WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: First Week

Less than one week in, the 2026 FIFA World Cup is already delivering surprises. Trevor and his football frenemy Joe Opio discuss Germany's 7-1 rout of Curaçao, whether Mexico beat South Africa or South Africa lost to Mexico and why those aren't the same thing, and a statement win from the US against Paraguay. They also dive into the ways football is borrowing from basketball, hand out some early flowers (and a few early critiques), and try to figure out what we've actually learned from a tournament that seems determined to keep everyone guessing.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Trevor Noah?

  This episode is brought to you by Verizon. As an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026, Verizon is bringing once in a lifetime experiences to their customers. Free tickets to matches, pitch side access during gameplay, and meet and greet with soccer legends. If you're not with Verizon, no sweat. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their offers for new customers. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon.

• 0:36Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now with Trevor Noah. We made it, Joe.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Oh, we did.

• 0:42Trevor Noah?

  We made it. Here we are.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Finally.

• 0:43Trevor Noah?

  What is this? Uh, eight years of planning, four years of waiting, and then one week of chaos. Welcome to week one of the 2026 FIFA World Cup hosted by Mexico, the United States, and Canada. You know, even saying it makes it feel as as jam-packed as it's been. More countries hosting than ever before, more games than ever before, more countries participating than ever before. I don't remember the last time I started watching a game in the same country as the games are hosted, by the way, at midnight.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, first of all, the gestation period. When you say eight years, I went like, actually, it's been eight years.

• 1:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's been eight years of planning, yeah.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Eight years in which, wow. But I feel like now that we are here, and that's the thing about the World Cup, now that we are here, it feels like it was worth the wait.

• 1:39Trevor Noah?

  It does. Yeah, it does. Maybe, maybe that's a good place to start. Like, let's, let's jump straight into the games. Um, who surprised you? Who has underwhelmed you? Who shows promise? I mean, like, if we think of the big teams, the one that comes top of mind, you know, because it was one of the most recent games, Germany.

• 1:58Trevor Noah?

  They're the first like big team who said we're a big team. They're the first team who's shown that they're a big team.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  They needed it. They had a scare, of course, at one one. You went like, oh, here it goes again, because Germany, after winning the World Cup in Brazil twenty fourteen, they failed in the next two World Cups to make it past the group stages. Twenty eighteen, they stayed behind, having lost to Mexico in the opening game. And then last World Cup, they lost to Japan and things went downhill from there. So they needed this win. But then when Kurasaw equalized, you went like, oh, here it goes again. Here it goes again. So yeah, Germany have definitely, definitely. That was a statement win.

• 2:34Trevor Noah?

  It definitely was. I mean, beating a team seven one. You know, you think at like five one, you start relaxing.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Germans don't show mercy.

• 2:41Trevor Noah?

  No, they don't. They really don't.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  But the funny thing is the reaction from Kurasaw. Like, I've been online and Kurasaw fans, credit to them, are like, for us, this was historic. The fact that we were invited to the high table and we held our own for as long as we did. And we scored our first World Cup goal ever, smallest country ever take part in a World Cup. One hundred fifty thousand people, it means a lot to them. So for them, because we were comparing them to Brazil.

• 3:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  We went like, oh, seven one, oh, Brazil has handed over the mantle. They went like, no, we are proud. Brazil was traumatized. For us today, it was a national holiday.

• 3:15Trevor Noah?

  It is amazing. You know, one of the things that I love about the World Cup is how every team comes to the World Cup with a different objective in mind.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:21Trevor Noah?

  Like every, every team. So if you come in as one of the, the big teams, if you're France, if you're Spain, if you're Germany, if you are Argentina. Anything less than success, anything less than victory is deemed a failure.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:34Trevor Noah?

  If you come in as one of like the middling teams, then it's like, can you get far?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:41Trevor Noah?

  You know, so like, no one's expecting Japan to win. No one's expecting Cordova to win. No one's expecting South Korea to win. No one's expecting, you know, Kurasaw to. But then there's teams like Kurasaw, actually, and like, and like Qatar and all these teams where it's like. If they get one goal.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 3:57Trevor Noah?

  They they treat it like they've won the World Cup.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yes, and I I think in fairness to Kurasao, they were handed the toughest opening game of all the small teams.

• 4:07Trevor Noah?

  You think so?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yes, because Haiti, you know, they lost to Scotland, but Scotland, you go like, you know, if Scotland had beaten Haiti seven one, you can be disappointed. But they're facing Germany, who are four time, it's like the worst way to welcome them to the World Cup party.

• 4:22Trevor Noah?

  Or the best way.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Germans. Oh, you're actually.

• 4:24Trevor Noah?

  Or the best way.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Because it can only go up.

• 4:26Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know, I don't know if you, I don't know if you saw this, after the game, some of the German players went and prayed with the.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 4:34Trevor Noah?

  With the, with the players from Kurasao. And I was just like, it was like a beautiful moment, but I was also like, that's when you know someone has demolished you, is when they even gonna pray with you after the game.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  You're like, sportsmanship.

• 4:44Trevor Noah?

  Like.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  I like that, though.

• 4:46Trevor Noah?

  That's when I knew, that's when I knew that, like, you know, when I got, like, the biggest spankings from my mom was when she prayed with me afterwards. She was like.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Oh, when she was like, yeah.

• 4:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, she was like, now that you got your beating, come, let's pray. Let's pray that this never happens to you again. Pray for forgiveness, Trevor.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  It seems like the Germans had a bit of residual guilt. They were like.

• 5:05Trevor Noah?

  I've never, I've never seen that, though. I've never, I've never seen.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  They didn't do it to Brazil, certainly.

• 5:09Trevor Noah?

  No, they didn't. And Brazil also has religious players in the team.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but they went and they prayed with them, which I liked. It had the spirit of the World Cup. You know, you know who didn't pray after beating their opponents? Mexico against South Africa in the opening. Yo, man.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  To be fair, I thought South Africans, I, and I told you this, I think South Africa beat itself. I don't think Mexico beat South Africa.

• 5:33Trevor Noah?

  You don't think so?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  No, I don't think.

• 5:34Trevor Noah?

  Okay, it's, it's more how?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  So they committed an error at the opening. The opening goal was a gift.

• 5:40Trevor Noah?

  Uh, by the defensive midfielder, receives the ball, yeah, turned.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:45Trevor Noah?

  He scanned way earlier.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:47Trevor Noah?

  Received the ball, but his touch was horrific. And then he was chasing the ball and then it was too late.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yes, and then, you know, the two red cards didn't help. So for me, I feel like South Africa, I, I'm, look, I know South Africans think that maybe their team is hopeless after that. But I think the result, I think the. South Africa was very, first of all, they played way cautiously.

• 6:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Way, they played almost negatively.

• 6:11Trevor Noah?

  That's, that's the issue that I think South Africans have is we're not concerned about like, we don't think the team's hopeless.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 6:17Trevor Noah?

  It didn't look like we were trying to win the game and you don't go through by drawing three, three games.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 6:22Trevor Noah?

  You get what I'm saying? Like, you don't come to a World Cup, draw three games and then think that's enough to take you through.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  No, but also if you go as a coach, if you go, okay, we're going to play conservatively. They were, let's say, Japan played the opening minutes of their game against.

• 6:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  You go like, I'm going to play, you're hoping none of your players makes a mistake. Cause then when your player makes a mistake and then you gift the other team a goal, now your plan goes out of the window.

• 6:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but then I would, but then I would argue, right? If you're playing a game like that, you're playing against a team that has way more players playing in Europe.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 6:52Trevor Noah?

  You know, the Mexican team, even on paper, seems like a better team than South Africa. Then do what, do what Japan did against the Netherlands in the, in the first half. They didn't, they didn't waste too much time holding the ball.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 7:04Trevor Noah?

  They made sure they moved the ball to the other side of the field.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:06Trevor Noah?

  Get the ball out of your danger area, then play, see if you can get a few shots. See if you can, because the pressure, people, the pressure's on you. Mexico's at home in a historic stadium. Their fans are all behind them. All of Africa is up against you as South Africa.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 7:20Trevor Noah?

  So you have like double the fan base against you and there's the nerves. There's the nerves of all of this. Why are you playing a game that relies on calm when you're that nervous? I would have just, to be honest, I would, I would have played that game out. I would have played it closer to Japan. Who, yo?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  They had a great, but you, you asked me about the team that surprised me the most. Japan, I expected it.

• 7:41Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  The team, cause Japan, you know, as I told you, they have beaten Spain, they have beaten Germany in the last World Cup.

• 7:47Trevor Noah?

  Right, right, right.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  They've beaten Brazil and they've beaten England in their friendlies. I expected, I expected them to hold their own against the Dutch. The team that surprised, the team that blew me away was the US. I watched that game, you couldn't recognize the USA, you kept asking, who is this?

• 8:02Trevor Noah?

  The United States of Spain, that's what that was.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  That was incredible, yes.

• 8:05Trevor Noah?

  The United States of Goulazos, the United States of Tiki Taka, the United States of Total Football, the United States of Travellas, the United States of Total, like, the pressing up the field. Do you know what I mean? When you, when you look at that team and how they were playing the game, yo, I, I still cannot get over. Okay, here's, here's what's more interesting to me. It's not the fact that Team USA played the way that they did. It's that Team USA seems to have hidden this until now.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  They did beat Uruguay for one, which was impressive, but I thought it was a one-off.

• 8:36Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but beat, this is how they play.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, it was very un-American. And I know normally in America, that's a bad thing, but when it comes to football, football styles, that was a very un-American style. They were, it was yoga bonito.

• 8:52Trevor Noah?

  It was truly yoga bonito, yeah, the beautiful game.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Anthony Robinson was inviting, Sadio Mane was inviting, they were attacking. Pulisic was having fun on the wing. You had Weston McKenney making like runs into the box. It was, every player deserved a ten.

• 9:08Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you, if you, if you invested in all of those players before that game, you would be receiving the highest return on investment. Like, their, their stock price after that game has skyrocketed.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  You'd be receiving higher returns than even the SpaceX employee.

• 9:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, no, no, this is like, this is, there's no one, like, Balogun, for instance, he went from, who is this guy? Only like deep football fans knew Balogun, and now he is a sought-after striker.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  He runs off the ball in that game.

• 9:36Trevor Noah?

  His touches on the ball.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  His touches, yes.

• 9:38Trevor Noah?

  He's striking.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  The goal he scored, the second goal was insane. That touch to him, oh my god. And again, because now I'm wondering, do we credit Pochettino for that? Because these are the same players, these same players.

• 9:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Under the old coach, Greg Bellalter. It's the same team exactly, almost the same exact team.

• 9:58Trevor Noah?

  Same team, Ballagan, everyone.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yes, but they've changed, something has changed.

• 10:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, then you have to credit the coach.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  And I think people, that's, that's when people go like, oh, you need a top coach as well. You need a top coach, like, cause normally, you know, the coaches for the international teams don't get as much time with the players.

• 10:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they don't.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  So it's harder for them to impose their philosophy, but Pochettino has clearly found a way.

• 10:17Trevor Noah?

  No, he's found a way. I mean, has he also found pressure now, though? Like, do, do, do, I, I always wonder if you wanna just win versus thrash the opponent going into the next game. Cause I, part of me wonders if now Team USA has put a target on their backs.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:31Trevor Noah?

  And at, at most World Cups, I find the winner is generally somebody who escapes the, the, the magnifying glass at the beginning, you know, you, you, you escape that focus.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:43Trevor Noah?

  You look at Argentina and Qatar.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:44Trevor Noah?

  Uh, you look at Spain in, in twenty ten, you look, you look at any tournament, even France when they won it. Like, you just, you look shaky, no one's watching you, everyone's thrashing everyone on the other side. And then you sort of sneak through to the knockouts. And then you win a game here, you win a game there, and you win another game, next thing you know, you've won the finals.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  I'll agree with you because I think one of the truths about any tournament is the team that wins the tournament has to pick at the right time.

• 11:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you do.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  So you can't pick early.

• 11:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you completely wanna pick them.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Thing you're saying, you pick too early and then there's a target on your back, but everyone is watching out. So you have to almost like pace yourself, so to speak. But I think for the U S, as the hosts and coming in with the problems they had, like, cause there was so much external noise surrounding the team.

• 11:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Fans are not invested, there's the political ramifications, there's all this drama. That like shut all that down.

• 11:34Trevor Noah?

  Let me tell you something, the fans were invested. SoFi Stadium was electric.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  No, no, but I mean like.

• 11:40Trevor Noah?

  From the national anthem, like, you know, that's when you know, that's when you know your team's having a good day. From the national anthem, people were like, this might be the best national anthem I've ever heard in my life.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, yes.

• 11:50Trevor Noah?

  And then the team came out and they were like, this could be the best US performance, this could be the best goal, this could be the best, and then Travella to top it off.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Mm, mm, mm.

• 11:56Trevor Noah?

  There's, there's a few better ways.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Ah, come on. That was best, because Americans also love a great ending.

• 12:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  So if you're winning three nil, but you're up three. By the sixtieth minute.

• 12:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the last minutes, that was a dramatic way to send everyone home. But I'm saying, the reason I say fans are invested now, there are people who didn't care about football.

• 12:15Trevor Noah?

  That's true.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Hardcore fans were already there.

• 12:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  But there are people who didn't care, but we've been in America long enough to know that Americans only care about winners.

• 12:23Trevor Noah?

  Hey, man.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  They don't care what you do. They don't care. That's why he here talks about like, you know, when you hear Americans going like, oh, this is a comeback, we have a comeback story. Well, it doesn't matter what you do. If you can come back, if you can win, America is a country that's built on second acts.

• 12:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, Rocky.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yes. So long as you come back and win. And so for me, there are people who are not engaged with the game, but when they saw America beating another country.

• 12:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  By four goals, they're like, yeah, we're in, we're dominating. That's what America loves.

• 12:52Trevor Noah?

  The only thing I think people love more than a comeback story is mocking the favorite when they don't, when they don't perform. Like, if you look at some of the countries who were meant to win, uh, one that springs to mind, Turkey, playing against Australia.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:08Trevor Noah?

  There, Balogun, one of their players, he gave a, he gave an interview before the game where they're asking him, how do you think it's gonna? He was like, we're gonna dominate them. He was like, we sounded a little bit like Wemba Yama. He was like, ah, man, we're gonna dominate them, you know, we're gonna, this is what we do, we got this game. Did you see there was a clip of Adaguller, one of the attacking players?

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Real Madrid player.

• 13:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, from, um, Turkey, in the, in the, um, what do you call it, in the tunnel.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 13:32Trevor Noah?

  Right before they come out onto the pitch. And it's just him talking to his, um.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Teammates.

• 13:36Trevor Noah?

  To his teammates. And he shouts out, he shouts out, he's like, guys, we're way better than them. Let's prove it on the field. And then you cut to ninety minutes later and they're losing two nil, not even two one, by the way, two nil to the Socceroos. Which, can I just add, like, if you call your team the Socceroos, I feel like you've trolled everyone you play against. Because it seems like you don't take it seriously.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  It's actually so funny that we never mock the Australians for that, because we mock Americans for calling it soccer. And even Australia, even America went like, no, we'll not call our team the soccer rose.

• 14:08Trevor Noah?

  The socaroes is.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:09Trevor Noah?

  Imagine that, who beat you? The socaroes?

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:12Trevor Noah?

  The socaroes did this to you. Don't forget about it, mate. The socaroes did this to you.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  It sounds like a made up. Yes, it sounds like if, if an American was writing a script.

• 14:20Trevor Noah?

  It really does.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  For soccer, for soccer like movie or soccer series and they go like, oh, our team is soccer rose. I think it, I think it was a terrible devastating result for Turkey. Or Turkey as we call it these days. Cause I think they are a very passionate people when it comes to soccer. If you've watched like European games and you've seen like the fans of Garatasaray, Fenerbahce or Sixters. They are very, like, basketball is big in Turkey, but football by far is like the national religion. Yes, and for you to lose to a country where football is not even anywhere near the top four sports. Cause remember in Australia, it's cricket, it's rugby, it's Australian rules football.

• 14:59Trevor Noah?

  Then soccer.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  And then soccer. And for you to lose to that team, I think.

• 15:03Trevor Noah?

  Maybe even swimming comes before it's.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I think it was a crushing, crushing. I don't think anyone in Turkey or anyone back in Istanbul expected that result. I didn't, I certainly didn't expect it.

• 15:13Trevor Noah?

  You didn't expect that at all?

• 15:14Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't expect Australia to even compete.

• 15:16Trevor Noah?

  I, I don't know why people say that. May, okay, maybe I have a different perspective on Australia. When I've watched them play their games in previous World Cups or when I've watched them in major tournaments.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 15:26Trevor Noah?

  The Australians seem to work hard, they work together and they've never seemed like a walkover. So I don't understand why people were shocked.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  So they're a very Australian team, because Australians by nature, these people built a country out of a penal colony. Like they work hard, but I'm saying Turkey has, Turkey has some of the brightest talents in world football right now.

• 15:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but okay, you know what, you know what I've noticed has changed in world football though?

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:48Trevor Noah?

  Uh, and I mean, you, you, you, maybe you'll disagree with me on this because you know the game better than I do. But like, I feel like the low block has changed football forever. So I feel like, you know, back in the day, a team and its likelihood of success, in my opinion, was determined by each player and their matchup in that position.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Okay, yes.

• 16:10Trevor Noah?

  Okay?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  One on one.

• 16:11Trevor Noah?

  So it was like one on one. You've got a very strong winger, you're gonna beat my left back or right back. You've got a very strong striker, they're gonna beat my centre back. You've got a very strong midfielder, they'll beat mine, et cetera, et cetera. And then with the changing in how the game has been played over the past few years, let's say over the past like five-ish years. Now, I find a lot of teams are more willing to bring the whole team back

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm hmm.

• 16:34Trevor Noah?

  To play the game and press and defend. Sort of what people were complaining that like Kylian Mbappe doesn't do at Real Madrid.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 16:41Trevor Noah?

  Right? People were saying that Salah was forced to do this season for Liverpool, didn't do it before, but that's what hurt the team. But it's like, there are teams who've gone, oh yeah, we might not be as good as you, man for man.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm hmm hmm.

• 16:52Trevor Noah?

  But two men for man changes the equation.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 16:56Trevor Noah?

  And if you watch the Australia-Turkey game, there were swaths of the game where Australia had eight men in the box in a straight line.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm hmm hmm.

• 17:06Trevor Noah?

  Eight men, and then it was like, you know, another two men just in front of them, and that was it. That was their formation in a way.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 17:13Trevor Noah?

  And all they were waiting for was the break. Japan, I could argue, was similar in some ways.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 17:18Trevor Noah?

  They brought everybody back.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 17:19Trevor Noah?

  When Cody Gakpo from the Netherlands was trying to cut in.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:23Trevor Noah?

  They just had their two men on him the entire time. So it doesn't become like a one-on-one moment. It becomes a can you break through everyone moment.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm hmm hmm.

• 17:32Trevor Noah?

  You know, Morocco, I'd even argue, did that against Brazil. You know, they frustrated Brazil.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 17:37Trevor Noah?

  The one moment Vinicius got a chance to be one-on-one, he scored a goal.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  He did score, yes.

• 17:41Trevor Noah?

  The rest of the game, we didn't hear from him.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  It's a very interesting, it's very interesting to talk about the low block because it's supposed to do exactly that. It's supposed to make the team better than the sum of its parts.

• 17:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, right.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  So, again, as you're saying, if Turkey has Ada Gulea, who plays for Madrid, and if Turkey has Kenan Yildiz, who plays for Juventus.

• 18:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  And the soccer rules have no one playing in any of the top leagues.

• 18:06Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Then their only option is to work as a team. And that's the funny thing about football. So football used to be a team game that had individual battles. The thing you said about.

• 18:16Trevor Noah?

  Okay, soccer used to be a team game that had individual battles, yeah.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  So it was a team game, but then there were people like going one-on-one.

• 18:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  So which made it more like a tennis or boxing.

• 18:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  But now, coaches are realizing, oh, this is the way for us to notify a player like Messi. We can't leave him one-on-one, because he's going to beat his man every time.

• 18:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  For us to notify a player like Lameen Yamal, we can't leave him one-on-one. What do you have to do? You have to double. And I think they're taking that, fun enough, from games like basketball.

• 18:44Trevor Noah?

  They have. I think soccer has taken a lot from basketball over the years. Like, we've seen the pick and roll come into the game.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 18:50Trevor Noah?

  We've seen screens come into the game. I mean, Arsenal dominated the whole season, basically playing set pieces like it was basketball. You've seen that switch come over, where now, teams have also realized that fitness isn't a talent.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:03Trevor Noah?

  You know, you might pay a lot of money for a talented player, but fitness is something that everyone can just work on. And so, if you have a fitter team than the other team, you just make them run, you make them recycle the ball, you get behind the ball. It's a frustrating... That Brazil versus Morocco game, you could tell that Brazil, A, was struggling with the fact that this is not their best team, but B, they were frustrated by the fact that they just weren't getting chances to play. And, and by the way, we have to talk about, um, the Moroccan midfielder.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Oh, are you Bouadi?

• 19:37Trevor Noah?

  Man.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:38Trevor Noah?

  Yo.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Everyone, but...

• 19:40Trevor Noah?

  Yo.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  He's eighteen.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  And that Moroccan team is very young, but I'm saying, I love coaches who can trust a player at that age against Brazil, because also you need the coach's faith.

• 19:54Trevor Noah?

  And not just against Brazil. Look, look who he's playing in that midfield. He was playing against Casemiro.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Lucas Paketa.

• 19:59Trevor Noah?

  Lucas Paketa and Bruno Guimaraes, and then switched out to Fabinho.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  At half-time.

• 20:04Trevor Noah?

  At half-time, they switched out to, and he still...

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Dominated them.

• 20:08Trevor Noah?

  Bossed the game. An eighteen-year-old.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  It was impressive.

• 20:12Trevor Noah?

  Who thirty days before was the captain for the French.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  No, that's, yeah, that's, I, I, I think, I think it speaks to Morocco's ascent or rise in world football, that they can actually now lure talents away from bigger countries.

• 20:27Trevor Noah?

  Because in... I, I disagree.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 20:29Trevor Noah?

  I disagree.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Why? Give me your reason, because I think, I think...

• 20:32Trevor Noah?

  No, I disagree.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  I think African teams have struggled before.

• 20:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I, but I disagree. I don't think it's the standing. I think the quality of football has risen so much all over the world. That now there's a saturation in teams. So if you look at, let's just look at leagues, right, leagues, like the Premier League is better than it's ever been.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:52Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:53Trevor Noah?

  Um, the Spanish league has continuously pumped out some of the most talented players.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:58Trevor Noah?

  Right, and then you look at like the German league.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:00Trevor Noah?

  Yo, they're like, slowly come, like you look at Leverkusen who wasn't like a name a few years ago in that way.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:06Trevor Noah?

  But now are challenging for titles and winning titles.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:09Trevor Noah?

  You still have Dortmund, you still have Bayern, you know, um, you go to like the Dutch league where the teams, Portuguese, all, all the teams. When Borro Glimt is now in the Champions League.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, in the knockout.

• 21:19Trevor Noah?

  Actually playing.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:20Trevor Noah?

  Hmm. I think it changes how many players there are. Now, when that happens, I think you find yourself in a situation where national teams are so saturated that as a player. You now risk being number four in a pecking order.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:36Trevor Noah?

  So if you look at, um, Ayoubouadi.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, he's phenomenal, but what did we say? He was the captain of the youth French team.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 21:44Trevor Noah?

  A month ago.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:45Trevor Noah?

  Right? If he wants to get into the French squad and take a starting position, he has to come in ahead of Adrien Rabiot. Or he has to take Zaire, um, Emery's position and Emery himself comes off the bench.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:58Trevor Noah?

  Or he has to take, who else is in that midfield?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Chouameni's.

• 22:00Trevor Noah?

  Chouameni's position. He has to take.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Kamavinga didn't even get on the plane.

• 22:05Trevor Noah?

  Think about that now. So now I think what's actually happened is players have gone. I'm not gonna risk my whole career, my international career, sitting out, hoping to play for a big team or a big country.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Big country.

• 22:19Trevor Noah?

  When I can go and play for.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:22Trevor Noah?

  Another country that I'm eligible for.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  But the thing is, where, where, where I say, why I talk about the ascent is in the past, say a player like Zidane.

• 22:29Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  A player like Zidane couldn't play for Algeria because Algeria wouldn't make it to the World Cup.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  If that makes sense. So now players go like, oh, I can go for Morocco because Morocco is good enough to get me to the World Cup.

• 22:42Trevor Noah?

  So it's a little bit of chicken and the egg though, no?

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, if Morocco couldn't make it to the World Cup.

• 22:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Brahim Diaz would never have declared for them. He would have gone like, I wait and wait for Spain, for Spain to get there. So I feel like because they know, also it's not just getting there. Cause Morocco is not Kourasao, Morocco is not Uzbekistan, Morocco is not Haiti.

• 23:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  They're going like, oh, we're going with a team that's going to compete actually.

• 23:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but no, but Joe, this is why I disagree with you. I feel like it's it's chicken and the egg here. The reason they competed is because those players are there.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:12Trevor Noah?

  So the reason Morocco did so well is partly because.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Hakimi.

• 23:15Trevor Noah?

  Because Hakimi is there. The reason they, so it's like, if they're not there, the team doesn't do well.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:21Trevor Noah?

  So they have to make the decision to go and help the team do well. I argue it's because they're looking at their prospects. Okay, cause if Hakimi didn't play.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Would have played for Spain.

• 23:29Trevor Noah?

  You think he would have got in?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  He would have played for Spain. I think, I don't thi- I don't think he would have played as quickly as he did.

• 23:34Trevor Noah?

  But you see, that's the point.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Cause Cabahar would have kept him out.

• 23:36Trevor Noah?

  But that's the point.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  But still, I think he was good enough.

• 23:39Trevor Noah?

  But that's the point. And you know, when you are a player who isn't necessarily seen as of the country, it's also risky.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yeah.

• 23:47Trevor Noah?

  Cause at some point they might say, oh, but where's the Spanish right back?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yes, it is, it is.

• 23:51Trevor Noah?

  There's always an option for that.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  It is, yes.

• 23:53Trevor Noah?

  Right?

• 23:53Speaker 01

  It is. But I'm thinking the fact that they can convince players now, again, as you say, when you're the captain of the under eighteen team of France.

• 24:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  You're on the fast track basically to get into the French team. Adrien Rabiot is not going to play at the next World Cup.

• 24:07Trevor Noah?

  That's true.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  He's playing now. Many of the players who are blocking Ayoub Bouadi are not going to be blocking him two years from now at the Euros. Same thing happened with Lamine. Lamine could have declared for Morocco, but he went like, I'm going to declare for Spain. But if Mo- Morocco tried to convince him, but sometimes it's almost like signing a player for a club. You have to convince them of the project.

• 24:28Trevor Noah?

  That's true. That's what the, that's what the US did with Balagon.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  So if Morocco comes to Ayoub Bouadi and they go like, hey, we not only want you to play for our team, but we're going to be hosting the World Cup.

• 24:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Four years from now. And this is what we have in, you know, and we've reached the semifinals.

• 24:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  It's, it's more, that's what the European teams used to do. They would just go like, no, you come to us, you're going to go to the World Cup. You're guaranteed to go to the World Cup. If John Barnes, who was our guest. If Jamaica was good enough back then, as he told you, he played for England when he had the Jamaican passport. But Jamaica was never, and if you read John Byrne's story, he wasn't even going to play for England. He was just waiting for any team from the United Kingdom. If Scotland had come to him, he would have played for them. Yeah, because he wanted to go to the World Cup and Jamaica was never going to go to the World Cup, yeah.

• 25:14Trevor Noah?

  But it's an interesting thought. It has become the World Cup of switched allegiances.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:20Trevor Noah?

  Because everyone, if we go down the running order, like the opening game, opening goal for Mexico.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Quinones.

• 25:26Trevor Noah?

  Scored by Quinones and he is.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  He's from Colombia.

• 25:31Trevor Noah?

  Colombia.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  He should be playing for Colombia, but he declared for.

• 25:34Trevor Noah?

  He declared for Mexico, has lived there since he was like seventeen, his family's there, his kids are there. He's like, yo, Mexico's my home.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:39Trevor Noah?

  And so here he is as this player, um, the US, obviously, Balogun.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 25:44Trevor Noah?

  Born in the US, his story is amazing because like he was born here and if you can believe everything that it's basically, he was just born here because his mom wasn't allowed to fly out.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Yes, of course, again, because America has birthright.

• 25:56Trevor Noah?

  Birthright citizenship, yeah.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Born on the soil, yes.

• 25:58Trevor Noah?

  So he was just born here and then that was it. I don't even think he like lived his life here. But here he is carrying America's dreams now in attack. Um, you have, I'm trying to think of who else has done this.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Australia had a bunch of players.

• 26:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, no, Australia, definitely, right? You had, um, guys who came into Australia when they were teenagers. You know, went to university now. I mean, like they're, they're, they're, they're running the attack. You had, who else have we got? We got Morocco's team was interesting because they made history. As I guess the first national team at a World Cup where none of the players were born in the country that they're representing.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Yes, but that's what, that's, that's the thing I'm saying about Morocco's project because they specifically went out to try and bring this talent back home.

• 26:40Trevor Noah?

  Do you, you know, I was wondering this though, do you think it undermines the whole point of a World Cup? If a player can just switch allegiances to another country at any point? Or is it, because there's two ways to think of it, right? On the one hand, you can say the whole point of a World Cup is that it's not a competition about which team could get the best players.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 27:02Trevor Noah?

  It's an exhibition of which teams or which national teams were made up of the players they happened to have.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 27:10Trevor Noah?

  Another argument is, no.

• 27:13Trevor Noah?

  The World Cup is just an exhibition of the team that a country could put together. And so whether or not a player is from that country shouldn't really matter. How do you, what do you, which way do you lean?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  The way I look at it is, so you said a player can switch, but FIFA is very strict.

• 27:29Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Once you play in a competitive game for a country, it's done.

• 27:34Trevor Noah?

  Are you sure?

• 27:35Speaker 01

  It's done.

• 27:35Trevor Noah?

  What, oh no, what happened with the?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  If you play friendlies.

• 27:38Trevor Noah?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait. What happened with, um, I feel like he was your boy, man. He played at Barcelona. Laporte, wasn't he, wasn't he on the French team and then Spanish?

• 27:48Speaker 01

  He never played a competitive game. He played in a bunch of friendlies, so you're allowed to be called up.

• 27:52Trevor Noah?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Actually, some countries have been accused of calling up players and then capturing them. So they call you up for a competitive game. Then they know you can never.

• 28:01Trevor Noah?

  You're lying.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Yes, when, when they see a good enough player, because they know, because now you have, so you can.

• 28:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I see, but that's messed up then.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  So you can play in the under, most, actually the French, and I think Americans are also complaining about it because they have so many, so the French have so many. Players who are born in France.

• 28:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Who come through the youth system.

• 28:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  But then when it's time to declare, they go play for Ivory Coast or Senegal. And in French, they're like, oh, so we're just developing players for other countries. Same thing with America.

• 28:30Trevor Noah?

  Hey, my friend, my friend, which they should be.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:33Trevor Noah?

  If the French, yo, the French are gonna say we're developing.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  We're pumping money, yes.

• 28:37Trevor Noah?

  What a nice change, France.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  France complain.

• 28:39Trevor Noah?

  Now you, now you're developing Africa. What a nice change.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Americans complain about the same thing because, uh, the, not the best player, but one of the key players for Mexico now is Bran Guiterres.

• 28:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Who helped get the red card. He plays in the hall, but he played for America. He played for the US through the under edge system. Then when it came time for the senior team, he went like, yeah, I want to play for my dad's country and he crossed over to Mexico. So FIFA, FIFA is very strict.

• 29:04Trevor Noah?

  I think, I think FIFA should even change it. I think you should just be able to play for any country where you have held a citizenship.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  No, but, but that, that, that's very easy to get around because you know what happens? The country, the country just expedites the papers. That's what they do.

• 29:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I mean, if the country wants to do that, they should do that.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  No, the countries always do that.

• 29:22Trevor Noah?

  I, I don't, I don't think, I don't.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying is happening now. So if Esmea, kid from Bosnia, who grew up by the way in America, he grew up in America, played for. Then he went and go, I want to play for, he could have made the American team actually. He's that talented. They call him the Bosnian La Miniamal. He's very talented.

• 29:37Trevor Noah?

  Damn, that's a strong compliment. That's what they call him.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  He's really, really good.

• 29:40Trevor Noah?

  That's a strong compliment.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Remember when you're kid of immigrants, your dad is pumping, it's almost like your dad is pumping you with propaganda about the old country. He's like brainwashing you from when you were this little. And also mostly, normally, if you're a kid of immigrants.

• 29:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Your dad and his entire extended family are still there.

• 29:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they're still home, they're still back home, yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  If you play for the US, if you're a Mexican kid, or if you're a kid of Mexican immigrants, and you play for the US, it doesn't give your dad the same.

• 30:09Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  The same, like, you know, the same bragging rights.

• 30:11Trevor Noah?

  No, it doesn't, come on.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  As it would if you go back, so.

• 30:14Trevor Noah?

  It doesn't, nor should it.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, many people, many kids, and I think that it's a great, yeah, it's a great. You would want your kid to play, if I had a kid in America, I would want him to play for Uganda.

• 30:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Because Americans don't care, but my friends back in Uganda would go like, oh, like, I would walk in, and they would greet me like. Like, Lamín's dad doesn't get the same clout in Spain.

• 30:37Trevor Noah?

  I think, I think.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  That you would get it back home, if you think about it.

• 30:40Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Spain versus back home.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:43Trevor Noah?

  But he's, he's a weird one, he's a bit of a, he's a bit of a celebrity, though.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  No, no, he is.

• 30:46Trevor Noah?

  He's an outlier for that argument, I think.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Yes, but I'm saying, you imagine if your kid was holding Morocco on his back, on his, on his back, if he was leading Morocco.

• 30:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, that's true.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  You go back home and you, he would, he would, okay, here's how I would put it, if Lamín's dad, if Lamín was playing for Morocco, Lamín's dad would have the number of the Moroccan king on speed dial. He doesn't have the number of the Spanish king, if that makes sense. If your kid is that good in your home country, you're, because they see you as.

• 31:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, they do.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  That's, that's, that's, that's the thing that drove Messi, because Messi, Spain really reached out. He spent all his time in La Masia from thirteen, they really reached out, and they gave him a proposal, they were like, hey, you'll still be playing with Xavi, you'll still be playing with, and Messi went like, no.

• 31:33Trevor Noah?

  Argentina, though.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Yes, because.

• 31:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but he, but he had a legacy that he could look forward to upholding. I'm more, I'm more impressed by the people who make that decision, the Messi decision, for the non legacy. So, I'm more impressed by a player

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:48Trevor Noah?

  who chooses to play for Morocco, who chooses to play for Curacao, who chooses to play for Haiti, who chooses to play for, I'm more impressed by those players because they don't have a legacy to look back to.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  You're meaning legacy by the countries, not.

• 32:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because Messi, Messi can see a future where Argentina wins a World Cup with him. Does that make sense?

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Counterpoint.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  When Messi chooses Argentina over Spain, and then he has to watch Spain win the twenty ten World

• 32:12Trevor Noah?

  I hear you, but, but, let's, even when they were at their worst,

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:18Trevor Noah?

  if we asked the average soccer fan in the world, the average football fan, do you think Argentina can win the World Cup? What would their answer be?

• 32:25Speaker 01

  They would say yes.

• 32:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but then, no, no, no. So that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you, I'm not saying they were, they wouldn't go through a bad patch.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:30Trevor Noah?

  But when you know something can be possible.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:33Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I'm saying?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Okay, but then the counterpoint is Messi retired before Argentina won the World. He was so frustrated with Argentina.

• 32:40Trevor Noah?

  But now he's made the decision, he's locked in.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Yes, no, no.

• 32:42Trevor Noah?

  Maybe he regrets it at that point, but he's locked in.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  But I'm saying he retired, he had to unretire. But now you imagine you're Messi, you had the chance to play for Spain. You turned it down, you go back to Barcelona and you're watching Xavi win the Euros, the World Cup and the Euros again. And in that period, you haven't won anything with Argentina.

• 32:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that must have been, that must have been.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Yes, you've lost three Copa Americas, you've lost at the World Cup, you, you, part of you is going like, if I had only made the right decision. But the thing is, he persisted and it eventually, and he says it, he says, the World Cup I won with Argentina means everything to me. If I had won it with Spain,

• 33:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  it would not have meant the same.

• 33:26Trevor Noah?

  All right, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor for today's episode, that's Verizon. Now, we all know the FIFA World Cup is one of the biggest events on the planet, right? Everybody wants in, which means scoring tickets is hard, like really, really hard. Well, there's good news. Verizon is providing their customers with unmatched access. They've given away thousands of free tickets and even given their customers pitch side access during matches. If you're not a Verizon customer, I've got good news. Right now, more people than ever can get a better deal at Verizon.

• 34:07Trevor Noah?

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• 34:28Trevor Noah?

  Must provide a very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon.

• 34:44Trevor Noah?

  So going back to the games, who do we think should be worried right now? And why? Like, let's start with Brazil. From like all my Brazil friends, all my Brazilian friends are not like, they're not comfortable. They're the, in fact, I would argue they're the least comfortable I've ever seen them at a World Cup.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yes, but that's because Brazil always has a high bar.

• 35:05Trevor Noah?

  No, no, Joe, Joe, wait, Joe, wait, wait. But Joe, Brazil always has a high bar.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:11Trevor Noah?

  You know what Brazil also always has?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Great players.

• 35:14Trevor Noah?

  A world-class squad, not just great players. Now they have great players, but they've got a weird roster of great players. Their team looks like a mix of the legends and the, and the youth. You've got a team with Endric and Casemiro. You know what I mean? You've got a team with Fabinho and Rafinha. You've got a team with, like, I genuinely, when I watch the team, I can't tell what the team is going to be like, because it doesn't make sense to me holistically.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  It's a weird mix, yes.

• 35:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, like I go, I don't see how Casemiro can play with the other kids on the team. I don't, I don't see how, like, it's a strange one.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  You did say you wouldn't know as a coach what style to adopt.

• 35:51Trevor Noah?

  I wouldn't know. If I was setting the tactics for that team, I go, do we run fast?

• 35:55Speaker 01

  You can't because Casemiro doesn't have the legs.

• 35:57Trevor Noah?

  Do we play physical and fight for everything? Do we play slow? Do we, but, but like, Igo Tiago, I still say, I said to you in the first episode of the podcast, and I'm going to say it to you now after the first game, why is Joao Pedro not here? And I know people are going to keep telling me stories.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  No, I'll tell, my, my suspicion is, my suspicion is, Kalan Kyos had to choose, because also you're picking profiles, right? And you don't want competing profiles. You want a player, you want players who give you different things, because at some point you might need different things. So I think Kalan Kyos looked at Joao Pedro, and he said, Joao Pedro gives me almost the same thing that Matheus Konya gives me. Now I have to pick. I have to pick.

• 36:36Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  I can see that, okay.

• 36:37Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, you know what, I can concede that.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  So it's that thing like.

• 36:40Trevor Noah?

  I hear what you mean.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:41Trevor Noah?

  I hear what you mean.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Should I have two players who give me the same thing?

• 36:44Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Or should I have?

• 36:45Trevor Noah?

  Both good at holding up the ball, both dribblers, both with flair, both with channels. No, no, I can see that. I just think João Pedro is a little more attack minded.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:53Trevor Noah?

  In that way, I not, like, if I was playing Cunha, I'm playing him slightly behind a striker. If I'm playing João Pedro, I can play him as a striker, but it's gonna be a.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  But then the thing is, if you had to choose between, let's say, Cunha and Igostia, go, they give you different things.

• 37:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  The reason I'm saying Brazil should be worried is the same reason I would say if Barcelona lost a game and they didn't, they didn't dominate it because of the high standards. So Brazil doesn't just have to win, they have to win playing well.

• 37:24Trevor Noah?

  That's true, they can't, they can't play terrible football.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Many other teams go, Germans, Germans will go like, so long as we win. The English will go like, so long as we win. The Dutch and Brazilians.

• 37:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they gotta play beautiful football.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  They go like, we don't care if you're winning. If you're not winning pretty, we're not happy.

• 37:41Trevor Noah?

  Speaking of the English, I feel like you and Mother Nature don't like the English.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  I look.

• 37:46Trevor Noah?

  Yo, can we, can we just talk, let's, let's just break this down, let's just break this down.

• 37:51Trevor Noah?

  The England team, in the space of four days, had their kit stolen.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:58Trevor Noah?

  Right, their training kit, all stolen. I think the police eventually recovered most of it or all of it.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  I think the, I think the Clan Royce's shirt was left behind. No one, even the thieves are like, we're not putting this on, no.

• 38:10Trevor Noah?

  The England, England team had their, their kit stolen.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 38:13Trevor Noah?

  Um, there was like a shooting near the, near the grounds, like, you know, which just became part of the news.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 38:19Trevor Noah?

  Then, there was a tornado warning that was issued, and so the players had to stay indoors, and it was like a violent storm in Kansas.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 38:27Trevor Noah?

  You know, people were like, this is, this is basically the beginning of the Wizard of Oz.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 38:30Trevor Noah?

  That's, that's, that's what it sounded like. And then on top of that, there's one other thing that went badly for them. What, I'm missing something? There was the kit, it's the tornado watch.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Was it, was it the bus, something with the bus?

• 38:43Trevor Noah?

  There's something else that happened. England though is just.

• 38:47Trevor Noah?

  This, this is either the, like a, like a, like foreshadowing.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 38:50Trevor Noah?

  Or it's, it's the trials that come before the tribulation.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Look, I think England have the toughest goal.

• 38:57Trevor Noah?

  England have the toughest group?

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I believe.

• 38:59Trevor Noah?

  Who do they have in the group?

• 38:59Speaker 01

  They're playing Ghana.

• 39:00Trevor Noah?

  Ghana.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  They're playing Croatia.

• 39:02Trevor Noah?

  Croatia.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  And they're playing Panama. But they're playing Panama last. So if they lose their first opening games, they're out almost. Cause you would want to start with Panama, maybe get three points on the board.

• 39:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Then you can relax.

• 39:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, get confident.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  But their first two games are so tough. Maybe not tough, they're so tricky. Anything could happen.

• 39:21Trevor Noah?

  Anything could happen.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  If Ghana turns up, and if Croatia turns up, Croatia's had England's number for some time.

• 39:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  So for me, I think, look, when you think, for me, when you tell me they've had all these disasters, part of me just goes like, well, these are the chickens coming home to roast because of colonialism. When you talk about, when you talk about their kids being stolen, I'm like, no, that's reparations being taken back. But look, the, it's, it's, it's almost hard to, because of what they did, I'm like, hey, you know, this, yeah, this is the English getting their karma pains.

• 39:57Trevor Noah?

  I, I think this is just the English getting a, a moment of, of testing before, before they receive their reward. Mark my words. You remember these conversations?

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:05Trevor Noah?

  The English are gonna do way better than you think.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  I think the, I think the.

• 40:08Trevor Noah?

  The English are gonna do way better than you think.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  I think they're always make a deep run. I think.

• 40:11Trevor Noah?

  Way.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  But, but I think.

• 40:13Trevor Noah?

  Way, way, way better than you think.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  I think it's always going to end in a spectacular collapse.

• 40:16Trevor Noah?

  Oh, I had, I, I wrote down a few things I wanted to make sure we get to. Um, who do you think's got the best player story so far at the World Cup?

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Without a doubt, Raoul Jimenez, for me.

• 40:26Trevor Noah?

  Not Ayubuadi?

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Not Ayubuadi, not, not at all. Raoul Jimenez shouldn't be playing football.

• 40:32Trevor Noah?

  What do you mean?

• 40:33Speaker 01

  He shouldn't be playing football. Remember he got a fracture with his, when he had the collision with the keeper?

• 40:38Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yes.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  And then he fractured his head, eight months out. They had to do like things with, he wore a.

• 40:44Trevor Noah?

  He was still wearing it?

• 40:45Speaker 01

  A scalp cap, yeah.

• 40:45Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, he wore the scalp cap.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  For the longest time. He shouldn't be playing football. He was not supposed to be playing football. And then he scored his first goal for the World Cup. He was crying.

• 40:52Trevor Noah?

  He was crying.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  He was in tears. So for me, that's. The most heartwarming story because it shows you the redemptive power of sports.

• 40:59Trevor Noah?

  It really does.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:00Trevor Noah?

  Uh, best goalkeeper moment for me, I'm gonna pick um Japan's goalkeeper Suzuki.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:10Trevor Noah?

  I know they conceded two goals.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:11Trevor Noah?

  Against the Dutch.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  The unstoppable.

• 41:13Trevor Noah?

  But I think he was phenomenal.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  The unstoppable. You can't blame him for either. By the way, he had a tough time. He's also like another, not as big as Raul Jimenez, but his story is redemptive because he had a tough, tough Asian Cup. When he first, his debut in a big tournament.

• 41:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  He was criticized.

• 41:27Trevor Noah?

  Oh, really?

• 41:28Speaker 01

  He had a tough time and everyone was going like, oh, he shouldn't be playing for Japan and all this. And, you know, he, he, and then he, he had a wrist injury at some point.

• 41:37Trevor Noah?

  Oh, damn.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  And then he has bounced back. But it shows the tough for me, it was a baptism of fire when he first started in this big tournament for Japan.

• 41:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Many other keepers could have been broken because the whole, it's a different thing when you're playing for a club because then it's just your club fans on top of you.

• 41:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  But when the entire country is questioning your inclusion in the team and you're a black player in Japan.

• 41:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  And you still have the character to come back from that and play the way you played. I think, yeah, I think that's a beautiful story.

• 42:06Trevor Noah?

  It was phenomenal.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 42:07Trevor Noah?

  Best celebration, I mean, for me, easily, Quinones from Mexico.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 42:12Trevor Noah?

  To, to do.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  That was, yeah.

• 42:13Trevor Noah?

  The South African celebration from twenty ten when they scored against Mexico. He wasn't even there, but not just to do it, to do it perfectly.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  But now let me ask, do you think, was he trolling or was he celebrating? C P W Shabara.

• 42:28Trevor Noah?

  No, I think he's trolling. Obviously, he's trolling.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  You don't think he's celebrating because that was an iconic, it was an iconic, iconic celebration.

• 42:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but, but he's doing it against the same team that scored against them.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  And he also scored the opening goal.

• 42:39Trevor Noah?

  And I think.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:40Trevor Noah?

  And I think it's because they, they, they, they think of the stories and the videos and everyone kept on playing that over and over again. And it was this idea that's haunting Mexico. Oh, here comes South Africa again. And remember the goal they scored against you and it was this whole thing. But what I was impressed by was the fact that for him to practice the dance means he.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  You need to know that you're going to score. Yes.

• 42:59Trevor Noah?

  He believed.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Hmm. But he's black. I'll give it to him. I would call it, you know what? I'll say he remixed. I'll say he remixed. If it was, yes.

• 43:08Trevor Noah?

  He just knew it.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:09Trevor Noah?

  It was in his bones.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  He has the rhythm.

• 43:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, that's funny, man.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  The thing you just said, he did it perfectly.

• 43:14Trevor Noah?

  That's hilarious.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  And it's so funny because no other Mexican player joined in. Like, because they didn't have the moves.

• 43:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  No, he's black. I'll give it to him. Come on.

• 43:21Trevor Noah?

  No, man, he did it. I I know this is a, I know this is a World Cup podcast, but I feel like part of the World Cup, like a a storyline that's been adopted into the World Cup, just because of where we are, has been the New York Knicks.

• 43:35Trevor Noah?

  It it let it was. I know this sounds weird, but it felt like one of the World Cup games.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:39Trevor Noah?

  It's like it it just felt like it part of the euphoria because you had um New York City packed, packed, packed, packed with Moroccan fans, packed with Brazilian fans, and packed with New York Knicks fans.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  The funny thing about that is Brazil played Morocco.

• 43:54Trevor Noah?

  All three believing that they were gonna win.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  And all of them very passionate.

• 43:57Trevor Noah?

  Truly.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  And all of them dominating every space.

• 44:00Trevor Noah?

  Truly.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  They come into. The funny thing about that is,

• 44:04Speaker 01

  I don't come from a basketball country.

• 44:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  But the thing is, when you're in New York and New York is winning, it's very infectious.

• 44:09Trevor Noah?

  It's crazy, man. It's beautiful.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  The energy in New York is, as you said, people are friendlier, everyone's, it's just, it just feels.

• 44:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  And so when Brazil was playing Morocco, which is supposed to be a huge, big game, it felt like a curtain raiser for the Knicks game later that night.

• 44:26Trevor Noah?

  It actually did.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:27Trevor Noah?

  It literally did feel like that. Yeah. And and I think in many ways, it also felt like a curtain raiser for um the specter of of of like triumph in the face of everyone saying it was impossible.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 44:41Trevor Noah?

  I know Morocco didn't win.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:42Trevor Noah?

  But.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  The way they played, they played Brazil off the park. Yes.

• 44:45Trevor Noah?

  I mean, they they they outplayed Brazil.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 44:47Trevor Noah?

  It didn't feel like, by the way, it was, I was, I was surprised that Vinicius got man of the match.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Yes, it should have been Ayoub.

• 44:54Trevor Noah?

  I was really surprised by that.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  I think also, I feel like when you score a goal. Normally that.

• 45:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they give you like a little rating boost, don't they?

• 45:02Speaker 01

  No, I feel like, I mean, I feel like Ayubu- Bu- Buadi will be appreciated by the purists.

• 45:07Trevor Noah?

  Okay, it's it's a lot harder to appreciate.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, like literally.

• 45:10Trevor Noah?

  Sixteen of sixteen passes completed in the attacking third, except, oh, you know, attacking half, the take ons.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Turned under pressure, purists love that stuff.

• 45:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  But when you're doing like a poll, when you're choosing the man of the match, normally it's a popular choice. You have to either have scored or assisted.

• 45:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Because people look at those stats, they don't look at the intangible balls that actually.

• 45:30Trevor Noah?

  So that's why, I guess Brunson, then he was always gonna win.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  If he scored, Odean N'obe, some people argue, had better impact. Or had more impact on the Knicks winning.

• 45:45Trevor Noah?

  I mean the.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Especially in game four.

• 45:46Trevor Noah?

  I don't know, I I'm not even gonna claim to know basketball like that.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:49Trevor Noah?

  But it felt like one of the most like balanced teams.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:53Trevor Noah?

  And what I mean by that is, it felt like you didn't, you didn't know how the house was gonna be built, but every player was bringing a certain amount of bricks.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yes, but but Odean N'obe, as you say.

• 46:02Trevor Noah?

  No, he was, he was faultless a lot of the time. He didn't miss his shots.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  But remember in game four, remember his play.

• 46:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I mean, come on.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Everyone remembers the put back.

• 46:09Trevor Noah?

  Yo.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  What people don't remember is that when the Aaron Fox got that turnover and rushed through and he was, he went for the layup. Who went with him?

• 46:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Who blocked him without actually fouling? It was Odean N'obe.

• 46:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but then again, like Hart has had some of the most amazing performances. He like, his, his steals, his blocks.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  But then he also blew the layup in that game.

• 46:32Trevor Noah?

  Man, but did you see his face?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:33Trevor Noah?

  You know, can I tell you something?

• 46:34Speaker 01

  He had a meltdown.

• 46:35Trevor Noah?

  One thing I.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  He saw his life flash before his eyes.

• 46:37Trevor Noah?

  One thing I, I appreciate in all sports is the feeling a player gets when they, when they. When it looks like they've thrown it all away.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:49Trevor Noah?

  Hart is one of the smartest.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:51Trevor Noah?

  Most diligent workers on a team.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:54Trevor Noah?

  When he missed that layup in game five, to take the lead for the, for the Knicks against the Spurs. You could see he was going, I've thrown it all away.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Do you know what I think has happened these days as well?

• 47:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  When a player does that. They see in their minds, because players are so online.

• 47:12Trevor Noah?

  You think they see memes?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  I'm going to become a meme now.

• 47:14Trevor Noah?

  They see the memes.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yes. It's like, this is it, this is going to do. Did you see Larry David's reaction, by the way?

• 47:19Trevor Noah?

  To what?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  When Hart blew the layup. It was like, straight out of cap.

• 47:24Trevor Noah?

  I didn't see it.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  He like, he almost collapsed. He almost, you should see it. It's so funny. He almost died. Like Larry David was this close. Like if you see, because he expects and then, and then you see him just like, people had to hold him up. That's how shocked he was. But I'm saying that every Nick contributed, even the players off the bench.

• 47:42Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, no, no, the next word.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  But for me, Anobi's influence on that game. Remember, Anobi actually is also the one who threw the inbound pass.

• 47:49Trevor Noah?

  He did.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  To Gary. And then he ran all the way.

• 47:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  The heart and the desire at that time in the game. It wasn't the beginning moments. This was towards the end of the game. You've been running back and forth. The heart and desire for you to run and get that put back and actually put it back in his. His, people were debating him and who is the finals MVP, because also Anobi really, I think he averaged around twenty-two points. Uh, Bronson averaged twenty-four, but remember Bronson takes double the shots.

• 48:15Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  That Anobi gets. But I think Bronson, when he scores forty-two in a decider, you can't look past him.

• 48:21Trevor Noah?

  Well, man, you know what I also can't look past? New York City itself. You know, people always say as a platitude, oh, New York, the greatest city in the world, New York greatest. I don't know many cities in the world where you could have a game five of a historic NBA championship. Also have a World Cup match between Brazil and Morocco. Have all of that happening at the same time as like a Puerto Rican Day Parade.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 48:46Trevor Noah?

  Have all of that happening, streets packed. People, you know, some people were just going out for dinner that night as well.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  New York is that, oh, respect.

• 48:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, some people in New York didn't even know all these other things were happening. The city is chaos. People are in the streets cheering, climbing on top of things. Some people are breaking things, you name it. And the next morning, the city's still there, like it never happened. I genuinely was like, yo, nothing. New York used to have, um, I don't know if you were ever around in New York, um, around Hurricane Sandy.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 49:17Trevor Noah?

  They, they, they had like the song that they, that they put on and was like, we are stronger than the storm. And they're like, we're stronger than the storm. And I remember watching that. I was like, no, guys, come on. What do you mean you're stronger than this? Yo, see New York? And I was like, okay, no, New York is, New York is im- like, it's impenetrable. It doesn't matter what it is.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  No, there were people complaining, because people complained going like, why would FIFA

• 49:40Speaker 01

  schedule their, their game? Because they're going to call the NBA playoff schedule, we knew. But why would FIFA, because they were going to create a logistical nightmare for the city hosting like all these. And New York, but just remember, New York is so resilient. New York is a city that it bounced back after nine eleven. Many other cities would never bounce back.

• 49:58Trevor Noah?

  New York, yo, New York, New York has shown, like, New York, now I'm excited for the final, because, because I want to see, I want to see what a New York final is gonna be. But we're still, we're still ways away from a final.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  You know what New Jersey people are saying?

• 50:09Trevor Noah?

  What are they saying?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  It's not happening in New York. I don't know why New York keeps claiming that's New York. It's in Jersey. The MetLife is in Jersey.

• 50:16Trevor Noah?

  I mean, where the game is played and where the fans are, two totally different things.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Fans are like, no, we don't want to spend our time.

• 50:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, New Jersey.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  They're like people from New Jersey.

• 50:24Trevor Noah?

  New Jersey can say what it wants, but it's like, like, what is it? New Jersey is the liminal space of this World Cup. I mean, like, you know what I mean? They can say what they want, but like, let's ask the fans. I'm willing to bet money. If you go to any fan who went to any of these games or is going to any of the games, ask them where they were. I'll give you ten dollars for every person who says they were in New Jersey.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  No, even people in New Jersey don't want to stay in New Jersey.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  I had a friend.

• 50:49Trevor Noah?

  If we're not careful, we're gonna be, we're gonna be as hated by Wemba Nyama, but in New Jersey only.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  I had a friend inviting me back to New, I had a friend, he had a party and he told me to, invited me to New Jersey and I went like, sorry, but I can't make it because if I came to your party in New Jersey, even Ugansans would go like, dude. You'd rather just come back to Uganda. Why would you go to New Jersey? Hmm? Why would you leave Uganda and go to New Jersey? But the thing is, the thing I just said about New York, and sports fans love this, they love, we love underdog stories, right?

• 51:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  We love Morocco making a run, we like, but the thing that New York taught me, and sometimes we take it for granted, is sometimes it's good for the sport. For a big team with a big passionate base, with big fans to win, because what New York has done.

• 51:29Trevor Noah?

  Sometimes, always, I argue.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  No, but sometimes you like Greece winning in two thousand and four.

• 51:34Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  But I'm saying like, the publicity and the contagious energy around New York, you know, the celebrities turning up. Sometimes the sport needs that. Sometimes, let me put it like this, sometimes David needs to hoop. Goliath, I'd rather, Goliath needs to whip.

• 51:51Trevor Noah?

  Needs to whip David's ass.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 51:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I argue this wasn't, I don't think that this was, I don't think this was Goliath beating David, I think it's the other way around.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:59Trevor Noah?

  Let's put it, let's go with this. Sometimes the fans of David, like, they get to such a point, like, David's fans get so big. That David needs to win the fight, because I argue that the Knicks weren't Goliath in this fight.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  No, no, no, but when you look at the way basketball.

• 52:14Trevor Noah?

  No, I know what you mean, but like, like.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Big market teams and small market teams.

• 52:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but for me, I'm like, nah, bro, the Knicks, the Knicks were like, yo, people said, people said whoever wins the game between OKC and Spurs. Is going on to win this thing.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Yes, but what I'm saying is, when you look at the teams, when they talk about, so when they talk about big market teams.

• 52:32Trevor Noah?

  I hear you.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  L A, New York.

• 52:34Trevor Noah?

  They were like a, they were a small team in a big market, and now they've become the biggest team in the biggest market.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  No, because, because the thing is, the amount of hype, because we've seen OKC win, we've seen Denver Nuggets win, we've seen the Milwaukee Bucks win. We never saw this kind of hype, because, I'll tell you this, Taylor Swift, say what you would about her, she's not going to Wisconsin to watch the Bucks. She's not going to Oklahoma City to watch, however good they are, she's not going to watch the Thunder, she's not going to Denver to watch the Nuggets.

• 53:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I mean, to be fair to her, she's also like, lived in New York, so, people will make, people were also making it like she just popped out of nowhere. I understand where they were coming from, because I can imagine if you were a Knicks fan, even if you were a celebrity.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:11Trevor Noah?

  Like, if you were a celebrity who is. Below Taylor Swift, which is almost all celebrities. And you couldn't get into that game. And then you see Taylor Swift dancing up there with her friends. And you're like, which other games, where was she?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 53:23Trevor Noah?

  When the Knicks was blowing leads.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 53:25Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean? Year after year, where was, I can see why people were angry, but at least.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  No, no, but for me, it's not just her. Timothy Chalamet, currently the biggest movie star in the world.

• 53:33Trevor Noah?

  Timothy, yo, yo, yo, yo.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  No, no, I mean, he's a fan of the Knicks.

• 53:36Trevor Noah?

  Yo, fan is an understatement. Yo.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  But I'm saying a small market team like OKC doesn't have a Timothy Chalamet.

• 53:41Trevor Noah?

  Okay, yeah, I'm with you.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Small market team like Denver Nuggets don't have Timothy. So Timothy Chalamet helps the sport go from the back pages to pop culture.

• 53:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Taylor Swift, all these people.

• 53:52Trevor Noah?

  Okay, I see what you're saying then. You're saying it's, it's good for the sport to have moments that pop it into pop. I argue that's what Team USA did. So for me, the, the biggest reason I was happy for Team USA to win is because the stadium had Tom Cruise, David Beckham, Leonardo DiCaprio, Justin Bieber, Hailey Bieber, I Show Speed.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:12Trevor Noah?

  Draymond Green, like because of that, I was happy for America, for Americans, for the sport, for the global spectacle of it all. So that it also didn't become like a sideshow.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:22Trevor Noah?

  I didn't want people to come and be like, is this the soccer you guys are talking about? It was like, oh, this thing is real. And we have a real team and we have a real moment. That's, that's what I enjoyed about it.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  So for me, that's why I say you always need, in a way, the big man. And I know sports fans don't like it. But it's almost like if you want sport to grow and if you want sport to transcend sport. Cause you know, you know, a sport doesn't grow if just the diehard fans.

• 54:46Trevor Noah?

  Right, right, right.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  If you want it to go mainstream, you want it to cross over from the back pages to TMZ. You want to see US, you, you want to see Policeek and all those guys being like harassed by the TMZ reporter.

• 54:59Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know what I'm just thinking of now? Essentially, this is what you're saying. In order for David's victory to be, to mean something over Goliath.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:07Trevor Noah?

  We need Goliath to be Goliath.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:10Trevor Noah?

  Fundamentally, that's what you're saying, right? Because if Goliath doesn't become Goliath, then David just hit some random dude with a stone in the middle of his head.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Yes, I know.

• 55:17Trevor Noah?

  And it's not a story.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:18Trevor Noah?

  So we need Goliaths to be made so that the Davids, so that the Davids can fell them.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  I like how you went.

• 55:23Trevor Noah?

  It's the same with Brazil.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  If you don't have that. If David, if David hit some random dude.

• 55:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, if David just hit some random dude with a stone, it's like, alright, you hear what David did?

• 55:31Speaker 01

  It wouldn't be a proverb, yes.

• 55:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, he hit another guy with a stone. Man, that guy needs to put that slingshot away, man. He's just, he's, he's a, he's, he's nothing licensed.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  He needs to hit Goliath.

• 55:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you gotta hit that. But for Goliath to be a thing, Goliath has to be Goliath.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 55:43Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean? The reigning champion of the world. Which game are you most excited for this week?

• 55:47Speaker 01

  I'm excited for the one we're going to cover, first of all, tomorrow. Uh, no, wait, the one, the one we're going to cover, France-Senegal.

• 55:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  I love that game.

• 55:55Trevor Noah?

  That's big.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  That game has a history, two thousand, two thousand and two World Cup.

• 55:59Trevor Noah?

  That's big.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Senegal shocks France, and France get, France had won the World Cup in nineteen ninety-eight.

• 56:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Senegal shocks them, and that set the tone, because France didn't make it out of the group.

• 56:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Even with Zidane, yes, an injured Zidane, but he still didn't make it out. And that by the, kickstarted this trend where whichever team had won the World Cup before.

• 56:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Didn't make it to the next World Cup. So France didn't make it to the next World, uh, and so for me, this game has lots of history. It has lots of colonial history as well.

• 56:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Because Senegal and France, of course, they have their colonial ties. And I think Senegal is a good team. I think Senegal is good enough with Sadio Mane and all their.

• 56:34Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  His supporting cast. They're such a good team that they will give France a game. Because France are the favorites.

• 56:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  To win the World Cup. But this is going to be their first huge, huge test, because they lost their last game against Ivory Coast.

• 56:45Trevor Noah?

  Yep, which was a massive moment.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yes, which also had like the colonial history.

• 56:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, massive moment.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  So for me, this is going to be a good test of where France are.

• 56:54Trevor Noah?

  I don't want to call them scandals, but the stories around the game.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 56:58Trevor Noah?

  You know, there's been like a few of them, one.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 57:00Trevor Noah?

  We've seen all of these press conferences where reporters are trying to speak to the players in Spanish.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 57:05Trevor Noah?

  The players are trying to respond in Spanish.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 57:07Trevor Noah?

  And then the FIFA representatives are saying, no, you only speak in English. But the irony of it is, they're saying you can only speak in English because that's the only language it can be translated from.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

• 57:17Trevor Noah?

  So it seems like they just didn't account for the fact that many of the players only speak Spanish.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:22Trevor Noah?

  It's one of the most spoken languages in football specifically.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  But I think FIFA likes encouraging English as the standard language because.

• 57:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, there's a difference between encouraging and dictating.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  But what's FIFA if not a dictatorship? FIFA is not a democracy, I'll tell you that. FIFA is not a democracy. They've been. I think, look.

• 57:42Trevor Noah?

  The other thing has been like, the, all the players, the Senegalese fans, like, do you think it'll affect the team? Them not having, them not having their fans there?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  I think you need your fans, but I also think when you're playing at a, at a World Cup, if you need extra motivation, then you shouldn't be at the World Cup. Just being at the World Cup, it's almost like, it's almost like asking someone, ah, should your wedding have like cheerleaders? No, if you're getting married, you should want to get married. If you want extras to get married, then maybe you shouldn't be getting married.

• 58:09Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, bro. If none of your family come to your wedding, you might start to doubt whether or not you should be having that wedding. There's just gonna be moments.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  You're leaving your family though.

• 58:16Trevor Noah?

  There's just gonna be moments when you're standing up there and then everyone cheers for your bride. And then nobody cheers for you and you're gonna be like, should I be here? Do I deserve to be here in this moment?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  You always need your supporters, but.

• 58:26Trevor Noah?

  Look at, look at the Scottish fans. I argue, I argue they whirled the ball into the net in that game. They like, they like sucked it in.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  They turn every city they go to.

• 58:35Trevor Noah?

  Even Japan, the Japanese fans, I think are part of the reason that, like, they, they didn't get tense against the Netherlands. They carried on singing, they carried on drumming away. I think it's, it's part of the reason. As, as always, Joe, this has been a pleasure, my friend.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  No, man. Anytime we have talk soccer, you know me, we could talk for hours, by the way.

• 58:52Trevor Noah?

  And we will. We have many more hours coming. We have many more, but let's save it, let's save it for then. For now, for now, my friend, it's full time.

• 59:01Trevor Noah?

  I'll see you, I'll see you at the next one.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  No, it's always fun. It's always a pleasure. This was fun.

• 59:07Trevor Noah?

  Thank you again so much to the sponsor of today's episode, Verizon. They've given their customers unmatched access to the FIFA World Cup 2026, including thousands of free tickets, people, meets and greets with soccer legends, and the once in a lifetime opportunity to watch a portion of the FIFA World Cup from the pitch, from the pitch. All just for being a Verizon customer. If you're not with Verizon, no sweats. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their amazing offers for new customers.

• 59:46Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.