Big Brother’s Chantelle Houghton Finally Speaks Out "I Don't Want To Hide Anymore"

Celebrity Big Brother winner Chantelle Houghton opens up about overnight fame, her relationship with Preston, the loneliness behind the headlines, and the years she spent staying silent about what she was going through. 20 years after entering the Big Brother house as the only non-celebrity, Chantelle reflects on going from 80p in her bank account to earning £1 million in six months. She revisits the pressure of becoming one of the most recognisable women in Britain, losing friends, struggling with her identity, and realising that having everything did not stop her from feeling completely alone. Chantelle also speaks candidly about falling for Preston, why they should never have married, and how their relationship changed once the cameras disappeared. She opens up about Page 3, the darker side of the entertainment industry, living in fear, and the moment she decided she no longer wanted to hide. Raw, revealing and deeply personal, this is Chantelle Houghton ready to reclaim her story and live life on her own terms. Chantelle Houghton, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussion of mental health. If you’re struggling, remember you’re not alone. You can find help and resources at the links below: MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Chantelle here: https://www.instagram.com/chantelle_houghton/ https://www.tiktok.com/@chantelle_houghton (00:00) Intro (02:10) Why Chantelle Is Speaking Out Now (05:44) Childhood in Essex (08:39) Life Before Celebrity Big Brother (16:08) Being Cast on Celebrity Big Brother (21:03) How Chantelle Dealt with Fame Overnight (31:04) Davina McCall Surprises Chantelle (34:39) Life After Celebrity Big Brother (38:43) Huel Ad (39:48) Relationship with Preston (42:15) Marriage to Preston (46:42) Why Chantelle and Preston Divorced (48:24) The Return to Big Brother (50:17) Never Mind the Buzzcocks (52:25) Class in Britain (58:00) Preston Surprises Chantelle (01:01:25) Chantelle’s Agent After Big Brother (01:06:14) Motherhood and Raising Her Daughter (01:07:55) Chantelle Reflects on Toxic Relationship (01:16:24) Chantelle's Relationship Today (01:20:53) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Huel - https://uk.huel.com/WNTT Try Huel Black Edition ramen, use code WNTT for £10 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  You became incredibly famous for pretending to be famous on Big Brother. But today, you are under threat.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Yes, this has been a big deal for me to come here today.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Can you take us to that storm?

• 0:42Speaker 02

  It was Celebrity Big Brother, but I was the only non-celebrity and had to pretend to be a celebrity as well.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  Big Brother has called Chantelle to the dining room.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  So now you meet someone named Preston.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Did you truly fall in love in the Big Brother house?

• 0:58Speaker 02

  We should never have got married.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  There was a moment where he walks out. Can you take me back to this moment?

• 1:04Speaker 02

  So we're on this crazy ride. I walked into Big Brother with 80 pence in my bank account. And then next thing, I have 1 million pounds and shaking Prince Charles' hand.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:14Speaker 02

  But I was just so lonely. I don't know, I'm getting upset. God, I hate admitting this because not a lot of people know this, but...

• 1:20Speaker 01

  How's that make you feel?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  I'm not the girl that was in Big Brother. That version of me is gone, you know? For me, it was the lies and the manipulation. It destroyed me in every single way possible.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  So why is it that you wanted to talk today and why now?

• 1:39Speaker 02

  For many years, I stayed silent about what I was going through, and I don't want to hide anymore.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Look, pause with me for just a second. Today marks 100 episodes of We Need to Talk. And honestly, I just want to say thank you. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one, or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please, take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Why is it that you wanted to come today and why now?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  For many years, I stayed silent about what I was going through. And I thought that was my power by staying silent. But actually, by staying silent, I was actually handing over the power to the other person because I was ultimately protecting them. And I just want to live again, you know? And doing stuff like this is something I really enjoy. And, you know, I had a great career. And I know some people might say, oh, you know, it wasn't a career, you know? You're just a zedless celebrity. But it was my career, you know? And yeah, it was unusual and unique. And, you know, what is, what was, or what is my job title? Like, what do you put on a passport?

• 3:32Speaker 02

  You know, it's just bizarre. But it was mine, you know? And I missed, I missed living life on my terms, and I don't want to hide anymore.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, I love it. And also too is, I don't think that you should diminish your positioning in the world. You're iconic.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  No, truly. Because what you did is something that I believe can never happen again. Like how you came to the forefront of millions of homes all throughout the UK, that will never happen again. And maybe we can even go there as well. You became incredibly famous 20 years ago for pretending to be famous.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Funkers, isn't it?

• 4:29Speaker 01

  And when you reflect back on that, do you think that was the beginning of the most unique twist in reality TV history? Or was it a pathway that led to harm?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  It was a really unique thing that happened to me. And there was nobody ever to sort of, you know, you know, you've got work colleagues and you're all doing the same job and you sort of rely on each other for support, you know? Because they're going through the same thing at, you know, their job, they're, you know, you're trying to hit targets and stuff. But I never, I was on my own. I didn't know, like, it was just me navigating it. And I did find that hard. I really did find it hard. And actually, people probably looked at me and thought I was living this wonderful life, you know? I'd earn all these, you know, hundreds and thousands of pounds, like overnight. I had a lovely home. I had a lovely car.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I could go off to Spain, wherever I wanted in the world, and come back whenever I wanted. But actually, I was so lonely. I was so, oh my God, don't, I feel like I'm going to get upset. It just led me to a really lonely life. On the outside, people looking in, they probably thought I had it all. And materialistically, I did. I had everything that I wanted, but I was just so lonely. I was on my own. I was all alone.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Okay. We're going to unpack your entire story. And I know that some of it will be painful, right? But some of it will be joyous.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  You know? Can we start in Essex?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Is that painful or joyous?

• 6:22Speaker 02

  That's joyous. That's good. I'm a proud Essex girl.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Can I say, I love Essex.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Oh, do you? I can hear you.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  I'm a big Essex. I always talk about this. We had Chloe Sims.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, I've watched it, yeah.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yes. And she literally, with my first week of being in the UK, she took me to a pie and mash shop.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Oh, lovely.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  In Essex, right? So that's where I started.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  But when you think about growing up, what was being a little girl in Essex like?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  I mean, I had a very normal childhood. You know, it was nothing out of the ordinary. We wasn't rich, we wasn't poor, we were just kind of average. But I just knew, like, inside of me, there was just something that wanted more. I didn't know how I was going to get it because I, you know, I went to school, I didn't get great GCSEs. But I knew I wanted to live a nice life. I wanted to be able to go on holiday and eat nice food and experience life. But I didn't know how I, how I was going to get it.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  And can we even, Chantelle, can we even stay in you as a little girl?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  So just you as a little girl. And actually, can I show you? I have a lot of surprises for you today.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Here's the first one, all right? I want us to focus on...

• 7:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Her. Okay. So hold that for me. Who is that? How old is she?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  I don't know, I'm getting upset.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  I tell you what, it's because this matters to you.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  I'd say I was probably maybe four, five years old.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Do you know why? I know why I'm getting upset is because I didn't have any of the pain then that I do now. And probably seeing that picture makes me wish I could go back to then and do life differently. So yeah, it's painful to see me as an innocent, you know, no trauma, no pain, young girl.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  You know, this happens to many of us when we reflect back because we know the life that this young girl...

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Needs to lead.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And I'll hold on to that and I'll give you any of these photos that you want.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  So you're welcome. So now by the time you were leaving school, what are you thinking career wise? What do you want to do?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  I just wanted to earn money. I was desperate to earn money. So I actually, so I left Scott 15 and I got my first job in London as an office junior.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  As an office junior?

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  What's an office junior?

• 9:27Speaker 02

  Oh, like a clerical, like assistant.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Ah, okay.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Like I was, yeah, it's weird as an office junior. Yeah, I was just, you know, answering the phone, photocopying, buying the coffees, bringing them in, you know, general dog's body, basically.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  I mean, I went from that job, I've had so many jobs, you know, over the years in office, in offices. And nine times out of 10, I would actually get the stack.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Really?

• 9:54Speaker 02

  And every, and I hated all the jobs and every single time I'd cry that I'd got the stack. And I remember my dad one day saying to me, why are you crying? You didn't like it anyway. And I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I didn't like it anyway. But I think it was just the rejection of like, we don't want you here anymore.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. But why were you getting fired so many times?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  I just, I probably wasn't very good at what I was doing. Because I didn't want to be doing it. I, you know, I, I, I wanted something different, something more. So.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Okay. So at a certain point, do you become a, is it a grid?

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  See, it's called a, is it, what's it called? A grid girl?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  A grid girl.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  I have never heard

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Have you not?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Of this term until I was researching for you to come in. So what is a grid girl?

• 10:42Speaker 02

  So basically, I entered this competition and it was with the motorcycle news, a newspaper. And it was a motorbike newspaper. And what they do is they have like a group of girls that they choose and you would hold, when the races were going to start, the motorbikes were there, you would stand there with an umbrella, like on the grid.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  And, you know, shield them from the sun or, you know, and just have pictures taken and just, you know, you'd be wearing all the, the clothes that promoted the newspaper and you'd just

• 11:18Speaker 02

  generally walk around and promote, promote the magazine.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Interesting. So you're, it's a, grid girl is a model in essence, for the magazine?

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Okay. So that, so, so is that something that you aspired to, to be? Did you want to model?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  No?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  No. No, I didn't. I had no desire to do it. I, I fell into it. So I had a boyfriend at 18. He was a lot older than me. He was 25. And that's quite a lot, you know, looking back, that was a big jump.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  And he wasn't very kind to me and I, God, it just seems so pathetic looking back then that you, you listen to somebody else and you, you know, what they say really affects you.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  But he would always make me feel like I wasn't good enough that, you know, he'd look at girls in magazines and be like, oh, she's so this, she's gorgeous, you know, you're nothing like them. And, and it was just that, I kind of just wanted to prove him wrong. And

• 12:25Speaker 02

  I end, oh God, I hate admitting this because not a lot of people know this.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  He'd always go on about page three girls and I, I'd never wanted, do you know what a page three girl is?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  I do know, yes.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Which, which by the way, is so, when I first heard, because everyone talks about page three girls.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Or I shouldn't say everyone, but a lot of our guests. And I could not believe that this was happening. But

• 12:52Speaker 02

  I know.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  But for anyone who doesn't know what a page three girl is, could you explain?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  You're basically topless on page three of the newspaper.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Good answer.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  And I had no desire, no, never ever thought about doing it before, but it got to a stage where I kind of, oh, I needed to prove that I was as good as them. I mean, who was I proving it to really? To me, to him? I don't, I don't know. But I made it my mission that I would get on that page three. And I did.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. Yeah, I got on there once, just once.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Just once. And you did that specifically for your boyfriend?

• 13:36Speaker 02

  To prove to him that I was actually as good as the girls that he was saying were amazing and, you know, I wasn't good enough.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  So it sounds like you believed it.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  That you were not good, as good.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  So therefore you wanted to prove.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  So when you went through that experience, what is, what is that like? Because you didn't want to do it, but to sit there to, to have to take off your top.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  What was that like for you?

• 14:04Speaker 02

  I didn't like doing it. It was horrible.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  But I was just hell bent on, on proving myself. And, you know, like I said, he was a lot older than me and, you know, he cheated on me several times and I was heartbroken. And it was just, it got worse and it got worse, you know. But that was my, like, is it redemption of like, you know, I am good enough?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Your attempt, your attempt at it.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  So then after you were on page three, what was his response?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  So I, I actually left him for the last time before the newspaper actually then came out. So I don't, I don't know because I didn't speak to him ever again. So, yeah, I, I don't know.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. So was it, so was page three that then led to you becoming a grid girl?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Yes. I joined an agency and, you know, they'd send, they'd, they'd book you for different jobs. I then became a Paris Hilton lookalike because people started saying that I had a resemblance to Paris Hilton. So I'd have to turn up at places, you know, and walk around and they'd book Paris Hilton's sister, Nikki, a lookalike as well. So we'd have to walk around these, you know, exhibition shows. Such a weird life. Why are you so busy? I've lived so many lives.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  You have, and you're only like 21 at this point.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  I've lived so, I'm so tired. I'm so tired.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Can I ask, as a Paris Hilton lookalike, do you act like, do you, do you, is, is the idea that you're almost tricking people to believe that you are Paris Hilton?

• 15:55Speaker 02

  I am, I mean, it was just really just for the, you'd like attention of whatever you were promoting at the time. So, you know, everyone knew that I was a Paris Hilton.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  But, but it was fun. It was really good fun. In fact, actually, I got, I got booked for a photographer, really famous photographer, Alison Jackson.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  She photographs a lot of the royal lookalikes and I got booked for that job as Paris Hilton lookalike. It was around the time when Paris Hilton's dog had died. And so there was this whole theme of me with this chihuahua. But it was fun, you know, it was, I've got fond memories of that time. Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  All right, all right. I'm not mad at it. You wanted to make money. You were making money. You were making money. So from this attention, is this how you entered the Big Brother franchise for the first time?

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yes. So I had been on a modeling shoot and I overheard a girl there talking about the Big Brother auditions. And Big Brother hadn't been on my radar. Obviously, I'd heard of it. I hadn't actually watched it. But my mind started ticking and I thought, oh, you know, maybe, maybe I should apply. Maybe if I go on there, you know, I might get better work, more work, you know. And so I thought, yeah, why not? So I found out when the auditions were on. I remember getting on the train. I had no money, so I bunked the train all the way to London.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  I was all done up, had my earrings in, I had a cream fur coat on, my hair was done. And I turned up to the auditions and it was maybe 30 minutes towards the end. So I nearly didn't make it.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  And they sent me home. They sent me home and I thought that was it. So, yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  So what did you do in the audition?

• 17:49Speaker 02

  So you go into like a makeshift diary room and you have to sell yourself. You get maybe 15, 20 seconds. And I basically, when they, when they said go, I said, hi, I'm Chantelle. I'm from Essex. And I said nothing. I didn't know what to say. I literally didn't know. It was the wor- it was the worst audition I've ever done. I did not know what else to say. And so I thought, oh, messed that up, you know. But I went home and I thought that was it.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Okay. And I also find the motivation interesting and very truthful. You wanted to be on Big Brother so that you could then get more modeling work.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  That was the idea.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  So you come from that audition, they send you home, then what happens next?

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Um, so I got a telephone call that night and I thought it was one of my friends winding me up because I'd obviously told people that I'd gone for the audition. And they, um, the person at the end of the telephone said that they wanted me to come back for another audition. So I was like, oh, this is a joke. And they said, no, no, it's, you know, it's real. And so I ended up probably going to around twenty, thirty auditions.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Really?

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Over the next few months. And it was so secretive because they would, they would say to you, go to Tottenham Court Road, go into a ca- a cafe Nero. There'll be a man in there with like a red hat. He'll give you directions to like to go to the next place. It was so secret. It was so secretive. And it was fun as well. Um. So, yeah, I did all the, all these auditions and then what Big Brother do is before the show goes live, like the summer show, not the celebrity version, the normal version, two weeks previous to that, they'll do like a test run. So they'll have housemates go into the test run that didn't make it for the actual show.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Um, they'd pay you, but you'd go in. So obviously that way they can make sure the cameras are working. Um, any of the tasks that they'd planned, they can see if they work. So you're kind of like a guinea pig.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Um, anyway, so they asked me to do that. So I was like, I was excited, but obviously it was kind of, oh, well, I'm not in the real show, but anyway, I did it. So I was meant to be in there for the four, five days, but I went in on the Monday and then I was evicted on the Wednesday. I was gutted. But basically, they, they told me my secret task was to get nominated for eviction. So I, I had to basically make everyone dislike me, um, which was horrible. It was just, yeah, it wasn't nice. But, um, I got evicted on the Wednesday and I thought that was it. So I thought that was all over.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Until the December of the same year, I got a call from the producer saying, um, that, that, that there's a show in January. Um, am I available? Um, would you like to come and meet with us? So I was like, yeah, sure, I'm available.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  Thinking, what is this? You know, what show is it? So I went along and she said that

• 20:58Speaker 02

  they were doing Celebrity Big Brother, but they were thinking of doing a version where there's half celebrities, half non-celebrities. She said, would you be up for it? And I was like, yeah, sure. Of course I will, you know. Yeah, that's fine. Um, she said, okay, look, we're still thinking about it. We'll let you know. Um, a couple of weeks later, she called me and said, right, you're going in on, I think it was the fifth or the sixth of January. Um.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Get yourself ready. So.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  That's, so, so, all right. First is, this is, so this is what year is this?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  This, this is too far, end of two thousand and five.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  This is, okay, end, end of two thousand and five. This is a new concept for Celebrity Big Brother.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Right? Now, Big Brother at this point is, you would say, household name. Everyone knows. It's appointment TV. Everyone's watching.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  It was on Channel Four.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  I think at, at this time. Uh, and Davina McCall was, was hosting it. All right. So, big, big show. So once they tell you that you are going to be in, in just a few weeks, who do you tell and what are you thinking?

• 22:09Speaker 02

  So I only told my mom. That was the only person that I told. Um, and I was so excited. I felt like I'd finally got the break that I'd been trying to get for a long time, you know, walking around London, going to castings and modeling jobs, getting some, getting knocked back on others. So it was like, this is it. Um, you know, I've, I've got my break.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Okay. So at what point do the producers tell you about your secret mission on the show?

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Well, they didn't tell me. I found out when I got called to the diary room live on air and I was the first person in the house and that's how I found out.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  That I was not only just the only non-celebrity, but that I had to pretend to be a celebrity as well. And do you know, the first thing that went through my mind is, oh my God, please don't say they, they want me to pretend that I'm, I'm actually Paris Hilton. So I thought, I've got to do this American accent. Like, that's, that was my first worry that went through my head. Um, but yeah, it wasn't until I'd got out of the car, walked into the house and was in the diary room. That's when I found out.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  And what are you thinking when you find out?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Oh, it was such a, I was terrified, absolutely terrified.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  So what was your, your cover? So you were supposed to act as who?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  So I had to be, I had to say that I was a member of a girl band called Candy Floss with a K. Um, and I had a number one hit in Japan. Um, but they said that I could make up the rest. They, you know, they said that however many girl band members were in the group, I could make, I could make, I could pad out the details myself. And I stupidly remember saying that there was five of us in the band. Then I've got to remember all these other girls' names and, and stuff. But, um, but yeah, it was, I was terrified. I was, you know, I was absolutely terrified, you know.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  I'm just this young girl from this little village in Essex and the next thing, I'm on national telly with all these celebrities around me and it, it, yeah, it was wild.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Were you familiar with any of those celebrities?

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Yes. So I grew up watching Michael Barrymore on Saturday Night TV and he was the first person that walked in. And can you imagine? Like, I, I was just like, and he's, oh, hello, I'm Michael Barrymore. And I'm thinking, I'm, yeah, I know who you are, like. And then he's like, oh, who are you? And I said, oh, I'm Chantel. I'm in a girl band. Oh, it was just so, oh, God. Um, and yeah, I mean, so, yeah, Michael Barrymore, Pete Burns, um, Rula Lentska, George Galloway. It was just, I felt so out of place, really out of my depth. I was so out of my depth being there and I just thought, oh my God.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  And all I wanted to do was go and ring my mom and go, oh my God, can you believe what is going on?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Were, were you scared that your cover was going to be blown?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was terrified because, um, Jodie Marsh was in the house and I used to go out in Brentwood a lot and she lived in Brentwood and she used to go out in Brentwood. And I was worried that she might have recognized me from being in Brentwood and I wasn't this celebrity singer that was in a girl band. But, um, somehow I pulled it off. Although actually, I don't believe I pulled it off because my singing was terrible. What I believe is that when you go on Big Brother, you're so aware of, as a celebrity, say, you're so aware of yourself, you're so nervous yourself, that you're actually not thinking about anyone else or questioning, oh, who are they? I've never seen them before.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  You know, so that's how I think I got away with it because everyone was terrified themselves. Um, yeah, I can't credit my singing.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Can I say though, Chantel, I think that is great life advice, is that so many of us show up to the meeting, to the conference, to the event. And we are so terrified, or we believe that everyone else is going to witness how scared or terrified we are. But in actuality, you're in a group of people who are all terrified themselves.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Nobody cares about you. Do you know what I mean? They just care about yourself. Nobody cares. You're not the main character.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  It's not all about you. Like, it's just, you know, we're all human beings, but I, I, yeah, you're, you're right. Like, you forget that. You think it's, oh my God, what are they going to think of me? When actually they're all thinking, oh my God, what are they going to think of me? So.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. So you said that they didn't find out because of your singing. So clearly your, your singing wasn't that bad then.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Oh, it was terrible.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Oh, it was awful. I just forgot the words. I had them in front of me and I still couldn't sing it properly. But, yeah, I think the looks on their faces as well when I was singing said, spoke a thousand words. Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Really? So, so after you were finished singing, right, they still think that you are the, the singer in this, in this band, right? Or the, the, so did you think that your cover was truly blown or no?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  I thought I'd smashed it. I thought I'd absolutely smashed it. But unbeknown to me, they were having private conversations saying, she like, you know, it doesn't sound right, you know, she forgot her words. And they, some of them were doubting me. But because nobody actually came out and said, we don't think that you're a celebrity. Had they, I would have been evicted because I would have, I would have failed the task. So because they didn't actually outright come, outright say it to me, I, I got away with it.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  So, so at what point do you think, wow, I, I think I might place well here? Like, I may do well in Big Brother?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Um, honestly, it was the night of the final, the night of the final. And when it had just got down to me and Michael Barrymore sitting there and everyone else had been evicted. I remember going to the bathroom and I just looked at myself in the mirror and I thought, oh my God, I could win this. That was the only time when I really believed that it could happen. The reality hit me of, you know, I could actually win.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  And when that reality hits, what are you thinking?

• 28:38Speaker 02

  I think I said, oh my God, about two hundred and fifty times. I think they like, I think they, I think they, um, counted. I was in disbelief. I just, I just, I couldn't believe it. And I still don't believe it now. I, I, it's really weird. So it's, um,

• 28:55Speaker 02

  you know, sometimes you just can't wrap your head around something. Like, I still can't believe that all of that happened.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  I have a friend who, um, who won Celebrity Big Brother in New York. And I remember having a discussion with them about.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  What it means to them, or what it meant to them in the moment. And they were talking about how what they couldn't wrap their mind around was how the public was supporting them. Right? Almost over others. And here you are, the only non-celeb, being supported by the majority of the people voting.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  How does that feel? To know you have this outpouring of love?

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Oh, it was just so nice. Honestly, like everywhere I went after I came out the house, just people were so kind to me. They were just sort of really rooting for me. And it was just like having an extended family everywhere you went. You know, because everyone was just happy for me. But it's really weird looking back because I see it as like my TV life. Because it was just so far detached from reality. The bad stuff, but also the good stuff. It wasn't, it wasn't real. You know, it was real, but it wasn't real. Because it was just this bizarre. It was almost like a parallel universe, you know?

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Well, one is, it was 20 years ago. It was definitely a different time in television. It was at the forefront of many other reality formats. So at that time, we didn't have a lot of reality dating shows, for example. Which, when I look at your popularity on that, on Celebrity Big Brother, part of it, I think, came from perhaps the audience fantasizing the romance between you and Preston. And that was of interest because we didn't have Love Island and Married at First Sight and Slav's Good. We didn't have all those shows then.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, and people love love, don't they? So, yeah, exactly.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  I used to get fan mail like this, mental.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Actual?

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Actual fan mail, that's just crazy, yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Well, on that note, guess what I have?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  I have a fan video for you.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  You ready for this?

• 31:25Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Ready?

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Go on, then.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Now, and even before that, can I say this? Is, and I think this is important, is you received 56% of the public vote. Winning. That's huge that you, that you got that. 56% of the public vote. All right, Chantel, you ready for this?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  I have, I have a video here of someone who I believe is, one, I can't say they are your number one fan, but I believe they're right up there. They could be.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  They could be your number one fan. You ready for this?

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Go on, yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, Chantel, like where do I start? You know, the thing that caught all of our imaginations was that you were an ordinary girl who had, and, and you weren't like a fame-hungry ordinary girl. You were a genuinely just nice, ordinary, beautiful person who had been thrust into a house full of massive celebrities. I mean, Michael Barrow, Dennis Rodman. I mean, how insane is that? Preston.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Huh? Remember that?

• 32:43Speaker 04

  And then you had to pretend you were a pop star and make everyone believe it. And they did. And I was so unbelievably impressed with your bravery, your, your absolute kind of energy and sense of humor and ability to not be crushed by the weight of everybody's personality, that you held your own. And then watching you fall in love was the sweetest thing ever. I don't know, I, I really, we all really loved you. And you did so brilliantly. I mean, God, like you, you're my hero.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  So, like, well done. And I hope you're well. And I hope you have a lovely time with Paul. You're gonna have a great time on there, he's amazing.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  She's so lovely.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  She's the lovely.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  She is such a lovely woman. She's such a good woman.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  That was Davina McCall, right?

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  And also, what I will say is, I, I didn't realize, when I met Davina, I didn't realize how cemented and entrenched she is in British culture.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Right? I was, I was naive to it. And I see how she truly is a national treasure.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  She is, yeah.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  But when I talk to many people, they point back to her on Big Brother. As that really cemented it.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  So, to hear her say this about you.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  How's that make you feel?

• 34:22Speaker 02

  I'm not the girl that was in Big Brother. I never will be. Everything that I've been through, that, that version of me, oh, my God. That version of me is gone, you know? So, obviously, that's beautiful, the words that Davina has just said. And that's amazing, but I find it, it's hard because it's like she's talking about someone else because that person doesn't exist of me anymore. Did you see what I mean?

• 34:50Speaker 01

  I see exactly what you mean.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Like, I'm so grateful, and that was beautiful, everything that Davina said. But I feel like she's talking about someone else.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  I know exactly.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Am I mad?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  No, no, you're not. You're not. This is fame. You know, and, and we can't put it all on, on, on fame. But I think we all have to take a moment and think, this was 20 years ago. This was a different time.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  When you came off of this show, you were one of the most popular people in the UK. One of the most recognizable people in the UK.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  And you can even see how that bared out in the press. You could look at, at the money that was being offered.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  You know, when you came out, for example, your first interview, first interview, how much were you offered for that interview?

• 35:48Speaker 02

  I literally did the first interview the very next day, and they paid me £250,000, which is...

• 35:57Speaker 01

  I mean...

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Just, it goes back to the whole disbelief thing. Because even at the, even on that day, I didn't believe it. Because it was just crazy, it was crazy.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Within the first six months, how, how much did you make?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  I remember I had a diary. And I'd put in what I was, because I was working all the time, like every single day. And I knew that I had to maximize it. I knew that I couldn't turn down work. Because I also knew that this wasn't going to last forever. Like, I never thought, oh, this is it for the rest of my life, you know? So I used to write in my diary, the job that I was doing and how much I was getting for it. And I remember I used to count it and count it. And I was just, couldn't wait until it got to the £1 million. And it was six months, pretty much bang on six months, that I got to £1 million. Yeah. But even, I, I, I was full of disbelief. Like, even now, looking back on that, I still don't believe it.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  You know, it's, it's unbelievable.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  I walked into Big Brother with £80 in my bank account.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was all out. Yeah. So I was like, this needs to work.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Well, it worked.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  It worked, yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Maybe too good.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Right, but, but it worked.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  What was your identity, right? The story you tell about yourself. What was it when you got out of Big Brother? Immediately, right, when you, when you came out?

• 37:33Speaker 02

  I still, back, at the time, I still, in fact, to be honest, it made me not know my identity even more so. Because I didn't know who I was before, and I definitely didn't know who I was then.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  You know? One minute, you know, I'm living in this small village. And then next thing, I'm in the Queen Mother's house, having tea and coffee with, and like shaking Prince Charles' hand.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Prince at the time.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  What about friends and family? Do they treat you any differently?

• 38:03Speaker 02

  My family have stuck by my side throughout the whole thing. But friends, you know, it's so difficult. Because a lot of people say, you know, when somebody becomes fameless, they change. In my experience, the people around me changed. And that was really, really difficult. Because I lost all, one by one, I lost my friends. I had a really good friend. And I was doing a TV show at the time, and she was due to come on there. It was like a reality show. And basically, the night before, her mum called the production company and said, unless my daughter's getting paid the same amount of money as Chantel,

• 38:48Speaker 02

  she's not going to do it. And just, yeah, people changed around me. Like, they couldn't handle it. Because I, I went from having nothing to having everything. And so that led to a lot of loneliness, you know? Because I've had everything on paper, but I'd lost everyone apart from my family.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:14Speaker 01

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• 40:18Speaker 05

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• 40:48Speaker 01

  So now, you meet someone in that house

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  named Preston.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, a question that I have around this is, were you aware that Preston had a girlfriend?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Okay, so you knew?

• 41:09Speaker 02

  I did, yeah.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. So you then strike up, would you say, a friendship?

• 41:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  With him. Did you know who he was before entering the house?

• 41:20Speaker 02

  No, I hadn't heard of him. But it was just like, you know, like two silly little kids. That's how it was, like a giggly friendship. And we were like the kids of the house almost. That was, that was how it was for us in there.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. So you were the, so it was a friendship?

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  That was, that was built up. Did it feel at any point romantic?

• 41:49Speaker 02

  No, it didn't, because I knew he had a girlfriend. I mean, I think people talking about us in there and saying stuff to, you know, Preston, oh, you know, what's your girlfriend gonna think? You know? But he maintained, well, I've actually haven't done anything wrong. It's not, you know, like, we hadn't kissed each other. We hadn't spoke about dating each other. You know, nothing had been said. Yes, looking back, I can understand that his girlfriend might have been really uncomfortable with our friendship in the house. And I'm sad if that caused her any pain. But there genuinely wasn't anything going on with us whilst we were in Big Brother. There really wasn't.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you truly fall in love in the Big Brother house?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  It's so hard for me to distinguish. The only thing that I can describe it as is like a holiday romance. And you know, it's like, a holiday romance is like, you know, you meet somebody, then you then go home and you pine off to them. But we obviously didn't need to do that, because then we got together. But the reality of it was that we weren't right for each other. But at that time, yeah, I'd say, yes, I was, yeah, of course, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have got married if I wasn't, so.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Okay. And that happened so quickly. So how, what, you got married after knowing Preston for how long?

• 43:25Speaker 02

  So I met him in the January and married to him in the August.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Okay. What was it, seven months?

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Okay. That's quick.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  Really quick.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Why do you believe you two got married so quickly?

• 43:44Speaker 02

  I don't know. He asked me and I said yes. And then, next thing, we were getting married within a matter of months. OK Magazine paid us a shed load of money. I didn't get married for the money, don't get me wrong. But yeah, I mean, one minute he was engaged to his ex-girlfriend, because he came out of the house and proposed to her.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, I didn't know that.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then within two weeks, he then proposed to me. Well, I don't know, sorry. Maybe I've got the two weeks wrong. Not long after, he then proposed to me. Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Were you aware that he had proposed to you? You were aware?

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  So why do you think you did it? Why did you say yes?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  I think probably because of, like, the boyfriend, my very first boyfriend. I then had someone who then, like, he wanted me. He wanted to marry me. You know, it was, it's good, it feels good to be wanted, doesn't it? So, yeah, I didn't, I didn't think about it at all. Like, should I do this? It was just a straight yes.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Okay. And then you divorced 10 months?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  So three months, you were married for three months?

• 45:06Speaker 02

  No, so we got married in August 2006 and then we got divorced. I think it was like pretty much, we were together, in total, we were together 18 months.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  So, married in August 2006. I think we were divorced by, by, yeah, August 2007.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Okay, so didn't make it the year?

• 45:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  What, what, what happened?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  We were so different. We was two completely different people. What he loved about me at the beginning was probably everything he despised about after. Like, he's even said in an interview that he, he'd never got the glamorous blonde girlfriend, model girlfriend, because he'd always been like quite geeky at school. And then all of a sudden, he's got her. But then, it's like reality sets in. It's like, actually, I didn't want to marry that person. Do you know what I mean? I just, I just wanted a picture of her on my wall. Do you know what I mean? We lived in Brighton where he came from, so I moved down there. I didn't know anyone down there.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  And I think there was a lot of pressure on him, not from me, but I think he felt a lot of pressure to not like leave me alone, like at home alone. You know, I think he felt pressure to make sure that I was okay, because I knew I didn't know anyone. So I think that was definitely a pressure in our relationship. He's never said that to me, but I can't, I can only imagine. He must have felt that. You know, I was all the way away from home. I didn't know a soul in Brighton. So it's a lot for somebody to carry that burden, you know? But we, like, we were like, we're like chalk and cheese. We're like chalk and cheese. They really are.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  It's just, we should never have got married. We're like, it should have been what it was. But you know what? We were young, we were silly, we were, we were on this crazy ride of Big Brother. We would never have met in real life, in like real life. We would never have met. He wouldn't have fancied me. I wouldn't have fancied him. We just wouldn't.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  We would never have come across each other because we wouldn't have mixed in the same circles. We wouldn't have gone to the same shows. You know, sometimes he'd talk and I wouldn't even understand what he's talking about because of the, like, the words he's talking, do you know?

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh my god, yeah.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  You couldn't even understand him?

• 47:41Speaker 02

  I think his dad was like a professor or something. But we were just so different. But there was no massive falling out. There was no cheating. There was no, there was nothing. It was the most amicable divorce ever. And actually, with the divorce, I had to get lawyers and then he had to get lawyers. And what the lawyers were doing were, my lawyers were calling me up, trying to say, well, you know, you can get this from him. You can have like a take on that finance. And his lawyers were doing the same. They were trying to like pit us off against each other. And we both went to a meeting with both lawyers and said, we just want a divorce. We just don't want to be married anymore. I don't want his stuff.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  He doesn't want my stuff. We just don't want to be married, you know? It was the, it was the most amicable divorce.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  And you hugged on the day?

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Of your divorce?

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. The day that I moved out of the house, we hugged and said goodbye. It wasn't, there was no nastiness, no bitterness, no hate, no nothing. It was a very easy breakup. But it was sad, you know? All breakups are sad, aren't they?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  You know? But yeah.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Sure. Now then, did Preston then go back to his old girlfriend?

• 49:01Speaker 02

  No, he didn't, no.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  He met a girl, an American girl, yeah. He met, he met her quite quickly. She's fine, you know? And there's no timeline of when you can and can't move on.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  True.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. So then...

• 49:18Speaker 02

  He's now engaged again, actually, so yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  He's engaged? Look at that, look at that. You're in a relationship, he's in a relationship.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it all worked out.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  So now, you and Preston then saw each other in Big Brother again?

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  In 2010.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  In 2010. So tell me about that, because from what I understand, you entered Big Brother on a special day for both of the two of you.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it would have been, so six, it would have been our fourth, four-year wedding anniversary on that day, yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  On the day that you both entered the Big Brother home?

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Okay. So this was a special Big Brother that you both did?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like the ultimate Big Brother, where they picked like some winners and some other characters that, who had made like a big presence on their, on their show. So, yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, a question that a lot of people have is, did you and Preston know that the other would be in that Big Brother house?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Thank you for being honest about that.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  He run me off and told me he was going on air. So I was like, but you know, it's honestly so, but so, yes, I did know. And he knew that I was, I knew that he was. And then just as we were literally about to get put into the house, one of the runners accidentally pulled the curtain between us and we both looked at each other. I was like, oh, God. But then we had to pretend that we didn't know because it wasn't fair on the production team. You know, they put a lot of effort in and, you know, it's just a little white light, you know? It was, but yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Also too, I think it shows you how amicable the, the, the split was.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  That he would call you to, to tell you.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Now, there was another moment that I read about with Preston that I thought was very enlightening. There was a moment where he walks out.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Can you take me back to, to this moment? So it was a television show that you both did.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was Nevermind the Buzzcocks.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. And, and, and he really stands up for you. So what happened? If you could paint that picture.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I had written an autobiography and it was published. And me and Preston are very different. Like things that I'd think are really posh and like upmarket, he, he wouldn't. And so the presenter, Preston went on this TV show, Nevermind the Buzzcocks. And I was in the green, I was in the waiting room watching, watching him on air. And the presenter decided to pick up my autobiography and start reading snippets of it out. And yeah, they did sound embarrassing and did, it was cringe worthy. And it was making a fool of me.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  And Preston was obviously just expected to sit there and like, and listen to it. And I was so touched that he got up and walked out because actually he, the presenter was just disrespecting me. Like, I think it, I think he said some, it was an, it was a paragraph about, and it was a paragraph of me saying that I'd done a shoot for the Daily Mail and I felt really posh and upmarket.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  And people have their own opinions on newspapers, don't they, of what is posh and upmarket? And he was just trying to make a fool of me by, by reading them out as the Preston got up and walked out. But he got so much backlash for doing that. He got so much backlash for walking out, but he, he just didn't want to sit there and listen to his wife be disrespected. So I, I, I really appreciated what he did.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Okay. And I recall that a statement that he gave afterwards is he talked about how this was a depiction of classism.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  You know?

• 53:36Speaker 02

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Oh, really? You don't know?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  That's okay. You don't have to know it all, right?

• 53:47Speaker 01

  But, but.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  See, this is why the marriage didn't work.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, you're saying that you don't know what classism is?

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I don't know.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Okay, not to quote classism. Okay, well, I mean, I, I think we should talk about it briefly because, so I was not here in, in the UK during this time. I, I got into the UK in 2018.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  And it was very quickly that I realized how regimented the UK was with regard to class.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  And what I believe Preston was stating in that moment, not only with his walking out, but then later literally quoting was that they were trying to suggest that you were in a lower class.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. Yeah. Which I, I am, I, I was.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Being an American coming in is, we have class as well, right? But what I've noticed in, in, in the United States, for the most part, since some will debate me on this, is that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how educated or you are or where your family is from, or how much land you have, or what your title is.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  It all boils down to how much money you make.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Right? So you could have none of those things that I just mentioned. You have, you make a lot of money, you're an influencer, you make a lot of money. And therefore you're considered to be of higher class.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  However, I've noticed in the UK, that's not the case.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Right? So how does that impact? Or did that then impact your relationship? Knowing that, or believing, because I don't know if I, I'm, I'm signing up to this, but, but believing that you were of a lower class than your partner. So I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who is a producer in the United States.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Um, and has worked on UK and US reality TV shows. And said, Paul, you know what? The, one of the biggest differences between UK and US reality TV shows? And I said, what? Tell me. Is that in the UK, a lot of the casting is of people that are considered to be of a lower class. And once again, I still have, I still feel, I feel, I, I, I feel like I want to throw up when I talk about this. But this is, this is their opinion. Whereas in the US, it's, it's, it's all over the place, doesn't necessarily matter.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  But in the UK, it's predominantly that.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  What, what's your, what's your perception of, of that? Cause that's a very charged accusation, if you will. Because when you read into it, you can see, you can say, oh, wow. So does that mean that people are casted that way? So that people who perceive themselves to be of a higher class can look down?

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  On that group? What's, what's your take on that idea?

• 57:08Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, I don't think I was cast for that, that, that reason that they thought that I was of a lower class. I'd like to believe that they cast me on like my personality. But I do think like the press and the media tried to dumb me down more than I actually am. Um, I'm, I remember George Galloway saying on Big Brother that that girl is not stupid. You know, she's not as stupid as she seems. She's actually as sharp as a tack. And I thought that was a really nice compliment, actually.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Because the media and the press, and I think it was easier to make me seem like this thick blonde bimbo, you know? Um, but I am what I am, like, you know, I've got better.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  And I, you, you know, is, so do you consider yourself intelligent?

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Are you looking at me in disbelief like Chantel, you're not intelligent?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  No, I'm looking at, I'm looking at you saying, I had no idea that you would doubt these things.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, yeah, definitely. Like, I, I've done a lot of work on myself in all different aspects, but I was dumb. I was stupid back then, definitely. Yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Okay. So thi- this gives me more insight as to, especially in your relationship with, with Preston. So I could see that when you say that you were different, you truly felt like the two of you were different.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  But then you split up, you two were friends. So when's the last time you spoke with Preston?

• 59:07Speaker 02

  It was probably a couple of years ago. Um, he just sent me a message on Instagram, like, hey, how are you? Like, he's actually out in LA. Um, he writes like songs, writes music out there now. Yeah, the last time I saw him was Big Brother 2010. And yeah, the last time via DM on Instagram was a couple of years ago.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  Wow, so you haven't talked to him in years?

• 59:30Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  That's, that's incredible.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  That's incredible. Okay, okay. So now can we move on to another surprise?

• 59:39Speaker 02

  Okay, go on then.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  All right, you ready?

• 59:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  All right, so here's what I'm going to do on this one is I have this for you.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Okay, all right.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  All right. I would like for you to open that up.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  And if you can give, if you could give that a read for us.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  I have no idea what this could be. Literally no idea.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Hey, Chantel, I hope this message finds you living the dream. No one else could ever understand the insane, surreal, fun, scary, magical ride we found ourselves fumbling through in the post Big Brother madness. No matter how hard I try to explain it to other people, I can never quite find the words. It may be a trauma bond that we share, but it's powerful. And I'm happy that we always find time to check in on each other all these years later. I was constantly impressed by how effortless Stardom was for you, a natural. Every now and then, more often than I care to admit, I get your candy floss song stuck in my head and allow myself a little nostalgia for those days and our daughter Beetlejuice. Oh, little BT.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  I miss being that young and naive, but it was our youth and naivety that got us through it. I know that the crash course in the media studies that it ended up being has made us both better and happier people in the long run. Lots of love and admiration always. So that's Preston, right?

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  That is a letter from Preston.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  That's lovely. And yeah, that is, it's a lovely letter. I'm a bit annoyed though, because he left Baby Girl. We had two Chihuahuas on there. Poor little Baby Girl. Although to be honest, she wasn't called Baby Girl. I changed her name when we broke up, so.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  I love that you read this letter and you're mad because he forgot the name of one of the Chihuahuas.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  You're like, this guy, that's why I divorced you.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I forgot our other dog's name.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  I'll hold on to that.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  That's a lovely letter and, and do you know what? It's, um, I'm so glad that we, we, we, we're, we're at, you know? Because it could have, the press could have.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Turned us on each other, you know, but that was what and our lawyers. But that was one thing that we were both not willing to compromise on, you know?

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  There was always truth with me and him. There was, there was always truth. Yeah.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could see. I mean, that's the letter from someone who respects you as a friend.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Hey there, I just want to say thank you for choosing. We need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  What was the inflection point for you? So you were happy go lucky on Celebrity Big Brother. You leave, you make a million pounds in the first six months. I would imagine you had some good times.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I spent a lot of money shopping.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  I was gonna say.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  I got bored of shopping at one point. I was like, oh, not again. I hate shopping today. I hate shopping. I'm like, you know, like them men that say, oh, I'm not going shopping with his wife. I am, I'm never going shopping. I can't bear it.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I got bored of shopping. I've never heard that. I'm just bored of shopping too much.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  So things are good, right? But there's some point where things become bad.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Can you take me to, to, to that point?

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  What, what happened?

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  So the marriage and the relationship with Preston didn't work out.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  So I moved back home to like near my hometown, but I was living alone. So I, I joined an agency and this guy was looking after me who worked there. And he, he was married and he,

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  he crossed boundaries that he should never have crossed, he should never have crossed. And I was, I was so vulnerable. I was really vulnerable because of obviously being so new to the industry as well. But also being alone and a kind of always was made to feel that they were like in, like my life was in their hands and they could like, kind of like keep making me or they could break me. And this particular guy, he would like send me messages that were like harassing, like harassing me, like making it clear that he wanted like to have a relationship with me, that he wanted more from it.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  And it was just like, it was dark. It was a really dark time and I wish looking back that it's hard, isn't it? When you're young, you know, me today now, if someone did or said any of those things, I would call them out on it straight away and it wouldn't happen again.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  But then I was so scared of

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  losing like the career that I had and I just felt like a scared young girl, you know? He ended up booking me a P A to go out to Ireland. And I know now that he went out of his way to get this P A to get me out of the country so that we were alone together. And we then, we let, we then left and he got rooms next to each other. And I remember getting in my room as quick as I can. And he tried to come in the room with me, but I shut the door and I went and sat on the bed. And I remember just looking out over Dublin where we were. And there was this knocking on the, on the wall, like it was him.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  And I just remember laying there, looking out all the lights and just tears were just rolling down my eyes, my face. And I just, I was like, what has happened? You know, where, where did this get so bad? You know, he didn't do anything to me. He never touched me. But it was the psychological, you know, and actually other things that I've been through in my life. Psychological, for me, psychological abuse is worse than physical abuse. I'd rather be hurt than have the mental torture because physical, you heal scars, you know? But it's mental torture, you know? You can't get away from your brain, can you?

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  You can't switch it off. So yeah, that was definitely when things started to go bad. Yeah. And I carried on. I stayed at the agency for maybe a few more months and then I, I left in the end.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  One is thank you for sharing that. Also, I think a part that we need to underscore for everyone is where there's a similarity, where, or where I can empathize and sympathize exactly with you is in how some agents make you feel as if you are reliant on them, right? There is, you are either, you are only in this industry because of them.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I needed, I felt, he made me feel like I needed him.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yes. During this, this period, you then enter another relationship

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  and you have a little girl. All right, which is, which you become a mom.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Okay. Was becoming a mother, was that on the cards for you? Did you think that was something that, because, because some people say, you know, I've always aspired to be a mom. Others never thought it was for them.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Where did you stand?

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  I never sort of like grew up, you know, even in my late teens, early twenties, like being desperate to become a mom. But I took for granted that if I wanted to be, I would be one. And so I was actually told by doctors I'd never be able to have children naturally. And it would be very unlikely, even if I had a child through I V F. So when I was told that I wouldn't, when I was told that information, it was, it was devastating because I had, you know, everything financially and materialistically in my life, but I couldn't have that one thing, you know? But becoming a mom, it's like, it is the best job in the world.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  It's sometimes the hardest job in the world, but yeah, it's, it's a wonderful, it's, it's wonderful. Yeah.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  I think when you, when you do a, a deep dive, especially on someone's Instagram, you know, their profile, you could literally look at how we represent ourselves and you can tell, or there's certain moments where you can distinguish that was an inflection point. There was a change. There was a deep epiphany that that person had. They were coming out of a storm or they were entering a storm.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  There's something from your Instagram that I'd love it. You wrote it. I'd love it if you could read it for us.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  That.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Doing a lot of reading today.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, this is school. Did you know you were coming to school?

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  My class is going up.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  She does like, Paul, I'm reading too much. Hey, this is it. All right.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  You're welcome. All right. So if you can give, I, I feel like this is such a profound moment for you.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  When you look in the mirror, what do you see? I see a girl that wasn't ready for what she went through. I see the pain and sadness in her eyes from the horror and abuse she endured. But what I also see is a survivor. I see her strength and her fight and I see the light from her soul that never went out. She is me. My healing journey has been so rewarding. I found out so much about myself and I don't just like me, I love me. I appreciate life so much. The smallest things that I used to take for granted now bring me so much happiness. My self-care routine has been pivotal to recovering from abuse. I am in love with life. Never ever let another human being destroy you.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  No one has power over you. This is your life, so you live it.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I write that.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Why did you write that?

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  Writing that and putting that on Instagram was the moment that I stopped allowing

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  to be dictated how to live my life and to stop protecting somebody, but by protecting them, I was destroying myself.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  I'm, I, you know, when people say, I'm not playing the victim, do you know what? I am a victim. I'm not gonna say I'm not playing the victim because I am a victim. I was a victim for narcissistic abuse for many years, for a very, very long time. And it destroyed me completely in every single way possible.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  If you can, as much as you can give us, is can you take us to, to that storm? What, what, what happened to you?

• 1:11:30Speaker 02

  For me, it was the, the lies and the manipulation. And then it was the, the game playing of

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  when they couldn't get to me anymore, they'd send other people and they call them flying monkeys. I don't know if you've heard of that before.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  My God, I'm teaching you something. Classism.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Teach me, Shanta, teach me.

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  So basically, when a narcissist can't directly access you anymore, they'll get other people to do it. So, you know,

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  it could be a friend, a mutual friend, it could be a family member, it could be, you know, it could be anyone. But it, they have sent the flying monkey.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Do you see what I mean?

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  And so I, you know, all sorts of things used to happen to me. I was driving along the road one day, I noticed there was a police car behind me. I got pulled over and I was told to get out of the car, get in the back of their car, because I was being held on suspicion of drink and drug driving. I don't drink, I don't take drugs, you know, they did the tests, it all came back zero. And then the police officer told me that it was an anonymous tip that they'd been sent in. So, you know, it was all of that and, you know, lies and manipulation, just to keep you in that hold of the, of being fearful, of being worried, of not being, not letting you live, because you can't live when you're so scared.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  You know, I was, I was hypervigilant over everything, you know, I'd, even today, I still look over my shoulder, you know, and I always will. And I wasn't able to speak up about it, because at the point, at that time, I didn't even know what it was. I didn't know that, I didn't know what narcissism was.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  And then when I did it all, everything made sense, it just, it all became clear.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  At what point did you realize you were, you were trapped? You know, because how these relationships, there's many survivors I've, I've, I've talked to. And typically, an abuser begins with, they're very affable, you know, everyone like very charismatic. And then there's a moment where things begin to switch and then you realize that you're actually trapped.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  What, can you describe that moment? And, and, and I say describe it almost in a teaching way, so that people who are in a relationship may be able to recognize if that's happening to them.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  I think if you're starting to like question things, then there's a problem. You know, it's like gaslighting, isn't it? You know, makes you like, think that what you're thinking is not the truth. And so I think if you're at a point where you are questioning your own mind, it's because someone's making you question your own mind, because that's the place that they want you to be in, to make you feel like you're going mad and your reality is warped.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  Over, uh, what period of time was this happening?

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  A long time.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Years?

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  A long time, yeah.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  Okay. So, living through this level of fear, what does that, what does that do to you? I mean, how are you able to show up every day in work and?

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  I didn't, I couldn't, I just took a step back from work completely. I, I was in no mental state to be working, be socializing. I was just surviving, that is, all I did for a very long time was just survive. By reading, by, you know, having therapy, by relying and reaching out for support when I've needed it, I found a way to live my life.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, I see it. So then you are, then maybe it's not under fear, but you feel under threat. I'm not putting words in your mouth, but it sounds like what you're saying is, is you feel under threat, but you're no longer scared

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  of the threat.

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  Give me a best shot.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  I can see it.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  That's where I'm at.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  But what, but what is interesting to me is that you are still under threat.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  You know, and so I now can even more greatly appreciate you even coming here today.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  This has been a big deal for me to come here today, like

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is big.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  I chose to live and that's why I'm here today, because I choose, I choose life.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Your mother and your brother, your stepfather, were they shocked when you told them what was happening?

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  They weren't?

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  So you're saying they had observed this person and they knew?

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  They, they, they, they thought something was going on, had they warned you?

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  My mom did, but did I listen? No.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. We do that though, don't we? You think your mom, oh, your mom, you know, you think you know everything and your mom actually does know best after all, don't, doesn't she?

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Look at that. Look at that. So, so mom did warn you?

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Uh, multiple times?

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Twice.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Twice?

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  Okay. You are in a new relationship?

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Now, okay. So, are you in love?

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. For the first time really in my life, yeah. I love that man with my whole being.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  What, what was it that signaled to you that you could trust him?

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Do you know, from the very first moment, I, I knew, I just knew. I, I've not texted a man, I've not dated a man, I've not had any sexual anything with a man for very many, many, many years before I met my partner.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting, by, by choice?

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  By choice. I was so single because, by choice, but also I hadn't met anyone that I was attracted to, like, you know, so many people I know are unhappy in their relationships and, you know, they hate their husbands and they're like, oh God, he's home. I would rather sit on my sofa alone rather than sit on my sofa with somebody and be lonely.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  That's how I felt about it. So I was just living life. Anyway, so I just popped out, I was with a friend, I popped out, went to get a coffee and, um, as I was coming back, you know, blah, blah, minded my own business. And there was this dog with this man, this, this isn't my boyfriend, this is just some random, not random guy, but this guy with a dog. So I, I love dogs, so I was stroking the dog, having a chat with the guy, blah, blah, and I was crouched down. And all of a sudden, I felt this like presence here, like a person. And I, I looked up and it was my new boyfriend.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  And I looked at him and he looked at me and you know, like a moment, it was just a moment in time. And I just got up and I was like, we smiled and then I just went, I went running back to my friends and I said, I've just met the love of my life, I've just met the love of my life. She's like, oh my goodness, what did you say to him? And I said, nothing, I didn't say anything to him. Anyway, we worked, she worked out like who he was and, um,

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  we exchanged numbers and we went out on a first date a couple of weeks later. And it's just, everything has been so, obviously exciting, but so easy, so comfortable, so reassuring, so like he looks after me, I feel looked after, I know how much, I know he loves me, I know how much he loves me, I feel it. I, I literally feel it. I've never had that before, that feeling of

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  pure love, I've never had it.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  I think it's beautiful that you have it. You know, and you could see that there's probably many moments in your life where you thought you'd never

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  Never.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  have it.

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never, ever, ever thought I would, I really didn't. And then, yeah, it was just, he was there when I was least expecting it. I will be with that man for the rest of my life.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  And if I'm not, it's because he dumped me.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Oh, come on, come on, why would he? Why would he? Why would he? I think your story is a testament to someone who was just trying to figure out where they fit in this world. You know, and I think that is more often the case. Is that we're all trying to, I always joke, I'm trying to figure out who I want to be when I grow up, but it's not necessarily a joke. I'm still trying to figure out exactly where I fit in this world. And I think you've been very honest about that battle and about the challenges

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  that come from not necessarily knowing, but that through the storm and through these traumatic events, you can then heal and in that journey, figure out who you are.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  And what's clear is, is you know exactly who you are today.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  And most importantly, you like the person.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  I do, I like Ray.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So Shanta, thank you so much.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you, Paul.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Really appreciate it.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  Look at that, Chantel. Her story tells us that there's lessons and value that comes from all the partners we have, all the experiences we have, good, bad, and indifferent. And unfortunately, Chantel's had these bad experiences, but she's had good experiences. She's had the indifferent experiences. And her maturity, the reason why I say that she's so mature today is because she's learned from all of them. Chantel was truly one of the first reality TV OGs.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  And you could see how that show changed her life and how she benefited, but then there was also a detriment that came from it. And when I think about what could have helped her through is fully knowing who you are, your identity, having a clear goal as to what you want to get out of the project. And then three is surrounding yourself with a group of good people when you leave that project. All three of those were things that she didn't have.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  And you can see where not having those led to some challenging times for her. Fifteen years after Amy Winehouse, the finger still pointed at you.

• 1:23:31Speaker 06

  I need to take control of my own narrative. I've not necessarily been accurately represented. Drugs made me feel confident.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  I understand as a young boy, there was an incident that happened.

• 1:23:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, I didn't expect you to ask that. I've only just started admitting this to myself.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Take me to that evening when you met Amy.

• 1:23:52Speaker 06

  When she told me that she was a musician, I was like, ugh. But then she said, no, no, like, I'm actually good.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  So "Back to Black" was about you. Were there any lyrics that surprised you?

• 1:24:04Speaker 06

  There's a few perhaps that were a little bit close to the bone.

• 1:24:12Speaker 06

  We most definitely would have died for each other. And it was more too intense, too fast.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  So you feel as if you and Amy became addicts together.

• 1:24:22Speaker 06

  Not in her for a fact we did. I remember her father visited me in jail and he said, really? Yeah. Amy was still performing a few weeks before she passed away. You could see in the stages, she's not doing well. So when they told me, my first thought was, this is my worst nightmare. Our love had nothing to do with addiction, and addiction had nothing to do with our love. Just before I got told that Amy had passed away, the last letter that I received was, wow, look at that.

• 1:24:54Speaker 00

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