Pod Insights Happy Place Dannii Minogue: “Resilience is a muscle!” Surviving The X Factor, divorce, and Kylie’s cancer About this episode Does going through a rough time make you untrusting of fleeting joyful moments, or make you lean into them harder? For Dannii Minogue it’s the latter.
In this chat with Fearne, Dannii explains why getting divorced and having to borrow money from family, coping with sister Kylie’s cancer, and having her body critiqued by the press have taught her to appreciate happiness when it comes.
Fearne and Dannii worked together on The X Factor for a bit, and they both discuss what it was like to work on such a juggernaut programme, and chat about how to understand what boundaries you might need to set in your career. They also talk about why Dannii’s so passionate about wrapping queer and non-conforming people in so much love and joyful celebration.
Plus, a little PSA from Dannii: try not to get bitten by a poisonous spider, it won’t end well...!
Dannii’s back as the host of I Kissed A Boy on BBC Three in May.
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Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service.
Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript 10,625 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:28 Fearne Cotton? Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that embraces the light and dark as it comes. And today, I'm chatting to Danny Minogue.
0:39 Speaker 02 Photographers were literally throwing themselves on the ground to get angles and shoot up your dress and your skirt. I was then compared to my sister, whose completely different body shape, always has been our entire lives, yet I wasn't living up to her body, which at the time fitted the standards of the only body shape there was, slim. I had to keep reminding myself, if I wasn't reading this or hearing it, do I get up in the morning and am I happy with myself? I am.
1:11 Fearne Cotton? I hope you're all doing well, my lovelies. I hope you had a nice Easter. I hope parents out there, carers, you survived the Easter holidays. Why are they so long? Is my first question. We did all the things and obviously like most parents, run out of things to do. My new thing, which I'm really into, I've done two now, is escape rooms. I didn't think they were going to be for me, but my friend Lavashni has got me onto escape rooms. And the first time I walked into an escape room, the first one we did was an Egyptian one. And I walked in and I was like, I don't get it. There's literally nothing in this room and you're telling me I have to get out of it. And I was slightly panicked. After great success, I found the last clue, by the way. You had to find a meteor and I found it. I'm hooked.
1:54 Fearne Cotton? So we also did another one the other day in Easter holidays and again, nailed it. Guys, it's my new thing. I am loving it. Maybe I could do a podcast in an escape room. Maybe I've taken it too far. Shall we talk about Danny Minogue? Danny is of course, an icon. I think we first met back on a kids TV show, might have been the Saturday show, which was a TV show I hosted back in the day. And I mean, I've interviewed her countless times and also we worked together on X Factor. I was doing Extra Factor, she was obviously a judge. And I've always had the most lovely encounters with Dani. She's so lovely, not show busy or starry at all, just like completely normal and so sweet.
2:39 Fearne Cotton? And I know you're gonna feel the same after you've listened to this chat. She's now back presenting the UK's first gay dating show, I Kissed a Boy, which, if you haven't seen it already, you're gonna love. This is a new series. It's so brilliant. We talk about a lot in this chat. We talk about, and this is such an important one, having worked in TV for a long time, how TV is moving towards looking after contributors and presenters' mental health. I mean, this was not a thing back in the day. Well, we know it's not. We've seen many people exploited on TV shows and contestants having a really troubling time once they step out of that bubble. But things are changing for the better. We also talk about how brutal the constant scrutiny of body image is and has been throughout
3:23 Fearne Cotton? celebrity, the time of celebrity. And Dani's obviously been on the receiving end of that in many, many ways. We also talk about her family life and her sister Kylie, who she has a beautiful, close relationship with, and so much more. I think you're gonna really like it.
3:41 Speaker 03 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. This is Nick and Jack from the best one. And we are excited to tell you about Walmart Business. Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly.
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4:49 Speaker 04 Are you sure we don't want to do gifts this year?
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5:22 Fearne Cotton? All right, we're going to get to Danny in just a moment. I sounded almost Australian when I said that. Why did I do that? But a quick reminder first that tickets for the Happy Place Festival are on sale now. There'll be so many amazing free events on the center stage, including breathwork, yoga, and, oh my God, so fun, live DJ sets at the end of each day. There are gorgeous poetry readings at the expressive arts area, and you can get your books signed by your favorite authors at the bookstall, too. Plus, we're going to be joined by some gorgeous, clever, insightful guests, including Millie McIntosh, Vogue Williams, Jordan Stevens, and Donna Ashworth. And if you've already got your tickets, keep an eye on our socials
6:06 Fearne Cotton? because we're going to be announcing some really cool workshops that you can sign up for very soon. There'll be some incredible ones across each of our key pillars: sound, yoga, meditation, craft, nutrition, movement, and, new for 2025, hormones. So just head to happyplacefestival.com to get your tickets, and I cannot wait to see you there. All right, here we go. This is the show.
6:53 Fearne Cotton? Danny Mano.
6:55 Speaker 02 I see you've got your book of notes.
6:57 Fearne Cotton? I've got my little notes.
6:58 Speaker 02 I know.
6:58 Fearne Cotton? My little nerd notes. I haven't seen you for so long. I couldn't even tell you when I last saw you in the flesh.
7:04 Speaker 02 I know, it's been a long time, but because I'm always looking at you on socials and stuff.
7:10 Fearne Cotton? Same.
7:10 Speaker 02 I feel like I've seen you. We have so many mutual friends and business partners and it's like, I'm talking about you all the time, but I thought since we're here and we're in a different space, that I would mention the first time I met you and, you know, we were, we'd seen each other, like many TV studios and I'm like a fish out of water in the UK and I'm trying to take on, what are all the shows, who are all the people and then you've got all the levels of, who's cool and who's not. Well, you were on like the uber cool list and I remember kind of,
7:49 Speaker 02 I don't know, even if I would cross paths with you, I'm like just wide berth, like I'm so uncool.
7:56 Fearne Cotton? I was the least cool person back then.
7:58 Speaker 02 So uncool. And I was kind of scared of you in a way and I thought this would be interesting.
8:05 Fearne Cotton? This is blowing my little mind.
8:07 Speaker 02 To find, yeah, what was going through my head and um, yeah, I was just like, oh my god.
8:13 Fearne Cotton? Oh my god, I felt, I felt so uncool. I remember around probably the era you're talking about, and I've still got it at home, you gave me a real pearl on like a choker, a choker necklace. And I've still got it at home.
8:27 Speaker 02 No.
8:28 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
8:28 Speaker 02 Oh my god.
8:30 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I was like, oh my god, Danny Mano's given me a present. I couldn't quite get my head around it.
8:35 Speaker 02 A choker necklace is now like.
8:36 Fearne Cotton? A choker. So 90s. It's so great.
8:39 Speaker 02 So back, so here.
8:40 Fearne Cotton? How funny. I mean, I was, I was so not cool at all back then and definitely didn't feel cool. And I would have been equally going, oh my god, it's Danny, it's Danny Mano. But I've, you know, we've had all these encounters over the years, not only in that era, like kids TV, but the last time I worked with you was when I did one season on Extra Factor before I left slash got sacked. Not quite sure, Blary Lyons.
9:02 Fearne Cotton? Very blurry lines.
9:05 Speaker 02 And we never got like a whole lot of contact with Extra Factor and keeping in mind like
9:11 Fearne Cotton? The schedule on that.
9:12 Speaker 02 The length of that day. And then the next day, we would go straight into rehearsing the songs for the next week, which none of the other judges went to. And I was always there at 10am. I'd get home at 1.30. It'd take me three hours to wind down from the adrenaline. And they're like, do you want to just pop up to Extra Factor? You just wanted to say, I'd rather stick pens in my eyes. But when you're the viewer at home and you got that extra bit, and I was like, I remember Adele came in one year because she was a super fan of the show. And it was amazing. It's just energy wise at that stage, you didn't get the best of us.
9:51 Fearne Cotton? It was crazy. I mean, I remember even doing the judges, not the judges' houses, what's the boot camp before that?
9:57 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:58 Fearne Cotton? And we were all in this big house slash hotel, I'm not sure what it was. And you would film all day until, you know, sort of 6am till midnight. You'd be on your knees and then you'd try and sleep. And all the contestants would be up practicing their songs, playing the piano. And you're like, this is torture. Absolute torture. I mean, the schedule was a joke. It's a hardcore show to be part of. It's one of those shows where you think, do I want to work in TV anymore? Like, this is too much. Because also the drama around it, did it put you off?
10:26 Speaker 02 It's interesting to hear you say that because I definitely had a moment where I'm just like, if, if this is what it is. Because TV was moving in that direction, but that I felt like was breaking through the ice, setting the path. And I felt like if this is it, I just, the toll it takes on your entire life. I don't know.
10:57 Speaker 02 If it's worth it to me. And so there was a lot of time went into thinking about that. And then I just remember thinking, the show is what it is and I've got to step off. It's, it's, it's, it's heading so fast in one direction. And actually, it had evolved and changed over the years and there were so many great bits. Don't get me wrong. I still like have moments all the time where I'm like, oh my God, I remember that. It was so good.
11:27 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
11:28 Speaker 02 But and the, and the friends that I've kept in contact, um. But yeah, it, it, it was, it took a real toll on everyone, everyone involved. It's been a great platform for a whole lot of new performers and for me, the real reward is, is seeing them really go and have these incredible careers. Cause you know, it took its toll on us all.
11:57 Fearne Cotton? Totally. And it's noisy, like the press around it was noisy. How did you deal with all of that?
12:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, I felt like I got caught up in a lot of the kerfuffle where it's just not my personality to be involved in that, to create it, to keep it going. But I feel like there was a machine that was keeping that going because it was incredible for the show. But I remember one time I was um on my way home, about to run out of petrol, because you don't have time to do anything. And I'm at the local station filling up with petrol and I'm like this and I'm like, there's probably a paparazzi there. I'm like, what do I? You're asking yourself in your head, what do I look like? You're filling your car up with petrol and then I, I look over and I remember seeing
12:47 Speaker 02 all of the newspaper covers in a row on the stands.
12:52 Speaker 02 And it was either my name or the show was on the front page of everything. So they did a great job at it. We worked towards my last season was its biggest one, 20 million people watching the final. So yes, were they achieving the, the people in charge of that? Yes, I just got to the point where I didn't want to be a part of it anymore.
13:15 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, it's a head fuck. It's not normal to be on the front of every newspaper. That's not normal. Then you have to go home and try and sleep. It's crazy.
13:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, especially when half of the stuff you're on the cover for didn't happen. And it just, when you're that tired.
13:30 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
13:30 Speaker 02 It's kind of impossible to, to deal with. But moving on, it was, it, it still was an incredible experience. And I felt like I dug deep into myself and found some strength there that I didn't know I had.
13:46 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I bet. I mean, going on to what you're doing now with I Kissed a Boy slash Girl, but we're back for I Kissed a Boy. I'm imagining, having had all that experience and where you're at in your career now, you can go into a show like that and say, for me to do my best, this is how I want things to be. Or at least offer up from past experience, how you think you might work best. Are there sort of certain stipulations where you might put that to a production team and say, I'm really not comfortable with that, but this is how you're going to get the best out of me?
14:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, I've got a, um, a creative credit on it because it's really important to me. I don't leave my family and go to another hemisphere and not be there for my one child, my teenage son that I've got the next few years with.
14:31 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
14:32 Speaker 02 I don't leave that for something unless it's important to me. I'm not going to do it. I've spent my life travelling around the world, being away, missing birthdays, weddings, funerals, the entire bit. And I'm really trying to find balance now, which I think becoming a parent forces you and enables you and allows you to give yourself permission to do. And then do something that you love so much that fills your bucket, fills your heart, that when you're there, you. Enjoy it as well. And there are just so many great things coming from this show. And it's so great for all the people involved, for the, for the, the crew as well as the cast on the show.
15:15 Speaker 02 Just the stories that are evolving from series one to now are wild.
15:20 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I bet.
15:21 Speaker 02 Have you seen the first episode?
15:23 Fearne Cotton? I haven't seen the first episode. I can't wait to watch it. I love the other series. And I think the most joyful thing is so many queer people in the world at the moment are scared. And there's a lot of negative change going on. And this just feels like joy. It's a celebration. And, and the first same-sex dating show, which seems crazy in the UK, that it's taken us this long to get to a place where that's just a great show that we're watching and it's normalized.
15:49 Speaker 02 Yeah. So, um, of course I would wanna be involved with the first show of this type. But not the wrong one with the wrong intentions. Like, that's what I said, like, at, at the point where I stepped off X Factor. I'm like, this show is going that way. And in, in my soul, I'm going in a completely different direction. So I was like, yes, I wanna be involved. And as I was reading the pitch for it, I'm like, oh, God, I hope this is good. Because I will not go near something that's not really treating people with such respect. And a place where it should be full of joy and love, because there are so few places that are safe like that.
16:33 Speaker 02 And that spark conversation in the way that it does and that are, and education as much as they are, um, entertainment. But I remember like from back in the day, performing at G A Y. It was this safe space for people to either be themselves or find out who they are. And, and, and those moments are imprinted in your, your memory and your soul and, and your personality. It's like, you know, my first kiss that I had at G A Y. And it's like, you move forward from there. And this TV show, it's like, all of my friends are saying, I wish I had something like this growing up.
17:12 Speaker 02 And so when they share their stories, it's so important to me. So I read the pitch and I'm like, this has gotta be good. Then it sounded too good to be true. Cause I'm like, people don't make TV like this. It's not about creating drama. It's not about making matches that you know are not gonna work cause it makes great TV. Not about that, okay. This is everything that dating shows are not in general, even when it's not just for this community. So, man, I grilled everyone. I felt like BBC Three was a great place because of what they'd done with Drag Race there. And it was like, okay, we're speaking to people who get it.
17:56 Speaker 02 And then for me, the deciding point to jump on was when I knew that there were psychiatrists and a help team there.
18:06 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
18:07 Speaker 02 From the start of the interviews and auditions, through every meeting, every bit of filming, and they get a year of care afterwards.
18:16 Fearne Cotton? Wow.
18:17 Speaker 02 And there's no other show that does it. So not only to be a part of a show that is about joy and love, as it should be, but to absolutely throw out the rulebook. And we've worked in TV for a long time. The first time I've ever, and I've been working since I was seven in TV, ever been offered, if you need to speak to someone, they're there, was on the first season of I Kissed a Boy. I was like, ever joined in that conversation, ever thought that my mental health was important and that it was acknowledged and cared for ever. And it would have been really helpful back in the X Factor days
19:02 Speaker 02 to have had anything like that. But it's there for, like, any of the crew can pop in, any of us at any time. So the feeling on set, we put that into the show, the love and the care and the respect for everyone involved. And my wish is that anyone who leaves any of the series, if someone walked up to them on the street or when they're out, cause they're now famous, and said, I was thinking of doing that, do you think I should do it? That. Without even thinking, they would say, yes.
19:34 Fearne Cotton? But that is so important. I mean, for the contestants and you to have that care is, I mean, I've never had anything like it. You know, as you say, we've both worked in telly a long time. I've, there's never been anything like that in place, certainly not for the presenters. You know, I would have loved to have had that at Radio One. Crikey, that would have helped me out a hell of a lot with that daily onslaught of feedback and people being particularly mean at certain periods, you know, it's, it's hard to go home and feel okay about yourself. But I think for contestants, when they've never been in that position, they've had a regular job or, you know, they've just been going about their life without loads of people having that level of commentary. Your brain can't cope with it.
20:14 Speaker 02 And then the level of that you are a community that has always been under attack.
20:20 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
20:21 Speaker 02 And globally, things are changing so fast. So from the time we film to the time when it airs and particularly this time between, we filmed September last year to now, the world has changed dramatically. And so we need to hold these people and create such a safe space around them to still be able to enjoy this experience. Because that was the first thing you said, and I'm so glad you did. It's about joy and love, and it is. That is what it's about.
20:54 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
20:54 Speaker 02 All of the rest, we, we make sure we, we cross off every little detail so it can just be about that.
21:01 Fearne Cotton? Well, I think for so long, and I guess it's happened incrementally from maybe when Big Brother started, that felt like the big first moment where we saw this sort of reality TV in the UK of like, this is so intriguing. Who are these people? I want to know about them. For, you know, that all felt quite innocent. And then slowly over the years, we felt that level of perhaps exploitation where it's like, are they in on this? Do they know what's going on here? Are the TV show aware that this person's probably going to feel quite vulnerable when they walk out of the doors of that studio? It's been a real weird grey area for a long time. And this feels like, you know, this show could set the tone for so many other shows now. The other shows need to step up and go, right, well, they're doing this. We need to have that duty of care for
21:45 Fearne Cotton? these people that are going to have to go and deal with their lifestyle after they've had this level of exposure and, and commentary.
21:51 Speaker 02 It would be great. And it's like, what an amazing space here to be able to speak to this, to you about this because. We've been there. Yeah. It feels like it's still going to be a long time before everybody that we know that's hosting and presenting has that care built in at work.
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23:00 Speaker 03 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. This is Nick and Jack from The Best One Yet, and we are excited to tell you about Walmart Business. Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly. Walmart Business helps you simplify operations
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24:12 Fearne Cotton? I mean, how have you dealt personally over this? As you said, you've been on TV and in the business since you were seven. That's an insane amount of time to be exposed to that amount of people. And I guess it's almost ingrained in you now to assume that people are going to be watching you, judging you, all the stuff that comes with being in the public eye. Have you dealt with it well over the years? Do you deal with it well now?
24:35 Speaker 02 I feel like over the years, a lot of the pressure has boiled down to, I have to seek out help. And sometimes as a young person, you don't know where to go. I was really lucky that I have a family that are very grounded and a really good, stable base for me. I can't imagine how people do it who don't have that. And then I think it puts a lot of pressure on your close inner circle, your friends. It's like they have to then become the therapist. And that's a lot for them. And then not there and they don't like they understand, but they don't. And then your relationships, you know, it's, it's a lot.
25:16 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, because every relationship you've ever had has been in the press. You've not had a relationship without that, I don't suppose.
25:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And I think that also there was a time where I, I imagined that you only go and seek help or see a therapist if you were really messed up or about to be locked up. Now we know it's a lot different than that, which is great. And I feel like I've got through the hardest time. I think the world changed during COVID and everybody understood that mental health is really important to everyone to take a breath, take some time, reset and then move on. And I feel like now in back in the day, if you said anything like this is really hard. It's like, oh, I'm complaining. You've got the best job in the world.
26:07 Speaker 02 But now that everybody's exposed to social media and they now get it, that one photo then attracts so many unwanted comments, negative and nasty and threatening and all of the rest. That finally, there's a space where you and I and other people can speak up about it without sounding like.
26:30 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, but also we've seen people die, you know, it's that serious. We see people take their own lives because it's too much. We've seen it happen countless times and, you know, yes, the job can be amazing. And there are obviously privileges and perks that come with it. But the, the weight that bears down on you when it's either press intrusion or very on mass negative commentary, the human brain, no matter who you are, doesn't like it, can't cope with it. And we do need something in place to, to help with that. I mean, you've also, I'm imagining.
26:59 Speaker 02 I'm so proud of what you've done.
27:00 Fearne Cotton? Oh, thanks, Dani.
27:02 Speaker 02 You've created a space for so many people to learn from. You're like, you lead by example. Thank you.
27:10 Fearne Cotton? Oh, God, well, I've, it's been the greatest joy of my career is completely pivoting out of necessity.
27:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
27:17 Fearne Cotton? But now just being as honest as I can be on any given day to talk about the stuff that's good and bad and ugly and, and all of it. And, you know, life is messy and we're all just trying our best to, to get through it. But I think we do need to have these, these conversations and to be able to talk about mental health, no matter who you are, no matter if you're in a lucky or unfortunate position. You know, we're all dealing with life's twists and turns and things that are being chucked our way.
27:48 Speaker 02 Hmm.
27:49 Fearne Cotton? I'm imagining like me, you've made certain decisions that have helped you feel better. I'm assuming one of them is moving back to Australia because you were here for a very long time, like over 20 years. Was that a conscious decision to? You know, maybe get away from the UK press or was it more about just family? What was that decision based around?
28:07 Speaker 02 Um, I had my baby and I wanted to be around family. I never envisaged going back, but then I never saw myself as being a mum. And then I was and I'm like, well, as all the hormones were moving inside my body, I just wanted to nest. And it was just that, you know, primal, just mum thing of just wanting to be surrounded by love and security. And I felt like, you know, I've, I've worked hard enough and long enough to be able to do this. And um, I've kind of always made choices that on paper, you know, everyone around you might say, ah, but you've worked so hard for this, don't leave now.
28:51 Speaker 02 But uh, it felt right and I've, I've got a good team that understand that, you know, the value of what you get out of life is more than just the total sum of work.
29:04 Fearne Cotton? Yeah. Oh my god, but I think, you know, I've been working not quite as long, but since I was fifteen. And it does become such a part of your DNA, like who am I without that? Like what, what, what's my skill set or what are my positive qualities? It all becomes quite conflated because you've done it for so long and you, and you're doing it a lot. You know, like most days or at least thinking about it.
29:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
29:27 Fearne Cotton? When having your son or even just in periods where you've made that decision to be back home and not be just so on the treadmill, how have you found that sort of integrating into just being? And who is Danny without the, the stage and the mic and the people around you?
29:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, I um, there was quite an addiction to the just working all the time. Because there was, I was frightened if I didn't. And if you take a, a day or anything, you're just constantly reminded, if you don't do that, someone else will step in and do it. And then you won't have that chance again. You're like, again, I, I, I can't breathe for a second. I think a little bit of age and experience allows you to just be strong and say, it's okay. I just can not do that.
30:16 Fearne Cotton? Yeah. It's hard though. I mean, I find that hard. I'm like, it's all gonna end and I'll just have to go and live with my mum and dad. Like, I still have that now. It's ridiculous.
30:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think that's any kind of performer, you're just like, it could end tomorrow, it could end tomorrow. And we don't want it to because it, it, it fills us up on so many levels. And there's the busyness. And um, yeah, I definitely know when my partner says to me, like, you just, just stop.
30:48 Fearne Cotton? Stop. Halt.
30:50 Speaker 02 Yes. You know, when you stop working, but then you're like busy with this. So you're just.
30:55 Fearne Cotton? I'm the same. How much of that busyness is about you getting a kick out of it versus needing to be distracted?
31:02 Speaker 02 I think just only knowing how to be busy for so long, it's just undoing that. I'm very good at being, if I set time aside, like I love meditating. And I love that space where you can just go beyond and out of what's happening. And I just, I feel like I just wanna do more and more of that really quiet time stuff.
31:33 Fearne Cotton? I am on and off the wagon with that one. I'll go through great periods where I'm like, oh my God, this is so good, exactly what I need. And then other times where I'm like, I haven't got time for that, which is obviously why I should be doing it. I haven't got time for that. I can't be bothered. I'd rather clean the cupboard out or do the dishwasher.
31:50 Speaker 02 That's mindful as well. Like, I don't mind.
31:52 Fearne Cotton? I think so.
31:53 Speaker 02 I don't mind a vacuum to like, think about, help.
31:56 Fearne Cotton? I love a jet wash.
31:57 Speaker 02 Rig.
31:58 Fearne Cotton? I love a jet wash. Don't get me started on the jet wash. Something about that and seeing the results. Oh my God. It's heaven.
32:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
32:05 Fearne Cotton? It's so good.
32:06 Speaker 02 Yeah.
32:06 Fearne Cotton? But I know it's, I think as you get older, maybe you do feel slightly braver that you can take your foot off the gas a little bit.
32:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
32:13 Fearne Cotton? But it is so hard. And also.
32:16 Speaker 02 And I think also, so when I was growing up, there were never women beyond a certain age that were showing up in in TV. So I'm like, I've got to do it all now because then I I literally won't work again, regardless of my skill set, or if people like me or want me, that's just not possible. So to be able to see other women to go, it is possible. I think the more you step into your authenticity and you who you are and what brings you joy, it is there for you. You are a shining example of that. So I think
32:53 Speaker 02 it's it's having seen that around us now enables us to breathe and say, well, it's okay.
33:02 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, we were in that era where that was so true. You know, you reached a certain age and you were booted off a TV show or you, you know, weren't a pop star anymore. It was like, that was what was happening. And it's
33:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
33:14 Fearne Cotton? That does make you feel quite urgent about things. Like, I have to do everything right now because it's gonna
33:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, so we were in the era of, you know, the supermodels were around. It's amazing to see them back on the runway. I love Jane Fonda to see her around. Like, there's so many incredible women in all sorts of different fields of entertainment that are now giving me hope that I can I can go home and I can I can have these crucial years with my son before he's ready to be busy on his own.
33:45 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, which is like not far off. I mean, we were also in the era where there was, you know, the circle of shame and people were like watching you for your every wrong move, outfit, what your body was doing. How much of that do you think stayed with you? Because I think the one thing I know from growing up as a teenager on the telly is it's not conducive to having healthy body image. For me, it certainly wasn't. I became so, you've got TV monitors facing you that you can see all the time. What do I look like? What angle is this? What's my good angle? What's my bad angle? And that level of obsession becomes so normalized that that's just something that you have to think about constantly and then starts to seep into your Real life a little bit, or actually quite a lot for me.
34:29 Fearne Cotton? I think that is hard to shake when it's so indoctrinated after years and years of. Like you said, you're at the petrol station, you don't want to get caught out by a pat taking a bad shot. You're at the fucking petrol station, do you know what I mean? Not meant to look glamorous at the petrol station, but it becomes such second nature. How has that impacted you, would you say?
34:47 Speaker 02 The hardest time I had was um not long after I arrived in the UK and um. Photographers were literally throwing themselves on the ground to get angles and shoot. Up your, your dress and your skirt.
35:05 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
35:06 Speaker 02 Horrendous.
35:07 Fearne Cotton? Getting out of a cab, it was always the case, yeah.
35:09 Speaker 02 So I had that, I was nineteen when I arrived, so I'm still a teenager. And then not only to have all of that, all the monitors, all the press, all the feedback. I was then compared to my sister who's completely different body shape, always has been our entire lives. Yet I wasn't living up to her body, which at the time fitted the standards of what the only body shape there was, slim. Now, there's so much based around curves. That's always been me, yet I didn't, I was like a square trying to fit through a hole.
35:47 Speaker 02 Still do what I was doing, still evolve out of a teenager into a woman on my own, at the other side of the world. And you read back how nasty the comments were, so. There were so many levels I was trying to negotiate and I had to keep reminding myself if I wasn't. Reading this or hearing it, do I get up in the morning and am I happy with myself? I am. And at the time, I was so mentally strong. And I've said this to my friends, I'm like, I know that if I wasn't mentally strong and I did have any kind of eating disorder, I would not be alive now. That is fact.
36:31 Speaker 02 It was so brutal and went on for years. But it did have a delayed effect later on. When I look back and I'm like, you know, that time to breathe and reflect and it's like, I felt like an idiot. That I, it's like, why did you stay in that position where you allowed that to happen to you? But it was the industry, it was what was normal. If you want this job as a pop singer, especially female pop singer in the nineties, this is what it looks like. And this is what it's only ever gonna look like.
37:15 Speaker 02 So it's either your career or not. And I'm like, I I've worked my entire life for this. I've moved halfway around the world. Am I gonna let these few comments get me? But like, looking back on it, I'm angry at myself, I'm mad, but I'm like, proud of myself, I'm like, what else could you do? And you got through it and you're alive and you're really kind of a little bit confused. But um, hey, if that's as bad as it is, that that's, that's all right. But yeah, it got, it got me years later, which is the best case scenario, when I could deal with it.
38:00 Speaker 02 Thank God it didn't take hold in any other shape at the time.
38:04 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I mean, but there wasn't the space for anybody at that point to say, this doesn't feel fair. Hello, can everyone stop talking about my body? Or even the space for women to look different in the public eye. As you say, it was like this identikit person that everybody was meant to, to be as a pop star. And if you didn't fit into it, there was no, you know, now we've got, it's certainly not a perfect world. We all know that, but there is at least a whole range of different body types we're seeing and people from different backgrounds who are shining and inspiring people. And it just felt
38:37 Speaker 02 It wasn't back then.
38:37 Fearne Cotton? Very narrow back then. No, no space to do it. I mean,
38:42 Speaker 02 And I think that the it all broke wide open when there were music sharing platforms and people just started to go, this is who I am, this is what I'm seeing, this is what I'm doing, put stuff up and it got traction. And the record companies were suddenly like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we control what is happening and what everyone's gonna like. And suddenly it all changed. So it's through these people who are seeing in their bedrooms, filming themselves and putting it up online that had a knock on effect to everybody who was already in the industry.
39:17 Fearne Cotton? Hmm, I know, it's wild.
39:20 Speaker 02 That's wild.
39:21 Fearne Cotton? It is.
39:21 Speaker 02 The power of the people.
39:22 Fearne Cotton? Yes, we love it, we're here for it.
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39:58 Speaker 03 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.
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40:49 Fearne Cotton? I mean, I always think it's so extraordinary when there's more than one family member who excelled, certainly in the same area, but when they have, you know, multiple kids who are doing like at the top of their game. Why do you think for you and Kylie, what was it? Was it your mum and dad? Is it just how your, you know, how your mindset was established as children that allowed you to both not only excel, but stick around in an industry that is unforgiving, brutal, relentless? There's always someone, you know, waiting in the wings to take over. What do you think it is in your makeup that has allowed you both to do that?
41:26 Speaker 02 I feel like we were born loving this, loving everything about it. Like the minute we saw Abba and a Living Newton John and the movie Grease, our little minds were blown. And we were just like, that, that, we want to do that. And then, you know, my sister got inspired by, you know, other artists. I remember she was really into Prince. I remember that record playing over and over and over. And then cut forward to a moment, there was me, Kylie and Prince at an event. And I just, I just looked over and I'm like, it's wow.
42:01 Fearne Cotton? Look what you've manifested.
42:03 Speaker 02 Yeah. So I don't know. I feel like some parts of everyone's lives, part of the direction is set and you find your way within that direction. We just loved it. You know, like my son, he loves basketball and sport. Don't throw a ball at me. I cannot catch to save my life. But that's what he loves. You can't choose for people what they love. And we just, it was in us. We got some lucky breaks and from those, we, we worked so hard and were so diligent and have put up with a lot and have tried to do it with grace
42:48 Speaker 02 and tried to let people know, yeah, there's tough bits, but we love this more than anything. And just that strong foundation of family.
42:58 Speaker 02 I think we both would have given it up a long time ago without that.
43:02 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, would you say you've both had to develop thick skins to get through it? Because I think it is, it's full on. I don't think I have got a thick skin. I think I'm pretty sort of sensitive and don't cope very well with a lot of this industry. But I guess there is a resilience that maybe incrementally builds through going through shit bits. Do you think you've had to get a tough, a thick skin?
43:25 Speaker 02 I think you look forward and you look back and you go, I got through that. So surely I can do this. And there's, there's always, you know, those moments of huge doubt. And I always, like, if I'm feeling wobbly, I stop and talk with my team and I'm like, hey, guys, I'm just gonna be honest, I don't think I can do this. It's not like you're so thick skinned, you'd never have to think of it again. Just maybe build the muscle to keep dealing with what's thrown at you.
44:00 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
44:01 Speaker 02 But it definitely felt like one of the hardest times was I got married. I thought I was gonna be, that this is it, because I've got this, you know,
44:13 Speaker 02 picture perfect parents to look up to and, and this is where it's gonna be. And then when that all fell apart, it was not only being broken hearted, but being broke.
44:28 Speaker 02 I had no money in the bank and I was borrowing money from my family and trying to make it work and dealing with an industry that was, you know, very, very tough. That is the darkest, hardest, hardest time I've ever been through. And then when Kylie was sick with cancer, that was, that was like a real challenge. Because as that was, you know, hardest a family to get through.
45:00 Speaker 02 And then the minute my sister stuck, kind of threw her treatment back again. My best friend died of cancer and I was just like slowly trying to deal with that. And just my brain and heart, nothing had caught up. So, I mean, you, you, you do look back and you go, I, I got through that, I got through that. But it's not to say something isn't coming up that won't make me really go.
45:26 Fearne Cotton? We just don't, we don't know. We just don't know. But like you say, you have to draw on the fact that you've been through shit things and you are, you're still standing, you're still.
45:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, and like, we never know.
45:38 Fearne Cotton? You just don't know.
45:39 Speaker 02 What's around the corner, but.
45:40 Fearne Cotton? What do you think got you through it? Is that again, something that's.
45:43 Speaker 02 Family.
45:44 Fearne Cotton? Family, yeah.
45:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:45 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, it's so important, so important. And I guess especially when there's illness involved, to all gather round and be there for each other. Because everyone's affected, you know, you've got the person that's going through it, you've got, well, you've also got the layer of like the press intrusion as well. But then, you know, every family member is dealing with it in their own way and trying to get through it. It's a, it's like a whole army to get that person, well, everyone through it. It's so full on.
46:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
46:13 Fearne Cotton? It's so full on.
46:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, so it's brought, I mean, incredible joy and, and lots of challenging, challenging times, yeah.
46:23 Fearne Cotton? And I think, do you think that having been through, you know, like most of us, challenging times? Or certainly things that have really rocked your boat, that that's helped you to lean into the good times more? That you're more appreciative in that sort of cliche way?
46:37 Speaker 02 I think it just, it, it makes the bright brighter and the dark darker. If that's like, I'm very visual, it's like a colour crunching thing. Cause the, the joy, I feel it, like the cells in my body, like everything's like, and I'm very expressive and, you know, I'm amazed I haven't knocked this mic over yet. But it was, ah, you know.
46:58 Fearne Cotton? You're handy, yeah.
46:59 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, I'm like all about, it's a full body.
47:01 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
47:02 Speaker 02 You know, so I, I really jump into, to that energy and that joy. But it just highlights it, it makes it brighter.
47:12 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I think it's such an interesting one because. Either you go down that route of, oh my god, I'm gonna lean into these good times because I understand how precious they are. Versus the other side of the coin, which can be, I've been through something shit, so now I don't trust anything good. Because I certainly went through a period of that, when I'd had a rough time. For years after, I thought, I don't trust this feeling of being happy or being okay. Because it'll go. I'm not even gonna experience it, I'm just gonna kind of skirt around it a little bit.
47:43 Speaker 02 The now you have happy place.
47:45 Fearne Cotton? The now I'm in it, no, I'm like, I'm learning. I think it's like, learning to just lean into the good bits and go, yeah, I can just trust that this will last for however long it lasts. But I'm feeling good, I'm feeling happy. Because otherwise you're just sort of skirting around it all to try and avoid feeling pain, which you're gonna feel anyway.
48:03 Speaker 02 I think that you can't have just the happiness without everything else. So if you accept that there's light and dark, and there's happiness and sadness in life. And so you're not expecting, it should always be good. And when I'm not in that good zone, then it's bad. It's not bad, it's all part of it. And we've got to balance between one and the other, but it's like, you know, this too shall pass. It's like, just gotta keep moving and be fluid and keep going forward.
48:37 Fearne Cotton? Does that help you mitigate feeling overwhelmed? Because I'm imagining with your schedule, with having just shot this new TV show, and you've done a series of this before, and you've got fingers in all these different pies and business deals and projects you're working on. I'm sure there's that moment of overwhelm. And you're also a mum of a teenager, and you're travelling around the world. How do you stop going, oh fuck, this is all too much?
49:04 Speaker 02 I had a very overwhelming, challenging situation when we were filming this series. It's so stupid and bizarre, but it was so overwhelming. It kind of sounds comical when I talk about it. So there are a lot of things going on that were kind of just like, okay. I mean, it it started off with lost luggage. I know that sounds.
49:28 Fearne Cotton? Oh, no, that's my my nightmare.
49:29 Speaker 02 It sounds stupid, but that was thing. And then there were some health issues within the team group. And I'd left Australia, like, I have a lot of friends that say I won't go to Australia because the I go wine. They're like, because spiders are like, I also don't like spiders. And I got bitten three times before I got on the plane.
49:51 Fearne Cotton? By.
49:52 Speaker 02 By whitetail spider. Now whitetails, you've probably heard of redbacks, super bad. Whitetails, next worst spider to be bitten by.
50:00 Fearne Cotton? I've never even heard of these guys.
50:02 Speaker 02 They're really tiny and they're really, like, if you think of a scorpion, like, how, like, powerful that is and it's tiny. It's it's a tiny spider and it's very distinctive in its shape and everything and its bite and how the bite progresses. Any old who, I get bitten twice on one leg, once on the other leg. And I'm coming to England, I'm doing some work here with my fashion brand and I'm like having to. These are open wounds, they don't heal quickly. I'm having to like cover up these wounds and try and reorganize my clothing. And I'm like, it's annoying, but doable and I'm fine. I get to Italy and I'm saying, conversations with the D O P, I'm really sorry, can't do this angle because, you know, I'm just.
50:47 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I've been bitten by a deadly spider, yeah.
50:50 Speaker 02 Got all these bandages. I'm like, I'm doing my best, but I it's so open. I can't put makeup on it or anything. We'd spent six months of organizing the costumes, which then I can't just magic them.
51:01 Fearne Cotton? The dresses are to die for. Can't cope with the outfits.
51:06 Speaker 02 Thank you. And so then I was so paranoid, I'd said, please call ahead, have my room sprayed. I can't have any bugs around me, which was all done.
51:17 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
51:18 Speaker 02 Then I wake up one morning and I think I've been bitten by mosquitoes. Mosquitoes tend to love me as well.
51:24 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
51:24 Speaker 02 And I was like, oh, these are really itchy. I couldn't sleep for four nights in a row. And I'm like, oh, it's so itchy. I like, I couldn't get a wink of sleep until I wake up and like every day the crew was, you know, so nice. Do you wanna go and see the medic? And I'm like, what's he gonna do? They're mosquito bites, right? Which are all over my legs and one on my arm, but around where I was bitten before. And then they erupt one day and I'm sending photos to the medic. These are like, they're, they're photos like in medical books that make you vomit.
51:54 Fearne Cotton? What do you mean erupt? What's happened?
51:56 Speaker 02 They, they, they go in this big blister bubble that's pussy.
52:00 Fearne Cotton? Right.
52:00 Speaker 02 It's, it's, you'd puke.
52:03 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
52:03 Speaker 02 And so I send it to the medic and he's like, oh, these are, these are spider bites. And he's like, the good news is we don't have dangerous spiders here like we do in Australia. I had no idea. The, the medic lives in Australia, so he knows. And he's like, are you really scared? And I go, no, I just got bitten by really deadly spiders before I left. People in Italy saying, no one ever sees spiders around.
52:25 Fearne Cotton? You're a spider magnate. What's going on?
52:27 Speaker 02 Nobody gets bitten by spiders. So I'm now like, literally, hopefully you don't see it in the edit. I'm like, suck it up, stroll onto this set and, and make this amazing for the boys. Bunch of them, boys, like, ciao.
52:42 Fearne Cotton? She just wore leg warmers.
52:43 Speaker 02 Oh, my God. Underneath I had like, I was just with legs up and ice packs the entire time. And that was like a physical, physical first, mental and emotional second challenge where I'm just like, we're in Italy, we've got three weeks to, with the masserias here, with this is the only time we can shoot it. And I, I don't know if I can get through this.
53:06 Fearne Cotton? No.
53:06 Speaker 02 It was so bad, but.
53:08 Fearne Cotton? And then your son's the other side of the planet and you're worrying, you know, we'll see, has he got his school stuff ready? Like it's the mind.
53:15 Speaker 02 It was so bad, but I'm like, seriously, I've been bitten by spiders so many times. It's not like in the movie where he gets super spidey powers and he's like.
53:24 Fearne Cotton? That did not happen.
53:25 Speaker 02 I wish that would happen.
53:26 Fearne Cotton? Such a shame.
53:27 Speaker 02 I know. I've watched all those films with my son and that wasn't me. Um, yes. So now I have a healthy amount of little, um. Reminders.
53:37 Fearne Cotton? Wow.
53:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, I don't need the tattoos there.
53:39 Fearne Cotton? I mean, that's enough to overwhelm anyone.
53:42 Speaker 02 Oh, it's.
53:43 Fearne Cotton? You're like, I thought you were gonna say something like really banal. That's like, it's kind of a big deal getting bitten by a deadly spider. Like, you're allowed to be dramatic about that. It's okay.
53:50 Speaker 02 Well, they weren't deadling Italy, but like, it got me five times. And this is after three bites. So it was also the accumulation of all of this, like, poison in my system. I'm like, welcome to August, boy.
54:04 Fearne Cotton? It's too much.
54:05 Speaker 02 It's a demarche, it's a march.
54:07 Fearne Cotton? Well, well done for getting through that. What a shit show.
54:10 Speaker 02 It was. You know what TV's like. What's going on?
54:13 Fearne Cotton? Oh, no one knows.
54:14 Speaker 02 Behind the scenes is a whole other.
54:15 Fearne Cotton? You're a swan above the water.
54:17 Speaker 02 So.
54:18 Fearne Cotton? With little spider bitten legs beneath the water, pedaling like this.
54:21 Speaker 02 I know.
54:22 Fearne Cotton? Um, I'm gonna end by asking you, Dani Minogue, where is your happy place? It can be metaphorical, figurative, or tangible.
54:33 Speaker 02 I mean, being a mum, it's just, it's the best. If it's something I'm doing, I like cooking and feeding people and eating myself.
54:44 Fearne Cotton? What's your dish? Like. What's the dish?
54:46 Speaker 02 Uh, a seared tuna.
54:48 Fearne Cotton? Mmm.
54:48 Speaker 02 Or a risotto. I get lots of requests for.
54:52 Fearne Cotton? Mmm.
54:53 Speaker 02 And yeah, I'll try and cook anything. Um, yeah, it's that warmth and family and that feeling of hug, whether it's through food or a real hug being there, all of that kind of stuff. Just normal.
55:09 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, a big, full dinner table is a dream, isn't it?
55:12 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
55:13 Fearne Cotton? I love that. It's so nice, so nice. Well, what a treat it's been to catch up with you. I mean, we've, we've, we've missed out like years and years. We've got like 20 years to catch up on, but it's been so lovely to see you and I love your new show. I'm so glad you've made this new series. It's just, as I said at the start, pure joy.
55:32 Speaker 02 The boys are incredible. Watch.
55:34 Fearne Cotton? Can't wait to meet them.
55:35 Speaker 02 Watch it, watch it, watch it. So good. Yeah.
55:38 Fearne Cotton? And just good luck with all the rest of it and all of your projects that you've got on the go.
55:42 Speaker 02 Thank you.
55:43 Fearne Cotton? Thanks, Dani.
55:45 Fearne Cotton? Oh, Dani, really loved that. We'll let you into behind the scenes stuff. As Dani was leaving the Happy Place studio, I was really hinting to get her phone number.
55:58 Fearne Cotton? I don't know if I've succeeded or not. We've got mutual friends and I was sort of just casually mentioning them, guys. So maybe me and Dani will see each other soon, I hope, because I loved spending time with her. And now she lives in Australia, I don't see her anywhere near enough, so hopefully we can stay in touch. But I just love that chat. And she was also saying, when we came out of the studio, that episode one of this new series is so major. I mean, she was dropping huge cliffhanger hints that we need to watch this ASAP, so I'm in. Dani's show, I Kissed a Boy, returns to BBC Three in May, so very, very soon. Right, we're about to get into May. Summer is coming, I can feel it.
56:40 Fearne Cotton? Most importantly, that means we're reading a new book in our Happy Place Book Club. So the one we're reading together this month is called Great Big Beautiful Life, and it's by Emily Henry, who first came on my radar because one of her books is called Happy Place and people kept tagging me in it and I kept seeing the book everywhere. Let me tell you about this book. Two writers are competing for the chance to tell the larger-than-life story of a famous reclusive heiress. One of them is going to uncover the truth behind one of the most scandalous families of the 20th century. The thing is, heiress Margaret is giving each writer different tantalizing little pieces of her story. This, for me, feels like a really good early summer bit of escapism, so I'm here for it and I want to take it on my holidays.
57:23 Fearne Cotton? If you want to read along with us, you can join the chat on Instagram at Happy Place Book Club. And I really hope I see you there. We can chat about it over there. Right, I'm back here soon. In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Dani, to the producer, Anushka Tate, at Happy Place Studios, and to you, you're my absolute favourites.
58:08 Speaker 03 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.gle/workspacewithGemini.
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59:39 Speaker 04 I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone, and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade-in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.
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