Pod Insights Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast Would You Watch YouTube at 4x Speed? About this episode This week, Marques and Andrew kicked things off by trying to explain to David the absurdity of the Luka Doncic trade in tech terms that he would understand. After that, it was all about the Pixel 4a battery update issue. Then they discuss a new app that Apple just dropped and a new app that Adam is really excited about. They wrap it all up talking about Meta trying to make the Metaverse happen, YouTube experimenting with 4x speed, and Andrew ranting about streaming services. There was a surprising amount of news to go over despite not having any new gadgets to discuss. Enjoy!
Links:
9to5Google - Pixel 4a Battery Update
Verge - New YouTube 4x speed feature
Apple Invites app
Partiful app
Business Insider - Meta article
Tapestry app
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Transcript 14,613 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.
0:38 Speaker 01 Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.
1:23 Speaker 01 That's J-I-R-A dot com.
1:25 David Imel? Bye, bye, partyful. Hello, Apple invites. All right, I'll.
1:31 Andrew Manganelli? Wait, Apple rhymes with partyful. You could have just.
1:34 David Imel? Not really. Apple.
1:35 Andrew Manganelli? Bye, bye, partyful. Hello, Apple. That rhymes way more than what you said.
1:41 David Imel? It's missing a syllable.
1:42 Andrew Manganelli? Partyful. It's missing a syllable, but it rhymes.
1:50 Speaker 01 All right, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.
1:56 Andrew Manganelli? I'm Andrew.
1:56 David Imel? And I'm David.
1:57 Speaker 01 And this week, we've got a new Apple app that actually looks pretty solid. We're going to talk about why Meta is considering 2025 a make or break year, for some reason. Pixel 4A update, that's. Doing way too much for some reason as well. And also.
2:14 Andrew Manganelli? What is going on in the episode?
2:16 Speaker 01 And we've got a new app in the timeline app category Adam is excited about. And then we'll end with a rant. We'll end with a rant from Andrew. But first, the biggest news of the week, the NBA trade deadline is coming up.
2:28 Andrew Manganelli? Sometimes news transcends, you know, the niche that we're in.
2:32 Speaker 01 It really does.
2:33 Andrew Manganelli? And I think we need to talk about Luka Doncic getting traded.
2:36 Speaker 01 Absolutely. Unforeseen. I know David, you, you probably saw this news and were immediately like, whoa.
2:42 Andrew Manganelli? Okay.
2:43 Speaker 01 Huge trade.
2:43 Andrew Manganelli? Crazy. The only thing that I know about this is that they posted it on the verge. Which makes no sense to me.
2:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, actually.
2:51 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
2:52 Speaker 01 That's hilarious.
2:52 Andrew Manganelli? But I didn't look into it.
2:54 Speaker 01 Perfect. I figured we would explain it to you in other terms.
2:59 Andrew Manganelli? In tech terms.
3:00 Speaker 01 In like tech terms. And then hopefully you will understand better how shocked you all were. Cause I remember, I remember where I was when I found out.
3:09 Andrew Manganelli? I think I remember, I read it on the our hockey subreddit. Like I was just on my phone and it was like, how would you describe the Luka Doncic trade in terms of hockey players? And I was like, wait, Luka got traded?
3:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:23 Andrew Manganelli? I know him as, he's a really good Overwatch player.
3:27 Speaker 01 This traded just means that, that like they offered him more money, so he went to a different team.
3:31 Andrew Manganelli? No, no.
3:31 Speaker 01 No, so.
3:32 Andrew Manganelli? Signing.
3:32 Speaker 01 So there are contracts and, and company owners. So here's the actual, uh, let me find the actual trade just so I can make.
3:39 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah. While you find that, it seems like every niche of the internet is doing like a, how do I explain the Luka trade in X?
3:46 Speaker 01 So it's that big of a deal?
3:47 Andrew Manganelli? It's a huge deal. Yeah. So we're going to try and do it in tech terms.
3:51 Speaker 01 Just one guy though, right?
3:53 Andrew Manganelli? There's a couple of other things, but the, the main meat and potatoes of the deal is like one player for one player. And we're going to talk about.
4:00 Speaker 01 That's what they usually do.
4:02 Andrew Manganelli? There's, there's all sorts of.
4:04 Speaker 01 I feel bad for the other guy because they're only talking about the Luka guy.
4:08 David Imel? Does nobody care about the other guy?
4:11 Andrew Manganelli? Well, we'll, we'll explain to you about the other. His name's Anthony Davis.
4:15 David Imel? That's the first time I've heard of that.
4:16 Andrew Manganelli? He's like-
4:17 David Imel? Sorry, Anthony.
4:18 Andrew Manganelli? An amazing basketball player.
4:20 Speaker 01 He is. He played in the Olympics for Team USA this year.
4:23 David Imel? Did they win?
4:23 Speaker 01 Totally dominant.
4:24 Andrew Manganelli? Dominated, yeah.
4:25 David Imel? That's cool.
4:26 Andrew Manganelli? Great basketball player.
4:27 David Imel? Okay.
4:27 Speaker 01 So just-
4:28 Andrew Manganelli? The thing is-
4:28 David Imel? Alright.
4:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, the thing is-
4:29 David Imel? Give me the-
4:30 Speaker 01 Top level, like, face of the franchise players typically do not get traded.
4:36 David Imel? Doesn't LeBron move around, like, all the time?
4:38 Speaker 01 LeBron moves around on his own accord.
4:40 Andrew Manganelli? He chooses to.
4:40 Speaker 01 He doesn't get traded. So he'll decide to sign a contract with the Lakers.
4:45 David Imel? Okay.
4:45 Speaker 01 And then now the Lakers own his contract.
4:47 David Imel? Okay.
4:48 Andrew Manganelli? This might be a good point. The difference between, like, trading and signing as a free agent. So like, your contract-
4:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:54 Andrew Manganelli? Goes X amount of years, and if it's within that X amount of years, you go to another team, it means teams agreed on a trade.
5:01 David Imel? And you have to move?
5:02 Andrew Manganelli? Yes.
5:03 Speaker 01 So your contract can be traded.
5:05 David Imel? Wow.
5:06 Andrew Manganelli? But if you wait till the end of that contract and you go to free agency, then you get to choose if a team offers you money, where you go. So this is a trade. Luka, did Luka know about this? He didn't-
5:18 Speaker 01 So nobody knew about this. So that's what, so what I'm saying is, like, franchise players, like, some of the biggest names in the NBA, you think, like, Steph Curry. Like, when you think of Steph Curry, you think of the Warriors. The Warriors will not trade Steph Curry. All of the fans would be mad.
5:32 David Imel? Yeah.
5:33 Speaker 01 All of the teammates would be mad.
5:34 David Imel? Yeah.
5:35 Speaker 01 Wherever he goes, they won't, like, the fans, it would just be weird.
5:37 David Imel? Yeah.
5:37 Speaker 01 It just wouldn't work.
5:38 David Imel? Right.
5:39 Speaker 01 What's another NBA player you know? Just like, a big name. Kevin Durant, have you heard of him?
5:44 David Imel? A little-
5:45 Speaker 01 Giannis?
5:46 David Imel? No.
5:46 Andrew Manganelli? What about, um- Joel Embiid?
5:48 David Imel? Ya- Yao Ming?
5:49 Speaker 01 Yao Ming, okay. So, he was on the Rockets.
5:54 David Imel? Okay.
5:54 Speaker 01 And, he wasn't, eh, you know, he was a franchise, sure, franchise player, let's say, let's go with that.
5:59 David Imel? Okay.
6:00 Speaker 01 The Rockets-
6:00 David Imel? Yeah.
6:01 Speaker 01 Fans love this guy. They wouldn't trade him, even if you offered another great player. Sometimes they'll offer two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight players, future draft picks, a whole bunch of other assets, and they still won't trade this guy.
6:13 David Imel? Okay, yeah.
6:13 Speaker 01 Luka's that guy, for the Dallas Mavericks.
6:16 David Imel? Okay.
6:16 Speaker 01 So he's, he's like Steph Curry. Yes.
6:20 Andrew Manganelli? Let's, let's do the, the tech version of this. I think Mark has brought up yes, yes, no earlier, which is an old segment from Reply All. We're gonna describe- This to you in tech terms and then we'll see if you you can explain the severity of the trade afterwards.
6:36 David Imel? Okay.
6:36 Andrew Manganelli? And see.
6:37 David Imel? Okay.
6:37 Andrew Manganelli? What that means. Can I go first? I have a pretty simple one.
6:41 David Imel? Okay, so the trade is Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis. There are a couple of other small assets involved.
6:48 Andrew Manganelli? For Anthony Davis and a first round pick. Because that is part of it. There was a couple of other players. So, and I think what's important here is who initiated the trade. It was the team that Luke is on, the Mavericks.
6:58 David Imel? They want to get rid of him?
7:00 Andrew Manganelli? Well. They did get rid of him.
7:01 David Imel? Well, yeah.
7:01 Andrew Manganelli? That was everyone's reaction. So what would your reaction be is if I have an S24 Ultra?
7:07 David Imel? Okay.
7:08 Andrew Manganelli? And you have an S20 FE and Galaxy Buds and I said, from the same year.
7:15 David Imel? So you're comparing Anthony, whatever his name is.
7:17 Andrew Manganelli? Anthony Davis to an S20 FE, S20 plus?
7:21 David Imel? Yeah.
7:23 Andrew Manganelli? It's not bad. And I come to you and I say, I want your S20 FE and Galaxy Buds. I will give you an S24 Ultra.
7:33 David Imel? Oh. What would be my reaction?
7:36 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
7:37 David Imel? No.
7:38 Andrew Manganelli? Really?
7:39 David Imel? Wait. Oh, yes. Sorry. I was thinking the other way around.
7:42 Andrew Manganelli? So like in my eyes, it's.
7:44 David Imel? Cause the Galaxy Buds are not that expensive.
7:46 Andrew Manganelli? They're not that expensive. They're fine. It's a nice thing to have. The S20 FE or I could even go S21 plus maybe, maybe S21 plus and but like a phone that works totally fine for you.
7:57 David Imel? Yeah, but S24 Ultra is like.
7:59 Andrew Manganelli? Exact.
8:00 David Imel? Much better.
8:00 Andrew Manganelli? It's good. You know, we're getting to this point of security updates are seven years for Samsung phones now, right? So like you're kind of as taking the old phone.
8:08 David Imel? Is the security updates like the contract, you know, seven years?
8:11 Andrew Manganelli? It's, I'm thinking of as age, because Luca's 25, Anthony Davis is 31 or something. 25 years old? Yeah. So like, I'm giving you.
8:21 David Imel? I'm turning to death.
8:22 Andrew Manganelli? Something that's, you know, it's going to lose security updates in like three years, but it's still a good phone right now. But you're giving me a phone that's better and also is going to get security updates for six more years than.
8:36 David Imel? Oh, you're talking, no, I would get that.
8:37 Andrew Manganelli? Sorry, you would get that. Yeah.
8:38 David Imel? I would get that. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
8:40 Andrew Manganelli? Okay.
8:41 David Imel? Cause he's 25.
8:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:43 David Imel? So he's, unless he like breaks his leg.
8:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's got a bright future ahead of him. I have another version of this.
8:48 David Imel? Okay.
8:49 Speaker 01 I see that you have an M4 MacBook Pro. I would like to trade you my Intel i9 MacBook Pro and AirPods. What do you think?
9:00 David Imel? No.
9:01 Speaker 01 Come on.
9:01 Speaker 04 Why would I ever do that?
9:02 Speaker 01 It's pretty good.
9:03 Andrew Manganelli? Although this trade would be not.
9:06 David Imel? The i9 is famously a not good MacBook.
9:09 Speaker 01 The i9 is Anthony Davis. It's fine.
9:12 Andrew Manganelli? It's great.
9:13 Speaker 01 It's pretty good.
9:14 David Imel? It's overpowering, you gotta cool him down.
9:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, it sometimes isn't the healthiest.
9:18 David Imel? Yeah, and the battery's gonna run out at some point.
9:20 Speaker 01 Probably got a lower.
9:22 David Imel? If you put it in the freezer, it works better, yeah.
9:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:24 Andrew Manganelli? And when you, when you first got it, it was like.
9:27 David Imel? The best thing ever.
9:27 Andrew Manganelli? The best, yeah.
9:28 Speaker 04 Okay, I got one for you.
9:30 David Imel? Okay.
9:30 Speaker 04 The Fuji X106.
9:33 David Imel? Okay.
9:33 Speaker 04 For the Sony A6500, plus a memory card.
9:38 David Imel? Well, the A6500 at least is, it has interchangeable lenses.
9:42 Speaker 04 It does.
9:43 David Imel? But no.
9:46 Andrew Manganelli? It's a good camera.
9:47 David Imel? Plus a memory card?
9:48 Speaker 04 Plus a memory card.
9:49 David Imel? Do I get to have a memory card in my own camera?
9:51 Speaker 04 No.
9:51 Andrew Manganelli? You have to buy it.
9:52 David Imel? Well, then it won't work.
9:52 Andrew Manganelli? You have to buy your own.
9:53 Speaker 04 You have to buy your own, yeah, yeah.
9:54 David Imel? Oh, yeah, no. Wait, so why did they trade this guy?
9:58 Speaker 01 The, okay, the word on the street, I mean, because nobody saw this trade coming, this was a very, you know, trades that are this big typically leak a little bit, like people start talking about, oh, this guy is not happy with the team he's on, maybe he'll get moved. Nobody saw this coming. The players didn't see this coming. The coaches didn't see this coming. The owners didn't really know about it.
10:18 David Imel? Wait, so.
10:18 Speaker 01 The GMs made the trade.
10:19 David Imel? Who, what's a GM?
10:20 Speaker 01 A general manager.
10:21 David Imel? Grandmaster?
10:21 Speaker 01 General manager of the teams.
10:24 David Imel? General manager.
10:25 Speaker 01 Essentially, they run the team and the organization.
10:28 David Imel? Okay.
10:28 Speaker 01 And they quietly, these two organizations had conversations with each other, and no other team made the trade, and that was it. And typically, a big player like this, you shop him around. Like, okay, this is a-
10:41 David Imel? Do what you can get.
10:42 Speaker 01 Everyone wants Luka.
10:43 David Imel? Right.
10:44 Speaker 01 Everyone would take Luka.
10:45 David Imel? Is he the best player in the NBA?
10:46 Speaker 01 He's one of the top five best players in the NBA.
10:49 David Imel? And he's 25?
10:50 Speaker 01 He's 25.
10:50 David Imel? Wow.
10:51 Speaker 01 And if any other GM had known that he was available, they would have offered everything to get him.
10:57 David Imel? So is this like a backdoor deal?
10:58 Speaker 01 It seems like the only rumor is, you know, he was scheduled to get a $350 million super max for his next contract, and he's sometimes a little bit out of shape in the offseason.
11:13 Andrew Manganelli? Which I, I understand because he is top 500 ranked in Overwatch 2. He is nasty at Overwatch 2.
11:19 David Imel? Wait, really?
11:19 Andrew Manganelli? And Overwatch.
11:20 David Imel? Wait, he's top 500? How does this man have time for both these things?
11:24 Speaker 04 How are you elite at two different things?
11:26 Andrew Manganelli? There's a lot of athletes who are really good at video games sometimes.
11:30 David Imel? That makes sense.
11:31 Andrew Manganelli? There was a hockey player who got traded because they said he played too much Fortnite. But he's like one of the best in the league.
11:37 Speaker 01 My argument would be, Luka could show up with a pack of cigarettes in his mouth. And I would still take him because he's so good at basketball.
11:45 David Imel? So my question is, why didn't they shop him around?
11:49 Speaker 01 That is everyone's question. No one knows the answer.
11:53 David Imel? That seems sketchy.
11:54 Speaker 01 Yeah. Um, yeah, just one of those weird things that happens at the NBA trade deadline and, you know? More weird trades have happened. It's just, it's just one of those weird news headlines.
12:04 David Imel? Even if he got $350 million, do you think he could have gotten more?
12:07 Speaker 01 So that's the super max that you're eligible for when you play with a certain team for a bunch of years in a row? So he's been on Mavericks his entire career and-
12:15 David Imel? How long has his entire career?
12:17 Speaker 01 Five years so far. And he would have been eligible for-
12:19 David Imel? He started at 20 years old in the NBA?
12:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, and a top draft pick and would have been eligible for a, the most expensive contract in NBA history. Which, honestly, you pay the man. He's worth it. Uh, but for some reason, they didn't feel like paying him.
12:34 David Imel? Wow.
12:35 Andrew Manganelli? I'll throw one more tidbit out there. The Mavericks just announced that they're refunding season ticket holders who are mad enough about-
12:43 David Imel? Holy crap dude.
12:45 Andrew Manganelli? There were like, people with signs outside of the stadium.
12:48 David Imel? No way, really? Wow.
12:51 Speaker 01 Look, there's a reason the Lakers said yes.
12:55 David Imel? Well, they got traded to Lakers.
12:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, so the Lakers got Luca and, look, if you're the Lakers and you have Anthony Davis and somebody calls and goes, "Hi, we'd like Anthony Davis," you're like, "No." And they're like, "We'll give you Luca." Like, "He'll be on your front step tomorrow." Yes, of course.
13:10 Andrew Manganelli? I'll personally drive him.
13:12 David Imel? Do the Lakers still have LeBron?
13:13 Speaker 01 Yes.
13:14 David Imel? Yes.
13:15 Speaker 01 And, so you know who LeBron is, that's important. I think everyone knows LeBron and LeBron's one of the faces of the league and he's 40 and he's been one of the legends of the game forever. He's probably got one, two, three more years left and the Lakers looking forward to their future, we're like, "When this guy's gone, who do we have?"
13:33 David Imel? Yeah.
13:34 Speaker 01 Nothing.
13:34 David Imel? And the Lakers have always been a very famous team.
13:36 Speaker 01 They've always had some franchise face.
13:39 David Imel? Right.
13:40 Speaker 01 Whether it's Kareem or Kobe or Shaq, like, they just, now it's LeBron and who are they gonna have? Luca.
13:46 Andrew Manganelli? This is like the Lakers looking forward and being like, "Who can we have?" And then someone knocks on their front door and hands them a briefcase full of money. Like, they didn't even go out looking yet.
13:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:57 Andrew Manganelli? And it just came to them.
13:59 Speaker 01 So now, just to, just to test your understanding, just to make sure you understand the trade.
14:03 David Imel? Okay.
14:03 Speaker 01 Can you explain the Luca AD trade in Pokemon Trading Cards?
14:09 David Imel? Do I have to explain how the game works?
14:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just have to, just like, card for card.
14:13 David Imel? It's like trading Golem, who's very good, for, who else is like, pretty good?
14:20 Andrew Manganelli? I feel like it's almost like trading, if we're talking just about like, strength and battling, like, Golem's, I would say like Charizard EX because Charizard's the big flash, flashy, like, bright card that everyone wants, but in terms of battling, it's not really that good.
14:35 David Imel? Right.
14:35 Andrew Manganelli? You have to evolve so much.
14:36 David Imel? That's a great card.
14:37 Andrew Manganelli? First level Charmander's not that good.
14:38 David Imel? You have to evolve Golem a lot too.
14:39 Andrew Manganelli? You do, but it's so much easier to-
14:40 David Imel? And Geodude and Graveller are not very good cards.
14:42 Andrew Manganelli? The, the new Graveller's not too bad.
14:44 David Imel? Maybe this was the best.
14:45 Speaker 01 Graveller has 40 damage.
14:46 Andrew Manganelli? This one way down the road.
14:47 Speaker 01 They have so much health though and you just played drug it off first.
14:50 David Imel? I mean, it's 100 health, it's not like a ton, you know? But, anyway.
14:57 Andrew Manganelli? I think that's a solid.
14:58 David Imel? I think that's pretty good. Okay, yeah, we'll say that.
15:01 Andrew Manganelli? Well, and just real quick, any, any, well, okay. Done with NBA. If you want to come back to the tech podcast, we're here.
15:09 David Imel? We're back.
15:10 Andrew Manganelli? Did you pull anything good in the new packs?
15:12 David Imel? Yeah, actually.
15:13 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, did you?
15:14 David Imel? Yeah, so I did one of the, I saved up a bunch of hour glasses and did one of the 10 cuts at once, which was a bad decision. Don't do that.
15:22 Andrew Manganelli? I remember that one.
15:22 David Imel? Delayed gratification, my friends, is worth it always. They have this option where you can just open 10 packs at the same time and it's just like super fast and it's lame.
15:32 Andrew Manganelli? So I completely disagree.
15:34 David Imel? Wow.
15:35 Andrew Manganelli? That is how I play basically every game. I just hoard all of my gold until I can buy everything.
15:42 David Imel? That's like so not fun, though. The progression isn't there.
15:46 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, exactly.
15:46 David Imel? It's like hard, hard, hard, hard, hard. Now you're super overpowered.
15:48 Andrew Manganelli? And then I'm awesome.
15:49 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, man.
15:51 Andrew Manganelli? Like doing all the side quests before you go after the first boss and then just one-shot them.
15:54 David Imel? Yeah. I don't know. I've gotten a lot of cool cards, yeah.
15:58 Andrew Manganelli? I don't know this one as well. I think I got one good, like, um, what's, like immersive dragon type guy or like
16:08 David Imel? I didn't get an immersive dragon.
16:08 Andrew Manganelli? Bronosaurus kind of guy. But then I also got one, like, that looks like a lawnmower and I just don't know what Pokemon's doing anymore.
16:15 David Imel? In the fourth generation, there's this Rotom Pokemon. It's an electric ghost Pokemon and he goes inside household appliances. All the Rotom cards are bad, but they're cute and fun. So I think that's the point of them.
16:27 Andrew Manganelli? Same.
16:30 Speaker 01 I'm just gonna cut this off. Right here.
16:34 Andrew Manganelli? Thank you.
16:34 Speaker 01 Anyway, so yeah, Luca and AD got traded. A whole bunch more trades are happening. NBA deadline. All sorts of fun stories there. Anyway, this is a tech podcast, allegedly.
16:42 David Imel? Allegedly.
16:43 Speaker 01 There is an interesting tech story that I didn't find out about until today. That is
16:46 David Imel? Yeah.
16:47 Speaker 01 uh, plaguing Pixel 4A. I don't know if you guys have heard of this.
16:51 David Imel? You know who you are.
16:52 Speaker 01 So Pixel 4A, a couple of years old, but apparently Google has started pushing a software update to it that has dramatically lowered the battery capacity
17:02 David Imel? Yeah.
17:02 Speaker 01 by up to 40%.
17:04 David Imel? Yeah.
17:05 Speaker 01 Now, reading this headline seems kind of insane, like, why would that happen?
17:11 David Imel? Yeah.
17:12 Speaker 01 And so if you go back, it seems to read that there was some sort of battery issue starting to pop up with old Pixel 4As. And probably enough of them started to pop up that Google saw a trend slash pattern and just to be safe, decided to just nip it in the bud and dramatically lower the charging capacity for Pixel 4As for everyone who owns them.
17:32 David Imel? Yeah.
17:33 Speaker 01 Which is a bummer if you own one, because now your phone has a little over half the battery it just did the day before that update got pushed.
17:39 David Imel? Yeah.
17:40 Speaker 01 But at least it won't explode now.
17:42 David Imel? Yeah, Google has been very vague about why they're pushing this update, but they said it was apparently related to battery concerns. But every single thing that they did indicates that these batteries were probably going to blow up.
17:55 Speaker 01 It'd just be a safety concern. You just don't want a safety concern.
17:57 David Imel? Yeah, they noted it as a emergency maintenance release and they cut the voltage of the battery from 4.45 volts to 3.95 volts, which doesn't sound like a lot, but that cuts the usable charge down by about 44%, according to testing from Android Authority, so.
18:13 Andrew Manganelli? Has anyone checked on the 5, I mean, the 4A 5G? Didn't it also come out at the same time?
18:20 David Imel? Yeah, but it might have just been that specific battery cell. They are also offering free battery replacements, Google Store credits, and a cash payment of $50. So it seems like they're really trying to motivate people to get, like, swap out their battery.
18:35 Speaker 01 Do we have a 4A?
18:36 David Imel? Probably.
18:37 Andrew Manganelli? I don't think so.
18:38 David Imel? I thought we had every Pixel.
18:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, we do.
18:40 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, we might?
18:41 Speaker 01 I'm gonna go check and see if our 4A is doing anything weird.
18:43 David Imel? I loved the 4A. It was such a good phone. It was $350.
18:47 Andrew Manganelli? Do I have to look? I think it's on top of the cabinet or the bottom.
18:50 Speaker 01 I'll check after the pod. I'll check after. And if there is anything weird about it, I will insert a clip.
18:55 Andrew Manganelli? It's definitely not on fire.
18:58 Andrew Manganelli? Well, unless it happened in, like, the last 30 minutes, but.
19:00 David Imel? Some other crazy things about this, this update also gets rid of the adaptive charging feature if you didn't have it on before. And if you, you know, the battery indicator in the status bar? You can either just have the picture of the battery draining or the actual number. If you didn't have the number on before, it gets rid of the option to even have the number on. Which is crazy, which is just, yeah, it seems like Google is very afraid of these phones.
19:25 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
19:26 Speaker 01 If you have a Pixel 4A, let us know if you got this update, or if you've noticed anything weird about your phone.
19:32 David Imel? Yeah.
19:32 Speaker 01 And I'm curious to see what we see.
19:34 Andrew Manganelli? Honestly, I know they're like, it's cool that they're doing a battery replacement. At this point, for whoever's still using one, if there's like, if you can prove it, they should just give you the latest A, A model.
19:46 David Imel? Yeah.
19:46 Andrew Manganelli? Like, this is probably not that, that many people, like, a couple thousand maybe, just give them the update.
19:54 David Imel? I don't know. That was a very popular phone.
19:56 Andrew Manganelli? It was a popular phone. We're what?
19:58 David Imel? Forty million. Five.
20:00 Andrew Manganelli? Five generations past it, and it's already the like, more middle range ones, so maybe not. I'm sure there's plenty, but I think like, at this point, if you're giving fifty dollars credit and batteries, I think you should just give them a free upgrade.
20:13 David Imel? Yeah, that's true. So, yeah, if you're out there, be careful.
20:19 Andrew Manganelli? Stay safe out there, friends.
20:20 Speaker 01 Don't put your Pixel 4A in your pocket.
20:23 Andrew Manganelli? Don't go to sleep if your Pixel 4A is plugged in.
20:26 David Imel? Yeah. Uh, next is something that's very dear to mine and Adam's hearts.
20:30 Andrew Manganelli? Very much so. You wanna talk about it, David?
20:32 Speaker 01 You psychos.
20:34 David Imel? We are certified speed consumers.
20:37 Speaker 01 Absolute animals.
20:39 David Imel? Yeah, so Adam and I famously consume content at 2X speed.
20:43 Andrew Manganelli? Famously?
20:43 David Imel? Yeah.
20:44 Andrew Manganelli? Okay, nice.
20:46 Speaker 01 Maybe infamous.
20:48 David Imel? Depending on who you ask.
20:49 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
20:50 David Imel? YouTube Premium is testing a bunch of new experimental features, which-
20:53 Andrew Manganelli? Not on my account.
20:55 David Imel? Wow. Do you have Premium?
20:56 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, and I wish I had this feature. I didn't get it. I've been checking, refreshing every day.
21:00 David Imel? Wait, you're right. I have a CD, oh, no, it's a Labs feature, you have to turn it on.
21:04 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, okay.
21:05 David Imel? Which I did not do.
21:05 Speaker 01 Oh, it's a feature.
21:06 David Imel? So, okay, there are many features, there are many features. One of them is that you can now watch videos in up to 4X speed.
21:13 Speaker 01 Jesus Christ.
21:15 Speaker 01 What are you guys doing?
21:16 Andrew Manganelli? What is happening?
21:17 David Imel? On iOS and Android.
21:18 Speaker 01 4X speed?
21:19 David Imel? That is a little, I've been trying to train myself for 3X, like, it's, I've been working on it. 2.5 I can still do. 3X, 3X, you know how your brain takes in information and processes it, right?
21:31 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
21:32 David Imel? Yeah?
21:32 Andrew Manganelli? You know how it does that.
21:34 Speaker 01 Famously.
21:35 David Imel? Famously. Famously. Uh, I feel like when I'm consuming things at 3X, it's ju- it's like, it's like, it's like 5% too fast for my brain to be able to understand what's happening before the next thing is coming in.
21:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:51 Speaker 04 Do you know how to read fast?
21:52 David Imel? No.
21:54 Speaker 04 There's a way to read fast where instead of reading each word out loud in your head, you just let your eyes scan it.
22:00 David Imel? Yeah.
22:01 Speaker 04 Cause your brain will catch up and process it. That's how you gotta start watching these YouTube videos.
22:05 Speaker 01 My brain doesn't work like that.
22:06 Speaker 04 Just stare at the screen, glaze over, and just like, let it all come in.
22:12 Speaker 01 I...
22:15 Speaker 01 I was just editing a short and we were trying to get our shorts under 60 seconds.
22:19 David Imel? Yeah.
22:19 Speaker 01 And sometimes if we record the whole short and I edit it and it's all good and I get to the end, it'll be like a minute and four seconds. And the only way, I've like trimmed all the air and I've cut it up perfectly.
22:31 David Imel? You speed up the whole thing.
22:32 Speaker 01 And the only way for me to get it under a minute is to speed it up by like 5%.
22:36 David Imel? Yeah.
22:36 Speaker 01 And I'll go and I'll highlight the whole thing and I'll, I'll, I'll set it to 105% and I'll play it back and it'll sound just a little bit too fast and I, I don't know if I wanna publish that cause it doesn't really sound right, it's just a little bit too fast or whatever. You guys are telling me you listen to videos at 250% speed of what they were meant to be watched at?
22:55 Speaker 04 And want more.
22:56 Speaker 01 And you want more?
22:57 David Imel? Well, I don't know if I want more. I mean, it would be useful to have 300, you know what I mean?
23:02 Speaker 01 What's an example of a video that you would?
23:05 David Imel? Bro, the meta on YouTube is like four hour videos right now.
23:09 Speaker 01 So those videos, I feel like, aren't really meant to be watched the whole time. You kind of listen to it in the background, you watch some of it, you glance over, maybe it's like a podcast, like you're, it's like on the Bluetooth in the car.
23:23 David Imel? Yeah, that's not a good example. For, for research, when I'm researching something, I need to like watch as many videos as I can. And I like just consume the information, you know?
23:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, like if I'm watching an explainer, just leave it on 2X.
23:36 David Imel? And I have to watch multiple different videos explaining the topic to kinda get it in multiple different ways in my head. And so the faster I can ingest that information, the better.
23:46 Speaker 01 I get that. I guess it's just that those probably are not very visual explainers. Because I can process the audio at 2X, I absolutely don't think you can process.
23:55 Speaker 04 Well, you could pause it, you know, so like, yeah.
23:57 Speaker 01 Well, then it's just 1X.
23:58 Speaker 04 I'm just letting... Then it's zero.
24:01 David Imel? Pause it and then it catches up.
24:03 Speaker 04 If I'm watching an explainer about something and I'm really confused about like a graphic on screen or something like that, I'll just pause it and then I'll like wrap my head around it like, "Okay, go on," and then continue with 2X.
24:12 Speaker 01 I wonder if the amount of time you would have taken up watching at 1X or watching at 2X and then pausing for graphics?
24:19 Speaker 04 I mean, I'm not sitting there for four minutes looking at the graphic, you know?
24:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:22 Speaker 04 But that's how much time I save watching 2X.
24:25 Speaker 01 I guess just as a video editor, I, my feathers are rough.
24:28 David Imel? Okay, here's a question for you.
24:29 Speaker 01 Yes.
24:30 David Imel? Do you edit videos at 2X? I do.
24:33 Speaker 01 What?
24:33 David Imel? Yeah.
24:34 Speaker 01 No.
24:34 David Imel? If you press L in Final Cut, it goes at 2X.
24:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, this podcast is only edited in 2X.
24:39 Andrew Manganelli? I do that. Editing the podcast, it's really good, especially editing a podcast you were part of because you kind of know what's happening. That's how I used to do first passes when I edited.
24:50 Speaker 01 A first pass, maybe?
24:51 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
24:51 David Imel? The main way I edit videos is like ripple trim back, ripple trim forward and add edit. So it's like it cuts out everything behind it, adds an edit or cuts out anything, everything in front of it. And so you're just like, "Bluh, oh, here's a part, ripple trim back, bluh, here's a part, ripple trim back, add edit, move forward, bluh." Yeah.
25:11 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
25:13 David Imel? So how do you, I mean, you edit at 1X speed?
25:15 Speaker 01 I do. I edit everything at 1X speed very meticulously and I make-
25:18 David Imel? You're still quite fast.
25:19 Speaker 01 Eighth of a second, tenth of a second, fraction of a second adjustments.
25:22 David Imel? I do that too.
25:24 Speaker 04 Yeah. Well, you could still do that.
25:25 David Imel? You still do that.
25:26 Andrew Manganelli? First pass.
25:27 David Imel? First pass.
25:28 Andrew Manganelli? He's saying like first pass, to find the takes.
25:30 David Imel? Yeah. Although I will say, I probably never watched a video at regular speed before publishing it, so.
25:37 Speaker 01 I think, I think you should because of how many other people will.
25:43 David Imel? Yeah, that's true.
25:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:45 Speaker 04 Also, this has bitten me in the butt before because there's been times where like you guys drop in a frame link of a video that's going live and I'll watch it on like 1.75X speed.
25:55 David Imel? Why does-
25:55 Speaker 04 For those that don't know, Frame.io is a service we use to like leave comments on each other's videos.
25:58 David Imel? And it's limited to 1.75?
26:00 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's limited to 1.75, but even still, I've missed certain like weird cuts or things like that because in the speeding, it just won't-
26:08 David Imel? Yeah.
26:09 Speaker 04 Play that back.
26:09 David Imel? Because when you're playing back at 1.7-
26:11 Speaker 01 Five, you're going to miss frames. It has to skip frames.
26:14 David Imel? Yeah, but I start feeling.
26:15 Speaker 01 A flash frame or you like miss or like something extends for one or two too many frames into the next scene or something weird happens like that, you'll just miss it in the edit. And you have to watch it at 1X to catch that.
26:25 Speaker 04 I feel like I always catch those in frame, even after multiple people have watched. And now I'm realizing, because I'm the only person that I feel like watches things at 1X.
26:33 David Imel? I watch at 1X.
26:33 Speaker 04 Okay.
26:34 David Imel? I'm 280 HD dude. If I'm like trying to watch back a 17 minute video that I'm like trying, you know, it's like, I'll get kind of antsy and then I'll have to pick up my phone.
26:43 Speaker 04 It also depends on the video.
26:45 David Imel? Check TikTok.
26:47 Speaker 04 If you start scrolling TikTok.
26:50 Speaker 04 Like some people talk really slow. So when you put it at 2X speed, it almost sounds like now they're talking normal.
26:55 David Imel? Well, and when you're used to watching 2X content, 1X speed feels like it's taking forever.
27:01 Speaker 04 And real, real life goes so slow for me. Like you guys sound so slow right now.
27:05 Speaker 01 That's like, can't.
27:08 Speaker 04 In real, yeah. You know. I'm broken Marquez.
27:12 Speaker 01 Fair. I, would you, I just feel like you wouldn't watch a movie at 2X. You wouldn't watch a.
27:17 Speaker 04 That's art though.
27:18 Speaker 01 You wouldn't watch a Kurzgesard video at 2X.
27:20 Speaker 04 No, I do. You watch those at 2X?
27:23 David Imel? Yeah, I don't watch movies at 2X.
27:24 Speaker 04 I watch anything that looks like I'm supposed to be taking artistic value from it. I watch those at 1X.
27:29 David Imel? Same.
27:30 Speaker 01 Okay.
27:30 Speaker 04 But if it's information based.
27:32 Speaker 01 I aim to make videos.
27:33 Speaker 04 2X baby.
27:34 David Imel? No, I watch, I watch way far at 2X.
27:37 Speaker 01 I, I aim to make videos as a creator that people watch as intended.
27:41 David Imel? Yeah, that makes sense.
27:42 Speaker 01 But if.
27:43 Speaker 04 What if your intention is 2X?
27:45 Speaker 01 Then publish it at 2X.
27:47 David Imel? Publish it.
27:48 Speaker 01 Oh, I see. Make a 2X export and upload that.
27:52 David Imel? And then just title it, watch this at point 5X speed.
27:55 Speaker 01 If you need to be real time.
27:56 David Imel? Lee, I want to do this so bad.
27:58 Speaker 04 Don't ever do that.
27:59 David Imel? Can I do a clip?
28:00 Speaker 04 This whole conversation will be a clip.
28:04 Speaker 01 Publish this at 0.5X.
28:06 David Imel? And say, watch at 2X.
28:08 Speaker 01 And then tell people to watch it at 2X. So this is like a 30 minute clip.
28:12 David Imel? Okay, so back to the story. So apparently they're going to allow 4X. I don't know what this is for. I, you would be a superhuman if you were able to consume at 4X. I feel like it's more for. Rushing forward in the video, but I don't know, you don't just click around in that case?
28:28 Speaker 04 You just hold.
28:29 David Imel? You can just hold.
28:30 Speaker 04 Hold space to fast forward.
28:31 David Imel? Yeah, but does that go to two?
28:33 Speaker 04 That does go to X.
28:34 David Imel? So, oh, it could do four. Maybe it's for that then. Yeah, but it's only on iOS and Android for some reason. Other updates that are in YouTube Premium and they are in testing currently are smart shorts downloads on iOS, so it automatically downloads shorts for you.
28:51 Speaker 04 How many?
28:52 David Imel? Uh, great question. Probably like five. I mean, there's value to like, I'm on the subway and there's no...
28:59 Speaker 04 Yeah, but that's assuming you're watching every 60-second clip to the full.
29:03 Andrew Manganelli? But that's the thing about it has to download every single one, yet the majority of things in a shorts feed that I actually watch to full is like 5%.
29:12 Speaker 04 Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So it's probably gonna download like 100. So you can just swipe through.
29:18 Andrew Manganelli? 145 seconds of scrolling.
29:21 Speaker 04 I would love to know.
29:21 Andrew Manganelli? Just maybe not quite that bad, but...
29:23 David Imel? Okay. Um, that, there's also shorts picture-in-picture on iOS, which is, you know, you know, there's that meme of like, of like, watching subway surfers while doing everything else? A shorts while you're doing something else on your phone?
29:40 Andrew Manganelli? Shorts while you're on reels?
29:41 David Imel? Yeah.
29:43 Speaker 01 That's a little crazy.
29:44 Speaker 04 It's a little crazy.
29:46 David Imel? Uh, there's going to be high-quality audio for 256 kilobyte per second sound on iOS and Android.
29:51 Speaker 04 Somewhere Ellis is shaking his fist at the sky.
29:54 David Imel? Why? Wouldn't he like that?
29:56 Speaker 04 I don't know. We'll find out.
29:57 David Imel? Okay. Um, also, jump ahead, which is this awesome feature where if it notices that most people sort of skip to a different part of the video, generally that's to avoid sponsors.
30:08 Speaker 01 It's one of the most useful features.
30:10 David Imel? It's pretty awesome.
30:11 Speaker 01 I gotta say.
30:11 David Imel? Yeah. It's basically...
30:13 Speaker 01 Almost every time I see the jump ahead button on YouTube and I click it, it's right at the end of the ad.
30:18 David Imel? Yeah.
30:19 Speaker 01 It's really good.
30:19 Speaker 04 Except for this podcast.
30:21 David Imel? Obviously.
30:22 Speaker 04 It's natural.
30:22 David Imel? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know why they're making these limited runs or why they didn't have that on web in the first place. Um, a lot of, these are all experiments, so...
30:34 Andrew Manganelli? I would just assume on web, people don't double-tap the screen to move forward. They move the...
30:41 Speaker 04 The cursor.
30:41 Andrew Manganelli? The timeline.
30:43 Speaker 04 Playhead.
30:44 David Imel? Yeah, but the jump, but there's, the jump ahead thing is like a little thing that appears in the corner.
30:48 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, but I thought it only happens on mobile when you start skipping. Like if you skip and in the first 10 seconds, it realizes in the part everyone skips, then it does jump ahead unless you skip all the way.
30:58 David Imel? I'll have to see how it works today.
31:01 Speaker 01 All right, well, we're gonna take a 1X speed break.
31:04 Speaker 05 We're gonna take.
31:08 Speaker 01 I don't want to talk in that slow. I'll take a quick break, but before we do, trivia time.
31:13 Speaker 05 Trivia. Trivia. Dude. Dude.
31:21 Speaker 04 All right, first question. Do you remember what the code name of the Pixel 4A was?
31:26 David Imel? Not Shamu.
31:29 Andrew Manganelli? That's the first thing I thought of.
31:30 David Imel? Quite the opposite.
31:31 Andrew Manganelli? That's what everyone thinks of.
31:32 David Imel? That's the famous one.
31:33 Andrew Manganelli? Iconic.
31:35 David Imel? I remember some.
31:37 Andrew Manganelli? Okay.
31:38 David Imel? But I don't know about this one.
31:39 Speaker 01 Code names are fun because companies don't usually talk about them.
31:44 David Imel? Yeah, and usually they're not actually related to the product, except for Shamu that was related to the product.
31:49 Speaker 04 Project Muhan is related.
31:51 Speaker 01 Technically true, but it's like public, it's like being publicly.
31:53 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, they are.
31:55 David Imel? Yeah, they called that project Infinity.
31:58 Speaker 01 Like an infinite canvas.
31:59 David Imel? Even though we don't have an infinite canvas in the world.
32:02 Speaker 01 But it feels like one. Yeah, okay, that's a good question. Well, we'll think about that and the answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.
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33:21 Speaker 06 Are you tired of hearing about business, tech and finance from the bros? We are the Tiger Sisters. A top business podcast with the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tiger Sisters releases every Monday and we decode money, power and love. And who doesn't love all those things? We are the internet's Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters. Tune in every Monday for late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. Check out Tiger Sisters on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Tiger fam.
33:51 Speaker 01 All right, so welcome back. Apple released a new product this week. It's an app. It's an iOS only app. Now, it's an iOS only app that you can invite Android friends to participate in the experience of. Whoops. But it is an iOS only app. And it is, in my opinion, the most Apple way that you could possibly do this. Yeah. It is an invites app. So those of you who are my age probably remember Facebook events where you'd have an event you wanted to invite a bunch of people to. And you have a bunch of Facebook friends. So what you do is you make a Facebook event and then you invite all of the Facebook friends to the event. So they all know when and where it is. This used to be huge. Right? That's, that's how people my age used to do this.
34:36 Speaker 01 If you were Andrew's age, you remember letters. Yeah.
34:40 Speaker 01 If you're younger, you probably use this app called Partiful, Partyful. Partyful. Which is a lot of the same thing. It's literally just for events, typically parties, sure. But you just invite anyone. From their phone number or their email address and then they get an invite.
34:55 David Imel? But it's cool because you can send text blast in Partyful. So people can say they're going maybe or not going. And then you basically can send updates. So you're like, oh, we're moving to this location.
35:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, and this has been true about Facebook events and about all the previous events things where it's like, you need to send a message to everyone who's there. There used to be a wall. Anyone who's invited could write on the wall and everyone gets a notification. If you change the time, you could, you know, everyone gets a notification blast. So Partyful is the newest hottest version of that. There's an app.
35:24 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, so I'd never heard of Partyful until yesterday when we, and I realized when I tried to figure out what Partyful was. It literally says that it is the Facebook events for hot people.
35:34 David Imel? I don't know why it says that.
35:35 Andrew Manganelli? That is weird. But I realized why I'd never heard of it.
35:37 David Imel? That is true though.
35:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, we're not hot enough, so that's fine.
35:40 David Imel? I literally, just as we're recording this podcast, got a Partyful invite and the person was hot.
35:45 Speaker 01 That means you're hot. Then you're hot now.
35:47 David Imel? Oh, shoot.
35:48 Andrew Manganelli? By extension.
35:48 Speaker 01 And we haven't gotten one, so anyway. So, so that's what's, you know, that's the current state of the landscape. So Apple comes along and they're like, you know what? We're a services company. We could make an app here. They make the most Apple possible version of this.
36:01 David Imel? Yep.
36:01 Speaker 01 Which is, the app is iOS only, iPhone only.
36:05 David Imel? Check.
36:06 Speaker 01 Anyone who has an iPhone gets a beautiful, glassy, well thought out experience. RSVP, you know, notifications, comments, all that fun stuff.
36:17 Andrew Manganelli? You can add an Apple music playlist.
36:19 Speaker 01 Apple music playlist.
36:20 Andrew Manganelli? Just want to, an iPhone and iCloud plus in order to create an invite.
36:25 David Imel? Well, to create an invite.
36:26 Speaker 01 To create an invite, yeah.
36:27 David Imel? But you can accept one without iCloud plus.
36:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, if you go to invite a bunch of people, everyone who has that app will have a great experience. But if you want to invite a friend with an Android phone.
36:40 David Imel? Uh oh.
36:42 Speaker 01 I guess you can and they'll get like a web link or whatever and they'll be able to RSVP through the web link, but they probably can't add to the Apple, you know, music playlist or anything like that. And they won't get notifications probably as easily. They'll have to probably return to that invite link. There's just a few things that don't quite work as beautifully for the Android friends.
37:04 Andrew Manganelli? We tested it yesterday because I'm on Android. Adam sent me an invite as a test.
37:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:09 Andrew Manganelli? It does bring up like a webpage. It's in your browser. The thing that's annoying right off the bat is you need an, an Apple ID to sign into it.
37:18 David Imel? Wait, really?
37:19 Andrew Manganelli? I needed to log in, or no, no, an Apple ID to RSVP.
37:22 David Imel? Really?
37:23 Andrew Manganelli? And I have an Apple ID, but I think there are plenty, maybe I'm missing something there, but when I said it, it said like login to RSVP and you had, there was an Apple ID sign in.
37:32 David Imel? If you're an Android and Windows user, you just can't RSVP to these events.
37:36 Speaker 04 It's just like accessing stuff in iCloud. Like, you know, when you're not on a Windows computer, I mean, when you're not on a Mac computer, you're on a Windows and you're trying to access your iCloud, you have to do it in the web and login through your iCloud that way.
37:46 David Imel? Yeah, wow.
37:47 Speaker 04 Which is annoying.
37:47 David Imel? That's wild. Yeah, they definitely put their ecosystem in the front here. You can add to a Apple Photos library and everyone can add to it live.
37:57 Andrew Manganelli? Awesome.
37:58 Speaker 01 Works super well for your iPhone, friends.
38:00 David Imel? Super well for your iPhone, friends.
38:01 Speaker 01 Now, your Android friend took pictures at the event too, but I don't know, man.
38:07 Andrew Manganelli? Don't want to see those, I guess.
38:08 David Imel? There's the Apple Music playlist that people can add to.
38:11 Andrew Manganelli? Also cool.
38:12 David Imel? Also cool, but they have to, again, have Apple Music.
38:15 Andrew Manganelli? That one's funny because there's plenty of iPhone users who don't have Apple Music.
38:19 David Imel? Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah, it's just one of those things where they were like, somebody else is doing this thing that we technically could take control of because we own everyone.
38:32 Speaker 04 It's so social.
38:33 David Imel? Yeah.
38:34 Speaker 04 It's a very social thing.
38:34 Andrew Manganelli? I think it's even a step further of, we control everyone in our ecosystem and keeps them in there. And then this is one more thing that has that friction of your friends that don't have iPhones.
38:45 David Imel? Yep.
38:45 Andrew Manganelli? Let's jam it in their face.
38:47 David Imel? Exactly.
38:48 Speaker 01 Think about the FaceTime experience. They finally added FaceTime on the web, so you can invite Android users into your FaceTimes.
38:55 David Imel? Yeah.
38:56 Speaker 01 And it's like, okay, great, now we can all join a video call. My aunt has an Android phone, whoop de doo, she can join, but she can't start a FaceTime. And also, it's going to be in the web browser and probably won't have all of the same features and I doubt she's going to have the Memoji face. Like, there's going to be things that aren't quite as ideal.
39:13 David Imel? Yeah.
39:14 Speaker 01 But it technically still works.
39:15 Andrew Manganelli? When did they launch that?
39:16 David Imel? 2021.
39:17 Andrew Manganelli? Have you ever FaceTimed with an Android user in that?
39:21 David Imel? Uh, once.
39:22 Andrew Manganelli? I'd never have.
39:23 David Imel? I tried it with my sister.
39:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:25 David Imel? Yeah.
39:26 Speaker 01 Same reason there is green bubbles and blue bubbles.
39:28 Andrew Manganelli? They can say it's there, but they don't expect anyone to use it.
39:30 Speaker 01 Exactly. And this is a very US thing. Like if in the US, this, this social peer pressure thing that happens with iPhones is so clear and so obvious, and it's so obvious what they're doing here. And many other countries are like, well, I guess I just won't use that dumb app then. It's pretty stupid. So this is, yeah, not multi-platform.
39:53 David Imel? Other features it has, you can use Apple Maps to go directly to the party. I believe you can add it to your Apple Calendar. And then also, it plugs into Image Playground, which I find Image Playground generally really stupid. However, people do put pretty dumb photos as their partyful photos. So I could see this being relatively handy.
40:16 Andrew Manganelli? Did you see the picture that I added to this event?
40:19 David Imel? No, because I didn't join the one that you invited me to.
40:21 Speaker 01 The podcast. You didn't join?
40:22 Andrew Manganelli? No, he doesn't like me.
40:23 Speaker 01 Oh, you're not invited to the pod?
40:24 David Imel? I'm sorry. No, I got invited. I just did an RSVP.
40:28 Speaker 01 Oh, so, yeah. You probably have to go home.
40:34 Speaker 01 Adam made a podcast invite, a podcast event on the invites app. And the AI-generated photo is a couple of microphones.
40:42 David Imel? Three microphones.
40:43 Speaker 01 Don't pay any attention to how the cables seem to disappear into thin air. And slightly out of focus ones are a little bit convoluted with the buttons. They don't really mean anything. It's fine.
40:52 Andrew Manganelli? It's working great.
40:53 Speaker 01 It doesn't seem to want to do anything. It's just spinning in circles.
40:55 David Imel? It gets the idea across.
40:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:58 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, I agree with you. Image Playground's kind of weird, but, and even with some past Samsung phones, they've done this where it's like the image generation for an invite, I could see that being like, kind of nice. It's like, let's get a general vibe out here that doesn't need to be super specific.
41:13 Speaker 01 And I will say, as the person making the invite, it was helpful because like podcast episode, what do we, what do you put for that? They had a bunch of balloons. They had like all these other things, but I was just like, ah, whip me up some, some microphone.
41:25 David Imel? It's, the equivalent of this is like, OpenAI is partyful and Gemini is Apple invites. Because OpenAI doesn't have access. Access to things like your Gmail or your calendar or any of this stuff. And it's like, it works on any platform and it's great. It works for everything. But then Google swoops in and is like, but we can plug in our ecosystem. And it's effectively the same thing. And I think you should just keep using Partyfull because stop. You just don't want to isolate anybody and we need to keep these platforms open. And Partyfull doesn't even have ads.
42:01 Speaker 04 Good luck.
42:02 Andrew Manganelli? I was gonna say, where's the Google version of this that does put in calendar?
42:06 David Imel? Google Meet.
42:07 Andrew Manganelli? Maps.
42:10 Andrew Manganelli? I guess it does have Google Music, but like, Google could do all of this and I'm sure most iPhone users have a Gmail account.
42:17 David Imel? That's a good point.
42:18 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
42:18 Speaker 01 But would they make it Android only?
42:20 Andrew Manganelli? No.
42:20 David Imel? No.
42:21 Andrew Manganelli? No way. I don't know what any of them are trying to do anymore.
42:23 David Imel? You know what? They make it Pixel only for six months. And then it would be available.
42:27 Andrew Manganelli? Launches with the S26 Ultra.
42:29 David Imel? Yeah.
42:29 Speaker 01 It's enabled by the Tensor G4.
42:32 David Imel? And then it would be available on Google Photos. For everybody.
42:38 Andrew Manganelli? The new feature pipeline.
42:40 David Imel? Okay. Anyway, if you like this feature, you should let us know. If you hate it like me, you should let us know. And.
42:46 Andrew Manganelli? I love it.
42:47 David Imel? Wow. You don't even have an iPhone.
42:49 Andrew Manganelli? I love it because it gives me one more plausible reason to accidentally ignore an invite that I don't want to go to. And be like, oh, sorry, I'm on Android. It just didn't really come through. Correct. Sorry, I missed that.
43:01 David Imel? Bug or a feature?
43:04 David Imel? Yeah.
43:04 Andrew Manganelli? Adam's like, I'm going back to.
43:07 Speaker 04 That is the greatest excuse ever. That and a child, but I'm not ready for having a baby yet, so.
43:12 David Imel? Sorry, my baby can't go. Just get a, you have a dog. A dog is a great excuse.
43:16 Speaker 04 Yeah, but people don't accept it as much as a baby.
43:19 Andrew Manganelli? What?
43:20 Speaker 04 I could be like, oh, I can't leave the dog at home. They're like, okay, so go home early. I could be like, no, I'm not going at all. I have a baby. And everyone's like, okay, I understand.
43:26 David Imel? I say, okay, so go home early.
43:30 Speaker 01 Babies is fine.
43:31 David Imel? Yeah. What did they do in the Middle Ages, Adam? People still went to parties, okay?
43:35 Speaker 04 Did they?
43:36 Speaker 01 And the babies were all fine. All of them.
43:38 Speaker 04 Famously.
43:39 David Imel? Famously.
43:39 Speaker 01 Famously. Okay, yeah, no, there's another app, though, or at least something that I haven't heard of, but I think is an app that Adam's gonna talk about.
43:46 Speaker 04 It is an app.
43:47 Andrew Manganelli? I think you might like it, honestly.
43:48 David Imel? Yeah.
43:49 Speaker 01 Okay.
43:49 Speaker 04 It's called Tapestry. It is a new app that combines a lot of the things that I do on the internet into one timeline.
43:57 David Imel? I'm interested.
43:58 Speaker 04 Yes.
43:59 Andrew Manganelli? Do you know how I know Mark is gonna like this? The two people I've seen talk about it are Adam and David Pierce.
44:04 Speaker 04 The third trisecta is the only person missing.
44:07 David Imel? It's a Fediverse reader, by the way.
44:09 Speaker 04 Basically, yeah.
44:11 David Imel? It's like Surf. We talked about Surf a few weeks ago.
44:12 Speaker 04 It's like Surf, but Surf, when you open it up, the homepage is more like a magazine. It's like a pretty kind of, like, it's very inspired by Flipboard. This is just, it launches you straight into a timeline, like a feed.
44:22 David Imel? Yeah.
44:23 Speaker 04 So you could just start scrolling and everything is color coordinated. So like, if you plug in your Mastodon account, it'll be purple. If you plug in your Blue Sky account, it'll be blue. You can add in-
44:32 David Imel? RSS feeds and YouTube channels.
44:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, regular RSS feeds. The YouTube channel one is low-key my favorite feature of this, which I-
44:38 David Imel? Cause YouTube is RSS.
44:39 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's RSS. And I don't think it's super unique to this app.
44:42 David Imel? It's not. Surf has it too.
44:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, you could just, well, I mean, just RSS feeds in general. You could just plug in a YouTube channel or whatever. But it made me realize how little I use my subscriptions box in YouTube. Because for the longest, I just go and I, like, the algorithm's pretty good now at, like, giving me something interesting that I wanna watch right on the homepage. So now, I can actually just add this into the thing that I'm using every day anyway. I'm always on these, like, social media apps scrolling, wasting my life. So, I could just put a channel that I actively wanna keep up with in there, and it'll pop up.
45:15 Andrew Manganelli? This could, you can put Twitter in this, right?
45:17 David Imel? No.
45:17 Speaker 04 I don't know. I don't use Twitter.
45:18 David Imel? No, you can only think, put things that have open protocols.
45:21 Speaker 04 What's Twitter?
45:21 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, really?
45:22 David Imel? Yeah. So, yeah, it has Mastodon, blogs that are open via Activity Pub or RSS or whatever.
45:30 Andrew Manganelli? I was gonna say, I wanna put, like, the couple Twitter beat writers in the NHL that haven't moved to Blue Sky yet. Throw them on that, so I don't have to actually-
45:39 David Imel? No.
45:39 Andrew Manganelli? You would have to use their-
45:40 Speaker 04 You'd have to use their API, which they-
45:42 David Imel? Yeah.
45:42 Speaker 04 Shook it.
45:43 David Imel? I mean, this won't be able to work with Threads either, I imagine.
45:46 Speaker 04 Not yet, no.
45:47 David Imel? Yeah, cause Threads hasn't opened.
45:48 Andrew Manganelli? If Threads ever decides to federate-
45:51 David Imel? They won't.
45:52 Speaker 01 They said they will, they won't.
45:54 Speaker 04 David, David, stop putting that into the universe. They will federate.
45:58 Speaker 01 Whenever.
45:58 Speaker 04 Anyway, this app, I've been using it since 24 hours ago-ish.
46:04 Speaker 01 Yesterday.
46:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, yesterday.
46:07 Speaker 04 It's actually like, I really enjoy it for two main reasons. One, the YouTube thing, like I said, you could just throw it in and then anytime a YouTuber that I care about publishes a video, it pops up in my feed like in real time. The second thing is because it's more of a reader type situation and I have my Blue Sky plugged in, I can't really interact with people, which I guess some people would see that as a con. You would have to like, you click it and it opens up the Blue Sky app and then you can like interact with them or whatever. But I like the fact that it's just like a one-way thing. Like I'm just keeping up, making sure that I know what's happening.
46:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:41 Speaker 04 And I'm not actually like going back and forth with people or anything like that. Like for that, I just open up the Blue Sky app and do that dedicated over there.
46:48 Andrew Manganelli? Can I ask, if you like, if you're on The Verge or 9 to 5 Google or something, can you get posts from one specific author?
46:57 Speaker 04 Oh, I guess if. I believe so. If they have RSS feed turned on, it depends on the site, I guess.
47:03 Andrew Manganelli? Okay.
47:03 Speaker 04 Cause I was even wondering like Verge was popping up on here, but I was wondering about the paywall.
47:08 Andrew Manganelli? That's what I do.
47:08 Speaker 04 So I was like, I don't know how that would work.
47:10 Andrew Manganelli? This would most likely just show like the thumbnail, well, the title and the header image, right? And then you would go into it and do it. But that'd still be good, cause if I went to like 9 to 5 Google and been like, I just want to see what Ben Shun's writing about and like have his stuff pop up, cause The Verge posts so much. Or like any of those blogs post a lot, but if there's someone specific you're following.
47:32 Speaker 04 Well, that was, going back to my YouTube example, my subscriptions box, I was thinking about the reason why I don't use it is because it is just plastered with IGN videos. And I subscribe to IGN, I like their videos, they do make great content, but there's so many of them that it kind of, and NBA too, NBA is another one. They will post like a million videos. So I just lose everything.
47:53 Speaker 01 I gotta unsubscribe from the big ones. I unsubscribe from most of the channels that like mass post like that.
47:59 Speaker 04 Yeah.
47:59 Speaker 01 Because the homepage is so good at just showing me the ones that I would have watched.
48:02 David Imel? Also, I don't think that we even mentioned that the name of this app is called Tapestry. I did, but yeah.
48:07 Speaker 04 You said that?
48:08 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, yeah.
48:08 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
48:09 David Imel? It is not a totally original.
48:11 Andrew Manganelli? It's made by the person or the app company that made Twitterific.
48:14 Speaker 04 Yeah, Twitterific, the client.
48:16 David Imel? Yeah.
48:16 Speaker 04 So they know what they're doing.
48:17 David Imel? Icon Factory is the name of the company.
48:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
48:19 David Imel? So.
48:20 Speaker 04 Good stuff.
48:20 David Imel? Quite cool.
48:21 Speaker 04 I like it.
48:22 David Imel? These readers are cool and more people should federate anyway.
48:26 Speaker 04 I guess this was kind of like your Fediverse corner.
48:29 David Imel? Shoot. You took over my Fediverse corner. There's only room for one of us in the Fediverse corner. All right.
48:36 Andrew Manganelli? One other thing to talk about, after a leaked memo from Meta, or I don't know if I would call it a memo, or like Meta has a private forum apparently, and this was a post in the forum. Bosworth, Andrew Bosworth?
48:49 David Imel? Yeah.
48:49 Andrew Manganelli? Andrew Bosworth.
48:50 Speaker 04 How'd you forget Andrew?
48:51 Andrew Manganelli? I know, man. I don't know. It's a long day.
48:54 David Imel? Andrew, you're such an A.
48:56 Andrew Manganelli? Wrote a pretty long post about why 2025 might be the make or break year for the Metaverse. I thought it was kind of interesting because of how.
49:06 Speaker 04 How deep into the Metaverse we are, sort of? I completely misread this title in the doc, and this whole time I thought it was about the Fediverse. So I was ready for David to go off. And now I'm just realizing just now it's the Metaverse.
49:19 Andrew Manganelli? I'm gonna read, I have a couple of questions about this that I want to pose to you guys, and I'm gonna read the opening paragraph of his post.
49:26 David Imel? I'm ready.
49:27 Andrew Manganelli? So it says, 2025, the year of greatness. Next year is going to be the most critical year in my eight years at Reality Labs. We have the best portfolio of products we've ever had in the market and are pushing our advantage by launching half a dozen more AI-powered wearables. We need to drive sales, retention, and engagement across the board, but especially in MR.
49:44 David Imel? Mixed reality.
49:44 Andrew Manganelli? And Horizon Worlds on mobile absolutely has to break out for long-term plans to have a chance. If you don't feel the weight of history on you, then you aren't paying attention. This year likely determines whether this entire effort will go down as the work of visionaries or legendary misadventure. First of all, bars.
50:01 David Imel? Bars.
50:02 Andrew Manganelli? At the end there.
50:03 David Imel? Andrew Barzouris.
50:06 David Imel? Nice. Dang.
50:07 Andrew Manganelli? But I guess he goes on then to talk more about like how a pivotal, how much of a pivotal moment this is, how people should be doing the best work of their careers this year, and then also how small teams can also succeed, which sounds like, hey, guys, I know we laid off a bunch of you, but you still can pull this off for us. And it just felt weird, and I guess my question is, we see Meta so recently really focusing on this like AR, VR, XR, whatever you want to call it, they're super deep into Quest. We saw the glasses not too long ago that they feel like they're kind of ahead of the curve on. When he says this is make or break for the Metaverse, what are we talking about?
50:50 Andrew Manganelli? Are we talking about XR in general? Are we talking about the physical like Meta worlds? Horizon worlds would be it for them? Like the virtual world? Or are we talking about like goggles? Because maybe they're moving more towards glasses, which is way more focused on augmented reality and like your own world with things on it. So I was interested in this. It feels like when you just read the title, it's like Meta's freaking out about anything XR related, but I'm starting to wonder if it's more about like the creepy Mark Zuckerberg.
51:23 David Imel? He's talking about this.
51:24 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, Metaverse.
51:25 David Imel? He's talking about Mark Zuckerberg in front of the Eiffel Tower.
51:28 Speaker 01 No, I think it's a
51:29 Andrew Manganelli? The legless.
51:30 Speaker 01 It's kind of a combination of some of those things. I feel, so we have seen some advancements lately in the world of mixed reality. We just showed Samsung's headset, the Project Muhan, which is, again, this weird thing where a bunch of companies feel the need to show us products before they come out, or that in some cases aren't even coming out, just to flex that they are working on this, it's coming soon. And I think that this is along the lines of believing that they will finally ship something that feels like it's You know, a usable, real pair of AR glasses. Like, the Snapchat spectacles are a developer kit, essentially, right? The Meta glasses that they showed us, the glasses glasses- Orion.
52:12 Speaker 01 Orion are not a real product, but they showed them off just to, you know, get them in front of people, "Look, we're doing this." Project Muhan, Samsung, prototyp-y, coming later this year. Again, there's a bunch of movement towards a bunch of companies all poised to ship something they just haven't yet.
52:32 Andrew Manganelli? I think it's interesting you go straight to Orion glasses, though, because to me, this feels like Orion is their focus, but like, the rest of Reality Labs and the Horizon Worlds-esque VR-esque stuff is like, "This is our last year to prove that this might be a thing." Because Meta before we saw Orion-
52:52 Speaker 01 Before AI.
52:52 Andrew Manganelli? Was super focused on, like, the digital world that you would be in and how it's so much better to work in this digital world.
52:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:59 Andrew Manganelli? And how it's better to, like, do all these different things. It's how you're never alone, you always have the option to be with people and in this cool environment. And I feel like this post, to me, feels more along the lines of like, "Hey, all of this stuff that we've been working on for a while, we may have just, we may just totally pivot at the end of 2025 and kill the rest of the Metaverse as a, like, place."
53:23 Speaker 01 I think the Metaverse is more of an umbrella term.
53:25 Andrew Manganelli? I don't know.
53:26 Speaker 01 I don't know.
53:26 Andrew Manganelli? I don't see Orion glasses as the Metaverse.
53:29 Speaker 01 You don't? Yeah. But it is like, part of the mixed reality- Yeah. It's like XR. The way I see it, they went all in on the Metaverse, that's why they changed their name to Meta. And then, when AI happened the year after, they were like, "Oh." I hadn't thought of that. Maybe that was, yeah.
53:48 Andrew Manganelli? That, well, no, but I hadn't thought of, like, they literally changed their name to Meta, and now it's like, "Well, we might give up on the Metaverse." Are they gonna change their name again?
53:56 Speaker 01 Well, that's why you're saying this year will determine if this entire effort, AKA naming our company Meta and tripling down, quadrupling down on this VR, AR, metaverse thing, will go down as the work of visionaries, because they were early to doing this and they really committed to it, or legendary misadventure. The world moved on without them and people didn't care about it.
54:16 David Imel? Well, what they were trying to do before was make the next browser or the next Google. Like, they wanted to be the next platform.
54:22 Andrew Manganelli? Like internet, yeah.
54:23 David Imel? So Mark was like, "Oh, we can quadruple down on being the next version of the internet, and then we'll own the platform and we own the OS that we can license out and all of this stuff." And I don't think anybody has used Horizon Worlds or cares about it. Like, it really feels like they never fleshed that out to a level that people actually gave.
54:41 Andrew Manganelli? Do you not remember when we played the Cheeto's Halloween world?
54:46 David Imel? Oh, yeah.
54:47 Andrew Manganelli? That was revolutionary.
54:49 David Imel? Right.
54:50 Andrew Manganelli? You don't remember? There was like, in Horizon Worlds...
54:54 David Imel? Chester the Cheeto.
54:55 Andrew Manganelli? Chester the Cheeto, like haunted house world.
54:58 David Imel? Because remember for the like eight months where every company was like, "We have a metaverse division now," and people were buying real estate in the metaverse?
55:06 Speaker 01 Chief Metaverse Officer.
55:07 David Imel? Yeah. Disney had a Chief Metaverse Officer and then they got rid of that role like eight months later.
55:12 Speaker 01 I think that was back when Meta went around convincing everyone that they were going to be the company that made the metaverse a thing.
55:19 David Imel? Yeah.
55:20 Speaker 01 And now it's not so clear that Meta's the only one who will have a stake in this new platform that we're...
55:27 David Imel? But I feel like the metaverse as a platform, Meta originally foresaw as mostly a digital world. Whereas now, it feels like everyone's like, "Oh, AI is enabling all of these other things that are just XR experiences."
55:43 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
55:43 David Imel? And so they're pivoting hard to mostly XR stuff, because like, the Ray-Bans are actually a hit. Like, the Ray-Bans are actually selling units. Whereas the Quest, everyone knows what the Quest's for, it's for VR gaming. So I think they're basically like, "If we cannot make our original 2020 metaverse version of what we were going to do happen this year, we basically need to pivot the entire company towards XR."
56:06 Andrew Manganelli? I think even the Quest is starting, like, they started making way better pass-through with it when they killed the, uh, the Quest Pro. They just were like, "Oh, cheaper version, let's do a lot of the pass-through stuff, a lot of the functionality in your own world kind of things." So even that, the thing that was their, like, money maker metaverse thing is even pivoting to this.
56:26 David Imel? And they are doing that to, they originally were doing that to compete with the Vision Pro, but now they're like, "Oh, it just turns out that people want this more than they want to be fully encased in a virtual world."
56:37 Andrew Manganelli? Did they destroy themselves by releasing a hit with the Meta Ray-Bans?
56:41 David Imel? Hmm, no, I think it just became more clear what people actually want.
56:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think they, it's one of those things where nobody knows what they want until they try it and they like it. So like, Meta is trying a bunch of different things and they have the Meta Ray-Bans and they have the Quest and they're gonna make glasses and they're just doing a bunch of different versions of the thing. And one of them will be a hit, hopefully.
57:04 David Imel? Yeah.
57:05 Andrew Manganelli? But enough of a hit to like justify this crazy investment that they've been doing?
57:10 Speaker 01 They want it to be. I mean, they want it to be the thing that everyone, like, they, every company wants the next iPhone, which is like probably pretty unrealistic, but every company is thinking that way. Like, we want to be the ones that pioneer the next big thing.
57:23 David Imel? Yeah.
57:23 Speaker 01 And it will be worth pivoting our whole company because we are now the ones that control and have made this thing that we can profit from.
57:31 David Imel? There's a strong irony where Meta is constantly talking about making like Llama open source and how like open source software makes everything better, but yet they won't open up the Threads API.
57:43 David Imel? So you know, when it, when it benefits you, I guess.
57:46 Andrew Manganelli? Waveform's been around long enough to watch Facebook change its name and potentially regret changing its name.
57:52 Speaker 01 Bang.
57:53 David Imel? Meta is still kind of a banger name, though.
57:57 David Imel? Okay.
57:57 Speaker 01 Banger?
57:58 Andrew Manganelli? Banger doesn't work.
58:00 Speaker 01 Could be a banger, could be legendary misadventure.
58:04 Andrew Manganelli? Legendary misadventure is an awesome way of saying.
58:08 David Imel? That's a band name.
58:08 Andrew Manganelli? Wow, we spend way too much money on this. And you're all getting fired.
58:13 David Imel? He's like, we are either the, the people who have charted history, or we are losers, but we're gonna say that in a much nicer way. Legendary misadventure.
58:24 Speaker 04 What would a success look like for them?
58:26 Andrew Manganelli? We would all be in, people would be watching waveform inside the metaverse right now.
58:30 Speaker 04 Like, that's such a hard.
58:32 Speaker 01 Hit products.
58:32 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:33 Speaker 01 Yeah. Hit products or experiences that are sort of familiar to all.
58:39 David Imel? Yeah.
58:40 Speaker 01 Like, success for Android was like a whole bunch of people using Android phones, and now Google can build inside of Android and everyone gets these things. Hit for Apple with the iPhone was pretty obvious, like huge market share takeover in a bunch of regions and like, now they're a services company building on top of the iPhone, like it's this thing that they control, it's a platform for them. Success for Meta is hit product that they can then build a bunch of things on top of slash around that they control.
59:10 Speaker 04 So is the product the headset or the Horizon Worlds?
59:13 Andrew Manganelli? I think what we're talking about here is they really, I really think they thought the product was Horizon Worlds. What, slash the metaverse, slash the digital worlds you kind of live in.
59:25 Speaker 01 You gotta buy a product to access that.
59:27 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, but I think there's more money in that being the default.
59:32 Speaker 04 Like, they want it to be the Android, basically.
59:33 Andrew Manganelli? I think they wanted it to be the new internet, pretty much.
59:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, the new Android.
59:38 Andrew Manganelli? Where you spend all your time.
59:39 David Imel? Yeah. Yeah.
59:41 Speaker 01 But now Android XR.
59:41 David Imel? Your new browser. Sure.
59:43 Speaker 01 Literally Android.
59:45 David Imel? Yeah, I still don't really know what it's for.
59:48 Speaker 01 It's, uh, it's for all the headsets that aren't running Metas or Apple's OSs.
59:54 David Imel? Okay, but here's a question. When have you ever seen someone use a headset? And Alice does not count.
1:00:00 Speaker 01 On my flight back from San Antonio on Sunday, I sat behind someone who was wearing a Vision Pro, who was gesturing wildly for two hours on a flight.
1:00:10 David Imel? Interesting. I've never seen that before.
1:00:12 Speaker 01 That's the first time I've seen it. But it's a thing.
1:00:15 David Imel? Yeah.
1:00:16 Speaker 01 And I imagine that $3,000 headset will not be seen in the public very often, but way more of the cheaper $200, $300, $400, $500 headsets will start to show up over the next couple of years.
1:00:27 David Imel? Hmm.
1:00:28 Speaker 01 And if you're a company like Google or Meta and you know that that's true, and you know that this hardware is coming down in price, and here comes Project Muhan, and then there's gonna be a bunch of other stuff, you wanna be the ones that are on as many of these headsets as possible.
1:00:41 David Imel? Yeah.
1:00:41 Speaker 01 So...
1:00:42 David Imel? I just, we've been on this ride so many times. Like, back in 2016, I was a VR reporter specifically. And I just remember, like, BMW was like, "Oh, we are using HTC Vibes to model the inside of our cars." And I'm pretty sure they weren't.
1:00:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:00 David Imel? And that they had given one engineer a Vive and said, "Try this", so that they could make a press release alongside HTC to make it seem like people cared about VR.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:09 David Imel? And I just, this is like the fourth time that we've had this like VR... Actually, it's probably more than the fourth time.
1:01:15 Speaker 01 Yeah. I think, and I resonate hard with that. The same thing, exact thing happened with me. I would visit Lucid, and they were like, "Here, put this headset on. You see, we designed the cars with the headsets." I'm like, "No, you didn't."
1:01:24 David Imel? No, you didn't. You did not.
1:01:26 Speaker 01 But every company wants to seem,
1:01:28 David Imel? Yeah.
1:01:28 Speaker 01 one, ahead of the curve or early to stuff.
1:01:31 David Imel? Totally.
1:01:31 Speaker 01 So if this seems like it might be the future, they'll just proclaim that this is what we're doing.
1:01:35 David Imel? Yeah.
1:01:35 Speaker 01 And, two, if you are wrong, then it's just legendary misadventure. You just move on.
1:01:43 David Imel? I'm gonna call every mistake I've ever made.
1:01:46 Speaker 01 That's the title of this podcast. Waveform, episode 272, "Our Legendary Misadventure."
1:01:50 David Imel? Anytime I make a mistake, I'm gonna like, miss an exit and be like, "We're going on a legendary misadventure."
1:01:56 Speaker 01 It does sound like a choose-your-own-adventure book, that they just picked the wrong task.
1:02:01 David Imel? Yeah.
1:02:02 Speaker 01 That sounds like you're blazing past eggs. "No, we'll be good, we'll be good."
1:02:06 David Imel? Banger. Alright.
1:02:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:08 David Imel? Alright.
1:02:08 Speaker 01 Well, we got a little more to talk about, but before we do that, we should take one more quick break.
1:02:12 David Imel? But before that...
1:02:14 Speaker 01 Trivia time.
1:02:18 Speaker 04 So, Apple invites is for iCloud Plus subscribers? Like, you can only create one if you're an iCloud Plus subscriber, correct?
1:02:27 David Imel? Yeah.
1:02:28 Speaker 04 Interesting. What year did Apple announce iCloud?
1:02:32 David Imel? I don't know. iCloud at all?
1:02:34 Speaker 04 Yep.
1:02:37 David Imel? When did clouds start forming?
1:02:39 Speaker 04 When Indeed, with the precipitation.
1:02:42 David Imel? When did Apple become a service?
1:02:43 Andrew Manganelli? Back when the atmosphere was invented.
1:02:47 Speaker 04 Remember when?
1:02:47 Andrew Manganelli? When Steve Jobs invented the atmosphere?
1:02:51 David Imel? Remember when we first started having things in the cloud? And people would just be like, "Oh, it's in the cloud." And everyone was like, "Whoa."
1:02:57 Andrew Manganelli? There was like a... They would always like, kind of look up.
1:03:00 David Imel? Yeah.
1:03:04 Speaker 01 Everybody knows you can't have clouds without air. So, think about when the air came out.
1:03:09 David Imel? Oh.
1:03:09 Speaker 01 Anyway.
1:03:09 David Imel? Which air?
1:03:10 Andrew Manganelli? Five billion years.
1:03:11 David Imel? The MacBook Air? I was there when it was unveiled.
1:03:14 Speaker 01 We'll think about this one. We'll think about this one. We'll be right back.
1:03:30 Speaker 01 Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So, AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the gold tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.
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1:05:18 Andrew Manganelli? All right, welcome back. I want to present you guys with a rant slash take slash I'm probably wrong. And recency bias has frustrated me, but I'm going to go on a rant anyways. And you can tell me how wrong I am.
1:05:30 David Imel? Yeah.
1:05:30 Speaker 01 Love it.
1:05:30 Andrew Manganelli? Okay, so I'm going to open it up with a comment. I think.
1:05:35 David Imel? Therefore.
1:05:35 Speaker 01 It's like you're presenting an argument to Congress.
1:05:37 Andrew Manganelli? In the state of our current technology in the year 2025, it is harder to watch television than it was 15 years ago.
1:05:46 David Imel? Counterpoint.
1:05:47 Speaker 01 15 years ago.
1:05:48 David Imel? Counterpoint.
1:05:49 Andrew Manganelli? 15-ish years ago.
1:05:50 David Imel? I'm stealing this counterpoint directly from David Pearce because he had this exact point on the Vergecast.
1:05:55 Andrew Manganelli? Sorry.
1:05:57 David Imel? Oh, yeah. Okay. Um, okay, so it's just cable again.
1:06:03 Andrew Manganelli? Yes.
1:06:04 David Imel? Which is annoying because we, we entered this state where it wasn't cable again. And you could watch things on like a couple of platforms. It was awesome. And now there's so many platforms that it's like, it's basically cable then. But it is easier to watch because you can now watch it on more things. Like you used to have it, you used to have, have to have like a satellite dish to be able to watch certain channels.
1:06:29 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, I agree. I'm, I think I'm most likely going to be wrong about this, but I think the vast majority of different things has created also this weird competition inside of where everything gets posted that it's also caused issues. So I'm, I'm going to. Tell my story. Okay. Very specific. In the greater metro area, we have a sports channel that hosts four different sports teams. It's called MSG Networks. It hosts the Devils, the Islanders, the Rangers, and the Knicks. It's here, it's the guy. There are cable packages around here. Oh, no. Generally, FiOS, Xfinity, Optimum. And you have to have a... The MSG Networks is feuding with like half of these cable networks. So... Oh, gosh.
1:07:15 Andrew Manganelli? The only networks available in my home right now are Optimum and Xfinity. MSG Networks is not on either of those. So my options then start going to the internet. I think I have to be able to watch a sports team. There's so many different ways I can watch this now. You go on the internet and there's things called blackouts because they're local sports teams and they have these local things. So my options then started turning into ESPN Plus has hockey games, but since it's blacked out, I have to run through a VPN. Then ESPN is constantly trying to fix you being able to go through that. So my final decision, after the last three years of trying to do this, is I bought DirecTV Stream
1:07:56 Andrew Manganelli? because DirecTV still has a partnership with MSG.
1:08:03 Andrew Manganelli? But now that I'm streaming and not just a cable plugged in, I'm watching hockey overtime last night at what feels like 360p because for whatever reason, my 800 down internet is like, nah, this is a little tough to watch right now. Like, no matter what, when you're streaming, it feels like you have the opportunity of buffering or low quality footage. Right, even though our internet's fast. Yeah, and in live sports or anything live, that's really annoying. Yeah. I can't just pause and let it buffer. I'm trying to watch something live. So I'm just so frustrated at the point that I used to just be able to like plug my TV. Like, my TV just had a cable, a coax cable plugged into it, and I watched live sports because everyone just carried live sports, pretty much.
1:08:46 Andrew Manganelli? And now cable is like this insane thing of like, even if you have cable and has like the, like, VODs, that half the time is like, oh, in order to watch that, you have to go log into Peacock now. Or like, you have to, that's on Paramount Plus. We have all these different streaming things. Everything is so segmented. And the fact that there's all those different segments, now those companies are like making deals with everyone and not having to do... MSG just reported that their... Possibly going bankrupt soon and they're still not agreeing to terms with Xfinity and Optimum to give people their packages. So like, they're literally dying and still not, I have no idea.
1:09:29 David Imel? Just wow.
1:09:30 Andrew Manganelli? It's so frustrating and I think whether I could watch it on my phone or my iPad or whatever, I still think ultimately it's harder to watch.
1:09:37 David Imel? I think that's a good take and I think you're right and I rescind my opinion.
1:09:41 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, wait, which side was David Pearson?
1:09:43 David Imel? He was basically saying, "It's very annoying."
1:09:46 Andrew Manganelli? It's more convenient now, but it's harder.
1:09:47 David Imel? His guest was saying, "It is, it is easier to watch it in more places because you can be like at a friend's house and as long as they have internet, yes, you still have to have the like right cable bundle, but the cable is now not a cable. It is now a platform." So it's easier to do in that sense, but I agree with you that it feels like the platforms that are carrying certain types of content are changing way more frequently. There's having all these deals happen behind closed doors. And it's like even shows that you're like used to watching like, "Oh, it was on Netflix yesterday, but now it's on Hulu."
1:10:22 Andrew Manganelli? Or Netflix gets like the exclusive rights to stream like a football game and then Netflix doesn't know how to stream anything and that goes down. Or Amazon Prime now has like MLB on Thursdays or whatever. It's impossible to just watch the couple of sports games you want.
1:10:39 David Imel? It's like you need to make like a 40-step flowchart, but that flowchart needs to change every three days.
1:10:44 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
1:10:45 David Imel? Yeah, it's classic fragmentation. It would be nice if you could just have one place to watch everything, but... That's a monopoly. Yeah, it's fragmented. It's fragmented across a bunch of different services and sports is a perfect example for that. I tend to agree. I happen to be able to get the channels that I need to watch, the teams that I want to watch. I have Verizon FiOS and I don't watch that many MSG games, but whenever I watch a team, it's typically on some channel. So, yeah, that is, that is, I think that's fair. There's a funny meme that's like, "Oh, I can't watch that. I don't have this thing." And then the response is like, "What do you mean, man? It's literally on FUBI. You can watch it for the trial on Hubu."
1:11:26 David Imel? If you, if you go to DDo.net, you can see it on TB.
1:11:31 Andrew Manganelli? Accurate.
1:11:31 David Imel? Yeah. Totally fair. I don't know where all these random streaming platforms popped up from.
1:11:36 Andrew Manganelli? They all sound real. That could have been the trivia question of like, which of these are real streaming?
1:11:41 David Imel? Because literally, it's like exclusively on Tubu. And you're like, when was Tubu a thing? Like, I've never heard of this.
1:11:47 Speaker 04 It's Tubi and FUBU.
1:11:49 Speaker 01 Super Bowl commercials, there's gonna be a couple more that you've never even heard of.
1:11:53 Andrew Manganelli? I'm glad next episode we get to talk about it.
1:11:57 Andrew Manganelli? So that's my rant. I hope some people in the tri-state area feel me on that one because this MSG stuff's been brutal.
1:12:03 Speaker 04 What happens if MSG goes out of business?
1:12:06 David Imel? Is MSG Madison Square Garden?
1:12:07 Speaker 04 Yes.
1:12:07 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, but they have their own network as well.
1:12:10 Speaker 04 Who would get those rights?
1:12:11 Andrew Manganelli? I don't know. I thought the thing I read was that like, Amazon might pick it up or something.
1:12:16 David Imel? It's gonna be on FUBU.
1:12:18 Andrew Manganelli? Freebie.
1:12:19 Speaker 01 Easy. Just have a trial.
1:12:22 Speaker 04 I kinda hope they go out of business, they're saying, but.
1:12:25 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah. It almost feels like it's at the point of like, do you remember when Linus is like, I pay for games and then I pirate them?
1:12:31 David Imel? Yeah.
1:12:32 Andrew Manganelli? Because I want to support it or whatever, not do that. But the pirating aspect is easier than the actual just doing the, what you're supposed to do.
1:12:40 David Imel? Yeah.
1:12:41 Andrew Manganelli? But yeah, alright.
1:12:42 David Imel? Wow.
1:12:43 Andrew Manganelli? That's how we'll wrap this episode up.
1:12:44 David Imel? Okay.
1:12:45 Andrew Manganelli? Go Devils.
1:12:45 David Imel? Yanis, or whatever. I don't know. Is that who got traded?
1:12:51 Speaker 01 Honestly, close enough. Close. It's basically like that, yeah.
1:12:56 Speaker 04 Okay.
1:12:56 David Imel? Uh, I think it's time for trivia.
1:13:00 Speaker 04 Trivia. So, quick update on the score.
1:13:03 David Imel? Okay.
1:13:04 Speaker 04 Marquez with five points. Andrew with two points. David in the lead with seven points. Yeah. Alright. First question, do you remember what the code name of the Pixel 4A was?
1:13:20 David Imel? The 21st day of September.
1:13:22 Speaker 04 Do you remember?
1:13:27 Speaker 04 I wish we had code names. Can we have code names?
1:13:30 David Imel? Tebow.
1:13:38 David Imel? Shubu.
1:13:41 Speaker 01 Two- two-ub.
1:13:42 David Imel? Two-ub.
1:13:43 Speaker 04 Why do they all, I've never...
1:13:46 Andrew Manganelli? I can't even think of a code name because now all I'm thinking is like, "treebeer", "traba".
1:13:51 David Imel? "Traba".
1:13:53 Speaker 04 Flip, man, read. What do you got?
1:13:56 Speaker 04 You wrote nothing?
1:13:57 Andrew Manganelli? Nope.
1:13:59 Speaker 01 You asked, "do you remember what the code name was?" So I wrote, "no".
1:14:06 Speaker 01 I don't.
1:14:07 Speaker 04 Good one, though.
1:14:08 David Imel? I put "sailfish"?
1:14:09 Speaker 04 Sailfish?
1:14:11 Speaker 01 Close.
1:14:12 David Imel? It was "sunfish".
1:14:13 Speaker 01 "Sunfish".
1:14:14 Speaker 04 At first glance, I thought you wrote "sunfish", so I was ready to give you the point, and then you said "sailfish".
1:14:18 David Imel? Yeah, Google Nexus's and Pixels have always been "fish".
1:14:22 Andrew Manganelli? I kinda like the font you wrote in.
1:14:24 Speaker 04 Yeah, what is it?
1:14:24 Andrew Manganelli? It's like tall. It's like short and tall at the same time.
1:14:27 David Imel? It's David Sands.
1:14:29 Speaker 04 Sands, David.
1:14:31 Speaker 01 That's funny, because it kinda sounds like David's hands, which wrote the text. Anyway.
1:14:36 Speaker 04 Wow.
1:14:37 David Imel? But if you type it, then it's not my hands.
1:14:40 Speaker 04 Interesting. Okay.
1:14:41 David Imel? David's keys.
1:14:42 Speaker 04 What year did Apple announce iCloud?
1:14:47 David Imel? And we're calling it iCloud.
1:14:49 Speaker 04 iCloud.
1:14:52 David Imel? With iCloud,
1:14:55 David Imel? you can get clouds in your eyes. I almost wrote "sailfish" again.
1:15:02 Andrew Manganelli? You almost wrote the wrong answer.
1:15:03 Speaker 04 Looking for a year. I'll do closest delta.
1:15:08 David Imel? Without going over?
1:15:09 Andrew Manganelli? No.
1:15:10 David Imel? No?
1:15:11 Andrew Manganelli? Closest delta without going over.
1:15:14 Speaker 04 Flip, man, read. What do we got?
1:15:16 David Imel? I wrote 2010.
1:15:17 Speaker 04 2010?
1:15:18 Andrew Manganelli? I wrote 2008.
1:15:20 Speaker 04 2008, Marquez?
1:15:21 Speaker 01 I wrote 2005.
1:15:22 David Imel? Was it 2009?
1:15:23 Speaker 04 Five.
1:15:24 David Imel? Was it 2009?
1:15:24 Speaker 04 The correct answer
1:15:27 Speaker 04 was 2011. David gets the point.
1:15:31 David Imel? Let's go. Did they announce it with iOS 5? Well, because that's when they...
1:15:38 David Imel? Because that's when they added iMessage got added in 2011. So I'm wondering if like iMessage only became possible because of iCloud.
1:15:46 Andrew Manganelli? It was announced at dub dub 2011 during the keynote.
1:15:49 David Imel? I'm pretty sure that's when.
1:15:50 Andrew Manganelli? That was around the same time.
1:15:51 David Imel? Yeah, that's when they announced iOS 5.
1:15:55 Andrew Manganelli? Okay, fun.
1:15:55 Speaker 01 Did they have cloud storage before iCloud, like under a different name?
1:15:59 David Imel? Yeah, the dinosaurs had cloud storage. But they started them in actual clouds.
1:16:04 Speaker 01 Oh, Mobile Me, dang it.
1:16:06 David Imel? Mobile Me?
1:16:07 Speaker 01 Anyway, okay, that's it for this week's episode. Uh, let us know again if you have a Pixel 4A. We're really curious. We really want to know.
1:16:16 Andrew Manganelli? I want to know. Hope you're not listening on it.
1:16:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, hopefully you're not like actively charging it, but.
1:16:20 David Imel? In your pocket.
1:16:20 Speaker 01 Thanks for, uh, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you very soon in the next one. Peace.
1:16:26 David Imel? Goodbye.
1:16:28 Andrew Manganelli? Wayform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Trovan. We're partners with Vox Media Podcast Network. And our track music was Vain Sil. And stick around because one day, all five of us will actually be here. Bingo.
1:16:53 Speaker 01 If the quarterback throws the ball.
1:16:56 David Imel? Yeah.
1:16:57 Speaker 01 And it doesn't get caught and it gets, and it hits the ground.
1:17:01 Andrew Manganelli? It just restarts, yeah.
1:17:03 Speaker 01 If the quarterback throws the ball and the other team catches it before it hits the ground.
1:17:09 Andrew Manganelli? Interception.
1:17:10 Speaker 01 Interception.
1:17:10 David Imel? Okay, yeah, I knew that one.
1:17:12 Speaker 01 If somebody who's not the quarterback starts running and drops the ball.
1:17:17 Andrew Manganelli? Even the quarterback running, that's what he did right there.
1:17:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, if somebody drops the ball, then the other team.
1:17:23 David Imel? Can pick it up.
1:17:23 Speaker 01 Can pick it up.
1:17:24 David Imel? Oh.
1:17:25 Speaker 01 Fumble, recovery. Can go run.
1:17:28 David Imel? Interesting.
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