Episode 179: The Boeing 777X

it's all happening on 777X, the everything plane new SHIRT: https://www.bonfire.com/pls-dont-sue-us-either/ check out maya's article: https://laserdyke.substack.com/p/a-monument-to-the-death-of-americaand maya's internet webzone: https://mayawalkwith.me/ check out our TOUR:April 29: New York City (NOW WITH CHEAPER TICKETS)https://sonyhall.com/events/well-theres-your-problem/?id=18162April 30: Somerville Mass (SOLD OUT!)https://artsatthearmory.org/events/bill-blumenreich-presents-well-theres-your-problem-podcast-2/May 1: Somerville Mass (SOLD OUT!)https://thewilbur.com/armory/artist/wtyp/May 2: New York City (SOLD OUT!)https://www.ticketweb.com/event/well-theres-your-problem-sony-hall-tickets/13918973May 3: Washington DC (SOLD OUT!)https://www.unionstagepresents.com/shows/well-theres-your-problem-podcast/May 4: Philadelphia, PA (BUY MORE TICKETS FOR THIS ONE!)https://concerts.livenation.com/well-theres-your-problem-podcast-philadelphia-pennsylvania-05-04-2025/event/0200615211C27E44 Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wtyppod/ Send us stuff! our address:Well There's Your Podcasting CompanyPO Box 26929 Philadelphia, PA 19134DO NOT SEND US LETTER BOMBS thanks in advance in the commercial: Local Forecast - Elevator Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00November Kelly?

  We're going, we're going. It's, um, you know, the workflow is happening.

• 0:06Justin Roczniak?

  We're casting the pod, folks. Like a big, like a fisherman casting a net.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  Fishers of men.

• 0:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, casters of pod.

• 0:18November Kelly?

  Oh, casters of pod.

• 0:22Justin Roczniak?

  Hello and welcome to Well, There's Your Problem. It's a podcast about engineering disasters with slides. I'm Justin Rozdak. I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go.

• 0:35November Kelly?

  I'm November Kelly. I'm the person who's talking now. My pronouns are she and her. Yay, Liam.

• 0:39Liam McAnderson?

  Yay, Liam. Hi, I'm Liam McAnister. My pronouns are he and him, and we have a guest.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Hello, my name is Maya Ventura. My pronouns are it and she. Sis people be a little easy about the it, but that's just how it goes.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  Uh, you probably know me from nothing because I am somebody who was parlayed a parasocial relationship into appearing on a podcast and it's quite cool.

• 1:03November Kelly?

  Very successfully because it was a, it was a, it was a strong pitch of.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  I've written the slides already.

• 1:10November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had to do less work. I would just say almost none. And we had a very clickbaity title, which is, uh, we could put like the really like YouTube bait thumbnail up here with all of us, you know, making the Mr. Beast face. What, you know, why this plane means that, uh, America can't build planes anymore.

• 1:29Justin Roczniak?

  Also, the second, uh, Maya to have been on this podcast to use it pronouns.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  This is true.

• 1:37November Kelly?

  How are you keeping track of this?

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I also do this, actually.

• 1:42Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, well, only, I'm pretty sure only Mayas have used it pronouns on this podcast.

• 1:48November Kelly?

  We're studying this here. There's a correlation.

• 1:51Justin Roczniak?

  I got a big spreadsheet of all the pronouns.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Master pronouns.

• 1:57Liam McAnderson?

  You keep that right next to the podcast ideas master list.

• 2:00Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm tracking the trends. We're gonna see what gender is doing in this country.

• 2:07Liam McAnderson?

  We'll be tracking it very closely.

• 2:09November Kelly?

  Actually, picking from the wrong spreadsheet and we do a four hour episode on the pronouns they and them.

• 2:14Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, God.

• 2:15Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no.

• 2:17November Kelly?

  I assume we'd be in favor like.

• 2:19Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 2:22Justin Roczniak?

  No, but we're gonna, we're gonna.

• 2:23Liam McAnderson?

  But I do like the idea of four hours on just pronouns.

• 2:25Justin Roczniak?

  No, the discourse will get confusing.

• 2:28Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29Justin Roczniak?

  I would assume.

• 2:30Liam McAnderson?

  Drowning.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  I was, we as a country are on like our several million of pronoun discourse. So like a podcast wouldn't really be that hard of a sell.

• 2:38Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good point.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  I say we as a country, but also the UK. So everybody.

• 2:42November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:43Justin Roczniak?

  What if we did a podcast about gender?

• 2:46November Kelly?

  Whoa.

• 2:47Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 2:47Liam McAnderson?

  Wow.

• 2:49Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 2:50November Kelly?

  Whoa. There's your gender.

• 2:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, we just assign it to you.

• 2:56Liam McAnderson?

  There you go.

• 2:56November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 2:57Justin Roczniak?

  Somehow it's always right.

• 2:58November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 2:59Justin Roczniak?

  I have a predictive model that says this is your gender.

• 3:02November Kelly?

  This is, this is actually the same predictive model that determines which mayor to do next on No Gods No Mares.

• 3:07Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:08November Kelly?

  The Mentaculous.

• 3:10Justin Roczniak?

  Well, the problem is when the, uh, the predictive model assigns the mayor the wrong gender.

• 3:17Liam McAnderson?

  You hate to see it.

• 3:18November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah. It happened with the Rudy Giuliani episode. We, uh, yeah, we've moved past it.

• 3:22Justin Roczniak?

  Sorry, the, the model is right. Reality is frequently inaccurate. Anyway.

• 3:28November Kelly?

  Assume a perfectly spherical gender.

• 3:31Liam McAnderson?

  Assume a perfectly spherical Rudy Giuliani.

• 3:34Justin Roczniak?

  What we see on the screen here is the new triple seven Twitter.

• 3:43Justin Roczniak?

  You can look at pictures of it. Very difficult to see it in real life. And that's what we're going to talk about today.

• 3:49November Kelly?

  Fantastic. The plane, the plane that killed Boeing or will kill Boeing.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Before Boeing kills us. Yeah, one of several planes that killed Boeing.

• 3:56November Kelly?

  To be fair, the plane killing Boeing is really an act of self-defense, considering what Boeing, you know, does to whistleblowers. And passengers.

• 4:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yep.

• 4:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Justin Roczniak?

  But before we do that, we have to do the goddamn news.

• 4:15Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, this is a terrific Chyron.

• 4:17Justin Roczniak?

  So, yeah.

• 4:19Justin Roczniak?

  Holy shit, what is going on?

• 4:21November Kelly?

  I don't know.

• 4:25November Kelly?

  For a while, I thought we were all just gonna die. And now it seems like maybe we're not, we're not gonna die for a minute until we do die. Have you seen the euthanasia coaster? The roller coaster that at some point down like snaps your neck several times and then.

• 4:42Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, and I think the lift hill is too steep.

• 4:45November Kelly?

  Yeah, well, even so, that's, that's kind of like, that's how I'm feeling with the, with the markets, you know?

• 4:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, the, the, we don't know what the tariffs are anymore, or how long they're gonna last. It's gonna be really funny because.

• 4:58Liam McAnderson?

  Now, maybe, I don't know. I have the New York Times open.

• 5:02Justin Roczniak?

  The last, the last, whatchamacallit, episode we recorded was right after the tariffs were put in, and that hasn't come out yet. So now we're reporting on, we have no fucking clue what's going on anymore, guys.

• 5:14November Kelly?

  It's one of the worst combinations of like lag between episode recording and release and news cycle speed. So many things happen.

• 5:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 5:24Liam McAnderson?

  It's, it's tragic.

• 5:25Justin Roczniak?

  We, we just, I'm still pretty bullish on the power grid going down. I think they're gonna fuck it up that bad.

• 5:32Liam McAnderson?

  I'll buy that.

• 5:34Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. I had a power outage this morning.

• 5:36November Kelly?

  I mean, extrapolating from that, it's only a matter of time, but like, I, I genuinely have no idea at this point. And I've, I've learned to kind of, Trump has taught me Buddha nature. I've learned that my, my desires, my, uh, hindering me, my sort of like, my needs are impermanent. I don't actually need a new graphics card. And not only that, but, but I should embrace uncertainty and not, and sort of like, uh, I should, you know, just allow that, allow it to wash over me, you know?

• 6:05Liam McAnderson?

  It's a, yeah, buyer's market, maybe? Question mark, question mark, question mark?

• 6:09Justin Roczniak?

  So, yeah, I, I guess what's happened is there's been a 90 day pause on the tariffs to some extent.

• 6:16Liam McAnderson?

  Maybe.

• 6:16Justin Roczniak?

  To what extent, no one actually knows. My, my other understanding is no one actually knows how to collect the tariffs. Um, so, so the, the collections haven't actually happened.

• 6:28November Kelly?

  They're trying to reimburse some, which I guess just means not, not doing them. And I'm, I'm just like, at this point, uh, all I can say is that the price of the Patreon feed is now reciprocal with the tariffs. But there are a number of exceptions. And so the Patreon doesn't currently cost $2,000 a month, but in 90 days it might unless you meet a number of criteria.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Who's to say?

• 6:54Justin Roczniak?

  Who's to say? We might have, you know, something stupid happen to the dollar. There's some bullshit happening in the bond markets that I don't understand. There's, uh, what's the other one? Okay. So most of the tariffs have been suspended, except the tariffs on China, which had been increased to, I don't know, a hundred and something percent.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Hundred and forty-five?

• 7:14November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 7:14Justin Roczniak?

  A hundred and forty-five?

• 7:15November Kelly?

  That will be the wrong answer by the time this comes out.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  It might be the wrong answer now.

• 7:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 7:23November Kelly?

  And I mean, the, the other fun thing is, um, trying to charge, uh, like a million dollars for each time a Chinese built or flagged or crude ship docks in, docks in the US port, which is like, as if you are hamstrung enough by the Jones Act.

• 7:42Justin Roczniak?

  Well, that's, uh, that's for the, uh, that, that's, that's for the ships that are compliant with the Chinese Jones Act.

• 7:50November Kelly?

  I mean, you're, you're gonna have to start doing like that one seafood company and running everything that comes into the US over like 45 meters of technically Canadian railroad in order to make a Jones Act compliant. I, I, I miss it already. I love a regulatory loophole and I'm sure that they'll find others.

• 8:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. I mean, you know, the, the way this is gonna affect business, I, I think just people are gonna stop importing things for a while. I know a lot of containers are just being sent back to China. Uh, I know that, um, uh, the one thing I, I saw a press release from was Rapido trains. They do a bunch of, uh, nice, uh, HO scale, uh, model trains. They're all made in China and they were like, yeah, we think these tariffs are gonna disappear pretty soon. So we're just not importing anything until.

• 8:37November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 8:38Justin Roczniak?

  Until they disappear.

• 8:40November Kelly?

  We're waiting until the bond markets like whack Trump over the head enough with a big two by four. Uh, I, I mean, this is the thing, but they can't like just get rid of him like they did Liz Truss. At least I don't think they can. I don't know if the bond markets have shoes like that.

• 8:54Justin Roczniak?

  You could invoke whatever, the 25th amendment.

• 8:58November Kelly?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 9:00Justin Roczniak?

  Whatever it is, one of the later amendments.

• 9:03November Kelly?

  Yeah, I don't know, but it's all insane. It's all completely unpredictable.

• 9:12Liam McAnderson?

  Sure is, Nova.

• 9:13November Kelly?

  And my favorite detail, my favorite detail was I saw a vox pop. I saw an interview with a guy who got, I think, maybe maximally screwed by the tariffs just in like a short term bets situation because he bought a new iPhone, sort of panic buying before the tariffs came in, the day before the smartphones were exempted from the tariffs.

• 9:37Justin Roczniak?

  All right, yeah, they did exempt a bunch of consumer electronics from the tariffs, which, you know, is, sure, great, fine. What about all the other stuff that comes from China?

• 9:47November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Justin Roczniak?

  Not everything that comes from China is like a smartphone. You know, there's like industrial equipment and shit.

• 9:53November Kelly?

  You don't, you don't need clothes, you don't need shoes, you don't need industrial equipment or anything like that.

• 9:58Justin Roczniak?

  You definitely don't need, you definitely don't need spare parts for industrial equipment you already have.

• 10:03November Kelly?

  The thing is, Trump knows what his constituency is, which is gamers and posters. And so obviously the price of graphics card or smartphone cannot go up.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I found out about this because it was in the mechanical keyboard community because they exempted.

• 10:17November Kelly?

  I've seen this, yes.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Keycaps and switches under like certain specific definitions. And it was very funny, especially since I just switched to like a rubber dome keyboard.

• 10:26November Kelly?

  That would be really nice if the company that I was supposedly shipping me my keycaps last year ever bothered to do that.

• 10:37November Kelly?

  Clearly an early victim of the tariffs, I guess.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Here's, the thing is, like, I deal with, I know a lot of like retro tech hobbyists in like the iPod parts scene specifically. Like, nobody's getting the parts that they buy just because of the Chinese companies, even though they're now exempt from the tariffs, just don't want to bother.

• 10:55November Kelly?

  President Trump.

• 10:57Liam McAnderson?

  I was just about to buy an old, oh, man. That sucks.

• 11:02November Kelly?

  President Donald J. Trump, I am willing to like praise you to the extent that you you do what I want, just like anyone. Please authorize drone strike. On, uh, wait, no, I can't say that. Please, please, please, please, uh, consider investigating the use of like all necessary federal responses against Aloha KB for their fucking biotech and firearm keycaps. Cause I really wanted them and I ordered them like fucking five years ago and they just didn't. They've never shipped the fucking things. So.

• 11:37Liam McAnderson?

  I need, I need my retro iPad, uh, iPod, please, because my, uh, my Schandling M zero broke. Uh, and I need a new digital audio player and I really want a nice iPod with a Bluetooth mod. Please, Donald Trump.

• 11:52Justin Roczniak?

  This is the thing though, um, you know, on the one hand.

• 11:56Liam McAnderson?

  What do you want from the tariffs?

• 11:58Justin Roczniak?

  What do I want from the tariffs?

• 12:01November Kelly?

  Tariff Santa.

• 12:06Justin Roczniak?

  Wow. He comes down the chimney and hands you a huge bill.

• 12:11Justin Roczniak?

  And you still have to give him milk and cookies.

• 12:14November Kelly?

  A single, a single lump of coal and then charges you $3,000.

• 12:19Justin Roczniak?

  The problem with this situation is either we have an insane economic collapse and I'll get cholera because water systems stop working because there's no spare parts. Or Congress removes the president and then JD Vance becomes president.

• 12:37November Kelly?

  And third, third option.

• 12:39Justin Roczniak?

  That, that is, that is very, um, I, I am, I don't know which is worse. I.

• 12:45November Kelly?

  Third, third option, national reunification salvation government under general Mark Melly.

• 12:52Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. All right. Whatever.

• 12:54November Kelly?

  Excited for the, for the pro woke junta.

• 12:57Justin Roczniak?

  I'll, I'll take, I'll take a woke military coup.

• 13:01Liam McAnderson?

  Sure.

• 13:03November Kelly?

  Sure. Yeah. It's just the, the, you know, the new president comes on TV in uniform and is like, all right. Four things. Thing. Number one, politics is over. No more voting. Thing. Number two, the war in Ukraine continues forever. Thing. Number three, mandatory pronouns. Thing. Number four, Donald Trump has been.

• 13:22Liam McAnderson?

  You can't say that. They're gonna yell at us.

• 13:27Liam McAnderson?

  I you can't. I was listening to the bonus episode on Catholicism with my parents because I thought my dad would find a buddy. And I did really like Devon be like, I've been, listen, I've been, I've been playing pretty offhandedly with the, the bonus episode, but you absolutely cannot say that. So thank you Devon for making my mom laugh at me.

• 13:46November Kelly?

  Yeah. Thank you for saving us from ourselves so often.

• 13:49Liam McAnderson?

  Yes.

• 13:50Justin Roczniak?

  So, yeah.

• 13:52Liam McAnderson?

  Fucked, fucked, fucked, fucked, fucked, fucked, fucked.

• 13:55Justin Roczniak?

  Here to say, you know, this is a piece of news. We don't know what's happening anymore, folks.

• 14:00Liam McAnderson?

  Neither do you, dickhead.

• 14:01Justin Roczniak?

  Neither do you.

• 14:02November Kelly?

  We're all, we're all completely out of touch with everything. And that's fine.

• 14:07Justin Roczniak?

  So is everyone else.

• 14:08November Kelly?

  Yeah. They're not, they're not calling it a black billowing cloud anymore. They're calling it the airborne toxic event.

• 14:13Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, great band.

• 14:14Justin Roczniak?

  We're all floating in uncertainty.

• 14:20Justin Roczniak?

  In a sort of comforting, black, toxic cloud.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  I will say it is nice to wake up and read a headline that's like Donald Trump hates everybody rather than just Donald Trump hates trans people.

• 14:33Justin Roczniak?

  That's true.

• 14:34November Kelly?

  That's true.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  It has been a pleasant, it has been a pleasant shift to share in the misery that I have been experiencing nonstop for the past four months.

• 14:45November Kelly?

  Yeah. No pronouns, but also no iPhones.

• 14:48Liam McAnderson?

  I, I get player, player mods, player mods.com. If anyone on the Patreon wants to buy me this, this two terabytes of the 3,000 milliamp hour battery, please, I'll take that. It's 849 US dollars somehow.

• 15:04November Kelly?

  The, the Aloha KB firearm keycaps looked really, really good. And then they just never shipped them. Did blow up the three Gorges dam. No choice, no option.

• 15:15Justin Roczniak?

  I just, I, I just wanted a new mouse wheel for my nice mouse.

• 15:19Liam McAnderson?

  I could get you a new mouse wheel, but I have to wear the tariff Santa hat.

• 15:25November Kelly?

  It's I mean, like

• 15:27Liam McAnderson?

  Jewish Santa really rolls off the tongue.

• 15:30November Kelly?

  The MAGA hat already is the same color as a Santa hat. So if you just like embossed it like a make America great again on the front of a Santa hat.

• 15:39Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, God, let me.

• 15:40November Kelly?

  This probably exists, yeah.

• 15:41Liam McAnderson?

  MAGA Santa hat. That's yeah, it auto completed. Yeah, it exists.

• 15:49November Kelly?

  Oh, that's one of the worst things I ever thought of in my life. Thank you.

• 15:52Justin Roczniak?

  Speaking of worse things in other news.

• 15:58November Kelly?

  I didn't mean it when I said blow up the three gorgeous damn if anything like.

• 16:02Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, she did. Yes, she did.

• 16:05November Kelly?

  I.

• 16:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they got that cool shiplift and everything there.

• 16:08November Kelly?

  I feel happiest when I'm lighting my my American cigarettes with my Chinese matches. Like, I just support, you know, both sides and doing whatever they're doing. And so long as it doesn't inconvenience me in any way.

• 16:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, what Europe is a bunch of nodes of distribution and something.

• 16:23November Kelly?

  It's a borderless network of transport and supply. Yes.

• 16:26Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 16:29November Kelly?

  But so, yeah, speaking of the the British steelmaking industry is kind of just over at this point.

• 16:36Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, what happened to you?

• 16:37November Kelly?

  Well, we had one remaining set of blast furnaces left, which are these in Scunthorpe. Because we closed.

• 16:46Justin Roczniak?

  Integrated steel mill.

• 16:48November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 16:49Justin Roczniak?

  As opposed to many mills that, you know, only pussies have.

• 16:53November Kelly?

  This is a this is the like last big, big steelworks that we have that still makes like virgin steel. Like, doesn't have any like as many imperfections in it, isn't recycled steel. Because we closed the second to last one in Port Talbot. And that one just closed and like 2,000 people lost their jobs. This one, the government stepped in at the last minute, except maybe too late at the last minute. Because it's seeming like they're gonna renationalize British steel. And, you know, that's great news for the next five year plan and all the rest of it, you know.

• 17:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 17:27November Kelly?

  But.

• 17:28Justin Roczniak?

  Chocolate rations are going up.

• 17:30November Kelly?

  Yeah, exactly. But the problem is that so this this. Steelworks was owned by like a Chinese parent corporation that had basically realized that this is a completely uneconomical industry to be doing in the UK because electricity is really, really expensive and it's quite difficult to build things that, and these are like old blast furnaces that have been running since the 50s.

• 17:57Justin Roczniak?

  They don't have, there's no coal, there's no iron.

• 18:00November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Justin Roczniak?

  There is coal, but they don't mine it anymore.

• 18:03November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so they, they stopped ordering the stuff that you need to keep the blast furnaces going, the coal and the, the, the iron. And in fact, actively started selling off some of the, the stock of them. And so the government is now like, sort of forced their way in to, they haven't renationalized yet, but to make them keep the furnaces on, but it may just be too late. And exactly how bad is it to have to restart a blast furnace is not a question I know the answer to, but much like how long is the transplant list? I feel like it's a question that if you're asking, you're not in a good place in the, you know, in the first place.

• 18:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, I would hazard a guess it's at least a couple of weeks.

• 18:51November Kelly?

  The transplant list?

• 18:52Justin Roczniak?

  No, to, no, the transplant list, I assume is much longer than that. But the, uh, starting the blast furnace, you know, there's, you gotta do a lot of stuff when you're trying to start up a furnace that's that hot and that big, just so it doesn't like, you know, accumulate moisture and then explode.

• 19:10November Kelly?

  So, yeah, so we are, we're like, the, the taxpayer now, I guess, is losing 700,000 pounds a day on the steelworks.

• 19:19Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 19:20November Kelly?

  Just, just because, like I say, it's, their electricity bill went up like 120 million dollars, 120 million pounds last year. And it just, it's, it's this strange thing where we know on a headline basis, or politicians seem to know on a headline basis, that it's, you need some kind of steelmaking capacity, right? But have never invested anything in trying to maintain it or like...

• 19:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I, I mean, having a whole country without an integrated steel mill is embarrassing.

• 19:55Justin Roczniak?

  You know, that's, that's just the long and short of it there. It's like, you know,

• 19:59Liam McAnderson?

  And you'll have no domestic steel production. I'm

• 20:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 20:02Liam McAnderson?

  You're saying that correctly, right?

• 20:03Justin Roczniak?

  If you have no domestic steel production, that is embarrassing.

• 20:08November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Justin Roczniak?

  I'm sorry, you're third world now.

• 20:11November Kelly?

  Yeah, I mean, like, I, I, I understand the deal is that we'll keep recycling steel. Because they were trying to like, move them from these blast furnaces to electric arc furnaces, which are a bit sort of like, less carbon-y.

• 20:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, well, that's again, because you're only recycling and you just add lots of electricity to scrap steel and you get new steel out of it. You know, and a lot of sparks.

• 20:40November Kelly?

  Big spark factory.

• 20:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, exactly.

• 20:42Liam McAnderson?

  That's true.

• 20:43November Kelly?

  Yeah, so this is, this is maybe like the kind of capstone on a, you know, 160 year industrial legacy. And, you know, it's, it's cool if they are able to preserve the jobs. I, I don't know long-term about that. And it's, it's also striking that they intervened in this way to do this, but in, in Port Talbot, the last steel mill that shut down, which is in Wales. You know, neither the Welsh government nor the UK government were that fast. And, you know, like 2,000 people lost their jobs. So, I don't know, it's, it's real bad. And I feel like this is all like a series of deep structural like wounds that are all kind of like, have all sort of combined to get us to this point.

• 21:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. And if you don't have steel, how are you going to fix the structure?

• 21:30Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Structure.

• 21:31Justin Roczniak?

  Steel. Yeah, exactly.

• 21:32November Kelly?

  How are you going to get all of the guys like hammering on the big I-beam to, to make the communism if you can't even make an I-beam anymore?

• 21:39Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good point. That's a good point.

• 21:41November Kelly?

  Like, you know, none of us are going to have those, those building communism jobs if there's no steel to build communism out of. It's the, it's the basic resource of communism.

• 21:50Justin Roczniak?

  I'm pretty sure that Donald Trump's tariffs are going to bring the steel industry back.

• 21:57Justin Roczniak?

  Everywhere.

• 21:58November Kelly?

  Yeah, what you want from tariff Santa is a global steel industry thing. I mean, it's also like just the kind of reciprocal of the Chinese steel industry doing very well and having, you know, therefore, it's very easy to get a lot of cheap steel. You just have to ship it from China, not just China, you know, but places where it is cheap to make, whereas it's very expensive here. And so we're just kind of.

• 22:27Justin Roczniak?

  They've done this amazing thing in China that we don't really like to do in the West, which is every once in a while, they go through and modernize the facility.

• 22:35November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 22:36Liam McAnderson?

  We don't.

• 22:38Liam McAnderson?

  Fuck you. Fuck you. Yeah, we just turned them into apartment buildings and tourist tourist attractions here.

• 22:44Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly, as opposed to or just running the same shit from 1950 for 70 years.

• 22:49Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, sure.

• 22:50November Kelly?

  That's that. That last one is the British way. And specifically, like this, this thing of trying to get them to move to these electric arc furnaces. The government was like, okay, you're gonna, you're gonna get two of these furnaces, right? One in Scunthorpe where the plant is now, one in T side. And then we're gonna give you 500 million pounds to do that when the owners were like, this will cost 1.25 billion. And then they did just didn't get planning permission for one of them anyway. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's actually kind of illegal to build anything. So.

• 23:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's why we need abundance, I guess.

• 23:34November Kelly?

  Maybe, maybe everybody can have podcast jobs. Maybe we can all, you know.

• 23:38Liam McAnderson?

  No, no, those are for me. Those are for me.

• 23:41Justin Roczniak?

  You can have a, you could have a little electric arc furnace in your backyard.

• 23:45Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, right. Right next to your. Yeah. Make a little spark.

• 23:51Justin Roczniak?

  We're we're upgrading everyone's electrical service to like 11 kilovolts.

• 23:57Liam McAnderson?

  Texas ain't having this bitch.

• 23:58November Kelly?

  I love I love to just stand near an electrical outlet and just get like arc flash vaporized instantly.

• 24:07November Kelly?

  Just two boot prints on the floor, just scorch marks.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  We are upgrading everybody's electrical capacity on the electrical grid that is going to collapse.

• 24:17November Kelly?

  Yeah, I just I I feel like.

• 24:19Justin Roczniak?

  You need special gloves to access the breaker panel in your own house now.

• 24:24November Kelly?

  I just feel like more and more Britain's economy is a game of workers and resources that has gone horribly wrong.

• 24:31Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. Yep, it's gonna have to shut down the steel mill. Oh shit, we got too many people. I can't afford to import the electronics anymore.

• 24:41November Kelly?

  What we need to do, wait shit, I was gonna do a joke about how I always play workers and resources, which is you just run like an oil field until you have more money than you know what to do with so that you can just do everything else because the oil industry runs without needing to move workers around and I don't understand how to do that. So I just I I fuck up on all other parts of the map that's subsidized to buy an oil industry that runs itself. That's what Britain did with North Sea Oil.

• 25:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 25:10November Kelly?

  We just did that. It is a workers and resources game.

• 25:13Justin Roczniak?

  And Norway figured it out.

• 25:15November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  The thing the thing is like I come from like Western Pennsylvania, Eastern Ohio. Sorry to harsh the Philadelphia. But the whole everybody loses their jobs and the government doesn't have anything to do about it is like those that's the stories I've been hearing for my entire life. Cause people just people just never stop talking about it because and you know, they voted for Donald Trump to bring the steel jobs back 40 years later. So hopefully the with any luck, the British people will get a Donald Trump of their own to destroy the British Empire finally.

• 25:49Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:51November Kelly?

  Be really funny to try and do all of the tariff Santa stuff, but we just don't have the economic power of the US. We just wait, it'll be like Argentina. We just bankrupt ourselves by being like, yeah, you know, 500% tariffs on China. Uh, China does not notice.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Yes, but then then you would get special White House visits like um I don't actually know how his name is pronounced.

• 26:12November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Justin Roczniak?

  Mele?

• 26:13November Kelly?

  I'm Kelly, yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  No, that's.

• 26:16November Kelly?

  Javier Mele, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's the he's the prison guy. Mele is the economics guy.

• 26:21November Kelly?

  Yeah, well, in many ways, they're both the economics guy and both the prison guy.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 26:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 26:28November Kelly?

  So I read about that from a guy called Michel Foucault.

• 26:31Justin Roczniak?

  Ooh. In many ways, a steel mill is like a prison, though.

• 26:35November Kelly?

  Yeah, for real.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 26:37Justin Roczniak?

  So anyway, the lesson here is export oil.

• 26:41November Kelly?

  Hmm, I guess so.

• 26:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 26:45November Kelly?

  Ah, I think the lesson here is split the atom, but to be honest, we don't even bother doing that.

• 26:52Justin Roczniak?

  I understand you could make money off that if you import the raw uranium ore and then you build the factory, the the various factories, and then the export, the finished uranium fuel. I've never tried it in in the game, but you know.

• 27:08November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 27:08Justin Roczniak?

  I've heard it works pretty good. You got to invest some research in first, though.

• 27:12November Kelly?

  This is the this is the dynamic. This is the the sort of dramaturgical dyad between me and you, right? Is that you're a you're a workers and resources level brain, and I'm a tropical four level brain. That's the kind of economics I'm capable of like digesting.

• 27:26Justin Roczniak?

  I think that was the goddamn news.

• 27:28November Kelly?

  That's right.

• 27:31Justin Roczniak?

  So first, we must ask, what is Boeing?

• 27:35Speaker 02

  The good airplane formerly.

• 27:37Liam McAnderson?

  I do like this.

• 27:38November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  I've seen this plane recently. It's it's quite nice.

• 27:42November Kelly?

  Paint the engines burgundy.

• 27:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 27:45November Kelly?

  A normal sentence said by a sane person.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  I mean, even if you didn't paint them at this point, they were like polished metal, which looks a lot better than carbon fiber. No, not carbon fiber, shit aluminum.

• 27:57November Kelly?

  This is this is a flying conversation pit, and I love it so much.

• 28:00Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. As this is Boeing seven oh seven. Boeing is the company that makes some of the airplanes that you may fly around in.

• 28:10Justin Roczniak?

  They used to be headquartered in Seattle. They aren't anymore.

• 28:13November Kelly?

  I I stand by.

• 28:15Justin Roczniak?

  Later.

• 28:15November Kelly?

  I stand by the comet episode. No matter how many people it killed, we de Havilland was robbed, you know, like it should have been us. You should you should be flying on a plane named after some kind of astronomical phenomenon. It should kill you, and you should feel good about it.

• 28:33Justin Roczniak?

  Well, they have at least one of those things.

• 28:37November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, but it's always kind of an imitation, you know, like it's a it's not it doesn't have the lunch pail kind of like meat and potatoes killing you that, you know, you used to have.

• 28:47Justin Roczniak?

  Anyway, so Boeing started, I didn't put any notes down here. I'm just going going from memory.

• 28:53Liam McAnderson?

  What'd you say? You're Boeing from memory?

• 28:55Justin Roczniak?

  Boeing from memory, yeah.

• 28:57Liam McAnderson?

  Boeing from memory? Thank you, Maya. Thank you, Maya.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Take a drink, folks.

• 29:02November Kelly?

  You're winging it, would you say?

• 29:05Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 29:06Liam McAnderson?

  No, I wouldn't say that. Get the gun out. Get the fun gun.

• 29:11Justin Roczniak?

  They started making airplanes before World War II. They sort of got lucky eventually because they were headquartered in Seattle. Seattle has a lot of cheap electricity from hydropower from the Columbia River, which meant a lot of aluminum factories set up up there because you gotta use a lot of electricity to make aluminum. Boom. You can make great airplanes out of that because it's really light. Boeing sort of with their 707, they really create like the modern, the first modern airliner. And, you know, they've, you know, iterated on the concept ever since. You know, and they had, you know, eventually where we, you know, through a very long process of consolidation, we wind up with

• 29:53Justin Roczniak?

  the current situation we're in today, which is, you know, you want an airliner, you get a Boeing or an Airbus or maybe an Embraer.

• 30:03Justin Roczniak?

  But I don't think that's that's on the small end of the market. There's more people. Big end, nah, just the two. So, yeah, that's that's my very brief, incoherent history of Boeing.

• 30:15November Kelly?

  That's seemed pretty coherent to me.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's just, it's about right. They did the 707 and then they did the 747 and everything else has been some form of slot, pretty much.

• 30:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 30:26November Kelly?

  Just like, you know, pressing the button to crank out another slight variation of the, you know, the 707.

• 30:32Justin Roczniak?

  I'd love to defend the 757, but every time I've been on one, it's just been the most horrendously bumpy flight I've ever been on.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  This has also been true for me. I still. If I'm booking a flight, I'm usually booking a flight to Seattle. And if I fly through Atlanta, you'll sometimes get like a 757. And like, that is exciting to me. And it's bad when a 757 is the most exciting thing that an American airline can give me.

• 30:58November Kelly?

  What's the, what's the, what's the tiny, tiny one? The like little miniature Boeing? Because that's, that's kind of low key my favorite.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  That's a few things. The, the 747 SP we talked about.

• 31:11Justin Roczniak?

  The 717?

• 31:13November Kelly?

  Uh, I, I, I don't even know. This is the thing. I don't, I don't know my, I don't know my Boeing family at all.

• 31:19Justin Roczniak?

  You can get a really tiny 737.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  You could, but you haven't been able to do that for quite a few years now.

• 31:24Justin Roczniak?

  You get, um, I don't know.

• 31:26November Kelly?

  It is, it is a 737. That's, that's, that's the one that I like. Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  The 737 dash 100 technically.

• 31:33November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Which they haven't, they have not built for 50 years.

• 31:36Justin Roczniak?

  Damn.

• 31:37Liam McAnderson?

  Well, you know, Nova lives in a, a different dimension than the rest of us.

• 31:41November Kelly?

  I haven't, I haven't, I haven't flown in a long time, uh, because of the transgender scans.

• 31:48Liam McAnderson?

  I was gonna say because of woke, and then I realized it was the exact opposite of that.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  It's because you're woke. So it is because of woke.

• 31:56November Kelly?

  That, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. And the good news is I got my passport back and I, I have, I have the yearn to, to like travel again properly. So we'll see how long that lasts. And so I guess like trauma blasted out of me at a, you know, some airport security somewhere.

• 32:09Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no.

• 32:10Justin Roczniak?

  Gotta go, uh, gotta go, uh, take the Eurostar.

• 32:12November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 32:14Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know what security they do there. Anyway, I, I, what, what?

• 32:17November Kelly?

  It's airport style, uh, which.

• 32:19Liam McAnderson?

  Ah, fuck yeah.

• 32:21Justin Roczniak?

  It sucks.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. See, Amtrak is nice because they just let me walk on the train without any.

• 32:25Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Anything at all.

• 32:26Justin Roczniak?

  They don't give a shit. Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  They don't usually, they, they have not checked my ticket the last time, the last couple of times.

• 32:31Liam McAnderson?

  They don't, they truly don't give a fuck.

• 32:34Justin Roczniak?

  All right. Anyway.

• 32:35Liam McAnderson?

  That's a Boeing. Here are more Boeings.

• 32:38Justin Roczniak?

  Here are more Boeings.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Oh, look, back when paint, uh, paint liveries used to be or plane liveries, there we go, used to be cool and good.

• 32:45November Kelly?

  I, I, I feel real bad on this one for people who just listen to the podcast and start looking at the slides because.

• 32:51Liam McAnderson?

  Give us that YouTube engagement, nerds.

• 32:53November Kelly?

  We, I mean, I, I like a livery. I, but, but my problem as ever is, um, every airline designed a good livery in like 1965. And then they made, this is something that I'm actually like socially conservative about is they designed a good livery once, and then they kept changing it and making it worse. And they should like, it's, it's always the thing where they're like, oh, we've introduced this like a special fun bonus PR activity. We've gone, we've gone to like a throwback thing. And it's like, if it's so good and fun, why didn't you keep it?

• 33:24Justin Roczniak?

  I would say the railroads also did something similar. I think most stuff did something similar like, you know, back when you could produce like a big graphic design book, like a corporate identity book, you know, you don't have that anymore. You know, people put a lot of thought into the, the design of these things. And now it's kind of like, I don't know, put a vinyl wrap of, uh, swish or something on there.

• 33:48November Kelly?

  Yeah, this, you know, you know what it is mostly that I think could fix all of this is if you went back to the kind of livery that gives the plane the kind of like black nose cone, that would be, uh, that would be a big deal for me because all the ones that I like have that. And now it's just like, oh, the stripes just like terminate there or whatever.

• 34:08Justin Roczniak?

  As I mentioned earlier, we need to go back to Pacific Southwest Airlines thought, big smile on the front, big black nose like a friendly dog.

• 34:17November Kelly?

  Yeah, the plane should be more like a dog. I don't, I don't know why this is controversial. It shouldn't be.

• 34:23Justin Roczniak?

  Anyway, I think this part is for Maya.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yes. So this is, this is the, uh, regular triple seven, which is, uh, where we're going to get started today. Uh, these four were like four of the original launch customers for it. I only chose them because they're for the slide because I think the liveries look nice. All of these, all of these were, you know, 1960s through 1980s and 90s logos or livers, rather. So, you know, lost art. People tend to think I'm crazy about the United one, but I stand by it.

• 34:56Justin Roczniak?

  The United one is good. Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Yes, I think, I think that, I think a plane that is not just white is something that we've lost sight of. And, you know, they don't, they don't do the bare aluminum either because planes are made out of too many things now.

• 35:11November Kelly?

  Yeah. I mean, the thing is like, people used to do this with cars as well. And then, like, people started thinking about resale value, much like airport, much like, uh, fucking hell, much like airlines did. And so everything just became like white or silver. And in a really generic way. And it's like, people used to have cars that came painted from the factory in colors other than white or silver.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Red.

• 35:35Justin Roczniak?

  So my, my friend, June, has been on the podcast, got courtesy towed yesterday.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Why?

• 35:42Justin Roczniak?

  And I had to help her because she parked in a space and then that space, they did construction there. So they moved her car to next location. And I had to help her find it yesterday. And I was just astonished, like trying to look at all the damn cars in the city. They, there's like three kinds of car and like three colors of car these days.

• 36:03Liam McAnderson?

  It's all a crossover and they all hate you. Cars suck now.

• 36:06Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, it's safer than ever and you can get more power than ever. No, no, we're just power. We're shut the fuck up.

• 36:11Justin Roczniak?

  No, they're, they're all, they all look the same. They're all identical. They're white, they're gray or they're black.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. No, it, it, car design now is so like mono, like just monoculture in a way that's really grim and depressing.

• 36:26November Kelly?

  Generic.

• 36:27Justin Roczniak?

  It's awful. It's awful. Anyway, it took about like an hour and a half of searching, but we found it.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 36:33Justin Roczniak?

  And it was parked in a spot that was scheduled to be courtesy towed the next day.

• 36:40November Kelly?

  Just getting your car sequentially express kidnapped.

• 36:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Well, people have had like their cars like impounded after being courtesy towed. And then they had to go to court and the court says, fuck you. We don't know that you didn't park it there.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Right. Sure. Sure.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Private towing is fascism, et cetera, et cetera.

• 37:00November Kelly?

  I believe that, yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  I mean, there is one company making a car that looks different. I believe it's called the Cybertruck.

• 37:08Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, it sure does look different.

• 37:10Justin Roczniak?

  It do look different. That's true.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Different parentheses derogatory.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  Anyway, this United delivery is called, they call it the Battleship Gray, which is funny to me because the word Battleship really pisses off my wife in particular, and that's the only reason I find it funny. Next slide. So the 777 started sometime in the mid 1980s to fill sort of a gap that existed in the Boeing product line because they had the 757 and the 767.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  And, you know, those were both doing pretty well, but like, if you wanted anything bigger than that, you had to get the 747. Like, those are expensive, right?

• 37:50November Kelly?

  Like, a lot of people doing like, sort of like car salesman hard sell stuff and being like, yeah, a lot of airlines find themselves kind of intimidated about the prospect of owning a plane this cool.

• 38:03Liam McAnderson?

  So they. Are you a bad enough man to rescue the Saturn?

• 38:08Speaker 02

  I don't think anybody's rescuing Boeing or the 747 anymore.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  They initially started as like these Trijet designs, which is another lost art of ours.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  This is, you know, that has the.

• 38:22November Kelly?

  Killed a lot of people, but it looks so good.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. But like, that was, that was just McDonnell Douglas's fault, right? Like, the engine itself, except on United 232, which was another, we call that a callback. There was another episode.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Except in like two specific cases, the design itself has not killed anybody. It was mostly there for.

• 38:47November Kelly?

  Your honor, accepting these two cases.

• 38:51Liam McAnderson?

  That's a lot of flights that went successfully.

• 38:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no one ever talks about when the planes don't crash.

• 38:58November Kelly?

  Count the rings.

• 39:02Justin Roczniak?

  Look, I've flown on the MAX twice now. I was fine.

• 39:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I'm sure you had a bully good time.

• 39:10Justin Roczniak?

  I didn't. You were there.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  I got to fly the MAX before they grounded them all. That's really exhilarating to know in hindsight. Yeah, the third engine was mostly a regulatory thing. The FAA didn't want to let planes with two engines fly over an ocean. This is pretty much all there is to it. It wasn't by the time the like mid 60s rolled around, it wasn't actually planes could get across. Jet engines were reliable enough that they could cross an ocean with two engines. It was fine. But the Carter and the Reagan FAA's said something to the respects of no way in hell I will let a twin airliner cross the Atlantic Ocean, which is a really strange thing to have such an aggressive opinion on.

• 39:53Liam McAnderson?

  It's very, yeah, I was gonna say, okay.

• 39:54November Kelly?

  I think it's one of those like common sense things, right? It's like if you, what if you lose like both engines and then the opening of Bioshock happens to you?

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:05Justin Roczniak?

  I believe that's also why the Sela Express is restricted from using its tilting mechanism where it'd be most useful.

• 40:14Justin Roczniak?

  Or some similar insane decision like that.

• 40:17November Kelly?

  It's so funny to me that like you can actually find examples of like regulatory overreach or whatever if you bother to look. But it's like, it's never the ones the conservatives worry about. They're too busy like hunting down pronouns.

• 40:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they're trying to figure out a way to make child labor come back.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  I looked this up. It was Reagan's FAA director who said, quote, "It'll be a cold day in hell before I let twins fly over water routes." Close quote, which is really funny because he cared a lot about safety in that respect, but did not care about it in terms of air traffic control, which is why, of course, they did the Reagan FAA ruined air traffic control unions in this country.

• 41:03Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, the final, as Hunter Thompson said, a final dirty, the dirt, the final dirty victory of management over labor when they broke the Patco strike.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Well, and the thing is, like, the Patco and the unions in general reacted so weakly to it that, like, it's what that's like, why the White House is just saying they can end collective bargaining for all federal employees because they pointed this precedent and go, look, they're not going to fight back too hard. And like, they might be right about that, but it's bullshit.

• 41:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  So I have a lot of opinions about labor, but that's a different podcast episode, I think. So by, so where was I here? Yeah. So these were the two of the first designs. The, in the mid 80s, the FAA starts entertaining the idea of letting planes fly over water with two engines. They eventually decide to, they call it ETOPS, E T O P S, extended range, twin engine, something.

• 42:04November Kelly?

  It stands for engines turn or passengers swim.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:08Justin Roczniak?

  I was also going to say that, yes.

• 42:11November Kelly?

  We've all heard the one joke about this.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  So by the time that, so by the time that they come out with that, Boeing gets, ditches these designs entirely because they don't need to anymore. Next slide, please. I like having a TA like person to next slide for me. It's quite nice. McDonald Douglas had already started building a one with three engines by this point. So they just said, fuck it and kept doing it. That was the MD 11. It didn't do too well for a lot of reasons, but like, you can probably guess the one because I think I just said it.

• 42:45November Kelly?

  They used these for cargo for a, for a while longer, didn't they?

• 42:48Speaker 02

  They still do, actually. Might just be in the US. UPS and FedEx love them, but.

• 42:54Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. Cause they got more power.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  And they're cheap. That's the more important thing there. Yeah. So like by, by the later 80s, like every airline, every major airline has like a fleet of DC 10s or Tri Stars that are now very old and they would like to retire and get something. nicer. So there, there are two planes in the U. S. That get shopped around for that. One is the, the MD 11 pictured at the bottom right here, but also the, the original triple seven pictured at the top left. Airbus also tries to shop the AF 30 around. That doesn't really go anywhere.

• 43:30November Kelly?

  Yeah, people are still big on like, uh, you know, die by wire. Uh, every French person has

• 43:37Justin Roczniak?

  big Americans muscle plane.

• 43:41Liam McAnderson?

  Can't corner, however, on a prep surface, this thing could really scream.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  So, uh, one thing to remember, one thing that's important about the MD 11 specifically was that, uh, a lot of its various designs and systems were both wildly cost cut and outsourced extensively. And the, the end result of that is the reason a lot of people give for why McDonnell Douglas gave up on, uh, making well, commercial aircraft, but also gave up being a company.

• 44:14November Kelly?

  Oh, dear.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, now they, they didn't, they didn't go out of business. That's going, that's going to be important later, as is the outsourcing part. That's going to be very important later. Um, the MD 11, which I'm going to talk about for a minute because it is important, even though it may not sound like it. I'm just going to talk about how bad it is.

• 44:33November Kelly?

  Just a series, a short slide about kicking the absolute shit out of this trijet.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:37November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Which is funny, uh, which is a shame because I really like it. It's, it's really cute, but like.

• 44:44November Kelly?

  Stuck as a plane.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Yes. Uh, American Airlines was one of the, not, they weren't a launch customer, but they bought them fairly early on because McDonnell Douglas told them it could fly from Dallas to Hong Kong nonstop.

• 44:57Liam McAnderson?

  That's a, that feels like a lie.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Well, it was, they, they found that out like immediately.

• 45:04Justin Roczniak?

  All right. I can't actually can't do, how did you find out? Oh, well, it never showed up.

• 45:10Liam McAnderson?

  It's in the ocean. We could see it from here.

• 45:12November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, just like every, at the, at the entire, like, um, sort of like passenger compartment of, uh, the flight coming out of Dallas, just throwing their 10 gallon hats on the ground. They find out they're not going to make it.

• 45:26Liam McAnderson?

  We used to be Super Bowl champions.

• 45:29Liam McAnderson?

  The last time the Dallas Cowboys won a Super Bowl, uh, my wife was not yet born. So. Go Eagles.

• 45:36Justin Roczniak?

  Go birds.

• 45:37November Kelly?

  In fairness, they were cooking with the throwing your hat on the ground to indicate you this pleasure thing. But then you gotta pick up your own hat and dust it off, which sucks.

• 45:46Justin Roczniak?

  Where do you divert to? That's what I want to know.

• 45:53Liam McAnderson?

  I don't like that nervous laughter is our answer to that.

• 45:57November Kelly?

  It's like a bunch of, a bunch of like Dallas business people landing in Osiris.

• 46:05November Kelly?

  So what, what in tarnation? It's a disputed island between Japan and Russia.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Uh, so they, they go to McDonnell Douglas to ask what the hell, because the plane doesn't do what they promised. Um, McDonnell, McDonnell Douglas puts them on what they call, um, swear to God, I'm reading this from the documentation. They call it a performance improvement plan.

• 46:26November Kelly?

  Like an employee? Like you put an employee on?

• 46:30Speaker 02

  That, that is.

• 46:31Liam McAnderson?

  I've been pimped. Fuck you.

• 46:36November Kelly?

  Just like calling the plane into a mandatory meeting.

• 46:40Justin Roczniak?

  What would you say you do here? And the response is just a high pitched jet engine one.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Response is not fly to Hong Kong.

• 46:52Liam McAnderson?

  I can't do high pitched jet engine, but I can do R2D2 and I apologize to anyone who had to hear that.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  So them and the engine manufacturer, who I did not write down, and I assume is probably General Electric, but I'm not sure off the top of my head.

• 47:07Liam McAnderson?

  Butthole Motors Inc. Yeah.

• 47:11November Kelly?

  Yeah, this is buy not Rolls Royce, buy twice.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  They, so they, they said they went back, this took like a year and a half. They went back to American Airlines and told them that they had fixed the plane and went to all, and said that to all their customers, uh, but it still couldn't fly to Hong Kong.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  So American just gives up and sells them all to FedEx for probably half what they paid for them like five years prior.

• 47:36November Kelly?

  That they gotta have like a lemon law or something.

• 47:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Liam McAnderson?

  I've been law for my big ass plane, yeah.

• 47:45Justin Roczniak?

  Cash for clunkers.

• 47:47Liam McAnderson?

  One eight seven seven cars for planes.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  So this was 1995. So these were like brand new planes and to get a brand new plane converted directly to a cargo jet. It's not a good sign for your business if you are doing nothing but cargo aircraft. It's also important to remember about Boeing.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  So in designing the triple seven Boeing just started fresh completely and they came up with this twin engine design, which the airline with a group of major airlines had input on. I don't have the list in front of me, but like the three major legacy American carriers were on there. British Airways was on there.

• 48:25November Kelly?

  Yeah, functionally, I'm envisioning an airline version of like the the sort of like priest scene from Hail Caesar.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Right, or the.

• 48:35November Kelly?

  Trying to get all these different guys to agree on the nature of the airplane.

• 48:40Liam McAnderson?

  The five families meeting for the mob, I think is what we're looking at here.

• 48:46Justin Roczniak?

  I'm imagining like a sort of. Sort of airline common turn.

• 48:52Liam McAnderson?

  All right, I fuck with the phrase airline common turn.

• 48:55November Kelly?

  Yeah, I want to be on that after the revolution. I want to be on that.

• 48:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  It was the three of the major American airlines, the three that still exist, but like they weren't the only ones at the time, corporate mergers. I pulled the list up on the pawn airways in Japan Airlines, American, Delta, United, Qantas, British and Cathay Pacific. So that's what? The US, Japan, Britain, Australia and Hong Kong, who are the major superpowers of the world.

• 49:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, Air Canada gets left in the cold.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 49:24Liam McAnderson?

  You guys have heard of Five Eyes, but not for you.

• 49:27Justin Roczniak?

  They were in the cold to start out with. It's Canada.

• 49:29Liam McAnderson?

  I dig.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  You're lucky you're so cute.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Boeing tells them the design by like nineteen ninety one ish. United immediately orders a shit ton of them. American also does because they're really pissed off about the MD elevens.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Delta also gets it. It's really hard to underestimate how mad they were that they got sold a plane.

• 49:57Liam McAnderson?

  This MD eleven revenge game, basically.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  There are two companies that make planes at this point. Nobody had heard of Airbus yet.

• 50:06Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Except for.

• 50:07Liam McAnderson?

  I just gotta use the bathroom. I'm sorry. I drank three cans of liquid.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  I have five. I have five drinks in front of me. So like, it's fine.

• 50:14Liam McAnderson?

  You amazing, Maya.

• 50:15November Kelly?

  Just be, yeah, these were firmly the like, the, the, like, what the fuck is a kilometer? Yes.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, because the, I think by this point, the only airline, I actually wrote about this in the notes.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Airbus starts shopping the A three thirty around like nineteen ninety years ago. The only, I think, like, the only major American airline that had bought airbuses by this point. It was like, American trialed the A three hundreds for a while. They didn't like them too much, so they didn't order more of them. But they flew them until like two thousand nine.

• 50:50Justin Roczniak?

  Why, why does this plane keep calling me the arsler?

• 50:58Justin Roczniak?

  Should have thought about that.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Northwest Airlines was, I think, the only other airline that bought a bunch of Airbus aircraft. Because they had like the oldest fleet in the country at that point. Most of, mostly DC tens were the issue here. So they bought a bunch of A three twenties initially, but they also bought a bunch of A three thirties.

• 51:22November Kelly?

  Understandable to be like, we're, we're, we're new and modern. If previous to that, you, your Northwestern flight had been, we kick you out of a C forty seven. Like, it's D day.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  It's, it's funny, actually, because like, they bought new plane, they bought the new airbuses, but like, they didn't get rid of most of their older planes until like the two thousands. And even then.

• 51:41Liam McAnderson?

  Even then, just like, I could see daylight through the floor.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Even then, they kept a lot of them until they got bought by Delta. Which is why the DC nines were built in like the seventies and early eighties. And I got the fly on one in like two thousand fifteen, which was a slightly fucked experience. It was the, the most bare bones. Plane experience you can imagine, but it was interesting. It was loud as hell. I don't even remember where I was flying. I just remember the plane was really loud, but um.

• 52:11November Kelly?

  Yeah, you started out being able to remember.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. Yeah, Northwest bought some of them. US Air also bought a bunch of A330s. Yeah. A330s, but that was mostly because Airbus gave them a good deal because they didn't have a long haul fleet at that point and they wanted to get a customer.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  I don't know any of the details of that. I'm calling this kind of an educated guess, but like I could talk a lot about US Airways. Mostly because I hate them because I'm from Pittsburgh, but um, in any case.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  See if I, I could talk about that for a while. And if I keep thinking I'm going to get mad, so I'm going to move on.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  The, the, the design of the plane you see at top left was done by 1993 and they built it and finished it. April 9th, 1994, which was almost 31 years ago, like four days ago, I guess.

• 53:12Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they created, they did it. They created the perfect aircraft.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  They, they did actually create the perfect aircraft with this one. It's the, it's the other ones, the other derivatives that are a problem.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  It first flies in June and they give it to a customer on May 15th, 1995, which the first airline that flies them is United. It sort of becomes the flagship of United's fleet and also sort of like the American fleet. Like the 747 was still out, but by this point it was kind of dwindling because we were gradually moving away from planes that big. And as a matter of fact, they had actually gotten permission from the government to fly even longer than the original ETOPS specification. ETOPS 180 was designed for, with the 777 in mind and all the new planes they built were certified with that. The MD 11s weren't, so that was not great for anybody. Um, sorry, I'm just kicking the shit out of the MD 11 still, but.

• 54:14Justin Roczniak?

  McDonnell Douglas deserves it at least.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  In 1997 Boeing launches the triple seven 200 extended range, which is just the same version of the original plane that can fly longer. They also do the triple seven 300, which is longer and has more people in it. And by I use the end of the millennium as the standpoint here, we're going to go back in time a couple of years to it'll make sense.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  By the end of the millennium, Boeing delivered 261 triple sevens and had another 177. They were building over a million total flight hours, like a 99% dispatch reliability. This was this was the perfect plane.

• 54:57Liam McAnderson?

  This seems like it's going well. Right. I was gonna say like, so I do have a question because I don't really know anything about commercial aviation, other than I hate flying.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 55:05Liam McAnderson?

  What's the average like not order size, but like, I understand there are various, like, it sounded like they had about 400 planes either delivered or sort of like in the in the oven.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:16Liam McAnderson?

  And that is that normal? Is that a lot? Is that a little?

• 55:18Speaker 02

  That that is well, for a longer haul aircraft like that nowadays, that would be considered that would be considered a reasonable amount of total overall planes, orders and deliveries.

• 55:29Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  It's it's kind of a low amount of orders compared to like modern long haul aircraft, but that's because everybody got worse at building planes, not because of anything else.

• 55:39Liam McAnderson?

  Okay.

• 55:39Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I I mean, the the thing that I want to say here is that you, at least to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a fatal accident on a triple seven attributable to like a mechanical failure. Other than MH370, we don't know what happened there. Yes, yeah.

• 55:59November Kelly?

  But they should print that on the outside of the plane. So I'm less nervous getting on one.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  In.

• 56:06Justin Roczniak?

  This is this is God's own airplane. This is the greatest commercial airplane ever.

• 56:13Liam McAnderson?

  You hate planes.

• 56:14Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 56:17November Kelly?

  You're like, this is the the solution to the problem of plane.

• 56:21Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. What if you just made the plane really good?

• 56:23Liam McAnderson?

  Okay, yeah. But here's the thing, you would still refuse to fly on it, bud.

• 56:26Justin Roczniak?

  A triple seven? No, I'm always happy when I see a triple.

• 56:29Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, but you're never happy flying is what I mean. So like.

• 56:32Justin Roczniak?

  Well, yeah, because it's usually like eight hours transatlantic and miserable.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  My, my girlfriend once flew a triple seven from like Newark, New Jersey to I think Shanghai and got diverted.

• 56:45Liam McAnderson?

  Jesus fucking Christ, that sucks.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Well, no, got diverted to the middle of nowhere freezing Canada.

• 56:52Liam McAnderson?

  Like Gardner?

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Not yeah.

• 56:55Justin Roczniak?

  Gander.

• 56:56Liam McAnderson?

  Goosebumps. Get her. Okay. So we're up there. Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Goosebumps. Um, this is a funny story because this is just a funny story that she likes to tell us. But like, uh, Canadian immigration wasn't open at the airport. So nobody could actually go anywhere. Uh, the, the crew timed out. Basically they all stood, they all had to stand around negative five degrees for like 20 hours or some figure like that. And it's, but like, it didn't kill anybody.

• 57:20November Kelly?

  Yeah. So it's not the plane that doesn't inconvenience you.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Here's the, yeah, yeah. Here's the thing, right? This is the case for like every aviation geek out there is that you, you love the plane, but you don't like to fly on it.

• 57:32Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. I, I will say, I actually had one of the only pleasant transatlantic flights on a triple seven. Cause I was booked in a row that had no one else in it.

• 57:41Liam McAnderson?

  I've done that. Yeah. And I'm just like, oh, you know, I don't have, actually I'm turning my webcam on just for this. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hey, Toots, bring me two martinis.

• 57:54Justin Roczniak?

  Well, no, I was too young to drink, unfortunately.

• 57:58Liam McAnderson?

  I'm sorry.

• 57:58Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Yeah. But I, I, what I did do was I read catch 22 cover to cover for the first time.

• 58:04Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, you had a good flight.

• 58:05Justin Roczniak?

  That was a really good flight. It was also during the daytime. There was no turbulence. It was fantastic.

• 58:12Justin Roczniak?

  Rare flight experience these days.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I, I flew the only, I've only flown a triple seven to, from like Toronto to Tokyo, which is kind of a weird route. But, uh, it was, it was rather smooth and the snack, the pre-landing snack was, um, cup noodle. So ultimately I'm not complaining about that.

• 58:29Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, that sounds pretty good. Yeah.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was, it was pretty good. I mean, like 13 hour time, time difference is fucking crazy, but that's a different problem.

• 58:36Liam McAnderson?

  That sounds like it sucks.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it did.

• 58:39Justin Roczniak?

  The cup noodle sounds like way better than the standard airline fare.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. This, this was their Canada. So like, we're obviously, we're, we're still in North America. We're out of the U S and are like worst airlines on earth, but we are still in North America.

• 58:52Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. They, they take away the poutine. They give you the cup noodle.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  About right, actually.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  So basically, basically, the triple seven was a very good plane and the MD 11 was very comfortable for customers, but the airlines hated it.

• 59:09November Kelly?

  Yeah, so the previous slide, like passing the triple seven on the nose and like popping the MD 11 with a newspaper.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:17Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Spray it with the spray bottle.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  And also then the MD 11 like killed a bunch of people with the Swissair flight in which was considered a mechanical disaster until we found out it was the inflight entertainment system, which Boeing didn't build, but.

• 59:31Justin Roczniak?

  The what?

• 59:33November Kelly?

  I mean, not, not to kind of like preempt a future episode there, but this is.

• 59:37Justin Roczniak?

  Push the wings fall off button on the chair?

• 59:40November Kelly?

  This is the terror that I have. It's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna select the wrong movie and one of the engines drops off.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  I, I, I will give a brief rundown on this as I can. So Swiss.

• 59:57November Kelly?

  Okay. So, so say no more, say no more. That's the future episode. If you could just like play some mood music over that for a second. Thank you so much. Moving on.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  I could come back for that one.

• 1:00:08November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the, the MD 11 was considered kind of a failure for a lot of reasons. That was one of them, even though it turned out to kind of be fake, but whatever. At least in terms of McDonnell Douglas's problem. I said Boeing earlier. I was wrong.

• 1:00:23Liam McAnderson?

  How dare you? Oh, execution. Sorry, Maya.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  That's okay. That's okay. That's okay. Cause that's a good segue. Next slide, please.

• 1:00:32Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, no.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  1997, McDonnell Douglas has a commercial airline or airplane division that is failing and a defense division that is absolutely fucking massive from every, from every respects.

• 1:00:48November Kelly?

  And this is the thing, if you're, if you're kind of in the civilian airliner business and the military business, military aircraft business and your tagline for both is we'll kill you. That's only gonna work as a sales pitch for one of them.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  This is true. Yeah. Boeing was on a bit of a corporate buyout spree by this point.

• 1:01:08November Kelly?

  I will, I will have the McDonnell Douglas will kill you t-shirt up on sale.

• 1:01:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I can help you commission that. I don't know if it's commissioning if it's us doing it, but.

• 1:01:25November Kelly?

  Yeah, well, no, I would like to commission a little illustration of an MD 11 with the like third engine just flying off, you know?

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, I did, I've done shirt designs for you guys. I could do that, but I can't make the plane explode, unfortunately.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Boeing has fucking billions of dollars and aren't sure what to do with it, so they just start buying out everybody.

• 1:01:47November Kelly?

  Yeah, me, when I start buying planes because I'm bored.

• 1:01:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yep.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  They buy North American Aviation from Rockwell. That's mostly a defense company. I think it was entirely a defense company by this point, actually.

• 1:01:58November Kelly?

  This is the bit where they kill all of the like beloved names that were last heard of when like your great grandpa was flying against a Japanese carrier air group. Where you're like, oh man, not Chance Vaught or whatever. And to be clear, I love that shit, but.

• 1:02:15Justin Roczniak?

  This is, this is just like, that they're the Macy's of airplanes.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  That's true, actually.

• 1:02:23Liam McAnderson?

  If you have to use the sentence, my airplane is what you could call an institution. We might be struggling a bit here. Oh, my God.

• 1:02:32November Kelly?

  You're McDonnell Douglas today?

• 1:02:35Liam McAnderson?

  Do I want, we'll kill you.

• 1:02:40November Kelly?

  It's, it's just a real like Apollo 13 looking motherfucker with the like shirt sleeves and the pocket protector and the crew cart being like, oh, kill you.

• 1:02:48Justin Roczniak?

  Gonna walk home directly in a straight line.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  I like the Macy's metaphor, actually. That's, that's pretty funny because you have one of the Philadelphia department stores that got bought up by them completely. But also they did that to Kaufman's on this side of the state. So it's relatable to both of the Pennsylvanian experiences.

• 1:03:11Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. And then, you know, Wanamakers was, you know, but when they were under United Department Stores, at least they let them keep the brand and then Macy's came in was like, no, fuck you. Couple of weeks ago, they closed down the Center City store. Who knows what's gonna happen to the Oregon? Anyway.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Boeing buys North American. They also decide to buy McDonnell Douglas.

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  Which, and you know, this is so this gave them like a not a monopoly, but it gave them a pretty powerful foothold in the defense, like a controlling interest in defense contracts.

• 1:03:49November Kelly?

  I don't appreciate that they've lined up the two planes then side by side. They should be facing each other like they're like kissing.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's true. Actually, yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  So the, yeah, they have a large, not monopoly, but close to it on defense aircraft. The only other major contractor is like Lockheed Martin. Which not as big at this point in history. Anyway.

• 1:04:16Justin Roczniak?

  But they have a Skunk Works and Boeing doesn't.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:04:19Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  They also did the Blackbird, which makes them much cooler than anything Boeing could ever make.

• 1:04:24November Kelly?

  We don't even know what part of Boeing smells bad.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  I have been to the main assembly to the assembly plans in Everett. I can assure you that it does smell that it smells bad there.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Actually, okay, I'm gonna brief side check because I mentioned that, but my favorite part of that tour was the the tour guide at one point is showing us the seven, six assembly line or what of it or what there is of it. And our tour guide, who is like this, who is this? Who is this transgender twink holding a can of Monster?

• 1:04:56November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah. I love Washington.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So points to an aircraft on the assembly line and says that it's bound for Air China. Then I look at it and it has the China Airlines logo on the side of it. Which is, you know, that's a geopolitical problem you just started there.

• 1:05:14November Kelly?

  Ah, one of them.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16November Kelly?

  But Boeing Boeing does support the one China policy. It's just not going to say which one.

• 1:05:22Liam McAnderson?

  Good enough.

• 1:05:22November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  It was, they actually had an exhibit in the little, in their like headhouse for guests that was like Boeing in China 50 year anniversary. And it had like the red, the red stars graphics and everything. It was.

• 1:05:34Liam McAnderson?

  Incredible.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  It was a little weird.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  So the board of directors of the merged Boeing McDonald Douglas company was largely, largely consisted of the McDonald Douglas board at this, after this. And once 2003 comes around, they would actually replace the CEO of Boeing with CEO, former CEO of McDonald Douglas.

• 1:05:53November Kelly?

  The master plan.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:05:55November Kelly?

  Make a bad airplane.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57November Kelly?

  And then infiltrate like a grub, like a worm, like a, like a, like a sort of like cordyceps. Are you infiltrate the more successful company?

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, I understand that all y'all have been making very good airplanes here, but.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  We're here to fuck that up.

• 1:06:14Justin Roczniak?

  Have you considered making bad airplanes?

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  So this is, the, the point that most people point to for when Boeing starts getting bad is when they move from Seattle to Chicago, which was 2001.

• 1:06:30Liam McAnderson?

  And now they're in Crystal City, right?

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, not yet, but they will be.

• 1:06:35Justin Roczniak?

  Oh crap. God, no one should be there.

• 1:06:38Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:39Justin Roczniak?

  Just demolish the neighborhood. Put the Potomac yard back up.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:06:44Liam McAnderson?

  Straight down.

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  I, I wrote, I, I wrote an article about this, which is where the, the idea for the slide deck came from, but it's Boeing moving to be very close to the Pentagon is very.

• 1:06:55Liam McAnderson?

  On brand.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Also interesting from a business standpoint, because like, I'm going to talk about this in a minute, but like their commercial business, their commercial business now was interesting to look at. As a better effect, I have this written in the notes here because it's relevant now, because in the year 2000, the commercial Boeing commercial airplanes, their portfolio was the 737 classic and next generation. They made both of them. Those are the 300, 400, 500 and 600, 700, 800 variants. They're very common.

• 1:07:24November Kelly?

  They gotta give them names. It's giving me a headache.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  They're very common. If you've flown Southwest, you know what a triple, you know what a seven three seven next gen looks like.

• 1:07:32November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  They had the seven four seven, which was on the four hundred variant by this point. They had the seven five seven and the seven six seven and the triple seven. And they were still building MD elevens, just the freighters. And they were building the seven one seven, which was, which was known as the McDonald Douglas MD ninety five. When it was being developed, but then Boeing bought out the company and most people thought they were going to kill the project because it is, it fills the same market. And he says the seven three seven. They didn't. And I don't think we really know why.

• 1:08:07Liam McAnderson?

  Why have one when I could have two?

• 1:08:09Justin Roczniak?

  It seems like, you know, if, if, if I want, if I were an airline and I needed some airplanes, I could go to Boeing and I could get a wide variety of different aircraft, which were all very good.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Yes, you could go to Boeing and you could buy a Boeing, or you could go to Boeing and buy a McDonald Douglas. So, you know, that's a

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  that is a wide variety.

• 1:08:31November Kelly?

  Show me, show me the bad planes.

• 1:08:34Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, actually, can I get a bad plane?

• 1:08:39November Kelly?

  Can you show me to the bad side of the lot?

• 1:08:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Um, the, the seven.

• 1:08:43Justin Roczniak?

  What can I do to put you into McDonald Douglas today?

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  The, the seven ones.

• 1:08:50Justin Roczniak?

  Fly it right off the lot.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Boeing has kind of done that before, but regardless. Well, I, I, the, the, the seven three seven max, where they had all of them parked like a fucking car dealership lot. As quite famously seen in pictures and also later in the slideshow that I forgot I included there.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, the seven one seven, I don't know why it existed. Delta loves them. I kind of like flying on them because I like the T-tail, you know, the ones with the engines at the back. They're loud, but they're fun.

• 1:09:21Justin Roczniak?

  They can stall in exciting ways.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  They can. That's true. There's, there was that, there was that one regional flight that the two regional pilots took up to fifty thousand feet. This is like a jackass stunt and then crashed it.

• 1:09:35November Kelly?

  Just flying, flying with either of you sounds like a nightmare because as we're about to get on, I'm craning my neck to read the reassuring text. And then one of you like clapping on the shoulder and goes, hey, did you know that this can stall in an entirely like new way?

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  Well, that last one I was talking about didn't kill any passengers, just the two pilots, which just kind of-

• 1:09:57Justin Roczniak?

  It was like a ferrying flight, right? And they were, they were, um, they were just like, oh, let's see what it can do.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  I believe they literally said that, actually.

• 1:10:07Liam McAnderson?

  Brutal.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  It was a CRJ, so if you ever, so it was also a tiny plane. So additional suffering there. You were dying in the smallest plane imaginable.

• 1:10:17Liam McAnderson?

  I don't want to do that.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  It was like the one that flipped over, the Delta one that flipped over in Toronto earlier this year, but like even smaller because it was an older one.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Okay, that's the end of the McDonnell Douglas slide. So next slide. Uh, starting in, back to the triple seven specifically, uh, starting in the 1997, they would start designing what they called the second generation of triple seven models, which were the, they wanted to extend the range of the 200, they, they wanted to extend the range of both of them, basically. Um, the code name for this project was the triple seven dash X, which is not to be confused with the triple seven X that is the main subject of this slideshow.

• 1:10:58Liam McAnderson?

  What?

• 1:10:58Justin Roczniak?

  This is a different X.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:01Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:02Liam McAnderson?

  Here on X, the everything plane.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  That's true. Uh, they were also building the seven four seven dash X and the MD 11 dash X was, had been in development. I don't know. There's a bit of an Elon Musk thing going on here. I don't quite understand it.

• 1:11:17Liam McAnderson?

  It stands for exciting ways to die.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:11:21Justin Roczniak?

  These planes were fine though. You probably were not gonna die on-

• 1:11:24Liam McAnderson?

  Shut up. Shut the hell up.

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Uh, the triple seven 300 X, which became the 300 ER, which you're looking at now, thank God. Uh, they launched that in 2000. They launched the dash 200 LR long range in 2005. I don't actually quite know why they called it that off the top of my head.

• 1:11:44Justin Roczniak?

  So ER is extended range and LR is-

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  LR is long, LR is long range. I don't know the difference though.

• 1:11:51Justin Roczniak?

  Well, is it like a an EP versus an LP?

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  I mean, that's the only thing I could really.

• 1:11:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Think of.

• 1:11:57Justin Roczniak?

  And I forget which one is longer.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  There there's all this.

• 1:12:01Liam McAnderson?

  An LP is longer.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, the yeah, an LP is like is usually like a full 12 inch album.

• 1:12:06Justin Roczniak?

  Ah, OK.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  I'm actually going to look this up real quick on the range because I'm vaguely curious. OK, so the triple seven, so the 200 ER extended range can go 7,065 nautical miles, which is 8,130 miles. There's a kilometers number as well. That's not important.

• 1:12:30Liam McAnderson?

  That's not real.

• 1:12:32Justin Roczniak?

  It's not a real measurement. Yeah.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  The long range one can go 8,555 nautical miles or 9,845 miles. So you have a long range is longer than the extended range.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  I I'm not sure. I don't know. I'm quite confused here and I'm the one that wrote the slides.

• 1:12:50Justin Roczniak?

  That feels like about as long as I need to go.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I need to go longer than that.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, because this is what this I'm trying to remember. I think this is what Singapore Airlines used for their like 28 hour routes for directly to the US, which they don't fly anymore.

• 1:13:08Justin Roczniak?

  That sounds like hell.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does. Yeah, they don't fly it anymore for a good reason. Also, it was very expensive because why wouldn't it be?

• 1:13:15Justin Roczniak?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, the these second generation aircraft are also perfectly normal planes with no major issues and were popular with the airlines loved them as well. Can't say anything bad about them. They have a the code name was very stupid, but otherwise that's pretty much it. By the time the 200 LR enters service, though, it's still a 10 year old design. So, you know, they got to get started working on like the the replacement for them, by which I mean a derivative, because Boeing doesn't build anything new anymore.

• 1:13:43Justin Roczniak?

  Right.

• 1:13:44November Kelly?

  Yes.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  With with the exception of the next slide, which was to replace the seven, six, seven, and also try and claw back the market share they had lost to the A three thirty very rapidly. Even in the US notably, but also in Europe. You know, US Airways and Northwest were both major airlines by this point. And the A three thirty, you could train their crews on the cockpit of an A three twenty, and they could also use the cockpit of an A three thirty. It saved money for everybody. So suddenly, the Europeans are rather popular with airlines in the US, with the exception of those that want to preserve their American-only heritage, which at the time was a concerning amount of them. Like, trying to think, in the mid two thousands, United, Delta,

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Alaska, and American with, except for one type of plane, were all Boeing only, because they were in the US, and we have civic pride here.

• 1:14:37Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. This is true. I mean, you know, there's nothing we love more than a monopoly.

• 1:14:43Liam McAnderson?

  America. Yeah, it's patriotic to be a, what's that called? A corporatocracy. Whatever. Yeah, whatever they ran in the novo estado in Portugal. Corporat.

• 1:14:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:14:57Liam McAnderson?

  Hey, don't be sassy.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  To be fair, we also bought most of our regional jets from Canada. So it was more like a, more like a NAFTA corporatocracy than.

• 1:15:08Justin Roczniak?

  You know, that the fifty first state.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  This is true.

• 1:15:15Justin Roczniak?

  I shouldn't even say that.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  No. Oh, God, the pain.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  So to replace the seven, five, and seven, six, and try to beat the shit out of the A three thirty, they do the seven, eight, seven. They launched that in two thousand and three. It's pictured here in the last good airline livery.

• 1:15:35Justin Roczniak?

  Air China.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's just like.

• 1:15:37November Kelly?

  Because they designed it once, and it was good, and they stuck with it.

• 1:15:41Justin Roczniak?

  That's how communism works.

• 1:15:43November Kelly?

  That's right.

• 1:15:44Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. They've never had to rewrite Das Capital.

• 1:15:48November Kelly?

  No. Marx did, in fact, consider this.

• 1:15:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, that's always what happens when you read the books. It's like, oh, no, Marx did think of that.

• 1:15:57November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, the Boeing seven, seven, seven X, it's in there.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  So

• 1:16:04Liam McAnderson?

  The fucking moon in the sky?

• 1:16:07Justin Roczniak?

  Nah, that's in there too.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Hang on, I had to clean my glasses. Okay, we're good.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  The seat, whenever they announce this, by the time they announced the seven eight seven, CEO Boeing is the old CEO of McDonnell Douglas that oversaw the MD 11 development. So, um, Boeing management tells engineering to build it for less than 40% of the cost it took to develop the triple seven. And target construction costs at like 60% of what it costs to build.

• 1:16:39Justin Roczniak?

  So you listen, guys, I know you guys built the perfect airplane, God's own airplane. Honestly, though. The pinnacle achievement of human civilization, but could you do it a lot cheaper?

• 1:16:58November Kelly?

  This is, this is very, like Soviet decision making, you know, to respond to the, to the good thing by being like, wow, it's very expensive.

• 1:17:08Justin Roczniak?

  It's very expensive to do this. Well, um, what if we did it really bad?

• 1:17:12Liam McAnderson?

  Bad and cheap. Hell, yeah.

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  Could do an episode on Soviet airliners. Actually, that would be an interesting one.

• 1:17:18Justin Roczniak?

  That would be a fun one.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  You've talked about the, the 144, the Concorde knockoff before, if I remember right, which.

• 1:17:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:28Justin Roczniak?

  Very, yeah, that was only like a couple of slides though. Probably do a whole one on that.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could do a lot of the, a lot of the Russian planes you can, um, which is, which is funny because, you know, air flood is like, we're going to an all Russian fleet in five years. Whenever they have one Russian plane in their fleet right now, it's very funny.

• 1:17:46Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, yeah, those, uh, the illusion is not making too many planes right now. I understand.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:53Justin Roczniak?

  And, uh, I don't think Antonov is going to work with them.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  Antonov mostly needs to work with themselves and stop getting executives arrested for not flying the, the big boy out.

• 1:18:08Justin Roczniak?

  Well, they can't. They blew it up.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but they didn't fly it out beforehand and

• 1:18:13Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, right.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  The Ukrainian government was very unhappy about this. I don't quite know.

• 1:18:17Justin Roczniak?

  I think everyone was unhappy.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  Well, yes, but the Ukrainian government arrested them for it. I'm not quite sure of the details there. It seems a little strange, but it was a cool plane. Somebody deserves to be punished for that.

• 1:18:29Justin Roczniak?

  I need to know more about this now. Yeah.

• 1:18:32Speaker 02

  This is very interesting. Okay, they have three Russian planes in their fleet right now, but they're none of them are long. They have two Yakvaliv, Yakvaliv aircraft, and they have ordered some of the Tupolev's that the North Koreans fly.

• 1:18:48Justin Roczniak?

  I think only like Cubana has like a Soviet wide body at this point.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  I think that's true. They have, what was it? The IL-96 and 86 were like the, those were the big Soviet designs. Cubana has the 96, but I think that one's technically Russian. Yeah, because it was 1992. But it was a Soviet design. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's a plane that also isn't very good.

• 1:19:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's like four engines, right?

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:19:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they didn't have ETAPS in the Soviet Union.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Looks, it looks like a

• 1:19:23November Kelly?

  SOPS in Soviet Parliament stands for Engines Turn or Pilot Shot.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Anyway, back to my topic.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  They, so they, they cut the costs of the, of, fuck, cut the design and construction costs of the 787.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  They, it gets delayed, 787, it gets delayed a bunch of times. We consider, it was considered like a long and ridiculous delay at the time. Not really anymore in hindsight.

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  They and I mean, whenever these planes did finally start existing, it was like 2011 and they were mostly fine, except they would catch fire sometimes, but nobody died. It was only, it only ever happened on the ground. That was an okay plane at the time. So once they launched that, management takes a step back and realizes, oh shit, this A320 thing has started to become a bit of a major problem.

• 1:20:22Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  It's very, very popular with airlines in the US and they had also announced the re-engine version, the A320neo family. You know, the A321neo is like what Delta sticks me on every time I need to fly to Seattle now. It's kind of a boring aircraft. I don't like it too much.

• 1:20:42Liam McAnderson?

  I also don't like it very much.

• 1:20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's not the worst thing in the world. Every time I've gotten on one, the seat back entertainment has had, I saw the TV glow and I've watched it, I think every time.

• 1:20:53November Kelly?

  God, I genuinely can't imagine watching that movie more than once.

• 1:20:57Justin Roczniak?

  When I'm on an airplane, I always watch the same movie, which is Airplane.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  That's true. This is reasonable.

• 1:21:04Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  So what the, the A320neo family was quickly like the quickest selling airliner of all time, period. We're in about 2011 by this point. Those are projected to start flying like in the mid to late 2010s. So they just, so eventually they wake up after American Airlines places an order for like a billion of them. And they're like, oh shit. That's our best company. We can't do that. So then they start working on a re-engine version of the 737, which will take us to the next slide, was of, that was of course the 737 Max.

• 1:21:44Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Plane that needs no introduction.

• 1:21:47Justin Roczniak?

  This, this is always a confusing one because you would think, okay, maybe you at least start with the newer airframe, the 757. And no, no, we're just going to do another 737, guys. You know, it's just because it's like a billion years old.

• 1:22:04November Kelly?

  They really wanted to make a, well, there's your problem episode. And they did.

• 1:22:07Liam McAnderson?

  And who could blame them?

• 1:22:09Justin Roczniak?

  Just because people who were, when this airframe was designed, there were still people who were alive, who shook the hands of Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

• 1:22:21Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's probably not accurate, but.

• 1:22:22Liam McAnderson?

  It's close enough.

• 1:22:23November Kelly?

  Brunel looking at this and it's like, where do you keep the giant lengths of chain?

• 1:22:27Justin Roczniak?

  Where is the coal bunker?

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  So the seven, the seven, three, seven max pictured here, uh, don't ask why they're all lined up like that. Goes very well for them and is never the center of controversy ever again.

• 1:22:44Justin Roczniak?

  There's never been a problem with the seven thirty seven.

• 1:22:46Liam McAnderson?

  Episode thirteen, baby.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say, which is why it's been on, it was on one of the like first episodes of this podcast.

• 1:22:52Justin Roczniak?

  I believe that was episode twelve A.

• 1:22:54November Kelly?

  Twelve A, that's right.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  That was like sixty years ago now, so.

• 1:22:58Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  So after they introduce, after they they create God's greatest seven, three, seven that will never do any wrong. So I'm not going to spend any time on because I could for a long time, but I'm not going to. After they do that, their executives come together and realize, oh, we're also getting our asses beat by the A three fifty. The, uh, the, the wide body sort of triple seven competitive Airbus aircraft. Which, you know, it had been, that had been like announced, trying to think, I think it had been announced in like two thousand and six. And most and they had gotten and like the triple seven had narrowed down to very few orders by this point. Whereas the A three fifties were getting ordered by, uh, like hotcakes. Sorry, I'm pulling up.

• 1:23:42November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's like live by wire now.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:23:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  Sorry, I had to, I had to look up the table.

• 1:23:49Justin Roczniak?

  Airplanes, get your airplanes, airplanes here, get them on a stick.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  This is, so if, if you look at the development of new aircraft, it will, they will usually be unveiled at like the Dubai airshow. And they will usually, and they will usually be, and usually like Boeing or Airbus executives will be like flanked by CEOs of like Emirates and everybody who is ordering a shit ton of these.

• 1:24:14November Kelly?

  I, I hate when I order a, an airplane at the ballpark and they, they throw me the airplane and it enters a fugoid cycle and lands on somebody's lap like two rows down.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:24:27Justin Roczniak?

  I'm just there with the CEO of Turkish Airlines and also Eric Adams.

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  The A350, the A350 is a plane I don't have much to say about. They replaced the old interflug A310s that became the German Air Force One. So I'm a little annoyed about that, but otherwise it's fine.

• 1:24:45November Kelly?

  It was, it was so cool that the German Air Force One was full of rats and was built by communists.

• 1:24:54November Kelly?

  That's genuinely true. It was called Conrad Adenauer and it was full of rats. It had rats. There were rats in there and Merkel was like, why are there rats in my plane? Please get the rats out of my plane. And they're like, we, we cannot. This was something that we got from the East Germans.

• 1:25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, because yeah, interflug had wanted to stop buying Soviet aircraft with the softening of relations and all. So they bought the A310 and got two of them and then ceased to exist like a year later.

• 1:25:20November Kelly?

  There's a lesson there, isn't there about revisionism?

• 1:25:23Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's true. That's true.

• 1:25:24Liam McAnderson?

  That's true.

• 1:25:25Justin Roczniak?

  What they should have done is put cats on the airplane.

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I love cats.

• 1:25:29Justin Roczniak?

  That would have taken care of the rats.

• 1:25:31Liam McAnderson?

  That's true.

• 1:25:32November Kelly?

  And then, then, then maybe you get like a cat problem, but that's fine, you know?

• 1:25:37Justin Roczniak?

  It'd be great to have a cat problem.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Fuck you.

• 1:25:40November Kelly?

  Get on, get on German Air Force One. You're like, why does it smell like cat in here? Why is everything covered in cat fur?

• 1:25:47Justin Roczniak?

  Cats all over the plane.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  They're not going to chew through the wiring. It's fine.

• 1:25:50Liam McAnderson?

  That's true. No, they might. Toby's real stupid.

• 1:25:55Justin Roczniak?

  Oh my God, he took a shit on top of the autopilot controls.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  So yeah, after the 737 MAX launches, the executives have to go back. So they put their greatest minds together and in 2013, they had come up with, next slide, the next generation of the triple seven, instead of anything I actually knew, was the triple seven X, well, was the triple seven nine X and the triple seven eight X.

• 1:26:23November Kelly?

  These people just like letters and numbers at this point, like.

• 1:26:27Justin Roczniak?

  You built a composite aircraft. Just iterate on that.

• 1:26:33November Kelly?

  I, I don't know.

• 1:26:34Justin Roczniak?

  We're going to go back to a 20 year old airframe.

• 1:26:37November Kelly?

  I, I don't know why they've done a kind of like faux, like Junker's corrugated fuselage thing here.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  This is, that's just like the regular Boeing livery now, which is ugly as shit, but I don't really know.

• 1:26:49Justin Roczniak?

  It's supposed to evoke real American manufacturing, like the Bud Company.

• 1:26:56November Kelly?

  Evokes patriotic American Hugo Yunkers.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Say what you want about Bud, but they did not, they didn't build the Horizon railcars.

• 1:27:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's true. That was Pullman Standard. And, um, I should have put that in the goddamn news.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 1:27:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. The, uh, what you call it? Um, yeah, all those, all those Bud cars are still going. Where are the Boeing planes? That's right, in a boneyard.

• 1:27:20November Kelly?

  Maybe, maybe if they did try corrugating them for real.

• 1:27:23Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. You put some stainless steel fluting on the outside of the plane.

• 1:27:27November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29November Kelly?

  This is my, it's, it's a new thing. Make the thing more rigid, but also corrugate it.

• 1:27:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  Uh, so the, they announced this, they like sort of soft launched this in 2013 or so. Um, it doesn't get formally announced until like 2015. It's written on there, September 2015. Um, notably, this is because as far as I can tell, it took them two years to find a company to order them.

• 1:27:54November Kelly?

  Just, just like.

• 1:27:55Justin Roczniak?

  Hey.

• 1:27:57November Kelly?

  Like we gotta, we gotta find some kind of rube willing to buy our stupid aircraft and into the room walks.

• 1:28:05Justin Roczniak?

  Hey guys, what if you wanted an old plane, but it was new?

• 1:28:09November Kelly?

  Hmm. It's like a throwback, except you know, bad.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:28:14November Kelly?

  It's, you pay, you pay, you pay the price of like a fully new aircraft, but for an old design.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  There, there are actually some really funny names in the list of people that ordered this, but it, it's relevant later. So I'm not going to say it now.

• 1:28:27November Kelly?

  Route number one, though. Lufthansa.

• 1:28:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:31Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  The Germans are the first ones. Um, I'm honestly not really sure why, but then again, they still fly the seven, four, seven. And I'm honestly not really sure why. So.

• 1:28:40November Kelly?

  Just pre and post reunification, both Ger- but like both Germany's and the reunified Germany all making really weird aircraft purchasing decisions.

• 1:28:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. They still fly the A three 80 even, which is, I want to, I was going to say very strange for a European airline, but British air, no. British Airways does, but they're not a European airline. So I can say that.

• 1:29:01November Kelly?

  No, yeah, it's because of, because of Brexit.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:05Justin Roczniak?

  Been eliminated from the continent.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  It's true. Wow, sorry. I can't remember. Air France might still fly some more, but I'm not going to make fun of the French right now. That's something for later.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  So they announced the launch order with Lufthansa and they promised that they'll reveal more at the Dubai Airshow. I didn't realize I'd written that down earlier. When I first said that earlier, but.

• 1:29:31Justin Roczniak?

  Hi, it's Justin. So this is a commercial for the podcast that you're already listening to. People are annoyed by these, so let me get to the point. We have this thing called Patreon, right? The deal is you give us two bucks a month and we give you an extra episode once a month. Sometimes it's a little inconsistent, but you know, it's two bucks. You get what you pay for. It also gets you our full back catalog of bonus episodes. So you can learn about exciting topics like guns, pickup trucks, or pickup trucks with guns on them. The money we raise through Patreon goes to making sure that the only ad you hear on this podcast is this one.

• 1:30:14Justin Roczniak?

  Anyway, that's something to consider if you have two bucks to spare each month. Join at patreon.com/typod. Do it if you want, or don't. It's your decision and we respect that. Back to the show.

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  They had introduced the aircraft in 2013, but it did take them like two years to find somebody to buy it to order it.

• 1:30:42Justin Roczniak?

  That's brutal.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Justin Roczniak?

  Please, somebody, anybody. You guys have heard of, you guys haven't heard of this new airline. We're calling it Neo.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  Neoob.

• 1:30:57Speaker 02

  Well, but back, back, back, whenever we first got like anti-monopoly laws before that, Boeing and United Airlines were the same company. You can't do that anymore. You can't do that anymore in this country. And notably, of course, United did not buy this plane.

• 1:31:14Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, that's brutal.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  This was, this was like the 30s. They also had the United Technical Corporation, the one with the weird logo. Anyway.

• 1:31:25Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, good. The UTC.

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  So by 2015, they have something in terms of like a timeline and they have these renderings. All of them are in like this red livery that I've shown you. None of them are actually painted in that for some reason.

• 1:31:41Liam McAnderson?

  I kinda like the red.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's better than the blue that they eventually use, which is like the standard Boeing one, but I don't know. It's weird. They use the red on the seven. I want to say on the seven four seven. I'm not sure, like the seven four seven dash eight. So they they're showing this to airlines. This this form you can see here. I can't. I can't draw around it, but it's from the Paris Air Show that year. They are handing this out to industry dipshits. Anybody who really wanted one.

• 1:32:09Liam McAnderson?

  Please buy our plane.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  So by this point, they're looking. They're looking to introduce this plane in 2020.

• 1:32:18Liam McAnderson?

  Sure.

• 1:32:20November Kelly?

  After a mere seven years.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, we will. We'll come back to that. They.

• 1:32:27Liam McAnderson?

  Hey, I'm Brits calling me. One second.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Now it's just the two of us. Cool. I'll keep going.

• 1:32:34November Kelly?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:32:35Speaker 02

  Sure. They show off. They show this off. The finalized design, they start showing off around two thousand, late 2015, early 2016 ish. It is specifically designed to compete with the A three fifty. It can also be long enough to compete with the seven four seven, which is.

• 1:32:51November Kelly?

  It just comes in any length you want. You want it just like the tail butting right up against the back of the wings. We can do that.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:32:57November Kelly?

  You want it like a mile long. We can do that, too. Aerodynamics. Never heard of them.

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  So it's actually funny because it was kind of it's kind of it was too big of an airplane in its original design. And as a result, it had to have. It was classified with like all of the the seven four seven and the A three eighty in planes that need like extended facilities and hangars.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  They would come up with a novel solution for this, which is on the next slide, so I won't spoil it, especially since I can't switch slides.

• 1:33:25Liam McAnderson?

  I'm back. It was about golf.

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 1:33:28Liam McAnderson?

  I was being called about fucking golf.

• 1:33:31Speaker 02

  Phenomenal.

• 1:33:32Liam McAnderson?

  And it truly insane. What did I miss when I was out for those 30 seconds?

• 1:33:35November Kelly?

  The the the triple seven X is a variable length from three feet long to infinity.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:33:42Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, OK. Yeah. All right. That fucks. All right. I like it. Yeah. OK.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46November Kelly?

  Big accordion plane. It just like extends out like the bellows on an old camera.

• 1:33:54November Kelly?

  Yeah, and it makes that noise, too.

• 1:33:55Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, that's crazy how it does that.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  I gotta get one of them cameras that does the

• 1:34:01November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:04Speaker 02

  I I

• 1:34:05Liam McAnderson?

  I'm stuck like this now.

• 1:34:08Speaker 02

  I only shoot the cheapest film cameras you can imagine. So that would be an interesting departure from form. Uh, so anyways, this is, this is, as far as Boeing is concerned, this is, uh, triple seven X, the everything plane.

• 1:34:20November Kelly?

  Oh, God.

• 1:34:21Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  We, we were really leading up to that one.

• 1:34:25November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:34:28Speaker 02

  Um, so anyways, it's designed to compete with the A three fifty, which is obviously never going to do because the A three fifty has about a decade head start. And also the seven, the, the time to replace the seven four sevens, which it's also never going to do because that's stupid.

• 1:34:45Speaker 02

  Like you, it's, it's a one story aircraft, but it's really long. It's not super great in terms of like maintenance and things because you had to build it with the wings and you had to build it off the ground.

• 1:34:56November Kelly?

  It looks like it's having a tail strike in the image that they're using.

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  This also is not the longest one. This is the triple seven nine.

• 1:35:05November Kelly?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:35:06Justin Roczniak?

  You know, they should, clearly what they should do is start segmented into like flexible, you know, different airplanes and just chain them all to get. Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. Like a bendy plane. Yeah, or just like a train in the sky.

• 1:35:20Liam McAnderson?

  What is it?

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  The plane, but it, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Sky train. That's, uh, that's what the C forty seven. Uh, anyway.

• 1:35:26November Kelly?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  They, um, so they, the, the really long one, the triple seven ten, uh, X ten, ten X. Jesus fuck. Um.

• 1:35:36November Kelly?

  Listen, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm losing the ability to count at this point. So don't worry about it.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  I need, I really need them to do a new plane. Um, they're, they're, they're not going to build that unless any, unless there's interest in it. Uh, zero orders have been placed for it so far.

• 1:35:52November Kelly?

  Doing, doing it as like a crowdfunded, like a kickstarting my Boeing.

• 1:35:58Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, that'll be the, uh, that'll, when we get really big and we can afford a, uh, you know, a big jet like fucking Iron Maiden, we'll get a, a triple seven ten.

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  Uh, one airline like in the future, uh, Singapore tells them that they might be interested, but I think Boeing tells them that they're not just gonna build it for the one airline. So they they just kind of don't order it. Um, I also don't really know why Singapore Airlines would want them.

• 1:36:25November Kelly?

  It's kind of a petty order.

• 1:36:27Justin Roczniak?

  Well, maybe they have height restrictions at the airport.

• 1:36:32Speaker 02

  No, because they fly Singapore has the A three eighty still. I think I might be wrong about that. They hate them if they still have them, but they might. Yeah, they do.

• 1:36:42Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:36:43November Kelly?

  Maybe it makes sense.

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, when the Dubai airshow comes around, which is November two thousand fifteen, Boeing announces orders from Emirates, who orders one hundred and fifty, um, Qatar Airways, who orders fifty and Ethiopian, Ethiopian, I've never really been sure how to pronounce that. They ordered twenty five and several other airlines ordered smaller ones. Um, you'll notice that all of those are like Middle Eastern Gulf Coast operators.

• 1:37:10November Kelly?

  Hmm. Famously very responsible with their money.

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  This will become, this will continue to be important.

• 1:37:16Justin Roczniak?

  Tight, tight budgets. You gotta recycle the petra dollar somehow.

• 1:37:22November Kelly?

  This is a plain equivalent of a Gucci belt.

• 1:37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, that's where I'm eventually going with this. So, uh,

• 1:37:31Speaker 02

  we'll, we'll, we'll get there, but, um, they only ordered, there was a total of two hundred and fifty nine plane orders, which are from every airline, which is almost like a normal amount for an airliner being launched. Um, but somehow because of how expensive they were, this was the most expensive deal for an air for airliner orders in history. Totalling, well, yeah, ninety five billion dollars at retail price, and it seemed like Boeing wasn't really cutting them any, wasn't cutting any deals for buying more than a few of them, which is not a good way to do business in this industry because like, you know, Airbus got their foothold in the U. S. By offering deals to American car carriers and suddenly shit, now everybody flies the funny Airbus planes everywhere.

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  Being a rigid manufacturer who builds your planes to the spec that nobody wants and refuses to compromise on the price of them is not a great position to be in.

• 1:38:27Liam McAnderson?

  Well, never surrender. So the woke Airbus mob.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  Um, one of the-

• 1:38:34November Kelly?

  Every time you say this, I add another pronoun to the plan.

• 1:38:40Speaker 02

  That's what the, instead of, instead of the-

• 1:38:42November Kelly?

  You have to do a land acknowledgement to light up the engines now.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Instead of calling, instead of calling you the arslar, the cockpit calls you a, some sort of pronoun, esoteric pronoun.

• 1:38:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. It calls you sis.

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  Uh, one of the not launch customers, but early customers was, uh, the official airline of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Because it was 2015 and you could, they, they could do that.

• 1:39:16November Kelly?

  Ah, little bit of a thaw, you know, this, uh-

• 1:39:18Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:19November Kelly?

  The juicy P O A was kicking off.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  This was, this was the Obama era. Things were, uh, that was cool. They were, and somebody just somewhere decided that Iran could buy planes again. And then they couldn't. Um, this order-

• 1:39:32November Kelly?

  Just, just the, the entire history of US Iran relations since the revolution is just a, a series of rug pulls on each side.

• 1:39:41Liam McAnderson?

  No, you hang up.

• 1:39:44November Kelly?

  Just like, oh, no, you don't.

• 1:39:46Liam McAnderson?

  Nope. Fuck you, buddy.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  Uh, I couldn't remember how many Iran air bought because, but it was very funny. I tried to include a picture of one of them in the Iran air livery in the slide, but I, they, nobody ever seemed to have actually mocked that up, which is a shame. Uh, they ordered, they ordered 15 of them, which is a lot considering how expensive they were.

• 1:40:06Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, I, I feel like Iran air is not necessarily in a great financial-

• 1:40:11Liam McAnderson?

  Worth with cash, yeah.

• 1:40:12Justin Roczniak?

  Situation, yeah.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  Uh, they, okay, that year they ordered 5737 Maxes, 15 regular triple sevens and 15 of these guys.

• 1:40:21November Kelly?

  Wow.

• 1:40:21Liam McAnderson?

  Jesus.

• 1:40:22Speaker 02

  Uh, obviously none of those were ever delivered.

• 1:40:24November Kelly?

  Oh, of course.

• 1:40:25Liam McAnderson?

  Wow.

• 1:40:26November Kelly?

  A typical American reliability.

• 1:40:29Speaker 02

  Uh, they never formally canceled that order, but I don't think it's on the books anymore. As funny as it would be to be including that in the order number.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  So next slide.

• 1:40:38Justin Roczniak?

  We're gonna fix relations with Iran before they finish developing the aircraft.

• 1:40:43Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. It'll be the, yeah, the, the, it'll be like the friendship bridge. It'll just be the friendship seven, uh, triple seven.

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:40:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  So they, sometime in 2016, they changed the design to include, uh, this, the folding wingtip. You can see here, this pointy thing. I've read a fair amount about this aircraft and I'm not super certain what the aerodynamic purpose is.

• 1:41:09Justin Roczniak?

  I thought it was so they could fit it in existing gates.

• 1:41:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, this, okay, I, I did say this a minute ago. Yes, the triple seven X was too big that it was, had to be like seven, four, seven and eight, three, eighty gates.

• 1:41:21Justin Roczniak?

  Ooh, she thick.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  But if they did, but yes, if they did this, it didn't, they could fold the wingtips up and wingtips up and it would actually fit at a gate or a hangar and things. Which seems like a bit of a cheat. Feel like we shouldn't be able to do that with an aircraft. I don't know.

• 1:41:36Justin Roczniak?

  Well, listen, it, what, it's what they say in NASCAR. You ain't cheating. You ain't trying.

• 1:41:41Liam McAnderson?

  Right. Yeah, of course. Obviously.

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  So, yeah, the, the, the A three fifty has the regular, like, folded wingtip types, the, the nice ones that, like, sort of generally lift up. It's the principles of aerodynamics and so forth.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  I, I'm not really, the mindset that went into this is baffling to me because it means that it is another part that will be very expensive to maintain because it is a mechanically operated bit of the plane.

• 1:42:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  I don't know. I genuinely cannot get my head around this, but like.

• 1:42:16Liam McAnderson?

  Bendy wing, bendy wing. Who says no to a bendy wing?

• 1:42:19Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:42:20November Kelly?

  Just an entire company with ADHD. Just like, when I, when I gotta put a bendy wing on the plane because I'm bored.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:42:27Justin Roczniak?

  And I want a Benny wing and I want it to be two stories and I want to be purple and I want it to be.

• 1:42:36Justin Roczniak?

  They should have cookies when you take off.

• 1:42:41Speaker 02

  It's an airline that used to do that in the US, but they don't anymore, presumably because of woke or something.

• 1:42:45Justin Roczniak?

  That's terrible.

• 1:42:47Liam McAnderson?

  Nazis.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  But by this point in time, what Boeing was sort of trying to introduce the most technologically advanced long haul airplane. And they're also doing literally everything in their power to cut the production costs of it.

• 1:43:01Liam McAnderson?

  How's this go for them?

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  We'll get there.

• 1:43:05Liam McAnderson?

  Okay.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  They're also include that. Where they also build a system to automate the insertion of rivets into the fuselage or fuselages. This is mainly to circumvent union labor, but it's entirely to circumvent.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:43:23Justin Roczniak?

  Also, that sounds like something that's damn near impossible to do.

• 1:43:26Speaker 02

  I have good news for you because they they shut it down in like 2019.

• 1:43:30Justin Roczniak?

  Turned out it was impossible to do.

• 1:43:35Speaker 02

  Boeing is like one of the one of the great anti-union warriors of this country in terms of stuff that we do for industry. That's why they built Boeing, South Carolina, which cannot build planes to save its life.

• 1:43:47Liam McAnderson?

  Good. Fuck you.

• 1:43:48Speaker 02

  No, I that's the problem with the seven eight seven. They built them all in South Carolina now, and the quality assurance is so bad that Boeing actually cannot self-certify that they're airworthy. The FAA has to do it for them.

• 1:44:01Justin Roczniak?

  It didn't that is that plant still non-union?

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:44:06Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  As far as I'm aware.

• 1:44:08Justin Roczniak?

  I would have figured they would have managed to unionize it by now.

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  South Carolina, I mean, they picked South Carolina because it's the what the least United States in the Union.

• 1:44:16Justin Roczniak?

  I guess that makes sense.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  They have been very aggressive in targeting union organizers in in this plant. Like they they've been I they I am is taking them in front of the NLRB like a couple of times about it. And like Boeing has made them withdraw complaints in order to ratify a new contract. It's it's all fucked in every sense.

• 1:44:41Liam McAnderson?

  Jesus.

• 1:44:42Justin Roczniak?

  Right.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  So, yeah, that we don't build seven eight sevens anymore because we wanted to use non-union labor. And it turns out they're not very good at it. Yes. Yeah.

• 1:44:54Speaker 02

  So, yeah, this is this is this is the results.

• 1:44:56Justin Roczniak?

  Is the foundation of American society.

• 1:45:03November Kelly?

  Keeps the wings attached to the plane.

• 1:45:06Speaker 02

  Uh, the 737 Maxes were union built, so it's not, we don't want to get too aggressive.

• 1:45:12November Kelly?

  Insufficiently woke Unions.

• 1:45:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I was about to say.

• 1:45:16Liam McAnderson?

  We gotta rebuild the IWW.

• 1:45:18Justin Roczniak?

  Well, do we know?

• 1:45:19Liam McAnderson?

  We need to arm everyone in there, what?

• 1:45:22Justin Roczniak?

  How woke was the guy who designed the MCAS system? That's the real question.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  Well, that was outsourced, so actually probably non-union.

• 1:45:30Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. Well, here's your problem.

• 1:45:33Liam McAnderson?

  Hey, that's the name of the show.

• 1:45:34November Kelly?

  The show that we do?

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Good work, everybody.

• 1:45:37November Kelly?

  I can finally wrap it up until I'm leading up to this.

• 1:45:42Justin Roczniak?

  Chuff the shark.

• 1:45:43Speaker 02

  Glad to be here for the last episode of Well, There's Your Problem.

• 1:45:45Liam McAnderson?

  Just kidding, we have to make red dickheads.

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  So they, they start production, um, sort of somewhere around like 2017, 18 ish, uh, just in sort of like assembling the first prototypes.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  This goes up until about 2019. They build the, they roll out the first aircraft in March.

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  They were still telling Lufthansa that they would get it by the summer of 2020.

• 1:46:13Liam McAnderson?

  Uh huh.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  Now, there's the obvious thing here, but also I want to maintain that the 787 was rolled out in June of 2007, and the first airline got theirs in 2011.

• 1:46:25Liam McAnderson?

  Okay.

• 1:46:26Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:46:27November Kelly?

  Spend a minute.

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:28November Kelly?

  I forgot that you ordered those.

• 1:46:30Justin Roczniak?

  Kinda, kinda do it in a third of the time. It's gonna be fine.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:33Justin Roczniak?

  You know why? There's no Unions in the way.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  Well, they were building this in Everett, which is still Union, but, um.

• 1:46:40Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  But, but with, with the automated non-union rivet inserters, so.

• 1:46:45Justin Roczniak?

  I need a Union rivet inserter.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  We, uh, we have those. They're called machinists. Yeah.

• 1:46:50Liam McAnderson?

  That's what they call me. I'll show you my rivet insertion.

• 1:46:54Justin Roczniak?

  Oh my.

• 1:46:55Liam McAnderson?

  Don't sigh at that. That was good.

• 1:47:01Speaker 02

  So anyways, they rolled this plane out. It is three days after the second 737 MAX crash.

• 1:47:06Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, you're kidding? Sucks.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  Not, they did it with not the greatest amount of fanfare in the world, which is fair. I think that's called tact. I'm not really sure.

• 1:47:17Liam McAnderson?

  No one noticed this.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:47:21Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, wasn't me.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  I mean, that was, I mean, that was the defense Boeing had at the time, but like.

• 1:47:27Justin Roczniak?

  He is a shaggy defense.

• 1:47:28Liam McAnderson?

  What was it? Just we outsourced this? Sorry?

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  No, it was about, it was the pilot error was initially what they blamed.

• 1:47:34Justin Roczniak?

  It was the shaggy defense.

• 1:47:35Liam McAnderson?

  Shaggy defense. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  For both of them, the Ethiopian and the Lion Air one. But yeah, that was, man, that was a fucked up time, but.

• 1:47:44Liam McAnderson?

  That's brutal.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  July of 2019 rolls around and Boeing tells folks that the first flight isn't going to happen until 2020. They blame the engine manufacturers, which is GE, General Electric for this.

• 1:47:57Justin Roczniak?

  Wasn't me.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  They, they tell airlines that they're still going to get their planes by the end of 2020? No.

• 1:48:04Justin Roczniak?

  Unlikely.

• 1:48:06November Kelly?

  Yeah. I mean, everybody in 2020 had a lot of stuff going on that kind of distracted them, you know, especially airlines.

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  Uh, so.

• 1:48:14Justin Roczniak?

  Well, they didn't know that was going to happen yet.

• 1:48:17Speaker 02

  That's, that's, that is, yeah.

• 1:48:21Justin Roczniak?

  Or did they?

• 1:48:25November Kelly?

  My God, it was airlines all along.

• 1:48:28Justin Roczniak?

  Engineering a global pandemic to distract from your shitty airplane.

• 1:48:32Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:48:33Liam McAnderson?

  Genius.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  So September 2019 rolls around and on September 5th of that year, September 5th, 2019, Boeing and the FAA were working together and conducting the, one of the standard tests that they need for certification called the ultimate load test. It's just ensuring that the airframe can actually handle what it has been engineered to handle the absolute maximum load pressure.

• 1:49:00November Kelly?

  Yeah, I imagine the way that this works is you get a bunch of test pilots in there throwing like heavy boxes and free weights and stuff around. Trying to open the doors.

• 1:49:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, a bunch of, um, um, what else?

• 1:49:16November Kelly?

  You do like a Western saloon brawl in the back?

• 1:49:20Justin Roczniak?

  We're gonna, yeah, exactly.

• 1:49:21Liam McAnderson?

  Zero gravity test plane tail.

• 1:49:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. You're gonna have some like comical spherical bombs go off in there. You're gonna have some, I don't know. Yeah, the saloon brawl actually I think should be a test.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  It's true. It's good to know because then you can test what bullet holes do to the fuselage when it's under pressure.

• 1:49:42Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good point, yeah.

• 1:49:45Justin Roczniak?

  Overturning the bar, shoving the catering cart into someone's face, you know.

• 1:49:52Justin Roczniak?

  Rolling it down the aisle.

• 1:49:55Speaker 02

  So on the topic of what the aircraft does when it's under pressure. In, so in the middle of this test, if you go to the next slide, please.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  This is, yes.

• 1:50:09Justin Roczniak?

  Looks good.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  Well, okay. At 99% of the ultimate load, it did this, which is just short of what they would have needed to pass the test.

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  Not supposed to look like that, obviously.

• 1:50:26November Kelly?

  Because what it is, is a guy got like punched through the plate glass window of the plane.

• 1:50:33Justin Roczniak?

  After the, after the bar top got knocked over, spilling all the drinks.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  So for reference.

• 1:50:41Justin Roczniak?

  How did Mongo do this?

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  For reference, the original 777 went up to 105%. The 787 had gone up to about 101% and then they released the pressure because they didn't want the airframe to crack because it's made of composites and therefore tends to release dusts that you don't really want whenever it does that.

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  Notably, the 777X is also made of composites, so something to consider.

• 1:51:09November Kelly?

  Everybody in, everybody in there besides a bunch of kind of like Tennessee whiskey also got lungs full of asbestos.

• 1:51:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51:17Justin Roczniak?

  Just like the Bud Company where, you know, every railroad car gave a shot welder an exotic cancer. That's why they lasted so long. They absorbed the souls of the men who worked on them.

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  So the, yeah, when they get to 99%, which to be clear is not the percentage that they needed to be, that was 100.

• 1:51:38Justin Roczniak?

  That's one lower.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51:40Justin Roczniak?

  One lower.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  It, it, um, a crack develops a lot of pretty somewhere around the center line of the underside of the fuselage where the wings intersected, which causes the fuselage to rapidly rupture. Crack travels upwards to a passenger door and blows it out entirely in sort of an explosive decompression scenario, except they're on the ground, but it was pressurized. So it was an explosive decompression scenario. Uh, the, as far as.

• 1:52:07November Kelly?

  Getting Bifid dolphin at zero feet altitude.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. As far as we're aware, the door did fly out violently in the test hangar. I, I don't know. I, I don't, I don't, I don't think it would have caused any damage because, okay, to anything other than the airframe, but, um.

• 1:52:26Justin Roczniak?

  I would assume the test stand is situated in such a way that no one's going to get murdered if the plane fails.

• 1:52:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:52:36November Kelly?

  Catastrophically.

• 1:52:37Liam McAnderson?

  So.

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Uh, the Seattle Times doesn't, does not actually report this for a couple of weeks afterwards, and they get this picture, uh, which is the best quality I could find of it. Not sure why it's so low resolution.

• 1:52:49November Kelly?

  To look like that.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:52:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:52:52Justin Roczniak?

  Again, you, you should at least get to 100% ultimate load before this happens.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  99% is pretty close.

• 1:53:00Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:01Speaker 02

  Well, this is a.

• 1:53:02Liam McAnderson?

  A for effort.

• 1:53:03Speaker 02

  Well, I, actually the Seattle Times theorized that this, that the FAA was going to take the same approach and pass them for it anyway.

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  Uh, as long, as long as Boeing could show that they had fixed the problem on paper, which of course on paper it said it could withstand that this much to begin with. So I'm not.

• 1:53:21Justin Roczniak?

  Wow. On paper, the same thing the plane was apparently made of.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  Same as well.

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  By the end of October, various setbacks, mainly this one, but like a lot of other production problems meant that the prospects for getting the aircraft like flight certified were pretty grim. The their projected delivery date at this point was 2022, which is a little more realistic than 2020. It's just also wildly unrealistic because again, five year gap from the first flight to the delivery of the 787, which was a much smoother process.

• 1:53:57Justin Roczniak?

  Now, ultimate load here, I would assume is the normal load that would be expected on the aircraft, plus quite a robust factor of safety.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. 50%.

• 1:54:10Justin Roczniak?

  50%.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:54:12Justin Roczniak?

  That's.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  100.

• 1:54:13Justin Roczniak?

  100. That's, I'm a civil engineer. I'm used to like two or three.

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  150% of regular maximum load. Yes. Sorry. I forgot this was an engineering podcast and didn't write that number down. Also, by the end of 2019, I did write this down here. Also, at the end of 2019, they shut down the automated rivet insertion scab system, which is, which was like two years old at this point, not even.

• 1:54:40Liam McAnderson?

  Well done assholes.

• 1:54:42Speaker 02

  They sort of quickly discovered that it didn't actually put the rivets in good. Took two years for that? Not really certain.

• 1:54:48Justin Roczniak?

  Some kind of Boeing John Henry, trying to outdo the automated rivet machine.

• 1:54:54Liam McAnderson?

  Going to town on the rivets.

• 1:54:58Justin Roczniak?

  Passing out and dying. And say, wow, actually, we can only use the planes he made. Because the rivet machine doesn't work.

• 1:55:06Liam McAnderson?

  These are shaking apart. Yeah.

• 1:55:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:07Liam McAnderson?

  Bad for you.

• 1:55:09Speaker 02

  So, yeah, so this wasn't great. This was a big production setback and a big PR setback because of course, you know, there's some nuances there as to ultimate load versus practice versus what would actually be practically what an aircraft's practical load would be. But like, you have a picture of the plane having basically exploded. That's not really good press for anybody.

• 1:55:29Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:55:30Speaker 02

  So this wasn't great, but next slide. 2020 rolls around and they're looking for a new Boeing is looking for a clean slate. They're looking to move on from the 737 MAX failures because they were fixing it. And also to be prepared for a busy summer 2020 travel season.

• 1:55:48Justin Roczniak?

  I was, I was feeling great in like, you know, when 2020 rolled around, I was like, this is going to be my year. I'm going to do great. This is going to be fantastic. No.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  Actually, yeah, yeah. Oh, the halcyon days of early 2020.

• 1:56:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, like up until like, you know, the, the middle of January.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  It's like thinking about the halcyon days of 2016. Unfortunately, this was pretty short-lived because January 18th, the Senate Committee that is investigating the 737 MAX issues releases a set of emails from Boeing employees. In one of them, they complained that the company is using the same parts distributor and software development team that was doing stuff for the MAX program and on an even tighter production schedule. Now, this was mostly in this case of the 737, this was mostly for flight simulators. It's not really clear what they were doing for the 777, but like

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  the outsour- the contractor that made 737 MAX parts, not a great company to be.

• 1:56:52Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, no.

• 1:56:53Speaker 02

  Especially in 2020.

• 1:56:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  Boeing comes out very quickly and says that there's nothing to worry about because the 777X doesn't-

• 1:57:01Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you love that response.

• 1:57:03Speaker 02

  777X does not have the MCAS system.

• 1:57:08November Kelly?

  It's, it's fine. Don't worry about it.

• 1:57:10Justin Roczniak?

  Shut up.

• 1:57:10November Kelly?

  Has always been like this.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  Nobody had, nobody had said anything about the MCAS system specifically.

• 1:57:16Justin Roczniak?

  The plane's fine. Don't worry about it. It doesn't have MCAS.

• 1:57:19Liam McAnderson?

  Shut up. You shut up. You shut up.

• 1:57:21Justin Roczniak?

  Why are you worrying? Stop worrying. The plane's going to be fine.

• 1:57:25November Kelly?

  Says that on the outside instead of the thing that it should say.

• 1:57:28Justin Roczniak?

  Plane? The plane is fine. We haven't crashed any of them yet.

• 1:57:32Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we've never left one up there.

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  That's true. They have not, they have not crashed any of the 777X's yet.

• 1:57:39Justin Roczniak?

  It's fine. Don't worry.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  Uh, January 25th comes around and at 10:09 Pacific daylight time. In a rare instance of that not being a bad harbinger on this podcast, uh, the plane actually takes off for the first time. That's what, that's what this picture is. From, I want to say the airport, Boeing's airport and manufacturing facility in Everett specifically. I have been there. It's, it's an, it's an interesting place. It is where you will see all of these aircraft lined up, ready to never go into service.

• 1:58:12Speaker 02

  This is, uh, they build a second plane which flies on April 30th. Uh, they build a third one which flies on August 3rd. This is the most productive that the airplane has been to date. And since then, um, not really any major setbacks for the triple seven X program that year, which is admittedly kind of a reprieve considering between the seven, three, seven max and COVID, they had lost 11.9 billion dollars that year.

• 1:58:35Liam McAnderson?

  Oh.

• 1:58:37Speaker 02

  And of course, uh, a lot of corporate analysts, uh, will say that the seven, three, seven max was probably the most expensive corporate blunder in history because it probably indirect and indirect costs probably cost them somewhere north of 60 billion dollars.

• 1:58:52Liam McAnderson?

  That's crazy.

• 1:58:53Justin Roczniak?

  Oh my God.

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  Uh, I think that was, I think I read the, I think that was a business insider article. It was not a great time to be Boeing. It's still not a great time to be Boeing.

• 1:59:03November Kelly?

  Boeing to go bankrupt.

• 1:59:05Justin Roczniak?

  But yeah, you cannot do, you're Boeing to lose subscriber.

• 1:59:11Speaker 02

  Now, uh, Boeing would lose 11.9 billion dollars this year, which would have, which is of course a very ridiculous amount of money exacerbated by the seven, three, seven max and the triple seven X. Uh, so of course they're obviously never going to do it again. Except in 2024, when they lost 11.8 billion.

• 1:59:26Liam McAnderson?

  Oh my God. We could run it better than they're doing. Put us on the Boeing board. You are Boeing to hostile takeover.

• 1:59:35Justin Roczniak?

  I could probably build an airplane.

• 1:59:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:37Justin Roczniak?

  How hard can it be?

• 1:59:38Liam McAnderson?

  How hard can it be? You are a legendary gray. Shut up.

• 1:59:41Speaker 02

  Now granted, a lot of that last year was probably because of the extended work stoppage, but like there was an easy solution for that. It was ratified better contract.

• 1:59:49Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Turns out, well, it's weird that, you know, they've done all this cost cutting in order to create an aircraft, which is much more expensive.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  Oh yeah.

• 1:59:59Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. Actually.

• 2:00:01Justin Roczniak?

  It's, it's, uh, you know, so sometimes you get what you pay for.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  They have cost cuts to build a more expensive airplane while still losing billions of dollars every year. And that I, I think that's genuinely something, a level of incompetence to aspire to in the corporate world.

• 2:00:21November Kelly?

  That's efficient allocation of resources.

• 2:00:24Justin Roczniak?

  I, when I was in college, I took a class on value engineering.

• 2:00:29November Kelly?

  Oh, no.

• 2:00:29Justin Roczniak?

  And in fact, they gave me a certificate afterwards. And all I could think through the whole class was, ah gee, this is gonna cost a lot of money a long time from now.

• 2:00:47Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:00:47Justin Roczniak?

  You know, it's like, oh, God, I don't, I don't want to make this decision.

• 2:00:52November Kelly?

  I want to spend more money. I like spending money.

• 2:00:55Justin Roczniak?

  Let me spend the money now, so I don't have to spend it later.

• 2:00:57November Kelly?

  So I'm not being sued into oblivion, right? 30 years from now. Right, right, right, right.

• 2:01:04Speaker 02

  In 2021, somewhere in January and whatever the quarterly earnings call, Boeing tells investors that it won't be ready until late 2023. They blame, they blame this on the pandemic, which, you know, whatever. I don't care if it's valid or not. It's just kind of a rotating excuse wheel. It's quite funny to look at.

• 2:01:26November Kelly?

  It's just like, roll a D20 to generate excuse.

• 2:01:31Liam McAnderson?

  Does this a serious uncommanded pitch event?

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  That's the dexter point. Yes.

• 2:01:35November Kelly?

  I mean, listen, that could mean.

• 2:01:37Justin Roczniak?

  Don't worry, it wasn't MCAS.

• 2:01:42Speaker 02

  On, on June 27th, 2021, the Seattle Times reports on a letter that was written to Boeing by the Federal Aviation Administration on May 13th and had been subsequently leaked to them. Sometime in late December 2020, on a test flight, aircraft experienced a quote, "serious, uncontrolled, fuck, serious, uncommanded pitch event," close quote, which means either the plane went up or down without anybody telling it to do that. They, they said that they complained about that. They complained about a few other issues that they didn't give enough detail, but we don't know anything about them as the public, which is nice to think about. They also, they talk about a general, quote, "lack of design maturity."

• 2:02:29Justin Roczniak?

  Listen, the airplane at this point, the airframe is only about 30 years old. And I'm about the same age. And yeah, sometimes I feel like, you know, maybe I'm not all there. So, you know.

• 2:02:45Speaker 02

  Um, the FAA basically tells them that they're not going to certify that there's no way they're going to certify that aircraft until mid to late 2023. They won't even let FAA officials on test flights until Boeing has done something to fix it. I don't think it was specific as to what it was.

• 2:03:02Speaker 02

  This basically means that by the Boeing timeline, the first delivery would be in 2024. I can't find anywhere that Boeing ever said anything about this letter being publicly released.

• 2:03:12Justin Roczniak?

  Incredible. Didn't happen, not real. That was photoshopped.

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I, yeah, no, I don't, I don't even know what to think about that. Um, you know, they're, they're just kind of building a plane for themselves at this point, uh, on their own timeline.

• 2:03:26Justin Roczniak?

  Hey, anyone want to buy my plane?

• 2:03:27November Kelly?

  It's cold self-care.

• 2:03:30Justin Roczniak?

  My brand new 30-year-old plane?

• 2:03:35Speaker 02

  So now that we're in 2021, uh, next slide, I actually want to take a little bit of a step back and talk about Boeing commercial airplanes as an ongoing concern. In 2000, they made how the many different types of plane, the two McDonnell Douglas aircraft, 73, 74, 75, 76, and 77. Before 2011, they stopped making the MD 11, 717, 757, and the 747 400.

• 2:04:02Speaker 02

  In 2011, they were making the two kinds of 737, the new 747 model, uh, the 76, 77, and 78.

• 2:04:12Speaker 02

  Uh, so after this, the last passenger, last passenger 767, visible at top right there, uh, was delivered.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  So they stopped making those in 2014, leaving just the Friters and the military versions. The last passenger seven four seven was delivered to Korean air in 2017 and their livery that still looks great. Then they actually killed it in the time that between me writing these slides and today, they made it bad.

• 2:04:38Justin Roczniak?

  They just changed it? Holy shit.

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, they both they've done a whole new brand. It's ugly.

• 2:04:43Justin Roczniak?

  That's awful.

• 2:04:44Speaker 02

  They made it minimal with lines as opposed to colors. It's still blue, so they get that, but it's bad. And then they even discontinued the Friday versions, the seven four seven in 2023. So they don't make that plane anymore. They're going to build the they're going to build the new Air Force ones out of the used ones, but that's going to be it for the seven four seven.

• 2:05:05Justin Roczniak?

  That makes sense to me. Yeah.

• 2:05:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they've this this was a they've it's a headline a few months ago that they were going to work with Elon to speed up the timeline on that.

• 2:05:14Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:15November Kelly?

  Incredible. Yeah.

• 2:05:16Justin Roczniak?

  We're gonna use one of the starships and then, you know, just explode.

• 2:05:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, probably the whole thing goes up like the Fuhrer bunker.

• 2:05:26Speaker 02

  I mean, I could not think of a greater sort of iconographic end to the to the to the century of American prosperity than the American made aircraft blowing up with Donald Trump in it. That would be.

• 2:05:41November Kelly?

  Just just a kind of like.

• 2:05:43Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, and Elon and JD Vance.

• 2:05:44November Kelly?

  Air Force One moment, but for America.

• 2:05:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:05:51November Kelly?

  That was a woke birch tree.

• 2:05:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, not you. You know, it depends on who gets left behind that day. And suddenly we have Sean Duffy, President of the United States.

• 2:06:02November Kelly?

  I saw designated survivor.

• 2:06:04Speaker 02

  Well, to be fair, that will probably be the third Trump term. So there'll be a new cabinet by that point.

• 2:06:09Liam McAnderson?

  Stop it, Maya.

• 2:06:12Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 2:06:15Speaker 02

  The last passenger seven thirty seven next generation was delivered in two thousand nineteen. The last passenger seven triple seven, the original one was built and delivered the Aeroflot in two thousand twenty one. Pictured here in a livery that's also quite ugly.

• 2:06:31Speaker 02

  So Boeing builds Boeing essentially builds two passenger aircraft now. They built the seven three seven max and the seven eight seven. And like I said, they can't build the seven eight seven anymore because they keep building them wrong.

• 2:06:46Justin Roczniak?

  So I love American manufacturing.

• 2:06:49November Kelly?

  It's coming back, I hear.

• 2:06:51Justin Roczniak?

  I I think the terrorists might help.

• 2:06:57November Kelly?

  Tariff Santa is gonna fix it.

• 2:06:59Speaker 02

  It's it's also notable that the the tariff thing only sort of affects Airbus because they build A three twenties in Alabama now. So the decade of the the new century of American manufacturing does also apply to Airbus, who was a proud American company. It was also anti-union annoyingly.

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  Which is why they're in Alabama of all places.

• 2:07:23Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, didn't there been a couple instances of like folks trying to build plants in the in the deep south and like just being astonished that like, oh, no one can read here. Shit.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, that Boeing, South Carolina and Airbus Mobile.

• 2:07:42Justin Roczniak?

  Boat Mobile is outpost of civilization in Alabama. I will say that.

• 2:07:50Speaker 02

  Notably, of course, Airbus Mobile is on track to build more planes this year than Boeing has built non seven three sevens the past two years.

• 2:07:59Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, God.

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  That's obviously a rosy estimate of theirs, but still, though, that's a, you know, great American manufacturing company, Airbus. So basically, the. By the time 2021 rolls around, they build two commercial airliners and a couple more freighters and a shit ton of military derivatives thereof. And they also stopped making several more of those since then. Anyways, 2021, you are Boeing commercial airplanes. Your parent company has lost.

• 2:08:30Speaker 02

  Your parent company has lost $12 billion last year. All of your development money is in on the 777X.

• 2:08:37Liam McAnderson?

  And they just can't get this thing to, they just can't fix this thing.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  You would hope that airlines would be absolutely champing at the bit to purchase them. Next slide.

• 2:08:45Justin Roczniak?

  Sounds like a great plane. I let me take 400, yeah.

• 2:08:50Speaker 02

  On the left, you will see orders and deliveries of the Airbus A350, totally 1,363. On the right, you'll see the 777 totaling 515.

• 2:09:02Speaker 02

  Not great.

• 2:09:03Justin Roczniak?

  Not terrible.

• 2:09:04November Kelly?

  Not great.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Not terrible, but not great.

• 2:09:06Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  I'd like to get in, I would actually like to get in on these orders a little bit more in detail. But I would also like to point out that 515 orders was where the A350 was at in 2010. And that plane launched in 2007. That was three years. It has taken them 12 years to scrape together 515 777X orders. Of those 515, 205 are for Emirates, 94 are for Qatar, 25 are for Etihad, 324 are for airlines either in Dubai or Qatar. Qatar, never figured out the pronunciation.

• 2:09:39November Kelly?

  Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you to Rube Airlines.

• 2:09:42Liam McAnderson?

  Yes.

• 2:09:43November Kelly?

  Please, just guy, guy, just waving hand, just buy me some planes.

• 2:09:48Justin Roczniak?

  Just keep recycling the petrol dollars, come on.

• 2:09:54November Kelly?

  It's also, it's also bribe, right? Like you're not buying these because you really care that much about your airline business. You'll find somewhere for them and like, hopefully they don't nosedive and kill a bunch of people. But like mostly it's like, you know, it's a backhander to American, to American manufacturing. Yeah.

• 2:10:13Speaker 02

  Two orders are for Silkway West Airline, which is an airline in Azerbaijan that is mostly known for illegally transporting munitions to do genocide. So that's an interesting one to keep in mind.

• 2:10:24November Kelly?

  Just the cargo hold being gently kissed by crates and crates of Kalashnikov.

• 2:10:31Speaker 02

  Basically, at this point, they have built a ridiculous air, the ridiculously expensive airline. It is, as far as I can tell, the most serious airliner ever produced, and I use the word serious to exclude the A380, which was kind of always a shitpost that they also sold a bunch of to Middle Eastern airlines. The A350 does the things that the airlines actually want, and it's quite a bit cheaper. I don't know the per unit cost. I would not be surprised if it was close to two thirds.

• 2:10:59Justin Roczniak?

  Well, I thought it was 60% cheaper to build. That's what the executive said. It was gonna be 60% cheaper.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  And why would they lie? Indeed.

• 2:11:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I thought that's what the executive said to do.

• 2:11:13Speaker 02

  Well, to be fair, 60, 60% cheaper to build, excuse me, doesn't necessarily mean the unit price is gonna be lower. They could just be aiming for really high profit margins on this thing.

• 2:11:22Justin Roczniak?

  That's true. That's true. What if it, yeah, they actually build these for like $40 each?

• 2:11:27Speaker 02

  If they sell one, they are out of the money problems. That's all they need to do. They need to sell one plane and build one plane successfully. Boeing can't really stop losing money at this point. And we're, you know, we're still a couple of years ago at this point. So that's, that's great. I will say that these order numbers are for the current year, but I actually don't think there's been any 777X orders in the past year. So, so that might not actually be particularly relevant. It is also notable that zero airlines in the United States have bought them.

• 2:12:10Justin Roczniak?

  Okay.

• 2:12:10Speaker 02

  Passenger, passenger freighter, or otherwise, they, nobody wants them. Period. Yeah, nobody wants them. Like, United really likes their 78s. American really wants to like the seven eights, but they are, but they won't, they can't get them delivered because they can't build the seven eights anymore. So they, I, I think they probably kick the tires on the A three fifty and within the next five years. Delta fucking loves the Airbus stuff. They genuinely don't want to touch the Boeings anymore.

• 2:12:43Justin Roczniak?

  What? No, I got a weird cramp in my foot.

• 2:12:48November Kelly?

  We're doing endurance podcasting.

• 2:12:51November Kelly?

  He's a flash up the, no, it's all good. We just need to flash up the, the thing ahead of time. That's like a photosensitive epilepsy can strike at any time. And also remember to like get up and drink water and walk around for about every couple of hours.

• 2:13:03Justin Roczniak?

  This is true. This is true.

• 2:13:06Justin Roczniak?

  One of the things that's frustrating about this, as, as an airline passenger, I do prefer Boeings because the windows are bigger.

• 2:13:14Speaker 02

  This is true. Yeah.

• 2:13:16Speaker 02

  I, I.

• 2:13:17November Kelly?

  What do you need the big window for to see all the land you have stolen?

• 2:13:20Justin Roczniak?

  No, I need, I need to see, uh, why you need a big window to see men?

• 2:13:27November Kelly?

  Because we would support this because we are the worker option, obviously.

• 2:13:33Speaker 02

  This is true and it's, this is true, especially because I sit in the aisle seat typically. So I like to, you know, see it's better, it's easier to see out there. But of most of the airlines that have purchased this are airlines with either very strange fleet configurations or airlines with too much money. Uh, which covers most of the Middle Eastern airlines we've talked about. It also covers Singapore Airlines.

• 2:13:54Speaker 02

  Korean Air and Lufthansa are both airlines that have weird configurations. British Airways has ordered like 50 of them, which is a, I will kind of want to make fun of Britain for it, but we make the plane. So I'm not, not sure what direction I can take.

• 2:14:11November Kelly?

  What are we in this for?

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  But you did buy the plane at least.

• 2:14:16November Kelly?

  Like, yeah, no, I'm not saying we're not stupid.

• 2:14:19Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:14:21Speaker 02

  Uh, on the Pan Airways and Japan has bought them, but they are in a bizarre relationship where they cannot stop giving Boeing money for some reason. Air India also bought some. It's also kind of strange. I'm not really sure why.

• 2:14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no, there are no zero American carriers, only the two European carriers, and I'm counting British Airways in that. Ethiopian has some cargo lux, has some the cargo airline.

• 2:14:50Liam McAnderson?

  This is sounding better and better, I think. This is good, right?

• 2:14:55Speaker 02

  This is true. So of course, so they can't seem to sell them to any airlines, which is great. Even whenever production, even whenever development and manufacturing is going well. Next slide, please. In early, this is a picture of an engine, we'll get up to something to do with that.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  Early 2022, Boeing tells investors that the plane is delayed again, this time to 2025, which is the current year.

• 2:15:20Justin Roczniak?

  Wow. That means it'll probably come out this year, right?

• 2:15:24Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, dummy.

• 2:15:25Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:27Speaker 02

  In October of 2022, Boeing experiences what they call a technical issue.

• 2:15:31November Kelly?

  It's an uncommanded stock price pitch event.

• 2:15:36Speaker 02

  They attribute that to one of the aircraft's engines. They don't really elaborate.

• 2:15:42Speaker 02

  But they they suspend the test flights as a result.

• 2:15:45Liam McAnderson?

  That's how you know it's going well.

• 2:15:46Speaker 02

  Yes. They don't really clarify when they restart test flights, and I can't really find any information on it. I probably could if I wanted to look through flight logs enough, but I honestly don't. Best as far as I can tell is like early 2023. That is actually the only thing that happens in 2023. It's otherwise fine. They just keep flying it on test flights over and over again and not getting it certified.

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  None of them crashed, so that part's good.

• 2:16:12Speaker 02

  2024, Boeing is still telling airlines that it'll be delivered by 2025. Lufthansa is telling investors that they think it'll be like 2027 at the earliest.

• 2:16:25Speaker 02

  In August of 2024, they take a test flight from Washington to Hawaii. Where they give a routine maintenance inspection. Which reveals a crack on the thrust link of the engine, which is circled here. It's the big piece of titanium that actually transfers the thrust from the engines to the airframes. Boeing initially dismisses this as just a trivial issue for the one singular test airplane. Although the fact that it was on both engines means, as far as I can tell, means that that's obviously false to begin with. They promised to replace it on that airplane and inspect the rest of the fleet in short order. They do that the following week where they find cracks in the thrust links on every single airframe that they have built to this point.

• 2:17:07Justin Roczniak?

  That, that's, that sounds, I think titanium is a metal. If there's a crack in that.

• 2:17:14Speaker 02

  Titanium is a metal, Justin Rozek. You heard it here first, folks.

• 2:17:16Justin Roczniak?

  Less, less, less, it's ductile. It's ductile. It shouldn't be cracking in the first place under any kind of normal load.

• 2:17:25Speaker 02

  So they, they ground the whole program again and they talk and they sort of blame it on the engine design. That, which is a tacit way to pass blame with a general electric. Problem is they built the thrust link. So, you know. Oops.

• 2:17:38November Kelly?

  What today is it?

• 2:17:40Speaker 02

  So, you know, that's great.

• 2:17:44Speaker 02

  So this is August of 2024.

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  What comes up next is not directly related to the plane, but it's not great. Next slide, please. Every single IAM machinist that is building the 777X is now on strike as of September 13th. Having rejected the proposed contracts given to them with 94.6% of the vote. Which is not where you want to be in terms of negotiating these things.

• 2:18:13November Kelly?

  Maybe you should give them a better offer.

• 2:18:15Speaker 02

  Yes. On October 8th, all negotiations between, between machinist union and Boeing break down completely and they walk away from the table. Boeing files a complaint with the, with the NLRB about this for some reason. I'm not really sure why. I think the most, the best descriptor I can come up with for, with it, for it would be whining.

• 2:18:40Speaker 02

  On like a corporate level, doesn't matter. It doesn't go anywhere.

• 2:18:43Justin Roczniak?

  That's all they got these days.

• 2:18:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:18:48Speaker 02

  On October 12th, the CEO of Boeing had announced a 10% cut in their total workforce, laying off, so laying off 10% of all workers, company-wide, union and non-union, to my understanding. And of course, in, at the bottom of that statement is buried a delay of the 777X project to 2026.

• 2:19:09Justin Roczniak?

  Any day now.

• 2:19:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:19:10Liam McAnderson?

  Any day now.

• 2:19:11Justin Roczniak?

  Damn.

• 2:19:13Speaker 02

  On October 14th, the, see, the president of Emirates, which is of course, again, the largest customer of the 777X, and buys a lot of planes from Boeing in general, goes to Business Insider with a statement of how pissed off he is at Boeing management.

• 2:19:32Liam McAnderson?

  Nice.

• 2:19:33Speaker 02

  Which is not, not where you want to be as a company, to have your biggest customer for the project be very mad at you, and talk about how, you know, nobody could ever trust delivery timeline, your company is ever give, is ever again.

• 2:19:47Justin Roczniak?

  Hmm.

• 2:19:48Speaker 02

  Interestingly, I don't think they actually reduced the order after that. They just, he just kind of wanted to be mad online, which is fair, you can do that.

• 2:19:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, we all love to do that.

• 2:19:58Speaker 02

  Especially if you're a CEO nowadays, it is in fact, in vogue to be a CEO and very mad online.

• 2:20:04Justin Roczniak?

  This is true.

• 2:20:06Speaker 02

  So, yeah, not great for them. They, IAM and Boeing eventually ratify a new contract on November 1st, which they do with a, with 59% support from union workers, which isn't a great number if you are a union or management.

• 2:20:23Justin Roczniak?

  This is true. Yeah, that is.

• 2:20:25Liam McAnderson?

  Not so good.

• 2:20:26Justin Roczniak?

  You, you, you're better off if you have like a side numbers.

• 2:20:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:20:30Justin Roczniak?

  You know?

• 2:20:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:31Justin Roczniak?

  That's what you prefer to have.

• 2:20:33Speaker 02

  Yep. So this strike lasts, this, this work stoppage and strike lasts about two months, cost Boeing about $10 billion.

• 2:20:40Liam McAnderson?

  Fuck me. Good.

• 2:20:42Speaker 02

  So, again, with the, they cannot stop losing money. They, they eventually fixed the, the engine, the thrust link problem. I, I wrote the engine thrust doohickey, which is kind of fair. That's what it looks like to me. They are flying test flights again by mid-January of this past year, so four months ago, or whenever it is. I, I accidentally saw the first test flight. It was in the Costco parking lot, which is just short of Boeing Field in Seattle. Myself and my girlfriend were both very stunned and laughed, pointed and laughed at it.

• 2:21:15Speaker 02

  So it's a it's a large aircraft. It's impressive to see. It just also is a bad aircraft.

• 2:21:20Liam McAnderson?

  I like that.

• 2:21:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:21:24Speaker 02

  Boeing later in January tells Lufthansa that they should expect delivery in 2026. Lufthansa, of course, previously had projected 2027. I believe by now they're probably projecting 2028.

• 2:21:37Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, it's never coming, huh? This fucking slaps.

• 2:21:41Speaker 02

  Yep. So, um, yeah, everybody, including Emirates this time, is pretty skeptical of that. That's where we are today. Boeing makes two commercial airplanes. They are the 737 company pretty much specifically at this point. They're moving their headquarters to the Pentagon. I suspect at this point, they only give a shit about defense contracts, especially now that they're going to be able to get a lot more defense contracts.

• 2:22:05Justin Roczniak?

  It's gonna be interesting when Airbus has a global monopoly on passenger planes.

• 2:22:09Liam McAnderson?

  That's true.

• 2:22:11November Kelly?

  Much safer though, because of the wokeness.

• 2:22:16Speaker 02

  But, um, yeah, that that's where we are today. The plane is supposed to come out in 2026 or 2027 or 2028, depending on who you ask.

• 2:22:25November Kelly?

  Great. I love when a plane is in development hell.

• 2:22:28Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, me too. I like, yeah, it's like New Doom. Exactly.

• 2:22:33Justin Roczniak?

  It's it's confusing and infuriating.

• 2:22:36Liam McAnderson?

  When does the Dark Ages come out? Soon. May 15th. I'm so excited.

• 2:22:39November Kelly?

  It refers to a paucity of sources rather than a period of intellectual decline.

• 2:22:43Justin Roczniak?

  I was also going to say that.

• 2:22:48Speaker 02

  I, uh, my my bet is that Boeing is out of the is just out of the industry by like the late the 2030 probably. Like, not just with this plane. My guess is that they either they spin off the 737 into its own company and just just take defense money.

• 2:23:04Justin Roczniak?

  It refers to a paucity of airplanes, not a. Well, and also an intellectual decline. Let's get real here.

• 2:23:13Speaker 02

  So, uh, yeah, th- th- there's no number for what the triple seven program has cost them in total.

• 2:23:19Liam McAnderson?

  A lot.

• 2:23:21Speaker 02

  My like random off the back of my ass, uh, number is probably somewhere in the 20 billion mark, especially because they keep taking, uh, tax penalties whenever they delay it more.

• 2:23:32November Kelly?

  It's it's all McDonnell Douglas's fault.

• 2:23:35Speaker 02

  Uh, genuinely, this is what most people think.

• 2:23:37November Kelly?

  This is what McDonnell Douglas has wrought.

• 2:23:39Justin Roczniak?

  We're gonna wind up in a situation where it's impossible to build airplanes. Um, the intercity buses have all sold themselves off into oblivion.

• 2:23:50Liam McAnderson?

  Or maybe Alfa Romeo would get it.

• 2:23:52Justin Roczniak?

  And then Trump privatizes M track, um, and then no one's going to be able to go anywhere anymore. Uh, they are going to impose 15 minute cities because it will be impossible to get 15 minutes away from your house.

• 2:24:08Speaker 02

  That's, that's all that I have. It's a great, it's, it's a, it's a great company with a great legacy. Uh, and that's just, and I'm saying that very tongue in cheek.

• 2:24:16Liam McAnderson?

  Shit it up. All right. We want to move on to, to safety turd.

• 2:24:21Justin Roczniak?

  Well, what did we learn?

• 2:24:22Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, this plane's never coming, bro.

• 2:24:24November Kelly?

  If, if it's Bowen, you ain't going.

• 2:24:26Liam McAnderson?

  You ain't going, uh, if it's McDonnell Douglas, we're gonna kill you.

• 2:24:31November Kelly?

  I will, I will work on the shirts. I have like once an episode now I generate a bit that I can turn into a shirt or put a link in the description.

• 2:24:40Speaker 02

  This is excellent. This is excellent. I would, I, I can buy that one.

• 2:24:44Justin Roczniak?

  All right. Well, we have a segment on this podcast called Safety Third.

• 2:24:49Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, he's sleeping.

• 2:24:52Justin Roczniak?

  No, I got stressed out because someone's in my backyard doing something.

• 2:24:56Liam McAnderson?

  Again, why?

• 2:24:57Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. There's a drill going, I think.

• 2:24:59November Kelly?

  Looking for nuclear weapons.

• 2:25:01Justin Roczniak?

  I know, right? Well, that's not mine.

• 2:25:06Justin Roczniak?

  Ahoy, November, Justin, Liam, and various guest hosts.

• 2:25:09Liam McAnderson?

  Correct.

• 2:25:10November Kelly?

  Yeah, no.

• 2:25:11Speaker 02

  Guest host plural is slightly questionable if you wanted to nitpick something, but.

• 2:25:17Justin Roczniak?

  Today's story involves a rusty pickup truck, a 1930s tractor, a forklift, a bunch of World War II veterans, child labor, some ropes, a military cargo net, a couple of old mattresses, and most importantly, a Boeing B-29 Super Fortress.

• 2:25:34Liam McAnderson?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:25:35November Kelly?

  What do you call an act like that?

• 2:25:36Speaker 02

  Somatic.

• 2:25:38Liam McAnderson?

  The aristocrats. Yeah, hey, I'm on it.

• 2:25:43Justin Roczniak?

  As a teenager, I volunteered as an apprentice mechanic at a local aviation museum.

• 2:25:49Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no.

• 2:25:49Justin Roczniak?

  On this particular day, our task was to remove the vertical stabilizer from a Boeing B-29 Super Fortress that was slated to be restored. The all-volunteer staff included myself, two other high schoolers, and five WW2 veterans.

• 2:26:08November Kelly?

  When, when, when was this? Because how old are these men?

• 2:26:11Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, that's a good question.

• 2:26:14Justin Roczniak?

  I think, I think that's revealed later.

• 2:26:16November Kelly?

  Okay.

• 2:26:17Justin Roczniak?

  Being the most athletic and nimble of the crew, my role was to use various ladders to jerry-rig a cargo net borrowed from a local military union around the top of the stabilizer, then to attach some ropes to it, and then attach those ropes at one end to an antique tractor usually used for mowing the outdoor display area of the museum, and to a heavy-duty pickup truck at the other end.

• 2:26:44November Kelly?

  They're gonna tear it apart, like, by lashing it to horses?

• 2:26:48Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:49Justin Roczniak?

  The idea was that I would remove the bolts on one side of the stabilizer and loosen the bolts on the other side and have them act as a hinge. The pickup truck would pull on the rope, and eventually, gravity would tilt the vertical stabilizer slowly down onto the horizontal stabilizer, which had used mattresses that I would position on top of it to act as cushioning. The attached 1930s farm tractor at the other end would use its brakes, operated by a geriatric born in the 1920s, to control the descent.

• 2:27:29Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah. America's greatest generation.

• 2:27:33Justin Roczniak?

  We began this stupid mission, which in hindsight should have been done with a crane.

• 2:27:37November Kelly?

  I feel like the phrase, we began this stupid mission attached to a B 29, not the first time. Probably not even, not even the thousandth time.

• 2:27:48Justin Roczniak?

  At first, everything was going well. I ascended a ladder leaning against the right horizontal stabilizer with a bag of tools. And remove the rusty hardware from the vertical stabilizer attach points of the B 29. Then scrambled down and climbed another ladder on the left stabilizer to position the mattresses we had forklifted up. While I was stepping over the forklift tines, adjusting the mattresses without any fall restraining gear. With only one exit other than jumping, jumping to my likely death.

• 2:28:25November Kelly?

  I'm pretty high up.

• 2:28:27Justin Roczniak?

  The dear old man's foot on the ancient tractor slipped off the brake.

• 2:28:31Speaker 02

  Great. Excellent.

• 2:28:32Justin Roczniak?

  Cause he was in his eighties and it was an ancient tractor and the colossal tower of America's previous power started coming down really fast.

• 2:28:42November Kelly?

  How do you ask someone to be the last person to get killed by a B 29 super fortress?

• 2:28:49Justin Roczniak?

  I remember hearing the truck driver yelling, oh God, no.

• 2:28:55November Kelly?

  I've read Randall Jarrell's poetry. I know these things are powered by blood and you gotta recharge him every now and again, but like. Seems unfair for it to be high schoolers, at least the high schoolers in the eighties.

• 2:29:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thankfully I was an athletic 15 year old at the time. So was able to parkour style flip myself off the stabilizer. Somehow I landed on a forklift as the massive sheet metal beast came down with a thump so big. It shook an entire B 29, which weighs approximately 75,000 pounds. Thankfully I had positioned the mattresses in a way such that it was only lightly damaged. And was later repaired by skilled sheet metal technicians.

• 2:29:38November Kelly?

  Hit it with hammers. Hit it with wooden mallets until it looks right again. Hammers, yeah.

• 2:29:43Speaker 02

  God bless you for having, for the mattress positioning work there.

• 2:29:47Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, well, the good news is, you know, the tariffs are going to bring back this type of.

• 2:29:54Justin Roczniak?

  This type of skill set, you know?

• 2:29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Specifically the 15 year old part as well.

• 2:29:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. I climbed off the forklift, which saved me from a roughly 12 foot drop to the ground. And after catching our breath, one old soldier said, well, that was scary, but we still got the job done. Let's continue. So I again climbed aboard the weary bomber and removed the hardware on the other side, cut all the remaining wires and control cables. I took the borrowed cargo net off and used the ropes and the net to kinky bondage style, wrapped the stabilizer to the forklift. And we lifted the vertical stabilizer, which was now a second horizontal position. Now, okay, yeah.

• 2:30:37Justin Roczniak?

  Off of the B 29 and into a hangar where the wacky army of kids and geriatrics muscled it onto wooden sawhorses.

• 2:30:46November Kelly?

  This is, this is you, you, you had an apprentice job working for the boomers in Fallout New Vegas.

• 2:30:54Justin Roczniak?

  I sometimes reflect on weird ways to be killed and being killed by a World War II bomber 50 years after the end of World War II is admittedly pretty weird.

• 2:31:04November Kelly?

  Can't argue with that.

• 2:31:05Justin Roczniak?

  I dearly enjoy your show and look forward to many future episodes. All the best from Piper.

• 2:31:11November Kelly?

  Good name to work with planes.

• 2:31:13Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:31:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 2:31:14November Kelly?

  Thank you.

• 2:31:15Justin Roczniak?

  This is what happens when you work with Boeing airplanes.

• 2:31:18Speaker 02

  I was gonna say.

• 2:31:22Speaker 02

  It's been a great day for Boeing aircraft in general here.

• 2:31:26November Kelly?

  How do you say you are Boeing to die in German?

• 2:31:31Justin Roczniak?

  Anyway, that was Safety Third.

• 2:31:37Justin Roczniak?

  Our next episode will be on Chernobyl. I don't think we did any announcements about the tour. There are still tickets available in New York City on the 29th and in Philadelphia on the 4th.

• 2:31:49November Kelly?

  Yep. I will, I will regretfully not be there in person on account of I don't want to go to El Salvador.

• 2:31:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 2:31:57Justin Roczniak?

  Strong, uh, strong issue at the moment.

• 2:32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:01Justin Roczniak?

  Does anyone have any commercials before we go?

• 2:32:03Speaker 02

  Says something about the, the worst of all possible worlds?

• 2:32:06Justin Roczniak?

  No, I copied that from an earlier.

• 2:32:10Justin Roczniak?

  Everyone knows I went on worst of all possible worlds to, uh, talk about falling down. I've probably said that three times now because I've copied the slide three times.

• 2:32:20November Kelly?

  Flying home in a straight line.

• 2:32:23Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  I need to get tickets for the Philadelphia show and figure out a way to go.

• 2:32:28November Kelly?

  We'll figure out a way to comp you.

• 2:32:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:30November Kelly?

  Oh, okay. Maya, thank you so much. If the people want more Maya, where can they find more Maya?

• 2:32:34Speaker 02

  You can find me at a lot of places. The easiest way is to actually go to my website, the Maya Venture Information Network. That would be www dot Maya, M A Y A, walk with me, walk with dot me, M E. That is a David Lynch reference.

• 2:32:50November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:32:51Speaker 02

  So if you need to know how to spell any of that, just look up the Twin Peaks film. You can find me at on X, the everything app. The triple seven X, the everything plane under the same username without the dodge. You can find me on Blue Sky at the same username with the dot because it's weird federated systems. You can find me in print, hopefully by the time this comes out, you go buy 2600 magazine, which is available at most Barnes and Nobles. I write a sub stack, which is how I got here because I wrote an article about this.

• 2:33:22Speaker 02

  Subscribe to my sub stack, please. I am poor and would like money. I think that's it.

• 2:33:26Justin Roczniak?

  All right.

• 2:33:26November Kelly?

  Fantastic.

• 2:33:27Justin Roczniak?

  More like trip triple seven X, the nothing plane.

• 2:33:30Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 2:33:32November Kelly?

  Got their ass.

• 2:33:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Wow. All right.

• 2:33:35Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:33:35Justin Roczniak?

  We did it. That was a podcast. All right. Good afternoon, everyone.