OnePlus is Dead… (In the US)

So much happened this week! First, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about everything from the new pickle emoji to OnePlus shutting down operations in the U. S. Then they get into all of the Pixel 11 color and pricing leaks before talking about Apple suing OpenAI. It all gets wrapped up with some show & tell where Marques demonstrates a new skill he learned. It's a fun one! Links: Jennifer Daniels Substack - New Emojis David Imel - How AI Stolen the Sparkle Emoji Waveform - History of CyanogenMod MKBHD - The Downfall of OnePlus MKBHD - What Happened to OnePlus Verge - google will allow third party app stores 9to5Google - Pixel 11 Leaks Droid Life - Pixel 11 price leaks Verge - Samsung Titanium Flex display Are Technics - OpenAI sued by Apple Bloomberg - Apple sues OpenAI Tom's Hardware - Codex AI Macropad xteink x4 ereader Typora app Dead eyes podcast This episode brought to you by: Framer: https://www.framer.com/wave Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/wave Follow us on socials: Marques: https://twitter.com/MKBHD Andrew: https://www.instagram.com/andrew_manganelli/ David: https://www.instagram.com/davidimel/ Adam: https://www.instagram.com/parmesanpapi17/ Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform: Twitter: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com. At the beginning of the new year, I decided I wanted to have a new year's resolution to learn a new skill. And I decided that that skill would be juggling. Oh, what? Beginning of the year, I bought a set of three juggling balls. How the [bleep] has none of us known this?

• 1:40David Imel?

  How did I never hear about this?

• 1:41Andrew Manganelli?

  We've talked about juggling at work before. Is that what spawned it?

• 1:44Speaker 01

  So, every day for the past six months, I've been juggling at the end of every day. And what I can report now is that I've gotten pretty good at juggling these exact three items, or items that are the same size and shape. So, like, three small oranges. Like hacky sack sized things. I will demo it for you. I would like to see.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  What is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.

• 2:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:16David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Big week. It is the middle of July and sometimes we get random big weeks in the middle of July. I think this will be a banger. It might be kind of a long episode, but that's okay because there's a lot to talk about. I think we can all agree probably the obvious biggest story of the week, which is

• 2:30David Imel?

  The new emojis are coming. There's new emoji, they're beautiful. There's a pickle.

• 2:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Right?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  I guess we, I guess we don't all agree on the biggest story. So we'll get to all that stuff. If you, if you slow it down and listen to all those things, you probably, you're in for a, for a good one.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  And at the end, we have a recommendation game because that's also one of the things that we planned on doing this week before we knew it would be banger. Uh, but first, did they even test this?

• 2:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Does anyone have one? Cause I have the most niche one possible.

• 3:00David Imel?

  People always like

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Thought I had one today, but I don't.

• 3:03David Imel?

  Ones at me and they're always bad.

• 3:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. Well, stop tweeting at David is what he's saying.

• 3:07David Imel?

  Stop talking to me. I don't want to talk to, I'm kidding.

• 3:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. My issue is with

• 3:12David Imel?

  Keep tweeting at me.

• 3:13Andrew Manganelli?

  G board.

• 3:14David Imel?

  If you're nice.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  The keyboard.

• 3:16Andrew Manganelli?

  And it's very specific to where a lot of times when I'm typing and I try and go comma, space. I accidentally hit emoji button, sticker button. And then when I go and type again, what I'm expecting, there's a bunch of sloth emojis. Or like sloth stickers, sorry.

• 3:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 3:34Andrew Manganelli?

  And for some reason I find once a day as I'm typing really fast without paying attention, I'm opening up and just posting a sloth sticker in my messages.

• 3:44David Imel?

  As God intended.

• 3:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Normally I notice it. One time I was emailing our HR person and said, just were like, yeah, that sounds great. And then sent a sticker of a sloth saying FML above it.

• 3:59Andrew Manganelli?

  So. I just want to know, does anyone else accidentally send a bunch of sloth stickers in when they're using Gboard?

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Accidentally? No. I intentionally use them all the time.

• 4:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Sloth stickers are awesome.

• 4:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe I need to just bring them into my... Yeah, it's this, it's just a sloth with a rained-on cloud saying FML on it.

• 4:18David Imel?

  They have the blobs as stickers, too. I would use those.

• 4:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 4:22David Imel?

  The blobs.

• 4:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm not a fan of the sloth ones. Sorry. But apparently I use them all the time.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  I will say, there was like a, this is slightly off tangent, but there was a Slack thread that I was going through from like a while back, like years ago, just cleaning out different old messages. And someone had used the blob and I was like, damn, that blob was a good...

• 4:40David Imel?

  The blobs are amazing. The blobs are fantastic. Yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, they're all sloths.

• 4:46Andrew Manganelli?

  All the sloths? You've never seen the sloths before?

• 4:48David Imel?

  Yeah, never seen those before.

• 4:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess I just typed too fast and...

• 4:51David Imel?

  I don't know, I Gboard sloths. That's crazy. Well, these aren't quite sloths and they're not quite stickers, but I knew that we would talk about my story first, just saying. There are new emoji coming, everybody. Everybody clap.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  It's happening. So what are these new emojis?

• 5:09David Imel?

  All right.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  For our audio listeners, you're gonna have to explain all of them.

• 5:13David Imel?

  Yeah, okay. So Jennifer Daniel, who is the chair of the Emoji Subcommittee of the Unicode Consortium.

• 5:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Holy job title.

• 5:21David Imel?

  I interviewed her for my Sparkle Emoji Documentary and she's awesome. She has a Substack where she sometimes posts like early looks at emoji that they're working on, which is cool. And she just yesterday posted a new article about the nine new emoji that are coming shortly.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Nine.

• 5:37David Imel?

  So we're getting Monarch Butterfly.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Classic.

• 5:41David Imel?

  There is currently a butterfly, but it's just like a blue butterfly. Monarchs are probably more, you know, common and popular in media, so I think that makes sense. We're getting a Bug Catching Net. Classic.

• 5:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Why does it have to be bug catching?

• 5:54David Imel?

  I mean, it doesn't have to be.

• 5:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just next to the butterfly, so it feels bug catching.

• 5:56David Imel?

  Well, it could be Pokemon catching. I'm just Pokemon pilled, is that what? They call it a bug catching net in Pokemon, so.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  That's a bug catching net. What are you gonna catch in that net? Like a jellyfish? Come on.

• 6:06David Imel?

  What about a big fish? Like a large fish?

• 6:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, you'd be swooping under. This one is, I think the reason it feels bug catching is because it's coming from up to down.

• 6:14David Imel?

  Yeah. However, these are just Google's interpretations, like Apple.

• 6:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I know. I'm using that for like, caught ya.

• 6:20David Imel?

  Yeah. Caught ya. There's a meteor.

• 6:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 6:25David Imel?

  I think that was pretty important.

• 6:26Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what this room's gonna feel like soon?

• 6:27David Imel?

  Yeah. There's the thumbs that basically imply get a load of this guy.

• 6:32Andrew Manganelli?

  The, it's like who's got two thumbs and is on a podcast?

• 6:36David Imel?

  And they're like pointed inwards or.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  One's the left thumb and one is the right thumb.

• 6:40David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  So there's two.

• 6:41David Imel?

  There's a face that is cracking, um, quite a bit. I like.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  Already my top 10 most used emojis of all time.

• 6:47David Imel?

  I very much like this one because I've used the melting face a lot. And then last year, they introduced the, um, the bug eye emoji as well. So I'm doing a lot of like funny face emojis, which are cool. There's a lighthouse, which is dope. I was just in Maine. Wait, what? Why?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  No, keep going, keep going.

• 7:07David Imel?

  Okay. Uh, there's pickle, which is good because they did have cucumber, which was being like diced, but now it's legit pickle, which I think is important.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  No way that gets misused.

• 7:21David Imel?

  There's a bar of.

• 7:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, hold on. What is this?

• 7:26David Imel?

  A pickle.

• 7:27Andrew Manganelli?

  No, the next one.

• 7:28David Imel?

  Oh, a bar of soap.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  That's clearly not a bar.

• 7:30Andrew Manganelli?

  That's an eraser.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  That's an eraser.

• 7:31David Imel?

  Really?

• 7:32Andrew Manganelli?

  That's very clearly an eraser.

• 7:33David Imel?

  It's only, okay. It's only clearly an eraser because there's bits of eraser.

• 7:38Andrew Manganelli?

  It's only clearly an eraser because of the part of it that makes it an eraser.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  It's pink.

• 7:41David Imel?

  Dude.

• 7:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It would be bubbly if it was soap, and there already is a soap one, isn't there?

• 7:45David Imel?

  My soap on my, at home and in my shower is not always bubbly.

• 7:48Andrew Manganelli?

  But that's what, all the, if there's a bubble emoji.

• 7:52David Imel?

  If. Why don't you say?

• 7:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, sorry.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Have we lost everyone under 30?

• 7:57David Imel?

  Why?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I don't think anyone uses emojis.

• 7:59David Imel?

  You are in.

• 8:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, really?

• 8:00David Imel?

  What are you talking about?

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Am I wrong about that?

• 8:02David Imel?

  You're wrong about that.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Everyone.

• 8:04Andrew Manganelli?

  What do they use?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Young.

• 8:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Genmoji?

• 8:06Speaker 01

  In the comments below, I just want you to comment how old you are and if you regularly use emojis in your conversations.

• 8:13David Imel?

  They're all gonna say yes.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Cause I've, I've, I've.

• 8:17David Imel?

  A clue that it might be not happening for younger people. Why wouldn't they use emoji? I don't know, it's cringy and old.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  They just use voice notes and Snapchat.

• 8:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, cause-

• 8:25David Imel?

  It's just lowercase text, man. They just use, they're just on FaceTime all the time.

• 8:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like we have a-

• 8:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:31Andrew Manganelli?

  My proof against you on this is we have a running joke in the office where whenever something gets posted that we don't like, one time someone put the skull and crossbones instead of just the skull. And then somebody got really mad at it, saying like, "Boomer, that's not the right one." So now we just use skull and crossbones for everything?

• 8:48David Imel?

  Miles, who's like 20 years old, called me "unk" for using skull and crossbones, instead of just the skull.

• 8:54Andrew Manganelli?

  So now we use skull and crossbones all the time? But the fact that we're getting schooled on what is the proper emo-

• 9:01David Imel?

  Yeah, use of emoji. Sure, sure, but I think an even younger generation may be- Like Gen Alpha? Yeah.

• 9:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll ask Lain when I get home.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Miles found out, Miles found out yesterday that I was 29 and he was so shocked, he was like, "Wait, so you're like, actually unk?" I was just, I was just kidding this whole time, but like, you're actually old?

• 9:17David Imel?

  Brother, we're like, we're in our 30s over here, okay?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Bro, they say if your age starts with a, if you're, the year you were born starts with a 1.

• 9:24David Imel?

  A 1?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  You're on-

• 9:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, cause-

• 9:26David Imel?

  Sure.

• 9:27Andrew Manganelli?

  For a while, we had the like, "Oh, when were you born? 2000 and, and?"

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:31David Imel?

  2000 and? Yeah, yeah. Someone, someone, um, DM'd me on Instagram the other day because I had posted a camera thing and they're like, "Wow, it's so crazy because I got into photography because of a photo you posted and now, and I was born in 2008." And I was like, "What?"

• 9:51David Imel?

  Wait, are you legally allowed to talk to me if you were born in 2008?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Lowkey, one of the things that happens that makes me feel the oldest is someone will, will come up to me and be like, "I've been watching your videos since I was like, 8 years old." And they're a full grown adult. I'm like, "Wait a second, hold on, I'm doing the math, this is, this is crazy."

• 10:08David Imel?

  You have been making videos more than half of your life?

• 10:10Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 10:11David Imel?

  And like, if you, if you're like, your conscious life, you know, your sentient life? It's like 3/4 of-

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Pretty much the whole time I've been awake.

• 10:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:20David Imel?

  I wake up, I make videos, I sleep.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true.

• 10:24David Imel?

  Anyway, very excited about these emojis. Speaking of Google, because Jennifer Daniel does work at Google. Google is going to begin carrying third-party app stores next week. Which is a pretty good deal next Wednesday. You might remember, this is the trial that keeps on giving. There was the Google versus Epic trial, which we tried to cover pretty broadly last year, or I guess it was two years ago now, because it happened in October of 2024. Google was ordered to carry other app stores inside of the Google Play Store for several years. And also, all these other app stores would need to have everything available in Google Play available in them as well. So this was like their way of settling this monopoly case.

• 11:08David Imel?

  Now, what was weird about this is after the trial happens and after the verdict comes down, they have to basically decide amongst themselves what the remedies for these things are. During this remedy period, the judge found out that Epic and Google had tried to secretly work things out amongst themselves for settlement. And Epic had agreed to buy $800 million of Google services in exchange for Epic helping promote Android, Google using Unreal Engine more deeply, and each company coordinating on product development, quote unquote. The judge was a little bit worried about this, specifically worried that it was a quid pro quo, and that Epic would still push for changes that would help other developers.

• 11:50David Imel?

  And they were a little bit worried that this would not help the antitrust case and that it seemed like a package deal. The problem with this is that Tim Sweeney, kind of the entire reason that he brought this case in the first place, is that his take was that Google was taking special deals from people and they were being unfair to developers. And Tim Sweeney said they would never take a special deal from gatekeepers such as Google based on principle.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Unless.

• 12:15David Imel?

  Unless it's $800 million.

• 12:19David Imel?

  So, yeah, well, I mean, Epic is the one paying Google $800 million, apparently, which is also weird, but apparently Google is just going to be promoting their stuff. The judge felt uneasy, but ultimately let it go through.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 12:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Same.

• 12:34David Imel?

  We love America.

• 12:37David Imel?

  Either way, it's gonna be really interesting to see what this ends up looking like in practice, because it should be launching on the 22nd, which is next Wednesday. We're gonna see other app stores inside of the Google Play Store, which is weird. So we'll probably see the Epic Store in there, we might see, Microsoft will launch, you know, their own Microsoft Store inside of the Play Store. But it is interesting that they have to offer everything that the Google Play Store offers. I think that's pretty weird.

• 13:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Is F-Droid not currently on the Play Store?

• 13:04David Imel?

  They have to sideload it.

• 13:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, interesting, so that should be there next week.

• 13:07David Imel?

  There's that, there's the guys that make Alt Store, which I think, I'm not sure if that's only on the iPhone or not, but Riley, Stout, and Co. I think will probably be launching some sort of alternative app store on the Google Play Store. So yeah, I don't know, I mean, if this, you know, if these other app stores take less than 30% of a cut, that would theoretically incentivize Google to lower their cut. At the same time, you have to download these other app stores through the Google Play Store, which is a little roundabout, yeah.

• 13:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Play Store's gonna be like Internet Explorer. Still super popular, because it's the default, but if anything else is good enough now, it will just be the thing that you download other browsers from.

• 13:47David Imel?

  That's true.

• 13:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it'll be fine.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  I thought you can't even get Internet Explorer, I thought it was Edge.

• 13:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It's Edge now. It's still Internet Explorer.

• 13:54David Imel?

  Welcome to Edge, we're so excited to have you, Chrome.

• 13:59David Imel?

  Give me Chrome. Wait, but... Download. You know, you know what you're here for. Give me Chrome. Yeah. All right, well, speaking of things that don't exist anymore.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 14:10Andrew Manganelli?

  In some regions.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, in some regions. Let's get to some heavier news, which is that OnePlus officially. Oh, nice timing.

• 14:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know why I actually was expecting a harmonica in Ellis's mouth. I mean, audio listeners.

• 14:23David Imel?

  Why not?

• 14:24Andrew Manganelli?

  He has a harmonica right now.

• 14:26David Imel?

  Right.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Officially, the news is OnePlus is shutting down operations in the US, North America, and Europe. We saw the writing on the wall. They kind of started slowing down. A bunch of future devices were discontinued. We thought we might get a new foldable canceled. We thought we might get a new flagship canceled. And now there will be no more new OnePlus phones for us. They will continue in Asia and India. They're actually pretty popular there still.

• 14:55David Imel?

  Nor devices especially.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  But I've been a OnePlus user for a long time here. And I will no longer be able to daily slash buy the devices here, which is very sad.

• 15:06David Imel?

  Yeah, one other thing is that they are going to be merging people over to Color OS.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  This is fascinating.

• 15:11David Imel?

  This is very funny because they had already done this. People got mad and then they just like changed the name back to Oxygen, but it was basically still Color OS.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  It changed. It was Oxygen OS was its own thing for such a long time for OnePlus phones. And I loved Oxygen OS. And then they did this hard pivot into Color OS and.

• 15:31David Imel?

  Also a great OS.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  It's fine. It's totally fine. It's just very different. And when people love Oxygen OS, that's very jarring to them. And so they just named it Oxygen OS again, but it's essentially the same thing.

• 15:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Uh, Oppo being the parent company to OnePlus. So now it will officially, uh, update and just become shamelessly Color OS again.

• 15:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, there's a long history with OnePlus, especially on, on this channel, on the MKB HD channel. I've talked about them since the OnePlus One. They've had so many interesting phones and twists and turns in their history. Uh, they felt like the enthusiast brand that showed up and, and was really disruptive for quite a while before they became the enemy that you either live long enough to see yourself come or die. Um, and so, yeah, they, they did now die.

• 16:19David Imel?

  Yeah, if you want to learn more about OnePlus history, I recommend that you go watch our CyanogenMod episode because we have a ton of OnePlus history in there.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  And then, go watch the downfall of OnePlus will be studied video.

• 16:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you even had an older-

• 16:33David Imel?

  We have a few videos like this.

• 16:34Andrew Manganelli?

  You have another OnePlus video.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  I've had, I've done various history of OnePlus videos in the past, but that's the latest one where I did get some comments saying, wow, this is way too early, they're not going away. But now that video has aged very well.

• 16:44Andrew Manganelli?

  What happened to OnePlus five years ago?

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, five years ago, what happened to OnePlus?

• 16:48David Imel?

  They really went through a lot of twists and turns. Like, they would, they would just be bad all of a sudden and their phones would not be good value. And then people get mad and eventually they'd come back and make a banger and then be, they'd be bad again. And yeah, eventually they just, I think Oppo Group just got tired of having to deal with those, that fanbase.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  I would like to give my top three OnePlus phones of all time.

• 17:09David Imel?

  Alright, let's do it.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  In no particular order.

• 17:13David Imel?

  Then it's-

• 17:14Speaker 01

  No particular order. Alright, fine, I'll do it, fine, fine, fine. I will do it in order, fine, okay.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Stand on business, Marquez.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Top three best OnePlus phones of all time. Number three, the OnePlus 15.

• 17:24David Imel?

  Oh.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  The OnePlus 15, which I'm still using, still dailying, with its unbelievable battery, incredible performance, total lack of bloat, very average cameras, and just the complete OnePlus experience right here. This is, this is the epitome of modern OnePlus, still pushing the boundaries and not too overpriced. Top three, OnePlus 15.

• 17:44David Imel?

  Okay.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Number two, the OnePlus 1. The Sandstone.

• 17:49David Imel?

  Sandstone.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  The hype factor, the price per dollar ratio.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  You could just say Sandstone three times.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Sandstone was pretty fire, but I actually think I dailyed the white one because the Sandstone kind of aged in its weird way. It was cool at first and then it was a little weird when it aged, but that had a whole lore with it from like how difficult it was to get. The invite system, all the things that were happening with OnePlus at the time, but the OnePlus 1, I'm putting it number two.

• 18:13David Imel?

  Can I guess your number one?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  You can probably guess it.

• 18:16David Imel?

  Is it the 7T?

• 18:17Speaker 01

  It's the 7 Pro.

• 18:17Andrew Manganelli?

  7T Pro.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  There's a whole cluster of them in there, but I would put like, yeah, the 7T Pro McLaren Edition is the best of these. But right around that year, we had the 7 Pro and then the 7T. And 7T Pro came out. These phones, I think I could still use that phone today. Obviously, the camera is going to be much worse, but like those, the software experience was damn near perfect. It had very, it was early to high refresh rate displays, so they were some of the only 90 hertz, I believe, displays out there. Super, super smooth. The batteries lasted a long time. They also did this thing where they were approaching like 100% screen to body ratio on the front. And that was like a hype number people talked about at the time. So they threw the selfie camera and a little pop up camera.

• 18:59David Imel?

  That's fun.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  And that was kind of fun and it didn't seem to break very easily. So I like that.

• 19:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. One of ours got waterlogged because we tried opening it underwater.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Well, the one I was using, I never did that underwater and it didn't have any issues. It was, the battery lasted a long time, charged super fast.

• 19:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  All of the best parts of OnePlus, which is what had me recommending OnePlus phones to people, uh, were in the phones of that exact era. And yeah, I feel like that might be the phone.

• 19:29David Imel?

  If you look back at the last 10 to 15 years, I'm pretty sure the number one brand of smartphone that I've dailyed myself.

• 19:36Andrew Manganelli?

  LG.

• 19:37David Imel?

  Would be OnePlus. Yeah, the, the seven Pro series, you have bigger hands than me, but for me, it was a little too big. And it had a lot of ghost touching issues because the screen to body ratio was so high.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  It did waterfall it a little bit.

• 19:49David Imel?

  And it wrapped around the side and there were so many times I'd just be holding the phone and it would just be doing things on its own because it thought I was touching the side.

• 19:56Andrew Manganelli?

  That was a fun time of, we have to do screen to body ratio because it's a number and a marketing photo we can put up.

• 20:03David Imel?

  And it looked.

• 20:04Andrew Manganelli?

  We don't care how bad it screws up usability.

• 20:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Send it.

• 20:07David Imel?

  I like the 7T so much because it was like all the best things about the seven Pro, but it was cheaper. It was like $4.99.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:15David Imel?

  Had a flat screen. It was better in certain little ways. Um, yeah, I was obsessed with that one. I recommended it to everybody. I bought my dad one. That was a terrible mistake because after a long period of time, when the OS started randomly changing and it randomly changed the color OS, my dad just had a meltdown.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was always an enthusiast phone and it was, it was funny because people in real life would ask me like, what phone is that? And I'd say, oh, it's a OnePlus 7. And they go. But what? Who makes it? What are you talking about? And I'll say, oh, sorry. The company name is OnePlus.

• 20:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  And then it's the seven. So it's the OnePlus seven. And they'd be like, OK, so the eight, I guess? Yeah, sure, whatever, fine. So it was always a bit of an enthusiast phone. It was always a slightly, if you know, you know, brand. But yeah, man, people, I have friends that got these that were also in the know. So this is a good time.

• 21:03David Imel?

  I have a take that I want to mention about this that I'm also writing an article about, where I don't think that OnePlus and US carriers were ever going to work.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  They never got along. They never, ah, maybe there was a brief, wasn't there like a OnePlus 12 or something?

• 21:21David Imel?

  The 6T, sorry, no. Yeah, the 6T was the first phone on T-Mobile.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  OK.

• 21:29David Imel?

  And they made a big deal about it. And they launched on T-Mobile, and it was a whole thing. And then that lasted a few years. Verizon had OnePlus phones for the OnePlus 8 and the OnePlus 9. The most annoying thing about the OnePlus 8 was that if you bought it at T-Mobile, it was like one price. But if you bought it at Verizon, you had to buy it with the millimeter wave bands.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:48David Imel?

  And it added $100, which made it like not really a good value anymore. Anyway, my sort of like theory about US carriers and OnePlus is that like US carriers, because of the way they want to do the subsidies for you, where they slowly have you pay off the phone with your monthly bill, but then they sort of lock you into that 24 to 36 month pay period. They actually want you to buy more expensive phones. Because then if you leave the plan and if you go to another option, you still have to pay off the rest of the phone. So if you're paying $4 to T-Mobile every month for a, you know, a $1,400 iPhone, and as long as you're on that plan for 24 to 36 months,

• 22:32David Imel?

  it's like, oh, yeah, it's four bucks for a $1,400 iPhone. That's amazing. But as soon as you want to leave to like Visible or Verizon or something like, oh, you owe us a thousand dollars now.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:42David Imel?

  And it's sort of this chain. And so like carriers actually want you to buy more expensive phones because it keeps you on the plan longer. Whereas a $500 OnePlus phone, if you like, eventually they're like, hey, you owe us 400 bucks now. You're like, oh, okay, I guess.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, less incentive.

• 22:58David Imel?

  It's way less incentive.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is one of those things that I think we talk about once in a while in videos and maybe people who aren't from the US get kind of annoyed with it. But it's still true that here in the US, carriers still basically run like what phones people buy and what phones like sell the most.

• 23:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  So people go to their carrier to buy a new phone, most of the time.

• 23:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  So whatever phones get pushed by carriers gets sold the most. So whichever ones have the best deals who buddy up with those carriers will do the best. And so that's why you see the big companies in the US continue to do well because they have their deals with Verizon, AT&T, etc. And OnePlus was never one of those companies, at least here. So they never really got a ton of, they were probably like a fraction of a percent of market share here.

• 23:41David Imel?

  I saw some crazy statistic yesterday. There was a statistic that came out recently that three out of every four phones sold at US carriers were iPhones, 75%.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Sheesh.

• 23:51David Imel?

  And there was a statistic from 2020, which was two years after the OnePlus launched in T-Mobile stores, that the like 92% of all phones sold at carriers were either Apple phones or Samsung phones. So OnePlus was fighting for that 8%.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Fighting for the last 8%.

• 24:10David Imel?

  Against Motorola and like Google Pixel and all these other.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:14David Imel?

  It was not, not good for them. So you can see why they pulled out.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  This whole thing makes our previous time talking about this really, really funny because there was that really weird article like,

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Like OnePlus is going out of business. And then OnePlus of India was like, we're not going anywhere.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  We said that. Like I went back and looked at our thing is that was like the AI written article that was, everyone agreed that like, it made sense, but it just said exclusive and it was a complete opinion piece.

• 24:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Written, helped by AI. So no one took it seriously. But yes, but then.

• 24:51Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, what's funny is OnePlus of India was like, we're not going anywhere.

• 24:54David Imel?

  Because they're not.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. And the rest of OnePlus was like.

• 24:58Andrew Manganelli?

  We specifically said that. We were like, yeah, this is OnePlus India saying they're not going anywhere. But like, the big thing, the general gist of this article is like, Oppo is winding down some things in different regions because there's too much going on in the Oppo parent company, which makes sense. Like, why not take away the regions you're selling the worst in and just make better Oppo phones? Especially with the prices of everything now, less SKUs is better for you.

• 25:23David Imel?

  Value for money is still the most important thing in India and in the US, we just don't care because of this carrier plans.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't have nearly as much hardware competition, which is a real bummer.

• 25:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:32David Imel?

  Very bummer.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 25:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  OnePlus, no more here.

• 25:35David Imel?

  No more, RIP.

• 25:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think we'll get Oppo in the US?

• 25:39David Imel?

  No, absolutely not.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  You just... Tom, I don't think so. And the Oppo Find X9 Ultra is like, one of the best phones in the world. And I would probably be using that phone if I could use it in the US.

• 25:51David Imel?

  Especially the way the US government feels about Chinese companies right now, like DJI just got banned. Honestly, OnePlus was sort of their Trojan horse into the US in general.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 25:59David Imel?

  You know?

• 26:00Speaker 01

  And it just never, they never did the things they had to do to make it work.

• 26:03David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, it's just not compatible with their brand ethos.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:07David Imel?

  But there is a company that is in the United States that is launching a phone in a month.

• 26:12Andrew Manganelli?

  That also has really small market share?

• 26:14David Imel?

  That also has really small market share. I know, we get all excited all the time when the Pixel gains market share. There was like, one quarter where they were 7% of sales and we're like, it's going, it's going. And I looked at a chart yesterday, almost every quarter, they have 3 to 2, 2 to 3% of sales. There was one quarter where they randomly got 7 and it was the month the new Pixel came out.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:33David Imel?

  So, they're still not doing great. That's Google, baby. That's Google.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  But maybe this one will change it.

• 26:38David Imel?

  You know why it'll change it? Because the new colors are fire.

• 26:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, let's...

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Well, we'll talk about it all. Okay. Pixel 11. We actually just complimented Pixel 11 on not leaking as much as we thought it would, like a week or two ago. And then, like, mere days after we'd said that, basically, everything's leaked. So, okay, yeah, now the Pixel 11, we kind of already know everything. From the new colors, the design, to the lack of a glow bar.

• 27:04David Imel?

  We don't know the camera features, though. There's that.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  True. We'll get some AI stuff, because software can't leak well it can, but it doesn't as much from these companies. But from what we see, the design looks essentially the same as we've seen for the past couple of years, but a new color, a set of colors, which seems nice. And then we get the spec sheets and the prices. So we'll get to that in a second. But what are the new colors, David? Because you're pumped about these.

• 27:28David Imel?

  Okay, well, so Andrew, you wrote this down.

• 27:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I wrote.

• 27:33David Imel?

  When you say there are like two colors for each color, what is that?

• 27:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 27:37David Imel?

  What's the deal? You tell me.

• 27:39Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the most confusing set of rumors and leaks I've ever read in my entire life. And writing out just the colors of this probably took me over an hour. Because the reason we have these leaks is an accidental Amazon listing. And the reason we kind of need to take that with a grain of salt is because even though it said it was from the Google Play Store on Amazon, with Amazon third-party sellers, like sometimes you can get something shipped by a third-party that still will say like the company name behind it. So like something can be shipped by third-party, like a Canon camera, but still might say Canon under Amazon. So we don't know exactly what this is. But the way things were listed is there was the original rumors of colors that we had, names. There was then the listed ones in the title of all these Amazon listings,

• 28:22Andrew Manganelli?

  associated with their code names, which seem to all match up. And then in the list, sometimes had different color names. So I'm going to tell you the colors with one or two potential names they might each have.

• 28:32David Imel?

  It's also possible that they give the distributors different names than the actual colors.

• 28:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Totally true. They might have literally found who accidentally did this, if that's the case. But so for the Pixel 11, we have Obsidian or Midnight Haze, which is like a black. We have Frost or Light Sterling, which is like a whitish, light, bluish tinty. Yeah, we have Hibiscus or Fuchsia, which is like a sick pink.

• 28:57David Imel?

  Hot ass pink.

• 28:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, hot but dark pink, I would say.

• 29:03David Imel?

  But isn't it hot pink dark?

• 29:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know. I would generally do it lighter than this is a, this is a hot pink saturation slider.

• 29:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:11Andrew Manganelli?

  100%.

• 29:12David Imel?

  For sure.

• 29:12Andrew Manganelli?

  And then export it and 100% again.

• 29:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Andrew Manganelli?

  And then green, which is either going to be called pistachio or moss.

• 29:18David Imel?

  I think it's, I hope it's pistachio. I like pistachios.

• 29:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna go towards moss.

• 29:23David Imel?

  It'll probably be.

• 29:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Or actually, I don't know, because then the green for the pros are also either a forest object or a food, which is the same as pistachio or moss. And then for the 11 Pro, we have another black, either midnight haze or obsidian. We have a light fog or sterling, so it's not the same, but very similar as the whitish, bluish color before.

• 29:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Dune, dune.

• 29:49David Imel?

  Dune is fire.

• 29:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Dune or canyon, which is like, this is now a light pink, almost orangey copper.

• 29:55David Imel?

  These colors are so good.

• 29:56Andrew Manganelli?

  They are really good. And then we have pine or olive as the green, which is a light.

• 30:02David Imel?

  So good.

• 30:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't even know how to.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  I hate all of them.

• 30:05Andrew Manganelli?

  These two are very similar, the greenish one.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  And that's it.

• 30:08David Imel?

  You're insane.

• 30:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate all of them.

• 30:10David Imel?

  You're insane.

• 30:10Andrew Manganelli?

  The pros are really good.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  The pros, the pro colors are fine.

• 30:13David Imel?

  The pros are better, for sure.

• 30:14Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I disagree.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  The non-pros are dookie.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Okay, this is what I, this is my actual thoughts.

• 30:19David Imel?

  You're ranking.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  They, all these camera, all these companies do this thing where they have like bright, fun, interesting colors for the non-pros, and then they have all these muted colors for the pros.

• 30:27David Imel?

  Not true.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  And then Apple kind of broke out of that with this orange Pro iPhone, which is crazy. And we're like, oh, maybe this is finally going to be the year of like interesting pro colors. But they're doing it again here. Google is, has this bright pink on the non-pro. They have these, a green, a light purple, and an obsidian that's not really black. And then the pros are like a muted version of all of them.

• 30:47David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  But give us like a bold pro, or give us a black. And they don't do either.

• 30:54David Imel?

  Well, it's almost black.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's why it's not black.

• 30:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a rat's sight.

• 30:59Speaker 04

  It's the purple regular 11, and only because it looks like Ellis's old Mini.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I mean, it does. Yeah, that's basically the same color as the 12 Mini. I really like the pro colors. I think the green is very like Pacific Northwest-y sort of adventure color.

• 31:14David Imel?

  I'll unfortunately never use a green phone.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  What about the dune?

• 31:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I like that color. The green's funny because you're right, the pros are the muted versions of the normal ones, except the green on the normal 11 is already like a muted green. So this is like, how do we mute this more? Oh, let's mute the logo.

• 31:31David Imel?

  It feels like a dark forest color. Yeah, it's interesting. They have no sort of pearlescent option this year. They've always gone like the white, like a

• 31:41Andrew Manganelli?

  The fog could

• 31:43David Imel?

  The light fog.

• 31:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that might wind up being a little pearlier than this.

• 31:48David Imel?

  Oh, I have another, I have another pet peeve. I have more beef. The non-pro phones, they always do the matte aluminum rails. And then the pro phones, they do the shiny like fingerprinty rails because it's pro and it's supposed to feel more premium. Didn't they flip that last year, though?

• 32:02David Imel?

  Maybe, but it looks like they're not, they're gonna do that again this time. The pros have the shiny rails and the non-pros have matte rails. And that is a bummer. That is a bummer.

• 32:10Speaker 04

  I'm glad they're doing colors, but maybe it's just a me thing, but I'm not a fan of any of these colors.

• 32:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Adam, hold up your phone.

• 32:17Andrew Manganelli?

  He's on an iPhone now. We can't trust him. He's a shill.

• 32:20David Imel?

  Silver iPhone.

• 32:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Also, real quick, the 11 Pro Fold colors are Obsidian, Midnight Haze, or Green. Yeah. Although I like the rails on this screen better. Is that the same? Maybe it is the same. You just see more of it because of the camera bump and the corners.

• 32:38David Imel?

  Last year, they did blue, right? For the color one?

• 32:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't remember.

• 32:42David Imel?

  I'm pretty sure they did. Yeah, um, for the color names, I'm pretty sure they're probably gonna go with Obsidian, Frost. Uh, these are names that they've used in the past, so I imagine that they will just stick with those names. Fog. And they, especially when the colors match the other accessories that they have, like the Pixel Band accessories and stuff, like the greenish one is called Fog, you know? I think that they just try to stick with that across the line. So I don't think they're gonna be changing the name significantly. Yeah. But.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Now, here's the slightly worse news. Uh, all the, all the specs and prices have also leaked from this. So if we are to believe these specs and prices, then what's happening is the base Pixel 11 will start now at double, 256 gigs, but it also now starts at $900.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  And goes up from there. So Pixel 11 Pro will start at 256 with 12 gigs of RAM. It will be $1,100. I mean, it's, they all have to get RAM. It's 12 gigs of RAM. It's not nothing, but 1,200 or 1,100 for Pixel 11 Pro. And 1,300 for the 11 Pro XL. Wow. $1,300 for a Pixel.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  I thought Google just got 800 million dollars from Epic Games. Why are they charging them that much?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  The rest of the specs do appear to be pretty much in line with last year. Batteries get a tiny bit of a bump, like 13 megapixel front camera is the same.

• 34:04Andrew Manganelli?

  No, it's not. It was a, the Pro had a 42 megapixel front facing camera.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 34:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Pixel 10 Pro.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  It was higher resolution.

• 34:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Had a nice front facing camera and now, yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  And they made a big deal about it.

• 34:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm-hmm. And now they made it worse.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Now, these are leak specs. We're not totally sure this is correct. 120 Hz OLEDs across the board, similar sizes. And then the Pro phone will start at $1,900.

• 34:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Pro Fold.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Pro Fold, sorry. Will start at $1,900 and.

• 34:33David Imel?

  $1,900?

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:36David Imel?

  That's gonna look like a steal next to the Apple Fold.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  That's true. That's gonna be $24.99 plus.

• 34:41Andrew Manganelli?

  A couple of funny things. The Pixel 11 has a better battery than the Pixel 11 Pro.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the selfie cameras are worse. The, and yeah, these, these prices are, you know,

• 34:54Andrew Manganelli?

  last year they had the chance to make things right. And this year, obviously there are RAM things, but I'm not going to let them use that as an excuse because $900 for a 256 base is wild. It's dumb.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 35:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's awful. I, but the iPhone at least last year got to be like, we cared about you guys for a little bit. Pixel just spit in your face.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  On the 11 Pro versus 11, it's $200 more. Are you just getting the tele lens and that's it? You're, that's typically the only difference. Yeah. Which is why I keep saying like, it's hard to sell people on that.

• 35:26Andrew Manganelli?

  And I'm.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  It's the same size.

• 35:28David Imel?

  Something else too.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Often it's like a brighter display and like a couple of other small like HDR related things that are like small tweaks for the Pro.

• 35:34David Imel?

  Brighter display, yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's a slightly smaller battery because you have slightly more camera. So.

• 35:38David Imel?

  This leak though says that the 11 Pro is lighter than the 11, which is very weird.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Less battery.

• 35:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Could be the materials.

• 35:45David Imel?

  Battery, materials.

• 35:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah, less battery.

• 35:47David Imel?

  Less battery, yeah, but not by a lot. How much does 100 million of ours weigh?

• 35:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, if we're talking about inside of a phone, it's probably one of the more dense things.

• 35:55David Imel?

  That's just, they're just electrons. They can't weigh that much.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  The things we don't know about the Pixel are how good is the new tensor chip? And what sort of new features will that unlock? That is kind of the only way that I think that they can sell me on these phones being like substantially new in any way.

• 36:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't have the leak and I can tell you that already. Not much better and something that will be available on all the other Pixels three months after.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have had this optimism before for Pixels and it has not worked out for me.

• 36:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  So I am, I'm not going to cross my fingers or hold my breath, but that is the thing that we don't know yet is what are they going to show on stage? Oh, Tensor has more TPU, more AI features, more stuff that you can't do on the previous phones until six months later. We'll see, but that's what we don't know.

• 36:37David Imel?

  I did see a report that the new, the new Gemma model is like being optimized for Tensor on the Pixel 10 and above. So it's possible they have more TPU accelerators, stuff like that. But as far as what actual features this makes better, whether or not it's, you know, Google Photos features or whatever. And then it'll probably, yeah, just all go to the cloud and everyone will have it in three months. Well.

• 37:02Andrew Manganelli?

  This feels like if you upgrade from a Pixel 10 Pro to a Pixel 11 Pro, you get a worse phone.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Pixel 10 Pro to 11 Pro.

• 37:10Andrew Manganelli?

  The selfie cameras.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Phone?

• 37:11Andrew Manganelli?

  But who's worse?

• 37:12David Imel?

  Upgrading from a 10 Pro to an 11 Pro.

• 37:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Possibly, but then why wouldn't you upgrade from a Pixel 9 Pro to a Pixel 10 Pro? That's you like cheaper and on sale.

• 37:23David Imel?

  That's probably the better move.

• 37:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, this is, I mean, maybe there's some other stuff we don't know, but usually the stuff we don't know is software features that go to another phone later anyways.

• 37:31David Imel?

  Yeah, very curious. Well, there's a new Samsung Flex Titanium Display Technology that is apparently allegedly going to be used in the Fold A and the Fold 8 Ultra.

• 37:44David Imel?

  In previous Samsung Galaxy Folds, they have used a plastic backing material against the OLED. And they have reportedly developed a new Flex. Titanium, which swaps the plastic support stack that used to be under the OLED panel with a new titanium alloy film, which Samsung is claiming has about 20 times the mechanical stiffness of the old polymer.

• 38:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, what does this do?

• 38:08David Imel?

  So, there's a couple of things it does.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess I'm assuming this is basically ideally going to bring the hinge creaselessness of whatever new fold comes out up to the level of what we just saw with, I want to get the name right, the Opal Find N6, is that what it's called?

• 38:25David Imel?

  The fold?

• 38:26Speaker 01

  I don't know. The best foldable, peak foldable, Find N6, which we've seen that one, it's like a super impressive lack of a hinge crease when you're actually using it. So it's beautiful. And Samsung's now, we look at it side by side and we're like, oh, Samsung actually does still have a crease. So they have essentially directly responded to it by also doing the same thing, putting metal right behind that little crease and flattening it out.

• 38:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Hopefully it works.

• 38:51David Imel?

  It's supposed to make it a lot stronger too. I will say, almost everyone I know who has a flip, after about a year to a year and a half, the crease in the center cracks. So, apparently this should not crack, theoretically, hopefully, on God for real this time. And yeah, it's supposed to be a lot more flat and stable. Right now, when the, when you unfold it, there's like a little dip in the center and that's just because the plastic support cannot actually like, it's not stiff enough to keep it flat. This is supposed to be much more stiff. Also, because they are using this material now, they don't have to put reinforcement layers on the display, which means that there are less layers between the OLED and your eyes. So they say

• 39:36David Imel?

  that they don't have to put as much power in order to achieve the same brightness because there is less diffusion happening on top of the OLED.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Great.

• 39:44David Imel?

  How much power that actually saves, I'm not totally sure. This could just be their marketing spin.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  But any little, it's like an electric car, like any little efficiency improvement will take it because these phones don't have the biggest batteries.

• 39:54David Imel?

  For sure. Yeah, for sure. So we should be seeing that, um, yeah, next time, the next podcast, we'll be talking exactly about these things. We'll know everything about them, so.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 40:02David Imel?

  Everything.

• 40:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Everything.

• 40:05David Imel?

  Yes.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:06David Imel?

  Yes.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  The next podcast, we'll be doing a game show.

• 40:08David Imel?

  Oh, oh, yeah.

• 40:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, where we talk about everything from Samsung. Right?

• 40:13David Imel?

  A day early.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. The next podcast is Trivia Extravaganza.

• 40:17David Imel?

  That's right, baby.

• 40:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Finally.

• 40:19David Imel?

  Finally.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Finally.

• 40:20David Imel?

  Finally. And then the next, next podcast will be everything.

• 40:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It's Trivia Extravaganza 2.

• 40:25David Imel?

  Electric Boogaloo.

• 40:26Speaker 04

  The Trivining.

• 40:27David Imel?

  The Trivining. Yeah, so, um, well, the next real, regular, well, not real, the next regular scheduled show you'll be hearing.

• 40:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow, tell us how you really feel, baby.

• 40:36David Imel?

  Okay, it's only real.

• 40:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Minus five points.

• 40:38David Imel?

  If I win, okay.

• 40:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I think what he's trying to say is everyone should hit the subscribe button to know when

• 40:42David Imel?

  That's true.

• 40:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Both of those podcasts are out.

• 40:44David Imel?

  That's true. You want to know. You just want to click. Uh, yeah, so that should be interesting and exciting. We are gonna learn more about that next week. Speaking of learning more about things, you know, that always happens when we do trivia. See what I did there?

• 41:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, I try and forget all the ones I get wrong because they just make me mad instead.

• 41:06David Imel?

  True.

• 41:06Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a lot.

• 41:07David Imel?

  You learn temporarily.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Pete Lau, who founded OnePlus?

• 41:11David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Okay, I wasn't sure if he was the OG guy or if he came on later. But anyway, Pete Lau, when describing his aspirations for OnePlus all the way back in 2014, 12 years ago, said that he wanted OnePlus to be which Japanese minimalist home goods brand but for the tech industry?

• 41:30David Imel?

  I feel like I learned, I read this recently. What did he say? He wanted OnePlus to be some...

• 41:37Speaker 03

  He said he wanted it to be the blank of the tech industry.

• 41:40David Imel?

  Fuji Farm.

• 41:41Speaker 03

  And it's a Japanese minimalist home goods store known for not putting their logo on any of their products.

• 41:49David Imel?

  World market.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Trader Joe's.

• 41:54David Imel?

  Well, like we said, we will either get the answers right or we will learn something new. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

• 42:10Speaker 01

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• 42:55Speaker 01

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• 43:36Speaker 01

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• 44:18Speaker 01

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• 45:00Speaker 01

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• 45:20Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, welcome back. This is my fourth time trying to get us back into the episode, but Apple's suing OpenAI, and that's fun. And they're doing it for stealing trade secrets. And the more you read about it-

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

• 45:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Allegedly, allegedly, but the alleged stories are very funny, so we're going to tell you some of them. We just posted a skit to the main channel called "Apple's Winning the AI Race." And at the end, we kind of posed this question of, what do you think is more likely? Do you think Apple will create good enough AI to make people stick with the iPhone if people are looking for AIs? Or do you think someone like an AI company will make a good enough piece of hardware, like a phone, to make people switch off of iPhones?

• 45:56Speaker 01

  The first one.

• 45:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I agree, but apparently OpenAI didn't. And their best thought was, well, let's just steal the iPhone.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  That's dead.

• 46:04Andrew Manganelli?

  In a suit filed last week, the iPhone maker alleges that OpenAI asked former Apple employees, even potential recruits, to bring information about unreleased products. They also are claiming that OpenAI instructed hires on how to evade security procedures. I'll get to that in a second.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  That's a really funny image, though, of someone being like, hey, your interview with OpenAI is tomorrow. Oh, what do they tell you to bring? Uh, bring my resume, bring trade secrets from Apple.

• 46:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you, did you read the rest of what I wrote? Because you're, it's worse somehow.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, everything I'm going to do here is basically-

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Allegedly.

• 46:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Just, well, yes, allegedly, but things I pulled from, there's a Bloomberg article, there's an Ars Technica article, everyone covered this, I'm just going to tell you some of the things that OpenAI is allegedly doing. Because some of them are wild. So, one of the crazier things I read is that Tang Yu Tan, a former Apple VP of the iPhone and Apple Watch product design.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  He's over 29 years, by the way.

• 47:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep, he is now the Chief Hardware Officer at OpenAI. He, I mean, like, first of all, you can swap, tech swaps jobs all the time. We're all used to that. But, in the suit, it's alleging that.

• 47:14Speaker 04

  Is it a three-piece suit?

• 47:17Speaker 03

  This man became the Chief Hardware Officer at a company that makes no hardware.

• 47:21Andrew Manganelli?

  While they're working on.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Apple's alleging that he took information about Apple suppliers to him with OpenAI, and encourages interviewees at OpenAI to divulge confidential company information. He has, quote, "directed job candidates still working for Apple to bring in actual parts from Apple to their interviews for show and tell sessions."

• 47:41Speaker 01

  What?

• 47:44Speaker 04

  Unrelated to the show and tell session we'll be doing later in this episode.

• 47:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, yeah.

• 47:49Andrew Manganelli?

  And then, yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  I'm bringing in trade secrets.

• 47:52Andrew Manganelli?

  No, not, I'm bringing in the physical products. He's relied on his insider knowledge, like, knowing Project's secret code names to have Apple employees in their interviews discuss unreleased products. He also has used internal, allegedly, used internal Apple documents to create a checklist to help departing Apple employees circumvent security measures while bringing those trade secrets.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Messy.

• 48:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Some of that is, the show and tell thing is hilarious.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  That show and tell thing is like a, it almost reads like an Onion article.

• 48:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. It is, I'm sure that there are, like, very specific things that Apple makes you sign to work there, and then, like, once you leave, like, you're not allowed to disclose a bunch of that stuff. But there also is probably a gray area that OpenAI is clearly going past, but there's probably a gray area of, like, well, the reason why OpenAI wants to hire you. You is because of your expertise in the places you work. That's how hiring works. But then they're just kind of being way more over the line about it where they're like, yeah, bring all the bring the folders from your desk at Apple when you come to work here. Like stuff like

• 49:01David Imel?

  OpenAI has has also hired over 400 people from Apple and they have gutted so many teams at Apple that they have had to completely rehire for different organizations because so many people left to OpenAI.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Here's a little inside baseball is like the number one most common pitch I see in my inbox for companies that think that they're about to get a bunch of investment is we have a bunch of people that came from Apple.

• 49:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  That is like the that's the the golden words that you need to be able to say.

• 49:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  To get people to be interested in your startup. Humane, like it's not new. This is not a new strategy.

• 49:36David Imel?

  Right.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  So, yes, inevitably, you're going to get a lot of people who are like poached from Apple to go to this new place because they're promised a way bigger role and the ability to like shape some crazy new thing. And you're taking a risk, but yeah, that is clearly over.

• 49:51David Imel?

  It's tricky because during the Biden administration, they put forward a bunch of legislation that made it so they could not stop. They could not make you sign agreements that say I cannot work at these tech companies.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Non compete.

• 50:05David Imel?

  Two years. Yeah, non competes basically. And they made it so they can't do that because then you're basically trapped at a corporation and then you can't have a job for two years, which is insane. But on the other side of that coin, it's like, even if you don't explicitly bring trade secrets, it's not like they can take the information out of your brain. You know what I mean? And it's very, very, very difficult to not.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:28David Imel?

  Use that similar information or similar knowledge.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  It's part of who you are. It's like, okay.

• 50:33David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  I mean, it depends. No, no, there's a difference between. I want to use the sports analogy for this one because it's helped me sympathize, not sympathize, but understand.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  When you are a unrestricted free agent from a

• 50:45David Imel?

  Is this basketball again?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Any sport, any team's sport.

• 50:48David Imel?

  Yeah, okay.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  There are players that play for some teams who've played against other teams. And one team will win the championship. And then the next year, they're a free agent. They just won the championship and a competing team might go, we would like to make a trade to get that guy because he's a good, because he's a good basketball player. But also because we know we're gonna have to beat that team again next year. And he knows all their plays. He knows the way they run and the way they're coached and all these secrets that they have. And I'm not gonna ask him outright to be like, hey, we want to trade for you. Like, are you gonna give us the playbook from your team? But it's, it kind of just comes with the package. Like, that's part of who you are as a basketball player.

• 51:28David Imel?

  He also wants to win.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's competitive.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  They brought in the actual thing.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  It's so different.

• 51:34David Imel?

  That's not what we're talking about.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying, that's not what we're talking about. Open eyes over the line, but in any, in any other like hiring situation, that that's, that's like part of the story of like who you're hiring.

• 51:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the better analogy here is like Formula One and being like, oh, Lewis Hamilton or Adrian Newey is up and we're gonna sign him at Aston Martin. He brings in a wealth of knowledge of developing the car.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:53Andrew Manganelli?

  That's something they can expect. This would be like Adrian Newey showing up with

• 51:56Speaker 01

  The blueprint.

• 51:57Andrew Manganelli?

  The, the front wing and being like, in his interview, like, this is what's helping us.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  It's like him driving to work on his first day in the old car, like.

• 52:06David Imel?

  Yeah, Apple is also alleging that Lou left Apple on January 22nd, 2026, never returned at least one company laptop. And he texted a former colleague still at Apple, writing, lol, I found out I can access the network storage. So funny. Her reply was, I'm ready.

• 52:25Andrew Manganelli?

  And then she left Apple and went to OpenAI after.

• 52:28David Imel?

  So.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 52:29David Imel?

  They do have some, they got some dirt, I'm gonna say.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, the text trails are.

• 52:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, he like used some bug through it and can still access, could still access the network storage while he was already working at OpenAI. It's

• 52:39David Imel?

  It's crazy.

• 52:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Some of this stuff is like a whole nother level of

• 52:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Andrew Manganelli?

  of not just like, oh, I have a bunch of experience from Apple to just like, I have the Apple thing.

• 52:49David Imel?

  I would like to remind everybody that currently on the iPhone, there is an OpenAI Ask ChatGPT immigration.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  You're supposed to be friends.

• 52:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Buddy buddy.

• 52:59David Imel?

  Really awkward.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, but then this morning, don't worry, everyone, we have a resolution to this already.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Really?

• 53:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, hold on. Where did I post this?

• 53:09Speaker 01

  I don't need more.

• 53:10Andrew Manganelli?

  OpenAI says it has seen no evidence supporting Apple's trade secret theft claims.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 53:14Andrew Manganelli?

  They've investigated themselves.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I've conducted-

• 53:17Andrew Manganelli?

  They find themselves totally innocent.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. An investigation and found nothing wrong.

• 53:20David Imel?

  Oh, that's crazy. Okay, well.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  This is ridiculous.

• 53:23David Imel?

  I guess they can just, they can just-

• 53:25Speaker 03

  This is a company that stole everything, being like, wait, we didn't take that.

• 53:29David Imel?

  We didn't take that, though. Yeah, we literally took everything, but we didn't-

• 53:33Andrew Manganelli?

  But guys, we already built so many things on the things we stole. Do you think we could just use it anyway?

• 53:38Speaker 03

  You remember that episode of Futurama where Bender walks around singing that song and goes, "I love stealing, I love taking things"? Exactly.

• 53:46David Imel?

  Yeah, out in the open, out in the open, baby. It's kind of like Suno, little tangent, but there was a report this morning. Suno got hacked and alt source code got leaked and alt source code is like YouTube tags and yeah, it's just-

• 53:58Andrew Manganelli?

  And genius.

• 53:59David Imel?

  And genius lyrics, which are also copyrighted. This is all stolen. Um, yeah, there's a lot going on there. This is gonna be a really fun lawsuit to watch play out.

• 54:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It's gonna be the more discovery there is, the more fun we are all going to have.

• 54:13David Imel?

  I can't wait for discovery.

• 54:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Ultimately, what's probably going to happen is it's going to take forever. OpenAI is probably gonna have to like, pause what they're doing hardware-wise and try and redo things as much as they can without looking like they're taking anything from Apple or else Apple's going to collapse.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  But that's the other thing is they kind of still do want to look like they're taking things from Apple.

• 54:34David Imel?

  They took Johnny Ive from Apple.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and Ferrari took Johnny Ive and was proudly like, this is the guy who did the Apple stuff, now he's with us. That makes it good, right? Like, that's, it's so, and yeah, it didn't work.

• 54:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Notice how he's still the former Apple guy, not the Luce creator?

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 04

  Okay, question. If you're hiring someone, like you're OpenAI and you're hiring someone for their knowledge of like a certain part of the market and their relationships and like, oh, I know these factories, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you hire them away from someone like Apple, how does that person then not just go back and use those same factories? Like, there's only so many factories you can use to build things.

• 55:12David Imel?

  I don't think China cares.

• 55:13Speaker 04

  No, but I mean-

• 55:15Andrew Manganelli?

  You're saying to use the factories?

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Like, to Marques's point, it's this guy's knowledge of these factories, like, oh, I know this one factory builds this thing. He has that knowledge no matter what, whether or not he's bringing in old iPhone parts or whatever, or new iPhone parts.

• 55:30David Imel?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't restrict knowledge. And this is the whole reason why these non-competes existed in the first place. But by non-competes existing, you're also basically locking people into a company. So it's kind of...

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Even two years later, I'm still gonna know that company exists.

• 55:44David Imel?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 55:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Knowing the factory doesn't mean you're gonna know how they're building everything in it. I mean, you could use it again, but then it would be the factory breaking trade secrets that they probably have some sort of contract in and how things are built and whatnot. Plus, chances are if you're going to the factory, Apple's using, Apple's probably using them at a pretty high capacity already.

• 56:02David Imel?

  Yeah. I mean, I remember getting a tour of the Pegatron factory.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Hilarious name.

• 56:08David Imel?

  And they were building the iPhone X there while I was there. And that's how that stuff gets leaked. It's like very, very simple.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  There is, there is difference between just like knowledge and like trade secrets, though. Like you can...

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Yes, but that's the gray area.

• 56:25Andrew Manganelli?

  They, it's out, if all these alleged things happened, we passed the gray area?

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  No, yeah, those things are past the gray area. But I think there is a gray area in knowledge that you had to do your job and trade secrets. And I'm sure Apple probably explicitly defines some things as secret and cannot be traded. But the things that aren't explicitly defined are just kind of like, oh, proprietary.

• 56:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you can be, you can have a, not have a non, uh, sorry, there's too many...

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Non.

• 56:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, too many abbreviations here. You can have a contract that doesn't involve a non-disclosure, but you could still probably have NDA things that you learned at the company that if it were to be, those things came out, you'd be breaking that contract. No? Yeah.

• 57:09David Imel?

  Just never open your mouth.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Here's another thing that happens a lot in my inbox is I'll get an email from someone who was working at one smartphone company or one car company or whatever and they go, "Hey, it's my last day at the job. Just wanted to say it was great working with you. Here's me passing you off to a new contact here." And then five minutes later, I'll get an email from the same person, "Hey, I'm now working at this company. Good to be in touch. Here's some stuff to just get our relationship started." So they are taking their contacts from one relationship that they had at one company to another one. Is that trade secrets? No. Is that part of the knowledge you have on the job? Kinda, yeah.

• 57:47David Imel?

  That's just how business works.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  That's why you got hired. You're a PR person who has those contacts. So yeah, it goes with you.

• 57:54David Imel?

  It goes with you. Well, funny enough, OpenAI-

• 57:57Andrew Manganelli?

  None of this is legal information or legal-

• 57:59David Imel?

  Legal advice.

• 57:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 58:00David Imel?

  Legal advice or financial advice. Funny, related to this, related to this, OpenAI, big, big report out of Bloomberg this week. OpenAI's first hardware device is reportedly a movable screenless speaker built as an AI companion.

• 58:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was an iPhone.

• 58:17David Imel?

  Not, that's not their first one. It will be their second, probably.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  This is actually really interesting.

• 58:22David Imel?

  You're actually allowed to.

• 58:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Why are we calling a movable? It's a Bluetooth speaker.

• 58:25David Imel?

  It's a Bluetooth speaker, but-

• 58:27Speaker 01

  But it's not Bluetooth.

• 58:28David Imel?

  It's not Bluetooth. It's probably Wi-Fi. They have, it has, anyway, I'll go through.

• 58:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Who cares?

• 58:34David Imel?

  So it's going to be a smart speaker that lives in your home and it will exist as a sort of companion that you'll be able to talk to casually, control other smart home devices, play media, respond to messages, and tap into the full range of capabilities offered by ChatGPT. It kind of sounds like the Sonos Rome speaker, their little portable speaker that you move around the house that both has Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. They, Gurman says that it will become, it will become more personalized and proactive as it grows to understand its owner over time. And it will use a more advanced version of the ChatGPT Live feature they just announced last week to communicate with users. It can listen and talk at the same time, adapt naturally to conversations, and quickly process information.

• 59:17David Imel?

  It's designed to stay in your home, but it will be extremely easy to move around different rooms. So if you like, take it to the washing machine room or something, if you live in a house and you're rich, unlike me. It's supposed to have, I don't have a laundry room, bro. The device is said to have mechanical elements that can move on their own to give the users a sense that the device is actually responding and is a bit more anthropomorphized.

• 59:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't love that.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  You mean like that Apple research paper they put out a few years ago?

• 59:43David Imel?

  Yes, just like that confidential trade secret paper. It will include a camera and other sensors to better understand its surroundings and context. Don't love that part. And reportedly, OpenAI is working on five different hardware devices, including the phone, but it plans to announce this one this year and probably release in 27. Though, because of this lawsuit, it's very possible this gets pushed by like a year.

• 1:00:07Andrew Manganelli?

  This might stay in, ah, who knows? I don't want a speaker that gets more proactive. That might be the worst feature I could think of on a thing that's constantly listening and looking at me all the time. I don't want it to...

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, you're right.

• 1:00:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That's crazy.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  You're right.

• 1:00:27David Imel?

  It's crazy that it would like get more adapted to you as a...

• 1:00:31Andrew Manganelli?

  They're using the word proactive, which makes me think it will start...

• 1:00:36David Imel?

  Prompting you because it knows...

• 1:00:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It will stop prompting me instead of me prompting it. Like, I don't want to walk by it and be like, yo, what's up? Weather's pretty nice out today, and I'm going to pick up the movable speaker and move it as far into the woods as possible.

• 1:00:48David Imel?

  You walk by and it just says, Andrew, design a web app that does this.

• 1:00:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna just toss it out the window. That sounds...

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Make no mistakes.

• 1:00:56David Imel?

  Make no mistake.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  All of these tech bro, like, there's so much discussion in the tech space right now about taste. And everyone, everyone thinks doing things with taste means doing things with like an Apple hardware finish, you know what I mean? Taste means not making a wife, a robot wife, in any capacity. I don't care if it's a dude, I don't care if it's a beautiful brushed aluminum speaker. Don't do it.

• 1:01:18David Imel?

  But you know Sam Altman's, Sam Altman is just trying to figure out as many ways as possible to get people to buy a ChatGPT subscription for life. Like, that's what he wants. He wants you to become attached to things, he wants you to just never want to unsubscribe to ChatGPT because you're basically killing your friend if you do this. That's what he wants you to do.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I think this is really interesting. And this is, this is kind of what came from that video that I just made, which was, do you think that Apple with the iPhone will make an AI good enough to keep you on the iPhone? Or do you think a hardware company, an AI company will come along and make hardware good enough to take you off of the iPhone? Every company is looking for what the next big thing is all the time. Yeah. The iPhone has been the big thing for a long time, which has everybody on edge looking for the next big thing. And it seems like AI is going to be related to this next big thing in some way. And so if you're a company that's either new or very heavily invested in AI and you think that there's a possibility that you can get someone to the next big thing that is not the iPhone, how do you make that? What is that thing?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Those are all unanswered questions. This is going to be one of the first big company attempts at the next big thing. And what they will absolutely not have is a way to connect it to the iPhone. And so they'll have to do everything on this device anticipating that it never connects to an iPhone. It'll have to connect to the internet on its own. It will have to listen to the user and move and connect to the ChatGPT service on its own. And if you want to have it do all the things that you were talking about that it's supposed to do, which is like play media, respond to messages and do all this other stuff, how does it do that without talking to your iPhone? That's really tricky. But if you, the second that you make it connect to the iPhone, you are dependent on the iPhone and it is therefore not the next big thing after the iPhone. Right.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  And that's the challenge that they're all after. We saw this fail many times. Think of the humane pin. Okay, we want to build the next big thing. What if it's a pin that sits on your chest and it has this little AI in it and you could talk to it and it listens to you, whatever? We all know that was a dumb idea and it was way too early and it was a bad product. But one of the things that it absolutely could not do was connect to the iPhone to get messages, to do any of the things we wanted it to do because the smartphone's so good. Right. So the challenge that that seems impossible, that is up against all these big companies and ChatGPT or OpenAI is going to try, is to make something that you are willing to use that never connects to your phone. And it's a really hard challenge and it's probably going to be a dumb, bad product. And we're

• 1:03:48David Imel?

  Way too early still, but that's the challenge ahead of them.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  That is exactly why specifically the line respond to messages perked my ears up.

• 1:03:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Because yeah, how are you going to do that? Does that mean that they're going to launch their own messaging service? Is that included in chat?

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  The exact issue humane.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Chat GPT messages or something? Cause if you're going to respond to iMessages, then you need to plug into the iPhone, which Apple will never let you do, even if you did hire Johnny Ive.

• 1:04:12David Imel?

  This is the main thing for me, like OpenAI is trying to build out an ecosystem of tasks and things that ChatGPT is able to do. None of these things have to do with other people, right? And you cannot get rid of the iPhone, you can't get rid of the phone without replacing the messaging ecosystem and the ability to talk to other people, work with other people in Slack, in messages. Most of the things that we do are on our phones are connect with other people digitally, whether it's social media, whether it's texting. OpenAI does not have that. So yes, you could probably make a bot that you talk to that is anthropomorphized, that you develop a relationship with, that you just sort of have conversations with, sure. But like replacing the iPhone is insane.

• 1:04:53David Imel?

  And I don't, I still don't know what they expect their phone to be, because if it's a phone, it's just going to be an Android phone. And like, sure, maybe it's optimized for ChatGPT in some way. And the reason they're doing that is because they want you to keep using the ChatGPT subscription until you die. But it's not going to replace the core fundamental features of what makes texting texting and what makes Slack Slack. Like, yeah, they're never going to get a critical mass to stop using the messages app.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:18David Imel?

  Insane.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  What I do see is the people on the bleeding edge, the tech bros, as we call them, who are like trying to turn these AI chatbots into useful tools and to have them do tasks for them or to be useful to them or whatever. And there are existing, I was just pulling it up because I think Johnny used one of these, Applaud, like a little note taking.

• 1:05:37David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Campaign, which is essentially just like a little handheld thing. Yeah. Which is like, it is just a little useful thing, which it can listen to the meetings that you're in and summarize it for you. Or it can listen to the notes that you talk to it and it can bring back that stuff later proactively when it thinks you want to hear that stuff again.

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  Marques was not paid to say that that time, but we haven't paid to say that.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Correct. Good disclosure. Good disclosure. But it's an example of. The thing that does not connect to your iPhone, but uses AI to try to be useful.

• 1:06:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  And the more big ambitions you have with this thing to be useful, the more you start to overlap with, oh, well, my phone can do that already. Or, oh, well, I think I'll, it's just easier to do that on my phone instead of like also getting a second device to do that. And that's where you're up against like, well, what do we make this thing do? Does it live alongside your iPhone like the AI pin tried to? Is it just like a thing I have in my pocket sometimes and I take it with me everywhere? Is it wearable? So it's on me all the time. This one, the first descriptions of it kind of sounded like a HomePod, like it was plugged into the wall, but it's clearly not. So it's like a battery powered thing. So you put it in your pocket with you.

• 1:06:37David Imel?

  I don't think it, no, no, no, you're not supposed to take it out of your home.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  It's out of your, it's in your home all the time. It never leaves.

• 1:06:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Bluetooth speaker.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  So, yeah, it's like a.

• 1:06:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Not just.

• 1:06:43David Imel?

  Wi-Fi.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Yes. So it is, it is interesting to see what their attempt of it will be. And then of course they will shower this with former Apple designers and lots of people who.

• 1:06:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe they didn't hire an Apple designer from HomePod because they maybe have a bunch of old casings from Sam Altman's stupid iOrb thing that he tried to sell a long time ago. They're still, for what?

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  Dude, prove you're a human, bro, and get rich off crypto.

• 1:07:08Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the original reason I thought Sam Altman was a loser, but this is.

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  A human, rich off crypto, being, you're, you're done.

• 1:07:15David Imel?

  For UBI, baby.

• 1:07:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Tell, tell me you couldn't see this orb thing being a little speaker with a camera sensor that would like talk to you.

• 1:07:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Like this, this is almost what I imagined it being.

• 1:07:27David Imel?

  That looks like a membrane.

• 1:07:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It would be so funny if this is what winds up being the hardware for, or something very similar to it.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  Say what you want, but I would be so happy to have a BB8. Just follow me around all day chatting with me.

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  Little BB8 guy from Star Wars. That thing's so cute.

• 1:07:40David Imel?

  So apparently they're working on five hardware devices right now, which is very interesting.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  I imagine one of them is planning to leave the house.

• 1:07:49David Imel?

  Probably headphones. Maybe.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  That can make sense, yeah.

• 1:07:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  We also, there's also like, Apple is going to be trying to work on things that compete too, because they're also constantly worried about what will beat the iPhone or be next. So like, AirPods with cameras, like random AI stuff, they're always working on stuff.

• 1:08:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:08:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll see.

• 1:08:08David Imel?

  I, uh, it's funny that, and I don't think Anthropic is gonna make hardware anytime soon. I think they're just cool doing the B to B thing.

• 1:08:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Aren't they releasing like a keyboard?

• 1:08:17David Imel?

  No, the, the WorkLouder keyboard is with OpenAI.

• 1:08:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Also.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  That was with OpenAI?

• 1:08:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, wait, just if I can rant on that, it's literally something that's been available forever.

• 1:08:27David Imel?

  Yeah, it's what is it?

• 1:08:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Macro. WorkLouder just makes a little macro pad, we've talked about WorkLouder here. They're an interesting company that makes a lot of stuff that goes on preorder and almost never gets actually sold. It's just a macro pad they've had forever and it says OpenAI on it. They've done it for Figma already, it's, I'm pretty sure it's the exact same thing.

• 1:08:43David Imel?

  Yeah, it's for Codex.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:08:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, okay. It's just like, whatever that can do, you can do with any amount of buttons that can plug into a USB port.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  The action button on my phone does that. I, I, I have a shortcut set, so when you press the action button, it does speech to text and then gives that to Claude. And it's just my, my Siri is now Claude button.

• 1:09:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Andrew Manganelli?

  A Steam could do whatever that is, it's, it's nothing.

• 1:09:08David Imel?

  Well, in a move that nobody, uh, saw coming except for everybody, Meta wants to make glasses that record all the time. They're rumored to be working on this always on pair of AI glasses that are

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Recording, not just, wow.

• 1:09:23David Imel?

  Constantly recording audio and snapping photos that you'll be able to ask Meta AI about later.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  The absolute cojones on this company is crazy.

• 1:09:33Andrew Manganelli?

  We gave them credit last week for like, working on the drilling out LED lights and then this week they said, "Hold my beer, I wanna make this even worse." They're like, they're working on a new pair of glasses that essentially would be recording audio and snapping photos every couple of seconds.

• 1:09:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Constantly.

• 1:09:52David Imel?

  So you can talk about it later.

• 1:09:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm-hmm, so you can ask Meta AI questions about it later, like a memory assistance, I guess? We've talked about this with other things, the, what was the?

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  Double memory pickle thing. They claim that it wouldn't be quote stored on stored by meta and users wouldn't be able to access it. It would just be they would be pulling the metadata from it and then you would be able to prompt into it.

• 1:10:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Sure, guys.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  But they're also not sure if they're going to use it to train their AI models, which definitely means they're 100% going to find a way that they can train from their AI models on it. They we already saw them do that.

• 1:10:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Is this not exactly what we were talking about with the AirPods with cameras?

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Uh, I wasn't here for that.

• 1:10:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't I don't think the AirPods with cameras are going to be recording all the time, but.

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  Well, they okay. So recording, I think that's a weird misnomer in the title. It's not recording, but it is. So the here's what the rumor was for the AirPods. It was there was going to be cameras in the stems of the AirPods.

• 1:10:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Right.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  And there are low resolution cameras that are never recording video, but are always recording some low resolution map of whatever, which is like kind of still video.

• 1:10:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Was that the rumor?

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  But it would be. Yeah. So it wouldn't be. It's not a high enough like quality camera to like record videos with it. But it would be able to sense your environment, the context, are you outside or inside? It's kind of like a low res video sensor in a way that the AI can then use that to identify, oh, you're looking at a sign or oh, you're outside right now or inside right now. And so it's constantly running, but it's not recording. And so this article I'm reading it now, it's saying like, oh, there's this super sensing feature, which is again, it's not recording photos and videos. But it is always running so that it has the context of what's going on when you're trying to ask it stuff and trying to engage with it.

• 1:11:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Recording audio all the time and snapping photos every couple of seconds.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  So this says in one proposed system, which is this is all rumored.

• 1:11:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Raw footage and audio would not be stored by meta or made available to the user. Instead, the metadata from the audio and images would be extracted and that would be uploaded to a server for AI to query. So.

• 1:11:57Andrew Manganelli?

  But that's still being recorded with the camera on the thing, which is not a low resolution camera and still recording audio all of the time.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that never gets accessed by even the device itself, I guess. It's just a meta.

• 1:12:10Andrew Manganelli?

  The metadata gets sent or pulled, but yeah, like, what does that mean?

• 1:12:14David Imel?

  Extracting metadata from video and audio and.

• 1:12:17Andrew Manganelli?

  It needs to be stored at some point to extract that information.

• 1:12:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but it can't all be stored. So I guess it's only uploading the metadata. I don't know.

• 1:12:27Speaker 03

  You can't ask questions about metadata. There's no, like, it'll have, like, you'll have your location, it'll have the lens, it'll have the battery life when the thing got taken.

• 1:12:35David Imel?

  I mean, it can make tags, I guess, if you looked at a sign, but this is meta. Like, why are we pretending that they're not gonna do the worst possible thing with this?

• 1:12:43Speaker 03

  Sooner or later, this data, someone's gonna discover you can buy people's memories from a data broker, because they're obviously gonna be selling this for ad purposes. And it's, the whole thing's gonna explode. It's the same, like, I don't know if you guys remember, this is like five or six years ago, the New York Times did this experiment where they started buying people in New York's commutes from data brokers, because Google Maps was like tracking their location, you know, and keep it like, had a record of like, oh, their commute starts at this place and they go, this is where they work. And you could buy people's commutes by name from data brokers. And sooner or later, you're gonna be able to buy people's meta glasses, memories, or whatever, like, like, what?

• 1:13:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Even in a sense, like, before that level, like, if they, they're potentially training AI with this, then they're obviously going to be taking enough of a audio or picture sample to be able to train it. And the last time we saw them train with AI is a bunch of people doing private things.

• 1:13:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Training AI is a bunch of people in a room looking at all of the photos and recordings, like, labeling them for AI to understand lately.

• 1:13:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It's.

• 1:13:50David Imel?

  You know, I don't know, obviously, all of this is rumored. The Apple AirPods one, I would think that they would only do it if you asked it specifically, like, what am I looking at? What is that?

• 1:14:02Andrew Manganelli?

  If that, I wasn't here for the Apple AirPods one. If that's what they're doing, you should be just as skeptical with them.

• 1:14:07David Imel?

  Sure. Yes.

• 1:14:08Andrew Manganelli?

  If you have something constantly recording, you should be skeptical of it.

• 1:14:11David Imel?

  I don't know, maybe don't put cameras on your ears. I don't think we need cameras on our ears. I think when you're, the, the thing that makes the smartphone so good is that you are. Are very intentionable intentional about everything you're doing and it's very obvious to other people. The things that you're doing most of the time, even though like using a smartphone to take a photo is less in your face. As using a camera because very obvious you're just taking a picture and you can sneakily snap a photo with your smartphone. Holding it up to do a thing people can see staring at your screen people can see this is why like the meta glasses with the with the screen inside. Is like a bad idea because nobody knows that you're just surfing Instagram, you know? I think it's important that the people around you have an awareness of what you're doing with the technology in front of you.

• 1:14:56David Imel?

  And the more we try to hide this stuff, the worse it is for everybody's privacy. So.

• 1:15:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they specifically said in their statement that we read last week that like. They need to be able for people to trust their products because you know, this is a product that people are supposed to be wearing all the time. And the more people don't trust it, the more it's going to get banned from different places and therefore like they're going to shoot themselves in the foot with their own product. And at this point, I don't see why these products don't get banned from.

• 1:15:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Bathrooms, changing facilities, gyms, pools like.

• 1:15:30David Imel?

  F1 paddocks.

• 1:15:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Like they're going to get banned from so many things that are part of your everyday life that these aren't going to be able to be things that you can. Have on your person as an everyday accessory and they're going to shoot themselves in the foot with it.

• 1:15:43David Imel?

  Yeah, that's what's very hard about this is that the banning of these things is going to get more and more difficult. The more smart glasses companies start to exist, right? Like we have, we had meta first, but now we have all of these smaller companies that are making smart glasses. Google's going to start making them. Apple's going to make them. It's going to be very difficult for people to actually know what's smart glasses and what's not smart glasses.

• 1:16:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I have to assume by the end of next year. Glasses with cameras in them will be banned from public restrooms. You don't think so from lobbying?

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  Dude, no one is ever going to take care of any of these tech companies, man.

• 1:16:17David Imel?

  Yeah, I think that's.

• 1:16:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that might be a creepy enough thing that. I could see it. Well, I mean, it's going to happen whether it's a government ban or just most private companies are allowed to ban it from their own public, their own spaces.

• 1:16:30Speaker 04

  But the problem too is that some of these, like the Meta ones in particular, have prescription lenses in them. So they are the people's glasses.

• 1:16:37Andrew Manganelli?

  No, but that's at that point, that's what shoots Meta in the foot is because it doesn't matter if it's prescription glasses or not. If you're a facility that doesn't want recording in it like that, you ban it from it. And then if you either don't wear your glasses or you don't get to come in, or you have to have another pair of prescription glasses, which is annoying.

• 1:16:53David Imel?

  Which is really annoying.

• 1:16:56Speaker 03

  Dude, I've straight up gotten ads on Facebook, like, like recommended Facebook Marketplace listings for crystal meth. Like, there's no, there is nothing that can be done about, about this, you know? Like, I really believe we're at a point where unless we have like some sort of radical change in the power structure of this country, they're just gonna do whatever they want, you know? And I can make all the jokes I want about, you know, benders stealing or whatever, but you know, that's, that's how I feel.

• 1:17:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Speaker 04

  I did look up the, the Apple story from a couple of weeks ago, which again, this is a rumored thing. So we don't know if it's coming out or not, but it was infrared cameras.

• 1:17:33David Imel?

  Infrared?

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  So it's cameras and people will say it's cameras, but.

• 1:17:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Speaker 04

  Yep. It's still a camera. If it's a camera, it's a camera. There are people that still put tape over their like webcams, you know, like.

• 1:17:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:45Speaker 04

  Anytime there's a camera involved.

• 1:17:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Computers that come with a physical.

• 1:17:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, like a switch. So like, I think anytime you put a camera in your thing, people are gonna look at it with a skeptical eye.

• 1:17:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, if you want to think, if you want to believe all the companies, you should even just be skeptical of it. Because if someone can somehow get into any of the thing, like most people do it for webcams more because if someone gets into your network, you're worried people are seeing what's on your webcam. There's a thousand reasons to be skeptical of it.

• 1:18:11David Imel?

  What is a photo anyway? Doesn't matter.

• 1:18:14Andrew Manganelli?

  The other thing I saw on this, which is still a rumor is. I guess they pulled up a statement from Meta a while ago that kind of breathed some information into what we talked about before, but they claim that the reason they don't want it lighting up during AI instances versus recording instances is then if it's lighting up all of the time, then people won't actually know when people are recording actively versus the AI recording it and then become too accustomed to it that they won't actually know, which is just one, two different color record, two different color lights, solved, Meta, I'll take my check.

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  How long did that take you?

• 1:18:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Just kidding.

• 1:18:49Speaker 03

  Thirty seconds?

• 1:18:50Andrew Manganelli?

  But, but yeah, it's like, that's one of those things that like, on the absolute baseline of it is like, that makes sense. And then you think about it for five seconds and you're like, that's just all for your benefit and not for the benefit of any of your users. So stupid, but uh, so I can only assume always super sensing will not activate the recording light because it would just be on all the time.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  And thus concludes our depressing meta coverage.

• 1:19:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, well, wait, one more thing.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Nevermind.

• 1:19:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, well, but wait, there's more.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  There's more.

• 1:19:19Andrew Manganelli?

  There is, but they are also potentially thinking if they would bring this into existing products already. So like the current meta glasses, just getting, if you assume this could be a software update, right? It's got all the stuff it needs for it already.

• 1:19:33Speaker 03

  The cojones.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  And thus concludes our depressing meta.

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  It's really hot in this room right now. You know, maybe that is raising our tempers a little bit. Maybe we'd feel more sympathetic.

• 1:19:43Andrew Manganelli?

  This is a pretty stupid one. What did Marquez, what was, how'd you, how'd you post this in Slack when it happened?

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:19:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh yeah. It was like, could Meta be more tone deaf? And then just posted an article that just says Meta wants to make glasses that are recording all the time.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is not new, by the way. Meta wanted to put like that thing in your house. What was that called? That little screen that had a camera on it? Portal. The portal. The Facebook portal. They wanted to put that in your house years ago. They've always wanted to put cameras.

• 1:20:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I remember.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. They were not allergic to cameras.

• 1:20:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Early into me working for you and you were like, we just got an ad opportunity and it's the most money we've ever been offered. And, and he sent it to me and I was like, we can't do this. He's like, yeah, I know we can't do this. It's, it's Facebook camera in your house. We obviously can't do this. He's just like, just crazy.

• 1:20:29David Imel?

  Yeah, they've had the cojones for many years.

• 1:20:32Speaker 04

  Listen, I

• 1:20:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone wants a camera in your house.

• 1:20:34Speaker 04

  I love the meta glasses as a GoPro. The moment that you're using them for anything else, just take them off.

• 1:20:40Andrew Manganelli?

  They're a way cooler GoPro.

• 1:20:42Speaker 04

  It's like if you're snowboarding, sure, I want to see your first person like POV video. That's super cool. If you're surfing, if you're doing anything extreme sports, but like if you're just walking on your like daily commute to the train station, just wear regular glasses. It's fine.

• 1:20:56David Imel?

  Yeah, these are not meta glasses, by the way.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Sometimes they're shaped like meta glasses because meta glasses are shaped like regular glasses and you kind of have to like do a double check.

• 1:21:05Speaker 04

  Let people know.

• 1:21:07Speaker 03

  I got got by the Oakleys on the train the other day. I was like, why are those Oakleys so thick?

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  The meta ones?

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Because also like, I don't know if, I didn't see this before, but the Oakleys I saw only had a camera on one side.

• 1:21:18Andrew Manganelli?

  No, they usually only have

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  And they had a stud on the other side, like there was something.

• 1:21:22David Imel?

  It was on the other side?

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  The Oakley ones have it in the center from what I remember.

• 1:21:26Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, the Oakley running ones, the normal Oakley ones are just like the Ravens.

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Andrew Manganelli?

  The, the first Oakley ones that came out are more like a pair of glasses that just look crazy. And kind of cool at the same time. I hate that. I kind of like them, but you're talking about the like Oakley running like pit viper-esque.

• 1:21:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  From last year.

• 1:21:43Speaker 03

  It wasn't those. It was a slightly more normal pair of them.

• 1:21:45Andrew Manganelli?

  If you saw someone with those just on the subway, I'd, I don't know if I'd be worried about the camera or what this person's about to like launch out of the subway on some record run that he's going on in.

• 1:21:57David Imel?

  Yeah, parkour ever. Record run in his time is going to be like 14 minutes a mile, I guarantee you. It's everybody in Brooklyn. They wear their like shiny rainbow glasses and their bandit running hundred dollar shorts and they run like 14 minute miles.

• 1:22:10Speaker 04

  Listen, 14 minute miles is better than no minute miles.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Don't gatekeep running.

• 1:22:14Speaker 04

  Don't gatekeep running.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  You're allowed to be bad at running and run.

• 1:22:17David Imel?

  And pay a thousand.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  I run 14 mile, 14 minute miles in, you know, a heavy cotton T-shirt and my $20.

• 1:22:23David Imel?

  Everyone, that's what I'm saying. If Ellis can do it in that, you don't need those Oakley glasses.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's part of getting yourself invested. You can buy fancy golf clubs and shoot 150 and no one's mad at you for getting the clubs. You're out there on the course with the rest of us.

• 1:22:35Speaker 03

  150 is really good though, right? That's high.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  It's quite bad. It's maybe, maybe unsustainably bad.

• 1:22:41David Imel?

  You don't want.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  But it's okay. You're on the course.

• 1:22:44Speaker 04

  I don't shame anyone running or walking.

• 1:22:46David Imel?

  What does hit 150 mean?

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Oh, God. In golf, you play 18 holes. The object of the game is to have as few strokes as possible. So there's par threes, par fours and par fives. So like a normal golf course is like a par 72 for the whole 18 holes.

• 1:23:03David Imel?

  Does that mean you hit, you hit the ball 72 times to get all 18 holes in?

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  For even par. Exactly.

• 1:23:08David Imel?

  150 sounds horrible.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  So 150 is, it's pretty bad.

• 1:23:11Speaker 04

  So best case scenario, you shoot an 18.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  Like 18 holes in.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  Oh, a hole in one on every hole? Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  That would be like the best score you could possibly get.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Allegedly. I shouldn't even say this.

• 1:23:21David Imel?

  8.3 strokes for holes.

• 1:23:24Speaker 04

  Say it.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  No, I'm not gonna say it.

• 1:23:25Speaker 04

  I feel like I know what you're going to say.

• 1:23:27David Imel?

  You about to call out someone for being bad at golf?

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  No, it's a, it's a totally unrelated political statement.

• 1:23:35Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  We won't even say it on the pod.

• 1:23:37Speaker 04

  Speaking of political statements, trivia. You know what else is unsustainably bad?

• 1:23:44David Imel?

  The state of the world.

• 1:23:46Speaker 04

  All right. So we spoke about the meta glasses always recording just now for the last half hour of my life. But it immediately made me think of a different AI camera that was constantly recording that Google released in 2017.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:00Speaker 04

  What was it called?

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:01David Imel?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember this.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what's funny? Super sensing would be really great for, were you paying attention?

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  You remember how, Marquez, you remember how nobody was mad about the Google camera that was always recording in your house?

• 1:24:16Speaker 04

  No one used it. Everyone knew it was stupid.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Why was nobody mad about that? Maybe they were.

• 1:24:20David Imel?

  Because we were, we were not.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  It was also just more like a dorky thing that no one would buy, but the meta glasses are already everywhere.

• 1:24:27David Imel?

  And it was like cute. You were supposed to use it with your kids.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  And it's only in your house, so you can't creep on people because it's only in your house.

• 1:24:32David Imel?

  Oh, true, true, true, true.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  That's a big thing.

• 1:24:33David Imel?

  It was your call to like let Google spy on you.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  On instead of creeping on other people.

• 1:24:38David Imel?

  By Google instead of creeping on other people. That's true. That's a big difference.

• 1:24:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It made me realize I don't know what the product is because I thought it was something else.

• 1:24:43David Imel?

  But I also think that since then, we have just been cursed with knowledge. We were willfully ignorant for a long period of time.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Many more motivations now.

• 1:24:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:53David Imel?

  Money.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. Well, answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the gold tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:25:54Speaker 05

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• 1:26:33Speaker 05

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• 1:27:18Speaker 04

  Welcome back. So for this last segment, we are going to do a game. I am going to shout out one of my favorite podcasts that I've been listening to recently. It's After the Whistle, which is a soccer podcast all about the World Cup. And they have a segment at the end called Bits and Bobs where they talk about random little things that have something to do with soccer, maybe not, maybe it does. I thought it would be fun for us to do it. And then as I was explaining it to everyone, they were like, so show and tell. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah. Okay. So, so show and tell. We're gonna do show and tell. Who wants to go first?

• 1:27:49David Imel?

  I'm bringing my trade secrets.

• 1:27:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, I brought in secret Apple parts.

• 1:27:53Speaker 04

  Here's the blueprints for the expiration of iPhone. I-

• 1:27:58David Imel?

  So this is just stuff we've been like enjoying recently?

• 1:28:00Speaker 04

  Enjoying things that you're excited about.

• 1:28:03Speaker 01

  Can I read what you described it as?

• 1:28:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  And I can justify what I brought. Perfect. Yeah.

• 1:28:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Marques has a backpack that he won't let any of us see what's inside.

• 1:28:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, we have no idea what's in the bag.

• 1:28:11Andrew Manganelli?

  What's in the bag?

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  And also, David, you said something about you brought three things?

• 1:28:14David Imel?

  I have like three things.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  And I also have three things.

• 1:28:16David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:28:17Andrew Manganelli?

  This is a pretty long episode already, guys.

• 1:28:19David Imel?

  I'll be quick.

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go first.

• 1:28:21David Imel?

  They're all related. Okay, you go.

• 1:28:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  My thing is my birthday present from Adam and Alex.

• 1:28:29Speaker 03

  It is a VJ Edgecomb rookie card.

• 1:28:32David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 1:28:33Speaker 03

  And also-

• 1:28:34David Imel?

  He is a rookie still, right?

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  A VJ Edgecomb rookie card. And then eight more identical VJ Edgecomb rookie cards. And I keep them on my desk, all 10 of them.

• 1:28:44David Imel?

  That's cute.

• 1:28:45Speaker 04

  That's adorable.

• 1:28:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Is he a Sixer?

• 1:28:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Alex bought something from, that's a Sixer?

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  That's dedication.

• 1:28:51Speaker 04

  That's true dedication.

• 1:28:52Andrew Manganelli?

  He's fired.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  Listen, game recognize game. VJ Edgecomb is a baller.

• 1:28:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Has Alex ever heard of Joel Embiid?

• 1:29:00David Imel?

  Yeah. So none of my things are going to, actually, one of them users or listeners might actually want to use. Okay, I'm gonna do a couple. So, first one. Fairly recently, um, I decided that I was going to mod my old Nintendo 3DS XL. So I did significant upgrades to it. Funny enough, I've been a lot of hardware advancements in the last, um, 20 years.

• 1:29:28Speaker 04

  As long as you don't need to buy RAM.

• 1:29:30David Imel?

  I didn't have to buy RAM for this. I did buy a battery. They sell batteries now that have 3X the battery capacity of the original one, which is crazy for the 3DS XL, the new 3DS XL.

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  It was foretold.

• 1:29:42David Imel?

  I have this beautiful, um, galaxy color. I, uh, I remember I sold my original DS. It was the Ocarina of Time Edition for it, which I regret because now that's worth a lot of money. But, um, I homebrewed it, so now you can play practically anything on it. Pretty awesome.

• 1:30:01Speaker 04

  That you legally purchased yourself.

• 1:30:04David Imel?

  Myself on the Nintendo Store that doesn't exist anymore. And, uh, yeah, I've just been, I've been playing, um, Ocarina, uh, not Ocarina of, I've been playing Legend of Zelda.

• 1:30:19David Imel?

  I don't know. It's the one after A Link to, it's the 3DS one that came out after A Link to the Past.

• 1:30:23Speaker 04

  Isn't it in, can you just pull it out of the thing and read it?

• 1:30:27David Imel?

  No, it's on the side, it's software. Yeah.

• 1:30:29Speaker 04

  What's the cartridge?

• 1:30:30David Imel?

  A Link Between Worlds. I think it's Fire Emblem is the cartridge. Anyway, I've just been like, you know, on the little subway. Uh, that's been fun. So, yeah, that's been fun. Other things for the subway?

• 1:30:41Speaker 04

  That's a good one. I think I gave Alice or you my, my 3DS or my DS, I forget. And I, I kind of.

• 1:30:49David Imel?

  Uh, I think Alice took it. Yeah.

• 1:30:51Speaker 03

  It was me.

• 1:30:52David Imel?

  Okay, other fun thing that you guys might have fun with. I bought this recently. It only cost $50. So this is called the XTE Ink. Uh, it is an e-reader that is super, super thin. Doesn't even have a backlight. There's a lot of problems with it. But, but it is very small. This is the X4. They also make the X3. What's cool with that is that they give you these MagSafe rings with it. And you can stick the MagSafe ring on the back and it is perfectly sized for the back of your phone.

• 1:31:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:31:28David Imel?

  So if you have like an iPhone Air or an iPhone Pro Max, the XT, the three is, fits on the regular Pro. The four fits on the Pro Max. Um, yeah, it's pretty awesome. It just sticks to the back of your phone. And so then when you're on the subway, you can either play A Link Between Worlds or you can just go on and flip your phone over. And suddenly you have an e-reader.

• 1:31:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Can't you read on the front part of your phone?

• 1:31:50David Imel?

  Shut up, Andrew. All right. Last thing really quickly, a piece of software that I've been enjoying a lot recently is called Tapora. And it's writing, it's writing software. And you might find, you might think that's boring. You might think that's boring.

• 1:32:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Because it is.

• 1:32:06David Imel?

  Because it kinda is. But it's sort of just like very simplistic writing software that, uh, it has like, it has support for Markdown and it's got all these different headings and paragraphs. And it's like, it's, it's got a lot more features than Google Docs and it lets you organize things better. But it's so simplistic and it's so just like, there is nothing else that I found that when I'm writing with it, I'm just flying across the screen.

• 1:32:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I love those.

• 1:32:33David Imel?

  When I'm on Google Docs, I get so distracted so easily. The fact that I'm in a browser with tabs is like horrible. There's way too many things on Google Docs that don't work well, like image insertion is freaking horrible on Google Docs.

• 1:32:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Still has that created AI as the first, like clicking insert an image and then generating images is the first thing.

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  Or even just downloading images that you guys drop in the docs is the worst in Google Docs.

• 1:32:59David Imel?

  Yeah. And honestly, just not having other tabs available to me. So I don't get distracted at all. And just, just thinking about what I'm writing. I really liked this app. It's, um, they have a two week free trial and then it's like $15 once if you want to buy it outright. And to me, that's very much worth it. So no subscription, which is really nice. Uh, Tapora for Mac. I really like it. So those are my three things.

• 1:33:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool.

• 1:33:21Speaker 04

  It's nice. Andrew, what's yours?

• 1:33:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I have one pretty simple one, but I'm in the middle of a podcast right now that I'm really enjoying.

• 1:33:27Speaker 04

  We are currently recording it, so.

• 1:33:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes. No, I, Claire found this podcast on Reddit. It's from like 2019.

• 1:33:36Andrew Manganelli?

  But it's about an actor who got hired for a role in Band of Brothers. And then Tom Hanks fired him after he already got hired because he saw his audition tape and said he has dead eyes. And so the entire-

• 1:33:49Speaker 04

  Did you want that for Band of Brothers?

• 1:33:51Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what every- a lot of people say that. It's like awful World War II movie. Or no, really good mini-series about World War II, but lots of people in World War II are generally. But the whole thing is just him talking to other people in the movie industry that he knows that might know Tom Hanks. And trying to figure out what this comment about dead eyes means to the point where he's- Because it's 20 years ago at this point. That came out in like 2000.

• 1:34:17Speaker 04

  If the last episode doesn't end with him asking Tom Hanks to his face.

• 1:34:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I- he- the- I'm on episode eight out of 10. So I'm getting really close to seeing if that's the- And I'm only assuming if people say this was a good podcast recommending that I'm hoping something along that line. He's tried to get in touch with the con- the- the- what's it called? Why can't I think of the screening director, the- Casting director, thank you, but she didn't want to talk to him and now- But a lot of the people he knows know Tom Hanks, so I'm hoping Tom Hanks gets in here somewhere so he can ask him about.

• 1:34:51Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like four lines in one episode, but it happens to be episode five of Band of Brothers. Tom Hanks directs, even though he's in it already.

• 1:34:59Speaker 04

  Can I ask a stupid question? What is this podcast called?

• 1:35:03Andrew Manganelli?

  It's called Dead Eyes.

• 1:35:04Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. You gotta say that.

• 1:35:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Connor Radcliffe, I believe his name is. He's been in like a bunch of small things here and there. He's pretty- pretty- he has like Jon Hamm on it. There's a lot of very impressive people on it.

• 1:35:17Speaker 04

  You mean Jonathan Hamon?

• 1:35:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:35:19Speaker 04

  Huge Bad Bunny fan.

• 1:35:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, huge. But yeah, I'm enjoying it. I love these podcasts that are hyper-focused on something that's so trivial. But if you can make 10 episodes out of it, it's like, well, now I'm just invested. So stuff like that.

• 1:35:35Speaker 04

  Shout out to-

• 1:35:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I really enjoy. Yeah, shout out to Reply. I'll shout- it's- this is like cereal for something that doesn't matter at all. Or only matters to one person and it really affected their life 20 years ago. And that's fascinating. So I'm excited to finish it, but if you need a quick podcast.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. After you finish this one. After, after waveform and you subscribe and listen to our whole backlog and let it play while you're sleeping and then you can listen to Dead Eyes. Once you've gotten through the whole season.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  Alright, Marquez, what are yours? Mine, mine, so. What's in the bag? Yeah, I brought my, I brought my bag here. So my, at the beginning of the new year, I decided I wanted to have a new year's resolution to learn a new skill. And I decided that that skill would be juggling. So. Oh, what? Beginning of the year, I bought a set of three juggling balls. How the, how has none of us known this? How did I never hear about this?

• 1:36:31Andrew Manganelli?

  We've talked about juggling at work before. Is that what spawned it?

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  So every day for the past six months, I've been juggling at the end of every day. And what I can report now is that I've gotten pretty good at juggling these exact three items. Okay. Or items that are the same size and shape. So like three small oranges, I can juggle really well. Size things. Uh, I will, I'll demo it for you. I would like to see. How have you been doing this? By next year, at any point when I'm at my desk, I can just throw something to your desk and you say. What? No way! Oh, that was. I now feel like I know nothing about it. That was pretty good. What else are you hiding from us? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. Dude! Dude, okay. Probably, yeah. Good for audio listeners, honestly.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  Oh, Marquez. Why? Uh, I, can I try? Yeah. I just thought it would be, uh, so Rufus can juggle. I was like, it looks like fun to be able to juggle. But I also, kind of like a Rubik's Cube, I wanted to be able to try something that didn't have instructions. So like a Rubik's Cube, it would be fun to learn how to solve a Rubik's Cube, but it's basically just learning and memorizing a set of instructions. I wanted it to be a little bit creative, like there's different, you see different types of juggling and like you'll do different patterns and stuff like that. Yeah. I think those still require instructions, but I've just been, no instructions, just like. Throwing them up in the air and figuring it out for the past couple of months. So.

• 1:37:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Adam, you probably know the.

• 1:37:58Speaker 04

  The brand.

• 1:37:58Andrew Manganelli?

  The brand.

• 1:37:59Speaker 04

  What is the brand?

• 1:38:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Dunkin'.

• 1:38:00Speaker 04

  Yep, they make yoyos.

• 1:38:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:02Speaker 04

  Really good yoyos.

• 1:38:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Dunkin' yoyos when we were in like fourth grade were.

• 1:38:06Speaker 04

  What do you mean? I still have one.

• 1:38:08Andrew Manganelli?

  You still have a Dunkin' yoyo?

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  You guys are into yoyos?

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  I'm hella into yoyos.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  You guys are into yoyos too?

• 1:38:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I remember.

• 1:38:13Speaker 01

  I was so good at yoyos.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  Dude, I could do a bunch of the track. I could do the.

• 1:38:16Speaker 04

  Can you?

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Do that too, baby.

• 1:38:18Speaker 03

  How did this?

• 1:38:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you want me to?

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Wait, we should start a yoyo core.

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. I didn't know you guys were into yoyos.

• 1:38:23Speaker 04

  Marquez is still juggling, by the way.

• 1:38:25Andrew Manganelli?

  This might be the oldest thing I've ever said, but when I was younger, I remember going to the Five and Dime and looking for a Dunkin' yoyo in my town.

• 1:38:33Speaker 04

  What's a, what's a Five and Dime?

• 1:38:34Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like a general store.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  I've never heard of Five and.

• 1:38:37Andrew Manganelli?

  You probably might not know.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  Stuff right there. There's a Dollar Tree here. Yeah, but Five and Dime is older.

• 1:38:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Five and Dimes were you, yeah.

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  Like that.

• 1:38:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, were they? Were they?

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Print song.

• 1:38:49Speaker 04

  Raspberry. I would like to remind everyone that this was Marquez's first of three things.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Oh, no, sorry. These are all three things.

• 1:38:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  It was a pun.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  I was like, what else have you been hiding?

• 1:39:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, sorry. That was it. That was the three things.

• 1:39:02Speaker 04

  Juggle sacks.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:03Speaker 04

  Okay, so what is your thing? Adam? My, thank you for remembering my name.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  I couldn't remember.

• 1:39:09Speaker 04

  I was.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  I blacked out.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  It's only been a decade.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  It's 150 degrees.

• 1:39:14Speaker 04

  It is 150 degrees.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  I'm cooking in here, dude. My brain is on fire.

• 1:39:17Speaker 04

  Uh, mine is just an audiobook that actually Andrew put me onto called Dungeon Crawler Carl.

• 1:39:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:39:23Speaker 04

  And I had, I had mentioned to him a couple of weeks ago how I've been seeing this book everywhere and I don't really know what it's about. Everyone's talking about it. Dungeon Crawler Carl. It's like a whole series. And he was like, he explained it to me in like two sentences in a way that made me instantly intrigued. And he was like, oh yeah, and the audiobook was pretty good, but I stopped listening to it because blah, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, okay, maybe I'll just start listening to the audiobook again. And the audiobook is more than pretty good. It is amazing. It is really good.

• 1:39:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I just sometimes am like. When my commute is too long, I find myself zoned out and then I've missed however many minutes. And then it's hard to find where I missed, but.

• 1:39:58David Imel?

  It's what it is to be an adult.

• 1:39:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. The, the reason it's, everyone's talking about it is because they just announced a Netflix version.

• 1:40:05Speaker 04

  Oh, maybe that's what it is. Okay. Yeah, but it's really good. Great sound effects, great direction. The main actor, I forget his name. I'm terrible, but he acted his ass off. It was so good. Yeah.

• 1:40:17David Imel?

  Where do you listen to it? What, what app do you?

• 1:40:19Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, it is exclusive to Audible. So if you're, if you're on Spotify, if you're on anything else, you have to like, pretty much get.

• 1:40:26David Imel?

  I wish Pocket Casts had eBooks.

• 1:40:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I know. There's also like eight books.

• 1:40:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's audiobooks out, I believe. I don't know how many actual books there are. I'm not there yet. I'm on.

• 1:40:35David Imel?

  Dungeon Crawler Carl.

• 1:40:36Speaker 04

  Dungeon Crawler Carl. Yeah. Andrew, you want to give the synopsis? Cause you're the one that sold it to me.

• 1:40:42David Imel?

  Sounds terrible.

• 1:40:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, it's like, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's a dungeon crawler game in book format. It's like a guy asked you enter a dungeon with random NP, like.

• 1:40:53David Imel?

  That doesn't sound good at all.

• 1:40:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Bosses and things. It's, I know. It sounds really silly, but it's pretty well done in the way they describe everything. Like they describe, like he's walking and question mark pops up and he clicks question mark to like, find like instructions. The way they do it all is really impressive.

• 1:41:10Speaker 04

  I've read the description so many times and I was just like, this sounds dumb.

• 1:41:13David Imel?

  It's like you're listening to a D and D game.

• 1:41:15Speaker 04

  Basically, yeah. It's like listening to a D and D game because I read it and I was like, yeah, no, not for me. And then when Andrew mentioned that he had been listening to it and he was like, oh, he really liked it. I was like, oh, let me actually.

• 1:41:24David Imel?

  To be fair, D and D is like all imagination and just imagining things in your head. So I guess an audiobook would be good fodder.

• 1:41:30Andrew Manganelli?

  This is, and it's not just like, you're not just listening to a book of a guy playing. It's like, the world has turned into this. And the only people surviving have to go into like these dungeon gates that open up. And then you start dungeon crawling in the sense of like, there's levels and bosses.

• 1:41:46Speaker 04

  Jeff Hayes, that's the actor, Jeff Hayes. Incredible voice actor. Kills it.

• 1:41:51David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:41:52Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 1:41:52Andrew Manganelli?

  So that was mine.

• 1:41:53David Imel?

  All right. I like this. I think we should be recommending things more often.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  We used to do that as an opening segment.

• 1:41:59David Imel?

  Yeah, we did.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  It was like a piece of content or a thing you wanted to share.

• 1:42:02Andrew Manganelli?

  One thing.

• 1:42:02David Imel?

  You've done that?

• 1:42:04Speaker 04

  Way long ago.

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  A while ago.

• 1:42:06Speaker 04

  In the before times. Why are you guys getting your boards ready? What do you think is coming up?

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  I have a feeling we might want to answer some trivia questions now.

• 1:42:15David Imel?

  Give a pen.

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  He's not wrong.

• 1:42:17David Imel?

  How do the pens keep getting relocated?

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  Guys, what Japanese minimalist, minimalist, minimal, minimalist home goods brand did Pete Lau want OnePlus to be the tech industry equivalent of? Hit it.

• 1:42:34Speaker 04

  Japanese.

• 1:42:36David Imel?

  I feel like this is more, um, what is the company? The like ROM, the Android ROM that became Xiaomi. It feels like more like a, like Xiaomi would be more of this, you know?

• 1:42:49Speaker 03

  Why?

• 1:42:50David Imel?

  Well, I can't give it away. Give it away, give it away, give it away now, but I'll give it away later.

• 1:42:56Speaker 03

  I'm interested. Yeah, no, I, OnePlus never actually became anything.

• 1:42:59David Imel?

  Not even for a model.

• 1:43:01Speaker 03

  Weird quote for 2014.

• 1:43:02David Imel?

  I agree.

• 1:43:03Speaker 03

  All right. Turn it around. Marquez, you put.

• 1:43:09David Imel?

  The country.

• 1:43:09Speaker 03

  Is that the Japanese flag?

• 1:43:11David Imel?

  Yep. The rising.

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  It's not a bad artist rend, rend, rendering. I mean, it's not a difficult flag to draw.

• 1:43:16David Imel?

  Yeah, but it's red. Give me some credit.

• 1:43:18Speaker 04

  He only has a black marker.

• 1:43:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's.

• 1:43:20David Imel?

  Oh, I couldn't.

• 1:43:20Speaker 03

  It's monochrome.

• 1:43:21David Imel?

  Damn it.

• 1:43:22Speaker 04

  You had the red marker too? That's.

• 1:43:24David Imel?

  That's, cut that, cut that.

• 1:43:27Speaker 03

  All right, Andrew, you put.

• 1:43:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Uniglo.

• 1:43:29Speaker 03

  That's incorrect. But David, you put.

• 1:43:31David Imel?

  Muji.

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  And Muji is the correct answer.

• 1:43:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Never even heard of Muji.

• 1:43:35David Imel?

  You've never heard of Muji? I forgot you guys live in New Jersey.

• 1:43:40Speaker 03

  They don't have Muji in New Jersey?

• 1:43:42David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  Uh, Muji rules.

• 1:43:44Andrew Manganelli?

  We have that in the US?

• 1:43:45Speaker 04

  Is it?

• 1:43:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Ben says this looks just like Uniglo.

• 1:43:48David Imel?

  Yeah, kinda.

• 1:43:49Speaker 03

  No, but they, they sell less clothes and more other stuff.

• 1:43:51David Imel?

  More like home.

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  My, my slippers that I.

• 1:43:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like world market, Uniglo?

• 1:43:56David Imel?

  Yeah, but only Japan.

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  No, and they make it everything. They, they don't sell any non Muji stuff.

• 1:44:01Speaker 04

  There is none of Muji in New Jersey.

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:44:03David Imel?

  That's what I said.

• 1:44:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Literally never.

• 1:44:04Speaker 03

  Womp, womp. Uh, the slippers I have.

• 1:44:06David Imel?

  There's one in Williamsburg.

• 1:44:07Speaker 03

  Here. Muji rules.

• 1:44:09David Imel?

  Muji rules.

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  Uh, I have a lot of their mixing bowls and I own some Muji slippers.

• 1:44:13David Imel?

  Their stuff is really cheap and very good.

• 1:44:15Speaker 03

  And their pens, yeah, their stationery is really good.

• 1:44:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:17Speaker 04

  All right, so for the last question of this trivia season, are you guys ready?

• 1:44:24Speaker 06

  These two are, I have no idea.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  I actually don't.

• 1:44:27Speaker 06

  I thought I knew what it was.

• 1:44:28Speaker 04

  In 2017, Google released an AI camera. What was it called?

• 1:44:33Speaker 06

  I don't remember this.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  I don't remember its name, though.

• 1:44:36David Imel?

  Cause you're not a king.

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  Damn. I remember what it looked like. I remember it sitting in the middle of your house and swiveling around and looking at you, but I don't remember the name.

• 1:44:43Speaker 06

  It swiveled?

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  It moved.

• 1:44:45Speaker 04

  It did not swivel.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  Or is this, no, sorry, I'm confusing two things. That's a different thing, but.

• 1:44:50Speaker 04

  You are supposed to like, put it on your mantle and just kind of leave it there.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, then I'm definitely wrong.

• 1:44:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, whatever happened to mantles?

• 1:44:57Speaker 04

  You never hear about people and their mantles anymore.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Well, I have a good mantle.

• 1:45:00David Imel?

  Cause we don't have homes anymore.

• 1:45:00Speaker 01

  I got a great apartment.

• 1:45:02Speaker 04

  You got a fireplace?

• 1:45:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I got a mantle.

• 1:45:04Speaker 04

  Damn. Alright, proven wrong once again.

• 1:45:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Speaker 04

  He juggles. He's got a mantle. You've got a mantle?

• 1:45:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I have a mantle.

• 1:45:10Speaker 04

  You guys have fireplaces?

• 1:45:11Andrew Manganelli?

  You've been to my house. Yeah, I have a fireplace.

• 1:45:13David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:45:14Andrew Manganelli?

  We barely use it, cause I'm afraid it's gonna set the whole house on fire, but it looks sick and probably will split Lanes head open one day.

• 1:45:19Speaker 04

  Fun fact, the house I grew up in had a fireplace, but no mantle. Anyway, we need to do the score because I'm hungry and we have a game show to run.

• 1:45:27David Imel?

  And we have to show our.

• 1:45:29Speaker 04

  Flip him and read. What do you got? Who wants to go first?

• 1:45:33Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what it was called.

• 1:45:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. Think, Marquez, think.

• 1:45:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  I wrote clicks, but that wasn't it.

• 1:45:38Speaker 04

  That was not it. That's the communicator.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:40Speaker 04

  Uh, Andrew, what'd you read?

• 1:45:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I wrote solely. I think that's a good guess.

• 1:45:44Speaker 04

  That's not a good guess.

• 1:45:45Andrew Manganelli?

  A camera that's on all the time.

• 1:45:46Speaker 04

  But it was on a Pixel 4XL.

• 1:45:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and it sucked.

• 1:45:49Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 1:45:50David Imel?

  There's a long video.

• 1:45:51Speaker 04

  Tell us what it is, David.

• 1:45:52David Imel?

  Okay, Google Clips.

• 1:45:53Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  That's what it was. I was halfway there.

• 1:45:56David Imel?

  I stay winning.

• 1:45:57Speaker 04

  With that correct answer, the score is going into trivia. David with 35, Andrew with 28, and Marquez with 32.

• 1:46:07Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  I prefer to stay at 32.

• 1:46:09David Imel?

  Adam, how old are you?

• 1:46:10Speaker 06

  I'm ung.

• 1:46:12Speaker 04

  None of these, uh, none of these scores are gonna matter in the next, in 90 minutes.

• 1:46:17David Imel?

  We'll see. We call this the preseason?

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  Wow, that's very sports of you.

• 1:46:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I know balls. It's very sports of David because he's still getting it wrong, cause it would be like regular season and we'd be going to playoffs.

• 1:46:28Speaker 01

  Perfect, perfectly wrong. Anyway, thanks for watching. Thank you for listening. And of course, if you made it this far into the episode, comment.

• 1:46:35David Imel?

  Your trade secrets.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Comment your trade secrets down below.

• 1:46:38Speaker 06

  Don't do that.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Bring them, comment the most important top secret trade secrets down below.

• 1:46:44Speaker 04

  In Minecraft.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  We will for sure not use them, but we'll think about maybe hiring you if you leave good ones. Anyway, catch you guys next week in our bonus episode, which will be trivia extravaganza. See you soon. Peace.

• 1:47:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Rovin. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network, the air conditioner designer. We're also music by Vain Silk.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  Do you guys remember when everyone thought prompt engineer was going to be like the new job everyone had?

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, now it's just designer.