Stephen A Smith: I’d Run for President If… (Part 1)

How does the loudest voice in sports media handle being in the hot seat? In Part 1, broadcasting titan Stephen A. Smith joins Trevor and Eugene to reveal the untold personal forces that built his unfiltered career. Stephen unpacks how surviving childhood with four older sisters prepared him for relentless public debate, why his traditional journalism training taught him to stop caring about being liked, and the specific phone call that forced him to confront his own trauma and issue a rare public apology to the mental health community. Plus, Stephen sounds off on his intense hatred of New York taxes and explains exactly why he doesn't trust politicians.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Trevor Noah?

  Do you actually plan to run for president?

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Honesty speaking.

• 0:08Trevor Noah?

  I like that.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Trevor, I will be openly, I will be very open about this. I wasn't messing around. I'm a person, you can't blackmail me. Go ahead and tell. Tell everything. Because I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be a prisoner.

• 0:24Trevor Noah?

  Stephen A is like, release the tape.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Release the tape, whatever, whatever you think you got. Release the.

• 0:29Trevor Noah?

  Negotiate with terrorists.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Hell no. I don't believe it's fair for me to run from the hot seat when I put people in it all the time. Plus, this guy, look at him, daddy, got a belly, he's not in shape. You know what? That kind of weight in your midsection, it would really compromise you, your lift and your legs. That's gonna affect your velocity. And I'm bringing.

• 0:51Trevor Noah?

  You can't talk about us like that, we're still here. We know, we know. We know, we know.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  I got you, man.

• 0:58Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

• 1:05Trevor Noah?

  This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. You know what's really frustrating? Knowing the exact information you need is somewhere on your phone, but still ending up wasting your time digging through five different apps just to actually find it. Thankfully, Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini intelligence, so it can proactively find the information I need right when I need it. Like my flight info and travel days, or my calendar when Eugene texts me to hang out. Oh, sorry Eugene, I'm booked. Learn more about what Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages for users 18 and over, and make sure to check responses.

• 1:50Trevor Noah?

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• 2:36Trevor Noah?

  Stephen A. Smith.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  What's going on, Big Z?

• 2:39Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man. You don't understand how excited I am. You know, there's people you will hang out with where you go, this is gonna be exciting, it's gonna be interesting, and I feel like there's a good chance somebody's gonna get in trouble for this conversation. I don't know who.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  I'm willing to bet it's probably me, but that's all right. How you doing, man?

• 3:00Trevor Noah?

  I'm fantastic, man, how are you?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Good to see both of y'all.

• 3:02Trevor Noah?

  Thank you for joining us, yeah, thank you for joining us. This is, um, I love reading about somebody's life when you already know them, because I think sometimes we take for granted that we build perspectives on people based on how we met them, not necessarily on who they are, you know? And when I was reading about your life, um, you correct me if I'm wrong, but you had four older sisters, yeah?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:22Trevor Noah?

  Right, four older sisters. And as I was reading like your stories, your interviews, your previous, like just everything, I couldn't help but wonder, I was like, did ESPN make Stephen A. Smith, or did those four older sisters make Stephen A. Smith? Like.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Oh, it's definitely four older sisters.

• 3:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it feels like.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  It definitely four older sisters. I mean, that makes me laugh when people, you know, I don't know, my college buddies, everybody that knows me, you know, people, they always tell me, people walk up to them and say, is, is, is he really that way? They're like, yo, he's always been that way, he's always been that way. They said he would argue with us in school, you know, he would debate with us in school. He thought he knew everything about sports before. I said, whatever, you know, I mean, I'm just convicted with what I believe and, you know, what, I know what I know, and I'm willing to admit what I don't know.

• 4:12Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  And that's that, you know, so I'm not apologizing for it. And a lot of times, people want you to, you know, move softly. I mean, I think I know this way, let me throw this away. No, you weren't there, I was. I'm telling you what I saw, I'm telling you what I know. I mean, are we really gonna expend energy with that? That's what, to me, it's just, so much is about wasting energy when people are pretending to be something or trying to appease, but you don't wanna offend anybody.

• 4:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  But in the same breath, it's like, you don't wanna waste time either. Get to the point, you know? If this is what I know, and I was there and you weren't, I had this experience and you didn't, not debating with you, it is what it is.

• 4:53Trevor Noah?

  So when you were that kid in the house and you had those four older sisters, were you fighting for your space? Was this, was it like a, was it like a battle of the minds, a battle of personalities, a battle of like Stephen A. staying? I know I'm the youngest, but yo, I, I know.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  I'm battling, but be clear, I was getting my ass kicked.

• 5:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  A lot.

• 5:10Trevor Noah?

  When you have an older sister, there's no battling of the minds, anything.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 5:14Trevor Noah?

  Four, four older sisters.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Four older sisters, I had no chance.

• 5:17Trevor Noah?

  I spent down all the time.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  I had no chance, just, you know, I mean, listen, they would debate with me about certain things, and when they were, when they were losing, shut up. Go to your room, take out the garbage, just turn to wash the dishes, clean the yard, that kind of thing. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I wasn't one that grew up with a lot of rights.

• 5:33Trevor Noah?

  So, so then you were used to what I would say you sometimes experience now, which is, you work in the profession of putting your opinion out there, and the public is in the business of clapping back when they don't agree with you, which they often don't.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:47Trevor Noah?

  But it seems like you, you've got like a, like a tough skin, it seems like that. Do you, do you feel that?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I mean, well, I will say to you, first of all, I'm most, I'm right most of the time, let's get that out the way first. I am right most of the time. They just really illuminate times when they got me, or they think they got me and I'm wrong.

• 6:06Trevor Noah?

  Oh, because of how, okay.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  That's how it is, that's number one. But it's like, you know, the, the criticism from the public, it phases me under two conditions.

• 6:17Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  When I'm wrong, or when I know they're lying.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Like, you know I'm right, but you're feeding into the algorithms, or you're feeding in the public perception, or you're so damn soft that you wanna join with the gang mentality and pile on because it's, it's convenient for you to do so. And, and the easiest people that it is to catch with that is where, you know, people that you know don't particularly care about this. Do you ever find yourself looking at people that might be, you know, spewing criticism in your direction, and you're like, are you really that upset? Does it really mean that much? Like, it can't possibly mean that much to you, that particular subject. If you disagree with me, fine, but to be so angry about it, really, that's what you're

• 7:07Speaker 01

  doing, that's when you know that either it's made up, or they don't like your ass, and they were just looking for an excuse.

• 7:15Trevor Noah?

  Not about the subject, it's about you.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  They were looking for an excuse to pounce on you, like you said, it's not about the subject, it's about me. And far more often than not, it's about me, but I don't really worry about it too much for a couple of reasons. Number one, I just got tougher skin than that, it ain't gonna phase me, I ain't gonna lose no sleep over it, you understand, it ain't gonna compromise me, that's number one. And number two, I think it's important to recognize what my background is. And it's not just me being raised by four sisters, it's me being a journalist. People, they forget that in this day and age, because everybody's got a voice now. Everybody got a podcast, YouTube show, you know, everybody got a social media account, Twitter, X, whatever it is, and the world has a voice now.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I grew up when it wasn't like that, and you had to earn the right to have a voice. I had to be an intern to a high school reporter, to a college reporter, to a, a pro reporter, to a NBA columnist, to a general sports columnist. In 2003, when the Philadelphia Inquirer named me a general sports columnist, I was the 21st African American in this nation's history to be named a general sports columnist. People like William C. Roden and Mike Wilbon and Kevin Blackstone and Ralph Wiley and others preceded me, but I was number 21. And so it wasn't, what that meant was, you had a license to give your opinion, because social media wasn't here.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  It didn't exist back then. And so because of that, opinions came from people who were licensed to have one, which were columnists. So that, what I had to go through to earn the right to express my opinion, they're teaching you in journalism, you're in a wrong field if you're here to be liked. In pursuit of the truth, the number one thing you have to shed is this insatiable appetite to be liked. If that is important to you, leave the business. They told you that when they were training you.

• 9:14Trevor Noah?

  That's the first thing they told you.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  That's where I come from. And so for me, to come from that background, I actually laugh when people think that their criticisms are phasing me. It's like, really? You really think I'm losing sleep over this?

• 9:28Trevor Noah?

  Can I, can I tell you what? Can I tell you what this just sounded like? This sounded like a more articulate version of Bane's Born in the Dark. That's what this just sounded like now. Like, he was like, whoa, criticism, whoa, you merely adopted criticism, I was forced in criticism. That's what this sounded like. Okay, so what would you say, what would you say is the biggest difference then? Looking at it, you know, from a, from a qualified perspective, from a, you know, journalism school perspective, from like the grind, what would you say the biggest difference is between somebody who just like shares their opinion on topics and they're going, and somebody who has gone down the path that you have, when you look at it, what do you see?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  When you've gone, when you've gone down the path that I've gone down, it's not always, please don't make me wrong, I've certainly made my mistakes, but for the most part, you're putting forth your due diligence.

• 10:16Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  You know, you're like, do we know this is true?

• 10:20Trevor Noah?

  Okay, there's work behind it.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  I mean, I gotta, I gotta, I, you know, I gotta do, you sure? You know, there's a level of skepticism, and, and contrary to what people believe about most people that were raised in the field of journalism, there's a humane perspective that kicks in because there's something that makes you feel uncomfortable about talking about things you just don't know.

• 10:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, makes you feel accountable.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  You just don't know, you don't, you don't feel armed.

• 10:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  You don't feel buffered, you know? And, and don't get me wrong, you still do it sometimes, like I found myself, I got in trouble recently speaking about something on, you know, pop culture and entertainment, because I didn't know, it was just all over the news, but I didn't know anything about it, and I opened my big fat mouth and said something about it, and I shouldn't have. And that's on me, because I was doing multiple jobs that day, and then they just asked me this question on, on a podcast that I'm developing under my straight shooter media company, Culture Table, and I just answered it, and I shouldn't have. But in the end, for the most part, 99% of the time. I didn't, I don't know. I don't know, but I gotta do my research. I gotta make some calls. I gotta read more. I don't know about this.

• 11:30Trevor Noah?

  That's interesting, okay.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  That's the approach. Today's world doesn't teach you that.

• 11:34Trevor Noah?

  Today's world also doesn't reward it. We always talk about this.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:38Trevor Noah?

  It doesn't, it doesn't reward the I don't know. It doesn't reward the let's see. It doesn't reward the let's read up on it. So, so sometimes, do you feel that people are sometimes trying to get a take out of you because they know that the take already comes with a little more potency because it's from you? Like, they know, let me ask Stephen A. Smith, let me ask Stephen A. Smith about Pokemon, because even though he, he may not be into Pokemon, and I'm assuming these things.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  My brother, I got something to tell y'all about the NBA Finals in San Antonio between the San Antonio Spurs and the New York Knicks. This guy is heckling me constantly while I'm taping segments. And I'm completely ignoring him because I'm very good at that. I'm very good at telling you to kiss my ass without ever telling you to kiss my ass. I'm just very good at it. And I know how to ignore people. I know how to just keep it moving.

• 12:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  And finally, as I'm walking away, the guy screams at me, "Are you the only guy that gotta make money? Damn, Stephen, they say something. We trying to get paid out here."

• 12:47Trevor Noah?

  Oh.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  And I turned around and I walked over to him and shook his hand and said, "What you want?" Because I respect that.

• 12:56Trevor Noah?

  Thank you for your honesty.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Thank you for the honesty. You know, you just, you, you, you know, you were trying to heckle me, heckle me, and, and then you admitted, "Look, man, I'm bothering you because you the one here that I can make money off of right now. I'm trying to get this money. And this is how I'm making this money by doing this YouTube." And because he admitted it, I stood right in front of him and I said, "Ask away." Because at least you admitted it. All right, you trifling ass self. But it's all right. It's okay. You admitted it. And because you admitted it, I'm good. You know, I'm good. At least you were honest about it. You were honest about it. I can respect that. You just trying to make some money. Got it.

• 13:35Trevor Noah?

  So, okay, does, do you sometimes wish that then peace would follow? Because I, I, I can't imagine what it must be like. I mean, I hosted The Daily Show for years. I've been a stand-up comedian. We've been doing comedy 20 years. We started together. Giving your opinion in any public forum invites the response to said opinion. Right? We talk about this all the time.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:56Trevor Noah?

  But I can't imagine being somebody on your level who's seen as somebody who gives controversial opinions or strong opinions. And I go like, what is your life like? Do you, do you just have people heckling at you when you walk in the streets?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Sometimes, sometimes. But I get a lot of love and a lot of respect. I think there's this misnomer that, you know what? People are heckling me and bothering me all the time. I would tell you, man, it is very, don't get me wrong, I run into them all the time, but weighted against those who support me and show me love, I can't even, it, it's, it's out of the park. It's nothing compared to the cynics and the critics. Nothing. You know, so, so, and I, and I appreciate it because they appreciate my honesty. I'm not telling you, if I haven't seen something, if I'm not a direct conduit to the information, then I'm pushing out there. Then I'm at the mercy of my sources, who I've networked, who's given me the intel, et cetera, et cetera.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  So I'm telling you, well, here's what I heard. This is what I'm being told, that kind of thing. And based on that information, here is where I stand. And people respect that because I'm not telling you to ignore the information. I'm not telling you I have all the facts.

• 15:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Based on what I know, this is where I stand. And they appreciate the fact that I'm honest enough to tell them where I stand based on that information, that I'm not scared to do so. Because they know a lot of people that are fearful of letting you know where they stand and how they feel because of the potential repercussions out there. And it could be reporters that want to come across as objective. It could be athletes that, you know, don't want to upset a fan base. It could be actors and actresses that don't want to upset a studio. It could be executives that come with an inordinate amount of responsibility and they're representing the brand that they represent and they don't want to cast any aspersions on it.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  There are an abundance of reasons that contribute to people being reluctant and hesitant. Then you got some people out there that just don't want noise. They just want peace.

• 16:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  They're like, "Listen, I did my job. I want to go home. I want to live my life. I don't feel like being bothered."

• 16:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  I don't feel like being bothered. Here's where it becomes stressful for me mentally, internally.

• 16:17Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  By virtue of what I do for a living,

• 16:22Speaker 01

  there's an inordinate amount of times where I've got people on the hot seat.

• 16:26Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I don't believe it's fair for me to run from the hot seat when I put people in it all the time.

• 16:33Trevor Noah?

  Hmm, okay.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I don't, you know, if, if you know anything about me, I, listen, I'm here, it's a pleasure to meet you and honored to meet you because I've been a fan of your work for a very, very long time. I don't know what the hell you gonna ask? I didn't tell my team, "What are you gonna ask?"

• 16:49Trevor Noah?

  No, you didn't.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  No, you didn't do that? And you know, when, when I go interviews, you know, people have orchestrated a list of questions. What? No.

• 16:56Trevor Noah?

  List of questions, restrictions.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Whatever.

• 16:58Trevor Noah?

  Don't ask this, don't talk about that.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  I don't do that. I don't do that. I know how to say, "No comment." I know how to say, "None of your damn business." I know how. I, I don't have to do that. I don't, I don't play that game. It's like, wait a minute. I'm, I'm, I'm doing, even though I'm an incredibly respectful interviewer, I'm very, very big on letting you tell your story. I'm just asking you the questions that people want to know, but I'm not trying to have a got you moment.

• 17:22Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  But I still know it's a hot seat. Because if you try to bullshit me, I might catch you. And then it's not, might, might not be good for you. I know that. So I know that that could, somebody could come sit down with me with a level of trepidation.

• 17:34Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  And because that's the reality, knowing that I put people in that position for a living.

• 17:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  How hypocritical would it be for me to sit in a chair, to, to refrain from sitting in a chair, to refrain from being ass tough questions?

• 17:50Trevor Noah?

  Right, right.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  To, to, to want to police, like, that's one of the problems my publicist has with me. She's like, "Stephen, I just want to say, I don't care what they're gonna ask. Let them ask it."

• 18:01Trevor Noah?

  Still to come in this episode.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  I really genuinely believe I could win. But the flip side to it is that I would have to give up my money. Because equal time rules, according to the FCC, states by virtue of what I do for a living,

• 18:18Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  I would have to give up my job immediately. I don't know if you've seen the news about my contract. And I'm not confirming or denying that contract, but I will confirm, I ain't giving it up. I ain't giving it up. Hell, no. I'm not giving that up. So it was an easy decision. Oh, I gotta get, and I was informed. Seriously, I was informed. I was told. If you decide to run,

• 18:44Speaker 01

  the second you announce, that's it. you will be taken off the air immediately.

• 18:52Trevor Noah?

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• 20:31Trevor Noah?

  So let me ask you this then, let me ask you this. See, there's a few things that I found myself thinking when I knew you were coming through to hang out with us. One was,

• 20:40Trevor Noah?

  how do you choose when to apologize? Because you stand on what you say.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 20:46Trevor Noah?

  But I-

• 20:46Speaker 06

  Ten toes down.

• 20:47Trevor Noah?

  Ten toes down, is that what they say? Ten toes down.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  That's what they say, that's what they say. I don't know where the hell it came from, but that's what they say, that's what they say.

• 20:54Speaker 06

  And you T's hate that.

• 20:58Trevor Noah?

  So I don't stand by what I say?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 21:00Trevor Noah?

  So, but you have apologized.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:04Trevor Noah?

  You've apologized when you felt like people have misinterpreted you. You've apologized when you felt like maybe you didn't speak with enough clarity. One of the more recent ones, I think it was the NFL player who said they were-

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Lane Johnson.

• 21:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, Johnson said he was taking, stepping away from the NFL for his mental health. And you said something, people came at you and then you apologized and then you clarified. And that got me thinking, I went, okay, Stephen A. stands by what he says. But I do see examples of him apologizing. I'd love to know why he apologizes in some instances and in others he goes, no, no, no, there will be no apology for this.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  When somebody attacks me on the facts and my facts are right, I ain't budging. Get the hell over it. You, I am not wrong. But there's a perspective that comes with anything that we discuss. And that perspective, in large part,

• 21:59Speaker 01

  has something to do with how you ultimately make people feel about what you have said. So let's take the Lane Johnson situation into consideration. Lane Johnson is an all-pro right tackle, he's going into the Hall of Fame. He's had mental health issues in the past, which in all honesty, I actually had forgotten about, you know, when I was talking about him that day. But they said he retired from the Philadelphia Eagles. And you know what, they attributed some of his decision to be the mental health. I wasn't talking about him. What I was saying was that this man's going to the Hall of Fame, one of the great ones, whatever. But damn it, the Philadelphia Eagles, they could make you want to do that. And they say, because they've been awful. You understand, because they don't protect their quarterback?

• 22:43Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  You understand, they're saying it's subjective. This man hasn't given up a quarterback hit or a quarterback sack this season. But everybody around him has. They can't protect the quarterback, they can't run the football, they can't get wide receivers open. I mean, it's rough out there and it's chaotic, they got a bunch of stuff going on, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But because I said it like that, the mental health community

• 23:03Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  got, you know, they were very put off and offended by that. And so for me, I'm thinking about it, I'm like, that's not what I said, I'm joking around about the Eagles. But then I said, first of all, it's mental health, this, I shouldn't have been joking, number one. Number two,

• 23:23Speaker 01

  somebody reminded me of his history. I said, damn.

• 23:26Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Point two.

• 23:29Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Point number three,

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Jay Glazer works for Fox Sports. He's been a friend of mine for 13 years. Really big, strong, mental health advocate, who has had his own battles. And he talked about his battles in the past, when he was interviewing, when I was interviewing him. He was also a friend that was there for me and spoke to me about my mental health issues when my mother died.

• 23:57Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  I've never been one who felt that I had any kind of mental issue whatsoever, until 2017, when I lost my mother. It is, to this day, the most devastating thing that has ever happened to me. I cried every day for a year. I was in a very, very dark place for, I would say about two years, where I didn't care whether I lived or died. I was gonna go kill myself, but I didn't care about being reckless, I didn't care. I was just in a really bad place. And I remember Jay Glazer calling me back then, because he saw something. And I knew that I had already started going to therapy, because I had already owned up to myself and to my loved ones. I kind of needed this help, but I had never spoken about it publicly.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  And so when the Lane Johnson thing, fast forward, comes about, Jay Glazer calls me. And Jay Glazer said, "Do you remember how you felt when your mother died?" I said, "Of course I did." He said, "Do you remember how long it took you to acknowledge it?"

• 24:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  And I said, "Yeah." And then he said, "That's mental health with a lot of people." He said, "The resistance to revealing the vulnerability."

• 25:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  "And I know you didn't mean it, because I know you, brother, we've been friends for 35 years. And I know where your heart is." He said, "But how it came across was lighthearted. And it's the kind of thing that someone in the mental community can interpret as shame."

• 25:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:31Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  He said, "And because they can interpret it as shame, because it's aloof, it's dismissive, it's downplayed, and they feel coming forward would make them look weak, it can serve as a determinant for them to come forward, to seek the help that they need."

• 25:49Trevor Noah?

  And for others as well.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Right. And so my point in answering your question is, ain't that more important than me standing ten toes down?

• 25:57Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  That's more important than me being right?

• 25:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter what my intent is. It doesn't matter what I think I said. What matters is that there's a community out there that was potentially negatively affected in a very profound way by how I chose to handle the subject of his retirement, knowing his connection with mental health. And I said, "Nah, that's far more important than me being right." And when I apologized, and I have apologized on numerous occasions in the past, that's exactly what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about the lives affected, because I'm okay. So if I'm okay, I'm like, what am I worried about me for? I'm okay.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  You know, it's those people that need to know, I didn't mean it that way, that wasn't my intent.

• 26:46Trevor Noah?

  Has it gotten easier or harder to apologize the bigger you've gotten?

• 26:52Speaker 01

  It's gotten, well, it's easy for me, because my mother taught me at a very young age, it's really, really easier to live, to force people to live with your truth than for you to have to live with your lies. And I take that in a very macro perspective. I'm not going home and tossing and turning, because I'm trying to protect myself. I ain't doing that. I'm the type of person I'd rather get over with. Like, I'm a person, you can't blackmail me. Go ahead and tell. Tell everything. Because I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be a prisoner.

• 27:32Trevor Noah?

  Stephen A. is like, "Release the tape."

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Release the tape, do whatever, whatever you think you got, release it, let it out.

• 27:38Trevor Noah?

  Negotiate for tolerance.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Hell, no. Because I'm not, I'm not going to be, I know that I can't sleep, I can't rest, I can't be at peace if I'm at the mercy of someone else.

• 27:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they're holding, they've got that, we talk about, they're holding you, they've got, you know what I mean?

• 27:51Speaker 01

  I can't do that, I'm not built like that. It ain't happening to me.

• 27:55Trevor Noah?

  That's fascinating. Coming to New, how much time do you actually spend in New York?

• 27:59Speaker 01

  I'm in New York about 40% of the year.

• 28:03Trevor Noah?

  Like, you have sort of been labeled as like, the number one Mamdani hater. But again, this is like a clip world, so, you know, you'll see a piece of what Stephen A. Smith says about Mamdani, and then a piece of what you say about politics and-

• 28:14Speaker 01

  I don't hate the man.

• 28:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I want to know from your perspective, when you talk about it, you talk about New York, you talk about Mamdani, like, what have you seen, what do you continue to see, and what do you wish people would understand about what you're trying to say whenever you say something about him?

• 28:27Speaker 01

  All I try to say, listen, I am not an aficionado. I read Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Politico, Drudge Report, New York Times, LA Times. You know, I read a lot of stuff, a lot of material that I can get my hands on, but when I have time, I'm not an aficionado, it's not what I do all day, every day. That's usually sports, that's not this other stuff. But I'm a conscientious observer and I pay attention. And I'm a voter and I'm a taxpayer, that last part is very critical. I'm a damn taxpayer. You see, I'm not gonna be objective.

• 29:00Trevor Noah?

  Everyone in New York remembers that part very quickly.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  I'm not, excuse me. I am not going to be objective and neutral when I look at my check, when it comes to New York and California. I'm just not, I'm just not gonna do it, I'm not gonna do it. I know that New York and California are the two highest taxes, and Jersey, Jersey, let's not leave Jersey out of this, the highest taxes in the country, okay? And so, when I've made, when I've made X amount of dollars, and 54 to 57% or 60% of my money is gone, I don't like you.

• 29:37Trevor Noah?

  50 something.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't like you. I don't, I don't like, we don't have to, I don't like you. And here's, and here's why, and here's why, because this is me.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Mom Donnie is a socialist.

• 29:52Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Listen, I ain't got no problem with socialists. There's socialists all over the world. I got a problem with them in America.

• 29:59Trevor Noah?

  Why?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Because we were raised as capitalist. That's why.

• 30:03Trevor Noah?

  Okay, but, but wait, here's one thing I'll, I'll, I find interesting though. I agree with like, and I think you'll understand this as a journalist, as a broadcaster, et cetera. I find there's oftentimes a disconnect in how America advertises itself, even to itself, and how it acts, right? So, we can start with the very foundation of the country. The document written, all men are created equal.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 30:25Trevor Noah?

  There were men, exactly. There were men of a certain color and women of that same color who were not equal at all. But the document said it, right? I think America does the same thing when it comes to capitalism, in my opinion.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:34Trevor Noah?

  America loves to expound this idea of like capitalism, capitalism, capitalism. But when you analyze it, when you analyze it, and when you stress test it, a lot of the time, the best things that come out of America aren't capitalistic ideas. Like, you look at the boom in America's economy, you look at the, like, like the golden generation, when people were buying houses, people were going to school. Very socialist principles, government paying for people's education, helping them buy homes, give them loans, et cetera. And my big one, Stephen A, is business. I don't understand how people can say that all the time in America, when American businesses are running a socialist system with the government, and the people don't get to enjoy that. Does that make sense?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  It makes sense. It makes sense, and I get you. But if I sat up here and I gave you an abundance of numbers.

• 31:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  And it says that, you know what, the economy is not as bad. You understand, affordability is not as bad. Inflation doesn't exist. There is no recession, blah, blah. And I said all of this to you, you don't give a shit. What you care about is your rent.

• 31:29Trevor Noah?

  That's true.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Your mortgage, your car payment, your grocery bills, et cetera, et cetera. And so, when you're feeling the full effect of it, and then you hear these politicians coming down the pike, and they continuously give you the same song and dance about what they want to do for you, right? But you know that's not getting done. All of a sudden, that's why Trump's in office. Trump ain't in office because he's the answer. Trump's in office because it's a backlash. It was a backlash against Obama initially. It was ultimately a backlash against Biden and Kamala Harris the second go-round, post-COVID, obviously, and all of this other stuff that was going on. Cancel culture, identity politics, those kind of things played a role.

• 32:06Trevor Noah?

  Race also, you got to include?

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Well, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry. I mean, I, I thought that was automatic. My bad, my bad, my bad, my bad. I didn't think I had to say that. I mean, that's automatic, you know? But I think that when you, when you look, because clearly, you've got a white contingent out there that's incredibly comfortable, and Trump has made them very comfortable. Although he doesn't want to accept accountability for it, but what's the big deal with that? The man won't accept accountability for anything. So, we understand who he is and how he rose. But the reality is, is that when you look at things from the perspective that I'm looking at it as, understanding that these things exist, I'm ultimately looking at two parties. I'm looking at the binary system that we live in.

• 32:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, which is not great, but yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Which is not great.

• 32:47Trevor Noah?

  But it's what the one you have.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Am I a fan of conservatives? Hell, no. You understand, do I believe in some free market capitalism? Yeah, with safety net, sure. Do I, do, do I want, do I mind entitlement programs? You're damn right, I don't. I want to look out for the less fortunate and the disenfranchised. That's what helped me get to where I am. I'm not averse to that. The flip side to it is that I don't like a party that comes to us and tells us, you know what, we got your back. Well, how? Because we say so, that's how. And then you don't support them, and you're a sellout to your own community. Or you're racist, or you're this, or you're that. But we don't get to look at you and say, other than telling us how awful they are, could you tell us what's good about you?

• 33:25Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  And by the way, are you going to continue to come to us and raise our taxes? You built forty trillion dollars of debt, not just you. Both parties have done that, right? The cost of living, right? We see all of this stuff going on, and we're looking at you coming to us, telling us the government has your back. But when you think about the American dream, free market capitalism, to some degree, serves a role in it. You and I ain't working at the post office, okay? We've, we've got better opportunities. We ain't knocking a post office job.

• 33:54Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  We ain't knocking any of those jobs. A job is a damn job. You a hard-working American citizen, God bless you, more power to you. But that ain't what we grew up dreaming about. And when I think about what one party does against the other, what I often do is say, that's the party in the face of my community swearing you have our back. But you doing everything you can to make sure immigration favors you, so you can sit up there and lock down that kind of vote. But what have you done for the black community? Have a right to ask that question. You might have to answer. You might have to answer. Hell with that. They the one running for office. Do you have the answer?

• 34:28Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Don't tell me, don't tell me what Trevor Noah said. You do it. He ain't running for office. Yo ass is. Do you have the answers? What have you done? And I look at things along, along those lines, and I question it. Not to say that I'm going to go against you, but I'm cynical by nature, especially when it comes to politicians, because I don't like none of your ass. I don't believe none of y'all. And that's what I'm saying. But I can't knock this side if I think they've given me the impression that they were never concerned about me anyway, and they even lied about it.

• 34:59Trevor Noah?

  So, here's something I've always wanted to know, especially from somebody who loves sports and is ingrained in it the way you are.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:04Trevor Noah?

  I grew up watching football, soccer, right? So, the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, all of that stuff, okay?

• 35:10Speaker 01

  So, you're forgetting the PSL.

• 35:12Trevor Noah?

  That's, that's the world I grew up in. He doesn't know the P- if I say PSL, he's gonna, then it's like...

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Stephen A. Smith will admit if he doesn't know.

• 35:18Trevor Noah?

  Okay, the PSL, anyway.

• 35:21Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what the PSL is?

• 35:22Speaker 01

  I'll be damned if I know anything about soccer.

• 35:23Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so...

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Even though I enjoy it when I'm watching the World Cup.

• 35:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's, that's everyone, everyone loves it. So, one of the things I've always found interesting is how American sports is based on a socialist-type principle. I've always been intrigued by this, in that, in that. When a team is performing at the worst level, generally, what the system does is they then afford that team the opportunity to get some of the best players so that that team can rise up in the ranks. I've always been amazed by that.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Well...

• 35:54Trevor Noah?

  Like, in basketball, that's what happens, right?

• 35:55Speaker 01

  That's fine, that's fine. The draft. I mean, if you're the worst NFL team, you're going to get the number one overall pick.

• 35:59Trevor Noah?

  So, let's, let's just start with that. Like, this is just an honest question. It's not even like a gotcha's. I just want to understand. Do you, do you like that system?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  It doesn't bother me, you know why?

• 36:06Trevor Noah?

  Why?

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Because it was collectively bargained.

• 36:09Trevor Noah?

  Okay, okay.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  So, think about what I'm talking about with the whole Protect College Sports Act right now, what my issue is.

• 36:16Trevor Noah?

  What is that, I don't know what it is.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Well, the Protect College Sports Act is a bipartisan bill

• 36:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  that just went through the Senate by seventy-seven, twenty-two vote. It was authored by Senator Ted Cruz out of Texas, Republican. But it was, it was coordinated in concert with Democratic senators, like, one out of Washington, another guy by the name of Chris Coons out of Delaware, who's a Democrat. Seventy-seven, twenty-two. Because they need to reel in college sports because of name, image, and likeness.

• 36:44Trevor Noah?

  It's gone crazy.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  And how that's taken over college sports, and you've got some players making money. The NCAA, through their lobbyists and what have you, have been working their magic on Capitol Hill to grease the skids to get a bill in place that would essentially compromise everything the Supreme Court just granted college athletes in twenty-twenty-two.

• 37:06Trevor Noah?

  I see.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  And here's why it's a big deal. Brett Kavanaugh is a Supreme Court Justice appointed by President Donald Trump.

• 37:13Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  He voted against, not voted, I'm sorry. He spoke out against the NCAA, saying, no other business in America gets away with what y'all getting away with, exploiting these underprivileged athletes. It's wrong. And basically, without saying racist, basically alluded to them being racist and their tendencies. And he called them out. That's why NIL came into play

• 37:36Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  over the last few years. Well, this is a way to circumvent all of that. And to have a law in place, you're prohibiting players from transferring more than once, you're capping the, the money that they can earn collectively, you know, you're not doing it to the coaches, you're not doing it to the administrations. All of this kind of stuff is going on. And so, I bring that up because I am adamantly against the bill.

• 38:02Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  But not because of the bill. I don't care about the particulars in the bill. My issue is forty-eight percent of the athletes are black in football, in college.

• 38:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Fifty percent of them are black in basketball.

• 38:14Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Why the hell is there any representation for them at the negotiating table? Who the hell are y'all to say, we have your best interest at heart? This is what we're going to do, and y'all don't need to be there at all. Now, I want to, I want you to understand the impact. The president, who is in support of this bill, summons a whole bunch of people, network executives, business executives, I mean, legendary coaches like Nick Saban and others. I mean, he got the whole, fifty, he had Condoleezza Rice, the former Secretary of State. Okay, yeah, yeah, Condoleezza Rice. He had fifty people there in attendance. Two are black. Condoleezza Rice.

• 38:56Trevor Noah?

  You can't, Condoleezza, okay.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Condoleezza Rice.

• 38:57Trevor Noah?

  Okay, I was just checking.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  She's a black woman. I mean, listen, just because you don't, you disagree with our politics, don't...

• 39:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I was checking, yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  But I can tell you this. Condoleezza Rice and Charlie Ward, a former star player at Florida State, who used to play for the Knicks as a point guard, played football and basketball. There's a black coach by the name of Marcus Freeman. He happens to be one of the top five coaches in America. Who coaches at Notre Dame? He was not invited. Oh, there was not a black commissioner that was invited. There was not a black athletic director that was invited. No black administrator whatsoever was invited. You had all these white folks up on Capitol Hill with two blacks sprinkled in the mix, and said, we have to come to a conclusion about what's best for these student athletes

• 39:45Speaker 01

  without having any representation at the negotiating table.

• 39:50Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  That is my issue. So, what I have been saying to people is, I'm not here to fight the particulars for a bill, because I don't give a damn what collective bargaining agreement you come up with. There's going to be winners and losers, you're going to get some of what you want, not most of it, blah, blah, blah.

• 40:04Trevor Noah?

  But you wanted to be chosen by the people who are affected by it.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  But the people that are affected by it,

• 40:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  as long as you sitting across that negotiating table, there's nothing we can say. But if you don't have them at the negotiating table, that is un-American. That is un-American. And that's the difference.

• 40:21Trevor Noah?

  Coming up, part two on What Now? How would you want to see America run?

• 40:28Trevor Noah?

  Not what America is, because I've heard you say, because you'll say like, this country wasn't built on socialism, or this country's about cap- no, I hear you, but I'm saying if you and Stephen A. Smith were going from scratch, you go like, okay, and it would work, what system would you want to see?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  This is very simplistic.

• 40:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  And I get it. But me personally, when I say pro-business, here's what I mean.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  It would be a priority for me to make sure as many American citizens as possible

• 40:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  is gainfully employed. You know, for one reason. Because you got something to lose. When you got something to lose, you know how to act.

• 41:08Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Land Hardwood.

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