Captain Sherry Walker Reveals the Real Reason for All These Plane Crashes

Sherry Walker has been a commercial airline pilot for almost 35 years. She says DEI has so completely undermined safety standards that pilots are sometimes afraid to leave the cockpit for fear of what their co-pilots will do unattended. (00:00) Why Are All These Planes Crashing? (04:26) DEI Pilot Training (12:41 What Caused the Plane/Helicopter Crash That Killed 67 in DC? (15:06) FAA Corruption (27:02) The Next Generation of Pilots (36:00) Transgender Pilots Paid partnerships with: Masa Chips: Get 20% off first-time orders with code TUCKER at https://masachips.com/discount/TUCKER PureTalk: Switch your cell phone service to a company you can be PROUD to do business with. https://PureTalk.com/Tucker PreBorn: To donate please dial pound two-fifty and say keyword "BABY" or visit https://preborn.com/TUCKER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  So you've been flying for a living since 1991. So that's almost 35 years, which is amazing. For the rest of us, we're about the same age. It seems like commercial air travel in the United States has declined in, like, at a shocking level, rate. It's just much worse. A lot of things have gotten better. We have the internet and iPhones. Why is commercial air travel in this country, and not around the world, but in this country specifically, like, much worse than it was? What is that?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  Well, I think legitimately, there's been a corporate change in this country. ESG started to take over. You've got the Larry Finks of the world that are driving corporations or CEOs toward issues that not necessarily are customer-oriented.

• 1:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  So when...

• 1:42Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, ESG doesn't help the customer?

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Well, not the internal customer, anyway. So as we go through this process, this slow creep, those need to set an investment score, people with differing ideas of customer service, and what's important, are able to drive forward their message. So we get away from customer service. Airlines run on three things, right? They run on fuel, planes, and people. When we start taking... The people out of the mix, right? Because it's all about buy more airplanes. It's about driving that score so we can drive the share prices so that we can then get the lower financing rate to get airplanes.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  We go away from that time when a Gordon Bethune or Herb Kelleher said, you take care of your internal people, they'll take care of your customer. So everything's bottom line now, Tucker.

• 2:37Tucker Carlson?

  And yet ESG is not really, like strictly speaking, bottom line. It pleases Larry Fink, who's probably done more than any person to really hurt this country, but sidebar. But it, you know, for your average customer, you're like, well, you get the feeling that like incompetent people are in air traffic control, incompetent people are in the cockpit. I don't know if that's true or not, but it shakes people's faith, scares the crap out of people and then planes start crashing and you're like, that's why. That seems like against the core interests of the business.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  I would agree, but because people at the corporate level want to drive the interest rate down to be able to grow because it's all about expanding, who is the biggest, right? And so they have to follow some of those mandates.

• 3:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  And so then we start looking at a particular CEO who said in 21, 50% of my incoming pilots will be women or people of color. First of all, that number is impossible. They don't exist. But when you take merit out of it and you start hiring people based on an attribute that has nothing to do with flying airplanes or controlling them, you start moving down a path of incompetence and it breeds itself all the way down throughout every department in the airline.

• 3:58Tucker Carlson?

  Nicely put. I should note the obvious, which is that you are a woman and you started flying, you said commercially in 1991, the year I left college. So like there can't have been too many female pilots flying commercially in 1991.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  The original 21 female airline pilots broke the glass ceiling. I didn't break it, but it kind of crawled through because of them and you know, on we go. But in all of my career, I've always been one of the guys. I'm an airmen. I'm proud to be an airmen. You can't call me an air person. I've earned it because I've done exactly what everyone else has done. And so when a passenger comes on and they look in the cockpit now today. They look a little sideways that there's a woman up here.

• 4:41Tucker Carlson?

  Definitely.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  And especially if I might be sitting next to a Hispanic or an African American, they're wondering how we got our jobs.

• 4:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, that is absolutely right.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  DEI hurts those that weren't a product of it as well. And that's unfair to me and to my coworkers.

• 4:55Tucker Carlson?

  So have you noticed this internally? You said a CEO of an airline announced four years ago that we're going to hire 50% female or non-white pilots, but do you feel that as a pilot? Do you notice the standards changing?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  I don't know that I noticed the standard changing, but I know what's expected of me has changed. Quarterly, we have a computer-based training and it was kind of insidious, the way they crept it in here. First, it's a little, don't discriminate against people. The next thing is a little more. At my airline last year, I was asked in the DEI training to certify that Tom says, who is now Kathy, that he's a woman, therefore he's always been a woman. Now, wait a minute. I'm a faithful person. He's a dude in a dress. And I am not going to agree that I will believe that he's always been a woman. So I said, no.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Several people said, no. We had to apply for religious accommodations. And then we were asked to do what we always do, which is just treat people with dignity and respect. I've done that forever, you know? I don't care what, who you love, right? But I do, I will always treat you with dignity and respect, but only because of the pushback. Now, this year's training, they've dialed it back, but they're trying to creep things in that don't matter, Tucker. What matters is how to fly and approach. Do you know the regulations? Are you safe? Right? This other stuff is distracting and it's distracting at the FAA as well.

• 6:30Tucker Carlson?

  So how has anyone explained why it's relevant, the color of a pilot?

• 6:37Speaker 02

  No, I have no idea.

• 6:39Tucker Carlson?

  So it started with like, we have, you know, you're probably racist. We have to make you non racist.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 6:45Tucker Carlson?

  And then it goes from there to it's really important, the skin color of a pilot is really important somehow, but no one ever says why.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  No, or, or, you know, whether they wear a dress or pants.

• 6:55Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  My case. So, uh, you know, in the US, 96.4% of all pilots are male.

• 7:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Right. So there's like less than 4% female airline transport pilots. We can do everything and I'm advocate for doing everything we can to get people interested in the job. But Tucker, there are some people who just don't need to be doing the job either. And you can't fit a square peg in a round hole. I can teach anyone to fly. Sure. But there's some that I would not want to fly in my family.

• 7:22Tucker Carlson?

  Have you seen those people?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 7:26Tucker Carlson?

  Like, give me an example.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  One of my first students, female, I tried to teach her how to fly. She could fly, but she just couldn't put it back together. You know, when you go around, it's push the power up and it was dainty. It was just some skill sets that they just don't have and aggression and, you know, a willingness to get out there and learn it, you know?

• 7:45Tucker Carlson?

  To manhandle the machine, right?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to be in control, especially in a Cessna, right?

• 7:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  You know, it's, it's not like my auto throttle, big 767 autopilot, et cetera. But the bigger problem we're having today is because it's a lucrative career, a lot of people want, they've been talked into getting involved and so they see the money. They might not be quite fit for it. I'm, I'm also a college professor. I teach human factors for Indiana Wesleyan. So I deal with a lot of the undergraduates and the people coming up. People quit their jobs midlife. Oh, I'm going to chase the money. I don't realize what they're doing. And, and it's a different generation and my son is of that generation. So I don't want to speak badly of them, but the priorities are different. Right? And so to get them to understand the commitment that it takes to succeed in this career and to get all the

• 8:33Speaker 02

  way through it. And then to have them, you know, it's kind of entitlement, if I can say that, you know?

• 8:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  And they grow up. And I don't want people to think I'm saying, you know, I walked a mile in the snow to school, therefore you're not qualified, right?

• 8:47Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  But airplane technology has changed. We learned to manhandle those Cessna 172s. And from that, we learned how to manhandle the next biggest airplane. These kids are growing up in glass cockpits with computers. They're learning to fly with their fingers. When they get to the airlines, it's not an aviator that's coming there. It's an operator. And so when they take off, put the autopilot on. Fly the autopilot with auto throttles to landing. Ask Al Haynes in Sioux City, Iowa, how to fly an airplane without an autopilot. He saved a lot of lives. That skill is not there and it takes time to build that skill. We could even take those young 1,500 hours and we're doing it. But it takes a long time to mentor.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  So we've got pilots now that are coming in at minimum skills, having learned on glass cockpits, and in a year upgrading to captain. I had 12 years of watching the good and the bad of the airline world. And I took the good from them and I left the bad behind. And I think I'm a pretty decent captain now. But those kids are jumping so fast. And then they're running the unions because they're young and they're eager. And so us old people are saying, hey, you know what? We're at a critical moment where we don't have qualified pilots. We'd like to keep them a little longer. We'd be willing to work an extra couple of years, but they vote and they say, no, get out of my seat, old man or old woman. Excuse me. They don't want to raise the pilot age.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  So the Airline Pilots Association is complicit in the problem.

• 10:20Tucker Carlson?

  It feels like everything is fine until there's a problem. So you read about even now, you read about planes stalling. You know, something happens and the plane just falls out of the sky. And I've read a number of times of trained pilots who, you know, apply the throttle and point upwards as it's stalling, which I don't think is the right. I think it's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. But they panic under pressure. So that seems like a huge problem if you're not screening carefully for temperament, ability to think clearly under duress, and you're not allowing people to accumulate relevant experience before turning over the cockpit to them, no?

• 11:01Speaker 02

  I would agree.

• 11:02Tucker Carlson?

  Like, describe, if you don't mind, since you've flown for so long, a scenario where something goes wrong unexpectedly and you have to think independently from the autopilot.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Well, the most dangerous part of your flight, most people don't know it, is takeoff in a jet.

• 11:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Why? Why is it most dangerous?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  As we get to the end of the runway at critical speed, V1, we call it, V1, liftoff, the airplane is at full power, and you have an engine failure. Now you have asymmetrical thrust. And so it's very critical to lower the nose, do the proper steps, and a lot of times there's critical terrain, so we have a path we have to fly, and a lot of things are happening very quickly. And so doing it by the book, it's what we train for, over and over and over again.

• 11:45Tucker Carlson?

  Losing an engine on takeoff.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  It is the most critical point of your entire flight. And so that's what we train for. That's what they pay me for.

• 11:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  They don't pay me for, for the simple stuff, the landings and cruise at altitude and all that. They pay me for that V1 cut.

• 12:04Tucker Carlson?

  Really? V1 cut?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yes. Right at the speed, we call it V1, velocity one. So at that critical speed, when we V1, rotate the airplane off the runway, engine failure, asymmetrical thrust, kicks in a whole bunch of rudder to a 76, it takes a lot. You know, you stand on it, get it straight, and fly it up to roughly 800 feet, lower the nose, work the checklist. And it's a two-man job. That's a critical reason. We can't go to single pilot.

• 12:31Tucker Carlson?

  How is it a two-man job?

• 12:33Speaker 02

  Because somebody's got to read the checklist, and somebody's got to fly the airplane. I can't fly that airplane looking down at that checklist.

• 12:40Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, that does happen, right?

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. And everyone we've had, that I can remember, has been extremely successful.

• 12:48Tucker Carlson?

  Really? So people survived them all?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  People survived. The last actual death in the US transport category, outside of the commuters, 2005, Southwest, and it actually wasn't onboard the plane. It was at the gas station across the street of Midway. So we have an incredible safety record. But we have that safety record because of the people up front, right? The system's kind of working against us, though. I don't know if you've seen the preliminary results of the DCA midair?

• 13:16Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  We have a serious problem.

• 13:19Tucker Carlson?

  So, describe what you think happened there.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  It's not what I think happened.

• 13:22Tucker Carlson?

  So, DCA, the plane that hit the helicopter over the Potomac.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Right, the helicopter that hit the airplane over the Potomac.

• 13:27Tucker Carlson?

  DCA being the in-town airport in Washington.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Sorry, I shouldn't speak in Ling.

• 13:29Tucker Carlson?

  Washington Reagan National.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Thank you. No, I know what I know from watching the NTSB press conference.

• 13:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  And the chairwoman was speaking, she explained several things, it's only preliminary, no blame was assigned at this point. I have my personal belief I'm blame.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  But the design of the system failed those passengers, okay? The way that route through there was designed, they looked back for 11 years. 945-plus thousand potential incursions in 11 years. My teeth hit the floor.

• 14:11Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I thought we had air traffic control to prevent that.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  We do, but the problem she detailed is the design of the system. That approach, if the helicopter is in the right place, the perfect ideal place, the clearance between the approaching aircraft and the helicopter at one point is as low as 75 feet.

• 14:33Tucker Carlson?

  Come on!

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Watch her, watch her debrief. I was astounded. The rotor blades on that helicopter are like 30 feet radius. Holy cow. And now we know the helicopter was outside of the ideal place, and obviously, 75 feet, Tucker, when I pre-flight an airplane between my first officer and myself, the regulation says they have to be within 75 feet, so right there we've taken out the protection. What in the world was the FAA doing?

• 15:06Tucker Carlson?

  And this is in the nation's capital, and these are military helicopters and commercial aircraft. All eyes are on that airport. That airport has all kinds of restrictions on it after 9/11, you know better than anybody.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:17Tucker Carlson?

  You know, no private aviation, all this stuff. They really pay a lot of attention. It's like 10 seconds from the White House.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:23Tucker Carlson?

  So if they're that sloppy at DCA, of all airports.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:28Tucker Carlson?

  What the hell are they doing in Santa Monica or wherever?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, Wichita, you know.

• 15:32Tucker Carlson?

  LAX, yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Boma, yeah, who knows? Who knows? Where does the data go? The problem is, the FAA is two-fold master, right? A regulatory body, a promotion of the industry. So...

• 15:47Tucker Carlson?

  What is it? I'm sorry. I don't know what that means. Promotion of the industry.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  The charge to the FAA is to promote air travel in the United States and to regulate it.

• 15:57Tucker Carlson?

  Huh.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  It's on the... That's been their mandate from the beginning. Yeah.

• 16:01Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:03Tucker Carlson?

  So they're the policeman and the PR agent?

• 16:05Speaker 02

  I guess, because how did Boeing get the right to self-certify the MAX, right?

• 16:10Tucker Carlson?

  What does it mean, self-certify the MAX?

• 16:12Speaker 02

  An inspector didn't have to go look at the 737 MAX. Boeing had the right to certify itself.

• 16:18Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  That's been pulled back. Everything that happens in aviation, every regulation happens as the result of blood. Right? And so, nobody's being proactive in this agency. Now, I love, I love Secretary Duffy, and I love his attitude, and it looks like the new nominee for the FAA Administrator is great. But the question is, the next level bureaucrats, these are people who have, for their entire careers, be it at, and a lot came from the military, they like sitting behind green government desks and drinking green government, or, excuse me, drinking government coffee. And so, you know, to like, have to get up and go over there and look at those reports or do something with them, that's, that's gotta change.

• 17:01Tucker Carlson?

  So last year, I get home, and there are all these boxes in the kitchen. I wonder what these are. I open up one, and they are tortilla chips made by a company I'd never heard of called Masa. Masa chips are not like other tortilla chips in that they are all natural. There are only three ingredients in the chips, and there are no seed oils whatsoever. My wife had ordered these, because she's a healthy person, and so I immediately hit them hard. And they're delicious. And not only are they delicious, they don't make you feel bad. You hit any kind of chip on the market in the United States, eat a whole bag of them, for example, and man, you do not feel good. I'm not gonna get more specific, but you just, ugh, it's like a head injury. You eat a bag of Masa chips, and I can confirm this, because I did, and you feel great. You feel totally fine, because it's real food. There's nothing weird in there.

• 17:46Tucker Carlson?

  There are no weird chemicals, and, once again, there are no seed oils, just three simple ingredients. And so I thought, well, this is a pretty amazing company, making a snack food that's not gonna kill you, and you don't have to feel bad about it. It's like, basically, what your grandparents ate. So we reached out to Masa and said, hey, if you ever... Do advertising, we'd love to advertise because we love the chips and they said, "Sure." And so that's what we're doing right now. We're telling the truth about something that we eat and love and we think is great and recommend it strongly on the basis of more personal experience than I want to admit in public, but they're really, really good. So you can go to masachips.com/discount/tucker to start snacking. Well, you get 20%

• 18:30Tucker Carlson?

  off your first order. We enjoy them.

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• 20:26Tucker Carlson?

  We do too. So here's what we know, just to go back to the DCA crash for a minute because it's

• 20:31Speaker 02

  And all I know is what she said in her press conference. It is, it was astounding.

• 20:36Tucker Carlson?

  Why don't we know who was flying the helicopter?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  I'm sure they do, based on, I mean, the voices. One was a female, one was male, right? So the flying pilot is never the talking pilot. So just listening to the tapes, you could tell if it's a female voice, then the male was flying. If it was a male voice, female's flying. So I don't know.

• 20:57Tucker Carlson?

  Why the hesitance to assign blame? All these people died.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no. It's not hesitance to sign blame. This is the initial, right? This is just the fact piece. It takes up to a year. They go through all the, the flight data. We don't know if she was off her location because of a mechanical failure, right? You know, we all want the answer as to why, but we, in the industry, want the fix.

• 21:21Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  So, so was the, were the altimeters off? Was it a training issue? Was somebody in the wrong place? Was it air traffic control, et cetera? So we've got to go through all of that and they'll recreate it and superimpose it and fly it in a simulator and check these, all these different pieces and parameters and then they'll start looking at blame.

• 21:40Tucker Carlson?

  But your point is the structure itself was reckless and crazy.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  The system was broken and it should have never happened.

• 21:46Tucker Carlson?

  There was a plane in, I know you saw this in Canada, I think in Toronto at Pearson, that came in really, really hard on landing and flipped over. Remarkably, everyone survived.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Great job by the flight attendants.

• 22:01Tucker Carlson?

  I guess that's my point. Wherever you get to the stage where you're relying on the flight attendants.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  To save you?

• 22:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  But that's what they're trained to do. So that was actually perfect.

• 22:11Tucker Carlson?

  And God bless them, of course. But like, how did we get to the point where, like, how did it flip over? How do you flip over a plane on a runway? I don't understand that.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  They haven't given out the preliminary. I have my personal opinion. It's only opinion.

• 22:24Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, and you're obviously.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  We know the female was flying, right? Because of the radio calls. And I'm a human factors expert. Part of that involves vision. So I'm thinking that they were coming down and you've seen the snow kind of swirl across the road a little bit.

• 22:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, for sure.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  I think she was looking at the point and she was ready to transition her eyes and land. And she got a swirl and I think she lost a little bit of, you know, SA situational awareness with the runway. That's what I think. Cause she flew it right into the runway. Hard.

• 22:55Tucker Carlson?

  So that that was the core problem. She hit too hard.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  She hit too hard and it collapsed. It broke the gear and one wing went up. High wing is flying, low wing is not, and it flipped right over.

• 23:06Tucker Carlson?

  Damn, remarkable.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Some people think it is involving, you know, a gust, a last minute shear. But I don't see the ailerons moving on the wings to counteract that. So I still think it has something to do with just a little bit of situational awareness. At the end, we'll know, we'll know in thirty days.

• 23:22Tucker Carlson?

  So if you're moving people through the process at accelerated speed, both for ideological reasons and for practical reasons.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Right, you gotta fill seats.

• 23:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yep. You're and you're hiring on the basis of a relevant criteria, then inevitably you're going to get a reduced skill level. Like, how could you not?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Especially when the pilots are worried about their rock videos and they're part of a clique, if you've seen it. The girls at Endeavor embarrassed me.

• 23:48Tucker Carlson?

  Who, I missed this.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  You didn't see the video?

• 23:50Tucker Carlson?

  No, but I could tell I'd be appalled by it.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was some promo video done by a bunch of young ladies. And they were talking about, you know, all female crew. And I think it was a recruiting video, but it was embarrassing to those of us who worked hard.

• 24:04Tucker Carlson?

  What airline was this?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  That was the airline Endeavor, I think it was.

• 24:07Tucker Carlson?

  Endeavor.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  The one that flipped in Toronto.

• 24:10Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, seriously?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  It was all over the place.

• 24:12Tucker Carlson?

  And they put out a TikTok of like-

• 24:14Speaker 02

  But it was before that.

• 24:14Tucker Carlson?

  Girl Power TikTok?

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, Girl Power TikTok came out. And of course, it broke the internet after the accident. And so I want to fly with professional adults, not children. And that was kind of embarrassing.

• 24:27Tucker Carlson?

  Have you personally ever flown with someone who you thought wasn't quite up to the job?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:32Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, wow.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:33Tucker Carlson?

  How can you tell?

• 24:36Speaker 02

  You can tell if their head's in the game. I had one young man who had a broken heart and we solved that problem. I had him replaced on the next trip. He was a little distracted. Some guys kind of all over the place with a stick. It's interesting to watch your military, single-seat guys transition to transport category because they want to do this, you know, but they settled down. Most recently, and the most scary one I've had, I was flying. And I was flying a visual approach into Houston. And we're at fifteen hundred feet and runway is in sight, we're all set. And he'd watched me fly for a little bit and he says, can I ask a question? Of course, it's sterile cockpit, you're not supposed to, but I go, yeah. He goes, what are you looking at when you fly a visual approach?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  I was astounded.

• 25:23Tucker Carlson?

  The ground?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  I said, when we get on the ground, we'll talk about this. No, you're cross checking your instruments, you're double checking the ILS, there's some outside light indicators, there's all the inside outside to aviate an airplane, right? And you're checking your speed. And he really didn't understand. And I said, why do you not understand? He said, because in the simulator, they told me, fly the autopilot to 50 feet, click it off, look up and land. I almost fell over. And I've talked to a lot of people about this, and I don't really think that that's what they were training. I think what they were trying to train was how to do a visual approach in a simulator that doesn't allow it, and they just need to check the blocks. So you'll learn this out on the line, you know, this

• 26:07Speaker 02

  is how we're going to teach you to fly the simulator only. But he understood that to be how you would operate in an airplane. So the disconnect is there because the experience level wasn't there. So if I have a pilot approaching me saying, what are you looking at when you land an airplane? That's a problem.

• 26:25Tucker Carlson?

  So I think for, you know, non pilot civilians like me, the expectation is that all your pilots either come from the military or Embry-Riddle, or school-like.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  School-like, sure.

• 26:36Tucker Carlson?

  Or school-like, Embry-Riddle being the most famous.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  My alma mater.

• 26:40Tucker Carlson?

  Your alma mater. But that they're all kind of like aviation nuts, and they like bug their dad for lessons at the local airport.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Wash the airplane for lessons.

• 26:49Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. And that they have a lot of experience in Cessnas. And that that's really relevant, because the basics of aviation are just so obvious in a little plane, right? Do you ever get pilots who don't have that experience?

• 27:05Speaker 02

  No, most have that experience, or at least come up through the civilian world. Military is getting harder to find, right? We're not, the military is shorthanded as it is, people aren't leaving, you know, we haven't had a war recently. So they're not leaving the military, they've all left the military, right? Because of the policies. And they're here already. There's no one in the pipeline. And so that's the problem. It's who's out there? You know, and so people that weren't necessarily the creme de la crème, now we're stuck with what's left. And it's, we're trying to fill seats. I will say,

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Well, the economic demise of something like a Spirit is a bad thing for those people. We're now starting to get them coming to the big airlines. And so that's good for the passengers. It's good for them. They do have experience, but, but that rapid desire to grow, um, post pandemic. We, my airline went from 10,000 pilots to as of last week, 18,000 in two and a half, three years.

• 28:08Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  That changes.

• 28:10Tucker Carlson?

  Where'd those new pilots come from?

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Everywhere.

• 28:13Tucker Carlson?

  The internet?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Mostly Microsoft Flight Simulator. No, mostly the, you know, the regionals. Um, they, we'd already drained the military, so they're coming up as fast as they can. And they, out of college, restricted ATP at 1,250 hours, flight of 1,500, interview and right in the door, right in the right seat of a 7557. And two years later, you're a captain. And you're talking about 26, 25?

• 28:41Tucker Carlson?

  Oof.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  So that, that, that slowed down judgment isn't there either. The hardest thing I have to do at work, Tucker, is explain to my new first officers that when you see on your, your, your papers that the van leaves at eight o'clock, that's go, not show. Don't show up and then pay your credit card bill and all these things. They're young. I don't want to generalizize this and say that whole entire, cause my son's of that generation and he's responsible. They're just irresponsible, want to do it their own way.

• 29:15Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  They're just green at life, not just at piloting. They're green at life. They haven't dealt with responsibilities and things and, you know, they don't want to fly. They call fatigued a half hour before the flight. And it's like, dude, you had better be where you need to be. That's what they pay us for. Right?

• 29:34Tucker Carlson?

  You've had people crap out a half an hour before?

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Saturday night in Newark and I was a passenger. Yeah.

• 29:40Tucker Carlson?

  No way. Like just too hungover to fly?

• 29:44Speaker 02

  No, he'd flown, he'd flown from one airport into Newark. He started at nine o'clock at night, flew a 30 minute flight. They were going to reassign him to cover the, the late flight. And he just said, no, I'm fatigued.

• 29:56Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, wow.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  So that becomes a problem, too. So, so all of these reasons that we need to maybe hold on to our senior pilots to mentor our junior pilots a little longer, they add up.

• 30:09Tucker Carlson?

  What, just to, to finish it up, what happened to the kid who asked you what you're looking at while you're landing?

• 30:16Speaker 02

  We talked about it. He's good. He'll be just fine. And I've talked to the training department and explained to them that we have some questions out there. So I'll see him again shortly on another trip and we'll talk about it again, but I'm sure he's.

• 30:28Tucker Carlson?

  In all these decades of flying, have you ever been afraid in a plane?

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Never.

• 30:32Tucker Carlson?

  Not one time?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Never. Don't have time to, Tucker. Instinct takes over, adrenaline takes over. If your pilot's afraid, they probably shouldn't be there.

• 30:40Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, that's right.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  In fact, everything just slows down. As fast as I go, and I am, you know, most people say, "Sir, you talk too fast," though I say, "You listen too slow." But, you know, when it comes down to the, the, the emergency, everything just stops. And that's what you want.

• 30:57Tucker Carlson?

  Have you had emergencies?

• 30:58Speaker 02

  I've been blessed, no. My husband, however, has a black cloud over his head.

• 31:02Tucker Carlson?

  Really? What happened to him?

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 31:04Tucker Carlson?

  I'm looking at him on the corner of my eye right now. He looks very calm, I must say.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  1998, on St. Patty's Day, yesterday was the anniversary of his almost near death. It was near midair at Newark. Let's see, is that a rapid decompression, an explosive decompression, a full hydraulic system failure? And he took one of my flights, because we were on the same airplane at the time, and he flew to Santiago, Chile, and he had a complete standby power system failure, which is something that should have never happened in a Boeing 767.

• 31:35Tucker Carlson?

  So what, what, what does that mean?

• 31:37Speaker 02

  It means they armed the autopilot for the approach, an explosion came out of the dash, everything goes crazy. The first officer flies, they have no auto brakes, they have no speed brakes, they have no number one radio, everything is gone. And he landed the airplane and stuck his big cowboy boots on those brakes, it slid the airplane a little sideways, blew.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Six trucks, I think, melted the wheels to the runway or to the taxiway and they shot him with water for like two hours and he called me up and he goes, "You owe me." And I went, "Don't wake me up for another hour, bye." I had no idea what had happened. He was on the news. It was crazy.

• 32:21Tucker Carlson?

  What was the cause of it? Has anyone figured it out?

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Some sort of electrical short out in the system.

• 32:27Tucker Carlson?

  Do you ever worry about fire while you're flying?

• 32:29Speaker 02

  That's my biggest fear.

• 32:30Tucker Carlson?

  Me too.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Fire is the one thing you don't want to deal with.

• 32:33Tucker Carlson?

  Does that ever happen?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Haven't seen it in a while. You know, what was it, Air Transat? Or was it Swissair? Up in the North Atlantic going in, they diverted into Gander, one of them, and they didn't quite make it.

• 32:49Tucker Carlson?

  Because of fire?

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Fire. We take lithium batteries very seriously, right? Because we have containment bags if your laptop lithium starts to go because, you know, that's kind of an uncontrollable fire. We want to get that out. So, you know, again, everything that happens, happens in blood and we change the rules.

• 33:08Tucker Carlson?

  What are the rules now on lithium batteries?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Boy, you, I'm not familiar. It comes with the Dangerous Goods Report, but you know, you can have whatever you have on the plane, but if you check something with a lithium battery and you don't disclose it, it's a big deal. Because, you know, all of that, as long as we know about it, they package them properly, like a wheelchair or something like that, but they just want you to disclose it.

• 33:31Tucker Carlson?

  Is there any way for them to know if you don't disclose it?

• 33:34Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 33:35Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't think there's a sensor.

• 33:38Tucker Carlson?

  So that's your number one fear?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, fire is it. But, you know, I also worry about the mental health of the person flying next to me.

• 33:47Tucker Carlson?

  There have been a lot of pilot suicides.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Well.

• 33:50Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, relatively speaking, Turkish Air.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:53Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe Malaysian Air.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, you had German Wings. That was a big one. And that was in 2016 and the pilot, you know, captain left the flight deck and the first officer punched a hole in the Alps and took everybody with him. And that's a bad thing, but the worst thing now, or the fear of mine is as we're moving through this whole, Kathy says she's a man, a woman, but she's really not, CFA certification process and I'm concerned.

• 34:21Tucker Carlson?

  Aren't you by definition unstable if you castrate yourself?

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Well, we can go back and see what the FAA says about it.

• 34:27Tucker Carlson?

  No, I mean, I'm not being mean. I feel deep. Sympathy, I feel sad to that level of hurting yourself is like, is a tragedy.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  It's a tragedy, right?

• 34:38Tucker Carlson?

  And you're the victim of that evil. However, that seems like prima facie, like, I don't want to use the word crazy because I don't want to be mean, but that you're not a stable person if you're cutting your genitals off, right?

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Or taking gender-affirming hormones.

• 34:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, like, it all seems like the clearest possible sign of mental instability. Like, what could be clearer than that?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  But you have to look at the FAA certification process and how we got here. I still question how those people with the new executive orders that says, you know, birth gender has to be on your medical certificate, it has to be on your pilot's license. I don't know if that's been done yet, but I question how these people got certified to begin with. So we go back and we do a little history. 2012, some lobbying. Ah, they lighten the requirements for psychological testing if you're transgender from massive amounts of reports down to one or two.

• 35:30Tucker Carlson?

  Seriously?

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, down to two.

• 35:32Tucker Carlson?

  Lobbying, do you know who lobbied for that?

• 35:34Speaker 02

  There is a particular female pilot, or, excuse me, transgender pilot who was able to get some folks in Congress. But it gets worse. In 16, when the federal air surgeon, Dr. Michael Berry, was distracted about pilot mental health, dealing with the outcome of the German wings, the several transgender organizations and another pilot really pushed. And they got Barney Frank and Congressman out of California to take up their, their charge. And the way they did it was pretty brilliant. The Diagnosis and Statistics Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, the DSM,

• 36:16Speaker 02

  had changed from revision four to five, the definition from gender dysphoric disorder to gender dysphoria. Now, they did it for a reason. They wanted to take the stigma off for the poor transgender people, right? But they couldn't fully pull it out because then there wouldn't be a diagnosis code, and they could not then... Use their insurance to cover their surgeries or their home role replacements. There's articles all over the internet about it, right?

• 36:43Tucker Carlson?

  That's fascinating.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  They were playing the game because the American Psychiatric Association, of course, supports all that. So.

• 36:49Tucker Carlson?

  They're absurd. I mean, and I mean this with the full pejorative connotations. They're crazy, actually. The psychiatrists are nuts.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. The inmates are running the asylum. So, so they did this move on, and Barry was kind of looking one way, or maybe he was on on it, but this was under the Obama administration. So we're just starting to see this push, right? And so the FAA changed the rules. And they said, well, you've got to have a little bit of testing. But if you're five years transitioned or five years on hormones, you can just go back to your regular aviation medical examiner and just get your six month check. No special issuance required. Wait a second. At the time that was going on, there were studies out there that showed exactly what you indicated. In fact, the statistics from the National

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Transgender or something, their own statistics, they had, they had surveyed over 27,000 of their members. And I believe it was 39% said they had suffered serious mental health issues in the month prior to the survey. 40% said they had attempted suicide in their lifetime and 7% in the month prior to the survey. That data was available.

• 38:02Tucker Carlson?

  7%?

• 38:03Speaker 02

  7%.

• 38:04Tucker Carlson?

  I shouldn't laugh. It's tragic. But 7% tried to kill themselves in the last month?

• 38:08Speaker 02

  In the last month of 27,000 people. Do the math. I mean, somewhere in there, there's got to be an airline pilot applicant, right? So why did the federal air surgeon not like, look at some of the data that was available?

• 38:22Tucker Carlson?

  You don't want suicidal people flying commercial airplanes.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  I don't want suicidal people flying airplanes. But even more importantly, studies have been done since then that are even worse. Now we look at the medical side of it and hormone replacement therapy.

• 38:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Right? Do you know what it, the number one thing the FAA Aero Medical Department is pilot incapacitation, right? That's heart attacks, that's deep vein thrombosis, it's strokes. Everything that we go through as pilots, aside from our ability to hear and see, is to ensure that we will not become incapacitated in our seat, right? I'm not going to fall over because I have diabetes or something like that. So I think it was 2020 and it was updated in 23. They conducted a study of males transitioning to females on hormone replacement therapy. Now, they're not just pilots, just in general. 80 to 90% increase for DVT, heart attack and stroke.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  FAA is a risk averse agency.

• 39:23Tucker Carlson?

  Seriously?

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Seriously.

• 39:24Tucker Carlson?

  There were, there were physical threats, not just like a person becomes suicidal, but the person-

• 39:30Speaker 02

  That's one, that's a big one. That scares me the most, but-

• 39:32Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  If the FAA is a risk averse-

• 39:35Tucker Carlson?

  But cardiovascular effects.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:37Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't know that.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  If you're a risk averse agency and you won't even consider a drug I might be taking because it might possibly indicate that I might have a heart attack?

• 39:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Why are you allowing these people who have an 80 to 90% increased chance for that to be in an airplane because they're taking hormone replacement therapy?

• 39:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's so wrong to do that to, to the public.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  But there's no research arm that I fund at FAA because they're enjoying their coffee in their green desk. Nobody's reading peer reviewed studies. Nobody's looking at this going, you know, we might want to walk that back. I didn't. And that's scary.

• 40:16Tucker Carlson?

  So what drugs are you not allowed to take as a commercial airline pilot? There's a bunch of them, right?

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know what? They don't publish the list. So you don't even know. Only your aviation medical examiner knows.

• 40:28Tucker Carlson?

  But you could, but I, I know from knowing-

• 40:30Speaker 02

  There's many that you can't take.

• 40:32Tucker Carlson?

  Many. So like you probably think about, you think about your health, you think about the drugs that you take because of your-

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I don't take anything.

• 40:38Tucker Carlson?

  I don't.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  I'm, I, you know, I use holistic stuff for colds and things.

• 40:42Tucker Carlson?

  Good for you. Um, I'm with you a hundred percent, but, but you could take like radical doses of male hormones and that would be cool.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Well, you have to disclose it.

• 40:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  On your medical, but it appears after five years of taking radical doses, they don't make you, I mean, they do disclose it, but they don't really care. If you can go five, that was the, the key of the 2016 change. If you can go five years, welcome to the club. It's like, so you have to report it, you know, and you have to have exams for that. But, but even then, all of that was just about their mental health. Nobody is considering what these hormones do long-term. But it's even more criminal. That's just a transgender issue. FA air medical. When it comes to the COVID vax? The FDA approved committory at what? Six o'clock at night on December 18th?

• 41:35Speaker 02

  The next morning, same federal air surgeon approves it for worldwide use in airline pilots.

• 41:40Tucker Carlson?

  Who is the federal air surgeon?

• 41:41Speaker 02

  At that time, it was Dr. Michael Berry. He retired a week later and went to work for a pilot insurance company. But the criminal actions happening in-

• 41:49Tucker Carlson?

  That sounds like a crime. I mean, is he supposed to assess its effects on the millions of Americans who fly?

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Well, at least take a look at, maybe do a longitudinal study on the transgender issue. But when it comes to the COVID situation, the effects of altitude, pressurization, and we work in a very dry humidity. We don't, this is an EUA product. It's never had an EUA product ever, ever certified for use in pilots. And he'd written many articles on the drug certification part.

• 42:21Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just ask, cause I'm interested, like, what are the effects on your health as a pilot of spending 35 years in a cockpit? Cause it is a weird-

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Lot of wrinkles. It's dry, right?

• 42:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  It's dry, so hydration, cosmic radiation. I've had skin cancer.

• 42:39Tucker Carlson?

  Coming through the-

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Well, it's cosmic radiation is when you fly above the tropopause or up in that area, right? So there's, there's radiation all the time. It's not just when the sun's shining, right? It's exactly what the astronauts suffer up on the space station. You know, it's, it's radiation that's up there. So a lot of your pilots, high levels of prostate cancer among male pilots, breast cancer among female pilots, through the roof.

• 43:04Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. You know, we're not in a shielded environment. The higher you fly, the stronger it is. So when we look at those sorts of things, yeah. Take care of yourself, folks, but we don't know what those drugs were doing to people. And we don't know pressurization, humidity and altitude effects on them.

• 43:25Tucker Carlson?

  Only three things are absolutely certain in this life, and you know two of them. First is death, second is taxes, and the third unfortunately is getting ripped off by your cell phone company. If you're a Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile customer, you know exactly what we're talking about. But there is an option. You could save a ton every month by switching to the service that we use. It's called Pure Talk. Pure Talk is an earnest friend of the show, and they are the answer. If you become a customer of Pure Talk, you get unlimited text, talk, and five gigs of data, which is enough for most people, on the country's most dependable 5G network. And here's the punchline, it costs $25 a month. So the average family, if we did the math, saves over $1,000 a year when they switch to Pure Talk.

• 44:09Tucker Carlson?

  $1,000 a year. Plus, it's a great service. Their customer service team is based in the United States. You can switch hassle-free in as little as 10 minutes. You even get to keep your phone and your phone number. To find out more, go to puretalk.com/tucker to make a switch, and you'll save an additional 50% off your very first month. Pure Talk, wireless by Americans, for Americans.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 45:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 45:06Speaker 05

  You need NyQuil Intense Flu. Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching...

• 45:11Tucker Carlson?

  Fever, best sleep with a flu medicine. You do got this. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children. Yeah, cuz it is, it's a totally different environment from the one the rest of us live in day to day. So, explain what happened with COVID. So COVID, so just if you don't mind telling that story cuz I think it's interesting.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Um, from, from the mandate perspective?

• 45:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, from a mandate perspective.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:31Tucker Carlson?

  Not from the Wuhan lab.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 45:34Tucker Carlson?

  Fauci funded.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  No, well, I mean, it's interesting, Tucker, because I really never thought I'd ever get into any of this fight. I'm just a mom. I'm cruising along through life and, and, uh, New Year's Eve of 2018, I looked in the rear view mirror and the lights were going off and I pulled over. I got busted for DUI.

• 45:51Tucker Carlson?

  Ooh.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Greatest thing that ever happened to me. And God, I questioned him and my darling husband said, he never gives you more than you can handle, Sherry. And I didn't know at the time, but he was preparing me for the fight of my life. I had to fight to get my job back. The FAA wasn't, was straightforward. Because of my former union work, I believe, you know, maybe it was a little more difficult than normal at my airline. But I succeeded and I got all my back pay and everything I needed, but it taught me how to navigate against a corporate conglomerate. So I'm back to work and on August 6th, the CEO of my airline announces that there will

• 46:34Speaker 02

  be a vaccine mandate or you'll be fired in a month. And I'm sorry.

• 46:39Tucker Carlson?

  2021.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  2021, August, August 6th. Craziest day of my life. Called my best friend, she's also a captain and, um, she's known around the airline, is kind of the mom type and she's had a vaccine injured family member. So, so Laura Cox and myself, along with the wife of one of the pilots, who's an attorney, Danielle, um, the three of us got our heads together and we said, how are we going to?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Get through this because I'm not going to violate my faith and take a product that derived from aborted fetal tissue cells, et cetera, et cetera. And that was my-

• 47:15Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's just a conspiracy theory. That's not true.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Shall I throw the glass of water now?

• 47:21Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, no. It's just so funny. It's like, for that whole period, I tried to think about COVID and that whole chapter in our country's history and in my life, but you would hear people say, "Well, I'm getting a religious exemption," and then no one ever asked why.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:35Tucker Carlson?

  And if you asked why, they'd be like, "Well, there's some connection between the vaccines, the COVID vaccines and abortion." And then you'd hear someone in the background say, "That's a lie!" And then just sort of move on and no one ever talked about it. But those vaccines were derived from aborted babies.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Aborted fetal tissue cells were used in either the development or the manufacture of all three of the US-approved drugs.

• 47:57Tucker Carlson?

  So I think, I haven't checked because I'm trying to read Wikipedia because it's just CIA-controlled lies, but, which it is, but I bet you to this day they deny that, but that's just a fact.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  It's a fact. It's a fact. Ask the Secretary of Health and Human Services, he'll tell you the facts.

• 48:12Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  So-

• 48:15Tucker Carlson?

  So that was a no-go for you right there?

• 48:16Speaker 02

  That was a no-go for me. It was a no-go for my husband. It was also a no-go for Laura. And about eight thou- well, at the beginning, there's probably 20,000 people that united, it was no-go. And so, as it progressed, 8,000, the pressure got put on us. They sent postcards to our house, so that in our case, we're married, didn't matter. But they would send a postcard to your house and it would say, "You know, you only have 22 days left to get the vaccine or be terminated." Well, the wife won't open your mail, but she'll read your postcard, right? So she reads it, she goes, "Honey, we're gonna lose everything?" People would acquiesce. They told people that you would lose your 401K if you didn't believe the company or get the shot.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  I mean, the mid-level managers, you know, that are-

• 49:02Tucker Carlson?

  They said you'd lose your 401K?

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a recording of a pilot being told that.

• 49:08Tucker Carlson?

  You can't have your retirement.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  You can't have your own money. All right. It gets better, but the, these pressure was just intense, right? And so people would fall off and, and the, the whole reasonable accommodation process was onerous and, and corrupt in itself. And there's thousands of pages of discovery documents on our, our organization's website. So if anybody wants to read about, uh, but they wanted to put like scarlet letters on our ID badges for the unvaccinated. So the other people would point and pick on us. It was crazy, but the three of us got together, put our heads together. We hired the best law firm we could find, Sher Jaffe out of DC. And we filed for an injunction and we still didn't quite get

• 49:54Speaker 02

  there in November of 21. Every one of us were put on unpaid indefinite leave, basically fired.

• 50:00Tucker Carlson?

  What did they say to you?

• 50:02Speaker 02

  They didn't. They just said, you're done.

• 50:05Tucker Carlson?

  Did, and how long had you worked at the airline at that point?

• 50:07Speaker 02

  I got hired in 1998. It was 2021.

• 50:11Tucker Carlson?

  That's crazy town. So you spent your, like, most of your adult life there?

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 50:16Tucker Carlson?

  Never had a problem? No?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Well, I was a union rep. I've had my share, but fights with fights. But yeah, in general, no, I've never had an accident. Oh gosh, no, never failed a check ride. Never have done anything like that, you know?

• 50:28Tucker Carlson?

  And they just can you without?

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Sayonara. See ya.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  But we kept moving.

• 50:37Tucker Carlson?

  I want to attack your CEO. I don't want, I used to work there. So I don't want to make your life even harder.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  We all know there were three airlines that mandated the vaccine Hawaiian, Coletta Air Cargo and United. So

• 50:48Tucker Carlson?

  That's it?

• 50:48Speaker 02

  That was it. The rest were mandated eventually because nobody would follow along, right? They, they, they knew better.

• 50:54Tucker Carlson?

  United was the only domestic?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Well, Hawaiian's domestic technically.

• 50:58Tucker Carlson?

  Not red. Let's be honest.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Contiguous United States.

• 51:03Tucker Carlson?

  Continental United States, you know, the big carriers.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:05Tucker Carlson?

  Delta, American.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 51:09Tucker Carlson?

  Only United.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  When, and nobody followed, then the president, Joe Biden, um, instituted the OSHA mandate, right? For contract, if you have more than a hundred employees, you have to mandate this, or the government contractor mandate. If you do work and everybody flies the mail, right? 4.6 billion dollar business every year to the airlines and flying the US mail. So it was a contract. You had to mandate it, but. The guys at SW Freedom Flyers in North me up in Dallas, they, you know, they did a little pushback, the American boys, the Delta folks. And so the exemption process for them was just kind of a paper mill. Their bosses were cool about it. There was like, whatever. And eventually, both those mandates were overturned in court. But

• 51:56Tucker Carlson?

  That was the way to play it, by the way.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, be kind to your employees.

• 51:59Tucker Carlson?

  A hundred percent. Firing longtime employees because they don't want a vaccine? I mean, it's like so cruel.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it played into a marketing campaign.

• 52:10Tucker Carlson?

  Who did that? Who made that decision?

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Well, it was made by the CEO. I mean, it's in the court testimony. And the judge ruled that it was a pretextual situation whereby there was a marketing campaign at the bottom line. So there was a desire for that CEO to be able to come out publicly and say, in my opinion at least, that they were the first fully vaccinated airline. If they could do it by the holidays of December, maybe people would come back.

• 52:37Tucker Carlson?

  Who'd want to fly on the first fully vaccinated airline? I don't, yeah, I don't want to fly in an airline with vaccinated pilots because it's dangerous. So that's, that's my view. But I guess a lot of people disagree. So this was

• 52:48Speaker 02

  To his credit, his argument has always been, it's been about safety. Safety for my employees. Look, I'm an adult. I can make my own medical decisions. So I don't need my CEO deciding my safety situation. But that was his argument. I want to just get that on the record.

• 53:02Tucker Carlson?

  Because if you get the experimental COVID vax, you can't get or transmit COVID. Like, we know that, right? Did that turn out to be true?

• 53:08Speaker 02

  I've never had COVID.

• 53:09Tucker Carlson?

  Does this CEO, you don't have to name him if you don't want, but is he still running the airline?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 53:14Tucker Carlson?

  It doesn't have a board, I guess, the company?

• 53:17Speaker 02

  I'm sorry?

• 53:17Tucker Carlson?

  There's no board?

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, a board of directors. But, you know.

• 53:21Tucker Carlson?

  This is all so crazy. No one's

• 53:23Speaker 02

  But everybody after the pandemic, remember, after this went away, and then we got, we went in court and we get called back, oh, we're on to the next big thing, which is, you know. Pilots, male pilots, or excuse me, male flight attendants with beards wearing lipstick, or whatever the issue of the day is. So, you know, that's, that's over. That's over.

• 53:41Tucker Carlson?

  So what, I keep stepping on your story. Tell me, okay, so this comes down, you go to court, try to get an injunction.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  We don't get the injunction.

• 53:50Tucker Carlson?

  You don't get it, and then you're laid off.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  We're out.

• 53:54Tucker Carlson?

  Bam. Your husband too?

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Everybody.

• 53:57Tucker Carlson?

  No, but in your case, you're married.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  In my house too. Yes, two of us. And my son, God bless him, you know, he was going to school and dealing with two pilots being home, which is unusual for him. But, you know, we made it through.

• 54:08Tucker Carlson?

  So your whole family's unemployed in one day because of this?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Instantly overnight.

• 54:12Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's kind of heavy, actually. How did you, I mean?

• 54:14Speaker 02

  It was very heavy. You know what happened? 2,000 people came together. Rampers, mechanics, flight attendants, pilots. We became a family overnight. I mean, over the last three years, I consider them my dearest, most wonderful friends, and I want to say thank you to every one of them for the support.

• 54:32Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, what a blessing.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Because, I mean, to me, servant leadership, it's the real deal.

• 54:36Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  I, I led them. They blessed me to the ability to lead them, right? With my son, with my friend Laura and Danielle. You know, these people are incredible, but we've been to births together, we've been through marriages, we've been through deaths, and I will tell you, those 2,000 people are more important to me than anything in this world.

• 54:55Tucker Carlson?

  I love them.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  And, and they're there for each other. We had battle buddies. Somebody was feeling bad, you'd call a friend. We kept chat groups, and, and most of the time, they're pretty prayerful. We've debated books of the Bible. I mean, we are just like this.

• 55:09Tucker Carlson?

  It's amazing. So how many, so it was 2,000 people in the end got fired?

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 55:14Tucker Carlson?

  And that was down from the initial number of people who said, I'm not taking it?

• 55:18Speaker 02

  Eh, 20,000, down to 8,000, down to this, you know?

• 55:22Tucker Carlson?

  And, but in the end, it was 2,000 people who stood strong.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Plus or minus, you had 2,000.

• 55:27Tucker Carlson?

  Did anyone fake getting a vaccine?

• 55:29Speaker 02

  I have no knowledge of that. I know a lot of people who have, in my community, not, not at my, my company, uh, my husband's PA says, you know, her mom and dad walked in and they, uh, that somebody said it on the counter, and there's the trash when you're done. I mean, you know, we have doctor friends that are saying this, so.

• 55:46Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, and everyone had faked, I had a fake vax card proudly, and I would do it again. The next time there's tyranny, I'm not obeying.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Except for there's only one way to get fired from my airline, is to lie. Other than that, you can go on.

• 55:56Tucker Carlson?

  You're right.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  So I'm not gonna do it.

• 55:57Tucker Carlson?

  Well, but you also make it, but it's also wrong to lie. And I lied in using a fake fax card.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  Nah, it's okay.

• 56:03Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  You were able to live your life and good for you.

• 56:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but no, you're right. That's a moral compromise and I, and I probably should have done that. I don't know. Trying to think about it too much. But um, no, but you're, I think you're taking a really principled position in saying, I'm gonna say clearly what I believe. I don't think I should be punished for it. When I am punished for it, I'm gonna take my lumps and fight back. So I admire what you did.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, we went through the EEOC process and then on through the courts. And right now we sit in the Fifth Circuit on appeals.

• 56:30Tucker Carlson?

  So, um, and I couldn't be rooting for you more fervently, but.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 56:35Tucker Carlson?

  So what, okay, so what happened then? So 2,000 are fired with no support, like they're not.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  No, in fact,

• 56:44Speaker 02

  you should have been able to tap your 401K in an emergency situation, right? They locked us out.

• 56:51Tucker Carlson?

  What? Like you're a criminal?

• 56:54Speaker 02

  I could not, I could not access my 401K. They said, well, you can apply for another job in the company. I'm 57 years old. I'm gonna go throw bags. Well, okay, if you wanna pay me my salary. Oh, no, no, you're gonna do it for baggage rate. I'm gonna have to drive to the airport every day and go throw bags.

• 57:08Tucker Carlson?

  CEO sounds like a pig, actually. Sorry, that's my view. You're not saying that.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  You're welcome to.

• 57:12Tucker Carlson?

  Right, that's my opinion. I just wanna be clear, but he sounds like a pig.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  If you know Michael Berry in Houston, he has some, he's a radio man and he's.

• 57:20Tucker Carlson?

  He just sounds like an awful man. Um, and I hope he's punished. He will be. Anyway, so, uh.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  But we get called back because we won in the Fifth Circuit.

• 57:29Tucker Carlson?

  And how long was that?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  It was, hmm, I think it was around February 17th that, uh, so we were out November, December, January, four months.

• 57:37Tucker Carlson?

  Did you get into money trouble?

• 57:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 57:40Tucker Carlson?

  You got no income coming in?

• 57:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, you know, we're old enough to have had some savings.

• 57:45Tucker Carlson?

  You have savings, right. But you're, you're burning reserves for the whole.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are burning reserves. I mean, but you know, we don't live a grandiose lifestyle. So, you know, cars were paid for and things like that. And, you know, we were able to be.

• 57:56Tucker Carlson?

  But there had to be people.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  Oh, there were people that were selling everything. Laura, her husband sold his dream, which is a small fishing boat. I mean, it was not like a, anything big, but that was his dream. They needed to pay their bills. You know, people were selling everything and some were taking other jobs.

• 58:12Tucker Carlson?

  You're making me emotional.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Mental health side of it was, was scary. You don't understand the number of people Brett or myself talked of suicide. And it was tough, but we made it.

• 58:20Tucker Carlson?

  So of those 2,000, can you just roughly break it down, what they did? How many pilots?

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Uh, 360 plus or minus pilots. Okay, there's about seven, uh, let's see, so that's 350. There was about 50 to 100, uh, what we call agents, you know, ticket agents. And the balance would have been flight attendants. Um, the mechanics, the, uh, stores people, the, um, majority of the agents that worked in larger cities, um, avionics technicians, management, they were able to work with a masking and testing regime. But it was punitive. It wasn't masking. It was N95 respirators from the moment you pulled on property to the moment you left. You ate outside, didn't matter if it was snowing, raining cold. You put it back between every bite and sip.

• 59:07Tucker Carlson?

  Wearing a yellow star the whole time?

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Uh, that mask was the yellow star. And then you had to be tested on a rolling every seven days. And it didn't matter if you were out on family medical leave, if you got hurt at work or were on vacation. You missed one test, you were terminated.

• 59:23Tucker Carlson?

  And this is the one where they stick the stuff up your nose?

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's a whole nother issue.

• 59:27Tucker Carlson?

  I never did that.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  I would never do it.

• 59:28Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  So, so it was all punitive and it was all punishment. But they justified it in that those people didn't work onboard the airplane. So for safety reasons, they were away from.

• 59:38Tucker Carlson?

  Of those 2,000, of course, you can't really know. But what's your sense of the percentage of Christians among?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Well, in our organization, I know I have seven Jewish members.

• 59:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  I have a handful.

• 59:49Tucker Carlson?

  Religious?

• 59:50Speaker 02

  Very much so.

• 59:52Tucker Carlson?

  The, the, the seven Jewish people are religious people?

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, very much religious, very faithful.

• 59:57Tucker Carlson?

  Good for them.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Um, one is actually, uh, fighting a battle to, uh, get a, an accommodation for wearing a very tight beard. So, uh, we have, we have those seven or so. We have, um, at least one or two, um, Muslims that I know of. Uh, one of our lead plaintiffs was a Buddhist. The majority of Christians.

• 1:00:17Tucker Carlson?

  But I mean observant, like.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Oh, every one of these people are observant.

• 1:00:21Tucker Carlson?

  So all 2,000 were religious people?

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Very, well, I take that back. We had a handful of people who were very observant, but that had a medical issue and their doctor told them, don't get it. And so they applied for a medical accommodation backed up with a religious because of their faith. But I would say 99.9% are heavily.

• 1:00:39Tucker Carlson?

  So what you're saying is that when you bring down a vaccine mandate like this, like, hey, let me inject you with some aborted baby cells.

• 1:00:48Tucker Carlson?

  You really are getting rid of the religious people.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Tucker Carlson?

  Cause I mean, this was done at a national scale. So I think it's fair to, you know, if the outcome is the point of the exercise, it seems like they drove religious people out of government service. That's what it looks like to me. The military, the airlines kind of crypto since you fly the mail, but you're, it's not really government, but.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  But yes, you know, anywhere where there's.

• 1:01:14Tucker Carlson?

  But they're punishing religious people.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  Anywhere there's a large group, you know, of employees, places, yes, I would agree. They're, they're, but it's also religious people also happen to believe in the constitution. They also happen to be free thinkers.

• 1:01:28Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I've noticed.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  And, you know, I think there's even more insidious things than, they were after the religious people. Sure. But they were also after anybody who would not stand, would comply. Right? I think to them it was a test to see how they could trample people's rights. But that's my personal.

• 1:01:44Tucker Carlson?

  Absolutely no question about it.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  That's my personal belief.

• 1:01:46Tucker Carlson?

  But I do think we've spent too little time celebrating the people who are willing to really have their lives reordered, willing to be punished and suffer for what they believed. Like those people are heroes, I think.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  I know 2,000 heroes.

• 1:02:02Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's my totally, they're not, yeah. So, um, so then what happens? You go back to work.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  And we're, well, we're invited back to work eventually because of the court ruling. But then we're told, but you can't fly anywhere. You have to be careful.

• 1:02:17Tucker Carlson?

  You can't fly anywhere?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  They wouldn't let us. We had restricted cities, right? Because. Countries might require a vaccine. Well, of those restricted cities, there weren't any countries that wouldn't let pilots in. But it was a big battle. We had to, we had to fight through this until Canada dropped the mandate for passengers. And so there were just things that were done, the constant retaliation pieces, getting called in the office because of a Facebook avatar, or just dumb things.

• 1:02:48Tucker Carlson?

  Called into the office because of a Facebook avatar?

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:51Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean?

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  So Laura and I had changed our Facebook, you know, symbol to the star of David. It said unvaxxed on it. Right? Because we felt like we were being abused, you know? I didn't want to make any light of previous situations, but you know, it was out there. And some pilot who disagreed with us anonymously reported us to the corporation. And we had to go to the office and do the carpet dance and explain why that wasn't discrimination, but-

• 1:03:19Tucker Carlson?

  Why would it be discrimination?

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Because we offended the Jewish people because we, we co-opted their, their, their star. So my first thing I did is call my seven Jewish members and say, does this offend you? They're like, no, we stand with you. Okay, fine.

• 1:03:33Tucker Carlson?

  But it wouldn't, I mean, it's not mocking Jews, isn't it? Standing in solidarity with anyone who's been singled out and oppressed?

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly.

• 1:03:43Tucker Carlson?

  So it was like about as positive an identification as you could have?

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. But it was one more reason. Four times, five times in one year, I had to go sit in there and explain myself. It just goes on. I got one coming up.

• 1:03:57Tucker Carlson?

  What is that? What'd you do wrong this time?

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  This time, two years ago, I was trying to be kind to a very famous elderly person. We were going to do an engine run and I couldn't leave them on the jetway with the engines running and doors open. And so we got the person up to the top. And unfortunately, then she wrote a nasty letter. So I have to go do the carpet dance and explain why you can't sit unattended in a jetway with the door open and the engine running and mechanic with an arm in an engine. So we'll get through it. It's just constant.

• 1:04:28Tucker Carlson?

  One of the greatest changes of the past six months is you can finally say loud and proud without the threat of going to jail for it that you're for babies. You're for the unborn. And that's great news for Preborn, our partner, which operates a clinic network across the United States. Preborn is the single greatest threat to the abortion industry. It's rescued over 67,000 babies last year alone.

• 1:04:52Tucker Carlson?

  These abortions still claim thousands of lives every year. It's one of the great tragedies unspoken most of the time. It's not a right, it is a tragedy. So the goal is to rescue all of these babies. They need your help to do that. Assisting and providing ultrasounds is a great place to start. More knowledge, more information for expecting mothers. It really makes a huge difference. Once a mother realizes that the lump in her belly is a baby, is a child, she becomes twice as likely to choose life, to let that child live. One ultrasound costs only 28 bucks, meaning that five are just $140. So $5,000 is good for enough devices to cover Preborn's entire network for a full day. It really, really helps. We hope you'll join this cause.

• 1:05:37Tucker Carlson?

  Dial pound 250, say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, the word baby. Or you can visit preborn.com/tucker to make a secure donation. Preborn.com/tucker.

• 1:05:48Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:06:17Speaker 05

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• 1:06:22Speaker 06

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• 1:06:37Speaker 05

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• 1:06:47Tucker Carlson?

  How did the other pilots who, like obedience sheep, took the needle? How did they treat you?

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  I've never had anyone come up and say, you guys are causing a problem. Now, there's keyboard warriors on certain, you know, social media sites, but at work, nine out of 10 have said, I wish I could have stood with you.

• 1:07:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  I'm sick, my friend is sick, or something. I will never do it again, ever, ever, ever. And I'm sorry I didn't stand with you.

• 1:07:19Tucker Carlson?

  Those poor people, I know a million vaccinated people. I've never heard anybody say, I'm glad I got the vax, not a single one.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:25Tucker Carlson?

  And I feel so sad for a lot of them I love. So I feel so sad for them. I'm sorry to make fun of them. I shouldn't. They were the victims too.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  They're victims too. Some are just stronger than others.

• 1:07:33Tucker Carlson?

  But the COVID vax has turned out to be so dangerous. It killed so many people. It's a fact. I mean, it's in the Fager's program. These are not conspiracy theories. It's like, that's a fact, that it does make you wonder, like, what would you want? I don't want to fly in a plane with vaccinated pilots because I think it's too dangerous. But are there numbers on this?

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:52Tucker Carlson?

  So tell me what they are.

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  So I had a lot of free time there while I was off of work and I'd been working on my doctoral dissertation. And when this started to go down, I shifted gears. So my organization, Airline Employees for Health Freedom, we started getting phone calls. I know somebody that's sick, or I know this, or I know that. So we just put a data collection link up and it got so intense that I said, you know what? I'm going to stop everything. I'm going to write my dissertation and I'm going to study the vaccine injury amongst commercial airline pilots. And so, um, almost about seven months of data collection, 1,600 plus respondents across the industry. And understand the population is about 80, 20 vaxxed, right?

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  My study actually came out about 50, 50, because a whole bunch of my unvaccinated friends wanted to help, which watered down my numbers, but it actually makes them that much more powerful. Because at 50, 50, if I found this, what would I have found at 80, 20? And what I found is, Commercial airline pilots in the United States are suffering pericarditis and myocarditis at rates exceeding the CDC's national average. And I proved it to a 98%, plus or minus four in that regards.

• 1:09:03Tucker Carlson?

  What are the implications for myocarditis in an airline pilot?

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  It goes back to that incapacitation thing, right? Pilot's gotta have a healthy heart. But what it really means, for the short term, we're losing pilots. It's anecdotal, it's in my dissertation, but I have the charts from American Southwest and from the Union at United. The disability rates post-December of 21 shoot through the ceiling. Right? They're off the charts and they're getting worse by the day. So pilots are going on long-term disability. It's one more way to get rid of those high-dollar workers, I guess. I don't know. And we just, that way we have to have more young people come in. And so, where it goes, I don't know.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  But I found things from kidney stones to serious, you know, mental, excuse me, neurological problems, cardiac, it's really scary and nobody wants to know about it. And the problem is, I went to the union and I said to the national president in an email, and I have it in my dissertation, it's published online, "I found this. We need to address this." And he says, "Oh, no, no. You know what? That's in the past. We don't, that might be disruptive to unity."

• 1:10:21Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, what is the point of unions again? I totally forgot. Is it to take care of their members?

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  I have a former rep, I've seen the sausage-making from the inside. We were quote, "A professional organization that focuses on safety." That's their number one point. Secondly, it's collective bargaining. I pay a lot of money for them to abuse me.

• 1:10:43Tucker Carlson?

  But if your job is to take care of your people, that's what a union is, right? It's we collectively bargain, we're in this together, and we're looking out for people who have not enough power, which is the workers against management. And they're not interested in people dying or being disabled for, like, I don't-

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  They weren't interested in them putting us on the street. They stepped back and said, "Company can do what they want."

• 1:11:09Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  No, it's not in the collective bargaining agreement. That is a terming condition. That is an EEOC problem between you and the airline.

• 1:11:20Tucker Carlson?

  That's disgusting. What's the name of this union?

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  The Airline Pilots Association, ALPA. And ALPA is working against helping the pilot shortage by upping the age. ALPA worked against all of us in any of the airlines. I can't say that because actually, you know, the ALPA people at Delta, they worked with at Bastian and they actually came up with a pretty good system during this mandate piece. But ours washed our hands of us.

• 1:11:52Tucker Carlson?

  Are you required to be a member of this union?

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, yes.

• 1:11:55Tucker Carlson?

  So they take your money and they do nothing for you? And they collaborate with your creepy CEO to oppress the workers there and the, and the unions like all on board with them?

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  And when it even gets better, they take my money and they have a DEI committee. It's staffed by a transgender pilot who then sends me emails explaining what my language should be.

• 1:12:18Tucker Carlson?

  I'm trying not to use the F word. This is my, this is my Lenten challenge. But it's almost sneaking out.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  So we don't-

• 1:12:28Tucker Carlson?

  The union sends you that? So your union exists to lecture and torment you and steal your money?

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  Let's just say they, we have people in the union in the legal department who are not the best and brightest. You'd obviously work at somewhere other than a union. But the rumor is I've been told that I'm the fifth rail. They don't even know the saying, it's the third rail, right? So trust me, the union and I don't get along really well, Tucker.

• 1:12:56Tucker Carlson?

  And you were a union rap?

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  I was, I was.

• 1:12:59Tucker Carlson?

  So it's not like you have some ideological problem with unions as a theory?

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  No, I, I had a desire to go in there and help people and clean up the mess that was.

• 1:13:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I mean, I speak for myself, I'm totally in favor of unions. I have a friend who's a labor leader and I, I like the idea of unions. I do, I like solidarity and someone needs to push back against power, I'm all for that. It's just that in practice, in this specific case, but also in others, it seems like they're collaborating against their members.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  Unions are, in this case, at least, I use the phrase, unions are like the tick on the dog, right? They suck from the dog, but they can't kill it because that's the way they live. So in the case of the Airline Pilots Association, they collaborate a lot with management. They get what they need. They get the do's from it. And they'll do a little bit, but they can't do too much, right? Because they need the company to stay profitable, or they'll be gone.

• 1:13:56Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. Well, that's, I mean, I don't think that's unreasonable.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  But they shouldn't be the disciplinary arm of the airline. In a lot of cases, they are.

• 1:14:06Tucker Carlson?

  Everyone hates the teachers' unions. And I, of course, I do, too. I think they've helped wreck education. However, at least in New York City, like, they stick up for their members.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:14:15Tucker Carlson?

  In a very unreasonable way, even when their members are like child molesters. They'll defend them.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:20Tucker Carlson?

  Which is bad.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Tucker Carlson?

  But the idea that you stand up for the people in your charge, that leadership means laying down your life for the people beneath you, I believe in that. And there's nothing worse than a collaborator. Well, that's really disgusting.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Wash their hands of all of us. And it didn't happen just at the Airline Pilots Association. It happened at the AFA, Association of Flight Ins, right? It happened, the Teamsters, no, it wasn't the Teamsters. The dispatch union leader was the only one that fought back against the mandates, right? All the rest of them just rolled over.

• 1:14:53Tucker Carlson?

  So what, I mean, are airline people political? And how does the, how does it break down politically?

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Airline people, okay, so we have so few of the hardcore union people, of course, that are going to lean left, right? Airline people are of the ilk of where they live, okay? Houston base is very conservative, very Texas, very red. I see in the San Francisco base, a much more liberal opinion. So I think it's, they're just people. I don't think it's, we're not in the days of fighting Lorenzo, right? So I don't think it's really a political thing with the airline people. I think they're just part of their community.

• 1:15:31Tucker Carlson?

  But there's something about aviation, because it's, I mean, science-based, it's engineering. That every airline pilot, I've known a million airline pilots and they're all, they have the same kind of logical, coolly analytical temperament and they believe in like the facts because they have to or the plane crashes.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Or newly is a fact, right? We can't change that.

• 1:15:53Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. And like a thunderstorm will pull your wings off, so don't fly into it. Like, these are just facts. We're not in control, we acknowledge them and we.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  And we're risk averse, right? So we're going to be conservative and take the most conservative way.

• 1:16:05Tucker Carlson?

  So I don't, that also.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  There still are some liberal ones out there.

• 1:16:09Tucker Carlson?

  Are there really?

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, they're usually the big union dogs, you know, the high-power ones.

• 1:16:13Tucker Carlson?

  But I can't, I can't get my head around someone whose job it is to obey the laws of physics, like unflinchingly, you know, it's like, that's a fact, we have to obey that law because it's, we can't change it. That person believing that you can change your sex, which is the most irrational thing you could say.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  And most of them are not faithful at all, too.

• 1:16:36Tucker Carlson?

  To what?

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  As well. I mean, they're not faithful as well. They're not religious people either.

• 1:16:42Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, of course not. Well, of course, right. Of course, the whole idea is to give a finger to God and proclaim yourself master of the universe. I can change my sex. Okay. Can you control the weather now too, like John Kerry? But no, it's not even that, which I do have a problem with, to be clear. It's, that's irrational. That's what freaks me out. That's irrational. So if you believe in something that irrational, I don't want you flying my airplane. No? I mean.

• 1:17:07Speaker 02

  I don't want you flying next to me in that airplane because I have to get up on a 10-hour flight and go take a break or go on to bathroom. What, how are you going to behave when I'm not here? You know? We got pilots that are asking those questions right now. They're saying, you know, I'm not comfortable leaving the flight deck.

• 1:17:24Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, come on!

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  When we're flying with somebody of that nature.

• 1:17:29Tucker Carlson?

  Can you go to the company and say,

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:17:33Tucker Carlson?

  I'm on a 10 hour flight. So you're a veteran, obviously a veteran pilot. You've got to be one of the, have some of the most hours of.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  I'm in the, the top 10%.

• 1:17:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, right. Okay. So that means traditionally you're flying the longer, better, more fun routes to the prettier capitals. Like that's what I have noticed. So, but you're flying long flights. So you have to get up at some point.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  Well, I'm required legally to go take a break. I mean, I have to go to bed for over eight hours. You have to take a nap. We rotate, we have three pilots and we rotate through.

• 1:18:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:18:06Tucker Carlson?

  But can't you call the company and say, Hey, I'm not comfortable leaving my co-pilot unattended? Like, that seems like a big thing.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  For me, it's, you know, it's anecdotal because I haven't flown with one yet. Back, except for when I was on the 737 years ago and there was a captain.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Who, by the way, was a terrible pilot.

• 1:18:28Tucker Carlson?

  A transgender captain.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  No, it's terrible pilot. It's more focused on other things.

• 1:18:32Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of things?

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  I wouldn't be funny, but making sure his voice sounded right, or, you know, there was a lot of distraction. He was just known as not a very great pilot. And so, you know, I did a lot of the flying, but that was years ago when I was really young. Former airline, um, before the merger. So, uh, but, so I haven't, in, in my world, there hasn't really been any in the, in the 767. But a lot of dear friends in, in the more junior airplane, 737 and Airbus were just like, I'm, I'm not comfortable. They don't fly the long haul, so they can usually get to where they're going.

• 1:19:10Tucker Carlson?

  They can hold it.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you. Um, but yeah, they, they just, they don't want to leave. We're not sure. It's like, what, what could happen? They've read the same studies as I have.

• 1:19:21Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  And it's not just here. It's across the industry. All right?

• 1:19:26Tucker Carlson?

  Meaning in Europe as well?

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  No, I'm meaning in domestic airlines.

• 1:19:30Tucker Carlson?

  Oh.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  It's not just my carrier. It's pilots from a lot of different carriers. Concerned.

• 1:19:38Tucker Carlson?

  That's like, and what would happen if you called up airline HQ and said, this is just too nuts. I think it's a threat to safety. What would they say to you?

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  Come into the office. Let's have another carpet dance.

• 1:19:50Tucker Carlson?

  For real?

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Now, so, so the thing is you have to observe a safety concern. You must report it as a whistleblower. Then it might get changed. But I haven't actually officially observed it. But I can understand where we're going. I mean, it might not be as dramatic as somebody not wanting to fly with somebody. But one very real piece is you can be called in the office and get in trouble for, say, misgendering somebody, using the wrong pronoun.

• 1:20:21Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  Yes. Unfortunately, I work in a safety sensitive world. I have a common safety language, right? If we're in the middle of a massive emergency at altitude and I pick up that, and I call the back and I say, hey, guys, prepare the cabin. Oh, wait a minute, was I supposed to remember was a guy or a girl or what? It's just a word I use? In the heat of battle, I don't want to have an Abbott and Costello who's on first discussion with the person at the other end of the phone. No, I mean, he, no, she's at four, door one. No, he's at door three. We have something to do and deal with. And I don't want to have to stop and think in my job before I react the way I've been trained. Oh, did I say the wrong thing? Am I going to, if we survive this, have to go answer for it?

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  And that's a very real piece. That one is one that pilots worry about probably more than actually flying with a trainer.

• 1:21:13Tucker Carlson?

  So I think, big picture, it's very obvious that safety standards have fallen dramatically. Maybe not literally, they're not rewriting the safety manual, but safety is not-

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  Or distracted. That's what I would say.

• 1:21:23Tucker Carlson?

  It's not the top concern. Clearly, it's not the top concern.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  Clearly.

• 1:21:27Tucker Carlson?

  So, I mean, how long before, you know, hundreds of people die?

• 1:21:33Speaker 02

  I hope never again in my lifetime.

• 1:21:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  Because the people at the front of the airplane, me, my partner, we're going to do what we know how to do. And it doesn't matter to me if I get called in because I misgendered somebody.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  There are still good people out there. But we're getting to that critical mass point where we need a little time. We need a pause. We need this new incoming FAA administrator whom I've read a lot about. I really like him. He looks like a very faithful person and he's going to fit in the administration and be confirmed rather quickly. We need to get the pilot age up. The standards do not need to be lowered for the incoming. And then we're going to need to take some time and mentor. And I think we can get there. But the clock is ticking. So the Trump administration, I think, is on the right track to fix four years of complete

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  dismantling of the US aviation industry. I hope, I pray they can get there, but I think they've got the right people in place.

• 1:22:38Tucker Carlson?

  You said you've never been nervous flying.

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:22:42Tucker Carlson?

  Have you ever been nervous as a passenger?

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Hmm. Hmm. I'm sure I have. I'm more nervous when I stand on like the edge of a tall building or I'm scared of heights, Tucker. Absolutely.

• 1:22:55Tucker Carlson?

  Are you actually?

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  I refuse to go to the Grand Canyon. I won't do it.

• 1:22:59Tucker Carlson?

  What's your cruising altitude in 767 long haul flight?

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Depends. 28 to 38, somewhere in there. You know, we climb as we burn fuel. We get lighter, so we climb.

• 1:23:07Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  But you know, 36, 37, 38. What is that? Almost seven miles high in the air and passengers, think about it, you're sitting in a chair doing eight to nine tenths the speed of sound. That's a pretty awesome thought.

• 1:23:21Tucker Carlson?

  That's incredible.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Isn't it? Where we are. Yeah.

• 1:23:25Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I think the whole thing is absolutely wonderful. What do you think of the new planes?

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  Well, I fly the old planes. I'm a Boeing girl. My husband flies the 787 and he likes it. I mean, you know, technology is wonderful. It just goes further, faster and higher. So we'll see. I'm more worried about the coming technology with regards to single pilot or autonomous flight. I don't know about you. I'm not getting in an airplane without a pilot.

• 1:23:55Tucker Carlson?

  Autonomous flight?

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. It's coming.

• 1:23:58Tucker Carlson?

  You're making me feel uninformed. So there are, like, this will solve the union problem. Just get rid of the people.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  Get rid of the people.

• 1:24:05Tucker Carlson?

  So there are planes planned with no pilot?

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  Well, we have them now. I mean...

• 1:24:10Tucker Carlson?

  I guess they're called drones.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  Right, they're called drones. I mean, they, in Houston, we have pilots that are in the garden reserve. They get in their car in the morning, they drive down to Ellington, they walk into a trailer, they're flying a drone over in Afghanistan, bombing the bad guys, and they drive home. I mean, it happens all the time. It's not coming this generation. We have cars, autonomous taxi cabs in Austin, Texas, right? They drive around and you just jump in one and it charges your credit card. First time I saw it, it was crazy, but they have it. So what's coming is, first of all, is the move to reduce one pilot in the cockpit.

• 1:24:45Tucker Carlson?

  On a commercial airliner?

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. So the way it'll work, most likely, they said, Aviation and Space Magazine had this about four or five years ago, they'll have a control room, drone operators, me, when I retire, all these people will be sitting in a control room, and you'll take off. Remember that old V1 rotate engine failure we talked about? You'll just push the Boeing button. And I'll come on, I'll say, "Hey, Captain, I've got the airplane. You get the checklist." So a room of eight people can work the whole thing.

• 1:25:14Tucker Carlson?

  Wouldn't it be easier to just put someone in the cockpit?

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Wouldn't it be? You know the old joke, we have a dog in the cockpit, right? You know why the dog is there? To keep the pilot from touching it. Bite him if he comes. So, yeah, that's the first step. They're going to start, it'll start in cargo carriers and trying to push to eliminate one body. And then...

• 1:25:33Tucker Carlson?

  For cost reasons.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  Cost reasons. Because you can only control the price of the airplanes, the price of the people, or the price of fuel, right? Fuel's pretty set. Airplanes, you can get the better financing if you play the game, but we cost money.

• 1:25:47Tucker Carlson?

  That's just absolutely crazy. I will pay a premium to fly in a airline with two pilots.

• 1:25:53Speaker 02

  Well, but it gets better. The next generation or two might go there, but at the same time, the drone world, and I think they call it VTOL, Vertical Takeoff and Landing, whereby you, Tucker Carlson, can have your own VTOL and you can fly yourself to the airport and then you can get on the big airplane. This stuff is all in the crazy works behind the scenes at the FAA. You can read about it. It's there. They're establishing corridors and plans. It'll start with pilots operating, but eventually they're looking for an autonomous situation where you just, the Jetsons, you walk out, get in your little hovercraft, go to the airport, get in the big hovercraft.

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  It's coming.

• 1:26:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I hope I'm gone when this all happens.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  I surely will be.

• 1:26:38Tucker Carlson?

  Sure, that was really, it was wonderful to get the benefit of your decades of experience and your honesty. So, thank you.

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  Thank you enough for the opportunity. And I really pray for the President, Secretary Duffy, the incoming FAA Administrator, that we can get ahead of this before it gets out of control.

• 1:26:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, before people die. I hope so. Thank you very much.

• 1:27:06Tucker Carlson?

  We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit Follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter, telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.