Shelby Haas-Sapp: The Sales Psychology That Gets Buyers to Sell Themselves | Sales | YAPClassic

Starting in door-to-door sales as the only woman on her team, Shelby Haas-Sapp faced constant rejection while learning how to earn buyers’ trust. As she moved into high-ticket sales, she realized modern buyers were turned off by scripted pitches and pressure, so she learned to ask better questions, handle objections early, and let buyers sell themselves. She later built She Sells Academy around those lessons. In this episode, Shelby shares how to close high-ticket sales, adapt to different buyers, and use content and webinars to sell online. In this episode, Hala and Shelby will discuss: Here are the updated timestamps using your requested format: (00:00) Introduction (01:58) What Makes Someone Great at Sales (04:21) Building a “Sales Psychopath” Mindset (07:50) Why Women Excel at Closing Deals (11:33) The Hot Girl Sales Mentality (17:44) Selling to Different Buyer Types (27:50) Lessons From Door-to-Door Selling (34:57) How to Handle Common Sales Objections (47:06) Understanding Today’s Buyers (48:33) How to Close High-Ticket Sales (57:00) Building an Authentic Social Media Brand (01:04:33) Scaling High-Ticket Offers With Webinars (01:09:55) How Environment Shapes Success and Energy Shelby Haas-Sapp is an entrepreneur and the founder of She Sells Academy, a sales training company that helps women build careers in remote high-ticket sales. She began her career in door-to-door sales at 18, where she learned how to pitch, handle rejection, and build resilience. Shelby is also a content creator known for teaching sales strategies to a growing audience of entrepreneurs and business owners on social media. Sponsored By: Indeed - Get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job's visibility at Indeed.com/profiting Shopify - Start your $1/month trial at Shopify.com/profiting. Northwest Registered Agent - Get a complete business identity with Northwest. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/YAPFree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Mindstone - Master practical AI skills without the complexity with Mindstone’s AI Competency Programme. Head to experience.mindstone.com/yap and get 10% off. AT&T Business - Stay connected with reliable, secure internet built for entrepreneurs. Switch to AT&T Business at business.att.com. HoneyLove - Treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market. Save 20% off Honeylove by going to honeylove.com/PROFITING! #honeylovepod Freshbooks - Manage all your business finances in one place. Right now, my listeners can get FreshBooks for less than $3 a month for your first four months — that's 90% off. Head to FreshBooks.com/podcast to get started. Walmart Marketplace - Reach millions of active online shoppers and get ready for holiday demand. Apply to sell today at marketplace.walmart.com/yap. AG1 - Get a daily health drink that helps maintain energy, support gut health, and support immune health, all in one simple scoop. And for a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at DRINKAG1.com/PROFITING. Resources Mentioned: Shelby’s Website: shelbysapp.com Shelby’s Instagram: instagram.com/shelby.sapp Shelby’s TikTok: tiktok.com/discover/shelby-sapp Active Deals - youngandprofiting.com/deals Key YAP Links Reviews - ratethispodcast.com/yap YouTube - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting Newsletter - youngandprofiting.co/newsletter LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala Social + Podcast Services: yapmedia.com Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com/episodes-new LinkedIn Creator Club - Skool.com/linkedin-creator-club Entrepreneurship, Entrepreneurship Podcast, Business, Business Podcast, Self Improvement, Self-Improvement, Personal Development, Starting a Business, Strategy, Investing, Sales, Selling, Psychology, Productivity, Entrepreneurs, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Technology, Marketing, Negotiation, Money, Finance, Side Hustle, Startup, Mental Health, Career, Leadership, Mindset, Health, Growth Mindset, Online Selling, Economics, E-commerce, Ecommerce, Negotiation, Prospecting, Persuasion, Inbound, Value Selling, Account Management, Business Growth, Scale, Sales Podcast

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:08Speaker 01

  Sales isn't a chase, it's a dance. And when you chase somebody, they're gonna run away. I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales. You're gonna go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no. But you have to go into every single encounter thinking, this is the person that's gonna buy from me.

• 1:27Speaker 00

  And I got some stats, female reps are 11% more likely to win deals than men. So talk to us about why women are so good at selling.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  So this is what I've found is people believe 0% of the words that come out of a salesperson's mouth because duh, you're a sales rep. But they believe 100% of the words that come out of their own mouth. So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can't go back on later.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral?

• 1:56Speaker 01

  There's like two buckets. One bucket is,

• 2:00Speaker 00

  yeah fam, if you want to stop sounding salesy and start closing more deals like somebody who knows they just belong in the room, you're gonna love this episode. Today, we're bringing back my awesome conversation with Shelby Sap, founder and CEO of She Sells Academy. Shelby has built a massive brand, teaching women how to dominate high-ticket sales, and she is totally the it girl in business right now. And in this episode, she and I talk about why the best salespeople don't chase, beg, or over-explain. They bring the right energy, ask questions that make buyers sell themselves, and prevent objections before they ever happen. So without further ado, let's dive right into my amazing conversation with Shelby Sap.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  Shelby, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  I'm so excited to talk to you today because I love sales. I feel like I'm a natural salesperson. Everything I do at my company right now, the main focus is sales. I've been selling since I was 10 years old, I would say. But many people think that sales are scary. And Jeremy Minor came on my show, I know you talked to him recently, and he says that nobody is born a salesperson, and you've got to work at it. So that's my first question to you. What kind of person do you think is cut out for sales? Do you think everybody is cut out for sales?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, you would never guess who's gonna be good at sales, is what I've learned. And that's coming from my sales trainer background from different industries is I would put money on like this guy that would come out and do door-to-door, top of the football team, super extravagant, extroverted guy. I'm like, you're gonna do so good. He doesn't, at all. But then like the shy person that just studies, knows the script, works hard, doesn't sit down, that person completely outsells the other one. So you really just never know. But I think the main trait of like what makes somebody good is intrinsic motivation. And I think at the end of the day, no matter your personality type, shy, extroverted, outgoing,

• 4:06Speaker 01

  if you know that you are so motivated that nothing else is gonna stop you, that's what's gonna make you good. Because at the end of the day, you can teach anybody sales, right? But it's like the work ethic. And when you're so down, going for that extra call, rolling that extra objection, you can't really teach somebody that. So I always look for that in the girls that are in my academy and really try to instill the intrinsic motivation in them.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  That's such a great point. And speaking of like mindset, motivation, what kind of limiting beliefs do you feel like people usually have that's holding them back from actually being good at selling?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Ooh, I would say that people are scary. People are not scary at all. Especially, I teach a lot of women. The men, they're like so scared to sell these alpha males. And it's like, those guys are more than often the teddy bears. And they kind of respect when you are a little bit pushy with them. Like, they're like, okay, like I respect this girl, I respect the hustle. So just kind of knowing that other people aren't as scary as they seem, and they have no idea what you're saying. So you can just have fun with it, bring back the human connection to sales rather than just like selling with a script.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  So you're like blowing up on social media, you're doing really well on Instagram and TikTok. And I saw one of your videos and you were talking about how you need to be a sales psychopath.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Oh yes, you do.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Talk to me about that.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  So I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales because a lot of people think, you know, sales is super cool, the shiny thing, you can make a lot of money. It's like, yes, but you don't get paid to show up. You get paid to go the extra mile. And sales is something to where it's a direct reflection of your work ethic. So if you really want to make it worth it and to be that top 1% cream of the crop, you have to be a little bit of a psycho, not only in your work ethic, but also in your ability to just know how to regulate your emotions throughout the day. Like for example, you're gonna go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  But you have to go into every single encounter thinking, this is the sale. This is the person that's gonna buy from me. When maybe the last 10 people told you to, yourself, you know? So to me, that's so psychotic because that's not normal. That's not normal human behavior. You have to trick yourself into being this psychopathic mentality in order to really reap, in my opinion, the true benefits of sales. Because that really does come from the top of the top, the best of the best.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  It's so true because like nobody really knows like what your track record is. Nobody knows how many sales you made before that day. The customer knows nothing about you. They don't know your ranking, they don't know anything about you. So you can come there with good energy and, you know, just have the confidence and know your stuff, and they have no idea how well you've done in the past.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Exactly. And it sounds so simple, but it's really not because having that conviction in your voice and that sure tone and that confidence, that energy and the aura, when you just got demolished by every single person before is so hard. But like you said, they really have no clue. So you almost have to like brainwash yourself into being like, this is the client that's gonna buy. And that one client that buys, that commission is gonna make up for all of the no's that you had that day. So all it takes is the one, you can't let the other people get to.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel like before I get on any big sales calls, I literally am telling myself like, Hala, you're the number one person at this. You've crushed so and so. Like I always like give myself like a little pep talk, like, listen, you've got this. You're the best expert at this. You know, when I don't come with that kind of energy, like if I'm having a bad day or just like tired or sick, I feel like it could totally go the other way.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  100%. I always say your energy is your currency. And being sad will literally make you poor. No matter what you do, especially in sales though, and that's not saying you can't be sad. We're all sad sometimes, but you do have to almost just fake it sometimes. And that's the psycho is I like, it doesn't matter. Sales does not matter what's going on in your life, what emotions you're going through. If you're having a bad day, if you're down, if your boyfriend broke up with you. Like the client has no idea, they don't care. So it's like, do you want to make money or not? You can either turn it on or off, you know?

• 8:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I know that you spent a lot of your time focused on selling to women. And there's been a lot of recent reporting saying that women are better at selling than men. And you've really built your whole brand around female sales reps. And I got some stats, female reps are 11% more likely to win deals than men. So talk to us about why women are so good at selling.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  So this is what I've found is, one, women get a little bit underestimated when they hop onto a sales call. And this can be either a really good or a really bad thing. Because if you don't know how to run the call, if you don't know how to establish your authority, your credibility, your respect, then you're just gonna get walked all over. And then that's why some women think, oh, I'm just, I'm just not good because they don't respect me. It's like you didn't demand the respect. So that's kind of like the way it could go negatively if you don't know how to use your advantages to your advantage. But the best way is you get a little bit underestimated in the beginning, but then you kind of like take charge and put your foot down almost in the sale. That way they're like, oh, this girl knows her stuff. Like I respect that. So then it kind of almost becomes a positive.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  And that's what I train my girls on is how to use like, yes, we're gonna have a little bit of a stereotype, no matter who you're talking to. Older women might look down on you, younger women might look up to you. Older men might be like, oh, she has no idea what she's talking about. So using those different stereotypes as a way to actually be a plus side in sales. Also, um, men, and the men that I've, I've trained a lot of men, specifically more in door-to-door, they have that credibility. Like as soon as they hop on a call, they have that authority, they have a little bit more respect. And so for them, it's more about building the softer side throughout the sales process. Versus girls, I teach them to do a little bit of the opposite

• 10:39Speaker 01

  because people already want to open up to you, you know?

• 10:41Speaker 00

  That makes sense. So it's like women already have natural empathy. And the men, you actually teach them how to have better empathy so that they can be more like women in the sales process.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  So it's kind of like a blend of the soft side, but also like maintaining that respect and credibility because that's what sales is, is it's perfectly teetering the line between let's get the deal done. This is what makes sense. Um, like the business side, the logical side of your brain, but then the other side of your brain is emotions. And I always tell my students that I teach, you can't sell with logic because then a buyer is going to make a logical decision. They're going to take your logical pitch and they're going to make a logical decision, which is this sounds great. Send it over and we'll talk about it later. That's the logical thing to do, right? Is not to spend thousands of dollars on a 30 minute call.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  But what creates that buying atmosphere is using the logical side, but also pulling that emotion in order to create the buying atmosphere. So.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  I love that. I'm going to get into the emotion part of it later with you, but first I want to stick on this like hot girl concept, right? So like you call your sales girls, hot girls, you yourself, very beautiful, blonde, skinny.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  Young, right? So do you think that looks has anything to do with your success in sales?

• 12:03Speaker 00

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• 15:16Speaker 01

  I think it would be stupid to say that a lot like looks have nothing to do with it, but I think that it can go, like I said, a good way or a negative way. I think you can be taken not as seriously if you're a pretty girl and you don't know your stuff. People just assume like, oh, she's just another pretty face. Like, I'm not going to trust her with my business. Cause what I've found, especially with a lot of the girls that I would train, oh my gosh, back in my door to door days, I would recruit all of my best friends from my sororities, all pretty girls. Some of them did terrible. And it's because like, pretty girls haven't had a lot of rejection before. So it's like, people would waste their

• 15:57Speaker 01

  time. And if you don't know how to do it right, it's kind of a negative. So the looks things, I think everybody has advantages and disadvantages. You just have to know what to use. But the hot girl, the hot girl sales thing that I always talk about. So that specifically has nothing to do with looks. So the hot girl mentality that I always talk about in my content is, has nothing to do with looks. It also has nothing to do with being a girl. There's so many guys that I'm like, you are a hot girl. So what it is, what it is, is this, I tell people that I want them to imagine like the hottest girl they know walks into a room. How does she walk in? Is she hunched over, looking at her phone, kind of like, oh my gosh, who

• 16:40Speaker 01

  should I talk to? Should I go stand in the corner? Or is she the girl that walks in, her energy is just so infectious. And other people are like, oh, I want to figure out what she's about. I want to go ask her questions. So it's more about the aura and the energy that you have, that you carry into every single conversation.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  That makes a lot of sense. So like I mentioned before, you're young, you're 23. Do you ever get people telling you like, you know, what do you know? You're 23 years old. Why are you teaching sales?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  All the time. And it's so funny because I, I like to say I've lived 30 years in the last probably four years. Um, so I feel like I'm like 60 years old, but um, I do get that. And what I like to say is, I don't have kids. I don't have like, this is my thing. This is every single piece of my energy goes into this. And I also bring a different layer of I know what works. Sales training and sales changes every single day, especially with online, how people perceive things. A lot of the sales techniques that a lot of the older sales trainers use, when I was like a sales rep, I would listen to that, try it,

• 17:53Speaker 01

  and get the door slammed in my face. So it's like, there's a lot of little things that you just have to know, like realistically, would that work or not? And I think that's kind of where a lot of my content, people see it and they're like, oh, that would actually work.

• 18:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you know what? You have a track record. You've done great in sales. And here's the thing, you're a good teacher, right? So when I hear feedback about, you know, or if I've seen stuff, when people are like, kind of hating on you, I'm like, she's saying, I'm a salesperson, she's talking the right stuff and she's doing good.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  They're never in sales.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. And like she's, she's able to teach it. And I think that's really the difference, right? So.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Kudos to you. I'm really proud of everything that you've done and I think you're awesome.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  I remember I was talking to somebody and I couldn't for the life of me, remember who the person was. So if you guys are tuning in and you remember this conversation on the podcast, let me know. But I remember I was telling a story on this podcast and I was talking to somebody super credible. And I was telling them how when I worked at Disney and corporate, I looked much younger than I am. And so everybody used to think I was like 10 years younger than I was. And I was treated like an intern, even though I had all this experience. And I ended up leaving corporate to be an entrepreneur. One of the reasons why is because I was, looked too young to be taken seriously. And the guy told me that in business, the age you want to look like is 35.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Whether you're older or younger. And to me, like, I always like, remember that. I was like, okay, I just need to look like 30, 35 forever, you know?

• 19:21Speaker 01

  That is so funny because I always tell my friends, I'm like, I feel like girls want to look younger. I, I make myself try to look older. You know, like I put my hair up, glasses on, red nails. Like I'm trying to make myself look a little bit more older. Cause you're so right. I feel like that's like the perfect age for respect, but also still being like somebody that people really are like, oh my gosh, like I really want to talk to her.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  Exactly. You've got experience, but you're still young enough to be like hungry and tech savvy. And so like 35 is the age that you want to emulate. And I like never forgot that. So when it comes to sales, I personally feel like my femininity, wearing makeup, dressing nice, grooming helps me close deals. When I was saying before, like if I'm ever like sick, tired, or like don't have time to do my makeup or hair and I get on a sales call, I'm like 50% chance this is not gonna close.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  I don't feel my best, I don't look my best, maybe the lighting is bad, I'm like in a hotel or something. And so I wanted to get your thoughts on that, like grooming, men and women, what do you think matters?

• 20:27Speaker 01

  100%. So the majority of the sales that I teach are like face to face. So like you can see the other person. And I straight up tell, well, I told my girls or my guys when I was doing door to door, and I tell my girls now, you need to look good. Like looks do matter in a sales process. They make people want to talk to you, hear you out a little bit more, but also like yourself. When you look and feel your best self, you're gonna be more open with people, you're gonna have just a better energy. And that kind of comes back to the hot girl mentality of I am that girl. And when I show up, I'm gonna look my best, I'm gonna feel my best, and I'm gonna act my best.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  Cody Sanchez, been on the show a couple of times, and she told me that women who wear makeup make 30% more on average. Men who have better grooming make 15% more. So it's not about your looks, it's not about like how actually like symmetrical your face is, it's really about the grooming, a good haircut, nice clothes, white teeth, like all that kind of stuff really matters. So let's get into some more tactical stuff. I want to stick on the gender topic a bit. Talk to me about how a woman should sell to a man versus a man sell to a woman, and I'll give you some other scenarios.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  I love that. I guess the biggest difference is a woman really needs to establish frame super early on, or else she'll lose it. And so what that basically means is you need to establish your credibility as somebody that knows her stuff, knows exactly why they're on the call, isn't getting on the call and saying, oh, where are you based out of? Oh, my gosh, I love your outfit. Where is it from? It's like, no, just get to the actual point of the call first, or else the rapport can actually have a negative effect on you. So I like to teach my girls to really establish that credibility early on into the pitch, and then you open up the rapport for the question based selling. And for women, this

• 22:25Speaker 01

  is the biggest part, to let the other person talk a little bit more. So asking really good questions in order to get somebody to open up. And then also, being super simple when it comes to closing. A lot of women try to talk a lot when it comes to the clothes, and almost like justify why the prices are there when somebody didn't even ask. You know, they could have been able to 100% afford it, and they're like, yo, so this is the price, you know, it's because there's a lot that goes into it, and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, this is the price. Shut up.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  I always say kiss them, keep it simple stupid, just shut up. So that's more for the women is really leading with that respect, getting them to open up to you, and then ending with the respect, like a little sandwich.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  For the men, I like to have men be a little bit more warm in the beginning, and then leading with the credibility, and then a little bit more warm at the end. So it's almost a flip flop.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Just because I think, especially if they're selling to another woman, if there's a man on the other side of the screen, they're almost like, oh, sales rep. So they have the stigma of like, oh, this is just another sales bro, sales guy. So when they kind of drop that boundary, and they're a little bit more human in the beginning, it's a plus size, or a plus side for the men.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  And how about a woman selling to a woman?

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Okay, so woman selling to a woman, a lot of the girls that I trained in the beginning, they're like, oh, girl, like they try to go the bestie route too soon, and it comes off a little fake. And women buyers have such good intuition, so it's really good to connect, but making sure that it's not a fake connection. So I always like to lead with like the business first. And then if I genuinely like love her shirt, or I genuinely love the way she carries herself or talks, I'm gonna say that. But I'm not just gonna try to be all bestie, bestie with her when it comes off fake, because they can sniff that. And as soon as that happens, it's completely, completely done.

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• 26:15Speaker 00

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• 26:31Speaker 00

  What's up, Yap gang? I recently had Gary Vee on the podcast, and he told me something that really stuck with me. If you've got sales DNA, you've got to be paying attention to live selling, because it's one of the biggest opportunities right now online. And that really got me curious. So I checked out an app that he told me about called Whatnot. I jumped into a live show, and I instantly got it. The seller was showing products in real time, answering questions in the chat, and building a real relationship with the buyers. It didn't feel like boring shopping. It felt like a community. Whatnot is the largest live shopping marketplace in the country. And for entrepreneurs, the results are really hard to ignore. Sellers on Whatnot can sell up to 10 times more than traditional marketplaces. And the number of sellers making over a million dollars a year on the platform

• 27:14Speaker 00

  has doubled. So if you've got products to sell, and you're looking for a new way to reach customers, search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the App Store. Download it, and you can start selling right away. That's Whatnot in the App Store. Okay, how about selling to an alpha male versus a beta male?

• 27:31Speaker 01

  I love this one. So selling to an alpha male, you have to make him think that it's his decision. You can never tell him like, okay, yeah, this is your problem, this is the solution, like this is how much it's gonna be, let's go. He's gonna be like, no, I think that it should be done this way. Or in the back of his head, he's gonna be like, well, we've tried that before, or I didn't, I need to look at this competitor first. It's his decision. So I always like to say things, kind of like, okay, well, I mean, you're the one that's been dealing with this for so long, like, why do you think this is happening? Or, I mean, I'm sure you guys have tried so many things. I mean, you've been in business for quite some time, like, what else have you guys tried? And like, why didn't that work out? And they, this is the point where they yap, yap, yap, and they're

• 28:13Speaker 01

  like, oh, my gosh, well, Stacy tried to do this, and that didn't work, and then we tried this, and blah, blah, blah. And then it's perfect. You're giving me so much ammo that I'm gonna use later on, when I'm more of just the helper and the problem solver, rather than a sales rep at the end. So the alpha males, yeah, you have to like, put them up on a pedestal and make them feel all good about themselves in order to really let them be super comfortable buying from you. Beta males, also some of my favorite sales ever. I have a lot of vivid memories selling beta males. Very funny. I remember this one time, this was maybe my first year doing door to door sales. I remember sitting down on a

• 28:58Speaker 01

  curb at a grown man's house for him with 45 minutes, going over everything, every question, he just can't make a decision. And I just told him, I'm like, okay, Ben, like, it's 8:30, what's your last name? And he was like, let's just say Blanco. He's like, Blanco, but why? And I'm like, we're signing you up. That's it. We've been talking for way too long. I'm going home. Like, we're just signing you up, you need it. And he was like, okay, if you're gonna make me do it. What? So betas, not that extreme of a case, but they like when you outline a game plan. So they like when you listen to what they're saying, you really get that problem. And then you say, okay,

• 29:40Speaker 01

  a lot of people similar to that, what we've done with them is this, this, this, and this. And then they've gotten this and this result. So as soon as they know the game plan and the results that other people have, it makes it an easy yes for them because they're like, okay, I like being told what to do a little bit more.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  That makes sense. And how can you tell if they're alpha or beta to begin with, like right at the start of the call? Like, what's your signals?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Oh, so I feel like it is kind of an intuition thing, but a little bit more of alpha males, especially with a woman selling to them, will interrupt you a little bit, or they'll kind of like dominate the conversation. So it's not like one specific cue or another. It's just like, okay, this guy needs to have his input in pretty much everything. Or they almost try to steer the call or just super loud. I hate when people call me like little lady. I feel like that's like a big cue that I get sometimes.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  And then beta males, they are a little bit more timid, a little bit like they let you completely steer the call. And with that person, I'm going to maintain that control, outline that control, and then they're going to follow that control the whole way through.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Is it the same thing with selling to women? Can there be alpha women and beta women? Is it just basically the same? That makes sense.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  For sure. Yeah. It's just the women on women dynamic. You have to make sure that you're being like genuine and relatable to this girl and not super like unrelatable or trying to be fake besties with.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Do you feel like as a woman, you should tone down your hair and makeup if you're going to sell to a woman?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Yes. So I have had a couple of girls experiment with this and we had a little thread on it in my community. Yes. And I think that this makes you a little bit more relatable, but also like you want the client to feel like the superstar the whole time. You never want to be the one that's like shiny, wearing all these fancy jewelry. Like, no, nobody wants to buy from somebody that looks like that. So people want to buy from somebody that like makes them feel good. It's the same thing with dating. I always relate a lot of sales stuff back to dating. Is like you could go on a date with a guy and you're like, oh my God, this guy is so cool. He's amazing. He's done all these things. That's so cool.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Or you could go on a date with a guy and you walk away and you're like, he made me feel so cool. Like he made me feel like the shining star. And what you're going to do is you're probably going to go on a date with the guy that made you feel amazing more than the other guy. So that's how I always like to treat that dynamic with my clients is I want you to feel like that girl.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  That makes a lot of sense. And I feel like especially after you close them, like, let's say you have some sort of an agency, you have to keep continuing to see that person. You really don't always want to be like so dolled up. So they're like, oh, here you are coming on the call again, like so dolled up. And we're just having a business meeting, you know? So I try to be very casual in those situations. Okay. Last one, young versus old.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Okay. So young people, so you can either sell with pain or pleasure. And everybody knows selling with pain is way better just because people buy with pain more than they buy with pleasure. People sell painkillers a lot easier than they sell vitamins, basically. So you always want to look for the pain and pleasure with every single person. So every single person's going to be different. You might be on a call with a young person who has a lot of pain. You're going to sell with that. But for the most part, generalization, young people are buying the dream and older people are buying a pain point. So you're selling a little bit more with dream state questions with young people of like, okay, you have so much potential. Like where do you want to get to? I could see that for you.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Versus older people, it's a lot of past stuff that you're bringing up, which is going to be more provoking questions, emotional pain. Um, and then I always like to say with old people, you need to let them talk about their life, maybe their deceased wife or their grandkids or like whatever's going on in their life. But make sure that they're not wasting your time and like bring them back into the sale periodically. That way you're not stuck there talking about little Jimmy's football game last Sunday. And you're like, okay, like I'm here for a sales call. So like, let's go, you know?

• 34:03Speaker 00

  I feel like older people, uh, and I'm talking about like 60 and up, you know, like they tend to ask a lot of questions and I feel like the sales process just takes longer. They ask a lot of questions. They're, they're scared of salespeople and they don't, they're not as trustworthy. And they seem to have a million questions. That's my experience.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  A million questions. They like to know every single scenario. And old people, yes, that's also a lot of the beta people too, and a lot of women too. Women love to know. They, they buy comfort. So they like to know every single detail, exactly what happens when you purchase all the next steps and everything. So if somebody needs a little bit more comfort, I would say you sit there with them and you give them the comfort. And those people will be your best customers because they ask every single question in the book, you know? They, they won't come to you later being like, oh, well, I didn't know this. I didn't know this. I didn't know this. You're going to be like, you asked me every single question, you know, like we went over everything. So in my experience, they're actually some of my favorite customers because they know what they're buying.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I totally agree. So Shelby, you started your sales career with door to door selling. And I honestly couldn't think of a better sales training to get thicker skin, get comfortable with rejection. So first off, tell us about your door to door selling experience and what kind of sales skills did you learn?

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Everything under the sun. Oh my gosh. So I started doing door to door sales when I was 18 years old. I was working like all these different jobs in college and I just remember thinking I'm going to be successful. I just don't know how. I was so scared of sales because that was the one like business internship that I haven't dabbled in. And so I remember talking to one of my mentors and he's like, yeah, I did door to door sales. Great skill set, made a lot of money. And I'm like, okay, cool. So I'll, I'll go out and try it. I went out there, first of all, I almost quit before I went out there. Thank God I didn't quit because I wouldn't be here. But, um, my first summer, it was amazing. I was the only girl. And I really kind of like what you were saying when you, what you felt at your corporate job, that's kind of what I felt is like,

• 36:10Speaker 01

  no matter how much I sold, no matter how top of the leaderboards I was every single week, there's just a level of like respect that's hard to get when you work with either older people in a corporate setting or all guys, all sales bros. But I loved it. I just loved being able to walk up to a door and somebody opened the door and they're like, oh my gosh, how do I get this girl off of my door? Um, I'm cooking dinner right now. Like I just put my kid to bed. That, and then you say the right words and kind of like disarm them. And then they're giving you their Amex like 10 minutes later. It's the most confident building activity you could possibly do.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  And that skill set carries over so well. It's, I always like to say, door to door sales is like the number one sales skill set that you could possibly get. It's the hardest because you have to go out to a market, obviously be in person, a lot more rejection. There's a lot better opportunities than door to door, but like starting out, that skill set you'll learn is insane.

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because it's like, kind of like cold calling, but in real life and nobody invited you to their house.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  So it's not like in a store, like I got my sales skills, like I worked in so many clothing stores, right?

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  And that gave me a lot of experience, but people were coming into my house. Right. You're like going to, like, they're like, we're like busy right now. Go away.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. Yeah. Busy right now. Uh, sometimes like you even have to get them out of the house. So like, everybody has the Ring cameras now. A lot of people see a door to door sales rep and they're like, oh, they don't even answer the door. So a lot of it is like the art of trying to get somebody out of the house and piquing their curiosity within the first like five seconds. That way they just at least listen. Like a big thing with that industry is just getting people to listen to your sales pitch. Versus like what you're saying, warm leads. This is why like my academy is for high ticket sales because it's all warm leads. And I try to tell the girls, I'm like, you have no idea how good you have it. Like somebody's actively coming to you.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  I would have killed for that. I know. So it's great skill set, but

• 38:21Speaker 00

  Well, now you know how to handle rejection. And I know that you say

• 38:24Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  We need to love rejection, not just like we need to love it. We need to make sure not we're not being soft girls. So what do you mean by that?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  So, okay, there's a couple of things with that. Number one, the rejection thing. I always train people, especially with mindset, because sales is a big with mindset. Is it's pretty much a math equation. So if your closing ratio is, let's say, forty percent, that means every 10 people you talk to, you're going to close four of them. So if if the first six that you talk to are just no, no, no, no, no, you should be so excited because literally mathematically, the next four are gonna buy from you. They have to. And so you know that not every single person is going to say no to you forever. So the more no's you get, I look at it like you're just sifting through the non-qualified buyers and getting to the qualified buyers that are actually going to buy from you. So it's more like every time I get a no, I'm like, okay, for sure. Like, thank you. Like, I'll never

• 39:16Speaker 01

  call you again. Well, that's false because I will be blowing up your phone. But it's like, okay, done, done, done, done. And then I wait for the person that's like actually sitting down serious, ready to go. So yeah, the old saying of every no is closer to yes is so true, but it's more of like the mathematical reasoning behind it is true. So that and then the soft girl. I have a problem with the soft girl. I can't do it. It's a big trend right now. And it's like the soft girl, demure life, sitting back, relaxing, letting a man pay for your whole life, not really working too hard, letting everything come to you, attracting, which I'm all here for.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  A lot of the things that I do with my girls is mindset, spirituality, law of attraction, being delusional manifestation. So I get that. But you can't just do that. You have to do that. And then you have to put your actions behind that. You have to put your money where your mouth is and actually show up. Like, you can't show up to a sales call and be like, I'm gonna manifest this person to buy. And then you get hit with one objection and you're like, yeah, for sure. I'll follow up with you tomorrow. It's like, no, you're gonna sit there and you're it's gonna be uncomfortable and it's gonna be require a lot of effort, but you're gonna sit there. You're gonna roll objection after objection after objection until they either buy from you or literally want to kill you. No, I'm kidding. But

• 40:38Speaker 01

  so I always tell my girls, like, yes, you can be soft girl, but when it comes to sales and when it comes to like work, you're hard girl. So you can like turn it on and off. But if you want to make money, there's literally no way around it when it comes to sales.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, you gotta just go after it. You gotta make sure that they know that you know your stuff. And that's not a passive thing. That's like an alpha attitude that you have to have.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  It is. Yeah. So I see that trend. I'm like, I don't know about that.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. And not to mention those girls that just get their lives paid for. They have no control over their lives at the end of the day. And

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Well, and that's the thing is like money's energy. And so I totally get like, you know, you're marrying somebody and they want to take care of you. I love that because that's like a protective energy of like, you're good. I got you. But it shouldn't be the be all end all because what if said person leaves?

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Which is a true reality. Nobody ever thinks they're gonna leave in the beginning. So it's always knowing that you either have a skill set that you could turn into money at any point in time, which in my opinion, I could sell anything. You could sell anything. So it's like learning skill sets that can never be taken away from you or having a business that can never be taken away from you. Is always just the most confident building thing with a woman to know that she could if she wanted to, but also just the smartest.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally. Makes you more attractive, too. So

• 42:02Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  You were bringing up objections before, and I know there's like a limited number of things that people can really say, like, you can actually think through all the objections that somebody's gonna have for your product or service. So I'm gonna rattle off an objection and then I want you to tell me how to respond. Okay?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Okay, for sure. I love that. Okay.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  I need more time.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  How much time do you need?

• 42:26Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe a couple of months.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Couple of months. Okay, let's double it. I'll give you, you said you want one month. I'll give you two months. Just because if we were to move forward, I would want to make sure that you are super sure, a hundred percent confident. Because in this program, these people are confident. These people are ready to go. And a big part of my job is making sure that everybody's good to go when they get in. That way we have proper testimonials. So if you're not there yet, let's just not make a decision. And in the meantime, while you're doing your job and kind of thinking about it, I'll do my job and send you over all of the information in order to make sure that when you do think about it, you'll have a really good educated decision. So what are two things you'd want me to include in those email flows? That way you can make an educated decision.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  I love that. You're taking it away and people want what they can't have. So suddenly they go, oh, no, no, I really only need, maybe I only need a week, you know?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  So you're taking away what they, you're taking it away. Now they can't have it.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  And it's kind of like the, that's what I say as like the hot girl is when it comes to a point, and normally this, I need to think about it objection is just a smokescreen. So I handled it as it was a real objection. But most of the time it's a smokescreen. So it's just kind of like, no, for sure. And kind of like brush over it because people are just scared at the end of the day. But when it's a true, like, you've done it a couple of times. They're like, no, I need to think about it. It's like, okay, give them the time then. But you give them fake time, the illusion of that. And then you can just get back into the sales pitch by giving them what they want, disarming them, and then getting back into the pitch.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  So you're saying by asking them, like, what do you need to see in their proposal? You feel like that's gonna shorten up the time that they actually wanted or just or like they didn't really want the time, they wanted the information?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yes. So that that was my point with that is you would then say, oh, well, can you send me over some reviews? Can you send me over some testimonials? Can you send me over everything that's included, all the package options? And then as you're like typing up the email, you're like, oh, my God, for sure. Like, I actually have all the testimonials pulled up here. Let me just show you. And then you're just right back into the sales pitch. And you're showing them. If that doesn't work, another angle I like to use is convenience. And this is something that you tie back in from earlier is, you know, if you're a busy mom or you're a business owner, whatever you're doing. I always like to say, you can always think about it, but to be honest, like, do you want to think

• 44:51Speaker 01

  about it? You know, like, you're a busy mom, you're a business owner, you're never gonna have intentional time like we do right now to make a decision. And when it comes with a decision, maybe you need time, but what you need is more information in order to make a great decision. So we have the time and we have the information, which is me.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  What are two things? Yeah.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  And depending on the solution, if they say they need more time, you could be like, well, how much time have you wasted not making a decision? Or how much time and money are you gonna lose? If you wait two months to implement XYZ, right?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  One of my favorite things, too, is when people are like, let me sleep on it. I always like to say, well, don't you get the best sleep when you already made a decision? It's already good to go. You're gonna get the best sleep ever. Once we make that decision. So do you want to wait a while? And be thinking about this every night? Oh, should I do this? Or do you want to just do it? We've been talking for like an hour. Let's just do it. You'll get the best sleep tonight. Let's go.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  Okay, how about it's too expensive?

• 45:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you get what you pay for. Depends on what you're selling, but I always position myself as the most expensive person. So I'm telling this person, like, for sure, there's 40 other people lying down the street that'll take your business in a heartbeat. But when it comes to a service-based business, or when it comes to a fitness program, a health program, whatever you're selling, if you're gonna do it, you might as well do it right. And so if you want cheap, that's definitely not us. There's other people. But if what you want is a great product, a great service and a good reputation behind that, that's actually going to get you the results, then that's what we do.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  I love that. And when somebody tells me I'm too expensive. So I know with me, like, I have two businesses. I have my podcast network. I have my social media agency. And if somebody tells me my social, yeah, if somebody tells me my social media services are too expensive, we're like the number one LinkedIn marketing agency. We charge $10,000 a month for LinkedIn. So a lot of people are like, whoa, that's expensive. And I'll be like, well, do you sell? I'm like, are you selling right now? Yes. If I made you an influencer on LinkedIn and you got 10x to 100x more leads every month, you would make that $10,000 back right away, right?

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Given the track record of who stayed with you. I'm like, you know, I've had these clients that have been with me for six years and they're happily paying the 10K, you know?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Well, and I also like to do the inverse. So you can do the positive of like, obviously, like, it costs this much a month. But I mean, let's say we get you two clients to make that back in this, whatever. So that's the positive, but also the negative, which is the opportunity cost of like, okay, so you're right here. What's the cost of you not doing this? Let's say we can get you here and you're here, you're actually losing all of this over the next two months.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  So, you know, so you can take that positive, which I love. And then you can also do the negative if you want to get more mathematical and more granular about it in like a make money offer. So I love that.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it's really important to actually ask questions so that like, for example, I know how much they're charging for their offer, how they get leads, what are their typical way of getting leads? Do they close deals on their own? So it's important to know, like, whatever your business is, what questions do you need to ask the person? So that if they do give you the objection, you're like, well, no, if you get two clients, it pays for the service, I'm gonna get you 100 clients a month, you know?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Well, that's the biggest thing with these objections that I try to teach my girls is in door to door, it was like objection central. But in high ticket and anything that's more warm leads than anything, you can do so much front end work to where these objections shouldn't even really be that big of a deal towards the end. I call this shutting doors. So I basically say there's about six different doors that are open, you know, time, price, anything that they've done before, fear, priority, money. And you need to shut every single door. That way they can't open it back up later into the sales pitch. So like, for example, the objection that, you know, you just gave me the first one of, I need to think about it, or it's not the right time.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  I would ask a question in the beginning of the sale saying something like, okay, well, I mean, you've been in this business for quite some time. Like, why haven't you done this before? Or on a scale from one to 10, how ready are you in order to get real results with it? And they'll say maybe, you know, seven, okay, seven's really high, but why not a 10? What would make you a 10? And so those kind of like shutting the doors in the beginning will prevent them from saying, I need to think about it. And even if they do, you can use the ammo that you got. To the objection, to like tailor to that person. Yeah. So it's a little bit of a different way to train every industry, but I prefer the warm lead one all the way because these cold hard objections, it's like, if you do it right, you'll have so

• 49:25Speaker 01

  much ammo to where you're actually excited to hear an objection. So you're like, girl, you just told me you were a nine. Like, come on, let's be fucking for real, you know?

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Basically, like the front end work of the sale, everybody's like, when they see me, they're like, oh, well, how do I roll this objection? What do I say when they say this? How do I close somebody? It's like, okay, the end should be the easiest part. The beginning is the part that everybody overlooks. Everybody just hops on and is like, oh, nice to meet you, blah, blah. Let me show you a little bit about what we do. Price. Oh, I need to think about it. It's expensive. I've already done something like this before. And it's like, because you didn't do the front part, right?

• 50:01Speaker 00

  Yes. So yeah, exactly. Like if you get them to tell you what their objections are, or to like dismantle these objections in the beginning with those doors that you mentioned, they're not going to want to go back on their word. They're not going to want to contradict themselves because people always want to be right.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. Well, that's what I always say is people believe zero percent of the words that come out of a salesperson's mouth because duh, you're a sales rep. But they believe a hundred percent of the words that come out of their own mouth.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can't go back on later, because it would feel so unnatural and it would make them, like you said, not right.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  To go back on their word. Also, I know a lot of the people watching are males. So I have a little analogy that I like to relate to a lot of the guys, but a lot of people underestimate the front end of the sale. But if you think about it, I always like to relate it back to dating. It's like when you take a girl out on a date, you know, you're gonna do, you're gonna set the date up right. You're gonna butter her up, open up her chair, pay for the meal, tell her what to wear, all this stuff, like send her a car. That way, the close at the end of the date is so much easier, right? If you don't do the whole date right, then you're just gonna be digging yourself out of a hole when you go to kiss her at the end of the night, you know?

• 51:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love that. Good analogy. Okay, I tried something similar and it didn't work out.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Um, are you married?

• 51:21Speaker 00

  No.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Do you want to be married?

• 51:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Have you had an ex-boyfriend before?

• 51:26Speaker 00

  Yes, many.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Do we hate him?

• 51:29Speaker 00

  No, I don't hate anyone.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  My, my, I know that was funny, but my point is, you know, if your goal is still the same, it doesn't matter what else you've tried before. That shouldn't stop you from still reaching that goal. So same, like, I hate my ex-boyfriends as well, but I still want to get married, have that family and everything. So that doesn't stop me from going on dates. So what should stop you from trying out a different avenue in order to get to XYZ, whatever you're selling? That's one of my favorite ones, just because as soon as I ask that, they're like, I mean, yes, or I mean, no, like, it doesn't matter what they say. And then I like to use analogies to sell a lot.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Just because it makes things come in people's brains. So pretty much no matter what objection, you can use an analogy, like one with prices, like organic groceries, you can do cost seg with different Starbucks drinks or gas tanks. But um, I always like to bring it back to something that they know, to where they're like, oh, my God, yeah, I get it. And so the marriage one is easy because it's like, okay, well, do you still want to get leads for your business? Do you still want to blah, blah, blah?

• 52:28Speaker 00

  The problem hasn't gone away.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Right. Um, and then you can, you can also ask them like, and this is something that I would ask in the beginning of the pitch, is what else have you tried before? Why didn't you like that? What are you looking for? That way, when they're like, at the end of the pitch, they're not going to tell me, oh, well, I've done something else. It's like, we already talked about that, girl, you know? We're already good on that.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I love what you say. Uh, you say like, an objection is like an infection. If, if you don't resolve it, it just gets worse and worse down the, down the pipeline.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And like, the infection starts in the beginning. So that would start, for example, like if you're on a call with a girl and she has like fat rock, she's obviously married, right? And if you don't ask the proper questions and shut the door of the spouse objection in the beginning, you're gonna get it at the end. Like nine times out of 10. And so you can either, one, save an hour of your time asking Stacy about, oh, like, has your husband, have you guys ever talked about this before? What does he think about this? Does he even know that you're on this call? Do you guys have a budget set aside for this? Not if she's like, oh, yeah, no, he does, he handles everything. He doesn't even know I'm on this call. I would just be like, okay, no problem. You go grab your husband and we'll schedule a follow-up

• 53:45Speaker 01

  call with your husband. Cause I want everybody to be in on the same position.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Um, because you can just waste so much time if you don't resolve the spouse objection in the beginning.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. But you want to be careful not to assume that the guy is bringing in all the money.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  One hundred percent. You would be surprised how many times the guys would give the spouse objections. It's, it's pretty fifty fifty. The, the worst thing that all the guys that I would train to door to door is they would always assume that the husbands would do it. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like, a lot of the guys need their wife's approval. Um, so you really do never know. So that's why it's important to ask those questions in the beginning.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  Do you feel like today's buyers are different than the past? Like, how has today's buyers changed over time?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Today's buyers are super turned off by like scripts and salesy sales pitches. And I think today's sales process doesn't even start with the sales call. I think it starts with content of whatever you're selling and those first points of contact. So everything's a sale. It's not just a sales call. It's not just a sales pitch. It's, you know, if you're selling a program for a coach and they're putting content out, that's part of the sale. And so a lot of the times when, you know, we work with offers, I like to look at the offers content. It's like, okay, are you using the marketing agencies that are just doing like the big neon text? And you sound like you're scripted. It's like, okay, there's a lead from that is probably not

• 55:14Speaker 01

  going to be as good of a lead as somebody that's just raw, genuine, real with their audience, that's super upfront with what they sell. And they know exactly what they're getting into before they get on to a sales call. And so a lot of the training that we do with my girls is like, okay, once you finish my training, we also coach you on like how to find the high ticket offers to sell for. And so the girls, it's like, okay, how do you evaluate how good the online coach is doing with the sales? It's like, okay, you look at the content, you look at the lead flow, you look at how interactive they are. And so I think the sales starts with that. And then that's why it's like, the closing call is closing. Makes our job 10 times easier.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. I really want to get into online selling with you and social media, but let's actually talk about close. Like, what's your, you know, best guidance for closing a deal?

• 56:06Speaker 01

  I think that soft closing a deal multiple times throughout a sales pitch is the best way to go before you get to a hard close. So I always like to layer in, I do a couple of different soft closes, a temperature gauge, and then a hard close. And this is for, this is for warmly. It's a lot different than if I were doing like cold calling door to door. But soft closing is essentially any sort of close that makes it a little bit soft, a little bit contingent. So I would say something like, if we were to even set something up, would you want to do this package or this package? Would you want to do the calls on this day or this day? What would be a priority for you if you were to be in the program? What would be your commitment level if you were to join the program? So it's, you can kind of tell where somebody's at before you

• 56:48Speaker 01

  hard close them, rather than just going in for the close. And you tell that based off of their responses. So they can respond one of two ways. Number one is, yeah, I would definitely want to do like the whole thing. Or they could say like, if we were going to do it, then I would want to do this. And that's the contingent part. And so with that person, you would sit there, build a lot more value before you go in for the close. Cause the worst thing you can do, my job is all preventing the objections. The worst thing you can do is not know where the customer stands, go in for the hard close, and then they just tell you some BS of like, yeah, for sure, but I would need to think about it. And then you're just digging yourself out of a hole. So it's

• 57:29Speaker 01

  layering the soft closes in, kind of getting that temperature gauge of where they're at. And then the close once you know that this person's like pretty good to go.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  How do you feel about giving the price on, you know, the discovery call? Do you like to, to wait to give the price? Or what's your strategy there?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I teach my girls, so like, for example, like DM setting or the discovery calls, some setters, no price at all. Um, but it's hard because you also want to make sure that this person's a qualified buyer, that they have some sort of money, or else there's no point in getting on a sales call. So the rule of thumb that I always give my girls with their offers is whatever your lowest package is, um, half of that has to be the minimum, because there's payment plans a lot of the time. So let's say your lowest package is $3,000. I would have the setters qualify them with 1,500. Do you have at least $1,500 to get on the sales call? Cause if they have 1,500, then they can sell them the lowest package at a split, right? But

• 58:28Speaker 01

  you never give the full price because there's zero value built. And also, this is very, very important with setting up follow-up calls with spouses, is I always tell them like, okay, for our sake, just because we built so much value, I don't want your husband to be like, oh, can I join this program for this amount? Obviously, he's going to say no, right? So let's just do this. We'll go over everything with your husband tomorrow at 5:00 PM. Do me a favor, let him come the same way that you came, blank state, just kind of to learn, and then we can go over the packages. So I don't want them to talk about, you know, even though they probably will, but I don't want them to say, oh, marketing agency for $5,000. They're just be like, wait, what? No, there's no value built.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So basically, the initial calls with call setters, not the expert, but once you actually go over everything in detail, what they're getting, ask them questions, whatever, you can then give them the price at the end.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. So the price is going to be in the close at the end. And the close for high ticket is so simple. It's just, and the investment in order to get you to XYZ is going to be blank. Shut up. It's just a statement close. It's easy. Um, or you could do an option close with packages, depends.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  Yep. And I love the language that you used. You didn't say cost, you said the investment, which is way more positive.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Investment, and then you add in the goal KPI. So the investment in order to get you to those 10,000 leads a month, the investment in order to get, uh, the 10 to 15 pounds loss that you were telling me about. You remind them of what they're buying before you give the cost.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  Okay. Last question on sales, then we're going to get into social media. Talk to me about reverse selling.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. So I always say, sales isn't a chase, it's a dance. And so mo- ninety percent of salespeople are just product pushing, product pushing, objection, super aggressive. And when you chase somebody, they're gonna run away. So a dance is knowing when to push a little bit, but then when to pull back. So when you ask me, you know, like, listen, Shelby, like, I really need to think about it. It's like, okay, no problem. At this point, they would have told me that a couple of times. So it's like, okay, no problem. How long do you need? They never really say a month. They normally say like, two days. But then that's when you pull back a little bit. Because you can't give your energy too much. You need to at some point reverse the energy and reverse sell.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Um, another way I love to reverse sell is what I call the hot potato technique. So most sales reps, they'll go, oh, well, why should I go with you guys? And they'll go, oh, because we have this, we have this, we have this, we're the best here, here, and here. It's like, no, your, your energy is going like this. You're just selling them. You're chasing them. You're selling yourself. The hot potato sales technique is exactly what it sounds. It's like playing hot potato. You get the potato, it's hot, you throw it right back. Um, same thing in sales. So I teach my girls to say, okay, well, why should we go with you guys? Well, what's important to you? Oh, well, this, this, and this. Okay. Well, why are those things important to you? Oh, because in the past, we've had this, this, and this.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Now they're selling themselves on why they should be a part of your program or whatever you're selling. Um, and it comes back to what you were saying of people believe zero percent of the words that come out of your mouth. But they'll believe every word that they say. So it's about asking the right questions and making them sell themselves.

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  Something that I like to do on my sales calls is I try to like disqualify somebody from even being able to work with me. Like, I'm so exclusive that actually I need to qualify you to be my client. Talk to us about why that works.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I actually call it the gatekeeper. And so I tell my girls, and this is something that could really only work for warm leads, right? Like, I can't, I could never go up to somebody's door and act like I'm interviewing them, the gatekeeper, right? So it's different, but in warm leads, a hundred percent. And I tell them, like, you have to have the mindset. Cause in high ticket, this person's probably been following the creator for quite some time, finally wants to book a call, et cetera. So you need to have the mindset of this person just took an hour out of their day to sit on a sales call. There's a reason for that. I don't know about you, but I have to have a pretty big pain point in order to take an hour out of my very busy day. In order to talk about a sales pitch and getting sold a program.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Um, so having that mindset of this person has a problem. Our program is the best possible solution for this person with this problem. And we, and we only let people in who are going to be good testimonials. And so when I was rolling that one objection, I said, and part of my job is to make sure that we're screening the people that we let in the program because we don't want you to not succeed. So if you're not that committed, take that time for sure. And that kind of makes them pull back a little bit, the reverse selling of, oh, no, I am committed though. Like, I would want to do this.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, so gatekeeper of, you know, between this person who has a problem and this program that has their solution. And you're interviewing them, asking them all the questions to see if they're going to be a great testimonial. And when you tell them at the end, you know, more of a sincere close of, I really do see, see you being one of our next testimonials. Or when you're on the testimonial side, telling them, this will be you. You know, can you see that for yourself? Can you see yourself being on the side in three months when you X, Y, Z? Get all the rental properties, kill it in this, whatever. It comes off a lot more genuine when you treat it like that.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it's also good to have different programs for people who are at different levels. Like, listen, you're not ready for, you know, totally all the services that I can do for you with the whole team. And like, you're not ready for that yet because I don't want you to spend money and not get your ROI. But why don't you take my course and get started and, you know what I mean? So it's like having different packages is really important.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  Okay. So let's talk about social media. You've done an incredible job building Instagram and TikTok. What is like your thought process behind building a community, building a brand? Like, how are you able to just like, kind of come out of nowhere in the last year and just dominate the female sales persona?

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Okay. I always get asked this question and my answer is very simple. A lot of people try to do social media instead of just actually being the expert in something that people want to watch. Like, everybody's always worried about what hashtags, what times should I post, what mark? And it's like, okay, people see through that nowadays. Like you said, cause social media is sales at the end of the day. People see through that. So I genuinely think the reason why this time last year I had less than 10,000 followers and now I'm almost at 600,000 on Instagram is because I can pull out my camera and just talk about some random closing tip or throughout my day, it's all I think about, I'm consumed by it.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  So when I hear a sales pitch of somebody on the street trying to sell me something, I'm like, oh, that was actually like, pretty interesting. I'm going to make a video about that. So it's actually being the thing before you like, put that on social media. That way, when people see it, they're like, oh, this, this girl actually knows what she's talking about and she loves it.

• 1:05:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. You're like the go-to person for sales. Everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page. They know the energy you're gonna bring, the vibe. They know you're talking to women primarily. But anybody can learn from your page, which I'm sure you've got a lot of male followers too.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  So many males. Yeah. They always comment. They're like, I'm not a girl. Also, I'm not even in sales, but help me with my confidence. Thank you. It's funny. And then, um, like the second part about building a brand is super interesting. So I had a video that I posted maybe like nine months ago, went mega viral. It was, um, all the girls want to live the rich Porsche Pilates mom lifestyle. They want to go on walks, Pilates, drive a nice car and just kind of like have that be their day. You don't have to marry an ugly bald dude. You can give it to yourself in the way that I give it to myself as sales.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  And so that video kind of popped and created this brand of like Porsche Pilates, matcha, sales, hot girl, sales. And so it wa- it was awesome. It was super fun. And now that's like all of my girls, they all like wear their hair in ponytails, the gold hoops, and they post their matcha. So it's, it really is like a huge community and a real brand. And it's fun because that's the life I live every single day. So it's fun posting my little matcha in the morning. And the girls are like, oh, love it.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. You have built this, like, everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page. And you're also showing different elements of you. You're talking about sales. Everybody knows you're going to teach them about sales, but then you're into working out, you're into eating healthy. And so you've got, you, you can be dynamic. I always get this question, like, can I be a dynamic person on social media? And it's like, yeah, people want to know the real you.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  One of the things people wish I was more dynamic about is my dating life. People are always like, oh, can you do like day in the life, get ready with me, like debriefs about your dates? I'm like, no, I already like, guys probably already look at my social media and they're like, oh my gosh, like intimidated. This girl's loud. She's going to try to sell me on a date. So I'm like, I can't talk too much about my dating life on social media because then nobody's going to want to date me, you know?

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  Well, let's take a little tangent here. Two very, two very successful women. How is dating for you? Do, are men just really intimidated, especially with your age?

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Okay. Everybody thinks that. Everybody, the comments I get are like, oh, it's probably going to be so hard for her to find a man, blah, blah, blah. I have never had more options.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  And a lot, like, in the, like, the least weird way to say that.

• 1:08:16Speaker 00

  Aren't great. Cause I feel the same way, but it's like, it's almost like I can't make a choice.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I agree. And I also don't have the time to go on all these dates. So I always like to say, being a successful woman that makes her own money, it disqualifies all the people that wouldn't make sense anyways. Cause like, the broke guy is never going to be like, oh, like, that's my wife. You know, so it's like, but I also don't want somebody that doesn't have goals.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  So it kind of like disqualifies the people that wouldn't work out anyways. Um, and then the options that you do have are like, okay, these are actually like, great, great guys. And I want to be with somebody that wants their wife to be a badass and have her own thing and that I can have intellectual conversations with. So, yeah. I think it's, it's been going great, but I also just don't have a lot of time. So.

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I hear you. All right. Well, Shelby is single. If you guys want to take her out on a date.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Yes, you have to live in Miami.

• 1:09:13Speaker 00

  So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral?

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  So B-roll videos do really well, which is just like the five to second videos with text on it. Um, those ones do really well with me. I like to say in another life, I was the best copywriter on the planet. Cause I, I do all my social media myself. I don't hire a single.

• 1:09:31Speaker 00

  I was gonna ask you, do you do, it looks like it's all you.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Yes, I hire, um, actually that's false. I have, uh, two like intern copywriters that help me out. But I only have them do bullet points for stories and then they only touch stories. By the way, nobody touches my like actual videos, contents, broadcast channel. And it's because I've tried it before because it is a lot running the whole social media thing with how much content I put out. But when it's not you, people can tell. And it's also not fun to post for me. I don't know. Um, and when it's me, like it, it just does so much better.

• 1:10:07Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  So I'm like, I'd rather put out less stuff and it actually be me. But yeah, I do literally everything myself. The best stuff that does well on Instagram for me, there's like two buckets. One bucket is the B-roll with the funny copy on it. But the other bucket is a really funny sales tip. So I'll start a video by saying something out of pocket, like you have to be a brat in sales and people are like, wait, what? But then I follow it up with a really good sales tactic. That's like, okay, well, when somebody asks you a question, you ask them a question back. That's bratty, but like, that's how you get the deal done. And people are like, okay, that makes sense. And those videos get the most amount of followers. The B-roll ones are like, no, they're just like for fun, but the sales tip ones are what really grow a page.

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  Kind of shock them with something that they're like, what is she talking about?

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:58Speaker 00

  And then give them a really smart response.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  And then they're like, okay, that makes sense.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. I'm so excited because, uh, I've been like heads down, building my company for four years, basically like creating other influencers.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:11Speaker 00

  Monetizing other influencers and for my brand, I just like kind of on autopilot. I have a team. I've got reels.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  It's not me, like you were saying, and this year I'm just like trying to get everything off my plate. And I'm like, gonna just go super hard and just teach and just go back to my roots. Cause that's how I started is like, I grew up on LinkedIn, just teaching people. And I can't, I can't, I can't wait to get back to it. And you've been an inspiration because I'm like, damn, she's so good at her videos. Like I was like, I, I need to just do that.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Oh my, no, you do. Make that your 2025.

• 1:11:43Speaker 00

  That is my goal.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  You are such a badass. I'm like, you just flip the camera up and start talking. I guarantee that's awesome.

• 1:11:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can't wait. Couple last questions here. I know you've got a course. I'm sure there's so many people tuning in. I know that you do webinars for your course. You probably got a bunch of different sales funnels. So just walk us through how you actually sell online. What's a good salesy type post? Do you use many chat webinars? Like what are you doing to sell? What are your main ways to sell online?

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  So it's funny because I guess this is like a sales tactic, but it's actually true is we, I don't let people just join. Like you can't book a call from my content. Go to the link in bio, get on a call with the team and get on boarded. So I only open my program, which is called she sells at the end of masterclasses, at the end of webinars. And I only open it for like 20 minutes and it's a time where like I have girls that DM me all the time. Hey, can you send me the link? I want to join she sells. And we're like, nope, gotta come to the masterclass. Two reasons. Number one, women are going to be successful when they know exactly what's in it, when they're super hot, when they're all going together. And so I make them sit on a masterclass for an hour, learn the ins and outs of it for free.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  And then it's like, okay, now that you know it, join and you only have 20 minutes to join. So you gotta, you gotta join now.

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  So you're like condensing their decision time. They can't talk themselves out of it. If you only give them 20 minutes, they only have whatever's fresh in their head. They can't go talk, they can't have their spouse talk them out of it. They gotta decide right then. And they have to pay within that 20 minutes. That's genius.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Yes. They, and the reason, like the reason is too, it is a sales tactic, but it also is more of a fulfillment reason too, because they all get in at the same time. The way that I do it is it's not cohort style, but kind of is. And women love to do things with their girls. Like we don't even go to the bathroom alone. So it's like knowing that you're alone on a call, but you're also joining with all of the girls at the same time from across the world is that's how I built my community. Like my community on social media is cool, whatever. My community in my program is insane. I will go to war with any other community in the world because my girls are so like, they bleed she sells.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  They, and it's awesome.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  That makes so much sense. So it's like people want to shared identity. They want to talk the same language. They want to feel like they're part of a group. And so having them make that decision on the call together, it's like they all like, kind of got like not hazed in a sorority together at the same time, but kind of it's like that bond. Yeah, I love that.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  When I tell them too, like, I mean, when you're purchasing anything and especially like getting into sales, that's something that's scary. And so that's my time to kind of talk to them. And a lot of it is like mental of like, okay, when a decision is scary, that's how you know it's right. Because that's how you know you're growing. And so it's scary for everybody on the call right now, but like if it's calling you, like I do invite you to join. And it's also just more fun for me because we get to onboard all the girls at the same time. There's not people just trickling in. We can kind of know like, okay, this group is going at this pace and this pace and this pace. So, um, it is nice.

• 1:14:52Speaker 00

  That's really cool. And are you collecting their emails and then retargeting them if they don't sign up to join the next webinar? And like, how cohesive is your strategy in that way?

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I have a whole team. So I have a team of 22 and they handle a lot of like the backend emails, a lot of the sequences and the stuff that, you know, I am not an expert on. But a lot of it is retargeting. And what we found is that, um, somebody doesn't just join a class and then join at the end. A lot of people join a couple of classes and it's funny because it's the same class.

• 1:15:24Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  And it's, you would never think, you would never think that, but the way I run my webinars is super energetic. I have caffeine. I have mustaches. I do role plays. I handle objections live. Like it's fun. And so I think people join for the energy, but when they come like a couple of times, they're like, okay, okay. I finally feel like I'm going to do it now. Okay. Let's do it.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  It's so true. Some people need to go two, three times and then they'll buy on the webinar. And webinars are so smart people. I've got lots of content on webinars, guys. I interviewed Jason Fladline, Russell Brunson, just on webinars. So look those up if you're interested because webinars to me are like the hottest way to sell something, low to high ticket. It doesn't even matter. It's just like the best way to sell in my opinion.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  I agree. And I, people are like, oh, why don't you have sales? You have so many sales girls. Why don't you have them take calls for you? Um, I'm the best like sales girl to sell my product.

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  And I just, I love, I genuinely feel like I was born for webinars.

• 1:16:22Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  I was born for it. Like I'm sitting here selling one, selling one to many is so fun because the way I like to sell during a webinar is I'll take every sort of customer segment, every sort of target market of our girls. And overcome their objections. So like you have the moms, but then you have the girls that are working part-time. You have the students. And so you're like, well, if you're a mom, I'm talking to you, handle that. If you're a student, I'm talking to you, handle that. If you're international, I'm talking to you, handle that. So you kind of get.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  You know what I think it is that I realized? Well, I think we're just, we love sales so much and like webinar is like the ultimate sales challenge.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:16:59Speaker 00

  You know, and so it's just like so fun and it's, it's really fun. I love to do, I think I look forward to them.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Same. They're my, they're my favorite part of the week.

• 1:17:08Speaker 00

  I love that. Okay. So last question. You are living in Miami and you just moved there and you talked about the Miami effect. So what is the Miami effect?

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Yes. So the Miami effect is a pretty known thing, but it's basically when you move to Miami, you get hotter and richer. No argument at all. You just get hotter and richer. And the reason is because everybody that lives in Miami, and when I say Miami, I'm really talking about Brickell, which is where I live. People are like, no, they're not. And I'm like, where are you from? They're like little Havana. I'm like, okay, well, that's not where I live. So we're talking about like Brickell, the city. So where I live in Brickell, I mean, the rent is insane. The, you buy a coffee, it's $15. So like you have to make money in order to live there. So everybody in the elevators, everybody at the coffee shops on your walks makes money and is cool.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  And in order to make money, you have to have good skillsets. You have to have some sort of business. You have to be a cool person. So it's like you move to Miami, you start meeting all these cool people. Side note, Miami is the land of the fakers though. So you kind of have to like, there are a lot of people that are like real awesome, but that was one of the things where I first moved here. I thought everybody was like so real. Uh, they're really not, but for the most part, like people are making a lot of money. People are walking outdoors because the weather is awesome. Everybody here is so attractive. So you need to become attractive too. So it's like, you just rise to the level of the standard of Miami, which is your Miami effect.

• 1:18:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Environment is so important. People don't realize that, you know, if something's not working out for you, it could just be that you just need to move, meet new people, get inspired.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Well, in atomic habits, that's the biggest thing is you can change your habits like this, if you change your surroundings. That's why when somebody goes to rehab, they don't send them right back to the same apartment, same house, because you start associating your physical surroundings with your every single daily habits. So the best way to break your habits and literally change your life is to get into a different house, a different apartment, or even better, a bigger city. And I always like to explain it as like a fishbowl, like you're a little fish in a normal fishbowl, but then when you get a big fishbowl, you grow to fit the size of the bigger fishbowl. And that's why like a lot of people that have experienced something like this, if you can relate, um, you go back to your hometown and you feel like a big fish. And you're like, oh my gosh.

• 1:19:33Speaker 00

  I don't fit here anymore.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  I don't fit. So, and that's the best thing to feel. So.

• 1:19:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love that. So Shelby, this has been such a great conversation. Honestly, I feel like you spent so much game on sales. I think everybody learned so much. I end my show with two questions. I ask all of my guests, you can answer from the heart. What is one actionable thing our young improfitters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Spirituality, 100% every single day spirituality. When you have a why behind what you do, you'll become more profitable and no matter what you do. And that was the biggest game changer for me. As soon as I moved to Miami, weirdly enough, I got really into my faith. Um, as soon as I moved here and what happened a year ago, my whole life completely like, and it's not just because, you know, if you want to do that, then you know, get in touch with God. But I do genuinely think you just take more risks. You know who you are when you truly believe in something that's bigger than yourself. So no matter what that is, like find out what kind of spirituality you like to go into it and make sure that that's the first thing you do in the morning and last thing you do at night.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  And don't, before that, don't go on your phone, scroll on Tik Tok after you pray at night. That's like my biggest thing because your brain is so in like manifestation mode, dreaming all this, you're praying. And then you go to bed and that's your subconscious mind. So on a granular thing, spirituality will for sure.

• 1:20:57Speaker 00

  Love that. And what is your secret to profiting in life?

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Ooh, like in business or just like?

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  Just in life.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Energy, 100%. I like to explain to people, your energy will make your life better. No matter if you're a server, an accountant, if you're in sales, a business owner, people don't want to be around you if you're just sad and mopey all the time.

• 1:21:22Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  So the best thing that I do in order to be profitable in no matter what I do, whether that's relationships, business, even friendships, calling my mom, like people have these little interactions with you. And that makes up their story with you and their story with you determines what that relationship is going to be like and how much you love your life, because your life is all of your relationships. So carrying that positive energy and genuine energy too, with everything you do in life.

• 1:21:49Speaker 00

  Totally. You are so positive and it kept the whole conversation so engaging. I'd ask you a question, you'd be like, oh my God, I can't wait to answer this question.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  I know. This is so fun. You have such good questions too. I seriously enjoy this.

• 1:22:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. Thank you so much, Shelby. Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. So my Instagram is Shelby dot sap. My Tik Tok is Diary of a Door to Door Saleswoman, which I will be changing. So don't go there. Um, but go to my Instagram and then you can see my website, link in my bio.

• 1:22:15Speaker 00

  Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  Of course.