Kara Swisher: Tech, Power, and Why You Should Get the F*cking Duck

Trevor and Eugene Khoza have a wide-ranging conversation with tech journalist Kara Swisher as she spills the tea on how to get a wife, the early optimism of tech, how our tech oligarchs need to think bigger, and much, much more!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Kara Swisher is widely considered the most powerful and plugged in reporter in the world of big tech.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Kara Swisher knows Silicon Valley as well as anyone. My source tonight is the veteran tech insider Kara Swisher, the host of the podcast On With Kara Swisher and Pivot. Who do you consider your competitors?

• 0:16Speaker 02

  You tend to go wrong by focusing too much on competition.

• 0:19Trevor Noah?

  We want to dominate the great next global industry.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Do you feel like it's a backlash or that you feel like you're violating people's privacy? What do you do all day?

• 0:27Speaker 04

  Most people think not enough.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  There is no better expert, so I gotta go to you on this. You've been following how these tech companies deal with misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy theories, and you've seen the struggle.

• 0:39Speaker 04

  If we want innovation in the future in AI, in robotics, in advanced medical stuff, we have to have a robust pipeline of talent from across the globe.

• 0:54Speaker 04

  This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.

• 1:02Trevor Noah?

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• 1:37Trevor Noah?

  This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. You know what's really frustrating? Knowing the exact information you need is somewhere on your phone, but still ending up wasting your time digging through five different apps just to actually find it. Thankfully, Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini intelligence, so it can proactively find the information I need right when I need it. Like my flight info on travel days or my calendar when Eugene texts me to hang out. Oh, sorry Eugene, I'm booked. Learn more about what Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages for users 18 and over, and make sure to check responses.

• 2:22Trevor Noah?

  You're booked forever, forever.

• 2:25Trevor Noah?

  This episode is brought to you by Verizon.

• 2:29Trevor Noah?

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• 3:14Trevor Noah?

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• 3:46Trevor Noah?

  At the end of this podcast?

• 3:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:48Trevor Noah?

  You would have taught me a thing or two. The pictures are amazing.

• 3:52Speaker 04

  What do you mean, like the composition and everything? No, he said, "Where did you learn how to do selfies?" And actually, Kim Kardashian taught me.

• 3:57Trevor Noah?

  No, are you being serious? I didn't expect that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  I showed you, I showed this one.

• 4:02Trevor Noah?

  Not, not, yeah, but show, show him what he, what she taught you.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  So she was teaching me duck face.

• 4:07Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 4:07Speaker 04

  And that, and that time we were together. So she's like, "Here's how you do it." And she showed me, she has a light, this loomy light around her camera. It's right there. That's how the picture looked.

• 4:18Trevor Noah?

  Kim Kardashian taught you how to take selfies?

• 4:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:20Trevor Noah?

  But you're day-to-day.

• 4:21Speaker 04

  She's good at it.

• 4:22Trevor Noah?

  No, I mean, I'm assuming that she's brilliant. Pictures of family.

• 4:26Speaker 04

  Oh, oh.

• 4:26Trevor Noah?

  Oh, those are, oh.

• 4:28Speaker 04

  All right.

• 4:29Trevor Noah?

  Every time I've tried to take it, it looks like I'm using a Nokia 3210.

• 4:33Trevor Noah?

  That phone did not have a camera.

• 4:35Speaker 04

  That's what I was about to say. I was like, I don't know why that image was.

• 4:38Trevor Noah?

  Was even better for me because the Nokia thirty two ten doesn't have a camera.

• 4:42Speaker 04

  Well, why are you saying?

• 4:45Trevor Noah?

  My pictures look like there's someone with a sketchpad and.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  Oh, man. All right.

• 4:49Trevor Noah?

  You are so good at picture.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  That's all four of them with their babysitter, both at the same.

• 4:55Trevor Noah?

  You know, I didn't know what to expect, but you're not wrong.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  No, there they are.

• 4:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the the composition.

• 5:00Speaker 04

  That's them.

• 5:00Trevor Noah?

  The lighting.

• 5:01Speaker 04

  Looking like a pile.

• 5:02Trevor Noah?

  But where you're standing at.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Pig pile, see?

• 5:06Speaker 04

  They love doing that. But we just put a sheet up behind us and took the sheet.

• 5:10Trevor Noah?

  And then you just jumped in.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, uh huh, yeah, yeah.

• 5:13Trevor Noah?

  Do you think, do you think the cameras are actually getting better?

• 5:15Speaker 04

  They're so good. The new camera on the I, the new I.

• 5:18Trevor Noah?

  Do you leave your phone portrait unlocked or locked?

• 5:21Speaker 04

  I let it decide whatever it's gonna do. Yeah, these are amazing computers. They're astonishing.

• 5:25Trevor Noah?

  No, I'm I'm just always intrigued by which people keep it locked or keep it unlocked.

• 5:29Speaker 04

  Unlocked, because if I want to watch something.

• 5:32Trevor Noah?

  So if you turn it sideways, does it turn?

• 5:34Speaker 04

  Yes, lock it.

• 5:36Trevor Noah?

  I've just explained to you now. Do you, do you know what? The pictures that I take. Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 5:40Speaker 04

  No, he doesn't.

• 5:41Trevor Noah?

  Eugene is the perfect person to have this conversation with us.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:44Trevor Noah?

  Because he's like a mega Luddite, but without trying to be.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  There's, there's a thing called the lock screen on this. You lock it and it doesn't, when you do, you do that, it doesn't do it. You unlock it. And then if you're watching a movie or, or something on YouTube.

• 5:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. Just do everything in real time.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  Except you're in, you're, you're in.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  It is now unlocked. Now it's locked. Yeah, there you go. There.

• 6:04Trevor Noah?

  It's like, keep it unlocked.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  Keep it unlocked in case you're watching like.

• 6:07Trevor Noah?

  If you want to turn your screen. Then it just. But I don't like, I don't like my screen turning when I turn the screen.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 6:14Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean? I'm very intentional about those moments. So sometimes what I don't like is it will turn when I'm not trying to turn.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  That's right. That's right.

• 6:20Trevor Noah?

  I just want to look at my phone from a different angle.

• 6:22Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, then you should lock it.

• 6:23Trevor Noah?

  Oh, sometimes you're just minding your business going hmm, and then it goes. Yeah, and then it turns. I don't like that. So I'm like, don't turn for me.

• 6:29Speaker 04

  Turn.

• 6:30Trevor Noah?

  I will tell you when it's time to turn. Plus, a lot of the apps that have come out now, they um, they auto-rotate when you go into like a full screen mode.

• 6:37Speaker 04

  That's right. They do. They can.

• 6:38Trevor Noah?

  So I feel like it's a.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  You feel like your free will is taken.

• 6:41Trevor Noah?

  This is, this is exactly what I'm. So would you say?

• 6:44Speaker 04

  This is autocracy, really.

• 6:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  If you really wanna get into it.

• 6:47Trevor Noah?

  This is my true challenge in life.

• 6:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:49Trevor Noah?

  So I must keep it. No, you do what you want, see what your vibe is, but at least now you know. Cause Karish Swisher has told. By the way, um, welcome to the podcast and more importantly, happy birthday.

• 7:00Speaker 04

  It's not my birthday.

• 7:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I feel like it's never your birthday.

• 7:02Speaker 04

  No, it's never. I put birthdays all over the internet and nobody knows my birthday.

• 7:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but then I feel like, I should say happy birthday to you.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  Every month is my birthday.

• 7:12Trevor Noah?

  You know, when I read this about you, I was like, this is one of the craziest things and most amazing things I've ever. When did you start doing this?

• 7:19Speaker 04

  In nineteen ninety-three, nineteen ninety-two, three.

• 7:22Trevor Noah?

  You put up your first fake birthday?

• 7:23Speaker 04

  No, no, I did that later, after I realized what was happening with the privacy stuff, which was relatively soon. I just kept telling different things. There's a, there's a correct birthday up there. They've found the real birthday, so.

• 7:34Trevor Noah?

  But you just keep.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  I just change it and tell people different things and just I put it up in places. I'll change it at different places just to, just because I don't want people necessarily to know my birthday. Cause I was really worried about privacy from the get-go.

• 7:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  When, when AOL started, I started covering AOL in the nineties. And that was the first, you know, iteration of where we are today, popular one. There were others. There was, you know, there were all kinds of, um, message boards and things like that, but it was real complicated. And if you didn't, it was not easy to use. And so AOL was the first commercial interpretation of what we see today. And that wasn't even the internet. That was a service that was then attached to the internet. That was, you know, it was not the internet. It was like a walled garden approach. And the minute I saw what AOL was doing, I realized they were scraping and stealing information so they could take advantage of you and sell advertising.

• 8:26Trevor Noah?

  You knew this in nineteen ninety-three?

• 8:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was obvious what they were doing. What did they need all this information? Why were advertising come back that were based on my searches and stuff? And then when Google was there, I got it right away. You understood what they're. Although initially, Google's business model was not advertising. They didn't have one, actually. They came upon advertising.

• 8:48Trevor Noah?

  This is, I remember using AOL.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 8:51Trevor Noah?

  And I don't know what it was like in America, but in South Africa, we didn't really have these services full on.

• 8:57Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 8:58Trevor Noah?

  So we would get a, a CD.

• 9:00Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:01Trevor Noah?

  A disc.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  Everybody did.

• 9:02Trevor Noah?

  Oh, that was the same.

• 9:03Speaker 04

  Yes, everybody, that was their method of marketing.

• 9:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and I could only access it for like, it was like thirty minutes, like each disc gave me thirty minutes.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  To try it out, to try it out.

• 9:12Trevor Noah?

  And then that was, but in my world, I didn't know when the next disc would come. So I'd go in these little chat rooms and these, like, I'd make friends on these chat sites.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:20Trevor Noah?

  You know, and I remember it was like age, sex, location, ASL.

• 9:23Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:23Trevor Noah?

  And you type that in.

• 9:24Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:25Trevor Noah?

  And then I would go, you know, age, uh, male and location, South Africa, then people would be like, you're lying.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 9:30Trevor Noah?

  That was the first thing everyone said, you're lying.

• 9:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:32Trevor Noah?

  Like, there's no internet in Africa.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Ah, yes, there is. Well, there's not as much, I'll tell you that, that was.

• 9:37Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but they were like, there's no internet in Africa.

• 9:39Speaker 04

  Right.

• 9:39Trevor Noah?

  And then I would say, sort of like your birthday thing, I would go, well, I'm the prince of my village. And I have the one computer. And you know what's crazy? That's when they accepted it. You're not a prince?

• 9:48Speaker 04

  Ah.

• 9:49Trevor Noah?

  They're like, that makes sense.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  The prince of, uh.

• 9:50Trevor Noah?

  That makes sense. Welcome to the internet.

• 9:52Speaker 04

  It's interesting you say that about Africa, because in the early days, Google had this amazing visualization when you entered the company. It was a small company at the time. And it would show a globe where all the information requests were coming from. And it was different colors based on language. And so it was sort of a light visualization. So it would show the amount of questions being asked around the world. And it would be like beams of light, almost like skyscrapers, right? And you see New York, big skyscraper and lots of languages. Or, and you'd spin around to Europe and there'd be a lot with lots of like Germany, had German, French, whatever they were speaking. And you see lots of light. And you would spin around to different, Asia was just a bright because they were using internet.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  And because the cables that went across the, the seas were, were linking all these countries, right? Africa had almost no light coming off of it. It was, and I remember turning to Sergey or Larry, I, I can't ever tell them apart at this point. And, uh, and I said, what's going on? And they, he, he said, they're not asking questions. I said, no, they're not allowed to ask questions because they don't have access. They have questions. So you know, this whole asking questions is about modernity when you ask questions and they weren't, this one continent was not able to ask questions. They didn't have the fiber laid. But when wireless showed up, it grew really fast because then, whether it be satellite or whatever happens to be, they got, they had, fiber is

• 11:18Speaker 04

  a problem ultimately. So when wireless happened, it changed.

• 11:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, like the physical infrastructure in most developing nations is the hottest thing to get going.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Doesn't exist. Yeah.

• 11:27Trevor Noah?

  But that's why wireless became the revolution.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 11:30Trevor Noah?

  So in, in South Africa, and I think many parts of Southern Africa and India, we actually leapfrogged the United States.

• 11:35Speaker 04

  You did.

• 11:35Trevor Noah?

  In our connectivity and speed.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Connectivity and speed.

• 11:37Trevor Noah?

  Like I remember visiting America and 3G wasn't a thing here and people were still on like old CDMA technology, like a GPRS.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  That's for another reason because the companies didn't want to modernize. And so, you know, one of the things we did, and I didn't interview at the time the head of the FCC, and the US had the most expensive internet access and the least fast. So I was like, oh, so we're getting shitty service for the most expensive price. And it was because of the way these things were monopolies and they didn't, you know, they, whatever the cable, the cable barons didn't own a certain section and whether they decided to modernize or not was when things got modernized. And so there was no competition and they tried to keep satellite out, they tried to keep all kinds of things out in the United States because we let these corporations rule the roost, as we always do. And that's

• 12:26Speaker 04

  why it was so slow to get here. Competition is what everything is about in general.

• 12:31Trevor Noah?

  There's two things you've said that, that just sparked like, sort of how we should be looking at tech even through today's lens. The first one was when you said, you're at Google, you're talking to the two people who've started Google.

• 12:42Speaker 04

  Right.

• 12:42Trevor Noah?

  They have a device that tracks where people are asking questions from in the world. They see no questions from Africa and they're like, man, these Africans aren't asking questions.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  Well, that was their first thing. And also what they also had is.

• 12:53Trevor Noah?

  What I'm saying to that point, so, and I want to hear what you're going to say after that, but it's wild to me that.

• 13:00Trevor Noah?

  People who are like sort of seen as shaping the world and the most intelligent weren't intelligent enough to come to the conclusion.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  I don't think they're the most intelligent. I don't.

• 13:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but that's how they're seen is what I mean.

• 13:10Speaker 04

  Well, of course, because we we have to make these people into gods, right? They're magicians or gods. They're not gods. They're just people and very broken people. Many of them. I mean, look at Elon Musk from your country.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Wow, wow, wow, Kara. Wow. Damn, damn. The way she just threw that at us from your country.

• 13:27Speaker 04

  He's a I am.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  It was so slick.

• 13:29Speaker 04

  He's a proud immigrant. He just happens to be.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  She threw a ninja star at us.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  And look at Elon Musk, that crazy bastard from your country.

• 13:42Speaker 04

  I meant that as a compliment. I meant that as a compliment. Uh, he was an export into this country.

• 13:48Trevor Noah?

  Okay, we'll take that.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Good for us for letting him in. That was great, you know? Uh, maybe not today, but yes, for a while, for sure. Um, but, uh, yeah, he should. Well, he should go to Mars. Let's just be clear. Let's not. Let's send him to Mars. Let's move him to another.

• 14:04Trevor Noah?

  I sometimes think he's just trying to get home.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Oh, to Mars? Yeah.

• 14:08Trevor Noah?

  Like, what if we found out that Elon Musk was an alien who's always just been trying to go home?

• 14:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:12Trevor Noah?

  It wouldn't be the most shocking thing when you think about it.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  You're right.

• 14:14Trevor Noah?

  You look at his mannerisms, the way he jumps, his vibe, the way he he doesn't like really understand human empathy the same way.

• 14:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:21Trevor Noah?

  What if the guy's just trying to go home?

• 14:22Speaker 02

  So he's a trapped alien who's trying to get home?

• 14:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes, because he can't tell us he's an alien.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  There's been movies like that. Remember where they're like?

• 14:28Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, very well done. Yeah, well done.

• 14:32Trevor Noah?

  Like, so if you were an alien who was trapped on Earth and you knew you had advanced technology.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  So he's the only one here?

• 14:38Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Of his kind?

• 14:39Trevor Noah?

  You have super advanced technology.

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:42Trevor Noah?

  How? You're not gonna come out and tell humans I'm an alien. You know what we'd do to you.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 14:46Trevor Noah?

  You know?

• 14:46Speaker 04

  He'd dissect you, obviously.

• 14:48Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  The bigger question should be, why did they send him here?

• 14:51Trevor Noah?

  No, but they said they sent him.

• 14:52Speaker 04

  Maybe he got stuck.

• 14:53Trevor Noah?

  I like this.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  He got lost?

• 14:54Speaker 04

  Maybe he got lost.

• 14:55Trevor Noah?

  Maybe his maybe his spaceship broke down.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  His pod.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  And where where is it?

• 14:59Trevor Noah?

  What do you mean?

• 14:59Speaker 04

  Fell in the sea.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Or so he was in the sea and then he swam.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  To South Africa.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  He's an alien, so he's got fish like ten species.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  And how do you explain his raised dad?

• 15:08Trevor Noah?

  Oh, that's a tough one.

• 15:10Speaker 04

  He buys sperm.

• 15:11Trevor Noah?

  Maybe, okay, maybe. Maybe it's maybe it's like Clark Kent Superman.

• 15:15Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 15:16Trevor Noah?

  Maybe his dad like found his pod and then has just been raising him.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  So he was out fishing?

• 15:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:21Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden there was a.

• 15:22Speaker 04

  Floating. Yeah, and then he and then he and then he raised him. And then he gave him a meat suit. There you go. Yeah. Ah. Mm hmm. Good. What what was he before? Was he like a weird blob? We don't know. We'll never know. We'll never know. Until we get to Mars, we'll never know Elon's true form. Well, we actually know what people look like on Mars. If they actually today, interestingly, you're talking about they they found some bias. Uh, bio on Mars. It was a speckled rock and it has. What? They found something that's akin to life there. It's not a person, but it's it's a. I think it feels like it's almost like lichen or something on this rock. It's a speckled rock with bio. Material. That's what they're calling it on it. Yeah. So that life does. Well, water exists there. Lots of stuff exists there. So.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  There's a possibility of further life. That said, interestingly, I just interviewed a bio, uh, an astro biologist and physicist. And he and he was noting he was he wrote a book called his name's Adam Becker, wrote more everything forever, which is a sort of. Motto of tech people, which is not, you can't have more everything forever, right? But they think that. And so he was blowing up the Mars idea because Mars is they've got gravity issues. They've got massive radiation issues. It's constantly hit by. Um, comets and asteroids and stuff like that. And so he was like, literally. The the worst day on earth is better than the best day on Mars, like because you have to live below ground, like deep into the ground.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  You have to um, protect yourself from radiation. You your bones get get, I think, more brittle. I I'm not sure what happened, but you get shorter is what happens. I'm I'm. And you get stupider and if and you get stupider when you're there. And so you do become, you know, these depictions of Martians as sort of mole people. It's actually kind of accurate. That's what would happen to humans there. That could be us. Right. This this is sometimes where I think of like, you know, like the sci fi stories. And hot too. Yeah. At the same time? Different time. Alternately. No, no, on the same day, like they the. It just like goes, it oscillates between. Oscillates. Yeah. And you age really quickly, which is another thing. So. There's no reason to want to go there. Yeah, at all. You didn't sell it well.

• 17:32Trevor Noah?

  What is their obsession with it?

• 17:33Speaker 04

  Cause you can get to it.

• 17:34Trevor Noah?

  No, but I but I but I mean, like, I wonder if you've garnered an insight, you know, going back to what we were talking about. These men are seen, in today's world at least, they're seen as like demi gods. I've I've talked to people who genuinely believe that you should never ever question Elon Musk.

• 17:52Speaker 04

  Not anymore, not anymore. That's changed recently.

• 17:55Trevor Noah?

  Slowly, yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 04

  I don't know. I think their their their brand is not great these days. I mean, Elon's brand.

• 18:00Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Was quite high. And now it's, I think he was the most hated person in America recently, I mean, over Trump. In a poll, one of these polls, I was surprised. I was like, not Trump, it's him, it's actually. It's actually Elon Musk? Yeah.

• 18:14Trevor Noah?

  Cause he went against Trump, that was a mistake.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  No, that's not why. That's not why. It was decline. It was already, because he acts like an asshole, like, you know. And he showed himself, he showed his ass. I mean, that's what he did. He showed his ass. And I think you noticed. Wow, he's a little strange. Wow, he's cutting without indiscriminately. Wow, he doesn't know what he's talking about. He kept showing his ass. And you were like, oh, wait a minute. Yeah, he is. And and just jumping up and down, saying, tweeting things about how we need more white people on the planet and etcetera. You start to be like, sort of repelled by it. And you look at the brand, look, look, I don't have to prove it. I don't think it's just because. People don't like him that Tesla's sales have plummeted. I think that's part of it. Other part, he doesn't have a car anybody wants anymore, and there's lots of competition.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  China is is is tracking him all, you know, across the globe, BYD, making great innovative cars. All across the globe. In this country, a whole bunch of carmakers have great Rivian, or Ford has some great cars. Everybody's now competing, and Tesla hasn't innovated in a very long time, except for the Cybertruck. Which, as you know, is the ugliest car in existence. And no, and it hasn't been able to sell very many, except to. For men of problematic penis size.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Maybe a woman or two.

• 19:33Speaker 05

  How do we as a society avoid men of problematic penis sizes? Cause you're a parent of five.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Three, three men, yes. No, three, three young, two young men and one boy. Yes, yes. I don't know. I think it's really, it's, I think it's been with us forever. That's not a new, fresh insight.

• 19:51Trevor Noah?

  You know what I actually think? I actually think we are in a cycle. Like it's, it's a loop of life.

• 19:58Trevor Noah?

  We, we often forget that tech was the domain of the nerd. Right? Like, I know when I was burning CDs, like when I had my first CD-ROM, my first CD writer, my modem, when I was building my own little rig, when I, you know what I mean? When I was in that world, I can tell you now, that world did not brush up against anything cool or sexual.

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Yes, no, not at all.

• 20:22Trevor Noah?

  None of that.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Fast forward to today.

• 20:24Trevor Noah?

  There was no world where I could say to you, ah, my PCI slot got me closer to that woman. No, never happened.

• 20:31Speaker 05

  A lot of things are making sense about you now. A lot. And you know, I'm glad you're opening up about this. There's times where I have questions.

• 20:43Speaker 04

  There, you just had the manter when he said PCI slot.

• 20:46Speaker 05

  PCI slot.

• 20:47Speaker 04

  I know, yeah.

• 20:48Trevor Noah?

  It was, it was a complete.

• 20:48Speaker 04

  He was trying to make a sexual reference, but it didn't work.

• 20:50Trevor Noah?

  No, no, I wasn't at all. Genuinely.

• 20:52Speaker 05

  See?

• 20:52Trevor Noah?

  I promise you I wasn't.

• 20:54Speaker 05

  I wish he was.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  We heard it.

• 20:55Speaker 05

  I wish he was.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  I'm teasing you.

• 20:57Trevor Noah?

  No, genuinely. But I mean, like, it just wasn't.

• 20:59Speaker 04

  There's a lot of tech words that are very sexual, though.

• 21:01Trevor Noah?

  I'd never even thought of them in that way.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Put the floppy disk in.

• 21:04Trevor Noah?

  Wow. Okay. I would go with the stiffy, but.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  Hard drive, hard drive.

• 21:10Trevor Noah?

  Hard drive, yes, yes.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  There's all kinds of stuff like that.

• 21:12Trevor Noah?

  Yes, there are. So, so when I think of that world, right? There was a community that we would, we would form as nerds where we, you know, the bullies beat us up, the, it, it was just not the cool space to be in, right? Then money comes into it. It becomes money. It becomes the force that changes the world. And then what we forget is, this is a, like an entire.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  Higher generation of nerds who were bullied, who were always on the outside. That's part of it. And now society has just told them that they're the coolest people, but they didn't sort of like. I don't think they've ever been the coolest. I think you're going. No, but I'm sorry. They have money. They, society, it likes money. Yes. And money is attractive. But that's what I mean. And without the money, they would remain uncool. And the power, yeah. Right, exactly. And so, and even now, the way, like, for example, that dinner they all had, it was embarrassing to them. Oh, yeah, the dinner at the White House. Yeah, it was, I was like, you're the richest people in the world and you have to suck this guy's, you know, whatever. PCI slots. Yes, PCI. It was really quite something to see. It's like, what's the point of being the richest people in the world? If this is what you have to do. Aren't you exempt from that?

• 22:20Speaker 04

  But they're not. And so they, I don't think they look very cool. I thought they looked kind of like toadies. Pathetic toadies, but that's just me.

• 22:25Speaker 05

  Do you think maybe that's the side effect of being bullied as a young person?

• 22:29Speaker 04

  Not all of them were.

• 22:30Speaker 05

  You just wanna be with a cool guy. Doesn't it?

• 22:32Speaker 04

  No, no. Mark Cuban's pretty cool. He's pretty cool. He's always been cool, I think, for example. Mark Cuban. Was he like tech tech nerd in that way? He was, he's a tech nerd. Yeah. Yeah, he's just a different kind, you know? I think, I mean, Mark Zuckerberg is kind of classic. But actually, he was pretty popular in high school, from what I understand. He was not bullied. And it just depends. I think that, you know, it's because it's formed by Hollywood, like Revenge of the Nerds and those, and all those movies. And I think, you know, as tech became so important to all our lives, they, we began to recognize the importance of these characters in making us understand it and inventing it. But back in the day, Edison was a hero. All those people, all those inventors, Franklin, they were all heroes.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  So I think we've always loved the inventor. I think that's not a, a new thing. But you're right, there were these images of, like Bill Gates, for example, sort of was the quintessential. Yes. Nerd, right? But that image is, you know, when you, when you talk about, I love that you say the word inventors. Cause I.

• 23:33Trevor Noah?

  I watch every single um Apple event.

• 23:37Speaker 04

  Mm hmm. They just had one, yeah.

• 23:38Trevor Noah?

  Every WWDC, every new launch, every, you know, I'll watch the Pixel events. I watched the Google this. I watched, I watched them all.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 23:46Trevor Noah?

  And I don't know if I'm the only one, but I feel like over the past few years, I felt like it's less a club of inventors now.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, than marketers.

• 23:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it feels more like it's marketing and extraction. It doesn't feel like when you say these things, Edison, I go, yeah, but look at what Edison was trying to do.

• 24:02Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 24:03Trevor Noah?

  You know, Graham Bell, look what Graham Bell was trying, look what Tesla, the man was trying to do. None of these people were trying to think of a way for you to get your, like, your, your food fifteen minutes faster than you were getting it before.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:17Trevor Noah?

  That's not an invention, in my opinion.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  Well, it was interesting because at one point in, in, some of it was inventions, absolutely. And Steve Jobs sort of personified that. Although he wasn't a technical person, he was just, he was good at marketing and he was good at visionary, being visionary of what it should be. And he had enough technical expertise to, to spur inventors to make what he, what his vision was. Um, but one, at one point during the internet age, there, there was, it got so, I guess fucked up. That they were, someone came to me with like um digital dry cleaning service. I was like, this is not innovation. This is just.

• 24:53Trevor Noah?

  What do you, what do you mean a digital?

• 24:54Speaker 04

  You just ordered on an app. That's all. It was just an app and it was still dry cleaning. I'm like, are you gonna dry clean it digitally or, because that would be cool. But one of the things that I used to, someone said to me at the time, and I agree with it, was at one point Silicon Valley became um really smart people doing really small things. And that's what it felt like.

• 25:13Trevor Noah?

  Really smart people.

• 25:14Speaker 04

  So interesting, I have to say, and I spent a lot of time with him, was because, you know, he was talking about cars. He was talking about space. He was talking about Neuralink. He was talking about tunneling and Hyperloop. Whatever you think of those things and whether they work or not, they were big ideas.

• 25:30Trevor Noah?

  They were, yeah.

• 25:31Speaker 04

  And so, smart people working on small ideas is really quite. Deflating in a lot of ways. And I think a lot of it is that, right? And Steve Jobs was was perfect at making you see the vision of where it was going because, you know, this phone, even though it's they just released the skinny one. You I don't know if you saw it. It's got that bump on it. I saw it last night. The bump is weird.

• 25:53Trevor Noah?

  It's massive. It's also it's also lopsided. That's my problem. Like, maybe maybe it's just a

• 25:56Speaker 04

  Steve wouldn't have liked that. I have to say.

• 25:58Trevor Noah?

  If you're gonna make a phone that has a mega bump on the back,

• 26:01Speaker 04

  Make more bump.

• 26:02Trevor Noah?

  Make more bump, because then when I put the phone down, it's flat. Now you have a phone that has like one corner, and then it wobbles and it does a thing.

• 26:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:09Trevor Noah?

  Also, why am I resting my phone on the camera? I mean, maybe it's just me, but I'm like,

• 26:13Speaker 04

  Right. They have they have a case for it, but then it's now thick again.

• 26:16Trevor Noah?

  Point of the thin phone.

• 26:17Speaker 04

  Correct. I said this to this Apple executive and they're like, God, you're annoying still.

• 26:21Speaker 05

  I had to sit through this lecture last night.

• 26:24Speaker 04

  Oh, good. It is. So he's a hundred percent right. The wobble. The wobble.

• 26:28Trevor Noah?

  And not just the wobble. You make the thinnest phone.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:31Trevor Noah?

  And then you put a fat battery on it. And you tell me, look, we can put a battery. But then if I've got to put a fat battery on a thin phone, you've got me back to the fat phone.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  Give me back this.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  Okay, but the gains of the fat back and the wobble?

• 26:42Speaker 04

  No, it's no gains.

• 26:43Trevor Noah?

  There's no gains.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  No gains.

• 26:44Trevor Noah?

  I have one camera instead of three.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 26:46Trevor Noah?

  I have less battery life than I would have on the other one.

• 26:50Speaker 05

  Less battery with the bump on.

• 26:51Trevor Noah?

  It also charges slower.

• 26:52Speaker 04

  Right.

• 26:53Trevor Noah?

  Right? So it charges slower. I've got fewer speaker grills.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  Yes, that's right.

• 26:56Trevor Noah?

  Come on.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  I'm not loving this new one, I have to say. I you know what I do love? The new AirPods. Now, that's pretty that's those things are cool.

• 27:03Speaker 05

  Real time translation.

• 27:04Speaker 04

  Well, AirPods should be if it was a business by itself, it would be a massive business, right? And everyone made fun of them at the time they came out. If you remember, it was like, you look ridiculous. I'm like, no, no, these are fantastic. One of the things that to me will happen is someday we will have video cameras in them or some sort of camera. And it will start it will be your instead of wearing glasses, like which some people are working on. Uh, Face Meta has some. Apple obviously did Vision Pro. But um, these are where I think there's going to be visuals and then it's going to talk to you. But like in that movie, Her, it'll be talking to you and like, okay, up ahead is that person. Go to the left, go here. And it will you'll constantly be interacting with some sort of AI that will speak to you all day long.

• 27:46Trevor Noah?

  What's the first? That made you feel like you were living in the future. I I always love asking this to like tech lovers.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Oh, well, I'm a little older. The browser, the browser, the mosaic, the mosaic browser.

• 27:57Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Yes, because look, you had.

• 27:59Trevor Noah?

  So not the computer, that was like okay ish?

• 28:02Speaker 04

  They hadn't really innovated. I mean, there was that, there were a couple, not Dell's, what was the company? It's gone now. They had some small ones that were pretty cool, right? Actually, it's not true. There was, there was something called General Magic that created the General Magic Magic Device. And it was an iPhone before there was an iPhone.

• 28:21Trevor Noah?

  Like, how long are we talking?

• 28:22Speaker 04

  It was a lot of the people who worked on iPhone later. This was the eighties, essentially.

• 28:27Trevor Noah?

  No way.

• 28:27Speaker 04

  Can't remember. Remember, Apple had Newton, if you remember.

• 28:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, but I didn't know about General Magic.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  General Magic was before that, and a lot of the people moved to the Newton project. They kept trying to do it, right? And the guy Tony Fadell that ended up being critical to the the iPod worked at General Magic. Like, they were always trying to figure out this sort of, and and it actually goes back to Star Trek. That's what they were trying to make.

• 28:51Trevor Noah?

  That little device that.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  That's right, the communicator, the communicator, right? And so they were always trying to create that, and that was what that became. But General Magic had, and I have one, I have an original General Magic. Was a block. It just was too big, and it had pictures of mail on a desk with a mail with a mailbox and stuff like that. And you would, it has stylus, and it was just, it wasn't the right form factor, but it was directionally the correct version. If you look at that, you're like, you could see the straight line into this. Same thing with the glasses and stuff. I have one of the original Google glasses, which.

• 29:26Trevor Noah?

  Those massive?

• 29:27Speaker 04

  No, they weren't big, actually. Google Glass was quite skinny, and then it had this weird little thing, this little square. Yes, they were not massive. Vision Pro is massive, is is still big, and so are most of the metal ones, Oculus and everything else. Google Glass was small and it sat on your, it sat on, like it was very thin and then had a little thing. It just wasn't very functional. It didn't do much, right? And it would sit there. And one of the problems with it, when, when it first was introduced, I went to, my ex-wife worked for Google, so I went to a Christmas party and they had just introduced Google Glass, but nobody had them but the Google people. And so everyone on the boat, she was in that division, had the Google Glass on, on a boat. It was such a great scene. And they wouldn't let me have it. They're like, you can't have it. I'm like,

• 30:12Speaker 04

  thank you. And they're wearing it. And they were trying to, to advocate, to get it to go. You go, hello, Google, or you made, you said something like, hello, Google to it. Yeah. And then it would act. That was like the, yeah. Yes, that was, they have an action word, right? And they were all going, hello, Google. And they were turning on each other's Google Glass with the same thing. That is hilarious. Oh, my goodness. And at Google parties, they used to have really good food all the time. And they'd have like a mountain of shrimp, like really good shrimp. Like, and I sat there eating shrimp, like, this is the worst thing. Listening to, hello, Google, hello, Google. It was like, this is dystopia, but the shrimp is delicious. And, and they didn't realize nobody would interact like this. Or, and even Sergey, who wore them around

• 30:55Speaker 04

  all the time, he's one of the founders, Sergey Brin, he'd wear them everywhere. And they were so weird looking and unattractive. And he was wearing them at a Vanity Fair Oscar party. And he came up and he goes, nobody's talking to me. And I'm like, you're wearing those fucking Google Glass. No, celebrities don't want a picture at a party where they're smoking pot. Like, are you kidding me? Like, what do you, take them off? You're just walking around with a camera. Yes, exactly. And he goes, he goes, oh, what should I say? I said, say, I'm a billionaire. It'll work with these people. Like, take off the glasses, say, I'm a billionaire. But what happened with Google Glass, and I think eventually it'll get better, was, and I did say this to him and others at Google at the time, I said, congratulations, you've rendered, remember they went to Victoria's Secret and they all had them on? Do you remember that? No, I don't remember that, actually.

• 31:39Speaker 04

  So they had to introduce it, they did a Victoria's Secret event, and all the supermodels had them on. Oh, wow. And so I was there, and they go, what do you think? I go, you've just made supermodels unfuckable. How good for you.

• 31:52Speaker 04

  Well done, boys.

• 31:53Trevor Noah?

  That is technology.

• 31:54Speaker 04

  It was.

• 31:54Trevor Noah?

  Well done, guys.

• 31:55Speaker 05

  But I think everything she's explained is what I find wrong with technology. It almost feels like it makes you ignore the giant plate of shrimp in front of you.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  Right, well, but.

• 32:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you've never, what?

• 32:05Speaker 04

  Shrimp is delicious, by the way.

• 32:06Trevor Noah?

  No, but I like, I like asking you, you these things, because you've always been my, one of my non-techy friends.

• 32:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:12Trevor Noah?

  So you'll ask me questions and there's some tech that you'll adopt and then there's some tech that you won't.

• 32:16Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 32:16Trevor Noah?

  Like, whi- which tech do you think is actually meaningful? Do you, do you like even care?

• 32:22Speaker 05

  I think after the radio, we should have stopped.

• 32:24Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 32:25Trevor Noah?

  Jesus, Eugene.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  Okay, wow.

• 32:26Speaker 05

  We pushed it to television.

• 32:27Trevor Noah?

  I told this man, it's a lot, it's.

• 32:28Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm sold on television.

• 32:30Speaker 04

  I love the butter churn. You know what I actually like? You might like this, the Aura, although now they're working with the Defense Department, so fuck that. But, um, this ring is really, it's the beginning of the idea of monitoring your health a little bit.

• 32:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 04

  I find this to be really interesting and it gives you, I used to call a lot of these things unwearables because they were, it was like your steps. What does that, what does that tell you about your health? Does it tell you anything? Oh, I did 10,000 steps. Well, what does that mean? What should you do next?

• 32:58Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:58Speaker 04

  What I always wanted was a device either on your wrist or here in your ear. You'd eat a donut and we'd go, oh, that was a mistake. We'd talk to you and say, what you need to do is get up right now and walk a thousand steps and I'll tell you when you're done. Or what you need to do now is go get a kefir immediately and drink that down.

• 33:16Trevor Noah?

  Get those probiotics going.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Get those probiotic going. But I would like something that has actionable information. And this one, for, especially for sleep, really does, gives you data that you could actually pay attention to. And they have to start to interpret it, but that's the kind of thing you're hoping for.

• 33:31Speaker 05

  Wait.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  That would be useful. This is Aura, right?

• 33:32Speaker 05

  It's good for you and it makes you look committed.

• 33:35Speaker 04

  Yes, it does, yeah. It's kind of too big, though, because only guy, guys made this. Let me just say. It ha, it needs to be this big because of all the sensors in it.

• 33:42Trevor Noah?

  All the sensors on the inside.

• 33:43Speaker 04

  Eventually, it won't.

• 33:44Speaker 05

  There's space for your wedding ring.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  I, I never, I'm, I know I'm married, I don't wear it. Don't say anything. Shh. I don't like rings. I don't like rings. They make me feel like I'm captive. Just, I do this with a ring.

• 33:55Trevor Noah?

  On the hand?

• 33:56Speaker 05

  The ring itself on your finger makes you feel like?

• 33:58Speaker 04

  I don't like, I don't like rings.

• 34:00Trevor Noah?

  Some people, like jewelry in general.

• 34:03Speaker 05

  On their fingers.

• 34:04Trevor Noah?

  No, just even like around your neck as well, sometimes.

• 34:08Speaker 05

  You've never had a conversation with your wife about it?

• 34:11Speaker 04

  She would like me to wear it more, and I try. I try my best.

• 34:14Speaker 05

  How many times does this topic come up?

• 34:15Speaker 04

  Many times. Thank you for bringing it up. And now she'll listen to this, and we'll have another one. Let me just say something. Let me give you a little tip for reporting.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  Ask a man how his wife is sometime. I always start interviews with some weird personal question. Ask a man how their wife is. Many men do this.

• 34:33Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 34:34Speaker 04

  They start.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  They fidget with the ring?

• 34:35Speaker 04

  They fidget and take it off. Like, they don't, they, it's really interesting. Just try it.

• 34:39Trevor Noah?

  It's like it's burning them from the rings or something. That's like a weird.

• 34:43Speaker 04

  And they're always like, great, great, great. Everything's great. And I'm like, okay.

• 34:47Trevor Noah?

  I wonder if you could get all the data and see if there's any correlation between who took the ring off? And how their relationship turned out?

• 34:55Speaker 04

  Right, exactly.

• 34:56Trevor Noah?

  Because maybe that's like a tell that someone's giving you. Like, how's your relationship? And if they pulled the ring off and then answered you and then put it back on.

• 35:02Speaker 05

  And maybe you can tell us because you've never had it on.

• 35:03Trevor Noah?

  It's because they know when you put it on.

• 35:05Speaker 04

  Well, that said, I'm not subject to that.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  I'm only, I'm only wearing because I'm traveling. I usually take it off in the morning.

• 35:11Speaker 05

  So where do you keep the one that, that was blessed for this union?

• 35:15Speaker 04

  Blessed, yes, because the Catholic Church loves a gay marriage.

• 35:21Speaker 04

  It's in a box. It's in a nice, pretty box. It's a pretty box.

• 35:24Speaker 05

  And she was her.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  Probably from South Africa.

• 35:28Speaker 04

  From your country, from your country.

• 35:31Speaker 05

  I'm fascinated by this because earlier on I was telling you that I'm actually entertaining the concept

• 35:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:36Speaker 05

  of getting married.

• 35:37Speaker 04

  Okay, I, I have.

• 35:39Trevor Noah?

  What?

• 35:40Speaker 04

  I know, you just said that to me. You just told me.

• 35:42Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 35:43Speaker 05

  You see.

• 35:43Speaker 04

  You didn't know? Sorry.

• 35:44Speaker 05

  Remember when we were together, you said, maybe ask your friends?

• 35:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:47Speaker 05

  What did I say?

• 35:48Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 35:50Speaker 05

  No, I'm saying about us the friends.

• 35:51Speaker 04

  Oh, I said, have you fix him up?

• 35:54Trevor Noah?

  Let me explain what the where the what came from.

• 35:56Speaker 04

  And.

• 35:56Trevor Noah?

  The what came from me finding out on a podcast that we are sharing here from Kara Swisher.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:04Trevor Noah?

  That you are considering getting married.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Well, I'm a famous reporter, so that's clear.

• 36:09Speaker 05

  Also, I found out. That you were a weird nerd who was brushing up against nothing cool your whole life.

• 36:14Trevor Noah?

  You knew this about me.

• 36:15Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 36:15Trevor Noah?

  You've always known this about me.

• 36:16Speaker 05

  I Trevor, I didn't.

• 36:18Speaker 04

  He didn't know the shame that you had.

• 36:19Speaker 05

  I didn't know.

• 36:19Trevor Noah?

  I had no shame.

• 36:20Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 36:21Trevor Noah?

  There was no shame. I was just a nerd enjoying myself.

• 36:23Speaker 05

  Hundred percent shame.

• 36:23Speaker 04

  Wish he could date girls.

• 36:24Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell, let me tell you something. Let me tell you how much fun it was. Let me tell you something. Few things were more fun. Friday nights. I would be in my room. With my PC. With my PC. I'd have my PC.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 36:38Trevor Noah?

  And we had this deal in South Africa at the time where the, the, the, the, the service provider would give you internet. That like the, the cost of dialing up wouldn't go beyond a certain price from seven P M on Friday night until seven A M on Monday.

• 36:54Speaker 04

  Downtimes, yeah.

• 36:54Trevor Noah?

  Right? And the, so the maximum price was something like if uh one dollar essentially, which was, otherwise you could pay like a thousand dollars if you weren't careful.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  To be very expensive.

• 37:04Trevor Noah?

  So I'd wait, Friday night would come and I'd be sitting there with my, with my PC. I had my whole rig. I'd plugged in car speakers that I would find from wrecked cars. And I would, I created my own surround sound in my room.

• 37:18Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 37:18Trevor Noah?

  Right? So connected them all, had my winamp going.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  Winamp, of course.

• 37:22Trevor Noah?

  I'd wait for seven P M.

• 37:23Speaker 04

  Product.

• 37:24Trevor Noah?

  And I'd wait for seven P M and then seven P M would come, click that modem, get going.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  Nice, nice, well done.

• 37:31Trevor Noah?

  I'd get in and then my mom taught me how to make a uh rum and raisin whiskey concoction.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 37:41Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 37:41Trevor Noah?

  So I'd sit at home with a five liter, I don't know what that is, a gallon, I don't know how to convert these things, but of, of ice cream. Mixed with whiskey.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 37:51Trevor Noah?

  And then I would dip my cup in and I would sip it and then I would chat to strangers from all over the world.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  Good times.

• 37:57Speaker 05

  That was a normal Friday night for you.

• 37:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:59Trevor Noah?

  The best Friday night.

• 37:59Speaker 05

  This is the person that you want me to ask.

• 38:01Trevor Noah?

  Do you see any shame?

• 38:02Speaker 05

  Hundred percent.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  No.

• 38:03Trevor Noah?

  What?

• 38:04Speaker 04

  We're ashamed for you.

• 38:06Speaker 05

  We're ashamed of you.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  But I was really asking Cara about this. I was like, I really, I really, really wanna take that step. But my question to her was, is it better to do it with someone that you've known for a long time or get fixed up?

• 38:21Speaker 04

  No, I got fixed up on a blind date. My, my wife and I.

• 38:24Speaker 05

  Who fixed you up?

• 38:25Speaker 04

  Lydia Polgreen and her wife Candy fight.

• 38:28Speaker 05

  What did they, what did they see in you and her?

• 38:31Speaker 04

  So I had broken up with someone and I had, I had not ever been single my entire life. I went out with men too, many, many years when I was in high school and stuff. And I just hadn't been alone, like by myself. And I said, I'm gonna be alone for a year. I did one of those things.

• 38:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  And Candy called me and she texted me and said, can I fix you up with someone? I have two people. I have two different, she was kind of a matchmaker personality. And she said, I'll, I'll said, and I was, I actually was going to a funeral and I was like, well, how about after the funeral?

• 39:02Speaker 05

  Very practical.

• 39:03Speaker 04

  Right, exactly.

• 39:06Speaker 05

  I might intend not have death.

• 39:08Speaker 04

  I know, exactly. And, and I said, okay, but I'm not going out with anyone for a year. I'm not. I'm gonna, like, I literally just.

• 39:16Speaker 05

  How many months were you in now?

• 39:17Speaker 04

  A month, a month.

• 39:19Speaker 05

  One month in, still strong.

• 39:20Speaker 04

  A month and a half, maybe. And, and I, I said, okay, I'll go, I'll start with one. And we, we, they had a little dinner party kind of thing in Brooklyn. And I went and I think we got married. We had a baby a year later.

• 39:37Speaker 05

  Wow. You never got to number two?

• 39:39Speaker 04

  Never got, we did meet, I met number two later. Very nice. It was a very excellent choice, too.

• 39:43Speaker 05

  Wow. So was there a moment when you met number two where you were like, this could have been? Or was it no, like?

• 39:47Speaker 04

  No, I picked the right, I got the right one. She was, she, she picked the right one, actually. She picked the right one.

• 39:52Speaker 05

  Oh, because that was the first option that she had for you.

• 39:54Speaker 04

  That she picked.

• 39:55Speaker 05

  Oh, she put that as.

• 39:56Speaker 04

  Yes. And I really, really trusted her. And I think you should take advice from your friends. If they really care about you, they think about it.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  I got you, boo. Same wants to drink rum and raisin. I got used to drink rum and raisin, used to.

• 40:07Speaker 04

  Do you have someone for him?

• 40:08Speaker 05

  Used to.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  Do you?

• 40:09Speaker 05

  I can, I can figure it out. No ways. I got you. No ways. I got you. The only way, I got you. I only trust Trevor to pick the menu.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. All right.

• 40:17Speaker 05

  I would never.

• 40:18Speaker 04

  But he has your best interest at heart.

• 40:20Trevor Noah?

  I've got his, thank you Cara. I have his fully, full best interest.

• 40:23Speaker 05

  This is a guy who puts me through talking about the amp on the iPhone for hours and hours.

• 40:28Speaker 04

  But you know what? He's right about that. That's very upsetting.

• 40:30Trevor Noah?

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 40:31Speaker 04

  I was like, these people, it's the most, it's a multi-trillion dollar company. They didn't notice the, I said that to the executive.

• 40:38Trevor Noah?

  So you know what my theory is?

• 40:39Speaker 04

  There was a pretty big executive at this morning show premiere and he goes, what do you think? I'm like, what's with the bump? And he goes, fuck you.

• 40:48Speaker 04

  You didn't notice the bump? All your multi-billion dollars?

• 40:52Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you my theory?

• 40:53Speaker 04

  What?

• 40:53Trevor Noah?

  My genuine theory and I could be wrong on this. I feel like the technology that's being made today, not all of it, but a lot of it is being made by people who are not using it, using it. So they're sort of like making theoretically, but they're not using.

• 41:06Speaker 04

  No, no, I think they had Samsung envy, you know, because a lot, some of these.

• 41:09Trevor Noah?

  For the thin phone?

• 41:10Speaker 04

  The thin phone. I think they wanted a thin phone.

• 41:12Trevor Noah?

  Cara, there's no way someone was using that and was like, this is right.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Well, it was interesting because when I saw it, I thought Steve Jobs would vomit on this phone. Like he would not like it. He, he, he would not have let it go like that. No way. No way. One of the things that was really interesting, many years ago, when I, you know, I was partners with Walt Mossberg for years on our conference, our big code conference, where we had Steve Jobs and Bill Gates together and stuff like that. And we had Zuckerberg and Elon and everyone else. But Walt brought him the Zune. Remember the Zune from Microsoft?

• 41:40Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:41Speaker 04

  It was brown. It was like, who picked a brown poop color for?

• 41:43Trevor Noah?

  But it was, it was a pretty good device.

• 41:45Speaker 04

  It was a good device, but it looked.

• 41:46Trevor Noah?

  It didn't look good at all.

• 41:47Speaker 04

  It didn't look good. The color and it was shape wrong. It had a wrong, the iPod had the golden means measurements.

• 41:55Trevor Noah?

  The ratio, right?

• 41:56Speaker 04

  The ratio, which was why you found it attractive and you don't know why you did, but it was very nice to hold. And it's because Jobs used the golden means ratio, which is interesting. But the Zune was square. Remember it was, it was hard to hold.

• 42:12Trevor Noah?

  It was just an ugly device.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  It was an ugly device. So Walt handed Jobs the, he goes, let me see it. And he's like, I'm not supposed to show it to him. And Jobs is like, let me see the fucking thing. Cause he wasn't able to get it, right? And so he put it in Jobs' hands and Jobs went like this, like this. He was such a drama queen, but I think it actually repelled him. He was like, why do they make so many ugly things? Like, why can't they make, because a lot of them, including at, at, Apple's the only one that really did do things that were beautiful, were actually beautiful and beautiful to hold. And even Google, when they were trying to make, when they made their phone. And I, my, my ex-wife was a Google executive too, and they had, remember they had the stacks? You had to go.

• 42:55Trevor Noah?

  Yes, yeah.

• 42:56Speaker 04

  And I was on her, I was using my phone, but she had to use the Android. And I, I was looking for an address and I go, where is she goes, well, it's in the stacks. I'm like, what the fuck is the stacks? And she's like, the stacks, the stacks. And she's a tech person. She goes, obviously the stacks. I was like, nobody normal knows what a stack is. And with iPhone, you could pick, a child could pick it up and use it.

• 43:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's the most intuitive device ever created.

• 43:18Speaker 04

  It's intuitive because it's simple. And one thing Steve Jobs used to say, he said it to me at least, was it's really, it's very complex to make things simple, but it's very simple to make things complex. Like, and so a lot of people in Silicon Valley make things complex on purpose because it, it's easy for them, but not, they're not thinking like a consumer would use it.

• 43:39Speaker 05

  This conversation proves one thing to me. That I should never let him choose anything for me. Because me, because Cara was busy giving me advice about how option one became so great. And you lured her in with your stacks. And your ramen raisin press.

• 43:57Trevor Noah?

  But. Wait, you, you know what? Actually, no, I think.

• 43:59Speaker 04

  Well, just help him.

• 44:00Trevor Noah?

  No, but I, can I tell you something that, that actually we, we're getting to, which is, which is, which is important?

• 44:06Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 44:06Trevor Noah?

  That's, that's why I like this triumvirate that we've created here. I think Cara is giving us an insight into the tech industry.

• 44:12Speaker 05

  Right.

• 44:13Trevor Noah?

  That to me sounds like there are, there, there are too many like, let's just say cables that have, that have been disconnected from people.

• 44:21Speaker 05

  Right.

• 44:22Trevor Noah?

  Because what you just said is what I think is missing in dating apps and whatever. I think a lot of dating apps have a very simplistic idea of how dating and how relationships are formed. A person finds another person attractive, they link up, therefore.

• 44:37Speaker 04

  Fair enough.

• 44:37Trevor Noah?

  It works.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 44:39Trevor Noah?

  But it's like, no, no, no, no, no. If you think of what a working relationship is, everyone who's told me a story about being set up, I'm obviously, some people have bad stories. But when you even think of, um, matchmakers in India. A great matchmaker in India will tell you, my job is not to just set you up. My job is to understand you and then understand you and figure out why you would or wouldn't work beyond what you may know or not know about yourself. And whenever I hear people talk about someone setting them up, like a friend of theirs or somebody, they go, my, it's, you said the line and I, I promise you, everyone says it, they go, they were like a matchmaker type. There's a skill that they possess.

• 45:18Speaker 04

  Right, correct. Not everybody has it.

• 45:19Trevor Noah?

  Exactly. That enables them to see why you connect with you. But these apps don't necessarily do that.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  AI can do that eventually. Eventually, there will be.

• 45:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but now they don't.

• 45:28Speaker 04

  Some, some of the algorithms do have things that are helpful. I mean, it's, we're on our way to that. And I think

• 45:34Trevor Noah?

  Complete, on the way, yes.

• 45:35Speaker 04

  It will read your facial expressions. You know, they're doing job interviews like that. They can, they can watch the facial expressions.

• 45:41Trevor Noah?

  We don't know what they mean, mean yet.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  Well, actually, you know, interestingly, I just, I'm finishing up a documentary about future health, right? Right now, because it's my next book, talking about, there's amazing things happening around tech and health and figuring out things. And one of the ones is this company in Boston. And it's from Mass, Brigham Young, which is a big hospital there. It's doing testing there. And it's showing incredible promise. It's called Face Age. And you look at doctors, when there's a cancer patient, looks at, looks at a cancer patient and decides whether they need more aggressive or less aggressive treatment. And they actually, among the many things they look at is the face. They're like, do they look too much? And a lot of doctors are doing it without actual science. They're just like, I have a feeling this person can take it more. And they use age.

• 46:26Speaker 04

  It's, they don't even realize they're doing it. They're, they're, they're assessing people. They're, you know, they, they use the word assessment. But they just look, well, not at a glance, they're taking, they're, they're bringing lots of data in to figure it out. But there's this thing called Face Age, and the AI looks at a face and it will, you will have a chronological age and a biological age.

• 46:43Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  Your biological age could be a lot lower than your chronological age. And that means you should have more aggressive cancer treatment.

• 46:53Trevor Noah?

  Because you can take it.

• 46:54Speaker 04

  Because you can take it, but doctors don't always see it because they're looking at wrinkles. They're looking at all kinds of things, or maybe someone's a little creakier. But, but this AI has been accurate in telling doctors which patients can take.

• 47:09Speaker 04

  Treatment more aggressively. And this one woman I met, she's eighty two years old. She looked older. She was wearing a wig. She looked older. She she was eighty two. Her face age was seventy two. And they gave her more aggressive treatment. She's cancer free now. It's incredible. Like these data, this AI will be able to to have a lot of data that we don't quite understand. The decision making will be part of a tool that doctors use. It can't be the decision maker. But it'll be a tool that doctors use going forward. So someone will be AI will be able to fix you up eventually. Not today. No, I'm not kidding. Here's the thing. Let me ask you a question. What do you want? What are you looking for? Make a list. That's what I did.

• 47:45Speaker 05

  Kar, you know what I love about you? You you care.

• 47:49Speaker 04

  I care. I care.

• 47:50Speaker 05

  No one has ever asked me this. I mean, some people were cardigans and came to be my friend.

• 47:55Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  Oh, wow. Wow. This is I'm having a bad.

• 47:58Trevor Noah?

  This is insane.

• 47:59Speaker 04

  This is awkward. This is awkward.

• 48:01Trevor Noah?

  What was in your list, though?

• 48:02Speaker 04

  What's on your list?

• 48:03Trevor Noah?

  What was on your list?

• 48:04Speaker 04

  Likes children, because I had two kids.

• 48:06Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 48:06Speaker 04

  Um, and um.

• 48:08Speaker 05

  Woman?

• 48:10Speaker 04

  Well, yes, yes, that was.

• 48:11Speaker 05

  Me too.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay, good. Excellent. We have the same list now. Um, uh, flexible, like.

• 48:17Speaker 05

  As in dexterity?

• 48:20Speaker 04

  Physically is great, but no, no, um, no, more like flexible isn't like rigid as a person. Rigid as a person. Uh, sense of humor.

• 48:29Speaker 05

  Tick.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  Uh, okay with change. I'm a very change oriented person. Like, I just sat there and wrote it down.

• 48:37Speaker 05

  Change as in like you change the way you think.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  Not uncomfortable with change.

• 48:42Speaker 05

  Location.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Whatever, just things happen, right? Um, I had a whole list. I'd have to find it, but it was.

• 48:47Speaker 05

  Feel free.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  I will send it to you. But you have to make a list of what's most important to you.

• 48:52Speaker 05

  I like.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  Stack rank.

• 48:53Speaker 05

  I like your recommendations.

• 48:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, stack rank it. Stack rank it.

• 48:56Speaker 05

  We're going to stack now?

• 48:57Speaker 04

  And then, no, well, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

• 48:59Speaker 05

  Back to stacks.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  Okay, go ahead. What's the most important? Okay, good. Should that be at the top? And you can say looks, too. You can be like, I like a good looking lady.

• 49:08Speaker 05

  A good looking lady.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  Well, to you, a good looking lady to you. What's number one?

• 49:14Speaker 05

  Privacy.

• 49:15Speaker 04

  Oh, that's number one?

• 49:16Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 49:17Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 49:18Trevor Noah?

  Have you heard of the new iPhone?

• 49:22Speaker 05

  But more than anything, family oriented.

• 49:25Speaker 04

  Okay, there you go.

• 49:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 04

  So, look for that. And don't, and if they're not, they don't, if it's not on the list, you gotta cut it loose.

• 49:34Trevor Noah?

  We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break.

• 49:41Trevor Noah?

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• 50:25Trevor Noah?

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• 51:08Trevor Noah?

  With YouTube Premium, those deep dives feel even smoother. You get ad-free viewing, but you also get background play when you need your hands free. And you get offline downloads, so you can keep watching wherever you happen to be, even if you happen to be off the grid. It's everything you already love about YouTube just somehow even better. Yeah, one of my favorite YouTube Premium features is smart downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, "Ugh, I forgot to download anything!" And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, "Download, download, download, download." You're on the plane, "Download, download, download, download." There's no Wi-Fi. "I wish I downloaded." Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch... Or just on the internet. Smart downloads basically thinks ahead for you.

• 51:53Trevor Noah?

  It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch. So even when you forget to prepare, YouTube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remember the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime.

• 52:24Speaker 05

  Is it possible sometimes that you would not want to date someone because you wouldn't think they fit with your friendship circle?

• 52:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 52:31Speaker 05

  And if that happens, who goes? Do you dump the person?

• 52:34Speaker 04

  Oh, I think your friendship circle is more important. I think they have to be able to.

• 52:37Trevor Noah?

  Yes, I agree.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  I think they are.

• 52:38Trevor Noah?

  Your friends are way more important.

• 52:40Speaker 04

  Actually, study after study shows you live longer if you have a friendship circle.

• 52:43Trevor Noah?

  That is very true, Eugene. If you keep your friends close, you will live longer.

• 52:47Speaker 05

  Wait, wait, wait. So was it more helpful for you that she was recommended by a friend?

• 52:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:52Speaker 05

  And then you got to keep her and the friendships?

• 52:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, you don't want your friends at cross purposes. That sucks. Nobody likes it. Look, it was, I had the funny, bad boyfriends are always the worst thing for a group of friends. If a friend has a bad boyfriend.

• 53:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  You're like, oh, the bad boyfriend. And you know who that is, right?

• 53:10Speaker 05

  It is always funny when someone has a partner that everyone else is like, ah, are they coming with them?

• 53:16Speaker 04

  I had, I had a friend who has someone we don't like. And, and they, they, and it was very obvious and everyone pretend like doesn't say anything. And they're like, you, you don't like this person. I said, I don't, I really don't. And they were like, well, it's, you know, kind of, you have to. And I'm like, and I named another friend of mine. I'm like, I've never met her fucking husband. I never hoped to. Like, I don't have to be friends with your partner. I said, if her husband fell on me, I wouldn't know it was her husband. So why do I?

• 53:43Speaker 05

  I've met you for the first time today and we got on like a house of fuck.

• 53:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  But you are a likable person.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  I am a likable person.

• 53:49Speaker 05

  You are an interesting person.

• 53:50Speaker 04

  I am an interesting.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  Interested person.

• 53:52Speaker 04

  I am an interested person.

• 53:53Speaker 05

  What is it about that guy?

• 53:54Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't know. I just didn't, I, it was a, it was a woman. I didn't like her. I just, she was mean.

• 53:58Speaker 05

  You just didn't feel her vibe.

• 53:59Speaker 04

  No, I didn't like them. You cannot like people.

• 54:02Trevor Noah?

  I like this.

• 54:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. One day, the other, I said to someone, I, I, they're like, I said, I can't, they're not friends. It was a work thing. And they were like, uh, why, why are you leaving? And I said, I don't want to talk to you anymore. They were like, what? They said, honestly, why are you leaving? I'm like, honestly?

• 54:19Trevor Noah?

  I'm done talking to you.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  I said, I'm done talking to you. And they were like, what? And I go, I, I wish I could say it any nicer, but that's really the reason.

• 54:26Trevor Noah?

  Damn, Cara.

• 54:27Speaker 05

  And then what does the opposite of that look like? You're walking into this apartment in Brooklyn.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  I just want to talk to you. I like, I like hanging out with you, yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 05

  Did you know it was her?

• 54:34Speaker 04

  We met before because dating people are the TV for couples. Like, they're like, oh, let's see what happens here. You know what I mean? We're entertainment. And we did, so we met before at a bar. So I, we, we both understood we would be the entertainment for the evenings.

• 54:51Speaker 05

  And everyone was watching you.

• 54:52Speaker 04

  That's right. And so before, we met before, so we made sure that we got, we had an initial like for each other, yeah.

• 54:59Trevor Noah?

  Was she also in tech?

• 55:00Speaker 04

  No, not at all.

• 55:01Trevor Noah?

  Was that refreshing?

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Uh, she was in journalism, so that was okay.

• 55:05Speaker 05

  Was that him being tech again?

• 55:07Speaker 04

  No, it was fine.

• 55:07Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, I want to know, you know why? Because, oh, refreshing, nicely done.

• 55:11Speaker 04

  No, my ex, my ex-wife was, is a techie. She was the CTO of America, of, under Obama.

• 55:17Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 55:18Speaker 04

  I know, she worked at Google, she's CTO of America, yeah.

• 55:21Trevor Noah?

  No, but that, no, the reason I'm asking is because I was going like, is it more refreshing to be with somebody who's in your world? Or somebody, so like, I, I, I like hanging out with Eugene partly because he doesn't care about half of those things that I'm talking about.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 55:33Trevor Noah?

  And, but then I sometimes go like, it is fun to be with somebody where.

• 55:36Speaker 04

  I feel like you two should have a little relationship going on.

• 55:38Trevor Noah?

  I wish, I'm not his type. I'm not his type. All the things that he said.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:43Trevor Noah?

  All the things that he said, family oriented.

• 55:48Speaker 04

  What, you hang out with Bill Maher? Is that, you're a Bill Maher character?

• 55:51Trevor Noah?

  Friends first, that's me. No, but, but like, yeah, I, I just mean like, you know, the refreshing world. Cause you, how mu, how many years have you worked in tech?

• 56:02Speaker 04

  Twelve, twenty, thirty, thirty.

• 56:05Trevor Noah?

  Thirty years.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:06Trevor Noah?

  And I would, I would say, you know, everyone who has done anything in tech.

• 56:10Speaker 04

  I do.

• 56:10Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean?

• 56:11Speaker 04

  You know, I didn't know Edison, but.

• 56:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I mean, this is.

• 56:14Speaker 04

  But, um.

• 56:16Trevor Noah?

  I would assume you didn't know Edison.

• 56:18Speaker 04

  I didn't know the Hewlett Packard people. I met them later when they were older. But from Jobs and Gates on, yes.

• 56:23Trevor Noah?

  But that's what I mean. That's, that is the tech we know.

• 56:26Speaker 04

  Well, no, there were people before that. There were all these companies.

• 56:28Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but I'm, I'm not assuming you've lived forever. That's what I'm saying.

• 56:31Speaker 04

  Yes, that's right. Yes. Some from Gates and Jobs on.

• 56:33Trevor Noah?

  Cool. Yes. So, how much of this do you now see as your career and how much of it do you see as your passion? Because I, when I'm, when I listen to you speak.

• 56:41Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 56:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, okay, okay, cool. All right, cool.

• 56:42Speaker 04

  I love it. I, I wouldn't, you know, one of the, the reason my book was called Burn Book, A Love Story, A Tech, A Tech Love Story. I love tech. I'm just pissed at what they did to it. Like, pissed that they had to take all the juicy bits for themselves.

• 56:54Trevor Noah?

  What do you, what do you mean by that?

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Well, look, look, the internet was, was built by the US government. And it was paid for by the US taxpayer, but who made all the money? A small group of largely white men, right? That's what happened there, right? In fact, almost to a person. And I don't understand why everybody doesn't benefit from the fruits of this amazing technology, except for a small group of people. And I don't understand why a small group of people gets to decide everything for the rest of us. Why didn't they ever have any regulation? Why wasn't there any input by citizens on so much of this stuff around privacy? Why do they design things that are so damaging to people?

• 57:34Speaker 04

  Why can't they not do that? And also, and why don't they lean into the good parts and mitigate the bad parts? Why do they not care about the bad parts and don't feel it's their responsibility? So that's what, I, I love, the, the amazing things tech can do for people, bringing people. I have a vision of, the way I put it in the book was, I, I have a vision of Star Trek and we live in Star Wars. You know, and Star Trek is an amazing vision of the future about diversity in its best light, in people understanding each other, where villains are complex.

• 58:08Trevor Noah?

  Cooperation.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  Cooperation, problems too, and everything else.

• 58:12Trevor Noah?

  Common cause.

• 58:13Speaker 04

  Cool outfits. And Star Wars is a very dark and dystopian vision about power and evil ultimately succeeding. They never win.

• 58:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they never win.

• 58:22Speaker 04

  The good people never win, you know, at the end.

• 58:26Trevor Noah?

  It's just a constant slog.

• 58:27Speaker 04

  It's a constant slog against the abuse of technology by powerful people. And so I am furious at them for taking something that could bring people together and not caring enough to take out the parts that bring people apart, right? Like antisemitism or whatever, and then hiding behind one of the most astonishing amendments in history, the free speech, right? Pretending they're all about free speech when they're not interested. They're interested in their free speech and nobody else's, right? So.

• 59:01Trevor Noah?

  When you've seen them over the years, I wonder how much you've seen them change because I I remember having a conversation once with a politician and it was interesting to see how much they didn't recognize themselves in the person that they were. So I met a politician and then 10 years later I was in an interview with them and I asked them about something that they had said 10 years ago. But I didn't say it was them. I just said, this is an idea. What do you think? And they're like, I think that's unrealistic and you've got to understand that that's not how the real world works. And I was like, you said that. And they're like, I don't know if I said that. I was like, no, no, you said that.

• 59:33Speaker 04

  Sounds like Obama, but go ahead.

• 59:35Trevor Noah?

  But it's, but there's so many politicians.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  I had that conversation with Obama.

• 59:38Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 59:39Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, about encryption.

• 59:41Trevor Noah?

  And what was the conversation?

• 59:42Speaker 04

  He was like, we need to open up the, it was encryption. It was about, yeah, I think it was about something where he had said one thing and then he later said something else and he goes, well, if you knew what I knew now. And I was like, oh, stop.

• 59:54Trevor Noah?

  But that's, but that's what I wonder with like the tech guys as well is. Look, maybe I'm taking them at face value. When I see a lot of them launch an idea, maybe not today, because today the money is really in the forefront. Everything is like, can it scale?

• 1:00:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:09Trevor Noah?

  Will it be a unicorn?

• 1:00:10Speaker 04

  Why am I at this dinner with Trump? Why Tim Cook, am I giving Trump a golden statue?

• 1:00:15Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:00:15Speaker 04

  I know he is dying inside, I know it. I don't care, he can deny it all he wants, I know he is.

• 1:00:21Trevor Noah?

  But my question is, like, what have they lost that they had in the beginning? Because in the beginning, it starts as a...

• 1:00:26Speaker 04

  Hope.

• 1:00:27Trevor Noah?

  You think it's hope?

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  Well, it's interesting, because, you know, I've known someone like Sam Altman, I knew him when he was nineteen. He was really interesting as a nineteen-year-old, when he did Loop, which was Failure, his company. It was a location services, I don't even remember what it did, but it was a location pinger kind of thing. And, you know, parts of it remain. I think people are often the way they are when I met them early, or the way they are now, just with more money. And then money has its deleterious effects, or too much money, or too much... You know, they have a lot of people licking them up and down, and agreeing with them violently about every... Like, oh, right, good job. And I think what happens is they become... Do you remember in Succession, as you watched that show, which I think that was a fantastic show depicting wealth and power,

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  what happens and the deleterious effects of it? Their worlds kept getting smaller and smaller. In their homes, they went from their tight little cashmere homes, to their cars, to their planes, to their boats. And they never encountered people, right? They say less and less. The last scene of Succession, I thought, reminds me of tech people a lot. Think about that last scene, besides the guy who died, Logan Roy. Everybody, the oldest son, he was alone by himself, by the water, alone.

• 1:01:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  With the security guy. The couple was together, Tom and Shiv. They were in an insulated car, expensive car, by themselves, you know what I mean? They were insulated, they went from the hotel room, down through the kitchen, through the thing. There was only one person who was with people, real people, was the other son. He's in a bar. And he's ha- he's the only one that's happy in that. And I thought it said a lot. So these people, they go from their cars to their yachts, to their homes, to like Mark Zuckerberg has a compound in Palo Alto. That means nobody gets in, nobody gets out. And so if you're like that, and you're constantly being told you're smart and every idea is right,

• 1:02:27Speaker 04

  you never get a feedback of, you fucking asshole, what are you kidding? And you either bring it into your life, like Mark Cuban enjoys feedback. He will listen.

• 1:02:38Speaker 04

  He's doing great. He's a great guy. Because he will listen to people who disagree with him and he'll seek out people. He was just with Tucker Carlson. I wrote, I'm like, what the fuck? He goes, I gotta listen to him. Like, he's open to hearing from lots of different people. And then there's people like Zuckerberg, who has a compound, and then he bought half of Hawaii, and then he bought this. It's to insulate yourself from everyone else. And if you start off as kind of a bit of a broken person or a jerk, like Jeff Bezos was always a jerk, in my memory. Like, he was a jerk to start with, and he's a bigger jerk now.

• 1:03:10Speaker 04

  When you have money and the deleterious effects of wealth, they become worse. It emphasizes the way you were, the way you initially.

• 1:03:18Speaker 05

  Amplifies it.

• 1:03:19Speaker 04

  It amplifies it.

• 1:03:20Trevor Noah?

  Just makes you more of you.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  Look at Elon. Look at Elon. Like, he was so interesting, and he's not.

• 1:03:27Speaker 05

  What you've explained about people being insulated from the truth once they acquire a certain amount of power, it's like, are you a big fan of The Sopranos?

• 1:03:35Speaker 04

  I love The Sopranos, of course.

• 1:03:36Speaker 05

  Remember the episode where Tony Bandito came out of prison? And then he was hanging out with Tony and the rest of the goons? Then he made that joke about, boy, you're flat. And then Tony got offended, called him to the side and said, I know we joke around, but I'm the boss now.

• 1:03:50Speaker 04

  Oh, right. Because he's changed. You can't be told that. Yes, they're like that. And it depends on the person, like,

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  you know, when I run into some people, they, and I'll say, what are you talking about? And they're like, oh, my people agree with me. I'm like, oh, really? They work for you and they're dependent on you. They, you know, just, I mean, the board of Tesla is a really good example. They cannot have been running this thing correctly, given what's happened, and then want to give them a trillion dollar pay package. So far, the record in the recent years has been pretty problematic, right? Not just, not just the, the, the lack of sales, but everything, the drug use, the, you know, the crazy political posturing. Any other company, they would have been like, you need to move along in that job of yours. You need to like, we need to get someone else to figure out how to keep this company going.

• 1:04:40Trevor Noah?

  You know, I'm always torn with those types of stories because I go, I know this is, this is a crazy alt take in that, in that way.

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  Go ahead.

• 1:04:49Trevor Noah?

  But I sometimes wonder if some of these guys are screwed over by the fact that now they're in the public eye in a different way.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:55Trevor Noah?

  Cause we don't, we don't really know what many of the great inventors in life thought. They didn't have Twitter, they didn't have Facebook, they, like, maybe they're writing, but I'm saying it wasn't a front facing.

• 1:05:04Speaker 04

  Oh, no, Edison was quite a, quite a jerk and also was abusive of tabloids at the time.

• 1:05:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn.

• 1:05:11Speaker 04

  He would, he put, he put all kinds of nasty shit out about Tesla.

• 1:05:15Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, when they were having the beef.

• 1:05:16Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:05:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, he was trying to undermine his technology.

• 1:05:19Speaker 04

  He undermined, but he used tech, he used reporters of the day, they.

• 1:05:22Trevor Noah?

  So it's the same old, same old.

• 1:05:24Speaker 04

  Same old fuck. Yeah, he used to, he, he, Tesla's a very sad story. What an inventor, but he got, he got mowed under, he got turfed by Edison, because Edison knew how to use and manipulate the press.

• 1:05:36Trevor Noah?

  But what I'm saying is we didn't own the, we, we weren't there. But do you think it was as easy to know who Edison was, was for the people?

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, no, he was very famous.

• 1:05:44Trevor Noah?

  You think people like knew him as like the shitty guy?

• 1:05:46Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, very famous, very, he was a, he was, you know, look, someone else like Charles Lindbergh, very famous, most famous person of the day, turned out to be, you know, a virulent anti-Semi, you know, a lover of Hitler, but, um, yeah, no, some of the people had worldwide celebrity, like, some people had.

• 1:06:03Trevor Noah?

  For their, like, the bad side of their.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  They didn't know the bad side.

• 1:06:06Trevor Noah?

  No, that's what I mean.

• 1:06:07Speaker 04

  Right, yeah.

• 1:06:07Trevor Noah?

  Sorry, sorry, that's what I'm trying to say is I'm going. Back in the day, it was a lot easier to obscure who you were and put out who you want people to think you are. That, that, I think that's what I mean.

• 1:06:17Speaker 04

  Yes, no, it is. No.

• 1:06:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and I'm saying like now, someone like Elon gets exposed way more than he would if he was in like nineteen twenties.

• 1:06:23Speaker 04

  Well, that's because he doesn't shut the fuck up. At some point, you're like, stop, put, put down. Like, I, I used to, when, after we stopped getting along, I used to put stuff out because I knew he read my stuff at like two in the morning because I knew he was up.

• 1:06:37Trevor Noah?

  That is hilarious.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  And I would, I put up.

• 1:06:40Trevor Noah?

  You told him?

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  Kanye West put up the fat picture of him with Ari Emanuel, remember that one?

• 1:06:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:45Speaker 04

  And Kanye West is the one that did that. And it was like, oh, man, what happened? And I, I, I never, and I'm not on Twitter anymore, even though I have one point five million followers. And I, and he wrote something really awful, as always. And then I was like, oh, man, I just did that. I just said, oh, man. And five seconds later, Elon blocked me. It was so funny.

• 1:07:06Trevor Noah?

  So small.

• 1:07:08Speaker 04

  So easy. I was like, oh, my God, you're a billionaire. If I was a, let me, remember when he was at Mar-a-Lago?

• 1:07:13Trevor Noah?

  Which time?

• 1:07:14Speaker 04

  For New Year's Eve.

• 1:07:15Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 04

  All right.

• 1:07:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, for the big party.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  Here's what I thought to myself. I'm the richest man in the world and I'm fucking at Mar-a-Lago with all these stiffs. Like, and this guy dancing to YMCA, like, if I'm the richest person in the world, you know where I am? I just bought France and I've given everybody free wine. And we're all, you know what I mean? And Beyonce is there.

• 1:07:34Trevor Noah?

  We need to give Kanye West all the money in the world. This sounds like a fun world.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  Wouldn't you?

• 1:07:38Trevor Noah?

  Buy a country, give everybody the wine. Get France drunk. You know what's funny about that story is, do you remember, like, I don't know why, there's some moments that I see it into my brain. Do you remember when Trump was like basically saying Elon's annoying and he's sick of him being around?

• 1:07:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:51Trevor Noah?

  So there was, but this is like in public. This is not a secret thing. Not on the side? No, no, no, you can see this. They were talking to him about Elon and his work and whatever. And Trump was like, yeah, you know, Elon, very smart. He's doing big things, doing big, big things, very smart. He's, uh, he's been around, always here, always. Sometimes I wonder when he's gonna go, but he doesn't go. He's here every day.

• 1:08:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Trevor Noah?

  I go, don't you have to run a company or something? But he stays.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  That's nice. Well done.

• 1:08:16Trevor Noah?

  Good old Elon, good old Elon.

• 1:08:18Speaker 04

  Get the fuck out of here. You know, get the fuck out of here. He needed the money.

• 1:08:22Trevor Noah?

  He was like, yo, man, who the hell? I was like, for Trump to be like, who is this loser? Who I can't get rid of? He's like, you've done your job. You gave me the money.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  Now get the fuck out.

• 1:08:31Trevor Noah?

  Uh, move on now.

• 1:08:32Speaker 04

  You know, when, uh, when he first started showing up there, like, and he was, uh, cause after the election, they're like, oh, he'll go. I'm like, oh, he's not gonna go. He has nowhere to go.

• 1:08:40Trevor Noah?

  You called it?

• 1:08:42Speaker 04

  Oh, oh.

• 1:08:43Trevor Noah?

  The fact that he's gonna stay?

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  Oh, I thought he was gonna stay. And so I ran into a Trump person, pretty high up, and he goes, oh, you're so mean about Elon. I go, he's fucking nuts, you'll see. I said, he's, uh, has a drug problem, as, as been well reported by New York Times. He's got, well, he doesn't consider a problem, whatever. He likes the ketamine and stuff like that. He talks about, he likes the ketamine. And, um, I said, and he's really irritating, like, he really is, just so you know. And he's become more irritating now, and you can see it. And, and they're like, oh, you're just jealous. We have Musk. I'm like, okay, good luck. Four weeks later, this person I ran into, they're like, oh, my God. And I was like, I told you. And they're like, you were right, he won't leave. And I was like, he's not leaving.

• 1:09:27Speaker 04

  I said, he goes, when we move up to White House, who leave? I go, he won't leave. And he didn't, remember? He was always.

• 1:09:33Trevor Noah?

  He didn't go anywhere.

• 1:09:34Speaker 04

  He didn't go, uh, he's like, no, in the White House, we can keep him out. I'm like, you can't keep him out.

• 1:09:38Trevor Noah?

  He became the White House mascot, like, next to the desk.

• 1:09:40Speaker 04

  With that kid, that poor kid.

• 1:09:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:41Speaker 05

  Wait, so how could they not keep him out of the White House?

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  Cause Trump said it was okay.

• 1:09:45Speaker 05

  You could have easily just blocked someone.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  Trump is like Tony Spross, he likes people hanging around.

• 1:09:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And also remember, like, Trump, if you go back in his life, I think it was his dad who taught him a lesson. He said, always stay close to the richest, most powerful people that you can.

• 1:09:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:58Trevor Noah?

  So, uh, Trump faces that dichotomy.

• 1:10:00Speaker 04

  I also think he likes the crew, cause he's lonely.

• 1:10:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but he likes cool. And I think he has, he actually has an acute sense of what cool is.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Trevor Noah?

  But sometimes he's stuck with the uncool, but it's attached to the rich or the powerful. And he's like, ah, gotta hang out here.

• 1:10:12Speaker 04

  He just said it recently, he said, he's gotta come back.

• 1:10:15Trevor Noah?

  Who, Elon?

• 1:10:15Speaker 04

  Elon, yeah, Trump did. Now I thought he shouldn't have said that. He won't come back now.

• 1:10:20Trevor Noah?

  He won't come back.

• 1:10:21Speaker 04

  No, because, because also they were, when they were saying, you know, we got Elon and I go, oh, it's gonna break up bad. I said it publicly. I was like, this is gonna be, like, there can be only one. It's Highlander time here, everybody, and it's gonna be Trump, FYI.

• 1:10:33Trevor Noah?

  The Highlander.

• 1:10:34Speaker 04

  I love that. They're making it again.

• 1:10:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:37Speaker 04

  They're making it again.

• 1:10:47Trevor Noah?

  Oh, what a time.

• 1:10:48Speaker 04

  Who is that? Christopher Lambert?

• 1:10:50Trevor Noah?

  Lambert.

• 1:10:51Speaker 04

  Lambert.

• 1:10:51Trevor Noah?

  Lambert, I think, yes.

• 1:10:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, and of course Sean Connery was in it. No, they're making it again. I forget who the star is.

• 1:10:57Trevor Noah?

  You think it's gonna be any good?

• 1:10:58Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:59Trevor Noah?

  What, you think so?

• 1:11:00Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. It's a good cast.

• 1:11:02Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yeah, but the cast, for me, doesn't sell.

• 1:11:05Speaker 04

  Well, the first one's great. It's like Roadhouse, right? Like, Roadhouse.

• 1:11:08Trevor Noah?

  You just trust that it's...

• 1:11:08Speaker 04

  Roadhouse, the original Roadhouse is the finest movie in the land.

• 1:11:12Trevor Noah?

  I don't know, Cara, I feel like, I feel like, uh, movies, movies are in the same world that tech is right now.

• 1:11:16Speaker 04

  No, they're recopying themselves.

• 1:11:17Trevor Noah?

  And also, nothing feels, not nothing, nothing. There's a few things that pop out, don't get me wrong. But for the most part, if I look at the average...

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  Weapons or Sinners?

• 1:11:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, exactly. Weapons, Sinners. It's funny. Yesterday, we were talking about those exact same movies. Um, yeah, but I, I just feel like it's less adventurous, it's less edgy, it's less interesting, it's less, uh, imaginative, it's less, you know?

• 1:11:39Speaker 04

  Yes, it's limited. But I think there, there's always been sequels. There's always, I think we always say that, like, eh, this donut's not as delicious as it used to be. And it kind of is. It wasn't very good before. Like, we have memories that maybe, cause, you know, what did you, what was your formative movie?

• 1:11:54Trevor Noah?

  My formative movie?

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  I'm guessing Star Wars.

• 1:11:57Trevor Noah?

  No, uh, The Matrix.

• 1:11:58Speaker 04

  Matrix, okay.

• 1:11:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, noth- nothing has shaped how I perceive, and not like, is it real, is it not real? Not like that. Not like, oh, red, blue, no, actually, that stuff, I think, is dumb in the way people interpret it, to be honest with you.

• 1:12:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:12:11Trevor Noah?

  It it was, first of all, the computer world.

• 1:12:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, also amazing.

• 1:12:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, the way.

• 1:12:16Speaker 04

  Great story, that's why you liked it. It was not because it was the tech.

• 1:12:20Trevor Noah?

  No, but I but I did love the aspects of tech. And remember, for me, I was this little kid.

• 1:12:24Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:25Trevor Noah?

  Watching this guy who's like a loser in his world.

• 1:12:28Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:12:29Trevor Noah?

  And then you go.

• 1:12:30Speaker 05

  Why did you want this guy?

• 1:12:31Trevor Noah?

  No, no, I meant this person.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  You meant not you.

• 1:12:32Trevor Noah?

  Not you.

• 1:12:33Speaker 04

  Keanu Reeves.

• 1:12:33Trevor Noah?

  So I was watching Keanu Reeves.

• 1:12:34Speaker 05

  Okay, okay.

• 1:12:35Trevor Noah?

  This like sort of loser who's in his bedroom the whole time and he's doing. And I was like, man.

• 1:12:39Speaker 05

  His bedroom.

• 1:12:40Trevor Noah?

  There's a world where you could.

• 1:12:41Speaker 04

  PCI slot.

• 1:12:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you could you could become, because remember, he's like in there and they come and they come and buy the.

• 1:12:46Speaker 04

  And go back.

• 1:12:50Speaker 05

  Hyperlooped it.

• 1:12:51Speaker 04

  I could be a rapper.

• 1:12:53Speaker 04

  Except for being a.

• 1:12:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but it was, I don't know, for me, it was, there was that element of it.

• 1:12:59Speaker 04

  You can't sing.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  Do you know, my sons are really good, I'm gonna take it aside, my sons have really good musical taste. And I had, they were using my Spotify at one point, um, and just making playlists and stuff like that. And I think the guy who's had a Spotify, I was like, you have great musical taste. I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, and they said someone, and I was like, who's that? Like, because I didn't know my sons were making.

• 1:13:22Trevor Noah?

  They were like making your playlist.

• 1:13:24Speaker 05

  They were making your playlist?

• 1:13:25Speaker 04

  So I look cool.

• 1:13:25Trevor Noah?

  Nice.

• 1:13:26Speaker 05

  So you love The Matrix?

• 1:13:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because it was just, it was everything. It was like everything, everything, everything.

• 1:13:32Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:32Trevor Noah?

  But the most important thing, okay, this is why I think it's formative. And this is, I I have this theory, and you know, I I say this to you. I I apologize for saying it to you again, Eugene, I'll say it to you, I've never said it to you.

• 1:13:41Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:42Trevor Noah?

  I think we take for granted how powerful the stories we are told can be and what they can do to us. Because they shape how we then perceive the world and what we think is or isn't possible. Do you do you know what I'm saying?

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Trevor Noah?

  And so that's what like The Matrix forced me to think of the world differently.

• 1:14:01Speaker 04

  And what the world is really like.

• 1:14:02Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  And about the layers of it, right?

• 1:14:04Trevor Noah?

  Who's in, who's not in.

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:14:06Trevor Noah?

  Who are you?

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  What's real, what's not real.

• 1:14:07Trevor Noah?

  What's real, what's not real, what's, you know, and for me, one of the most powerful scenes in The Matrix, the one that like really, really got me. Was the scene of Agent Smith with Morpheus.

• 1:14:17Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:17Trevor Noah?

  Where Morpheus is sitting in the chair and he's restrained and Agent Smith comes up to him, you know, and he's like wiping.

• 1:14:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:23Trevor Noah?

  You know, he kicks the other agents out of the room.

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:25Trevor Noah?

  And then he's like, get out, get out. And then he talks to him and he goes and he says like, you want to know what it is about this place? It's the smell if there is, and he goes.

• 1:14:35Speaker 04

  They hated being there.

• 1:14:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but what I loved was how like, to what you said earlier, complicated villains.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  Yes, that's right. He was a complicated villain.

• 1:14:44Trevor Noah?

  Imagine this guy hates that he's there. He hates that he has to be there. He hates that he has to, and it was one of the first.

• 1:14:51Speaker 04

  Like the DC National Guard right now.

• 1:14:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, he was.

• 1:14:54Speaker 04

  No, they just released a report and they're like all.

• 1:14:56Trevor Noah?

  They were like, we hate being there.

• 1:14:57Speaker 04

  We hate, we're embarrassed.

• 1:14:58Trevor Noah?

  There you go.

• 1:14:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was an internal report that just got out.

• 1:15:01Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 1:15:01Speaker 04

  Guards themselves, I feel, I never mean to them.

• 1:15:03Trevor Noah?

  There you go.

• 1:15:04Speaker 04

  They don't want to be there.

• 1:15:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but there you go. And what it did for me was it opened my eyes to the possibility that the prison guard could also sometimes hate being in the prison.

• 1:15:17Speaker 04

  Right, right, yeah.

• 1:15:18Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:15:19Speaker 05

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 1:15:19Trevor Noah?

  And, and then it's like, the, the way I thought of all of it, he wanted to be free and it was, and that's why it shaped it like.

• 1:15:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:25Trevor Noah?

  What was your, what was your, what was your one?

• 1:15:26Speaker 04

  Terminator. I love the Terminator. The first one, all of them. I like.

• 1:15:30Trevor Noah?

  But was the first one the formative one?

• 1:15:32Speaker 04

  First one was the formative one.

• 1:15:33Trevor Noah?

  Okay. What was it about Terminator?

• 1:15:35Speaker 05

  Same maker, right?

• 1:15:35Speaker 04

  Same, uh, no, no, no.

• 1:15:37Speaker 05

  Matrix and Terminator.

• 1:15:38Trevor Noah?

  Cameron and Wachowski's.

• 1:15:39Speaker 05

  No, the writer. I'm saying the creator.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  No, no, no.

• 1:15:41Trevor Noah?

  No, no, Cameron and Wachowski's. I think.

• 1:15:43Speaker 05

  The person that wrote.

• 1:15:45Trevor Noah?

  Cameron wrote Terminator.

• 1:15:46Speaker 05

  Terminator.

• 1:15:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:47Speaker 04

  And then Wachowski's. Wachowski's, the Wachowski's.

• 1:15:49Trevor Noah?

  No, then the Wachowski's wrote the Matrix.

• 1:15:51Speaker 04

  Similar, probably influenced. I bet they were influenced by Terminator.

• 1:15:55Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:15:55Speaker 04

  Um, I just love that movie. It was so, I love time travel. I love time travel movies. I love time travel books. I think I would love to be able to time travel and and I always was attracted to Ray Bradbury's stories, you know, I even like Time Cop with Jean-Claude Van Damme. I like, I'll watch any time travel.

• 1:16:11Trevor Noah?

  Cop was, what a movie, what a deep cut.

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  Fucking fantastic movie. And so, um, so it was, uh, anyway, I loved it. And I just, the idea of can you change time was always. Always really interesting to me and just the Schwarzenegger was amazing. The visuals were amazing. The ideas, they were fucked up ideas. They're really fucked up ideas of what the future is. And what was really interesting was the idea that it wasn't the machines that are the problem. It was people, right? People not understanding the power of the machines. And so I just, it was always resonated. And of course Gladiator, who doesn't love Gladiator? But that's the finest movie in the land too. Well, Roadhouse, Roadhouse is my favorite movie.

• 1:16:53Trevor Noah?

  Formative movie?

• 1:16:54Speaker 04

  We just watched it again. I do the annual Roadhouse watching and not the Jake Gyllenhaal pathetic version.

• 1:16:59Trevor Noah?

  Damn. The original. Shots fired. The swazy. Original. Formative movie?

• 1:17:04Speaker 05

  It has to be Norton and Pitt Fight Club.

• 1:17:08Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:17:09Trevor Noah?

  I like that. That's a nice one.

• 1:17:11Speaker 05

  It almost feels like it made you see the world in a different way through the characters that played in that world.

• 1:17:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:18Speaker 05

  For example, Meatloaf.

• 1:17:19Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:17:19Speaker 05

  He wasn't a rock star there. He was just a guy with huge man boobs. And then for a long time in the movie, you're caught up thinking Tyler Durton and the other guy are the same, are two different people.

• 1:17:31Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:17:32Speaker 05

  And all along he was having a conversation with himself.

• 1:17:34Trevor Noah?

  Spoiler alert, you're supposed to say that.

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  You're supposed to say, that's all right, it's old, it's too late.

• 1:17:37Speaker 05

  You know what would happen to you if we're in Fight Club?

• 1:17:39Speaker 04

  It's their own damn problem.

• 1:17:40Speaker 05

  You know what would happen to him if we're in Fight Club? I'd go. Then blood would just seep through my teeth.

• 1:17:45Speaker 04

  Oh, wow, okay, wow, okay.

• 1:17:48Trevor Noah?

  So, okay, you know what, actually, this, so this is why I'm, you know, and, and, and some people think it's a stretch, but you did bring it up with Star Trek. People take for granted how much the technology that is made today or the technology that has been made over the past few years.

• 1:18:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Trevor Noah?

  Was made by people who were inspired to make it by the movies they were watching as kids.

• 1:18:10Speaker 04

  That's right, that's right.

• 1:18:10Trevor Noah?

  Like they watched something and they went, could we make?

• 1:18:13Speaker 04

  Elon is deeply impacted by sci fi.

• 1:18:15Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 1:18:16Speaker 04

  Deeply, like we've had so many discussions about sci fi and the stuff, the stuff he is interested in. It's crazy, like many of them are.

• 1:18:23Trevor Noah?

  And that's, that's what, so this is why I hop on about like art. Yes. Not in the highfalutin sense, I just go. You know, people be like, who cares if movies become terrible?

• 1:18:32Speaker 04

  Not just movies, stories too.

• 1:18:33Trevor Noah?

  Yes, stories, books, whatever it is, whatever, the stuff that's getting out there.

• 1:18:36Speaker 04

  Cartoons.

• 1:18:37Trevor Noah?

  All of it.

• 1:18:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Trevor Noah?

  That stuff tells a kid

• 1:18:40Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:40Trevor Noah?

  what to imagine and what to think about.

• 1:18:42Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:42Trevor Noah?

  That kid grows up into a man or a woman who is now going to try and create a certain type of future. Based on the imagination that they have inherited.

• 1:18:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:18:51Trevor Noah?

  And then if they don't have a good enough imagination, like I think of all the movies and TV shows now that make the best thing you can be a billionaire.

• 1:18:59Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:00Trevor Noah?

  Rich, rich money, money, rich, rich money, money. No, no creativity raised, just like money, money, rich, rich, power, power, rich, rich, money, money, money.

• 1:19:05Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:05Trevor Noah?

  And then I go, what does that mean for like the generation that grows up watching that? If they aspire to just be.

• 1:19:10Speaker 04

  Well, maybe they're not getting the art from there. There's a lot of television shows that are really powerful.

• 1:19:15Trevor Noah?

  Definitely. Look, I hope so, yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 04

  So now, I mean, like, listen, what I watched was like Gilligan's Island and, you know, Love American Style, Love Boat, so.

• 1:19:22Trevor Noah?

  I love.

• 1:19:22Speaker 04

  And somehow I made it through. Like, sometimes I think we overestimate the, the negative effects of some of this stuff.

• 1:19:28Trevor Noah?

  Oh, not the negative. I just, I don't, I don't underestimate the inspirational effects.

• 1:19:33Speaker 04

  Right, but look, go back and look at H.G. Wells, read that sometime. That guy clocked, Leonardo da Vinci clocked a lot of stuff, right? I mean, if you go look at his drawings, you're like, how did he know that?

• 1:19:45Trevor Noah?

  You do.

• 1:19:46Speaker 04

  Right? How did he get it?

• 1:19:47Trevor Noah?

  They might have been time travelers.

• 1:19:48Speaker 04

  Maybe so. Where would you go in time if you could travel?

• 1:19:51Trevor Noah?

  Definitely forwards.

• 1:19:52Speaker 04

  You can't go forwards.

• 1:19:53Trevor Noah?

  What, what do you mean?

• 1:19:54Speaker 04

  I'm just telling. I've made the rule. I'm now.

• 1:19:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, you can't. Uh, thank you.

• 1:19:57Speaker 04

  You can't go.

• 1:19:58Trevor Noah?

  All right, so I have to go backwards.

• 1:20:00Speaker 05

  Backwards.

• 1:20:01Trevor Noah?

  Boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo. Okay, let me think. This is a difficult, okay, well, let's establish a few, a few rules.

• 1:20:07Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:08Trevor Noah?

  If I'm going backwards in time, am I going, am I gonna meet me? How does your time travel work? Am I, do I exist in the back?

• 1:20:14Speaker 04

  If you see yourself, you blow up.

• 1:20:15Trevor Noah?

  Like, do I exist in the back?

• 1:20:17Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:20:17Speaker 04

  You do.

• 1:20:18Trevor Noah?

  I do, in your, okay. No, no, these are rules. It's fine.

• 1:20:21Speaker 04

  You have to.

• 1:20:22Speaker 05

  Wait, but I need to, but I'm gonna get involved soon, so I need to.

• 1:20:24Speaker 04

  Let's just go say you can't.

• 1:20:25Trevor Noah?

  No, that's why I'm trying to establish the rules. Okay, so in your rules, I do exist there. Okay. Then that changes quite a few things.

• 1:20:32Speaker 05

  You see, I knew this was gonna happen. He added that complication.

• 1:20:35Speaker 04

  You could mail yourself a letter and say, buy Apple. Go ahead.

• 1:20:38Trevor Noah?

  You see, I wouldn't, you see, I, honestly.

• 1:20:40Speaker 04

  I'm just saying, you could do that.

• 1:20:41Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you, I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking of time travel.

• 1:20:45Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:46Trevor Noah?

  And I worry about it because for me at least is I go. I don't know what the butterfly effect would be of changing any one aspect of my life. And I wor- so you you.

• 1:20:56Speaker 05

  But it wouldn't matter because you're not coming back.

• 1:20:58Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 1:20:59Speaker 05

  Into the present. So whatever change happens is what is.

• 1:21:02Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but my point is I don't know how that turns out. So to your point, let's say I tell myself at a young age, buy Apple stock. First of all, I'll go, what is Apple? What is stock? What is buying? What is money? Like.

• 1:21:13Speaker 05

  Don't go too far back.

• 1:21:14Trevor Noah?

  No, but no, no. But even at that age, I didn't. I remember, yo, let me tell you how crazy. I remember when Alibaba was listing. It was, it had its IPO. I was in South Africa. For some reason, I'd been deep in reading about Alibaba as a tech company. And then I went to like a bunch of people in banking and stuff and I was like, can I, can I get in on the IPO? And people were like, what are you talking about? I said, there's Alibaba IPO. And they're like, eh Baba, what are you talking about?

• 1:21:40Speaker 04

  So you didn't get in?

• 1:21:41Trevor Noah?

  No, and I, I didn't. And now we, we have like now you can buy, you know, derivative shares, stocks. You can do different things that you could back then you could back then. But what I mean is, I don't know, I go back and, and then what happened? You know what I might do? I might use my time travel powers to go back.

• 1:21:57Speaker 05

  Five minutes from now and fix this conversation?

• 1:21:59Speaker 04

  Oh, hours. Oh, nice.

• 1:22:00Speaker 05

  How about that? Maybe five minutes from now.

• 1:22:02Trevor Noah?

  Like you want me to go five minutes back?

• 1:22:03Speaker 05

  Yes, because you added the complication of, am I there? Am I not? What is money?

• 1:22:08Trevor Noah?

  You know what I would go back to? If I could time travel, I would go back to the moment when I met you.

• 1:22:12Speaker 05

  Oh, Trevor.

• 1:22:13Trevor Noah?

  That's the moment I would go back to. That's the moment I would go back to.

• 1:22:18Speaker 05

  Thank you so much.

• 1:22:18Trevor Noah?

  And then I would turn around and not walk into that building, Eugene. Because I'd be like, this person is gonna roast me for the rest of my life.

• 1:22:24Speaker 04

  Ah, that's good. No, you wouldn't. You'd be so sad.

• 1:22:27Trevor Noah?

  That's what I would go back to.

• 1:22:27Speaker 05

  You'd never.

• 1:22:28Trevor Noah?

  No, I would never. I would never erase this.

• 1:22:30Speaker 04

  I would literally go back and meet Jesus.

• 1:22:32Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 1:22:33Speaker 05

  Would he know he was Jesus at the time?

• 1:22:35Speaker 04

  I don't know. I'd need to find out.

• 1:22:37Trevor Noah?

  Jesus knew he was Jesus.

• 1:22:38Speaker 05

  No, but there was times where people have been saying he didn't know he was.

• 1:22:41Trevor Noah?

  No, but Jesus knew he was Jesus.

• 1:22:42Speaker 04

  We don't know.

• 1:22:42Speaker 05

  So he was rolling with his uncle, going to other places.

• 1:22:45Trevor Noah?

  So you would go, what age Jesus would you wanna go back to meet?

• 1:22:48Speaker 04

  Right as he started, right?

• 1:22:49Speaker 05

  Started being Jesus?

• 1:22:50Trevor Noah?

  You could have been then one of the wise men, because that's basically what they did.

• 1:22:53Speaker 04

  They didn't let men be that.

• 1:22:55Trevor Noah?

  We don't know that they let men or not.

• 1:22:56Speaker 04

  You're right, the Gnostic Gospels. I got it. Right, okay.

• 1:22:59Trevor Noah?

  Also, we don't even know what.

• 1:22:59Speaker 05

  Wait, wait, wait. They don't let who?

• 1:23:01Trevor Noah?

  Because here's the thing, there's two things.

• 1:23:02Speaker 05

  Was it Mary Magdalene?

• 1:23:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but no, no.

• 1:23:04Speaker 04

  No, she was not a whore. She was not. She was not. That was men writing the history.

• 1:23:08Trevor Noah?

  There's two things we also forget, though. And one of the big ones is. We forget how many times in the Bible it was possible to just like. Cover yourself in a certain way and people like, oh, you're a man or you're a woman.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:23:19Trevor Noah?

  So you could have, you could have snuck in.

• 1:23:20Speaker 04

  Gospels show that there were a lot of women involved. It's just the ones that survived are the ones who were using as a history, survived. So I would, I would wanna meet Jesus. Most, probably one of the more significant people.

• 1:23:31Speaker 05

  Formative years or when he's flipping tables at the temples?

• 1:23:33Speaker 04

  Right, when, the historical, I'm talking about the historical Jesus. The, like, who was this person? And to meet that person.

• 1:23:40Trevor Noah?

  Oh, you don't mean Bible Jesus?

• 1:23:41Speaker 04

  Well, is Bible Jesus histor- I wanna see, like, what happened? I'd like to see it. I'd like to see what happened.

• 1:23:48Trevor Noah?

  And what age are you thinking?

• 1:23:49Speaker 04

  Whatever, twenty, what, was he twenty?

• 1:23:51Trevor Noah?

  Twenty.

• 1:23:51Speaker 04

  Twenty, right? Twenty-five, twenty-four, twenty-three.

• 1:23:54Speaker 05

  Yes, cuz.

• 1:23:54Trevor Noah?

  Would you tell Jesus that he's gonna get crucified?

• 1:23:57Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:23:58Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 1:23:59Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:24:00Speaker 05

  Would you like to meet confident Jesus or?

• 1:24:02Speaker 04

  Confident Jesus, there was always.

• 1:24:04Speaker 05

  Or insecure Jesus, cuz it was Jesus where he was like, no.

• 1:24:06Trevor Noah?

  No, there was Jesus where he was doubting.

• 1:24:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:08Speaker 04

  Oh, in the thing?

• 1:24:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Speaker 04

  Oh, like you couldn't go to the garden and go, run, run. Like, get out, get out.

• 1:24:17Speaker 05

  Then he turns to Joseph and goes, you're not my dad.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  That guy's not your friend. I would actually, like, go to history in lots of places, like Caesar. Don't go to work today.

• 1:24:28Speaker 04

  Just let me.

• 1:24:28Speaker 05

  Go to Cleopatra, go and get in the carpet.

• 1:24:30Speaker 04

  Get, get on that chariot and head out of Rome.

• 1:24:33Trevor Noah?

  Just going back and, like, spoiling every moment from history.

• 1:24:36Speaker 04

  I know, like, Lincoln. Don't go to the theater. Don't go to the theater tonight.

• 1:24:42Speaker 05

  You just go, go to Abraham Lincoln.

• 1:24:43Speaker 04

  Crazy wife.

• 1:24:45Trevor Noah?

  Spoil the end of the, of the play. Just be like, oh, in the end of the play, they find out that the woman had another family. Oh, why did you do that? I don't wanna watch it anymore. Yes.

• 1:24:53Speaker 04

  But then nobody could do the other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? You know, they couldn't do that joke.

• 1:24:59Trevor Noah?

  We lose a great joke.

• 1:25:00Speaker 04

  We lose a great joke. Wouldn't that be funny to wander through history and be like, leave, don't go to the theater.

• 1:25:06Trevor Noah?

  It would be so cool to do, I mean, if we don't think about what it would cause, it would be really fun to just go and do that.

• 1:25:12Speaker 04

  Don't get on that plane.

• 1:25:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:14Speaker 04

  Don't get on.

• 1:25:14Trevor Noah?

  Just go like.

• 1:25:15Speaker 04

  Just don't.

• 1:25:15Speaker 05

  What do women think about Amelia Earhart? Do they think?

• 1:25:18Speaker 04

  What women think? We got together last week. We like her.

• 1:25:22Speaker 05

  You know more women than me.

• 1:25:24Speaker 04

  I don't know. I don't think people think of her that much.

• 1:25:27Trevor Noah?

  We think about her a lot.

• 1:25:27Speaker 04

  I think they probably think she's really interesting.

• 1:25:29Trevor Noah?

  Eugene thinks about her all the time.

• 1:25:30Speaker 04

  Do you? It's amazing.

• 1:25:32Trevor Noah?

  Amelia Earhart is Eugene's Roman Empire.

• 1:25:33Speaker 04

  I think she's a little more complex than people. You know, they have this vision of her, but actually she had a lot of some not so great things about her. I mean, she was complex. She was very complex.

• 1:25:43Trevor Noah?

  She was a human being.

• 1:25:44Speaker 04

  She was a human being.

• 1:25:45Trevor Noah?

  Where would you go in time?

• 1:25:47Speaker 05

  Phew, I would

• 1:25:51Speaker 05

  I would go hang out with David Chase when he was still thinking about making

• 1:25:56Speaker 04

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 1:25:57Speaker 05

  The Sopranos. I would just be his friend. I would just contribute because I love because I love The Sopranos so much, I even watched how they were doing the casting and who would have gotten which role before which role. And he was at the precipice of making some of the best television.

• 1:26:14Speaker 04

  My son loves The Sopranos.

• 1:26:15Speaker 05

  I love The Sopranos.

• 1:26:16Trevor Noah?

  You don't worry that you would throw it off by being there knowing what it's going to be?

• 1:26:20Speaker 05

  What do I care? It's me time traveling here. Now I must care about everyone's feelings here.

• 1:26:24Trevor Noah?

  But then there's no Sopranos, is what I'm saying. So you don't care about

• 1:26:26Speaker 05

  There will be The Sopranos.

• 1:26:27Speaker 04

  It's like Back to the Future.

• 1:26:28Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:26:29Speaker 04

  Here you go, Biff. Or no, or whatever.

• 1:26:31Speaker 05

  Because every time after I landed in LaGuardia, I go

• 1:26:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you do. And then that's why immigration always pulls him aside.

• 1:26:38Speaker 04

  Some, every now and then I go, I go back in time and I'd say yes to those job offers at tech companies.

• 1:26:43Trevor Noah?

  Why? Yeah, why did you never get into tech?

• 1:26:45Speaker 04

  There were so many of them, so it must have been.

• 1:26:47Trevor Noah?

  You'd go back and say yes?

• 1:26:48Speaker 04

  I might be, because then I would have billions, billions of dollars right now. And then I would be able to be like, really?

• 1:26:54Speaker 05

  You were getting to France drunk?

• 1:26:55Speaker 04

  Like, you know.

• 1:26:56Trevor Noah?

  No, but actually, let's talk a little bit about that. It's like you were in tech

• 1:27:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:00Trevor Noah?

  when tech was still like, it was really

• 1:27:03Speaker 04

  Small.

• 1:27:04Trevor Noah?

  the wild, wild west.

• 1:27:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I was offered a job at AOL in the early days. I was offered a job at Facebook in the very early days, at Google in the very early days, and Amazon in the very early days.

• 1:27:14Trevor Noah?

  Do you know how many billions you've just told us?

• 1:27:16Speaker 04

  That's correct. And I kind of would be like, interesting. Like, it would be a really, it would be a, it would be a different world. Like, I would have used it politically, for sure.

• 1:27:24Speaker 05

  But let's pretend we're ten years from now, and we're going back in time. Which decisions would you make now to get us wealthy?

• 1:27:31Speaker 04

  To get us wealthy?

• 1:27:32Speaker 05

  Yeah. What would we buy now?

• 1:27:34Speaker 04

  See, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna fuck up again. But I'd probably do some, something in AI in an area I knew about, like, what, it's gonna, it'll be hard, it'll be hard to know which one's gonna win, though, right? You never know which one's gonna win.

• 1:27:46Trevor Noah?

  Yes, we don't know until it happens.

• 1:27:47Speaker 04

  There were seven or eight Googles before there was Google, right? There was Excite, there was, there was, um, there's a bunch of them that were all search engines. They just didn't work. I'm blanking on all the names. I covered them all. But there were a lot like Google before there was Google.

• 1:28:02Trevor Noah?

  I, I'm still trying to understand, though.

• 1:28:06Speaker 04

  Before there was Facebook, there was MySpace. And for that, there was another one, and I'm blanking on that name. But there was, there was a bunch of them.

• 1:28:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I wanna know why, like, you love tech.

• 1:28:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:28:16Trevor Noah?

  You still love tech.

• 1:28:19Trevor Noah?

  And you kept saying, do you know why you said no?

• 1:28:21Speaker 04

  Well, you know, at one point, I think it was Ted Leonsis, who was, he's now a billionaire, and he owns a bunch of teams and stuff. And he sent, used to send me the amount of money I would have had had I taken his job.

• 1:28:32Speaker 05

  Damn.

• 1:28:33Speaker 04

  His favorite trolling. But he doesn't do that so much anymore. But I think, at one point, I said to one of them, I think it might have been at Amazon. They wanted an editor job. They had an editor job free. And I said, why would I wanna do that? I work for the Washington Post. Something like that. I think I, I liked what I did. And I, you know, at some point-

• 1:28:53Trevor Noah?

  Where was this job?

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  That was an Amazon job, I think.

• 1:28:56Trevor Noah?

  That is crazy irony. What a loop.

• 1:28:58Speaker 04

  What a-

• 1:28:58Trevor Noah?

  Why would I want this job at Amazon? I work at the Washington Post. And then Amazon goes and buys the Washington Post. It's almost like Jeff Bezos heard that.

• 1:29:06Speaker 04

  I could have bought the, I still could buy the Washington Post.

• 1:29:08Speaker 05

  And then all you hear is, "Doom, doom, doom."

• 1:29:10Speaker 04

  I think I was just, I, I think there is a point where, there is a number where more money doesn't matter. It really does. It doesn't make you any happier, right? Unless you wanna buy France and buy everybody, oh, got, bought us a wine, and you do need that money. But there is actually, and there's study after study about this, there's a number where people aren't-

• 1:29:28Trevor Noah?

  You've also seen it, though.

• 1:29:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:29:31Trevor Noah?

  Like, you've been on the inside, seeing these people become some of the richest men in the world and still be very unhappy.

• 1:29:36Speaker 04

  I would have to say, on my hand, I can count the people who are happy, who I consider.

• 1:29:40Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 1:29:40Speaker 04

  Mark Cuban would be one of them. Um, that are really truly happy.

• 1:29:45Trevor Noah?

  What do you find the other people show you that you you you you deem unhappy? What what is it?

• 1:29:51Speaker 04

  They're deeply insecure. They are constantly aggrieved. There's a lot of aggrievement among the wealthy people. Have you noticed that?

• 1:29:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:58Speaker 04

  Zuckerberg, to me, is the most the worst like, you know, everyone's always attacking me. I'm like, oh, Trump is the same way. He's always being under he's out of under siege. How live like that? That's like a terrible way to live. Uh, very few are, I would say, really happy people in a lot of ways. And the people that stop sort of being so ultra competitive and demented are happier people. Right? Um, I suspect Bill Gates is a happier person now after he did all the philanthropy than before.

• 1:30:27Speaker 05

  I like this. You you when I met you there, you looked like the kind of person who always chooses passion and happiness.

• 1:30:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:33Speaker 05

  So when you were young, who?

• 1:30:34Speaker 04

  I like making money.

• 1:30:35Speaker 05

  Who did you look at and go? Hmm, I love being happy.

• 1:30:39Speaker 04

  I don't have any heroes. No, no, my dad died when I was young and my mom's kind of complex. But um, I would say I just like doing what I like to do. I know it sounds dumb, but when when I think about every time I have been successful, I do things that please me. Right? I think I like doing this. And I was very formed by a Steve Jobs speech that he gave at Stanford, which I recommend to everybody. Um, he was sick and then he was well for a little bit and then for quite a few years. And then um, then he got sick again. And one of the things I think about was he invent or he was critical to inventing the most important things when he was sick. He really was.

• 1:31:23Speaker 04

  If you think, you know, the iPhone, the i air i i iPod, everything like that. And one of the things he gave this speech at Stanford that I read and I listen to all the time. And it basically says, you know, remembering you're going to die someday is the single greatest motivator for me. When I'm doing things day after day that I don't like, I know I have to stop. Right? And I think I I really, it really resonated with me. When my dad died, I was like, you know what? He was thirty four years old. He just got out of the Navy, just started to make. Money and he died just like that. Now, he didn't know. He didn't, obviously, he had three kids. He was beginning his life, really begin, you know, his life, it's fine. And he came from a not a rich family. He worked his way up by going in the Navy and everything else.

• 1:32:06Speaker 04

  And I do, I think about that. I'm like, do I, is this the way I want to, and Jobs talked about this. Is this the way I want to spend my day like with that? And so when I remember when I was like offered, I think it was a fate, one of the Facebook people. It was Owen Vanata who said, come to Facebook. And I was like, and I happen to like him, but I was like, I don't want to be with you people all day. Like, I just don't, I just don't want to, I don't want to be here. And I think that was what it is. And so everything I do now, I stopped doing things when I don't want to be there anymore. And I'm, it's very easy. Same thing with having kids when I was older, I was much older. I was like, I said, I would like some kids. I'm going to do that. And so I think that's, and I have the choice, I have the luxury of choice that other people don't.

• 1:32:50Speaker 04

  And that's the other thing, other people don't have a choice. And I, and to be whiny and bitchy about things when you have all these choices seems.

• 1:32:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I, I often think the great responsibility that everybody has is knowing when they have the choice. Cause I think, I think a lot of people in life don't have the choice. And you'll be surprised at how many people do have the choice, but then still live like they don't have the choice.

• 1:33:14Speaker 04

  They don't, they don't.

• 1:33:15Trevor Noah?

  And if you don't know that you have the choice and you're living like you don't have it, I almost go, you've, you've, you know, you've sort of done yourself a disservice because you have the thing that most people don't have and you're not using it.

• 1:33:26Speaker 04

  And I think that's, I think that's sort of where you're in a society. I, it's with women and it's interesting because a lot of women come to you, now a lot of media people come to me for advice. So like, how did you do it? I want to do it. And I like that they want to do it. And sometimes I'm like, maybe not you. But sometimes, well, you can tell who's entrepreneurial and who's not, right? And, and often this, I'll never forget, this one woman came to me and she said, she was an executive, always number two. There often women are number two, a lot of these companies are three or something, but never one, right? Men are very easy to step up to one, very easy. And you notice that it's very clear. And she's like, She goes, I want your advice. What should I do? And I said, what do you, what do you want to do? That's what I said. What do you want to do?

• 1:34:10Speaker 04

  And she said, well, I've been offered this, this, and this. And I said, uh huh. And she goes, and I'm thinking this, I go, I didn't ask you what you were offered. I asked you what you want to do. You didn't hear me, what I said to you. She goes, what's the difference? I go, oh, it's a huge difference. Offered is like, this man wants to marry me, this man wants to marry this. That's what you got offered. That's not who you want to marry. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. And I said, I said, the metaphor to me is a restaurant. You go in and they have chicken, pork, and lamb. And you want duck. Ask for the fucking duck. And she was like, well, what if they don't have duck? I said, they have duck. It's back there. And she goes, what if they don't have duck? I said, they have fucking duck.

• 1:34:54Speaker 04

  And she goes, what if they don't have duck? I said, then leave the restaurant and go find the duck restaurant. Like, I don't know what to tell you. If you want duck, have fucking duck. And she's like, what are you talking about? I was like, I am a genius. I said, I am giving you this pearl of fucking wisdom. I was like, order the duck. Just do it. Like, don't have the chicken if you don't want the chicken. Like, you have the ability to choose. And most people in this world, I have to say, are stuck in places they don't like. Whether you're in Syria, whether you're a woman in, you know, Sudan. Like, you don't have a choice. Or you're poor, or you're, you're in, you're in deep poverty, without education. Even in this country, like, people don't have choices that other people have. And to, to be, that's why it drives me crazy with the Democrats. Like, what do we do? I'm like, what are you fucking talking about?

• 1:35:39Speaker 04

  Lots of things. Let's start with the thing, instead of just wallowing in, you know, oh no. Autocracy, really? Does it have, that has to be the choice? No, it doesn't.

• 1:35:49Trevor Noah?

  Don't press anything. We've got more. What now, after this?

• 1:35:55Trevor Noah?

  I think one of the things you realize when you start caring about clothes is that simple doesn't have to mean basic. Because a T-shirt is a T-shirt until you find the right T-shirt. Ooh, then suddenly you're talking about the cut, the fit, the weight, the way it falls on your body. Then you're like, no, no, no, you don't understand. Look at the sleeve. And that's what I've really enjoyed about Quince. One of my favorite things is their Pima Cotton Lux Touch T-shirts. And it's become one of those pieces I keep reaching for. The cotton has this really smooth, premium feel to it. The fit is great and it just lays really nicely. And I think that's what you sometimes take for granted with simple clothes. When they're done really well, they become the foundation of an entire outfit.

• 1:36:40Trevor Noah?

  You can throw on a jacket, a sweater, whatever you want. But everything works because you started with the right thing. That's what I like about Quince. It feels premium without feeling like you're trying too hard. It's effortless. So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. Hello over there. Oh, and if Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was What Now with Trevor Noah. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

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• 1:37:56Speaker 05

  You know what you're saying reminds me of a conversation we had with one of our friends in an episode here. Who said, when you asked him, why are you always so happy, Joe? Then he says, I'm hashtag winning because do you know where I come from? He says, in Uganda, all of this is not here. So I get to enjoy all of this. And I have no time to bitch and moan and complain when other people are feeling a little bit inconvenienced. And I think of you and how you speak of your father.

• 1:38:22Speaker 04

  Eating fucking a mean, like come on.

• 1:38:23Speaker 05

  Right? And how you speak of your father and I'm like, you.

• 1:38:27Trevor Noah?

  He's long gone now, yeah.

• 1:38:28Speaker 04

  He's dead?

• 1:38:29Speaker 05

  Gone, gone, gone, long, long, long.

• 1:38:31Speaker 04

  You never know with these dictators.

• 1:38:33Speaker 05

  I think either the gout got him.

• 1:38:34Trevor Noah?

  They do lost forever.

• 1:38:36Speaker 05

  I think the story that you mentioned about your dad, I stopped myself from being choked up a little bit because I lost my dad two years ago.

• 1:38:46Speaker 04

  You're gonna weep.

• 1:38:47Speaker 05

  Is it?

• 1:38:48Speaker 04

  This documentary, come in March, yeah.

• 1:38:49Speaker 05

  I lost my dad two years ago and there were so many occasions that I could have gone and spent time with him. Because I've told Trevor the story before, he was an alcoholic, so he was really struggling.

• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  It was hard for you too.

• 1:38:58Speaker 05

  So I never knew which guy I'm gonna get when I go meet him. But when he passed away, I felt a certain loss and I thought, maybe if I don't go to the funeral, I will never feel like he's really, really gone. And as time went on, I really, really feel like he's gone and it influenced how I, what I think of alcohol. I'm not really a big fan of alcohol and I try to be as.

• 1:39:19Speaker 04

  Time waster.

• 1:39:20Speaker 05

  And I try to be as present as possible. And I looked at your family pictures today and it spurred on that thing that I told you, that I think this is one thing that I would like to try because I'd never seen a working version of it. I've attempted it, didn't work, but I think with hindsight, you get to have a bit of, you know, experience in it without actually living it. So I understand completely when you say you don't have time to, you know, do something that you don't like.

• 1:39:47Speaker 04

  Nobody has time. And I think that's a really, by the way, this thing I'm working on is about longevity and the health span versus lifespan and how to have a better, longer, healthier life. Because we spent 90% of. Our medical money in the last 10 years, and it's all horrible. Even in the best of circumstances, it's horrible. And so why are we spending 90% here and not over here? Like, why are we, why are we living in a six, six? I'm not a Maha person, trust me, I think they're crazy. But why are we spending all this time in a, in the sick place and spending all our money and resources? When we, there's all these incredible breakthroughs that we could end obesity and like cancer and this stuff.

• 1:40:29Speaker 04

  And we spend all our time in the worst possible situation at the end of our lives, which I think is terrible. Like barring accidents, barring things that you can't avoid, right? Air earthquakes, whatever it happens to be. And so it's really, I think about that all the time. And whenever I saw, I was at this event this morning and these young people came, because I was, I thought I was pretty good on stage. And all these young people came up to me and said, that was so incredible. And I, they said, can you give us a piece of advice? I go, you'll be dead in 100 years. Goodbye. They were like, uh, and I'm like, think about it. And then make, make your choice, make your choice. You'll be actually dead in 100 years.

• 1:41:07Trevor Noah?

  What is the film gonna be? I'm now I'm interested.

• 1:41:09Speaker 04

  Oh, you'll have to wait and see. I'm not supposed to talk about it. It's embargoed. I hate embargo. It's for CNN. Fine, whatever. But it's actually gonna be a podcast and an event and a book. So I, I really think people have to think about our time here. I don't know, I do, I think about it all the time. It's not an obsession. There's a great app called We Croak. It's such a good app.

• 1:41:31Trevor Noah?

  We Croak?

• 1:41:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:41:31Trevor Noah?

  We Croak eventually.

• 1:41:32Speaker 04

  We Croak, it's called We Croak. And it's a little frog too, which is a little thing. And let me read this to you, it's really interesting. So it's my favorite app that I have, it's right on the front. And it's about, We Croak, five quotes a day. In Bhutan, they say contemplating death five times a day brings happiness. Right? And then they have a quoted, the five quotes. And this one is from Jimi Hendrix. I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to. Jimi Hendrix. I just read that, I'm like, hmm, good, good point, Jimi Hendrix. And so I read them and then I'm like, okay. And then it makes you do things.

• 1:42:06Trevor Noah?

  When I was in Bhutan and we were doing that.

• 1:42:08Speaker 04

  Oh, you're in Bhutan.

• 1:42:09Trevor Noah?

  I didn't, at the time, first I was just like, this is a, like, really not a vibe. And then you get into it and you're like, oh yeah, it's, it's, it's the, it's the embracing of the impermanence.

• 1:42:18Speaker 04

  That's right, right.

• 1:42:19Trevor Noah?

  You know? And, and what it does, funny enough, is I remember going on a, um, A guided tour in Paris. With a fantastic tour guide, always shout him out, Jean Manuel, if you're ever in Paris, look him up.

• 1:42:33Trevor Noah?

  And he gave this tour, and one of the main things that I learned from that tour was there are two different kinds of people who get to shape the future. There are people who shape the future knowing that they will not be a part of it. But they know what they wish they would have gotten to be a part of. And then there are people who shape the future as if they will always be there.

• 1:42:54Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:42:54Trevor Noah?

  And the latter is oftentimes the worst person to shape the future.

• 1:42:58Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:42:59Trevor Noah?

  Because they don't know that they'll have to let it go. And when I think about some of these tech guys that you're talking about.

• 1:43:04Speaker 04

  For this series, because I had, I was at endless dinner parties where they talked about living forever.

• 1:43:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they love it.

• 1:43:09Speaker 04

  Putting their brain.

• 1:43:09Trevor Noah?

  No, they love it.

• 1:43:10Speaker 04

  In another thing, and I was like, for what?

• 1:43:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they love it. But I, but I honestly, I honestly believe.

• 1:43:15Speaker 04

  There's more stuff going on, but that was the original. Cryogenics was, of course, the idea that you can preserve your brain. And by the way, we're moving into areas that some of this, you stop Xi and Putin talking about doing organ transplant.

• 1:43:27Trevor Noah?

  Living forever.

• 1:43:27Speaker 04

  So their impetus is so narcissistic, and it's not about making better lives for people on this planet and extending life. One guy I interviewed for this thing was, he wrote a fictional book called Elixir, and I'm blanking on his name, but he was terrific. So what if you were, the premise of this book is pretty simple. There's a pill you can take that for every year of your life, every five years of your life, it only ages you one year. So you can be a hundred and look twenty, right? Would you take it? One. And once then, and then he starts to contemplate the impact on society. Well, young people would be up in arms because all the old people would stay young longer and never get out of the fucking way, right?

• 1:44:09Speaker 04

  That's one, which they don't do now, as aged as they are in Congress. And then two, what if the person who made it would become the first, the real first trillionaire of the thing? Who would control that? Would it, should it be an individual who's selling it to you? And what if it was expensive enough that only wealthy people could take it? It was such a great, it's a great idea, this elixir. And the idea of elixir has been with us forever. There's a magic, a fountain of youth, elixir. There's always been that theme. And so would you take it? What if you took it and your kids didn't want to? They get older than you. I mean, it's so mind fucking, right? It's so interesting to think about. And a lot of these tech people who want, whether it's Larry Ellison,

• 1:44:53Speaker 04

  who's now become the world's richest man today. He's just surpassed Elon.

• 1:44:57Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 1:44:57Speaker 04

  Also Elon, Sam Altman. They're all investing in longevity stuff. Because, and in some cases, it's an interesting thing. Sam Altman's stuff is about health span extension. So you don't waste your time. I kind of, I'm down with that.

• 1:45:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:12Speaker 04

  Others are like, how can I live longer than other? What can I do to live, to stop telomeres and sentient cells and all this stuff? Other people like Jennifer, are funding people like Jennifer Doudna with CRISPR, which will remove, for example, sickle cell anemia. They may be able, they are able to solve it now. It's just expensive to do so. Because it's a single gene that you remove via CRISPR.

• 1:45:35Trevor Noah?

  You just edit that gene out?

• 1:45:36Speaker 04

  Most, most diseases are multi-gene, and so it's much harder. But it costs $2 million every time they do this.

• 1:45:41Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 1:45:42Speaker 04

  Too much, too expensive. But they can eradicate it now, which is largely eradicated for the most part. And so the question is, who gets to have it? And when? And is there a way to do it that's democratic and not as usual for the world's richest people? They are all approaching it as if I want, I should not die because I am this unique individual.

• 1:46:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:03Speaker 04

  What if you approached it like you are going to make the world better for all these people? Like everybody, that people don't have to die of obesity. They don't have to die of heart disease. They don't have to, of many, many, many cancers. It just goes away. It's a really interesting idea. And so I want to get rid of all the charlatans, of which there are so many, and narcissistic charlatans. And then let's look at what really is working, which is, it's an amazing field, you know, and remove it. And so, again, the same thing. It's a love story in the benefits of technology. And it's also a nightmare if it goes another direction. Would you take that pill?

• 1:46:42Trevor Noah?

  No, I wouldn't.

• 1:46:43Speaker 04

  You wouldn't?

• 1:46:44Trevor Noah?

  No. I've thought about this a lot, and I wouldn't.

• 1:46:46Speaker 04

  No, you wouldn't.

• 1:46:46Trevor Noah?

  So the reason I wouldn't take it is because I think...

• 1:46:52Trevor Noah?

  One of the greatest lessons I've learned in life is that the value of things is often most appreciated in their scarcity.

• 1:46:58Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:59Trevor Noah?

  So I've seen this through my friends who have children.

• 1:47:01Speaker 04

  Startups too.

• 1:47:02Trevor Noah?

  I've watched them appreciate time differently.

• 1:47:05Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:06Trevor Noah?

  I like I I you know me, I've never said the phrase time flies. I've never felt like time flies, ever, ever, ever.

• 1:47:12Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:13Trevor Noah?

  But every single friend of mine who is a parent will go, I mean, you look up and you're like, where did the time go?

• 1:47:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:47:19Trevor Noah?

  And I see them yearn for the time, but they never cared for it in the same way before.

• 1:47:23Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:47:23Trevor Noah?

  You know, and I think we take that for granted. We we don't understand, and that's where some people have hacked us, like food companies and stuff, but like, there is something magical about the last chip in a bag.

• 1:47:34Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:34Trevor Noah?

  There really is.

• 1:47:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:47:35Trevor Noah?

  But you know when there's infinite chips?

• 1:47:37Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:38Trevor Noah?

  It doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't have the same anything. There's there's something to a moment.

• 1:47:42Speaker 04

  The plot of Highlander.

• 1:47:44Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 1:47:44Speaker 04

  Or all the vampire movies.

• 1:47:46Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 1:47:46Speaker 04

  Which I also love a vampire movie.

• 1:47:48Trevor Noah?

  There's just something that you lose. And I I think there's a stage in in life that you don't get to experience that's beautiful. Like, you you start slow, you speed up, and then you get slow again.

• 1:48:00Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:00Trevor Noah?

  And I think there's something beautiful in that loop.

• 1:48:02Speaker 04

  What what if you could take your brain and put it in another robot or a cyborg or something like that? And so that's going to happen.

• 1:48:10Trevor Noah?

  So here's what I will say to that. I find it particularly interesting.

• 1:48:15Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:15Trevor Noah?

  That a lot of these people who are doing this will say they have the greatest imaginations.

• 1:48:20Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:20Trevor Noah?

  But then they don't imagine the possibility that there's something beyond what we're in now.

• 1:48:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:48:24Trevor Noah?

  And not necessarily an afterlife, but just like, what if you just locked yourself in this forever? And what?

• 1:48:31Speaker 04

  You don't get to get out.

• 1:48:32Trevor Noah?

  You don't even out or in, what if there's an in? What if there's another, I don't know what is there or isn't there?

• 1:48:37Speaker 04

  That's a really good point.

• 1:48:38Trevor Noah?

  But why would you limit yourself from possibly experiencing? And you're like, oh, but what if you just did? Yeah, well, you won't know.

• 1:48:43Speaker 04

  Well, because they don't believe there is. They don't believe there is something.

• 1:48:46Trevor Noah?

  And that's what I'm saying. Why would you lock? That, to me, is when ideas and imagination start to die.

• 1:48:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:52Trevor Noah?

  You know, one of my favorite things someone ever said, and I hope he sticks to this, was um Jensen Huang, Nvidia CEO.

• 1:48:59Trevor Noah?

  I was talking to him about jobs and AI and, you know, all these things that are gonna happen. And I said to him, what do you think about all the companies who are firing people? Because they've got AI.

• 1:49:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:09Trevor Noah?

  And he said to me, I think every single one of those companies should die. And I was like, whoa, wait, what? And he said, if you are using AI to get rid of employees, you're a company that's run out of ideas.

• 1:49:23Speaker 04

  Ideas, that's right.

• 1:49:24Trevor Noah?

  And he said, because AI should enable you to do more of what you were trying to do. Because now you can, you can expand it infinitely.

• 1:49:30Speaker 04

  Get rid of all the mundane tasks.

• 1:49:32Trevor Noah?

  And Nvidia has shown that. They were like, we make chips. And they were like, maybe we could make software. And also, maybe we could make robots. And maybe we could make warehouses. And maybe we could make cars. And maybe we could make the, and maybe we could, and maybe. And you go like, oh, he's living that ethos.

• 1:49:45Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:46Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean? They're not, there's no mass layoffs. There's no.

• 1:49:48Speaker 04

  Well, today, let me just.

• 1:49:50Trevor Noah?

  No, but that's why I'm saying to you, I hope he sticks to this.

• 1:49:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:53Trevor Noah?

  And whether he does or doesn't, I do believe the message is correct.

• 1:49:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's true. It's like, why do, why is what you're using? We were just talking this on Pivot this week. It's like, why is what you're using AI for is to limit?

• 1:50:03Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 1:50:04Speaker 04

  Right? And by the way, there are mundane tasks people shouldn't do. Like, when's the last time you look at a map? When's the last time you churn butter? When's the last time you, you know, you could go through all kinds of technologies? And time saving is okay for a lot of those. And a lot of, like, a lot of jobs are so rote and machines do do them better. And so what, what, what, the challenge of our society is in the next few governments will be, is, what do you do when things, like, we had a drastic change. Farmers were on the original entrepreneurs. You get it. Deciding what chlorops to pick, whatever to do with the weather. So much like such an entrepreneur to which, which, which plow to use? What, you know, did you do the innovative new plow? Or I always go look at old plows. I'm fascinated.

• 1:50:48Speaker 04

  And as they made the progression and how they eased time for people and backbreaking work. And one of the things that's interesting is what, what part of that do you? When we went from farming to not farming. It was the right decision, right? Because that was artisanal and done in a small way. So what is that right now? And then what can we do to help people transition to the better job?

• 1:51:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:13Speaker 04

  Or what is the better job? Like, I think a lot about self-driving. I love, I love, like, Waymo. I've been in it.

• 1:51:20Trevor Noah?

  They're really fun.

• 1:51:20Speaker 04

  I was in the original, original one.

• 1:51:22Trevor Noah?

  They're really fun.

• 1:51:23Speaker 04

  When they first invented it.

• 1:51:24Trevor Noah?

  You went like the, the...

• 1:51:25Speaker 04

  This was ten, ten, twelve years ago when Google had it in their parking lot. I ran over there. I'm like, put me in this fucking thing and let me see who I can run over. Because I wanted to see how good you guys are.

• 1:51:35Trevor Noah?

  They were like, no, you can't get in the car. But we do have shrimp.

• 1:51:39Speaker 04

  The guy who started it now runs a company called Aurora, which is a self-driving, which is an autonomous trucking company. He's great. He's a great, great entrepreneur. But I made him stand in front of it. I'm like, let's see if you're up to what you just invented.

• 1:51:51Trevor Noah?

  Huh.

• 1:51:51Speaker 04

  And he did it. He stood in front of it and his car stopped. Oh, well. But I kept going, go, go, go.

• 1:51:59Speaker 04

  So, so anyway, so I love them and I know people will be put up jobs. I do, I do. But I'm thinking, for example, trucking is such a dangerous profession for people. It's not a good profession. It's not a good for your family. It's not everything. I know there's a romanticism around trucking, but it shouldn't be done by people. It really shouldn't. Coal mining shouldn't be done by people, like, things like that. And so, okay, you have the autonomous trucks and a lot of our nation is pretty flat. And so they're not going to get in accidents. They get in fewer... The problem is people, not the trucks.

• 1:52:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the people are the anomaly.

• 1:52:32Speaker 04

  The anomaly, right, exactly. And the trucks, once one truck makes a mistake, all the trucks learn. When one person makes a mistake, nobody learns, right? That's how it goes. Unless we have to figure something out to get people the matrix and the chip in their head. So what was interesting to me is, I was like, okay, let's talk about the jobs thing. He goes, here's, here's the thing I'm thinking, because he happens to be a very thoughtful entrepreneur, this guy. He's like, right now, long-haul trucking is really dangerous. It's bad for people physically. It's dangerous. What if all these autonomous trucks went to the edges of cities? And that's the only place, they don't go into cities anymore. And by the way, it solves a problem. And then you get smaller trucks. Driven by people that bring it into the cities.

• 1:53:14Trevor Noah?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:53:15Speaker 04

  You know, of course, the idea of putting them under cities is actually a great idea. But they so you or all the people that are running the fleet, who's who's monitoring the fleet and where it goes. But you create a situation where the truckers then live near where they work rather than drive. And I was like, thank you. You just thought of really, I don't know if that's gonna work, but you could you could sit there and start to think, okay, if the people of Google aren't coding anymore, you know, or if people vibe code, you know what vibe coding is, right?

• 1:53:44Speaker 05

  If people are.

• 1:53:45Trevor Noah?

  Vibing Eugene is.

• 1:53:46Speaker 04

  Do you know what vibe coding is?

• 1:53:47Trevor Noah?

  No, do you know? I'm assuming you don't. That's what I'm saying.

• 1:53:49Speaker 05

  I just figured out today I can rotate my.

• 1:53:51Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so vibe so vibe coding is. The original coding was you had to know the language that a computer speaks.

• 1:53:59Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:53:59Trevor Noah?

  And there were multiple different languages, you know, Java, C plus plus, yeah, coding languages. And then vibe coding now is you're using an AI to basically code on your behalf. And you're saying what you want the code to be.

• 1:54:10Speaker 04

  I want an app to find me a wife and this is my criteria. And not just criteria, it's the prompt. Prompt is the big word now.

• 1:54:17Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:54:17Speaker 04

  Everything is a prompt. What is the prompt? And everything will be created by the, it's it's a question.

• 1:54:22Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:54:22Speaker 04

  It's it is. Answers are, things progress because of questions in this world. And so you're like, I want an app that will make me find a wife and here are my criteria and here's where I want you to search and it will make you the app. It will just happen.

• 1:54:37Trevor Noah?

  So it's vibes.

• 1:54:38Speaker 04

  Right. It's like on Star Trek when you said I would like a turkey sandwich and then it just appeared, that kind of stuff.

• 1:54:44Trevor Noah?

  But you see that, you know, when you when you go back to the world of, yes, vibe coding and what we look for as a future. I I think what makes this business person thoughtful for me is. I don't know them, but I think they understand the nature of work. And I think this is what most people in business have forgotten.

• 1:55:05Speaker 05

  And the significance of it.

• 1:55:06Trevor Noah?

  They forget that a company is a fake thing. They forget that Wall Street is a fake thing. All of these things are imagined, is what I mean, you know, to use the correct words, more imagined, it's more imagined, okay? The purpose of it is to give people something to do to move value around, however we assign it, whether it's time or currency or a product, whatever it is. But that's what generally keeps societies moving and happy and flowing.

• 1:55:34Trevor Noah?

  But once you stop them, once you create a dam, that's when things die. You know what I mean? That's when the sand builds up. That's when, but that's exactly it. And I think they don't realize this. It's funny, you talk about the truck thing. I remember talking to somebody who was also in autonomous trucking. And I said, what if there's a bridge? You think trucks should be autonomous.

• 1:55:57Trevor Noah?

  There are many people who drive trucks for a living who are going to lose their jobs.

• 1:55:59Speaker 04

  Actually, we don't have enough truck drivers, but go ahead.

• 1:56:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, no, but I was like, there are many people who will. But I said, what if you found a bridge in between where the person could drive the truck from home? Like you have an autonomous truck.

• 1:56:12Speaker 04

  And they're there.

• 1:56:13Trevor Noah?

  But it's guided by a truck driver at home. It's very different driving a truck. And then I saw the other day, my youngest brother sent me a video of this. There's some people now who work in like quarries and stuff.

• 1:56:22Speaker 05

  Mine.

• 1:56:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:56:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:23Speaker 04

  And they're not there.

• 1:56:24Trevor Noah?

  They're at home and they're using like the excavator.

• 1:56:26Speaker 04

  The human element is important in decision making, right? And it's the same thing with drones. It's the same thing with, like, at some point, there will be drones that will operate on their own, like autonomously, like.

• 1:56:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:56:36Speaker 04

  And make autonomous decisions. Same thing with sentencing, justice. I mean, that's what's interesting. Like every single industry will be affected. This, the thing about AI is everything. Because what it does is you had Google where you went and put in the thing in the box and then it brought you the answer, but it didn't really bring you the answer. It brought you lots of answers to find. And so it's like, here's a lot, here's a pile of library books. Good luck. That's what Google is like, you know, like, oh, God, there's 10 books here. Where is the answer in these 10 books? Well, it could be here, it sort of gave you a suggestion. Maybe look at this one first.

• 1:57:10Trevor Noah?

  You feeling lucky?

• 1:57:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm feeling lucky.

• 1:57:12Trevor Noah?

  That was my favorite thing on a Google page.

• 1:57:14Speaker 04

  It was.

• 1:57:15Trevor Noah?

  I'm feeling lucky.

• 1:57:17Speaker 04

  It often had the right answer.

• 1:57:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I was just like, what a crazy button to, I'm feeling lucky.

• 1:57:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, they were a funny gang back then, let me tell you.

• 1:57:24Trevor Noah?

  Isn't that dirty, Harry?

• 1:57:25Speaker 04

  No, they were, they were a weird group of people then, I have to say. And they remain this today to this very day. But one of the things that's interesting about that idea is with AI is it doesn't, it actually, and I know hallucinations, blah, blah, it will get it right. Like the original internet, if you recall, was quite ugly and stupid and didn't work. AI will get it right at some point because it will, it will learn and figure out. It could provide you with with things. It could really give you great answers and and and cut the time it requires you to get it and get rid of things that were lots of steps along the way.

• 1:58:03Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:03Speaker 04

  Like making butter.

• 1:58:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  Like or whatever. There's a there's a better way to do it. And so I think we have to approach it like it's a better way to do it. And now what can people do? What is there? What's the human element in deciding these? And I think what I get really worried about is people who really not resist it. I was with a bunch of journalists are the most risk averse people on the planet. I was with a group of people and I was talking about AI coming up with headlines, right? Just for writing headlines.

• 1:58:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:33Speaker 04

  They're very good at it. They can do they can spit out a hundred headlines in five seconds and it takes some creaky old guy to come up with two terrible ideas in three hours, right? Well, we got to keep him in the job. I'm like, but he's bad at it. Like, why is he doing that job?

• 1:58:46Trevor Noah?

  While taking small breaks.

• 1:58:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, right. And and they were like, we can't have people do that. I said, but it's headlines. Like, why? Why do people have to do that? Well, because people decide. I said, well, then spit out a hundred headlines and then a person picks the one. But let the person have the final decision.

• 1:59:02Trevor Noah?

  Exactly. The person doesn't have to be out of the loop.

• 1:59:04Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:59:04Trevor Noah?

  But the person also doesn't have to be doing the grunt labor.

• 1:59:07Speaker 04

  Right. Like, why not? They and by the way, AI comes up with, I would say, seventy nine bad ideas, but twenty one are pretty fucking good. Like, they are. Like, I have to say, you're like, hmm, not bad.

• 1:59:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:20Speaker 04

  And and they were like, well, that's this group of people. Like, that's terrible. I'm like, why are you the hill you're dying on is headlines? When I'm telling you, you need to focus on making products that people want and figure out what the creativity part is. Headlines are not the creative. It's the grunt work. It's the input work. It's the stuff that computers should do, right? Why are people?

• 1:59:42Speaker 04

  Inputting, why? I don't even understand it. And it's really interesting, the resistance is, you know, in media, as you know, I mean, what's happening now at your old play, well, that's another story.

• 1:59:54Speaker 04

  You'd like to get into them, the happy two, but what in the actual fuck?

• 2:00:00Speaker 04

  God, yeah, anyway. But like, for example, I was just with the person who's running MS Now, which I don't particularly like the name, but whatever.

• 2:00:08Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:00:09Speaker 04

  I don't really care what they call it, they can call it Phyllis, I don't really care, but as long as it's good.

• 2:00:13Trevor Noah?

  Phyllis is a great name for a network.

• 2:00:14Speaker 04

  I know, I know, right? It doesn't matter, if it's good, it's good.

• 2:00:16Trevor Noah?

  Did you see what happened on Phyllis?

• 2:00:17Speaker 04

  Phyllis, yeah.

• 2:00:18Trevor Noah?

  I like that, actually.

• 2:00:19Speaker 04

  Barbara.

• 2:00:20Trevor Noah?

  Are you the guy from Phyllis?

• 2:00:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:00:22Trevor Noah?

  Excuse me, ma'am, did I see you, did I see you on Phyllis the other day? I actually like that.

• 2:00:26Speaker 04

  Or Barbara.

• 2:00:26Trevor Noah?

  Barbara's a nice one. But Phyllis is really, that's like a cool.

• 2:00:30Speaker 04

  It is a cool name.

• 2:00:31Speaker 05

  I can't hear the word Phyllis without thinking about.

• 2:00:33Speaker 04

  Phyllis Diller?

• 2:00:34Speaker 05

  Syphilis.

• 2:00:35Speaker 04

  Syphilis, oh, good.

• 2:00:36Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn.

• 2:00:36Speaker 04

  Wow, you went there.

• 2:00:37Trevor Noah?

  Is that the fool?

• 2:00:40Trevor Noah?

  Wow, Eugene. Huh.

• 2:00:42Speaker 04

  Syphilis?

• 2:00:42Trevor Noah?

  As you were. No, please, Cara.

• 2:00:46Speaker 04

  So, one of the things I was talking, it's called Versant, which I'm like, also causes rash in your, you know, causes vaginal rash. Also solves your vaginal rash problems. And this executive's like, that's not funny. I go, no, that's funny. That's funny, come on, the name Versant? You walked right into it by calling the stupid thing Versant. So, so anyways, AI came up with that name. And so, half the people there, it's really interesting, are like, oh, no, like, oh, no. And I was like, no, this is a golden fucking opportunity, be creative and make things people want. And if you don't, you get to leave, like, if you can't. And to me, the people I really like are the ones that are like, okay, this is, we're now freed of all this other shit.

• 2:01:30Speaker 04

  Now we can make cool stuff. Same thing, you know, at so many of these places, they now have the opportunity. I have a rule when I make companies, I've made, everything I've made has been pretty successful, very successful, actually. And, and someone was like, what's your secret sauce for making things? And I go, I make things people want, and I sell them.

• 2:01:52Speaker 04

  They're like, what? And I said, and I asked myself this one question when I'm making something and it's whether I know it's right or not. Did anyone ever ask for this? Like, a lot of people make, a lot of corporations make. Did anyone ever ask, like Washington Post did, let's let sources make comments in the stories that our reporters write. And they think it's brilliant, this one person.

• 2:02:12Trevor Noah?

  But did anyone ever ask for that?

• 2:02:13Speaker 04

  Did anyone ever fuck, I said, did anyone ever fucking ask for this? They're like, no, but it's cool. I'm like, but it's not. I'm like, who wants that? Like, who? Except the sources who get to like clap back at the reporters.

• 2:02:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:25Speaker 04

  So they wanted it, but does that make you more money? Like, you know.

• 2:02:28Trevor Noah?

  Does it even make the product better?

• 2:02:29Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:02:30Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean? Does it serve your reader more? Does it inform them? Does it create? Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 04

  Right, right, exactly. And so often they try to make, they don't think about what people want. And that's what I think about that all the time. So I think they'll do great if they make things people want and they keep the costs in line. Doesn't seem very good.

• 2:02:45Trevor Noah?

  This has been amazing.

• 2:02:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:46Trevor Noah?

  I love this.

• 2:02:47Speaker 04

  Do you miss TV? I'm curious.

• 2:02:48Trevor Noah?

  Do I miss TV?

• 2:02:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:51Trevor Noah?

  I don't think I ever liked TV.

• 2:02:53Speaker 04

  Oh, really? Interesting.

• 2:02:54Trevor Noah?

  No, like, the thing. No, no, but what I mean is this is like, I, I, I hope I'm not getting too didactic with this answer, but it's like.

• 2:03:01Speaker 04

  Please do.

• 2:03:02Trevor Noah?

  The, so even like, let's say podcast. I always laugh at that. I go, what does that mean? If there's a camera, if there's a, then is it a podcast? Is it not?

• 2:03:12Speaker 04

  It's a broadcast.

• 2:03:12Trevor Noah?

  People love giving things names. It's a TV movie. It's a movie.

• 2:03:18Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:03:18Trevor Noah?

  No, it's a TV movie. It's a movie. You're just watching it on TV.

• 2:03:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:22Trevor Noah?

  All of these things. So for me, what I genuinely, the thing that I miss, the only thing that I miss is engaging with the human beings that I engage with.

• 2:03:31Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 2:03:31Trevor Noah?

  So I loved working on problems and ideas with a team. I love the jokes that we would tell each other in the writers' room. I love the meetings that we would have. I love meeting with the audience and having them ask questions. That's all that I miss genuinely. And my friends, I think, can account for this. If you told me. That none of that actually ended up on TV and I was just like being scammed. I would go like, man, I still had a great time.

• 2:03:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:56Trevor Noah?

  And I, I, that's how I think of it for my life is I go. I wish to be partaking in the activity.

• 2:04:02Speaker 04

  Of creativity.

• 2:04:03Trevor Noah?

  With the people that I love.

• 2:04:04Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:04:05Trevor Noah?

  And then I'll, I'll, I'll enjoy that and I'll come out on the other side with, with an experience. But the actual TV side of it.

• 2:04:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. Doesn't really matter either. That's the thing that, that's something a lot of people media don't get. I used to say, like, one of the things, they were, they were always like, oh, if this goes and this was like, no, if you make great stuff, it'll sell every single fucking time.

• 2:04:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it just.

• 2:04:26Speaker 04

  And, and I think they get stuck into the system more than anything.

• 2:04:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:30Speaker 04

  Rather than what they're actually making. And so process always takes over. And one of the things that, I've just recently started doing a series of podcasts, a media that works. I'm so sick of the doom scrolling and oh, media. I, all I talk to is people who are, and some of them work like the woman who's running Wired. She's kicking ass because she's making great stuff. She decided to double down on Doge. She has really interesting stories. She was part of a corporation. I'm not just doing entrepreneurs. She's, she, her subscriptions are up like a hundred percent. Why? Because she's making things people want. So I interviewed her. Oliver Darcy, who does media writing, he left CNN to do it. I interviewed him. There's a guy at the Post that I helped figure out how to leave, who does videos on TikTok.

• 2:05:11Speaker 04

  Like, all kinds of people are approaching it from different ways. And so I, and using technology to do so. And I think it's really important to keep at heart. All this important is what you're making. Like, what's the thing you're saying or doing or writing? Or what's the story you're telling?

• 2:05:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:26Speaker 04

  That doesn't change. And technology doesn't make it any better. Like, doesn't. It just doesn't. People do. A hundred percent. No question.

• 2:05:35Trevor Noah?

  I love this. Thank you so much.

• 2:05:36Speaker 04

  All right. Thank you.

• 2:05:37Trevor Noah?

  I hope we see you again.

• 2:05:38Speaker 04

  Yes, anytime. His wedding, obviously.

• 2:05:41Trevor Noah?

  Ah.

• 2:05:42Speaker 04

  When you fix him up.

• 2:05:43Trevor Noah?

  Walking down the aisle. Here comes Eugene Cozer.

• 2:05:48Speaker 04

  Well, you need a.

• 2:05:48Trevor Noah?

  This morning.

• 2:05:52Speaker 04

  You need a Sopranos fan, obviously. That's, that's, that should be a top on your list.

• 2:05:57Trevor Noah?

  You need somebody who's never watched The Sopranos because that'll be the greatest chore.

• 2:06:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:01Trevor Noah?

  There's nothing better than introducing somebody. No, introducing someone to. No, they'll, they can't not like it.

• 2:06:06Speaker 04

  What if they don't?

• 2:06:07Trevor Noah?

  But that's how you'll know that they love you. No, that's how, I mean it honestly, is that's where I feel like you'll, you'll explore something. They'll, they'll be like through your eyes, why do you love it so much?

• 2:06:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:18Trevor Noah?

  Or they'll hate it and you'll still be a great couple.

• 2:06:19Speaker 04

  Actually, you can, you can get along. Like, my wife is like, I'd love to live in Brooklyn. I said, I'd rather poke my eye with a dry stick.

• 2:06:27Speaker 05

  The whole entire eye?

• 2:06:28Speaker 04

  The entire eye.

• 2:06:30Speaker 05

  Like totally.

• 2:06:31Speaker 04

  If I have to go in a co-op, I'll kill myself. I'm like, give me, give me the four dollar apple and leave me the, I don't want to talk. I don't want to work for it. I would like, but I'm not a Burning Man gal, so. Do you go to Burning Man?

• 2:06:44Trevor Noah?

  No, I've never been. I want to go though.

• 2:06:46Speaker 04

  Why?

• 2:06:46Trevor Noah?

  Because I want to experience everything in life. It doesn't matter.

• 2:06:48Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:06:49Trevor Noah?

  I've, I've been in dirty before.

• 2:06:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can't, you know why?

• 2:06:51Trevor Noah?

  No, I have been in dirty before.

• 2:06:52Speaker 05

  Tell us more.

• 2:06:53Trevor Noah?

  I've even told you this.

• 2:06:55Speaker 05

  You see what's happening now?

• 2:06:56Trevor Noah?

  What, what?

• 2:06:57Speaker 04

  You seem very clean today.

• 2:06:58Trevor Noah?

  How am I copying you?

• 2:06:59Speaker 05

  He's like, I told you about my dirty, dirty.

• 2:07:01Trevor Noah?

  But what, no, what, what?

• 2:07:02Speaker 04

  I'm so glad you could learn more about each other.

• 2:07:04Trevor Noah?

  What is dirty?

• 2:07:05Speaker 05

  This is me all the time.

• 2:07:06Trevor Noah?

  What is the dirtiest thing about Burning Man? Dirt? Like the actual dirt?

• 2:07:09Speaker 04

  Actual dirt.

• 2:07:10Trevor Noah?

  Kara, have you been to Hamas Krall? Have you been to Hamas Krall?

• 2:07:14Speaker 04

  No, what is that?

• 2:07:15Trevor Noah?

  Exactly, Kara.

• 2:07:16Speaker 04

  Is this, is this your country again? Is this your country?

• 2:07:19Trevor Noah?

  No, like, what I mean is like, the thing that, the thing, yeah, thank you, Eugene.

• 2:07:23Speaker 05

  You win.

• 2:07:23Trevor Noah?

  The thing that people, I like, I loved going to the homelands and like, when someone goes Burning Man, I'm like, this is not.

• 2:07:29Speaker 04

  Oh, that's true. It's kind of a whim thing.

• 2:07:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:32Speaker 04

  Here's why I can't go to Burning Man, because a lot of tech guys go there and they're going to slip me like ayahuasca and then I'm going to end up in some trailer in Reno, married to a man. Like, something will happen.

• 2:07:44Trevor Noah?

  I like that the end of the bad story was married to a man.

• 2:07:48Speaker 04

  I will end up, there will be pictures, there will be pictures, they will, I will not, I do not, when I go to these companies now, I'm like this, I'm like, don't touch.

• 2:07:56Trevor Noah?

  Just cover everything.

• 2:07:57Speaker 04

  Cover everything.

• 2:07:57Trevor Noah?

  No, man, I would.

• 2:07:58Speaker 04

  You know, they do that with presidents.

• 2:08:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no.

• 2:08:00Speaker 04

  I was interviewing Obama, they put a thing on the.

• 2:08:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, they don't even.

• 2:08:03Speaker 04

  And I went to touch it and the Secret Service lost their fucking mind.

• 2:08:06Trevor Noah?

  They wouldn't even, when you interview like presidents and that, they, they don't even let you have the water. They don't, they, yeah, no, they bring everything with them. They, yeah.

• 2:08:14Speaker 04

  Of course, what's the first thing I did was like.

• 2:08:17Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell, can I tell you one of, can I tell you one of the funniest moments I ever had like that was, um, it was Gayle King invite, this is like early, early, early when I was like just in the US hosting the Daily Show. Gayle King invited me to the Kennedy Center Honors.

• 2:08:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're fun, they're fun. I covered them as a young reporter.

• 2:08:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but in Obama's box.

• 2:08:38Speaker 04

  Oh, what?

• 2:08:39Trevor Noah?

  You see, now you're with me.

• 2:08:41Speaker 04

  Gail, she's always up to things. That Gail.

• 2:08:44Trevor Noah?

  I, I remember, I remember, I remember going, wait, she was like, Trevor, come with me. And you know how Gail, she's like, Trevor, you're gonna love it.

• 2:08:52Speaker 04

  She's like that, she's like that.

• 2:08:53Trevor Noah?

  Do you know Gail from TV?

• 2:08:54Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 2:08:55Trevor Noah?

  Then you know Gail.

• 2:08:55Speaker 04

  She's exactly right.

• 2:08:56Trevor Noah?

  Gail is the most person of, yeah.

• 2:08:58Speaker 05

  She's the most Gail person you've ever met.

• 2:09:00Trevor Noah?

  Gail's like Gail. So Gail, she was like, Trevor, you gotta come, Kennedy. I was like, okay, we get there.

• 2:09:07Trevor Noah?

  We don't go to the main section. We go into President Barack Obama's box. Walk in, there he is, Secret Service, Trevor, are you coming to watch the show? We're gonna have a good time, good time. It's gonna be good. You ever been here before? So we're in there, we go, we sit down, and then the show starts, and I'm sitting right behind him. And the Secret Service is like, like way back there. And I'm, to your point of like the glass, I'm like staring at his head and I was looking at like the, the,

• 2:09:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:09:34Trevor Noah?

  The hairs on the back of his head and the, and, and I was just like, when was the last time somebody like hit his head?

• 2:09:41Speaker 05

  That's how William Booth became who he was.

• 2:09:44Trevor Noah?

  No, let me, let me explain.

• 2:09:46Speaker 04

  John Wilkes Booth.

• 2:09:47Trevor Noah?

  No, John Wilkes Booth. No, cause no, but I, let me explain, let me explain.

• 2:09:52Speaker 04

  So you thought about hitting his head?

• 2:09:53Trevor Noah?

  No, I did not, I did not think about hitting his head.

• 2:09:55Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:09:55Speaker 05

  This is not the first time you almost got killed by the Secret Service.

• 2:09:57Trevor Noah?

  You're gonna get the Secret Service coming, no. I, I just thought to myself, cause I always, I want this for people.

• 2:10:03Speaker 05

  Why are you criminal? I've got a visa, I have to.

• 2:10:05Speaker 04

  I can't wait to see where this is ending, but go ahead. Land the plane.

• 2:10:08Trevor Noah?

  I love for people to have human experiences. And I've asked President Obama this in person, I've gone, do you miss being called by your name?

• 2:10:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:10:15Trevor Noah?

  Do you miss somebody not knowing you? He does share that he, he does miss many of those things. He has dreams of being on a park bench. Like literally that's his dream.

• 2:10:22Speaker 04

  Not anymore, never again.

• 2:10:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but that's what I mean. He dreams of that. He's like, oh man, I, you know?

• 2:10:27Speaker 05

  Same in his voice.

• 2:10:28Trevor Noah?

  And when I was there. I like I was like.

• 2:10:31Speaker 05

  He will spout.

• 2:10:33Trevor Noah?

  I imagined.

• 2:10:33Speaker 05

  Trevor Noah will spout.

• 2:10:34Trevor Noah?

  No, I imagined like. Wow.

• 2:10:35Speaker 05

  The second.

• 2:10:36Trevor Noah?

  When was the last time in his life that somebody just went pap on Barack Obama's head?

• 2:10:40Speaker 05

  Michelle probably does it.

• 2:10:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:10:42Trevor Noah?

  Oh, maybe, but I just thought that would be so cool for him to be like, what? Like.

• 2:10:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:10:46Trevor Noah?

  In that, but then I was like, how close is the secret service? Would they think I'm trying to kill him?

• 2:10:49Speaker 04

  Yes, they would.

• 2:10:50Speaker 05

  They would.

• 2:10:51Trevor Noah?

  That's the problem.

• 2:10:51Speaker 04

  They would.

• 2:10:52Trevor Noah?

  So I was unable to afford him the experience.

• 2:10:54Speaker 04

  I'm glad you didn't touch him.

• 2:10:55Trevor Noah?

  I did not touch him.

• 2:10:56Speaker 04

  Can I tell you a very brief Obama story?

• 2:10:57Trevor Noah?

  Go, go.

• 2:10:58Speaker 04

  So we did a interview and he was talking to digital people that, you know, they decided, let's get some digital people, you know, that you know, some stupid marketing person or PR person in the room. So I get one of the things and the other one was, remember the woman with the green lips on MTV and I'm blanking on her name? She had green lips and she was an MTV.

• 2:11:17Trevor Noah?

  Oh, she was a VJ?

• 2:11:17Speaker 04

  VJ, right. So she gets an interview, I get an interview, but then they cut my interview by 10 minutes and give it to her. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like the lick, I'm sorry, I'm in, you know, I don't mean to say, don't you know who I am, but you just cut my interview by 10 minutes. So that's hard when you have it planned out in your head, right? And everything, so.

• 2:11:34Trevor Noah?

  Cause you've planned the whole thing out.

• 2:11:36Speaker 04

  I planned the whole thing and I'm like, now I gotta do something. So we sit down and the glass is there and I'm thinking of touching the glass, but then I, that'll take off another five minutes off because it'll be to five minutes of moving the glass around. So, um, so he, so he sits down, he's right, need to meet with me and I go, listen, they just cut 10 minutes off my interview. And here's the problem I have with you is you talk too much and you never have a pair, you, you talk in paragraphs, you never stop talking. I understand you've been president for six years. Everyone listens to you, but I'm going to interrupt you and I'm sure you're not used to that because no one interrupts you, but I'm about to interrupt you a lot because they cut my fucking 10 minutes. So just be aware, you're maybe not used to it, but try to remember when people used to interrupt you, okay? Great. And he looks at me, he goes, I heard you were obnoxious.

• 2:12:21Speaker 04

  And I go, I am. And we started the interview. The whole interview, he was so pithy, I totally like mind fucked him to do it. So later, I totally mind, he completely fell for it. And so, and I was always, I, I got in an argument with him too, because one, you have to figure out what in an interview is the thing. And he does not like getting mad and I kept trying to get him mad because he's, he's resisting anger, right? Cause he doesn't want to be angry black guy, I guess.

• 2:12:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:12:47Speaker 04

  I don't know. Whatever. I kept trying to get him mad. And so we do the interview, it was very testy, actually, it was a very testy interview because everyone sort of is not testy to him. And I was like, I'm going for testy. So. Months, months and months later, when he was leaving office, my ex-wife worked for him as the CTO. And when you, when he ends his administration, every, it's such a lovely thing. You go into the Oval Office and meet him and you get a handshake and a picture. Everything, from Susan Rice on down, gets this.

• 2:13:14Trevor Noah?

  Right, every single question.

• 2:13:15Speaker 04

  It's lovely. It's a lovely tradition. So, my ex-wife goes, hey, come with us. It'd be really nice to have the whole family there. The sons would love it. It would be really great. So we go, I go, I don't know, he doesn't like me very much. He doesn't.

• 2:13:27Trevor Noah?

  For good reason.

• 2:13:28Speaker 04

  Yes, no, but he...

• 2:13:29Trevor Noah?

  I poked and prodded him until he lost his cool.

• 2:13:32Speaker 04

  And so, we walk in the Oval Office, and he goes, how did you get in here? And I was like, so then, so then it gets worse. So I was like, I didn't want to be here either, trust me. I don't really want to spend time with you either. And so, he goes, fine, we'll take the picture. And he knows everything about everybody. Must be given cards or little factoids. You know how they know, like, so you're... So he goes to my oldest son, and he goes, Louis, I hear you're such a good cook, and if you open a restaurant someday, can you come? And Louis goes, yeah, yeah, sure, absolutely, Mr. President. I'll cook you a great meal. And my other son, who's a techie, and he goes, Alex, do you, you know, you wanna, um, you wanna do, uh, when I, when your company, would you let me invest in your company? And my son goes, maybe.

• 2:14:13Trevor Noah?

  That's your boy.

• 2:14:16Speaker 04

  And he goes, this is your son. I was like, yes, he is. Maybe. We'll see if we'll let you on the cap table. We're not sure if you're worthy. And I just love, we had a recent back and forth because I had said, I thought he should step a little more and stop hanging out with celebrities and go say something, because Trump was problematic. And I thought he hung back too much.

• 2:14:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:40Speaker 04

  So, I got all this pushback, because they're like, oh, why should he come in and do it? I'm like, because he's the most important Democrat in existence, and it's a compliment to him, which I don't tend to pay him. So, I would, I would say, he's the one who has to stand up until they figure out who the next, you know, leader is. And I got, I got a text from their office, they're like, we don't think he has to, you know, he, he doesn't have to step up. I was like, oh, no, he has to step up. I don't care what you say.

• 2:15:04Trevor Noah?

  I don't know, I think there's, I think there's a paradox there. We've, we've, we talked about this with like a friend.

• 2:15:08Speaker 04

  For the moment.

• 2:15:09Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, I, I, here's what I think it is. I think damned if you do, damned if you don't. Right? So... If Obama continues to step in, there will never be somebody else who steps in. And then you you sort of don't create, no, I genuinely believe this. I think like people, people will often say, and I I've seen this happen when there was like the rallies, even when Biden was running, Kamala was running, all of these things. He would come out and then people would be like, oh, why isn't it that guy? And you know where you you're sort of not helping.

• 2:15:36Speaker 05

  So he would end up cockblocking the next person.

• 2:15:38Trevor Noah?

  That's what I mean. You are cockblocking.

• 2:15:40Speaker 04

  Right now, we're under extenuating emergency circumstances.

• 2:15:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I would argue in this moment in time, and I mean, everyone will disagree or agree. I would argue in this moment in time, I don't know that he would have necessarily the best impact. I actually think, you know, like Star Trek and New Generation type thing. I think like the Zorans and the whatever. People are not going to be.

• 2:16:04Trevor Noah?

  If Obama was to step in now, I can very quickly see people turning around and going like, how did you let this happen? And all of a sudden, it becomes like this, like.

• 2:16:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, maybe.

• 2:16:10Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 2:16:11Speaker 04

  I I think he should. I think I I think he has so much gravitas and it's an emergency situation and he will help the transition. And it's a different media world now. Everything's, everyone's operating as if it's the same thing. And it's not this, it is indeed not the same thing.

• 2:16:27Trevor Noah?

  It is not the same thing for sure.

• 2:16:28Speaker 04

  And so acting like the Democrats are peacetime, like.

• 2:16:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I mean, come on.

• 2:16:32Speaker 04

  Stop it, like, stop Chuck Schumer. Turn off the social media cameras right now because you suck. But like what Zorn Mandami is doing, what Newsom is doing, that's what's required, which is muscular. And I don't mean that in a gender specific way. It's like, it's muscular, it's aggressive, it's promiscuous, and it's constant from a thing. And it's a very different thing. And Obama has a an incredible charisma and charm that will take it to the next thing that needs to be to counter. And he is the counter at this moment. And then he brings up people like, I don't, I don't know. I just, anyway, if you notice, he's been saying a lot more lately.

• 2:17:08Trevor Noah?

  He has now, yes.

• 2:17:08Speaker 04

  So I irritated him, like, a lot of us.

• 2:17:11Trevor Noah?

  Just like rubbed him.

• 2:17:11Speaker 04

  Right, I was like, don't you think? And, you know, I think it's, I think he's, and I was like, I'm paying you a fucking compliment for once. So.

• 2:17:21Speaker 05

  You got Barack activated, Trevor almost hit him at the back of the head.

• 2:17:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I know. I wasn't trying to physically hurt him. You thought about it for a second. I thought about whether or not he had experienced.

• 2:17:35Speaker 04

  You know what? He didn't think about hitting. He wanted to rub his hands softly.

• 2:17:39Trevor Noah?

  I wondered, when was the last time he had a very human experience of somebody sitting behind you and just

• 2:17:44Speaker 04

  doing that on your head? He should have touched his ear. Next time you see him, will you touch his ear for us?

• 2:17:48Trevor Noah?

  I will not. I will not because I want my pictures and I do not want to be on enemy terms with Barack Obama. Now, when I walk in the room, he's gonna be like, "Ah, you? Oh, you and Cara?"

• 2:17:59Speaker 04

  You know what I'm gonna do?

• 2:18:00Trevor Noah?

  How did you get in here, Trevor?

• 2:18:01Speaker 04

  Next time I see him, I'm gonna touch his ear. I'm gonna ask because I'm a consent kind of girl. "May I touch your ear?"

• 2:18:08Trevor Noah?

  I want no part of this.

• 2:18:10Speaker 04

  I'm gonna say it was your idea.

• 2:18:11Trevor Noah?

  No part of this. No part of... He'll know it was not my idea.

• 2:18:15Speaker 04

  No, I'll say, "No, it was." He'll tell you it wasn't his idea.

• 2:18:18Trevor Noah?

  He will know for a fact.

• 2:18:19Speaker 04

  It was his idea.

• 2:18:21Trevor Noah?

  Remember when he told us?

• 2:18:22Speaker 04

  I'll put the doubt in his mind.

• 2:18:23Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. If there's one thing he will know is that it was not my idea.

• 2:18:29Speaker 04

  No, it was.

• 2:18:30Speaker 05

  Remember when Trevor said he wants to hold both of his ears?

• 2:18:32Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 2:18:33Trevor Noah?

  I'm out.

• 2:18:33Speaker 04

  You told...

• 2:18:34Trevor Noah?

  I'm out.

• 2:18:38Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Hardworth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.

• 2:19:08Trevor Noah?

  Football season is here and the fantasy footballers are back to help you dominate your...

• 2:19:13Speaker 05

  League and this season we're bringing you five episodes every week. That's more starts, more sits, more waiver wire wins and more trades. From draft day all the way to your fantasy championship. We've got the rankings, the matchups, the news and the advice you need to win. The Fantasy Footballers Podcast, five episodes a week all season long. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:19:38Speaker 01

  Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. It's the tangiest time of the year. For a limited time, head to McDonald's and get a McRib sandwich. Make it a meal by adding a medium fries and a soft drink like an ice cold Diet Dr. Pepper. So grab a McRib sandwich and embrace the tang. Save time by ordering ahead on the app and participate in McDonald's for a limited time. Dr. Pepper is a registered trademark of Dr. Pepper, 7-Up Inc.