Don't Worry Darling

How did 'Don’t Worry Darling' become one of Hollywood’s biggest misfires since 'Ishtar'? Chris and Lizzie investigate how Olivia Wilde’s highly anticipated sophomore film began falling apart long before it reached theaters. From Shia LaBeouf’s hotly disputed exit and last-minute replacement with Harry Styles, to how Wilde’s personal life hijacked the press tour, the off-screen drama proved far more compelling than the movie itself. Discover what changed from the original script, why key themes were misrepresented, and how Florence Pugh’s deafening silence helped fuel a media frenzy. *CORRECTIONS: Cockburn is pronounced "co-burn", not "cock-burn" as we assert in this episode. That being said, it stands to reason Olivia Wilde chose to change her name precisely because America is filled with dummies like us. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Winterbauer?

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• 0:31Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:15Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:54Chris Winterbauer?

  Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to another episode of What Went Wrong, your favorite podcast, full stop, that just so happens to be about movies and how it is nearly impossible to make them, let alone a good one, let alone a arguably somewhat misunderstood misfire, which suffered a public collapse, the likes of which we have arguably not really seen since Ishtar in many senses. As always, I am Chris Winterbauer, joined by my co-host, Lizzie Bassett, and I'm very excited, Lizzie, to be discussing today's film. How are you and what are we talking about?

• 2:28Lizzie Bassett?

  I'm good. I'm also excited to talk about this, and I have one question for you, Chris. Are you ready to get messy? Because this is a mess.

• 2:38Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, you know, it is. And yet, this is my theory. This is half of a very good movie.

• 2:43Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree.

• 2:43Chris Winterbauer?

  And I stand by that, and I will present all of my evidence. I'm very excited to get messy. We don't often cover films as recently released as this one, but so much information is available that this film actually warrants, certainly, an exploration, and I'm excited. Yeah, let's get messy. Let's get all the mess all up all over ourselves.

• 3:01Lizzie Bassett?

  We're gonna.

• 3:02Chris Winterbauer?

  As we dive in.

• 3:02Lizzie Bassett?

  We're diving into the shit pile here with this one. And it's interesting, as you said, there is a lot of information available about this movie, but I will preface this episode by saying most of the information available is about the potential onset drama that did eventually become public. There's almost no information about post-production, which is interesting. That's okay. We have plenty to discuss without that. And maybe someday it'll come to light because it took absolutely forever, which I'm interested about.

• 3:28Chris Winterbauer?

  Fun fact.

• 3:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 3:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Don't Worry Darling was edited in the office next to me when we were editing Moonshot.

• 3:34Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 3:35Chris Winterbauer?

  And I don't, I didn't, I have no insider information. I like walked by and saw a couple of frames of the film. I believe we finished, I know we finished and released before Don't Worry Darling was released.

• 3:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, the post-production period on this is really long, and I couldn't figure out why. But I have some ideas. So, all right, Chris, let me ask you first, what was the first time you saw this movie and what was your experience upon re-watching it for the podcast?

• 4:01Chris Winterbauer?

  This is the first time I've seen it.

• 4:03Lizzie Bassett?

  This is the first time?

• 4:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I never watched it when it came out.

• 4:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, interesting.

• 4:07Chris Winterbauer?

  This is the first time I've seen it.

• 4:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay, all right.

• 4:09Chris Winterbauer?

  As you know, I read the original Blacklist script.

• 4:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, which you shared with me.

• 4:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, around the time that the movie was getting made, but I wasn't particularly interested once it got, you know, so roundly criticized by critics and then publicly. And so I just never got around to it. And so I watched it for the first time. I watched it with my wife Carmela, and I have a lot of thoughts on this film. And let's start with the good. So incredible production value.

• 4:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Amazing.

• 4:35Chris Winterbauer?

  The cinematography by Matthew Levitik, I think, is really gorgeous. The locations in Palm Springs, Palm Desert, some of which I've jogged, like the hill that the trolley goes up.

• 4:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Chris Winterbauer?

  I've run that hill, for example, that goes up to where the tram takes you up into the mountains. The production design by Katie Byron, the costume design by Arian Phillips.

• 4:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 4:56Chris Winterbauer?

  The whole hair and makeup and wardrobe departments. Incredible work. The movie looks so good. I think some of the cast is perfectly cast. Florence Pugh, one of the best actresses currently working. Olivia Wilde is great in her role.

• 5:13Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 5:14Chris Winterbauer?

  In this movie.

• 5:14Lizzie Bassett?

  She's amazing.

• 5:16Chris Winterbauer?

  She remains a compelling, beguiling, commanding screen presence who I always enjoy. The men are cast bafflingly poorly in this movie, in my opinion. I don't want to drag him, but Harry Styles is a bit of an emotional void at the center of this movie. That could work for the movie. I do think it harms the movie in the way that his character is set up.

• 5:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Which I want to say I don't think is his fault.

• 5:41Chris Winterbauer?

  No, it's ultimately, that's a directorial failure in the sense that he was cast because the director, producers, et cetera, wanted to cast him. And so, and I think he actually acquits himself fine. Like, he's way better than I would ever be, to be clear. And he's an amazing musician, also great runner, finished the Berlin Marathon in under three hours. Holy smokes, good for you, Harry Styles. I similarly, like, I love Nick Kroll. He feels very out of place in this world. I would argue Chris Pine even feels out of place in his role, and I like Chris Pine. He's one of my favorites. He's wonderful. If you haven't seen it, Hell or High Water, oh my gosh, she's so good. So it's like every aspect of this movie that it does well, there's like an offsetting component that throws me off.

• 6:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Similarly with the story, by the way, Katie Silverman is a great screenwriter. If you guys haven't seen like Booksmart, it's great. And she wrote, in my opinion, the gold standard of the modern rom com, Set It Up. Zoe Deutsch, Glenn Powell, great movie.

• 6:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 6:35Chris Winterbauer?

  Ultimately, I think it's a failure of story. I actually, I like the first 30 minutes and I, I actually enjoy the last 30 minutes. And there is a middle hour where this movie goes nowhere. And I think that, you know, I just watched Die My Love with Jennifer Lawrence, the new Lynda Ramsey film. And I also watched the really amazing If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You with Rose Byrne, both of which explore, yeah, you could say like female rage. Really, it's more just like incredible pressures that these characters are under. And they start to crack in like different ways that are really interesting. And this movie cannot figure out if it is a mystery where all of the clues should add up to something, ala Get Out, or if it is a vibes movie like Die My Love, where we're just left wondering what's real and what's not.

• 7:18Chris Winterbauer?

  And so the middle hour is a vibes movie, but the first 30 minutes and the last 30 minutes are Get Out. And so it feels completely confused as a result. There are so many elements that would be cool that do not pay off. Like spoiler alert, there is a reveal that Olivia Wilde's character enjoys being in this alternate reality because she is here with her children. Everything we have learned about her relationship to her children up until this point seems to be that she does not care for them at all and does not want them around.

• 7:45Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 7:46Chris Winterbauer?

  So that could have been a really interesting reveal, but it was not established. Again, spoiler, it's revealed that basically all of the women in this world have been kept here by Manosphere influenced.

• 7:56Lizzie Bassett?

  In cells, essentially.

• 7:57Chris Winterbauer?

  Beta males in cells who are really ugly in real life.

• 8:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, I didn't think you could make Harry Styles ugly. And good lord, he's unattractive.

• 8:06Chris Winterbauer?

  They did. But again, I'm like, it's revealed that Florence Pugh in real life is a doctor. And so where is the scene in which someone is hurt in this artificial world? And unexpectedly, she seems to know what to do and cannot explain it, right? Where is the scene where, again, she follows? Harry Styles to work and sees him just disappear seemingly.

• 8:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 8:26Chris Winterbauer?

  Or she can't find anybody working here. If we're building to a reveal, where is the evidence to support that reveal? And further, like she becomes a really confusing entry point to the movie. Because it's like you have Sydney Chandler's character, who is the baby bird, who is brand new to this community, and that would make sense as a primary protagonist, because it's, we are witnessing this world through the newcomer's eyes. Or you have Kiki Lane's character, who's kind of the outsider, right? Not the least of which, because she's the only black character in this world, which

• 8:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 8:56Chris Winterbauer?

  also raises some interesting questions, given the 1950s aesthetic setting, who also could be like the entry point, because she's lost her son, and it's like they're gaslighting her, and we don't know why. But instead, we're with Florence Pugh's character, and again, Florence Pugh, amazing actress, she basically still somehow makes it work, but we are given no reason to latch on to her, aside from the fact that we've latched on to her. And so I just, again, there are just these really confusing choices that are being made, that just keep knocking me out of rhythm with the movie as I'm watching it. And so ultimately, it feels like a misfire, even though I didn't hate it, I don't think this is a bad movie, I just think it's fine and like, doesn't really gel in any significant way. And I really think the standard by which it is bad is the standard, unfortunately, that

• 9:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Olivia Wilde, the publicity team, or whatever, or the studio set for the film, which was so ridiculously high. I'm sure we'll get into more thoughts, but that's my mini positive negative rant on Don't Worry Darling, which, yeah, it looks great, doesn't come together.

• 9:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, I think you absolutely nailed it. My experience of this is a little different, so you know, you and I both read the original script, and I think, unlike you, I actually really liked the original script quite a lot. But to be very clear, the original script for this movie, which, you know, we will talk about this, this is not the rewrite that Katie Silverman ended up doing, and that's no shade to her, but the original script, you know, you posed two versions of this movie, one that's a vibes movie, one that's a mystery. The original was very much a mystery.

• 10:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes.

• 10:24Lizzie Bassett?

  And it was a thriller, and it was teed up in such a way where, you know, the reveals that you are talking about, those were present in that script.

• 10:32Chris Winterbauer?

  It's her testing the boundaries of this world and starting to figure out, wait a second, there's nothing beyond this wall.

• 10:39Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 10:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 10:40Lizzie Bassett?

  She also gets out of the simulation more than once in the original script.

• 10:44Chris Winterbauer?

  At the midpoint, like structurally.

• 10:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly. Which helps that reveal so much because we're not actually seeing stuff in flashback, which is a bit annoying. That's what you see in this one. You're seeing it actively that she is actually waking up from the simulation, trying to escape, having to go back into the simulation, trying to get help from other people to figure out where the portal is. You know, it makes more sense that Bunny, Olivia Wilde's character, is aware that she is in the simulation. She's, I believe she ends up helping Alice. Yeah, it's, you know, whether it was pulpy, I know there were problems with the original script, but it was very clear what it was. And it was very fun to read.

• 11:22Chris Winterbauer?

  And also like reading the original, bringing Katie Silverman and Olivia Wilde on actually seems like a great thing.

• 11:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Hundred percent.

• 11:28Chris Winterbauer?

  I think one big flaw with the original is, look, it's very well constructed. You can tell it's written by dudes.

• 11:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, it's written by two men, which we'll get to.

• 11:35Chris Winterbauer?

  From the very first page, again, that's not necessarily a critique, but you could see how balancing it out with a female filmmaking team could yield a really great, happy medium between the two.

• 11:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Absolutely. On paper, it makes a ton of sense. And I think that the original writers, Shane and Carrie Van Dyke, would agree that that's something that they were excited about, that they felt that they needed was that, you know, a female perspective on this. It is interesting that this is written by two men, considering the whole, you know, point of this is this idea of, I think it taps into something that actually came after this movie, which is the appeal of trad wives.

• 12:10Chris Winterbauer?

  I agree. As I watched it, I thought this movie's more relevant now than it was when it came out.

• 12:15Lizzie Bassett?

  It is. And sort of like selling this ideal of the quote unquote traditional wife, and it being appealing for everyone and it being sexy and it, you know, it being the way that things should be and easier and more comfortable. And maybe because that that wasn't as much in the zeitgeist when this came out, they may have struggled a little bit more with kind of how to present it and what it meant. I think if this movie were to be made today, it would be made very differently and it might be a clearer picture. I don't know. But I'm a hundred percent with you. I think the problem. Problems with this movie are unfortunately pretty major story issues and just major directorial issues. I thought Booksmart was incredible and we will talk about it. It had such a clear vision, such a clear tone. It's so fun. This movie, as you said, it's at least two movies smooshed

• 12:59Lizzie Bassett?

  together, if not more. And my biggest complaint about this movie is that it is all tell, don't show. There are so many moments in this where they're trying so hard to show you how weird the vibes are, like with those black and white dance numbers that are very clearly referencing, like the choreography from Busby Berkeley of the 1930s and 40s.

• 13:19Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, that was another thing that I couldn't figure out some of the stylistic choices with the Busby Berkeley stuff, which predates the aesthetic that the film is setting for itself by about 25 years. That's from the early 1930s, late 1920s.

• 13:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. And to be clear, Busby Berkeley refers to like the synchronized swimming choreographed dance numbers.

• 13:36Chris Winterbauer?

  The black and white overhead shots of the women swinging their legs, et cetera.

• 13:40Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's strange and it's all very like, ooh, isn't this spooky?

• 13:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Which was a more liberated time in a sense for women in Hollywood especially than post Hays Code, which is interesting too. It's weird that that's the portal through which you enter this place.

• 13:54Lizzie Bassett?

  It's very weird. It doesn't make a lot of sense. It feels very like, isn't this spooky? Not like, am I in a simulation? There are a couple of moments in this that I think are very well done. You know, I love her cracking the eggs open and there being nothing in them.

• 14:08Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. The empty egg is great. I was like, give me more of those.

• 14:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Give me more of those. The moment where she's in the bathtub and she slips into the tub and then, you know, her reflection remains in the mirror, like things like that. I could use a bit more of those or really just any more of those because they are so few and far between across this movie. I'm with you. I think all of the women in this do a bang up job with the possible exception of Gemma Chan, who it just doesn't get that much to do.

• 14:32Chris Winterbauer?

  She just has a big turn at the end that's completely unsupported.

• 14:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Doesn't make any sense.

• 14:36Chris Winterbauer?

  It makes negative sense.

• 14:40Lizzie Bassett?

  It's wild.

• 14:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Lizzie Bassett?

  Chris Pine is my favorite celebrity, Chris.

• 14:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Besides me.

• 14:43Lizzie Bassett?

  He does what he can with this. Yeah, besides you.

• 14:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Thank you.

• 14:46Lizzie Bassett?

  He does what he can, but there's almost nothing to do. And that character is not present in the original script, as we will discuss. It also doesn't make sense and he's totally unnecessary.

• 14:56Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, he's like a Jordan Peterson slash Andrew Tate, like hybrid.

• 15:00Lizzie Bassett?

  He's based on Jordan Peterson.

• 15:02Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, and again, I just, he just doesn't feel quite right to me there. I don't know.

• 15:08Lizzie Bassett?

  No, he doesn't feel quite right. He doesn't make sense. I mean, he's, obviously, he's very handsome. He's very charming. I love a sinister Chris Pine. Like, on paper, this could have been great, but he's just working with basically nothing when it comes to the script. I think the first, I don't know, third of this movie is engaging enough that I was willing to keep watching. I don't agree with you. I think the entire back half of this movie is real bad. I think this becomes like a laughably bad movie in the last half of it. And I say that liking almost every single person involved in this. Let me ask you this. What did you make of Harry Styles' accent in this movie? Let's just get this out of the way at the top.

• 15:46Chris Winterbauer?

  So I didn't understand that he actually had a British accent for a long time.

• 15:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

• 15:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, again, it didn't bother me that much. And there's a weird, I guess there could be a world in which you say he's effectively a simulation, right? He's putting on a performance for her. So you could explain away some of the behavior.

• 16:06Lizzie Bassett?

  That's the argument.

• 16:07Chris Winterbauer?

  I would say that more than, I mean, yes, okay. I thought he was trying to do an American accent at first, but the English accent was slipping through. Then I realized they say nationality, British, and you're like, oh, no, he's actually just been doing a British accent this whole time. And then he's-

• 16:20Lizzie Bassett?

  I have a theory about this.

• 16:21Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, maybe they changed it later.

• 16:22Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, I think that's the only way that this makes any sense is that, here's what I think, because to be clear, when they get to the real world outside of the simulation, he has a fully American accent. Inside the simulation, he has a weird quasi, sometimes fully British Harry Styles, sometimes kind of weird mid-Atlantic accent.

• 16:40Chris Winterbauer?

  I thought it was more mid-Atlantic at first. Yeah, that's what I thought.

• 16:43Lizzie Bassett?

  In certain scenes, yes, it seems like he is trying to do a kind of mid-Atlantic American accent. And in other scenes, it's like very clearly it's a Harry. Styles and David and I were just like, we kept looking at each other being like, what is going on? I think the only thing that makes sense to me personally is that perhaps he was trying to do an American accent or a mid Atlantic accent early on in the shoot and quickly enough, they realized this is not going to work. They said, use your regular accent. And then they tried to explain it away by saying, oh, he's putting on a British accent in the simulation.

• 17:17Chris Winterbauer?

  Sure.

• 17:18Lizzie Bassett?

  He's American in this scene, don't you know? And uh,

• 17:21Chris Winterbauer?

  I think we're going Irish now.

• 17:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, I'm not hired to play this part. It's not my fault.

• 17:26Chris Winterbauer?

  His character is done no favors also when they do reveal that he's trapped his ex-girlfriend, as we learn Florence Pugh in this manosphere reality. It again fails a lot of, the credulity falls apart. You know, she's a doctor, she's successful. I guess they're suggesting maybe she's a resident and that's why she doesn't have a lot of money yet.

• 17:45Lizzie Bassett?

  They call her a resident. So yeah.

• 17:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Right. Okay. So it seems like he is effectively just an unemployed, ugly loser. And I'm like, why is Florence Pugh with this person? Like this doesn't make any sense. And again, I think in attempting to explain with very quick shorthand, why he would be drawn into the manosphere, they miss an opportunity to explore, for example, maybe he was a doctor and he fucked something up and now he has lost his license. And so he gets pulled into this, you know, manosphere because he feels slighted by the world. Anything that can help us understand the basis of their relationship. Because again, the movie tries to have its cake and eat it too. At the very end, there's a moment where it's like, it's weird. They do a callback to his character. He's already died and you know, he's saying like, you know, basically stay with me in here.

• 18:28Chris Winterbauer?

  And it's like, you're a psychopath. You're effectively a murderer. This makes no sense. There's a no emotional through line for us to connect to anymore.

• 18:35Lizzie Bassett?

  So that right there to me is the big problem with both this entire movie and the entire publicity campaign for this movie. Is that the idea that their relationship is in any way sexy or appealing? That's it. That's the whole problem with this movie. It's not. She is literally in there against her will. Everything happening is happening without consent. She is unconscious in the real world. And it's just gross and weird and it doesn't matter how hot Harry Styles is.

• 19:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, they made the passengers mistake.

• 19:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 19:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Right? Like they did the same thing that passengers did, which was they told it from the perspective of the dream that is being presented by the actual criminal in the movie, which is a different Chris, Chris Pratt, who murders Jennifer Lawrence by waking her up early in cryosleep.

• 19:26Lizzie Bassett?

  All right. Well, let's get the basic information out of the way. So Don't Worry, Darling was directed by, of course, Olivia Wilde. It was released September 23rd, 2022. It was written by Katie Silverman with a story by Shane Van Dyke and Carrie Van Dyke. And if those names sound familiar, we will discuss why. Also executive produced by, do you know this? Catherine Hardwicke.

• 19:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes, I did know that Catherine Hardwicke and Roy Lee produced it out of Vertigo as well.

• 19:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 19:51Chris Winterbauer?

  It's got a lot of great heavy hitters from across, you know.

• 19:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Everything. It stars Florence Pugh, Harry Styles, Olivia Wilde, Chris Pine, Gemma Chan, Kiki Lane, Sidney Chandler, and I believe her feature debut, Kate Berlant, who is very funny, and Nick Kroll, who has, I don't know, two lines, three lines? Anyway, as always, the IMDb log line is, while her husband leaves home every day to work in a top secret facility, a young 1950s housewife begins to question her life when she notices strange behavior from the other wives in the neighborhood.

• 20:21Chris Winterbauer?

  It's a great premise. I stand by it.

• 20:23Lizzie Bassett?

  It is a great premise. All right, Chris, I want to take you back to April 26th, 2022. We're in Las Vegas, Nevada, more specifically in the massive Colosseum at Caesar's Palace. Can you smell it?

• 20:34Chris Winterbauer?

  I've never been there.

• 20:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh.

• 20:36Chris Winterbauer?

  To the Colosseum at Caesar's Palace. I've been to Vegas.

• 20:39Lizzie Bassett?

  It has a very specific smell.

• 20:42Chris Winterbauer?

  I can see the stripper cards all over the ground on the sidewalk.

• 20:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. Fun fact, I had a friend in college who thought it would be a really cool gift to bring me back all the stripper cards he could find with the name Lizzie on them.

• 20:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Nice.

• 20:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, thanks, I think. All right. So we're at the main stage at CinemaCon, a place for studios to trot out their hottest casts and creative to drum up hype for their upcoming films. I've been to CinemaCon. It's very weird. Olivia Wilde is currently on stage passionately detailing the deeper meaning behind her hotly anticipated sophomore directorial turn on Don't Worry, Darling, when suddenly someone approaches the front of the stage and they hand her a manila envelope marked personal and confidential. And Chris, I would like to watch what happens.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Not just the material tangible things like a beautiful house, some perfect weather, gorgeous cars.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  This is for me, right now?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  It's very mysterious.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  I'm gonna open it now because it feels like it's time. Is this a script?

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Got it. Thank you.

• 21:48Chris Winterbauer?

  She's got a lot of poise.

• 21:49Lizzie Bassett?

  She sure does.

• 21:50Chris Winterbauer?

  I gotta say, like, that is impressive that she did not react any more than she just did to-

• 21:55Lizzie Bassett?

  No, because-

• 21:56Chris Winterbauer?

  Go ahead and tell us what it is.

• 21:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, that is in fact not a script, which is what she originally thinks it might be, but custody papers she has just been served. So, the headlines coming out of her panel were not about her cast or her film, but instead about her separation from her former fiance, Jason Sudeikis, and her newly public relationship with one of the biggest pop stars in the entire world. Now, one of the top comments on the trailer of Don't Worry Darling was, "I want a movie about the behind the scenes of the film. There's no way this movie will be better than the behind the scenes drama." And Chris, that comment is correct. So, let's get into it.

• 22:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, we believe that about almost every movie, to be clear.

• 22:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, but this one is a doos. So, let's find out what went wrong. We're gonna start with Olivia Wilde. Do you know anything about her, Chris? Because I did not know anything about her background.

• 22:44Chris Winterbauer?

  This is probably wrong. I believe she has some sort of existing family connection, maybe through her dad, into the creative arts or the film industry. And Wilde is not her original name. She chose, that's a screen name that she chose based on Oscar Wilde.

• 22:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, we'll talk about it.

• 22:58Chris Winterbauer?

  And, I mean, originally broke out by way of The OC, had a great turn on House, a show I really loved, has flirted with, I would argue, like, A-list actress, like, sort of status within film, but has also spoken out publicly about how frustrated she has been in not seeing a lot of women directors, especially across her career. And then branched into directing herself with Booksmart, which was 2019, I want to say, which was a huge, unexpected hit. It blew up out of South by Southwest, I want to say. She had partnered with Katie Silverman. And then that sparked a very big bidding war, is my understanding, on her sophomore feature, which became Don't Worry Darling.

• 23:46Lizzie Bassett?

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• 24:28Lizzie Bassett?

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• 24:54Speaker 03

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• 25:00Speaker 04

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• 26:00Lizzie Bassett?

  All right, Chris, I'm gonna cut you off because you're doing the whole episode.

• 26:02Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.

• 26:04Lizzie Bassett?

  So we're gonna go into this. So you got a lot of that, correct?

• 26:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Directionally correct.

• 26:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Directionally correct, yes. So she was born, as you pointed out, Wild is not her last name. She was born Olivia Jane Cockburn. Can't blame her for changing that in New York City. And she grew up in the Georgetown neighborhood of Washington DC. She also spent summers at Ardmore in Ireland because she was a fancy baby. She is the child of extremely accomplished journalists. Her father, Andrew Cockburn, is a British Peabody winning documentarian and journalist. He also was the editor for Harper's Magazine. Her mother, Leslie Cockburn, American journalist, also worked on 60 Minutes. She also, I believe, actually ran a campaign for Congress in like 2018, her mother did. Her grandfather was Claude Cockburn, a prominent English communist,

• 26:52Lizzie Bassett?

  who actually was described by Joseph McCarthy as, quote, "one of the most dangerous reds in the world." And her babysitter was Christopher Hitchens, who, if you don't know, is a very famous British author and journalist. So I'm gonna say extremely fancy baby. She, however, had zero interest in becoming a journalist because she found it a very thankless profession, and she has said that. And in case all of this wasn't even fancy enough, she graduated from Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts. And at 18 years old, as you said, Chris, while studying in Dublin, studying theater, she changed her last name to Wild in honor of Oscar Wilde. So she bailed on plans to go to Bard College and headed to Los Angeles instead, where she took the James Cameron approach of learning on the job.

• 27:33Lizzie Bassett?

  And her first acting role was as Jewel Goldman on the television series Skin, followed by, of course, bisexual icon Alex Kelly on The OC, which is, I think, where both of us were introduced to her. And she's great on that show.

• 27:46Chris Winterbauer?

  She's a really talented actress, and she has an amazing look. She feels really timeless.

• 27:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Very severe.

• 27:54Chris Winterbauer?

  She's very severe, but you can transport. She's, that's one of the reasons I think she's so well suited to Don't Worry Darling. Oh, my gosh, does she feel of an era. You could, I mean, I have to imagine she was considered when they were casting Mad Men, for example. She would have fit in so seamlessly in that world. And she's also, you know, she fits in today. She's just one of those timeless people, I think, that you could put in any period and they would work.

• 28:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, I agree with you. I think she's an amazing actress. In 2007, she joined the cast of House, and she's also just kind of working her ass off across the early and mid aughts. She's in Year One, Tron Legacy, Cowboys and Aliens, In Time, People Like Us, Rush, Drinking Buddies, and more. But according to Olivia, she always wanted to direct, or at least she wanted more control than what was afforded to an actress, which, you know, we hear this time and time again, extremely understandable. It's honestly the reason that I did not want to pursue an acting career. She told Vanity Fair, quote, "I remember being on the set of Tron at age 25 and really wanting to do more to control the storyline of my character and wanting to have a bigger voice in the creative direction." To their credit, the producers and director on that film were remarkably receptive to that. "It was an awakening of sorts, because while they were being very

• 29:00Lizzie Bassett?

  generous and allowing me to speak up, that wasn't happening on other sets, and I just felt like I needed more actual control." She'd been using her time on sets to learn from the best, as Vanity Fair's Nicole Spurling wrote, quote, "Reed Moreno taught her how to pitch. Martin Scorsese gave her tricks to get her cast ready for production on day one. Spike Jonze helped her discover the art of curating emotion-inducing playlists." She does also produce several social justice-oriented short docs during this time, and in 2011, she made a directorial debut with a short film called Free Hugs that screened across several festivals. But she had a particularly eye-opening experience working with Mark Duplass on The Lazarus Effect.

• 29:35Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yes. I forgot about that movie.

• 29:38Lizzie Bassett?

  I love Mark Duplass.

• 29:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Probably don't love him in that movie. That movie was, that movie was a notorious fall apart film. We should probably cover it.

• 29:46Lizzie Bassett?

  She told Interview Magazine in 2022, quote, "I remember making this tiny horror movie with Mark Duplass many years ago, and he was so understanding of this really terrible schedule we had. The movie was very challenging for all these seemingly avoidable reasons, so I'd go back to the trailer and want to talk mad shit. And Mark said, 'Until you direct a movie, you really can't understand how difficult it is. Go direct, go produce, and then you'll understand.'" I think we know, after years on this podcast, he's right. She also has straight up said that she's made so many shitty movies, and she's like, "I just treated them all like a learning experience."

• 30:19Chris Winterbauer?

  You have to, because you have to show up, do your best, learn what you can, and you have no control. The only person that can make a hit is the audience, and you have to let it go.

• 30:27Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right.

• 30:28Chris Winterbauer?

  I say as I let go of nothing.

• 30:31Lizzie Bassett?

  That's not true. All right, so it's directing music videos, including ones for the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeros, where she really starts to find her footing as a director. And as you pointed out, in 2019, she makes an extremely impressive feature directorial debut with Booksmart. Tons of critical acclaim, gains a cult following pretty quickly. It failed to really rake in the cash, made about 25 million on a $6 million budget.

• 30:57Chris Winterbauer?

  And I think it actually, based on the purchase price out of Southby, I think it didn't like, it definitely underperformed what people were hoping.

• 31:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 31:04Chris Winterbauer?

  But it didn't matter, because part of that was, all that matters is the calling card for Olivia Wilde, you know what I mean, and Katie Silverman.

• 31:10Lizzie Bassett?

  That's exactly right. So she herself kind of thought that after the performance of Booksmart, even though so many people had loved it and it had made, you know, a cultural imprint, because it didn't make as much money as they had hoped, she thought she was cooked. She was like, I'm a female director, this is my first feature, it didn't make $100 million, so I'm not going to get a second chance. But she was wrong, because I think she had both underestimated the impact of Booksmart itself, and I really think she underestimated the impact of her own career as an actress, and what it meant to people of our age to see her name as the person directing a movie.

• 31:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, she had a pretty high Q rating coming out of that movie already. Like, she was known. You know what I mean?

• 31:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, and also, like, as we pointed out, we grew up with Olivia Wilde. You know, she was a huge part of the OC, she's a huge part on House, like-

• 31:58Chris Winterbauer?

  13, loved that character and storyline.

• 32:01Lizzie Bassett?

  All right, so it's time for her to find her second feature film. So let's talk about the script. Around 2018-ish, the original script was written on spec by brothers Carrie and Shane Van Dyke, and it ended up on the 2019 blacklist. Chris, can you briefly explain what the blacklist is?

• 32:17Chris Winterbauer?

  It's ostensibly a list of the, quote, "best unproduced screenplays of a given year."

• 32:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Right, total amateurs, yeah?

• 32:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Right. Oftentimes, these movies are already set up with producers. They may even have a director attached. I called a producer friend of mine, who I have a different project with the other day. And I was like, hey, can I ask you a favor? And he was like, are you asking me to vote for your blacklist scripts? And I was like, no, I have no scripts anywhere near the blacklist. But that's, it's like they're campaigned for, much in the way that Oscars are now. This is not just, you know, Joe Schmo on the street, getting their script looked at. Although I do want to say, it does surface great material. And it does surface previously undiscovered material from time to time.

• 32:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Sure, from time to time, it does. So Van Dyke is a pretty recognizable name, Chris. Who are, who are these people related to?

• 33:06Chris Winterbauer?

  The Dick Van Dyke connection, I think he's their grandfather.

• 33:10Lizzie Bassett?

  He is their grandfather, yes. They also wrote the screenplay for The Silence.

• 33:14Chris Winterbauer?

  That's right.

• 33:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Which is maybe something we would talk about if and when we cover A Quiet Place. So I don't want to spoil too much about that, but there's some dramas behind the scenes on that. And they had worked as writers on The Chernobyl Diaries as well. But they don't have a ton of writing credits to their names prior to this.

• 33:29Chris Winterbauer?

  They're kind of like B-movie writers. I don't mean that in a disparaging way at all. Like, they've had a lot of success in that area.

• 33:36Lizzie Bassett?

  No, I think they'd probably admit that, and they're actors as well.

• 33:38Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, transmorphers, paranormal entity. These are all like the mock buster style of film. So anyway, it is interesting. This is a big leap into prestige.

• 33:49Lizzie Bassett?

  It is, except when you read the original script.

• 33:52Chris Winterbauer?

  I know, I know.

• 33:52Lizzie Bassett?

  It means much more in the direction of what they were writing. And again, I preferred that.

• 33:57Chris Winterbauer?

  It's more self-aware, originally.

• 33:59Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, it knows what it is. And it's also just tighter, and it makes sense. All right, according to the writing studio, the concept for Don't Worry Darling had come from flipping through old 1950s ads. So smiling husband, obedient wife, there to serve him. They're looking at these ads and they're like, this is weird.

• 34:13Chris Winterbauer?

  The ads are nuts.

• 34:15Lizzie Bassett?

  They are nuts, yes. It's a great place to start, it's a great idea. So Wilde was drawn to their script right away. And she was reminded of a conversation she'd had with Gloria Steinem, following Trump's election in 2016. Gloria Steinem, Christian Bale's stepmother. Anyway, Wilde was basically like, what do we do about this? And Gloria was like, don't pay your taxes. Which also just makes me think of Steve Martin in The Jerk. I forgot. So Wilde told Vogue she immediately thought, quote, "I have property, I have kids, I don't think I can do that." And then it dawned on her that, you know, this is why nothing is going to change. And she said, "That was the beginning of Don't Worry Darling. I was like, who's that person who's actually willing to destroy the structure that is built entirely for their comfort? That's a selflessness on a level that I admire,

• 35:00Lizzie Bassett?

  but admit is far from the way I live my life." But she also felt the script needed a rewrite. Now, as we discussed, this makes total sense. It's written by two men from the perspective of a woman, and the entire thing is about women being trapped in a men's simulation. So I think no matter who took this thing on, you were gonna need to have a woman do a pass on it. And by the way, I'm sure I'm gonna get comments on this. That's not to say that men cannot write women's stories, or women cannot write men's stories. That's not what I'm saying at all. But it is important to make sure that you are getting the voice right. Like, you should check with someone, you know, when you're writing something like this. So she brought on her Booksmart collaborator Katie Silberman to take a pretty hefty pass at the script. Hefty enough to the point that Silberman gets the screenwriting credit and the Van Dykes get story. So, by all accounts, the Van Dykes are happy about this, though.

• 35:44Lizzie Bassett?

  They didn't fight the need for a woman's perspective on the script. In fact, they welcomed it. It's something that they wanted. And also, this is Olivia Wilde and Katie Silberman, and you know Catherine Hardwicke is involved. Like, they're thrilled about this. The rewrite supposedly gave the female characters more agency, but it also added the whole Victory Project thing and the sort of Victory Project Jordan Peterson, Frank character to the story, which you don't need. I don't understand why it's there.

• 36:11Chris Winterbauer?

  See, that's where I don't necessarily agree. I think those elements are fine. I think they could work fine, if I may. Imagine, we open with them moving in. He's starting a new job, and he's got this really cool boss who does not seem arch and villainous at the beginning.

• 36:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 36:27Chris Winterbauer?

  And instead is very welcoming. He is the next generation up, right? He's like 15, 20 years older. "We're so excited for you young people to get started. We can't wait, you know, for you to have kids, blah, blah, blah. Hey, we're just having a fun time." And she's new to this environment. And every day, the men disappear to go work on this Victory Project, where it's kind of like the Manhattan Project, right? In a way, it's like sworn to secrecy. I think that it totally could have worked as an element. It just feels like they telegraphed that it's something nefarious from the first beat of the movie, and there's no actual, like, following the clues. Everything just ends up being revealed through memories, anyway.

• 37:01Lizzie Bassett?

  That's totally fair, but it also, I think, feeds into my point that like, if you're not gonna do anything with that character, there's not any real reason for him to be there.

• 37:10Chris Winterbauer?

  Sure.

• 37:10Lizzie Bassett?

  You could communicate everything you need to communicate through the Harry Styles character, and in fact, you could have made him more interesting and given him more agency.

• 37:17Chris Winterbauer?

  Totally fair.

• 37:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Chris, shut your mouth, you professional screenwriter. You're wrong.

• 37:21Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, as a man, I have to say.

• 37:27Lizzie Bassett?

  No, look, I always love hearing you talk about screenplays because you are such a good writer. And so it's interesting to hear how these things break down.

• 37:33Chris Winterbauer?

  Let's be honest, I read a lot of, I read a lot of them.

• 37:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 37:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Because I got some time.

• 37:37Lizzie Bassett?

  You do not have time. Anyway, according to Wilde, she and Silverman always wanted to make a quote Trojan horse movie. She told the Associated Press, quote, "Something that on the outside is beautiful and entertaining, but once you crawl inside, it's actually much more complex and potentially really interesting and challenging." I would say a little too challenging.

• 37:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Or Jim Carrey inside a fake rhinoceros in Ace Ventura.

• 38:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Crawling nude, out of its butt. Great film. Some of our audience will appreciate that.

• 38:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Great. All right. July of 2019, Don't Worry Darling is announced, and you touched on this, Chris, but it sparks a wild, pun intended, bidding war. Everyone wants her sophomore feature. There's 18 different studios and streaming services who want this project, including Netflix, MGM, Apple, Blumhouse, many, many more. But the winning bidder is New Line Cinema, and it's not because they offered the most money. Chris, why do you think they won?

• 38:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Did they offer a good theatrical window? Was that a big part of it?

• 38:32Lizzie Bassett?

  That's exactly right. They promised her in writing a theatrical release. So it sounds like the studio expressed concern about the film's ending from the beginning. They felt that it was too ambiguous, but Wilde managed to convince them to keep it as is. I would say, that's not really your problem. The rest of the movie is kind of your problem. There's not enough time spent in the real world exploring how she gets in and out, if she's able to escape, yada, yada. We've talked about this, but I don't think the ending is your only issue. Regardless, they said, Olivia, do your thing. So in April of 2020, Don't Worry Darling's all-star cast is announced. Florence Pugh will be starring as Alice, which is actually a role Olivia Wilde considered playing herself in the first place. I saw Some sources that Florence may have been offered the role of Bunny initially, or may have been discussing that role.

• 39:17Lizzie Bassett?

  But then Wilde saw her in Midsommar. She was really blown away.

• 39:20Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Lizzie Bassett?

  She's amazing.

• 39:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, my God. I love that movie.

• 39:24Lizzie Bassett?

  And I think knew like this is a star.

• 39:27Chris Winterbauer?

  It's also a great template for a horror movie that takes place during the day.

• 39:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 39:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Which is what I think Don't Worry Darling is kind of trying to be.

• 39:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, totally. And it's a similar thing of, you know, a question of does she have agency by the end of that movie in terms of the decisions that she makes?

• 39:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Right. Or like, you know, a seemingly bright and happy community is actually a white supremacist inbred cult by the end of Midsommar.

• 39:50Lizzie Bassett?

  Right. And Florence, by the way, huge fan of Olivia Wilde. She wrote a glowing Instagram post sharing a screenshot of the announcement along with a tribute to Wilde. Quote, Olivia Wilde just tagged me in a picture. Gasp, number one. Olivia Wilde casted me in a film. Gasp, number two. She called Wilde her idol and expressed a lot of interest and excitement about joining the project. Ah, how the tides will turn.

• 40:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Meanwhile, I cast Florence Pugh's then boyfriend, Zach Braff, in my movie. So Olivia and I are just on parallel tracks this whole time.

• 40:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Based on how this goes, you might hope you're not.

• 40:22Chris Winterbauer?

  When New Line expressed concerns about my script, I said, thank you. I'll go take care of those right now.

• 40:28Lizzie Bassett?

  Thank you, sir. I will change it now.

• 40:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Yep.

• 40:29Lizzie Bassett?

  We also, of course, have Chris Pine as Frank. As I've said, a completely unnecessary and poorly written take on Jordan Peterson. Pine and Wilde had been friends for many, many years. By some accounts, he may have done this as a bit of a favor, but I think that's dismissive. She had just made an incredible movie. And this is your friend. This is a hot ticket. I don't know why he wouldn't want to be involved in this. And of course, the character of Jack would be played by?

• 40:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Shia LaBeouf.

• 40:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Shia LaBeouf. Yeah, all right. Let's take a brief pause here, Chris. I'd like to do a little retrospective on Shia and where he was at this point in his career. We all met Shia LaBeouf in 2000 on what show, Chris?

• 41:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Even Stevens.

• 41:07Lizzie Bassett?

  Even Stevens. And he's great.

• 41:11Chris Winterbauer?

  He is the comedic motor of a very funny show. Or at least that's how I middle school Chris remembers it.

• 41:17Lizzie Bassett?

  He becomes a breakout star very young and very quickly with movies like Disturbia, I secretly love that one, Teenage Rear Window, Transformers, and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. But by 2007, things had started to get weird. He was charged with a misdemeanor for criminal trespassing just after his 21st birthday for quote unquote "celebrating" in a Chicago Walgreens. They didn't think it was a party. They did eventually drop the charges. He was arrested for a suspected DUI in 2008 after a pretty nasty car crash that had crushed his hand. In 2013, he released a short film online that turned out to be completely plagiarized from Daniel Klaus's work, who we discussed on Ghost World. And this kicks off a really bizarre streak, where he borrows from other people's quotes

• 42:00Lizzie Bassett?

  and work, both professionally and also just in his own personal life and statements that he gives. It's really strange. In 2014, he shows up at the Nymphomaniac red carpet with a paper bag on his head that says "I am not famous anymore." He then launched a bizarre performance art piece where he stood in a room with said paper bag on and people could come and interact with him. Sadly, it sounds like someone assaulted him during this. And around that same time that year, at a performance of Cabaret on Broadway starring Alan Cumming and Michelle Williams, he was arrested for disrupting the show, and he eventually pled guilty to disorderly conduct. I'm gonna let Alan Cumming explain what happened on Conan.

• 42:35Speaker 07

  And I just want to hear from you, what the hell happened?

• 42:39Speaker 07

  Well, you know, I think he was just, he was really messed up and, and obviously, and he did that, he apologized, you know, didn't apologize, but you know, he sort of explained it last week. Yeah. And I just feel, I thought he did, that was a very good thing, but he was just wasted, and he was wasted from the second he walked into the thing. So there was an atmosphere in the, when I went down to go on stage and start the show, that everyone was freaking out because there was a, you know, someone who seemed to be a crazy person, shouting and stuff. Right. So you knew that, you could feel it in the air, you could sense. Yeah, very much so. There was a LeBeuf quality to the air, and you knew. And then what did he actually do? He grabbed? What did he do? He grabbed? Well, me, he grabbed, because I walk into the audience at one point, I introduce Sally Bowles, and it's Michelle Williams, and then I walk into the audience and go

• 43:23Speaker 07

  up to the back and come down. And as I walked past him, he was at a table on the end of a row, and he like whacked me. And, I know.

• 43:33Speaker 07

  But, but, you know, and then other things, you know, he kind of, he was, he was smoking and he was just, but I think, you know, I, I, um, I thought when he did that thing last week, Yeah. We've all done things where we've been out of it and messed up. And I just think it's, uh, you know, not everyone has to deal with it in such a worldwide scale. And I thought he'd made a very good recovery. And, and he did say that the reason he did it was that I was the sexiest man he'd ever seen, so. I will, you gotta go with that.

• 43:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay, so a couple of things I want to call out about this. First is that Alan Cumming, very charming, I think handles that extremely gracefully and beautifully. But, just to be clear, what actually happened, Shia LaBeouf slapped and like aggressively grabbed Alan Cumming's ass as he was walking past him in the middle of Alan Cumming's performance on Broadway as the emcee in cabaret. This is not an interactive show. And, you know, he says Shia sort of apologized, not really. You know, he admitted that he was drunk, that he was a mess. He does never really apologize for grabbing Alan Cumming, which Alan kind of addresses there. But the thing I want to call out is that it seems like the way that Alan Cumming feels he has to respond to this

• 44:40Lizzie Bassett?

  is, you know, with sympathy and almost like his own apologies. And I just, I think it's very interesting that this is the way that Shia LaBeouf is being treated during all of this. I don't know, Chris, what do you think?

• 44:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, I, that's interesting. I mean, it may be, it may be that he feels LaBeouf's a big star in the movies. I need to be, I need to tread carefully here. I actually, just given Cummings' background and the frankness with which he has spoken in the past to, for example, Stanley Kubrick on the set of Eyes Wide Shut, I interpreted that a little bit more as I have sympathy for someone who is clearly suffering some sort of mental breakdown or existential crisis.

• 45:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Totally, which I think is correct.

• 45:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, so, and maybe it's a combination of both, or you may be entirely right, but that's how I interpreted it.

• 45:27Lizzie Bassett?

  So he has a couple more drunken incidents and then around 2016, he started doing more self reflective performance art. And this is where we get some of the most iconic, you know, Shia memes. Just do it. But the good grace is short lived because he gets arrested again in 2017 for public drunkenness. And this is where he goes on the Mel Gibson special, a racist rant at his arresting officers. I believe somewhere in here, he also attacked or pushed someone at one of his performance art pieces about Donald Trump. So after the arrest, he apologized publicly and at that point he committed himself to sobriety. He went on the cover of Esquire, talked about his substance abuse issues and about his semi autobiographical film Honey Boy, which he had just written, which is of course about, you know, a child star and the relationship to the dad.

• 46:11Lizzie Bassett?

  And at the end of 2019, he had experienced pretty much a complete career renaissance, thanks to movies like The Peanut Butter Falcon and Honey Boy. So him being cast in Don't Worry Darling, it was a big deal because it kind of seemed to mark his like solidified return to mainstream Hollywood.

• 46:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it felt like especially Honey Boy really laundered his reputation and coming back, which is of course ironic because I believe he has since admitted that much of what was said about his father, the role that he plays in the movie was fictionalized. And that's not how his father actually treated him or behaved at all. And I believe he publicly apologized to his dad.

• 46:50Lizzie Bassett?

  You might wonder why I am telling you all of this about Shia's background. There's two reasons. One is that Shia LaBeouf had spent a decade at this point, over a decade, as an extremely troubled and unstable person, whose relationship to both substances and fame seemed very unhealthy. And two is that all of this was extremely public knowledge. And the fact that he was a, I think, to put it generously, volatile person, should not have been a surprise to anyone who was hiring him at this point. I'm not saying don't give people second chances or third or fourth or fifth or seventh or eighth. I'm not saying don't give somebody another chance after they have gotten sober. I'm not saying any of that, just saying, you know, pay attention. Pay attention to the last decade of someone's life and know what you're getting into.

• 47:35Lizzie Bassett?

  So that was April of 2020. And what else was happening in the early spring of that year? Of course, it was coronavirus.

• 47:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Covid, covid, we all got covid, covid.

• 47:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Everyone got covid.

• 47:46Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm unemployed in my apartment and I can't stop reading screenplays. Okay, that was my spring of 2020. I don't mean to make light of it. I just lost my mind as we all did for a period.

• 47:57Lizzie Bassett?

  One of my favorite things that happened during this lockdown, I was working for IMDb and I was still doing all the celebrity interviews and you know, they were doing them from their beautiful mansions and I was doing it from our very, very small apartment. And I was interviewing Pedro Pascal around this time, actually, for Wonder Woman 1984. And David, I think, didn't realize that I was interviewing Pedro Pascal at that point in time. And he just went in the bathroom and used the bathroom, flushed the toilet, walked out and Pedro Pascal saw. So, you know, good times. Everyone was having a good time.

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• 49:41Lizzie Bassett?

  All right. So, everything got locked down, of course, including this movie. It had been eyeing a late spring filming start, but when the cast was announced, there was, of course, no start date at that point because COVID. So, plenty of time for everybody to kind of sit around and stew. Fast forward to September of 2020, when the surprising news came out that, oops, Shia LaBeouf, you know what? He's actually busy. It was a scheduling conflict. He's out. And Harry Styles is in.

• 50:07Lizzie Bassett?

  This is not all that surprising, actually, because with COVID, things were moving around, dates were changing, everything had been pushed, so completely believable that he could have left due to a scheduling conflict. Now, if you're somehow unfamiliar with Styles, he was and is one of the biggest pop stars in the world. He began his career with One Direction. He'd already released two critically and commercially successful solo albums, and he was 26 years old at this point. He had one acting credit to his name, which was Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk. And according to Wild, she says he was always her first choice after seeing him in Dunkirk, in which he has a supporting, but you know, noticeable role. He's pretty good. I can't say I see what she saw in terms of what would apply from that role to this role, but he was busy touring

• 50:49Lizzie Bassett?

  and unavailable initially, except now with Shia out and a global pandemic shutting everything down, he's suddenly free. She'd also said that casting this role was difficult because most, you know, hot, young male actors didn't really want to take a role that was essentially second fiddle to the lead actress. But Harry Styles, fully on board. We'll talk briefly about the rest of the cast. Obviously, we mentioned Olivia Wilde also has a supporting and I think excellent turn in this movie. She's actually one of my favorite parts of the entire movie is her on-screen performance. Gemma Chan was announced as Shelley, and also Kiki Lane was announced as Margaret. She replaced Dakota Johnson.

• 51:25Chris Winterbauer?

  That's right.

• 51:25Lizzie Bassett?

  Who had to drop out because of a scheduling conflict with Maggie Gyllenhaal's film, The Lost Daughter. You've also got Sydney Chandler. This is her first movie. In case you don't know, she is Kyle Chandler's daughter. I think she's very good, and boy, does she look good with a pixie cut. I'm so jealous.

• 51:38Chris Winterbauer?

  She is very good. She, I think, is very well cast because she has that avian bone syndrome quality that you're looking for in the naive newcomer.

• 51:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Hollow bones, like a bird. Care for my bones?

• 51:49Chris Winterbauer?

  No, no, she's great. I really like her.

• 51:50Lizzie Bassett?

  She is great. Okay, so before filming, Wilde provided the cast with a lot of influences, including The Truman Show, Inception, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, Ocean's Eleven.

• 52:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Revolutionary Road? That's the one that kept coming to my mind. I don't know if she talked about that one at all.

• 52:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Not that one.

• 52:05Chris Winterbauer?

  All right.

• 52:05Lizzie Bassett?

  So filming began in October of 2020 for a budget of $35 million with a relatively tight 45-day shoot. To me, that's not that much money for what this looks like.

• 52:16Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it depends on what the cast is getting paid and I don't know. And it depends on what Olivia Wilde is getting paid.

• 52:22Lizzie Bassett?

  Probably a lot for Harry Styles.

• 52:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Probably. The 45 days feels tight for how long this movie is and all of the different sequences they have.

• 52:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, it's in the middle of a pandemic.

• 52:32Chris Winterbauer?

  It's the middle of a pandemic. They have an enormous set piece in the middle of the film that, you know, involves a striptease and it's very elaborate. So.

• 52:39Lizzie Bassett?

  Can I tell you, that made me so mad. You hired Dieter Von Teese.

• 52:43Chris Winterbauer?

  And you didn't show it.

• 52:44Lizzie Bassett?

  You don't even show her.

• 52:45Chris Winterbauer?

  I know.

• 52:46Lizzie Bassett?

  They cut away from it every single time. I have seen her live in person.

• 52:50Chris Winterbauer?

  I was wondering if there was like a ratings issue they were trying to avoid.

• 52:53Lizzie Bassett?

  You still see her boobs, not that I could tell. I mean, I've seen her show live where she, multiple times where she does that number. It's incredible. She's an amazing dancer. Like, I don't know why you would do that.

• 53:03Chris Winterbauer?

  I know. We get to see Harry Styles tap dance for five minutes and we cut away from Dieter Von Teese.

• 53:08Lizzie Bassett?

  And it's so weird. It's so weird.

• 53:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Lizzie Bassett?

  So they began filming in Santa Clarita and of course Palm Springs. Most of the scenes at Jack and Alice's house were shot on a soundstage. And then Frank's home was the iconic Kaufman Desert House and it is beautiful, as you said. Love the production design on this. New Line had recommended delaying the shoot, but Olivia Wilde was adamant that they had to start filming, had to get started. But of course, they're on an already very tight schedule, as you pointed out, and they had to pause at least twice for two week intervals due to someone testing positive from COVID.

• 53:42Chris Winterbauer?

  I can't even express how.

• 53:44Lizzie Bassett?

  It's just a nightmare.

• 53:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Everything about making a movie is momentum and that's why I am certain Olivia Wilde did not want to push the shoot because the minute you push, you lose an actor, you lose a crew member, like people's schedules shift. It's so hard to get the planets to align and then to have things shut down due to COVID. It's so stressful. I, again, we did not shut down on Minshat, but it was a lingering specter over the production that causes so much stress.

• 54:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. So before we get into the mess, I do want to take a moment to talk about some of the amazing people on this crew because as we have discussed, it just looks fantastic. You've got Matthew Le Batteik as the cinematographer. You know, he's known for working with Darren Aronofsky. He'd also done A Star is Born, obviously Black Swan, huge music video director. He's just amazing. I think this movie looks incredible. He was actually a later addition who, like Harry Styles, became available when a different project was shut down. You have Ariane Phillips, who has received four Oscar nominations for Best Costume Design. She's really amazing. I mean, she also led design for Girl Interrupted, Walk the Line, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, A Complete Unknown. The costumes in this

• 54:52Lizzie Bassett?

  are so cool. And there's some little Easter eggs that she throws in, like, since this is not, you know, a real world, it's a simulation, she put in little subtle twists, like, the color of the dresses. Like Bunny is wearing a cobalt blue dress, which would not actually have been very common in the 1960s. Alice wears a very vivid fuchsia one. Again, those are two colors that are not super common at the time. There's a lot of really cool little things like that that she throws in to kind of indicate that something is a little bit off. And I just, God, the costumes in this are beautiful. Really beautiful. The patterns, the colors. Katie Byron is the production designer. She'd worked with Wild'em Booksmart. She'd also done Zola, which I actually really enjoyed.

• 55:32Chris Winterbauer?

  It's a really good movie.

• 55:32Lizzie Bassett?

  It's great. And much of the design was informed by Slim Aaron's. I don't know if you're familiar with his photography.

• 55:38Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm-mm.

• 55:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, you should look it up. It's great. If you look up a photo called Poolside Gossip by Slim Aaron's.

• 55:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yeah. It's exactly Don't Worry Darling.

• 55:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. In fact, that's actually the Kaufman House. That is Richard Nutris Kaufman House that stands in for Frank's house in the film.

• 55:52Chris Winterbauer?

  It looks very like West Coast Kennedy, is how I would describe it, or something like that.

• 55:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 55:57Chris Winterbauer?

  It's very cool.

• 55:58Lizzie Bassett?

  If you're not familiar with Slim Aaron's, highly recommend looking him up, looking at his work. He really captured this vibe of the 1960s in a way that I think nobody else did. And I just, I love him. Photograph a lot of women in very interesting ways. Now, this was a really challenging movie to make because it was one of the first that started almost from scratch during the pandemic. It's not a production that had gotten work done prior to the pandemic and then had to stop. They, as you said, are trying to keep the momentum moving forward, having started in the middle of this. So they're having to deal with COVID protocol on top of everything else. I just have to say, again, shout out to these departments because I'm sure that made everything 10,000 times harder. And this movie just looks stunning. They also were really focused on making this movie sexy.

• 56:43Lizzie Bassett?

  Wilde was inspired by thrillers like Fatal Attraction and Indecent Proposal. She kept saying throughout filming that she wants everybody sexy, sexy, sexy, which we'll talk about is an interesting choice for this. She had a difficult time being both in front of and behind the camera. I think it's something she was understandably nervous about. She said, quote, "On my way, there's a producer telling me updates on COVID shutdowns and casting decisions. Then I get to the monitor, talk to my DP, make decisions about the actual shot and walk back. On my way back, someone else grabs my arm, tells me updates on costumes, production design, et cetera. Then I get back, sit down, call action, get up, do it again. I've never been more exhausted in my life than at the end of those days." And on top of all of this, in November of 2020, right around when filming had to again be shut down due to someone testing positive for COVID, People Magazine reported that Wilde

• 57:27Lizzie Bassett?

  had split from her fiance of seven years, Jason Sudeikis. It was reported at this point that the split had happened at the beginning of that year. We'll put a pin in that. On January 5th of 2021, the eve of the insurrection, Chris, Olivia Wilde and Harry Styles were photographed holding hands at his agent's wedding.

• 57:46Chris Winterbauer?

  And now we've finally found the first domino in the destruction of our democracy.

• 57:51Lizzie Bassett?

  No, but I do want to call out the fact that this happened the day before a mob stormed the Capitol and this remained in the news just tells you what a big deal this was. Now, I'm not going to say anything about their 10-year age gap. That doesn't feel that problematic to me, especially since Jason Sudeikis was eight years older than she was and no one cared about that. But I will say, dating your star when you are the director and you are actively in production is completely unprofessional. That's a power dynamic that is off from the beginning. And someone pointed out that in the Fifty Shades of Grey episode that we did, we didn't say anything about Sam Taylor-Johnson doing this during Nowhere Boy with Aaron Taylor-Johnson. And that age gap was problematic and they are right. So I just want to say, man or woman, it doesn't matter.

• 58:34Lizzie Bassett?

  There is a power imbalance implicit in this relationship. And also, it's your job not to do this. Don't do this. So in this initial People Magazine article, it's revealed that they'd been dating for a few weeks, that everyone saw it coming, and that, quote, "He hasn't been able to stay away and visited her trailer." Something else happened around this time before filming had wrapped. Around mid-December, Shia LaBeouf's former girlfriend and co-star in Honey Boy, FKA Twigs, filed a lawsuit against him, accusing him of sexual battery, assault, and emotional abuse. Now, I'm not going to get into the details of the lawsuit. They're very upsetting. It's really bad. Now, LaBeouf sort of denies the allegations, but he also says that he wants to give FKA Twigs the space to air her grievances, and then he does apologize for having hurt the

• 59:19Lizzie Bassett?

  people that he loves, saying to the New York Times, "I have no excuses for my alcoholism or aggression, only rationalizations. I have been abusive to myself and everyone around me for years. I have a history of hurting the people closest to me. I'm ashamed of that history, and I am sorry to those I hurt. There is nothing else I can really say." It's complicated. It's sad. I hope Mia Goth is okay. Olivia Wilde immediately comments about the lawsuit on her Instagram stories with, quote, "Love, respect, and support @FKTwigs." And then, very shortly thereafter, on December 24th, Variety reported a very different version of events around Shia LaBeouf's departure from Don't Worry Darling. Quote, "Though shooting had not yet started when LaBeouf departed, insiders close to the project say LaBeouf displayed poor behavior, and his style clashed with the cast and

• 1:00:04Lizzie Bassett?

  crew, including Wilde, who ultimately fired him." This is where we get the now infamous line that Olivia Wilde has a "no assholes" policy, to which I would say, "Why did you hire him in the first place? I understand that he's a good actor, but..." Anyway, we're going to spend a lot more time in this swamp this episode, but to me, this is icky. I'm not saying Olivia Wilde shouldn't show support to FKA Twigs. Of course, she should. But the timing of this coming out, to me, and maybe this is just hindsight being 2020, but it starts to feel... It starts to feel almost predatory of her lawsuit. It draws attention away from FKA Twigs' claims. And it feels a bit opportunistic to me. I could be totally wrong, but it's about to get a lot messier.

• 1:00:47Lizzie Bassett?

  So either at the end of the year or in early January, Wild also backed out of a music video she was directing that Shia LaBeouf was in. So they actually had multiple projects together at that time. And apparently by some accounts, he actually went around her and submitted his own cut, which is what really pissed her off. They did not get along, she backed out. On February 4th, she doubled down on the no assholes policy in Variety's Director on Director with Emerald Fennell. So let's listen to that.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  And the no assholes policy, it's really, I think, you know, puts everybody on the same level. Because one thing that I also noticed as an actress for years was how the hierarchy of the set separated the actors from the crew in this very strange way that serves no one. I mean, the whole idea of like, the talent and then the crew, as though like, they're just technicians. And then the actors are somehow separated and protected from all of the actual work, which makes them, I think, have probably more insecurity because they don't understand, they're not given the chance to understand the process. And I think actors would actually like to know more about like,

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  what's happening there when you're pulling my focus? And how's that? And what is that lens change? But the idea of, well, don't bother the actors and keep them separated and don't look at them. And, you know, I think it makes everyone quite anxious.

• 1:02:10Lizzie Bassett?

  I think everything she's saying there is valid. I mean, you can speak more to that as someone who's actually directed than I can.

• 1:02:15Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't like when my actors get too close to me. No, I think she's right. I agree. I think the hierarchical nature of a film set is a double edged sword, though. On the one hand, I agree, some of it is ceremonial and should not be enforced in any way that makes anybody feel lesser than. On the other hand, you know, I want to be respectful of an actor's energy and time. And so there are a lot of times where I don't want to bring them to set until the shot is really lit. And I got chewed out by an actor once, rightfully so, for bringing them too early. And he's like, I don't need to be here right now. I can be working on my lines, you know? I need to focus, my energy's elsewhere. And so again, I just think it's a double edged sword. But I do agree, you want it to feel collaborative. You want everybody to feel empowered on set to make decisions.

• 1:02:58Lizzie Bassett?

  And safe.

• 1:02:58Chris Winterbauer?

  And safe, et cetera.

• 1:03:00Lizzie Bassett?

  So on February 15th, filming officially wrapped and Wilde took the opportunity to praise many in the cast, most prominently Harry Styles, saying, quote, "Not only did he relish the opportunity to allow for the brilliant Florence Pugh to hold center stage as our Alice, but he infused every scene with a nuanced sense of humanity. He didn't have to join our circus, but he jumped on board with humility and grace and blew us away every day with his talent, warmth, and ability to drive backwards." All right, we're going to keep moving forward and we'll come back to what may or may not have happened on set later, when it is revealed chronologically. In December of 2021, because this thing is somehow still in post-production at that point and not even close to release, she goes on the cover of Vogue and described the movie as "the feminine mystique on acid." She asks, "Why isn't there any good sex in

• 1:03:44Lizzie Bassett?

  film anymore?" and discusses the representations of female hunger and female pleasure that the movie features. So I want to take a second and stop and talk about why that is weird. Chris, what do you make of this being sort of the first promotional push about this movie?

• 1:04:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, when you understand the construct of the film, which is effectively date rape continuously across the entire movie, for lack of a better term, it feels odd.

• 1:04:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, perpetual sexual assault, yeah.

• 1:04:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I think, if I may, my guess, I have no idea, this is a dart in the dark. I wonder if the edit things maybe were a little tricky in finding a pace and a structure and a tone, as you mentioned in the edit.

• 1:04:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, it took forever, so that would make sense.

• 1:04:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, but also sometimes you finish a film and for all we know, the movie is done. But based on the timing of this, if you wrap in February, in theory, you'd probably be targeting, again, this is speculation, Toronto in August, September, and then you'd maybe, or maybe you'd hit Sundance at the latest in January, and maybe if they're thinking, again, maybe New Line's just like, it's just going straight to theaters, although I know this played Venice at some point the following year. So I'm wondering if this was an attempt to curb speculation and putting her on the offensive, right? And she's kind of couching the movie in a specific way that obviously doesn't make sense. Once you've seen the movie, I don't know how to justify it. I'm just saying, like, this is, it's an unusual situation.

• 1:05:12Lizzie Bassett?

  It's strange. In an AAP interview, she said that the movie challenges America's really puritanical society. And she really doubles down in multiple interviews. She says that, you know, not a single man has an orgasm in her film, which is true when you watch it.

• 1:05:26Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, not on screen, I guess, is but like, in theory, that's all this is.

• 1:05:31Lizzie Bassett?

  In theory, yes, I know. It's really strange. I see what you're saying about this being a bit of a smokescreen, but having watched the movie, the movie itself feels so confused that I do think that this was something intentionally under consideration, but I don't understand why.

• 1:05:47Chris Winterbauer?

  There is something interesting where like, if there could have been maybe like a meta exploration of even when you are showing female sexuality or female pleasure, it is still through the construct of a male lens.

• 1:06:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Of a fantasy.

• 1:06:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Dominated landscape or fantasy, which is what Hollywood is. And like, so I guess I could see a meta narrative that's not presented here being an explanation.

• 1:06:10Lizzie Bassett?

  That's the only thing I could think of that would possibly make sense.

• 1:06:12Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:12Lizzie Bassett?

  So over the next few months, of course, she and Harry Styles are photographed together, happily holding hands, continuing to generate an absolute frenzy of press. On April 2nd of 2022, Styles released As It Was, which was a huge hit, drawing even more attention to the couple. On April 27th, at CinemaCon, we are back where we started. She was onstage to promote Don't Worry Darling, being served custody papers for her two children with Jason Sudeikis. Now, this is very shitty for obvious reasons. Sudeikis did immediately insist he had no knowledge. This is how she was going to be served, and that he would never have condoned this plan. He expressed regret that her moment onstage was marred by this. But for her part, Olivia Wilde alleged that the ambush was completely deliberate.

• 1:06:55Lizzie Bassett?

  She would later tell Vanity Fair, "So many people were shocked on my behalf. Unfortunately, I wasn't shocked. There's a reason I didn't stay in that relationship. That was consistent with my experience of the relationship." She also pointed out that like, this took an awful lot of planning for someone to get into her panel and be able to approach the stage like that. To be fair, we will never know.

• 1:07:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Took a real Ted Lasso type to put that together.

• 1:07:19Lizzie Bassett?

  Look, we're never gonna know. Family law attorney David Glass, who did not work on this case, who's just a commentator, told People Magazine, quote, "If you're gonna go to that sort of extreme lengths to do it publicly, I can't see the client not knowing about it. I did a bit of research on this. There were multiple, you know, celebrity attorneys who said that it was unlikely that he wouldn't have known, but I can see a world where he was told they were going to try and serve her at CinemaCon but wasn't aware of how publicly they were going to do it or when. Either way, it reflected very badly on him and seemed to cement Olivia Wilde as both a hero and a victim. And again, she handles it incredibly well.

• 1:07:53Chris Winterbauer?

  I know. David goes to the bathroom in the back of your Pedro Pascal interview and you fall apart. Olivia Wilde gets served papers onstage and she's fine. The mark of a professional.

• 1:08:02Lizzie Bassett?

  And look, again, I don't know. So this is purely speculative. I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship. If he did orchestrate that, boy, was it dumb. Because he looks terrible at the end of this. That's the biggest argument for me as to why he probably didn't know this is when they were gonna do this.

• 1:08:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, if she had a moment of after the interview where she says they're centering female pleasure, she thinks to herself, wait, maybe I shouldn't have said that. He certainly had a moment after this was delivered where he thought, oh shit, maybe this is not gonna go the way I thought it was going to.

• 1:08:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, if that's the case, Jesus. But the point being, already so much, if not all of the press around this movie, is about her personal life.

• 1:08:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:41Lizzie Bassett?

  By mid-August of 2022, two teaser trailers had dropped for the film, and they certainly seemed to be highlighting the sexual tension between Harry Styles and Florence Pugh. And the internet was abuzz about this as well. The one person, though, who wasn't stoked about it was Florence Pugh. She told Harper's Bazaar, quote, "When it's reduced to your sex scenes or to watch the most famous man in the world go down on someone, it's not why we do it. It's not why I'm in this industry." Just a week later, Wilde praised Pugh's performance to Variety and shut down rumors that Harry Styles was paid three times more than Pugh, although I would believe it if that were true. And she basically says, look, all of these rumors are starting to swirl just because the tabloids love pitting women against each other and really, everybody loved everybody else. Nothing, nothing wrong, nothing to see here.

• 1:09:26Chris Winterbauer?

  It doesn't help that because of the nature of the movie, you can't actually talk about it that much because the movie is, there's just one big reveal, right? And so you can only go so far before you say, but something else is going on, right? And then you're kind of done talking about the movie. It's, I think it's like the nature of the movie itself makes it so you don't want a giant delay between when you first announce it and when it comes out, because there's only one thing that it reveals itself to be at the end.

• 1:09:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, and also, you know, in fairness, Florence is referring to the moment in which Harry Styles goes down on her in the movie and that being so heavily talked about. It's in the teaser. It also was in a little teaser package that I believe was shown to the author of the Vogue article. And that woman also called that out as like a, you know, a very salacious moment. So like, it's not just Olivia Wilde who is calling this out and making that the discussion around this movie. But Chris, something strange was happening. Wilde posted a few tributes to the film on Instagram at this point, including one that was very effusive about Florence Pugh in particular. But people noticed Florence Pugh had not interacted with any of these posts. Anonymous rumors started to swirl that Pugh may have been disturbed by Wilde and Styles'

• 1:10:39Lizzie Bassett?

  behavior on set because Wilde was maybe still with Sudeikis when they got together. To be clear, I have not found anything concrete to verify that that is the case. And on August 24th, in that same Variety interview I just mentioned, Olivia Wilde again chose to double down on why she had fired Shia LaBeouf. She called his energy combative. She said it was her job to protect the cast and crew, particularly with a movie like this. And after months of silence, it appears that this was the straw that finally broke the camel's back because Shia LaBeouf responded two days later.

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• 1:12:21Lizzie Bassett?

  He sent the email that he had originally written to Olivia Wilde to Variety immediately following this interview, and I want to read an excerpt. Quote, "What inspired this email today is your latest Variety story. I am greatly honored by your words on my work. Thank you. That felt good to read. I'm a little confused about the narrative that I was fired, however. You and I both know the reasons for my exit. I quit your film because your actors and I couldn't find time to rehearse. I have included as a reminder the screenshots of our text exchange on that day. I know you are beginning the press for Don't Worry Darling, and that the news of my firing is attractive clickbait, as I am still persona non grata and may remain as such for the rest of my life. But speaking of my daughter, I often think about the news articles she will read when she is literate. And though I owe and will owe for the rest of my life, I only owe for my actions.

• 1:13:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Firing me never took place, Olivia. And while I fully understand the attractiveness of pushing that story because of the current social landscape and the social currency that brings, it is not the truth. So I'm humbly asking, as a person with an eye toward making things right, that you correct the narrative as best you can." And Shia does, in fact, come with the receipts for all of this. He includes text message exchanges between himself and Olivia Wilde, and, most damningly, a video message that Wilde sent him reportedly two days after he seemingly quit the project. And Chris, get ready to cringe. We are going to watch this.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Shia, Shia, I'm not ready to give up on this yet. I think this might be a bit of a wake-up call for Ms. Lo. If she really commits, if she really puts her mind and heart into it at this point, and if you guys can make peace, what do you think? Is there hope?

• 1:13:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Not great, Bob.

• 1:13:59Chris Winterbauer?

  You know, what's interesting too is, first of all, it's just hilarious that somebody's put this on YouTube with the hashtag like #TimesUpOlivia.

• 1:14:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Times Up Olivia, I know.

• 1:14:06Chris Winterbauer?

  You serial killer. But what also gets tricky, it seems like unfortunately Olivia Wilde attempted to rebrand this as something it wasn't.

• 1:14:15Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 1:14:15Chris Winterbauer?

  That being said, there's also a world where that was her position at one point in time, and then she fired him later. And I don't know if that's the case, or that was her position.

• 1:14:27Lizzie Bassett?

  That's not the case.

• 1:14:28Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm just saying, or, and then he quit later. But it is like, when you see one clip contextless, you can give me the context. It's easy to draw one conclusion, but it's also possible, hey, I tried to make this work for a long time, and then I had to part ways, blah, blah, blah. But Lizzie, you tell me, give me the truth, as you have found it.

• 1:14:43Lizzie Bassett?

  So as far as I can tell, that video was sent to Shia LaBeouf two days after he quit the project. And he never returned. So here's the thing. She kind of explained this away on Colbert later by saying this, quote, "Early on in the process of making the film, as the director, I tried to mediate a situation between people," I think we can pretty clearly guess, him and Florence Pugh, most likely, "to try to see if they can work together happily. Once it became clear that it was not a tenable working relationship, I was given an ultimatum. I chose my actress, which I'm very happy I did." And she does clarify, that ultimatum was given to her by Shia LaBeouf.

• 1:15:20Chris Winterbauer?

  I could buy it. It's like he's saying, I'll quit if you don't side with me, or if you don't get her to meet me halfway, or whatever it is.

• 1:15:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Or you don't get rid of her.

• 1:15:28Chris Winterbauer?

  Or you don't get rid of her. And she says, I'm not going to get rid of her. So he quits. And she says, well, in my mind, that means I fired him.

• 1:15:34Lizzie Bassett?

  I think that that is the case. I don't think she's a psychopath who completely fabricated an entire story about this, in which she was begging him to stay the entire time. He was the hero and he left. That does not make sense, knowing what we know about Shia LaBeouf. I don't think it makes sense, knowing what we know about her. We will never know, but I have to imagine that that was the situation. Now, did this set the stage for what may be about to come between her and Florence Pugh, in terms of Florence Pugh not feeling supported because of how Wilde handled this? Yeah, potentially. It's a tough position to be in. I'm not excusing Olivia Wilde at all. But, you know, you're a director. These are two huge stars. You may feel that you need both names to finance the movie.

• 1:16:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 1:16:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, so you are in a bad position there. So the same day that this comes out, the rap reported that Florence Pugh would not participate in press outside of the Venice Film Festival. She did have commitments because Dune Part Two was in full production at this point. It was filming, but it's a little weird. And in September of 2022, shortly before the film's release, Vanity Fair journalist Julie Miller wrote, "A troubling rumor emerged about the Don't Worry Darling set. I say troubling because it has a misogynist air to it and continues to bounce through social media." Now, the rumor that she is talking about is that Wilde was absent from the set frequently because she was running off with Harry Styles. And it even goes so far as to insinuate that Pugh and cinematographer Matthew Libatique

• 1:17:03Lizzie Bassett?

  may have had to direct some scenes because of Wilde's absence. Wilde said, "The idea that I had five seconds in the day to be distracted by anything is laughable. My tendency is to be everyone's best friend and to socialize," and this is about Florence Pugh, "and I think she often just needed the time and space to focus. So the way I supported her was to give her space and to be there if she needed anything. Florence was very focused on turning out that performance, which I can assure you took all of her energy." And to top it all off, the marketing for the movie was pretty bizarre. In a September 2022 article that we'll talk a little bit more, Vulture quoted a rival studio executive who said, "They've got young girls excited because of Harry Styles and that's it. Their campaign keeps changing. It's a thriller. No, just kidding. It's a romantic drama. It's this, it's that. Kim Kardashian liked it on Instagram.

• 1:17:47Lizzie Bassett?

  The audience is like, what the fuck is going on?" Which, from what I remember, is about right. And on September 5th, the movie premiered at the Venice Film Festival in the prestigious out-of-competition slot. But Florence Pugh skipped the film's press conference and introductory photo call. Her absence was, of course, explained by Dune Part Two filming. With her flight from Budapest, she couldn't possibly be there. Olivia Wilde is like, "I don't need to feed the tabloid gossip about this. She's busy, she's filming." However, The New York Times' Kyle Buchanan pointed out that Florence Pugh was "in Venice" and was seen roughly five minutes after Wilde was asked about her non-attendance. Whoops.

• 1:18:25Chris Winterbauer?

  This is a classic example of once a narrative envelops a film, everything will stick to it with that same sort of tenor.

• 1:18:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, it gets worse.

• 1:18:33Chris Winterbauer?

  No, I understand, but I'm just saying, for example, there is a world where, who knows? Florence was able to get on an earlier flight, but she was too tired and she said, "Don't tell him I'm here early." I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

• 1:18:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, it could be that, Chris. But then Florence Pugh's stylist, Rebecca Corbin Murray, shared a video on Instagram of Florence Pugh casually strolling along a Venice sidewalk with an Aperol spritz in hand with the caption "Miss Flo" underneath it.

• 1:19:00Chris Winterbauer?

  AI.

• 1:19:02Lizzie Bassett?

  It's not AI.

• 1:19:03Chris Winterbauer?

  She had nine fingers on each hand.

• 1:19:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Of course, she did arrive in time to walk the red carpet. She attended the premiere, though she and Wilde were not seated next to each other. They also did not pose together. It received a four to five minute long standing ovation. And according to some eyewitnesses, Pugh never made eye contact with Wilde. So obviously, Chris, as you're pointing out, the festival ended up providing endless fodder for tabloids. I don't know if you remember Chris Pine during this, but he looked like he was trying to leave his body behind.

• 1:19:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, spit gate.

• 1:19:32Lizzie Bassett?

  No, just during the interviews. I mean, he just looks absolutely dead inside. Harry Styles said that his favorite thing about the movie was that it, quote, "feels like a movie." And then, of course.

• 1:19:41Chris Winterbauer?

  That's on Harry Styles.

• 1:19:43Lizzie Bassett?

  I know. Of course, you just mentioned it, but there is the absolutely bizarre video where it sure looks like Harry Styles spits in Chris Pine's lap. Chris, would you like a playback of this?

• 1:19:54Chris Winterbauer?

  No, I've seen it. I don't need to watch it again.

• 1:19:57Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't care. You're gonna see it again. Here we go.

• 1:20:02Lizzie Bassett?

  According to Chris Pine, he said that Styles had just leaned down and said, "It's just words, isn't it?" Which was an inside joke between them. But Chris Pine, I love you. I have eyeballs. And what my eyeballs saw were Harry Styles leaning over and spitting in your lap, sir. What happened? What happened on this set? It is bizarre.

• 1:20:22Chris Winterbauer?

  I will say.

• 1:20:23Lizzie Bassett?

  He's not saying words.

• 1:20:24Chris Winterbauer?

  No, no, no, no, no, he's not.

• 1:20:26Lizzie Bassett?

  He's spitting on him.

• 1:20:27Chris Winterbauer?

  What's weird is Pines' reaction is

• 1:20:29Lizzie Bassett?

  He's laughing.

• 1:20:30Chris Winterbauer?

  the reaction that you would have to an inside joke like.

• 1:20:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, I agree.

• 1:20:33Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh shit, I can't believe you. Like, they made a bet or something backstage and Harry Styles said, "I'll spit in your lap." And then he actually did it and Chris Pine is laughing because he can't believe he actually did. It is weird. It's just weird to look at. None of the reactions seem to make sense.

• 1:20:46Lizzie Bassett?

  No. All right. So one good thing came out of this festival, which is that Ariane Phillips was awarded the Campari Passion for Film Award, given to the director's closest collaborators. It also should be noted that most of those very close collaborators of Wilde strongly denied any onset conflict. Matthew Le Batteig called it "the most harmonious set I've ever been on." I don't know if I buy that. He said, "Whatever happened, it happened way after I left and started doing something else. I was never witness to anything."

• 1:21:13Chris Winterbauer?

  He's Darren Aronofsky's cinematographer. This may be the most harmonious set.

• 1:21:17Lizzie Bassett?

  That's true. That's true. But he said, "I was never witness to anything. I didn't feel anything. You know, you get a feeling that it might be something going on. I didn't feel it." Three days after the premiere, Olivia Wilde doubled down on firing Shia LaBeouf again, despite everything we have seen and heard. According to Wilde in Vanity Fair, Florence Pugh told her she was uncomfortable with Shia LaBeouf's behavior. I believe that. And then Wilde says she called LaBeouf herself and fired him, saying, "My responsibility was towards her. I'm like a mother wolf. Making the call was tricky, but in a way he understood. I don't think it would have been a process he enjoyed. He comes at his work with an intensity that can be combative. I want him to get well and to evolve because I think it's a great loss to the film industry when someone that talented is unable to work."

• 1:22:01Lizzie Bassett?

  She just, uh, she just needs to shut her mouth at a certain point because it's clear that the way that she represented it is not 100% true. I think Vanity Fair journalist Julie Miller makes a great point when she said, "The tricky and quintessentially Hollywood part is that to spare LaBeouf's ego, Wilde seems to have allowed him to believe what he wanted to believe that he was quitting." I think that's probably right. As for Florence Pugh, Wilde again stood up and said, "There was no shade. It's no ill will. Florence is just busy." Now, some people have pointed out that Florence's then-boyfriend, Zach Braff, who we've obviously had on the show, he's in your movie, was good friends with Jason Sudeikis, and that perhaps this was the source of the tension between her and Wilde. I want to be very clear, I don't buy this for two seconds.

• 1:22:43Lizzie Bassett?

  Florence Pugh is a professional actress at the top of her game. She is not a bitchy high-schooler. I find it very hard to believe that she would have essentially refused to promote a movie she starred in because her boyfriend's buddy got replaced by Harry Styles. I think that is insulting to Florence Pugh. I don't buy it. Meanwhile, Chris Pine also bowed out of press appearances, including Jimmy Kimmel, and he did not have Dune Part II. So, it's just a mess at this point. September 23rd, 2022, it was finally released, way more than a year after this had finished filming. During its opening weekend, it earned 19.3 million at the domestic box office. It went on to gross 87.6 million worldwide. And the day that it came out, Vulture released

• 1:23:25Lizzie Bassett?

  an expose called "Don't Worry Darling, It's Judgment Day." And in this article, an anonymous source claimed that sometime in January of 2021, about 2/3 of the way through filming, Pugh and Wilde had gotten into a screaming match due to Wilde's propensity to disappear with Harry Styles. It alleges that the conflict went all the way up the New Line Cinema totem pole to then-chairman Toby Emrick, who supposedly had to negotiate with Pugh to get her to participate in the film's press in any way. Another anonymous source said that they were particularly displeased with how she'd handled Shia LaBeouf, stating, "Olivia is either a mad genius who figured out a way to make people more aware of the movie in a way that just drives up the box office, or she doesn't have any self-awareness that she is fucking up her movie."

• 1:24:09Lizzie Bassett?

  In retrospect, I think unfortunately, we know it was the latter. Following this scathing report, 40 members of the crew did band together and say that no screaming match ever happened, and that it was categorically false. Florence Pugh never said a damn thing. The reviews were not kind. They correctly pointed out that it was confusing, full of plot holes and convoluted ideas. They were confused by what kind of accent Harry Styles had and why Wilde had chosen this movie to highlight female pleasure, considering, as we've discussed, it is a movie about trad wives basically in a simulation without their own consent. But everyone did seem to agree that Miss Flo was a damn good actress and somehow turned in an engaging performance in the middle of all of this. Now, Chris, when I think about films where tabloid gossip about behind the scenes relationships dominated

• 1:24:54Lizzie Bassett?

  the press prior to release, there is one other movie that immediately comes to mind. Any ideas what I'm thinking of?

• 1:25:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Is it recent?

• 1:25:01Lizzie Bassett?

  No, 2005.

• 1:25:02Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, Giley?

• 1:25:04Lizzie Bassett?

  No, Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

• 1:25:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:07Lizzie Bassett?

  But Giley's an interesting one to call out, too.

• 1:25:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Giley would be 03, I guess, or whatever it was. Yeah.

• 1:25:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, but there's a major difference between Mr. and Mrs. Smith and frankly, Giley and this movie, where the gossip actually did translate to massive box office success with Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And that, I think, is because that's a good movie. It's a very solid movie. It is.

• 1:25:27Chris Winterbauer?

  It's pretty solid. I think if you were to give it a rewatch, it's good. I enjoy Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

• 1:25:33Lizzie Bassett?

  I've seen it somewhat recently. It's fun.

• 1:25:34Chris Winterbauer?

  I think it's better than Don't Worry Darling. That's a subjective opinion.

• 1:25:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 1:25:38Chris Winterbauer?

  But I don't think it's like an obvious smash hit. I think it's in the 60% range on Rotten Tomatoes. Not that that should be an indicator of anything necessarily. But I also think that movie has a somewhat confused plot and jarring tone at times. But it works on the chemistry.

• 1:25:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Sure.

• 1:25:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Again, I think the reason the movie works, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie have great chemistry in that movie. They are so fun together.

• 1:25:59Lizzie Bassett?

  That is true.

• 1:25:59Chris Winterbauer?

  And Harry Styles and Florence Pugh do not.

• 1:26:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Ooh, it's a void.

• 1:26:03Chris Winterbauer?

  I mean, Florence Pugh does all the work.

• 1:26:05Lizzie Bassett?

  It's just a vacuum. It's a Dyson in the middle of that house. There is just nothing happening.

• 1:26:09Chris Winterbauer?

  It's just tough. He's, look, he's an amazing musician. He is, probably by his own admission, he is not a professional actor. And if you were going to put him opposite Florence Pugh, who, in my book, is in the top five greatest working actors right now, period.

• 1:26:23Lizzie Bassett?

  100%.

• 1:26:24Chris Winterbauer?

  That's so hard.

• 1:26:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, he's a last minute addition.

• 1:26:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes.

• 1:26:28Lizzie Bassett?

  Right before this starts filming. Look, he's miscast, he's misused, the script isn't great. The direction feels confused. It's just not a good movie. The whole thing is a very depressing waste of talent. I like Olivia Wilde, but my God, did this get fucked up? She's coming back this year with The Invite, which will premiere at the Sundance Film Festival. It looks like a small, much more contained movie starring Seth Rogen, Edward Norton, Penelope Cruz, and Wilde herself. I am excited to see it. I am glad she's getting another chance. People should be allowed to make mistakes and obviously she made some big ones. But I do think she's a talented director. I do want to see what's next. I will never understand why she handled the press the way that she did.

• 1:27:09Lizzie Bassett?

  I have to imagine that the amount of attention she was getting from the relationship with Harry Styles was something she just had no idea how to manage.

• 1:27:17Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I think I have a lot more sympathy for this movie than you do, and I wasn't expecting that necessarily. And I think a lot of people are gonna be like, Chris, you are attempting to explain away the evidence that is right before our eyes. And I will stop doing that because Lizzie has proven all of my theories wrong across this entire episode.

• 1:27:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, I did the same thing at every turn in this. I was like, it must be something else. And then it's not.

• 1:27:38Chris Winterbauer?

  If I would be the world's worst Sherlock, just go against me in every instance. But what I will say is I completely agree, but I have a lot of sympathy.

• 1:27:47Lizzie Bassett?

  I do too.

• 1:27:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Even as I say, bad decision, bad decision, which it's very easy to say from the sidelines. But you know, again, we've had certain, the only things I can compare it to is there have been issues I've had with actors. I've never had to fire an actor, but God, it's so hard because you're trying, you want to appease them. At the same time, it's like, I kind of need to be their boss and I need to get them to do what I'm saying, but I need them to get along. And that can be very stressful. And then especially dealing with the studio above you. And it feels like your movie could fall apart or be taken away at any given point in time. I agree, the need to like get ahead of everything and whatever advice she was getting from a publicist, if any, was not good at this time.

• 1:28:24Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 1:28:24Chris Winterbauer?

  And then, you know, on top of it, going through a divorce and then making a decision to get involved with your star is just obviously not only unethical from a business practices perspective, but clearly just a bad idea. But you know, I think about, we had a moment on this show, because I've never actually had anything this bad on. By the way, the only reason I've never dealt with something like this is nobody's ever cared about my movies to the degree that they have cared about Harry Styles getting a cup of coffee. But we had a moment on the show where we released an episode and there, you guys can guess which one, there was an actress who, a lot of people were really upset we didn't take a stance on this actress's stances on things. And we were like, what

• 1:29:07Chris Winterbauer?

  do we, you know, this is consistent with how we've released things, but what do we do? Do we pull down? But whatever decision we made, there was no right decision, is what we quickly learned by the end of that episode. Since then, can I look back and say, oh, yes, this is the exact path that I should have charted through those muddy waters, shark-infested waters? Yes. At the time, Lizzie and I were on the phone blindly trying to come up with a strategy, and we're just a small little podcast. So I just wanted to say, I have mostly sympathy for everybody who worked on this film, because there's a lot of great work that is overlooked.

• 1:29:40Lizzie Bassett?

  I have a lot of sympathy for everybody who worked on this film. Yes, I think that that is the important thing to call out. There is a lot of great work on this, which we can talk about momentarily and what went right. I think it's a complicated situation, very clearly. I think that what that Vanity Fair writer said is probably the most accurate we're ever gonna get, is that, you know, she kind of allowed Shia LaBeouf to believe that he was quitting. And I think that's fully the way that you would probably be expected to handle that situation when you're dealing with a name like Shia LaBeouf, opposite a name like Florence Pugh, and that sucks. And I can see why Florence Pugh would feel unsupported by the situation being handled like that. And it's just, it's messy and it doesn't draw headlines. The mistake, I think, is twisting it in the way that it

• 1:30:22Lizzie Bassett?

  was twisted and looking at his, really, abuse of FK Twigs as an opportunity, is, for me, where I find this unforgivable. You'll be glad to know, Chris, that Shia LaBeouf has since become best friends with Mel Gibson and converted to Catholicism. So we'll see what comes of that.

• 1:30:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Why am I glad to know about that?

• 1:30:45Lizzie Bassett?

  When I read that, I was like, oh, oh, all right. I see we've gone full circle.

• 1:30:52Chris Winterbauer?

  They made it, kind of did a movie together. Gibson helped him with the movie, I think.

• 1:30:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, he did.

• 1:30:57Chris Winterbauer?

  As our audience points out, my best friend, Mel Gibson.

• 1:31:04Lizzie Bassett?

  You love Mel Gibson. All right, Chris, what went right?

• 1:31:07Chris Winterbauer?

  A lot. That's what's so interesting about this movie. There are so many things you could pick that went right in this movie, from the casting of many of the female roles, et cetera. But I really, because it is a style I love so, so, so much, I have to give it to production designer Katie Byron. Everything from the look of the homes to the way, I mean, again, they shot that main home on a soundstage. The build, it does not feel like a build. It is gorgeous. It feels lived in. Everything down to the way that they make that diorama of the Victory Project, which again, is not used very effectively in the film, but looks amazing. I just think the look of this movie is seamless, and that's really hard to do.

• 1:31:52Chris Winterbauer?

  And so you could give it to any number of departments, but I'll just give mine to Katie Byron and the entire production design team. There are so many people involved and they all just did incredible work on this movie.

• 1:32:03Lizzie Bassett?

  Agreed. All right, Chris, well, that wraps up our coverage of maybe the most recent film we've covered.

• 1:32:08Chris Winterbauer?

  You didn't do a what went right.

• 1:32:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Ah, you're right.

• 1:32:11Chris Winterbauer?

  You jerk.

• 1:32:13Lizzie Bassett?

  Harry Styles' accent. No, my what went right is the same as you. I think that the costumes and production design on this are fabulous. And also like Florence Pugh. Florence Pugh does hold it together and turn in a great performance in a movie that is just a mess. It just is a mess. And I will go farther than you. I think it's straight up bad, but she is always engaging to watch. She looks great. The costumes look great on her. You know, it's interesting that Olivia Wilde framed this as being about female sexual pleasure, because I think actually, one of the things that this movie does very well is catering to the female eye just visually. Like, it is so beautiful and enjoyable, and it's really paying attention to the costumes and the makeup and the texture and so much stuff

• 1:32:57Lizzie Bassett?

  that, you know, I'm not saying men can't enjoy too, but like as a woman, it really felt like it was designed visually for me. And I think that would have been a more understandable direction to have taken. With this movie than the one that she did? So yeah, that's my what went right.

• 1:33:13Chris Winterbauer?

  All right.

• 1:33:14Lizzie Bassett?

  All right, let's get out of this. I don't like living here anymore. Let's get out of the Victory Project. Chris, how can people support the podcast if they're enjoying listening?

• 1:33:21Chris Winterbauer?

  If you are enjoying the show, there are a few easy ways to support the podcast. First of all, you can tell a family member or friend, check out What Went Wrong. It's pretty good. Second, you can leave us a rating or review on whatever podcatcher you are enjoying the show through, be it Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or whatever indie podcatcher app you're using. If you would like more content from us, you can sign up for bonus content, bonus episodes specifically. We have now enabled bonus episodes through both Apple and Spotify. For $4.99 a month, you will get at least one bonus episode a month. These are not structured exactly the same as a normal episode. They tend to be reviews of new movies. We are about to cover 28 years later, The Bone Temple,

• 1:34:04Chris Winterbauer?

  and we last covered Avatar: Fire and Ash in December. If you would like even more content from us, you can sign up for our Patreon. Head to www.patreon.com/whatwentwrongpodcast. Again, at that $5 tier, you get all the bonus episodes. But via Patreon, you also get an ad-free feed. Or for $50, you can get a special Florence Pugh Victory Project shout out like one of these.

• 1:34:28Lizzie Bassett?

  Adrian Pangkaria, Angeline Renee Cook, Ben Schendleman, Blaze Ambrose, Brian Donahue, Brittany Morris, Brooke, Cameron Smith, C. Grace B., Chris Leal, Chris Zaka, David Friskelanti, D.B. Smith, Darren and Dale Conkling, Don Scheible, Ellen Singleton, Msodia, Evan Downey, Felicia G., Film It Yourself.

• 1:35:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Frankenstein, Galen and Miguel, the Broken Glass Kids, Grace Potter, Half Greyhound, James McAvoy, Jared, pronounced Huggin', Jason Frankel, J.J. Rapido, Jory Hillpiper, Jose, Emiliano Salto del Giorgio, Karina Kanaba, Kate Ellington, Kathleen Olson, Amy Elgashlager McCoy, Lena LJ, Lydia Howes, Mariposa's Humans, Matthew Jacobson, Michael McGrath, Nate the Knife, Nathan Centeno, Rosemary Southward,

• 1:35:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Roel Juh, Sadie, Just Sadie, Scott Oshida, Somen Chinani, Steve Winterbauer, Suzanne Johnson, The Provost Family, the O's, they still sound like O's. There is no spoon. We love you guys.

• 1:36:03Chris Winterbauer?

  All right, Lizzie, thank you for those shout outs. Next week, we're headed to a very special place by way of the small screen. In honor of our semi-annual, I suppose, return to television, to the consternation of some of our more diehard fans, we are covering the Game of Thrones pilot. We're heading to Westeros, because, guys, it's just such a dumpster fire, we have to cover it. Lizzie, I'm not sure how familiar you are with Game of Thrones and the process through which it came to the screen, but it is a hell of a crucible, and I am excited to dive in with you.

• 1:36:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Can't wait. All right, we'll see you next week, north of the Wall.

• 1:36:44Speaker 08

  Go to patreon.com/whatwentwrongpodcast to support What Went Wrong and check out our website at whatwentwrongpod.com. What Went Wrong is a Sad Boom podcast, presented by Lizzie Bassett and Chris Winterbauer. Post-production and music by David Bowman. This episode was researched by Laura Woods and edited by Karen Krupso.