Episode 191: The Great Seattle Fire

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, it's like, uh, it's like that time, Liam, you remember that time we went to, uh, I forget what the entire circumstances were, but we were walking into a liquor store.

• 0:10Liam McAnderson?

  We were at the liquor store and you were levitating.

• 0:12Justin Roczniak?

  I, I was like, Liam, what's the opposite of coffee? How do I get that?

• 0:18November Kelly?

  Alcohol, that's beer.

• 0:20Liam McAnderson?

  I was like, and I just flatly said heroin.

• 0:23November Kelly?

  Yeah, that's a better answer. If you think about it this way.

• 0:26Liam McAnderson?

  I was very funny.

• 0:28November Kelly?

  Excites you and makes you shit yourself, right? Whereas if you want something that like, yeah, exactly. Depresses you, makes you unable to shit yourself.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  Cooking up an industrial grade slow fast.

• 0:40Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, God.

• 0:42November Kelly?

  Instantly, immediately, I, I hope that they don't put age verification on watching this video as well. But just because we talked about coffee making us shit ourselves.

• 0:52Justin Roczniak?

  What, what's a, what's a, what's a slow fast?

• 0:54Speaker 03

  Slow fast is, it's an old, it's an old Tumblr post really, but it's like, somebody was like, I mixed like NyQuil and DayQuil. And I was hoping it would make, to create quill. And it was, and I don't remember exactly how they get to the punchline. But the punchline of the whole thing is it's slow fast. It feels incredibly bad. And it's just like the feeling of vibrating while you're also so tired that you can't think.

• 1:17Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. So we already invented that. It was called a speed ball.

• 1:23November Kelly?

  The thing that killed George V?

• 1:26Justin Roczniak?

  That's also alcohol withdrawal.

• 1:29November Kelly?

  Ah.

• 1:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, kids, don't do that. Um, just keep drinking.

• 1:35Liam McAnderson?

  God damn it, Ross. Yeah, the DTs are not for me.

• 1:41Liam McAnderson?

  I, as someone who has drank so bad, he's got the shakes before. You don't, you don't want that smoke. You don't want that mess.

• 1:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:48Liam McAnderson?

  My twenties, my twenties were a bad time. Ross was there.

• 1:51November Kelly?

  I am, I am the fabled occasional drinker, the social drinker, and I'm, I'm just back from having two gin and tonics.

• 1:59Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:59Justin Roczniak?

  Two gin and tonics.

• 2:01November Kelly?

  Here's the thing, right? I, because, because I'm on Manjaro, right? One of the things that does is it really compresses and destroys your ability to like, um, consume food and alcohol. So I had a lovely time, um, having my two gin and tonics at the pub with new people, making friends.

• 2:22November Kelly?

  Felt like I was getting a good grade in social interaction. Felt very garrulous, all of this. Came home, was like, I'm starving. I'm gonna order myself a burger and be a real treat, right? And I had like sort of two bites of the burger and I'm now currently in the vestibule of hell. The anteroom of hell, the place where you go where you know that at some point in the course of your work recording, the two gins and tonics, which are a lot when you don't weigh anything, and the sort of two bites of burger are gonna really all catch up with you at once. So if I start groaning like I've just been punched in the solar plexus, that's why.

• 2:57Liam McAnderson?

  Ignore her. Yeah. We're going to, what we're going to do is I am, I am on, on that Zemi and they're switching me to uh Manjaro or the other one whose name I can't recall right now, Zepbound.

• 3:08November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 3:08Liam McAnderson?

  I think they're putting me on that Jaro and uh, and I, I have, I have made at like, as, as I drank on antidepressants, so I shall drink on GLP-1s.

• 3:20November Kelly?

  Watch out for that 7.5 milligrams. It's got hands.

• 3:23Liam McAnderson?

  And they're like, don't do that. And I'm just like, I can't hear you. I like Jameson too much.

• 3:28November Kelly?

  No, no, listen, listen. Let me, let me explain to you something about drinking on Manjaro, right? The first time, because I am an occasional drinker, right? And so.

• 3:37Liam McAnderson?

  Favorite secure drinker.

• 3:39November Kelly?

  Yeah, I had been on it for a few months. The first time I had a drink.

• 3:43Liam McAnderson?

  Because I was reading Secure Boot. Yes, go on.

• 3:45Justin Roczniak?

  If they don't want you to drink on that drug, they shouldn't make it sound like a delicious tropical cocktail.

• 3:50November Kelly?

  That's true. That is speaking of delicious tropical cocktails.

• 3:53Liam McAnderson?

  Right, okay, go ahead. Yes.

• 3:55November Kelly?

  Let me finish the fucking story. So.

• 3:59November Kelly?

  I was in London. We, we had done a live show um and in the course of an evening uh we went to a Mexican restaurant. London has a couple of good Mexican restaurants and I was like, okay, I've done all my work. Fuck it. Let's, let's get lit. Right? Let's, let's have margaritas and let's keep having margaritas. And let's do some good old fashioned British binge drinking, right? Let's, let's just have a night to not remember. And I got to three margaritas, which is not a high number um by sort of binge drinking standards. Standards. And then I got every single stage of drunkenness and hungover at the same time.

• 4:39November Kelly?

  It was like getting hit by a truck. I genuinely, I was having the fucking interstellar time compression where I was like, I'm still buzzed, I'm too drunk, I'm way too drunk, I'm sobering up, I am hungover, I'm really hungover in an, in the same instant. And once you experience that, you will not want to drink a lot on the jar.

• 5:01Liam McAnderson?

  All right. Well, thank you. I'm gonna go ahead and put that in the castle of ignorance and uh.

• 5:07November Kelly?

  God fucking damn it. Okay.

• 5:09Justin Roczniak?

  Go have a wonderful Manjaro with a slice of lime and salted lime.

• 5:12Liam McAnderson?

  Yo, Roz, Roz.

• 5:14November Kelly?

  Dipping my Manjaro in the waters of the Caribbean like Rihanna.

• 5:18Liam McAnderson?

  The next time you're over, uh, I have a rum cocktail book, so I will be putting your ass to work.

• 5:23Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, oh, you, you, you're making me make all the cocktails from the type of liquor I refuse to drink. Yes.

• 5:30Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, it's because you got too shitty on Captain Morgan when you were a freshman. That's not my.

• 5:33Justin Roczniak?

  It wasn't Captain Morgan. It was, it was worse than that. It was the.

• 5:36Liam McAnderson?

  What did you, what was it Admiral Nelson?

• 5:39Justin Roczniak?

  No, it's like, it's like the one that's like a hundred and fifty proof.

• 5:42November Kelly?

  Oh, um, Ray, Ray and nephew overproof or whatever it's called.

• 5:46Liam McAnderson?

  Ray and nephew, Bacardi one fifty one, there's Gosling's one fifty one.

• 5:50Justin Roczniak?

  I think it was Gosling one fifty one, cause it had the seal on it.

• 5:53November Kelly?

  Why would Ryan Gosling do this to you?

• 5:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, I was, uh, I got really fucked up. Yeah, exactly. That was not good.

• 6:02November Kelly?

  My, my moment where I drank too much all at once and I decided I couldn't drink that way again when I was, um, seventeen. Uh, it was, I would say, almost all of a bottle of absolute raspberry vodka.

• 6:17Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, I love a little raspberry.

• 6:19November Kelly?

  You start feeling the flavor in a flavored vodka pretty quickly. That might. It sticks around.

• 6:26Liam McAnderson?

  Mine is Magellan Jit on food poisoning. I've drank on food poisoning. Do not do that.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Drinking an entire bottle of raspberry flavored Absolut feels like the most woman-coated thing you've ever done, including transition.

• 6:39November Kelly?

  I was simultaneously a young woman and a young gay boy at that moment in my life. And both of those are demographics highly vulnerable to drinking too much flavored vodka and throwing up a color no one's seen before.

• 6:54Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah. Vodka, the color of fear. When you dissolve the Skittles in the bu- I got you. Yeah.

• 6:58Justin Roczniak?

  This reminds me of the, this reminds me of the menthol vodka at the Street Fight Show.

• 7:03Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, don't remind me of the menthol vodka.

• 7:07Liam McAnderson?

  And then I don't remember what happened after. I think we just went, did we just go home? Or did we go to the bar?

• 7:11Justin Roczniak?

  No, no. We, we, we hung out and talked to Allison and June afterwards. That was when I met June.

• 7:18November Kelly?

  That's right. Okay. November's, November's drinking stories. I got one more before we start the podcast that we get paid to do and we're here to record. Are we familiar with a drink called Advocat? Two, two A's in the end. Yes, you are. Okay, good.

• 7:33Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, we are. We're, we're familiar with that.

• 7:34November Kelly?

  You're familiar with the Devil's Eggnog. So.

• 7:36Liam McAnderson?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, of course.

• 7:39November Kelly?

  What if the kind of satanic Hollanders made an alcoholic custard? And what if you at Christmas decided to drink kind of too much of it and felt the kind of heaviness of that gastricly, very intensely? It is a slime. It's an alcoholic slime. It like climbs up the sides of the bottle.

• 8:02Liam McAnderson?

  Cramping in ways that have never been seen before.

• 8:05November Kelly?

  It tastes really good for the first little bit.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  I have learned so much about various fucked kinds of British liquors since like joining onto this show. It's crazy. I know what I'm doing next time I come to Scotland.

• 8:20November Kelly?

  Yes.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  I'm gonna have that and then I'm gonna go, what was that? Yeah, Buckfast.

• 8:24Justin Roczniak?

  That would definitely be an interesting like D and D villain or enemy or whatever you call it is alcoholic slime.

• 8:36November Kelly?

  This is how we're all gonna go out is getting consumed in the gelatinous alcoholic slime.

• 8:42Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that's how Ross and I are going out at the very least. It's been good knowing you, buddy.

• 8:47November Kelly?

  You know what we should do? We should do a sync point. We should count down.

• 8:49Liam McAnderson?

  One more story.

• 8:50Justin Roczniak?

  We should do.

• 8:51Liam McAnderson?

  I'm doing Death Dog. We're gonna run it out to.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Are these all going in the show?

• 8:55November Kelly?

  No, we'll cut all of these out. They're 100% going in.

• 8:59Liam McAnderson?

  They're going in. I'm trying not to creak my chairs.

• 9:01Justin Roczniak?

  Tell us all the most embarrassing things you've done when you were drunk.

• 9:06Liam McAnderson?

  Bombay Sapphire, you son of a bitch.

• 9:09November Kelly?

  Oh, Bombay Sapphire.

• 9:11Liam McAnderson?

  I made Death Dog, which was.

• 9:15Justin Roczniak?

  I remember, I remember the Death Dog.

• 9:18Liam McAnderson?

  Remember Death Dog? Yeah. Well, it didn't do its job right. If you survived, I failed.

• 9:25Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, the Death Dog did not kill me. No.

• 9:28Liam McAnderson?

  No, it killed Joy. It killed, I think it killed Joe. I think it may have killed a friend of the show, Aaron, last name redacted.

• 9:35November Kelly?

  What the hell did you put in the nog?

• 9:37Liam McAnderson?

  It was a lot. It was a death. I put it with, I put in Wild Turkey 101 and like a splash of Everclear.

• 9:45November Kelly?

  Oh.

• 9:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it was some, that was some, that was some nog right there.

• 9:50Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, you liked it, I think, for the first cup. And then I think if I recall correctly, you refused to drink any more of it on ethical grounds.

• 9:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I switched to beer, which is what I do. So I don't, you know, have liquor prop. Liquor doesn't treat me very well. That's why I drink beer.

• 10:05Liam McAnderson?

  Bourbon treats you all right.

• 10:06November Kelly?

  Which can never harm you.

• 10:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, beer, beer is.

• 10:08Liam McAnderson?

  Beer is my friend.

• 10:09Justin Roczniak?

  Cause of and solution to all my problems.

• 10:12Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. All right. Let's do a sync point.

• 10:15Justin Roczniak?

  Sure. Okay. I'm gonna do three, two, one, mark. Three, two, one, mark. Okay.

• 10:23Justin Roczniak?

  Hello and welcome to Well, There's Your Problem. It's a podcast about engineering disasters with slides. I'm Justin Roczniak. I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go.

• 10:36November Kelly?

  I'm November Kelly. I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are she and her. Yeah, Liam.

• 10:41Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, Liam, as recently promoted assistant to the world's sleepiest boy, Justin Roczniak. Hi, I'm Liam McAnderson. My pronouns are he/him. And we have, uh, Jesus wept, man. Get a tissue.

• 10:55November Kelly?

  And we have a recurring guest host.

• 10:58Justin Roczniak?

  Recurring guest slash host.

• 11:00Liam McAnderson?

  World champion.

• 11:00November Kelly?

  Modern apprentice.

• 11:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 11:02November Kelly?

  World champion of podcast appearances.

• 11:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, suck that shit, Gareth.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  Hi, my name is Victoria Scott. My pronouns are she and her.

• 11:13November Kelly?

  Perfect. Beautiful.

• 11:15Justin Roczniak?

  All right.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  What else needs to be said?

• 11:17Liam McAnderson?

  So I guess we can all go home, right? Toria.

• 11:19November Kelly?

  Yeah, exactly. More booze stories and I'm just gonna yell over you whenever you try and stop me. I enjoyed this guy on the sort of, um, uh, sort of bridge here phasing through existence. Yeah, I think we, I think we have. I think we formed a kind of hive mind here.

• 11:33Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Oh, this is just Mirage Block Magic with the phasing. Yeah.

• 11:37Justin Roczniak?

  That's what the new, that's what, that's what the new popular television show is about, right?

• 11:42November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. Liam and I are pleuribus now.

• 11:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 11:46Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, I gotta watch that. I have.

• 11:48Justin Roczniak?

  I haven't seen it.

• 11:49November Kelly?

  God fucking, do none of you keep up with your, like, responsibilities as content creators to stay abreast of American popular culture? I had to watch 18 billion seasons of Breaking Bad and pretend it was good, just so people think I was cool long enough to pay, like, to pay me $2 a month.

• 12:08Liam McAnderson?

  I'll die on that hill.

• 12:09Justin Roczniak?

  Look, I got a lot of things to work through. I'm not even finished with Columbo yet.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  My wife and I are watching that, actually.

• 12:16Liam McAnderson?

  And he's on, what season?

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Fantastic.

• 12:18Liam McAnderson?

  What season? Are you on season two of The Sopranos yet, Roz?

• 12:22Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, and I actually got through all of The Sopranos, but the last few seasons were a blur.

• 12:27November Kelly?

  The fun, the fun thing about watching Columbo with your wife is that you get to do a, see my wife knows a lot about Columbo bit every time.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's delightful for that. It's also delightful because Columbo is like the consummate car guy. And there's a whole, there's, there's the like, we just started season two and like the best episode that I've seen so far. A crucial part of like how he solves the mystery is he pays really close attention to this guy's Jaguar E-type. And I'm just like, oh my God, he's just like me for real. Like I would absolutely be like, oh, it's a beautiful machine you got there. And also he drives, he drives like a Peugeot 503 convertible that apparently Peter Falk found on the Universal lot and was like, oh, that's cool. I'll make them pay to fix this up for the show. This will be his car. I didn't, I literally, I was shocked because I couldn't identify it. I was like, what the hell is he driving?

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Anyway, it's, it's great. One thing, actually.

• 13:23November Kelly?

  One more thing, and it's the rest of the podcast.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. So about this, about this photograph.

• 13:29November Kelly?

  Yeah, you could buy some, some latrine boots and shoes, which sounds disgusting.

• 13:35November Kelly?

  Welcome back.

• 13:35Liam McAnderson?

  Thank you. Like I said, if I crash several more times, I just need to get through my news item and then I, that's all I care about, frankly.

• 13:42November Kelly?

  Okay, sure.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  That's, that's totally fair.

• 13:44Liam McAnderson?

  Welcome to the Liam verse. Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is, this is part of my plan. Actually, I've targeted your apartment with bad internet so I can usurp you and move up in the pronoun introduction order.

• 13:56Liam McAnderson?

  I prefer to go last.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  I want to say yay Liam.

• 13:59Liam McAnderson?

  Hand to God, if it were up to me, I would just go last every time.

• 14:03November Kelly?

  You know, we can't just do that. We don't have to do sort of complicated coups on the, okay.

• 14:09Liam McAnderson?

  Let's cruise all the way down Nova.

• 14:12Justin Roczniak?

  Ah, like a bunch of pigeons.

• 14:19Liam McAnderson?

  That one really got me.

• 14:21November Kelly?

  That was really cute. Yeah.

• 14:24Liam McAnderson?

  That really got me. I like that one.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  Anyway, this is a this is a picture of the city of Seattle.

• 14:33November Kelly?

  But that can't be true. I don't see any like trans furry stickers in this.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  This was this was when they were still importing the trans furies. This is 1889. They had just invented trans people. Furies would come out in 1905.

• 14:47November Kelly?

  Remember when they assigned you a first sona on Ellis Island?

• 14:50Justin Roczniak?

  Bunch of a bunch of cat girls off the boat from Japan.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Anyway, the the city shouldn't look like that, or maybe it should.

• 15:00November Kelly?

  There are some people who disagree. Yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  It's like there's a there's a it was actually this was a this is an episode about the great Seattle fire of 1889. This is immediately afterward and it's it's pretty bad.

• 15:15November Kelly?

  I gotta say, feeling pretty good about my decision to buy a latrine boots and shoes. Yeah, or I mean, the name is still disgusting, but the guy's still got like a hoarding up, which is, you know, it shows get up and go on entrepreneurship.

• 15:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, this is where my shop used to be. I'm still gonna sell shit here.

• 15:31Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, exactly. What are they gonna do? Kick me out?

• 15:34Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, and actually you can kind of see like this is if for people who live in Seattle. This is the all the street names kind of stayed the same. So like you can actually kind of recognize like that's West Seattle on the other side of the water there. And you can kind of like recognize sort of where this is.

• 15:52November Kelly?

  I'm excited to be talking about this.

• 15:54Justin Roczniak?

  West side between Yesler and Columbia.

• 15:56November Kelly?

  Yeah, I'm excited to be talking about this because on my other other podcast, No Gods, No Mess. I we did Hiram Gill, Mayor of Seattle. And I mentioned in passing that I was very struck by a line on his Wikipedia page, which just says, after the great fire of Seattle, reconfigured the city. So I'm excited to learn about the reconfiguration.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no, this is this was a major event, Seattle. This Seattle, this was like right at the precipice of Seattle becoming an actual city. We'll get into it. I don't want to I don't want to, you know, interrupt too long. We have to do the something else first, I think.

• 16:31Justin Roczniak?

  We have to do the goddamn news.

• 16:42November Kelly?

  Yeah, so um.

• 16:44Justin Roczniak?

  This has been a pretty crazy news item recently. Yeah.

• 16:47November Kelly?

  We have another reason to feel bad about the the Grenfell episode thumbnail besides the big vote labor sticker on there, which has aged just terribly.

• 16:58Justin Roczniak?

  Just very poorly. Yeah, I gotta leave it there as a historical monument to our hebrews.

• 17:03November Kelly?

  Well, that was the original plan with Grenfell as well. So yeah, Hong Kong appears to it. Maybe it's some kind of like former British colony kind of social contagion. I don't know, but Hong Kong has decided to outdo London by having a kind of mega Grenfell. Um, in Tyco in the new territories, where you had a bunch of apartment blocks, which like there's like nine of them built together and like four or five of them caught fire. And they have like the death toll is still climbing because as with Grenfell, you have a bunch of people who are just in the buildings dead that they haven't recovered yet and maybe just won't. But like it's minimum.

• 17:45Justin Roczniak?

  It was still burning for a couple of days.

• 17:47November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, this is really bad. They also had like a firefighter killed as well, which is like unusual even for these kind of like really terrible fires.

• 17:59Justin Roczniak?

  What seems to have happened as of this point is these buildings were under some kind of renovation. I'm not sure exactly what, but there were some kind of facade repairs being done. So they were covered in bamboo scaffolding, which in and of itself is okay. Right? But they had some kind of low quality nylon fishnets around. Yeah, yeah, that there's this this sort of netting around the the bamboo scaffolding was just fishnet.

• 18:32Liam McAnderson?

  Um, yeah.

• 18:33November Kelly?

  Like it should be fire resistant or sort of fire retardant. Whether or not it is, I mean, you can, you can kind of see.

• 18:44Justin Roczniak?

  Turned out not, but as well, they were also, um, when they were doing repairs around certain windows, you know, you want to board it up so you don't break the window. Well, rather than using boards, they used, um, some kind of expanded polystyrene for foam, you know, just styrofoam, right? That's pretty flammable as it turns out.

• 19:05November Kelly?

  Yeah. As, as we, as we kind of talked about on, on the grand file episode, the, that kind of like, um, like foam insulation can be, can be extremely flammable. There's also a political angle to this, right? And the, um, so bamboo scaffolding is like, it's fine. Uh, it, it is not a well-regulated industry. It's, it's quite a corrupt one in Hong Kong, but it's also one that only really persists in Hong Kong. Um, like.

• 19:34Justin Roczniak?

  My understanding is one of the contributing factors here is that, um, Hong Kong doesn't have a fire code. It has three fire codes. Because it's a special economic zone. So you can use the Chinese fire code. You can use the European fire code, or you can use NFPA, the American fire code. So obviously like.

• 19:56November Kelly?

  One country, three systems.

• 19:58Justin Roczniak?

  Your inspectors are definitely overloaded.

• 20:01November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But also there's, um, so like the supply of this bamboo scaffolding and, and the sort of like assembly and maintenance of it is the province of, um, like a handful of specialists, which leads to a kind of quite, uh, it's like monopsony, I think you would call it, right? Like it's quite a sort of cozy relationship. Um, but that's political too, in the sense that, um, mainland China uses like all steel scaffolding, right? Um, and there is a kind of push on behalf of, um, the sort of like Beijing allied politicians to, uh, modernize and to use like steel scaffolding. Um, con- Conversely, if you are a sort of like Hong Kong independence or Hong Kong nationalist

• 20:47November Kelly?

  sort of supporter, then this is a sort of like a Hong Kong tradition that should be preserved. And so there's a lot of incentive on the one hand to put the blame on the scaffolding. Equally, there's a lot of incentive to be like putting the blame on the scaffolding is Chinese propaganda. Right? So I think what we really needed was not just Grenfell and more buildings, but Grenfell and more buildings with a kind of really tense political sort of discord over it.

• 21:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, that's definitely like, and, and, and just from, I don't know, from where I'm standing, I'm kind of like, yeah, it's probably that, you know, polystyrene foam they were using to board up the windows. That was probably the, you know, the, the big thing here that caused like apartments to catch fire and stuff. But I don't know yet. We'll, we'll, we'll see what happens. How this all, you know, works out. I don't know. Maybe, maybe China finds an excuse to like, eat Hong Kong over this. I don't know.

• 21:45November Kelly?

  I mean, that, that's already happened. Basically is the thing like there are elections coming up, but they're, they're going to be like entirely controlled in that sense. Like anybody who is a, a big kind of democracy supporter is now in Britain, right? Like, or, you know, in Chinese prison. So that, that's not really the kind of thing that's going to be downstream of this. What's going to be downstream of this is like, it might fuck up the career of the current like chief executive. What is interesting is that unlike Grenfell, we had arrests very quickly. Yeah. And that is one kind of, I, I will frankly say superiority of, of the, the Chinese political

• 22:29November Kelly?

  system is, okay, we're still not going to do anything. And like all of the kind of corruption might stick around and the stuff will still happen, but you will get some scapegoats. Whereas in Britain, everybody is too important to scapegoats, apparently.

• 22:42Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. All these things, you know, they just happen. There's nothing we can do about it.

• 22:46November Kelly?

  Yeah. It's like, there'll be a fucking inquiry and like in 10 years' time, somebody who like died five years ago, might get a kind of like official frowny face.

• 22:55Liam McAnderson?

  Xbox. One Xbox. No games though.

• 22:58November Kelly?

  Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to 14 people who have been arrested, you know?

• 23:03Liam McAnderson?

  Victoria and Nova, can you do me a huge favor? Can you turn, can you kill your videos? Because I am, I am dying. Like, I'm crashing every minute, minute fifteen.

• 23:12November Kelly?

  But I don't look so good.

• 23:13Liam McAnderson?

  You look wonderful. I don't know if it's a video issue. I'm really sorry for interrupting you. Please go off.

• 23:17November Kelly?

  It's completely fine. I was, I was coming to the end of my point anyway, which is, shit's bad, but I do feel like when something like this happens and your name is on it, you probably should get arrested. And I don't say that in a like, you should get killed sort of way. But like, that's arguably, you know, something attendant to the seriousness of an investigation, you know?

• 23:37Liam McAnderson?

  I'll buy that.

• 23:38Justin Roczniak?

  I do think if a positive thing comes out of this, it's maybe, maybe Hong Kong can slim down to one fire code as opposed to three.

• 23:46November Kelly?

  That would be progress, yes.

• 23:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 23:49November Kelly?

  What a, what a colonial legacy we, the United Kingdom, have left there.

• 23:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. It's like, ah, we can just cause confusion and delay here.

• 23:58Liam McAnderson?

  Did you explain the three fire code things already? Cause I'm not familiar with that.

• 24:01November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Liam McAnderson?

  Sorry. I was, I was, I was dropping out and dropping again.

• 24:04Justin Roczniak?

  Different, different countries have different fire codes and that's okay. As Matty Clay has just said. You know?

• 24:12November Kelly?

  And Hong Kong is different countries in a very real sense.

• 24:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, because of just the legacy of colonialism, Hong Kong is, uh, you know, they, they, you can use the European fire code. You can use the Chinese fire code, right? You can use the American fire code even. I'm not quite certain how that got in there, but it did somehow. So if you are, you know, someone like a fire chief over there, of course, you're going to be completely overwhelmed because you got to know three.

• 24:44Liam McAnderson?

  Right, that sounds impossible, right?

• 24:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. I think it might not even be the European fire code. I think it's the British one, which is stricter and requires ludicrous amounts of fire extinguishers everywhere.

• 24:55November Kelly?

  I mean, also, also the fact that this happened in the new territories, right? Like, you're, you're not looking at the, you know, the waterfront burning down, right? You're looking at like a sort of subsidized government housing.

• 25:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 25:10November Kelly?

  Thing. There was like, especially like very elderly residents as well. Which is one of the reasons why I think the, the death toll is going to be so high.

• 25:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 25:19November Kelly?

  So, as ever, it is, it is like, there are structural reasons why the people who like, die in this sort of thing tend to be poorer and older.

• 25:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. So, yeah, I, the, the four, what, five towers got set on fire from one little fire. That's, there's a video of the original fire catching, actually. Just a little thing, goes up instantly. My god.

• 25:45November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's crazy. Like, once you, once you see anything like that, you do get why. Cause like, sometimes fire, fire brigades are kind of victims of their own success in fire prevention. Where it's like, where people aren't scared of fires, perhaps as much as they should be. And then, then you see like, how quickly an entire building can take light. And it's like, oh yeah, this, this is why this has been sort of like a key emergency service since Roman times, you know?

• 26:09Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. All right. We'll talk about fire brigades in history later.

• 26:13November Kelly?

  I'm good.

• 26:16November Kelly?

  All right, John, shift in tone?

• 26:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. In other news.

• 26:25November Kelly?

  Happy anniversary, Liam.

• 26:27Justin Roczniak?

  Happy anniversary to Liam and Corinne.

• 26:29Liam McAnderson?

  Thank you. Thank you. All right, moving swiftly on.

• 26:35November Kelly?

  Is that all you want? Or do you just like feel bad about the proximity there?

• 26:41November Kelly?

  Hundred and fifty people plus died. Happy anniversary, by the way.

• 26:45Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, happy anniversary. I kind of wanted to go first, but then I felt like I wanted to do even more.

• 26:49November Kelly?

  Then it's kind of worse, right? Because then it's like, happy anniversary, many happy returns, you know, infinite happy years together. Unlike about a hundred and fifty people.

• 27:02Liam McAnderson?

  Well, if you, she'll never listen to this, but I adore you sweetheart. So, uh, I, I, yeah. All right. Great.

• 27:08November Kelly?

  As, as, as my wife will, will vouch for never listening to your partner's podcast is by far the healthier decision.

• 27:14Liam McAnderson?

  She does technically listen to it when forced to, i.e. when she has to work the live shows.

• 27:19November Kelly?

  It's unethical to do that.

• 27:21Liam McAnderson?

  I, I was debating getting her earplugs as a yuck. Oh, Roz, I forgot to tell you, I got you a present for the live shows.

• 27:29Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 27:30Liam McAnderson?

  It's, do you want to know what it is? Or do you want me to?

• 27:32Justin Roczniak?

  Is it a 12 foot paint roller?

• 27:34Liam McAnderson?

  No, it's, it's, it's an 8.2 foot pointer, extendable.

• 27:38Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 27:40November Kelly?

  First live shows with a pointer that works.

• 27:42Justin Roczniak?

  But the pointers worked on the other live shows. I just, I just had to tape them together.

• 27:50November Kelly?

  It's like a fishing rod.

• 27:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 27:52Liam McAnderson?

  All right. Uh, we should talk about the live shows.

• 27:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that was the goddamn news. Speaking of the live shows.

• 27:58November Kelly?

  The live shows, we're not allowed to threaten you as much because we don't want to get the video.

• 28:03Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, YouTube doesn't like when we actively do death threats against the audience.

• 28:09November Kelly?

  Okay, I'm changing tack here.

• 28:11Justin Roczniak?

  Do that.

• 28:11November Kelly?

  Uh, I am imploring you, um, please come to the live shows.

• 28:17Justin Roczniak?

  Be seaching you.

• 28:18Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, you, you will be the sexiest listener and, uh,

• 28:22November Kelly?

  I think that probably might also get us.

• 28:24Justin Roczniak?

  Get us, we're, you're gonna get us age restricted for another reason. Yeah.

• 28:29Liam McAnderson?

  The funnest listener.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Oh heavens, please come to the live shows.

• 28:32November Kelly?

  We are going, we are going to maintain in both, on, on both ends, an appropriate listener, creator relationship with you. If you come to the live shows and also if you don't, but please come to the live shows. When are the live shows? I'm hearing you ask. December 14th and 15th. Where are the live shows? I hear you ask.

• 28:52Justin Roczniak?

  Shows are at the spaghetti warehouse.

• 28:55Liam McAnderson?

  You've got to start saying Union Transfer.

• 28:57Justin Roczniak?

  Called Union Transfer.

• 29:00November Kelly?

  What are the live shows about? That's for us to know and for you to find out.

• 29:04Liam McAnderson?

  That's right.

• 29:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 29:05November Kelly?

  Please, please come to the thing. Will I be able to buy merch at the live shows?

• 29:09Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, like you wouldn't believe, motherfucker.

• 29:12Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, amazing.

• 29:12November Kelly?

  We have so much merch, which is another reason why it's important for you to come to the live shows.

• 29:17Liam McAnderson?

  We will separate you from your money.

• 29:19Justin Roczniak?

  Podcast is made.

• 29:20Liam McAnderson?

  So well, I will say honestly, it is. But we have high vis, we have signs, we have beanies, we have a limited run of holiday themed crew decks.

• 29:33November Kelly?

  I'm so excited to get a care package of all of this stuff. Which you remember to send me. Yeah, like four to six months later.

• 29:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Liam McAnderson?

  Well, it'll be ready in time for next Christmas.

• 29:44Justin Roczniak?

  Isn't Gwen coming to the United States?

• 29:47November Kelly?

  Gwen is currently in the United States, so I'm sorry to say that you'll be missing my wife. Otherwise I would send you my wife to help.

• 29:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I was, I was about to say we could send some shit back with her, but I guess not.

• 29:58November Kelly?

  It wouldn't even be the first time that she's stood in for me at a live show. She, she played me at the opening of a Kill James Bond show once. So this may be more plausible. Yeah, no, it was, it was a good bit. Sadly, the live show, it will be Gwenless, but don't come, don't not come just on the basis of that.

• 30:18Liam McAnderson?

  Right. No, you should come to the live show.

• 30:20November Kelly?

  We will, we will do one in Europe. We will fucking do one in Europe. Okay. Stop yelling at us.

• 30:27Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, or Maine, or someone told us to come to Mexico, which brother, you tell me what town and we'll be there.

• 30:33November Kelly?

  I would love to go to Mexico.

• 30:34Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:36Justin Roczniak?

  Cuz so quarkos.

• 30:38Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we're gonna live and see you down there.

• 30:42November Kelly?

  We are going to get assassinated by the Mexican Navy for your listening pleasure. No, we, we did squash the beef.

• 30:48Justin Roczniak?

  Personally shot in the back of the head by Claudia Scheinbaum. Yeah.

• 30:54November Kelly?

  It's no more than we deserve.

• 30:55Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that's, that, that actually does track.

• 31:00Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 31:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 31:02November Kelly?

  Links in the description.

• 31:03Justin Roczniak?

  The link's in the description. I'm also reiterating my plea. You know, if you ever want November to come to America to do a show.

• 31:11November Kelly?

  Yes.

• 31:12Justin Roczniak?

  She needs an O1 visa, which is difficult to get. But one of the big parts of that is we need press. If you are a journalist, please write some articles about us.

• 31:22November Kelly?

  Nice ones, please.

• 31:23Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 31:24November Kelly?

  We will take bad ones too.

• 31:25Justin Roczniak?

  Do you work for, um, I don't know.

• 31:28Liam McAnderson?

  Accredited media agency.

• 31:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. Do you work for, um, uh, I can't even think of a.

• 31:35November Kelly?

  Our Zera. Do you work for the National? Do you work for Russia Today? Commerçant? Do you work for, uh, press TV?

• 31:47Justin Roczniak?

  Um, France 24.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  Does the epoch deutsches count?

• 31:56November Kelly?

  Yeah, if you, if you write for any of these, write about us, profile us, please. It helps.

• 32:01Justin Roczniak?

  We, we want to be featured in the Arlington Catholic Herald. Anyway.

• 32:06Liam McAnderson?

  Roz, you could probably just ask your mom and you would be featured at the Arlington Catholic Herald.

• 32:09Justin Roczniak?

  She's a Protestant.

• 32:11November Kelly?

  Oh, that's right. Yeah, we're gonna be in the Arlington Protestant Herald.

• 32:15Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no, we don't want that. No, no. Take that one back. You put that back in the box where it came from.

• 32:19Justin Roczniak?

  It would have to be the, uh, it would have to be the, uh, the newsletter for, um, ah, crap. What's the, the one at Lexington Presbyterian?

• 32:27Liam McAnderson?

  Right. That's not so bad.

• 32:28Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, yeah.

• 32:29November Kelly?

  Lexington Presbyterian Herald?

• 32:31Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know if they have their own, they got a newsletter. They must have a newsletter.

• 32:34Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, for some reason the newsletter is called Sexy, Sexy Lexi Prods.

• 32:38November Kelly?

  Yeah, but put us, put us, put us in your newspaper, put us in your newsletter, put us in your blog post, put us in your Substack about how your, your girlfriend cheated on you with RFK Junior.

• 32:47Liam McAnderson?

  Ah, you beat me to it, damn.

• 32:50Justin Roczniak?

  Put us in, we want to be featured in the Rockbridge County News Gazette.

• 32:56Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, hell yeah. Just us, we could do like a Ken Burns montage of pictures of us over, uh, uh, Jump Mountain Blues.

• 33:04November Kelly?

  I mean, here's the thing, right? If you, if you wanted us to be, uh, like profiled in the press, and if you want me to be profiled in the press specifically, all I have to do is do something really transsexual, like try to use the women's changing room at the hospital where I work. And the British press will write thousands of words about me. So.

• 33:22Justin Roczniak?

  What if you gave a bad essay a zero?

• 33:25November Kelly?

  Ooh, yeah, I might do that. I may, I might do that. Yeah.

• 33:29Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, infinite war, uh, just war on the University of Oklahoma.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, if I, if I go into that, then I'll definitely get a stage restricted again.

• 33:37Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I gotta get real clever now. Just a war on the University of Oklahoma.

• 33:45November Kelly?

  Just a peaceful transfer of power at the University of Oklahoma.

• 33:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 33:49Liam McAnderson?

  We hope they have a nice time.

• 33:50November Kelly?

  Yeah, we do.

• 33:51Justin Roczniak?

  No, no threats of violence here.

• 33:54Liam McAnderson?

  Could you say those words in that order?

• 33:56Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know.

• 33:57Liam McAnderson?

  For that.

• 33:58November Kelly?

  I think, fine, and if we're not fine, then we live and learn.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  Can I continue my, my winning streak?

• 34:04Justin Roczniak?

  Well, we don't, we don't learn because YouTube doesn't tell you why you are restricted.

• 34:09November Kelly?

  They should really do that.

• 34:11Liam McAnderson?

  YouTube is a vast and infinite monster that I do not understand.

• 34:15November Kelly?

  Maybe we need to get on like.

• 34:17Liam McAnderson?

  Hey, do you guys want to read the comments? I'm like, no Spotify, I don't. They're like, hey, do you want to read the comments? Hey, no Spotify, I don't.

• 34:22November Kelly?

  Maybe, maybe we should get on like fucking Vimeo or like Daily Motion.

• 34:27Justin Roczniak?

  We should get on, uh, we should get, we should get on Flub. It's all on Flub.

• 34:33November Kelly?

  It's literally on Flub.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  It's literally on Flub. Every episode in like a series of 275 consecutive minute and a half long TikToks.

• 34:40Liam McAnderson?

  Okay, so here's the thing, Victoria, you don't have access to, well, there's your problem inbox, but I sure do.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  No, I don't, I don't want that.

• 34:47November Kelly?

  The madness fire hose.

• 34:49Liam McAnderson?

  Have you seen the emails that are like, we could make your content into YouTube shorts and or TikToks because you're not getting enough.

• 34:56November Kelly?

  I, I, I don't check those like, why? I, I don't, I specifically don't remember the Patreon login, so I don't read the comments to make myself feel bad. When, when I want to make myself feel bad, three in the morning, I'm on the YouTube comments, sorting newest first, looking for the motherfucker who's like, who's this guy? And I'm like, then I switch accounts and I go, [bleep] that motherfucker right now. You have to believe that a bit.

• 35:23Justin Roczniak?

  Don't do that, don't do that, you know?

• 35:26November Kelly?

  Just cut all of that out, mostly.

• 35:27Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, just bleep, uh, bleep, well, I don't think motherfucker while we're here, but, uh, I do. I also sort newest and I'm just like, oh, my enemies list grows longer by the day. I see.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  I did short form video for an automotive publication for about three months. Went directly to a psych ward, resumed doing it for six months and then quit my career.

• 35:50November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, that sounds about right.

• 35:52Liam McAnderson?

  And well, there's your problem make work program.

• 35:55November Kelly?

  Yeah, I remember texting you in the psych ward, quite concerned and I, what I should have done really has been like, do you want to come on my fuck ass podcast?

• 36:03Speaker 03

  Your listeners are much nicer to me than the subscribers to a large automotive outlets Instagram videos.

• 36:11November Kelly?

  In fairness, being on Instagram is a sign of a decayed soul.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Being a car enthusiast on Instagram is like two strikes already.

• 36:21November Kelly?

  It's like, oh, I wish I could own that one.

• 36:24Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, boy. Look at this AI concept Maybach that should result in us declaring World War III against Germany.

• 36:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you know, one of these times we got a strike first.

• 36:37November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's crazy that Mercedes just made the Hitler car and just announced it with like the red banners and

• 36:45November Kelly?

  just Google like latest Mercedes concept, you'll find it, you know what I mean? Anyway, live shows.

• 36:50Justin Roczniak?

  Live shows, come to the live shows. Okay, well, those were the announcements. Announcements, announcements, announcements.

• 36:58November Kelly?

  I don't participate in this. I boycott this like the Soviets at the Olympics. All right, two hours in, we're ready to talk about what the fuck is a Seattle?

• 37:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's right. About an hour and 30 minutes of death threats cut out already.

• 37:12Liam McAnderson?

  We're really chewing through these, man.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, so to explain what the Seattle Fire is, we have to explain what Seattle is. This is a topographical map of what is now known as the city of Seattle.

• 37:26November Kelly?

  This is a heat map of molecules.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Actually, it does map fairly closely.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Transgender density.

• 37:36Justin Roczniak?

  It's a good thing y'all have the high ground, you know.

• 37:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, the civil conflict who come.

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Yes, it's a glacially carved fjord. We get, it's like one of the only parts of America where we have like honest to God fjords. And so it was, it was under about 3,000 feet of ice 15 to 20,000 years ago. You know, there's been humans here for like 4,000 years in the 1850s when like white people started showing up. There were at least 17 Duwamish settlements alone, just like around the people's house. So it's been like inhabited for ages. The original parties to come settle it show up in 1851 and they settle in what is now called Elkie Point in West Seattle, which is, you know.

• 38:22November Kelly?

  Oh, right. You can see it on the on the map, right on the bottom left.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:26November Kelly?

  Um. It's the big sort of protuberance out. Yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. So they set up there and they stay there for a winter and then they realize that, you know, the winter weather just sucks out there and the tides are really intense.

• 38:37November Kelly?

  Point in a fjord. Terrible idea.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. And they're like, this is not going to work. This is a terrible idea. Um, so they, Arthur Denny, who was the original settler, there's like a Denny Way in Seattle and a bunch of buildings named for him. He was like one of the six.

• 38:52Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, the guy who invented the Grand Slam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, the the concept of getting breakfast drunk off your ass at 3 a.m. That comes from him.

• 39:02Liam McAnderson?

  Wow. What a city.

• 39:06Justin Roczniak?

  This is the problem. You need the Norwegians for this type of terrain and they had, I have no idea what kind of white ethnics these were.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  I don't know. We do actually have an enormous, uh, like Scandinavian population here.

• 39:17Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Including within my own polycule.

• 39:19November Kelly?

  Pining for the fjords.

• 39:21Liam McAnderson?

  I do pine for the fjords.

• 39:23November Kelly?

  I realize, not not to make me sound like I'm better than you, but I realize I've never really thought about the the like individually ethnic comp like composition of my polycule. I haven't really like, I haven't, I I'm not making everybody like, you know, do the sort of callipers before I start dating them.

• 39:39Liam McAnderson?

  Terrific. Well done.

• 39:42Justin Roczniak?

  No, no Slavs in my polycule. Come on, man.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  It only comes up because my girlfriend really wants a Saab, you know?

• 39:50Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 39:52November Kelly?

  According to my, according to my heritage, I have the Saab Happler groups.

• 39:57Justin Roczniak?

  It's made.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Do you imagine that shit, but just for the kind of car you want? Like, that's actually how auto reviews work, because they're like, well, actually.

• 40:08November Kelly?

  Sponsored by Mercedes.

• 40:12Justin Roczniak?

  I gotta watch out for the German polycules.

• 40:15Liam McAnderson?

  You gotta watch out for the Germans. You could stop that sentence right there.

• 40:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 40:20Liam McAnderson?

  World War III, book it, folks.

• 40:22November Kelly?

  I don't know, German polycules. Married in Berlin.

• 40:26Justin Roczniak?

  Very orderly.

• 40:27November Kelly?

  On the other hand, do not ask the German polycule what they think about Palestine.

• 40:32Justin Roczniak?

  Don't ask them about what they think about the Polish polycule either.

• 40:37November Kelly?

  Don't talk to me about the Polish polycule. I.

• 40:42Liam McAnderson?

  You want to elaborate on that further?

• 40:44November Kelly?

  No, I don't.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  No, no one does, actually.

• 40:47November Kelly?

  Hey, remember that, remember those two weeks when I was learning Polish?

• 40:50Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, how, um, how?

• 40:51November Kelly?

  No, me either.

• 40:52Justin Roczniak?

  How?

• 40:53Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, dear.

• 40:53Justin Roczniak?

  Well.

• 40:56Justin Roczniak?

  They're still, they're still working on changing that light bulb.

• 41:00Liam McAnderson?

  Don't belittle your own people.

• 41:05Liam McAnderson?

  The little other people, that's the important bit of humanity. We're all on, we're on a level playing field of sucking our polycules. I don't know, I'm monogamous. I got nothing for this bit. I just got nothing. I'm just like, yeah, my wife's cute.

• 41:17November Kelly?

  You're, you're, you're in a monocle.

• 41:20Liam McAnderson?

  Ah, I wish I had a monocle. I would look tight in a monocle. That rule.

• 41:24Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  We gotta, that's gonna be your next gift for the next show.

• 41:27November Kelly?

  So, you gotta go to the German polycule for that.

• 41:29Liam McAnderson?

  I'm not going to any Germans. I don't like Germans. I don't trust Germans. I have made this very clear, abundantly clear. I know we have German listeners and fans to that. I say, uh, the nuke is coming.

• 41:43November Kelly?

  Doing, doing the live show in Germany, but it's just, we have a big banner behind us that says Morgantow Plan Now.

• 41:51Justin Roczniak?

  Well, there's your problem. March on Berlin.

• 41:55November Kelly?

  I mean, genuinely, I would love to do this and I would love to get a German guest for this. So, you know, shout out in the fucking email or whatever. I would love to do a bonus episode where the problem is Germany.

• 42:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 42:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that would be a good one.

• 42:07Liam McAnderson?

  I also look forward to the, the oft awaited bonus episode, uh, our dads, where it's just our dads roasting us. Uh, but I think Ross' dad would be too mean. I think my dad would just be incoherent. He'd be like, ah, my son is great. Now let me talk to you about Mao.

• 42:23Liam McAnderson?

  And then he would tell my mom that Mao had to break a few eggs. She'd call him a mass murderer. They'd just get in an argument again.

• 42:29November Kelly?

  I, I genuinely don't know what my dad thinks about Mao.

• 42:32Liam McAnderson?

  Ask him.

• 42:32November Kelly?

  Okay, sure.

• 42:35Liam McAnderson?

  Let me know. You were saying before I derailed and ruined everything.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, yeah, I think I was talking about my.

• 42:42November Kelly?

  Seattle, Denny's.

• 42:43Liam McAnderson?

  Nordstrom. I don't know. What else is there? The Kraken?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Seahawks. Hey, we had a, we've got a women's hockey team now. They just had the all time.

• 42:51Liam McAnderson?

  They're so good.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  They, they just set an all time attendance record for women's hockey in America at their first game.

• 42:58November Kelly?

  Wow.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Because this city is like 35% lesbians. It's incredible.

• 43:02November Kelly?

  I need to go to the.

• 43:04Liam McAnderson?

  Bring back the Sonics.

• 43:06November Kelly?

  I need, I need, I need to go to Philadelphia and I need to go to Seattle. These are my priorities.

• 43:12Liam McAnderson?

  I have a, uh, my future sister in law, it's from, uh, Whitby Island, Washington. So Claire, if you're listening, go crack it and hello.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  I would, I really, I do really need to go to Philly. That is actually true.

• 43:24Liam McAnderson?

  We would love to have you. We have a guest room.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Sweet. But yeah, we'll, we'll do that. Well, I'll record the next one live from your guest room. Anyway, yeah, Seattle is like full of fjords and lesbians, um, you know, so the, why is this, why is this important to know? So they, okay, yeah. All right. I remember you now. Arthur Denny, after inventing the grand slam and drunken breakfast at 3am, uh, sets up, uh, they, they, they set up their new encampment in the mid, what is now the middle of Seattle and what is called Pioneer Square. Like right there where all the fairies come out of, um, sort of at the foot of those hills. Now you'll notice that all of the land to like due south of that is very low on this topo map. It looks, it's like almost directly at sea level.

• 44:08Liam McAnderson?

  Uh oh.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  That is because that is, uh, the mouth of the Duamish, uh, Duamish River, um, which was just like low lying, you know, um, like tidal mud flat, basically. So that would all flood and or, you know, get filled with, uh, the, the incoming tide or whatever. Um, and it was pretty uncontrolled. Like it was very like, basically where the green ends in the current topographical map was like the actual, you know, sort of edge of where it was no longer just, uh, tidal mud flat. That was actually land.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  But because, you know, the city of Seattle is was glacially carved, all of the dirt in the area is what's known as unsorded glacial till, which is basically just frozen mud that was left behind when the glaciers retreated. So it makes it really easy to kind of shift all of the land masses around and play like city skylines on like free roam mode with the topography. So that was like the first 70 years of the city was just messing around with that. But that means is-

• 45:10November Kelly?

  Doing like city skylines topography stuff by hand, a bunch of guys with shovels?

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, that's the they got a little bit more advanced later. But yeah, pretty much. They were just like, yeah, we could just kind of like, this mud looks good. We can just add a little more mud if we need to. It's no, no big deal.

• 45:26Justin Roczniak?

  You know where this goes on the silt, sand and clay chart?

• 45:32Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I don't know. I'm not. I am not a loam expert.

• 45:35Justin Roczniak?

  You don't know about? Yeah, no, I never understood that chart either.

• 45:39November Kelly?

  As we've been clear on this podcast, we've spoken about before, we don't understand soil science, right?

• 45:45Justin Roczniak?

  No, it was that that was-

• 45:48Justin Roczniak?

  I I took that class two times and I got through it the second time with a D.

• 45:55November Kelly?

  You just submit a paper at the end that just says dirt.

• 46:02Liam McAnderson?

  D U R T.

• 46:04November Kelly?

  Listen, the Bible says-

• 46:06Justin Roczniak?

  The R is backwards.

• 46:07November Kelly?

  God created clay and loam. There's no such thing as sand.

• 46:12Justin Roczniak?

  God created the firmament, right?

• 46:17November Kelly?

  D U R T. Getting zero 25 for this.

• 46:19Liam McAnderson?

  A Q, a second Q, a third Q, a fourth Q, and the Batman symbol. And somehow Roz got an A minus in that class.

• 46:28Justin Roczniak?

  No, that was thermodynamics that I onyxed.

• 46:30November Kelly?

  I'm gonna go get myself the gigantic sack of Hershey's Lauren brought me back from America.

• 46:35Justin Roczniak?

  Thermodynamics is a class I got an inexplicably high grade in.

• 46:39Liam McAnderson?

  I mean, you are a smart guy. I'm not shocked by that.

• 46:43Justin Roczniak?

  No, there's like, you know, thermodynamics, you just need to know three things. You can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game.

• 46:51Liam McAnderson?

  The only way to win is to not play. I don't. Yeah. All right. Moving on.

• 46:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's how you win at thermodynamics. Never get, never be born.

• 47:02Liam McAnderson?

  That's how you win a life. It's like an escape room for your, for your soul.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Anyway, yeah, that, that area you circled down there where it's got like Harbor Island and all of Soto and both of our stadiums and stuff, that didn't exist. That was just like the mouth of the river.

• 47:17November Kelly?

  All right, Hershey's acquired. I'm gonna rustle this into the microphone and really enjoy it.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  So, so yeah, so this is, you know, see, so basically, you know, they, white people get here and they're like, all right, next slide, please.

• 47:30November Kelly?

  That was fucked up of them to say, but sure.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Holy shit, there are so many trees. There are, we should start cutting these down immediately. We can make so much money.

• 47:40November Kelly?

  It's free real estate. It's free planks. It's free, uh, like timber. Uh, we're inadvertently gonna name Skid Row that for skidding logs down it.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  Yep, this is, this is the original mill, uh, that was shipped. So there was, they sent a steam mill here via boat from New York, uh, to, to build on the waterfront here. And this is the original mill of Henry Yesler. Uh, this is the end of Skid Road. This later becomes Yesler Avenue, which if you've ever played Gran Turismo four and raced the Seattle Circuit, you know that road. Because it's the one where you like start cutting uphill right before you get to the cool jumps. Yeah, that's, that's Yesler. There, we've also got like a, um, really cool skyscraper there and you know, whatever. It's, that's, that's Seattle geography. So you can place this if you've ever been here.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  So anyway, because the city is like an entirely old growth forest that was, you know, well taken care of by the native people for, you know, thousands of years.

• 48:40November Kelly?

  Just dusting our hands and saying goodbye to all of that as it turns into planks.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Turns into planks immediately. Um, the city basically.

• 48:49Justin Roczniak?

  Spruce spine fur to me.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:52November Kelly?

  With this one weird trick, an entire old growth forest can become a bunch of matchsticks. You know, they used to cut down redwood trees for matchsticks specifically?

• 49:04Speaker 03

  I do, yeah.

• 49:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yes.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, well, it was.

• 49:08Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they used to, used to, you know, I saw it on Looney Tunes. They put the whole thing on a lathe and carved it down to one matchstick.

• 49:17November Kelly?

  All right, so I'm going through these, these, these chocolates here. I just have one quick question. To Americans in general, really, what the fuck is a Mr. Goodbar? Why does it have a title?

• 49:27Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, you ever heard of Dr. Pepper?

• 49:30November Kelly?

  I, I mean, I guess, but why this, why, why, why do you need your foodstuffs to think that they're better than me?

• 49:35Justin Roczniak?

  Is there a Mrs. Goodbar?

• 49:37Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, Mr. Peanut.

• 49:38November Kelly?

  I, I, I, when Woke 2 shows up.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  Is going out with the sexy green M and M.

• 49:43Liam McAnderson?

  Dr. Pip.

• 49:44November Kelly?

  When, when Woke 2 shows up, they're gonna have to rename this to Mix Goodbar.

• 49:50Justin Roczniak?

  The non-binary Goodbar.

• 49:53Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yes, the Envy Bar, a nuttier bar for nuttier times.

• 49:56November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 49:56Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 49:57November Kelly?

  I'm assuming kind of a Liam role of like derailing the podcast because that's what happens when you get a couple of drinks in me.

• 50:04Justin Roczniak?

  So, well, I'm, I'm.

• 50:06Liam McAnderson?

  I, I'm saluting. You can't see it because I had to turn my camera off for, uh, for, uh, bandwidth, but I am saluting.

• 50:11Justin Roczniak?

  The, uh, the, the, the, the Mr. The Mr. Goodbar will have to, uh, either change his, I don't know, should we, should we force Mr. Goodbar to change his pronouns? I don't think so.

• 50:22November Kelly?

  I think so. Well, I mean, half the reason.

• 50:24Liam McAnderson?

  Force that Mr. Goodbar, yeah.

• 50:28November Kelly?

  Half the reason I like Hershey's is that they've already got pronouns.

• 50:36Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. This is, this is, uh, this is an ethical question. I think that, um, we'll have to ask.

• 50:41Liam McAnderson?

  I think it's, it's ethical to force that Mr. Goodbar. That's what I'm asking.

• 50:45November Kelly?

  There's, there's, Americans, you fucking love discrimination so much that you've gerrymandered my bag of Hershey's miniatures here.

• 50:52Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, we're the, we're the, we're the country with the problem with titles. Yeah.

• 50:56November Kelly?

  This is, this is supposed to be.

• 50:59November Kelly?

  This is, this is supposed to be. This is supposed to be like regular Hershey's, whatever the fuck a crackle is. Hershey's special dark chocolate and Mr. Goodbar's. And I would say this thing is like solidly 95% Mr.'s Goodbar.

• 51:14Liam McAnderson?

  No, but that is not a murderer's row of Hershey chocolate. I will, I will send a care package. I am from central Pennsylvania. I will get you the good shit.

• 51:23November Kelly?

  Okay, yeah, please.

• 51:24Justin Roczniak?

  You go directly to Hershey Park to get like the good chocolate.

• 51:28Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, you go to Hershey World, dude.

• 51:29Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 51:30Liam McAnderson?

  Have you ever been to Hershey World?

• 51:31November Kelly?

  Let me into your country.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  Do you love the idea of going to the supermarket and getting like this sea listers bag of Hershey's?

• 51:38Liam McAnderson?

  That's what it feels like.

• 51:40November Kelly?

  Well, I, listen, there were like two crackles, whatever the fuck that is in here. And then, and then it's like 95% Mr. Goodbar. And then like-

• 51:48Speaker 03

  Here's what's left at the bottom of the bowl after Halloween when all the kids pick through to get the good shit out.

• 51:53Liam McAnderson?

  No, but when we, when you, if and when you come to the United States, I will take you to Chocolate World.

• 51:57Justin Roczniak?

  Oh yeah, we should all go to Hershey Park. Oh my God, that'd be so fun.

• 52:00Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we can put that on the corporate card.

• 52:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 52:07Liam McAnderson?

  Right, yes.

• 52:08November Kelly?

  All right, cutting down all the trees in Seattle.

• 52:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:11Justin Roczniak?

  For one toothpick.

• 52:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Basically, the, the, immediately Seattle's entire purpose as a city is it's a frontier town that cuts down trees to ship lumber to California. Although it does, there are ships that send lumber as far afield as Alaska and Hawaii and even Australia.

• 52:29November Kelly?

  Doing the Monty Python lumberjack song joke for this because, you know, Seattle as it became.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  What?

• 52:36November Kelly?

  Never mind.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Oh God, is it that? Oh, no, I've blocked that from memory. I'm sorry. It, it took me a minute to realize what you're talking about. That's a British thing. That's, we don't, I don't fuck with that here.

• 52:45November Kelly?

  What if her beloved comedy was like transphobic, you know?

• 52:48Speaker 03

  Every single time somebody's like, oh, I remember this beloved British media property. You should check it out. And I watch it, it takes me 45 seconds to hit the most offensive transphobic joke I've ever seen in my life. It's like the only, the only American who ever got close is Matt Groening. And it still took him like three seasons to get to a point where he was comfortable working them in in the writers' room.

• 53:09November Kelly?

  That's right.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  Whereas like every single British thing, it's like, hey, what are you doing today? I'm out of ideas. What about, what if women were actually guys?

• 53:19November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm from, I'm from hell. I'm from Waterloo where the vampires hang out.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  When I, when I came to visit you this summer and I, that we, we land in, my wife and I land in Glasgow and we have to, sitting on the plane for a while, I gotta go to the bathroom. The first thing that struck me about the country, even before I noticed how bad the airport was, was that every single restroom is signed with females. And I was like, so much just made sense.

• 53:45Justin Roczniak?

  Hold on, hold on, we gotta compare notes here. The Glasgow Airport versus the Edinburgh Airport, which is where I came in. Edinburgh, it looked like the Top Gear Technology Center. It was just like a, like a shed.

• 54:00November Kelly?

  They kind of both are.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  But Glasgow Airport just kind of felt like it was a, like it reminded me a lot of like, like the shitty unremodeled parts of O'Hare, where it's like, it's like, wow, this was a nice airport in like 1963. Except they didn't build more or make any part of it nicer. The whole thing just looked like 1963.

• 54:23November Kelly?

  Well, we're bringing the social attitudes back too.

• 54:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, Edinburgh was like, nah, this is just a shed. I was like, the thing that really struck me is like the customs area was like, gee, I could just probably walk around this, you know?

• 54:37November Kelly?

  Oh yeah, well, like we, we kind of stopped bothering to enforce custom stuff. Once we were in the EU and now we've left, we can't afford to start, so.

• 54:46Liam McAnderson?

  So we're just in limbo. I will be right back. Keep going.

• 54:50Justin Roczniak?

  All right. Now, the thing that, thing that strikes me here, sending lumber to Alaska, you know, that, that feels a bit like sending, you know, coals to Newcastle, you know?

• 55:00November Kelly?

  Yeah, but you don't have the, you don't have the mill and then they'd have to send the mill.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:04Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, everyone's trying to mine gold up there when there's all these trees around, you know?

• 55:08Speaker 03

  Well, they weren't doing that yet. It was, that comes later. That's another big part of Seattle's history, which we do, you know, you're, you're ruining the episode. I gotta get to that.

• 55:17Justin Roczniak?

  Ah shit, okay.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  Anyway, so they, they, they make a lot of logs. That's like the history of Seattle is they get, white people get here, they're like, damn, look at all these trees. Let's cut them all down. And they start doing that and Seattle becomes a timber city. So next slide, please.

• 55:31November Kelly?

  I like these woodcuts. These are very pleasing, even though these came out of like an old growth tree.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, this is actually from Harper's Magazine in 1870. And this is what Seattle looked like in September of that year.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  Now you'll notice that these houses are kind of like, they go up the hill a lot. And then there's even more trees behind it and it's even steeper. If you've ever walked around the city of Seattle, it's very, very hilly. And you can kind of, you know, if you look at that topography map, it had a few slides that you can tell like it's, it's because it was, you know, glacially carved, just sort of like a big mess of hills.

• 56:08November Kelly?

  Is this why you kept saying Glasgow reminded you of, of Seattle? Is that it's hilly, cold, wet and full of polycules?

• 56:15Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, no, that, that is actually entirely it.

• 56:20Speaker 03

  Also, yeah, I don't know. Everybody was like, it was kind of nice. I really loved Glasgow, except for the airport.

• 56:24November Kelly?

  It's, it's a good city with a weird airport. Yes.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I mean, like, no, like me, me saying I, me ever comparing anything to Seattle is very high praise. I do, I do love it here. But yeah, Glasgow did kind of remind me a little bit of it. And a lot of it is because, yeah, it's incredibly steep everywhere all the time.

• 56:41Justin Roczniak?

  I liked the weird mall.

• 56:43November Kelly?

  Oh, there's an Enoch Center. Yes.

• 56:45Justin Roczniak?

  The St. Enoch Center.

• 56:47November Kelly?

  What if we built a gigantic, we didn't know. What if we just built a gigantic glass pyramid?

• 56:53Justin Roczniak?

  That you have to drive through to get into.

• 56:58November Kelly?

  It's a, it's a good mall and they're demolishing it any second now.

• 57:01Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, God, can't have anything.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Well, in Seattle, because, you know, because they're just sending out timber, you know, you want to be as close to the water as possible so you can just float the logs. So they just started building the city directly into kind of like tidal flats.

• 57:15Justin Roczniak?

  Right.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  And so, you know, they, you can kind of see like here, there's got like stuff on piles right, right? Basically built on the water.

• 57:21November Kelly?

  My empire of mud, just kind of doing like mud Venice.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and the tides were really big. So because the Puget Sound is part of the ocean. So like, it would, it would flood all the streets, you know, that were kind of like at this original part of the city, like at water level, built into the mud flats. And, you know, in this era of extremely early plumbing, they basically just ran outhouses downhill via wood pipes into the, into Elliott Bay. And then, you know, they would just dump the shit and piss into the water. And then the tide would come in and flood the muddy, the muddy streets with shit and piss.

• 58:01November Kelly?

  Yeah, white people have showed up to bring new civilization in the form of cutting down your entire forest and filling the sound with piss.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:12November Kelly?

  And shit.

• 58:14Justin Roczniak?

  Of course, log rolling.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's not really relevant to the episode, but I did, I was curious. And so I was doing the research for this episode. It took like, one year of being chartered as a city for white people to be like, okay, we're going to kick out all of the native people who live in the city limits.

• 58:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that tracks. Yeah, that sounds about right.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, they ended up having to recharter the city again for some weird reason. And they, they tried again. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad because it was like the first thing they did. The streets are still full of shit and piss, which seems like it should have been a more urgent concern. I think it was still like during the Civil War. And they're like, no, we gotta, let's get so fucking racist with it.

• 58:51November Kelly?

  Yeah, your, your sort of first concern, the thing that's more sort of repulsive to you than the shit and piss.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  And this was one thing, and this is, this is the other thing that's so ironic about Seattle is its name is taken from one of the chiefs of the area that was like friendly with like white settlers. And they were taking, I believe this was, it was like basically concurrent. The city took the name of the chief and then also was like, we're also going to kick out everybody who lives here already.

• 59:15November Kelly?

  It's a very American process.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's bleak. And then, and then of course, you know, anyway, next slide, please. This is, this is what is basically now First Avenue in 1878. So this is eight years after the, the Harpers would cut. And as you can tell, like they've begun to, you know, regrade the city a bit. The buildings are all kind of lifted on stilts. The road surfaces and the sidewalks are all elevated to get them out of the mud flats.

• 59:46Speaker 03

  There is, you know, like, and they do this for a lot of like low lying stuff down by where the mill is. So they keep kind of the same topography in terms of like, the ground is still below and muddy, but the people are no longer walking through shit and piss to get to their, you know, shoe store or whatever.

• 1:00:02November Kelly?

  Just stand on this kind of precarious pile that's like balanced in the mud.

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the other thing too, that's worth noting is because ba- trees are everywhere and the city is founded around a mill. Timber is free. So the road surface, the sidewalks, the road supports, all of the buildings, all of the framing, everything in this picture is made out of wood.

• 1:00:27November Kelly?

  Wood.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  There's like three entire-

• 1:00:29November Kelly?

  What's the title of this episode again?

• 1:00:31Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, The Great Seattle Nothing Happened of 1889.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34November Kelly?

  Yes.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  The Great Seattle Polycule of 1889.

• 1:00:38Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, God.

• 1:00:40Speaker 03

  There's like three brick buildings in the whole city. There's not, it's, you know, we, we basically, it's, it's, it's-

• 1:00:48November Kelly?

  You gotta get the bricks up there for one thing. And why would you do that when a wood building is-

• 1:00:53Liam McAnderson?

  So much wood.

• 1:00:53November Kelly?

  Fine and also insanely cheaper.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. And doesn't need to be transported. And there's no masons in the city. Everybody's like a woodworker or carpenter. Cause it's like, you know, that's why you'd come there. Cause again, you know, next slide please. Um, so this is Seattle, June 5th, 1889. Uh, a picture of a block that is going to become important in one day.

• 1:01:16November Kelly?

  I like, yeah.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  You know, so the city-

• 1:01:18November Kelly?

  I like this picture.

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  The city is getting more, yeah, it's-

• 1:01:21Justin Roczniak?

  There's so many damn telegraph wires everywhere.

• 1:01:24November Kelly?

  This, this was the posting of its day, you know, we should have, your internet should come to you through like a wire arrangement this obvious and striking, you know?

• 1:01:34Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  We still have, so we, we still have trolley buses here. And so there are some intersections where you get to see all the wires up above and it does fill me with that kind of like childlike wonder.

• 1:01:42November Kelly?

  Yeah, I, I like, I like this though. It can, it contains the sense of busyness, you know?

• 1:01:47Justin Roczniak?

  Telegraph pole with like 45 horizontal doohickeys and a million wires on it.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, you know, the city is developing into something a little bit more- Like a city, you know, uh, it's, I think at this point, eighteen eighty-nine, it's got like thirty-ish thousand people living there. They're, they're estimating. But you know, it's still like dwarfed by like SF, you know, it's, it's not quite a frontier town anymore, but it's also not really a huge, like a real city. And you know, this, because it had kind of developed so slowly and so sort of like built on top of each other. Uh, you know, they, they're lacking a lot of stuff. You would hope a city in the late eighteen eighties would, you know, have at this point. Notably, uh, like a centralized water system.

• 1:02:33November Kelly?

  Just go down to the mud plants of the bucket and grab yourself some good old American mud.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  Well, that's kind of what they, I mean, that's saltwater, but there was like other like tributaries they were kind of pulling from, and there's like some springs nearby. And so they've got like six different sources for water, um, and some like water towers, uh, like up way uphill. The, and they're, all of these water sources are run through hand hewn hollowed logs for pipes.

• 1:03:00November Kelly?

  Yes.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  I found sources that said that there were thousands of feet of these.

• 1:03:05November Kelly?

  Wooden plumbing.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Wooden plumbing.

• 1:03:09Justin Roczniak?

  Well, no, this is, this is a bragging thing. Hold on. I gotta figure out when the last wooden pipe was taken out of service here.

• 1:03:16November Kelly?

  While, while you do that, I've just completed.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  But I think it was probably shortly after June 5th, eighteen eighty-nine.

• 1:03:24November Kelly?

  While, while you're working that one out, I've completed my, my Hershey's miniatures audit, and let me tell you, the results are atrocious.

• 1:03:32November Kelly?

  Regular, regular Hershey's, we got eight, uh, dark Hershey's, we got eighteen, Mr. Goodbar, we got twenty-four. And then a single crackle.

• 1:03:44Liam McAnderson?

  You got absolutely hosed.

• 1:03:46November Kelly?

  I have been generationally shafted. My ancestors are feeling this one.

• 1:03:53Justin Roczniak?

  Okay, so we don't know.

• 1:03:54November Kelly?

  And the crackle's like the only one that seems good.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57November Kelly?

  I'm not sure. I like the regular Hershey's, but like still.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:04:00Justin Roczniak?

  It appears that we don't know if any wooden service pipes are still in service, but uh, one was dug up in 2017.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Seattle moment. Yeah.

• 1:04:14November Kelly?

  Wood supremacy.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  Well, it was just kind of like, you know, it's there and you know, I guess we should plum stuff and it, none of this, like Seattle was not ever intended to become a city. They were just like, oh, it's a frontier town, you know, but I think, I think it was like, I'm gonna get the dates wrong because I didn't write all of this down first, but you know, for, for most of the 1870s and going into the 1880s, the Seattle population was like 10 or 12 men to every one woman. Like it was just dudes cutting down trees.

• 1:04:45November Kelly?

  Skies being dudes.

• 1:04:46Justin Roczniak?

  Some people, some people are gonna have to transition.

• 1:04:51November Kelly?

  This is why they invented it then.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  One of, one of Seattle's biggest early businesses next to logging was like running brothels. Because there was such a shortage of women. Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, it was, you know, it was a good crossover. It was very, everybody was like, damn, there's no ladies here and they hadn't, they hadn't figured out how to distill the estrogen out of horse piss yet, so.

• 1:05:17November Kelly?

  Thank you to whatever horse piss scientist or fetishist or both, uh, enabled the creation of the modern tea girl.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  That was like ancient Greeks. I'm taking credit for that one. That's us.

• 1:05:28November Kelly?

  Thank, thank you ancient Greek tea girls for inventing modern tea girls.

• 1:05:34Speaker 03

  Um, anyway, so you know, hand heeded.

• 1:05:36November Kelly?

  Greatness consists in planting a tree whose shade you will never live to sit under or something.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  They, they would be so proud of like the messy ass gay lesbian drama we've got going on in the city.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  Like that, that is what they, they suffered and died for.

• 1:05:51November Kelly?

  Whenever like politicians are like, oh, we're like the ancient Romans or the ancient Greeks. It's like, no bullshit. We're like the ancient Romans or ancient Greeks.

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, at some point I was, I don't know, I was thinking about, I turned 30 recently, which means that my mortality feels so real.

• 1:06:09November Kelly?

  Oh, trust me, we're waiting till you're staring down the barrel of 35.

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13November Kelly?

  Yep. And I'm hearing a lot of hollow laughter from our own comment section, so.

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, I know that I'm not like, you know, that old, but also like, I finally get to look back at my twenties and say like, those were a thing that happened. Nothing else is being written to the book of my twenties.

• 1:06:28November Kelly?

  As, as a trans woman, like hitting your 30s or, well, your mid 30s is like, oh shit, I get to be one of the red dots on the plane that wins arguments.

• 1:06:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I like, I'm looking back and I'm like, Jesus, I, I feel like I've, you know, I used to read like stories about like, you know, queer life in like the 60s or 70s or whatever. And I was like, this seems wild. Those people had like crazy lovers and they were like bouncing around the country all the time and they like, they had got laid constantly and like, did like all of this crazy shit, right? And had completely unconventional careers and existed basically outside of all of like, what felt like proper society. And then I look back at my twenties, like, oh shit, cool. That one, that worked out better than it, I thought it was gonna.

• 1:07:10Justin Roczniak?

  I like being in my 30s better than being in my 20s. I am gonna, I'm just gonna say that.

• 1:07:17November Kelly?

  And I, I, I hope you treat this in the kind of spirit of admiration in which it's, it's sort of conveyed. You have old man spirit.

• 1:07:23Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Ross, you were born 65 years old.

• 1:07:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, that is accurate. Yeah.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  Came out of the womb with like a model train in one hand.

• 1:07:35Liam McAnderson?

  And a beer in the other.

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  A cup of decaf coffee on the other.

• 1:07:41Justin Roczniak?

  No, no, yeah, exactly. Give me half caf, not decaf. I'm not.

• 1:07:46November Kelly?

  That's his first one.

• 1:07:56Liam McAnderson?

  Just vibrating off the ceiling.

• 1:08:00November Kelly?

  You know, some people say that you shouldn't feed a newborn baby espresso.

• 1:08:04Liam McAnderson?

  Some people are cowards.

• 1:08:05Justin Roczniak?

  Those people are not Italians.

• 1:08:09Liam McAnderson?

  Ross, you are 0% Italian.

• 1:08:11Justin Roczniak?

  I'm 0% Italian, but I enjoy going there.

• 1:08:14November Kelly?

  I hate that the federal government keeps making us put what percent Italian we are in the podcast.

• 1:08:21Liam McAnderson?

  It's like a, like a Carlat Monrodi label in here. Yeah.

• 1:08:26November Kelly?

  I don't know how much like Moretti I have to drink to get my numbers up.

• 1:08:30Liam McAnderson?

  Quite a bit. Start chugging, girlfriend.

• 1:08:32November Kelly?

  I got 5% other Western European, so plausibly there's Italian in there.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  I, yeah.

• 1:08:40November Kelly?

  95% British and Irish. We, I am of the people who heard that in it like, you know, who survived like famines and revolutions and, and like restorations and wars and were told that an entire new world had opened up and went, nah, I'm gonna stay.

• 1:09:02Liam McAnderson?

  I'm gonna vomit.

• 1:09:06November Kelly?

  I have, I have the complete opposite of a spirit of adventure in my heredity. Just like, no, I like it here or I don't, but I'm not gonna get in a boat.

• 1:09:18Speaker 03

  I think that's a big one. No, I don't think I've ever seen like what I would describe as like joy at waking up in like the UK from British people.

• 1:09:27November Kelly?

  God, can you imagine?

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  It seems like, it seems like every single person in the entirety of the British Isles like wakes up and they're like, oh, fuck. Every day.

• 1:09:37November Kelly?

  Yeah. And, and, and I, I'm, I'm the descendant of hundreds of years of people continuing to do that long enough to have children.

• 1:09:50Justin Roczniak?

  Damn, the sun's not gonna come up for another five hours.

• 1:09:57Justin Roczniak?

  It's gonna be there for 25 minutes.

• 1:10:01November Kelly?

  Still better than going to America.

• 1:10:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the thing about the thing about Americans is like they keep they're like the Northern Pacific Railroad that they just have to keep moving west until they finally get salt water and then be like, well, I'm still me. I guess I gotta deal with my shit now.

• 1:10:15November Kelly?

  Is it more inspirational if I become an American at this point? And I like go to America and I'm the first in like hundreds of years of people who is like, you actually fuck this country like it took this long for one of us to cotton on that it shit is gonna stay shit.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  You don't wanna come here now.

• 1:10:32November Kelly?

  Yeah, I know. I don't wanna come in now, but like once, once the sort of peaceful transfer of power happens.

• 1:10:37Liam McAnderson?

  Surely, which it surely will.

• 1:10:39Justin Roczniak?

  You could come to America, you could build a new life, you could build a business, you could become, you could become the first trans woman in America.

• 1:10:47Liam McAnderson?

  To start a podcast.

• 1:10:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49November Kelly?

  But the thing is, I, I, I managed to like start a new life and a business with Americans without ever leaving home, which is.

• 1:10:57Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good point, yeah.

• 1:10:59Liam McAnderson?

  A fuck way of doing it. Run, yeah.

• 1:11:01November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:01Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04November Kelly?

  All right, so about this, about this wooden plumbing.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yes, the wooden plumbing. I didn't even get to the good part yet, which is that there are every single water source is privately owned. And so there's like six different companies.

• 1:11:19Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, good. It's like municipal railways. Awesome.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:11:22Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like six different companies all competing with one another to be the source of water for your building. Ish. I mean, I'm oversimplifying for humor, but yeah, you get the idea.

• 1:11:34Justin Roczniak?

  It's. Entirely like parallel networks of water pipes and all that sort of shit.

• 1:11:40Speaker 03

  Also, like, it's not like a super profitable thing to like install fire hydrants. They don't really start doing that until like the late 1880s. And then they like put up like five, right? Like they don't, there's nowhere near the density you would want for a bill for a city made entirely out of timber.

• 1:11:54November Kelly?

  Well, you get a fire hydrant opposite the house that like is too rich to afford burning down, you know?

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:00Justin Roczniak?

  But then you also have like the issue that, you know, that's a high pressure system and that's hard to do with wooden pipes.

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Well, so, so eighteen, in 1889, there was actually a ballot issue to municipalize all of the water system, bring it under, you know, central governmental control and unify it. But before they could get to the election, next slide, please.

• 1:12:21Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  At 2:15 PM on June 6th, 1889.

• 1:12:27Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, we got it real fucking quick, huh?

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  In the basement of a shop.

• 1:12:30November Kelly?

  Yeah, why do you think I've been doing so many bits about how many fucking Mr. Goodbars I have?

• 1:12:34Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Speaker 03

  In the basement of a shop on the corner, what is now Madison and First, John Back is working with a hot glue pot. This exact hot glue pot, actually.

• 1:12:44November Kelly?

  Oh, they saved the glue pot, that's cool.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  Is the property of the Museum of History and Industry, Lake Union. You go visit the glue pot.

• 1:12:52November Kelly?

  Save this glue pot, it's gonna be historic.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  John Back is working with this exact hot glue pot in a room that is, whose floor is covered in turpentine soaked wood chips.

• 1:13:05Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, good.

• 1:13:06November Kelly?

  Yes, that's just how I like to work.

• 1:13:09Speaker 03

  And the glue pot gets hot, so somebody covers it up, a wooden plank, because it's around, there's wood everywhere.

• 1:13:16November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  And then the wood spontaneously ignites because the pot got too hot. And so somebody else gets the idea like, okay, let's throw cold water on this. And the glue fire scatters all over the room and ignites all of the turpentine soaked wood chips on the floor.

• 1:13:29November Kelly?

  Well, it's gone poorly.

• 1:13:31Speaker 03

  June 6th, 1889, suddenly becomes a lot more important of a day.

• 1:13:34November Kelly?

  Would you believe that the corner of First and Madison is now a coffee shop? A likely thing to exist in Seattle, Washington.

• 1:13:40Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 1:13:41Liam McAnderson?

  Wow, yeah, come cracking.

• 1:13:43November Kelly?

  Shout out to, I guess, Storyville Coffee, a corner of First and Madison.

• 1:13:48Liam McAnderson?

  Fuck you and your third wave bullshit.

• 1:13:52November Kelly?

  Pick a tendency and stick with it.

• 1:13:57Liam McAnderson?

  I have no idea about anything about that coffee shop, so, but I assume they're third wave nonsense.

• 1:14:02November Kelly?

  I'm looking through their windows right now.

• 1:14:05Liam McAnderson?

  I'm in your wallet!

• 1:14:08November Kelly?

  Again, the future is weird. I have started, I've started a podcast, started a business with like Americans on the internet. And also I'm doxing a coffee shop on the internet. There's a guy, there's a guy drinking and driving in the street view on this.

• 1:14:28November Kelly?

  He's got a bottle up to his face and they've pixelated his face and the bottle. It might just be a water bottle, but I still.

• 1:14:34Justin Roczniak?

  Damn, I wanted to know what he was drinking.

• 1:14:36November Kelly?

  I still want to believe.

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  Raspberry absolute.

• 1:14:41November Kelly?

  Oh, no.

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  That man actually will not be a man much longer.

• 1:14:44November Kelly?

  I taste it every time you mention it.

• 1:14:48Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah, I'm getting there.

• 1:14:50November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:53Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53November Kelly?

  So anyway, the floor full of turpentine and glue.

• 1:14:56Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, so a whole citywide game of the floor is lava. Yes.

• 1:15:00Speaker 03

  But you know, you I've got I've got the if you're curious, I've got an interview with John Back directly from the Seattle Post Intelligence, sir. If you'd like his direct thoughts on the matter.

• 1:15:09November Kelly?

  Absolutely.

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  It's 1880s newspaper interview. So you don't get your hopes up too high. Quote, I cut some balls of glue and put them in the glue pot on the stove. I put I put in some shaving where there was little fire and then went to work about 25 feet away near the front door. After a while, somebody said, look at the glue. Another fellow, a Finlander from New York. This is pointed out in the newspaper story. I told you.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  I told you everybody here is like, we got a ton of Nordic people. It's super cool.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  Then took a piece of board and laid it on to smother the glue, but the board caught fire. Then I ran and took a pot of water to smother the fire and poured it all over the pot of glue, which was blazing up high. When I threw the water on, the glue flew all over the shop into the shavings and everything take fire.

• 1:15:52November Kelly?

  It was all it was all the Fin's fault.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:55Justin Roczniak?

  Can't believe a Finlander would do this.

• 1:15:57November Kelly?

  You have to know is it was it was this one fucking Helsinki.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  He did. I was curious. He did actually. He just disappeared from records. I thought he left the city.

• 1:16:05Liam McAnderson?

  Dastardly.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  I guess he kind of felt bad for reasons that will become obvious shortly.

• 1:16:09November Kelly?

  Interviewed by name as starting the subject of, well, there's your problem episode. It's not looking good for you.

• 1:16:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  It's like, oh. Hi, Bert.

• 1:16:19Justin Roczniak?

  Was that Bert?

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  Bert. It was his birthday this weekend.

• 1:16:21Liam McAnderson?

  Birthday.

• 1:16:22November Kelly?

  His birthday.

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  Everybody sang him a song and we got him some trudus and he got a catnip banana. Don't rub your face in the microphone, dude.

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  All right, next slide, please.

• 1:16:35Justin Roczniak?

  The Finn returned to his natural habitat, the cold forest.

• 1:16:39Liam McAnderson?

  Soviet.

• 1:16:41November Kelly?

  Yeah, the thing is, he had a sort of miss a miswiring of the Scandinavian brain thing where there's a switch in your head that makes you try and kill as many Russians as possible. In this case, it's like, uh, makes you try and kill as many Seattleites as possible.

• 1:16:55Speaker 03

  Well, he he could have. No, he just had a really bad. He was like, I gotta destroy every timber building I see.

• 1:17:01November Kelly?

  Geographically closest city I'm into Russia needs to be destroyed right now.

• 1:17:08Speaker 03

  So, so the fire starts, it takes, so Seattle only has a volunteer fire department, right? It's kind of like a hole over from the pioneer days where like, well, we don't really need like an actual, like, we don't really got to pay for firefighters.

• 1:17:20November Kelly?

  As you're, as you're growing into a, into a city, it's also a fun patrician thing you can do, right? Like being in the night watch, like in that Rembrandt paintings to be like, yeah, in the volunteer fire department.

• 1:17:30Justin Roczniak?

  It depends on the fire department. 19th century firefighting is interesting. I don't know about Seattle. I do know about Philadelphia where it's essentially just ethnic gangs.

• 1:17:42November Kelly?

  Oh shit.

• 1:17:43Justin Roczniak?

  Who hated each other.

• 1:17:44November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:47November Kelly?

  Finnish fire department.

• 1:17:49Justin Roczniak?

  No, you would have like multiple fire companies show up and the first thing they would do was vandalize each other's equipment.

• 1:17:59November Kelly?

  Bring that back. We can bring this back. We can restore American greatness, which is taking a halogen tool to the Serbian fire department.

• 1:18:12Justin Roczniak?

  No Bosnian, no Bosniak is going to extinguish this fire.

• 1:18:18November Kelly?

  Hey, Justin, Justin.

• 1:18:19Liam McAnderson?

  You've never even like conceived to be possible before.

• 1:18:22November Kelly?

  Justin, have you ever thought about what it would be like if you were from, from Herzegovina?

• 1:18:27Liam McAnderson?

  Would you like to?

• 1:18:28November Kelly?

  Cause, cause.

• 1:18:29Justin Roczniak?

  Say that again.

• 1:18:30November Kelly?

  Cause you would, cause you would be Justin Bosniak.

• 1:18:33Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, God.

• 1:18:43Justin Roczniak?

  God damn it.

• 1:18:44November Kelly?

  I gotta have about two drinks before recording more often.

• 1:18:49Liam McAnderson?

  Like about till.

• 1:18:51November Kelly?

  I mean, okay, I, I should have two drinks before recording more often.

• 1:18:56Liam McAnderson?

  I approve.

• 1:18:57Justin Roczniak?

  Can't believe these Croats are trying to.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Gin and tonics on the work card?

• 1:19:00November Kelly?

  Yeah. I mean, shit, man.

• 1:19:01Liam McAnderson?

  I can fucking anything on the work card.

• 1:19:03November Kelly?

  I, so the place where I had the gin and tonics, right? I, I was on my second gin and tonic when I turned to look at the wall behind me because, uh, someone I was with pointed it out. I was covered in tin types of like old police officers. So I think I may have gotten tipsy in a cop bar.

• 1:19:20Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 1:19:23Justin Roczniak?

  It happens. Tops go to lots of bars.

• 1:19:25Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we've done it.

• 1:19:25November Kelly?

  That's true.

• 1:19:26Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. I'm not proud of it.

• 1:19:27Justin Roczniak?

  But they're not as bad as those dirty Serbs.

• 1:19:31Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, oh, these YouTube comments are not gonna be kind.

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  That was in timestamps.

• 1:19:39November Kelly?

  We're gonna lose Liv Agar.

• 1:19:42November Kelly?

  Wait, isn't she? I don't remember. I don't remember Liv Agar's ethnicity. Frankly, it'd be weird if I could.

• 1:19:48Justin Roczniak?

  Her ethnicity is Canadian.

• 1:19:51November Kelly?

  That's true. That is true.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Well, so I don't, I don't think, I, if, if Seattle did have like rival ethnic gangs of like firefighters, I don't know about it.

• 1:20:02November Kelly?

  They, they came together like the Warriors in this moment.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  To fail miserably. Crucially, it takes them.

• 1:20:10Justin Roczniak?

  We got, we got, we got both kinds. We got Norwegians and Swedes.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  It takes them half an hour.

• 1:20:17Liam McAnderson?

  Motherfucker, I will see you out on the street.

• 1:20:19November Kelly?

  Having, having a kind of Glasgow, uh, like school playground argument to discover whether or not a Serbian counts as Swedish or Norwegian.

• 1:20:28Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we'll take them. We'll take them. Don't worry about that. We'll take them.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  It takes half an hour for them to find where the fire is.

• 1:20:35Liam McAnderson?

  It's in the glue. Weren't you listening?

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  Well, because the fire is like in the, started in the basement of this building, which is like below grade. So they're kind of outside seeing all the smoke, looking for fire and they can't find it. Um, and by the time they finally do.

• 1:20:50Justin Roczniak?

  The streets, right?

• 1:20:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:51Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 03

  By the time they finally do, by ripping up part of the sidewalk boards to like go looking for where the fire is at. The fire has already burned through the wooden basement wall that it was in and started to burn into the next one. And it's also caught the underside of the street on fire.

• 1:21:08November Kelly?

  That's some inception shit. The like.

• 1:21:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:21:10November Kelly?

  The bottom of the street you're on is on fire.

• 1:21:13Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes. After they've pulled up the sidewalk, they go, oh shit, this is on fire.

• 1:21:17November Kelly?

  Technically, you're now being like grilled at that point.

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  Gently, I suppose. Yeah.

• 1:21:22Justin Roczniak?

  Broiled?

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

  It's like how they make a Whopper. It's like flame, flame grilled.

• 1:21:27Justin Roczniak?

  I get, yeah, you'd be, you'd be flame grilled. Yeah. If you were under the sidewalk, you'd be getting broiled.

• 1:21:31Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:32Speaker 03

  So, so they, so the firefighters find where the fire is finally after half an hour of letting it burn through the basement wall and into the next building.

• 1:21:39November Kelly?

  More like the fire finders.

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  Uh, this photograph is taken like a couple hours in when it's like, oh, this is a problem. Actually, um, you can see the massive crowd that has gathered to be like, damn, that this, this, that's a crazy fire.

• 1:21:51November Kelly?

  Going out in the street to be like, damn, that's crazy, has been one of the great American activities of all time.

• 1:21:57Justin Roczniak?

  I didn't have Netflix yet.

• 1:21:59November Kelly?

  I mean, even, even now you do have Netflix, Americans, you'll still go out in the street and be like, damn, that's crazy.

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  And it's like a frontier towns. There's not like a ton to do besides like drink and gamble and I guess go to the brothel and.

• 1:22:10Justin Roczniak?

  All right. Yeah, I would definitely be gambling on how big the fire would get.

• 1:22:13November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. The poly market was fucking crazy.

• 1:22:17Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I know it is. It's Seattle.

• 1:22:21November Kelly?

  Oh, fuck you.

• 1:22:27Speaker 03

  So, so the firefighters tap into the hydrants, um, of which they can find like, you know, three, because there's hardly any in the city. Um, and they, they start spraying the fire down and then they lose all pressure immediately. And they're extremely confused about this. Uh, according to Paige Olson, who is, um, runs the Last Resort Fire Department, which is a historical society that's got a bunch of vintage like fire trucks and stuff in Seattle. Um.

• 1:22:52November Kelly?

  God, that's cool. You can just do anything.

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  I need to go, I wanted to, I've tried to visit for this episode, but because of the holiday, I couldn't actually get in to see them because they're open for like one day a week. Cause it's like, it's a very small, you know, group, but they do have an old, an art deco fire station full of like vintage fire trucks.

• 1:23:08Justin Roczniak?

  Ooh, oh, that sounds fun.

• 1:23:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I gotta go. Well, we could do that. It's like, uh, that we come to Seattle and we'll go visit the vintage fire department.

• 1:23:15November Kelly?

  I'm trying. Americans, please peaceful transfer of power.

• 1:23:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:23:20November Kelly?

  Or at least a border permeable enough to like smuggle me over.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  So, so, uh, paid via Paige's theory on this is that basically the fire has eaten away at the underside of the street enough that it's actually caved in a bunch of the wooden supports for the wooden pipes and started burning through all of it. And so it's lost it, the, the system loses all pressure, the soil. The whole pump house in the city is now just spitting water back out into Elliot Bay. Instead of actually like pressurizing the hydrant system. And at this point, you know, the firefighters are like, oh shit. There's a direct quote from the Seattle Post Intelligencer. "A cheer rose from the crowd as the beat of engine number one was heard and two streams of water were turned on to the fire. But the cheer of hope died away in a wail of despair when after a few minutes pumping the streams,

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  they became so weak that they did not reach the top of the building, showing that there was no water with which to fight the fiend of fire."

• 1:24:14November Kelly?

  Again, great street faces to be like, whoa.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  Well, no, it gets better. At this point, at this point, the massive crowd begins heckling the firefighters.

• 1:24:29Speaker 03

  So yeah, so they're like, they're, they're getting spit at. Meanwhile, they're trying to run hoses out to, you know, Elliot Bay. They go, just suck up seawater. But it's low tide, so it takes them like another half an hour to run a hose down there.

• 1:24:43November Kelly?

  Guy in like fire boots having to like inch his way over a mud flat to get to the water.

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:51Justin Roczniak?

  While being heckled, like.

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, people are throwing garbage at you.

• 1:24:55November Kelly?

  Yeah, getting batteries thrown at you and shit.

• 1:24:57Liam McAnderson?

  That's our thing.

• 1:25:00November Kelly?

  Sorry, I don't know what they throw at you and getting like easter dial, like vials thrown at you.

• 1:25:05Justin Roczniak?

  Just nail with carabiner series.

• 1:25:08Speaker 03

  No, this is the current modern equivalent. Somebody writes a call out post for you.

• 1:25:14November Kelly?

  Actually, the Seattle Fire Department is contributing to an air of like unsafety.

• 1:25:20Justin Roczniak?

  A Seattle Fire Department can't get it up. Damn.

• 1:25:26November Kelly?

  You would have been a way better firefighter hackler than me.

• 1:25:31Speaker 03

  So yeah, so at this point, you know, by the time they finally actually have water, the fire is going, spreading through basements and under the streets. And advancing like in all directions at once. There's not like any single direction because it's just sort of burning in a big circle. So next slide, please.

• 1:25:48November Kelly?

  I've had Remworld games go like this.

• 1:25:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the fire reaches the next block where it reaches the Dietz and Meyer liquor store.

• 1:25:57Justin Roczniak?

  Hmm.

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  Um, and of course.

• 1:25:59Justin Roczniak?

  Do you know Watson?

• 1:26:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:03Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, I was thinking Dietz and Watson, the, the, the meat purveyor, the meat guys. Yeah. Oh, no.

• 1:26:08November Kelly?

  They're meat guys?

• 1:26:09Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:10November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:10Liam McAnderson?

  Walking a filly asshole.

• 1:26:14Justin Roczniak?

  You don't got a meat guy? Come on.

• 1:26:16Liam McAnderson?

  Not a real.

• 1:26:18November Kelly?

  I don't got a, I don't got a meat guy. I'm sorry.

• 1:26:20Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, you gotta get a meat guy.

• 1:26:22November Kelly?

  I'm, I'm fucking trying. What do you think I'm on the apps for? Jesus.

• 1:26:28Justin Roczniak?

  Someone to provide you with delicious deli meats.

• 1:26:34November Kelly?

  I should be on an app for that, actually.

• 1:26:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, there should be an app for that. Actually, a man just comes and provides you with wonderful deli meats.

• 1:26:41Liam McAnderson?

  Well, it'd be Instacart if Instacart works.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  Slicer, but spelled without the E.

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  So yeah, so at this point, the, the, you know, the heat of the fire explodes a bunch of barrels full of whiskey in the basement of a liquor store.

• 1:26:56Liam McAnderson?

  No.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Which, you know, obviously is just like a shit ton of fuel to the fire and it's very intense at this point.

• 1:27:02November Kelly?

  Why does this fire smell so much like artificial raspberry flavoring?

• 1:27:06Liam McAnderson?

  What's happened to me? Oh, whiskey, no.

• 1:27:12Speaker 03

  Um, and chronology is, please forgive me because the chronology of this is a little mixed because like the reporting on even who started the fire or where it started wasn't correct and for like weeks afterward, it was kind of chaos. Uh, but at some point around now, the very massive, uh, ornate, uh, opera house burns down. Um, and everybody's kind of like, oh shit, because that was actually a well constructed building. I'm like the rest of these like storefronts are just kind of all burning through, you know, these were all, a lot of this is kind of like, yeah, we threw up this shack as fast as we could. That one was actually a building that they were like, oh, it's got like, nice thick windows and walls and we care about it. And that catches fire and burns down. They're like, okay, this is gonna be an actual problem.

• 1:27:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, this is, this, this is, this is not, no one's stopping this thing. Yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I'm making, making matters worse. The fire chief, Hosea Collins, is at a reportedly, I don't know, like some, some people insist this isn't true. I saw it in enough sources that I'm going to say it's true. He was at a firefighting convention in San Francisco when the fire broke out.

• 1:28:13Justin Roczniak?

  Now, I mean, considering how the fire in San Francisco went a few years later, I don't think he learned anything.

• 1:28:23Speaker 03

  The thing about the San Francisco fire, right, is like, if it hadn't followed like an eight and a half magnitude earthquake, it would be like, yeah, it was mismanaged. But like, here they've got, here they had every chance possible to stop this first.

• 1:28:36November Kelly?

  It's just going to your 1880s firefighting convention and a guy takes the podium, fires up 1880s PowerPoint, and the slide just says, nothing we can do, throws his hands up and like gets a round of applause.

• 1:28:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, then the next, the next slide, the next slide says, um, you know, that, uh, Croats are, uh, dog people and serve it as bread.

• 1:28:58November Kelly?

  The problem is, like, it's, it's, it's a

• 1:29:00Liam McAnderson?

  Question mark?

• 1:29:01November Kelly?

  Uh, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, like a weekend convention, but the actual two weekend days of that are taken up with like inter-ethnic fighting.

• 1:29:09Liam McAnderson?

  Slurs you've never heard of.

• 1:29:10November Kelly?

  Yeah, you get like, you get like some slides, some presentations on like the Friday evening, and then Saturday morning through to Monday morning is just like fisticuffs, yes.

• 1:29:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, yeah, slurs.

• 1:29:23Justin Roczniak?

  No, that was actually a serious problem, uh, at least, again, at least in Philadelphia was, uh, fire companies going and trying to burn down each other's fire stations.

• 1:29:36November Kelly?

  Of course, we, we attacked them with their most hated enemy, fire.

• 1:29:42Justin Roczniak?

  Sometimes they would steal, they would steal each other's fire engines.

• 1:29:46November Kelly?

  Being, being a firefighter arsonist is some real like Oppenheimer trying to harness the energy of the gods type shit, you know?

• 1:29:57November Kelly?

  It's like I fight the fire, but I also, you know, I use the fire to my kind of Yeah, exactly. Now I am become Croatian destroyer of fire stations.

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, so so the fire, the fire chief is gone. Um, out at, uh, out of this firefighting convention. Some people say it was a wedding. I like to believe it's firefighting convention.

• 1:30:19November Kelly?

  Why not combine the two, you know?

• 1:30:22Speaker 03

  Getting married.

• 1:30:22Justin Roczniak?

  They were trying to unite two desperate volunteer firefighting corps.

• 1:30:27Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28November Kelly?

  Doing Romeo and Juliet, but the Montagues and Capulets are different fire companies in 19th century Philly. I would, I would watch the fuck out of that.

• 1:30:37Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:30:38Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they're like, Poles and Ukrainians.

• 1:30:43November Kelly?

  In many ways, it's fucked up that the Ukrainians are in a sort of like fight for their life against the Russians when the kind of natural instinctive enemy of the Ukrainian is the Pole. Yeah.

• 1:30:52Justin Roczniak?

  It's true. Yeah.

• 1:30:55November Kelly?

  And like now you're in a situation where the Poles are like, you know, funding Ukrainian defense and like, no wonder the Polish right wing get mad about it.

• 1:31:04Liam McAnderson?

  Listen, it's, it's one of those things where it's like, only, only I will defeat my nemesis. I don't need the Russia to help to do this.

• 1:31:10November Kelly?

  Only I get to make mass graves of Ukrainians and then lie about it.

• 1:31:16November Kelly?

  Only me and maybe the boy, and by the boy, I mean Lithuania.

• 1:31:19Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  Anyway, so, so the fire chief is gone. The brick opera house has burned down.

• 1:31:26Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no.

• 1:31:28November Kelly?

  Fuck, my Mr. Goodboss.

• 1:31:30Speaker 03

  Making things worse, worse, the acting fire chief, James Murphy, was reportedly, they, they completely annihilated this guy in the press. The fairest description is that he was distraught.

• 1:31:42November Kelly?

  Oh, so Reed like dead drunk.

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, just absolutely like freaking the fuck out.

• 1:31:48Liam McAnderson?

  Dead to rights, right?

• 1:31:50Speaker 03

  So the mayor, Robert Moran, takes over and he's like, all right, we have to, it's time to break out dynamite. We have to blow up this block of wooden buildings.

• 1:31:57Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:00Liam McAnderson?

  Guess what we're gonna fucking do, boys?

• 1:32:03November Kelly?

  American mayors left their own devices, even absent a firefighting situation will be like, we have to blow up these poor people's houses with explosives.

• 1:32:12Speaker 03

  No, that's the next time they use the dynamite. The first time was just, it was, wasn't poor people's housing. That's the next one. You gotta, you gotta stick with me here, because the fire immediately, the fire blows directly over the, the new block of buildings. They've just exploded.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  If the streets are wooden, I don't know what they were expecting to fucking accomplish here.

• 1:32:34Justin Roczniak?

  I would like to order cheesesteaks.

• 1:32:37Liam McAnderson?

  Sorry, I was texting.

• 1:32:41Justin Roczniak?

  I like to, I like to, I like to read out my texts as I make them.

• 1:32:46Liam McAnderson?

  My phone is upstairs, so I was using the watch feature.

• 1:32:50November Kelly?

  What?

• 1:32:52Justin Roczniak?

  I'm very confused.

• 1:32:53November Kelly?

  Pennsylvania secret agent bullshit is this that you get to say, I think we should order cheese steaks into your wristwatch?

• 1:33:01Justin Roczniak?

  Go, go gadget cheesesteak.

• 1:33:06Liam McAnderson?

  My phone is upstairs because it's charging. Because it's the fast chargers upstairs, right? Okay, great. Are you still, are you still with me? So my phone and watch are connected, so I can, I can talk to text and I can't be bothered to go upstairs to talk to my wife to order cheesesteaks.

• 1:33:23November Kelly?

  I love, I love, I love our work.

• 1:33:24Justin Roczniak?

  So you, you, you talk into your, your watch, which sends it to your phone.

• 1:33:29Liam McAnderson?

  What sends it to my wife?

• 1:33:31Justin Roczniak?

  Orders you a single pair.

• 1:33:33Liam McAnderson?

  Kill me. I'm leaving that.

• 1:33:37November Kelly?

  First podcast to be destroyed by competing ethnic division.

• 1:33:42Liam McAnderson?

  Surely not the first.

• 1:33:46Justin Roczniak?

  One of us could steal all the, all the Patreon money and start up microbrewery, you know?

• 1:33:51November Kelly?

  Well, I mean, that's, why do you think Chapo got rid of Virgil Texas?

• 1:33:55Liam McAnderson?

  Is he a pedophile?

• 1:33:56Justin Roczniak?

  No, I was, I was referencing a different leftist podcast.

• 1:34:01November Kelly?

  You're gonna have to bleep the word and I'm gonna have to really insist that you, you called him a Croatian or something.

• 1:34:08Liam McAnderson?

  I am not surprised.

• 1:34:09Justin Roczniak?

  Virgil Zagreb?

• 1:34:11Liam McAnderson?

  I just like.

• 1:34:13November Kelly?

  Regions of Croatia. What's the most Texas like? What is the Texas of Croatia?

• 1:34:18Justin Roczniak?

  What is the Texas of Croatia?

• 1:34:21November Kelly?

  Um, Istria. Virgil Istria.

• 1:34:24Justin Roczniak?

  I just saw that movie, uh, a couple of days ago.

• 1:34:27November Kelly?

  Virgil Dalmatia? Virgil Slavonia? So anyway, everything's on fire and they're blowing up buildings. Yeah.

• 1:34:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know, the, the thing is, the fire is moving slow enough, they can like, get stuff out of some of the buildings, because all of the, all of these hastily constructed shacks are made from old growth timber that would cost tens of thousands of dollars today.

• 1:34:49November Kelly?

  Oh, good. I feel even better about this now.

• 1:34:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, the entirety of Seattle was covered in these like, huge, old, gorgeous forests, and they tore them all down to make these hastily constructed shitty ass buildings. Um, so the fire burns relatively slowly through them, because, you know, the wood is so dense. Um, and they try and save like, a handful of buildings, um, there's like, they take the courthouse and they run a bucket brigade all the way up to guys on the roof who just pour water down the sides of the building to keep it cool enough to, from sparking. Um, because the hoses don't have enough pressure to reach above the first floor at this point. And, you know, the courthouse is full of records, and they were apparently, they apparently were conducting a murder trial until like, the fire was like, two blocks away. And then they were like, alright, court's adjourned, we gotta stop the building from burning down.

• 1:35:34November Kelly?

  Also, also a good setup for a movie.

• 1:35:37Speaker 03

  But also just like, the most frontier town shit you've ever heard. You know, this is just, Seattle was like, ruggedly clinging to the ways of the old west by being stupid and obstinate to the last possible second. Um, then, they decide, okay, let's blow up all the poor people's houses, um, to try and save the mill. Um, and it doesn't do anything except, like, prepare the city for what Robert Moses will do in another century to the same neighborhood. Which is just go through and blow up a bunch of people's houses.

• 1:36:10Justin Roczniak?

  Hi Bert.

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  Bert, Bert is back. Hi Bert.

• 1:36:14November Kelly?

  We're, we're a strongly pro-Bert podcast.

• 1:36:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  Pro-Bert, anti-Robert Moses.

• 1:36:19November Kelly?

  To be clear, if you're writing in the comments, Bert is spelled with a U.

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  Yes, his name is, he's named for Burt Reynolds. His full name is Bartholomew Reynolds.

• 1:36:28Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  He is seven. Alright, anyway, sorry, I'm distracting myself.

• 1:36:33November Kelly?

  No, it's my fault. What I've done is I've introduced a bonus episode energy into the mainline episode. So if you're on the fence about subscribing to the Patreon, it's all like this.

• 1:36:44Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:44November Kelly?

  For good or ill. If you like this, subscribe to the Patreon. If you don't like this, subscribe to the Patreon anyway, please, but you're not gonna enjoy it. No.

• 1:36:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, just give us money anyway.

• 1:36:55Speaker 03

  So yeah, subscribe to the Patreon because it's helping pay my rent while I'm, you know.

• 1:36:59November Kelly?

  For real.

• 1:36:59Speaker 03

  Guest hosting and that's it. That's praxis actually to fund a trans women's apartment in Seattle.

• 1:37:05November Kelly?

  I think that's true.

• 1:37:06Justin Roczniak?

  This is true.

• 1:37:06Speaker 03

  It is. Anyway, so yeah, I actually, you know, speaking of Seattle and places, I don't live that far from here. It's kind of cool. I like went down there and had a coffee. Like as I was writing these slides, when I went to the library, that's like two blocks away to research this episode with their files in the city. Um, this is fun. But anyway, so at this point, you know, they blow it up. Couple of blocks of houses and they're like, this isn't working. This is whole city's gonna burn down. So people like take their. Either, you know, try to grab their valuables and run up into the hills, basically outside of the city, or they they put it all on a wharf. To take it out into the middle of Elliot Bay where the water would protect them. But of course, like the.

• 1:37:46Speaker 03

  It's unclear how well this worked. Contemporary reporting wasn't like some people were like, oh, they saved most of the valuables. And some people were like, everybody lost everything. And I wasn't quite sure which was true.

• 1:37:56November Kelly?

  This would be a great, a great time and place to start stealing.

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  All of the wharves burned to the ground. And yes, on that note, they, you know, they, they. At this point, the fire is audible for miles in any direction because of how loud it's just like all of these buildings burning are. They could see smoke in Tacoma 30 miles south. They call in reinforcements from Portland and Victoria, British Columbia, not to help fight the fire, but to help prevent looting.

• 1:38:23November Kelly?

  Coward. Fuck, they're onto my stealing idea.

• 1:38:26Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, my God. Damn.

• 1:38:28Speaker 03

  Next, next.

• 1:38:29Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, they're gonna, they're gonna bring in, they're gonna bring in, I don't know, like, like some Italians or some. Some Portuguese or something. My God.

• 1:38:39November Kelly?

  They're pretty Canadian.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  Bert, I'm begging you.

• 1:38:44Speaker 03

  Anyway, this is, I just put this sliding because I thought it was funny because the concept of an insurance company sponsoring this exhibition specifically was. Just made me chuckle.

• 1:38:54November Kelly?

  Just like, here's a time when we really ate shit.

• 1:38:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:58November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, remember the time the city that you, because this is for the Seattle Museum of History and Industry, who has the pot now, the glue pot? So this is just like, hey, you remember the time that the city you live in burned to the ground? You should buy home insurance.

• 1:39:12November Kelly?

  I like, I like the sort of illustration of all of these beautiful hose teams, you know, working with their high pressure hoses that we know that they didn't have.

• 1:39:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, no, this, this, this illustration is very much like, oh, wow, look at how valiant they were fighting the fire. And it's like, no, they just kind of had to give up like they, at this point, these guys are kind of like doing the like Chad versus soy, you know, meme. They're sort of walking with their backs hunched over as they're getting hackled and pelted with trash.

• 1:39:40November Kelly?

  Yeah, these guys aren't getting pelted with nearly enough trash.

• 1:39:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no. So, uh, next slide, please.

• 1:39:46Justin Roczniak?

  God damn. They're getting called Macedonians.

• 1:39:52Speaker 03

  So, uh, the fire burns until 3 a.m. June 7th, the next day. Um, exact amount of fire is a little bit hard to come by, but estimates are, modern estimates are about 120 acres or 58 blocks.

• 1:40:08November Kelly?

  Geez.

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  Plus, like, almost every wharf in the city. Uh, it burned down Yester's Mill and a handful of other mills. It burns at a railroad station and like the railroad dock. Um, no one dies.

• 1:40:20November Kelly?

  Huh.

• 1:40:20Speaker 03

  Which is insane.

• 1:40:21November Kelly?

  Really impressive.

• 1:40:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's no, like.

• 1:40:25November Kelly?

  And you weren't getting any help from the firefighters because they were all sort of fending off garbage.

• 1:40:28Liam McAnderson?

  Wars.

• 1:40:29November Kelly?

  Yeah. And doing ethnic wars.

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:31November Kelly?

  So of keeper, motherfucker, like.

• 1:40:33Speaker 03

  It is estimated that a million rats died.

• 1:40:36Liam McAnderson?

  That is a real gross estimate.

• 1:40:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Justin Roczniak?

  That's a lot of rats.

• 1:40:41November Kelly?

  Who volunteered that particular statistic? Just the rat man arrives in the offices of the post intelligence to be like, by the way.

• 1:40:50Justin Roczniak?

  Conducted a thorough census.

• 1:40:52November Kelly?

  I'm, I'm missing one million rats.

• 1:40:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:55Liam McAnderson?

  The Pied Piper, what are you doing here?

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  Ratsky org walks into.

• 1:41:00November Kelly?

  I am missing 1,000 instances of the end of the movie wanted.

• 1:41:05Justin Roczniak?

  The end of the movie Ratatouille.

• 1:41:07November Kelly?

  Yeah, that's true. That is true.

• 1:41:09Justin Roczniak?

  Another movie which features rats.

• 1:41:12November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:41:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, that that said, it does do $20 million in damage, um, which inflation adjusted.

• 1:41:18November Kelly?

  So now.

• 1:41:21Speaker 03

  No, I think that was actually a bonus. They were like, ooh.

• 1:41:24Liam McAnderson?

  It's a rounding error. Don't worry about that.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. They were like, ooh, now we won't get the plague. Cause we finally got rid of our rat infestation.

• 1:41:32November Kelly?

  Twenty million dollars of damage, one million rats worth of improvement.

• 1:41:38Justin Roczniak?

  No, all those rats were the Ratatouille rats. They they fucked up the Seattle culinary scene for.

• 1:41:43Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, God.

• 1:41:43November Kelly?

  Yeah, that's why they it damaged the sort of haute cuisine of Seattle so badly that they had to set pig in Portland.

• 1:41:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53November Kelly?

  It's a good movie.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  Anyway, the the inflation adjusted, it's about $700 million worth of damage.

• 1:42:00November Kelly?

  Jesus.

• 1:42:00Speaker 03

  Um, and of course, there's like, next slide, please. There's like no city left.

• 1:42:06Justin Roczniak?

  I have to pee. I'll be right back.

• 1:42:09Liam McAnderson?

  Go pee. Go piss, girl.

• 1:42:10Speaker 03

  Like, that's that's looking out on the water. Uh, you can see that, like, everything, everything is burnt to the ground.

• 1:42:16November Kelly?

  Yeah, that's that's that's matchsticks, like.

• 1:42:19Speaker 03

  Should I wait?

• 1:42:20November Kelly?

  No, it's fine.

• 1:42:20Liam McAnderson?

  No.

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:42:21November Kelly?

  Oh, I mean, if you want, if you want to talk about, like, you know, give me some, like, Hershey's opinions or something of that nature, that's fine. We can do that, but.

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  No, I have a I have a Rudyard Kipling quote, because he visited, he was doing a tour of the West Coast and went to Tacoma, and then he had, like, stopped to refuel in Seattle.

• 1:42:36November Kelly?

  Richard Kipling doing a tour of the West Coast, being like, all right, so you guys think you're, you guys think that you're casual racists. Let me introduce you to a professional racist.

• 1:42:48November Kelly?

  A ranked competitive racist.

• 1:42:50Speaker 03

  Really? This is how I know too much of my humor has come from listening to you make jokes on this podcast, because I was about to make the same fucking joke.

• 1:43:01November Kelly?

  It's it's it's ultimately, it's a sort of a closed loop. It's basically incest what we're doing.

• 1:43:08Speaker 03

  I I listen to this show basically constantly.

• 1:43:11November Kelly?

  You are my, you are my baby joke sister, and you have gotten all of your jokes from me, and that's fine. People will appreciate getting the jokes in stereo. Um, no, I, Richard Kipling being like, I am so racist that I've written like poems, a form of racism that the American mind cannot comprehend yet. Um, just incredible. I mean, Americans did love to import a sort of British man of letters, like Dickens came out there and you know, like, uh, a bunch of others. And yeah, I'm, I'm desperately curious what impression America left on Richard Kipling.

• 1:43:47Speaker 03

  Well, so he visited it immediately upon it burning to the ground.

• 1:43:50November Kelly?

  Okay, so.

• 1:43:53Speaker 03

  So this is his quote, "Have I told you anything about Seattle? The town that was burned out a few weeks ago when the insurance men at San Francisco took their losses with a grin? In the ghostly twilight, just as the forest fires were beginning to glare from the unthrifty islands, we struck it heavily for the wharves had all been burned down and we tied up where we could, crashing into the rotten foundations of a boathouse as a pig roots in high grass. The town was built upon a hill. That is true. In the heart of the business quarters, there was a horrible black smudge, as though a hand, capitalized hand, had come down and rubbed the place smooth. I know now what being wiped out means.

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  The smudge seemed to be about a mile long and its blackness was relieved by tents in which men were doing the business with the wreck of the stock they had saved."

• 1:44:43November Kelly?

  Incredible.

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  That's, that's Rudyard Kipling upon seeing Seattle, which looked like this when he showed up. So yeah, it was pretty bad.

• 1:44:50Justin Roczniak?

  I, you know, when he says hand with capital letters, you know what I'm thinking of?

• 1:44:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:44:55November Kelly?

  What?

• 1:44:56Justin Roczniak?

  That's right. It's master hand from Super Smash Brothers.

• 1:45:08Speaker 03

  Next slide, please.

• 1:45:10Justin Roczniak?

  Final Destination, no items, only fox.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  So June 7th, 1889, the day after, the embers aren't even cold yet, and all the businessmen in the city get together and they're like, all right, let's, let's do another one for real.

• 1:45:26November Kelly?

  Yeah, do over, do over.

• 1:45:28Speaker 03

  Let's do a city for real this time. They, they mobilized National Guard, looting. They do not declare martial law, although they do note the arrest of a man wearing four brand new suits at once.

• 1:45:40November Kelly?

  Is it illegal? Is it illegal, Your Honor, to look fly as hell?

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't know it was a crime to have that shit on, Jesus.

• 1:45:56November Kelly?

  It's called layering.

• 1:45:58Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:59Liam McAnderson?

  Your Honor, they call me, they call me ranch because I be dressing.

• 1:46:05Speaker 03

  So, so they take this, they keep the, they keep more or less the same kind of like street grid, but they widen all the streets. They regrade up to 22 feet higher than the city previously was, which nowadays you actually go visit. It's like they call it the Seattle Underground tour. Because you can like see the original street levels they built a bunch of the city at. And then they just built all the streets over that. And that's just kind of like this.

• 1:46:28November Kelly?

  I really hope the underground doesn't burn down again.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  Well, that's the thing, right? It's like they actually wrote a fire code and like a building code.

• 1:46:34Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  So you did all the new buildings that they built had to be made out of brick. And they had to be like.

• 1:46:39Justin Roczniak?

  Have they considered having three fire codes, though?

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  No, just the one.

• 1:46:44November Kelly?

  They're like, we vastly need to increase the amount of bricks in Seattle, to which I say, open the border.

• 1:46:53Speaker 03

  You know, I had a joke in here for that.

• 1:46:55November Kelly?

  There's a slider there. Yeah, I was, I don't understand.

• 1:46:57Speaker 03

  I shouldn't say it. I shouldn't.

• 1:46:59November Kelly?

  I thought you might be doing a kind of like secret word thing where you're going to set up a klaxon the first time I made like a self deprecating trans joke.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm, I should, we should do that. I should have a soundboard that just like, it does like the red alarm.

• 1:47:11November Kelly?

  Hey, I mean, this, this kind of self deprecation pays my rent. Do we, do we need to start practicing like radical self-care and like being nice about ourselves? Or is that, would that make it worse? Like, would that be the thing that like dynamites the whole enterprise?

• 1:47:26Justin Roczniak?

  We'll all become like, we'll all become like tech startup guys then.

• 1:47:30November Kelly?

  Doing like wellness tips.

• 1:47:32Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, no, you gotta, you gotta, yeah, exactly.

• 1:47:34Speaker 03

  You gotta give me, I want some, yeah, we gotta do the start there and then I want fresh blood. That's my next, that's my next one.

• 1:47:40November Kelly?

  Gotta have your blood boy, yeah.

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I need, I want somebody just like Mad Max style.

• 1:47:45Justin Roczniak?

  If you don't have any self-love, if you don't have any self-loathing, that's a problem.

• 1:47:53Speaker 03

  I think the world hates us enough. We don't need to like help them out.

• 1:47:56Liam McAnderson?

  I remember that time I got yelled at in the comments for telling November I loved her. I remember that.

• 1:48:00November Kelly?

  Did you? I don't, I don't remember that.

• 1:48:02Justin Roczniak?

  That sounds about right though.

• 1:48:03Liam McAnderson?

  So it was like, oh, well, oh, bras, I will fuck you up, buddy.

• 1:48:11November Kelly?

  You express love in different ways. It's fine.

• 1:48:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. It's like, ah, yeah, yeah. You're not supposed to say that. It's supposed to be implied.

• 1:48:21Liam McAnderson?

  Why these nuts? Next.

• 1:48:24Speaker 03

  No, I'm, I'm, I'm the kind of a trans woman where like, uh, you know, for my birthday, uh, you know, Nova brought me out to Glasgow and I got to like travel overseas for the first time. I had this incredible time visiting all the museums and do, having all this fun stuff. And I was like, I don't know if she'd like actually likes me or if we're just like, if, are we like really friends or is she just like being nice to me?

• 1:48:50Justin Roczniak?

  I saw a picture of everyone in front of the house and Gareth.

• 1:48:54November Kelly?

  Yep. No, and the, and the whole time I was thinking, I wonder if all these people like me or if they're just kind of tolerating my, my presence, you know? I'm probably really annoying them.

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, though that, remember how early on we joked that this, the, the podcast now is a project to make my self-esteem better? The thing that nobody tells you is that when you transition, there's actually a limited pool of self-esteem that trans women are allowed to draw from.

• 1:49:24Speaker 03

  It's like, it's like orange cats in the single brain cell. So like the more self-esteem I get, I actually drain it actively from November.

• 1:49:33Speaker 03

  Every day I wake up, I'm like, you know, I feel pretty good about myself and Nova's going to bed like, God, I fucking hate myself.

• 1:49:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:49:45Justin Roczniak?

  Wasn't my turn to use the self-esteem.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Anyway, yeah, so they've instituted building code in the city of Seattle. They're like, shit, that we could actually, what if we did like a real city this time? They did, they vote on that, they vote on that water supply issue. It wins by 1875 to 51. So they, we get city water. And then they start to.

• 1:50:12November Kelly?

  I guess like having, having the city kind of having burned down the week before.

• 1:50:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, everybody, every single one of the 30,000 citizens watching, heckling the fire department, as they watched the hoses fail, probably did have some.

• 1:50:28Liam McAnderson?

  Macedonian dog boys, you're not very good at this.

• 1:50:34Justin Roczniak?

  A bunch of fucking Greeks down here.

• 1:50:39November Kelly?

  Just rolling into the Seattle City Council meeting and being like, so 51 Bulgarians think we don't need.

• 1:50:53Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, we are gonna get yelled at.

• 1:50:56November Kelly?

  Listen, if you're in the comments, if you're sort of patriotic for your country, whichever one it is, just say, and say it's the best one.

• 1:51:04Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:51:06Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, actually, give us the engagement, you fuck dick.

• 1:51:08November Kelly?

  I'm, I'm, I'm still clicking around the corner of First and, whatever. First and Madison, and we got a guy walking a tiny, tiny dog here, and we got a guy passed out at like, in the front of the coffee shop.

• 1:51:23Speaker 03

  Common, common Seattle scenes, yes.

• 1:51:25November Kelly?

  Beautiful.

• 1:51:25Speaker 03

  No, I was gonna say, if we, if we, if we get enough into the like ethnic grievances, if we can really dig deep.

• 1:51:31Liam McAnderson?

  I can do that.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  I think YouTube will start recommending this to people.

• 1:51:35November Kelly?

  That's true. That's true. Well, the thing is, we've got to start offering like life lessons about trad masculinity or something.

• 1:51:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, the superior European race is Romanian.

• 1:51:48Liam McAnderson?

  I don't know what the superior European race is, but it is not Romanian, my guy.

• 1:51:54Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm probably about as qualified as like Jordan Peterson to give masculinity tips.

• 1:51:59November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:01November Kelly?

  What would Jordan Peterson have made of the total rat genocide of Seattle in 1889?

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  Of like 90% of like masculinity influencers.

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  I know how to change a flat tire. Allow me to be your father.

• 1:52:19Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, sure. Alright. I don't give a fuck.

• 1:52:24Justin Roczniak?

  I know where the 716th Ranch is.

• 1:52:29Justin Roczniak?

  No, I don't know that, actually. No, obviously, I lost that one.

• 1:52:34Speaker 03

  True men have two 10mm sockets, so they can lose both of them.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  Anyway, yeah, they regrade the city. They had to build out of brick. Next slide, please. This is a map of the city shortly after the fire. All of those orange buildings are like basically new builds out of brick. So they revamp the whole city. The population expands massively because they bring in all of these like masons and bricklayers to like help rebuild. It goes from, you know, somewhere around 30,000 to 40,000 in the span of like a year.

• 1:53:09Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 1:53:11Speaker 03

  They rebuild everything. You know, they didn't lose as much property as like they did during like, you know, say like the SF fire or, you know, the same year actually Spokane and Ellensburg, two other cities in Washington also burned down. And those, you know, they didn't, they didn't have like the bay there to like throw a bunch of property into. It burned quicker.

• 1:53:28Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no, my theft.

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  So, yeah, so they were actually able to bounce back from this pretty quickly. And, you know, then, you know, the city is freshly rebuilt. There's a bunch of economic problems in the 1890s. We talked about that on the Cascade's Drellment episode. But, but in 1897, you know, the Yukon Gold Rush starts and Seattle is like the last big city before you make it to the Yukon and you have to like take supplies with you in order to be let into the Yukon. And so that's like becomes the resupply point. So by 1900, the city is, the city has 80,000 people. The population doubles in the span of a decade.

• 1:54:08Justin Roczniak?

  Wow.

• 1:54:10Speaker 03

  Mostly just to supply these people who are all headed north to strike it rich or much more likely die of exposure.

• 1:54:16Justin Roczniak?

  Strike it poor, yeah.

• 1:54:17Speaker 03

  Strike it poor and die.

• 1:54:19Justin Roczniak?

  Strike it dead.

• 1:54:19Liam McAnderson?

  Sell shovels dickheads.

• 1:54:21Speaker 03

  Sell shovels is the motto of Seattle. Like every time it's got a a population boom, it's because they don't, it's not like they've, it's not like they've found anything here where they're like, ooh, let's see, make money off this. They just were like, oh, let's just, let's just do whatever is hot right now. We got Boeing here. We have, you know, Amazon. They don't actually make anything. They just help the guys who make things. Yeah.

• 1:54:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. I have a question.

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:54:43Justin Roczniak?

  What is this wacky bridge?

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  That is a rail bridge that connects, uh, that was across the, the mouth of the Duamish, which was still mud flat. So it's really shallow. There's a trestle.

• 1:54:55Justin Roczniak?

  So it's just.

• 1:54:55Speaker 03

  With like a little turny bridge in it.

• 1:54:57Justin Roczniak?

  Like, like a horrible trestle and then you just go across and then there's a pier on the other side.

• 1:55:02Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:55:03Justin Roczniak?

  I like it.

• 1:55:05Speaker 03

  Right where that is now, that's actually the West Seattle Bridge. There's like a big, it's a huge, huge, uh, like interstate height bridge that, you know, big ships can get under. And then there's a couple of draw bridges. So there for like local surface streets. Um, but all of that, uh, like where we're basically from everywhere that that, that trestle comes out down to, uh, about the mouth of that river. That's all infill now. And we have like stadium.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  And, you know, the, like all of Soto, so a bunch of warehouses, yeah, all of that car dealerships.

• 1:55:35Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:35Speaker 03

  There's like a Lucid dealership there now, you know, that's all infilled. Uh, and then we polluted the absolute hell out of the Duamish and, you know, that's probably another episode. It was a super fun site for a while. Still not great, but, but any case, you know, 1900 city is, the city has expanded massively. Uh, they actually got a, they actually did build a real city. Um, next slide, please. So this is, this is actually it today. This is the new buildings are what we call in Seattle now Pioneer Square, which is the oldest remaining district of Seattle.

• 1:56:04November Kelly?

  Looks, looks very nice. I, I want to move here and start dating between eight and 16 puppy girls.

• 1:56:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Liam McAnderson?

  That's, that's too many people.

• 1:56:13Speaker 03

  Well, you know, nobody lives in Pioneer Square. It's just like we're tourist go.

• 1:56:16November Kelly?

  Okay, I want to take the puppy girls on like eight to 16 leashes like that one photo of Daniel Radcliffe. And I'll take them to Pioneer Square. We can hang out and then we go back to Capitol Hill and like, you know.

• 1:56:28Speaker 03

  For people who don't live in Seattle, I do actually see like trans men being walked on leashes, like not regularly, but not unregularly.

• 1:56:36November Kelly?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:56:37Justin Roczniak?

  I thought there was like a greater Seattle polycule that you had to be a part of.

• 1:56:43Speaker 03

  There isn't, and you should be scared of anybody who's telling you that you have to be.

• 1:56:47Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, I see. Okay, okay. I don't know. I thought there was some kind of like dominant like political force there.

• 1:56:54Speaker 03

  So there's a couple of different polycules. We all run a fire department.

• 1:57:02Justin Roczniak?

  Just stealing the engine.

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:05November Kelly?

  We're like, it's a big ladder truck. You should see it when the she/her company runs into the they/them company.

• 1:57:12November Kelly?

  My God, they're fighting each other. Oh, wait, they're not. That's not fighting.

• 1:57:17Justin Roczniak?

  I didn't know you could use a hose that way.

• 1:57:22November Kelly?

  The any pronouns fire company?

• 1:57:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, so now, now, you know, we have.

• 1:57:27Justin Roczniak?

  Z's, M, various neo pronouns, you know?

• 1:57:31Speaker 03

  Now we have, uh, now we've pedestrianized a few of these and you can pretend that you live in a paradise where cars don't rule all of America. And walk around and, you know, see, this is like cool bookstores and stuff. It's like, it is actually kind of cool. Notably, like this is actually, they almost bulldozed all of it in the 60s. During another one of Seattle's growth periods, because it was dilapidated and shitty. And it was full of queer people because that was the only place that could hang out and not get arrested. Uh, and then somebody, somebody big locally was like, no, we should save it, make it a historic preservation district. So they did. And then they pushed all the queer people out and arrested a bunch of them. Um, so the queer people fled up into the city and they learned to seek higher ground and now they all live on Capitol Hill.

• 1:58:13Speaker 03

  Well, most of them, I don't, I used to live on Capitol Hill and then the tech bros kind of encroached, pushed me out. So I'm like further down the hill now, but you know.

• 1:58:21November Kelly?

  Nonetheless, queerness remains alive in Seattle, which is the again.

• 1:58:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just, we have like seven hills. You can just live on one of them, you know?

• 1:58:28Justin Roczniak?

  You gotta, you gotta.

• 1:58:29Speaker 03

  And look down at all of the like Microsoft guys commuting to their job in their car and as they seethe in traffic.

• 1:58:36Justin Roczniak?

  You gotta, you gotta put the barricades up, you know, you gotta, you gotta.

• 1:58:39Speaker 03

  Well, we got our, we got woke mayor. So she said that she's gonna help build more bus lanes. So I'm personally hoping that they dynamite all of Denny Way and replace it with a big bus lane.

• 1:58:48Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:48Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:58:49Liam McAnderson?

  We'll replace it with IHOP Avenue.

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, we're about to get that we're like in theoretically, a couple of weeks. I'm hoping to be the first, I'm hoping to ride the inaugural like passenger journey. We'll see if I can actually swing it, but they're opening the one line, two line connection. So we have two trains. They go across the lake there's and they they're connecting with a floating bridge. It's actually the longest floating bridge in the world or second longest. I can never remember. We have both of them.

• 1:59:20November Kelly?

  Do not become, oh, well, there's your problem, episode.

• 1:59:23Speaker 03

  It'll be the first train running across a floating bridge in the world. I'm so excited.

• 1:59:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, it's the only, that's the only train floating bridge in the world, I think, ever. I don't think anyone's tried it before.

• 1:59:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:59:35Justin Roczniak?

  It's crazy.

• 1:59:36Speaker 03

  And in traditional Seattle fashion, what we do is we do an incredibly cool engineering project. It takes three times as long as it should and like three times the budget. And then it opens and you're kind of like, well, this has some structural problems, but it is cool.

• 1:59:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:59:49Speaker 03

  So I'm excited to, to say that I was there. It's kind of like a week I wrote, we, we hybridized our, the first of what is supposed to be a fleet of hybridized ferries recently. And I was on the maiden voyage, like hybrid voyage of that. And it was really cool. And then it's broken down like three or four times since then. And we won't have shore power to charge it with for like another five years. So it's kind of just like a really expensive project to like, put a big battery that you can't really use.

• 2:00:15Justin Roczniak?

  We run the diesel engine in a slightly different way.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, but yeah, the Great Seattle Fire was actually kind of, it was, it's sort of like the, the perfect infrastructure project and then a big disaster happens, no one dies. And then it creates so many jobs that everybody's actually kind of happy it happened. Like most, most businessmen were like, yeah, that's actually pretty cool that that shitty old building I was in burned down. Now I get to like work at an actual store and the sewage isn't flooding the streets and the basements aren't made of wood.

• 2:00:45Justin Roczniak?

  Can't do that today because of woke.

• 2:00:49November Kelly?

  Now, now, now you have to build some kind of like memorial or something, you know?

• 2:00:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:55November Kelly?

  Like one million rats memorial.

• 2:00:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you replace the whole burned area with a park.

• 2:01:00November Kelly?

  The historic burned area district.

• 2:01:04Justin Roczniak?

  Burned over district. That's in New York.

• 2:01:07November Kelly?

  And then, then, then you start Mormonism. Future bonus episode whenever we don't bother to get, reach out to the, um, uh, bring your money guys.

• 2:01:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, part of the reason Seattle's so cool is it's like the least religious city in America.

• 2:01:21Justin Roczniak?

  Oh.

• 2:01:22Speaker 03

  Nobody believes in anything here.

• 2:01:24November Kelly?

  Open.

• 2:01:24Speaker 03

  Capital and puppy girls.

• 2:01:26November Kelly?

  Open the border.

• 2:01:28Justin Roczniak?

  You're gonna have to go over there with a great, great white fleet. Open up the United States of America.

• 2:01:34November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:35Speaker 03

  We would welcome you as liberators.

• 2:01:37November Kelly?

  President Steinbaum, my friend's country, the United States of America, yearns for freedom.

• 2:01:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:45November Kelly?

  My country, the United Kingdom, also yearns for freedom and I for one will greet Mexican troops as liberators, provided they're not, you know, the Mexican Navy who are here to kill me.

• 2:01:54Justin Roczniak?

  The Navy, yeah, exactly. Well, they're offshore and they're on the boats.

• 2:01:59Justin Roczniak?

  Well.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  That's all I got.

• 2:02:01November Kelly?

  It's crazy how all that happened.

• 2:02:03Speaker 03

  We learned that it's actually sometimes good to burn a city to the ground.

• 2:02:06November Kelly?

  It's part of the life cycle. I wish it hadn't been made of old growth timber.

• 2:02:09Liam McAnderson?

  It's like the pine barrens. Exactly.

• 2:02:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you know, sometimes if you don't burn a city to the ground, it never grows.

• 2:02:16November Kelly?

  I still have like 50 fucking Mr. Goodbar's.

• 2:02:19Speaker 03

  You should, you should heckle your volunteer firefighters.

• 2:02:22Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, well, they're guilty of crime.

• 2:02:23Justin Roczniak?

  You know, find new and exciting ethnic slurs to call them.

• 2:02:29November Kelly?

  Develop a series of like inter Balkan beefs.

• 2:02:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 2:02:33November Kelly?

  Throw at your firefighters.

• 2:02:35Justin Roczniak?

  Do you hate Belarusians?

• 2:02:37November Kelly?

  Not enough.

• 2:02:38Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, talk to my dad about that.

• 2:02:43Liam McAnderson?

  Something about collaborators. I don't know.

• 2:02:44Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Go back to Smolensk.

• 2:02:52Justin Roczniak?

  Well, we have a segment on this podcast called Safety Third.

• 2:02:59Justin Roczniak?

  Dear Justin, Liam, and November.

• 2:03:02November Kelly?

  No mention of Victoria, no mention of Devon, no mention of Sam, the research assistant. This is bullshit.

• 2:03:08Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, not even Milkshake.

• 2:03:10November Kelly?

  Not even, not even Bert.

• 2:03:12Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, not even Bert. And it's his birthday. Yeah.

• 2:03:14November Kelly?

  It's his birthday.

• 2:03:15Justin Roczniak?

  It's his birthday, yeah.

• 2:03:17November Kelly?

  You didn't mention Corinne, it's her anniversary.

• 2:03:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:21Liam McAnderson?

  You know, don't read this one.

• 2:03:26Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yes, I'm ready, hit me with it.

• 2:03:28Justin Roczniak?

  Many years ago, I worked as a student temp for my large state university.

• 2:03:34November Kelly?

  Yeah, I noticed that LS and U are all capitalized.

• 2:03:36Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. The go in dumb, come out dumb too.

• 2:03:50Justin Roczniak?

  The union workers graciously taught us how to avoid danger. They swathed us with face shields and gloves and made sure we wore leather boots. I was chosen to mow lawns because I was a girl. My boss, a former marine instructor, concluded that whether for reasons of biology or socialization, young women do fewer stupid things than young men.

• 2:04:15November Kelly?

  That is not true, the stupid things just present differently.

• 2:04:17Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that's a damn truth. That's it, I'm a moron, so. What's about young?

• 2:04:22Justin Roczniak?

  The last, the last two student mowers were male and each had flipped a tractor over.

• 2:04:28Liam McAnderson?

  Who amongst us?

• 2:04:31November Kelly?

  Legends. Men are class.

• 2:04:34Justin Roczniak?

  One had mown a hill laterally and toppled sideways, the other had tried to pop wheelies and succeeded too well.

• 2:04:41November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:43November Kelly?

  They land in a way that compresses every vertebra in your spine like Jeremy Renner.

• 2:04:49Justin Roczniak?

  Thus, notwithstanding my entire lack of driving experience, I was selected. I learned to back up small trailers and to start tractors with a cabinet key because the original keys had fallen out of the ignition switch into the grass, then to use a paper clip once someone lost the cabinet key. But I never flipped a tractor over. The Union men allowed me to mow until noon because it's hot in the summer on large state universities' unshaded lawns, and they didn't want to give the temp sunstroke. I was trained by an honest to God horticulturalist how to correctly prune anything I could reach, and he didn't do a lick of work otherwise, but he did teach me the horticulture joke.

• 2:05:34November Kelly?

  You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make a thing. Sure, yeah, we've all, it's a Dorothy Parker joke.

• 2:05:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, and he taught me to take breaks and drink fluids and not get heat stroke. This jolly occupation was ruined when large state university was selected to host a national convention of university housing departments, and we had to prepare for an onslaught of guests. Parts of large state university lie among squiggly country lanes and a superimposed military grid of roads one, two, and three. Even locals get lost out there, so we needed signage for visitors, and my unit was lent to a different unit to create those signs. My new unit supervisor, John, was in a hurry, and our use of saber saws and spray paint

• 2:06:24Justin Roczniak?

  did not meet safety standards, but no one made a fuss until John told the Union men to cut lumber with a table saw. The shop steward said, no, that was out of title work in a higher pay scale.

• 2:06:37November Kelly?

  You need the, you need the International Brotherhood of Table Saw Operators.

• 2:06:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, but they'd do it if John brought in a competent trainer to teach them to use the saw, because then they could boast that that, they had that skill in pursuit of other large state university jobs. Now, John said, you need training to use a table saw? I'll show you how to use a table saw.

• 2:07:02Liam McAnderson?

  Pride cometh before the fingers come off.

• 2:07:06Justin Roczniak?

  The folks at the hospital reattached most parts of John's fingers.

• 2:07:15Justin Roczniak?

  And during his recuperation, the department brought in a real trainer. The man learned to use a table saw with a guard. What did I learn? To seek union employment.

• 2:07:27November Kelly?

  That's right.

• 2:07:27Justin Roczniak?

  I found state workers to be highly risk averse. They neither flipped vehicles nor saw their fingers off. I retired with all my appendages.

• 2:07:38November Kelly?

  That's, that is, that is union education. Why do you want a union job? Because you will have all of your fingers.

• 2:07:45Justin Roczniak?

  Perhaps young people listening to your presentations will take note. Thank you for your support of safety. From shop steward Sandra.

• 2:07:55November Kelly?

  Fantastic. Thank you, Sandra. Thank you. Thank you, unions for being a sort of sterling example of their own necessity.

• 2:08:07November Kelly?

  That was beautifully told as well. This is, this is the exact kind of length that we want. It was, this is a, a rhythmic timing.

• 2:08:16November Kelly?

  Magnificent.

• 2:08:17Justin Roczniak?

  I like how, I like, I like how it was implied.

• 2:08:21November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's, it's all done in implication. It's done in ellipsis, you know?

• 2:08:25Justin Roczniak?

  Fantastic. It was wonderful. Well, that was safety third.

• 2:08:34Justin Roczniak?

  Our next episode will be on Chernobyl. Does anyone have any commercials before we go?

• 2:08:40November Kelly?

  Please come to the live shows. Please listen to all of the other podcasts.

• 2:08:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 2:08:44November Kelly?

  A happy anniversary to Liam and Corinne.

• 2:08:47Liam McAnderson?

  Thank you.

• 2:08:48November Kelly?

  A happy, happy birthday to Bert.

• 2:08:50Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 2:08:51Liam McAnderson?

  Made it with seven minutes to spare, baby.

• 2:08:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:55Liam McAnderson?

  All right. Good night, everybody.

• 2:08:56Justin Roczniak?

  All right. Good night, everyone.

• 2:08:57November Kelly?

  Bye.