“I Had No Confidence” Perrie Edwards: The Shy Girl Who Became a Pop Star

Perrie Edwards sits down with Paul to reveal how a painfully shy girl with no confidence was pushed into auditioning for The X Factor and became one quarter of Little Mix. (00:00) Intro (00:24) Perrie's Childhood and Moving Around Growing Up (04:07) Perrie Opens Up About Her Childhood Health Issues (08:13) How Perrie's Childhood Shaped Her as an Adult (11:20) Perrie on Living Without a Sense of Smell (17:57) When Perrie Realised She Wanted to Become a Singer (24:17) The Story Behind Perrie's X Factor Audition Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, I sit down with Perry Edwards to look back at the childhood that shaped her and the X Factor moment that changed her life.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  What I didn't realize is that you moved around quite a bit.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  A lot.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  When you were younger.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  I mean, we make fun of it now. Like me and my brother make fun of my mom. And she's like, it's not funny. I'm like, no, but it's great. Like, it was an adventure. But I think from the early age, I think I was about six months when my dad left. And my mom was like a single mom, grown up. She had two kids. I think she struggled a lot. But we just moved here, there, everywhere. Like, basically in South Shields, there's like loads of areas. And we lived in all of them. So we moved to Weymouth. I remember going to school for a while. We lived there for like a year or two. Moved back to South Shields. My mom's partner at the time, my stepdad at the time, was a Kiwi. He was from New Zealand. So we ended up moving to New Zealand.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Okay, that's how you got to New Zealand?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And how was that experience for you?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  The best experience of my entire life.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:53Speaker 02

  It was like everything you could imagine it being. It was that. It was beautiful. It was like serene. It was peaceful. The people were incredible. Our lifestyles, like mine and my brother's lifestyle, completely changed because we'd never been used to something like that. And I think we had school, we made friends. We were out and about all the time. But my mom, she just felt really lonely. So she didn't work out there. So she got into baking, gained a lot of work because all she did was bake. And she was like, I don't know if I can be away from my family. Then my granddad got really sick. So I just remember coming home one day and my mom sat me and my brother down. And she was like, we're moving back to England.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  And me and Johnny were like, no, please, no. We love it here. And she was like, I know, but granddad's poorly and I can't bear being away. Like, I'd never forgive myself if anything happened and I'm not there. And when you're a kid, you're like, you're ruining my life. Like, this is so unfair. And my brother was so like popular and like, because he was British. It was just like one of those things.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was cool.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was so cool. He was like pretty emo back then. He used to wear a top hat and eyeliner. Like, he was the sickest dude. He still is. And I just remember being heartbroken, thinking, please, can we just stop moving around? Like, I've had enough.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  We're at the other side of the world. And then we went back. Now that I'm an adult, I see it completely different. When I was a kid, I used to think, oh, my mom's dragging me back to England. I don't want to go back to England. I've got a life here now and I've got best friends. I've got crushes at school. And like, it was a whole lifestyle.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  And then it was just gone. And then we moved back. We had to live with my nana for a while in her little bungalow because we had nowhere to live for a while. And then we eventually found our house in Whiteleys, which is where I basically grew up from 12 to X Factor.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  So all of that that you just described happened before you were 12?

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  That's a lot. When you reflect back, how do you think that entire period shaped who you've become today?

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Well, one, it made me good at meeting new people, I think. But I think it's because I had to.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  But like, all of this was going on. Not only was my mom a single mom and were we moving around so much? But I was really badly ill as a child as well, which I've spoke about a little bit in the past, but not like in massive detail.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Okay. Can we talk about it?

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. I spoke about it recently. I did a show with Alison Hammond.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  And she gets right, she is the nation's sweetheart. She's a gorgi hun. Love her. She just has me cackling all day. But we did like, we went back to South Shields and I told her a bit about like hospital and growing up. But I spent a lot of time in hospital. But basically, when I was born, I had something wrong with my esophagus. And that's obviously your food tube. So where food goes down. Every time my mom would feed me milk or whatever, I would just projectile vomit the milk back out. And my mom was like, something's obviously not right. This isn't normal. So she took me to doctors. Nobody could find anything wrong with me. They were like, maybe she's just a sicky baby. It's the way she is. My mom's thinking, nah, this is, this is off, but okay.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  So I guess I'll just monitor it. I got to about, I honestly can't remember. I was probably seven when they discovered there was actually something seriously wrong. But I was severely undernourished. I couldn't eat a thing, couldn't keep food down. My mom had to blend my food for years. Like, Sunday dinners were in the blender.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Goodness.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Soup, mash, all that kind of thing. And she went to doctor after doctor after doctor. And I'll never forget it. We went to see this specialist, right? And went in, did the blood tests. They tried to put a camera down my throat to see. First time they'd even tried.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  And this is, yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Couldn't get it in. And they were like, right. The camera, bearing in mind, it's tiny. It's a little wire with a camera at the end that goes down. And they can see it all on the screen. They couldn't even get that down my esophagus.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Because you know, so I was, I was researching this. So this is esophageal, or you're gonna have to pronounce it for me. Is it esophageal atresia?

• 6:06Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah. Yeah, you're probably better at it than I am.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  And I was looking at diagrams of this. And it's incredible because to your point is that your esophagus connects to your stomach.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  But your esophagus did not connect.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  It basically, when I was a baby, it's like your windpipe, I think, in your esophagus are like one. And when you're born, they kind of separate. And usually, it's quite common in boys. It's not really seen in girls. So it wasn't 32 years ago when I was born. So when it kind of separated, it came with like a saddle on its back almost. And it had like a curve in it.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  I see.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  And it was just like something was wrong, but they could never find it. And then finally, they found it. And I remember someone saying to me, darling, are you hungry? Do you want to eat? And I said, I'm starving. I really want to eat. I don't want to eat food out of a blender anymore. I want to eat food. So they sent me to a head. She was incredible, Ms. Lawson, Dr. Ann Lawson, my absolute queen. And she basically saved me. But I was in hospital every other week.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  For operations, yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Look at that. Shows you the importance of asking the right questions.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  It was so bad. Like, the doctors were like, if you didn't persevere with your daughter, this would have been it. Like, there was, I had nothing left to give. I was just skin and bone. Like, it was wild.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  And then that is then resolved?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  You're able to get nutrition, soup.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Yes, almost. Yeah, almost. It got worse before it got better because then the acid from my stomach came up and burnt a hole in my esophagus. And then that was a whole new ballgame. But I feel like luckily, I was in the perfect hands. The care was incredible. I was there like every other week for an operation. So I was used to being put to sleep. I used to like sing to them. They'd be like, sing us a song, you know? Instead of counting down from 10, I'd be like, "We turn upstairs in the vire." Off I went.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Loved it.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Was that your first time that you remember singing?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've sung forever. I've sung forever. It's just something I've done. But both my parents are singers.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  So I thought that was normal. I thought everyone just sung until I heard people who were torn deaf. And I was like, why was I, that's not right? And it really threw me. I'm fascinated by that, yeah.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  All right. So you would sing yourself to sleep, basically?

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I sung myself to sleep every night.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  In and out of the hospital?

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Right? And I did not know this about you.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  I would imagine this is also impacting how your character shapes.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  And now, when you reflect back, how do you think those moments have impacted who we see today?

• 8:41Speaker 02

  I think, you know, I have therapy every Friday. Absolutely love my therapy. And we got to the point in one of the sessions, and I kept saying like, sometimes when I'm feeling anxious and I'm in a car and I'm in traffic or I'm in certain situations, I start to feel a bit trapped. And we kind of discovered that my whole upbringing and my whole childhood, I was in a body that wasn't working. And that must have felt like it was almost a little bit claustrophobic being in a body that wasn't doing the right functions. But I couldn't escape it and I couldn't help it.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  So I think part of it kind of comes from that. Part of the, maybe the uncertainty and the unsteadiness comes from moving around so much. So I think like so much of my upbringing has a part to play in, one, why I'm so robust, but also why I probably have a few little issues going on, you know?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  But isn't it so incredible to be able to do that reflection?

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  So now that you can pinpoint those things, how does that make you feel now?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  It made me feel kind of like, ah, okay. I never thought of it like that. I never thought of like, because when you're a child, you just crack on with it, don't you? You don't really think about things. I wasn't sat in the hospital being like, oh, poor me. I was just like, oh, I'm in hospital. Okay, this is my life. I just was what, it was the cards I was dealt. So I think as a kid, you just crack on with it. But now that I'm an adult, now I've got a child as well, I can't imagine being in the shoes that my mom had to walk in for all those years, being a single mother, trying to keep us afloat whilst also spending every other day in hospital. And I was a clingy child as well. Like, there was never a time where my mom wasn't sat in that chair in the, in the hospital

• 10:27Speaker 02

  because I would just be terrified without her.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  So I'm thinking, how did she do it?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And when you, and now because you're a mother, right? I'm a father. And the majority of my day is spent thinking about my children.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  You know, so you think when they are, I always say that as a parent, tell me if you feel this way, is that the limit of my happiness is my child's happiness?

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  And so if my child is sad, I'm inevitably sad.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  I echo their emotion.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  So I can't imagine having a child who is in and out of the hospital.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  And you feel like there's nothing you can do. You know, you think about, you know, how incredible your mother was.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  It's just next level.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  She's such a badass.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  She's the best.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  She really is.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  You're blessed to have her.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  No, I know. I couldn't do life without my mom. Like, I'm attached to the woman's hip. She's here somewhere. She's with me all the time.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Is she literally here?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's literally.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  I love that woman.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  She's like here in the studio.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, when people say it takes a village, it doesn't, it takes Deb's. Like for me, it takes Deb's. Deb's does everything. She's the handyman around the house. She helps me with Axel. Like she's my queen of life.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Wow, look at that.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  She's epic.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Look at it, she is. I'm gonna have to meet her after this.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  She's the best ever.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  So when did you find out about the, is it congenital insomnia? Of not being able to smell?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  That came later in my life.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Look at that, you're gifted.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  I was like, woo, I'm special. There was two occasions, which is true. I don't know how I got my whole life. I was in secondary school, probably about 13 years old, maybe. But I don't know how I got through my life not knowing that I couldn't smell until then. But there was two occasions. One, I remember being in school and like, you know, there's like misty sprays that all the girlies were into. And it was like a thing and you'd wear like your Victoria's Secret mists or your blue jeans or red jeans or whatever. It was the thing the girlies did. And I remember the girls like spraying it, be like, oh my gosh, now smell this one. And I'd be like, mm, thinking, I really don't get it. Like, I don't understand what you're doing. And they're like, well, don't you think that one smells nicer than that one?

• 12:44Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I guess, like, I don't know.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Weird. Then our kitchen set on fire once and there was like smoke and I couldn't smell it until I started coughing. And then I was like, oh, hang on, something's not right. But I couldn't smell any burning, couldn't smell like the burnt toast or whatever it was. Just went straight over my head. And another thing, actually, when I was a kid, my brother would be like, oh, mom's making bacon sandwiches. And I'd be like, how do you do that? Like he would just know, we'd be upstairs and he'd be like, oh, mom's making a roast dinner. And I'd think, how, but how? And he's like, I can smell it from up here. And I'm like, smell what?

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  So then I thought, something's not right. So I went to the doctors.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  And how old were you?

• 13:26Speaker 02

  I think I was about 13. I must have been, because I was secondary school.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  So yeah, I was 13 and then we went to the hospital again. Off I go. I'm like the regular. And I was like, I don't think I can smell. And they run tests and it's really strange because I can taste everything, but normally they're connected.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  So I think there's like a disconnect between my brain and my sense of smell or something. But I had surgery. Didn't work. And they were like, we'll probably have to do the surgery again. So I think they laced that like loads of stuff away in my like nasal passage way.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  And it was a horrible surgery and the recovery was horrendous. So when they suggested a second one, I thought, you know what, hon, I'm good. I'd rather not smell anyway. And I've never had it, so I don't know what I'm missing.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Are you, so you cannot smell to this day?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Nope, still can't smell, it didn't work.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Oh my good, really?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  So for when you walked into this room, you couldn't smell this, oh, there's some beautiful scented candles.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Oh no, I'm so sorry, it's wasted on me, it really is. But I can't smell a thing, not a thing.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Okay, so help me understand this. I mean, because I can see, there could be some advantages to this.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  Yes, mm-hmm, helpful for Trumpies, pumps and whatnot.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, you could just go in and do it.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  So I've often read that when you have one sense that's diminished.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Another one will try to overcompensate.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Hearing, sight, taste. So did you feel like that happened for you?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  My sight is really good, touch wood.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  And my taste is really good. Like I feel like if you blindfold me and you give me something, I'll tell you the ingredients.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  This is why you're a foodie.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is why I'm a foodie. Also because I couldn't eat it for my whole life. So now I'm like gobble, gobble, gobble.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  So now I can eat.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're, the taste, but probably all the sense as well, probably feel.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  You said your sight, right?

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Yes, I love, I see, like I'm a visual eater as well. I love food to look good. Like I eat, I love when it looks all artsy and gorgeous, like whenever I dish up, even if it's beans on toast, I make it pretty. Do you know what I mean?

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Make it a bit fancy.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  I eat with my eyes and I just love food so much. But I think it's because I was deprived of it for so long. My dad always says, you're making up for lost time, darling. Because I can put it away. Like all you can eat buffet, hate to see me come and I've got hollow legs, I think.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Oh, you might, you might, you might. But wow, that's so fascinating to know that you cannot smell, but you are no longer interested. And it was because of the pain of the surgery.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just thought it's not worth it. If I had it, like people through COVID, lost their sense of smell, right?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  And it really like traumatized them or affected them and they didn't like it. And it was like a change, but because I never had it, I thought, what's the point? If it was taste, I'd probably be like, send me under, let's get my taste sorted out. But smell, I'm like, what do I need it for?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  What do you need it for? You know, so on that note is I didn't realize how like how prevalent this is. But there, there's a significant percentage of the population who lose a sense, we'll say. And then, and literally have to exist.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  You know, with, without it. So this just, it's just so interesting. And I think maybe I'm looking at it from a place of privilege, knowing what it's like to have it and lose it. Because during COVID, I remember getting COVID.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Losing my ability to smell. It impacted taste as well.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  And I just, it was, it was so unbearable.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  You know, but.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  But it's because it's different, it's not what you're used to, it's like a shift.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm totally cool with it, but I find it crazy when, you know, I'll be doing whatever and my little boy will be like, oh, that smells nice. And I'm like, you're gifted. I find it fascinating. Because I'm like, how can he smell, but I can't?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:19Speaker 00

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• 17:47Speaker 03

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• 18:16Speaker 02

  And Alex is like, because people smell, babe. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't, he could have ended up like me. But he could, when I did the washroom with him, I'm like, is this fresh or dirty? And he's like, stinky mama. I'm like, thank you, darling. Like he helps me with the washing and like all that stuff. He's so funny and he can smell everything. He's so good. Oh, heaven forbid we go to the supermarket and the fish is laid out on the ice. I hate that smell, mama. Please, not the fish. He hates the smell of fish. And I'm just pushing him in the trolley thinking, now this is sick, this is so cool that you can smell.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, look at that.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  It makes me so happy, it makes me so happy. So I'm like living vicariously through him and his smell.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  And it shows you how much appreciation we should all have.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  The ability to smell.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  You know?

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  I love it for him.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  All right, so then if we can talk about singing.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Okay, so this is 13, 14, when you're dealing with scent.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Right? But between 14 and 17. It sounds like you've already started singing as a passion.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Right? At what point do you begin to think, I want to do this beyond just a passion?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Oh gosh, that one took me a while because I was quite shy. Like I was painfully shy, but I loved singing. So I was the type of kid that would lock myself in my room for hours until I could hit like the Christina Aguilera notes, the Celine Dion, the pink. Like I'd sit in my room for hours. It was like homework to me. If I heard a song and it had big notes and riffs in it that I wanted to kind of replicate, I'd be like, I'm gonna get, I'm not leaving this room till I get it. Like I would sit for hours and hours.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  By yourself?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  By myself, just singing. It was just the best feeling. Like it gives me a feeling like inside that just makes me feel like giddy. Especially when I hit the notes that I've been like practicing or whatever. So singing was just a passion that was like undeniable in my life. I just loved it so much.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Did you ever, and I'm sure you've thought a lot, a lot about this is, have you identified what the catalyst was? Right? Because talking, I've talked to so many incredible musicians, Youngblood, Jamelia, right? Cheryl Lloyd, right?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  And what I've noticed is this commonality around almost escapism. So almost a, I'm singing.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  To not do this, or singing because I don't want to be involved in this.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Or I'm singing to express myself because I can't do it over here.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Did you find that there was any link between your singing and something else happening in your life?

• 21:01Speaker 02

  I think just anything. Like, I wasn't academically bright at school. I wasn't interested in learning. Sounds terrible, but I wasn't. If it was music and dance and drama, I was like A star student. I got As and Bs in that. But maths, English, science, forget it. I was like bore off. I'd just sit with a bunsen burner and have a bit of fun, do you know what I mean? But I couldn't help it. It just wasn't there. I didn't have, I tried. It just wasn't there, whereas I knew singing was like my escape. It was my thing. It was what I was really good at. So I found that quite early on, luckily. But then I started to worry thinking, like, I remember sobbing that I failed my GCSEs.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  And my mom was like, it's okay, darling. You're gonna be a singer. And I was like, why are you such an irresponsible parent? I'm never gonna get a job. And she was like, but you're not gonna need a job. You're gonna be a singer. And I'm like, stop saying that. You don't know that for sure. Like, she was so chill. And I remember thinking, how am I not getting a bolicon right now if my mom for failing school? But she was like, babe, like, it doesn't matter. It's not the be all and end all. They're grades. I get it. Yes, I wish you did better and you probably are good, but you're so gifted and I know you're gonna make it. And I'm like, how many people say this to their children and it, do you know what I mean?

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  So I thought nothing of it.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  But isn't that interesting that you didn't, so when you failed those, which I didn't realize you did, right?

• 22:29Speaker 02

  I did.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, it's one of those where I could see you being scared of prospects, career prospects.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  And you're probably, what, seventeen, sixteen, seventeen?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, fifteen. I'm like a young, I'm a summer baby, so I went to prom and everything when I was fifteen.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Okay, so fifteen.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  But your mother believed in you to the point where she said, no, you're going to be a singer.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I thought she was nuts.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  At what point did you actually believe her?

• 22:58Speaker 02

  I think I, like, don't get me wrong. I can't sit here and be like, oh, I didn't know I was that good. I knew I was gifted with the singing, but I had no confidence whatsoever. So like, singing in school shows or talent shows, like, I would sing with my friends and it'd be a thing. But I would never, I was never one to grab the mic and be the center stage and be center of attention. That was my worst nightmare. I hated that. Yet my mom was constantly in the background, like, pushing and pushing and pushing. And I remember she took me to an audition in Sunderland for a West End show because I love musical theatre, like, I'm such a musical theatre geek. And she wanted me to audition and I was like, I don't want to do it. I'm embarrassed. I don't want to go. I'm really scared.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Like, I'm terrified. I'm not into it. Bearing in mind, musical theatre is so over the top and confident and you walk in a room and everyone, me, me, me, me, me, la, la, la, la, la. And I was just like, I remember getting my sticker with my number on. I remember thinking, get me out now. And I came, she dropped me off two seconds later. I'm stomping out the door and I'm like, I'm not going in. She's like, what do you mean you're not going in? I was like, you can't force me. And she was like, yes, I can. And I was like, no, you can't. And then we had a bit of an argument on the stairs. And then she was like, you have this gift and you don't want to share it with anybody. You're so talented. Why can't you see that? This is incredible. Your gift is, it's mind blowing. You don't see it.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I do see it, but I want to do it in my bedroom. I don't want to do it with people staring at me. And then X Factor dropped the age, because at the time, I think you had to be sixteen, seventeen or something to audition. And they dropped the age that year. My mom was like, I think you should go for X Factor. And I was like, not a chance. Well, she's like, look, if they tell you you can't sing and you don't make it, we've tried. I will leave you alone forever. I won't make you sing. If it's not what you want to do, fair enough. But please, can you just try so that you can hear from other people that you're good rather than me? She's like, because you don't believe me when I tell you that you're great.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  And I'm curious, was there anyone in your life at that point also saying that you were great at singing? Or was it only your mother?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  My dad, being a singer himself, he knew that I had a great voice.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  My brother always knew I was a great singer, but it was kind of just like us friends would be like, oh, my God, baby, I'm such a good singer. But it wouldn't be anything.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  It wouldn't be like, this is great. Like, my mom was my biggest cheerleader.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  So she wanted the world to like, she wanted me to showcase it.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Interesting, but it sounds like you didn't fully believe her.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  No, I didn't, at all.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  You thought she was just being mom?

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Like, everyone tells their kids they're special. I tell Axelie special all the time, which she is. But I was like, mom, you love me regardless. Like, you think I'm great, but I might not be that good. I know I'm good, but I don't know if I'm X Factor winning material good.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  And then just before the auditions, Newcastle cancelled. And she came in my room at four o'clock in the morning and she was like, your bags all packed? We're going to Glasgow. And I was like, I beg your pardon? She went, we're going to the X Factor auditions in Glasgow. And I thought, oh, she's still at it. She's still trying to push this. So I thought, oh my gosh, rocked out of bed, put a big jacket on with a big hood. Because I thought if any of my friends see me on TV, it's game over. So I put my hood on, went to the auditions, got through all the stages, got to the judges. And I was, I sung like Larry the Lamb. I didn't know I had such vibrato in me.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Really?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  I was that nervous and I've never experienced nerves vocally where I'm trying to sing something and my voice is doing something different. And I remember thinking, oh, God, I sound awful. So I don't know how I even got through. But I think they could see something in me, maybe. And then the further I got, and I remember, I'll never forget it, I got through and I got a no at bootcamp. And I remember ringing my mom and I was like, mom, come and get me. I hate this. Everyone's so confident and I'm just not. I want to come home. I've given it all. Please let me come home. And she was like, oh, darling, I'll come and get you. Where are you? Like, I had to tell her where the house was in the middle of nowhere for bootcamp. She was ready to come.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  And I rang her back and I was like, mom, I'm back in. And she was like, what? I'm like, they've told me I'm back in. I don't know why. Maybe they're gonna start making groups or something. And my mom went, do you know what, darling? If you're lucky and God is watching, you'll be put in a group. And I was like, thinking, oh, cheers, you don't, you've pushed me here and now you're saying I'm not good enough.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  I thought, you're a cheeky gal. But I knew what she meant now because she was like, you're so gifted, but you have no confidence. Like, I did not have it. So she's like, if you're lucky, they'll put you in a group. So try and get in a group. And I was like, all right then. And I remember getting put in the group and I was like, this new lease of confidence just came out of me.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  The moment, though.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Before your mom gave the prayer around you get into a group.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  You had been denied, right? So you were going home.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  How did you end up staying?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  So we got called back into a room and they were like, we're looking at maybe doing groups this year. Like, we're really keen on finding some groups, whether we have to make them ourselves or whatever. So we think you're all talented, but we're just trying to like work some things around. And we were in two different girl groups originally. So me, Jessie and two other girls were in a group. Jade, Leanne and another girl were in a group. Both auditioned again. We were put through so much on X Factor. We were here, there. We were thrown here, there and everywhere. It was a lot. It was definitely a learning curve for me.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  And again, someone who's not very confident, I was thinking, oh, my gosh, like, what is going on? And yeah, we eventually, we got nos again. I thought, I'm coming, I'm going, I'm coming, I'm going. And then they called four names on stage and it was me, Jessie, Leanne and Jade. And they just said, do you want to be in a group? And we were like, yeah. And then we won.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  It's wild.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Look at that. And if you want to hear the full, unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.

• 29:53Speaker 04

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• 30:23Speaker 05

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