Kate Winslet: “The media called me fat!” Why I’m embracing wrinkles and championing women

Grief can make you feel unnervingly vulnerable; this is how Kate Winslet reflects on losing her mum in 2017. In this chat, Fearne and Kate share their own experiences of both grieving and co-parenting at Christmas. Regularly labelled as “fat” by the media, Kate explains what effect that scrutiny had on her self-esteem, and why it’s made her even more passionate about setting an example to younger women by ageing naturally. Kate also offers advice on how to live by your own gut instinct, rather than other people’s opinions, and how to approach difficult conversations with loved ones. Having recently made her directorial debut, Kate talks through what really goes on behind the scenes on a set, the safe environment she hopes to create for her actors, and the double standards applied to men and women in the film industry. Goodbye June is in cinemas from December 12th, and on Netflix on December 24th. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Joanna Page https://pod.fo/e/32ed95 Trinny Woodall https://pod.fo/e/2ff42d Dr Jenna Macciochi https://pod.fo/e/2fb45a Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  And this is Boots Off.

• 1:41Speaker 04

  We are friends who've spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts, and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 1:55Speaker 04

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 2:00Speaker 04

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Listen every Thursday, just search for Boots Off.

• 2:10Speaker 05

  And the mainstream media in the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me. Horrendous, in a way that they should all be ashamed of and every single tabloid newspaper should have sent me a written apology, which they haven't done. But I do have to advocate for myself.

• 2:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 2:25Speaker 05

  After 33 years in this business, it's quite amazing, really. I don't know that we're necessarily very good at telling each other, my god, well done, I was so impressed and proud of you for doing that. I don't think we're very good at that. And I also don't think we're very good at saying openly, I was really, really proud of myself for that thing I did, because, you know, I was up against it, but I bloody pulled it off.

• 2:45Fearne Cotton?

  It's very un-British.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  Very un-British, but I do that.

• 2:51Fearne Cotton?

  Kate Winslet, one absolute joy.

• 2:53Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you for having me.

• 2:54Fearne Cotton?

  We've not met before, which feels weird.

• 2:57Speaker 05

  Yes, it does feel a bit odd, since we've both been around for so long.

• 3:00Fearne Cotton?

  For so long, and we know people who know people.

• 3:03Speaker 05

  I don't know anyone, so...

• 3:05Fearne Cotton?

  Apart from our shared hair colourist.

• 3:07Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 3:07Fearne Cotton?

  There we go. I know, but it's so great to meet you.

• 3:10Speaker 05

  And you.

• 3:11Fearne Cotton?

  I had a chat with myself whilst prepping for this podcast, because 14-year-old me went to the St Anne's Centre in Harrow four times. I used up every penny I could find lying around to watch Titanic. And I said, right, 14-year-old Fern, you can come along today, but you're not asking the questions. So she's here.

• 3:28Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 3:29Fearne Cotton?

  But she's not in charge.

• 3:30Speaker 05

  She's just sitting on your shoulder, saying, don't do it, Fern, don't do it.

• 3:32Fearne Cotton?

  Don't do it.

• 3:34Speaker 05

  You've probably seen it more times than I've seen it.

• 3:36Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my god.

• 3:36Speaker 05

  I don't tend to watch my films very often.

• 3:38Fearne Cotton?

  Do you not?

• 3:39Speaker 05

  No, no. Funnily enough, no.

• 3:41Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 3:41Speaker 05

  It's not something I think, hmm, I'll just sit down and watch myself in a film. I don't think so.

• 3:45Fearne Cotton?

  But what about, like, at Christmas, the holidays are inescapable, surely?

• 3:48Speaker 05

  Oh, darling. No, I just don't, actually, I really don't, I don't tend to go back on things. The process of making a film and being with everybody and part of that community is so special and unique to me, that almost watching the film feels like a very separate part of the process. And sometimes I almost feel like, oh god, that's something I have to do, because it's not, I don't find it comfortable watching myself on screen. I don't know many actors who do like watching themselves on screen.

• 4:13Fearne Cotton?

  Because you're self-critical?

• 4:16Speaker 05

  I mean, probably, yes. I mean, I definitely know that I can be. Um, but also just because it feels like, I don't know, it's it's just a sort of a separate experience. Watching it all put together is so different to the process of making it. Day to day, living and breathing and experience with a big group of people. That seeing something in isolation, separate to those individuals, feels very odd. So I think it's got something to do with that.

• 4:44Fearne Cotton?

  Slightly different this time round, I'm imagining for Goodbye June. Because not only are you in it, but you're also directing it. So you've kind of got to have all eyes on all of it outside of your respective part of the acting in it.

• 4:56Speaker 05

  Yes, and and and I produced it as well, because just doing one job or two wasn't enough. So I had to do three like an idiot. Um, but I loved it all. I mean, I I I think I was I was so exhausted and I I I and and had sort of a, I don't know, I felt like I had batteries up my bum for months on end. But I felt so uplifted by the experience. And I heard someone recently say on a podcast, actually, they were talking about the difference between stress and pressure, stress being a bad thing, but pressure being something that you can really work with. And and be uplifted by if you are enriched and fulfilled by what you're doing. And I truly experienced, I think, more than ever in my life, real fulfillment and a sense of achievement, because I had to pull off a lot in a short space of time.

• 5:41Speaker 05

  We had seven weeks to prep the film and put it together, which is when you find all of the locations and build the sets, et cetera. And then I only had seven weeks to shoot, which is thirty five days.

• 5:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  Helen Mirren, yeah, and Helen plays the title role of June. And I actually only had her for sixteen days, you know, for three weeks and one day. And she's the integral part of the story. And I had seven children, which was actually eight, because there's a baby in the film and that was identical twin girls. So there was just so much to juggle and balance all of the time. And not only keeping the atmosphere lively and joyful on set, largely for the sake of the children, but also because the subject matter at times. Was quite wearing on people emotionally, but the crew, you know, as a director, you really do have to lead by example and bring everyone with you. And so having that energy and switching that part of myself on at the beginning of every day was fantastic. And and it really

• 6:35Speaker 05

  brought me so much joy to do something that I've never done before. And and I felt proud of myself as a woman, you know, at this time in my life, I just turned fifty. And to be doing something that I have watched so many men do before. And I've seen male actors transition into directing and have done really successfully and largely without any judgment or scrutiny. And it's just not the same for girls.

• 7:00Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's not. And it feels like for you personally, not only is this an amazing challenge for you to to make that switch, but also you're doing it on behalf of women to help this cultural shift in the very male dominated Hollywood directing scene.

• 7:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, it mattered to me a great deal, I think, to to really sort of walk alongside those women who are in a minority still. And it's it's bizarre, and it's strange, and it's a shame. I think the culture is gradually changing. You know, I think something that people perhaps don't know about directing is that you aren't on the job for seven weeks of prep and seven weeks of a shoot, you know, if the prep is longer and the shoot is longer, then it's a more substantial period of time. But the development process, when you work alongside a writer, which I've done several times now, is really, really lengthy, you know, when they hand in draft after draft and you give notes and they get it right. That's a long process in itself, then pre-production and the production itself. But then you immediately

• 8:00Speaker 05

  go right into the edit. And I was across everything. I didn't I didn't leave my editor's side. My editor was a woman. I was so proud to work alongside a woman, Lucia Zuccetti, who I just love to pieces. She was wonderful. She worked a lot with Lynn Ramsey in the very early days. And so she was a huge inspiration to me every day in terms of her own. Sensibility around storytelling and and then once you finish the edit, which is ten solid weeks, you go right into the sound mix and then you go into the grade and then it's it's just it's absolutely endless. And I love that sense of back to back. And I think what people perhaps don't consider is that as women, we're so busy raising families.

• 8:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  Having children. So it is a lot harder to step away. You know, being a director, it's it's over a year of your life, start to finish. It really is. And and I certainly couldn't have done it at this in my life before this time now.

• 8:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 05

  Where my youngest is almost twelve. And I'm lucky enough to have an extraordinary husband who's at home and running the show when I'm in a studio somewhere.

• 9:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 05

  And I couldn't do any of it without Ned.

• 9:11Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it's a total given when you see a male director that no questions would be asked, like, how are you doing this and juggling a family? Whereas when it's a female in the role, those questions are probably asked before anything, like, how are you? How are you doing it all? And that, I think, only shows us, like, it illustrates that we are still carrying not only the practical burden a lot of the time, but the emotional burden of raising kids, organising everything, who's taking what to school, is there a school trip coming up, are there birthday presents to buy? It's still, there's not been that much progress in in that area. Maybe Ned is one of the few men who are doing that.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  He is one of the few. I am really very lucky. But, you know, I think what you say is is so true, that there are questions put to women that are just simply not put to men. And there are ways in which we speak to women in the film industry that we simply don't speak to men in the same way. And actually, there's still a lot that we have to unlearn in terms of, you know, just sentences that we use when speaking to women in film, assumptions that I think we so often make. I remember when Maggie Gyllenhaal directed Lost Daughter, I remember reading a review, and it actually started like this. If anyone ever doubted whether or not Maggie Gyllenhaal could direct a film, you can stop thinking that right now because she smashed it. And I just thought.

• 10:30Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 10:31Speaker 05

  Wow. But they would never say that about an actor transitioning into directing a film. And it's not to diss the boys because they're all doing so well. And it's very, very exciting to be part of a community that is changing. And lots of actors are being given that first time opportunity to direct a film. Netflix were brilliant with me. And I have to say, in general, Netflix are spectacularly good at affording filmmakers that first opportunity and that debut experience. And so they really got behind myself and my son Joe, who wrote the screenplay. And he's young and there was a huge amount of goodwill and great energy behind us from them. So that mattered a great deal. But it has been fascinating how much I still feel I do have to advocate for myself.

• 11:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  After thirty three years in this business, it's quite amazing, really.

• 11:20Fearne Cotton?

  It's wild. And also, the experience you've had in front of the camera.

• 11:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:23Fearne Cotton?

  Obviously lends itself to articulating what you want out of your actors. What was that like? I'm sure that many of them you've worked with before or are friends with, see outside of work. Did that, you know, benefit you in the directing chair, do you think?

• 11:37Speaker 05

  I think the thing that helped me is that I've been so fortunate to work with so many different directors across my career and have learnt extraordinary things in great ways. But I've also learnt things that I know weren't necessarily helpful to me.

• 11:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 05

  And so I've got a very good memory. And so I can recall certain things that may have been said or a way in which something might have been communicated that was not necessarily supportive or might have thrown me for long enough that I would lose my way in any given shooting day or lose a sense of what my intention was within the scene. And so I think just feeling underpinned by what I know is useful to an actor. And to be honest, the most important thing is that an actor feels heard and given the space to share an idea, even if it might be something that they're worried about coming out of their mouth in a weird way. And it might sound like a silly idea or they might make a mistake or forget their lines

• 12:39Speaker 05

  and make up something else. I think giving an actor a space in which they feel entirely safe and free to experiment and to. Be taken care of, you know, especially with something like Goodbye June, which deals with family, it deals with loss, it deals with very complex relationships. And there's a lot of humour in spite of the sadness that you feel at times as well in the film. And that did mean that there were many private conversations that we as actors had to have together. And then with me as their director, knowing that the trust would be there, those things would be kept very, very private and sacred between all of us. And ultimately, it bonds you much closer together.

• 13:23Speaker 05

  When you know one another on that very deep granular level and that there are things that you share that you know you would never express anywhere else outside of that really sacred circle.

• 13:37Speaker 05

  And I just loved it. And I've always said there's nothing more extraordinary than being in a room full of incredible actors. And it really felt like that.

• 13:44Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God, the cast is exceptional.

• 13:47Speaker 05

  I know, I know.

• 13:48Fearne Cotton?

  What a dream lineup of people in this film. I don't want to be as reductive to say, like, was it cathartic? Because it's not that simple, but were there moments where you were able to connect to your own experience in perhaps a painful way or a way that was slightly lightening?

• 14:06Speaker 05

  Yes, I mean, I think having lost my own mum in 2017, which still feels like yesterday.

• 14:14Speaker 05

  It was inevitable that however much I would try and keep that private experience separate to my day to day experience of playing Julia, one of the daughters, and directing Helen Mirren and watching her go through what she went through to play this part. It wasn't necessarily cathartic, but there were days when I was literally reliving what happened when I lost my own mum, even though our film is fictional.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I would find myself strangely trying to almost hide in a funny way. So in the more intimate scenes, perhaps between Helen Mirren and Tim Spall, you know, I would just sit very quietly in the room that we were shooting in. And I would hide behind Max, our lovely focus puller. And I would just sit with him quietly, watching his monitor and sort of crying on his back. I mean, I remember many times doing that. And I'm just lucky that he's someone I worked with before, with HBO on a very big six month job called The Regime. He was just a great spirit to sort of sidle up to in those moments when I think I did feel very vulnerable because it did bring all that stuff up. And actually, in this country, I don't

• 15:23Speaker 05

  think we're very good at talking about loss. I don't think we're very good at processing grief. And um i- in an interesting way, you know, it did bring up a lot of those conversations. And people were quite grateful to be able to have them, not just the cast, but sometimes the crew as well.

• 15:41Fearne Cotton?

  I bet. I mean, it's a it's a subject you've explored before in Blackbird, again, after your mum had passed away.

• 15:48Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 15:48Fearne Cotton?

  It's a very different theme and the angle that your character plays is entirely different. But again, you're having to go through that process of looking, you know, Su- Susan Sarandon in this uh in this film, obviously, but going through that loss again, it's it's full on.

• 16:05Speaker 05

  I know it is full on. And there are things I think, you know, that as actors, we're drawn to um entirely subconsciously.

• 16:11Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  And it's only in hindsight that it's crystal clear what we must have been emotionally trying to work through when we made that particular choice. It's so funny, when I look back to Blackbird, which you're right, was twenty eighteen, directed by the late wonderful Roger Michelle. Still can't believe that we don't have him with us anymore in our film community. Um but it was only a year after I had lost my mother. And uh as I look back on it now, and I think, oh my god, what was I thinking? I was in no shape, you know, emotionally fit to be making a film to do with loss at all. Um but it probably helped me to distract myself um from emotions that I probably wasn't processing efficiently enough in my own in my own life.

• 16:55Speaker 05

  They're difficult conversations to have. And I think what I love the most about Goodbye June is that it is an uplifting film. It feels warm, you know, and that mattered a great deal when we were prepping the film. We didn't want our hospital spaces to feel stark and cold and lonely, because actually, when

• 17:15Speaker 05

  Our brilliant national healthcare workers are working in end of life care. They're so loving, they're so patient, they're so kind. They will sit at the bedside for as long as that patient needs, or as long as that patient's relatives need for them to be there in order to provide that comfort. And we wanted that sentiment to be real, first of all, um, which is why we spent a lot of time on real hospital wards, working with nurses and palliative care experts, just to make sure that we weren't missing anything. Um, but we wanted to honour the work of those brilliant people and what they do in this country, which is of course, as we know, second to none.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalised AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 18:29Speaker 07

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• 19:11Speaker 09

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisie Adam. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yeah. A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 19:34Speaker 09

  You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 19:43Speaker 05

  None.

• 19:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I know. And there'll be so many people this Christmas going through exactly that, probably feeling utterly alone, like everybody else is having a jolly great Christmas and they're the ones at a bedside. When I was watching it, I had this huge memory that I'd sort of like, not forgotten, but it hadn't been in the forefront of my mind, of when my grandad was really, really on his sort of final days. And we went to visit him on Christmas Day and it was a really surreal experience of being in hospital on Christmas Day. And he was kind of in and out of lucidity and saying some like brilliantly hilarious things and being quite wacky in the state he was in. And it being, yeah, there was a lot of hope there and a lot of camaraderie from all of us

• 20:25Fearne Cotton?

  being around him. And I think there must be so many people that relate to it. And of course, when you've lost someone, I wonder how you feel about this, Christmas does have a different flavour

• 20:35Speaker 05

  to it. Oh, my gosh.

• 20:37Fearne Cotton?

  It's a different thing.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  It really does, because it's one of those huge celebratory occasions that becomes the first of something that happens after you've lost someone, the first birthday, your children's first birthday that you have after that person's gone, first Christmases, et cetera. You know, there are, they become these milestones where it becomes gapingly obvious that that person's presence isn't there anymore. And what those moments had meant for you as a family when they were with you. And so, yes, I think, I think that it is a very interesting reflective time, Christmas, because also it brings up so much, you know. It brings up so much wonderful times and really challenging times, you know.

• 21:22Fearne Cotton?

  And there's so much expectation that it's meant to be something. And if you don't land on, oh, it's this perfect sparkly day.

• 21:30Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 21:31Fearne Cotton?

  You feel like you're missing out or you've got it wrong. It's such a strange, strange thing.

• 21:35Speaker 05

  I know. I'm thinking of myself last Christmas and I was just absolutely frantic, you know, doing everything and wrapping and cooking and brining and, you know, all of that stuff. And I remember Ned at one point turning to me and saying, do you think you could just sit down? And maybe we could just have a drink. And I said, do you sit? Sit down. Are you mad?

• 21:52Fearne Cotton?

  I know.

• 21:53Speaker 05

  He looked at me like I'd totally lost my mind, which I think I probably had. But anyway, it's all worth it, isn't it?

• 21:59Fearne Cotton?

  It it it can be. It definitely can be. It is so much weird fuss for like one day. I know. Each year I think, well, my wife, I started Christmas shopping in like early October this year.

• 22:08Speaker 05

  I did that too.

• 22:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I did that too. I was like, I want to get ahead of all of this and have it wrapped and on like in the side of a room somewhere.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:17Fearne Cotton?

  And I'll think about it in December. I was thinking, what the heck? What the fuck am I doing?

• 22:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:22Fearne Cotton?

  Like first of October.

• 22:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:23Fearne Cotton?

  Logging on to Christmas shop.

• 22:25Speaker 05

  So funny.

• 22:25Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, what is, what is Christmas for you? What is Christmas Day like in your house?

• 22:29Speaker 05

  Oh, it's a real laugh. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's just fantastic. You know, there's stockings and everyone climbing into bed and all doing stockings and, you know, somebody bringing mum a cup of tea, which I love. And yeah, it's, it's one of those days when actually I find that my kids really do pause and think and take the time to kind of make me a piece of toast and scrambled eggs, like little things like that. So, and I just love all being together, you know, heaps of food, usually me and my son cooking. He's always cooked alongside me and it's great. It's really great. Lots of people. There's always visitors. It's great fun.

• 23:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so lovely.

• 23:09Speaker 05

  And games, lots of silly games.

• 23:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, like what?

• 23:12Speaker 05

  Very, very silly games. Oh my God. Last year we got obsessed with playing this game called Sounddickulous.

• 23:19Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I've heard of it.

• 23:20Speaker 05

  So it's a little box with two kazoo's in it and a little stack of cards. And you have to try and play the tune.

• 23:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 05

  Of the song written on the card, but only through a kazoo. It's flipping hilarious and actually totally made me work myself last year. Because people trying to emphatically blow harder to make the thing sound clearer when everyone's shouting out things like, you know, Tootsie! You know, it's clearly not Tootsie. That kind of thing. So that was a great game. And then there was another one, another game that somebody got us, which, and I can't remember what it was called, but it was so funny. And it's a, it's a game where each person puts on a little plastic belt and attached to the back of the belt. That dangles down between the legs is a is um uh oh it's it's it's it's a little sort of plastic hook.

• 24:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, right.

• 24:08Speaker 05

  And then the idea is that you waddle around the room with your legs straddled, trying to pick up little sort of plastic hoops that are balanced in various places on the floor.

• 24:18Fearne Cotton?

  With a fake willy.

• 24:19Speaker 05

  With a fake willy. And so and so.

• 24:23Speaker 05

  Getting everyone up on their feet, people who are normally just happy to sit there and eat a box of Quality Street, watching them with a great sort of balloon type contraction dangling between their legs is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

• 24:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I need to invest in that one.

• 24:35Speaker 05

  I can't remember what it was called.

• 24:36Fearne Cotton?

  I really like niche bespoke Christmas things that people do because you do get into a sort of sense of tradition that you end up doing the same thing every year. I remember when we were kids.

• 24:48Speaker 05

  But it's comforting.

• 24:49Fearne Cotton?

  It's so comforting.

• 24:49Speaker 05

  It's really comforting and reassuring.

• 24:51Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. My uncle, every Christmas day would put on Mike Lee's Nuts in May, which is the least Christmasy film ever.

• 24:58Speaker 05

  That's hilarious.

• 24:59Fearne Cotton?

  And we would watch that and it was not Christmas unless we had watched that. It wasn't, you know, a classic Christmas movie. It's just such a strange thing.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  That's it's a very strange thing.

• 25:08Fearne Cotton?

  It's a great film.

• 25:08Speaker 05

  I know.

• 25:09Fearne Cotton?

  You, like me, are also navigating Christmas with kids, with ex-partners, co-parenting. Do you navigate that well?

• 25:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's never been any kind of a challenge, actually, at all. But in actual fact, for the majority of the last eight years, my daughter's dad and his lovely wife, who I'm just so grateful to have in my life, and their two children, we've all had Christmases together.

• 25:33Fearne Cotton?

  That's so lovely.

• 25:34Speaker 05

  Um, and actually for his daughters, who are 12 and 15, it's now weird if they aren't with us. Um, and actually, Mia's dad and I cook the Christmas dinner sometimes.

• 25:47Fearne Cotton?

  That's so lovely.

• 25:47Speaker 05

  I know, and, uh, you know, I haven't particularly, I haven't ever actually talked about that because we just get on with it. Um, I think there's a sort of a strange fascination in the media with, you know, when uh, high-profile couples or people who are in the public eye have separated, there's sort of a huge, you know, flurry of excitement around, oh, my God, they get on.

• 26:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 05

  And of course we bloody do.

• 26:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Yeah, we've got kids together.

• 26:12Speaker 05

  Well, exactly, exactly. And yeah, and as I say, Jim, Jim's wife Julie, she's just such a spectacular lady. And I just feel so grateful to have had her as Mia's stepmother. It's something extraordinary about another mother in the world loving your child the same way that you do. And I just feel incredibly grateful to have that.

• 26:35Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, your daughter Mia is now also acting.

• 26:38Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 26:39Fearne Cotton?

  You won a BAFTA together, which was a gorgeous moment, seeing you both up on stage. Like, what an amazing, I can't even imagine how, what that felt like.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, it was just incredible, absolutely incredible. And I think being in a situation where both of my older children have gone into the film industry and wanting for them to feel as though they were carving their own paths. You know, I, I definitely felt very strongly from Mia at the time that she really wanted to prove that she could do it. And also that she was different to me. She is a very different actress to me, different person. We look very differently. She's actually quite titchy. I mean, I'm not that tall, I'm only five foot six, but she's about five foot two.

• 27:27Speaker 05

  And she's got a power to her and a sense of, and a realism about her acting. She's very, very natural, unnervingly so, actually, I think. And I was just so proud of her for the performance she gave in I Am Ruth, because it was unbelievably challenging every single day. And I think something people perhaps don't know about I Am Ruth was that it was entirely improvised. There was no scripted dialogue. There was no, there were no lines written down for us on a page. The script was made up entirely of scenes that were just description.

• 28:04Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 28:05Speaker 05

  There were no words written. So every day we were inventing the narrative. And that took real concentration, but it took from her extraordinary courage. Because she had to go to places that were very frightening. And she bloody well did it, my god, she smashed it.

• 28:23Fearne Cotton?

  That's so incredible.

• 28:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, the, like, the pride that you feel.

• 28:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, my clever girl, I mean, I just, yeah, I do feel such extraordinary pride. And then she was in The Phoenician Scheme, directed by Wes Anderson, with Benicio. And she's, she's had a really great run and she's a, she's a hard worker and, uh, and she's a, she's a great, great person. So I'm very proud.

• 28:44Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, obviously, it's, being a mum is just the most complicated wild ride ever. And you wanna set your kids free and say, go do whatever makes you happy. Was there trepidation in seeing her go into the same industry that you've been in? Especially at a young age.

• 29:00Speaker 05

  I'm not the kind of person who approaches anything in life with trepidation, uh, to be honest. So, so the answer is no. I mean, it certainly crossed my mind, okay, how was she gonna handle herself in an industry that is quite frantic? And can be particularly for her generation, particularly as a girl, really competitive. Especially right now, so many brilliant young actors are coming up and doing such great things. And it's a really exciting time, I think, to be in the film industry for young people. Plus, there's tons of opportunity now. When you look at the streamers and the content, there's masses of it. You know, when I was running around auditioning when I was sixteen, seventeen years old, there was BBC One, BBC Two. Eventually, we got ITV.

• 29:40Speaker 05

  There was radio plays, a bit of theatre, low budget films, which were rare, and films like Star Wars.

• 29:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:48Speaker 05

  And Casualty.

• 29:49Fearne Cotton?

  That was it.

• 29:49Speaker 05

  Or The Bill, or The Bill and Crime Watch, you know? And, and you were lucky if you got one of those very few gigs that everybody was vying for. But now that there's this huge wealth of content available, um, creativity is just going through the roof. And so it's very, very exciting. Um, but I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't worried about Mia not being able to, uh, handle herself. And I certainly wasn't worried about whether or not she could do it. Because I've known for years that she was gonna be an actress from when she was a little girl.

• 30:23Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  I knew, and I just thought, well, one day you'll declare it. And then she did, and she went, are you shocked? And I was like, no, not remotely.

• 30:31Fearne Cotton?

  What about the sort of press element to it? Because again, I mean, you and I both know in different ways that they can be bloody awful. And I've certainly been to hell and back. You've had your own challenges in your own life with that. Would you sort of offer words of advice or did you feel personally worried about her stepping into that?

• 30:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I think the only, I've only ever given my kids advice if they've asked for it.

• 30:53Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 30:53Speaker 05

  I've never forced anything on to them because I do want for them to completely navigate their own path.

• 30:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 05

  Because if they aren't doing that, they won't feel like they've done it and they won't truly believe in themselves and what they have to offer. So that's the most important thing. The only advice I, I have given or try and give is just to stay calm, be yourself and don't read reviews.

• 31:17Fearne Cotton?

  Never.

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Never.

• 31:19Fearne Cotton?

  Never.

• 31:20Speaker 05

  Never, ever.

• 31:20Fearne Cotton?

  Worst thing you can do.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:22Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I find feedback such an interesting concept and that's whether it's good or bad. Because I think both can be kind of equally as dangerous. I might be over egging this sort of like celebratory stuff. But I think if you buy into either side too much, you're kind of screwed because if you believe the good stuff.

• 31:43Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:43Fearne Cotton?

  Then when it goes, you don't know who the hell you are.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  Well, the thing is if you read the good stuff and you believe the good stuff, you're still going to find one bad thing.

• 31:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 05

  Only remember the one bad thing because that's how we're wired.

• 31:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 05

  So, yeah, I'd say, yeah, feedback and yes, people are things to be wary of, I think.

• 32:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I mean, where, where do you sit in it all now? Because obviously it's amazing, especially when you've worked on a project like, like Goodbye June, when you're so ingrained into every element of it. You want people to enjoy it. You want people to say, oh my God, that touched me. I wept. Or I thought it was purely joyful. But equally, when you're sort of lapping up that feedback, you are then curious about, like you said, the downside. Do you, do you read anything? Do you hear anything about your projects you're working on?

• 32:28Speaker 05

  So I, I learnt early on in my career, how to not.

• 32:36Speaker 05

  Care what people think.

• 32:37Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 32:38Speaker 05

  Because if you care what people think, then you make decisions and live your life based on potential scrutiny or criticism. But I do very much care how people feel. So when people come up to me, you know, in the eggs aisle in Waitrose and they tell me that they can't wait to sit down with their daughter and watch the holiday at Christmas like they do every single year, like many mother and daughter couples, it's a running theme, um, it warms my heart completely. So people coming up and saying, oh, that performance moved me, or I really loved that film and it meant so much to me and reminded me of my, that's different. That is a wonderful thing because we're only making the work for audiences. That's the most important part for me.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  So actually, I have thought a little bit about how am I going to cope with this now with Goodbye June coming out and reviews as a director? Because I think I might feel a sense of responsibility and duty for the other actors to just know that it's all okay, you know, everyone chill, you know, keeping everyone level and that sense again of wanting everyone to feel safe um and supported. I might feel that I need to just keep a bit of an eye, um, but I don't know, maybe I, maybe I will be able to apply my same, you know, personal survival strategy rule and not read anything. Um, it matters to us as the people behind the film.

• 34:04Speaker 05

  It matters to us enormously that people appreciate it and feel moved by it. And perhaps that it, perhaps that it might ignite conversation. Because I think that some of the most complicated relationships in our lives are with the ones we love the most.

• 34:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  Um, and so often, you know, we forget to talk about that. Um, and it's so much easier not to have those confronting conversations with a family member that you may need to have. It's so much easier to just avoid it.

• 34:36Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God.

• 34:36Speaker 05

  But actually, in the long run, is that right? You know, and I think the film really does dig in to that and ignite that conversation, which is interesting to me.

• 34:44Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God, without a doubt. I mean, there's obviously that very moving scene where you're sat with your sister on the floor and you, I don't want to give too much away, but you're having a real. Very needed, heart to heart, after years of not getting on, clashing heads.

• 34:56Speaker 05

  Well, not speaking.

• 34:57Fearne Cotton?

  Well, not speaking. And, you know, that is very commonplace, again, in many families, you know, where there's relatives that will not be in the same room as each other.

• 35:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:05Fearne Cotton?

  Would you say that you've applied that to real life? Because it is hard, like, you know, if I think about having really honest conversations with my mum or dad, that to me is way harder than probably sitting here with someone having a heart to heart that I don't really know.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, conversations with parents are something that I, I actually, as I got older, and I think because I became a parent quite young, when, uh, when I was only twenty five, um, I think I, I had a, I think I had an awareness from a younger age of just how important it was to communicate properly with my parents. I have a, I have a very, very close relationship with my father. Um, and, and, and we do really share everything and we have good old chats. Um, and he's absolutely brilliant at telling it how it is. So I'm very, very grateful to have that. Um, I mean, I just try and live my life, you know, with intention and integrity and to treat people the way I myself would hope to be treated in return.

• 36:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 05

  Life is really too short to be burdened with negativity and, you know, toxic influences. And I just, um, I just do my best to, you know, walk through the world, being a decent person. It, it matters. It matters to me a great deal.

• 36:20Fearne Cotton?

  It does.

• 36:21Speaker 05

  In every aspect, with family, with friends, with people I work with. It matters to me a lot.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 37:01Speaker 02

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• 37:31Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, this is Suzy Ruffel.

• 37:32Speaker 09

  And Maisie Adam.

• 37:33Fearne Cotton?

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 37:36Speaker 09

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 37:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 37:38Speaker 09

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 37:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.

• 37:50Speaker 09

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 37:52Fearne Cotton?

  Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, you just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 37:58Speaker 09

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 38:04Fearne Cotton?

  Do you care how much you're liked? Because I think that's a very different thing. And I like what you said earlier, the distinction between not caring what people think, but caring what people feel. I've never really landed on that before. And I think that helps in this conversation because I, in the last couple of years, have wanted to really combat that need to be liked. And I think because, I mean, my job is being myself. So if someone says they don't like you, it's you they don't like, rather than it being a character or sometimes even a skill set. And I think that used to feel like a huge burden and I'm unpicking it. But the tendency to people please was omnipresent and it informed so many of my decisions and the way that I move through the world. And I'm only now in my mid 40s going, I don't want to do that anymore.

• 38:49Fearne Cotton?

  I've got to care less if people like me. And if I need to say something that seems a bit blunt or forward, or I need to say no, quite frankly, then I've got to.

• 38:59Speaker 09

  But in what, in what context do you mean like? So are you talking about people that you meet?

• 39:05Fearne Cotton?

  Literally anyone. Because I think, you know, you're obviously globally well known and I'm absolutely not. But I think it is more heavily weighted when people assume things about you and go, oh yeah, I really, I really like that Kate Winslet. Oh, I really like that Fern Cotton. Oh, I don't like her. You know, people will instantly make a decision as to whether you're a likeable character. And that for me has been way too, it's been disproportionately heavy, I think.

• 39:28Speaker 09

  Fern, darling.

• 39:30Fearne Cotton?

  Give me the advice, let's go.

• 39:32Speaker 05

  You cannot control or dictate.

• 39:35Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 39:35Speaker 05

  The opinions and attitudes of other people.

• 39:38Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 39:39Speaker 05

  All you can do is live your best life.

• 39:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  Be a decent person.

• 39:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  And live and speak with integrity.

• 39:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 05

  And then you know that you can go asleep, go to sleep at night, knowing that you did your best today.

• 39:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  That's it.

• 39:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:54Speaker 05

  You can't please everybody.

• 39:56Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 39:56Speaker 05

  There will always be people who don't like your hair, don't like your face, don't like the sound of your voice, don't believe the things that you say. One thing for me that I know people assume is that I'm really well educated, well bred, well read, you know, probably had a bit of privilege. I was a little street scrapper. My parents had absolutely nothing. But people don't think that of me because I speak well. And I absolutely understand why people wouldn't think that. But there's a reason why I speak very well. And it's because my maternal grandmother went to Italia Conti, which is a very famous theatre school. She was in the same year as Noel Coward.

• 40:35Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 40:36Speaker 05

  So she was taught how to speak. She grew up above a pub on Charlotte Street. She was taught how to speak well, so when she had her six children, they copied the mother tongue. So when I was born, we copied our mother's tongue, which was to speak well. And so, and it drives me crazy that I would never be able to correct what people think, but I can't do anything about that.

• 41:00Fearne Cotton?

  No, you can't.

• 41:01Speaker 05

  I can't do anything about that at all.

• 41:02Fearne Cotton?

  You drive yourself mad.

• 41:03Speaker 05

  And you know what? It's okay. Let them think what they're gonna think.

• 41:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 05

  You can't live your life trying to change the opinions of other people. It doesn't work. You'll make yourself miserable.

• 41:12Fearne Cotton?

  When do you think you landed on that? Because obviously I think being thrown into the spotlight at a young age, you are fast-tracked to try and learn that one quickly if you want to survive Hollywood. And that might sound like quite a severe way of saying it.

• 41:25Speaker 05

  No, it's not.

• 41:26Fearne Cotton?

  You survive it or you don't.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  You're absolutely right. Surviving Hollywood, surviving, you know, an industry that can be cutthroat. Certainly when I was. Younger was very cutthroat and the mainstream media in the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely horrific to me, horrendous in a way that they should all be ashamed of and every single tabloid newspaper should have sent me a written apology, which they haven't done. Even that is disgraceful. It's just like, be courteous, just hold your hand up and say, we shouldn't have done that to you. Yep. You were a young girl. And I was scrutinized for how I looked because they decided I was fat. Well, what do you think that does to a person's self-esteem? What do you think that does to someone who probably was teetering on the verge of a horrible eating disorder

• 42:10Speaker 05

  at that age? Because I don't know any young actress at that time, in the early nineties, late eighties, early nineties, who wasn't battling with some form of issue around their physical selves, because that was simply what the press did. Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 05

  And I think I realized after a lot of upset and hurt and a feeling of wanting to just hide, actually, I think, for a while, I realized that I couldn't change any of it. I could just hope that it was going to quietly go away eventually. And I was very lucky because I had Mia, as I said, when I was so young, and that became my world. And so all that other shit, it just evaporated, thank God. And that's one thing now that I have been able to carry into my parenting of all of my children. I just tell them to be themselves, you know, tell them that they should only ever feel great and be kind

• 43:07Speaker 05

  to themselves because sometimes they have to hear from us as mothers, you are beautiful, you are wonderful. Now get out there and be yourself. Because guess what, Fern? If we aren't telling them these days, those things, they might not hear it from anywhere else. Yeah. Because the world is so critical and because of social media and because of likes and because of wanting to conform to some strange idea of perfection that God knows where it comes from. But young people on the whole are suffering with their mental health. They are chasing some ideal just because they want to feel good in who they are. So this sort of strange, slightly warped perception of

• 43:50Speaker 05

  Being included, counting for something, you know, a basic level of self-esteem is being really tampered with, I think.

• 43:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 43:58Speaker 05

  Amongst young people today. And I I find it really sad and and really very, very worrying. And that's why looking like a normal person, having a face that moves, having all of the wrinkles that my fifty years hopefully show, that matters a great deal because I again, I want to lead by example.

• 44:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 05

  I want for young women to look at my body, my face and go, oh, that's a normal one, you know. There might not be that many of us being the normal ones, but it's important and it matters. And I know that the women in my industry who I I admire the most of all, they're completely normal, gorgeous, beautiful women at the age of seventy, seventy-five, eighty.

• 44:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  And it's reassuring that we have those people to look up to.

• 44:42Fearne Cotton?

  Without doubt.

• 44:43Speaker 05

  We all want someone to look up to. And I think I think if if we can be decent women in today's world and be kind to ourselves and to others.

• 44:54Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 44:55Speaker 05

  I think it's important.

• 44:56Fearne Cotton?

  Being kind to yourself is so huge. Like, one of my best mates always says to me, if I'm, you know, she's a person I'll call in a crisis, or if I'm not dealing with something well, and she'll always say, okay, like, I'm listening to everything you're saying, and I and I hear it and I get it, just don't turn the gun on yourself.

• 45:12Speaker 05

  No.

• 45:13Fearne Cotton?

  And that always stays with me if I'm having a tough time, because I definitely, probably more so used to have the propensity to go, oh, yeah, I am a I'm a shitty person, I'm awful, and I will just regurgitate anything that I've heard about myself, especially when I was younger and, you know, exposed to press stories about me or whatever. Were there times where you didn't have that level of self-compassion, like your younger self?

• 45:37Speaker 05

  Hmm. Yes, I think I think when I was a teenager, and I'm talking like when I was, you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, because I was quite chubby then, like actually uncomfortable in a way that also didn't really add up, you know, I think hormonally, there's probably stuff going on. And yeah, I definitely had days when I'd look in the mirror and think, okay, I'm not going to look in the mirror again today, or I'd put a sheet over the door, the the door with the mirror on it, definitely things like that.

• 46:12Speaker 05

  I don't think I ever felt ashamed of myself, but definitely self-conscious. And I was teased as a child, as a younger child at primary school, for being a bit on the stocky side. Um, children can be cruel to other children and uh, and that, that, that kills me actually. Um, it's terrible because an environment in a school classroom can really make or break a child's life in school and school should be somewhere where you feel looked after, supported and educated. Um, and it should be a place where you make friends and people who are gonna have your back.

• 46:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  Uh, and I didn't have that, actually. I know it sounds like a bit of a sob story, but I didn't really have that. So when I look back on my childhood and I, you know, sort of think, oh, who, who are the friends I've got from, you know, from childhood, from those days. Actually, I've got a nice handful of really great friends who I met much later in my teenage years. Um, a few people from secondary school, actually like two. And uh, and then from when I started working, when I went out into the world and I was cast in a, in a film when I was seventeen years old, I started to really make great friends who became the keepers.

• 47:31Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  Um, and are still a part of my life today.

• 47:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so important.

• 47:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:35Fearne Cotton?

  Have you ever done that thing where you kind of go back and you, and you mentally say, I'm gonna embrace that little fourteen-year-old me and I'm gonna, I'm gonna give her all the love that she didn't necessarily feel she got then.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  I certainly got a huge amount of love from my family. That's, that's one thing I will say. And my mum and dad, in spite of how little we had, were always absolutely brilliant at, you know, saying, oh, the sun's out, let's go for a drive, you know, let's jump in a river or climb a tree. Or my parents were extraordinary at encouraging us to be in the outside world, which I think is. So important, especially today. Um, so I felt the love from my family. But yeah, if I was to go back, yeah, I definitely, it's interesting, actually, before I turned forty, the night before I turned forty, ten years ago, I actually had a dream where I walked into a classroom and saw my younger self.

• 48:26Fearne Cotton?

  Whoa.

• 48:27Speaker 05

  It was really extraordinary. Um, you're probably gonna get loads of messages from, you know, holistic practitioners about what that actually meant.

• 48:35Fearne Cotton?

  Some picket.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  But I really did. I walked into a classroom as myself. I was a grown up. I was poised. I was graceful. And I was just going to see all these children and I was sat there. And it was incredible.

• 48:46Fearne Cotton?

  That's so moving.

• 48:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was very moving. And I went and I, and I sat with my younger self. Oh, God, I mustn't get emotional now, because it was such an amazing dream. But I said to my younger self, it's okay, slow down. It's okay. It was bizarre.

• 49:01Fearne Cotton?

  I get it.

• 49:02Speaker 05

  And very clear to me. And I don't particularly remember dreams or even write them down. I've never written down a dream. But it was so vivid. Um, and I do remember thinking, oh, yeah, maybe I can slow down. Maybe I can just chill for a bit and enjoy the things that I've done and feel good about those achievements. It's quite hard to take a moment and go, oh, I did well.

• 49:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:24Speaker 05

  Well done me.

• 49:25Fearne Cotton?

  Do you still find that now? Because I am beyond guilty of that. I find it terrifying to think that there's even a week where I'm not incredibly busy trying to juggle ten different jobs. And I, and I kind of know the root of all of my things. Like, oh, yeah, I, I know why I'm feeling that fear again, that everything's, it's all gonna go. Everything's gonna, and I won't have a job and it's all gonna disappear. I still have a bit of that going on all these years later. Do you still have that drive?

• 49:49Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, no, I still have, I still have all of that. Um, and partly because I always want to be doing this job. So I never want people to not keep inviting me back to the party, because I really like being at the party. It's great fun. Um, no, I definitely think, I definitely think as women and in this country, I don't know that we're necessarily very good at telling each other, my God, well done. I was so impressed and proud of you for doing that. I don't think we're very good at that. And I also don't think we're very good at saying openly, I was really, really proud of myself for that thing I did, because, you know, I, I was up against it, but I bloody pulled it off.

• 50:21Fearne Cotton?

  It's very un-British.

• 50:22Speaker 05

  Very un-British. But, but I do that. And in the last ten years in particular, I've been very consciously doing that. And I think it's because I want to make sure that my children. Hear that and emulate that and know that it's okay to say, I was, I was proud of myself with how I handled that situation. Or how I spoke to that person or the job that I did. Um, I think it's important to show a bit of, you know, self, self-love and gratitude.

• 50:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:48Speaker 05

  In, in that way and, and a bit of self-pride.

• 50:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and subsequently rest and feel all right about it.

• 50:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, that I do find hard to do, the resting and feeling all right about it.

• 50:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:58Speaker 05

  You know, I always think, why am I sitting down? I need to stand up again.

• 51:00Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 51:01Speaker 05

  I know.

• 51:01Fearne Cotton?

  So bad.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's terrible.

• 51:03Fearne Cotton?

  Even having a bath, I'm like, oh, I've been in here a little bit too long. I need to get out and do something, clean the cupboard out.

• 51:06Speaker 05

  You have baths? You have time for baths?

• 51:08Fearne Cotton?

  Very rarely. I'm talking like once every two weeks. I'm like.

• 51:12Speaker 05

  I can't sit there. I can't sit there. It all takes too long, things to do.

• 51:15Fearne Cotton?

  What, even running it?

• 51:16Speaker 05

  Oh, God, it takes too long.

• 51:18Fearne Cotton?

  Really like, oh, come on. Now, now the water's gone cold. Now it's gone cold. Ned, the water's gone cold again. So I know the answer to this question is not going to be in the bath. Where is your happy place?

• 51:32Speaker 05

  No, it's not in the bath. An ice bath, different matter.

• 51:35Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, are you into the ice bath thing?

• 51:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, God, yeah. It's, it's so fantastic.

• 51:39Fearne Cotton?

  Is that a daily thing?

• 51:41Speaker 05

  Uh, no, it's not really daily, just because I can't always figure out a way to pull it off daily. Um, certainly cold water, very cold water. The colder the better. It makes you feel fantastic. And it's impossible, it's impossible to regret it. You can never regret getting in the cold water, even for thirty seconds.

• 51:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Um, I'm not sure I would say that that's my happy place. My real happy place is, there's a couple of different ones really, but quite honestly, anywhere where it's me, Ned and the kids. And it's just us and we're all in the same space. That is somewhere I do feel incredibly happy. Another place that I feel very, very happy is walking through a, like a snowy forest.

• 52:30Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:31Speaker 05

  There's something about the stillness and the silence and the beauty of it. That almost gives me hope in the time before this time. And what I mean by that is not.

• 52:46Speaker 05

  Neanderthal times and cavemen and et cetera, not that at all. But just the time before this digital age, when things were simpler and life was quieter. And I do have an iPhone. I still grapple with the fact that I have one. I'm talking very seriously about getting rid of it in the new year. But even I, and I don't have social media, I do find myself just scrolling too long on that news page, you know? Why am I playing wordscapes? Why am I like, you know, what, what, why? I don't want to be staring at this stuff. I don't want it at all.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  And so there's something about the stillness of being in snow, in nature, in that way. Not walking alone, always with somebody else. I love conversation. And also, long walks with my family, with my kids, those conversations have always been fantastic. And a really big part of our lives is where we share a lot of creativity and story ideas. Joe would share a lot of his ideas for Goodbye June on long walks together. And my kids have tested me on lines on long walks, you know? And now the same thing happens with them.

• 53:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 05

  And so there's, there's something about being outside, walking,

• 54:07Speaker 05

  that is very special to me and makes me happy. And it doesn't matter what the weather's doing, but preferably cold.

• 54:13Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 54:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:14Fearne Cotton?

  I love a good old ramble.

• 54:16Speaker 05

  Oh, it's heaven.

• 54:16Fearne Cotton?

  There's nothing better. It's gorgeous. Well, I'm so thrilled to have spoken to you today. And how exciting that Goodbye June is going to be released into the world for everybody to see.

• 54:27Speaker 05

  I know Joe and I are like, oh my God, people are going to see it.

• 54:29Fearne Cotton?

  It's so exciting.

• 54:30Speaker 05

  It's quite, it's, it's, it's a very exciting and, and bizarre feeling. And I do feel proud of it. And I feel proud of ourselves. I feel proud as a woman to have done this. It sort of feels like it marks the beginning of maybe a new chapter in my life. And makes me feel like, yeah, woohoo, bring on my 50s, baby. It's, yeah, it, it feels exciting.

• 54:54Fearne Cotton?

  Too. Right. Well, look, good luck with all of it. And thank you so much for today.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  Pleasure. Thank you for having me.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

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• 56:12Speaker 09

  It's time. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween!

• 56:20Speaker 10

  And you guys know we don't do Halloween by halves. Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Ben, we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 56:33Speaker 10

  We've got a spooky hotline caller. An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert. And your tarot card die levers. Listen to our Halloween specials. Search for The Girl's Bathroom.