Meet Eugene Khoza – One of My Favorite People

In another “My Favorite People” episode, Trevor chats with South African comedian and dear friend Eugene Khoza. From processing loss to abundance, from friendship to religion, from hanging on to letting go, nothing is off limits in this hilarious and profound episode.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Trevor Noah?

  This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. You know what's really frustrating? Knowing the exact information you need is somewhere on your phone, but still ending up wasting your time digging through five different apps just to actually find it. Thankfully, Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini intelligence, so it can proactively find the information I need right when I need it. Like my flight info on travel days or my calendar when Eugene texts me to hang out. Oh, sorry Eugene, I'm booked. Learn more about what Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages for users 18 and over, and make sure to check responses.

• 0:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, booked forever, forever.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. Start your morning with the $6 McRiddles Extra Value Meal, featuring your choice of a sausage, egg and cheese McRiddles or bacon, egg and cheese McRiddles, plus crispy hash browns and a small premium roast coffee. Sweet, savory, crispy, and caffeinated. It's everything your morning ordered, all for just $6. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing at participating McDonald's.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  So what made you decide to go into podcasting?

• 1:16Trevor Noah?

  Decide to go into it? Is that your podcast? Is that your podcast voice?

• 1:20Speaker 02

  No, Epstein did not.

• 1:25Trevor Noah?

  I'm gonna have to edit around all of Eugene's vernacular.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:27Trevor Noah?

  Because how do you do subtitles on the podcast? Any vernacular that you say, I'm gonna just throw in an American guy's voice there. So you'll be like, but Epstein, and then instead of like, the guy ends out something, then it'll be like, Epstein, he did it.

• 1:45Trevor Noah?

  And then I'll just tell, I'm just gonna tell the audience, every time you hear this voice, he spoke in another language, and I didn't want to lose the authenticity of the conversation. So I didn't edit around it at all.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  So there you go.

• 1:57Trevor Noah?

  But I had,

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Ah, that's funny.

• 1:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I, because you have to be subtitles, but I want you to know that it's subtitles. Yeah, what I mean, you see me.

• 2:09Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.

• 2:26Trevor Noah?

  Whenever you want more water, just...

• 2:30Trevor Noah?

  Just do something natural.

• 2:41Trevor Noah?

  Oh, would you like some water Eugene? Oh, thank you.

• 2:45Trevor Noah?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. This is the awkward part, how you start a conversation.

• 2:52Trevor Noah?

  It's the worst part of every conversation. Why don't we start with a prayer? This is actually why our grandmother started meetings with prayers.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, to cut the awkwardness.

• 2:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because it's to cut the awkwardness. Because now you can't just come together and be like, "Your son has a drug problem and your husband is cheating." If you start with a prayer, then it opens it up.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  But it was also a township power move. Because everyone here will know whose house this is. Because you can't lead a prayer at...

• 3:14Trevor Noah?

  You can't lead a prayer at somebody else's house. When you pray in a South African household, right? First of all, like, I don't know if your grandmother did this. My grandmother used to give her address. And she used to give like where she's from and her name and everything. No, really, my grandmother would do that. She'd be like, "Baweje sama zulun, eh, Kamalamongo Francis Noah." And then she'd be like, "Stalala eh, six two three six."

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Send, send, what a location.

• 3:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, who you are, where you're from, whatever. And I remember I asked her once, I was like, "Why are you doing this?" And then she was like, "Why do I assume..."

• 3:41Speaker 02

  He knows where I am.

• 3:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, she said, "Hi, Trevor, I must just assume that God is always listening to me." She said, "Ay, ay, ay, that's not fair." And if you think about it, most South African, like, prayer in general, I think is very like considerate of God. It's very much like, we know that you're doing stuff and we know that like, you know what I mean?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I can see, I think because of missionaries, we never, as black people, thought that God is with us. God was brought to us. So we always have to identify ourselves and also separate ourselves from the non-believers.

• 4:13Trevor Noah?

  It's funny, now that you say the missionary thing,

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:15Trevor Noah?

  I actually think a lot of that was real. Hmm. Is that like, cause I I always think about this, I go like, imagine being

• 4:25Trevor Noah?

  a black person anywhere on the continent, right? These people come with religion, right? And then they tell you that the reason things are going bad in your life is because you don't have

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Religion.

• 4:36Trevor Noah?

  This this God in particular, because there was religion.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:40Trevor Noah?

  There were different religions all over the continent, all over South America, all over these places. They would force, um, you you know, the the native people, that they would force them to buy goods from them that nobody else wanted to buy at predetermined prices. They would say they would do the work of like donkeys and mules and and all of that stuff. But the main thing was they also came in with religion. So everywhere in the world, I can see this this this vibe where people have come in with religion, saying to you, hey, all these bad things that are happening to you are because you don't worship God.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 5:09Trevor Noah?

  And then it must have been weird because the natives are like, you you are the bad thing that's happening to us. They're like, yes, exactly. If you had prayed.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  And you have penicillin.

• 5:19Trevor Noah?

  This wouldn't be happening to you.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  But I thought you didn't need penicillin because you can pray. Yay.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  And this is. Go put on clothes. Not cancer time yet.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  But also churches in the township, that's where you would see family structure.

• 5:39Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  That's where you'd see people dressed up nicely because parents used to leave very early. So you never see them wearing nice clothes, except for on a Sunday.

• 5:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  And then also cars as well. You'd see your principal or the the local doctor, they would pack their cars. So church has always been aspirational. I don't I don't think anything has changed from back in the day to now. And also its missionaries offered people to go to university. Nelson Mandela was that beneficiary. So a lot of people that went and played cricket and went to school because of churches. So a lot of people are very conflicted when it comes to religion and this.

• 6:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  And this topic because somehow they benefited from it.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Now they can't separate themselves from the lies of it as well and the oppression of it as well. But people in other countries who are not part of the system of going to that. Because if you think of a church, such a small building for a big community. So it's already on its um by merit, it already is an exclusive club of people.

• 6:31Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  The believers, there's the believers that are believing in proxy. There's the believers that are dedicated in coming here and giving money and dressing up and showing up. It's a place for people to gather once a week to come and say what they need to say. So Tina, the organization of it ended for us when church ended. But for people in power, it kept on continuing the whole week through. Because people run the church, run the church, they don't have other jobs. The believers have other jobs.

• 6:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  The pope's job is to run the church. Yes, the other ones, it's for them to go and collect money and come back and give it back to the pope.

• 7:02Trevor Noah?

  I'm conflicted when it comes to church because I think.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  You love church?

• 7:06Trevor Noah?

  I, yeah, I love it.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Churches, I don't love church.

• 7:08Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, but I, so.

• 7:12Trevor Noah?

  You know, when I, when I look at what we're experiencing in, in the world today.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 7:17Trevor Noah?

  There's no denying that church and religion is responsible for a lot of, I mean, you lay, name, name it and label it, right? Pain, the conflict, what, what, what, what, what, what, right?

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Birth control.

• 7:26Trevor Noah?

  You name it, whatever. But when I look at what people's lives have become. I can't help but wonder how much worse it's gonna get when church falls away. So go to any thriving European country.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 7:41Trevor Noah?

  Church is gone now. When I was in the Netherlands, all the churches that used to be churches are now.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  The A B N B's now.

• 7:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they've just turned into other things.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Really?

• 7:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they've, they've, they've, it's like, there's a restaurant or this is a something, it's just, it's not a church.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  So cathedrals are gone.

• 7:54Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, it's all, it's not a church. Churches are dying. In fact, funny enough, in the U S. Um, you know that story, the, you know, when Trump was saying like, eh, the Haitians, they're eating dogs, they're eating cats, blah, blah, blah, that whole thing. They, so they went to that part of Ohio and they interviewed people. And not only were they saying that the Haitian immigrants have revitalized the local economy. They, they went to the church and then the pastor said the church was about to die. He said the church was dead and now because of the Haitians, the church is a thing again and it exists. And they come there and they use it and there's a congregation and now the church makes money and they can be a community hub again. Like it's, so tha- that's why I say I'm conflicted when it comes to church. Cause I think it's easy for us to, to dismiss things in general in life. Like we always wanna say, good, bad.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:40Trevor Noah?

  But to your point, I can't think of.

• 8:43Trevor Noah?

  I can't think of a place that is responsible for more community and connection than a church. Because a church, you didn't need money to come to it. As we live in a world where more and more clubs are predetermined, you know, like race, class, all these things. Religion was one of the few things where you could opt in. You could walk in off the street and say, I wanna be part of your club. And the person would be like, yeah, you're part of the club, you know? Like, where do people connect for free with other humans?

• 9:10Speaker 02

  On the internet.

• 9:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but that's not connecting.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  A hundred percent is connecting.

• 9:14Trevor Noah?

  Brother, it's not connecting.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  You know how you mentioned?

• 9:16Trevor Noah?

  Gee, that's not connecting. You think the internet is connecting?

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:21Trevor Noah?

  Okay, what level of connection?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  You know how many times I've spoken to you on WhatsApp? Which is five red airtime.

• 9:27Trevor Noah?

  But imagine if we met on WhatsApp. It wouldn't be the same. No, I'm saying if we met on WhatsApp.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  But we have a couple of times.

• 9:33Trevor Noah?

  No man met, I'm saying if our initial.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  First met on WhatsApp.

• 9:35Trevor Noah?

  Our initial introduction as human beings was on WhatsApp, it wouldn't be the same.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  This would be a video call right now if we had met on WhatsApp.

• 9:42Trevor Noah?

  This guy.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  I think where religion and church is concerned, and I hear your point about it almost feels like as humans, we need structure.

• 9:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  And I remember days when my parents were not at home. Well, my dad was always not at home. But when my mom was not at home. I would have the most amount of fun. When I was the youngest, I used to think I need this woman here. But as soon as she said, there's food in the fridge, you know where the TV remote is, have a good time. And I'm gonna be gone for eight hours. I was like, can you leave sooner, the overtime there? Because in my world, that's when I realized I don't actually need someone to tell me what to do. I learned that very early. So some people need structure and some people don't. But I think also people are deep and steeped in religion, have abdicated their responsibility to be good people to someone else, to a higher power. So when they go to a pastor.

• 10:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Uh, when they go to their reverend and when they speak to God on their behalf. They feel like they don't have to be good people. They can always ask for forgiveness. But I feel like if people who go to church took that same mentality that they have for that hour and a half at church. And actually spread it around in real life every day, day to day, the world would be a better place. Cause I think love should be preached more than religion. I don't think someone should tell us. Jesus died in the cross for all of us to be here and then ends there.

• 11:02Trevor Noah?

  Uh, you, uh, look, I don't think you're wrong.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 11:04Trevor Noah?

  But stories help.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 11:07Trevor Noah?

  Like stories just help.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 11:09Trevor Noah?

  So if you say to somebody. Sacrifice is the most powerful thing you can do. Someone's like, okay, what do you mean by that? I think there's something really powerful in someone saying, hey, man. This stranger that you don't know died for you and your sins. There's a deep gratitude that comes with that.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the Bible is, is a big book of suffering.

• 11:28Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  It's always someone.

• 11:29Trevor Noah?

  Life is a big book of suffering.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  You see, so it's all about, someone did something and then found redemption. Someone did something and then found redemption.

• 11:35Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  There's never someone just having a good time.

• 11:37Trevor Noah?

  There's lots of people having a good time in the Bible.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Who Lot's wife turned into salt. Job who was sold.

• 11:41Trevor Noah?

  She looked back.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Job whose.

• 11:42Trevor Noah?

  She looked back.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Whose investments were tarnished and then he had to, who, show me one person in the Bible who had a good time.

• 11:48Trevor Noah?

  Who was someone?

• 11:48Speaker 02

  People were in the bellies of the whale. People were kicked out of Eden. Someone was asked.

• 11:53Trevor Noah?

  They were having a good time before they were kicked out of Eden.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. In my, somewhere, someone had to go, it's me, eh?

• 11:58Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but okay. So what are you saying? You want the Bible to? Show me then a TV show where nobody suffers.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but where?

• 12:03Trevor Noah?

  This is, this is entertainment.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  But where are the good times in the Bible?

• 12:06Trevor Noah?

  No, there's lots of good times.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Where?

• 12:09Trevor Noah?

  There's lots of good times. There's lots of good times. King David had good times.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Until what happened?

• 12:14Trevor Noah?

  Uh, until he died.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  What did King David do?

• 12:17Trevor Noah?

  Well, I mean, he killed Goliath. That was his journey of becoming David.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 12:21Trevor Noah?

  The, the king.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Then he was a white, was a wise king.

• 12:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes, he was a wise king, but then he also, he was the one who killed the guy's wa- uh, the woman's husband, right? So he was having a good time.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  To war and put him in the artillery.

• 12:33Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but he was having a good time. But he was having.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  But was the wife having a good time? What, did the husband have a good time? Did the fa- extended family?

• 12:40Trevor Noah?

  Eugene.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  The funeral cover.

• 12:42Trevor Noah?

  So, okay, now let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Which TV show has people having a good time?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  The Apprentice. No, I'm joking.

• 12:49Trevor Noah?

  No, but seriously, which TV show? I hear what you're saying, but I mean, like, if you're telling stories, there is no story that is worth listening to if it's just like, I went there, what I wanted to happen, happened.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:00Trevor Noah?

  And then I came back and everything is great. That's not a story.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  So then every sermon in church, obviously, they're picking from this book and they decide, maybe we are gonna preach about Job.

• 13:08Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  There's gonna be how Job suffered and then how is you suffering right now and how you can end your own suffering by doing what? By praying it away.

• 13:15Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Cause Job did not pray away.

• 13:17Trevor Noah?

  So I feel like.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  God said to him, who are you to question me?

• 13:20Trevor Noah?

  But I feel like here what's happening is.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  And he was like, yeah.

• 13:22Trevor Noah?

  I feel like you're trying to get me now to defend religion.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  No, no, no, not at all.

• 13:25Trevor Noah?

  But I, but I'm not.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Get you to defend the characters.

• 13:28Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  In the, in the, in the great book of Oz. I mean.

• 13:31Trevor Noah?

  So what I'm, but it's fine. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter what the book is.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:35Trevor Noah?

  Even if we talk about the Wizard of Oz, right? I don't need.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  No, but really.

• 13:42Trevor Noah?

  I don't need, I don't need Dorothy to be real.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:44Trevor Noah?

  I don't need the Tin Man to be real.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:46Trevor Noah?

  I don't need the Lion to be. But these are the concepts that stick with me.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Witch of the West.

• 13:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, if, if someone wrote me a textbook about courage, about like decency, about like, ah, then what? But you remember it when it's a story. You connect to it differently. You understand it. Dorothy goes on a journey. You get what I'm saying? Like, all of these characters go on a journey. And so I think, I hear what you're saying and I agree. In a perfect world, everyone would be able to do for themselves what they require another to do for them. But I don't think that's fundamentally what makes us human. I think humans need that. So that you as Eugene may not need somebody to tell you what to do. Maybe in one or some aspects of your life.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Yes, not, not in all.

• 14:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but then there'll be some places where you find there's a deep reward that comes from somebody guiding you. And that, that for me is the good of churches. So like when a church, when a church is run well.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:36Trevor Noah?

  When a church is not like.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  As a leader.

• 14:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, when a church is not like the minister having a private jet and the congregation starving. I'm saying when a church is run well, it really just is a community center where people come together. They share like an idea of problems. They talk about how there's something on the other side.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Group counselling.

• 14:54Trevor Noah?

  But yeah, it's group counselling.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's group counselling.

• 14:56Trevor Noah?

  So why are you being so difficult when you know what it is?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  I think it's a podcast.

• 14:59Trevor Noah?

  When, no? You see what you just did now? You just did the bible to me.

• 15:06Trevor Noah?

  You could have just come in and made it good times, but you brought suffering, you brought strife, you brought pain.

• 15:13Trevor Noah?

  Why did you do that?

• 15:18Speaker 02

  My life trumped my thirst.

• 15:20Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  I wanted to do them both at the same time.

• 15:24Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 15:29Trevor Noah?

  Oh, my sunburn.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  That's what you get.

• 15:33Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man. Yo, I'm burnt, eh?

• 15:35Speaker 02

  What were you doing?

• 15:36Trevor Noah?

  I forgot that I could get this burnt.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  What were you?

• 15:38Trevor Noah?

  I was playing pickleball.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Any difference between pickleball and paddle? Because I've heard you speak. You and I went to go play paddleball for the first time.

• 15:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, paddleball.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  And I whacked myself in the face.

• 15:47Trevor Noah?

  That's the problem with paddleball, is people hit themselves. So, okay.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a thing, and?

• 15:50Trevor Noah?

  So, yeah, it is.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Why didn't you tell me this that day?

• 15:51Trevor Noah?

  I didn't know until you started. You were the first person who let me know this was a trend.

• 15:57Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean? So, paddleball is squash mixed with tennis. And then pickleball, I would say, is table tennis mixed with tennis.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  So, is the racket smaller?

• 16:08Trevor Noah?

  No, the racket is just different. It's like a flat paddle type thing. It's like a piece of polycarbonate or something, I don't know.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  It's like a big table tennis. Also, that's where the similarities come in.

• 16:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I would say that.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  And the ball.

• 16:19Trevor Noah?

  And the ball.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  And the ball.

• 16:20Trevor Noah?

  Like the way it sounds, the way it moves.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  It sounds?

• 16:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because it does like a.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. So, when it hits the?

• 16:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but then paddle has more of like a.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:32Trevor Noah?

  By the way, if you want to buy my new album, Sounds of Racket Sports, you can follow, you can find the link in the description.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Were you playing pickleball?

• 16:43Trevor Noah?

  So, we were playing. The only time that people could come together with their schedules was at like ten, eleven. And then the UV index was ten. I just learned about UV indexes, by the way.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:54Trevor Noah?

  So, the UV index was ten.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Was ten?

• 16:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And then I just got like a burn around my, you know?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  So, the people that you were playing with, they were only free at around ten in the morning?

• 17:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it just happened to be. Normally, we play like when the sun is setting.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  To all of your friends that you play pickleball with have jobs.

• 17:12Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  What do they do? What's the?

• 17:15Trevor Noah?

  You want everyone's job.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  The one who are there at pickleball.

• 17:18Trevor Noah?

  There's a lot of people. You want everyone's jobs.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Benningai.

• 17:20Trevor Noah?

  Someone works in marketing, another person works in, I don't know, the finance industry, another person's unemployed, another person works in advertising, another person works in, I don't know, trading or something. Another person works on radio, another person is a lawyer, how far must I go with this?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Benningai, how many were you? Ten or so?

• 17:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, maybe, yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  So you all coordinated those.

• 17:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you must come and join. You'd love it.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  I know.

• 17:49Trevor Noah?

  You'd love it.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Do you find it weird when you are hanging around with, because you know how we grew up. It's not like after we finished metric, grade twelve.

• 17:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  It's not like we went to university and started a degree and then we went into the job market and gained experience. When you look at the friends that you have, let's say, the group that you're playing pickleball with and you like, now you're a lawyer, advertising, whatever.

• 18:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  They've put in years into this career that they have and they're now asking someone, can I not be around, can I play ten, so say, with my friend and do fun things which they actually really do enjoy. Do you, do you look at your friends? Because it happens to me when I still used to have friends with jobs. And I'd look at them and I'd go, I hack the system because I, I, I don't understand how they do it. When you hang out with them, how do you pretend to be normal? Because in that situation, you are not normal. You could have done this at six in the morning.

• 18:40Trevor Noah?

  But we're, we're all normal.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  John, because.

• 18:43Trevor Noah?

  Okay, I, I think of it this way. I know what you mean, but I think of it.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Please tell the audience how, you know how I mean it.

• 18:48Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Because I don't wanna be the only guy who said it.

• 18:51Trevor Noah?

  No, because.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Because we all know.

• 18:52Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but what.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  When you're with friends with jobs, when they start talking about their orders, you're like, hey. Or contract renewals, you're like, eh eh eh eh, smoothie.

• 19:01Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so on the one side.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:04Trevor Noah?

  Being a comedian or being in any type of career where there is no boss slash job slash firing and hiring slash

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:14Trevor Noah?

  Is weird because you're right, there's nothing that forces you to go somewhere per se. And there's also nothing that guarantees you anything per se. So there's no payday when you work in comedy. There's no, oh, it's that time of the month.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  That's a guarantee.

• 19:26Trevor Noah?

  No, but what I mean is there is none and there is like it's when is it coming, when is it not coming? How is it coming? How is it not? Right? But I don't know, if you think of you as being the business in a weird way, you do become more normal. I think when I meet, when I meet people who run their own businesses or their own little companies or their own whatever thing.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:45Trevor Noah?

  We feel the same because you work as much as you want to work. And then your work is generally directly tied to, you know, how much money you make generally.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  But just like me, you have friends that are in business and then you have friends that are employed.

• 20:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Do you feel like you're code switch when you're with the two? What's the difference between the two?

• 20:04Trevor Noah?

  No, actually, you know what? I think one of the, one of the things that freed me the most was the more I spent time with professionals, the more I realized how much.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  You mean they're employed?

• 20:13Trevor Noah?

  No, professionals, like, you know, like I studied law and I studied accounting and I studied like those kinds of people. The more I realized that most people are just winging it in life.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:22Trevor Noah?

  Genuinely.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:23Trevor Noah?

  Genuinely, genuinely, genuinely. I think one of the worst things that ever happened to me in life is I've gotten to meet like some world leaders. Where I go like, oh, boy, we're in trouble in the world. Because we assume that most people's positions come with a certain aptitude and expertise. That that's applicable to everything. But we do, most people, right?

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely, you're right.

• 20:45Trevor Noah?

  Like Elon Musk is a good example. Elon Musk is the richest man in the world now, like doubling, you know, what is it like 400 million or whatever now these days? Next, the next person is 200 million. So like Elon, yeah, no, sorry, 400 billion. Did I say million? Ah, okay.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  See this thinking small of yours. And I wonder about these things when we are sitting.

• 21:08Trevor Noah?

  So Elon Musk, because of that,

• 21:13Trevor Noah?

  just like wanders into every space and is given the full latitude where nobody questions anything. So you know, it's funny, coming back to the Bible, actually. One thing I appreciate about the Bible is that if you read it properly, it does show you the complexity of the human being.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:30Trevor Noah?

  Right? So in the Bible, there are good people who then go on to do terrible things and live like a horrible life, you know, in the end. There are bad people who do have a good moment and, and but you, you see humanity in its full complexity is what I find. If you like, read the Bible, right? So even the person that you go is a good guy. You go like, oh, this is a good person. Read the Bible and you're gonna see there's parts of the story where like they did what with their son?

• 21:57Trevor Noah?

  They did what to their mom? They did what to their neighbor? They did, then you're like, damn, I don't know if I can. I mean, I guess King David was good, but also how could he do this? Right? And I think some of that thinking is necessary for the world.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  So when you, when you're with your friends with normal jobs and then you're playing pickleball and then they tell you, I have to go pick up someone at one. Or when they say, hey, my boss is there.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Do you look away?

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Do you, when they, when they look at a kind of car park and go, yeah, that's nice. Is there a part of you that joins into? Yeah, do you, do you look at them and go, yeah, that's also nice? But because when you're not saying it's nice because you can't afford it or you can't buy it or you can't have it. You probably driven it and enjoyed it. So I'm trying to figure out what, what I'm trying to figure out.

• 22:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Because that's what I struggled with. I'm saying when people with normal job, like now when we're coming here.

• 22:53Trevor Noah?

  By the way, what jobs have you had in your life?

• 22:55Speaker 02

  I worked at a car park.

• 22:57Trevor Noah?

  Doing what at a car park?

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Um, there was like, uh, before there were pay as you go tickets. I introduced that system with my friends, actually, at the mall in Pretoria. So there used to be a booth at the end, at the exit and entrance of every car park. You come in, there's a boom, you come out, there's a booth. So I used to take the ticket and go.

• 23:13Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn. Was this your first job?

• 23:15Speaker 02

  First, first job, yeah, when I was sixteen. So that's what I did on weekends and school holidays.

• 23:20Trevor Noah?

  They give you the ticket they pay.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  And then I put it in the till.

• 23:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then the machine says sixteen rand.

• 23:25Trevor Noah?

  How did you feel when you saw your first automatic boom machine thing?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Uh, the pay, the pay on foot tickets.

• 23:32Trevor Noah?

  No, yeah, when people could do it without you.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was happy.

• 23:34Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I was in Metrick at the time. Then I was like, I don't need you, I'm out. And I left.

• 23:41Trevor Noah?

  Oh.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  But I was happy.

• 23:42Trevor Noah?

  So there wasn't a part of you that was like, ah, they took our jobs?

• 23:45Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 23:45Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  I was like, but one thing I always, the one, the one, the one thing that changed my life, because I worked, I, I started the car park at the mall. And then when I reached Metrick, uh, I worked inside the mall.

• 23:58Trevor Noah?

  What did you do in the mall?

• 23:59Speaker 02

  I worked at a C D store when those things still existed.

• 24:02Trevor Noah?

  C D like music?

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:03Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  And then.

• 24:04Trevor Noah?

  All your jobs are defunct.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I also had.

• 24:06Trevor Noah?

  You're basically like the Grim Reaper of jobs.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Yes, when I come in the industry.

• 24:09Trevor Noah?

  When you see Eugene coming to the job.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:10Trevor Noah?

  You must know it's over, eh? I'm even warning you in the future, if you see Eugene show up and be like, hey guys, uh, I'm now gonna be working, you're like, ah. This industry's on its way out, because you just went for like defunct job after defunct job.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Yes, and another defunct job, I worked at C N A. And my job was to mend the magazine counter.

• 24:31Trevor Noah?

  Oh.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  And then my job was to go there and tell people who are on dates while they're waiting for the movies to start to stop paging through the magazine. I was go.

• 24:40Trevor Noah?

  Ah, you were one of those guys.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  And then they were like, muah. And then one day I caught this guy.

• 24:44Trevor Noah?

  You were one of those guys who was like, you're not allowed to read.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Yes, and then he was like, I was like, no, but you're not allowed to read the magazine. He was like, but if, but if I go to another magazine, I was like, technically.

• 24:55Trevor Noah?

  You caught me. Elon.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  So that's what I did as well. Um, so, but the one day that changed my life is I met, I met the guy that owned Brooklyn Mall. A guy called Mister Watson.

• 25:10Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  He used to come there once a week, he drove a Jaguar. His driver drove a Jaguar and he would sit at the back and his wife would be in a mink coat living in the summer. And then one day when they're entering the new system of pay on foot, and then he happened to be the guy next in line, and then I helped his driver. And then I saw him and I remembered, I've seen this guy so many times. Then he asked me what my name was and I told him, asked me how old I am, I said, yeah.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  He's like, so you do this every day? I'm like, no, no, not every day, only on holidays and, and weekends. And I said, what do you do? The, the destiny, my manager was behind me going.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  And then he said, no, I business, but I live and I do things and I blah, blah, blah. Then I said, yeah, I wanna do what you do. I wanna come to the mall during the week for no reason. Then he said, if you want it, you can do it.

• 25:57Trevor Noah?

  I hated when rich people say that.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  And then I only found out later in life when I worked inside the mall that that was him. Cause now he was inside the mall. Remember I was in the parking lot when I first met him? Now I've got a job inside the mall. Then I met him and everyone was just, the shop owners were always happy to see him. The restaurateurs were always happy to see him. Then there's the guy that owned the mall. And I think that was my first real realization of what being loved and being powerful, that combination, what it meant. He was a very powerful man.

• 26:22Trevor Noah?

  But he was loved.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  People loved him. And I think there was a side of him that also. Yeah, that he also loved them because he didn't have to be there. And that was a principle I took throughout my life. And I've spoken to you about this before. I said, I only do things that I love. I only hang out with people that I like. I don't go out to force a lesson of pain on myself and try to test how far my patience can go with something I don't enjoy.

• 26:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  So I'm only at places where I feel I'm wanted. I'm also at places where I feel like I want to be. And that was only from that interaction twice with this man who I've never met again.

• 26:56Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  So I.

• 26:58Trevor Noah?

  I like that you, and not in like a dismissive way.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  No, absolutely.

• 27:01Trevor Noah?

  But I love that you formed such a positive idea around this human being, knowing the little that you did.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:09Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yes. That's what I wanted to take away from him.

• 27:11Trevor Noah?

  No, but I'm saying like that's a beautiful thing.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 27:14Trevor Noah?

  Cause this person you met, you met them twice?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:18Trevor Noah?

  And that's what you took from them?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  That's all I took from them. Cause I realized how much power there was. Cause also I started seeing it around. Cause obviously if you work in a CD store, people come there to come buy music, but also to buy time. So they're hanging around. So when I would see people at the mall at eleven in the morning, I would like, what do you do? That allows you to be at the mall at eleven? I want to do that. So it became my quest to come to interview people while they're, they're buying their CDs or listening to.

• 27:42Trevor Noah?

  What was it about the mall that you were so?

• 27:45Speaker 02

  It's abundant.

• 27:46Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Everything is there. You don't go to the mall to window shop. People go to the mall to look at things that they like and they can just buy them or they just go to hang out with people that they like. A mall was a gathering place. It was obviously, obviously twenty years ago.

• 28:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. Are you sad that malls are dying now?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Um, to an extent, yeah, I I go to malls. I like going to malls. I like walking at malls. I go to Mall of Africa all the time. When I go to a new place, I go to a mall. Just in America, I haven't gotten a chance to go to, because I like Central Park more so. I walk around and go to churches, but I like malls. I I like the feeling of abundance. I think that was my first glimpse of it. I, when I was working at the mall, I knew at the end of the month what I wanted to do with my money.

• 28:26Trevor Noah?

  Go to the mall.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  No, no, I want things I'd I'd see.

• 28:30Trevor Noah?

  At the mall.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I knew what sneakers I wanted. I knew what headphones I was gonna buy with my money. I I always enjoyed the feeling of abundance, but also it taught me a certain discipline in life that just because it's there doesn't mean you must take it.

• 28:42Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Sometimes you just have to wait. Sometimes you can just walk past it. Sometimes the idea of being around it is even better than owning it. I could go into a a sound system store and just listen and just have a good time. I didn't have to take it home.

• 28:53Trevor Noah?

  Hmm, and then they would come and say, sir, please, please, you can't be listening, please, please. Do you remember me? I was reading magazines in your store and remember what you told me.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:03Trevor Noah?

  Do you think that came from how you grew up? Like, what what was it about about abundance that that connected with you in that way? Because you didn't grow up with abundance.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  As cheesy as that sounds, it was my my mom. My mom used to, she she was a nurse, she's retired now. She had four kids. I was the third one. What she would do every month end was she would come to school and pick us up, pick one up. So we had a roster. So every month end, one child gets a turn to go to town with her.

• 29:31Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  But she made a point to come before break at school, go to the principal's office.

• 29:36Trevor Noah?

  Did your mom have a car?

• 29:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 29:38Trevor Noah?

  Okay, that, no, because I was wondering why one. I was like, damn, this is a crazy system. Okay, no, so you're getting in a taxi?

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:43Trevor Noah?

  That's why she has to pick one.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  No, no, also, it's what's gonna happen in town when we get there.

• 29:49Trevor Noah?

  What's gonna happen?

• 29:50Speaker 02

  You'll see.

• 29:50Trevor Noah?

  Okay, sorry.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  And then she would come to school and then talk to the principal and then I'd be like, there she is. Then she would come to my class.

• 29:55Trevor Noah?

  Would you know who she's coming to fetch?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Of course, it's me.

• 29:58Trevor Noah?

  No, but you said there's a roster and you rotate.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  We're not at the same school at the same time.

• 30:01Trevor Noah?

  Oh, okay, okay, got it, got it, got it.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  So she'd come.

• 30:03Trevor Noah?

  I thought your mom like was doing like a lottery system.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 30:05Trevor Noah?

  You're all at the same school and then your mom would walk in.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  You just see her head pass those big windows at school, you're like, and then they were like, Eugene, your mom is here. Then I'd be like, oh, man, my mom. Take my backpack and we're out. And then we would get, then we'd high five each other in the passage there, then we'd get in a taxi and then off we go to town. Then when we go to town, the first thing she did was we go to the park. Then we sit at the park and then she'd say, think of anything that you want, that you want us to buy today. Think of anything that you want. Then I'd be like, bye. Yes, dear, yeah, I want that one. Beg, ninja title. Yeah, I want that. Okay, I'm done. So you're done, sharp. Then we'd go and buy all the things that I wanted. And then I realized how many things I passed going to the things that I wanted that were insignificant at that point.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Then you buy all the things you want. And then now we're doing groceries. Now we get to the nuts and bolts of it. Now she buys groceries for the whole house. And then what she used to do for all of us was she would buy a slab of chocolate for all of us and a tub of one liter ice cream for all of us. That was ours to do as we wanted. So that's what she did. She showed me abundance and my mom had a concept, when it's finished, it's finished. I've never struggled with loss, with loss of anything, especially finances. You've known, we've, we've done things with cars and had fun and made money and lost money and do whatever. I've never struggled with that concept at all because she taught me when it's there, it's there, when it's not, it's not. But as long as you're here, you can always make it again. But just like you pass the things that you didn't want at the store to go to the things that you wanted, those things will always be there.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  So I've, I've learned abundance from her and what she would do is she would take the rest of the month's money and give it to you. And then say, when, when someone needs something, they're gonna come fetch it from you. So you understand that it's there, but it's there to be used. So the value of money for us was it buys bread, it's, it's a taxi ride for someone, it's a school thing that popped up out of nowhere. It's this, it's that, someone coming to borrow money from the house, it's that. So the, the value of money was never to look at it as a thing that exists to make you feel good. It was there to help facilitate things that just might come up in life. Some things are small, you end up with more money. Some things are big, you end up with less money, but it was there. So she would go, if it was there when it was needed, it did its job.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  So I look at life like that and I'm glad for those lessons in life because I've had a chance to look around. And that's why I was asking you about, um, friends with employment. I was not making fun of them at all. Cause I have friends like that as well who would say, I have a day off. A friend of mine on our way here called me, but I didn't answer his phone, but he sent me a text before, he's saying, do you wanna go riding the mountain tomorrow because I'm day off?

• 32:42Speaker 02

  But I'm like, my life doesn't work like that. I can go ride anything. But if you have to think of it like that, then it means your world is centered like that.

• 32:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I think I think both of them come with pros and cons.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  No, absolutely.

• 32:53Trevor Noah?

  So as much as you can say your life, you don't require a day off to do something.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:01Trevor Noah?

  You you but the the gift and the curse of it is that like, freedom is hard work. I've experienced this, let's say on like on a really flippant level.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 33:12Trevor Noah?

  If I go on a vacation.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 33:14Trevor Noah?

  And everything is planned, I have a great time.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 33:17Trevor Noah?

  I know where I'm supposed to go. I know what time I have to be there. I'll go to the museum, then I go to this, then I go to. I'm having a great time. I'm like, oh, wow, because I'm not thinking, I'm not. And when you're not thinking, you don't make the wrong choice. When you don't make the wrong choice, you don't have regret, you don't feel, there's none of that. You don't go, did I do it or did I not do it? Right?

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:34Trevor Noah?

  And I think there's a little bit of that when you are employed versus if you are like doing your own thing.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 33:40Trevor Noah?

  Is that when you are employed, there's a certain level of someone's telling you what you have to do on what day, by what time.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 33:48Trevor Noah?

  And that's liberating in many ways. It's like having a personal trainer. It's liberating. Have you ever walked into a gym and just looked at the weights?

• 33:55Speaker 02

  I don't go to gym.

• 33:56Trevor Noah?

  You've but you've never walked into a gym?

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Gym is kindergarten for people with regrets.

• 34:03Trevor Noah?

  Is that a no or a yes?

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:05Trevor Noah?

  You walked into a gym?

• 34:13Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man. So I I get what you're saying. Um, well, I did. I did. But I didn't know that thing about. I didn't know that about your mom.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:22Trevor Noah?

  Like, I I knew that I knew that vibe with your mom.

• 34:26Trevor Noah?

  It's funny. I'm trying to think of like how I process loss.

• 34:31Trevor Noah?

  Wait, so, okay, help me understand this. Are you saying that you are not loss averse? Or are you saying that when you experience loss, you like whatever?

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:39Trevor Noah?

  Both of them?

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I feel like my my upbringing, my conditioning, and also the way I view life has made me survive loss better. I I have things that I love that I don't use.

• 34:55Trevor Noah?

  You have things that you love that you don't use.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:57Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  I have things that I love that I have lost.

• 35:00Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Both of those things are not with me currently, or I can choose not to be using them or with them. Does it make sense?

• 35:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, okay.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  So I walk past my bike all the time in the morning. I choose.

• 35:11Trevor Noah?

  Your motorbike?

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:12Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  I choose. And sometimes I can go four months without riding the one and but it's there. But if I wake up one day and it's no longer there.

• 35:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  The feeling of it not being there won't be horrible to me.

• 35:25Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Because I deal with it all the time. I look at my daughter, she turns sixteen, now started grade eleven.

• 35:31Trevor Noah?

  Daughter's sixteen now?

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yes, she's turning seventeen in September.

• 35:33Trevor Noah?

  Oh, you know, this is probably one of the reasons I don't want kids. They just make time move, man.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:38Trevor Noah?

  The only time I feel like time has moved.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:40Trevor Noah?

  Is when I think of how old people's children are. Dude, your daughter to me is still like a five-year-old.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Yes. Cause you met me a year before she was born.

• 35:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:54Trevor Noah?

  So to me, she's still.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that five-year-old that you saw.

• 35:56Trevor Noah?

  Smart, five-year-old.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:58Trevor Noah?

  Sixteen.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, sixteen. So she, I look at her and I look at how she thinks and how she processes things. And she's taught me that letting go is actually the best thing you can do. She, she's been with me obviously forever.

• 36:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  And we've lived in different places and different houses and she's at different rooms. And she's changed schools two, three times in her life. But the way she moves around the universe amazes me all the time. She looks at life as something that's going to happen anyway.

• 36:25Trevor Noah?

  She doesn't. She looks at life as something that's gonna happen.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, she doesn't look at it as a thing that's gonna happen if she does something.

• 36:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, okay, I understand what you mean.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  So I, I, I've started to look at life like that. When I see something new and exciting, I move towards it. When I was at the parking lot, I walked around cars because I love cars. That was the best part of my job. When I went into the mall, I faced abundance. When it happened once a month when I was young, or once after four months when my mom takes me to town. Now it happened every day. When I started doing comedy, I realized you can hang out with your friends and laugh all the time. We had more fun offstage than onstage. We would travel and then someone pays for it. You sleep in a hotel and someone pays for it. And then people would pay to hear me talk for fifteen minutes and I would go back and I would still have fun and time with my friends and I.

• 37:07Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  So all of my jobs and my choices were all linked to my passions. I've never had a job I hated. I've never had a job that landed me in places I didn't wanna be in. I've been fortunate in that way. I'm abundant in so many. Our friendship led me to so much abundance. I got to experience being in a private jet with you. I got to experience in a penthouse and man, I got to experience those things through you, through our friendship and our love for comedy and our pure natural gift. That was just to stand in front of people and have a good time. So when I close my checking account every night, that's what I do. I look at the things and the people that I love. And I go, did they bring me closer to my passions and my, my joy and things that I would have never come close to? Had I not had these things and I go, your job is done.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  So it's not different from the world of cash my mom had. And then she'll say, if someone comes and needs something, take it from there. Don't ask too many questions. They came because there's a need, but they know that you have it. So I send everyone to you and I say, he has it, go get it.

• 38:06Trevor Noah?

  Interesting lesson to learn.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  So I, I choose to do that.

• 38:10Trevor Noah?

  We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break.

• 38:15Speaker 01

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• 38:39Speaker 03

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• 39:09Speaker 04

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• 40:00Trevor Noah?

  I know that I'm loss averse.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:04Trevor Noah?

  You know, but I think I'm also lucky that I haven't lost much in life. Like, I realized this when when my grandmother died.

• 40:11Trevor Noah?

  So it was a crazy realization.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:13Trevor Noah?

  I've never lost a loved one.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  It was a huge loss.

• 40:15Trevor Noah?

  Like, I've genuinely never lost a loved one.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:18Trevor Noah?

  And then I started thinking differently about everyone in my life who has. Cause I was like, damn, this is. For me, it was even like a it felt like a slither of a feeling that another human being could have. Because my grandmother died at the age of ninety six, ninety six, ninety seven.

• 40:34Trevor Noah?

  So you know what I mean? In a weird way, I wasn't around for all of it, but like you have like a hundred years to prepare. Like, we always think of hundred as this magical number, but I was like, we knew she was going. And she was healthy till the day she died, died in her sleep, the way you dream of going. Peacefully, gone, go to bed, good night, everybody, see you tomorrow. Ha ha, jokes on you, there's no tomorrow. She was gone, you know what I mean? But the feeling that I had was like, I couldn't believe what I was experiencing, like the grief, the loss, the all of that. So are you saying that you don't have that experience? You don't have that feeling?

• 41:07Speaker 02

  I do, but I process it quicker. Cause I know it was gonna happen anyway. So it's my choice to live in it. And so when it happens, I I I I immerse myself in the feeling and then let the feeling pass through me. So what I used to do before, I would I would let the things get stored in me. I had I had this huge anxiety when I was growing up of what's gonna happen to me after school. And it ruined most of my high school life.

• 41:30Trevor Noah?

  Literally, literally after school, like every, every day you go, what's happening when, when the bell rings today?

• 41:34Speaker 02

  No, when school finishes.

• 41:36Trevor Noah?

  Oh, like school as a concept, okay.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  When high school finishes.

• 41:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, when high school is done.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  And I look back and I have these gaps in my memory of what fun I could have had in high school had I not had that worry. If someone had a crystal ball to show me how my life would have turned out, I would have enjoyed every moment of that school. It was the best time I've ever had, but I was too concerned, you know, I was, was worried about what's gonna happen. Cause in my world, people who did well were people who were, who were educated, who were, who were successful, you know, who studied something and they've gotten a job. So my chances were lower and lower and lower as I saw myself getting to grade eleven. School that I, exactly. And then I knew that my chances of being successful.

• 42:13Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  So when I was in a car park, I was like, I can be happy by proxy.

• 42:18Trevor Noah?

  Huh.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  I'm here, I'm, I'm, I'm looking at these fancy cars, I'm, I'm around them all day long and I get paid to be here. I love music, I listen to music and then I get paid to be here, I walk around the mall, I get paid to be here, I do comedy, I get paid to do this. I do, I, I chose a path, it was either do the worrying and die or do the what I love and just live. But I chose that because it was my only option. I had to learn the lessons and remember them from my mom. Then I just carried them through.

• 42:46Trevor Noah?

  So you're able to apply that to inanimate and.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:50Trevor Noah?

  animate objects.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:51Trevor Noah?

  So the loss of anything and anyone.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:54Trevor Noah?

  Do you process it the same or is there a difference? Or give me an example of like something you've lost, like a thing that you loved versus a person that you've loved. And then I wanna understand like how you process it or is it the exact same way that you do it?

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Exact same way. Because remember, if I lose a watch that I loved.

• 43:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  And I wore every day, right?

• 43:16Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  It sentimental value as I remember the things that I did to get the watch.

• 43:21Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  I remember the place that I wore the watch in, those memories are with me. So the watch is with me because I'd never wore it to my sleep, I never wore it to the shower. So the watch is with me. When my son passed away, I also realized in the three months, I spent the most amount of time with him. Eh, to even the day before he passed away, it was just the two of us for a few hours. The last picture I took was when we were just together. In a room.

• 43:47Trevor Noah?

  How old was he when he passed, when he passed away? Damn.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  So, in, in, when I think of that loss, whether it's a watch or a loved one, I think of, what do I miss about not having this person around? Grief is, is an extended phase of regret. Things that we never got to do.

• 44:05Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  With that person. I got to do all I could do at the time, at the time that he had.

• 44:09Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Had I been absent for three months and he passed away in three months, I would have been so distraught because I would have nothing to miss. But now I miss him, the person that he was, because I knew him. If I lose my watch, I miss my watch. I don't miss the things that the watch did for me. It's an object. It told time, another object can tell time.

• 44:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  If it was about her money, I can buy another one. But him, I, there's no more time that I could have extended with him. It ran its course. I'm not dealing with guilt of something I did wrong or something I could have done better. But I was going, I wish we could do more. But when I look at my daughter, I go, we can do more. She's here now.

• 44:47Trevor Noah?

  Oh, wow.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Right? If I look at a watch, I go, there is, there are more watches, I can go buy another one. But I can't cry for things that never happened.

• 44:55Trevor Noah?

  How, how do you think, how do you think that, like, affected your, how you are a father, with your daughter? After, after losing your son?

• 45:04Speaker 02

  She became my parent. We have this running joke, her and I, where I say, in, in our life before this one, she was my mom. And then now I get to pay her back. But it looks like she still has to do it again. She was just a happy person every time. She, I would look forward to the day she comes back from school. Then she would high five me and tell me all sorts of stories. She had no time for my sadness. Like, I would be like, whew, today is just like, let me tell you now. Then she would go on and on. Then it became my exercise to remember her friends' names. Cause now I didn't wanna be left behind in a story.

• 45:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  This person is, is laughing, she's, she's smiling. And she only met her brother the day he passed away at the hospital when he was certified dead.

• 45:43Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  So this kid who faced that, what I had, I had three months of seeing him because he was incubated, but he couldn't have contact because he was born too early. So obviously a child would have brought germs into the house. So he couldn't be in the, in the same room with her. So the only time he saw her was then. So I compared our losses.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  And in in retrospect, you must think of it this way, as a sibling, she would have had more time with him than I would have ever had as a parent.

• 46:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  He would have outlived me. So she has never had that three months with him, but I had. So what right did I have to wallow in self pity when all I could be doing now is telling her about how great this person was? Cause she's telling me about strangers at school and about how great they are. And here we are. And then she was there teaching me how to be strong. She was my mom again with that word of cash saying, yeah, spend it on things that matter. And if someone comes and asks for it, give it to them generously. Don't ask questions, just share. She was that person for me and she still is for me. When I was walking down now to come into the car, she was like, do you have your phone? And I was like, yes. You have something for your lips? Yes. Do you have a power bank? Yeah. So like fit check.

• 46:51Trevor Noah?

  There's a, there's a beautiful saying, I don't, I don't remember where I heard this. I think it, I think it was actually Esther Perel and we're having this conversation and we're talking about like children and life and everything. And she said, one of the most beautiful things ever, she said, one of the most underappreciated aspects of having a child is that it forces you to forget yourself.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Oh, that's deep.

• 47:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And I remember being like, well, wait, what do you mean? And she said, no, she said, you, you take for granted that until you are responsible for the life of another human being or another creature, really.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:27Trevor Noah?

  The only life you're responsible for is your own. And so you, you live the most selfish of existences, whether you like it or not.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:34Trevor Noah?

  I'm hungry, I'm tired, I'm sad, I'm happy. I want to do this. I do not want to do this. It's only when you introduce another human being or living being into your life that you're responsible for that you have to, if you are any type of decent person, you neglect that now.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  You forego it.

• 47:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you forego it. It's a better word. Yeah, you forego it. It's a different type of meaningful and it's like a, in a weird way, it's a stupid thing, but I think of people when they get dogs. It's pretty crazy.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  It's understandable. Yeah.

• 48:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because a person gets a dog. And then now they have to go and walk the dog. They have to go outside. They, they have to. But in a weird way, the have to pushes them out of themselves. So there's a day you didn't want to go for a walk. Now you're walking. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:16Trevor Noah?

  And, and, and I see that with people and their kids, especially people who have either learned the lesson or have had the opportunity to fully learn the lesson.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 48:25Trevor Noah?

  They they forget themselves and in a weird way then get to meet other versions of themselves that they forgot.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Life is about us meeting our teachers. Life does not have built in meaning. Life is meaningless. And you see that when you lock yourself in a room and do nothing. Everything else happened without you. Traffic happened, restaurants were open, until you get out the room and you interact with the world, then meaning happens. Then you walked a long distance, then you ate this great thing, then you played pickleball with your friends. So life has no built in meaning. We give it meaning. But what makes life interesting is we're here to learn lessons and we keep meeting our teachers along the way. And one of the reasons why I think our friendship, you and I, has endured so long, and it's actually almost the same age as my daughter's relationship is, is because of your childlike nature. You look at the world with wonder. You don't look at anything as impossible.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  I remember one time you and I were driving somewhere and we were stuck in traffic and you said, Eugene, and I said, yes, because that's how we talk to each other. He said, you know what we must do? And I said, what? He said, we must buy a plane.

• 49:27Trevor Noah?

  Ah, that sounds like me.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  I said, eh? He said, yes, we must buy a plane. And I was like, planes are expensive. He said, yeah, yeah, but they're small ones. You know, we can buy a Cessna. You know what we can do? If four comedians come together and we put a hundred, a hundred, a hundred, a hundred.

• 49:40Trevor Noah?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  If we need to go somewhere, then we can just fly the plane. Then I was like, but what if we need to go different? He said, yeah, then we'll book shows. Then we can all fly in together. We can fly in, fly out, then we'll make it home again. You're like, yeah. Then I was like, okay. There are many times that you and I did things.

• 49:56Trevor Noah?

  I mean, we never did, just for anyone listening, but this was because we were very far from even the idea of buying a plane.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  But fast forward thirteen years later.

• 50:03Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, I'm with you.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  You see what I'm saying? So you've always had that. The day you immigrated to America, I remember I was at your house. You said, come over. And then I came. Then we played Army of Two. And then you're like, oh, she, she have to go now. Then I was like, where are you going? You're like, I'm going to America.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Then I was like, is there a restaurant?

• 50:23Speaker 02

  He need, can I come too? What's going on? And you're like, no, no, I'm, ah, snap. Then you packed your bag, you switched off the thing and you're like, oh, you can have these games. I'm not gonna play them anymore. I was like, are you really leaving? You're like, yeah. Then I was like, but what time do you need to be there? Like, I need to be there thirty minutes ago.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Then there you were in grey tracksuit pants, you were gone. You you went to go start a new life and a new career elsewhere. And I always looked at you and I go, I I was telling a friend of mine, when you first started to become prominent in American culture.

• 50:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Or in the American space. I said, this guy would have been successful even though he was a plumber. It it comedy did not help him become successful. TV did not help him become successful.

• 51:04Trevor Noah?

  Thank you, man.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  With anything, he would have been fine because he just looks at things like a kid. He he looks and he goes tinkers, he opens at the bag and he touches this thing. With America, he was like, where's the most comedy clubs? Where's the most comedy? He narrowed it down to a place. Okay, how many shows can I do? Okay, how many people can I see? Okay, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many? You look at things like that. And I always look at your life and I go, if I was like you, I would have been where you are. If you were like me, you would have been where I am. The wonder and the beauty of how we are as two people is we are not alike. That's why you and I can sit and speak about everything but comedy. We speak about cars, we speak about life. So I'll always have time for a person who who looks at life like that.

• 51:43Trevor Noah?

  And I think we've both shared that. So it's funny, I think of, when I think of comedy.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 51:48Trevor Noah?

  And how we shared it.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 51:50Trevor Noah?

  It was the same thing. We both had a deep love for the idea of the, because what what what made comedy specifically unique at that time in South Africa was.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:00Trevor Noah?

  It wasn't a thing.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:01Trevor Noah?

  Like a thing thing.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:02Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean? If you said to anyone in South Africa, your parents, your friends, anyone, I'm gonna be a comedian, I'm gonna do comedy. People were like, what is that? Right? And there was like a few people, not even a generation, a few people, a few years ahead of us, who were doing it. You know, the David Gows and the John Flissmises and all these. But it wasn't like a a a long.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Wasn't a thing.

• 52:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it wasn't a thing. Wasn't, you know, a long historyed tradition.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 52:27Trevor Noah?

  So what I loved was, we were a ragtag group of enthusiasts. You know, like hobbyists.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 52:34Trevor Noah?

  That's what we were doing when we were doing comedy. Were these people standing in a field with homemade aeroplanes?

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 52:39Trevor Noah?

  And were throwing them and being like, how far can yours go?

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 52:41Trevor Noah?

  Ah, so what I've learned is if you turn the wings like this, and if, do you get what I'm saying? And it's funny because I think you have kept that more than anybody I know.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 52:51Trevor Noah?

  You might say I have childlike wonder. You are the most hobby obsessed person I know. I don't know anyone who's had more hobbies than you. Everything from trail riding motorbikes, racing, race bikes on a, on a, on a track, um, shooting guns at a range.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Started golf now.

• 53:13Trevor Noah?

  You started golf?

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:14Trevor Noah?

  Wow, there we go. Golf. Then you went through like a running phase, like you were doing like twenty kilometers, ten kilometers. Then you, I mean, now that I said out loud, I feel like you're turning into a white person. This has been a a long journey. I'm actually, only now that I'm saying it, like, looking at it, I'm like, wait a minute. Eugene.

• 53:39Trevor Noah?

  When I look at what you're doing. Oh, boy. No, but you, but you, yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  You and her taught me that. Adventure.

• 53:46Trevor Noah?

  That's what it is.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Go for it.

• 53:47Trevor Noah?

  That's what it is. You, you've always been the adventure person.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. You show me that all the time. When I see you doing something, I'm like, adventure does pay off, because you go on this wild, and you look at.

• 53:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but no, no, but where we're different though, is and this is why I admire you. Where we're different is you.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  It's an admiration contest.

• 54:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and we'll see who wins. You, you, um, I think one thing that's always inspired me about you.

• 54:08Speaker 05

  I'd like to exclude myself from that competition.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Ryan is out.

• 54:11Speaker 05

  There's no admiration. I hold firmly to you.

• 54:14Trevor Noah?

  And you know what, Ryan? That's what I love about you, is you don't need to compete with other people. That's why I admire you.

• 54:26Trevor Noah?

  And now it's time for today's self-care toolkit segment brought to you by Amazon. Whether it's delivering medication to your door with Amazon Pharmacy, or twenty-four seven virtual care with Amazon One Medical. Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful.

• 54:45Trevor Noah?

  Okay, can we talk about comfort food when you're sick? Because I feel like that's when logic leaves the building, all logic. Like, you'd think being sick would make you eat something mild and healthy. No, no, for some reason, when I'm under the weather, I'm like, you know what sounds good right now? A giant plate of fries and three different kinds of sauce. You mix the sauce and it confuses the disease. I don't know, there's something about being sick that makes your cravings totally unhinged. Maybe, maybe it's just me. And it's different for everyone. For some people, it's toast and tea, I've heard. Uh, for others, it's mac and cheese or pho and ice cream. Yes, I've actually heard that. Ice cream with pho while coughing. I think part of it is just nostalgia, you know?

• 55:30Trevor Noah?

  Maybe it's our brains wanting to feel better and food is memory. You know, that one soup your grandmother made or whatever your parents gave you as a kid when you stayed home from school. Maybe that's what it is. Psychological reward for sickness. So maybe it's not about the food making you better. Maybe it's just about making you feel better. And that's just as important. Mmm, so profound.

• 55:54Trevor Noah?

  Well, we hope you gave you some ideas for your self-care routine. Today's self-care toolkit segment was brought to you by Amazon. Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful.

• 56:11Trevor Noah?

  You've always inspired me and you've always reminded me to focus on being successful at living life. Which is something that I think sometimes we forget as people. Cause I've always been good at living work. You know what I mean? Like, I'm really good at that. Plumbing, electrician, you name it. There's literally, I remember someone once said to me, they're like, what would you do if you wouldn't do comedy? And I was like, I'm like, anything. I would do anything.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  You'd be great at it.

• 56:37Trevor Noah?

  Because I'm like, yeah, anything, something has to be done. You know, I remember my mom said to me one day.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Something has to be done.

• 56:44Trevor Noah?

  It's true, something has to be done.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 56:45Trevor Noah?

  My mom and I were driving, I don't know, from church or somewhere. It was probably from church. We only really drove to church together. But we're in the car and my mom said to me, she's like really angry and she's like, look, look at these. How can people be unemployed? And I was like, mom, what do you mean? How can people be unemployed? Sometimes, and then my mom said, there's always something to be done. My mom said to me, she said, you look in your life. She said, before you say there's nothing to be done, just go for a walk and look around you. There's something to be done. I was a teenager at this time, but I was like, mom, that's not true. Sometimes there's nothing. And then while we were driving, she said, okay, let's look on the street. What needs to be done? I was like, what do you mean? She's like, look at the street, what needs to be done? I was like, I don't know. And then she said, does that grass look like it's been cut?

• 57:30Trevor Noah?

  I was like, no. She's like, so clearly that needs to be done. She said, so if you go to that house and you say, let me cut your grass. And I say, yeah, but what if they don't pay me? She said, yeah, then you can still cut it, though.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Hmm, it will be done.

• 57:40Trevor Noah?

  It'll be done. And she said, then you'll go and you'll cut and you'll cut. And she said, eventually, eventually, somebody's gonna pay you to cut grass. She said, go and look for things to be done, because there's always something to be done. The phrase my mom hated, and I still like, I actually have to like, work on the opposite now is, whenever my mom, like my mom, the phrase she hated was, there's nothing to do.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:01Trevor Noah?

  I have nothing to do. She's like, ah, there's always something to be done. What do you mean?

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:05Trevor Noah?

  But what that meant was, it meant that I've always been completely comfortable in work, in the doing, but the doing in one specific place.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:17Trevor Noah?

  But you have always shown me, like, I mean, first time I rode like mountain bikes in South Africa was with you.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:28Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Yes, that day.

• 58:29Trevor Noah?

  Like, we, like, and I, and I think, funny enough, that's maybe one of the things that you blessed me with in comedy is, had I not met you, because we, we literally started comedy about a week apart.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  Hundred percent, in parallel universes.

• 58:41Trevor Noah?

  Literally.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  You were there that day and I wasn't there. And I was there that day, you were not there.

• 58:44Trevor Noah?

  But literally a week apart, we started comedy in the same venue, in the same city, in the same country, right? But I think the, the thing you blessed me with in comedy is, you always reminded me to keep it as a hobby.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:59Trevor Noah?

  Like, always. You've almost always been allergic to it being a job.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 59:04Trevor Noah?

  In fact, every time people have tried to make it a job, I almost feel like you get like, you, you get offended in a weird way.

• 59:11Trevor Noah?

  And had you not done that with me, I think I would have let comedy be a job. And then if, if you let that happen, oftentimes the joy and the wonder that you experience in the thing goes away.

• 59:23Speaker 02

  Yes, it's a have to.

• 59:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's a have to and not a want to.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Our job as humans, we have to tap into our DNA and remember why we are here.

• 59:31Trevor Noah?

  Why do you think we're here?

• 59:32Speaker 02

  To live and fix the things that we didn't do the last time. I think our lives are a continuous journey. Our souls know why we're here. This body is just a vessel. We're just here to remember. It's time and when we find passions and we find places that we're familiar with, but we don't know from where. It's because we've been here before. We're trying to remember. And that what lives, that's what makes lives interesting for me. When I go to a place and I'm like, this is interesting. I'm like, I remember there must have been something great here that happened somewhere, sometime.

• 1:00:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  That brings me back here again. And and I live in that world of wonder where I go, I've been here before. I've done this thing before. That's why when I lose something, I'm like, I must have had it before and I had it again. And it was time for it to go. So something can happen now. I need to feel something. My job in this world with this vessel, with this body, with all of the friends and the environment that it has brought me in is to feel something. If I feel happy, I know I'm feeling.

• 1:00:25Trevor Noah?

  You know, it's so funny you say this.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:28Trevor Noah?

  One of the most transformative thoughts I've ever experienced as a person.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:33Trevor Noah?

  Was I was, I think I was in Sweden and I was on a mushroom trip.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:38Trevor Noah?

  Right? And, you know, you, you, you having this beautiful experience.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:44Trevor Noah?

  Connecting with yourself, connecting with others. But one of the things that really hit me was the idea of energy.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:52Trevor Noah?

  Right? And I'm not a woo woo person per se.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:56Trevor Noah?

  You know, I'm not very spiritual. I think you're more spiritual than I am.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:00:59Trevor Noah?

  No, I think you are and and in a good way.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:01:01Trevor Noah?

  Like, and I think you remind me of that sometimes, like, I can be very didactic. I can be very, you know, ironically, to go back to the Bible, it's like, you know, if you, if you look at the the Trinity. It's like, yeah, there's, there's the mind.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:01:12Trevor Noah?

  There's the body and then there's the spirit. This thing that exists in a world that you can't really, you don't think it and you don't feel it, but it is, right?

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:01:19Trevor Noah?

  And and the thought that I had was energy. Everything that's happening in the universe is energy, right? Like it's, but like actual, like even physics energy. I'm not saying like, ah, it's energy. I'm saying it's actual energy, right? Yeah, but I'm not saying.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  What did you add a sound effect? Is that album still available?

• 1:01:35Trevor Noah?

  Oh, it's energy. No, I don't mean that.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  It's sound effect.

• 1:01:37Trevor Noah?

  I don't mean, not even dismiss it to that, but I don't mean that.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  I get you.

• 1:01:40Trevor Noah?

  And I was thinking to myself once, it almost feels like our purpose and our idea. And it's, what's funny that you just said that is. To express the idea of what it means to be by being in relation to. You know, so I like, I think of like, light is a good example. I always find it crazy because physics is such a complicated thing. My brain, I really struggle to understand it. I listen to it and I remember things, but I go, I don't understand it. But like, one of the craziest concepts to me is the fact that I'm not seeing you. I'm seeing the light that is reflected off you. Right? So when we see a flower, we're not seeing the flower really. We're seeing the light that the flower is reflecting.

• 1:02:25Trevor Noah?

  And when you expand that sort of infinitely, you know, throughout time, you go, that is what we all are. What we all are is reflections of energy and light that are, that is helping us to experience the thing that is happening. And then to your point, I, I remember thinking, huh, I was like, what if the idea of what we call God or this thing that we've all, you know, in different religions, different places, different whatevers we wanna call it, what if it itself

• 1:02:54Trevor Noah?

  is trying to experience the thing? And that's why everything is.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. It makes total sense. It's just that as people, we avoid that because it will now make us question everything that we are.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  The choices that we made, the people that we know, the places that we've been.

• 1:03:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And I think of all of that as an experiment. Like I go.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  It's a giant experiment. We're in a pituitary.

• 1:03:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  And someone is busy going.

• 1:03:21Trevor Noah?

  I think of it as a giant experiment.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  Hundred percent true.

• 1:03:23Trevor Noah?

  You know?

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  It's hundred percent true.

• 1:03:25Trevor Noah?

  Like, actually, I think of it like when, when scientists shoot lasers or they shoot like even a telescope. What you, what you're doing is you're getting a reflection of something, right? You're getting light from, from a far distance away and you're getting information from it. And I wondered like, we could literally be the lasers that are being sent to come back with information. So you driving the way you drove, in a weird way, I know this sounds crazy, but in a weird way, you're teaching the entire human race how to drive.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:50Trevor Noah?

  And then you eating, like I always go, I'm so grateful to people who ate certain foods and died so that I know which foods I can eat.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  I think of it for pets. I'm like the first person that tried to tame a werewolf, a wolf. Now we have puppies.

• 1:04:04Trevor Noah?

  It's pretty crazy.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Trevor Noah?

  By the way, have you seen?

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Doing it for you Trevor. So you can walk in a mall with this thing one day.

• 1:04:12Trevor Noah?

  Have you seen the videos of those guys who still do that now?

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Who try to tame wolves?

• 1:04:15Trevor Noah?

  No, not try.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  Who tame wolves?

• 1:04:17Trevor Noah?

  Not tame Eugene.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 1:04:19Trevor Noah?

  There's these videos of people. Who are out in the mountains, then they see wolves. Then they call the wolves like dogs. And then the wolf is not, obviously is not a dog. But it like looks at them, it approaches them. And it's actually quite amenable to you as a person. And then they start playing with it and then you see the wolf going, what is this that I'm experiencing?

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  This is good.

• 1:04:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, why, why is this clothed monkey making me feel good?

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:45Trevor Noah?

  Like that's what the wolf is experiencing. And, and then like they say that this is probably how it happened, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, domestication, et cetera, but, but it's, it's amazing to see that stuff. It's still like that. Did you say we're dating? Wow.

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  Look, one concept that blew my mind away, um, and also changed my life was when I read somewhere, I don't remember where. Where it says, everything that you're experiencing is what you want to experience. So everyone in my life is a character that I created for me to have the sum total of a life experience. With feelings and emotions.

• 1:05:26Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  And a quick fast forward to the journey that I need. What I signed up for before I was born, I knew which characters must come into play for me to achieve what I need to achieve.

• 1:05:34Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  So for you to be here in a room with me is because I wanted it to happen. In the back of my mind, somewhere in my lesson, in my past life, this should have happened so that I can, can lead to something else. Same with you. So we keep meeting these soul families, a group of five individuals that will make a great impact in your life as you go along. So even if it's the first stage of your life, there'll be five that you can mention that matter. As an adolescent, there'll be five that matter. In your career, there'll be five that matter. Those are soul groups. So those are people just coming into your life and they exist purely for your assistance. They're here to push you, they're here to teach you, even heartbreak is a lesson. Not all good time. That's why I was asking you in the beginning, why do you think pain features so much in the Bible? It's because heartbreak is an accelerant.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  Hurt and pain and loss is an accelerant to feeling something. You can be comfortable all your life and not feel anything else. But as soon as you feel loss and pain, you will remember that you also had a good time. So that's what pain and suffering is for, but suffering is voluntary. So you're suffering, you choose it and you use it as a medication. You take it in doses so that you can remember how good you have it. Someone in a, in a hospital right now, who has no chance of leaving, has, doesn't have this privilege that you and I have to walk downstairs, to walk around, get in the car, press buttons, and that's all they want at this moment. But they've had it maybe for fifty years.

• 1:06:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  And never cared for it, but the suffering accelerated the memory of the good times that they had. So if you think about life like that, you can walk around the mall and see mil- hundreds of people. But if you think about how many people you've called and sat with and chatted with, in most cases, they won't exceed number five. It's that group of people that you can rely on and trust, and they always accelerate you to go further. And those are the people that will bring heartache, they'll bring laughter, they'll bring lessons, they'll bring admiration and adoration at the same time. Because you need those two to balance. As much as you admire someone, someone needs to adore you. That's when the base romantic relationships work, when there's a chut man in the group. Someone gets admired and someone adores the other person. They adore the fact that they admire them, and they admire them for the fact that they adored them.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  So that's how things work, this balance that we're always seeking. And just knowing that once you start feeling something, then something is happening. Growth is pain, kids go through that all the time. Oh, my elbow, ew, my back, because they're growing. Then they go and rest and everything feels better again.

• 1:07:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:52Speaker 02

  But as adults, what do we do? We just go and try to make pain not exist, because we feel like when we're feeling pain, we failed. And when you're feeling pain, you're growing. When you're tired, like we walked the other time.

• 1:08:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  And we felt it, eh? Yeah, then we did something.

• 1:08:06Trevor Noah?

  I think it's the ultimate dilemma, though.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:08:09Trevor Noah?

  I'll tell you why I think it's the ultimate dilemma is because.

• 1:08:13Trevor Noah?

  I think we should be careful

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:15Trevor Noah?

  to not make life about pain. And I'm not saying you're saying that, by the way.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  No, absolutely.

• 1:08:19Trevor Noah?

  But I I have noticed there's been a, and maybe this is not a new thing, but just generally, I've noticed a lot of people seem to use pain as the meaning. Do you know what I mean? They go, that's why we're here. And then, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Pain is part of the experience, but I think we should be careful to not make pain the experience. Do you get what I'm saying? And the reason I say this is because

• 1:08:44Trevor Noah?

  we should also remember, in the same way that we cannot only exist in fun, good, easy, comfortable, warm. We also don't exist in cold, boring, hard, painful. We don't exist like that, you know? Look at, look at animals. Like, you know, throughout Africa, why do they migrate? Like, think of the fundamental concept of migration. It's an animal going, oh, this land is about to become arid. It is about to become cold. It is about to become unlivable. We're gonna go seek out another place. And oftentimes, to your point, that journey is hard. But the thing that they're seeking is not hard.

• 1:09:27Trevor Noah?

  And so sometimes I get like a little, there's like a little spidey sense that hits me the wrong, the way where I go like, sometimes I go like, guys, I think we're learning the the wrong lesson or we're applying the the lesson incorrectly. Because people will be like, I'm looking for the pain. And you're not saying that, but I'm saying, you go like, pain's a lesson. I love that. But people go, no, I look for pain. I look for the thing. I look, then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I argue looking for the thing on the other side, looking for the rainbow. Getting to it is the pain. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, the journey.

• 1:09:57Trevor Noah?

  That is the pain. You wanna go and see the view from the highest peak.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:10:01Trevor Noah?

  The hike is the pain. But I I get a little thrown off when people now sell the pain and they make it seem like that is the it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Understand that that is part of it. You cannot get to a tall peak

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:10:14Trevor Noah?

  without experiencing the pain of the hike.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:10:16Trevor Noah?

  And when you get there, as you say, funny enough, I love that's a beautiful way to put it. It's an accelerant. That pain of the walk makes you appreciate the view even more because you're like, wow. I can't believe this and I cause I don't get to see it and my knees, my legs, my body, my feeling, my whatever, what you know?

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  You know, the thing is, the average person does not know the difference between suffering and pain.

• 1:10:35Trevor Noah?

  The the first time I came across that was it was Viktor Frankl, I think.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:10:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, uh Viktor Frankl, who was a psychotherapist and he was a Holocaust survivor.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:10:45Trevor Noah?

  And I remember reading his work and he developed a lot of it, I think, in the Holocaust. And he said, what he learned there was pain is real, suffering is a choice.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:10:57Trevor Noah?

  And a lot of people were angry at this. And he said, no. And he said, he said, I realized this in the concentration camp.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:11:02Trevor Noah?

  He said, these Nazis were there and they were wanting to exterminate me and my people. And he said, but every day I was like, I can smile if I wanna smile and I can choose to enjoy my day. Now, people, if you say that, people will be like, that's crazy.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:11:17Trevor Noah?

  But he was like, no, no, no. He's like, this to me

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:11:21Trevor Noah?

  is real.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:22Trevor Noah?

  This part of my reality, I'm defining.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  This conversation.

• 1:11:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And and you know, you know, when you realize how real it is, to your point, the pain and suffering.

• 1:11:31Trevor Noah?

  I always think of it in traffic.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:11:34Trevor Noah?

  Depending on how you feel.

• 1:11:38Trevor Noah?

  Traffic is either just a thing that is happening or it is the end of your life. Like, I even think of it like this, funny enough, like a podcast is a great example. When I have a podcast that I'm listening to, that I'm enjoying, there is no traffic.

• 1:11:57Trevor Noah?

  There's literally no traffic. I'm listening to a conversation and I'm driving. Sometimes I get angry that I get there sooner than I was anticipating.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  This thing is happening.

• 1:12:05Trevor Noah?

  Because I haven't finished the episode. Now I'm sitting in a parking lot going, ah, man.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Now I have to leave these friends of mine.

• 1:12:10Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man. Oh, man. Why, I thought there was gonna be more traffic. Ah, ah. Yeah, but you get what I'm saying. Now I'm at, I'm at, I've either reached the house that I was going to, or I've reached the destination, the office that I was driving. But I'm angry that there wasn't enough of the traffic because I enjoy listening in a car.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  Perspective.

• 1:12:28Trevor Noah?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:30Trevor Noah?

  But if I'm trying to get somewhere.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:12:32Trevor Noah?

  Now, all of a sudden, I don't have a podcast and traffic is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And so to your point, funny enough, that's where it's pain versus suffering.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:12:41Trevor Noah?

  Right? The, the pain is real. Yes, your, your wifi is slow.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:12:45Trevor Noah?

  But you're not suffering.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  Yes. So animals know this better than anyone. So they migrate because they know that if they stay here, they're gonna suffer. And that's optional. So they walk towards the pain so they can avoid the suffering. So that's what the thing is. So it's an accelerant in that way that you need to walk towards it. But if you stay, you suffer. So suffering is always a regret of things you would have done had you enjoyed the pain.

• 1:13:09Trevor Noah?

  Yo, damn, that's deep.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  So you just have to.

• 1:13:12Trevor Noah?

  I thought I was talking to a comedian. Yo, this, I wasn't prepared for this. Oh, oh. No, I wasn't ready. That's a deep one, man.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  So you're there doing it.

• 1:13:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no. But just say that again.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  So suffering is if you stay. And then pain is what you go through when you walk away from suffering.

• 1:13:29Trevor Noah?

  Hmm. So it's like you choose, do you?

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  Because it's gonna be regret.

• 1:13:33Trevor Noah?

  No, you can apply it to everything.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gonna be regret and suffering, yes.

• 1:13:36Trevor Noah?

  Going to the gym is painful.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  Painful.

• 1:13:38Trevor Noah?

  Being overweight is suffering.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Being unhealthy and dying.

• 1:13:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  And making other people have to.

• 1:13:42Trevor Noah?

  No, and not being able to walk upstairs, carry your kids, lifting, you're suffering.

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Yes. Should I have met, should I have cancelled and said, ah, I'm busy? And I didn't go, now I'm gonna sit here and suffer and regret. I could have been doing this. I could have just been here. I walk towards it. I had to do this, I had to do that. Yeah, I don't wanna get up now. Oh, should I get dressed now? Oh, let me go. Then I'm here, then the pain. Then I'm here at the mountain top, like you said, and I'm looking at this view. Animals do it instinctually. They know that if they stay, they suffer. If they move, they feel pain, but it's ultimately worth it because it's an accelerant to good times. Always, when you have to have a little bit of pain, the reward is far greater. So when people have become numb, like you said, that's where the pain starts. That's where the meanness in people is. That's where the impatience is. That's where the intolerance is. Because we've, we, we now avoid suffering and pain at the same time.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, we want neither.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  Now you numb. So that's why I say when the day finishes and I'm in pain. Yeah. I know that did something nice. Not when I have regret. I shouldn't have gone there. Why did I even go? Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I shouldn't have gone. Why? But if I'm going, oh, my neck, ooh, this, ooh, you're on my finger because of doing this all day, oh, this and that. I've never regretted those days. I always wake up the next morning and go, I know exactly why this part is sore. But because that pain accelerated me to learn a new skill. And, and learn how this person, we've said in cars so many times, you and I. Yeah. And then we don't like sitting cars, but we love cars. Yeah. And in the car, we know that we play music in the background and I've always criticized your music choice. But it, it allows conversation because we're not listening.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  It allows conversation. Always playing there, Tchaikovsky and all these, ah, and I'm like, Trevor, is this an elevator? He like sort of, and then we're there, we have these conversations, we're in a contained environment. In traffic, like you said, but we don't see the traffic and we, we get to have these conversations extendedly. But then when I look at myself, I'm like, I hate being in a car for that long. But when we're together, we're having this conversation. It accelerated that for us. It facilitated that. So when you start looking at people, events, time, our bodies and objects as an accelerant for us to remember. Who we really are and what we're here to do. Then life becomes this journey where regrets don't exist. Because everything that happened that I didn't enjoy was accelerating me to my growth. And why would I hate something that made me grow?

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  I loved all of it. That one missing, that half, most of the day of school that day had homework to catch up on. Because I couldn't trade that for the world when I'm sitting with my mom. I often think when I was ten years old. My mom had just turned, eh, almost forty. She was young. She took the time. She could have hung out with her friends. I'm forty-three right now. She could have hung out with her friends, you know?

• 1:16:21Trevor Noah?

  It is weird to think about how young our parents were.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she chose to.

• 1:16:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  She made sure she swapped shifts with someone, she took that shift. She would take me and we would hang out, she'd listen to. So I think of those times and I go, if I think of the homework that piled up and my friends were telling me about the soccer match that they had after school, bloody blah, and I'm thinking about the time I laid in the grass with my mom in the park. And I'm like, I couldn't swap that for the world. Now I appreciate the effort she put into making sure that she accelerates my growth by feeling that little bit of pain of homework catch up.

• 1:16:49Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  She accelerated me in knowing who I really am. I love nature, I love being on the outside, at the outside. I love being at the park, I love laughing, I love dreaming and just lying there and looking up and having a good time. So when I look at my life in my late thirties and forties and I look at my life in my tens and I'm like, there was always grass. There was always a park. I was at Burgess Park, a park in Pretoria that's derelict. And I got to spend time in the most prestigious park in the world that people dream of going to. And I got to lie on the grass there and daydream again about my life. And things that I thought of three years ago in that park, I have them now.

• 1:17:22Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  So I, I'm not wrong. Somewhere, somehow, there's energy that's vibrating towards helping me get to where I'm going.

• 1:17:29Trevor Noah?

  What do you, what do you do when you feel disconnected from that? Cause I, maybe, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm even projecting. But I think one of the things I've noticed you and I both share is there'll be moments where we feel disconnected from that. And then it's like, we don't wanna go outside and you don't wanna be part of the world and you don't wanna see the thing and you don't, you know what I mean?

• 1:17:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:49Trevor Noah?

  How do you, how do you get back to that?

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  I look at pictures. Phones are the greatest invention ever. I look at places that I've been to and I remember the feelings that I had there. Then I go, what is the quickest way I can replicate this if I can't go there? Then I'll find a patch of grass and I'll find a park. Then I'll find sunshine, I'll wear my walking shoes and I'll start walking for kilometers and kilometers.

• 1:18:08Trevor Noah?

  You've got walking shoes?

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:18:10Trevor Noah?

  What are they?

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  Adidas shoes, but I use them for walking.

• 1:18:13Trevor Noah?

  It's just walking shoes?

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  No, they're running shoes, but I use them for walking.

• 1:18:16Trevor Noah?

  I thought it's like, this is all they can do.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  No, when, no, when, no.

• 1:18:19Trevor Noah?

  Like if someone chased you, you're like, hey buddy, you chose the wrong day, man.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  Oh snap!

• 1:18:22Trevor Noah?

  Oh man, I got my walking shoes on. Oh, I would have gotten away from you. Woo hoo hoo hoo. Oh man.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  When I look at those and I put them on, I know I'm gonna walk now and I know what, what that means to me and what I'll remember. The thing that we do worst in our lives is not to remember.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  We must remember, you and I have memories between us. We don't have anything physical.

• 1:18:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  Nothing at all, but we have memories. We go, ah, that guy, there was this time when we did this. Hehe, then we laugh, then we move on to other people and other things. And then after that, we remember things that they did.

• 1:18:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  And we come back to the memory again.

• 1:18:57Trevor Noah?

  You're not wrong.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Remember that thing. So that's all I have. So when I feel I dive deep into that hole of suffering.

• 1:19:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  Then I realize this is self-imposed. My bike is outside, my thing is there, my daughter's in the other room.

• 1:19:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  My Playstation. So I go, why are you choosing this? And I go, yeah, but yeah, but I go, look at my sneakers and I go, I can wear those to go outside right now. And it's within my grasp and reach. And I tell you now, whenever I walk, I see the cars that I love. I see the, I see a Porsche nine eleven walk, driving vroom vroom past, and I'm going, if I was in my room, I would never seen this. Is this a coincidence?

• 1:19:30Trevor Noah?

  There's a, um, so there's a, a French philosopher.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:35Trevor Noah?

  He talks about luck.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:37Trevor Noah?

  And the surface areas of luck.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:19:40Trevor Noah?

  Right? Because I know I'm gonna butcher some of it, but I remember it for the most part. Essentially, what he talked about, and this is like a long time ago, but what he talked about was how luck is always happening.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:51Trevor Noah?

  It's continuous, okay?

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:19:53Trevor Noah?

  However, there are different types of luck that you can choose to participate in.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 1:19:59Trevor Noah?

  And so he said, the first type of luck is dumb luck.

• 1:20:04Trevor Noah?

  Pure chance, has nothing to do with you.

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:20:07Trevor Noah?

  And that luck is who you were born to, when you were born, where you were born, what you look like, what, there's certain things where it's like, hey, man.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  Things that are outside of your control.

• 1:20:16Trevor Noah?

  Completely outside of your control.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:20:19Trevor Noah?

  You were born in the Philippines. Okay, you were born in the Philippines. You were born in Estonia. Okay, you were born in Estonia. That's it.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:20:26Trevor Noah?

  Right? That's like a dumb luck. Then the second type of luck that he talks about is luck of motion. And this is where things start to get interesting. So he goes, there's luck that happens to you merely because you start moving.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:20:42Trevor Noah?

  Right? Both literally and figuratively, there's luck of motion. So if you lie in bed all day.

• 1:20:50Trevor Noah?

  You can never bump into somebody by chance in the mall, on the street, in a res- none of it.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  Motion.

• 1:20:57Trevor Noah?

  Motion.

• 1:20:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:58Trevor Noah?

  Now, but now remember, it's very important to, to, to, to remind people and myself all the time. I go like, remember luck can be good or bad. So I'm not saying this is like a good thing. I'm just saying it is, right? Because if you don't get out of bed, you can never stub your toe.

• 1:21:12Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:21:13Trevor Noah?

  Right?

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  Like that, yeah.

• 1:21:15Trevor Noah?

  So it, it goes both ways. As soon as you start to increase your motion, there is going to be a higher probability of luck happening in your life. So you've created your luck. And lucky people generally are people who try and facilitate more motion in their lives because they consider themselves lucky. So you'll go, why did you buy a raffle ticket? Ah, I'm a lucky kind of guy. Then another person's like, ah, I don't have any luck. That's why I don't even bother buying it. But that motion sets in place the effect that you then experience. Then you have the third one, which I think is like a lack of awareness. They have different names for it, but luck of awareness. And that one is literally what you, ironically, you see, let's say you, you did your motion. You left your house. You went outside.

• 1:21:58Trevor Noah?

  The Porsche drives by. So you've got to experience the Porsche, right? Wrong. You experienced it because of what? You were aware it was there.

• 1:22:07Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean? So now you go, wow, I'm so lucky that a Porsche drove by and a Porsche is my favorite car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're also lucky because you were aware of it. If you were walking around with your head in your phone and headphones on, now you weren't aware of what was happening. So there's some people who go, I'm so lucky to have such great people in my life. Yes, but you have to be aware that you have great people in your life. Otherwise, you are not going to be lucky to have great people in your life. Awareness is one of the key ones. The awareness of luck. And then again, that awareness can go the other way. If you are aware of the negative more than you are aware of the positive, you will feel like you have terrible people in your life. You have terrible things happening to you. There is, you live in a terrible country. Like, you know what I mean? Like people like that.

• 1:22:48Trevor Noah?

  I'm amazed by the way, when I travel the world, regardless of where I go, there are some people who think they're living in the greatest country ever. And some people who think they're living in the worst country. Doesn't matter where I go. I've talked to Americans who say, this is, oh my God, I can't believe, I'm so lucky to be in America. I mean, have you seen this country? And then I talk to Americans who are like, I can't, I mean, this is the worst country. I wish I could live anywhere else. Then I'm like, so the two of you are in the same place. What are you aware of that the other one isn't? Or what are you choosing to be aware of? So that's the luck. You've got dumb luck. Mm hmm. Luck of motion. Mm hmm. Luck of awareness. And then the last one, this reminds me of you, is luck of uniqueness or luck of specialization.

• 1:23:28Trevor Noah?

  And this is a luck that'll only happen to you if you choose to engage in something that requires an active and specialized thought. Hmm. You are way less likely to meet Lionel Messi. Hmm. If you are not in football.

• 1:23:46Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean? Mm hmm. Not saying you will or won't. Mm hmm. But I'm saying you're way less likely. Mm hmm. To meet Lionel Messi. Hmm. If you're not in football. Hmm. You're way less likely to meet a Supreme Court Justice of the United States if you're not in law. Less likely.

• 1:24:02Speaker 05

  Trevor Noah is less likely to meet Eugene Cozer if they're not both in comedy.

• 1:24:05Trevor Noah?

  Comedy was our uniqueness. Hmm.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  Can I, can I add something else to your dumb luck? Uh, when I came back from P E two years ago, I found this place on the internet without even looking. Without even viewing it, I just moved in. We just moved from the beach.

• 1:24:17Trevor Noah?

  The place you live in now.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  And then you bought the house.

• 1:24:20Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  Twelve minutes away from.

• 1:24:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, dumb luck. But no, that wasn't dumb luck, funny enough. That was luck of motion.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:26Trevor Noah?

  Because you, you, you chose a place.

• 1:24:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:28Trevor Noah?

  And I chose a place.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:29Trevor Noah?

  But the last one, to your point, the most important one was, even us, Ryan, if you think about it, like comedy.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  Comedy.

• 1:24:36Trevor Noah?

  We've chosen to like, like hone in on this thing like a, you know, I remember, I remember telling Dave Chappelle, we um, where were, I think it was like his fiftieth birthday, where, where this happened. Fiftieth birthday or one of the other shows. And anytime Dave is performing somewhere and I can go, I'll go. And then Dave loves comedy and he loves comedians. So Dave says to me, he's like, yo, are you jumping on? And I was like, no, I'm not jumping on. And he's like, why not? Then I was like, Dave, I'm not jumping on because I didn't come to do comedy. I came to watch comedy. And more importantly, I came to watch you as Dave Chappelle.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  I'm here to enjoy the show.

• 1:25:09Trevor Noah?

  Then he's like, no, but you gotta jump on, you gotta jump on. Come on, why, why you not jump? And he was like, and then I, I, I had to like think about it hard. Cause he, he didn't, he sort of didn't understand. He was like, do you not want to jump on? Cause it's my show, dude. I was like, are you crazy? What are you? Then I realized what it was. Hmm. I was like, Dave. You you have to understand that I also love this thing beyond me doing it so much that getting to come in like appreciate because I see how much you love it.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  I derive joy.

• 1:25:34Trevor Noah?

  So if I come here and do the comedy, some of my awareness is dulled because I'm thinking of myself. I'm thinking of my jokes, I'm thinking of my point of view, my performance.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, was I dressed for this?

• 1:25:45Trevor Noah?

  All of it. I'm thinking like I'm thinking of me and now I get to miss.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  You.

• 1:25:50Trevor Noah?

  You as Dave Chappelle. I get to misargue me the greatest comedian of like our generation. Because I just wasn't aware, because I was I was self-aware. You know what I mean?

• 1:26:01Trevor Noah?

  Don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

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• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  Those steps that you've just mentioned, what I would do before this conversation, I would club them all together into motion.

• 1:27:42Trevor Noah?

  Okay, got it.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  I would look at it as I did something and they did something and then we did something happened.

• 1:27:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:47Speaker 02

  I wouldn't look at it as the way that you broke it down. It makes so much sense now. And I also feel like we've become lazy to dream. I think most of us, that's the one thing we have for free, our imagination, our dreams, just lay back and just think of what you want and it will appear in front of you. And I learned this weird concept. I was telling this friend of mine, I said, "Everything that I've had, that I enjoyed and that I acquired immediately was, I never put time to it." I said, "I have this thing and I'm gonna, I have it now and I can't wait to touch it and feel it." And that thing happened. But there's things that I've always put far ahead in my life. And I said, "Yeah, one day, one day, one day, one..." Because I've been nonspecific about what I want. The thing keeps becoming a dream.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  And I said, "I'm very aware that also that can be an addiction on itself, postponing your own joy, success and happiness into the future." Because somehow you feel like you yourself, you're undeserving, you're not worthy, you're not ready. So you keep saying, "One day I'm gonna make a lot of money. One day..." What's a lot of money? And then you keep saying that because you don't want to be, because you wanna commit yourself to it. You know, same way I don't write my set down, there's things I'd never want to commit myself to. And now I'm specific. If I want to see a 9/11, a red one, I'll say it to myself and I'll see a red one. And I'll see it twice in a day and I'll be like, "Yeah, I saw it because now I'm aware." Now you've made me aware. That is my awareness that's heightened, but I also was in motion.

• 1:29:07Trevor Noah?

  And uniqueness.

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  And uniqueness and I was specific.

• 1:29:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  And I also get specific about what I want. So I'm learning that now recently, that I must be specific with what I want. I even see it in my mind's eye.

• 1:29:19Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you why, what I think it is though?

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:22Trevor Noah?

  So, I argue that most of the time, the reason we're not specific with what we want is because we do not know what we want. I believe that all of us as human beings, we do not know what we want.

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:29:37Trevor Noah?

  I think we know what we don't want, but we don't know what we want. And I think if you live life thinking you know what you want.

• 1:29:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:29:43Trevor Noah?

  You're going to find yourself constantly disappointed when you get there and realizing that it is not doing what you thought it would do.

• 1:29:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:49Trevor Noah?

  Right? So all of us grow up, you're a young boy, maybe some girls as well, depending on society, whatever. You go, I want a Ferrari when I grow up. But nobody has ever sat us down to say, why? Why do you, as a four-year-old, who has never paid any bill in your life, think you want a Ferrari?

• 1:30:09Speaker 02

  Doesn't even know how to drive.

• 1:30:11Trevor Noah?

  What is, why do you think you want a Ferrari? Then, because it's fast and, and because it's, because it's red and because, like, yeah, but why? What, what are all those things gonna do? What, what is it that you? And then what happens in life? Boys grow into men.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:30:28Trevor Noah?

  Who then work to get towards something. Girls grow into women who work towards something.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:30:33Trevor Noah?

  And then they get the thing. They get the Ferrari. They get the wedding. They get the big house.

• 1:30:38Speaker 02

  The job.

• 1:30:38Trevor Noah?

  They get the job.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  The salary.

• 1:30:40Trevor Noah?

  They get all these things. And then what happens? There's a deep emptiness inside you. And that deep emptiness is the realization that the thing that you want has not made you feel like you thought it would make you feel. Because you never had it. So how would you know that it would make you feel that way? Because you've never had it. And this is the thing that I literally realized this for my life. And then I, I challenge my friends and anyone I talk to about this. They'll go, man, I, I really want that thing. Then I go, why do you want it? No, because you know, if I can, man, if, if I can get that job, then, then I go like, okay, then what will happen? I'm just gonna, then I'll feel like my life is, then I'm like, you're lying. You're lying. Do you know how I know you're lying? Because you've never had the job. So how do you know that the job will make you feel that way?

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:31:24Trevor Noah?

  We all want to feel a certain way. But we don't know what the thing is that will complement or help us feel that way. We don't know.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  That's what brings me um to the initial subject that we started with when I said, when we hang out with people that have normal jobs.

• 1:31:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Because we get to experience their milestones from the outside. So when someone, that's what I said to you, when someone looks at a car and says, that's a nice car.

• 1:31:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  You and I remember a time when they looked at another car. And said, nice car.

• 1:31:54Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  When we hear them going, ah, can't get off because of, but we, you and I remember a time when they wanted the gig.

• 1:32:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  But now.

• 1:32:02Trevor Noah?

  I hope I, I hope I get this job.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's why I said, this is coming full circle. That's, that's where I find when I'm with friends that have structured, normal jobs. That's where I get to measure what people's needs really are versus what they want are. Because they wanted this thing so bad, they dreamt about it, they, they knew if they reached this level and get this kind of a job and position, this what it means. But when I'm with them now, I don't have the time for this anymore. You know how much things here cost, the thing that they dreamt about the most.

• 1:32:32Trevor Noah?

  You know, it's so funny, you are, I mean, I've never said this to anyone because it would be weird, but you are one of the reasons I left The Daily Show.

• 1:32:42Speaker 02

  Shoot, I'm sorry.

• 1:32:45Trevor Noah?

  Not.

• 1:32:46Speaker 05

  Because you knew how he felt about people with jobs.

• 1:32:56Speaker 02

  What an evil man.

• 1:32:58Trevor Noah?

  No, you, you, you wanted the rea-, you know why? There's a conversation you and I had many years ago, maybe like ten years ago, somewhere there. And you said to me, again, as usual, we're in a car, we were driving somewhere, and you said, make sure you learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you. And I was like, what? And I was like, yo, this is deep, cause like we were going to buy Nandos or something.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 1:33:22Trevor Noah?

  I was like, this is a strange, is this like a euphemism for, are you telling me you're not gonna pay? What, what is happening here? And then you said, no, you said, you must learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you. And I was like, what, what are you talking about? And oftentimes you'll say crazy things to me and I'm like, we're friends, so I just listen.

• 1:33:38Trevor Noah?

  But when you, when you broke it down, you said, if you have never starved yourself, you do not know what it is like to starve. And so when you are starved by somebody else or a situation, you will now be panicking because you don't know what it is like to starve. You know what I mean? So you, to use like a silly analogy, if you lift weights, the day you need to lift something, you are familiar with lifting as a concept. Yeah, you've lifted things to yourself, you've made yourself lift heavy things. So now when you have to lift a heavy thing, you know how to lift a heavy thing and you, you're not like, ah. You, it might still be heavy, but at least you know how to lift things, right? And when you said that to me, it stuck with me and we talked a little bit more about it. And we talked a little bit more about it.

• 1:34:23Trevor Noah?

  And I remember when I was going to leave The Daily Show, the thing that stuck with me was how very few people considered the notion that I could want something that wasn't what was supposed to be wanted. People were like, but why would you leave? It's The Daily Show. And I was like, yeah, and it's a beautiful thing. Then I go, yeah, but why would you leave? Then I'm like, why do I leave a park? I go to a beautiful park. But now what? So you want me to just live at Central Park now? Yeah, but it's so stunning.

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  I would.

• 1:35:03Trevor Noah?

  There are people, you say that, you think you would. But you, you're like, yeah, just because it's beautiful doesn't mean that it never has to end. You know, coming back to what you're saying about endings. Like literally, I'm not even joking, you taught me that, like in so many ways. I was like, yeah, but when, when does it end? And it does, I'm not saying it, you have to do it to make it end, but it's like, yeah, but when does it end? And it was so interesting, having some of the, some conversations with people at The Daily Show. Some people who, I said to them, I said, so are you gonna be here forever? And then they would just look at me and go, oh, well, actually. And some people were honest enough to say, well, actually, there's this project that I was actually gonna leave and I'm thinking of doing. So I'm like, so you two at some point are gonna leave.

• 1:35:45Trevor Noah?

  Even like a viewer, there's some people who will say, I used to watch the show all the time. I really loved you on it. Why did you leave? Then I go, but you used to watch. When did you stop?

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  You left.

• 1:35:55Trevor Noah?

  Then they go, well, I stopped after the pandemic and then, but I loved the show. Then I'm like, yes, but you stopped watching and you didn't now hate me. You just stopped watching and that's beautiful.

• 1:36:05Trevor Noah?

  So if you are able to acknowledge and understand that things are gonna start, things are gonna end, things are gonna be in between. Like, like why? Because if you, if you're not careful, you're no longer aware.

• 1:36:20Speaker 02

  You're numb.

• 1:36:21Trevor Noah?

  It was, can I tell you, I'm eternally, eternally grateful. Bro, I, when I think of The Daily Show, I go like, man, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And I've told you about, it's like, you wanna talk about pain? One of the hardest things I've ever experienced in my life and also one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever, ever had in my life.

• 1:36:43Trevor Noah?

  But to stay in it.

• 1:36:47Trevor Noah?

  Beyond the pain now just turns it into like a suffering now.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  No, you're choosing this pain.

• 1:36:52Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:53Trevor Noah?

  I I think it was actually Letterman, I think it was Letterman who who said in his in his farewell. This is when he was announcing that he was leaving. It's like they say in this business, you know, you. You got to know when it's time to move on. You got to know when it's time to leave and and um for me. That day came and I stayed fifteen years longer and today I'm announcing that I'm leaving. But I like and it was such a it was a good joke, but it was like it's a poignant thing that not many people could like really. But I I connected to that. I was like, oh, yeah, man.

• 1:37:24Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:37:25Trevor Noah?

  It can end and how many of us can truly say?

• 1:37:30Trevor Noah?

  That we have exercised our choice to end a thing when we could end a thing.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Hmm. When we wanted to.

• 1:37:35Trevor Noah?

  Because most of the time, life is doing things for you.

• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:38Trevor Noah?

  When does the ride end? Oh, when it ends, they tell you to get off a roller coaster. You they're like, please. They're like, hey, man, get off. So you never get to choose to end a roller coaster ride. Uh they tell you that the restaurant is closing, so you don't get to choose to like walk out when you want to walk out. Uh sorry, we need this table. They tell you the movie's over. You don't get to choose. Netflix tells you the season is finished. You don't choose. And if you look at it, we are experiencing fewer and fewer opportunities to choose when to end a thing and when to begin a thing.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:38:04Trevor Noah?

  Which is a weird, beautiful blessing to have, because there's one thing we don't choose when to end and when to begin, and that's life.

• 1:38:11Trevor Noah?

  You don't choose when your life is going to begin, and you don't choose for the most part when your life is going to end. And so in in like a uh genuinely, that's one of the things that you've always. Like I've always looked at you like a crazy person, but in a good way. I always think my friends genuinely, most of my friends, I think, are crazy for different reasons. But I've I looked at you and I go, this this guy's crazy. Why did he do? He just so he walked away. So he stopped that. So he's not doing that. So he's not. And you're like, yeah, it is crazy, only because it's not normal. But it's not crazy because it doesn't make sense.

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  People react to extremities all the time because we want to feel. People don't know that they want to feel something. When they watch a football match, they want to feel something. They want to feel joy or disappointment. There's two teams playing.

• 1:38:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  There's.

• 1:38:57Trevor Noah?

  There's nothing worse than a boring, goalless draw.

• 1:39:00Speaker 02

  Yes, when people come to your show, they wanna feel something. Sometimes they think it's laughter, but it's not. It's actually getting to know the person next to them. They want to be around normal people and hear normal conversation. People want to feel. So when people that are are seen as outliers are reacting towards the universe from what they're feeling on the inside as individuals, the whole spectrum of people that they know gets to feel something simultaneously. So when you are acting on something that you're feeling inside as an individual, as Trevor, around people, myriads of them that know you that you don't know.

• 1:39:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  When you're acting on your feelings, it ripples towards everyone else that knows you. You don't have to know them. And then they start feeling something. They feel disappointment. They feel anger. They feel like you're being ungrateful because they're in places where they're feeling something. They don't wanna, they are suffering. When are you going, no, the pain of knowing that you will feel this way is worth it for me because staying was suffering. As an individual, I had to make this decision to have this pain so I can end the suffering, so I can walk towards something else. So we get to feel that from other people. A lot of people felt it. I was lucky enough to be around at at The Daily Show on the last week. And I could see the reaction of how it made people feel. I could feel the rumblings of the audiences before the takes started to happen.

• 1:40:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:19Speaker 02

  I could sit with you at the office, well, before you went on the show. Then we go to walk in the streets and go have food. And all I knew was you made the right decision. And I wish people that know you and I could know you the way I know you because they would know that that what you did came from a good place. I knew that you take, you took care of the people that worked closely with you. And some people that will never know that you took care of them in that space, in that job, in that particular environment. You left an everlasting legacy of kindness, of working together, of having everyone have a voice.

• 1:40:50Trevor Noah?

  I hope so.

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  I was, I was in one of your writing sessions. And I would feel like the energy say something. And then you would be like, yeah, say, but if you don't wanna also say, or can also not say. But that's the culture that you bred. But those are the things that people are not gonna queue up and tell you about. That's what you must know innately inside of you as a human being that. My reactions are always gonna cause a ripple effect to people that know me that I don't know. But they're only reacting towards who I am, not what I am.

• 1:41:17Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  Cause you've changed what you were. You were a host. But who you are is Trevor. You've changed what you were, a boss, but who you are is a friend. You've changed all of those things and of course there was gonna be suffering. There was gonna be suffering from people don't wanna let you go, but you let them go first because you're teaching them.

• 1:41:35Speaker 05

  A lot of what you guys are speaking about are just, a lot of them touch very similar to like Buddhist principles. Of like non-attachment, living in the now. Without worrying too much about the future and our thoughts of suffering.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:41:51Speaker 05

  Are suffering, it's suffering.

• 1:41:54Speaker 02

  It is suffering.

• 1:41:55Speaker 05

  So even if you're not suffering, you're thinking about suffering, you're suffering. But I think the the main one that you guys are speaking about that's like. The same thing over and over is the thought of non-attachment.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:42:05Speaker 05

  So non-attachment to the job. You know, non-attachment to, to, to, to financial things and worldly things and.

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  Or titles.

• 1:42:13Speaker 05

  Or titles, you know, a lot of what you guys are speaking about, I think is non-attachment.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Hmm. You know, you know, one of, one of the, one of the biggest lessons I learned in processing Leaving the Daily Show.

• 1:42:24Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  Was when I'd have conversations with people on the outside and on the inside. But I realized something that we oftentimes haven't been taught.

• 1:42:32Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  To go back to the beginning of our conversation about loss and life.

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  We haven't been taught that things will end.

• 1:42:42Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:42:43Speaker 02

  And we haven't been taught to say goodbye in a healthy way.

• 1:42:46Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  Hmm. So what we do is.

• 1:45:14Trevor Noah?

  I have a terminal illness. I'm still able to move, I'm still able to laugh, I'm still able.

• 1:45:18Speaker 02

  And I'm enjoying these things.

• 1:45:19Trevor Noah?

  And you know what, guys? I've had a great time, I'm out.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  I had a good run.

• 1:45:22Trevor Noah?

  Yo, people are like, no, how dare you? Ah, you've got to fight and you've got to this and they go like, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  I'm fine.

• 1:45:30Trevor Noah?

  I've got to say goodbye and I want you to say goodbye.

• 1:45:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:45:33Trevor Noah?

  And I want you to see me like this and all, but the reaction that people give them. Man, and I understand it both ways, by the way, I don't think one is wrong or right, but I understand it. I understand somebody going, no, I want to say goodbye when I'm ready. But to your point, and I know I'm guilty of this, sometimes you'll never be ready. Because you you're not practicing saying goodbye. You haven't starved yourself.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:45:56Trevor Noah?

  And so if you haven't practiced it and if you don't know how to say goodbye, you'll never be ready. Because then when are you ready for somebody to die?

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  Always.

• 1:46:05Trevor Noah?

  But you get what I'm saying?

• 1:46:06Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:06Trevor Noah?

  You're never ready.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:07Trevor Noah?

  And then when it happens, you then now experience the thing and now you now you had a gravestone going like, I didn't say goodbye. I wish I could have said this, I wish I could have said this, you know? So it's it's really weird how literally you're one of those people who where I go like, yeah, no, Eugene, if there's one thing you taught me in life. It's like, yo, man. Practice saying goodbye.

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:46:28Trevor Noah?

  And I think unfortunately, and in some ways fortunately, because there's still the linings, I guess, life has like really amplified the lesson that you've taught me through the losses you've experienced.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  Hmm. How did the last day feel? Did it feel like a you're walking out and you could come back again anytime? Did it feel like you've walked out of this door before? Or did you know you're leaving the chapter behind?

• 1:46:57Trevor Noah?

  The the week my grandmother died was the first and only week I've canceled shows at The Daily Show.

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  In the seven years?

• 1:47:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. I had an appendix surgery, I came back to work, I missed one day of work, came back post-surgery. I've had knee surgeries, I've worked, you know, you name it, through the pandemic, all of it. My grandmother dying was the first time I canceled shows at The Daily Show.

• 1:47:29Trevor Noah?

  And I'll never forget, like, when I said, hey, man, we're cancelling the shows. The network said, okay, we'll do, we'll do, we'll get the correspondents to host.

• 1:47:45Trevor Noah?

  And then I was like, no, we're gonna cancel the shows. And they said, we understand that you're grieving, but yeah, we're gonna like, in a weird way, like, the show must go on. And I remember thinking, my grandmother came on and did an episode for The Daily Show. Like, we needed an episode. We were in South Africa. My grandmother welcomed us into her house, and she's not even that kind of person. But it was amazing to see, I was like, these people, I was like, she's part of this thing. I'm not just the one mourning. The Daily Show has to mourn this thing in some way, because it was a part of it. You know? And so that all happened, and I'm at home, and I was crying like I've never cried in my life.

• 1:48:27Trevor Noah?

  And then everyone came over, you know, and I'll never forget this. David Kibuka came over, Joseph Opeo came over, David Meyer came over. Friends from, one from America, one from Uganda, one from South Africa. And they all came over to the house. Eugene, we sat there, and I cried, and then we laughed harder than I can ever remember laughing in my entire life. We laughed, talking about families and funerals and death and, you know, grandmothers and like, we, yo, man, we laughed and cried and laughed, and like, you don't even understand. And I, I remember the feeling that I was having in that moment was

• 1:49:12Trevor Noah?

  a feeling of deep gratitude that I had got to experience this human being who was my gran.

• 1:49:20Trevor Noah?

  And in a similar way, that definitely didn't have the same level of profoundness. I felt that on the last day of The Daily Show.

• 1:49:33Trevor Noah?

  There are few things more blessed in this life than being able to grieve when something is still around. Because grief is unprocessed joy.

• 1:49:45Trevor Noah?

  It's all rushing into you at the same time.

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  Hmm, mixed emotion.

• 1:49:49Trevor Noah?

  It's all, beyond mixed, it's all of it at the same time. It's every smile, every hug, every kiss, every laugh, every meal, every, it's all coming in at the same time. And that's why your body feels that, I feel, is like, it's, it's, it's, it's all of it at the same time. Every hug.

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  Prompted by one motion.

• 1:50:05Trevor Noah?

  Yo, man, one, one, one thing happened and now it all comes to you at the same time.

• 1:50:12Trevor Noah?

  But you know how wonderful it is to experience that when the thing is still alive? Do you know what I mean?

• 1:50:16Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:50:17Trevor Noah?

  That's what I got to do with The Daily Show.

• 1:50:21Trevor Noah?

  The show didn't get cancelled, I didn't get fired, what a beautiful way to, to move on.

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  You're still healthy?

• 1:50:28Trevor Noah?

  We got, yeah, we got to grieve it but still be there. We got to, you know, it's, it's, it's that phrase which I, I, I, it's always stuck with me and I love it. I go like, man, I wish we could all attend each other's funerals while we're still alive.

• 1:50:41Trevor Noah?

  Cause then what would we say?

• 1:50:43Speaker 02

  While I'm here.

• 1:50:44Trevor Noah?

  What, how would we connect? You know how many people you're gonna see at your friend's funeral that you didn't connect with? Because you were just like, eh, but now at the funeral, you'd be like, hey man, we should, we should get that drink.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:50:54Trevor Noah?

  Hey man, we should, why don't we hang out anymore?

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  Cause all the things that you would say.

• 1:50:58Trevor Noah?

  That's exactly.

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  Wish we.

• 1:51:00Trevor Noah?

  But why don't we have a funeral while the person is still alive? Now we're gonna go there and tell the person how we feel about them. Now we're gonna tell a funny story about how wonderful they are as a person and the stupidest thing they ever did. Now we're gonna connect with each other. But why, why do we only wait for death to remember life? And so it's not impossible. It's not impossible. I just think it's hard because as you say, we get lazy, we, we, we're taught we don't have to do it. We, we've been sold this idea that it's not, you never, it, it'll come, it'll, no, but like genuinely, I go try it.

• 1:51:32Speaker 02

  You know, we had this type of conversation, but not obviously in this depth. While we were standing there, you came back and you were standing at your place and then. And then I looked at the shoes by the door and I was like, wow, there's so many shoes here. And then you looked at me and you said, Eugene, people are not supposed to walk in with shoes in this house.

• 1:51:50Trevor Noah?

  This is my place in New York.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  Then I was like, oh, as I looked at my feet and I saw my shoes on my feet.

• 1:52:03Speaker 02

  And it's it's just that you know this, obviously personally, I'm a very private person on social media.

• 1:52:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  I don't put out my life. But if there's one and if there's one thing that I wish people knew about you, a few things, how nice you are as a human being.

• 1:52:20Trevor Noah?

  Oh, shucks. Thanks.

• 1:52:21Speaker 02

  Um, how how generous you are as a person, and I'm talking about your time. And how loving you are to everyone, because I think us all as your friends, you know our stories personally.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  As your friends, we don't feel like we are part of a group. Everyone feels like they know you and you know them. And when I experienced you at work, remember, I know you from Horror Cafe. I know you from your polo. I know you from tracksuit, gray tracksuit pants, running to the airport, going to start a new life and a new career. And then I get to see the same guy at this, at the helm of this huge institute, what became an institution in American pop culture. And I see the same guy who asks the P A, have you eaten? Is there something that I can do? Did you order that thing? Is that thing? Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Good night. And I see you doing that. And I'm going,

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  I wish people could see this and know this about you, how nice and caring of a person you are. I've never caught you on a bad day. They've never caught you on a bad day. You are a genuinely nice person. And I always, whenever I think of what we are going to do when you say, let's hang out. I always go, I know what I'm going to get here. If there's one thing that's gonna happen here, is I'm gonna experience generosity, kindness, not a bad word about anyone, and just pure.

• 1:53:43Trevor Noah?

  Some bad words.

• 1:53:44Speaker 02

  Pure childlike joy. And you know, people around you will never have less of that ever, as long as you're still here and the day you're gone, because we're all gonna go at some point. But this is what you must know about yourself. Is you have it in you. It's not a thing that you earned through money, through fame, through success. You were born into it. That's why your grandmother asked you to lead a prayer. She saw something in you that a lot of the world was soon to see. And she just wanted you to take center stage and claim it. That there's an inner power in you that makes people gravitate towards you, that make people go, I believe in what you're saying. And a lot of what you're experiencing is because of that. You were groomed to be that person of a shining beacon. You bring your friends together.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  You brought an office together. And now here you are bringing all of us together. And these people will get to hear what I have to say because of you. So you must be proud of yourself. When you go to bed, when you're closing your checking account like I usually do.

• 1:54:38Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 1:54:39Speaker 02

  Take that one thing off. Be proud of yourself for being a nice and kind person who has no bad word to say about anyone.

• 1:54:45Trevor Noah?

  Damn Eugene.

• 1:54:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean it.

• 1:54:49Trevor Noah?

  You know, it's funny. You just made me realize why I want to do this series of my favorite people.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:54Trevor Noah?

  Is literally because of what we said.

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:56Trevor Noah?

  It's like one, people often ask me why I am the way I am.

• 1:55:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:55:00Trevor Noah?

  Then I go like, I'm not the way I am.

• 1:55:03Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:55:03Trevor Noah?

  I'm just a manifestation of the way we are. And the we is all the people in my life.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:55:08Trevor Noah?

  You know, so I go, you can't watch my comedy and not know Eugene Cozer.

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:55:13Trevor Noah?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:55:14Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:55:14Trevor Noah?

  You can't see how I think about life and not see Eugene Cozer. You can't like this. And everyone in my life has that in a different way.

• 1:55:19Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:55:20Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I'm saying? But you like, yeah, man, you blessed me again. Cause you, you've like clearly given me an idea of like why, cause I knew why I wanted to do this.

• 1:55:31Trevor Noah?

  But I didn't know, like, or rather I knew what I wanted to do. I myself didn't know like the why. And I think this is, this is the why. Thank you, my friend.

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:55:42Trevor Noah?

  This is dope. Now let's go and say some bad words about people.

• 1:55:47Speaker 05

  I just wanna know, I know we've shouted out Buddhism here, but we haven't shouted out Tabism. He was the first one who taught us to say goodbye.

• 1:55:57Speaker 05

  Tab taught us to say goodbye. And he.

• 1:56:00Trevor Noah?

  Bye bye.

• 1:56:01Speaker 05

  Deal with us now in this room.

• 1:56:02Trevor Noah?

  Bye, bye bye. Come on, this was dope. Thanks Eugene.

• 1:56:12Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jodie Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackel. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now.

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

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• 1:57:15Speaker 03

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