We All Get Cancelled One Day with Somebody Feed Phil’s Phil Rosenthal

🚨 Chomp Alert! 🚨 We saw your comments — loud and crunchy. Turns out not everyone wants front-row seats to mouth sounds. Who knew? Skip to 29:29 to dodge most of the chewing. We promise, after that it’s just a few graceful nibbles of Basque cheesecake. 🧀🍰😅 _____________________________________ We turned the studio into a restaurant for the day—because when Phil Rosenthal’s in the house, you don’t just talk about food, you eat it! Phil—the genius behind Everybody Loves Raymond and Somebody Feed Phil—joins us for a heartfelt, hilarious meal where we dive into everything from sitcoms and food shows to gratitude, creativity, and finding joy in the everyday. Sure, we talk about the evolving world of television and the secrets to mastering great storytelling—but this episode isn’t just about food and show business. Phil reveals the best life advice he’s ever received—and it might just change the way you live. As lovers of the LA food scene, we also used this episode as a chance to highlight and support some of our favorite local restaurants. Because nothing pairs better with great conversation than a table full of incredible local bites. Breakfast Burritos: Civil Coffee Fried Chicken: Anajak Thai (surprise guest experience from owner and chef Justin Pichetrungsi) Hand Rolls: The Joint Liver Pâté: Petit Trois Basque Cheesecake: Pasjoli Watch the new season of Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix Check out more of Phil’s work: philrosenthalworld.com --------------------------- This episode is brought to you by True Classic! I really love their T-shirts, so we called them up and asked if they wanted to work together. And they said yes! Check out their clothes at: trueclassictees.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Simon Sinek?

  This episode is brought to you by True Classic. The way they became our sponsor is because I loved their T-shirts. And so we just called them up and asked them if they wanted to work together. And they said yes. So check out their clothes at trueclassic.com. You created Everybody Loves Raymond and Somebody Feed Phil. It's always got some name in it.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:22Simon Sinek?

  So what would you name my show?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Somebody Talk to Simon.

• 0:27Simon Sinek?

  So lonely.

• 0:32Simon Sinek?

  Before we turn on the cameras and the mics, I tell every guest who comes on the show that this is not like an interview show that they're used to. It's more like a conversation. I tell them to imagine that we're out for a meal and the people sitting next to us are eavesdropping on us because our conversation is better than theirs. Well, for this episode, we decided to do just that. Literally. As soon as I heard that Phil Rosenthal, the brilliant creator and executive producer behind Everybody Loves Raymond and the joyful, heartened face of Somebody Feed Phil was coming on the show, I wanted to give him food. So we turned our little podcast into an even littler restaurant.

• 1:13Simon Sinek?

  Please pull up a chair at our table for the latest episode of Somebody Talk to Simon. I mean, a bit of optimism.

• 1:24Simon Sinek?

  I warned you before we turned the cameras on, which is we have so much damn food that we brought.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29Simon Sinek?

  Don't finish anything because we have to get through it all. And I haven't had breakfast, so I'm spacey.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Great. I had a little protein drink, so that's...

• 1:37Simon Sinek?

  You're hungry too.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  But...

• 1:39Simon Sinek?

  Good.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. But that's my secret, by the way. The number one question I get is how come I'm not fat? And it is one reason is I don't finish anything. If you see me eating like crazy on the show.

• 1:50Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  I am, but I'm not really, unless it's the like most delicious thing I've ever had and I'm no, I'll never get to this part of Chang Mai again to have this bowl of cow soy, I'm finishing it. And I'm maybe ordering another one. If you're in a town that's famous for certain dishes.

• 2:08Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  You want those dishes.

• 2:10Simon Sinek?

  There's dishes.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  You have to.

• 2:11Simon Sinek?

  Let's get our first dish out here. Let's get, let's get our breakfast dish out because we got, we got, we've got not just courses. We have breakfast, lunch and dinner.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  You really thought this out.

• 2:22Simon Sinek?

  We have a lot of food. So what we decided to do is there's a bunch of great restaurants in Los Angeles, which is where you and I live.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Listen, if you can't travel, live in L.A.

• 2:29Simon Sinek?

  They live in L.A.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  The world is here.

• 2:31Simon Sinek?

  And we have a bunch of great restaurants. And so we ordered like some of the dishes from some great places. Look at that. Bring it on in. Thank you, David. So I haven't, I love a breakfast burrito.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Hi. I love a breakfast burrito too. It's one of my favorite things.

• 2:47Simon Sinek?

  So I, I love a breakfast burrito. My favorite breakfast burrito in Los Angeles is from a place called Oaks Gourmet.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Don't know it.

• 2:54Simon Sinek?

  In Los Feliz. We'll go. It's, it's my favorite. But somebody recently recommended.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00Simon Sinek?

  These, which is from a coffee joint called, I think it's called Civil Coffee or Civic Coffee, Civil Coffee. Civil Coffee.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Civil Coffee.

• 3:06Simon Sinek?

  I've never tried this burrito, so I have no idea. Highly recommended.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Is that here in Sherman Oaks?

• 3:10Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, it's not far. It's in Studio City. Anyway, there's cheese and egg.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15Simon Sinek?

  And then bacon and cheese or bacon and egg.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Wow, I'm trying cheese and egg first.

• 3:19Simon Sinek?

  I'm going for bacon.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Okay. Cheers, my friend. It's very good to see you.

• 3:23Simon Sinek?

  This is good.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:26Simon Sinek?

  This is good. I will say this ranks up there is extremely good. It was like Oaks Gourmet. It's still my favorite breakfast burrito.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  All right. I'm happy to, happy to try that. Yeah. So no offense. I'm not finishing anything.

• 3:39Simon Sinek?

  No, no, no. Taking bites.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  What made you want to start an eating show in the first place?

• 3:45Simon Sinek?

  Other than the obvious, which is to get paid to travel around the world to eat. It sounds like a good gig.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  It's a scam.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  You talk to people who, leaders in business, they're not as honest as I am.

• 3:58Simon Sinek?

  It's a scam. Right.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  It's a scam.

• 4:01Simon Sinek?

  And what are you, seven season in?

• 4:03Speaker 01

  This coming up now is season eight.

• 4:05Simon Sinek?

  Season eight. Did you imagine when you came up with the idea that it would get picked up for eight seasons?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  No, your help opened to fool one guy at a network.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  And maybe they'll let you film one. By the way, the first time we filmed one.

• 4:19Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  I think it was Barcelona. We started on PBS. The first one we filmed was Barcelona. And I have my first scene, which is a meal.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  And the meal was so fantastic, I said, if we're canceled right now, die in you.

• 4:38Simon Sinek?

  It's worth it.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  It was worth it. Everything I went through and it took 10 years to get the show.

• 4:43Simon Sinek?

  How, what?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:45Simon Sinek?

  But hold on.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  This is today's, today's lesson.

• 4:48Simon Sinek?

  There was precedent, there was precedent, like you had Bourdain, who did his cooking show and traveled around the world, he's like.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  But he was Anthony Bourdain, I mean, that, that was a sexy superstar, look at me. It wasn't an easy sell.

• 5:03Simon Sinek?

  So I want to know, so, okay, so you, you, you had phone numbers because of Everyone Loves Raymond. So you know who to call and they'll take your call.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  They don't want that call. Hey, you know what I've got for you now? After having a somewhat successful sitcom, me as the host of a travel show. My own agents looked at me as if I pooped on the carpet. They didn't want to hear it.

• 5:27Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  The reason I shifted gears that way is because after Everybody Loves Raymond was over, I had been there for nine years. The business changed greatly in those nine years. They, they didn't want that kind of show anymore. They wanted hip and edgy shows.

• 5:44Simon Sinek?

  They were moving from Everyone Loves Raymond to something like Friends.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Okay. They just wanted Friends.

• 5:49Simon Sinek?

  Got it. They wanted that formula.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  They wanted young, hip.

• 5:53Simon Sinek?

  Family sitcoms.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Good looking, yes. And it's, you know, we had a hard time selling Raymond when we sold Raymond because it was already de classe. It wasn't, it's not sexy to people, the family sitcom. Although, if you look back at television comedy history, it's the building block of networks.

• 6:14Simon Sinek?

  All in the family?

• 6:15Speaker 01

  All in the family, go back to I Love Lucy, a domestic. A Father Knows Best, Happy Days, The Honeymooners, domestic, not workplace, domestic, family sitcoms with kids or without kids.

• 6:28Simon Sinek?

  Yep.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Well, that's not what a young executive or even an old executive wants on their resume. Because that's not cool. And when they get fired from this job, they want a resume that says, I'm still relevant.

• 6:43Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I'm not doing old fashioned. Raymond was-

• 6:46Simon Sinek?

  Even though the data shows- That's really funny.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  That it's always- It's so funny. A number one show.

• 6:53Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  If it's done right.

• 6:54Simon Sinek?

  If it's done right, of course.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  I distinctly remember wanting, in the age of Seinfeld and Friends, to do the opposite. Not even because that's all I could do, is that, because that's my wheelhouse. I wouldn't know how to do the hip and edgy-

• 7:12Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  -young hip sitcom. But business-wise, why would you do something that's already exist- It's already there.

• 7:18Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Maybe you'll last a season or two and maybe you get a little luckier, but you're copying what's out there now.

• 7:24Simon Sinek?

  Is that your personality? Are you a contrarian?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:28Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so it's, it's, that's funny.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  No, and I disagree with you completely.

• 7:38Simon Sinek?

  So, you're not a contrarian, but you, it's for your own creative- Because doing nine years of a thing-

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:46Simon Sinek?

  How do you keep? I mean, you're in the writer's room. How do you, how does it, how's that fresh after nine years?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  I mean, we could do a whole show about this, but I'll give you the short answer. If you sell something that's high concept, do you know what high concept-

• 8:02Simon Sinek?

  Say, say more.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Okay, high concept would be a show where we're from Mars, our family's from Mars, and we're gonna live on a street and pretend to be normal Americans.

• 8:14Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  That's a high-concept show. Now, with a high-concept show, they have to serve that premise every week.

• 8:20Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  That would get boring and repetitive and can't last very long.

• 8:24Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Can last maybe a few seasons, tops.

• 8:27Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Because every week, oh no, they're gonna find out we're from Mars.

• 8:31Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  So it's the same story practically.

• 8:33Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yes, you can have little stories that weave in and out, but that main premise is gonna have to be served.

• 8:41Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Okay. You know what low concept is? Low concept is a guy who lives across the street from his parents with his family.

• 8:49Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  That's very low concept.

• 8:51Simon Sinek?

  It can go forever.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  And it's not hip and edgy, and it doesn't sell, because it doesn't sound like something novel.

• 8:57Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  But in television, like in movies, like in books, like in anything we do in life, it's all about the execution.

• 9:04Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  So if you execute that premise, the guy with his family who lives across the street from his parents- The possibilities of episodes are almost as endless as real life.

• 9:17Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  And so if you worked for me, your job on Everybody Loves Raymond was to go home, get in a fight with your wife and come back in and tell me about it.

• 9:25Simon Sinek?

  And that's. It's everyday life.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Everyday life is infinite. The possibilities are infinite.

• 9:31Simon Sinek?

  Do you know what I find?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Or at least nine years.

• 9:33Simon Sinek?

  Do you know what, at least nine years.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:34Simon Sinek?

  Do you know what I find so funny about this, which is, and it goes to the, what you said about the executive, who's making decisions whether they know it or not, or admit it or not.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:42Simon Sinek?

  They're making the decisions for their career, their reputation, their resume, not necessarily for the, for what people want.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Took me a long time to learn that.

• 9:49Simon Sinek?

  And if you think about it, like even the pitches you're talking about, which is, we, we have a show about people living normal lives, where they have fights with their spouses, and they have kids, and their kids are annoying.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:59Simon Sinek?

  We're selling shows for the pitch, the day of the meeting.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 10:02Simon Sinek?

  Not for actual, the longevity or the ability to, to create great entertainment. And then you say, we have the, a great writers' room.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:10Simon Sinek?

  We've got some great, and that's where the magic happens, I'm assuming.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  I hear ideas all the time.

• 10:14Simon Sinek?

  It's just a package, right?

• 10:15Speaker 01

  The concept, any idea is valid.

• 10:17Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  It's the execution.

• 10:18Simon Sinek?

  Look, we just ate two breakfast burritos.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. We love a breakfast burrito. You and I both admit, it's a great thing. It's breakfast that you're holding in your hand. It, we love the tortilla. We love everything about it, but what's in it?

• 10:31Simon Sinek?

  That makes the difference.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Right. Why do you love the one from Oaks more than the one we just ate?

• 10:35Simon Sinek?

  It has, because it has a fried egg in it where it actually has gooey yolk, which is unheard of in a breakfast burrito. There you go. That's one of the reasons.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  I've had it that way, and it, I don't know why more people don't do it.

• 10:47Simon Sinek?

  It's actually tastes better.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Because there's extra sauce.

• 10:51Simon Sinek?

  It's actually, it comes with free sauce.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  It comes with, yes.

• 10:53Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  So that's, we're the same, but that's everything.

• 10:59Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  What's in the burrito is everything.

• 11:02Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, right.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Not that it's a burrito, but tell me what's in it. Tell me how you make it.

• 11:07Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so as you and I are talking, we have more food coming in.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Here comes, oh.

• 11:12Simon Sinek?

  Now, you may know.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  This is dangerous.

• 11:14Simon Sinek?

  This is, don't tell me this is, this is from Anajak Thai.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  This is one of the best. Oh, my buddy, Justin.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Everybody, this is Justin. He's a genius.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  You've never met Simon?

• 11:27Simon Sinek?

  No, we've never met.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Well, this is nice.

• 11:30Simon Sinek?

  Justin's... Well, as we should tell everybody, this is from Anajak Thai. This is some of the best fried chicken in the world. Anajak Thai is a very hard to get into restaurant in Los Angeles. That's closed on the day we're shooting, but you brought us food anyway. Thank you very, very much. Thanks for bringing it by. I didn't even know you were gonna be here. So nice to meet you.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Just wanted to say hello.

• 11:47Simon Sinek?

  So kind.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Friend here.

• 11:48Simon Sinek?

  Listen.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Enjoy.

• 11:49Simon Sinek?

  Not only is this some of the best fried chicken in the world, it will be featured at my daughter's wedding. You're having Anajak Thai at a wedding? Yes. God bless you.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Love you.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Well, you.

• 12:01Simon Sinek?

  Alright, I'm coming in. It's perfect. It's perfect.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 12:06Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. This is really good fried chicken. I only got... I've only been to Anajak Thai once. Mainly because I couldn't get in.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Well, this is your... Not only did it come to you, the guy came to you.

• 12:18Simon Sinek?

  The guy, the guy who is Anajak Thai.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Why did Justin come?

• 12:21Simon Sinek?

  I don't know. That was a surprise.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Now he's gone.

• 12:24Simon Sinek?

  I never met him. I didn't know he was coming. So that was a real treat. We were talking about what I think's so interesting about this. This idea of the execution. You're 100% right, but nobody sells the execution. They always sell...

• 12:37Speaker 01

  You can't.

• 12:38Simon Sinek?

  They always sell... How... But it's everything. It's our resumes. It's just, it's not just creative products and making TV shows.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  But that doesn't guarantee execution either.

• 12:47Simon Sinek?

  But how do we know? How do we know? I mean, you want to take, you want to take, take a...

• 12:53Speaker 01

  That's the bet people make, right?

• 12:54Simon Sinek?

  Exactly.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Which is, I show you my resume and you're gonna take an educated guess.

• 12:57Simon Sinek?

  I went on a tour of Apple.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:00Simon Sinek?

  The Apple historian is the guy who took me around.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:04Simon Sinek?

  And he was saying, one of the cultural things that Steve Jobs built into this place

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:10Simon Sinek?

  was, nobody cares what you've done. They care what you're gonna do.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:14Simon Sinek?

  It's all about future.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:16Simon Sinek?

  And he said that they'd hire these fancy people from Facebook or Google, these fancy engineers who may have worked on some famous fancy product. And they'd walk around, like they walk on water and like, "Do you know who I am? Do you know what I've done in my career?"

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:28Simon Sinek?

  And invariably, somebody will say to them in a meeting, "We don't care what you've done. We care what you're gonna do." And I think the idea of people living on their past accomplishments.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:38Simon Sinek?

  And this is sort of, because, let's be honest.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:40Simon Sinek?

  You could have, given what you did with Raymond... You could have absolutely showed up and said, "We're gonna do another Raymond-type show of a family." And you would have been, you could have sold that the next day, because you've got a quote-unquote, "got the proven track record."

• 13:53Speaker 01

  You wanna know the truth?

• 13:54Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Had a spin-off of Raymond ready, ready to go, because my, I love the writers so much in that writers' room, and I know, knew that this was an exceptional team.

• 14:04Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  These are some of the best comedy writers in the world.

• 14:08Simon Sinek?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  How do we stay together? We loved each other. We know the show has run its course.

• 14:14Simon Sinek?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  But now, how do we drive the car over here?

• 14:19Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  We had a spin-off already, featuring the brother, the brother's wife, and the brother's wife's family. Now, we're gonna shift gears and do another family in a different situation.

• 14:32Simon Sinek?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  The brother's wife's family, by the way, was Chris Elliott, Georgia Engel, and Fred Willard. Couldn't be better.

• 14:41Simon Sinek?

  Great cast.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  They were on the show 30 times, so proven.

• 14:45Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  They said no, because...

• 14:48Simon Sinek?

  The studio said no.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  The network?

• 14:50Simon Sinek?

  The network said no.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Because now, these people, this is not the kind of show we wanna do anymore. Everyone in your cast is 40 or older. We're looking for young.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  They said no.

• 15:05Simon Sinek?

  So it didn't matter?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Didn't matter. So, I tried to write another pilot. No! My sensibility was not...

• 15:14Simon Sinek?

  There wasn't even the proven track record?

• 15:15Speaker 01

  The thing they wanted, right. Didn't matter.

• 15:16Simon Sinek?

  Didn't matter.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  And my agent said, "They like you, just be more hip and edgy, that's all." I said, "Well, you got the right guy, I'm Mr. Hip and Edgy."

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Right? And it is funny.

• 15:30Simon Sinek?

  Is it rude to laugh when somebody says, "I'm hip and edgy"?

• 15:33Speaker 01

  It's, uh, I do these live shows, and I tell the story, and I get laughs. I say, "You know, I think they said sexy, and my wife fell off the couch."

• 15:45Speaker 01

  So after years of struggling

• 15:49Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  against this tidal wave of hip and edgy.

• 15:52Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  I said, wait a minute. What about this dream that I have to do this? I'm gonna beat your head against the wall anyway of show business. Pick a spot in the wall. That you might love.

• 16:03Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  And so I did. And then convincing people was another story.

• 16:09Simon Sinek?

  How many years after Raymond did you start pitching the?

• 16:13Speaker 01

  I would say about four.

• 16:14Simon Sinek?

  So you?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  So I'd say about three or four years of struggle. And then a whole new struggle. Now, I did other things in between, but always I was driving towards this. And then I sold it finally to PBS. My agents didn't even want me to go to.

• 16:32Simon Sinek?

  So what was the reason they said yes?

• 16:34Speaker 01

  I sold it with one lung. I said, I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.

• 16:42Simon Sinek?

  Got it.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  And they said, we've been looking for a food and travel show with humor for years.

• 16:46Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  But I wasn't allowed to go to PBS by my agents because they said, there's no money at PBS. That turns out to be true, but they had money for six episodes. And we did them. And then here came Netflix.

• 16:59Simon Sinek?

  Oh, so Netflix saw it.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:00Simon Sinek?

  And came after you.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. They were just kind of starting.

• 17:04Simon Sinek?

  What I'm trying to get out of your story is where the lessons are for how people live regular lives. Not everybody's gonna be selling TV shows or is necessarily in show business. But the idea, I mean, you've said it. If you're gonna have to beat your head against a wall.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 17:16Simon Sinek?

  Pick something you like doing and beat your head against that wall.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  The best advice I ever got from anybody was from Ed Weinberger, a great show creator and showrunner. Mary Tyler Moore Show and Taxi and great classic sitcoms that I idolized. As I'm writing the pilot for Everybody Loves Raymond, I ask him for advice. He says this. Do the show you want to do because in the end they're gonna cancel you anyway. That's a life lesson. Ah, we all get canceled one day.

• 17:46Simon Sinek?

  We all get canceled.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  So live the life you want to live.

• 17:48Simon Sinek?

  It's the, um, thank you, thank you. Okay, so this one-

• 17:51Speaker 01

  More food!

• 17:52Simon Sinek?

  More food. We got lots of food. So this one's great. So there is a place, thank you, David.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:57Simon Sinek?

  There is a place on Ventura called The Joint. Do you know The Joint?

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 18:02Simon Sinek?

  Okay, The Joint is, ah, there's our nori, our seaweed. So The Joint is the best fishmonger in Los Angeles. Like, if you're ever cooking at home and you want to make fish, go get their dry-aged aura salmon. Here's how good it is. As I'm preparing to cook it, I'm eating it off the fish raw, because it's that good, right?

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Sushi-grade.

• 18:23Simon Sinek?

  And they just recently started offering hand rolls at The Joint. It's a fishmonger and coffee shop. I know, what a combination.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:30Simon Sinek?

  Anyway, so you can now get hand rolls there. So they put together a bento box. You can get it to go. This is how it comes. We're supposed to make our own hand rolls.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Great.

• 18:37Simon Sinek?

  I'm keeping on brand. I have Star Wars chopsticks for us.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Oh my god. Oh my god, they light up. Yeah, are we gonna duel?

• 18:45Simon Sinek?

  I mean-

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 18:46Simon Sinek?

  You know-

• 18:47Speaker 01

  This is fantastic.

• 18:48Simon Sinek?

  So you can be a good guy or a bad guy.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  I'd be a little of both.

• 18:51Simon Sinek?

  A little of both, there you go. Good and bad.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Vroom.

• 18:54Simon Sinek?

  And I think this is, this was Samuel L. Jackson was the only one with a purple one. And I think the reason he asked for a purple one is so he would stand out in the scene.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Also, purple's cool, and he's cool.

• 19:04Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, so these chopsticks are incredibly hard to use. They're pretty but impractical.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Well, you're, you're free to use fingers, too.

• 19:10Simon Sinek?

  Free to use fingers. I'm gonna just use my fingers, because I'm the one eating it.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  But I have to try the-

• 19:15Simon Sinek?

  I've never made a hand roll, for the record, but we're making them now. Well done. Food going everywhere. What I might do-

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:25Simon Sinek?

  Is just eat some of this.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Yes, good idea.

• 19:27Simon Sinek?

  Instead of giving it a hand roll, because it looks so good. I love sushi.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 19:30Simon Sinek?

  Mmm, that is gorgeous.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Have you been to Japan?

• 19:33Simon Sinek?

  I, four times. I, I love it. It's my favorite place in the world. Did you have, did you have the egg salad sandwich at 7-Eleven?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:39Simon Sinek?

  Best egg salad sandwich of my life.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  So last season, we did Kyoto, and it blew me-

• 19:44Simon Sinek?

  Did you go, okay Kyoto.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:48Simon Sinek?

  Did you go to, there's a restaurant in the woods?

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 19:52Simon Sinek?

  Oh, I wish I talked to you before you went to Kyoto.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  I wish you did, but I'll be back because it got in deep with me. It really had a profound impact on me Kyoto. I thought it was spectacular.

• 20:03Simon Sinek?

  And there's a great pizza place, some of the best pizza I've had in my life was in Kyoto. Yes, I went there, it was incredible.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Great.

• 20:10Simon Sinek?

  There's a restaurant, it's in the middle of the woods, it's a tofu restaurant, but you sit on the floor, very Japanese.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:15Simon Sinek?

  And literally you tell the taxi, take me here, they drop you off in a parking lot and you're like, well, where the hell is the restaurant?

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:21Simon Sinek?

  And you put it in your phone and your GPS and you realize you're nowhere near it. And you start walking through the woods. How is that?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Amazing. So fresh and clean.

• 20:31Simon Sinek?

  And they make them for you when you go.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 20:33Simon Sinek?

  But my god, I love this place.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Oh, just need a minute. Crispy.

• 20:43Simon Sinek?

  Everything's, everything's nice. So you walk through the woods, you're literally walk, you're like, where the hell is this, you're in the middle of trees everywhere. And then in the distance, you see a little house. And you're like, I think that's it. And you go to the house, the door opens, you take your shoes off. It's the restaurant, you sit in the woods. It's the most magical meal.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Japan is magical.

• 21:05Simon Sinek?

  Japan is magical.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  They know how to live.

• 21:07Simon Sinek?

  And they don't invent everything, they perfect everything.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 21:10Simon Sinek?

  They didn't invent pizza, but my god, it was the best pizza I've ever had in my life.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Whatever they focus on, they make perfect and beautiful. When I first got to Tokyo, I thought, I'm in a pinball machine, I don't get it. I'm walking outside, I'm in like some kind of Times Square. And then I get on the subway and go forty minutes, I'm in another Times Square. I don't understand, it's like New York Times, Los Angeles.

• 21:30Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  You can't believe the density and the scope and the, it was overwhelming and I understood lost in translation where you want to hide in your hotel room.

• 21:39Simon Sinek?

  That movie is so good.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  At that feeling.

• 21:42Simon Sinek?

  Capturing that feeling.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  However, first restaurant I went into.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Calm, serene, beautiful, magical stuff starts coming to the table. And you're, you're transported and you start to get it really quick. That they can't control the outside, but what they can control, they make perfect and beautiful.

• 22:01Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  My joke is if you go to the pharmacy and buy a pack of gum, they wrap it for you as if it's for your hundredth birthday. And it's just a great way to be. The other like mind blowing lesson I got was there's little kids on the street. You've even seen videos of this, three year olds going to the store for their parents. Going out into the street, like imagine Ventura Boulevard, the three year olds walking alone, going into the store, buying something, coming back on the street alone. How is this possible? Oh, somebody said, uh, the community cares for the children.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  I'm like, what? What?

• 22:39Simon Sinek?

  But we've forgotten that as a society. We've forgotten that as a society, which is, you know, if you go to like lower income neighborhoods. Everybody sits on the front porch and they raise each other's kids. And then as soon as you start accumulating any kind of wealth, you move to the in middle class and the suburbs and above. Everybody moves to the back of the house and you keep your own kids separated from everybody. And there's something to be said for like, and I've been to like slums like Daravi in the middle of Mumbai. Yes. This har- this large slum with a million people.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:09Simon Sinek?

  In one square mile, whatever it is.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:12Simon Sinek?

  And kids are running around and they're safe because everybody's looking out for everybody's kids and that's why it works. But what like, like it's.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  We forgot how to care for each other.

• 23:22Simon Sinek?

  Care for each other and we put walls up in front of you, you know, walls up and in, I mean, but this is city living, right? I mean, that's what, that's what urban living is, which is you live in your apartment in New York City or any city.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  And you have five deadbolts on the door.

• 23:36Simon Sinek?

  And you have five deadbolts and you don't know your neighbors, even though literally you share a hallway with them, forget about a street.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  I live in a very nice neighborhood and people don't come out of their house there.

• 23:48Simon Sinek?

  I, I make a point when somebody moves into our neighborhood to go knock on my door and say hello. And it's a very simple reason. It's like all of us around our, my, where I live.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:57Simon Sinek?

  Like somebody will call me.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:59Simon Sinek?

  And be like, hey, there's a package that's been outside your front door for two days. Do you want me to go get it? I, I, I'm guessing you're not home, you know? That idea as opposed to having it just sit there and like somebody who's scoping the house, you know, like the, the, just people looking out for each other. It's just a nice thing. It's what it should be.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  I want to live it and we create the world we want to live in because the world exists. But the way you want to use it, the way you want to execute it, it's up to you.

• 24:26Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so Netflix picks up your show from PBS, which is a dream.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Dream.

• 24:31Simon Sinek?

  They say, you're in the big leagues now.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  They actually asked me, had the nicest meeting I've ever had. I've been doing show business for thirty, thirty-five years. Nicest meeting ever. Imagine this, you go to a meeting and they say, is there anything you didn't have over there at the last place that you'd like to have? Who says that to you?

• 24:52Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  I said, I'd like a theme song.

• 24:55Simon Sinek?

  Is that what you asked for?

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, they said, you can have a theme song. So I called this band, Lake Street Dive, who I'd met years before. God, I like them. I said, would you want to do a theme song for a TV show? They said, your TV show? I said, yeah. They said, sure. So I wrote some lyrics and sent to them and they wrote some additional, better lyrics. And this catchy tune that nobody skips on the, uh, on the show. And it's become my favorite song.

• 25:20Simon Sinek?

  And what you said before, which is this idea that, that is advice you got, make the show you want because it's going to get canceled anyway.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 25:26Simon Sinek?

  So whether you get one years or nine years, you're going to have a fun time doing it because it's the show you want to do, which really is just a microcosm of what life is, which is we're all going to die. There's one thing that we can, I can guarantee is we're all going to die. But the problem is, is life, we hope, is long. And so we don't live our life with that sense of make the thing you want because we think, oh, I'll, I'll get to it or I need to do this responsible thing first.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Why else are we here?

• 25:48Simon Sinek?

  Why else are we here?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  If we don't, if we, we can't know the meaning of life, I mean, we could spend our lives studying that.

• 25:55Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  But I think without any studying, I think we're supposed to enjoy ourselves.

• 26:02Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. Was Raymond your big break?

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:05Simon Sinek?

  So what were you doing before?

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Well, I would say big break would be your first job in television writing at all.

• 26:09Simon Sinek?

  Which was?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Uh, the Robert Mitchum sitcom in nineteen eighty-nine.

• 26:13Simon Sinek?

  Oh, my God.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Yes, that's the right response. Yeah.

• 26:16Simon Sinek?

  I didn't.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 26:17Simon Sinek?

  Know Robert Mitchum had a sitcom.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  He shouldn't have. That lasted seven episodes.

• 26:22Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  But what you can learn from your first job in the field, you can learn from any job in the field. Right? So I learned what not to do. I learned how bad it can be.

• 26:32Simon Sinek?

  What, what didn't work there? What was the big lesson?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  The premise, number one, you don't put Robert Mitchum in a sitcom. It doesn't belong, but the, the story behind that was he had been in, in a TV movie. When they, remember TV movies?

• 26:43Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  And this genre of TV movie is called a wormadie. A war- warmedy.

• 26:49Simon Sinek?

  Warmedy.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Warm feeling. Not a comedy, not a drama, a warmedy.

• 26:55Simon Sinek?

  That's terrible.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  So a lukewarm bath of shit.

• 26:57Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Just nothing.

• 27:00Simon Sinek?

  This, I don't know what this is. This is a surprise.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 27:04Simon Sinek?

  Oh, my God. Okay, this is totally, I don't know what this is. This is my surprise. This is chicken liver mousse. Wink, wink. I don't know where this is from. I don't know anything about this.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  This looks familiar. I know this.

• 27:16Simon Sinek?

  Why do I know this? You gotta tell us where it's from.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Petit Toit.

• 27:20Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Little Lafeb is the great French chef who opened Petit Toit. You've been to Petit Toit, no?

• 27:24Simon Sinek?

  No.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  So he's, he's a brilliant French chef.

• 27:27Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  He's a friend of mine. We filmed with him when we did an LA episode. We didn't have this.

• 27:37Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 27:40Simon Sinek?

  I mean, so, wow.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  You and I grew up with chicken liver. Red wine mixed in with this.

• 27:46Simon Sinek?

  It's very different than my mother's.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Beautiful sauteed onions underneath.

• 27:49Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Fresh as bread.

• 27:51Simon Sinek?

  And when you get to about here, about three quarters in, that's where you have the heart attack.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  But if you're gonna go, it's a good way to go.

• 28:00Simon Sinek?

  So you have your big break with your seven-episode dramedy, warmedy?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yes, right. And, and I, I start to, first of all, I'm thrilled because I'm splitting a salary. I, I had a partner at the time, and that's a very good way to break in, is you, you have a partner. And what, the reason you're attractive to them is because you're two for one. They pay one salary that you guys split. So I'm splitting a thousand dollars a week. I'm getting five hundred dollars a week. And within a few weeks, I'm a thousandaire.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  And I think this is the greatest thing because I went from eating tuna fish for dinner to eating whatever I wanted. And I can afford the rent and I can, now, you know, I get, that gets me another job. Jobs get jobs.

• 28:48Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Now I've had the experience. Now, you know, if they like you at all, you're, you're welcome. And after a few years, now my partner and I don't need to be partners anymore. Nothing, nothing personal.

• 28:57Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  It's just.

• 28:58Simon Sinek?

  It's like your careers are now solid enough that you can go do your own thing.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Let's make one salary for one person. That'd be good. And I get a tape of a comedian named Ray Romano.

• 29:07Simon Sinek?

  Uh, where was Ray in his, in his career?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  He had been a stand-up comedian. He'd been working 12 years to try to get on David Letterman's show. And he finally gets on. And from that one six-minute appearance, Letterman says, there should be a show for this Ray Romano. There should be a sitcom. And Letterman had a producing deal with CBS. Now, the way it works in Hollywood is comedians and their people start looking for writers to create shows for their clients, for the comedian. And writers are just looking for comedic talent to write for. So you take a meeting over lunch. Usually, we met at Arts Deli on Ventura Boulevard, where every sandwich is a work of art.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  And, uh, he had, you know, a lot of stories about his family because I just asked him, "Tell me about yourself, where you come from?" And he just said, "I got twin boys and an older daughter. My family lives close by and they're always bothering me. My brother is older and he's a police sergeant and he lives with them. He's divorced. He's jealous of me. He saw an award that I won for stand-up and he said, 'Never ends for Raymond. Everybody loves Raymond.'" And I said, "Well, it doesn't seem like there's anything there we can use." No, but I thought, "That's a good place to start." I didn't know if he could act even.

• 30:24Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Right? He wasn't an actor.

• 30:26Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  So make him close to himself. And I saw this as a vehicle for all the stuff I wanted to do.

• 30:33Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Family. What I didn't know about those characters, I'm putting in my characters. There's a lot of my parents in those parents.

• 30:39Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  There's a lot of my wife in that wife. There's a lot of me in Raymond.

• 30:43Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  And the situations. And I write this pilot and I use a real thing in my life that I gave my parents Fruit of the Month Club. And they acted as if I sent them a box of heads from a murderer. "Why did you do this to us? There's so much fruit. I can't talk anymore. There's too much fruit in the house." So I put that in the show. That's the scene they tell me that got us on the air. Why? Because it was very specific and I learned a great lesson. I thought you would laugh at that because you'd go, oh, look how crazy Ray's parents are in that scene.

• 31:15Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  No, your parents are crazy too. You're related to it. And the lesson is, the more specific you get.

• 31:22Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Not just in writing, but in everything in life. The more specific you get, and you're cooking.

• 31:27Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  The more universal it becomes. The more people you hit, because we all deal in specificities. So even if there's a crazy thing about you, that is not something I do. I'm gonna relate to it because I do a crazy thing too.

• 31:43Simon Sinek?

  Oh, this is so good, because we try and make things general to have mass appeal.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Always fails.

• 31:48Simon Sinek?

  Always fails because it ends up appealing, or people can find no relevance of themselves.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  It's weak.

• 31:53Simon Sinek?

  It's weak. But if you, and you know what it is? There's an irony in this, which is the specific, the more specific you are.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:00Simon Sinek?

  The more specific you are, it's kinda like people who are bad listeners.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:05Simon Sinek?

  Right? Or, or fortune tellers, if you're into that. Right?

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:09Simon Sinek?

  People who are bad listeners, which is, you're on a date.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:12Simon Sinek?

  And somebody says, oh, my parents sent me this Fruit of the Month Club and it's driving me crazy.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:19Simon Sinek?

  And you're like, oh, your parents, my parents sent me that. And it's, you're talking, you're competing in specific stories.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Exactly. But you're relating.

• 32:26Simon Sinek?

  But you're relating because the feeling that comes from the story is the same.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Is the same.

• 32:29Simon Sinek?

  And so the specificity is, is a Trojan horse that allows somebody to find their specificity. But the, what is general and relatable are the feelings that go along with the stories.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 32:40Simon Sinek?

  But this, but you're, to your point, the more specific the story, the specific is the story.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  So that fried, that fried chicken is.

• 32:46Simon Sinek?

  That is genius.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  That is delicious in a specific way. Not in a general bland way, in a very specific way.

• 32:52Simon Sinek?

  And one of the things we haven't done is talked about the specificity of why we like the chicken liver. Which is there's nostalgia.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Number one.

• 33:00Simon Sinek?

  If you, if, chicken liver is a nostalgic thing.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  And then it's specifically this guy's treatment of it, with the red wine, the chives on top. The, the beautiful bread, the beautiful sauteed onions underneath. Make it delicious in a way that.

• 33:14Simon Sinek?

  It makes it, it makes it a more, as if you can't make chicken liver mousse richer, he made it richer.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Well, that's a French influence. And we, we appreciate it.

• 33:25Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  You can, it's hard to argue, that's the best chicken liver I've ever had.

• 33:28Simon Sinek?

  My mother's is good. My mother, my mother's an amazing cook. We were spoiled as kids.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  I was not.

• 33:35Simon Sinek?

  We were spoiled. My mother was such an amazing cook. And she would experiment sometimes. Oh, I know what's coming now. Okay, I.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  You're killing me.

• 33:48Simon Sinek?

  I invited Ryan Bartlett, the founder of our sponsor, True Classic, to sit down for a conversation. We call this an ad with authenticity. One of the things I like about you and your company, which I think most people don't know, is how generous you guys are. You don't advertise your giving. It's not a thing you do for stunts or public relations. You are generous because you want to do good. I know this because my family, we volunteer for an organization. And we show up and there's a bunch of True Classic t-shirts being given out to the homeless. You just send them six pallets of t-shirts. There's no virtue signaling about, look how nice we are and you should be nice too. And, you know, buy one from us and we'll give one away.

• 34:32Simon Sinek?

  You just quietly get it done. And it's one of the most attractive things about you as an entrepreneur and as a human being.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Thank you. I appreciate that. For a long time, I never wanted to talk about any of it because to me, it felt gross to put it out there to the world. And it always felt very fake when I would see businesses just kind of checking the box of, this is our mission and we help the ocean and the end. I don't want to be that. I want to be the people that show up on demand for people. If there's a crisis, I want to be the one that they call and say, hey, we lost everything. Can you help us out? I'm like, of course. That's exactly what we're here to do. Not just some arbitrary organization that we're going to donate to. I want to make true impact for people right when they need it. There was a tornado last year in Nebraska. We sent a bunch of stuff, like just always things that are popping up. I'm jumping on them. And I'm making sure the team reacts to them too.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  If they hear something or overhear a customer lost everything, we're going way overboard for them. We're sending them stuff that isn't even t-shirts sometimes. We're just sending them things that they need. It's so magical for them that a company is thinking that far for them.

• 35:41Simon Sinek?

  This I'm very excited about. This is the only one we've gotten plates.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 35:45Simon Sinek?

  So, um, uh, my mother's an amazing cook and I remember like, we were so spoiled, the food was so good.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:51Simon Sinek?

  We didn't know that as kids, we just ate. It's just dinner. And then we'd go to friends' houses and we'd be like, "This is your dinner?" Like, like, just like, this is, oh. And then we start to realize like, mom's a great cook.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Oh, we're lucky.

• 36:04Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. It's like, my parents had a marriage that was far from perfect.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Holy crap, this is a Basque cheesecake.

• 36:14Simon Sinek?

  It is.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  One of our, uh, one of the places we go in season eight is San Sebastian and the Basque Country.

• 36:21Simon Sinek?

  You've done it already? You went there already?

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Have you been there?

• 36:24Simon Sinek?

  I have never.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Oh, well, if you like this little treat, I think you're gonna love going there.

• 36:29Simon Sinek?

  This is a great story.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:30Simon Sinek?

  Have, this is the Basque cheesecake from Pajolli in Santa Monica. Have you been there?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Yes, I've been there, but I haven't had their best.

• 36:35Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so I'm gonna tell you, now I'm gonna tell you the story behind this cheesecake.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  That's beautiful.

• 36:39Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so my friend, Will Godera, who I think you know, uh, he was the former owner of Levin Madison Park.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 36:46Simon Sinek?

  So Will's a foodie, right?

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:48Simon Sinek?

  To say the least.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:49Simon Sinek?

  Will and I are having dinner and he says, "We're doing Bang Bang tonight."

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Two dinners.

• 36:54Simon Sinek?

  So Bang Bang is, we had appetizers in one restaurant, main course in another restaurant, dessert in another restaurant.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  That's Bang Bang Bang.

• 37:01Simon Sinek?

  That's Bang Bang Bang. So we, we moved, and by the way, the main course was Wovo, just that night.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 37:06Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so we're sitting at Wovo and he says, "I know where we're going for dessert. We're going to Pajolli."

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Great.

• 37:15Simon Sinek?

  They have this Basque cheesecake and way it happens, two chefs went on, went on vacation.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:20Simon Sinek?

  To the Basque region.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:21Simon Sinek?

  And they tried this Basque cheesecake and they competed, just for, as a friendly bet, as chefs do, just for fun. Who could figure out?

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yes, good.

• 37:30Simon Sinek?

  That recipe.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Great.

• 37:32Simon Sinek?

  So the guy who owns the French restaurant figured it out. He, he won the little friendly contest.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:38Simon Sinek?

  So he's figured out the recipe for this amazing cheesecake. The problem is, he has a French restaurant. There is literally nothing in that restaurant that is not French. He cannot serve a Spanish dessert in a French restaurant. So what he does is, every night, they made one cheesecake. And if the staff liked you, they gave you a slice. You couldn't order it? You couldn't, they didn't charge you for it? And if you saw somebody get in, like, could I have a slice? They go, no.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 38:07Simon Sinek?

  So because Will's in the restaurant business, he says to me, this is one of the top five desserts I've had in my life. He says to me, and because he's in the restaurant business, he calls up his friend who owns the restaurant and says, do you have any cheesecake left? He says, we have one slice left. Will says, hold it for us. We show up, we drink way too much, whatever it's called, chartreuse.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:24Simon Sinek?

  And they, they, it was a lot. And then we eat the cheesecake.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:29Simon Sinek?

  It's one of the top five desserts I've ever had in my life.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And it's here.

• 38:33Simon Sinek?

  And here it is.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 38:34Simon Sinek?

  Okay. So there's only one more funny story to share. So you remember, you can't buy it, you can't order it, you can't get it. So I, uh, I'm on a date and I say to the girl, I got a surprise for you.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:47Simon Sinek?

  And I take her to Pajoli and we sit at the counter. And I sort of lean in to the, to the waiter and sort of put my hand up as if I'm sort of like, I've got, I was like, hey, uh, is, uh, is the chef here? He goes, no, he's not here today. He's like, and I'm sort of like trying to make is like, maybe, maybe he knows who I am. Like, maybe we can do this. And I say, um, any chance you can, uh, get a slice of cheesecake? He goes, uh, I think we can do that.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 39:14Simon Sinek?

  And I'm thinking, eh?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  I'm in.

• 39:16Simon Sinek?

  I'm in. And he brings us a slice of cheesecake. And it's the most amazing thing. And I've got brownie points because this girl's like, this guy can get cheesecake. And then he says, would you like anything else? And I hold up the menu and it says cheesecake, best cheesecake on the menu. So all I did was surreptitiously order something that's on the menu. They put it on the menu. They put it on the menu. And I didn't know that they put it on the menu.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  And the girl was like, wow, this guy can really order from the menu.

• 39:41Simon Sinek?

  Exactly. So the point is, anybody can go to Pajoli and have this cheesecake now.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Excellent.

• 39:47Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  How big a slice do you want?

• 39:49Simon Sinek?

  You've got it, it's gotta be small. You gotta eat those slices. This is the last thing we have.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Please make it small.

• 39:53Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 39:54Simon Sinek?

  Good?

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 39:58Simon Sinek?

  This is the

• 40:02Speaker 01

  This is the shit as they say.

• 40:03Simon Sinek?

  Wait, hold on, gotta get the middle bit.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 40:07Simon Sinek?

  This is, this cheesecake, okay, so for those who weren't looking, it is a gooey, drippy creamy cheesecake with a top like all best cheesecake is burnt.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:17Simon Sinek?

  Seared the top of the cheesecake.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 40:19Simon Sinek?

  So excited, didn't overeat the rest of the meal, so I have.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Thank you for this.

• 40:23Simon Sinek?

  Oh, this is, I'm so glad I found something you didn't know, because everything else, you own the restaurants.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  No, this is awesome.

• 40:28Simon Sinek?

  Okay, you ready?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, here we go.

• 40:29Simon Sinek?

  Here we go.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  That doesn't get better than that.

• 40:35Simon Sinek?

  Top five desserts of all time, right?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  It's, uh, yeah. It's unbelievable.

• 40:38Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 40:39Simon Sinek?

  Holy cow. I don't think there's any conversation we can have right now.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  I'm so glad I came.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  This could solve wars.

• 40:48Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. This is something very specific that everybody can relate to.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  It's the great, it's the great, unless you're lactose intolerant, or you can't eat sugar, or.

• 40:56Simon Sinek?

  If you're lactose intolerant.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Take a pill.

• 40:58Simon Sinek?

  Take a pill.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Take a lactaid.

• 40:59Simon Sinek?

  Take a, take a lactaid for this one, it's worth it. Or just suffer. Suffer indigestion.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's worth it. Food, I always say is the great connector. We all gotta eat, first of all, everybody on the planet eats. But if you and I never met and we sit down and we have something amazing like this, first of all, we're happy because it's so delicious. Next, we're talking, and we're in a better mood because the food was delicious, and we might share a smile or a laugh. So I always say food is the great connector, and then laughs are the cement.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  And so now, we had a nice lunch, and it was so nice, what's gonna happen? We wanna eat again.

• 41:38Simon Sinek?

  We definitely wanna eat again.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Right? So that's how friends are made. That's how, that's how romance begins.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  They call a date for a reason, right? You go on a date, where, where are you going? You're probably going to the movies, but you're gonna eat, because that's where you get to know the person.

• 41:56Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Over a pleasurable experience.

• 41:59Simon Sinek?

  Did you have a happy family, happy childhood?

• 42:03Speaker 01

  I have to say in retrospect, just like you were saying, you don't know what you have, you go to someone's house, I can't believe the food is so terrible, I must have great food at my house. No, we had, we didn't have lousy food, and a lot of the time, my family was yelling at each other. But we were, when we weren't yelling, we were laughing. My dad was very funny, and my mother also was funny, uh, and.

• 42:22Simon Sinek?

  Did, did your dad know? No, he was funny?

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Yes, he actually told jokes.

• 42:26Simon Sinek?

  Okay.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  He actually, the way my parents met was, my mom was on a date with a fella. And she went to a nightclub in New Jersey. On amateur night, and they listen to musicians, and then this young skinny tailor from the garment district gets up and tells old Jewish jokes. That she thought was hysterical. And she said, that guy, I think I liked that guy better than this guy I'm on the date with. And I always say, if my dad was not funny that night.

• 42:54Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  I'm not here. So I owe everything in my life to Max's sense of humor. And my mom's sense of humor for appreciating his sense of humor. It's our most underrated value as human beings. Sense of humor.

• 43:10Simon Sinek?

  Is everybody funny?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Some people sadly are born without a great sense of humor. But I think. It's who we're attracted to as friends. You don't have to have my exact sense of humor, you just have to appreciate mine and I have to appreciate yours.

• 43:26Simon Sinek?

  You don't have to be the joke teller, but you can be the laugher.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Yes, that's your part in the equation.

• 43:31Simon Sinek?

  A good team, I find, has like, on my team, for example, I have people who are like brilliant idea generators.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:36Simon Sinek?

  And they're terrible at execution. But I've got people who are fantastic, fantastic executors, but they're not the big idea generators. Not everybody has to have the same skill.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  So you did, you wouldn't need them.

• 43:45Simon Sinek?

  You need the friend who loves your jokes.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 43:48Simon Sinek?

  And that's what makes it work. Cause you encourage each other, you encourage each other.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Yes, but I tend to, I tend to be attracted to people who are. I think way funnier than me in different ways. Right? Like, that's the writer's room. Have you ever been in a writer's room?

• 44:03Simon Sinek?

  I've always wanted to.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  It's probably heaven on earth. If you like to laugh, you're literally getting paid to laugh.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  And then. The only sunshine coming in this room is the menu for lunch. And then you get to order whatever you want from wherever you want. This is at the peak of television. This may be gone now.

• 44:23Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  This, this life.

• 44:24Simon Sinek?

  Right. In our virtual world now.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Exactly, and and the end of entertainment as we know it.

• 44:31Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Right, where kids can make their own movies on the phone by speaking into it and saying, make me the, I want to be an out of space and do my own version of Star Wars. And I want to be the hero. And I like the girl down the street and make her the girl that I get. And make my friend over here the villain. And he pushes a button and then this is soon. This will happen.

• 44:50Simon Sinek?

  It's not far.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  And then AI creates. A movie that not only he can show on a giant screen, but he can hit a button and distribute it worldwide. Why does he need a studio? Why does he need an agent? Why does he need a movie theater? Why does he need, doesn't.

• 45:03Simon Sinek?

  Does that bother you?

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Of course, because the art is gone then.

• 45:07Simon Sinek?

  But here's the thing, I don't think so. What my, where I'm coming out on AI, especially when it comes to creativity.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:14Simon Sinek?

  I think what technology does is it reorganizes the focus. Right, so for example, we were an album culture.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:21Simon Sinek?

  We listened to eight tracks and and records and CDs and tapes. We're an album culture.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:26Simon Sinek?

  Until the MP3 player showed up. And now we're a song and playlist culture. Right, so the technology changed our preferences and our taste, changed our area of focus.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  And who did that screw?

• 45:37Simon Sinek?

  Uh.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  The artist.

• 45:40Simon Sinek?

  Uh, screwed some artists, gave life to new artists.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  But not the life that. Uh, you know, Beyonce has to tour because the album isn't going to make her the money that that she can make on tour.

• 45:54Simon Sinek?

  Okay, we're gonna go down this rabbit hole.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:55Simon Sinek?

  Okay, all it did, so it changed the business model.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:58Simon Sinek?

  And so we can't whine that technology has changed the business model. That's like publishing whining that there's an internet.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:05Simon Sinek?

  You know, remember, it's it's Netflix that pioneered streaming, not the television and movie industry. And it's Amazon that invented the e-reader and not the publishing industry.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 46:13Simon Sinek?

  And it's Apple, a computer company, that invented iTunes and not the music industry. It's because they're all clinging to the to the past and missing that technology changed us our lives. And you can change with it. Or you can go kicking and screaming, or you can go out of business.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  I have nothing against the technology. It's the fairness.

• 46:31Simon Sinek?

  Fairness, I mean, the business models change. And so Beyonce may have been able to make tons of her money from selling her albums.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:39Simon Sinek?

  And then the MP3 and the Spotify's, I get it, I get it.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:42Simon Sinek?

  Unfair, took it away, changed the business model. But I guarantee you that Beyonce makes more money on her tours than anybody with a couple of songs who had a one-hit-wonder through an MP3. The business model changed. And now the better the tours.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Correct me if I'm wrong though. AI is an amalgam of everything that AI takes from

• 47:05Simon Sinek?

  Correct. It's derivative.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  It is actually derivative. So it's a lot like stealing.

• 47:11Simon Sinek?

  It's derivative.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  How is it not like stealing? If a movie studio

• 47:16Simon Sinek?

  I don't know how this

• 47:17Speaker 01

  writes a script using AI.

• 47:19Simon Sinek?

  This has destroyed IP law. I mean, let's start there, like, the whole IP law probably needs to be rewritten.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  But if a movie studio

• 47:26Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  writes a movie script using AI, which has stolen plotlines, lines of dialogue, from human beings.

• 47:35Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  That studio owns that movie, don't they?

• 47:39Simon Sinek?

  I don't know the answer to that. Like I said, I think this is uncharted territory. However, what I think is more likely to happen is that a studio will take what it owns

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:50Simon Sinek?

  and feed it into the system. All the movies and IP it owns.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  They don't do that.

• 47:55Simon Sinek?

  Or let's say

• 47:56Speaker 01

  They just take, take, take, take from everybody.

• 47:58Simon Sinek?

  But I'm saying, if we're gonna talk legal, like, where there's no legal problems is, let's say, Amazon that now owns James Bond.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:07Simon Sinek?

  Puts all the James Bond movies in.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:09Simon Sinek?

  And says, make another James Bond movie for us based on all the previous James Bond movies.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:13Simon Sinek?

  They own all the IP anyway. They own the new IP that's spat out for the old IP.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Pretty sure they're not gonna stick to that rule.

• 48:21Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, that's the problem. I mean, that's a different, but like, but like, you can ask AI to write something in the style of me.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:28Simon Sinek?

  And it'll go on about why and purpose and all of this stuff.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:31Simon Sinek?

  Which is a 15-year-old book.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's mostly terrible now.

• 48:36Simon Sinek?

  It doesn't know what I'm gonna write.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yes, but it's mostly terrible now. But you could see in a few years it not being terrible.

• 48:44Simon Sinek?

  It's not terrible. Some of it's amazing. But as an artist myself, I think what people miss is that we're also result oriented. We want the product. Give me the movie. Give me the screenplay. Give me this. That they forget that what makes you you is writing nine frickin' seasons of Raymond.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:02Simon Sinek?

  And you are a better writer now than you were from season one. You're more nuanced. You understand dialogue better. You understand conflict better. There's no learning if AI does all the work for you. You might produce a good product, but you go through life, learning nothing, growing nowhere. And you'll have a class of artists that will be the same

• 49:27Simon Sinek?

  entry level human being after 15 year career as they were after a one year career. And I think it's the wisdom that we're forgetting. It's this very human thing that computers can't give us, which is it's the it's what makes me a better thinker, problem solver, better viewer of life, pattern connector, is not because of my

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Because you Googled the answer.

• 49:50Simon Sinek?

  It's not because I Googled the answer.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:51Simon Sinek?

  It's because I struggled to write my own book.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 49:55Simon Sinek?

  And that's what made me better at what I do. And my last book is a much more mature and better piece of literature than my first book.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:03Simon Sinek?

  First book's a nice idea, but it's, I wouldn't say it's well written.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  But the computer is gonna get better at that and it's gonna learn the way you learned over time.

• 50:13Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  And then replace you. You're not afraid of this future?

• 50:19Simon Sinek?

  I think it's

• 50:20Speaker 01

  We believe, maybe naively, that we will always have some value as people.

• 50:25Simon Sinek?

  I remember when the internet popped up and there were same, the same things like the death, the death of bricks and mortar stores. There would be no such thing as a store anymore because we're gonna do all our shopping on the internet. And what we forgot is people like shopping.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  They do, but some of that came true. And a lot of business fail.

• 50:43Simon Sinek?

  But some of it came true

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:45Simon Sinek?

  because of Amazon's pricing model and Amazon's ability to make it impossible to but again

• 50:51Speaker 01

  And the convenience.

• 50:52Simon Sinek?

  But it's business model, right?

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:54Simon Sinek?

  At the end of the day, we still enjoy going to stores and that I hear you, but I don't think it's because of the internet. It's because of the pricing that Amazon can offer.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  I think it's a little of both because when I can sit in my bed and order something and it comes by the end of the day.

• 51:10Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, that's the problem. I mean, remember when the early internet shopping, it came like two weeks. And so like convenient was going to the store.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Of course. But now that you can get your groceries.

• 51:18Simon Sinek?

  In the same day, same same hour.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  And even other stuff.

• 51:21Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  It is crazy.

• 51:23Simon Sinek?

  Well, I think we can agree on one thing.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:25Simon Sinek?

  We don't know what's gonna happen. We're probably all doomed. And so.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  So enjoy the moment.

• 51:31Simon Sinek?

  So enjoy the moment.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Surround yourself with amazing. Because in the end, they're gonna cancel you anyway.

• 51:36Simon Sinek?

  And there's that's today's little lesson.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  There's a little bow.

• 51:41Simon Sinek?

  I don't even have to summarize.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  And be specific.

• 51:46Simon Sinek?

  Do the show you wanna do because they're gonna cancel you anyway. And everything you talk about, be specific.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  I think so. Like just like you said, you all the the knowledge that you accumulated through struggle and hard work made you specifically you. There is no other you. And that applies to everyone.

• 52:05Simon Sinek?

  And I think so. That's a great question, which is, do we come, do we become more specifically us?

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:13Simon Sinek?

  Over time.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 52:14Simon Sinek?

  So are you less specifically you when you're young?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:17Simon Sinek?

  As a 21 year old, more generic than a 50 year old.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Cause you didn't live long enough yet to to.

• 52:24Simon Sinek?

  There's not enough specifics.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, you need the wrinkles.

• 52:28Simon Sinek?

  Got it.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  The little wrinkles.

• 52:29Simon Sinek?

  More wrinkles you have is the amount of specific experiences you have that made you you.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  That's right. The wrinkles are earned.

• 52:36Simon Sinek?

  Wrinkles are earned. The specifics are earned. I really like this. It's a great philosophy for life. I thought we were just gonna talk about food. That's really nice.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  That's a big part of it, and it's a great metaphor for a lot of things in life.

• 52:48Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Food is art.

• 52:52Simon Sinek?

  It can be, yeah. I don't understand people who-

• 52:54Speaker 01

  I think chefs are great writers.

• 52:56Simon Sinek?

  They're right.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  You write a recipe. You put ideas together that maybe haven't been together before. Roy Choi, for example. You know who he is?

• 53:06Simon Sinek?

  I don't.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Roy Choi created the Kogi truck. You know what that is?

• 53:11Simon Sinek?

  I don't.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  It changed the world. Why? Because here's a Korean-American who, growing up in LA, loves Mexican food and culture. He takes Korean barbecue and he puts it in a tortilla. It makes a Korean barbecue taco.

• 53:31Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Then he takes a truck and paints it with the word "Kogi" on it. And as the internet is coming, and people are writing now on the internet, "The Kogi truck is at Ventura and this. Come there." And crowds start coming. Now, people go, "Wait a minute. Food trucks used to be just be for construction sites. Now, they're cultural phenomenons." The reason you see food trucks everywhere on earth is because this guy-

• 54:01Simon Sinek?

  Brilliant.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  -put Korean barbecue in a taco.

• 54:04Simon Sinek?

  He's the OG.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Roy Choi.

• 54:07Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  That's- You should have him on, because that's a great story, and real entrepreneurship, and a work of art. That took over the world. We love a food truck. We love it because it's handy. Everyone is different. You can travel by going to a collection of food trucks, which, you know, a place like Austin will take an old parking lot and put a ring of food trucks around it that's been curated. We have a Mexican one, we have a barbecue one, we have an Indian one, we have this, and you have a food festival.

• 54:40Simon Sinek?

  So why shouldn't chefs be afraid of AI?

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Why shouldn't they be?

• 54:46Simon Sinek?

  You said that writers are under threat, musicians are under threat, painters are under threat, all because this AI can do what they do, so why not the chef? You said they're writers, they write these recipes, so why not the AI? Give me a recipe for this kind of dish with these kinds of ingredients.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Because the computerized restaurant could take their job away. If the truck can drive itself and the food can cook itself and serve itself to you, they're out of business.

• 55:13Simon Sinek?

  I don't think it'll ever happen.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  I hope not.

• 55:16Simon Sinek?

  But I'll tell you for a very simple reason. I want somebody to smile with me.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 55:20Simon Sinek?

  There's a cookie place in New York City that I went to. Everything's stark white and very futuristic and it looks like some Woody Allen movie. And you go in and there's a screen, you go bleep, bleep, bleep, and you say what kind of cookie you want. This person in the back gets the order on a screen and they prepare the cookie and they put it in a bag and then somebody hands, I think they have it, they just put it on the counter with your name on it. And the people, I was looking in the back and the people in the back looked so unhappy in a job, and it's not the job, it's not the mean...

• 55:47Speaker 01

  There's no social connection.

• 55:49Simon Sinek?

  It's not the mundaneness of making a cookie and put it in a bag. It's what makes my job fun is I want to talk to you and say hi and smile and say thank you and say please, like stupid little shit.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Also, you know, a pretty girl might come in.

• 56:03Simon Sinek?

  But I think what'll happen is people will demand it. And I think the companies will always offer what the market demands. And so companies might be looking for all this way to eliminate people, eliminate this and eliminate all of that, until the one person who starts the food truck, who says, you know what, we're making our own food so that you can see who makes it and we'll smile at you and hand it to you because you'll know that I made it with love. And that's the one that's going to have the line around the block and all the other AI trucks are going to put people in it because that's what the market demands.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Unless one thing.

• 56:29Simon Sinek?

  Go.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  That's the best cookie you ever had in your life.

• 56:32Simon Sinek?

  No, I don't even think that's it.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  If a machine made that best cheesecake right now, right, that we just had.

• 56:37Simon Sinek?

  All right, all right, you win.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  You'd still love that cheesecake, right?

• 56:41Simon Sinek?

  I love the story that goes with the cheesecake. I've got the story.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Of course, I always say the story makes it taste better. I really believe that. And if grandma smiles at me while she's giving me her, you know, beautiful pasta in Italy, I'm in love with the whole thing. I'll go this far. I asked Thomas Keller, because I have a podcast too, you'll come online. It's called Naked Lunch and we eat every time.

• 57:02Simon Sinek?

  I only eat with you.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Thomas Keller came and did the... And I said, you have advice for me for the diner? And you know what he said? The number one thing, what do you think it was?

• 57:12Simon Sinek?

  What?

• 57:13Speaker 01

  What, you wanna guess?

• 57:14Simon Sinek?

  Great staff.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  That's it. Service.

• 57:16Simon Sinek?

  Service.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  That's everything.

• 57:17Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Especially for a diner. You want a warm cozy hug of a place. The food has to be good.

• 57:23Simon Sinek?

  Bad service can ruin good food.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Of course it can.

• 57:27Simon Sinek?

  And great service enhances mediocre food.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  And you've.

• 57:30Simon Sinek?

  And if you've got both, you're a winner.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  And if you fall in love with the people in the place, you're a customer. You're coming back.

• 57:37Simon Sinek?

  You're coming back.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Right? We all wanna be accepted.

• 57:40Simon Sinek?

  And that's why I think we're safe from AI taking over the world. It's because fundamentally, people want human beings. They wanna feel loved. They wanna feel held. They wanna look someone in the eye. You know what everybody wants? A hug.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 57:52Simon Sinek?

  A metaphorical hug of good service. Or a literal hug. You know as well as I do.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  I give those out in the show.

• 57:58Simon Sinek?

  You know as well as I do that if your staff is amazing, and a customer comes in, they will hug the staff. The regulars will get hugs, because that's how people are.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes. It's vital. AI will never take that away, but they could take away a lot.

• 58:14Simon Sinek?

  So you kind of, I think, yes, but I think again, it goes back to the Beyonce challenge, which is the enterprising ones.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Will figure it out.

• 58:23Simon Sinek?

  Will figure it out. The enterprising ones will be able to put their finger on the zeitgeist and say, you know what? I can't make money on an album anymore. But the album is my marketing tool for my tour.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:34Simon Sinek?

  I'm gonna do the best tours of anybody, the best concerts of anybody.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:39Simon Sinek?

  And instead of slaving away, trying to market my album.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:43Simon Sinek?

  I'm gonna slave away, making the best tour I can make.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:47Simon Sinek?

  And I think it just changes the energy and it changes the model. And so because we're in a period of flux right now, the people with the old business models that can't imagine new business models are the ones screaming the death of everything.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:58Simon Sinek?

  For good reason, it's gonna be young people.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:00Simon Sinek?

  Or really enterprising and experienced people. But young people who are not encumbered by the old business models will be the ones figuring out the new models.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Listen, it's always been.

• 59:09Simon Sinek?

  Or the truck.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  A small set of people who make the most out of the business. There's only one Tom Hanks, right? There's only, there's very few giant movie stars. And the kid that I described who talks into his phone and pushes a button and a movie comes out.

• 59:25Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  The kid who's best at that will be the new Tom Hanks.

• 59:30Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. I was walking down Hollywood Boulevard.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:34Simon Sinek?

  And I'm looking at all the stars of all the famous people.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:36Simon Sinek?

  And I didn't know most of them.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:38Simon Sinek?

  Because everybody gets forgotten.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Hey, thanks, Simon. This is so uplifting.

• 59:44Simon Sinek?

  I guarantee you, my niece doesn't know who Arnold Schwarzenegger is. You know, I'm pretty confident my niece doesn't know who Ray Romano is. And it's no disrespect to anything you or Ray did. It's just like, time goes forwards, which is why you're doing new things.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  You have to do new things.

• 59:58Simon Sinek?

  You're like the Larry David of the Ray Romano Show. Which is...

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 1:00:02Simon Sinek?

  The guy in the background.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Yes, except my show now is...

• 1:00:05Simon Sinek?

  You didn't...

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  Why curb your enthusiasm?

• 1:00:07Simon Sinek?

  But why curb your enthusiasm? Don't curb your enthusiasm.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:00:10Simon Sinek?

  Was there ever a temptation like Larry?

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Simon Sinek?

  To make a show of you?

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  This is it. This is my version. I've used him as an example. I am the guy who was behind the scenes and now I'm in the front of the scenes. But this is my personality, specifically me.

• 1:00:26Simon Sinek?

  Larry has said...

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Simon Sinek?

  That his show is an exaggerated version of him.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  It's not. I've done his show twice. I know him. He might be a little nicer on the show.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  He's not a people person.

• 1:00:41Simon Sinek?

  No.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  No, and I love him. He is uniquely and specifically him. And there is a great need for him in the world. There's nobody funnier.

• 1:00:51Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Every line out of his mouth is an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. The first time I met him.

• 1:00:57Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  I said, "Hey, it's great to meet you." I was at a party.

• 1:01:00Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  "Great to meet you." He doesn't say hello. He says, "You think it's all right to throw gum in the fireplace?"

• 1:01:07Simon Sinek?

  He just says what's on his mind.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  You exist for him to talk to.

• 1:01:11Simon Sinek?

  The world is merely a fishbowl for him to swim through.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Here's a face I can ask. Let me get your opinion. Let me test this theory.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:22Simon Sinek?

  All right, I have a couple of questions here for you. You created Everybody Loves Raymond and Somebody Feed Phil. It's always got some name in it to give to that, to do something with it.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Do something with Phil.

• 1:01:33Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. So what would you name my show?

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:01:36Simon Sinek?

  If it's not the optimism, a little bit of optimism. It's a bit of, that's the name of our show. It's a bit of optimism.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Somebody Talk to Simon.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  It's so lonely.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  By the way, Somebody Feed Phil, the reason I love that title and chose that title is because it denotes someone who can't take care of himself.

• 1:01:55Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  So right away, it's a specific character.

• 1:01:57Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  That's me.

• 1:01:59Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  I can't cook.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  Somebody better feed Phil because otherwise Phil will die. And I have my brother who produces the show with me. And so he runs the show while I'm the monkey in the middle. And he pushes me out of my comfort zone because he thinks that'll be entertaining for people. I fight him every step of the way. And every time I do the thing that I did not want to do, it was worth doing.

• 1:02:24Simon Sinek?

  Like?

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Jumping in the cold water off the Irish coast?

• 1:02:27Simon Sinek?

  That sounds awful.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  It is awful. But I'm glad I did it because I lived.

• 1:02:33Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  And I did it. I jumped into the ocean with these maniacs who do it every morning.

• 1:02:37Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  And I did it. It's in the show. It's in the Dublin episode, if you want to see it. And I didn't do it at first. They invited me. I said, no, I'll be here on the side with hot chocolate when you get out. Because I saw they were all freezing. They jumped in the sea off the Irish coast. We're crazy people. Every day, no matter the weather. But then I fall in love with the people over the course of the day. They're charming. It's like a town full of puppies, the nicest people in the world. Okay? And I leave them, I hug them, I have tears in my eyes because they were so special. Go back to my hotel.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  And I'm thinking and I'm thinking and I can't let go of these people and how great they are. And I call my brother, he's in his hotel. I said, I got good news and bad news. He goes, what? I go, I think I know how to end this episode, which I never think of beforehand. It's made in the editing. We put it together and we see the theme develop and that's the show. We get what we get and then we construct something out of that.

• 1:03:32Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  He said, "What's the bad news?" "I gotta go back and jump in that water." "Because I'm feeling like they have something to teach me and I love them." "And I have to walk the walk." "You know, I can't just say, 'Try new things.'" "I have to be willing to do that, otherwise, why do I have a show?" And he says, "Great!" He wants me to jump in. And we go back and now it's getting dark and it's raining. So it's colder than it was in the morning. And I strip off and I jump in that thing and I'm telling you, it was crazy cold. Like, I scream. You see it in the thing. Lasted maybe thirty seconds. I get out, shivering, you know, drying myself off. I'm happy. Why?

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Because I lived. I did it. And you're gonna think I'm making this up. That was six years ago.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Every single day since then, I take a shower in the morning and at the end of the shower, I put it on cold for thirty seconds. And it brings me right back there. It also is very good for you, apparently.

• 1:04:37Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  The cold plunge, they call it, right? So I do it with the shower. Thirty seconds. I built myself up from ten seconds.

• 1:04:44Simon Sinek?

  No kidding.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Thirty seconds and you can do it. And I'll tell you one thing, you forget all your troubles. Number one. Number two, it's invigorating and you feel, "Right, now I'm ready for the day." It's almost like I'm thinking about all this crap and now I have a clean slate. And now I'm ready. Here I go. That can happen because you took that baby step out of your comfort zone and changed your life. That changed my life.

• 1:05:09Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. You are wonderful. You are the personification of joie de vivre. You love, you love life.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  Because I feel very, very lucky. I know not everybody gets to live their dream. And I'm not discounting that I had to work hard to get it, but I know how lucky I am. And that informs everything I do. So when you start with that plateau of gratitude, right?

• 1:05:36Simon Sinek?

  I think, but I think, but that there's a difference there. And you just said it.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Simon Sinek?

  The plateau of gratitude is not the plateau of luck. You said, I'm lucky. You're not, you're grateful. There's a difference. Lucky is winning a lottery.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:05:47Simon Sinek?

  Right?

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:05:48Simon Sinek?

  You did, you did. Yes, okay.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  You have to be lucky.

• 1:05:52Simon Sinek?

  I agree.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  And once you are lucky enough to be lucky, you must be grateful for that.

• 1:05:56Simon Sinek?

  And I'm not making the case, oh, you worked hard for it. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying what I think there's something to be, when somebody has something that others don't get to have. I don't think we want to think of you as lucky. But we want to know that if you have something that I either want or crave or look up to.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  That you appreciate.

• 1:06:15Simon Sinek?

  I just want to know that you appreciate it. I feel lucky. Don't get me wrong. I feel lucky for everything that I've had. And I know luck played a huge part and timing played a huge part. You know, I am aware of that. All of that said.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:26Simon Sinek?

  I have gratitude.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:28Simon Sinek?

  And I think when I hear of others who call themselves lucky, I maybe I'm just speaking for myself.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Simon Sinek?

  I just want to hear them say, I'm grateful and I'm good.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  I think.

• 1:06:38Simon Sinek?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And you.

• 1:06:42Simon Sinek?

  Cause you just said it, a platform of gratitude.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, plateau of gratitude. That's like the baseline.

• 1:06:46Simon Sinek?

  The basis is you have to have a platform of gratitude.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  I'm already grateful.

• 1:06:49Simon Sinek?

  I'm already a winner. I'm a winner.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Look, I got my wife next to me for 35 years. I got the dog at the foot of my bed. I won already, no matter what happens today.

• 1:06:57Simon Sinek?

  Every part of the day is, is every part of the day after that moment is the lucky.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:03Simon Sinek?

  You start with grateful and lucky is upon grateful.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  And we appreciate what we have. And then, once you've have that, now what? How about giving a little back?

• 1:07:12Simon Sinek?

  Agreed.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  How about sharing it with the people? It's only good if you can share.

• 1:07:15Simon Sinek?

  Life is more fun when you get to share with others.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:07:18Simon Sinek?

  I keep trying to end this because there's a clock that says you gotta end. But I just keep enjoying talking to you.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Thank you. Well, we're not dead yet. We'll, we'll talk some more.

• 1:07:26Simon Sinek?

  I would love that.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  And eat some more.

• 1:07:27Simon Sinek?

  Oh, this was, thanks for sharing food with me.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:07:30Simon Sinek?

  You're a joy.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  You're a joy.

• 1:07:32Simon Sinek?

  Just a lot of joy. A lot of gratitude and joy.

• 1:07:42Simon Sinek?

  A bit of optimism is brought to you by The Optimism Company, and is lovingly produced by our team Lindsay Garbenius, David Ja, and Devon Johnson. If I was able to give you any kind of insight, or some inspiration, or made you smile, please subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts for more. And if you're trying to get answers to a problem at work, or want to advance a dream, maybe I can help. Simply go to simoncene.com. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.