Pod Insights Wolf & Owl with Romesh Ranganathan and Tom Davis Hot Chip Aftermath, WhatsApp Groups and Holding Grudges About this episode Is it OK to wave at strangers in the street? Should you confront people about secret WhatsApp groups?
Should we have done the hot chip challenge before recording another episode? Probably not. Will Tom survive this episode? You’re about to find out…
Send your questions, dilemmas and voice notes to [email protected] and don’t forget to like and subscribe friends!
A Ranga Bee Production in partnership with Platform Media.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro01:33 Waving05:11 WhatsApp groups10:44 Overthinking interactions16:20 Holding grudges
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Transcript 0:15 Speaker 00 Welcome to the Wolf and Al email special. Full disclosure, we're recording this straight after-
0:20 Speaker 01 The hot chip challenge.
0:21 Speaker 00 The main episode where we did a hot chip challenge. Although we didn't do the full hot chip challenge, we ate probably what?
0:27 Speaker 01 I literally had a nibble of it.
0:28 Speaker 00 A quarter between us.
0:29 Speaker 01 Pieces here. Like, you're, by the way, my respect for you is, fucking, you were incredible.
0:35 Speaker 00 I was incredible, actually.
0:36 Speaker 01 That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen you do.
0:38 Speaker 00 Um, and it's a low bar, but... Are you alright?
0:42 Speaker 01 No, I literally, mate, it's like, you know, like a bird.
0:45 Speaker 00 Yeah.
0:45 Speaker 01 Like, as soon as a bird eats, it needs to shit.
0:48 Speaker 00 Do you really feel like, like, do you feel like you could shit right now?
0:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, like a fucking fiery big shit. It's like, I'm in bits, I'm loathe to make two episodes in a row where that becomes a main part of content, but... I'm literally in absolute pieces.
1:06 Speaker 01 Such acid reflux, like, I can't stop, like...
1:11 Speaker 01 I sort of feel like I'm just gonna sit there for the whole of it, it's like that.
1:14 Speaker 00 Okay, should we do some emails?
1:15 Speaker 01 A weekend at Bernie's.
1:16 Speaker 00 Oh, it's not nice when it moves into your stomach, is it?
1:19 Speaker 01 No. My tongue, my esophagus, everything's, it's ruffled, everything in my body. It's... And you've not even had any milk.
1:28 Speaker 00 I'm trying to delay it as long as possible. Okay, shall we do some emails?
1:33 Speaker 00 Hello Wolf and Al, I'm the confident Capy Baro. For the past few months, I developed a terrible habit of waving at people I don't recognise, just in case I do know them.
1:41 Speaker 01 I feel like I'm gonna be going into these almost drunk.
1:45 Speaker 01 This is actually the closest I've felt to being drunk in quite a while.
1:48 Speaker 00 It started as a polite half-waive, but now it's a full-arm commitment. Last week, I waved at a stranger in a car, then panicked and waved again to make it look intentional. My question is, how do I stop this before I'm known as a local maniac? Or do I fully commit and start a public-facing role like meh? I, how do you pronounce that word?
2:04 Speaker 01 Meh.
2:04 Speaker 00 Meh, yeah, I say meh-er.
2:06 Speaker 01 Meh, what, really?
2:07 Speaker 00 That's my natural, I deliberately changed it then, but normally I say meh-er. Fucking hell, it's starting to kick in now.
2:14 Speaker 01 Really? It's good that it's taken two episodes, I've literally been doing-
2:20 Speaker 01 Okay, I mean firstly, I'm gonna say now, I actually think what you're doing is a beautiful thing. And I think actually, if I saw someone waving, I've actually, by the way, I always, when I see someone waving, you know, when like someone waves, and you think they're waving at you.
2:33 Speaker 00 Oh god.
2:35 Speaker 01 Is it kicking in now?
2:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
2:36 Speaker 01 There we go. How comes it's taken so long?
2:39 Speaker 00 I don't know.
2:39 Speaker 01 Like a sleeper cell.
2:42 Speaker 01 Um.
2:44 Speaker 01 This is really a fucking bad idea to have come straight in and done this, but uh, I will wave back. I love, I love the thought of us living in a world where you wave strangers and that people.
3:00 Speaker 01 And that people.
3:01 Speaker 00 Oh god.
3:02 Speaker 01 And just a bit more friendly.
3:07 Speaker 00 It's burning inside me.
3:08 Speaker 01 It's so fucking molten, right? It's insane. I'm just, all I can think is, yeah, anyway.
3:18 Speaker 01 Um, I think you should keep on waving.
3:23 Speaker 01 I think you should keep on waving. And uh, I think it's a beautiful thing. I think what you're doing is really delicious and decent. And I think the more we as society come together and be nice. Um, uh, and I do think committing to it, and actually maybe if you're, you feel this way inclined, being a, a mayor or a mayor, uh, and someone front-facing could actually be the one thing that we're lacking, like someone in politics who's really good at. I do not anticipate this, I think I've got another email in me before everything explodes. I genuinely feel like the Death Star. And like Luke Skywalker has just flown into that little hole.
4:04 Speaker 00 Oh god.
4:07 Speaker 01 Rom, advice please?
4:09 Speaker 00 It's fucking churning in my stomach.
4:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know. Mine's stuck here, here.
4:16 Speaker 00 It just feels like acid inside.
4:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, it does. It feels like you've drunk acid, like battery acid.
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5:07 Speaker 00 Okay.
5:08 Speaker 01 Can we just ask something? I just want to, and I hate to do this, but how many people have died having these?
5:14 Speaker 00 Why do you think you're gonna die?
5:15 Speaker 01 I just feel awful. Go on, go, go. What do you think of waving?
5:21 Speaker 00 I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think it's fine to wave at people. And I think you just own it and make it your thing and, you know, waving's fine. And also, like, a lot of the time, if they don't, if they don't recognize you, a lot of the time, my inclination is only waved at me, and I didn't know them, I would just either wave back or just go, shit, I don't remember where that person, where I know that person. I would never assume that that person's in the wrong.
5:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:47 Speaker 00 I would always assume that I'm in the wrong. So I don't think there's any negatives.
5:49 Speaker 01 Well, he's beautiful. I think what you're doing is incredible and you should be...
5:53 Speaker 00 God!
5:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, for now, I am the suspicious sloth. I'm in several WhatsApp groups with friends, family, and work.
6:02 Speaker 00 I need the milk, I need the milk.
6:04 Speaker 01 And I convince every family, I convince every single one, has a second secret group without me. The evidence is thin, but compelling, delayed replies, inside jokes I don't understand, and people saying, "We've already discussed this," when we definitely haven't been there. My question is, how do I make peace with the idea there's a second group? Or should I start with my own? Or should I start my own without them? Sorry, that's, this is a lot of this is down to a hot chip and this is actually quite a, um. Fucking hell, this was insane. Like a jackass stunt. Giving people fucking advice about their lives while we're both potentially fucking exploding. Look, I'm gonna be quite honest. And I'm gonna cut to the point here, um, cause for once I've got no fucking flowers in me.
6:50 Speaker 01 Um. If you think this is happening, there's very little you can do about it. Certainly don't start your own group without them. Let me finish, please. I don't know if I've got much more left in me. I'm dying. My point is this. There's very little you can do in a sense of controlling what people are doing behind your back or. You, you know, and as someone who spends a lot of my life worrying about these things, it's very hypocritical of me. To say, don't worry about it, cause it's a constant thing I worry about. Like most people, I think we all worry about what other people are saying, what other people are doing behind our backs. The truth is this, you've got to try and make an inner peace with it. Set up another group and, you know.
7:33 Speaker 01 Where you talk about other people or you're being, um. You know, mean or, you know, whatever about other people will not make you feel any better because that's not who you are as a person. If that is them doing that, let that be on them. Let them be, let them be the sort of people who are mean and, you know. Disingenuous enough to have a group that is just being horrible about you. And I would arguably say, um, one of, one of the things that, you know, that I've learned in time is. One of the best releases I've ever had is actually going. Like, I had a lot of friends that I was friends with coming into my early forties. That I was like, these people are quite toxic and they're not making me feel any better about myself.
8:16 Speaker 01 And they're actually making, detracting from me feeling like a better version of me or a happy version of me. And some of that came down to bullying of other people or being mean about other people. And I thought, actually, that's not who I want to be. So I stepped away from a lot of those people and since doing that, I feel. Uh, I feel a better, better version of myself and I don't feel like I necessarily have that.
8:39 Speaker 01 That that that side of me in my life. So I would say, um, yeah, like my my thoughts are with you. Um, but keep doing what you're doing, be you and and let them be the toxic ones. Uh, sorry if this has been a bit muffled.
8:51 Speaker 00 I'd love to have heard the length of the answer if you hadn't had a hot shit. That was about forty five minutes. Um, I would say, um, you've got two choices. Are you okay? Do you need to go? Do you want to take a break while I'm doing my bit?
9:06 Speaker 01 No, I feel like I should be here and write it.
9:08 Speaker 00 Okay. You've got two choices. One, ask. I've done, I've asked before.
9:14 Speaker 01 What?
9:15 Speaker 00 I've said, is there a second group?
9:17 Speaker 01 Have you really?
9:18 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:18 Speaker 01 That's fucking bold.
9:20 Speaker 00 And they said, no, of course there isn't. And then it was a bit embarrassing. But then you've asked, and then if there is a second group, they might think twice about.
9:27 Speaker 01 Or they just think, he fucking thinks about himself.
9:31 Speaker 00 Why? No, you think little of yourself.
9:33 Speaker 01 No, but if you're like, did you, how did you say it? In what sense? Did you say it's one of them?
9:37 Speaker 00 I said I'm sorry to think there might be a second. No, I said it on the group.
9:39 Speaker 01 Really?
9:40 Speaker 00 I think so. Well, maybe I messaged one person. I but I.
9:43 Speaker 01 Good on you. I mean, I respect that, but.
9:45 Speaker 00 Anyway, um, you've got two choices. One is, uh, ask the question, whi- which.
9:51 Speaker 01 What horrible thing as well, by the way.
9:53 Speaker 00 What?
9:54 Speaker 01 To start up a second.
9:55 Speaker 00 We don't know for definite there is a second.
9:56 Speaker 01 No, no, I'm just saying in general, because that is a thing, right?
9:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, definitely.
10:00 Speaker 01 That people start up a group about something.
10:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, there's like three wolf now groups.
10:04 Speaker 01 I'm in one.
10:05 Speaker 00 Yeah, but, um, and the other thing you can do, and I think this is the, this is like the best way of tackling it, is to accept that there might be a second group and be fine with it. You know, there there may well be a second group where they're discussing things. If tha- that is their choice, and as Tom says, if they decide to be like that, they decide to be like that. Um, you need to find comfort in the discomfort. You know, people behave how they behave. If you spend your life trying to be in control of what everyone's doing and how people treat you, i- it just will lead to frustration. So the the other question I would ask you is, if you're the sort of, if you think these are the sort of people that are creating a second group behind your back, are they the sort of people that you want to be given a lot of your time to?
10:47 Speaker 00 You know, I I think, you know, if I had a group, you know, uh, with a group of friends, I'd like to, I'd only associate with people that wouldn't do that to me. You know? And so if you are in a position, what's going on here? I'm actually, I actually started to build up some momentum in some.
11:02 Speaker 01 No, you kid who what? I'm just literally just thinking where I can get some ice cream from.
11:07 Speaker 00 Is ice cream a good thing for that?
11:08 Speaker 01 Yes, sugar and ice.
11:10 Speaker 00 Okay.
11:10 Speaker 01 And cream.
11:11 Speaker 00 Okay, no, I get you. So, uh, and what I would say is, you know, think about who you're, you know, who, think about who you're giving your time and energy to. Because if they're the sort of people that you suspect might be doing a second group, they're probably not for you.
11:24 Speaker 01 Exactly. Very well said.
11:25 Speaker 00 Thank you.
11:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:29 Speaker 00 How are you now? What's, describe to me what's going on.
11:31 Speaker 01 This here is fucking burning.
11:33 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:33 Speaker 01 I feel like, I literally, I'm like, I feel like I've got Satan having a party inside of my gut. Like, he's just fucking dancing around his stupid old hooves.
11:44 Speaker 00 Okay. Hello, Wolf and Al. I'm the overthinking otter. Every time I send a message, I reread it at least 12 times. Spot a problem that doesn't exist and then spend the rest of the day convinced I've ruined a relationship. I once edited a message three times just to remove an exclamation mark because it felt too needy. My question is, should I stop caring what people think or should I simply stop communicating with other humans altogether?
12:06 Speaker 01 Literally, this just could be me writing into this.
12:10 Speaker 00 I don't think so. Grammatically, it was all correct.
12:14 Speaker 01 No, but I'd have edited it.
12:15 Speaker 00 Okay, go on.
12:16 Speaker 01 Uh, I mean, I do this all the time. I do it on, in, on a professional and a personal basis. And everyone I interact with, in, including this wonderful gentleman, who's one of the most kind, nourishing human beings.
12:27 Speaker 00 Not today, not today, I think.
12:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, you've got a prick element today and I was hoping that that would, fucking hot chick would trip you up a bit and it's, it's absolutely backfired and made me more needy and pathetic than I was when we started off this fucking podcast.
12:38 Speaker 00 Oh.
12:39 Speaker 01 It's given me the needle. I'm in so much pain.
12:44 Speaker 01 My voice just started to go.
12:45 Speaker 00 I know.
12:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's absolutely brutalized me. Um, oh my god. Um, but I, I, I struggle with this all the time.
12:55 Speaker 00 Hmm.
12:55 Speaker 01 So, and I don't really know an answer to it because I, I, I sent three texts today and an email and all of them, I'm sort of thinking I shouldn't have sent, or I should have said something different, should have worded something different. I mean, literally, we've done episodes on the fact that, uh, I probably shouldn't be allowed a phone. But let me say this is that for the most part, people read them and. Do not ever think in in any sense that you're being anything but kind or genuine or decent. And most people to give, you know, something someone said to me is most people scarcely even read it. They just run their eyes over it and just go on, you know, ping something back or whatever. So I would say um don't stop communicating with other humans.
13:37 Speaker 00 Good advice.
13:38 Speaker 01 You're a good, you're a good person who clearly worries about what other people think. And that's, we we look at that as a bad thing sometimes. But actually, that probably makes you quite a good person to have in other people's lives, that you're constantly trying to be the best version of yourself. Um, so go forth, uh, and, you know, if you do find a way of of making that less of a problem or dealing with that. Email in because I'm struggling with it myself, uh, along with this hot chip, which is now, I think, just getting towards my colon.
14:11 Speaker 00 Uh, thank you so much for your email, Overthinking Otter. Um, I would say to you that.
14:21 Speaker 00 Are you, are you putting it on?
14:22 Speaker 01 No, no, I'm not. I I didn't expect it to be internally quite so brutal, if I'm honest with you. Like, I thought, like, oh, yeah, I have a bit of a burning mouth for a bit, and then, you know, in a day's time, it'll fucking hurt. I didn't expect it to seemingly go rush through my organs and destroy every one of them. I I've never had a food that's made my kidneys hurt before. Every bit of me is waiting. I can feel it going through my brain.
14:49 Speaker 00 The one thing I would say is it's one of the few times I've experienced where I feel, I think I can feel where it is in my body. Which is unnerving, I would say, and it just feels like Bernie.
15:00 Speaker 01 It's actually almost a good way of just seeing how your metabolism is working.
15:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, it's a good idea. Um, Overthinking Otter, uh, it's totally, it it, first of all, be kind to yourself about this thing with the messages. It's a totally, you know, look, it it seems like it's impinging on your lifestyle because you're overthinking and worrying about these messages. But don't be horrible to yourself about it. It's totally understandable. You know, we all want to be, it's a sign of your caring and you wanting to maintain relationships that you are struggling in this way. I I do have some practical advice. I I think you should sort of train yourself to be, to think about your messages less. And what I mean by that is, uh. I would make it a challenge when you wake up, or whenever you wanna do it, you can do it right now,
15:47 Speaker 00 of sending someone a text but being carefree about it and just clicking send and not thinking about it. And just have a go at doing that with one text message. And then the next day, you can try to do it with a couple. And basically sort of desensitise yourself to being a bit more carefree about your text messaging. I think that's the best way to do it. Sometimes if something causes you discomfort, actually the best thing to do is to sit in the discomfort and accept it. You know, and actually get used to it.
16:15 Speaker 01 That actually genuinely feels like advice what we're sitting going through.
16:18 Speaker 00 That's true actually. That's what I'm trying to do is you have to accept your body's on fire.
16:24 Speaker 01 Can I just say, all I'm thinking as you're talking is, if I gave you my bank card, could you take everyone out from the studio to the pub for a quick afternoon beer and then I can use the toilet in peace?
16:36 Speaker 00 Why don't you just go to a toilet down the road? Why do you have to evacuate the whole fucking office?
16:44 Speaker 00 Of the options, why is that the one you go for? And also you're sort of raising like the embarrassment factor of that.
16:52 Speaker 01 It's just a nice thing, you go, yeah, it was gonna whiz down the pub.
16:55 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:56 Speaker 00 Don't come back to the office for two or three weeks.
17:03 Speaker 01 Dear Wolf and Al, I am the petty pigeon. If someone mildly annoys me, I store it away like evidence in a case file and revisit it years later. I don't confront them, I just quietly remember. In 2018, a friend ate my chips without asking and I still think about it at least once a month. Oh fucking hell, this genuinely feels like loads of things that I do. My question is, is this a personality flaw I should work on or is this actually just having an excellent memory? Literally, this feels like me writing in in all three circumstances.
17:36 Speaker 00 Okay, Tom, what's your advice?
17:39 Speaker 01 I mean, I hold on to shit quite a lot.
17:43 Speaker 00 Doesn't sound like you're gonna today.
17:46 Speaker 01 That's very good. Um, I, uh, I, and also I don't really enjoy confrontation.
17:53 Speaker 00 No.
17:54 Speaker 01 So I, I let things eat away at me slowly.
17:57 Speaker 00 Hmm.
17:57 Speaker 01 A bit like that chip. Yeah, very much like the chip eats away at me. This actually, this chip is almost like a symbol for my whole personality. Uh, I, uh, oh my god. Uh, I would say petty pigeon that, um,
18:13 Speaker 01 we all just have to try and let things go. Uh, tree.
18:16 Speaker 00 You're going to.
18:19 Speaker 00 Fuck it, hell, you're setting them up. Come on, try and avoid hot chip shitting innuendo.
18:24 Speaker 01 Okay. Uh, what is the pettiest thing? Uh, so I, I've held on to loads of petty things. Um, uh, you know, going like going to the pub with people who've never brought around, uh, like even though you've been, my heart is racing.
18:42 Speaker 00 Fuck, I've run a marathon.
18:45 Speaker 01 I feel my body working.
18:46 Speaker 00 Well, shall I take over?
18:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think you're gonna have to.
18:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, okay, all right. Well, it, um, it is, it's not a personality flaw, it's a personality quirk. And, uh, lots of people have this thing. I know lots of people have this sense of righteousness. And so when they feel that they've been wronged, they cling on to it. Actually, the truth is, is if you do any reading about this, it's slightly, I don't want to offend you, but it's, and because I'm guilty of this and Tom's guilty of it as well. It's actually a sign of ego, where you feel like you've got to defend your position and somebody's wronged you and you just hold on to it for a very long time. Unlike the way Tom is holding on to himself here. So what I would do is, um,
19:26 Speaker 00 I would genuinely think on a couple of these instances and try and recognise the feeling that you're having, that you're having a feeling of resentment and, uh, and annoyance about it, and just recognise those as feelings and then let them go. I, I, I think that you have to try and practise.
19:46 Speaker 00 Chilling yourself out about it. Carrying grievances about stuff that's been done to you in the past is like picking up a load of heavy rocks and then spending the rest of your life carrying them. You are, it's well within your ability to just put them down, to let them go like a loose stool, you know? It's, those things, they're going to be burning, burning inside you and, and working their way through your system.
20:10 Speaker 01 It's like a dragon burping, like zog.
20:14 Speaker 00 Anyway, I hope that helps. I don't think anything we've said today has helped, but my advice to you is-
20:20 Speaker 01 By the way, can I say we've done some fucking stupid things on this podcast. Having a hot chip and then deciding to give actual decent advice while both of us are potentially dying is fucking insane.
20:30 Speaker 00 But it's not good. Thank you so much for sending your emails in, [email protected] .
20:36 Speaker 01 Yeah. We might be back next week. We'll see how things go.
20:41 Speaker 00 We are about to get a building in Covent Garden evacuated. We'll see you next time. Bye.
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