WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: Quarterfinals

In the penultimate episode of this World Cup bonus series, Trevor and Joe break down a dramatic quarterfinal round, from England's tense victory over Norway to the bizarre "Cable of God" skycam controversy that had everyone talking. Along the way, they debate the nuances of the World Cup draw, what truly makes a football team great, and look ahead to the semifinals. Plus, Joe-stradamus returns with bold predictions, backing Argentina to reach the final and Spain to overcome France in a clash of contrasting styles.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Trevor Noah?

  This episode is brought to you by Verizon. As an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026, Verizon is bringing once in a lifetime experiences to their customers. Free tickets to matches, pitch side access during gameplay, and meet and greet with soccer legends. If you're not with Verizon, no sweat. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their offers for new customers. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon.

• 0:35Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now with Trevor Noah. Well, welcome to it. The final week of the World Cup. And what feels like the final week of our lives. I have to say, this is probably my least favorite part of the World Cup.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  It's my least, yeah, you know, when you're turning towards the end, I already, I don't know that you're feeling the same thing, but I'm having the blues. Like, you know, when you go on vacation?

• 0:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  And then it's about to end like two days away. And you're like, ah, now I have to go back to my normal work day. I have to go back to the plantation.

• 1:06Trevor Noah?

  It's just like fading away from all the joy, fading away. I almost wish they had a, like a come down routine from the World Cup. They should have the World Cup. And then what they should do is they should replay or reinvent some of the matches that we didn't get to see. Just to let us, you know what I mean?

• 1:24Speaker 01

  You don't want to quit cold turkey.

• 1:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, we can't.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Like methadone.

• 1:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  But for the World Cup.

• 1:28Trevor Noah?

  I mean, when you put it that way, yeah, I'll accept it because I am addicted. But yeah, like I wish, I wish they just had like a, you know, let's, let's have a few other games. Could we see Brazil versus Spain, maybe?

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:40Trevor Noah?

  Could we see Argentina?

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Lost takes, but still.

• 1:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, just like, just like, you know, you know, for, for fun, for fun. They can play for Haaland's raccoon.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  No, I'll tell you one thing, that Monday, next Monday is going to be rough.

• 1:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it will be, man.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Next Monday is going to be rough because you're going to be looking back like, oh my God. There are people who are going like, we can't wait for next Monday. They're probably spouses who are like, we can't wait for next Monday.

• 2:02Trevor Noah?

  Spouses and family members.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04Trevor Noah?

  Everyone in the house.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:05Trevor Noah?

  Who didn't have access to the TV.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:07Trevor Noah?

  Is now excited.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Who didn't have access to their own family member who is addicted, who has been thinking Haaland, Messi, Kane. Mbappe, now they can finally give the kids attention, they can finally, yeah.

• 2:18Trevor Noah?

  I mean, this is why, um, this is why Infantino is proposing sixty four, expanding the World Cup. I feel like, I feel like Infantino, his, his end goal, his end goal is to expand the World Cup to the point where it's just the whole year.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  No, I think to expand it to the point where it's the World Cup.

• 2:36Trevor Noah?

  Where every nation competes.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yes, like literally, cause he, he knows, and I think I told you this before. Infantino is both, you could say, corrupt and evil in a very cartoonish way, like in a very Dr. Evil kind of way.

• 2:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  But he knows he has that in the chokehold. He knows once the ball is kicked, like you can complain and moan and once the ball is kicked.

• 2:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I think to call him a villain is too, is to simplify it too much. I don't think Infantino's a villain. I think he's just in charge of a thing that we love more than anything.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:07Trevor Noah?

  And just like any organization, e- especially like a multinational organization, there's elements of it that we'll disagree with.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:14Trevor Noah?

  But who of us can deny the expanded format was better for the fans, was better for the World Cup and was better for the world?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  I'll give it up for him, we'll give it up. The reason I call him a villain is because he's using this thing that we love, like Dr. Evil. He's using it to achieve his dreams of global domination. That's what Infantino's doing. And the thing is, every once in a while, he gets proven right, like you can't argue. We, we complained bitterly about the expansion, remember?

• 3:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, a lot of people did.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Africans maybe not as smart, maybe the smaller nations not as much, cause we're like, oh, this is our chance to get in. But the bigger countries really wind, and then look what happened. He has been proven right again.

• 3:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I think.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Infantino has gone and done it again.

• 3:55Trevor Noah?

  If it's, if it's expanded to sixty four nations, I think it would be, um, there would be no third place.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:02Trevor Noah?

  It would just be, we'd just go straight into knockouts. It would be more efficient, actually, but there would just like be more games.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  That's what, but that's, that's the thing, that's why, that's why, that's why I'm calling him evil and corrupt in a cartoonish way.

• 4:13Trevor Noah?

  Okay, but isn't, isn't this, okay, but wait, let's, let's, let's, let's talk about this for a second.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:18Trevor Noah?

  Isn't this what we always argue about? Let's take it out of football.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:21Trevor Noah?

  Right? The thing we'll often argue about in society. We'll say, we want to try and make things more accessible.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:29Trevor Noah?

  We're like, you know, why aren't there more grocery stores in poor neighborhoods?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:33Trevor Noah?

  And why don't we give poor children access and blah, blah, blah. Now, right, this is a thing that we, that we say.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  No, something just come in my mind. Go, go on. No, because when you talked about uh more access to food in poor neighborhoods. I started thinking of Uganda and Kenya and Tanzania. And I'm like, oh, my God, these are like food deserts, but football.

• 4:50Trevor Noah?

  These are football.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Deserts, yes. And Infantino is like, I'm trying to bring.

• 4:53Trevor Noah?

  No, so. And what we, what we'll always argue in societies, we'll say, we've got to bring it. Now, a lot of people will say, that's charity, that's, well, come on, let the. But economists who often step into the fray will say the same thing. We are neglecting X amount of dollars or euros or whatever currency you want to use. They'll always say, by neglecting these markets.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:15Trevor Noah?

  By underserving them.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:17Trevor Noah?

  By not providing them the services they need, by not making sure that they have trees and parks and all that. They will show you a dollar amount that you're losing.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  I like how you've taken it completely out of football.

• 5:27Trevor Noah?

  But think about it. They'll show you a dollar amount. So they'll show you how much uh money traffic is costing you.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Okay, yes.

• 5:32Trevor Noah?

  They'll show you how much money bad healthcare is costing you. They'll show you how much money not having maternity leave is costing you. They'll show, do you get what I'm saying?

• 5:39Speaker 01

  No, I hear you.

• 5:39Trevor Noah?

  So if you can, if you can boil access, equitable access down to money as well. The upside, there should be an upside.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  There should be, yes.

• 5:48Trevor Noah?

  And I, don't get me wrong, I know I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I go, shouldn't the reward for including.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  And you know, when you said devil's advocate, you're literally playing devil's advocate with Infantino, because. No, but no, but go on, sorry for interrupting, yes.

• 6:01Trevor Noah?

  But think about it. Shouldn't, shouldn't there be a reward for inclusion?

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 6:06Trevor Noah?

  Inclusivity should, there should be a reward.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  There should be. And the thing is, and again, I hate being on your side and I hate being on Infantino's side. But people said the World Cup would be diluted.

• 6:15Trevor Noah?

  Join us, Joe.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Embrace the dark side.

• 6:18Trevor Noah?

  Embrace the dark side.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Accept the hurt. No, here's the thing. People complained and I was among them, but because I've come from a small country. I also saw where Infantino was, how it would benefit me.

• 6:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  But people complained about how this would dilute the World. How this would devalue the greatest tournament in world football.

• 6:37Trevor Noah?

  It hasn't at all.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  And look, the smallest teams give us the greatest games.

• 6:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the greatest storylines as well.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Egypt kept bad, like, Koura's out scoring that goal against Germany. They give us, they give us the moments that make you fall back in love.

• 6:49Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  With football, the romance of it all, yes.

• 6:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the only, the only thing I might disagree with, I, I look, I don't know how I feel about it yet. Because I'm, I'm, you know, recency bias is, is, is obviously in effect right now.

• 7:04Trevor Noah?

  A lot of people have been confused as to why Argentina had a quote unquote easy run. A lot of people have confused as to like why England had a quote unquote easier run, France, et cetera. Well, they're going like, ah, but how are these teams meeting and? So a lot of people don't remember that FIFA changed the way they created their draw for this World Cup.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  The seeding. They seeded them the way seeding tennis, yes.

• 7:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and so what they said was, we're gonna change the format. And so for this World Cup, for World Cup twenty twenty six, the top seeds cannot, the top four seeds cannot meet each other before the semifinal. Now, they could get knocked out.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 7:43Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean? They could get knocked out, like Norway could have knocked out England.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  England, yes. Egypt could have knocked out.

• 7:48Trevor Noah?

  Egypt could have knocked out Argentina, et cetera, et cetera. So it's, it's not about making sure they get to the semifinal. But the, their goal was that the top four seeds wouldn't meet before the semifinal. Now, on one hand, some people can argue what it's done is it's created a World Cup where the big teams bump into the small teams more frequently, which creates better games for.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Which is the dream for the small teams.

• 8:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, as, as you've seen, like, the team from Cape Verde all said, this was our dream. We have, we never imagined this. Right? On the other hand, people say it's ensured their path to the final because they don't have to eliminate each other. I think both arguments have merit. You know, because.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  I like how you are literally like the evil angel on Infantino's one shoulder. And then you're the good angel on the other shoulder. You're like giving him props, but then he was, he was also going.

• 8:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I mean, both, both things are true.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  No, I'll say this, ah, cause in tennis, and again, I know people struggle with the seeding system. So in tennis, archers. And Sina.

• 8:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Will either meet in the final or they won't meet at all. That's how they make it. They go like the top two seeds don't get to meet till the final.

• 8:55Trevor Noah?

  Because it's so. Because it'll spoil the game?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  No, no, it's, they're trying to go like, if they, if everything happens the way it's, if, if it's in our dream scenario, the top, the final should be the top two. But then remember, the top two have to meet the top three and top four.

• 9:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  They go meeting like slightly stronger opposition as they go on. And that's how it should be. And so for me, I understand people. Because people will go like, oh, but Spain topped their group, but then they end up facing, oh. FIFA is not rewarding you for just last year's performance. It's rewarding you for over five years of performance. That's how they see it. So Argentina has almost won every competition they have been in.

• 9:31Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Two Copa Americas, the World Cup, they're the top seed in South America. They shouldn't be meeting France at any point. France has been playing so well in Europe for the past five years.

• 9:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  They shouldn't be meeting Argentina. So you're being rewarded.

• 9:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  For the good work you've put in over a considerable number of years. And for me, I'm all for it.

• 9:50Trevor Noah?

  But don't, don't you think it robs us as the fans maybe?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 9:55Trevor Noah?

  And it robs the smaller teams of the opportunity to pull a Croatia in the semifinal, to pull a, um, who else? Morocco in the semifinal?

• 10:03Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't.

• 10:04Trevor Noah?

  To pull a, you know what I mean?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't.

• 10:05Trevor Noah?

  You don't think it does?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  No, because for me, if the small teams overperform and one or two of the big teams underperform, then the top seeds will meet somewhere. Does that make sense? They'll meet before, for me, the way I look at it, because you're talking about the top four, but remember, England, Brazil, Portugal, those teams will meet at some point. They're, they're not the top four for us.

• 10:24Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  But they're top heavyweights.

• 10:25Trevor Noah?

  I hear what you're saying.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  So Argentina.

• 10:26Trevor Noah?

  No, I hear what you're saying.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  I don't even think they needed this because Argentina in twenty eighteen, remember, they messed up and they lost their game against Croatia.

• 10:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  And what was their reward? Instead of taking the easier path that Croatia ended up taking, they end up meeting France.

• 10:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  In the next round.

• 10:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  And Mbappe knocked them out. So for me, it works. For me, I like the seeding. It works in basketball. The number, the top seed in basketball in the playoffs meets number eight. The Golden State Warriors are not going to meet the Lakers.

• 10:52Trevor Noah?

  Well, yeah, I guess, I guess it also sets up. The idea behind it is, and and I think we forget this sometimes. The idea is also that we don't end up with a lopsided end of a tournament.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yes, thank you, yes. Where Kurosawa is playing Kepva.

• 11:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't, not even Kurosawa Cape. Kurosawa Cape would actually be a great game.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:09Trevor Noah?

  I think you you actually, what they don't want is it to be Kurosawa versus Germany somehow.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Thank you, yes, yes, yes.

• 11:15Trevor Noah?

  Or Kurosawa versus France.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Versus, yes. You know. Where everyone comes in going like, oh, this is yes.

• 11:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you know, where that where that final game.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 11:21Trevor Noah?

  Doesn't see, like, people go, you know, we always say this, even in football, we'll be like, that was the real final.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, the final before the final.

• 11:28Trevor Noah?

  It was the final before the final.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  You don't want, you don't want that in the round of sixteen.

• 11:31Trevor Noah?

  The big teams in the Champions League will meet in the quarters or the semis.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:34Trevor Noah?

  And then on the other side, there's like a random team that's coming in from, you know.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Gordo Glim.

• 11:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 11:41Trevor Noah?

  Good for them, but I would argue on a business side and as a spectacle, yeah. People are less inclined to watch because everyone expects one team to win. And if they don't, people are just like, ah, what happened?

• 11:52Speaker 01

  People hate to admit it, not sports fans, because we are very, we tend to be very realistic. People want George Foreman, Muhammad Ali.

• 11:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's what they're trying to make.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Heavyweights just throwing haymakers at each other.

• 12:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  They don't want like George Foreman versus Joe Opio. And then Joe Opio is knocked out in the first.

• 12:09Trevor Noah?

  What a fight. How long do you think it could last?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I think it would last five seconds by running around the ring, running as fast as possible. And then I would last a bit longer if I just ran out of the ring and then out of the stadium and then just continued on my way home back. Back home to Uganda.

• 12:24Trevor Noah?

  Um, let's talk about some of the big games that we saw leading up to this. Um, England, Norway.

• 12:31Trevor Noah?

  Uh, you're, you're, you know, I, I, can I tell you why I feel bad for you?

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 12:36Trevor Noah?

  You predicted Norway would win.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Two one.

• 12:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:40Trevor Noah?

  And I sometimes think predictions.

• 12:46Trevor Noah?

  Can be undone by random acts of God.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Yes, you're right.

• 12:53Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  I was on a good run as well, by the way.

• 12:55Trevor Noah?

  You were on a great run.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  I was on a good run, just predicting scorelines.

• 12:57Trevor Noah?

  No, you were on a good run.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Brazil, Japan, two one.

• 12:59Trevor Noah?

  You were on a good run.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, just going on Brazil, Norway, two one.

• 13:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, England, Norway, so um.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Morocco, France, two nil. I was on a good run and then the cable happened.

• 13:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the, well, okay, no, but let's talk about this. Okay, so let's break the game down. There are a few storylines from the England Norway game that I think have still got people talking. One is the the cable.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:16Trevor Noah?

  The, you know, the.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  The sky come.

• 13:18Trevor Noah?

  The, yeah, the mysterious cable that did or did not happen.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  You called it the cable of God.

• 13:22Trevor Noah?

  I called it the cable of God, that's what it is, you know. Um, we've got the uh Haaland-Soloth incident.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 13:28Trevor Noah?

  I think those are like the big ones in the game.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:31Trevor Noah?

  Right, um, and then.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  My first instinct, I would say.

• 13:35Trevor Noah?

  The, I don't think the penalty call was like a.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  No, no, no, that was a.

• 13:38Trevor Noah?

  Can you think of any other issue? There weren't, there weren't any issues, right?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  I think, I think the only other thing we could talk about was Noyland, who was incredible in their game against Brazil. Actually not pushing that ball away and gifting uh Birmingham an easy winning goal.

• 13:51Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, but that, but that's a tactical thing. So, okay, let's start, let's, let's, let's do it in sequence then. Let's start by first talking about uh the, the, the Soloth incident, because that's the.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:01Trevor Noah?

  You see, this is, so this is the thing, that I, that I, I wish more fans would be honest about, right? More fans would be honest about.

• 14:10Trevor Noah?

  When it's Egypt, Argentina, right? It's easier to blame the refs for the results.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 14:18Trevor Noah?

  And in my opinion, the refs made many decisions that I think could have gone another way on another day against Argentina.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  I think.

• 14:26Trevor Noah?

  No, just like, just like yellow cards and like harsher penalty. No, no, no, there were, there were a few. No, no, that's my opinion, as I'm saying, you can disagree.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. I can't thi- I can't think of a single decision that the ref made wrong.

• 14:35Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no, I know, no, wait, that's.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Okay, we won't really get that, okay.

• 14:39Trevor Noah?

  We don't have to litigate it, I'm just saying.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  It's easier for fans.

• 14:41Trevor Noah?

  But I'm saying it's easier for fans to focus on those things than it is for them to focus on the moment where they failed to take a game, okay? So for me, Egypt, Argentina, it's the moment when Egypt gets the ball, the score's two, two.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Mm.

• 14:57Trevor Noah?

  I think it's the ninetieth minute.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  You're gonna talk, yeah, yeah.

• 15:00Trevor Noah?

  In added time.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  It pisses you off, yes.

• 15:01Trevor Noah?

  Egypt goes on a break.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Yes. I think it was two.

• 15:04Trevor Noah?

  The ball gets passed to Salah.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Mm.

• 15:06Trevor Noah?

  And very quickly, it becomes three versus two, or even four versus two. And then Mamouche.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Out of nowhere.

• 15:14Trevor Noah?

  Comes running from behind Salah.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:17Trevor Noah?

  And takes the ball off of his feet.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  And Salah, by the way, had led two incredible breakaways.

• 15:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Which had ended in goals, one of them.

• 15:27Trevor Noah?

  Salah's also, the guy's got the record for goals and assists in one season in the Premier League. You've seen what he can do assist wise already in this game. He takes the ball off of Salah's feet, also compresses the field and what I mean by that is.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:41Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know this when you're playing football, when you, when you're on a counter attack, the best thing you can do is spread out your players.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Space out, yeah.

• 15:47Trevor Noah?

  Because now you, the, the, the team.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  The opponent, yes.

• 15:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the team with inferior players have to think about who they're gonna cover. Now what's happening is, the attack is compressed because Mamouche is literally on Salah, so one defender can mark both men. He takes the ball, I think it was Paredes who was, who was running back on Argentina.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Incredible block by Paredes as well.

• 16:07Trevor Noah?

  I don't think it's an incredible block.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  No, no, Mamouche made it easy.

• 16:10Trevor Noah?

  I don't think it's an incredible block, I think it's a bad pass and I think it's a pass from a player who doesn't pass regularly. And I go, why would you take the ball from Salah? He could have curved his run, he could have made it, created another outlet.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 16:21Trevor Noah?

  And I'm telling you Salah would have found him. So for me, I focus on that moment. I go, that's for me, that's what. You, you know why? Because fans often go backwards in time as if, um, as if calls are cumulative, but they're not.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  How do you then compare that? How do you compare that with Soloth?

• 16:41Trevor Noah?

  No, so listen, do you get what I'm saying?

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get the Mamouche one, yes.

• 16:44Trevor Noah?

  No, no, but what I'm saying, fans will do in football, oftentimes they'll go, if we were awarded that penalty, then the score would have been four nil, then I'm like, no, that, but that's not how games work. So Egypt was up one nil, right? They go two nil up.

• 17:00Trevor Noah?

  The, the goal gets taken away, then they still come back immediately and score, now it's two nil. Now someone go, then it would be three nil. That's not how games actually work, right? It's like, it's a linear timeline.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  It's a butterfly effect. One thing can completely change how it is.

• 17:12Trevor Noah?

  So, so it's a linear thing, right? So now when we come to the England Norway game, I know a lot of fans would love to look at the cable incident as the incident that robs Norway of their opportunity to go through to the semifinals. But for me, the the moment where Norway loses their game is the moment where Soloth is on a break.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Two V one.

• 17:32Trevor Noah?

  With Erling Haaland, two V one.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Against stones, yes.

• 17:35Trevor Noah?

  And and we've got to be clear about what kind of two V one. There's a two V one where you have like men right behind you, someone on your shoulder, pushing you, pushing you and no. Then there's a two V one where you're unencumbered, completely free to look up, to play the game, to make decisions.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Backpedaling furiously.

• 17:53Trevor Noah?

  Backpedaling, yeah. John Stones, who's not the fastest defender. And Soloth, not only like stumbles and doesn't look up and doesn't pass to Haaland. He also just doesn't make a decision himself. Like, it's one of the strangest moments I've ever seen.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Tookie, tookie, sweet time as well.

• 18:12Trevor Noah?

  And everyone has a different opinion. Some people go, it's because he's jealous of Haaland. You know, they've played clips of him saying, I've got more experience than him, whatever. People are, people are saying like, oh, that's why you shouldn't have a striker up top, because a striker doesn't look up, because they think they are the person who has to finish it. Some people are saying, yeah, people have all, look, the bottom line is for me, when that happened, in the same way.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  You called it out. I remember, yes.

• 18:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, in the same way, in the same way when Bruno Grimaire doesn't score his goal.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And then Rick misses the one on one.

• 18:41Trevor Noah?

  And the same when Endric misses. I blame those moments for the losing.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I'll say the funny thing about that moment is we watched it and you, because sort of got murdered online, obviously. And it got murdered in the press. But the thing is, you immediately went like, this is why you don't, you went like, he has tunnel vision.

• 18:59Trevor Noah?

  I, I, I, I'll be.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  He didn't even know that the pass was on.

• 19:02Trevor Noah?

  I'll be honest with you.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  The pass is rarely on for me.

• 19:04Trevor Noah?

  I'll be honest with you.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  He's not at the receiving end of the pass.

• 19:06Trevor Noah?

  I don't get the coach's decision. I don't understand why he's playing Soloth there and not Oscar Bob.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  The one thing is, it went from potentially two nil.

• 19:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's my point though.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Going into half time.

• 19:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  To one one.

• 19:19Trevor Noah?

  That's my point.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Changes the tactical talk as a coach that you're going to give to your players.

• 19:23Trevor Noah?

  It also changes the tactics of the team.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:27Trevor Noah?

  Right? If we're up one nil, we're in a skittish back and forth. It's a skirmish, but like, it it's not comfortable, because at any moment you can get back and you're in the game. When we're two nil up, we can sit back differently, we can counter attack differently. And you have more pressure on you as the opposing team, because.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  You need to look for.

• 19:45Trevor Noah?

  You need to look for two goals, not one goal. You know what I mean? So, so, so that, that pressure creates something. And then the goal comes from a moment that I'm like, it's funny. I, so you must see, I have so many English friends. Who have completely blown up my phone, hating me.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 20:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, what a, what a bad take, Trevor. There, there was no ball that hit a cable.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  See, that's why I can talk, that's why I can talk trash about England, I have no English friends. So, no, you are very vocal though about it, you are very vocal. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very interested in why. Cause you pointed it out even during the broadcast after the live stream. Uh, I'm interested to hear what you really think should and could have happened. Cause the Norwegian players went and told.

• 20:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  The ref, so what do you think could have happened? Cause he didn't, he didn't stop the game. And the goal went in, so what do you think would have happened? Cause normally you stop the game when the ball hits an external object.

• 20:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and, and it's happened before, by the way. This is not the first time a ball has hit the sky cam or the cables.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:45Trevor Noah?

  So it's happened before, you just stopped the game.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Hmm. Okay, so no, but they didn't stop it. And the Norwegian, rather the coach and shoulder up, ran up to him. Do you think there's still recourse for him to cancel the goal?

• 20:58Trevor Noah?

  No, but I, but this is what.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Or is it too late now?

• 21:00Trevor Noah?

  Okay, but this is what I don't understand. All right, so there's a few things. FIFA comes out and says the sensor in the ball was not triggered.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 21:07Trevor Noah?

  Okay, now I'm going like, guys, okay.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  That sensor's been having a moment.

• 21:10Trevor Noah?

  Yo, man. Here's the most important thing for me. Why are we bringing a new technology to a World Cup? If you look at every other technology, right? If you look at every other technology in football. When we're trialing a new rule or a new technology. They trial that for four years in other leagues.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Smaller competitions, the under twenties, women's, yes, you're right, yes.

• 21:34Trevor Noah?

  They go, let's take this to the low stakes, low level tournaments. Before we get to the highest levels of the men's and women's games. Before that, let's try it in like under sixteens, under twenties. They try new offside rules, they try new, um, like VAR. They tested VAR for a long time in different leagues, in different ways. In different subsections of, of a league, by the way. They'd say like, okay, for this competition, we're gonna be using VAR, but we won't expand it fully.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  In different formats as well, for Salah.

• 22:02Trevor Noah?

  Exactly, exactly. So my thing is, why, oh why? Are we bringing a new chip? That I don't know of being used in any major league?

• 22:14Trevor Noah?

  Why are we bringing that to a World Cup where the stakes are so high? And there are so few games for you to remedy the situation? That's that's my first issue.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Okay, I guess my question then would be. Again, you've said a ball has seen the sky come before, right?

• 22:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  But it was still unprecedented at this level. The ball hitting the sky come. Like, you know, when the Croatian player.

• 22:35Trevor Noah?

  I think it happened in the Premier League.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yes, but I'm saying at this level.

• 22:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, okay, okay, yeah.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  So when you talk about, let's say, the hair follicle. You know, the Croatian player, did the ball touch his hair or not? That we can understand.

• 22:45Trevor Noah?

  Right, right. It's not unprecedented.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  So when the ball went up, I think what happened, and again, I might be wrong. When the when Nolan kicks that ball high.

• 22:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  I think the ref. Naturally, didn't track the ball all the way.

• 22:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  His eyes were focused on the players jostling for, because the ball is falling.

• 23:01Trevor Noah?

  That makes sense, yes, yes.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  So he didn't see.

• 23:02Trevor Noah?

  Because his, because the refs.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Because the ref is.

• 23:04Trevor Noah?

  The refs is, the ref's job is not to look at the ball.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:06Trevor Noah?

  The ref's job is to watch the players.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Even when they're taking corner kicks.

• 23:09Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Refs are not watching the flight of the ball.

• 23:11Trevor Noah?

  No, no.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  They are watching the players.

• 23:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  So I see why he missed it. But then, as you're asking, why didn't, why didn't, they are supposed to come in for clear and obvious errors.

• 23:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Why didn't they come in? And if they did come in, how come? Yes.

• 23:23Trevor Noah?

  They relied apparently on the, what do they call it, snico?

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yes, snico, yes.

• 23:27Trevor Noah?

  Okay, snico in the ball.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:30Trevor Noah?

  Now, some people are saying there's a possibility that. Because the the pitch has the four antennas around it for the ball.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:37Trevor Noah?

  There's a possibility, just like microphones like we're using now, or you know, when you're on a TV show, you have a mic pack.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:43Trevor Noah?

  There are, there are um antennas situated around every single soundstage.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:49Trevor Noah?

  And those antennas are responsible for picking up. So here it's a wired mic, so it's not the same, but there's an antenna. And if that mic, mic pack.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:56Trevor Noah?

  Sometimes goes above.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 23:59Trevor Noah?

  That's the thing that people forget, above.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 24:01Trevor Noah?

  Because when you're in, in line with the thing. You find your frequencies to find, but sometimes when you go above, that's the issue. I don't know that they've tested that technology way up in the air.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Cause it's unprecedented.

• 24:15Trevor Noah?

  Because the antenna are down on the ground.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause everything happens on the ground mostly, unless you're playing England.

• 24:19Trevor Noah?

  Cause remember, they did.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  The ball is always in there.

• 24:21Trevor Noah?

  They did it, that's funny, but they did it, cause they did this for VAR, I mean for for offside.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm.

• 24:25Trevor Noah?

  And offside is generally about a ball kicked on the ground and where a person is in relation to the kicking.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Okay, quick question. Do you think if FIFA had come out and gone like, guys, our bad, our mistake, instead of trying to gaslight the football-loving public, do you think that would have been better?

• 24:39Trevor Noah?

  Yes, I think it would be better.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Instead of going like, oh, there was no.

• 24:41Trevor Noah?

  I think it would be better. So I I I think this.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, but as as we said, corrupt evil villains never come out and say my bad.

• 24:47Trevor Noah?

  For everything in life. I think, what's that old saying? The the cover up is always worse than the crime.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Worse than the crime, yes.

• 24:52Trevor Noah?

  Right? I think it's the same thing that happened with governments around Covid. If it, if governments were more honest.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Taking this thing out of football too many times today.

• 25:01Trevor Noah?

  But I think, that's why I love football. The reason I love football is, for me, football is the ultimate.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, a reflection of life.

• 25:09Trevor Noah?

  Yes, it's a reflection of life. It's like how we live it, how we explain. I I can learn all my lessons on a football pitch for life.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 25:15Trevor Noah?

  And so for me, it's the same thing that happened during Covid, it's the same thing that happens during major disasters, during an economic crisis, whatever. The government thinks that they are protecting a system by obscuring or lying to the people about what's actually happening or withholding, right? But then what happens is the people then go, there's something I noticed here. There's something strange.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  My eyes, yes.

• 25:39Trevor Noah?

  My eyes are not matching up with the reality. And then the government says to you, no, don't worry about that, don't worry about that, don't. And and that thing builds up steam, builds up steam, builds up steam. And then what happens?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Conspiracy thrive, yeah.

• 25:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but at some point, some some subset of conspiracies are shown to be true.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:56Trevor Noah?

  And then and then what happens? You've now created.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Yes, you've lost all credibility.

• 26:00Trevor Noah?

  For me, it's better if FIFA just says, hey, y'all, the sensor didn't go off.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:05Trevor Noah?

  But upon further review, we've seen, it does look like the ball touched, the referee didn't see it.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:10Trevor Noah?

  And in every game, if a referee doesn't see it, if no one catches it, sorry, guys, we play on.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  But that's the thing.

• 26:18Trevor Noah?

  Because there's many matches where we can go, we, Joe, we can go back and literally re-watch every micro moment of it. Messi, for instance, uh, who were they playing recently? Messi.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  You're playing which one? Cape Verde?

• 26:32Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Egypt, Switzerland.

• 26:33Trevor Noah?

  Egypt, I think it was. No, Switzerland. Messi gets a foul by the box.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:38Trevor Noah?

  No one touched him.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:39Trevor Noah?

  Like, or rather, it wasn't, he didn't get fouled.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  No, no, I think it was Cape Verde. The player won the ball, yes. The player won the ball.

• 26:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but Messi gets the foul by the box.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  The player won the ball, yes.

• 26:48Trevor Noah?

  Yes. No, we could go back and go, that wasn't a foul.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:51Trevor Noah?

  But, but that's not, the, the point of sport is not to be one hundred percent accurate. It is to be fair.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 26:57Trevor Noah?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 26:58Speaker 01

  No, I think.

• 26:58Trevor Noah?

  Even, even when it comes to like marking.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 27:00Trevor Noah?

  Who was holding whom?

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 27:02Trevor Noah?

  Whose shirt was being tucked?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Was Elliot, should Elliot have been, yeah, did Elliot dive? Was Haran's push enough? I'll say this, it's, I agree with you in a sense that it was very Orwellian. Like when you, you know, when you talk about nineteen eighty four, don't believe your, your lying eyes. It was very Orwellian in that way. Cause everyone was like, oh, but we can't see the ball. Unless you're English, cause the English became blind. Many English fans became like partially blind when it came to that.

• 27:27Trevor Noah?

  Which I would argue is your job.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, you know, as a fan, it is. As a fan, when the referee makes a decision that's on your side.

• 27:33Trevor Noah?

  I mean, that was the right decision.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Amazing. When the referee, yeah, so I get where the English are coming from.

• 27:37Trevor Noah?

  The last thing you want to be as a fan.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:39Trevor Noah?

  Is Ronaldo putting up their hand when their own teammates are offside.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  No, no, you'd never want to be.

• 27:49Trevor Noah?

  All right, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor for today's episode. That's Verizon. Now, we all know the FIFA World Cup is one of the biggest events on the planet, right? Everybody wants in, which means scoring tickets is hard, like really, really hard. Well, there's good news. Verizon is providing their customers with unmatched access. They've given away thousands of free tickets and even given their customers pitch side access during matches. If you're not a Verizon customer, I've got good news. Right now, more people than ever can get a better deal at Verizon.

• 28:31Trevor Noah?

  If you have a bill with AT and T or T-Mobile, all you gotta do is bring it in. And if you have a bill with Xfinity or Spectrum, bring that in too. And Verizon will give you a better deal. Plus, you could get bucket list experiences like free tickets to the FIFA World Cup.

• 28:51Trevor Noah?

  Must provide a very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Also, for me, the thing, the biggest talking point from that game, and again, it's for me, it's Jude betting, amen.

• 29:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, amen Jude. Hey Jude.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  I love big players who show up in big hypershock moments.

• 29:20Trevor Noah?

  You've always said this, yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  I love, I'm such a huge lover of the game. And when I see, so I'll say this, for me, when I look at the World Cup, great players always impose their personality on a World Cup. Great players always bend the World Cup to their will. The greatest players actually don't just grace the World Cup, they don't just turn up, they decorate the greatest tournament of the world.

• 29:43Trevor Noah?

  Yes, Dan 98, Ronaldo 2002 or 9.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  You can go back, you can go back to 1934, 1930s, when, let's say fascist Italy hosted the World Cup 1934. Obviously, Benito Mussolini tried to hijack the World Cup. No one remembers Benito Mussolini. Everyone remembers Giuseppe Meazza, because he helped Italy win. That's why AC Milan and Inter Milan named their stadium after him.

• 30:05Trevor Noah?

  No, I didn't know that.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, Giuseppe Meazza, when you go back to 1954, Frank Puskas and that dazzling Hungarian team. That's why the Puskas Award for the best goal every football season is named after Frank Puskas. 1958, 17-year-old Pele scores two goals in a final and a legend is born. Every World Cup, 62 Chilean horse, Pele gets injured, he's the hope for Brazil, guess who steps up? Garrincha steps up. Every World Cup, a great player, every World Cup must be defined by a great player. And I don't want to hear any excuses, because I don't care, the football world doesn't care. We don't want to hear, oh, I got double marked and triple marked, all the oppo men were kicking the crap out of me.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  No, great players always find a way to exploit their God-given gifts to actually define the greatest tournament in the world. And if you look at what Jude has been doing.

• 31:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Dragged England past Mexico, single-handedly.

• 31:03Trevor Noah?

  He has.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Played high altitude, a few days later, played against Norway, didn't show anything about altitude sickness.

• 31:11Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Again, imposed his will, in Uganda we call it. We we call it, you know, taking your balls out and slapping them on the table when the pressure is on.

• 31:21Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:22Trevor Noah?

  What's happening in Ugandan boardrooms? What is happening in Ugandan boardrooms that this has become a saying?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Turns up and goes, that's what great players do, Trevor. And for me, that's the one thing.

• 31:33Trevor Noah?

  I'd love to be the person taking minutes at that meeting.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  And then he took out his balls.

• 31:37Trevor Noah?

  Ball ball slap occurred once again.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  No, think nineteen nineteen nineteen eighty six, Diego Amando Maradona.

• 31:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, you're right.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Said the better. For me, that's what I want. Look at Lionel Messi this World Cup. Look at Lionel Messi the World Cup before. Look at Aran Nine and Zinedine Zidane in nineteen ninety eight.

• 31:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I want, because you know, always remember the player, you, Roberto Baggio, nineteen ninety four. You remember Roberto Baggio.

• 32:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  You remember Romario. I want players showing up. And that's one thing you said you've loved about this World Cup. At least all the greats.

• 32:08Trevor Noah?

  All the greats have shown up.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  To be showing up. And so for me, the way you go, actually, you you love taking things out of football, let's take it out of football. Think of cinema. You're not going to be considered a great on the big screen unless you have at least one career performance. Daniel Dele will show me something. Leo DiCaprio, show me something. Robert De Niro, Mary Streep, ah, Al Pacino, show me something. There has to be a performance of yours that defines your legacy.

• 32:35Trevor Noah?

  And funny enough, to to keep it in cinema, in many ways, that's how we define the greats, is that regardless of what movie they're in.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:44Trevor Noah?

  To your point, they bend it to their will.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:47Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Make us dream.

• 32:48Trevor Noah?

  They they they they take a role or a moment.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  However small.

• 32:52Trevor Noah?

  However small, and they go, wow.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:55Trevor Noah?

  You know, like, you're watching it and you're like, huh, man, when they come on screen.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:59Trevor Noah?

  You know?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  That's what I want. And so for me, that's why, and I keep saying this, and we disagree on this. You think Harry Kane is a great striker. I think he's an okay striker. I think he's a good striker. I think he's okay-ish. And I'm not talking about club. Let let let.

• 33:12Trevor Noah?

  So I've been, I've been, actually, I've been thinking about this. I've been thinking about this. No, no, no, no, here's a way.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  He's incredible in club.

• 33:17Trevor Noah?

  I've thought of a way for us to bridge this gap. Maybe, maybe there's a, there's a, there's an extra definition we need to think about in football. Maybe sometimes we need to define a player's greatness for their position. And then sometimes we need to define a player's greatness for their ability to be a, a um.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Clutch player?

• 33:37Trevor Noah?

  More than just a clutch player, but rather like a, like an architect, somebody, somebody who can design and create something, somebody who can make things happen. They're the catalyst is a, is a good way to put it, right?

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:48Trevor Noah?

  Because I can think of many players, you know, like Jude Bellingham. Is he the best midfielder?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  No, not even close.

• 33:57Trevor Noah?

  I don't think he is.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Pedri, Vitinha, Yawoneves.

• 33:59Trevor Noah?

  Many people will come with many names, but in this World Cup, there's no Pedri, there's no Vitinho, there's no, uh, uh, Jean Neves.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  He has taken his balls and slapped them.

• 34:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but my, but my point is.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  On the World Cup table, that's what you'd be thinking as that, yes.

• 34:15Trevor Noah?

  He has not done that as a great midfielder though.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  No, no, no. He has done it in his role. I don't think of him as a good midfielder.

• 34:21Trevor Noah?

  But what I'm saying is he's done it as a player.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:23Trevor Noah?

  Because if you look at where Jude Bellingham's been on the pitch, if you look at how he's gotten his goals, if you, all of those moments are agnostic to the position he plays.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  But that's true, but that's what I'm saying about.

• 34:33Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, that's what I'm agreeing with you.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  I'm saying, you don't have to do it, you, the, the, when I said defining a World Cup, I'm saying you do it as a player. So nineteen eighty-two.

• 34:41Trevor Noah?

  No, but listen, that's what I'm saying.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  Is a goalkeeper.

• 34:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Is a goalkeeper who defined the nineteen eighty-two World Cup alongside Zico and Paolo Rossi. You don't have to, we're saying you have to stand up as a player.

• 34:52Trevor Noah?

  No, but, but listen to, yeah, but this is what I'm saying. So now do you understand? Come back to what I'm saying.

• 34:58Trevor Noah?

  I don't think it takes anything away from Harry Kane's greatness as a striker.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:03Trevor Noah?

  Right? But then, eh, when we talk, like I, I try and do this with my friends all the time. I do it with celebs when we chat. It's sometimes we try and like change our paradigms for how we think of the game, just so that we open up the possibility for more than just one, one category, you know, greatest, who's the great, oh, who's the best of, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sometimes you can say, who is the best defender? And what we mean by that is who is the best player at defending a ball when the opponents are attacking and they, okay, that's the best defender.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:38Trevor Noah?

  But then you could go.

• 35:41Trevor Noah?

  When you are down one nil.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:43Trevor Noah?

  And it is the ninetieth minute.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:45Trevor Noah?

  And you need to get a goal.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:47Trevor Noah?

  Would you rather have Sergio Ramos?

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:50Trevor Noah?

  Or would you rather have Virgil van Dijk?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Mm hmm, mm hmm, I hear you.

• 35:53Trevor Noah?

  Now, I, in my world, there is no world.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:57Trevor Noah?

  Where Sergio Ramos is a better defender than Virgil van Dijk. For me.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 36:00Trevor Noah?

  Football fans can disagree, we always do.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm, mm.

• 36:03Trevor Noah?

  But if you're asking me.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Who do you want to score?

• 36:06Trevor Noah?

  For like, for, for like that thing, someone who's gonna grab the game. And Virgil has had his moments, don't get me wrong. But I'm talking like the extremes.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Who's gonna show up, yes.

• 36:15Trevor Noah?

  I'm talking the extremes, that player, you're like, where did Sergio Ramos come from? Where did he do, how did he do this? How many times has he done this?

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 36:22Trevor Noah?

  For me, that's, that's what I'm talking about. And that, to me, does not diminish another player's position of excellence in any way.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Okay, let me counterpoint, counterpoint, and I hear where you're coming from. For me, Harry Kane has disappeared way too many times in big moments. That's why I have him on fraud watch. He has disappeared, I've given him, I've given him leeway so many times and he keeps disappointing.

• 36:44Trevor Noah?

  Coach Joe, I've given him so much leeway.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Harry Kane, and, and his fans will say, oh, but you won the Golden Boot in twenty eighteen. Yes, but why did he win the Golden Boot? He scored a hat trick against Panama, scored, I think, another two goals against Tunisia. And then he scored the one goal he had scored, I think, in the knockout stages against Colombia. Here's the thing, here's where I struggle with Harry Kane. And people make so many excuses for him. Remember I said, great players?

• 37:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  I don't want to hear your excuses.

• 37:08Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so you want, you, okay, I'm, I'm with you.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Romario.

• 37:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  He didn't go like, oh, no one is serving me, oh, my, no, Romario took the World Cup by the scruff of the neck. Gad Mola took the World Cup by the scruff of the neck. Paolo Rossi took the World Cup by the scruff. Aranine, El Fenomeno, the original, took the World Cup by the scruff of the neck. Miroslav Kroos. He didn't even have the most spectacular club career. Why do we think of him as one of the greats? He took the World Cup by the scruff of the neck, they didn't make excuses. These are pure nines. Now, Harry Kane fans will go like, oh, but you see, he opens up space, hogwash, I'm not interested. Great nines don't open up space. They are not Walmart street, Walmart greeters. Then they will say, oh, you know, Harry Kane. A extra hogwash, my striker shouldn't be defending, I judge my striker purely is he putting the ball in the net.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  And so for me, when I look at Hurricane, this is where I struggle, and I know English fans will go like you're being harsh on him. Club football, he delivers. Week in, week out, Hurricane delivers for his club. I'm talking just international football. Hurricane, we were there in Russia, his first World Cup, twenty eighteen. Hurricane scored six goals in the group, won in the knockouts. Their biggest game against Croatia, what did he do? He went missing. Who scored the goal? Kieran Trippier. He went missing, Croatia came back in that game. I went like, okay, his first World Cup, I'll give him grace. Euro, the next Euros, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, where was Hurricane in the final? Look, sure, scores a goal against Italy, third minute. Hurricane shows us something, Hurricane disappears, Italy comes back, wins.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Next World Cup, twenty twenty two, Hurricane plays well in the group stages, he meets France, disappears the whole game, gets a penalty towards the end, he scores it, gets another penalty to send the game to equalize. What does he do? High pressure moment, he skies it. I go like, okay, now this guy is on real fraud watch. Euro twenty twenty four, that's when I broke, that's when, that's when I gave up on Hurricane, because they play against Spain. Hurricane disappears the whole game, Kopauma scores the equalizer. On sixty eight minutes, what does the English tactical setup do? What does the coach do? Hooks Hurricane, subs him out when they need a goal.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  That's when I went like, this guy only appears. When the lights are brightest, he disappears.

• 39:29Trevor Noah?

  So, so, so a question, so a question I have for you. So, from this World Cup, have you put, is Lamina Mal on fraud watch?

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Lamina Mal won, he's still young.

• 39:38Trevor Noah?

  No, no, I'm just asking, I'm just asking, no, no, you don't have to give me, you don't have to give me just yes or no.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 39:42Trevor Noah?

  No, just yes or no. Okay, then that's fine.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I'll tell you why.

• 39:45Trevor Noah?

  No, no, let's not talk about it.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying you need to create moments of danger.

• 39:48Trevor Noah?

  Joe, for me, Joe, it's fine. I'm not saying yes or no, I just wanted to know.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  So, let me just finish this. So, for me, this is how I look at Hurricane, because I want people to understand, Hurricane is a great club player. I look at Hurricane, the way. I look at Hurricane.

• 40:01Trevor Noah?

  No one defends someone.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 40:03Trevor Noah?

  No, no, we're gonna run out of time, Joe. Joe, we're gonna run out of time. I'm moving on.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Let me just finish this.

• 40:06Trevor Noah?

  No, you can't. I'm moving on, I'm moving on. Let's talk about Thomas Tuchel and the team. Let's move on, let's move on.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  I think he's a great knockout.

• 40:12Trevor Noah?

  Do you think?

• 40:14Speaker 01

  You know, no, I should ask you, I think, actually, I should ask you about him first.

• 40:16Trevor Noah?

  Why?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Because him and Birmingham came out with very defying accounts of the game against Norway. Took a thought, but they got lucky. Took a thought they didn't play well and Birmingham went like, ah, clearly doesn't know what it means to play at this level.

• 40:32Trevor Noah?

  So.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  So what do you think about that?

• 40:33Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so here's what I'll say.

• 40:36Trevor Noah?

  I think that the English media.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:41Trevor Noah?

  And the media in particular sometimes will portray themselves as being on the side of the people or its people.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 40:50Trevor Noah?

  At any given time. And oftentimes, we forget that a lot of the media is on its own side.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:55Trevor Noah?

  And the side it's on is the side of clicks and views.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  It's not the voice of the people, okay, yes. Okay, okay.

• 41:01Trevor Noah?

  So.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:02Trevor Noah?

  Thomas Tuchel.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:03Trevor Noah?

  What he was coming out and saying.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  I love that you keep calling him Tuchel.

• 41:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  He's Tuko.

• 41:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, I know, but I'm saying it in English.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  No, say it in German.

• 41:11Trevor Noah?

  Why do you want me to say it in German?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  You're the famous black Hitler.

• 41:13Trevor Noah?

  No, why are we gonna, why are we gonna, people who have no context for that are gonna be like, what the hell are you talking about?

• 41:18Speaker 01

  No, yeah, yeah, okay.

• 41:19Trevor Noah?

  If you go, um, if you look at, uh, Thomas Tuchel, right? He's got, um, he's got his views on the game. If you listen to what he's saying, when he's asked about England, he's saying, listen, man, I don't like what we did on the field.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  And he's right, yes.

• 41:40Trevor Noah?

  I think we were sloppy.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:42Trevor Noah?

  I think our pace wasn't good.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:44Trevor Noah?

  And I think we were lucky.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:46Trevor Noah?

  I don't want to keep being lucky.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:48Trevor Noah?

  I want to win games definitively because I also understand the team that I have.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 41:53Trevor Noah?

  Right? If I look at the individuals on the field, we should be performing better than this. Okay?

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:59Trevor Noah?

  And then a commentator says to him. Oh, do you think it's a mentality issue? He says, no, he says, all we have right now is mentality.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 42:08Trevor Noah?

  Which is him praising the team.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 42:10Trevor Noah?

  He's saying.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  He's gonna mentality got us, yes.

• 42:12Trevor Noah?

  He's praising Jude Bellingham, he's praising, he's basically going, we're taking games and making, you know, something out of shit, essentially. But, but you can't continue to thrive on mentality.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:23Trevor Noah?

  Right? Mentality is something you use, you know, like Argentina.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 42:27Trevor Noah?

  A lot of it has been mentality.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  It has really been mentality, yes.

• 42:29Trevor Noah?

  But man, a lot of it has been brilliance and like, there's many parts of the game where we're watching them going, oh, they've got this, they've got this. Then the mentality is when they're down or when they're even and it's extra time and then you go, they can still do it, that's mentality. You need your mentality to help you when your tactics, where when your tactics let you down. I think that's what he's saying.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 42:48Trevor Noah?

  The journalist then goes to Jude Bellingham.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:51Trevor Noah?

  And they phrase it as if Tuchel's only opinion of the team and the game was disappointment and criticism.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 43:00Trevor Noah?

  Jude is fresh out of like his exhaustion.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Adrenaline is still pumping, yes.

• 43:03Trevor Noah?

  He goes, you see him shocked. Also remember, this is something that people forget and this is a key thing. How long has Tuchel been the, the coach?

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Hmm. No, no, it's been a short time. It's been, uh, what, a year, two, a month, yeah.

• 43:16Trevor Noah?

  Thomas Tuchel doesn't have like a history with these guys. He doesn't have, he doesn't have a legacy that he's built. He doesn't have like a deep understanding. He does, you know what I mean? I think people shouldn't take that for granted.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 43:27Trevor Noah?

  People shouldn't take for granted what it means when people trust the coach and know the coach.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  But then.

• 43:31Trevor Noah?

  Because, because I'll tell you this, after a game, if Alex Ferguson said something like that about one of his Man United teams.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 43:39Trevor Noah?

  If Pep Guardiola said something like that about, not, not even if, I'll, let's go backwards.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  They'll give him the benefit of doubt, yes.

• 43:44Trevor Noah?

  When Alex Ferguson criticized his team after winning a game but not winning it the way they wanted.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 43:50Trevor Noah?

  When Pep Guardiola criticized his team, when Jürgen Klopp criticized his team, when those coaches did it, when Mourinho criticized his team. When they did that.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  The players gave benefit of doubt.

• 44:02Trevor Noah?

  The players knew what the coach was saying, so they would say, yes. I hear, I, I, I'm also, I can see why the coach, cause Harry Kane came and said that, and maybe he has a different relationship with the, with the German coach.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  But no one, no one understands a word Harry Kane is saying.

• 44:18Trevor Noah?

  But Harry Kane, Harry Kane came out and he said, he said, yeah, I agree with the coach. I don't think we played well. I don't, and, and maybe like, maybe like, maybe, maybe, maybe Jude was conflating from that question. He was conflating. Putting your heart out there.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yes, but you're very, Trevor, Trevor, you're always very good at timing and context. You're always going like, is it the right time to say something? Is it your place? Do you, don't you think maybe it behooved or maybe it should? Being the manager, he should have known better than to say that at that time. Say it back in the dressing room, instead of saying it publicly.

• 44:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, look, you, you, no, no, you're not, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. And, and but then I think there's also like, there's also gonna be a debate. People say. There's some coaches where people complain because it feels like they don't know what's going on. And then the fans.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  You're right, you're right.

• 45:05Trevor Noah?

  And then the fans.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Alvaro Berroa, the whole time he was at Madrid, they kept going like, you keep blaming yourself, you never called the team. You're right.

• 45:10Trevor Noah?

  You see, so now when a coach blames themselves, fans go, why don't they blame, yeah, why don't they blame the players? And then when a coach walks away from a game going like, eh, all that matters is the result. The team go, the fans go, we don't want results, we want a game. And so I, I think, I think that's the thing. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see how they perform.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  I think, I think, I think Argentina is winning that game three nil, easily.

• 45:33Trevor Noah?

  That's your prediction?

• 45:33Speaker 01

  That's my prediction, yes.

• 45:34Trevor Noah?

  Three nil?

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm pulling, I'm taking down my balls, slapping them on this table, three nil. I think Argentina, I think Argentina, people, people have been analyzing.

• 45:43Trevor Noah?

  You know who's, you know who's perfect for you is the, you know, you wanna talk about a World Cup of controversies? Did you see the story that's just come out about the Senegal team?

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 45:51Trevor Noah?

  Where they said apparently the team doctor, who's meant to be like sports science and all of that, apparently trained as a gynecologist. My favorite part of the story, my favorite part of the story was it said. The team found this out too late.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 46:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I went like, the way it was phrased, it made it seem like one of the players came and said, I had a ham, I have a hamstring issue. And the doctor said, drop your pants.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  He has only one solution, yes.

• 46:17Trevor Noah?

  Drop your pants, let's, let's see what's happening, drop your pants, let's.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  The hamstring, yes.

• 46:21Trevor Noah?

  It's so, but this is what, you remember what we were talking about, African football. Why does Morocco do well, why is this doing, that's my thing.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  That's, that's a small thing, no, to go back to Argentina, the reason I think they're going to win that game is, I think, one, you talked about it. Are they a team that has character, they're a team that is built to suffer. They're a team when the chips are down, they don't fold, and we've seen it in this World Cup, we saw it in twenty twenty two.

• 46:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Um, they were what, forty five minutes away from getting knocked out.

• 46:47Trevor Noah?

  Now, you've called it, look, you've, look, look, every episode of the podcast is you going, this team is forged in fire and that's what they're made for.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  And they have, it's, it's, it's a Spanish phrase, they, they have a thing called malaleche. It's when, it's, it's, uh, the, the English translation would be.

• 47:00Trevor Noah?

  That milk.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Bad milk, yes.

• 47:01Trevor Noah?

  Oh, it's milk.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  They, they have a competitive fire that few other teams have, and I think they've been a bit unlucky in their knockout games. They have played, they could, they've created enough chances to win by five goals, but Vosinia, Shobea of Egypt, Gregor Kobo of.

• 47:15Trevor Noah?

  They've met some great goalkeepers.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  The keepers have been playing out of their lives.

• 47:18Trevor Noah?

  No, they've met some great goalkeepers, you're not wrong.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  I don't think Big Ford is going to do that, and that's why.

• 47:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, Pickford, Pickford's had some great performances.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Tiny T-Rex arms, no, it doesn't matter.

• 47:26Trevor Noah?

  Okay, my friend.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Three nil, yeah, three nil, three nil.

• 47:28Trevor Noah?

  Let's, let's leave it there then, let's leave it there, I want to leave it right there, with your balls on the table.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  I also want to call Spain, because we're doing this before Spain, before Spain, France.

• 47:37Trevor Noah?

  Call it.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yes, everyone thinks that, oh, France is going to win, I think Spain is going to win it two one, because I think Spain is a team built to actually beat France. Because France normally beats teams because France is ball dominant.

• 47:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  And for the first time, they're going to be forced to defend.

• 47:50Trevor Noah?

  Well, this is, yeah, this is coming up, okay, we'll see if the production will, yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Mbappe, uh, Dembele, Doue and Olyse are going to be forced to do something they hate doing. They're going to be forced to do something that all attacking players hate doing, which is chase the ball. And you know when in boxing we have the phrase, styles make fights, because normally you can be the greatest, you can be the greatest fighter.

• 48:08Trevor Noah?

  You think this is a style clash?

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Yes, Floyd Mayweather. Always beat everyone till he met uh what's his name Marcos Mina Marcos uh the Argentine Marcos Manado

• 48:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I don't really watch football.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  He always struggled against him uh Manny Pacquiao would beat everyone till he met one Manuel uh one Manuel Marquez so every time you there's always that one team that's almost built to frustrate.

• 48:32Trevor Noah?

  And you think Spain is that team?

• 48:33Speaker 01

  And Spain is that team when it comes to France.

• 48:34Trevor Noah?

  Alright.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  And I think they're going to struggle, yes.

• 48:36Trevor Noah?

  Alright, let's see.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  So yeah, so for me, it's a

• 48:38Trevor Noah?

  This has been good, let's do it.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Maybe if I go, I just want to say one thing, I would like great players standing up and again, physical movement emphasizing it, but I hate what we call in cricket flat track bullies. I don't like players who put up big scorelines against small teams, who put up big scorelines against Afghanistan.

• 48:55Trevor Noah?

  We have a game to watch.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  I want him to show up tomorrow.

• 48:58Trevor Noah?

  I'm gonna go watch the game.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  I want him to show up tomorrow against Argentina. Yes.

• 49:06Trevor Noah?

  Thank you again so much to the sponsor of today's episode, Verizon. They've given their customers unmatched access to the FIFA World Cup 2026, including thousands of free tickets, people, meets and greets with soccer legends, and the once in a lifetime opportunity to watch a portion of the FIFA World Cup from the pitch, from the pitch. All just for being a Verizon customer. If you're not with Verizon, no sweats. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their amazing offers for new customers.

• 49:44Trevor Noah?

  What Now World Cup bonus episodes are produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. Executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, Ryan Harduth and Rebecca Shane. Music mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join us every Monday during the World Cup for bonus episodes of What Now with Trevor Noah.