Pod Insights WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp Dylan Borland Unloads - The Truth About Legacy UFO Programs : PART 2 About this episode In this explosive PART 2 episode of WEAPONIZED, UAP whistleblower Dylan Borland reveals specific details about the legacy programs and the extreme measures that are taken against potential whistleblowers. Borland was one of five witnesses to testify to Congress in early September, but there were limits on what he could say in an open hearing. In this wide-ranging interview with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, Borland says he learned of an ongoing plan to shoot down UFOs, some of which resembled "flying propane tanks", about the methods used to hide UFO legacy programs outside the reach of Congress, and reveals his interactions with other personnel who worked for those hidden programs. Borland and others were kept in a bureaucratic netherworld where their secrecy was maintained through intimidation, excessive surveillance, death threats, and economic blackmail. They didn't want to stay but could not leave.
NOTE : If you missed it, catch up on PART 1 here... https://open.spotify.com/episode/4idnjkhjRcfkpuZZ3AbfzL
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Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2
Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : https://netflix.com/title/81674441
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Transcript 18,095 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:56 Speaker 02 Gold, lava, plasma, sun type of fluid going over and around the craft.
1:03 Jeremy Corbell? What is it that you saw and found out and can tell us about?
1:07 Speaker 02 Finally came forward because I sincerely believe they were gonna die.
1:11 Speaker 02 Sucks. I think what we are dealing with is very, very, very old. I think old humans have written those down in religious stories. I think that it's quite clear that we have been influenced by something else. I provided three rudimentary drawings, one of which was unclassified, and the other two were immediately thrown into a sap. And the two that were thrown into a sap prove we are not alone.
1:40 Jeremy Corbell? This is Weaponized.
1:51 Jeremy Corbell? In this episode of Weaponized, you will notice that we chose to censor certain details within Dylan's testimony, most unrelated to UAP. This is to avoid unauthorized disclosures and is subject to an ongoing clearance review. Dylan was given only six days to prepare his testimony for Congress. He is currently seeking clarity on being able to publicly discuss certain aspects of his professional experience. What is it that you saw and found out and can tell us about?
2:23 Speaker 02 Well, we can go into it. I don't know how much is gonna come out.
2:27 Jeremy Corbell? Okay. Let's hear it.
2:28 George Knapp? We'll figure it out later.
2:30 Speaker 02 So basically hypothetically speaking, uh, let's say that I claim I saw Bigfoot running around. Nevada test range and I saw Bigfoot outside the Starbucks and Bigfoot was wearing a US Air Force uniform. If I said that to Arrow or to the IG. But mainly Arrow and Arrow comes back and says, and I draw a nice picture of Bigfoot in a pretty Air Force uniform. Let's say Arrow comes back and says, hey Dylan, uh. You're talking about Starbucks is unclassified. You're talking about Bigfoot in that uh military uniform. That's TS no foreign. You are never to say another word about that. That's what Arrow did to me and they classified everything I brought forward.
3:12 George Knapp? So you're working for BAE. And for somebody else.
3:16 Speaker 02 Yep.
3:16 George Knapp? For somebody else in the structure of.
3:18 Speaker 02 Multi-agency special access program. Yes, sir.
3:21 George Knapp? And it's under the umbrella of a private company.
3:24 Speaker 02 The private company is how they are getting us to work there. Um, but it is all under the umbrella of that agency.
3:30 George Knapp? The information you had about these flying tech tacks that people are taking down, do you get that information through your work at BAE and that agency?
3:38 Speaker 02 There were people who ended up working there with me who were brought into the legacy program whose lives were also destroyed and they believe based off of what I was saying about what I experienced in my life, the triangle, what I knew that to be true at that point, they believe I was read into the program. And they believe that because I was having the clearance issues and the VA issues and everything else, the financial, what they did to me. They were experiencing it too. And there were multiple people who I was working with that were a part of what is conveyed as the legacy program.
4:10 George Knapp? So you're working at BAE for an agency. And on a coffee break or a smoke break, you confer with your coworkers. And you tell them about something you've seen and they start sharing information with you.
4:23 Speaker 02 Yes, but not even all that openly because people were still so freaked out about it. And this gets into something else, which is when I was there. And this is why, you know, we talked to Dave, um, and I explained this to Dave.
4:40 George Knapp? Correct.
4:40 Speaker 02 Yep. I, one of the things that was very odd was, you know, you're working 12 hours and it's middle of the night, three in the morning after working a 12 hour shift, fourth day in a row, you're just doing anything to stay awake. I remember we were talking about UFOs and you talk about everything from football to baseball to movies to music. It's just you're trying to stay awake. You're trying to get through the night or the day. And we were talking about UFOs and Bob Lazar come up and you're just talking normal talk.
5:11 George Knapp? Yeah.
5:11 Speaker 02 And I remember I had talked about what I knew to be true and I had gotten a pop up message on my computer. It said, you know, you're not supposed to be talking about this. To this day, tech, to this day, aside from having gone to the IG and what was conveyed to me by my attorney. To this day, technically I have never gone in official Dylan, here's what's happening. Do not do this. Here's why. It has been these subliminal pot shots. But there were more multiple people that I was working with that were well aware of the reality of this subject. And considering where I worked, the finances that went into there and how much money funneled through there and how many programs we touched.
5:52 Speaker 02 That there were a number of people that were well aware of the reality of this situation. The UFO subject had been a part of quote unquote legacy programs, had gone to TD wise, had done it. But most of the people that were aware that were, most of them were younger. Most of them had had their careers destroyed, their lives destroyed. Most of them believed that me talking about what I was dealing with, with my clearance and all those problems. I was dealing with the company and the agencies. They thought it was safe to talk to me about their own experiences in the legacy program.
6:29 George Knapp? They assumed you knew more than you were saying.
6:30 Speaker 02 100%.
6:32 George Knapp? So it's almost like, it sounds like they put all the bad eggs in one basket. It's like, you know, all the, these guys knew too much and they're blabbing. We'll put them all over here with you.
6:41 Speaker 02 Pretty much. I, that's.
6:43 George Knapp? And was there surveillance of the employees? How did the information go to a higher up that would send you a message says, shut the hell up?
6:50 Speaker 02 I mean, you're on an ops floor and you know, you have people from every agency you can think of in there. And you're on computer systems that are closed access and there's. Government employees and contract employees from multiple different contract companies. And knowing what I know now at in hindsight, knowing the way that these legacy programs work, if you're not embedded in the company, you're coming as a government representative. It's TDY's and knowing the government has TDY requirements, depending on what agency you work for. Some of these people probably found their way over the TDY and they had heard me talking about things that uh they
7:31 Speaker 02 thought they were far more important than they really are and thought that I shouldn't be talking about it.
7:37 George Knapp? You're just bullshitting with coworkers. Pretty much just talking and they are with you. Is there somebody in there that's counterintelligence that was sent in there to see who's blabbing?
7:45 Speaker 02 I would towards the later end, I would bet so, towards the later end, I would bet so.
7:50 George Knapp? At that point, you're not filing reports or calling New York Times or raising hell.
7:54 Speaker 02 No, I, to be honest with you, George, uh, talking to the media was sowing grain into me and other people in the work we did that it was like persona non grata. Like if you went and talked to anybody outside, like you're a dead man.
8:08 George Knapp? You wouldn't have done it.
8:09 Speaker 02 No, I mean, even whenever I felt that I had to, I was shaking. Um, even when I went to Senate, when I went to Congress, I was shaking.
8:17 George Knapp? Is this why your clearance was sort of put in limbo? It doesn't exist because you're saying things you shouldn't be talking about.
8:24 Speaker 02 I think early on it was a mistake and I talked with Dave Brush about this. I think early on it was a mistake. They were notified six, seven months into it and then from then on
8:37 Speaker 02 they outright just did not care. They terrorized me. I mean, I would go into work. I, they were notified by multiple companies that they were not housing my clearance correctly. Multiple companies tried to pick me up. Multiple companies said they would give me a pay raise, a better job. I couldn't take any of it. They notified BAE, they filed complaints and I got the runaround between the company, the two agencies that I work for. But long story short, it is my opinion and hindsight and other people who are also whistleblowers and other people have worked in these programs. That is a standard operating procedure by these people to keep this quiet.
9:15 George Knapp? Your career has been in classified programs.
9:18 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:18 George Knapp? That your trainees been in classified programs. They now tell you, you don't have a clearance. You can't go to work anywhere else. You are frozen here.
9:25 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:25 George Knapp? Do you like it or not?
9:26 Speaker 02 Yep, 16 hours a day doing night shift, weekends, holidays for $62,000 a year. Yep.
9:32 Jeremy Corbell? But to be clear, you, you had a clearance. It's not like they said you don't have when you lost it. They're keeping it in a purgatory, which is a technique we've heard over and over of how to keep people somewhere. And, and, and almost like try to squeeze them out through pressure. So I just want to make that clear. It's not like he ever had anything, a mark on his record where they're like, you no longer have a clearance. He was in good standing. It's a, it's a type of purgatory people create. So look, um, we're kind of glossing over this idea. We're here to talk about the UAP reality. Boom. You see something at Langley Air Force Base that you have testified to Arrow, to Congress, to Senate Intelligence. You, to even people that we're not talking about, you've testified to a lot of people officially, ICIG.
10:14 Jeremy Corbell? You, you wanted them to know that this craft you saw, which you're thinking, maybe, look, maybe it's something we reverse engineered. We now know through our, that it's likely not just our tech, that it might prove David Grush's ideas about reverse engineering that we've been told all the way back from Lazar. He saw an operational craft over a military installation that is far beyond, there's no fingerprint for, we don't have that technology to the best of my understanding at this time. So now whose was it? Was it a joint operation where the comms with whoever the pilots were? But it was a huge triangle that had this electrostatic charge. The other thing you told me that like I, I want to hear more about was the, the gold glow, because I've heard this
10:59 Jeremy Corbell? over and over and over, like a lava lamp. It was, it was a sort of undulating on the skin of this thing, right? Like a
11:06 Speaker 02 Basically, yeah. Uh, the best way I can describe it is overlay. If you're looking at a lava lamp and seeing that flow, place a yellow semi-transparent lava lamp flow.
11:18 Speaker 02 On this craft making ninety degree turns and all over the craft and it's just this yellow transparent, almost like smoke cloud pulsating all around the craft.
11:28 Jeremy Corbell? So clearly a technology like um like Matthew Brown has kind of thought that either it's like it's non-human intelligence technology, or it's something that we've figured out how to operate, and it's like a breakaway civilization. It's so advanced that this is something that's not acknowledged, even to Congress, the people that should have oversight. So you've got that big one UFO experience, right? The UAP experience. Then you have this accidental exposure, but to such a high degree, I don't want to ask the question because I don't know if you can answer, but did you physically see photos? Did you physically see the these documents?
12:01 Speaker 02 No, but because of how much was given to me and relayed that the individuals that had relayed it, they were doing so because they were genuinely concerned for their life because their careers were taken, their houses were broken into. I I mean, computers taken, mailboxes gone through that. And again, they knew what I was going through at this time. Um, they had given me enough information and the agreement was that if they died, that I run with it and just blow the whole thing up.
12:33 Jeremy Corbell? So he's got his firsthand experience of this tech, but then this is something, George, we and I hear a lot, which is in the legacy, when you're kind of put into the bad camp, you know, you're you're you're under scrutiny now, that there are there are these people that are threatening you and you do feel afraid for your life. And we'll get to it, but there are some things that occurred to you as this gets kind of deeper and deeper with what's happening. But just to be clear, so you're in a place where there's some sort of purgatory going on. Everybody has clearance, but they're in this sort of purgatory. You're in this sort of purgatory. Right? And then people directly directly involved the legacy program are afraid for their lives. So they're telling you so that you can at least somebody at their level can take that information if something bad happens to it.
13:18 Speaker 02 I think it's it was it was definitely that, but it was also this is such an isolating lonely experience, especially for young people to be exposed to the reality of this. If you if you already don't have the acknowledgement that it's a possibility, like if you're.
13:35 Speaker 02 I don't want to say close minded. If your average Joe Blow going through life and then all of a sudden this pops up on your radar and you're seeing physical proof of it. You probably take a step back and go, well. So you have that aspect, then the same people have that aspect of it and they also have the aspect of their government destroying them.
13:55 George Knapp? So they are going through the same thing you are.
13:57 Speaker 02 Exactly.
13:58 George Knapp? Their clearances are in limbo, home break-ins, threats.
14:02 Speaker 02 When I, when I come into contact with these people, they had had to resign from their government position. And take a contracting job for less money. They were basically blacklisted for six months. The only reason they ended up getting a job was because somebody on the legacy program had hooked them up after six months. And they ended up where I was at and they heard me talking all this stuff and they're like, oh, you ended up here too, buddy. So, uh, what the hell is going on here?
14:29 George Knapp? It's like the island of bad toys or something like that, you know, put them all in one basket.
14:34 Speaker 02 After I saw what I saw and I've experienced what I've experienced, I kinda, I think most of us have taken the. Delve into all of this material and you're like, I know this is true. I know this is true. I know this is true. Who else is saying these true things? Who else is? Relaying information that I know to be true to try and make sense of your own life. Um, they were aware of what I was talking about. I don't know the capacity in which they were. Briefed in. There's things that I knew that these people were aware of, but even they would not say, um, one of those being biologicals.
15:14 George Knapp? You think there's a storehouse of that information that anybody would have put something away in case something bad happened to them? But do you know what happened to these people?
15:22 Speaker 02 You know, the ones that I know still continue in the government, um, I think they.
15:29 Speaker 02 They continue in a classified operations programs.
15:32 George Knapp? They're not coming forward.
15:33 Speaker 02 They would never come forward a million years unless they were gonna die. And that's, it really sucks for me coming forward because I only came forward because I sincerely believe they were gonna die.
15:43 Speaker 02 Sucks.
15:44 Jeremy Corbell? And you yourself have had really unfortunate coincidences. Put it that way. And that's one of the reasons why we started communicating was because if anything did happen to him, he wanted to make sure some journalists like you and me knew about it. And so I call that like a perceived threat or a real threat. I don't know. And I think some people too, the way these things happen, you know, it's hard to put your finger on the cause of it. I know that happened with David Gresh, with Matthew Brown. You know, you get our police reports saying this happened. I had to break into my home, but proving who did it, even though it's very coincidental timing. And you have one of those experiences yourself was right when you're leaving this agency
16:27 Jeremy Corbell? that you're not naming, but I think we're all guessing. But right when you're leaving that employment.
16:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, I could.
16:33 Jeremy Corbell? The bad happened.
16:33 Speaker 02 I can fill you in there.
16:35 Jeremy Corbell? It's a good time for that one.
16:37 Speaker 02 So for three and a half years, I worked for BAE without the ability to take another job. And the nature of the work we did, we would get a new boss, whether contractor or gov every six months. I mean, that was the way it was. People were in and out of there because that job is hell. Three and a half years into it, we get a new contractor boss and he comes in and does the typical Dylan's line. His clearance is fine. He doesn't have his master's degree. He's full of crap and I'm like, I'm done with this, my man. So I went to got my government employee at the time, who I thought I was friends with. And I told him, I was like, I want to know who your boss is because I'm going to his office right now. Seven o'clock in the morning, I'm telling him I want my stuff fixed.
17:17 Speaker 02 He tried to tell me, don't do it. It's gonna look bad. I was like, I've been here for three and a half years. I cannot do this anymore. This work is killing me. This is insane. This is the worst place on planet earth. And I go to his boss and I walk in there. I say, here's my name, here's my social. Look me up in J pass and scattered castles because I guarantee I'm not in there. And verbatim, he says to me, he says, there's no way you wouldn't be allowed in the building. I was like, you want to bet? He looks me up and he says, oh, wow. You haven't had a clearance since 2014. He gets on a, I give him other names of people who were in similar situations. Uh, and he gets on a phone call and he makes a call and he says, fix this now.
17:58 Speaker 02 I walk out of the building and magically my clearance plots up in J pass and scatter castles that morning. I get a phone call from B A E system security and they're not happy with what I did. I take the first job I can, which was doing teaching counter U A S or counter unmanned aerial surveillance vehicles at Jido, which became Detra and uh, long story short, I come into work a couple of weeks later and I say, here's my two week notice. I'm out of here. They're like, oh, well, what can we do to keep yours? Like there's absolutely nothing you can do to keep me. They're like, all right. They're like, you got out process will be for two weeks. I'll process in a few days. I go and I out process early and as soon as I sign the paperwork, I rock, walk out of the office and the company that hired me,
18:42 Speaker 02 uh, contacts me and they say, your clearance has been erased again. So I lose my clearance in May. That's May of 2018. Uh, the company that hired me went to their prime, which was at that point, CACI. And for about a month, they are working, at least they're telling me they're working on getting my clearance fixed. And in early mid-June, I am contacted by the company that hired me and they said, we are unable to get your clearance back in the system. We have to move on to other candidates. Good luck out there. Uh, we don't think you're ever going to get your clearance fixed. That night I was invited out, uh, and I was getting ready to sell my vehicles. I had pulled my 401K at this point because I knew I was done.
19:25 Speaker 02 I had filed for unemployment, which they denied me for. And on the way home, I totaled my car and there was a police investigation and the police had told me in confidence that my brake lines were cut. They wanted it to look like a suicide, which goes into what the V A was doing with me and the medical issues and the doctors that it was on and all that.
19:48 Jeremy Corbell? So you leave somewhere you were at. Next thing you know, you're pushing your, your brake to the floor, total the car, but you're able to get home.
19:56 Speaker 02 Yep.
19:56 Jeremy Corbell? And you get home and then of course the police see the car totaled and they either wonder, were you sober? Is everything okay? And you invite them over. We said, come do a breathalyzer.
20:05 Speaker 02 Yep.
20:05 Jeremy Corbell? They said, well, it's gonna take a while.
20:07 Speaker 02 Yep.
20:07 Jeremy Corbell? Um, we're gonna contact you tomorrow. And then the lead investigative officer in that case physically comes to your home.
20:15 Speaker 02 Yep.
20:16 Jeremy Corbell? And warns you that somebody tried to kill you. Your brake lines were cut.
20:21 Speaker 02 He verbatim said, the only reason I'm not charging you with a crime is because your brake lines were cut.
20:25 Jeremy Corbell? I'm not charging for a crime because your brake lines were cut.
20:28 George Knapp? Is there a police report?
20:29 Speaker 02 There is a police report of the total of the car. And there's a police report of what I said to the officer, which is I went out with a friend who worked for the agency. I had two, three drinks playing pool over the night, had some wings on the way home, car totaled.
20:42 Jeremy Corbell? Does it say in any police report your brake lines were cut?
20:44 Speaker 02 I have been searching for it, no. And this is what sucks is this is the most damning. And I know what was said to me. And this is the only thing out of all the craziness that I do have evidence to, that you guys have seen these weird.
20:58 Speaker 02 Uh, polygraph tests and VA tests and all this, but the police report verbatim saying that my brake lines were cut. I am still trying to get proof of.
21:08 Jeremy Corbell? Exactly. That, that's a clear cut thing, right? It's like, it's like, you know, we can talk about the administrative terrorism, the bizarre psychological, I'd say experiments that he had to endure.
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21:49 George Knapp? You're working for BAE, but not really. You're working, that's the structure of this company. You're working for an agency. It's doing the same stuff.
21:58 Speaker 02 Yep, it's called. I mean, you have covered positions and unofficial covered positions. And even then I'm starting to float down a river of classification and classified information. But basically I was.
22:09 Jeremy Corbell? Your paycheck is from BIA.
22:10 Speaker 02 Yes.
22:11 George Knapp? Is there other other people who aren't necessarily BIA government people that you are interacting with at any?
22:17 Speaker 02 100% and there's other agencies outside of the IC that I'm interacting with. There are other contractors I'm interacting with because it's a way to.
22:24 Jeremy Corbell? Redacted.
22:25 George Knapp? Here's my question is your employer and the secret employer know what you know. They know what you did. You've done it well, even though you feel guilty about it. Why wouldn't they take care of you and not want you to spill beans or go off the deep end?
22:41 Speaker 02 So.
22:42 George Knapp? Why wouldn't they do that?
22:43 Speaker 02 All right, now you're asking me my opinion and this is my opinion to be clear. I think at the time that all of this was happening and considering with what the VA was doing to me, what was on my official record. It is my opinion that it would have been very easy to discredit me publicly by saying this individual is delusional. Look at all his medical records. He's a disgruntled employee, a liar, all of that. And then the problem became though, especially when I came to Arrow and spilled the beans. And then people found out I kept police reports and voicemails that are on my phone. You guys have heard.
23:24 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah.
23:25 Speaker 02 That people found out very quickly that it was going to be very easy to discredit me when I was still under the belief that if I said anything, they would call me a looney tune. And then they found out how much I knew, what I could prove and what I had. And it quickly became a problem of he is a danger.
23:47 Jeremy Corbell? Right.
23:48 George Knapp? We need to deal with this guy.
23:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:49 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah.
23:49 George Knapp? Bob Lazar kind of.
23:51 Jeremy Corbell? 100% and that that's the thing that, you know, that I noticed a lot is that a lot of what the types of reprisals that you have experienced in your line of work mimic the the same tactics all the way back to 1989, when George was reporting on Bob Lazar. It's like just ways to discredit you and and put you and look, I I've seen all the evidence that you've provided. We've looked through it. I've talked to people that know you really well over these years. You're a solid individual. Or wouldn't be sitting here. So the, the fact that they're setting up the option to be able to discredit is exactly what, why they probably chose Bob. Compared to him, I mean, he's working official capacity with clearances and all that stuff. It's the same tactics.
24:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, it's called a standard operating procedure. I actually laugh. I mean, honestly, I was laughing about George's monk right here when confronted. One thing about the United States government is they don't really change your SOPs or TTPs. They think if it works, it's gonna work forever. And this goes back to issues we were talking about, which is. The internet changed the game. AI is gonna change it more and too many people have come out. So these SOPs and TTPs to keep whistleblowers silent, you really gotta start adapting. Unfortunately, I don't want to give people who want to hide this secret or ammunition, but this is a different ballgame this time.
25:13 George Knapp? Give us a sense of how they've made your life miserable as a result of you leaving that job. And really setting the table for discrediting you if they need to do it.
25:23 Speaker 02 I mean, okay, that works. Um, for example, I witnessed a suicide. The police showed up. There was an official police report. I was with other veterans. The Veterans Affairs Administration was contacted. And the police contacted the VA on my behalf to tell the psychologist there that this happened. I went in with another veteran, a Marine who deployed Afghanistan, combat engineer, great guy. We went into our psychological eval from the suicide we both witnessed together. He was treated with due respect, asked how he felt, apologized, the whole nine. What they did to me is they accused me of faking a police report, faking being a police officer, wrote in my official medical records, which have hindered me to this day.
26:08 Speaker 02 It's still ongoing. That I am a liar. I am prone to delusions. I make everything up. And that is in my official medical records. You guys have the police report number. You guys have the voice. I mean, I played it for you both. That was the first thing the VA did to me. Uh, I was put into a hypnosis biofeedback program where once a week I had to go to the VA and I would be hooked up to a polygraph machine. And they would flash images of an Afghan child with a gun to a butterfly. And I'm hooked up to this polygraph machine and I have to count backwards from a hundred by seven while they're flashing images. And if I got the number wrong, like one hundred ninety-three, eighty-six, and I said seventy-seven,
26:52 Speaker 02 they'd start screaming at me, honking an air horn, and I'd have to restart. Um, I had to pull my 401K because I didn't have a clearance. I couldn't get a job. I almost lost my house. I had to fight BAE and the agencies I worked for for unemployment, which was two hundred seventy dollars a week in Northern Virginia, which if you know anything about Northern Virginia is the richest part of America. It is not feasible to even get groceries off of that. Basically, I lost everything but my house. And at one point in time, because I was concerned I was going to lose my house because I am a ten percent disabled vet, the VA is denying I ever did the jobs I did, denying I have the issues I have, the whole nine.
27:36 Speaker 02 I was genuinely concerned I was going to lose my house and I began to honestly consider and look at nonviolent offenses in order to have three hots and a cot. Because I was very quickly approaching the point in time where I would probably be a homeless disabled vet.
27:52 George Knapp? Something they wanted you to kill yourself.
27:54 Speaker 02 That is one hundred percent what they did. In fact, there was a doctor who filed a complaint within the IG at the VA on my behalf because they were, in his opinion, trying to get me to kill myself. At one point in time, they put me on a prescription medication for PTSD and depression, which I wasn't allowed to collect, by the way. The VA still denied I had PTSD or depression, but they put me on the medicine for it. And I woke up in the middle of the night while on this medication. And the best way I can describe it is, you know, you need to relieve yourself to go to the bathroom where you're thirsty. It's a physical response. I woke up in the middle of the night and the physical response in my brain was commit suicide. I freaked out, rightfully so. Something I will never do is commit suicide or a Roman Catholic. It is against my religion to do so. I contacted the VA.
28:38 Speaker 02 I went to the VA on the police's. Again, all documented and the VA psychologist, who was a CIA employee of all things, or was, was,
28:50 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah.
28:51 Speaker 02 Uh, said, oh, this is common. You need to increase your dose. The psychiatrist, uh, you have his name?
28:57 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:58 Speaker 02 He was made aware. He filed a complaint on my behalf. He found out there was a team dedicated to me at the VA. And he filed a complaint against that team. He was told that he is, nothing's going to change, that I answer them. And he told me verbatim, he said, Dylan, you need to do everything in your power to live through this. What they are doing to you is wrong. Do not trust any of these doctors. There is something very wrong with what is being done to you. And keep in mind, this whole time, this is happening. I'm over at this, at BAE. Um, and he resigned.
29:29 Jeremy Corbell? In protest, he resigned because of what they were doing to Dylan. And let's just back up. This is some stranger things bullshit. To take somebody like Dylan through, I think it was Stanford research, right? To take somebody through like Dylan.
29:42 Speaker 02 Penn State and Stanford.
29:43 Jeremy Corbell? It was what?
29:44 Speaker 02 Penn State.
29:45 Jeremy Corbell? Penn State and Stanford. And, you know, used air forms and these violent images and, I mean. Malcolm McDowell. It is, it is my favorite movie. Yeah. It's like Clockwork Orange. Not to make light of it, but it's like, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people about this. Um, and there's, it, it's some sort of psychological program that has really deep ties within the CIA.
30:05 Speaker 02 MKUltra.
30:06 Jeremy Corbell? It's, it's like a continuation of that is what I understand that. So there's something else going on that, that Dylan is searching for answers. And I, and I get that with, with what, with what he's experienced. It appears to be connected to the UAP thing.
30:20 Speaker 02 I mean, I, I'm almost certain it is because this goes back to when I was discharged from the air force. After I out process with the VA and the air force, the DOD mandated I go to the Navy. I'm not in the, I never worked with them. I, I trained Navy guys, but I'm not Navy. I never worked for the Navy other than special ops, which is under.
30:36 Jeremy Corbell? Redacted.
30:38 Speaker 02 I had out process with the Navy and when I went down out process with the Navy in 2013, I go down there and the Navy doctors asking me about ESP, God, remote viewing, aliens, the whole nine.
30:48 George Knapp? You walk in that day.
30:50 Speaker 02 I walk in and during my out process for my medical discharge, you're like, how's your back? Uh, oh, we're sorry about your dental thing. We'll get that taken care of. Oh, by the way, you know, we have some psychological questions to ask you. Do you believe in God? Do you believe in ESP? And this is, that's the first time, George. The second time I had the same thing happen to me when I was filing for PTSD with the VA. The VA doctors and the clinician that did it, the psychiatrist who did my VA eval started asking me, oh, do you believe in God? Do you believe in ESP? Remote viewing. Has this ever happened to you? Do you have prophetic dreams?
31:25 George Knapp? Did you ask him, why are you asking me this?
31:27 Speaker 02 I, I did. And they're like, oh, well, this is just standard eval. And, and all of this stuff, and this is what's so troubling is because I'm doing this and it leads us all the way to now and why I'm here on camera with you is I did everything by the book for our country. I put my faith in bureaucrats and companies in our nation. And what I got for it was losing everything. No job, no clearance, my master's degree gone, my reputation in the toilet. I go and put a bullseye on my back with Arrow the IG. I tell Congress, let's get it straight. Congress knows. Like everybody can play the games and I'm sorry to the congressional staff and members that are here listening to this. Y'all know.
32:11 Jeremy Corbell? Well, in, in fact, it's people within government that vouched for the authenticity of your character and experiences that have reached out to me and George. And, you know, they're a little nervous of us like covering, you know, what it is that you have to talk about, although there's a big thing you can't talk about. And I respect that. I understand as a patriot, you know, and the fact that you've testified to, to, to that stuff that you can't talk about it. But I, I guess my question is, I mean, do, do you think, just right on the nose, man? Do you think that you've been part of some like current day MKUltra type experimentation on you based on or related to UAP or not?
32:50 George Knapp? And is it punishment for what you've seen or is it part of the whole process you were meant to?
32:55 Speaker 02 What I will say is this, and this can be. I hope not, but I suspect so.
33:01 George Knapp? Could you walk us through at what point you start seeking out other people who've been through the same thing? Or and your attempts to share information with agencies that are supposedly honestly investigating this?
33:12 Speaker 02 That's a great question, sir, and I love it. So I get out, um, all this weird stuff is happening to me. Clearance gone, pull my 401k, fight for unemployment, the whole nine. In October or November of 2018, I get a phone call from somebody out of CENTCOM working for KAKI. And he says, hey, my name is, insert name. I heard what happened to you. What they did to you was wrong. I'm going to send you paperwork and get your clearance fixed immediately. You have to promise me though, that when you get your clearance fixed, you're going to go work back for the government. And a point in time will come where you're going to have to go and make some decisions. That was a conversation I had. I was like, yeah, sure. Sounds great, man. Whatever you say.
33:57 George Knapp? Make some decisions. What, what does he just said?
33:59 Speaker 02 Go back to the government, uh, do what you've been doing, be a stand-up guy. And you know, life is going to take you interesting places.
34:07 George Knapp? Does that sound like come back in, shut the hell up or what?
34:11 Speaker 02 Sounds like it, but I don't know. At this point, I'm just trying to keep a roof over my head.
34:15 George Knapp? So you're thinking, yeah.
34:16 Speaker 02 I said, yeah. He sends me a contract to deploy to Afghanistan to do security for $40,000 a year. He says, don't worry about the pay. Don't worry about the job. Just sign the contract. Sounds great, my man. Sign the contract, send it back. Three months later in December, January, he calls me up. He's like, hey, your clearance is good to go. Everything's fine. Sorry you can't deploy to Afghanistan. Good luck, buddy.
34:38 Jeremy Corbell? So he was doing that just to get your clearance reinstated? That was a 100% uh, somebody just trying to take care of you on the inside.
34:46 Speaker 02 It was. So from there, I got hired back to JIDO. Uh, the job I had taken teaching and training counter UAS, Ops, uh, was gone. They hire me to go do all source and target dev. So basically, you know, you take pictures and you have strings going everywhere, companies and names and location. That was me. I was doing all that for Ops. Get in there and this is 2019 and I am keeping my head down trying to get my finances in order. Keep my head down, but I'm still paying attention. I'm paying attention to the chat coming through work. I'm paying attention to reporting I can read. I'm paying attention to you guys. I'm paying attention to what's on public media. Lose names out there, A-Tip, All Sap.
35:30 Speaker 02 I'm looking at everybody sideways like I don't trust anyone. Um, and then all of a sudden 2022 rolls around and this is where everything kicks off again for me.
35:44 Speaker 02 2022 rolls around and uh,
35:48 Speaker 02 the task force becomes known to me at least. And I'm paying attention to our space in that forum and I'm kind of participating in the forum. And I'm pulling data from the forum that I know is 100% true and people from the legacy program. And I'm putting in little pieces myself in there to keep people on the right track.
36:08 George Knapp? Under your name?
36:09 Speaker 02 Under my name, yep. And I'm paying attention to the chat rooms and-
36:13 Jeremy Corbell? That'll target you immediately. We know that that our space was infiltrating.
36:18 Speaker 02 100%.
36:18 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah, so.
36:19 Speaker 02 And it's the same with ChatSurfer. I'm in ChatSurfer and here's a story. It's a hell of a story too. 2022 rolls around in the fall of 2022. Somebody who was interviewed by the task force and claimed to be a whistleblower has this big shindig. And people are talking about going and people are reaching out to me. I'm like, I'm not going anywhere near that. That is CIA, CI and CIA central. You guys are crazy doing it. And you know, people had known my background, knew I had my masters. I was trying to shop my resume to get a better job, but uh, I don't go to it. And a couple of people start bashing the UFO community. And I post a response in there and I say, look, my man, you really think Marco Rubio,
37:02 Speaker 02 who wants to be president, is going to put his name to something unless he knows there's truth there? And immediately I start getting private messages from people, high ranking people overseas, like special ops, officers, like point on my man, like you know exactly what's up. And we form this small little group and we're sending information to each other. That's allowed legally to be shared and uh, a group pops up and the same individual that had this get together makes a declaration. That the people who worked in the legacy program, their lives were in danger. And you know my background, you know, I did for a living. You know what was done to me. You know my feelings about all of this.
37:47 Speaker 02 And for the next hour after he made that declaration, I checked in with. People who said they were part of the task force and they said, we do believe that is accurate. And I berated the individual who made that statement for over an hour and said, do not lie to me about this. I know you're lying about other things. I, I was adamant because I knew I was going to have to come forward as a whistleblower and I. No offense to Arrow. I think Arrow is doing the job they are told to do. And I understand that you put eighteen, twenty years in the government. You want your pension, you have a good house, you have kids and you know how dangerous the outside is. But they're not doing the job the American constitution demands of them.
38:25 George Knapp? Would you say there are a difference between the U I P task force and Arrow? I mean, that the U I P task force was had different motivations and.
38:34 Speaker 02 In my limited interaction with the task force since it's been disbanded, yes. In my limited and the, and again, I don't want to bash Arrow. I think there's a lot of great people at Arrow. I think they are doing what is best for them in their careers, not what's best for this subject and humanity and the constitution.
38:51 George Knapp? Is it a mistake for you to have gone on to that space and engage with people? You don't exactly know who they are. Do you know that some of them are full of shit?
38:59 Speaker 02 I.
39:02 Speaker 02 I won't know until this is all over. I, because of the decisions I made after everything I had been through and.
39:11 Speaker 02 Looking out for people who were interested in this while also keeping my eye on it to see where this was going.
39:18 Speaker 02 If I help keep, keep people safe or if three years from now, they actually do a real disclosure, then yeah, it was a good decision.
39:24 George Knapp? This space thing that we're talking about, is there any uh, security protection for it? Is it in any way on a platform that's not available to general public?
39:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, you have to have the proper clearances and.
39:35 George Knapp? You're engaging with other whistleblowers insiders that you think are.
39:39 Speaker 02 I'm sure there were other insiders and whistleblowers because there are things that I came across that. I had made comments about and the moment that I had pointed it out, those people disappeared and that information was pulled.
39:51 George Knapp? You know that some of the information is right, some of it not so dependable or reliable. You're not spilling any beans there. You kind of give people a nudge in the right direction or something.
40:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, I, I mean, mainly what I stuck to was, I stuck to what I experienced at Langley.
40:10 George Knapp? Oh, you did tell all this.
40:11 Speaker 02 I, I talked about Langley and then I talked about a little bit about odd things that had happened in my life. Um, and it was in part because I was very concerned that people were being given false information purposefully. And I was also very concerned that people who were interested in this subject and had experiences of their own were about to put themselves in grave danger, like grave danger. Anyway, his name got, his name was discussed on a UFO, UAP, small time podcast.
40:49 Speaker 02 And that individual you talk about, uh, through a shit fit, excuse my language. Um, and they started making accusations that were not true. Friends of mine were given documents to sign to try and have that individual who was on that podcast job revoked, insider threat, the whole nonsense. You know, I got tangled up in it because there were things that I was pointing out that were intelligence products that were not real. And somehow those intelligence products were leaked on the Twitter. And I had just dropped a message like, anybody find this weird that this product that just came out today
41:31 Speaker 02 is being discussed by debunkers two days prior? All of a sudden that individual is threatening me. How dare you? Don't make those accusations. And I'm like, I work for this agency. I know what the product is. There's no way you're making that claim. And there's no way what their assessment is, is valid. It's insane. Long story short, uh, everything got kaput because of.
41:55 Speaker 02 I don't know the true reason why. I know that they had a hand in it.
42:00 George Knapp? Somebody took control of that discussion group.
42:02 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
42:03 George Knapp? Who seemed to be motives that might be counterintelligence kind of a thing or?
42:08 Speaker 02 Oh, I'm sure. And I can, I, I'm, I'm positive of this as well. There are people in there that are so anti UFO, UAP, that come from very interesting agencies and very interesting locations. And the comments that they put in that chat room somehow are reflected by people on Twitter right now, like verbatim, like I go into work and I see statement and I come out of work and on Twitter is same statement, just saying a little odd.
42:33 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, so there's a direct mirror of on, inside the intelligence community in a classified realm. And those statements are then echoed onto X.
42:42 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
42:43 Jeremy Corbell? Within the same day.
42:44 Speaker 02 Twenty-four, forty-eight hours, but whatever they're claiming up in there, their little argument.
42:48 Jeremy Corbell? To influence the public de- debate on UAP.
42:52 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
42:52 Jeremy Corbell? So there, there is a direct line of intelligence community interaction on X.
42:58 Speaker 02 And public perception, yeah.
43:00 Jeremy Corbell? And public perception.
43:00 Speaker 02 Now, whether or not those people are paid, I, I can.
43:03 Jeremy Corbell? Doesn't matter if people get paid. There's a lot of motivation.
43:05 Speaker 02 One hundred percent. That's what I'm saying. But I know that that is being done.
43:09 Jeremy Corbell? Seen it a bunch more lately.
43:10 George Knapp? So you engage with this group, you see some problems that have developed. What's the next step for you? The decision to share it with official agencies or?
43:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, here we go. So, uh, that same individual, the gentleman, um, he makes a claim that people's lives are in danger. I have been through hell and back. I am trying to keep my head above water. There are friends of mine that are engaging with this individual. And I'm trying to warn them politely, hey, just be aware, this isn't exactly true and people are now slowly, people who are very intelligent, smart people are very quickly realizing that I know what I'm talking about. And that individual makes a statement that people's lives are in danger. At the same time that statement is made, an individual that I knew that was in the legacy program lost their job for proprietary information sharing.
44:03 Speaker 02 I did not want to go to Arrow first because I know that this is all true. I know there's a program, I know there are entities, I know it. I am, I have experienced it, it is what it is. And I contact that individual, berate them for an hour, and then finally I say, alright, I have to take your word for it, I can't let anybody die. That was my promise to the people I knew in the legacy program, if they died, that I would come forward. I don't want them to die, so I come forward and I go to Congress. First thing I do is I call, I get connected to Senate staffers and they are asking me questions and I tell them I have witnessed a triangle at Langley Air Force Base, but I have direct in-depth knowledge of a hell of a lot more.
44:47 Speaker 02 And I am not comfortable sharing that over the phone, and as long as I am legally allowed to come to you, I will be there as soon as you will let me. And I go into meet with staffers.
44:58 Jeremy Corbell? We know who you testified to and it's not, you know, it's somebody who's high, has a high responsibility when it comes to this subject as far as intake and protecting whistleblowers. And when that person was in position, which they're not anymore, they did a great job.
45:12 Speaker 02 They did, I wish nothing but the best for them. I loved those people, all of them. It upsets me and I had suspicions because I, again, have been through what I've been through and I can kind of recognize when people are being toyed with, that towards the tail end, they were definitely being played with. And that was my concern and I think they recognized I knew and they tried to alleviate it on me, but I wish nothing but the best for them. You told them pretty much everything or did you hold some of it back? I held a lot back. I had gone in, they had scheduled my meeting, there were four of them in the room.
45:48 Jeremy Corbell? You gave them program names, locations, the nature of the propulsion systems, everything.
45:54 Speaker 02 I gave them my direct knowledge of the triangle, my direct knowledge of that entire event, and then...
46:03 Speaker 02 Guaranteed factual, no argument about it. A legacy program in detail with technology integration, how it works, where it's at, the whole kit and caboodle.
46:17 Jeremy Corbell? So they know.
46:17 George Knapp? What's the reaction? How did they react? Seriously, or are they?
46:21 Speaker 02 Well, I, my two favorite moments is, uh, the one gentleman that we know, was absolutely excited and he was very much like, it's like, okay, let me hear more, let me hear more. There's another one that is public now, who I don't think he really wanted to believe it and then made some comments here and there. And then towards the tail end, I had dropped two magic words. And when those two magic words dropped, I will never forget it. As soon as those two words dropped, that individual's mouth hit the floor. He threw his hands in his hair, looked at me, literally looked down at the paper. He was writing notes on and exasperated an agency name and was just like staring off into space. Like what the hell am I supposed to do now?
47:06 Jeremy Corbell? Was it a program name?
47:08 Speaker 02 Yes.
47:09 Jeremy Corbell? Two word program name?
47:10 Speaker 02 Yep.
47:10 George Knapp? Something you should not know. Something you should not know.
47:14 Speaker 02 Probably, but at this point it is what it is.
47:17 George Knapp? But that they, based on their reaction, they know.
47:19 Speaker 02 One hundred percent. And this goes back to Arrow, because after that, I'd go to Arrow. But, um, the questions they were asking me, they knew enough. So like when you ask questions,
47:32 Speaker 02 if you ask certain questions in a certain order, you as the person being asked can figure out you know information already. So during that questioning, the questions they were asking and the things they were saying, I actually, because I didn't want them to think they were leading me on, I would actually tell them, I will answer that in a moment, please do not ask that yet, because you could technically be leading me. Like I'm doing that while I'm briefing Senate staff and then I go over to House and I expose a hell of a lot more in House staff, which was not UFO related, but serious crimes. I go to Senate, I drop the information on them. Uh, they, in my impression, quickly realize I know a heck of a lot of very, very, very important information.
48:16 Speaker 02 And at that point, there was a conversation that I overheard where they were talking about whether or not to bring me to house side due to safety concerns. That was literally it.
48:25 George Knapp? And they were worried for you.
48:27 Speaker 02 They were, yes. Um, they had asked me, did I feel in danger? And I did not want to tell them about everything else I'm telling you now because it sounds so insane. I don't want to come across as insane, but it's all true.
48:39 George Knapp? Was this in a skiff?
48:40 Speaker 02 It was. It was in a skiff. Uh, no, at some, I understand, no recordings.
48:44 George Knapp? Did they say, hey, we're gonna have you come back? They're talking about, would you go see the house?
48:48 Speaker 02 No, that they brought me in. They said, did you go to Arrow? I said, I have no way to contact Arrow and I want to talk with you guys first before I go to Arrow because I have concerns with Arrow, knowing that they are not representing this issue fully. So I go through the Senate staff. They have the conversation about bringing me to House. There is a gentleman in the House that they decided to bring me to who, what I was informed of was he didn't really necessarily believe in all this, but he took safety seriously. I was brought to the house side where I briefed a house staffer. Um, and then we got into a heck of a lot of other non-UFO things that are serious crimes that I was witness to. People that American citizens would be furious if they found out we're in positions they were in.
49:33 George Knapp? Corruption?
49:34 Speaker 02 Corruption, sexual harassment, people getting taxpayer funds that should have been dishonorably thrown out of the military, the whole nine. Um, and I told them, I told that individual and another who was present in the room that day about other things that are semi-related to this. And I told the individuals, I said, check all of it. I guarantee it's all true. And, uh, three weeks later, I get a phone call and they said, we want you to go to Arrow as soon as possible. Here's their email address. And I said, verbatim, is it what the country needs? Yes. Do I go into everything and am I protected? Yes. And I said, all right, let's do it. So I testified to Senate and House staff members.
50:19 Speaker 02 I, I was told I shouldn't use testify. I informed Senate and House staffers on March 3rd. I went to Arrow either March 27th or March 28th of 2023. And I went to Arrow, um, and went through that whole process with them, um.
50:38 Speaker 02 The gentleman I met with, uh, one was a DOD officer, the other was an FBI agent. They were pleasant. Um, I think they were
50:50 Speaker 02 quite shocked of the information I gave them and things that were currently happening and how I could tie it to legacy programs and certain technologies and capabilities. Um, but due to my severe concern for the protection of people, I did not want to disclose certain information and they wanted that information. I told them I wouldn't do it. Because I believed then that if that information was shared with Arrow, those individuals would be targeted. And then that became its whole issue later on when I got my classified Arrow MFR.
51:29 George Knapp? MFR?
51:30 Speaker 02 Memorandum for Record. So it is what Arrow is supposed to give to Arrow witnesses, usually unclassified. They classified mine and sent it to my government email address, uh, where I had to print it off in front of the entire office.
51:46 Speaker 02 I had to edit it first because there were mistakes in it, which I was told I needed to correct those mistakes. And those mistakes I was concerned would reveal information I did not want to share. So I had to make the corrections. My Arrow MFR clearly was targeting a specific staffer. I made a note to make sure that they were misrepresenting the staffer's intention and information that was discussed.
52:12 Jeremy Corbell? Basically, this MFR was a fishing expedition by Arrow to try to pin something on somebody that he testified to that we know, to try to make it look like they were doing something untoward, right?
52:23 George Knapp? So, yeah, they had an agenda for listening to your testimony. It wasn't really about UFOs, UAP. It was to, what can we use this for?
52:30 Jeremy Corbell? Probably both.
52:30 Speaker 02 You know, this is my opinion. I think that the two gentlemen I testified to are great Americans. I think they actually care. I think that this came from higher up. I think
52:42 Speaker 02 I had conversations with.
52:47 Speaker 02 The people, at least one of them that I testified to, I think is a good person who understands a hell of a lot more. And I think that what they did to me came from on high.
52:57 George Knapp? So they were listening to your story, they were, god damn, they were affected by what you were telling them.
53:02 Speaker 02 Oh yeah, they were. And I was able to draw connections for them that clearly they had no idea that that was happening.
53:08 George Knapp? Is this under oath?
53:09 Speaker 02 Um.
53:10 George Knapp? Or you had to sign something?
53:12 Speaker 02 I told them, I did have to sign my MFR, yes. So I did sign that. And that information was loosely in there. But technically, I was not under oath. Again, something that these attorneys that are in this program made sure to tell me that that was not under oath. But I did sign an MFR legally binding.
53:31 George Knapp? And subsequently, have you learned there are limitations on what you told them? Is there limits on who else you can tell the same stuff to, or anything like that?
53:38 Speaker 02 I have no idea. So, no idea. And we're getting right into the IG.
53:43 George Knapp? Okay.
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54:40 Speaker 02 So go to Arrow into March, give them most of the information, what they need to know to know that this is very real, this is happening, that people are being affected, that there are issues. Um.
54:57 Speaker 02 And about that summer, and I remember the day, it was the day that Donald Trump got indicted in Georgia, the Gang of Eight was called into an emergency meeting, and the only reason why I remember it, and I wish I knew the date, but that day is the day that I made all the edits, printed off my MFR, signed it, and went in front of my entire office, re-scanned it back into my machine, and emailed it back to Arrow, and that morning, the Gang of Eight was called into an emergency meeting about three hours after I sent it back to Arrow, and that was the day Donald Trump was indicted. Not saying they're correlated, I just know it was that day.
55:34 Jeremy Corbell? Right.
55:35 Speaker 02 Um, so from there, I'm like, alright, well, they have my info, let's see what happens, and, uh, you know, during this time, I've been asked once or twice by people of importance, whether or not I would testify to Congress under oath on this, and I said without hesitation, yes, like, 100%, yes.
55:54 Jeremy Corbell? You testified to the operational UAP that you had direct, close proximity to, as well as the other aspect of what you came to understand about the legacy program, the reverse engineering, where it's housed, the power source, what it looks like, including... Redacted.
56:14 Speaker 02 I would testify to anything and everything of importance to our congressional, to Congress, to the legislative branch. I, I've said it-
56:22 Jeremy Corbell? If they should have oversight.
56:23 Speaker 02 100%, and having been the victim of crimes, and having been through this whole thing, and being a believer in the Constitution, that this is all criminal, in my opinion.
56:34 Jeremy Corbell? They say they want whistleblowers, they say they want people who haven't come public yet for this next hearing, that's what they've said.
56:40 Speaker 02 I know.
56:40 Jeremy Corbell? This is probably when, or this comes out, will be after that, but that's what they said they want. You have been nominated to Congress.
56:47 Speaker 02 I have.
56:48 George Knapp? And you had additional conversations with them, with staff, regarding the hearing that's coming?
56:53 Jeremy Corbell? He did all pre-vetting, he went through the whole process. Um, I'm just curious why, um, immediately, if you, if you want whistleblowers to talk, this is their chance. Dylan would be a great chance, just like Matthew Brown, who you know and are friends with, you know, it's nice to hear about Immaculate Constellation and have that document put on congressional record, but it's different than if they get to hear from him. He'd be my first pick with you for a hearing, if I wanted real whistleblowers.
57:19 Speaker 02 I appreciate it. I tend to agree if you're not gonna bring home or bring out legacy guys, but knowing what they did to me for being an experiencer and having indirect exposure, I can only imagine what they're going through.
57:31 Jeremy Corbell? Maybe there's a roadblock. Maybe what you have to say is something that they don't want out, even with the task force.
57:37 Speaker 02 Well, I tend to agree, and we haven't even got to the ICIG issue.
57:40 Jeremy Corbell? So tell us about ICIG. Tell me about that.
57:43 Speaker 02 All right. So that summer, I send off my Arrow MFR. I've been asked if I would testify under oath. I say yes, and all of a sudden, I hear there's gonna be a UFO hearing. I have no idea who's gonna be there, and all of a sudden, Dave Grush is on my computer screen at work, and I'm like, oh, wow, okay. And Dave is saying things like administrative terrorism and a certain agency and certain things, and I am laughing to myself in the office. I'm like, that's me. Like, been there, done that, know that story, know this. Um, and Dave says he has 40 witnesses, and Dave says he filed the IG complaint. And I'm like, all right, let's go. Dave did it. Maybe they're gonna actually do it.
58:26 Speaker 02 Maybe you're gonna call all of us in here and do a full legislative hearing, House and Senate, both chambers. Let's hammer this out, like 1970 CIA style. We're reeling you guys back in.
58:38 George Knapp? Do you assume you're one of the 40 witnesses he's talking about?
58:41 Speaker 02 At that time, I did, but I came to find out I wasn't.
58:44 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah, but you never testified to David Grush prior to-
58:47 Speaker 02 100%.
58:48 Jeremy Corbell? You did not.
58:48 Speaker 02 I did not, no.
58:49 Jeremy Corbell? Right. So you would not be one of those.
58:51 Speaker 02 And that goes as to why I went to the IG. So I, I thought so because I had been through, at that point, the only process I knew, which was talk to Congress, talk to Arrow. I didn't know there was this whole side. Again, I'm like hiding out in my little bunker at work, like I am staying away from all this, and I only peek my head out to like, let people know. You should probably pay attention to this, but also you are getting into some really dangerous territory. So I get a phone call after Dave testifies and they notify me, hey Dylan, we want you to go to the IG. And I said, all right, what about, they're like, you know, this stuff.
59:28 George Knapp? They, me, who? Congress?
59:30 Speaker 02 A staffer and Dave and an attorney that you guys are aware of. I don't know if I can say their name, but an attorney you guys are aware of.
59:38 Jeremy Corbell? I, I, I think just, yeah, that's good.
59:40 Speaker 02 All right. Um, and they're like, go to the IG. And I said, am I safe? Is it what the country needs? Yes, yes. I said, all right, let's make it happen. And I go to the IG. Um, that was in, I want to say September, October. I actually have the date for you guys if you need it. Um, but I went there in 2023, late summer, early fall of 2023. And I go through the IG process. And to be honest with you, out of everything, I really feel like the IG process was the worst. I think the people at Arrow genuinely cared, but my opinion going through the IG and the questions they asked me, the things that were said to me made me feel like that was a fishing expedition.
1:00:25 Speaker 02 And the only thing they cared about was finding out how much I actually knew.
1:00:30 Jeremy Corbell? Wow. That is highly disappointing.
1:00:33 Speaker 02 It was very disappointing being in that room with the conversation and statements that were being made to me. Like when somebody's redacted, asking you a question in the IG, uh, government employee cuts them off and says, you don't ask him that question and then looks at me and tells me, you don't answer that question? Yeah. Whenever you, when they ask you, what do you want out of this? And verbatim, direct quote on film, by all means, go get the, uh, recording, because they said they recorded it. But, uh, they said, what do you want out of this? And I said, I want to look Congress in the eyes. Tell them the truth under oath. So when I die, I can answer for this and know I did my job. And the response was, as far as we're concerned, you already did that and you're not doing it again. So.
1:01:15 George Knapp? Is this the actual inspector general or?
1:01:17 Speaker 02 The ICIG. Yes. I have his card at my house.
1:01:22 George Knapp? You went through the whole thing. I went through the whole thing. Who else is there?
1:01:24 Speaker 00 Redacted.
1:01:25 Speaker 02 So ICIG, Assistant Director, Director.
1:01:28 Speaker 00 Redacted.
1:01:29 Speaker 02 Attorney on my right.
1:01:30 Jeremy Corbell? So you try to do this right. You go to ICIG and you literally feel like that they are just trying to pump you to figure out how much you know, how dangerous you are to the legacy program.
1:01:41 Speaker 02 In my opinion, looking back on this, yes, because the way they ask questions, the statements they made to each other, the statements they made to me, 100% seemed like they wanted to find out how much I knew. And at the end of this, which you're aware of the conversation I had with the attorney, it was, "You are credible, not urgent. Go disappear in the winds. Leave this all behind. Shut up. Do not do anything. You're in time." Everything you said, which goes back to what we talked, I mean, I talked about my childhood in there. I was told everything I talked about in that room now is up for executive review. And I brought up to the attorney, "I talked about my childhood. Is that now up for it? I talked about unclassified information readily available on the internet."
1:02:26 Speaker 02 And they said, "Dylan, every single thing you talked about is now subject to executive review. Do not go outside of those bounds."
1:02:32 George Knapp? Your whole life?
1:02:33 Speaker 02 Pretty damn much.
1:02:34 Jeremy Corbell? It's like a great way to lock somebody down if you want to kind of intake their whole whistleblower story, what they know, and then say, "Now that you've testified to ICIG, you have to walk away."
1:02:46 George Knapp? Well, you realize they say that and that this has been an essential waste of time that you walked into sort of a trap. I mean, I can imagine how depressing it would be.
1:02:57 Speaker 02 Depressing? It pissed me off because I was already blacklisted from the IC. And I had told the attorney that. I told the IG that. Like, I already know that there are things that are in place for me getting jobs, working in this field that years back are in play. And it's happened to me since I got onto the IG, which goes back to retaliation. Like, technically, I'm still being retaliated against.
1:03:21 George Knapp? Inspector General's office is there to hear about wrongdoing and things that shouldn't be happening in the agencies that it oversees.
1:03:29 Speaker 02 I, you would think, but this is now me being blackpilled. And there's a joke amongst all the military guys, which is, "The JAG isn't for you. The JAG is for the DOD. The IG isn't for us. The IG is for the government." And that's the way I feel now.
1:03:44 George Knapp? Did you share this with the attorney who had been advising you about seeing these guys? Who? We're not saying who it is, but who?
1:03:51 Jeremy Corbell? I think with the client, I just think you're not supposed to do that. It's not like a big secret. I'm just trying to be respectful.
1:03:58 Speaker 02 I I made it, I made it aware to them that the statement that he had made to me was a grave concern. It made no sense. And I had asked, how do I do Docter? Because I do not trust this process at all anymore. And basically from that point, I was completely shut out for over a year, year and a half.
1:04:21 Jeremy Corbell? I think lawyers are, try to protect their clients. You know, I don't think it's nefarious. I think that they're just trying to do or guide their client in what's best for their well being.
1:04:31 George Knapp? Yeah, well, especially somebody who has been around and knows
1:04:34 Jeremy Corbell? Knows
1:04:35 George Knapp? what could happen.
1:04:35 Jeremy Corbell? Stuff, yeah. That's unfortunate.
1:04:39 Speaker 02 Don't disagree. So, you know, I go back to work. I knew I was going to lose my job in the summer of 2024. And I started to ask questions. How do I do Docter? Because I'm losing my job. I know I'm losing my job. I know I'm going to have a pain trying to get a new job in the government. Nobody would really help me. And I'm trying to figure it out. I'm asking questions. I'm asking attorneys in this field. How do I file for Docter? I want somebody's name next to it. What do I need to do? No help.
1:05:11 George Knapp? You see what's on social media, the UFO world and their experts who are very, very brave on X and giving advice to people like you. Just go forward, tell what you, you know, they wouldn't dare prosecute you or mess with you. I mean, they don't have to prosecute you to mess with you. There's all kinds of things that have happened to you, to Grush, to others. You know?
1:05:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, well, I mean, the federal government has 300,000 attorneys on payroll and that's just bureaucrats. That's not private contractors. Everything that's said and done is reviewed by attorneys. Everything that's brought forward publicly is reviewed by attorneys. But also, you know, the average American, I believe, one of the stats I heard was commits two or three felonies a day. I mean, they can nab you. I mean, honestly, they can nab you for whatever. And this goes back to even me and my job, which I am so overly paranoid of giving them even an inch. Like, oh, you made a security violation. Bye bye, Dylan. Oh, you accidentally sold a stuffed animal for $5 at a garage sale. Tax fraud. Like, I don't, to be honest with you, I don't even own stock. I will not buy stock in any company that I know has this technology,
1:06:19 Speaker 02 because I don't want them to come after me for insider trading. Like, that's how, seriously, that's how paranoid I am with them. So.
1:06:27 Jeremy Corbell? Well, because you felt the boot on your neck through all the experiences you've had after having this, these exposures.
1:06:33 Speaker 02 100%. And then it gets into too, is like, all these people saying, oh, come forward, you'll be a hero. There's money, there's book deals. And it's like, you guys have no idea. Most of us are struggling to get by right now. One guy's lost a house, another one's not going to make rent next month. I pulled my 401k to keep a roof over my head. I had to save up money for two years whenever I began this process because I had a feeling, which turned out to be right, I'm going to be out. And, and here we are where, oh, Congress, bring whistleblowers forward. Oh, we're going to drain the swamp, deep state. Oh, we're going to do XYZ.
1:07:09 Speaker 02 You have literal laws in place with the SEC over what every single whistleblower has done. We qualify for it. It's not our problem. The DOJ doesn't want to prosecute. That's on them. We met our obligation. And if they're not going to do it, what else are we supposed to do?
1:07:26 Jeremy Corbell? Right. There's no safety net. You guys throw away your professional careers, but you're also being pressured in a lot of ways to get out. But you basically throw that away to be able to do what you feel is the right thing. Same with, with Matthew Brown, same with you, same with a bunch of unnamed people publicly who have been through some of this process. And I guess it's important for our audience to know, there really is no safety net. It's like you have to, you're out on your, your own. Everybody's offering you these whistleblower protections. What, what good are they? David Grush had whistleblower protections through the ICIG, and, and still yet, they were unable. And I saw the pressures on him. I saw when he was tested. That there was an intelligence agency if he said the one wrong word.
1:08:08 Speaker 02 Yep.
1:08:08 Jeremy Corbell? And and mess just slipped up just a little bit in his language. That's why Chuck McCullough was behind him during that. They were ready to prosecute internally. No one ever hear about this publicly, but I know it as a fact. I saw it happen that they were trying to do that. So you think about all these things and the pressure's really on like, what is the benefit for people to come forward? There really isn't a benefit. But the question is, why do you do it still?
1:08:31 Speaker 02 Well, a couple of things. Uh, you are absolutely correct. And this goes back to they will nitpick every single thing. If, and that is why I'm I've been so overly cautious. And at this point, which we'll get into, I'm sure. This is coming, but for example.
1:08:47 Speaker 02 I go in, I lose my job in the summer of 2024, September 30 is new fiscal year, October 1. And I go in for a polygraph for a certain agency and it's a normal CI polygraph and it happens to be.
1:08:58 Jeremy Corbell? Redacted.
1:09:00 Speaker 02 And it's a CI poly. It's not full scope. This is, do you talk to Russia? Are you selling secrets? I don't even have a passport. I've been too poor to even take a vacation. I mean, I'm here and this has been the first vacation I've had in 12 years.
1:09:12 Jeremy Corbell? Coming to see us? Oh, we're sorry.
1:09:14 Speaker 02 I mean.
1:09:15 Jeremy Corbell? Could have been something better.
1:09:16 Speaker 02 But the the irony is, is that, oh, well, we're going to protect whistleblowers. We're here for retaliation. We're here for XYZ. Well, I go into a CI polygraph and the point of a polygraph is to tell the truth. In my polygraph, I'm asked, what don't you want to talk about? And I make it clear. I don't want to talk about my IG complaint. And obviously you're being filmed on a polygraph and this person on the computer and they're typing back and forth and I drop that I have an IG complaint in. You're like, what? It's like, yeah. You're like, what's the status? I was like, I have no idea. I don't know anything. I'm basically out here in the dark for almost a year now. He gets on his computer and he's like, I'll be back. He comes back in and he laughs and he says the name of the IG and then he goes. What was the nature of your complaint? What are the details? And I was like, you can't ask me that. It's like, you don't have need to know. What are you doing?
1:10:01 Jeremy Corbell? Right.
1:10:02 Speaker 02 And my point is, is, is that retaliation? Because I didn't pass the polygraph. I didn't fail. But I'm not, I'm not a counterintelligence risk. So what?
1:10:11 Jeremy Corbell? Right. The retaliation comes in all these myriad of forms. If you want to see it like that, they should not be asking you that question.
1:10:18 Speaker 02 100%.
1:10:19 Jeremy Corbell? I C I G complaint is supposed to be confidential and yeah, that's um.
1:10:23 Speaker 02 And, and this goes right back to criminality and playing a game and knowing what you can get away with and how to say things to get away with it. That's all it is.
1:10:32 George Knapp? You're pretty sure that there's surveillance, um, phones tapped, things of that sort. They're watching your computer. Um, we saw it. We, we saw it, the three of us.
1:10:42 Jeremy Corbell? Personally, we experienced that on you.
1:10:44 George Knapp? Somebody following you.
1:10:45 Speaker 02 To be honest with you, George, in my opinion, I, I have just assumed, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm right on this, that that was mainly for you guys because I've been operating at a point to where it's like. Pretty much try me. I, I don't really have much to lose.
1:11:03 Jeremy Corbell? They definitely wanted it to be known. It was not a private meeting between all of us. I had never experienced it to that extent before, but the two times, you know, first time I ever met with Dylan, um. A similar experience, something happened, followed, uh, kind of Dylan after that. Hard to prove that shit, but I'm glad the three of us got to see it that one time. Yeah, that's annoying.
1:11:26 George Knapp? Were there points in the last few years that you were really encouraged? Man, at last something's happening. New York Times story, December 2017. There's this program called A-Tip, which I'm sure you hadn't heard about, whether it's a program or not. And then All Sap pops up in 2018 and we know about these documents and investigations and. U A P task force gets created even before Congress officially did it. It, you could, you could be encouraged. That sounds like it's heading in the right direction. And then it seems like all of those get swatted down.
1:11:57 Speaker 02 I had reservations through all of it. Uh, for me personally, Dave testifying under oath. And then me going to the I G were the only two moments that I have faith that this was on the right track. Since then, it has been a complete joke.
1:12:11 George Knapp? Are you concerned about your life now or it's out? I mean, things that you have shared, uh, even though it's in confidence, it's, it's probably known.
1:12:20 Speaker 02 I, I thought, well.
1:12:23 Speaker 02 I think the powers that be have known that I made certain assurances seven years ago in 2018 when I had all those events take place, losing my job, car accident, unemployment, the VA issues. They've been, they've been paying attention for a while and I made sure even back then that certain assurances were in place. I think at this point.
1:12:47 George Knapp? Where's your bound, doesn't it?
1:12:49 Speaker 02 It's depressing. I mean, you know, I told, you're aware, I married my wife one month before I became a whistleblower. My entire marriage has been nothing but this nonsense.
1:12:57 George Knapp? Is she okay? Is she okay with this?
1:13:00 Speaker 02 I doubt, no. I, I mean, she, she knows it's true. She knows that this has been my entire government career. She knows what agencies have done to me. She knows what I've been through. I mean, it's a joke with her and I where I have a master's degree, 15 years of experience. She's a very intelligent woman, but she does not meet those qualifications and she was making something like $40,000 more a year than I was. And it's like, you get to a point to where it's like, going full circle, you have nothing left to lose.
1:13:33 George Knapp? This may be too personal, but did she ever say, just walk away from this shit? Just walk away.
1:13:38 Speaker 02 Well, I think that's why I'm here now, is I have done everything I possibly can and people that we know had told me, Dylan, walk away from it. And I have done everything in my power to try, except for this. So now this is it.
1:13:52 Jeremy Corbell? So this is the, the kind of, so I was gonna ask you, like, this is the coup de grâce, like, if you don't testify, it's a very bizarre choice that they would have made. But if you don't, then, then why are we doing this? Like, what do you hope, you know, to get out of this? I don't mean to sound like the I C I G here, but what do you hope to get out of this? But I mean, my, my point is just that it doesn't do anybody any favors. We know that from Matthew Brown, like, he threw down, he did his best. It didn't change his life. So why, why testify like this to the American public, to George and to me? We've been talking privately for so long. Why now? Why go public?
1:14:32 Speaker 02 You have a dramatic change in the approach of disclosure. If our government is not going to help do it for our own nation, then you need to bring in different tools and assets. And I'm coming this as a victim of crimes. I'm coming this as somebody who went through the entire process. I'm coming to this with proof that has been given in closed doors. That has been proven and classified is 100% true. I'm coming at this now and I'm hoping that veterans, the special forces community, I'm hoping that other whistleblower attorneys, I'm hoping that average Joe down the street right now is gonna come across this who fought in Iraq and I may have even helped to bring him home. He's gonna hear this and say, you don't do this shit.
1:15:16 Jeremy Corbell? Not to Dylan, not to anybody.
1:15:18 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:15:19 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah.
1:15:19 George Knapp? You know, you'll never work in a have a classification again. You'll never work in in that whole national security apparatus. Your whole career has been part of that.
1:15:29 Speaker 02 100%.
1:15:30 George Knapp? What are you gonna do?
1:15:31 Speaker 02 Talked about last night. I have no idea.
1:15:34 Speaker 02 It is what it is. Thank God I saved up enough for me to pay my mortgage for a while. And then I'll probably pull my 401k and then round two, no retirement again, no nothing and.
1:15:44 Jeremy Corbell? So this is this is important to you enough that or you've gotten to that breaking point where you're like, I I know you can't say everything in this interview and I respect that. That's from a a position of patriotism. You understand there's certain things that you've been exposed to that you can't say on camera. But we can talk around it a little bit. So I I guess I'm I'm what I'm asking is even though you know that you can only go this far, but you're putting your face out there, it's worth it to you to to not be able to go back into. I mean, I'm making an assumption you're not ever gonna get another government job again.
1:16:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, unless Dave or somebody convinces our executive branch in Congress to actually let us back in and do this the right way.
1:16:26 Jeremy Corbell? But it's worth it to you as a whistleblower. Why?
1:16:29 Speaker 02 Because what I have provided is true. People have been victimized. People have committed suicide over this.
1:16:36 Jeremy Corbell? Because of the legacy UFO thing.
1:16:37 Speaker 02 100%. And more importantly, because I know what I testified to dramatically changes not just America, but humanity instantly. And yes, it would take time, but you were talking about economics, migration. You were talking about travel. You are talking about mining comets and going to other planets. You are talking about all of this and.
1:17:01 Speaker 02 Wars for resources after my generation just fought those for damn near 20 years are irrelevant. Now, yeah, you're gonna have to deal with human population expansion. You're gonna have to deal with other things in America and our interests aren't aligned with China's interests and Russia's interests, but
1:17:20 Speaker 02 I would rather get ahead of this and have our government be a part of it before it comes out. Because then this is gonna be chaos.
1:17:28 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, they're like, what comes out? Like, what are you talking about? You're talking about disclosure, about UAP, the reality of extraterrestrials or?
1:17:36 Speaker 02 I'm talking about what Carl now would describe as catastrophic disclosure where information that I and others have brought forward
1:17:46 Speaker 02 would be released and believed
1:17:51 Speaker 02 and known to be true by the general public in such a capacity that our government, as we understand it, would never recover.
1:17:57 George Knapp? You think people have committed suicide over this?
1:18:00 Speaker 02 Oh, 100%.
1:18:01 George Knapp? Not a fake suicide that somebody else did to look like a suicide or an actual suicide?
1:18:05 Speaker 02 100%.
1:18:06 George Knapp? Because it make them so depressed and feel so alone.
1:18:09 Speaker 02 Been there, done that, yep.
1:18:11 Jeremy Corbell? Not done that.
1:18:12 Speaker 02 Not done that, but been there, been there with and wanted to, yeah.
1:18:16 George Knapp? You had something put in your head or medicine that made you feel that way?
1:18:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, and then you go through and you're, next thing you know, you're 30 some odd years old by yourself, completely alone. Everything you worked for gone. You have no retirement. You're driving a broken down car that's zip tied, picking up you in a park and you're like, what is my life?
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1:19:31 George Knapp? Let's talk about big picture.
1:19:34 George Knapp? What does it mean? What's this whole story mean? Because, you know, we've been pretty far up the food chain with people who've been at it for a long time, at high levels, high-security clearances, worked in programs. They all have guesses, but I don't know a single one of them that knows for sure what it is.
1:19:50 Speaker 02 I will give my opinion. This is my opinion, knowing what I know for a fact, reading and coming into contact of information that I believe to be true, looking at history and looking at through my perspective. I think what we are dealing with is very, very, very old. I think old humans have written those down in religious stories. I think that it's quite clear that we have been influenced by something else. I think Arrow has been telling the American public the truth, and you have said this on Weaponized on my behalf, which is Arrow's statement, "There is no scientific evidence of extraterrestrials," is 100% technically true.
1:20:33 Speaker 02 You have to have a control to have scientific proof, and extraterrestrial is a very exact statement in word with an exact definition, an entity of another planet.
1:20:48 Speaker 02 These things, whatever they are, are probably what are referred to as gods, or demons, or angels, or jinn, or insert whatever cultural or religious perspective you have. There are probably also extraterrestrials. It's not a one-size-fits-all. And considering, you know, humanity has the same stories across many cultures. A flood, a craft that are in the sky, things that are coming and helping humans.
1:21:23 Speaker 02 And I'm at an advantage and a disadvantage knowing certain information that relates very clearly to things that are around the world that are related to what I know. I don't think that's by pure coincidence or luck. I think that the people that are in these programs know
1:21:46 Speaker 02 the truth to this stuff and they are looking at it through a lens of this is true, this is true, this is true. This has been here for eight thousand years. This has been here for four thousand years. Oh, we dug up this at an archaeological dig in hypothetically Egypt. You know, I mentioned it to you guys last night, uh, Lakatsky in his statement, um, about his faith and what it means to be human and the impact and nothing to fear. You know, Lakatsky and I are both Catholics, but I want to be clear in that
1:22:23 Speaker 02 it's the idea of something greater than us that is here with us and can influence us. And Pasalka talks about this and you get into consciousness and all of these things are so correlated and that's a problem with this subject. And that's why one of the things that I'm a huge proponent of going back to having our government a part of this is you have to set a foundation. Because if you come out and you throw it all out there, people are gonna laugh at you. They're gonna call you crazy. They're gonna do X, Y, and Z. And you have to set a foundation and I understand the UFO fanatics are not gonna light this opinion, but this isn't for you. This is for the public. If you want disclosure, the public has to be a part of it, hence why I'm here, is to hopefully get enough people outside of this subject
1:23:09 Speaker 02 agitated, upset, and come and say, no, we're, we're done with this. My big picture idea is it's been here for a very long time. It goes by many names. It's many different things and it has an influence on all of us.
1:23:24 George Knapp? You know, we don't really know what they look like. You know, they're so advanced to us. Gods, sure, could be that level. They might as well be gods or so far advanced. I don't think they need craft to get here. That's some kind of a bauble. That's something to get us interested. Hey, look at this.
1:23:43 George Knapp? That's why we maybe have so many of them. It'll necessarily crash. That appears to be a crash. Something that's always been here. I'm not entirely positive they have our best interests at heart. Feels like an experiment. They mess with us on a mass scale and individual scale, and I'm not sure we're ever going to understand it.
1:24:02 Speaker 02 I tend to agree with you. I have many thoughts on this, and this is one of the other things I came into knowledge of while at my work at DITRA before I lost my job. When Congress passed the archives legislation where all the agencies were supposed to round up all their documents, I had a wonderful conversation on my last day, and I'm sure it was just coincidental. The person in charge of collecting all of the information from DITRA dealing with extraterrestrials, and as he put it, quote unquote, "little green men", happened to sit next to me at my computer terminal and began pulling all of the documents on my system and the systems in our SCIF.
1:24:40 Speaker 02 Interesting fact for you was that he came into the old atomic energy documents from way back when, and there was intelligence and information in those that
1:24:53 Speaker 02 discussed what you said, which is this has been around with them and that even back then they had a similar outlook that this isn't exactly for our benefit. You know, you get into, and again, I don't want to go too woo. I want to really avoid the woo, but we're going into hypotheticals and I try to keep all options open.
1:25:15 Speaker 02 You're right. They don't theoretically, they don't have to come here. I mean, we're working with Neuralink. We're projecting thoughts. We're doing all of this dreams. You have NT Ultra. You have all of this stuff throughout the history and all of our intelligence agencies never get rid of that capability. They only get better at it and they only get better at hiding it, but
1:25:35 Speaker 02 if somebody's able to put a thought in your head, George, and tell you build this craft. Yeah, you're the one who built it, but the thought came from somebody else. And now you start to get into places that are purely hypothetical and I'm not even saying I believe them. But it's clear there's something to this.
1:25:52 Jeremy Corbell? Like thoughts as intruders from a non-human intelligence. Having humanity do the bidding that they want without direct knowledge that it's being asked by someone else. And we're talking about that, right?
1:26:05 Speaker 02 Theoretically, that's a possibility 100%. I think on Joe Rogan, he mentions like artificial intelligence influencing humans who continue to create artificial intelligence and just round and round.
1:26:15 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah, the metamorphosis philosophy that Rogan talks about, it's really beautiful.
1:26:20 Speaker 02 I mean, I keep all options on the table. What I know is these things are real. They exist. We've had them. Other nations have them. I know that in some way, shape or form, they appear in a physical sense. I know that they have an interest in people and I have a strong belief that they have an interest in certain families, if you want to call them that.
1:26:46 Speaker 02 What does it all mean? I don't know, but what I do know is that
1:26:52 Speaker 02 as a democratic republic and a nation that votes for our elected leaders and leaders that are supposed to provide us information. We're not fulfilling our obligation in our constitution because we're not voting with information. We are lying to ourselves.
1:27:08 George Knapp? What information could be released without causing a freak out? It's hard to imagine anything that a government would confirm that wouldn't lead to 5,000 follow-up questions. But let's say a decision is made by this president or the next one, assuming we have another one.
1:27:26 George Knapp? We're going to release some stuff. We're going to come clean up to a point because we don't want to tell our enemies too much about where we are. But what could you say? We have some technology that we didn't build. It's non-human in origin, as far as we know. There's some other presence here, we're working on it. I don't know how much further you can go.
1:27:46 Speaker 02 I think you can go all the way up to the line of what our current capabilities are in the engineering program and integration program. I think you can go all the way up to that line. I think that that line should be discussed, but I think that is up to our elected representatives to work with Russia and China and other nations that almost certainly have these same technologies and some very well may be further along than us in some capacity. I would hope that similar to atomic weapons, some type of an agreement can be made. I think you can basically disclose everything up to the line of where we are currently at to the public and then that is for our representatives to deal with internationally, geopolitically at the UN. I think that is just for hardware and what these things are.
1:28:31 Speaker 02 I think once that foundation has been set, you can then start to disclose the other things, but what needs to be disclosed immediately is the crimes.
1:28:39 George Knapp? I think there's a, you know, there's a point where you couldn't say too much about them and you don't want to scare the shit out of the public, but you could acknowledge there's something, it's a legitimate mystery and then it opens up the possibility that legitimate mainstream scientists could get into it. Theologians, different kinds of power structures in the world who now know, oh, it's real. It's not, it's not disrespectful. I'm not going to get drummed out of academia for taking this seriously. We can get on with it. Now, maybe that's a way to get to the answers, but I suspect that whoever they are, they're always going to be at least one step ahead of us.
1:29:20 Speaker 02 I tend to agree and, you know, I get the impression that they actually control it, which is conversations we've had as well. I would say one other thing, no, that I would really want to point out, and this goes back to history and our nation and what is very concerning to me is in the past, America would bring the best and brightest forward to do things like this, whether that's computer hacking or work on this tech, creative. I mean, we would hire criminals and get them out of jail to come work for the FBI.
1:29:54 Speaker 02 I have grave concerns that in the day and age of artificial intelligence and academia, we no longer teach critical thinking. And if you really want to understand this, you need to get people that think way outside the box and are creative thinkers and will look at it for what it is and then ask every single question on what that could mean. And I have a very bad feeling we are not doing that.
1:30:19 George Knapp? No, I mean, it's like media, you know, so that was my start is trying to get, I never figured I could figure out the mystery, but the start was trying to get other journalists to be interested. Hey, this is real. This is a real story. You can pursue it. It's honorable. Yeah, you got to separate wheat from chaff. There are crazy people who mix it up, but there's a real story here. The learning curve is so intense. You can't do this in a week. You can't read a book. Okay, now I figured it out. Or in six months, or a year, or five years. It takes a long time. And what, what reporters have time to do that? What members of Congress really have the time to get their heads around it, you know?
1:30:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, and that's, it comes back to me coming forward. Those are crimes. You guys have seen it. They committed crimes against me. Our nation has done nothing about it. Those, those agencies and those companies are still having contracts. They're still making millions of dollars. The VA doctors are still treating other patients. To this day, no one's even sent me an apology. In fact, the only person who even said thank you, and it was a sideways thank you, was the attorney. It's like, thank you for your service to the nation, young man. I, it's depressing.
1:31:27 George Knapp? What do you think's going to happen to you after we release this, assuming that we can?
1:31:31 Speaker 02 Well, I, Jeremy is aware, and we talked about it last night as well. My intent is to hopefully go on my honeymoon finally after all these years. It's been unfair to my wife. It's been unfair to me. I want to disappear. I don't want to even look at the internet. Everybody can go and have their arguments. The truth is the truth, and the truth speaks for this itself. And the truth is the light. If people want disclosure, it's now up to you. Because this lame duck approach of we are going to make promises and we are going to go back on them. And we want to do X, Y, and Z, and you're given everything on a silver platter and no one makes an action on it. To each our own, but everybody's gonna have to answer for it at the end.
1:32:14 Speaker 02 And I'm gonna go and disappear for a while and see how this goes and hope that America comes to my back and to your back and to Matt's back. And everybody who is testifying and has testified because at the end of the day. And this is why I really hope the vets come is you serve your country, your country has done this.
1:32:33 George Knapp? Well, one thing that, you know, I'm not sure that Congress is ever going to be able to get to the bottom of it. I'm encouraged that they're taking it seriously. We know some of these members, you talk to them a lot, Jeremy, and um. Their interest is sincere and they want to get to the bottom, but I mean. They're amateurs compared to the people who have been keeping these secrets and I'm not sure if they'll ever succeed. But one thing they could do is establish some sort of a structure that protects whistleblowers. People who have a story to tell like you that would help them survive economically, give them. A safe, a soft landing spot of financial support that encourages them to tell what they know. Give them legal protections. There are some things that are legal protections.
1:33:17 George Knapp? Don't stop people from breaking into your house or cutting your brake lines or distributing health records that embarrass you. But there has to be some sort of support for people who have information who'd like to come forward but are scared.
1:33:32 Jeremy Corbell? I just want to say like to our viewers, because it's a very difficult interview. Because we want to be able to say, tell it like it is, you know, and just put it all on the table. But you are highly restricted on certain elements of your knowledge of the legacy UAP stuff. Because when you went in to do the right thing and you went to Arrow and you went to the ICIG. They immediately classified and put into a SAP a lot of that UAP. A non-human intelligence information. So our audience only gets to hear you say, I saw something. These are the reprisals against me because I fell into other information, but that information I can't talk about. That's a difficult thing for the audience to have to get.
1:34:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, I 100% understand and agree and maybe I can help them make it a little bit easier. I provided three.
1:34:24 Speaker 02 rudimentary drawings. One of which was unclassified and the other two were immediately thrown into a sap. And the two that were thrown into a sap prove. We are not alone.
1:34:38 Jeremy Corbell? Can you replicate what you saw at least, um, you know, of the, the triangle? Can you replicate for that for us today and just kind of draw that up?
1:34:46 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely.
1:34:47 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, I think that's, that's good, you know, try, so we're doing our best to report. Based upon, um, you know, the testimony you brought to us, what you've done. With, with Congress, what you've done with Arrow, what you've done with the ICIG. Thank you for, for doing that.
1:35:01 Speaker 02 Sure.
1:35:02 Jeremy Corbell? Bringing yourself forward. I hope that your testimony, even though it is limited right now. I hope that it does encourage other people. I really hope I see you up there in Congress.
1:35:12 Speaker 02 You're both.
1:35:13 Jeremy Corbell? With authorization to tell it like it is. And that, and that's the thing, I don't know if, if we're gonna get that for you. But, um, you know, thank you for doing that. Thank you for coming forward and I hope people do support you and other people. I hope that you, your testimony encourages other people to come forward. If this is as you're saying, it's really fucking important.
1:35:31 Speaker 02 It's the most important thing, I think, uh. Of our lifetime and probably the most important thing going forward because. A lot of humanities issues would be solved. But it, that is also the problem is humanity is humanity.
1:35:45 Jeremy Corbell? Do you have a message for anybody out there who has experienced reprisals such as you? Or threats or feel scared to talk? What can you tell people that, that, you know, from your perspective that? Do you have a message for, for anybody that's stuck in this, this kind of situation dealing with MVP stuff?
1:35:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, give me a second because I just choked up again. Um, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm so, no, I'm sorry to them. I'm, I'm so sorry to them. This is a joke. It really is. I'm sorry for everybody who has tried to do the right thing. I'm sorry for all the people that sit at home and they have. No one to talk to, they're isolated, they're lonely and I talked to some of them.
1:36:24 Speaker 02 This country has done a crime against you. And I hope we are all able to find peace. And I hope that you can make your way to people that will help you get your story out.
1:36:41 Speaker 02 It sucks. This really sucks.
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