Who Cares About Thin Phones?

There was a bunch of news this week! Marques, Andrew, and David dive right into all of the new things we learned about Material 3 Expressive from the Android Show. After that, they go over whether the new Samsung Galaxy S25 Edge and the rumored iPhone 17 Air are actually impressive just because they're thin. It's a fun one! Links: Android show livestream MKBHD - Galaxy S25 Edge Impressions Verge - Whoop 5.0 upgrade news Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What will you Canva today? What will you brainstorm, collaborate on, present today? What will you resize, post, edit, imagine? What will you research, test, switch, and finally have the courage to pitch? You got this! What will you visualize, design, brand, animate, create, generate? What will you translate, pour your heart into, or have a laugh doing? Whatever you want to make is possible. So what will you Canva today?

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:15Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com. I just did about a 15-hour road trip that was a whole bunch of cities in a row, and I listened to a lot of songs, thanks to the Spotify AI DJ. Wow. No regrets. What's up, David? Is that your impression?

• 1:32David Imel?

  Now, we're gonna take it back to 1997. Your parents were arguing in the other room. You didn't know what to do. You started crying.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  It does have a lot of...

• 1:41David Imel?

  Here's Mariah Carey.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yo, what's up, people of the internet? Welcome back to a subscriber-only episode of the Waveform Podcast. You're only hearing this if you are subscribed. And if you are hearing this and you're not subscribed, then there must be some kind of glitch. Definitely make sure you get subscribed as fast as possible, just in case this glitch goes away. Anyway, we're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 2:06David Imel?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  And I'm Nintendo Switch 2. So you thought...

• 2:10Andrew Manganelli?

  That was gone.

• 2:11David Imel?

  But it was always gonna come back.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  We're back. Uh, today's episode, we've got a case manufacturer leaking iPhone 17s. You know, this, this sort of life cycle of pre iPhone releases is in full swing. Uh, the S25 Edge, a new Google FavaCon slash logo, and also Whoop getting some massive backlash for their new 5.0 band. Whoops. But first, yeah, I was gonna make that.

• 2:34Andrew Manganelli?

  That is the first of probably 10 puns we will do with that one.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  I already have that joke built into the soundboard. I've already, I made that joke months ago. I was first. Uh, but first, let's just dive into the stuff that we were looking forward to last week, because we mentioned it was coming. The Android show, pre-Io this year, so we have Google I/O, but pre-Io, we had an Android specific 15 or so minute livestream from Google, where they went over some Android 16 updates. They went into Material 3, expressive, they went into, uh, some new Gemini features. Thoughts? Thoughts and opinions?

• 3:10David Imel?

  Many thoughts and opinions.

• 3:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I think my first thought was, I was wishing it'd be longer.

• 3:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 3:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, I, I was hoping, getting this a week early, I was excited for, because it felt like maybe IOs realized it's gonna be AI focused, let's give the people what they want on the Android side, and let's have an event event. Like, it didn't feel like an event.

• 3:29David Imel?

  No, totally. It was like a shorter, it was about 22 minutes, and they did a little, uh-

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Felt shorter.

• 3:35David Imel?

  Yeah, they, they did a little, but also a thing at the very end where they brought Dieter out, which is kind of an homage, just specifically for people who care about this stuff, the, to the level that we care about it.

• 3:48David Imel?

  They introduced some new stuff that will be in Android 16, and then also some new design elements, and some new stuff for cars and whatever. But it's all like later this year, which is very nebulous.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:01David Imel?

  And I feel like the reason they're doing this is because all of I/O is going to be Gemini. But the funny thing is, half of this was Gemini.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  This has kind of happened with an Apple keynote before, maybe one or two years ago, where they had a section that they essentially cut out of the main keynote, and it came at a separate time.

• 4:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  This feels like, oh wow, we have an hour- To give people about Gemini AI. Why don't we just take the Android stuff out and and publish it for the Android audience who wants to see that?

• 4:26David Imel?

  Right.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  So now we saw it.

• 4:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  It it's yeah, a couple neat things here and there, some new rounded corners and bold looks and obviously the stuff that we talked about last week. You know, the thing that caught my eye, that was interesting. I tweeted about this.

• 4:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I missed it.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Well, we were working on a video about this, but they keep doing this thing where they will use a Samsung phone to demo all of the new Android features. And I hadn't tweeted about this in a while, so I did. I put it on threads. I put it on Twitter. And I got all kinds of different explanations as to why they're doing this. I had maybe two or three things in my head. I got maybe seven or eight people that were very sure about why Google keeps doing this.

• 5:09David Imel?

  And they're all wrong.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  And they're well, I think they're all kind of right in a way, like if you combine them all.

• 5:14David Imel?

  That's true.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  You know, there's people saying, look, people recognize Samsung phones as Android phones, so this is a no brainer for them. It's a good collab. People were saying, oh, Samsung paid them to do that and just put it on stage in front of people, which I don't necessarily know if that's true, but maybe they have a.

• 5:31David Imel?

  Well, there was that report that went out recently that Samsung pays Google an enormous sum of money to put Gemini on Galaxy phones.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  So they have a relationship.

• 5:40David Imel?

  I mean, they obviously like for the last two years, there have been Google X Samsung ads on the side of the bus stop. Yeah, have said like, Google works best on Samsung.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's also, I mean, Pixel devices are are not popular in in comparison to Samsung.

• 5:56David Imel?

  In comparison.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  And especially most of the countries that we talked to.

• 5:59David Imel?

  Unless you live in my neighborhood and then you only see Pixel devices for some reason.

• 6:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I think what's kind of weirder about it is like, we're not, we've seen plenty of Samsung inside of Google events too, like a lot of wasn't it like watch OS from a few years ago, they were showing on Samsung watches because there wasn't really, there wasn't the Pixel watch out yet, but it's this. Not even mentioning it as like Galaxy series where they're just like demoing it and like very right into the camera like this is not a Pixel device and this was the the edge, right?

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:30Andrew Manganelli?

  For this show, it's like

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Oh, the S25 Ultra.

• 6:32David Imel?

  It was the Ultra.

• 6:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, was it the Ultra? Yeah.

• 6:34David Imel?

  They talked about the edge briefly at the end. I think Dieter talked about it. Famously, in the Google Pixel 9 event last year, the first half of the event was demoed Gemini on an S24 Ultra.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  That's the weirdest one to me. And even if it is like, okay, now you have your own Pixel phones, you'll surely you'll use Pixel phones to demo new Android features and they continue to use Samsung.

• 6:55David Imel?

  It's also crazy that they wouldn't demo it on a Pixel 8 and then be like, and that you thought that was the best of the best.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:01David Imel?

  Here's our 9.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Another explanation that I saw a lot of was Google is getting ahead of any antitrust sort of accusations by showing how rich and competitive the hardware landscape is that they're surely not favoring their own Pixel devices because look, we've shown so many Samsung ones. And then, of course, there was Dieter's section at the end highlighting like 8 or 9 others.

• 7:24David Imel?

  Pixel has such little market share.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:26David Imel?

  No chance that this is gonna be a problem.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  But you know, that is like another angle that I saw in my replies a lot.

• 7:31David Imel?

  Sure.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  So, yeah, there's, there's a lot of that. They also very clearly showed like the Android XR is launching on a Samsung headset, the Project Muhan thing. They very clearly show, you know, lots of other devices, but that just caught my eye.

• 7:45David Imel?

  It is interesting considering Google's whole thing has been look at all your options, but most of the time they're like Samsung, Samsung, Samsung, Samsung. They probably just know that people recognize Samsung more than they recognize other brand names. So it is a strategic advantage to be able to demo Android features on devices that people have recognition with.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  It just seems like an opportunity to make Pixel devices more recognized than they already are.

• 8:09David Imel?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  You know?

• 8:11David Imel?

  100%.

• 8:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I guess the people watching this, would you argue 99% of the people watching the Android show?

• 8:18David Imel?

  Probably have Pixel phones.

• 8:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Probably knows. Yeah, that's, that's, at that point, it's more of like Like the people watching this are probably, but uh.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I would still use it, even if they know about it already, I would still use it. But I don't know. Either way, that's something I had to bring up. But uh, yeah, there's some other stuff, what there's some new color themes, new physics in swiping away notifications.

• 8:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I like the physics.

• 8:39David Imel?

  Do you want to just go through like the different sections?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 8:42David Imel?

  Um, okay, we'll, we'll start with, they started with RCS updates. It was just kind of a little fun blurb that they had where there are now 1 billion RCS messages sent every day.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Thanks, Tim.

• 8:52David Imel?

  I was gonna say that. I would love to know how many of those is because all the iPhones suddenly got updated. Uh, that's very funny. But then we moved on to Material 3 Expressive, which we talked about before. And obviously this got very leaked and we even got screenshots and stuff before from this. But it was nice to see a lot more videos of it in action. And it seems like the primary changes in Material 3 Expressive are really aligned around the expressive angle of it, where the physics are very different. They really talked about a lot of the snapping and the jiggle and all the stuff that all the windows will do on your phones. When you're like pulling up a notification, you're pulling it to the right, but you decide not to dismiss it. It'll kind of like snap and kind of like bounce back.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:36David Imel?

  And assuming the phones are fast enough to make sure this doesn't lag, um, it will be great.

• 9:43Andrew Manganelli?

  You need high refresh rate to get the most out of your Material 3 Expressive.

• 9:47David Imel?

  Actually, yes. I would like to know more about Material 3 Expressive. And we had a briefing about this where I asked like, do you have any more to share? Cause they were just like, more color themes, it's more expressive, it has better physics. And that's all they said. And I would really like to know like, okay, can you tell me everything else? Cause you're, you're saying that this is like a generational update in UX. But you're not saying what else is new besides some dynamic physics stuff and some color. You say more colors. What does that mean? I don't know what that means.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  I guess to an extent Android has matured over the years where in previous generations, there would be like a total overhaul on what it looked like and what it meant to be Android. It would go from flat to hollow, which was like glowing and like Tron-like. And then they'd try something else and then they, they sort of have slowed down and landed on this more consistent, rough look for what Android is. So I guess it makes sense that they're not doing this enormous change and it seems very subtle. It's physics and it's little buttons and circles and colors. But it also just kind of feels like we're.

• 10:50David Imel?

  Spinning tires a little bit, just kind of tweaking.

• 10:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I like agree with you that it feels weird that they're saying it's like the one of the biggest updates when it it's meaningful. I think all of these things are really good, but it doesn't feel like the bigger thing was introducing Material UI a few years ago. And like, this is the really nice upgrade to that.

• 11:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, I do think although like physics and stuff are, they're cool to see. I think they're actually super helpful for people who might not understand phone UI that well, because when things are a little more meaningful of where it snaps to, I'm, I'm sure every one of us have had a parent or a relative who are like, I just swiped something away and I don't know what it is. And now if it's a little harder to do that.

• 11:27David Imel?

  Right.

• 11:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Or a little more obvious of when you're like accidentally moving something or like you said, if something like wiggles, you're like, oh, that probably means an actions available here. How do I figure that out? That's a really, really simple way of making something more intuitive, which is like Android needs probably because they're the worst.

• 11:46David Imel?

  I saw something on Blue Sky this morning where someone was like Material 3 Expressive is, is Android Senior Citizen Edition, because all the buttons are way bigger. Everything is a little bit harder to accidentally do. It's more obvious and in your face. The sections are more section. I mean, that's something we talked about last week is like in an email, you now have like sections for what's going on. You've got the compose window. You've got the keyboard section. You've got this section and everything's like cut out and kind of floating. And that does help you delineate like where am I, you know, on the phone.

• 12:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Some people in our comments did not like that apparently. Why would my email look like a chat log? It's like.

• 12:23David Imel?

  Cause people understand.

• 12:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I didn't think that was, I thought it was a great change.

• 12:27David Imel?

  Yeah, I think it's great.

• 12:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I think the haptics is underrated. I've seen, there's a couple of devices in the past couple of years that have come out with like extremely clever little haptics things. I don't know if you know on the, on Oppo phones, if you have a bunch of notifications and you hit clear all, it goes like, and you can feel all the notifications swipe away at once.

• 12:44David Imel?

  Awesome.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Just like little things like that. I want more of that built into Android.

• 12:48David Imel?

  Remember when Nothing made a huge deal about the fact that when you hit airplane mode, it like had a little animation of the plane like taking off?

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:56David Imel?

  They had a whole press release for that.

• 12:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny. Really cool haptics in the Android ecosystem is really funny, though, because then when you get that phone with the terrible vibration motor or something, all of that just feels like garbage. But I'm still happy they're making.

• 13:12David Imel?

  Yeah. So some more universal changes on that. They're going to have more customizable quick settings and there's a subtly blurred background, which honestly kind of looks a little bit like the iOS update that we are anticipating, where everything's more Vision OS like. They did have more translucency in the Android OS with this update, which seemed interesting to me. They're adding a new live updates feature, which is the Dynamic Island live updates. When your phone's locked, it looks just like.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Is it Dynamic Island or is it more like live activities?

• 13:44David Imel?

  Live activities.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:45David Imel?

  But Dynamic Island and live activities like play together.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you're waiting for an Uber or some ongoing action is happening.

• 13:53David Imel?

  Yeah. They look almost exactly the same, which I'm OK with because it's a really great feature.

• 13:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. It's so funny.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Copy the good stuff.

• 14:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so funny, like, seeing all this when I just got the One UI 7 update and like, it's very different, but also confusing. I'm just trying to, like, get something to play. And now, like, I have kind of like a live thing.

• 14:14David Imel?

  That looks like the live activities that Google showed off.

• 14:17Andrew Manganelli?

  But it's to, like, the left side now and there's...

• 14:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I've... My thoughts really quickly on One UI 7 so far is I've actually really enjoyed it. It's just a little bit of getting used to things. And I think for a big, like, visual change, that's a really good thing to say. Like, everyone needs their time to get used to it, but I'm not immediately hating it. So.

• 14:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Andrew Manganelli?

  The glowing review for One UI 7.

• 14:43David Imel?

  Small learning curve because you don't want to change too much and have it take forever.

• 14:46Andrew Manganelli?

  No. But it is really funny, like, seeing all this and being like, damn, there's all these cool things. And then my phone completely changed to something totally different.

• 14:53David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, that update kind of looked very similar to the live activities that came into this. So maybe there was some cross pollination there. We're talking about Samsung developing things with Google. You know, maybe they're in there. Also, apparently Material 3 Expressive is more battery efficient than Material U? Somehow.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Somehow.

• 15:11David Imel?

  Uh, which I'm down for.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:13David Imel?

  And it's coming to Pixels later this year.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:17David Imel?

  Which probably just means it's launching on the Pixel 10.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:21Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a very fair guess.

• 15:22David Imel?

  Yeah, but we'll probably see a beta in the next couple of weeks, considering iOS in one week.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Keeping my eye out for that.

• 15:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Everybody, if you, if anybody sees the Android 16 beta with this stuff in it before I see it, tweet it at me, because I want to install it on my Pixel.

• 15:37David Imel?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:39David Imel?

  Um, WearOS 6 is coming out, which adds Material 3 expressive as well, which is just kind of a visual refresh of WearOS.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Big buttons.

• 15:48David Imel?

  Big buttons.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Big buttons.

• 15:50David Imel?

  Shape morphing elements, as they call it.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52David Imel?

  10% better battery life, which is always welcome, if that's true. They are also adding Gemini to the watch.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, they added Gemini to all the things.

• 16:03David Imel?

  They added Gemini to all the things. That was actually a bigger.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  I, the one thing they didn't add it to was their home products, but they, they went Gemini to the watch, then they also went Gemini to Android Auto and, and Gemini to Android Google TV.

• 16:15David Imel?

  Isn't that ironic?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Which is.

• 16:17Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll get there in a minute.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  It, it deserves to be in all those places. If you bought a Google Home and it's still Google Assistant, that's the one place where I'm like, are they going to update those to Gemini? Or are those forever Google Assistant?

• 16:28David Imel?

  Which is the irony, because Google Assistant came out first on the first Google Home.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so is it doomed? They have to buy another one with Gemini? That seems terrible.

• 16:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  But you can software update those things.

• 16:39David Imel?

  It'll probably update it to it.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  I hope.

• 16:40Andrew Manganelli?

  They'll just explode. A resident Pixel Watch user wants to say something.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 16:44Speaker 04

  I'm so excited. It's gonna be so good.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  All of it?

• 16:49Speaker 04

  Just the watch.

• 16:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Your shape morphing elements just really.

• 16:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm excited for new shapes, new sounds.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Different colors.

• 16:56Speaker 04

  It's gonna be great.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Fun buttons.

• 16:57David Imel?

  Fun buttons.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Honestly, it seems like it's a nice little upgrade for the watch.

• 17:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you trust Gemini on your watch, Mariah?

• 17:02Speaker 04

  I trust nobody. It's not personal.

• 17:05David Imel?

  It's not Gemini or not Gemini.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Well, because at this moment, if you want to trigger assistant on the watch, it's Google Assistant on the watch. So if you have a phone assistant and a watch assistant that are two different assistants with different capabilities, that's annoying.

• 17:18David Imel?

  And then you got Bixby on the, you know.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so at least having Gemini be as many places as possible makes sense. I really do wonder, though, about Google Homes.

• 17:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 17:28David Imel?

  Um, okay, I'm very excited that it is coming to Google TV, that Gemini is coming to Google TV. There is actually a lot of natural language use cases with Google TV that make tons of sense, where you can say, "Show me a movie that's..." and then just describe the type of movie you want to see.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:42David Imel?

  Assuming it works, could be cool.

• 17:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Not only that, but more importantly, which freaking platform it's on. Like, because like, Google TV has all the different platforms integrated into it. You don't have to be like, sometimes we pick the movie and then I have to Google what streaming service it's on.

• 17:59David Imel?

  Well, when the Chromecast with Google TV first came out, that was probably the best feature.

• 18:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree, yeah.

• 18:03David Imel?

  Is that you can say the movie and it shows you where you can watch it.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  That's ideal.

• 18:08David Imel?

  It's so ideal.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:10David Imel?

  Um, so that's really nice. You can, you can ask for a type of movie that you want to watch. You can also like, look up more info about certain characters. You can ask just Gemini random questions where it'll pull up web info. So it kind of makes your TV this like, catch-all portal where you can watch content and also sort of surf the web with your voice, in a way. Which is gonna be useful for kids, obviously, because they're just gonna have a million questions about cocoa melon.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Hey, cocoa.

• 18:36David Imel?

  You know.

• 18:37Andrew Manganelli?

  How do I tell my TV to ban cocoa melon? Yeah, but I think the, the worst part about smart TVs is controlling them. So the more we can use our voice in a, a better way than just like, finding the, the microphone icon, pressing the microphone icon and then trying to get it to actually listen to you, like,

• 18:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Andrew Manganelli?

  being able to control it a bit more should make smart TVs a better experience.

• 18:57David Imel?

  Possibly, hot take, but Google's ecosystem of like, other stuff that's running on Android, like, Google TV is like, so much better than Apple TV, in my opinion.

• 19:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't use Apple TV, and I agree with you.

• 19:09David Imel?

  The remote is the worst thing in history, and even the new remote is like, better, but not that much better.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, from an F to a C minus.

• 19:16David Imel?

  Yeah, pretty much.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  It's also coming to cars, which is gonna be really useful because it can read things back to you. You can send things back. You can just do Gemini Live in the car, which is very

• 19:27David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  I kinda hate myself for this, but I really like Gemini Live now.

• 19:32David Imel?

  Welcome to the train, brother. I love Gemini Live. I've been talking to it a lot.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Me too! And if I just like wanted to Google something and probably will have a follow-up question or two, I just default to Gemini Live now, because I'll just think of my question and then just keep talking.

• 19:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Versus having to go, "Hey G, again," and then phrase a new question about the thing I asked about before. It's just better.

• 19:51David Imel?

  I had, okay, I just wanna give this example. So I was biking somewhere two days ago, and my chain came off, and I was like panicking, and I was like, "I have no idea how to get this chain back on my bike." And instead of, you know, Googling a step-by-step guide that I would be like guided to WikiHow or whatever, it just told me, and it was like, "Most bikes have this spoke thing. You just pull back on it." And I was just, I just did, and then it worked, and I was like...

• 20:16Speaker 01

  And it's so funny that you mentioned WikiHow, because they were getting all the traffic from that query before.

• 20:20David Imel?

  I know.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And now it's just Google telling you the answer, which is a success for the user, because I got the answer. But that's a whole rabbit hole of...

• 20:28David Imel?

  Yeah, we talked about that before, like, who's gonna write the content?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:32David Imel?

  So that's a whole nother thing.

• 20:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I say something really quick?

• 20:36David Imel?

  Please.

• 20:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you notice that they said "coming to Android Auto" or "cars with Google built-in"?

• 20:42David Imel?

  Which is, uh, the Polestar.

• 20:44Andrew Manganelli?

  But are we, so it used to be Android Automotive.

• 20:47David Imel?

  Oh, right.

• 20:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Was a car that specifically had the UI running Android versus your phone running Android.

• 20:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I do agree that that's like a little confusing, Auto, but I don't know why "cars with Google built-in" sounds worse.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it doesn't roll off the tongue. It's horribly branded, but it is a very useful feature. There's a, we're testing a Cadillac Lyric right now that has Google built-in.

• 21:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Has a Play Store. You can just download Spotify right in there, download Waze. It shows up in the car. It's all built-in. Those cars all have Google Assistant right now. Throw Gemini in there too. Yes, please.

• 21:18Andrew Manganelli?

  With that brand-new car has Google Assistant?

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:20David Imel?

  It'll probably be updated to Gemini.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's what, yeah. It'll be in, and Android, obviously Android Auto is beaming from your phone to the car. That will obviously get the new Gemini as well. So it's all useful.

• 21:32David Imel?

  This is everything I ever wanted.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Also, Gemini is coming to Android XR, which we already knew. I don't know why they showed that again.

• 21:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and it seems like at the end of it, they said like, we'll be, didn't they like, make a little tease to showing off?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  The glasses, they did.

• 21:50Andrew Manganelli?

  They showed the, him putting on glasses, but then the video they showed was what we saw in Project Muhan.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  At the very, very end, they teased a pair of glasses, which I guess they haven't ever actually shown yet.

• 22:04Andrew Manganelli?

  They have.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Have they shown them?

• 22:05David Imel?

  Yeah, there was a, there was a whole section where there was like a Google person like, using the glasses to talk to her grandma in a different language or something.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  They used him putting the shades on to signify that there's more coming on that front.

• 22:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  And then that was it. So we don't know what more is, but.

• 22:20Andrew Manganelli?

  We've seen some weird glasses stuff in the past. I don't know if we've seen like a specific model or anything. The Samsung event had the timeline where it showed glasses next to Muhan and also next to a triple folding.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Google has shown actual glasses off, though.

• 22:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, have they? I know they did the thing where all the reporters got to go to it, but they weren't allowed to like, show photos or anything?

• 22:41Speaker 01

  That was Muhan. That was like, an early.

• 22:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that was. No, because we were the first people who saw Muhan, and that was before that.

• 22:47David Imel?

  I read about, there was people who did demos of the glasses as well.

• 22:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It was in like, December.

• 22:51David Imel?

  They couldn't show photos or videos of it, but they could describe it to people.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I feel like I haven't even.

• 22:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's very confusing. The way they're, seem to be rolling this out, seems really confusing, but we were the first people to see, or show Muhan, at least.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Well, there were reports that the new Google glasses are going to be at I O, and that reporters are going to be able to test them. I will be there, so I'll give you my hot takes.

• 23:10David Imel?

  We shall see. If they let you record it, definitely.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

• 23:15Andrew Manganelli?

  If we can break your embargo.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Let us know.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Google also made a Find My Hub.

• 23:20David Imel?

  Yeah, so they had, they had one, they had Find My Device.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:25David Imel?

  But they updated it.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  They updated it. I mean, we all know, or you've probably seen what iPhones have, which is this hub where you can find my friends, find my devices, find, or AirTags all in one place, basically. And that's what they put together here. So you can share all of your contacts, locations, you can find these in one place, you can also find any of.

• 23:44Andrew Manganelli?

  The things that are in your devices like trackers, chipola cards, whatever it is. And it's all in one place and that's

• 23:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice and convenient.

• 23:53David Imel?

  But it's cool because you can also do find my for your friends. Which you could name find my friends, but that's already taken.

• 24:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It's taken.

• 24:01David Imel?

  So it's

• 24:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Find my with friends built in.

• 24:04David Imel?

  Yeah. Find

• 24:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Or friends with find my built in.

• 24:07David Imel?

  Find my built in.

• 24:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Find my Google friends.

• 24:09David Imel?

  Find my Google friends.

• 24:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 24:10David Imel?

  Yeah, I think it's cool. I think Google is really trying to mirror Apple's ecosystem and they're finally getting to that point. The main problem for them right now is nobody wants a Chromebook. And that's really the main problem.

• 24:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Is that the main?

• 24:25David Imel?

  They've got pretty much everything else and they have arguably more because you know, they have stuff in the cars. Cause Apple never launched their built in CarPlay thing that they talked about.

• 24:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Is so popular.

• 24:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, like Apple, even without launching the built in CarPlay thing is still on a lot of people's

• 24:41David Imel?

  For sure.

• 24:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Screens.

• 24:43David Imel?

  Either way, this is definitely an effort to sort of match what Apple's doing there.

• 24:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I did like, there was one and I don't, cause I don't use find my friends. So I don't know if this is available in it, but it was like, you could share your tracking for A time limit too. So it could be like,

• 24:58David Imel?

  Oh.

• 24:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Because like, maybe I don't want someone tracking me all the time, but I want them to make sure I get home. Okay. So it could be like, share my location for one hour.

• 25:05David Imel?

  Which they have on

• 25:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Do they have that on there?

• 25:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Great idea.

• 25:07David Imel?

  Yeah, they're just copying all of the stuff, which is great. I'm, it's good that they're doing it.

• 25:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Use it.

• 25:12David Imel?

  Uh, also with the find my stuff, they announced some collaborations with some airlines. They didn't say what airlines it was, but they said that you could share your find my tags and find my devices with the airlines. So it was easy for them for Which I'm never doing.

• 25:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Never doing.

• 25:28David Imel?

  I agree with you because they're gonna lie to you.

• 25:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 25:31David Imel?

  And you have the info, like you know.

• 25:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 25:34David Imel?

  Yeah. Why would the airline, the airline? Should already know where my bags are because they tag everything and scan it every time.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:41David Imel?

  But if they somehow lose it, then I have the information of where GPS is. I'm not sharing that with anybody.

• 25:46Andrew Manganelli?

  And also, why, why do I want, I'm sure there's some sort of cutoff for it, but why do I want the potential of United knowing where my bag is at all times? Now it knows where I live. Now it knows where it's been to. Like, I, you do not need to know that, United.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they announced a collaboration with a couple of actual suitcase partners that are going to have Androids find my built-in as well, which is interesting.

• 26:09Andrew Manganelli?

  The airlines should be finding a couple of new air traffic controllers for Newark instead of my bag. Okay, grandpa.

• 26:14David Imel?

  Be nice.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's facts, though.

• 26:16David Imel?

  When I fly out of Newark today, we'll see if I even fly out of Newark today.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Godspeed, David.

• 26:20David Imel?

  Thank you.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Keep us posted on if your delay is over or under. I'm setting it at five and a half hours.

• 26:25David Imel?

  It's already at one hour and I'm supposed to leave at five, so we'll see.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Like I said.

• 26:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Five and a half.

• 26:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  One last thing for Google.

• 26:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  There's a new logo, kinda. It's not actually the new Google logo so much as, you know how when you have a tab with Google open, there's a little icon that represents the, the, the Fabicon is what it's called?

• 26:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  It's just a new one of those.

• 26:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  This logo doesn't really appear anywhere else.

• 26:50David Imel?

  I believe they updated it in the iOS app for Google Search and potentially the Android app as well.

• 26:58Andrew Manganelli?

  The G, the singular G logo.

• 27:01David Imel?

  The singular G logo.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Okay, that has.

• 27:03David Imel?

  Where that appears.

• 27:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's four different colors. It used to have a hard cutoff. Now it is a gradient between the colors. I hate it.

• 27:12David Imel?

  I think it's beautiful.

• 27:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate it.

• 27:13David Imel?

  It's beautiful. Gemini, like, they're, they're adding all this brand cohesion and Gemini is already this really nice, like, aquamarine sort of cyan blue that kind of melds into green. And it's very cool. And so they're, they're sort of just blending that with the regular Google logo.

• 27:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Google blends too much. They already screwed up all the other app logos by making them all look exactly the same. Like, Maps looks exactly the same, Photos looks, like, they're all too similar.

• 27:40David Imel?

  Cause they feel compelled to use all four colors in every logo.

• 27:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is funny though, cause Gemini is not that.

• 27:46David Imel?

  Right.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:47David Imel?

  And it's fine. Yeah, I think it's yeah, I could talk. They didn't have to go that hard.

• 27:53Andrew Manganelli?

  We asked Michael and Tim about this because we're like, oh, designers, tell us what to think. And then we realized that the old logo itself also doesn't really make a lot of sense. It is not equally portioned off. None of the lines really connect to each other, like the line between green and yellow connecting to the end of the top of the G. There's like a bunch of extra space on the G and I don't know.

• 28:17David Imel?

  Interesting to me now is how do you say what the official hex value colors of this is? And also, also, uh, they seem to be different. Like, it seems like they upped the luminance values of all four colors. So that they're not lighter. All, all of them are lighter. Even the green, the green is lighter, unless that's one of those optical illusion things.

• 28:40Andrew Manganelli?

  For some reason, I think this specific image is a little less, a little lower quality than the other ones. So I don't know if that's part of it, but the, the green is long and makes the red feel.

• 28:51David Imel?

  Orange.

• 28:51Andrew Manganelli?

  A third, like 30% shorter.

• 28:54David Imel?

  I love it.

• 28:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate it.

• 28:57David Imel?

  Uh, I want to say one more thing really quickly before we take a break. Speaking of Google, they are replacing, or at least testing, replacing the I'm feeling lucky button, which if you don't know what that is, it's, it's a callback to the original version of Google. When you could just press this button and it would send you to a random webpage, which was very similar to, uh, or a random search, I think. Which is similar to the Wikipedia random article button. And they've just kept it there forever, which I found very funny because it probably got almost no use. But they're replacing it with an AI mode button, which is basically like when you put in a search query,

• 29:40David Imel?

  you press the AI mode button and it's just Gemini, but in a separate UX where it kind of looks like a search, but you're talking to it. And I really think that, cause originally, remember what happened is they basically made AI mode like default and they would put the AI answer at the top. People got mad about that. They've kind of been messing around with it, but now they're giving you the option to just like, you want to chat about this query instead of searching for this query?

• 30:06Andrew Manganelli?

  If that takes away it defaulting to the AI right off the top and lets me choose, all for it.

• 30:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Also, the I'm feeling lucky button was a little different. It was you typed in your query and then it took you to one of the random results of what that was. So rather than having to scroll down.

• 30:21David Imel?

  That's a horrible idea. It also, if you press it without a search query, will take you to a random.

• 30:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Then it just went to random? Okay.

• 30:29David Imel?

  That's dangerous, but it's also. Not random, it's curated. Well, yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's kind of a horrible idea to take you to a random link based on that search query, though, because like, doesn't, isn't the point of Google that they rank things and that's their whole thing?

• 30:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like.

• 30:42Speaker 05

  I thought it was specifically a top ranked.

• 30:45David Imel?

  It might be the top ranked.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  I thought it was the.

• 30:46David Imel?

  You're feeling lucky. You feel like the number one thing is gonna be whatever. Like, you don't even have to look at the list. It just takes you to the first one. Yeah. That would make sense. Yeah.

• 30:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm seeing some people say it was a random result based on the search query.

• 30:58David Imel?

  R slash is millennials.

• 31:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Where I get all my information.

• 31:02David Imel?

  Nice.

• 31:03Speaker 05

  I think I have an answer, folks. I'm, I'm trying to find a second source that confirms this.

• 31:07David Imel?

  But if I ask Gemini.

• 31:08Speaker 05

  My preliminary research indicates that it would take you to the top ranked result for your query.

• 31:16Andrew Manganelli?

  That makes sense.

• 31:16David Imel?

  So it's just a faster way to get to your webpage if you trust Google that much.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  Or if you're feeling lucky.

• 31:24David Imel?

  Go to the casino.

• 31:25Speaker 05

  Let's, well, actually.

• 31:27David Imel?

  And I was gonna say, by that, I mean.

• 31:30David Imel?

  Trivia.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  Was that, I was sort of, I was sort of flirting with the idea.

• 31:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 05

  I decided to just send it.

• 31:36David Imel?

  Now, you should have sent it.

• 31:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Always send it.

• 31:39David Imel?

  Hey.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  All right, folks. Google's logo has changed a bunch over the years. But one thing has always stayed consistent. Their logo has always been six characters long. G O O G L E, six characters. But what I just said was a lie, because from October 30th, 1998 to May 30th, 1999, Google's logo had seven characters in it. What was the seventh character?

• 32:16David Imel?

  Seven.

• 32:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Sleepy.

• 32:18David Imel?

  Oh, I think I know it.

• 32:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 32:21Speaker 05

  Sleepy. Hey, very nice. Scrappy Doo. Is he actually the seventh dwarf?

• 32:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, that Scrappy Doo is not a dwarf?

• 32:30Speaker 05

  No, I'm just naming like peripheral.

• 32:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I was talking about the seven dwarfs.

• 32:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, I got that.

• 32:36Speaker 05

  Wait, you weren't talking about Sleepy Doo? You know, like all of the different personified Scooby Doo expanded siblings? Expanded universe.

• 32:43Andrew Manganelli?

  That's the next.

• 32:44Speaker 05

  Grumpy Doo. Grumpy Doo. I don't know any of the other dwarfs. Squirtle.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  Name. We'll be, we'll be right back.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  You've been asked to run the company's social channels, but company content plays by its own set of rules. It needs a logo in the first three seconds, but it can't feel like an ad. It needs subtitles, except when it doesn't. It needs to run at two times speed and deliver a complex message, simply, of course, within nine by 16. Thankfully, your company has Canva, so you can easily edit your video and every version of it. What will you Canva today?

• 33:39Speaker 06

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist, and Colin Martin, head of fixed income research and strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 34:24Speaker 06

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, "How do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting?" and "What sectors are on the move right now?" Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  All right, welcome back. We got one real phone and one not yet real phone to talk about. Which one should we do first? The real one. I agree. I think we should do the real one first. The real phone is, we got first hands on and impressions with the Samsung Galaxy S25 Edge. I saw you went to go to reach for it. I have, I have here the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, which by comparison is a mega thick phone at 8.2 millimeters. It's crazy. So I, we, we got to see it, we got confirmed specs, we got confirmed dimensions for the first time when we saw it. And I still like, even looking at it right in front of me, before they let me pick it up, I was like, "It's, it's thin, but it's not that much thinner." And then I said the dimensions, they

• 35:52Speaker 01

  said 5.8 millimeters thick. And I was like, "Hmm, okay, yeah, it's thinner, but whatever." And then you hold it and you're like, "Oh, whoa, this, this is really, really thin." Really? Yeah. It's weird. It even on video of my own hands holding it, it doesn't look that much thinner, but it is very noticeably thinner to hold. So that's what Edge is. The Edge is a phone that lives somewhere between the S25 and S25 Plus and the S25 Ultra. It's $1099 US. It's more expensive. It's more expensive than the Plus. It's less expensive than the theoretically brand new Ultra. And it's just thinner. It has the camera from the Ultra, the primary camera from the Ultra. That's weird.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  It has a 12 megapixel ultra wide. It has no telephoto. And it has a 3,900 milliampere battery, titanium rails. Yeah, it's just a thin, thin phone. So question. Yeah. It's not silicon carbon? It's not. Yeah, let's play the, play the sound.

• 36:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Which, what?

• 36:53Speaker 01

  I don't like a sad, sad one.

• 36:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Any sound?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Not like a sad one, like a trombone.

• 36:57David Imel?

  Bad. No, don't do that.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 36:59David Imel?

  That worked pretty well.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  That was good. Yeah, yeah, it's not silicon carbon and, and I, and people asked about this and we got a no from Samsung. And I kind of wonder if it was how much bigger the battery could have been because the obvious comment is, "Hey Samsung, we all just want a phone with better battery at the same thickness." And all of your new phones don't have silicon carbon. If you did do this ultra-thin phone, if you did silicon carbon, it could have had the same battery life and that would have been fine. But they didn't. So that was a little bit of a head scratcher.

• 37:30David Imel?

  Really weird.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Maybe the next version, maybe some, I don't, I don't know when they plan on moving to that. I think it is a scale question. Um, if you ever look at the numbers and how, how much volume these silicon carbon battery phones are. Samsung would be by far the biggest, so maybe they can't quite secure quality batteries at that scale yet.

• 37:50David Imel?

  I have so many things that I want you to test during the review. Cause like, I want to know, does it get hotter when you're charging it? Cause there's less thickness.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I said, so I, I would say, watch the, watch the impressions video if you haven't already seen it. We'll link it in the show notes. My main questions, I mean, obviously there's less room in the phone, which means, okay, less battery, probably less room for thermal, I mean, not probably, obviously less room for thermal solutions.

• 38:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  So is it going to get warm? It charges at 25 watts, which is the same as the S25 plus. Um, but the S25 plus had a 4,900 milliampere battery and this is 3,900.

• 38:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  And it is, yeah, it's just, it's so, it's so thin.

• 38:29David Imel?

  Silicon carbon is the perfect opportunity for this.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:33David Imel?

  Seems like a big miss.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  One, I just.

• 38:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Sounds like their easy upgrade for next year.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. I wonder, I wonder about.

• 38:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Thinking ahead, man.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Scale. So that is the edge. I, I'm curious to review the phone. It's going to come out. I know for a fact the battery will be worse than all the rest of the S25 lineup because it's the same chip, the same screen. It's the same everything else. It's just a smaller battery. So how much worse is TBD? And then the other question is like, who is this for? And will they actually be okay with this phone? And that's, that part is tricky. I think there's a theoretical person out there that does want the camera from the Ultra, the main camera.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  And does want to upgrade from the base S25s, but doesn't want a thick, large phone with a stylus that they don't have to carry around.

• 39:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not even thick.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  I don't know who this person is or how many of this person exists, but is, it could be a good fit for them.

• 39:33David Imel?

  I just think if you weren't sacrificing arguably one of the most important things in the phone.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:38David Imel?

  If they were able to fit the same capacity.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:40David Imel?

  It would make sense because it would be like, I'm paying the extra money for the extra flashiness of it being thinner. But I'm not really sacrificing much.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:49David Imel?

  But now you're sacrificing a lot and you have to pay more money for a feature that nobody asked for.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  I think this is, the big question is going to be, does Apple have the same angle and do they secure silicon carbon at their scale?

• 40:02David Imel?

  That's a great question.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Because Apple's going to ship a lot of iPhones, like they usually do.

• 40:07David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Probably more than Samsung will ship this S25 Edge. Are they going to have silicon carbon in that or are they also not going to have silicon carbon?

• 40:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think so.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  You don't think so?

• 40:15Andrew Manganelli?

  They never say anything about their battery size or anything. They're consistently the smallest battery sizes. They seem to not care. They're.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Which is what?

• 40:21Andrew Manganelli?

  They have software efficiency.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  That's what makes it a hard sell for me because if you're Apple, I feel like the magic of that is you have to be able to go, we did this amazing magical Apple thing where we have a thinner phone that has the same battery.

• 40:33David Imel?

  Which you could do with silicon carbon and not say silicon carbon.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:36David Imel?

  You could just go, we have this magic.

• 40:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I still don't think they do it.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  And I think you're probably right.

• 40:41David Imel?

  We should bet because I think they do it.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  I, if I have to go pure logic on Samsung couldn't, I know they would want to, right? It makes too much sense. Samsung couldn't. Makes me think that Apple also can't.

• 40:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Here's my other reasoning why. This has a 3900 milliamp hour battery.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:59Andrew Manganelli?

  The iPhone 16 has a 3200 milliamp hour battery. So if you can fit a 3900 milliamp into this small one, you can also fit a 32 milliamp. Why, I don't think they're going to want to make the battery that much bigger.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  So.

• 41:12Andrew Manganelli?

  So they can already fit what they had.

• 41:14David Imel?

  Plus or is that?

• 41:15Andrew Manganelli?

  No, there's a regular 16.

• 41:16David Imel?

  This is a tall phone though, right? Like the, the Air.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  The Air.

• 41:20David Imel?

  Edge. Sorry. The Edge is big.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  The Edge is the same size as the S25 Plus.

• 41:24David Imel?

  Plus. Yeah.

• 41:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, yeah, it's still.

• 41:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Thirty-two between thirty-nine, like, what is the iPhone sixteen?

• 41:32Speaker 01

  So I think you're right about battery size, but iPhones have always had relatively small battery capacities compared to Android phones. Because they're so optimized that they don't have to have that raw.

• 41:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Sixteen's thirty-five hundred, sorry.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  So I think it will be smaller, but I still think relative to the larger iPhones, it's going to be a smaller battery. And it has to be because of how thin it is. And I think that's going to make the battery life worse. And I think they have to either justify that or fix it.

• 42:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  So it will probably be a twenty-seven-hundred-milliampere battery in the iPhone Air. Then what do they do?

• 42:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, if we want to talk about the iPhone Air, one thing they're already getting rid of, according to this case manufacturer leak, they're getting rid of one of the cameras on the iPhone Air.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:19Andrew Manganelli?

  So there is more room in there already.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  One camera.

• 42:22Andrew Manganelli?

  One camera and a Pixel visor.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Okay, this is the also thing.

• 42:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Literally.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  The thing that I am, I'm trying to figure out is where will they position it in the lineup? Because Samsung just put the edge right in the middle of their lineup. Apple has used the word "air" before to mean the bottom of the lineup.

• 42:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  And I think they might do that considering what they've, what we've seen from these leaks, which is one camera. It feels like it's the bottom of the line.

• 42:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, wait, isn't air for the iPad in between the regular iPad and the Pro?

• 42:52Speaker 01

  So with the iPad, it's the base iPad, then the iPad Air, then the iPad Pro.

• 42:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So it's like, it's not the Pro, but it's, it's the shape, it's the shape of a Pro, right? That's what they usually do, like, it's fancier and it's flashier, but it isn't as powerful as the Pro model.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  But with the MacBooks, at the bottom is the Air, and then there's the MacBook Pro above that. So the Air is the bottom, and it's the thinnest and lightest, and that's what Air meant. And then you have Pro above it, is you need more power. And so the baseline that most people buy is the Air.

• 43:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Right.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  So which one of those do they do? With me, when I see single camera, I think baseline. I think, I mean, the SE has, or the 16E is the only one with one camera right now. So if the Air is gonna have one camera and then the Base has two cameras and the Pro has three cameras, to me, that hierarchy makes sense.

• 43:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It makes sense, but if you think about it as less of how many cameras it has and how many cameras did it take away? Samsung took away a camera, but put it above a phone that has three cameras, which is weird.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny that you went to, how many cameras does it have? One feels like the bottom. And I first thought of, how many cameras did they take away? And where can it go?

• 44:03Speaker 01

  I guess Samsung is less clear about like Pro has the most cameras because, well, the Ultra has an extra, extra telephoto. And then the S25s have a single telephoto. And this Air, this Edge has no telephoto.

• 44:17David Imel?

  I have a, I have a take.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:18David Imel?

  Okay, so I think that Apple is way more fashion forward and like, do you have the new thing forward, right? Like the Samsung people who, the people who buy Samsung phones are either people who just need a phone and just go to the carrier store and just buy the Android thing. Because they know Samsung, the brand. Or they're like the power users who wanna buy the Ultra and they know that the Ultra is consistently one of the best Android phones of the year and they want the most powerful thing. And so the, the Air for them is like, there's not really that big of a group of Samsung users who are like, I wanna show off to people that I've got the thinnest, newest thing. Whereas Apple consistently tries to slightly tweak the look of something just to make sure people know you have the new one.

• 45:03David Imel?

  Like with the, the Ultra 2 watch, it's just black.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 45:07David Imel?

  Right, that's how you know. And so I think the Air for Apple, they, they can charge more for. Because people are going to be more willing to pay for something that is clearly newer than Samsung users are, who just want something that is better and don't care as much about it being newer.

• 45:25Andrew Manganelli?

  What I'll fight back on that is, is according to this other, they show, this case manufacturer, Autofly, also showed the iPhone 17 Pro, which is a totally different back as well. So it kind of feels like the entire lineup is going to be newer.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 45:38Andrew Manganelli?

  For showing, so then. All, no matter what you buy is the newest thing.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  I think that's the take because if the iPhone 17 Air, the only things that we know about it is it has less battery and less cameras. How do you charge more for it? So I think because all of the new iPhone 17s have this new visor aesthetic, then that's their aesthetic thing to be like, oh, you have the new one. And then it'll be single camera, thin one is the base. Dual camera is the mid and then three cameras is the pro.

• 46:11David Imel?

  Can you believe that they just released the E and now they're gonna do this? And then they're gonna have the fold next year? How many iPhones are we gonna freaking have?

• 46:19Speaker 01

  I keep hearing that, but like Samsung has 17 million phones. Like, we never complain, but it's like, oh, the iPhone is usually only three phones. So now when they have five, it's like, it's a lot.

• 46:27David Imel?

  I feel like arguably part of the reason that a lot of people who don't want to think about their purchase by iPhones is because it's like, the lineup is, you don't have to use a single brain cell to decide what phone you want.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just go and it's like, here's how much I want to spend?

• 46:39David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  And then, okay, they've got a phone at your price. Although with Samsung, it's like, do you want to spend $99? Do you want to spend $119? Do you want to spend $149? Do you want to spend $229? Because they have a phone at every single price.

• 46:49David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Where with Apple, you walk in and you're like, alright, we've got 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1,000, 11, 12, and 13. So pick one.

• 46:57David Imel?

  Right.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  So they're gonna have like a folding one that's even higher? And maybe the Air slots in somewhere too?

• 47:02David Imel?

  I feel like, I think that they are going to say it's gonna have the same battery life. And because they're going to do that, I think it is going to be more expensive than the regular iPhone, but less than the Pro.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  So you're going silicon carbon?

• 47:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:18David Imel?

  That's my guess.

• 47:19Speaker 04

  Oh, I just wanted to say, I'm constantly confused as the person editing these videos, trying to figure out the hierarchy of what phone is which is a total nightmare.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 04

  And if you skip a year, you don't pay attention, suddenly there's something new.

• 47:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, Air, Air has more than one meaning in Apple land already, which is why it's not like a guaranteed sure thing where they're gonna put this one.

• 47:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:42Speaker 05

  Do you know the, uh, we're not allowed to make basketball references on the podcast anymore?

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Why? I thought we were only allowed to make basketball references.

• 47:48Speaker 05

  Everyone likes that except for me. Yeah, yeah, everyone sure loves when we make basketball references.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  There's a lot of comments.

• 47:53Speaker 05

  But to reference another sport that no one said we're not allowed to talk about yet. Uh, Colin Chapman, the founder of Lotus.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  What's Lotus?

• 48:02Speaker 05

  A car company that competes in F1.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 48:08Speaker 05

  They don't anymore?

• 48:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Lotus?

• 48:09Speaker 05

  Yeah. When did they stop?

• 48:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know.

• 48:13David Imel?

  That's Gemini.

• 48:14Speaker 05

  Fake fan.

• 48:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That's the guy who said the wrong thing to start.

• 48:19Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no, no. Anyway, he has this quote talking about the Lotus F1 cars of the 60s, where he says, um, he talks about his design philosophy and he says, simplify and add lightness. It's never take stuff away to make the car lighter. It's always add lightness. And I feel like that is the Apple philosophy with what they put air on. Like, we're gonna add more and it's gonna be less.

• 48:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Huh.

• 48:47David Imel?

  The Renault Sport Formula One team, which later became Alpine.

• 48:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it said the Lotus stopped in 2015.

• 48:56David Imel?

  They got sold to Renault.

• 48:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Was purchased by Renault and then Renault is Alpine.

• 49:00David Imel?

  Fake fan.

• 49:01Speaker 05

  I'm the real F1 fan here, everybody.

• 49:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Taking the chicane back to Chase.

• 49:09David Imel?

  What is that? What is chicane?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  An attempted F1 segue.

• 49:12David Imel?

  Is that a racer?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  I got it. I understood it.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  Chicane is actually the most winning F1 driver in history. His name is Chick Aine.

• 49:21David Imel?

  Chick Aine?

• 49:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, and he's just stellar. Yeah. Sixty-eight championships.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  He's gonna believe this.

• 49:27David Imel?

  You have to stop messing with me. There's no way that I can tell whether or not this is real or not.

• 49:31Andrew Manganelli?

  He's going to believe this.

• 49:33Speaker 05

  Sixty-eight championships.

• 49:34Andrew Manganelli?

  We've been talking about basketball the whole time.

• 49:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, chicane is a basketball player.

• 49:38David Imel?

  I literally would have believed that if you had not.

• 49:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Back to the iPhones.

• 49:43Speaker 05

  Kevin Durant, baby. Kevin Durant.

• 49:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I agree with David that I think this will be a middle of the lineup. I don't think this is cheapest. And I, I also think it will have the same battery life, but not be silicon carbide. But that's because the battery life's just all-day battery life. Stop asking questions. It's all day. The day might be December 25th, and it only is the day till 5 o'clock, but it's an all-day battery.

• 50:08David Imel?

  What if it is worse battery life, but they just still say all day? That is so real.

• 50:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree. We all know that's what's gonna happen, right?

• 50:15David Imel?

  I would just be insulted if I was an Apple customer and they were like, yeah, here's our much, much thinner phone that has much less battery. But it's

• 50:23Speaker 01

  But it's the same all day battery.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  If it is worse, though, what older iPhone are they gonna like, you know how like with the 16 either like the iPhone 12 like, are they gonna be like compared to the iPhone 7?

• 50:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Compared to Ellis's iPhone 12 mini.

• 50:38Speaker 05

  Compared to my 2000 milliamp hour 12 mini.

• 50:41David Imel?

  Speaking of old iPhones, I was trying and failing to switch back to Android this weekend. Because iMessage is just the worst thing ever and trying to deregister it. Yeah, it's a great service that is horrible in every other way. I was trying to deregister it and get RCS working. And anyway, Apple has a manual like deregister your account from iMessage page on their website where you can put in your phone number and it it theoretically puts it through the servers, even though it didn't do it for me.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  I don't trust that.

• 51:12David Imel?

  The phone they show on that is an iPhone 5. They've not, they've intentionally not updated that page since the iPhone 5 because they're like, yeah, we'll give you the resource, but you know, we don't want you to use it.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't want you to feel like we're prioritizing this.

• 51:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why I have two phones is I just.

• 51:32David Imel?

  I need to ask you about that later. Anyway, that's a whole nother thing.

• 51:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm surprised that page doesn't have the like, are you sure you want to go away from this? It's scary out there.

• 51:41David Imel?

  Apple cannot control what happens on Android.

• 51:44Speaker 05

  And then it texts like all of your contacts automatically like.

• 51:48David Imel?

  David's a loser. David's a loser. Okay, well, we're gonna take a hard left turn. Just like you would. Through the chicane, just like you would if you were.

• 51:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Left and a right.

• 52:00David Imel?

  On a run while you were wearing a Whoop.

• 52:04Andrew Manganelli?

  A Whoop. Did you guys follow this at all this week?

• 52:06David Imel?

  I did.

• 52:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It's pretty funny.

• 52:09David Imel?

  It is really funny.

• 52:09Andrew Manganelli?

  If you on right now, search on Google.

• 52:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Whoop 5.0, you get three.

• 52:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, three links, all one day apart. That goes, uh, whoop wants everyone to give a whoop about their new band. Then it goes, whoop angers users over free upgrade promises. Whoop backpedals on a paid upgrade. Whoops.

• 52:32David Imel?

  So whoops. So let's just define what a whoop is for people that might not know. Uh, it's a smart watch for people who don't want the watch.

• 52:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 52:41David Imel?

  Which it is a smart bracelet, which, you know.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  I say fitness band.

• 52:47Speaker 05

  Well, and it's, it's specific. I don't wear one, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it's specifically focused on recovery.

• 52:53David Imel?

  Right.

• 52:53Speaker 05

  Right? Like, that's what sort of sets it apart.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  That's sort of, it's like headlining features or recovery score.

• 52:59Speaker 05

  Okay. The body battery, that's a.

• 53:01Andrew Manganelli?

  No, that's a garment. Body batteries garments. I think whoop, I'm sure they didn't start it, but they were very focused on recovery and training, like to start. And I think a lot of ones caught up, which I'll talk about later, but yes, that's their whole thing. Everyone thinks whoop kind of has like the best performance metrics.

• 53:18David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 53:19Andrew Manganelli?

  But yeah, it's a, there's no time, there's no anything on the actual device. Um, it's a bracelet.

• 53:26David Imel?

  But I like seeing the time.

• 53:29Speaker 04

  It kind of looks like a slot bracelet.

• 53:30Andrew Manganelli?

  It does look like a slot bracelet.

• 53:33David Imel?

  Uh, Andrew, do you want to break down the drama?

• 53:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Sure, I'll go, um, well, let's start it off with what they released, which is the whoop 5.0. Actually, they released the whoop 5.0 and the whoop MG, which stands for medical grade. These new devices, um, what?

• 53:48David Imel?

  Milligram.

• 53:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Milligram. Um, they offer new bands, there's leather options, which are not backwards compatible with the old devices. And one of the big things they released is new tiers of subscriptions. So whoop is like famously because the device itself is pretty simple. So much of it comes in the software and the algorithm that they're playing with all the different metrics. And it's super expensive. You usually are buying like one or two years subscriptions to it, paying in advance to get discounts on that. And you upgrade as you go with the subscriptions and they're not cheap.

• 54:20David Imel?

  But notably, uh, you don't need, you never needed to buy a new whoop if you had the subscription. So if you had a whoop one, whoop two, whatever, when the new one would come out, you were supposed to get the band for free because the subscription is so expensive.

• 54:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the band, the little, uh,

• 54:36David Imel?

  The actual tracker.

• 54:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Not just the band, the actual tracker too that like connects into.

• 54:38David Imel?

  Sorry, I meant the band.

• 54:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, and so there's different tiers now. So there's, depending on the tier and depending on which device you have, since there's two different ones, they all do different things. They're either $199 a year, $239 a year, or $359 a year, and they include different.

• 54:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Tracking, or whatever you want to say. Um, I'm sure if you're really into this, you like all the different ones, but, uh, yeah, I don't really care about anything other than the, the lowest tier.

• 55:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, and then, so like what David said, or actually, real quick, I wanted to say something because I think it's very funny. When you look at these memberships, there's a little link that says additional medical information below, which basically just brings you to four different asterisks about how all these different things are not actual for medical use, which we all agree on, but then calling something the medical grade version and then immediately saying, this is not for medical use, felt weird. Just don't call it the medical grade version.

• 55:35David Imel?

  Right.

• 55:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Anyways.

• 55:36David Imel?

  We're using the same components as they use at the hospital, but it hasn't actually been certified.

• 55:41Andrew Manganelli?

  And like the stuff we're giving you doesn't necessarily mean we're giving you all the correct information that.

• 55:46David Imel?

  Right.

• 55:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Actual.

• 55:47David Imel?

  This is not financial advice.

• 55:48Andrew Manganelli?

  This, yeah.

• 55:49David Imel?

  Basically.

• 55:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Basically. It's literally that.

• 55:52David Imel?

  Pretty much that.

• 55:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, but the backlash comes from when they announced this, they showed that you could extend your membership for 12 months and receive the new hardware, or you can pay a one-time upgrade fee, which was either $49 for the 5.0 or $79 for the new hardware. The issue is, right before they announced this, and up to within, I think, two months of when like the, the Verge posted this screenshot, um, from their website as late as, it's like March 28th, so not that long ago. And on their website, it says, just like other memberships, Whoop is committed to releasing new and regular updates constantly without requiring the purchase of a new device. All updates are available within the app.

• 56:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Additionally, instead of purchasing new hardware every time an updated model is produced, Whoop members receive the next generation for free after having been a member for six months or more. Yeah, this was saying you need to renew for 12 months. So totally different.

• 56:48David Imel?

  Yeah, so they removed this verbiage that said that you got new hardware for free as long as you were a member for 12 months.

• 56:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Six months.

• 56:55David Imel?

  Six months or more, like a couple of months before the new one came out. Which required an upgrade is what they're saying.

• 57:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Which required either buying 12 more months or a one-time fee.

• 57:07David Imel?

  Of buying the actual device.

• 57:08Andrew Manganelli?

  The reason this is like really important is because a lot of people, the way they sell the Whoop membership is you can buy within, you can buy a year or you can buy two years. You may even be able to buy three years, but they, they make each month cheaper. You get a discount by doing that.

• 57:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:23Andrew Manganelli?

  So being, there are a lot of people who are six months into their Whoop membership and still have a year and a half left, who don't want to add 12 more months on top of that or pay 50 bucks. It's just straight up not what they were promised.

• 57:36David Imel?

  Right.

• 57:37Andrew Manganelli?

  So, you know, Whoop posts this to Reddit, their Whoop Reddit to get a bunch of feedback and immediately just get annihilated by the comments. Because

• 57:46David Imel?

  Shocker.

• 57:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Of course, yeah, it's the internet. It lives forever. People immediately found where it promised. And everyone in the comments was like, I'm canceling. This is literally the exact opposite thing of why I purchased Whooped. I was going to get free upgrades on devices. I only ever had to care about my subscription. Now you're charging me 50 or 80 dollars.

• 58:05David Imel?

  The number one rule of the internet is never charge for something that was previously free. Yeah.

• 58:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, this was, this like semi reminds me of like the Rivian, like, oh, you guys all made your preorder and now we're charging more for it. And then had to backtrack on it. I'm glad we're at the point where the internet's big enough where we can, uh, make companies give us what they actually promised.

• 58:27David Imel?

  Well, a lot of people were canceling.

• 58:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm sure they were.

• 58:31David Imel?

  This is a community that's like, you know, the Apple Watch, if Apple did something like this, it probably wouldn't, it would cause a backlash, but not as big because like, there's a lot of people are just not connected to the news whatsoever. But this is like a specialty fitness tracker and I, most of the people who own these things are probably like on the subreddit, like talking about this thing all the time. Community thing, yeah. Yeah. So they have a lot more power.

• 58:53Andrew Manganelli?

  They fixed it. They went back to, um, if you have 12 months remaining on your membership, uh, Or if you extend another 12 months, you'll get the device for free. So they did go back and they did fix it.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Other than that, it's a new whoop device. I still have no idea why anyone would want one. I think most smartwatches give all of the things that-

• 59:14Speaker 01

  They don't want smartwatches.

• 59:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, I will agree there. If you don't, if you want to wear like a regular watch and still want all the tracking.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  But then-

• 59:22Andrew Manganelli?

  This is great. I just don't think-

• 59:24Speaker 01

  How is it? It's not a regular watch, though. That's the thing.

• 59:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  What do you mean? Like, it's a band.

• 59:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. So you wear like a real watch, like your Casio on your left hand and then the band on your right hand?

• 59:34Speaker 01

  On your right hand.

• 59:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Then you get all of the uh-

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Your, or your bicep or somewhere else.

• 59:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you put it on your bicep?

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you can wear it. There's attachments to wear it on your chest strap or to wear it on your bicep or whatever.

• 59:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Underwear that you can put-

• 59:45Speaker 01

  What? I don't know about that.

• 59:47Andrew Manganelli?

  They do. Hey, they do. I'm just saying, I'm not saying- There's underwear where it has a little thing and it like-

• 59:52Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 59:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Clips into there or something.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  But yeah, that, I guess the point of it, the point of a whoop that I've seen is is people who want to do the fitness tracking, the sleep tracking, don't want a big bulky smartwatch, just want the band and that's it.

• 1:00:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I think my issue is I think a lot of the people early on were like their metrics blow everyone else out of the water. And I think a lot of people still think that, but I don't know how much I believe it anymore with so many other smartwatch manufacturers really diving into health metrics and-

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  I could tell you right now, their step tracker is doo doo water.

• 1:00:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it really?

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  It's trash.

• 1:00:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's beta. It's in beta. It might be out of beta by now, but-

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  I did the thousand steps thing.

• 1:00:25Andrew Manganelli?

  With the whoop?

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  It was like 10% off. It was really far off.

• 1:00:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  You can watch that short if you want. I took a thousand steps in every type of wearable.

• 1:00:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I remember that and it is kind of insane how bad a lot of these things are at actually tracking accurately.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. I think the whoop was so bad, we didn't even put it in the video.

• 1:00:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I think if anyone wants like to know, watch our Dr. Mike interview if you want a little more about how much you should take into account what these trackers are. It's mostly for fun and entertainment and sometimes a good motivation and look at trends versus looking at-

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Right. It's all trend data. Like you're not, you shouldn't be looking at the exact, just like how calories are definitely not accurate. Like the FDA allows you to be like 20% off when you list calorie counts on things.

• 1:01:10Andrew Manganelli?

  As long as you're the same 20% off every time.

• 1:01:14David Imel?

  Vaguely.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  And that way you can track your trend instead of the count of the calories.

• 1:01:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Which is, yeah, that's what Apple does with temperature.

• 1:01:20David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:01:21David Imel?

  That's what Pixel does with the thermometer on the phone for some freaking reason.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Case anyone was wondering, spoiler alert, 1,000 steps with every wearable. The iPhone measured 1,033 steps. The Pixel phone measured 1,021 steps.

• 1:01:35David Imel?

  Are you talking about watches?

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  No, I'm doing all the wearables.

• 1:01:38David Imel?

  But.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  You can wear a pedometer. It counted 1,074 steps. I wore a Pixel watch. It counted 1,012. I wore an Apple watch. It counted 991. I wore a Galaxy Ring that counted 1,006. And the Whoop counted over 1,200 steps.

• 1:01:54David Imel?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  So we went, eh, probably. Wow.

• 1:01:57Speaker 04

  Another W for the Pixel watch?

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Another W.

• 1:02:01Andrew Manganelli?

  And the Samsung Ring.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm surprised about that.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  The more you know.

• 1:02:06David Imel?

  The more you know.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  All right, we'll take a quick break, which means trivia.

• 1:02:13Speaker 05

  Scooby dooby doo, where are you? Yeah, not to toot my own horn, but you guys notice it's been like months since the lights broke.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Why would you say that out loud?

• 1:02:24Speaker 05

  Because I'm proud of myself, man.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Well, when they don't work for the answers later.

• 1:02:28Speaker 05

  Can I?

• 1:02:30David Imel?

  For the what?

• 1:02:30Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh. Anyway, so earlier in the episode, we talked about a phone case company leaking a new iPhone, which is not the first time we've seen it. But guys, if you ask me, we're living in a boring timeline. You know, okay, like, yeah, someone got the specs and accidentally. Remember back in the old day? Remember when Apple employees were leaving iPhones at bars at Redwood City?

• 1:02:55David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, brother.

• 1:02:56Speaker 05

  What iPhone did that guy leave in a bar?

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I almost just said it out loud.

• 1:03:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you remember when, was it the iPhone X that slipped out of Tim Cook's pocket on Steve?

• 1:03:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Andrew Manganelli?

  That was awesome.

• 1:03:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Did that really happen?

• 1:03:08Speaker 05

  You don't remember that? No, yeah.

• 1:03:10David Imel?

  It slipped out of his, his pocket while he was giving an interview on stage.

• 1:03:14Andrew Manganelli?

  And we all saw it.

• 1:03:16David Imel?

  Conference or something?

• 1:03:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, iPhone X.

• 1:03:18Speaker 05

  I.

• 1:03:19Andrew Manganelli?

  You remember.

• 1:03:19Speaker 05

  I am very proud to have seen an iPhone 5 in the wild before it was released.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  Are you allowed to say how?

• 1:03:27Speaker 05

  Yes, because this is so long ago. I, in high school, took the subway to school every day. And I was getting on the subway.

• 1:03:33David Imel?

  In LA?

• 1:03:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34David Imel?

  They have subways in LA.

• 1:03:35Speaker 05

  Get, get, get out. Leave right now, literally.

• 1:03:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, I just remember seeing a guy with a tall, skinny metal iPhone on the subway and just thinking, that's definitely an iPhone. Like, it has the home, like, that is unmistakably an iPhone, but I have never seen that before in my life.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  And he's just using it?

• 1:03:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, just using it, like, yeah. I'd like David said, you know, the subway is not a particularly used thing in Los Angeles.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are many other good sandwich options there.

• 1:04:05Andrew Manganelli?

  This is, this is the video real quick. At the start of this video, it is already halfway out of his pocket.

• 1:04:10Speaker 05

  It's like-

• 1:04:11Andrew Manganelli?

  And it was the double camera, like, you could tell it was a totally different phone at that point.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  It's being birthed.

• 1:04:16Andrew Manganelli?

  And it just, it just slides out and goes on the-

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  I totally forgot about this.

• 1:04:20Andrew Manganelli?

  And then he, like, picks it up kind of nonchalantly.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Wow. I forgot that that happened. Yeah.

• 1:04:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm surprised Tim Cook didn't pull out the Men in Black flash thing and just hit the whole audience with it right there.

• 1:04:31Speaker 05

  The secret Apple police, like, breaks through the windows.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  It falls onto the chair that he's sitting on and it falls so that it's face up. And I think he realizes, like, well, if it's face up, people won't be able to see the camera bump. And that's the number one thing I'm worried about. So he doesn't put it back in his pocket. He just, like, leaves it there.

• 1:04:48Andrew Manganelli?

  He leaves it there, yeah.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  I just, I'm surprised they would let Tim Cook go onstage with an unreleased product-

• 1:04:55Speaker 05

  Especially an iPhone.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  In his pocket.

• 1:04:56Speaker 05

  Especially-

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Like, just had, just give it to your assistant backstage while you're out there. I just, I'm surprised they let him do that.

• 1:05:01Speaker 05

  I wonder if this was like a turning point for Mr. Cook, because watching this video, this is pre-Sneaker Tim Cook. He's wearing what looks like Oxford's in this. And I wonder if, if this was the moment where he was like, nah, I can't be-

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  He had his Zuck glow up?

• 1:05:16Speaker 05

  I got it.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Interesting. All right. Well, we'll think about that answer, about the, the, you know, unreleased iPhone that was in a bar that one time.

• 1:05:24Speaker 05

  The question that we did ask.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

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• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  All right, we back. Last story we wanted to talk about real quick is Spotify AI DJ. I've been a long time user and I'm curious to hear you guys thoughts on Spotify AI DJ, but it just got a new feature. Oh, not a fan.

• 1:07:55David Imel?

  Not a fan.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  That's not a fan.

• 1:07:56David Imel?

  Not a fan.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  And I want to hear why, but it just added a feature that lets you talk to it and actually request things. So as of, as of this moment, before this feature got added, you open the DJ and it just does its thing. It decides what the vibes are. It starts with a bank of five songs or whatever, and it just moves from beat to beat and narrates in between and it does this thing. And then sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't. You just skip, skip, skip if you don't like it.

• 1:08:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  But if you want to specifically request a specific type of song or a certain song, like you would with an actual DJ, that's now a feature. And I think that's fire. I just did about a 15 hour road trip that was a whole bunch of cities in a row and I listened to a lot of songs, thanks to the Spotify AI DJ.

• 1:08:42David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  No regrets.

• 1:08:43David Imel?

  What's up, David?

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Is that your impression?

• 1:08:46David Imel?

  Now we're gonna take it back to 1997. Your parents were arguing in the other room. You didn't know what to do. You started crying.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  It does.

• 1:08:56David Imel?

  Here's Mariah Carey.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  History. It does know what you, because it has your entire listening history as well. So it'll be like, this is what you were listening to in 2010.

• 1:09:04David Imel?

  Which I really like because subtle flex. I was the 53rd person in the United States to use Spotify.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Oh, so you got a lot of listening history.

• 1:09:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:09:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:09:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Andrew Manganelli?

  When you said you could request a song, my first thought was, that's what the search bar is for. But I wanted to test it this morning and I listened to the DJ the whole car ride in and I think I've changed my mind on it.

• 1:09:26David Imel?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:09:27Andrew Manganelli?

  And I think I like X now.

• 1:09:29David Imel?

  It's great.

• 1:09:30Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, I think I like X the DJ, not X the website.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  The DJ.

• 1:09:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, Xavier. I want to make that very clear. But I think I'm pro Spotify DJ, even though I don't have the request button yet.

• 1:09:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Andrew Manganelli?

  But it played some bangers. It went from Bleachers to the Demon Slayer theme song pretty quickly. And I was like, oh, and then it did Higher by Creed, back to back to back. So I was like, you just know me.

• 1:09:55David Imel?

  Xavier was like, how do I get him? How do I get him?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  I know just the thing.

• 1:10:00David Imel?

  Ellis, why don't you like the Spotify DJ?

• 1:10:02Speaker 05

  I am so glad you asked, Marquez, because it's not about Mr. Xavier himself.

• 1:10:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I take a guess?

• 1:10:08Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:10:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry to interrupt.

• 1:10:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:10:10Andrew Manganelli?

  The crossfading between songs is like-

• 1:10:12David Imel?

  I hate that. I do hate that.

• 1:10:13Andrew Manganelli?

  It's too much.

• 1:10:14David Imel?

  It's too early.

• 1:10:15Speaker 05

  Well-

• 1:10:16Andrew Manganelli?

  It's too early.

• 1:10:17Speaker 05

  It is not good, and it's, there's this sort of like extra rub it in factor of like, I'm one of those people that really appreciates like the skill of DJing, and I don't mean just like scratching and doing all that, just like, a DJ's ability to pick good music in an age where there's so much music, and then creatively blend all that music together, I just think is a really great thing.

• 1:10:41David Imel?

  So you say that.

• 1:10:41Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:42David Imel?

  But have you tried the-

• 1:10:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, all the time. It does some interesting things, and it's not like I've, it's not like every single recommendation is bad, but compared to what could be, I think it's pretty trite.

• 1:10:57David Imel?

  Mostly what the DJ seems to do for me is that it just plays music that I listened to like a couple of years ago.

• 1:11:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04David Imel?

  And like, that's nice because it gets me out of my current loop. But it doesn't really introduce new music to me, and then when it does introduce new music to me, it's usually music I absolutely hate.

• 1:11:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I think it, the two things I found it does is, it's either basically just like, here's your most played playlist from X amount of years ago.

• 1:11:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Or it was doing, uh, like, here's an artist you like, but a song from them you don't listen to.

• 1:11:30David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:30Andrew Manganelli?

  And I thought that was interesting. Like, that's a good way to bring some music in, but again, that's very user database.

• 1:11:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Andrew Manganelli?

  And I don't, I agree with Ellis, I don't necessarily know if they all mesh together. I think this request thing, though, I'm hoping can be like, play me, I just, all I've thought of was the Android thing the other day of like, make me a playlist for a 10-minute one-mile run, which is just-

• 1:11:53David Imel?

  Two songs.

• 1:11:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, two songs. But anyways, but like, play me music that's like more low-key, or maybe something that's more upbeat for pump up because I'm going to play an Ultimate Frisbee game. I'm hoping it can bring that better.

• 1:12:05Speaker 05

  I just want to say also, like, I do think this works- On YouTube because for two reasons. One, we're still in the Wild West of YouTube, right? There's no like, there's no for sure way that you know how to classify a YouTube video and assign traits to a YouTube video. And the, the things we get out of YouTube videos are very different than music. With music, we have like 300 years of academic data on like how we can describe music and classify music and assign traits to music. And a strong curator can use that 300 years of data to make really insightful and moving and cool recommendations. And so I think the idea of just throwing all of that away for retention maxing is like,

• 1:12:50Speaker 05

  what's the point?

• 1:12:51David Imel?

  I will say, so something that Spotify has created over time is basically these smaller artists that will now tour with each other because they know that when you listen to a certain artist on Spotify, it will recommend you another artist that is like similar in the user data metric of like, oh, people who liked this artist also liked this artist. The problem with it is that it's a circle. It's a flat circle of like six artists. So in 2017, I was like listening to Cake and then I got, then I got recommended Lawrence and then I got recommended like a couple of other artists, but they only recommend each other. It goes in a circle where they only recommend each other. It never peaks out of that like contained bubble.

• 1:13:35David Imel?

  And this has worked for Spotify because then they introduced these features where it's like artists near me and it can recommend shows that are playing. I'm sure that they're getting a kickback from that, right? And so it created this kind of micro market where they can tour artists together that maybe wouldn't have enough of an audience on their own, but because people that like that artist, like other artists, they have more incentive to go to these shows. That's a kind of cool thing, but it doesn't peak out of the bubble. So now it's like the artists that I'm listening to are the same artists I was listening, that I discovered in 2017 off of that one off thing that Spotify helped me with. But I want to keep learning about more music.

• 1:14:13Speaker 05

  And then it also, it creates. And then it also creates an issue in like the economy of it all, right?

• 1:14:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Speaker 05

  Because on YouTube, when a user clicks on a video, in theory, there is money waiting in escrow that a corporation has put forward into the AdSense auction.

• 1:14:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Speaker 05

  Is going to go to that creator, right?

• 1:14:33David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:14:34Speaker 05

  The Spotify platform, where there is a bulk of money that is then divided amongst all the streams, there's only so much pie each artist, only so many shares of the pie each artist can get. And when there's no data to explain why something was recommended to you, there is nothing to stop payola.

• 1:14:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:52Speaker 05

  Right? There's literally no way we could stop it.

• 1:14:54David Imel?

  Which is why Espresso was the song of the summer.

• 1:14:57Speaker 05

  Oh, we're not gonna, we're not gonna get into conspiracy theories.

• 1:15:00David Imel?

  Listen to the Today Explained episode on it.

• 1:15:02Speaker 05

  But also, or it's like, it's, anyway, I think it creates all these issues. I think it's not, it becomes not about music and just about retention maxing. And so, yeah, Spotify, Spotify DJ Xavier, I'm sure you're a lovely guy, but the robot incarnate of you, I really am not a fan of.

• 1:15:18Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, because everything you said there about retention maxing, Spotify's like,

• 1:15:22David Imel?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:15:22Andrew Manganelli?

  working perfectly.

• 1:15:24David Imel?

  Working as intended.

• 1:15:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Thanks for the greatest compliment, Ellis.

• 1:15:26David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, it's also why they're making the AI-generated playlists and songs and stuff, so they don't have to pay out anybody, but.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think there's like levels to how much you can randomize. Like, music discovery is ideal. You were saying like it's a flat circle, so there's no way out of the circle.

• 1:15:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  There's also no way into the circle. Like, if you listen to other stuff, you're not gonna get recommended into that circle.

• 1:15:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  But I do think, in general, people want to be recommended some extra music outside of their current bubble.

• 1:15:52David Imel?

  For sure.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  And if you just, literally, I'm feeling lucky, all of music, you're gonna get random crap that you don't care about.

• 1:15:59David Imel?

  Yeah, there's a lot.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  So the whole idea is how does Spotify find just the right mix of things that are just a little bit outside your bubble that it can bring you into and start to expand your horizons? And pure shuffle wouldn't do it, but I think the AI DJ is a little bit better than just my own music.

• 1:16:16David Imel?

  Well, I also imagine that like all of those metrics that Ellis was talking about earlier, like music can be defined as a gradient, right? Because you could have all of these characteristics of different bands and different songs. And if you've got a band and song that's very close in most characteristics, but has one or two different, you could slowly transition a user to an artist they've never heard of before that has very similar style and characteristics. That's what I would love.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  So on my ridiculously long road trip, I had several instances of, oh, my God, I think I've run out of all of the music. Because I've just listened to all of music. It's been 12 hours and what am I still doing here? I think I've heard every song. And so if I go in and I think I randomly just went in, just give me greatest hits by Michael Jackson. So I typed in Michael Jackson and went to his artist page and started with the first one and just let it go. And once you get past the top 10, then it starts shuffling in others that are other Michael Jackson songs or other hits from related artists to Michael Jackson. And it starts moving. And that's not the AI DJ, but that's the same type of behavior I'm looking for, which is take my music library, shuffle that a bit, but also once in a while poke out of the bubble a little bit and give me some new stuff.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  So I plan on asking the AI DJ for all kinds of random genres and beats for next time I'm driving.

• 1:17:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I think AI DJ is just, it's like their new smart playlist at this point. Calling it a DJ like makes it a little more personal and feel more like AI. But I really just feel like they fixed their playlist because I've never loved their playlist. Because it's either so short that, like you said, it starts bringing in other stuff or it's so long that I feel like all listen to the same songs and never get to the half of the other songs that are in my playlist.

• 1:17:54David Imel?

  Well, people have different opinions on this and it can be good or bad. But I created something many moons ago that is much better than this. You can just go to bangersonly.net and you'll get all the best music. That's all you need to do.

• 1:18:07Speaker 04

  Good plug.

• 1:18:07David Imel?

  Still hosting. We're still streaming 24/7.

• 1:18:11Speaker 04

  Can I say my call with Spotify DJ? He gets stuck in loops where if you only exclusively listen to Spotify DJ, he'll just keep giving you the same exact playlist over and over.

• 1:18:21David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, true.

• 1:18:23Speaker 04

  And he needs to figure it out because I asked him for my Brat Summer playlist and he played me the Brat's Dolls movie. So that's all I want to say.

• 1:18:31David Imel?

  The most Siri thing ever.

• 1:18:33Speaker 04

  So work on it a little bit.

• 1:18:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Was that a request you did or?

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  A DJ request?

• 1:18:37Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:18:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 1:18:38Speaker 04

  I said Brat Summer and he said Brat's Dolls, you won it. So.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  I guess that's a tough.

• 1:18:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you listen? Did you listen to the song?

• 1:18:47Speaker 04

  To the Bratz?

• 1:18:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:48David Imel?

  Bratz movie.

• 1:18:49Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, I did.

• 1:18:50Andrew Manganelli?

  You did?

• 1:18:51David Imel?

  Soundtrack?

• 1:18:51Speaker 04

  It was kinda good, I'm not gonna watch it. I mean.

• 1:18:54Andrew Manganelli?

  That sounds, that sounds like a win.

• 1:18:56David Imel?

  By the black eyes.

• 1:18:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounds kind of like an old DJ where you have a crappy cellphone connection, you waited on hold for 10 minutes, asked them for their request, they didn't hear you correctly, and played something completely different in it.

• 1:19:06David Imel?

  Could happen. I think this is a perfect place.

• 1:19:08Andrew Manganelli?

  For trivia?

• 1:19:08David Imel?

  To put the train back on the rails with some trivia.

• 1:19:13David Imel?

  Adam, Adam, Adam, Adam, Adam.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Alan.

• 1:19:16David Imel?

  Adam.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Alan.

• 1:19:18Speaker 05

  So, guys, question number one. The Google logo has always had six characters, except for one time between October of 98 and May of 99. Google's logo had seven characters during that period. What was the seventh character?

• 1:19:38Speaker 05

  Look at those working lights. Look at them, look at them go. Look at them.

• 1:19:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't you dare.

• 1:19:47David Imel?

  Hot Goblin strikes again.

• 1:19:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Hot, oh, yeah, he's the hot Goblin.

• 1:19:50David Imel?

  Also, this is the market that doesn't work.

• 1:19:52Andrew Manganelli?

  At all?

• 1:19:53David Imel?

  Oh, do you want? It works barely.

• 1:19:57Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll throw that one out.

• 1:19:57David Imel?

  Is it illegible? Kind of.

• 1:19:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright. Do you want to use this one?

• 1:20:01David Imel?

  Yeah, it's okay. Alright.

• 1:20:04Speaker 05

  Alright, boys, flip those boards around and read.

• 1:20:07David Imel?

  Ah, I.

• 1:20:08Andrew Manganelli?

  No, we all said something different.

• 1:20:10Speaker 05

  Marquez, why don't you go first?

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  We all said different things. I said an extra O.

• 1:20:14David Imel?

  Oh, thank God. That was gonna be my guess.

• 1:20:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I said a period.

• 1:20:18David Imel?

  I said an exclamation point.

• 1:20:19Speaker 05

  That is correct. For that brief period, Google was what they said.

• 1:20:24David Imel?

  Yeah. That, no, the brief period, which is what an exclamation point is.

• 1:20:30Speaker 05

  Google having an extra O does sound kind of.

• 1:20:32Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, because when, well, I feel like.

• 1:20:35David Imel?

  At the bottom of the page, there's all of the, it has a bunch of extra Os, and the Os are just links to the other pages.

• 1:20:41Andrew Manganelli?

  We live in a time right now where no one's made it that far down the Google search.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been a while since you're at the bottom of the page, huh?

• 1:20:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Actually, do they even still do it?

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  They do.

• 1:20:51David Imel?

  Get on that point?

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Actually, no, they just infinite scroll now, don't they?

• 1:20:53Speaker 05

  Alright, guys, question number two.

• 1:20:55David Imel?

  Take down the website.

• 1:20:57Speaker 05

  Boring iPhones like the 17 Air get leaked via case websites. But which iPhone was accidentally left in a bar in Redwood City, California?

• 1:21:10David Imel?

  In which Tim Cook called the reporter and was like, we are going to sue the hell out of you. Sorry, not Tim Cook. Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs.

• 1:21:20Speaker 05

  What's the difference? I'm sorry.

• 1:21:22Andrew Manganelli?

  If you put Google with 42 O's in the URL, it doesn't bring you to Google. It brings you to a WordPress page that says something new is coming.

• 1:21:32Speaker 05

  Are they saving it for the Pixel 42?

• 1:21:38Speaker 05

  Alright guys, who would like to go first?

• 1:21:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Me.

• 1:21:41Speaker 05

  Andrew.

• 1:21:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Six. There we go.

• 1:21:45David Imel?

  'Twas the iPhone 4.

• 1:21:48Speaker 05

  It was indeed the iPhone 4.

• 1:21:49David Imel?

  All new design.

• 1:21:51Speaker 05

  David and one point for Marquez. Alright, guys. The scores for trivia right now are getting pretty crazy. I think we might need to extrav this pretty soon. Because Andrew, what's like the opposite of pole position? What is?

• 1:22:09Andrew Manganelli?

  DNF.

• 1:22:10Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:22:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh no, starting from the pits.

• 1:22:12Speaker 05

  You're gonna F, so don't worry.

• 1:22:15Speaker 05

  It means I'm out of lies to tell. I've told too many. DNF stands for did not finish. It's a racist thing.

• 1:22:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Also, I'm starting from the pits.

• 1:22:22Speaker 05

  There you go. Yeah, Andrew's starting from the pits. Also, just see, a chicane is not a basketball player. It's like an S-turn in a racetrack.

• 1:22:29David Imel?

  Chican O'Neil?

• 1:22:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. That's where they get the name from.

• 1:22:36Speaker 05

  I can't stop lying.

• 1:22:38David Imel?

  Shaq Fu.

• 1:22:39Speaker 05

  So Andrew, you are starting in the pits with 12 points.

• 1:22:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:45Speaker 05

  Pretty, you know, pretty competitive.

• 1:22:47David Imel?

  12's a good number though.

• 1:22:47Speaker 05

  Because Marquez is only one point ahead of you with 13. I'm just kidding. He has 23 points. He is 11 points ahead of you. And David is in first place with 28 points.

• 1:23:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Sheesh.

• 1:23:02Speaker 05

  28 points. So we're definitely gonna need to do some ginormous point offerings.

• 1:23:09Speaker 05

  And trivia extravaganza, which I'm still accepting ideas for how we want to do it.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Give me an opportunity, Ellis. I still haven't won any of them.

• 1:23:15Speaker 05

  Really? You've never won a season of trivia?

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  No, Mark has won twice and Andrew won once. Yeah. Well, you know, mathematically, we'll make it possible for anyone. Yeah.

• 1:23:24Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  Google lost once because it got negative.

• 1:23:27Speaker 05

  We'll just have like, we'll just have a 100 point section about the X-Pan and.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Hmm, sounds a little brave if you ask me, but thanks for watching and listening this week. We appreciate, well, my Google lit up. That was random. We appreciate you all for subscribing. And also if you have suggestions for what we should do with the trivia extravaganza, feel free to leave it in a comment. Next week is I-O week. It is, and many more things, of course. Feel free to request your Spotify AI DJ plays more waveform in between your hype tracks. It just starts a waveform episode.

• 1:23:59Andrew Manganelli?

  That is the hype track.

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  That is maybe the hype track. And then it plays the weird song that Ellis made to play every three songs. And then loops all three of those things. It'll be great.

• 1:24:07Speaker 05

  And then some, and then some gets in your car.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  And you have to drive them somewhere. See you next week. Peace. Goodbye.

• 1:24:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform is produced by Adam Alina, Ellis Rovin, and Mariah Zink, where you don't want to be part of it.

• 1:24:22Andrew Manganelli?

  She did everything.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  You said some words.

• 1:24:23Andrew Manganelli?

  And we're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our introductory music was created by Mariah Zink. Just kidding, Vane still.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  Dang, she's a music. Have you ever seen Vane still and Mariah Zink in the same room? Oh, shoo. Bingo.

• 1:24:48Speaker 05

  You guys want to hear the only Spanish language joke I know?

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Si.

• 1:24:53Speaker 05

  Que es in English? Pollo as chicken, pero re pollo no es re chicken.

• 1:25:05Speaker 00

  What will you Canva today? What will you brainstorm, collaborate on, present today? What will you resize, post, edit, imagine? What will you research, test, switch, and finally have the courage to pitch? You got this! What will you visualize, design, brand, animate, create, generate? What will you translate, pour your heart into, or have a laugh doing? Whatever you want to make is possible. So what will you Canva today?

• 1:25:35Speaker 08

  Support for today's episode comes from Delta, official airline of the National Women's Soccer League. Traveling is basically magic. It creates opportunities, it fosters understanding, it expands horizons, it connects people and communities to each other and to their own potential. Those are the values that drive Delta. With up to 5,500 daily Delta and Delta Connection flights to more than 300 destinations on six continents, Delta is committed to helping you explore your world. Whatever gives you the travel bug, Delta is here to help you get there. Visit delta.com for more info. Delta, wherever the journey takes you.