#2441 - Paul Rosolie

Paul Rosolie is a conservationist, filmmaker, author, and founder of Junglekeepers. His new book, “Junglekeeper: What It Takes to Change the World,” is out now.www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/783873/junglekeeper-by-paul-rosolie/www.youtube.com/@Junglekeeperwww.junglekeepers.orgwww.paulrosolie.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Hello Jungleman.

• 0:13Speaker 03

  What's happening?

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you my brother.

• 0:14Speaker 03

  That's been a while.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  What's going on? You got books? You got notes?

• 0:16Speaker 03

  I got books.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Marshall's here with us.

• 0:18Speaker 03

  I got this for you. Yeah, a little note in there you can read later. Yeah, the brand new, that's what, back from the Amazon with that.

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  Nice. Marsha, say hi to everybody.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  I love that you bring, Marsha, has Marshall come on other podcasts?

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 0:32Speaker 03

  Or is it just?

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  He's been on a couple.

• 0:34Speaker 03

  You're a good boy. You're a good boy.

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  I just have to keep him from going under the wire, little buddy. I gotta keep him from getting under the... Come on up here, come on up here.

• 0:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:48Joe Rogan?

  He's the best.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  He is the best.

• 0:51Speaker 03

  He's soft, man. He's got, he's got amazing coat.

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  Big sweetie. Well, he gets groomed. Aw, thank you. Thank you for the kisses.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  Lie down.

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  Lie down, please. So...

• 1:04Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 1:05Joe Rogan?

  You released that video. I saw the video of the uncontacted tribe.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, hitting send on that was scary.

• 1:12Joe Rogan?

  Woo!

• 1:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 1:14Speaker 03

  I sent you, I sent you a message that day.

• 1:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  When that happened.

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you did. That is crazy. I've showed it to a few people, but we never showed it live. But it is... So, Marsha, you gotta lie down, buddy. You can't be climbing under the wires. Lie down, bubba.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  Good boy, good boy, good boy.

• 1:31Joe Rogan?

  That experience has to be so insane to contact legitimately uncontacted people. There they are.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38Joe Rogan?

  Ladies and gentlemen, do not look at their dongs.

• 1:41Speaker 03

  Do not. Well, I mean, you know, but also maybe take a style tip from them and tie them up.

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  Weird how they got their waist wrapped up, but they don't have their dongs wrapped up or their butthole.

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Well, it seems like they're trying to protect, or they're trying to keep lots of rope. I think rope is like their main thing. So that's how they carry all their rope.

• 2:02Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  And...

• 2:03Joe Rogan?

  They carry their rope around their waist.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  They carry their rope around their waist and they just want rope. They want rope and bananas.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  Is, do bananas grow in the Amazon?

• 2:13Speaker 03

  So bananas don't grow unless people plant them. So there's certain human settlements where, you know, you can find old bananas growing. But these, you know, plantains really is what this is.

• 2:22Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22Speaker 03

  And they were requesting them, what you see happening here is-

• 2:25Joe Rogan?

  They request them?

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Yes. They come out, and I mean, these are people coming out a thousand years late to society, and they're out on the beach, holding up their hands, saying, "No mole, we are the brothers." No mole means brothers. And so now we actually think that they call themselves the brothers.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  And their first thing was, "We want, want bananas." And so the local anthropologists that we were with, we were just there to, to work with the communities that we work with. And these, these guys came out across the beach, and you see them, they're holding, you know, they're holding their bows, and those bows are six-foot bows, seven-foot arrows. And we were said, you know, the anthropologists were saying, "Put down your weapons, put down your bows. Before you talk to us, this is, does not need to be violent." Because their first instinct is to defend themselves. And so there's maybe twenty, thirty of us, and the local guys had a couple of shotguns just in case for protection, because we were not initiating contact. That's the thing I've been explaining to everybody. We were just there, working in the community. They came out to us.

• 3:23Joe Rogan?

  So they knew you were there, and they came out to you, and how, does someone speak their language?

• 3:28Speaker 03

  There's one guy in the community that kinda speaks a little bit. They speak, in the community, they speak yine, the macho piro speak a derivation of that. And so he's, they're speaking in broken, in broken terms across, across the river. So they were so sort of shirts versus skins. We were on this side of the river, they were on that side of the river. And then, I, I mean, the, the courage of this guy to get in the river and go, you know, ten feet from them and push the canoe, there was no contact, no physical contact made. But he gave them these, these, these plantains, and then you notice when they take them, it's not like, "Oh yes, take the plantains, we'll go back in the jungle and divvy them up." It's like, what I get, I get. They're fighting over them, and they were all screaming and fighting over them. So there's desperation there.

• 4:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, I mean, I guess food is fucking hard to come by, right? I mean, the jungle is filled with life, but it's still, it's gotta be difficult to source, and you gotta do it every single day.

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Every single day.

• 4:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, there's no refrigeration, there's no preservation.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  No, so everything is instantaneous. You shoot a monkey, you gotta cook it and eat it. You know, you get a turtle, you gotta, you gotta eat it, you gotta open it and eat it. And so there's, you can, I mean, you can see there, there, there, there's, there's more, there's that, that questioning look on their face. They don't understand who really, who we are. And, and the, really, the only communications that we got was, we need, we need more food, and stop cutting down our trees. They wanted, they said, who are the bad ones? They said, of you, who are the bad ones? Why are you cutting down our, our, our biggest trees?

• 5:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, not just cutting down the trees, but also killing the indigenous people that protest it, that get in the way of it. If their tribe is centrally located in an area where they're chopping down the trees, they kill those people.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, and so right now, what we have is, we have the loggers and the gold miners coming in. And so since like, the last time I saw you, it was, it was, we were, we were nailing all these successes, adding acres to the reserve, because what we're doing is trying to create this corridor, which is gonna become a national park. We're trying to save this one river in the headwaters of the Amazon. And we had been on this success run, you know, from, from people hearing the stories, from things like this, people coming in and helping us do that. And then it started to change where we realized, okay, we're protecting so much land that the logging mafias and the narco traffickers started pushing back. And so now it's getting more serious. As we're getting closer to the finish line, it's getting harder, because they're going,

• 5:54Speaker 03

  we want this to remain wild. And we're going, we're trying to protect this, and the local communities are going, this is our forest. And the loggers and the narcos and the miners are coming from other places, and they're cutting down this forest. And so it's just, you know, I mean, everyone knows the Amazon is the lungs of the earth. Everyone knows it's got a, uh, it produces a fifth of our oxygen on our planet. It contains a fifth of the oxygen of the fresh water on our planet. So it's vital to global planetary stability. But we've already destroyed twenty percent of it. And so we're seeing the moisture cycle get broken. Twenty percent of the whole Amazon rainforest.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  That's insane.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  And that thing is

• 6:33Joe Rogan?

  It's so big.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Two point seven million square miles. And I think the lower forty eight is three point something million square miles.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  It's gigantic.

• 6:43Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And they've already killed off twenty percent of it.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Twenty percent of it's already gone.

• 6:48Joe Rogan?

  Is it, um, mostly cattle running? Like, what is, what are they, what are they doing it for?

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Cattle ranching accounts for sixty percent of Amazon deforestation. And then it's just development, roads. China has a new shipping port in Peru that they wanna, you know, create a, I think, a railroad over the Andes Mountains or through the Andes Mountains so they can start getting access to the Amazon for Asian markets.

• 7:12Joe Rogan?

  Is it true they carved out a giant pathway through the Amazon for a climate change conference?

• 7:18Speaker 03

  You know, I've been trying to figure out if that's true. I saw that go all over the internet.

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  But it's one of those things, like, who knows if that's real?

• 7:24Speaker 03

  That, and then the other one is they're like, you know, Swedish billionaire bought this much of the Amazon. And it's like, but what's his name? They keep saying that, and I'm like, I don't.

• 7:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's put it into perplexity and find out if that's true. The, uh, whether or not they carved out a pathway through the Amazon for a climate change summit. Cause that sounds like horseshit.

• 7:44Speaker 03

  That just sounds too, too ridiculous.

• 7:46Joe Rogan?

  There's no way they would do something that stupid.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  I don't know, but I did see people.

• 7:50Joe Rogan?

  Also, why would they have a climate change summit in the Amazon? You gonna do it in a tent?

• 7:53Speaker 03

  No, I think they did it in Manaus. I mean, there are cities in the Amazon. There's Iquitos, there's Manaus.

• 7:58Joe Rogan?

  But you can fly into those cities. You don't need to carve out a fucking pathway.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  But I remember seeing a video of this guy and he was saying like, this is where the jungle used to be. And now it's just this big road. And I was like, but again, who in charge of the climate? Unless they were gonna have a climate conference and just local administrators and politicians said, well, we better get ready and clear this area. And like, maybe it wasn't intentional, I don't know.

• 8:21Joe Rogan?

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• 9:26Joe Rogan?

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• 10:45Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, it's on the BBC. Amazon forest failed to build road for climate summit.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 10:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, it's real.

• 10:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. A new four lane highway cutting through tens of thousands of acres of protected Amazon rainforest is being built for the COP30 climate summit in the Brazilian city of Belem. Oh my god.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Also wasn't Manaus.

• 11:10Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy. It aims to ease traffic to the city, which will help climate.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  It's easier to drive when there's no trees.

• 11:17Joe Rogan?

  Which hosts more than 50,000 people, including world leaders, at the conference in November. The state government touts the highway, highway sustainable. I love how they use that term. Sustainable is one of those wonderful terms you could just throw on things. Sustainable. Uh, credentials but lacks local and conservation, but some local and locals and conservationists are outraged at the environmental impact. Yeah, duh. That's crazy.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, look at that.

• 11:44Joe Rogan?

  You're chopping down trees to protest chopping down trees. That's fucking insane.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Sounds amazing.

• 11:50Joe Rogan?

  I just, you know.

• 11:53Joe Rogan?

  At what point in time are people gonna wake up?

• 11:55Speaker 03

  At one point in time, people are gonna wake up, and I think that that's, you know, that's sort of as I've been, I've just started this book tour and everything else, and it's, the thing I'm trying to impress, I was just talking about this the other night, is like, we've had world wars, we've had great famines, we had the dust bowls. Like, there's never been a time in history though before where we're looking at, is there going to be ecological collapse? The thing that I'm talking about with where they've cut 20% of the Amazon, scientists are warning that if we cut too much of the Amazon, that moisture cycle, I think the thing was that 20 trillion liters of water every day are pumped into the air from the Amazon, and that becomes the cloud system that rains back down and creates the Amazon rainforest. If you cut too much of that, you break the cycle.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  And that forest has been growing for something like 55 million years. I believe it formed in the Eocene. And so we are the generation that's going to decide, do we find a sustainable way to keep the animal, the Amazon rainforest functioning? Or are we going to break that cycle? And once we lose it, it's not going to come back.

• 12:58Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy. It's so crazy that people are so short sighted. They're like, we want to have cattle ranches.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  It's, it is, it is disorganization and apathy. It's like, we, we, we have the ability to organize and create. I mean, if you can organize an airport, you can, you can figure out a way to protect a forest. But the fact that it's in numerous Latin American countries, Brazil wants to develop. In Peru, you have the legal gold miners coming in. And now you have the pressure from the Asian markets. And, you know, we found that if you just, I mean, that's what we've been doing over the last 20 years is going to these gold miners and loggers and going, how much do you make? And they go, $20 a day. You go, do you want to make 60? And you get a cool shirt and you get health benefits and you get to ride a boat and you get a team. And they're like, yeah, that sounds so much better. And they're happy to come over, but they need the opportunity.

• 13:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we've talked about you doing that. I think that is really amazing. It's just crazy that it takes a person like you and your organization to like, put some sort of a dent in this, that this isn't some sort of a gigantic global effort, that there's not a lot of people that are recognizing this issue and saying, hey, this is a huge problem if this goes away.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  I think though, that there, I, I see, in the world that I exist in, I see that all over the world, there's people doing conservation projects and that we are at this point where there's enough happening where, I mean, you had, uh, E.O. Wilson advocating for the half earth policy where it's, you know, at least half of the earth has to remain ecosystems. If you break too much down, if you ruin our ocean fisheries, you cut the rainforests and the forests, you're going to ruin the weather.

• 14:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  The stuff that comes standard with life on earth is going to be depleted.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  And so I think, you know, you see tiger numbers going up in India. You see that there's actually been an increase in forest cover globally, but in some of the most important areas, like the Amazon, it's just wild. And I mean, that's what we're doing is. You know, the guy JJ that I work with, who's local, he's been trying to, he's been saying this for years. I mean, since we saw each other, he got, which I don't know how this happened. I don't know how some of this stuff happens, but we got a, we got an email one day from Time, and they were like, we're selecting our, you know, a hundred, hundred climate leaders of 2024. And they're like, JJ's one of them. And I have no idea how

• 15:18Speaker 03

  the people at Time select this, but they chose this. I mean, JJ grew up in an indigenous community barefoot. He didn't have shoes until he was 13. And it was because he saw his forest get destroyed, and because he saw the fish vanish from the rivers as nets came in. And then as chainsaws came to the region, he saw the trees go down. He went, we gotta protect the next river. And so he's the one that, you know, when I went down there at 18 years old, he's the one that was like, look, you gotta help me protect this. And of course, at 18 years old, I was like, how? How do I do that? How, how on earth is that possible? And then when we started seeing the smoke on the horizon, and we started hearing the chainsaws, and it got more urgent, I started telling these stories, and then the anaconda stories, and the everything else, the first book that

• 16:02Speaker 03

  I wrote. And little by little, Jane Goodall, people helped along the way. Joe Rogan helped along the way.

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm happy to get the word out, because I, I mean, it's, it's kind of insane that it's happening. But it's also, that place is such a magical place. And it has such an insane history that we're, we're just starting to understand the history of the people that live there. I mean, through the use of LIDAR, they're just starting to understand that the entire place was massively populated, and that a lot of the plants that exist in the Amazon are actually agriculture plants that went, you know, went rogue when the people were depopulated because people brought in smallpox.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  I gotta push back on that. That's, I feel like that's a theory that's been becoming prevalent as a theory.

• 16:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, sure, there was a jungle before. Because even in the lost city of Zee, I mean, even the talk, what is it, Percy Fawcett? The people that went there, they talked about the Amazon being a lush rainforest. And these enormous cities that were incredibly complex. Before the jungle swallowed them up. So it's clear that there was some form of jungle there already.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 17:20Joe Rogan?

  But that these plants that they grew for agriculture were the ones that had, you know, once people stopped tending them and taking care of them, they overwhelmed the rest of the forest.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, a friend sent me a clip and you, I think you were talking to Tom Segura and you went, you know, and the crazy thing about the Amazon, and you went, it's largely man-made. And I was like, and I like threw something and I was like, no, it's not.

• 17:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's find out why we said that. Let's pull that up, put, run that into perplexity and see what articles we get. Because what they're saying is that these plants, the number, if I believe, if I'm not misstating, the numbers that they exist in are not natural.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  But that's only around these ancient sites. And so I went and did a deep dive into this. And the sites that they've studied are along the watersheds. And so in the Amazon, you have terra firma, which is sort of dry forest, and then it dips into the river basin and you have floodplain. Most of these cities existed on floodplains. And so where the scientists are able to go is up the rivers, and they go to the edges of these floodplains where they find ancient human settlements. And that's where you find terra prata soil, which is human engineered. And that's where you find, there'll be like a higher incidence of certain trees or certain plants.

• 18:33Joe Rogan?

  What are these trees?

• 18:35Speaker 03

  And so like bananas, for example, or sometimes they'll plant a higher amount of Brazil nut trees.

• 18:40Joe Rogan?

  See, here it is, our sponsor, Perplexity, which is always accurate. Estimates suggest that roughly 10 to 15% of the Amazon standing forest shows clear signs of being man-made, or strongly shaped by long-term indigenous management. Not planted as uniform tree farms, but modified over thousands of years. The Amazon that looks wild has been influenced by pre-Columbian indigenous agroforestry, soil enrichment, Amazon dark earth, that's terra prata.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:09Joe Rogan?

  And species selection, rather than being a purely untouched wilderness. These systems differ from modern plantations. They are diverse semi-natural forests enriched with useful trees and crops rather than rows of single commercial species. So, the idea of the terra prata was that a lot of the Amazon soil is not good for agriculture. Is that correct?

• 19:31Speaker 03

  It's barren.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

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• 20:43Speaker 03

  It used to be a vast inland sea.

• 20:45Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yes. When it separated from Africa, the Congo and the Amazon used to be joined in some sort of proto Congo system. And then when they separated, the Amazon, South America hit up against the Nazca Plate, the Andes Mountains shot up. And then the salinated water drained out, and that's why we still have inland freshwater stingrays, manatees, pink river dolphins.

• 21:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that makes sense.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  And so that happened over millions of years as the salinated water.

• 21:13Joe Rogan?

  Over millions of years, the saltwater dolphins adapted to freshwater.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

  And is that why they became pink?

• 21:19Speaker 03

  They became pink, I think, because they've lost their pigmentation. They have terrible eyesight. Um, they almost don't need to see because you don't in the in that sediment rich water. They're using they're using sonar.

• 21:32Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's crazy.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow, so they've become almost blind?

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Uh, all the fish you pull out these giant catfish, they hardly have eyes. They have like light sensing organs.

• 21:44Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  You can't see. I mean, there's there are clear rivers in the Amazon, which I would love to. I've never been to one. And like the streams are clear, but the Amazon River itself is nothing. Everyone's like, oh, you should bring a GoPro in the river with you. And I'm like, for what? You're not gonna see anything.

• 21:58Joe Rogan?

  It's just sediment.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  But the thing that that that the that this this theory about the the Amazon is even human engineered is wrong. Because when you look at the size of the Amazon, you look at that 2.7 million miles. It's it's that they've said that what they're not getting is that in the areas that these people have been studying with LiDAR and through this anthropological digging. They're saying it's more than we thought. There's certainly more human settlements than we previously thought. There maybe were a few million people there before Pizarro and and and the explorers came. But when you don't what you don't realize is that between the rivers, between each river, which is the majority of the Amazon is this terra firma giant jungle with hundreds of miles between the rivers.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  Nobody's been there. And so I just was reading a scientific paper. It was saying they went out and sampled those areas and it showed absolutely no sign of human engineering. And so most of the forest.

• 22:55Joe Rogan?

  In terms of the growth of the plants, but did they do LiDAR to see if there's previous structures?

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Well, the good thing with the LiDAR is that they fly over. And so LiDAR confirmed that over those human areas, like you get like a river confluence where two rivers are coming together.

• 23:08Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  There'll be a human settlement there. And in those areas, they find that the terra prata, they'll find that the plants occur in different abundance and diversity than in the other places. But that the this this message that the Amazon itself was engineered by ancient humans or prehistoric humans is not actually accurate. It was a wild jungle.

• 23:25Joe Rogan?

  So do you think they're saying it for clickbait?

• 23:27Speaker 03

  I think they're saying it because people build their careers on, you know, if you come out and say, I have a new theory about how this formed, it gets attention. There's even a and nothing against, um, what's his name?

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Graham Hancock.

• 23:42Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Um, for a while, everyone was like, oh, Paul Rose used to debate Graham. No, I don't, I got nothing against Graham Hancock. He's great. Um, but, but it's just, the messaging isn't, is, is becoming that the Amazon was kinda man-made. And so what happens is you get leaders like in Brazil going, well, if the Amazon was really man-made, then we can manage it now.

• 24:00Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  And that it's just not, it's just not accurate.

• 24:03Joe Rogan?

  I see.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  If you look, if you look at the, and even Smithsonian did an article where they said, these are the current things that are coming out. These are the theories. And then it went, yeah, but these theories discount the fact that 95% of the Amazon rainforest has not been surveyed in this way. And most of it shows that these are just wild ecosystems that have been growing since the dawn of time for the last 55, 30 million years. And it's just been speciating and growing and evolving on its own. And it's only in these tiny areas that humans have done this sort of engineering where there, there were tribes, the first one to come down the Amazon, he mentioned that, um, there were tribes that had sectioned off parts of the river and they were growing the giant river turtles. And that was their prime source of protein. So they figured out how to get protein.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  Giant river turtle.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  Oh, tremendous. They're like three or four feet across, sort of, the carapace.

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  Show me a giant river turtle, Jamie.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Oh, they're huge.

• 24:53Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  They're monstrous. Absolutely. We don't have them where we are.

• 24:56Joe Rogan?

  Bigger than sea turtles? Like those sea turtles that you get in Hawaii?

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Sea turtle size. They're huge. They're absolutely monstrous.

• 25:02Joe Rogan?

  Alright.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  And then we found fossil, well, we were there, we were on a beach, we found fossils of an eight-foot river turtle. Yeah, but see like that.

• 25:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so just like the ones you find in Hawaii. Those sea turtles are like, if you go to the big island.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  You could swim with them. It's pretty dope.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, these guys don't have flippers though. They still have, they still have claws.

• 25:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Those are monster turtles.

• 25:22Joe Rogan?

  Massive.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  And so.

• 25:23Joe Rogan?

  And so they were growing them, farming them for food.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  They were farming them. And so in areas like that, you're gonna see agriculture, you're gonna see pottery, you're gonna see terra prata, you're gonna see things where there was a small civilization by the edge of the river. And then in the other 98% of the Amazon. No one's ever been there.

• 25:41Joe Rogan?

  Have you had sea turtle before? Have you, this kind of turtle, whatever it is, have you eaten it yet?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Oh, sea turtle, no, this?

• 25:46Joe Rogan?

  This turtle, yeah?

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 25:48Joe Rogan?

  What is it like?

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Uh, uh, uh, it's kind of slimy. It's not like anything. It's very strange because you, they cook it and just, you know, everyone, everyone always go, how could you be a conservationist and eat the animal? Because when you go to someone's house and they live on the side of a river and they go, we're having dinner, that's what they're serving.

• 26:04Joe Rogan?

  You gotta eat with them, yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  You gotta eat with them.

• 26:06Joe Rogan?

  I wouldn't do that, man. You're ruining the earth.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, how could you? Let me throw paint on it.

• 26:11Joe Rogan?

  Let me glue myself to the shell.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  Yes, that's what I'm gonna do next time. And I showed you that video where I'm sharing the monkey head with the girl. And I was like, I was babysitting a six-year-old and she was like, it's lunchtime. And I was like, well, what did your parents leave you for lunch? And she like opens this pot and pulls out a monkey head and she was like, this. So we put it on the fire, warmed it up, and then we both sat there just like ripping, I would like rip off a piece for her because I was stronger and give it to her. And then she was like, no, no, no, I want the ear. And she like, she would rip off the ear. Like, we just sat there eating a monkey face. And so the turtle, they cook it in the shell. They'll just like, you know, they'll just like slit its throat, throw it on the fire. And so it cooks in the shell. Then they part the shell. And then you kind of just like, it's like a slow cooked, like when the meat falls off the bone.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  You just throw a little salt on there.

• 26:55Joe Rogan?

  And it's kind of, how do they get their salt? Is that something they trade?

• 26:58Speaker 03

  They trade for it. They trade for it. I mean, the people I'm dealing with have access to the outside. Even the really remote communities that are two days upriver, they, they, they trade with the outside world. They have some interaction with money. And so that's one of the things that we're doing as an organization is saying, okay, what do you want your future to look like? Because right now you have a couple of shotguns, you got a couple of chainsaws, you got a couple of boats. And those things make you want money, but you also want to eat fish out of the river every day.

• 27:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  You also want to eat monkeys every day. And these are your staples. And they're like, you know, if, if, if you cut down more of these trees, there will be less monkeys. If you shoot too many, like, it's not like they have deer tags where it's like a monitored thing. They just, they. They're not understanding this, you know, when it was a bow and arrow, it was kind of a fair game.

• 27:43Joe Rogan?

  Alright.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Now the shotgun, it's like you can go shoot whatever you want.

• 27:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, every time you pointed a monkey, it's dead.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:49Joe Rogan?

  It's not a tricky hunt.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  And so we're worried, these guys are, you know, working with us as rangers and we're building this develop- developing this relationship with the local communities of saying, how do you, do you want to continue living this way? Do you want your kids to live this way? And the answer usually is yes, but with better health and education.

• 28:08Joe Rogan?

  So we want to- So yes, but, that's interesting. So they like that way of life? They want, they want to continue that way of life? Because it's the only thing they've known, I mean, has, have any of these people ever gone to like any of these other cities that are fairly close or that they could reach and, and seen what that life is like?

• 28:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, we bought, we brought one of the communities, they were having trouble with the Peruvian government getting recognized as an indigenous community. And they were having this trouble for 15 years and we, we used, you know, now we have lawyers and, and people and we have an office and all this stuff in Peru. And so we, we went and sat down with them, we said, okay, why are you having this trouble? I mean, you clearly are an indigenous community, what's, what's the holdup? And the holdup was that it takes two days for them to get to the nearest town. When they get to the nearest town, they're scared of the traffic, they have no idea what it has to do with paperwork. They have to sit in an office, I mean, these are people, they're like putting their bows and arrows and guns down and walk, walking into an office and sitting there in the air conditioning. And they're like, next, and they're like, sit, and they're like, do you have form like I-227B? And they're like, I-2 what, ba-ba? And they're like, what's your social security number?

• 29:12Speaker 03

  And they're like, ah, you know, they got some like fish shells in there, you know? And so what we realized is, was that they were just having trouble with the administrative part. And so we put our lawyers on it and we got them their indigenous titled land. And so now no one can take that away from them. And so for that, we brought them all to the city, we had a big conference and we had a big celebration about it. And they all had the feathers on their head and they were all celebrating and now they're safe.

• 29:38Joe Rogan?

  Do they get, is there any pushback? Like, is there any like political influence by the, whatever it is, miners, ranchers? Anyone who tries to stop that from happening, bribe people to try to take over the land of these people?

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And the Amazon is a war zone of, of influence. And so you have, I mean, the miners, if anybody tries to protest the gold mining, they kill you. So one of the lawyers that I was working with, his father had come out and said, look, as a local Peruvian person in the jungle, I want this to stop. They can't, they're destroying. There's a, Jamie, there's a photo in the folder that says, I think it says sandstorm or something, but it's just, it's not even, again, deserts are actually ecosystems. This is a wasteland. They've, they've destroyed hundreds of thousands of acres in the Peruvian Amazon. You can see it from space. It's this horrible scar and they've cut the trees, burned the forest, and then they've sucked the land up. And then they, they take the

• 30:37Speaker 03

  bottom of the sediment and they use mercury to bind the gold out of the sediment. And then they burn the mercury off the gold, releasing it into the air.

• 30:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, great.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. So that then in the rain, it comes down as mercury rain, which gets into the fish, which gets into the people.

• 30:51Joe Rogan?

  And then also the miners must be getting mercury poisoning.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  The miners all have mercury poisoning, birth defects, health problems, respiratory issues. I mean, it's, yeah, some of the fires. Um, that's, that's.

• 31:05Joe Rogan?

  Is that you?

• 31:05Speaker 03

  That is me. That is me, running out there with my.

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  So you're right there?

• 31:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, as soon as we see forests burning, we, we, we run towards it.

• 31:13Joe Rogan?

  And it rains there a lot, right? So like, how long does this forest fire last?

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Well, they do it in September, when the, it's like, it's like July through September, when the forest is at its driest. They come in and they cut the forest and they leave it down.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  What was that picture you just showed me, Jamie?

• 31:29Speaker 03

  That's a horrible picture.

• 31:31Joe Rogan?

  Was that animals burned alive on a tree?

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Two baby jaguars that were burned alive.

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so people.

• 31:37Joe Rogan?

  And they're just stuck on the tree, burned alive? That's crazy.

• 31:40Speaker 03

  People talk about, you know, we're losing ecosystems. And it's like, it's not just about us. These animals live there. They have nowhere else to go. And so there's massive individuals suffering for, I mean, there's millions of animals on a single tree. And so then when you have this, these, these fires where they cut the forest and just burn everything, this, I mean, those trees would have been filled with monkeys and birds and, and, and the snakes, you know, they, they get scared. They burrow deeper into their hole and then they're, then it burns.

• 32:07Joe Rogan?

  And so this is all for gold mining?

• 32:10Speaker 03

  This was, this was for cattle ranching, this one.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  This was invaders on our river that come in from other places. They would, they set up cows, they set up papaya. And I mean, this is what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to be this lush, verdant, ancient rainforest. Filled with wildlife. I mean, the cacophony of sound. When you, when you're, when you're going to sleep in your tent at night and you're out in a place like that, it's just this throbbing, pulsing symphony. It's incredible. The magic of that place of real wilderness is wild. I mean, this is play that, that particular shot was. It's, we had to go for days to reach that spot, you know, all day on the river camp, all day on the river camp, you know, you're going up rapids, you're going up the waterfalls. To get to these places that nobody can go. And there's a, there's an example of it's.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  That was a, a, a specifically a location where they've studied and they've found that there's never been a human settlement there. It's just a corner of the Amazon, ever.

• 33:05Joe Rogan?

  Have they done LIDAR in these areas where they say the people have never been?

• 33:08Speaker 03

  I don't know for sure.

• 33:09Joe Rogan?

  That's where it gets weird, right? Because like they've done LIDAR on some of these places that were like very lush and tropical. And then they find these structures underneath it. They find these areas that clearly had, you know, some sort of pathways and like. Geometric patterns that indicate foundations of buildings.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, I mean, those, those are there. I just think that right now the problem is that it's getting grossly overstated. How much of the Amazon, if you take it, take it as a football field and you go, man, I thought it was only in this much of the football field, you know, in a few inches of it. And then you find out there's actually 10 feet of the football field that was, there's, there's still the rest of the football field is still wild.

• 33:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  And so what I think that's the, the message that's getting lost is they're going, there's a lot more here than we thought. That doesn't mean the whole thing.

• 33:56Joe Rogan?

  I watched a documentary once on this guy who was losing his mind. He was a scientist who was a biologist who's convinced that the giant sloth still existed. In the Amazon and they couldn't find it. And that these people who lived there were telling him, we see them, we know what they are, we have a name for them. And this guy had been there for years and he was losing his mind because he couldn't find it. And he sort of staked his academic reputation on the idea that this sloth existed. Couldn't find anything, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  It doesn't mean it's not there.

• 34:27Joe Rogan?

  There's so much.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  There's so much and the locals are never wrong.

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  Like imagine if you were looking for a coyote and you had to look through the entire like there was a thousand coyotes in the center of the United States. And you started in Pennsylvania and you were hiking your way like I don't see any fucking coyotes. But there's a thousand of them that are in North Dakota and you've got to find this like that's essentially.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  That's a great way of thinking of it. It's the same thing with rattlesnakes. When I was a teenager, I was exploring the mountains of of New York. And I was going, it says there's rattlesnakes here. So I was just walking around finding every kind of snake. I'd be like, well, where are the rattlesnakes? And you don't realize the wildlife occurs in populations. And so the rattlesnakes were all near rattlesnake dens. And so then I started making friends with other guys that were into snakes and they're like, yeah, we know where they are. It's only you see that mountain right there. It's like it's on the side of that. Go to that in the morning when there's sun and you'll see them basking. It's like you gotta go to where they live.

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  Right. And you have to talk to the people that actually know. Well, this guy was trying to do that, but you there was this this one scene of exasperation. Where he was like sitting down saying that I stake my entire reputation on horse shit, you know?

• 35:40Speaker 03

  Did he, did he?

• 35:41Joe Rogan?

  Buddy, you have to pee. He keeps getting up, which is unusual for him. Can you tell Jeff to come and get him? See if he can. He might have to pee. He's generally, he's happy to chill.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll just lay down.

• 35:53Joe Rogan?

  He keeps getting up and he's huffing, which is like he communicates that way. Like when he wants to eat, he comes up to me and he huffs, you know? My buddy is the best. He's the best.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  No, but I think that that's that's that's the truth is that it's it's people think it's like you can just go find this stuff and it's that the the secrets in this world are hidden. For a reason and even if there is a tribe that knows about the giant ground sloths, they're not gonna tell us. They're not gonna tell someone from the outside. So it might be like one, one valley between two mountains where there's still a population.

• 36:28Joe Rogan?

  Bathroom, bring him back in here. I'm pretty sure he has to. This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play by play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 37:13Joe Rogan?

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• 37:57Joe Rogan?

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• 38:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:28Joe Rogan?

  Thanks, Jeff.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  I wouldn't, you know.

• 38:31Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's gotta be a bunch. Well, there's so many plants that they find there. That, this is an interesting statistic. Find out what percentage of pharmaceutical drugs, the compounds emanate from the Amazon. It's an enormous percentage.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of the base drugs, quinine came from the Amazon, the first cure for malaria. I know captopril, which was a blood pressure medication, came from bushmaster venom. That was in the 90s. There's, there's so much. I mean, I just got whacked by a stingray, hard.

• 39:02Joe Rogan?

  I saw that. It got your foot, right?

• 39:04Speaker 03

  It was brutal.

• 39:05Joe Rogan?

  What was that like? What happened?

• 39:06Speaker 03

  That was brutal. I mean, that in-

• 39:08Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you've been hit by everything.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  I, I had this- Dude, I, I, my body is a Jackson Pollock painting of scars.

• 39:14Joe Rogan?

  Do you, do you ever get checked for parasites? Cause you must have all of them.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  I do, I do.

• 39:17Joe Rogan?

  Estimates typically, typically say that about 25% of modern, modern pharmaceutical drugs are derived from rainforest plants. And many of the, of those known examples come from the Amazon, but there's no precise peer-reviewed percentage, just for the Amazon alone. Most popular figures, you see like 25% of medicines come from the Amazon, actually refer to all tropical rainforest, not specifically the Amazon. But the, the thing is like, how much of the Amazon has not been explored? And how many potential pharmaceutical drugs? Or, you know, here's, that's the term, right? Pharmaceutical drugs. What about natural remedies exist in the Amazon?

• 39:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 39:56Joe Rogan?

  That aren't, you, you don't need to patent them and sell them at a fucking pharmacy and-

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, look, so we have, you know, we have, we have Neosporin. You get a cut, it looks a little infected, you put Neosporin on it. It might work. Down there, we have a tree that you, we, we tested this and it, it murders bacteria. It's like a hundred times more potent than Neosporin.

• 40:19Joe Rogan?

  What's it called?

• 40:19Speaker 03

  The Sangre de Drago. It's not even a big secret. Like, people know about this. Every time I post about it, everyone's like, yeah, we know about that. We use it.

• 40:27Joe Rogan?

  No, kidding.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  But no one's ever turned it into a-

• 40:29Joe Rogan?

  Can it grow in Austin?

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 40:31Joe Rogan?

  Can I get some Sangre, how do you say it?

• 40:33Speaker 03

  Sangre de Drago, the dragon's blood.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  Sangre de Drago.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Sangre de Drago.

• 40:37Joe Rogan?

  Sangre de Drago.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Yes, dragon's blood tree.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  I'm watching Game of Thrones again. That sounds like something Khaleesi would say.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  The mother of dragons.

• 40:47Joe Rogan?

  I mean, and by the way, Khal Drago could have used that, as he died of an infection.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  I mean, right, the thing that took him down.

• 40:53Joe Rogan?

  That didn't make any sense to me. I thought that was a plot hole.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  No, see.

• 40:55Joe Rogan?

  Here it is, dragon's blood. Sangre de Drago.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, but is it good, is it sourced well?

• 41:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's probably made by some asshole, it's probably like 1%, the rest of it's corn syrup.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  Cause we just go, we just hit the tree with the machete, and then you have a spoon, and then you put it on your thing, and actually, exactly that, when I saw that, I thought the opposite. I was like, oh, this great warrior, I was like, that's such a great plot twist that just a nick kills him. I mean, I just had a staph infection in my leg, from one mosquito bite, that just got itchy. And then it spread, and it spread, and it spread, until I had to be on double antibiotics, they cultured it, and it was MRSA.

• 41:32Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  And it's like, I would have done.

• 41:34Joe Rogan?

  MRSA in the Amazon.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Well, I got MRSA years ago at, I had dengue and I'd gone to a clinic in the city, which MRSA usually lives in the hospitals, in the human areas.

• 41:45Joe Rogan?

  Right, because it's a medication-resistant staph infection, that's what MRSA stands for, right?

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Yep, and so, I had gotten it, and so I have a tendency now, I've been a little bit compromised in terms of infections, because it's living 20 years in the jungle, and so I had already gotten it, so chances are, that's why, it doesn't exist. And that's the thing, you see in the wild jungle, you don't have malaria, you don't have rabies, you don't have dengue, because the human population is so low that it doesn't spread. A mosquito bites you, here, the next person that's gonna bite is me or Jamie. Mosquito bites me in the city, and then I go out into the rainforest, there's no one else for it to bite, it's gonna bite an anteater.

• 42:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  And so it's not gonna spread like that, whereas if we have a town of loggers, that's why when you go to these like logging and mining camps, the diseases.

• 42:32Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  They're just, I mean, there's this thing called, this type of flea called a piki that burrows into your feet and lays eggs. There's leishmaniasis, there's malaria, dengue, what's the bird, zika virus, there's all these crazy things, but we don't have that out in the jungle, because, I mean, the ecosystem, the frogs eat most of the mosquito larva.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  The mosquito larva like like bromeliad cups or puddles. Well, bromeliad cups and puddles are filled with tadpoles. And then, of course, there's turtles in the puddles, eating the tadpoles. And then there's other things eating the turtles. Everything's eating everything.

• 43:08Joe Rogan?

  Ecosystem.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Ecosystem regulates it. And when you ruin that, so then you cut down the forest. Now you have puddles sitting in the sun and they're all twitching with mosquito larva. So then you have tons of mosquitoes. And so that's how nature, they say, you know, mangrove forests will stop tsunamis from destroying a town because they'll stop the rush of the water. Well, forests will keep you safe by not only producing rainfall that'll come down on your crops, but also making sure that the ecosystem's not out of balance. So you're not covered in mosquitoes and parasites.

• 43:38Joe Rogan?

  When I lived in LA, I moved into a house in Encino that I was renting. And the, no one had lived there in quite a while. And they had left the water in the pool. And when I was going out to look at the pool, the pool was completely green. And there was things swimming in it, like, I mean, like, school swimming. And I go, what is that? And the guy goes, that's mosquito larva. I was like, oh. I'm like, no way. And he's like, yeah, we have to kill them. We have to drain the pool. And like, I, I was just thinking about how many times I was gonna get bit once these things hatched. It was crazy, like, it was like watching little fish swim around, little hatchlings.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Yep. And then thank God for dragonflies, because they'll lay, they'll lay their, their young in the same thing. And dragonfly larva will go murk those things. They're savage. And then you get tadpoles.

• 44:27Joe Rogan?

  You got Wild Kingdom right in your pool.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Right in your pool, right in your little cup. But, but when I got stung by the stingray, it was crazy, because, so the, the, I had been walking.

• 44:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're back, buddy.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  I'd been walking with shoes in this stream. I took my shoes off, because it's like, oh, I'm at a waterfall. I know this waterfall. I love this waterfall. Playing in the waterfall. And man, it's the one thing, bullet ants, caiman bites, snake bites, I've, I've had it all. The stingray bite was the one thing.

• 44:50Joe Rogan?

  Worse than bullet ants.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  A hundred thousand times worse.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Yes. And I'd seen one guy get, get stung by a stingray. And he had nerve damage, a systemic infection up his leg and his whole body. And he didn't walk for months. So when I got hit, I felt, this is what I felt. I felt, in the flash of a second, I felt the stingray barb go into my foot. And it wagged its tail under my skin. So it flayed the skin off the arch of my foot and came out.

• 45:19Joe Rogan?

  And it has venom?

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, so there, all the skin is.

• 45:24Joe Rogan?

  Man, that is nasty. Did you put the skin of the dragon or whatever the hell it is?

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Better, so I, I, I, I sat and of course, my first thing was, I was like, okay, I gotta document.

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  I'm unconscious, I'm unconscious at this point.

• 45:37Joe Rogan?

  You're in that much pain?

• 45:38Speaker 03

  Yes, I was blacking out.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  Marshall's freaking out, he's like, what?

• 45:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I was literally, I knew, I knew people were filming and I was like, I didn't, you know, you wanna be tough. You wanna be like, alright, I just got bit by a stingray, it's gonna be fine. I was not tough.

• 45:50Joe Rogan?

  It says, I don't remember any of this.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that, that first thing right there, I started taking the video, my friend comes up to me and he was like, hey, man, he's like, we gotta, you gotta stop. He's like, cause in a minute, you're gonna go under. I was like, what do you mean, I'm gonna go under? And he's like, once the venom hits your system, he's, he goes, you're not gonna be able to walk and we're, we're still a few miles from the river. And he's like, we gotta get you to the boat and we can't carry you.

• 46:12Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  And so they got me back to the station, I don't remember any of it. They had me laying on my back and I was in so much pain, I couldn't put my foot down. I mean, I was making deals with God, I was going, if I, if you, if you just make the pain go away, I was like, I'll go to church every day, I was like, I'll never smoke a cigarette again.

• 46:27Joe Rogan?

  What is that thing on your foot?

• 46:28Speaker 03

  So that's the plant medicine, that's where I'm going with this.

• 46:30Joe Rogan?

  I'll never smoke a cigarette every day, that's funny.

• 46:33Speaker 03

  They, that, that pack there, they went to two different trees and they removed compounds from the tree. One was the bark and one was the fiber and they put it into a leaf pack and they cook it on a pan and they heat it and it makes this plant poultice. And they put this boiling hot piece of plant material, it's like a, it's like a fish cake and they put it against the wound. And even that burned, but it felt better than the, than the venom and it starts to suck out the venom. And so when they took it off my foot after like, this is, this is them getting the, getting the plant material where they know the medicines and that's been handed down through the generations.

• 47:08Joe Rogan?

  So they're just shaving it off with a knife?

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Yes, you see this few different colors.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  And then they make like a cake of all this stuff?

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Uh huh. And then they heat that up until it's scalding, press it against your foot.

• 47:18Joe Rogan?

  And you've been in the Amazon for a long time. Is this the first time it's ever happened to you? You've been stung by a stingray?

• 47:23Speaker 03

  This is the first time.

• 47:24Joe Rogan?

  Now, how does it happen? You just, you step in the wrong place?

• 47:27Speaker 03

  JJ's nephew, so he knows, he's got the indigenous training. He knew exactly what to do.

• 47:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so that's all the venom. So now-

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, it pulls the venom?

• 47:36Speaker 03

  All that black stuff is all the, all the, the denatured blood that came out of my foot. And so for about four hours, I was in this state of just level 10 pain, just white hot pain. I couldn't talk to anybody. I couldn't do anything. People were coming to me and they were like, what can we do? And I was like, just leave me alone. I was like, I don't want you to look at my face. You know, I was coming in and out. And then, and then by nighttime, it had, it had gotten, this was at night where I was like, okay, the pain had subsided, but I didn't get nerve damage and I didn't get a huge infection because they had this indigenous plant medicine to save me.

• 48:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  The last guy that I knew that got it, he'd went straight to the hospital and they had no idea how to deal with it. The locals know how to deal with this stuff.

• 48:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  That's tree medicine.

• 48:18Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. So what, what happens? You just stepped in the wrong spot? That's all it is?

• 48:23Speaker 03

  I mean, I've stepped on stingrays before and you feel them flutter and I, one time I even felt the barb go like past my foot, but it didn't penetrate. I do not know how, I mean, it must've been a small one or something, but it just right up through the, through the arch of my foot. And what's funny is it just-

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  I would never walk barefoot ever.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  I walk barefoot all the time, but, but, but just days before, not days before that, about a month before that, I'd fallen off of something like a 50 or 60 foot cliff and just rolled down and bruised ribs and gotten all banged up. I'd climbed up this cliff thinking I could, I was like, I see this root up there. I can get up to the top. And at the top, my strength just ran out and my feet were pedaling and I had no footholds and I just went tumbling down this thing. And I just went, you know what? I said, I've had infections. I've had crocodile bites. I've had, I've had dengue. I said, um, I got a week left in the Amazon. I'd been in the Amazon for six months. And I was like, I'm doing nothing dangerous. No tree climbing, no anaconda hunting, no croc diving, none of that stuff. And I was just swimming in a waterfall, bam.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Just.

• 49:26Joe Rogan?

  How long ago was this?

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Put me out of the game. That was actually in April. I waited to post it until now, but everyone's everyone's messaging me going, how's your foot? And I'm like, it was months ago, but I was like, it is better.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  How long did it take before it was better?

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Honestly, two days. I was on my feet in two days. It was fine. Yeah.

• 49:40Joe Rogan?

  And if you went to the hospital?

• 49:42Speaker 03

  I did not go to the hospital.

• 49:43Joe Rogan?

  But if you did go to the hospital.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  I mean, the guy that, the guy that went to the hospital didn't walk for two months, had the necrosis and, and had a huge infection that he had to go get treatments for. I mean, he went back to his home country and had to continue being treated for months. I felt terrible. And him too, watching, watching someone roll back and forth in that type of agonizing pain, like Braveheart pain, like when they're just like opening him up. I mean, I just didn't know there was pain like that, you know? I mean, I've, I've, I've ripped open every part of my body and, and I, I just, this was, it's from the inside and it's pulsating and you just go, the other thing is you go, how much, how much of my year did I just miss? You know, am I gonna, it's like the, the one time I almost chopped my knee, uh, I almost cut the tendon that holds your kneecap on. And I was just like, man, did I just take

• 50:29Speaker 03

  myself out of the game for a year? You know, just like, come on. And so when that happened, I was like, this is gonna be so bad.

• 50:37Joe Rogan?

  And meanwhile, a couple of days later, you're walking around because they understood the medicine.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  The local guys know. Yeah.

• 50:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  That was awesome.

• 50:43Joe Rogan?

  Did you ask them how they know this stuff?

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Their father taught them and their mother taught them and their grandparents know. And so that's the thing with knowledge, indigenous knowledge all over the world. If you, if you listen to authors like Wade Davis, who writes a lot about indigenous wisdom, you know, this is stuff that's been one at a time gleaned from nature and, you know, you, you know better than most. You know, you're living out there. Who's the first person that figured out ayahuasca? You know, if we take this and this, we take this vine and then we take this and we boil them together. How many trials and errors? How many dead guys were there before one worked?

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  Right. And what was the motivation?

• 51:21Speaker 03

  And what was the motivation?

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  They said the jungle taught them how to do it.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  They did. They, the, the prevailing thing is that science and, and sort of, uh, the, like the statistics of, of trial and error are incomprehensible, given 40,000 plant species and all the different flowering and orchids and trees. And so it would take millennia if, if you did trial and error.

• 51:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  And the cost of human life to any civilization would make it too high. And so when they say that the gods gave us ayahuasca. That's the prevailing best thing we got is that it's a link between our world and the spirit world that the jungle gave us.

• 51:58Joe Rogan?

  Right, and the, you know, the other thing is like, how much of our senses have atrophied by modern civilization?

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, what kind of communication do you actually get from the forest? Like, is there, is it instincts, intuition, are there senses? Is there a feeling that you get where you get an understanding of combining two things? Because the jungle's actually got a way of communicating with you that's a non-verbal way?

• 52:27Speaker 03

  I think the jungle, I mean, I view it as almost a, you know, it's like, it's godlike, it's almost like a giant, complex sentient being. And so, you, if you listen to, if you watch, you know, if you walk the jungle with JJ, an indigenous tracker, he'll tell you, you listen to the birds, they'll tell you how fast you're allowed to walk.

• 52:45Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 52:47Speaker 03

  And what he, what he means is, you're walking through the forest on a sunny day, it's the afternoon, and everybody's chirping and making tons of noise, and all of a sudden everything goes quiet. And then you gotta figure out, you know, is that because there's a weather system coming in and we're about to be in a thunderstorm? Or is there a jaguar right over there? And everything around me knows. And it's like, the, the birds are the messengers of the forest. And so, you, even that, you start to become attuned to the frequency of the forest. And I notice, when I bring people in, that, you know, I've never been in the wild before, they, they walk loud, they're talking the whole time, they're not paying attention to that sort of.

• 53:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  You know, holistic view of where you are.

• 53:23Joe Rogan?

  We're so clunky. You know, modern civilized life has made us so clunky when it comes to the woods.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, just when I take people in the woods, if people have never hunted before, they're stepping on branches, snap.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  Snap.

• 53:36Joe Rogan?

  Kicking rocks over, like, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, talking loud.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  My favorite is walking in front of you, and then when the stick snaps back, like, you're having the sensitivity to like.

• 53:44Joe Rogan?

  They don't catch it, yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 03

  They don't catch it, like, come on. Just get smacked in the face, and like, thanks.

• 53:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just a lack of awareness, you know? It's like, if you've never been, you don't understand. But, I mean, I would imagine it's that times a million in the Amazon. And then, all the different things that are communicating. One of the things that they found out with, with monkeys. Is that monkeys have some sort of a language.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 54:09Joe Rogan?

  Where they can say a sound that means an eagle is there.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 54:13Joe Rogan?

  And that they will play tricks on other monkeys so that they can get to fruit.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:18Joe Rogan?

  So they will say that an eagle is there when an eagle's not there.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 54:22Joe Rogan?

  And then they'll go and steal the fruit.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  So they will lie. About an eagle being there.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  Not surprising.

• 54:28Joe Rogan?

  Get access to fruit.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  Lying monkeys does not surprise me. It's African vervet monkeys that I that I've read about that they have different calls, different words.

• 54:37Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 54:38Speaker 03

  For land predator, lion, eagle, and they can communicate these things. So I mean, they're speaking.

• 54:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  They're speaking.

• 54:44Joe Rogan?

  As are crows, I'm sure.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  Oh, God, yes.

• 54:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 54:48Joe Rogan?

  They're super intelligent.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, I don't know how we pull this up. I have it on YouTube, but there is this thing where we were coming down river. It was like seven in the morning. We'd been up at our, this is a communication with monkeys theme. As as we're coming down river, it's like seven in the morning and I'm I'm I'm always cold. So I'm sitting on the boat and I'm cold. I'm just like listening to music or something. And JJ is like, look, look, look. He's like, there's a spider monkey in the river. And I was like, there's always this, you know, spider monkeys cross rivers. That's okay. And he's like, no, no, the river is high right now. And there's all these whirlpools and currents. And so, yeah, I jump into the river.

• 55:20Joe Rogan?

  To save the monkey?

• 55:21Speaker 03

  To save the monkey. She couldn't get to the side. So I give her my paddle and she looks at me and she goes, no. She's like, I'm scared of you. And then I spoke to her in spider monkey.

• 55:29Joe Rogan?

  What did you say?

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Like that.

• 55:32Joe Rogan?

  She thinks you're gonna eat her.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  She thinks I'm gonna eat her, but as soon as I started going. Look, look. She's looking at me because I'm making the sound. And all of a sudden she goes, wait, wait, you you speak me language.

• 55:43Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  And then.

• 55:45Joe Rogan?

  Do it like you would do it.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  See, I'm making it right there. And she's looking at me.

• 55:50Joe Rogan?

  Trying to bite you or nothing?

• 55:51Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no. And then I'm like, look, it's okay. And they like their tail to be supported.

• 55:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's crazy, dude. She let you hold on to her.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  And so now she's relaxed.

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy, dude. You saved a monkey.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Only because I spoke her language and I learned her language from some of the orphans that I've rescued.

• 56:09Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy, man.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  And then she she was like, well, if you let, because I could have grabbed her like, you know, like animal control, like grabbed her by the neck. And I was like, you know what? Look, she's looking at me because I keep talking to her.

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  And then you got her over to the to the shore?

• 56:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, got her over to the side. And she kept looking at me like, what is, what?

• 56:24Joe Rogan?

  What happened when you put her down?

• 56:25Speaker 03

  I put her down. She ran away.

• 56:26Joe Rogan?

  She just ran away?

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  But not fast. She didn't run away like she was in terror.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, that I when I when I first did, I went

• 56:37Speaker 03

  and she looked at me and she went she looked at me and she like responded. She was like, what?

• 56:41Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. That's crazy.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  And that's one of those stories where if it wasn't on video and I said, I spoke to a spider monkey and she responded, people were like, yeah, bullshit.

• 56:50Joe Rogan?

  Right. I saved a spider monkey like, bitch, that was your pet.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  That looked like a pet. That looked like you had a relationship with it, like as you're holding on to the tail, like it knew you.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  When she was looking back, I mean, she was like, hey, thanks for the branch, you know? I was she because she was drowning. We saw her head go under a few times. She was really struggling. She was exhausted. And I know that this spider monkey, their tail is their fifth limb. They have this incredible finger pad that's like 12 inches long. And so it just just wraps. They always had their tail anchored on a branch. And so I I held her tail and I was like, I got you. Now hold on to the stick. I was like explaining it to her.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  And she's looking at me going, how the hell are you?

• 57:32Joe Rogan?

  That is so wild.

• 57:33Speaker 03

  It was. It was really cool. That was a I originally I was like, JJ, I was like, I don't want to get wet. She'll be fine. He was like, go get it. Go catch it. I was like, okay.

• 57:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Meanwhile, you've eaten spider monkey, haven't you?

• 57:43Speaker 03

  Well, sure.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  That doesn't mean I don't want to save him.

• 57:49Joe Rogan?

  Right. I would save a deer.

• 57:52Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 57:53Joe Rogan?

  But it does it feel it must feel really weird eating a primate.

• 57:58Speaker 03

  I wish I could say it, dude. I don't care.

• 58:00Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 58:01Speaker 03

  No. I mean, I've we've become very callous to certain things, but I mean, when people serve turtle now, I'm like, well, which one is it? You know, it's like, I don't. I don't really, you know, it's like ribeye or T-bone. Like, what are we? What are we eating?

• 58:11Joe Rogan?

  Is turtle good? Like, would you like order it at a restaurant?

• 58:14Speaker 03

  All right. So the problem is that the way they the way they cook it down there, these are people that live hand to mouth, right? And so when they cook a turtle, if you get salt, you're lucky. It's not like they're sprinkling some cilantro on it and like marinating it. It's you know, so if you just like took a chicken and threw it on a fire and then like ate a piece of it, it's not great. And so a lot of times that you eat this this food way out there in the bush. I mean, I've been there where they've shot a spider monkey, grilled it up, and I've been like, you know, I'll just eat rice. And then I'm like, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be tired tomorrow. There's no protein. I haven't had protein in a week. And I'm like, give me an arm, you know?

• 58:54Speaker 03

  You just like eat the hand and like alright and it just tastes awful, just tastes like char.

• 58:58Joe Rogan?

  My friend Steve Rinella, he was in the Amazon with the Yanomami.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:02Joe Rogan?

  And he said that that's their preferred food, that they like that above everything.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, and I see no, I see no conflict between, you know, we're trying to protect the ecosystem and save the monkeys and I love the monkeys and I've rescued a lot of them personally. But again, when you're, when you're in Rome.

• 59:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  You know, if you don't eat with them, they go that gringo, you know, they think that they're.

• 59:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  Whereas they're like, oh, you're one of us.

• 59:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, you have to.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  You know, you show them you know how.

• 59:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  You know, little, little things or.

• 59:31Joe Rogan?

  Must be chewy as fuck, right?

• 59:32Speaker 03

  Nah, it's, it's, it's kind of smooth. It's kind of like, if it's well cooked, it's kind of like mutton.

• 59:37Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  It's gamey.

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  So you have to slow cook it, long cook it? Is that what it is?

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Ideally, yes, but a lot of times it's just they, they tie it to a cross like it's little monkey Jesus and they throw it on the fire.

• 1:00:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've, when I saw them cook it, they singed the outside, they singed all the hair off. And then they cooked it, I think they cooked it inside banana. See if you can find Steve Rinella eats a monkey.

• 1:00:44Joe Rogan?

  I think they, and then they boiled some of it in like a soup.

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  I don't enjoy boiled, boiled meat. I'm never excited by boiled meat.

• 1:00:53Joe Rogan?

  But stew, right?

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  Beef barley stew is good.

• 1:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, if you, if you sear it first and then you, I mean, it's kind of.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  If you sear it first, right? Cause like just boiled chicken to me is like, you think a white like.

• 1:01:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so here he's just eating.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, see like they're like having a really good time.

• 1:01:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, initially he was like, I'm not doing that.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:13Joe Rogan?

  And then once they started doing it, he was like, okay. He said it's, it tasted like smoked turkey.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:20Joe Rogan?

  My boy Yanis. Yeah, it is, uh, it's interesting because if you live there, like, uh, my friend David Cho, he was in, uh, Africa and he hunted with the Hadza.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  And they eat baboons. And he said one of the craziest things is when you hit the baboon with an arrow, they grab it. Like a person.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Like if a person goes shot with an arrow and he's like, dude, it's fucked.

• 1:01:43Speaker 03

  Yikes.

• 1:01:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but that's what they eat. They don't have a lot of food and, you know, it's like you were saying also, when it, it, they don't have a sense of wildlife conservation. It's not like, hey, we, we have an accurate assessment of how many baboons are here or how many deer are here, or dikers, or whatever the animal is that they're hunting. They just eat whatever they can and sometimes they eat them almost to extinction. And then they have to move on to baboons and baboons were like the only thing that was left. And there's also like, other people have encroached and settlements and, you know.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  That's the way my guys, cause we have a lot of wildlife in our region and people from other regions will come as loggers and they'll go, oh my god, my dad told me that it used to be like this where we were.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  And now we have people from other watersheds in the Amazon, like, you know, a hundred fifty miles away coming to us and they're going, can you guys bring jungle keepers over? And they don't understand, you know, we're, we're killing ourselves just to protect this river. And they're going, can you do this where we are? They're like, we have no more food.

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  Because they don't have any regulation on this. And so what we're doing with the tribes in our area is just teaching this basic thing of like, you know, don't hunt, you know, at these times of year when they're having their babies.

• 1:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  Don't overhunt. Monitor how many monkeys you're bringing into the, into the, into the village. And so we're trying to develop this with them where if you're gonna keep eating monkeys, do it in a way that they're keep being monkeys.

• 1:03:03Joe Rogan?

  Especially once they've gotten firearms.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  Especially once they've gotten firearms. The, the, one of the older guys said to me, he goes, man, it's so sad. He goes, we grew up, he goes, you could just pull fish out of the river and there was monkeys in the trees and there was turtles. He goes, you could eat whatever you wanted out of the forest. He goes, now, he goes, we're eating sparrows. And he was like, we've just, we've eaten everything down to the smallest birds. He was like, it's just destroyed. And it was, where he is is like something, it was like Cormac McCarthy's nightmare. If Cormac McCarthy was still alive, I would show him the, the, I went to a part of the Amazon that, that really no one goes to, up this horrible river. And, and that there were recently contacted, uncontacted people, just, just this tribe that had just come out of the forest and they still had their bows.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  And they had no idea, me and JJ went for like, a three week expedition, plane to plane to plane, to three days on a boat, to two days on a boat, to finally reaching this last settlement. And the missionaries had pulled this tribe out of the forest, they'd tricked them. They said, just come with us for a ride. Pulled them out, but then they said, well, if you want to go back, you gotta pay for your gasoline. And the tribe was like, how do we pay with what? And they were like, money. And the tribe was like, what's that? And where do we get it? And so these little people were standing, these were not tall people like the Mosh Copiro, these were little tiny people. And they were standing there with their bows. And so we showed up with our tents and our gear, and we were trying to go up this river in our boat, and these little people came up to us and they were like, they were making the gesture for food.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  And so there's some loggers over there, and so JJ just didn't, didn't think. And he was like, you want some food, you gotta go pay for it. He was like, money. And, you know, he threw a guy, he was translating, and these people going, but we don't have any money. And JJ took some coins out of his pocket and was like, just go buy some bread. And he gave him some coins and they went and they tried it, and they got some bread. And then all of a sudden, there was fifty of them coming at us, and they were surrounding JJ, and they were grabbing at him, and they were like, he's the guy with these tokens that allow us to eat. And we had to get out of there, because it was causing a problem.

• 1:05:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  But I mean, these people think they, they, they're with their bows and arrows and there's no more animals to hunt, and no one's gonna give them money, and they live at the edge of the world.

• 1:05:12Joe Rogan?

  And they're probably tiny because they don't have any protein.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  It was horrifying. It was one of the worst things I've ever, I've seen poverty all over the world. This was, uh, again.

• 1:05:24Joe Rogan?

  A hunter gatherer tribe with no food.

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  With no food and no way of getting back to forest where they could be a hunter gatherer tribe. Now they were in this, in this wasteland where the loggers and the gold miners and the oil companies, there was, there was even, there was even a barge with oil, and it was like, this is where the Amazon is being eaten. And it was out of sight, you have to go for days just to get there, there's no foreigners there. Actually, they did say, we were talking to one logger and he said, He goes, you know, a few years ago, he goes, there was a, we saw some rafts coming down river and then they stopped at this beach up river and they, they, they made camp. And he's like, so we all talked about it and we said, well, we have a feeling they're organ harvesters. And they

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  They were scared of these, of these incomers, right?

• 1:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Did organ harvesters visit the Amazon?

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  No. And so, but that's what they were, they're sitting around the campfire and someone was like, what if they're organ harvesters?

• 1:06:13Joe Rogan?

  Who, why would they think that?

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:06:15Joe Rogan?

  That must be a thing that gets.

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  I don't know, but, but the dude I was sitting with told me, he goes, you know, we got real scared sitting around the campfire. Everyone was telling these stories and he's like, so we figured the safest thing would be to go kill them. So they went and they killed them and they were a couple of European, like hikers on a mega expedition in the Amazon. And they just got murdered by the locals preemptively in case they were dangerous.

• 1:06:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  And this dude was like, yeah, we fucked up.

• 1:06:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  And I'm talking to him, I was like, so who did the?

• 1:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Killing.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Cause it was it, you know, I was like, shit, man. But I mean, this place was dark. You're like, you know, I, I, in, in the next book I write, I'm gonna have to do a deep dive into this one, cause it was just. It was, it was heavy and we also, we knew we, for the first time, you know, when you're in the jungle, we're like, we're safe. This place, it was like people are looking at you and they're like, that's a jacket and a watch, you know, like a camera and a tent and a pack raft. They're like, you, they're like, if we killed him, we get all kinds of stuff. They're looking at you like, man, that's a, that's a lot of opportunity. You could just see them being like, well, let's separate him from the herd.

• 1:07:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was rough. It's like, you think like the cowboy days, like when it was really wild, like blood meridian.

• 1:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, but it's probably a ton of stories about people that have come down and done horrible things. So it's not like you're thinking like, these are wonderful people that come to give us plantains.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  No, you're thinking, these are the type of people that would do horrible things to us.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  So we have an opportunity to get something from them and pure desperation.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  Pure desperation and so like the, the communities that I've worked with in my region of the Amazon. They're all, you know, you show, I've showed up on a packraft and been like, hey, and they're like, where'd you come from? And I'm like, I'm just this foreigner who does work here. And I talked to them and they're like, oh, camp here, you'll be safe. They're really nice. They're caring, they're families. This place that we were at was this outpost and it was all extractors. It was all gold miners, petroleum people, loggers, and it was like all the men who were in the dark, the, the, the black market people were all in the same place. So there was like a brothel, there was these displaced natives, and then there was like this one really scary missionary. This man looked insane. He had crazy eyes and he wouldn't come anywhere near us.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  From where? Where's he from? I couldn't, I couldn't tell where he was from, but he was dressed in the robes. It was like the mission, except he was evil. Like you could tell he, you could tell he looked at us and just vanished. And he had this little settlement that he had cleared and he was bringing his children in and pulling them out of the forest. Was he a white guy? He looked like a white guy, but it was hard to tell. He had, he had, you know, he looked like Rasputin. Oh, wow. And these poor people are sitting there and you could see them like they were all like breastfeeding their babies and like, like trying to eat rats. And like, it was just, we stayed there for one night and we all, we didn't sleep. We, we slept back to back. We were just in our tent, just awake all night. And then the next day we got in the boat and we kept going further up river.

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  And we finally made it into the, into, past the edge of human civilization into, into just uncharted jungle, but it was really dark. And so at least where we are, it's like we're, we're working with these tribes to make their lives better, to educate them. And there's this feeling, this is good feeling. We have jungle keeper shirts. I mean, now we're on the river and we see jungle keepers boats going by. We're, we had gold miners just a few, just a few weeks ago. We had gold miners. Everyone, the whole team was calling each other. We sent our, we sent our ranger team out there. We brought the police. They arrested the gold miners. They brought them to town. They offered them jobs. And they said, you just can't be doing that here. And so they only cleared like half an acre of forest. And then we got them. So they didn't destroy anything. And so that's how we're keeping the rivers. But someone hired them to mine gold, right?

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  That's the thing, that no one hires them. They, they get it in their head. They go, you know, hey. To their cousin, they'll go, why don't we go make some money? Let's go up there and see if there's gold. And they'll launch a little expedition. They'll bring like a 16 horsepower motor. Go for three days and they'll sneak past us. I mean, now the government's getting involved because we've been having the success. We're gonna get a park guard station on our river. So we're not gonna have this problem. But they'll go up the river. And they'll just set up and they'll, you know, they'll start panning and they'll go, I see this little flake here. And they're like, cool, let's burn some forest and then we'll start sucking it up. We'll run it through the big motor and they, they'll bring their wives and their kids and it's artisanal.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  They're very, and so what they do is they get the gold and then they have to take it in their little boat back to the town. And here's the problem. There's one store where you go to sell the gold. And guess who's waiting outside that store? The people that rob you at gunpoint and take your gold and then give it to the actual people. And so it's, it's really sad artisanal gold mining. They're not organized. And it's the same with the narcos. We've been having a problem with narcos. And everyone's like, dude, you can't mess with the narcos. Like you're gonna lose the fight. And it's like, yeah, but these are, these are people that are like, we're just gonna grow a little bit.

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  What are they growing?

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  Coca. They're, I mean, we busted, we helped the police bust a, a, we saw a clearing. Uh, on deep, deep, deep, deep, way up river, days up river. There's a clearing out in the jungle. And so we sent our rangers. The rangers came back and were like, we can't deal with this. There's something scary going on up there. And so we told the police and the police were like, yeah, we'll try and get up there. Now, at the same time, I'm with JJ one day and we always do the same thing. When there's, there was a, there was a bad patch of deforestation along the river. And we said, how the hell did this happen? They did it so quick. And so I put up the drone. And I flew it over and I'm so going, who, you know, who are these people? They loggers? We're just trying to get a sense of what's going on.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  Fly the drone down and usually when we see loggers, they'll run in, they have these little palm thatched huts. They'll run into them to hide from the drone.

• 1:12:03Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. They know what a drone is.

• 1:12:06Speaker 03

  Well, these people came running out and they had guns. And we had already on the river, we had passed their settlement and flown the drone back. Their boat came out after us. And we started going and I was like, JJ, you could just talk to them like normal. And he looked at me and he went, not this time. And we had a, we had a sixty horsepower and they had a forty. And we were just blazing ahead of them and I had the drone in the air. And so this, you know, this five thousand dollar drone. And so I'm driving the drone and I was like, can we, can we like, I gotta get this drone and they're like, we, JJ looked at me, he's like, we're not stopping. And it, it dawned on me that was like, we're, we're, if we get caught, we're getting killed.

• 1:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  And we arrived at our.

• 1:12:46Joe Rogan?

  Are you armed?

• 1:12:47Speaker 03

  At this point, nobody on the boat had a gun. And so we arrived at a place where the police were camped out. Where the, they had been dispatched to go check out that other site. And so we arrived and the police force that we work with was there. And we pulled up and we're like, yo, we got bad guys coming in and they, they masked up, loaded up. They got on our boat, we turned around and then as soon as they saw us coming back at them. They left. And then days later, they went to that same police force and assassinated one of the guys.

• 1:13:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  So the narcos are different. The narcos are scary. And that clearing that we originally found, they were actually per day of sacks of white powder. The Peruvian military went in and actually raided that camp, arrested everybody. It was so big that the American DEA knew about it. They were notified. And so this is now what's happening on this river where it's because it's the last wilderness. They're coming. And so we're, we're, we're trying to, you know, we're relying on the Peruvian authorities to stop this from happening. So that we can create this park before it's too late because they're also blazing roads, they're bringing in loggers, they're smart. They bring people and they'll send the loggers ahead of them and then when the loggers clear the land, they'll just start growing coca.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  And so it's gotten, it's gotten scary. I, I text, I texted you when it was at its, uh, when I first started having to travel with security.

• 1:14:10Speaker 03

  I remember texting you because I was like, this is, this is a different. Game, you know, it used to be like we're counting the butterflies.

• 1:14:17Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:45Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  Cause then we're...

• 1:16:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you wanted to learn where to train.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:14Speaker 03

  Cause it's scary walking around. Well, the thing is, the police intercepted after one of the people that they arrested. On the phone, it said, "If you see JJ or that shithead gringo that flies the drone, they said, "If you kill them, we'll reward you."

• 1:16:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  So they found this message on WhatsApp. They showed it to us and they were like, "You guys have a hit on you." And then a few days later, they, they, JJ was supposed to get in the car at the side, you know, you take the boat down river to the car. And he was supposed to get in the car and go back to the town. He actually came down river in the boat. And then went, I forgot, I forgot that I wanted to finish up something at the station. Take me back. He went back to the station. So our driver Percy started driving back along this little dirt logging road by himself. And they had trees across the road. Masked guys with guns. They put the guns in the windows. They pulled him out and our windows are tinted. And they said, take JJ and Paul out. They were gonna do it.

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  And so it just so happened that JJ wasn't in the car. Just by pure luck, he was not in the car that day. And they roughed up our driver. They took his driver's license. Uh, they took his cellphone. And they just said, just let them know. We missed him today, but we'll get him soon.

• 1:17:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  And so we went, of course, we went to the police and we're like, look, you, we're gonna need a lot more protection. They're like, it's getting, I mean, we're, we're just trying to save the rainforest, man. Like, we're not trying to. And these people are going, well, we're just trying to grow drugs. And we want to do that where there's no police. And the wilderness is only, the wilderness is becoming a finite thing now. So it's becoming this battle battleground. Jamie, on there is a map. I'm wondering if you could pull up the map, because I could explain to you.

• 1:17:59Joe Rogan?

  What's the status of this right now? Are they still after you guys?

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  They are still after us, but it's been, for, for about eight months, it was really bad. It was really scary. It was horrible. Like, every day, anytime JJ called me, I'd, I'd have a panic attack. But you see, the, the, the yellow on the right is the Trans Amazon Highway. That's the big, that's the big artery. That's what the Chinese and Brazil built. But then that smaller thing going up, that's, that's the roads that the loggers and the narcos are making. And so that big red arrow, they're trying to make a road that goes in through there. And so the, the white line outlines what we're trying to protect. And then that light greenish blue is the area that we have protected. That's that hundred and thirty thousand acres that we have protected.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  And so that's what we're doing right now. It's a race against time. If we can fill in that area, if we can fill that whole thing in, we save the land and once it's ours, once it's under Jungle Keeper's protection, it's indigenous protected, the-

• 1:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Alright, we're back.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:58Joe Rogan?

  Um, so where are they growing the drugs in this map?

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  So, right at the upper tip of that arrow, sort of the outside, they had cut a little, a little road filament into there. And again, these little tiny trail roads, they, they go under the forest. The forest is 160 feet tall.

• 1:19:14Joe Rogan?

  Is there a way you can communicate with these guys, saying you're not trying to stop this?

• 1:19:18Speaker 03

  I mean, right now, what we're doing is putting signs on, on all of these little tiny, I mean, these are jungle roads where just to go on the road, you're going out to where, you know, if anybody finds you out there, they'll just kill you. And your body will be decomposed and recycled within 48 hours by the jungle. So, you're, you're, you're past where there's police. This is just earth. It's the Wild West.

• 1:19:39Joe Rogan?

  More than the Wild West, right? Because the Wild West was never this dense.

• 1:19:44Speaker 03

  Well, it's the Wild West and you can't see 10 feet in front of you.

• 1:19:46Joe Rogan?

  Right. That's what I'm talking about. Like, this is more wild than the Wild West.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  I, I guess so.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  You still have, you have, you have Indians with arrows, and now you have these narcos that are, that are straight up evil, that are coming. I mean, they're taking girls from indigenous communities to work in their brothels. They're growing cocaine-

• 1:20:02Joe Rogan?

  They have brothels up there?

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  You got men working out in the jungle. And so they go to the communities and they tell them, "Hey, your, your daughter's very pretty. She'd be a great waitress. You know, we can educate her while she trains and helps people." And then they, they never see him again. And so it's all that darkness. And, and at the same time, what we're doing is bettering the lives of the community, making friends with these people. We have these amazing rangers. And I mean, we have different ranger stations along the river. And if we make this into a park, like, um, Teddy Roosevelt, no, John Muir took Teddy Roosevelt on a three-day camping trip and showed him Yosemite and like Sequoia and all this stuff. And he was like, "We gotta protect this. Like, it's special here. Look at the size of these trees. Look at the beauty of this valley." And then they protected it. There's nothing as wild as this river on earth today.

• 1:20:49Speaker 03

  And so if we protect this now, the 200 indigenous people that live on this river get protected from the narcos. They continue having abundant fish and resources and then they'll work as park guards and educators and chefs and boat drivers to maintain this gigantic protected area and then Peru will have this crown jewel of the Amazon. So they love it.

• 1:21:12Joe Rogan?

  But how can you protect them from the narcos?

• 1:21:14Speaker 03

  The police-

• 1:21:15Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it seems like the amount of money that's involved in trafficking cocaine would make it a real problem.

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  But the good thing is that these are the little artisanal ones. These are the guys that go, these are not like mafia bosses, this isn't like the Mexican cartel. These are like these little clans of people that go, you know what, we could just grow some cocaine and then we'll sell it to the big guys. And so they're just, they're like mom and pop cocaine growers.

• 1:21:40Joe Rogan?

  But they're also murderers.

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  Well, of course. And so when the cops go out there, the cops just arrest them and take them straight to jail. And so the cops have been, everyone assumes that Latin American police, no matter what, are gonna be corrupt and like the police force we've been working with has been keeping us alive and they want this park protected as much as the indigenous people do. It's amazing how many good people are out there. They're actually helping.

• 1:22:04Joe Rogan?

  And how many narco organizations, artisanal narco organizations are out there?

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  Peru has become, it's not great. Peru, I think, has become, if not on the same level as Colombia, I think they might have surpassed Colombia in terms of cocaine production. They're not doing great with that right now. And so we're at this very, very crucial juncture there, but you know, it's funny because in doing all this, you know, with, even with the book coming out and I've been talking to people and people go, well, you have narcos now, they're like, so you're gonna fail. And it's like, man, you're not even the one on the ground. Like, I'm the one on the ground. I'm telling you, we're not gonna fail. And the police have been successful at clearing them out and it's getting better. Just like the whole thing with, yeah, the Amazon's disappearing, but we can still stop it. It's like, you gotta, you think like before D-Day, if Churchill was like, I will probably lose.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  Like you can't have that mentality. And so it's very, very encouraging seeing the, the, uh, the local people stand up for what they believe in and, and the job is dangerous. There's a, there's a video on there that I think it says Sandra tree crush. But we, I got woke up a few, a few weeks ago. And my, one of my managers came running at like 3am. I see a flashlight coming through the jungle. And so I'm thinking the worst. And then he comes, he's going, Paul, he goes, a tree. And I was, I told you the last time I was on here, I said, the most dangerous thing in the rainforest is the trees falling. He said, a tree fell on the ranger station. And it's raining and I'm talking about rain. You know, when you're at the airport and you hear that sound where it's like, there's no sound louder. Your ears can't handle it.

• 1:23:42Speaker 03

  It was raining so loud. And he's screaming into my ear that this tree fell on the ranger station. He goes, and one of the rangers was, was crushed. And I'm going, but dead or alive? And he goes, we don't know yet. And so it's 3am and we get in this boat and we're going up river and there's lightning flashing and there's rain falling. And I'm looking with the flashlight and I'm, I'm navigating by the crocodile eyes. Cause we don't know where the edges of the river are. Cause they, you know, the eye shine. And so we have footage of this and we arrive at the ranger station. And sure enough, this tree had fallen, crushed the roof, all the beams and, and all the, all the scaffolding under the roof. And fallen on this woman's face while she was in bed. And so she was crushed under this and she couldn't even scream because it was raining so loud.

• 1:24:28Speaker 03

  And so we get there and I, I stick my hand into the rubble and I hold her hand and I'm like, are you okay? And she was like, hey, Paul, she's like, I have no idea. And she was amazingly like, like buoyant. She was like, I have no idea if I'm okay. She's like, but I'm alive. I was like, we're gonna get you out of here. And we started chainsawing, I mean, like 16 feet of tree debris over her and all this gnarled roof material. And we had to pull her out of there and she had a scratch on her ankle.

• 1:24:54Speaker 03

  Got this great video of her sitting in a hammock at like six AM and she's smoking a cigarette. She's like, I'm alive. She's going, I'm alive. And she didn't quit. She's still a ranger. And it's like, she's out there right now, driving up and down because she wants that forest protected for her kids. And it's like, these people care.

• 1:25:11Joe Rogan?

  It sounds like the adventure of this is very addictive to you. This is what I'm getting. I think you love it. I think you love the forest. I think you love protecting it. But I think there's something about the danger of it and the chaos and the wildness of it all. That's that seems to me, I'm looking in your eyes, you're smiling because you know I'm right.

• 1:25:35Speaker 03

  I know, yeah. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna deny that. That's when I was a kid, I remember sitting in school and being like, why did? Like you read about like Roosevelt and Jane Goodall and like these people had these amazingly adventurous lives. And I was sitting in school, getting detention after detention and getting yelled at and being like, can I go to the bathroom? And I was like, why do they get to do that? And I have to do this. And then like, you know, everyone around me was like, you know, when you get a job, then you're really gonna love your desk. One of my friend's mom said that to me. She goes, you think, she goes, you think you hit your school desk. She goes, wait till you get your real desk. And I was like, oh, man. And so, yeah, riding on the, on the, on the boat at, at, at four AM with the lightning is incredible. Showering in the river.

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  By crocodile eyes.

• 1:26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, man. I mean, with the wind in your hair and the, the, I mean, you know, you know, the magic of the mountains. And like the, and the jungle has its own vibe. You watch that mist snarling up off, off the canopy. And it's like, it's so wild that you just, you feel better, you feel healthier. And again, you know, that whole thing of, of, um, what's that thing they say, like a, a sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace. And it's like the, the beauty of that, you know, you drink from the river and then you sweat it out. And you watch your sweat join the steam and rain back down onto the jungle. You are connected to your environment and every single day, you don't know what's gonna happen. You know, I, I, I opened, there was one day where I was like, okay, I'm gonna stay on the station.

• 1:27:00Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna do anything. I've been hammering myself in the swamps for a week. And I was like, I'm just gonna like drink coffee and like do office work on my computer. And so I was like at the station. And my team comes running. They're like anaconda. And I was like, where? I was actually annoyed. I was like, where? How big of an anaconda? And they're like, no, it's a pretty big anaconda. As we go down to the thing and it's sure enough, this big ass anaconda. On a log, like 11 feet, you know, not a monster. But so then I started doing this thing where I was like, because they were all like, be careful. And I was like, of what? And they're like, it could bite you. And I was like, it's asleep. I was like, she's just trying to get the sun. So then I started, I took out my phone. I started doing this thing. I was like, people are scared of snakes. And I was like, I was like, if you're scared of snakes, I was like, there's an 11 foot anaconda. I was like, do I appear to be in danger yet?

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  And then I kept getting closer and I was like, how about now? How about now? And then I was like, she's not waking up. So I get on the log with her. And the anaconda still doesn't get up. And so I, I, I turned around. And her coil is here and her head's like, you know, 10 feet over there. And I just put my head on her. And now I'm laying on the snake. And I'm still taking a video and I'm going, see? This snake doesn't care that I'm here. And even if she wakes up, you know what she's gonna do? She's gonna jump in the water. She's not gonna bite me. And she never woke up. And I figured, you know what? Why bother her?

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  She never woke up when you rested your head.

• 1:28:19Speaker 03

  She woke up. She, she, she, she moved her tongue, but she never, she never freaked out.

• 1:28:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're the king.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It sounds like they don't really have any natural predators, right?

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Do they?

• 1:28:31Speaker 03

  When they're small, when they're small.

• 1:28:33Joe Rogan?

  Crocodiles, right?

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  Uh, the crocodiles, the herons, the piranha.

• 1:28:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:38Speaker 03

  You forget, you forget that like pelicans and herons can eat like a baby alligator. They'll just like throw it back.

• 1:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  Just, just take it down their throat and the uh.

• 1:28:47Joe Rogan?

  Herons are crazy.

• 1:28:48Speaker 03

  Herons are, they're amazing hunters. Pelicans are disgusting. They'll, they'll take like a whole bullfrog and just glut it down. So you know that thing's like alive in their chest.

• 1:28:58Joe Rogan?

  I've seen videos of them doing it to pigeons or seagulls.

• 1:29:01Speaker 03

  Yes, the one where he swallows the seagull.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Whole.

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  Ah, and the seagull's like getting smaller as it goes down. Yeah.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  And the, you realize like that crazy mouth that they have is just so they can swallow things alive.

• 1:29:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:15Joe Rogan?

  I mean, this weird looking funky thing, like, oh, that's a monster. That's a monster that just swallows things alive.

• 1:29:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't think of birds as a, as, as savage as they are.

• 1:29:24Joe Rogan?

  What are you laughing at, Jamie?

• 1:29:26Speaker 04

  Pictures of pelicans trying to eat shit on the screen, trying to eat a dog.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:29:30Speaker 03

  Oh, come on.

• 1:29:31Joe Rogan?

  Marshall.

• 1:29:32Speaker 03

  Marshall, look out.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Trying to get a cat.

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  He's trying to eat a cat.

• 1:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. Yeah, they, they basically can eat almost anything that's near their size.

• 1:29:42Speaker 03

  Good Lord, that one just fly out.

• 1:29:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow, it's too late.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're monsters.

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  Trying to eat another, God, that's, that's, I call bullshit on that one. There's no way his pelican was trying to eat a bear. I believe that, though. I've seen that video.

• 1:29:57Joe Rogan?

  What are those things called again?

• 1:29:58Speaker 03

  Baby capybaras.

• 1:29:59Joe Rogan?

  Capybaras, right. Those are, uh, they've, are, are those the things that have made their way into Lu- no. It's a different animal that's made their way into like Louisiana and they have to go out and shoot them?

• 1:30:11Speaker 03

  Havelinas.

• 1:30:12Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no, no. It's a type of large rodent because David Tell used to have a TV show called, um, Insomniac. And he went out at night one time with them in Louisiana and they're hunting these things that they're, they're an invasive rodent, a giant rodent. And it was like, uh, Dave would do his shows and then after, it was a Comedy Central show, it was a really good show. And then he would find things to do in the town because he can't sleep because he's up all night. And so he went out with these people that were, God, I can't remember what the animal was, but it's a, a large invasive rodent that exists in the South.

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:30:48Joe Rogan?

  Nutria, that's right. Yeah, and people eat them.

• 1:30:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  I mean, the rodent, I mean, capybaras.

• 1:30:55Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find that video because it's kind of crazy. Because, uh, they're out there hunting them with twenty twos.

• 1:31:01Speaker 03

  With twenty twos?

• 1:31:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, they have to. There, there's, they've, they're a completely invasive species and they're huge. They're like a, a small dog.

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  That's something I let, yeah, I left off the list. We eat those all the time. Like they, we have something called a paca. It's like a small capybara with spots.

• 1:31:16Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  And those, I mean, you know, it's like squirrels, but they're big. They're like, you know, cat sized and fat. People eat them all the time. Now, those are delicious.

• 1:31:25Joe Rogan?

  What's your favorite thing to eat in the jungle?

• 1:31:27Speaker 03

  Pir- piranha.

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Piranha?

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Fuck.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:31:31Speaker 03

  Oh my god, they're delicious. And when you fry a piranha, you know, you slit, you know, make the slits along it, you just fry the whole thing, you just pull it right off of its skeleton. And the, the, the fins become like chips, like little salty chips.

• 1:31:42Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 1:31:43Speaker 03

  Oh, they're so good.

• 1:31:44Joe Rogan?

  You just put salt on it and?

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  We just, just, just a little bit of salt and then fry it up. And then, better than the piranha is the paco, the big vegetarian.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  And the piranha species, yeah. Those are invasive, invasive species in America as well.

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:57Joe Rogan?

  People catch them all the time.

• 1:31:59Speaker 03

  Oh, they're so good.

• 1:32:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they catch them and they're like forty pounds.

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  They're huge.

• 1:32:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, someone caught a world record.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  Powerful, really powerful.

• 1:32:06Joe Rogan?

  Paku, P A C U, right?

• 1:32:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  Um, I wanna say in Georgia? Georgia or Florida, somewhere around there? And fucking huge.

• 1:32:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, they're powerful. We, we, we fish for them, you have a, you have like a ten foot pole with a rope on it.

• 1:32:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a paku.

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look at the size of that thing, man, that's crazy. Fifty pounds! World record size paku caught in Florida, there it is. Fifty pounds. That's nuts.

• 1:32:32Speaker 03

  Dude, those are so, they're so nutritious. When you eat them, you feel like you're just gaining muscle.

• 1:32:37Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:32:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like, you, you still, you still eat a lot of elk?

• 1:32:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:40Speaker 03

  Like, don't you feel like it's like a superfood?

• 1:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 1:32:43Speaker 03

  This is how I feel. I live on these things. I feel like I just.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  You live on piranha?

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Joe Rogan?

  Piranha and paku?

• 1:32:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow. How do you catch the paku?

• 1:32:52Speaker 03

  Ten foot pole, you have a piece of rope, and you put like a piece of like last night's dinner, you do like a piece, you tie a bunch of rancid chicken, you leave it out in the sun, make it smell bad. You go at six in the morning.

• 1:33:03Joe Rogan?

  So they're not vegetarians?

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  Well, they'll eat anything. They specialize on the nuts, that's why they have the human teeth.

• 1:33:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:33:09Speaker 03

  Those are the ones that have the human teeth. When you open their mouth, they have like molars and then like a few like front teeth. And so we go with this ten foot pole, and nobody can make a sound on the boat, you're just floating with the river, you're like invisible. And you wait for a feature in the river, like a, like a rock or a place where the water's rushing, and you smack it against, because they like that, that falling, falling fruit or falling seeds.

• 1:33:30Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  And when they hit, I'm talking about like a four inch hook, when they hit that hook, this is the thing, because you're doing this for, you're doing it for an hour, and you're like, alright, there's no, there's no paco in here, well, guess what, when they do hit it. They'll pull you right out of the boat. And I've been dragged straight across the boat where like you gotta use one hand to stop yourself and the other hand's holding this pole. And then your friends gotta pull you back. You get this fish on the thing and it's going.

• 1:33:55Joe Rogan?

  How big are they that you're catching?

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  You saw they're big.

• 1:33:57Joe Rogan?

  You're catching them that big?

• 1:33:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're huge. And and then you gotta you gotta have a hammer. Cause you gotta you gotta shut them off somehow.

• 1:34:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:34:04Speaker 03

  You gotta crack them right on, you know, between the eyes. Cause otherwise they'll just either jump out of the boat or injure someone. That was the other thing. We were going up river a few months ago. We're at night. We're all just quiet in the boat and we're gonna we're gonna go up to this tributary to explore it. And and I had I had a group of tourists with me and this girl was sitting on the front and all of a sudden. I feel something go past me. There's something and all of a sudden I got I got wet and then all of a sudden I hear ba-bang, ba-bang, ba-bang, ba-bang in the boat. What the fuck is going on? Turn on my headlamp and there's a paco in the boat. And the girl that was sitting on the front, her head is bleeding. One of those huge ass pacos jumped out of the river in the night. Hit this girl in the head and then fell into the boat.

• 1:34:43Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:34:44Speaker 03

  And so we just grabbed, yeah, we just ate it.

• 1:34:48Speaker 03

  But I mean, that paco was in the middle of the Amazon at night, just jumping around, enjoying itself. And it just jumped in the wrong boat.

• 1:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow, wow.

• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  But no, two foot fish flying through the air.

• 1:34:58Joe Rogan?

  And that's your favorite, that's your favorite thing to eat?

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:35:00Joe Rogan?

  What else is really good to eat?

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  There's these little cup mushrooms that are really good. You fry them up with garlic. You do that in paco. That's that's now you're talking good. My friend Roy is a chef. He's he's really a, he's one of the jungle, he's the president of Jungle Keepers right now. He's a local guy and he's. He focuses on Amazonian cuisine. And so he goes and he picks all the right flowers and funguses and. He'll take paco and then he'll he'll flavor it with a type of orchid thing and like. All of a sudden you have this amazing food. And like Lima, they have, you know, Peru's become this amazing place for food. Peru, Peru is great food.

• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  He does the jungle version.

• 1:35:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  So it's not like nasty monkey soup. It's.

• 1:35:39Joe Rogan?

  Not turtle.

• 1:35:39Speaker 03

  It's the it's the curated, you know, five star version of of jungle cuisine.

• 1:35:43Joe Rogan?

  So that's number one?

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  Paco's number one, hundred percent.

• 1:35:46Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna eat crocodile?

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  I think I tried alligator once, but it didn't leave an impression on me. I haven't really, also, I feel like they're my friends.

• 1:35:56Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:57Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 1:35:58Speaker 03

  I like them.

• 1:36:00Joe Rogan?

  Just because they're cool?

• 1:36:01Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I work with them a lot. I'm always catching caiman. I always see them on the side of the river. You know, nobody's serving me, if they were serving me caiman, then it would be just like the monkey where it's like, alright, I gotta eat it, but

• 1:36:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  Nobody's serving me caiman.

• 1:36:12Joe Rogan?

  So that's not a staple of their diet?

• 1:36:14Speaker 03

  No. In, in the, in the north, in Iquitos, they eat a lot more caiman, so you don't see caiman. On our river, there's still, there's a caiman on every beach, there's, there's jabby roosters, there's coquillin' herons, there's just macaws everywhere, it's just, there's just so much life. It's Avatar. It's just, just pulsing life. It's incredible.

• 1:36:34Joe Rogan?

  Did you find that video of Dave Attell?

• 1:36:36Speaker 04

  No, it weirdly is like not online. I found a picture of the episode, but not a video of it.

• 1:36:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:44Speaker 03

  And they're just...

• 1:36:46Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:31Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  But I can't find it.

• 1:39:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And he was actually on the episode? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a long time ago. This is back when Dave was drinking. So this is like, Dave's been sober for, I want to say 15 years at least, somewhere in that range. Yeah. And this is back when, you know, he would just drink at the comedy club, then stay up all night, smoke cigarettes, drink coffee. Never end. Yeah. I mean, he's the most unhealthy and also the most hilarious guy alive. You've stopped drinking, right? I drink a little every now and then now. I went like eight months with no drinking, and I started having like a glass of wine with dinner. And a cocktail or two, but I have not had more than like two drinks in a night since. Yeah, feels good, doesn't it?

• 1:39:44Joe Rogan?

  It was, it was a good break. The eight months, I felt really good, and I was convinced I was never gonna drink again. And then I drank a glass of wine, I was like, ooh, I like this. I miss this. Well, the wine, that's the one thing, the wine is good. Yeah, wine with a steak, oh, so nice. Yeah, a little, I think it was important to just recognize that I was doing it, and I wasn't an alcoholic. I was just... I have a club.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:08Joe Rogan?

  I'm there all the time. And, you know, you're out with friends. You want a drink? Yeah, sure. Let's have a drink.

• 1:40:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Joe Rogan?

  Go to dinner, have a drink, have another drink. It just got to the point where I was like, I was feeling like, and I'm too healthy. I work out all the time. And I was like, why am I doing this to myself?

• 1:40:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, but now I realize, you know, it's a little moderation.

• 1:40:26Speaker 03

  Little moderation.

• 1:40:27Joe Rogan?

  But drinking is essentially fun poison.

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  Fun poison. It's weird. After, um, Lex ruined drinking for me.

• 1:40:36Joe Rogan?

  Lex gets saucy.

• 1:40:37Speaker 03

  Well, this is the thing. When he came, when he came to the, when he came to the Amazon, he, he goes, I want to do ayahuasca. And so we called, you know, JJ's oldest brother is seventy something. We called this shaman in. And he's like, you know, with the Lex voice, he's like, brother, you have to do this with me. And I was like, I am not drinking ayahuasca. I, there's a chapter in the book about when I did it with the old master and he, he, he overboiled it and we all like, saw God in the, we were there for the big bang. It was awful. It was hard. No, it was not. No, no. It was like taking a mega dose. It was like, sure. It was awful. It was traumatic.

• 1:41:12Joe Rogan?

  You don't like to get scared?

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  I was terrified, man. Yeah, no. So I was like, I have retired. I was like, I'm not doing it. And Lex was walking around in circles for two hours and he comes up to me and he puts his hand on my shoulder and he goes, I came all the way here for you. He goes, now you do this for me. He goes, don't leave me alone in the dark. And I went, God. I said, all right, I'll do it. And we drank right next to each other. And the guy's smoking his pipe and, you know, he has the feathers on and he's singing to us and you're drinking and you're going deeper and deeper into the hole and God. Um, it was interesting though. We both, um, the shaman said that, um, you know, he was talking about what Lex was going afterwards. He was talking about what Lex was going through on his journey and he goes in and does this deep work of the things he sees coming off of you.

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:41:59Speaker 03

  And this is a guy, the shaman I've known for twenty years. He's like my uncle. And and so he would come up to me and he'd go, I'd be laying down, you can't, you can't get up. And he'd come up to me and he'd go, one more cup? And I'd be like, sure, like, why not? And he'd like, give me like a, like a kiss on the forehead and throw it down my throat. And then he'd go to Lex and go, one more cup? And Lex would be like, yes. And then, you know, give it to Lex. And he said that, he said that he wasn't worried about my spirit. He said, I was, I was there to protect Lex. And he said Lex was there to, to, to do some real work. And so what's interesting is that we both reached this sort of, um, we, we both reached the pinnacle

• 1:42:40Speaker 03

  of, of, of what was happening at the same time where I felt myself about, I felt it coming. I was like, oh no, I'm gonna throw up, I'm gonna throw up. And all of a sudden, my, my consciousness lifted six feet above my body and I was looking down at me and Lex. And I got this overwhelmingly calm sensation. And without speaking, the shaman said to me, he said, you're not gonna feel this. I know you don't like it. He said, you're just here to support him. So you can vomit now. And so Lex started vomiting and I started vomiting, but I was watching myself and I was watching him and I was just like, this is fine. It doesn't hurt a bit. And it was very, very comforting. And then he came and he started with the, you know, shaking the leaves and singing louder and, and really cultivating, making sure we gave everything, that we purged all of it. And then, and then he brought the crescendo down.

• 1:43:25Speaker 03

  And then he, he, he calmed and then he began singing and then we, we came, we, we, we settled back into the, the, the symphonic throb of the night. And then the trip went on for some time, but it was, it was interesting that things heightened at that moment and that we went through it together.

• 1:43:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So why did he think that you were there to protect Lex? It was just like something he felt?

• 1:43:45Speaker 03

  That's what he said to me. You know, and then, and then, and then, you know, it was very interesting watching Lex go through his journey because he, he, by the end of it, he just got happier and happier. He just, he just liked it more and more. And around, around, I think cup six, I, I tapped. After the, after the vomiting, after that thing, it was sort of, again, there's, there's energies floating around and he's singing, it's great, you know, understanding a little bit of the language, cause you know, he's singing to his grandfather, he's singing to the spirit of Santiago and the spirit of the Anaconda and using the old words for them. You know, not even saying anaconda, he's, he's saying the other things. Amaru mayo and you know, he's saying shiwa wako and he's talking about the.

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  So he's doing this and shaking his thing and you hear the frogs throbbing and it's all moving through your skin. And so I, yeah, I, I tapped out after a while and Lex kept going. He's got an amazing constitution. I think that's the Russian thing.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  But since then, I can't drink.

• 1:44:43Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  I can't drink. I could have a cup of wine, maybe. If I have more than that, I feel sick. Like I feel damaged. I have not been able to drink. I haven't had a beer since, since two years ago.

• 1:44:54Joe Rogan?

  So what do you think it is? It just like let you know what it's doing to you?

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  I have no idea. It's just a weird side effect. I keep trying it. I'll like, I used to love whiskey. I'll like, I'll like smell some whiskey and I'm like, wow.

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Really? So we crack the bottle right now?

• 1:45:10Speaker 03

  Turned off.

• 1:45:13Joe Rogan?

  You, you would, uh, it would.

• 1:45:14Speaker 03

  It just, I mean, I could take a sip of it, but my body would be like, no, red light, red light, no.

• 1:45:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's, your body's correct.

• 1:45:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it made me suit, made me hypersensitive. I noticed from that moment onwards.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  Did it have the effect with Lex? No.

• 1:45:27Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 1:45:28Joe Rogan?

  You can still booze it up.

• 1:45:29Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 1:45:30Joe Rogan?

  Lex goes hard. We went to Andrew Schultz's wedding with Lex.

• 1:45:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Joe Rogan?

  And then we had a flow, we flew with Whitney Cummings, was doing a gig in Vegas.

• 1:45:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:38Joe Rogan?

  And we said, we'll go with you. So it was me and my wife and Whitney and Lex, we flew to Vegas.

• 1:45:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:44Joe Rogan?

  And then we hung out with David Goggins. I called him up. I was like, come meet us at the hotel.

• 1:45:47Speaker 03

  Does he party?

• 1:45:49Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:45:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:45:49Joe Rogan?

  No, no, him and Lex were doing pushups. They were doing drunk, Lex was drunk and David wasn't. And Lex wanted to have a pushup competition.

• 1:45:59Speaker 03

  Goggins. That's amazing. I mean, but that's why he's Lex, right?

• 1:46:03Joe Rogan?

  At the encore.

• 1:46:04Speaker 03

  Cause he's, cause he's willing to try everything.

• 1:46:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, he's an animal.

• 1:46:08Speaker 03

  I mean, the fact that pushup competition with David Goggins.

• 1:46:12Joe Rogan?

  He's just silly.

• 1:46:12Speaker 03

  That's hysterical.

• 1:46:13Joe Rogan?

  He's quite a character, that Lex. He told me he's going to Dagestan to train. He's gonna go to Dagestan and train with like Khabib's team.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:22Joe Rogan?

  Good lord, dude. You're like forty-two. Like what, how old is he? Lex gotta be in his forties.

• 1:46:28Speaker 03

  But early forties. I think he's still very young.

• 1:46:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but like, you're, you're gonna go there and train with savages.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  How, how old is Khabib?

• 1:46:36Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, Khabib's retired, but he's probably thirty-five, if I had to guess. You know, somewhere around there, you know? But it's a different thing.

• 1:46:47Speaker 03

  He's the, let's talk now.

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's talk now.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's training those guys now. He's training, you know, Islam Makachev and Umar Nurmagomedov. His cousin, he's training some of the best guys alive. So he's running a camp down Dagestan.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  Cause he's kinda like, so, so did he, it seemed like, at least, I don't like, I wasn't really following his career, but it seemed like he came in like an assassin.

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  Did some big stuff.

• 1:47:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, his dad died. His dad died during COVID.

• 1:47:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:47:18Joe Rogan?

  And, um, after his dad died, he promised his mother that he was gonna stop fighting.

• 1:47:24Speaker 03

  Got it.

• 1:47:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, his dad was his trainer, you know, his dad, his dad, uh, was legendary.

• 1:47:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:47:30Joe Rogan?

  Legendary trainer and trained Islam, trained Khabib. And, uh, when he died, uh, Khabib made a promise to his mother. He fought Justin Gagey, beat him, defended his title, and that was it. Done.

• 1:47:44Speaker 03

  But I mean, he's, he's very well regarded now for his accomplishments in fighting, right?

• 1:47:49Joe Rogan?

  One of the greatest of all time.

• 1:47:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's an argument of who the greatest of all time is. It's very subjective.

• 1:47:54Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:47:55Joe Rogan?

  But he's certainly in the conversation.

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, of, he's one of, I don't think there is a, maybe John Jones is the greatest of all time, just ba- based on his accomplishments and also undefeated, but also the time that he's been, I mean, John won a world title at 23 and is still like, up until he, he relinquished his heavyweight title recently. Um, he's 36, 37 now. No one's beating him. Crazy. I mean, no one's had a run like that. No one's had a run like that.

• 1:48:29Speaker 03

  That's insane. How big is it? How big is he?

• 1:48:31Joe Rogan?

  John's a heavyweight.

• 1:48:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:32Joe Rogan?

  She's, uh, John, I think is 6'3" or 6'4", you know, and now he's about 240-ish, but he used to fight at 205. That was his main weight class.

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  This is crazy.

• 1:48:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so, you know, the conversation of who is the greatest of all time. In my, my book Mighty Mouse is in that conversation too.

• 1:48:50Speaker 03

  Who's Mighty Mouse?

• 1:48:52Joe Rogan?

  Mighty Mouse is Demetrius Johnson. He was a flyweight. Uh, the problem is, he was a very small guy. And so, a lot of people disregard the smaller guys in that conversation. But skill wise, in terms of the expression of mixed martial arts excellence. I put Mighty Mouse in his prime, right up there with everybody.

• 1:49:12Speaker 03

  Do you think that, now, you, your arms are significantly bigger than mine? And I, I feel like, like, the guys who are good at striking have smaller arms.

• 1:49:21Joe Rogan?

  Mike Tyson, giant arms.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  Giant arms, there you go.

• 1:49:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's not it.

• 1:49:24Speaker 03

  Don't you feel like you're swinging around some weight, like?

• 1:49:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, you are, but you also have a lot more power behind it.

• 1:49:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, so when you do connect, that's true.

• 1:49:30Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's conditioning, you know, like, the whole thing of swing. It's like, did you develop those arms just doing bicep curls?

• 1:49:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:37Joe Rogan?

  Or did you develop those arms doing functional things? Like, constant, constant training that gives you muscle endurance. You know, it all depends. But if you see like a big bulky bodybuilder guy, yeah, that's not good.

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  No, but for like, our level where we're still athletic and stuff, I'm going, but man, I don't want, I don't wanna put on more. I wanna get stronger, but I don't wanna put on more mass.

• 1:49:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't do really anything to try to put weight on. I don't, I don't lift anything heavier than seventy pounds.

• 1:50:02Speaker 03

  So many dudes just wanna.

• 1:50:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they just wanna look big. Yeah, I don't do anything like that. I don't, like I said, the heaviest thing I lift is my body weight. You know, I do a lot of body weight stuff. I do a lot of chin ups and dips, and sometimes I do it with a vest, you know? And I do, you know, but with kettlebells, like the heavy, occasionally I'll throw around a ninety pound kettlebell. But the heaviest I really train with is seventy.

• 1:50:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:25Joe Rogan?

  But that's plenty. But I don't, like I said, I don't train for size. I just train for function.

• 1:50:30Speaker 03

  Strength and function, yeah.

• 1:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it has, to me, it's silly. If I don't have range of motion and function, like, what am I doing?

• 1:50:36Speaker 03

  No, you have to, like, try to scratch.

• 1:50:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm a martial artist. Like, my, my whole thing is to being able to use my body.

• 1:50:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:41Joe Rogan?

  It's not to make it look like I can use it. I'd rather be smaller and, and.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  More functional than bigger and just look like a big goofy toad.

• 1:50:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I I bulk too easily. I actually I actually try to put on that's why I only do.

• 1:50:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:58Speaker 03

  I'm yeah, we're Italian Irish. I mean, come on.

• 1:51:00Joe Rogan?

  You get thick.

• 1:51:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, you get thick quick.

• 1:51:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:04Speaker 03

  You gotta wash the pasta.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  Long line of people, long line of thick people.

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  Uh huh, uh huh. Can I take a quick?

• 1:51:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, we'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  You've been you've been murdering it like you've been having just tons and tons. You do them every day?

• 1:51:19Joe Rogan?

  I just keep, I mean, it's not any different pace than before. It's usually four a week.

• 1:51:24Speaker 03

  It seems it's just I feel like maybe it's because I'm in the jungle for a few weeks and then I'll like come back and and look and I'm like, whoa.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:30Speaker 03

  Johnny Knoxville, Matt Damon and like bang, bang, bang, bang.

• 1:51:34Joe Rogan?

  The key is just keep going, you know, like you've run a thousand miles, right? But you didn't run a thousand miles in a day.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:42Joe Rogan?

  You run ten a day and then days go on and on and on.

• 1:51:47Speaker 03

  You get to meet everybody.

• 1:51:48Joe Rogan?

  You meet a lot of people.

• 1:51:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:50Joe Rogan?

  You definitely develop a better understanding of human beings. Because you know, you're limited by the amount of human beings you interact with, your scope, your understanding of people.

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:00Joe Rogan?

  The more you can talk to, the more different people, the more you get a different sense and.

• 1:52:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you're in a very you're in a very unique. I mean, again, I always go back to the bee lady. Remember that? The the she relocates the bees?

• 1:52:11Joe Rogan?

  She's cool.

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then you have people like Knoxville on and you guys are talking. I just heard you guys talking about when he gets when he got hit by the bull. I was always wondering if that was real. And then I remember the first time I came in here is asking you and Jamie, I was going the one question was the David Blaine thing. Because he had you shove that thing through. I was like, come on.

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  Shoved it through. Yeah, that was real.

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  I was going, come on, they got it. That can't be.

• 1:52:31Joe Rogan?

  Nope, that was real. I mean, because I did it once and I hit a nerve and he made me back out. Yeah, maybe back out and shove it right through. But it's not a trick, you know, it's just pain. Like I I could do that. If I wanted to do that, I could do that. I could shove a needle through my arm.

• 1:52:48Speaker 03

  How bad do you want it?

• 1:52:49Joe Rogan?

  I don't want to do that.

• 1:52:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't understand why I would do that.

• 1:52:52Speaker 03

  And I feel like that's a little bit of what Knoxville was saying where he was like, look, he's like, I got a response. And he's like, this is what I started doing.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  You know, and it's like, one way or the other, how are you going to get the attention?

• 1:53:02Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's what brought him to the dance is just getting hurt all the time. But when he told me he had been knocked unconscious sixteen times. And then the last one, that's really bad. And then the last one was the bull one that landed on his head and he was depressed for months and had to get on medication. I am very averse to head injuries, which is kind of hypocritical because I'm a combat sports commentator, you know, it's weird. And I've also been hit in the head a bunch of times, but I just think it's really fucking bad for you overall. I stopped sparring. When I was in my late twenties, really, kickboxing sparring.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:41Joe Rogan?

  And then I did it a little bit when I was supposed to fight Wesley Snipes. I went back and started sparring again.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  Did you fight Wesley?

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  No, Wesley Snipes was.

• 1:53:48Speaker 03

  That would be hysterical.

• 1:53:49Joe Rogan?

  It was in, I was in my mid thirties. I was like, this is the last chance I get to do something like this.

• 1:53:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  And then um, I got contacted by uh, Campbell McLaren, who was one of the producers of the early UFC. He's like, this is gonna sound crazy. But uh, Wesley, he was in tax problems. He wound up going to jail for tax evasion. Apparently he had some crazy guy who was telling him, you know, you don't have to pay taxes. You know, there's, there's those guys that are like, what do they call them? Sovereign citizens? Is that what they call them? There's a lot of people that give really bad advice, you know?

• 1:54:22Speaker 03

  And they got in with someone like Wesley Snipes?

• 1:54:24Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh. And you know, they tell you like they can't prosecute you, it's not in the constitution.

• 1:54:29Speaker 03

  And he believed it because he didn't have access to other people?

• 1:54:31Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I never talked to Wesley. I don't know. I don't have anything against him.

• 1:54:35Speaker 03

  You sure he just wasn't scared of fighting you, so he made up this whole story?

• 1:54:38Joe Rogan?

  No, I think Wesley also might have been embarking on a journey of cocaine.

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Which gives you a very distorted idea of what you can and can't do.

• 1:54:49Speaker 03

  Everything.

• 1:54:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you think you can do everything. I don't know if that's the case. I, I think it might have been just, well, he's a very legitimate martial artist. I mean Wesley, if you look at his like skills, like from the movie Blade and like, he's a really good martial artist. He knows how to fight.

• 1:55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, you kind of have to be to do those movies, eh?

• 1:55:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Joe Rogan?

  Um, but my thought was just, I'm gonna grab him and choke the life out of him. Like, how's he gonna stop me?

• 1:55:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, also, I know how to stand up. Like, I was a.

• 1:55:14Speaker 03

  Awesome.

• 1:55:15Joe Rogan?

  I was a kickboxer.

• 1:55:16Speaker 03

  That would have been awesome. If you could uh, if you could fight one person, dead or alive, full fight.

• 1:55:20Joe Rogan?

  I don't wanna do that. I wouldn't eat, no. The problem with it, it really.

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  No, but theoretically, not you as Joe Rogan the dad and like does Joe Rogan.

• 1:55:28Joe Rogan?

  It would not be one person. What it would be is start fighting again. It would be fight whoever. It was, the whole thing would be competing. But obviously, I'm fifty-eight. That's never gonna happen again now.

• 1:55:38Speaker 03

  I'm saying like, but like Wesley Snipes, it's like, you know, you say like, oh, I'd wanna fight.

• 1:55:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, I just thought it would be an adventure.

• 1:55:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:44Joe Rogan?

  And I, I trained for like six months. I was training with Rob Caiman, who was a, like a legendary kickboxing, a Dutch kickboxing champion. So he was my kickboxing coach.

• 1:55:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:54Joe Rogan?

  And so I was training with him in the mornings and I was training jiu-jitsu at night. It was hard. It was really hard. I was doing it for six months. I was trained twice a day for six months.

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:03Joe Rogan?

  It was really brutal. And I was so tired. I was tired all the time.

• 1:56:06Speaker 03

  And that's where you got those leg kicks that you were teaching George St. Pierre?

• 1:56:09Joe Rogan?

  Nah, I learned how to do that when I was a kid.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  Now, my question is, now, he's such a legendary MMA guy, like, he was, did, did he not have?

• 1:56:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was a Taekwondo specialist, you know, and I was a multiple-time state champion in Taekwondo, and I won a bunch of national tournaments. And I, I was really good. I was really good at Taekwondo. Like, I fought at a very high level. And I have a lot of, uh, really good instruction that I got from, I, I got very lucky. And I stumbled upon a school in Boston called the Jay Hong Kim Taekwondo Institute. Just randomly walked in the door one day, and it turned out to be one of the best Taekwondo schools in the world. And so I had trained with some of the very best people in the world, just by fortune.

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:01Joe Rogan?

  And I was physically gifted. I was very lucky in a lot of ways. I had a lot of natural power. And, um, I learned technique, and, you know, which is the most important thing, like, perfect technique. And so, uh, when, it was funny, it was because it came about because of John Donahue. I had a conversation with John Donahue, who was George's jiu-jitsu coach, who's maybe the greatest martial arts coach in the world, maybe of all time, really, legitimately, like a brilliant man. He was a, a philosophy major from Columbia, who, uh, got, I think he was a professor for a bit, but then he got obsessed with jiu-jitsu. And was just teaching jujitsu and training jujitsu and sleeping on the mats and like literally.

• 1:57:43Speaker 03

  Literally.

• 1:57:43Joe Rogan?

  Literally, teaching all day.

• 1:57:44Speaker 03

  Commune with the mats, yeah.

• 1:57:45Joe Rogan?

  Training all day and sleeping on the mats, but but a brilliant man. And we were having dinner one night and he's like, George needs some help with the finer points of the spinning back kick. Do you know anyone who can help him? And I said, this is gonna sound crazy.

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:01Joe Rogan?

  I go, but I have like the best spinning back kick you're ever gonna see in your fucking life. I go, I know it sounds crazy because I'm a comedian, I go, find a bag, I could show you.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:12Joe Rogan?

  I could show you what I could do. And then I brought, there's a video of me.

• 1:58:16Speaker 03

  Oh, I saw it.

• 1:58:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay, it was me.

• 1:58:17Speaker 03

  The sound is imprinted in my mind.

• 1:58:19Joe Rogan?

  George, this is when we're at Legends, Legends MMA in LA, which is where I trained. It was where Eddie Bravo had 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu. And, you know, I go, okay, let's go downstairs to the Muay Thai part and I'll show you. And then I kicked the bag and he's like, man, what the fuck, can I film this?

• 1:58:40Speaker 03

  Melt.

• 1:58:40Joe Rogan?

  And like, he's filming with a flip phone, which is crazy, like, that's how long ago this was.

• 1:58:45Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 1:58:46Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, it was probably 2005 or something like that, I had hair. And, uh, and it was, uh, it was funny, because it was like this thing, it's like, because I don't do it. It was, even back then, it wasn't like I was training in kickboxing.

• 1:58:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:00Joe Rogan?

  I wasn't training in Taekwondo. It was just, I just still had it in me.

• 1:59:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:06Speaker 03

  You still, do you still, do you keep it?

• 1:59:08Joe Rogan?

  Did it today.

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  You did it today?

• 1:59:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:09Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:59:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:10Speaker 03

  That was, it was an impressive video and you just go, Jesus, he's, he's, if he's showing this to, to George St. Pierre, how good is he at this thing, it's like, you know?

• 1:59:17Joe Rogan?

  I used to be really good.

• 1:59:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I believe you.

• 1:59:20Joe Rogan?

  But I realized when I was like 21, well, I realized when I was 19, that I was gonna have to stop. Because I, I fought in California, I was living in Boston at the time, I was traveling all over the country and fighting. And I fought in the Nationals in California against this guy who is the Illinois State Champion and I knocked him out really bad. It was really bad. I hit him with a wheel kick in the head and my heel was sore for days afterwards.

• 1:59:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  Like, I had a hard time walking from his fucking head.

• 1:59:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:51Joe Rogan?

  And he never got up. He, he went down face first, was snoring, and back then, my thing was.

• 2:00:00Joe Rogan?

  If I knocked anybody out, I would just act like it was no big deal. I would just turn around and walk away. No celebration. I just walk away like that. That's I'm gonna do that to all you guys.

• 2:00:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:08Joe Rogan?

  And so I walked away and then I turned to my friend Junksek, who was my corner guy. I said, is he getting up? He goes like, he's not getting up. He's not gonna get up. He's out. And and then they took him and they put him in a uh they they took him and they put him in a stretcher.

• 2:00:22Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  And then they were taking care of him and for like a half hour, he was still unconscious.

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:27Joe Rogan?

  And then they took him to the hospital. I have no idea what happened to him, but I realized it was so bad. It was cuz he came forward. So what happened was he did, do you know what a switch kick is?

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:00:40Joe Rogan?

  A switch kick is you're standing with your left leg forward and you switch legs and you come like with the left kick.

• 2:00:47Speaker 03

  You think he's repositioning and then?

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  He's moving forward, but he telegraphed it. And it's his left leg, so I saw that his left leg was coming this way, so I spun

• 2:00:58Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 2:00:58Joe Rogan?

  with my right heel and I hit him in the head as he was running forward.

• 2:01:01Speaker 03

  Bah.

• 2:01:02Joe Rogan?

  So it's like multiple for the force itself of a wheel kick is so powerful.

• 2:01:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Joe Rogan?

  And then when you're running into a wheel kick, it's crazy.

• 2:01:10Speaker 03

  Like two cars driving at each other.

• 2:01:11Joe Rogan?

  It's like getting hit with a baseball bat that fucking, you know, Mark McGuire swing.

• 2:01:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:18Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy how much power there is in it cuz it's your legs. Your legs carry you around all day and the torque of your whole body, you're whipping around and and you're hitting it with the heel and you you know, there's no padding on your heel and it's on right. I hit him right on the fucking cheek, like right on the side of his head. He went out. And then I came back to my instructor and I and he wasn't there at the tournament. I went back to Boston and he's like, he goes, uh, I heard you had a really good knockout. And I said, yeah, I said, I was, it was scary. I go, I thought he was dead. He goes,

• 2:01:54Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes they die. And then he walked away from me.

• 2:01:57Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, fuck, man.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes they die. I'm like, that's me. I'm like, I'm, and I had no health insurance. I was nineteen, I was broke. I was training for the, I wanted to be on the Olympic team.

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:07Joe Rogan?

  And that was two years from there. And I, I lost a lot of my steam at that moment. Cause I was like, what am I doing?

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  This is serious.

• 2:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Fighting for free.

• 2:02:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  I don't have any money. I have no insurance. And I'm doing this thing and I'm, I knew back then I was getting some brain damage for sure.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Um, and then I, then I started kickboxing. Like right after that, and then I really kind of lost my feeling for taekwondo because I realized it was so limited. You know, that like when I was sparring with kickboxers, I was really like, man, God, my hands are so limited. So then I started working with this guy. Joe Lake, who was a boxing coach, and that's when I was doing a lot of boxing and a lot of, a lot of kickboxing. And I was like, man, I'm getting my brains beat in and I don't know why I'm doing this. And I'm like, there's no professional. It wasn't like the UFC existed at the time.

• 2:02:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  I got offered a kickboxing fight for five hundred bucks. And I was like, five hundred bucks? So for five hundred bucks, I lose my amateur status. I can never fight in the Olympics and there's no money in it as a professional. I'm like, what is my future? Am I gonna be one of the, and then I'm, new guys in the gym that I used to train with, like when I was nineteen. And then by the time I was like twenty one, I was seeing brain damage in these guys.

• 2:03:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:21Joe Rogan?

  I was seeing them slurring their words.

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:24Joe Rogan?

  Forgetting what they were saying, repeating themselves. The weird thing is they, they'll tell you a story.

• 2:03:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:29Joe Rogan?

  And then they tell you the same story.

• 2:03:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Like two minutes later. And like, you just fucking told me that story.

• 2:03:34Speaker 03

  That's terrifying.

• 2:03:34Joe Rogan?

  They don't remember, they don't remember anything.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  And, and now, but now, now George Saint Pierre is a good example of someone. I feel like he made it out of fighting before.

• 2:03:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:03:42Speaker 03

  Like he looks very healthy.

• 2:03:43Joe Rogan?

  He's fine.

• 2:03:43Speaker 03

  He looks like he's fine.

• 2:03:44Joe Rogan?

  He's fine, but he's, you know, he's a very intelligent guy. He does, also does a lot of things to keep his mind very active. He plays chess.

• 2:03:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, and he's very. Like proactive about it.

• 2:03:56Speaker 03

  But he seems like even like I've just seen him on social media where he's like, hey, guys, this is how I do. Like he's just like a very.

• 2:04:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:04:01Speaker 03

  Seems like a very positive, fun, you know, does not seem.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Best case scenario for both, another guy in the argument for the all time great.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Uh, for an all time great MMA champion who has a successful and happy life outside of it.

• 2:04:17Speaker 03

  Didn't end up with the.

• 2:04:18Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 2:04:18Speaker 03

  The shakes.

• 2:04:18Joe Rogan?

  Nope. No, he's fine. I mean, I've hung out with him a bunch. I've hung out with him recently.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:23Joe Rogan?

  He was great. We came to the comedy club. He's actually playing my friend, James McCann. They were playing chess in the green room at the comedy mothership. It was so cool. We're filming it.

• 2:04:31Speaker 03

  The last time I came, I think he had been in there the night before and I was like, ah, that would have been, that would have been a trip to meet him.

• 2:04:36Joe Rogan?

  He's amazing. He's, but he's such a sweetheart of a guy. You would never imagine that he's a fucking killer inside the octagon.

• 2:04:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:43Joe Rogan?

  He's such a sweet guy. But it's just like for him, it was just this incredible challenge and he was really good at it. And he just figured out a way to express himself that way. And, you know, he was a legend.

• 2:04:56Speaker 03

  Like, I don't imagine that he was like big on like the trash talk before fights and everything, right? He was probably just like, look, we're just gonna.

• 2:05:02Joe Rogan?

  No, there was no trash talk. He was very respectful. Unless someone was disrespectful to him and, and, you know, and even then, he wasn't trash talking.

• 2:05:11Speaker 03

  No, he always seemed like he was cool.

• 2:05:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  He was just doing his thing.

• 2:05:14Joe Rogan?

  No, he was a, one of the best representatives of the sport of all time, if not the best.

• 2:05:20Speaker 03

  No, I like that. He's classy.

• 2:05:21Joe Rogan?

  Trouble outside the octagon.

• 2:05:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:23Joe Rogan?

  Never, you know, was never drunk driving or beating people up and, you know, just a great guy. And if, I would have to tell people who he is. Like he would, uh, he was like, who's your friend? I was like, what do you think he does?

• 2:05:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:37Joe Rogan?

  What do you think my friend does? And like, I don't know. He seems cool. It was like.

• 2:05:40Speaker 03

  How big is he?

• 2:05:40Joe Rogan?

  He's one of the, uh, he's about five nine, five 10 maybe. And now he probably weighs a hundred and eighty pounds, a hundred and eighty-five pounds, maybe. Fought at one seventy.

• 2:05:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, he's not like a scary looking person. I'm like, that's one of the greatest fighters.

• 2:05:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  That's ever walked the face of the earth. Like, no way. I'm like, yeah. I mean, he's like, hey, how you doing, man? What's going on?

• 2:06:04Speaker 03

  He's like jovial, no.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's a sweetheart.

• 2:06:06Speaker 03

  No, he's not trying to intimidate, like, you know, Khabib looks like he's, you know.

• 2:06:09Joe Rogan?

  He's really smart. I mean, he's really, he's always like watching documentaries and reading books.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:15Joe Rogan?

  He's fascinated by ancient history and dinosaurs and really into aliens.

• 2:06:19Speaker 03

  He loves dinosaurs. Um, no, it's just, it's crazy, man. You've, you've gotten to this, you've, you've met everyone. Did you ever have Jane Goodall on here?

• 2:06:28Joe Rogan?

  No, I did not, unfortunately.

• 2:06:30Speaker 03

  I wanted to make that happen.

• 2:06:31Joe Rogan?

  I wanted to, and I wanted, she's gone, right?

• 2:06:33Speaker 03

  She just died.

• 2:06:34Joe Rogan?

  I wanted to talk to her about Bigfoot, because she was convinced that Bigfoot was real.

• 2:06:39Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:40Speaker 03

  She was convinced that Bigfoot was real.

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, she did this interview, where she said she's certain of it. Yeah, yeah, we'll find it. Jamie, see, we'll find that.

• 2:06:47Speaker 03

  I, I, not that I don't believe you, but I just don't find Jane Goodall.

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  I know, I know, I know. I was stunned. I was like, what? And this is by the time I had been convinced that Bigfoot was fake.

• 2:06:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm in that camp. There's camera traps.

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  But this is the camp. Um, there was an animal that, that coexisted with human beings for sure that was called Gigantopithecus.

• 2:07:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:07:09Joe Rogan?

  You know the whole story.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  So Gigantopithecus, they found bones in an apothecary shop in China in the nineteen twenties or thirties. And an anthropologist found these molars and said, where did you get this? These are primate molars and they're fucking enormous.

• 2:07:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Like, whatever this thing was, was absolutely huge. So they went to the site where they got it. They found, uh, mandible bones that indicated it was bipedal. Um, so it was an upright, walking chim-, uh, uh, walking primate that was eight to 10 feet tall. Like, what the fuck is this? And so I'm sure you've seen the images of what a Gigantopithecus looked like in comparison to a human being.

• 2:07:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:51Joe Rogan?

  It's in the orangutan family. And, um, so that thing existed and also existed in Asia, right? So you look at the Bering Strait and you look at the Bering Land Bridge that we know existed during the Ice Age. And so we know that humans migrated from Siberia into North America. We know that for a fact. You know, one of the reasons we know that for a fact? Because Mormons were convinced that Native Americans were part of the lost tribe of Israel. Yeah, so some rich Mormon guy did a DNA test on Native Americans and find out, found out that they emanated from Siberia. Yeah. And so it was incorrect.

• 2:08:34Joe Rogan?

  So we know humans came down from there, why wouldn't other animals? Sure. We know they did. We know short-faced bear, a bunch of different animals that they find their bones in Alaska. And they know that they probably made their way down through North America. It just stands, it just makes logical sense that if you have a variety of different megafauna, that probably one of those primates, or a bunch of those primates, lived in the Pacific Northwest, which is the area where they would be, right? And then you have incredibly dense forests, right? Yeah. So Jane Goodall won't rule out the existence of... But no, no, no. Find the video where she says, "I'm convinced." I'm convinced. Yeah, because she was talking... Oh, no, no, I've...

• 2:09:18Joe Rogan?

  I, come on. Okay, just find it, because it exists. It doesn't exist.

• 2:09:23Speaker 04

  I can't listen to the videos.

• 2:09:24Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no. Go to video. Dude, she would have been awesome on it. You should, I'm so sad. Jane Goodall and how Bigfoot might be real. That's it right there. Put the headphones on. Listen to this. Headphones.

• 2:09:38Joe Rogan?

  Here we go.

• 2:09:40Speaker 00

  I climbed into the hills.

• 2:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's Jane.

• 2:09:46Speaker 00

  This was where I was meant to be.

• 2:09:48Speaker 05

  I wanted to talk to you about something that some would say is fictional, but you would say, "Hold up, we don't know for certain," and that's Bigfoot.

• 2:09:58Speaker 00

  Everybody talks to me about... I would, I'm romantic. I would like Bigfoot to exist. I've met people who swear they've seen Bigfoot. And I think the interesting thing is, every single continent, there is an equivalent of Bigfoot or Sasquatch. There's the Yeti, there's the Yari in Australia, there's the Chinese wild man, and on and on and on. And, you know, I've had stories from people who...

• 2:10:26Speaker 00

  You have to believe them. So, there's something, I don't know what it is. I've always open-minded.

• 2:10:33Speaker 05

  What about other mythological creatures?

• 2:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Pause for a second. So, they're saying that to her, he's saying that to her, and she said that in reaction to a previous interview that she did. The previous interview that she did, she said, "I'm convinced that it exists."

• 2:10:49Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, you gotta realize, this is a lady that lived with primates in an inaccessible area, where there's very few human beings, and she had these interactions with them. I don't agree with her, but I think that it existed at one point in time. One of the other reasons why I think it existed is that different Native American tribes, put this into perplexity. How many different Native American terms were there for a hairy wild man or Bigfoot? And I believe there's more than 80.

• 2:11:24Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 2:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Now, they don't have a lot of mythological creatures in Native American culture. Right? And so, in different tribes, right? But they have a name for this hairy, wild, giant man that lives in the woods.

• 2:11:39Speaker 03

  A Wookiee.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They also have, the other thing that's really fascinating is giants. There is, a lot of ancient cultures have stories about giants. And Native American tribes have ancient stories of giant red-haired men. Which, you know, God, they're in, it's in the Bible, it's in a bunch of, okay. Forty to fifty separate terms across different languages and regions. Hairy, wild, giant man. No single agreed-upon count, but dozens of distinct Native American names for hairy, wild, giant man beings. Easily over forty to fifty separate terms across different languages and regions.

• 2:12:21Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:12:22Speaker 03

  I still, I would love to see the clip eventually of Jane Goodall saying, "I believe in Bigfoot." Cause she's saying there, she's like, "I'm open to the idea of it."

• 2:12:29Joe Rogan?

  She's saying that, and as, the reason why she's asking that is because he had, exactly. Cause he had seen the previous interview. See if you can find another interview with her talking about Bigfoot.

• 2:12:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was, she was awesome. You know, she, she, she's the reason I have a career.

• 2:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:12:45Speaker 03

  Her being awesome, I always, it's two stories I tell people. If I go, first of all, cause everyone goes, "What's Joe Rogan like?" And I, no, it's true. Cause everyone wants to know. And you're controversial. And so I always go, "He's the nicest fucking guy in the world." I go, like I said, the first time I came, you sent me a message and you said something about like, "Hey, don't worry about a thing. Like, I'm even gonna bring my dog." Like, you're, you're, it was very nice. It was a little pat on the back. Cause you go. Jane Goodall, I went to a talk when I was like 22, something, and I was just writing chapters of my first book, Mother of God, which didn't even have a name yet. And I had chapters in a manila envelope, and I went to a talk that Goodall was giving. And I mean, I'd been read stories and seen the black and white pictures. So this was like, you know, like Einstein, Abe Lincoln, Jane Goodall. It's like a living historical figure.

• 2:13:31Speaker 03

  And so now she's talking in front of me, and I had brought these chapters and I wanted to ask her, cause I'd already sent the chapters to publishers. And they'd all been like, "Kid, none of this is true." You know, "No way did you jump on a giant anaconda. No way did you raise an anteater." They just didn't believe me. And then I, I, when it was my turn after hundreds of people, I get to her and, you know, she goes, "Hello," she goes, just takes a little picture with you. And I said, "Would you read these chapters?" I said, "I, I, I would love it. Cause I, I loved your stories as a kid." And she goes, "Thank you," and she puts it to the side. Forty-eight hours later, her staff gets in touch and they go, "Jane actually read what you gave her, loved it, and said, 'Finish the book, get a publisher, and I will write you an endorsement.'"

• 2:14:12Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:14:13Speaker 03

  She waved her magical wand in my direction. And gave me a career.

• 2:14:18Joe Rogan?

  That's so cool.

• 2:14:20Speaker 03

  And what's really great is that earlier this year, I emailed her. And it was because this book was coming out and I, I, you know, I said, it would be amazing to have. I mean, I said, at this point, no one's, you know, the conservation, the voice of Mother Earth. Um, and she just, you know, she was just, she just said, you know, just keep protecting the Amazon. That's, that's your mission. She was always very, it was like, you know, Luke, believe in yourself. It was like, you know, she was just like, you, your job is to protect this forest. And it was incredible.

• 2:14:50Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:14:51Speaker 03

  And so, yeah, right, right, me, you know, about six months ago, I got to tell her, I was like, look, cause the last time I'd spoken to her, we were protecting. I think it was like a hundred thousand acres and then in the last year, we added thirty thousand acres to the reserve. And so I said, you know, we're, we're making strides forward and she just, it was good that I got to tell her that. And then, and then, uh, you know, recently we found out that, that she died, but what a legacy.

• 2:15:16Joe Rogan?

  What a legacy.

• 2:15:17Speaker 03

  What a legacy.

• 2:15:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, we know so much about primate behavior because of that woman.

• 2:15:22Speaker 03

  We still know so much about, I mean, man, the toolmaker before her, we said, there was humans that use tools. And now we know that, you know, capuchin monkeys use rocks. We know that otters use rocks. I mean, I've seen elephants use a stick to scratch. Seen, I've seen, I've seen camera trap footage of an elephant using a, a tree to knock over an electrical fence. Like animals use tools. She was the first one. I mean, she went out there when she was what, twenty something years old, in middle Africa, blonde girl.

• 2:15:50Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:15:51Speaker 03

  And then spent the whole rest of her life. But the lesson that I take away from that is that even as famous as she was, that she was traveling three hundred days a year. I mean, she'd been, you know, a, a, an icon for decades and that she still took the time. To actually read something that some kid handed to her. That's unfathomable grace.

• 2:16:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:16Speaker 03

  To do that. And then, literally, if that didn't happen, I never would have published Mother of God. I never would have started Jungle Keepers. I never would have been protecting the rainforest. She empowered that. She did that.

• 2:16:28Joe Rogan?

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• 2:18:36Joe Rogan?

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• 2:18:39Speaker 03

  With her magic. It was, and I think that that's incredible.

• 2:18:41Joe Rogan?

  That's so cool.

• 2:18:43Speaker 03

  Absolutely incredible.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Did you find any other? No? I guarantee it exists.

• 2:18:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:49Joe Rogan?

  But it's okay. You'll have to trust me. Um, I don't think she's correct. But I do think, not Bigfoot, but I do think that it's entirely possible that there is a small, hairy, uh, primate-like, human-like primate that exists still. That's like the hobbit people from the island of Flores.

• 2:19:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:13Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's, um, there's the thing called the orang pendek. Have you heard of that?

• 2:19:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:19:18Joe Rogan?

  The orang pendek, uh, I think, uh, Indonesia, perhaps Vietnam. There's a bunch of places that have this creature that gets sighted on multiple occasions. And they used to think of it as like just silly legend. But now, because of the discovery, which was... Was it in the 90s that they discovered the hobbit people on the island of Flores? You know about that, right?

• 2:19:45Speaker 03

  I've heard of them, yeah.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Homo.

• 2:19:47Speaker 03

  And those are real.

• 2:19:48Joe Rogan?

  Lorisensis, yes.

• 2:19:49Speaker 03

  Those are real, real. We have their bones.

• 2:19:51Joe Rogan?

  Very real, very real. It was a very small, um, like hobbit-like creature.

• 2:19:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:57Joe Rogan?

  That was a type of primate that was bipedal. Um, that was like a little tiny hairy human being.

• 2:20:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:05Joe Rogan?

  That lived at least on the island of Flores.

• 2:20:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:08Joe Rogan?

  But most likely lived in many other places as well. And, um... There's, there's a possibility that it still exists. And it's not me saying this, it's like some actual anthropologists that believe that this thing might still be alive. Because you're dealing with incredibly small populations.

• 2:20:27Speaker 03

  But are those, I mean, are those islands so small that no, like unlike the Amazon, this gigantic, but like how could there be a population of it?

• 2:20:34Joe Rogan?

  Incredibly dense, incredibly dense forest and no one's going out there.

• 2:20:38Speaker 03

  They're just down in the bushes.

• 2:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's like the Tasmanian tiger.

• 2:20:41Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say, like the thylacine where it's like, they're just, they're just hidden.

• 2:20:44Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly, like small population, like there's a lot of sightings of the thylacine, you know?

• 2:20:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, but somehow all these sightings, it's never on a, it's never clear.

• 2:20:54Joe Rogan?

  No, no. That was the. It's also, there's no one there.

• 2:20:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:58Joe Rogan?

  Here's the thing, I mean, let's pretend that you saw Wolverine in the Montana woods, like dense Montana woods. And it's a hundred yards away, you see it briefly for a second, get your phone, you're not gonna, you might have seen it. You might have seen it traveling through trees. But like, how are you gonna get it off your phone? You're gonna have to, unless you have a Samsung where you have a really good zoom. You're not gonna be able to zoom in enough.

• 2:21:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, like you'd have to have, like there's only a few phones that are, yeah, you're not gonna get good footage. But we know that Wolverines are real. But finding a Wolverine in the woods, I've talked to, God, I've talked to hundreds of men who spend a giant portion of their life in the woods. And only a few have seen Wolverines.

• 2:21:40Speaker 03

  I would love to see a Wolverine.

• 2:21:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, how about mountain lions? They're everywhere. I've only seen three of them in my entire life.

• 2:21:48Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 2:21:48Joe Rogan?

  But I've probably been around a hundred of them and not known it, you know?

• 2:21:53Speaker 03

  That's what, that's the reaction we got with the, the tribes was that if you look at uncontacted tribes, my whole life, you look at photos of uncontacted tribes, it was like blurry, crappy, cause who was out there? It's like a logger.

• 2:22:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:06Speaker 03

  Right? Or it was somebody running.

• 2:22:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:09Speaker 03

  And even when I saw them the first time, when I was out on a solo, I was 10 days deep in the jungle, I saw them and I ran for my life. And everyone went, you didn't see him. I mean, I'm a, I'm, I don't mind that. If I have pics or it didn't happen.

• 2:22:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:21Speaker 03

  Right? Um, and so with this, when we started. When we started actually showing people what we had, it was like, this has never been, it's like, it's like a vision into the, into the Stone Age.

• 2:22:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, I mean, the, like, really not even the Stone Age, like, they're not even using stone tools, they're using sharpened sticks.

• 2:22:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I showed it to an anthropologist and he was saying, you know, Stone Age isn't necessarily accurate here, he said, because they're not using stone, they don't have clay pots, he goes, this is something, this is, but I mean, it, then, think about it, it's actually like a time machine, because you're, you're, you're, and we were standing across the river, look, talking to these people, and it's like, you guys are a couple thousand years back, and so it's like, this is such a strange aperture into history.

• 2:23:04Joe Rogan?

  Maybe not even a couple, maybe like thirty, forty.

• 2:23:07Speaker 03

  Maybe, I feel like, I feel like, I, I feel like, somehow to me, the number seems like two, but it's like, you know, we were, we were, we were like little tribes.

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean two? Yeah, but two thousand years ago, uh, the Egyptian pyramids were already twenty-five hundred years old, at least.

• 2:23:21Speaker 03

  That's true, but I mean, again, the civilization isn't homogeneous, right, like, different, different, you know.

• 2:23:26Joe Rogan?

  Of course, well, obviously, there's uncontacted tribes still, right now.

• 2:23:30Speaker 03

  Still, yes.

• 2:23:31Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy.

• 2:23:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:32Joe Rogan?

  It's like a man with a cellphone, from the future, filmed people that live in the past.

• 2:23:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's, that's what I'm saying, it felt like that, it felt like this was like a Back to the Future moment, where it's like, you know, this is, they have no idea, and, and my people, thinking of everyone else back home, I was like, don't realize that these people are still out there in the jungle, living like this.

• 2:23:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, and probably in the dense, dense, dense forests, there's probably many more of them.

• 2:23:59Speaker 03

  There are many more of them, in fact, while we, yeah, while we were watching them out front, there was this terrifying moment where the, we heard something behind us, and it was, which we never saw them, but the women came lightfoot in behind, and they pulled up all the yuca and the bananas, and they were raiding, and so for a second, we were like, there's an ambush, and everyone was like, turning the shotguns away from the river, and they were like, we thought there was gonna be arrows flying, so like,

• 2:24:22Joe Rogan?

  Woo!

• 2:24:23Speaker 03

  My guy Ignacio grabs me and like, put me down, and we were hiding behind trees, waiting for it, and it was, no, no, no, they're just stealing all of the fruit and all of the crops, and they just raided our, our, our whole village.

• 2:24:34Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:24:35Speaker 03

  But I really, I really did feel like, you know, like, you, you go, imagine what it would be like to go back and see the Comanches, watch them riding across the plains after the buffalo, and it's like, we can't, but in this case, They were right there.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:24:49Speaker 03

  And now, and now, now that these videos are going out across the world, it's like, look, we're trying to explain to people. You know, first of all, there's a lot of those, you know, you know exactly what kind of people they're like, leave them alone. And it's like, literally, we're the people trying to make sure that they get left alone. Like, that's our job.

• 2:25:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta ignore those folks.

• 2:25:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  You, you, especially you. You're not the type of person that's interfering with their life at all.

• 2:25:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:25:10Joe Rogan?

  I mean, by giving them the bananas, you're hel- you're literally helping them.

• 2:25:14Speaker 03

  Well, and again, I was a witness.

• 2:25:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:16Speaker 03

  That was happening between the tribes and the tribes.

• 2:25:18Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:25:19Speaker 03

  And so, and so, but, but, you know, for all the, all the indigenous cultures that have been destroyed in, in the last few centuries, we can, we can do it right for once.

• 2:25:30Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:30Speaker 03

  We can actually respect these people. If they wanna come out, they can come out. If they wanna adapt, they can. But they need to have forests to live in.

• 2:25:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  In order to make that decision.

• 2:25:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:41Speaker 03

  And so that's where it's like.

• 2:25:42Joe Rogan?

  How can they make an informed decision? How could they, how can they adapt? I mean,

• 2:25:46Speaker 03

  Well, I think it would be very slow.

• 2:25:48Joe Rogan?

  The gap is so crazy.

• 2:25:49Speaker 03

  I think it'd be slow. I think it'd be a few more banana exchanges, maybe without the, the, the arrow shot afterwards. And then maybe it starts to be like, okay, you guys can come here, maybe, maybe, maybe the, the communities teach them how to grow bananas.

• 2:26:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:01Speaker 03

  Maybe they don't wanna come, but they want a few things.

• 2:26:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:04Speaker 03

  You know, maybe they want a couple of machetes, cause it'll just help.

• 2:26:07Joe Rogan?

  Uh-huh.

• 2:26:07Speaker 03

  You know, and they wanna keep to themselves, maybe.

• 2:26:09Joe Rogan?

  But, I mean, other than them, the, the thought of the most uncontacted people is North Sentinel Island.

• 2:26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:16Joe Rogan?

  And North Sentinel Island, the, the interesting part of that is, one of the reasons why they're so distrustful of people is because they had been contacted in the eighteen hundreds.

• 2:26:25Speaker 03

  And it was bad.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, by a fucking pervert. There was a guy named Commander Maurice Vidal Portman.

• 2:26:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  Who was a, like, explorer slash pervert. And the reason why I say that is like,

• 2:26:37Speaker 03

  Job title.

• 2:26:38Joe Rogan?

  This guy had like weird journal logs, where he was like, this one has testicles the size of a sparrow's egg. Like, he would dress them up like Roman soldiers and take pictures of them. They kidnapped a few of them, and then they gave a bunch of people the flu, and a bunch of people died. And so they had this immense distrust for people because of this guy and his explorations onto that island. That island and other islands like it. So they, they don't have a written language, right? These people, there's no evidence they have fire. So there's this story of these, because you know, it's incredibly wet environment. So they, they have these stories that they probably have these oral traditions of these white people that come and fuck up everything.

• 2:27:21Joe Rogan?

  So when someone shows up on a boat, like there's been a few instances where people were killed obviously that missionary, a few years back. But not just him, there, there's a boat that sank there. So it washed ashore and sank and they were headed to go kill those people when they were rescued. And now we've spotted them, we people have spotted them with metal. And they believe the metal they got was salvaged from the boat. Yeah. So they got pieces of metal and yeah, so this, this is the boat that, that shipwrecked in 1981, a cargo ship named the Primrose ran aground on the coral reefs surrounding North Sentinel. The crew radioed for assistance and settled for a long wait, but in the morning they saw

• 2:28:05Joe Rogan?

  50 men with bows on the beach building makeshift boats to swim out to them and fuck them up. Yeah, I mean, they have a severe distrust, obviously, of people. So I was on the Andaman Islands, which is right next to these. That guy respectable lawyer on Twitter, he's the one I got the information from. He documented the whole story of, if you scroll all the way up, he'll talk about that guy, Maurice Vidal Portman. See, look at, look at, he dressed, that's the guy. So that fucking creep. Look at him, he looks like a pervert. So he's hanging out with these guys. They should have known he was a pervert. Look at him. Look at him, always dressed, wonderful testicles. They probably didn't want to profile him. Yeah, so that's the dude. Yeah, he's from the English Royal Navy. Yeah. Portman, Maurice Vidal Portman.

• 2:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:52Speaker 03

  Dude, those guys look built.

• 2:28:53Joe Rogan?

  Look at these guys fucking thrown.

• 2:28:55Speaker 03

  Those guys be doing some sit-ups.

• 2:28:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're out there hustling, you know?

• 2:28:58Speaker 03

  Um, I went to the Andaman Islands, which is right out there.

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  That's where the, he originally landed?

• 2:29:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and if you wanna feel like you fell off the face of the earth, you go to the Andaman Islands. First of all, beautiful. You can only, I think, if you still like this, you can only get there from the Indian city of Chennai or Calcutta, cuz it's an Indian territory. They don't, they limit who can travel there. And there's, I mean, there's, they've brought elephants there cuz they didn't, used to have bulldozers and stuff. So the British brought elephants by boat, and there's these old archival footage, photos of them lifting off of like pirate ships, lifting elephants on the rigging and then putting them, and the island, now the Andaman Islands have elephants.

• 2:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:29:39Speaker 03

  And there's still people riding around on the elephants, you know, like moving trees off the road and doing things.

• 2:29:43Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:29:44Speaker 03

  But when you go from one place to the other place, exactly what you said, because they don't want human safaris, because they wanna protect these indigenous people, you have to go with a police escort to cross the island. Because you have to go through, and I mean, the police watch you like a hawk, and I, you know, I take a picture of everything. I take three hundred pictures a day on my phone, and uh...

• 2:30:04Joe Rogan?

  Look at that, that's crazy.

• 2:30:06Speaker 03

  See if you can see elephants being lifted off of ships, it's...

• 2:30:09Joe Rogan?

  There's a bunch of pictures here that are crazy. They're pulling logs.

• 2:30:11Speaker 03

  I mean, but this is, this is, you know, elephants moving logs happens all the time, but there's literally a picture of the elephants up on the riggings.

• 2:30:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:30:19Speaker 03

  And uh, but man, you drive through areas where there's just these tiny little people with bows and arrows, and they're still out there. Um, I, I, I got to go swimming with an elephant there, yeah.

• 2:30:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow. That's so dope. Look at the elephant swimming, how cool is that?

• 2:30:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:35Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's fucking awesome.

• 2:30:37Speaker 03

  There you go. Look at that, that's them lifting the elephants.

• 2:30:40Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck am I doing in the air?

• 2:30:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, look at that.

• 2:30:43Joe Rogan?

  They have to blindfold him? No, he's not blindfolded. He's just painted.

• 2:30:47Speaker 03

  You know, they probably should have, but back then.

• 2:30:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe the elephant would freak out. Elephants, boy, it takes so much for an elephant to freak out and fucking kill people. There's a horrible video, this guy's abusing an elephant, like he's a trainer and he's like, keeps whacking the elephant and then the elephant goes, "That's enough!"

• 2:31:05Speaker 03

  Yup.

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  And just stomps him into a pancake.

• 2:31:07Speaker 03

  Yup. Or that, or that, that video I sent you with the tiger, that one to the tiger.

• 2:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Which one?

• 2:31:12Speaker 03

  That, where the tiger mauls the guy and you're like, "That's terrible, he kills him." And then the second shot is they show the guy, and he's still alive, but he's got slashes down to his skull.

• 2:31:23Speaker 03

  Just, just don't, just, I mean, these animals are, you just don't push them.

• 2:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:29Speaker 03

  Especially not an elephant.

• 2:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, human beings just wanna fuck with everything. That's part of why we're on every fucking square inch of the earth practically. We wanna fuck with everything. You know, it's, we're the weirdest animal ever, cuz we're on every fucking continent. We're everywhere. There's not another animal like us.

• 2:31:46Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, all of us came from Africa, which is even nuttier, right? So we emanated from Africa and just spread out all over the world.

• 2:31:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:56Joe Rogan?

  As soon as we figured out how to float. How to float, how to hike and how to wear warm clothes. We just kept moving.

• 2:32:02Speaker 03

  And now are we gonna figure out how to not destroy the systems that keep us alive?

• 2:32:06Joe Rogan?

  Right. And now we're talking about doing the same thing on other planets.

• 2:32:11Speaker 03

  We're talking about it, but way before we start worrying about other planets, I wanna make sure that this planet works. I mean, I'm just, I'm so, every, every, I'm just, I'm, it drives me crazy how quickly everyone's going, I just, in, in the, in the, when I come back to society, so quickly, we're like, it's on people's minds. They're talking about this stuff and I'm going, "Guys, the ocean is filled with trash. Like, the Amazon is burning." I'm like, "Can we just fix this?" And there's areas where we have, I mean, you know this, like, they brought wolves back to Yellowstone, like, New York's waters are getting cleaner, the humpbacks are coming back. But, but everyone's so, I mean, but we haven't actually, when we get to Mars, talk about it all day. But it's like, until then.

• 2:32:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:51Speaker 03

  I just feel like we, we are so overwhelmed with serious problems here and the last chance in history to fix those problems.

• 2:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:58Speaker 03

  So there's an amazing opportunity. And I feel like people are so, like, this, this modern nothingness that people feel where it's like, "Oh, it's the end of times." And it's like, dude, this is the most exciting time. You can fly everywhere, you got information at your fingertips, there's more people than ever before working to make good in the world, to help people, to save animals, to restore ecosystems.

• 2:33:19Speaker 03

  And it's like, so I get confused when I come back from what I feel is like battle. And I'm on this mission for 20 years to do this one thing. And people are like, I'm just scrambled and delirious. And I'm like, go outside.

• 2:33:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, get off your phone.

• 2:33:33Speaker 03

  Put your phone down, go to the mountains. That John Muir thing, I'm, you know, to the mountains, the mountains are calling and I must go, like, go. Close your phone, go touch grass for a while. Actually, that was one of the favorite. I forget what I, I posted a video of me with this huge anaconda around me and I'm holding her. It was a 20 foot anaconda. One of the comments is this guy, he was like, dude, you've touched enough grass, go back inside.

• 2:33:55Joe Rogan?

  Go watch Netflix.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like, that's enough.

• 2:34:00Joe Rogan?

  You're the opposite, you've gone too far. You've gone too far.

• 2:34:03Speaker 03

  Interesting use of free will.

• 2:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, fascinating to me when people were trying to save things and by saving things, they don't realize that they're actually fucking things up far worse than they're saving them. Well, there's a, a good example. Uh, I think it's the Mojave Desert where they just now, California and all their infinite wisdom, decided to build this immense solar, uh, farm out in the desert. I saved it. I'll send it to you, Jamie. It is so crazy. So they decided to build this immense solar farm. It turns out this solar farm, because it's got mirrors that like point towards these solar panels, so it's incinerating 6,000 birds a year.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Incinerating 6,000 birds a fucking year, which is like, what does that even mean? Like, how, how is that even?

• 2:34:56Speaker 03

  So it's a death ray.

• 2:34:57Joe Rogan?

  A fucking death ray. God, I know I saved it. Where did I save it? I got it though. Oh, you got it? I mean, I don't know which article you got. Uh, it's okay. Pull up any, any of the articles, but I mean, the, when you look at it, it's, it heats up to a thousand fucking degrees.

• 2:35:15Joe Rogan?

  The Mojave Desert, yeah, well, they just shut it down. So it's concentrated sunlight, solar power towers use mirrors to focus sunlight onto a receiver, creating extremely high temperature. The problem is they're fucking killing birds, like a motherfucker, just like those ugly windmill farms. Those things are a blight on the face of the earth. When you drive to South Texas,

• 2:35:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:38Joe Rogan?

  A buddy of mine has a ranch down there, solar, look at that. Mojave Desert Solar Plant kills six thousand birds a year.

• 2:35:44Speaker 03

  I think that dude.

• 2:35:45Joe Rogan?

  That's from two thousand sixteen. They just recently shut it down. They've spent billions on this fucking thing, and it's not generating nearly an amount of solar power that they were hoping. It turns birds into fucking fireballs, like instantly. Um, but when you drive down to South Texas, they have these, that's what it looks like. Isn't that crazy? Look at that, isn't that nuts?

• 2:36:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, we gotta stop spreading out.

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  We're so stupid.

• 2:36:06Speaker 03

  We gotta stop spreading.

• 2:36:07Joe Rogan?

  But that's like, who said that's a good idea? And well, counterintuitively, nuclear power is like the best for the environment.

• 2:36:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:15Joe Rogan?

  Which is, people think, no, Three Mile Island, no.

• 2:36:18Speaker 03

  They gotta, you know what, they just call it something else. If you just, if you just rebrand it.

• 2:36:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, they just have to realize that the old nu-, like the Fukushima plants, that they fucked the whole area up forever. Those are old. That's a plant that I think went live in the nineteen seventies, like you, you, the new technology, you can have solar power and it's, or excuse me, nuclear power, and it's clean.

• 2:36:39Speaker 03

  But I think people are scared of the word nuclear. I'm saying if you came out and you called it like a something, something plant, they go, okay.

• 2:36:46Joe Rogan?

  We gotta get over that, that hump, you know, but that's, uh, it's just human beings, uh, but this is constant battle, right? There's a battle of good and evil.

• 2:36:57Speaker 03

  Yes, there is.

• 2:36:58Joe Rogan?

  And there's also a battle of ignorance and, and information. And it goes back and forth, and the only way to educate people is, sometimes you have these brave people that are responding to this in- intense amount of ignorance, and they, they have to go out there and say, no, that's not it, it's this. And there's this huge societal narrative, this huge cultural narrative that they have to fight against.

• 2:37:21Speaker 03

  Which is almost impossible to undo. I mean, when you realize there's something that everybody has wrong.

• 2:37:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:27Speaker 03

  Or you realize that there's something, I mean, the amount, cause then you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get the message to everybody.

• 2:37:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:31Speaker 03

  How do you do that?

• 2:37:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:33Speaker 03

  Then you gotta make them care about it.

• 2:37:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:35Speaker 03

  And I mean, it's just, it's, it's wild too.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  But that's us. That's the battle. There's always this like, I think you need those things in order for us to push progress. You need something to fight against. Like, think about where you would be if you didn't have this thing to push against. Like, there's, it's not that the thing is good, but it is bad, but it creates good people that push against it. And this is the constant battle of the human spirit. We're always engaged in this, this battle of right wrongs and to figure things out and to make things better that are bad. And then to realize that, oh, we're making it way worse. Someone has to come along and, and course correct.

• 2:38:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:13Joe Rogan?

  And then, you know, it's usually a few brave people that are pushing back against this tidal wave of negativity and ignorance.

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  The tidal wave of negativity is wild. The, the grief is, is just, it's like, it's like a poison peddled by the darkness. It's like they want you sad and disoriented. And I just feel like so many people now, when I come back, they're, they're, they're downtrodden by the, just, just the buzz of the news and everything. And I'm like, listen, like, choose something that you care about and work on it.

• 2:38:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:44Speaker 03

  Or, or just pick that one thing.

• 2:38:45Joe Rogan?

  Be the good you wanna see in the world.

• 2:38:47Speaker 03

  Be the good you wanna see in the world. And it's like, I'm, I'm in this unique position because I'm contacted now all day long by people that wanna help us protect the rainforest, that people who are, wanna use that blueprint to do it somewhere else. And we're on the cusp of doing this. So I'm, I'm surrounded by, I get, I get a lot of positive, people with innovations, people with ideas, people. I mean, even, you know, everyone says, oh, why can't the billionaires? And it's like, we get people who have money and they come in and they're like, I'll help you get that piece of land. That'll be protected. And so I, I get, I get reinforced, all the time, people go, the world's going to shit. And I'm like, the world's amazing. People are helping.

• 2:39:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:24Speaker 03

  You know, and it's like I've seen so much good done.

• 2:39:27Joe Rogan?

  It really is all what you're focusing on. If you're focusing on that, that's the very thing, unique thing about today. Is that you're inundated with so much information. And we generally tend to gravitate towards the things that are terrifying and the things that are dangerous, that scare us. And so you're paying attention to the news of literally eight billion people.

• 2:39:50Speaker 03

  Which is not natural.

• 2:39:51Joe Rogan?

  It's not normal.

• 2:39:52Speaker 03

  We're supposed to know about our village and maybe the next village.

• 2:39:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:55Speaker 03

  And so like, that's one, I, you know, I had a friend, you know, did you hear about the flood that happened in Bangladesh? I was like, what are you, you know, my sympathy, but like, there's, there's always a flood happen. The world is gigantic. There's eight billion people.

• 2:40:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:40:08Speaker 03

  And so like, you know.

• 2:40:09Joe Rogan?

  There's only so much you can pay attention to.

• 2:40:11Speaker 03

  So much you can pay attention to.

• 2:40:12Joe Rogan?

  But if you have a phone, all the bad stuff is coming into your pocket.

• 2:40:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think a lot of the, it's funny, because a lot of the people, like the adults are, are, the people who are worried about the kids, I think the adults are worse.

• 2:40:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of them, yeah, and a lot of them, they're searching for meaning. And so they find meaning in activism or in pseudo activism and yelling about things online. And then maybe going out into the street and screaming at people. And they think that that gives meaning to their life, you know, there's a lot of people that just feel like really lost. And this strange concrete culture, concrete and electronic culture that we've created. It doesn't give you the fulfillment that the natural world does. I mean, I'm sure it's one of the draws that you have to the jungle.

• 2:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Is that living out there in nature is wildly fulfilling, because it's normal. It's like it, it fills in all the slots that you have evolved to have, like as a human being. We have always lived in coordination with nature up until fairly recently. You know, if human beings have been alive in this form for half a million years, how long have we been in cities? You know, how long have we been in even agriculture, a few thousand years?

• 2:41:38Speaker 03

  Temperature controlled rooms.

• 2:41:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:41:39Speaker 03

  With a little noise box constantly stressing us out.

• 2:41:42Joe Rogan?

  Also wifi and EMF signals. I was just reading this fucking crazy thing. Have you paid attention to this, Jamie, about the forty niners? About San Francisco? Isn't that fucking nuts?

• 2:41:53Speaker 04

  It could be, yeah, go ahead.

• 2:41:55Joe Rogan?

  They think it's real. So there's a disproportionate amount of severe catastrophic injuries that come out of San Francisco and their training facility is right outside this power station.

• 2:42:05Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, way more Achilles tendon blows out, blown, blown out. Way more knees blown out, way more like catastrophic ligament and tendon ruptures. Like, and they've been talking about it since like, the, the players started talking about it in like 2012, I believe. And people like, oh, that's nonsense. And now the stats are in and you're looking at the amount of injuries that come from this area. It's like, it's not normal.

• 2:42:35Speaker 03

  No. And so you think what, they're getting weakened by the water, by the?

• 2:42:39Joe Rogan?

  Electricity.

• 2:42:40Speaker 03

  Electricity.

• 2:42:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, by the EMF signal. It's, I mean, it's, like, EMF signals, we know disrupt human beings. But to what extent? Like, to what extent does LED lights and to what extent? Is it minimal? Do you feel it? Is it not? Is it, is it, does it have a long-term effect? Does it take forever until it actually compounds? But they, they're looking at the data from this one training facility. So you could find something on it.

• 2:43:04Speaker 04

  I'm looking.

• 2:43:04Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot, a lot of stories have come out this week about it. Where people are starting to gather up all the data and they're like, hey, this is not normal. Like, this is a, like, a much higher percentage of severe injuries from this one camp, which doesn't make any sense.

• 2:43:18Speaker 03

  Well, it's like that Aaron Brockovich thing where it's like, you find a place where a lot of people are getting the same kind of cancer. And it's like, there's a reason.

• 2:43:25Joe Rogan?

  So, um, what does it say here at the top of the article? What's the, the article say?

• 2:43:30Speaker 04

  Just about it. Just about the whole thing. It explains.

• 2:43:33Joe Rogan?

  So, is it true? What is this from? How long ago was this?

• 2:43:36Speaker 04

  Uh, two weeks, yes, two days ago.

• 2:43:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Uh, the injury conspiracy theory and is it true? So, um, what, what is this art? This is USA Today, which is like, huh. You know?

• 2:43:49Speaker 04

  I just skipped ahead to the.

• 2:43:50Joe Rogan?

  The so-called mechanisms have not been established. Many of the experiments are contradictory. Many of the experiments of exposures either don't relate specifically to 50 to 60 hertz magnetic fields. It's a topic that will likely resurface or any major injuries during the Super Bowl. Levi's Stadium, February 8th in Santa Clara. Is Santa Clara near there?

• 2:44:10Speaker 04

  That's where they play their game.

• 2:44:11Joe Rogan?

  That's where they play the game? But is that the training facility? The idea is that it's near the training facility.

• 2:44:16Speaker 04

  Right, and I don't, that's again, that's, this is...

• 2:44:19Joe Rogan?

  So that's where the electrical substation is? And there's the field? I mean, cut the shit.

• 2:44:24Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 2:44:25Joe Rogan?

  That's, that can't be good.

• 2:44:26Speaker 03

  So it's literally radiating onto them?

• 2:44:27Joe Rogan?

  That can't be good. But I don't think it's gonna affect the game. You know what I'm saying? I think it's like being there all the time, practicing there all the time is what's gonna weaken their bodies.

• 2:44:38Speaker 04

  Without checking, I don't know, I don't, unless that's where they practice, I don't see a large practice facility.

• 2:44:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, look at the fucking multi-use fields.

• 2:44:45Speaker 04

  I know, they don't practice on those fields generally.

• 2:44:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, but they use the fields. I mean, they must practice there.

• 2:44:50Speaker 04

  It could be, this could just be a park, that's why I gotta look up where they practice.

• 2:44:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:44:53Speaker 04

  The L.A. Rams don't practice next to SoFi Stadium, you know, they have...

• 2:44:56Joe Rogan?

  I can't imagine it's good for you. I mean, there's also, okay, we'll find this out. Is there any truth to power lines? And people living under power lines having increased rates of cancer? Cause I've heard that that's true.

• 2:45:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, in environmental college, that was, there's numerous giant class action lawsuits for people that were living under high tension power lines. And, I mean, I actually, I knew someone who, I mean, I've been to the places where I did for my senior project I was doing, where we went to the areas where they were fracking. Remember that, remember that documentary where they were lighting the water on fire?

• 2:45:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Gasland. Great documentary, yeah.

• 2:45:35Speaker 03

  And those people were screaming, they're trying to get the attention to say, "This is not good." And of course, the companies come in and they go, "We'll give you $2 million if you let us drill on your land." And these are people that could need the money.

• 2:45:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:45:46Speaker 03

  And then a few years later, all of their kids have cancer.

• 2:45:50Joe Rogan?

  Pull that back up again, please. So we put it into our sponsor, Perplexity. There's some limited evidence, a small increase in childhood leukemia risk, very close high voltage power lines, but overall the lick is weak, not clearly causal, and typically residential exposures are considered within safety guidelines. See, the thing is, it's like, who is, one of the things about Perplexity or any large language model is you've got to get the information from online and who's publishing this information. So it's like, there's only so much of it that's available, but possibly carcinogenic is a weak category. So parcel, so it says, "International Agency for Research in Cancer classifies extremely

• 2:46:35Joe Rogan?

  low-frequency magnetic fields, like those from power lines, as possibly carcinogenic to humans, mainly because of the childhood leukemia data." Fuck that, dude. That's wild. Yeah, just fuck that. I would never buy a house near them. What are you looking for? I'm just, I just realized what that is. It's a molar. Yep. Yeah, this is from my buddy John Reese from Alaska. That's that guy? Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, actually, no, this one is from Colossal. So that's a, that's a- This is the company that's bringing the woolly mammoth back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those guys. Um, this piece is from my buddy John Reese. That's a more, a molar. That's cool. Yeah, that's a tooth that they call- That's gorgeous. But that's how many of them they have, that they can turn into art. That they're just starting to make it into art. Yeah.

• 2:47:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, I have a pool cue that has woolly mammoth ivory in it. Dude, look at that. Look at that texture. I know, is that nuts? That is so beautiful. And that, that, you, something 10,000 years ago used that to mash down vegetables. Wow, that, that is a gorgeous piece. You know about the Boneyard, right? Yeah, no, you, you, the first time you told me all about it. Incredible place. Yeah, that's amazing. Shout out to my boy John Reeves. Yeah, that, that, I, I would love to go there. Oh, you should, dude. I would love to. It's pretty incredible. That's just so fascinating. Yeah, the Colossal guys have been up there. Quite a few people have been up there to explore. I, I think- Either Grant, no Randall, did Randall Carlson go up there? I think he's either gone there or is going there.

• 2:47:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta make the intro for me. I would love to go see that guy.

• 2:47:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'll set that up. He's always trying to get me to go out there too. I just don't have the time. But what a phenomenal place. By the way, he's found a new site. He's found a new site up there that has more bones. Yeah, I mean, it's, he's, you're talking about an area that's only about four to six acres.

• 2:48:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:48:14Joe Rogan?

  That he's been exploring and he's got others.

• 2:48:15Speaker 03

  Deposits, right?

• 2:48:16Joe Rogan?

  Massive deposits, thousands of animals. Including animals that weren't even supposed to be there.

• 2:48:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's so cool.

• 2:48:24Joe Rogan?

  Crazy and a thick layer of carbon. That indicates that fucking place was on fire.

• 2:48:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:48:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that, when you find fossils in the wild, there's nothing like finding fossils. I remember the first time I found like a little shell and then, like I said, we, not that long ago, we found like a seven foot turtle shell, thick, thick, thick, like black fossilized.

• 2:48:45Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:48:46Speaker 03

  In the river basin in the Amazon. The river was especially low and it was just, you know, it was half out. Like a crashed alien spaceship. Like it was just this huge thing and it was like, you get this sense, you get that, that tactile visceral sense of like, whoa, these used to be here.

• 2:49:02Joe Rogan?

  You know what they found in China recently?

• 2:49:04Speaker 03

  What'd they find?

• 2:49:04Joe Rogan?

  They found dinosaur eggs that the inside of them is all crystals now.

• 2:49:09Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:49:10Joe Rogan?

  It's crystallized.

• 2:49:12Speaker 03

  Is it like a crystallized baby velociraptor?

• 2:49:14Joe Rogan?

  No, it's just basically all crystal.

• 2:49:16Speaker 03

  Just crystal, like a geode.

• 2:49:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's a dinosaur egg. It's just over millions and millions of years.

• 2:49:23Speaker 03

  They're probably making art out of that right now.

• 2:49:25Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what they're doing with it.

• 2:49:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49:26Joe Rogan?

  I think it's fairly recent that this discovery, at least the article that I read was fairly recent about it. But it's just crazy shit, man. Oh, so much cool shit in the world.

• 2:49:36Speaker 03

  We're on such a cool planet.

• 2:49:37Joe Rogan?

  So here it is.

• 2:49:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49:38Joe Rogan?

  Seventy million year old dinosaur egg contains surprising, a sparkling crystal. Surprise. Isn't that nuts?

• 2:49:47Joe Rogan?

  Turned into crystals.

• 2:49:48Speaker 03

  That was a dinosaur egg.

• 2:49:49Joe Rogan?

  Grapefruit sized dinosaur egg from a fossil bed in China. Gave paleontologists huge surprise. Rather than a dinosaur embryo or sediment, it was filled with sparkling crystals of calcite lining the inner shell, a natural dinosaur geode. Rare occurrence provides researchers with unique information on the structure of the shell, in this case, a never before seen O species, O O S, O double O species, species of egg named, oh boy, good luck pronouncing that. Identified in 22 paper led by paleontologist Quing He of Anhui University in China. Not only that, it's among the first dinosaur eggs, or evidence of any dinosaurs for that

• 2:50:33Joe Rogan?

  matter, found in the roughly 70 million year old Upper Cretaceous Christian Formation of the Quishan Basin. Wow.

• 2:50:44Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 2:50:45Joe Rogan?

  Fucking A, man. Dinosaur eggs that are filled with, look at that, crystals.

• 2:50:51Speaker 03

  Beautiful. I mean, it looks like a geode.

• 2:50:53Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:50:54Speaker 03

  It's a dinosaur egg.

• 2:50:55Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 2:50:55Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 2:50:56Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 2:50:57Speaker 03

  That's wild. Yeah.

• 2:50:58Joe Rogan?

  The world's a wild place, my brother.

• 2:50:59Speaker 03

  The world's a really, really wild place.

• 2:51:00Joe Rogan?

  You know more than anybody.

• 2:51:01Speaker 03

  Well, that's what, I've been, I've been trying to see as much of it as I can and save as much of it as I can. It's been, it's been.

• 2:51:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm glad you're out there and I'm glad you're still alive, because you freak me out every now and then when you send me messages, I'm worried about your safety and I need someone to train me to use a gun, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, oh, we're dealing with the narco people, oh, Jesus Christ.

• 2:51:21Speaker 03

  Well, we're closer than we've ever have been. Thank you for how much you've been able to help us get that message out. This, this, this book is 20 years of the wildest shit. It's the story of Jane and how we, I went, how I met JJ, how we found the anacondas, all the, all the, everything that led to this. I mean, how, how, I mean, you talked about when you started out, I mean, just being a kid and you have a dream. And I mean, I went to the Amazon. I just wanted to see the Amazon. That was, that was the dream. I never in a million years imagined that I'd get to go on these adventures, see these animals, and then now that we're on the cusp of protecting an entire river, I mean, the wildest dreams that, that me as a kid had,

• 2:52:04Speaker 03

  couldn't even touch this. And so it's, it's, it's, it's a fun book to be sharing with people.

• 2:52:08Joe Rogan?

  Pretty fucking dope, my brother. And the book is Jungle Keeper: What It Takes to Change the World. Paul Rosely, available now. Thank you, my friend.

• 2:52:17Speaker 03

  I think you're in there. Thank you.

• 2:52:18Joe Rogan?

  Always great to see you. Let's do it again. Thank you, brother. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:52:38Speaker 06

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