah. I wanted to make him a hundred percent know, I wanted him to know

• 5:04Jocko Willink?

  that he didn't meet the standard and the things that I had addressed with him, he did not do, and he just got fired. That I didn't want to publicly hang him.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:15Jocko Willink?

  He didn't have any hanging offenses, but he also needed to know that he did not step up his game. And so I let him know that personally, but I didn't crucify him in front of the crowd because we needed him. We needed him to perform that. The new duty that he got was also an important duty. He needed to do it well. He needed to still have respect from the crew and he needed a opportunity and a chance to, uh, perform. But at the same time, I felt if I just moved him without telling him that, he would continue to perform the same way.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Right, right. That makes sense.

• 5:51Jocko Willink?

  And so I brought him to my office and I said, you just got fired.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  So, alright.

• 6:00Jocko Willink?

  And it sounds like this guy already addressed this stuff with that guy.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  Which is, which means we're covered there.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, he mentions it wasn't spontaneous. So yeah, this is no. But even like, even with your kids, like if they, you know, they make a mistake or do something there, you know? And then if you can control our emotions and be like, oh, wait, this kid's 10. 10 year olds make these types of mistakes literally all the time. Be like, hey, instead of, oh, you're in trouble. Or and then telling, telling everyone, you know, they're in trouble. They did this and this is their party. It's not that. It's like, hey, you tell them, hey, this was wrong. This is what you should do instead. Do something good. Like, don't, um, I don't know. They forgot to take out the trash. I don't know, whatever. Be like, hey, um, try to remind yourself, set a reminder or something like this. Tell them the positive, the thing to do rather than harp on like the negative or whatever. And then, yeah, then if you want to tell somebody, say, hey, uh,

• 6:52Speaker 01

  hey, we're setting reminders now and this is going to help you, help us, help everybody.

• 6:56Jocko Willink?

  And also what's interesting about that is like you, like, let's say your kid does something stupid or it's something wrong, right? Let's say, and you address it. And you frame it in a positive way in front of the group. But then behind the scenes, you tell them like this was wrong. And this is, you're going to be, there's going to be consequences for these actions. So you will gain some leadership capital because you didn't like humiliate them in front of their birthday party, you know, or whatever the case may be. And even with like that guy, like he was,

• 7:38Jocko Willink?

  you know, he's mad or whatever. He's frustrated that he got fired, but he's also appreciative that I didn't publicly humiliate him, which would be an asshole thing to do. And you're, you know, you, like I said, I still need this guy. I still want to have a good relationship with him. And even firing him privately, let him know that like, dude, I trust you. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen.

• 8:10Jocko Willink?

  Go to jockounderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen

• 8:55Jocko Willink?

  this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.