Greg James: Stop sleepwalking through life! Find your childlike self-belief

What did you love doing when you were 10 years old? Broadcaster Greg James reckons we all need to prioritise fun and silliness more, and thinking about your childhood passions is a great place to start. In this chat, Fearne and Greg talk about how bleak, boring, and anxiety-inducing being a responsible grown up can be sometimes, and why that means it’s vital to choose to laugh every day. Greg also explains why it’s important to stop and ask yourself if you really want to get married, have kids, or earn lots of money, or if you’re sleepwalking into someone else’s vision of a perfect life. Plus, why did 21 year old Greg think he had a chance with Fearne when he first arrived at Radio 1...? Greg’s book, All The Best For The Future, is out now. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Scott Mills https://pod.fo/e/28c18d Nick Grimshaw https://pod.fo/e/1eceb4 Annie Mac https://pod.fo/e/f5f5d Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To market, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that helps you let go and take life less seriously. Today, I'm chatting to Greg James.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  You want to get married? Society sort of says, "You must get married." And then it says, "You must have children." "You must, you must do this." "You must take it, you must do a job." "You must, you must do a serious job." And it's sort of looking at all those things and going, "Are you absolutely sure that you're doing all the things that you want to do?" And at the same time, reminding yourself of all the childhood passions that you had that make you you. Because I do sort of think that you at 10 is sort of the most pure you you can be.

• 1:08Fearne Cotton?

  Well, everyone, I'm fulfilling the "back to school at this time of year" cliche by feeling like shit. Of course, my kids have come home with like every germ known to man and I feel like I'm swallowing a golf ball when I talk. I actually felt quite poorly when I was recording this episode with Greg. But luckily, I know Greg well enough to have been able to feel comfortable and capable of hosting a podcast episode whilst feeling like shit. I'm really not very good at feeling bad. And it's always that moment when you have to learn some like good life lessons when you feel ill, don't you? Because if you're like me and you can't sit still for a minute and you need to be constantly doing, on the run and distracted, when you're ill, oh my God, it's all really confronting, isn't it?

• 1:53Fearne Cotton?

  You have to like think about things you don't want to. I don't like it, I'm gonna have a tantrum.

• 2:00Fearne Cotton?

  So today, I'm working from home, I'm gonna be laptop in bed vibes, just feeling shitty. But I know loads of you are too, there's all sorts of bugs going around. So if that is you, I'm with you, I hear you, I've got you. This is actually the perfect chat to listen to if you are feeling a bit crappy, because it's just a really lovely conversation, which hopefully you can hear, is between two great mates. I've known Greg for 17 years. And do you know what, I went away from this chat thinking, oh fuck, I could have asked him this, or forgot to reminisce about that. We didn't really do too much reminiscing. And we've had so many silly things happen, silly stories, really fun nights out, like

• 2:40Fearne Cotton?

  being shitfaced at gigs, and him coming to house parties at my house, and just loads of silly nonsense. And then obviously, all the crazy fun that we had at Radio One. I'm gonna think of some more stories and talk about them on Instagram, because it was just a crazy time. I think you're gonna really like this chat. Greg is, of course, the voice waking up so many of us in the mornings on the Radio One Breakfast Show. He also co-created the Tailenders Cricket Podcast, and the Fast and the Curious F1 Podcast. And he's just written his first non-fiction book, All the Best for the Future. And look, we talk about that book a lot, because it's full of stuff about childhood, and how when we're adults, you want to be taken really seriously. But when you're kids, you really

• 3:23Fearne Cotton?

  don't. And actually, we need to like, get some of that playfulness back in life. When we look at what he enjoyed doing as a kid, and how he's trying to emulate that now. We also talk about not sleepwalking through life, just sort of ticking things off the list of like, must get married, must have kids, must do a job that I don't want to do. That's a really interesting part of the conversation, for sure. And also, like, talking about just being an adult, and that sometimes it's really shit, but that is part of being a human, and just sort of accepting that. And also, a really big one, separating self-worth from achieving big goals. I like talking about that. Oh, and Barney the Dog, obviously.

• 4:06Speaker 03

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• 4:36Speaker 04

  Help, I sexted my boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson.

• 4:41Speaker 05

  I'm Jordan North.

• 4:42Speaker 04

  And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.

• 4:45Speaker 05

  William's the arbiter of etiquette.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help, I Sexted My Boss.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday.

• 4:59Speaker 05

  On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 5:02Speaker 04

  Just search Sexted.

• 5:03Speaker 05

  Be warned, it's a bit rude.

• 5:09Fearne Cotton?

  Right, let's crack on. Here's the show.

• 5:32Fearne Cotton?

  Shall we just do this before we actually record it?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  That's really, I'm so excited.

• 5:38Fearne Cotton?

  We do. There's no formal way to start this. We'll just begin talking.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  I normally start all interviews with a prayer.

• 5:45Fearne Cotton?

  Do you want to do a prayer?

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Um, no.

• 5:49Fearne Cotton?

  Not really.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  I don't believe in God. And I feel like it would be, it would be, okay, let's do a prayer.

• 5:55Fearne Cotton?

  An atheist prayer?

• 5:56Speaker 02

  I want to pray for all podcasters everywhere.

• 6:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  We are a dying breed. They're...

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Welcome to Happy Place.

• 6:09Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you, Greg.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  I'm so excited, I'm so excited to be here.

• 6:13Fearne Cotton?

  Hey, it's your, it's your publication day today, so first of all, massive congratulations. It feels a bit like a birthday and a wedding and all the things in one day, doesn't it?

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had a little friends and family gathering last night and it felt too overwhelming and I started panicking.

• 6:29Fearne Cotton?

  Did you?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:30Fearne Cotton?

  Is that your usual reaction to joy? Panic?

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Well, it was just too, it was actually too much. I actually felt a bit embarrassed.

• 6:36Fearne Cotton?

  The Jew?

• 6:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just too much. It was, because it felt a bit, well, I don't know. I felt... It felt indulgent, but it wasn't indulgent.

• 6:45Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  But naturally I was like, oh, thanks for coming, yuck.

• 6:48Fearne Cotton?

  Awkward.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  You all came here.

• 6:50Fearne Cotton?

  Very British of you.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's, it was really nice and I feel so, I just feel elated, honestly, I feel elated and liberated that this thing. That I made the thing I wanted to make. And that's such a, it's so, it's, you're so lucky if you do a creative job or any job really, but a job where you're making stuff. And you get to make the thing you wanted to, like exactly. And I look at that thing and I think, God, that's, that's, that's exactly what I hoped it would be like.

• 7:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's just come out of your head. And although this is the first day for everybody else to enjoy it, I think the publication day is a bit of a full stop. Because you've worked for so long.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:28Fearne Cotton?

  From, you know, the initial idea to the laborious sort of, you know, process of writing it and editing it. Today it's done and it's out there, no going back.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  No going back.

• 7:38Fearne Cotton?

  It's so exciting.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  And I don't take any of it back. I wouldn't want to. I really stand by it. It's like a real snapshot of what I believe and feel like who I am at this moment. And that's a really nice position to be in where I can just actually write that sort of thing. I feel very lucky that I get to do it, but it's so nice. And I hope it's really helpful. That's the main thing is I want it, I want people to read it and go, oh, that's an interesting way of looking at stuff. Or, yeah, I hadn't really thought of that. Or that's just funny, hopefully. Hopefully people find it funny mainly.

• 8:08Fearne Cotton?

  Because the, the sort of, the conception of the idea for you was looking at childhood and how as we turn into adults, we all become, well, most of us become very serious. And life is very serious and we have to think of things seriously. And we want to also be taken seriously. That becomes very important. People must take me seriously. And actually you're saying, wait, we need to claw back some of the fun and the carefree attitude. And so you kind of want people to look at that too.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that in terms of people wanting to be taken seriously. I think I want to be taken less seriously as I get older. I think maybe when you're battling. Jostling positioning, whatever job you try and get in your twenties, maybe early twenties, to make your mark and like, I wanna leave a mark on the world. That's the moment you're like, take me seriously as a grown up. But actually, that, I look back on that and go, oh, I didn't know what I was doing at all. I had no idea what that even meant. Whereas now I've got a much better perspective on, what am I trying to do? What am I trying to say? What do I want people to take from my radio shows or the things I write or the things I put online? What do I want? I wanna try and add, I wanna try and add something instead of maybe take something out of the world, I guess.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  I think that's, that was the change that I probably went through. Like a lot of people go through in their, in their early to mid thirties, maybe they're like, oh, maybe, maybe it's not what the world can do for me. It's what I could maybe try and do for the world and not in a grand, too much of a grandiose way. But I've got this platform of speaking to lots of people on the radio of like, oh, when I started, it was like, I must take this job, take the opportunity. Like, I'm amazing, I'm on Radio One. Whereas now it's more, I've got this amazing job where I can just try and make people laugh, make their morning better. And obviously I get a lot out of that. But um, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a funny one, that book. It's taken about like two years to properly coalesce.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  And I started by writing slightly silly chapters about how much I hate going to weddings abroad. Or, you know, things that, things that.

• 10:07Fearne Cotton?

  I just hate going to weddings.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just hate living in the house.

• 10:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but weddings are so long.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  They are long. And also you never get to see the people that you're going to the wedding of because they're busy and.

• 10:17Fearne Cotton?

  And sometimes people put you next to someone you don't know. I can't think of anything I'd rather not do.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:22Fearne Cotton?

  Than go to a wedding.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Well, this is it, it's the, it's the joy of, of your choice. You're allowed to just go, actually, I love you and I'm not going to a wedding. But I do love you and that's, that's true.

• 10:31Fearne Cotton?

  No, I tend to go and then just think, I don't want to be here.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Just slag them off under their breath.

• 10:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, correct.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Your dressing's beautiful. It's fucking boring.

• 10:39Fearne Cotton?

  They're just so long.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, the book started with that and a series of silly chapters about my thoughts on the world and growing up and marriage and kids and all the rest of it. And then I realised, I sat with it because I didn't quite have the proper sort of the narrative arc. And I wanted it to, I wanted them to all link somehow. And then I thought about a moment when I was 10, when my love of silly stuff really sort of took hold, which

• 11:03Fearne Cotton?

  Choco Brothers.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  When I went to the Choco Brothers. I went to the Choco Brothers.

• 11:07Fearne Cotton?

  They've not been mentioned on Happy Place before, which

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 11:09Fearne Cotton?

  seems absurd because they're very, they're happy content.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  They created the happy place. For me.

• 11:15Fearne Cotton?

  For you, sure.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  And for many, and for many people, you must have gone home from school and watched

• 11:18Fearne Cotton?

  Of course, of course, I love them.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  But that would have informed what you went on to do. Like you love, you are very fun and you love silly stuff.

• 11:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I do.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  That's why we became friends.

• 11:26Fearne Cotton?

  It's not exactly the same reference point as you, Choco Brothers.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  No, but you're not custard pies.

• 11:31Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  But you are really fun and like you like having a nice time.

• 11:35Fearne Cotton?

  I love having fun.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  And you made a career out of doing interesting, fun stuff.

• 11:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  And so the Choco Brothers, when I met them when I was 10 with my nan at Weymouth Pavilion. And I queued up for a photograph with them and they signed the photograph and said, to Gregory, full name, all the best for the future. And that was, I loved, that was my favourite thing. I met, I met my first famous people. And my nan, I remember my nan saying, that's a weird thing to say to a kid. All the best for the future. Because it is like the sort of thing you say to Anne from A Cow.

• 12:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  When you write a card, you're like, fuck off, man.

• 12:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Um, all the best for the future. And I thought, that's a great title, actually. And I so start the book when I, I'm aged 10, with my whole life in front of me, what happens? What happens to me next? And then I go through all the life stages and that's, that's what the book became. It was like a reminder of all the checkpoints you, you do go through, but just making sure that you want to do them all.

• 12:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Making sure that you want to. You wanna get married, if you want to, society sort of says, you must get married. And then it says, you must have children, you must, you must do this, you must take it, you must do a job, you must, you must do a serious job. And it's sort of looking at all those things and going, are you absolutely sure that you're doing all the things that you wanna do? And at the same time, reminding yourself of all the childhood passions that you had that make you you. Cause I do sort of think that you at ten is sort of the most pure you you can be.

• 13:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, without a doubt. And you, you know, you're right, you get, society sort of conditions you and knocks a lot of that out of you that, you know, you shouldn't. I think one of them is like prioritizing fun. We see it as so frivolous and like, I haven't got time for fun. I had like a huge portion of my thirties. I got very serious and I became very uptight. And I think because I felt so out of control in certain parts of my life, everything became like controlling. And I was micromanaging everything. And I was like, I mustn't have fun. Fun is risky. Fun is dangerous. If I have fun, something bad will happen. And in my twenties, I was very good at having fun.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:44Fearne Cotton?

  And I could still emulate fun at work, but I think in my private life, I was like, I don't have time for fun. I'm far too serious. And now, I like going back to what we were saying earlier, I wanted to be taken seriously. Cause I think I came from kids TV, where obviously you're not taken seriously. And then I was on Radio One, but I never felt like I was fully a DJ because I came from TV, so I had to prove myself. And I was doing Celebrity Juice, which was silliness. And it's like, I need to be. So I think I started Happy Place with a little bit of that energy, like I need to be taken seriously.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 14:15Fearne Cotton?

  And now I do not give a shit about that at all. I don't care if people take me seriously or not. I want to do exactly what you said a moment ago, hopefully leave people having, you know, listened to an episode, feeling. A bit less alone, a bit better about their day or their life or whatever.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:32Fearne Cotton?

  And whether they take me seriously or not, I couldn't give a toss, but I felt it was. But I think it was a coping mechanism and a safety thing. And actually now.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 14:41Fearne Cotton?

  I'd say in the last sort of few years, I really wanna have fun. And maybe that is because, you know, I'm a bit older than you, but you're getting to your forties and it's like, shit, you know, time is going quickly.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 14:53Fearne Cotton?

  I can't believe I'm forty four. What the hell? You know, I need to start really like, it's not in the future, it's today, it's now. But I need to find little bits of fun, little pockets of not taking it seriously. But I think as adults, we're not really told that. It's not really encouraged. Or people that are very, you know, I probably would have felt five, six years ago gone, oh, well, it's all right for them. They've got time to have fun. I'd be quite judgy about it. We can all find time to have more fun.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  That's so interesting that you started Happy Place and you felt like you were more serious than you are now.

• 15:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I felt, I felt a need for people to see me as like, oh, she knows things, she has a brain, she's read books, you know, which I've always done. But I didn't get to showcase that bit.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Fun people read books.

• 15:35Fearne Cotton?

  Fun people read books.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  I mean, you only become fun by reading books. Like you only know about things because you get to read.

• 15:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  I am completely with you on, I think I had a version of what you're talking about. And it's because you get, you can get transfixed on a certain thing. And I think I wanted to make my mark on Radio One. I wanted to be like, can I get the drive time show? Can I get the breakfast show? And actually lost, lost sight of why I got into it in the first place. Why did I go to my local hospital radio station when I was fourteen and just watched the old guys like putting the CDs away and doing the show and stuff? Why did I do it? Cause I loved radio and I just was interested in it. It was a passion of mine. And then, but that happens in life and I, that, that experience has helped me write this, which is you can just get swept along.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  And you lose focus on stuff and you lose the reason you're doing things, like you lose the, the reason why you might wanna have kids. That might be the most brilliant thing for you, but some people just go into it. They just sleepwalk into it and go, yeah, I'll just probably do that now.

• 16:36Fearne Cotton?

  I think most people do.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Do you actually wanna do that? And I think that was, that was a turning point for me, like it sounds like it was for you, where you just go, actually, I'm gonna return to who I really am, which is who I was as a kid, as a teenager. And when I was eighteen, I think I was most fearless with just going for radio, wanting to get onto Radio One, just, just because I, I just thought I could. But it wasn't like a blind ambition, it was just like, this is really fun, I'm just gonna fuck around.

• 17:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  And see if it happens. And it did happen. And now I feel much closer to who I was as a teenager and an eighteen year old than I ever have done.

• 17:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, how cool.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Really exciting. And that's, that's, that was the breakthrough. And I thought, well, I'm not special. That can happen to lots of different people. So hopefully that can be a reminder for, for others. It's like, do you, do the stuff that makes you, makes you happy. And you don't have to make it all into work either.

• 17:24Fearne Cotton?

  No, no. I mean, yeah, we've done that a hell of a lot. And, you know, it's a, it's a tricky one because you wanna remain enjoying it. But I think it's so interesting. Returning to that version of yourself, because I think a lot of us, I, I certainly, I speak for myself only, have sprinted at times so far away from that version of myself. And I, I think I made this discovery, it might have been five, six years ago, where my friend sent me a video of New Year's Eve, when I'm about, I don't know, nineteen, twenty, I've got a terrible haircut. I wanted to look like the John Frieda Twins. I ended up looking like Rod Stewart. It was so bad. And we're really shitfaced and we're filming ourselves and we are, and it was like on a video camera.

• 18:09Fearne Cotton?

  And we are hysterically laughing and being so silly. And I remember that moment and I was so carefree in it.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 18:16Fearne Cotton?

  And maybe five, six years ago, when I wasn't feeling so great, I was like, oh, where's she gone? Like, where's that version gone? And I'd spent so long running from her, like, oh my god, she's common, she's uneducated, she didn't go to university. And I was sprinting, you know, read more books, know more stuff, interview more, you know, more important people. So people don't see that version, keep her hidden. Hide her the fuck away. Don't let anyone look at the old version of me. And then I got to a point. I was like, yeah, but by doing that, I've lost all the good bits. I've lost the fun, the carefree, the like silliness, the, you know, the bit that likes making people laugh. That's all died a bit. So it's quite a tricky thing to then start to recover

• 18:57Fearne Cotton?

  that version of yourself because you've got to look at the bits that you don't like and that you're a bit embarrassed about. And I, you know, I learned a hell of a lot about you reading this book. We've known each other for, wait for it, eighteen years. I worked that out today.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:11Fearne Cotton?

  You started in two thousand and seven.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  I did.

• 19:12Fearne Cotton?

  And only for eighteen years. That is absurd. Absurd.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  It's a great long time, though.

• 19:17Fearne Cotton?

  It is, but there's still stuff I learned about you in this book, like that you love fire engines, didn't they, that? But also.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  I don't shout about that. It's not like, you know, if I'm trying to, if I'm twenty one, joining Radio One and trying to impress Fern Cotton, we're like, a couple of things about me. Love music, love radio, love fire engines. Like, that wasn't going to work, was it?

• 19:36Fearne Cotton?

  I find it endearing at this point now.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  I don't think you would have done that.

• 19:39Fearne Cotton?

  It might not have worked by then.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Because in a twenty one year old me was like, there's a chance here. There's a chance that I could get off of Fern Cotton.

• 19:46Fearne Cotton?

  Gregory.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Well, of course. No, I'm twenty one. I'm like, working at the same place that Fern Cotton's at. So obviously, I'm going to be like, trying to impress you.

• 19:54Fearne Cotton?

  Look, we were, I've been red.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Well, like a fire engine.

• 19:57Fearne Cotton?

  We, like a fire engine. It's your lucky day.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Like a lovely dentist.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  But look, but that's.

• 20:02Fearne Cotton?

  I am a menopause woman. We instantly established a brother or sister relationship, which.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, sadly.

• 20:08Fearne Cotton?

  Sadly. Um, yeah. But what the fuck was I even talking about?

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Well, you were, you were talking about returning to that, that former you. But what I would say about that.

• 20:18Fearne Cotton?

  No, I remember I was. Go on, carry on.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  What I would say about that is that you do need to, you do need to try stuff out. I think that's part of what your twenties and your thirties should be. And you're supposed to make horrible mistakes. You're supposed to regret decisions. You're supposed to look back in horror and go, what was I doing? I treated them so badly.

• 20:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  That's, that is all unfortunately part of it. But as long as you can be aware of that and go, okay, well, let me, let me pick those fun bits that I loved about me, my ambition or my fearlessness or whatever it might be, or just my pure love of. Going to a gig or doing a radio show or just listening to the radio. If you can, you can pick those best bits now that you're a bit older and a bit smarter. You can pick those best bits and go, all right, well, leave, leave all the awful stuff.

• 21:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  But pick the essence of you, which is like still bubbling away somewhere. Cause you've got, you've got to mess up, you've got to try stuff and you've got to fall in and out of love and break people's hearts and have your heart broken all the time. That's part of life, but the whole point is that you're, you can, with, with hindsight, you can cherry pick all the best bits, hopefully.

• 21:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly. And I think, I guess it's about not necessarily completely burying those bits of yourself or memories that you don't like. It's trying to find, it doesn't have to be comfort, but like a level of acceptance, like, yeah, I messed up. Or yeah, I was a bit stupid there or whatever it is, but not continuously berate yourself. It's, it's a fine line. One thing I didn't know about you was that your name isn't Greg James.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I know. You must have known that.

• 21:45Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Wow, there you go.

• 21:47Fearne Cotton?

  Didn't know.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:48Fearne Cotton?

  That's crazy.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  It's fun, isn't it?

• 21:50Fearne Cotton?

  And that, it is fun, but again, you know, you know, you tell the story about how, you know, the, the name Greg James just kind of, you were, all of a sudden you were on Radio One. It was like, okay, I'm called Greg James, this is my name now. But bits of, bits of your story like that, is that kind of like a bit icky to look back at? Like, oh my God, there's this bit people don't know about me?

• 22:09Speaker 02

  I thought it was. And then I started, I wrote the chapter about student radio. Like that I was trying to get a show on my student radio station and this guy called Big Dave, huge guy, Big Dove, invited me into the, into the radio station on freshers week and said, come and do a show, write, fill this form out, what's your show gonna be? And I thought, these are my people, these are the nerds, these are the radio nerds.

• 22:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  Like a bunch of virgins, this is great. These are, these are my people. I was like, I was the cool one out of that lot. And they're still my good mates now and I filled out the form and I remember it, Dave was there going. Yeah, maybe do a DJ name, because Greg Millwood is not, I, I don't think it's particularly, I don't think it's as good as Greg James. I think that's a great Radio One name.

• 22:56Fearne Cotton?

  It's so strong.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  I was always obsessed with Radio One, so it was like Scott Mills.

• 22:59Fearne Cotton?

  You could hear the eye dent as you were writing it down.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Radio One, Greg James, Scott Mills, Sarah Cox, Fern Cotton. It was like, it was much better than Greg Millwood. And of course, it would have been fine. I've totally overthought it.

• 23:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  But I think there was a bit of me that was like, I'm just gonna try a new thing out.

• 23:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  And that was me trying the ultimate new thing out. And I've been him, Greg James, more than I've been the other guy for ages. And it's kind of funny now, and I, I like it. And it's, um, I, I, there was a time when I was like, people must never know, this is my big secret. But if that's your big secret, you need some fucking better secrets.

• 23:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  I, I, I'm, I'm much happier to say, talking about it now.

• 23:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  And that's, um, that's it. It's really, it's really fun. I like having the delineation between the two.

• 23:41Fearne Cotton?

  Mmm.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  It's fun. It feels like I've been playing a, playing a role.

• 23:44Fearne Cotton?

  You know, like, it's your sort of Sasha Fierce.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  I am Sasha Fierce.

• 23:47Fearne Cotton?

  You are Sasha Fierce.

• 23:52Speaker 03

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• 24:22Speaker 06

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisy Adam. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yeah. A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Num, num, num, num, num. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 24:56Fearne Cotton?

  It's remarkable when you sort of read your story going from that moment of finding student radio, loving it, to then you being chosen to be a Radio 1 DJ. If you love radio, Radio 1 is the goal. Like, that's where you want to be. You know, I had a weird, you know, went off on different tangents and did TV first, but I always had Radio 1 in my sights.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 25:20Fearne Cotton?

  It's just the coolest place to work. And of course, it's so hard to get that gig. And there are thousands of other kids doing student radio, in your case, that want to be doing that. So, of course, you've got to be good, which naturally, you're brilliant at storytelling, you're, you know, you're articulate, you know, you know what you want to do. But I think the other part of it is you have to be obsessional. Would you agree?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's true. You have to love it, you have to absolutely know what the radio station's all about. And I was very lucky that I had just listened to it forever. And I just thought, I remember listening to it and thinking, I could do that at some point. I don't know how, but I felt like I could do that. I know, I sort of knew how I could fit in, in a weird way. Because I'd loved what it stood for, I loved the spirit of it. I loved music, I loved live music and just funny stuff and just things, just silly things. And it just felt like, I don't know, it just felt like a bunch of people I wanted to hang out with. That was the mad thing.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  And actually, in writing the book, I freaked out one day because I wrote a bit about how I took my radio, because I'm old, my actual hi-fi to university, and set that up first in my room, because I wanted my mates there. And that sounds lame, but I don't care. It is lame. No, it's not lame, it's cool. It's not cool, but it's cooler than Firehorns.

• 26:48Fearne Cotton?

  I love that we're just listening to your internal dialogue.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  This is a happy place where Greg James is having a conversation with himself about things. But the, I had that line-up with me, which you were on, but that daytime line-up at the time was Moyles, Joe Wiley, Colin Edith, Scott Mills, Zane Lowe. And then, three years later... I was on it. I was on that line up. That's mad. But I but I sort of thought, oh, I could, I think I might happen.

• 27:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Weirdly, weirdly, I just thought I could probably do that. I don't know how, but it could happen.

• 27:22Fearne Cotton?

  I love that. I I know that feeling. I love that feeling. And I think, again, it's a feeling that over time is harder to grab hold of. Because I had the same as a kid. I think, you know, perhaps we were lucky that we had maybe parents or I certainly had like drama and dance teachers around me. I went to like a real, you know, local dance school, not like a stage school. But everyone was really, you know, you can do it kind of attitude with everyone. And and my parents are pretty laid back. They're always like, yeah, you you want to do a thing, you you do the thing.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:53Fearne Cotton?

  Um, and and I I certainly had that, like, yeah, I could be on the TV. I could do it. And it's not, it's not a cockiness. I think it's a childlike perhaps naivety, but you really do believe, why not me? There's, you know, why, why other people? Why not me? And I think as you get older, I'm speaking for myself again, but I find that really hard these days to go, yeah, I could do that. I'll go, I could do that. And then I'll go, oh, yeah, but this that could be a tricky problem. And then that could, that there's a risk there. And I and then I've talked myself out of it. I didn't have any down talk before. It was just, I'm gonna do it. Do you has it got harder, do you think?

• 28:32Speaker 02

  It does get harder because of being a grown up. That's the whole point.

• 28:36Fearne Cotton?

  So fucking shit being a grown up sometimes.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  It can be. Yes, but life is horrible.

• 28:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Sometimes.

• 28:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  And there's inevitabilities of you're gonna have to do boring stuff.

• 28:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  You're gonna have to pay some bills. You're gonna have to do some days of work that you really hate. If you're lucky, you get to do a job that you kind of like or love. That's that's amazing if that's if that's the case. Your friends are gonna be horrible to you. Your heart is gonna be broken and you will die. And your favorite people will get ill and they will die. All of those things, I know that sounds bleak for a podcast called Happy Place, but you in order to in order to get to the fun and the joy, you have to process the fact that that is all gonna happen.

• 29:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  So take that as read. So the the only thing you can do to counteract that is try and find pockets of fun and enjoyment and laughter wherever you can.

• 29:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  I think that's the that's the hardest thing about being a grown up. If you're lucky enough to, you know, have a job and have a roof over your head, that's obviously really important. But if that's sorted, the hardest stuff you will face is having to deal with the fact that all this grown up stuff is actually has to happen, but you've got to try and carve out space for some fun.

• 29:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Along along the way.

• 29:45Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, our job can be helpful in terms of, you know, it does force you to do that sometimes. I can turn up to the studio and think, oh, I haven't got it in me. I'm tired. I don't feel great.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  That's what you said to me earlier.

• 29:54Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly. I can't be fucked at all. Um, but you do sometimes just turn off in a shit mood and then by the end of it, you're like, I feel absolutely brilliant. I've learned something new.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:04Fearne Cotton?

  I enjoyed the company that I had, you know, and you feel genuinely lucky. You're doing that every day, you know, and when I was at Radio One, it is a strange pressure that you can have all sorts going on in your personal life, but when you put that microphone fader up, you need to be jolly, you need to have some stories in the bag, you need to be there for the listener, whether they're having a good day or a crap day. It's a really, it's a really strange switch that you have to turn on. And you talk about a real specific moment in the book where you there was some family illness going on and you were dealing with that and it was really bloody stressful. But you do have to show up and be at work.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:43Fearne Cotton?

  Put that microphone up and and you're on.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  That's the hardest thing about being a grown up is you have to show up. You have to, you have to be there with your kids or your partner or your job. No matter what's going on, you still, you have to keep going. And that's the thing that you've just got to try your very, very best to do. Because the other, the alternative is, what, giving up?

• 31:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  That's just not the option.

• 31:02Fearne Cotton?

  But I guess like with your partner or kids, you can be a bit ratty and because you know, you're going to be loved. Whereas on the radio.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 31:09Fearne Cotton?

  You can't be.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  I guess I've I've thought long and hard about that as well. And really, the thing I think that that links everybody is that we all want to be together. And then I I sort of think if I wake up and I'm feeling awful and it's five o'clock and I'm stressed and I've had a row or my dad's poorly, which has happened a lot in my life. I just think, well, let's go and hang out with some people. And that tends to, naturally, that's my reaction to anything anyway, which is I'm feeling sad. I feel like I'm spiraling or I'm having a panic attack or something. Let's go and hang out with some people. So I'd always call a friend or I'd always speak to Bella or

• 31:52Speaker 02

  in my case, go on the radio. And actually, that's an amazingly fortunate position where I turn up to that show. I can sort of put on my Greg James mask,

• 32:05Speaker 02

  which is even more handsome than this one. It just slots slots over slots over this one. And and go, right, who wants to laugh? And everyone wants to have a laugh. And so actually, that completely takes me out of myself, takes me out of reality for a little bit. And I forget about all the troubles because people just want to have a nice time. They want to have a laugh. They want to be united. No matter what their belief system is, what their politics is, just they want to have a nice time. And I can help if I can help facilitate that and be the ringleader, that brings me a lot of joy. And I genuinely wouldn't be still doing that show if I didn't get that out of it.

• 32:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  It's one of those jobs that is a massive sort of privilege to do. Well paid, yes. But I would not do it if I didn't want to do it.

• 32:52Fearne Cotton?

  I don't think you can. I don't think you can fake that gig.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  You can't pretend to want to do that breakfast show.

• 32:57Fearne Cotton?

  You can't.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  And seven years, I would have been found out. I think someone would have gone, is that's that's an act.

• 33:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  You you actually cannot pretend.

• 33:06Fearne Cotton?

  You can't for three, three hours. It's too tiring. You'd be exhausted.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  But you also just have to be in it. And I'm totally in that world. And I love, I really, really love the Radio One listeners. I think they're so funny. And we've just got this lovely, like, that relationship has been built over for a lot of them, more than 10, like, as you said, 18 years ago, I started there. So there will be a few people still listening then, but there'll be so many new listeners. But like, over numbers of years, you just build up that sort of rapport. And they get some of the in-jokes and they know bits about my life. And I know the listeners and sort of you meet them at various things. And it just, it's a really amazing gang. And I love being, not even in the centre it really, but just I like facilitating it and being like, you've got a funny story. Come and make everyone

• 33:55Speaker 02

  laugh. I think that's such a fun, that's such a fun role that I found for myself, which is not like, I'm the funniest person here. Listen to how funny I am. Listen to my show. It's more like. I mean, yes, I am funny, but here are some even funnier stories, like silly bits that have come up. Or how about this meme, or how about this this pop star who fell over on stage, or whatever it might be. I love being the ringleader of stupid stuff.

• 34:20Fearne Cotton?

  It is, there's no job like it. It's so brilliantly weird and, you know, I I felt very. I felt similar, you know, when I was at Radio One, you you do have this wonderful rapport. I've taken some to Radio Two because old, but it is it is so intimate. You know, you're in people's cars, in their workplace, they, like we've said, they could be going through anything. And you're there alongside them constantly, but alongside that amazing privilege. And that, you know, it's exhilarating, it's alive, you know, you're reacting to whatever's going on in the world, in the studio, in the listeners' lives. There is an immense amount of pressure to not go wrong.

• 35:05Fearne Cotton?

  And we're humans, we're not robots and, you know, the propensity to mess up, you're on the cusp of it constantly. Saying the wrong thing, stuttering, swearing, farting, being clumsy, like it's, that's terrifying.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  It is, yeah, but I do also think there's a sickness that I quite like that.

• 35:26Fearne Cotton?

  Do you? I used to and I don't now.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Do you not? I still love that it can all go tits up, and I don't know what that is.

• 35:34Fearne Cotton?

  But tits up is fun, I agree. I love it when things, but but the, exactly, the. The moment where you say something that you can't come back from terrifies me. And, you know, you're a good person, I'm a good person, we don't want to upset anyone, it's a given that we don't want to say the wrong thing. But of course, you know, if you're at the pub with your mates or whatever, I know it's not the same, but, you know, you you might say something, you think, oh, I've really upset my. I didn't mean to piss them off there, I just said it was a bit clumsy how that came out or whatever. That is career ending stuff and that's what has stopped me from wanting to do live TV or radio. I I'm not in the place where I'd want to do it at the moment.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  TV is an interesting one. I I was doing a TV thing the other day, The Grand Designs podcast with Kevin MacLeod. But they had a, I was amazed when we were recording it, they had a lawyer, listening to everything we were saying.

• 36:27Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Pre-recorded, not going out for like a two weeks. Uh, what's that, what's that lady doing over there? Keeps sort of interrupting and going, can you just retake that? And they're like, oh, that's the lawyer. She's sitting here listening to every word. I mean, interesting that we don't have that on live radio.

• 36:42Fearne Cotton?

  When you're live.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  And there's no script, there's no, we're just, we're just saying stuff.

• 36:47Fearne Cotton?

  Speaking.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  And the callers are live and the guests are there and you're, it kind of, it's amazing, I think, but that's also what makes radio so good.

• 36:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  That's what makes it must-listen, because there's so much shit you can listen to all the time. You could be going to work and, you know, watch a Marvel film on your phone, which was, it cost $200 million to make. And yet people are still wanting to switch on to the radio and that's, so it's partly it's that, I think, that it's live and dangerous. But yeah, I mean, you are, that is exhilarating. There was a guy who, there was a guy who played sex noises down the phone to me, uh, when we were trying to do a feature.

• 37:26Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Couple of years ago and that cancelled the feature.

• 37:28Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  So I said, hello Lewis, and he played like the thing that goes, uh, down the phone, oh for fuck's sake.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Um, there was, yeah, so you do, you do get certain bits like that.

• 37:41Fearne Cotton?

  It's so good.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  But I just, I don't know, I guess I had, it's the same reason I don't swear. I swear loads in real life. As, as do you.

• 37:48Fearne Cotton?

  As do I.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Potty mouth.

• 37:50Fearne Cotton?

  But you could just turn that, turn it off?

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, you do sort of. I don't know what that is. Maybe it's professionalism.

• 37:56Fearne Cotton?

  It could be.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  But, but yeah, it is, it is stressful a bit that way. But I, I think the, the thing that I would never moan about, although this might now sound like a moan. Is that it is, that sort of job, the job of the breakfast show is, is all-consuming and. I think about it all day, every day. And that's what you have to do. And that is not, that is not a moan, but that is what it takes to make sure it's good every day. And that was always my aim was to go, I just need, this needs to be good every day. I can't sort of, I can't roll up hungover. Like, cause it's just me and the listeners and it'll be obvious. There's no sidekick to sort of help me out.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  And I guess it does, it takes a toll on your friendships a bit because you're sort of bound to be at home, winding down or asleep or preparing for a thing. Um, and you're, and my marriage actually, cause I remember when I got married to Bella, I said, so obviously this is my dream. I've got to do my dream job. We just got married and I was like, it'll be a couple of years and then it's seven years. Seven years, like, uh, you know, I'm ne- I'm nearly about to die of old age.

• 39:06Fearne Cotton?

  That's hilarious.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  And I'm still doing it. But, um, you know, I miss sitting up with her and chatting and not being stressed or thinking about what questions I'm going to ask The Rock tomorrow.

• 39:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  And also finding some animal news and preparing for unpopular opinion, which are all great problems to have. But those sorts of jobs, because they're every day, it's quite, it's pretty unique, I think, in the media landscape where you're doing this mad live thing every single morning and it's got the biggest stars in the world and a big spotlight on you and all that kind of stuff. I realise the sort of the weight of that, so I do take it really seriously. But inevitably things in my real life do fall by the wayside. It's kind of like amazed that I managed to be able to do that, that write that book because I carved out proper time. But really, I wrote a load of stuff about, yeah, I probably do too much work.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  I should prioritise my friends while writing a book on my weekends and my holidays while not seeing my friends. So there's a huge irony alarm going off, but yeah, it's hard.

• 40:09Fearne Cotton?

  You know, cause I've thought about this a lot. Do you mind? Being a bit of a workaholic, I don't anymore. I I think that it gets a bad press being a workaholic. You know, people tell you constantly, you should like relax more or whatever. I really, really like working.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:24Fearne Cotton?

  I love it and I'm constantly, if I get anywhere near, oh, I've sort of plateaued a bit there. I'm just letting myself, never coast, but I'm like, I'm quite comfy. I know what I'm doing. I think this is not okay. This is not good enough. You need a new challenge. You need to be a bit more sort of worried and scared about what you're doing. And I'll think of something else to scare the shit out of me.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:44Fearne Cotton?

  And I love it. I don't care that I'm a bit of a workaholic. I'll always make time for my kids.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:49Fearne Cotton?

  Obviously, I wanna be a present mum and have social life and all that stuff, but I love working.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  But it's a pa- it's the passion of the thing that you like, probably, like making the thing. It's not, um.

• 41:02Fearne Cotton?

  I like all of it. I'm a bit with, I I like getting up and doing emails straight away. Like, I kinda like all of it.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Do I agree with that? Sort of. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm a radioaholic. I love, I love, I'm, I am addicted to being on the radio. I think it's, I feel very free and joyful and my full self and I feel able to express myself. And that is such a privilege to be able to just open a microphone and just say a fucking mad thing or do a stupid accent or whatever it is. Not an offensive accent, by the way.

• 41:30Fearne Cotton?

  Never.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  A silly accent. Make me become a pop star, for example.

• 41:34Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Um.

• 41:36Fearne Cotton?

  Does that worry then about what comes after the breakfast show?

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Sort of, sort of, but I've stopped myself from thinking about it. It did used to. I I think two years in to the breakfast show, I thought, God, how, now what? Because I think there was a part of the bit of time where I went, all right, I've done that now. But I hadn't, I didn't even scratch the surface. I had two years, three years, I hadn't even scratched the surface and the pandemic turned up and it reframed the show. I got loads better at doing it. I understood the listeners way more. I understood radio to this new level. It's like, oh, my God, this is. I knew it was amazing, but I didn't realise quite what it can do to people's days and like be a lifeline, be a source of companionship and all that stuff. So I think I'm a workaholic in the sense that I get a lot of joy from my work.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  But I would happily sit on my arse all day for a bit, I think.

• 42:27Fearne Cotton?

  Would you?

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. I'm quite good on holiday now.

• 42:31Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Like, if I've got two weeks off, you're not hearing from me. I'm dead.

• 42:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, really.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  But I, but I know what you mean. I get the itch and I go. But that does give me a lot of stuff. It gives me a lot of joy and I love connecting to people and stuff. So I do, I do understand what you mean in terms of it's, um, it's a lovely job to have, isn't it? And you think, well, what else could I do? But that's just your curiosity, I think. That is quite childlike in its, in a sense.

• 42:57Fearne Cotton?

  Definitely.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Just to go, what else is there?

• 42:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm constantly like, what else, what else?

• 43:01Speaker 02

  But what a nice state to be in. I think that's a really nice state to exist in.

• 43:04Fearne Cotton?

  I think I probably worried about it disproportionately because sometimes I think for women, it's like, you should be at home more or you should, you know? And there's that kind of pressure and, you know, it's always sort of a juggle and you're always knackered. But one that I love, I really love.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  There's a, just on that, I think there's a danger, there's a, there's a balance there between loving work and being a workaholic. But actually then, that, that phrase of do a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life is not actually true because you.

• 43:34Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's a load of shit.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  You are working.

• 43:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  And you, you have to rea-, as long as you realise you're working and that you also need to switch off and have a life. And your do-, your job doesn't become, your dog doesn't become you. Your dog doesn't become you. My dog has become me. My dog has become me. I've become my dog. But your job isn't you. You are not your job. I'm not the Radio One Breakfast Show host in my life. That's not, I mean, that is a thing that I do. But to my wife and to my friends, I want to be Greg and I want to be a really good friend and a great brother. And I want to be a really good son. And those things, as long as those things are in balance, then go to work and be fully in it. I think I totally agree with that.

• 44:15Fearne Cotton?

  Also, I, I guess it's important to distinguish the love of the job versus if I become the Radio One Breakfast Show DJ, that must mean something. I must then be an okay human. Like, I'm, I'm doing well. Like, as long as it's not fully supporting your self-esteem. Because I think, you know, I'm certainly not in that period of my life now. But back when I was maybe in my twenties, I certainly thought if I reach certain levels of this career or there are certain accolades, you know, people will see me differently and then maybe I'll like myself more. And none of that happens. Like, it's the most obvious end to a story that that is rubbish. And actually, that stuff has to be cultivated from.

• 44:57Fearne Cotton?

  Acceptance and looking at yourself and growth and learning. And then you can actually maybe enjoy the job more and you can still have big goals, big challenges you want to set yourself, but you're doing it for you, not for the, you know, creating this framework that holds up all of your confidence in one place.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Well, I thought that I would be complete at one point in my life if I got the Radio and Breakfast Show. I thought that would be it. I thought that would be job done.

• 45:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  I fucking smashed it. I'll be, and I'll finally reach happiness, finally. And that was completely wrong and obviously meant that at that time, then I should not have got it. And I didn't because obviously lots of smarter people than me went, no, not him. He's nowhere near ready. That's, that's not what's going on. But when I, when I separated my self-worth and my self-esteem from getting the big gig that I always thought would be really fun to do, turns out it is really fun to do. And it meant, in the nicest possible way, it meant less because I didn't, if I hadn't have got the Breakfast Show when I got it, I wouldn't have died. But I got it and I was like, yeah, I'll give that a go. That'd be really fun. I'm really up for that. But it didn't mean that my life was complete

• 46:14Speaker 02

  and that I was finally, I'd finally arrived. It wasn't that at all. I'd, I'd sort of arrived at myself a few years before that, which was just to say, I'm really enjoying my stuff here. I've got some really lovely friends. I really like my family. We're, I'm, you know, I've got, I had a really good girlfriend at the time. I was like, just, this is, what a nice time I'm having. And I've got enough money to go on nice holidays and go out and not worry about buying lunch and all that kind of stuff. And I thought anything from this point onwards is a bonus. And I've had that attitude really since I started Breakfast, which was anything that happens from here is a bonus. And I do genuinely believe that. And it's, and it feels really liberating to say.

• 46:54Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you talk about your suspicions about the concept of happiness, which I thought was really interesting.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:00Fearne Cotton?

  It's no coincidence. That I chose the name Happy Place for the work that I'm doing, because it's loaded. You know, it's something that we see as a futuristic, you know, something that's attainable only in the future.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:15Fearne Cotton?

  I'll be happy when I get the job, I get the partner, I get divorced, whatever the thing is, it's in the future. And actually, and most of us are living like that really subconsciously all the time, even though I know all this stuff and I talk about this stuff all the time. I still slip into it constantly. Oh, like next week when I've got that book edit done and then I'll be able to be happy. And it's such nonsense, but we constantly live in that cycle of believing it's coming. It's so what, what are your thoughts on happiness? Why are you suspicious of it as a concept?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Well, I, I actually thought, I was thinking about you a lot during that bit of the book, because the word happy is tricky. It's very tricky because it, it isn't necessarily a destination and it's certainly not a destination you can sit at for long. So we're, I think we're sort of conditioned that happy is the default when we're kids. They're like, just do this and you'll be happy. Like, keep smiling, be happy. And that comes and goes. And it's supposed, I think it's supposed to.

• 48:13Fearne Cotton?

  Of course.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  You're supposed to feel happy every now and then. In a day, you can feel 10 different emotions.

• 48:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  And you can feel happy at nine AM, sad at midday, happy again at three, sad when you go to bed.

• 48:24Fearne Cotton?

  Sometimes I do that all in like a minute.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's okay.

• 48:28Fearne Cotton?

  Ever changing.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  During this podcast.

• 48:30Fearne Cotton?

  Correct.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  It's the real, all the emotions. Boredom, despair, intolerance.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, rashes have appeared.

• 48:43Fearne Cotton?

  All sorts.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  But I think that's the thing that I wanted to try and hammer home, which was that, as you said, that happiness is not a destination. But there are lots of, life doesn't just go, I do this and this and this and this and I'll be happy. Which is why the, the sort of, the retirement thing I've always found really interesting, even when I wasn't doing a fun job. I always questioned like the idea of retiring, like keep working, keep working, keep working, keep working, keep working, keep, keep working, keep going. You're 70, now you can enjoy your life.

• 49:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, there's some sprightly seventy year olds, my parents are two of them. But not quite as active as you maybe were when you were thirty or forty. So you've got to try and, if you can, try and do some of life.

• 49:27Fearne Cotton?

  Now.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Now.

• 49:28Fearne Cotton?

  Today.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Also, you don't know if you're gonna get to seventy and all that kind of stuff.

• 49:32Fearne Cotton?

  You've got to do it now.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  So really, I I think contentment is better. And I feel content more than I feel extraordinarily happy. You have moments of elation and happiness. Much like you have moments of sadness, but trying to chase the happy thing, I find quite um quite difficult. Because it implies that if you don't reach that, you've failed.

• 49:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Basically.

• 49:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  And the default, I don't think is everything's gonna be fine. I think, I don't mean it to sound depressing, but the default should be, yeah. And if you get above the line, it's great. And if you're down below, you haven't gone too far down below and you're not sort of on the floor, you just go, that was a bad. That was a bad day. What are the things that I can do to make myself feel better? Okay, I'm gonna go for a run. Or I'm gonna go and see my mate.

• 50:18Fearne Cotton?

  Well, because it is all the simple stuff, isn't it? And it's such a fucking cliche, but it is true that, you know, we we do pin happiness on what we see. And our culture has changed so greatly, even in the last ten years, as to what we're seeing and how we're seeing it. So we're so much more exposed to people who are living extraordinary lives. And therefore, we assume, oh. The mark is now higher than I thought it was. I've got to do this to be happy. I've got to go on. The swanky five star holiday where you're in the Maldives and you've got a floating plate of fruit in front of you. What I I.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:51Fearne Cotton?

  But actually, it's all gonna come from what you've just said there. Like, what makes you feel content or okay? Or just like, your baseline is just, yeah, I'm doing all right. I've been for a run, I've checked in with a friend, I've eaten a nice meal. It's all that stuff.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, look, speaking from a place of. Of of earning good money and having a good job, it would be disingenuous to say that having some money doesn't improve your life because absolutely a level of of money means that you can live okay, feed yourself, house yourself, all those things. I totally get that and I would never be the guy preaching from, you know, my position. But it's not necessarily, it's not about the grand gestures in life that you get your happiness from, I don't think. And I I had a realisation when writing about my mum and when we used to, we used to do a long journey to school. There was a period of about two or three years when we lived

• 51:51Speaker 02

  miles away from, I basically couldn't move house, but my dad had to move schools because he would teach her. And so he was, the school was miles away from the house and we couldn't, it was an hour and a half commute. But those years I look back on so fondly because I was with my mum for ninety minutes to school, ninety minutes on the way back. And we would just chat, we would listen to the radio, listen to music. And I remember every single day she would put some fruit gums in the glove box from, she was a teacher as well, from her school tuck shop in the glove box. And I would open them and have them on the way home every single day. And I remember that just as vividly. Well, actually, I remember that way more than all the presents I got at Christmas, all the presents I got at birthday, all the holidays that we went on. I remember that more. So I think there's a, there's a,

• 52:36Speaker 02

  we're skewed from what we see and what we hear about people's mad celebrity shiny lives, but really there's a real beauty in the mundane and the ordinary and just the run of the mill interactions with people that we tend to forget about because we're chasing the big car, the big job, the bigger house, the nicer clothes, the new games console, whatever it might be. And obviously those things have their place, if that's your thing. But I really do think that we're missing a trick with the human connection thing, which is actually the most joy you can get sometimes from your day is not treating yourself to a new pair of shoes or a handbag or whatever. But that wasn't pointed at you. Lovely shoes, by the way.

• 53:21Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, daddy does.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  But actually, those interactions, going for a glass of wine with your mate, or calling them up and just having a gossip and talking about your debauched night the other night, or the horrible boy that you've slept with, or whatever it might be, those are, those are the bits that keep us ticking over as humans, more than ridiculous amounts of money and showing off and stuff.

• 53:45Speaker 03

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• 54:16Speaker 04

  Help I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson.

• 54:20Speaker 05

  I'm Jordan North.

• 54:21Speaker 04

  And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.

• 54:25Speaker 05

  William's the arbiter of etiquette.

• 54:26Speaker 04

  And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.

• 54:31Speaker 05

  So if you want laugh-out-loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss.

• 54:37Speaker 04

  Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday.

• 54:39Speaker 05

  On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  Just search Sexed It.

• 54:43Speaker 05

  Be warned, it's a bit rude.

• 54:48Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, my happiest moment in the week at the moment is Tuesday night, watching Bake Off with my kids.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 54:54Fearne Cotton?

  I am so happy.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:56Fearne Cotton?

  Just sat there. I always have to get a snack because it makes you super hungry watching Bake Off. We're all, you know, putting our own little lines of commentary together for everything. So like, I, that is it. That is the happiest bit of my week. And I love it. I look forward to it and I enjoy every minute of it. I mean, it seems like... Writing the book has also given you an insight into your own mental health experiences, whether they were yours or people that you are related to, that perhaps there wasn't the wording for it when we were growing up, you know, you say when you were a kid, you'd be in class feeling a bit funny and like the room was all going a bit fizzy. And you would now define that as a panic attack.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I completely forgot about that until I started writing about it. I remember I was in Mr Penny's history class. And I just, I zoned out, but everything just became really big and zoomed in and everything was sort of pulsing and my ears were going

• 55:50Speaker 02

  and I just felt like, I don't know what was going on, but I was just a scared, lost 12 year old, 13 year old, however old I was, and I just thought I was a freak and didn't tell anyone. Obviously, because that would mean, I don't know, what was happening to me?

• 56:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Am I, am I weird? But obviously not. And I guess it was a panic attack or some sort of anxiety attack or something. Yeah, there was, the language wasn't around and there was, no one, there was no one really to talk to about that.

• 56:22Fearne Cotton?

  And do you ever get them now?

• 56:24Speaker 02

  I haven't had them for a long time. I I used to get really nervous before any big interview with a guest. But that seems to have stopped now. I think it's just by doing them and by realising you don't die.

• 56:44Fearne Cotton?

  And that they're just people.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  And it's just people and, you know, it's just people trying to flog their shit movie.

• 56:50Fearne Cotton?

  Invariably.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Or people trying to flog their shit book.

• 56:57Fearne Cotton?

  Case in point.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  It's not shit.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  It's the best book in the world. I haven't had those sorts of things for a long time. I no, I'm very, very lucky with my brain and Bella reminds me this a lot of the time. She's like, I can't believe how mentally stable you are. I'm like, yeah, considering. The job I do and the things that I, you know, have to have to do and.

• 57:21Fearne Cotton?

  And your dad's mental health has not been.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  My dad, yeah, so that we didn't have the language for that. My my dad's brain has been a puzzle for him, I guess, his whole life. But he wouldn't have really known what was going on. And it was actually when he had to step back from teaching when he was fifty. Because of ill health and depression, but he had a heart problem and still has huge heart problems. And actually, he's got to have surgery again soon, which is worrying, very worrying. But um, yeah, I mean, that's a whole, that's a whole thing that's been present in my in my life. So those are the things you have to, you know, you have to start to go through your life and do your stuff without going, oh, my god, my dad, my dad, my dad, my dad. But, yeah, he had, he has, he had huge problems with depression and still does.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  It's it comes and goes in waves, I think, and um, just the thing is now we talk about it. And we have great conversations about it. And he okayed everything that I put in the book about it, because I think it will help lots of people. And it will help maybe break, break open the barriers if you've got a friend or a family member or a brother, sister, mum, dad, who suffer as well. Just to go, no shame. No shame here, this is totally not your fault. And doesn't mean your brain's bad. Just means that it's maybe not your friend at the moment. And um, it also does not define you. This is not defining who you are. You are not a depressed person. Your brain is just not helping you out at the moment. And um, it's been really good to talk to him about it.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  And to work that through. And I think he's probably looked back through the rest of his life and gone. Yeah, I would have been suffering from this the whole time, but it wasn't until a big life moment happened, as in the job went away, that he went. Oh, uh, I'm nothing now, because all I, a lot of my self-worth was put on the job. And providing for the family and all the rest of it. So I don't come at this book with no experience of difficult situations. But I do, I do think there are, there are lessons to be learnt from how my dad was. And thought, oh, my god, that's it, life over at fifty, because what am I without my job?

• 59:33Speaker 02

  And so I've always kept that in my head of like, well, you're loads of things. Everyone is loads of things without their job. A job is just. You know, sort of bending down to your paymasters to a certain extent.

• 59:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but society doesn't, you know, give you a pat on the back for being kind or thoughtful or inquisitive or all the qualities that we have. But it doesn't, does it? You know, the first thing you say when you meet someone is, what do you do?

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:00:01Fearne Cotton?

  And you talk about this when you speak to listeners on the radio show, you know.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Funny one that, isn't it? I'm conflicted over that because equally it's a quick shorthand, isn't it?

• 1:00:08Fearne Cotton?

  But it's interesting. I like how people do. Yeah.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Can be really interesting as well.

• 1:00:11Fearne Cotton?

  But we are obsessed by that above anything else, any other qualities.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right. And that's, that's part of the, this is, this is the whole thing, isn't it? These are societal pressures of like, you're nothing unless you get a good job. Well, that's just not true.

• 1:00:24Fearne Cotton?

  Nope.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  You can have a really lovely job that just pays your way, give yourself a nice life and it doesn't define you and you leave your work at work at 5pm and you go off and have a lovely evening, you go and join a sports club, you go and fly a kite or whatever you want to go and do. And that's wonderful.

• 1:00:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  But if you put too much on anything, it's like if you put too much on your relationship, if you put too much on one particular thing and then suddenly that's gone, what are you left with? So you do have to make sure you've got good, sort of just a good spread of stuff in your life and you are not, I keep saying it, but you, maybe convincing myself, you are not your job because it will go. There'll be a period of time where I will be washed up and not on the radio and breakfast show.

• 1:01:12Fearne Cotton?

  We'll both be doing panto, mate.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  And that's fine. Bring that on.

• 1:01:16Fearne Cotton?

  Bring it on.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  I could go and hang out with Paul Chuckle.

• 1:01:18Fearne Cotton?

  Do what? I've got my backup plan always, you know, because I've definitely had points where I've thought, I can't do this anymore. I'm out. The pressure's too much. I don't want people thinking they know who I am or gossiping, talking shit about me.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Fearne Cotton?

  My constant is, I'm going to start a cat sanctuary.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:34Fearne Cotton?

  You could do a dog one.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  I think everyone's got one of them. It's either, I don't think I could do a dog sanctuary. I could, mm, I think it's bookshop for me.

• 1:01:44Fearne Cotton?

  Bookshop, yeah, like Hugh Grant in Notting Hill, we're thinking that kind of vibe.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  I think that's what everyone thinks, that's what every slightly floppy haired man thinks. They're like, walking around with a tote bag.

• 1:01:55Fearne Cotton?

  Just waiting for Julia Roberts to show up.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, looking interesting. I've read, I've read all these. See these? I've read them all twice. Yeah, I think that's, that's probably it. But I, I, who's, this is it. I've sort of posed this question of like, who's to say I would have been any happier doing the job that my mum and dad did? Both teachers, I would have loved that. Um, in another world, I would have loved to have done another thing. There's a lot, I think you could, there are loads of different lives you could have had and can still have.

• 1:02:22Fearne Cotton?

  Can still, yeah.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  That's the other thing. And as much as I don't mean this to be an attack on Bella, there are lots of, and the same for me, like, there's lots of people that we could have fallen in love with and got married to. In fact, she did get married to someone else before me. You know, there are lots of people that you can end up with. There are lots of friends you can find. So it's, it's, it's kind of, a lot of it is chance and a lot of it is random. So you might as well, um, you might as well enjoy the ones that you're enjoying at that moment.

• 1:02:50Fearne Cotton?

  Too right. And there can always be a new chapter, always. I love a new chapter. Love it. Before we round things off, Gregory Millwood, where is your happy place?

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Are you trying to get rid of me now, by the way? Or is this?

• 1:03:02Fearne Cotton?

  This is like my polite wrap up.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  No, but is this a normal part of the show where you'd get rid of me? Or are you bored?

• 1:03:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no, no, no. We've actually sort of surpassed the hour, which is, yeah.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  I get, I pay by the hour, don't I for this?

• 1:03:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Psychotherapy. So I will be invoicing you afterwards.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:18Fearne Cotton?

  Uh, where is your happy place? Doesn't have to be literal.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Hmm. I think it's walking around with Bella and Barney after a long day. That's it.

• 1:03:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is, we, we, we have to force ourselves to do it sometimes because she'll be stressed or I'll be tired. Or it's like, oh, I have to go and take the dog for a walk. But then we go, no. We've got this amazing, this mad creature living in our house who just wants to live. I've learnt so much of that fucking stupid dog.

• 1:03:55Fearne Cotton?

  I love how much you talk about it.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  I've learnt so much about joy from him.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  He's got three bionic legs, which has cost thousands. Please buy the book, I need it. Um, he got two bad knees. Uh, he did that, he did his ACL on both legs.

• 1:04:12Fearne Cotton?

  That's what my producer, Anushka's done. Nightmare.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  Let me send her to the super vet.

• 1:04:16Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, what to Noel?

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, to Noel. Right, so Noel Fitzpatrick sorted Barney out.

• 1:04:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, he is, he is the bio, he is the best bionic vet out there.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:04:25Fearne Cotton?

  World class.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Barney wakes up every day and just wants to play with us. He just wants to wrestle with me every day. He wakes me up on a weekend by just doing that on my head.

• 1:04:36Fearne Cotton?

  Get up while you're asleep, boring.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  It's like, come on. And if I don't wake up, he starts hitting me over the head with his paw. And I'm like, oh my God. But he's, he's, he's, he's undeniably fun.

• 1:04:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  And I go, all right then, let's go.

• 1:04:50Fearne Cotton?

  Let's go.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  And he reminds me, I never thought that I'd be best friends with a dog, by the way. I never saw that for me. I was always like, that's nice that you've got your little dog.

• 1:05:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, cute.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  All right. And now I'm just, I'm dog man.

• 1:05:05Fearne Cotton?

  I'm a dog person.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  And I just, I love hanging out with him. And he's just always wiggling around.

• 1:05:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  And like, let's go for a walk. Even if he's tired, he's like, let's go swimming.

• 1:05:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  And that's, that's what, that's my happy place is, uh, all walking around the block with Bella. And I'm holding a glass of wine like Rihanna.

• 1:05:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  That's my fave.

• 1:05:27Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. It feels so reckless, doesn't it, doing that? Although we are allowed in the UK to walk around the streets with alcohol. It's like, I've got a wine glass. This is reckless.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  I'm in my pyjamas, I'm holding a wine glass, I'm drinking wine whilst we're just walking around, just chatting, just de, de, like, just downloading the day, de-stressing.

• 1:05:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  I'd say that would be it.

• 1:05:46Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, so lovely. I really laughed when you were telling the story about you were trying to pick up a dog shit and Barney's putting you on, and you actually said out loud, what the fuck, what's going on here?

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  But that's another thing. I mean, I, I guess it's similar to kids and like, they, they really, they ground you and they humble you.

• 1:06:01Fearne Cotton?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  And you know, for a teenage kid, their, their parents, even if they're pop stars or very successful presenters, authors.

• 1:06:08Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Rex thinks I'm an absolute moron.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Right.

• 1:06:11Fearne Cotton?

  Like hugely. I will, you know, he's about to become a teenager in the new year. Terrifying.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  That is terrifying.

• 1:06:17Fearne Cotton?

  And I will, I'm deeply trying to impress him, telling him things, explaining what I do.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  That might be one of the reasons that I don't want kids.

• 1:06:25Fearne Cotton?

  Mmm.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  It's because I'm like, I don't want a teenager to bring me back down to size.

• 1:06:29Fearne Cotton?

  But it's even more than that. It's like they reject you and you think, how can this be? I was going to be the one mum that wasn't going to be rejected by the teenager. And in real time, it's happening.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Well, let me tell you this, I won't be rejected by my kids because I'm not going to have any. Okay. So fuck you.

• 1:06:49Fearne Cotton?

  Cut. Scene. Done. That was a perfect dead note. Greg, you're the best.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  Was that fun? Was that all right?

• 1:06:57Fearne Cotton?

  It was so great. Oh, I loved that. It was so good. That's one of those episodes that could have gone on for three hours. You know, like American podcasts go on for about five hours, like Joe Rogan or Jay Shetty. We just do like nice, short, stappy ones because my feeling is you lot are like, you know, you're on, you're on the work commute, you're out on a dog walk. You haven't got three hours, right? I'm not wrong, am I? You can correct me. Go on Instagram and tell me if I'm wrong. But I think the length we're doing is good. But that is one that I felt like was almost too short. I could have done another hour. So many things didn't talk about. Maybe we'll do a part two. I love Greg. Greg's book, All the Best of the Future, is out now. Right. I cannot tell you how much you're going to want to be back here next week.

• 1:07:40Fearne Cotton?

  We have got someone really creative and thoughtful and kind and funny on the show next week. And I think it will put some real humanity back into the world at a time when it is really needed. Until then, a huge thanks again to Greg, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you. You are gorgeous.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

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• 1:08:59Speaker 06

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisie Adams. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yes! A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Nom nom nom nom nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.