Kerry Washington Opens Up: Mental Health Struggles, Her Spiritual Connection & The Secret That Changed EVERYTHING

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Acclaimed actress Kerry Washington drops her Hollywood facade to reveal the startling truth about growing up with a family secret that shook her identity to its core. She opens up about the mental health battle that comes with discovering in her forties that she was conceived through a sperm donor—a revelation her parents had kept hidden her entire life. Through therapy, spiritual practice, and brutal honesty, Kerry transformed this family mystery into her greatest source of strength, allowing her to step fully into her power both on-screen in her new action film "Shadow Force" and in her personal life. This vulnerable conversation exposes how Kerry's mental health journey from feeling "not enough" to embracing her authentic self offers a blueprint for anyone seeking to break free from their own limiting beliefs. Official Trailer for Shadow ForceKerry’s book Thicker than Water: A MemoirIn this episode you will learn:How Kerry transformed her family's shocking DNA revelation from potential destruction to profound healingWhy therapy became Kerry's mental health sanctuary where she learned to separate excellence from feelings of inadequacyThe unexpected way Kerry's eating disorder recovery opened her spiritualityHow Kerry approaches marriage as a "third entity" requiring conscious investment from both partnersThe critical difference between pursuing greatness from a place of deficiency versus from joy and purposeFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1768For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson – greatness.lnk.to/1767SCEric Thomas – greatness.lnk.to/1696SCSarah Jakes Roberts – greatness.lnk.to/1606SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back my beautiful friend to the School of Greatness. Today is a blessed day because we get to experience another day of life. We get to have another breath and we get to adventure throughout the world and create the life that we want today. And I know there might be some challenges and adversities you're going through. And I'm so glad that you're here because this show and specifically this interview is all about healing from childhood trauma, cultivating a spiritual connection and coming home to yourself. That's what Kerry Washington opens up about today. And she really shares how this revelation transformed her family relationships

• 0:42Lewis Howes?

  and allowed her to finally heal and understand the disconnect she felt growing up. So if you felt like something's been off in your life, you're really going to want to hear the first part of this episode that talks about how she was able to come home to herself, even when she was succeeding at the highest levels. And as she prepares for a new action film, Shadow Force, Kerry explains how stepping fully into her authentic truth has allowed her to embody physical power in a way she never could before. It's so interesting when we are out of alignment in some areas of our life. We can still accomplish and succeed and achieve all these things, but something deep down may feel off.

• 1:24Lewis Howes?

  And Kerry dives in deep about why therapy has been essential to her journey and how it helps her navigate both her career and personal life, her approach to marriage as a spiritual partnership, and the importance of couples therapy even when things are going well. So many other inspiring topics in this conversation. I really hope you enjoy this one. Make sure to tag Kerry Washington over on Instagram. Make sure to check out the new movie Shadow Force as well. Make sure to let me know your thoughts on this and share it with a friend or two. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one and only Kerry Washington. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring, the talented Carrie Washington.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Hi, good to see you.

• 2:09Lewis Howes?

  I'm so excited about this.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, our mutual friend Gabby Bernstein was texting us this morning, saying that we're excited that we're coming on together.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17Lewis Howes?

  I've been researching more about you lately, obviously, knowing that you were coming on.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22Lewis Howes?

  I've seen your talented career as an actor, as a writer, director, all these different things. But hearing your spiritual journey is what really excites me. And what you were just talking about before we started rolling is that you're very excited about your new movie, Shadow Force, which is coming out in a few days after this launches. And you said the reason you're excited about it is because after your memoir,

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  you started to fully open up about your truth, about all the different lessons, the pain, the tragic moments of your childhood, and the stressful things that you dealt with, the anxiety, the kind of sexual stuff that happened when you were younger that you opened up about with your book, your father opening up and sharing this kind of lie that was held on to for a long time. So much that I've researched about you is fascinating because you now get to step fully into your truth,

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15Lewis Howes?

  into a character,

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:16Lewis Howes?

  and embody ultimate power.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  And so I'm curious, and we'll dive into some of this, after opening up and starting to heal a lot of these things from your past,

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  how did it feel filming Shadow Force and stepping into fully who you are? How did that process feel in that character?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  You said it perfectly. Shadow Force is like this big splashy action adventure where I play this badass mercenary. But at its core, it's really a story about love. It's about parents, these estranged lovers, played by myself and Omar C., and we have this son. And we are willing to go to the ends of the earth to protect this sun. So I wrote this memoir about my family, about my mother, father, and me. I'm an only child. And kind of the dynamics that unfolded when we got to step into our truth. And my mom said something really beautiful when we were presenting the memoir to the world. She said, it's like, we're not afraid to hurt each other anymore. Because there's a new strength in our family.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  And I felt like in making Shadow Force, I got to bring that new strength, that new fearlessness into a character. I got to really embody power and fearlessness in a way that I never had before. And I've played really strong characters throughout my career. But this was a new level of embodiment. This was like, what does it feel like to train really hard? To, you know, the physical training, the fight choreography, the weapons training. All of that was like a very, very physical manifestation of feelings that I felt like I had been cultivating over the past few years. So it was really exciting for me to like, get out there and kick ass and just act as if there was nothing I couldn't do

• 5:06Speaker 01

  or wouldn't do to protect my family.

• 5:08Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. But you said before, you played, you know, obviously a lot of characters and roles before. And I don't think anyone ever felt like you weren't embodying your most authentic self. I mean, you were crushing it in all these roles. Winning awards and just at the top of your game. But was there something missing inside that was different from the past?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  I think there are lots of different kinds of strength. And I think, you know, the exciting thing for me as an actor is I get to explore some of those dynamics of how we express who we are in our lifetime. And Olivia Pope, for example, is a really strong person in her brain. Like intellectually, she's really strong. Emotionally, she's strong. But I have never thought of myself as a fighter, as a warrior, you know? And so to, to get up every morning and train with these incredible martial artists and stunt coordinators to like, really put my body in a place where I'm wearing that strength in my cells was

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Just a crazy journey. It was so exciting to to like let the strength not just exist mentally. Because Kyra, the character I play in Shadow Force, she's smart and she's emotionally strong. But she's also got guns, like guns and guns. And so like,

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  You got jacked, right?

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, like to become that person and to to, you know, it's such a wonderful relationship. The mind body connection is so interesting. You talk about it a lot on this show. And so for me to get to to really, really commit to trying to be as strong and fearless physically as I had become emotionally and spiritually was very cool.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love learning about your spiritual journey. I think there was some interview where you talked about, or maybe it was in your memoir, where you talked about in college, being on your knees, kind of going through anxiety and stress and overwhelm, where you were starring in the plays. And you, you know, looked like you had it all put together on the outside, but the inside, you were dealing with anxiety.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Total mess.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  And a lot of other things that were just happening. And you were on your knees praying. And you didn't, and I think it was you didn't really feel like you had a spiritual connection at that moment. But that opened up

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:17Lewis Howes?

  a spiritual channel.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that's another great example, right, is when you get on your knees in prayer, again, that's a physical embodiment of an emotional dynamic. Because on there is inherent humility for being on your knees. So sometimes, like I'm a person who prays all the time. Like I pray in my car. I pray when I'm walking down the street. I pray when I'm cooking dinner. But I do feel like there are times when it's really important for me to take that submissive posture and get on my knees, just to remind myself that I'm not in control, that I'm not the ultimate power, that there's something bigger than me, that I can ask for help that's outside of me. So again, that for me, that relationship between, you know, how we think, how we feel,

• 8:01Speaker 01

  and how it lives in the body is such a huge part of how I work as an actor and how I try to live my life.

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. When you started. Praying after that moment?

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:11Lewis Howes?

  What did you start to hear?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  So, like you said, I was in college and I was really struggling. I have throughout my life struggled with an eating disorder and that was like the worst of it. It was the, that was the turning point where I really was like, I need help. Like, I can't fix this by myself.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  Is this like starving or is this just like?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  So, you know what, for me, I was, I knew that, that eating disorders existed. And I think I tried to play this game where I didn't want to fit into any easy diagnosis. So I was always kind of like, like transforming it and morphing it. And it would be like days of binging and then days of starving and then days of over exercising. And just kind of like, I felt like if I kept moving it, then I wasn't any simple sick person. I was just like trying to be my best me. But I was controlled and obsessed by feeling like I wasn't enough.

• 9:04Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the prayer for me was really, I think what I started to hear was that it was okay to ask for help. And that it was okay for me to seek healing.

• 9:16Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think you didn't feel enough?

• 9:18Speaker 01

  I think for me, that journey started really, really, really early. And I talk about this a little bit in my memoir, but you know, I was conceived with the help of a sperm donor. And that was something I didn't find out until I was in my 40s.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  Ah, man.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  And.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy to me.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  It was pretty wild. I think my parents would have taken this secret to their graves if they could have.

• 9:41Lewis Howes?

  Gosh.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  And luckily, they weren't able to. They were kind of forced to tell me, to share this with me. And it wound up being transformative for our family because it was the thing that they were most terrified to tell me because they thought that it would destroy our family, that I would, you know, be angry with them, that I would not, no longer see my dad as my dad, that it would fracture this kind of perfect facade, this image that we were portraying to the world. It, of course, as with most things in life, had the opposite impact. It was so healing for my family to sit in that truth and to.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Have the courage to be honest with one another actually made me feel closer to my dad. It made me so grateful to my parents. I understood so, so many of the like confusing dynamics of our household growing up. Suddenly I understood, you know, I, I often say like I, I entered the world in a lie. Right? Like the moment that I got here, the moment that I emerged from my mom, like they were lying to me about who my parents were. And so I think there was a disconnect very early on. And like most kids, I decided like children to make sense of discomfort and unease.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  We will, they will blame ourselves, right? Like I must be the reason because you can't blame your parents because they're responsible for your survival and wellbeing. So you blame yourself. And so for me, I think I decided, well, I must not be enough. Like this weird disconnect that I have, or this way that they hold me at arm's length, or this kind of slight veil where I feel like I'm not getting a hundred percent of the truth. And I couldn't have articulated any of that as a child, but it was a feeling, right? I thought, well, maybe if I'm better, they'll be closer to me. If I'm better, I'll have their full presence. So that's why I think I interpreted it as I have to be more, I have to do better, I have to be better in order to get presence and love and acceptance.

• 11:40Lewis Howes?

  But you had, you had love and acceptance from them, right?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  I did. I mean, my parents did such a beautiful job and even their choice of not to tell me was a choice that came out of love, right? They were trying to protect me in a time when, I mean, this was, you know, I'm in my forties. So there weren't like sperm banks where you could go through a catalog and carefully pick your donor. This was the Wild West. They, people weren't doing this. Nobody they knew had done this. And so they thought not telling me was the best way to go. And I think for my dad, not telling me was really because he, he really was in denial. I mean, he was. He believed the myth of our family.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  What was the myth of your family?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  That I was his. He believed that. And so his not telling me, I think, was really, he was sharing as much of the truth with me as he could. My mom, I think, had a more awareness of the reality. And so her not telling me, I think, was really protective.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I know, it's pretty wild. It's so complicated. But I know, it's so funny as I look back on it because I'm, I feel like when you're able to look back on your life, you can see, or for me, I'll speak for myself. As I look back on my life, I can see how everything happened for a reason. And the things that are our greatest challenges, this sounds so cliche, but they have become my strengths, right? Like this feeling of I have to do better and be better is what allows me to lean into greatness. It's what makes me seek excellence. It's what makes me train for four hours a day in stunt training and a workout on top of that and learning the fight choreography. And, you know, it's like I want to be great in the things I do.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  The trick for me is, as an adult, seeking that excellence and greatness without the attachment that I'm not enough. Like waking up and saying like, I am enough and I still have a right to chase greatness.

• 13:44Lewis Howes?

  That's what I was gonna ask you. Can you achieve greatness and feel enough at the same time?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  I think you can. For me, that's what I'm really trying to do. It's the walk that I'm trying to walk is like, can I, can I love myself and also seek more? Is it okay to like, to want to be excellent, to be great, to be a champion, to be, to be a master at my craft and not have that come from a place of deficiency? Have that come from a place of joy and seeking and?

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  When did you start to feel like you were enough? Was it before the lie was revealed or after the lie was revealed?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I feel like from the moment that I went into therapy in college, those days of like getting on my knees and being like, somebody help me. I feel like I've been on this. Journey of trying to feel like enough of like picking up tools throughout the decades of like I I know I should feel like enough and so I like I know that that like we're all perfectly imperfect we're all children of God like I should wake up in the morning and not hate myself like we all deserve that and so I've been trying to cultivate like what does that take what will that look like what do I have to do different healing practices different modalities and yoga and Pilates and therapy and group therapy and introspection

• 15:05Speaker 01

  and so I have been on that walk but I do think and it's gradual right it's not like you wake up one day and you're like I'm healed now but I do think my parents offering me this deeper truth about who I am and where I come from it like gave me permission to relax into who I am and to be like I'm good

• 15:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah

• 15:28Speaker 01

  I'm okay

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  Now do you feel like before that truth was revealed that you were able to fully relax into your relationship with your parents even though they were loving to you and supported you and encouraged you

• 15:43Speaker 01

  No

• 15:44Lewis Howes?

  You don't feel like you were able to

• 15:45Speaker 01

  No and again I had I've always had a really loving relationship with my parents I have incredible parents and they have given me so many tools consciously and unconsciously they have they've been a tremendous part of the story of me getting to where I am today I'm not where I am despite my parents I'm mostly where I am because of my parents and then there is a little bit of despite those dynamics

• 16:11Lewis Howes?

  Right

• 16:11Speaker 01

  I wound up here so I do I think I've I had a really good relationship with my parents but I have a great relationship with my parents now because of the gift of truth that they've offered us

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  You always felt like something was off

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah I felt like something was missing

• 16:28Lewis Howes?

  Did you ever ask them like hey guys what's going on like in your twenties and thirties like

• 16:31Speaker 01

  No

• 16:31Lewis Howes?

  Is there something off or are you guys not sharing with something with me

• 16:34Speaker 01

  What's funny is that there were these kind of smaller revelations throughout my childhood like I talk about in the book how my dad was kind of involved in this investigation and so when I learned about that

• 16:47Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, this is what it was.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  Ah, they were hiding this.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yes, there were these, I think, the culture of my family was kind of hide the truth to look good and like, we should, we should do whatever it takes to like, look good in the world. So, as I would learn these smaller truths along the way, I kept waiting to feel the, the revelatory feeling that I had when I got the big truth.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  Did you have any resentment or anger, once they opened up after four decades of hiding this lie?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  I did. I did. It was like a roller coaster. I feel like I've had every possible feeling that you could have about this news that I got, any possible feeling you could have, I've had. I've had gratitude, I've felt elated, I have felt bliss, I have felt anger, I've felt anxiety, I've felt fear. So it was, I mean, I think when they first told me, I felt really compassionate because I, I could see when they told me, how afraid they were to tell me. And I remember saying to my dad, and I don't know where this came from, but I'm so grateful that this dropped into my brain to say to him, I said to him, you know, our whole lives,

• 18:10Speaker 01

  I have told you that I love you on the pretense of a lie. Like, every time that I have said I love you, there's been a tiny filter that my dad was thinking like, oh, she loves me because she thinks I am her father. And so in this revelation, I actually got to say, I love you unconditionally. Like, I got to say, I know the full truth of you, and I'm not going anywhere. I still love you. And to me, that's a much more powerful love, right? A love that's rooted in absolute vulnerability and honesty. When you get to like, show all your dirty laundry to somebody and your greatest fears and admit the things that you're scared to admit, and they don't go anywhere, that is real love. Right, so that's what we got to give each other.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  When they gave me the truth, I got to give them that return of unconditional love. And them giving me the truth was a way of loving me unconditionally because they were saying, "We know you might be mad. We know you may not want to be in a relationship with us. We know this might change the dynamic of our family forever, but we're going to give you this truth anyway."

• 19:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow, it must have took a lot of courage for them.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  Because maybe they're thinking, "Ah, we're never going to say this, but now she's in her twenties."

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:19Lewis Howes?

  "Oh, it's, you can't do it now."

• 19:21Speaker 01

  That's right. My mom was like, "When was I supposed to tell you? When you're in the throes of an eating disorder? Like, when was I supposed, when you're totally depressed? Or then, you know, you're in a broken relationship?" Or she was like, "There was never a good time."

• 19:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or now your career's taking off. And they're going to bring you back down. Or it's like, "Let her succeed."

• 19:36Speaker 01

  That's right. It's, there's never an easy time to tell the truth when there are hard truths to tell.

• 19:41Lewis Howes?

  But you also, I mean, you have kids, and so they're grandparents as well.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:46Lewis Howes?

  So I wonder what that dynamic was like now that they're lying to generations.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:51Lewis Howes?

  You know, they were lying to generations. It's like, I wonder how, I mean, your father must have gone through so many emotions himself. I'm not saying it's okay that they lied.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we're all doing the best we can, right? And again, like, especially as parents, I think it is really powerful and important, I think, in our journey that they told me at the right time, right? Because it's when they told me. So whenever it happened is when it was supposed to happen. And I do think there's something beautiful about the fact that when they told me I was myself a parent, because I had a different level of understanding of how hard it is to parent and how you can try to do everything perfectly, but nobody gets it perfect. It's just, there's no such thing. And actually, the ways that our parents are imperfect, that's part of the journey of how we become who we are. That's how we fill in those cracks and become the adults that we are.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and they were trying to protect you, and they loved you, and they wanted to keep you guys together.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

  It was part of their journey.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  He must have let go of a huge weight.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  Like, does he seem lighter and younger, just like emotionally?

• 20:53Speaker 01

  You know, it's so funny when I think about It's a, it was a very important lesson for me and also how to metabolize fear and how to run toward the things that we think will destroy us. Because initially, he wouldn't even take a genetic test. You know, he was like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna know. I don't wanna know, I don't want anybody else to know. He literally said to me, if you do this, it will kill me.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  He didn't want me to write a book. He was like, nobody should know this. Why do we have to talk about this? Nobody needs to talk about this. Nobody needs to know. Then, I think about moments in my book tour where he's like standing in an auditorium, getting a standing ovation. Where people are celebrating his presence as a dad and the fact that despite the fact that I wasn't genetically his, that he has been such a force in my life and has loved me so fiercely. And, you know, he got that in like several cities. Standing ovations, cheering him on and celebrating him. And on national television, people saying like, what an amazing thing you did. And even the fact that, that my parents made this choice to use a sperm donor in the seventies, when nobody was doing that.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  That in itself is a testament of how much they wanted me.

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, so beautiful.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  So, that journey for my dad, to see him go from being somebody who he thought would lose all respect and credibility and masculinity and identity, to see him be so celebrated and held up. It's a really important lesson, right?

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  It's so powerful.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  The thing that we think will destroy us could be our greatest gift.

• 22:25Lewis Howes?

  100%. I can relate to that. I mean, you've heard me talk about, opening up about sexual abuse. And I held on to the lie or the story for 25 years. Because I thought if anyone knows this, shame about me, no one will love me. No one will accept me. People will think I'm less than, whatever it might be. I won't be enough, right? Goes back to that feeling. He probably felt like he would die. Because everything would be taken away. Everything, emotionally, spiritually, physically.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  But you can't take away that he's been my dad. It's like, he's, you know, he's my dad. Nothing changes that, you know? And it's funny because my kids grow up in a world where like, yeah, you can have two dads and two... Two moms and stepparents and they like the village is big. And so that was one of the things I said to him was like, it's not going to change anything for your grandkids.

• 23:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Even if we know who this other donor is, that's just another parent. It doesn't take away from you. You hold your space. You hold your throne. You are who you are in this family.

• 23:25Lewis Howes?

  Let's go. I like that.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  It's so funny because when I first read Shadow Force, it was one of the things that really drew me to the script. Because Omar C, who people love from Lupin, he's amazing. He's like an incredible actor. And he plays my husband and he's the dad in this film. And in the script, the dad is the primary parent. As the mom, we both used to be mercenaries and we broke the rules and fell in love. And I got pregnant. We have this child. And then we have to leave this highly trained group of mercenaries that we were in to be on the run. And I disappear because I'm like, everybody's going to be looking for a mother and a child. Nobody, because of how we think about parenting in culture, nobody's going to be looking for a man and a son.

• 24:11Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  And so he takes on the primary parenting. And Omar is such an extraordinary dad. He's got a bunch of kids of his own. And it's so beautiful to see this man parent this child in this film. And the mom kind of on the outskirts being a protecting them, like taking people down so that they don't get hurt, but not being able to be there to do the day today in the way that the dad is. And I really loved that about this script because I feel like we need those stories in culture. We need those images. And, and this couple, you know, they sort of learn to lean into partnering again in order to parent. And I think that's also just such an important story to be telling in culture right now. That being a, part of being a great mom is also,

• 24:57Speaker 01

  if you're lucky enough to have a great partner, leaning into that partnership and allowing that. And maybe the partner is the dad. Maybe the partner is, you know, every kid takes a village, but like leaning into whoever those partners are, knowing that you don't have to do it all yourself. You can be part of the village that raises a child.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, that's so cool. Yeah, we're talking about spiritual partnership is something I've heard you say before.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:21Lewis Howes?

  When you met your man.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  How did you know that you guys were building a spiritual partnership? And connecting from a spiritual space? Even though you had this kind of You know, you had a great relationship with your parents, but there was something missing still with your father. How did you learn to trust your intuition in relationship? When you had a broken, partial relationship, fractured.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Such a good question.

• 25:46Lewis Howes?

  You know, relationship with your dad. How did you trust your intuition?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:50Lewis Howes?

  With the man you have now?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  So there are a couple of things. I mean, one is my parents, the fact that my parents are still together is a real gift and a miracle. And I remember, right, like, it's not that common. And there were times, I talk about this in the memoir, where I would be like, you guys should break up. Like, what, what, you are not happy.

• 26:11Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  And I remember my mom saying to me, like, I know that you think you know everything. I was like 16, you know, she was like, you, for you, your 16 years are the full picture. But your 16 years are a fraction of our marriage, right? Like, we were together long before you got here.

• 26:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  So we have had good times and bad times. We've had ups and downs. Like, your little window into this is not the full story. And that was a really important lesson to me in what marriage is, that there are like, there are highs and lows. It's a journey, it's a path. And like, if you're committed, you have to be committed for the journey. And that's not to say that I don't agree with divorce, that I don't think divorce isn't right for some people, that, you know, some relationships are meant to be forever, some are for a season. Like, I, all of that is true. But I think I, I had an understanding that marriage, as a commitment, if you're gonna make the commitment, it has to be about something deeper than ego. Like, it has, something has to keep you.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  If you're going to do it with love and joy and,

• 27:18Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't know if I need to say any other word other than love. If you're gonna do it with real love,

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  then. Having something deeper to commit to that's bigger than just the two of you is really important. So I think that's where the spirit comes in.

• 27:33Lewis Howes?

  How did you guys create that commitment then from something bigger? What did you talk about? And when things are tough, because you know, talking about Shadowforce where the role, the father in the movie, he's kind of taking on the father role and taking care of the kid with you kind of running away and escaping or whatever. You know, I'm not saying this is a parallel to your life, but there are times where you're really busy. You're on set all day, 10, 12 hour days for months at a time. I'm assuming you have to have extra support or your husband's taking the lead in certain areas of parenting. Making assumptions there, but correct me if I'm wrong, where he has to step up as well. How did you guys communicate the alignment with your guys' careers?

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  Separating ego, because I know he's very successful and what he's done in the past as well and what he's doing now. How do you separate ego and make spirit and love the center? When each one of you are evolving in career as well?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  So I mean, one thing is I'm always careful to talk too much about like the us when he's not in the room, because I feel like it's interesting, it's sort of like with my kids, like I don't post a lot about my kids or talk a lot about their inner lives or their journeys, because I feel like their story is theirs and they have a right to tell their story in their way. And I feel that way a little bit about my marriage too. Like if we were both sitting here, we could kind of agree and co-sign on it. But I would say the first thing I thought about when you asked me that question is the importance of therapy. Because

• 29:10Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Let's go, right? Like individual therapy, couples therapy, like being willing to have spaces where you do the work. And I remember my dad one day being like, you guys are in couples therapy? Like what's wrong? And we were like, nothing, like nothing's wrong. It's, it is a place where we go to take care of our marriage. In the way that I go to the gym to take care of my body or I go to the dentist to take care of my teeth, like. I feel like as a couple, we deserve and therefore we cultivate a place where we care for our relationship.

• 29:44Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  And it doesn't come out of crisis, it doesn't come out of things that are bad. I mean, in fact, like, we spend a lot of time in therapy consciously talking about what we're doing well and acknowledging that for each other.

• 29:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow, gosh, that's so cool.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Because it's really important to not take for granted that there are good things to celebrate and acknowledge about each other, right? And so, that's, I mean, I feel like therapy is a big part of that spiritual commitment. So one of the things I remember my, one of my many therapists saying early on to me was, "A healthy relationship is not just about like give and take, like I do for you, you do for me, that actually it's important to think about the relationship almost as a third entity that you're both pouring into."

• 30:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  It's like a bank account, it's like a spiritual or emotional love account, where like, I'm not just doing for him and then he owes me. It's like, we're both pouring into this thing that matters to us, which is the marriage.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  That is beautiful.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Right?

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  I'm so glad you said this, because I haven't heard a lot of people in your position talk about therapy and marriage.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 30:51Lewis Howes?

  And one of the things that Martha, my wife, and I committed to early on.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Congrats on your marriage.

• 30:58Lewis Howes?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Do you like saying wife?

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  It's so weird, I have to say it because first it was girlfriend, then it was fiance, then it's wife. It's like, okay, I'm getting used to wife.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  I love, I mean, I just love the word husband. I like, I like add multiple syllables.

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  Husband!

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Husband, I love it, yeah.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  I'm still stepping into it, but it's been a great experience. But one of the things, when we were dating, non-exclusively, before we became committed exclusively, we were having an amazing time, but there was still some like, little fear or anxiety or worry about getting fully committed, because in every previous relationship I was in.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  It all ended badly in therapy.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 31:40Lewis Howes?

  And I was like.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Because you went to therapy when things got bad.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  And I always wanted to get into therapy sooner.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  But the partners I chose resisted therapy. And I was always thinking, what woman would not want a man to go to therapy with them?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Right? So I was always like, what world am I living in right now? But I kept repeating this cycle.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  But then you learn to choose a partner.

• 31:59Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Who was willing to walk that walk with you.

• 32:02Lewis Howes?

  And I said, I want to start, if we're going to get committed.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:06Lewis Howes?

  We're having an amazing time. I want to start in therapy.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 32:10Lewis Howes?

  And so we started right away within the first few months.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  So smart.

• 32:13Lewis Howes?

  Not because something was wrong.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  So smart, because then when you have something that you need to unpack, you're not like, uh oh, we got to step in the ring and do and battle it out in therapy. It's like, no, you know what? Let's talk about that this week.

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And it's, it's been the greatest gift that we've given each other because in the first year, we just went and we got alignment.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  We got spiritual alignment.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  And a shared language.

• 32:39Lewis Howes?

  Shared language. We got to talk about past fears and future concerns upfront.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:45Lewis Howes?

  We had to address all the things that we were afraid of.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:48Lewis Howes?

  And come together and be like, oh, we're teammates. We're building a team.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 32:52Lewis Howes?

  We're investing in courageous conversations.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:56Lewis Howes?

  We're allowing for imperfections in both of us. No one needs to be perfect.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:00Lewis Howes?

  And we're stepping into a process of unity and alignment.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:05Lewis Howes?

  Around shared values and a shared vision together.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  It's so funny because I hadn't really thought about this. I, I mean, I know it's, I, that's why. Sometimes when you're doing press for a movie, you're like, oh my God, this is why we're doing this. Like, should we have known this earlier? But I think, I, I think a big part of what pulled me towards Shadow Force was that you get to watch this couple. That sort of start out as adversaries because they are like their marriage is fractured. And they actually become a team. Right? And like literally, one of the hardest, most exciting, most fun fight scenes in the film is early on Omar and I fighting each other.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  It's like a crazy, it's like your worst couples therapy. Yes.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you're like

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Drop kicks. Yeah, because we're both like highly trained mercenaries, right? So he's this big guy is really strong. He's done lots of stunts in big action movies. And we trained for a long time together to be able to do this dance. And we talked about like how his character fights differently from my character. Our different fight styles and what that says about our relationship and how this couple is kind of competitive. And they challenge each other and there is like a real friction between them. You know, he's angry that she's disappeared. She's angry that she hasn't had access to the child and there's, there's heat between them, right?

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  Who's the dirty fighter? Who's the low blow? Is that you?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  I mean, I have to be more strategic. He's a big guy. You know, I mean, I gotta use what I have. And as the film progresses, you get to watch them become a team. And, and so then it was fun for us to learn how to train together. Like, well, what are your strengths? Like, I'm a better shooter than him, but he's a stronger fighter, right? And so like, how do we lean into that in the film so that we're an unstoppable team?

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  And I think that is so much what marriage is, right? Like, it's like figuring out, okay, this is your fighting style. This is my fighting style. Here are the things I'm upset about. What are your resentments? I don't recommend like hand to hand combat for most couples. It's not okay. Not okay.

• 35:18Lewis Howes?

  This is the 50s.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. But, but to figure out how to lean into the strengths and how to speak the same language and how to have a shared, you know, whether you call it spiritual alignment, shared goals, shared priorities, like they come together for their son where they're like, this child means everything to us. What do we have to do to protect him?

• 35:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Would you say therapy has helped you not only in your, I guess, marriage and your family dynamic relationships, but also in your career and stepping into owning your power and your worth? Even though you're excelling and succeeding so much? Do you still have any doubts or insecurities?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 36:01Lewis Howes?

  You're Kerry Washington.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what?

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  What type of, what type of, for someone watching and listening who maybe is really struggling and they don't have much going on in their life, or they just feel like things are just keep knocking them down. Their career isn't working the way they want to, they don't feel like they're living in love, they don't feel like they're living their dreams or in the pursuit of their dreams. They feel like relationships are kind of off and they really lack self-worth. What advice would you give them? For anyone watching or listening who might be in that space on how to start the process of truly loving and accepting yourself, even when you feel really low.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  For me, part of why therapy is so important is because it has taught me to pause. It has taught me to take a pause and to not believe every single thought that I'm having. To not, um, to not get caught up in the negative self-talk, to create a little bit of distance between the stimulus and the response. There's a saying that I love that pause stands for postpone action until serenity emerges.

• 37:17Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Right? Like just take a beat. And for me, in the way that life moves so quickly, sometimes therapy is that beat. Where I get to go like, hold on, the story I'm telling myself is that my job is terrible. The story I'm telling myself is that the world is on fire. The story I'm telling myself is that I'll never be in the body I want to be in. The story I'm telling myself is that I'll never find the person I want to find. But like, maybe I can just pause that for a moment and unpack it and figure out how to walk toward healing.

• 37:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  So for me, therapy is a place to like pause, to pause and be reflective. Take responsibility for the thoughts, be honest with myself, and then try to cultivate some tools. Because some of it could be that I'm not sleeping enough, right? Like, sometimes what I realize in therapy is like, I don't think I'm getting enough sleep, or I don't think I'm eating right, or my hormones are off, I need to support myself better. Or this relationship isn't working out. Or I don't know if I'm happy on this job. Or the job is good, but I think maybe I need a hobby. Like, it just gives me... And so maybe for some people, it's therapy. For some people, it could be like meditative walking, or journaling, or... But it's like, what are the practices that allow me to pause and get in the present moment and be more honest with myself?

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. When you're stepping into a role like you are in the new movie,

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  is there any moment you're feeling insecure at this season?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Every single time.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Every single time. Because here's the crazy thing.

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  At this season of your career?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 38:46Lewis Howes?

  But you've been crushing it.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  It's excitement, though, right? Like, it's that fear that also... I have to remember that the physiological experience of fear is the same physiological experience of excitement. So that fear is like, holy shit, I've never done... Because every time I play a new character, I'm doing something I've never done before. Like, I do have a toolbox of like, I know how to memorize the lines, and I know...

• 39:14Speaker 01

  But I'm becoming a new human being every time I start a new project. A new person with new desires and new fears, and she walks a different way, and she wears her hair a different way, and she has different ways of speaking, and breathing, and eating. And so I'm starting from scratch every time I start a new role. So I'm always terrified. And I'm always like, oh, God, will I be able to figure this one out? Will I be able to unlock her? Will I be able to be her in the way that the project needs me to be her? So it's super exciting.

• 39:46Lewis Howes?

  I mean, you've played all these personalities and characters and roles.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  How do you not get lost in characters and roles and stay true to who your real character is in life?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:59Lewis Howes?

  And I've heard you also talk about how the best character you've ever played is mother and wife.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:05Lewis Howes?

  So how do you not allow... All the films and TV characters you played to seep into your true essence, your true personality, your true role that you are.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  So I think early in my life, you know, when I was in my twenties or even like as a teenager, I actually, I was really hungry for a strong sense of self and I didn't have one. So the characters allowed me to explore different personalities and kind of take on different people's journeys. And that was really helpful to me to, to kind of experience life through somebody else's eyes and get a sense of what resonates and what doesn't because I really didn't feel like I had a strong center. Yeah.

• 40:51Lewis Howes?

  Until when? How old were you when you felt like, oh, I'm, I'm good with me?

• 40:54Speaker 01

  I think when I started, when I started treatment for my eating disorder and started therapy, I started to have a deeper understanding of self. And again, I think it's grown and evolved through the years. Cause also we're always changing, right?

• 41:11Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  So our sense of self is always changing. But I think now I've really learned to see these characters as kind of extensions of myself. When I play a new character, I, I kind of have two jobs. There's an outside in approach and there's an inside out approach. And the inside out approach is I ask myself like, what do I, Carrie, know about this character? What about her experience can I relate to deeply?

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  Personally, from your experience.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  And then do I have the courage to reveal that part of myself publicly? And let the other stuff kind of fall away and let that part of me be my full essence in this character.

• 41:54Lewis Howes?

  Can you give me an example with the new movie and Shadowforce? How you thought about that?

• 41:58Speaker 01

  So like, you know, people say, before you have kids, people will say to you like, oh, I would kill for my child. And you're like, oh, that's such a cute expression, right?

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  Before you have kids, yeah, yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  And then you have children and you're like, oh, I get it. Like I, I can't imagine something I wouldn't do to protect my children. Right? Like I love them so fiercely.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  So then I read this script where this woman is literally taking people out to protect her child. I'm like, okay, well, I've never killed anybody in real life. I'm not a trained assassin, but I understand that love. I understand that fierce motherhood, that mother instinct, that like I would do anything for you. And I understand making tough choices for your family that don't always feel good, but are the right thing to do. So I say, okay, I'm not a mercenary. I'm not a killer. I'm not a bi, but I do know a mother's love. So the inside out is like, I need, do I have the courage to reveal that kind of deep vulnerability

• 43:02Speaker 01

  that when you have a child, you become powerless? It's like that thing I've heard Obama say of like, your heart is suddenly on the outside of you, walking around in the world. Like, can I let people into that and be that? And then the outside in is like, okay, but now I have to learn like fight training and weapons training and how she walks and how does she dress? And, you know, how does she live in the world as somebody who's trained to kill people? And what kind of person becomes somebody who kills people for a living? And so there are like all these, and I know a little something about that, too, like the desperation part of me of feeling like you don't have options. Okay. So can I let people into that? So it's all, it's like a, like parts of me that do relate, bringing those forward, and then parts of me that don't relate, learning how to add those on.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:48Lewis Howes?

  Because I feel like all of us have some type of darkness in us.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:51Lewis Howes?

  So do you feel like you have to tap into that sometimes?

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Sometimes, yeah, absolutely. And sometimes it's really hard to shake at the end.

• 43:58Lewis Howes?

  Right? At night, you're like, you're feeling the adrenaline because you've become that energy.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Yes, you do. And I, I think before I got married and had kids, I was much more of like a method actor, meaning like I stayed in the characters all the time.

• 44:11Lewis Howes?

  For months?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Yes. And it was miserable, quite honestly. You know, it's like really hard and really wrecked havoc on my nervous system. When I got married and had kids, I was like, I need to figure out how to put this down. Like, I don't want to bring this home. I want to be able to have a healthy life outside. of work.

• 44:30Lewis Howes?

  What's the tools or process for letting go of the character?

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, some of it is ritual. Some at the end, like sometimes I try to, I really try to look at like the hair and makeup process and the costume process as very ritualistic. And so when I'm taking the clothes off at the end of the day, I'm taking the character off at the end of the day. Like I, I just did a movie where I was playing, it's a movie directed by Ben Affleck and he, he and I are husband and wife. And so, you know, every day at work, I have to take off my wedding ring. And I pin it to myself. I never not have it with me. So I always pin it to myself somewhere.

• 45:07Lewis Howes?

  When you're shooting, when you're filming.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. And then I have to take this other wedding ring, right? That belongs to the movie and I have to put on this other wedding ring. And now I'm in this marriage. So at the end of the day, it's really important to me to take off that wedding ring, take off that marriage. That's not my life and put my own ring back on.

• 45:26Lewis Howes?

  And this is fascinating because it's like a psychological process of becoming a different person.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  But I think it works in life too, right? Like when we give ourselves those rituals, like there's something if you, when you have a meditation practice, like again, I can pray, I pray and meditate anywhere, but there is something different about when I sit on that pillow in that corner of my bedroom and light that candle. There's a different kind of drop in, right? Like we have these cues that really allow us to signal to our body, different realities and different ways of being present.

• 46:02Lewis Howes?

  I feel like you've really had to train your nervous system to always come back home to safety. Because you're playing these characters and obviously it's make believe or character or it's movie making.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  The body doesn't know the difference.

• 46:15Lewis Howes?

  Adrenaline is heightened. It's in fear, it's in aggression, or it's in shooting, or whatever it's in, or it's in make believe love, whatever it is. And so your nervous system in your body, you have to psychologically like remove it somehow and get back to the spiritual alignment

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:31Lewis Howes?

  of your character in life.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and a lot of it is like being an athlete, you know, you have to really take care, you have to make sure because it wrecks havoc on your nervous system. The sleeping and the eating and the exercising, those practices are really, really important to maintain sanity. I remember after the second season of Scandal, I was like so depleted, so exhausted. And I went to my doctor and we did some blood work. And he was like, "Your adrenals are shot." Like, "What is going on?" And I was like, "What's going on?" I played this woman who like every single episode, somebody walks into my office on the worst day of their life, and I have to fix it. So my adrenals are shot, you know? Or we were doing a scene, some, you know, some crazy scene on Scandal

• 47:16Speaker 01

  where somebody was lying on the floor of the office, covered in blood, and we're all like screaming and holding them. And I was pregnant at the time.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  And so after every take, the other girls in the cast and myself, we would all put our hands on my belly. And we would say, "It's just pretend. It's just pretend."

• 47:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Because you, you know, you just have to remember. And like that little baby doesn't know the difference. That little baby is like, her heart is beating fast. Her adrenals are her cortisol, right? So I had to keep like going back and saying like, "We're OK. Just pretend." So I try to, that taught me that if I can do that for my baby, I have to do that for myself too, right? Like, I have to, on the way home, go like, "You're OK. That was pretend. Nobody's dying. Nobody's kidnapped. Nobody's, we're OK."

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  Man, do you feel like you've had a a new relationship with little Carrie?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:07Lewis Howes?

  With the girl inside of you that was growing up, kind of going through this, everything looks good on the outside, or, you know,

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:14Lewis Howes?

  "I'm taken care of, but emotionally, I don't feel taken care of."

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:18Lewis Howes?

  Like physically, you were taken care of.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  That's right. It's a beautiful way to put it.

• 48:22Lewis Howes?

  But emotionally, or maybe psychologically, there was a fracture.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  And so you didn't feel safe fully.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:29Lewis Howes?

  How have you repaired that relationship with little Carrie? And allowing her to feel safe, the way you were by putting your hands on your belly with your baby?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:39Lewis Howes?

  When she was going through

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:40Lewis Howes?

  the emotional uncertainty?

• 48:41Speaker 01

  So our mutual friend, Gabby Bernstein, who talks a lot about IFS work. That work has been transformational for me. And I just, I mean, I was familiar with IFS work and I'd done kind of inner child work with other therapists. But this year I really decided to make a pivot and do to work with an IFS therapist. And it has been life changing.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  Which for those that don't know, it's Internal Family Systems.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:11Lewis Howes?

  And so what has been the breakthrough or the self-awareness you've created in the process of Internal Family Systems work for yourself?

• 49:21Speaker 01

  It's so funny because in many ways I speak Internal Family Systems language as an actor, right? Because I am always dealing with these different parts of myself and bringing them forward.

• 49:31Lewis Howes?

  So interesting.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  So it's a really exciting way for me to understand the different parts of myself that still feel not enough on certain days or angry or resentful or afraid. Or IFS has really helped me to not identify wholly with those stories when they come up, right? Like, there's the story. Who's the part that's telling that story? How do I take care of that part and then move on, right? But like, I don't have to give my entire existence over to that, that part and that message and that story. I can kind of have some distance, which is very, you know, sort of Buddhist and

• 50:17Speaker 01

  but like to have some distance from the thought and to say like, I see you. I understand where that belief system is coming from, but it doesn't have to be the truth. It's like, I remember when I was like just starting therapy and I had this therapist who would say like, how do you feel? And I was like, oh, I just feel really fat. And she was like, fat is not a feeling. I was like, it's not? Because also I had grown up in a house where people would, where my mom, I heard my mom say like, I feel fat. And I, it was like a, she was like, what's underneath the feeling fat?

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  What was that?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Is it anger? Is it sadness? It's different. I think for me, feeling fat was often like just a

• 50:58Speaker 01

  It was like a crutch that I went to that would prevent me from getting to that next feeling underneath. I would make it about the body and not being enough as opposed to diving deeper into like, what is the feeling that needs to be addressed here?

• 51:17Lewis Howes?

  What was it in that moment for you? What was your sole feeling where you say, I'm feeling fat, but really was it the not enoughness? Was it fear? Was it anxiousness?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  I think usually the feeling fat is feeling unlovable, so therefore not enough.

• 51:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, sure.

• 51:36Lewis Howes?

  You feel unlovable at times?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  It happens, yeah. I don't live there. I mean, that's the great thing is that I don't, I don't live there, but I don't want to pretend that the thought doesn't come up.

• 51:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Because I'm really proud to have tools, to have tools and support systems that have helped me figure out what to do with the thought when it comes up or how to embrace it.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, how to navigate it.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, navigate.

• 52:06Lewis Howes?

  When you feel unlovable or not enough, is it not feeling lovable or enough with people on the outside of you or not feeling lovable within you?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I think it all goes back to spirit. I think it all goes back to like, am I loved by source, right? Like, am I lovable by God? Because when we don't feel lovable in ourselves in a spiritual way, then we need it externally from other people, whether that's in a relationship or from fans or from an employer or an employee or like whatever that looks like. But seeking that approval and love and acceptance and belonging externally is usually because I don't feel like I'm in alignment with the fact that I am loved, that like I am loved and okay, just as I am.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  But I like, because I think that's where the idea that I have to be somebody other than who I am, forgetting that who I am as I am is enough. I'm good. I am. But when we forget that, we're like, oh, I have to be something else. I have to, I have to be better. I have to be stronger. I have to be more successful. I have to be thinner, prettier, smarter, whatever it is. As opposed to like, I am good. I am blessed. I am loved. And I'm on a journey of excellence. So I'm willing to be bigger, better, smarter, more successful. But I don't have to be to earn anybody's love.

• 53:35Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  That's on a good day.

• 53:40Lewis Howes?

  I've got a couple of final minutes with you, Carrie. This has been really powerful. Two final questions for you. Before I ask those final questions, your new movie is out very soon, once this is released.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  May 9th, Mother's Day weekend.

• 53:52Lewis Howes?

  Mother's Day weekend.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  So celebrate all your bad moms and uplift all your bad dads.

• 53:57Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Power of parenting.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  Take your family out.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  Watch Shadow Force and make sure afterwards, you reveal all your dirty secrets within your family. And you open yourselves up so you can be emotionally free as well.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes, you can be physically and emotionally.

• 54:14Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. I'm excited for people to go watch it, Shadow Force. Two final questions for you. This is a hypothetical question I ask everyone.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:22Lewis Howes?

  I've been doing the show for 12 years.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Congratulations.

• 54:25Lewis Howes?

  Every week for 12 years.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 54:27Lewis Howes?

  And this is a question I ask people at the end. It's called the three truths. Imagine a hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want to live.

• 54:36Lewis Howes?

  But it's your last day on earth and you get to accomplish and create all of life's magic. But for whatever reason, everything you've created has to go with you. Your movies, your TV, this interview, books, anything you create is gone. So we don't have your information or your content anymore. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Three truths that you would share from your experiences of what you've learned. What would those three lessons or truths be for you?

• 55:04Speaker 01

  No matter who you are. You are enough. The truth is easier, even though it feels harder at times. And that there is true, true strength in vulnerability. There is no way to get strong without being willing to be vulnerable.

• 55:25Lewis Howes?

  I love those. If you could go 10 years in the future and give yourself one piece of advice today. And Carrie, 10 years in the future is looking at you and saying-

• 55:37Speaker 01

  I love this because normally people ask you to give advice to your younger self. But this is really great to project forward.

• 55:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, if you could imagine, you know, where you'll be in 10 years. Imagine where your family will be, your career will be. And all the things, the challenges, the ups and downs you're going to face in the next decade. What do you think your future self would tell you to set you up for success? Emotionally, spiritually, physically, financially, in the next decade?

• 56:07Speaker 01

  I think she would tell me to cherish every moment with the people I love most. You know, like to really, when you're with people that you love and or doing things that you love, be fully present. Because you're not going to get that back. And I think about like, oh my God, in 10 years, my kids, like, when I think about how old they'll be. In 10 years, you're like, oh, I need to be in this moment. And like, what things will I be complaining about in my body in 10 years? Like, be in this body and joy, right? Like, just like, really appreciate.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  It reminds me of, um, I went to this incredible film festival at San Quentin Prison. Our, we have a, my company, Simpson Street, we had a documentary called Daughters on Netflix. It's a really powerful documentary about dads who are incarcerated and- How they learn to be, obviously, this is a recurring theme for me, right? Like dads and parenting. And so it's about these amazing dads who they do a father-daughter dance in prison, where they get to take off their jumpsuits. And it's a really, really powerful documentary. Saad Quinton did their first annual film festival in the prison, where people brought outside content into the prison, but also prisoners made films that were shown at the festival. It was really powerful.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  And it was at a spectacular day. That warden is really progressive. It's a really special place. But as I was leaving, there's like this big line on the ground. I don't remember whether it was yellow or white. It was kind of faded, you know, worn down. But as you're saying bye, you're saying bye to the prisoners and thank you. And they were giving you tours and showing you their artwork and just like so much love. And then I crossed over that line. And, um, and they can't, right? Like, they can't cross over that line. And everybody's in like a good spirit and there's so much love, good vibes. It's a film festival. But one of them accidentally gets close to the line. And one of the guards is like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  And on the way home, I was thinking, you know, when I woke up this morning, I wasn't grateful for the places I can go. I wasn't thinking about hugging my husband first thing in the morning. I wasn't thinking about my freedom and my liberty. But when you're faced with the possibility of not having it, the value skyrockets, right? Like, I stepped over that line with this huge increased gratitude for my liberty, for my freedom, for my ability to go home and hug my husband, for my ability to listen to whatever music I want and wear whatever I want. Like, suddenly you get reminded of what to be grateful for.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  So I, I feel like that question is an invitation into that kind of gratitude, right? It's like, who knows where we'll be 10 years from now? But today, there's some really good stuff happening, so don't let it slip by you.

• 59:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, don't miss the moment. That's beautiful. That's some good advice from future Carrie. I gotta get you out of here. Final, final question before I ask you, Carrie. I want to acknowledge you for a moment for your healing journey.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 59:27Lewis Howes?

  For the journey of allowing yourself to feel safe again, for allowing yourself to heal, for allowing yourself to have a beautiful relationship with your family, your extended family, your current family, and to allow yourself to really be a star in your life and create the career you want, but also create the privacy, the safety, and the love you want personally. So I acknowledge you for all of it. It's really cool to connect and get to meet you and hopefully we'll get you back on in the future with the next big movie and stuff. But this is an amazing starting conversation. I'm so glad you were open and shared, and this is gonna help heal a lot of people, so I appreciate you.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  I'm so grateful. And I just, I wanna say, one of the things we say at Simpson Street is, you know, we believe that every single person is the lead character in the story of their lives. And so I love that you, with this work, I feel like you really encourage people to live that way. You encourage people to place themselves at the center of their journey and be the star of their own story. So thank you for that.

• 1:00:28Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah. My final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Offering up the best of what you have, moment to moment. Yeah. It's like, if it's the best, if you're giving the best of what you have, then that's what today's greatness looks like.

• 1:00:45Lewis Howes?

  Kerry Washington, thank you so much.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  Powerful. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I wanna remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  And now, it's time to go out there and do something great.