Special Episode: 1066 and the Battle of Hastings

Greg Jenner is joined in medieval England by Dr Erin Goeres and comedian Alison Spittle to learn all about the tumultuous events of 1066, famously depicted on the Bayeux Tapestry, to celebrate its arrival in London. The death of Edward the Confessor without an heir in January 1066 kicked off a three-way battle for the English throne. The contenders? His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, who had himself crowned before Edward’s body was cold. His cousin William, already duke of Normandy. And the Norwegian king and famed warrior, Harald. Over the course of just a few short weeks in early autumn, the fight between these three decided the fate of a nation. This episode explores the personalities of these men, taking in Harald’s dramatic life of exile in Constantinople, William’s illegitimacy, and Godwinson’s political credentials – and troublesome little brother, Tostig. And it tells the story of the battles they fought for the throne, at Fulford, Stamford Bridge, and most famously Hastings. And it asks, how accurate is the Bayeux Tapestry, and did Harold really get an arrow in the eye? If you’re a fan of larger than life historical figures, bloody battles and messy medieval family drama, you’ll love our special episode on 1066. The programme is part of Radio 4's Norman Day, marking the arrival of the Bayeux Tapestry in Britain with programmes reassessing the Norman Conquest and its meaning for us today. If you want more on the events surrounding 1066, we’ve got episodes on Emma of Normandy and the Bayeux Tapestry. And for more from Alison Spittle, listen to our episode on the Early Medieval Papacy. You’re Dead To Me is the comedy podcast that takes history seriously. Every episode, Greg Jenner brings together the best names in history and comedy to learn and laugh about the past. Hosted by: Greg Jenner Research by: Dr Jon Norman Mason Written by: Dr Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow, Dr Emma Nagouse, and Greg Jenner Produced by: Dr Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow and Greg Jenner Studio and Edit Producer: Steve Hankey Production Coordinator: Gill Huggett Senior Producer: Dr Emma Nagouse Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Jenner?

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• 1:40Greg Jenner?

  Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me, with the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name is Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today, we are collecting our bodyguard, calling up the cavalry, and galloping all the way back to medieval England, and galloping back again, to learn everything about the events of 1066 and the Battle of Hastings. And joining our ranks on this epic campaign, we have two very special guests. In history corner, she's Associate Professor of Scandinavian Studies at University College London. Luckily for us, she's an expert on Norman and Scandinavian invasions of medieval England. And you might have read her wonderful new book all about 1066, Nineteen Days in Autumn. It's Dr Erin Gores. Welcome, Erin.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

• 2:21Greg Jenner?

  Very excited to have you in. And in comedy corner, she's an award-winning screenwriter, actor, podcaster and comedian. Maybe you've seen her on tour, or heard her BBC Sounds podcast Wheel of Miss Fortune, or her new show, Ignore That Feeling with Fern Brady.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:34Greg Jenner?

  And of course, on the telly, you may have seen her on Nowhere Fast, Celebrity Gogglebox, Richard Osman's House of Games, Pointless Celebrities. But most importantly, you'll remember her from our episode on the medieval papacy. It's Alison Spittle. Welcome back.

• 2:45Speaker 05

  Mad popes for life. I still, I still talk about them. Even last week, I was chatting to someone about them.

• 2:52Greg Jenner?

  It's a lot of people's favourite episode, that one.

• 2:54Speaker 05

  Mine too.

• 2:55Greg Jenner?

  Because some pretty strange history.

• 2:57Speaker 05

  Popes are genuine drag queens to me. I love them.

• 3:00Greg Jenner?

  Dead popes on trial, all the good stuff. So we've done medieval popes, and we're back in the Middle Ages with you.

• 3:06Speaker 05

  Yes, we are. We're still, yeah. And this is, this is a subject I don't know that much about.

• 3:12Greg Jenner?

  Sure. Okay, so you grew up in Ireland?

• 3:14Speaker 05

  I did. I grew up in Ireland, yes.

• 3:16Greg Jenner?

  So what does 1066 mean, if anything?

• 3:17Speaker 05

  1066, I think there was an advertisement for an insurance company. Was it Churchill?

• 3:22Greg Jenner?

  No, no, it's 1066, yeah.

• 3:24Speaker 05

  It's 1066. That's all I remember.

• 3:26Greg Jenner?

  Hastings, I think they're called, yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 05

  Hastings, yeah. Sorry, I got my historical insurance companies mixed up.

• 3:31Greg Jenner?

  I'll let you off. Very niche subject, yeah.

• 3:33Speaker 05

  But yes, 1066 to me is either a passcode for something, or a phone number for an English person. That's all I know.

• 3:43Greg Jenner?

  Fair enough.

• 3:44Speaker 05

  There's a battle.

• 3:45Greg Jenner?

  There is.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:47Greg Jenner?

  There's actually three.

• 3:48Speaker 05

  Someone won?

• 3:49Greg Jenner?

  There's actually three, but, you know, we're going to get into, we'll get into it. We've got lots to cover. So that's, it's good to know that you've got a kind of baseline, which is insurance companies, and then from there, we can build. So, and you're Canadian originally, so, I mean, you've come to this late as well, but...

• 4:02Speaker 04

  I have, I have, yes. I think for most Canadians, 1066 is just a big question mark. So it was a grand voyage of discovery for me.

• 4:09Greg Jenner?

  Lovely.

• 4:10Speaker 05

  What was it like for you?

• 4:11Greg Jenner?

  I love 1066. It's my favourite. I'm very excited.

• 4:17Greg Jenner?

  So, what do you know?

• 4:22Greg Jenner?

  This is the So What Do You Know? This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener or viewer, hello, will know about today's subject. And if you're English, 1066 is the most famous date in all of English history, right? We all know it. 1066 and all that. It's William the Conqueror, it's the Battle of Hastings, Harold with the arrow in the eye, you know, our lovely podcast artwork, right? Maybe you've got tickets to go see the Biatapestry at the British Museum. Maybe you saw the BBC TV drama King and Conqueror. You probably know a lot about it, but maybe not everything. So who were the men who fought for the English crown in 1066? Did Harold really get an arrow in the eye? And why should you never trust your younger brother? Maybe not. Let's find out. Okay, Alison.

• 5:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 5:02Greg Jenner?

  Obviously.

• 5:03Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 5:04Greg Jenner?

  Easy question here. Who was the king before 1066?

• 5:06Speaker 05

  No, don't you dare. So William is the guy after.

• 5:11Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 5:12Speaker 05

  And then the king before that was just Bob?

• 5:14Greg Jenner?

  King Bob.

• 5:15Speaker 05

  King Bob, yeah.

• 5:16Greg Jenner?

  I think he's a minion, isn't he? He's one of the minions, I think. I think that's despicable me. It's a very different genre.

• 5:22Speaker 05

  Is it like Arthur, Merlin, these legendary people that don't really exist before this? Or is it Alfred? Is there a guy called Alfred?

• 5:28Greg Jenner?

  Alfred is a king, but it's a slightly bit earlier, I'm afraid. You're sort of 120 odd years out, but...

• 5:33Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 5:34Greg Jenner?

  But those are, I mean, Alfred wrong, Merlin wrong, Alfred...

• 5:37Speaker 05

  Was there something, the coward? No.

• 5:39Greg Jenner?

  Oh. Well, you're, you're, you've gone with an epithet.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:43Greg Jenner?

  So there is, there's an epithet, there's a nickname.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  There's a nickname.

• 5:46Greg Jenner?

  But he's not coward.

• 5:47Speaker 05

  Okay, the early, the...

• 5:51Greg Jenner?

  Barry the punctual.

• 5:52Speaker 05

  Barry the punctual.

• 5:54Greg Jenner?

  Erin, put us out of our misery.

• 5:56Speaker 04

  No, the epithet is the confessor.

• 5:59Speaker 05

  The confessor. Oh, Edward?

• 6:01Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  Why do I know that?

• 6:03Speaker 04

  Why do you know that?

• 6:04Greg Jenner?

  Why do you know that?

• 6:05Speaker 04

  This feels very Slumdog Millionaire for me.

• 6:09Speaker 05

  Edward the Confessor.

• 6:10Speaker 04

  Edward the Confessor, exactly. Not known as Edward the Confessor in, you know, in his early life, or for some time.

• 6:18Speaker 05

  Because he had to confess.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  He had, well, indeed, he had to grow old and become holy. And obviously, he wasn't that as a young boy. As a young boy, he was the son of King Ethelred, another epithet.

• 6:29Speaker 05

  Ethelred the something.

• 6:31Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:32Speaker 05

  Oh, gosh. Okay, the confessor, the dad? Ethelred the dad?

• 6:38Speaker 04

  Again, a later nickname. Ethelred the unready.

• 6:42Speaker 05

  The unready?

• 6:43Speaker 04

  The unready, which cue many jokes about him not being ready for all the Vikings that attacked his shores, not what it meant.

• 6:49Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  It meant the badly counselled.

• 6:51Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 04

  He was not a very effective king.

• 6:53Greg Jenner?

  The ill-advised, isn't it?

• 6:54Speaker 04

  The ill-advised, exactly.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  I don't like the idea of getting these nicknames. So when did you find it out, these epithets? Like, if I went, hey, Greg, you're Greg the Dead, and you're like, what?

• 7:04Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, it's going to happen. It's going to, you know, that'll be inevitable. Yes, so Ethelred the Unready is the father.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  He's the father, the mum, the mum Emma of Normandy.

• 7:14Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 04

  No epithet.

• 7:16Speaker 05

  And women don't get any epithets, and the wife.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  The wife, Emma the wife. But no, Emma's a great wife.

• 7:20Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 7:21Speaker 04

  So Emma is a fantastic queen of England. She's actually twice a queen of England. Because Ethelred was so unready, if you like, that the Danes came and nabbed his kingdom. So if we think of Knut, the great.

• 7:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  There's another one. So he kicked out Ethelred.

• 7:36Speaker 05

  Wasn't he that great? Didn't he have a fight with the sea?

• 7:38Speaker 04

  He was great.

• 7:39Greg Jenner?

  It's a myth, Alison.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  It's a myth. It's a myth. But anyway, so in fact, Knut's dad, Svein, came, kicked Ethelred out, and the family. So Emma was from Normandy, so across the channel, and she thought, you know what? Might be a bit safer in Normandy. So she and the kids, including Edward, her son, took refuge in Normandy. Knut came, nabbed England again. And Edward basically stayed in Normandy. He grew up in Normandy while this Danish-born king ruled England. And in fact, you know, we talk about the French or the Normans coming in and grabbing England, but actually Edward grew up in Normandy. He, you know, from a very young age, eight, 10 years old perhaps, he effectively grew

• 8:24Speaker 04

  up as a Norman nobleman because of this issue of getting kicked out of his kingdom.

• 8:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  And so when he came back to be King of England, he was just as Norman, really, as English by that point.

• 8:36Greg Jenner?

  He was a bit French.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  He was a bit French. Oh, no.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  That sounds like a slur. He's a bit French.

• 8:41Greg Jenner?

  He's a bit French.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  That's a bit French, mate.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  But in fact, we had, we had two decades, a wee bit more than two decades, of Danish rule in England, while Edward was over in Normandy, growing up. And so when Knut died, there was a bit of a kerfuffle with various sons of his.

• 9:00Speaker 05

  Kerfuffle.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  Indeed, a very bloody one. Trying, you know, ruling, but they were quite short-lived, these sons.

• 9:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 04

  And they had a habit of dying young, which is inconvenient if you want to rule a kingdom. And so eventually, Edward was called back by his mum, who had actually married the Danish king, Knut.

• 9:19Speaker 05

  Wait, Emma?

• 9:20Speaker 04

  Emma.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  Emma, indeed.

• 9:22Greg Jenner?

  She married her enemy.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  This is very coronation shrewd.

• 9:26Speaker 04

  It is.

• 9:27Speaker 05

  This is very George R. Kent and Mike.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  It is.

• 9:29Speaker 05

  Mike, get away from the door. Knut.

• 9:30Greg Jenner?

  I mean, listener, we do have an episode on Emma of Normandy. It's a fantastic episode. It's very funny. It's very confusing. And we probably need to move on from the confusion.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  I know, we do.

• 9:38Greg Jenner?

  So Edward returns to the throne in England. Having grown up in Normandy, he brings some French allies with him.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  He does.

• 9:43Greg Jenner?

  Which is obviously a little bit controversial because they're foreigners. But he's also got a powerful English ally.

• 9:48Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 9:48Greg Jenner?

  And who's that?

• 9:49Speaker 04

  So this is in fact, an ally of his mum, Emma of Normandy. This is the powerful.

• 9:53Speaker 05

  She has a lot of allies.

• 9:53Speaker 04

  Well, you have to, in the medieval period, as a woman, you can't wield a sword. What do you do? You make friends with men who can.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  So he's Earl Godwin, so the Earl of Wessex. And he was the kind of right hand man of the Danish born Knut. And he becomes this kind of kingmaker, a kind of power broker after Knut's death. And a sort of ally of Emma. And so it makes sense to come, if you're Edward, you don't know a lot of people in England. You don't really have a lot of land or money. You don't know a lot of the nobles. It makes sense to have a powerful ally.

• 10:30Greg Jenner?

  Your mum's friend.

• 10:31Speaker 04

  Earl Godwin, your mum's friend. Soon to be, soon to be your father in law. Because Earl Godwin also has a beautiful young daughter. Maybe 15 years younger or so than Edward.

• 10:43Speaker 05

  Oh dear. How old is Edward?

• 10:44Speaker 04

  Well, Edward's 38 by the time he becomes king, right? So.

• 10:48Speaker 05

  Okay, yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  You know, so Edith, Godwin's daughter, Edith. When Edward marries Edith, that's really kind of consolidating that alliance with the family of Earl Godwin.

• 10:59Greg Jenner?

  Yeah. And he's called Edward the Confessor.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 11:02Greg Jenner?

  Because he's always breaking stuff and then apologising. But no, he's a, no, it's a religious thing.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 11:09Greg Jenner?

  So he's a man who, reputationally, has sort of gone down as a man who's so obsessed with God and with faith. He can't even be bothered to rule the kingdom because he's just busy praying.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:18Greg Jenner?

  Isn't that true?

• 11:19Speaker 04

  No, no, that's ridiculous. His redemption is perhaps after death. We know a lot about Edward's life and character from things that are, they're called saints' lives. Because there was a kind of move to portray him as a saint. This is what the confessor is sort of alluding to.

• 11:37Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  After he died, for various kind of political and religious reasons.

• 11:41Speaker 05

  And he never was made a saint.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 11:43Greg Jenner?

  I think he sort of is.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  He sort of is. He sort of is.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  Is he official?

• 11:47Speaker 04

  I don't know if he's official. We have to ask John.

• 11:49Greg Jenner?

  I think he is a saint in the English church, but yeah, we'd have to check it.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  We'd have to check that. It's after 1066. I don't know there.

• 11:54Speaker 05

  Of course, yeah.

• 11:56Greg Jenner?

  I can confirm Edward the Confessor was a saint and in fact is the only king of England to ever have been canonised by the Pope. Although that was 100 years later.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  Wow, the Pope, okay, that's proper.

• 12:06Greg Jenner?

  Proper saint.

• 12:07Speaker 04

  That is a proper saint. Well done. Wow. So he had these allies. He had to have allies. He seemed to have ruled all right, but he did have to rely on these very powerful men, particularly this family. The family of Earl Godwin.

• 12:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  So he did.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  His mum's mates.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  His mum's mates and then his wife's mates. So he was married to Edith for about five years and there's no children. So that's a problem. There's a lot going on. Maybe there's a kind of power play by some of his French and Norman allies.

• 12:40Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:41Speaker 04

  And this is dangerous to Godwin, Earl Godwin, and the family of Earl Godwin.

• 12:46Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  So there's a big falling out. Earl Godwin and his sons sort of rebel. Edward kicks them out. He sends his wife to a nunnery. Get thee to a nunnery.

• 12:57Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 12:58Speaker 04

  But Godwin comes back.

• 12:59Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 12:59Speaker 04

  With men and ships and swords. And he wins effectively. There's not a battle.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  But he kind of, he, there's a bit of armed diplomacy that goes on. And he is reinstated in his position of power. Edith comes back from the monastery and is reinstated in the bedchamber.

• 13:17Speaker 05

  Reinstated in the bedchamber. Beautiful.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  I know.

• 13:20Speaker 05

  This feels very 2am wedding situation of my family who has been around. People have been reinstated in the bedchamber.

• 13:29Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, so we have a king of England with no heir.

• 13:32Speaker 04

  No heir.

• 13:32Greg Jenner?

  His brother in law is a bit of a, a bit of a red flag.

• 13:36Speaker 04

  He's a bit of a red flag, but he's also really useful.

• 13:39Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, sure.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  So Harold, this is our first person, a person of note.

• 13:44Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Harold, so he's the Queen's brother, Harold Godwinson, son of Earl Godwin.

• 13:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 04

  He's a really useful ally. He does remain loyal to Edward after this kind of slight civil war rebellion kind of problem. He helps administer the kingdom with his brother Tostig, his younger brother Tostig. They do a really good job, you know, there's almost 15 years of peace, really, more than 15 years of peace.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  And Edward can kind of adopt a kind of senior statesman sort of approach. He's maybe not out leading the charge. He's not out attacking whales like Harold and Tostich are doing. But he's a kind of elder statesman. He's off performing kingship, wearing the crown, you know, doing all the things. He's chilled and powerful.

• 14:31Speaker 05

  He's like Wayne Rooney nowadays.

• 14:32Greg Jenner?

  Yes, exactly. He's doing podcasts.

• 14:34Speaker 05

  He's too fun. He's coming to nunnery.

• 14:36Speaker 04

  I think he's more of a Beckham kind of.

• 14:38Speaker 05

  Beckham, okay.

• 14:39Greg Jenner?

  And he founds Westminster Abbey, right?

• 14:42Speaker 04

  Exactly. And this is a huge thing. So Westminster Abbey that you can see now is the kind of brainchild of Edward the Confessor.

• 14:50Greg Jenner?

  And then our senior king suddenly falls very ill.

• 14:53Speaker 04

  He does.

• 14:53Greg Jenner?

  Out of nowhere.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  He does.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  They always do that too.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  They're rubbish that way.

• 14:57Greg Jenner?

  And the kind of date is we're right at the beginning of 1066.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  We are.

• 15:01Greg Jenner?

  Because we are, we're like January 4th, 5th, something like that.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  4th or 5th, we're not quite sure. Well, at the end of 1065, December, Edward falls ill and he takes to his bed. And at the very end of December, they're going to consecrate. They're going to have a kind of ceremony to sort of officially open Westminster Abbey. You know, this project which is so close to him.

• 15:22Greg Jenner?

  They've got the giant scissors. They're ready.

• 15:24Speaker 04

  They've got it ready to go. They've got the ribbon. They've got the ribbon. And he misses it because he's so ill. So it's really obvious he's very, very ill.

• 15:31Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 15:32Speaker 04

  January 4th or 5th, he dies, right?

• 15:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  So the first on the scene, in fact, at the deathbed is Harold.

• 15:41Speaker 05

  Harold.

• 15:41Speaker 04

  Harold is there. He is there. He is watching, waiting, probably helping a little bit. Not helping, not helping in that way.

• 15:49Greg Jenner?

  Kill over the face.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  He's just waiting.

• 15:51Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 05

  He's calling up dignitas.

• 15:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. But as Edward lies dying, he says he's, he allegedly says these very important words. He says, Harold, I commend my wife, the Queen, my wife, Edith and the kingdom to your care. Please protect her.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  Did anyone else witness this?

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Well, well, well, this is, this is a question.

• 16:16Greg Jenner?

  I love your suspicious mind. That's great.

• 16:17Speaker 04

  This is very suspicious. Well, this is in a text which was commissioned, if not kind of heavily influenced by Edith, the Queen. And it's a very pro Harold and Tostich version of events. So one, did he say it? Not quite sure. Two, what does it mean? I commend the kingdom to you. Does that mean you're the next king? Or does it mean, could you please look after the kingdom until William gets here?

• 16:43Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 04

  We don't know.

• 16:44Speaker 05

  That's the trouble with a deathbed, isn't it? You can't, you're not really that clear.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  No, no, you're not thinking clearly at that point.

• 16:50Speaker 05

  No, no.

• 16:51Greg Jenner?

  It's Mr Speech. And the amazing thing, of course, is that the funeral for Edward is on the 6th of January.

• 16:57Speaker 05

  January 6th.

• 16:58Greg Jenner?

  January 6th. Obviously, a lot of listeners will be thinking, hang on a minute.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  Hey, I remember that day.

• 17:02Greg Jenner?

  That's a whole other day. It's the funeral, it's also the coronation day.

• 17:06Speaker 04

  Also the coronation.

• 17:07Greg Jenner?

  Harold, he attends the funeral and then what, swaps outfits?

• 17:10Speaker 04

  So he talks to the vestry, puts on a new clothes.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  And yeah, this is great. So how far away was the coronation from the funeral?

• 17:17Speaker 04

  It was in Westminster Abbey.

• 17:19Speaker 05

  Very good.

• 17:20Speaker 04

  So not very far.

• 17:21Speaker 05

  It's a multi, it's a multi-purpose building.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  It's a multi-purpose space. Yes. They take down the black, pop up some red.

• 17:28Greg Jenner?

  Just get the band to change the music.

• 17:31Speaker 05

  Play Weaverspoons when it changes from breakfast to lunch and the vibe changes completely.

• 17:36Greg Jenner?

  So a bit of a party planning nightmare, you know, funeral to coronation, but Harold pulls it off.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  He pulls it off. He does it really well.

• 17:42Greg Jenner?

  He's now king of England.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  He is king of England. And this is a really important thing, right? He's, he is, he's sanctioned by God as king of England.

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  So it is no small thing for someone else to try and come and pinch that title.

• 17:53Speaker 05

  Absolutely. But someone's gonna. But someone's gonna.

• 17:57Greg Jenner?

  That's why you're here, Alison.

• 17:59Speaker 05

  I'd be like, does he end of the podcast?

• 18:00Greg Jenner?

  That's it. Yeah, it's just really straightforward transferal of power, actually. Yeah, lovely.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Peaceful transition. There we go.

• 18:08Greg Jenner?

  So the story goes that he has either claimed power rightfully or he's grabbed power.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 18:14Greg Jenner?

  Depends on our sources, depends on who's telling the story. Okay, which is fine. Let's sort of get to the next stage, of course, which is that. This is a man who's been running the country already. He's been kind of doing it anyway peacefully. His brother's been helping him. Senior King Shor has been off building a lovely church. But really, Harold is the man.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  He knows the job. He's there. He's quite well qualified.

• 18:35Greg Jenner?

  So obvious question, Alison. Do you think he should be the King of England at this point?

• 18:40Speaker 05

  Well, it's been consecrated by God.

• 18:42Greg Jenner?

  Sure.

• 18:42Speaker 05

  Who am I to argue to Edward the Lord?

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't see any, there's no children. He's a close guy to Edward. And like, I do feel like he should have.

• 18:54Greg Jenner?

  So he's your frontrunner?

• 18:55Speaker 05

  I think he's my frontrunner.

• 18:57Greg Jenner?

  Okay.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's just like Will Young versus Gareth Gates.

• 19:00Greg Jenner?

  That's it. There's going to be some other candidates coming along. Because it's going to get.

• 19:03Speaker 05

  Oh, it's Cassettamore, some bombshells.

• 19:06Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, exactly. An ex-boyfriend walks in. No.

• 19:11Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, it's going to get a lot more confusing now. So you might want to start making some notes because, you know, if I do my video game voice, Enter Player Two, because here comes Duke William of Normandy.

• 19:21Speaker 05

  I've heard of this guy.

• 19:22Greg Jenner?

  The storming Norman himself. And he's quite an interesting character. I mean, do you want to give us the kind of the sort of the very quick overview of who he is? Because he's quite an interesting player.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  He's very, very interesting. So he is, so he is the illegitimate son.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Oh, no. Of the Duke of Normandy, right? And so if you remember Emma of Normandy, he's basically Edward's cousin, right? Because of that Norman connection. So he's part of the family. He had a really difficult childhood in that his dad went off on pilgrimage and died when William was only seven, eight years old, which is really difficult. If you're then thrust into the position of being a duke, I have an eight-year-old. I wouldn't want her to be the Duke of Normandy because this is a period in which there's a lot of strong guys with big swords and pointy spears who want lots of land and lots of power. And if there's an eight-year-old kid in the way, they're going to try and kill him. And that's exactly what happens.

• 20:23Speaker 05

  And it'd be so easy.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  Exactly. You think, you think it's easy, but William survived loads of assassination attempts in his childhood. He got kind of shunted around. He got kind of taken out of the castle in the middle of the night and hidden in peasants' huts to save his life.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  So he has a really difficult childhood. He makes it. He has to fight a few very difficult battles against powerful, powerful men, but, but he does it. So, I mean, you could say like, he, he starts off in a difficult situation. He grows up as quite a aggressive, ruthless, kind of ambitious person, you know, arguably, because he's got, it's quite a difficult life to start with and he has to in order to survive.

• 21:06Greg Jenner?

  And he's got a, he's got a name, a nickname. He's William, Duke of Normandy, but his, but his nickname is William the?

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Conqueror.

• 21:13Greg Jenner?

  No.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  No, not yet.

• 21:14Greg Jenner?

  Not yet.

• 21:15Speaker 05

  Oh, right.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  He's not done it yet.

• 21:16Greg Jenner?

  He hasn't, he's not, he's not conquered.

• 21:18Speaker 05

  Billy the Kid.

• 21:18Greg Jenner?

  Billy the Kid. That's cute. That's really nice.

• 21:22Speaker 05

  No, William the unkillable bastard.

• 21:25Greg Jenner?

  William the bastard.

• 21:26Speaker 05

  The illegitimate son.

• 21:28Greg Jenner?

  He's illegitimate, so he's not technically meant to have inherited, but he has.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  Well, no, he has. He's the only son.

• 21:33Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  It's actually fine.

• 21:34Greg Jenner?

  But he's born out of wedlock.

• 21:35Speaker 04

  He's born out of wedlock, but honestly, at this point, at this time in history, it's kind of okay.

• 21:41Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  You know, it's, it's going to become more of an issue.

• 21:43Speaker 05

  It's 1066. Get with the times.

• 21:45Greg Jenner?

  Exactly. It's a modern attitude.

• 21:47Speaker 04

  It's okay. He's the only son.

• 21:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  It's more a statement of fact, really.

• 21:51Speaker 05

  So it's not the bastard.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  It's not like.

• 21:53Greg Jenner?

  Well, it is also the bastard.

• 21:57Speaker 04

  It does become that, obviously.

• 21:59Greg Jenner?

  William the hard bastard. He is absolutely.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  I mean, he is.

• 22:01Greg Jenner?

  He's ruthless, right?

• 22:02Speaker 04

  He's ruthless and he's really good at doing what he has to do as a warlord effectively in the early 11th century.

• 22:09Speaker 05

  I suppose to be a warlord, you do have to be a bit of a bastard.

• 22:13Greg Jenner?

  There's no cuddly warlords, are there? There's no.

• 22:15Speaker 04

  No, exactly.

• 22:17Speaker 05

  William the nice.

• 22:19Greg Jenner?

  He is a warlord, but he's lovely.

• 22:22Greg Jenner?

  So you said he's a cousin, so he's sort of part of the family.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  Yes, he is.

• 22:25Greg Jenner?

  So that's his claim to the English throne.

• 22:27Speaker 04

  That is part of his claim.

• 22:28Greg Jenner?

  Right.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  Part of his claim.

• 22:29Greg Jenner?

  I was going to say, so give us the second part. Give us the more important bit.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  I bet it's God. Did God get involved again?

• 22:36Speaker 04

  Well.

• 22:37Speaker 05

  He did, didn't he? He's such a troublemaker.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  No, so you remember I said, there was that Earl Godwin. There was that rebellion slash civil war kind of argy-bargy that happened in 1051, 52. So there was a little moment in there when Godwin and his sons had left England and Edward kind of thought, oh, right, they're gone. Who can I get to be king after me? Or maybe who can just support me at this difficult time?

• 23:04Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Allegedly, he either sent messages to William, Duke of Normandy, his cousin, who perhaps he remembered fondly for some reason, or he actually had William come himself to England, we're not sure. And allegedly, at that time, he offered the throne to William. So, but that's 1051, 52.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  Oh, right.

• 23:26Speaker 04

  That's a bit, that's quite some time before 1066.

• 23:29Greg Jenner?

  It's 15 years almost, isn't it?

• 23:30Speaker 04

  Yes, so lots can happen.

• 23:32Greg Jenner?

  Does the offer elapse?

• 23:33Speaker 04

  The offer lapsed, well, not for William.

• 23:35Greg Jenner?

  Ah, yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 04

  So William would always look back and say, well, he, he offered me the throne in, in 1051. He can't take it back.

• 23:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 04

  Right?

• 23:42Speaker 05

  But it's been 15 years.

• 23:43Speaker 04

  But it's been 15 years.

• 23:44Speaker 05

  It's been years.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  Exactly. And then in 1066, Edward is dying and he offers it maybe to someone else, to Harold. And in English law, if you're dying and you offer something to someone else, well, that's the kind of final word.

• 23:58Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 23:58Speaker 04

  So Harold is there saying, well, he offered it to me on his deathbed. That's, that's legit. And then William is over there in Normandy saying, no, I, I have a prior claim from 1051. So both of them are kind of saying, but, but it's mine.

• 24:11Greg Jenner?

  But there's also another story, right? So in 1064, give or take.

• 24:16Speaker 04

  There is.

• 24:16Greg Jenner?

  And the Bayeux Tapestry confirms it? Question mark. Harold ends up in Normandy.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 24:22Greg Jenner?

  Okay. And we don't know why.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  We don't know why.

• 24:24Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 24:25Greg Jenner?

  So there's a couple of versions. Do you want to give us your, your possible version? What's he doing in Normandy?

• 24:29Speaker 05

  He's trying some cross on.

• 24:33Speaker 05

  Taking a bit of the culture. Do you know what? He's going on a wine, a wine cruise.

• 24:37Greg Jenner?

  Okay, wine tasting.

• 24:38Speaker 05

  He's getting cheap wines and bringing it back to Britain. There's no tax on it.

• 24:41Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  Booze cruise. There we go. He's on a booze cruise.

• 24:44Speaker 04

  He's on a booze cruise.

• 24:45Greg Jenner?

  He might be. There's stories we have shipwrecked.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  Shipwrecked? He didn't mean to?

• 24:50Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  Possibly the most, he, he might have, you know, just been going over for political reasons.

• 24:57Speaker 05

  Political reasons.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  Some stories, Norman stories, are he was sent by King Edward to kind of reaffirm the fact that William was the chosen heir.

• 25:06Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  The most likely explanation is actually, again, during this argy-bargy of 1051 to 52, Edward had asked for hostages from the Godwin family and he'd then kind of given them to William, as you do. He's kind of done past the parcel with some young boys from the Godwin clan. And maybe Harold is now so powerful in 1064, he wants to go and get them back.

• 25:29Speaker 05

  Right.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  But it goes a bit wrong. He ends up a prisoner, sort of in a.

• 25:34Speaker 05

  Banged up abroad.

• 25:35Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 25:36Speaker 05

  The booze cruise has gone wrong.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  The booze cruise goes very bad. He ends up a prisoner of William and something happens. We don't quite know what, but Harold seems to have made some kind of promise.

• 25:48Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  To William.

• 25:49Greg Jenner?

  The sort of Bayeux Tapestry alludes to him being shipwrecked, maybe captured by Guy of Pontir.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 25:53Greg Jenner?

  William maybe rescuing him.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  Maybe.

• 25:55Greg Jenner?

  And then making him do a promise.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 25:57Greg Jenner?

  On a sacred oath.

• 25:59Speaker 04

  On a sacred, on a reliquary, or in fact, on the Bayeux Tapestry, on two. He's kind of touching, he's kind of touching both of them.

• 26:04Speaker 05

  Oh, right.

• 26:05Greg Jenner?

  So it's a double oath.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  There's a double oath and Harold's kind of there like with his head drooping like, oh, no. Or, you know, oh, you know, my glorious Lord, I, I acknowledge William, my sovereign and my, you know? Or, oh, no, what have I done?

• 26:20Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:21Speaker 04

  We don't know.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  It's a very situationship type thing. Yeah, men need to just commit.

• 26:27Greg Jenner?

  These are two men who are kind of friends, or are they friends? Or are they?

• 26:30Speaker 05

  Will they, won't they?

• 26:30Greg Jenner?

  And actually, to add insult to injury, in the Scandinavian sources that you specialize in, there is a, there is a scandal.

• 26:36Speaker 05

  There's a scandal, absolutely. So here, the story is.

• 26:40Speaker 04

  It's shagging.

• 26:40Speaker 05

  Yes, it is.

• 26:42Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:42Speaker 05

  It is, it is. I'd say that on radio for.

• 26:45Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  Is it?

• 26:47Speaker 04

  There's an illicit love affair.

• 26:48Speaker 05

  Okay, lovely, lovely.

• 26:50Speaker 04

  So, so here the story, again, shipwrecked. He didn't, Harold didn't mean to be there, but he spends the winter, because he, the idea there is he, he travels in the autumn, lots of big storms. He gets shipwrecked in Rouen.

• 27:02Speaker 05

  Oh, shipwrecked.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  And who do you think, of course, is at the court of William? There is also, who do you think?

• 27:08Speaker 05

  And we're talking, we're talking an affair.

• 27:10Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  Yes. Okay. Is it Emma?

• 27:12Speaker 04

  No, that's.

• 27:13Speaker 05

  Edith?

• 27:14Speaker 04

  No.

• 27:15Greg Jenner?

  Matilda.

• 27:16Speaker 05

  Matilda. Shigger, she hasn't been in here yet, has she?

• 27:20Speaker 04

  So this is William's wife.

• 27:21Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  Matilda of Flanders, very, from a very powerful kind of principality.

• 27:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 27:28Speaker 04

  And the Norse sources.

• 27:29Speaker 05

  Has there been a TV depiction of this? Because I can imagine a lot of powdered breasts.

• 27:33Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, there was the recent drama and yes.

• 27:35Speaker 04

  Was he in there?

• 27:36Greg Jenner?

  And I can't, I didn't watch all of it.

• 27:37Speaker 05

  Oh, no. Okay.

• 27:39Greg Jenner?

  But yes, so the story goes that Harold lays his sweet charms.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  On, on Matilda, because William is a, he's a pious ruthless bastard. He goes, he goes to bed early.

• 27:50Speaker 05

  My favorite type.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  He's the best kind. He goes, he goes to bed early, but Matilda likes to stay up late.

• 27:56Speaker 05

  She does.

• 27:56Speaker 04

  Talking with Harold Godwinson, and that is always a euphemism in the sagas. So eventually, word gets around the castle that, that, you know, something's happening. And William kind of drags Harold into his kind of private chamber and says, I hear you've been talking with my wife.

• 28:14Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 28:14Speaker 04

  And Harold says, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, no, I have, I have. Actually, it's not what you think. I really want to marry your daughter. And probably at this point, Matilda's like, what? Hang on, that's not what you said.

• 28:27Greg Jenner?

  You were kissing me.

• 28:27Speaker 04

  You were kissing me. But, you know, Harold, this is his excuse. And he's like, oh, you know, and your wife, Matilda, promised to help me in my suit. So William buys it.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  Right.

• 28:39Speaker 04

  Harold does his oath. He is now betrothed to William's daughter.

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  And then he goes back to England very.

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• 30:56Speaker 04

  Be quickly.

• 30:58Greg Jenner?

  So, we now have two suitors possibly, because Harold is the rightful king, obviously, but maybe he's promised it to William.

• 31:03Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 31:04Greg Jenner?

  And he's promised to marry William's daughter, maybe.

• 31:06Speaker 04

  Maybe.

• 31:06Greg Jenner?

  But now, I can introduce a third suitor, or a third player, player three.

• 31:10Speaker 04

  Player three.

• 31:11Greg Jenner?

  I'm gonna call him the thunderbolt from the north.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 31:13Greg Jenner?

  It's not Erling Haaland. It's not a big, well, I mean, he's sort of, if you had to draw a sort of Norse king.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  It would be Erling Haaland.

• 31:21Greg Jenner?

  Erling Haaland would be your kind of closest. A big, blonde, scary man.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  I think we should all be imagining the king of Norway as Erling Haaland.

• 31:27Greg Jenner?

  Okay, so this is another Harold, but he's a Norwegian Harold, so he's a Harald.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  He's Haraldur Sigurdsson, so he's the son of Sigurdur.

• 31:35Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  Who was also a king of Norway. He's got a fun epithet as well, again, later. But he's called Hardræude, so the hard ruler, or the severe ruler.

• 31:48Speaker 05

  Dude, this does sound slightly pornographic now.

• 31:52Speaker 04

  Fair enough.

• 31:54Speaker 05

  I'm the hard ruler.

• 31:56Speaker 04

  And he's, he is perhaps the most impressive of the contenders for the throne, if you like.

• 32:02Speaker 05

  How so?

• 32:02Speaker 04

  He's just, he's a Viking. He's just, when you picture a Viking.

• 32:07Speaker 05

  Yes, I'm doing it right now.

• 32:09Speaker 04

  Like, in a ship, waving an axe, that's basically Harald.

• 32:13Speaker 05

  Breathing heavily.

• 32:14Speaker 04

  Breathing heavily, there you go. So, so he also, actually, a bit like William and Edward, he also got kicked out of his kingdom as a teenager. So again, this is Knut, lots of things going on in the north. So Knut also wanted Norway, you know, as well as England, as you do. And so Haraldur, Norwegian Haraldur, actually had to spend, you know, 10, 15 years as an exile, and he did this as a mercenary. So he went to the east, kind of Eastern Europe, what is now Eastern Europe, and he ended up in the guard of the Byzantine Emperor, the East Roman Empire, in this very noted collection of soldiers called the Varangian Guard, who

• 32:55Speaker 04

  are kind of the fiercest, the ones who do all the dirty work for the emperor. And he comes back and he uses his wealth and his cunning to become king of Norway.

• 33:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 04

  Haraldur is king of Norway for, you know, for some time afterwards, and he does it pretty well.

• 33:13Greg Jenner?

  But why does he think he should be king of England? Because his enemy was Knut.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  Because he's obviously amazing.

• 33:17Greg Jenner?

  That's not a claim, that's not, that's not a legal claim.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  But you said, why does he think he should be king of England?

• 33:21Greg Jenner?

  Okay, fine, okay. But legally, that's not a claim. William has a legal claim, Harold has a legal claim, Harald, you know, Harald.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  He kind of has a legal claim. So basically, when, so Knut was out, kind of attacking everyone in the North Sea, basically. His, Knut's son, Harald Knut, was king of Denmark.

• 33:41Greg Jenner?

  He's half a Knut.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  He's half a Knut, famously.

• 33:44Speaker 05

  I'm really trying very hard not to.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  Don't worry, this is, this is all in the quiz.

• 33:50Speaker 04

  Well, he had a sort of agreement. Remember, I said there was this nephew that Haraldur kind of came and became half, he became kind of co-king with this nephew named Magnus. And so Magnus and the son of Knut, Harald Knut, had a kind of agreement while this was all kind of kicking off. And neither of them had sons, this is kind of a widespread problem. And they said, well, you know, when one of us dies, if we still don't have a son, we will inherit each other's thrones.

• 34:18Speaker 05

  Lovely.

• 34:18Speaker 04

  So Harald Knut dies. Like I said, the sons of Knut, they're always dying a bit young. So Magnus kind of claims to inherit Denmark, and because Knut was king of Denmark and England, and a bit of Norway, when Haraldur inherits Magnus's kingdom, Norway, he then claims Denmark and England. He'd been kicked out of his kingdom by Knut as a young man.

• 34:44Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 34:44Speaker 04

  Knut had ruled a North Sea, what we would call a North Sea Empire now, he didn't use that term exactly, but he reigned over multiple countries in the North Sea. He was incredibly powerful, cultured person that people at this time could have looked up to, you know, if you're a king, you're like, wow, Knut, you know, he did it really well.

• 35:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 04

  He then served in the, Haraldur then served the Byzantine Emperor, another very powerful person, ruling over multiple lands. I think it makes a lot of sense.

• 35:13Greg Jenner?

  Sure.

• 35:13Speaker 04

  Haraldur says, you know what? I don't want to be just king of Norway. I would like another kingdom. How can I do this?

• 35:19Greg Jenner?

  I need to, it's basically returning into episode of succession here, because there's gonna be another name I have to add in here.

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Oh, no!

• 35:25Greg Jenner?

  Enter player four. This is Tostig, the little brother, Harold's little brother.

• 35:29Speaker 05

  What a cute name, by the way.

• 35:31Greg Jenner?

  It's a cute name. He's not cute.

• 35:32Speaker 05

  No, he sounds warm.

• 35:34Greg Jenner?

  No, no, he's, he's an absolute nightmare. Because Tostig falls out with his brother, Harold Godwinson, so king of England, you know, rightful king of England on the throne.

• 35:45Speaker 04

  He's on the throne.

• 35:46Greg Jenner?

  His little brother, Tostig, is like, I don't like this very much, I'm gonna go make trouble. And he goes and makes trouble in the most sort of, kind of, well, odd kind of way. He just sort of tours Europe.

• 35:56Speaker 04

  He does, he does. I mean, in fairness to Tostig, he has been exiled, because there was.

• 36:02Speaker 05

  This is a common pattern.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  This is a common pattern. So, because he was Earl of Northumbria, right? And so the north is the most wonderful place, but it doesn't really always like southern rule. He imposes taxes, he kills a few noblemen from the north, and northerners, quite understandably, say, you know, we don't really want this, they rebel. There's a kind of agreement in which Tostig has to be banished, he's kicked out, in order to save Edward and save Harold. He's outraged when Harold is all of a sudden crowned in Westminster Abbey. And so indeed, he goes on like a tour of Europe, looking for someone to help him invade. He goes to Normandy, he tells William, William should invade. The Norse sources also say that Tostig

• 36:45Speaker 04

  goes to Denmark, looking for the king of Denmark to help him. King of Denmark says, nah, I don't think so. And he rocks up in Norway. And Haraldur, king of Norway, is there. Tostig rocks up and says, would you like to help me conquer another kingdom?

• 36:58Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  And Haraldur says, well, yes, absolutely. That's exactly what I want to do today.

• 37:02Greg Jenner?

  So, so William starts planning his invasion.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  He's doing that.

• 37:05Greg Jenner?

  But meanwhile, Harald is also planning his invasion, okay. Fine, and Haraldur sets off first.

• 37:11Speaker 04

  Harold sets off first. So basically, what you usually did in this period was you tried to invade and cross the channel especially in the summer, because the weather's nicer.

• 37:20Speaker 05

  This is great. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, of course, it's like a barbecue.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  You don't go on holiday in England in the winter.

• 37:27Speaker 05

  No.

• 37:27Speaker 04

  You go in the summer. So, so they're kind of waiting. So William is down in Normandy, collecting his forces, waiting for kind of the proper wind, you know, the right direction to blow him across the channel, all the ships. So the Norwegians sail first, they go via the Orkneys, they come down the northern coast of England, and they rock up basically in Yorkshire. So our first big battle, on the 20th of September, 1066, they trounce the kind of northern armies. So this is the army. So I said Tostig was the Earl of Northumbria, the guy who kind of kicked him out or took his place. He fights at the battle with his brother.

• 38:05Greg Jenner?

  This is Morcar.

• 38:06Speaker 04

  This is Morcar, Earl of Northumbria, his brother Edwin, Earl of Mercia, and they fight at the Battle of Fulford. Fulford is kind of like a suburb of York now, so it's about two miles out of York. They have a big battle, and it's kind of in very wet territory. And basically, the English army gets kind of like pushed into like this, the swamp, or the fen, loads of them drown, they get killed, so many, according to the Norse sagas, that the Norwegians could cross without getting their feet wet, because of all the dead bodies.

• 38:39Greg Jenner?

  On their bodies, ooh, gross, yeah.

• 38:41Speaker 05

  That is gross.

• 38:42Greg Jenner?

  So, so the northern Isles are killed.

• 38:44Speaker 04

  The northern Isles actually survive.

• 38:46Greg Jenner?

  Oh, did they leg it?

• 38:46Speaker 04

  They run away, they leg it.

• 38:47Greg Jenner?

  Good.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. The Vikings, if you like, the Norwegians seize York. The people of York are like, ooh, I think we should make peace with these people now. They make a big agreement, they pledge, they kind of pledge submission to Haraldur of Norway, who's got Tostig with him at this point. Tostig's kind of fighting on the side of the Norwegians. And then they say, okay, I think we should have like another little meeting, we should have a little assembly in a few days' time at Stamford Bridge.

• 39:17Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 39:18Speaker 04

  Does that ring any bells?

• 39:19Speaker 05

  Chelsea football, love.

• 39:21Speaker 04

  Not those bells.

• 39:22Greg Jenner?

  It's still Yorkshire, actually. It's not London, not West London.

• 39:26Speaker 05

  Wow, they travel fast.

• 39:27Greg Jenner?

  So that's the Viking invasion up north. So that's Tostig supporting Harald, you know, the Norwegian king.

• 39:32Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 39:33Greg Jenner?

  Meanwhile, our Harold, Mr. Mustachio, he's on the south coast waiting for the Williamites.

• 39:38Speaker 04

  Waiting for William. He's gathered the biggest land army and the biggest ship army, navy. He's kind of patrolling the southern coast, waiting for something to happen from Normandy. And all of a sudden, his messengers come down from the north saying, Vikings! Oh, no!

• 39:53Greg Jenner?

  And your brother.

• 39:54Speaker 04

  And your brother. And by the way, they've just killed, you know, this, like, the English armies of the north. Please, could you come help?

• 40:01Greg Jenner?

  Oh, my. Gosh, that's annoying, isn't it?

• 40:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:04Greg Jenner?

  They're waiting for one invasion and then another one happens.

• 40:06Speaker 04

  Another one happens.

• 40:07Speaker 05

  It's like waiting for a bus.

• 40:08Greg Jenner?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 05

  And then two come at once.

• 40:09Greg Jenner?

  Two come at once. So Harold is like, oh, all right.

• 40:11Speaker 04

  Fine, we'll go north.

• 40:12Greg Jenner?

  Because he's just got, he's setting his army home.

• 40:15Speaker 04

  He has, in fact.

• 40:15Greg Jenner?

  Because September is when you do the harvest as farmers. So they need to go get the food in.

• 40:19Speaker 04

  He's just let them all go.

• 40:20Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 04

  And all of a sudden the messengers come and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, but you need to bring an army north.

• 40:24Speaker 05

  Mm.

• 40:24Speaker 04

  Very, very sorry. And he does, he does. So he, we're not quite sure how, none of the sources specify, but probably Harold, King Harold, and his closest retainers probably ride north. That's what they typically did. They would have gathered more kind of militia, kind of local fighters as they went. Some might have gone by ship if they had the ships there at that time. And they arrive in the vicinity of York just after York has said, oh, yes, we're going to submit to the Norwegians.

• 40:54Speaker 05

  Right.

• 40:55Greg Jenner?

  And they do it in what, three days? It's very quick, isn't it?

• 40:58Speaker 04

  It's very quick. I don't know exactly.

• 40:59Greg Jenner?

  Right, yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 04

  I'm not sure we know exactly how many days, but it's like under a week.

• 41:02Greg Jenner?

  They race up and the Vikings are not ready for them.

• 41:05Speaker 04

  The Vikings are not ready?

• 41:05Speaker 05

  No.

• 41:06Greg Jenner?

  What are the Vikings doing?

• 41:07Speaker 05

  Oh, are they putting together furniture?

• 41:13Speaker 05

  Flat pack furniture.

• 41:16Greg Jenner?

  It's a very hot September.

• 41:17Speaker 04

  Hot summer.

• 41:18Speaker 05

  It's a hot September.

• 41:19Greg Jenner?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:19Speaker 05

  Are they sunbathing?

• 41:20Greg Jenner?

  They are.

• 41:20Speaker 05

  Yes. I was trying to be facetious.

• 41:23Greg Jenner?

  No.

• 41:24Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 41:25Greg Jenner?

  They are.

• 41:25Speaker 05

  I bet they are absolutely gorgeous, these Vikings.

• 41:28Greg Jenner?

  Much like the Norway football team in the World Cup recently.

• 41:31Speaker 04

  They're amazing.

• 41:32Greg Jenner?

  There was lots of photos of them with their shirts off going, this is hot.

• 41:34Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 41:34Speaker 04

  That's exactly what the Vikings are doing. Yes, absolutely.

• 41:37Speaker 05

  Right.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  It's a hot day and they think, well, we're not going to fight. We'll leave our armour at the ships. Oh dear.

• 41:43Speaker 05

  Oh no.

• 41:44Speaker 04

  And we'll leave a third of our army at the ships who are, again, slightly out of York. It's a beautiful day and all of a sudden they see this dust cloud. So they see this cloud of dust rolling down this road because it's like it's a hot September, right?

• 41:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  And, and they think, ooh, what is that? And there's this wonderful description in the sagas where it says, and, and it looked like ice in the sun. And it's because the sun is glinting off weapons.

• 42:09Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 42:10Speaker 04

  And Harold kind of calls Tostig to him and says, I think there's an army coming towards us. And Tostig, at first he says, no, I think it's my friends. They're coming to help. And, you know, the weapons become more obvious. They come closer and closer and closer. And Harold says, no, I really don't think that these are your friends. I think this is an army. And we don't have our armour and also a third of our guys are not here.

• 42:32Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 04

  Could someone go get them, please? So he sends off messengers, but in the meantime, it's Harold Godwinson. He's arrived, he's leading a massive force and he attacks the Norwegians.

• 42:43Speaker 05

  Oh no, not these beautiful, righty Norwegians, no.

• 42:47Greg Jenner?

  And Erling Haaland defends the bridge?

• 42:50Speaker 04

  He, he, now we've got two Erling Haalands.

• 42:52Greg Jenner?

  Sorry.

• 42:53Speaker 04

  So we've got this wonderful, possibly later, story about the lone Norwegian who kind of, so they're, you know, the English are coming on one side of the river, the Norwegians are on the other side of the river. And there's a bridge, there's a very narrow bridge over the river. And now we can imagine different Erling Haaland, number two.

• 43:09Greg Jenner?

  Martin Odegaard defends the bridge, yes.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  Indeed, yes. And, and he's like one guy who's got his armour, he's got like a big axe or something.

• 43:16Greg Jenner?

  He's a giant, right? He's a huge guy.

• 43:18Speaker 04

  Big guy. And the English keep attacking him and he keeps killing them.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  Oh, beautiful.

• 43:22Speaker 04

  And he keeps throwing them off the bridge and there's lots of kind of blood and gore and sticky substances everywhere.

• 43:27Greg Jenner?

  Jam?

• 43:28Speaker 04

  Jam, absolutely.

• 43:29Greg Jenner?

  Marmalade jam.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  Blowing everywhere, exactly. And he defends the bridge for hours, which is really important because it allows the Norwegian troops to form up, get the weapons that they have, form a big war, until of course someone finds a boat, which is a problem. They find a boat, one of the English people find a boat, take a spear, get in the boat, sail under the bridge.

• 43:51Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 43:51Speaker 04

  And what do you think happens?

• 43:53Speaker 05

  Is it, is it, is it, is it, does the big giant get a spear in, in, in, in the genitalia area?

• 44:03Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 44:05Speaker 05

  Which fit, which fit, which fit?

• 44:06Greg Jenner?

  Spear up the bum.

• 44:07Speaker 05

  Of the bum?

• 44:08Speaker 04

  No, I don't, I don't think that's best.

• 44:10Speaker 05

  Is it not of the bum?

• 44:11Speaker 04

  Comes up through him, yeah.

• 44:12Speaker 05

  Off through him, so probably the.

• 44:14Greg Jenner?

  The perineal gland.

• 44:15Speaker 05

  Yes, there we go. In Ireland we call it the gooch.

• 44:18Greg Jenner?

  Yes, it is, yes.

• 44:20Speaker 04

  And he does not survive that.

• 44:21Greg Jenner?

  No.

• 44:22Speaker 05

  Oh, no one is going to survive that. The sensation of that.

• 44:25Greg Jenner?

  And so, you know, we should move on because obviously we've got lots to get through.

• 44:27Speaker 04

  We're not Vikings.

• 44:28Greg Jenner?

  But the Vikings are defeated.

• 44:30Speaker 04

  The Vikings are defeated.

• 44:31Greg Jenner?

  And Tostig is dead.

• 44:32Speaker 04

  Tostig is dead.

• 44:33Speaker 05

  How did Tostig die?

• 44:34Speaker 04

  He, well, he.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  Did he get in the gooch as well?

• 44:37Speaker 04

  Not that we don't know.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  Okay, yes.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  The sagas say he fought well and bravely. He fought with the standard and actually Harold, the king, he gets killed first with an arrow in the neck.

• 44:47Speaker 05

  No, not an arrow there.

• 44:48Speaker 04

  I know, he does. But he does speak some poetry before he dies, so that's important. And then Tostig picks up the standard and even across, like across the battlefield.

• 44:56Greg Jenner?

  The raven banner, right?

• 44:57Speaker 04

  The raven banner. It's called the landwaster. Anybody who holds it will be victorious. Turns out that's a myth.

• 45:03Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 45:04Speaker 04

  Harold Godwinson offers a truce to Tostig twice and Tostig says, no, I've joined the Norwegians. I'm, I'm going to fight and die with the Norwegians. I hate you, you know? And, and he does, he dies. They both die.

• 45:19Greg Jenner?

  And then guess what happens?

• 45:22Speaker 05

  Then we have a battle in Hastings.

• 45:23Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 45:24Speaker 05

  Is that, is that?

• 45:24Greg Jenner?

  Well, I mean, yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  They travel down?

• 45:26Speaker 04

  They go down.

• 45:27Greg Jenner?

  So we now get another invasion. So you joked before about the buses thing.

• 45:30Speaker 05

  I did.

• 45:30Greg Jenner?

  Literally what happens.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  That is what happens.

• 45:32Speaker 05

  Okay, another invasion.

• 45:32Greg Jenner?

  Harold has raced north, he's defeated his brother, he's killed the king of Norway.

• 45:37Speaker 05

  William's coming for Hastings.

• 45:38Greg Jenner?

  And three days later?

• 45:40Speaker 04

  Uh, yes, yes, pretty much, yes. So Stamford Bridge, 25th of September. William probably crosses on the 27th, the night of the 27th to the 28th of September.

• 45:49Speaker 05

  He'd be exhausted.

• 45:50Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 04

  He'd be exhausted.

• 45:51Greg Jenner?

  So a message comes up and King Harold is like, what now? Well, good news, sire. You know that invasion you were waiting for? It's happened.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Indeed, indeed.

• 45:59Greg Jenner?

  200 miles away.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Indeed, got to come back down now.

• 46:01Greg Jenner?

  Got to come back down now.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  Come back down.

• 46:02Greg Jenner?

  And the story goes that he races down.

• 46:06Speaker 04

  He races down.

• 46:06Greg Jenner?

  We've often been told that he like, you know, marches his men down, forced marches. They're exhausted, they've just marched 200 miles, fought a battle, now they have to march another 200. Is that true?

• 46:16Speaker 04

  I mean, it's nowhere specified. It would be unusual for him to do that. That's probably more of a Victorian imagining. Harold would have ridden, right? That's what high status men did in this period. His, his housecarls, his retainers probably rode. Some, again, may have gone by ship. He often did, in Wales, he had attacked by land and by sea. And he gathered men as he went. So that's what he really would have been doing. So he's calling up, again, local kind of militia type people. So most of the people we hear about fighting at Hastings are men from the south, so Kent, Sussex, a bit further north, you know, Norfolk, Suffolk.

• 46:56Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, London area.

• 46:57Speaker 04

  London area, right? So he's collecting a new army, if you like. But the corps, yes, absolutely, his kind of professional fighting guys.

• 47:05Greg Jenner?

  His bodyguard.

• 47:06Speaker 04

  His bodyguard absolutely are racing down and fighting, but probably on horses.

• 47:10Greg Jenner?

  And we should probably talk about William's invasion just very quickly because it's incredibly impressive what he's pulled off.

• 47:15Speaker 04

  It's so impressive, it's so impressive. I even, I've even got some, I've got some really fun numbers for you.

• 47:19Greg Jenner?

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  I do, I do.

• 47:20Greg Jenner?

  Give us some data.

• 47:21Speaker 04

  I'm giving you some data. So, so William, he's been collecting men, not just from Normandy, but from northern France. He's sent out the corps, come join me. England is very rich. There's lots of loot, right? The booty.

• 47:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 47:34Speaker 04

  It's got really good, it's got a really effective tax system.

• 47:37Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 47:37Greg Jenner?

  We love that.

• 47:38Speaker 04

  Who doesn't want that? He's also sent messages to the Pope.

• 47:41Speaker 05

  Right.

• 47:42Speaker 04

  The Pope has sent him a papal banner, which basically says you can go kill some Christians in England.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  This Pope is, he's really.

• 47:48Greg Jenner?

  We're back to the Pope again, aren't we?

• 47:50Speaker 04

  We're back to the Pope. He's building ships, he's mustering men and he's provisioning them. So in fact, because I said he's waiting for the wind, the correct wind doesn't blow. He gets sort of stuck on the coast of Normandy for six weeks.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 48:06Speaker 04

  And this is so, and to do that, he has to be a really, really good administrator.

• 48:10Speaker 05

  Mm.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  He has to come up with food, fresh water and alcohol for men, maybe 10,000, 12,000 men, maybe 3,000 horses.

• 48:21Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  For about six weeks.

• 48:22Speaker 05

  So much alcohol for those horses.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  He also has to remove things from the camp. So if you've got, say, 3,000 horses somewhere for a month.

• 48:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  How much poo do you think they would?

• 48:36Speaker 05

  That's a lot of poo.

• 48:37Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 05

  That's a lot of poo.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  I know. So one estimate says five million pounds.

• 48:41Speaker 05

  Of poo?

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Of poo.

• 48:43Speaker 05

  Monetary value or?

• 48:44Speaker 04

  No, literally. So he would have had to have a system to remove the poo. 700, 700,000 gallons of horse wee.

• 48:54Speaker 04

  What? Had to be removed.

• 48:55Greg Jenner?

  Of urine, so horse urine and horse poop is being extracted.

• 48:58Speaker 04

  And 450 tonnes of human poo.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  But wait, how would you extract horse urine? It's not like they've got urinals where the horse.

• 49:04Speaker 04

  He's got to have like a whole system of bringing in food and moving out waste.

• 49:08Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  So I think, you know, William's kind of achievements in this area are not fully acknowledged and they really ought to be. So he's so organised.

• 49:16Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, so 13th of October, Harold and his forces are sort of 10 miles, you know, they've come down to London, they've had a few days.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  They've had a few days in London.

• 49:23Greg Jenner?

  Harold's younger brothers say,

• 49:25Speaker 04

  Don't fight.

• 49:26Greg Jenner?

  Don't fight or let us fight.

• 49:27Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 49:28Greg Jenner?

  You stay here and we'll go fight for you. And he says, no, no, no, I'm going to, I'm the king, it's my land.

• 49:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:32Greg Jenner?

  So they march down on the 13th of October, they're 10 miles outside the Norman camp, they're preparing for battle, where is the battle going to happen?

• 49:40Speaker 04

  Hastings.

• 49:40Greg Jenner?

  No.

• 49:40Speaker 05

  No. Oh, no. And where is it happening?

• 49:45Greg Jenner?

  It happens at a place called Battle.

• 49:47Speaker 05

  Battle?

• 49:48Greg Jenner?

  But only because we call it Battle because where the battle happened.

• 49:50Speaker 05

  That's beautiful.

• 49:52Speaker 04

  We don't know.

• 49:53Speaker 05

  Okay, that's like the Barack Obama Plaza, which is a petrol station named after Barack Obama in Ireland.

• 49:59Greg Jenner?

  So it's about six and a half miles from Hastings.

• 50:00Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. There's a kind of ridge, it's quite rough ground.

• 50:03Speaker 05

  Right.

• 50:04Speaker 04

  It's kind of on the road to London. So the idea is William is kind of bringing his troops up out of this sort of peninsula around Hastings, he's coming up towards London, Harold is coming down from London, he's going to block the advance and Harold grabs.

• 50:18Speaker 05

  They're commuting.

• 50:19Speaker 04

  They're commuting, exactly, exactly. And Harold seizes the high ground, there's a kind of ridge through where there's an abbey, so Battle Abbey Ridge, he seizes the high ground, he puts his men in a kind of big wall, we call it a shield wall.

• 50:34Speaker 05

  Right.

• 50:35Speaker 04

  And the idea is that William and all his men are going to have to sort of charge up the hill and attack the wall. And that's how they're going to take out Harold.

• 50:44Speaker 05

  Right.

• 50:44Greg Jenner?

  Which is extremely difficult to do.

• 50:45Speaker 04

  It's very difficult.

• 50:46Greg Jenner?

  And they try and they try and they try.

• 50:48Speaker 04

  They try all day.

• 50:49Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 04

  They try.

• 50:50Greg Jenner?

  This is one of the longest battles in medieval history.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  Absolutely, which suggests actually they're very, very closely matched.

• 50:56Speaker 05

  Right.

• 50:56Speaker 04

  These two. So they're attacking, attacking the wall, they're sending arrows up over the wall, back and forth, back and forth, until there's a few times actually William, he fights on three horses, people keep kind of killing his horse, he keeps getting up and fighting again.

• 51:11Greg Jenner?

  I'm fine, I'm fine.

• 51:12Speaker 04

  I'm fine, I'm fine. You know, at one point, like the rumor goes around, William is dead.

• 51:16Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 04

  Right, because he's fallen, he has to kind of raise his helmet and say, no, I'm still here, he's fighting.

• 51:21Greg Jenner?

  Dead horse, but I'm fine.

• 51:22Speaker 04

  I'm not dead yet. But eventually, there's an attack on the shield wall, the English troops, the Normans fall back, or the Normans and their allies fall back and the English follow. And the cavalry comes in and slaughters the guys.

• 51:36Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 04

  Who've run after him.

• 51:38Greg Jenner?

  So the English have, they've given up the high ground.

• 51:40Speaker 04

  They've given up some of the high ground.

• 51:41Greg Jenner?

  And then the Normans come round back around and just slaughter them. And then suddenly there's a chink in the wall, presumably there's a hole and.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  And that's, that's kind of, again, that's not it.

• 51:48Greg Jenner?

  Right.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  It might have happened multiple times. William presumably, he tried to attack, you know, retreat, attack, as we say, all day.

• 51:55Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Until eventually, you know, the English are just kind of getting ground down. There's a final assault, we don't quite know what happens, but there's lots of arrows in the air.

• 52:06Speaker 05

  Someone, oh.

• 52:07Greg Jenner?

  There he is. Our lovely little Harold.

• 52:10Speaker 05

  I love it, he's like, you did this to me.

• 52:13Greg Jenner?

  Our podcast artwork, 12 series in, finally makes sense.

• 52:16Speaker 05

  What an honour to be involved in this episode.

• 52:19Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 52:20Greg Jenner?

  So the story is arrow in the eye.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  So early sources say he was killed.

• 52:25Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 52:25Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 52:26Speaker 04

  Or other early sources say he was cut down by many wounds.

• 52:29Greg Jenner?

  Harold Rex interfectus est.

• 52:30Speaker 04

  Exactly, that's what the Bay of Tapestry says. One very early source says, what is it? So William stabbed him in the chest, William's mate got him through the stomach, somebody else lopped off his head.

• 52:44Speaker 05

  Oh, that's going to do it.

• 52:45Speaker 04

  And somebody else lopped off his thigh, sometimes a euphemism, and walked away from the battle holding it.

• 52:52Greg Jenner?

  Right.

• 52:52Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 52:53Speaker 04

  So maybe his thigh, maybe some other piece of anatomy near the thigh.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  Oh, the upper, the upper, upper thigh.

• 53:00Greg Jenner?

  His manhood, right?

• 53:01Speaker 04

  His manhood, they ran off with his manhood as like a weird trophy.

• 53:04Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  Only in the 12th century, three generations perhaps, after the battle, do we have stories of him being wounded by an arrow?

• 53:12Greg Jenner?

  Hmm.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  And then he got wounded by the arrow, but then he fell from other wounds.

• 53:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 04

  And then the story kind of coalesces around this idea of he got it in the eye. By the kind of the 12th century, basically they're saying there was an arrow, there were loads of wounds, they ran off with his thigh. So like you get poets kind of giving all the modes of death in one.

• 53:31Greg Jenner?

  And the famous Bay of Tapestry, the arrow in the eye may be a 19th century restoration.

• 53:35Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 53:35Greg Jenner?

  We don't know.

• 53:36Speaker 04

  It's probably not an arrow and it's probably not in his eye.

• 53:38Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 53:39Greg Jenner?

  So we're not sure. So Harold Godwinson is killed at the Battle of Hastings.

• 53:43Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 53:44Greg Jenner?

  Harold Hadrada has already been killed, Tostig is killed, so William is the fourth king, right?

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Last man standing.

• 53:49Greg Jenner?

  Yeah. So he marches on London and everyone goes, all right, I guess you're the king.

• 53:54Speaker 04

  No, he pillages and burns.

• 53:55Greg Jenner?

  Okay, okay.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  He does what he does best, right? This is very much his strength. So he marches on Dover and Canterbury, he circles London, he crosses the Thames, basically, so our northern earls, Morcar Edwin, there's also the kind of last descendant of Ethelred the Unready, he's still kicking about.

• 54:13Greg Jenner?

  He's still not ready.

• 54:13Speaker 04

  He's still not ready.

• 54:15Greg Jenner?

  About 100 years and I'm still.

• 54:17Speaker 04

  Still not ready. Everybody who could rebel, basically kind of, they kind of all meet in Berkhamsted, so nice meeting for town.

• 54:25Greg Jenner?

  The classic meeting.

• 54:26Speaker 04

  The classic meeting point for 11th century conquest.

• 54:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  And they kind of all bow to William and they're like, okay, fine.

• 54:32Speaker 05

  Like a services station.

• 54:33Speaker 04

  I guess you've won, exactly. And he is crowned king again in Westminster Abbey.

• 54:38Speaker 05

  Oh, that old chestnut.

• 54:39Speaker 04

  And it's still 1066.

• 54:40Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  This is all one year, he's crowned king on Christmas Day, 1066.

• 54:45Greg Jenner?

  It's a Christmas miracle.

• 54:46Speaker 04

  It's a Christmas miracle. New King of England, new chapter.

• 54:49Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, so Edward the Confessor had died on January 4th or 5th and the funeral was January 6th. And then on 25th of December.

• 54:56Speaker 04

  We've got a new king.

• 54:56Greg Jenner?

  Brand new king.

• 54:57Speaker 04

  Brand new king, three kings.

• 54:58Greg Jenner?

  Three kings.

• 54:59Speaker 04

  In one year.

• 55:00Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 55:00Speaker 04

  I know.

• 55:01Greg Jenner?

  And William also famously builds Battle Abbey.

• 55:04Speaker 05

  Oh, yes, right.

• 55:05Greg Jenner?

  As a big apology to God.

• 55:06Speaker 05

  Oh, you've got to apologise.

• 55:08Greg Jenner?

  I'm so sorry about all the bloodshed. So there we go. So Judge Spital, you know, you've been given, did the right man win? William the Conqueror.

• 55:16Speaker 05

  Well, by the name you think it would, wouldn't it?

• 55:18Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 55:18Speaker 05

  Because if he was called William the Conqueror and he didn't win it, that's going to be bad for him. And no, I'm being frank, I'm very attached to Harold there.

• 55:27Greg Jenner?

  Oh, okay.

• 55:28Speaker 05

  I quite fancy him, even though I haven't seen him yet, but I was like, oh, he sounds great. Alfred, Alfred probably should have morally kept the kingdom.

• 55:39Greg Jenner?

  Harold?

• 55:40Speaker 05

  No.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  No, Alfred.

• 55:41Speaker 05

  Oh, Alfred.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  No, he's long dead.

• 55:43Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 05

  May.

• 55:45Greg Jenner?

  You're getting confused on your kings.

• 55:46Speaker 05

  I'm getting destroyed here. I'm getting destroyed.

• 55:48Greg Jenner?

  It's a lot of names.

• 55:49Speaker 05

  It is a lot of names.

• 55:49Greg Jenner?

  You're right, Harold should have kept that. I very much, the way I stand on this one.

• 55:52Speaker 04

  You're team Harold.

• 55:53Greg Jenner?

  I'm not so much team Harold morally, but like he just made an enormous blunder going to fight that battle. Because William had to, he had to come across all the ships, all the navy.

• 56:01Speaker 05

  Do you think they left the brothers to do it?

• 56:03Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, leave the brothers to do it. Because if you lose that battle, you get a second battle.

• 56:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true.

• 56:07Greg Jenner?

  And I'm glad Tostig's dead.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  So harsh on Tostig.

• 56:13Greg Jenner?

  The nuance window.

• 56:18Greg Jenner?

  Anyway, time now for the nuance window. This is where Alison and I embroidered a more historically accurate Bay of Tapestry, maybe with more gooch action, I don't know, for two minutes while Dr Erin tells us something we need to know about the events of 1066. So I'm getting my stopwatch up.

• 56:33Speaker 04

  Oh, gosh.

• 56:34Greg Jenner?

  And that's the wrong app. Sorry, that's my banking app. It's not helpful, is it?

• 56:39Speaker 05

  I bet your banking code is 1066.

• 56:42Greg Jenner?

  Must change it. No, it's not. Okay, so here we go, two minutes, Dr Erin Garris, take it away.

• 56:47Speaker 04

  Okay, so we've talked about the arrow and how Harold was killed.

• 56:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  There was so much carnage on the field of Hastings that actually rumours started to circulate afterwards that first they couldn't identify his body, they had to get his partner, his long-term life partner, Edith Swanneck, to come to the battlefield.

• 57:06Speaker 05

  Edith Swanneck.

• 57:07Speaker 04

  Indeed. Walk the battlefield looking for his body because only she could identify it, because he'd been so hacked to pieces. And also he was missing very important parts of himself.

• 57:17Speaker 05

  She's like, I know that gooch anywhere.

• 57:18Speaker 04

  I know it anywhere, exactly. And in fact, so mutilated apparently was his body, that there were then later rumours that he had survived. And there's a wonderful story from maybe around 1200 that he had been kind of spirited off the battlefield and he'd been healed by weirdly an Arab woman who's kind of shown up at this point in Sussex and nurses him back to life. He wanders the continent and he comes back to England, it becomes a kind of hermit, a holy man, and actually kind of atones for all the bloodshed that way. And he kind of sits in his cell, kind of watching William the Conqueror go to church. And he eventually dies many, many, many years later. And then William kind of hears about his death and says, who's that holy man that's died? And they're like, oh, it's

• 58:03Speaker 04

  Harold Godwinson, didn't you know? And I think that tells us, you know, all these stories tell us that in fact, the biggest myth about 1066 is that we think we know what happened or that we can discover what happened. You know, if we dig at Battle or somewhere else, if we read the sources again, if we rediscover, if we reread the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in a new way, we will know exactly what happened. And I don't think that's true. Battles are messy, politics is messy, people are telling lots of different stories because they had many different experiences at this point. You have the Norwegians, you've got the English, you've got the Normans, you've got loads of different allies, you've got men, women, clerics, peasants, all experiencing these events differently. They all have a different

• 58:48Speaker 04

  story because they all have a different experience. So of course we have different versions of what happened in 1066. And I don't think that's a bad thing. That's a good reminder that we can't always know history, of course. And it's what makes it so fascinating, also frustrating, if you try to write a book about it, like I've just done. But it also makes it really fun. And that's okay.

• 59:10Greg Jenner?

  So it's a lovely message.

• 59:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:13Greg Jenner?

  So Harold's still alive now, actually, that's what I took him out.

• 59:15Speaker 04

  He's actually still, he's actually just outside having a cup of tea.

• 59:17Speaker 05

  Like Elvis Presley, he's in a chip shop in Sheffield, something like that. Wow, that's incredible. So like, what is the most like prevalent kind of view of that battle then? Like, in which aspect?

• 59:30Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 59:31Speaker 05

  Well, from the headlines of like, it feels like, it's like Harold messed up and William won. And that's.

• 59:39Speaker 04

  I don't think Harold messed up.

• 59:41Speaker 05

  Right.

• 59:41Speaker 04

  It was a real, remember as Greg said, this fight, the battle lasted all day. Most medieval battles lasted like an hour, maybe two.

• 59:50Speaker 05

  Right.

• 59:50Speaker 04

  So the fact that it lasted.

• 59:51Speaker 05

  This is a tantric war.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  They were really closely matched. These guys, these were two, three incredibly good commanders. They were followed by men who believed in them, who fought very, very well, actually. It might just be that, you know, there was an arrow in the wrong place or Harold was wounded. You know, once the head guy is killed, the other guys give up. But it could have been any of them. It was, it might just have been bad luck.

• 1:00:23Greg Jenner?

  So what do you know now?

• 1:00:28Greg Jenner?

  This is where we quiz Alison to see what she's learned.

• 1:00:32Speaker 05

  Gosh.

• 1:00:32Greg Jenner?

  Alison is panicking.

• 1:00:34Speaker 05

  There's so many men in this.

• 1:00:36Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, there weren't many women in the story. There's Matilda, there's Edith Swan neck.

• 1:00:40Speaker 05

  There's many Ediths.

• 1:00:41Greg Jenner?

  There's quite a lot of lads, though, isn't it?

• 1:00:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's a lot of lads. I bet Edith Swan neck was a looker. He was. Also called Edith the Fair. Ah, very good.

• 1:00:50Greg Jenner?

  Okay, I've got 10 questions for you, Alison. You feeling good?

• 1:00:52Speaker 05

  I think so, I think so. Let's do it.

• 1:00:54Greg Jenner?

  Here we go then. Right, question one. Which English king died in January 1066 sparking a succession crisis?

• 1:01:00Speaker 05

  Edward the Confessor.

• 1:01:00Greg Jenner?

  It was. Question two. Who were the three contestants for the English throne in 1066?

• 1:01:06Speaker 05

  Harold there?

• 1:01:07Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 05

  Harold?

• 1:01:08Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  William.

• 1:01:09Greg Jenner?

  Very good.

• 1:01:10Speaker 05

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:01:11Greg Jenner?

  Question three. What event happened on the same day as Edward's funeral, the 6th of January 1066?

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  The Trump riots?

• 1:01:19Greg Jenner?

  No, no, no.

• 1:01:19Speaker 05

  Oh, wait, wait, wait. Oh, wait, 1066, sorry. Okay, it was the coronation of Harold.

• 1:01:26Greg Jenner?

  It was. It was the combi event, wasn't it? Yes.

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:01:28Greg Jenner?

  Funeral and coronation. Although there were some similarities between that. Question four. While seeking support, which three foreign courts did Harold's exiled brother Tostig visit trying to round up invading pals?

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  Denmark.

• 1:01:42Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 1:01:43Speaker 05

  Norway.

• 1:01:44Greg Jenner?

  Yes.

• 1:01:44Speaker 05

  And, oh, crumbs.

• 1:01:46Greg Jenner?

  The first one?

• 1:01:48Speaker 05

  The first one, it's Tostig, and it's like, oh. France?

• 1:01:52Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, Normandy. Yeah, the eventual winner. Very good, very good.

• 1:01:55Speaker 05

  I care a lot about this.

• 1:01:57Greg Jenner?

  Question five. Norse sources claim Harold did what with Duke William's wife Matilda?

• 1:02:03Speaker 05

  Oh, he talked to her all night long.

• 1:02:05Greg Jenner?

  He did.

• 1:02:06Speaker 05

  All night.

• 1:02:07Greg Jenner?

  All night long. Question six.

• 1:02:11Speaker 05

  It wasn't me. I was talking under stuff. Sorry.

• 1:02:14Greg Jenner?

  Question six. Can you name the Yorkshire battle in which Tostig and King Harald of Hadradah both died?

• 1:02:20Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:02:21Greg Jenner?

  Think of Chelsea Football Club.

• 1:02:22Speaker 05

  Stamford Bridge, Stamford Bridge.

• 1:02:24Greg Jenner?

  Question seven. How many days after the Battle of Stamford Bridge did the Normans land? It was three. Very good. Question eight. We don't know how King Harold died. Thank you, Erin, for that. But can you describe one version found in the sources?

• 1:02:36Speaker 05

  Arrow in the eye?

• 1:02:37Greg Jenner?

  Sure, or?

• 1:02:38Speaker 05

  Or in the thigh, in the upper thigh area.

• 1:02:42Greg Jenner?

  Exactly, but we don't really know.

• 1:02:43Speaker 05

  We don't know.

• 1:02:44Greg Jenner?

  The poor guy died, or he didn't.

• 1:02:46Speaker 05

  Or he might not have.

• 1:02:47Greg Jenner?

  Question nine. Can you name the abbey King William founded to atone?

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  Oh, Westminster.

• 1:02:51Greg Jenner?

  Oh, no, King William founded to atone for his sins at the battle.

• 1:02:54Speaker 05

  Battle.

• 1:02:55Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, battle, actually. Very good. Westminster was the other abbey. Very good. You were listening. Question 10. For a perfect 10, on what date was King William crowned?

• 1:03:03Speaker 05

  25th of December.

• 1:03:06Greg Jenner?

  Absolutely true. 10 out of 10. Alison, perfect score.

• 1:03:10Speaker 05

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:03:11Greg Jenner?

  You even flung our, you know, there he is, you flung our Harold across the floor. Our little puppet. He's dead now. Well done, Alison. Very good.

• 1:03:22Speaker 05

  Thank you very much.

• 1:03:23Greg Jenner?

  You seem happy.

• 1:03:23Speaker 05

  I am. I'm really competitive. I'm really competitive.

• 1:03:26Greg Jenner?

  And well done, Erin, for an excellent history lesson. Listeners, of course, if you want more medieval history with Alison, check out our episode on the medieval popes. They were messy. Let's be honest. It's a very funny episode. Plus, of course, we have episodes on Emma of Normandy, who we talked about earlier, and we have one on the Bayeux Tapestry artwork itself. Again, a fascinating episode because there's lots we know and lots we don't. If you've enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe to You're Dead to Me on BBC Sounds to hear the show 28 days earlier than anywhere else. And if you're outside the UK, you can listen at bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I just like to say a huge thank you to our guests. In history corner, we had the excellent Dr Erin Gores from University College London. Thank you, Erin. Thank you so much. And in comedy corner, we had the amazing Alison Spittle. Thank you, Alison.

• 1:04:09Speaker 05

  I'm so happy I'm here. I've got 10 out of 10.

• 1:04:12Greg Jenner?

  You did. You very well. And to you, lovely listener. Join me next time as we re-evaluate another historical grudge match. But for now, I'm off to go and offer myself as the half-English, half-French leader that this country needs to finally heal our divisions. Bye.

• 1:04:30Greg Jenner?

  You're Dead to Me is a BBC Studios production for BBC Radio 4. This episode was written and produced by Dr Emmy Rose Price Goodfellow, me, and series producer Dr Emma Nagouse. The research was by John Norman Mason. The studio and edit production was by Steve Hankey, and the production coordinator was Jill Huggatt.

• 1:04:52Greg Jenner?

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• 1:05:21Speaker 04

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• 1:05:49Speaker 04

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