Trewley Precious: The Real Cost of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives

Reality TV star Trewley Precious opens up about the strict family rules that shaped her childhood, the freedoms her brothers had that she did not, and the personal cost of sharing her life publicly. The Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives star and TikTok creator reflects on growing up with both Gypsy and non-Gypsy heritage, and the criticism she received after telling her family’s story. Raised on a council estate by a Gypsy father and non-Gypsy mother, Trewley explains why her estate became her safe space and how fear, loyalty and survival shaped her understanding of love and freedom. She also speaks candidly about leaving an unhealthy relationship, losing her father to cancer and entering Tempting Fortune during one of the most painful periods of her life. Trewley reveals why winning the show gave her the validation she had always wanted from her dad. Trewley explains how she pitched Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives herself, why the series sparked debate and why it represents her family’s experience rather than every Gypsy woman’s story. Raw, funny and deeply personal, this is a conversation about identity, grief, cultural pressure and breaking generational cycles. Trewley Precious, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussion of mental health. If you’re struggling, remember you’re not alone. You can find help and resources at the links below: MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Trewley here: https://www.instagram.com/trewleyprecious https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrewleyprecious (00:00) Intro (03:18) Trewley's Essex Childhood (07:01) Trewley's Gypsy Heritage (19:07) Paul Shows Trewley a Childhood Photo (21:40) Strict Gypsy Traditions and Family Rules (33:58) How Trewley Started Creating Content (50:38) Filming Tempting Fortune (54:34) Trewley's Dad's Death Impacted Her Family and the Gypsy Community (58:31) Shopify Ad (59:33) How Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives Was Created (01:01:33) The Positive Impact of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives (01:06:07) Trewley Reads an Emotional Letter (01:10:23) Behind the Scenes of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives (01:17:58) Trewley's Siblings on Filming Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives (01:25:56) Dating and Relationships (01:30:09) Mission to Change Perceptions of the Gypsy Community (01:39:08) Most Memorable Conversation (01:43:40) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Shopify: www.shopify.co.uk/needtotalk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Your family was on Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives. Are you the youngest?

• 1:04Speaker 03

  I'm the youngest and the prettiest, Paul. You've got to act that bit in, so it don't count. I'll let you re-say that. It's all right, Paul, we're friends.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  When you think about it, though, what has this show cost you and your family?

• 1:15Speaker 03

  God, who the fuck am I? I am a content creator. I'm truly fresh, get to know.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  You and your sisters, you say you're just like the Kardashians, but what?

• 1:22Speaker 03

  Fat, broken, on benefits.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  And so then, can we unpack your life?

• 1:26Speaker 03

  Baby, unpack it. Be prepared. Some people hear the word gypsy and straight away they just make some caravan jokes. We don't all live in caravans, you know? No, I've lived on my cancerous state my whole life. I always had the idea of loving videos. Also, it was like, Dad, I'm proving this. Like, validate me, love me, love before you go. So I had to learn how to perform and turn the pain into power.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  What about you and dating?

• 1:47Speaker 03

  What about it? I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger. You see it as home. So I just left him. A week later, I found out my dad's cancer's tambo. Sorry, I don't know where my eyes were in. When we had to say bye, it's weird because I just said, I was telling him to go, but I was begging for him to stay.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  But that's what I want to represent. I want to represent them girls that didn't have a choice, that had been in survival their whole life.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Truly, you're the type of person that comes around once every few years. Is there anything that you want to make sure we talk about in this conversation?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. I just want to make it clear that.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Look, pause with me for just a second. Today marks 100 episodes of We Need to Talk. And honestly, I just want to say thank you. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one, or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please, take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  I just basically binged the show, and the correct title of the show is?

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives, right? Very eye-grabbing.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Ear-grabbing.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Very clever.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Title, very clever, very clever. Lots of positive, but also lots of challenging commentary. Very successful show, right?

• 3:42Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  I enjoyed learning about you.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Your family and your community through this, through this project. When you think about it, though, what has this show cost you and your family?

• 3:59Speaker 03

  I feel like people are a bit late to the train. I've had this my whole life. So what it has cost me is a trigger. I feel triggered. I feel like I'm a little girl again, and I'm defending myself. My whole life, that's all I've ever had to do, is defend myself, what I am, like, who I am, what's happened to me. And then showing people who I, who I am off TikTok, people are offended. And I don't know why they would be, because the show doesn't say the secret lives of all gypsy wives. It's about me and my family, and I don't know why they're offended by truth. My dad is full, my mom is half, and I am from a poor estate. I'm not going to pretend I'm from somewhere posh, like, well, how would that work?

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Can we then unpack?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Your life?

• 4:44Speaker 03

  Baby, unpack it. Be prepared.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  You know, I can't wait to, I can't wait to walk down this path with you.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Right? And so, let's go back to where you were born.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  So I was born in Colchester Hospital. I was two months early. My mom had an abruption, and she hemorrhaged, and she almost died, and I almost died. But the doctor said that if she was in the car park when she come, we both would have been dead.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Really?

• 5:12Speaker 03

  So from birth, I was two months early. I didn't have a lot of oxygen. So they tell my mom, like, she's going to be very special, like mentally and physically. She'd probably not be able to walk and talk. And obviously, when you get told that by a professional, I can only imagine, like, my mom is still on my birthday, it's really weird to me. It's because of the PTSD she's obviously having in that month of it happening.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Can we talk about this?

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  All right, so this is, I didn't, I wasn't aware of this.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  So, all right, so are you the youngest? How many siblings are there?

• 5:42Speaker 03

  I'm the youngest and the prettiest, Paul. You've got to act that bit in, so it don't count. It don't count, Paul. I'm sorry. I'll let you re-say that. It's all right. It's all right, Paul, we're friends.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, you know, so.

• 5:53Speaker 03

  I'm still waiting for you to say it, Paul.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I haven't, actually, I think your brother is the prettiest.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  You actually weren't that? You're lucky I can't say what I can say, Paul.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  All right, so you are, according to you, you are the prettiest. I've seen all.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  According? Oh, I was getting real passionate. How is it, Paul? Paul, are you the people in my hate comments? You're in your crew?

• 6:16Speaker 02

  No, no. I just want to say, I've seen so many of your sisters. I think they are, they're all attractive.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I'm part of, like, it's not, I'm not cussing, they're stunning, but I'm stunning at.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  All right, all right, so, okay.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  I'm only joking, by the way.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  I know, I know, I know. So are you the youngest as well, or no?

• 6:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm the youngest. I've got nine sisters and I've got three brothers.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Okay, so nine sisters, three brothers. So what do you believe the impact of you being, it was a early childbirth, two months? How do you think that impacted your, your mother and your father?

• 6:52Speaker 03

  So my dad, God rest his soul, already lost a child when he was younger. She was two, she died of meningitis, bless her. And he was already mentally unwell from this, obviously, of course, and very protective on what we did. That's why even more, the rules were so like, you just feel like you're in a prison, this type of thing. And then my mom was just so traumatized by, obviously, the birth. Yeah, it could have been a fatal, fatal birth. And I think that's how, when you are just always traumatized, I think you just live in that anxiety or fear all the time.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  And like, I could go, I'm going shop, she'll go, be careful, I've heard people are kidnapping people from the shop. And I'm like, you're making that up. That is not real.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  It's just pure anxiety of her bird being at the nest, is how I could describe it.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  And I would also, and then you're her last child.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  So she didn't have any more children.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Did, was that?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  That was the cutoff.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Oh, that was, was that the reason?

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, she always says, I'd have had another seven children, I think, I couldn't. She went to the fore, she went, all that was going in my brain, who's going to look after my kids? I'm going to die, and my kids aren't going to have a mom.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Okay, all right. And we'll, we'll get into your parents, but just as far as where you're from. So that was Colchester where you were born. And then where were you then raised as a little girl?

• 8:12Speaker 03

  My estate, like, near Clacton. It's very, like, you know, a bit rundown and that, but you've got loyal people there, lovely people there. I don't see it as rundown, though. I know it sounds silly, because I know from the eye, obviously, it is. But to me, they've got what wealth I couldn't buy. They've got loyalty, they've got love, they've got time, they've got effort. I couldn't buy that. Paul, you're a very successful man. Could you buy that?

• 8:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Right?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  I mean, one is, I appreciate you saying I'm, I'm successful.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  You are, of course, well.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, you know, honestly, I always look at myself as, as trying to be.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  You know? And I can see that same hunger and hustle in you.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  Where did yours come from, though?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  I think it comes from where, where, the same thing, probably where it comes from for you, where I was born. Now, I was born in Jamaica, Queens.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  Put your back, Paul, go on. Say you were thrilled about it.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  I love it. Every time I say Jamaica, Queens, I want you to do that. So, you know, I was born in Jamaica, Queens.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  And then, you know, in Jamaica, Queens. There you go, I was testing you.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Sit like, sit like.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  I was testing you, I was testing you. But it was very humble. I think in the UK, it would be called a council estate. In the United States, it's called housing projects.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  Oh, the projects.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  The projects, right. And I think a lot of my drive came from seeing, not just seeing people not make it, but then also seeing people make it, but seeing people make it in different ways. How would you describe the area that you grew up in?

• 9:47Speaker 03

  What to like a stranger, like how I would describe it?

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Well, besides the obvious, like the obvious, like deprived and stuff, I'd say loyal, kind, funny, different parts of life. I think that's why I'm really grateful for it, because I wasn't the only gypsies on the, we're not the only gypsies on the estate. So, yes, there was some gypsies on the estate, there's also some gorges, which means like non-gypsies on the estate. There was, everyone just comes from different parts of life. Everyone's going through a different struggle, and I know it sounds weird, but I respected that.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  But I didn't have that weird judgment that people would think I would have. If anything, I admire the struggle, to be honest.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  All right. So you just said something which also is a term that I didn't know until preparing for you to come in, is you said there were some gorges.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, gorges.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  So what's that terminology?

• 10:43Speaker 03

  So that just means like, non-gypsy, like someone that isn't one. Like they'd say, you're a gorgia, they're a g- like, but it can be used bad. That's why I don't really, I've never used it bad. I always say, oh, my mom's a gorgia, because she's a non-gypsy. But people can use it in a racist term if they want.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Ah, okay, I didn't realize that too. All right.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  But it's all right, though, you haven't been, so don't think like you have, you ain't.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  Like, you can go, oh, she's a gorgia, that's just stating she's a non-gypsy, but if you were like, you dirty, that's, you're just giving it, that they're not like you from your bloodline.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  All right, I follow you, I follow you. And so then, you said your father is a...

• 11:20Speaker 03

  Gypsy.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Is a gypsy.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  So he, so now, help me with this part too, and I'd love to talk even more about this later, is gypsies, travelers, is it Romani and Romanai as well?

• 11:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they're, they're gypsies.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  Gypsies, and a lot of travelers are Irish. It's about just where they come from, like in their backgrounds, they're just different. But I get why people would get confused, because they do similar, similar things. But my dad was a gypsy, he was born in 1953, and he was born in a wagon, side of the road, in the woods, like near the woods. You know, he had a very, very strict and poor upbringing. His dad wasn't around, she was a very hardworking woman, she'd work the fields, he'd work the fields, but he had a, he had a very different, him and my mom had very different upbringings. My dad was this, like, a strict gypsy boy, could go out, he was first nicked when he was 10, 10 years old for street robbery.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Wow, okay.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Imagine that, being 10 year old, having to go rob someone because you're hungry. And that's what I'm saying, I've just been, I've been raised by survivors, and then people were angry at that, which is very confusing.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 03

  Because I admire them, I think they're insane. Like, all right, I'm not saying that they were, you know, you know, top tier, you know, you could never fault them for anything, but did they do the best with what they had? Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Your mother and your father, they met in, what, the 70s must have been?

• 12:46Speaker 03

  No, in the 80s.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Oh, in the 80s? Okay, so they meet in the 80s. I would imagine, though, that to marry outside, for your father to marry outside of his community, would have been a no-no.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely, of course it was.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  So how is it that they, that they met and fell in love?

• 13:06Speaker 03

  To be honest with you, my dad had other wives before my mom, right? And obviously, he met my mom, whatever. My mom, you know, no matter being a gorgia, she is a very prideful, strong, independent, wouldn't take shit, wouldn't, like, woman. My dad was obsessed with my mom. My dad loved my mom, no matter being a, like, not being a traveling woman or anything like that, because she still had traits of one. And he married other traveling women before that, they obviously didn't do a good job as my mom did, did they? Because he stayed with her, so. Sorry, I'm getting defensive about my mom, sorry.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  So you said your mom had traits of a traveler woman?

• 13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, tics, that's what I'd call them, like, little tics, that I think as a traveling man, you would like, like, my mom was very poor, deprived, council estate kid, yeah? But anything she got, she'd wash and scrub, clean, keep it nice and pristine, what she did have, even if she had to walk again the next day, she'd wash it and scrub it, always been very like, this is my home, this is my safe place. And, you know, it's actually quite nice, obviously, I miss my dad every day, but the one thing I do, I actually do love, I feel like my mom's a little bit calmer. Like, if there's a bit of mess, like, Paul, even having this drink here, me mum would have lifted that up, wiped all it down, scrubbed the table, breathe, like, do you know how hard it is being with someone, so manic, manic, manic, manic, just calm down.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  And now, oh, she ain't got to press, not impress my dad, because she was with him, but like, she can chill a bit, it's not, you know, you're not going to have a man coming and going, why aren't that done? Why aren't this done? Why aren't that done? Why aren't that done? You can just be women and be chill a bit.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Okay, I see it, I see it. So, so they fell in love then? And you said in the 80s. How hard was it for them to love each other? Because, you know, were their families in support of them being together?

• 14:58Speaker 03

  That's a very good question you just asked there, when you said, how hard was it for them to love each other?

• 15:05Speaker 03

  So my, my whole life growing up, like, mum's side hated dad's, dad's side hated mum's, that was kind of it, and we're the product of both, and we'd get it from both. You know, we weren't good enough for them, and we weren't good enough for them. So I just had to create my own lane. But my dad did, like, did love my mom, like, I can't say that. And my dad was a very, I'm not talking bad on him, I love him dearly, with everything, I miss him terribly. He, obviously, wasn't mentally well, and he wasn't my whole life, and, but, and after you lose a child, I feel like you can only love another child as much as you can until you're so scared of them being taken from you. But he loved my mom, like, with no doubt in my head.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. But can we explore their love? Because I think our parents' love often impacts how we view love.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  How we view sacrifice. And what I keep going back to is, I know from all the research I've read, that when women are in relationships where their family does not support it, then separation and divorce is abnormally high.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  And so, in the 80s, for your mother to be in a relationship with someone who is from a different community, and her family doesn't support that person or their family, it must be incredibly hard for her. Those circumstances must be very hard for her.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  I think that's why I'm so defensive over her, because I wouldn't let no one say what they've ever said to her when I weren't here. It's not happening, I can't have that, I'm not having, my mother is a good woman, a very good woman, and, like, sorry, I don't know why my eyes are hurting, but just having people say about her, it's been pretty hard, just because, sorry, just because the amount of times she's had to fight for who she is, and just having to always fight for her, and you think I'm going to let strangers go on her, it's not happening.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  It's always been us against the world, and it always will be, and everyone jumping on this hate bandwagon, you're late, you're late to the party, this has been happening my whole life.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Boring, yawn.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  No, I can see it, I can, and, and, and, oh, yeah, there's two.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Oh, you didn't tell me that earlier, did you? You want my makeup streaming? Ah, all right, you, I told you, it's higher in the comments.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  I didn't want you to put your makeup on that beautiful shirt there.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Thanks, Queen.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  The reason why I wanted us to begin here and spend a moment here is because your story precedes you. Right? And how you show up, how I show up, the foundations of it begin with

• 18:03Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  The people who created us.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Hundred.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  The circumstances they were under. And I can't help but think how hard it was for your mother. And to know that begins, I could begin to know you even more. You know? So clearly, your mother had it hard.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, very hard.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Sounds like your father had it hard.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  From both sides.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  But it was really hard for me to I do empathize with my dad, and I do, but I feel like where he's so I don't see him as this like flower. But my mom's a flower to me.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  I can see it.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  Even though she's like an explosive flower, but my dad was just this strong, military, like that's how he reminded me, just so stern, so strict. So like, not that I couldn't have that empathy for him, but I couldn't explore that empathy for him because he wouldn't let me.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I see it, I see it.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  Do you know, even on my dad's deathbed, this is how strong thing he was. He's in his deathbed, everyone's in the living room, all my brothers, all their friends who love dad and respect him, they're all between thirty and forty upwards, they're all in there like this. And I hear one of them go, do you think we should leave? Do you think we should leave yet? Do you think dad would want us to leave or stay? My dad, with all of his strength on his deathbed, god bless him, went, leave, like this. I saw ten men in their thirties and forties going, alright Sid, thanks for having us. Kissed them on the head and went, thank you, bye. They all left like children. Because they're all programmed too.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  And they're in their forties. And they're all like, literally, it was like if you went up now and I went up, it was literally like a program and it was so weird to see. We all went, okay. But from the men at least.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  That's what was weird. I was like, okay.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  But my dad had that authority. My dad was that man. And that's what's even harder when I read comments. That's what it's cost me. Because you can say what you want about me, I don't have to validate my identity to no one's. Do not lie on my dad, though. He's not even here, don't even. And the things they've said about my mom, my dad would start a war in the whole world over.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Can I show you something?

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. Can I put some lip gloss on?

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Sorry, I feel balls.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  Not to trick you there, Paul, sorry. I love you. Do you want some?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, you know, no, no, this is, what kind of lip gloss do you use?

• 20:24Speaker 03

  Give me, it's my one.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Oh, that's your one?

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  That's the one that you

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Your wife's, does your wife like lip gloss and that?

• 20:30Speaker 02

  She does, she does. This is the one that I saw on the show. That you and your manager was that, yeah?

• 20:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  I like it.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Thank you. I'm gonna get your wife one.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  You know, sometimes I put a little, not gloss, but, no, no.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Little bit, we'll cut that out.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Alright, I want to show this to you.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  Yes, show me.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  And I want you to tell me roughly,

• 20:54Speaker 02

  because so you're in this photo, so roughly how old you are in this photo and what you could remember, if anything, about this photo, what was happening.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  He looks so healthy.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  I just love my dad. I just loved him and

• 21:19Speaker 03

  some people might say like, you know, disciplinary, however you would want to put that, but I still loved him. He's all I know.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's you and your dad. How old are you?

• 21:32Speaker 03

  Probably like four.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Four.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  And how old do you think your dad is roughly in that?

• 21:38Speaker 03

  He'd be fifty-four.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Okay, there you go. And that's to your point?

• 21:42Speaker 03

  He was very, and that's another clash with my dad, he was older. So when he disciplined me, it'd be something really like to the people I'm raised with in this generation, it's weird. He's not from this generation, he's from years ago.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  So I had this like real like having to prove myself to my dad. I don't know, it's really hard because I just wanted him happy. I think he was

• 22:10Speaker 03

  a very sad man in pain

• 22:14Speaker 03

  from his losing his daughter.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  And, you know, when you haven't been taught how to regulate or to communicate, that can make you very angry.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  An angry man. And I feel like I dealt with a lot of that. But I love him. And I don't blame him. I love him dearly, I miss him every day. And I know what his ways are. And it weren't anyone else's upbringing, it was mine, so.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  What can I say?

• 22:46Speaker 02

  So how strict was your father?

• 22:52Speaker 03

  I couldn't, you couldn't say anything in front of him. He was so reactive, we couldn't say nothing. You just couldn't, like even if you were joking or swearing, he'd send you out the room. Or like, even that, like just like little rules, like if we were sitting here now and say you're my daddy, if his friends walked in and out, I'd have to get up and leave. I'm not allowed in the room with other men. Why would I be? It's like they see it. But then even that, I think, why am I getting kicked out of a room? Like, but I can only question this now my dad's dead. And even now, like I wouldn't ask me mom this. I wouldn't ask, because she's still here, I wouldn't disrespect her. But it doesn't make me, and that's why people, I think some people are always so contradicting. No, my whole life has been contradicting. And I need to figure out what I like and what I don't like. And what rules I do want and what rules I don't want, like.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. I can see, so even at this age, you're wondering why certain rules apply to you. Was there, did, and I would imagine there's a double standard. Probably to your brothers, not all the rules applied.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  The boys didn't have rules.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  It was just don't get nicked, don't fight. But, and if you do fight, don't get nicked. There weren't no like, right, you being at this time, don't be sleeping around, don't be doing drugs, don't be doing this, don't be, it was nothing. It was literally for us girls, don't do this, don't breathe a certain way, don't burp, don't do this, don't laugh at the dinner table, don't do this, don't do that, don't do that, duh duh. The boys got little things, you know, the boys were at the table laughing, they'd get disciplined. If the boys said something rude, they'd get disciplined. Like, alright, you've got a few disciplinaries. I just felt like I couldn't breathe. Felt like I couldn't breathe, I couldn't even go, do you know, I see some boys from the estate the other day, I used to play football with them when I was little. And they said to me, True, I've got so many memories of your dad. He was like, I remember, I'd have to come, there'd be about twenty of us coming to the door to knock for you, to prove that you were going out with everyone.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  And then your dad would go, you've got thirty minutes. And then they'd shout, because where I'd play, it has to be in voice distance.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Oh, I see.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  So he'd just shout, Truly! And they said, I just remember you going, boys, I've got to go, bye! And running home. Because I had to be in. Even though I'm, these boys are younger than me, these girls are younger than me. And they haven't got a curfew.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  I see it, I see it. How did, and I can hold on to that.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, thank you.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. And I'll give you all these at the end.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  I don't think you're gonna keep it, Paul.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  I might.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  You're gonna start saying, that's your dad, he's not.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Listen, yeah, and that's my daughter, there. It's my daughter right there. Now, those rules of you being within shouting distance, for example, did those same rules apply to your sisters?

• 25:25Speaker 03

  Yes, but it was a little bit different because I feel like my sisters were older. So me being the youngest with Honey, my other sister, she's the second from youngest, it was really amplified on us.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Like Honey was a young mom, she was a young mom at nineteen, like married at nineteen, out, you know, whatever. And my sisters were a little bit older, one of my older sisters isn't married yet, she likes tattoos and this and that. I could not walk in, I know to everyone it's like contradictory, but that is my life, like whether people like it or not. I could never walk in with a tattoo.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Are you joking? Just because Ruby does, that means I can? What does that mean? We've all got different expectations. And we have to fit that. Ruby would set expectations, she moved that box. She don't want to be in that box. She don't, she don't want to do that.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Okay, you're twenty-six, but quite honestly, you feel a lot more mature

• 26:12Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  than twenty-six to me. And it wasn't until, you know, I was in my probably late thirties, early forties, where I began to view my parents with more grace.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  And to know that they did the best they could with what

• 26:27Speaker 03

  They had.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  had and what they knew. And they grew up in different circumstances, where they were more so, I think, focused on survival. It's interesting, a lot of people don't realize this about me is, but I think this is the circumstances I grew up in, is I have a very hot fuse, hot, cold.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  So that's me at eighteen. Up to that point, there you go, there you go. I would fight all the time.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  All the time, anything would set me off.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Not because you wanted to, though.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, right, but I would fight all the time. But then I got to a place where I said, you know, I can't fight. Right, because the consequence of that is going to be, you know, I lose this project, my boys are out of school, this happens to me.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  And so it's responsibility. And I'm sure that responsibility, you're starting to get a lot of that right now.

• 27:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's hard because when my dad died, I said to him, like he was on the bed, and I said to him, like when we had to say bye, I just said,

• 27:29Speaker 03

  it's weird because when you walk into a room.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  And you were saying bye to someone.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  I was telling him to go, but I was begging for him to stay. It was really weird. And I said to him, go. I said, go and get your daughter. Go, go, just go, go and be free. It's all right up there. And I'll look after mum and the girls. And it's weird, but I felt it. Like when I said it, I was like, no, it's all right, dad. I've got it. Like, go. It's all right. I'll take care of him. Man, I don't know why I had that, because I'm the youngest, but I think I just wanna save my mum. I know that sounds a bit cliché, but if you knew how much she'd been surviving her whole life, you'd know what I'm saying.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  And I'm at a point where I've been surviving because my mum and dad couldn't break. I'm not blaming them, but they couldn't break that generational thing. And I have now. And this, this stops here. This isn't going further. We're not, I'm not being immune to things I shouldn't be immune to. I'm not surviving anymore. I don't have to, I don't want to.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Yes, you wanna thrive.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wanna thrive, not survive.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Um, that was powerful.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  That's powerful. So, school, like, how, how did, socially, how is, what was life like for you?

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Um, socially, I was actually right at school in the sense of, um, well, primary school is a bit different because my school was in the estate. So with that, everyone had their own struggles. No one cared that. I didn't even know that we were different until I got to secondary school. I didn't even know that me being a gypsy was different because I was on an estate where there's so much struggle. No one gave a fuck what we were. No one cared what we were. We didn't care what they were. They loved us, we loved them. That was it. So when I went to a secondary school, that's thirty minutes from where I live, and is quite a bit prestige from where I'm from.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  I was, mate, I might as well have walked around with a target on my fucking back. Like, but obviously I didn't, I'm just, I'm not gonna sit here and say I allowed people to bully me or whatever, but it doesn't mean I didn't have to always defend myself. Mate, I always had to be on guard. But everyone did, I say that, but people did like me in school. I won prom queen.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Did you? Of course you did.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Thank you, Paul.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, of course you did.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Don't insult me, Paul, go on now. Yeah, I won prom queen. I won, I won being the nicest student and that. So, you know, even though I did have challenges. And I, I will say this, Paul, when I was thirteen, I was sent, um, to Alaska on a TV programme for being naughty in school.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Really?

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  What, what, what is this?

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's called extreme schools.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Extreme, okay, hold on, tell me about this.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  So I was on C B B C, I was thirteen, and what actually happened was a boy scurfed my cousin up for being what we are. So when I found this out, I approached him, little altercation happened, is what it is. But when this happened, the boy grasped me up to the school. But when the altercation happened, there was no cameras. So when I went upstairs, I said, I don't know what you're talking about. And then they went, well, he said that he hit your cousin. And I went, you hit my cousin? I was like, oh, you hit my cousin?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  What?

• 30:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then they sent, they passed me a letter and was like, Trulli, will you think you need to apply for this? And they meant love me.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Okay, and so then you had to go to Alaska for a full year, or no?

• 30:41Speaker 03

  No, no, for like ten days.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  For ten days.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  And we was there. But even that was intense because I didn't know I was different at this point. I weren't awake yet, if that makes sense. So I'd go there and they'd be telling me I've had my makeup, I've got my hair, how I'm standing, how I talk. I don't, like, get your elbows off, don't do this. So I had people, I was really, I was getting the blueprint coming out of it again. I've got people judging me again.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  I've always been attacked. And I'm not saying that in a thingy way, but we have been. We've always been, had it from each side.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, from each side. I, I could see it. And, and so where, given all of this, right? I'm beginning to see at thirteen, fourteen, right, you're, you're, you're, you're liked, but you're also loathed.

• 31:26Speaker 03

  Loathed.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Loathed, disliked.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Right?

• 31:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I'm, I think people were intrigued by me because I think they liked my personality and that. But then when they know things, oh, she's from that estate, or she's half chips, or, like, it's a bit like, oh, you have them little things where they didn't just see me as truly.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Okay, so then where is your safe space at thirteen?

• 31:56Speaker 03

  I don't think I really had one.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  Um, not blaming my parents, I just think it was a very hectic house, very chaotic, um.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  And I had to navigate through that. And I think my parents were navigate children mentally in the sense of like they're navigating. You know how I said earlier, I see them as damaged teenagers. They, in my head, they're damaged teenagers who had loads of children trying to navigate it on their own. Who's both families hate each other. You can only imagine, what, what, what safe space? Where am I gonna go? My nan and grandads? What, so they can call me a gorgea? What, go to the other side? They can call me a dirty pikee? I love me. My safe space was that estate. Me going out playing football with all the other kids that were rejected. That was mine. That's where I could be funny, that's where I could be safe, that's where I could be a tramp, that's where I could be a gorgea, that's where I could be a pikee, I could just be me. I didn't have to worry about anyone. And they loved me for who I am.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  I can see it. And, and that's why you, because I see you, you rep your estate.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Like, you rep it.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  I think some people think, I had an interview the other day, and the man sort of like hinted that I was showing it to get like clout or like laughs in the thing.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  One, I've already got clout, doesn't make sense. Sorry, just saying. Don't make sense, Paul, right?

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Can I say that was nice?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Thank you. I've got clout, don't make sense.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  I'm going, yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Period, thank you, right? Secondly, I love my estate. It wasn't these gypsies dropping food off when my dad died. It wasn't these gorges or these high up influencers. It was the people from my estate waiting for their benefits to hit so they could drop me milk round. Because they knew we couldn't leave our dad's side, dropping cereal round. I even had,

• 33:45Speaker 03

  at the time, obviously, my dad was ill, so money weren't flowing how it was because the man of the house is dying. Um, and I even, I was doing gas and electric. I had a really good job. I had to quit it, work in a chip shop so I could be close to him. Um, I'd always bring him fish and chips home every night, whatever. And when my dad died, someone from my estate come round with an envelope full of five hundred quid and went, I wanna put this towards Uncle Sid's funeral. That's what, and we were like, no, no, no. He went, no, no, I want to. And that is why it's such a big thing for me to give back.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that's your heart. Your heart, your heart is in, is in the estate. I can see it. I can see it.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Hey there, I just wanna say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life, and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  So this is the part that I don't understand about your story.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Is so was it fourteen when you started to create content, but you didn't post it?

• 34:58Speaker 03

  No, I was younger.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  You were younger.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  I was about eleven.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  I always had the idea of loving videos, like seeing YouTubers, but obviously back then YouTubers were only online if they were established. So when I was thinking about it, I weren't established, I weren't known, I wasn't, I was a kid. And I was like, I'm gonna do that. And it like, you know, when you see something, you think, oh, that's what I'm gonna do. It was literally like a, oh, yeah, me too.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  But what was it that you thought, that you saw that you wanted to do? Because, you know, people get online and they do different things, you know? Some people, the focus is makeup, sometime the focus is comedy. Or, or we've had so many of these notorious YouTubers who are, they play games. What was it that you wanted to do?

• 35:36Speaker 03

  I think my motivation of it firstly was survival. I feel like I've, when I say performing since a kid, I don't mean in that way. But when you're trying to survive all different routes, you learn how to be funny, you learn how to block noise out. You learn how to ignore comments or getting hit or this and that because you're so immune to it. So mine was coming out of my immunity, I think, without even realising. I think as a child, I obviously thought, oh, we can do something else. But it was so frowned, like, my, my dad would never earn it. I didn't even prove it until he went away, until he passed, sorry.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Right. So, so that's why I'm so confused because I would imagine how strict the household was. That you, shooting a video, saying anything and posting it would have been a complete no.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it was. And it was for years and years. And then I hit about seventeen. And I just left college and I thought I really wanna do YouTube. Uh, oh, no, sorry, I just left school. And I thought I really, I really wanna do YouTube. And then I started doing YouTube, it was like makeup content, but my lot didn't take it seriously, like a career. Like, it's just a bit of banter, like, oh, she's gross, she ain't gonna say nine mental on there. And then I switched over when I was like twenty to TikTok. And it just blew, like, I found my audience.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  But.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  So when you switched over.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Right, was it makeup that you started at, doing?

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I started to do makeup and that, I really wanted to be like an M U A girl and that. But then I actually realised I'm funny. Funny, hot, like, do you know what I mean?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? Big list.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  I know exactly what you mean.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, there you go.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  No, but I mean, like, uh, that's what I'm saying about survival, like, even when I was in school, I've always been a chubby girl. I've been chubby since I was about six, so you can only imagine being a fat, cancelled state, pikey, half pikey, half not in the, in the school. Jesus, I, I walked in and they'd say, oh, you know, and I was a little bit slower as well mentally. And they'd tell me how fat I am, how stupid I am, all this, whatever, which is fine. But I had to learn how to perform and to turn the pain into power from young, in a sense of like, I remember being called fat and I was playing football. And I went, nicknamed me Big Blonde, so I was really young. Even then, being so young, trying to flip my script or being bullied, that's very, even though, oh, it's very clever though. Why are you, why are you six trying to flip a script?

• 37:56Speaker 02

  That's, that's very interesting.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  And that's what they'd say, they've got Big Blonde, then if someone called me fat, they'd go, duh, she calls herself Big Blonde, I'd just switch, I'd just switch the whole thing.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  So, so you switched it and you would say it first to beat them to it?

• 38:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had to, I knew what I was, I'm not stupid, like, you know, even now when people say things, I think, right? I'm not offended. Oh, you're a fat tramp from here, yeah. I know, you've got it on video. Do you know what I mean? I'm not, I, I've always been able to take it, that's why this hate is kind of boring, it's like.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  I, I, I find this so interesting, truly.

• 38:28Speaker 03

  Good, I'm glad you do.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, so, so much, so much.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  You're gonna need a bigger pad, didn't you?

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. I'm gonna need another iPad, basically. So, so then, when I hear you qualify right now, you talk about, um, say, your show. You talk about you and your sisters, you say, you're just like the Kardashians, but what?

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Fat, broken on benefits.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Okay, so when you say something like that.

• 38:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Are you saying it to beat the thought of other people? Are you saying it as a preemptive, like, defence mechanism?

• 39:02Speaker 03

  I've never explored it that way until you just said it.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Because of how you talked about how you would flip the script when you were.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Eleven thirteen, so it sounds like you've been flipping the script for the last ten years.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  My whole life.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  Your whole life.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've always had to flip it. I always have, do you know what I mean? Like, even just from that, I could play football with everyone after that. I could regulate myself, it wasn't about them, it was about me. I could handle what they were saying, cause I put it out.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Like, you said you're twenty when you get on TikTok?

• 39:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, around twenty, yeah.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Okay, and you said you found your audience.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Because your audience could begin to see you for more than just makeup.

• 39:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  What did they see?

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Just my life, how chaotic, how funny it is, and like, little things that I do, like, you see, like me walking benefit to the shop, you'd be surprised how many people go, man, I'm so good at that. Like, that, that's who I am, I've never worn shoes. I don't even wanna wear shoes now, can I take this off?

• 39:55Speaker 02

  You can take it.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  I'm so sick of acting posh around people. Get them off me.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Get those shoes off.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  You can wear.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Who needs shoes?

• 40:03Speaker 03

  In it.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Who needs these shoes? So, so, yeah, cause they, so, that was almost like TikTok, like, you literally took your shoes off, like, figuratively and literally, it's like you were just you.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there was, it was the first time someone went, wow, without, oh, well, you're, you're this, you're that. It was kind of like, oh, love who you are, and I was like, thanks, me too.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  What, what did you begin to show at twenty that you still, that you felt uneasy about? Because you thought your mother or father or family may become aware of?

• 40:38Speaker 03

  It wasn't about them being aware of stuff, because I'm quite open, like, I'm quite, you know, it wasn't like they were gonna fly and hang out about me. It was more of the sense, I didn't wanna disrespect them and their rules. I didn't wanna, you know, gypsies are very private anyway, I think that's why there's been like a big uproar and this and that. But I, we're still private, no one knows nothing about us. They think they do, cause what we let them know.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  Same as you, no one knows nothing about you, you let them know what you want them to know.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  You're a performer, you know what you're saying.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  You just hit a major milestone on your socials.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  I hit a milli.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Just a cool milli. So, this, so this is a million.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  People.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  A million people follow you.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  Just on TikTok.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Just on TikTok, you have a million people following you. What do you think that says about you and what you're doing?

• 41:28Speaker 03

  I'm just grateful I didn't change from who I am. Like, you get a lot of people, why are you barefoot, why are you this, why are you that, but, but, and I've, I've never explained it, I'm me. And them people that follow me see a bit of themselves in me, and I love that, I love that I can radiate to people if they're from bad backgrounds. Abusive homes, relationship, whatever you name it, like, and they can look at me and go, oh, she can make it out. And that's what's been lovely, even like, I was in that by the other day, Paul, yeah, I know you chucked my nails out earlier.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  I did, I did, I liked them.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Thank you, thank you.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  And this girl walked past, and I know her from the estate, she went, you're right, babe, I went, you're right? I'm not joking, so she went, here, got you this, pulled out an envelope, filthy, absolutely filthy, this envelope, I was laughing so much, cause I thought, how long you had that envelope in there? She went, I've got this for you, I opened it up and it's a congratulations card, yeah, for my show, which was lovely. In there was such nice, um, writing, and she goes, she goes to me, she gives me the card, thank you so much, cause my daughter watched it. And her daughter's a little black girl as well, which meant more to me, cause she's not even from my community or my culture. And she went, thank you so much for doing that, because she keeps saying to me, I'm gonna do this when I get off the estate, I'm gonna do this, I can do that just for, I'm from here.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  And just hearing that made everything just feel like, oh, that was right, oh, all right, cool. Because to hear the mum say thank you, she's got other options now, it's all I ever wanted as a kid. All I ever wanted was other options. And listen, I know travelling women have different options, yeah, they like to say that I said that they don't work. Course they work, my nan worked in the field, yeah, was, was the like, you know, picking all the veg and the fruit and that.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  And my dad would have to go with her, cause obviously she was a single mum, my dad and uncle would go with her. And that's, that's another thing as well, my dad always had it hard, like, even when he was a little boy, he had a, my dad was blind in his eye.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, he was?

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, but he had a scar like that, and I never understood what the scar was, I wasn't allowed to ask, I asked him as I got older. And he told me that he was working on the field with mum, and he put the knife in the tree, it was all like playing like on their break, whatever, as little kids. So, like, the tree shook or sank, the knife fell, they looked up, it went straight in his eye. So even from a young boy, and he'd never say about it, it wasn't a big thing. It was like, get over it, you're blind in your eye, get over it, you've been stabbed in your eye as an eight-year-old child, get over it. So that was my whole life of get over it, come on, get over it.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Even like, you know, my dad, my mum finds it hard to speak about it and this, not, she wants us to get over it. But it's like, we've gotta be strong, we can't be weak, we've gotta be, we've gotta be his, his, you know, his kin, his wife, his children, we've gotta be him. When I just, sometimes I wanna cry and be me.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So then, was it twenty when, is it tempting fortune?

• 44:19Speaker 03

  I was twenty-two.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  You were twenty-two?

• 44:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  All right, so, so now, would you say that that was the first big break for you?

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Um, it was, yeah, it was a very weird time, I will say that of my life, because I just left the only boy I've been with, I just left him.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, okay, so can we talk about that?

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  Okay, so then, when you are twenty on TikTok, at this point, you're not living at home?

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I am.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  You are?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  I am, but I've got a boyfriend, yeah, like, they see it as I'm married, so they see it. And I think this confuses a lot of people, but in our community, if you give yourself to a man without church, they just see it as marriage. A lot of my cousins, if they come in the room now, they'd go, that's my husband, da, da, da. Some of them aren't married in the church, but I would never be this, like, rude and disrespectful to not call them. If your wife come in now and you said, that's my wife, you're not for a church, that doesn't mean nothing to me, you've gave yourself to her, she's gave yourself to you, that's how I see it.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  So, I was eighteen, and then I left him when I was twenty-two.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  But even that was very hard.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Was this someone who your family introduced you to, or, because, because up until this point, it seems as if you're not allowed to talk to boys, you're not allowed to.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I, I didn't, I, I didn't like that, if I did, I'd play football with them, like, it wasn't on that level of we can speak sexually or emotionally, it wasn't that vibe at all. No, I was about eighteen, and like, I just see him and I asked him what his name was. And that was it, like, but he kept, at, at this point, I've never been in a relationship, I've never had a man touch me, I've never been on a date. Very like adult child, but child in the brain, I would say.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  And.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  He wasn't this aggressive travelling man. He wasn't this aggressive state kid. I thought, oh my god. That, that's what I want. And it, it weren't, it weren't what I wanted.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Did your parents approve of him?

• 46:21Speaker 03

  At first, I feel like some people, um, in, this does, you know, it doesn't matter what culture you come from. I think some people perform, but perform, I don't think they perform as their self. I think they perform as an identity that they wanna perceive, be perceived as. And I think that's what happened. And then he's, I feel like he studied me, studied my loyalty, studied how I think. And that was a very dangerous game for me.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. Did you then, um, did you then move in with him?

• 46:52Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't allowed because I wasn't married for church.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  And I weren't, I didn't have a baby. If I had a baby, they'd go, yeah, you, you go. I didn't have, I didn't, I didn't, and I'm the youngest, I'm not like doing that. Who's gonna kick our youngest out?

• 47:05Speaker 02

  Right. Did you consider that to be a healthy relationship?

• 47:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all I've seen.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  That's all I had done. Why would I think it was different to, because someone else did it to me?

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Oh, but it, but you're saying upon hindsight, it wasn't?

• 47:20Speaker 03

  What was it?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Your, uh, your, your relationship with the boy?

• 47:23Speaker 03

  What, was it more?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Was it healthy?

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, it wasn't healthy.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  It was not?

• 47:27Speaker 03

  No, but I didn't know different, I didn't know any different.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  And he led me in the sense of like, think, I've, I've never had sex, I've never, I've never done anything like that. He was the man entirely, like, and I just had to.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  I, I, I see it.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  It was clever. It wasn't in a way of like, oh, I'm this authoritative man. I think that's what was worse. Like, you know, if my dad said it, I'd expect it because he's true to who he is. Where on the outside, this boy's a wimp and a pussy hole. And then when it's on our own, you're not a wimp or a pussy hole. I'm confused.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Okay, all right, I see it, I see it. So, so then, when you were in that relationship with him?

• 48:06Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Did you think that was it for you? That you'd be in with him forever?

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Oh, forever. I would never, I wouldn't have gave myself, it took me a year and a half to give myself to him. I would never have gave myself to him. But I can't, I was a young girl, what do you want me to do? Like, I loved him, I was with him for four years, what was I supposed to do?

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  And I've, listen, I've always been taught to fight back. I've never been taught how to leave.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  So how in the world, given how you were raised?

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Were you able to leave that marriage?

• 48:39Speaker 03

  I felt like I was dying. I felt like I was dying in it, I felt like I was dying without it. But I, that part of me died then. That's obviously what that was. When I felt like I was dying, I was grieving something clearly that I was leaving. I had to get out there and I'm glad I did because I never thought I would.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Did you talk to anyone about leaving?

• 49:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Him?

• 49:03Speaker 03

  No.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  This is, and you're, you're in your twenties at this point.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, twenty two.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  And still, all of this weight you carry yourself.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  You don't talk to anyone about it?

• 49:17Speaker 03

  I don't really know how.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  What were you feeling in that relationship that made you know it was time to leave?

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Not to sound deep or make things whatever, but just saying it straight. I feel like when you're in time, think toxic, especially if you're immune to what's going on.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  And it, your brain is starting not to feel right, even though this is your normal surrounding. I felt like I was fighting against myself as well. It was really like, I felt like, you know, I couldn't accomplish, my mom and dad were married over four years. I couldn't even do four, that's what I was thinking. But then I also, now I'm awake, I think, well, he know, he knew that I would stay through anything. So he put me through everything. And that's okay because it would never happen again. I'm not that girl, like, so even when you're saying to me, oh, can't you speak on it? I can't, I'm not that woman anymore. And it is hard for me to speak on it because I feel childlike.

• 50:22Speaker 03

  And even though, yes, I was a big grown woman, twenty two year old, I didn't have the same experiences twenty two year olds have. Twenty two year olds my age, sorry, at that age, have slept with people, done night, one night stands. Not that I want that, but I'm saying they've had so much experience with the outside world that is probably a little bit dangerous to mine. But it was easier for them than it would have been for me.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, I see it, I see it. Um, I won't ask any more detail, but I just have to generally.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, sorry.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Understand is, in that relationship, were you in fear?

• 50:56Speaker 03

  I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger. You see it as home.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  And to me, I was at home.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Okay, I see, I see. So it was, I would presume it was toxic, it was unhealthy, as you mentioned, but it felt normal to you? Because that's what you knew outside of it.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Well, I feel like if you've been treated a certain way your whole life, when someone comes and says they love you and treats you the same way, why wouldn't he love me?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Right. How old were you when you got out of that marriage?

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Twenty two.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  You were twenty two. So is that right before Tempting Fortune?

• 51:38Speaker 03

  Oh, Tempting Fortunes, I look back now and I think was such a healing thing for me just because I'd just left him. A week later, I found out my dad's cancer's terminal. And then two weeks later, I got a message from Tempting Fortunes. They approached me saying that they want me on the show.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Can I ask though, because I could see that this time, is that you just want to escape?

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  You just want to get out.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  But your dad has just been given, was it six months?

• 52:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  To live?

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  So you're told, your father has six months to live.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  But then you're offered a show.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  That was, is going to take you away for a full month, isn't it?

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  No phone?

• 52:19Speaker 03

  No, nothing.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  How did you make, how were you able to make that decision?

• 52:23Speaker 03

  I asked them, I asked them. And this was my, and I completely understand, you know, from someone's outside thinking, like, well, I wouldn't be leaving my father. I would, and I completely get it. I was at the side for two years. This was the one chance, he's been dying for two years.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Okay, I see.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  It's just now, it's six months.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  This is my one opportunity, I've been through things, no adult, no woman, no man should go through in these four years repeatedly. And now I'm out and I'm like, where, someone grab me, I need saving. That's it. And they, they, that's how I felt. But I was obviously just very vulnerable. And I asked my dad and it was, and my dad hated all that TikTok shit. Oh, I hated all that, absolutely hated it, couldn't, wouldn't want him in one, giving it, all of that. And then this was the one time for me, I can prove it to my dad what I am. That's how I see it. It wasn't that I was leaving my dad, it was like, dad, I'm proving this. Dad, look, look, I'm, I'm, I'm you, I, I'm, I'm doing this, like, validate me, love me, love before you go, do this before you go. And I remember doing the show and I loved it.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  I had no phone, I had no worry, just for that one minute, I weren't a nurse. I weren't getting, I weren't breaking up with someone. I weren't a half gorgeous, half, but I was just truly in a jungle show, having fun. That's what I was doing. And then I come back and I run my mom. And I said, after a month of us not speaking, she was crying. And I said, I'm really scared to ring dad because I, I think he's dead. I don't want to ring him. And she said, he's alive, he's waiting for you to call him, he's downstairs. And I was really happy and I run him. I said, I did it, I won twenty grand. He went, I go on my big yell, I take off my first laugh, boy, all this.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Just shouting, hooting on, he's dying, he's jumping up in his chair, like, you don't think, fuck it out. And I was so happy, that was the first time I could prove it and I proved it. I did it. I've worked all these years doing TikTok videos. Even then I was popping, I had like three hundred thousand K, it still wasn't enough for him.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I see it, but now I see it.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  I see it, you went out there.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Be like, look at me.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Look at me.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  Dad, I'm repping you, I'm out here.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  And you won.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  You won the show.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  You won twenty grand.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  You tell him.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Did you feel as if he was proud of you?

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I felt more, well, it's hard, isn't it? Because they hold their pride, like, obviously he was like, yeah, like cheering. But when he passed, the day before his funeral, um, obviously, like I said, he comes from the gypsy community. Few of his gypsy friends come around, like, who we'd call our uncles, yeah? That's a respect thing, yeah? So my dad's, like, my uncles would come around, whatever. And one of them went, what one of yous did that show? It weren't out yet? It's been aired yet, he died before it aired. And I didn't get the money yet either. That's why it was harder because I had to bury my dad with no money. I didn't have no money, like, um, but whatever. And they come in and he said, what one of yous did the show? And I went, oh, me. He went, oh, he couldn't stop talking about that. He went, he was so gassed, he went, he told all of us.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  And just for that minute, I thought, you don't even know what you've just done for me. Like, you've just gave me that thing of like, oh, yeah, he loved what you're doing, keep going. Before he went, like, bear in mind, it's like the captain of the ship telling you to steer a ship this whole time. And you're going, I can steer, I can steer. And then he's gone, just before he's gonna go, oh, she's a perfect captain. That's what it felt like.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Wow, well said.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is literally how I felt.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  I could feel that.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  I could feel that.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was cool.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Did, and I can understand how stoic your, your, your father was.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Did he ever tell you that he loved you?

• 55:58Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, but like in different ways, like, like I said, there was a very, he already had certain issues mentally and stuff. So like, even if you hugged him, he'd go, all right, big girl, ah, tap on your back. All right, big girl, that's enough. Come on now. Ah, get over here, big girl. You know, I love you. Go on. It'd be like a, oh, I'm, I'm a thirteen year old saying I love you to my mum. It was that vibe. But I know he loved us the best he could.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  He's, he's lost a child, died, died in his arms. Well, um, what more, looking back, what more could I expected from what he gave me? What, what other life? He's, he's been, he's been betrayed. He's been heartbroken. That's something you can't turn back from. And self, I look back because I think I'm so selfish, wanting something from a man he can't give me. But he gave me everything else and I'm grateful for that.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  And I love him, but I, I don't want people thinking I'm mugging my dad off. I wouldn't. I love him. No matter what his like traits and all, whatever, I love him. And I don't feel like I, I feel like, being honest with filming, filming's made me grieve. Filming's amazing. The people, the, the crew, the production company, amazing, but they were asking me questions I've never been asked. Uh, we've been raised like, we don't talk about emotions. I don't know how to regulate. That's what makes it harder as well. I don't know how to regulate. I don't know how to communicate. So I had to learn that. So to have a crew come in and be like, how did you feel when your dad died? Or how did you feel when this happened? I go, my whole, I, it's like a fight or flight. I like freeze. I don't know what to, I don't know how to regulate that. I don't know how to speak on that without like, sound like I'm cussing someone out.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Right. You just were filming it last year, right?

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, last month.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Or last month.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  So, so before you even get the show,

• 57:39Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  your father passes,

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  you're probably trying to figure out who you are and what your identity is.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  But from what I understand too is, doing the research is, there was also a freeing that happened to you around this time.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it sounds weird because I'm missing him every day. I'd love for him to be here. But when you have someone control, like even what I would eat or what I would do, like even down to eating would be under his control. And to not have that was like, like, do you know what I mean? If I wanna go get a bag of crisps, I'll get a bag of crisps. If I wanna go, just something so small. Yes, there was a part of me that was freed. There's also a part of me lost. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, my mum describes it perfectly in the show. She says, I feel like I'm a bird and I've been in a cage a long time and someone's opening the cage door. I'm too scared to walk out.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Hmm. What, yeah, I'm curious, what are things that you could do

• 58:33Speaker 02

  once your father passed that you could not do when he was alive?

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Not leave the living room when men walk in, not, like even like our toilets. We've got a boy toilet and a girl toilet. Men, men aren't allowed upstairs in our house. That's always been a rule, no men upstairs. Like whether you wanna use the toilet, whether you, nothing. Even when we'd film up there, I'd have to ask for his permission of my mum. And I'd have to tell her what I'm doing in the scene, who's in, who are the camera crew, like obviously she knows them, but I'd say, yes, the man, Harry is the cameraman today and Martina is the other woman. She's in there. She's a woman. She's doing it.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Because you used to remember, my mum, a lot of people, people love to say like, what a big, my mum's been with my dad forty years. Obviously she is going to have the same sort of program and she met him young. She met him as a child. What do you think's gonna happen?

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  So.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  I see it. I see it.

• 59:24Speaker 02

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• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  How does this show come about? Right? Because

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  I can't wait for you.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  From, from, from a career standpoint, you are, you've just won a Channel Four show, Tempting Four.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Tell them, Paul.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  This is good.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  You know.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  You, you, you won, you, your TikTok is, how big are you on TikTok at this point?

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Or at what point? Sorry.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Uh, this is before you get the show.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Oh, before this show?

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  By nine hundred thousand? It's all right.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, just a few people, just a few people.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  I've got a bit of a community behind me.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Little, little community going.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  And that's what I love about it even more, Paul, just the care of think up. So many people and that and have been going, oh my god, Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives, why didn't they use full bred gypsies? Why didn't they use this? I tell you why they didn't, because it weren't their idea. It was mine. All right, Paul? They're all right. That's why. So there's a lot of girls doing videos that are like, I got picked for the show. I turned it down. Well, you didn't get picked for the show, darling, because I pitched it and I picked me and my sisters. It was about me being from a poor council estate. My dad is a gypsy. My mum is a gorgia. I live life on social media. My family have different mixtures of traditions from both cultures and it's a clash. Let's record it. You're gonna love it. And they did. They did. So there was no other gypsies involved.

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  I didn't name the title that. Channel Four changed the name. I don't know why I have to state it because these Senders people, like who work on there, don't have to say that they didn't name me Senders.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  Right. So I don't know why I have to state, I didn't do that, but I didn't.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  So, but this is brilliant though. You pitched the show.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  I pitched it myself.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  So let's talk about some of the impact that the show has made.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Yes, three million.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Three million. People have what? What is it? Watched it. Okay.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  But the second episode's out tonight.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  All right. So just, so just so far, right, three million, right? It's doing quite well on Channel Four.

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  I'm not counting, but.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, but of course, of course, you have to count. You have to count. Numbers are important. So you have to count. So what to you has been the biggest surprise on the upside with regard to the show?

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  How much love I have got from people that are half. Because I know that it's really, I know that some people are ashamed or like feel like they can't be both. You're only in this one box and that's it that you've been put into. Um, and that's what I love. I love that they've come out and they're like, I've been ashamed about it my whole life, but I ain't got to be ashamed. They're saying it. So I'm all right. I'm half. There you go. I'm gypsy from me mum's side. Now what? And I think, yeah, that is what you should be saying. What? Like you are that. You're all of them things. I ain't just got to be one thing in a box. I'm this, I'm that. I'm not an onion. There's so many layers. There's too many layers to me.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  So you feel like

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  I don't smell that one though.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  No, no, no, you don't. No, you smell great.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  So you, you're, you feel like you're inspiring a whole group of people who see, they see you in them. Or I'm sorry, they see themselves in you.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  They see themselves in you.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I want that. Like when a kid, from like little things we spoke about, do you think I ever looked on the telly and I thought, saw a woman that looked like me? Or do you think I looked on the telly and saw like someone that's from a deprived area that ain't getting taken the piss out of? Or no, I didn't have that. I didn't have none of that. And that's what I thought. There's probably a lot of girls like that. Like even like yourself, you're from a different culture. There's probably people you know that probably wouldn't accept people that are mixed. They probably wouldn't. That, I think that comes with any culture, like in general.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  But you were probably very inspirational for people from the black community who come from the projects, who come from that and think they're not gonna be like, you represent that. And that's what I wanna represent. I wanna represent them girls that didn't have a choice. I wanna represent them girls that had, had been in survival their whole life, that they think this is it. And it's not. It's okay. And it's all right that you still got them survival instincts. It's all right. You're still, you're learning. It's okay. You ain't got to be horrible to yourself. That's what I have to say to myself. You're in your twenties. Stop being horrible to yourself. You're a young girl, figuring life out without a dad. You're figuring it out. Be nice. And that's what I want for them, just it's alright, even if you ain't got it figured out. There's girls in their thirties that ain't got it figured out. We're winging it, it's life, no one's got a rulebook for this.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  Like, I didn't know there was a life rulebook or a gypsy rulebook. Do you know what I mean? If you've got one, send me the book, Paul, do you know what I mean?

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, no, I love this, I love this. So now, on the show, there are many, uh, I don't wanna say characters, cause they're real, I put they're characters. There's many people, right?

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  Meant it, wouldn't they?

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  Because, I mean, some of them. So, so you have yourself, and it's really centred around you.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  Is it? Didn't know.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  I'm sure you, you had no idea that it's centred around you.

• 1:06:04Speaker 03

  Cut the cameras.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  And then you have your family.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  Right, clearly.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  And then you have a, a best friend.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  James.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  James.

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Alright, so, so when did, when did you connect with James?

• 1:06:17Speaker 03

  When I was twenty.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  I was twenty, I was doing like, I was trying to do TV work, but I was a little extra and sank. But that was a big deal for me, cause obviously, even when I'm out of state, you're not an extra. You could never see yourself on screen, let alone being an extra. So, I was there, and this boy come over to me, I was, I was in a relationship at the time, and he come over, and he was like, let's, he was getting pictures of everyone, it weren't a deep thing, he was just showing that he's an extra too. We got a picture, me with my banter, I joked and was like, don't tell everyone I'm your girlfriend. I've got one, like, do you know what I mean, I played, yeah? And James went, I'd never even spoke to James, he come out of nowhere and he went, in it, he wishes that you were his girlfriend. I went, in it, we've been friends ever since.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  Just like that.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  It was like, he was horrible and I loved it. I was like, in it.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  And so, so you, so he must be super proud that you're doing this show.

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you see when me and James met, like I said, we were extras, and we made a pact to each other. Whoever makes it first, the other one comes with. We made that. And he says it to me every day, he goes, thank you, I love you, and all this stuff. But that's my loyalty, that's who I am. If you're with me at the bottom, why would you not be with me at the top?

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, I can see it, loyal is definitely a value, or loyalty, should I say?

• 1:07:28Speaker 03

  That's the only thing I've got about me, I ain't got money, I ain't got this, I ain't got that, I've got loyalty.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  I have a surprise for you, you ready for this?

• 1:07:34Speaker 03

  No, don't, cause I love surprises, I love stuff and things.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  No, this, I think you will love.

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  This is, this is really good, alright.

• 1:07:40Speaker 03

  Okay, shall I close my eyes, shall I make it intense?

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, alright, ready? Alright, close your eyes, you have to trust me, hold, hold out your hand, alright, yeah, like that, okay, ready? I want you to...

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  That's a surprise, what do you think that is?

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  It's an envelope, isn't it?

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  Has it got cams in it, ain't flicking off, I think.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Alright, so, open your eyes.

• 1:08:01Speaker 03

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  And I would love for you to read that.

• 1:08:05Speaker 03

  Read it out loud?

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  To my best friend, soulmate, and forever person truly precious, I wanted you to know how incredible I think you are. From the moment I met you six years ago, I knew by instinct connection we could be soulmates. Your courage to stand for what you believe, your boldness and bravery in life is something that I think is so admirable. Seeing a version in of you that only family get to see is breathtaking, but besides your work, your followers and your social, is a girl who's fighting,

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  who's fighting hard and prov- sorry, and showing up to provide for all of her loved ones. Making moves and setting the tone TP style. Your loyalty to your family is something that I honestly think's extraordinary, you wake up every morning, no matter what the world throws at you, you make sure you're always loyal to your own, you're the woman who holds the glue for all of us. You're loyal, loving, brave, and most importantly, Miss TP. Brackets, iconic. I can hear him saying it, sorry, that's why it's funny. Um, from meeting you to becoming best friends, to watching you on this journey has been the most breathtaking, magical thing I've ever experienced. This is something that isn't luck, or is the universe, this is you. You've changed the lives of so many people by simply being your unapologetic self.

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  You've worked so, fucking hell, he's wrote a lot, I'm dyslexic as fuck, there's so much, right? You've worked so hard to get where you are, and I hope you are just as proud of yourself as we are. You really are something truly precious. I wanted to take a moment to mention

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  your daddy, as

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  he would be proud, and is proud of the woman you have become. He has supported his home and his family. I know he thanks you every day for looking after his wife and his kids, and his grandkids.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  You have, you may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life.

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  No problem.

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  Um, sorry, I can't see. Looking after his wife and his grandkids, you may have been, you may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life. But I know he's up there telling everyone how amazing his miracle is. He's thanking you every day for taking on responsibilities when it's never been expected or asked of you. I'm honestly so excited to see what you bring next for Truly Precious. This is your journey, your story, it's only, only the beginning. Whatever happens next in your life and career, I'll always be by your side, holding your hand, hyping you up. Every step of the way, I'm never letting you forget how proud we are, you really do look up to your name, Truly Precious. I love you so much, my darling, I can't express how proud I am of you. Six years ago, yesterday, today, and forever to go. You've earned milestone, you've hit, and it's going up from here. All my love, James.

• 1:10:49Speaker 03

  Wow, now that, Paul, was a surprise. Wow, what a lovely message, can I keep this, please?

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  You absolutely can, I'll hold on to it, and then I'll give it to you.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  At the end, I thought that was beautiful.

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  That was very lovely.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  I see, how dare he make this podcast about him?

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Are you joking, cut it!

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  I tell you, we could really make it about him, because that is, that's, that's you and James.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  Yes, I love him, he's great, he's amazing. And when I met him when I was younger, yes, we had that instant connection, but Ja- he wouldn't mind me saying this, he, he says it on the show. James don't have family like that, so when I met James, I guess we were both kinda lost. I was in a relationship that I couldn't scream out that I wanna get out. Um, I was still under my mom and dad's rules. And James was just this boy that was like, young, you know, naive, no family, sign Essex. He didn't even know what gypsies were, which is quite funny, he does now, I tell you now, he does. But like, he, he's been amazing, and like, I lo- what I love about James, you know that in life, you know, you meet people and you can go to someone, oh, I, I don't like that, like, you might have to teach them a certain thing or a boundary.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  I, we are so close, if he run me and said, oh yeah, don't say that, you gotta be da-da-da, I'd go, oh, sorry. Like, it's just so, there's just so much love there, that anything, if he said negative, all that love would override it, it would never be intentional.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  True best friend.

• 1:12:14Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  So this is your best friend?

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, James is amazing.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Speaker 03

  He's great.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  I can see it, I can see it. So now, James is on the show with you.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  You have, uh, your, your family, right? Can you walk us through some of the behind the scenes? Because so many people would love to know what happens behind the scenes. What, what do you think people would be most surprised about to know, just about the filming of a TV show?

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Well, I think people are surprised that ours is real. Like, I've seen a lot of comments, it's like, oh, some of this is staged, some of this is this, and I think, oh my god, my show must be popping. Like, for you to think I'm staging, saying, wouldn't I have something more staged? Like, baby, I'm walking barefoot with no bra onto the shop, wouldn't something else be happening? Do you know what I mean?

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:00Speaker 03

  Like, but, I, I love that, I love that, I love the crew, they were so lovely, so nice, and, you know, I had to not like warn them, but I had to say, listen, there is a culture clash in here, there's certain things you can say, certain things you can't. You know, just take it with a pinch of, a pinch of salt. They were so, just understanding, like, everyone saying, said that was ignorant, what you think, no, no, no! And they're like, it's alright, like, it's okay, we, you've told us, we know. You know, like, that understanding without having to overly explain my whole life and defend myself again?

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:30Speaker 03

  I didn't have that.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:31Speaker 03

  And I loved it, I could just work with them, and they knew who we were, they knew what we are, they loved us, they were our friends. Like, I've bought, one of my producers is pregnant, I've bought a baby stuff, like, they've bought me handbags for doing the show, like, they genuinely love me, and I love them, they're so kind. I've never been around gypsies, like, mainly are with themselves, they don't have like, I don't know if you know that, but like, where there's obviously so many of you, you mainly just get raised together, so I was very lucky to have my sisters and my brothers as my best mates. But, to come out of anything of that was a bit foreign to me, even having James. James is the only, James and Robin are the only friends that we're all friends with. And we're all friends with them, they're family friends, they're not just my friend, do you know what I mean?

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  And...

• 1:14:14Speaker 03

  To have that with the crew was so nice. They're so lovely, like genuinely. And like you've been in this industry. How hard is it to like you say your vision and you've got to trust them with what they're saying? Because they could manipulate this, they could change this whole thing for me. And I've just signed up to something that they're not actually agreeing with with me. And they didn't, they portrayed it even better. They made us look good. If everyone thinks we're shit, Jesus, we should see what we actually look like.

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  So this right here is what I think people most often say when they're on a TV show is that the end result is not what they felt was happening in real time.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  Oh no, this was exactly that.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  But for you, you're like, no, this is exactly what was happening. That's great.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  I think they even made us look better than what we were. Like we've argued, obviously, listen, the crew with us for almost a year. Like we filmed a pilot last March, so on and off I've been doing this for about a year and a half. But actually like consistently it was from September last year. So for about 10 months straight, they're at our house. What could we fake? You're there 10 days, sorry, 10 months straight. What could we fake? There's only so much I could put a persona on.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  You're with me 24/7, like from when I wake up to when I'm going to bed, like I need to go.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  But that, I mean, that's heavy, like 10 plus months. Um, how did your sisters and your, and your brother, it's one brother, right?

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  I actually have three brothers.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  Three brothers, okay.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  But one wanted to be in the, be in the, they're quite, they're quite um private travelling men, like gypsy men.

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  All right, so this is exactly where I was going is that how did they feel about the filming the show? And having to, you know, allow cameras into their home?

• 1:15:49Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna lie, Paul, we're friends, so I'm gonna be honest with you. They didn't have a fucking clue until I said, listen, I'm filming, saying, I just need yous to be in the back. Because listen, if I sit here and we've got a TV show and we're doing this, they're gonna freak out. They're saying their world, yeah? They're gonna freak out like animals. Where if I sit and go, I'm filming, saying, yous are just there, they'll go, oh. And then they'll just talk shit and they naturally will talk to me. Naturally, it's natural, we're natural, we're naturally mental, so it just might as well film it, do you know what I mean?

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  So you set them up? You set your family up? Yeah, that makes sense, yeah, yeah. That's what you do to families, you set them up.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, but in a good way, Paul. Don't feel like I set them up to get jumped.

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  Right, no, no.

• 1:16:28Speaker 03

  I've got them a career, Paul.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  I mean, they all have, I mean, I, I would think that, they, they must be proud.

• 1:16:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, but like it's hard for them as well because they've got the same upbringing as me. So when they're seeing people giving it, they think, lovely, let's get into this, do you know what I mean?

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  Whereas like girls, no, we are getting a new life now, we don't need to do this. We don't need this, we've got better things coming. I see it as we're getting tested by the universe, like we really deserve these things, which we do. So I need to be mute, I need to keep it cute being mute. It's hard though, because I just wanna go.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  It's hard, it's hard. Can I ask too, is what about the, the estate? Because, you know, you're filming on the estate.

• 1:17:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:07Speaker 02

  Right, how did the community feel about you filming?

• 1:17:10Speaker 03

  They were fine.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  They were cool, okay.

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  Because I think because they know how much I big them up on TikTok and how much I actually love them, like that isn't a facade, if there's a camera there or not, if I make, if I, uh, sorry, if I had dinner made and there's leftovers, of course I'm knocking on my neighbour's door if they want to scroll. They ain't eating, do you want something to eat? Like my, my neighbour Debbie, she makes cheesecakes for us randomly when she bakes, that ain't fake.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:17:34Speaker 03

  We're a community, if one of us is eating, we're eating. If one of us, do you know what I mean? That's why when I got paid, when I got paid for the brand deal, that's when I, on the second episode, I give out, I feed all the estate kids on Halloween. I did it on Halloween because I've been an estate kid myself on Halloween. I know what happens on Halloween, you probably know what happens on Halloween. And I thought, I need people to be safe, I need them to be okay. I need them not to feel pressured if they've got to go and do something on Halloween with other groups of kids.

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  And I gave them a safe place. I did a TikTok, I didn't put my address out, it was literally from my estate people who know where I live. I said, I've got 200 hot dogs, I've got marshmallows and I've got hot chocolate. If you need somewhere to go or you're hungry or you don't want to be on your own, whatever the situation is, come to the garden. Paul, there was over 200 hot dogs I gave up.

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  See, that's how you do it.

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  And that's how you do it.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  You know what's so wild is I didn't even realise there was that connection from the States to the UK on Halloween. So tell me, because I'll, I'll be honest with what happened.

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  So I remember Halloween, what Halloween used to be was people in my neighbourhood would go steal candy from other people, they would stick people up during Halloween and bring it back. Is that what, or no, it's different?

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Epping, breaking, toilet paper in the houses, maybe plotting on a house, like scaring people.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:49Speaker 03

  Or like touring, saying, like whatever, just the States though, like, you know, or they'd be out on them bikes, balled up scaring ya, or setting the fireworks off on a bike.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  But to me, that's nostalgic, I know that's really stupid, but that was my childhood. But I also had to think as an adult, so that's also was hard because there's two parts of me. Like I said, my blueprint is like, that's so fun, I would have gone and mowed a bike and set fireworks off, that's jokes.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:19:13Speaker 03

  Then there's the adult part of me that's like, and what happens if someone gets hurt? And then what happens if someone gets nicked? Then what happens if this turns into World War III and now they're petrol running each other's houses, then what?

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Can we talk about your siblings just for a second more?

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  Right, because they are more than a supporting cast, like they are major players.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  They're literally the show.

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're, yeah, they're, so if you, if you were to give me a sentence about each sibling, what would that sentence be?

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  Okay. Um, what is in describing them?

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, from your perspective, who are they?

• 1:19:47Speaker 03

  So Jamie John's my elder brother.

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  He's like the golden boy, could do anything wrong.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  I, I love him, by the way.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's great.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  No, and he is actually a really good brother. And that's another thing that I found really sweet, sorry to change it, but my brothers have always been these strict gypsy men. That I couldn't really like be, not like feminine, but I couldn't in that way around them. Like if I was sad, it'd be like, what are you crying for, you're pained, you stop crying. You sort of get like snapped out of it like a boy, we was, emotionally we were treated like boys, I think. But when my dad passed, I guess there wasn't this high standard of like matching my dad, like matching the alpha.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:20:26Speaker 03

  So we like calmed down a bit, I don't know how to describe it, but it was so nice, like it's just so nice to, you know, if I cried, he'd hug me now. If I, you know, if I said something, he'd go, oh, big, don't worry about that. He'd be in touch with my emotion instead of rejecting it.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's beautiful.

• 1:20:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's so nice to have, I love that about him. Um, very good father, very, um, very good at working, very humble man, lovely. Ruby would sell anything for some magic beans, she ain't got a clue what that is. Uh, lover, she's done what that is. Um, no, but she's a very good sister, she's very like a second mum, but who's lost with magic beans.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  That's her. Polly is like the stuck up funny mum, oh yes, bitch.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  Sounds how you really feel.

• 1:21:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no, and then Honey is, Honey's like funny in a dry way. Like they're very, do you know what, it's really hard just to give them all sentences because they're, we're all very similar, but we're all so different. They're so funny, they're so dry, they're, we've all got different paths. Two of my, two of my sisters, like on the cast, yeah, not the other ones that aren't, two of the sisters on the, on the show are married with children and me and my sister Ruby, I ain't. And she's the oldest one, I'm the youngest, so that's really like.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  Um, but Ruby was also too much early.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  Which is so weird.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that we, we, we're both prim, I think the same.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  That is interesting.

• 1:21:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  All right, so now you live in a, is it a pink chalet?

• 1:21:56Speaker 03

  Oh, I've got a chalet, yeah.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Chalet.

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  But it's a bit different, my chalet, I will say that, because my chalet, normal chalets, just like, you know, Paul, are like little houses, right? And inside them, you have a bedroom, a little kitchen and a little living room, like all in one. But my dad was so strict that when he got this built, and now looking back, I'm not stupid, it was obviously because he knew he was gonna die and my mum would be on her own in the house, yeah? He said, I don't want yous having a living room or toilets or kitchen because it means you won't come into the house.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  So you will, you'll have a shape of one, you'll have your bedroom in there, but you will be using this house, this is your home. So even that was a controlled environment.

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  That is interesting.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  That is interesting. So it forces you to have to go into the house.

• 1:22:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  To interact.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  Yes, but I, but we do that anyway, like it was very, it was a bit thingy, but now I look back, it was obviously because he weren't gonna be there. But that's all I think anyway.

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:22:46Speaker 03

  Like I think, oh, maybe he thought, no, you will be in this house, you won't go, you can, I can give you a little bit of freedom, but not as much as you want, you ain't moving out.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  You're in your garden, you ain't going nowhere.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  But it also could be that he wanted to see you.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  But he saw us, I lived there.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  You know, but he wanted to make sure that you.

• 1:23:04Speaker 03

  Oh, you mean when he passed?

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  Came, yeah, yeah, came, yeah, came back. You have talked about building an empire.

• 1:23:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Right? You have this show that is incredibly successful.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  That I'm sure is going to create more shows and more projects.

• 1:23:20Speaker 03

  Put it to the universe, Paul, like that.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Oh no, it, it will, it will. I, I think there, I, I will say this is, and I'm not saying this to gas you up, but I'm going to tell you.

• 1:23:29Speaker 03

  Go and gas me, don't be shy.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  And let me gas you up, is that uh, you are exceptional talent.

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  Thank you so much, that means a lot.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  You're, you're, you're the type of person that just comes around once every few years, you know what I mean?

• 1:23:44Speaker 03

  Wow, that means so much.

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  In the, in the industry.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  And so there's no doubt what the future holds for you, right?

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  But here's a question that I have, and I was thinking about this coming in. I was like, wow, she still lives in the estate? Still lives in the chalet?

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  Still? How does your identity change once you move away?

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  Well, I feel like if you move away, it's very easy to forget where you come from. And I don't wanna, because even though I come from, you know, hardness and survival and struggle, that's who I am. That is what I am. I ain't no like posh girl that's had it really good. So I'm not gonna pretend I have been. Like, you moving from the projects, even though that must have been amazing for you in your career, I completely understand it on a survival level. You probably love the projects, though.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, yes and no.

• 1:24:42Speaker 03

  No, you probably brought your kids there.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:24:45Speaker 03

  And I get that. But you, for you, you love it, because it made half of you. It made part of you, yeah, all right, you might have been beat up, you might have won some fights, you might have been robbed, you might have been... How many lessons you learned that you didn't learn in school?

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Yes, true, facts, yes.

• 1:25:00Speaker 03

  And that's why I'm grateful for that. All right, I might not be so academically clever, which I wish I was. I'm very street smart. I can definitely read a room. I can definitely read the tone when someone's voice changing. I can read the tone of the footsteps going up the stairs. So, all right, I can't, I can't read that way. I can read other things that you couldn't. Which is another skill.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So now, will you, I mean, will you move, or will you not move?

• 1:25:26Speaker 03

  I don't have that thing of moving, like...

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  You don't, so really, you don't see that, leaving?

• 1:25:31Speaker 03

  I mean, I, to be honest, I feel like I'd travel and I'd explore. I feel like I'd always come back to my safety net. Even if I went travelling for like three weeks, Thailand or here, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to get home. That is my, that chalet now, as an adult, is my safe spot. If I wanna cry in there, I can. I've got no adult telling me not to be a pansy. I've got no one telling me to get over it. If I wanna go in there and sing, I'll go in there and sing. If I wanna go in, whatever, it's just my room. It's my room, my space, nothing else. I'm safe here.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  Wow, okay, okay. So then, when you think about empire and building an empire, because I've heard you mention this a few times.

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  What, what is an empire to you?

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  Building on the foundations I already have.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  So adding to what I have. I feel like some people neglect what they've got and then try and chase a different thing over here. Where I want that with me and that. I don't wanna, like, if it was my way, I'd buy the whole estate. If I had all the money, I'd buy all the estate. I'd do cheap rent for everyone, for all the mothers that are on benefits and struggling. Like, it is to benefit people. It wouldn't be to be like, ha, I'm in power, I'm in, no, no, no. It's more of like, I'm here to help you, and I can. Instead of a power trip thing. I don't have that weird power thing.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:49Speaker 03

  It's more of like, how can I guide you? How can I, what can I give you to make you feel better? That's just how I, that's, that's what I've been programmed.

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, all right. I'm with you on this.

• 1:26:59Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  What about you and dating?

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  What about it?

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  I know, this is, this is, it's interesting. For some people, everyone loves when I talk about dating. But to certain guests, but, but you could be maybe the only guest that's like, I don't wanna talk about this.

• 1:27:16Speaker 03

  I'm scared, Paul.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  But, I mean, but you, you did date on your show. I mean, it was some, some speed dating.

• 1:27:21Speaker 03

  I might need lip gloss for this, Paul, you know? You ain't getting me like that, no, nah. We're supposed to be friends here, Paul.

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  I, I see every time it's a tough topic, you go to your lip gloss.

• 1:27:29Speaker 03

  I need time, Paul. I need time.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Some people, they go to their vape. You go to your lip gloss.

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm like, hold on.

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you have no more lip gloss in there.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, there's a little bit.

• 1:27:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm getting out.

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  There's a little bit.

• 1:27:40Speaker 03

  Look at you, trying to promo my lip gloss. I see you, Paul. I'm sending something to you after you, Paul, come on.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  Send, send some, send some. But, but so...

• 1:27:48Speaker 03

  Sorry, I'm here.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  And as, as detailed or, or as loose as you want, but I'm just curious about you and if you see any importance of having a partner. Because many people today say, you know what, this is no longer important to me. But I see that it is a part of that blueprint that you talk about, that you grew up under, is having a partner. So how will you, or how do you view partnership now?

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  It's really hard for me to answer, because I feel like my, unfortunately, my concept of love for my first relationship is fucked. I don't feel like, love to me isn't safe, unfortunately. Which is weird, because I've got so much love to give, and I love loving people. But to actually, like, the idea of bleeding in front of a shark again, just doesn't appeal to me. But I do understand the strength of having a man around. I think a man should be around. I think a lot of people glorify of being like a single mom and this and that, when it's actually really hard. Like, I'm not a single mom, but I've married single moms. I've been an auntie that's had to pick slack up. Like, do you know what I mean? I, I, I've had, I've had to be an auntie to friends' babies when they're...

• 1:29:06Speaker 03

  It's very important, the presence of a man, the leadership, the control, the empathy of a man, and I am aware of that. But I also feel like you need to have control of you first, before you allow a man to do that. Like, I couldn't allow a man in, like I said, and bleed in front of him when I'm trying to heal myself. I couldn't expect him to heal me, when I've got so many wounds I haven't addressed yet.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  That's fair. All right, I hear you. I hear you. I will say that just keep in mind, not all of us are sharks.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  Some of us are goldfish.

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, well...

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  You know what?

• 1:29:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Some, some, some of us are whales, right? So, eh, there, there's a whole variety. But I respect

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  what you've had to deal with, what you've had to survive, and I understand your positioning.

• 1:29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's also like, when you've only swam with sharks, why would I wanna swim with a goldfish? I don't know how to.

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  Great point.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  But...

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Great point.

• 1:30:05Speaker 03

  That is something I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to unprogram my programming. It's, it's hard, especially when you're young, like, like you said, I feel like people only do that really in their thirties and forties.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:15Speaker 03

  I had to really snap like twenty-two. I had to be like, what is my, what is going on, like?

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Now...

• 1:30:20Speaker 03

  But thank you for giving me the option to, if I want to explore that, I can. Thank you.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I, I feel as if you have a more clear, or perhaps more than at any point in, in your life, you have a crystal clear view of who you are.

• 1:30:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  What you stand for, what your boundaries are.

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  What your identity is. You know, I, I have a lot of conversations around identity here, which I didn't think I would, but I do.

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  I like that, though.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  And I always say that identity is the story that we tell about ourselves that we believe.

• 1:30:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Speaker 02

  So what do you believe your identity is today?

• 1:30:58Speaker 03

  I think I am a lovely woman who is from a gypsy background, also a gorgeous background, into that household. And I live poorly on, on an estate. I'm a kind woman, I've got a good heart, and my morals are impeccable. People might, you know, people could say what they want. You'd never hear me not saying please and thank you. You'd never not hear me offering you what I've got. I would never be online slagging a girl down, bullying them. I wouldn't do that. And, you know, so there's a lot of things that I think people would say I'm not, but there's a lot of things I definitely am.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  All right, all right, I'm with it. Uh, I have only two more things, however.

• 1:31:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  Is there anything we have not yet talked about that you want to make sure that we have a part of this conversation?

• 1:31:47Speaker 03

  I just wanna make it clear of what the intention of the show is.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 1:31:52Speaker 03

  Do you, oh, do you want me to say, or you lead it off?

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Oh, no, you lead it off.

• 1:31:55Speaker 03

  Thank you, Paul.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  You lead it off.

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  And I just want everyone to know that this show isn't about all gypsies. I don't know why people are so confused by that. It's about my life, my upbringing. The thing is about the show, when I was making it, I specifically said I didn't want certain stereotypes. Like, I feel like if you look at Big Fat Gypsy Weddings, yes, all right, you know, I feel like that did cause a little bit of harm to our community. So I didn't want it stereotyped. I didn't wanna show them my sister cleaning the trailer. My sisters have trailers. My sister Ruby and Pearl lived in a trailer for ten years, yeah? So there's, there's loads of things I could have showed you. I didn't want it stereotyped. Like, I didn't want it where we're sitting there making a bacon pudding, we're making a stew, like...

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:32:33Speaker 03

  I, I feel like you saw that. I didn't wanna stereotype it from Big Fat Gypsy Weddings. I wanted to like flip it and be like, listen, I come from more ways of life than that. And because I haven't done that, I feel like I'm getting a lot of heat for not stereotyping it. Like, for not showing us all cleaning, for us not getting a trailer, for, like, you know what I mean? I, I feel like I've been punished for trying to break us out of a stereotype.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Yes, and with Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, what I remember about that was it won a BAFTA, or nominated for a BAFTA, I think.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Um, eight million people watched it, right? So it was one of those where it created a lot of noise, or I shouldn't say noise. It created a lot of attention around the gypsy community.

• 1:33:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  And people argued for and against the attention that it got. So your thought going into your show, and this was your show, this was your idea, was that you distinctly did not want to showcase any stereotypes.

• 1:33:30Speaker 03

  No, I thought it would benefit us.

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  I, I, I, all right, I'm gonna plead ignorance on this.

• 1:33:36Speaker 03

  Go on, yeah, do your thing.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  Is, do you know it was not until I came to the UK, now about eight years ago, that I fully began to understand the level of prejudice, or, or, or should I say, actually, discrimination?

• 1:33:53Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  So it wasn't until I got here, eight years ago, that I saw the extreme discrimination towards the gypsy community.

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  I, I didn't get it until I came here. And what I have seen, what, what I, what I find fascinating is how that level of discrimination appears to...

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  Sustain itself, like it's still hot.

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  It's stuck, yeah, it's stuck.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  It's stuck, like it's not, it doesn't feel like it's going anywhere.

• 1:34:26Speaker 03

  That is what's so sad, because I feel like in the show I explained that, like my whole life of being that culture clash. And that I wanna be that safe space, and I feel like I've made it rough. And it's coming from my own community, which is so sad. Like, it's so sad. And then when you react, like when I've reacted out of anger, they'll play victim and then I'm wrong again. And it's like, oh, and that's my old blueprint, arguing, why am I arguing? What am I doing? Truly, you are a businesswoman, calm down. Not, the whole world, like you said, you went, not all of us are sharks. I've, all I've been around is sharks. It's hard to take things when I feel like I'm getting bit from everywhere. Like, it's hard for me just to hold it and go, oh, go on, you bite my arm off, you want, oh, go on, you bite this off, without me saying something. And then I react and I look bad.

• 1:35:09Speaker 03

  And that's what's hard, because I have to channel, I have to regulate. And that's what's hard, because all I wanna do is defend, which I've always had to do.

• 1:35:17Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, I can see it, I can see it. I have so enjoyed talking to you.

• 1:35:22Speaker 03

  Same.

• 1:35:23Speaker 02

  I, there, there's one final image that I wanna show you.

• 1:35:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  But what I want you to do is I want you to look at this from truly precious temple. A million followers, like, like, you know, top television show, like, I want you to look at it from.

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  An outsider's view.

• 1:35:44Speaker 02

  From, from, from, no, from your.

• 1:35:46Speaker 03

  Oh, like, okay.

• 1:35:47Speaker 02

  This is your view.

• 1:35:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  And, and I want you to give advice to the person in this image.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  Okay?

• 1:35:56Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  You ready?

• 1:35:57Speaker 03

  No, but go.

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  I know, you, you're not ready, but I think this is important.

• 1:36:01Speaker 03

  Shall I close my eyes?

• 1:36:02Speaker 02

  Absolutely, you can.

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:36:13Speaker 03

  Sorry, is every time I see my dad?

• 1:36:28Speaker 03

  Just saying.

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  Who, who's, who's in that photo?

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  It's me, my daddy, and my sisters, Honey, Ruby, and Polly, the girls on the show.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  And I think we're somewhere from, it looks like, I think we're in Australia, I think we're traveling here.

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:36:45Speaker 03

  Um, I remember some of this, I remember being on his shoulder at one point, and he told me to get off because I was too heavy. Um, I'll just tell her, this is your unit. This is your team. Right now, this is your team. You might feel like, because you're young, and they're coming for you, because you're the baby. That they might be attacking you as well, but they are your safe space. They mean well. And it will be you first, you and them versus the world always. That's what I'd say to them. Oh, you're a head, you know what you're doing. Don't worry about everyone else's, don't worry about everyone else's visions, don't be trying to get business advice of people that ain't got businesses. Like, we're trying to get, um, you know, life advice of people that have had the same life for years.

• 1:37:29Speaker 03

  Know you, you know what you want, go and get it and bring them to the top. That's what I'd say. And hit a million, what? That's what I'd say.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  I, uh, there's always something from a guest that I will always take with me. I'm gonna, I love that. This is your team. I'm gonna tell that to my boys.

• 1:37:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:49Speaker 02

  I think that is so profound and succinct, it's like, you see, everyone, this is your team.

• 1:37:56Speaker 03

  And your boys, you've got two boys?

• 1:37:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:58Speaker 03

  You make sure they know, because you're the man of the family, yeah? You're the head. God forbid anything happens, they will have to look after their mom and each other, of what they've got. So, yeah, it will be, and I'm not talking on that existing, I take that from the universe, I don't wish anything like that on your family, ever. I'm just saying, things in life happen, whether it's later in life, or quicker in life, whatever. And you still, you can never be prepared. My dad was dying for two years, and I was never prepared for it, even watching him die. But what I was prepared is that we were drowning, but together.

• 1:38:33Speaker 03

  And that's what matters.

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  I'm definitely going to tell them.

• 1:38:36Speaker 03

  Good.

• 1:38:36Speaker 02

  That's my promise to you.

• 1:38:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love that.

• 1:38:38Speaker 02

  I'm definitely gonna, matter of fact, you know what I'm gonna do, is I'm just gonna clip this and show it to them.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  Yes, good, good.

• 1:38:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:43Speaker 03

  And I love, I love, do you know what I love about you, speaking to you? I love how, and when I say feminine, I don't mean like you're a feminine man, you're so in touch with yourself and emotions. And that must be so lovely to have, especially you having two sons. Like, I can only imagine their future wives being like, oh, what men, what men they are. Like, your wife must love, like, if she's running now crying, you could speak to her. You could calm her, you could be her peace, not her chaos, not her, ah, what's she doing? And that's so lovely to see and have in a man, so you should be really proud, that's such a lovely thing to have.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I appreciate that, you know, I really do. I, I, I think I have, um, I've learned, and I think a lot of, or not a lot. Some men have a hard time understanding that you can have, that, and you do have parts of you that are masculine, you have masculinity.

• 1:39:38Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:39:39Speaker 02

  Show up in parts of you, and then there's feminine, there's femininity in parts of you.

• 1:39:45Speaker 03

  Which is beautiful, a beautiful thing.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  Which is what makes us human. And what was hard for me over my life is to understand that and then embrace it.

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Of course, of course.

• 1:39:58Speaker 02

  You know, but, but, but I've reached a point.

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  Balance the two so hard.

• 1:40:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:40:02Speaker 03

  That's what I said about my brother, I felt like he was so heightened here, that person could be even, like, on a level.

• 1:40:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  Like, my brother needs to go mad and be masculine, all right, cool. I think any man can really do that, that's part of their programming.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  But for you to challenge a part of you that isn't your programming, is to be, to understand what someone's saying, even if you don't. Or to listen without judgment, or it's such a good trait to have, you will have very strong, loving boys. I'm so gassed for you, even as my friend, I'm like, I'm so happy.

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you, I really appreciate that.

• 1:40:35Speaker 03

  And thank you so much for having me, I had a good time, sorry for the trauma dump, Paul.

• 1:40:38Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no, can I have that photo? I'm gonna give you all these photos, but I have to give you the last question.

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:43Speaker 02

  Because everyone gets this question, and this, this is my favorite. So, truly, you've had some incredible conversations throughout your life. Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? Who was it with, and what did you learn?

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  I don't know, I keep saying I don't know how to answer it, how can I say a different sentence? Sorry, what's the better sentence?

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  Uh, that's, that one works for me.

• 1:41:12Speaker 03

  All right, all right, be dramatic, sorry, just be dry in there. Yeah, do you know what, it's hard, because I feel like, um, I've had so many good conversations from so many different people that have taught me in different ways. Like, I've got people in the estate that have taught me something when I was younger, streetwise. I got something here from you, even talking to you, so nice to speak to you. Even just how you'd, like, you asked me a question earlier, I can't remember what it was, but I've never been asked that. And then I thought, oh, I've never asked that to myself. So, I think every day speaking to people, I've, I've been very moddy coddled. So, every day, me speaking to people was a new element of me that I'm unraveling. And I like that, it's scary, but I do like that, I do like learning, and I do like being open to what I can change or what I can do.

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  So, everything to me is a bonus when it comes to speaking to people, to be honest.

• 1:41:58Speaker 02

  See, I've asked that to, we've had, what, a hundred guests? No one has ever given that answer.

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I'm the favorite one. Did you report say that? Me too.

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, you're gonna give me the trouble. You are definitely going to stand as one of my most memorable guests.

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  Thank you so much, thank you so much.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  And I'll tell you the characteristic that I most adore about you, that I didn't realize was truly you. And that is your transparency.

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  I love that you are open about your challenges. You're open about your grief, but you're also open about your passion. You're also open about, you know, you loving on you.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:42:49Speaker 02

  You know, and what I find to be so hard with television talent and talent today is the performance.

• 1:43:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:02Speaker 02

  Now, to a certain degree, do we all have to perform? Yes.

• 1:43:07Speaker 03

  Well, like, if you're having a bad day, you can't show that or something, yeah, cool.

• 1:43:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  But you don't pretend who you are.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  No, it's like, this is who I am, and it's so interesting to me that we are having this conversation, because I had a conversation recently in this room, but it was off camera.

• 1:43:23Speaker 03

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  And it was about how it's interesting to me about how certain guests will sit down. And I feel as if there's a turn on for the camera.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  Whereas others will come in the door a certain way, but then sit down, be that same way, and leave that same way. And in my mind, I say, that consistency, to me, is what success is.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  That's successful, being able to show up as you, fully you.

• 1:44:01Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  And what I love about you so much is that you have had this tussle with who you are throughout your life. But you reached a point where you showed the world who you are, and the world embraced you. And so my ask for you going forward is, is continue to do that. No matter how much adversity, no matter how much criticism, is always show up fully as you, because that is success.

• 1:44:31Speaker 03

  Amen, amen, I agree, and I can't, and I, I love that, even you saying that, even you being like, show up as you. Because it just resonates, that's all I've ever had to do, show up and show up and show up, and now it's at a point where I've got higher, successful people being like, oh, you showed up, well done, I'm like, thank you, Paul. Yes, I did, I've been showing up for years, thank you, Paul. Jesus, take your time getting me on here, it's all right, we're all friends.

• 1:44:56Speaker 02

  I'm sorry that we didn't get you on early, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  I forgive you, Paul.

• 1:45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  I know you're from the projects, I forgive you.

• 1:45:02Speaker 02

  There you go, there you go, there you go, thank you.

• 1:45:05Speaker 03

  Thank you so much, God bless.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  Truly precious temple. What I felt in this conversation, more than any, is how heavily discriminated the gypsy community is to this day. It's one thing to read statistics, but it's another to talk to someone who's actively living through the discrimination. And that's the top item that I walk away with. I mean, how many of us don't have a complicated relationship with our dads? You know, the more and more that I sit across from phenomenal people, the more and more you see

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  how complicated our lives actually are and how you can have multiple emotions occupy a single space. You can be upset with someone and have joy at the same time, love them at the same time. And so truly, in her transparency, outlined, I think, just how human she is by talking about the complications with her father. You know, there's this show, The X Factor, and it does stem from the theory of there is an X factor, something that you just can't compute about someone that makes them exceptional.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  Truly has the X factor.

• 1:46:40Speaker 06

  I was like, you know what? I need to one-up these gays. I'm just gonna sprinkle a little bit of like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? But I did not think that this was going to officially be my coming out video. I had internalized homophobia, but I wanted to be seen. And that's when I started my YouTube journey. I just remember taking am I gay quizzes.

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:47:01Speaker 06

  Well, first of all, if you're taking that quiz, you're gay. I started to realize that things with my mom were changing. So there was the strong, independent woman who was so caring and nurturing. And then there was this very depressed and emotionally abusive version. Darkness definitely took over at 19 when I got the opportunity to move to LA. There was like no hesitation. My mom was out visiting me. She was basically saying her goodbyes to me. She said, I just took a bunch of pills and alcohol, and she was overdosing. I remember just looking at her, taken out on a stretcher, and I said, wow. My boyfriend at the time, Daniel, was traveling,

• 1:47:46Speaker 06

  and I was by myself again. I didn't know what to do.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Do you believe that you will find love again?

• 1:47:54Speaker 06

  Neither of us have been in a relationship since. That could potentially change everything.

• 1:48:00Speaker 00

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