Pod Insights We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson Tom Read Wilson Finally Tells His Story: “It Was A Constant Barrage Of Verbal Abuse” About this episode Tom Read Wilson reflects on life after I’m A Celebrity and the private story behind the voice, warmth and eccentricity that made the nation fall in love with him.
He opens up about growing up feeling othered, the secret that once felt like a ticking time bomb, and the anxiety that affected his relationship with food for many years. Tom also reflects on coming out, the sister who became his safe place, and why the jungle helped him lose his ego and feel truly seen.
In a conversation shaped by nearly nine years of friendship, Paul and Tom look back on Celebs Go Dating, the moments that brought them close, and the bond that has quietly become one of the most important relationships in both of their lives.
Funny, tender and unexpected, this is Tom Read Wilson on queerness, friendship, family, self-acceptance and learning to celebrate the parts of yourself the world once made you question.
Tom Read Wilson, We Need To Talk
A heads up this conversation includes discussion of mental health and eating disorders. We’ve included links to support resources below:
CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H
MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b
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(00:00) Intro
(05:55) Tom’s Upbringing
(07:25) Becoming Aware of Prejudice
(08:51) Tom’s Identity in His Teens
(16:18) How Tom Came Out
(18:31) Paul Shows Tom a Photo of Him and His Siblings
(23:46) Tom’s Struggle With Eating
(30:43) Tom’s Career as an Actor
(34:51) Tom Appearance on The Voice
(40:57) Accusations About Tom’s Voice
(45:51) Cast on Celebs Go Dating
(48:41) Which Celebrities Stood Out to Tom on CGD?
(51:08) Paul Shows Tom a Photo of Him and Gemma Collins
(53:21) Paul’s Appreciation For Tom
(55:57) Tom on His Romantic Life
(58:00) Tom Has Made Paul Officially ‘Naughty’
(01:01:11) Why Tom Went on I’m a Celebrity
(01:02:59) What Is the Environment Really Like on I’m a Celebrity?
(01:04:33) What Tom Loved Most About I’m a Celebrity
(01:08:46) Who Did Tom Get on With Most on I’m a Celebrity?
(01:17:06) Tom’s Final Bushtucker Trial
(01:23:18) Surprise Letter From Campmate Ruby Wax
(01:26:20) Tom’s Relationship With Paul’s Family
(01:28:11) Tom’s Talent for Accents
(01:37:26) Paul’s Takeaways
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Transcript 13,928 words · 7 speakers
0:01 Speaker 00 Born in Texas, made in America. That's Valero. Keeping America moving, rain or shine, day or night, 365 days a year. Giving back to our communities and helping businesses thrive. We're proud to fuel the people who keep this country moving. So whether you're exploring new roads or heading down ones you know, we're here, fueling drives coast to coast. Proudly American, proudly getting you where you need to be. Right now, Valero.
0:30 Speaker 01 I fell in love with you then. And I think I did have a crush for a while. But actually, everything shifted for me because I am sort of rubbing along so happily as a single person.
0:41 Speaker 02 Tom, Reed, Wilson.
0:44 Speaker 01 Electrified.
0:45 Speaker 02 The number one question about you was, is he acting? Is he for real?
0:50 Speaker 01 Believe it or not, little Tom was much the same as big Tom. And there was a lot of bullying. But what that makes you do is you think, well, the only way I can survive is to celebrate it.
1:01 Speaker 02 I want to show you a photo.
1:02 Speaker 01 I haven't seen this for a very long time. Goodness knows where you laid your mitts on it.
1:07 Speaker 02 I did not know. There was a challenge with you eating during that time.
1:10 Speaker 01 I was just so tightly wound. I had to sit down to eat and I realized that my body wasn't going to let me do it. But I secretly auditioned for The Voice. And it was a direct consequence of that that Celebs Go Dating came along. And then the jungle.
1:25 Speaker 02 I've noticed it with Celebs Go Dating. We can just empty our souls to each other.
1:30 Speaker 01 Empty ossos.
1:31 Speaker 02 Empty our souls.
1:32 Speaker 01 Empty ossos.
1:35 Speaker 02 It's time for you to leave already. You know, it's, what time is it? But can I talk about my biggest gripe with Celebs Go Dating?
1:41 Speaker 01 I do.
1:41 Speaker 02 My biggest gripe is...
1:43 Speaker 01 Oh my goodness me.
1:48 Speaker 02 Hey there. Before we begin the episode, I just want to say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.
2:14 Speaker 01 You know, when we met and we went out into Brixton together and that first lady buttonholed you in the park and said, "I have to talk to you about your podcast because it's changed my life." And then we left the park and you were buttonholed again by somebody who said, "I can't believe this. You're in my ear here and in my retina there."
2:41 Speaker 02 Yes, yes.
2:42 Speaker 01 And I thought, "Oh, for heaven's sake, this is either side of the park."
2:50 Speaker 01 I think it's a boon.
2:52 Speaker 02 It is. It's surreal.
2:54 Speaker 01 It's surreal?
2:54 Speaker 02 It is surreal, what has happened here. But I've begun to understand why. We have had the most phenomenal guests
3:04 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:05 Speaker 02 on who have not told their story, especially since I'm a celebrity. Have you sat down to do a long-form interview?
3:15 Speaker 01 No, no, no, and I don't really, you know, a disbosoming. I do overuse that word, I have to say, but it's just such a good word.
3:25 Speaker 02 It is, it is, and no one else uses it.
3:27 Speaker 01 No, and you know, people automatically know what it means, that it's sort of getting things off your bosom or your chest. But it's just a delicious word.
3:38 Speaker 02 It is, it is, it is. You know, so on that, though, of not being in a position where you have disbosomed before.
3:50 Speaker 01 I mean this as a compliment, but it sounds smutty when you say it.
3:53 Speaker 02 Really? Wait, you say it?
3:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, when you say it.
3:56 Speaker 02 Disbosomed.
3:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it's something about your basso profundo, darling. It just sort of makes me oscillate a bit.
4:03 Speaker 02 I'll try to refrain.
4:05 Speaker 01 Here we go.
4:06 Speaker 02 From saying, yeah, you started this.
4:07 Speaker 01 I know, I know. And I told you, I made a solemn pledge on the way here. No smut. It was a pure smut embargo.
4:15 Speaker 02 And you, you broke it the moment you walked into the studio.
4:19 Speaker 01 It's blown on a zephyr into the Blue Mountains, never to return.
4:24 Speaker 02 Never.
4:27 Speaker 01 Farewell, smut embargo.
4:28 Speaker 02 There you go, there you go.
4:30 Speaker 01 Somebody on your lovely team just asked, when did we meet? And, and you were saying it's just nudging nine years ago.
4:37 Speaker 02 Yes.
4:38 Speaker 01 And I remember it. It is indelibly seared on my mental retina. Because I remember when you came down those stairs into the bowels of that restaurant.
4:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
4:50 Speaker 01 And we had that first sort of pre-filming supper together to get to know each other a bit. And what I can't forget is you have something that I've always aspired to have, which is a kind of a corkscrew gaze, I call it, when you look beyond my countenance into my very soul. And it is, it's a very disarming thing, but it's also a deeply flattering thing because you instantly feel like you matter beyond all possible measure. You know, it's really, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I've met that can do that.
5:32 Speaker 02 Wow, wow. You know, this is precisely what you do.
5:36 Speaker 01 No, no.
5:36 Speaker 02 No, it is, it is, it is, it is. You know, I think we have to set a few rules here.
5:42 Speaker 01 Yes, okay.
5:43 Speaker 02 Okay.
5:44 Speaker 01 Yes.
5:45 Speaker 02 I think it's important for us to do some rules.
5:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
5:47 Speaker 02 You know, I think the rule, if you agree with this.
5:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
5:51 Speaker 02 I think one rule.
5:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:53 Speaker 02 Is that if you are complimented, Tom Reed Wilson, you must sit with it.
6:02 Speaker 01 All right, but is that two ways?
6:05 Speaker 02 No.
6:08 Speaker 02 Because it's not your podcast. You can't do it.
6:12 Speaker 01 Oh, my goodness me.
6:14 Speaker 02 But you have to sit with it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with it.
6:16 Speaker 01 OK.
6:17 Speaker 02 But you have to allow it to sit and percolate for just a moment.
6:24 Speaker 01 All right, I'll do it.
6:25 Speaker 02 Can we go back?
6:27 Speaker 01 Yes.
6:28 Speaker 02 And look at Little Tom.
6:30 Speaker 01 Little Tom.
6:31 Speaker 02 Little T D.
6:35 Speaker 01 And believe it or not, most extraordinarily, Little Tom was much the same as Big Tom.
6:41 Speaker 02 No way.
6:42 Speaker 01 Which is sort of, I mean, it must have been very precocious. It must have been awful. My parents met in rural Berkshire in a school called Bradfield College.
6:55 Speaker 02 OK.
6:56 Speaker 01 And my mum was a wonderful actor. And then my dad, who was one of the youngest teachers, caught her eye. And they sort of had a passionate love affair, and I was the product.
7:10 Speaker 02 Look at that.
7:11 Speaker 01 I suppose when I was about five, my parents, things were getting a little bit sort of dicey in the marital unit. So they decided to go to the other really big school in the area, which was Pangborn College.
7:28 Speaker 02 OK.
7:28 Speaker 01 Which is a nautical college. Although it wasn't officially a nautical college when I went. Oh, I'm fast forwarding now, but we lived there. And so they thought it was probably logical that I should go there. And I had a slightly dicey relationship with it because, you know, I had to polish cannons every day and march. It's where I became keenly aware of prejudice and the juncture at which I did too.
8:02 Speaker 02 Interesting.
8:03 Speaker 01 And I think this is, the fact that both of us feel that prejudice is anathema to us.
8:13 Speaker 01 I think it arrived at about the same age, because I know that, you know, your young life in Jamaica, Queens, you know, it was sort of, it was vibrant and there was Run DMC and VP Records and all the stuff you've told me about. And then, then you went to South Carver and suddenly you were keenly aware of prejudice. And, and I was about the same age when, when I became very, very aware and my antennae shot out. Because it was very difficult to, in a nautical college, to, to be androgynous and, and as I was, which is as I am.
8:54 Speaker 02 Yes, yes. So, so this was, this must have been early teens?
8:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:00 Speaker 02 Okay.
9:00 Speaker 01 Yes, it was.
9:01 Speaker 02 So, yes, so same period for me.
9:03 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:04 Speaker 02 And early teens were beginning to really think about our identity.
9:10 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:11 Speaker 02 So, early teens.
9:13 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:13 Speaker 02 You were in a nautical college.
9:15 Speaker 01 I was, I was. And, and actually, to answer your question, that identity was very organic, but it was a very curious journey to it. And I suppose it was the intersection and the cocktail of, of influences, which were very curious for a boy of my age.
9:36 Speaker 02 Okay, which were?
9:37 Speaker 01 Which were my dad, who he couldn't, he just, it wasn't in him to talk down to children. You had to sort of try and rise to his heady heights. But what he did do, which I thought was lovely with, with us, was that if he did stumble upon an etymological fascination, for example, then he would try very quickly to catch up with himself and make it into a story. So, you know, if we were in the park and we saw a squirrel, he'd say, "Ah, squirrel, skia aura, the Greek of shadowy tail." But then he would say, because that feather boa tail dances in the night
10:21 Speaker 01 and makes these nebulous shadows. And so then there was a little story for us to cleave to, and I... Loved it. I absolutely loved it. And it's the rabbit hole I've never climbed out of.
10:36 Speaker 02 Yes, yes. I didn't realize that your love for etymology came from your father.
10:40 Speaker 01 Oh, yes. Oh.
10:41 Speaker 02 Okay.
10:42 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And then coupled with that, he does to this day what I call a sort of dance of the synonym. So we recently had lunch and he, he said, oh, Sonny Jim, that was lovely, but all too brief, short-lived, ephemeral, fleeting. And he'll just go, and it's like, and it's what I feel about words. It's, it's, I'm just gonna chew and chew and chew until I find the one that satisfies those sort of untapped pockets of my mouth. You know, it's very, it's almost sensual. It's not intellectual at all. It's, it's a, it's a very physical thrill.
11:25 Speaker 02 It's interesting. To me, it feels like you grew up very much as an adult.
11:31 Speaker 01 Yes. With the exception of, and I suppose this feeds into the other element, my sort of, my androgyny and my taste.
11:42 Speaker 02 Okay.
11:44 Speaker 01 Because romantically, sexually, I was very, very green. And I had no context for my sexual identity. I remember vividly being aroused watching The Gladiators when I was about five.
12:01 Speaker 02 Okay.
12:02 Speaker 01 And, and I didn't know what it was. I didn't know it was arousal.
12:05 Speaker 02 Ah, I see.
12:05 Speaker 01 I just knew it was sort of a nice feeling in my home entertainment center, you know? And, and, and I sort of thought, oh, I'd like that feeling again. But it was years and years before I had any context for it. And then what happened was, I think, by musicals, actually, funnily enough. And here were these sort of wonderfully dynamic, zestful, strong women.
12:33 Speaker 01 And I loved all of those elements of them, but they were also the recipient of rather delicious men's affection. And I, because I had no queer frame of reference at all in my life or in media.
12:50 Speaker 02 Yes.
12:51 Speaker 01 I always imagined being them. And I mean, I, I must have watched Brief Encounter with Divine Celia Johnson thirteen times, at least before I was thirteen.
13:05 Speaker 02 Before you were thirteen?
13:06 Speaker 01 And I mean, it was a bizarre frame of reference for a little boy.
13:10 Speaker 02 I don't think any thirteen year old has ever watched Brief Encounter.
13:13 Speaker 01 No, no. I would get lost. I'd get utterly lost. I'd forget I had a corporeal being. I'd just be completely in it.
13:21 Speaker 02 I think we view identity differently as a child than we do as, as an adult. But it's in that adolescence period, all the way through to early adulthood, that we're, we're, we're struggling with who are, who do we believe we are?
13:38 Speaker 01 Who do we believe we are?
13:39 Speaker 02 Yes.
13:40 Speaker 01 That's very true. And the word actually that's in that group, along with identity and individuality, which I adore, adore, but it's only really used disparagingly, is eccentric.
13:54 Speaker 02 Okay.
13:55 Speaker 01 Because I'm often described as eccentric and I love the word. And I love its etymology because it comes from the Greek ek kentron, out of the center or away from the center. And I think one silver lining of being at a difficult school where, you know, there, there was, there was a lot of bullying and it was uncomfortable. But, but what that makes you do, I suppose, is you think, well, what, what must I cleave to here? Because.
14:40 Speaker 01 This is what seems to upset them about me. But it's arrived in me. I haven't asked for it to come. It's just sort of bubbled up in me in a sort of Vesuvian way. And I can't remove it. So therefore, you have, and this was, it sounds like it was an epiphany. It was a very long coach date. But you think, therefore, I need to find a way to celebrate it. It's the only way I can survive is to celebrate it.
15:23 Speaker 02 Can I ask, though? Because I find this to be very interesting because you're still in your early teens at this point.
15:30 Speaker 01 Yes, yes.
15:31 Speaker 02 So at this point, what I believe many teenagers do is they figure out how can they reduce themselves? How can they hide what makes them exceptional? How do they pull back?
15:49 Speaker 02 Opposed to, let me celebrate? Especially when you're met with resistance and bullying. So as much as you want to say, is can you talk about what that resistance was that you were getting? What that was? And then also, what do you believe it was within that allowed you to celebrate opposed to hide?
16:13 Speaker 01 Well, the resistance mercifully was never violent. But it was a constant, constant barrage of verbal abuse. I was very lucky because in my immediate orbit, I had a group of friends. And we were terribly close. And we were all othered for one reason or another. We had strength in that little unit.
16:51 Speaker 01 And it really helped us survive. And something happened when I was 16 that kind of made us all politically aware at school. And it was sort of hot debate. And it was the time I sort of came out, really. Because there was a wonderful Anglican reverend called Reverend Geoffrey John. And he was nominated to be Bishop of Reading. And I believe I'm right in saying, this might be wrong. But I believe I'm right in saying that he would have been the first gay bishop. So suddenly, it wasn't just Reading news or Berkshire news.
17:36 Speaker 01 It was national news.
17:39 Speaker 02 So it was through your desire to see this human being treated as a human being.
17:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
17:47 Speaker 02 That that inspired you to come out?
17:51 Speaker 01 Yes, and also, it was a wonderful, selfishly, it was a wonderful sort of dress rehearsal, if you like, for coming out. Because I could test the water.
18:06 Speaker 02 I see.
18:06 Speaker 01 With people and see where they were politically.
18:10 Speaker 02 I see.
18:11 Speaker 01 And I found to my delight that my parents had long divorced by then. But they were both pro the bishop.
18:22 Speaker 02 So when you reflect upon your teenage years now?
18:26 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:27 Speaker 02 How do you characterize them?
18:29 Speaker 01 Very muddled, very uncomfortable. But very important. Because I think all the really big epiphanies about the importance of being, again Shakespeare, to thine own self be true, of that, even when it's uncomfortable, especially when it's uncomfortable.
18:56 Speaker 02 Yes.
18:56 Speaker 01 And the arts as my ultimate safe space.
19:02 Speaker 02 All right, I want to show you a photo. I want you to tell me, not only who is in the photo, but how do you feel upon reflecting on this photo?
19:11 Speaker 01 Oh.
19:12 Speaker 02 Okay, ready?
19:16 Speaker 01 Oh, fair, that's it.
19:19 Speaker 02 Take a look at that.
19:23 Speaker 02 Who is in that photo?
19:24 Speaker 01 My. That's me, and that's my sister Miranda, and my brother Jack. He was a baby. Oh, he was, I still think he was the cutest baby who's ever lived.
19:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, Jack is a good-looking guy.
19:43 Speaker 01 He's a handsome chap.
19:44 Speaker 02 He's a, yeah, but I think Miranda is beautiful.
19:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
19:48 Speaker 02 And big, big brother there is not too bad.
19:53 Speaker 02 He's not too bad.
19:58 Speaker 02 See, you accepted it, thank you.
20:00 Speaker 01 I did, didn't I?
20:01 Speaker 02 That was very.
20:01 Speaker 01 I did, actually.
20:02 Speaker 02 Well-executed, well-executed. So, how does it feel, looking back at that photo now?
20:09 Speaker 01 Well.
20:12 Speaker 01 That's, that's quite amazing, actually. I haven't seen this for a very long time. Goodness knows where you laid your mitts on it.
20:22 Speaker 01 But it's, I remember that time so well, because we were so excited. I mean, we thought he was our baby.
20:28 Speaker 02 Yes.
20:28 Speaker 01 We absolutely thought he was our baby, Miranda and I. Because, you know, we, we'd been rubbing along as a pair for such a long time, because, because there was such a tiny age gap. And when Jack came along, and, oh my God, we just delighted in him. I think there's something that we have in common in our family is that
20:56 Speaker 01 we're all outwardly quite sunny. And I think that there's a commonality in people that have sunny disposition. Sometimes they run towards the light, because they need to run towards the light. And I have always felt.
21:18 Speaker 01 That I've got it like right here in the solar plexus, like an, almost like an onyx or obsidian jewel that is quite melancholic and threatens to double in size or quadruple in size even sometimes. And my whole family are like that. And we've seen it where, you know, it does quadruple in size and it can't be controlled anymore. And so I think that we have a very nuanced understanding of, of mental health.
22:02 Speaker 01 And I think therefore we're very, very sympathetic to each other, but also very celebratory of each other, wherever you are on the graph, you know.
22:15 Speaker 02 Yes.
22:16 Speaker 01 And it's, they're my sine qua non's, really.
22:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, I could see it. I'll hold on to that, but I'll give that to you.
22:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
22:24 Speaker 02 I'll give that to you.
22:25 Speaker 01 Thank you, darling. Yes, I'm gonna frame this, because I didn't, I didn't actually have this photo.
22:30 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it right back to you. Let me, let me put it right here, so it doesn't, um. I'm curious with your, your brother and sister, Jack and Miranda, because they were this refuge for you. When you were facing the harder times, bullying at school, did you share that with them?
22:49 Speaker 01 Yes, especially, well, Jack was so much younger that he was, we, um, at my dad's house, we all chose to share a room.
22:58 Speaker 02 Are you?
22:59 Speaker 01 So we had our own rooms, but, but we all decided that, that there were bunk beds and then we put a third bed in so that we could just witter away like magpies, and we really did.
23:12 Speaker 02 You really loved each other.
23:14 Speaker 01 Really loved each other. And my brother was on the top bunk, and so he would be asleep because he was so much younger. And then my sister was on the lower bunk. And speaking of dispossoming, I mean, I really, I.
23:30 Speaker 01 I half regret it now because it was a lot to put on Miranda. Because I did all my disbosoming with her.
23:41 Speaker 01 Very often I couldn't eat. And so she was trying to grapple with that too, you know. I mean, she basically was just a tremendous listener. And it was sort of the talking cure. I was just sharing everything, really. And she wasn't steering me. But she was just this wonderfully altruistic, sympathetic ear.
24:18 Speaker 02 You know, what she was doing, how you describe it, is she was holding space for you.
24:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
24:25 Speaker 02 Because it sounds like she didn't necessarily have the answers for you.
24:30 Speaker 01 No.
24:30 Speaker 02 But she made you feel safe, seen.
24:33 Speaker 01 Yes.
24:34 Speaker 02 And heard.
24:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
24:35 Speaker 02 And you knew that she was always there for you.
24:38 Speaker 01 Yes, yes.
24:39 Speaker 02 That's the premise of Holding Space.
24:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. And that's what she does so remarkably for her boys. And actually, my great loves, and you're included in that, do that with their children.
24:56 Speaker 02 One more, and then we move on from this place, is I did not know, this is my first time hearing this, that you, there was a challenge with you eating during that time.
25:10 Speaker 01 Yes, I think I was like, I was a knot, really, you know. I was just sort of so, so, so tightly wound. And so sometimes I would struggle with that. You know, I'd struggle with the simplest things.
25:34 Speaker 01 Also, food has always been my sort of greatest.
25:40 Speaker 01 Source of of pleasure.
25:44 Speaker 01 You know, I didn't have very much. There's not very much tussling of the Ida down, sadly.
25:52 Speaker 01 And so that like those kind of lovely hedonistic pleasures.
25:56 Speaker 02 Yes.
25:58 Speaker 01 I didn't see very much. So so food has always been just this sort of utter joy. And I think there's this terrible voice, like little demonic voice in my head that says, oh, you know, things aren't right and you're a bit of a shaky craft at the moment. You haven't even got a sail up. And what if one of these things that you love also denied you? Or what if that that keenly felt anxiety prevented you doing it?
26:30 Speaker 02 Yes.
26:30 Speaker 01 And or enjoying it? And so that's what would periodically happen, I think, is that I then I just couldn't eat. I couldn't eat. I longed to eat.
26:42 Speaker 02 But you couldn't eat?
26:42 Speaker 01 But I couldn't eat.
26:43 Speaker 02 How how long would you go without eating?
26:46 Speaker 01 It would be.
26:48 Speaker 01 It would take me by surprise, so it wouldn't happen all the time. But sometimes I think I'd just sit down to eat and I'd realize that my body wasn't going to let me do it.
27:03 Speaker 02 Wow.
27:04 Speaker 01 And so.
27:10 Speaker 01 And again, Miranda was really my only confidant, you know? And it lasted a very long time. It lasted about
27:22 Speaker 01 probably about four years to the point that I thought this will never go away.
27:27 Speaker 02 Wow.
27:27 Speaker 01 I just have to live with this.
27:29 Speaker 02 Oh, my goodness. What what happened in in your life to to overcome that?
27:33 Speaker 01 Do you know, I'd never thought about it because I was very fortunate insofar as it melted away. And.
27:40 Speaker 02 How old were you?
27:42 Speaker 01 I think I was about ten when it started and I think I was about fourteen when it it sort of stopped. And actually, I I don't know whether this, whether there is interconnectivity. But looking back now, I started my coming out process at fourteen. And then finished around sixteen.
28:06 Speaker 02 Okay.
28:08 Speaker 01 And I wonder whether, I wonder whether the knot of having a secret
28:16 Speaker 01 that I knew was a time bomb and had to be shared.
28:21 Speaker 02 Yes.
28:23 Speaker 01 So it was just sort of like being at base camp of Kilimanjaro and looking up and thinking, there's no, I have to get to the top.
28:32 Speaker 02 Yes.
28:32 Speaker 01 But, um, gosh, what a lot of effort and
28:37 Speaker 01 along the way.
28:38 Speaker 02 Yes.
28:38 Speaker 01 Where are my crampons? You know, so, uh,
28:46 Speaker 01 perhaps, perhaps they were, perhaps they were connected. I don't know.
28:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, perhaps.
28:55 Speaker 03 Hi guys, I'm Adam and I want my dad, Tom Ash, to call me.
29:02 Speaker 04 Welcome to ID Mobile. Please leave your message after the tone.
29:06 Speaker 03 Dad, I'm looking at some of our texts and they're really funny. I texted you in January that I'm going to South Africa. And you said,
29:22 Speaker 03 I think what you mean by the thumbs up emoji, at least, I hope that's what you mean by the thumbs up emoji is something like, I understand and I hear you. I feel like if you called me, you could read me a little bit better and maybe you could understand the emotions that I'm going through in any given moment. You like to think that you're a pretty funny guy, right? I know I roll my eyes at your dad jokes all the time, but I still like to hear them. So call me and, you know, tell me your dad jokes.
29:59 Speaker 02 I'm a dad who sends text messages
30:02 Speaker 03 Okay.
30:03 Speaker 02 to his sons. And I'm ashamed to admit this, but I don't recall the last time I called them.
30:12 Speaker 03 As a dad, have you sent a thumbs up emoji in the past year?
30:18 Speaker 02 Please don't be disappointed in me.
30:21 Speaker 03 And why would that be?
30:23 Speaker 02 It's trying to speak from an emotional standpoint without using words, because that's an emoji.
30:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, that sounds like you're trying to cop out.
30:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, it is for sure. I mean, you have truly impacted how I will proceed with my boys. I'm calling.
30:49 Speaker 03 And I'm sure that, you know, as your relationship progresses with them, they will appreciate it as well.
30:54 Speaker 02 We're in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. We want you to ditch the texts and make it a call. And now, because of my conversation with Adam, that's going to include me.
31:12 Speaker 02 So at 21, roughly, what was, what did you consider your identity to be?
31:19 Speaker 01 That was the beginning. I suppose that was the beginning of my attempting to be a real thespian.
31:26 Speaker 02 Okay.
31:28 Speaker 01 Myself, which I'd always longed for. And, but I wasn't very successful. But I did, I did work quite a lot.
31:40 Speaker 02 Okay, so 21, though, your desire was what? What was the dream?
31:46 Speaker 01 I suppose I really wanted to sort of...
31:51 Speaker 01 Be on Broadway clutching a Tony.
31:54 Speaker 02 Okay.
31:54 Speaker 01 The award.
31:57 Speaker 02 See, I knew it.
31:59 Speaker 01 Pregnant pause.
32:00 Speaker 02 Yes, it was very dramatic, that was perfect. But now, as a struggling, impoverished thespian.
32:07 Speaker 01 Yes.
32:08 Speaker 02 You must have had some wild jobs.
32:11 Speaker 01 Oh, I did.
32:11 Speaker 02 What were some of those?
32:12 Speaker 01 I seemed always to be in hats.
32:16 Speaker 01 Because I played, I played the Mad Hatter and then I did a national tour of the Cat in the Hat, which I loved.
32:22 Speaker 02 Okay.
32:23 Speaker 01 The first show I did after the Royal Academy of Music was a new musical version of Sleeping Beauty. And I was essentially Maleficent, but I was, I was called Fireina in the, in the play.
32:36 Speaker 02 Okay.
32:36 Speaker 01 And I always did a word of the day with the company, which is why I ended up doing it.
32:43 Speaker 02 That's the beginning of word of the day?
32:44 Speaker 01 That was the beginning. I always did it, every time I was in a, in a theatre company.
32:49 Speaker 02 Okay.
32:50 Speaker 01 And, and my prince, who's a friend to this day, very naughty boy called Matt Nolton. He's one of the naughtiest people I've ever known, much naughtier than me, believe it or not.
33:03 Speaker 02 No, impossible.
33:04 Speaker 01 And much smuttier than me. And in those days, I was still really quite green, especially where smutty vocab was concerned. Again, believe it or not, but it is true. And he thought that he would match my word of the day with the lexicon of smut.
33:24 Speaker 02 Oh, interesting.
33:26 Speaker 01 And on opening night, he taught me the word bukkake.
33:32 Speaker 02 You know, I've only, as an adult, I learned, I mean, like, when I say as an adult, like, within the last maybe eight years, I've heard about this word.
33:40 Speaker 01 It suddenly reached you.
33:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's new.
33:44 Speaker 01 Yes.
33:45 Speaker 02 For me.
33:45 Speaker 01 Yes, yes. Well, it was very new to me then. And actually, I've subsequently investigated it and it's not.
33:57 Speaker 01 Sounds awful.
33:58 Speaker 02 You did. Did you enjoy that?
33:59 Speaker 01 I loved it. I've invested, I've investigated the etymology.
34:04 Speaker 02 Okay.
34:05 Speaker 01 And it's, it's very innocuous because it comes from the Japanese verb bukakaru, meaning to splash. And they have a dish in Japan called bukkake that is a noodle dish, where the noodles are liberally splashed by sauce. So it's very unfortunate for the word that it got marooned in porn here.
34:23 Speaker 02 So how does that, how does something like that happen? How, how is a-
34:27 Speaker 01 Oh, bukkake.
34:31 Speaker 01 Well, it's timing, really. I think it's all timing.
34:34 Speaker 02 How, how is, how is a word like that hijacked? Cause I feel like, cause you're-
34:40 Speaker 01 It's awful, isn't it?
34:41 Speaker 02 It is, cause you're talking about a dish. It's probably a pleasant-
34:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
34:44 Speaker 02 Noodle dish.
34:45 Speaker 01 Actually, it could have been marooned in meteorology. We could say, gosh, that's bukkake.
34:49 Speaker 02 Exactly. Look at that.
34:52 Speaker 01 Coming from the skies.
34:53 Speaker 02 But, but how are words, they're hijacked?
34:57 Speaker 01 I don't know. Maybe it became, maybe it became a porn category in the east and then it jumped to the west. I don't know.
35:06 Speaker 02 Okay. So then, how do all of these jobs, these odd jobs, if you will, but they're not odd because you're building your resume, you're building your chops. How do you go from there to The Voice?
35:20 Speaker 01 Oh, well, I suppose in a, in a roundabout way, it was because of those jobs. Cause I was doing at the Theatre Royal Windsor, which I love, adorable kind of cuckoo clock of a theatre. It's just enchanting. I was doing a play called Sweet Revenge. I, I was getting these sort of pleasant supporting roles. And I thought, I need to do something bold because I'm nearly 30 and I need to, I really need to think of something. And so I secretly, I don't know what made me think of it, but I secretly auditioned for The Voice.
36:02 Speaker 01 And it is all very clandestine until you get on the show. You know, none of the auditions are filmed. It's all very secret. And they were-
36:13 Speaker 01 So lovely to me. I mean, it was the best first exposure to telly I think one could possibly have because you were handled with kid gloves and so well looked after and you were ascribed a vocal coach that befit your style.
36:29 Speaker 02 Interesting.
36:30 Speaker 01 And given a beautiful, original arrangement.
36:33 Speaker 02 But you had to audition prior to
36:37 Speaker 01 Oh, yes.
36:38 Speaker 02 That piece, right? So even that process was your idea, I need to do this because I need, like, I need to move my career to another level?
36:50 Speaker 01 Well, when I did it, it was, I think it was around the time that some of my theatre heroes had done it, people like Carrie Ellis. And it really, it really helped with
37:04 Speaker 02 Accelerated their career.
37:05 Speaker 01 With her theatre career.
37:07 Speaker 02 Okay.
37:07 Speaker 01 So that was my thought and that's why it was that show because that show seemed to me that it wasn't about getting a number one or anything like that, which I never could have done, you know, not that style of singing at all.
37:21 Speaker 02 So, do you know, I went back.
37:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:23 Speaker 02 And I watched
37:26 Speaker 01 Oh, you didn't see it? Oh, heavens sake.
37:27 Speaker 02 And I watched it with Jill and The Voice.
37:30 Speaker 01 Oh, no. Did you? It's not very good.
37:34 Speaker 02 No, no, no, no, no. Can I, so first, let me just set the stage for The Voice because I didn't realise that The Voice was, at this time, this is one of the biggest reality shows in the UK.
37:55 Speaker 01 Gosh, I didn't know that. I remember them saying to me on the day, they said, oh, you know, because you flopped, I mean, they didn't say that, but, but because you didn't get a turn.
38:07 Speaker 01 If you're lucky, we'll play a bit of your song, you know.
38:16 Speaker 01 And what they actually did was they played about seven minutes of, you know, my backstory and my interview and my song and my exchange with the judges. And it was a direct consequence of that, that, you know, celebs go dating came along. Because Frankie Nickel, who probably remember, lovely Frankie.
38:38 Speaker 02 Yes.
38:39 Speaker 01 Watched it and said, oh, we want somebody that's sort of jolly hockey sticks to to serve as the welcoming committee. And they didn't really know what, quite how it would work. But she thought, oh, well, that would that would fit because he's, you know, quite sunny.
39:02 Speaker 02 Sunny, yes. So can we go back to the voice?
39:08 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, we love it.
39:10 Speaker 02 So you were on stage.
39:12 Speaker 01 Yes.
39:13 Speaker 02 And do you remember what song you were singing?
39:14 Speaker 01 Yes, it was the oldest song of the series. It was written in 1947 and it's called Accentuate the Positive. And I love I love that that lyric is two of my favorite songs. I love for the same reason because they sort of describe my outlook. Cockeyed optimist and accentuate the positive.
39:36 Speaker 02 It was a perfectly placed song.
39:39 Speaker 01 Yes.
39:40 Speaker 02 I love that song. And I thought you I thought it was a it was a beautiful performance. And so I watched the judges.
39:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
39:51 Speaker 02 And the judges seemed to be, have you watched rewatched a clip of this?
39:55 Speaker 01 No.
39:56 Speaker 02 You've never watched this?
39:57 Speaker 01 Well, I did, I watched it when it came out.
40:00 Speaker 02 The judges appear to be, I mean, they're bobbing their heads, they're snapping. Boy George was going back and forth, he was doing this. I'm thinking they're all going to turn around.
40:12 Speaker 01 Oh, do you?
40:13 Speaker 02 I I thought they would all turn around.
40:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:15 Speaker 02 The judges then. Unfortunately, or fortunately, because of how your career then goes on.
40:22 Speaker 01 Yes.
40:23 Speaker 02 They did not turn around.
40:24 Speaker 01 No.
40:25 Speaker 02 However, when they do turn around, do you remember what they said?
40:28 Speaker 01 I remember what Will I Am said. I think he said, which has happened to me many times. In fact, I have to have a note on my bank that I put in place with the manager because I kept not getting past the fraud team, saying, has the voice of an octogenarian lady. And I think he, I think he more or less said that.
40:52 Speaker 02 He, he, he sure did. And to, because I, sometimes I have to act as a translator and interpreter for you. You're saying, the voice of an 80-year-old woman.
41:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
41:02 Speaker 02 For everybody at home.
41:03 Speaker 01 Exactly. I mean, I've had Angela Lansbury on the radio. I've had Fenella Fielding. I've had Anna Blackman.
41:09 Speaker 02 Yes.
41:11 Speaker 01 Who actually, when I had them, I think were all non-ogenarian ladies. So 80 is quite young for me.
41:19 Speaker 02 But this is what, he, he turns around. Yeah, he says, and he says, are you, I think the first, one of the first things he said is, are you serious?
41:27 Speaker 01 Did he?
41:28 Speaker 02 He's like, are you for real?
41:31 Speaker 02 Is this serious? And I noticed that was the common question.
41:35 Speaker 01 Well, you poor thing, you have it every day.
41:38 Speaker 02 I get this question all of the time, all of the time. I remember when I, when you were on I'm a Celebrity.
41:45 Speaker 01 Yes.
41:45 Speaker 02 I went on to this morning, and I also did the after show for I'm a Celebrity in support of you.
41:51 Speaker 01 Yes.
41:52 Speaker 02 The first question was, is he for real? Is this him? Is this his voice? Is he, you know, is, is he acting?
42:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
42:01 Speaker 02 How do you feel, knowing that this is typically the number one question about you?
42:10 Speaker 01 Again, I go back to that word eccentric. I delight in being eccentric, out of the center.
42:19 Speaker 02 Yes.
42:20 Speaker 01 And I don't mind if I'm a moon, sort of orbiting the planet in a way. I, I don't mind that at all. The only slight downfall, if I'm really pinning my colors to the mast, and because it's you I will, is that it's not an aphrodisiac, that's the only thing. It's like, I think that.
42:45 Speaker 01 In lots of ways, it's a help because it sort of contributes to one's silhouette.
42:53 Speaker 01 But it's not romantically, because it's very, I don't know, it's
43:01 Speaker 01 people don't want Angela Lansbury's voice coming out, you know, in a steamy setting.
43:10 Speaker 02 I mean, I, I, I, I mean, however far, but I will say this is that. I truly, I'm not just saying this to, to say it is, is that this is where I disagree with you.
43:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:23 Speaker 02 Now, I know there's lived experience.
43:25 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, yes.
43:27 Speaker 02 But I believe that because we are all individuals.
43:34 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:34 Speaker 02 We are all extraordinary.
43:37 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:38 Speaker 02 That there will be, and there is, a group of people who will just devour that.
43:47 Speaker 01 Well, that is true. I do, I do agree with you. It's like, I think I haven't got Lake Ontario. I've got a little puddle, but the puddle are keen.
43:58 Speaker 02 Yes.
43:58 Speaker 01 It's just that, you know, it's quite hard sometimes to locate the puddle.
44:02 Speaker 02 Yes, that's true.
44:03 Speaker 01 That's the only difficulty.
44:04 Speaker 02 That's true.
44:05 Speaker 01 You, you helped me, of course, once, darling, and you discovered how, how puddly the puddle is.
44:10 Speaker 02 Oh, my gosh. Can I talk about that?
44:12 Speaker 01 Yes, please do.
44:13 Speaker 02 Yes.
44:13 Speaker 01 I mean, I'm, I'm not embarrassed because I, I know, you know, I know from life.
44:17 Speaker 02 So I think it was, I went to Instagram once, right?
44:20 Speaker 01 Yes, you did. You were like, you were incredulous about my
44:26 Speaker 01 lack of good fortune in that department. So I thought, I'll throw open.
44:30 Speaker 02 I said, I'm, I'm going to find a partner for Tom.
44:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:33 Speaker 02 I was like, you know, I think we were having so much conversation. I said, oh, this is easy.
44:37 Speaker 01 Yes.
44:37 Speaker 02 This is nothing.
44:38 Speaker 01 Yes, yes.
44:39 Speaker 02 Just, just, I'll, I'll go on Instagram. So I go on Instagram and I'm trying to remember what I posted because I, I know I didn't disclose who you were, I don't believe, or did I?
44:50 Speaker 01 I can't remember.
44:52 Speaker 02 I think it was a, it was a bit nebulous.
44:55 Speaker 01 Yes, yeah.
44:56 Speaker 02 But I essentially was doing online matchmaking.
45:00 Speaker 01 You were?
45:00 Speaker 02 For you.
45:01 Speaker 01 You were?
45:01 Speaker 02 We had an incoming number. We had a group come in.
45:07 Speaker 01 Four.
45:09 Speaker 01 I don't mind, darling. This is, this is an honest space. That number is indelibly seared on my mental retina.
45:18 Speaker 02 Right, we, we had four, four, four come in, but
45:23 Speaker 02 however, you know, once again, it's the pool. I didn't have Lake Ontario. And there was one in particular that I think we had discussed that, that I thought was acceptable.
45:37 Speaker 01 Oh, right, I don't remember this.
45:38 Speaker 02 Was, was, uh, I, I thought he was a little old, though.
45:41 Speaker 01 Oh, right.
45:41 Speaker 02 I think he was a little old.
45:42 Speaker 01 Right.
45:43 Speaker 02 For you, right? Because, because you're very youthful, right? But what I realized in that process was that I was also ultra protective. So I was saying, no, won't work. Nope, it's not going to happen. No.
46:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:00 Speaker 02 I don't like, and, and, and that's when I realized that I would not be a help for you, which is also why when Jill and I had our matchmaking agency.
46:08 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:08 Speaker 02 We had a strict no friends.
46:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:11 Speaker 02 No family policy.
46:12 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, yes.
46:14 Speaker 02 We have to talk about celebs.
46:16 Speaker 01 Oh, we do, really?
46:17 Speaker 02 We have to talk about celebs because it was the, the, the voice that got you to celebs.
46:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:24 Speaker 02 And, and, and you said they were looking for you.
46:27 Speaker 01 Well.
46:27 Speaker 02 I think that's what's beautiful.
46:28 Speaker 01 Well, they didn't, I don't think they knew really what they were looking for.
46:33 Speaker 02 Okay.
46:33 Speaker 01 But, um, they knew that they were going to have, um, agents that needed to sort of be strict occasionally.
46:43 Speaker 02 Yes.
46:44 Speaker 01 Um, and needed to sort of know their stuff. So then, a, as a juxtaposition, they wanted somebody that was never strict
46:56 Speaker 01 and didn't know anything.
47:00 Speaker 01 And that was me. And then I, and I, I was very worried about it because I thought, you know, perhaps it would be sort of produced.
47:11 Speaker 02 Yes.
47:12 Speaker 01 And, and I went in to talk and I just had to talk. I had to talk to the man that created it, who was just sitting off camera. And I just chatted to him for about an hour about all kinds of things. And that, and then that was it.
47:29 Speaker 02 So then, Tom, what year was that, that you started Celebs Go Dating?
47:34 Speaker 01 2016, I think.
47:36 Speaker 02 2016?
47:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think so.
47:37 Speaker 02 So, so-
47:38 Speaker 01 It's ten years.
47:39 Speaker 02 Ten years?
47:40 Speaker 01 Yes.
47:40 Speaker 02 And I know there's been over 300 episodes, I believe.
47:44 Speaker 01 Yes, I think, yes, and then some.
47:47 Speaker 02 And, yeah, then some. Because it's interesting, I remember celebrating 100 episodes with you.
47:53 Speaker 01 Yes, and that was shortly after you arrived. And you must have amassed nearly 300 yourself.
47:59 Speaker 02 You're right, I think I've, I've done, you're right, I think I've done over 300.
48:02 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:03 Speaker 02 So then that year, so 2016, and Celebs Go Dating, the premise is, in essence, there's an agency.
48:10 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:10 Speaker 02 Celebrities are matched with quote unquote civilians in the public.
48:14 Speaker 01 Yes, that's right.
48:16 Speaker 02 It's narrated by the fabulous Rob Beckett.
48:18 Speaker 01 Oh my God, I met him at the first rap party. And I said, I've got, I've got to see you on stage. And then I followed him around, going to-
48:31 Speaker 02 To his show?
48:32 Speaker 01 Going to his live shows, because, I mean, I find him sidesplittingly funny.
48:38 Speaker 02 Yes, yes.
48:39 Speaker 01 It's that, it's the intersection of like, left field wit with observational comedy and the whole cocktail.
48:48 Speaker 02 It's interesting, because I think that the show is very, very good. And he takes something that's very, very good and just makes it extraordinary.
48:59 Speaker 01 He's quite incredible.
49:02 Speaker 02 Yes. Do you have a celeb or multiple celebrities who've stood out to you? And why, over the years?
49:11 Speaker 01 Oh, I loved, I absolutely adored Ulrika.
49:17 Speaker 02 Yes.
49:18 Speaker 01 I loved her because she-
49:24 Speaker 01 So
49:27 Speaker 01 longed to surrender to a romance. And yet she in lots of ways, we were sort of similar in that we'd sort of very happy with where we'd arrived.
49:42 Speaker 02 Yes.
49:43 Speaker 01 And yet she had this beautiful way of sort of saying, but I'm going to go on these
49:52 Speaker 01 adventures. And that's really what she made the dates with, kind of little adventures. And be so open and
50:02 Speaker 01 really invite whatever comes my way, very warmly.
50:07 Speaker 02 Yes.
50:08 Speaker 01 And I, and I just loved that. I loved that. And I thought she was witty and erudite and lovely.
50:14 Speaker 02 Also very kind.
50:15 Speaker 01 Very kind.
50:16 Speaker 02 She, I remember she baked bread.
50:19 Speaker 01 She baked us bread.
50:20 Speaker 02 And she brought it in. Yeah, just, just so off camera.
50:23 Speaker 01 Off camera.
50:24 Speaker 02 Just incredible.
50:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. And
50:29 Speaker 01 oh, and I loved I mean ones that come back, of course, you get to know them much better.
50:36 Speaker 02 Yes.
50:37 Speaker 01 Which is heaven because especially for me, because I have comparatively short scenes with them. So then I kind of clock up more time if they, if they
50:51 Speaker 02 Repeat.
50:52 Speaker 01 So Sam, of course.
50:53 Speaker 02 Yes, yes.
50:55 Speaker 01 Got to know him very well. And
51:00 Speaker 01 and we met outside several times, you know, he lived, lived locally and
51:08 Speaker 01 but, but you know, I have to say
51:13 Speaker 01 I've never disliked anyone.
51:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:16 Speaker 01 I, I've always
51:20 Speaker 01 I've always been very drawn to the characters, however divergent they are. It's been, that's been one of the loveliest parts, really.
51:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, I, I think that's super. Can I show you a photo?
51:32 Speaker 01 Oh, yes.
51:33 Speaker 02 All right, close your eyes. Close your eyes.
51:35 Speaker 01 Oh.
51:35 Speaker 02 All right.
51:36 Speaker 01 Oh.
51:36 Speaker 02 I want you to tell me what is happening in this photo and who are you with?
51:44 Speaker 01 Oh, this was just before your time, wasn't it?
51:49 Speaker 02 Yes, I think that's probably 2017.
51:52 Speaker 01 Oh heavens. This was on the plane either going to or coming back from Cat Verde.
52:00 Speaker 02 Okay.
52:00 Speaker 01 And it's, and it's J. Collins.
52:04 Speaker 02 Absolutely. You, you, you, you, you guys are knocked out.
52:08 Speaker 01 But this is like, this happened in phases because in the end, I think she was asleep on me.
52:19 Speaker 01 I think this was, this was the beginning.
52:23 Speaker 02 So now I come into the picture of celebs go dating in 2018. I'm gonna hold on to that one.
52:30 Speaker 01 Oh, dawning.
52:32 Speaker 02 Now we meet in 2018.
52:36 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:37 Speaker 02 And, you know, for me, it's 2018. I'm living in the United States.
52:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:44 Speaker 02 I'm given an opportunity to participate in a reality television show in a place that I'm unfamiliar with.
52:52 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:53 Speaker 02 A format I'm unfamiliar with, with a group of people I'm unfamiliar with. I've brought my family with me.
53:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
53:01 Speaker 02 But there still is a lot of stress and anxiety, if you will, around this. It was also a unique circumstance that I was being brought into.
53:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:12 Speaker 02 And so to have, to, to, to meet, you know, this person that I'll be working with and to immediately feel safe was very, very important for me, you know, for, for me participating.
53:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:31 Speaker 02 And then that feeling of safety, that you, you being the safety blanket for me, just continued. You know, and it's one of these where I truly, I attribute my time with you, I attribute, I, I put Anna, you know, our colleague Anna in this is that, it was through the two of you that... I fell in love with the UK. And in particular, our first year together.
53:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
53:59 Speaker 02 It was magical.
54:01 Speaker 01 It was.
54:02 Speaker 02 And I was introduced to British culture through your eyes. And I think that I'm so privileged to have had that opportunity. So many people say, oh, gosh, I wish, I want Tom in my life, right? And I say, well, you know what? I've got him in my life. And on top of that, like, this is me bragging. Not only is he in my life, but I was introduced to the UK through you. And that is so, like, I can't even describe it. To the point where so many people will say, really? You're making the UK your home? Really? You want to be here? And my response, absolutely.
54:46 Speaker 02 Do you know how incredible it is? You know, you think about whether it was just us in Liverpool.
54:53 Speaker 01 Yes. Yes.
54:55 Speaker 02 And our time Liverpool, we're filming Liverpool, but just spending that time, I felt we had day dates.
55:01 Speaker 01 We did. We did. And, you know, and I feel so sorry for you, darling, because I, very often when we're out, I pretend we're a couple. But the thing is, the undergirding, the top layer of that cake is that it's a nice fantasy. But the bottom layer of that cake is that this is one of the great romances of my life. And it's platonic, but it's, but I fell in love with you then. And I think that's maybe why I thought initially, do I have a crush?
55:43 Speaker 01 And I, but I think I did have a crush for a while, but. But I think maybe the reason that it had a little sequel was that all of these things were conflated in my mind because I was like, I'm, I love him. You know, I'm sort of in love with him, but I no longer want to, you know, consummate it. And, and I, I'm also in love with his family.
56:14 Speaker 02 Yes.
56:15 Speaker 01 And, and so I knew that, I was like, oh, this is just a love affair. And I, and actually, everything shifted for me in the last eighteen months to two years because I, I am sort of rubbing along so happily as, as a single person. And I'm so happy with my lot. And I think because I always had a, a romantic soul. And I think I do in terms of art and in terms of my sensibility.
56:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
56:50 Speaker 01 Um, I think that I always thought that the thing that was missing from my life is a gentleman. And now I don't. If it tumbled into my life, I'd be happy as a clam. But I don't, I don't seek it.
57:10 Speaker 02 But you don't seek it?
57:11 Speaker 01 No. I'd like to know that feeling at some stage, you know? I found my person, you know, that, that, that would be nice. And to be, be in a kind of real romantic haze where it kind of put on your occhiali rosa and everything was slightly better for doing it with the person, you know?
57:39 Speaker 02 Do you feel like, you don't have to answer this at all?
57:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:43 Speaker 02 Have you ever had that feeling?
57:48 Speaker 01 No, I don't think so. Not, not, no, not really. Not really. I got near to it with one person, but.
58:04 Speaker 01 But no, I haven't had it yet.
58:07 Speaker 02 Okay, it's coming.
58:09 Speaker 01 It's coming.
58:11 Speaker 02 It's coming.
58:12 Speaker 01 It's coming. I mean, this is why I do think it's very naughty when, you know, when I'm out and about with you and I'll say, you know, I pretend you're my spouse and things.
58:22 Speaker 02 Well, so, I mean, connecting this even to celebs is that you have made me officially naughty.
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58:58 Speaker 06 Bonjour, compadre. It's the
59:02 Speaker 06 How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget, the Priceline app. It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle. Deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Hold your horses, there's more. The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities, like pools and spas and beachfronts. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me off.
59:29 Speaker 02 You know, I am, my level of naughtiness has now just... Even the boys have noticed it. They're like, damn, like, what happened to you?
59:38 Speaker 01 I'm purer than the driven slouch.
59:44 Speaker 02 Absolutely not, and everyone knows you knows that is the biggest lie in the world. I, to the point where, when we're fil-- in particular, I've noticed it with celebs go dating, is that I feel as if we can just empty our souls to each other.
1:00:02 Speaker 01 Empty ossos.
1:00:04 Speaker 02 Empty our souls, you know?
1:00:05 Speaker 01 Empty ossos.
1:00:10 Speaker 02 You know what? It's time for you to leave already. You know, it's, what time is it? Hold on, it's time for you to leave. But, but, but, but you know, it's, it's, it's so, um... Also, can I say this on this is that this kind of banter is my biggest gripe with Slubs Go Dating. Can I talk about my biggest gripe?
1:00:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, I do.
1:00:33 Speaker 02 My biggest gripe is that, so, once I got to the show.
1:00:38 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:39 Speaker 02 Anna comes in the following year, Anna Williamson, who we love.
1:00:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:43 Speaker 02 Dr. Tara comes in.
1:00:45 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:45 Speaker 02 A few years later.
1:00:46 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:47 Speaker 02 We have a scene in the morning called "Morning at the Agency."
1:00:52 Speaker 01 We do.
1:00:52 Speaker 02 Right? Where you are in the agency doing something.
1:00:57 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:57 Speaker 02 We all walk in, the three of us walk in.
1:00:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:01:00 Speaker 02 And collectively, it's improv.
1:01:02 Speaker 01 It is, really, isn't it? Yes.
1:01:04 Speaker 02 It's improv. And we improv a scene together.
1:01:07 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:01:07 Speaker 02 Those scenes are my favorite scenes of Slubs Go Dating.
1:01:15 Speaker 01 Mine, too.
1:01:16 Speaker 02 Do they ever make it in the edit?
1:01:19 Speaker 01 No. No, no, no, no.
1:01:22 Speaker 02 They never make it in the edit. We've done some incredible things. What has been your favorite?
1:01:27 Speaker 01 My second favorite scenes, um, I have to just bring up because...
1:01:33 Speaker 02 Oh, am I?
1:01:34 Speaker 01 Because they're your least favorite scenes.
1:01:36 Speaker 02 Oh, my gosh, okay.
1:01:38 Speaker 01 Of what we call, um, master intuitions. And I'm ashamed of myself for loving them so much because they're very masturbatory. Because you, you sit in a room and you're down the barrel of, you know, they whip out the cannon in a non-naughty way.
1:01:53 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:01:54 Speaker 01 And you go down the barrel and you say whatever pops into your head. And it's love, I just love it. As a, as a sort of make the gray cells dance.
1:02:03 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:02:04 Speaker 01 And the synapses snap exercise. I, I love it.
1:02:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, you do. I don't know why, but you do.
1:02:10 Speaker 01 You love it, don't you?
1:02:12 Speaker 02 I despise it.
1:02:19 Speaker 02 Hey there. We have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit follow and the bell icon and I'll see you for the next one.
1:02:31 Speaker 02 Had you always wanted to go on I'm a Celebrity?
1:02:35 Speaker 01 Truthfully, and Ant and Dec used to tease me mercilessly about this. I hadn't really seen it. But, um, but I am
1:02:48 Speaker 01 an adventurer by nature. I've never been very good at sport. I'm, you're going to think I'm joking now, but my ball skills aren't very good. But I do love climbing a tree or swimming in an alpine lake or, um, going on a hike or a ramble. But all of that outdoorsy stuff, I love.
1:03:12 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:03:13 Speaker 01 And, um, so when, when it came up, I thought, and I, and this is a real life mantra for me. If, if there's no reason to say no, except that you're frightened of things, you must do it. And I was frightened about things that I hadn't great knowledge of. Like, I don't know if I'll be frightened of creepy crawlies and rodents and things like that. But I was more worried about tossing in my cot and things like that because I, because I'm
1:03:46 Speaker 01 always scared about not sleeping.
1:03:48 Speaker 02 Oh, interesting. So you were more scared of not sleeping?
1:03:52 Speaker 01 Much more scared.
1:03:53 Speaker 02 Than anything else?
1:03:54 Speaker 01 Much, much, much more scared of that. But I actually had the most, it was short, it was very truncated. But the sleep quality was out of this world.
1:04:09 Speaker 02 It was?
1:04:09 Speaker 01 Oh, it was so deep. It was really. A very hypnotic environment.
1:04:15 Speaker 02 Interesting. And what is the environment like actually? Because of course, we see it from the audience's perspective.
1:04:23 Speaker 01 Well, that camp part is very small, and it's smaller than it looks.
1:04:29 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 But the actual campsite, if you will, is sprawling.
1:04:35 Speaker 02 Is it?
1:04:36 Speaker 01 And I spent a huge amount of time, because we had eighteen waking hours, really. And I spent a huge amount of time communing with nature. And there was a spot at the bottom of the creek where we would sort of collect wood for the fire.
1:04:52 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:04:53 Speaker 01 And it was tranquil there, but it was also very noisy, but in a delicious natural world way. So the creek would babble furiously. There was a bush turkey that had like, I mean, extraordinary like, kind of not what you'd think would come out of it, sort of basso profundo. And then laughing cockaburras in the canopy.
1:05:20 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:05:20 Speaker 01 And then I had a miner bird that imitated my whistle.
1:05:24 Speaker 02 Yes, yes.
1:05:26 Speaker 01 Just amazing.
1:05:27 Speaker 02 Which I will definitely testify, I have been on a trip with you. I forgot where we were, I think Dominican Republic. And I watched, I observed you.
1:05:37 Speaker 01 Those little terrapins.
1:05:38 Speaker 02 Yes, communicate with animals and literally have them communicate back to you.
1:05:45 Speaker 01 Yes, I would sing Getting to Know You, and all the baby terrapins came up today.
1:05:49 Speaker 02 Yes, yes, on cue. So now, what did you love the most about that experience?
1:06:02 Speaker 01 I loved that level of socialization because I live alone. And a lot of my life, and actually quite a lot of my work is solitary. And so that intense a spell in my life of socialization was really lovely. And then the communing with nature.
1:06:28 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:06:29 Speaker 01 But the...
1:06:32 Speaker 01 The impact that had on me is the thing that I longed to kind of take with me forever back into life because, because of living alone and because of having something slightly melancholic inside me. I can be introspective, quite introspective, and you can't be there. I believe it's a physical impossibility because we had one little mirror, which I'd never looked in because it was just too ghastly. And we, there was no way to be aware of self, you know, of having a face and a body. There was just, you forgot it.
1:07:17 Speaker 01 You became a kind of floating phantom that was ingesting everything, ingesting, ingesting, ingesting, and therefore one's lens went utterly out.
1:07:28 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:07:29 Speaker 01 And I thought, oh, what would it be like to live this way if you could just, just ingest?
1:07:39 Speaker 02 Hmm.
1:07:40 Speaker 01 And just delight in all that was in your orbit and, and lose track totally of the ego, I suppose. And I remember thinking to myself before we left, oh, if I could keep a thimble of this, I'd be happy.
1:07:59 Speaker 02 Wow.
1:08:00 Speaker 01 Just a thimble.
1:08:01 Speaker 02 Wow. I find that so interesting because, and I have heard this before, especially about I'm a Celebrity, is there is something that happens there where you evolve.
1:08:12 Speaker 01 Oh, oh, it's extraordinary. And I think that's why a lot of people.
1:08:25 Speaker 01 Have an intensely vulnerable moment, which I did about halfway through. I just, I couldn't stop weeping. I just couldn't stop weeping for nearly a day, actually. And, um,
1:08:42 Speaker 01 and it was because my body was going through a transition, I think, of losing the ego and
1:08:52 Speaker 01 living, just looking outwards.
1:08:55 Speaker 02 But it fits, it fits almost poetically within this eighteen months of transition, this transition period for you.
1:09:05 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:09:05 Speaker 02 Because I would imagine that you have been able to maintain more than a thimble of your outlook from, from the jungle as you've now come back.
1:09:16 Speaker 01 Yes, I mean, I wish, if I'm really truthful, I wish I had retained more.
1:09:22 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:09:22 Speaker 01 Because I think what, what happens when you come out is that all of those other things spike, actually. You know, the, the things that very much root you into, into the civilized world. We all, we all actually made a pact that we would stay off our devices for another forty-eight hours.
1:09:43 Speaker 02 Oh, really?
1:09:44 Speaker 01 And we all adhere to that because
1:09:48 Speaker 01 we, we so loved what it had done to us, you know.
1:09:54 Speaker 02 So everyone agreed to this?
1:09:56 Speaker 01 All agreed.
1:09:57 Speaker 02 All agreed.
1:09:58 Speaker 01 And I think everybody, I think everybody did it.
1:10:00 Speaker 02 Look at that, look at that. While in the jungle.
1:10:03 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:10:05 Speaker 02 Was there a person or two that you felt, that you formed an especially strong relationship with?
1:10:13 Speaker 01 Oh, gosh. I felt so very close to age. I love, I love him so. I love him so. And we, you know, his siblings are also his, his best chums.
1:10:26 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:10:27 Speaker 01 And he, there was so much that we had in common, actually. Like, he loves playing with language and bending words and twisting them about and sort of seeing what shapes they make. And he's deeply inspiring with, and the lyrics to his pieces are.
1:10:52 Speaker 01 Oh my goodness, I mean, he's, he's Keats. He's, he's, he's remarkable.
1:10:57 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:10:58 Speaker 01 And, um, so, and, and Shona, I felt that we sort of shared a soul in a way.
1:11:09 Speaker 01 I, I, I was so impressed by her and she was
1:11:16 Speaker 01 discovering herself in that setting and discovering
1:11:23 Speaker 01 how much power lay in, in her talents. And that was just lovely to be close to that and, and watch that gradual epiphany.
1:11:38 Speaker 02 You, you gave her some phenomenal advice in there.
1:11:41 Speaker 01 Oh, did I?
1:11:42 Speaker 02 You did, you did.
1:11:44 Speaker 01 Oh, what did I say?
1:11:45 Speaker 02 Your, your, your relationship advice in particular.
1:11:49 Speaker 01 Oh, darling.
1:11:50 Speaker 02 Oh, yes, you were on it, you were on it. Uh, but in essence, you were helping her to understand the power that she already possesses and how special she is.
1:12:01 Speaker 01 Oh, I believe that because, you know, I think that,
1:12:07 Speaker 01 she had to have
1:12:10 Speaker 01 a measure of time after the jungle and she really has, especially where that platinum larynx of hers is concerned. Where she celebrated that and, and saw what happened to have, to have,
1:12:26 Speaker 01 the zenith of her
1:12:29 Speaker 01 artistic ambitions be realized as a singer. And that was, that was thrilling. I thought, there's no cloud in this clear blue sky for her, you know, this is, this is, this is a boon.
1:12:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, and, and you could see she believed, in my opinion, she believed more in herself because she saw that you believed in her.
1:12:51 Speaker 01 Oh, well, I hope so. I hope so.
1:12:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I know so, I know so. Anyone else that you felt really?
1:13:01 Speaker 01 Oh, gosh.
1:13:02 Speaker 02 Did it for you?
1:13:03 Speaker 01 Oh, yes.
1:13:04 Speaker 02 I mean, I know everyone did to a certain extent.
1:13:06 Speaker 01 Yes, everyone did to a certain extent, and I think that was what was so special about it, was that we were so harmonious, and we had a conversation as a group, led, I think, by Jack, who was just the loveliest soul, the loveliest, gentlest soul.
1:13:21 Speaker 02 This is Jack Osborne?
1:13:22 Speaker 01 Jack Osborne, somebody built to be a father, because he's like you, he's just generous of spirit, just giving, and
1:13:32 Speaker 01 and his antennae are always up. And very sophisticated,
1:13:40 Speaker 01 nuanced, emotional, understanding. And he said,
1:13:46 Speaker 01 and Ruby said it too, at a different time.
1:13:49 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:13:50 Speaker 01 Isn't it special that we've made a microcosm that's entirely harmonious when, you know, we know, well, we don't know in that moment what's happening outside, but we know what was happening outside when we came in.
1:14:04 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:14:04 Speaker 01 And we have been given the tools in this microcosmic world to make what we'd like, what we'd like to see. And we all decided that what we'd like to see is harmony.
1:14:24 Speaker 02 Wow.
1:14:25 Speaker 01 And and so it was a conscious, it was a conscious thought uttered by more than one person and felt by all.
1:14:34 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:14:35 Speaker 01 Keenly felt by all.
1:14:38 Speaker 01 And those two actually were, I was very close to them as well. And the other person I have-
1:14:43 Speaker 02 Are you saying Jack and Ruby Wax? Yep.
1:14:46 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, and the other person I
1:14:50 Speaker 01 have to mention is Martin, because, oh, my God, Martin is-
1:14:57 Speaker 01 Fascinating. He can speak Polari. And Polari was a secret gay language, pre-decriminalisation of homosexuality. And people could speak it mainly if Hilda handcuffs, which was what they'd called the law, were around, to go under the radar and still say what they'd like to say. And he said to me one day, "Oh, bona lallies, Tom", which means "great legs" in Polari. And I said, "You don't speak Polari." And he said, "Yes, yes. In fact, I wrote a thriller,
1:15:41 Speaker 01 and one of my characters only spoke Polari." And he said, "I grew up listening to Round the Horn, and Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddock used to speak Polari on that." And he said, "We'd listen every Sunday." And he said, "Then..." He said, "I believe that political acts are often felt about 10 years after the fact." And he said, "If you think about it, decriminalisation happened in 67." And he said, "The Romantic, the New Romantics, as a musical movement, happened in 77." And he said, "We were all congregating at a club called Blitz,
1:16:24 Speaker 01 where there was no gender, there was no orientation. And we called ourselves the New Romantics because we loved Byron and we loved Wild, and we loved those androgynous poets who occupied myriad spaces and identities." And I thought, "What a special man." And we had so many, so many conversations about...
1:16:59 Speaker 01 About his life and those revelations in his life as they happened and how they were always happening at the same time as the arts. And there was therefore a movement.
1:17:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:17:17 Speaker 01 Oh, I loved him.
1:17:18 Speaker 02 Oh, my goodness. You know, I could see that this "I'm a Celebrity" was truly, it was about community for you.
1:17:25 Speaker 01 It was about community.
1:17:27 Speaker 02 And it's interesting because we're watching you on challenges and eating wild things and having to put snakes in all things, all throughout your trousers.
1:17:36 Speaker 01 Yes, one got very friendly with my own snake.
1:17:39 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:17:39 Speaker 01 I think he sort of saw a fellow traveler up there. I thought, oh, there's something familiar up there. I'd like to know you.
1:17:47 Speaker 02 And he said, wow, look how big you are. I'm so s- no.
1:17:55 Speaker 01 You're sweet, darling. It's nothing to write home about. It's got the right amount of vascularity, I think.
1:18:01 Speaker 02 Right, that's the key, is vascularity.
1:18:02 Speaker 01 That's the key I like. I think that's probably why we find it attractive. Because it's sort of reminiscent of a member. I don't know.
1:18:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, but it's interesting. It's interesting.
1:18:11 Speaker 01 Interesting. Good thought.
1:18:13 Speaker 02 But we're watching. We're watching all of this. But for you, what's actually happening is community.
1:18:21 Speaker 01 Yes, absolutely.
1:18:23 Speaker 02 So the challenge where you were, I think this was your final challenge where you were eating a...
1:18:29 Speaker 01 Porcine vulva. Yes.
1:18:32 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:18:33 Speaker 01 Which is like a bacony radish. Actually, it's not bad. But the one that was hard, which was actually, because it was their Silver Jubilee, you know, when I went in.
1:18:44 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:18:45 Speaker 01 And therefore, there were a lot of virgin appearances of all sorts of things, I think, challenges and foods. And I got one of them, and it was camel's brain.
1:18:59 Speaker 02 Camel, yes.
1:19:00 Speaker 01 And...
1:19:04 Speaker 01 And I said to Ant and Dec, I think you must never do this again.
1:19:07 Speaker 02 Really?
1:19:07 Speaker 01 Because that was, that was like foie gras that had been left out in the sun for a year.
1:19:12 Speaker 02 Really?
1:19:13 Speaker 01 It was just, and it stuck to the roof of one's mouth.
1:19:16 Speaker 02 Did it?
1:19:17 Speaker 01 Oh, that was hard.
1:19:19 Speaker 02 Were you?
1:19:20 Speaker 01 Porsium vulva was a walk in the park.
1:19:21 Speaker 02 Was it?
1:19:22 Speaker 01 Compared to camel's brain.
1:19:23 Speaker 02 Really? Was it, because you're hungry, though, right? Somewhat.
1:19:29 Speaker 01 Yes, you're very hungry.
1:19:30 Speaker 02 So because you're very hungry, does it make the camel's brain, does it go down easier?
1:19:36 Speaker 01 I think, I think perhaps it made other things that might not go down as easily.
1:19:43 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:19:45 Speaker 01 Like, you know, a huntsman spider or a porsium vulva.
1:19:48 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:19:49 Speaker 01 Which I had incidentally in solid and liquid form.
1:19:52 Speaker 02 Oh, interesting. And you had the spider.
1:19:54 Speaker 01 Go down easier.
1:19:54 Speaker 02 Did you have the spider whole? Was it alive or no?
1:19:58 Speaker 01 No, it wasn't alive, but I did have it whole, I think.
1:20:01 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:20:02 Speaker 01 It was quite texturally arousing.
1:20:04 Speaker 02 Really?
1:20:04 Speaker 01 It was quite, you know, it was quite crunchy.
1:20:07 Speaker 02 Crunch, okay. You placed second.
1:20:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:20:12 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:20:12 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:20:12 Speaker 02 And what was interesting is, were you aware at all of what was happening outside of the jungle? Because there was a concerted campaign for you. I think Jack and Miranda, your brother and sister, were just phenomenal on that campaign.
1:20:31 Speaker 01 And they were so naughty, because I said to them before I went in, I left Jack in charge, my brother.
1:20:38 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:20:39 Speaker 01 Of my Instagram.
1:20:43 Speaker 01 And I said, don't do anything, you know, he's got a job, he's got a full-time job.
1:20:47 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:20:47 Speaker 01 And so did Miranda.
1:20:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:20:49 Speaker 01 And I said, don't do anything, except, you know, if ITV asks you to share something, you know, if you get those requested tag things.
1:20:59 Speaker 02 Yes, yes, to collaborate on a post.
1:21:01 Speaker 01 To collaborate, then do, but otherwise don't do anything. And then discovering, I mean, it had become a full-time job practically for them, in addition to their full-time jobs. I couldn't, I could not believe it. I couldn't believe it. And, and to answer your question, no, I, I had no idea. And also, the funny thing is,
1:21:29 Speaker 01 That when your, your, I at least was completely unaware of, of the cameras. I mean genuinely, completely unaware until I went to bed each day.
1:21:44 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:21:45 Speaker 01 And then when I went to bed, I thought, oh my God, I must have been like watching a car rust. And then it's only after the fact when you leave and you see montages and things that Ant and Dec play. And then, and then you, it brings back a flood of memories and you think, oh yes, I do remember that happening. Whereas the trials and the challenges, I remember almost frame by frame as they happen. Because there was so much adrenaline coursing through your veins.
1:22:14 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:22:15 Speaker 01 And that, you know, it heightened your recollection. But the days, they, they were one sort of long, um, sort of undulating channel. And it was very hard to kind of pick the floating bits of debris out of them. You, you just couldn't, couldn't recall.
1:22:37 Speaker 02 You could do it and, and had, and you had no awareness of the, I would say, the falling in love with you that the, that the nation was doing. You, you were utterly unaware.
1:22:53 Speaker 01 Oh, oblivious.
1:22:56 Speaker 02 You must have felt the love.
1:22:57 Speaker 01 Now, I, now I, I feel it. And it is quite humbling and staggering when you're first out and about after that experience. Because I think people invest in that experience so much emotionally, probably because everybody in it is so vulnerable and so naked and so exposed.
1:23:21 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:23:22 Speaker 01 And so then. When, when you meet people immediately afterwards, they, they are almost compelled to say, I, you know, I lived through that with you. Because, because they really did, you know, I mean, they really did. Because if you're in a cage with fifteen snakes and their hearts in their mouth, you know, it's the, the, the journey of watching that show, I suppose, is almost, almost as physically taxing in a much more condensed way.
1:23:53 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:23:54 Speaker 01 As going through it, which is why, which is why you get such physical reactions when people are asked about it, you know, they go, oh, I could never do that. Or, you know, oh, how did I do, how, how could you do that?
1:24:07 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:24:07 Speaker 01 And how could you face that? And so, um, I, I think that's why, I think that's why people get so very on board.
1:24:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, I, I think it was a, clearly it was a life-changing experience for you.
1:24:21 Speaker 01 It was life-changing.
1:24:23 Speaker 02 And you met some incredible friends.
1:24:26 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:24:26 Speaker 02 That you'll have for life.
1:24:27 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:24:28 Speaker 02 And on that note,
1:24:33 Speaker 02 I have a letter from one of them.
1:24:34 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:24:37 Speaker 02 If you can take a look at that and read that for us.
1:24:46 Speaker 01 Oh, my goodness. Look at this, it's like parchment.
1:24:53 Speaker 01 Oh. To my liege and servant, I blush to my very cuticles, I must tell you, I am with chalice.
1:25:05 Speaker 01 Unbeknownst to me, in the inky blank of, in the inky black of post crepuscular darkness, one of thine lordship's sperm hast invaded my corporeal womb twice, nay thrice. But it was definitely thine. Well, I did have contenders, that's for sure. I nursed this may come at a wrong time, but the cock has growled. Worry not, for I shall crouch and deliver in the thistles on my nose. I'll not bother ye but with a simple lawsuit.
1:25:43 Speaker 01 But do not blemish thy perfect visage with woe. Twill only be for a farthing and a small island balmy climbs, yours to the death, Queen Rubella, the lady in waiting with great expectation.
1:26:02 Speaker 02 That is perfect. That is perfect.
1:26:04 Speaker 01 Oh, she's so heavenly.
1:26:08 Speaker 01 Oh, I love, I love her so.
1:26:10 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:26:10 Speaker 01 I love her so. I've breakfasted Shay Ruby, you know.
1:26:14 Speaker 02 Oh, really?
1:26:15 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:26:16 Speaker 02 I tell you, I'm gonna, I'll give that back to you as well.
1:26:19 Speaker 01 Oh, yes, please. Darling.
1:26:20 Speaker 02 I'll give that back to you.
1:26:21 Speaker 01 What a treasure trove you've offered me.
1:26:24 Speaker 02 So.
1:26:26 Speaker 01 Oh, my, what a special thing.
1:26:29 Speaker 02 So that is the wonderful Ruby Wax.
1:26:32 Speaker 01 The wonderful, wonderful Ruby Wax.
1:26:34 Speaker 02 Yes, it seems like these experiences that you're having now, these opportunities.
1:26:40 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:26:42 Speaker 02 You are evolving as a human.
1:26:46 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:26:47 Speaker 02 These experiences are shaping you.
1:26:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:26:49 Speaker 02 And what you're doing is, is you're continuing to, to, to then give.
1:26:54 Speaker 01 I, I, actually, I remember when I, when I
1:27:00 Speaker 01 stopped doing theatre and, and my work more or less became telly. And I thought, oh, that's sort of
1:27:13 Speaker 01 sad in a way that I can't sort of tell stories anymore, you know. But then we, we do, don't we, you know, we, we do instinctively and intuitively, we tell stories all the time, no matter what the medium is.
1:27:31 Speaker 02 Yes, that's in essence what you have done for us today in this conversation. I, I say this with no joking whatsoever.
1:27:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:27:42 Speaker 02 But you already know this is my sons, they, I, I feel as if Kingston is very happy-go-lucky. He can be around anyone.
1:27:51 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:27:51 Speaker 02 He's fine.
1:27:52 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:27:52 Speaker 02 Liam is highly resistant to many people. But the moment that he met you, obviously, the moment that Kingston met you, is you, you changed their world. Changed their world. And there's so many things that I see.
1:28:11 Speaker 02 They have become because of you.
1:28:16 Speaker 02 Their stance on queerness comes from seeing, you know, they're Uncle Tom, you know?
1:28:30 Speaker 02 Their ability, their desire to step outside and see value in the arts, that comes from you. Like, that really doesn't come from me. That comes, that, that, it originate, the seed was planted from you, to the point where that's a career path that they both are heavily considering that comes from you.
1:28:53 Speaker 01 And I think they will. I think they will. Do you remember in Battersea Park when, again, in the name of showing off to the boys, I climbed to the top of the tree?
1:29:02 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:29:03 Speaker 01 I was like, I've got to impress them. That's the awful thing, and I always do this with children. I've got to impress them. What can I do? That I would never do.
1:29:10 Speaker 02 It is, I mean, I have so many phenomenal memories with you. Like, truly, I think, I think that is almost the underpinning of a great relationship is that there's an endless number of phenomenal memories. Because, you know, it was, it was through you also that you taught me the different accents around.
1:29:32 Speaker 01 Really?
1:29:33 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
1:29:33 Speaker 01 Oh, yes. Well, I love them. I mean, the thing is, etymologically,
1:29:39 Speaker 01 accent, and it really means a regional song.
1:29:42 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:29:43 Speaker 01 And I love that because when I hear an accent, I tune in to the melody really first. Even though there might be obvious differences in vowel sound or stress. It's the music that
1:30:00 Speaker 02 That comes from it.
1:30:01 Speaker 01 Really draws you into it, and I think that's why I find them so attractive.
1:30:05 Speaker 02 You know what we should do? We should do some, we've, I think, no, no, we have not done this, but, all right, I have a game.
1:30:12 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:30:12 Speaker 02 Let me know if you want to do this. All right. You deliver a regional accent.
1:30:18 Speaker 01 And you guess.
1:30:18 Speaker 02 And I guess it.
1:30:20 Speaker 01 Right. Okay.
1:30:23 Speaker 01 Let's see.
1:30:23 Speaker 02 Please, please, I've been talking so much about it. I know these accents.
1:30:28 Speaker 01 I'm gonna, and I'm, I'm gonna put a bit of regional lexicon in there as well.
1:30:33 Speaker 02 Okay, yeah, go deep on the region.
1:30:35 Speaker 01 Okay. Know that you're a Bre, lang mier lom riech.
1:30:41 Speaker 02 Oh, my God, we're north, we're way north.
1:30:44 Speaker 01 Well done.
1:30:45 Speaker 02 Yeah, we are, we are so north.
1:30:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:30:48 Speaker 02 Are we so north, we're in Scotland?
1:30:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:30:50 Speaker 02 Okay, we're in Scotland.
1:30:51 Speaker 01 Bravo!
1:30:52 Speaker 02 Thank you, thank you, thank you.
1:30:53 Speaker 01 And lom is chimney.
1:30:56 Speaker 02 Ah, okay.
1:30:57 Speaker 01 So it's like wishing somebody a really happy home and heart. Lang mier lom riech.
1:31:03 Speaker 02 Okay, there you go.
1:31:05 Speaker 01 Um, okay.
1:31:06 Speaker 02 All right, give me another one. All right, I'm one and O, one and O.
1:31:11 Speaker 01 You know what, I'm feeling musical. Let's bash out a song on the old Joanna.
1:31:17 Speaker 02 You are Essex slash East London.
1:31:20 Speaker 01 Yes, and Joanna is Cockney rhyming slang for?
1:31:25 Speaker 02 Piano. Oh, my God, look at me, look at me!
1:31:28 Speaker 01 Bravo!
1:31:28 Speaker 02 Thank you.
1:31:29 Speaker 01 Um, okay.
1:31:32 Speaker 01 I wish you and this podcast all the luck and success it deserves, my little akushla.
1:31:43 Speaker 02 Okay, I know we are in Ireland or Northern Ireland.
1:31:52 Speaker 01 Very good.
1:31:53 Speaker 02 So, so we're, we're in that territory. All right, look at that.
1:31:56 Speaker 01 It's Irish, and akushla is, you're my akushla. Akushla is from Irish Gaelic.
1:32:06 Speaker 02 Ah, okay.
1:32:07 Speaker 01 And akushla means pulse, and it's short for, um...
1:32:14 Speaker 01 Oh, pulse of my heart. And so it's a kushla is just, oh, pulse. And it's the notion that somebody is so vital to your very being that they're like your pulse.
1:32:29 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:32:30 Speaker 01 Isn't that beautiful?
1:32:31 Speaker 02 It is beautiful.
1:32:32 Speaker 01 I mean, it supersedes beloved, doesn't it? It's just like, it's heavenly.
1:32:37 Speaker 02 It is. And this is why I love etymology.
1:32:41 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:32:41 Speaker 02 Right, because then I think what you end up doing is your vocabulary changes once you understand the origin.
1:32:48 Speaker 01 You see it through that prism.
1:32:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:32:50 Speaker 01 Is absolutely true.
1:32:51 Speaker 02 I've never heard you actually do mine before.
1:32:58 Speaker 02 Which I'm scared to hear.
1:33:00 Speaker 01 Well, there's one, there's one example, which is when I suddenly realized. But normally I wouldn't dare do yours, but I have to do yours when I tell this story because, because I, because I suddenly see myself through your eyes because it was so awful.
1:33:19 Speaker 02 Oh, my goodness.
1:33:19 Speaker 01 What I did to you.
1:33:20 Speaker 02 I think I know what it is.
1:33:22 Speaker 01 You know what's coming, don't you?
1:33:23 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:33:24 Speaker 01 So one day you and I were out and about in Brixton, I think, or perhaps somewhere in South London. And you had a lash on your cheek. And I pulled it off. And I said, and I held it out before your eyes. And you said, because you're so polite, you wouldn't say, why are you fingering my face and pulling off my hair? You went, oh, wow, tea. Oh, wow, look at that. Whoa, tea.
1:34:09 Speaker 01 And I was like, and then I said, well, blow. And you looked even more regast. And you're like, wow, what? Like, oh.
1:34:24 Speaker 01 And at that juncture, I realized that people in Washington don't pull off people's eyelashes and tell them to make a wish.
1:34:33 Speaker 02 No, no, I don't think that's a, a US thing.
1:34:37 Speaker 01 No.
1:34:38 Speaker 02 No, I don't think so.
1:34:39 Speaker 01 No, I don't think so now.
1:34:40 Speaker 02 No, no, but that's a, is that a, that's a full British situation.
1:34:45 Speaker 01 I think so.
1:34:46 Speaker 02 Interesting.
1:34:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's very lucky. But you did blow it off and make a wish, didn't you?
1:34:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think I did, I think I did. You, you know what? I, I think you got me, though.
1:34:56 Speaker 01 Really?
1:34:57 Speaker 02 Those are my preferred choices, or should I say, selection of words. Wow.
1:35:08 Speaker 02 When Kingston or Liam impersonate me, that's exactly what they do.
1:35:12 Speaker 01 Oh, the other one that you love, which I love that you love, is, um,
1:35:18 Speaker 01 that's wild. That's wild.
1:35:24 Speaker 02 Yes, that's wild.
1:35:27 Speaker 01 Oh, that's wild, T.
1:35:28 Speaker 02 Uh, T, that is wild.
1:35:30 Speaker 01 I didn't think I can do, I didn't think I can do you very well.
1:35:32 Speaker 02 No, you, you did it perfectly. You, you know, you have, I don't have that ability. I think there's a separate muscle to impersonate.
1:35:44 Speaker 01 Can't you?
1:35:45 Speaker 02 No.
1:35:46 Speaker 01 You can't do me, then.
1:35:47 Speaker 02 I, I wish I could.
1:35:49 Speaker 01 No.
1:35:49 Speaker 02 Do, do you know how much money I can make if I could do you? If I could impersonate you, do you know, do you know what I would be doing right now? I would be touring.
1:35:58 Speaker 01 That would be quite an OnlyFans if you could do me.
1:36:03 Speaker 02 Tom Reed Wilson, I adore you.
1:36:09 Speaker 01 I love you so.
1:36:10 Speaker 02 I, you are truly, you are one of the most kind, beautiful, majestic, wise, witty, fun.
1:36:22 Speaker 01 You're gonna go until I, until I say, "You can't, darling, you can't."
1:36:26 Speaker 02 You have to say, you, truly, truly, one of the...
1:36:33 Speaker 02 You are also one of the most influential people in my life. And I am so thankful to have met you. I am so blessed to have you in my life. It is a privilege to have you in the life of my family. I am going to be one of your biggest protectors from, you know, throughout eternity. Even when I pass away, I'm still going to be out here protecting you. I think you were placed here on this earth to make us all reflect, to make us all better human beings.
1:37:18 Speaker 02 And it is a blessing to actually know an angel. So, thank you, just thank you, and I love you. And beyond this conversation, I'm just, I'm truly, truly blessed to have you in my life. So, thank you.
1:37:33 Speaker 01 Well, I feel, I feel the very same. And I knew, isn't that, isn't that amazing? I knew the second we met. I mean, neither of us really believe in love at first sight, but in a funny old way, we did have it because I knew there's something.
1:37:54 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:37:55 Speaker 01 There's something here that if I'm given permission, I will.
1:37:59 Speaker 02 Pursue.
1:38:00 Speaker 01 Leave to me forever.
1:38:03 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:38:04 Speaker 01 Forever.
1:38:05 Speaker 02 Yes, isn't that something? Isn't that something? Look at that.
1:38:08 Speaker 01 I do love you.
1:38:09 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, I love you too, but you're doing my eulogy, remember that.
1:38:12 Speaker 01 Yes, I am. But it's whoever, it's awfully macabre, isn't it?
1:38:21 Speaker 02 It is.
1:38:22 Speaker 01 But it's.
1:38:23 Speaker 02 It's a perfect way to end.
1:38:24 Speaker 01 Whoever gets to the grave first.
1:38:25 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:38:26 Speaker 01 Will do the other's eulogy. My money is on me getting to the grave first.
1:38:30 Speaker 02 No, no, no, hands, it's not happening.
1:38:32 Speaker 01 But this is very, this is very macabre. We shouldn't have finished on this.
1:38:34 Speaker 02 No, that's the perfect way to finish.
1:38:39 Speaker 01 Clog popping.
1:38:41 Speaker 02 No, I'm dying first.
1:38:46 Speaker 02 Tom Reed Wilson, my buddy. Yeah, I mean, there's so many things. One is, I think probably the most important, is how Tom holds space for everyone in his life. We saw it on I'm a Celebrity. You see it on Celebs Go Dating. You see it in every interaction, every television show that he does. He's a master at it, but it's something that he doesn't practice or rehearse or preach, he just does. And I think that's something we can all take from him and from his story. He mentioned, he said, you know, we both don't believe in love at first sight. And I agree, I always say I don't believe in love at first sight, but actually, the first moment that I saw Tom,
1:39:30 Speaker 02 we became intertwined indefinitely. It helped me redefine love at first sight in platonic relationships. You know, Tom is the person who taught me how to hug someone. Before I met Tom, I was what I call the standard hugger. I would hug briefly and then tap, tap, tap. He taught me, no, you give it time. And my hugs with him are a minimum of 30 seconds. Minimum. When you hug someone for that long, you can actually feel a difference.
1:40:13 Speaker 02 You can feel cortisol levels dropping. You know, you could feel the connection with the person. He taught me how to hug, yeah.
1:40:22 Speaker 04 This is an exclusive, not told anybody this. The story is the same thing I've been telling for years. It's just like the cameras are now in focus and people are actually hearing it differently. I just think about little Kara, it upsets me now.
1:40:36 Speaker 02 Can you believe that we're doing this again?
1:40:39 Speaker 04 He just bloody loves me, pal.
1:40:41 Speaker 02 Here he comes, he's coming in. As a good interviewer, I have to ask you this.
1:40:45 Speaker 04 I don't want to be associated with it. When we're together, it's amazing. We are very different people.
1:40:50 Speaker 02 Do you believe you two will get married?
1:40:55 Speaker 05 Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
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