Pod Insights Scamfluencers Doris Payne: Diamonds are a Girl’s Best Grift | 170 About this episode Frustrated by the racist, sexist stereotypes keeping her down, Doris Payne started swiping precious jewels out of spite as a teen. For the next seven decades, she executed heists across nine countries, with thefts totalling an estimated $2 million. She spent her life dodging the FBI, Interpol, and countless precincts all over the U. S. by being fabulous, charming, and absolutely relentless. Now in her 90s, she’s still regarded as America’s most prolific jewel thief.
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Transcript 8,735 words · 11 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Scaachi Koul? Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:08 Sarah Hagi? A heads up to our listeners. This episode details an incident of domestic violence. Please listen with care.
0:21 Sarah Hagi? Sachi, I think you and I both share the formative experience of working at various retail jobs. I want to know, have you ever encountered shoplifters or thieves?
0:32 Scaachi Koul? I've worked at several retail joints. Sarah, you might remember Jacob.
0:37 Sarah Hagi? Yep, the cute, casual, but formal women's wear clothing store.
0:42 Scaachi Koul? It was classy. Jacob was classy. Very classy, yeah. You were a classy girl if you had a pencil skirt from Jacob, which I had several. And I wandered away from my section one day and a man walked in and just took a whole table of clothes. And I got in so much trouble. But I still, till this day, was like, did they think me at 21 was gonna like chase down that guy?
1:04 Sarah Hagi? Yes. I mean, I worked at so many stores in my teens and twenties. And I gotta say, I did not care when people shoplifted because it wasn't my job to monitor them. And I'm not gonna risk my life for a store that's gonna get money back from insurance. You know what I mean? Like, what do you want me to do?
1:20 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I didn't care about the stores that much either, which is maybe why Jacob no longer exists.
1:25 Sarah Hagi? Yep, that is very true, sadly.
1:27 Scaachi Koul? That's my fault. Sorry, everybody.
1:30 Sarah Hagi? Well, I say this because today we're covering a different kind of scammer. Doris Payne made a name for herself by turning petty theft into an art form. She actually might be the most glamorous woman we've ever covered on this show. And I am just warning you now, you will get Stockholm Syndrome.
1:50 Sarah Hagi? It's October 2013, and Raju Mehta is standing behind the counter of El Paseo Jewelers, a luxury boutique in Palm Springs. Raju is a sharply dressed Indian man wearing designer glasses, and as the store's owner, he takes great pride in his work. Today, a new customer enters the store and introduces herself as Audrey. She's an older black woman who looks to be in her 80s with short, white hair, a regal stature, and a pristine outfit. Sachi, take a look at this fabulous woman.
2:22 Scaachi Koul? Very hot, power stance, red dress, great hair, amazing skin. Looks way younger than a woman in her 80s. I am afraid of her and would like to give her all of my money.
2:36 Sarah Hagi? Well, Audrey tells Raju that her jewelry was recently stolen, and she's got a $40,000 check from insurance to replace her collection. Raju shows her several necklaces and diamond rings, and Audrey tries them on while they chat. When she tells him about her aching hip, Raju offers her a chair like a true gentleman. At one point, Raju leaves the counter to tend to other business while Audrey continues browsing. She's got her eye on a three-carat diamond and white gold ring worth over $22,000. Raju returns, and she tells him she'll be back tomorrow with the cashier's check to finalize her purchase. At the end of the day, Raju locks up. When he arrives back at the store the next morning,
3:21 Sarah Hagi? he's met with a shock. The ring Audrey was admiring is missing. One of his coworkers shows him a security alert about a thief who's been prowling the area, and Raju recognizes the description. It's Audrey. Except, according to the alert, Audrey's real name is Doris Payne. In Raju's decades-long career, no one's ever stolen right in front of him, especially not a sweet old lady like Doris. But Doris is anything but innocent and sweet. She's already sold the ring at a local pawn shop, and she's done this many times before. Doris is a criminal mastermind and an international jewel thief. And though many have tried to take her down,
4:05 Sarah Hagi? it's going to take a lot more than a few arrests to dull her shine.
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4:43 Speaker 03 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way.
4:49 Speaker 03 When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. Listen to "Over My Dead Body: Operation Side Swipe" wherever you get your podcasts.
5:06 Sarah Hagi? From Wondery, I'm Sarah Haggie. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers.
5:20 Sarah Hagi? Doris Payne is one of the most relentless characters we've covered on this show. Her career as a jewel thief spans seven decades across nine countries, with thefts totaling an estimated $2 million. She's been wanted by the FBI, Interpol, and countless precincts all over the country. Doris takes advantage of people's sexist and racist biases to pull off a scam that's bold as hell. And once she perfects her scheme, she travels all over the country and the globe over a lifetime of nonstop scamming. I'm calling this one, "Doris Payne: Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Grift."
6:03 Sarah Hagi? It's the early 1930s, and four-year-old Doris is playing in the backyard with her big sister. Doris is the daughter of a black coal miner and a Cherokee woman, and she's growing up in a West Virginia coal-mining town. Even though they're working class, her mom Clemmie wants her daughters to know about the finer things in life, so she reads to them from Harper's Bazaar and Town and Country magazines. This inspires Doris's favorite game called Miss Lady, where she dresses up and pretends to be the fancy ladies in the pictures. But her childhood isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Around this time in Doris's young life, she sees her dad physically abuse her mom. Doris sprints into action and starts hitting his leg,
6:48 Sarah Hagi? but he doesn't stop until Clemmie is on the ground. This is just one of many abusive incidents Doris witnesses throughout her childhood. And as she gets older, she starts protecting her mom more fiercely. When she's 12 or 13, she throws a scalding hot pot of beans on her dad's back to get him to stop beating her mom. Her father only seems to get violent with Clemmie and not the kids. So not long after, Doris convinces her mom to leave her dad and run away. Clemmie knows that her daughter is right, so she goes to New York and finds work as a seamstress at Saks Fifth Avenue while Doris and her siblings stay behind. Things are peaceful for a while.
7:29 Sarah Hagi? Even though Doris misses her mom, she's glad she's out of harm's way. About a year later, Doris gets her period, and as you can imagine, her dad is no help. Her mom gets word of the news, and Clemmie moves back home. When she returns, things are different for a little while. Clemmie has her own money, so they're not as dependent on her dad. But when the money runs out, her dad gets controlling again. Doris hates seeing this and vows that when she gets old enough, she's going to make her own money and never let a man control her life.
8:05 Sarah Hagi? At some point after Clemmie's return, she sends Doris to the local general store to pay off the family's bill. Clemmie says that while Doris is there, she should check out the watches for sale. She's doing well in school, and Clemmie will buy her one if she keeps up the good grades. At the store, Doris walks up to the glimmering display case full of watches. She feels like one of the fabulous ladies in Harper's Bazaar. The owner of the store, Mr. Benjamin, reads her and offers her a gumdrop on the house. He's a man with dark hair, kind eyes, and a reputation for being nice. Mr. Benjamin lets her try on a few watches. But then, a white man enters the store, and Mr. Benjamin's demeanor changes.
8:50 Sarah Hagi? He snatches the watches away and tells her to run along. She can see that he's embarrassed this new customer saw him being nice to a black girl. Doris is angry and humiliated. Then, she notices that one of the watches is still on her wrist. Years later, she described what she did next in the documentary, "The Life and Crimes of Doris Payne."
9:13 Speaker 04 Mr. Benjamin forgot I had that watch on. So I decided, I'm not going to give it to him right here. I'm mad. I'm going all the way to the door and shout back and give it to him. That will fix him. Treat me like that because this other man came in.
9:32 Sarah Hagi? Mr. Benjamin stammers while Doris slowly removes the watch from her wrist and deliberately places it in his hand. Then she walks out of the shop and slams the door. Wow, good for her. I would have just kept the watch. She gets enough in the future. Don't you worry about her keeping watches. OK. Well, Mr. Benjamin pretended she was invisible and it gave her an advantage. Sure, Doris is hurt by this incident, but she also feels empowered. If her race and gender mean the rules of the world are working against her, then she'll just have to make up her own.
10:13 Sarah Hagi? A couple of years later, around 1946, 16-year-old Doris is on the bus with a friend. They're on their way to Cleveland to go shopping, and Doris is bragging about the time she almost stole a watch from Mr. Benjamin. She tells her friend she could probably do it again if she wanted to. Her friend tells her she's crazy. It's too dangerous for black girls to be doing that. It's almost 20 years before the passage of the Civil Rights Act, but Doris is fearless, and she likes a challenge. The girls head into Woolworth's, and Doris has her friend wait at the malt counter. Doris smooths down her skirt, throws her shoulders back, and walks to the jewelry section. She makes conversation with the salesman as he shows her their watches
10:58 Sarah Hagi? and tells him she's a college student whose rich father sold some land. Then, when the salesman looks away, Doris slips a watch into her glove. She thanks him and leaves. Back at the malt counter, she shows her friend what she just swiped, and they burst out laughing. Then Doris returns to the jewelry counter and sweetly tells a man he forgot a watch. She's so good at pulling the wool over this man's eyes that he actually thanks her. Doris starts testing her ability every weekend, pulling the same trick again and again. She's so charming that the clerks can't see it's all an act. Often, they share a good laugh. In every other part of Doris's life, white men make her feel small.
11:43 Sarah Hagi? But when she enters these jewelry stores, she commands respect. It's the first place she feels powerful in a society that wants her to be powerless. Still, Doris has no interest in breaking the law and going to jail, so she never actually steals anything. It's enough to know that if she wanted to, she could.
12:04 Scaachi Koul? This is such an interesting power play, and it's so risky. But it is really fascinating that she returns everything. So it's not really about this stuff. It is really just about what this stuff represents.
12:13 Sarah Hagi? It is so deep. I don't know, there's just something so incredible about someone's mind working that way to feel power or agency over their lives.
12:22 Scaachi Koul? Mm-hmm.
12:22 Sarah Hagi? But soon, the economy in West Virginia tanks. There are strikes in the coal mines, and Doris's father gets laid off. When his severance check isn't enough to support the family, Doris feels like there is only one option: start stealing for real. Her first real theft is at the grocery store. She takes a bag of produce, pockets $3 someone left on the counter, and gives the money and food to her mom. She starts stealing cash from charity drives at school, which she also hands off to Clemmie. And even though Clemmie keeps giving her suspicious looks, she never asks questions. Eventually, the money helps them move away from her abusive dad for good,
13:06 Sarah Hagi? and they head to Cleveland. When Doris turns 18, she starts a fling with a local college guy and ends up pregnant. A few years after giving birth to their son, she has a daughter with the same man. Even though her children's dad stays in the picture, Doris is determined to provide for her kids on her own. She's still set on never needing to depend on a man. So for the time being, she lives with her mom and kids and gets a job at a nursing home. But the money isn't enough to afford the lifestyle Doris wants. So she starts planning her first real heist.
13:44 Sarah Hagi? It's 1956, and Doris is at her nursing home job with her friend, who we'll call Judy. Their shift has ended, and they're in the bathroom changing out of their work uniforms. Judy is a beautiful Polish woman, and even though she's poor, she looks wealthy when she fixes herself up. Doris knows Judy's been having trouble paying for her mom's medications and is desperate to make a quick buck, which makes her the perfect recruit for the heist Doris has cooked up. Doris zips Judy into a dress and hands her a cane she bought from Nieman Marcus. They sneak out of work and go to their local department store. Judy poses as a wealthy patient, and Doris pretends to be her nurse. This garners a lot of sympathy
14:29 Sarah Hagi? from the store clerk, who brings out tons of jewelry, way more than he should. When he's not looking, Doris slips a wedding band and a diamond ring into her pocket. Then she says Judy isn't feeling well, and they quickly leave. The successful heist gives Doris a rush like nothing else. She gives Judy $100 for playing her part, and then pawns the jewelry for $1,500, nearly $18,000 today.
14:58 Scaachi Koul? Uh-oh, Sarah. I'm getting Stockholm Syndrome.
15:02 Sarah Hagi? It's too cinematic to not root for her.
15:05 Scaachi Koul? I think I love her. Victimless crime. What do I gotta feel sorry for the Nieman Marcus? Please be serious.
15:11 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, they have insurance. She buys a purse, hat, shoes, and a wedding ring set that's even fancier than the one she stole. These new accessories aren't just for fun. They're an investment in running this con again. The fancy clothes will make it easier to blend in with high-end clientele. Over the next year, Doris runs her scheme all over Pennsylvania and Ohio. She develops a more sophisticated sleight-of-hand technique, basically a three-card Monte shuffle with rings. She puts on a ring, takes it off, puts on another ring, moves it to the other hand, picks up two more, puts one down. It's confusing and distracting, and that is the point. Doris also gets really savvy
15:55 Sarah Hagi? about the jewelry business as a whole. For example, she learns that jewelers aren't supposed to have more than five pieces out of the case at a time. If they do, and something gets lost or stolen, their insurance won't cover it. This makes businesses shy to report their missing items to the police. So Doris only steals if she can get the clerks to show her more than five items at a time. To avoid leaving fingerprints behind, she never sets her hands down on the display case.
16:24 Scaachi Koul? She is so smart. I wouldn't even think of that. I would be palming everything and leaving evidence all over the place.
16:32 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, she's so clever, especially because she's basically doing card tricks.
16:37 Scaachi Koul? With diamonds.
16:38 Sarah Hagi? It's so easy to confuse people that way. Doris is at the top of her game. At this point, she's stolen so much that she's able to buy her mom a house. Still, Doris is worried her luck will run out. Since her MO is to sell her stolen jewels at local pawn shops, it could create a pattern that will trace the thefts back to her. And every so often, one of her thefts gets reported in the newspaper, so she thinks it's only a matter of time until someone makes a connection. Doris realizes she needs help from someone more experienced with ties to the black market. That's when a mutual acquaintance tells Doris about a guy named Babe who might be able to help her out. Doris later says Babe looks a little like Russell Crowe.
17:23 Sarah Hagi? What do you think, Scaachi?
17:25 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I think he looks like if Ralph Cramden just got his face beat. He looks like a bag of ground meat rearranged to have an eye socket, a nose, and a mouth. It was rough. It was a rough look.
17:37 Sarah Hagi? He looks like a Simpsons character.
17:39 Scaachi Koul? No, he looks like Mr. Burns's son.
17:41 Sarah Hagi? Oh, he does. He does look like Mr. Burns's son, yeah.
17:44 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
17:44 Sarah Hagi? Well, he runs a nightclub called Babe's Baby Grand Bar. On Mondays, the club's closed to the public, so Babe can run what's basically a brothel for athletes. He's very well-connected and perfect for facilitating shady deals of any kind. Doris dresses herself up and pays a visit to Babe's club. She introduces herself and then shows him her latest good, a two-carat diamond ring with a sapphire halo that she stole from Montreal. Babe doesn't believe that she stole it. He says jewelers aren't that stupid. He says he wants to see her con in action. So they go to Philadelphia, where Babe knows a store that has expensive pieces.
18:25 Sarah Hagi? Babe watches as Doris works her magic and walks out with two rings totaling about $19,000.
18:34 Scaachi Koul? That's an amazing aphrodisiac. And if I was Babe, I would fall in love with Doris immediately.
18:39 Sarah Hagi? Well, Doris can tell that Babe's impressed. He agrees to partner with her, and they strike a deal. Babe will sell the jewels to his black market contacts and cut Doris a third of the profits. They leave Philadelphia in their getaway car and head back to Cleveland. Doris finally has everything she ever wanted. Money, good looks, freedom, and now the perfect partner in crime. She and Babe are riding high. But then, they hear a report on the radio about an interracial couple wanted for jewelry theft. They've been spotted.
19:15 Sarah Hagi? A few days after Doris's Bonnie and Clyde moment, she's back in Cleveland with her mom and kids. She's laying low while Babe holds on to their jewels and figures out their next move. The phone rings, and it's Babe. He tells her he's been talking to his connections, and apparently, the police have Doris's description down to a T. It's only a matter of time until they find her and arrest her, so he thinks it's best if she turns herself in. Doris thinks that's a crazy idea, but Babe says he's already worked out a deal with the judge and district attorney. Turning herself in is just a formality. Doris decides to trust him, and it turns out, he's as good as his word.
19:58 Sarah Hagi? When Doris arrives at the precinct, they fingerprint her, take her mugshot, and that's it. She's not questioned or punished at all. That's when she realizes. Judges, DAs, attorneys, the police, they're all in cahoots with criminals like Babe. Self-surrendering and posting bail is just the cost of doing business. Also very impressive that he managed to figure this out for her, I have to say. This is a story where the two main people in it are not idiots.
20:29 Scaachi Koul? This is a love story, Sarah.
20:32 Sarah Hagi? Well, Sachi, you've been shipping it.
20:35 Scaachi Koul? I have.
20:35 Sarah Hagi? And this near miss only draws Babe and Doris closer together. And it's not long before they begin a steamy affair. Babe's married, but his wife knows about Doris, and she's completely fine with the arrangement. It's a perfect dynamic for everyone. The wife gets domestic life and romance, while Doris gets business and sex. Between Doris's audaciousness and Babe's criminal know-how, they're an unstoppable team. Babe teaches Doris not to take anything too expensive. He also opens for her by calling stores ahead of time, pretending to be her lawyer or financial adviser. After a heist, Babe takes her loot and sells it to his connections,
21:18 Sarah Hagi? many of whom are doctors, lawyers, and judges. And these lawyer-and-judge connections make it real easy for Doris and Babe to avoid prosecution.
21:28 Scaachi Koul? That's so smart.
21:30 Sarah Hagi? It's kind of genius.
21:32 Scaachi Koul? This is one of the best low-grade scams we've ever, ever done.
21:37 Sarah Hagi? Well, around this time, Doris sends her young kids to live with their dad, which gives her the freedom to travel the country. Her first trip is with Babe to see the Rat Pack in Vegas. They fly first class and stay at the Sands Hotel. It's a far cry from her upbringing in coal-mining West Virginia. But now that Doris has gotten a taste of the high life, there's no going back.
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23:44 Sarah Hagi? In August 1965, Doris walks into a jewelry store in Pasadena and steals a $4,000 ring. She's 35 now and about eight years into her crime spree with Babe. Over the last few years, she's been spending a lot of time in L.A. Doris spends her time in L.A. smoking weed and robbing stores on Rodeo Drive. She usually stays at a motel near the airport, which she refers to as her crow's nest, because that's where she brings back her shiny objects. When she nabs something really nice, Babe flies across the country to see her, pick up the goods, and make love before he heads back east to sell her latest find.
24:24 Scaachi Koul? I don't see anything wrong with this, Sarah.
24:28 Scaachi Koul? I just don't see anything wrong with this arrangement, personally, professionally, or morally. I'm fine with it.
24:34 Sarah Hagi? Well, you know, life is good for her until one of her thefts from a shop in Pasadena gets covered in the press. At first, the papers thought Willie Mays's ex-wife, a woman named Marguerite Wendell Chapman, was a thief. According to reports, Doris has a habit of telling salespeople she's the wife of various famous athletes. But Doris claims she's mistaken for Marguerite because of plain old racism, since, you know, apparently all black women look the same.
25:05 Scaachi Koul? Listen, I know it's wrong to use racism for evil. But on the other hand...
25:13 Sarah Hagi? I mean, listen, if they can't be 100% sure...
25:15 Scaachi Koul? If they're not sure, why should you help them?
25:18 Sarah Hagi? Exactly. Naturally, Marguerite gets cleared, and soon enough, the cops come knocking on Doris's door. After she gets arrested and detained, she calls Babe, who sets her up with a lawyer, and posts bail. Doris has to stay in California until her hearing. But luckily, she gets off easy because the police don't have any evidence of her crime. And at this point, racial tensions are high. The city has just seen days of civil unrest after a black man was violently arrested for drunk driving. So they aren't eager to convict a black woman without any evidence. Doris gets assigned a prison number, but doesn't actually serve any time. Still, it is a setback.
26:02 Sarah Hagi? Now that she has a rap sheet and her face has been in the papers, she needs to lay low for a while. Here's one of her mugshots from this time.
26:11 Scaachi Koul? She is so hot, Sarah. It's nuts.
26:14 Sarah Hagi? She's so cute.
26:16 Scaachi Koul? She's wearing like a cute little dress with a little like cravat.
26:19 Sarah Hagi? She looks like Peggy Olson.
26:21 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, she looks really cute.
26:23 Sarah Hagi? I see why she was getting away with this. Well, Doris wants out of LA for good, so she moves back to Cleveland. Her kids are living with their dad full-time, and her mom has moved in with a new boyfriend. So Babe sets Doris up with a banker who grants her a home loan despite her suspicious income. She buys a gorgeous Tudor on a tree-lined street in Shaker Heights. Soon, Doris and Babe fall into their old routine. Doris steals jewels, Babe sells them, and they celebrate with sex. During this time, Doris gets arrested for stealing a $375 white twill coat. But during her trial, both Doris and her lawyer argue
27:04 Sarah Hagi? that Doris wouldn't be caught dead stealing a cloth coat. Unfortunately, the jury doesn't find that to be a convincing defense, and they find Doris guilty after only 40 minutes of deliberation.
27:18 Scaachi Koul? I don't know. I think it's a good argument, and I don't know that people were paying close enough attention to what a good argument it was. I'm gonna use it.
27:26 Sarah Hagi? But that also isn't the only drama unfolding, because Doris starts dating someone new, a drug dealer named Kenneth. Babe doesn't approve. Seemingly without irony, he claims Kenneth is bad news. This doesn't go over well with Doris, so she distances herself from Babe. But he's always trying to find ways to draw her back. Doris claims that he even got a tummy tuck for her. Apparently, he believed if he was at the weight he was when they first met, Doris would want him back. But that doesn't happen, because Babe gets a blood clot after the surgery, and not long after, he dies.
28:08 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, but they were lovers! This is devastating.
28:12 Sarah Hagi? I know, it is devastating. And at first, Doris tells herself it's no big deal. She'll find another white man to sell her stuff. But deep down, she's overwhelmed with grief. She realizes that she actually loved Babe all these years. He was her partner, protector, and friend. Without Babe in her corner, Doris is lost. She gives up crime for a while and tries to live a domestic life. She reconnects with her daughter, who's now 16, and starts seeing Kenneth almost every night. Doris lays low, spending her nights playing cards and smoking weed, but she's bored and miserable.
28:53 Sarah Hagi? She needs a change, so she does what lots of wealthy, bored, miserable women do. She goes to Europe to find herself.
29:04 Sarah Hagi? It's the fall of 1973, and Doris, now in her 40s, lands in Monaco for the first time. After she checks into her hotel, she stands on the balcony, breathing in the salty air. Then she falls asleep to Louis Armstrong's music playing from the patio below.
29:24 Sarah Hagi? The next morning, she puts on a cream-colored suit, throws on her shades, and hops in a taxi. She's headed to Cartier. When she arrives, Doris notices she's the only customer in the store, which isn't ideal. But she decides to browse anyway. She chats with the sales lady as a server sets down trays of jewels. Soon, Doris spots an opportunity. When the server and sales lady aren't looking, she slips the largest rock onto her finger. She doesn't realize it yet, but apparently the ring is worth more than $500,000. She quickly makes her exit and says she'll return tomorrow. Once Doris is outside,
30:07 Sarah Hagi? she looks down at the price tag and realizes she messed up. Remember how Babe taught her to never take anything too valuable? Well, now that she has, she's rattled and off her game. If only Babe were here to tell her what to do. Doris rushes back to her hotel, packs, and heads to the airport. But she forgets to change her outfit. Amateur mistake. When she gets to the airport, security is already waiting for her. They detain her in a holding room and say they're going to strip search her. Doris thinks fast. She says she's cold, so security lets her stay dressed. She hands them one article of clothing to search at a time, starting with her pantyhose.
30:51 Sarah Hagi? She hides the ring in a tissue while she takes them off and hands them to the guard, who shakes them, finds nothing, and hands them back. Then Doris slips the ring into her nylons as she hikes them back up. Even though they can't find the ring, Doris is still their prime suspect. So they don't let her go. Luckily for her, there's no female prison facility in Monte Carlo, so she's detained in a hotel, looking over the Mediterranean, with a guard posted outside.
31:22 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, this reminds me so much of the Mather sisters, those girls from Toronto who got caught up with that Nigerian guy who imprisoned them. And one of them, I believe, was kept imprisoned in an Italian convent. This feels like that.
31:37 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, that's basically where you live if you're studying abroad.
31:42 Scaachi Koul? Right.
31:43 Sarah Hagi? Somehow, Doris convinces the guard to give her nail clippers and a needle and thread from her bag. She uses the clippers to pry the diamond out of its setting and then throws the setting out her window and into the sea. Afterward, she sews the diamond into her garter belt. Doris is held in her room for nine months while authorities conduct their investigation. But they never find the ring.
32:09 Scaachi Koul? Nine months for one ring feels disproportionate, Sarah. And super illegal.
32:15 Sarah Hagi? Yes. I think it's like, they knew she was a thief, but also if you can't prove it and there's no ring, what are you gonna do?
32:21 Scaachi Koul? Mm-hmm.
32:21 Sarah Hagi? Eventually, the authorities convict Doris, even though they don't have the ring. She does a short stint behind bars, but it doesn't deter her. Because she still has the diamond. And as soon as she's free, she's going to use it.
32:39 Sarah Hagi? After leaving Monaco, Doris makes her way to Paris. But she needs to figure out a way to sell the diamond without Babe. So, according to her memoir, she calls Kenneth and asks him to go to Van Cleef and Arpels in New York and pretend that he has jewelry to sell. She knows Van Cleef won't buy anything from him, but they can refer him to someone who will. After Paris, Doris heads back to New York, where she reunites with Kenneth. She visits the buyer he found, who purchases the hard-won diamond for a tidy sum. Doris and Kenneth decide to stay in New York while she plans her next few heists. Her goal is to go back to Europe, and in less than a year, she does.
33:22 Sarah Hagi? Even with the wake of crime she left behind, she can't not indulge in an international vacation. Doris jets off to London, where she steals diamonds and emeralds from a luxury jewelry shop. Then she heads to Paris and nabbs a $55,000 Van Cleef watch. Her final stop is Rome, where she steals an ornate-yellow diamond ring from Bulgari. Doris claims that her total loot from this trip is worth about $1 million in today's money, and amazingly, she doesn't get caught. But authorities are on to her. Around this time, the Jeweler's Security Alliance puts out bulletins warning about a slick, well-dressed black woman who's stealing diamond rings.
34:07 Sarah Hagi? At some point, Interpol starts looking closer at her crimes, as does the FBI. Their file on her is allegedly six feet long. But Doris is just too good. Whenever she's suspected of theft, there's rarely anything to nab her on, because she's quick to dump the evidence. And no evidence means no crime. No one ever seems to catch Doris red-handed. But Doris is now wanted by law enforcement all over the world. They're poised and ready for her to make a mistake. And when it happens, there will be nowhere left for her to hide.
34:47 Sarah Hagi? While Doris is gallivanting around Europe, her mom Clemmie is relaxing at home when her phone rings. It's a detective and he's looking for Doris. He asks Clemmie where Doris is, and when she tells him she has no idea, she's telling the truth. Doris usually skips town without sharing details about where she's going or how long she'll be there. Clemmie is always worried sick. She's known her daughter was a thief for years, but she's turned a blind eye. Maybe it's because Doris has always used the money from her stolen goods to provide for her, or maybe she just loves her daughter so much she's in denial about her crimes. In any case, by this point, Clemmie is fed up. When Doris finally returns from her latest stealing spree,
35:32 Sarah Hagi? she lets Doris have it. Clemmie tells her daughter she won't let her keep living like this. She cries and begs Doris to live an honest life. She's not just worried about her well-being, she's worried about her soul. How's God gonna judge her when it's her time?
35:50 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, I've always said that I would do way more crime if my parents were dead because I just don't think I could do while my mom's alive.
35:56 Sarah Hagi? Having your mom say she's worried about your soul, that's like worse than any disappointment. I can't imagine my mom saying something worse.
36:04 Scaachi Koul? I'd have to wrap it up pretty fast after that.
36:07 Sarah Hagi? I'd be like, oh, well, I had a good go. Scam over. Well, Clemmie's desperate pleas do seem to work because Doris starts spending more time at home. She even starts going to church, and she promises she'll turn herself in eventually. But for now, Doris says she wants to stick around to take care of her mom. Kenneth starts coming around more often as well, barbecuing for Clemmie and Doris. They're acting like a nice, normal family, and it seems like Doris is on the straight and narrow. That's when Clemmie starts thinking, maybe her daughter can live a regular life. So on Doris's 50th birthday, Clemmie asks if she and Kenneth are ever gonna get married.
36:51 Sarah Hagi? But apparently, this is a big mistake. Doris and Clemmie get into a huge fight. Doris doesn't want to be held down by a man, and Clemmie should know this. When she wakes up the next morning, Doris is gone without a trace.
37:10 Sarah Hagi? After the fight with her mom, Doris runs away from home with no plan in mind. She just needs to get far, far away from the idea that she could ever be anyone's wife. Doris claims she got on the first flight out of the country, eventually making it to Zurich. When she lands, she tells a cab driver to take her to the shopping district, but the driver says a fine lady like her needs nightlife. And Doris figures, what the hell? She could blow off some steam. So she goes to a rooftop bar and orders a Cire Royale. It's her first-ever alcoholic drink. Her mom liked to drink when she was younger, and as a kid, Doris didn't like how alcohol made people sloppy. But on this night,
37:54 Sarah Hagi? Doris indulges in a few cocktails. They make her feel light and free and ready to hit up the shopping district. And according to her memoir, she strolls into Rolex and walks out with a watch, but she's so tipsy, she doesn't remember taking it.
38:11 Scaachi Koul? Oh, no, she's getting real sloppy, Sarah. It was such a good grift.
38:17 Sarah Hagi? I know. You know, it's not really so much sloppiness as it is she's so depressed. This is her only outlet. Next, she hops in a taxi and goes to a club. She grabs a drink and starts getting down on the dance floor. Eventually, it's time to leave. But when she goes to grab her stuff from coat check, there's five or six policemen waiting. Even though she didn't pay much attention to her Rolex theft, it turns out, they did. And I'll let Doris tell you what happened next from the documentary, "The Life and Crimes of Doris Payne."
38:50 Speaker 07 They come and got me and put me on the train to Geneva. I jumped off the train. It was funny too later because I looked so bad. I looked awful. You know, all kinds of thorns and what have you, scratches. But I got off that train. Through the cornfields and through everything.
39:11 Scaachi Koul? Genuinely impressive. I think legally, they should have to let her go if she jumps off of a train.
39:16 Sarah Hagi? I know. If the criminal gets away, like, that's on you.
39:20 Scaachi Koul? You gotta give it to them.
39:22 Sarah Hagi? Well, according to Doris, she has a lucky break and escapes. But when she returns to Cleveland, she's hit with a surprise. Her mom has late-stage cancer in both lungs. But they don't have much time to dwell on this life-changing news. Because soon after, an FBI agent shows up at Clemmie's house. Doris wants to stay in Cleveland to be with her mom, but it's too dangerous with the feds sniffing around. So she flees to Chicago, where allegedly, a friend hooks her up with a job scraping cocaine residue out of the sides of Coke bags. She sends the money from this gig to her mom.
40:01 Sarah Hagi? Doris later claims she was laying low during this time. But newspaper reports tell a different story. In 1982, Doris gets arrested for stealing a $30,000 ring. And while awaiting trial, she escapes again, this time from a hospital, after claiming to have stomach pains. Somehow, she convinced a guard to remove her leg irons.
40:26 Scaachi Koul? That's amazing. I don't know how she's getting away with it. It's incredible.
40:29 Sarah Hagi? She must be the most charming, amazing woman anyone's ever met. She has to be. Well, regardless of which version of events is true, we do know that during this time, Clemmie is getting sicker. And after a seven-year battle with cancer, she passes away. Doris is devastated. Ever since she was a little girl, she made it her mission to keep her mom safe. And in some weird way, the conning, shoplifting, and police dodging all helped Doris fulfill this goal. But now that Clemmie is gone, Doris is lost. So there's only one thing to do now. Go back abroad and pull off more heists.
41:13 Sarah Hagi? But Doris is about to find out that no amount of diamonds can stop bad news from coming.
41:26 Speaker 08 Hey, I'm Cassie DePecce, the host of Against the Odds from Audible Originals. In each episode, we share thrilling true stories of survival, putting you in the shoes of the people who lived to tell the tale. In our latest series, we track the story of Hugh Glass, the real-life revenant that inspired the 2015 film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. In 1823, Glass was brutally mauled by a grizzly bear in present-day South Dakota and left for dead. His survival depended on trekking through 350 miles of wilderness alone with grave injuries. But he was driven by his thirst for revenge. Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Against the Odds early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
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43:19 Sarah Hagi? It's around 1990 and Doris is getting a fraudulent passport with a new alias, Audrey Davis. Once the documentation is secured, Doris jets off to Tokyo and Athens where, like a phoenix rising from the ashes, she pulls off a bunch of heists. She spends the next year traveling the globe, living at the Astor Hotel in Athens, and vacationing in Cairo every couple of months. After all she's been through, she finally starts feeling like her old self again. But this feeling doesn't last long, because when Doris returns to the States, she learns that Kenneth, who she's been with off and on for the last 25 years, has stomach cancer.
44:03 Sarah Hagi? Doris pleads with God to save him, but a few months later, he dies. That is so sad. Yeah. This is a lot of loss for one person, I have to say. It's a lot of tragedy, yeah. Doris spirals, and while people generally mellow with age, she is completely out of control for the next 13 years. Throughout her 60s and 70s, she hits, quote, "every damn jewelry store in every damn state." What follows is a string of arrest warrants in states like New York, Connecticut, Texas, and Virginia. In 1991, she's nabbed at a mall in Holyoke, Massachusetts.
44:45 Sarah Hagi? While browsing the store's wares, the manager recognizes her from a flyer that says she's wanted for questioning. The cops print her rap sheet, and apparently, it's now 20 feet long. She has 20 different aliases, five social security numbers, and nine dates of birth. Doris gets released on bail, but then misses her sentencing because she's in jail for a totally different theft in a whole other state, one where she stole a ring and left a gumball ring in its place. Doris moves so fast, her own lawyer doesn't know about the arrest.
45:21 Scaachi Koul? She's a fascinating figure because she's like, whenever in grief, scams harder and worse than ever before.
45:29 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I feel like it's more than just wanting to scam. It's like her only way to cope at all.
45:35 Scaachi Koul? Mm-hmm.
45:37 Sarah Hagi? Well, throughout the 90s and 2000s, Doris gets caught and thrown in jail several times. Her longest prison stint is five years, but she usually gets released early. At one point, she only serves 10 months of a 12-year sentence because, according to Doris, she was a bad influence on the other inmates and was tempting them to follow in her footsteps. You can decide whether or not to trust Doris on that one.
46:04 Scaachi Koul? This is a story that sounds like it could be about me.
46:08 Sarah Hagi? Doris gets parole and starts living in halfway houses. And though she's constantly breaking the rules, no one can tell her what to do. Doris is unstoppable. But with new innovations in surveillance technology, she won't be able to stay out of prison for long.
46:30 Sarah Hagi? It's 2011, and Doris is sitting in a courtroom in San Diego. She's at her sentencing hearing for a ring theft at Macy's. And there's a camera crew along for the ride because someone is making a documentary all about Doris. At 80 years old, she now has white hair and deep lines on her face, but she still holds herself with poise. This time, her crime was caught on video. So in the end, the jury voted to convict. The prosecutor recommends five years in state prison due to Doris's relentless history. But the judge seems torn. After all, Doris is elderly. She's small and frail, and now she has breathing problems. It's hard to picture her robbing anyone,
47:15 Sarah Hagi? but her rap sheet tells a different story. A saleswoman takes a stand and makes a victim impact statement. She calls Doris a psychopath. In return, Doris's attorney makes a sympathetic plea to the judge. Doris has a family. She spent years caring for her sick mother. There's more to her than her criminal history. But the judge doesn't buy it. He sentences her to the maximum. Five years in prison without parole. In her memoir, Doris says that she's thrown into a women's prison, and the conditions are brutal. Her cellmate dies of a drug overdose right in front of her, and fights break out every night. Doris finds it impossible to drown out the noise
47:59 Sarah Hagi? of bodies smacking the floor. She's not sure she can survive this stint in prison. And it turns out, her health does take a turn. Doris starts suffering from intestinal problems and is in and out of the infirmary. Over the course of 18 months, she loses a shocking amount of weight. By the summer of 2013, she's just 80 pounds. So due to her medical issues, Doris doesn't have to serve the rest of her term. Doris thanks God and vows to never steal again. But ultimately, Doris doesn't have faith in anything but herself. A few months later, she walks into El Paso Jewelers and steals that $22,000 ring from Raju,
48:44 Sarah Hagi? our jeweler friend from the beginning of the episode. Doris just can't quit, because, truthfully, she doesn't want to.
48:54 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, she doesn't. This is completely pathological for her, and she loves doing it.
48:59 Sarah Hagi? It's the only thing she loves.
49:01 Scaachi Koul? It's the only thing she has and cares about.
49:04 Sarah Hagi? She just can't stop. And Doris's last reported theft was in 2017 for a bag of groceries from Walmart, which she stole when she was 86. When Doris reflects on her 60-year career as a jewel thief, she has no remorse. She stands by her actions and says it was all worth it. And maybe it was because she got a book deal. In 2019, she publishes her memoir titled Diamond Doris: The True Story of the World's Most Notorious Jewel Thief. Doris is still alive today at the rippled age of 94. And these days, she stays busy on social media posting Instagram reels.
49:46 Sarah Hagi? There's one of her dancing and another of her smoking a joint showcasing her fabulous husband-free life. Even though there will always be more jewels out there for the taking, it seems like Doris has finally gotten everything she always wanted.
50:05 Sarah Hagi? Okay, Sachi, you flat-out loved Doris.
50:11 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
50:12 Sarah Hagi? I'm not here to change your mind, but I am wondering what your favorite things were about her. And you do mention that there is just something so interesting about when she turns to stealing in times of darkness.
50:26 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, even in terms of her relationship with Babe, like as they get closer and as they have this more intense romantic and sexual and like work relationship, she's stealing more so that he can sell more because then he'll come see her because then he'll have sex with her and then he'll be able to pick up whatever and go sell it. And then when these people die, she's also in incredible grief and has a lot of feelings. And that's when she starts ripping people off again. It's kind of fascinating, like scam as conduit to feelings.
50:58 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's so interesting. Like for a lot of people, the scam is a means to an end. Doris is so full of life and energy and it fills so many parts of her life up. There are so many ways people seek thrills. And what is a better thrill than getting away with something? It must be such a rush for her to know that you're so good at something that you can keep leveling up and going harder and harder and finding new ways to do it.
51:26 Scaachi Koul? I would also say the timeline of when she is doing these scams and that she is a black woman in America is relevant. I mean, there is something kind of like delightfully rebellious about it. I'd certainly be far less tickled by this if it was a white man. I can say that with my trust. There's no need to write me an email later complaining that I'm delighted by this scam artist and I wouldn't be delighted if it was a white guy. There's a reason.
51:51 Sarah Hagi? There's a reason.
51:52 Scaachi Koul? And that's the reason. It is an interesting kind of defiance.
51:55 Sarah Hagi? It's very interesting to think like this was her form of getting agency. It's like, no one can tell me what to do. I'm never relying on anyone. And all her reasons and the depth of it gives her a very rich texture to me.
52:08 Scaachi Koul? I mean, the thing too is she was doomed to getting caught. I mean, as technology was getting faster and there were more cameras. I mean, she was, this was never gonna last long term. It's kind of amazing she did it for as long as she did.
52:20 Sarah Hagi? I know. I wonder like if there's a world where she's mentored someone.
52:26 Scaachi Koul? I guess we'll find out.
52:28 Sarah Hagi? Listen, here's the inspirational lesson from here. However you think society is bringing you down, use it. Use it to fool the people.
52:37 Scaachi Koul? Yes.
52:38 Sarah Hagi? Who are assuming things about you.
52:40 Scaachi Koul? Correct. If racism is gonna be used for evil, use it for your own evil.
52:44 Sarah Hagi? You know, my mom pretends to not speak English sometimes when she doesn't want to talk to people, so. And they buy it.
52:58 Scaachi Koul? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.
53:07 Sarah Hagi? This is Diamonds Are Girls Best Grift. I'm Sarah Haggie.
53:11 Scaachi Koul? And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . We use many sources in our research. A couple that were particularly helpful were The Life and Crimes of Doris Payne, directed by Kirk Marcelina and Matthew Pond, and Diamonds Doris, the true story of the world's most notorious jewel thief, written by Doris Payne and Zelda Lockhart.
53:33 Sarah Hagi? Liz Galalas wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sacha Cole and Sarah Haggy. Olivia Bryle is our story editor. Fact checking by Gabrielle Drole. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Frieson Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Foose. Janine Cornolo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julia McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enney and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louie and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
54:22 Speaker 10 Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
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