SEAL Team 6 Operator | Trey Lindsey | Ep. 349

A 20-year Navy veteran, Trey Lindsey served 18 years as a Navy SEAL, including 13 with SEAL Team 6, undertaking numerous combat deployments. He's now the CEO of Gallowglass Guardian Group, providing tactical and security consulting for law enforcement, military, and civilians. Trey is also a Louisiana POST certified and NTOA instructor. Find Trey here: website: http://3gstrategicconsultants.com Swag Store: https://www.3gmerch.com Knife Company Website: tsgblades.com (Should be live within a week or two) Email: [email protected] Instagram- gallowglass3g / theetl3 / tsgbaldes Strategic Partner- Do A Little Good Foundation (https://dalg.org) Jacquelyn (Jacki) Read Athena Defense Group website: https://www.athenadefensegroup.com Instagram- Athena Defense Group -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Sponsors: GhostBed⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 10% off! For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics... JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured __________________________________ Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 Start 01:15 Childhood dream sparked by Rogue Warrior. 04:58 BUD/S taught "eat an elephant one bite at a time." 10:16 Unique entry to SEAL Team 4's deployment. 16:03 First deployment's focus: direct action raids in Fallujah. 34:58 Joining SEAL Team 6: A natural progression. 40:24 Key role in Jessica Buchanan hostage rescue. 1:11:08 Post-military mission: enhancing law enforcement safety. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:31Speaker 03

  Special Operations.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  Covert Ops. Espionage. The Team House. With your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park.

• 1:51Jack Murphy?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode 349 of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy, on tonight with our guest, Trey Lindsey. Trey served in the Navy, first in law enforcement, before he went over to SEAL Team 4 and then SEAL Team 6. Served on deployments around the world and now works as a training organization, a knife company, involved in law enforcement. And also, he's the guy that I end up working for once or twice a year. So that's how we know each other and just know him to be an all-around great guy. And we're really happy to have you here on the show today.

• 2:28Speaker 05

  I appreciate it, brother. Thanks. Thanks again for having me on.

• 2:30Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, man. So start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about how you grew up and how that took you towards the Navy.

• 2:37Speaker 05

  No, absolutely. So I grew up in a small town in rural northeast Missouri called Canton. It's about two hours north of St. Louis. And I joined the Navy nine days out of high school and people often ask me like, hey, why did you, you know, how long did you, you know, before you wanted to become a SEAL or this and that before you actually did it? And for me, I was 12 years old. I read the book Rogue Warrior by Richard Marcinco, the first commanding officer of SEAL Team Six, and I was hooked after that. So I read it in between the summer of my sixth and seventh grade years. And so, yeah, after that, that's all I wanted to do in my, my adult life growing up. So I joined the Navy nine days out of high school and then the rest is history at that point.

• 3:13Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So you went in first, you know, before special operations, you went as a Navy police officer? I mean, tell us about that.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Yeah. So again, I wanted to be a SEAL, but I guess I always like kind of joke now that my recruiter got me pretty good. So after nine 11, the mastered arm rate, the Navy cops, they were like a critical source rating. So I had to go to my first duty station for a year before I was able to screen for special programs. So, I mean, it all worked out in the end and kind of like I'll, I'll cover later on in the podcast, you know, like this really how being a Navy cop mastered arms has helped me a lot with what I'm doing post military life. I never dreamt it would actually come, come full circle the way it has, but it's, it's funny how things just work themselves out like that.

• 3:53Jack Murphy?

  Tell us about what that, you know, profession actually entailed that you did for a year before going to the teams.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  Yeah. So it was very heavy in physical security. So obviously, you know, nine 11 had already happened. I joined in, you know, 2002, right out of high school. So Afghanistan was already underway, but it wasn't Iraq did not, you know, the invasion of Iraq didn't happen until March of 2003. So a little known fact, I think the majority of the initial shock and awe ordinance that was, that was dropped during the initial, initial push, initial invasion, actually came from one of the, one of the duty stations I was in physical security of, you know, at the time in the, in the southwestern Pacific. So again, it was just kind of multiple, you know, multiple shifts, you know, we were pulling, you know, constantly when they were bringing ordinance to the aircraft, you know,

• 4:39Speaker 05

  the, some of the aircraft over the air force base, but also on some of the carrier battle groups that were pulling into port. They would pretty much, you know, have all these, you know, weapon systems stockpiled and they would, they would, you know. Take off, take off from there. And then, once the initial invasion happened, it was just a steady flow of that. So that very heavy in physical security. Some, you know, law enforcement act aspect of things, you still have, you know, you know, things you're dealing with on base, but really was, you know, a little different than your typical law enforcement job that, you know, in the, in the civilian world that, you know, the men and women, you know, who are serving the communities are sworn to protect have to deal with.

• 5:15Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, it's super important stuff when you're talking about these huge ordinance facilities. And we're all aware now of some of these like sabotage campaigns that are across Europe. And you get one bad actor in there and the whole thing goes up.

• 5:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, very, very strategic, you know, location.

• 5:33Jack Murphy?

  Um, and so you get a taste for Navy life here. Uh, but your dream, since reading Rogue Warrior is still to SEAL teams.

• 5:41Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 5:43Jack Murphy?

  Tell us about, you know, getting into BUDs and kind of that experience.

• 5:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I was fortunate enough where I was at, there was actually a naval special warfare unit located over there. So I was able to do all my screen, you know, testing and like it'll a little bit of an interview. It really wasn't too terribly much of one to go to BUDs initially, but was able to get all my paperwork squared away, pass a PT test initially to get my package in. Then when I got orders, I did one more PT test 30 days prior to me transferring. So from there, yeah, that pretty much takes me to, to Coronado, California, you know, in the springtime of 2004.

• 6:17Jack Murphy?

  How'd that treat you?

• 6:19Speaker 05

  I mean, the BUDs is definitely an experience where no one wants, everyone wants to relive it again. So I mean, looking at it, you know, as a whole, which is completely overwhelming. But when I teach a lot of like the leadership and team building courses now, I talk about, you know, just how to like, you know, how to eat elephant one bite at a time. And I always like to use the BUDs analogy. You pretty much take it one evolution at a time, make it to your next meal. And then just, you know, keep, uh, you know, always put out, be a good teammate. And then just, you know, never, uh, you know, never, never forget what the end state is, the end goal is. So I started with class 252. Uh, like I said, checked in May of 2004, was fortunate enough to make it straight through that same class. So I got to, um, I made through like airborne school and we still went to the Army airborne school and then SQT and I checked into

• 7:02Speaker 05

  SEAL Team Four in the fall of 2005.

• 7:06Jack Murphy?

  So, uh, okay, before we move on, favorite BUDs story?

• 7:11Speaker 05

  Oh gosh. So yeah, so one of the uh, one of the uh, with the, the leadership and team building stuff I'm doing now. So I had this acronym, uh, you know, I kind of, uh, you know, I heard one evening when I was on third phase, it's called FITFO. It's in spans for figure it, uh, you know, you, you know what, uh, you know, fit phone mentality. So in the backstory of that is, so I was on watch, you know, 20 years old, uh, you know, in third phase at San Clemente Island. And, uh, I mean, looking back, I was, I was such a dumbass at the time, such an immature kid still, you know, even always, you know, getting ready to graduate buds. But anyway, so I'm on watch one evening on the quarter deck when the classes, you know, rest of the class is asleep. We're only getting maybe four, five, six hours at the, you know, very, very most.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  Most of the time it's about three to four hours of sleep per night. And so anyways, I'm on watch and I get a call, uh, from the, uh, from instructor lounge in the quarter deck area. The instructors had their own, you know, barracks, you know, earning on birthing areas, you know, where they're kind of lounge here, where they can kind of take a little break from students when the work was over. And so I get a call and it's the senior, senior instructor. So, uh, again, he starts, you know, kind of proceeding to give me like an order of like, hey, bring so many glasses of orange juice. You know, some glass of cranberry juice, you know, like ice. He starts having as a whole grocery list of items he's, he's wanting to bring down there. And again, they're, they're making cocktails, of course, you know, so yeah, no, they're doing, so having, it's having some adult beverages. So again, just me being a dumbass kid, you know, at 20 years old at the time.

• 8:33Speaker 05

  I started just coming up with the dumbest questions you could possibly, possibly think of at the time. And it was as the, one of the senior chiefs, the same rank I retired as. And so it was a senior instructor on the, uh, on the island at the time. And again, I started asking him like, well, well, senior, like where, where, where am I going to find those things at, you know, I'm on watch, should I have someone relieve me? And he stops me mid-sentence and he says, hey, look, motherfucker, you better figure it the fuck out or else. If you best adopt that mindset, if you want to have any success in this community whatsoever, click. So again, in that moment, not want to be the reason the class was woken up and uh, put in the surf zone for surf torture. We can talk about surf torture a little bit later, but what did I do in that moment? I figured it the fuck out real quick. Let me tell you. So again,

• 9:18Speaker 05

  I was running around scrambling, trying to find stuff as, as fast as I could and get it over there. And so I finally got it all put together, not, you know, ran it down in the instructor lounge, knocked on the door, you know, stated my name and rank and what I was there for and dropped it off. And he's like, get the fuck out of here. Go back to the quarter deck. So I ran back and then enough, enough said, but again, as funny as that story was at the time, looking back still to this day is probably one of the biggest life lessons learned I have. It's basically the problem solving mindset, like, you know, figuring things out. So, and that was 100% true as far as you have to have the fit for the figure it the fuck out mentality to, you know, have any success in the SEAL team, let alone just in life in general. I'm still using the fit for mentality to this day as far as getting, you know, you know, getting my, keeping my training company up and running, getting our knife design company, uh, you know, uh, up, up, we got our initial release done and

• 10:03Speaker 05

  also the, some of collateral duties I have in the, the law enforcement world, get, get my Texas commission on law enforcement license as well. So again, you, we could, we could spend, you know, hours upon hours talking about Bud stories. That's probably one of my, one of my favorite ones is as far as what still sticks to me to this day, one of the, one of the life lessons learned.

• 10:19Jack Murphy?

  Oh, I gotta ask you, you know, follow up. Where the hell did you find cranberry juice and orange juice and all this?

• 10:26Speaker 05

  A good place for it, probably the galley, the chow hall.

• 10:28Jack Murphy?

  Okay, okay.

• 10:29Speaker 05

  There are a couple of things that had to go elsewhere to find it, but it was, uh, yeah, it was pretty, it was more streamlined than I originally was worried it was going to be, so.

• 10:38Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and, and then you mentioned surf torture?

• 10:41Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. So surf torture, all that is, it's just, you know, it's, it's a means where the instructors can take a little break and they just let the elements do the work, you know, for the class as far as trying to get, uh, get, get guys to quit. It's basically, it's an evolution where you just lay in the, uh, lay in the, uh, you know, Pacific Ocean off, you know, the, the Bud's beach or wherever you're at. If you're out in San Clemente Island and again, like the water is never warm out there for folks that have been to Southern California. You know, I was a summer hell week, so maybe it was a little bit warmer, but I think mid sixties was the warmest the water ever did get on us. So again, just again, it's just, uh, just a timeframe where the instructors can take a little break and just let the elements do the work and get guys to quit if they want to.

• 11:19Jack Murphy?

  Get that attrition rate down.

• 11:21Speaker 05

  Exactly, exactly.

• 11:23Jack Murphy?

  All right. So I won't make you tell Bud stories all night here, Trey.

• 11:27Speaker 05

  We'll have to do a separate one just for Bud stories, man. I got plenty of them.

• 11:30Jack Murphy?

  I know. I feel like we all have more stories about selection than like, you know, Oliver Stone has about Vietnam, you know?

• 11:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:41Jack Murphy?

  So you check into SEAL Team Four. Tell us about that experience.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it was a little bit different than what other guys, other brand new guys had experienced just because Team Four, SEAL Team Four was deployed at the time. So as me and the rest of my classmates from Bud's and SQT, I mean, there was literally like, I think, two SEALs. There was like a chief, you know, that was in like the mastered arms shack, kind of doing administrative work. And there was maybe one other guy. So we got formed out to trade at the training attachment on the East Coast with the different cells. So I ended up going to the one of the assault cells, you know, on CQB and like in the, and also MOUT, the military operations, urban train, SOCS, special operations, and urban combat. So I got to do several trips with them there, seeing other SEAL platoons from other East Coast

• 12:27Speaker 05

  teams go through. So again, obviously, when we got back to, you know, we checked back in, you know, to Team Four after the guys got back from deployment, it was, you know, the new guy games all over again at that point, like we figured it was going to be. But it was really, it was really interesting. I think overall, looking back, it was a good experience, just getting to know different guys from your team and, you know, being a kind of role players, op four for them, and just kind of actually doing some of the runs with them as well. So that really, at least for me, that definitely helped out, just kind of get a jump start on at least the assault CQB portion.

• 12:58Speaker 06

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• 13:13Speaker 07

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• 14:52Jack Murphy?

  A little bit of OJT before you really started.

• 14:56Speaker 05

  No, exactly, exactly. So it was good. It was real good overall.

• 15:01Jack Murphy?

  So the guys come back and at what point do you get put on a platoon?

• 15:06Speaker 05

  So almost immediately. We were, we were pretty much, we're going to be slated. I knew I was going to three troop in a, in a fox trap platoon. So, sorry, echo platoon, echo platoon. I ended up switching on my second go around. But yeah, so we knew what platoon, what, you know, troop you're going to. It was called task units at the time. We, it transferred over to troops right after that. But Again, looking back, it was, you know, like the guys came back in like late fall timeframes. We had a couple of months of, of kind of like, you know, the pro dead professional development. We didn't have a whole lot going on. And after the first of the year, we start our U L T, our unit level training. So we were hitting the road early, you know, you know, of 2006, you know, we were, uh, we were, you know, going to Fort Chaffey,

• 15:50Speaker 05

  you know, and other places, you know, it's in our ground mobility out of the, out in the Nevada area, one of our training sites. So it was just a nonstop and it's, I mean, still to this day, I still have a crazy work schedule, you know, with what I'm doing. And kind of people tell me or ask me like, how do you, how do you like, you know, travel so much? It's like, it's all I've known since 2005. I've never been in one location more than like six months out of the year. So, uh, it's just a constant, a constant flow. So I guess I'm just, you know, used to it. So that's all I know now. So I don't know what I would do if I was, you know, in someplace for several months straight. I know if I was home here, I would absolutely drive my wife insane, you know?

• 16:26Jack Murphy?

  I got, want to ask you, you know, like what type of dudes land on a SEAL platoon? Like who are some of these guys? You know, you don't have to mention anyone by name if you don't want to, but like what, what are these personalities like?

• 16:37Speaker 05

  I mean, it's definitely, um, type A personalities across the board, you know, that's kind of be expected, you know? You have to be, you know, a type A to have any success in the SEAL teams. Really like everyone had, you know, somewhat of an athletic background, some more than others. Definitely everyone had like a huge sense of patriotism camaraderie and just wanted to really be a member of the, of the team. Look down to the, uh, individual shooter level, the platoon level, you know, task unit troop level across the board. So I just, like I say, highly motivated, very, uh, for most part, you know, very trustworthy guys. And, uh, just guys that you'd want to, you know, go down range with, you know, serving your country, you know, and in harms way with.

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• 19:47Jack Murphy?

  And I mean, at what point did you find out where you guys were deploying to?

• 19:52Speaker 05

  It wasn't till, I want to say probably springtime. We deployed the fall of 2006. So yeah, my first one was to Fallujah, Iraq. So it was a, you know, a little, your average, you know, a little over six months deployment. We had a condensed, you know, ULT and ProDev and also sit, you know, squad integration training. Just because of like kind of the deployment cycle. Like after that, we went back to like the, the east and west coast teams went back to a, I think a two year, like you know, every six months. It was got back from deployments. It was ProDev, then ULT, unit level training, then all kinds of squadron integration training, but still called that and then deployment. So, but we only, we were on 18 month cycles. It was just that much, that much faster.

• 20:35Jack Murphy?

  So you guys got to Fallujah, if my chronology is right, a little bit after the Marines went in there and kind of like cleaned the place out.

• 20:44Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 20:45Jack Murphy?

  So what, what was it like when you arrived in Fallujah? Sort of what was the atmospherics?

• 20:50Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, the guys that were already in country coming to convoy to pick us up, you know, the, the Humvees and other, other armored equipment. Got hit by IED and our, our lead turret gunner got, you know, fragged pretty good from it. So that was kind of a, it was kind of like, hey, you know, all the new guys, welcome, welcome to Iraq. You know, you're in the war zone now. This, we're, we're playing for keeps. So that was definitely, you know, not that I didn't, I wasn't already thinking that to begin with. But yeah, it definitely kind of was a realization immediately, right when we, right when we pretty much hit the deck saying like, hey, you're, you know, the guy in the airfield had already, you know, gotten word, you know, someone from our, our joint operations center had like, let them know that, hey, like a convoy is going to be late because they got hit with an IED. And they had to do a, you know, a CASA back bird, you know, casualty evacuation bird for our lead turret gunner.

• 21:35Jack Murphy?

  And what was the mission like when you guys got there?

• 21:39Speaker 05

  So we were, we were had a Iraqi partner force. We were training, but it was mostly direct action raids we were doing. So they wanted us to have, you know, so many Iraqis they would take, we would take out with them or take, take out with us. And so they had like a couple of guys doing the training of them and another guy, the rest of the guys were doing operations, you know, some of, some like kind of sniper over on stuff. It was mostly like it was the direct raid, the, the kill capture operations we were doing.

• 22:03Jack Murphy?

  Any of that kind of stand out in your mind?

• 22:06Speaker 05

  Um, there were several of them uh that definitely uh definitely, you know, could have got a little, little, little sporty, a little spicy, but it wasn't until after I left. Uh, because I was on the first rip bird out, the relief from place bird. And then so it was like probably about half of our uh platoon or half of our troop. Uh, other guys from team 10 and contingent that were going to be ripping, uh ripping out with us. Uh, so they, uh, they went out on target with the rest of our guys. And then a good buddy of mine was killed uh that, you know, evening, literally like a day after we left. So that one, I, you know, I talk about that every so often a little bit. That's, that one still kind of stings to this day as far as, you know, because we hit this so many compounds over the uh, over the course of that six months.

• 22:47Speaker 05

  And then sure enough, you know, we lose, we lose a guy on one of the last ops, you know, of the uh, of the deployment. Let alone with not even like, you know, almost, you know, almost half the guys being gone, not there for it either. So, uh, you know, kind of looking back, I say, if I could have, uh, I've told this story before as well. If I could have one redo in my entire career, I would go back and ask not to be on, you know, the first rip bird flight out. Because again, I totally understand like my, like my leadership's point of view, because I would, I would definitely would wanted to, I wanted to stay. But I was going to be going to sniper school, you know, within like, you know, less than a month of getting back and then straight into lead breacher explosive breaching school. So my professional development, I was going to be gone for a good portion of it. So, um, ended up, ended up, you know, taking, you know, you know, being one of my first deployment with a busy pro dev.

• 23:31Speaker 05

  Being one of the first guys that had rip out, you know, which again, it was about half of us. But if I could have, you know, saying, if I could have one redo over again, I would, uh, turn back time and, and make sure I was on that op for when everything went down.

• 23:42Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that sucks, man. It always seems like it's the last damn mission on the deployment.

• 23:46Speaker 05

  Yep, exactly. So, yeah, we had a guy, you know, you know, you get fragged pretty good, you know, from the IED first, uh, you know, first, you know, one of the, I think maybe the the first night we were in country, I think it was the second convoy they had did overall. And then, yeah, like in the direct action raid, they were going after a group of, uh, Al Qaeda militants that shot down an American helicopter the previous day. So it was just, just bad. But hey, you know, I'm bringing lessons learned, life lessons learned at that point.

• 24:12Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, man. And so you get back and go to the sniper course. Is that the one in Indiana?

• 24:18Speaker 05

  Yes, correct. Yeah. So some of it's, you know, they do like the east and west coast will do like their, again, it's different now. I think it's all like one big school, but like, you know, pick like photo image capture. And they had like the scout, it's almost like a, you know, scout sniper, like sniper light. And then if you pass both those, then you would go on to the full, you know, sniper training pipeline in Indiana.

• 24:39Jack Murphy?

  And what was the sniper course like?

• 24:42Speaker 05

  It was definitely challenging. I mean, I don't see the, the shooting itself was, was, was, you know, hard at times. It was the easiest. It was like some of the stalking, just the overall like field craft, you know, I was, you know, born and raised, like I said, in rural northeast Missouri. So I spent plenty of time out in the field, you know, hunting and doing just like my grandparents, you know, farm they had in rural northeast Missouri, close to where I grew up. But it just the overall like field craft and like being, you know, you know, covert clandestine about things too, is probably one of the biggest things. Again, the shooting stuff was, was challenging by all means. But I'd say like the actual field craft for me, especially some of the stalking was what I, you know, it was the most challenging.

• 25:24Jack Murphy?

  And at that time, were you guys still like building out the big bear suits, the ghillie suits and?

• 25:30Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. You had your ghillie shawl, your ghillie, ghillie suit, you know, had, you had several different options depending on what you wanted to wear. So, again, like we were fortunate enough, I was going through in the summer timeframe. So we had like, you know, thick vegetation. It was a whole lot easier than guys that had to go through in the, the winter time with no foliage or anything else. Of course, we got to worry about poison ivy at that point in time. I think, you know, probably two thirds of the class ended up getting poison ivy really bad. But again, just the price of doing business. It's the nature of the beast. So.

• 25:58Jack Murphy?

  And biggest takeaway from sniper school, aside from stalking, I guess?

• 26:03Speaker 05

  Tactical patience. Definitely you will learn tactical patience there, you know, in an extreme way. So you're, you're, you know, doing your stock, you're in your hide site, you're just waiting for that right moment to, when you need to, when you need to execute, when you need to do it, do an engagement. So I'd say, yeah, definitely tactical patience was the overall biggest lessons learned and theme from going to sniper school.

• 26:25Jack Murphy?

  And then I think you mentioned, was there a master breacher course?

• 26:30Speaker 05

  Yes, I went to like lead breacher course after that. Again, like guys were saying like, hey, that making some of the older guys, that make no sense, you know, because usually like the snipers were doing their own thing, breachers would do their own thing. But again, I was just kind of dual trained where I could be the lead breacher on an, on an op, or I could, you know, be a, the sniper role, doing the sniper overwatch. Or some of the, uh, you know, kind of like longer containment, you know, operations we would do.

• 26:51Jack Murphy?

  How, how'd you like the breacher course?

• 26:53Speaker 05

  It, it was fun. I mean, explosives are always fun, you know, no matter what. So again, really, I liked the, the breaching aspect is the problem solving. Cause again, you know, just you, you truly learn to kind of really like be able to like read the door. When you like to, you know, you do like your, you know, calculation of what's charged, you know, or charges you need ahead of time. You know, have a, you know, a specific, uh, you know, SOPs for one, and sometimes a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of leeway on what exactly you could use. So it was definitely kind of the ultimate, you know, problem solving in the moment. Figuring out what's charge you use, how much explosive net weight you need to have, and then even what type of explosives. And kind of going from, uh, from there, just, you know, using your, uh, using your tradecraft, you know, when you're out on, out on operations.

• 27:34Jack Murphy?

  A- at this point in time, I, I guess we're still in like 2006, 2007 around then.

• 27:41Jack Murphy?

  Were, was the training starting to move more towards like urban environment to sort of simulate the environment you guys were going into? Or were you still like trying to blow down trees to build an APT and that kind of thing?

• 27:52Speaker 05

  It, it was definitely heavy in the, uh, the urban aspect of things, but we still never went away from the field craft, you know, aspect as, as well though. Especially what happened in, uh, you know, a summer of 2005 in Afghanistan with the, uh, you know, the, uh, the lone survivor incident with the, uh, you know, the, you know, the operation, uh, red wings on that one. So, um, yeah, again, always lessons learned on that one. Cause yeah, we're doing a lot of direct action raids and more built up areas. But we still could find ourselves out in a rural environment or even a rural into an urban environment, uh, and getting an engagement there. So. Definitely, uh, definitely had to be proficient in all aspects of the operation you could come across.

• 28:30Jack Murphy?

  So you're, you're moving along at a pretty steady clip here as a young SEAL, uh, going from being, doing your first platoon, sniper, breacher, and then going back to your platoon and, and going through the whole train up cycle again?

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, correct. And then actually I did an augment with SEAL Team Eight, uh, as well, uh, to Iraq for a little bit. We were doing some of the, uh, counter-Iranian insurgency stuff, you know, back during that timeframe though. Um, yeah, I ended up doing a little bit of an augment with them. It was a good experience and then, uh, deployed again, uh, the fall of 2008 to, uh, back to Iraq and, you know, it was, um, different, uh, different troop than what I was assigned to initially. But there was like a, a contingent of guys from our troop that were going to go augment, uh, the guys of their troop. But then our troop was in, uh, kind of doing the, the UCOM deployment. So that was, that was actually, again, it all worked out. It would have been nice to stay longer in the, uh, in the war zone and get more experience.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  But, you know, being able to do some of the stuff throughout, uh, throughout Europe and really kind of get, get ready for our selection course for, uh, for the command coming up. You know, I started in 2009.

• 29:32Jack Murphy?

  So tell us a little bit about the counter-Iran mission because that's a, that's an interesting one.

• 29:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. So it's, I mean, obviously Al Qaeda of Iraq, you know, they were the, they were the big, you know, big ones here going after. But they just had such a negative Iranian influence, especially some of the areas where we were working around, like the, you know, the eastern, eastern side of, uh, Iraq and also even, uh, Baghdad itself. So I know a lot of guys who did, uh, you know, operations in Sotter City, you know, was pretty much, you know, the, the, the slums of Baghdad. I mean, most, a lot of guys that didn't even work around Baghdad are familiar with Sotter City. Uh, and it really was some of the, um, some of the, uh, the, the explosives, it's like they're, they're, um, you know, they were coming up with, the Iranians were coming up with specifically designed to defeat some of our armor systems. So we were, we were on hot and heavy, you know, doing the counter-Iranian, you know, insurgency mission.

• 30:20Jack Murphy?

  So you guys were trying to like disrupt the IED networks?

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Yes, that was the biggest thing, you know, we got a lot of like the financiers and like the senior leaders. But again, it's just, you know, the more, the more, you know, operations we would do is pretty, it's pretty crazy to see just how, how some of these senior leaders, you know, that are the counter Iranian or the Iranian insurgency were tied in with the current government in Iraq. It was a sticky situation all around, depending on, depending on what, you know, part of the country you're in.

• 30:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. How did the politics interfere with your operation? I mean, sort of the, the local politics, like, did they try to like shut down some of these missions? Or did you run into that?

• 30:58Speaker 05

  They, they tried to a little bit, but it seemed like we were definitely were, we were insulated from, from a lot of that aspect of things. Just because it was, it was so important at the time and like Iraq had already been kind of spiraling out of control for, for a while from probably, you know, 2005 on and then, you know, even if you want to call it stabilized, it didn't really didn't stabilize till like, you know, 2010, 2011. And then obviously during the troop withdrawal, the whole world saw that under the, uh, under the current administration at the time when they are going to pull everyone out. And then like little ISIS just came in there and started wrecking shop. And then sure enough, contingent of, uh, special operations were right back in there. You know, saving, since, you know, you know, saving what was left of Iraq at the time.

• 31:39Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and then you mentioned, uh, going over to European Command.

• 31:45Jack Murphy?

  Uh, what, what were you guys up to over there?

• 31:47Speaker 05

  So we were doing a lot of like just training operations more than anything. It's like bilats, like bilateral exchanges, um, other, uh, I can't, can't remember some of the acronyms. But it was basically like working with our, our NATO allies over there. So I went to Poland for, for a solid month, you know, worked with the Polish Grom, awesome, awesome dudes. And I went to Estonia for three weeks after that, you know, within a matter of a couple of days. So, uh, again, really good experience. And, uh, you always have, you know, like your, you know, your embassy evacuation that could, could come up, you know, you could go out of there, well, among other operations. But really get more than anything focusing on training. And then for me, just getting, you know, making sure I was in good shape and right, you know, mindset, getting ready to start the, uh, selection process for the command coming up.

• 32:28Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. What was it, uh, what was it like working with some of the NATO partners? Like, I mean, Grom is known to be very professional. The, the Baltic states also are known to be pretty hardcore.

• 32:38Speaker 05

  Yep. No, like I would, I would deploy with the Grom guys in a heartbeat, you know, and I was, uh, you know, kind of fast forward years later, I did a little, uh, exchange with the, uh, SBS guys and I was going to be deploying with them when I was a team leader at the, uh, at the command of one of the squadrons and I was having to have one of my, uh, one of my, uh, junior guys go with me as well, but that ended getting shut down, like you're shut off last minute, which is a, which is a bummer. Like I've told guys before, there's, again, there's two, two units I really would like to have deployed with. Number one is our Delta Force, you know, brothers, you know, our, our counterparts from the army and then, and then also our, uh, our SBS, you know, our, our UK brothers as well. So I had like, uh, we, we, we had it all lined up, but same timeframe, but we were going to be, uh, you know, having, having a contingent of our,

• 33:21Speaker 05

  uh, of our troop deploy with some of the, uh, the D-boys down, you know, south of where we were at. Um, but again, it got it with the, uh, some of the Manning issues and kind of like the withdrawing of, uh, of forces, you know, they didn't even deploy all their guys. So we were the first ones to get cut, but like my number two, my assistant team leader, he just deployed with the strike force to, you know, do it like the Iraq, you know, in Syria, um, you know, kind of direct action agent. And he said, that was one of his best deployments he ever had. So the guys were great, super talented, you know, it's just very, again, looking back, if I could, I would really like to have, you know, one, did a deployment with them and then also deploy with our, our SBS brothers, which came close both times with both units, but this didn't, didn't, you know, it wasn't quite how the cards, uh, were going to fall for us unfortunately.

• 34:04Jack Murphy?

  So it, it sounds like in this time, uh, you're already thinking about screening for the command. You, you had this, you had this idea in mind really since the moment you joined the Navy, it sounds like.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  Exactly. Like I said, like when I was 12 years old and I read, uh, read the book Rogue Warrior, Richard R. Senko. So yeah, I screened in the summer of 2008, you know, screen positive. Um, was made, uh, still team for the rest of my deployment cycle. Like I said, like I mentioned before, I deployed to Iraq and then UCOM for a little bit and then checked in to start a, start the selection course in the springtime of 2009.

• 34:39Jack Murphy?

  So what was the screening process like?

• 34:42Speaker 05

  Again, it's, you know, P, you know, PT is obviously a, a, a big factor on there, but like when, when guys, you know, asked me what, what was harder, you know, like, you know, uh, green team, the selection course for development group or, uh, or BUDS, uh, me personally, for me, I would rather do at a minimum, I would do first phase of BUDS, including hell week again, before I did the six weeks of the basic, you know, close quarter battles.

• 35:04Jack Murphy?

  Really?

• 35:05Speaker 05

  Yeah. Just to the, again, it's looking back, it's all the stress you put on yourself. You know, again, like it's, you're, you're not learning anything that it's, you know, technically you, some stuff it's new, yes, but the instructors are demonstrating and telling you only once, but they're telling you exactly how you want, uh, they want you to do it. And then this perfection is demanded. And then, so again, you're doing, you know, hellacious PTs of a morning for, you know, cup several hours and you're just getting right into doing the house, run after house run and a run, and then classes divided in half, half guys in the house, half the guys in the range doing drills and we would flip flop in the afternoon. So.

• 35:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I, I've heard guys say even, even dudes that are not super fond of the SEALs, say at development group, they have a very robust, you know, counterterrorism CQB program.

• 35:48Speaker 05

  Yeah. So again, it's, it's, that's one of the biggest things we are judged on. I mean, yes, you have to have other, you have to be competent in other, you know, core SEAL, uh, skills, uh, skill sets, but, uh, the CQB aspect, you know, the, again, like, I don't know. So people ask me all the time in the civilian world, what's CQB mean? Like this, like room clearing, you know, like structured clearing, you know, how to do it safely with potentially, you know, you know, heavily armed packs inside there too. And again, this, you know, kind of, you know, coming full circle, never, uh, when I was going through the selection and then, you know, you know, just doing, you know, you know, staying on the, uh, on the deployment grind at the command. No, I'd never thought, you know, it would, it would pay off like the way it has post military life, being able to do something I'm doing with the civilian law enforcement training.

• 36:30Speaker 05

  Cause again, yeah, it's just kind of funny looking back, you know, the, you know, 20 plus years, all the lessons learned, just kind of how I, where I got to where I'm at today. And it's all just kind of the cards just fell in place, you know, one, one by one over, over the years.

• 36:43Jack Murphy?

  So other than the CQB, what other kinds of training do you go through in green platoon as you're kind of getting spun up for, you know, the top level?

• 36:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, so you're doing, you're doing, you know, integration stuff with the 160th, you know, the helicopter, you know, squad or the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. So again, you talk about guys that are the top of their, their tradecraft right there. Those guys are absolutely phenomenal from 47 pilots to the, you know, the Hawks, the little birds, you know, not to mention all the, the DAPs, the direct action penetrators, you know, crew for the Blackhawks rigged as gunships and also the A's, the AH6s. So I'm doing a lot, a lot of integration stuff with them and certain aspects. And then you're doing quite a bit of jumping, skydiving with certain like military free fall profiles. So again, I say probably besides the CQB portion, jumping, we usually get a couple of guys per class as well that cannot meet the standards and have to either get recycled

• 37:37Speaker 05

  through or they, they go back to their, you know, their original command, you know, within the SEAL teams they came from.

• 37:44Jack Murphy?

  What do you think it is that gets them on the free fall course?

• 37:47Speaker 05

  Usually it's Z-ing out the exits. And I mean, I've told those guys before too, I had a fairly healthy fear of jumping. Like one of the biggest, I guess, failures, if you want to talk about, you know, I would admit during my career, I went to Oatay Lakes Military Free Fall School that the Navy put on and I failed out of it. So I got, I was Z-ing the exits. So, and that was definitely in the back of my mind, you know, going through our, you know, green team, the selection course, we were doing our, our jumping there. But again, as this, I think I've, hopefully I was able to help a few guys that were struggling potentially as well throughout the years. It wasn't until I truly understood the relative wind and how you're exiting the aircraft, whether it's a side door or a ramp, and either you're symmetrical or you're not, and how you like an arch, you know, can hit the relative wind is what really kind of like, it just,

• 38:31Speaker 05

  it just all clicked for me at one point in time. So again, I was still, you know, struggled a little bit, you know, during our selection course for the command or doing the jumping stuff, but was able to end up going.

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• 40:04Speaker 05

  I was kicking it through, but it wasn't until I got to the squatter and started doing a lot of jumping to where I was like, okay, it's all starting to make sense now as well. And even more so when I went to like free fall jump master school. It definitely kind of like tied everything in together with me. And so when I was getting ready to turn over my team with the incoming team leader, like one of my guys, you know, was really awesome dude, I had a lot of respect for, but I kind of recommended that to him because he was, he was, you know, he was proficient at jumping, but you could just tell he just was not as confident as I would like to see him, you know, and be. And then, so I kind of suggested that to him, say, hey, man, like I would really, I would really go, you know, recommend you go through military, you know, the free fall JM at some point in time, jump master school, the command puts on, just because I think it will help

• 40:47Speaker 05

  tie things in a lot, a lot, you know, better, better for you. And you'll just be more confident at jumping. And he's like, and the only reason why I'd notice, you know, I don't think you have, you know, as much confidence as you could have, because I was you about, you know, six, seven years prior to that. So hopefully, hopefully I was a semi-positive influence on him as far as that, that aspect.

• 41:09Jack Murphy?

  And after getting through all this training, you sign into the command. Now you're now you're in the big leagues, man. What what is it like making that jump from a SEAL team to development group?

• 41:20Speaker 05

  And so people ask me that a lot, like, what's the difference? You know, it's still team four versus, you know, like team five, or even, you know, obviously the command, you know, Dev Group SEAL Team Six. So I would say this. So if you have, you know, two or three platoons deployment cycles underneath your belt, and the, you know, the East and West Coast SEAL Teams are SDV Team One, SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team One, you're considered like a very experienced guy. Whereas again, I did my two platoons, you know, started the selection process going through a through Green Team, and then I get to, you know, Squadron, and I spent the majority of my career out over there. And I was a brand new guy again, you know, it's just like, literally, I was like the least experienced. So it just, I think it's overall the experience level, just the the mission set itself, and it's really like the for the selection process,

• 42:05Speaker 05

  you know, Green Team, it's just perfection is demanded, you know, and it's they have so many, so many, you know, just, you know, sets of eyes watching you, like, you really can't get away with with a whole lot, especially early on, doing some of the the initial weed out phase of things. So I'd say just the over again, it's it's like when I was having my interview board, you know, when I was doing like my screener initially, to try to get orders to go to go to Green Team, go through the command selection process. I kind of like on my interview paperwork, I said, like, hey, like, why you want to come to command? I'm like, it's it's the natural progression for strong operators. So you kind of just keep keep going up in that that trajectory. So again, like, quite a few guys I know, we're on the East and West Coast Teams, definitely kind of plateaued out a little

• 42:47Speaker 05

  bit. They had the talent level, they definitely could have went to the command and been very successful over there. So again, it's just, you know, it's it's just one one big competition as far as, you know, the trajectory up, as far as experience level goes. And again, it's just, you know, you're you're, you know, you're one of the tier one units, you know, that you're going to be you're going to be getting the call when things really, you know, when shit really hits the fan, or some of the higher profile operations happen.

• 43:11Jack Murphy?

  And so what's it like, I mean, you've partially answered this, I think, but already like, like, what's it like getting to a squadron? And again, I imagine all of these guys are A-type personalities, like they're super dialed in, super intense all the time. What's it like hitting the ground running in a squadron?

• 43:29Speaker 05

  So even to your point, Jack, even more as far as hitting the ground running. So like I was just, our squadron was deployed when we, when we got through our, our selection process. So yeah, like the command master chief, he wanted us to take the holidays off. So right after the first year, we deployed overseas with the squadron. So again, you talk about just being thrown right to the fire and being like, hey, you were a tier one operator. Like you are, you're expected to know, you know, what's going on. So it's definitely, definitely, you know, a lot of things we've, you know, covered some in green team, but, but not to the extent with the high level of training. And again, just talk about the experience level, you know, from like, you know, the troop chief, you know, the team leaders on down. It's just like, I've told so many people this before too,

• 44:12Speaker 05

  like looking back, it took me a couple of years to get removed, you know, kind of in the, in the civilian world and kind of looking back and like the, the talent level that that place possesses is unreal. Everything from like the operators, you know, like, you know, the leadership, the, um, you know, even like the supporting assets, you know, all the different, various departments, like everyone at that, at that place, at that command is truly at the, uh, the, the tip of the spear, at the top of their game and, and all facets. So if, and if you're not, if you can't pull your weight, you have to move on. So.

• 44:43Jack Murphy?

  Um, all right. So tell us about gearing up for that first deployment.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  Oh gosh. Again, it was, we went through, you know, the selection process and made it through and had a little time, you know, for the holidays. And then it was, it was, you know, I think the No, it was, it was, you know, I guess it was a couple of days after the first where yeah, we, we caught a rotator bird and, and I'm over there and flew over and joined our, uh, joined our squadron. So it was, you know, kind of what I, what I, we were kind of talked about, you know, where we were told, you know, what, what was going to be expected of us and everything, uh, everything else. So it was, it was quite the experience, you know? I mean, definitely, you know, it's, you talk about this, you know, walking in someplace where you are just, you know, you feel so small, even though you just went through one of, you know, considered one of the hardest selection, you know, courses in the US military.

• 45:33Speaker 05

  Uh, you still feel like you don't know anything, you know, when you're there just because of the talent level of guys that are, that, that you're working with.

• 45:42Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and I mean, it's again, the, the big jump from the SEAL teams to development group is that now you guys are charged with going after like nation level HVTs as opposed to like, these are the bad guys in town.

• 45:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I say like a lot, like the national, being like one of the national mission forces, it's, it just, it ups the game that much. And also the scrutiny, the scrutiny that comes with it as well. Um, so yeah, like I said, like when we were going through green team perfection was demanded and yeah, it was, you know, perfection was demanded in the squadrons, you know, to the, to the highest extent. For everyone, from your team leader, from, uh, you know, your, your other, uh, senior leaders all the way down to, you know, the, the guys that were just, you know, a year or two, you know, ahead of you as far as, as you know, time in the command, you know, you just, you don't, you don't want to let your teammates down. Like when I talk about some of the, uh, leadership and team building aspects, you know, I cover in the civilian world and some in the domestic law enforcement world too. But I talk about peer pressure, peer pressure being the ultimate double edged sword, you know, like,

• 46:38Speaker 05

  where you had guys that were, you know, like had, were negative peer pressure completely. I saw like this ruined derail, you know, completely derailed careers, you know, for that matter, but then positive peer pressure, like, okay, you can accomplish extraordinary feats just because you don't want to let your teammates down. So, again, like talking about the ultimate, ultimate double edged sword or peer pressure, it could be a, be a hell of a, hell of a positive or an extreme negative.

• 47:04Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, there, there's the pressure, but there's also the a- aspect of like, you're my boy blue, you got this, you know?

• 47:10Speaker 05

  Exactly. You don't, you don't want to let your teammates down.

• 47:13Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. I, uh, can you say where you went on that first trip?

• 47:18Speaker 05

  It was East Afghanistan. It was one of the one of my strike forces over there. So with the with the squadron I was in.

• 47:26Jack Murphy?

  Cool. And from that timeframe, like now that you're in the big leagues, any missions that kind of like jump out at you that were interesting or noteworthy?

• 47:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, so we did several deployments to Afghanistan that were always could be spicy to moments notice. But for me, I was I was very fortunate. If I was in the troop that conducted the just to be cannon hostage rescue raid in Somalia in January of 2012. So again, it was just just how it worked out with the rotation. Again, very, very fortunate. Everything went very well that night. It could not have gone nearly as nearly as well as it did. And yeah, just out of respect for the for the guys, you know, still going in harm's way, doing the job. I really don't like to cover very, you know, specifics of the operation, but I do like to talk about a lot of the lessons learned. I do that a lot when I'm teaching some of the law enforcement. But I'll disclose a little more in a closed, closed environment to really kind of hit home some of the points.

• 48:16Speaker 05

  But I always like to talk about, you know, I'm doing my initial PowerPoint slide for some of the CQB courses I teach is, you know, the definition of advanced tactics. We heard that in green team all the time. All advanced tactics are is knowing the basics, knowing when it makes sense to break the rules and then be able to articulate why you broke those rules. So it was definitely like that operation really highlighted because I'll cover again without without saying too much. You know, even though we had, you know, the most state of the art, the military aircraft, you know, reconnaissance aircraft overhead, we have the latest and greatest of weapon systems, optics, MBGs, the recy guys had thermals. But even though we had all that, the tactic we used to clear that objective and save those two hostages is one of the most basic tactics that every infantry soldier is taught

• 49:00Speaker 05

  at a young age and every small unit, you know, special operations tactician is taught at a young age with some of the kind of the small unit tactics we work on. So that always mentioned when I'm teaching the courses as far as like, hey, never underestimate the importance of that tactical team leader position. Like when when things went very kinetic, you know, very dynamic, very quick. I still remember hearing our my troop chief's voice in my ear like cool, calm, collected, saying it's like, hey, target ID, damn it, guys, target ID. Just because your buddy's shooting doesn't mean you need to be shooting. So again, we got to count, you know, we got to own every round we send down range because we had two innocents, two hostages we were saving. And then also kind of talk about the the personal SOPs. I always talk about, you know, with the courses. You know, personal standard operating procedures.

• 49:45Speaker 05

  I never miss an opportunity to learn from either your mistake or somebody else's mistake, whether it's a real world operation, training, you name it. So my biggest personal lesson learned, personal standard operating procedure lessons learned from that one is I never left the wire from that point forward without some sort of a handheld thermal because we had zero loom, we had a thick cloud cover rolled in, right? The last, you know, you know, like from our, from our PR, operational rally point. And so we, we pretty much, you know, had to, you know, you know, kind of fanned out in a certain, you know, formation where we knew the pilots were, sorry, pirates holding the two hostages were roughly in the same type of a formation. So yeah, the recce guys were with either handheld thermals or their fusion goggles or night vision and you know, thermal combined, you know, goggles, you know, capable.

• 50:30Speaker 05

  They were kind of calling out heat sources, you know, with rough direction of travel and rough distance, but it was, it was fairly helpless feeling not really being able to see even like where, where, where heat signatures were right out there. So that was my biggest lesson learned on that one is I definitely wanted to, from that point forward, I never left the wire without a handheld thermal.

• 50:47Jack Murphy?

  That's because it was, because it was so foggy, you couldn't see anything under night vision.

• 50:52Speaker 05

  Again, it was zero loom, cloud cover rolled in, there's not a whole ambient light in the country of Somalia, in the, in the, in the, in the bush, you know, in the middle of nowhere. And just like the vegetation was super thick. So yeah, again, even like looking just underneath your NVGs, looking at your buddy to your left and to your right, you know, or even in the formation, you couldn't, you could see like the glow from them and maybe a little bit of an outline, but you'd have to shine your laser illuminator to really be able to see them. So really I couldn't, you know, most of us could not tell at all in a, you know, where roughly even the, you know, heat signatures were coming, you know, from distance wise and rough location, unless you had a thermal capability, either built into your NVGs or like a little handheld thermal.

• 51:30Jack Murphy?

  And so you guys pulled Jessica Buchanan and there was a, a European national?

• 51:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was a Danish guy, Paul Fisten, yeah. They were working for a Danish mining company when, when, when they were taken hostage.

• 51:42Jack Murphy?

  And I, I gotta ask, like, what's that moment like when you repatriate an American and a friendly national hostage? I, I always think of like, you know, the Kurt Muse rescue in Panama where like all of a sudden there's these soldiers there pulling you out and saying, we're American soldiers, we're here to bring you home. Like, that's gotta be a good feeling.

• 52:02Speaker 05

  Oh, no, absolutely. It was definitely the highlight of all of our careers, hands down. And we were, again, we just, you know, she exfilled her and the other, the Danish citizen, Paul, they, they, you know, took one of the first helos out and we didn't, you know, didn't hear anything else from her for, you know, several years, but then after the fact, she ended up coming back to the command and we were able to host her and kind of like have a big, a big debrief. It tied in a lot of like our questions we had.

• 52:27Speaker 05

  Also kind of her, you know, her question she had, once we were able to tie the stories together. So I thought that was very beneficial and like just such a sweet girl, such a sweet gal. So, yeah, just, you know, just a wonderful, wonderful human being.

• 52:39Jack Murphy?

  And I bet it also offered some closure to that event for everyone involved.

• 52:45Speaker 05

  Yes, absolutely. Like again, initially we did a little meet and greet. We're in one of our commander's conference rooms. And I mean, she immediately like she was gonna like start talking to begin with and she completely just broke down and started crying. And like the thing that she was, was able to get, you know, words she was able to get out, you know, because we like took her to the memorial wall that she saw the pictures of guys that had been, been killed throughout the years, you know, at the command. And so, yeah, she kind of, we were barely able to hear her get it out, the words out. She's like, I couldn't live with myself if I would have seen one of you, one of your photos up there on that memorial wall. So again, we told her like, hey, it did, did not work out that way, you know, so, you know.

• 53:18Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 05

  So, hey, just, hey, everything worked out fine. We're all here and let's, you know, it was, we also reiterated to her that, hey, it was all the, the highlight of all of our careers. So we were more than happy and more than willing to, to go, you know, per ourselves in harm's way to bring you back home, Jessica. So I think that definitely made her feel, feel pretty good about, about things.

• 53:39Jack Murphy?

  I, I think she wrote a book about her experience and I, I have not read it, to tell you the truth.

• 53:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I used to read it as well, still too. Um, yeah, it's, it's called Impossible Odds. So I watched the 60 minute interview she, she's done several times, or she did several times. That's a pretty, pretty good interview. If, if, uh, folks have not seen that yet. So just, you just Google Jessica Buchanan, hostage rescue, 60 minutes, it'll pop right up on YouTube.

• 54:06Jack Murphy?

  I'll, I'll check it out. Um, that is a super cool story. I get it, man. That's awesome. And after that, what was kind of like the next step in your career as an operator at this point?

• 54:20Speaker 05

  So, right after I deployed to Afghanistan again, later on that year after we did the hostage rescue for Jessica, but then after that, I actually was for a pre-team leader, I did a little professional development. I went to our clandestine operations squadron. So, it was a good experience doing some of the unilateral surveillance stuff we were doing. Then went back to the squadron. I was a member of before and did my rotations as assistant team leader and team leader. And then I finished my career off back at our clandestine operations squadron. So, again, looking back, I really cannot, you know, really can't ask for too much more as far as, you know, just being able to, you know, just getting the various experience I've had too. Because again, talking about

• 55:02Speaker 05

  everything, how it all comes full circle, the several from our clandestine operations squadron, I do quite a bit of like surveillance training for domestic law enforcement. So again, between like the tactical training, shooting, some of the like kind of small unit, you know, small team, you know, tactics courses and also the surveillance, it keeps the schedule pretty full. And one of the gals is one of our female operators at the in our clandestine operations squadron, is a good friend of mine, Jackie. She runs Athena Defense Group. We, you know, team up a lot to host, you know, and put on some of these surveillance for domestic law enforcement blocks. So, again, I got no, initially like Jackie was gonna, I thought Jackie and I were gonna be co-located. We're gonna be

• 55:44Speaker 05

  able to both hop on here together, but I completely got my dates mixed up. And yeah, she's back in California, but we are gonna be linking up again, coming up in the Denver area here in July for several weeks for some training we're putting on. So, yeah, definitely recommend for guys to go check out Athena Defense Group on Instagram. And then she's got a website that's, you know, pretty, pretty well put together too. So, she's an awesome gal. When we're doing our introductions, I always bring it up. You know, I kind of say my piece as far as background is and I said, I don't want to steal Jackie's thunder. But who in here has seen the the Lioness series and usually about half to two thirds of the, you know, the the class, you know, attending raises, you know, their hands like, okay, like Jackie is your real life version of Lioness. She was in one of three programs that that, you know, um, that that series was written and based off of.

• 56:28Speaker 05

  So that that always gets guys' attention right away, you know, when they're like, oh, gosh, yeah, this gal, this gal, here's the real, the real deal though. Um, yeah, just Jackie's an awesome, awesome gal and yeah, it's it's a pleasure to work and it was good, it was good to work with her while we were on active duty together. And it's, you know, just as good, if not better, working in the civilian world together.

• 56:46Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, uh, put us in touch and I would be more than happy to have Jackie on the show one day.

• 56:51Speaker 05

  Okay, absolutely. I highly recommend it. Yeah, Jackie is Jackie is awesome. Jackie is.

• 56:55Jack Murphy?

  We'll square that away.

• 56:56Speaker 05

  I always, I always joke with guys as well. So for, uh, can I compare Jackie, you know, like, you know, again, being a, being a female and like pretty much a man's world, you know, she's definitely a devil in alpha all herself. But as far as as as trustworthy and, uh, you just, you know, you know, a team player she is. So I always can make the comparison, you know, when, uh, you know, you're you're small, you know, tight knit group of a group of friends. I use the, uh, that movie, The Town with Ben Affleck and Jeremy Renner. When they're, uh, when he goes into, when Ben Affleck goes into, you know, the, the place we're staying at and talks with, you know, Jeremy Renner's character. And he's just like, hey, like, I need your help, you know, you can't ask any questions, you know, we're going to hurt some people. He says, you know, your, your, your car or mine, you know, or whose car are we taking?

• 57:39Speaker 05

  But Jackie's in that same category. I was like, Jack, I need your help, you know, we gotta go do some stuff. It's a little bit questionable. And she would be like, all right, we'd be taking your truck or mine, right? So she's definitely, uh, definitely in the, in the club, you know, she's definitely within the sister within the brotherhood. That is for sure.

• 57:54Jack Murphy?

  Uh, so you said you you did some a time as assistant team leader and then team leader?

• 57:59Speaker 05

  Yeah. So in the squadron, I spent, you know, quite a, not quite a decade in, uh, overall. So, um, yeah, again, being an assistant team leader after being out of the loop for a little bit in our clandestine operation squadron, it's, it was fairly easy to come back. And it just, again, it's how funny how things work out like I keep mentioning. So that, when I came back, the, uh, the assault squadrons were actually taking over some of the, uh, you know, unilateral surveillance mission that our clandestine operation squadron had been doing. So my troop was designated as the, um, you know, the sensitive activities, support activities, you know, you know, clandestine, you know, capable assault troop. So I was able to help out a lot, you know, with, uh, with some of the other transition just coming from, coming from that world and then deploying to the same spot, you know, that, uh, with a, with

• 58:44Speaker 05

  my assault squadron that I just deployed the previous cycle with, with our clandestine operations squadron.

• 58:49Jack Murphy?

  That's a lot of capability in one troop, isn't it, to have guys that can free fall in and clear an airplane if need be, but also can do all this sort of clandestine surveillance work?

• 59:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I, I won't mention his name because he likes to keep a very low profile with some of his stuff he's still doing post military life, but one of the most well-respected operators, at least in my time I was there, said it, said it pretty good one time, you know, he was a team leader in one of the squadrons and then went to our clandestine operations squadron and then went back as a, a troop chief for that same assault squadron and finished his career, retired out of the clandestine operations squadron. But you know, the guys, you know, they would say like, oh, it's an SA, you know, it's, you know, it's a, you know, a lot of surveillance troop, you know, you know, you know, sensitive activities troop. But then he's just like, no, no, no, it's an assault troop with a sensitive activities capability, like there's a difference, you know, so it's pretty much all encompassing. So definitely a little bit different than just a, and quote unquote, sensitive activities

• 59:43Speaker 05

  troop, to know it's an assault troop with, uh, sensitive activities capabilities.

• 59:48Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And it's also interesting to have, like, the, the sort of continuum of targeting kind of encompassed and all encompassed in one organization like that, that you guys can probably do the intelligence gathering, the mission planning, and then the execution of the mission itself, if you were called upon to do that.

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  Yep. So, yeah, we, we like to kind of define, fix, fix, exploit, analyze, and, uh, even some of the deployment cycles before that, and we're doing some of like the more of the remote outstations with some of our, uh, you know, um, interagency counterparts as well, doing like an assistant team leader, you know, and then also the team leader during those rotations where, I mean, you're the senior military guy, you know, on, on the ground on some of these operations as the team leader. And really, from like the whole aspect as far as professional development, you know, you couldn't ask for anything more because you've understood like the targeting aspect of things, you know, how you actually, you know, target packages even get brought up, you know, from like intel reports to various locations, you know, various, um, Even assets, if you will, both, you know, you know, technical, you know, physical, you

• 1:00:50Speaker 05

  know, uh, you know, human intelligence, you name it. But you really learn the, uh, the whole targeting process from like, okay, we have a bad individual we're going after. Okay. We start to build a pattern of life on him, you know, and then from there, package, you know, the, uh, you know, the con op concept of operations goes up and you're, you're doing all that, you know, as the, uh, then our guys are helping you with it, you know, your intel analyst plays a very big, uh, very big role and other, uh, other, um, you know, specialized positions within the small team you're working with. But, I mean, you talk about like this, the ultimate professional development. I mean, you understand the whole process pretty damn good, or you have to understand it, or you're not gonna ever gonna get out the, uh, get out the door to go into the ops if you, uh, you know how the process works. So.

• 1:01:31Jack Murphy?

  And then becoming a team leader. I mean, what's that experience like? Uh, you're in charge, right?

• 1:01:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, definitely, uh, definitely the highlight of my career, you know, overall. So I was, uh, I was in our troop chief position for our clandestine operations squadron for a bit as well, too. Um, again, it just, that, that, that would have been, you know, probably the highlight of my career, but just unfortunately it was during like the COVID timeframe and then just kind of had like some stuff on the personal side. I decided to retire. So, um, didn't, didn't get to do nearly as much, uh, real world operationally. I was hoping in that position, but, but as far as, you know, being like in a teammate or an assault team, you know, it's just, and it just, again, like talking about the, the talent of that place, like just looking like every one of my guys, you know, from like I was at Echo one down to like my, my Echo seven, you know, at number seven. So I just, every single dude just was, uh, just a phenomenal, you know, physical specimen, number one. Number two,

• 1:02:22Speaker 05

  just the, the talent, you know, overall, like whether it's like for CQB, shooting, jumping, you name it. I mean, you, it's.

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• 1:03:57Speaker 05

  They say, you know, team leaders should only have to make, you know, at the command, like slight course corrections here and there, you know, and that's, that's 100% was my, my case as well. Though I know some, some guys have to deal with some problem children that uh, that causes more, uh, you know, more effort and, uh, you know, kind of, uh, you know, have more of a, more of a negative light, but you know, it's, it's for me at least, I couldn't have asked for any better guys, you know, that work and, work, that I worked with and when I was a team leader. So even as the assistant team leader, I got, you know, quit, you know, I was one of this, uh, I think the senior number two, a senior assistant team leader in the squadron for one full rotation. So again, it was, you know, guys would come to me for a lot. I think, you know, hopefully I was a positive influence to them. And, uh, again, it's just, you know, just, I still, still to this day, just, it

• 1:04:42Speaker 05

  just blows me away, just the talent of that place. Still, yeah, they even, I was fortunate enough to, uh, this past January, in one of the cities I'm in quite a bit, uh, my old squadron was doing an urban training event there. And I was like, got to see a lot of guys who were, that were my new guys when I was a, you know, assistant team leader and team leader, that they are now team leaders or assistant team leaders running the show. So that's, that was just phenomenal to see. So.

• 1:05:04Jack Murphy?

  And so you finished your career in the clandestine squadron. I know that stuff's like pretty hush, but what are you allowed to say about that?

• 1:05:12Speaker 05

  Just it was our biggest mission set, depending on where we were at, was like being able to unilaterally conduct, conduct surveillance, whether it's physical, technical, you know, using other, other, other assets, other electronic means. That was the biggest thing that our troops specifically, and there was other troops that have other, other mission sets I won't go into, but for ours specifically, it was the ability to basically, you know, target, you know, underneath the, you know, kind of a, you know, the, you know, the, the cover of something, you know, other completely like non, you know, non, you know, action arm type of a military, you know, element operation, where everyone referred to as, but it was, it was really just like the

• 1:05:55Speaker 05

  fine fix aspect of things is what we really concentrated on.

• 1:05:59Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And then talk to us a little bit about retirement. Like you must have had some moment in your career of like surrealism, you know, that you went from being the 12 year old kid where reading Rogue Warrior to being a team leader and then, you know, master chief, troop chief, pretty wild experience. How did retirement take place for you? When did that moment come where you're like, you know what, it's, I'm ready to move on?

• 1:06:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, I was a senior chief at a time. It's actually doing a big surveillance block, but without going into like actual specifics, I just, I just got to the point where I was, I was on the fence. Hey, like I really need to figure out, hey, am I going to be retiring? Cause I was coming up on, I was, I was less than inside of the year from hitting the 20 year mark. I was like 19 years and change. And it was actually, you know, where, where we live at now, majority of the time in Dallas, Texas, we were on a work trip out there of all places. And it's kind of like, it is, you know, all, all came to me, you know, at once. I told my wife, I was like, hey, you know, I know you said I had to get there on my own whenever I was going to, you know, retire or what? I just got there. So, um, yeah, like after that trip, when I came

• 1:07:07Speaker 05

  Uh, the following week I uh, I put in my retirement paperwork and then still had the uh, position for like several more months. Just while they were doing some manning, shuffling around and everything else. But I was starting my uh, my prep to uh, to retire at that point. It is a long process. So I'm sure you saw it as well too. Where you're, you know, separating out, retiring for uh, for everybody. It is, it is definitely not an overnight. You're, you're not just giving your two weeks notice and then walking out the door like you are in the civilian world potentially. So, but yeah, once I was, once I got there, I was, I was so ready. I could have walked out that day, honestly. So uh, like I said, a hell of a ride. You know, looking back, um, you know, wouldn't trade uh, my experiences for anything, but they say when you're done, you're done. And you'll know you're, when you're done. So I'd like, I've had several buddies since then, you know, getting ready to retire, you know, or getting ready, you know,

• 1:07:52Speaker 05

  kind of like on short final, they said like, like dude, we didn't, we didn't realize what you were saying the, you know, initially when you said like, hey, when you're done, you're done. Uh, but like we definitely do now. So I hope, again, hopefully give them some good advice during their transition period.

• 1:08:04Jack Murphy?

  It's really important, isn't it? To like know when you hit that point to like be able to identify that.

• 1:08:10Speaker 05

  Cause again, like there's, there's definitely guys that I, you know, still have, you know, crazy amount of respect for that were really burnt out. They should have retired use years earlier, but they're just like, it kind of, no, I wouldn't say you're not, you could never get comfortable at that place. But at the same time, I think guys were just, you know, they were a point where like, okay, I can pretty much hit the cruise control and like kind of ride this for a little bit longer. Even though I'm, you know, they're not really, really all that happy, you know, they're, they're, they're ready to move on, but there is, again, I wouldn't use the word afraid, but I think there's just a lot of apprehension with guys getting out, you know, when they get out, especially when they have 20 plus years then.

• 1:08:42Jack Murphy?

  And who, who the hell wants to say, I don't want to be on the team anymore. I mean.

• 1:08:47Speaker 05

  Exactly. At the point where you just, you lose that fire in the gut, which I really, that was really for me. I was just like, hey man, like the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. I feel like I was going 120 miles an hour my entire career. I was kind of like, you know, but I got to the point, I was like, no, you know what? I, I think I'm good. I think I'm ready to move on and try something else in life.

• 1:09:06Jack Murphy?

  That's cool. So you retire and tell us about post military life. I mean, kind of what are those first couple of years like after retirement?

• 1:09:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I retired officially in October 1st of 2022, but I said this before when folks have asked and I'll say it again, like from my experience, we're talking to a lot of other guys. I think my transition, the last, you know, X amount of months I was in and then transition in civilian world was one of the smoothest and easiest.

• 1:09:32Jack Murphy?

  Really?

• 1:09:32Speaker 05

  I possibly could it could have had. Again, again, I was fortunate enough to do quite a few urban training events where we'd be hosted by, you know, local, state and federal law enforcement teams throughout the area. So we'd always been trying to give back, either host them at the command, you know, they'd come out and train or even on location. We would provide, you know, training for them, depending on what they want to work on, whether it's shooting, CQB, you know, you name it. So. I kind of had been putting out a little bit of feelers, you know, months prior to when I was going to be dropping my, you know, had to make the decision. And again, just happened to be in Dallas when I finally, you know, made that, made that decision and one of the good buddy of mine. He's a work for Garland PD, he's one of the SWAT, or the lieutenant over SWAT and also he's the current president of the Texas Tactical Police Officers Association.

• 1:10:18Speaker 05

  I told him I was going to be dropping my retirement paperwork when I got back, I was ready to move on. The first thing he said to me, he's like, hey man. Let me know when you just want to start teaching for us, you know, we'll get you on the, on the books as soon as, soon as you're ready. So. I was able to get, I pretty much had started my, I'd already had the idea for my company, the name, you know, everything else I wanted to be doing. You know, when I was doing my undergraduate, you know, program for my online degree with entrepreneurship through American Military University. But really wasn't going to like, obviously, you know, launch it until I knew like, okay, this is how much time I have left in the military and going from there. So. Um, I, you know, submit them in Texas, my articles of a formation, like literally like a, I think a day or two after I got my, uh.

• 1:10:58Speaker 05

  I got my retirement paperwork approved back from big Navy. So I knew like this was going to be my last day and I really didn't do a whole lot with it for several months, but. Is after, I want to say April, May-ish timeframe of 2022, I put in for like the outside employment through the command, you know. So again, if you're on, you know, just burning terminal leave, there's still some employment restrictions where you're able to do quite a bit of stuff. You just have to ask permission for it ahead of time. So I was able to actually start working for myself and my company, just burning like excess terminal leave. I didn't do like the skill bridge, none of the transition programs. Once I had all my VA stuff squared away and everything else, you know, I even like just starting to work in for myself, even before I had my retirement ceremony, had that in June of 2022. And then like literally just burning, you know, the excess leave I had at that point in time, just coming a

• 1:11:43Speaker 05

  little bit here and there in between work trips I had lined up. So, so many people told me is like, hey, it's a big change, you know, you did, you know, over 20 years in the military, you know, right out of high school. Like you need to take some time off, you know, like six months, two year, maybe do a little work here and there, you know, and, and really kind of figure out what you want to do. Yeah, I didn't listen to any of that shit. So I literally got my retirement, I took my wife into the command for one last time on September 30th of 2022, got her dependent, you know, retiree ID. I had to get rid of, I had to get rid out of several programs in the clandestine operations squadron I was in, and then turned on my access badge, got my DD 214, and then went and got my military retiree ID at that point. We, they gave me a temporary badge, you know, like, hey, just

• 1:12:28Speaker 05

  badge out, just leave it right on the, at the top of the other badge readers, you're driving out. Did that, and literally three days later, I'd already had it lined up. I did a three week work trip, that's, you know, 72 hours after I officially retired. So I went out to Denver, did some training out there for, for a week, and then went to Dallas Fort Worth for a week, and then down to, to Houston for a week. Sorry, not Houston, San Antonio. I'd already done a Houston trip previous to that. So, um, yeah, again, like, I totally understand, I totally get why, you know, some folks want to do, you know, six months, a year, you know, you know, some, you know, sabbatical, you know, hiatus, but that was definitely not me. Like literally 72 hours later, I was on the road again, hitting it hard. So I've been, been going nonstop ever since.

• 1:13:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, you, you needed something to do with yourself to keep you occupied.

• 1:13:13Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 1:13:14Jack Murphy?

  Got, got your Navy veteran hat from the PX and you were?

• 1:13:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was, yeah, I got my, you know, company logo with that. Wasn't going to get any of that Navy.

• 1:13:23Jack Murphy?

  I'm just messing with you.

• 1:13:27Jack Murphy?

  So your company, you have a training group. Tell us a little bit about that.

• 1:13:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it's Gallo Glass Guardian Group. And then I get asked all the time, the name, what's like the namesake? You know, what does it mean? So, so Gallo Glass was they got termed for Scotch Irish mercenaries from the 13th to 16th century from the Norse Gaelic armies, kind of where some of my family lineage is from, you know, my dad's obviously last name Lindsay Scottish. My last name, my mom was, her maiden name was Brennan for Irish. So kind of had the tribal, the tribal areas of Scotland and Ireland in the family lineage. So again, the Scotch Irish, you know, you know, Gallo Glass warriors were Scotch Irish mercenaries from, you know, kind of their version of special operations forces during that time.

• 1:14:10Speaker 05

  And once they would leave service, you know, military service, they'd go back to tribal areas and protect the chiefs and the tribal villagers from criminal elements and foreign invaders, or sometimes they would be hired by another foreign, you know, tribe to help protect the tribal areas in the same capacity. So not quite what I'm doing to the, you know, to the T, but I mean, it's very similar in a lot of ways as far as some of the tactical training. We do a little bit of security and assessments and things like that, but really like our bread and butter is the tactical training for domestic law enforcement. We do some, some civilian training as well, trying to get a little bit more involved with that. And I started doing a lot more of a leadership team building talks here recently as well, various presentations.

• 1:14:53Speaker 05

  I have a big PowerPoint. I can do, you know, almost a full, full day of stuff where I could do like, you know, kind of block it in. It's just several hours at a time, just depending on what the, what the clients are, you know, wanting, what they're asking for.

• 1:15:06Jack Murphy?

  And there's also a knife design company?

• 1:15:09Speaker 05

  Oh, yes. I actually have a couple of them right here. So yeah, so TSG Blades, so good buddy of mine I knew from, from Steel Team Four. We just, we kind of had been working on this for a while. And so, yeah, we just had our, the website is not live just yet. It's going to be TSG Blades. I'm actually going to have a phone call hopefully tomorrow, the next day to follow up with our web designer. But this is our initial, initial knife we had made right here. So this is the TSG Blades Overt. The large, it's a little over five inches, 100% American made. Our knife manufacturer is out of the Denver, Colorado area, Revo Indy Knives. And so, yeah, it's got, you know, the Uniclip sheath, you know, whole Kydex thing else. So that one, and then we have.

• 1:15:53Speaker 05

  Then we have the TSG Blades covert. That's the smaller one. So that this one has not been officially released yet, but the other one is going to be hopefully released on the website here very soon. I have some of them I've been selling in person.

• 1:16:07Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome, man.

• 1:16:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, they look great.

• 1:16:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. And then, uh, so the, for the third one, again, this is literally just a prototype, our, uh, our ma- um, a knife manufactured after we designed. This could be a folder, basically the size of the, this TSG Blades, the covert. This is going to be the clandestine of folder. So

• 1:16:27Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome.

• 1:16:27Speaker 05

  Again, it's a pretty printed prototype, but yeah, we're going to be hopefully starting to take orders for those very soon as well.

• 1:16:34Jack Murphy?

  Cool, man. And, uh, then let's also talk a little bit about some of the other stuff that you've gotten into, like, uh, there's a, a bit of like your police, uh, law enforcement work that you're getting into. And then, I mean, there's also how we met, uh, doing some security work.

• 1:16:50Speaker 05

  Exactly. Yeah. I guess, again, we joked before, we gotta like, you know, start linking up, brother, you know, more than like once a year, like, you know, so either you gotta come down when, uh, when JMed comes down, you know, some of the boys, boys weekend in North Carolina, meet Dallas or all head up, uh, head up north and, uh, you know, the NYC to meet you guys. Uh, so no, uh, so I'm a, uh, fully commissioned reserve deputy in the state of Louisiana at the Richmond Parish. And again, just, you know, kind of help out with training. I'll work some, you know, coming and going when I'm traveling through there. But I'm in the process of getting my Texas Commission on Law Enforcement license as well. I'll be a reserve through Allen, Texas PD. Um, I, um, again, talking about like the Navy Cop Mastered Arms, how it all, you know, kind of came full circle. Since I had that, you know, that, uh, that NEC, that Naval Enlistment Code, in addition

• 1:17:35Speaker 05

  to being a SEAL, I was able to get, uh, approved by the, from the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement. To go the military police credentialing route that really saves a lot of in-person academy time. So that would, I would normally have to do, even though there's a special operations route you can go, a special operations veteran and then a military police veteran. I was able to kind of get shave, shave even more time off. So I've already done all my line, so I'm all of my online requirements. I've done all of my in-person academy, except for I need eight hours, two different four-hour blocks, but I'm getting knocked out next, uh, next Thursday on June 5th at one of the regional academies in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And after that, I put in my, submit my application to take the exam and just hopefully knock it out the,

• 1:18:18Speaker 05

  uh, excuse me, the first time, knock out the, um, the, uh, the test, you know, that I'm, that I'll be, uh, be able to be fully commissioned and licensed at that point in time. So again, a lot of guys have asked me, you know, hey, why, why are you, why are you doing the law enforcement, you know, like actual, you know, commissioning, like you don't need that with your military experience. But for me, I'm all about just being like a lifelong learner, you know. And again, when I set out to do something, I really truly intend to try to be, uh, if all possible, be best in the world at it. And I think like, okay, how do I, how can I set myself apart from other guys doing with similar backgrounds, doing the, you know, the training gig as well. So kind of my, my thought process was like, hey, if I can have as many different credentials and licenses as, as domestic law enforcement, where I'm, when I'm working a shift, you know, helping the guys out, you know, guys and gals out,

• 1:19:03Speaker 05

  I'm held to the same standard, you know, same, you know, like, you know, use of force, you know, uh, in, in, uh, same, uh, you know, restrictions and guidelines, you know, underneath the, uh, you know, the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement or Louisiana Peace Officer Standing in Training. Like, how, how am I going to set myself apart? Well, if I have as much real-world experience as I possibly can, I'll be able to help translate that to a lot of the training blocks we do that much more and kind of put that domestic law enforcement spin on things. Cause I mean, I've heard a lot of times before people compare like, hey, special operations, you know, forces, you know, doing overseas operations versus domestic law enforcement is, is comparing apples to oranges. But if you really want to break it down, there's a, there's a whole lot of similarities as well. Um, so one of the biggest ones is, okay, you have like the military, you have your commander's intent, you have your rules of engagement in domestic law enforcement, you have your, you know, your

• 1:19:48Speaker 05

  chief's intent, your sheriffs, your director, whatever organization you're working for, you have your use of force guidelines.

• 1:19:55Speaker 05

  A US rule of law, so you still have your left and right flanks you have to operate in. And again, if I can, if I can, you know, continue to hopefully, you know, help out, you know, the, you know, local, uh, state and federal law enforcement agencies and kind of really like, you know, curtail, even if they don't take exactly, you know, how we're, you know, some of the things we put out to them as far as different tactics, techniques and procedures for various operations. If I could just help put a little bit of spin and morph things for them and it fits with the nerd department or agencies or policies or guidelines that saves one of their life, one of their buddy's lives or an innocent civilian's life, I mean, that is worth every second, you know, I mean, all the effort I'm putting into it.

• 1:20:35Speaker 05

  So again, I have gotten, you know, uh, you know, texts and phone calls from guys, you know, it's definitely, at some point in time, I really need to do like a, uh, a testimonials and get the website update a little bit more. But guys hit me up saying like, dude, like some of the stuff you showed us literally saved our lives. This is what happened. So, um, that's a good feeling. You talk about like job satisfaction at that point. So again, yeah, hopefully if I can make, you know, I can do that and really do something I enjoy and make a good, you know, good living for myself, you know, my family, that's, you know, icing on the cake. But literally just receiving text messages or phone calls, uh, from, from guys that's saying like, dude, like I don't, I'm sitting here like, one guy recently was, he was involved in two separate shootings. I put through multiple courses and he like literally hit me up, you know, two, two separate events, about like, you know, two years apart.

• 1:21:19Speaker 05

  And he hit me up, you know, saying, hey, I'm sitting here with my, you know, you know, you know, young, they're two or three year old daughter and like my wife is, you know, X amount of months pregnant. He's like, I honestly don't know if I'd be sitting here right now if it wasn't for you and some of the stuff you put out. So, so just wanted to say thank you. So again, getting, getting calls and texts like that is like, is it just, I mean, it's, it's worth every bit of the, uh, you know, the effort and the struggle sometime being a small business owner, you know, running it, you know, running, you know, post military life here. But again, you talk about just, you know, always want to be lifelong lessons learned. Right now, I, I always like to break things down, like they just said, the, uh, you know, um, you know, uh,

• 1:21:59Speaker 05

  You know, tactical, operational and strategic, you know, levels of things right now. Really concentrating more on the tactical, like the boots on the ground, the end user. Getting a little bit of like operational stuff when you have multiple, you know, units, you know, interagencies, you know, working together in a mutual aid capacity. But with you have, when you want to start bringing or talking about the strategic level things, those are your policymakers and whether it be like, you know, you know, state or federal, you know, like, you know, congressional members helping get legislation, you know, across, or even like, you know, senior leaders from, you know, your various, various agencies, you know, like your chiefs, sheriffs, directors, you know, folks that are really like affecting policy and writing policy. So I would like to get to the point where I have enough experience across the board

• 1:22:44Speaker 05

  where I could really start hopefully affecting at the strategic level as well and like really, really help kind of set some policies to where it would keep officers in the general public, you know, safe. That's really what it's all about. It's all about safety in the general public and safety for the, for the officers doing the dangerous job.

• 1:23:01Jack Murphy?

  Trey, there's something you mentioned that I'd like to kind of key off of. You talked about being a lifelong learner and I'd love to ask, you know, someone who worked at your level today, what are you still learning about marksmanship? What are you still learning about breaching? What are you still learning about tactics?

• 1:23:18Speaker 05

  They always evolve. So what I teach in the, I teach in one of the, one of like the CQB portions, I always talk about bangs. You used to like bangs, you know, distraction devices, diversionary devices in this civilian world. We would call them crashes in the military. They mean the exact same thing. A lot of times it's the exact same manufacturer, depending on which agency is buying from which, which manufacturer. But again, talk about just, you know, OJT and always trying to like make the course, you know, better with, with various, you know, various, you know, kind of critiques, you know, you know, you know, kind of, you know, you know, AAR points, guys.

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• 1:25:22Speaker 05

  ...come up with. And so I remember I was actually down in Houston teaching a course through Region 2 of the Texas Tactical Police Officers Association. I do a lot of, a lot of work with. And again, like it was interagency class, you know, you had guys that were like, you know, full-time SWAT guys for major metropolitan area. And then you had guys that were, you know, you know, within like less than two years as a, as a police officer, they got sent to inspector level CQB corps. So you have like huge training disparity. But so anyways, we're talking about implementing bangs. And there was like, we were doing a deliberate style clearance. And like one of the guy, like a couple of guys, like one guy, it was actually the one man in the doorway. Guys were getting a little frustration because the gears are grinding, not working together for the first time. I think it was the first day when this happened after we did like some classroom portions of things. And really

• 1:26:05Speaker 05

  like the one guy, you know, on the number one man was like, guys, what do you want me to do? You want me, you know, you're going to bang and want me to hold? You want me to bang and clear it deliberately? You want to be bang and take it dynamically? And I'm just like, stop right there. You know, like I literally got on my phone. I'm like, I have to add that to the, I didn't know the, the bang portion of the, of the calls, you know, the, the presentation during the distraction or utilizing the distraction devices. So, and that's just one of like, you know, many, many examples I could give of our far is just, just listening to guys, you know, from, from the domestic law enforcement standpoint, how they do things and how it's like, okay, I can totally see that. Like maybe I should like more for at least, at least cover that in different aspects, you know, is always,

• 1:26:45Speaker 05

  always, you know, evolving and making, making the curriculum better and better. And again, like I've, I've told a lot of folks this as well. I'm over the mindset of everything I teach, everything I put out in a domestic law enforcement training course, I need to be able to prepare myself and be able to be accountable if things do not go right, even if the officers did everything correctly, things if not, they do not go right, I could get called to the carpet and get on the witness stand and I have to justify why I, you know, put, you know, the certain training objectives and the curriculum, why I was covering that. That's why I'm so big. It was, it was a lot of work, you know, leading up to it, but a couple of years ago, the Texas state legislator changed the kind of rules for some of the reporting requirements for training where before it said like if

• 1:27:30Speaker 05

  you, if the course got audited, you had to provide a lesson plan with like the different training objectives and curriculum ahead of time and also the skills test. Then they changed it. I want to say it was September of 23, they changed it to where like you had to have one on file ahead of time. So again, it was a lot of extra work for me. I had, you know, work in between, uh, work trips. But I was back here getting some family time in in North Carolina, but it really forced me to start making some of these, uh, you know, Texas Commission on Law Enforcement template, uh, you know, lesson plans where it's like CQB, surveillance, shooting, you know, like a lot of night vision work I do as well. And so I've, I've always passed those off if guys want them, you know, like the training coordinator will get a copy of it for the reporting standards. But there's

• 1:28:12Speaker 05

  even other states. So I kind of had sent that to guys and, you know, what I've done courses through them or with them. And, uh, and they've actually be able to take it, morph it to their state, their state standards. And like, you know, it's like the lesson, they're, they can make their own lesson plan on file at that point, uh, too. So that's, that's definitely a, a benefit and it's just kind of has that, that, that little bit of extra, extra backing to know that like, hey, a state governing body is, is, you know, tracking and, and approved through a training coordinator that you, that you are actually, you know, you know, going by the lesson plan. And when I, whenever I do, hopefully get, you know, my test knocked out from my Texas Commission on Law Enforcement, you know, license, I get commissioned with Alan, one of the first courses I'm going to go to is

• 1:28:55Speaker 05

  the 40 hour T Cole Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Instructor Training Block. So, cause after that I'll be able to like, I think it's, I have my own control number if I'm, if I'm not mistaken, and I can actually bottom line. Like lesson plans instead of always having to run through, you know, like training coordinators for a certain department. So still a little bit more I got to figure out on that as as far as if I still have to need to run it through a department itself. I think that might be the case, but I just would be able to take a lot of work off, a lot of load off of the the training coordinators, having that call in addition to my my TCO, you know, like general peace officer's license.

• 1:29:30Jack Murphy?

  Trey, this has been a pretty wild ride, man. Uh, thank you for sharing your story with us. And is there anything we haven't gotten to, anything I haven't asked that you'd really like to talk about?

• 1:29:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I think we covered the majority of it. So I mentioned the TTPOA, the Texas Tactical Police Officers Association a lot. I do, I do some stuff with the NTOA, the National Tactical Officers Association, not as much, but I'm going to be presenting their conference again this year when they're going to have it in the in the end of August in the DC area. So looking forward to that. I'll probably do maybe like ones these Tuesdays, courses with them. There's there's several other state law enforcement, you know, nonprofit organizations that I would hopefully get more work with, like the H2A, the Heartland Tactical Officers Association, the Kansas City area. That's another one, another one I've been working on hot heavy. I gotta gotta get some stuff, excuse me, scheduled through them. So that and then I would like to talk just a little bit about, you know, a nonprofit I'm

• 1:30:25Speaker 05

  I'm partnered with, the Do a Little Good Foundation. They start in the Dallas, Fort Worth area. So, I mean, even though they're based out of there, they they kind of sponsor training and other stuff. And if you you could look on their website, it's D A L G dot org to Do a Little Good Foundation. If you Google that, oh, the website will pop up. But no, a buddy buddy of mine started that, you know, years ago, as you know, the the founder and executive director, Russ Spears is his name. And he's just, he's just one of the most phenomenal human beings that I've ever met in my entire life. He's a former Navy veteran himself. And then really, he has several different, several different aspects, you know, different like mission focuses where one is like, you know, training domestic law enforcement. Two is kind of helping with, you know, veteran entrepreneurship programs. And three, it's like a canine, like, you know, like a, you know, a service

• 1:31:08Speaker 05

  animal for for kids that have, you know, been in like an abusive homes and things like that. I know there's other stuff he's getting involved with as well. And again, if you just go on their website, look, they just, they just have some this from some phenomenal program. So definitely wanted to get them some more visibility here this evening as well.

• 1:31:26Jack Murphy?

  I will have links down in the description. And I think we also have a couple viewer questions for you, Trey.

• 1:31:31Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:31:34Speaker 11

  Um, this is from Corbin. How often did fitful apply to CQB?

• 1:31:39Speaker 05

  Okay, and fitful applies to all aspects of life, let me tell you. So, but no, a lot of it is just, I don't say like, hey, a, a quick decision, like our basic tactic, you know, executed quickly is usually better than a advanced tactic executed slowly or poorly. So, uh, again, like you talk about this, you know, playing pickup basketball, fill and flow, read and react. It all means the same thing. You have to have a lot of the, uh, figure it the fuck out mentality as you go. You still obviously want to have your SOPs, you want to abide by them. So you're not, you know, breaking the rules. Like I talked about before, the definition of advanced tactics, just knowing the basics, knowing when it makes sense to break the rules and then be able to articulate why you broke those rules is all advanced tactics are.

• 1:32:20Speaker 11

  Uh, from CB, what's your opinion on the MP7? I've heard comments from other tier one guys that it's not liked and used as much at all.

• 1:32:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, it was not, I mean, I had one for years. I carried on a few ops, but there's just, you heard horror stories from guys that if some guys had good success when they had to use it, other guys did not. And it's the round itself. I think, I think it could have been a little bit more, you know, efficient, but if they like some of like the actual bullet designs, you know, and ingrains would have been a little bit different. But, uh, again, like this, it's such a small market, like kind of talking with some of the, you know, the ammunition manufacturers are like, you know, we, we try to, I try to get additional, uh, additional, uh, you know, uh, rounds with the heavier grain bullets for that. It's like, guys, man, there's only two units out there that's really using it. It's just, it's not worth our time for we'd have to invest. So again, it was super lightweight. It was, it was freaking so much fun to shoot. I'll go give it that. But, um, again, like I only carried, you know, a handful of times when, uh, when I was doing some of the Overwatch type missions where I had like a long gun on my back.

• 1:33:20Speaker 05

  I wanted to try to make, you know, be as light as I possibly could be. Um, again, that's just, uh, some guys liked it, but the majority of guys just weren't super, super, you know, big fans of it. So I think some better options now, even though it's a, you know, the pistol caliber versions, but like the, uh, the MPX, I have one of those through Sig. Love that thing. The, uh, the Nemo arms, uh, mongoose that just came out and just got released. Good buddy of mine, we were at the command for, uh, together for quite a bit. He works for Nemo Arms. So, um, yeah, just haven't had a chance to shoot that yet, but just feeling it, you know, hands on. Like I would, I would carry one of those before I carried an MP, uh, MP7 for sure overseas or even domestically.

• 1:33:57Speaker 11

  Uh, one more. What was your favorite rifle or gun while you were in the teams?

• 1:34:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. So my H and K four sixteen will always be near and dear to my heart just because, you know, never, never let me down when I needed it to. Uh, or I was hoping it did not let me down, I should say. Um, we got the Noveskis, I think in twenty, gosh, what year was it? Twenty seventeen. I was still in our assault squadron. So got the Noveskis. Those were definitely, you know, a, a good upgrade. Um, but, uh, again, really didn't, you know, really didn't get a chance to deploy it that much with it. Enjoyed the hell out of shooting it for sure. That phenomenal guns like some of your other awesome, you know, American manufacturer, you know, AR companies, AR manufacturer companies are. But I'd say, yeah, just the, the, the H and K four sixteen will always be near and dear to my heart just because it was, it was the workhorse for the, uh, for the tiers, for the tier one organizations for many years during the height of the G one.

• 1:34:49Jack Murphy?

  That's it for questions. Uh, Trey, one more time, let folks out there know where they can find you, where they can find your company.

• 1:34:55Speaker 05

  Okay, absolutely. Yeah. So it's my, uh, website is, uh, three G strategic consultants.com. That's exactly how it's, um, listed and spelled out. Also on Facebook, I do some stuff work related on there. But yeah, if you just look at my name, Trey Lindsey, uh, you should be able to send me a friend request. Uh, for, uh, Instagram, I have Galloglass three G. It has my, you know, my company logo on there as well. Um, so I do a lot of like, uh, you know, a lot of work, work related, obviously to the, the three G company on there. Also have a TSG blades. You should be able to look that up on Instagram. But we, I haven't posted a whole lot. I'm waiting for our website to go live before we do kind of our official

• 1:35:32Speaker 05

  online launch. And then also for, uh, for Instagram, the T L three, that's, uh, you know, that's just my personal one as well. I usually tag, if I'm sending a post on one, I'll tag the other one. So guys will be able to, to pick up on that. And also guys are interested in getting, uh, swag. It's out of the, uh, the Dallas, uh, Texas area. My swag company, just on the website, three G merch. Just, you know, that's how it's spelled out, like three G then a M E R C H dot com. It should pop up all the different, uh, you know, various, various, you know, hats, you know, T shirts, just got some hoodies in as well. Got a, like, you know, like little, like, you know, kind of Yeti style, you know, koozie cups and have a, have a plethora of other things we're going to be adding as well. Um, so again, yeah, just if guys are interested in that, just 3G merch.com.

• 1:36:16Jack Murphy?

  Awesome.

• 1:36:17Speaker 11

  Yeah, Trey, if you want, you can send us all those links and they will be in the description of this video in the show notes. So if you guys want to fi- follow Trey or any, or get some merch, check out the knives, anything, the links are in the description.

• 1:36:28Speaker 05

  Got it. Yeah. So the, on the knife website, it's going to be, we already own the name. It's going to be TSG blades.com. It's not live yet. We're having our, uh, web designer do the, uh, do the final, uh, you know, e-commerce, you know, um, all the stuff he's got to do. But, but definitely TS, uh, sorry, uh, TSG blades on Instagram. You'll be able to follow me there. And then, uh, TSG blades, you know, dot com will hopefully be live within the next week or two and we'll be able to start taking orders online.

• 1:36:54Jack Murphy?

  Awesome, man. Well, Trey, thank you for doing this interview and spending some time with us this evening. Really appreciate it, man.

• 1:37:01Speaker 05

  Oh, likewise, brother. I appreciate y'all having me on. Like I, like I mentioned before, dude, we gotta, we gotta start hanging out more than just once a year. Big work you've been like that.

• 1:37:08Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, man. You're, you're welcome up here anytime, man. Come smoke cigars together.

• 1:37:13Speaker 05

  Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, like J- J-Mad's actually coming down here in a, uh, in, in, uh, in June for a bit, you know, later on.

• 1:37:19Jack Murphy?

  Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:20Speaker 05

  So, yeah, I was saying, it's, it's still going out there. You can get a little, you know, get away for a quick little bro's trip. He's coming on Thursday evening. We're going to be doing some shooting and, uh, hanging out on, on that Friday. Then he's leaving Saturday morning, first thing. So this is.

• 1:37:32Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:37:47Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:37:58Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 1:38:03Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:38:09Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:38:29Speaker 09

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• 1:38:56Jack Murphy?

  Throw an invite out there if you have one. Yeah, I know, I might have to work that in there sometime this year.

• 1:39:03Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, thanks again, Trey. And for everyone else out there, we'll see you again next time. Thanks for joining us. And hey, don't forget to check out the Patreon. There's links down in the description, as always. So we'll see you guys next time. Thank you.

• 1:39:19Jack Murphy?

  Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show. If you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this, you can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com/the team house. And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of The Team House ad-free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast, Eyes On, with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, Mick Mulroy. That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad-free. And you support the channel and the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what has helped this company, this small business, survive, especially during our early years.

• 1:40:04Jack Murphy?

  And you are what continues to help this thing going even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page. And there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers. And we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month, we will mail you this patch as well.

• 1:40:36Jack Murphy?

  So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop. And additionally, they got T-shirts up there, water bottles, a tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and check them out and support the show.

• 1:40:52Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:41:07Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:41:18Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:41:23Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:41:29Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:42:18Jack Murphy?

  We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

• 1:42:25Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:42:39Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:42:50Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:42:56Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:43:01Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

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• 1:43:58Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:44:13Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:44:24Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:44:29Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:44:35Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:45:36Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:45:51Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:46:02Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:46:07Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:46:13Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:47:05Speaker 00

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  This is an advertisement for Zolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:48:07Speaker 13

  This is the moment, baby! This is the moment we separate the dogs from the boys. And if you ask me, I only got one question: Do you got that dog in you? Because it's never about the winners or the losers, but it is about the difference between those brave enough to put some action on the game and those who just want to watch from the sidelines eating off-brand pizza rolls. So sit down, lock in those pics, and trust that dog in you, underdog. At least your dog. Terms may apply.

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