Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong: You’re Being Lied to About Cancer, How It’s Caused, and How to Stop It

Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong is a surgeon who made billions inventing cancer drugs. He says that Covid, and the vaccines that didn’t stop it, are likely causing a global epidemic of terrifyingly aggressive cancers. (00:00) Why Are Cancer Rates Rising in Young People? (06:16) What Is Causing This Cancer Epidemic? (14:52) Is There a Connection Between Covid and Cancer? (29:33) Why Dr. Soon-Shiong Never Got Covid (42:36) How Big Pharma Tried to Undermine Dr. Soon-Shiong (51:35) Dr. Soon-Shiong’s Analysis of RFK Jr. Paid partnerships with: ExpressVPN: Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/Tucker and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! MeriwetherFarms: Visit https://MeriwetherFarms.com/Tucker and use code TUCKER2025 for 10% off your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  Dr., thanks a lot for coming on. So you spent your life, you know, 50 years working on treatments for cancer. And when you started, it seemed like we were moving in the West toward the elimination of cancer. Smoking was a huge emphasis. Get rid of tobacco and cancer rates will drop. Obviously, smoking does cause cancer. And we got rid of it, basically. But cancer rates went up. And that is a very rarely remarked upon mystery that really bothers me. Tell us, since you made billions of dollars selling your companies, but you're still involved in medical research, which I admire. Where are we now with cancer?

• 1:13Tucker Carlson?

  What are you seeing in cancer rates?

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Well, what's really worrisome to me now is not just the rate, but the population in which it's increasing, i.e. the younger people. So we're clearly seeing an increase in certain types of cancer, like pancreatic cancer or ovarian cancer. And we're seeing it, colon cancer. And we're seeing it in younger people.

• 1:58Tucker Carlson?

  Just to set a baseline, what's the 10-year survival rate for pancreatic cancer?

• 2:03Speaker 02

  It's horrible. I think, you know, if you have pancreatic cancer today, I don't think there is a 10-year survival rate, so to speak.

• 2:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  What there is, however, if you have patients who are what we call fail all standard of care, the survival rate is in months. You measure it in two months.

• 2:19Tucker Carlson?

  That's certainly my understanding, having watched a lot of people die of it.

• 2:23Tucker Carlson?

  So advanced pancreatic cancer is a death sentence. Where are you seeing it now?

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Well, I got to tell you a really concerning story. It's not only I'm seeing it now, I'm seeing it in younger people and for the first time in my career. You know, when I left UCLA, I was doing all the Whipple's, which is a surgery to actually remove most of the pancreas, a very big operation.

• 2:49Tucker Carlson?

  You're a surgeon as well?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  I'm a surgeon.

• 2:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  And I was also doing pancreas transplants for type 2 diabetes and islet cell transplants and stem cell transplant. So I had this diverse activity as a UCLA assistant professor. But I never saw pancreatic cancer in children. And the greatest surprise to me was a 13-year-old with metastatic pancreatic cancer that the family called us to help.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  And to me, that was not only devastating, it emphasized the idea that we're seeing people with higher incidence of pancreatic cancer and younger. Right now in our clinic, we have 45-year-old, 50-year-old. And what was sad about this young boy, by the time he came to see us, he had exhausted all the standard of care. And he came from Butler, Pennsylvania. And all the major medical centers really... Had exhausted all their therapy. By the time he came to see us, his body was ridden and he passed away.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  So seeing cancers now in younger people and almost a rise, almost like, I don't want to call it a non-infectious pandemic, but this is what I think is going to worry some in the world, not just in the United States, but largely in the United States, we're beginning to see this and it's really worrisome.

• 4:22Tucker Carlson?

  A non-infectious pandemic of cancer, including deadly cancers?

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 4:28Tucker Carlson?

  Like pancreatic. In your career, which I think is about 50 years of working on this, how many 13-year-old pancreatic cancer patients have you seen?

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Never.

• 4:39Tucker Carlson?

  Never?

• 4:40Speaker 02

  I inquired around because it bothered me so much now of why this is happening. So Dr. Stephen Day was a good friend who was true trained with me at UCLA when I was at UCLA. He's now at the Angeles Clinic and I called him and he said, listen, Patrick, I'm now seeing an eight-year-old, a 10-year-old, an 11-year-old with colon cancer.

• 5:05Tucker Carlson?

  Colon cancer?

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Colon cancer. We've never seen that. We're seeing now 30-year-old, 40-year-old ladies, young ladies with ovarian cancer. So this is a real phenomenon of a rise of cancer in early people, in young people, and really need to get to the bottom of that.

• 5:27Tucker Carlson?

  Do you notice a difference in the virility of the cancer, of the speed with which it moves?

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Well, I'm getting reports, they've even called it turbocharged cancers.

• 5:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, I've heard that phrase.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Right. I'm getting reports of that now, that people that have been in remission before even are now getting back the cancers and very rapidly progressing.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  So if you really think about what the cause of cancer is, you know, and I did a piece with Sanjay Gupta many, many years ago on 60 Minutes. And I said, you know, the cause of cancer is its inability, it's not the rapidity of its growth, but its inability to die. And its inability to die is because it either hides from the cells that matter, i.e. your natural killer cells, your T cells. Or, and this is what I'm really worried about, your body and the cancer has found a way to suppress your killer cells. And once they do that, once they activate what you call the suppressor cells,

• 6:34Speaker 02

  and you call yourself immunosuppressed, and then I think you see this rapid progression because there's nothing stopping them.

• 6:46Tucker Carlson?

  What could possibly be causing this?

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Well, I think if you look back of causes, you know, ironically, when I was doing at UCLA, I was working on pancreas transplant where I want to immunosuppress the patients.

• 7:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, you have to.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, because you prevent it. And then I was working on cancer where I don't want to immunosuppress. So I needed to understand the body's mechanism. And we have a crazy, wonderful, exquisite balance in our body. You have the yin and the yang of the killer cells and these things called natural killer cells and T cells.

• 7:28Tucker Carlson?

  Whose job is to kill anything that threatens the body?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Its job is to kill, quite right, anything that threatens the body, whether the body has infection, if you have TB, you have HIV, if you have hepatitis, you have COVID. These cells are there to recognize these infected cells and kill it. As you and I are sitting here today, our stem cells are growing in order to replenish parts of your body, your heart. If you didn't have that, you wouldn't have a heart. At the age of 14, you need those stem cells. But mathematically, there are some cells that are transformed and your body recognizes that through these natural killer cells and kills it. I call that nature's first responder.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  And that's your mechanism. That's how we are all protected and we are in the state of equilibrium or balance. On the other hand, the moment either the tumor find a way to hide from these cells or your bodies or the tumor causes these cells to be suppressed. And that's why I call this suppressor cells. And there are certain cells in your body called T R E G cells or myeloderive suppressor cells, it is all technical, that when they get upregulated, you've lost your protection. And so the question then is, how do we understand this balance? How do we increase the killers and how do we decrease the suppressors?

• 8:59Speaker 02

  So that's been 50 years of my challenge of, and how do we expose the tumor? So on the one hand, you need to expose the tumor because it hides from the killers. And then you activate the killers. And the other hand, you have to suppress the suppressors. So we're truly playing a good game of chess. And I think like astrophysicists, where you're looking for God's particle, where all these molecules are floating around, talking to each other, all the cells are floating around, talking to each other, and this dynamic interaction. And how do you understand all of that? You know, one of the best, most fun lectures I gave, I give a lot of lectures on this

• 9:43Speaker 02

  and try to be non-technical because it's basic, what I call basic immunology. And the problem with cancer is it's been treated by oncologists and not immunologists. And immunologists don't see patients because they look at basic immunology. And then when you have infection and you have virology. So these cross disciplines of virology, immunology, oncology, all these allergies don't talk to each other.

• 10:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. So you're saying, just big picture for non-specialists, of which I'm of course one, you're saying that cancer is to some extent a problem with your immune system.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  It is everything about your immune system.

• 10:26Tucker Carlson?

  So you've got all kinds of defective cells that could become cancer or cancer in your body at all times.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  At all times.

• 10:31Tucker Carlson?

  But your body is zapping them.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 10:33Tucker Carlson?

  Right, which is, and that's the fundamental balance of the human body.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 10:37Tucker Carlson?

  And when that body gets out of balance, when the killer cells become suppressed or less effective, that's when you get cancer.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 10:47Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so I'm sorry to interrupt, I just know.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  No, it's, I love it because that's the perfect interpretation that I couldn't do

• 10:58Speaker 02

  in a non-technical way, because I think that's, I get too nerdy, so I'm glad.

• 11:04Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you are a doctor.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  So, but that's, that's, I think, is what's happening in our body. We have these perturbations, but we're in equilibrium, you know, and that's a good thing. The moment you knock yourself out of equilibrium, now what could knock you out of equilibrium? And that's why when, you know, Bobby Kennedy is talking about, is standing up about the toxins in our food, the toxins in PFAS, the processed food, and viral infections. And really, what knocks you out of balance, basically, is inflammation. If you have inflammation in your body, there's this, now I'm going to get nerdy again, these cells called neutrophils

• 11:54Speaker 02

  that actually see an infection and tries to kill it, which it does. But if there's persistent inflammation, these neutrophils actually flip into a suppressor cell. So what people don't realize is that we have the yin yang in our body, that every cell has a counter cell.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  And that's where I was about to go there. I said, "The most fun conversation I had, where I was asked by astrophysicist or physicist to give a lecture, is I named this concept of cancer, a quantum theory, like a physicist. And that in our body, we have cells that can be in two states. It can be a killer or a suppressor. And like the Schröder's cat, it could be alive or dead. And it depends what you do with it. And so I named the thing Quantum Oncotherapy Therapeutics, just to be controversial, so that doctors could understand what I'm talking about,

• 12:57Speaker 02

  is that we need to understand the fact that you have a killer T-cell, and you have a killer suppressor cell. We have an M1 macrophage that actually chumps things up, and M2 macrophages that blocks that. You have an NK-cell that kills, and NK-cells that inhibits. And we need to have that balance, otherwise you'll get into autoimmune disease. But there's a thing called quantum entanglement, that is this cat alive, or is this cat dead? If somebody interacts with that, and the person that interacts with that is the doctor. So you, as a doctor, could either be enlightened enough

• 13:42Speaker 02

  to activate just the activators and suppress the suppressors, and change the dynamic towards the cure. But it's very complex, because it's now quantum, because all those changes are happening in minutes in your body. These molecules, like God's particle, where they're colliding with each other, and cells are colliding and interacting, happens within minutes. So you need to have a theory of how you interact at that level. And in so doing, the first thing you need to understand is, how does cancer happen? And then, how does it grow? How do you stop it?

• 14:26Speaker 02

  This idea of a vaccine, a cancer vaccine, do you radiate that cancer? Do you remove that cancer? Do you remove the lymph nodes? Do you give chemotherapy? And crazy enough, over the last 50 years, I figured out that everything we're doing is not, the word "wrong", because that's a bad statement, a pejorative statement, is not enlightened, a better way to say it, because everything we're doing is tipping the scales towards the suppressor cells. We're activating the suppressor cells. We're not activating the killing cells. And we can go into this conversation where I can explain that. So the key system, which you just said,

• 15:08Speaker 02

  is cancer is all about the immune system. So if you activate the immunosuppression system, you get more cancer. So then, the fundamental root cause is what's activating that immune system on the other way?

• 15:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  And that's inflammation.

• 15:23Tucker Carlson?

  Something is suppressing people's immune systems, including the poor 13-year-old boy who died of pancreatic cancer. And the question is, what is that? And maybe there are a lot of causes, but it is, you know, we're not the first people to notice there's been an increase in scary cancers in populations that didn't used to get them. It's very obvious, just from living here. And a lot of people have pointed to both COVID, the virus, and to the mRNA COVID vaccines as potential causes. Do you think that they're related?

• 15:53Speaker 02

  The best way for me to answer that is to look at history. What we know about virally-induced cancers is well-established. We know that if you get hepatitis, you get liver cancer. Hepatitis is a virus infection. We know if you get human papillomavirus, HPV, you could cervical cancer.

• 16:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. Certain kinds of throat cancer are caused by viruses as well, right?

• 16:20Speaker 02

  If you get HIV, you could cope with sarcoma.

• 16:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  So we call that oncogenic viruses, in medical terms, meaning viruses that are induced carcinogenic. And the fundamental basis for that are threefold. The hallmarks of an oncogenic virus is, one, it must persist. And why? Because it continues to create inflammation. And why? With inflammation, you get suppression, because your body's trying to suppress it. It must inhibit the thing called P53 that's in your body to try and protect your body from not having cancer. And if it persists and causes inflammation and inhibits P53, it begins to have the hallmarks of an oncogenic virus.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  So then the question is, does COVID, whether it come from the vaccine, which is the spike protein vaccine, or from the infection, which is spike-driven, that gets into every cell of our body?

• 17:21Tucker Carlson?

  Every cell of the body?

• 17:23Speaker 02

  It goes wherever you have the thing called the ACE2 receptor, which is in the blood vessels. So wherever you have a blood vessel in your body, it's where it's gonna go. And if it has an ACE2 receptor on that blood vessel, that's where it can go. Because that's the purpose of the spike protein, to penetrate, to hijack that ACE2 receptor and get into their cells. So that's why it gets into pancreas. That's why you have brain fog, because it disrupts the blood vessels of the brain and causes mitochondrial dysfunction. It's why in the colon, which has a high, in the GI tract, has a high ACE2 receptor. That's why pancreas has ACE2 receptor. Where that's why you people have, in the heart, you have dysfunction. You've seen young people have sudden heart attacks all of a sudden.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  You see young people with pancreatic cancer all of a sudden. You see young people's colon cancer all of a sudden. So is it by coincidence that post-COVID infection, post-COVID vaccine, we're seeing all these events where we know the spike protein goes there? I don't think so. I think it's not a coincidence. So the question is, can we prove is this, what I call long COVID virus persisting? And the group at University of California, San Francisco, has now definitively proven that and published that in papers like Nature. Can we also prove that once you have that persistence of that virus,

• 18:49Speaker 02

  does that COVID virus suppress the natural killer cell? Does the natural killer cell actually not only go to sleep, becomes what we call energetic? That's now been published. The natural killer cell has gone to sleep.

• 19:06Tucker Carlson?

  So by your definition, we just solved the mystery right there.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  I think so. I think this is a conversation I had with the.

• 19:16Tucker Carlson?

  Well, but wait, I mean, billions of people, literally billions of people had the COVID virus, over a billion got the spike protein vaccine. So that's like, we're talking like a huge percentage of the Earth's population, unless I'm missing something.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Now you understand what keeps you awake at night. It's kept me awake at night for two years, two and a half years. And that's why I sort of abandoned everything just to focus on how do we clear the virus? Because the answer is to clear the virus.

• 19:50Tucker Carlson?

  From the body.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  From the body. The answer is to stop the inflammation, because it's chronic inflammation.

• 19:57Tucker Carlson?

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• 21:23Tucker Carlson?

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• 23:20Tucker Carlson?

  So can I ask a dumb question? How long does the virus remain in the human body?

• 23:25Speaker 02

  So far, we've found three years, four years.

• 23:28Tucker Carlson?

  Is there any reason to believe it'll naturally go away?

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Not if your body's immune is suppressed.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  So it's a circle.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  You ask what causes cancer? Because your body's immune is suppressed. You have, in your body, nature's compound. And if the tumor or the infection or the inflammation suppresses it, you have to find a way to reactivate it and clear the virus. It's literally as simple as that.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  And that's the missing link that I think.

• 24:03Tucker Carlson?

  So it sounds like you're describing what could be like the worst human health crisis in history.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  I don't know how to say that.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Without saying it, it scares the pants off me because I think what we may be, I don't think it's virus versus man now. You know, this is existential.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  I think when I talk about the largest non-infectious pandemic that we're afraid of, this is it.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Because while there was an increase in cancer in our country because of the idea of the toxins and anything else, this immune suppression that has occurred now globally,

• 24:51Speaker 02

  and more importantly, the immune suppression tied to inflammation, chronic inflammation, which is asymptomatic and sometimes, and sometimes it's not. There's 15 million Americans with lung cancer.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  And they're not psychiatric when they have memory loss. They're not psychiatric when they have instantaneous heart attacks. It's not psychiatric when you have an 80-year-old, 10-year-old colon cancer, a 13-year-old pancreatic cancer. So the idea was, is there a solution? And this is what.

• 25:28Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I certainly hope so. Because you've spent your life around scary diseases. Like, that's been your life.

• 25:35Tucker Carlson?

  And if you're scared, then that's not a good sign.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  I'm scared but hopeful. I think it's important for me to have this conversation with you. Not just, that's why, okay, I'll share with you a conversation I had. I got invited by the CEO of the Henry Jackson Foundation to come to DC. I think October, November last year during the election phase. And just to have a conversation about, about what I'm doing. And there he brought the leader from Walter Reed, the BADA, the DOD, the NIH, the NID, all into that room. It was just me. And I said, it is time.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  It is time for me to reveal to this learned group of leaders about what I'm scared about. And I spent, I think it was three hours, no slides, just me speaking alone on the stage and all of them in the audience. When I first started the conversation, the first sentence was, I think COVID is oncogenic. One of the members of the audience said, that's nonsense. I said, okay, let me explain to you what we've been doing in our research. At the end of three hours, four hours, he said, you've got to publish this. This is so important. And I said, yes, we are processing the publication. And then what came out was this paper

• 27:03Speaker 02

  that they biopsied the colon of young people temporarily when no COVID, too COVID, and showed the persistence of replicating viruses in the colon tissue two years out.

• 27:16Tucker Carlson?

  Replicating COVID viruses?

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Replicating COVID viruses. Replicating. Asymptomatic replicating in the tissue, meaning there's inflammation. And when you have this inflammation, these neutrophils, now getting geeky again, plasticize, flip from a protective neutrophil to a suppressive neutrophil. It's called an N2. It's called a myelodereived suppressor cell. That's official name. So now you have suppression in your body. And it's no wonder that then converts into colon cancer.

• 27:59Tucker Carlson?

  But so is this true, do you think for, I mean, have you had COVID?

• 28:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 28:04Tucker Carlson?

  Lucky man.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Not lucky man, T-cell man. I have a T-cell in my body that protects me from the nuclear capsid.

• 28:16Tucker Carlson?

  Where do I get one?

• 28:19Speaker 02

  That trial was held up by the FDA and by Collins and Fauci.

• 28:24Tucker Carlson?

  You never got COVID because your protector cells were so strong?

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Not only a protector cells, if I do get COVID, the virus clears. You want to clear the virus?

• 28:36Tucker Carlson?

  Get the hell out of my body.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Get it out.

• 28:40Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, I just want to pause here. I know you're in the midst of a much larger story, but this is something I think everyone can understand. So I think I'm in good health. I am in very robust.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Did you have COVID?

• 28:49Tucker Carlson?

  I did.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  How many times?

• 28:51Tucker Carlson?

  One. I never took the virus. I never took the vaccine.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:56Tucker Carlson?

  But I got COVID, knocked me right on my butt. It was a bad three days. Fine. But I don't understand, you're older than I am. How did you never get? I just want to get very specific, like how did, I mean, everyone on the planet got COVID.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Okay, so let me, let me give you some idea. Okay. Um, one, because we understand the implications. My wife, touch wood, also never got COVID because both of us. So this is, this is the story. We, by, by, unfortunately, I relate this, it's a painful thing to me because I relate to Kobe's death. It was during Kobe's time when he passed away. And at the funeral.

• 29:44Tucker Carlson?

  Kobe Bryant, who you were close to.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Correct, very close to. And at the funeral, at his funeral, all the people in the room, and it's, I think, November. And I turned to Gavin Newsom and I said, listen, this is one virus I'm worried about because I was studying this virus. You know, I understand HPV very well and I understand hepatitis. I said, this is not a respiratory virus. This is a dangerous virus.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  So I went back and I shut down our organization so that we could actually do nothing else but COVID. My entire team of hundreds of scientists on Zoom and everything else around the world, I said, we must go after this virus with a vaccine that clears the virus. And the only way to clear the virus is to have what we call a T cell, an NK cell, the cells that kills cancer cells. And I wrote a paper with Carlos Cudon who said, COVID is like cancer and cancer is like COVID, meaning it's immune suppression that causes its spread and it's immune suppression by the COVID virus that allows it to persist.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  So the only vaccine that's important is a T cell vaccine. But that's what I'm telling you, virologists think about antibodies versus cellular therapy. It's foreign to them to have a vaccine that stimulates T cells. So I said, I understand that internally.

• 31:17Tucker Carlson?

  It's a little weird, since in 20 minutes, you explained it to me, not particularly high IQ, not a scientist, I understand exactly what you're saying. Why don't, why isn't it obvious to virologists, why isn't that like day one lesson in virology school, that the T cells, that the cells that protect you against all potential internal harm, they're the key?

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Because every vaccine so far is antibody based. Dogma.

• 31:46Tucker Carlson?

  Dogma.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Blind spots.

• 31:48Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, now we're cooking with gas. Now I understand what you're talking about. Dogma, blind spots. Nicely put. Okay, I'm sorry, I keep stepping in a story. So you figure out.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  You're not stepping, because you're allowing, you're actually interpreting, it's a pleasure to me, because I don't know what I'm saying sometimes, whether it's going to be so geeky, it gets lost. It's important for the audience, for you to interpret. This is what Sanjay did for me in the 60 Minutes. He was brilliant. He spent two years with me, by the way, doing a little 15 minute piece.

• 32:20Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'd come to LA, we'd do this, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

• 32:23Tucker Carlson?

  Damn, we just had breakfast. That's it.

• 32:27Tucker Carlson?

  But can I, okay, so you figure out early, everyone's panicked about COVID, okay? But your position is they're panicked for the wrong reasons.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 32:35Tucker Carlson?

  And actually, maybe they're not quite as panicked as they should be because this virus could pave the way for cancer because it will suppress the immune system of the human body. So you, in November, you said, when did you?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Right, so, so by March 2020, we had the vaccine. March 2020, because I had built a full GMP facility for cancer, using the same vaccine that NCI had retested for HPV and for colon cancer, I think, or CEA. So I'd create this, this vaccine in which we would educate your body prior to COVID

• 33:14Speaker 02

  for the treatment of cancer, to educate the T cells to recognize the cancer cell to kill it. That's called a cancer vaccine, but which, by the way, is for the only vaccine in clinical trials today to prevent cancer that the NCI is running using our technology.

• 33:28Tucker Carlson?

  Is there any way you can take the word vaccine out and call it something else?

• 33:30Speaker 02

  I'm calling it Bioshield.

• 33:33Tucker Carlson?

  Vaccine just scares the crap out of people.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  I know, because it's not a vaccine in that general sense of an antibody-based vaccine. It's your body's Bioshield. So we'll announce it on the show. We're going to call this Project Bioshield, which, by the way, in 2004, there was a Bioshield Act for national preparedness for, against radiation, against a pandemic or infectious diseases. So we have, the worst thing that could happen to you is to have us, one dose of radiation will wipe out your NK cells and your T cells. That's how you die.

• 34:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  That's how you get cancer.

• 34:14Tucker Carlson?

  It zaps your immune system.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  It zaps your immune system. So we wanted to create a Bioshield. And the Bioshield is to educate your body to have these T cells called memory T cells that go and hide in the bone marrow and come out when they need it and kill that cell so it can never do damage. That's the concept. And it's not a foreign concept. We published it with the National Cancer Institute. So by March 2020, I took all my, our resources. Thank God we had the resources. So that's the sort of gift.

• 34:48Tucker Carlson?

  Was this your money?

• 34:50Speaker 02

  All my money.

• 34:51Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so I should just say, I alluded to it earlier, but you had a couple of companies making cancer drugs. You owned all of them. I mean, you own, I think 100% of the companies. You sold them for $10 billion or something. So, but rather than buy a vineyard, you continued in your work. Is that a fair?

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Very fair. You know, as I said to you over breakfast, I had no idea about stocks. So when the two companies were bought, and they were bought for the right reasons. So one company was American Pharmaceutical Partners, and we were making literally close to a million vials a day in the United States, manufacturing of 150 different SKUs for every part of the hospital. And with Safer Hepran, so Fresenius said, we want to buy you. We said, great. And then I developed this molecule that was feeding the tumor that could activate the immune system to activate the macrophages called a Braxane. And Celgene said, we want to buy you. I said, great. And the purpose for my selling them was not for the money, clearly it was for the money,

• 35:51Speaker 02

  but the purpose of the use of the money to pursue this dream of this astrophysics, to find God's particle in your human body to activate your immune system. That was the purpose of this money. And that's all I've done with the money. I spent about $3 billion of this money. I've not gotten one penny from the government, not even one dime.

• 36:14Tucker Carlson?

  You're the only one.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And maybe that's the freedom and the liberation. Allow me to say what I can say now.

• 36:21Tucker Carlson?

  That's right. So, again, I keep pulling this away because there's a lot here that's interesting. But how did you not get COVID?

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Okay. So I recognized that, so Peter Marks and I had these conversations. So he was head of CIBA, and I was in pinging him with the science because this is a biologic.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  And I was saying to Peter, listen, Peter, I need to show you that we need to create a T cell vaccine. And he said, well, we don't do T cell vaccines. Everybody's doing the other vaccines. But great, let's continue.

• 37:01Tucker Carlson?

  The antibody vaccines.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Antibody vaccines. And then he called me and he said, we're going to create Warp Speed. And he's a Star Trekking and I'm a Star Trekking. I love Warp Speed. I said, okay, we're going to do this in Warp Speed, absolutely. But the only way, Peter, you're going to do this in Warp Speed, you need, we need, as a country, to have NIH and BARDA fund a trial where we take macaque monkeys, we give them the vaccine, and everybody should throw their vaccine in, because I don't care, it's not mine or theirs, whoever's vaccine, to clear the virus. The only way to this experiment, you give the monkeys the vaccine,

• 37:43Speaker 02

  it's under your control, you have a hundred monkeys, everybody gets a set of vaccines, and then you infect the monkeys in the BSL3 facility with a high dose of COVID. And then you see in their lungs and the tissue that there's no virus after seven days. Absolutely. That was Warp Speed. So I was one of eight of Warp Speed. Then I get a call, Patrick, you dewarped. You are there. I said, test my vaccine anyway. They did. A vaccine tested the NIH and BARDA. It cleared the virus, as I predicted. There was no virus in their

• 38:28Speaker 02

  lungs after a big infection. So I said, okay, I'm dewarped. And this was a Francis Collins scheme, and Anthony Fauci's scheme, and Mounsey Slawi's scheme. And one day, we'll talk about the conversation I have with Mounsey Slawi, and what I've learned about Francis Collins in that, in that event. And they were going to go after this antibody vaccine, which is this mRNA vaccine with spike. And I said, this is too important. I told my people, we're going to build our own vaccine with our own money. I couldn't get enough material other than to do one batch, and we're going to do a phase one trial.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  And we're going to inject as many people that we can do in the phase one trial. I'm one of them. I injected myself.

• 39:22Tucker Carlson?

  And your wife?

• 39:22Speaker 02

  And then, and we're going to measure, I won't talk about, I don't want to talk about the family.

• 39:27Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, of course.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  And we're going to measure my own blood. I drew my own blood and tested, and I have T cells to, to nucleocapsid and to spike. Which means if I were to get COVID, Dutch word, the T cells, now our memory T cells, would clear the virus. So we then tried, begged, begged, because not for funding even, but for the plastic bags that were now restricted, as you grow these things, to Pfizer, Moderna, all the materials that you need in a biologic facility.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Got zero.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  I've only got one batch, so I'm going to South Africa and inject these in patients with HIV, because that's the biggest test you could have. You couldn't generate T cells in the patients with HIV and do this phase two and phase three trial in South Africa. So we did that. And then I called Peter and I said, Peter.

• 40:35Tucker Carlson?

  I, I'm sorry, what were the results like?

• 40:37Speaker 02

  T cells.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  The people that, interestingly enough,

• 40:46Speaker 02

  it doesn't say, just so you know, you have to differentiate,

• 40:54Speaker 02

  that does it actually prevent the penetration of the virus versus the load of the virus versus the clearance of the virus? These are three different things.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  So

• 41:07Speaker 02

  we think it prevents the penetration, but we don't know because as soon as it does penetrate, it would clear, so you wouldn't even know. Or the T cell vaccine. This is anecdotal, but some of the people who got our T cell vaccine, their family members got COVID. They didn't get it, obviously, the vaccine, and they didn't get COVID for a time while living with the family.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  The issue of clearing the virus in transmission was the key.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  So an antibody vaccine may reduce the viral load and therefore reduce death, which is a good thing that President Trump did. But the next generation of clearing the virus was what was needed. And both should have been developed simultaneously.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  It wasn't. And I'll share with you to this day. It's a mystery to me why. But the opportunity to clear the virus was actually known, I think, by Collins and by Fauci, that it did not clear the virus.

• 42:14Tucker Carlson?

  The Spike vaccines.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  The Spike vaccine.

• 42:17Tucker Carlson?

  Pfizer, Moderna.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  The antibody vaccine does not, to this day, does not clear the virus.

• 42:24Tucker Carlson?

  That seems like a big deal.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Well, just what we talked about. If you don't clear the virus,

• 42:31Speaker 02

  and you have pieces of the virus in there, especially Spike, whether from the infection or from the vaccine, and now you get another infection. Now the virus brings along this nucleic acid. Now it reconjoins and replicates again in these, what they call, privileged sites. Two years later. So what we're seeing, now we're back to persistence. That's now published just months ago. And this is what I shared with NH secretly four months ago. And persistence, asymptomatic persistence but with inflammation,

• 43:15Speaker 02

  and reduction of P53 and immunosuppression

• 43:22Speaker 02

  are all the hallmarks and recipes for cancer.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  And coming back to your first question is, why are we seeing an increase in young people? I think all of the above, the toxins, the history, the red dye, the PFAS, the COVID, all of the above.

• 43:43Tucker Carlson?

  Does both COVID and the COVID vaccine lower over time the human immune system?

• 43:52Speaker 02

  The vaccine itself up-regulates temporarily the antibodies. But if the vaccine, the spike protein breaks off, and the RNA or DNA goes into the cells, and whether from infection or the vaccine, that's where the controversy is, right? It could be both. And the vaccine doesn't clear the virus. That's the key. It doesn't clear the virus.

• 44:27Tucker Carlson?

  And that's why we were told, of course, you take the virus and then you can't get COVID or transmit it, but neither one turned out to be true. Demonstrably untrue.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Well, it's not only demonstrably untrue, it was knowingly untrue. That's what's bad about.

• 44:44Tucker Carlson?

  It would seem like that's criminal, actually. I mean, if I tell you that, you know, this car gets 40 miles to the gallon and instead it blows up, that's a crime. You can't sell anything under false pretenses. That's a crime. I don't see how this is not a crime, but.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Well, as you said of a breakfast, it's not a conspiracy if it's true.

• 45:08Tucker Carlson?

  I believe you're writing a book with that title. You probably have no idea where your meat comes from. You probably should know. The likelihood is that the meat you're eating passed through a massive industrial processing plant, probably owned by a foreign corporation. Foreign meat. Did you sign up for that? We don't think you did. So you probably have no idea of knowing where the animal grew up, what that animal ate, or what chemicals, big food pumped into the animal to increase profits. That's all kept secret, meaning you can never really know what you're putting in your mouth and in your body. That's disgusting if you think about it, and it's easy to fix. Meriwether Farms, a farm owned by friends of ours, is a great option.

• 45:51Tucker Carlson?

  We use their meat, we eat their meat for every meal. Unlike corporate farmers, Meriwether Farms controls the entire thing, from the pasture the cattle graze on to the facility where the beef is packaged. In Wyoming and across the Mountain West, the cattle are raised without hormones, without antibiotics, or any other additive. Clean, American beef you can trust every single time, and they will ship it straight to your door. Go to MeriwetherFarms.com/Tucker, use the code TUCKER2025 for 10% off your first order. You can also save on a monthly subscription if you sign up today. That's MeriwetherFarms.com/Tucker. We eat it and vouch for it.

• 46:30Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 47:00Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 47:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 47:03Speaker 05

  You need NyQuil Intense Flu.

• 47:05Speaker 07

  Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best sleep with a flu medicine. You do got this. Use as directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 47:14Tucker Carlson?

  So, and you know that they knew? You've established for a fact that the developers of this and our public health authorities knew that the COVID vax would neither prevent infection nor transmission?

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Yes. And worse, I think, you know, it's not well-known that during the first...

• 47:40Speaker 02

  President Trump election, he offered me a position. And I turned it down because I said to him, I really could help him from outside in better than, and I had too much to do. I really was working on this, thank God, working on this potential cure for cancer as well as clearing the virus with COVID. This, what I call the missing link, which we can talk about. This activator of the unnatural killer cells, this bio shield. And we have the spy shield now. So it was the right decision for me not to go into the government during that time and to stay, stay out.

• 48:18Tucker Carlson?

  This was 16, 17?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Correct. But worse, I've since discovered, not by my inquiry, but it's been revealed to me, emails about Francis Collins and some politicians work hard to prevent me from even joining, becoming Edvin H. And I think that was the motivation all the way downstream, that we asked, okay, so what happened to this vaccine? So I called the FDA and said, okay, I can't do a randomized placebo-controlled trial now because you've got Pfizer's Moderna vaccines all over the place. So let me be the booster.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  And Peter Marks, to his credit, was the one who said, absolutely. Peter Marks, to his credit, was the one who says, I'm worried about this COVID vaccine and this long COVID. I want to study the effects of this vaccine. Peter Marks would then said to me, Patrick, fine, go ahead. I injected the first three patients as a booster. I get the call from the FDA to say, you have to stop. I said, why?

• 49:33Speaker 02

  To this day, they never explained to me it wasn't Peter. It was people around Peter. Said, you must stop. So we stopped. And there was nothing more we could do anyway, because we didn't have any of the resources, the money, the supplies to complete a phase three.

• 49:50Tucker Carlson?

  So the government has a monopoly on some of the materials that you need to do this kind of testing in a bio lab, is that correct?

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Correct, but now we into Biden era. So now we in the Biden era. It said, I must stop. This is 2020 now. Oh, no, beyond, it was, yeah, it was during the Biden era. And I think there was this, sadly, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but now I've come to realize it truly was a deep state inside there that had a motivation beyond. It's hard to say, it's most devastating to say, beyond public health. And then I just tweeted recently of how so few people could hurt so many.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  And that's why when I tweeted about, finally, we have the right person in HHS with Bobby Kennedy will take this on. And that we have doctors that will be like Marty McCary, who I don't know, but I do know he's a surgeon who can understand and touch and feel what it means to be there on behalf of the patient. And my support for that. I think we have a chance now to completely turn this around in this next few years.

• 51:15Tucker Carlson?

  I think this last election was in part about that. I think the national realization that COVID was, there was something very dark there. It wasn't just a virus that happened upon us naturally, that there was, there was, there was a lot of evil bound up in it. But just to back up a second, you said you have learned from watching COVID that a few people can hurt so many. Who are those people?

• 51:40Speaker 02

  I think the main culprit really sitting there was Collins.

• 51:44Tucker Carlson?

  Francis Collins.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Francis Collins. And he controlled, I mean.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  I had shared with President Trump that Francis Collins should not be the NIH director. He offered me a job. Peter Thiel nominated me. And I've since found emails of Francis Collins sending an email to a politician that, "Alarm bells, alarm bells, Peter Thiel has nominated Patrick Soon-Shiong, we have to find a way to stop it."

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Why? To this day, power, greed, political need. He did the same thing with Craig Venter. You remember during Clinton's time with the Human Genome Project where Craig Venter invented the sequencing machine for tens of millions of dollars, maybe spending billions of dollars doing nothing but wanted the credit. I think what happens to you when you get into Washington, the ego, greed, and power changes your own mindset. So I can't give motivation to that.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  All I can tell you is when I saw that email, I was devastated that somebody would actually go to that extent and then send that same email to the CEO of Bio, which is all big pharma. And that CEO of Bio said, "Let's go to Google, search to find some dirt on him."

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Dirt on you? On me. To stop me from being nominated to be head of NIH or whatever. Let's Google him to stop him? Let's Google to find some dirt, some bad stuff, negative research, whatever they want to find. They probably couldn't find any dirt on me, but that was the interchange between them.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  On email.

• 53:46Tucker Carlson?

  But the funny thing is, you made a product, and by the way, it was a clarification of terms. My understanding was a vaccine was administered to a healthy person to prevent him from getting the disease. You're describing a product, the one that you made, that you can inject into an infected person and it cures the infection. That sounds more like a conventional medicine than a vaccine.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  It's a therapeutic.

• 54:07Tucker Carlson?

  A therapeutic.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Correct. So, you know, I use the word vaccine because that's what they understood. You know, it's, it's dogma and terminology.

• 54:17Tucker Carlson?

  Right. But you're, but you're giving this to people who have COVID, who have HIV.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Well, I want to give it to people who don't have COVID, so they can actually, if they do get COVID, but then I am now giving to patients with HIV. I'm giving to people with HPV. I'm giving it to people who are getting cancer and have cancer. And more importantly, I, there's one in 280 Americans, one in 280 Americans have this thing called Lynch syndrome. What Lynch syndrome is, is a genetic predisposition of an 80% increase of colon cancer, ovarian cancer, breast cancer. It's a genetic predisposition where your cells don't repair themselves.

• 54:59Tucker Carlson?

  I lost a friend to this, yes.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  We are in clinical trials for the BioShield for patients with Lynch syndrome. We now have 100 patients enrolled already, giving them this BioShield that'll prevent cancer. So it's one of the first trials of prevention of cancer, rigor and treatment of cancer. Then this drug, this BioShield, I keep on not wanting to call it the vaccine, has just gotten proven 2024 for bladder cancer. We now have people who failed everything, who would have their bladder removed. Think about that, your bladder removed, a 9% mortality just from the surgery alone, where we're giving them this BioShield. That's all they

• 55:40Speaker 02

  got is a subcutaneous injection, or, sorry, into the bladder. And they are now free of disease, still complete remission, nine years out, alive today. We can talk to them, published.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  We have patients with metastatic pancreatic cancer. We just published. We're free of disease, five years out. Senator Reed, who came to see me after having failed all other treatment with this pancreatic cancer, spread to his liver, came to see me and he said to me, Patrick, I'm here, but I checked with Francis Collins, who said, don't go.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  I said, well, Senator Reed, your choice is, I'm coming. And we gave him the therapy.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  And ECA19 went down to normal. And he lived for two, two, two years, free of disease. He actually came, was very active.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  We had a patient with Merkel cell carcinoma, which is a terrible disease of failed everything.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  He came into our clinic, complete response. Nine years out, he died of other causes.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  The reason I met Robert, R. J. Junior, I've not known him for about four months, is I called Bobby Schreiber.

• 57:10Tucker Carlson?

  His cousin?

• 57:11Speaker 02

  His cousin. And the reason I knew Bobby Schreiber, because Bobby called me seven years prior to that, saying, Patrick, I'm on the city council of Santa Monica and the mayor of Santa Monica has this terrible tumor in his head and neck. It's ulcerating under his chin, ulcerating through his jaw. And UCLA and Cetera signed, I said, he's got two weeks to live, he's got to go to hospice. Can you see him? I said, absolutely, Bobby, I think he needs our natural killer cells, he needs our bioshield.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  So I brought him to our clinic, which we have in Los Angeles, in El Segundo. The nurse has broken into tears. The nurse says, Patrick, what are you doing?

• 57:49Speaker 02

  UCLA said he has to go to hospice. You should give this man. I said, no, you don't understand, we can dynamically activate this. And this is all as an outpatient. We got him into complete remission.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Complete remission.

• 58:03Tucker Carlson?

  Is he still alive?

• 58:04Speaker 02

  So it healed and this melted the tumor.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  He went home because it was exposed. A little bleed happened in the blood vessel. His family took him to St. John's and then they called me frantically and says, "The doctor says do not resuscitate." I said, "What? Call, let me speak to that doctor." He said, "Well, it's bleeding and it's got this thing." He's, I think he was in his late seventies, early eighties. I said, "Please clip it. It's a complete response and we're going to do a flap to cover that." He did. We did the flap. He lived for two years, ate, was able to eat. So when I called Bobby and I said, "Bobby, you remember what we did?" He said, "Absolutely, Patrick. A lot of people have asked me to introduce to Robert.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  You know, Robert and I don't speak very much. We've had an argument about, but, but his ideas." And I said, "I understand, but I'm going to give you a number to, to, to, to, to Robert, to Bobby Kennedy, and he'll call you." Bobby called me in 10 minutes and I said, "Bobby, I'd like to introduce myself." He said, "Patrick, can I meet with you?" I said, "Please." And he came to meet with me at my home and we had this long conversation. And I realized, I've just, I've watched your, your show with him. He is what he is, an authentic man with a sense of purpose, conviction, courage. He says what he really believes.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Sometimes it may be wrong, sometimes it may be right, but he says what he believes. And I really believed, oh my God, yes, somebody would have the courage to take on the world and ask the questions. And I said, "I'm going to support you." And that's what happened. That's how I got to know him.

• 1:00:00Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing. He was dismissed by, no, not just dismissed, attacked and vilified by a lot of people in the medical establishment, I would say, everybody. Why were you willing to listen to him?

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  Because what he's saying is exactly what I was saying. And I, I'm sort of attacked by these same people because of the dogma that's out there. So let me give you this example. I said, "Bobby..."

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  And I shared with him the story about Hope Hicks. I said, you probably just walked out to the office and I walked in in 2016, 2017. I said, listen, people think of you as saying you shouldn't have a polio vaccine, that you're an anti-vaccinator. What you really are saying, you're worried about the recipients inside the vaccine. About the what? Okay, so that's the technical, the materials that go in with the vaccine. Yes, the mercury, etc. The mercury, etc. So I understand there's a polio vaccine, there's 1, 2, 3, 4 polio vaccines that have now been manufactured.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  And now that all of a sudden, there's a new polio vaccine that's manufactured in which we have cow's serum, calf serum, inside that vaccine. And I know, and you know, everybody knows, in the UK knows, you can get pre-on disease from this calf serum because you can't measure that. So that got approved in four days with, just because of safety, the way dogma is happening. But there's other polio vaccines. So you can take the other polio vaccines, but don't take that one. Just like I was telling you about, maybe I was telling you about propofol story over breakfast. And you should explain it that way, that you want it just to be examined.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  And he said, exactly. I said, okay. Not only did I get him, he is asking the right questions. And people are scared to ask these questions because of his perverse incentives. And that was what bothered me. But in science, shouldn't any question be allowed? Exactly.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  So when I tweeted, I said, he knows more science than most doctors. He's much of a- It's a good thing you're rich, because you'd be out of a job tweeting stuff like that. But it is, right? And that's what's a blessing, I think. You know, I lived the American dream. And that's when you said, okay, I made this money. The money is for the purpose of me able to do this. And I was very concerned about being too loud about it, because if this deep state would hold up the approval, and they did, by the way, they put us into complete response later. I got a thousand requests for information. The most, my submission was close to 700,000 pages in order to get this thing through.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  700,000? It's like the US tax code. This drug has been in trials now for eight years, 2015. How long was the Pfizer mRNA COVID vaccine in trials? Months, not even. So that's why I'm trying to say, you know, this, when you- I know what's on my ticket. You know, when you were talking about the user fees. So we thought that the user fees was going to accelerate the approval, where the FDA gets user fees from the pharma. It turns out that the big pharma user fees are so large, it pays for the salary for all these reviewers. So now the biotech companies, the young biotech companies are throttled.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  So the big pharma that does this incremental little dots that just follow the revenue, there's checkpoints, multi-billion dollar Merck's, what, 20 billion, 30 billion on the revenue? Bristol-Myers follows it, AstraZeneca follows it, Roche follows it. There's no, they're all the same, but it's all about incremental sameness and follow the dollar. But the innovation is really at this young biotech companies. They are throttled. This is what needs to be changed by the FDA today. They need a complete revamp where people with skill sets-

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  And the skill sets of the modern science, not the old drugs, has to be in place to understand what's at stake here.

• 1:04:42Tucker Carlson?

  Time for another true life ALP story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday. Honestly, true story, who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over ALP. He wouldn't stop. And I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad. Imagine if I'd married her. Now I know I was saved. Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice the speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. Cop takes his license and registration, goes back to patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window and sees a tin of ALP on the dashboard, pauses, stunned, says to my friend, "You use ALP?" "Yeah, I do," says my friend. "So do I," says the cop. "We all do." He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, "Drive safely, sir," and hands back his license and registration. No ticket!

• 1:05:27Tucker Carlson?

  So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like ALP, and a speeding ticket. All true. It's more than a nickel ticket. In an age where 350 million people are guessing there are about 350 million ALP stories, email us yours. We want to know and read it on the air. Email [email protected]. [email protected]. Give us your ALP story.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:06:28Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you have to take the conflicts out, too. I mean, if a reviewer is paid by the company whose drugs he's reviewing, that's like such an obvious conflict, in no other world would that be acceptable.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  Not only wouldn't be acceptable, if then that reviewer has also the role to block an innovator. It gets worse.

• 1:06:47Tucker Carlson?

  Again, this just seems like crime to me.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I don't know. If this were going on in another country, outside the United States, and I'm an American, so I give the United States every benefit of every doubt. It takes me forever to realize something's corrupt, because it's America, it's not corrupt. But if this were happening, I'll just name the country, China, South Africa. You know, I'd be like, well, that's the most corrupt thing I've ever heard.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Well, that's exactly the fear I have now. The Chinese don't have this restriction, and their innovation is now outstripping us. Think about that. I've always said, America's lead in healthcare and biomedical innovation is the best in the world. And if we could use biomedical innovation as foreign policy, for Africa, and to Asia, and to India, to bring that to the rest of the world, that's how we lead. I now read the papers, and the Chinese science is now outstripping us. Look what happened to AstraZeneca just last week. They just spent $2 billion investing in China now.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  That's a tragedy for us.

• 1:07:58Tucker Carlson?

  Not for manufacturing?

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  For innovation.

• 1:08:01Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, so that's not good.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Not good.

• 1:08:04Tucker Carlson?

  Because the idea was, we offshore all the manufacturing, but we, the ideas, generate here.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  So AstraZeneca's an English company. So what I'm saying is, the fundamental problem, I think, lies at the FDA, and even the NIH. So the change that Bobby's bringing in with Jay now being ahead of NIH, and Marty being ahead of FDA, and Bobby himself having the courage to stand up, to talk both against the food industrial complex and the pharma complex, take on the mercs of the world and the vices of the world.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  I think we have maybe an opportunity of what I call a period of enlightenment. And really, I'm all about enlightenment. And if you could look at the Sanjay piece, we are there now. So I want to actually send out.

• 1:08:52Tucker Carlson?

  Can you stop and ask a question, though? So your position is that cancer, but not just cancer, all kinds of illnesses are caused by weakened immune system and inflammation.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  It's all about the immune system. Your body functions, you live or you die by the immune system. The senescent cells aging is the immune system. The cells in your body that allow you to go to 100 years old, 120 years old, is based on the activity and the function of the immune system because the immune system what's regulating your healthy cells.

• 1:09:31Tucker Carlson?

  Can we just go through, I know this is not like patentable, this is not your business, but it's, I'm, what are some of the obvious things a person can do to strengthen his immune system?

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  So you ask what activates the natural killer cell? So it's your, it's like, you know, when you look at the leaf and you talk about apoptosis and the leaf actually sits and goes brown and, and it changes, but then goes back up. So all of human nature, all of nature is filled with this biology of this balance. So you have, you're a product of nature. I mean, literally, you're a product of when you were tadpole and a fish as we came out. So this cell is evolved since the Cambrian age. Think about that. This cell, this natural killer cell in your body.

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  I published my first article in natural killer cell in 1990. That's, this cell was only discovered in 1970s. Think about that. And we've ignored that cell. This is what I call the missing link. I'm gonna announce that at the American Urology Conference in Las Vegas in the end of this month. We have discovered, I've not discovered the missing link, we've discovered the awareness of this missing link and how to activate this missing link. So the idea is to activate the natural killer cell. It has 30,000 receptors on this cell. What this natural killer cell does,

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  it replenishes itself with sleep, so sleep is important. It replenishes itself with light, with sunlight. And I believe there's a certain wavelength, the red wavelength, in the sunlight that it actually requires for it to be stimulated.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  So

• 1:11:27Tucker Carlson?

  This is why people get sicker in the winter.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's why Seattle has the highest suicide rate.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  Think about that, right? So these things, and if you look at the places like Norway and Sweden where there's very little sun,

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  Finland.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  So

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  nature's all about light, sunlight. So that's why I think this is

• 1:11:56Tucker Carlson?

  I like obvious, abstract. Nations, nature's all about sunlight, of course. Plants don't grow without sunlight.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Right. And at the end of the day, we, we, we're either about neutrons, photons, and electrons. That's what, that's what we are. We as a human being is nothing else but a battery and end gate.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  When you think about that, right? So we have a bunch of electrons and neutrons and charges that floating through us and actually interact. And that's how I think of the human body. That's why I said, I think of it as an astrophysicist. It's crazy, but that's how my mind works.

• 1:12:30Tucker Carlson?

  So sleep, getting sunlight.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  And, and, and having food that doesn't immunosuppress your biome. The bacteria in your body sends out materials that actually will immunosuppress or activate.

• 1:12:47Tucker Carlson?

  What are the immunosuppressive foods?

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, I think most natural foods are fine. It's the toxins in the food. Exactly what I said, the excipients. So when you talk about red dye, the processed foods, all this unnatural processed stuff ultimately cause inflammation. Now, when it gets back to this plasticity of inflammation, inflammation causes immune suppression because it causes all these cells to flip

• 1:13:19Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  from the killer state to the suppressor state. That's why we said we have this dichotomy of is the cat alive? Is the cat dead?

• 1:13:28Tucker Carlson?

  You see it, you see it too in the elderly. You know, it's why an infection or a, you know, a diabetic foot infection can lead to a systemic infection and kill the person.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:13:38Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  That's why, you know, when this guy discovered that H. pylori causes gastric ulcer, they said, you're nuts. It's acid.

• 1:13:46Tucker Carlson?

  I remember that so well, so well.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  So now, when you think about that, so that's why I'm saying this dogma.

• 1:13:51Tucker Carlson?

  But that's a consensus now, right? Acid does not cause ulcers.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Well, it's the cause and effect. So H. pylori causes the inflammation and then the acid that's measuring your stomach activates it.

• 1:14:02Tucker Carlson?

  But it's not the core cause.

• 1:14:03Speaker 02

  Correct, correct, but it's all about dogma. That's why I call this a vaccine, but it's a bioshield.

• 1:14:10Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  So you have to fight dogma. Part of the problem is you're fighting. So I will ask you, I wanted to ask us to do an experiment.

• 1:14:19Tucker Carlson?

  I'm all for it.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  Where we pick up the phone, call any random oncologist, not to shame them, primary care physician, pick up a phone. And so you do a CBC, correct?

• 1:14:33Tucker Carlson?

  Can you define what a CBC is?

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  A complete blood count. Just you take a blood and you look for.

• 1:14:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, the blood screen that everyone gets.

• 1:14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. For whether you're anemic or not anemic. People understand that, right? Red blood cells. And you see these red blood cells. And you give chemotherapy and radiation.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  And you ask, what do you look for? Well, we look to see if you're anemic. So we can give you this drug that Amgen makes called Epogen. We look to see whether your platelets have gone down. So we can give you a platelet transfusion. We look to see whether your neutrophils have gone down so that you don't get an infection called neutropenic fever. So we give you this drug, Neupogen. Well, the problem is, does red blood cells cure cancer? No. Does platelets cure cancer? No. Does neutrophils kill cancer? No. What kills cancer? The natural killer cells and T cells. So in that CBC, there's a thing called the lymphocytes, correct? Do you look at that? No.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  The only cell that is important that kills cancer, 99.9% of oncologists will say, we don't pay any attention to that.

• 1:15:41Tucker Carlson?

  That is surprising. That does seem asked backwards. Why? Why? If you're not, you know, a tech oncologist, but if you're fighting cancer, why do you ignore the one cell that fights cancer?

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  That's the experiment I want to do.

• 1:16:00Tucker Carlson?

  That's a little mysterious. Am I missing something?

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  That's exactly. That's the missing link. The final frontier. The E equals mc squared. The Gauss equation. That is the key element in your body that we've been missing for 50 years. For 50 years. But it's even worse than that. Those missing link, we've actually destroyed with chemotherapy. We've destroyed with radiotherapy and we've destroyed with checkpoint inhibitors. We've destroyed with steroids. Guess what we give to patients?

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  Chemotherapy, radiotherapy, steroids and checkpoints. Am I missing something?

• 1:16:54Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know anything about this, you know, I was a Russian Studies major. But I have no, just because I'm 55, I know a lot of cancer patients. I have always been skeptical that the protocol is effective based on. So what I have noticed is those therapies seem to beat back the cancer in short term. But then so often you watch it come roaring back. You know, I'm in remission and then wham, you just get hit by a tidal wave of cancer and eliminated.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  So if you see my writings, I have written so many times, you win the battle and you lose the war.

• 1:17:28Tucker Carlson?

  So this is not, I'm not imagining this.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  You're not imagining it. You win the battle and you lose the war. The reason you win the battle is because you see this little blip of a response with chemotherapy. And then the moment you stopped or not even again, you've actually now killed the cells that were there to protect you. You've upregulated these suppressive cells and you get metastasis and you say, sorry, you now have to go to hospice.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  Think about that. That's what we've been doing for 50 years. That's the dogma that I'm fighting.

• 1:18:00Tucker Carlson?

  So what, okay, so let's just say I leave here and I'm diagnosed with, you know, a serious life threatening form of cancer. What would you recommend I do next?

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  So this is where you play chess and don't play checkers. This is where you play go, where you say, okay, what is the cancer doing first? Well, guess what? The cancer is not stupid, so it's figured out a way to hide from these killer cells.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  So the first thing you have to do is you have to expose the receptors and the cancers of the killer cells could recognize that. So even in the presence of chemotherapy, you don't use chemotherapy to kill the tumor. You use a tiny dose of chemotherapy just to stress the patient, the cancer. And the cancer is, oh my God, something's coming at me and it starts exposing itself. So you go from hide to expose. So you use the chemotherapy at a low dose called low metronomic dose to use it as what I call an immunomodulator.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Importantly.

• 1:19:12Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, I was asking, you're describing cancer as almost like an autonomous entity that has a goal, a will to destroy the human body.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  It does.

• 1:19:21Tucker Carlson?

  But that's, I mean, you're describing like a.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  It's a machine.

• 1:19:26Tucker Carlson?

  But with intent and kind of clever behavior, it hides like what? You're describing like some for some like foreign entity in the body that's trying to kill the body.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  It is. It's like a virus.

• 1:19:39Tucker Carlson?

  But how, how can a tumor know to hide?

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  Because it has genomic sequencing in there that actually blocks the expression. So.

• 1:19:47Tucker Carlson?

  Which sounds diabolical.

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  It is diabolical. That's why I spent 50 years trying to understand. It's not a human brain. It's biology and how biology can mutate. And actually, it's, your body is a beautiful thing. It's exquisite thing. So it has to have this thing called epigenetics. So it has the genomic sequencing that says, I'm not going to express this. So we can now stress that and block the, the block. And it now expresses something on its surface that our T cells can recognize. So that's the first step.

• 1:20:22Tucker Carlson?

  Smoke it out.

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  Smoke it out. But your body has mechanisms to smoke it out. It gets even more complicated. Your body has a thing where you can induce what you call DAMPs, which is damage associated molecular patterns, but forget that. It's a way of actually smoking it out. So now your T cells can recognize it. Okay. So now you've done step one. That's just step one. That's one molecule. So this is why I think the FDA needs to understand. We're fighting a war where you need battlefield awareness all simultaneously. Where you have to orchestrate your Marines, your army, your navy, your air force, all in the right place so that you can use the tumor in your body.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  To act as the weapon, as the vaccine. Because a tumor has molecules that is far under the rest of your body. And if you educate your T cells to recognize those molecules that is far under the rest of your body, that T cell can remember. Now you have a memory T cell. So for the first time in 2024, in our package insert, we have a molecule called the BioShield now, I'll call it the BioShield, that can activate the natural killer cell, activate the killer T cell, and drive memory T cells. We now have bladder cancer patients who would have lost their bladder in complete remission for nine years and still alive.

• 1:21:46Tucker Carlson?

  And so the protocol is you low dose, you administer low dose chemo to identify where the tumor is.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  You smoke it out.

• 1:21:54Tucker Carlson?

  You smoke it out.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  But at the same time, you need to have the natural killer cells and T cells ready. So you give them the BioShield that up-regulates and stimulates your natural killer cells and T cells.

• 1:22:06Tucker Carlson?

  What about radiation, does that play a role?

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  That'll kill your natural killer cells and T cells.

• 1:22:11Tucker Carlson?

  So no.

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  Unless, and this is comes out unless, today the radiation is what they call 70 gigabits, it's gig, huge doses. Unless you give a tiny little dose just to the tumor, nowhere else, to smoke it out. So you use radiation in a very different way called SBRT, a low dose.

• 1:22:32Tucker Carlson?

  To identify rather than destroy.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  To expose rather than.

• 1:22:35Tucker Carlson?

  Expose.

• 1:22:36Speaker 02

  So the algorithm is expose, from hide to expose. The next algorithm is activate and proliferate your NK cells.

• 1:22:46Tucker Carlson?

  And that's with the subcutaneous injection.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  The next algorithm is to educate your T cells with a vaccine that you anticipate that it's going to be exposed. So you now have educated T cells ready. So you've got educated T cells, you've got NK cells. And the next thing is to activate your macrophages, so they become killer macrophages. And the next step is to suppress the suppressors. You do that all simultaneously.

• 1:23:16Tucker Carlson?

  How much human suffering is involved in this? There's a lot in a conventional course of cancer therapy?

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  All as an outpatient. We've done hundreds of patients now.

• 1:23:25Tucker Carlson?

  So you're not, so someone taking this course is not going to, is he gonna lose his hair, throw up all the time?

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  All as an outpatient, no.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  What's even more exciting.

• 1:23:37Tucker Carlson?

  Because that matters for cancer patients. I mean, it's hard to be a cancer patient. It's horrible.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we've now seen patients now in complete remission. More importantly, I want to treat patients before they need surgery. So I could use the tumor itself in the body as the vaccine to educate the body, the T cells, all about that tumor.

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  What's even more exciting now, we can take blood from you, one pint,

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  and extract the natural killer cell in the T cell and grow billions

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  and store it in cry preservation, just like you do, I don't know, from cord blood. We now have the ability to grow these natural killer cells and give it to anybody.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  So I always said for the first time, we could become the American Red Cross of cancer, our country,

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  and use these innovations as foreign policy.

• 1:24:40Tucker Carlson?

  So could, um,

• 1:24:43Tucker Carlson?

  looking back, do you think it was unwise to require the population to get the Pfizer and Moderna vax?

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  It depends on the time.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  I think it's unwise to keep on giving this nonsense. I shouldn't say that. I should be careful when I call it nonsense. The idea of getting an antibody vaccine and then creating another antibody vaccine, another antibody vaccine that chases your tail? I don't know what that's doing, those spike proteins.

• 1:25:16Tucker Carlson?

  It's not ridding your body of COVID, though.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  It's not. Is it, is it creating even more variants in your body? I don't know, but.

• 1:25:25Tucker Carlson?

  Is that possible?

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  I see the idea, and I'm such a scientist, I need to actually go and actually pull out these variants and sequencing them. That's what we're doing now.

• 1:25:37Tucker Carlson?

  Is it theoretically possible?

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  It's theoretically possible.

• 1:25:40Tucker Carlson?

  Could there be any change to a person's DNA from taking?

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  Well, that's what this does.

• 1:25:46Tucker Carlson?

  It's what the mRNA vaccines do.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  Correct. It converts into DNA, and it converts, replicating, and that's what it does. And it replicates an RNA virus. It becomes, it's the virus.

• 1:25:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, as someone who's clearly, you've made reference to it a couple of times, interested in evolution, to change the DNA of a species is to change the species over time.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  No, I don't think it integrates. My concern is that this virus is all about itself.

• 1:26:14Tucker Carlson?

  Very selfish virus.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Selfish virus. In fact, the fact that it's now less deadly is in the virus's interest. The virus doesn't want to kill you because you are the incubator. Think about that. The virus wants your life.

• 1:26:32Tucker Carlson?

  You're speaking in a way that suggests intent and forethought.

• 1:26:36Speaker 02

  It's biology. It's evolution. Everything is evolution. It was the intent to go from a tadpole to a human being.

• 1:26:44Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know, but to consider the possibility, you have something, or the certainty that you have something within your body that is acting against your body's interests on purpose.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it needs you to be the incubator. So, you know, the veracity, when it was so man-made. So, you know, viral evolution, when it would be called affinity maturation, it matures itself so that it can be more infective. That's one thing it tries to do as a virus. I mean, these viruses are living organisms. And when you say living, they don't have brains or anything else, but they have machinery.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  That are very sophisticated, they have what they call promoters and et cetera.

• 1:27:35Tucker Carlson?

  Why would you make something like that on purpose?

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  Well, there are viruses in nature.

• 1:27:40Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  Which theoretically will go through what you call maturation that normally do not infect you. They're not species, they're species specific.

• 1:27:50Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  But why would you then change that? And that's what this, you know, gain of function study was so dangerous. That's why it was prohibited.

• 1:28:00Tucker Carlson?

  It's so self-evidently evil to even play with something like that with the potential consequences which we're now seeing, 13 year olds getting pancreatic cancer. Like, how could anyone do that? And why aren't those people in prison?

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  Well, it was banned, right?

• 1:28:16Tucker Carlson?

  It was banned in the United States.

• 1:28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:17Tucker Carlson?

  Hence the Wuhan lab partnership.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Well, so we subverted it. Now you talk about, you know, why so few people could harm so many.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  How they got around that is for the investigators to find out.

• 1:28:31Tucker Carlson?

  But I mean, you're someone who's created cancer drugs, who spent a lot of his life in a lab. That's why you're a billionaire. So you know a lot about this topic, obviously. And it's, it's clear to you that that's, that's just too dangerous to be doing that, right?

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:47Tucker Carlson?

  To take animal viruses and make them...

• 1:28:48Speaker 02

  You can't control it. I mean, because you've done affinity maturation that would have taken

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  tens of, maybe millions of years. In that fusion protein, they created this fusion protein and created, and then, then they created this vaccine, I think, I think Bonnie Graham was the part with Collins and everything else, that was so proud to create this RBD and make it stable. Think about it. The spearhead, the tip of the spear that goes into your cell, we're going to make it stable.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  That's why this vaccine was produced. This was the mRNA vaccine was produced.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  So you've taken a virus that's now gone from bats to man only because I think this gain of function work. You then create a vaccine by taking the spearhead of this virus that is now being created to get into you and make the spearhead even more stable and put it on the vaccine and says, here we go.

• 1:29:49Tucker Carlson?

  This seems super crazy. So just from the perspective of a, of a layman again, if I've never had COVID and I get the mRNA, you know, if I get the Pfizer vaccine, mRNA vaccine, if I got it three years ago, can you detect COVID in my body now?

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Possibly.

• 1:30:08Tucker Carlson?

  See, that's like, that's just crazy town.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  Look, I know of a, I won't name her, but she was a very senior person at the FDA. And she just got the vaccine, that's it. And within weeks, she got brain fog, loss of memory. So there's clear evidence that sometimes the vaccines affect, is the cause, sometimes the virus is the cause. So that's what I'm saying. It's, but it's not, it's not mutually exclusive.

• 1:30:41Tucker Carlson?

  I understand. And it's, and it's.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  But it's all about the spike.

• 1:30:45Tucker Carlson?

  But it's, but the idea that you would be introducing the COVID virus into a body that was not infected by the COVID virus is like.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  You went after the wrong protein, basically. I've been, I've been begging them to go after the nucleocapsid protein because the nucleocapsid protein, which is in the core of the vac, of the, of the virus, is not the tip of the spear.

• 1:31:07Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:31:07Speaker 02

  And if you have a T cell, it lasts for 17 years. We know that from previous COVID infections.

• 1:31:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:31:14Speaker 02

  But they refuse to do it.

• 1:31:17Tucker Carlson?

  This seems like a human tragedy at like an unimaginable scale.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  Completely. It devastates me.

• 1:31:25Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's incredibly bracing. And I think you're one of the very few people I've ever met who has the absolute authority to speak on this. And yet, you've not been encouraged to speak about it, it sounds like.

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  I've not been what?

• 1:31:40Tucker Carlson?

  Encouraged to speak about it.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I'm not a political person. And I have this bigger picture that we have to find a solution, not just for COVID, but for cancer. And the irony is this Bioshield works for both. And the only-

• 1:31:59Tucker Carlson?

  Because they're connected, it sounds like.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  Completely connected. And the only chance we have now, because I had no idea that the political deep state was so powerful, and so vicious, and so egotistical, that they would stop good science. So now, I'm out there speaking, because the drug got approved. But that's not enough, just for bladder cancer. It has the same treatment effect for pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, triple negative breast cancer. It is the only molecule, for 50 years, that upregulates these killer cells, period, the missing link.

• 1:32:46Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you never got COVID. So that's, you really never got COVID?

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Never got COVID.

• 1:32:50Tucker Carlson?

  How many people do you know who didn't get COVID?

• 1:32:53Speaker 02

  Well-

• 1:32:53Tucker Carlson?

  The President of the United States got COVID like, four times.

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  So if you did get COVID, there's three antigens in the virus. There's a spike, there's a nuclear capsule, and there's a thing called the M protein, M. And if you have, when you do your blood test, you can see if you have the M protein. If you have the M protein in your antibody, or T cell, or antibody to the M protein, that means it came from the virus. If you have no M protein, it came from somewhere else, could come from the vaccine. I have no M protein, and I have T cells to N, and I have T cells to S.

• 1:33:38Tucker Carlson?

  So you could basically lick a park bench and not get sick?

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  No, it doesn't exactly. So now you need to differentiate and not conflate the ability of the virus to infect. It could still infect me. But my body has the protection, the Bioshield, to clear it immediately, within seven days.

• 1:33:57Tucker Carlson?

  Clear it. Is this a lifelong protection?

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  Well, based on the science of the, what they call MERS-1, where it was in 17 years is protection.

• 1:34:08Tucker Carlson?

  That was the original coronavirus outbreak.

• 1:34:10Speaker 02

  Correct, 17 years, this nuclear T cells is out there. So.

• 1:34:15Tucker Carlson?

  I'll take that, I'll take 17.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  Exactly. And you can get a booster. Now, what we're working on is a universal COVID virus vaccine for all coronaviruses because it's in. So what we did, oh, that's a good segue to that. So during my genomic sequencing, I was building the whole machine learning, supercomputing network, and I ran the national lambda rail for the God's particle, and I built supercomputers and AI way before AI was. And I presented the AI model to President Obama, believe it or not, in the one pager for healthcare. So our supercomputer, we combined ourselves with Microsoft, so we had the largest GPU cloud during COVID.

• 1:34:56Speaker 02

  And we're able then to actually look at the infectivity of every species, every variant of COVID with every human type, there's a thing called HLA, so that we could actually look at how the virus would change and void the T cells. The only thing that it could never do was change the nuclear capsid and never could void the T cells. We made that software public, it is still public, and published it so that anybody could test. Based on your HLA, your HLA and my HLA type would be slightly different. There's hundreds and thousands of HLA types.

• 1:35:34Speaker 02

  And know whether this sequence, if you had that sequence in your body, would be protective. Through that, we are developing what we call a universal COVID vaccine, Bioshield T-cell vaccine, and we have it.

• 1:35:53Speaker 02

  But how do you do it? So one of my thoughts was just to give it away to somebody. I actually offered to give it away to Regeneron and to Amgen way back. But they were too busy. Everybody was too busy during the COVID time. So one of the ideas now was for me to actually go to the Serum Institute in India and say, here, please go build this and make this available to the world. So, you know, just so much we could do as an organization. We're a tiny little biotech company relative to the Merck and the Pfizer's. But that's what my goal is. My personal goal is, when you say, I'm still doing it, I don't have a vineyard.

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  The resources that was given to me, it was like God's gift, I believe, that allowed me to do this. So, you know, we have hundreds of employees and 40 acres of land in Los Angeles. The other tragedy was I took over this facility in Dunkirk. If that New York State had put 200 million dollars in, completely empty, brand new, amazing facility for national preparedness. And I called Chuck Schumer to help me make that available for the country. Nothing. It's still sitting there, available for the country as a national preparedness manufacturing site in Dunkirk, New York, for which we put 50 million dollars in.

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  But there's no employees in there right now. Nothing.

• 1:37:24Tucker Carlson?

  That's crazy.

• 1:37:25Speaker 02

  It is really ridiculous, right? Without leadership, without skill sets in leadership and without informed leadership, how we as a country could go down the wrong path? And I'm so hopeful that these next four years could change that.

• 1:37:42Tucker Carlson?

  So this has been an amazing story. You're obviously very famous in the medical research world and controversial. But I'm sold on what you said. So everything that you've done is

• 1:37:57Tucker Carlson?

  You know, you'll have a great obit because of it. Then you decided to buy the LA Times in 2018 ish. And, you know, owning the main newspaper in the country's second biggest town makes you obviously a media mogul, but it makes you a political figure as well. And LA is so complicated, like, why would you do, why would you, you don't need that. Why would you do that?

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  Well, I think it really helps to know how I grew up, right? So I grew up in South Africa as apartheid. I, because South Africa didn't have, I did not see a TV until the age of 21, believe it or not.

• 1:38:32Tucker Carlson?

  No TV?

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  No TV. South Africa didn't have TV. So not, I didn't watch it.

• 1:38:36Tucker Carlson?

  Period.

• 1:38:37Speaker 02

  Also, it was just books and newspapers. That was the only way I got educated, books and newspapers. To the extent that I would go every day as a newspaper boy to the printing press in Port Elizabeth, sit at the printing press, get the first one off the press, read it, and then run with about two, 300 papers throughout the city. That would be what I did and grew up. So I fell in love with the printing press, the click, clack of the, and the oil and the smell. And when the opportunity came, remember, as I said, I had this amazing gift of the resources of selling these two companies that I never anticipated in life.

• 1:39:20Speaker 02

  With Michael Faro saying, he took over this company called, and then named it Trunk, and he was going to shut down the Washington bureau and move all the-

• 1:39:31Tucker Carlson?

  So he owned the LA Times?

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he owned the Tribune, actually, the whole thing, yeah, at that point, yeah.

• 1:39:36Tucker Carlson?

  Chicago Tribune, the Tribune Company.

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  The whole Tribune Company, which included LA Times and San Diego Tribune. And he knew how desperately I wanted the LA Times, because I had helped him invest to buy the rest of the Tribune, so I was a minority shareholder in that. And he came to me and said, hey, Patrick, you want it? Here's the price. You've got 48 hours to decide, and it's $500 million, no due diligence.

• 1:40:02Tucker Carlson?

  No due diligence?

• 1:40:03Speaker 02

  That was it. And I-

• 1:40:06Tucker Carlson?

  Who would take that deal?

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Only crazy people.

• 1:40:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. It's half a billion dollars and you can't see the books.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, nor can you go visit the newsroom.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  Because on Monday, we're going to actually shut all that and move them all out. And I don't want you to talk to these people. And you have until Monday to decide. And I was running a conference in L.A. With all my scientists and the National Cancer Institute and all the scientists were there in this hotel. And I said, oh, my God. So I went upstairs and we got a private room and I brought all the people into the room. And I said, I want to do it. And I called my wife. I said, we want to do this. I think this is an opportunity for us to have a voice for the people, especially if they're going to shut down Washington, they're going to shut down L.A. We'll never have a paper here. This is one of the most important things. So by Monday, I signed it. And that was it.

• 1:41:02Tucker Carlson?

  And you paid him $500 million?

• 1:41:04Speaker 02

  $500 million.

• 1:41:06Tucker Carlson?

  How grateful was he?

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Very.

• 1:41:10Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, I'm sorry to laugh. If you hadn't made so much money, I wouldn't be laughing because it'd be mean. But that's incredible.

• 1:41:17Speaker 02

  So Phil Anshut saw me.

• 1:41:18Tucker Carlson?

  I've got some stuff I'd like to sell you.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  So Phil Anshut saw me at the next Laker game. He says, you know, Patrick, I always thought you were such a smart guy until yesterday. But you know, I have no regrets. I think what I did then was said, OK, I'm going to take everything I know in healthcare, that rocket ship that I showed you, and then create. Because during that time, Bezos would have this Ark, he'd had the software and he had the Washington Post. And his team came to see me and said, listen, we've got this Ark software that we want you to run. I said, no, I don't like this old software. I'm going to go build a completely new software content management system that could take podcasts, video, live streaming.

• 1:42:06Speaker 02

  Because I want this newspaper to be an educational moment for people. And at the end of the day, a newspaper is not just a newspaper, it's a basis of engagement. I want to engage users as a tool to engage with people. Because that's how I grew up.

• 1:42:23Speaker 02

  So we took the risk and we built this content management system, took us five years and we launched it, which could talk to the printing press and it could talk to magazines, it could talk to podcasts, it talked to video, it talked to live streaming. And now it's just gone live. It's called LA Times Studio and LA Times Live. And the next thing we're gonna do is call LA Times Next. And the LA Times Next, a gentleman called Eric Beach and I are forming so that we could create a platform that would allow voices to be heard and free speech to be heard unencumbered by either opinion or news. So now we have three platforms. We have a platform of news, which supposedly is facts.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  We have a platform of opinion, which are now changed to voices, meaning everybody should have a voice, whether you're right voice, left voice, central voice, do you like Coca-Cola, Pepsi-Cola, whatever voice. And then a complete platform that allows free speech and video, podcast. And now I have that platform. And we've built the infrastructure to accommodate that platform. And I'm excited by LA Times Next because we're gonna have a studio in DC, we have a studio in LA, we may have even a studio in Nashville. And shows like this

• 1:43:49Speaker 02

  are important because I believe long forms like this is how you communicate for people who are interested. And it could be fun, it should be engaging, it should be interesting. And that's why I bought the paper.

• 1:44:04Tucker Carlson?

  Well, those are great reasons, as far as I'm concerned. But they come with them, the purchase comes with it, a, you know, a lot of people who work at the paper. I've worked in newsrooms like my, well, my whole life and I know that they hate change. They hate, they hate the owner, no matter what. Everybody hates the owner, just on principle. There are a ton of unhappy people in journalism. I would say the overwhelming majority, just for whatever reason, we could speculate, and they're very hard to manage. And they're roughly about a hundred or maybe even more percent left wing everywhere, including at, you know, supposedly conservative places that are all lefties. So how do you deal with that?

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  By being honest and transparent head on. And I openly shared with them. I said, listen, we cannot be echo chamber. I won't tolerate it. It's okay if you're left wing, but you need right wing. So I offered Scott Jennings an opportunity to write on the paper. And I said, we need all voices. And so I said, listen, I don't know who made these rules because I came into this newspaper. I don't know the difference between a columnist and op ed editorial page and, and news. And now when you're merging all of these, can you imagine the layperson not really understanding the difference?

• 1:45:24Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  And I want you to say, news is news and you the newsroom, fine. Theoretically, everything's edited. You've checked it. You've fact checked it. But when it comes to an opinion, I want to change that to call be voices. And I want all voices to be heard, all American voices to be heard. And you know, the Kamala Harris endorsement, I took a lot of heat because the editorial board resigned by my taking a stand that we cannot be an echo chamber of opinions not based on facts.

• 1:45:58Tucker Carlson?

  So just for those who didn't follow it, and it was quite a story for a couple of days there, it was during the campaign, the editorial board, correct me if I'm wrong, wanted to endorse Kamala Harris. And you said, no. What did they say to you? And what did you say back to them?

• 1:46:17Speaker 02

  Well, I can't put in.

• 1:46:21Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, come on. You've gone pretty far already.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  I can just say that we're not happy.

• 1:46:27Tucker Carlson?

  But what was their pitch like?

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  So, so, so the pitch was, we as a board have met and we have this prepackaged, we know this is outrageous, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:46:37Tucker Carlson?

  This prepackaged, what does that mean?

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  We had a prepackaged endorsement.

• 1:46:41Tucker Carlson?

  What do you mean prepackaged? They'd already written it?

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  They'd already written it.

• 1:46:43Tucker Carlson?

  After talking to Kamala Harris?

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  Never having met her.

• 1:46:46Tucker Carlson?

  They never met Kamala Harris?

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  Never met her.

• 1:46:47Tucker Carlson?

  Isn't the editorial board supposed to interview the candidates?

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  By the way, the editorial board never met even. I'm on the editorial board. So I said, I'm with them.

• 1:46:57Tucker Carlson?

  Kamala Harris was in LA all the time.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Correct. So.

• 1:47:01Tucker Carlson?

  In your neighborhood, actually.

• 1:47:02Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:47:03Tucker Carlson?

  Raising money.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  Raising money, keeping the traffic in trouble, raising money. And that's, and I'd never met her. And nor did the board ever met her. And I said, this is unacceptable. And they know they, as you could see, because it's a left leaning, they wrote terrible stories about President Trump, which is.

• 1:47:23Tucker Carlson?

  Had they met him?

• 1:47:24Speaker 02

  Not met him either. So my statement to them was, listen, you may have an opinion, but all of us should have opinion based on facts. I mean, one of the statements that came, and I won't name him, came from a person that said, within this concept, that Vice President Kamala Harris was the most consequential Vice President in the history of the United States. So I said.

• 1:47:49Tucker Carlson?

  No, I shouldn't lie. I don't mean to be dismissive. What, on what basis did the person say that?

• 1:47:54Speaker 02

  Having never met her, and one, so now exactly, you just hit it on the head. And I said, on what basis do we say that? What are the facts? Can we actually show the, the record of that? So I said, you know, it boiled down to, look, we're not going to do that. We're just not going to do it.

• 1:48:11Tucker Carlson?

  What did the person say when you asked?

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 1:48:15Tucker Carlson?

  On why are you saying she's the most consequential Vice President of the United States? Like, what are, what are the facts that underlie that judgment?

• 1:48:23Speaker 02

  I obviously had disagreed with that person and there are no bases for that other than, you know, as you said, a personal echo chamber, you know. And look, I think, I don't know what they're trying to protect. They're trying to, if I'm trying to find, I'm trying to find the kernel of basis, the audience, because the audience is left, so they need to be left. I don't think that's right. I think, meaning our audience, we lost a lot of viewers, right? I mean, thousands of people unsubscribed. But I don't think it's right that we should be this cancelling society. I think we should be a society that can have a civil discourse like we're having now

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  and disagree, it's okay, and understand each other's point of view. That's what I think is the value of the paper when you talk about voices. So that's what I'm instigating now. And so I've taken the opportunity.

• 1:49:18Tucker Carlson?

  Let's go back to the Kamala thing really quick. So were they, they were shocked that you cancelled that?

• 1:49:23Speaker 02

  They were worse in shock, they resigned.

• 1:49:25Tucker Carlson?

  They resigned?

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  So I had three, right now, 90% of my editorial board has resigned.

• 1:49:31Tucker Carlson?

  So where did they go? Because there are no editorial writing jobs left in the world.

• 1:49:35Speaker 02

  I have no idea. So, look, I think it's important, look, the fact that they had the courage to resign, some of them, now Kevin Murda, I fired. I fired Kevin before they resigned.

• 1:49:51Tucker Carlson?

  Why did you fire him?

• 1:49:54Speaker 02

  One, because of leadership, two, because of, I've got to be careful. I don't want to disparage him. I fired him because I didn't believe he was the right person or of taking the paper where it needs to be.

• 1:50:10Tucker Carlson?

  He was formerly at the Washington Post.

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  Washington Post, yeah.

• 1:50:12Tucker Carlson?

  I remember that well.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  And, and then after that episode, the editorial board, the rest of them resigned. And now we're rebuilding. Look, we have to, we have to, and what's exciting to me is I'm rebuilding with young people. And what's exciting to me is this opportunity with LA Times Next and LA Times Studio and then the newsroom. Terry Tang is doing a fantastic job. She's, she's, she's working hard to take on the people and the productivity.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  The productivity? Well, increasing productivity.

• 1:50:49Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, you're employing journalists?

• 1:50:52Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so that's the world I understand.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:50:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, there are some productivity issues there.

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you write one slug a month, I think that's not gonna be good.

• 1:51:01Tucker Carlson?

  Been there, been there.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so it's been an experience, but look, we're in for the long haul, I think. And, look, it's just not us, by the way. We gotta save these local newspapers. I agree. Right? We gotta save the ability to have local discos. Now with the LA fires, it's even more important, right? Look, I called out Karen Bass and Gavin Newsom. And these politicians- You know them both. I know them both. I text with them both, and I complained to them both. And what I tell the public is what I tell them. So I don't say anything behind their back. I personally say, I said, "You're not doing the right thing." Whether it be the homelessness, the homelessness, they did a terrible job. Yes. A completely wasteful job.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  So, these are the kinds of things that I think it gave us the opportunity to have a say in our community, you know, and that's what I'll continue to do. Now, we'll position ourselves in DC, and I think the next four years will be really, I hope, monumental. Doctor, thank you for spending all this time. All right, no, this has been fun and a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:52:17Tucker Carlson?

  We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor, hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter, telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.