Love Island’s Simba & Angelista: He Had Options, I Had None

Love Island 2026 finalists Simba and Angelista reveal what really happened in the Love Island villa, from their relationship and the “villain edit” to the moments viewers never saw. The Love Island couple open up about falling in love on the show, exploring other connections, public pressure and Angelista’s experience as a Black woman in the villa. Simba also opens up about growing up with his mother’s motor neurone disease, becoming one of her carers and how that responsibility shaped his ambition, emotions and the man he became. Together, Simba and Angelista revisit the private conversations that brought them closer, the moments that tested their relationship and what it was like falling in love under constant scrutiny. Angelista also speaks candidly about desirability, representation and the pressure she felt knowing Black women were watching her experience unfold. Raw, vulnerable and deeply personal, this is Simba and Angelista revealing the relationship and pressures that existed beyond the Love Island edit. Simba and Angelista, We Need To Talk Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Simba and Angelista here: https://www.instagram.com/simbakudyiwa/ https://www.instagram.com/angelistagundax/ https://www.tiktok.com/@angelistagundax (00:00) Intro (02:07) Why Simba Wanted To Talk (08:21) Did Simba Fall in Love on Love Island? (12:07) Simba's North London Upbringing & Zimbabwean Heritage (14:03) Simba's Mother's Health Condition (23:09) Simba's Parents' Divorce (29:33) How Simba Cares for His Mother (33:39) How Simba Applied for Love Island (36:41) Simba's First Impressions of Angie (40:20) Anthropic Ad (42:09) Angie's First Impressions of Simba (44:01) How Simba & Angie Established a Connection (47:22) The First Test of Their Relationship (52:17) Being a Black Couple on Love Island (54:55) When Simba & Angie Fully Trusted Each Other (58:33) Their Thoughts on Finishing Third (01:01:17) Did Angie Find Love on Love Island? (01:05:17) Angie's Experience as a Black Woman on Love Island (01:12:28) Why Angie Felt She Had Limited Options in the Villa (01:16:20) Diversity in Reality TV (01:19:57) The Positives of Angie's Love Island Experience (01:25:55) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Anthropic - https://www.claude.ai/talk Sync ID: MB01HWZIBVN2A3S Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  I think you can't be in love and not be boyfriend and girlfriend.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  But we're seated here on the couch, candles.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  It's kind of romantic.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  It was like the second or third night, he was like crying in my arms.

• 0:47Speaker 03

  I was getting scared that she was very quickly becoming the only person in here for me.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  When was the first true test of your relationship?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  You okay?

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm good. Sorry, sorry.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  It was a bit of a sticky one.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Everyone keeps saying I need to still explore. At this point, it's only been just over a week. So I was like, maybe if I share a bed with her, then that will make me realize, okay, cool. Which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense, truthfully.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Honestly, it does. I'd wanted to talk to you individually.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  It looked like I was the loyal girl that wouldn't look left or right. If I could, I would have. I was forced to be in a situation just because I had no options.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Well, there's a lot that we have to talk about. Let's talk. We need to talk.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  We need to talk for sure.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Look, pause with me for just a second. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one, or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please, just take a second and click the subscribe button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Let's start with a true check on how do you feel right now?

• 2:29Speaker 03

  I feel good right now. It's a bit surreal, to be honest with you, just because, you know, this morning I did Good Morning Britain. You know, I struggled to sleep at night. I was just, it was a mixture of excitement and nerves. Kind of still feels like a little bit of a dream, truthfully, but overall, right now, emotionally, I'm good. I'm good. I'm happy. Yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  You know, I appreciate all of the transparency, just in that.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  You know? And I knew with you coming in that there are a lot of heavy topics.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  There's a lot, there's a lot.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. That we're going to go through.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  And it's interesting, I even prepare myself emotionally before a guest comes in. And I think what's going to make this conversation so unique is it's not just you.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I want to even talk about how this came about.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Right? Because do you know how this came about?

• 3:23Speaker 03

  A little bit, yes, I know. Yes, I know. But yeah, a little bit, a little bit, yeah.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. So we were in touch.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Right? And then we said, okay, Simba, we want you to come on.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Come on, there's a lot that we have to talk about. Let's talk. Right? We need to talk.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  We need to talk for sure.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Right? And then I got a message from someone that I believe you know.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  I think I know her quite well.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  And her name is Angie.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  Angie, yeah.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  And Angie wrote down some things that she wanted to talk about.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  And when I read it, I said, we need to talk. Like, these are all the topics that I've quite honestly have not had an opportunity to talk to anybody.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  On this podcast.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Wow, yeah.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  And I think she's the perfect person.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  She is, she is the perfect person.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  And so Angie's here as well.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, she is.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Obviously, you two met on Love Island, which it's so interesting. Love Island is fascinating to me because internationally, it's become one of the most popular franchises in the world.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  And continues to be super successful.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Here in the UK, right?

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  So if we just talk about Love Island, or we just stay in that space real quick, it's just, have you watched it back?

• 4:49Speaker 03

  I haven't, I haven't watched, I haven't really watched it back, no.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  And what's the reason why? Because some people come back and immediately binge it.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, indulge.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Why have you not?

• 5:03Speaker 03

  I feel like for me, it probably would be a little bit of a hard watch.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  What do you believe the public most misunderstands about you?

• 5:15Speaker 03

  That's a good question.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  I don't know if it's misunderstanding or just complete lack of understanding from their point. And I don't blame them, because again, you know, they can only take what they see. You know, at the end of the day, I feel like every Love Islander says this, you know, you see an hour of 24 hours. Nothing can really ever prepare you for it, truthfully. And I feel like a lot of the people that only really understand that are people that have been on Love Island, you know, previously, coming off the show, spoken to ex-Islanders and stuff, and they said, oh, you've done really well, and you know, you should be really proud of yourself. And I get why they can say that, because again, they've lived it, they know exactly

• 6:02Speaker 03

  what goes on in terms from an emotional standpoint, you know?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  So what do you believe the public is lacking in their

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Judgment, yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Knowledge or awareness of you?

• 6:14Speaker 03

  I think in terms of me, who I am, you know, who is Simba, I feel like maybe that's the bit that the public don't really know. And, you know, since I've come out of the villa, I've done a few interviews, I've been a bit more open about, you know, Simba, who I am, you know, why I am the way I am, you know, my personal life, my family life. I'm not really even annoyed about it, truthfully, because in a weird way, I feel like it's better this way for me to come out and, you know, speak my truth and be myself and, you know, being able to control my own narrative.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  So I mean, I've been doing reality TV probably since you were born.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Probably, yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  You're a young guy, yeah, I've been doing it for a while.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  In the UK and the US.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  And one thing I've learned, early on in reality TV, I became, I was frustrated.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  I was like, you know what? I do 20 things, but you only portray me as this one thing.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  And I thought it was something against me. But what I realized is that with television, at the end of the day, it's entertainment and it's a story.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  And the story truly has to be as simplified

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  As possible.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  As possible, yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  And when you're dealing with a big cast, lots of contributors.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  It's a lot.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Everyone gets one story, for the most part. Maybe you get two, right? So it's hard to see all the dimensions of someone

• 7:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  On a television show. Nor does an audience even want all of that.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  You know?

• 7:47Speaker 03

  That's very true.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  So if you were then, let's say you got one dimension, then what do you think that one dimension was? How were you depicted?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  I feel like, you know, since I've come out, you know, a lot of my friends will say, ah, you know, you kind of had the villain edit. That's what they call it. I think that's what social media call it, the villain edit. I feel like it's fair to say, I feel like, you know, I kind of agree with it a little bit, in the sense that the things that I did were just magnified, you know, in a way. And it was like, there was so much more going on that maybe, you know, didn't really come to light. But at the same time, it wasn't always bad in there, you know? I managed to, you know, find Angelista. We had like an instant connection, you know, fell in love, made it all the way to the final, finished third, you know, so.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Can I pause on that real quick?

• 8:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  So you truly fell in love in the villa?

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Hand on heart?

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Hand on heart, yeah. Like, she's my person. I found my person.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Okay. Interesting.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  So you two are then what, together?

• 9:06Speaker 03

  So right now, I'm not good with all the terminologies, so, yeah, just bear with me. But. In terms of how I see her, I already see her as, you know, like, this is my girlfriend. I think for me, coming out of the villa, the only reason I didn't wanna make, I could, I could have, there were some days I did wanna make it official in the villa, truthfully, because I was like, you know what? I'm gonna leave here. I know I'm not gonna, I, in terms of having time for any other women on the outside, like, that's just not happening, you know, I, I know in my heart, I know myself very well to the point that, you know, I can kinda tell when, mm, you know, I might come out of here and all the attention, and she was even worried about that a little bit as well, bless her.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  But, you know, I, I was just, I remember having a day with myself in the villa and I was like, nah, you're gonna leave here and, you know, you've got your person, there's nothing better.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  So, you are officially not girlfriend, boyfriend?

• 10:02Speaker 03

  No, officially, yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  But you see her as that and you're going to make it official at some point?

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Okay, that's fair, that's fair. And, and you're in love?

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm in love, yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  I mean, then that's a win.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  It is a win, it is a win.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  And, and that, that actually makes me better understand why everything else, in terms of like, oh, I got the villain art, or the villain edit, or whatever it may be, is secondary to you, because.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Exactly, it's like, you know, I'm just, literally, I can, I can genuinely just push that all aside, you know, I, I thought leaving the villa, because again, I didn't know, I had little, little bits of intel like here and there, you know, from like bombshells, they'd come in and they'd say, oh, you know, you're the bad guy, basically, you're the villain of this series, and they would tell me that. And I think leaving the villa, I was a little bit anxious, I was a little bit nervous in terms of, oh my gosh, like, you know, what's gonna happen? Are people gonna hate me? You know, are people gonna, um, like, just have negative things to say about me? But it's literally been the complete opposite, you know, since I've come out, it's been, it's been amazing, genuinely.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so that's interesting, when some of the bombshells came in, I guess they had been watching.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  They'd been watching, they'd been watching.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  So they told you?

• 11:15Speaker 03

  They told me, but at the end of the day, it's like, I can't really focus, in that, in that moment, I couldn't focus on what they were saying. I couldn't focus on, you know, the public perception, because at the end of the day, you know, in, especially in an environment like Love Island, like, it's so intense. Like, even trying to entertain, um, thoughts of what people might be thinking on the outside is too overwhelming. It's literally just, you know what, this is what's in front of me, I'm in this environment, and I've just gotta deal with it head on, and that was my pure focus.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Wow, all right, well, I tell you what, we're, we're going to unpack all of Love Island.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  Okay, of course.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Like, everything that I could pull out for you, that happened, that the public is not aware of, right? But before we do that, I want to focus on you, if, if I could.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Because I think this is part of the lack of understanding that you talked about, is that we're all multi-dimensional. We all have a history, we all have a journey, you know, that we've gone through, and many people don't know

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  to the extent

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  of what your journey has been.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  So I, I wanna look at it, because even in the research, I was like, wow, I had no idea Simba was dealing with, with half of this, you know? So, so if we can.

• 12:28Speaker 03

  For sure, for sure.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  But you grew up in North London?

• 12:30Speaker 03

  North London, yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  But your parents are both from Zimbabwe?

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Zimbabwe, yeah, yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Okay, all right, so you are then, what, second generation?

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Okay, they were born there?

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were born there, yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  They came here, do you know the circumstances upon which they came here and why they came to the UK?

• 12:49Speaker 03

  So my mom, um, she came, I think my dad came before my mom, but they were both late nineties, they came, um, to the UK. And, um, my dad tells me a lot about, you know, coming here, uh, late nineties, he speaks so profoundly about Tony Blair, my dad loves Tony Blair.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  To the point that he actually, my middle name is Tony, like.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Really? You're named after Tony Blair?

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, Tony Blair, yeah, yeah, my dad loves, loves Tony Blair, you know, when he came to this country, he was, he got straight to, straight to work, really. He was doing loads of jobs, working in McDonald's, um, and my mom, I know less about my mom, I would say, in terms of, you know, when she actually came to this country, and I feel like, I kinda know why maybe I know less about her, I probably know more about my dad, um, from that standpoint. But, um, yeah, they both came here, they, they worked hard, they met each other, I believe, at university, um, and then, yeah, got married two years later, and, yeah, now I'm here.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  And then, now you're here?

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Now I'm here, yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  So, uh, are you an only child?

• 13:52Speaker 03

  No, so I've got a younger brother, uh, I've got a younger brother who, he's four years younger than me, so he's, yeah, he's turned twenty-one. I actually missed his birthday when I was in the villa.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I missed his twenty-first, but, um, yeah.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  I'm sure you got him a gift, though?

• 14:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did, I did, I did, yeah, yeah, I did, I did.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  This is good, this is good. So now you just mentioned something that I have to go back to.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  You said, now I know why I know less about my mother's story.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Why?

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Um, so when I was about nine years old, uh, my mom got diagnosed with motor neuron disease, uh, which is obviously a neurological illness, um, so in terms of the disease itself, um, from just more so like a generic standpoint, the disease itself is a very, uh, it progresses quite rapidly, um, it's very progressive, you know? Um, don't quote me, but I think the prognosis tends to be two years, so, um, it basically leads to, um, loss of voluntary muscle, uh, muscle function, so all the voluntary movements, that means you can do day in, day out, she can't do, uh, because those nerves are damaged.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  It meant that, you know, from, I'd say, literally ten years old, you know, day by day, just starting to deteriorate, and, you know, conversations, certain things, just, she can no longer, she can no longer do, um, definitely from a conversational standpoint, you know? I'm very, I'm such an intrusive guy, like, is intrusive the right word?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Probably curious.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Curious, that's a better word, I'm very, I'm very curious, you know, I always, I love picking my parents' brains, I love learning stuff, you know? And, um, I feel like, yeah, I probably know a bit more about my dad just because we can have those conversations. Whereas my mom, obviously, she can't speak anymore, um, so she has an eye gaze that she communicates via, and, uh, bless her, she'll send me messages. She's got WhatsApp on the eye gaze as well, and, you know, um, she will email me and stuff. But I think definitely when I was younger, I used to feel bad in terms of like just asking her questions, because I knew how much effort she had to go to to actually type things. So my dad would always be like, my go-to if I had like questions and stuff, and even to this day, to be fair, like, he's always, um,

• 16:09Speaker 03

  he, he's always like passing the knowledge to me about like, you know, um, Zimbabwean history, African history, like, you know, his childhood growing up and stuff, and family trees, family roots and stuff.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  He tends to be my go-to when it comes to that kinda stuff.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Well, so, uh, I didn't realize, so, so, so at ten is when your mother was diagnosed?

• 16:29Speaker 03

  That's when she was diagnosed, yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  How old were you when you last had a conversation with your mother?

• 16:38Speaker 03

  I don't think I could even answer, um, maybe nine, there, I'd say maybe even eight, I'm not too sure. In terms of just like an actual

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  It's so far, I don't even remember, yeah, I, I don't even remember.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, now that's profound.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, truthfully, I don't even remember.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  That's profound, especially for a, a, a little boy.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I think that the relationship between, um, a boy and his mother

• 17:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  is incredibly unique, almost like the girl and, and her dad.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad always says he wanted a daughter as well, yeah, yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, same, same here, no disrespect to my sons, but yeah, I, I, always, always wanted, always wanted. So then, at eight, nine, you have your last conversation with your mother. At eight, nine, you probably can't reconcile

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  why, what's happened.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  What's happening, yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  So when you go back to that age, how did that impact you?

• 17:44Speaker 03

  I feel like, um, again, just even trying to recollect these things, it's, it's, it's difficult because it was such a long time ago. Because she, like, her decline, um, like, health-wise was, it was very quick, you know, I think she had an appointment with a neurologist, they did some tests, and by the time the diagnosis came, about maybe six months later, she was already in a wheelchair, you know, um, so, it was, it, it was a lot, definitely from a young age, and I remember at the time, I was just trying to comprehend how,

• 18:20Speaker 03

  I remember this actually, I was in year five, and I had an assembly, um, I went to a Catholic school, and, uh, we, like, reenacted, um, The Stations of the Cross, and I got given the part as Jesus, and I remember my mom saying, uh, she wants to come to my assembly, and at this point, she was in a wheelchair, I'm not too sure she had, had the diagnosis yet, but I definitely didn't know what motor neuron disease was or if she had it. But I remember she was in a wheelchair, and there was a carer there as well, and I remember just, like, just praying she would not come, just purely because, you know, you're nine, nine years old, I'm looking at everyone's parents, and, you know, they're all jumping up and down, and they're clapping, and they're smiling,

• 19:01Speaker 03

  and they're talking, and they're giving them hugs, and it was hard, you know, it was hard for me, and I remember battling my own fears, anxieties around everyone seeing my mom, but also trying to protect her as well, and it's like, protecting her in the sense that I didn't want her to feel that I was, like, ashamed or embarrassed or, you know, because I didn't want that for her, because at the end of the day, she's, she's my mom, you know, I love her regardless. But from a young age, a very young age, I could tell that, you know, it's, it's, it was gonna be hard for me to navigate my emotions, and, and it was gonna be hard for me to, to speak on it as well, and, and it has been for such a long time.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, you know, I, I can feel that, when you told that story.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  I, I, I could see the, the, the conflict.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  She's your mom, you love her, but at the same time, you, at that age, eight, nine, you just wanna be like everybody else.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Like everyone else, exactly, exactly.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and anything that makes you look different.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  Look different, but automatically you're like, yeah, I don't want this.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Hands up, yeah, yeah. So then, at that age, your life changes, right?

• 20:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Your family's structure changes, so who becomes your mother's carer?

• 20:22Speaker 03

  So, um.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  At that time, I think it was more so an agency. So we, I think my dad got in contact with like a care agency. So we had carers coming in, but they were for like the odd like three, four, two hours uh per day. You know, they'd come in and then maybe go home and then someone else will come in later and then go home. You know, it was just very much like chopping change, but it was more so from a care standpoint, more so my dad. That was kind of, yeah, very hands on at that time.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Okay, so if if it's your father, right, your father, you said when he came over.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  He was just doing every job that he could.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  So uh with your mother, the diagnosis, I would imagine she's not working.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  So it's your, so financially.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Financially, yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  How how does the the household make it?

• 21:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it it was it was difficult um because one thing I didn't mention, I haven't mentioned this in anything I've done. And everyone keeps telling me I need to mention this, I need to mention this. So my mom was actually a nurse. So after she finished studying, um yeah, she qualified to become a nurse. And she she speaks to me a lot about in terms of, you know, she feels like her career got cut short because she had so many dreams and aspirations. And I think at the point she got sick, she was nursing in a care home, which was managing a care home. And that's when she started to have a few falls at work and and you know, she started noticing things at work. So she was, I think she took six months off work. And again, as a kid, you don't really notice from a financial perspective um what's actually happening.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  But now when I look back, you know, there's certain things that definitely become more apparent to me, you know. Um, I remember, I think they had to end up selling her car because my mom and dad had a car each, so they ended up having to sell her car.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  I think as well, like, you know, just like the meals we were eating, it became a little bit more stripped back. You know, my mom used to cook like chicken casserole, she used to love doing chicken casserole, you know, and and you come in and you see all these ingredients and all these bright colors. And I remember one time I I was looking back, oh my gosh, like, but I remember literally saying to my dad, like, I'm tired of eating rice and stew. You know, like, I'm literally tired of eating rice and stew. And like, God bless him, you know, the next day he started making lasagna for me, you know, me and my brother, because he just wanted, he just, I think he felt bad. I could tell he felt bad, but you know, again, in the moment, when you're a kid, you don't realize these things. You don't realize the hardships your parents are facing, the adversity.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  But um that's why I the the as in terms of, from a reflective standpoint, I feel like it's important for me to just sometimes I like to just sit back and just reflect a little bit on on these things.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And I think that that's a uh very descriptive explanation.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  You know, I could see it.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  Can see it, yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  I could see your mom in there cooking.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Lots of things. And then all of a sudden, your father's just like, all right, look.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  This is this is what we got.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  This is it.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  And the microwaveable pizzas. Sorry, I forgot that as well. Every day after school.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, all right. I can see it. You're painting a picture.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you remember the conversation you had with your father?

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  When he told you that you're that they he you were splitting?

• 23:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had I had it first with my mom.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  My mom told me first.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  How how did that go?

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Um, my dad was out of the country. He was in Zimbabwe at the time. Um, because he like, he goes back home, you know, just to go see family and have his time. Um, so I think my mom used that as an opportunity. She told me to come back home. I remember her saying like, you need to come back home, you need to come back home. This is for us, that's like uni. And then, you know, we had a conversation. Um, and she basically said, yeah, like, me and your dad, you know, were separating.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  But my brother at the time, he he was dropping like little hints here and there. You know, he he was saying stuff that it isn't all, it isn't always, it isn't, what did he used to say to me? He used to say stuff like, you know, mom and dad, you know, there's more to it or not everything is as it looks. You know, when I'd ask him, how is everyone at home and stuff? But my, me and my brother literally like were so close, but were just very different people in a way. You know, he processes things in his own way. So when he was dropping these little hints and stuff, it wasn't really hitting me. I wasn't really processing it all. But yeah, that conversation with my mom, she basically just said to me that, yeah, like, yeah, it's done. Like, I mean, your dad had done.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  And what did you say?

• 24:54Speaker 03

  It it didn't hit me. It it just didn't. I just, I think I said, oh, okay, but I was like, no. You know, deep down, I was like, no chance.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  You know?

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, you you just didn't even accept it.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Didn't, I didn't really accept it, no. I didn't, you probably thought, you know, this is maybe just kind of how she's feeling in the moment. And, you know, with time, maybe they'll fix things or maybe um she might realize that, you know, that that that this or that everything will just come back together again. Um, yeah, I was very naive, very naive. I definitely distanced myself for sure. I don't know if I don't know if people noticed, but I definitely did. My brother, he he's the only one that probably noticed.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Okay, you you're saying you distanced yourself from from family and friends?

• 25:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Like, um, my mom's got a lot of siblings. Um, got a lot of aunties and, you know, they've got a lot of kids.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Um, so on paper, it's a very big family, you know, like, I've got like a lot of, a lot of cousins, a lot of first cousins as well.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  But it got to the point, you know, people like messaged me and stuff and I'd leave them undelivered for months. I just I just didn't want to talk to anyone.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  I didn't want to talk to anyone.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Is is that also in the time where you became your mother's primary carer?

• 26:13Speaker 03

  Uh, yes.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  I think that happened first.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  So that happened first and then me becoming my mom's, yeah, primary carer, I'd say that happened after. That happened when I came back from uni. So at this point, I'm still in uni, I'm still kind of running away from my problems a little bit. I'm not addressing anything head on, but I'm angry and I'm hurt. And then I'm using, you know, distractions as a way to kind of take my mind off things and to kind of ease, you know, how I was feeling, easing the pain a little bit. But it just kept piling up. It was getting worse and worse.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  And and what are the what are the distractions?

• 26:50Speaker 03

  It was, I I was going out, you know, I was I was I was partying, I was drinking. Um, yeah, you know, like, just girls, you know, I was, it just took my mind off everything. That's kind of what helped me just, you know, forget about everything else that was going on.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  So you then became your mother's primary carer?

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  So so how how do you do that? Because you have to leave school, you had to leave school for that.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  So I graduated.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  So at that point, I've graduated now. I've come back home. That's about twenty twenty four, May, June. And um I've I've seen, you know, the the stuff that my brother, the little innuendos that my brother's been putting out there in terms of my parents. Because I didn't really actually know until I came back from uni. And my mom said her side, had a few brief conversations with my dad, just because there was definitely a lot of resentment towards him. And I was, I was like back and forth between picking whose side I'm on. You know, I love them together, but first and foremost, I need to learn to love them as individuals.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  I feel like that's when I became, you know, more at peace with the whole idea of, you know, my parents aren't together. And once I was able to accept that, that's when caring for my mom became a little bit easier. Again, it's it's even hard just to be in the house in general because they're both there at this point. Yeah, that's.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  So they're living in the same house?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's that, yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  What, hold on for a second.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  So that, so they're living in the same house?

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  They're separated or divorced at this point, separated?

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Still not technically divorced, but yeah, I know the papers, the papers are coming through or whatever, but yeah, divorced, separated, yeah.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  They're separated. They're they're not communicating?

• 28:39Speaker 03

  Not communicating.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  And then that means your father then has stopped caring for your mom?

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Mm hmm, stopped.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Completely?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Completely.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  So she, without you and your brother?

• 28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  There's no one?

• 28:51Speaker 03

  There's no one. We've got, there's, we've got a team of carers now. And to be fair, they have been there, but there's days, you know, where it might be me and my brother. There's definitely days where it'll be at least one of us, but there's days where it could be both of us. You know, you think at Christmases, Boxing Days, that that type of thing.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  Um, but yeah, dad's, yeah, completely out of the picture.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  That's a tough situation.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  That's tough because also too is I could see, I I mean, I'm I'm trying to put myself into that, right? But I could see myself being resentful at my father.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  Hmm, you see, yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  That's that's how it started.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  That's how it started, yeah. Yeah, it took time for me to really try and, you know, process things.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  In the care, if you could, because I think carers.

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Are.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Under, there's a lack of understanding.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  For, for, for what a carer goes through and the impact. Uh, I think especially as a um child. Caring for, for, for a parent.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  What, what are all the things that you had to do for your mother?

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Everything, but in terms of that personal care, that's the only thing that she's always been adamant that she doesn't want me and my brother to do. You know, and I always respect that. Um, and yeah, I feel like that's something that will never ever change. But e- everything else, yeah, we do.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  So what, what's everything?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  So everything, you know, transferring her from the bedroom to the living room, um, going to appointments with her. Um, administering medication, administering uh water, um. You know, cleaning. So she's got a tracheostomy, so she, which is basically like a ventilator. So in terms of looking after that piece of equipment, cleaning that, um. Everything else, um, like hoisting her, um, turning her in bed. Um, using like that, helping her set up on the eye gaze, um. Uh, uh, everything, picking up medication from the pharmacy, uh, everything.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  Right, preparing food.

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Preparing food, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  And, and so what has been the impact on, on you and your mental health being her carer?

• 31:10Speaker 03

  I think for me, trying to process my mom's illness is one thing. But also trying to do the best to make her proud, like from a young age, especially with football. I think football is the thing that really affected me because if I would go out and have a game on a Saturday and not play well. I felt like I was letting my mom down because I wanna be able to give her the life that she deserves. I wanna be able to make her proud. I want her to see me playing on TV, you know, these, and then I would have a bad game and oh my, like, I would, I would lose it like in my room. And, and in a weird way, I think it kind of came out a little bit in Love Island a little bit, like you see aspects of me like storming off and stuff and having a little tantrum and I'm like, I, I, I do that, you know, I've been doing that since I was a kid.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  I'm not saying that's the reason why, but I think I've seen a couple of clips on it, it's like I recognize this, you know, I used to do this when I was a kid. Like when things weren't going my way and I felt like I was letting, especially my mom down. Just be in my room huffing and puffing, I'd be like, you know, I can't do anything right. And then that same question you asked me now, it's given me so much more perspective on life. It's made me realize, you know, what's important in life. It's made me, it's brought me to here, funnily enough. You know, I feel like I was saying to myself last night, this line just kept going on, on in my head. People think that, you know, I'm here because of Love Island, but I'm here because of my mom.

• 32:36Speaker 03

  And the reason I am here because of my mom is because the choices that I've made from the day she got diagnosed, that's what's led me here. Everything I've done, I've just tried to make her proud, you know, I, I, I made her a promise about two years ago, no, a year ago. She was in hospital, I can't remember exactly what was going on, but I think it was fibroids, um, don't quote me. But I know she was in a really bad way and for me, I thought that, you know. It, it, it wasn't looking too great, you know, again, that, the same feeling that I had when she was fourteen when, when she said to my dad, look after the boys. Now my dad's out of the picture. I kind of felt that same energy now at twenty-three.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  And I remember saying to myself, or saying to her, I need you to keep going. Because I'm gonna do something great, like I can feel it, like something's lingering, like I, I know something's, there's gonna be a happily ever after after this. You know, she gave me a smile as best as she could and that's why I say the only reason I'm here is because of my mom getting diagnosed in twenty-twelve.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  And I find it so interesting then, you to navigate a lot of this with your father in the house.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in the house, yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're the older brother.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Older brother.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  As well.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Now I can see that there was a drive, a hunger.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  Hunger, that's the word.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  That, that's in you, to achieve something.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Like something big.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  Something, it has to be, yeah.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Is, is this part of how you decided to go on Love Island? Like what, and, and how did that come about? How was, who reached out to whom?

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Um, so it was always like a joke in my, in my friendship circle, I'd say. You know, we kind of used to watch Love Island as kids, me and my friends, and it'd always be like, you know, that, that, that could be you one day type of thing. And I always said, no, football, football is the only thing I'd ever do, you know, imagine missing a whole summer um of preseason, you know, to sit in a, sit in a villa, talking to girls all day in the sun. Like, you know, I should be training, you know, I've got, I've got dreams to, to achieve and stuff, you know, I need to change my mom's life. And it wa- it was a girl that, uh, one of my friends from uni, she just sent it to me, um, like the application link one time on, on, on DM. And um, she was like, you know, you should do this, like I could see you doing this.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  And I was like, oh gosh, everyone keeps saying this to me, like, you know, maybe, may, maybe, maybe this is, I don't know, you know, but I said to her like, there's no chance. There's like a million people that apply for the show every year, applied and yeah, yeah, no.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  When you get there, okay, I know that that first kind of lineup is everything because you don't know who else is on the show. You don't know who they are, what they look like, et cetera, right? I think also what must be the case, I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about this, but I'm going to say that it's gotta be, you tell me if I'm wrong, is if you are black, if you are Asian and you are on this, this, this show.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  You're looking to see how many other black people are there, how many other Asian people, how many other people of color, whatever it may be.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  You know, so A, it, did you do that?

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  And then when you're looking, what are you thinking? What's your initial thoughts looking at everyone?

• 35:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. I think for me, in that cast, there's OP, Sam Raj, Jazz, Priya. And Angie and Mika. So it was quite, there was quite a few to be fair. But for me, you know, from a, a relatability standpoint in terms of like life, Sam Raj was, I think, the, well, not the first. When I say the first, it took me a while to connect with a lot of people, but he was the first out of, you know, that initial group in, in, in terms of, you know, relatability. And we started talking about life and he has his own um battles and adversity that he's gone through in, in his life. And, you know, I opened up to him about my mom and my brother and my family dynamic.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  So we were able to like click um quite well in terms of that standpoint.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  But obviously prior to that, if we're talking like first, it was Angie, yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  So you walked in, you saw Angie.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  And did you think, okay, that is it?

• 36:59Speaker 03

  That's, that's it.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Cause remember, I came in as a bombshell, so I already saw her on my TV.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  And I, and I already knew, you know, and then when I heard she was in Barb, and like, I was like, yeah, come on, like, guys, this is too, like, this is, you know, like, what is this at this point? You know, it's actually like, what, what is this? You know, we might as well just, you know what I mean, just call it a day here, you know?

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Um, like, it was just too good to be true. Like genuinely felt like this is just too good to be true, you know?

• 37:25Speaker 02

  What was your impression? So when you saw her?

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  What were you thinking?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Just like, wow, like, definitely, I remember the first thought, I was nervous, I thought, wow, she's even better looking in person. There's so many things that, you know, I couldn't really tell from, from a TV screen that now I'm looking at, I'm like, wow, like, you know, just. Just like the poise, that's the word I always use to describe it, there's just so much poise, there's just so much elegance, grace.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  The way that she just like conducts herself, you know, especially in group settings. I always say to her, you know, you're not the loudest voice, but you're the voice that's heard. And for me, that describes my perfect woman, like my part, my future partner in terms of the, one of the major characteristics that I want, you know, you're not, you're not the loudest voice. But you're the voice that's heard, yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  I tell you, from everyone that I know that talks about, you know, that talks about every, all the participants. When Angie's name comes up, it's always the most mature, you know, like, this, this, this was, to your point, the, the voice is always heard.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  Always heard, yeah, yeah.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  What do you believe she thought of you the moment that she first saw you? I, I see the smile.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  What do you, what do you think she really thought?

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Um, you know, she's, now she's told me a few things, now I've seen, I've seen a few things as well in terms of after our first conversation, you know, I think she said immediately, yes, you know, immediately, yes.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  I think um in terms of like her type and stuff, I kind of fit, you know, that kind of, from like a physical standpoint anyways, you know? What she's told me, I've heard anyways, you know, that like I'm her type.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Um, and I, I, I think with Angie, it normally takes people quite a while to get to know me, to kind of understand how my brain works. But she picked up very quickly, which is a little bit scary to be honest.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Do you know what her biggest concern about you was when she met you? And just initially?

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, when she met me initially, I think she thought that I would just be doing, just be talking to this girl, talking to that girl, like I just. I'd be a player, you know, I'd just be having fun, I wouldn't really be genuine. Which I understand because I've been having these kind of problems even on the outside before Love Island, you know, girls would say that to me, you know, the wondering eye. You know, they did, I've had, I've had it, yeah, basically all my life from, from, from women, they'd always tell me these things.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  So, so do you think that's what she thought or you know for sure?

• 40:16Speaker 03

  That's, that's what I think.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  But you don't know for sure?

• 40:18Speaker 03

  I, I don't really know, no, I don't really know.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  On that note, how about we ask her?

• 40:23Speaker 03

  The boss.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  How about we ask her?

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Let's ask her.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Cause I, I need to know the, the, the answer to this.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Can we bring Angie?

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's bring her in.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  Hey Paul, we've got a surprise for you.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  You do? All right, who's it from?

• 40:37Speaker 04

  It's love from your listeners. We Need to Talk is sponsored by Claude Bioanthropic, the AI for mindset don't stop at good enough. So we thought we'd use it to make Paul something special from you. Using Claude, we analyzed every comment left on all the 102 YouTube episodes and then prompted it to turn that data into something beautiful.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  This design is 10-10. We talked to each other 6,021. That's how many ongoing conversations were sparked in the comments of your episodes. Wow. Thank you for giving us the confidence to be as open with each other as your guests are with you. That is a lot of conversations. And that, I would say, has been my biggest surprise about We Need to Talk, is how many people continue the conversation from the episode into their lives with people they love, with their friends, with their family, with their partners, and how those conversations then help them to change their behavior.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  And so that's all I could ask.

• 41:44Speaker 04

  For delving deeper, get started with claude.ai/talk. That's claude.ai/talk.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Angie first.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces, so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  For being here.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  I was talking about at the top that initially this was just going to be a Simba conversation.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  I got a little message from you. Right? And it was so compelling that I thought, okay, we have to have you here. All right? But we'll talk about that in a little bit. But right now, we're in Love Island.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  We're at YouTube just meeting.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Okay. And I just asked Simba a question that I need to hear from you what the true answer is. So when you first saw Simba, I just asked him, what was your truly, like, what was your number one concern about him? Because I think he fit your type.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  But what was of concern to you?

• 43:20Speaker 01

  I think it was just the level of seriousness. Yeah, I was like, I don't know how serious he is, especially with this environment. I'm thinking, I don't know, like, if he's really gonna take me in. I don't know. You might say he's interested, but I don't know to what extent. Is it just like, just on a vibey, like, you just wanna flirt kind of vibe? Or like, do you wanna go deeper? So that was my concern. I don't know if he was gonna play around.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Or not.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Okay, all right, that's fair. That's fair. Did he, did he feel like he was, I mean, I'm assuming you thought he was attractive?

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Right?

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Did you feel like immediately he was the one and the only one?

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, for me, I don't know. That instant connection was crazy.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Was it?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Like, that first conversation, I haven't felt like that in a long time. And I've been single for like four years. And I've been on dates. And it just, it never hit like that in person for the first time.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Really? Even with the cameras?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Even with the cameras, you literally forget about them.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Forget about it.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Then we was talking, it literally just felt like everything else was dark and it was just us.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  It was crazy.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Okay. So how, you know, when you're having this first conversation, right? I know you have to try to work out, okay, you're on a show. Is the person serious? Right? Is this real? Are they really into me? Right? How do you do that in a conversation like that?

• 44:59Speaker 01

  I feel like for me, I just gauge, like, how vulnerable are you willing to get? Because I'm the type of person, I don't like surface level conversations. I feel like it's just a waste of time. And I think it was like the second or third night in bed, he got really vulnerable to a point where like, he was like crying in my arms, just talking about his mom and obviously what he wants to do for her. And he just started crying. I'm thinking, it's literally been like three days. And from that point onwards, I was like, oh, okay, it's deeper. Like, this guy's like, I, he, like, I don't know. Is it fair to say that you felt like I was your safe space? I don't know.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Like, it just felt like he felt safe in that moment and I felt like I wanted to be there in that moment. And from then, it was like something that was like an unsaid connection between us.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Like, no one else knew that but us. So it was like a, yeah, okay.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm good, sorry, sorry.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was deep. And from then, I was like, yeah, like, he's serious. So let me, yeah.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Let me be.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Let me, let me, let me see, let me see, let me take him in a little bit.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Can we just touch on that conversation?

• 46:21Speaker 02

  And the reason why I want to touch on it is because from what I understand, it was not aired.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  A lot of our conversations in bed were really deep, really vulnerable, like, beyond belief.

• 46:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, we used to have.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  And it's not aired.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Wasn't aired at all. Our conversations were cra- like, we would stay up, the lights would go off and like, we was always told we're the last ones to go to sleep. We'll be up two hours after the lights are out, two, three hours, talking.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Just talking. So what was it then? Because it seems like that conversation.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Something happened in that conversation that cemented you two. Like, perhaps you've never been close to anyone else.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Can you share what you talked about?

• 47:11Speaker 01

  He started it off, to be honest.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  I think I was getting scared, basically. I was getting scared that, it's only, I remember it was day four, I think, the fourth date.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:24Speaker 03

  And I was getting scared that she was very quickly becoming like the only person in here for me.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  So when the sleepover comes, you two have already, in essence, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but almost like committed to each other. Is that, is that too strong?

• 47:42Speaker 01

  I mean, it was, it was an underlying understanding.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Like, we knew under the surface.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  That's what it was.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  It was an underlying understanding.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, underlying understanding, but yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  We knew here.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  Okay, here.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Here.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  But I knew that our story wasn't gonna be a situation where we can just roll with that and just, you know, be off of the fairies.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Okay. When was the first true test of your relationship?

• 48:15Speaker 01

  The, was it the hideaway?

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  The hideaway situation,

• 48:22Speaker 01

  it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a sticky one. I just felt like I understood you to a level where it's like, I know you. And the hideaway thing, it was just like, like, what? Like, I was.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  So can you explain, for anyone who didn't watch?

• 48:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Right?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  But they want to, they want to understand how this was a test for your relationship. What happened at the hideaway?

• 48:49Speaker 03

  So I went away, I think it was for a night, to the Sleepover Villa. And at that time, I was getting to know me a little bit. And in the Sleepover Villa, you know, we tried to explore the connection. And we came back.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot on this.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  But how do you try to explore a connection? Like, what are the activities to explore a connection?

• 49:16Speaker 03

  In Love Island terms, you know, exploring connections is like you kiss, basically. And you try to, you know, kind of just see if there's any feelings there, you know? Again, this isn't how I'd operate on the outside, but you know, Love Island is its own unique environment where people kind of, you know, feel the urge to really interact with one another, especially in a physical, a physical way. So, yeah, we kissed in the Sleepover Villa, but.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  We didn't end up sharing a bed that night. Because she got picked by Chidi to share a bed and stuff. So she decided to sleep with Chidi that night. But she said, you know, there's another opportunity. If another opportunity comes up to like share a bed or whatever, then you know, she'd be happy to do so. So then we came back to the main villa now. And I was coupled up with Angie at the time. But you can only go to the hideaway with someone you're not in a couple with. So given that we didn't get the opportunity to do so in the sleep of a villa. You know, I thought, okay, why not share a bed with me? Because just to see again where my head's at, give me some more clarity. Because it's like, for me, me and Angie were so good at that point. And I was a little bit like.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  You know, everyone keeps saying I need to still explore. At this point, it's only been just over a week. I haven't even been in the villa for two weeks yet. So it's still early and I kept thinking, how can I explore this connection more to see how I really feel? Because I kissed Mika, but I still don't really feel anything. So I was like, maybe if I share a bed with her, then that will, you know, spark something. Or maybe that might make me realise, okay, cool, I actually really like her. Which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense, truthfully.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Honestly, it does.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is. It's nonsense. It's nonsense.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  All right, so I have to ask.

• 51:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  So Andrew, what's your take on?

• 51:13Speaker 01

  That I was speechless. Like genuinely, I didn't have any words when he told me that that was his idea. Like, it seemed way out of character for him.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  And just based on our private conversations. So I was just like, I don't know, like it was. It was very strange to me that, like, because it didn't even make sense. Because I was like, this is your first night back. And then you wanna not sleep, you've been away for three days. Your first night back, I've been sleeping alone for three days. And then, was it three days or two nights? I don't even know. Okay, felt like three days. And then, and then you wanna come back and then be in a hideaway. And I'm slept by myself, knowing that you're with someone else, like.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  That was insane to me. I couldn't even say anything, like. In an amazing, beautiful world, I would have cussed him out. But I just could not speak, like there was no words. All there was was just like little tears coming out, because I'm like, this can't be.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  So you were hurt?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Overly hurt.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Did you feel like the underlying understanding was no more?

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did feel like, I don't know, I just felt. Like maybe I was just like, that was just a me thing. Maybe it was just my own understanding, maybe he's just.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  I don't know, off with the fairies somewhere.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Okay. Simba, did you know how hurt Angie was?

• 52:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember telling her about, you know, me wanting to go to the hideaway with Mika and she started crying.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  And I think that was the first time I seen you actually. And then I started to realise, okay, like, you know, this girl, she likes me.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Do you feel any level of responsibility? Being a black couple on Love Island?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  While you were on the project?

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Do you wanna go first?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  For me, I would say yes.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Because I know there's a lot of younger black girls watching, older black women watching. So for me, I was being myself and I dealt with the situations just naturally how I, how I felt in the moment. But then there was times where I was like, oh, like, I should have probably went a bit harder. Because it's like, I know, like, probably people watching, like.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Like, they probably wanted that for me to go hard and for my situation to be like, you know what? Stand up for yourself as a black woman, be strong in a sense of like, don't take.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  You know, foolishness kind of thing. And then obviously the way I dealt with like the first situation, for instance, it was just like, yeah, it was. So I did kind of have that in my mind where I was like.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  I felt like, yeah, I should, I could have went a bit harder.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  I feel like you probably had it worse.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  For me, I think. I remember when my dad came on Family Day, and this is actually related to Angie. He came on Family Day, and again, I don't think they aired this. But he said to me, he basically gave me an inkling of like, what's to come, that outside, the noise, you know, there's gonna be some hate and stuff. Especially from black women, you know. He kind of, he didn't say explicitly like that, but he kind of like dropped it. You know, kind of just put the seed in my head for me to like, actually digest what you're saying. And he basically said to me that you have to understand that Angie's a black woman. And, you know, at this point, me and Angie were good, we were in a very good place. But he said, you have to understand that, you know, social media, like Angie said, that there's women that are looking at Angie like a sister.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  You know, like a daughter, you know, and they feel. They can't exactly feel what she's feeling, but you know, they're empathising a lot to Angie's situation. And you're a black man as well, you know, so you have to, you just basically said to me like, brace yourself. And I think that moment, that's when it kind of clicked for me that, okay, there is extra pressure, especially, you know. In our, in our couple, black man, black woman, and what we're representing as well.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  With Love Island two is, what was the moment for you, Simba? The moment where you fully trusted? Fully trusted?

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Angie?

• 55:56Speaker 03

  The recoupling speech. The last recoupling speech that she did before.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  Basically, the last one of the whole season. She stood up, black dress, wearing black dress. And I remember standing literally like diagonally opposite her. And she was in flow state. Like, some of the stuff she was saying, like, only my person would be able to say these things. And the fact that she was saying it not just to me, but I know even just to all the islanders, the whole country. You know, she was speaking about like me being God fearing. And me opening up to her and being vulnerable and us loving each other and me being like a part of home for her. I was just like, whoa, like.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  She, to be fair, all her recoupling speeches were really good, but that one, yeah, that's the one I'll never forget. Because I just remember, I didn't know where to look. I was just like, whoa, like she just kept going and going and going and going. And my face was hurting from smiling and, you know, and I don't know if they, I guess they had to obviously like edit. Because it was like, that was, it was a lengthy amount of time.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Was it?

• 57:14Speaker 03

  And all the boys were like to me, wow, like, you know, Angie, like that was one of the greatest speeches I've ever heard. And I remember saying to the boys, it's not even my birthday. You know, like, imagine what she's gonna do on my birthday when she's like standing up and having to speak about me. And that's how she made me feel. She made me feel like it was my birthday, so.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Imagine the wedding.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  Imagine the wedding. Crazy.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Ridiculous.

• 57:37Speaker 03

  Ridiculous.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. I loved it. Angie, what was the moment that you fully found trust in Simba?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  I think it was the day after he came back from Casa. And he called it a day with Mara the next day. And when I was hearing his behaviour in bed with her, like the day they came back from Casa that night. Like, he turned over, like, he just, no talking, no touching, no nothing. I was upstairs, so I didn't see what was going on in the bed downstairs. That was the first night that they spent together in the villa, in bed. So I was just a bit like, oh, like, what's going on? Are they talking? Like, what's? I still hadn't really gauged the situation, because I don't know anything.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  So then when the next day I'm hearing that that was the case and he was gonna call it a day, I was like, oh.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, after one day.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  After one day, it hadn't even been 24 hours.

• 58:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, just the night, basically.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  It was literally just the night and then the next.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  The morning.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 03

  Came back in the night, then by the morning, I just said, yeah, it's done.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so for me, that was like a big telephone call. I was like, oh, okay.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  He's like serious, like he knows like what he wants for real. Because he could have dragged it on and done the whole triangle limbo situation, oh, I don't know you or her. But like, yeah, I brought her and then like literally the next morning, it was like done, like. So I was just like, okay, I can, I can trust that he knows what's what, like the penny's dropped now for him.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, okay. So now you both finished third.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Okay. I see here that the season 13 finale had 1.1 million viewers. And countless millions viewed clips, et cetera, right? So still incredibly popular. Were you surprised that you came in third?

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Just a question.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  I wasn't surprised.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  You weren't surprised?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Long key, we was like, okay, like, death or not winning. But more so, like, we was like, second, maybe, but we was like, third, like, we was like, to be honest, because even like Jazz was saying to me like the day before, she was like, you're definitely gonna be second. And I was like, not really, because I was like, let's boil it down to race now. Like, really and truly, I don't know. From my understanding, I'm like, do black people vote like that for real, for real? Like, just based on that, I was like, yeah, we'll probably just be third.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  So, so, so you, you thought third, but it sounds like you wanted one or two places up.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, just, just knowing our connection, what was she gonna say?

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  I feel like a big telltale for me was all the ex Islanders coming in. I'll never forget that day, you know, all the ex Islanders, every single person that we've, we've lived with, they've seen our highs, but they've also seen our lows as well. But the most important is, most important thing is, is twenty-four hours worth, you know? So they're, they're living every single day with us. And we didn't get any votes. And I remember

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  The vote was, who doesn't deserve?

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  Who doesn't deserve to get to the final?

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Oh, doesn't?

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  Does it? Yeah, who, yeah, basically, he doesn't, he doesn't deserve to get to the final. And I think there was some couples on like eight votes, seven votes, every, every, basically every couple had at least two votes. The, the next up was, yeah, two, and those are the winners, Uli and Lorenzo got two, but we had none. You know? So for me, I feel like that, that could have, like, in terms of, from the public perspective, you know, if I'm watching that, remember the public, I'm thinking, okay, maybe cool, they might not be my favorite couple, but at the end of the day, these are the people that are spending the most time with them every day. And, and they think that they're not worthy of getting any votes to, as a reason why they shouldn't get to the final.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Okay. So it sounds like you were hopeful that you could have won.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  I, I was, I was hopeful, but like Angie said, we knew we weren't gonna win.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Realistically, that was just hopeful thinking.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  Me and Cav literally said, Lorenzo, you're winning it, a second is a flip of a coin. We literally said, me and Cav literally said, a flip of a coin. And even the percentages, I think we missed that by what, one point, one percent or something?

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was close.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, very close.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  It was very close. That's interesting.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  So, so now, a question I asked earlier, but now Angie, I have to come to you, right? This is not to put you on the spot, but it is to put you on the spot.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Did you find love in the villa?

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Without question?

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Without a question.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Without question?

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  Without a question.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Okay, all right, I love this, I love this. So you found love in the villa.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  Still in love now. All right, so, so, so where, where do we stand right now? Because we, we touched on it earlier.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, we spoke about it, yeah.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  But, but now, now that we're here now, so we have two lovers

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  sitting awfully close.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  Okay. Where, where do we stand right now in terms of our coupling?

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  Like I said,

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  I think it's up to him. Well, I think you can't be in love and not be

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure, for sure.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  That doesn't make sense.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  And not be what?

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  And not be boyfriend and girlfriend.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  You can't be in love and not be in a relationship.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  For sure, yeah.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  What's that about? Do you know what I mean?

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  I think, and I agree, and she knows this, you know, outside world and, and being in that villa, it's like, it's like polar opposites, basically.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  In a sense, you know?

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  It's just time, Paul. I think it's just

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:03:20Speaker 03

  Like, every, every time, there's been no time to go on a date and just like phones down and just, and just look at her and just take her in and take, just take us in.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  There was a moment where we was like, you know what, tonight, we're actually just gonna sit and watch Netflix.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Put down our phones.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  And, and just have us time, because since coming out, it's, it's just been go, go, go, go, go. There's been no time.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  There's been no time.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  No time.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  No time.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  All right, but you know what's interesting is that we're, we're seated here on the couch, right?

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  Candles.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  It's kind, it's kind, it's kind of romantic.

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  Kind of romantic.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  We have had Angie just say

• 1:04:00Speaker 03

  It's up to me.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  It's, it's up to him.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  It's up to him what he wants to do. I don't know if he wants to you, I feel like you was taking time because you wanted to plan something.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  I just feel like God works mysterious ways. I had a conversation with, with my brother last night. You know, I, I came back from football late last night. And I had, um, one of my like, you know, those moments, I'm just like, oh, huffing and puffing and stuff.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  I felt that on FaceTime. I was like, do you want five minutes? Yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  And I said to my brother, I want, like, when am I gonna find the time to make her my girlfriend? Like, I just need to just, I need to do this. And my brother was like, you don't need to force it, you don't need to, I was like, I know, but you know, like, I, I want to do this now, you know? Because again, I'm thinking about her and I don't want her to feel, like you just said, how can I be in love and not be official? Because I had a feeling these feelings might start to seep in. And I don't want that feeling. And I know how I feel, you know, I love you. And, you know, she's met my whole family. But again, it's just crazy. I literally had this conversation with my brother last night.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  There you go. I'm, I'm telling you.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  I mean, we've lived our life on camera for so long.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  I just wanna have our moment.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Private moments are like everything to us.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  No, seriously.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Thank you. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's been epic.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Enjoy it.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Oh, come on, come on, I'm just talking to him.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  I'm sorry.

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  All right, I can't believe I'm saying this. We are on the pathway, we could see it, the light is at the end of the tunnel to one million subscribers. And so here's what I want to say is, if you're already subscribed, thank you so much, we appreciate it. If you are not yet subscribed, I ask you to do so. Why? Because signals to the world that these conversations matter. So if you're not subscribed, please do so. If you are, thank you so very much.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  I appreciate you spending some time with me.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  This came about last minute.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  This conversation.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  But when you wrote to me and I read what you wanted to talk about.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  It's a topic that I've always wanted to talk about here. But never had anyone to do it with.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wow, thank you, honestly, thank you so much for even giving that time of day. I didn't even think you would.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  So, as much as you want to go into this, if you could, maybe what we should do is, if you could explain to everyone watching, what it was that you wrote to me?

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  So it was just more so basically just my experience as a black woman on Love Island. Um, I felt like my experience was, it did feel lonely sometimes compared to like other female Love Island contestants. I felt like the desirability, it's always really been a topic. So it wasn't like I was walking into Love Island being like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna be desired by everyone. Like, I knew there was a risk in that. But it's just living it, it just hits different. So my thing was like, I walked in there, was hardly desired.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  And then when someone finally walked in, that was like gunning for me straight away. From the outside, he said, Angie, straight away, came inside, same energy. When I had, when I finally had that, the one time, I just felt like now my narrative had to be a situation where he's the player and I'm sitting around and I'm just waiting for him to finish his dog days. When in reality, it's like, I had no options, for real. Like, I wasn't given, like, they gave him all the options. Like, you know, he had sleepover opportunities.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  He had, you know, people was interested, multiple people was interested in him, like, not even like, just when he walked in, so many people, like, literally the next morning, they was like, yeah, respectfully, Angie, I'm gonna also get to know Simba. So it's like, oh, can I have one thing? So it just felt like, okay, he has his options, but like, okay, can we bring in someone that I can also get to know? And, you know, test our connection on my side, because now it just looks like I'm just sitting here looking like a fool, when it's like, it's not by choice.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  I see it.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  I like, my hand was forced to sit here and, because like, who else is, I'm not gonna speak to someone who's not interested in me just for the sake of like trying to explore, like, no one's interested in me. And no one came in interested in me. I was actually sitting there and I was thinking, hold on, but like, I had a really difficult experience, like, in terms of just my experience just as a black woman. And I haven't seen anyone else do it. That's why I was like, let me, let me say something, because I really need to just get it off my chest. Like, I was talking to my mom and I was just there like, nah, like, that wasn't right, what happened, like, because now I look crazy, like, do you know what I mean? But, yeah, it was, yeah, you get it.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, fully, fully. Thank you for that. When you wrote that to me.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  The reason why I was so interested to talk about it and the reason why, um, I have wanted to talk about this topic is because I don't think, I know, not only in the UK, in the US, in many other countries, there is, I would call it a horrendous problem with how black women are treated on television.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  Now, that's not to say black men are not treated horribly, or white men, white women, et cetera, certain um, religion, certain nationality, et cetera, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is a conversation about black women.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  And we're going to keep it at that.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  I know some people are gonna say, oh, Paul, no, no, no, this is about black women.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  And

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  You touched on what I think is one of this underlying issues that I see. In the two, because I'm working in the US and the UK.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  And that word is desirability.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  And the issue that I see is that by placing you as a black woman on a reality show, and if you feel as if there is no options, if you feel as if there is no desirability, it's like you're saying that there were no options for me. The, not only is there an impact on you, but then the perception is that you have black women watching at home. And we know that there's a parasocial relationship with reality TV. People have a relationship. They see you, they're like, Angie's me.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Or Angie's my sister, or Angie's my daughter, or like Angie is, is I'm connected to her. We have a relationship. And the more that they could feel you not feeling desired, it's internalized.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  And so then, even though I'm sure people fight to have you on for representation.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  By not giving you a full experience, what it does is it's actually a ripple effect of, of, of being detrimental.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  And I'll even go a step further is I think it's incredibly detrimental to black men.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  Because you have black men watching, and they say, oh, look at that. Oh, she's not desirable.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Right? Or they say, she, look, she doesn't have a lot of options. And then they watch the parasocial relationship they have with Simba. And say, well, look, look at all the, the, the options.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  That, that.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  Fish in the sea.

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Fish in the sea. So, so this is something that has just upset me. And from the inside, I have, I'm telling you, I have had endless conversations, endless conversations with production companies, with networks. We gotta change this. This has got to change. We're doing a disservice to this person. Do you know what this is hap- what's happening here?

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  And so that's why when you sent that, that, that message to me, I, like, it was one of those, it was a trigger for me.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you're trying to fix it and it's like.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's just, it's just.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  It's just not changing.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  So, so why did you feel as if you had no other options?

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  I think it was just point blank in my face. Literally, as when I walked in the first day, we had to sit around the fire pit. And it was a situation where, um, I think it was like, oh, yeah, so, so who, who finds this person attractive or, oh, like, who would you say is wifey material? And, and like, my name is everyone else sitting there, their name is getting called for something in terms of attractiveness, wifey material. Wifey, I got it from OP, which I was like, I think he's seen it. I think by that point, he's seen that, okay, no one's even batting an eyelid at Angie. So the wifey material came up.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  I'm thinking, okay, maybe, maybe someone's gonna feel sorry for me at least and be like, you know what, she's quiet, she's very demure, maybe this is, this is wifey. We can just say, yeah, Angie, like, at least, like, but no one. And everyone, I was just sitting there, if you see my body language, even when I watched it back, even just living in that moment, I was just like, yeah, I was like, oh, that's nice. Like, for the other girls, I was like, happy for them. But then I was like, that reality just set in, like, where I am. And I was just there like, this is where it all starts. Like, this is where it all starts. No one's even batting an eyelid except for one person. So it's like, automatically now it's a situation where I have to entertain this situation because he's the only one interested in me.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  I had chats with a lot of the guys within like, the first like couple of days in the villa, we was all pulling everyone for a chat. We was all chatting to each other.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  And just even in those interactions, it just felt on their side, like just platonic straight away. Like, you can just feel the vibes. And it was never a thing where there was someone continuously pulling me for a chat and being like, actually, yeah, we had a good first conversation, I wanna, because I had ideas in my head where I'm like, actually, me and such and such, we had a good conversation. So actually, I'm gonna entertain that. Even though I was coupled up with OP, I was like, still like, okay, let me actually see. But it wasn't really, I didn't feel from their side. So I kind of was just like, nah, like, I'm not even gonna. Because you can just tell when people aren't interested. So that's when I started to feel like, yeah, I don't have options here.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  So I have to kind of be in a situation where I'm with someone who's not all the way my type. And I have to kind of not force it, but now I have to force myself to grow into liking this person. Like, when I know it's a situation where first conversation, we did, there was an instant spark romantically. But I felt like I had to just hone into that because I'm like, hey, he's the only one that's like showing any type of interest.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  And it's just, yeah.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  And, and, um, did you feel as if, because he was the only one, that if you didn't show interest, then that's it for you?

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Oh, hundred percent.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Like, hundred percent, I was on that next flight. And obviously, when I walked in, you're told, be open, be open, be open. So I'm like, okay, cool, he's not my typical type for real. So this is my be open moment. So I'm like, okay, you know what, let me just be open. So that was my moment where I'm like, not really thinking about, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna go home if I don't show interest, but it was just more so, okay, let me just be open and see where this openness leads. But yeah, it ended up just leading like, do you know what I mean? I ended up finding out that he was saying that, um, I think on his, one of his intro, it's like a Scottish blonde is his type. So I was like, oh, right then.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, then you're.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  I was like, there you go.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  Then you're out.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Now I'm like, okay.

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  What do you think the future looks like and what, what, what can we do?

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  I think for me, the ideal future is to bring, when you're like trying to take the diversity box for these shows, these dating shows, like, not only take that box, but make sure that they get the full experience as well. Like what you were saying, like, I just feel like, come, us coming in and taking that box for you, it's all good and well, but then when we're having experience where it's like, all the other girls, they have, they're in situations where, you know, like with my situation, for instance, there's bumshells walking in and they're saying, oh, yeah, like this girl, that girl. And it's consistently, like, other girls bar me, the only like full black girl, I guess,

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  like dark skin, mind you. So, um, yeah, like, everyone else is like interested in this one, that one, like, that don't even look like me. Do you know what I mean? I'm the only one wearing a wig, like, so it's like, I'm a specific type of niche. So I feel like the diversity box is checked, but like, when it has on my experience, I feel like you need to also bring in people who are also interested in, you know, people that look like me, like, because it's just not, living it is, is, is horror. Because I just feel like my narrative was now forced to be a situation where like, I didn't wanna be in a situation where I had to deal with what I had to deal with. Like, to be honest, like, Simba was the best option in and out the villa.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Like, I'm not saying that, oh, yeah, I wanna, if, if there was someone to walk in, I would have sacked him off because of the situations and I would have gone elsewhere.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  And I wasn't given the opportunity. That's not what I'm saying. I just feel like the same way he got to explore, figure out where his head's at and whatnot. As much as I knew, like, okay, we have a strong connection, there was no opportunity for me. This is Love Island at the end of the day. Like, it's a situation where it's like, you're not gonna get moments like this where you can sit and you can talk to this one and it's okay, and sit and talk to this one and it's okay in front of each other's spaces because we're trying to figure out our situation and where we stand with each other. And it's like, I wasn't, that was, I wasn't given the full Love Island experience, to be honest.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  You, you just said something too that we didn't even touch, well, you touched on it and I'm glad you brought it up.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  Colorism.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  That, that is all, oh, my God.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  Do we have another hour?

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Do we have another hour?

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  It is, to me, and I, I, I mean, these are all the things that, that, that I'm just getting off my chest. When I got to the UK, I noticed, all right, tell me if I'm, if, if this is inaccurate.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Okay? This is my observation.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  Is, I noticed something very interesting about television shows here. And that is, is that television shows predominantly white shows, predominantly white shows. But as the show wanted to diversify.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  The first option typically was someone who was was someone mixed race, light complexion.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  And by doing that, it was like a checkbox, right? And then, what you see is then you see maybe two mixed race people. So it's slowly.

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very gradual.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Very gradual.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Baby steps.

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  Baby steps.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  It's a humbling experience, to say the least. That was a very humbling experience, especially when the person that you're coupled up with is speaking to this one or that one. And it's just like, I don't know, it's just, it's really humbling. Because like, when you think you have like such a connection to her, it's like, yeah. And then you see the reality of what Love Island is, you have to talk to other people. But then it's just like, and then you're sat there with nothing. It's like, in my spare time, I'm watching him having conversations. Like, it's like, because what else can I do? That place is small. And it was just, yeah, it was just, it was very humbling. But there were good times, I'm not gonna lie.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  Because in terms of my wig situation, I felt so seen. So seen, they were so understanding in terms of catering to me in that department. Like, if I needed more time in terms of my hair, because we would have like lunch before we would start getting ready for the nighttime. So they would say, okay, like, if you need to like change your wig or something, ask us like, if there's like three hours to get ready, and you'll know that's your time to change your wig.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  And there was like, you have to do like your beach huts before you can, um, before I can start changing my look and getting ready. So they would say, okay, cool, if you need to change your wig, we'll put you first on the list to do the beach hut, so you can start getting ready and have the full three hours. Because sometimes you could be waiting for a beach hut for ages. Because you're waiting for everyone else to finish. Like, my experience as a whole with like the team and everything in my process, going through it, like, it was amazing. I'm not even gonna lie, I'll give that to them. But it was just the option part. If that was, if that was sorted, sorry, I wouldn't have a bad word to say.

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  And also, I just felt like the whole, I don't know, like, for me, it was like, why couldn't I just have the person that was gunning in for me? And we can just ride off in the sunset. Why did our narrative had to be, have to be toxic? Especially as black people. It's just like, and then Zimmen, they don't have a good rep. Like, Zimmen are known to, they have a stereotype of being cheaters and stuff like that. So it's like, our narrative doesn't help. You know, stereotypes.

• 1:23:11Speaker 02

  I see it.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  And it's like, I'm the strong black woman that stays. And it's like, you know, like the olden days where it's like, like your grandmas would tell you, oh, just, just stay.

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  Just stay, yeah.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Just stay. It looks like that was my vibe. And my friends and family, they know me. I am, I am completely opposite. I was literally like to my friend, I've done all this work being single for three, four years. And my standpoint on like, men and how you, you should be treated, like, it's all, it all just felt like it was just thrown in the bin. Because going on the show and my situation is complete opposite to what I preach and how I maneuver usually on the dating world, in the dating world. But it was like, I was forced to be in a situation just because I had no options. It looked like I was the loyal girl that wouldn't look left or right. But it was like, I couldn't look left or right.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  If I could, I would have.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hear you.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  I hear you. I hear you, yeah. I, I, I, um, I wanted us to talk about this.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  Because I wanted you to, to feel seen.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  And feel heard.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  And, and know that there's, there's, there, there are, this conversation, there is going to be an endless number of people who resonate with it.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:33Speaker 02

  Viewers, participants of different projects, participants of production companies and networks who are fighting, because there's many, many people fighting to try to make this happen.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  It's something that needs to change in this industry, right? It's an industry, for me, it's an industry issue. I won't stop fighting on it.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  And, and also, I, I almost wanted to have this conversation, because this is something that I have been fighting on for 10 years, easy.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 1:25:08Speaker 02

  Been having conversations for 10 years. You know, this is the kind of behind the scenes work that so many people are unaware that happens. The hard conversations that are happening.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  And even for me, I have to be delicate.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:25:21Speaker 02

  You know, you gotta be delicate.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  You have to say it in a specific way, because, do you know what I mean? Like, you, you can't, you can't be raw about it. Like, you have to say it in a persuasive, nice kind of, but that's just because of like, just who we are as people. Like, just being black, you can't just be like, oh, but, yeah, that's the reality.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  That's the reality, yeah. That's the life we live.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  But I'd say, we're, we're, I always say, though, we're so blessed.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  I was gonna say that.

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  So blessed.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be any other way.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  Genuinely.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  Genuinely.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's one of those where I feel so blessed to be black.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So blessed.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  And so, yeah.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  And it's always been the case, to be honest. There was never an identity crisis around here.

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. I believe that.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, no, never that, it was never that. But yeah, I'm, I'm blessed, yeah, we are.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  There you go, all right? We're blessed.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  We are blessed.

• 1:26:25Speaker 02

  We're blessed.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  And we're black.

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  We, we, you know, you know what we are?

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  We are blessed, we are black.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  We are brilliant.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  We are beautiful.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  You say it.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  And we are everything.

• 1:26:40Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  Amen to that.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  Amen to that. You know, I'm so glad we had this conversation.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm so glad that I got this opportunity to speak to you, of all people.

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  This is like something that was like vision board vibes.

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  Double whammy. It, it was great to hear Angie and Simba unpack their relationship and the dynamics of their relationship. I think we can all understand truly now how their relationship formed and why it's so strong today. The conversation I had with Angie, just the two of us, was a conversation I've wanted to have publicly for quite some time. And as we, we, we walked through that conversation, I could see that we were step in step, hand in hand, we were in full agreement. And I know we're not the only two that believe this.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  I know there is an endless number of people that see what we see. Not only people of color, but all people that see what we see and realize something needs to change. I saw that you require men to sign an NDA and sometimes have a vasectomy.

• 1:27:59Speaker 04

  Did you ever get a vasectomy?

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Who, me? No.

• 1:28:01Speaker 04

  Free ballin', all right.

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  So 16 and pregnant and teen mom.

• 1:28:11Speaker 04

  I like got to the realest point in my life as I'm living in my car and going to school and also watching my kid.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  So Derek is the father of your child.

• 1:28:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, he just showed me a lot of love. And I think sometimes when you're so desperate, you need just a touch of love, but not go for [BLEEP] and [BLEEP]. And that's what I sadly reached out to.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  I remember you were in all the tabloids, you were arrested several times.

• 1:28:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, doing nothing.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  So what happened? Well, you got serious there.

• 1:28:39Speaker 04

  It's so surreal, because even like our immature fights, I used to be like, well, I will never be there if you die. And then when someone you love really dies, you're like, why did I say all those stupid, hurtful things?

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  The day that Derek passed, how did you find out?

• 1:28:55Speaker 04

  It's gonna bring me to tears.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  I have a very important surprise for you. You ready?

• 1:29:03Speaker 04

  Oh, God, that made my whole year.

• 1:29:13Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 1:29:42Speaker 05

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:30:12Speaker 06

  Honey, that flu keeping you up? Did you take Nyquil Intense Flu?

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Nah, I got this. Okay, I don't got this.

• 1:30:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, you need Nyquil Intense Flu.

• 1:30:24Speaker 07

  Undo your flu with Nyquil Intense Flu. Nyquil Intense Flu provides powerful relief of your flu symptoms so you can sleep.

• 1:30:32Speaker 06

  You do got this.

• 1:30:34Speaker 07

  Nyquil Intense Flu, the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best sleep with a flu medicine. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children.