Episode 180: Times Beach

the most dangerous thing in the world: a man with a truck. new SHIRT: https://www.bonfire.com/pls-dont-sue-us-either/ links to help out gazan families from DEVON:https://www.gofundme.com/f/to-preserve-whats-left-of-humanity-global-solidarityhttps://chuffed.org/project/124906-help-ahmed-and-family-evacuate-gazahttps://chuffed.org/project/121901-help-mahers-family-with-medical-costshttps://chuffed.org/project/128691-help-my-family-evacuate-gaza-war-zonehttps://chuffed.org/project/130802-help-rashas-family-in-gaza-evacuate-and-live Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wtyppod/ Send us stuff! our address:Well There's Your Podcasting CompanyPO Box 26929 Philadelphia, PA 19134DO NOT SEND US LETTER BOMBS thanks in advance in the commercial: Local Forecast - Elevator Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Justin Roczniak?

  And we have to do a the

• 0:03Liam McAnderson?

  Sing point.

• 0:04Justin Roczniak?

  That's the word I'm looking for. Yes, I remember how to podcast.

• 0:08Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, boy.

• 0:10November Kelly?

  You take one month off merely because you've been

• 0:13Liam McAnderson?

  Cause you forgot a bunch of stuff.

• 0:14November Kelly?

  Extremely strenuous tour and also I had to finish my degree and all of a sudden

• 0:19Liam McAnderson?

  Congratulations by the way.

• 0:20November Kelly?

  Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I say finish the degree. I think it is still technically possible for me to have fucked up this last like dissertation bit badly enough that I like don't, but you know, Inshallah, right? I get a degree soon.

• 0:34Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I was about to say, we need to see you with the degree in your hands.

• 0:37November Kelly?

  Oh, they don't do the graduations earnings till like October, so it's gonna be a minute.

• 0:41Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

• 0:43Justin Roczniak?

  Wow. So, um,

• 0:46November Kelly?

  Oh, the same point.

• 0:47Justin Roczniak?

  Three, two, one, mark.

• 0:48Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 0:48Justin Roczniak?

  Um, three, two, one, mark. Okay.

• 0:53Liam McAnderson?

  That sounded crispy.

• 0:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. Um, all right. Uh, we're here. We're podcasting.

• 0:59November Kelly?

  All right. Sick.

• 1:01Justin Roczniak?

  Welcome to Well, Where's Your Problem? It's a podcast about engineering disasters with slides. Sometimes we accidentally take a month off from.

• 1:10November Kelly?

  Sorry.

• 1:11Liam McAnderson?

  We've done multiple times.

• 1:13November Kelly?

  Yeah, listen, we have a particular kind of work ethic and also.

• 1:18Liam McAnderson?

  And the Protestant kind.

• 1:21November Kelly?

  And also neurodivergence.

• 1:22Justin Roczniak?

  Catholic kind.

• 1:23November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, I, I mean, I, I missed you guys and I, I missed, I missed the audience as well. I missed doing this.

• 1:31Liam McAnderson?

  Don't, don't tell them that.

• 1:32November Kelly?

  If, you know, okay, fine. I resent all of them deeply, right? But like, if I had tried to do one of these while I was doing my, my like, uh, the end of my dissertation, uh, my brain would have melted out of my ears live on air. Like you think you've seen derangement beforehand. It's no, it would have been, you know, incomparable.

• 1:53Justin Roczniak?

  Absolutely. Yeah. Now, now we're all here. We're in a relaxed zen type state.

• 1:58Liam McAnderson?

  A zen caster type state, one might say.

• 2:00Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 2:01November Kelly?

  I'm, I'm saying that. Plug for the software that we all hate.

• 2:05Liam McAnderson?

  Well, I was gonna get there. I was, I was praising it. It's like when my dad says thank you to the ATM because when the robots rise up, they will remember his kindness and spare him.

• 2:13November Kelly?

  Your dad, your dad believes in Rocco's basilisk, but for ATMs?

• 2:17Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, yeah. The singularity is coming is kind of job one.

• 2:21November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 2:23Justin Roczniak?

  Um, let me finish the intro. I'm Justin Roczniak. I'm the person talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go.

• 2:30November Kelly?

  I'm November Kelly. I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are she and her. Yay Liam.

• 2:35Liam McAnderson?

  Yay Liam. Hi, I'm Liam McAnderson. My pronouns are he, him, and before we get too far into it, I have a plug, which is to say that my coworker's grandson, uh, needs a accessible van. Uh, we're gonna drop the link in the description below. Uh, the hogs are gonna buy a van.

• 2:49November Kelly?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 2:51Liam McAnderson?

  Not the car you buy for thirty six hundred dollars somewhere in the Poconos and then you go to Atlantic City and try to steal the president's stuff.

• 2:57November Kelly?

  Yeah, I, it's, it's a pro van podcast. We've been very clear about that.

• 3:01Liam McAnderson?

  That's right, baby.

• 3:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, and I just, uh, want to thank everyone who came to the tour.

• 3:05November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 3:06Justin Roczniak?

  It turned out really good.

• 3:07November Kelly?

  If you didn't, fuck you.

• 3:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. Nothing, nothing bad happened at any of the shows, I think.

• 3:13November Kelly?

  No, it's crazy. And I mean, we'll be, we'll be like releasing the, uh, like edits of the shows, the recordings. Uh, as we, you know, uh, as.

• 3:22Liam McAnderson?

  One of the ideas for, uh, bonus episodes.

• 3:25November Kelly?

  I have an idea. I'm just trying to schedule it, right?

• 3:28Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, is that a? With the guests?

• 3:31November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:31Liam McAnderson?

  Top of the dactyl, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:32November Kelly?

  We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. But like, uh, but the reason why I'm being so, uh, so oblique about that is because it sets up the only joke that I've thought of for the subject, so I don't want to spoil it.

• 3:43Liam McAnderson?

  Hardly knew it.

• 3:44Justin Roczniak?

  Thanks to everyone who, uh, who helped out with us, uh, on the tour. Uh, you know, June, Corinne, Scooter, who else was there?

• 3:52Liam McAnderson?

  Megan, Jay.

• 3:52Justin Roczniak?

  Megan, yes, Megan and Jay. Yeah, obviously Jay, because he's doing the edits.

• 3:57Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, uh, he sent me an email that said, I'm trusting you to not abuse this power. I don't know what that could have possibly meant, but buddy, I am going to abuse it.

• 4:07Justin Roczniak?

  Wait, which power?

• 4:08Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, I think I now have root access to his file server.

• 4:12Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, I see, I see.

• 4:13November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 4:13Liam McAnderson?

  I don't know that I do, but, uh, Jay, the, uh, the unfinished, uh, TF2, uh, mods are coming.

• 4:21Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Liam McAnderson?

  Jay's cut parentheses Liam's version.

• 4:24Justin Roczniak?

  I'm downloading a bunch of documents from the War Thunder forums and storing them in here.

• 4:30November Kelly?

  Just 3D printed autosave files.

• 4:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 4:36Justin Roczniak?

  All right. So anyway, what you see on the screen in front of you is a quite pleasant looking state park.

• 4:43November Kelly?

  Yeah. I see the Merrimack.

• 4:45Liam McAnderson?

  That way, is it?

• 4:46November Kelly?

  The Merrimack River, which I assume is going to intersect with the Monitor River downstream.

• 4:52Justin Roczniak?

  I think it actually might.

• 4:54Liam McAnderson?

  You're kidding.

• 4:55Justin Roczniak?

  Merrimack is spelled differently when it's the boat, though, I think.

• 4:59November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 4:59Justin Roczniak?

  Um.

• 5:00November Kelly?

  Well, they were spelling all kinds of stuff wrong back in the 19th century.

• 5:05Liam McAnderson?

  Well done, yes.

• 5:06Justin Roczniak?

  That's true.

• 5:06November Kelly?

  Ah, nailed it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ace AP US history as well as criminology.

• 5:12Justin Roczniak?

  Well, that means you don't have to take a class in college. Anyway, so this pleasant looking Route 66 State Park, it's not supposed to look like this.

• 5:20Liam McAnderson?

  What?

• 5:20Justin Roczniak?

  It's supposed to be a town.

• 5:23Liam McAnderson?

  Oh.

• 5:24November Kelly?

  Oh, okay.

• 5:25Justin Roczniak?

  A town called Times Beach, Missouri.

• 5:28November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 5:29Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I've read the Green Anarchists. Yeah, I've read Why Hope the Case Against Civilization?

• 5:35Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, this is, yeah, this is what the NIMBYs want, eventually demolish every single building.

• 5:42Justin Roczniak?

  But before we talk about the fate of Times Beach, Missouri, we have to do the goddamn news.

• 5:57Justin Roczniak?

  Ah, Krasner won.

• 5:59November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:00Justin Roczniak?

  Fuck you.

• 6:01November Kelly?

  Stay mad.

• 6:02Liam McAnderson?

  I really liked your, I like that. I really liked your, I am a hardened criminal in favor of Larry Krasner's pro-crime policies.

• 6:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, that, yeah, that, that, that is, that is true. This, this guy, so the, the big hobby horse right now for a lot of people in the Philadelphia Democratic machine is we're gonna try and kick out our progressive prosecutor, Larry Krasner, who has been pissing off the establishment for a long time on account of.

• 6:30Liam McAnderson?

  His job.

• 6:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, cuz he does his job.

• 6:31November Kelly?

  It's the San Francisco playbook. It's the same thing they did to, is it Chase of Budan? Is that how you pronounce his name? I hope so.

• 6:38Justin Roczniak?

  That sounds about right.

• 6:39November Kelly?

  But yeah, it's, it's, it's the same thing of like, oh, we got a prosecutor who's too progressive, so, you know, the cops and. And like every other kind of force of evil out there is gonna like collaborate to try and rat fuck him.

• 6:50Liam McAnderson?

  Well, yeah, once the FOP endorses a candidate, I sort of turned the other way. I do want to point out, uh, in Roz's response to the auto text from, uh, from, uh, fuckface. What was his name?

• 7:03Justin Roczniak?

  What's his name? Do was it Dugan?

• 7:06Liam McAnderson?

  I don't give a shit.

• 7:06Justin Roczniak?

  Or something.

• 7:07November Kelly?

  Red shoes Dugan. It doesn't matter is the thing. He's lost.

• 7:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, he lost. Exactly. The other guy.

• 7:12Liam McAnderson?

  Capitalized both W's and Wawa.

• 7:14Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 7:15Liam McAnderson?

  That's how I know you're not fucking from here.

• 7:17Justin Roczniak?

  The Wawa camel case? That's deranged.

• 7:20Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that's, that's a fuck shit. Wawa is not capital A, capital W, lowercase a, capital W, lowercase a. It's just.

• 7:27Justin Roczniak?

  Except for the one in Wildwood.

• 7:32Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, that one's, well, okay, so that's not.

• 7:34November Kelly?

  You do camel case in Wildwood and Wawa there just for, just for.

• 7:37Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Synchronicity. It was a trip. I was in Wildwood last week. Fucking place never changes, man.

• 7:43Justin Roczniak?

  With Kebekwa.

• 7:44November Kelly?

  I, my, my, my note here just says, congratulations to Ozempic Patton Oswalt.

• 7:49Liam McAnderson?

  Gone off that Zem.

• 7:51November Kelly?

  And if, if you think that's a cruel thing for me to be saying about Larry Krasner, I'm also on, I'm Ozempic November Kelly. So it's fine. I'm allowed. So I have, I have like epistemic privilege. I can say that.

• 8:02Justin Roczniak?

  There you go. There you go. So yeah, this is, uh, I mean, good for the city. I, I mean, these, this seems to be the only place where, you know, progressives seem to be consistently winning anywhere is DAs. I don't know why.

• 8:14November Kelly?

  Well, there is, there is an addendum to that, which is if you, if you live in New York City, vote many times and illegally for Zoran Mamdani, uh, for mayor of New York City, cause he has a, he has a decent shot, like against, against.

• 8:28Justin Roczniak?

  It's looking, looking more promising there.

• 8:30Liam McAnderson?

  If I have to hear from Cuomo one more fucking time, I'm going to, uh, you'll have to bleep this, David. I'm nine 11.

• 8:38November Kelly?

  Yeah. I mean, the thing is he's, he's within touching distance of, of Cuomo and that's the last distance you want to be of Cuomo.

• 8:45Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, uh, probably, probably want to avoid that.

• 8:49Liam McAnderson?

  Remorse, your quote, episode.

• 8:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. But is Zoran gonna bring home the ZD?

• 8:58November Kelly?

  Yeah. By the way, can someone explain to me, right? I, I, I don't have a dog in this fight, right? I, I don't, I don't go to your country, but like, can someone explain to me why neither, neither AOC nor Bernie have endorsed that guy yet? Because he really, it's fucked up that they haven't at this point.

• 9:16Justin Roczniak?

  It's, you know, there could be a lot of reasons. It could be a timing thing. Sometimes people like to wait a bit so it's fresh in the minds of everyone. Sometimes it's like, okay, we need some kind of, you know, someone's got to pull some strings in the background, you know? There's probably all kinds of internal politicking we're not even aware of. I mean, I'm sure there's a bunch of like horrible, you know?

• 9:40Liam McAnderson?

  Liberal bullshit.

• 9:41Justin Roczniak?

  Liberal bullshit.

• 9:42November Kelly?

  You think AOC is like working tirelessly towards an endorsement?

• 9:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, that, that, that sounds about right. Yeah.

• 9:49Liam McAnderson?

  You know what? The older I get, the more I've just like, all right, November Kelly is Stalin. Let's do it.

• 9:56Justin Roczniak?

  Voting for, voting for November Kelly for Stalin.

• 10:00Liam McAnderson?

  I don't, I mean, listen. Put my dad there. He's whatever. He's a million. He's deranged. He's, he's not a sexual predator. He's just insane.

• 10:08November Kelly?

  I, I, I support your dad.

• 10:09Justin Roczniak?

  Dad is running for Mao.

• 10:11Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 10:13November Kelly?

  I don't, I don't think I'd be a good Stalin. I think I'd be a good, like, one of the guys Stalin shot. Like, who, who like went to his death being like, sure, whatever. It's all for the revolution. I'm sure it'll turn out fine. You know, that's, that's my niche, I think.

• 10:27Liam McAnderson?

  My dad's Twitter bio, uh, cause he's not allowed to go on Twitter anymore because it raises his blood pressure too much, a real thing that happens. It's just, it starts with unrepentant leftist.

• 10:36November Kelly?

  Hell, yeah. I mean, you'd hate to have a repentant leftist, right?

• 10:40Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, he doesn't give a shit. He, he's, he's going out, uh, both middle fingers up, I think.

• 10:45November Kelly?

  Hell, yeah.

• 10:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 10:46Liam McAnderson?

  So, all right. So just, yeah, my dad for Mao, whatever, man.

• 10:49November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Liam McAnderson?

  Who cares? Planet's doing, let's do this.

• 10:52November Kelly?

  Climate Mao. Everybody start making solar panels in your backyard.

• 10:55Justin Roczniak?

  We're bringing back Lysenkoism, folks. Yeah. Um, in other news.

• 11:03Justin Roczniak?

  The Pope is from Chicago.

• 11:05Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, that accent.

• 11:09Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, the Lord said, go Sox.

• 11:13Justin Roczniak?

  Go Sox, yeah, wrong Sox, though.

• 11:15Liam McAnderson?

  Doesn't matter.

• 11:17November Kelly?

  I, yeah, I, he's not the guy I would have picked for it, but then they don't let me pick the Pope either. It turns out, so I do think that I have, I have an inkling, right? Which is that as Popes go, this is going to be a relatively woke Pope.

• 11:34Justin Roczniak?

  I think he's gonna be a pretty, yeah, I think this is gonna be a pretty good Pope. I, the, the things, things are looking good. I mean, he's continuing a lot of Pope Francis's policies. He's going after Opus Day right now, which is hilarious.

• 11:49November Kelly?

  I mean, also, cause like, um, the thing that I, I want to see from, from a Pope is, and I think why he got this job in the first place, is to yell at American, like, MAGA conservatives and try.

• 12:03Justin Roczniak?

  That is also the impression I got, and also it's like a compromise because, you know, having an American Pope, you know, these sorts of trad Cath guys who wanna, you know, create a new kind of Protestantism are kinda like, well.

• 12:18Liam McAnderson?

  They just wanna do prosperity gospel bullshit nonsense. And then dudes paying $40,000 for boot camps because their dads failed them bullshit.

• 12:26November Kelly?

  Yeah. You ever see a guy get elected for what might be like a 20-year term, purely to write one encyclical that starts, listen up, fuckface?

• 12:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, well, no, there's also gonna be the encyclical on, um, a prohibition on Catholics putting ketchup on hot dogs.

• 12:45Liam McAnderson?

  I like ketchup on hot dogs.

• 12:47November Kelly?

  Gonna get a real, like, dogmatic ruling on what shape a pizza should be.

• 12:52Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 12:53Liam McAnderson?

  It should be a casserole of some kind for some reason.

• 12:55Justin Roczniak?

  No, no, maybe it's tavern style.

• 12:58Liam McAnderson?

  Ooh.

• 12:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 13:00November Kelly?

  I like, I like a deep dish, you know, like you can't really get them here, but in principle, I like a deep dish.

• 13:05Justin Roczniak?

  I, a deep dish is like a once in a while thing, you know, tavern style is like, you can have that a bunch. The other, it's too, it's too expensive is the thing. Like you can't just get it ordered. You have to go to a restaurant.

• 13:18Liam McAnderson?

  Everything's too expensive, man.

• 13:19November Kelly?

  It's, it's, it's weird that you get that as an encyclical in English verbatim. Um, the other, the other thing about this guy is that he's kind of Peruvian, right? Which it means that, uh, this is a generational endorsement for the idea that, uh, if a white boy is sensitive enough, he can kind of become Latina.

• 13:38Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a, a, a big, this is a big leap for Pan Americanism. You know, I mean.

• 13:46Liam McAnderson?

  We are going to close the Darien Gap.

• 13:49Justin Roczniak?

  The Darien Gap? We're finally going to put a railroad through the Darien Gap?

• 13:52Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we're gonna do it. Pope Leo, close the Darien Gap. I'm tired of riding my armored motorbike.

• 14:03November Kelly?

  Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's gonna be like anything else, right? Where you, you see any of the stuff that hews to a kind of basically pastoralist kind of woke Catholicism. Uh, where, you know, you're gonna see, uh, all of the pro migrant stuff, which is fully in line with that, or all the Catholic social teaching stuff, and people are gonna be like, and you're telling me this guy's a reactionary. And then you're gonna see all of the anti-abortion, all of the like anti-queer and anti-trans stuff. And people are gonna be like, so you're telling me this guy's supposed to be a liberal? Uh, it doesn't mean anything.

• 14:34Justin Roczniak?

  No, he's the Pope.

• 14:35November Kelly?

  He's the Pope. Uh, that's his job now. The fucked up thing is that he has brothers and who, who will like make themselves available to the media. Because, you know, the church doesn't like sequester you for that anymore. And he's got like one woker, kind of like shit-lit brother, and he's got one MAGA chud brother. So you get one brother each for like MSNBC and Fox.

• 15:00Liam McAnderson?

  They just go back and forth. Maybe they teleport. Who's to say?

• 15:03November Kelly?

  Yeah. I'm excited to hear from both of those guys for the rest of my life.

• 15:07Justin Roczniak?

  This is also gonna be the guy who's probably, you know, starting to set up Vatican III, which I think is

• 15:13Liam McAnderson?

  Come on already.

• 15:15Justin Roczniak?

  Well, it's probably still like fifteen to twenty years off.

• 15:19November Kelly?

  Yeah, let me in the fucking building. Also, when I said in my life, I really hope I live longer than that, but you know, if I don't outlive the Pope's maga brother, then you know. Um, yeah, do, do, uh, Holy Father, I assume you listen to the podcast. Uh, you speak English better than any of the previous ones. The last Pope who spoke English spoke Middle English. So like, uh, I, I, I assume you listen to the podcast. Can you just fucking like chill?

• 15:46Liam McAnderson?

  Let her in.

• 15:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, we gotta, we gotta start more aggressively steering the tiller towards it's okay to be gay.

• 15:54November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:55Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 15:56Justin Roczniak?

  But you know, it is the, the, the, the church is an oil tanker, not a skidoo.

• 16:04Liam McAnderson?

  Just, I like the, the visual of Pope Leo, uh, tagging up her dear life in Wildwood Crest.

• 16:11November Kelly?

  You know, you know what it's been, you know, it's been too long since we've had, in my opinion, is a gay Pope, right? Cause like, when's the last time you had, like, obviously, okay, they can't be like gay, gay, but like, sometimes you just know, right? You know, when you see a red priest, right? When, when was the last time we had a like ambiguously gay Pope and why isn't it now? You know?

• 16:31Justin Roczniak?

  Hmm.

• 16:32November Kelly?

  I think it would do wonders, bring back a whole like medieval Renaissance vibe.

• 16:35Justin Roczniak?

  What's, what's that word that Pope Francis used?

• 16:38November Kelly?

  Throshaj, you know?

• 16:39Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:40Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we can't say that.

• 16:42November Kelly?

  But I can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, the, the, the, the late, uh, the late Pope of, of like dear memory used to say that there was too much throshaj, you know, in the Vatican. And then when he got called on that, he apologized and then the next week he said it again, which I can't.

• 17:02Liam McAnderson?

  Roll down, baby.

• 17:03November Kelly?

  How are you not supposed to, like, I don't care what he called me. That's, that's a funny thing. I feel affection for the guy.

• 17:09Justin Roczniak?

  It's a beautiful word, like everything in Italian.

• 17:12November Kelly?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, absolutely. Um, so yeah, American Pope is crazy and, and Villanova, I assume are gonna be normal about this.

• 17:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, well, that's, that's, I, I, I would call him Chicago Pope, but people are trying to say he's a Philly Pope.

• 17:27Liam McAnderson?

  He's not, Villanova is not a Philly school. Villanova is not a Philly school. We have two legitimate Catholic universities. We have the good one, St. Joe's, alma mater of my beloved wife, and we have LaSalle, alma mater of my less beloved father-in-law.

• 17:45November Kelly?

  Although, but if you look at the scoreboard, zero popes.

• 17:50Liam McAnderson?

  Pope Francis did visit St. Joe's and yet did not visit Villanova.

• 17:55November Kelly?

  Interesting. What does he know?

• 17:57Justin Roczniak?

  World leaders right now who have probably been to Wawa.

• 18:01November Kelly?

  I mean, the Pope and Bibi Netanyahu going to the same Wawa? Yeah, troubling.

• 18:07Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, what a, what the world's worst meet cute. On my A O three page is gonna look like a, like fucking Chernobyl.

• 18:17November Kelly?

  Enemies to lovers arc, slow burn coffee shop A U.

• 18:21Liam McAnderson?

  I'd read that, yeah.

• 18:25Liam McAnderson?

  Mprak Pope is what I'm saying.

• 18:26November Kelly?

  Hmm. I think that gets you excommunicated and you just got in.

• 18:31Liam McAnderson?

  I just got here. Yeah, well, when I come back, when they make me Pope, you're coming with me, Nova. I'll handcuff you to me like what's her name did to the Twitter door.

• 18:42November Kelly?

  Yeah, I'm Stalin, your dad's Mao, you're Pope. We just got to find a job for Justin. It's fine.

• 18:50Liam McAnderson?

  Vice Regent of the Swiss Guard. Whatever they use. Come on, man. You get an MP5 and a funny hat.

• 18:57Justin Roczniak?

  I do want the funny hat.

• 18:59Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, you wouldn't be so good with an MP5. Your accuracy.

• 19:04November Kelly?

  The thing, the last thing I got to say about the Pope, right, is they really threaded the needle on this one, right? Because he's, he's a compromised candidate in the funniest possible way, which is that on indications, he's like a woke Latin mass guy, which is so fucking funny as a combination of aesthetics and politics. It's like, I have high hopes that this is the guy who brings back the like incredibly heavy crown and they're being carried around in a big chair being fanned with like ostrich feathers and shit. But he's also like woke by Catholics. That's, that's, that's the dream.

• 19:41Liam McAnderson?

  Trans people are made in the image of God, but I can only say this in like high church Latin.

• 19:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. He picked Leo as his name because he's like, you know, a big fan of Rerum Novarum. So, you know.

• 19:54Liam McAnderson?

  God says join a union.

• 19:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Well.

• 19:58Liam McAnderson?

  AMDG, baby.

• 19:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, in a jarring shift in tone.

• 20:04Liam McAnderson?

  Ben Cars.

• 20:05November Kelly?

  No, different one, different one. No.

• 20:09November Kelly?

  This is, these are all the bits of stochastic terrorism now happening against, on the one hand, Israeli diplomats and now like, uh, pro-Israel marches. And I think we file this firmly in the what the fuck do you expect is gonna happen column.

• 20:28Justin Roczniak?

  I, yeah, I mean.

• 20:29Liam McAnderson?

  Once you've lost my mother, uh, I don't know.

• 20:33Justin Roczniak?

  Disorganized political violence was always going to result from, you know, doing the genocide. I mean.

• 20:39Liam McAnderson?

  Hundred percent accurate, man.

• 20:40Justin Roczniak?

  That's, that's just, that was very, very, uh, you know, I, I, I'm surprised that, you know, it took this long.

• 20:46November Kelly?

  Um, somebody is gonna be like desperate or deranged or despairing enough that they decide that what they want to do is to like kill some people. Um, and I mean, this is after, mind you, over a year of showing people that nothing works, right? Like, uh, protesting peacefully doesn't work, uh, like writing your congressman doesn't work. Well, exactly, right? And so it's not really a surprise that somebody who's at the most like extreme end of like, uh, emotion for that decides, okay, well, maybe the thing that's gonna work is setting other people on fire, which it isn't, but you see how someone gets to that.

• 21:25Liam McAnderson?

  Connects those dots, right? Yeah.

• 21:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, we don't, we don't have, uh, I mean, you know, you, you can't do organized political violence because we don't talk about that on YouTube.

• 21:35November Kelly?

  Um, I mean, it kind of just.

• 21:36Liam McAnderson?

  We're going to rumble.

• 21:38November Kelly?

  It kind of doesn't just, it kind of just doesn't happen anyway, like at least the way things are set up, something, something would have to change for that to be possible. Uh, and so instead you get this, which is, it's like a car not going into gear, you know, it's like.

• 21:54November Kelly?

  It's purposeless, senseless violence.

• 21:57Liam McAnderson?

  The thing that that has really gotten me about the way pros, like I've said a billion times, the anti-terrorist issue of nation states shouldn't exist in the first place. And my people don't need one, especially, you know, colonization and so on and so forth. But one of the things that really strikes me is the tone of pro, the pro Israel, like that Lindsey Graham tweet, Greta Thunberg is going to, as far as I know, run the blockade, something.

• 22:22November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 22:22Liam McAnderson?

  And it's just this mean spirited bullshit nonsense. I mean, fucking, I know you're not wearing a shirt. This is dog milk.

• 22:31November Kelly?

  Well, listen, I mean, don't worry about it.

• 22:35Liam McAnderson?

  All right, roll tide.

• 22:37November Kelly?

  Roll down tide.

• 22:38Liam McAnderson?

  I just, I just, I'm like, Vetterman too, it's just this mean spirited bully shit. Where it's just like, I know the guy's brain doesn't work anymore, but it's just, it's just so fucking, it's that mega like, who are you treating? It's like, people are fucking dying. People are starving in the streets, you know, and regardless, I would say almost regardless of your positioning on Israel, Palestine, which should be that Israel, that one state called country, one, one language called language, and one currency called Liam bucks.

• 23:05November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 23:06Liam McAnderson?

  As we've stated, official podcast position, I think what gets me the most is just like, you can't even fuck, you can't fucking talk to these people.

• 23:13November Kelly?

  No.

• 23:14Liam McAnderson?

  They're all fucking cuckoo bananas, you know, and I don't, I don't necessarily endorse gunning people down in the streets, but like, I, I think the answer is what the fuck did you expect? If you're being exposed 24/7 to horrific images of children dying in the streets, you're gonna lose your shit a little bit.

• 23:33November Kelly?

  Yeah. And I mean, nobody's really equipped to deal with the notion that like, there is nothing that can be done to stop this.

• 23:42Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 23:42November Kelly?

  Which is what it increasingly seems like, and it seems like that more every day for the last, what, like fucking 14 months or whatever the fuck it is. Like, and obviously that's gonna like push some people over the edge.

• 23:57Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 23:58November Kelly?

  And like. The it just it's impunity again, right? Like, and all of this stuff indirectly kind of benefits that because then you get to say, like, um, the entire world is so anti Semitic that it produces this kind of like anti Israeli terrorism. Uh, and therefore Israel continues to have like a kind of moral duty to commit this genocide, right? Um, like, I, I don't.

• 24:27Liam McAnderson?

  I see. I mean, I see those takes and I'm just like, listen, man, like, uh, as, uh, like, I have been, uh, subject to anti Semitic attacks when I was growing up. I would call them attacks. Uh, they weren't. They were just because I was Jewish and like, I, I don't know, like, uh, the people I know, I mean, I'm sure, like, I've said this to Roz is like, I don't really think there's a meaningful anti Semitic problem on the left. I mean, there is, you know.

• 24:49November Kelly?

  You get conspiracy theorists for sure.

• 24:52Liam McAnderson?

  But I think that I said to Roz, and I, I do believe this, that the language of, uh, anti Zionists can creep towards those tropes.

• 25:00November Kelly?

  Oh, sure.

• 25:01Liam McAnderson?

  But what you set someone down and they're just like, hey, man, like, we probably shouldn't be using the phrase Zionist occupied government because that's Turner diary shit.

• 25:08November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Liam McAnderson?

  You know, but like, I just, I, I think I just come, I can't wrap my around, I'm like, the thing that actually really kind of gets me is like, no one's Tel Aviv, and they probably should be at this, but you'll have to bleep that, I guess.

• 25:21November Kelly?

  Yeah. The would like, nobody, nobody has the power to do that well.

• 25:26Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 25:26November Kelly?

  And like, the only people who have the like, will to do that, don't have the power to do that, you know, like.

• 25:34Justin Roczniak?

  Reminded of that, um, that Imam on memory TV. Yes, I support LGBT. Let's go bomb Tel Aviv.

• 25:42November Kelly?

  Happy Pride Month, dude.

• 25:46Liam McAnderson?

  I, uh, I just, I, I just, the, the mind hunts an explanation and it's just like, I mean, gonna, I don't know. Sorry, Dev. Bebe. Send him to the Hague.

• 25:58Liam McAnderson?

  You know, I, I just, I'm so, I'm so exhausted and like, not to make it about me again, but like, I'm so exhausted of watching horrific crimes be committed in my name. And then watching people who aren't Jewish turn around like Fetterman and be like, aren't you grateful for this? Fucking no, I'm not.

• 26:12November Kelly?

  It's like.

• 26:13Liam McAnderson?

  I'm happy when we're not massacring innocent people.

• 26:16November Kelly?

  It's the same as like, uh, the Trump stuff where you look at it and you go, okay, well, all the stuff that's already happened, right? Not even the stuff that's going to happen that they say they're gonna do, that we know that they're gonna do. But like, even the stuff that's already happened is like so bad that there's no way back from it other than like, and this is the minimum like shit lib position, like war crimes trials, right? Like, you need to have some kind of like massive Nuremberg scale. And that's not even like a huge fucking cell on Nuremberg because they let a lot of people off the hook. But you need to have some kind of like formal process to say that the ideology that produced this can't exist anymore.

• 27:00November Kelly?

  Whether that's for the MAGA shit, whether that's for Zionism, it just like, if it leads to this, the only way out of it is, is through like something like that. And there's no sign that that's gonna happen for either of those ever.

• 27:14Liam McAnderson?

  These are my, uh, these are my corrective shotguns, truth and reconciliation.

• 27:18November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 27:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, but I would like to emphasize, we do not endorse disorganized political violence.

• 27:24November Kelly?

  No, no, we do not. You can read Trotsky on like individual terrorism, right? Like it's, it's, it's adventurism, but like, you see why it happens and it's not like to, to set your personal feelings about it aside. Like, uh, it's also like, how do you think this is gonna end? Whether that's, you know, in, in either like the US or Israel, like, do you think it ends with like a Democrat getting elected? Or like a guy who believes 80% of what Bibi believes getting elected, but who has like, uh, slightly less oppositional defiant disorder and slightly less corruption. So he's not gonna, you know, perpetuate the genocide to stay out of jail in part, like, of course not. That's it. It's, it's, this is.

• 28:08November Kelly?

  Setting things or has set things for a long time on a path to which, you know, the the ending is is something even worse than this, something like almost incomprehensible. Yeah.

• 28:19Justin Roczniak?

  You know, this is a this is an ugly situation. You can understand the motivations here. Uh, but also, yeah, I, once again, I don't think disorganized uh violence like this is going to help. I this is uh this is ugly situation.

• 28:35November Kelly?

  Yeah, no, for real.

• 28:36Liam McAnderson?

  If you're looking for an endorsement of disorganized political violence, uh, on a on an engineering disasters podcast that we have to host on a Google product. You could, you could figure out.

• 28:46November Kelly?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 28:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you know.

• 28:49Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 28:50Justin Roczniak?

  Anyway, I recommend to the listener, do not go out and do something like this.

• 28:55November Kelly?

  There's a, there's a, there's a bunch of fundraisers, some of which are going to be.

• 28:59Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 29:01November Kelly?

  And again, okay, yeah, sure. That raises the same question of like, you know, this is a kind of drop in the ocean, but you still have to do it.

• 29:08Liam McAnderson?

  You have to do it. You are morally compelled to do it. Um, in all seriousness, uh, yeah, uh, follow Dev. They're doing a great job. Uh, on fundraising to get people to safety and out of Gaza. You are morally compelled to help people. Uh, that is your duty as a human being. That is the deal you cut.

• 29:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 29:25Liam McAnderson?

  If you don't like it, fuck off to Mars. You can take Elon with you. All right.

• 29:28Justin Roczniak?

  That'd be a quick way. That'd be a quick way to go. Anyway, in other news.

• 29:34Liam McAnderson?

  Now ban cars.

• 29:35November Kelly?

  Yeah, ban cars. This is, this is just a quick one from me. Um, it's, it's a UK update. Yeah. So the good news is bafflingly, no one died in the course of this. But so, uh, Liverpool football team, uh, won the question mark FA Cup, I think.

• 29:55Liam McAnderson?

  Football Association.

• 29:56November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big, big parade through the middle of town. Uh, like the, you know, the team was there, all the supporters are there. Great. Good time for everyone. They close off all the streets. Um, but then, uh, somebody has like a heart attack or whatever, so they have to open one of the barriers to let an ambulance through. And some guy who is just like. Uh, driving, right? Tailgates that ambulance through the thing, gets immediately stuck in a crowd full of people because the road's closed and he's not supposed to be on it. And I mean, this is all like in court at the moment, so I'm kind of limited on what I can say about it.

• 30:36November Kelly?

  But like, I don't know why, but it it seems like then just runs a bunch of people over. And uh, this is not like a huge like Ford F-150 type situation. This is like a, like a, uh, what do you call like a people carrier in America, like, um, uh,

• 30:53Liam McAnderson?

  Minivan?

• 30:54November Kelly?

  A minivan. Yeah, it's a minivan. Yeah. Like, it's not like a big like war vehicle, right? It's it's just a completely normal, like, large family car. Just driven into the crowd by someone for, you know, you know, we don't really yet know why. Uh, and injures like a hundred people, like just straight down the street. And it's absolutely like miraculous that nobody died. Um, there's a couple of things here. The ban cars thing is where I'm going to finish this up. The other thing is, um, because of the like Southport thing and the riots, all of the usual suspects, all of these like far right influencers,

• 31:33November Kelly?

  were all immediately assuming and hoping that this was like some kind of Muslim domestic terrorist attack.

• 31:40Liam McAnderson?

  Of course.

• 31:40November Kelly?

  Um, and had already kind of pre-announced that. And so that pushed the cops into having to announce, hey, we've arrested a white British guy.

• 31:52November Kelly?

  Like within an hour.

• 31:53Liam McAnderson?

  Well, so you were just saying terrorist, I mean, but you repeat yourself.

• 31:56November Kelly?

  Well, yeah, well, exactly, right? But I, the thing is, they're not, they're not charging it as terrorism. I don't think they're even charging it as attempted murder. I think it's like GBH and dangerous driving.

• 32:05Liam McAnderson?

  What? Oh, my God.

• 32:07November Kelly?

  But like, uh, this is, this is, I think, troubling, right? Because if you're setting the precedent that, uh, okay, well, when it's a white guy, uh, and it's, it's like, when it's not a Muslim, we announce that to tamp all this shit down and we go, yeah, we arrested like, you know, uh, sort of area angry white. Driver.

• 32:28Liam McAnderson?

  Brood your dickhead, right?

• 32:30November Kelly?

  Yeah, then what happens the next time it isn't a guy like that? You know, and you don't, do you like not announce that and get the same riots thing again? Like, it's a really, like, uncomfortable precedent for the future. Um, so that's the one thing. The other thing is, uh, that you, you just can't have a city center that's built for cars that you then close off for parades and you can't do that consistently and safely without this being a thing that can happen.

• 32:56Justin Roczniak?

  Not to say, I, I mean, they, they have, uh, the last Super Bowl parade in Philly, they handled it much less well than they did the first one.

• 33:04Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, they did.

• 33:06Justin Roczniak?

  It, it's.

• 33:06Liam McAnderson?

  And they didn't handle the first one all that well either.

• 33:08Justin Roczniak?

  They didn't handle the first one that well either. Well, I, I guess they didn't want to see people hauling kegs over the city hall gates.

• 33:15Liam McAnderson?

  We're fucking Philly, dude.

• 33:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, and I know, right?

• 33:19Liam McAnderson?

  Fuck, I fucking hate Cheryl Parker so much. I hate the fucking fun police. I hate that she comes here to suck up fun with her big old straw. Go Birds.

• 33:28November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 33:29Justin Roczniak?

  Didn't someone die at the second parade and not the first one?

• 33:32Liam McAnderson?

  I don't know, man, probably.

• 33:35November Kelly?

  Yeah, but I like, I don't even know how well or how badly they, they set up the like barriers for this. But it's driving, right? Like, that's, it's the kind of thing that driving, like, makes you do is go, well, fuck it. I can, I can like tailgate this ambulance into the thing. Uh, and, and then you kind of find yourself in a situation where you set off what looks for a long second like a terrorist attack. Because you're like.

• 33:59Liam McAnderson?

  Functionally is, by the way.

• 34:00November Kelly?

  Yeah, because you're like, well, I want to drive my car down the road. And it's not even just like that guy's a unique kind of asshole, although he may well be. It's also that, like, he is literally on a road that's designed to do that, that has been closed off temporarily. Like, i- it's, it's not wholly him, it's not wholly a deviant or a baron. It's also that we have designed everything in this country around, around cars. And we've designed it so that, like, we've had this ecosystem for, for like years at this point of being like, oh, you know, latently, I can't wait until someone runs over those Just Stop Oil protesters. Whatever. Um, and that builds that sense of like entitlement to the point that something like this happens.

• 34:45November Kelly?

  So it's like, if you want to have a like vibrant civic life, right? And if you want to have parades and stuff like that, then you have to de-car all of these places in ways that are more permanent and more protective than this. And like, I, I, I had this really uncomfortable revelation about this because I know this street. This is, um, I think this one, this was, uh, Water Street.

• 35:10Liam McAnderson?

  Why is there a Hooters here?

• 35:11November Kelly?

  Uh, British Hooters? It is cursed. It is real.

• 35:15Liam McAnderson?

  I, we have to go.

• 35:16November Kelly?

  I, yeah, let's do a Liverpool live show. I'd be thrilled.

• 35:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, go to the Hooters.

• 35:20November Kelly?

  Yeah, go to the Hooters. Okay, sure. Um, but like, I've been on this street before because the Liverpool Pride March goes down it. And that's an uncomfortable sensation to think, oh, well, it was, you know, presumably protected using the same traffic strategy by the same people making the same decisions. This could have happened to fucking anything. Like, uh, and it could have happened by someone who had like, uh, a different intention. It could have been worse. We don't know. Like, uh, and so you, you just, you can't do this. You can't be like, by the way, every street has to be this kind of like incredibly broad, like sign for traffic thing. You need to pedestrianize shit, like urge.

• 36:03Liam McAnderson?

  Everything, everywhere.

• 36:04Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know if you saw the article that came out recently where all the tech bros are like really excited because, um, we're making the Waymos more aggressive.

• 36:11November Kelly?

  Oh, cool. Okay.

• 36:13Liam McAnderson?

  I'm getting a harpoon gun.

• 36:14November Kelly?

  So now we can get this exact thing, except there's nobody to pull out of the driver's seat. Just have, have a fucking like glorified Roomba with like a five ton car. Uh, just decide to Mr. Mercedes an entire fucking city.

• 36:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 36:28Liam McAnderson?

  Well, not until I get my harpoon gun. Ross and I are going whaling.

• 36:35Justin Roczniak?

  I'm looking for the white Waymo.

• 36:38Liam McAnderson?

  Roll, boys, roll as I just punctured an entire car full of tech bros.

• 36:43November Kelly?

  Yeah, so like this guy is, this guy is like in court, I don't know what's gonna happen to him, but like, it almost doesn't matter at this point because whatever it is, it's not going to address anything systemic here. And the only thing that would be addressing something systemic would be to try and like wean city centers off of cars because you don't, like, I've been in Liverpool city center many times. You don't need a car to get around it. If anything, it's a hindrance, right? It's, it's like, you need, the stuff you need to move around is like deliveries, like municipal services, and the emergency services and public transport, right? There is a way to do that that is so much safer. And also, by the way, is gonna fucking save the fucking planet because of the climate.

• 37:29November Kelly?

  Rather than having like every dickhead in a Ford Galaxy be able to access every single street address in the middle of town for no reason other than their own like rage.

• 37:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 37:41Liam McAnderson?

  That's it.

• 37:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, uh, get, let's, uh, start getting rid of these cars. This is a bad idea. We don't need them anymore.

• 37:49November Kelly?

  All right, that's it. That's, that's all I had for that.

• 37:51Justin Roczniak?

  That was the goddamn news.

• 37:53Liam McAnderson?

  All right, 40 minutes in and we're tied.

• 37:56November Kelly?

  Sorry, I had, I had a lot to get off my chest.

• 37:58Liam McAnderson?

  No, no, you're not in trouble.

• 37:59Justin Roczniak?

  It's been a month.

• 38:01Liam McAnderson?

  I have some self-disclosure here.

• 38:04November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 38:05Liam McAnderson?

  So my mother used to live in Missouri. That's it. That's the self-disclosure.

• 38:09November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 38:10Liam McAnderson?

  She's gonna, she's gonna love this, uh, she's gonna love this bit.

• 38:13Justin Roczniak?

  Gonna have to recuse yourself.

• 38:15Liam McAnderson?

  No, I'm not recusing myself. I'm doubling down. Level the Midwest.

• 38:18November Kelly?

  All I know about Missouri is that it loves company.

• 38:21Justin Roczniak?

  Level the Midwest.

• 38:24Justin Roczniak?

  Do you know how many hills there are in Midwest? Let me rephrase that. Turn the Midwest to glass. Is that better?

• 38:33Liam McAnderson?

  I like Lake of the Ozarks can stay. A friend of the show Katie in Northwest, I believe Northwestern, Northeast Arkansas can stay. That's it. That's it. I know Arkansas is not the Midwest, but for, for my purposes, and it, oh, and Francis gets to stay.

• 38:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, Francis. Yeah.

• 38:50Liam McAnderson?

  All right. That's it. That's all we're saving. Turn it to glass.

• 38:53Justin Roczniak?

  So first we must ask, what is Missouri?

• 38:56Liam McAnderson?

  A pointless wasteland full of the worst fucking people you've ever met. Also Francis and sometimes my mother.

• 39:02November Kelly?

  It's home of Flight Simulator 2024's only unmarked challenge level of flying under that motherfucker right there.

• 39:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, under the Gateway Arch, which is a terrifying structure if you see it in real life.

• 39:16Liam McAnderson?

  Don't we have to do an episode on that?

• 39:18Justin Roczniak?

  No, we're doing an episode about the arch. Yeah. I think Francis's brother is actually a park ranger there.

• 39:23Liam McAnderson?

  Okay. Well, we had Doc Francis's brother, man.

• 39:25Justin Roczniak?

  Well, no, I should. Well, okay. Cut that out then. Anyway, so there's two things in Missouri, St. Louis and Kansas City. It was admitted as a state in 1821.

• 39:37Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, do you mean Kansas City, Missouri, home of the Super Bowl losing Chiefs?

• 39:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, Kansas City, Missouri.

• 39:43November Kelly?

  Taylor Swift's loser boyfriend?

• 39:45Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 39:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• 39:48Liam McAnderson?

  She's not giving us reputation, Taylor's version. Go fuck yourself.

• 39:53Justin Roczniak?

  You may ask, you may ask, why is Kansas City not in Kansas? The answer is there's two of them.

• 39:59November Kelly?

  Yeah, KC, K and KCMO. Yeah.

• 40:01Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, but the, the main part of Kansas City has always been in Missouri.

• 40:05November Kelly?

  This is what happens when you build a city on the state line.

• 40:08Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. And the real answer to that question is I don't know. I don't know anything about Kansas City.

• 40:15Liam McAnderson?

  I like, I like, I like the Super Bowl losing Chiefs.

• 40:18November Kelly?

  I like the baseball mascot.

• 40:20Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Go Royals, baby. Yeah. What else do I have to say about Kansas City? Don't people like the street car there? Is there like a touristy street car people like?

• 40:29Justin Roczniak?

  It has the one good Obama era street car. Yes.

• 40:32Liam McAnderson?

  There we go.

• 40:34Justin Roczniak?

  Cause it only goes in a straight line and it actually has like some advantage over a bus, unlike the rest of them. Obama era street cars. That's a future episode.

• 40:44Liam McAnderson?

  Put it on the spreadsheet.

• 40:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. See, what can you do in, yeah, we have a spreadsheet. We do. I think it's all in there, on there.

• 40:51Liam McAnderson?

  It's okay.

• 40:53November Kelly?

  Weird cheese fried ravioli. Fried ravioli?

• 40:57Justin Roczniak?

  Fried ravi- I had some fried ravioli at the airport. Fried ravioli.

• 41:02November Kelly?

  It was really good.

• 41:03Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it was really good.

• 41:05November Kelly?

  I mean, it looks like a fried ravioli. I don't know what I expected, but like, I don't, I don't want this. I, I don't.

• 41:11Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, you do.

• 41:12November Kelly?

  No, this is like white boy falafel. This is horrifying. No.

• 41:15Liam McAnderson?

  You know what food, Roz? I'm surprised you don't eat more of is falafel. I feel like you would fuck with some good falafel.

• 41:21Justin Roczniak?

  No, I like falafel. I'm just not usually in a position to acquire falafel easily.

• 41:26November Kelly?

  You, you are in the halal cart capital of the Western Hemisphere and you don't have.

• 41:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. Guess what? The halal, the, the two halal carts next nearest me are like a half a mile.

• 41:38November Kelly?

  Oh, the one at the mosque?

• 41:39Justin Roczniak?

  The what? Yeah, the good one, the good one over at the American Institution for Islamic Charitable Projects. Yeah.

• 41:45November Kelly?

  This is how Aleah was able to dox you is because you triangulated your position perfectly with two halal carts.

• 41:54Liam McAnderson?

  And the peacekeeper is coming now.

• 41:57Justin Roczniak?

  Three, three halal carts.

• 41:59Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, otherwise it's just a, it's just a line otherwise, right?

• 42:05Justin Roczniak?

  So, yeah, um.

• 42:07November Kelly?

  No, it's fully not. If you say I'm half a mile from point A and point B, you draw a circle around point A, you draw a circle around point B that has an intersection that like.

• 42:15Liam McAnderson?

  All right, fine. I'll say it. Roz's whole address is.

• 42:20Justin Roczniak?

  So, St. Louis, Missouri, you, well, Missouri, you can, you can see the arch. You could go see some significant architecture like the Wainwright Building here.

• 42:30November Kelly?

  It does.

• 42:30Justin Roczniak?

  The, the skyscraper that was the skyscraper and still is.

• 42:34November Kelly?

  Mm-hmm. We've talked about it before many times.

• 42:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:37Liam McAnderson?

  You can go see the Blues play.

• 42:38Justin Roczniak?

  There's the Hooters across the street from it, but not in this picture.

• 42:41November Kelly?

  It gave the world, it gave the world, uh, the new American Gothic, which is the, this couple. Um.

• 42:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, yes. You could, you, you can go see some racism.

• 42:51November Kelly?

  That's a, that's a, what is, is that a Sig like P230? Like, what the fuck is she cooking with that?

• 43:00Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, racism.

• 43:01November Kelly?

  It might be a P230.

• 43:02Liam McAnderson?

  Probably a cross on a black couple's lawn, frankly, but.

• 43:04November Kelly?

  That's, that's, that's, that's too cool of a gun to be handled by that racist of a woman, I think.

• 43:09Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. See, this is why, uh, this was in, in, in, this was a, a people threatening a peaceful Black Lives Matter protest. And I'm here to say, we should have armed Black Lives Matter protesters with, uh, with, with 50 cal sniper.

• 43:22November Kelly?

  Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's like, again, the kind of impossibility of, uh, organized, don't worry, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Uh, it's just crazy that nothing happened. Um.

• 43:33Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 43:35Liam McAnderson?

  Give me a 50 cal, I'll, I'll be responsible with it.

• 43:38Justin Roczniak?

  You could go see Union Station. You can go see the last piece of Penn Station over here.

• 43:44November Kelly?

  Oh, that seems sick mowing.

• 43:46Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, they, they mow that lawn really good. I haven't been there though, so I can't. Maybe this was a publicity photo. Uh, what else? You go see the City Museum and get stuck in a coil?

• 43:56November Kelly?

  What? Excuse me?

• 43:58Justin Roczniak?

  So the St. Louis City Museum is a very strange place built by a very strange man.

• 44:05Liam McAnderson?

  Ah.

• 44:06Justin Roczniak?

  Um, and it's like a bunch of like, you know, kinetic sculptures and outsider art and a bunch of weird stuff. They got a whole floor that's just terracotta from demolished buildings. They got a whole floor that's like, um, you know, they have, uh, they have, they have a 10 story slide. They have a five story slide. They have a, a place where kids can go crawl under the floor and get stuck there. Um, they have.

• 44:31Liam McAnderson?

  So it's just a, it's just the, of the booby trap jungles of Vietnam.

• 44:35Justin Roczniak?

  God, there's so many ways a kid could get hurt everywhere in there.

• 44:40Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Bring your kids to the City Museum.

• 44:43Justin Roczniak?

  No, it's great. Yeah. There's an outdoor section where you crawl through like coils in order to get into a fighter jet. That's like perched precariously on a, on a thing. Um, yeah, the City Museum is like, they got like an indoor, like, there's so many ways to injure yourself in there. You know what else they have? Bars. Um.

• 45:03November Kelly?

  Incredible. Uh, this is maybe the greatest city on earth.

• 45:06Justin Roczniak?

  Oh my God, it was so good. Um, it was so good going to the City Museum. I, I'm a great fan. Um.

• 45:13November Kelly?

  So I was.

• 45:14Justin Roczniak?

  Pictures in here.

• 45:15November Kelly?

  Yeah, I was distracted looking at airsoft guns. Uh, I'm because I'm normal.

• 45:20Justin Roczniak?

  There's a school bus on a roof that's half perched on the outside.

• 45:25November Kelly?

  Cool.

• 45:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Um, yeah, that's the main thing in Missouri, I think, is the city museum. Everything else sucks.

• 45:33November Kelly?

  All right. Summarized perfectly.

• 45:36Justin Roczniak?

  Summarized, yeah. Oh, and also St. Louis Union Station is a bizarre, incredible architectural space, which I never experienced anything like it in my life. Just, uh, you think there's no American art nouveau, uh, that knocked my.

• 45:49November Kelly?

  Get a dickhead.

• 45:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that was a mind blowing thing to go into. Anyway, so Missouri, it's a mixed bag.

• 45:58Justin Roczniak?

  But now I must ask, what is Times Beach?

• 46:02November Kelly?

  I recognize this, this photograph from the map we saw in slide one.

• 46:06Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, so the idea of Times Beach, this is a fantastic vacation destination right by the scenic Merrimack River.

• 46:15November Kelly?

  Which they've misspelled in the thing, or unless it's the spelling changes every time you look at it.

• 46:20Justin Roczniak?

  That could be the case, yeah.

• 46:21Liam McAnderson?

  I mean, this looks so, this looks not, not bad. I mean, this looks like some of the campgrounds in Cape May, but.

• 46:28November Kelly?

  Very, very ominous photo that they've used on that ad, though. It's like, come and, come and buy, uh, this, you know, get a time share in this horrifying location.

• 46:38Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 46:39Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I've been to Agglest, New Jersey. Yeah, go ahead.

• 46:42Justin Roczniak?

  This is sort of a largely auto oriented resort town, right? On the beautiful Merrimack River. And this is based on a simple deal with the St. Louis Times, right?

• 46:54November Kelly?

  Why?

• 46:55Justin Roczniak?

  Pay $10 down and $2.50 monthly. And for the low price of only $67.50 total.

• 47:05Justin Roczniak?

  You get a 20 by 100 foot lot and also a six months, six month newspaper subscription.

• 47:11November Kelly?

  Oh, they were desperate, huh?

• 47:13Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I'm so I assume that just like the guy who owns the newspaper because it was just a guy then. Oh, I guess it is a guy now again, because it's just Jeff Bezos. I just was like, also, I have a real estate development. Please, please help me.

• 47:26November Kelly?

  Yeah. And so is the idea then, when you say auto, like an, like an auto focused thing, that you drive like an RV or like a trailer?

• 47:36Liam McAnderson?

  A 1925 RV.

• 47:37Justin Roczniak?

  It's 1925. Yeah, my, you drive your jalopy out to Times Beach, which is about, I think, 20, 25 miles away from downtown St. Louis.

• 47:47November Kelly?

  Okay. And then, so you drive there, it takes you four hours.

• 47:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 47:51November Kelly?

  All of you get like hernias and sciatica from the suspension.

• 47:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 47:55November Kelly?

  And, and then you, with your own two hands, you being, you know, the silent generation, build a vacation house for yourself. And then as you put the last nail in, a newspaper thrown by the paper boy, which they used to have back then, hits the house and the whole thing collapses.

• 48:13Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 48:14November Kelly?

  Gotcha.

• 48:15Justin Roczniak?

  Most of the houses when the development was built were built on stilts because the Merrimack River likes to flood.

• 48:21Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, this is getting better and better. I'm sure this won't come up again.

• 48:24Justin Roczniak?

  But I was, anyway. So, you know, admittedly, you know, okay, this is a great deal because you get a plot of land where you build your house and a newspaper subscription, which is worth about the same because the economy was weird.

• 48:43Justin Roczniak?

  And this, this starts off pretty good, right? This was a, a deal a lot of people took up. Uh, this is 1925, right? Bad stuff started happening pretty quickly.

• 48:53Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, it's 1925 in Missouri, dude.

• 48:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, the Great Depression means no one can buy a vacation house. And then after the Great Depression, of course, you got the war, which means no one can afford the gasoline to go out to their vacation.

• 49:07Liam McAnderson?

  Well, they can't have it.

• 49:08Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, there's, uh, there, there's, there's just, uh, there's just rationing. So over a long period of time, you know, especially as travel patterns change after the war, this town goes into a steep decline. It's mostly like lower middle class permanent residents. By the time our story starts in 1971, there's not many people and there's not much to do in Times Beach.

• 49:31November Kelly?

  Hmm. Just one kid throwing newspapers at empty houses.

• 49:36Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly, exactly. It's like, damn, why did we leave the contract going that long? No, The Times had been bought by the Post Dispatch.

• 49:45Liam McAnderson?

  I just put together that it's called Times Beach because it's presumably named for the St. Louis Times.

• 49:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 49:50November Kelly?

  Oh, that's smart. Okay, I would never have thought of that. Okay, sure.

• 49:54Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that's why Roz is the showrunner and you and I are just heckling him.

• 49:58November Kelly?

  Hmm hmm.

• 50:03Justin Roczniak?

  Hi, it's Justin. So this is a commercial for the podcast that you're already listening to. People are annoyed by these, so let me get to the point. We have this thing called Patreon, right? The deal is you give us two bucks a month and we give you an extra episode once a month. Sometimes it's a little inconsistent, but you know, it's two bucks. You get what you pay for. It also gets you our full back catalog of bonus episodes so you can learn about exciting topics like guns, pickup trucks, or pickup trucks with guns on them. The money we raise through Patreon goes to making sure that the only ad you hear on this podcast is this one.

• 50:46Justin Roczniak?

  Anyway, that's something to consider if you have two bucks to spare each month. Join at patreon.com/typod. Do it if you want, or don't. It's your decision and we respect that. Back to the show.

• 51:07Justin Roczniak?

  So in the meantime, on the other side of the state in Verona, Missouri, there's a chemical plant owned by Hoffman Taft.

• 51:14November Kelly?

  Oh no, are we gonna have to do, are we gonna have to do Oh Chem again?

• 51:17Justin Roczniak?

  I'm not doing too much of it.

• 51:19November Kelly?

  Thank you.

• 51:21Justin Roczniak?

  Hoffman Taft was producing strategically important chemicals for the military, namely Agent Orange.

• 51:28November Kelly?

  Fuck. Oh, cool. Okay. I'm sure this won't have a kind of like moral injury that kind of leaks out into the soil of not just Vietnam, but also in a metaphorical sense, the United States, right? And literal sense.

• 51:43Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, hold that thought. Um.

• 51:45November Kelly?

  Oh, boy.

• 51:46Justin Roczniak?

  But this is a relatively flexible facility, right? It had some extra capacity. So this company, Hoffman Taft, leased some of the space to Northeastern Pharmaceuticals and Chemicals Company.

• 52:01Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah, the shit that the Joker fell into. Yeah.

• 52:03November Kelly?

  It's it's so cool that if you're like a chemistry graduate, right? This is one of the two kinds of companies you can go and work for. You can go and work for the like, we are poisoning Vietnamese children company. Or you can go and work for the nice civilian, we are poisoning American children.

• 52:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, well, French children, but yes.

• 52:23November Kelly?

  It's like, what do we do here at like Incorporated Petrochemicals? Well, mostly we like, we get a paintbrush and we based every toaster sold with a thick layer of hexavalent chromium. So that if you touch it, you get cancer and die. I'm not entirely sure why we do this, but we kind of, you know, it's good business.

• 52:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it looks nicer.

• 52:45Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, it does.

• 52:46Justin Roczniak?

  The chrome is shiny.

• 52:49November Kelly?

  Yeah, 50 years later, you get boomers complaining like, why don't the toasters look shiny anymore? Everyone I know died of cancer.

• 52:56Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, so they, we're gonna do the episode one day on the company that made everybody stupid that Ross and I have been to. Speaking of chemical processes.

• 53:04Justin Roczniak?

  So the Northeastern Pharmaceuticals and Chemicals Company, or NEPCO, right? They they start occupying the space in 1969. They were going to use the facility to make this guy here on the top, right? Which is hexachlorophene.

• 53:22November Kelly?

  That sounds bad. I'm not, I'm not thrilled about any of the syllables in that.

• 53:26Justin Roczniak?

  Hexachlorophene is actually manufactured in a similar process to Agent Orange, but it's different. Right? It's an antibacterial chemical which was used in soaps and toothpaste and disinfectants, right?

• 53:40Liam McAnderson?

  Okay, all right.

• 53:41Justin Roczniak?

  And then they found out later.

• 53:42Liam McAnderson?

  We put this in your body.

• 53:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they found out later it was extremely highly toxic. And if some of these products were manufactured wrong, it would cause severe brain damage. So in 1972, products containing this chemical were pulled from the market. I believe right after thirty six infants in France were killed by improperly produced talcum powder.

• 54:08November Kelly?

  Oh, Jesus, man.

• 54:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So anyway, the process for making hexachlorophene involves some big organic chemistry nerd shit where you react formaldehyde with two, four, five trichlorophenol. And then there's a bunch of complicated stuff with the reaction that happens and you get your hexachlorophene, but you get a fun byproduct called two, three, seven, eight tetrachloro dibenzo p-dioxin.

• 54:36November Kelly?

  Not thrilled with the last two syllables of that in particular. I love being, I love being a perfectly innocent and morally neutral civilian and going to work and reacting formaldehyde with two, four, five trichlorophenol to create two, three, seven, eight tetrachloro dibenzo p-dioxin.

• 54:55Liam McAnderson?

  So I bet this kills weeds really, really good.

• 54:59November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah, no question. Makes a toaster shiny as fuck as well.

• 55:03Liam McAnderson?

  This is like my dad's mom insisting on using bootleg DDT well into the nineties.

• 55:08November Kelly?

  You've got to use this on the clear coat on like a car because it shines like nothing else.

• 55:12Justin Roczniak?

  There's no eagles around. It's fine to use DDT.

• 55:19Justin Roczniak?

  So anyway, yeah, this big, long word, we're just gonna call it TCDD for a while. Of the several chemicals known as dioxins, this is the most toxic one, right? Um, it's pretty bad, uh, but mostly it's bad if it's in like relatively large quantities. You know, but what constitutes a large dose varies widely by species. I mean, you know, because there's like instances where, you know, some animals just keel over and die instantly and others are like, you know, they shake it off. I mean, this, it's a weird, it's sort of a Calvin ball kind of toxin.

• 55:56November Kelly?

  Oh, good.

• 55:58Liam McAnderson?

  I love to hear the phrase Calvin ball toxin.

• 56:01November Kelly?

  If there's one adjective I want to associate with my chemical toxin, it's unpredictable.

• 56:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, very unpredictable.

• 56:06November Kelly?

  It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's very fatal.

• 56:11Justin Roczniak?

  This was also present as a contaminant in the production of Agent Orange.

• 56:18November Kelly?

  Wait, so wait, so there's contaminants, there's contaminants in my agent's orange.

• 56:22Justin Roczniak?

  Well, yes, because. Arguably, this is the worst chemical in Agent Orange.

• 56:28November Kelly?

  Oh, Jesus. Okay.

• 56:29Justin Roczniak?

  You know, the other two were, you know, they're, they're, they're defoliants. They're not necessarily designed to hurt people.

• 56:35November Kelly?

  I always forget, based on the, you know, wanting to beat Robert McNamara to death with my bare hands thing, uh, that they weren't, like Agent Orange was primarily not intended to, uh, give a bunch of children birth defects and stuff.

• 56:49Justin Roczniak?

  Right. Yes. That was, that was not, that was not the intent, the intent of it. It just happened and largely, probably because of everyone in Vietnam ingested huge amounts of this particular contaminant in Agent Orange. But since, you know, the, the, the hexachlorophene was not intended as a defoliant to be used in war. It was intended to be used on soaps and, um, you know, talcum powder and toothpaste. Of course, they tried to get rid of as much of it as possible. Um, so Nepico simply distilled the hexachlorophene.

• 57:26November Kelly?

  Oh, right. It's the world's worst whiskey.

• 57:28Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. Um, this of course leaves a nasty oily residue on the bottom of the still that's full of the TCDD. Um, you know, and in chemical processing, we call this horrible oily residue bottoms.

• 57:41November Kelly?

  I mean, yeah, we've all known some horrible toxic oily bottoms. It's.

• 57:48Justin Roczniak?

  So Nepico originally dealt with these bottoms by sending them to an incinerator in Louisiana.

• 57:55November Kelly?

  Yeah. Give us another couple of pride months under Trump. They'll be trying that shit again.

• 58:00Justin Roczniak?

  This was expensive and time consuming though. They wanted a better, cheaper way to handle all the bottoms. So, uh, they contract with the Independent Petroleum Corporation. Right. Which is a chemical supply company, but they don't actually deal with waste oils themselves. So they in turn subcontracted this job out to a man.

• 58:23November Kelly?

  Just a guy?

• 58:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Russell Martin Bliss.

• 58:27November Kelly?

  Okay. Well.

• 58:28Justin Roczniak?

  He was a man with a truck and a shed with some tanks in it.

• 58:32November Kelly?

  Listen, if a guy with a truck can't handle some bottoms, what is America coming to these days?

• 58:37Justin Roczniak?

  This is a good point. Yeah. Now, based on it's always sunny, I believe the guy in the truck may be the bottom.

• 58:46Justin Roczniak?

  So Bliss picked up the still bottoms and he brought them to his facility in Frontenac, Missouri, apparently unaware that what he had picked up was much nastier than his usual line of business, which was used motor and transmission oils.

• 59:02Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, just gotta kick this out the back of the truck, huh?

• 59:04November Kelly?

  This, this being pre-woke, you just poured that on the ground, you know?

• 59:09Justin Roczniak?

  Well, there was at least one instance where a truck came into his property overweight and got pulled over by the police and they just, yeah, they dumped, they dumped the, uh, the, the waste, they dumped the still bottoms directly onto Bliss's property.

• 59:26Liam McAnderson?

  Wow.

• 59:27Justin Roczniak?

  Covered it up with some dirt.

• 59:28Liam McAnderson?

  Fuck you.

• 59:30Justin Roczniak?

  And I believe the farm across the street, uh, had 70 chickens die and one dog.

• 59:35Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 59:37Justin Roczniak?

  So anyway, he dumped the, uh, the horrible dioxins into the main tank.

• 59:42Liam McAnderson?

  Great.

• 59:42Justin Roczniak?

  With all the other waste motor oil and transmission oil and the, there was some sense of environmental, uh, responsibility here, cause, uh, Russell Bliss did keep transformer oil in a separate tank, cause that was full of PCBs, but this, nah, this one went in the main tank.

• 1:00:02November Kelly?

  You, you get the sense that nobody told the guy shit or he wasn't paying attention if they did.

• 1:00:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I, I, I do get the, uh, the sense that, um, it was never adequately conveyed to this guy how bad the stuff was, cause it was also not really adequately known at the time how bad the stuff was.

• 1:00:19November Kelly?

  Right. Oh, boy. I hope there's nothing like that now.

• 1:00:22Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, don't worry about that.

• 1:00:25Justin Roczniak?

  So here's a question, what can you do with waste oil?

• 1:00:28November Kelly?

  Um, refry some ravioli.

• 1:00:31Justin Roczniak?

  No, uh, don't do that.

• 1:00:33Liam McAnderson?

  You can use it to power your, uh, eighties Mercedes.

• 1:00:39Justin Roczniak?

  If it's multi-fuel, maybe, yeah. So in some cases, you get this big mishmash of waste oil, right? You can sometimes send it to a oil refinery and they just redistill it and they make new oil with it. Certain kinds of new oil. Obviously, you're not getting everything out of there unless it's a very advanced facility. This is how they do like multi-product pipelines, right? You know, where you have like a pipeline that goes, well, there's a pipeline that comes from like the Gulf Coast, goes all the way up to like Maine or so. It's a product pipeline and like, okay, on this day, we're sending jet fuel. On this day, we're sending heating oil. On this day, we're sending fuel oil, so on and so forth.

• 1:01:20Justin Roczniak?

  There's obviously a big mishmash at the end, you know, that gets stored in a big tank. It's full of all kinds of grades of oil and they just send it back to the refinery and distill it a second time. I had no idea how that worked until like a couple of months ago and I was astonished that you could just do that. Anyway, so in other cases, you just burn the waste oil, right? Either in an incinerator or as Bliss is doing, just selling all this as heating oil.

• 1:01:48November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 1:01:49Justin Roczniak?

  But there's a problem with that, which is that you only have the option to sell it as heating oil in the winter, right? No one needs it in the summer. But in Missouri, there's a lot of dust. So especially on the many unpaved roads. So what do you do? You take the waste oil, you put it in a big truck and you spray it on the road and that keeps the dust down for a few months.

• 1:02:11November Kelly?

  Okay, sure. Yeah, I mean, this is a, that's such a like 50s sort of like, what would we do without petrochemicals?

• 1:02:18Liam McAnderson?

  It's easy, greasy and fun.

• 1:02:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Justin Roczniak?

  I mean, you have a convoy.

• 1:02:23Liam McAnderson?

  Slide.

• 1:02:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, but convoy going down the street. First you have the, uh, the water spraying truck that, you know, is the street sweeper that, you know, shoves all the toxins directly into the nearest river. Then after that, you have the DDT truck that sprays every single service. And then after that, you have the waste oil truck.

• 1:02:43Justin Roczniak?

  So this is, this is similar to, uh, McAdam pavement, but it's greasier, right? And for Bliss, this was free, fun and easy.

• 1:02:54November Kelly?

  It's a safe and legal thrill. Oil up those roads.

• 1:02:58Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. People paid him to take the oil and then people paid him to spray the oil that he had been paid to receive on their roads. Amazing. This is the second greatest grift we've, we've, we've talked about on this podcast.

• 1:03:14November Kelly?

  The circular economy.

• 1:03:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So Bliss owns his own farm. He has dirt roads and he has a large supply of waste oil. So it's kind of like, okay, why not? Uh, let's give it a shot. Uh, one application on his farm was sufficient for several months of dust control. And apparently he started this practice sometime before receiving the TCDD from Nepico, right? But his reputation starts growing. Um, he finds himself in a nice new side business, namely spraying down the roads, paths and interiors of local equestrian facilities.

• 1:03:51November Kelly?

  Giving the horses cancer for fun and profits.

• 1:03:55Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, man.

• 1:03:56Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, they don't live long enough for that.

• 1:04:00November Kelly?

  Oh, no.

• 1:04:02Justin Roczniak?

  So he starts with Shenandoah Stables of Moscow Mills, Missouri.

• 1:04:07Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, Moscow Mills, famous, famous home of knockoff, uh, outlet mall Stalin. Hmm. You know what? Actually, I want to give one more thing to Missouri, which is that Branson slaps.

• 1:04:19Justin Roczniak?

  You go to the, you go to the, the, the Moscow Mills G U M outlet.

• 1:04:26Justin Roczniak?

  Fans of Soviet department stores are going to like that one.

• 1:04:29Liam McAnderson?

  Hold on, Ross.

• 1:04:32Justin Roczniak?

  It's, it's there next to, um, uh, Saks on the Prospect.

• 1:04:38Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. Anyway.

• 1:04:39Liam McAnderson?

  Doing great.

• 1:04:40Justin Roczniak?

  So this is the 26th of May, 1971. This is when our story really starts. The owners of this equestrian facility were Judy Piet and Frank Hampel. They pay him the princely sum of $150 to spray 2,000 gallons of waste oil on the floor of their indoor equestrian arena.

• 1:05:01Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no.

• 1:05:02November Kelly?

  Just like, hey, I want you to kill all my horses.

• 1:05:04Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I, uh, I'm gonna sabotage the Derby from inside.

• 1:05:09November Kelly?

  I just, I don't understa- I'm not, I'm not a horse girl in that sense. I, I don't understand.

• 1:05:17Liam McAnderson?

  What do you mean in that sense? No, no, no, no, no. Pause. What do you mean in that sense?

• 1:05:20November Kelly?

  Don't, don't worry about that. I don't understand. I don't understand how having a big oil slick on the floor of the thing makes the horse spectating thing a more enjoyable achievement. Because surely the horses are like slipping and it's like, it's horrible.

• 1:05:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, there's no dust. You're only doing a little bit of oil.

• 1:05:39November Kelly?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:05:40Liam McAnderson?

  So it's not a giant slip and slide full of.

• 1:05:43Justin Roczniak?

  No, it's not a giant slip and slide. It's, it's, uh, it's just to keep the dust down.

• 1:05:47November Kelly?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:05:48Justin Roczniak?

  But this oil seemed unlike the oil that Bliss had used himself. It was thicker. It was darker. It left a horrible smell. But the smell did dissipate after a while, but the effects did not.

• 1:06:00November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:01Justin Roczniak?

  So the first sign that something was off was there were hundreds of dead birds discovered in the arena the following day. They had all keeled over and fallen from the rafters.

• 1:06:11November Kelly?

  Oh, God. Well, we'll just sweep those out of the way and bring on the horses.

• 1:06:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:06:16November Kelly?

  Fuck off. No. What?

• 1:06:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:06:19November Kelly?

  Don't horse people like, like their horses? Isn't that like a? Yeah, like.

• 1:06:25Justin Roczniak?

  So there was a horse show at this location.

• 1:06:28Liam McAnderson?

  Not for long.

• 1:06:29Justin Roczniak?

  Soon after the spraying. And this particular show was said by the, uh, participants and the audience to be remarkably free of flies.

• 1:06:39November Kelly?

  Ah, I mean, it's working so well. Smells awful, though.

• 1:06:41Justin Roczniak?

  Then the horses started to become ill with anorexia, diarrhea, abdominal bloating, bad balance, rashes, so on and so forth. And then they all started to keel over and die.

• 1:06:54November Kelly?

  In fairness, these are all also conditions of a perfectly healthy horse that thought it saw a snake.

• 1:07:00Justin Roczniak?

  This is true, yes.

• 1:07:01November Kelly?

  A horse is not a resilient animal. One reason why I identify with him a bit, but like, even still, you'd think this might be a sign that something is wrong.

• 1:07:13Justin Roczniak?

  Poor Snuffles thought of ants and died.

• 1:07:18Justin Roczniak?

  There were also 11 cats and four dogs who fell to the ravages of the TCDD. And then Judy P. At six year old daughter fell ill, who was frequently, you know, sort of use the equestrian arena as a sandbox in the off days.

• 1:07:35November Kelly?

  Oh, God, at least if you're riding the horse, you're above the the worst of it. You're not getting like skin contact for a lot of it.

• 1:07:42Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you're not getting skin contact. You're not like, you're six years old. You're like licking it and shit, you know?

• 1:07:48November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Liam McAnderson?

  It's lead based paint. It's not even lead based. You'd be lucky to have lead based paint.

• 1:07:52November Kelly?

  Dioxin based paint.

• 1:07:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:55Liam McAnderson?

  But at least the toasters are shining.

• 1:07:58Justin Roczniak?

  So in the end, 65 horses died or were destroyed.

• 1:08:02Liam McAnderson?

  Or were destroyed doing a lot of work there.

• 1:08:05November Kelly?

  That's like, that's like a kind of minor civil war skirmish kind of numbers, you know, like the Yankee artillery killed 65 horses, 11 cats, four dogs and a six year old girl, like.

• 1:08:17Justin Roczniak?

  The six year old girl lived.

• 1:08:18November Kelly?

  Okay, well.

• 1:08:20Justin Roczniak?

  So it's not immediately clear of the cause of this rapid illness. The Center for Disease Control got involved. They were completely stumped. You know, is this some kind of localized pan-species epidemic, right?

• 1:08:33November Kelly?

  Oh, boy. Okay.

• 1:08:34Justin Roczniak?

  They took some soil samples, but they couldn't find anything particularly wrong, right? There was some elevated levels of PCBs and trichlorophenols, but not enough to cause these sorts of problems because those were a little bit better understood at the time. In the meantime, Russell Bliss went on to spray two more horse facilities with similar results.

• 1:08:57November Kelly?

  Oh, Jesus, this guy was just running around killing horses.

• 1:09:01Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, except for some reason his own.

• 1:09:04November Kelly?

  It's like he's. Killing more horses than like a 1920s movie director.

• 1:09:09Justin Roczniak?

  What I've sort of, what I think sort of happened here is that as he, you know, cause he owns a waste oil business. Obviously he's getting more waste oil in every day, not just from, you know, the horrible, uh, Agent Orange and Soap Factory. Um, so like the, the concentration of dioxins in the waste oil he's spraying changes over time. Cause he only got those dioxins for like a year, I want to say.

• 1:09:36November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:37Justin Roczniak?

  But he went on to spray two more horse facilities with similar results and the owners caught on. They began the long process of, oh God, we gotta remove all the topsoil.

• 1:09:47November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:48Justin Roczniak?

  The entire Equestrian facility.

• 1:09:50November Kelly?

  What are you gonna do with this incredibly contaminated earth as well?

• 1:09:54Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, I have a great idea for that.

• 1:09:56November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 1:09:56Justin Roczniak?

  Some of it was actually disposed of properly in like a hazardous waste landfill or incinerated. But of course, some of it was also used for landscaping in a residential neighborhood.

• 1:10:07November Kelly?

  Okay, sure. Yeah, why not? Uh, what's this playground made out of? Don't worry about it. Agent Orange, kind of.

• 1:10:15Justin Roczniak?

  Probably fine, probably fine. Uh, Bliss also took smaller jobs. He, he started spraying like driveways and parking lots. He was spraying mobile home parks, other miscellaneous sites, but his biggest contract was yet to come. So his dust control contact, his dust control methods had been remarkably effective and very cheap.

• 1:10:37November Kelly?

  And this is the guy, you, you're like, I don't want dust. You call this guy and his, his, uh, Chevrolet Kodiak of the apocalypse.

• 1:10:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, yes. He shows up in sort of a Mad Max vehicle.

• 1:10:50November Kelly?

  Five, two, seven, six, six, six, six.

• 1:10:53Justin Roczniak?

  Hell, shit.

• 1:10:55November Kelly?

  Who wrote this shit? Cormac McCarthy?

• 1:10:59November Kelly?

  Yeah, let me just call Judge Reinhold's waste oil service. What the fuck?

• 1:11:05Justin Roczniak?

  So the town of Times Beach had fallen onto hard times. They had never paved their roads. Yeah, hard times beach. They had never paved their roads. There was a long, dry summer coming up and several afterwards. What do they do? In 1972, they hire Bliss for the princely sum of $2,400 to spray 160,000 gallons of waste oil over a period of four years. He's going to come back each summer to reapply the waste oil. That goes until 1976. And Times Beach's dust problems were a thing of the past.

• 1:11:44November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 1:11:45Justin Roczniak?

  In the meantime, the owners of the horse ranches were getting angry. Judy Peatt and Frank Hampel were preparing a lawsuit against Bliss, but they don't have the evidence they need, right? So they start borrowing cars and wearing wigs to tail Bliss's trucks to determine exactly where all this waste oil is being sprayed and logging everything for 15 whole months.

• 1:12:11Liam McAnderson?

  That's pretty badass, honestly.

• 1:12:12November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's kind of cool. I'm, I'm, I'm the environmental crimes P I, you know?

• 1:12:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Among these sites they stake out is Times Beach. And in the meantime, it's a bad time for our friends at Nepico, right? The FDA bans hexachlorophene in consumer products in 1972.

• 1:12:34November Kelly?

  Now you kill 36 French kids and all of a sudden.

• 1:12:39Liam McAnderson?

  Suddenly you're a villain, right?

• 1:12:40November Kelly?

  Everybody's woke.

• 1:12:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, everyone's woke.

• 1:12:42Liam McAnderson?

  Everybody's got opinions.

• 1:12:44Justin Roczniak?

  They had to reformulate Dial Soap.

• 1:12:49November Kelly?

  And you're, and suddenly you're like, this doesn't get my kid as clean. And you're like, yeah, that's because of like the fucking tyrants at the FDA deciding that it's not a worthwhile price to pay to just kill a bunch of French children.

• 1:13:04Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly, exactly. You know, this is, this is, this is woke gone mad.

• 1:13:10Justin Roczniak?

  So there's no market for Nepico's product anymore. There are one single product. So they shut down and a company called Syntex moves into their part of the plant Verona.

• 1:13:21November Kelly?

  Again, Callum McCarthy, but less subtle, like.

• 1:13:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Now, the Center for Disease Control was, was still working to find the actual cause of the death of all the horses and the birds and so on and so forth.

• 1:13:34November Kelly?

  Raising, raising hand. Uh, is, is this the CDC? Because it looks like somewhere that just got hit with Agent Orange.

• 1:13:41Justin Roczniak?

  This is the CDC. Yes. I think the building was relatively new at this point.

• 1:13:45November Kelly?

  Jesus Christ, newer than like grass?

• 1:13:50Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. It might be, uh, it might be, uh, maybe they covered it in hay because they're trying to get it to grow fast. Maybe they, I don't know exactly what's going on here.

• 1:13:58Liam McAnderson?

  It's the Centers for Disease Control, not the Centers for, uh.

• 1:14:00Justin Roczniak?

  It's, I'm doing. Not the Centers for Beautiful Lawns.

• 1:14:04November Kelly?

  I guess I, I, I'm doing the like Stephen King, the stand thing, but instead of being like, what are they doing in there? They're probably like, you know, uh, doing like secret experiments and shit. I'm like, uh, my objection is the landscaping.

• 1:14:17Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. It's like.

• 1:14:18November Kelly?

  Maybe this is where they dumped the like topsoil.

• 1:14:23Justin Roczniak?

  So they're still trying to find the actual cause. They'd taken soil samples from all the stables. They were seeing some strange results, right? Their initial theory was some kind of contamination from trichlorophenols, right? Which are well understood, used in herbicides, insecticides. To confirm this, they applied samples of the soil to rabbits.

• 1:14:44November Kelly?

  Oh, thank you for your service.

• 1:14:47Justin Roczniak?

  Thank, thank you for your service, Bugs. Um, they developed irritations on their skin as expected, right? And then two of them unexpectedly died of liver disease.

• 1:14:59November Kelly?

  Oh, that's certain right for drinking on the job, you know?

• 1:15:04Liam McAnderson?

  We do that.

• 1:15:05November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah, shit. Sorry. My apologies to the alcoholism community. I was just trying to get bits off and I wasn't thinking that hard.

• 1:15:14Justin Roczniak?

  We prefer to be called the people of drinks.

• 1:15:20Justin Roczniak?

  That's what the pod and podcaster.

• 1:15:22Liam McAnderson?

  Keep it moving, Roz.

• 1:15:24Justin Roczniak?

  Clearly, something else was at work here. So the CDC started looking for dioxins.

• 1:15:30Liam McAnderson?

  Not to barely, I'm sorry. Does this say 31,000 parts per billion?

• 1:15:34Justin Roczniak?

  That's not, you know, it's.

• 1:15:36Liam McAnderson?

  That's a lot of parts, motherfucker.

• 1:15:38November Kelly?

  No, not great, not terrible.

• 1:15:40Justin Roczniak?

  Well, yeah, think about it this way. It's only 31 parts per million.

• 1:15:44Liam McAnderson?

  I am flabbergasted. That's a lot of parts.

• 1:15:48November Kelly?

  Clearly, however much it is, it's enough to kill a horse.

• 1:15:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, so.

• 1:15:52Liam McAnderson?

  Not a six year old, though.

• 1:15:54Justin Roczniak?

  The CDC tried looking for the dioxins and what they found was a horrifying amount of, yeah, 31,000 parts per billion of 2378 tetrachloro dibenzopedioxine. This was nasty stuff. This was a lot.

• 1:16:11November Kelly?

  Horses weaker than a six year old.

• 1:16:13Liam McAnderson?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:16:14November Kelly?

  To confirm, get that on the record. Yeah.

• 1:16:16Justin Roczniak?

  As I said, there's like a weird way this affects different species of animals.

• 1:16:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, you could just say horses are pussies, Roz.

• 1:16:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, well, well, yeah, you know, I honestly, though, kind of.

• 1:16:28Liam McAnderson?

  I too have spooked at my own shadow.

• 1:16:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So in the meantime, there are also veterans returning from the Vietnam War, right? And they were complaining of various diseases. Many of them attributed these diseases to their exposure to large quantities of Agent Orange.

• 1:16:46November Kelly?

  I mean, correctly, but also not just that. I feel like I've said this before about like Gulf War Syndrome as well, that like, if you were in the US military up until about like, I don't know, 2010 and probably later in some applications, your like immediate supervisor, your commanding officer was almost certainly like a large lump of uranium sculpted to look like a guy.

• 1:17:11Justin Roczniak?

  Pretty much. Yeah, the burn pits are. They're everywhere. Yeah.

• 1:17:14November Kelly?

  Yeah, like everything is coated in like five different horrifying chemicals. Because like weirdly, given that it supplies a whole parallel healthcare system for them, the US government does not consider troops human. So, you know, you get that, you know, get that benefit.

• 1:17:33Justin Roczniak?

  He were exposed to so many horrible chemicals that it's like really hard to isolate the effects of any single one. Yeah.

• 1:17:42November Kelly?

  Oh yeah. It's why there's no like one kind of etiology for Gulf War syndromes because it's fucking like they were, they were like spraying like desert paint on vehicles and like completely enclosed tents. Like shooting you up with experimental like anti nerve gas things.

• 1:18:01Justin Roczniak?

  However shiny.

• 1:18:01November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very shiny. So who fucking knows?

• 1:18:05Justin Roczniak?

  So when the news came down to Judy Piet and Frank Hempel that their horses had been killed by dioxin. They immediately realized, wait, like an Agent Orange. And then after some sleuthing by the CDC, they found the offending chemical plant, which had done business with Bliss, the now defunct Nepico. So, uh, those guys went on the lawsuit despite being nonexistent.

• 1:18:28November Kelly?

  I, I like these. I like this couple. They're like, they're persistent, you know?

• 1:18:33Justin Roczniak?

  Oh yeah. They are, they, they, they are doing a lot of due diligence. They assist the CDC and later the EPA and a lot of this stuff.

• 1:18:40November Kelly?

  The horse people, they might not have cared about the horses enough when they were alive, but once they were dead, you know?

• 1:18:45Justin Roczniak?

  That's a lot of money down the drain, you know?

• 1:18:47November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:48Justin Roczniak?

  Can't even make it into soap anymore because there's.

• 1:18:51November Kelly?

  Jesus.

• 1:18:52Justin Roczniak?

  You can't put the chemicals in the soap anymore.

• 1:18:56Justin Roczniak?

  So with the dioxin, with the locations of dioxin contamination confirmed, the CDC recommended that the state of Missouri get involved in the cleanup. However, with the half life of TDCC and the environment estimated in one year, Missouri opted to just do nothing and let the problem sort of solve itself.

• 1:19:18November Kelly?

  That sounds like Missouri. How many horses can it possibly kill in two years?

• 1:19:21Justin Roczniak?

  My understanding is some of these horse ranches attempted to continue operating and, um.

• 1:19:27November Kelly?

  Oh boy. Okay.

• 1:19:28Justin Roczniak?

  The horses did not last long.

• 1:19:30November Kelly?

  The, the horse ranch that kills your horse instantly?

• 1:19:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:19:34November Kelly?

  Imagine that.

• 1:19:35Justin Roczniak?

  Um, the wheels keep turning, but very, very slowly.

• 1:19:39Liam McAnderson?

  How can they keep turning, Roz? They're horses. They have hooves.

• 1:19:43Justin Roczniak?

  Have you seen the horses in City Skylines?

• 1:19:50Justin Roczniak?

  In 1979, the EPA, which is still only nine years old, they finally get involved.

• 1:19:56November Kelly?

  Which is of course too old to be killed by the TDCC. So.

• 1:20:00Justin Roczniak?

  Apparently, yeah. Um, I think before we continue here, a useful thing to remember is just how bad the damn pollution was back in the seventies. You know, how much it was absolutely fine to like dump all your hazardous waste barrels into a big hole. Just 11 miles south of downtown Louisville.

• 1:20:19Liam McAnderson?

  It gives a shit. It's at the dumpsters.

• 1:20:20November Kelly?

  It's, it's, it's America's Red Barrel Room. Uh, this is where you go if you want to discuss your favorite passwords.

• 1:20:26Justin Roczniak?

  This is, this is the Valley of the Drums.

• 1:20:28Liam McAnderson?

  Sick name.

• 1:20:29Justin Roczniak?

  It's a sick name. Yeah. It's, and it's very descriptive. You think it's, oh, it's like music. No, it's chemicals.

• 1:20:38November Kelly?

  Oh, I've just found a color picture of it and it looks so much worse.

• 1:20:41Justin Roczniak?

  Very yellow. Yeah.

• 1:20:42Liam McAnderson?

  I was gonna say brown, like the Doom three color palette.

• 1:20:44November Kelly?

  No, no, no. It's like you can climb on this video game semiotics yellow.

• 1:20:48Justin Roczniak?

  Well, most of the, uh, most of the defoliated hills you see back here, those have drums buried underneath them, which is why they're defoliated. Um, and then eventually they ran out of space to, you know, dig anymore. So they just started tossing the barrels on top of there. Um, this was a chemical waste dump for a very long time. I think sometime in the seventies, the owner died. Um, then people just kept dumping their barrels there.

• 1:21:13November Kelly?

  Uh, funny story. There's, there's one of these in West London and nobody knows what to do about it. Uh, and that, yeah, it catches fire occasionally.

• 1:21:22Justin Roczniak?

  Do you not have Superfund?

• 1:21:24November Kelly?

  No.

• 1:21:25Justin Roczniak?

  No. Oh my God. Well, yeah.

• 1:21:27November Kelly?

  It's down to like a borough council to decide if they want to do anything about that. I'll make an episode about it.

• 1:21:32Justin Roczniak?

  Would probably say remediation is a good idea there. So yeah, no one knew what kind of horrible chemicals were where. No one knew what half of the horrible chemicals could do to you. Right? It was assumed that if you dumped these chemicals in a hole, it was no longer your problem. But the pollution got bad enough that fucking Richard fucking Milhouse fucking Nixon.

• 1:21:57Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, Nixon's bad.

• 1:22:01Justin Roczniak?

  To create the Environmental Protection Agency.

• 1:22:04Liam McAnderson?

  Also created legal services.

• 1:22:06Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, before we all poisoned ourselves or dissolved ourselves with acid or whatever. So this will provide.

• 1:22:13Liam McAnderson?

  Man.

• 1:22:14Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, yeah, this will provide some context for what's coming next. A former Nepico employee reported to the EPA that the company had covertly disposed of 90 barrels of still bottoms on some guy's farm.

• 1:22:31Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, perfect.

• 1:22:32Justin Roczniak?

  Through this investigation, they also found that Nepico had left a huge tank, also still full of still bottoms on a property of the chemical plant, right? Which no one could figure out how to dispose of because these these dioxins had gotten a bad reputation. You know, this is getting a little bit publicized now. The only way you could get rid of them was through a sort of high temperature incinerator. There was not one in Missouri. There was one in Minnesota that was willing to take it, but no one was willing to allow any of it to cross state lines.

• 1:23:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, yeah, who could blame them?

• 1:23:07Justin Roczniak?

  So this becomes a huge headache for the EPA for a while and they wind up just isolating this tank with a big concrete berm. Just say, no one can go near this.

• 1:23:17Liam McAnderson?

  Just it's a different kind of out of sight, out of mind.

• 1:23:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 1:23:22Liam McAnderson?

  Fire and forget for bizarro world waste, yes.

• 1:23:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, so the EPA decided that along with investigating this, they should probably go revisit all those stables and test the soil there.

• 1:23:35Liam McAnderson?

  Dead, all of them dead, horse is dead, six year old dead, Richard Dixon dead.

• 1:23:41Justin Roczniak?

  The news was pretty bad. Rather than the one year half-life expected, when I say half-life here, I don't mean in the nuclear sense. I mean, the half-life of the chemical sort of exposed to the environment, right? You expect it to sort of, you know, this is the amount of time that it will take for half of the chemical to sort of reduce into more benign compounds, right? They expected a half-life of one year. So after one year, half of it begun, the next year, you know, three quarters of it is gone, the next year, so on and so forth. Rather than the one-year half-life expected, it appeared the rate of contamination had not gone down at all.

• 1:24:21November Kelly?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:24:23Liam McAnderson?

  Good. Okay.

• 1:24:24November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Liam McAnderson?

  I do.

• 1:24:25November Kelly?

  Hmm. Sure.

• 1:24:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So ignoring the problem was not working.

• 1:24:32November Kelly?

  The area that kills horses forever.

• 1:24:35Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's frustrating because I use that strategy so much in life that sometimes it does not work.

• 1:24:44November Kelly?

  Turns out that often the problems remain.

• 1:24:47Justin Roczniak?

  The problems keep going. Yeah. Furthermore, they put together a list of all the potentially contaminated sites in the entire state of Missouri.

• 1:24:55Liam McAnderson?

  It's just the state of Missouri. The Fed diagram's a circle. Yeah.

• 1:24:59Justin Roczniak?

  By 1982, the EPA was ready to begin addressing this issue in an orderly fashion and in accordance with the latest science, which it also indicated that possibly the dioxin was not so bad as long as it was not present in huge quantities like in the stables and arenas, right? There's some threshold here where it's much more benign.

• 1:25:24November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:25Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's not as huge of an issue. So anyway, the Environmental Defense Fund leaked all those internal documents.

• 1:25:33November Kelly?

  I guess you got it, right? But like, did they leak those with the intention of being like, it's fine?

• 1:25:40Justin Roczniak?

  No, no, the opposite.

• 1:25:42November Kelly?

  Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

• 1:25:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, the first on the list of contaminated sites was, of course, Times Beach.

• 1:25:48November Kelly?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:49Justin Roczniak?

  Um, and so the residents are really pissed off by this, right? They've been mired in this stuff for years. They didn't even know about it. They didn't know the government knew about it. What's more, the government doesn't know how toxic it, how toxic it is actually. But it's also, you know, trying to defend against lawsuits over Agent Orange related to the same chemical.

• 1:26:09November Kelly?

  Yeah, like the feds aren't gonna be like, oh, sorry. You know, I, I, I guess now it's our responsibility that you decided instead of paving your roads to just have, uh, Judge Reinhold spray a bunch of like Agent Orange on them.

• 1:26:23Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I, I mean, there's, there's just sort of general outrage that no corrective action was taken. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's a confusing situation to be in because there, there is, again, gonna say there is some evidence by this point that, you know, as long as it's not in a huge concentration, this stuff is not good, but it's not going to kill you.

• 1:26:44November Kelly?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:26:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:45November Kelly?

  Yeah. Yeah, unless you're a horse. Right, you're fucked. You were fucked anyway.

• 1:26:48Justin Roczniak?

  Well, again, 31,000 parts per billion is a lot more than the concentrations we're gonna talk about. Um, so this finally prompts the EPA to get off their asses and do something, which was soil testing. Right? Now, the soil testing in Times Beach indicated that concentrations were as high as 300 parts per billion along all the town's roads, right? Um, this is well below the rate of contamination for the stables, but still above the EPA's new threshold, which had to be developed like right on the spot without all the knowledge of 100 parts per billion, right?

• 1:27:26November Kelly?

  So, so actually not great, not terrible then?

• 1:27:29Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, actually not great, not terrible, yeah. The CDC recommended one part per billion. Um, but this is again, based on nothing. Um, on December 3rd, 1982, these tests were completed and then on December 4th, 1982, the Merrimack River overflowed its banks, reaching 20 feet above the, above the flood stage, completely inundating the town, which of course meant the whole town was evacuated.

• 1:27:57November Kelly?

  So, so sometimes, quite often, I've done it on this episode. I, I, I think ahead too far and I say the thing that's gonna happen and I accidentally fucked the foreshadowing and it really, I'm, I'm sorry to do that. This one, uh, this one blindsided me.

• 1:28:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10November Kelly?

  Because I, you, you, you mentioned the river flooding and I didn't put that together in my head and I'm so glad that I didn't because that was an earnest reaction of, of like horror there and that realization.

• 1:28:23Justin Roczniak?

  It just right after all the testing, flood, everyone's evacuated.

• 1:28:27Liam McAnderson?

  Biblical.

• 1:28:28Justin Roczniak?

  So, no one really knew what to do at this point, right? Uh, the town was flooded, the people were all gone. No one knew how toxic anything really was. No one was acting rationally. The residents just wanted some action, goddammit, right?

• 1:28:42November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:42Justin Roczniak?

  Now, luckily, there was a group inside the EPA called the Chlorinated Dioxins Work Group, right? With direct experience with dioxins.

• 1:28:51November Kelly?

  You wanna be a part of, but yeah, at least they're there.

• 1:28:54Justin Roczniak?

  Far, far more than like anyone else at that point, right? The chairman of this group had an idea. Well, you know, um, if you just pave the roads and add sidewalks, all the contamination's gonna be sealed underneath there. It's gonna be fine.

• 1:29:09November Kelly?

  Just build the town on top of it.

• 1:29:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:29:12Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Oh, it's like, uh, Centralia. Great. Okay. Terrific.

• 1:29:16Justin Roczniak?

  Well, no, Centralia has actual physical problems that result in the, the, the stuff being disturbed frequently. I, I think the paving idea was probably viable, but these guys were never consulted.

• 1:29:27Liam McAnderson?

  Oh.

• 1:29:28Justin Roczniak?

  There were now several agencies with jurisdiction over the emergency because of the flooding, right? The CDC, the EPA, the Army Corps of Engineers, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. They're all complaining at each other. They, they can't get along. Luckily, we have President Ronald Reagan.

• 1:29:48Justin Roczniak?

  He convenes a Times Beach task force with the limited knowledge they have. They come to a reluctant conclusion. Yeah, we're gonna kick everyone out.

• 1:29:57November Kelly?

  Yeah, the tracks.

• 1:29:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Ann M. Gorsuch.

• 1:30:01November Kelly?

  No relation to the Supreme Court? Just, okay.

• 1:30:05Justin Roczniak?

  She, she's her, she's his mother.

• 1:30:08Justin Roczniak?

  Ann M. Gorsuch gives the order and the EPA agrees to pay $33 million for relocation with $3.7 million coming from the state of Missouri. All 800 families in Times Beach were bought out and moved by the government into whatever housing was available nearby. It happened so quickly, there was not even really any organized resistance to this.

• 1:30:30November Kelly?

  This is a rout. This is a panic.

• 1:30:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Nor was the community consulted for anything, right? Notably, a lot of people were moved into the nearby Quail Run Mobile Manor, right? That's a trailer park, which Russell Bliss had actually sprayed with waste oil much more thoroughly than Times Beach.

• 1:30:53November Kelly?

  Great. Oh, good.

• 1:30:54Justin Roczniak?

  And that was also later evacuated.

• 1:30:57November Kelly?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:30:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Everyone is panicking about what the long-term effects of dioxin are, what health problems they or their kids might experience. This was a complete disaster, right? It's just like, all right, everyone leave.

• 1:31:12November Kelly?

  You never want the, the kind of like federal government advice to be like now panic and freak out, right?

• 1:31:19Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. Go in, they put up the big scary signs like this one. Caution, hazardous waste site, dioxin contamination, stay in your car, minimize travel, keep windows closed, stay on pavement, drive slowly.

• 1:31:33November Kelly?

  Incredible haircut on this woman as well.

• 1:31:35Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:36November Kelly?

  We used to let women have mullets.

• 1:31:38Justin Roczniak?

  Back in the day, back in the day. That's what you could do in the Midwest.

• 1:31:41November Kelly?

  Yeah, real trade-off. On the one hand, the feminine mullets, on the other hand, dioxin. But the toasters, think of the toasters.

• 1:31:50Justin Roczniak?

  Hmm, yeah. So shiny.

• 1:31:52November Kelly?

  Creased jeans like.

• 1:31:54Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:55Justin Roczniak?

  So then they start demolishing the town. Furthermore, at the, uh, you know, they start going to all the other contaminated sites around the state, basically everywhere their Russell Bliss had been, they start demolishing them as well.

• 1:32:09November Kelly?

  How do you think he feels at this point that like smoking a big fat cigar he lit off the back of an oil fire?

• 1:32:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I think he, he, he probably came off best at anyone involved. The waste was all stored at Times Beach being what they figured was the most contaminated site, uh, pending construction of a powerful enough incinerator somewhere in state, which happened in 1995. They built it on the site of the town.

• 1:32:39November Kelly?

  Jesus, okay.

• 1:32:41Justin Roczniak?

  Vast numbers of lawsuits go forward. Um, there's something like 14,000 individual ones. I know Piet and Hempel eventually settle for $10,000 from Bliss, $100,000 from Independent Petroleum, but the guys with the big pockets don't exist, right?

• 1:32:59November Kelly?

  Right.

• 1:33:00Justin Roczniak?

  Most of the pertinent environmental legislation that would have punished anyone involved was passed after the dioxin laced waste oil was applied. So there were a few legal avenues to proceed here. Um, you know, when this disaster started unfolding, the EPA was a year old.

• 1:33:19November Kelly?

  Right.

• 1:33:19Justin Roczniak?

  Um, eventually Independent Petroleum pays out a million dollars to each of Piet's daughters who had gotten permanent chronic health problems from dioxin exposure.

• 1:33:33November Kelly?

  Real bad.

• 1:33:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. But the weird thing is, you know, they clean up the site in 2000, 1997, they finished the cleanup. They finished, they demolished the incinerator, 2001. The site was delisted from the super fund program. Um, since then, dioxins in particular have received a lot of heightened scrutiny from regulators, but there are some questions to be addressed regarding, you know, even chronic low exposure. This problem may not have been so bad that they needed to evacuate. Uh, all, all of the studies of Times Beach residents revealed. Negligible at best health effects from the long term dioxin exposure. You know, this is.

• 1:34:18November Kelly?

  So of all the real stuff to panic about, the thing that gets the big panic and the big scary is something that turns out maybe not to have done anything.

• 1:34:26Justin Roczniak?

  Maybe it didn't really do anything. I'm not disputing like over in Vietnam where you're getting, you know, agent orange dumped on you like every day for months. But you know, in this case, ah, maybe you could have, you could have taken some less extreme measures. Um, this may not have been necessary.

• 1:34:45November Kelly?

  So they're just, they're just pave it, just they just pave over it gang were right?

• 1:34:50Justin Roczniak?

  Probably, yeah. Yeah. You, you probably, you, you probably could have just paved over it.

• 1:34:55November Kelly?

  Incredible.

• 1:34:56Justin Roczniak?

  It was not, it's probably not that bad.

• 1:34:59November Kelly?

  Well, I mean, it makes sense because if it's, if its job is to stick to the dust and stay there, it's gonna do that. Nobody's walking around licking dirt roads.

• 1:35:07Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. Well, well, you won't be able to lick the dirt road because there'd be pavement over it.

• 1:35:14November Kelly?

  Well, exactly.

• 1:35:15Justin Roczniak?

  Well, yeah. So, yeah. Um, Times Beach is gone now. The only building left in town was the Roadhouse that was built across the river, which is now the visitor's center for what is now known as Route 66 State Park.

• 1:35:29November Kelly?

  For, for like, to commemorate the Route 66?

• 1:35:34Liam McAnderson?

  Which is no longer there.

• 1:35:35Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:37November Kelly?

  Never really a thing in the, okay, sure.

• 1:35:40Liam McAnderson?

  But it's no longer signed. It's like decommissioned. Yeah.

• 1:35:44November Kelly?

  Okay, great, cool. Well, I mean, I, this is a perfect American story, right? Of like, think town that exists due to a weird capitalist swindle that fails on its own merits is then horrifically polluted by one guy in a way that then gets everybody to panic.

• 1:36:03Justin Roczniak?

  One guy with a truck ruined everyone's lives.

• 1:36:06November Kelly?

  And then the feds evacuate everything and then it turns out they never even needed to. And now it's kind of a boondoggle national park or state park.

• 1:36:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, yes, you can go there and I think there's like a dog park and there's like, I don't know what else there is in there.

• 1:36:23November Kelly?

  The negligible health effect.

• 1:36:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, negligible health. Well, they, they, the super fund cleaned it up good and proper. I mean, they took out all the topsoil and everything.

• 1:36:33November Kelly?

  This is, this is like the ideal, right of a kind of centralized planned economy is everybody has a kind of do nothing job at like a state institution that only really exists to cover up like a series of other people's errors. This is ideal.

• 1:36:48Justin Roczniak?

  It's really, it's really bad when you, you, you look at this and you, you say, um, you know, you, you start to agree with Reagan about I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

• 1:36:59November Kelly?

  Well, in this case, the federal government didn't really make anything worse apart from, you know, destroying the town. They just kind of, yeah, they, they cleaned it all up for no reason. And now there's a state park there.

• 1:37:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Well, they, they, they've exploded the community. I mean, that, you know, that made everyone.

• 1:37:15November Kelly?

  Perfectly capable of doing that on its own.

• 1:37:17Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good point. Yeah.

• 1:37:18November Kelly?

  What the hell, what the hell have they got at the Route 66 State Park here? Hiking, cycling.

• 1:37:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:26November Kelly?

  Equestrian trails. So I guess it's fine for horses now.

• 1:37:29Justin Roczniak?

  If the horses can handle it, it must be fine. Yeah.

• 1:37:33November Kelly?

  Yeah. Route 66 captured Americans imagination and exposed millions of citizens to small towns across the country. Okay, sure.

• 1:37:42Justin Roczniak?

  I have a feeling a lot of those citizens also lived in small towns at, at that time.

• 1:37:47November Kelly?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm much more interested in the other parks you may like. Missouri Mine State Historic Site, which looks fucked up. That is, that's an old mine. It's in a state of extremely cool disrepair and I like the look of it.

• 1:38:00Justin Roczniak?

  So, uh, what did we learn?

• 1:38:03November Kelly?

  Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

• 1:38:04Justin Roczniak?

  No, I would definitely say I.

• 1:38:06Liam McAnderson?

  Government, who's to say? Good or bad or not? I don't, I don't know.

• 1:38:10Justin Roczniak?

  I was reminded, I was reminded strongly of East Palestine by this. I'm Palestine, excuse me. Um, because you know, you have people like, we want the government to do something and then the government does something and.

• 1:38:26November Kelly?

  Not like that.

• 1:38:27Justin Roczniak?

  I shouldn't have done that. Yeah.

• 1:38:29November Kelly?

  Read, I, I, I invite.

• 1:38:32Justin Roczniak?

  There's an extent to which environmental remediation works. And sometimes you don't need to take the most extreme option. Yeah, this is my, uh, this, this, this is my most pro chemical industry episode.

• 1:38:47November Kelly?

  I, I, I invite, uh, the, the listener to read the novel White Noise. Movie's pretty good, too. Yeah, uh, cool. It's a, it's a real, it's a real kind of Simyevac type situation.

• 1:39:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So this is a, well, you know, they'd only been doing it for 10 years. You can't expect the EPA to not make an oopsie doopsie every once in a while. Well, we have a segment on this podcast called Safety Third.

• 1:39:18November Kelly?

  Shake hands with danger. Uh, all right.

• 1:39:23Justin Roczniak?

  Hello, Nova, Liam, Justin and Schrodinger's guest.

• 1:39:26November Kelly?

  Great. Well, now I'm lost.

• 1:39:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:28November Kelly?

  It's the punchline to a joke I haven't even told, whatever.

• 1:39:31Justin Roczniak?

  Good enough.

• 1:39:33November Kelly?

  Schrodinger's driving along and he's speeding and he gets pulled over by the cop. And the cop says, do you know how fast you are going? And Schrodinger says, great, now I'm lost. And it's not even Schrodinger. It's, it's, um,

• 1:39:43Justin Roczniak?

  It's Heisenberg, isn't it?

• 1:39:46November Kelly?

  So I fucked up the joke that I also fucked up telling. I'm really tired. It's 1:45 in the morning. Can we do the thing, please?

• 1:39:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. In my current life, it's a site reliability engineer, which involves neither sites, reliability nor engineering. Quite frankly, you wouldn't think I've had any good workplace stories for Safety Third. However, I wasn't always a desk jockey. And my proper trade and education is in the kitchen.

• 1:40:10November Kelly?

  Oh, boy. Lot of injuries in there. Lot of Safety Thirds there.

• 1:40:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. As you might imagine, there are no shortage of ways to injure yourself or others in a commercial kitchen.

• 1:40:20November Kelly?

  That's what I get for not reading along.

• 1:40:22Justin Roczniak?

  So the real trick is finding a way to do it that is novel.

• 1:40:26November Kelly?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:40:28Justin Roczniak?

  Many years ago, when I was fresh out of college, I unknowingly resolved to do just that. And so we have the oatmeal incident.

• 1:40:37November Kelly?

  Oh, God, I'm scared.

• 1:40:40Justin Roczniak?

  I took a job right out of college because it was available, but also because it was the only unionized kitchen I had been aware of before or since. That particular local turned out to be not so useful, but that's neither here nor there.

• 1:40:53November Kelly?

  Oh.

• 1:40:53Justin Roczniak?

  My precise job as the new hire and a lowly block one cook was to single man the entire preparation of our breakfast buffet. For a hotel chain you've definitely heard of in a city I know at least two of you have been to, and no, it wasn't a Howard Johnson's.

• 1:41:11November Kelly?

  Wrong with Ho-Jets.

• 1:41:12Justin Roczniak?

  This relatively straightforward task would not have been difficult for an experienced cook with a good sense of how long it takes to do things and the corresponding ability to sort out the order of operations. Again, I was right out of college. One day, when a QHL hockey team was staying at the hotel, I actually managed to run out of oatmeal.

• 1:41:35November Kelly?

  Jesus.

• 1:41:36Justin Roczniak?

  The commercial preparation of oatmeal for a buffet service is not complicated, but it is time consuming, as you need to bring a liter or two of your preferred cooking liquid, I believe I used milk at the time, to a gentle boil before adding the oats and give the oats time to cook in that liquid and the whole product to thicken up. Now, I was mortified by this, so I made sure not to repeat that mistake the next time the team stayed with us. For this kitchen, oatmeal is cooked in a large, shallow, three-foot-wide aluminum pan called a rondo, rhymes with Bondo. Thank you.

• 1:42:17November Kelly?

  And looks like a Louisiana surname.

• 1:42:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. The advantage of this arrangement is that you can cook a large quantity of the oatmeal while providing a broad surface area and a large enough body that you can employ two burners on the stove to supply the necessary heat. This was my undoing.

• 1:42:37November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 1:42:39Justin Roczniak?

  As was the fashion at the time, you handled pans like this by grab gripping their handles through the aid of a side towel, which is nothing more or less exciting than the sort of thing you'd use to dry your dishes. Knowing that the time for the buffet to open was drawing close, I shut down the burner, seized the pan, and turned hurriedly towards the preheated chafing dish I intended to put oatmeal inside of. But since I only killed one burner, the slightly oily, very frizzy towel in my left hand immediately caught fire.

• 1:43:14November Kelly?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:43:15Justin Roczniak?

  And at the speed of reflex, I did what any sane monkey would do and let go of the burning thing.

• 1:43:20November Kelly?

  Oh, no. Oh, no. No, no, no.

• 1:43:23Justin Roczniak?

  The pot immediately fell from my hands, and if I'd followed the thought through and had the good sense to turn away, this wouldn't be a safety third story, but a shitty morning and a lot of hard work to clean up. Instead, I stared at the mess I was about to make and all my hard work as it fell to the floor.

• 1:43:39November Kelly?

  No.

• 1:43:40Justin Roczniak?

  Then, as fluids are wont to do, the bubbling hot oatmeal happily jumped out of the pot and slapped me straight in the face.

• 1:43:47November Kelly?

  What you've, what you did to yourself is something that sometimes prisoners in the UK do to other prisoners or prison officers on purpose. Since, since you cannot run a prison system in the UK without every prison cell having a kettle in it, this is a known thing, right? Like sugar and water, it, it, it sticks real bad.

• 1:44:12Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:44:13November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:16Justin Roczniak?

  Skipping all the really ghastly over explaining, this unexpected hot oatmeal scrub had the predictable effect on my ability to make logical decisions. And after being talked to by our baker into going to the hospital, I took a taxi rather than calling an ambulance. Why'd you do that? It's Canada.

• 1:44:35November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:37Justin Roczniak?

  At the ER, when the staff called my parents to tell them that their son was in the hospital, my father immediately demanded to know what my little brother did that time.

• 1:44:48Justin Roczniak?

  I escaped the worst of the scarring and thanks to Norm MacDonald, I will never, I will never forget the phrase, always wear these safety glasses. Cause I hadn't been wearing my glasses that morning, things would have been a lot worse.

• 1:45:02November Kelly?

  Jesus, no kidding.

• 1:45:03Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, Jesus Christ.

• 1:45:04Justin Roczniak?

  What we learned here is that brand new cooks should probably be reminded to slow the hell down. Side towels should be clean, dry and free of lint and that um, some jumped up hockey player from Montreal has to wait a few minutes for his oatmeal, you know, just let him.

• 1:45:22November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:24Justin Roczniak?

  Greetings from Irvingland from Patch.

• 1:45:27November Kelly?

  Thank you, Patch. I'm glad that you did not uh,

• 1:45:30Justin Roczniak?

  Go blind.

• 1:45:31November Kelly?

  Lose your vision to a thing of Quaker Oats. Yeah.

• 1:45:34Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:37November Kelly?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:45:39Liam McAnderson?

  That is.

• 1:45:40Justin Roczniak?

  These and other things can happen to you in a kitchen.

• 1:45:42November Kelly?

  I, yeah, I want some more kitchen safety thirds, cause I know there's a million of them out there.

• 1:45:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. You know, I feel like I might cause some at some point in the near future. Yeah.

• 1:45:52November Kelly?

  Me anytime I cook.

• 1:45:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:54Liam McAnderson?

  Same.

• 1:45:55Justin Roczniak?

  Well, that was Safety Third.

• 1:46:00Justin Roczniak?

  Our next episode will be on Chernobyl. Does anyone have any commercials before we go?

• 1:46:05November Kelly?

  Do all the stuff in the description of the video, whatever it says.

• 1:46:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 1:46:11November Kelly?

  Buy a shirt. We have shirts. Probably should have plugged that at some point before uh, an hour fifty-four.

• 1:46:17Liam McAnderson?

  No, the Hogs will do it.

• 1:46:18Justin Roczniak?

  Merchandise.

• 1:46:19November Kelly?

  Thank you, Hogs.

• 1:46:20Justin Roczniak?

  Thank you, Hogs. Um, yeah, uh, do organize political v-

• 1:46:25Liam McAnderson?

  Roz.

• 1:46:28November Kelly?

  Bleep that.

• 1:46:29Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:29November Kelly?

  Or don't, I don't care anymore.

• 1:46:31Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, who knows? No one's gonna watch it to this. Well, hopefully the, the content moderators don't watch it to this, this far.

• 1:46:37Liam McAnderson?

  No, don't worry. It's just AI robbing us again.

• 1:46:40Justin Roczniak?

  Oh my God. All right.

• 1:46:42November Kelly?

  Bye, everybody.

• 1:46:42Justin Roczniak?

  Podcast. Bye, everyone.

• 1:46:43November Kelly?

  Bye.