"Little Joe would’ve watched Heartstopper in secret!" Joe Locke: queer representation matters

Joe Locke was doing his A levels on the Isle of Man when Heartstopper came out on Netflix. Two days later he had 3 million new Instagram followers. In this chat, Fearne and Joe both share their experiences of being thrust into the spotlight as teenagers, and how it’s affected them mentally. He explores his fear that his success might just be a fluke, and why he's so keen to prove he belongs in the industry. They also chat about how vital it is to have LGBTQ+ representation like Heartstopper on TV, and why Joe came out twice. Plus, what can we all learn from Joe’s experience of having to grow up fast about giving ourselves permission to be young and messy? You can watch Joe in Heartstopper Forever on Netflix now. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Olly Alexander https://pod.fo/e/28dfd0 Chris Appleton https://pod.fo/e/390271 Julian Clary https://pod.fo/e/2b6890 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and a huge welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that gives you space to figure out who you are. Today I'm chatting to Joe Locke.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I think little Joe would have benefited from Heartstopper, but I think little Joe would have probably made fun of Heartstopper because he wanted to survive in a very certain system. But I think he would have watched it in secret. I did one, Heartstopper came out, I remember going back to my school and a lot of the younger students. I think there's a lot more acceptance for self-expression in younger people than even when I was at school, which was only five years ago than there was when I was 12.

• 0:38Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god, you find me in such a good mood today, guys. And I hope that you feel the same. Doesn't matter if you're not, because there's plenty of episodes of this where I'm in a shit mood. That's also absolutely fine. But I am still 100% buzzing on life from the Happy Place Festival London that just took place last weekend. I don't even know how to sum it up. I don't even know if I've processed it yet. I mean, what I will start by saying is the biggest thank you ever to not only all the brilliant teachers, facilitators, practitioners, speakers that we had there, but to any of you lovely lot that came along as festival revelers and tried to walk around and meet as many of you as possible.

• 1:20Fearne Cotton?

  People that had come from like the northern tip of Scotland, people coming from the most southern tip of Cornwall. Someone flew from San Diego, which blew my mind. But I'm so grateful because the energy was perfect and amazing. And it was brilliant because of everyone that was there. That's what makes a place special, the people. And I'm still totally high on life from the whole thing. I had one moment where I actually really took in my surroundings. I don't often get the opportunity because it's just so manic when I'm there. But I was stood watching Lucas Jones, who PS is going to be a guest on the podcast soon. He was reading some poetry in the expressive arts area.

• 2:03Fearne Cotton?

  And I just stood there watching the crowd. There were people like wiping tears away. Someone was flying a kite over here. I could hear music playing from the centre stage. I could hear laughter over to my right. And I just had this amazing moment of like, wow. This is, this is really cool. Um, it was just beautiful and I had a little cry. I had a little weep to myself. It was a beautiful moment. And I also want to say the most heartfelt thank you to Team Happy Place, who are just the absolute best. They're like, there's, they're an unrivalled team. My god, every single person who helped to quite literally build the festival

• 2:45Fearne Cotton?

  from the ground up, but also organise it on the day, from the speakers to the classes that were happening, to the social media, to the audio we recorded. Everyone is just the best and we're on their A game. So, I'm over the moon. I'm absolutely, and we're gonna do it all again in September in Manchester. So, I get to do it all again and I'm really happy about that. So I'm buzzing today. I'm tired. I've got a bit of a croaky voice. I feel like my voice is an octave lower than normal, but I, I feel croaky and happy. And I was so excited about this chat today with the brilliant Joe. Joe is obviously best known for his role as Charlie in Heartstopper, and he's since become one of the

• 3:23Fearne Cotton?

  most recognisable young LGBTQ plus actors globally. And now he's back in the farewell film, Heartstopper Forever. Oh my god, I've, I've been lucky enough to see it before it came out. And it is, it's heart wrenching and so beautiful and reminded me of being young. I was like vicariously living through these characters. We talk about a lot in this, navigating sudden fame at such a young age. And obviously I've got my own weird experience of starting in the TV industry at a young age. So I was interested to have that, that chat with Joe. We talked about the fun of your mum watching you on screen during a sex scene. What an awful moment

• 4:05Fearne Cotton?

  for poor Joe. Also, other career aspirations that he had that I think might surprise you. And why he'll only choose projects that align with his values in future. What a lovely, lovely human being Joe is. Also, some great goss about how Joe actually spent his time at the Heartstopper premiere just last week.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Everybody, listen up.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade-in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Edition terms apply for all offers.

• 4:58Speaker 04

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• 5:03Speaker 05

  I'm Jordan North.

• 5:04Speaker 04

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• 5:07Speaker 05

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• 5:09Speaker 04

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• 5:31Fearne Cotton?

  Now, before we get to Joe, obviously I was wanging on about how much fun I had at the Happy Place Festival at the weekend. Tickets for Gulp 2027 Happy Place Festival in London are available now. Why waste time? If you had a lovely time this year, or maybe you've seen on social media what we got up to, and you think, I want a bit of that, you can get your tickets now. Just head to happyplaceofficial.co.uk. All the info's there and the tickets. Right, here we go. This is it. Here's the show.

• 6:25Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, lovely Joe.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 6:26Fearne Cotton?

  How are you?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I'm good, thanks. How are you?

• 6:28Fearne Cotton?

  I'm good, fresh from your premiere last night.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Fresh is the right word there.

• 6:33Fearne Cotton?

  That suit was excellent.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you.

• 6:36Fearne Cotton?

  Did you feel powerful in it?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  I felt very powerful. I felt like, yeah, powerful and hot.

• 6:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love wearing a suit.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 6:44Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best feeling.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  I want, I should wear a dress and maybe then I'll, then I'll feel.

• 6:48Fearne Cotton?

  No, suits are better. Suits, there's something about suits, very grounding.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I felt like I was the boss bitch.

• 6:54Fearne Cotton?

  You were the boss bitch. I mean, walking those red carpets is horrendous as anyone. It's just the worst thing ever. Terrifying, you feel sort of exposed.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Everyone staring at you and.

• 7:03Fearne Cotton?

  Staring at you.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but not, everyone's staring at you but not talking to you.

• 7:07Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  They just sort of look at you and then I was like, oh, where do I go?

• 7:12Fearne Cotton?

  So unnerving.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:13Fearne Cotton?

  So having a good suit, a powerful suit is the way forward.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 7:17Fearne Cotton?

  How was it? Did you actually sit and watch the film last night?

• 7:19Speaker 01

  So I wasn't going to and then I got there and I was like, oh, it'd be really nice to watch with all my family and my friends. And then got onto the screen and I've never seen such a big cinema screen in my life. It was the, it was the most humongous screen. And then it got to, there's a scene in the film where I get a blowjob.

• 7:38Fearne Cotton?

  I've seen it.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Great.

• 7:40Fearne Cotton?

  Not on a big screen, on a normal screen.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  See that bit, you just see my face and some noises and I looked, my mum was sat next to me and I was like, no, I can't do this. I just got up and left. I, I, I lasted a good fifteen, twenty minutes.

• 7:54Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it's not normal, is it, that your mum watches you getting a blowjob?

• 7:57Speaker 01

  And it's, no, I hope it's not normal.

• 7:59Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's not. It's not.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:02Fearne Cotton?

  Even a fake blowjob, it's not normal.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just the, oh.

• 8:06Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:08Fearne Cotton?

  And what is your mum just kind of like looking ahead, pretending it's not happening?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Pissing herself laughing.

• 8:12Fearne Cotton?

  Brilliant. That's what we love.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Laughing, it was.

• 8:15Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  It was just great. Um, but then I just left and had a drink and I, well then I had two tequilas in the bar. And then came back in for the last half an hour of the film and then forgot that they were making us do a Q and A afterwards. And I was like, I'm drunk now. I'm really drunk. So I think I was just very quiet in the Q and A, doing a lot of nodding.

• 8:34Fearne Cotton?

  That's so good.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:35Fearne Cotton?

  Strange being an actor, isn't it?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  It's a weird life.

• 8:38Fearne Cotton?

  So odd.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  So odd.

• 8:40Fearne Cotton?

  So odd, but so exciting.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I get to live my dream and that's.

• 8:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 8:46Fearne Cotton?

  It's beautiful. And also you exec produced this film as well.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I did.

• 8:49Fearne Cotton?

  That's a nice string to your bow.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nice to have your opinions listened to because they have to.

• 8:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  But it was a very, it ended up being a very collaborative, I felt like it was like we'd graduated into those roles of, and the story has always been so like collaborative anyway. So it was just sort of the nice next step.

• 9:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and it's such a moving, heart, like gut wrenching film at times. And it, it, it's sort of, I'm in my mid 40s now, but it dragged me back to all of those feelings of being young and navigating, you know, what your life is gonna look like and trying to imagine it and trying to create that forward motion of like, this is the person that I wanna become. You depicted that perfectly in the film.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 9:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's been weird because I feel like my growing up and becoming an adult has like sort of mirrored the show and the characters and the journey and, because we started that show almost five years ago. And yet it still feels like we're like the new kids in town. We're very much not. Baffled to do this rising star party every year. And this year, me and my friends were like, oh, let's go. And my publicist was like, I'm not sure, I don't think you need to go to that one anymore. And I was like, no, no, it'll be fun. It'll be great. Got there and we were like the oldest people there. And we knew, we knew everyone. And all these like young, new shiny things were in here. And I felt like I was like in this with a cigarette in the corner like,

• 10:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you're the old man now, Bets.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  That was me before. Now I'm the washed out old thing. But it was nice in that it was like, oh, like, I'm not the new kid anymore. And that's actually a nice thing. Like, I know all these people here. And like, I remember going into that party four years ago and being like, uh, what is this?

• 10:34Fearne Cotton?

  That is a good feeling. I mean, much like how you depict in the film, that moment of, you know, in, in the film, your characters are going to university, but that thing of you are the small fish and you're, you're starting in this big pond. And the same in the acting world that, you know, you go to a red carpet, you go to a party. Everybody's, you know, familiar with the environment and each other. And you've got to kind of pretend and, and go along with like, oh, I'm okay.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  And no one tells you what to do in those scenarios.

• 11:01Fearne Cotton?

  No, terrifying. And now you're like,

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's just easy peasy.

• 11:05Fearne Cotton?

  Another party. I've got this. Did you enjoy revisiting Heartstopper, making the film, being back with your cast members and friends?

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it always feels like, like going back to school or like going back to boarding school after, not that I've got any idea what that's like, but like going, like going home in a way. Cause most of the crew was always the same throughout the four different times we'd done it. And all the cast always came back and it felt just comfortable and nice.

• 11:33Fearne Cotton?

  And how's it, now you're in the bit just prior to the film being released and you've got red carpets and you've got press and you've got the hysteria. There is a hysteria about Heartstopper that, you know, that doesn't happen so often that a show creates such fandom and people going absolutely nuts for it. And you're at the epicenter of that. What, what's that like for you?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Weirdly like normal now. Like I think when, when it first happened and the show came out and it sort of blew up, it took a few years to adjust to the changes in my life and, and changes in what I share on social media and how much I want to say and what the public persona of Joe is compared to what me as an actual person is like. And I went through, like at first it was like, I'm gonna post everything, give everything. And then I almost went after like six months, I was like, oh no, this is too much. And then did the complete opposite and like didn't post it on social media for like a year. And now I feel like I'm in like a happy medium where I, I, I know my boundaries.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  I know what I like about it, what I don't like about it and which is nice. But it's, it's just weird. It's a weird, weird in a good way, but it's a weird situation to be in.

• 12:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And I guess because you can never anticipate with a brand new show, although there's obviously, the Heartstopper was popular before the TV show was made. You can't guarantee that's gonna translate and that there's gonna be that hysteria around a TV show. So. To an extent, you weren't prepared for what came after the show was released.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Not at all. I mean, we were, we made the show on like a shoestring budget and Netflix were like, oh, this is nice. But I like, I don't think it's, they would mind me saying that. I don't think they had any idea that it would explode in the way it did. And so we didn't do any press for, we did like half a day of press for season one. We did like little bits here and there. And then the show came out and then suddenly I had like, I gained like three million Instagram followers in two days.

• 13:39Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is crazy. And yeah, I was still back in the Isle of Man doing my A levels. And so it was a very, yeah, there's absolutely no way you can prepare for it, but we were especially unprepared for it.

• 13:52Fearne Cotton?

  That's wild. I mean, that's a really tricky thing to navigate, certainly when you're not expecting it. And to go quite literally from like, you're doing your A levels to you've got millions of people wanting to know your business, all eyes on you. Did that mentally take its toll? Cause like, I'm in my mid 40s and I've been doing this job a long time and it still fucks me up in head constantly.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:14Fearne Cotton?

  The level of, I don't know, sometimes I just feel like I'm absolutely losing the plot. Like, I don't know.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's definitely still elements and times where it feels like that. And at the time, I think at the time it was like so alien and so not real that it didn't almost like.

• 14:33Fearne Cotton?

  It's too abstract.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just, wasn't a real thing. Cause I was just this 17 year old, 18 at that point, like kid from the Isle of Man. Like this isn't, it's not real life. And whereas now it's like, oh no, this, this definitely is real life.

• 14:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Been a long dream if it's, if I'm still not waking up.

• 14:48Fearne Cotton?

  Correct. I can pinch you real hard and we can see if it is. What did the people around you back home, you know, what was their reaction to it? Because often you can remain the same, but other people can project onto you that you're a bit different now, that you've changed in some way. Even though you feel exactly the same as you did.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  I. I've always had amazing friends around me and like all my best friends before from home are still my best friends. I live with one of them now, which is great. And they always, in fact, I remember one of my best friends saying to someone, like, you know what, Joe, like, I actually think this has made you have less of an ego. Before you were a bit of, you're a bit of an asshole, but now you can, now you're actually, so now you have to check your ego. It's actually less than it was.

• 15:37Fearne Cotton?

  That's hilarious.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Which is great. Thanks. I'm happy that.

• 15:41Fearne Cotton?

  Well, it does bring about this really weird acute level of self-awareness that, you know, you don't have to necessarily have that in such a magnified way if you're not seen by lots of people and exposed to lots of people in terms of, you know, like you say, how you're using social media or what they think of you or what they believe you're all about. So you have to, like, in a setting like this, everything we're saying now is being heard by lots of people that we don't know.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:09Fearne Cotton?

  And they can then make an assumption of who you are as a person based on this. So you do start to almost overthink everything that comes out of your mouth, every outfit that you put on, everything you post on social media is so overthought that it's actually quite hard to then let your guard down and relax and go, oh my God, or like, what is the distinction between the you at work and the you at home?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is, it's something that I definitely have struggled with. But I think I've realised recently, I just don't care. In like, in a way of like, sometimes if those things blur, then that's okay. And next time, it doesn't have to. And there's also, there doesn't have to be like a distinct huge difference in those things. Because I think if you try and compartmentalise your life into those completely two different things, then, then it becomes like, just exhausting.

• 16:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  So like, like I would say the Joe at work and Joe at home are, they are the same person and very similar. Just maybe the Joe at work wouldn't like, scratch my bum and wouldn't have had an itch. I just did. Although I literally just did it, so.

• 17:13Fearne Cotton?

  Feel free.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:15Fearne Cotton?

  I've heard you talk previously about how bits of your. Not necessarily childhood, but your your teendom and being a young person, bits of your life. You you sort of miss because you're all of a sudden in this machine that is making a TV show, doing the press for it. You're on to the next one. Other opportunities are coming about. You've got all the furor around the TV show coming out. So you miss certain little milestones that other young people might go through. How does that make you feel?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  It's, I think it like, it's like sacrificing little things for the opportunity to do my dream job and live the life I always wanted to live. Like, I didn't go to university, but I don't, didn't need to. And I would have loved to go on to university and I still think I wonder, do want to get a degree. But right now, this journey is taking me and that's, and I want to follow that. Or like, all the little things like, if I go to a club with my friends, you know, it's just, it's just slightly different for me experience. Because while people are very respectful and nice, I can see that person if they're looking at me for a little bit too long because they're trying to figure out if they know who I am. And I don't know, it's, it's just, you know, you make adjustments.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  But I think that maybe like three years ago, it really affected me and that I wouldn't, just wouldn't do things because I was worried about always being recognised or like things being online, about me being drunk and silly. And whereas now, I have a rule to myself that I won't not do something because I'm worried about that. If that, if that means I have to do it whilst wearing a cap or doing something else or like just like adjustment to make it more comfortable for myself, then I will do that. But I'm not going to not do things because of that. Because also, I get to do so many amazing things because of it. And I get to go to so many amazing places and meet so many amazing people that I don't, I used to see the, the sacrifice is not the right word.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Because it's not a sacrifice to have to wear a cap and somewhere like get life. But, but I used to see them as like negatives, whereas now it's like, well, it's just, it's just part of it and you get used to it and you, yeah.

• 19:17Fearne Cotton?

  And also. Who gives a fuck?

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Who cares? Also, no one cares, is what I've also learnt.

• 19:22Fearne Cotton?

  No one cares. And even if, you know, even if the shit hits the fact like someone posts a picture or something is in the papers, like, we're all human, giving it our best shot. And sometimes you wanna go out and get shitfaced in a club, like, who cares?

• 19:37Speaker 01

  It's fun to laugh at articles about you in the sun.

• 19:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, exactly. I mean, you have to, otherwise you will cry, you'll cry. I totally hear you. I didn't go to uni either, because I started work at sixteen. And my own experience of starting in TV so young, I mean, I think it does fuck you in the head in some ways.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 19:57Fearne Cotton?

  It just does, you know, I think they're missing out on, you know, those sorts of, the stuff where you can be messy, when you're meant to be messy in life, and like, make big mistakes and whatever. I think it feels, again, it's not like a big sacrifice, I don't wanna over dramatise it. But I do think, for me, it personally fucked me in the head, without a doubt.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  I think it makes you, you go from being, like, you were sixteen, I was seventeen. You go from being sixteen, seventeen year old, actual genuine teenager, and then suddenly you're a full adult, without those years of, of making the mistakes and doing the things that people do in the ages of like seventy to twenty five. Like, whenever I meet people, they're always like, oh, you're such an old wise soldier. And it's like, yeah, because I had to be a thirty five year old when I was seventeen, so.

• 20:39Fearne Cotton?

  It's so true. And you're, you're not only surrounded by adults in the workplace, you know, we both were. You, you, you're instantly working with people way older than you. And you don't want it to feel just like a maternal paternal relationship. You wanna feel like on some level with the people you're working with. So you do up age. But simultaneously, I felt infantilised by the industry and by the job itself. So I felt five, but fifty five.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:06Fearne Cotton?

  And it was just the weirdest thing. And it's taken me years, I reckon until, like, the last few years, where I've gone, you're in, you're in your forties, and that's where you're at.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:17Fearne Cotton?

  Like, that's just where you're at. You don't need to be the little lost kid version of you. Or that I'm trying to be really adult, or, you know, I'm. Paying my parents' rent and I'm sixteen.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 21:28Fearne Cotton?

  With responsibility kind of thing. It's such a strange dynamic.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I often talk about how like in the entertainment industry, there's no other job where you can be the youngest person in the room, but yet have the most power.

• 21:44Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Like, if I go on to set and if I don't want something to happen, as much as I would never, because that's deverian thing, like if it's just what it won't happen. If I say I don't like that, then that. I would never do that, but knowing that one could at such a young age, especially when like, if you're being thrust into this world, you've got no idea what it is. Like, I understand now, I can see very clearly how like people like who don't have the right support systems in place, just go.

• 22:12Fearne Cotton?

  Off the rails. Yeah, totally. And the thing that stops you, I think, is your upbringing.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:18Fearne Cotton?

  And I've got a mum that would have at any point and still would go, shut the fuck up.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, same.

• 22:23Fearne Cotton?

  Like, sort your shit out. You were raised by a single mum.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:27Fearne Cotton?

  How do you think how she raised you has informed how you're navigating all of this craziness?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, my mum is amazing and she takes no bullshit.

• 22:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, good.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  But she's also the kindest, most lovely person in the world. She's a primary school teacher. And I think bringing a primary school teacher is probably one of the hardest jobs in the world and I could never do it.

• 22:48Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Um, but she does it and she loves it and she loves kids and she's, yeah, she always, she was a great mum and I had her, her sisters as well, who would. There and I had a very like women centric upbringing.

• 23:03Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  It was great.

• 23:04Fearne Cotton?

  A village of women.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:05Fearne Cotton?

  All the witches.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 23:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's my favourite.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08Fearne Cotton?

  It's so good. And it's funny, what age do you think you got to where you saw your mum and maybe your aunties as humans? Because there is this like weird moment in adulthood where you can recognise, yes, this is my mum and these are her traits and this is how she parents me, but you're also like. My god, she lived this whole life before I came along. And there's a human there that's got their stories and their issues and. The strength they have. At what point did you start seeing that, do you think?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. I mean, I think my mum has always been, one of the things I love about my mum is she's always been so honest with me. I think that she was a teacher and she always talks about how like children are the most far more resilient than adults and how we we like infantilize kids too much and don't tell them about things and they don't learn about things. So she never hid anything away from me, obviously like age appropriately, but um and so I think I saw her as a human quite early on, which is is great.

• 24:04Fearne Cotton?

  I like that style of parenting and, you know, I'm a parent, so I'm constantly trying to navigate that. Like, how much do you say? How honest should you be?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:15Fearne Cotton?

  But you on the receiving end of that, that's been a real plus that she's just had adult chat with you about stuff.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, like if I asked about something, she would tell me and I I mean, obviously there's like certain things, but like I I never felt like I she allowed me to be curious, which I think is a very good thing.

• 24:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Was there a point when you were a kid when you said, I want to be an actor, mum? This is this is for me?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, numerous times. And she was like, okay, darling. And the Isle of Man has a very great Amdram scene. And so I I remember when I was six, I auditioned for The Wizard of Oz and I got a call back, but it was just too much. And I started crying and couldn't go back in. And then it was like three or four years later, I was like, oh, I want to try it again. And mum was like, are you sure, darling? And then, yeah. And then she ended up having to then take me to like rehearsals every night after work and like on the bus because she didn't drive. And she sacrificed a lot of her, but now she's making up for it. So.

• 25:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, she's loving it. It's so great. She must be unbelievably proud.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Yes, she is.

• 25:10Fearne Cotton?

  So proud.

• 25:45Speaker 06

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• 26:16Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 26:17Speaker 07

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 26:19Fearne Cotton?

  And this is Boots Off.

• 26:22Speaker 07

  We are friends who have spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts, and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 26:30Fearne Cotton?

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 26:37Speaker 07

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 26:40Fearne Cotton?

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 26:42Speaker 07

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 26:45Speaker 06

  Listen every Thursday, just search for Boots Off.

• 26:53Fearne Cotton?

  So Isle of Man's got a great am drum scene. I didn't know this.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yes, it does.

• 26:56Fearne Cotton?

  So you're, you're doing theatre shows on the Isle of Man. You're getting a taste for it. This is what you want to do. What were your dreams at that point? What could you envisage for yourself? Because you've clearly manifested it, whatever you're pitching.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I wanted to be in the West End. I wanted to be in musicals, but I can't dance is the big, is the big draw there. That was my like passion. And then as I got a bit older, I'd seen friends who are incredibly talented, move to London, go to Artseid, go to Lambda, do the drama schools and then have to move home after a few years because they couldn't afford to live in London because it's

• 27:30Fearne Cotton?

  A joke.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  expensive place to live. And I didn't want that because I was also quite academic at school and I loved learning. And I also was very passionate about politics and journalism and history. And so I was like, oh, I'll just get a degree in politics and history. And then my dream, my other dream, double than being an actor, was to be a political correspondent at the BBC. Because I was like, that's a bit like acting. It's like.

• 27:55Fearne Cotton?

  I love that for you.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, like, that was, that was my life. So then I started focusing on that for a bit. And then Heartstopper did an open call so anyone could audition.

• 28:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  I was like, ah, fuck it, why not? Let's just have a go. And then, then everything just sort of happened very quickly after that.

• 28:09Fearne Cotton?

  Isn't that so mad? Like those moments of fate. It's so bonkers.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  It is very, very weird.

• 28:16Fearne Cotton?

  When you went into that audition, well, you've done the, you've done the audition, you've, you've gone back home. Did you have a little feeling like, that felt pretty good?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yes, I, I think I sort of knew.

• 28:26Fearne Cotton?

  Did you?

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Just like the way everyone was acting and, yeah, I, I had to guess. And then, cause it was during Covid, so I then had to go back to the Isle of Man and self-isolate in my house on my own, because if you left the Isle of Man, you had to, there were some very strict rules.

• 28:42Fearne Cotton?

  Why?

• 28:42Speaker 01

  And so I found out I got the part and it was just me alone in my house.

• 28:45Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, no.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  My mum had to stay at my grandma's house. She was on FaceTime. It's like, ah, great, cool.

• 28:50Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God. But then I'm imagining you had more time to process it.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had, well, then I had like a week and a half left I had to self-isolate for. And then I had to leave three days after that to start filming. So.

• 29:02Fearne Cotton?

  My God.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  It was all very fast.

• 29:03Fearne Cotton?

  Such a whirlwind. So up until then, you'd been doing mainly theatre?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like all amateur, didn't do any screen and stuff.

• 29:11Fearne Cotton?

  And that is a leap, isn't it, to then go into the, you know, huge TV show?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it was. But I think at the time, cause it didn't seem like a huge, like, no one thought it would be a huge TV show until three days after it came out. It was always a very little thing. And then, which I think helped the first season be as sweet as it was, because we were all, had no idea what we were stepping into.

• 29:33Fearne Cotton?

  Kind of in a delightful situation, to not have that anticipation. Did you have nerves walking on set for the first time?

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I did. It's, it's weird. I like that whole first season of filming, I sort of don't remember very much. Um, because it was so long ago and so like a blur.

• 29:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  But I remember that first day, I remember our first scene with me, Toby and Willie play Isaac and Tao, um, my best friends. And it was just on a bench. And I remember like walking out of this school, abandoned school in Slough that we filmed in. And there was like one camera on a little boom up thing and like some lights. And I was like, this is the most crazy thing ever. Now, if I was walking out, I'd be like, oh, alright.

• 30:17Fearne Cotton?

  The huge.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Even that, I'd be like, oh God, is that it? Is that what we have today?

• 30:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Um, but then it was like, wow, this is the biggest thing ever.

• 30:25Fearne Cotton?

  So amazing. It's such a cool thing to think back to, like, that's, that was the birth of it all. That's the start of it.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  That was, it was, yeah.

• 30:34Fearne Cotton?

  And then this is kind of the end.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  This is the end. This is it. Yeah.

• 30:39Fearne Cotton?

  How does that feel?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Bittersweet in the, I think the show was very ready to end.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  I could have gone on making that show forever, but I think there's nothing worse than when things like last too long. And like, clearly it's like you're 45 playing a 20 year old, like, come on, let's.

• 30:57Fearne Cotton?

  In Greece.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's just, let's go in Greece. Let's go with our head held high. But it, yeah, it feels, it feels like sending a kid to university. Like, it's ready. We're ready. Everyone's ready, but it's still a bit sad.

• 31:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's maybe something like in 10 years, you'll really feel like, oh, my God, that was just the most gorgeous era.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 31:17Fearne Cotton?

  You're still in it.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:19Fearne Cotton?

  Until it's done, done, done.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  But it's weird, like last night, the premiere, everyone was asking me this and I sort of just, it doesn't feel like it's, I think it probably hit me in like two weeks.

• 31:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  When I'm just sat at home, be like, oh shit, that's it, done.

• 31:33Fearne Cotton?

  Maybe you need to like properly say goodbye to Charlie in some way.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I will.

• 31:37Fearne Cotton?

  Say goodbye to that character.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I know.

• 31:39Fearne Cotton?

  Cause he's gone.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  He's gone.

• 31:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  For now.

• 31:42Fearne Cotton?

  For now. I mean, you always, I guess, have that fondness in your heart for Heartstopper.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:48Fearne Cotton?

  It being the catalyst for everything is such a unique, special experience to have that. Do you think, because there is something so amazing about having that first opportunity to, your foot's in the door, like you are, you're in now and you're just like now, like, I remember that feeling again of like, oh my God, right, I'm, I'm, I'm doing it. I'm TV presenting. I'm in. Now I need to stay in. And, and, and you sort of for a bit, forget about the high of that first moment of, oh my God, I'm, I'm through the door. Like I've, I've done it. You've never done it, obviously, but like, I'm in, I'm in. And I don't actually think.

• 32:28Fearne Cotton?

  That you can recreate that high again. I think after that, it's just you wanna stay in it.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:36Fearne Cotton?

  There's something very special about that first thing, that first moment.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Well, it it becomes like from being like the special new thing to like your life.

• 32:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  And like your normal.

• 32:46Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Um, I think there's always that, like, I think now I'm in a place where I'm like, okay, now I need to find the thing that's gonna make sure I stay here. Cause I think cause Heartstopper, I got so unconventionally, there's always been a part of me since then. And I've done other jobs and I feel like I have solidified myself, my place in the industry. But there's still that thing of like, well, I didn't train and so I need to like prove that I I'm not just a fluke and will stay here. And I guess this is part of it is like the like, like I always say, like, like the Harry Potter, the guys who did Harry Potter, there's like, they spent the rest of their next 10 years trying to shake Harry Potter.

• 33:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  And it's not that I want to shake heartstopper at all. It's just I don't, I definitely don't wanna be defined by it.

• 33:25Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  But I think it's like, it's like, it's like the Miley Cyrus, it's the.

• 33:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  And I don't think I'm gonna go and get naked on a wrecking ball, but.

• 33:32Fearne Cotton?

  You could.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  I could.

• 33:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 33:36Fearne Cotton?

  Still time.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  It's still time.

• 33:38Fearne Cotton?

  It's such an interesting thing because I don't think that feeling ever really goes for anybody in terms of like, whether you call it imposter syndrome or just the feeling that, oh, everybody else knows what they're doing apart from me. I don't think that ever goes. And maybe that's not a bad thing. I think it's often the people that are so comfy in, I've nailed it, I deserve to be here, are could be complacent or or could take it for granted or, I don't know, I I don't think it's a negative.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I agree.

• 34:11Fearne Cotton?

  I've sat and chatted to so many people who have been doing their careers for years and years and years, couldn't be more qualified. And there's still that little feeling of. Or like even if it's not in this industry, like CEOs are going to do like, you know, talks in different banks or big companies and you've got CEOs leading huge teams and there is still that feeling of why, like, is it okay that I'm the one telling, like delegating and telling people what to do or at the top of the tree or I think it's a healthy thing to have if you can keep it in check.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  I agree. I think use it.

• 34:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Use it to propel you.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:49Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you, as you say, you've done lots of other things, one of them being Broadway, which is a huge deal. Like that is if you want to act on stage, it doesn't get any bigger.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  No, definitely doesn't get any. Broadway is, the West End is amazing, but there's an energy that New York and Broadway and the culture of that brings that is just unparalleled. It's, yeah, I think also for me doing it, that was when I wanted to do a musical. So when I was younger, like that was my passion and so then do a Sondheim musical on Broadway was, was very, very cool.

• 35:23Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. What was that first show like? I would have shit my pants.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Terrifying. That was the most scared I was for the first one. Cause I was like, well, everyone is obviously going to record it on their phones. And so as long as I hit the notes in this song, in this show, cause I think at that point, I knew I could sing the song, but I haven't, I didn't know anyone ever heard me sing in public. I were like, and so it was a very, I don't know. I think actually weirdly though, I was the least nervous. Like I think my team were far more nervous because my agent was like, are you sure you can, can you sing, Joe? And I was like, yeah, I can sing this song.

• 35:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. It says on my CV, I can sing.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. This, this song specifically, I can, I practiced, I can get it. It's good. And when the first show was done, or even like I hit, there's a top A flat in one of the songs and I was like.

• 36:05Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know what that is, but it sounds really high.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  It's, yeah, it's quite, it's quite high.

• 36:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  But it's like my money note. I think everyone's got their one note that's like, and I'm like, that's the one I can.

• 36:14Fearne Cotton?

  That's the one.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  And so as soon as I got that note out and then end of the song that I was singing, I like hugged into Sutton Foster, who was playing Miss Lovett. And I just was like, oh, thank God, it's done. And now I can, my first show was a matinee as well, which is rude to do a first show on a matinee.

• 36:30Fearne Cotton?

  That is rude.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:32Fearne Cotton?

  You want the nighttime excitement, not the afternoon energy.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  No, also your voice, I wanted to.

• 36:37Fearne Cotton?

  Warm the hell up.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 36:39Fearne Cotton?

  Um, it's such a scary thing. I love going to the theatre more than anything and I love watching all manner of shows. And I'm always in complete and utter awe at the liveness. It doesn't get any more live in terms of every movement, every word, every stutter, every breath is seen and heard by a huge willing audience. And on Broadway, that is magnified by a million because it's, they go there for the cream of the crop. This is the best, best show you're gonna get on earth. How, how, how are you coping with that pressure of, I cannot mess up?

• 37:11Speaker 01

  I think honestly, I was just having such the best time when I was doing it. And like, I had the, a moment where I was like, I was on the subway on the way to work with my tote bag and my iced coffee. And like, the subway went past like a poster of my show that I was in. And I was like, this is, this is the coolest thing that's ever happened to me. Like walking in through stage door into this Broadway, huge Broadway theatre. My dressing room, and I could see like Times Square out the window. It's just like, wow, this is, this is, this is the coolest thing ever.

• 37:41Fearne Cotton?

  That's out of body experience.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. But then the whole five months I was doing that was just that every day. It was great. Living in New York, amazing.

• 37:48Fearne Cotton?

  I love New York.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  It's the best.

• 37:50Fearne Cotton?

  And what about, I, I always wonder this again with, when I go and see shows, there, there is a monotony to doing a show like that. You are doing the same thing.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:59Fearne Cotton?

  Every day, twice a day, certain days. How, you know, how, how, how are you coping with that? Like, you've got the same lines to read. You need to bring this, a, a level of excitement, but you're doing the same thing every day.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that, it's weird. When I did, I did, so I did Sweeney Todd on Broadway two years ago, and then I did a play in the West End last year. And even though Sweeney Todd was a, almost three hour musical, I found that way less, not monotonous. Like, the play wasn't monotonous, but there were a few shows in, in the play, even though it was 90 minutes and it was straight through that, like, I'd come off stage and I'd be like, whoa, that was like, I just did the thing and I, like, it was almost like not there because I was so tired. Whereas with Sweeney, I, there was only a few times that I was like, whoa, that's just, I'm not sure I could do. Like, there are people who do theatre for, like, the same show for years. I, I definitely couldn't, I couldn't do that. Um, not that my agent would let me do that.

• 38:53Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  But, but I, I think, I think, I, my max would be like six months, I think I could do.

• 38:58Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  But even then, that's, it's still, it's a long time.

• 39:00Fearne Cotton?

  And it's an amazing discipline.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, when I went to Broadway, that was the first thing, I was like, all these people are so talented and so disciplined and so fit.

• 39:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  And I was like, I, I, none of those things, so.

• 39:15Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you can see why a lot of actors do that flip flop between they'll do a film, they'll do a TV show, then theatre. A little bookmark of theatre, back to it again, and just touching base with it for that level of discipline, for that level of the focus that you have to have just to even remember that many lines in a show every night is an exceptional muscle to keep flexing.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, kudos to them.

• 39:56Speaker 02

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• 40:11Speaker 06

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• 40:42Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 40:44Speaker 07

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 40:46Fearne Cotton?

  And this is Boots Off.

• 40:49Speaker 07

  We are friends who've spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 40:57Fearne Cotton?

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 41:04Speaker 07

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 41:07Fearne Cotton?

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 41:09Speaker 07

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 41:12Fearne Cotton?

  Listen every Thursday, just search for Boots Off.

• 41:19Fearne Cotton?

  So do you know what you're doing next, where you want to head next?

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know what I'm doing next. I know what I would like to do next.

• 41:30Fearne Cotton?

  Which is?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Which I'm not going to jinx.

• 41:34Fearne Cotton?

  It's a private manifestation.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's some conversations and things being had, but I, I'm right now excited for a summer of trips.

• 41:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Taking my mum on the Orient Express.

• 41:45Fearne Cotton?

  That's the dream.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  At the end of August, so that'll be nice.

• 41:48Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, I've never done that, but that's so good.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 41:49Fearne Cotton?

  She must be thrilled.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  She's going to listen to this, but I'm going to say it now. It's for her birthday present and I think she thinks I paid for it, but I haven't.

• 41:55Fearne Cotton?

  Blagged it.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  One of the benefits, we were saying before about this world is.

• 41:59Fearne Cotton?

  Hashtag spun.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Hashtag, no hashtag gifted.

• 42:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hashtag gifted.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Not even, they said I didn't even post on my story about it.

• 42:04Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, love.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  But I'm very excited for it. My mum's always wanted to go on the Orient Express, so.

• 42:09Fearne Cotton?

  It's going to be magical.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:10Fearne Cotton?

  And also just, you need to have downtime. Like you've just done this crazy ride of years, non-stop. Time for a break.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Time for a break.

• 42:20Fearne Cotton?

  Time for some, like, being young person stuff.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  That, that was my newest resolutions this year was to be more messy and be more young. And I think I've done them both alright so far this year.

• 42:30Fearne Cotton?

  Being, I think that's such a good goal of like being more messy because we're taught the opposite, like be as absolutely stringent with everything and make sure everything looks and is perfect. And it's so tense to, to live like that.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  And I think maybe my messy is less messy than other people's messy and that's, that's good. But the last few years, I think I've been very like, got to be on and proper and, and you know what, actually.

• 42:58Fearne Cotton?

  It's time to get fucked up on the Orient Express, people. That's all we're doing.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  I went to Ibiza for the first time a few weeks ago. Crazy.

• 43:05Fearne Cotton?

  So mad.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:06Fearne Cotton?

  My god, some stuff happens there.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:09Fearne Cotton?

  I've been quite a few times. It's nuts.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd definitely be going back.

• 43:12Fearne Cotton?

  How important does it feel with whatever you do next? Maybe not even the next, next thing, but in the future, to have a level of, maybe it is activism, but I guess it's kind of like care at the end of the day. That the shows that you work on, theatre or TV, have a cultural impact like Heartstopper have because, yes, we can all watch it and be entertained and watch like these tender, beautiful love stories, but also watch real life issues being explored, like in the movie.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:42Fearne Cotton?

  I loved the moment where Charlie, I don't want to give away too much, so spoiler if you haven't seen it and you're desperate to see it. But Charlie sets up this club for kids at the school.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:52Fearne Cotton?

  That are part of the LGBTQ plus community to ensure there is a safe space in school. And yes, again, you've got this lovely group of people and you can be entertained watching it. But of course it's going to impact kids out there who feel like they are other at school or feel like they are not taken care of or there isn't a safe space at school. And it could even impact the schooling system, we hope too, that, you know, teachers end up watching and going, god, we need to implement something like this. Does that feel very important to you?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, especially with Heartstopper, I think that element of it is a key part of it and, and is, is very special. And there's lots of points in the film that I hope people have conversations about and, and use. And I also think that. Going forward, I, it's definitely important to me to do projects that align with who I am and what I believe. But I think we also can't decide what becomes a cultural thing. And so I guess my aim will to be carry on. I've never been someone who will shy away from what I believe and say that loud and loudly. And I will always continue to be that. And so

• 45:01Speaker 01

  I would assume that if someone is putting me in their work, they know what I believe and what I stand for. And therefore the production would would do the same, would would be would value the same things I value. I've got, I've got no business in being something that doesn't align with my beliefs.

• 45:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, of course. But it must feel amazing, whether that this has been realised by yourself later down the line, that that the show and you being part of it has had such a big impact on young people.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It's very special to be a part of something that people don't just watch, but seem to have like genuine impacts from. And it seemed to, it's a very nice, it's a nice thing when people come up to you and tell you how much that your show means to them.

• 45:48Fearne Cotton?

  Do you think Little Joe could have done with Heartstopper when he was a young teen?

• 45:53Speaker 01

  I, I think Little Joe would have benefited from Heartstopper, but I think Little Joe was too, would have probably made fun of Heartstopper because he wanted to survive in a very certain system. But I think he would, he would have watched it in secret. He wouldn't have told anyone he watched it.

• 46:10Fearne Cotton?

  There'll be kids out there now that watch it in secret.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's great too.

• 46:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it is. And you just hope that that is the catalyst for them to not have to

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:18Fearne Cotton?

  Live secretly.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  I did one, Heartstopper came out, I remember going back to my school and a lot of the younger students, because I was still in school, were, I think there's a lot more acceptance for self-expression in younger people than even when I was at school, which was only five years ago. Then there was when I was 12, 13, which is good.

• 46:38Fearne Cotton?

  It's so good to see that progression, but equally heartbreaking for people like yourself that didn't initially have that thought that you could just be yourself.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, I say that and all at the same time, like I had a great experience growing up and I never felt like, like I did come out at 12 and then went back into the closet and then came back out and my, all my friends were like, yeah, you told us like three years ago. And I was like,

• 47:00Fearne Cotton?

  I'm out again, surprise.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I told everyone my Instagram had been hacked. Can I put it on my Instagram story? Why did I do that? Don't do that if you've just come out when you're 12. Just, that's my advice. Just take your time.

• 47:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, of course.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  You don't need to.

• 47:14Fearne Cotton?

  But you're 12.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 47:16Fearne Cotton?

  What do you know at 12?

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 47:17Fearne Cotton?

  You know, you're trying to figure out how to say something huge about yourself.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but put it on Instagram if you want, just, you don't need to. You can just figure it out.

• 47:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:27Fearne Cotton?

  And be around the right people that always have your back.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 47:31Fearne Cotton?

  It's so important. Oh, well, I love what the show is doing for, it's not just young people. I think there'd be old people out there watching it thinking,

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:37Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, I can just be myself. I can have the permission just to be myself without any worry. It's so important.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:44Fearne Cotton?

  Joe Locke, we are compiling a happy place playlist of like songs that make you feel bloody brilliant.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:51Fearne Cotton?

  What are you putting on it?

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Ooh, Joy by Ray.

• 47:55Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that whole album.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  That whole album, but specifically this morning I was getting ready and it's just that song, it just, I'm not a dancer, but it just makes me move.

• 48:04Fearne Cotton?

  It's so good.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:05Fearne Cotton?

  I also love Finn, the end song where she just speaks over it.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  She could, she could read me the phone book.

• 48:12Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  In that just gorgeous.

• 48:14Fearne Cotton?

  Gorgeous voice.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Voice.

• 48:15Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, she's heaven.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  And all her orchestrations are all beautiful and also I got to meet her once and she is so lovely.

• 48:22Fearne Cotton?

  So lovely.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:23Fearne Cotton?

  She's a genius.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  She's a genius.

• 48:24Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, that's going on the playlist. Zero arguments about that one.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Doom. Thank you.

• 48:28Fearne Cotton?

  And my final question is where is your happy place?

• 48:32Speaker 01

  My happy place is, oh, my happy place is probably in the Isle of Man. That's where I, if London's getting a bit much and I need to just go, I will go to my place, which is in the Isle of Man, probably one of my auntie's house, having a coffee in the garden with my family and our dogs or the beach. Or just somewhere like nice and calm and quiet. But at the same time, my happy place at the moment is also my flat with my best friend that I've just moved into. And I lived on my own for a lot of last year and it was great, but it's just, it's a little bit lonely when you just, you know, my life is very busy and I'm very lucky for that. So I'm always with people and, and which is great, but

• 49:18Speaker 01

  there was a time when I was like, oh, it's just, it would be nice to live with someone. So I persuaded my best friend from, since we were four years old. I was like, why don't you just move to London, move in with me? Like, that's just. And he did, and it's great. It's just great having like, being sat on the sofa. We've been watching The Crown recently.

• 49:35Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, love.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  And just like, eating a dishoom takeout.

• 49:39Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, sweet. You're talking about my dream night. This is heaven.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  It was, it's the best. That's my happy place at the moment, but also home. I love going home.

• 49:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Which I never thought I'd say when I left.

• 49:48Fearne Cotton?

  Do you know what? I feel embarrassed to admit this. I've never been to the Isle of Man.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  It's very pretty.

• 49:53Fearne Cotton?

  I really wanna go.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it now I've left.

• 49:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I bet. But I think it's also really important, not only to touch base with like, your roots, where you're from, and go back and, you know, see those familiar sights, but also to have a break from the craziness.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:09Fearne Cotton?

  It's so important, so important.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. It's, it's nice to, I just like going home and like, nothing has ever changed. There's always the same like, local drama on Facebook about, and it just, it makes me laugh and like, I really just, it's really happy that like.

• 50:25Fearne Cotton?

  Someone's stole someone's bin.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, like all, all the same things, or like, oh, the bin man haven't come in two weeks. It's just awful.

• 50:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  And that, that is, it's awful, but it's also, it's nice to have that in the news rather than coming back to London and.

• 50:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Hearing lots of different news.

• 50:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  But then at the same time, I love London so much, especially at the moment, as much as it has been too hot recently, for too long. Just going to a pub garden with some friends or like, line biking along the canal.

• 50:56Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I love it.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Just, yeah, great.

• 50:58Fearne Cotton?

  Walking around London in the sunshine is one of my all time joys.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  It's just the best.

• 51:02Fearne Cotton?

  It's have, everyone's in a better mood.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Everyone's great. Everyone's out on the street, having fun, laughing.

• 51:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I like it at like, nine thirty when it's kind of all balmy and dusky and, oh, I love that feeling. It's so great.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  It's the best.

• 51:16Fearne Cotton?

  Well, congratulations on the film.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:19Fearne Cotton?

  Congratulations on the end of this chapter. What a beautiful chapter to celebrate. Like this, this is the full stop of it.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  This is, this is the full stop.

• 51:28Fearne Cotton?

  And I, and I love that. I think it's so important to have new chapters in life and to look back and reflect and go, right, and what's the, what's the next bit? What an interesting and exciting part of your life we find you in.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:40Fearne Cotton?

  I'm excited for you.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  This is the end of a chapter. Gosh, I should start thinking about the next one.

• 51:45Fearne Cotton?

  Not just yet.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Not just yet.

• 51:46Fearne Cotton?

  Go on the Orient Express first.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Go on the Orient Express first.

• 51:48Fearne Cotton?

  And then worry about it later.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 51:49Fearne Cotton?

  It's an end of year problem.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  That's definitely an end of year problem.

• 51:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  I'll have a few months of summer.

• 51:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Oh, well, I love that for you. And thank you so much for being on Happy Place.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 51:58Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you, Jo.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 52:00Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Jo, do you know what? I felt sort of ecstatically excited talking to Jo at such an important part of his life. I remember being in my early twenties and the excitement about what is to come. In terms of everything, like who you're becoming as a person, trying to navigate a career, the fun of being young and free and having few responsibilities. I just felt so excited talking to Jo and seeing him at this amazing point of his career. You can see with Jo, he's just gonna ascend further and further and further. He's just such a star and just such a lovely person and he's doing a lot of good work. You can

• 52:40Fearne Cotton?

  watch Heartstopper forever on Netflix now. All right, back here very soon, but for now a massive thanks again to Jo and to you, brilliant lot. I love you.

• 53:12Fearne Cotton?

  Happy Place is researched by me, Fern Cotton. The producer is Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios with studio engineering by Basil Oxtaby.

• 53:23Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  And Maisie Adam.

• 53:25Fearne Cotton?

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 53:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 53:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 53:44Fearne Cotton?

  Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.