Giant (1956)

‘Giant’ may be remembered as James Dean’s final film, but there is so much more to the story. Chris and Lizzie dive into the making of the classic 1956 film, why James Dean and Rock Hudson couldn’t stand each other, and how Elizabeth Taylor found herself caught between the two. Find out how homophobia tore Rock Hudson’s life apart, why director George Stevens constantly fought with James Dean, and how Dean’s untimely death prior to the end of production set the film on a totally different course. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Winterbauer?

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• 0:31Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:15Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Hello, dear listeners. Before we dive into our main episode today on Giant, I want to remind you that I got the opportunity to host The Vampire Lestat After Dark, the official companion show for The Vampire Lestat, which is, of course, the third season of Interview with the Vampire on AMC. I had the best time talking to the cast and crew of the show, which, by the way, is absolutely amazing. And this season blew me away. It is bonkers. You're not ready for it. Episodes air every Sunday night on AMC and AMC+. And make sure you watch The Vampire Lestat After Dark on AMC+ to dive deeper into every episode. Lastly, thank you all for listening. You're the reason I got such an amazing opportunity like this. And now, on with the show.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  And action.

• 2:33Chris Winterbauer?

  Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to another episode of What Went Wrong, your favorite podcast, full stop, that just so happens to be about movies and how it's nearly impossible to make them, let alone a good one, let alone maybe one of the most secretly queer movies ever made, in terms of casting at least. We are talking about a very fun pseudo-Western, perhaps the movie Taylor Sheridan watched and said, "That."

• 2:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 2:57Chris Winterbauer?

  But way more densely plotted. As always, I am Chris Winterbauer, joined by my co-host, Lizzie Bassett. Lizzie, what do you have in store for us today?

• 3:07Lizzie Bassett?

  Chris, we have a giant episode.

• 3:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Because we are talking about Giant, which I can't wait to get into this. There's a lot. I wanted to cover this because we have not really met either Rock Hudson or James Dean on the podcast yet.

• 3:22Chris Winterbauer?

  We have not.

• 3:22Lizzie Bassett?

  And both are really fascinating. I personally did not know a ton about either of them prior to this, and I'm really excited to get into it with you. So what was your experience with this movie prior to today? And also, also with the stars of it, because these are such big names, but I don't, you know, I don't know what your experience was.

• 3:41Chris Winterbauer?

  Really quickly, before I dive into that, I do want to do a quick disclaimer. Our air conditioning broke over the weekend.

• 3:48Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 3:48Chris Winterbauer?

  And they sent in somebody to replace it that showed up an hour ago. And so if you hear the occasional drilling, screwing, that may or may not be the air conditioning repair. Let's get into my thoughts. Giant. I think I saw Giant when I was young. I definitely saw it in film school.

• 4:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:09Chris Winterbauer?

  It was one of the films we covered in, or portions at least, in a cinematography portion of a class. And I didn't appreciate it for a whole host of reasons. Here's my big picture. I really loved the first hour and a half or so of this movie, like first hour, 40 minutes.

• 4:24Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 4:24Chris Winterbauer?

  I think is incredibly strong. And it feels impeccably cast. Elizabeth Taylor, Rock Hudson, James Dean, as you mentioned, and then also, just in our Member of the supporting characters as well that we'll get into. And then we do a big time jump in this film. So the movie basically follows Elizabeth Taylor. Leslie is this kind of reformed Virginian or Maryland or where is she from exactly at the beginning?

• 4:46Lizzie Bassett?

  So in the book, Leslie is from Virginia, but my understanding is that the real person that they based Bic Benedict on, who we're going to talk about in just a little bit. He also married a lady from Virginia, so they wanted to differentiate the character in the film from the real person a little bit more. And that's why she's from Maryland in the film and Virginia in the book.

• 5:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. So she grew up close to the Capitol or spent time in the Capitol. And she's much more progressive than this Texas world that she's entering into when she marries Rock Hudson.

• 5:14Lizzie Bassett?

  She's like arguably progressive for today.

• 5:17Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I would say, yes.

• 5:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Interesting.

• 5:19Chris Winterbauer?

  She's woke.

• 5:19Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Chris Winterbauer?

  She marries Bic Benedict, the incredibly handsome and imposing Rock Hudson.

• 5:25Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 5:26Chris Winterbauer?

  So Carmela was like, I don't think I've really seen a Rock Hudson movie before. And I said, oh, well, get ready.

• 5:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, he's gorgeous.

• 5:32Chris Winterbauer?

  Extremely appealing.

• 5:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Chris Winterbauer?

  And he's enormous.

• 5:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Chris Winterbauer?

  He's a giant. She shows up in Texas and we are exposed to a world that is very segregated between the whites and the Mexicans. And as well as within the the whites, you have the lower class folks embodied by Jet Rink, played by James Dean, who's a cowhand, basically on the ranch. Riada, run by Bic Benedict and his sister Luz. And you kind of think the movie's going to, it's kind of like dealing with some race relation stuff. That's very interesting and Bic Benedict is very bigoted and he comes from a line of prejudice.

• 6:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 6:06Chris Winterbauer?

  And he's a very proud man, but it kind of feels like the movie's angling toward something like there will be blood. Right? For like an hour and a half or so where it's like, oh, is it going to be like the him, Jet Rink thing? But Leslie's more the protagonist for like the first hour and 40 minutes.

• 6:18Lizzie Bassett?

  I thought it was going to be a thing where she would like realize the error of her ways with Bic. And she would go realize that she was in love with Jet Rink.

• 6:26Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 6:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Which is fascinating because that's not what happens at all.

• 6:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, we'll talk about the book. Yeah. Which I haven't read, but no, of course, it's not what happens at all. And in fact, much of the movie actually ends up in the movie at least becoming a bit about the redemption of or the reformation of Bic Benedict, the slow, and I would argue very realistic.

• 6:42Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree.

• 6:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Reformation of Bic Benedict. Actually, I think this movie handles race relations in a really fascinating way for the 1950s.

• 6:48Lizzie Bassett?

  I think it's pretty incredible. I mean, you said cabaret should be shown in schools. I think this should be shown in schools.

• 6:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Totally. And so for me, just narratively, the movie gets a little wobbly about an hour and 40 minutes in when we do a pretty big time jump. We jump 15, 20 years into the future and all of the sudden Bic and Leslie's children are grown. It does give a great opportunity for Dennis Hopper to join.

• 7:08Lizzie Bassett?

  He's really good in this.

• 7:09Chris Winterbauer?

  He's really good. And, you know, he's marrying a Mexican woman, and this is a big deal, obviously, to his father. He's also becoming a doctor, not a ranch hand, God forbid.

• 7:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Which is so funny. You want to be a doctor?

• 7:19Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. You kind of think it's going to build towards a long simmering confrontation between Bic Benedict and Jett Rancou, who has since become an incredibly rich man due to striking it rich on oil that he technically inherited through Bic's sister.

• 7:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 7:31Chris Winterbauer?

  And that is kind of a faux climax, but then the movie really climaxes with Bic Benedict finally standing up for his grandson.

• 7:41Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Who's mixed race, half Mexican, half white, in a diner.

• 7:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 7:45Chris Winterbauer?

  And getting his ass kicked by like a line cook and actually finally becoming the hero that Leslie has wanted him to be.

• 7:52Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 7:53Chris Winterbauer?

  His entire life. And it's peppered with the back half, even though I don't like it as much as the front half, had actually a couple of my favorite sequences, in particular, the funeral of Angel.

• 8:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Chris Winterbauer?

  The son of Polo, which is like kind of one of the lead workers on the ranch, who's set up, and in a subtle way, I would argue maybe too subtle, as the son that Bic Benedict wished he'd had. And then Bic Benedict attends his funeral after he has returned from World War II in a casket. And it's incredibly well shot, very moving scene, very, again, very subtle. So I think it's like, I love this movie. I think it's really interesting. I think it's incredibly fascinating, given the time that it was made, as you said, Lizzie. I think it deals with race relations in a more nuanced way than most Hollywood movies made now.

• 8:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, I agree.

• 8:36Chris Winterbauer?

  But I do think the movie's kind of uneven at the same time, narratively, where it feels like there's so much.

• 8:41Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, it is because it's so long.

• 8:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Exactly, and it's so sprawling.

• 8:44Lizzie Bassett?

  I know, but I wasn't bored at all.

• 8:46Chris Winterbauer?

  No, never. Of course, the cinematography is great.

• 8:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Cinematography is incredible. The production design is incredible. We're going to. Talk more about the production design than we are about the cinematography.

• 8:55Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, you can see the influences on like Badlands, right? With like the big Gothic style house in the middle of nowhere. Or like Dallas would come later, Taylor Sheridan's movies.

• 9:03Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly. Yellowstone.

• 9:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Yellowstone is the big one.

• 9:05Lizzie Bassett?

  I mean, 100% Taylor Sheridan watched this and said, let me do it slightly worse. But, and I have enjoyed parts of Yellowstone.

• 9:13Chris Winterbauer?

  I would say, let me do it slightly less nuanced.

• 9:16Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. Let me hit you over the head with this a little harder. Yeah, I think this movie is really remarkable. I think my opinions on it will become clear as we go through this and we have a lot to get through. So I think we should dive into it. But I had more of an idea of James Dean and his acting than I did of Rock Hudson. And I gotta say, I think James Dean is fantastic in this movie. I think.

• 9:36Chris Winterbauer?

  This is Rock Hudson's movie.

• 9:37Lizzie Bassett?

  God, he's really good.

• 9:39Chris Winterbauer?

  He's so good.

• 9:39Lizzie Bassett?

  Really good. I also watched the Rock Hudson documentary, which is streaming on HBO Max. It's called All That Heaven Allowed.

• 9:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 9:45Lizzie Bassett?

  It's really good. It's very worth watching. We're going to focus a lot on him and James Dean. And then we'll do a little bit on Elizabeth Taylor at the end, because we've already covered her. But.

• 9:52Chris Winterbauer?

  She's also very good in this movie.

• 9:53Lizzie Bassett?

  She's fantastic. But the thing with Rock Hudson, he never really got an opportunity like this again.

• 9:58Chris Winterbauer?

  I know. He went into like, he did like the Doris Day pictures and stuff.

• 10:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Pillow talk stuff. Yeah.

• 10:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it's weird because I was like, oh, he's like a jock, but he's got the sensitivity as well.

• 10:07Lizzie Bassett?

  I know. He really blew me away in this movie. And I also thought even at the end, you know, he's looking at his grandson and he says, you know, basically it pisses me off that he doesn't look like me, but he's also able to understand that like, that's still my grandson and I love him. And I just think it's incredibly well done.

• 10:25Chris Winterbauer?

  It feels honest to who that character would be.

• 10:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 10:27Chris Winterbauer?

  It's too deep, you know what I mean, in him, but he did show the capacity to change. And Rock Hudson commits to playing a pretty unlikable guy for most of this movie.

• 10:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Which I think is really unusual for him, which, so let's get into it.

• 10:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Can I say who he reminds me of?

• 10:40Lizzie Bassett?

  Sure.

• 10:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Or who reminds me of him?

• 10:42Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 10:42Chris Winterbauer?

  That you watched recently on the show Beef.

• 10:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, Charles Milton. Yeah.

• 10:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Has total Rock Hudson vibes.

• 10:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, I can see that. I think he's a wonderful actor.

• 10:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Wonderful actor. Can, maybe would you'd be like, oh, like doofy is the wrong word. But you know what I mean? Like, oh, he's a big, slow, you know?

• 10:59Lizzie Bassett?

  May, December, he turned in a performance that was very. Soft.

• 11:02Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes, May, December. Exactly.

• 11:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, he's great. All right. So the details, as always, Giant was directed by George Stevens. Screenplay is written by Fred Giel and Ivan Moffett. It is adapted from the novel by Edna Ferber. It had a wide release in November of 1956, and it starred Elizabeth Taylor, Rock Hudson, James Dean, Carol Baker, Jane Withers, Mercedes McCambridge, Dennis Hopper, Sal Minio, Elsa Cardenas, who plays Dennis Hopper's wife, who I think is really incredible and also, good lord, she's beautiful in this movie. And as always, the IMDb logline is, sprawling epic covering the life of a Texas cattle rancher and his family and associates. Yeah, that's about as vague as you could get, but that's fine. Our main sources for today are Don Graham's book, Giant, Elizabeth Taylor, Rock Hudson, James Dean, Edna Ferber, and the making of a legendary American film.

• 11:50Lizzie Bassett?

  Julie Gilbert's Giant Love, Edna Ferber, her bestselling novel of Texas and the making of an American classic film. And Gilbert, by the way, is Ferber's great niece. The making of Giant documentary and also the Rock Hudson documentary, All That Heaven Allowed, as well. All right. So let's start where Giant began, which is with its author, Edna Ferber. She was born in 1885 in Kalamazoo, Michigan, into a Jewish family. And her father was a dry goods merchant. Business did not go well for them. They had to move around all the time. And eventually they settled in Otomwa, Iowa, very small town, population of about 20,000 people. Just for reference, West Hollywood has a population of about 33,000. And she spent seven years in Otomwa, and she would later write that her time there, quote, "must be held accountable for anything in me that is hostile toward the world."

• 12:32Lizzie Bassett?

  And that's because the people there were horrible to her and her family. Adult men would openly mock her with very exaggerated Yiddish accents. They also would apparently spit on her as she walked by. And again, she's a child. Her family could not afford to send her to college, so she started working as a reporter. And she pretty quickly made it all the way to the Chicago Tribune. And by 1909, she had to stop daily reporting because she collapsed from anemia on the job. And this is when she pivoted to fiction writing, which it turns out she was pretty damn good at. She won the Pulitzer Prize for her 1924 novel, So Big, and was hailed as the greatest American woman novelist. She's also a heavily adapted author. 10 out of her 12 works would end up being Adapted into films, including obviously Giant, but do you know what the other most famous one is?

• 13:16Chris Winterbauer?

  It's considered, I believe, this is no knock on her, I think it's considered one of the least deserving best picture winners, isn't it? Cimarron?

• 13:22Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, there's that one. Yes, but also Showboat.

• 13:25Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yeah, Showboat, too. Yeah, yeah.

• 13:26Lizzie Bassett?

  So in 1939, she took her first trip to Texas and she was gobsmacked, as she put it, by the scale of everything. She found it so overwhelming that she figured she had no business writing about it, saying, quote, "It was larger than life, too big, too massively male, too ruthless and galvanic and overpaced, too blatant, too undiluted, too rich, too poor. This novel of Texas is not a book for a woman to write. It would kill you." But she changed her mind when she couldn't stop thinking about it. And I love this. She said, "My rejection of Texas on that initial visit had not been on the grounds of preformed opinion or inexplicable emotion. On the contrary, I had been vastly interested, astounded, confused and startled, repelled and attracted."

• 14:07Lizzie Bassett?

  So she starts digging into Texas and eventually she centered all of her research on two real people. One is Robert J. Clayberg, who was the president of the King Ranch in Texas, which spans about 960,000 acres of cattle and oil land. That is around the same size as the entire state of Rhode Island. According to his obituary, he was described as, quote, "A hard-riding, handsome man who habitually wore an up-swept stetson over his cool, piercing eyes. Mr. Clayberg was an individualist of formidable proportions." So who is this?

• 14:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, I mean, I guess it's Big Benedict.

• 14:38Lizzie Bassett?

  It's Big Benedict, yes.

• 14:39Chris Winterbauer?

  But like, also, that kind of sounds a little like Jet Rink to me, like, in the way that he's played.

• 14:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, but that's very different from the characterization in the book.

• 14:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, fair.

• 14:48Lizzie Bassett?

  So Glenn McCarthy was a rags-to-riches Texas oil man who dropped out of college with $1.50 in his pocket and two years later struck oil. By 1949, he was worth $200 million.

• 14:59Chris Winterbauer?

  But to be clear, $1.50 back then was actually $200,000. I'm just kidding. He was actually rich.

• 15:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Was upper-middle class. Ferber spent 13 years researching and writing Giant. And actually, this was interesting. It was all while she was building her own mansion in Connecticut. She had a lot of guilt about her own house and then her own wealth and ended up actually selling it in favor of a smaller New York City apartment. But in 1952, She published Giant, and it was a critical and commercial success, selling upwards of 3 million copies.

• 15:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Whoa.

• 15:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, 3 milli.

• 15:28Chris Winterbauer?

  3 milli would be like a great number of copies of a book to sell today.

• 15:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, and as we know, there were 10 people around in 1952.

• 15:35Chris Winterbauer?

  10 times as many people now, right, as there were then, or 5 times as many.

• 15:37Lizzie Bassett?

  But if you had to guess, what's one group of people that maybe wasn't so happy about this novel?

• 15:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Texans.

• 15:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Texans!

• 15:45Chris Winterbauer?

  I have Texan family members.

• 15:46Lizzie Bassett?

  As do I.

• 15:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Spent a lot of time there. They all live in Dallas. Anywho, I'll leave it there. Or San Antonio, too. What's up, Uncle Robert?

• 15:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Fun fact, my great-grandmother went by the name Tex, by the way. And at a recent family reunion, we all sat around and someone said, what was Tex's actual name? And everyone was like, puck, I don't know. And it took like 2 hours of calling people to figure out what it was. It was Frances, I believe. So, they were especially pissed that Ferber had the audacity to depict the way that Mexicans were being treated in Texas in the 40s and 50s. One critic, Carl Victor Little of the Houston Press, went so far as to say that Edna Ferber should be lynched. You're, uh, proven her point there, bud. He also dismissed Ferber's, quote, "brand of fiction as steeped in backstairs gossip and what girl novelists call local color."

• 16:34Chris Winterbauer?

  What?

• 16:35Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't know. They also called her a carpetbagger. I'm sure you're familiar with what that term means. And if anybody doesn't know, it refers literally to northerners who relocated to the South during Reconstruction after the Civil War for political or financial gain, not for a true love of the South, as it were. And I can confirm that people still use this term as of the 90s and early 2000s in Virginia, where I grew up, to refer to someone that, from the North, that just doesn't fit in. Now, later, when it was announced that Giant was to be turned into a movie, one Hollywood columnist said, "If you make and show that damn picture, we'll shoot the screen full of holes." Again.

• 17:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Deserved.

• 17:13Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay. I have bad news for that guy. Before Giant was even published, it got a lot of attention in Hollywood. An advance copy of the novel landed on many desks around town, one of which belonged to director George Stevens. Now, he was a third-generation theater kid who had moved with his whole family to Los Angeles when his parents realized film was taking all the acting jobs. Dropped out of high school, became an assistant cameraman at Hal Roach Studios. And he said of this time in Hollywood that, quote, "There were no unions, so it was possible to become an assistant cameraman if you happened to find out just when they were starting a picture. There was no organization. If a cameraman didn't have an assistant, he didn't know where to find one. So you could literally just walk into Los Angeles."

• 17:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Opportunity abounds.

• 17:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, it's crazy. He worked with Laurel and Hardy on a series of short westerns, but in 1930, he got his big break when he helped Hal Roach solve a problem. Roach couldn't figure out how to photograph the super light blue eyes of comedian Stan Laurel, so Stevens swooped in and had panoramic film brought in from Chicago. Roach gave him his first directing gig based on this. And from here, Stevens really rose through the ranks at RKO, directing a ton of movies. Started to hit his stride around 1935 with Alice Adams, starring Katharine Hepburn, who after their initial meeting said she thought he was, quote, "The dumbest man she'd ever met." She did walk that back later.

• 18:29Chris Winterbauer?

  She met someone dumber, to be clear.

• 18:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, that's what happened. And next, he hit it big with what movie that came up during Temple of Doom?

• 18:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Gungadine.

• 18:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Gungadine, that's right. Which was a grueling location shoot that, of course, ran very long.

• 18:43Chris Winterbauer?

  All shot up in the Alabama Hills, which are not in Alabama, they're just outside of Lone Pine, California, if you guys are not aware. Named after a Confederate Civil War ship, I learned. There were sympathizers to the Confederacy working in that area, so they named the Alabama Hills after that ship. And then, when that ship was sunk by a different ship that, I can't remember the name, all the Union sympathizers named everything else after the Union ship that sunk the Alabama. But the Alabama Hills, they're gorgeous. If you guys ever get a chance to go up there.

• 19:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Cool. Eventually, he got an Oscar nomination in 1942 for The Moor the Merrier, and then he was drafted into the Army during World War II. But General Eisenhower had a very particular task for him. Chris, do you know what George Stevens did during World War II?

• 19:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Did he work in documentary like Capra and Co?

• 19:28Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, so he was ordered to document the concentration camps.

• 19:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:32Lizzie Bassett?

  So that footage that you have seen, the footage that played during the Nuremberg Trials, that is George Stevens footage.

• 19:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Wow.

• 19:41Lizzie Bassett?

  He brought together a team of filmmakers, including John Ford and Samuel Fuller. They filmed the camps, they interviewed survivors. In the 1984 documentary on Stevens, produced and narrated by his son, George Stevens Jr., who of course would go on to found AFI, Stevens spoke about his experience walking through the gates at Dachau. And he said, quote, "When a poor man, hungry and unseeing because his eyesight is failing, grabs me and starts begging, I feel the Nazi because I abhor him. I want him to keep his hands off me. And the reason I want him to keep his hands off me is because I see myself capable of arrogance and brutality to keep him off me. That's a fierce thing to discover within yourself, that which you despise the most in others." And he did not just capture footage of the concentration camps. He also shot footage of D-Day and the entire Allied push into Europe. It is incredible.

• 20:26Lizzie Bassett?

  You can see a lot of it on YouTube. It has been restored and colorized. It's, I mean, there's no other footage like it.

• 20:33Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, and there was a big concern that people were not going to believe what was going on in the concentration camps.

• 20:37Lizzie Bassett?

  That is why they sent him in there.

• 20:39Chris Winterbauer?

  And the Nazis had gone to great lengths to hide their crimes.

• 20:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, yeah, because they knew.

• 20:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, they knew. They knew.

• 20:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 20:50Lizzie Bassett?

  We recently moved into a new house and realized that our bedding desperately needed a refresh. So I took my own advice. And before spending all our money on a luxury bedding brand, I went to Quince. And let me tell you, we now have the crispest, coolest, most beautiful, organic percale sheets and duvet covers that we've ever had. I've bought quite a bit of bedding from Quince and it's all super high quality and has lasted for years without paying the brand markup. Now, obviously, you shouldn't stop at bedding. You should also refresh your closet with elevated everyday essentials that you will wear over and over again. Think cozy Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at 50 bucks, cashmere scarves, responsibly sourced down jackets and 14 karat gold jewelry. I genuinely love Quince and I shop here for everything. I walked out the door the other day and realized every single thing I was wearing

• 21:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Was Quince down to my socks? Did I mention their socks are great, too? Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was what went wrong. It's the best way to support the show. Today's episode is sponsored by Mars. You might not realize it, but Mars is behind so many of your favorite Halloween treats. And I'm not just talking about your candy bowl. Yes, Mars makes iconic candies like M&M's, Snickers, Starburst, my personal favorite, and Skittles. But they also have salty snacks, easy to make meal options, and even treats for your pets. There's something for everyone to enjoy this spooky season. David and I are too old to trick or treat, so we've been getting creative with our Halloween movie night spreads for our friends.

• 22:19Lizzie Bassett?

  I put together a char bootery board with some classic sweets like Rice Krispie treats and peanut butter M&M's. And because I'm a salty girl, I added some Pringles and my all time favorite snack, Cheez-It crackers. Scary delicious. For Halloween night, I'm making a spooky seven layer dip using Ben's Original Ready Rice because there is nothing that my kid loves more than a rice and bean dip. And don't think I forgot about our dog, Q. Mars knows he needs a celebration, too. So I put together a special Halloween treat jar packed with Greenie's Original Pumpkin Spice Dental Chews and Pedigree Tasty Biscuits. He's agreed to share with the neighbors because he's a very good boy. Find Mars products in a retailer near you or on Instagram at Mars Global, M-A-R-S-G-L-O-B-A-L, where you can shop everyday favorites and limited time Halloween offerings.

• 23:05Lizzie Bassett?

  So he returned to Hollywood, I think, very understandably, a changed man. He had no interest in churning out broad studio comedies anymore. He wanted to cover more serious topics. That began with I Remember Mama, a film about a Norwegian immigrant family in San Francisco at the turn of the century. Next up was A Place in the Sun, starring Elizabeth Taylor and Montgomery Clift, which won six Oscars, including a Best Director Award for Stevens. Then there was Something to Live For, about an alcoholic who has an affair with a married member of her AA group, followed by Shane, which was a Western about a retired gunslinger.

• 23:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, Shane's the one I knew growing up the most was Shane. And I loved the book Shane, stars Alan Ladd.

• 23:43Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 23:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Father of Alan Ladd. And it's almost an anti-violence film in a way. And Alan Ladd was really uncomfortable with guns, I believe. And they had to do a ton of takes of him firing the guns since he would never point them at the other actor. Fake angles, but it's a really amazing movie. That's the movie of his that I knew the most growing up with Shane.

• 24:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, and the production of it was a nightmare, particularly the post-production. It took 15 months just to edit it. But Stevens did have a real affection for the Wild West and Western films. And he was looking for his next big project, Giant, effectively, I would say, an emotional Western, then looked very appealing. He saw the potential in it to expose some of the hypocrisies in post-war America through this microcosm of Texas. So he loved the book and he told his secretary, go give Edna Ferber a call. She did, and it turns out Edna Ferber was saying no to everyone. She had no interest in selling the book's rights. So Stevens and producer Henry Ginsberg cooked up a workaround. Instead of approaching Ferber as a studio licensing her novel or, you know, buying the rights, they offered to make her a stakeholder in the film.

• 24:44Lizzie Bassett?

  And together, the three partners formed Giant Productions with equal shares in the film's profits. Plus, film rights would revert back to Ferber in 10 years. So this was an incredibly good deal. In December of 1953, Giant Productions nabbed a deal with Warner Brothers for a budget of around $2.7 million. And Jack Warner held a press conference announcing the film, in which he closed with this little joke. I want to thank you all for coming. I hope we will all meet again when the picture's over in the not-too-long distant future. And everyone laughed because they knew there was no way in hell George Stevens was going to stay on schedule.

• 25:18Chris Winterbauer?

  I mean, this is an enormous movie. I'd have to imagine even $2.7 million is too low for this movie.

• 25:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, this movie is insane. The scale of this movie is crazy.

• 25:27Chris Winterbauer?

  I think Shane was more than $2.7 million. And Shane's a smaller movie than this movie by a lot.

• 25:33Lizzie Bassett?

  And it went way over schedule. He was known for taking forever.

• 25:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, and this movie's almost like anti-Gone with the Wind, I think, in many ways, which is an enormous movie.

• 25:41Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, yes. So the press actually started waging bets about how far behind the schedule that they would get because they knew. But step one was to get a working screenplay, and that was no small task because the novel is a sprawling 447-page As long as you mentioned, it covers multiple decades and generations of this family. And right away, Stevens had to make a decision. Would he soften the novel that had pissed off every quiet person in Texas? Or would he remain faithful to Ferber's work? And he was adamant that they stay faithful to the spirit of her novel. In particular, quote, "The conditions that many Texans themselves are so sensitive about." He basically was like, "I'm not doing a puff piece. I actually don't think they're going to respect that. I think that we need to tell the story. Shoot out the movie screens if you must."

• 26:24Lizzie Bassett?

  However, he did hire two screenwriters, Fred Giel and Ivan Moffett, to adapt the novel, and they made some pretty major changes, one of the biggest being the ending. Now, in Ferber's novel, you see what is unfortunately perhaps more realistic, but more depressing. There is no fight in the diner. Vic Benedict does not see the error of his ways. Instead, you watch plenty of discrimination without much resolution. Vic's character arcing towards goodness in this very specific way is really a construct of the movie. I loved it. I think you have to do that in order for this to pay off.

• 26:56Chris Winterbauer?

  I think it'd be too bleak. I also think they do a good job of, he does not fully arc

• 27:01Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 27:01Chris Winterbauer?

  towards an unbegated position. He calls his grandson a slur

• 27:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 27:05Chris Winterbauer?

  at the very end of the film.

• 27:06Lizzie Bassett?

  He sure does to a baby.

• 27:08Chris Winterbauer?

  Which, again, though, to me as an audience, I appreciated

• 27:11Lizzie Bassett?

  I did too.

• 27:11Chris Winterbauer?

  because it felt true to the character.

• 27:13Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, he was doing the best that he could. Was it perfect? No, but I agree. They also do change the beginning. The beginning of the novel actually starts with Vashti and Pinky on their way to Jet Rink's big party. And then you see the Benedicks heading to the party. And of course, that's now one of the climaxes of the film. Ferber did do some work on the screenplay, but nobody liked it. To be fair, she'd never written a screenplay before. They felt that she was over explaining everything, making it too novelistic, and that all the dialogue was a little too Elmer Fudd for their taste.

• 27:42Chris Winterbauer?

  I stand by it. Novelists, dialogue is not their forte.

• 27:45Lizzie Bassett?

  It's just a very different medium. George Stevens apparently wrote a note in the margin of one of her drafts. "Let the picture say this. Do all our jokes need explaining?" Ouch. According to his son, his father had a level of creative control that was pretty unprecedented at Warner Brothers. He said, quote, "When you think of Giant," which was probably the most expensive film made that year, certainly the most ambitious, "it was just so unusual for at the very center of it, there to be this question of identity." All right, so right away, the casting department had a major challenge in front of them for the film. It has to do with makeup.

• 28:17Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, aging our leads.

• 28:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 28:19Chris Winterbauer?

  30 years.

• 28:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 28:20Chris Winterbauer?

  To which they said, what if their hair turned titanium?

• 28:23Lizzie Bassett?

  I am titanium. Yeah, so.

• 28:26Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 28:26Lizzie Bassett?

  But at the time, Hollywood was in the habit of very much casting older actors and then dressing them up younger. Think Jimmy Stewart in It's a Wonderful Life, world's oldest high school student.

• 28:37Chris Winterbauer?

  What are we gonna do?

• 28:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Hello, children.

• 28:38Chris Winterbauer?

  What are we gonna do? What do we go to college next year?

• 28:41Lizzie Bassett?

  You're 45, but Stevens realized this is dumb and it would be a lot easier to age a younger actor up.

• 28:48Chris Winterbauer?

  It's the right decision.

• 28:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 28:49Chris Winterbauer?

  Even though Elizabeth Taylor.

• 28:50Lizzie Bassett?

  She looks nuts.

• 28:52Chris Winterbauer?

  At the end of the movie, look like they have been sent through a metallic spray paint factory.

• 28:57Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 28:58Chris Winterbauer?

  I still like, I prefer that feel, you know, to the end. And they do, like Dennis Hopper feels so young that Hudson can still feel like his father to me.

• 29:07Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, totally. And also, like, the first hour and change of this, they're supposed to be young and hot, so let's have them be young and hot.

• 29:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Exactly.

• 29:14Lizzie Bassett?

  So they rejected a few stars right away for being too old. Clark Gable, Gary Cooper, William Holden, Robert Mitchum, Sterling Hayden. Hayden actually made it farther than most, but Stevens said no.

• 29:25Chris Winterbauer?

  Gary Cooper's the one that I was wondering about, only because, like, you know, he had done High Noon, for example, which is kind of an anti-Western in some ways.

• 29:33Lizzie Bassett?

  He is a little, he's older.

• 29:35Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 29:35Lizzie Bassett?

  He's probably at least in his 40s at this point. Charlton Heston, Errol Flynn, and he said no to everybody.

• 29:41Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, Charlton Heston also is an interesting choice, you know, but didn't he do The Ten Commandments the same year, basically? Wasn't that 56?

• 29:48Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, again, he's substantially older.

• 29:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Two years, a year and a half.

• 29:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Really?

• 29:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, they're very close in age.

• 29:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay, well, he looked a lot older.

• 29:55Chris Winterbauer?

  I agree, he does look older.

• 29:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Now, Warner Brothers also put forth their own list of their top choices, and at the top of the list was somebody who has come up on this podcast before for being a real asshole. He doesn't love Native Americans.

• 30:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, John Wayne.

• 30:10Lizzie Bassett?

  John Wayne?

• 30:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 30:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, the only context clue you need.

• 30:13Chris Winterbauer?

  I was thinking about John Wayne, actually, because, again, this is like the anti-John Wayne arc in this movie in so many ways.

• 30:19Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, he would never have done this, but they said no to him as well. Jimmy Stewart? Jimmy Stewart, to me, that one, I feel, I wouldn't buy him. As Bic Benedict for the first half of it, I don't think.

• 30:30Chris Winterbauer?

  I know. I think Rock Hudson, there's a physicality.

• 30:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, he's so big.

• 30:34Chris Winterbauer?

  That Rock Hudson has, he's so imposing.

• 30:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Chris Winterbauer?

  That he really can sell the immovable object of his beliefs, right? Because to me, the arc of this movie is Bic Benedict needs to stop defending his family lineage and start defending his family.

• 30:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Right? Like, that's what his arc is.

• 30:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Very good.

• 30:50Chris Winterbauer?

  And I just, I don't know, it's like such a hard, Jimmy Stewart is an amazing actor, but like you said, yeah, I don't buy him as much in the first half.

• 30:57Lizzie Bassett?

  You need to be able to buy a certain meanness and Rock Hudson is able to sell that while still being attractive.

• 31:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes, and that this guy can like wrestle a bull to the ground.

• 31:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Absolutely. But there was one actor who caught Stephen's eye for Bic Benedict, and that was, of course, Rock Hudson. Hudson had broken out in a huge way with Douglas Sirk's magnificent obsession in 1954. But it was a movie he had made before that that caught Stephen's eye. It was a Western called The Lawless Breed from 1952. Stephen's secretary Joan McTavish, later his wife, urged him to screen it. And when he did, there was Bic Benedict. Because the film opens with Hudson playing a much older version of his character and then transitioning back into his younger self. And this was the big thing, is that Rock Hudson was believable as both the older character and the younger one. And I gotta say, of all the age makeup in Giant, I think Rock Hudson's is maybe second most successful.

• 31:51Lizzie Bassett?

  I think James Dean's is the best because there's the least of it.

• 31:53Chris Winterbauer?

  James Dean's is the best. James Dean's is the closest to Brando in The Godfather.

• 31:57Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree.

• 31:58Chris Winterbauer?

  And they do a good job with the receding hairline on him.

• 32:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Yep.

• 32:02Chris Winterbauer?

  And I agree, Rock Hudson's second best.

• 32:03Lizzie Bassett?

  Elizabeth Taylor looks nuts.

• 32:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Elizabeth Taylor looks nuts, but Polo, Angel's father.

• 32:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:10Chris Winterbauer?

  Who they're just like, what if he became Albert Einstein when he got older? That one is insane.

• 32:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 32:18Chris Winterbauer?

  But, but yes, I do think the makeup team did an exceptional job on James Dean. I also think James Dean sells it very well.

• 32:25Lizzie Bassett?

  Hold that thought about James Dean's makeup. So let's talk about Rock Hudson because we have never met him on the podcast before. He was born Roy Harold Shearer, Jr. in 1925 in Winnetka, Illinois. You will also see. His name listed as Roy Fitzgerald, that's because his father abandoned the family at an early age and his mother's second husband Wallace Fitzgerald adopted him. Now Roy always knew he was different from the other corn fed Illinois boys. He knew he wanted to be an actor, but that wasn't exactly something a corn fed Illinois boy was supposed to aspire to at the time. He served in the Navy during World War II and afterward decided to shoot his shot and moved to Los Angeles to live with his father. Now his dad made him get a job as a vacuum salesman, which he was terrible at. He never sold a single one. One could say he sucked.

• 33:11Chris Winterbauer?

  His biological father?

• 33:12Lizzie Bassett?

  His biological father, yes.

• 33:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, got it.

• 33:14Lizzie Bassett?

  So he kicked around some odd jobs until he finally got a good tip. Get some photos taken and get them into the hands of Henry Wilson, the head of talent at David O. Selznick Productions. Now, Henry Wilson deserves his own bonus episode because this guy was deeply sinister and weird. He basically engineered the whole beefcake phenomenon of the 40s and 50s by plucking young actors from obscurity and transforming them. It was a pretty open secret that he was gay and seemed to expect sexual favors from the men that he represented. Ryan Murphy said it best when describing Wilson, who by the way, Jim Parsons plays in Murphy's Netflix series Hollywood. He said, quote, "He would find these young guys and almost all came from horrible situations with broken marriages and absent fathers and take them on as clients.

• 33:58Lizzie Bassett?

  He was a tormented gay man who preyed on tormented gay men. He would be their manager and make them sexually service him. Weirdly, he was actually an okay manager. He was friends with everyone, so could get clients in the room with power brokers."

• 34:10Chris Winterbauer?

  I feel like there's a character in L.A. Confidential, he's actually a politician, I think, in L.A. Confidential, but I think he's maybe loosely tied to Henry Wilson and then

• 34:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:19Chris Winterbauer?

  Who Simon Baker ends up

• 34:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:21Chris Winterbauer?

  Spoiler, dead with that character. What I was gonna mention, did he have anything to do with Errol Flynn?

• 34:26Lizzie Bassett?

  No, I think that would have been a little early.

• 34:28Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, yeah, because Errol Flynn, I remember kind of like his physique is like the follow up to Douglas Fairbanks was like, oh, this is going to be the next, you know, generation of thick swashbuckler. And that kind of leads into like you're mentioning the beefcake era with Charlton Heston, for example.

• 34:41Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, and Kirk Douglas.

• 34:43Chris Winterbauer?

  And Spartacus and stuff like that.

• 34:44Lizzie Bassett?

  I think it has more to do with the transition. In America from because if you look at silent film actors.

• 34:50Chris Winterbauer?

  It's like all post World War II.

• 34:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly.

• 34:52Chris Winterbauer?

  It's like the returning GI.

• 34:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Right. If you look at silent film actors, they're very effeminate. They're wearing a lot of makeup. They tended to be very beautiful. And then, yes, after World War II, you want to see the strong American soldier coming home. You know, you were asking about Errol Flynn. I said, maybe a little bit early. That's because Henry Wilson's like cash cow was Roy Fitzgerald. Or should we say Rock Hudson? Because Henry Wilson changed his name for him. Wilson said, I tried to think of something strong and big. Rock of Gibraltar. Hudson came from the Hudson River for no reason. And he renamed all of these guys. Tab Hunter, Guy Madison, Ty Harden. These were all personas dreamt up by Wilson for these young actors.

• 35:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Don Graham wrote, Roy Fitzgerald was an awkward, culturally illiterate Midwestern bumpkin when he slouched his 6'5" frame into Wilson's presence. He sort of stooped to hide his height. He had bad teeth. He was shy and he was largely uneducated. His voice was high pitched and squeaky and he had zero acting talent, but he was handsome and Wilson had an eye for comely young men. Wilson was literally known for saying, the acting can be added later. And in fact, Hudson's rise to the top was not meteoric. He famously took 38 takes to say the line, you've got to buy a bigger blackboard in the 1948 movie Fighter Squadron. But Wilson did not give up. He would instruct Hudson on how to sit, talk, eat in restaurants, how to become basically an entirely different person.

• 36:14Lizzie Bassett?

  He also did these weird publicity stunts with him, one where he painted him entirely in like metallic gold paint and put him in like a little tiny bathing suit to go to the Oscars wearing that. I think it actually made Rock Hudson sick because it was like the Tin Man style paint.

• 36:28Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, the Tin Man, exactly.

• 36:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 36:30Chris Winterbauer?

  It reminds me of Alden Ehrenreich's character in Hell Caesar.

• 36:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, totally.

• 36:33Chris Winterbauer?

  What did it wear so simple?

• 36:36Lizzie Bassett?

  And Wilson most tragically instructed Hudson on how to convincingly lead a double life as a closeted gay man. Now, while Wilson flaunted his own sexuality and used it to control and oppress his wards, he was adamant that Hudson could never live as openly gay. And given the time they were living in, he was probably right. Hudson would never have been the movie star that he became had he not hidden his. Sexuality. At one point, when Wilson discovered Rock living with another man, he forced him to end it immediately, which Hudson did, and he laid down three rules to live by. One, never let a man park his car in your driveway overnight. Two, never sit down at a restaurant with another man without a young lady present. And three, never live with another man. Hudson hated his new name, but he kept it until the day he died, and he followed those rules.

• 37:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Now, more on Rock Hudson in just a little bit. For the role of Leslie, Stephen wanted someone we just talked about in Breakfast at Tiffany's. He wanted Audrey Hepburn, and he wanted her so badly that he actually sent her Ivan Moffett's character sketches and traveled to New York to try and convince her, but she said, no, thank you. Up next was Grace Kelly, but MGM refused to loan her out because they were pissed at her for turning down some of their own projects. She also would leave Hollywood the same year Giant came out to become the Princess of Monaco. And Edna Ferber kept pushing Stevens to look at Patricia Neal, Chris's favorite.

• 37:49Chris Winterbauer?

  I was gonna ask about Patricia Neal.

• 37:50Lizzie Bassett?

  She was always in the mix.

• 37:51Chris Winterbauer?

  She's my favorite.

• 37:52Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 37:53Chris Winterbauer?

  She's about to come up in another thing we're about to record.

• 37:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh.

• 37:55Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Lizzie Bassett?

  But it was Elizabeth Taylor who nabbed the part due to sheer willpower. In 1967, Stephen said, Liz Taylor cast herself in Giant. She wanted to play that part. She called me to talk about it, but she was about to have a baby. So her doctor called me and said she was in great shape obstetrically, and she'd be able to work four weeks after the baby was born. What does great shape obstetrically mean? And how would you know she's gonna be able to work four? I mean, she did it, which is insane.

• 38:24Chris Winterbauer?

  No, I mean, she's feeding him lines on the other side of the phone, obviously.

• 38:29Lizzie Bassett?

  It's in great shape.

• 38:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 38:30Lizzie Bassett?

  That was her second child, by the way. And besides, Stevens had already directed her in A Place in the Sun, so he knew what she could do. And she was a big star at this point, despite being only 23 years old, with a two-year-old and a baby in tow, by the way.

• 38:41Chris Winterbauer?

  She's 23?

• 38:43Lizzie Bassett?

  She's 23.

• 38:44Chris Winterbauer?

  That's crazy. I assumed she and Rock Hudson were closer in age, that they were both around 30. That's nuts.

• 38:50Lizzie Bassett?

  She's the same age as James Dean.

• 38:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, wow.

• 38:52Lizzie Bassett?

  She has a very...

• 38:53Chris Winterbauer?

  She feels older.

• 38:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 38:54Chris Winterbauer?

  To me, yeah.

• 38:55Lizzie Bassett?

  She feels older, and she's also so done up a lot of the time.

• 38:58Chris Winterbauer?

  That's true.

• 38:58Lizzie Bassett?

  And so gorgeous, but she has an older-looking face. Now, if you want more on Elizabeth Taylor and her rise to prominence, we did cover her quite a bit in Cleopatra. But by late January of 1955, the part of Leslie was officially hers. And another actor who really gunned for their role was James Dean. They had initially been discussing Montgomery Clift for this part. And Dean was a little bit of a tough sell. He was really young. He was 23 at this point. He didn't really look like the part. The part was supposed to be tall and imposing, and he's more slender and a little bit smaller. But he showed up at Stevens' office dressed in outfits he thought Jet Rink would wear, and made it clear this was his part. Stevens would later say, physically and temperamentally, Jimmy Dean was wrong for the part.

• 39:42Lizzie Bassett?

  Jet was a tall, powerful, extroverted character. There were a dozen actors who seemed more likely choices, and we felt that the part needed an extremely good actor. So we gave the script to Jimmy to read. And at the top of his copy of the script, James Dean wrote over the name Jet Rink, "That's me. That's me because I can convince myself that it will be me, really me." In March of 1955, Stevens took a chance on him and said, okay. Now, James Dean, not unlike Rock Hudson, was born in the Midwest, Mary and Indiana in 1931, though his family moved to California when he was young. He had a very loving childhood until his mother died of cancer when he was just nine years old, at which point his father shipped him back to Indiana, by some accounts, on the same train as his mother's coffin. Just like Rock Hudson, when Dean graduated high school, he headed back to California

• 40:26Lizzie Bassett?

  to try and reconnect with his father. But his father and his new stepmother made it pretty clear that they didn't really want him there. So he headed off to UCLA, initially as a theater minor and a pre-law major. He apparently starred in a production of Macbeth there, and it got scathing reviews. Everyone said, "This guy is going nowhere." But he, of course, did go somewhere. He went to study at the Actors Studio in New York City. At this point, the studio focused on the Stanislavski method, which I polled some of my friends who are professional working actors, because I could not remember this, even though we had studied it in acting school. And so I think the simplest way to explain this is that it's very focused on being truthful in an imaginary circumstance. So there's no acting. You are the character. How are you going to react truthfully in this specific?

• 41:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Imaginary situation. It's very driven by authenticity. You let the character's choices drive your actions. And it's here that James Dean really hones his approach to acting. And he also pissed absolutely everyone he worked with off. But while many would label him as difficult, Carol Baker, who of course would go on to play Les Benedict II in Giant, explained it a little differently. She said, quote, "I knew Jimmy for several years, but he was not an easy person to know. The kids at the Actors Studio used to get together maybe once a week and sit around and listen to classical music. Jimmy used to come to these parties late, never said hello to anyone, and after a while, you'd look around and he was gone without ever saying goodbye. He didn't talk to anybody. He was, I think, desperately shy. So as I say, he was not easy to know."

• 42:01Lizzie Bassett?

  But in 1955, he got his major break with Aliyah Kazan's East of Eden, which he would get an Oscar nomination for. That same year, he filmed Rebel Without a Cause, opposite Natalie Wood and Sal Minio, who also appears briefly in Giant.

• 42:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, he plays Angel when he's going to war.

• 42:16Lizzie Bassett?

  He does. I gotta say, I think this is my favorite performance of James Dean. I know Rebel Without a Cause is the most iconic, but-

• 42:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I like this one. I'm not a huge James Dean guy, to be fair.

• 42:28Lizzie Bassett?

  I think he's great in this.

• 42:30Chris Winterbauer?

  I think he's really good in this, but there's a mythos around him, you know, that's larger than life. And Carmela, my wife, was a huge James Dean head growing up. She had a big cardboard cutout of James Dean in her room. And so I understand the appeal. But my point is, I was not a huge fan of his. I think I appreciated his work, but I think he does a great job in this movie. He's really convincing.

• 42:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, this is my favorite.

• 42:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, and I think the physical contrast between him and Rock Hudson is a real asset to the movie as well.

• 42:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, you have James Dean to thank for that. So he was actually in a pretty bad mood, though, because of Rebel Without a Cause. He was supposed to have gotten a break between that movie's production and Giant, but Rebel Without a Cause had run way over. And so he was doing costume fittings and, you know, makeup tests for Giant during the production of Rebel Without a Cause.

• 43:15Chris Winterbauer?

  Wow.

• 43:15Lizzie Bassett?

  So he's starting the marathon Giant shoot already pretty exhausted.

• 43:19Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, and if he's doing method effectively, right, if he's trying to- To embody the character, but he's having to embody two. I know it's different. I know what you're saying. It's about authenticity.

• 43:26Lizzie Bassett?

  No, no, no. I want to be careful. Yeah, it's it is about authenticity. And when people think of, you know, Daniel Day Lewis running through the woods with a musket being method acting, yes. And that grew out of this initial Stanislavski method, but they're not one in the same.

• 43:40Chris Winterbauer?

  I know.

• 43:41Lizzie Bassett?

  I was talking to a friend about this and she said, you know, I think it comes from maybe not being able to identify boundaries in terms of how you start to push into what we now think of as quote unquote, method acting. But yes, very focused on authenticity. He also just really wanted to have fun, which for James Dean involved driving very fast cars, very fast. He actually raced semi professionally and he was pretty good at it. But according to George Stevens Jr., when dad decided that Jimmy would play the part and they sat down to talk about it, dad talked to him about his race car and he said, look, I know you love driving. We've got a lot of people involved in this picture and if something happens to you, if you break your arm or break a leg, 300 people's work is going to be stopped. So I want to ask you, while this picture is being made, not to drive that car.

• 44:25Lizzie Bassett?

  And Jimmy looked at him and said, all right. And throughout the shooting, he never drove the car. Now Stevens rounded out the cast with an Academy Award winner, Mercedes McCambridge, playing Les Benedict, as well as, we said, a very young Dennis Hopper and absolutely gorgeous Mexican actress Elsa Cardenas as his wife. Fun fact, she actually married a Texas oil man one year after Giant came out, though the marriage didn't last. Filming kicked off in May of 1955 in Los Angeles and the first scenes they shot were Bic showing up in Maryland at Leslie's house. But the night before the first day on set, Elizabeth Taylor invited Rock Hudson over to her house with her then husband, Michael Wilding. And Taylor and Hudson stayed up drinking until about 4 a.m. and then realized they had to be on set at 6 a.m.

• 45:06Lizzie Bassett?

  The first scene they shot was the wedding scene, which thankfully had no dialogue because Hudson and Taylor could not remember any lines and would have to run outside between takes to vomit in the bushes. The good old days.

• 45:17Chris Winterbauer?

  To be clear, it's not their wedding, right?

• 45:19Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 45:19Chris Winterbauer?

  This is your sister's wedding?

• 45:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 45:20Chris Winterbauer?

  He's come back for Thanksgiving. And they probably also thought like, well, they look a little rough.

• 45:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, they're older.

• 45:24Chris Winterbauer?

  This is when they're older. Okay, that's fine.

• 45:26Lizzie Bassett?

  They look a bit green. Good, good. Yeah, that's fine. After only about a month in LA, production then moved to Marfa, Texas. So that insane house at the center of Riada Ranch was built for the film on Evans Ranch, also sometimes called Ryan Ranch, about 21 miles outside of Marfa. They paid $20,000 all in for the use of the land, which included the cattle and the horses.

• 45:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Great scope.

• 45:48Lizzie Bassett?

  And that would be about $250,000 today. So that's a pretty good deal.

• 45:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, for what you're getting. I mean, it's incredible scope.

• 45:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 45:54Chris Winterbauer?

  All look up what Taylor Sheridan charges or used to charge Paramount to shoot on his ranch in Texas.

• 46:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, how he rents his own ranch out.

• 46:01Chris Winterbauer?

  I mean, he's a very smart businessman.

• 46:03Lizzie Bassett?

  I know. You gotta respect it. Now, as for the house, it was just a facade with no actual interior or roof. It was tied to a bunch of telephone poles. All the materials had to be transported on six train cars from California. And after the movie wrapped, the whole thing just got accidentally left behind. It was an oversight, according to art director Boris Levin. It became a tourist attraction. And though it's mostly fallen over, the skeleton remains. Would you like to see it?

• 46:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, show me. The ruins of Riada.

• 46:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Yep.

• 46:31Chris Winterbauer?

  It's cool. It looks like what now would exist behind a very elaborate stage production, for example.

• 46:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. So Marfa was established in 1883 as a railway water stop. And by 1955, when they were filming this, it was a tiny cattle town with a population of about 3,600 people. It was not super different from what you see in Giant. Mexican-American communities were heavily segregated and impoverished, all of which is to say, there was not a lot to do around town, and the cast full of Hollywood partiers didn't love that. There was also basically no existing infrastructure to support a movie productions. The team had to get creative. George Stevens had an old movie theater called The Palace, which had been boarded up and shut down, reopened and turned into his own private screening room to watch dailies. And he did something really smart. He knew that Texans were not too pleased about this movie.

• 47:19Lizzie Bassett?

  So after the first day of filming in Marfa, he invited all of the locals into the theater to watch the dailies with him. He treated the town of Marfa like collaborators, and it paid off. They very much welcomed the cast and crew with open arms. And then Marfa, of course, would become something of a Hollywood town after Giant. There Will Be Blood is filmed there, No Country For Old Men, famously at the same time, Marfa Girl and many others. But not everyone was having such a great time on set, especially because they were filming in June in West Texas, and it was 120 degrees in the shade.

• 47:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Yep.

• 47:51Lizzie Bassett?

  It actually.

• 47:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Yep. Yep.

• 47:53Lizzie Bassett?

  It got so hot one day that Mercedes McCambridge, her makeup melted into her face and caused a serious infection that permanently scarred her.

• 48:02Chris Winterbauer?

  Jesus.

• 48:03Lizzie Bassett?

  Couple that with the fact that by June 24th, they were eight days behind schedule and more than $200,000 over budget. George Stevens also wanted everyone in costume and makeup on location all day, even when they weren't shooting. This meant the entire 39 person cast would gather at the El Paisano Hotel at 5:00 AM and then get shuttled to Ryan Ranch by 8:00 AM, where they would stay until about 6:00 PM. Then it was back to Marfa to eat dinner, watch dailies and drink until you vom.

• 48:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I don't know how people did this.

• 48:33Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't know either.

• 48:34Chris Winterbauer?

  It blows my mind.

• 48:35Lizzie Bassett?

  It's crazy.

• 48:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Rock Hudson hosted nightly parties at his house, which he and Elizabeth Taylor apparently created their own cocktail for, the chocolate martini, which was just vodka, Hershey syrup and Kahlua.

• 48:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, God.

• 48:48Lizzie Bassett?

  How does she look like that? How does she look like that?

• 48:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, everything that's going in is coming out. But.

• 48:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 48:54Chris Winterbauer?

  So she's 23.

• 48:56Lizzie Bassett?

  That's true. That helps.

• 48:57Chris Winterbauer?

  When you're that age, your body can just handle being poisoned every day, apparently.

• 49:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, she was putting it through the wringer. And pretty much everyone was in attendance at these parties, except for James Dean, who was not super happy about any of this. He's tired, he wants a break, he's hot, he does not want a chocolate martini. He seemed to want to do his work and get out of there. George Stevens Jr. described him as a young man in a hurry who frequently got impatient with the pace of things, and this immediately put him at odds with George Stevens. As we'll see, James Dean does seem like a bit of a pain in the ass, but I am on his side here. It's 120 degrees. Why do you need everyone standing around outside in costume all day? Stevens said, as Jimmy accuses me of interfering with his work, I can only say that I feel he is jeopardizing my work and I am the one running the show, not Dean. It seems like a big part of the problem was that Dean

• 49:45Lizzie Bassett?

  wanted Jet Rink to be the center of the film and got very frustrated when Focus was cast elsewhere. He also refused most of the old age makeup and would only allow some graying at his temples and a few wrinkles. He's right. His looks the best.

• 49:59Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 49:59Lizzie Bassett?

  His absolutely looks. The best.

• 50:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, he has a, I call it like a squinty look to begin with. And so he doesn't need as much work, you know, I don't think. And he gets through a lot of it with just his physicality, you know, as well.

• 50:10Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, and the prosthetics are distracting, like on Elizabeth Taylor in particular.

• 50:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 50:14Lizzie Bassett?

  And I think the fact that he doesn't have any on him, it looks way better.

• 50:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it's funny. His character is so interesting, the history of that character type. You know, I was even thinking of someone like, you know, Ben McKenzie in Junebug. And, and there, there's like a cruisy in quality to James Dean or, you know, obviously like River Phoenix later and whatnot. But I think one of the reasons his character does work well in this movie is that we don't see too much of him.

• 50:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Totally.

• 50:38Chris Winterbauer?

  He feels pretty exaggerated to me and you get just enough that that's okay. And I would imagine if there was more, he might become too much of a caricature because he's kind of a cartoonish villain by the end, you know, in a lot of ways.

• 50:52Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. He also arrived late to set frequently. One time he did so and left Mercedes McCambridge waiting around, even though she had actually gone to the hospital for stitches due to a fall the night before. And Stevens was so pissed that he actually reamed James Dean in front of the entire cast and crew for that. And then walked off the set and told the A D, you direct his scenes, I'm not doing it. But George Stevens was not the one that James Dean butted heads with the most. That honor went to Rock Hudson. I think part of the reason this movie works so well is that these two fucking hated each other in real life. Even later on, when they ask Rock Hudson, when he's much older, what he thought about James Dean, he literally is like, I don't think I should say anything because he's dead.

• 51:34Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 51:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Like hated him. So let's talk about why. Problem number one, James Dean looked down on Rock Hudson because he didn't have the same kind of training. He wasn't a real actor in James Dean's eyes. Problem number two, they both wanted to be besties with Elizabeth Taylor and were constantly competing for her attention. Taylor apparently didn't sleep for long portions of this shoot because she would stay up until 4 a.m. talking to one of them and then spend the rest of the night talking to the other and then head straight to set. What was in the water? What drugs are you on to do this? It's incredible.

• 52:05Chris Winterbauer?

  It's the David O'Salstik special. They're just all getting, it's that episode of Mad Men where they're all getting the amphetamine shots in the ass. And he's like, it'll give you a little extra pep in your step. Like, you don't have a heart condition, right?

• 52:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, Jesus.

• 52:17Chris Winterbauer?

  And then Roger's like, I had a heart attack last year. You should be fine.

• 52:19Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, my God. Problem number three is that James Dean was a scene stealer. And not just because of his acting ability. He's obviously a very good actor, but he also was really fidgety. And Hudson sensed that Dean was on a quest to get the most screen time and the most publicity out of anybody on set. And he was probably right. More production stills are taken of James Dean than anyone else in the movie, including Elizabeth Taylor and Rock Hudson. At one point, James Dean even flipped Elizabeth Taylor upside down in a dress, exposing her underwear in front of press photographers, which she was pretty pissed about. But unlike Hudson, she forgave James Dean pretty quickly. Take after take, he would mumble his lines, fiddle with his hat, or his rope, or hitch himself slightly off center. And it's so interesting because I think Rock Hudson was used to being able to use his size to dominate a scene.

• 53:04Lizzie Bassett?

  And James Dean was not going to let him do that, which in the end result works well.

• 53:09Chris Winterbauer?

  It does, but he's also like, he's so obviously angling for closeups.

• 53:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 53:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Like, that's why you do that is because it demands a closeup. And Rock Hudson is coming from, I think, an era of acting where it's no, fill the frame.

• 53:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly.

• 53:23Chris Winterbauer?

  And James Dean's doing the opposite.

• 53:25Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. And then problem number four, James Dean was well aware of the rumors about Rock Hudson's sexuality and by many accounts was very put off by what he considered the hypocrisy of Hudson's private life versus public life. The fact that Hudson was, in his eyes, masquerading as, you know, the straightest man alive seemed to really rankle James Dean, possibly because Dean is widely considered to have been bisexual himself. He all but confirmed this, saying to a reporter, quote, "No, I'm not homosexual, but I'm also not going through life with one hand tied behind my back." And there's something else. Though Hudson and Dean were constantly at odds, he did, of course, grow very close to Elizabeth Taylor throughout filming and confessed things to her, including details of his earliest sexual encounter. Taylor later said that, quote, "When Jimmy was 11 and his mother..."

• 54:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Passed away, he began to be molested by his minister. I think that haunted him the rest of his life. In fact, I know it did. We talked about it a lot. During Giant, we'd stay up nights and talk and talk, and that was one of the things he confessed to me. Now, there is a rumor, you will see reported quite a bit, that Rock Hudson made a pass at James Dean, and that this is why the two hated each other, that it even forced James Dean to move out of the house they'd both been staying in and into the hotel in town. I will say, it was almost impossible to substantiate this in terms of the research. But there is one story that came from Dennis Hopper, and this one I'm more inclined to believe. So, one day, Dennis Hopper and James Dean were walking by Rock Hudson's trailer. Rock Hudson came out, and suddenly James Dean jumped on him and French kissed him in front of everyone.

• 54:54Lizzie Bassett?

  To me, this does not indicate sexual tension. This reads as a power play, especially if he knew Hudson was gay, which he almost certainly did. Everybody knew. This was like a dare to see if he would out himself. Dean also had a habit of whipping his dick out and peeing in the desert in front of everyone during takes. It just, it all feels very much like a test. So I'm more inclined to believe that Dean, who was younger and less straight-laced, was angered by Hudson's double life more than anything else, because it read as inauthentic to him. Understandably, Rock Hudson put in quite a few calls to his now agent, Henry Wilson, about how much he could not stand James Dean. And Wilson was concerned about this, because this was supposed to be Rock Hudson's serious acting debut, and he expected Hudson to be grateful, not calling at all hours complaining.

• 55:36Lizzie Bassett?

  So Wilson sent his secretary, Phyllis Gates, out to Marfa to calm Hudson down, or perhaps remind him who he worked for. But he also had ulterior motives. The press had been after Hudson for years at this point, with Life magazine even saying, quote, "Fans are urging 29-year-old Hudson to get married or explain why not." Explain yourself.

• 55:54Chris Winterbauer?

  I just keep having sex with too many women.

• 55:59Lizzie Bassett?

  Men. Wilson had been cooking up a quote-unquote "romance" between Gates and Hudson to try and assuage the rumors. He'd taken them both out to dinner when Hudson got the role, and so sending Phyllis out to Marfa was another part of this ruse. But though Dean and Hudson did not get along, James Dean did not have the same problem with his castmates. As we've already said, he and Elizabeth Taylor were quite close. Also developed a very close friendship with Jane Withers, who plays Vashti Snith. She would wash his shirt every day and he would pick it up in the morning. He also apparently had a habit of climbing in through her bedroom window and falling asleep in her bed, to which she nailed her window shut and was like, please use the front door, my friend. Unlike both Elizabeth Taylor and Rock Hudson, James Dean did actually befriend the people of Marfa as well. He would hang out with the real cowboys, learned how to rope, how to shoot.

• 56:44Lizzie Bassett?

  He visited the Mexican-American children in Valentine, the little town where the film's Mexican village was built, and reportedly handed out Coca-Cola's to them with his dialect coach. He actually spent so much time with them that the girls in Valentine formed a softball team that they called the Dizzy Deans in his honor. He would entertain the townspeople with an impersonation of Charlie Chaplin impersonating Marlon Brando. All to say, he was as comfortable with the townsfolk as he was deeply uncomfortable with his Hollywood peers. By July 9, 1955, filming in Texas wrapped and the production moved back to the Warner Brothers studio in Burbank. And everyone thought that surely heading back to Hollywood would be good for all of the tension. But they thought wrong, because Texas had given them some physical space to spread out and get away from each other, and now they were all trapped together on a studio lot.

• 57:28Lizzie Bassett?

  Add to this the fact that Warner Brothers was now physically breathing down Stephen's neck about budget and delays, and everyone was miserable. Also, Elizabeth Taylor's nightlife caught up to her, and she got sick with both pharyngitis and cystitis, and she was told by the doctors, you need to stop and lay down now, otherwise things could get really bad and delay things further, so she did. Which left tensions between James Dean and George Stevens to simmer even more. Actress Norrie Nash, who played a rancher's wife, joined the cast in LA and said, quote, "By the time I got on the picture, director George Stevens and James Dean were at each other. Dean did his usual mumbling and Stevens kept saying, this script cost a lot of money. I want to hear those words."

• 58:08Chris Winterbauer?

  He mumbles a lot.

• 58:09Lizzie Bassett?

  He's a mumblor. Let him mumble.

• 58:11Chris Winterbauer?

  I turned the subtitles on.

• 58:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Chris's team, George Stevens.

• 58:16Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm Team Rock Hudson, I think.

• 58:17Lizzie Bassett?

  I am too.

• 58:18Chris Winterbauer?

  I turned the subtitles on, and then guys that were, I guess I rented it on Apple, but let's get an updated subtitles with Spanish subtitles, because every time they speak Spanish, it just says foreign language.

• 58:28Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 58:29Chris Winterbauer?

  In parentheses.

• 58:30Lizzie Bassett?

  I know. Thanks, guys.

• 58:31Chris Winterbauer?

  We know what language it is.

• 58:32Lizzie Bassett?

  No, no.

• 58:33Chris Winterbauer?

  It's Spanish.

• 58:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, Dean was still pissed at Stevens because he kept calling everyone to set and makeup and costume, whether they were needed or not. So on July 23rd, after he had been called in and not used for three days straight, James Dean was like, fuck this, and decided not to show up at all. Warner Brothers sent out everyone they had to figure out where he was and what was going on. Eventually, a second AD got ahold of him, and Dean simply said he was too tired to work. So Stevens presented Dean with a pretty damning log of every time Dean had been late to set, which included at least 16 times between June 29th and August 1st. The message was very clear, and after that, James Dean started showing up on time and stopped complaining.

• 59:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Also, that would mean every other day.

• 59:13Lizzie Bassett?

  Literally.

• 59:14Chris Winterbauer?

  If you were filming every day.

• 59:15Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 59:16Chris Winterbauer?

  So what that really means is three out of four days.

• 59:17Lizzie Bassett?

  You're late.

• 59:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Also, he's being paid for all of the days.

• 59:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 59:20Chris Winterbauer?

  Even the ones he's not showing up for. So.

• 59:22Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 59:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 59:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Then on July 31st, because pharyngitis and cystitis weren't enough, Elizabeth Taylor got a leg infection and was knocked out for a week. I guess this answers the question of how, how was she doing this? She was deeply ill underneath the beautiful exterior.

• 59:37Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it'd be, I mean, she'd do it again in Cleopatra. Like.

• 59:40Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 59:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. Jeez Louise.

• 59:42Lizzie Bassett?

  So Stevens had to move things around again and find different locations to film in LA that didn't require Taylor.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Love the crown molding.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile.

• 1:00:05Speaker 04

  Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet?

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen.

• 1:00:13Speaker 04

  No FiOS? Yeah. No, thank you.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  Don't you want to see the rest? Okay. Bye-bye.

• 1:00:19Speaker 05

  Get Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 1:00:30Lizzie Bassett?

  In September of 1955, while James Dean was still working on Giant, Jack Warner's son-in-law and exec at Warner Brothers asked him to do a National Safety Council interview or PSA about safe driving. And James Dean was like, no, I'm tired.

• 1:00:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Also, why would you have James Dean do that?

• 1:00:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Because they know that he drives race cars, because he's this cool and, you know, Rebel Without a Cause, of course, that hadn't come out yet, but would feature essentially drag racing.

• 1:00:54Chris Winterbauer?

  Fair enough.

• 1:00:55Lizzie Bassett?

  So William Orr, this executive, said, quote, "Listen to me, you little son of a bitch. You are gonna do it. You've been nasty to a lot of people around here, but you're not gonna be nasty to the whole country. You're gonna go down and make this damned public service announcement, or I'll stand here until you do." So Chris, James Dean did it, and I would like to play it for you in its entirety.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  Hi, Jimmy.

• 1:01:17Speaker 06

  Hi, Gabe.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  We asked Jimmy over today because he's a racing man himself, a real one, not a crazy one. Incidentally, I think I should explain that Jimmy just stepped over from the set of Giant. And need I add, he plays a Texan. Speaking of racing, have you ever been in a drag race?

• 1:01:34Speaker 06

  What, you kidding me?

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  I just thought I'd ask. No Jim races in the tradition, you might say. Real racing cars, real tracks. How fast will your car go?

• 1:01:43Speaker 06

  Oh, an honest miles an hour, clocked it to run about 106, 7.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  You've won a few races, haven't you?

• 1:01:53Speaker 06

  Oh, one or two.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Where?

• 1:01:57Speaker 06

  Well, I showed pretty good at Palm Springs. I ran at Bakersfield.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  Jimmy, we probably have a great many young people watching our show tonight, and for their benefit, I'd like your opinion about fast driving on the highway. Do you think it's a good idea?

• 1:02:13Speaker 06

  A good point. I, uh, I used to fly around quite a bit, you know? I took a lot of unnecessary chances on the highways.

• 1:02:23Speaker 06

  And I started racing and uh now I drive on the highways and I'm uh extra cautious. Cause no one knows what they're doing half the time. You don't know what this guy is gonna do with that one. On a track, there are a lot of men who spend a lot of time developing rules and ways of safety. And uh I find myself being very cautious on the highway. I don't have the urge to to speed on the highway. People say racing is dangerous, but I'll take my chances on the track any day than on a highway. Well, Gieg, I think I'd better take off.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Oh, wait a minute, Jimmy. Um, one more question. Do you have any special advice for the young people who drive?

• 1:03:10Speaker 06

  Take it easy driving. The life you might save might be mine.

• 1:03:17Lizzie Bassett?

  That last line was actually supposed to be drive safely, the life you save may be your own. But as we heard, he changed it to take it easy driving, the life you save might be mine. On September 27th, he wrapped up his principal photography on Giant and he had his brand new car, a Porsche Spyder that he nicknamed Little Bastard, delivered to the set because he was finally free to have some fun. All he had left was some dialogue looping essentially. Mercedes McCambridge was the first person to ride in it with him and according to George Stevens Jr., quote, "Dad said the last conversation he had with Jimmy was, I know you're going up there, you're gonna put the car on a truck and truck it up and then drive it at the track. And Jimmy said, yep, that's what I'm gonna do." And initially, that is what he had planned, to truck the car out to the Salinas Road Race where he was gonna compete.

• 1:03:59Lizzie Bassett?

  But his mechanic convinced him to drive the car out himself to break in the engine. So on September 30th, they headed out on the road at about 5:45 PM. Two hours later, Dean did receive a speeding ticket around Bakersfield. And then at the junction of Highway 466 and 41 around Colain, California, a 23-year-old Cal Polytechnic State student named Donald Turnipseed was driving home from school in his 1950 Ford Tutor when he turned left directly into James Dean's path, colliding head on. Dean's last words to his mechanic were, "That guy's gotta stop. He'll see us." But Turnipseed... Turnipseed did not. No one knows if it was the extremely low profile of the car or the fact that it was silver, but Turnipseed had no clue that they were coming.

• 1:04:40Lizzie Bassett?

  James Dean died at 24 years old from a broken neck and massive internal injuries. Both his passenger and Turnipseed did survive the crash. I didn't know that this accident was not his fault at all. I always thought, oh, he must have been driving super recklessly. Not the case. I actually think what he said in that PSA was probably true, that he did play it safer on the highways than he did on the racetrack because he knew people weren't paying attention. Back on the set of Giant, Stevens and the cast and crew were watching dailies when Stevens received a call. The lights went on in the theater and everyone knew that something was wrong. According to Carol Baker, who again plays the younger Les Benedict in the movie, George took a couple of deep breaths. There was not a sound in that projection room. And after a while, he said in a very level voice,

• 1:05:25Lizzie Bassett?

  Jimmy Dean has just died in an automobile accident. And that's all he said. We all sat there stunned. Nobody cried. Nobody shouted. I don't think we were able to move. Rock Hudson said George left and I followed him. We walked down through the sound stages through Warner Brothers and I lost him. I couldn't find him. I don't know where he went, except to guess that he just wanted to be by himself. Rebel Without a Cause premiered less than one month after Dean's death, and James Dean hysteria went into full swing. People refused to believe that he had died. They thought it must be a publicity stunt by Warner Brothers. George Stevens actually received death threats from people insisting that he not cut a single moment of Dean's performance in Giant. And one comment that Stevens received at a preview of the film read, "I don't know how possible it is, but the studio almost owes its audience

• 1:06:09Lizzie Bassett?

  as much of James Dean as can be squeezed in." But the fact was George Stevens had over 800,000 feet of film to edit, and his already obsessive nature was turned up to 11 following Dean's death. At one point, George Jr. told his father, "Dad, you have a great picture. Why don't you lock it up?" And George Stevens said, "When you think about how many man-hours people will spend watching this picture, don't you think it's worth a little more of our time to make it as good as we can?" It took Stevens an entire year to edit the film. He ended up using Dean's friend, Nick Adams, to dub the few remaining lines that Dean had left, which actually Were almost all of his lines in the banquet scene when he's drunk. Because you could not understand what he had said on set. So that is not James Dean.

• 1:06:51Lizzie Bassett?

  And as Stevens watched the footage over and over, he realized that James Dean had actually been right about a lot. One scene in particular stood out. There's one where Jet enters the house as a party's being thrown and pours himself a drink of Bix whiskey. Dean had been emphatic that he should have just pulled out his own flask, but Stevens shut him down. And watching it back, Stevens realized Rink would have been too proud to take Bix whiskey. He said, quote, "His idea was too damn smart and he didn't explain it to me, so I didn't get it then. But he really knew that character and that's the best tribute I can pay to his talent as an artist." Stevens was also under attack from the oil industry. They wanted that scene where the Benedicts discuss the tax break and Leslie criticizes it cut from the film.

• 1:07:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Jack Warner put the heat on Stevens to get rid of it, but Stevens, exhausted, stood his ground, saying, "Jack, you just have to tell him I can't do it." Giant premiered in October of 1956 and released wide on November 24th. It garnered both critical and commercial success as well as Oscar nominations for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actress for Mercedes McCambridge, Adapted Screenplay, Score, Art Direction, Costume Design, and Editing. And Best Actor, by the way, was for both Dean and Hudson.

• 1:07:58Chris Winterbauer?

  So interesting. I think Dean should be nominated in Supporting.

• 1:08:01Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree.

• 1:08:02Chris Winterbauer?

  That's nothing against his performance.

• 1:08:03Lizzie Bassett?

  No, he's in it less.

• 1:08:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Performance is great. Yeah, exactly. It's a supporting turn.

• 1:08:07Lizzie Bassett?

  But yes, Mercedes McCambridge is great as his asshole sister.

• 1:08:09Chris Winterbauer?

  I think she's interesting.

• 1:08:10Lizzie Bassett?

  She is interesting, but I'm mad at her for what she does to that horse.

• 1:08:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay.

• 1:08:14Lizzie Bassett?

  But only one person took home an Academy Award that night, George Stevens for Best Director. Now, as for Rock Hudson, he married his agent secretary Phyllis Gates shortly after Giant had wrapped filming, in what many believe to be a marriage arranged by Henry Wilson. Wilson even booked their whole honeymoon in Jamaica. Now, they divorced three years later. According to Phyllis in a later memoir, she said she had no clue that Hudson was gay and by her account, he became abusive towards the end of their relationship. We don't know. I'll be honest, I find it a little hard to believe that she didn't know, given she was Henry Wilson's secretary and this was his entire modus operandi, but who knows? She said she didn't. Hudson never came out publicly about his sexual Despite constant rumors in the press, although he was finally able to fire vile

• 1:08:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Agent Henry Wilson in 1966, at which point Wilson allegedly threatened to throw acid in Hudson's face as retaliation. But in July of 1985, Rock Hudson did break the news that he had AIDS, and this was a huge deal. It really cannot be overstated how big a deal this announcement was. And he could absolutely have kept his diagnosis under wraps until he died, perhaps even beyond that point, but he chose to publicly own his diagnosis. And the press were not kind to him. He had been guest starring on Dynasty at the time and had had a kissing scene with co-star Linda Evans, and the tabloids ran with this. They called it the kiss of death had he given her AIDS. Later, she said she always wondered why he'd kissed her so timidly with a closed mouth, and she realized later it was his way of protecting

• 1:09:40Lizzie Bassett?

  her because they really didn't know how it spread at that point. He was the first major celebrity to contract the disease, and suddenly people were forced to really confront the reality of it, because if Rock Hudson could get it, so could anyone. His announcement did help garner more donations to research funds, though his own friend Nancy Reagan still declined to help relocate him to a better medical center when he was on his deathbed.

• 1:10:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Although I did hear that that did impact the Reagans long term.

• 1:10:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Someone else did as well, who we're about to talk about.

• 1:10:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay.

• 1:10:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Someone else put the pressure on the Reagans. Rock Hudson died on October 2nd, 1985, but just two weeks earlier, on September 19th, Elizabeth Taylor hosted the first major fundraiser for AIDS Project Los Angeles, an organization she had begun working with earlier that year. She raised $1.3 million at this dinner for AIDS patient care. Rock Hudson donated $10,000 but was too ill to attend, instead sending this message: "I am not happy that I am sick. I am not happy that I have AIDS. But if this is helping others, I can at least know that my own misfortune has had some positive worth." This dinner led to the creation of the American Foundation for AIDS Research, which Elizabeth Taylor continued to work tirelessly for as the national chairman. She actually refused the title chairwoman. In 1987, she spoke about her decision to become an activist

• 1:10:53Lizzie Bassett?

  at the National Press Club in DC, saying, quote, "I became so incensed and personally frustrated at the rejection I was receiving by just trying to get people's attention. I was made so aware of the science." Silence, this huge loud silence regarding AIDS, how no one wanted to talk about it and no one wanted to become involved. Certainly no one wanted to give money or support. And it so angered me that I finally thought to myself, bitch, do something yourself. Instead of sitting there getting angry, do something. And she did. In addition to raising and donating millions of dollars for treatment and patient care, she also visited hundreds of patients in hospice, dressed to the nines with diamonds and full hair and makeup because she wanted them to see her as they had imagined her. She also personally put an enormous amount of pressure on Nancy and Ronald

• 1:11:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Reagan, and it is thought that she actually led directly to Reagan's first major speech about AIDS, which didn't come until I think like 1987. But just like Leslie Benedict, she did not let cultural stigma get in the way of caring for her friends. She did the right thing. I don't know why I'm getting so upset about this. I just, when researching this, I didn't know how much she did. And it's really remarkable.

• 1:11:56Chris Winterbauer?

  I think she's an easy target for some movies, right?

• 1:11:59Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Chris Winterbauer?

  And some of the behind the scenes stories, like on Cleopatra, which we talked about.

• 1:12:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Of course.

• 1:12:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Which is insane.

• 1:12:03Lizzie Bassett?

  She was a crazy person.

• 1:12:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, and it is funny.

• 1:12:06Lizzie Bassett?

  But she was a good person also. Like, and she didn't do this for publicity. She really like...

• 1:12:11Chris Winterbauer?

  No, she was in the twilight of her career at that point, you know?

• 1:12:13Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Chris Winterbauer?

  This was just, she had a friendship, she cared about people. And like you said, it's, there's such a meta quality to this and the movie Giant, which of course, what really Giant explores is how the one thing that gives me hope about humans is how prejudices do, I think, very often break down when put up against people we know.

• 1:12:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:34Chris Winterbauer?

  Right? And that really what a lot of people say, I think, turned the tide on gay marriage, was just as more and more people started coming out, we just all, everybody just realized, wow, I have family that is gay. Just statistically, it's likely. And with AIDS, it was the same thing, where it's like, if we just ignore it, if you do the Benedict family approach of like, they live over there, we don't talk to them, you know, blah, blah, blah. That's how this festers, but...

• 1:12:54Lizzie Bassett?

  The parallels are kind of amazing.

• 1:12:56Chris Winterbauer?

  They are.

• 1:12:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Because not only her, obviously, like, she was truly, truly pioneering and like, is a big part of the reason why AIDS research had enough money to even begin, you know, dealing with this. But also Rock Hudson.

• 1:13:08Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Because did he ever come out completely? No.

• 1:13:12Chris Winterbauer?

  No.

• 1:13:12Lizzie Bassett?

  He never got to live his life openly and that was a choice and, and you know, he did make it, but in the end he did what he could, which was to be honest about the diagnosis before he died.

• 1:13:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, like Vic Benedict, he changed just enough right at the end of his life. Yeah. And in the same way, the Reagans eventually come around a little bit because they start to realize, maybe through public pressure.

• 1:13:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Elizabeth Taylor would not leave him alone.

• 1:13:38Chris Winterbauer?

  But I do think in part it's, oh, this is something that is impacting, not just this othered group over there that I, you know, am going to not care about because I don't interact with them. It's people I know. It's both sad that that has to be the case, but it always makes me optimistic for change because exposure therapy works, you know, with so many things.

• 1:14:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Interestingly, she said that as soon as she started to become aware of this, she immediately was like, what are we doing? Like, what are, you know, how do we get help for this? And she said that in particular Frank Sinatra and Michael Jackson refused to give any assistance or help initially.

• 1:14:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Interesting.

• 1:14:15Lizzie Bassett?

  Very interesting. Well, that wraps up our coverage of Giant, Chris. So what went right?

• 1:14:20Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, thank you so much, Lizzie, for bringing us through this story. I would like to give my what went right, it could go to any number of people. James Dean is obviously great in this movie, his last film. Rock Hudson, Elizabeth Taylor, George Stevens did a great job directing this movie. I think the cinematography is great. You know, one of my favorite shots is shot of the house in profile as War Winds returns without Luz on his back and tells the story. I would like to give mine to the screenwriters who didn't get a lot of talk in this episode, but I agree with you. I think the way that they rewrote Vic's character, is it as acerbic and satirical as Edna would have wanted? No, I'm sure it was not, but I think it's a lovely change and it's an optimistic change,

• 1:15:03Chris Winterbauer?

  but I think they did it in a way that doesn't feel mawkish and unrealistic to me, as I mentioned.

• 1:15:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Chris Winterbauer?

  To me, I think they really struck a nice balance.

• 1:15:11Lizzie Bassett?

  They didn't Paul Haggas it.

• 1:15:12Chris Winterbauer?

  No, they did not. Who will also come up on something we're about to discuss.

• 1:15:18Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 1:15:18Chris Winterbauer?

  No, I think they did, you know what they said? People can change, but they don't change themselves. That much.

• 1:15:23Lizzie Bassett?

  But they changed just enough.

• 1:15:24Chris Winterbauer?

  And I appreciated it and I respected that they were able to find, that's a tough needle to thread.

• 1:15:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. I'm gonna give mine to Rock Hudson.

• 1:15:33Chris Winterbauer?

  Sure.

• 1:15:33Lizzie Bassett?

  I think.

• 1:15:34Chris Winterbauer?

  He's great.

• 1:15:34Lizzie Bassett?

  He is incredible in this movie and, you know, obviously it was a difficult production for him. It was an enormous challenge, but he rose to the challenge and it makes me very sad that we didn't get to see him do this again. And I wonder if it's because this was such an unpleasant experience and then James Dean died and, you know, it just became what was supposed to be his movie, really, which when you watch it, it is Rock Hudson's movie.

• 1:15:59Chris Winterbauer?

  No, but it's crazy.

• 1:16:00Lizzie Bassett?

  But of course, that's not how it's remembered.

• 1:16:02Chris Winterbauer?

  And when you see the poster.

• 1:16:03Lizzie Bassett?

  It's James Dean.

• 1:16:05Chris Winterbauer?

  On the rental. James Dean's the biggest head on the poster.

• 1:16:07Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 1:16:08Chris Winterbauer?

  And then it's Rock Hudson and then it's Elizabeth Taylor, which is.

• 1:16:10Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:11Chris Winterbauer?

  If anything, if it's not gonna be Rock Hudson, it should be Elizabeth Taylor.

• 1:16:15Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 1:16:15Chris Winterbauer?

  Who's the protagonist for the first hour and a half.

• 1:16:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. I just wonder if, you know, the whole experience kind of scared him off and then coupled that with the fact that he was still, you know, so required to remain closeted, then he just turns to the real fluff, like pillow talk and all the Doris Day movies and.

• 1:16:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Maybe we'll cover those because also who knows what Henry Wilson was steering him toward.

• 1:16:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:35Chris Winterbauer?

  There's so many things we don't know yet about that period. So we'll have to dive more into his life. Yeah.

• 1:16:40Lizzie Bassett?

  I think despite what his beginnings may have been, despite the fact that he didn't have the same training as James Dean, he is a great actor and he turns in such a nuanced performance that it's so interesting because, you know, James Dean is the trained actor and he does a great job. He is a great actor. But the one who's turning in a much more subtle and in many ways, I think more human performance is Rock Hudson.

• 1:17:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, you know, he reminds me in this movie of like Sylvester Stallone in Copland. I don't know if you've seen that movie.

• 1:17:09Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 1:17:10Chris Winterbauer?

  It's a really good movie. Don't laugh at it. It's a good movie.

• 1:17:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Sylvester Stallone's a good actor.

• 1:17:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, he is, but I mean, he's great in First Blood, obviously, and, and he's good in Rocky.

• 1:17:18Lizzie Bassett?

  He's great in Rocky.

• 1:17:19Chris Winterbauer?

  He has this hulking, he'd really beefed up by the time of Copland and he basically, he plays a police officer, who's a police officer in a neighborhood of cops, right? It's like the cops who police New York City, but don't live in New York City. Anyway, they're all corrupt and it's like, how do you police the police? He's going against Keitel and De Niro and Ray Liotta. Anyway, I know Stallone's six inches shorter than Rock Hudson, but in Copland, he's doing really nice subtle things with his whole body, the way he holds himself and stands. And that's what I think Rock Hudson does so well in this movie.

• 1:17:47Lizzie Bassett?

  I do too, but the funny thing is I think he actually needed James Dean because

• 1:17:51Chris Winterbauer?

  I agree.

• 1:17:51Lizzie Bassett?

  James Dean forced him to not be able to just rely on his size and dominating the wide shots. And because of that, you get a really remarkable performance out of Rock Hudson. I don't think you would get otherwise. So that's why What Went Right, I loved this movie. I really loved learning more about all of this and I would like to know more about James Dean. I mean, we kind of scratched the surface here, but yeah, Rebel Without a Cause, I think we'll probably get into.

• 1:18:16Chris Winterbauer?

  And East of Eden, because they're doing an adaptation with Florence coming this fall. It's a mini series, so we'll have to cover that as well.

• 1:18:24Lizzie Bassett?

  All right, great.

• 1:18:25Chris Winterbauer?

  All right.

• 1:18:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Chris, if people would like to support this podcast, how could they do that?

• 1:18:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Just a few easy ways. Tell a family member or friend what went wrong. Give it a look, give it a listen. Leave us a rating and review on whatever podcatcher you are listening to us on. We appreciate it, helps us with visibility. If you'd like more from us, this is not necessary by any means, but if you'd like more from us, we have bonus feeds available now on Spotify, Apple and Patreon. On the Spotify and Apple side, you get at least one bonus episode every month. These are typically reviews of newly released films. We just did The Mandalorian and Grogu, and we have a lot of stuff coming this summer, including The Odyssey, as we continue Anne Hathaway's summer. That's how we're going to think of that film and many more. Of course, if you would like even more, you can join our Patreon, www.patreon.com/whatwentwrongpodcast.

• 1:19:10Chris Winterbauer?

  For $5, you get all those bonus episodes, plus you get an ad-free RSS feed and you get newsletter postings from us, polls, the fan community. It's just a fun place to hang out and chat. It is us responding to you. We do not pay other people to chat with you. We do not have those funds. And then of course, for $5, you get your name shouted out at the end of an episode, just like one of these.

• 1:19:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Adrian Pang Correa, Angeline Renee Cook, Beatrix Erhardt, Ben Schindelman, Blaze Ambrose, Brian Donahue, Brittany Morris, Brooke, Cameron Smith, C. Grace B., Chris Leal, Daniel P.

• 1:19:52Lizzie Bassett?

  David Friskalanti, Darren and Dale Conkling, Don Scheible, M. Zonia, Evan Downey, Felicia G., Film It Yourself, Frankenstein, Galen and Miguel, The Broken Glass Kids, The Cast and Crew of Win a Trip to Brown Town, Half Greyhound, James McAvoy, Jason Frankel, J.J. Rapido, John D. Wilshire, Jori Hill Piper, Jose Emiliano Salto Del Giorgio, Karina Canaba, Kate Elrington, Kathleen Olson, Amy Elgashlager McCoy, Lena LJ, Lousy Susan,

• 1:20:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Lydia Howes, Mark Bertha, Mariposa's Humans, Matthew Jacobson, Michael McGrath, Nate Ashley, Nate the Knife, Rosemary Southward, Roja, Sadie, Just Sadie, Scott Oshida, Somon Chinani, Steve Winterbauer, Suzanne Johnson, and the Provost Family, The O's Sound Like O's. Thank you all so very much from the bottom of our hearts.

• 1:21:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Thank you so much, Lizzie. Can you tell the fine folks at home what we are coming back with next week?

• 1:21:11Lizzie Bassett?

  We are coming in hot with War of the Worlds. Pew pew pew pew pew! Pew pew pew pew pew! Lasers, Tom Cruise!

• 1:21:19Chris Winterbauer?

  She's not involved.

• 1:21:20Lizzie Bassett?

  But Timmy Cruise is. And that means... Timmy Crease. We are going to be doing an extra little episode as a bit of a primer, primer for War of the Worlds, which Chris is going to be walking us through Scientology and its impact on Hollywood. So I'm very excited for that. So come for that on Friday and then stay for War of the Worlds on Monday.

• 1:21:43Chris Winterbauer?

  We will talk to you guys then.

• 1:21:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Bye.

• 1:21:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Bye.

• 1:21:53Speaker 07

  What Went Wrong is a Sad Boom Podcast, presented by Lizzie Bassett and Chris Winterbauer. Post-production and music by David Bowman. This episode was researched by Laura Woods and edited by Karen Krupso.