151. Dr. Brian Mogen: CTO of Hapbee Discusses the Science of Biohacking Sleep

Most people struggle to fall asleep fast — tossing and turning for hours. What if you could trick your body into deep sleep without popping pills? In this episode with Dr. Brian Mogen, we discuss this game-changer device! It’s called Hapbee — a wearable that beams compound signals like melatonin into your body. This isn’t just cool science — it’s practical. Imagine slipping on a necklace, hitting a sleep setting, and drifting off in minutes. Want better sleep without the downsides of meds? Check out Hapbee — it’s like biohacking your brain with a push of a button. HAPBEE - FEEL BETTER & PERFORM AT YOUR BEST: https://bit.ly/4a6glfo Join the Ultimate Human VIP community and gain exclusive access to Gary Brecka's proven wellness protocols today!: https://bit.ly/4ai0Xwg Connect with Brian Mogen: Website: https://bit.ly/4a6glfo YouTube: https://bit.ly/4hI3su3 Instagram: https://bit.ly/41ZuLu7 Facebook: https://bit.ly/41WHcXv TikTok: https://bit.ly/4hKhPhB X.com: https://bit.ly/4iTDgy9 LinkedIn:https://bit.ly/41YIUYq Thank you to our partners: H2TABS - USE CODE “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4hMNdgg BODYHEALTH - USE CODE “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: http://bit.ly/4e5IjsV BAJA GOLD - USE CODE "ULTIMATE10" FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3WSBqUa EIGHT SLEEP - SAVE $350 ON THE POD 4 ULTRA WITH CODE “GARY”: https://bit.ly/3WkLd6E COLD LIFE - THE ULTIMATE HUMAN PLUNGE: https://bit.ly/4eULUKp WHOOP - GET 1 FREE MONTH WHEN YOU JOIN!: https://bit.ly/3VQ0nzW MASA CHIPS - GET 20% OFF YOUR FIRST ORDER: https://bit.ly/40LVY4y VANDY - USE CODE “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: https://bit.ly/49Qr7WE PARKER PASTURES - PREMIUM GRASS-FED MEATS: https://bit.ly/4hHcbhc AION - USE CODE “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4h6KHAD CARAWAY - USE CODE “ULTIMATE” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3Q1VmkC HEALF - GET 10% OFF YOUR ORDER: https://bit.ly/41HJg6S BIOPTIMIZERS - USE CODE “ULTIMATE” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4inFfd7 RHO NUTRITION - USE CODE “ULTIMATE15” FOR 15% OFF: https://bit.ly/44fFza0 Watch the “Ultimate Human Podcast” every Tuesday & Thursday at 9AM EST: YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RPQYX8 Podcasts: https://bit.ly/3RQftU0 Connect with Gary Brecka: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3RPpnFs TikTok: https://bit.ly/4coJ8fo X.com: https://bit.ly/3Opc8tf Facebook: https://bit.ly/464VA1H LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4hH7Ri2 Website: https://bit.ly/4eLDbdU Merch: https://bit.ly/4aBpOM1 Newsletter: https://bit.ly/47ejrws Ask Gary: https://bit.ly/3PEAJuG Timestamps: 00:00 ​Intro of Show 00:53 Dr. Brian Mogen’s Background 01:56 Novel Applications for New Implants in the Spinal Cords 03:44 Science Behind Hapbee Technologies 21:51 Recording the Molecular-Level Energy 24:15 Developing the Technology into Consumer Products 34:40 Sleep as the Core in their User Base 38:00 Improving Sleep Quality with the Hapbee Devices 41:04 Visual Design of the Devices 43:53 Compounds Utilised in the Technology 50:00 Making an Impact with the Hapbee Technology (on Sleep, Mood, Performance) 54:48 Award Received for being the Most Effective Tool for Suicide Prevention 59:38 Advancement of the Base Research 1:02:06 Bio-Stacking Definition and Practices 1:10:10 Connect with Dr. Brian Mogen and Hapbee 1:11:40 ​Final Question: “What does it mean to you to be an Ultimate Human?” The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka Podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast is at the user’s own risk. The Content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such conditions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Chemotherapy is really awful for people to experience, especially for brain cancer, because you need to take such high doses that it can get through the blood-brain barrier. Well, here's a technology that can pass through the blood-brain barrier.

• 0:12Gary Brecka?

  It seems to me, too, the applications are so vast, especially for addiction, for example. Have you looked at any implications for addictions like smoking, vaping?

• 0:21Speaker 00

  We're starting to look into veterans' health being integrated as part of their treatment plan of not being able to sleep or struggling with alcohol or other addictive problems.

• 0:31Gary Brecka?

  In terms of the sleep realm, there's people that struggle with sleep. Talk about some of the compounds that you have for sleep and what you're seeing in the community that's using these so far.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  There's kind of two areas that we've really seen improvement in, and surprisingly, one.

• 0:57Gary Brecka?

  Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka, where we go down the road of everything: anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today's guest is a fascinating guest. You know, when I was using his technology, my wife and I have been using it for quite some time. My staff has been using it for quite some time. You might have seen it on my Instagram. I really wanted to go down the rabbit hole of the science. And so I contacted the company and they said, "We'll bring the scientists in. We'll fly them in. Put them on your podcast. You can ask them whatever questions you want about the origin of this technology, which I think you're going to find fascinating." But first of all, welcome to the podcast, Dr. Brian Mogen. Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:41Gary Brecka?

  I forgot to even introduce you. But you're a distinguished biomedical engineer with a strong foundation in neural engineering and biomedical sciences. What I found fascinating when I was digging into your background was that you earned your PhD. In brain-computer interfaces from University of Washington.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:59Gary Brecka?

  This is the first time I've ever, I didn't even know that was a thing. No offense.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  There aren't that many of us.

• 2:06Gary Brecka?

  There's not that many of you. And you focused on translational neuroscience, microfluidics, and electronics hardware contributing to advancements in neural implants and brain-computer interface technologies. And the first thing that came to mind was this like, brain implant that Elon Musk is working on, that, which some people have actually already done this.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  There, yeah, there are human beings with those implants right now. And I spent a long time, almost eight years, studying all the different ways that you could record brain activity, decode it, signal process it, and turn it into action for electrical stimulation, for either changing the way the brain was wired to itself, or controlling how your hands and arms move through stimulating your spinal cord.

• 2:53Gary Brecka?

  So, I mean, before we talk about the stuff that really freaks me out, I mean, let's talk a little bit about the implications for something like that in spinal cord injuries, which is where a lot of your research was focused, right?

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was on applied, or novel applications for new implants in the spinal cord. And I think the big takeaway that a lot of people miss there is the vast, vast majority of spinal cord implants aren't a full transaction. There aren't that many people that get a full cut through their spinal cord. There's a lot of residual function. So we were looking at approaches for how can you harness and retrain and use neuroplasticity approaches that work in the brain and in neurons in a dish? How can you take that into spinal cord stimulation to strengthen?

• 3:42Gary Brecka?

  So, you know, in the spinal cord, I think of it like, Thousands, literally millions of tiny, tiny, tiny little hairs kind of all bound together and they're sending information, you know, back and forth through the brain. Some of it's motor, some of it's coordination, some of it's sensory. But, but you're saying that there's some of these pathways, let's say, that could get damaged that deal with motor activity? And you could use a sensory pathway to maybe send motor information?

• 4:10Speaker 00

  Or even the motor pathway doesn't get damaged 100%. It gets damaged 25% and that's enough to affect the way you can walk or the way you can use your hands. And you can take the remaining 70% and people are doing spinal cord, stem cell implants to try and regenerate and improve that. But our, our thinking was, can you also use electrical stimulation to just retrain what is still functional? And take that and enhance the functionality kind of?

• 4:41Gary Brecka?

  Is this kind of the, and just by way of background, you know, my personal story with his technology is, is really fascinating. So I'll just throw it out there. I was in Dubai several months ago on an unrelated trip and the, one of the sheikhs of Bahrain, Sheikh Nasser contacted me and said, hey, there's a group over there that happens to be in Dubai right now that I want you to meet with and, and there's, you know, this really interesting technology that I've been looking at. I'd love for them to come to your hotel while, while you're in Dubai. And if, you know, Sheikh of Bahrain calls you and asks you to take a meeting, you know, you kind of take the meeting.

• 5:25Gary Brecka?

  He's an amazing guy, by the way, and Sheikh Nasser, if you're listening, shout out to you, brother. He's a two-time world champion in this incredibly difficult distance horse race. His family's amazing family. He's crazy about human performance. He actually puts more technology into his horses, I think, than he does into humans. I, I, I like joke with him and I'm like, man, when I, when I die, I want to come back as one of your horses, man. Olympic swimming pools and altitude sleeping rooms and red light mats they drape them over and all organic diets. And like, it's amazing how they're pushing the limits of horse racing over there. So I take this meeting and I'm with a, you know, partner of mine from the Middle East

• 6:08Gary Brecka?

  and I happen to have my CFO with me. And This gentleman shows up and he's got this necklace that you've got around your neck right here. And he proceeds to tell me this story about, and I'm gonna bastardize it, so the reason why you're here is to clear this up. That sounds good. Essentially that, you know, this company has technology and that has isolated these different frequencies that mimic certain compounds in the human body. And, and the long and short of it is, they could mimic caffeine. They could mimic the effects of pain medication. They could mimic the effects of adenosine in the brain, or melatonin in the brain,

• 6:50Gary Brecka?

  without putting these compounds into the body, but allowing the body to receive this signal as if it were under the influence of one of these compounds. Now, I could, again, overgeneralize, I could see your PhD brain is like, that's not exactly correct, but I'm telling the story, it's my podcast, so, I'm just kidding. So we sit down, and he puts these, I put one on, my partner puts one on, and my CFO puts one on. And, and he goes, "Listen, I'm just gonna dial up this sleep setting, this deep, deep sleep setting." And he starts running this deep sleep setting. I kid you not, within 60, maybe 90 seconds, my CFO is sitting in the lobby of the, of

• 7:33Gary Brecka?

  the Ritz Carlton, in this meeting with us, falling asleep. And, and so, he goes, "You want me to wake you up? I'll, you know, run, I'll run the caffeine setting." So a few minutes later, he turns on this caffeine setting, and it shuts off the impulses for the influence of things like melatonin, and I think it was THC, and it starts the impulse for the influence of caffeine. And he literally woke right up. And then, the rubber really hit the road, because he set it on a THC setting. My CFO, if you're listening, Isaac, I love you, brother, but you're going under the bus on this one. And he's sitting there in this meeting, we're in Dubai, very formal meeting, we've met

• 8:18Gary Brecka?

  for the first time, he's got this thing around his neck, and he starts running this THC setting, and a few minutes later, he starts having a fit of giggles, and his eyes look watery, and he takes a fist and he kind of bumps my partner in the, in the leg and goes, "You gotta try this, bro." Which is not how my CFO speaks.

• 8:38Gary Brecka?

  And then he started apologizing, he started laughing and they shut it back off, turned on the caffeine setting and he was bright, you know, like wide awake again. Had I not seen that, or if somebody had told me that the technology could do that before this meeting, I probably wouldn't have taken the meeting. Just given the limited information that I have and the fact that like my BS meter would have been up so high. But I witnessed it firsthand. And then, of course, my, all of us were like, how do we get one of those? How do we get one of those? And we, we all threw them around our neck, we started playing with them for the next day. But I flew home two days later from Dubai and there's a deep sleep setting on there that's, and you can actually set the number of hours and for deep sleep.

• 9:22Gary Brecka?

  And I set it for eight hours. Now, it could be completely coincidence and completely placebo, but I put my seat flat. Um, you know, went to the bathroom, brushed my teeth, did all my stuff, put my eye mask on, I laid down the seat, I turned it on and I woke up eight hours and two minutes later. And even for me, that has my sleep pattern is pretty dialed in, to get eight straight hours of sleep on a plane is completely unheard of. I don't know if I've ever actually slept eight consistent hours without waking. So something's going on. So I would really love to talk about, you know, how your background led to the genesis of this technology, because we were talking before the podcast about, you always start out to do one thing with a technology and then you start finding out all of these other

• 10:06Gary Brecka?

  really interesting verticals and horizontal places where it has application, so.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's a great transition, because a lot of my, you know, before this job, research at the startup also is, I was thinking a lot in terms of inputs and outputs. You can read the brain activity, decode it and then stimulate the sensory output or the motor output. And I think we can carry that concept through to what Happy is doing now.

• 10:32Gary Brecka?

  And that's what this device is called. It's called a HAPBE, H A P B E.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  H A P B E. Happy Technologies. Yeah, so we've, we've been around a few years, but the technology itself actually has come through several stages of development and. Tens, eight, almost eighty million dollars in, in funding over fifteen years of development in a few different stages.

• 10:56Gary Brecka?

  Wow. And this start in spinal cord injury.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally, totally unrelated.

• 11:03Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  The technology itself, and, and I'm one of the co-founders of the Happy Building Consumer Facing Neckband, where I'm not one of the original inventors fifteen years ago. I wasn't that old.

• 11:17Gary Brecka?

  Okay. Yeah, you look pretty young.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was, I was, uh, I'm not gonna do the math on how old I was fifteen years ago.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  But yeah, there was a, a group in the US Navy, stationed in, in California, that was using this new technology called squid magnetometry, uh, superconducting quantum infarometry devices. Basically a way of measuring the smallest magnetic fields that we can measure.

• 11:48Gary Brecka?

  Inside of?

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Just in, in general, you take a, a set of electronics, you have to get liquid helium and cool the sensors down to absolute zero, so you can record the tiniest little movement. It's a, a quantum sensing device, and, and they had built these arrays that they were using to try and sense military targets moving around in the Pacific Ocean, like really shielded nuclear subs, battleships, thousands and thousands of miles away.

• 12:16Gary Brecka?

  Hmm, cuz I've heard, I've heard somebody say that, you know, even though all these submarines and even, even, you know, warships have all of this technology to conceal themselves, they know where they all are. Like, they probably know where all of our enemy subs are off of our coast, even if the enemy thinks that they're shielded from us. Has this got the kind of technology?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was, it was technology in that realm of trying to detect the tiny magnetic fields you give off. A, a magnetic field is created every time an electron moves. So as even, you know, these, these fields are very tiny, uh, they're always present. There's not a lot of shielding you can, can do from that. And the core technology itself was being applied in, in a military application, and, and kind of this splinter group of research scientists in that group said, well, We're looking for really big things really far away. What if we rebuilt the machine slightly and instead looked for really tiny things really close up? We know that the electron cloud of drugs is fairly consistent, right?

• 13:18Speaker 00

  If you think of a drug molecule moving, your high school biology ball and stick model is pretty rigid, but in actuality, it's a jiggling, twisting, flexing cloud of electrons moving.

• 13:32Gary Brecka?

  I remember those, you know, we all played with this stick and ball model in chemistry. And I guess that's just a way of getting us to understand, you know, molecular structure at its rudimentary level. But I agree with you, these things are very fluid and they're, you know, electrons are spinning and protons are spinning and you've got an atom and a nucleus and there's a lot of activity going on.

• 13:55Gary Brecka?

  And, you know, it's not a static model, you know, we would take the little sticks out and plug it into another molecule and build molecules. But what you're saying is this electromagnetic field or this field that these electrons are creating, that's detectable.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Exactly. Yeah, they're, they're, in the history of techno, or in the history of Happy, there have been kind of two big scientific, I would say like inflection points. So the first breakthrough being, okay, we've rebuilt this recording machine in the lab. It's really fancy, it can detect some of the smallest magnetic fields ever recorded. What happens if we put a drug or a compound or a molecule in a biological saline? Put it in a biolog, a lifelike situation and apply a voltage and line them all up.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  So basically you can line up all the molecules in solution to a certain concentration and then record.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Some of that fuzzy weird movement. How with detectors very sensitive, can you get unique recordings from different compounds?

• 15:14Gary Brecka?

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• 15:59Gary Brecka?

  Chloe says it best, "In honor of my mom and for the health of all, I guarantee Parker Pastures meat will always be flavorful, nutrient-dense, and healing for both you and the land." You can order grass-fed and grass-finished beef, lamb, bison, as well as pasture-raised pork and chicken to be delivered straight to your door next week. She delivers to all 50 states, so why settle for mystery meat from the store when you can eat meat that nourishes your body and restores the earth? Visit ParkerPastures.com today and you'll get 25 bucks off your order. That's ParkerPastures.com and get $25 off your first order. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. So just to hyper-simplify it, you have a solution and let's say you dissolve melatonin

• 16:43Gary Brecka?

  or you dissolve caffeine or you dissolve CBD or any other compound. You're looking at the variance between what the solution resonated at initially and what the field is like after you add this compound. And you're saying that's the frequency of melatonin, that's the frequency of caffeine?

• 17:03Speaker 00

  And I think an important distinction is we're not looking at like a specific frequency. It's not melatonin is 5 Hz and CBD is 10 Hz or 200. It's each of them is a very complex waveform. I think the... You're not listening to a single tone in these recordings. It's an entire symphony that's capturing parts of all of that movement. And exactly what parts of the molecule the recordings are, we don't actually know yet. But you're getting unique, very complex recordings that are unique to each.

• 17:42Gary Brecka?

  That's what I was gonna ask you. They're unique. So repeatedly, over and over and over and over and over again, these complex recordings are identical. This fuzzy noise is identical when you have.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Yes, every time you record melatonin, it's the same fuzzy, fuzzy noise, but it's different from the CBD fuzzy noise. So it's not quite as clean as the nice sine waves you see in like neural entrainment products. Or the model you have. It'd be nice if it was, it was that way, but it's not. So step one was really just being able to record and see in the signal processing world that you're getting different recordings in this machine from different compounds.

• 18:25Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  That's, that was a nice little scientific jump.

• 18:31Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, I mean, that's massive.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  And then the next piece was, well, what happens if you can build a correctly shaped antenna that can replay that recording? And again, you know, think inputs and outputs. We can record the compound, but what happens when we project it?

• 18:48Gary Brecka?

  How do you transmit it?

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Yes, and, and for a large class of, of molecules, non-covalent interactions, if you think back to high school biology, that, that ball and stick model, the receptor and ligand, the lock and key, when they go in together and interact and something happens, when these non-covalent interactions, the lock and the key never actually touch. They just trade electrons in the right pattern. And if we've now got this recording of a, of a compound that we know from traditional cellular biology methods is a non-covalent interaction usually, what happens if we replay that field over biology? Does it respond as if the drug were there?

• 19:33Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  So that was the, the second piece was, okay, now that we're projecting these with a correctly shaped, sized, right amplitude, covering the right biology field.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  Can you start seeing biological outcomes and effects?

• 19:50Gary Brecka?

  You say field, it's not like a speaker, which is sort of this unidirectional sound wave, right? It oscillates, creates a sound wave. We perceive that as a tone. You know, this is, this is actually a moving, really kind of a messy field. It's sort of, you know, the atomic energy in there, for lack of better words, which is unique to certain compounds. You're actually recording that really fuzzy, staticy kind of, I mean, I remember being at dinner with one of your co-founders and he was telling me how someone that had some either ham radio experience or radio experience was, happened to be in

• 20:35Gary Brecka?

  the lab and was listening to some of these recordings. And some of the team thought that the recordings were not being picked up. And what he said was, no, that, that static that you're hearing, that is the, what we're looking for. That's the field that we're trying to measure.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and we're, these recordings are being done very close to the noise floor and the, on the signal processing side of what we're doing. There's all sorts of techniques to try and clean up these kind of very messy recordings to make them better and better.

• 21:10Gary Brecka?

  So in a lab, you're taking a solution or something and you are introducing a compound and then you are recording the electromagnetic smog, if you will, that that compound is releasing. And that electromagnetic smog, and I'm making up my own words for the, for the record, because I don't have a PhD in biomedical engineering. But this electromagnetic smog, which is unique to that compound, you can not only record it, but then you can replay it.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 21:43Gary Brecka?

  Exactly as it occurs. Because if you played it any different, it wouldn't be that same electromagnetic field.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  It wouldn't be unique to that compound.

• 21:50Gary Brecka?

  That's gotta be, because first of all, the devices that would pick that up is one thing, but the devices that would retransmit at that, at those levels, to me, seems like you had to invent that side of the equation, too.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And actually, the, the building the hardware and the product I'm wearing right now, we have two products we've built around this for actually. Being able to transmit these products. The, the physics of the transmission are much easier than the physics of the recording.

• 22:20Gary Brecka?

  Oh, wow.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a, basically, all, all of our products are engineered to have an antenna that creates the right shape and the right amplitude. So your speaker analogy earlier was, was kind of close on, on the, the volume is an important factor. It's got to be within a fairly narrow range, but also the shape of the field where the volume is correct.

• 22:47Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 00

  Is also important. So just kind of building out the electronics around creating the right size fields in the right places so that they cover the relevant parts of your body while you're using them.

• 23:02Gary Brecka?

  What's, what seems, what's wild to me is that a recording of a compound's field replayed into the body has the same effect as the presence of that molecule. Is that, is that?

• 23:20Speaker 00

  It's, I think the key point that it, that is a wild thing to say a little bit, but also remember, we know in these non-covalent interactions, the lock and the key don't actually touch.

• 23:34Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  Right? They, they just trade electrons in the right pattern to trade some information.

• 23:39Gary Brecka?

  And then that exerts.

• 23:40Speaker 00

  And that, that is what unlocks the receptor, it changes the, the conformation. And the vast majority of the interactions in our body, unless we're looking at, you know, metabolizing something and physically breaking a bond to, to make energy, are non-covalent. Most of our signal pathways are, are non-covalent interactions.

• 24:00Gary Brecka?

  Hmm. So you, you can influence the same level of interaction, whether you have the presence of the real compound, or you have the presence of the recording of that compound.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  That's what we continue to see.

• 24:12Gary Brecka?

  Wow. So, so let's take this one step further. I don't know if you guys are following this, but I'm, I am fascinated by this because the idea that you could take a compound like melatonin, or even caffeine. And record its molecular energy, for lack of better words, and then replay that molecular energy into the body and have cellular structures and, and, you know, gateways that are in the cell wall and the cell membrane, and even probably more importantly, the mitochondria, which has its own cell membrane. To play these recordings at this atomic level or at this, you know, molecular level,

• 24:55Gary Brecka?

  and have those locking key mechanisms respond as if the presence of that compound is there is fascinating to me because, you know, the implications to me, just like your head wants to just and explode because, you know, the, the issues, for example, with narcotic painkillers, for example, aren't the effect that it's exerting at the time. It's the, all of the codependencies and the addictive cycles and, you know, the waste elimination pathways to get a lot of these compounds out of the body because, as you know, cellular metabolism is a really dirty process.

• 25:33Gary Brecka?

  And when you introduce things into a human body that, you know, cells are influenced by, at some point, that influence not only diminishes, but it turns into other products that the body now has to get rid of, right? I mean, you pour gasoline into your engine, you run your car, now it's exhaust, it's vapor, it's going to the atmosphere. It's just these, these energies are changing their state.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think there are a couple of points you made that are worth touching on. And in the evolution of the technology, we've seen this also, right? Like, the field is wide open in terms of going through all of the possible ways of showing, replicating every single, like, we're just starting out on that journey. We haven't been around that long. You know, there are multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical companies that...

• 26:26Speaker 00

  Are working on every mechanism of every drug known to man.

• 26:29Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  And we've had to take a very limited subset so that we can kind of get to market and bring people this.

• 26:35Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Bring the technology.

• 26:37Gary Brecka?

  So when did you realize that, because this began as the Department of Defense Technology or Military Technology, I could see why they would want to know where all the submarines are under the ocean. I mean, that's got to be infinitely complex to listen through because the amount of noise between wherever your device is reading it and the object that you're trying to detect. I mean, there's all kinds of fish and water and molecules and, you know, and light and pressure and all kinds of things going on to be able to find these, these sounds and record them or at least identify it as that's a submarine, that's a ship, and that's XYZ.

• 27:21Gary Brecka?

  What point did you, did you think that you had a commercial product that could benefit humanity, like the one that you're wearing right now? And what compounds did you, did you start with? Because I'm just thinking of like you guys sitting around the lab one day and you're like, hey, Stan, we, we isolated melatonin, you guys start putting these things on and everybody's falling asleep or you get stimulated from caffeine. How did, how did it go from being this technology, this recording and transmission device into an actual wearable technology?

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, so first I wasn't around for, for all of that. I got brought in basically at the start of the let's, let's turn it into consumer products. So the origin of the technology really went from we can record these things in, in the lab. Okay. We are starting to see biological effects. What would be a really good candidate for proving the technology out first and foremost? And the road that that group of scientists went down was chemotherapy is really awful for people to experience, especially for brain cancer because you need to take such

• 28:37Speaker 00

  high doses that it can get through the blood brain barrier. Well, here's a technology that in theory we can.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Pass right through the blood brain barrier without you having to take high doses and it's controllable and it's localized and the cellular mechanisms for how those drugs work are fairly well understood. Can we step through recreating the effects of a brain cancer drug and go to market that way? And in the consumer space, so there's a big body of academic research on that, those set of specific pathways. Right. And then the story as it was told to me was one night while they had the machine, it's a very expensive process to cool the machine down and keep it cool. It's not always going. So you do recordings in batches.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  But somebody had brought in some alcohol. So somebody went rogue and decided, well, what if the machine's already on? What if we just? I just have to have some whiskey. What if we just record it? Yeah. So they recorded the alcohol? So they recorded, recorded and then, you know, a couple of weeks later, after the processing, somebody decided, well, we don't really know what's going to happen, but can we just give it a try? Yeah. Play the freak. Go rogue again and Yeah. Give it a try. Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  And it didn't take very long for, for those guys to realize that, oh no, I, I feel a couple of drinks in. Yeah. So five minutes in and

• 30:21Speaker 00

  this is a definitely an alternative to what people are doing right now. Right. That was, that was about the time I had been finishing my PhD. I was doing another startup earlier on in the physical therapy rehab space. And I got a call one day saying, hey, I think we're gonna try and spin this out into a consumer product. You know electronics, you know, a little bit of software, you know, you know, recording stimulation, closed loop technology. You wanna, you wanna come do this?

• 30:59Gary Brecka?

  Were you like fascinated by it?

• 31:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had been following the technology for a little while because it was on, you know, when you look at PEMF, when you look at transcranial magnetic stimulation, when you look at TACS, there's electrical stimuli, there's all these modalities. And here's one that, while it is also magnetic, is very unique. Most of these technologies, right, are fairly single use. Right? When you, when you think of a device for a specific purpose, it's a vagal nerve stimulator for X. There's a protocol for X. If it's on your, if it's on your neck, it's for X. If it's in your ear, it's for Y. If it's mediated through your median nerve on your wrist, it's for Z.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  But there's a, it's a technology platform that, that can be multifunctional, right? The same piece of hardware can be used for multiple different use cases.

• 31:57Gary Brecka?

  Wow. So, so now, someone's in the lab, they, they have some alcohol, they, they record the, well, I keep saying electric smog, for lack of better words. They record this cloud, this field, that is the, the way that the molecule of alcohol is resonating. And then they take that recording and then they, they return that, that recording back into the body and the person is under the influence of alcohol or feels like they're under the influence of alcohol. And when they turn it off, they're no longer under the influence. Because I've actually heard of you guys having parties with these things where you put them over everybody's head.

• 32:42Gary Brecka?

  And everybody gets a little dose of alcohol and everybody's kind of social and buzzing around. And then when it's time to go, you shut it off and give everyone a little caffeine and out the door they go and you're bone sober and your blood alcohol level zero or, or near zero and

• 32:58Gary Brecka?

  You're not under the influence of anything.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, we did a pop-up activation, actually, earlier this year. We ran the world's first completely non-alcoholic bar in Dublin, Ireland.

• 33:12Gary Brecka?

  Literally, people came in, you put this necklace over their head?

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Gave them a Guinness Zero. And our hypothesis was if we can convince them that they're enjoying the sensations, a group of people with a very specific view on how you're supposed to imbibe. If we could get...

• 33:30Gary Brecka?

  Imbibe? Dude, you're not very popular over there. They take their beer very seriously in Ireland.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  If we could convince them

• 33:37Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  that the experience of using Happy alongside, you know, traditional NA beverages was enjoyable. You know, we felt very confident. We can convince anybody.

• 33:52Gary Brecka?

  So how did that go? Did you actually have it at a pub?

• 33:54Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. We took over on the south side of Dublin an NA bar for about 60 days.

• 34:01Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. And then, and I'm just, I'm fascinated by the recruiting process. Were you like, hey, who wants to come in and not get drunk, but get drunk without drinking? And wear this necklace?

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was already a pub that had a strong NA.

• 34:14Gary Brecka?

  I don't see a bunch of burly Irish dudes bearded going, yeah, mate, I want to participate in that one.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  There were certainly people that walked in the door that were very confused.

• 34:23Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  But...

• 34:24Gary Brecka?

  That's wild. So you put all these, you put these Happy devices over everybody's neck. You run the frequency of alcohol. And they felt under the influence. Did you monitor there? Did you give them a questionnaire?

• 34:38Speaker 00

  We did questionnaires before and before and after. And then just, you know, general, did you? What did you feel? Describe it. Did you feel something? How confident were you? And also, did you enjoy the experience also?

• 34:51Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Technology without an application isn't... Really great technology.

• 34:56Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  So.

• 34:57Gary Brecka?

  And then, and when it was all said and done, you shut it off, maybe ran the caffeine five to, to wake them back up, but the, but there, there was no, um, they may have been under the influence of alcohol, but there's no alcohol in their bloodstream. So the, the liver's not processing this, the liver's not turning it into acetaldehyde, their blood's not getting acidic, they're not damaging their brain, they're not going to the vasoconstrictive process, all of the downsides that we have with alcohol, because I think alcohol, like so many other things, um, we're willing to make this exchange, you know, we're going to take some of the bad to get the good. Oh, it makes, you know, it removes my social inhibitions, um, I get it's going to interrupt

• 35:41Gary Brecka?

  my sleep, I'm, I'm going to wake up with a headache tomorrow, but I'm going to have a really good night, you know, um, and you could probably say this for all kinds of things, you know, I'd rather not take Tylenol or ibuprofen because I know it's hard on my liver or hard on my gut microbiome, but the pain is worth the, you know, the, the detriment of the pain is worth, you know, the, the downside that, that some of these compounds have. It is absolutely, I'm still fascinated by this. It is absolutely fascinating to me that you can isolate this electromagnetic smog, for lack of better words, you can impart this, uh, frequency into the body and then the body reacts as though it's under that influence and as soon as you remove it, that influence stops.

• 36:25Gary Brecka?

  Like many of you, the hardest thing for me is to shut off my mind at night when I want to sleep. And it's funny because sometimes I'll wake up tired already thinking of when I'll get back to bed again, but exactly the moment that I lay my head on the pillow, it feels like the machine of crazy what if thoughts has turned back on. Does this happen to you? Let me tell you my new secret to deal with this. You may have heard of magnesium breakthrough by BioOptimizers and how great it is for sleep and promoting calmness and relaxation. What I found out is that the brains behind magnesium breakthrough have taken it to the next level with a product specifically designed for sleep. It's called Sleep Breakthrough and it's been a total game changer for me. Sleep Breakthrough combines the power of magnesium with other natural ingredients to help us fall asleep faster,

• 37:10Gary Brecka?

  stay asleep longer, and actually wake up feeling refreshed. Since I started taking Sleep Breakthrough, I've been waking up feeling rested, energized, and ready to tackle the day ahead. I highly recommend giving Sleep Breakthrough a try, trust me. Visit BiOptimizers, that's B-I-Optimizers.com/ultimate and order now. Oh, and in addition to the discount you'll get by using the promo code ULTIMATE, there are always amazing free gifts with your purchase. That's also why I love shopping at BiOptimizers. Go now to BiOptimizers.com/ultimate to get your Sleep Breakthrough and find out this month's gift with your purchase. Now, let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, and as a natural activation process, there is still a roll-off, right? Most of these pathways are pathways, and when you kick them off, other things happen. So yeah, not zero seconds instant, but in terms of something like caffeine affecting your sleep, because you had coffee at 3 o'clock and it's still in your body at 11:00 PM. We're talking about effect roll-off and users seeing the ability to not recognize sensation anymore and on the order of minutes, single-digit minutes.

• 38:24Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Versus hours and hours.

• 38:28Gary Brecka?

  I mean, so for people that can't sleep, I mean, my wife and I have both been using it. I have been popularizing it just because, number one, I didn't think that people would even believe it. And then secondly, I wanted to use it for a long enough duration of time that I knew it wasn't just placebo, that it was actually having a material effect. One of the things that your team brought over to my house a few weeks ago was a sort of soft mattress form, kind of like this thing. This is actually it. It was larger than this one. And we were in the middle of the meeting during dinner and they walked me back to my bedroom.

• 39:10Gary Brecka?

  And I took my house manager with me and we laid down on this pad and they ran, I think it was adenosine, THC, and melatonin. There was a combination of three things. And within just a few minutes, I could feel it like sinking me, pulling me into the mattress. And I really wanted them to leave and let me go to sleep, but they didn't.

• 39:35Gary Brecka?

  No offense, guys, but um, and, and then they, you know, I put the necklace on, ran the caffeine setting, and I was legitimately back, back awake. So the implications, the potential implications of this are astounding.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  And you, you touched on sleep as kind of the core piece in our user base right now, right? We've, we've broadly taken these recordings. We have seven different compounds there. The, the thought early in the company's idea was like most drugs, the vast majority of drugs, if you take a statin, you don't feel it.

• 40:14Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  Like, how do we, how do we prove to the people who use the product? And how do we build the form factors in a way that matches their daily lives? We have the, the wearable for, for during the day. And then what we actually ended up seeing on the customer journey was that we're going through, okay, what are people actually playing? What are they doing? And to this day, over 70% of the content like played on our, our platform is related to sleep.

• 40:40Gary Brecka?

  Yes, because I mean, sleep is our human superpower and most people really struggle with sleep without getting tranquilized to go to sleep, right? I mean, we're not talking about Zolapine, Nitrate, Napsam, Lunesta, all, all those things, Xanax, that actually just tranquilize you to go to sleep, which I would argue is actually not really sleeping if you look at sleep quality when you're under the influence.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Most professionals agree with that.

• 41:01Gary Brecka?

  Okay. You know, you, you, you, you don't see an improvement of sleep quality. You see a, a duration of not being conscious or aware, if that's what you want to call it. And, you know, they're interpreting that as, as sleep, which I guess is better than not getting any at all. But, um, you know, the idea that you could actually mimic some of these natural compounds. So in terms of the sleep realm, because there's a lot of people that struggle with sleep. And don't want to take sleep medication and also don't like the influence that that it has on them. Sometimes the next morning groggy, exhausted, poor focus, taking, you know, hours to sort of get out of the mud and get your day going.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Don't drive heavy machinery.

• 41:44Gary Brecka?

  Don't drive heavy machinery. So talk about some of the compounds that you have for sleep and what you're seeing in the community that's using these so far because I think a lot of my audience will be very interested in, you know, if I could take this thing on a plane and and lay down on top of it or or even put it in my bed and sleep on it and this can hold me in deep sleep. You know, I'm in, but what what are you using to do that?

• 42:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, so we're, I would say three things have been kind of the the go to stack for people improving their sleep and and the vast majority of our users track their sleep with an Oura ring or a whoop or through Apple help or Google fit. So we're we're seeing pretty impressive increases in in sleep quality across the board, but.

• 42:34Gary Brecka?

  So sweet quality is not just duration that they're in bed. You're saying REM sleep, deep sleep.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Sleep latency.

• 42:41Gary Brecka?

  Sleep latency. Okay.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, I would say there's kind of two areas that we've really seen improvement and and surprisingly one, and this is the evolution of the the company as well was people using CBD or or alcohols and anxiolytic before going to bed. My problem going to sleep isn't while I'm sleeping. It's anti anxiety before I go to bed because I lay there for hours at a time and I can prep myself for getting ready to go to bed. My sleep routine starts well before I lay down on a mattress.

• 43:19Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  So we had users that were sending in customer service tickets saying, well, I've has been great, but like it's really uncomfortable to fall asleep with it.

• 43:29Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Rubberized all day wearable neckband.

• 43:32Gary Brecka?

  Right, right. Well, some of your new iterations, I've seen some in the future, they almost look like neck pendants that you wear. They're they're actually very attractive or, you know, straight pendants, almost almost like jewelry that would go on your shirt. You wouldn't even notice and and maybe somebody that you're talking to wouldn't even notice you were wearing it. And do you wear this thing all the time? Like, you, because when we sat down, you said you were running nicotine. I guess that's for your

• 43:59Speaker 00

  alertness. And I think the other thing we've seen with all of these users is it's very personalized. And that's been the whole, the view on the platform is give users the choice to do the things that they want to help. They want help with, whether it's sleep or not, like my number one use, I will use it to help fall asleep on flights and stay asleep on

• 44:21Gary Brecka?

  It weren't for me on the flight.

• 44:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then the other one is mid afternoon. I live in Seattle and will admit that I have a coffee problem.

• 44:29Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  But in the, in the afternoons, like I also get hit on the afternoon slump very bad. So being able to have an alternative to turn to at one or two o'clock in the afternoon that isn't going to affect my structure of sleep, but keep me focused and awakened and alert.

• 44:51Gary Brecka?

  So if I was able to actually see or view this electromagnetic field, right? Like turn the lights off and with the black light that detect electromagnetic field kind of thing. What would it look like is, is happening around your neck right now? This, it would be a cloud. It's not just a frequency.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, you actually want to hand me that one next to you there?

• 45:10Gary Brecka?

  This one?

• 45:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:11Gary Brecka?

  Okay.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  So the device itself is, is fairly simple. There's some electronics that a light and a button, but like when it's on and creating a projection, it's, it's about seven inches above and below. You can kind of think of it like a volume.

• 45:25Gary Brecka?

  Inside of there.

• 45:26Speaker 00

  So yeah, it's a coil inside here, making a uniform magnetic field that all sees the same

• 45:32Speaker 00

  field amplitude and direction. So we can basically project above and around.

• 45:38Gary Brecka?

  That's going down into my chest and up into my brain.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  Yep, brain, spinal cord and our library of compounds now are. Things that are neuroactive.

• 45:46Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  And like that, that was part of the, the piece, right? There, our sleep pad coil is larger so that it can make its way through your pillow and give you that same level of coverage for melatonin over the course of the night or adenosine as you lay down to help build sleep pressure.

• 46:05Gary Brecka?

  So you, it's, it looks like a giant field like I, I remember, you know, when I was growing up, the coolest thing where there's electrostatic lights. It had like a glass bulb in it, had a bulb in the middle, remember? And had the glass ball around it. I'm dating myself with this and you'd put your hand on it and all the electricity would go to your hand. Was like the coolest thing, you know, in 1988.

• 46:29Gary Brecka?

  And so this is like a, a field, maybe, you know, without all electricity and stuff. But this is a field and you put this field, you put your, you immersed your, your brain and your spinal cord and your, and your chest and your body into this field. And wherever that field is transmitting, your cellular structures in, within that field are responding as if they're exposed to that.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and that's, that's one of the things that's

• 46:56Gary Brecka?

  It's still so fascinating to me.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Important about magnetic fields versus electric fields.

• 47:01Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Right? The, they're two sides of, of the same coin, but the electric fields get attenuated by a whole bunch of stuff. Your, your skin, your skull, the salt water sack that your brain sits in. By the time something on the outside of your head actually puts simulation into your brain, it's been spread out and, and muddled pretty severely.

• 47:22Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Whereas magnetic fields will pass through the blood brain barrier, will pass through bone, will pass through fluid, no problem. Unless you have a giant steel plate in your head.

• 47:33Gary Brecka?

  But the, the, and, and these magnetic fields are the transmission field that you're using to reach the target.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 47:40Gary Brecka?

  Tissue. So what are some of the compounds that you're using for sleep? That you've, that you've now recorded and that you can transmit?

• 47:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the, the, on the sleep side, we're looking at adenosine and melatonin, the hormone for regulating circadian rhythm and sleep wake cycle and adenosine, which is the. Complement of caffeine. In fact, adenosine is the natural version of caffeine. Caffeine blocks adenosine receptors to keep you awake. Adenosine builds over the course of the day to make you feel sleepy in the evenings.

• 48:13Gary Brecka?

  And then caffeine blocks adenosine. One of the reasons why I tell people to actually delay their coffee intake 60 to 90 minutes is to allow that buildup to occur so that you actually have a greater effect from caffeine than doing it sort of, you know, just opening your eyes and whacking back a coffee. You know, giving your, giving those adenosine receptors time to saturate because when caffeine competes with more receptors, it has a more positive effect. But this could have the same effect as caffeine, or does have the same effect as caffeine, without the presence or the downside. So where do you see this technology going? Because, you know, your head explodes when you start thinking of all of the different compounds that it would be incredible to introduce to your cellular biology without

• 48:58Gary Brecka?

  the negative side effects of the processing of those compounds.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, and our, our view on it has been, what can we get people right now? And where, where then does the future go? And, and as I said earlier, the initial focus was seven compounds that when you wear the device, you can feel. Right? Let's start with things that are discernible. And let's start with a product line of things where people can actually use the product today and kind of go from there. So that's why we've got a wearable, we've got a slide in your pillow or under your pillow sleep pad. And like the piece from there next is, is what are the, the tools now that you can

• 49:47Speaker 00

  control this digitally by delivery, but also digitally by?

• 49:53Speaker 00

  All of the factors that you have available to you as part of building a healthy digital habit on your phone, right?

• 50:01Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  You can choose when to use compounds. You can build schedules. You can like, how do we tie this into everyday life and behavior? And we've started with just giving people free rein, control of push play and go. And for me, the future is really coming back to what are the pieces of closing this loop? Right? There are a lot of, especially in the biohacking space, there are a lot of measurement. There's a lot of inputs.

• 50:27Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  We've got the difference of wrist mounted wearables and finger mounted wearables and chest straps and respiration. Like, there are a lot of things we can measure.

• 50:38Gary Brecka?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  There are a lot fewer things that are outputs and closing the loop.

• 50:43Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  And Happy's, you know, I see Happy very much as playing nice with all of these different output and input technologies. How do we take your sleep data and not only tell you what's wrong, right? Like, we could, there's a lot of interpretation of wearable data now, but there's not a lot of actionable output.

• 51:05Gary Brecka?

  Right. And when you say there's not a lot of actionable output, the wearable is saying, here's your sleep score, here's your recovery, here's your strain, in the case of whoop, and I wear whoop. Or your heart rate variability was a little low tonight, your respiratory volume, you know, rate was a little bit of low. So you can't take that data now and create something in real time that would address that. But you're, are you saying that Happy will eventually be able to take input data, highly individualized, right? Like, for my whoop, that says that, you know, I've been bed for X period of time, my heart

• 51:47Gary Brecka?

  rate variability is low, my respiratory rate is low, I haven't been able to get into REM or deep sleep, and it could take that data and potentially redirect it and say, okay, we're going to increase the amount of melatonin or

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Here's a change in timing. Yes, coming soon.

• 52:03Gary Brecka?

  Okay. And you said you have seven compounds now?

• 52:07Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 52:08Gary Brecka?

  That it can effectively mimic and put you

• 52:13Gary Brecka?

  For lack of better words, under the influence of that compound, without that compound being in your body. And what are some of those? You know, sleep, obviously.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  So on the sleep side, melatonin, anadenosine, CBD THC, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and theobromine, the caffeine analog that's in chocolate.

• 52:36Gary Brecka?

  Okay, so what's what's super exciting about that is that, you know, people, there's a process called tacophylaxis in the human body, right? A desensitization response. It's like, you know, you sit down next to a woman who's wearing amazing perfume, and 30 minutes later, you can't smell the perfume. Right? I mean, that desensitization, that tacophylactic response, has dulled your senses to picking up that scent any longer. It's not that she took the perfume off. It's that you don't smell it because you've desensitized. Is there a similar tacophylactic effect where we would either build the tolerance or build the dependency?

• 53:21Gary Brecka?

  Or some kind of desensitization?

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, just because of the way we think the product works. We would expect there to be a little bit of desensitization over long term use and time.

• 53:35Gary Brecka?

  Getting used to it kind of thing. Okay, but no detriment.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  And as soon as you take it up, like this is the perfume you can take off.

• 53:43Gary Brecka?

  Right. Yeah, that you kind of can. So in your mind, what are the great applications for this technology going forward? How are you guys going to make your impact on the world?

• 53:58Speaker 00

  I think we're going to continue to see it jumping through sleep on the consumer side.

• 54:05Gary Brecka?

  Oh, man, my audience is like really interested now.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. Sleep is the one where it's easy for somebody to use the product for 30 days, line up your usage against your sleep latency score or your overall sleep score, and prove to yourself that.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  It's working and it's working for me.

• 54:29Speaker 00

  Broadly speaking, we're also seeing a bunch of applications. Our content is loosely bucketed around sleep, mood and performance.

• 54:37Gary Brecka?

  Sleep, mood and performance.

• 54:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:39Gary Brecka?

  So talk a little bit about what you're doing in each of those categories. You have three essentially settings for sleep and these are three recordings of

• 54:53Gary Brecka?

  compounds that you're then going to play into the body, transmit into the body.

• 54:58Gary Brecka?

  And what specifically are those compounds?

• 55:02Speaker 00

  So in sleep, it's melatonin and adenosine.

• 55:05Gary Brecka?

  Melatonin and adenosine because there's a THC on there too. And I think that's what they added to mine the other night. And that's what like literally made me feel like I'm sinking down on the mattress. And I don't, I don't do any drugs. I don't, you know, don't touch weed and anything like that. It's not that I'm opposed to it or even CBDs. And some people, some people swear by CBDs, you know, for sleep and for pain. But it was a noticeable difference and within just a few minutes of, of, of putting it on. And so now my body feels that I'm under the influence of those compounds. When I wake up, I can just simply shut it off.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  Or you can set it so that it turns off while you're asleep.

• 55:51Gary Brecka?

  Oh, so it actually gets you into sleep and then it's

• 55:53Speaker 00

  Gets you into sleep and you can, can build out the content structure so that you have full control over when and when and where things are broadcast.

• 56:01Gary Brecka?

  Hi guys, Gary here. I want to take a few minutes of your time to invite you to my ultimate human VIP community. This is a private community with front row seats to my most advanced health protocols, exclusive monthly Q and A calls, a private podcast where you can ask my guests and me, your most pressing questions and my own personal wellness blueprints and everything you need to optimize your health. You'll connect with like-minded folks in this community. You'll get firsthand access to cutting edge insights and enjoy special discounts on products that I trust the most. And here's the best part, membership is Just 97 bucks a month, a fraction of the cost my private clients pay for the same deep dive guidance. If you're ready to supercharge your wellness and skip the guesswork,

• 56:43Gary Brecka?

  I'd love for you to join us. Head to theultimatehuman.com/vip. That's theultimatehuman.com/vip right now to become one of my ultimate human VIPs. This is your fast pass to better health. So don't miss it. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. And since your body believes that you're under the influence of whatever compound, is there a chance that you build a tolerance to THC or to CBD or to the pain medication? Um, you know, I always wonder, what about somebody that doesn't drink? Like, I don't drink any longer. I, you know, I drank,

• 57:25Gary Brecka?

  not, not so long ago, but I've just cut it out of my life because of the, the detriments to my physiology. So if I were to use that,

• 57:35Gary Brecka?

  I could experience the effects of alcohol and not have the downside consequences.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  And we, we have seen in, in the user base so far, right? Like, people like me and my own personal example, right?

• 57:46Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  I drink way too much coffee in the morning and, and the caffeine signal is not particularly notable to me because I have a higher caffeine tolerance than,

• 57:57Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  than I so the, we would expect and do continue to see like personal tolerances and, and responses varying just like the source compounds would.

• 58:11Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. I mean, it's, it seems to me too, the, the, the applications are so vast, especially for, um, you know, addiction, for example. Most people are not smoking or vaping because they like smoking or vaping. It's because of the nicotine. Um, and you could, although I'm down the road of all of the positive health benefits on nicotine now, some, some of the nicotine is not even tobacco derived nicotine, but just talking about the compound nicotine.

• 58:41Gary Brecka?

  Have you looked at any implications for? Addictions like, like smoking.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're, we're, we're starting to look into, into that area more where we've seen on, on the mood side has actually been in veterans health. And we've done a bunch of work with a veterans reintegration group out of, just up the street in Florida here on using happy as a on-demand tool when folks who are struggling with reintegration coming, coming back in can turn to a modality to turn on or off a sensation and.

• 59:19Gary Brecka?

  Wow. And how's that going? What do they report when they're, you know, if you have, if you have someone that's addicted to a certain compound and, you know, is getting that addressed, you know, you can actually introduce that compound without any of the negative side effects for them.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and, and provide for compounds, not in our library, an alternative for people to turn to when times are, are tough. We received an award for being the most effective tool for suicide prevention from, from this group that works with very at-risk veterans, the gray team, coming through on, it's just being integrated as part of their treatment plan of, of folks who need a tool to turn to because they're not sleeping. And it wasn't that it was one specific piece. For each person, it was the individual their problems were coming from not being able to sleep or struggling with alcohol or other addictive

• 1:00:16Speaker 00

  problems. And being a tool in the toolkit that you could turn to on-demand and over a guided long period of, of time during reintegration.

• 1:00:26Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27Speaker 00

  Give them the power to really help those folks.

• 1:00:29Gary Brecka?

  So where do you see this going in terms of performance? You know, you, you, you were talking about the three big areas that you guys are trying to address. I mean, first of all, sleep to me is where we should all start, right? I believe that sleep is our human superpower. If you're not sleeping, you're not healing, you're not regenerating, you're not, you know, your cells are not eliminating waste, repairing, detoxifying. You know, we know that our, our, our brain's lymphatic system, which is like the lymph system in, in, in the brain is active in waste elimination, you know, at night. So the only time the brain really detoxifies is during this deep. You know, uh, sleep cycle and in the REM cycle,

• 1:01:13Gary Brecka?

  we're assembling our memories from the day with our subconscious and creating learned behaviors and learned, learned memory. So learned, learned memories. It seems to me like if you have compounds that are available to enhance that, they get all of the benefits of that deep sleep cycle without any of the detriments.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I firmly believe sleep will, will continue to be the starting point for most people. Uh, what we're seeing uptake more on the performance side is actually coming in professional athletes.

• 1:01:47Gary Brecka?

  And what can you do for professional athletes today?

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and, and this is something I wouldn't have guessed at the start of the company coming in, but a lot of the professional athlete use of, uh, the product, whether it's NBA players, whether it's, uh, premier league soccer teams, whether it's NHL teams, has been around, uh, pre-match, uh, warm-up and, and education. Right? These guys that are either, uh, very nervous before games and, and need to relax or folks who, uh, are too hyped up or are not hyped up enough and, and need a boost early on. So on the, on the sports performance side of, of kind of our professional athlete uptake,

• 1:02:33Speaker 00

  it's been around, uh, pre-game management, uh, and then also sleep and travel on, you know, guys taking five flights a week to go play.

• 1:02:43Gary Brecka?

  Trust me, I know how that is.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  The wild sleep schedules in the professional sports worlds. Um, so between that and then, uh, the third piece, uh, we'll see is like during film review. Sit down, focus, put on nicotine, make it through 30 minutes of film study, make it through reading a playbook, make it through, uh, listening to the coaching report, uh, before moving on. So again, it's, it's multifaceted, but kind of.

• 1:03:12Gary Brecka?

  Do you, do you envision a day, maybe not in the not so distant future, where even doctor's offices, hospitals and care providers, um,

• 1:03:25Gary Brecka?

  Put this around somebody's neck and prescribe whatever medication is and this app sort of runs on a a timer and well, I guess it wouldn't do that because I was thinking, you know, dosing your pain medication or dosing your thyroid medication or dosing any other medication for that matter.

• 1:03:45Gary Brecka?

  Where you could, instead of having them ingest that compound, you just start transmitting that.

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  That there's, there's certainly.

• 1:03:53Gary Brecka?

  Frequency.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, a world there. We've, we've done kind of pilots in two places, actually. Dentist's office for folks who have significant anxiety in the, in the waiting room. And then also with this veterans group, folks that have so much physical pain. They can't come, they can't come in to do a workup session without getting that treated and addressed early on and being able to do CBD delivery for them before they start. The rest of their protocol has, has been the starting point of that in our journey.

• 1:04:27Gary Brecka?

  And, and to date, have you guys conducted any of your own independent research?

• 1:04:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. So on our side, there's been kind of two pieces to it. One is core technology on the recordings of, of the drug, the advancement of the base research. And then the other side is the applied science of animal pain studies, animal.

• 1:04:54Gary Brecka?

  How would it mitigate pain other than if you had a pain medication?

• 1:05:01Gary Brecka?

  You would send that, that into the body and the body would respond as if it were under that influence?

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  And in, in our case, that, that compound is, is CBD and the CB2 receptor pathway. That's mostly in your, in your spinal column.

• 1:05:14Gary Brecka?

  And how hard is it to add, you, you, in order to add a new product or, you know, a new compound that it's mimicking? What's the process to do that? Because I noticed it's an app. So I assume that you could update that app remotely. And as you guys come out with more technological innovations, you know, this necklace goes from being like asleep and slightly mentally alert and maybe a neurotropic into being all kinds of things.

• 1:05:44Speaker 00

  Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah, so there's the basically just go through the recording process, go through some animal validation work, maybe some cellular validation work, and then bring it on to the platform.

• 1:05:58Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, I mean, again, the possibilities are just endless. So sleep is the primary focus. Where do your users go from there? What do you see after that? The caffeine settings?

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think predominantly what we see is people will start either with the sleep pad for sleep only, and then they'll realize that, oh, I can expand use with the wearable during the day. Or we'll see people who come on to the neckband, start using it for sleep and expand to be two product users.

• 1:06:30Gary Brecka?

  I mean, is there any detriment to using it over and over and over again? Like when you sat down, you were running the nicotine setting. It was interfering with the mic, so we turned it off. But you're running the nicotine setting, and now you're running nothing, right?

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:06:47Gary Brecka?

  Do you already feel that nicotine has dropped in your?

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I felt it right away. It was before we were even on camera, I think.

• 1:06:55Gary Brecka?

  Well, it's just so wild. I mean, eventually, the idea that you can integrate those into mattresses or any number of other products that become true biohacking modalities. You know, I'm always, I'm a huge fan of this term biostacking. Because to me, what biostacking means is you take multiple devices, biohacking devices, and you just try to do them instead of in sequence, but do them together. Like, for example, I'm always preaching on social media about the importance of breathwork and sunlight and grounding. Those three just simple things. But you could package.

• 1:07:38Gary Brecka?

  All of that together at one time, like for example, I will sit on the beach sometimes, let the sunlight hit my skin while I'm grounded and I'll do rounds of breath work. So instead of having three separate 20 minute segments, I have one 20 minute segment and we put it all together. I kind of see the same thing happening here where if somebody were wearing this device, you know, the physician could say, here's your prescription. It's loaded into your app. And when you wake up in the morning, you know, just let HABB know that you're awake and it will run your Synthroid because that has to be done 30 minutes before meals and it has to be done completely by itself.

• 1:08:22Gary Brecka?

  And your next medication is going to start here, you know, you're going to run, you know, something for your blood pressure or... So are you saying that there's almost no field from any compound that you can't record? And then translate that that's covalent?

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, so and what we've seen from everything from like small molecules to like short interfering RNA to like big molecules, still microscopic, right? But relatively large is that these recordings are very unique, compound by compound. So in theory, yeah, we should be able to do a whole bunch of this stuff, but I...

• 1:09:02Gary Brecka?

  And is there any bio-individuality? Like, you know, because if you and I both took the same number of milligram strengths of melatonin and everybody listening to this podcast, there would be vastly different reactions to it. Some people would say, oh my God, it felt like I got hit by a sledgehammer, couldn't even get out of bed the next day, I was so sluggish. And then other people would say, yeah, I didn't feel it at all. Is there that bio-individuality to?

• 1:09:30Speaker 00

  On, on using the happiest platform, absolutely, there is.

• 1:09:34Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  And we would expect, you have to play with it a little bit and we'll, we'll see customer onboarding. This is where people say, I'm very sensitive to caffeine.

• 1:09:48Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:09:48Speaker 00

  And people will turn it on and have an unpleasant experience.

• 1:09:51Gary Brecka?

  Really?

• 1:09:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, about 15 ish, I forget the exact number, but a significant percent of people are, are aversive to caffeine.

• 1:10:01Gary Brecka?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:01Speaker 00

  Biologically aversive to caffeine and, and that.

• 1:10:04Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, they can't process it. There's a, is it the CYP? Forget the exact gene mutation.

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  You're not gonna get it from me.

• 1:10:12Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, there's, there is a gene mutation that breaks down caffeine either quickly or slowly. My wife was so happy because we actually had a genetic scientist over here months ago and we did this big genetic test and when he was going through the results, she was so, she was like, if I can't have more than one cup of coffee a day, I am out. Because we were looking at caffeine metabolism. Luckily, she's a very fast metabolizer of it. So she can actually drink more coffee and have more later in the day. And, and this report recommended that I only drink one because I'm a slow metabolizer of caffeine. And I kind of find that on my own. I really don't need caffeine. I'm kind of

• 1:10:58Gary Brecka?

  quite a bit of energy most, most days, but because of that, I've limited my cups of coffee to one. But in this case, I'm not metabolizing it, right? I'm, I'm under the influence of caffeine.

• 1:11:11Speaker 00

  And there will be similar biological profiling on receptor availability. Like we, we would expect there to still be personalized.

• 1:11:20Gary Brecka?

  So somebody could get this and, you know, their, their husband or their wife puts it on, is like out, like they got hit by a ton of bricks and then they have no effect. So they have to sort of start playing with the compounds.

• 1:11:31Speaker 00

  Something else. Yeah, it's, it's very much a personalized output.

• 1:11:36Gary Brecka?

  That's, that is just so wild. It's, it, I mean, it really proves that these fields are exerting the effect that you're, that you're after. So, um, you know, I gotta ask, what? Where does this happy technology go from here? So you, as a scientist, you've got to be, first of all, fascinated to see. Because I'm sure in biomedical engineering, maybe there are times where you get to see a product have a mass market effect on humanity. But I mean, this has got to be pretty rewarding for you to see that you can have, your laboratory science can have a real mass market effect on humanity.

• 1:12:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think, at least we certainly, like, the reason for bringing it out into the consumer space as opposed to just keeping it medical only was very much like, how quickly can we affect everybody's lives? This isn't something to be held back and...

• 1:12:37Gary Brecka?

  And if this engineer that developed it for the military, I mean, is this, is the technology owned by the military?

• 1:12:44Speaker 00

  No, it's just developed and iterated from...

• 1:12:48Gary Brecka?

  They're like, "Yeah, we're looking for submarines. You guys put all the people to sleep you want. We're not worried about it." Yeah, fascinating. Well, I definitely want to have you back on the podcast because this whole innovation of wearables, to me, is this conversion that is happening right now between artificial intelligence, big data, and early detection. But in this case, if you were able to take massive amounts of data, presumably from wearables, and create an actionable response, I mean, that's, you know, so that as I'm

• 1:13:31Gary Brecka?

  going through the day, you know, my whoop is transmitting and it's telling me my strain and my, you know, all of my biometrics are in there. And there are things that you could potentially do to follow the data in real time on someone's wearable and say, "Wow, they're not getting into REM sleep. Let's secrete melatonin. Let's secrete adenosine. Let's bring in some THC." And actually, in real time, take that data and create such a personalized experience, but they're not under the influence of anything. I mean, and they're not, they don't have the detriments of those things. And if they wanted to remove...

• 1:14:13Gary Brecka?

  You know, essentially, the influence that that field was having on them, they could, they could do so. It's like if you take a Tylenol PM and you want to get out of bed two hours later, forget it. If you like pop an Ambien and you're like, oh, shoot, I gotta go to the airport and pick up my stuff. There's none of that going on, right? I mean, because you're, you are now subject to whatever the half-life is of that compound and exerting its effect, and you're just gonna have to ride it out. I mean, if you had to eat Guinness, there's no way you're getting in the car in an hour. You've got to, you know, you've got to wait for your blood alcohol to come down, but this would happen so much faster. Man, it's just super fascinating to me.

• 1:14:58Gary Brecka?

  So for my audience that doesn't know you and know about this technology, where do they find you? Where do they find out about this technology?

• 1:15:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the easiest place to, to keep track of us is just our website, happy.com.

• 1:15:12Gary Brecka?

  H J P B E.

• 1:15:14Speaker 00

  H J P B E.

• 1:15:15Gary Brecka?

  Dot com.

• 1:15:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's always a tough one to.

• 1:15:17Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, happy.com. And, and you guys are talking about, this is widely available for consumers now.

• 1:15:24Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:15:24Gary Brecka?

  So if somebody's struggling with sleep, what would you say the biggest implication is for this technology right now? If I'm a listener and I have this condition, this would be the most appropriate?

• 1:15:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think what we've really seen is if you're having trouble falling asleep in those first early stages, like that's the most clear, grab a sleep pad, flip it onto melatonin and adenosine and knock yourself out.

• 1:15:49Gary Brecka?

  Knock yourself out, like literally knock yourself out. Well, we're gonna go into my, my VIP room now, because every, every time I have a guest on, I, I bring them into my VIP's room to allow them to ask questions directly. So if you're interested in becoming one of my ultimate human VIPs, go over to theultimatehuman.com and just sign up to be one of my VIP members, so you can have private podcasts with our guests. I also do live coaching, group coaching sessions in there. I write all kinds of specific content for the VIPs, so go over to theultimatehuman.com and sign up to be one of my VIP members.

• 1:16:29Gary Brecka?

  But I end every, every podcast I wind down the same way by asking my guests the same question. And there's no right or wrong answer to this question. And it is, what, what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

• 1:16:41Speaker 00

  For me, I think there are a couple of pieces. One being having the ability to always be improving, right? Whether that's a small change or a big change. And, and the other is agency, being able to do it in the way that you want to do it. And, you know, when you combine those two things, whether it's being better to try and live healthy for longer, whether it's to try and be smarter or do better at work, like those two principles, I feel generally cover all aspects of, of life.

• 1:17:21Gary Brecka?

  That's awesome. You must be pretty fascinated with the journey that you're on. That was amazing. Dr. Morgan, thank you for coming on the Ultimate Human Podcast today. And let's go check out my VIPs.

• 1:17:33Speaker 00

  Well, thank you very much for having me.

• 1:17:34Gary Brecka?

  And as always, guys, that's just science.