Matthew McConaughey, Vol. II

Matthew McConaughey is back and if there's a better combo of an actor and a storyteller, we're not sure who it would be. He joins Josh to chat about his new film, THE RIVALS OF AMZIAH KING, launching into stardom 30 years ago, that infamous bongo incident, and stories of INTERSTELLAR, TIPTOES and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  I've been told many times, hey, can't believe you turned down Titanic. I'm like, I didn't turn down Titanic. And they're like, well, Cameron said. And I said, I never got offered that part. And if I did, I need to find that agent.

• 0:42Josh Horowitz?

  This is a major mixed signal.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  That agent owes me money.

• 0:46Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:54Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, another absolute icon is in the house. We have Matthew McConaughey on the show today, talking about his entire career, from Dazed and Confused to his new film, The Rivals of Amziah King. This man is one of the best out there as an actor and a storyteller. This one is worth your time. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, on whatever podcast platform you are using. And if you enjoy what I do, I encourage you to check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy, sad, confused. Early access, ask a question of our guests, access to our live events in New York and LA and beyond, and so much more. I don't need to give Matthew McConaughey much of an intro, right? Do I?

• 1:39Josh Horowitz?

  You guys know his work, and he is one of one. There's no one like him. And this conversation is fantastic because he can tell a story. And he does in this conversation. We go back to the beginning. We go back to Dazed and Confused and A Time to Kill. We talk about the bongo drum incident. Didn't have that on my bingo card, but we did it, guys. We talk about the roles he's turned down, some very famous roles, all the way up to and including this new indie he's a part of called The Rivals of Amziah King. It's a mouthful. It's a great piece of work. Kind of sits on a shelf with mud, in my mind, of kind of a vibe of a movie, a musical movie, without being a musical.

• 2:21Josh Horowitz?

  Matthew is front and center with a largely unknown cast around him. It's been in the works for a long time, and it's finally getting out into theaters now. It's been worth the wait. Check it out, The Rivals of Amziah King with Matthew McConaughey. That's enough of a preamble, because you want to hear from the man himself, the legend. Here is me and the one and only Matthew McConaughey. Enjoy. Matthew, you're back on the pod.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  In person, on camera this time. Last time we did it was pandemic, right?

• 2:50Josh Horowitz?

  Pandemic times. We're doing it for real this time. It's always good to see you, man. Thank you for making the time.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56Josh Horowitz?

  We're going to dig into a lot today. Of course, as always, Rivals of Amziah King. Congratulations, man. This has been a long road for this one, I know. So you must feel some sense of pride, completion.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, you declare, and you never know. Usually, what? You make a movie, it goes in a post, sometimes six, nine months a year. It comes out, you declare, this one's been a little bit longer than that. I'm glad it has, in a way. You know, the studio held on to it to find the right time to release it. We had a great declaration when we opened in South by Southwest, but now we're going to share it with the world and do it this weekend. And I'm honored to be a part of it.

• 3:31Josh Horowitz?

  So the last time we spoke, I mean, we were talking about where you were at in your acting career. And you were talking, I was asking you about going forward, and you were talking about making legacy choices, about kind of like criteria for yourself. And sure enough, like this one, it was about, I think, about five years between gigs when you shot this a few years back. So what made this like the one to get back in?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'd been reading scripts, and some good ones. But this is the first one that came across my desk. I was like, oh, that is a absolutely specific and original time, place, space, language, music, love story, father, daughter, Shepard, a character who gives belonging, who brings the light and puts people in the light. Everyone he meets, puts them in the center of the circle and raises them up. And bees and a mandolin bluegrass band

• 4:35Speaker 01

  who plays in gravel parking lots on any given Tuesday night.

• 4:39Josh Horowitz?

  It's part of the Hollywood handbook. Everybody knows this is how you make a movie.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Right, but you hear it, and that's what you can get out of a good independent film. Specific time and place. We were talking about Daniel Rohr. He did it with tuner.

• 4:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, texture to the world.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  And I didn't know that job. Someone goes and tunes pianos? What's that world? Oh, that person would have a great ear. They could pick safes? Nice connection. So this, you know, Rivals had that. And the script that Andrew wrote just caught my curiosity. I know those people. I know how they use music and humor to survive and thrive and get through hardships. I know how their sense of humor, that what may break other people's arms just bruises them. And they're making the best of it. And I know people like Amziah, who are just absolute legends, mythological characters in their own mind.

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  As well as making sure that everybody else they run into understands that they're a mythological character.

• 5:41Josh Horowitz?

  This might sound silly, but like, do you respond ever to like a title of a film or a character name? Because this is like, this one jumps out, both of them. You're the titular character. There's something there that invites more, you know, investigation.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'll respond to it for sure, because it's almost like a... Sometimes, you know, when I do a film, I want to go talk to the producer or director and go, what's the poster like?

• 6:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Just like, tell me, is it, well, it's a close up silhouette of you. Okay, this can be more of a character study. Oh, no, it's a wide shot of the plains, and there's 60 caliber men coming over. Oh, okay, it's more of an epic. Right. You get a sense, so the name...

• 6:21Josh Horowitz?

  Am I going to be leaning against the door? No, I've done that.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, the name can be just almost a musical note that you go, but Amziah and Rivals of Amziah King, that's very biblical.

• 6:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Mythologically biblical.

• 6:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  And so I want to, who's this guy? And it's in all caps. It's a proccernoun. It's not a common noun. You know what I mean? So that's part of the mythology. And so you had to go to read the script that was there and then talk to Andrew about who Amziah was, how the world revolves around him, and he draws people in. And then also, not to give a spoiler, leaves in a certain way. At an interesting time in the film.

• 7:02Josh Horowitz?

  You are obviously a huge part, and you are the titular character, but you're in some ways a supporting player in this, without revealing too much. And I think it's also like, you know, speaks to you that like, you know, you've been front and center a lot in films. You've been the leading man many, many times. You've also taken the supporting role when it calls for it. Wolf of Wall Street, that behooved you well. And something like this, like, kind of helping the next generation. Like, you know, is that important to you? Kind of like to pass on what you've learned and be kind of a mentor to a younger actor on set?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's not important to me to go, hey, I want to play number two on the call sheet so I can raise up the... No. No. They ain't worked their way up there. I'm not giving that away. At the same time, I want to be a part of great stories.

• 7:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  And this was a great story. And what happens to my character in the middle of the movie, which, again, not to give it away, some would say, some could say arguably to me, wait, why would you do that? Why would you choose that? Don't do... Nah, I'm not scared of what happened to this character. Actually, it's beautiful. It's part of the poetry of the film. Because my motto for my life's been, just keep living. You know? How do you keep someone's spirit alive when they're not there? How do we admit that sometimes people have to leave us? And what they leave us gives us our purpose and place to go. And if they were still around to help shepherd us, we wouldn't do it.

• 8:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  There's a certain amount of clarity and courage you get when our mentors leave us and go, no, I'm not going to be there this time. You got it.

• 8:35Josh Horowitz?

  It's a musical film without being a musical.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Well, it's source. We don't break into song in the middle of dialogue. It's source music. It's what we do.

• 8:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it just permeates the atmosphere. It's everything. I mean, is, are you, you strike me always as such a free and confident performer. Do you have that when you're called upon to sing? Like, do you feel the same kind of like confidence performing music?

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I get quite nervous. But look, I'll be honest, I still get nervous. And I go to set each day to act without singing. Now, when I have to pick up a new craft, being very comfortable in the middle of 10,000 bees crawling all over me. You don't just show up on the day and go, I'll do that. I'll just be cool. No, no, it takes a while to get comfortable. And then, you know, to then go play a mandolin and sing live. Yeah, that's nerves. I'm going to go work on that for a few months to get my feet under me. And, you know, what have I found?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  That when I'm playing mandolin really good, I'm not as good of a singer. When I was singing better, I'm not playing the mandolin. You just get the both going the best at the same time.

• 9:55Josh Horowitz?

  You're just talking about balancing life, dog, life, everything. It's the same thing. You got to get everything.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Same thing, hey, man, just keep them out of the red.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but to practice it enough and prepare enough to where on the day I can be confident, but still, major butterflies on the day.

• 10:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  When it's time to actually do, this is that performance. This is what you've been working on for three months. This is what you've been rehearsing. This is what you've been up in the morning and at night with trying to play and learn the tune. Now we have to do it like we've done it a thousand times because this character does it

• 10:23Josh Horowitz?

  Throw it away.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  All the time. The mandolin is an extension of his arm.

• 10:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  He plays it like he whistles and so how do we make it look and feel like that and believe that?

• 10:32Josh Horowitz?

  That's the trick. I mean, it's funny because like you have always struck me as like one of the people that seemingly is the most confident in their own skin. I mean that as a compliment, like you like, you know, you know who you are. And a constant conversation I have with actors is kind of what you just alluded to a little bit, which is like imposter syndrome, which like in my many conversations like plagues every actor virtually at every strata. Do you feel like that's still, I mean, you kind of just talked about this a little bit. When's the last time you felt like imposter syndrome? Like this, I'm the wrong guy for this or I'm not meant to be here.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Okay. So I think the way that I've, I shake hands with that and I have, and I did feel it very early on in my, very early on in my career, quite a bit, like success came over a weekend with time to kill.

• 11:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  The amount of yeses and green lights that came to my lap on that Monday morning that I did not have the previous Friday were monumental. And I was like, whoa, me? Why me? What? You want, should I can do any of these scripts? Wait, three days ago, I couldn't do any of them. And you want me to read all hundred and tell you which one I want to do? When three days ago, I would have done any of them?

• 11:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  What, what, what? Now, look, and I'm not saying this in jest, but I am saying it somewhat in jest. I've, when I shook hands and going, oh, hell, man. What's wrong with being a fraud? You could be a great fricking fraud.

• 12:02Josh Horowitz?

  Runs towards.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  That's what we're, we're playing make believe.

• 12:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  So it's making believe. So to be literal and go, there's, there's a, there's a journey that an actor takes to go, no, I have to inherit this from the inside out and understand that this is who I am. And by the time an actor's shooting on a script, that's where we want to be past any intellectual or philosophical definition of why I would do something. And we want to get down to the nut of it is because it's who I am.

• 12:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  That should be, after you do all the work and there's hundreds of pages of notes and you've gone into the psychology of the character, should end up why? Because that's who I am. Now you go that, take that journey to get there to, to understand and feel from the inside out who you are that is, that has that character that you're playing and who that character is, that, that, that, that you also, that, that you're becoming, that you learned from them. But it's fraudulent. It is fraud, but a great fraud.

• 13:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're fooling yourself and the audience.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  That's art.

• 13:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  I mean, art emulates life. Life's not the fraud. Art's the fraud and thank goodness for the fraud. Steal from me. And if you, and if you use it well, you just complimented me.

• 13:19Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's also, also because if you don't believe, if you haven't fooled yourself into believing that you're the guy, the audience isn't going to believe it either.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:26Josh Horowitz?

  You're the first audience.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  They'll see you twitch. They'll see you stutter.

• 13:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  They will see you do, trying to do the work on screen and think about, can I pull the, uh-uh. So great fraud, you don't see any of that. You don't, you see, we see performance and you see the work. You see the choices like, uh-uh, I shouldn't see that.

• 13:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  It's not as good, it's not as, not as good of a fraud.

• 13:49Josh Horowitz?

  You're an excellent fraudster. No, I get it totally.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Fraudster, is that a real word?

• 13:53Josh Horowitz?

  It is.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  If it isn't, it ought to be. I like that.

• 13:55Josh Horowitz?

  We know you making up words.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  We heard fraud you let. Let's go with fraudster. Yeah. So, I mean, good fraud, a good con, I mean, a good ruse.

• 14:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  A good muse. Good emulation. Imitation is not necessarily always a great fraud. It can be, it can be, oh, okay, can connect the dots. Hey, that was very much like that. No, you're already into a simile. If you get into similes, you're in trouble. Right?

• 14:20Josh Horowitz?

  I don't want to be like something, I want to be the thing.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Be the thing. Do you get past the simile, which is past the imitation? If you can pull it off, pull it off, pull off the fraud. And as you know, there's that, here, here's another way to put it. There's all that, you know, we have this sort of credo in society about, hey, find out who you are, what's your real identity? Go there. Well, let's also give what Bob Dylan says some credit. What are you talking about, man? Be the creation.

• 14:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Be what you want to be. Now, what's the genius do? The genius can be anybody they want to be, but they're always one at a time.

• 15:01Josh Horowitz?

  How many Bob Dillons have there been? We know he kept reinventing.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  You know?

• 15:06Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 15:13Speaker 00

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• 16:31Josh Horowitz?

  Segueing a little bit. We talked, I know way back when on the film Gold, you based that primarily or partially on your dad. And you've mentioned your mom for this one. Is it fair to say there's a lot of your mom in this character?

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, there is. And I don't know how much I noticed it until I've talked about it in, in post since we made it. But my mother is a beautiful, a true example of the value of denial if you truly commit to it. And I don't mean being sensitive to crisis. I don't mean be foolish. I don't mean being a foolish optimist. I mean, absolutely, if there's something that you don't, if, if, if somebody doesn't, doesn't take your favor, instead of going off and going, oh, what was wrong with me? Oh, my God, was it me? You know, you make up your mind, that's, that's their problem.

• 17:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Boom, to the next. If you don't like a condition, part of the, part of getting through it, well, even if it's medical, yeah, you may need to go do the medical steps to, to take care of yourself. But part of getting over it is the mind going, I, I don't have this. I, I, I will get, I will get, I'm getting past it because I don't have it. And it's, and she has, she does it to an extent where it's more than an intellectual exercise. She actually.

• 17:57Josh Horowitz?

  Buys into the story.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  She beat two types of cancer on aspirin. I, some people, you may hear this and go BS, bullshit, that doesn't make sense. I'm telling you, that's what I said too. And when the doctor said it's gone, I'm like, how? She didn't take any of the medicine?

• 18:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I don't know. So, and she also is this, look, when we would grow up, you know, one, if me or my brother showed up and we thought we were the, came home and thought we were the cock of the walk or my middle brother flipping his hair back after he won the 100 meter dash, thought he was all that, we, walking on his toes, as my mom would say. My family was great at finding your Achilles heel and just jabbing it until you were on the ground, crying for mercy and cried uncle. And then we lifted you up, hoisted you in the air and celebrated you. Said, welcome back. And at the same time, if you were ever insecure, if you were down, if you were not feeling

• 18:52Speaker 01

  confident about yourself, my family and my mom especially would bring you to the center of the circle and start celebrating every asset and attribute you got. That was, that was original about you and awesome about you. And it, you, you didn't, it wasn't a discussion.

• 19:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  It was a revival. And all of a sudden, she would, she and the family would hoist you in the air and, and, and get you back to yourself and seeing yourself in a great light and then drop you down to the ground and go, there you are. Don't forget that.

• 19:26Josh Horowitz?

  Made it all more sweet.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Don't ever forget that.

• 19:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  And she just did that out of, and that's one of the reasons she was a great mother. So anyway, that sense of community and family and bringing, my whole family is always.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Had an affection for the underdog. And I think back of the only fights I got in in high school were when I was taking up for the underdog.

• 19:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Whether it was a little black guy Ronnie who had a big fro and they called him a runt and kind of fight defending him. Whether it was Betty, who was the one Gothic lesbian in our school who I was friends with and everyone was pick up. Those are the only fights I got in and I got it from my dad and my mom. Boy, if you were an underdog, we loved you. We're gonna go, okay, watch this. We protect the underdog.

• 20:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  And, and, and actually, I've gone through my whole career with whatever success I've had. And I know for me, I work better believing I'm an underdog. Even if.

• 20:20Josh Horowitz?

  With a little resistance, even if seemingly it seems like.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Even if I had to create my own resistance, you know what I mean?

• 20:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Um, and I hope to keep doing that with, cause if you don't, you can get complacent. Now, what can happen if you, with the underdogs, you can, the, the, the antithesis of it is, well, but do you lose confidence?

• 20:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  No, no, there's something actually great about going, no, I'm not of the populace. You know, I'm not on, on top. If I think I'm on top, that's a mortal thought. I need to think immortally. No, I'm still an underdog. You know what I mean? Uh, and my mom was, my mom was great. She used to say, we go out to a dance or something, have a date and be nervous. And she, she'd see us, she'd see we're nervous. She was like, look, here's what you can do tonight. You're not gonna walk in that place like you wanna buy it. You're gonna walk in that place like you own it. Bop and give you a slap in your head and be like, damn right. Okay, I'm going, I'm going, mom. She was wonderful at that. And that's a lot of Ms. I, there's a lot of Ms. I in that side of my mother.

• 21:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it struck me. So I'm looking, I always, you know, up for these kinds of conversations. You'll get the arc of the career and the dates and everything. Maybe this has been brought up to you, but we're almost like 30 years to the day as we tape this. July 24th, 30 years ago was the day A Time To Kill came out.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Really? Okay.

• 21:33Josh Horowitz?

  That August is the famous Vanity Fair cover, the Herritz cover, which I always think about as kind of like, there he is. There's already.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Was it the Herritz cover? Was it on, was it on, was it Vanity Fair?

• 21:43Josh Horowitz?

  I think so.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Was that sitting in the truck?

• 21:45Josh Horowitz?

  I think so.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:48Josh Horowitz?

  I think that's it.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Herbert's flew in on a helicopter to that photo shoot about an hour after I arrived. I remember that. I was like, oh, oh, that, oh, the big dog's here. I thought I was a big dog. No, the big dog shows up after I get here and in a helicopter. Excuse me. I didn't, I didn't get a helicopter.

• 22:04Josh Horowitz?

  You got your helicopter, I'm sure. Um, 26 then, I mean, how do you think you handled? I mean, you talked, you talked about kind of the no's turning into yeses overnight and the, and the, you know, the fame. But like in retrospect, how do you think you handled that period of your life in terms of?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  In retrospect, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty proud of how I handled it.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  I had times where,

• 22:31Speaker 01

  you know, I smashed the champagne glass in the name of the mendacious caviar and this highfalutin bullshit. Everyone's, which was clumsy of me.

• 22:41Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Cause I partially imposter syndrome, partially, I was kind of right, but still you don't need to, just cause I was right, don't need to go prove it.

• 22:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Know your zone. I didn't know my zone sometimes. I was also what I think quite boring in certain places, but it was, it was a survival mechanism.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  I wasn't, things happened so fast and so, so frequently that I didn't, there were times I didn't, I wasn't feeling where I was. I was having trouble being present. I'm much more present, like sitting here with you now. I couldn't be off the cuff and giving anecdotes and swinging and saying, yeah, we're live, we don't need to edit. Then there were certain times I was like, be a gentleman, don't lie. I would like just give myself, and, and I gave some interviews. I was like, geez, that's a boring interview. But you did, okay, but you didn't, you didn't put your ass fair up a flagpole.

• 23:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Okay. You know what I mean? Okay.

• 23:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  It's fine. That's your work. And, and I had it. So I held a line and I did a cool thing where I did have the instinct to go spiritually, I gotta get out of here. And I took a couple of trips, which you know, whether it was to South, South America, or whether it was to, to, to Africa on my own.

• 23:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Because I needed to go somewhere where memory could catch up with me. Those trips and I look back, I'm going like,

• 24:02Speaker 01

  that was necessary, invaluable resets that you needed. Because one of the first things was, and I've written about it, you don't meet strangers anymore. The world's a mirror.

• 24:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  And people come up and they say, sorry about Ms. Hud. And you go, number one, who are you? Number two, didn't even introduce yourself. Number three, how'd you know I had a dog? Number four, how'd you know her name was Ms. Hud? Number five, how'd you know she had cancer? You just jumped five deep into my life on howdy. Whoa. You know, so it would feel like you'd feel kind of trespassed upon, um, or I did. So, you know, that, that, that took a while. That wasn't, that wasn't their fault. You know, but it took a while to get, get, get the feet on the, get the, feel gravity. At the same time, be able to accept, no, you're in a really privileged position. Let's take advantage of this. So I look back and I think I handled it pretty well because I didn't derail.

• 24:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Um.

• 25:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I, I mean, you never like seemingly from the outside looking in, like went off a cliff. Like the worst you did was like, you know, it's the famous, like the bongo drums, like, and that's just a silly fun story. That's just.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Well, that was kind of a, a good one.

• 25:14Josh Horowitz?

  That's a, I mean, that's a classic.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  That's been done since and before.

• 25:17Josh Horowitz?

  One of one.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:19Josh Horowitz?

  Naked bongo drumming? Come on. Iconic.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  I framed that ticket.

• 25:25Josh Horowitz?

  How loud were you playing to get a voice complaint? Like the.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Well, I was playing loud, quite loud. I also had my window open.

• 25:33Josh Horowitz?

  There's a mistake.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  And that neighbor that had just moved in to town, mind you.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  We should say forgive them, but let me tell you, the whole neighborhood got up on their ass going, you don't call that cops.

• 25:48Josh Horowitz?

  Come on.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  You throw a, a brick over the wall or something, or, or, or a hammock and just say, hey, shut up. Well, you turn it down, but you don't call that cops.

• 25:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Embarrass the hell out of them.

• 25:59Josh Horowitz?

  Did you immediately have a sense of humor about that at the time? Or did that feel like a real like?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Well, here's a great my mom, Ms. I moment.

• 26:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  I was raised where you don't, it's, it's not as much about the crime. It's about, did you get caught?

• 26:13Josh Horowitz?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  And you should feel a little bit of shame for getting caught. Cause you didn't, you didn't, that's, I remember my parents being like, look, it's not even what you did. It's the fact that you were lazy enough to get caught.

• 26:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  That you didn't respect me enough to try and get away with it better.

• 26:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Shame on you. Yeah. Here's the discipline. Well, same thing with that particular like crime. I remember everything was fun and games. Then I woke up in the morning after nine hours in the jail and, um, started to have the blues because I had gotten caught and I was in a jail and I was like, I was not raised to be in a jail. I had no problem with what I did. And I don't think my mom, dad got any problem with what I did. But I got caught.

• 26:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  And I'm not supposed to be here. Damn it. And I started getting the blues and I had my one phone call and I called my mom. Mom, and I told her what happened and her first words out of her mouth were like,

• 27:10Speaker 01

  those mother, they came in here, who the hell do they think they are down in there? I know you've done that before. You'll play, you'll play naked bongos on the funny weed, getting in your birthday suit in your life. And don't you ever fucking not do that. I've done that before. Pump me up above the law. Just like, you hold your head high.

• 27:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  You hold your head high. That's their problem. But I, and I remember I had the decision, you got a car over here to the right that's in the garage. You can get out in private and leave precinct. Or over here to the left, there's a whole bunch of reporters out there. And you're gonna be on camera and make a tape. And if I wouldn't have talked to my mom on that phone call.

• 27:52Josh Horowitz?

  You would have gone up the other side.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  And instead I talked to her and I went left, went outside, made a funny quip about nine hours in the cell, something's, something silly about I've had better mattresses or something. Everyone chuckled. All of a sudden the, the bubble was burst. Someone handed me a T-shirt that had already been made that night that said bongo naked with a character picture of me running across well, naked bongos and everyone got the joke. And everyone was like, what a great ticket.

• 28:19Josh Horowitz?

  Perfect. You made the most of it.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:21Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, some random stuff. I mean, uh, there's no segue to this, but I want to talk about some films. Um, we've never talked a lot about Interstellar, but Interstellar, which was huge at the time, has only grown. Like, I mean, you see, I'm sure you feel.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  10 year anniversary.

• 28:35Josh Horowitz?

  Like people now acknowledge Interstellar as like a modern classic.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  It's hidden icon status and it was around, just after that 10 year anniversary and since.

• 28:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  I still now, and that was what, two years ago, three years ago? That's 70% of the people that come up to me, Interstellar. And all of them say that the, the, the general line is, I've seen it four times.

• 28:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  It's my favorite movie and they don't stop and they don't slough it off and say it. They stop me. Similar to what they do with Greenlights, the book, those fans stop me, put their hands on my shoulder, turn me around and make sure I'm looking at them. And tell me, this is what it meant to me. Interstellar fans are doing that now.

• 29:17Josh Horowitz?

  How did you reach that level of intensity of, I mean, that now iconic scene? It's like learning that, you know, 23 years have gone.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:25Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, that's.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  So that was a Monday morning. We had just moved locations to a lot. I think we were on Sony lot and we had just moved locations to LA.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  And sometimes when you move a location, you gotta go get your stuff straight. If you've got big, important scenes coming up, it's like, no, I want to be kind of in my groove. But I remember I had a, had a, had a really kind of quiet weekend with myself. I knew I had that scene coming up and I just wanted to make sure I'd,

• 29:55Speaker 01

  I didn't have any tension. I want to be relaxed and be able to receive. And I remember showing up that morning, first, first up, I walked set. And, uh,

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Nolan says, all right, we're gonna rehearse it and play the video. And I, and I remember having this feeling, the same thing I did with Jill Schumacher in A Time To Kill before the final summation. We walked on that set. He goes, okay, we'll rehearse it. You can, you can ease your way into it. And I, and I didn't even look at him. I was like, uh-uh.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  And he goes, okay, we're gonna do close ups first. Cause I was in, I was

• 30:31Josh Horowitz?

  You were ready.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  It was in his own ready and that what you see in there was the first take.

• 30:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  In Time to Kill. On Interstellar, when I said, I think I handed a note to Nolan that said, see you, please. See you.

• 30:41Josh Horowitz?

  Close up.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Close up. And he goes, okay. And then they send someone else goes, okay, well, we'll just run the video back. And I'm, mm. Meaning I don't want to see it.

• 30:49Josh Horowitz?

  You're already there.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Well, I want to react to it.

• 30:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I got you. Yeah.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  All right. Because that's where I was, came up with that understanding, that line that's very true, actually, is everything after take one is acting. Everything after take one is fraudulent.

• 31:05Josh Horowitz?

  But take one is

• 31:05Speaker 01

  And we can improve

• 31:06Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  A performance through

• 31:08Josh Horowitz?

  That's where technique comes in and

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  But the first time, in any scene, the first time you see something, you don't know what's coming. If you're relaxed and can react to it, that's pure. That's as pure as it can get. Then take two, take three, you try to keep from anticipating what you're gonna see, but you still have an idea in the back of your head. You're going, well, this is comes up.

• 31:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  So the first time it's happening in real time and that take is that is first take.

• 31:34Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  So it came on.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  They were older. It was going through my head about my own children. What if I had

• 31:44Speaker 01

  left and for them it was 30 years and for me it was

• 31:51Speaker 01

  whatever. Three weeks.

• 31:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Whatever the timeline is. Oh, my gosh, what a, what a, what a pain. What a regret, what a, what a sense of, of loss. And it was my choice.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Oh, what it, oh. And there it comes. Oh, I don't want to, I don't want to. And then that's what, I just, I just, it, it was a, it was a reaction. It was not a, a plan. It's just be intent and that's, that's the, it's the first take.

• 32:21Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 32:28Speaker 05

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• 33:41Speaker 06

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• 33:59Josh Horowitz?

  We've talked in the past about some films that famously you auditioned for, maybe you turned down. I want to run through a few if you'll indulge me.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:05Josh Horowitz?

  Some, some, we've heard these stories before so we can, but there's some I haven't heard you talk about. So Titanic, you famously talked about auditioning, thinking you actually

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Thinking I had it. And Cameron said, I had it. Some, did he say somewhere?

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know that. Maybe.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  I've been told many times, hey, can't believe you turned down Titanic. I'm like, I didn't turn down Titanic. And they're like, well, Cameron said. And, and, and I said, I never got offered that part. And if I did, I need to find that agent.

• 34:33Josh Horowitz?

  This is a major mixed signal.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  That agent owes me money. Um, no, I never got offered that. So whatever that mixed story is, I had heard that. The, the truth is, I never got offered that. I did have a great, oh, what I thought, it was a great audition. The producers were there. I had it with Kate. Um, I walked out of there feeling like, I'm thinking about that role.

• 34:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  And did not.

• 34:53Josh Horowitz?

  Was it tough for you to see the film when it came out and it was the biggest film of all time?

• 34:57Speaker 01

  No, no, I, I, I'm pretty quick to go

• 35:01Josh Horowitz?

  Switch it off, onto the next.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Hey, that did all I could.

• 35:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  What's tough

• 35:07Speaker 01

  is if I had gone in, had a shitty audition and left going, ah, damn it, I could have.

• 35:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  And then not gotten it.

• 35:13Josh Horowitz?

  But you did all your

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Then I'd have been wondering, but I went in, we had a good audition and, and did all I could.

• 35:18Josh Horowitz?

  You, you have said you turned down LA Confidential, which was a regret, same time period.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  It is. Curtis Hansen, so I remember this. Curtis Hansen came to see me in Canton, Canton, Mississippi on the set of Time to Kill. And I'm in the middle of shooting Time to Kill. It's my only world and responsibility at that time. I don't know that I was able to give that script the justice. And I still have this to this day. It's why I'm a very slow reader.

• 35:44Josh Horowitz?

  Cause once you're in the job, you're done. It's not.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  And I have to, and I also, if you send me a script today, doesn't mean I, it may have time tonight.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  But if I've got certain stuff going on in my life, I know that I'm not going to give that script justice if I return. I need to go.

• 35:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Especially I still, still this way. I don't, I don't, when I write even, I don't know how to schedule. Oh, I'll write from one to four in the afternoon. If I have a curfew on the backside of something, oh, I have to stop with that. I don't give the justice to the thing that I'm doing. That's why when I go write, I go away, I give myself three weeks.

• 36:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  And you don't have to call, you don't have to go to, you can eat, drink, sleep whenever you want. Night is day, day is night.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Get the fever and, and, and go for it without a curfew.

• 36:30Josh Horowitz?

  Got you.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Um, and so I have to pick my spots.

• 36:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Mud is that way. I'd read that script and turn, and turned it down.

• 36:36Josh Horowitz?

  You just didn't read it in the right time.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  And it wasn't, it wasn't the right time.

• 36:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  And I had enough people close to me that go, man, I'm telling you, there's something here. And I went and got my mind free and looked at it. I was like, oh, wow, there it is. Uh, Killer Joe is that way. Turn that down. Thought it was gross. Penny Allen, my great mentor was like, gross. She goes, it's hilarious. I was like, funny? What are you talking about? She was like, oh, you don't get the meter.

• 36:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  You're not getting Tracy Let's meter. I read it again. All of a sudden I'm guffawing, laughing going, oh, this is really funny and absurd. Um, so picking things and to read at the right time and the right frame of mind is very important to me. And I don't believe I was at that time. Plus I had a hunch that with success, if I just keep concentrating on this, it'll give it the best time to kill. It'll give it the best chance to succeed. And that will maybe bring other things. So I felt like I might be trespassing

• 37:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  To hop out and make a plan to commit to something down the line outside of a time to kill.

• 37:31Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, at that time.

• 37:33Josh Horowitz?

  In more recent times, I spoke to Craig Mazin about this. You did talk about The Last of Us with him.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:38Josh Horowitz?

  Was that something you seriously considered or did you not feel like?

• 37:42Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I did. I did. That was also, I wasn't really, uh, acting at that point. I think that was part of when, when I was

• 37:51Josh Horowitz?

  Probably, yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Now I was doing more writing and, and looking at, you know, leadership roles in, in life and stuff. Um, it was really good. I was really excited. Um, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a huge TV watcher, but still series were still, you know, and it pulled off, we pulled off a real coup with, in, with

• 38:17Josh Horowitz?

  True Detective.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Of course. At a time when series were not something that actors like myself or Woody Harrelson would hop over and go do. And that one succeeded in, in a, in a real royal fashion. Um, Last of Us was really good. I just

• 38:35Speaker 01

  it wasn't for me at the time. I don't know if, you know, I don't know what would have been

• 38:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  For me at the time. I guess that, yeah, the first thing that came across was Rivals that I went like, oh, this is extremely particular.

• 38:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Um, it's a, it's a, it's a movie. It's one movie that a series you do have to consider. I do consider.

• 38:54Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Well, you want this to succeed. Well, in success, this is something you'll be doing for years and years and years. Do I want to, you know, uh, for that to be the case in success.

• 39:08Josh Horowitz?

  You, you mentioned True Detective, which I mean, since, I mean, it's such a phenomenon at the time and people have always talked, oh, would there be more? I mean, Nick Pizzolato last year actually said that he spoke to you and Woody in recent times about doing something else with those characters.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:22Josh Horowitz?

  How seriously are you guys considering?

• 39:23Speaker 01

  We still talk about it and he's got ideas and we've talked about a few. And, uh, you know, if he, if he, if he, if he wants to go get his head and heart and spirit in the place to

• 39:37Speaker 01

  to put something down. Cause he, he, he was in, he went to a place when he wrote.

• 39:42Josh Horowitz?

  I can imagine. I've seen it. I can tell.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  And that, that, that was on another frequency. Um, and had such ident, clear identity. Um, that was special. Now, you know, you also, I'm not the biggest fan of doing sequels. I've been

• 40:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Talked about, you know, I mean, I wasn't the biggest fan. I was, we had talked about being in the next Magic Mike. I was like,

• 40:10Speaker 01

  not that Dallas that I laid down. He was a one of one.

• 40:14Josh Horowitz?

  Put while you're

• 40:15Speaker 01

  I don't, you know, um, and then also, yeah, I'm not, sometimes in sequels, what they'll do

• 40:23Speaker 01

  is they, they jump to the, you know, Rick and I've talked about days, we talk about Wooderson, you know, there's, there's different characters we're talking about, oh, do you bring back? But if the first one worked really well, then that second one better be its own thing. I'm going through that with, with Greenlight. I'm working on it. I've been working on a second book for a while.

• 40:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  But will it be a, in the family of Greenlights? Probably. But do I want it to be a souffle of the same eggs? No.

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it needs, I need, I need, I need the person to believe, whether it will be or not, I need the person to believe it will be a one of one on its own.

• 41:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  And yes, could it be connected to Greenlight? Sure. But would it live on its own and is it worth, worthy to put out for me and for anyone else in the, on the, on that, on that measure? I feel the same way about, about sequels. And a lot of things what they'll do in sequels, which always gets me. They, they, they, they'll put the character that goes sort of into a bit of, a bit of retirement.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  I'm like, I don't want to go out on reti- I'm not looking to retire.

• 41:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  I think, I think the characters I play, I'm like, no.

• 41:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you don't want to see Wittersson like a sad sack.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  No, and not, and especially, don't give him any like, regret.

• 41:43Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:45Josh Horowitz?

  Double down on who he was, it is.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  That line you originally wrote, that's what I love about High School Girls. I could always say the same age. Remember, he didn't say that as a joke. He took a step out to the edge of the curb and said it to the universe like, "Thank you for this wonderful perspective you've given me, because I have shit figured out." You know, let's, who is that now? You know, is he running a, a, a local community radio station with three redheaded twin daughters? Maybe, but he's still

• 42:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Moving the same way, and you know what I mean? There's a lot of things he's still doing the same that you're going, "Ah, thank you. Thank you, that's what we love about you." That individualism, that, that's why I love the movie Hud.

• 42:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  He walked that path all the way through. He had no big character arc. The world changed all around him and he stayed consistent. I, there's a certain allure and, and, and honor that I have in seeing people like that. Even if they're despicable sometimes.

• 42:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  I still sit over and applaud and go, "Wow, and you can still sleep at night?" I'm jealous.

• 42:48Josh Horowitz?

  Now, I came in wanting the True Detective sequel, now I want the Witters- now I want Rick to get on the horn.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Well, I mean,

• 42:56Speaker 01

  but they better be good, because the first ones were

• 42:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Had, were a bit of a lightning bolt, you know, of originality.

• 43:02Josh Horowitz?

  They keep coming to you for like superhero stuff, you know this. You've like, you turned on Guardians famously. Supposedly Green Lantern was more recently, a couple of years ago, they talked to you maybe about that. Um, and those are only the ones I know about. I mean, there's probably a ton like-

• 43:15Speaker 01

  There's been, there's been a few, yeah.

• 43:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and it's just sort of like, not, not your thing. Again, it has to like, be the right person, right time.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not against it, I just, I think my sensibilities and my curiosities are

• 43:30Speaker 01

  and this is, I'll go back to my writing process sometimes and I, and I, and I I love to

• 43:39Speaker 01

  think early of characters, I'd see them very animated, live action.

• 43:43Josh Horowitz?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Like, they can do things that are not, don't logically add up

• 43:49Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  in the moral, in the mortal world. And I'm, I have a reverence for them, they're upon high, right, they're animated.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  But as I get to know them and believe in them,

• 44:02Speaker 01

  they come back to live action.

• 44:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  And I go,

• 44:06Speaker 01

  "Oh, you're, you're a superhero."

• 44:08Josh Horowitz?

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  "Oh, I'm a superhero." "Oh, look at the superhero shit we do." And that's about belief.

• 44:14Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  And that's the journey, so, so I always end up coming back to, so I'm always looking at animated, I'm going like, "I don't need a cape and spandex for that."

• 44:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  What's the story of pulling that off with real flesh and blood?

• 44:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  That's just, that, I don't know, that intrigues me more.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Or what's, what's, what's, what's that? You know, um, we talk about Amzai, he's a mythological, legendary character.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? But he's not wearing a cape. Got a mantle in around his shoulders.

• 44:44Josh Horowitz?

  He's got, he's got the prop, he's got the name, he might as well be a superhero.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And, you know, believing you won

• 44:54Speaker 01

  is over half the battle.

• 44:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. Here's a super random one. One of my favorite conversations in recent years was, I talked to the great Gary Oldman, and we had a laugh, we had a long conversation.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Tiptoes?

• 45:05Josh Horowitz?

  We talked about Tiptoes.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  One of the great trailers of all time.

• 45:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's the role of a lifetime, I don't know if you've heard.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Oh, I've heard. Have you heard? If you haven't seen the Tiptoes trailer, please, give yourself a gift today and just watch the trailer.

• 45:20Josh Horowitz?

  It's, it's a thing of beauty. I don't know, but I haven't, I've, I've honestly never seen the film. I don't know how-

• 45:25Speaker 01

  You didn't see the film?

• 45:25Josh Horowitz?

  I haven't seen the film. Should I give it a look? Did it come out? What's your, uh, rating?

• 45:30Speaker 01

  It's worth seeing, but you've got, you've got-

• 45:32Josh Horowitz?

  I've never heard your voice go up like that.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Well, what I'm saying is, you've got,

• 45:37Speaker 01

  is, I don't know, I, I think the trailer may be better.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  The movie, the movie works a lot, Matthew Bright, he was such an anarchic, wild love story that was so carny and out, it's so, it's wonderful soap opera.

• 45:53Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you kind of love that that's on the resume, that you have like-

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:57Josh Horowitz?

  Something like that, that's just such a curiosity.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Let's go back to an earlier time in my career. I remember certain, um, managers, agents, people in the know in the industry, after Time to Kill came out, that were like,

• 46:11Speaker 01

  you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre came out.

• 46:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  It held it.

• 46:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right, of course they did, yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Very smart of them.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  Put that name of, of the title now, yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Me, Renee Zellweger, let's now the time for that. And there was like, let's, certain, certain people were like, well, let's, maybe we should just skip by this.

• 46:31Josh Horowitz?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  And I'm like,

• 46:34Speaker 01

  "Why?"

• 46:35Josh Horowitz?

  It's back to mom. Walk out in front, don't go in the side entrance.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Come on, man, I'm not afraid of that, that's, that's part of how I got here.

• 46:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  And it stands on its own. I've got friends that still think that's my best performance I've made, I've had. Kirk Bruce, buddy from Longview, wrote me the other day, it was like, "Texas Chainsaw Massacre, man, still the best role you ever played."

• 46:54Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, so that, you tiptoes it, you don't,

• 47:00Speaker 01

  I don't know, man, I mean, you go through, you can, you can, you can, you can organize and make plans about, you know, and yes, I get publicity and marketing and I love it, and I understand knowing your zone and when to, when to feign and when to fake and when to just admit it, but there's certain, you know, for the work we do, I'm quite, I happen to be quite proud of certain things that may not be deemed of a, "Oh, well, that's, well, but, okay, great, no shit."

• 47:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  But that's what it did and it helped get here. I'm not gonna be embarrassed about it, because it's not looked at as upon the higher ilk of, of great art or something. It is what it is and it, and it, and it was something.

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  You know, um, so to try and hide and weave and deny certain things in the past that we did,

• 47:51Speaker 01

  that could be a hell of a lot more work.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  And I think people, I think everyone gets it.

• 47:57Josh Horowitz?

  Appreciate it, yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  And we could use more of the world going like, even our fail, even shit we, we fail on.

• 48:01Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Just go, when we, we actually admit we failed, all those people that we thought were gonna go na na na boo boo, go, "Ha, me too."

• 48:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember the last audition of your career? That must have been a long time ago, I would imagine.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  I wanna say it wasn't that long ago. I always feel like I'm auditioning. And I always tell myself, I'll, I'll, I'm ready to audition whenever, whenever you're ready.

• 48:30Josh Horowitz?

  I imagine it happens with a director you want to impress, someone that you really want to work with, even just a meeting, like you, you-

• 48:36Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what I do remember. I remember what was, because some meetings are auditions.

• 48:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  I remember an audition I failed. Damn it.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Preveered the Coen Brothers. I always wanted to work with them. Never worked with you guys yet.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  And I had a, I had a dinner set up with the Coen Brothers and John Malkovich, just the four of us.

• 48:59Josh Horowitz?

  Come on.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Come on, right?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I had such a reverence and was so impressed that I was not involved in the conversation. And they knew each other well and stories were going on. And you know that time when you're nervous and you're hearing stories going on, but then you kind of quit listening, because you start thinking about like, I need to get a word in here somewhere, maybe say something witty, say something clever. When I find the gap, so you're not quite listening, you're not quite present, because you're anticipating ahead, and then you get that gap and you're trying to hit it, but, but, but, but then you get, you're so happy that you got the gap and now all the eyes are on you and all of a sudden you start to stutter and you go like, "Oh shit, I lost my train of thought, I forgot." And, and, and you tell, start to tell a joke and you get the first exact second and you forget the punchline, and then you try to slough it off, like maybe they didn't notice I missed the punchline there, and everyone goes,

• 49:47Speaker 01

  "Oh, okay," and goes back to the conversation. It was one of those.

• 49:51Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  And tried to tell you, Coen Brothers, I sent y'all green lights, because I know you like some stories in that. You would love the Australian story, which we ought to make together. So this is my call out to go, I still like to work, because I, I left that meeting going, "Damn it." I blew it.

• 50:08Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  And they, they never came to me for certain things, that I was like, "I wish you would have come to me for that."

• 50:14Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you, you use me often for manifestations. This is manifesting Coen Brothers today.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm looking right down the pipe. I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to you, Joel and Ethan.

• 50:22Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough, okay. I have to let you go soon, so a couple of quick things. I do this with actors that have amazing filmographies. I'm gonna challenge you, Matthew. You're gonna pick the best movie of your career. I'm gonna bracket style, like a, like a, like a final eight. Okay, so first up, we've got, these are all gonna be tough, Days Then Confused versus Lincoln Lawyer.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Oh geez.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Lincoln Lawyer's big in Cleveland, man. Lincoln Lawyer's got me out of a couple traffic tickets in Cleveland.

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, is that right?

• 50:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Different films.

• 50:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Know in your zone.

• 50:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's Cleveland.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Wedding Planner got me out of a major, major mess up in Mexico one time.

• 51:02Josh Horowitz?

  Give it to me before we go.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  I'm pulled in one late night and I'm crossing the border going way down south and I get pulled over and it's it's one of those pull overs. Where they noticed me, gringo in the truck, nice truck. This is that dress down and I'm like, oh geez, get the wallet out. Here we go. And it was going down. And then I brought up.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  You guys know Jennifer Lopez? I'm like, ah, and I was like. Ever see Wedding Planner? Like, ah, and I was like, huh? Huh? Yeah, it was me like, oh, what the? And they went off and we ended up taking pictures together and they let me go.

• 51:46Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Sahara works in Oregon with Highway Patrols.

• 51:50Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Um.

• 51:52Josh Horowitz?

  Where does Tiptoes work?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Lawyer's good in Cleveland, as I said.

• 51:55Josh Horowitz?

  Tiptoes help you anywhere?

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Tiptoes is, where's Tiptoes? No, Tiptoes has yet to help me anywhere. But there's a select few out there that if we come across, I'm sure I'll get amnesty.

• 52:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so Dazed and Confused versus Lincoln Lawyer. Sorry, man.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  I mean, look, Dazed is my first.

• 52:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I got it. I got it. Magic Mike versus Mud?

• 52:15Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  I mean, look. I love, I love Magic Mike. I still love the start. I've told you the story that Soderbergh told me. I was like, God, you gotta give me one. He offers me the role, but I'm like, I don't know what it is. And he goes, I'll get you a script in a couple of weeks. And I'm like, well, don't let me wait two weeks, man. Give me one line for my mind to just imagine. He goes, well, this guy Dallas, he's pretty connected to UFOs, man. And I was like, what a great piece of direction, because my, the lid was off.

• 52:39Josh Horowitz?

  You totally.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  In the imagination. But Mud is one of my favorite films. And again, sentimentally so, because it's the one that I see if my father was still alive, a little alive, he would have come to me at 12 years old and put an arm around me and go, hey buddy, you seen this movie Mud? And I'd be like, no sir. And he was like, oh, we gotta watch it. It's a good one. And when my dad said, it's a good one. Or, she's a good one. Or, he's a good one. It was his highest compliment of something or somebody.

• 53:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:12Josh Horowitz?

  Or it's a mud it is.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, mud.

• 53:13Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, Wolf of Wall Street versus How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Oh geez.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Um, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, the gift that keeps on giving. I think it's probably my favorite rom com I've done. And it's a lot of people love that rom com and, um,

• 53:32Speaker 01

  it still pays the best mailbox money of any film we've ever done.

• 53:36Josh Horowitz?

  Residuals, the whole like.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  By far. By.

• 53:40Josh Horowitz?

  It's probably on like every airline forever. It's probably like just.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Sorority House.

• 53:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Every, when it used to be just DVDs or cable.

• 53:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Every March, because I'd get a big check because Valentine's Day.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Um, versus Wolf of Wall Street? I mean, oh my gosh, then I get to go work with, you know, that whole story. Get to go work with Scorsese and Leonardo and that and you know, which was, was a good scene, turned into a longer, really cool, fun scene.

• 54:13Josh Horowitz?

  Talk about making the most of your screen time. Come on, man.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was. That was a real launchpad character. But I mean, look, the movie for me, for that genre, let me just own that genre, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. That genre, in that genre, that's a real anchor in the, in the rom com genre through, through time.

• 54:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, How to Lose a Guy, we're going, okay. Interstellar, Dallas Buyers Club.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, geez. These are, these are great problems to have, aren't they?

• 54:40Josh Horowitz?

  They are. Speaks well of your career.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  So.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Do, do, do, do, do. Well, look, Dallas Buyers Club.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  I win the Oscar for Best Actor for. That's the penultimate

• 54:58Speaker 01

  standard in our industry for.

• 55:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  We deemed that work the best work by male performer to lead this year. And I got that trophy. Um, I gotta shake hands with that and yell to the late Jean-Marc Vallée.

• 55:14Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 55:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And this only gets harder now, because now it's Dazed and Confused versus Mud.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Oh, we're doing it.

• 55:21Josh Horowitz?

  Bracket, bracket. They're working our way. We're almost there.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Dazed and Confused versus Mud, Mud, Mud. Look dude, I'm gonna go back to the original.

• 55:29Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  I still to this day

• 55:33Speaker 01

  go back to what I learned and how I was treated on Dazed and Confused as the ultimate way to live, be, act,

• 55:45Speaker 01

  engage with other actors in the creative process on that set as the way to do it. I mean, remember, I have a few lines written.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Not only is the director, Richard Linklater, inviting me back each night to see, I think you'd be hanging out here. What do you think? Da, da, da, da, da. Hey, you know, the young, the young freshman wants to go get some beer. You think, what are some kind of guy who'd like loan a little money to get some beer? You would always ask like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, you think he likes the red intellectual? Yeah, he likes all kinds of shit. But the cast, they were handing me stuff. Jason London, Parker Posey, Cole Hauser, Roy Cochrane. They were handing me stuff in the middle of scenes, you know, there's a, we walk out, what's going on tonight? Is there a party? London's like, I don't know, ask this guy. There I am in the middle of the scene. Didn't even know it's coming.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Patience darling, patience. I don't know where that came from, but I mean, they're just lobbing me stuff.

• 56:42Josh Horowitz?

  And the ultimate generosity.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Me into these scenes. And ultimately, that's the way to do it. And as, and, and it's not the way it's always done.

• 56:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  Because we do, we do grow and it's, it's, it's a, whether people like to say it or not, it's a competitive experience.

• 56:58Josh Horowitz?

  Protecting your turf a little bit, right?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you don't, a lot of people don't want to feel that giving to invite someone else in or let someone step and bring them into the light more. You know what I mean? Because they want to protect their own light. And I understand that. But boy, that was wide open in the way they just, even if it was shooting scenes and legendary scenes like in front of the car, talking about Melbeto's, then pop up. I didn't know anything about cars.

• 57:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  We shout that during lunch. You weren't supposed to shoot, but I remember Rick got a camera. We said, Nicky Cat, walk up here, the late Nicky Cat, he just moved on. Uh, walk up and you, what is he talking about his car? And you'd call, you know, you'll give him some shit about his car. Ain't nothing, da, da, da. And I didn't know what, I'm like, I don't know. Everyone thinks I'm a motorhead, but I'm not. Lee Daniels, the DP, he knew about cars. I'm like, well, tell me some stuff. He tells me this pop up pistons, edelbrock intakes. And so I do the take and then after that I'm going like, but where are those things on a car? And he goes, oh, well, these are in the rear. And so the second take is when I go

• 57:56Speaker 01

  and so like I knew where they were. And that's the take we use. We did that in 20 minutes. I remember for whatever reason distinctly, I had a paper plate.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  And I had half a sandwich and some green peas. And I set it down and we started rolling and did that scene. Why I remember green peas on a paper plate? I don't know, but.

• 58:15Josh Horowitz?

  So, so Dazed over Mud?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Dazed, let's go Dazed all the way.

• 58:18Josh Horowitz?

  How to Lose versus Dallas Buyers Club?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Oh geez, Dallas Buyers Club, come on.

• 58:22Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, and then finally, it's Dazed versus Dallas Buyers Club.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Wow, look, I'm gonna go back, look, I mean, I'd like to say Dallas Buyers Club, but I gotta say, again.

• 58:31Josh Horowitz?

  You wouldn't be here.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Let me just go back to the source. Everyone's got a different story about how they got into Hollywood. And I walked in the right bar at the right time, introduced myself to the right guy, Don Phillips. Got kicked out of so said bar and got introduced to Richard Linklater, Redford Park, got him, got it, and then got invited back every single night for three weeks. To where I had a role

• 58:52Speaker 01

  in a film that had come out for after I went back and graduated college and drove out to Hollywood with my U-Haul and 2,000 bucks. That got me meetings with agents.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Didn't get me offers for movies, but got me meetings with like, well, here's some things going on out there and we're gonna get you a read. And first two reads I had in Hollywood.

• 59:15Josh Horowitz?

  Boys on the side?

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Agents of the Oppials.

• 59:17Josh Horowitz?

  There it is.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Got the roles.

• 59:19Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're way over time, but I'm gonna do this last thing I promised really quick. The profoundly random questionnaire at the end of every Happy Side Confused. Dogs or cats for you?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Kind of digging cats right now.

• 59:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, fair enough. What do you collect?

• 59:35Speaker 01

  I collect, um, fingernail clippers and pens.

• 59:40Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Writing pens and fingernail clippers.

• 59:42Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Favorite video game of all time. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What's that golfing one we?

• 59:56Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Spin the.

• 59:58Josh Horowitz?

  I can picture it. I'm in the arcade with you. I got it.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Josh Horowitz?

  We got you. This is very appropriate for this film. Dakota Johnson asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Oh, be in the ass.

• 1:00:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Wise. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  My wife in Papua New Guinea, a shot of her um after on that sunset if we had just had a great afternoon scuba diving.

• 1:00:27Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Last actor you were mistaken for? Does that ever happen to you?

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Shoot, yeah. You know that Halli's guy in 10 Days?

• 1:00:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Picture?

• 1:00:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Well, I got some people that come up and go, you are my favorite sweet home Alabama.

• 1:00:42Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  And I go,

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  wasn't me, but thank you.

• 1:00:48Josh Horowitz?

  So close. Worst note a director has ever given you?

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Good one. Worst note a director's ever given you, given me? No.

• 1:00:58Josh Horowitz?

  Just, they say no to you? No, your.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Not often. It's just that the worst thing you can ever, worst direction you can give an actor is no. You take what they say if you want something different.

• 1:01:10Josh Horowitz?

  Spin it or.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Spin it. Cause you want to make every actor believe that it's their idea.

• 1:01:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  It's part of the great little tricks.

• 1:01:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  You know, it would just make us believe even, and even when I know it was your idea and you just took my idea and turned it and gave it back to me. Don't have to wink. I'll wink at you and go, thank you. And I will be like, yeah, cause we, we, you want, it gives us more power to go feel like we own it.

• 1:01:35Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  And then it's coming from us. Even when it's not, you go, it is as you did. Great job.

• 1:01:40Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Philip Seymour Hoffman.

• 1:01:48Josh Horowitz?

  Best. Movie that makes you sad?

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Movie that makes me sad? Um.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  You know, I just watched this, one of my favorite films the other night and I, and I loved the film. It did make me really sad. I think my whole family cried at the end, but what a beautiful movie of family and brotherhood. Um. The Indian Runner, Sean Penn's writing and directorial debut.

• 1:02:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Not many people are, I've seen that one, but that's a good one.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  You go check that out. Viggo Mortensen, David Morse, Patricia Arquette. Really, really, Charles Bronson's in that, Dennis Hopper's in that.

• 1:02:31Josh Horowitz?

  I don't remember that.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Charles Bronson plays that.

• 1:02:33Josh Horowitz?

  He's a good director.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  And this cast of characters that, that, that Sean found that are probably not actors.

• 1:02:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Just bring color and so, and the writing is so, so good. So much is said with so little.

• 1:02:45Josh Horowitz?

  I remember The Guard 2. Remember the movie he directed with Nicholson?

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's another good one.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  A food that makes me confused? That's a good question. Um. I just had a confusing food. I'm, I'm not a big mixer of the, uh, I still don't get chocolate covered raspberries.

• 1:03:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  I don't get chocolate covered apples. The fruits in chocolate, I can get away with a blueberry, frozen blueberry covered chocolate. Maybe a strawberry, but this, this, the, the two food groups.

• 1:03:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Still confuse me.

• 1:03:20Josh Horowitz?

  Enjoy the fruit.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  I like them on their own better.

• 1:03:22Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, fair enough. We differ here, but other than that, we're on the same page.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 1:03:27Josh Horowitz?

  It's always good to see you, man. You're, you're one of the best out there as both an actor and a storyteller, which makes for a great podcast always. Um, obviously you're welcome anytime. Congrats on the rivals of, I'm Zaya King. Finally, it's out there. Everybody check it out. Support Matthew, Andrew, the great filmmaker behind us. Um, thanks for stopping by, man, as always.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  My pleasure, as always.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

• 1:04:00Speaker 07

  I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't. Should do this by Josh.

• 1:04:07Speaker 07

  Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter, some lighter music here?

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

• 1:04:18Speaker 07

  And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumpstarted all of our love of true crime?

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  I'm Ellen Marsh.

• 1:04:24Speaker 07

  And I'm Joey Taranto.

• 1:04:25Speaker 03

  And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows, all the way to Unsolved Mysteries.

• 1:04:35Speaker 07

  Baby, you will laugh, you will cry, you'll think about true crime in a whole new way. And you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics?

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

• 1:04:49Speaker 07

  And every Monday you can listen to our true crime rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcasts.