Coleen Rooney: Marriage takes work! Coping with the press and raising four kids

How good are you at being honest with other people? Go on, be honest with yourself about that one! Coleen Rooney would always rather tell the truth before a situation escalates. In this chat with Fearne, Coleen explains how she’s instilling that honesty is the best policy in her four sons, as well as why she’s so grateful to have a village around her to help raise her boys. With four children, Coleen is in a lot of school gate WhatsApp groups, so she and Fearne spill what really goes down in those wild group chats... They also chat about how she and husband Wayne prioritise time as a couple, especially after so many years together, and what it was really like being thrust into the public eye as a teenager just because her boyfriend was a footballer. Plus, Coleen has dealt with some incredibly stressful situations in her life, so what does she do to make sure it doesn’t overwhelm her? Coleen is an ambassador for the protein, vitamins and collagen brand Applied Nutrition. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Lemn Sissay https://pod.fo/e/22c47d Ashley John Baptiste https://pod.fo/e/242b68 Gary and Emma Neville https://pod.fo/e/26c21b Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To market, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that explores the myriad unique scenarios that challenge and strengthen us. Today, I'm chatting to Colleen Rooney.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  There was one time where I thought, no, you're going a bit too far now, as we were doing the production, we were doing Bugsy Malone, and the ad press trying to come in to the school hall to watch it, it was like the parents and friends and family. And one of the teachers got me before the performance, and I was like, we've just had to put some more people on the door, and I was asking people who they're here to see. He said, because someone's been flagged up and it's someone from the press that's coming in. I'm glad they never, because I was fat Sam.

• 1:08Fearne Cotton?

  How are you all doing, you lovely lot? I'm at that nice cosy point in the year where I'm really embracing the wintery vibes. I always think I'm going to dread winter, and then this sort of bit of the year, I'm like, mm, I like it, I'm all cosy, the fluffy socks are out, I'm enjoying little hibernation evenings where I sort of light some candles, watch Great British Bake Off and put a little blanket on. I love it, oh, heaven, I hope that you're finding it cosy and nourishing too. And also, like all good humans, I'm slightly turning into my mum by Christmas shopping already.

• 1:50Fearne Cotton?

  I used to find that so irritating that my mum would Christmas shop so early. I mean, my mum does take the piss, like she'll Christmas shop in March, but I've started buying things already. And then there's the problem of where am I storing all this stuff? Just shoving it under beds and hope the cats don't rip it all to shreds. But I've started, I've started, it's happening. I might even have a mulled wine at some point this week, guys, hold it. So look, let's get on to this week's episode. We talked to lovely Colleen. Colleen was catapulted into the public eye and in many ways became a sort of public property when the press discovered that she was Manchester United footballer Wayne Rooney's girlfriend when she was 16. I mean, you'll remember

• 2:32Fearne Cotton?

  the pictures of her in her school uniform, being patted in her uniform. It was just all so bizarre. We talk about what a wild ride that was. Now, she is obviously these days a massively busy working mum of four, four boys, and an ambassador for the protein, vitamins and collagen brand Applied Nutrition. What stood out about this chat? Well, we talked about loads. We talked about the sort of overwhelm of WhatsApp groups. When you've got four kids, the amount of admin and this new fangled thing of WhatsApp groups for parents in schools to keep on top of everything. My parents used to sort of kick me out the door and go bye and I'd walk to school on my own and they never had to deal with any of this. I don't think they even asked me, have you done your homework? I just sort

• 3:16Fearne Cotton?

  of did my own thing. These days, I feel like I might as well be at school with my kids half the time. We talk about all of that and parenting 21st century kids, the relationship that you have with your partner outside of being a parent, which is obviously very important, and how her and Wayne have managed to navigate a lot of challenges and stayed together for so long since the age of 16, which is just absolutely bonkers. And how she deals with stress because obviously she's had quite a lot of it over the last few years.

• 4:21Speaker 03

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• 4:50Speaker 04

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• 5:34Speaker 04

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• 5:46Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, let's crack on with the show. Although, just give Colleen a quick second while she finishes her sip of water.

• 6:14Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, lovely Colleen.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Sorry, I wasn't ready.

• 6:19Fearne Cotton?

  There's no massive formal start, just start chatting.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Hi, you okay?

• 6:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm really good, thank you, you? I'm good, you're down in London for a day, a couple of days?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Just a day, I came this morning, I leave this evening. I can't take too long because I've got to get back to the kids and sort them out.

• 6:36Fearne Cotton?

  You've got four boys?

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:38Fearne Cotton?

  And we're back into the school routine, the first turn back.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:43Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you think, oh my god, the summer holidays is going on forever. And then actually, when they start back at school, you're like, this is harder.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, never is. I think, you know, in the summer, it's quite nice having some time to switch off and just go with the flow. You know, there's no routine to follow, there's no homework to be in the next day. Where when school starts, I do love a routine, however, everything just piles up on top of each other. And I think, you know, I've got one who's just gone into year seven secondary school and he's trying to cope with the homework loads. Because obviously, there's been a big jump, so we've had that. And then after school activities as well, you're not, you know, you're going out for the morning, then you're not coming home till half eight at night, yeah.

• 7:26Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, the juggle is real, it's so insane. The homework thing is mind boggling to me. My son just started secondary school and he came home yesterday and the maths homework was mad. It was like, he was like, oh mum, what's 7.492 to the nearest three decimals? And I was like, oh, I don't know what this is.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Sometimes at that point of the day, your mind just doesn't focus. And you're just like, come on, can we just get it done and we can, you know, bath and bed? But no, it's, well, my eight year old's maths last night, I had to put it into my family group. And say, does anyone know how to figure this out? It was like a challenge question at the end and it took time to think about it. But I didn't have the time to stop and think about it. So I was like, trying for a quick fix, but I couldn't figure it out. So I said, can anyone figure this out? But we did in the end. Well, I think, well, he didn't. I said, tell your teacher that you have family help, yeah? Because you've never done that. But do I have to? Yeah.

• 8:28Fearne Cotton?

  I know, we end up, my stepdaughter luckily is doing economics at uni and she's a real maths whiz. So I called her yesterday and I went, I need your maths assistance immediately. Put her on FaceTime and then just leave them to it. I, I don't know how to cope with this stuff. I'm absolutely clueless. Please don't tell me that you're on four separate parents WhatsApp groups.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, four, four classes, four years. And then we've got football groups and we've got, yeah, we've got a lot of groups going on. It's hectic.

• 9:00Fearne Cotton?

  I, this might be controversial, really struggle with the parents WhatsApp groups. It's too much.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Do you know what? There's pros and cons because there is sometimes where, you know, certain parts, I am an organised person and I try and have every, and wrote down in my diary and, but you know, we are human, we do miss things. And someone will pop up on, you know, one of the parents WhatsApp saying, oh, tomorrow's non-uniform day or two. And I'm like, thank goodness you've just said that because I've got all the uniforms laid out there. And they would have gone into school in the uniforms. So there is little things where they are handy, but there was one time where my phone for, I think it was like three days maybe, was going off at like five in the morning. I was thinking,

• 9:43Fearne Cotton?

  What?

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Who is this? And it just got to day three and I was like, can we have a rule where you don't message him before at least half six?

• 9:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  And that was being generous. Um, well, I am up at that time, but it still is early.

• 9:57Fearne Cotton?

  It's too much.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  She said, oh, sorry, I'm just working from in Dubai at the minute. I was like, yeah, but please.

• 10:03Fearne Cotton?

  But please.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Everyone else in England, you're in Dubai, we're in England.

• 10:06Fearne Cotton?

  But also just, can we keep it to essential chats?

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:10Fearne Cotton?

  Because I think sometimes when it goes off into.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  We've lost the sock.

• 10:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we're just going off on all sorts of tangents that I can't handle. But four, I can, well, I say just about cope with two, I struggle with two. Four, plus, as you say, you've got the whole year group, you've got the extracurriculars. It's insane. Our parents back in the day would boot us out the door and go, bye.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:31Fearne Cotton?

  And then we'd go to school and they didn't know anything about anything.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  They would get a letter home to tell that, you know, every now and again, but yeah, no, it was simple.

• 10:40Fearne Cotton?

  It was so easy at times. They had it so easy back in the day. That's ridiculous. Do your, are your four boys all very different in personality?

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Yes. Um, I'd say I've got two and two, two are alike and the other two are alike. My eldest and my. Third one, they're, you know, a bit more fiery and energetic and saying that they're all energetic, but they've just got that bit more, you know, one attention. Um, me second and me fourth, I'd say a bit more laid back in a way, in a way. As laid back as, you know, boys can be. Uh, but yeah, no, the, it's nice because they have got all different, different ways about them and they give me different, you know, different love and, and, um, yeah,

• 11:32Speaker 02

  it's, it's nice. It's, you know, it's a good balance.

• 11:35Fearne Cotton?

  Do they fight? Cause I think my kids hate each other a lot of the time.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  I just say, as soon as we get in the car, I said, please don't talk to each other. Just focus on what you're doing. Do not have a conversation because it's going to go into a row or an argument. They just wind each other up. That's what it is. And it goes in like a domino effect. So the oldest winds the second one up, the second one winds the third and then, yeah, it's mayhem, but they fight all the time.

• 12:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, mine do. I'm glad you're saying that because sometimes I'm like, why do not the, not my stepkids, but those younger two, fight about everything. It could be, they could be arguing over a satsuma. It could be something that they don't even care about. It's just the fact that they can, they can vent about the satsuma. It's wild.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  My third one just mentions like a girl's name in my youngest one's ear and he goes, and next minute it's like, it just takes off. But, um, yeah, I don't think, I think I've got a long way to go for them to grow out of that.

• 12:36Fearne Cotton?

  Good luck.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  I know.

• 12:38Fearne Cotton?

  How do you cope with that energy in the house? Four boys and a husband. You're the only female energy in the house.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Do you know what? I enjoy it. I think that's where I thrive off. You know, I, I like to keep busy. I like, growing up, I had two brothers and, you know, our house was very active. My dad always had us, you know, out and about doing different things and, um, and we always had family nearby. So it was a very full house. You never knew who was going to knock on the door. So I think I've grown up in that active environment. And so I think for me, it's, it's, it's quite natural. It's a madhouse. My, one of my sons, my second one who's gone into secondary school, he got asked a question the other day and he said, in school, and they said, if you can describe your family in one word, what would you say?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  He said, mental. I went, what did the teacher say? He went, he just said, he went, no, they are loving and kind and that, but it's just mad. Thinking, oh no, the teacher's gonna think, oh, what's going on in that house?

• 13:39Fearne Cotton?

  I'm pretty sure that most would assume that four boys equals some kind of chaos. I think it's fine. I mean, it is a hell of a lot. What kind of parent are you? Are you the sort of parent you thought you'd be? Because I, I think I always assumed, and even when I had my stepkids, I thought oh, I'm just gonna be so laid back and floating around. I am not that person. I'm the opposite of that person.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  I am. Uh, no, I would say I'm more the stricter one. I like things in order. And if you say to my kids, they would say, oh, she's a moaner. She moans all the time. But that's because I need things to get done. And if I didn't, I asked them nicely first. And then it develops into a moan or a shout or whatever. But it's, they just don't listen. And that's why. And I tell them that. I say, you know, things would be so much easier and we would have a more, you know, happier home if you just listen the first time and do stuff the first time.

• 14:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  But yeah, no, I would say I am probably the parent I thought I would be. But I think as I've had more kids, I think it's gone a bit more difficult because I have to share the time. When you have one, I think it was more, you know, I had time to do, go out on these days out. And, you know, I try and do a lot. And especially with Wayne being away, I do a lot on my own. And people do say, oh my goodness, how do you do all that? And I just say, you've got to get on with it, haven't you? And that, I say that a lot in my life is, you know, it's like, you just get on with it and you manage it no matter what. I can look at the diary at the beginning of the week and think, oh, how am I gonna cope with this? But

• 15:16Speaker 02

  I know I'm gonna do it. So it's fine, you know, we can get on with it, we can do it. But yeah, I think I am a fair parent. I'd say Wayne was the one who's a bit more laid back and can have, you know, a bit more fun with them. But I say that's because, you know, when you're in, you've got the time to, you're not organising things for the next day, you're not packing bags, you're not doing this. And my mum says it about, you know, when we were children. My dad was always, you know, the active one, always doing the fun stuff always. And my mum used to always be there, but she was the one who was the organiser, making the house at home, you know, doing all that stuff. And I think it's, you know, sometimes in a house, that's the natural way it is.

• 15:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it happens so often without a doubt. I mean, I've definitely heard you say that before in other interviews, that you've just got to get on with it. It's an attitude that I think actually serves you really well in terms of having a ton of resilience and being able to move through chaos and, you know, having four boys, it's a hell of a lot. And working and just the whole juggle, it's a hell of a lot. Do you need time on your own when you're just in solitude or time out from all of it?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Yes, definitely. I think that everyone needs a bit of me time. You know, whether you get it a lot or, you know, just now and again, I think you do need time to reset and think, you know, just think everything's gonna be okay. It's fine. It's fine to feel that way. Um, I probably gym, go in the gym, do an exercise, that hour or forty five minutes of me either being in it, I do like a love reformer Pilates. Um, I'll go to a class and then I do, you know, gyms a couple of days a week. I find that that's my time, that's my time to not think about, you know, what do we need to do? Well, you know, it creeps in sometimes, but then you've got to focus on what you're doing. So you do, you know, have that time. And then I've always made

• 17:12Speaker 02

  time for, you know, me and Wayne to go, you know, if he's got a couple of days off, you know, a couple of times throughout the year, we'll go away and just have time together. And I do it with the kids as well. So in the summer holidays, I say to them all, what do you want to do this? Summer holiday, whether it be a day out or a night over somewhere. And I'll say to them, do you want to bring a friend or do you want it to be just me and you? And we've, I've done that since, you know, I've, I've had, gone on to have, you know, more kids. And they love that. They love that one on one time. And I think it's, it's special that you, you can still say, you know, you are part of this family. And sometimes you mightn't feel like an individual, but you're actually, you know, you can come to me anytime and I will have time for you.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  But, you know, when we're in the house, it might seem mad and I haven't got time for you, but you know, I'll always make it.

• 18:02Fearne Cotton?

  It's so important, I think especially with your partner, because with kids, with the chaos of family life, it's so easy to only ever chat about that. And to go, have you done the snack? Are you doing the school run? You know, me and my husband can absolutely get into that pattern of only talking about that. And we'll go, oh, we haven't got time for a date night. I actually can't be bothered. I'm too tired. Once they're in bed, I just want to go to sleep. But it is really important if you can to make that time to go for dinner or go for lunch if you can, or a night away if that's possible. Do you think, like, when you are with Wayne in that space, are you able to sort of not talk about the kids and just be a couple and chat about life?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Yes, like most of the time, the kids do creep in at some point, but I think, you know, we do and we, you know, you'd have a laugh again. And that's, that's good to have that. And I think, you know, because you're not doing it all the time, which it would be a perfect life if you could do that all the time. But them times that you do, it feels like a treat.

• 19:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  And I think that's nice. And, you know, we, we even, when we first moved into the house we live in now, we've got like an annex. So we got a babysitter in one night and we had the kids on this Life 360 app. So you know where it's like you can detect on their devices, they, you can detect the older one, if he was coming home from school. I know where the school bus is. And so we said, right, we're going out, see you later. But we never, we went to the annex because we couldn't be bothered. We just wanted tonight to watch some TV. We've got to take away. And we got a ping of a message. And they were like, where are you? And we're like, oh, we've gone out, telling the little fib.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  And he went, no, you're not, you're over, you're over in the annex. I was like, oh, oh, yeah. Oh, I was thinking, you can't do anything without getting caught out. But even simple things like that, just to sit down and watch a bit of TV.

• 19:54Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that's my dream night.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:56Fearne Cotton?

  Just watching.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:57Fearne Cotton?

  Any old shit on Netflix and just decompressing and having, I think it's so important, especially when you've had kids a long time and your eldest is 14. So you've been a mum for 14 years, to sort of remember that you are a human outside of that, because it is so all consuming. And you rarely switch off from it. Even when you're working, you can be worrying about where they are, how they're getting home from school, whatever it might be. And you become so consumed by the sense of responsibility that you forget what you like doing.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:28Fearne Cotton?

  Like who you are as a person, what you might do if you had free time. I feel like I'm only now, my eldest is 11. I've got stepchildren, but they're adults, they're independent now. But I'm just going, oh, wait, I, I remember who I am outside of that role. I think it takes years.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, but to be honest, I've, I think I, I cracked it from, you know, from the beginning. When I had Kai, I've got a really close family who are supportive and they've literally, because Wayne's spent a lot of time away over the years playing football. My parents have literally brought up my kids with me, you know, they've helped out so much. And from the beginning, from when Kai was a baby, we've always gone on holiday for a week a year and left the children. So they've always known that it's not been a shock to them later on when we've said, right, we need to have some time to ourselves. And I think that's a good thing. A lot of parents and children get so attached that part and they can't deal with.

• 21:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Whereas I do feel like I've done it from the beginning and it's never been a difficulty with us. And then that's always been our week a year where we've spent a whole week away. It feels like forever because we've got no kids. And but we're always coming back and it goes back to the same thing as soon as we like. And it's, you know, it's men again, but it's just nice to take yourself away from it. And also you start, you know, you miss them, but you think of, you know, things aren't that bad. You know, when you think, oh, I've got this to do, I've got that, it's fine, you know, it's, it is, it's nice.

• 22:03Fearne Cotton?

  You sort of zoom out of the situation. And I think it's so interesting when you end up staying in an area where you've got family, which is so often not the case, you know, people will move away from where their parents live or people will move from a rural area to a city. And then you find yourself just in this nuclear family trying to cope. And so many people don't because they haven't got the support or they can't get childcare. I think there's something to be said for your mental state and the level of calm that you feel. Being in an area where you've got family and that support network. And it was so much more common back in the day that that sort of collective, the village raised the children. It's such an important thing that not many people experience these days.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  No, hundred percent. And I, I had that experience when we moved to America, we moved to America for a year. And it was so hard because I'd gone from having all that support. And I would have loved my mum and dad to come over, but I couldn't be selfish on my brothers because they look after their children as well. And I find myself in this big new place where four children, my youngest was six months at the time. And I struggled, I struggled. I didn't ever think there was any such thing as homesickness, but it hit in really fast and hard. And, and I cried and cried and I'm not a crier, but I couldn't even FaceTime. My mum, my mum and dad would be on the FaceTime to the kids and I hear my mum go, is your mum there? And I'm like, oh, I couldn't look at her.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  I just couldn't do it. And it sounds like, like it's a big exaggeration, but that.

• 23:36Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's horrible.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  It was so hard.

• 23:39Fearne Cotton?

  And not seeing your mates.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  But then, yeah, and my friends and it just, that, it made me so appreciative of what I did have and what I've now got. And we were only there a year, we were meant to be there two years, but it was, yeah, it was an experience and I got. Goodness of it, like appreciation, even like our education system. You know, it's, we have got some good things that, you know, people don't realise until you move away.

• 24:09Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god, the relief of coming home must have been.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Oh, so nice.

• 24:12Fearne Cotton?

  Just the best thing ever. I mean, you and Wayne have been together now, how many years?

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Oh, um, twenty-two years or so.

• 24:20Fearne Cotton?

  It's unbelievable. A marriage for?

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Sixteen.

• 24:24Fearne Cotton?

  Sixteen.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  I think, I might have to check on that.

• 24:27Fearne Cotton?

  That's wild. I mean, obviously, we've heard that this week away is essential and having these date nights is super, super important. What do you think has kept you strong and together? Because you've had so much pressure and stress on you as a couple, and very publicly as well. And you've navigated it seemingly very gracefully. What do you think has kept you together as a couple privately, outside of the public layer?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  I think growing up with each other, you know, we've, we've known each other from a young age and, you know, been together from a really young age. It's not, you know, at the time, you think you're old and you think you're, but when I look now, I was sixteen and we're having my, my son nearly fifteen. I think I was only a baby, I was so young. But I think, you know, we've, we've grew up together, we've, we've gone through the hard times together. We've gone through the good times together and we, we know each other well. I know that sounds like, but you, you find some couples and they don't actually know each other that well. Um, I find that, you know, I always say, if you ask me what me and Wayne are, I would say we're, we're a team.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  And we've helped each other through life. Um, and there's things that, you know, we're good at seeing the, the, the better outcome rather than the worst. And I don't know whether that's something that I could, I could take credit for, but I was brought up with that outlook of life. You know, my dad's always said, you know, there's, you know, worse situations than what you go, what you're going through. Not me personally, like when we were, you know, say, when I was a teenager or, and I used to say about life, you know, we're millionaires, we weren't millionaires, we, you know, we didn't have a lot, but he just meant like by health and we're living, we've got a roof over our head. And so I think that outlook in life has always carried me through.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Going through bad times, I was, and it goes through my head, come on, Colleen, get a grip. There's worse people going through much worse things than you. Um, and I think that's always. Got me through things.

• 26:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, without a doubt, it just goes back to that resilience of going, I've got to pick myself back up and get on with it, which is not easy.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  And sometimes you mightn't have to get, you know, you could draw a line under and say, you know, this is, but with me and Wayne, you know, I've always said, there was always love still there. So why throw it away when you can work at it? If you work at it and it doesn't work, then, you know, forget about it then and, you know, go your own separate ways. But there's always been love, there's always been, we've never wanted to part, but situations are set in where we, it could have happened. And, you know, we, we mightn't have got through it, but we have, and that's the way, you know, I've got to look at it. And hopefully, you know, that's, it's, you know, going to be like that for the rest of our, you know, it's going to be a nice, smooth sailing marriage.

• 27:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  I don't know whether you can get one of them.

• 27:20Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, no, no marriages, what any, you know, we can all make assumptions about perfect couples, they don't exist.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 27:26Fearne Cotton?

  There's always huge ups and downs. Does working through stuff to you mean having really honest chats, open dialogue with Wayne? Is that something that you are good at as a couple?

• 27:36Speaker 02

  My, you know, just get it out on the table, just say it because there's no point in keeping it in. Because that's where you get yourself all worked up and I've seen that happen to so many people. And even with the kids, I say, get it out, deal with it, get your punishment done and then move on. Like one of my sons, the eldest, going back years ago, he'd come home one night and a new something had gone on. I said to him, what's, you know, what's, are you something on your mind? He said, I'd done a prank call to one of the kids in school on the school bus on the way home. He said, and his parents are going to come into the school. I was like, well, do you think you should have done that? He said, no. I said, well, there you go. I said, in the morning, you go straight into school, you tell the teacher. I said, and then whatever happens then, you deal with.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  I said, but she will appreciate you more for going in, owning up before then parents call. I said, and you're, you sit there all day with, you know, anxious, waiting for that call to come out of the classroom. I said, you just do it before that and then you'll feel better. So he did and, you know, the teacher said, I'm, you know, really impressed of how he's done that. So that's always been my, you know, way of dealing with situations is. You know, truth is the best.

• 28:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Thing.

• 28:49Fearne Cotton?

  Get it out on the table. And because I think actually certainly in marriages, when we're not articulating ourselves as we want, that always turns to resentment.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:58Fearne Cotton?

  And that is a horrible place to be. It feels like shit. So actually, just saying what's on your mind, having that open dialogue, it feels messy and sticky, but it's actually always going to lead to a better outcome.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And sometimes people don't like to hear the truth, and it can cause, you know, arguments, and it can cause ongoing arguments. But, you know, again, you've just got to work through it.

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• 31:53Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, looking now at your eldest, as you say, he's a similar age to when you met Wayne, but also when the public eye was just on you guys in a huge way. You were only 16 when you were being papped on the way back from school. And do you know what? Before this chat, I was sort of Googling those pictures and I was like, this is actually creepy. You're in a school uniform, walking back from school with your rucksack on, being papped. I mean, how, what was that like for you?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  It was, yeah, it was weird, but you know, when you're in a situation, it doesn't seem real. It's not now when you say, look back on it. I think when you look back on a lot of things back in the day in the press, it was quite creepy, but that, I was walking to school and I was seeing a man at the end of the road with his car bonnet up and then a camera at the top of it. And I went into school and I said to a few of the girls, but then Wayne got back to the teacher and she was to call me. She was like, I think we're gonna have to ring your parents and just let them know because, you know, we don't feel that it's right that someone was doing that. And then Wayne had, he had called at my house that morning because he was going on, off to play football somewhere. So what they had done is followed him and then knew someone was gonna come out the

• 33:07Speaker 02

  house and waited for me. And then on the I think it was the Sunday, my nan was on the phone. Have you seen the papers? I was like, what? And it was in, I think it was like near the front, big picture of me walking to school in the uniform. But yeah, it was, I don't know, it was just crazy. It, there was no stu-, like, obviously I was Wayne's girlfriend, but there was nothing else to it. But that's where it's all come from, from just, you know, like that photograph walking to school and.

• 33:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, um, yeah, it's weird.

• 33:38Fearne Cotton?

  Did you, was it strange going to school? Were your friends treating you differently? Were kids saying anything to you?

• 33:44Speaker 02

  So at the time when it all happened, there was a bit of like, it was a weird excitement, you know, everyone was like, what's going on?

• 33:50Fearne Cotton?

  I would have been, I would have loved it. I would have been like, my mate's been patted, this is amazing.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  So everyone else, but for me, I was a bit, you know, obviously Wayne had been patted a few times. So I knew that what it was like for him, but I couldn't get my head around why they would be interested in, in me. But yeah, the school was a bit, there was one time where I thought, no, you're going a bit too far now, was we were doing the production. We were doing Bugsy Malone and they had press trying to come in to the school hall to watch it. It was like the parents and friends and family. And one of the teachers got me before the performance. I was like, we've just had to put some more people on the door. And I was asking people who they're here to see. He said, because someone's been flagged up and it's, um, someone from the press that's coming in to.

• 34:36Fearne Cotton?

  To watch a school production of Bugsy Malone.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  I'm glad they never, because I was fat Sam.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  It was an all-girls school, so we had to play male roles and I was fat Sam, so.

• 34:49Fearne Cotton?

  It's wild. I mean, what crazy times. The press in this country are obviously, I don't even have a word to describe them, but they love to build up an underdog and. You know, they love to pluck people from obscurity and go, look at these guys. And obviously, you know, you weren't plucked from obscurity. Because Wayne had a really thriving football career at the time and you're an innocent couple going about your business. But they love to build people up.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:15Fearne Cotton?

  And go, this is the golden couple. We're going to follow everything they do. We're going to find out their nan. Name and where they live and all of this detail. And then they love to pull them down. That is their favourite. It's like a little process we see happen after, whether it's a reality show or a new pop star that's out. Build them up and then drag them down. How have you dealt with that? Because you do, and I've been through it myself. You know, I was on radio and being papped every day and I couldn't do anything wrong. And then they absolutely went for me in every way they possibly could. And you get used to being not only papped, but also talked about in a relatively either innocuous or positive way.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:54Fearne Cotton?

  And then when you're gunned down, it feels horrendous. I mean, I remember questioning everything about my own personality. Like, is there something wrong with me? People aren't telling me. Am I awful at my job? It really chips away at your confidence. For you, in those moments where they have gone for you, they've attacked you or your family. How have you mentally coped with that?

• 36:18Speaker 02

  You know, it hits. I think the younger I was, the more I took on board, the more I thought, why have you, why are you being nasty? You know, it's not, and nasty is a nice word to use. Um, I, but I did, when I was younger, I did get on the phone to a few journalists and say, how can you write something about a young girl like that and bring my family into it? That was a big thing. Once they brought my family into it, I went on the attack because you've got, you know, you've got a right to say something about me. This is when I've, I started doing some work within, I've, you know, I've put myself into it now. So I've got to accept some things, but you do not bring my family into it. And that's where I did go into the, you know, I did attack and say, you've got no right to speak about anyone else.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Even my friends, you know, they've, they've spoke about my friends in a bad way before. And I've just said, no, you need to draw a line. You can say whatever you want about me and I'll take it, but you cannot say anything about my friends and family. And that, that was more hurtful because the things they're saying about me, I can take. I know they're not, I know they're not true. And as long as everyone around me and who were important to me know that, then that's fine. But. The people that they're talking about haven't put themselves out there to get talked about, you know. And no one puts themselves out there to get talked about in a bad way, but you know, there's gonna be some.

• 37:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  You're not everyone's cup of tea.

• 37:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  You know, there's gonna be some comments, there's gonna be opinions. And I always say, okay, people have got opinions and I've got to take that on board. But not bring anyone else into it. That, that was the hardest thing for me.

• 37:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's not cool.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  No.

• 37:56Fearne Cotton?

  It's really not cool. It's a horrible, horrible feeling.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  I would say Wayne struggled with it more than me.

• 38:02Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Um, he's struggled and he's, you know, he spoke out about, you know, he's, but he's had it. 10 times worse than what I've had it. Um, but yeah, I think it's just, it's not fair.

• 38:15Fearne Cotton?

  And also football fans are pretty horrible a lot of the time. Like, we had Gary Neville on recently and we were at our Happy Place Festival, lovely, lovely audience. He was like, oh my God, this audience is so nice. Like, football fans can be so vile. So, you know, Wayne's got that as well. He's got the press.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's horrible, like.

• 38:33Fearne Cotton?

  People shouting stuff at you. It's horrible.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  And still, like, even now he's managing and you still get, you know, the away fans shouting and chanting and. And it's not nice. You're sitting in the stands, you've got children there and. But it's gone on for years and I don't think it's gonna change anytime soon. So you've got to take it on board and just, you know, brush it off and think that's what it happens.

• 38:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:58Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, if you.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  It shouldn't, but it does.

• 38:59Fearne Cotton?

  But I think if you do focus on it too much, you literally drive yourself mad.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  I think, you know, some of the people, you, you understand how people in the public eye. Go into rehab, have mental issues, you know, uh, it's so. It's so easy to get caught up in overthinking things and taking it all on board where. I've always said I'm thankful for my, you know, strong mindset that I've had to, to, to get on with it. And to, to see, you know, and also think, you know, some of these people, well, most of them mustn't be happy with their own lives. So because they're attacking other people's lives. I couldn't imagine myself doing that to anyone else. I would be, you've just got to be a nasty piece of work to, to do that.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  So that, you know, and that's what me and my dad's always said, you know what, you should feel sorry for them.

• 39:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Because they're not in the right, you know, headspace and

• 39:53Fearne Cotton?

  Nope.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  They're not good people to be doing that.

• 39:55Fearne Cotton?

  A happy person wouldn't bother. They'd be focusing on

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Their own life.

• 39:58Fearne Cotton?

  Being joyful and doing whatever is making them feel good. I mean, you had to grow up incredibly quickly. You left school, you got engaged really young, you moved into a home with Wayne really young. You were just propelled into this adult life. Did you feel like an adult?

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Yes, um, a lot of the times, obviously, having, you know, been engaged and living, you know, in a house with Wayne. And I just, yeah, I felt like I was an adult, but I still had them times where I'd go to my friends and they were all still in the parents' houses. We'd still sit in someone's bedroom. And I always remember when I got married, I was younger, I was 23 when I got married. I always remember going back to one of my friend's house, she still lived where her mum was sitting and I said, I just think I'm a married woman, I was still having sit offs in bedrooms.

• 40:49Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  I always remember another time we went behind, we used to hang around by a sports centre and there'd been a, a party in the local pub there. And we all, you know, we all got, it was last orders, we all come out and we're all standing on like the wall where we used to all hang around. And again, I thought, oh, I'm back, you know, a married woman standing on the wall where we all used to. And yet I, I don't feel, you know, I didn't feel old, but I felt like I was mature, you know. I did, you know, there was times where I think, oh no, I'm, you know, I'm still done all the things that my friends were doing. But I did have an independence that they didn't, you know, um. And I think we had to, to be, we had to just be wise, we had to.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Be more switched on than what people that age are. We had to understand how things work and yeah, it yeah, I say it was, to be honest, it become, it come quite natural to us. And I don't know whether that's because we had good guidance around us and we, we got to a point where we, we knew that we couldn't do some things that everyone else was doing, or we could do, but we'd done it in a private space.

• 41:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  We, um, not that we'd done anything bad.

• 42:03Fearne Cotton?

  No, no.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  You're just being twenty three olds.

• 42:06Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I, I find it impressive because I think of myself at twenty three, I was an absolute mess. I mean, I was doing great work and I had a job that I really loved, but oh my God, I was all over the shop. I was definitely not mature enough to get married. I was definitely not mature enough to think about having children. I think it's amazing that you did manage that fast track out of necessity, like you say, because you had so much thrown at you. And I guess also you had that natural desire for a sense of family because family has always been really important to you and something that's been just naturally in your life since birth. Your parents seemed like really good eggs who just want to create a beautiful atmosphere in the home, not only having you and your siblings,

• 42:50Fearne Cotton?

  but also they were respite care for families, they were fostering children as well. That's quite an extraordinary way to grow up.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, my, you know, my mum loves and loves children. And that I think, you know, from my mum, she was a nursery nurse and she tried seven years to have me. I was on fertility drug, but she said she got married at eighteen and she said that all she wanted was to be a mum. And when she had me, me two brothers followed on, they were, you know, just come naturally. And then when we got to a, you know, an age where we were a bit more independent, I was, I think it was about twelve. And she sat us down and said, she helped out with the local hospital and the church and they done, you know, like took kids on holiday that couldn't go on holiday.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  And they, so they helped out with that. So then they decided that they would like. Foster and do respite care. So they sat the three of us down and said, this is what we would like to do, but we would only like to do it if yous wanna do it as well. And we were all like, yeah, yeah, we were obviously, we were used to having kids in the house, you know, cousins and friends. So we were, we didn't. Bat an eyelid, it was just normal to us. But it started when we'd have, you know, children with disabilities. We'd have, when they done the fostering, we picked up newborn babies from the hospital. And I thought it was great. I was playing mum, pushing prams and it was, you know, it was special what they done.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  And at the time, we just thought they were just babysitting, you know, but as we got older, we realised that you've got to be a certain type of person to do that and to give your time.

• 44:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you feel differently about it now, being a mum of your own kids. It takes someone incredibly special to be able, to have the capacity to take on other kids. And kids that need desperate care, might have emotional issues. It's amazing.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  But they always said that, you know, they, they knew how much they longed for children. And, you know, these babies or children that were in foster care, they were going to someone that, you know, longs. So when they left us, you know, we was, we got attached to some of them and we said, you know, it wasn't fair that they were leaving us. And then their, their explanation was, well, they're going to someone who really, you know, wants them and has longed for them. And so we would accept that, you know, we accepted that, that they're going to a family that can't, can't have kids or you just really wanna adopt. So, yeah, it was, it was a nice message. And then we got Rosie.

• 45:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  She came along, she came and it was a long term fostering and she was, she was nearly two. And my mum said, we're gonna have this little girl for a bit longer than what we've had the other ones. And she came and straight away, everyone just fell in love with her. And at this stage, she could, she could crawl, she could. But we just thought, you know, she'd. She'd been neglected and she couldn't do the things that kids her age were able to do because she never got shown that by, you know, who she was with. And then we, it was me mum really, me mum, like I said, there's more to it than this. She'd been around a lot of kids with disabilities and illnesses and stuff. So she said, there's something else.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  So then she went, you know, and asked questions and researched and then it ended up being a genetic syndrome called Rhett syndrome. And then we knew, you know, what was expected of that. And the down, you know, it's a lot of downsides to it. But she, you know, she was a big inspiration to us all. She, you know, she had a smile on her face and not just to our family, to just people who met her. You know, people would take away, you know, the whole thing of you, you're just someone worse often. Oh, and she's battling and she's in pain, but she's still got a smile on her face and she's still enjoying life. And no, she was special and, you know, she's still, my kids all, only Kai met, but doesn't remember.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  But they talk about her as if she's still, you know, they spent, you know, a lifetime with her. Because that's how we've dealt with it, speaking in the family and, you know, just keeping her spirit alive.

• 47:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, she, she was your sister. She ended up very much being your sister and that beautiful relationship that you all had with her. I mean, obviously when there's a diagnosis, you know roughly that there's going to be some pain and heartache along the way. She died when she was 14. I mean, how did that hit you guys? How did that impact you as a family? Even though you, I don't think it takes away any of the grief, knowing, I really don't.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  No, it's, you know, it, you know, you can say it prepares you in a way. She had, you know, a few bad stents before that, where she'd been in hospital. And we didn't know whether, you know, it was going to get worse or, but she battled through it and she came out. There are a number of Christmases we spent in, you know, in hospital. It always seemed to be, you know, her immune system went down in the winter and she got chest infections. And so she always seemed to be in for long times over the winter periods and especially Christmas. So we all used to go, you know, Christmas and spoiler and, and yeah, that was, and it was, you know, it was a hard family situation as well because.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  You know, you don't want to be spending your Christmas Day in hospital, but we done anything for it. And that was, you know, that's no matter what, we were there. No, it doesn't take away the pain, no one. But you can prepare you yourself in a way that it's going to happen at some point. It's going to happen to everyone at some point in life, but at an early age, that's the thing to, you know, it's hard to accept.

• 48:40Fearne Cotton?

  How did your parents get through that? Because that's a hell of a thing to go through.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  They, yeah, they, they struggled, you know, they struggled, but, you know, they've always put on a brave face for, for everyone else. But, you know, the amount of times where I've heard, you know, them crying and, you know, going to bed at night. And it's, you know, it's not nice to, to hear, but that's when they're releasing their, you know, their, their sorrows and. But no, they had, they did have bereavement counselling and that was all through the hospice she went to, which is a fantastic setup. Because they take everything in their hands and make it as comfortable as possible for the child, for the families. And they'll continue until forever if you needed it or, you know, until you feel okay.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  And every year, the hospice, it put on a remembrance service where we all go and, you know, let off balloons. And it's, yeah, it's, it's really, you know, it's just so supportive for all them families. And, but no, it's, it is, it's, it's hard to lose anyone but a child, you know, as a parent, I think that's even harder.

• 49:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you can't get your head around it. It's, it just feels all wrong and very, very tricky to navigate. And as you say, you know, that support and care is essential for families going through that grief.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  And, you know, I've always said, you know, the hospital, the children's hospital that she went to was unbelievable as well. Always made us feel welcome, always, you know, I had the time, they'd always entertain him as well where they could. And, and what the hospice, the hospice used to do, respite, where, you know, they, they could stay over and give the parents a break. And they've done. Lots of stuff for siblings and that's, that's important because having a, a child with, you know, disabilities, the parents are, it's twenty four seven.

• 50:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  And the parents spend a lot of time. So as I said before, where I like to spread my time amongst the kids, it's hard for, for parents who've got children who've got illnesses. So I think where the hospice has come on board, they allow the parents to have a break to then give the other siblings support. And, you know, you know, even if it's just a day out somewhere and give them attention.

• 51:00Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. It's so important. It's so important. How do you think you deal with stress? Cause that, you know, we, I've, as we've said, heard you say a lot that you crack on, you get on with it. Grief, slightly different flavour. That's something that you've got to deal with probably for life.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:17Fearne Cotton?

  But stress, when it hits you, we all deal with it differently. I probably am prone to having a bit of a tantrum. Like I'll just freak out and I'm quite loud about everything and I just, it all spills out and quite explosive. How do you deal with stress?

• 51:34Speaker 02

  It depends on what type of stress it is, you know, like stress within the, you know, overload of, you know, say homework and stuff. And that's, I wouldn't even say that's stress. That's just chaos in the house. I, you know, I can snap sometimes, but I've always tended to, you know, emotional stress. I've always kept it in. And I, I know I talk, I, I say what I have to say, but there is times where I've just thought, I don't need to offload on someone else and give them my stress. So until I feel it's the right time to then offload and, you know, or I, sometimes it goes away and I deal with it myself.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  But I don't, I've always said, I hate putting other people in a situation where they've got their stress as well. I don't want to offload it on them. But you know that, you know, that you know, the people, if you've got a close knit family and friends group, you know, the people you can offload on. You know, the people who are going through times where they don't need your stress. So keep it in for now and then you'll tell them when you, or if you want.

• 52:38Fearne Cotton?

  Um. I'm not that disappointed.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  I would say I am a more of a quiet. If it's personal, like, and emotional stress to do with me, you know, if it's stress off someone else, I'll let them know.

• 52:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  If they're causing me stress.

• 52:54Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you went through the most stressful time of your life with the court case and that was all consuming. You can't really think of much else when you're going through something like that and there's the public eye watching the whole thing play out too. Were you able to deal with that sort of on your own during that time?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  That was, that was a really stressful time. And to be honest with you, like now, I've put it all behind me. I've done, you know, I've, I've released that stress and I think, you know, I just, I'm just looking forward and not dwelling on that. Again, going back to a support group and that has always been my friends and family. I think, you know, if I didn't have them, maybe I mightn't have got through it. But I did. And, and also as we went back at the beginning to, you know, telling the truth and carrying on and getting on with it, I think that was part of getting through all that stress and that time. But now I'm in a better place now.

• 53:52Fearne Cotton?

  Good.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  And it's, yeah, it was, it was, it was difficult, but I'm in a much better, I'm more present. And that's where I feel like I've got more time to give, you know, to the children, more time to think about myself and also to, to go back to work and do projects and, which is, is good. I did walk out the door this morning and one of my kids said, "Do you actually live here?" And I was like, because I've gone through a period of not doing much to then obviously doing quite a few things at the one time. And I was like, "You met, what do you mean?" He was like, "Why are you going out again today?"

• 54:28Fearne Cotton?

  Doing something for me, mate.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  But that was because I left before they go to school. I try and do a lot, you know, a lot of it I try and do close to home. But this morning I had to leave before school, but they do, they get comfort of me dropping them off at school.

• 54:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Knowing that, yeah. But this morning I couldn't. So that was what I got back was, "Do you actually live here?"

• 54:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Oh, thanks, mate. Yeah, I've just actually grown you and brought you up.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:52Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, what are you looking forward to? You're going to turn 40 in two years?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:56Fearne Cotton?

  How are you feeling about that? Who is Colleen at 40?

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Do you know what, I don't really think of age, I think, you know, I think as long as you feel young and able to do things, I think age, you know, obviously it's, people say it's just a number, but no, I don't, saying that, when I got to thirty, I did have a bit of a I remember being on holiday just before my thirtieth birthday and a bit of anxiety set in, but I don't know why, it was strange, it was like, am I, is this because I'm turning thirty, or is this just, I don't know, it was weird.

• 55:32Fearne Cotton?

  I think because we're told that it's got this weight and this meaning when you move into a new decade. Forty, you know, what does that even mean? It's such a strange one to get your head around and am I doing the things that I want to be doing? And you start questioning everything.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I think, you know, just, you know, want the kids to to still be happy and successful in what they're doing and, you know, they're all going down different paths and enjoying different things, which is, is good. I would like to be, you know, still active and just, yeah, still have a happy house and still have a happy madhouse.

• 56:10Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly. I mean, one, your eldest is going into the football world, knowing the pitfalls, knowing how the press work, have you had to have a chat with him about that, or is it too early?

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Well, do you know what, the academies, who is at an academy at the minute, they are really good with all that. So we have workshops all the time around social media, around things that you should be doing and shouldn't be doing, nutrition. So I think obviously the way the world's gone, social media mad, they prepare them at a younger age now. Wayne didn't have any of that, you know, it was not the case at the time, but now they do and it's all, you know, if you put something up now, you might regret it when you're older, if you do become a public figure. And we've had them chats as well. I think it's important that you lay the rules down earlier than later because it becomes a natural thing to them then.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  But no, he's doing well, you know, he's still young, but he's, you know, he's doing well at school as well, so he's like, oh. You know, I don't know whether I'm gonna stay on. I was like, no, you are staying on. You are staying on. He's, yeah, I just think you've always got to have a backup. I've seen him for the football world because, you know, we was introduced to it really early. I've seen unfortunate situations where boys have thought that they're gonna get into, you know, the first team and then it's just all gone downhill and they haven't got into a team, then they're left and they're having to start again really because they've left school. You know, they're going to do an apprentice somewhere and I would just like my boys to have a bit of a backup.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  And like Kai now, he's doing, he loves Spanish, which I said, you know, that could take you places and you could do, even if it, you're not a football player, you could get into football in some other way and, you know, if you've got a language, even better.

• 57:57Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  So all he has now at the minute is Spanish rap.

• 58:02Fearne Cotton?

  Spanish rap? How niche.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  So he's asked, can he go to a concert for this, I forget what his name is, something beginning with M, Spanish rapper.

• 58:13Fearne Cotton?

  Wow, I like this. What a niche hobby. I'm into it. Well, I know, as we've discussed, you've got your four boys to go and you've probably got homework to deal with, maybe Spanish rap. So thank you so much for being on the podcast and it's just been so lovely having a catch up with you.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's been great to talk to you. Thank you very much.

• 58:36Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, thanks, Colleen. I really enjoyed that. What a lovely human you are and how you juggle it all. I have no idea. It was so lovely to chat to Colleen, just a ray of sunshine. Are you following us on Instagram? We're over on at Happy Place Official. That is the place where we can carry on this conversation during the week. If there's something that really jumped out in that conversation that you want to talk about, if there's a comment that you have or a story of your own you want to share, or you just want to see other Pinocchio scenes goings on at Happy Place, that's where you can see it, over on our Happy Place Instagram. I'll look forward to chatting to you there. I also love chatting to Colleen about the gorgeous fostering her parents did.

• 59:17Fearne Cotton?

  If you want to know more about foster care, if that is a subject you're interested in, we've done some lovely episodes on foster care. The episode with Ashley John Baptiste is so special. And just fully, deeply emotional. And also the brilliant Lem Sissé, who's one of my favourite writers and poets, who has a lot to say on the matter. There'll be links in the show notes for those two. All right, I'm back here next week. But until then, a massive thanks again to Colleen, to the producer, Anushka Tate, at Happy Place Studios, and the biggest thanks of all to you. I love you loads.

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