05 Jesse & Luke | What Jesse's housemates found after the shooting

The court has heard the Triple Zero (000) call made from Luke Davies's phone at the time of the shooting and what Jesse Baird's housemates noticed when they returned home that afternoon. In this episode as we listen to the emergency call, Jamie McKinnell explains the dispute around who made it, what Beau Lamarre-Condon did after and how police colleagues of the accused realised they were investigating one of their own. If you have any questions you'd like Jamie and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Family and domestic violence support: If you need help, contact 1800 Respect https://1800respect.org.au/ national helpline on 1800 737 732. The Case Of is the follow-up to the hit podcast Mushroom Case Daily, and all episodes of that show will remain available in the back catalogue of The Case Of.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Joe Biocchi Peterson is the bogeyman of Australian history. He's the polio survivor turned peanut farmer who became a hillbilly dictator ruling Queensland for two decades.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  So how did Joe build his so-called police state? And when did it all come crumbling down? And why was he once voted the greatest Queenslander of all time?

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Tune in to The Dead Can't Sue to find out on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

• 0:45Stephen Stockwell?

  For two days after Jessie and Luke were shot in a Paddington terrace, their accused murderer came and went from the house, cleaning the scene and removing their bodies, all while Jessie's housemates continued to live their lives unaware. I'm Stephen Stockwell. Just a heads up, there is some graphic content and images coming up in this episode. We'll give you a warning before we get there. This is episode five of the case of Jessie and Luke.

• 1:10Speaker 04

  He's accused of shooting Jessie Baird and Luke Davies with his service firearm.

• 1:14Speaker 05

  Police now allege Constable Beau Lamarcondon murdered the couple at a home in Paddington.

• 1:20Speaker 06

  This is just a terrible incident that's occurred here, the loss of these two young men.

• 1:27Speaker 07

  Now this is Mardi Gras time and yet it's a community in mourning. The pain is ongoing. We don't have a lot of answers that we would love to have, just to help bring closure, to bring peace.

• 1:38Stephen Stockwell?

  From the triple zero call in between the second and third gunshots to what unfolded following the deaths of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies, the jury's been given an almost a minute by minute breakdown of what is alleged to have happened. And there through it all is ABC Legal Affairs reporter, Jamie McKinnell. Welcome, Jamie.

• 1:57Speaker 04

  Hello, Stocky.

• 1:58Stephen Stockwell?

  Jamie, there's been some pretty confronting evidence the last couple of days in court. The triple zero call made from Luke Davies's phone in the midst of this shooting.

• 2:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think the triple zero call was one of the most upsetting things to hear for some people in the public gallery so far, because it was not only the context of knowing what was allegedly happening at that point during the call, but also something really simple of hearing Luke's voicemail message afterwards. There were some attempts to call his phone back. And I think hearing his voice in that setting of just a voicemail greeting that you would hear so often as a loved one, and a reminder of that in court was quite upsetting and caused a lot of emotion and tears in the public gallery.

• 2:40Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, I can imagine. Jamie, do you think you can wrap up the last couple of days for us in 60 seconds or so?

• 2:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, so Jessie Baird's two housemates have been called as witnesses and they've given evidence of seeing two surfboard bags in their courtyard with a red liquid on the ground underneath. We heard from two more police colleagues of Beau Lamarcondon, and they've remembered conversations with him before the alleged murders in which he was asking about police techniques. We heard these conversations covered things like the tracking of hire cars, retrieving mobile phone location records, bank records and cash purchases, break and enter investigations and CCTV. And one of those colleagues told the court that on a shift the day before the alleged shootings, he spoke to the defendant about a recent case that involved a man who had

• 3:30Speaker 04

  killed his ex-partner. And according to that witness, Beau Lamarcondon thought that man was stupid for doing it on CCTV. We've also heard the audio of the triple zero call made from Luke Davies's phone, and that has prompted a lot of emotion in the public gallery. There were two attempts to call it back, which went to Luke's voicemail. And now the jury is viewing more of this enormous collection of CCTV that we've heard about, and it's covering the hours and days after the alleged murders. So the jurors are seeing more about what the Crown says Beau Lamarcondon was doing and where he was going after the events of February 19.

• 4:11Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you, Jamie. So much to unpack in this episode. One of the things that I would like to talk about a bit later is just what it would have been like for the colleagues of Beau Lamarcondon to realise they're investigating someone who they work with. But before then, I want to get into this triple zero call. What is this?

• 4:30Speaker 04

  So this is a phone call made from the phone of Luke Davies, and it was placed just after 9.50am on February 19 in 2024. Now, it's very short. It lasted only a matter of seconds, but there's also a lot of noise in there. So when we heard it in court, it was quite difficult to make out what might be being said in this. And the jury had a heads up about this. The Crown before has told them that it's a very muffled call and suggested what they say you can hear in there. But because of the, the speed of it and the amount of noise going on, it's quite difficult to make out. But there is a male voice almost immediately as the call connects.

• 5:08Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, and you may be able to hear that as we play this audio for you. Now, just a warning, this is quite confronting audio. So if this isn't something you want to listen to, you can skip forward 30 seconds, but this is that triple zero call.

• 5:23Stephen Stockwell?

  Do you need police fire ambulance? Sydney, New South Wales, please.

• 5:32Stephen Stockwell?

  Police, go hotel staff. 2198975. Caller disconnected, no request. I had a mail say F off, call dropped out. Thank you, I'll leave it with me. Thank you.

• 5:43Stephen Stockwell?

  So that is the triple zero call from Luke Davies's phone to triple zero. Jamie, what is that audio or that sound at the start?

• 5:51Speaker 04

  Well, the jury was told that this was a recording of the dispatch system. So they weren't told exactly what that is, but it's possible it's some kind of emergency services tag. But you can hear that male voice even before the operator asks, do you require police, fire or ambulance?

• 6:07Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, okay, Jamie. And I mean, it is, yeah, very hard to hear what's going on. So we'll play that again for you so you can listen to that triple zero call. And again, just a warning, if this is something you want to listen to, skip forward 30 seconds.

• 6:21Stephen Stockwell?

  Do you need police fire ambulance? Sydney, New South Wales, please.

• 6:31Stephen Stockwell?

  Police, go hotel staff. 2198975. Caller disconnected, no request. I had a mail say F off, call dropped out. Thank you, I'll leave it with me. So again, that is the triple zero call from Luke Davies's phone. Jamie, what is the suggestion from both the prosecution and defence about this call?

• 6:50Speaker 04

  So there's a dispute over who made that call, basically. So we know that the defence case is that there were two separate struggles in the house, both involving the police gun, and that those two struggles were what resulted in the deaths. But the prosecution says that Beau Lamarcondon murdered Jessie Baird by allegedly shooting him in the kitchen, and then Luke Davies was allegedly shot through a bedroom door as he was trying to call for help. But the way it fits into the defence case is that, that there was a struggle with Jessie first, and then the defence says it was Beau Lamarcondon who picked up a mobile phone in the house and tried to call triple zero. And that's when he tried to go to the door afterwards and encountered Luke Davies. So there's a dispute over who made the call, basically.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  And the Crown is suggesting that it was Luke Davies who was calling for help, and it is Luke Davies's voice you can hear on that call.

• 7:42Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, and we do have attempted return calls after this as well, but as you mentioned at the start of this episode, those calls don't go anywhere.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, so this is all recorded on the, on the dispatch system, but we were played the recordings of those. And so what ended up happening in court was basically there were recordings of Luke Davies's voicemail played twice. Hi, you've reached Luke, please leave a message and I'll get back to you.

• 8:08Speaker 04

  Now, we also heard that they sent police officers to the area and they tried to do some patrols, but they weren't able to pinpoint the exact location that that call came from.

• 8:17Stephen Stockwell?

  How close did they get to this area? Are they just looking around what the general kind of Paddington suburb? Is that what we heard?

• 8:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, it sounds like they were sort of in the, in the broader area. So they, because it was such a short call and it was a mobile phone call, that they couldn't exactly pinpoint the, the location. And they did make those attempts, as we heard, to, to call the number back twice, and that seems to have not gone anywhere as well.

• 8:41Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, thank you, Jamie. Later in the day, you know, Monday afternoon, we hear that Jessie Baird's housemates return home. There's two of them, these are women in their twenties. And we've spoken about how both of these housemates notice the surfboard bags at the back, which the prosecution says have the bodies of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies in them. Do these housemates do anything?

• 9:05Speaker 04

  Well, the first housemate we heard from, she's a woman who's been given the pseudonym Belinda Smith for the trial. She said that she arrived home around 5.30, I think, on the day of these alleged shootings. And she was going into the courtyard because she said she'd done some washing. She was checking on some cushion covers or pillow covers that she was drying. And she noticed that those items had mud on them. And so she starts texting her other housemate and saying, I don't know what's going on, but these look dirty and they were meant to be clean. And then she sees these two surfboard bags. And Belinda Smith says there's a blue tarp over them. And there's also a red liquid on the ground, very close to them. So she takes a photo of them and

• 9:47Speaker 04

  she texts her other housemate. And the other housemate's response to that message was a text saying, what the F. Now, Ms. Smith has said in her evidence that she had never seen surfboard bags or surfboards in the house. And also Jessie Baird had never spoken to her about surfing. And she was asked what she thought that red liquid was that was sitting on the ground. And she said, I thought it was rusted water from the outdoor furniture. The Crown also asked her, you had no reason to suspect at the time that there was anything else in those bags? And she said, no, I didn't. And the Crown's allegation, as you said, Stocky, is that Bola Marcondon had stored the bodies of Jessie and Luke in those bags in the courtyard and then

• 10:31Speaker 04

  come back at a later point to move them.

• 10:33Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. Does the other housemate do anything when she gets home?

• 10:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, so the second housemate, she was given the pseudonym Sarah King, and she arrived home a lot later, but she had been messaging the other housemate. She also noticed these items in the backyard and she took more photos of them. And she actually told the court that she even poked either one of the surfboard bags or the tarp. And then she told the court that it just sounded like a tarp when she touched it.

• 11:01Stephen Stockwell?

  Do they notice anything when they get up the next day?

• 11:04Speaker 04

  Well, at some point, Belinda Smith said those items were cleared, but she wasn't sure exactly when that happened. So she suggested that it was at some point the next day that she noticed those items weren't there anymore. And I think the second housemate was sort of similar. She just couldn't remember when those items seemed to have gone from their courtyard.

• 11:25Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, right. Just to kind of refresh everyone on the timeline, the shooting occurs on Monday morning. Tuesday is when the items of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies are found in the skip at the Bowls Club. And then Wednesday is when police actually attend this Paddington Street terrace and start talking to one of the housemates. Jamie, where is the housemate relationship between these two women and Jessie Baird up to at this point? Can you put this in some context for us?

• 11:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, so we've heard that Jessie Baird was due to move out on the week of his death. And it sounds like from the evidence of the two housemates that the sort of dynamic in the house had soured somewhat. Ms. Smith said Jessie had been told that the other two housemates wanted another friend to live with them. And she told the court that part of the reason was her dissatisfaction with his cleanliness as a housemate. She said that initially he was upset about being asked to move out, but things were still cordial between them, according to her. And she also said he had agreed on a date that he would be out by. Now, when that date comes and goes, that's when the two housemates are messaging each other. And we've

• 12:34Speaker 04

  seen different conversations between them over messages where they seem confused about what's happening with the move. And they're frustrated that, for example, there's furniture still on the front doorstep or near the street, and that they're talking to each other about what's going on and is he even moving. So there was a level of frustration in those text messages. But then they got a message in a housemate group chat from Jessie Baird's phone. And that message says that I've hired an air tasker to come and get my bed with a van. It also said that he might be going on a road trip to Perth. But it told the housemates that he should be back by the end of the week, and then all of his things will be out by then.

• 13:15Stephen Stockwell?

  And Jamie, we've heard that Jessie Baird was kind of supposed to be moving out on the Monday that he was shot. And so there is, I guess, a bit of frustration from the housemates that that hasn't seemed to have happened, at least from where they are. And then they get this message from Jessie Baird's phone. And the language around this is interesting in court, you know, that we've got the prosecutor saying a message from Jessie Baird's phone. Is the suggestion here that this is Bola Marcondon pretending to be Jessie Baird?

• 13:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the reason why he's using that kind of language. Because in the Crown's opening, we heard that the allegation is Bola Marcondon was using Jessie's phone after his death to give the impression that he was still alive.

• 13:55Stephen Stockwell?

  And Jamie, this is partly why I feel kind of bad for these women, because, you know, they've got a housemate who they are expecting to be out of the house and doesn't appear to be leaving. They have no idea what has unfolded at this point when they're having these conversations. Are they kind of complaining about him?

• 14:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, there was some things in the messages in the lead up to this as well, where they were talking about, you know, him having Luke over or him behaving certain ways in the house. Or there was the talk of somebody using somebody's toothpaste. So the kind of, you know, housemate arguments that I guess are pretty run of the mill. But it sounds like the two housemates were, you know, venting, I guess, to each other would be a fair word.

• 14:40Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, on the fact that Jessie Baird is moving out of the house, we did hear as well that the housemates weren't kind of satisfied with his cleanliness around the house, which is a reason that they wanted to have another housemate moving, or at least the reason that they were kind of working around with each other. I don't think he actually heard that directly from them. But is that part of the reason that the housemates organised cleaners for the property as well?

• 15:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, so we've heard that this was basically a bond clean that had been booked for the Wednesday. So Belinda Smith messaged this group chat back after that message from Jessie's phone that seemed to suggest there was a bit of a change in the plan. And she said, look, I'm confused. We've organised a bond clean. We need your room clear by tonight. And there's also a message from that, coming back from Jessie's phone in reply, saying, what time are the cleaners coming? So there's a bit of a conversation going on. Now, the Crown, as we said, alleges that that was Bola Marcondon using Jessie's phone to reply. The other housemate we heard from Sarah King was also involved in that group chat. So there was a lot of communication going on in the housemate group chat.

• 15:50Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, and we know the house is kind of cleaned on that Wednesday, because that's what the police arrive to when they come to kind of look for Jessie Baird and Luke Davies. They see the cleaners in the house and end up calling back one of those housemates to have a conversation with her. And I suppose that's the moment that she would realise as well, potentially what is unfolding is on that kind of Wednesday afternoon. Jamie, we've heard a lot about what the prosecution says Bola Marcondon is doing after the shooting, what he's doing in the kind of hours afterwards. And we've watched a lot of CCTV of his movements to and from the Brown Street Terrace. What have we seen?

• 16:28Speaker 04

  So we seem to have picked up in the sort of timeline in a chronological sense. So there's another compilation of CCTV being played now from different locations. And it shows where he's alleged to have gone and his movements after the alleged shooting. So while the housemates are at work, there is footage of him going back to that same sports store that he bought the first surfboard bag and buying a second surfboard bag. A reminder here that the Crown's allegation is that his plan was allegedly to murder Jessie Baird. And he allegedly murdered Luke Davies because he was a witness. And the Crown says that the alleged clean up was complicated now by having two bodies instead of one. So we've

• 17:13Speaker 04

  also heard that he went to Bunnings as one of the first, you know, stops on this hours afterwards. They couldn't get the CCTV from Bunnings by the time they went back to try and retrieve it. But they do have receipts showing what he bought. And there were sort of cleaning supplies, including a mop and bucket and bleach and rubbish bags. And then there was another part of the CCTV where we see a person wearing that same high vis outfit with a helmet on. But this time they're walking around the street of near Jessie's terrace. And they're carrying supplies. So they're carrying, you know, the sort of supplies that seem to have been bought from Bunnings.

• 17:54Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. Jamie, in our last episode, we were talking about the crime scene officer, Bronwyn Lansley, you know, and her evidence around what police found when they went to the Brown Street Terrace for their investigations. That was mostly her evidence in chief. And we had just started her cross examination. You know, that has now finished. She's been cross examined by the defence. What stood out to you about the questions that she was asked by Bola Marcondon's barrister?

• 18:20Speaker 04

  Well, she got a couple of very specific questions about the DNA testing on the gun, which we spoke about in the last episode. And she confirmed that Luke Davies could not be excluded as a major contributor to the DNA that was found on the parts of the gun. There were three different individuals that contributed to that mix of DNA. She also confirmed under cross-examination that at no stage was a projectile or fired bullet retrieved from the bedroom. And she also was asked about any marks on the wall or impact damage from a bullet. And she confirmed that there was no damage along those lines inside the bedroom. So she was also asked about this test that they did on the door.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  When police found the hole in the door, they took it off its hinges, fired a test shot through the door. And Bronwyn Lansley said the damage was similar to the test bullet that they had fired through it. And John Stratton S C, the Defence Counsel, asked her about her opinion of the similarities and saying that it was the same characteristics. And she agreed that there are some similarities, but there are also differences, although she said the differences are very slight.

• 19:31Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, thank you, Jamie. It's good to round out that evidence and kind of get an understanding of what questions the defence is asking of these witnesses. The other thing I want to talk about, Jamie, you mentioned this at the top of the episode, the people that Bo Lamar Condon worked with in New South Wales Police. Now, he was a member of the New South Wales Police, he was friends with a number of police. And one of them in particular, a detective who he would do these kind of extra time shifts with, kind of stuck out to me. And some of the questions that Bo Lamar Condon was asking him when they were working, I think the day before this shooting, what was he asking him about?

• 20:10Speaker 04

  So the conversation seemed to have covered a lot of different police techniques. But this witness was someone called Ben Higginson. Now, he, as you said, worked multiple optional sort of user pays type shifts. He was also a Sellbright operator. And Sellbright is the software that police use to basically take a complete download of a person's mobile phone. And from that, they can think, they can retrieve things like deleted website history or messages or text conversations. It's a very technical process that can take hours, he said, and it requires special training. So in early 2024, he was working at a music festival with Bo Lamar Condon. And the topic of Sellbright downloads came up.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  And he says Bo Lamar Condon asked him what can police retrieve through that process and whether they can get things like Snapchat messages. And he said they also covered in this conversation questions about encrypted apps like WhatsApp or Signal. And in relation to Snapchat, Mr. Higginson told him, no, once the messages expire, they're basically gone and you can't get them even through this process. He also described in this conversation, Bo Lamar Condon asking about the Signal issue. And he said that at the time, he was doing some Sellbright downloads on a phone and was having trouble with the software and wasn't getting all of the Signal messages.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  There was also a second time that they had this type of conversation about police techniques. And it was actually on the day before the alleged murder. So on February 18, they were working in the domain. And Mr. Higginson told the court that during this conversation, he was talking to Bo Lamar Condon about a recent case that he'd worked on. He said it was a really difficult case. It was a young lady called Lily James, who had been killed by her ex-partner, Paul Tyson. And he told the jury that Mr. Lamar Condon asked him, would Paul Tyson have gotten away with it if he hadn't died by suicide? And he also remembered Bo Lamar Condon saying that he thought Paul Tyson was stupid for doing it on CCTV.

• 22:19Speaker 04

  Now, they spoke also about other techniques, like how police can get bank records, how cash purchases can make things more difficult to track and how to, you know, retrieve mobile phone data. But at the time, Mr. Higginson said these conversations didn't seem like they were unusual or out of the ordinary. He said it's, it's pretty normal for police to sort of educate themselves. There's so many different programs that they can do and investigative techniques they have, that it's quite normal for police to have these conversations and give examples about how evidence has helped previous investigations.

• 22:54Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. Jamie, there's another friend of Bo Lamar Condon's as well, another cop, Alexandra Scobie. And while a lot of people seem to kind of focus their connection or, you know, relationship with Bo Lamar Condon around, you know, their work, it seemed like Bo Lamar Condon and Alexandra Scobie were a little bit closer than that, right?

• 23:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I certainly got that impression through the amount of text messages and communication between them. So they met first around early 2020. But we heard that they would share details of their personal lives with each other. And we saw that reflected in these text message threads that also go sometimes for what they called recovery sessions after the gym, at sort of a spa or somewhere like that. And in mid-April, he told Ms. Scobie, this is in 2023, that he had seen messages in Jessie Bed's phone. And he sent Ms. Scobie a photo of a phone in a hand showing Jessie Bed's Instagram direct messages with another man.

• 23:59Speaker 04

  And in that message, Jessie Bed had referred to what he had with Bo Lamar Condon at the time as being something casual. Now, in the text messages, the defendant's response to that to Alex Scobie was, quote, "Is this C-word serious?" He said, yes, while we aren't in a relationship, he's downplaying it. And he was expressing what sounded like, you know, frustration or confusion about this. And her advice to him was walk away with your head held high, you know, you'll get hurt. She was being quite a supportive friend and giving him an ear to talk to, basically.

• 24:39Speaker 04

  She seemed to be a person that Bo Lamar Condon confided in after that, a first apparent breakup with Jessie Bed in sort of April 2023. We saw other messages from the next month, where he told her he was very down and depressed. And he said he just wanted to curl up in a ball and cry.

• 24:57Speaker 04

  And she was messaging him in a very encouraging way, saying things like, think of all the positive things in your life, you know, you can get through this, you've got a holiday coming up. She was being a very supportive friend in those text messages. In June, he sent her a photo from the gym where he was at the gym and he saw Jessie Bed on the television screen above him and was saying things like, I miss him so much, I just don't want to see his face right now. And later in 2023, this was after August, things seemed to have started up again with Jessie Bed and Mr. Lamar Condon. And Alex Scobie said that he told her he didn't have feelings at that point, but it was more of a mutual friends with benefits type situation.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  Now, that, as we've heard, was cut off by Jessie Bed in November 2023. And in January the next year, she told the court that Bo Lamar Condon, at that point, had said to her that he was going to move on. But Alex Scobie said he did seem quite emotive and appeared angry when he was talking about how this whole situation with Jessie Bed happened.

• 26:02Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, right. And Jamie, as well as this kind of, you know, personal relationship, they're talking about relationships and the like as well, Bo Lamar Condon's also asking her about investigative processes too, right?

• 26:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that same month, so January 2024, they had a catch up and then she was dropping him somewhere at the end of that. And she told the court that he asked her how police track mobile phone location and data from mobile phones. He also asked her if they can do that, as in retrieve the data if a phone is switched off. And he also asked if hire cars can be tracked. And she remembered a comment from him at the time along the lines of, oh, don't freak out, I'm just asking. But she did say she thought that was a bit weird. She also told the court that later on that evening, he called her and tried to reassure her again and said something like, I'm not going to do anything illegal.

• 27:00Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, got it. Now, Alex Scobie is still a police officer. I think she was actually a detective as well. And on the 22nd of February, 2024, she gets called in to help with this search for two missing persons. How is she involved?

• 27:18Speaker 04

  Well, she told the court that sometimes neighbouring area commands of the police force assist each other when there's a big strike force or a big investigation. So it's not uncommon for them to borrow officers or borrow staff from elsewhere. And that's how she became involved in this strike force. She was called to help the police in Bondi that were part of this strike force. And her role, she said, was to go out and look for CCTV footage around Paddington. So she was literally knocking on doors and asking people whether they had any security camera footage. She remembered in her evidence being in a room with other officers who were on that strike force later.

• 27:59Speaker 04

  And she said they were all told to scan through CCTV and look for a white van. And she said that in that room, she overheard Bo Lamarcandon's name being mentioned. So straight away, she flagged a supervisor and was asking about that. And she said she was told right then and there that Bo Lamarcandon was the suspect in that strike force investigation.

• 28:21Stephen Stockwell?

  Jamie, does she mention the conversation that she says she had with Bo Lamarcandon about the hire car, about the phone?

• 28:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, so she told the court that immediately she saw this as a conflict of interest because she knew him and was friends with him. So she removed herself from the strike force. But then on the way home, she said that previous conversation popped into her head. And the things about hire cars and asking questions about mobile phones, that type of conversation, she started remembering. And she said she felt sick in her stomach at that point. She called a supervisor and then on the 23rd of February 2024, she said she'd been up a lot of the night, she couldn't sleep. But she got a call back saying that Bo Lamarcandon was about to be arrested. And that was the point where she organised a time to make a statement, which happened a little bit later on, and tell them about that discussion they had.

• 29:14Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. What about that other friend that we spoke about, Ben Higginson? Does he talk to police as well about what Bo Lamarcandon was asking him?

• 29:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, so we heard from him that it was around the same time, on the 23rd of February, he was seeing news stories about a Channel 10 presenter who had gone missing with his partner. Now, he had previously spoken to Bo Lamarcandon about Jesse Baird, not by name, he didn't know Jesse's name, but he knew that a person who Bo was close to was in television. And he said he had a feeling that it might have been, you know, the person who was in Bo Lamarcandon's life previously. And he said he actually thought about messaging Bo Lamarcandon about that when they were sort of in the point of it being a missing persons investigation. But he said, I also realised that he probably would have been being bombarded by messages. And so he didn't.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  But then he also said he remembered the conversations he'd had about investigative techniques. And he said, looking back at them, they seemed concerning. So he as well contacted colleagues to make a statement and has given a police statement about those conversations.

• 30:24Stephen Stockwell?

  Jamie, the stories from these police about, you know, how they've learnt of a colleague and a friend's involvement in what's unfolded is, yeah, just so incredible to kind of hear in the detail that we've heard. And I, yeah, really appreciate you breaking it down in the way you have. I do want to get to some questions. We're getting a lot sent through to the case of at abc.net.au. We do really appreciate hearing from all of you, so many wonderful questions, so many thoughts, so much great feedback as well. I want to get into, Jamie, one that we've actually got quite a bit. Something we've spoken about in previous episodes is that Bo Lamarcandon seems to have accessed Jesse Baird's phone on a number of occasions, talking to people about accessing messages and the like.

• 31:09Stephen Stockwell?

  We've had a number of emails about how this was done. Did he know the code? Did he use police powers to access it remotely? What have we heard, Jamie?

• 31:17Speaker 04

  So it was actually Alex Scobie, who was one of the witnesses who's mentioned this most recently. We've heard in a couple of different witnesses, when they're giving evidence, that Bo Lamarcandon had talked to them about seeing messages in Jesse's phone. But Alex Scobie was asked, you know, did he tell you anything about Jesse and their sort of connection or what was happening between them? And at one point, she said that Bo Lamarcandon told her he had accessed his phone. And she said, I'm not sure when, but it was prior to a shift where they were talking about this issue, which was in March 2023. And she said, he also told her that he knew Jesse's PIN code.

• 32:02Speaker 04

  And she said she wasn't sure how he knew it, but she assumed that he may have seen Jesse type it in sometime and remembered it.

• 32:10Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, thank you, Jamie. Thank you to everyone who's asked that question as well. I'm glad we could dive into that one. I had my, I think, ears prick up when Alex, I heard Alex mention something about it. So I knew you would have a clearer read on what unfolded in court, Jamie. So thank you for breaking that down for us. And one here from John, an Australian living in Saudi Arabia. Jamie, he is wondering if anyone will call Bo Lamarcandon to give evidence?

• 32:35Speaker 04

  It's possible he has the option, but we don't know what's going to happen at that point in the trial. So at the moment, where we are in the trial is the Crown case. After the Crown case finishes, the defence case will start. And that's the point where a defendant has the option to call evidence themselves or give evidence themselves. We just don't know what's going to happen at that point now. And it's worth reminding people about the onus of proof here. The judge, Justice Natalie Adams, has told jurors that Bo Lamarcandon has the presumption of innocence and that it is the Crown who has to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So he has the option of calling evidence if he chooses to, but we simply don't know what he's going to do.

• 33:20Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, thank you, Jamie. And thank you, John. Wonderful questions sent through to [email protected]. If you have a question, if there's something you're trying to fill in a gap of, you're not sure why something has happened in a certain way in court, please send us an email. [email protected] is our email address and we are reading every single one. I'm filing them and marking them with my filing system that I've told you all about previously. So please do get in touch if there's something we can help you with. Jamie, where are we off to next?

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Well, it seems like we're going to continue with this compilation of CCTV. I think that might have some way to go now. And as we've talked about, it covers the hours and probably time afterwards of the, from the alleged shooting. So it seems like we're progressing along this timeline quite chronologically. But after that CCTV, we are not sure where we're going after that.

• 34:13Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep. Thank you, Jamie. Much to discuss in our next episode. We're likely to be back in your feed tomorrow with an episode of The Case of Alan Jones. Plenty to discuss in that. We've got new complainants. We have, in fact, one less complainant as well. So be joined by Isabel Rowe to bring you the latest on that. Then I'll be back with Jamie on Thursday for another episode of The Case of Jesse and Luke. Make sure you get yourself around ABC Listen. It is the best place to listen to The Case of episodes. They appear there slightly before they appear anywhere else. You can watch our beautiful faces on there if you so desire as well, or on YouTube. And if you're listening to us on another podcast platform, please leave us a rating or review because it makes it much easier for people to find us. And definitely stay tuned because we have some very big news coming for The Case of

• 34:58Stephen Stockwell?

  on Thursday. So I'll leave you with that.

• 35:05Stephen Stockwell?

  The Case of Jesse and Luke is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. This episode was reported by Jamie McKinnell, presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producer is Greg Muller and our executive producer is Claire Rawlinson. This episode was produced on the land of the Gadigal and we're on tree people.