Google I/O: Oops, All Gemini!

The gang is all back together! We start things off with a generational rant from David about the state of smartphone photography before going deep into everything announced at Google I/O. Spoiler alert: it's AI. Then we wrap it all up with a new camera, marble racing, and of course trivia. Enjoy! Links: Sony tweet Verge - Gemini is in danger of going full Copilot Petapixel - Panasonic camera Jelle's Marble Run 2026 This episode brought to you by: ChefIQ Framer Follow us on socials: Marques: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd⁠⁠⁠ Andrew: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli⁠⁠⁠ David: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.threads.net/@davidimel⁠⁠⁠ Adam: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17⁠⁠⁠ Ellis: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/EllisRovin⁠⁠⁠ Waveform Threads: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast⁠⁠⁠ Waveform Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠ Waveform TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast⁠⁠⁠ Join the Discord: ⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/mkbhd⁠⁠⁠ Intro/Outro music by 20syl: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2S53xlC⁠⁠⁠ Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:21David Imel?

  I read a stat last week that there's like, a quarter of the amount of people, there's rats in New York City. Like, there's a quarter.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 1:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, hold on. I don't understand what you're saying.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  You're saying there's 40 times as many rats in New York City.

• 1:31David Imel?

  There's one quarter as many rats.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  There's one quarter of a rat for every person.

• 1:35Andrew Manganelli?

  There's one rat for every four people.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  There's one rat for every four.

• 1:38David Imel?

  Yeah, one rat. Isn't that, that's like...

• 1:39Speaker 01

  That's a lot of rats.

• 1:40David Imel?

  It's a pretty big number.

• 1:41Andrew Manganelli?

  So, one rat for per four person, people? So, there's a 25% chance you have a rat following you?

• 1:46Speaker 03

  There's a 25% chance you are a rat.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 2:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  And I'm David. And this week, there's music playing for some reason. I don't know why. For some reason. But it feels. We're all back. We're all back. Oh, that's why. We're here. It's the normal crew.

• 2:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Spoiler, we didn't even say our names yet.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  We did. We did.

• 2:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Audio didn't. Did we?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did. We actually just did.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Said I'm Andrew. We went around and said our names. And you're like, so we haven't said our names. So we're all back. We're all also rusty, but hey, it's a, it's another tech week. It's Tarch, Tay, Meck. It's Meck. Google I/O happened. We got a whole bunch of Gemini stuff. Sony tweeted, they have these new headphones, but they also tweeted this April Fool's Day joke like two months late. It was about AI photo correction. We'll talk about that. A new camera might be a Fuji X100V competitor, maybe. And a story about the coolest things we've ever done as a company because it's, it's new and we've been keeping it a secret. But it's time you guys finally know about this thing that we've been doing. And I'm very excited to share it with you.

• 3:00Andrew Manganelli?

  At the end, can't skip ahead, full retention.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, I don't know what this is, so I'm gonna be excited.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  I'm also. I was like, yeah, totally. It's incredible. Totally. Yeah.

• 3:09Andrew Manganelli?

  But first, did they even test this?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I think David has some that are for next week.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That are gonna be really fun.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Ooh, teaser.

• 3:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna give you guys a choice. I was writing some things down on my, my paternity. So I have a few, but I have either a, did they even test this? Or one that I was impressed by. So I wrote it as a, hell yeah, they actually did test this. So people have been saying, maybe some of these things are a little too downer. I'll, I'll open the floor that if you're ever really, really impressed by something, we'll put that in.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 3:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause they did test it.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  I do like when things surprisingly work and you didn't expect them to.

• 3:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes. This is one of the, it sounds like we want to go with the, hell yeah, they tested this.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  I think that would be fun.

• 3:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 3:48Andrew Manganelli?

  This is something that's positive, worked really well. It's something that maybe surprised me because this feature hasn't worked for a long time. But I had a really good magic queue experience. Google Messages.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Remind what, remind people what Magic Q.

• 4:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Magic Q is a feature in Google Messages where depending on what the person is sending you in a text message, you'll get, instead of like an auto reply of yes, no, whatever, like a suggestion of maybe they're asking about an event. So here's your calendar and you can post in the calendar event for it. It's supposed to help you answer things that Google should know within your Google.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Landscap.

• 4:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Easier, yes. So I had somebody, a mutual friend of Marquez's and I, say, "Hey, do you have any photos of that camera crane arm you used to have on Marquez's Tesla?" And I was like, "Wow, that was a long time ago. We don't have that anymore. I'm not even sure. I'm sure they're in here somewhere." And I got a little button that said "Google Photos." I was like, "Oh, cool. I can one-click. I'm still gonna have to search for it."

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Launch Google Photos.

• 4:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Launch Google Photos, right there, "Suggestions based on the text message." And there's two pictures of Marquez's car with the camera crane on it.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 4:58Andrew Manganelli?

  And I just clicked both of them and said, "Thank goodness for Magic Q because these are actually them." And Mistos had no idea what I was talking about, but as far as he got the pictures he needed.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  That is what it's supposed to be amazing for.

• 5:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Supposed to do.

• 5:10Speaker 04

  It is now one for 3,000.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  That, yeah, it's, I found that I can, I can search brand names in Google Photos and it can, it can tell me like Tesla versus regular car. Or you can search Mercedes and it will find Mercedes.

• 5:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Here's something that's funny. It said on a Tesla, like in the suggestion said on a Tesla, but it was one of like eight photos that it tested. The one before it was the, um, trailer hitch camera mount with a giant Ford logo on it.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  It'll always have false positives. I don't know how, but it always has false positives for some reason. But yes, it did, it did find the Teslas, which is cool.

• 5:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool. I think it found the crane arm. I think that was the, the discerning factor. That was a little easier to pick up on and unique.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  It's been getting the faces wrong for me recently.

• 5:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Has it?

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll, I'll be like, "This person in Canada," and it'll be like 80% of them is that person, but then 20% of them will be a different person. False positives, yeah. It just seems to cast the net wider than it's supposed to, which is probably a good miss.

• 6:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, it'll just have some random stuff. That's not what you asked for, but it will always have somewhere in there, one of the things you asked for.

• 6:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Right.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Just cool.

• 6:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 6:18David Imel?

  I tweeted that I'm going to have a generational crash out, so I think that's about to happen.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  And what will you be talking about today, David?

• 6:27David Imel?

  If you're unaware, this week, two companies decided to do the worst thing possible to piss me off.

• 6:36David Imel?

  That's right.

• 6:38David Imel?

  Google and Sony decided to implement new AI image editing features. That just proves that engineers have no idea what the [bleep] a photo is supposed to look like.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  I think they tagged you specifically.

• 6:51David Imel?

  Yeah, I felt personally very attacked by this.

• 6:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to, yeah, before you get into it, the blame, I'm not sure where to put it on just the grouping of engineers. Cause we've had photo engineers come to us and say, like, we watched your video on this and we've been trying to tell people on our team.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I'm blaming the social media team.

• 7:10Andrew Manganelli?

  So there's, so there is someone to blame and I agree and it doesn't take anything away from this. Some of the engineers know what they're talking about.

• 7:17David Imel?

  Yeah. Okay. Well, to be fair, okay, I'm just going to talk about exactly what happened. Do you want to talk about Sony first or Google first?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Let's do the Sony one.

• 7:24David Imel?

  The Sony one. Okay. So Sony tweeted this photo from a new phone that of course they just basically didn't announce like usual. Called the Experia, what is it? Experia one?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Mark eight.

• 7:36David Imel?

  Mark eight. That's probably way too expensive and they'll announce it now and it'll release in September and then no one will buy it. And it'll be available only at B and H.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  It's available for preorder, okay?

• 7:46David Imel?

  It's available for preorder.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  You can spend 1,400 pounds on it and it ships in a month, in June.

• 7:51David Imel?

  In June. That's actually way faster than they've ever done.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  It's pretty bad, but it's better than they've been in a long time.

• 7:57David Imel?

  Yes.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  So there, there's what's happening.

• 7:59David Imel?

  So they, they tweet, this tweet that says, "The new AI camera assistant, asterix for some reason, "with Experia Intelligence brings stories to life using subject, scene and weather. It suggests expressive options with adjustments of color, exposure, bokeh and lens," whatever that means, "for breathtaking photos." What does it mean? Adjustments for lens? What does that even mean? Okay. There are four photos here. One of them is kind of acceptable, I suppose.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Brother.

• 8:28David Imel?

  It's like a flower and they made it warmer and it's like, fine. The other two are. It's it's hard to explain how bad these are. One of them is almost definitely not directly from the camera because the shadows were already jacked and it was already underexposed. And I'm pretty sure that this was pre-edited. But the AI edited version is like sharpening to 12, whites to 12, saturation to negative 3. They boosted the red for no reason.

• 8:56Andrew Manganelli?

  To explain the photo, it's a woman standing in a field full of like tall hay and a blue background. And like you said, it's a little underexposed.

• 9:03David Imel?

  And the horizon is at 30 degrees.

• 9:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 9:05David Imel?

  How is she standing straight but the horizon's at 30 degrees?

• 9:08Andrew Manganelli?

  That might be the more

• 9:09David Imel?

  I don't understand.

• 9:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Mountain, maybe?

• 9:12David Imel?

  Is this a fake picture?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  It's one of the strangest social media posts I've ever seen.

• 9:15David Imel?

  Okay, but the worst one is a sandwich.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  It's the sandwich.

• 9:19David Imel?

  Which already like looked like a phone photo, like it has that compression, it has that over-sharpening, whatever, at least it had contrast. The AI camera assistant one, one of the worst edits I've seen in my entire life. I have an Instagram post from before I knew what cameras were, where I applied like three Instagram filters to make it look kind of similar to this, where it's just like really washed out with like no color whatsoever. Like I used to, I used to think that that's what made a good picture too.

• 9:48Andrew Manganelli?

  We all did.

• 9:49David Imel?

  We all did.

• 9:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I have some of those too.

• 9:50David Imel?

  It's like

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Not all of us.

• 9:52Andrew Manganelli?

  You didn't do it?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  My bio since the beginning of my Instagram account was I'm, I promise not to overdo the filters.

• 9:59Andrew Manganelli?

  But did you?

• 9:59David Imel?

  Look at this.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Hashtag no filter was my, my end of the spectrum. Oh yeah, that was

• 10:03David Imel?

  It's bad, right?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  We're

• 10:04David Imel?

  Yeah. It's so bad.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Guilty.

• 10:06Andrew Manganelli?

  This, this sandwich is like, it's a croissant with, I don't know.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Turkey, cheese, tomato, lettuce.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  It's a close up of a sandwich.

• 10:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Lots of good colors that could be, yeah, it's a really close up of a sandwich.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:18Andrew Manganelli?

  But it is so brightened.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Washed out.

• 10:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Washed out in the new one that the white text that says AI camera assistant is almost hard to read in the photo because the photo behind it is so bright and washed out.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:31Andrew Manganelli?

  That it gets lost.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:33David Imel?

  Okay, so if you look at smartphone camera upgrades since like the iPhone 7, specifically from US smartphone manufacturers, you're probably going to notice that there hasn't been a lot of change over the years. You know, the iPhone like 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, like we did these camera tests, right? Smartphone cameras, over time, especially from US manufacturers, really what they've gotten better at is they've gotten better at low light. Because the sensors get bigger, they get better at the stabilization, the low light eventually gets better. However, the primary thing that these companies have been doing is making signs easier to read. Because they look at user data and they say, "What do people usually use their smartphone for?" And it's not to take artsy pictures, right?

• 11:18David Imel?

  It's to take pictures of signs to send information to each other.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  A lot of utility photos.

• 11:22David Imel?

  A lot of utility.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Especially Zoom.

• 11:24David Imel?

  Yeah, it's probably like 80% of what people take photos of, right?

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Depends on the age.

• 11:28David Imel?

  Depends on the age.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  I think a lot of old people have a lot of utility photos.

• 11:31David Imel?

  That is...

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Once you're not taking pictures of kids anymore, it's just like menus at restaurants.

• 11:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Signs to read them better.

• 11:38David Imel?

  I mean, I take photos of those things, you know? Send them to friends, whatever. But people are buying Digicams right now because all these smartphone manufacturers have just been jacking up the shadows, crushing the highlights, adding sharpening, you know? Like, people are like, "Oh, people are buying Digicams because they're old and they're like fashionable." It's like, no. The Digicams that people are buying now are still good cameras. It's just that they don't apply a ton of computational photography to these cameras, to these photos, right? So, I have a diagram for you guys that I'm gonna pull up. It's not a diagram, but it's something I made this morning.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  It's just a bunch of red yarn strewn across the wall.

• 12:14David Imel?

  So, this is a normal picture. This is a picture I took in Colorado a couple of weeks ago, right? It is a mountain landscape, there's some trees in there, there's some bright clouds, there's snow which is quite bright, then there's some, you know, there's a lake, stuff like that.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Blue sky.

• 12:26David Imel?

  Blue sky, so there's kind of a lot going on. For people that don't know, there's a thing called a histogram, which has a thing in it called a tone curve. And effectively, it's a, it's a chart that moves from left to right and up and down. And on the left side, you've got your shadows, in the middle, you've got your midtones, and on the right, you've got your highlights. And to have a well-balanced histogram, it's kind of important to have information in the sha... like, to have a lot represented in the shadows, midtones, and highlights. What these smartphone camera companies are doing... Is they are jacking the [BLEEP] out of the shadows. They are crushing the highlights. They are adding clarity. I would say a negative dehaze specifically on that sandwich photo.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:09David Imel?

  And it looks like this. And this is kind of what that AI camera assistant photo looks like. And if you look at the histogram, they pull in all of the highlight information and the shadow information and it all goes away and it all gets crushed into the center.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  The middle, so it's one big.

• 13:22David Imel?

  All a mid-tone. Everything is a mid-tone.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Would you say these smartphone companies should atone for their tone curve?

• 13:29David Imel?

  Yeah, yes, they need to atone for their sins. Thank you.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm back, baby.

• 13:33David Imel?

  I just want to say, and we've made this analogy before. The difference between a circle and a sphere is shadow, is shadow, is like curvature, which you can only add through like a transition from highlight to shadow, right? Caravaggio, [BLEEP] Da Vinci, they died for this [BLEEP], okay? They invented this [BLEEP]. Paintings in Italy in the Middle Ages were all flat as [BLEEP]. And then they were like, what if we added transitions between color and tone? And then things felt realistic and three-dimensional. And people are like, wow, we can have realistic stuff. And all these smartphone companies are just like, nah, bro, we're going back to before the Middle Ages.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:13David Imel?

  And I, I don't know, I just, I, there's something like the Chinese, the Chinese manufacturers are actually making good cameras. But for some reason, the US manufacturers, they're just like, no, no, we're gonna keep doing the same computational photography that we did when our, when our sensors were like a micron bit.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  I don't think it's just the US manufacturers. I just, I, so I, I was gonna say, I talked about this in the big Android update video because of that, that before and after that they did.

• 14:39David Imel?

  Right, which we'll get to in a sec.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  And I talked about processing.

• 14:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  And I, I did this thing where I had a, every single version of a camera, of every single iPhone, every single Samsung Galaxy S, every single Google phone.

• 14:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  And I thought Samsung's phones were pretty strong, like the HDR happening in the S26s versus like the S22s and S23s, it looks worse.

• 14:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Because they're trying to do this thing where they save bad photos.

• 15:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Which feels like a win, but it also over-processes good photos, which is definitely. Definitely not a win.

• 15:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  So, yeah, that's Sony, Samsung, Google, Apple, a lot of them are guilty of this in a lot of ways.

• 15:14David Imel?

  I mean iPhone 7 and before, the photos looked great because they actually had contrast.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  In some ways, and they've gotten better, obviously, too. You have more resolution, you have more depth of field, you have all sorts of things that have gotten, you know, more impressive at capturing and getting good photos out of like bad situations, but yeah.

• 15:28David Imel?

  They just need to change how they process the information now that they have way bigger sensors. They haven't done that. Like, they're using the same algorithms that they were using on the Pixel 1, you know?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  You know, I have a subreddit that's aged really well.

• 15:39David Imel?

  What?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  R slash [BLEEP] HDR. I subscribed to that subreddit a long time ago because it was hilarious because HDR was like this funny novel thing that used to like, you used to be able to overdo and you'd get pictures on like Facebook like this.

• 15:53David Imel?

  Yeah. Oh my god.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Hilariously overdone HDR.

• 15:56David Imel?

  Yeah. What is it?

• 15:57Speaker 01

  But, but you can, you get this effect. This is just one of many extremely over-processed photos. Like, when you drag, highlights all the way down, shadows all the way up, clarity all the way up, sharpness all the way up, that's what you get. And that kind of feels like what's still happening.

• 16:12David Imel?

  There was an era in fine art photography, like right after Photoshop got invented, where people invented bracketing, which is where you would take

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:19David Imel?

  On a tripod, you take like an underexposed photo, a perfectly exposed photo, and an overexposed photo. And you use the information from all of those three photos, or up to like nine, to basically make like a hyper HDR image. And there was a trend, like in the, in fine art photography specifically, because it was hard to do, right? What people consider a good quality is basically things that are difficult. So at the time, you had to have the knowledge to do this. And so if you go into any like coffee shop in like a fancy town, there's a giant photo on the wall of like a mountain landscape or a river that just looks [BLEEP] horrible.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  And it's always printed on metal, so it's like glossy and weird. I hate that.

• 16:58David Imel?

  If you go to-

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Oh my god, I'm so glad you said that.

• 17:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Any like gallery in a town outside a national park?

• 17:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's just like a bunch of animal photos that were taken with great cameras and like, it's almost like, I need to make this as-

• 17:13David Imel?

  Cool and like impressive as possible because I took this amazing picture of a moose, but it's just like.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  And they sell them for like $5,000.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  It'll be like a sunset where the sky is like so orange. It's like, it's like you melted 10,000 basketballs into it.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  And like, and like the, like a wolf that's like silhouetted, but because it's bracketed, there's still tons of, sorry, this is like my pet peeve.

• 17:34David Imel?

  For sure.

• 17:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Was that near Estes Park? There's probably 40 galleries in Estes Park that have like these exact pictures I'm talking about.

• 17:41David Imel?

  I specifically remember one next to a coffee shop.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think there is something to what you said where like people think that it's good if it looks difficult. And if there's like, back in the day when photos were eight megapixels, if you get a really sharp photo, that would look like a really good camera.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  So if you could sharpen, dehaze and like create a really, you know, structured, sharp photo, it looked quote better, even though it didn't really look that good.

• 18:03David Imel?

  Just because you didn't know how to do it.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's sort of stuff started leaking into like this generic photography. It, yeah, that's sort of, bracketing is the same thing. It's like, okay, if I want to take a picture with like the blue sky in instead of blown out, it would be really difficult unless I had a photo or camera with great dynamic range, or I could learn bracketing and get like two or three photos and combine them.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  So now every time I take a photo, I'm like, I should do bracketing just to make sure it looks better.

• 18:29David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Not necessarily better, but then that starts creeping into regular photos too.

• 18:33David Imel?

  Totally. And this has even happened in film photography. Like there's a, film photography is kind of trendy right now, you know, whatever. There's this like saying that people will be like, oh, just always overexposed by, by a stop so that you always have information in the shadows. And it's like, no, because then you're just gonna get an image that has too much information in the shadows. And like, yeah, I guess you can scale it back because the highlights are more protected, but it's better to actually expose for the photo you want, not just show all the information all of the time.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:02David Imel?

  You know, so.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  To get back to the Sony thing.

• 19:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  They, well, two things on the Sony thing.

• 19:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  One, that tweet with all the horrible edits from the AI thing blew up. It has 13 and a half million views on Twitter.

• 19:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Their marketing department is like, I'm so confused because the best time to delete this was yesterday, but also this is the most traction we've.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  It's a lot of views. So on that subject, the second thing is they posted a follow-up tweet.

• 19:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  That said, hey, following the post about the AI camera assistant, we'd like to explain the feature in more detail. It doesn't edit photos after shooting. It suggests four settings in different creative directions based on the scene and subject. You can choose any option and use your own or use your own settings. And so they show a couple more examples of one original photo and then four suggested AI examples.

• 19:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Which almost makes it more baffling that they decided to show such a horrible example of a creative direction on all of those photos. They look dramatically worse.

• 20:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  The fact that they thought that was creative direction, I guess is a choice.

• 20:08David Imel?

  To be fair, two of these suggestions out of the four are horrible, too.

• 20:12Andrew Manganelli?

  But they're nowhere near as bad as how bad the other ones were. So like even in this has four suggestions and none of them are as bad. Whereas the other one, that went through approval that those.

• 20:23David Imel?

  There's so many things about this, like even just the base photo looks like it's like one megapixel. Like it's so over sharpened and soft and.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think they'd sue us if we sold a t-shirt with that sandwich photo?

• 20:37David Imel?

  I also love that you can barely read the text that says AI camera assistant and that's on it.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyway, they, the social media post is baffling. Whoever decided to choose those as the examples for the post ended up winning because they got 13 million posts, views on the social media post. But also like now everyone's dunking on this Sony phone again, which might be the most attention any Sony Xperia one has gotten in a decade.

• 20:59David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Maybe not for the right reasons.

• 21:01David Imel?

  I mean, I probably wouldn't even have heard that they had released this. I didn't even know they released the last one.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  That's actually true. I didn't know that this phone was coming out.

• 21:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know why, how I knew it was coming out? Like two days before this, someone on our subreddit was like, why does big tech reviewers never do Sony phones? This one's coming out and it's clearly going to be the best camera. It would automatically win the smartphone award. And then this came out and a bunch of people in the comments were like, isn't this the camera you were talking about?

• 21:24David Imel?

  Maybe not, my friend.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Hey, the smartphone award.

• 21:28David Imel?

  Okay, and another thing happened with the camera editing this week. So I was, I missed the Android show episode and I watched the Android show while I was in Europe. And it was mostly good, you know, I actually liked a lot of it. I thought Google did a good job kind of humanizing their, um, their upper management people.

• 21:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I hard disagree.

• 21:46David Imel?

  I thought it was.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  It was really cringy, which was very human.

• 21:49David Imel?

  It was cringy, really cringy. It was, it was cringy.

• 21:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Every time it made me facepalm, like that's, that was the vibe.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  The like, the like half cut of like, am I supposed to say something funny here?

• 21:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Like, oh, boy.

• 22:00Andrew Manganelli?

  That's true. I didn't watch it, but that sounds brutal. I think just the way of describing.

• 22:04David Imel?

  Before they talk, they're like.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  They'd have like an unscripted moment.

• 22:07David Imel?

  Right.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Which was.

• 22:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Which was probably scripted, yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was tough to watch.

• 22:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I think if you have to describe it as humanizing upper level management. Red flag.

• 22:17David Imel?

  That's true.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  It's hard for all these companies. They have like business leaders and like ruthless engineers, like trying to also be the person who presents the thing on camera.

• 22:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, I O was rough. Minus Woodward. He was great, but.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  It's weird. Almost every company does a terrible job at it. I think Apple's the gold standard that they're all trying to match because they have.

• 22:35David Imel?

  Robot energy.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Incredibly, yeah, robot energy, but they at least have like.

• 22:38David Imel?

  There's like.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Well-produced conversational types of presentations.

• 22:42David Imel?

  But they also don't pretend like they're actually having a real conversation. They're not like, hey, Jason, would you mind if you sent me that screenshot of this? Sure, Cheryl. Like, they don't do that kind of thing.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Honestly, since COVID, it was like when we had real live tech demos.

• 22:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Like no bears in your house?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Live presentations, those were, that was like a, an era. And then after COVID, we got these like produced things. That's in this new era that we're in. And they're trying to make this produced era of presentations feel kind of real again.

• 23:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  By having unscripted moments or like long one takes or Carl pay just like not blinking for five minutes or whatever they got to do to make it feel like a person.

• 23:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  That.

• 23:24David Imel?

  Well, and also because the, the general sentiment around technology is at an all time low right now.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Also true.

• 23:29David Imel?

  Like for regular people, regular people hate technology right now.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they're trying to put the person there so you feel like you're talking to a person instead of getting a tech demo. At I O, which is a giant AI show.

• 23:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Just to go on everyone, the resentment is like, have you seen all these commencement speeches?

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Get booed.

• 23:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, getting booed like at all the speeches.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Eric Schmack got booed like crazy, yeah.

• 23:49Andrew Manganelli?

  There's been like multiples of them in the last week, so. Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  But if you're gonna speak to a bunch of students who are graduating, like matriculating into the next part of their life, and you're gonna talk about agentic for- it's like, what's wrong with you?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  That's insane that she's talking.

• 24:04David Imel?

  Yeah, it's a little, it's a little.

• 24:06Andrew Manganelli?

  That derail.

• 24:07David Imel?

  The point.

• 24:07Andrew Manganelli?

  But so at the Android show.

• 24:08David Imel?

  So at the Android show.

• 24:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I missed this photo you were about to talk about.

• 24:11David Imel?

  Oh, really?

• 24:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I haven't seen it, so I'm excited.

• 24:13David Imel?

  You haven't seen it?

• 24:14Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 24:14David Imel?

  Before and after?

• 24:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I have not seen it.

• 24:15David Imel?

  I tweeted it, I tweeted it, I'll show you. Okay, so most of the features they released at the Android show were actually pretty cool. Like, they had the, um, they have the widgets that you can just generate on, in, in instant and kind of create whatever you want. But one of them was basically the same thing as the Sony thing, except it was like, now you can take any social media, like photo or video, and instantly make it look better with like this new Google feature, which I thought is, I thought we've had auto mode for like a really, really long time, so I'm surprised that they considered this like new and better. But they took a photo that looked pretty decently well exposed, like maybe it was slightly underexposed a little bit,

• 24:55David Imel?

  and then they did the exact same thing that Sony did, where they just like made it way brighter, uh, softened it, and that was kind of it. Like, they dragged the exposure slider up a little bit, but they also jagged up the shadows and pulled down the highlights, and it's like.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  It would be a prime R slash HDR candidate.

• 25:12David Imel?

  Yeah. And she's like, it's so awesome because you can take a photo that looked like this, and it's like a normal looking picture, like, I would, I would, that would be a fine photo, in my opinion, to this, and like the resulting photo is just so bad looking.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, the thing is, we know that people prefer brighter photos, especially in this before and after context, where if you just had that original photo, they would go, oh, yeah, it looks fine. But for some reason, regular people look at their before and then look at the after and go, oh, the after is better. It's brighter, I can see more things, therefore it's a better photo. And we haven't been able to escape this. So these companies just keep seeing that response that people have and just keep doing what people keep rewarding, which is making the photo brighter, seeing more in the shadows, seeing more in the highlights, and. That's the result.

• 26:00David Imel?

  I have a theory that, that people who are not like, are like, are not creative people, who are not artists, they don't have taste, but they like things that are bad. Because their taste is associated.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  I was going a different way.

• 26:15David Imel?

  What do you think?

• 26:16Speaker 01

  I thought you were gonna say they have no taste, so they just try to execute the technically better thing, even though it's not taste.

• 26:21David Imel?

  No, I.

• 26:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I just like David telling them their taste sucks.

• 26:24David Imel?

  But she said, they like things that are bad.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  But they like things that are bad.

• 26:28David Imel?

  Well, you know how, you know how over time, when you get better at something, things that you, you used to like, look at and aspire for, you're like, eventually like, ah, actually that wasn't that good. And like, your, your taste kind of moves upwards.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:39David Imel?

  And you, you move around, you're like, oh, now I'm interested in this. Like, I'm looking up at this, and it changes. I think when, you know, if you're not in that specific hobby, or that specific art form, or that niche, you don't, and you don't really know what makes something look good, you're gonna gravitate towards the things that you think look good at that time, right?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:59David Imel?

  Can we just cut this whole section?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  No, I.

• 27:00Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no, totally not subjective, and.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that, when I picture someone.

• 27:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know if I'm just being an asshole right now.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  No, I think it's, it's a fascinating conversation. When I picture someone with no taste, I picture them not having any direction at all to what they tend to pick. But I think what happens is regular people just see brighter as better. The same way that people hear louder as higher quality. It's just sort of a default. It's a default that humans tend to just, just do that. And so now, it's, they don't have taste, but that's the one thing that they understand is better.

• 27:29David Imel?

  Right.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Also, if, like, I think for a lot of people, they're not even looking at the quality of their photo, and they just don't want the auto camera settings to fail, ever. Like, the idea that, like, every single picture comes out usable to some degree, I think is like.

• 27:43David Imel?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 27:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it goes all the way back. We, you know, we big circled this into, David said, most people are looking at these as tools. These are tools. The brighter photo shows more information, the louder thing, I may be able to hear more of. And most people care about it as tools, because they don't mind that it's like, a beautiful photo you might hang.

• 28:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 28:02Andrew Manganelli?

  They mind that it's a photo that they can see their kid having fun on the playground.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and to play devil's advocate for the, for the terrible HDR photo that we get from the before and after, it is easier for most people to turn the after into what they want than the before. That make sense? I can turn up contrast, bring the shadows back down and like make it a regularly looking photo out of the insane looking thing more easily than someone looking at the original, turning it into something that they think looks good and bright.

• 28:31David Imel?

  Depends on how compressed they make it, though.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Definitely, but like in general, like people don't know how to make edit good photos.

• 28:38David Imel?

  That's fair.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  So it's easier to just give them a flat, bright thing and be like, oh, okay. Yeah, oh, David says I should have more shadows. I can here, turn it down now, now they're shadows.

• 28:47David Imel?

  I want to make one more analogy.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:49David Imel?

  You know, you know, live, laugh, love core stuff?

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:52David Imel?

  Like that you'd buy at like Marshalls or I don't know. Home Goods. Home Goods or any cheap Airbnb you've ever been in.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Every time.

• 28:59Speaker 04

  David, you came back with some heat this week.

• 29:00David Imel?

  I'm sorry.

• 29:02Andrew Manganelli?

  We're going after Airbnb.

• 29:03David Imel?

  All I'm saying is like, actual like interior designers would never use that.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 29:08David Imel?

  I don't know. This is a, this could be a whole.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  I'm trying, I'm thinking of it as like, yeah, it's like lines on a, on a graph. Like no taste is just no correlation at all. It's just a blob.

• 29:18David Imel?

  But you're saying because they're being gravitated.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  But people are gravitating towards something. Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's, it's more than just no taste.

• 29:25David Imel?

  That's fair enough.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  It's like some weird, uh, universal constant that we all enjoy.

• 29:31David Imel?

  It's, I don't, I mean, yeah, you enjoy it until you realize how bad it is.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you're gravitated towards something else after that.

• 29:37David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  It's the first step. Maybe it's like a step.

• 29:40David Imel?

  Yeah, it is. I think it is kind of a ladder. I don't know. Anyway.

• 29:43Speaker 04

  The taste ladder?

• 29:44David Imel?

  The taste ladder. I just, I just don't understand why Google is, is positioning this as like a brand new, like technological advancement thing. It's like, it's literally just, they hit the auto button.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:55David Imel?

  Which has existed for like 25 years. Like I don't.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they're all AI now. They all have to say.

• 30:01David Imel?

  Sure, I, I don't.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  It's the artificial intelligence auto button.

• 30:05David Imel?

  It's so weird.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:06David Imel?

  It's so weird. Anyway, I just, go try out like the like a Xiaomi phone or something and you will see what a, what a good smartphone camera is.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  It just comes back to what we were saying before.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Most of these.

• 30:17Andrew Manganelli?

  David needs to smoke.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  People just use these as tools. Like, we care about getting a good picture. Most people want to capture the memory.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Well, that's ironic because the number one seller of smartphones has always been the camera.

• 30:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, but not because they want to post it on Instagram. Because they want to look at it in 12 years and be like, look at what my nephew was doing.

• 30:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It is funny, though, because these events are pointing towards people like us who are judging the cameras based on taking a nice photo. So for the people that works for them aren't watching the Android show, the people who watch the Android show think this sucks.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  That's true. There's a good amount of comments of people being like, ooh, tech reviewers are so out of touch. They always want this, that, and the other. But really, regular people just want like to zoom into 50x and capture their kid on a stage in kindergarten, being a pumpkin for Halloween. Like, that's, as long as you can get that and it's clear, it's like, great, that's a win.

• 31:12David Imel?

  It's like a screwdriver, not a brush, you know?

• 31:14Speaker 03

  I think it's beyond like people not having taste. I just think most people don't think critically and don't care, you know, about how things like look or feel. Like, remember, like, you know, this is, this is a country where we have about the same number of strip malls as schools, you know? Like, we're not thinking too deep about our surroundings.

• 31:34Andrew Manganelli?

  There's way more places that I could shop at. Why do we have this many schools?

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. You know, or like, why should anyone need to like, you know?

• 31:41David Imel?

  At my fourth home, guys.

• 31:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I haven't been to a school in forever.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Only like 10% of the population uses schools.

• 31:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think there's more babies than not babies?

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, why do we have those things?

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I read a stat last week that there's like a quarter of the amount of people, there's rats in New York City. Like, there's a quarter, yeah. Wait, what?

• 32:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, hold on, I don't understand what you said.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  You're saying there's four times as many rats in New York City? There's one quarter as many rats.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  There's one quarter of a rat for every person.

• 32:09Andrew Manganelli?

  There's one rat for every four people.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  There's one rat for every four. Yeah, one rat. Isn't that, that's like, that's a lot of rats.

• 32:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, so one rat for per four person, people? So there's a 25% chance you have a rat following you?

• 32:21Speaker 03

  There's a 25% chance you are a rat.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 32:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Like Men in Black?

• 32:25David Imel?

  My face just comes off and it's a rat.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anyway, I understand. These are tools and brighter people think is better. And it's the same reason why, you know, Apple can be like, oh, we are using pixel binning now. And so it's the same resol- it's like the same quality, even though you're they're getting less light per pixel. And then dumb dumb asses like me will be like, well, technically, um, the photo site is quite a bit smaller. And so the quality of the photo site is worse. And my uncle or my, I don't even have an uncle, my freaking, I don't know, my grandma. Well, she's dead. My mom, my mom will be like, I just want to zoom in at 50x. Yeah. And that's all she wants to do. Yeah, that'll, yeah, like when we, when we see Samsung's space zoom.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  And the first thing we do is go, mm, 50x photos look bad. And then regular people see the commercial and they're like, finally, I can zoom into 50x and get that picture of that sign or that random stage performance for my kid that I was trying to get a picture of.

• 33:24David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Or like I'm in the crowd at the baseball game and I can zoom all the way in on their face for some reason.

• 33:28David Imel?

  Yeah, that's fair. Like the default is gonna be the one that most people use. And then the specialized tools are in the marketplace of ideas. That's fair. I do think Apple has a real opportunity to release like a pro camera app for themselves. Because they're really getting their lunch eaten and they have the opportunity to Sherlock like never before. So we'll see if that happens.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  True.

• 33:51David Imel?

  Anyway, I said I was gonna have a generational crash out, so.

• 33:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you told most people they have no taste, so I think, check.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Check the box.

• 34:00David Imel?

  Okay, by most people, yeah, I do mean most people. I mean.

• 34:03Andrew Manganelli?

  No one listening to this, though. Everyone here has.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  All of you guys are good, though.

• 34:07David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm gonna seem like such a [BLEEP] in this episode.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Now we have to establish that we are better than the average person.

• 34:13David Imel?

  Like, you would think.

• 34:14Andrew Manganelli?

  By getting zero trivia questions correct.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  If I threw a frisbee, you'd probably think, oh my god, his [BLEEP] form is. No, no, no, no, I would average judge and that's a perfect analogy, actually. Because I know that you're not a frisbee player.

• 34:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  It's like a photographer judging a random person's photo. I'm not gonna ju- you're a random person.

• 34:32David Imel?

  Yeah, I wouldn't judge a random person's photo.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  But another photographer?

• 34:35David Imel?

  Right.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Like if, if you were on a frisbee team, I would judge your form.

• 34:39David Imel?

  That's the analogy.

• 34:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It can bite you in the ass, man. There's so many warmups where I was like. Is that how that guy throws a forehand? I'm gonna tool him and get whooped by them on the field later. I've thought that about so many people that are now really good friends.

• 34:51David Imel?

  That's fair enough.

• 34:52Andrew Manganelli?

  And have crushed me out.

• 34:53David Imel?

  But that's a good analogy because Google is basically the other photographer and Sony. And that's why we're, we're like...

• 34:59Andrew Manganelli?

  They should know better.

• 35:00David Imel?

  They should know better.

• 35:01Andrew Manganelli?

  We're just disappointed. We're not bad.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  I think in this analogy, Google makes the frisbee.

• 35:07Speaker 04

  We're so deep down this rabbit hole.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Because it's just a tool.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  It's called an ultra star, actually.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm saying the tool is, be used differently.

• 35:18David Imel?

  Oh, so they made a bad product?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  So they made a disc that flies slightly differently and us pro throwers are like, "Ah, this turns way too fast," or "This is like hanging in the air too long." But regular people are like, "It floats forever. This is great."

• 35:31David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  See?

• 35:32David Imel?

  That's good.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  So, yeah, anyway, that's good. Let the tools do the tool thing. Okay, but there should always be pro tools.

• 35:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I haven't experienced the new soundboard yet.

• 35:41David Imel?

  It's pretty good.

• 35:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It's great.

• 35:43Speaker 05

  Grok contacts, please.

• 35:45David Imel?

  And with that note.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  And with that note.

• 35:47David Imel?

  I think we should, uh, we should take a quick break. Let the steam out of our ears a little bit, but before that...

• 35:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Subscribe and Google I/O next. And before that, and after that.

• 35:56David Imel?

  And then, and then trivia. Let's do trivia.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is gonna be an episode, for sure.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  It's already like 98 degrees in here.

• 36:06David Imel?

  I still can't remember when I said that.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Do it again.

• 36:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you do that again?

• 36:10Speaker 05

  It's the waveform bros.

• 36:13David Imel?

  Why did I say it like that?

• 36:14Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny that I know that that's Mark's guess because I've heard that impression before, but...

• 36:18Speaker 01

  But like, was I responding to something?

• 36:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Which waveform bros?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Was I imitating something? I don't know why I said that, or said it like that.

• 36:25Andrew Manganelli?

  He probably said it when we weren't here.

• 36:27David Imel?

  No, I was here, for sure.

• 36:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Andrew, we also have this one.

• 36:33David Imel?

  That one could have been any of us.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Today's question is, Rachel, Mimi, Robin, and Shakira are all code names for what line of smartphones?

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Rachel, Robin, Mimi, Shakira.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Shakira.

• 36:50David Imel?

  Shakira. Shakira Shakira?

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Shakira Shakira.

• 36:58David Imel?

  The hips?

• 37:00David Imel?

  Interesting. Okay. Don't lie, Marquez. Well, think about it. I

• 37:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Shakira's so good.

• 37:04David Imel?

  I have no idea about this.

• 37:05Andrew Manganelli?

  The Zootopia songs are

• 37:07Speaker 03

  What do you think about like, oh, this, this is like a smartphone whose code name was Shakira. It must be really groovy. Adam, look at this phone and tell me how groovy it is.

• 37:14David Imel?

  Did you hear that, um, Brazil was trying to like sue her for tax fraud?

• 37:18Speaker 03

  No, it was Spain.

• 37:20David Imel?

  Spain was trying to sue her for tax fraud. She got out of it. And she, well, she acquitted herself, basically, and was like,

• 37:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Did her hips go on the stand? Cause they can't lie.

• 37:32David Imel?

  Nice. All right. We really gotta move on.

• 37:39David Imel?

  Is that me?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was you.

• 37:41David Imel?

  I don't remember that either.

• 37:42Speaker 03

  We have a lot of good ones.

• 37:43Andrew Manganelli?

  So many people have already tried to skip the ad break and they're still getting us yapping about things and it's not even an ad.

• 37:49David Imel?

  Okay. We'll think about it. Anthony will be at the end like usual.

• 37:55David Imel?

  And we'll be right back.

• 38:05Speaker 01

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• 38:53Speaker 01

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• 39:36Speaker 01

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• 40:21Speaker 01

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• 41:06Speaker 01

  pipedrive.com/waveform to get started. That's pipedrive.com/waveform and you can be up and running in minutes. All right, welcome back. This past week was also Google I/O. Now, we did talk about the Android show the previous week, which was like, Google took out all of the stuff that you might typically expect of I/Os in the past, which is like Android updates, feature updates, Android Auto, like the interesting, exciting stuff that's gonna hit consumers and that we can actually use and review. They took that out and made it a separate show a week before I/O. We talked all about that. So that, what does that leave for I/O? That leaves a lot of Gemini. Now, we know that I/O is a developer conference and they have to talk to developers and they have to talk to the

• 41:51Speaker 01

  people on the bleeding edge of like using these, you know, tools essentially, Gemini and all the other things that we're gonna talk about. But I think as a whole, this I/O, since it was devoid of the Android stuff, felt like an overwhelming amount of especially named AI features. And if there's one thing about Google is that they can't help naming everything. Everything that they do. So, we're gonna jump into it. We can try to explain a lot of this new stuff, how much of it you may end up using someday, or how much of it is really technically advanced or cool. But I promise you, you will not be able to keep track of how many [bleep] names there are.

• 42:29David Imel?

  Yeah, I think that this I/O was like the biggest example yet of the fact that Google is like 3,000 companies in one.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:37David Imel?

  And that they just don't really communicate very much.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Because there's no cohesiveness or vision. It's just spamming. Like, it really does feel like there's nine different companies who each had three ideas to present and none of them talked to each other. And honestly, some of them step on each other.

• 42:50David Imel?

  Totally.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Like, there's Vio, and then there's also Nana Banana, and then there's also this new thing that's gonna generate images and videos. Like, why are there three?

• 42:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  So there's a real lack of visual strategy to what's happening. So, we'll break it down. We'll show you what's new. But again, I promise.

• 43:05David Imel?

  Google Photos.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  It's horrible. It's not just you.

• 43:07David Imel?

  Google Pics.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Google Pics, brand-new product.

• 43:10David Imel?

  Yeah, it's so much.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  It's not Google Photos or Pictures.

• 43:12David Imel?

  Yeah. But it will generate some of those.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I last night thoroughly watched this like three times to my own dismay.

• 43:20David Imel?

  Oh my goodness.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry. In 4X though, probably.

• 43:23David Imel?

  Uh, in 2X.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:24David Imel?

  But I tried to do 4X and I just couldn't keep up.

• 43:27Andrew Manganelli?

  There's still three hours if you watched it three times.

• 43:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Andrew Manganelli?

  The, the amount of times in the show where they said like, I think they said, and we're just getting started at minute 50. And I was like, what?

• 43:39David Imel?

  Don't do this to me. Yeah. Well, the first time, to be fair, I listened to it in the car at 2X and then I got home and I watched it again. Anyway, for some reason, they bounced back and forth between different products through the show. Like they would announce something like Omni and then later in the show, they'd talk about Omni again. And then near the end, they'd talk about Omni again. And it felt like because they took everything out from the Android show, they had to like pad the time because Google I/O is always two hours.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  It's weird. I try to like, think about who's the target demographic of these presentations. And maybe it's unfair to compare it to Apple, but like, I think regular people watch a WWDC recap to see what interesting things are going to be happening.

• 44:13David Imel?

  Bunch of my friends watched UpDub.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  I don't even, I'm not even going to make an I/O recap because so much of this is either not going to come out or it's going to be dead in a year, or it's going to be really interesting and then it's going to get stepped on by some other updated Google product in like three months.

• 44:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  So yeah, there's a lot of very technically advanced stuff and impressive things that they got to demo. How much of it will actually show up? Like the live docs feature was really cool. Are they going to ship it? I don't know. Is it going to last? I don't know.

• 44:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  But it was a really cool demo, so we'll tell you about it.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  I was also very confused about who this was for because I/O was supposed to be for developers.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 04

  And I feel like a lot of this wasn't even aimed at developers. It was like them showing off their dominance in web and search.

• 44:55David Imel?

  And token usage.

• 44:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that was a weird flex.

• 44:58David Imel?

  Yeah. Sundar was just flexing constantly about how many tokens they consume. And then at some point he was just like a salesman and he was like, if your company used Gemini Flash 4.5.

• 45:09Speaker 04

  You would save a billion dollars.

• 45:10David Imel?

  You would save a billion dollars.

• 45:12Andrew Manganelli?

  His one stat was like. 375 people have used 1 trillion tokens.

• 45:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like, that?

• 45:21David Imel?

  Which is such a weird.

• 45:23Speaker 04

  Also weird because flash 3.5 is more expensive.

• 45:27David Imel?

  Than 3 was?

• 45:28Speaker 01

  I think some of these flexes.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  Than 3.1, so it's like, yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Some of these things just felt like them saying, hey, we are the dominant AI company.

• 45:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  See these big numbers?

• 45:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  That's how you know.

• 45:38David Imel?

  I will say it's interesting that it's a developer conference, but in past years, they've had enough so that non-developers, like people like us, like the media, can like really understand and digest and understand like how you can use this in the real world. And this year, it was, it didn't feel like it was for developers really, but it, because it was just products that were being announced, but none of the products were things that people would actually use. So.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Only a few of them. Or if you were like an enthusiast, like a real enthusiast who's like, I can't wait to deploy Gemini Spark to shop for me. Like, there's, there's a tiny fraction of people who are like, hell yeah, this is awesome. I can't wait for it to monitor the price of jeans online to automatically buy six pairs for me when it hits a certain price threshold. But like, that's not most of us. I remember like eight years ago at I O, we'd all sit around being like, what are they gonna name the next Android?

• 46:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  And what's the big feature or two gonna be that they try to like show us is awesome?

• 46:31David Imel?

  What's the new Nexus phone that is gonna be under our seat when we show finish?

• 46:35Andrew Manganelli?

  When are we gonna delete that chain link fence in front of this?

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Never.

• 46:40David Imel?

  So, yeah. So because they were hopping around so much throughout the show, I'd originally just taken a ton of notes in like a linear fashion and then I decided to order them into main chunks. So I have a models section.

• 46:53Speaker 04

  That's where you messed up. You should just ask Gemini to do it for you.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  I did.

• 46:57David Imel?

  Which one? I did have Gemini do this for me, but then I went through and I like, yeah, I, yeah, anyway. Okay, so we have a model section. We have an agentic AI section. We have a retail section. We have an intelligent eyewear section, which is like the glasses. App and search overhaul section, and then the little ending weird deep mind thing, um, where we're on the foothills of the singularity, apparently.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Should we also save the intelligent eyewear section for the end for attention like Google did?

• 47:25David Imel?

  Sure.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  They got to that like 90 minutes into I/O.

• 47:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Which is crazy.

• 47:30David Imel?

  Yeah. All right, well, we'll start with the models. New models, obviously, Gemini 3.5 Flash. And there will be a 3.5 Pro coming in a month, apparently. I don't know why it's taken so long to roll that out. That's kind of weird. Google claims that Flash is four times faster in output tokens per second than existing Frontier models, and outperforms Gemini 3.1 Pro on key benchmarks. Which is impressive, if that's true.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  I want to be like the regular person translator for these.

• 47:57David Imel?

  Yeah, do it.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  I think that that essentially would mean for the super quick queries that you're going to AI for that use Flash, they will be really, really good, because they're benchmarking as well as Pro, and they'll be really, really fast. So you don't have to wait for it to type it out in several seconds of, oh, is AI going to even get this right? Ideally, it's way faster and way more accurate.

• 48:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Ideally.

• 48:19David Imel?

  Yeah. To me, it also felt like Sundar was trying to get Enterprise to sign up to use Gemini as their backend, because Anthropic is currently making a [BLEEP] load of money on that.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hey, do you make an app? Do you have like a thing that queries AI inside your app? Well, make sure it's Gemini Flash, because it'll be the fastest, best one, best experience for your app user.

• 48:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 48:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  It's rolled out already.

• 48:43David Imel?

  Yeah, it's already out, that's true.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:45David Imel?

  They also demoed the Gemini Omni World Model. So this one kind of confused me a little bit. What it is good at specifically is simulated physics and real-world reasoning to interpret combinations of text, audio, images, and video to generate realistic, editable video environments. They gloated a lot about how the model can do everything, but said, "For now, it's only doing video." And I'm like, "Okay, it can do everything, but it can only do video."

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So my translation of this is like, "Hey, have you ever wanted to make an ad-generated video, but you wanted to use some inspiration from a photo and a video and some text that you wanted to describe some extra stuff in it, and some other random thing you wanted to include? Well, you can now just loop all of that stuff in, it'll be one prompt." And Omni will turn it into something that includes all of that stuff.

• 49:39David Imel?

  Which the irony of all this is that I think the hierarchy of usability and value in AI is like coding is number one. Text generation is probably number two, but people like AI less and less the more you get towards video, right? Like AI image generation, mostly bad, but you could use it for manipulation to make memes of yourself for your friends.

• 50:00Speaker 04

  Rage bait misinformation is making a ton of money online. This is perfect.

• 50:05David Imel?

  And then, but then video, like I don't really know anybody who is hyped for AI video in any possible way.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11David Imel?

  In general.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  I could even like think about a couple of things I could use AI generated images for like visualizing like, hey, I've got this room. I want to visualize what this desk would look like in here with this wallpaper behind it. Okay, AI can help me see what that looks like.

• 50:25David Imel?

  Right.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  The video, brainstorming, maybe. I don't, I don't feel like that's going to be very useful.

• 50:31David Imel?

  Yeah. And they really did a lot of AI videos.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  And it's the heaviest, resource wise, like it's the most difficult to do.

• 50:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  And it's, yeah.

• 50:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Will Smith eating spaghetti.

• 50:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  It's getting better.

• 50:44David Imel?

  And they specifically were like, it's, it's multimodal. It can do everything. And I'm like, well, Gemini was already multimodal. So why do you need to call it Gemini Omni? Why didn't they just make an update to Gemini and say, we can now do real world physics?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Cause they need to name everything.

• 50:58David Imel?

  This is what we talked about.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  New Gemini Omni.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  The naming team needed a raisin. They went all out for this.

• 51:04David Imel?

  Yeah. Okay. So that's it for the models. Uh, there's new agentic AI updates. We have anti-gravity 2.0, which I know Adam was actually a little bit excited for. If you don't remember what anti-gravity was, it's basically their coding environment. That has all these agentic features where you can, you know, code inside of it and stuff.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. A lot of people were confused because anti-gravity 2.0 is very much like the Claude desktop app, basically. Or like Codex, I've heard. I haven't used Codex, but similar to that, where it's just like a chat or whatever.

• 51:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 04

  They still have the IDE. So anti-gravity was their IDE, but.

• 51:39Speaker 04

  I don't know what got lost in translation. I don't know why they named it the same thing. So this new thing now is anti-gravity that you talk to Gemini and it'll like do the things. But if you want to open up the code and look at it with a real, proper file structure and everything, you need to also download the anti-gravity IDE, which is a completely separate thing. And I don't know how much longer that's gonna be around. I don't, I don't know. It's very confusing.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  It looked, I know. It looked a lot like a general, like a regular Gemini app. Like, yeah, it's strange. Anyway, it's for developers.

• 52:09Speaker 04

  Wait, can I just, sorry?

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, go for it.

• 52:12Speaker 04

  So if you're using anti-gravity 2.0 to make something, but you want to make sure you want to look deeper, you have to open up anti-gravity? Well, so anti-gravity, if you, if you tell it to build the thing, it will do it. And then it'll be like, you can click here to look at the code and it'll pop up a little side window and preview like the actual code. You can scroll through it, whatever. But that's not typically how people build things. They have an editor for that. So anti-gravity, I believe, was, it's very similar to VS Code, which is a very popular one, open, like whatever. But that's a separate app entirely now on, on the computer. I think if you want to know if the Google teams talk to each other, there's your proof that they don't talk to each other.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  It did feel to me like there's one tool for generating code with AI. And then there's another tool with a different name for auditing your AI-generated code with another AI.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  But it sounds like they're the same name.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  But if, yeah. And then also like your regular code. So you can audit all of your code with AI. But AI coding sometimes makes mistakes. So you need someone or something to audit the mistakes. So another agent can audit your code.

• 53:17Speaker 04

  And if that's not confusing enough, there's also the anti-gravity CLI now, which is another terminal tool that is replacing the Gemini CLI, which was open source. And now it's not open source. So now you can control all of your agents, all in one, in the terminal. But you have to use their, their proprietary tool.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  And that's also called anti-gravity.

• 53:36Speaker 04

  And that's also called anti-gravity, the anti-gravity CLI. Yeah, it's going great.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Even if I was a developer, I would be really confused.

• 53:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think anyone showed up to their first day at work at Google and they're like, I'm on the anti-gravity team and they went to the wrong building? It's like in school when you sit in the wrong classroom and 20 minutes in, they're reading the syllabus and you're like, do I get up and leave?

• 53:55Speaker 01

  I've done that before, for sure.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  It's like, I get that they all do slightly different things, but they should be one thing.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  They should be cohesive.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Shocker.

• 54:03David Imel?

  Well, and the irony of all of this is the general Gemini app can basically do all of this stuff, too. Like, I've even like used the Claude app on my Mac and I've like updated my website with features and stuff through Claude. And you can just do it through the chat. You don't even have to use Claude code. But there is a Claude code.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:22David Imel?

  So it's like, they make all of these sub products that are more optimized for the main thing, but the main model can still do all of the things.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Probably to like some 90-something percentile of the specialized tool.

• 54:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:37David Imel?

  Yeah. I don't know. Well, they were very excited about Anti-Gravity 2.0. They built an operating system from scratch.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:43Andrew Manganelli?

  And plugged it into everything. Like, they were showing Google search things that were building stuff with Anti-Gravity.

• 54:49David Imel?

  Yes.

• 54:49Andrew Manganelli?

  All this stuff.

• 54:50David Imel?

  Which we will get to. But yeah, they built this operating system. They said it deployed 92 sub-agents over 12 hours to build an OS and that it cost less than $1,000 in API credits.

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 55:06David Imel?

  What use this has, who needs to build operating systems, I'm not sure. But I guess it was more of a, the scientists were more interested if they could, not if they should.

• 55:14Speaker 04

  That's exactly it.

• 55:15David Imel?

  Situation.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:16David Imel?

  And then they ran Doom on it.

• 55:18Speaker 04

  They could run Doom, yay.

• 55:19David Imel?

  So.

• 55:19Speaker 04

  Look, we're relatable.

• 55:20David Imel?

  Yeah, relatable. Okay, Gemini Spark. This is basically Google's answer to OpenClaw. It's a 24/7 cloud-based personal AI agent that runs continuously in the background. It can actively parse your data to give you daily digests, like a child's school emails for deadlines, monitoring your credit card statements, et cetera. Throwing out to trusted testers this week and rolling out to a new $100 AI Ultra Plan. So this is the other thing that they have multiple, the same name for multiple things. They now have three AI Ultra Plans.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  At three different prices?

• 55:53David Imel?

  At three different prices.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:54David Imel?

  That are not called like AI Ultra Plus or AI Ultra Ultra. They're just AI Ultra, but there's the $100 one, there's the two, now $200 one down from 250. And then they have the crazy one, I think.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:08David Imel?

  Unless it's just the $200 one. Anyway.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  So the way I'm thinking about this one for regular people.

• 56:13David Imel?

  The open claw thing.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  That, yeah, Spark.

• 56:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Like, if you think about using AI as I do prompt, then AI does thing. Then I do prompt again, then AI does adjustment. Then I prompt again, and it's like a back and forth thing.

• 56:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  The idea of an agent is it's able to go and do multiple things. It has its own agency. It has like the ability to do multiple things over time or in a row, or to go execute something for you.

• 56:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Without you having to prompt over and over again.

• 56:40David Imel?

  Right.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  I did find this decently useful and like, and then this is an example that'll come up again of like, I want to monitor when this thing drops below a certain price, but you'll have to check the market for listings of it over and over again. Let's do this every 12 hours for the next couple of weeks until we find one that hits the certain price.

• 56:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  That, that's what the agent would do. It would just go, hey, I searched again, here's the results. Hey, I searched again, here's the one that actually hit your, your price threshold.

• 57:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  So it's instead of you searching over and over through the agent, it does it with agency.

• 57:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like.

• 57:11David Imel?

  Spark.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  All of these AI companies have come up with sort of an open claw competitor. Like Claude now has one that can do it for you.

• 57:18David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  One of my friends, they lost a bunch of data on their hard drive. And so they were using a recovery tool, but the recovery tool estimated like 800 hours to like recover the data. So he set it up so that the agent would check his computer and check on the progress of it like every once, like one day and send him an update. So there are like some uses there.

• 57:36David Imel?

  Um.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  I will say the Daily Digest I'm actually pretty excited about.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  Because I've been getting like the beta one that gets like emailed to you in the morning.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  So bad.

• 57:44Speaker 04

  Really? I've found it pretty helpful.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I like the formatting of it, but the contents of it are useful. List to me.

• 57:50David Imel?

  Oh, mine is the opposite. I hate the formatting of it.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Really?

• 57:53David Imel?

  But I've actually found a couple of subscriptions that were like, oh yeah, I do have to cancel that free trial. You know, it reminds you of things like that.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I think potentially I've connected it to too many services because it'll just be filled up with like, a bunch of people left comments on your Google Docs and I'm like, I already know that. Like I haven't marked them as resolved because I need to read them later. And so it's just telling me a bunch of things I already knew. It's like, here's what's on your calendar. Well, yeah, I got a notification.

• 58:15David Imel?

  That's why I have the calendar.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  That's why the calendar notifies me.

• 58:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  But yeah, maybe I can fine tune it a little bit.

• 58:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:20Speaker 04

  It's fine. It's totally worth a trillion dollars of investment.

• 58:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Why don't you get an agent to fine tune it?

• 58:26Speaker 01

  I'll deploy Gemini Spark.

• 58:28David Imel?

  Deploy 92 agents to fine tune it.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:30David Imel?

  That's coming to the Mac desktop app later this summer for local file automation. So it'll be able to like actually touch your computer. Because right now it can only do things like on the web. So. Okay, um, three is retail. This is a grouped, a grouped thing for Universal Cart and AP2. So this Universal Cart thing is, is kind of interesting. Clearly, Google has been trying to make Google Shopping happen for like 12 years now, 15 years now. Where they just, they really, really see all the money that Amazon's making and they're like, we could have some of that.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  They want to be a trusted retailer so bad.

• 59:03David Imel?

  So bad. So, and then they saw what TikTok was doing with TikTok Shop. And so now if you look at YouTube and you go to like, you know, anybody's YouTube video that has a product placement. They now have right below the video, like you can buy this and you can click on it. You can go to it and buy it, whatever. Probably not enough people use that, that they want to use it. So they created this thing called Universal Cart. Um, which basically across Google Search, Gemini, YouTube and Gmail. You can add things to your cart. You can click on a thing and say you're interested in it, but when it drops below a certain price, you're kind of interested in it. And it connects to your Google Wallet. So now as well, if it knows like that you're, you have a certain credit card

• 59:45David Imel?

  and that certain credit card gets certain cash back at certain stores. It will be like, oh, when you go to pay for this, you should use your Target card because it's at Target and you get 5% off at Target or something like that. You get cash back, whatever. I really, really think Google is just trying to find more revenue sources because by making Gemini and making all this automation stuff, they are taking away from search ads. So they're slowly trying to, they're like, we're gonna get ahead in the AI thing even though it's taking away from our main business, but we need to figure out ways to make money from it if we're gonna own it.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20David Imel?

  Yeah. So it's kinda interesting, but I remember seeing the study where there was a bunch of, they tested a bunch of these different models at how good is it at actually suggesting me like the right flights, the right hotel reservations, whatever, if you were just to say like, make me this trip.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Classic.

• 1:00:39David Imel?

  And like 90% of the time, it gave the users like one of the more expensive options for the hotel, for the flight, all these things.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Also classic.

• 1:00:48David Imel?

  And so Google can now go to retailers and advertisers and they can say, hey, look, we can slowly sort of like suggest these products towards these users. And kinda the overall, the overarching theme for I O this year is just like, trust us more and more and more, bro.

• 1:01:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Which makes me trust you less and less and less.

• 1:01:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, cuz all I see with all of this is, I think you guys mentioned on an episode I wasn't here, is like the new version of S E O, cuz all of this is just going to lead into a different way that big companies can pay to be better results inside of AI.

• 1:01:22David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 1:01:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That is 1,000% where it's going, no matter what you say.

• 1:01:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That's how it's going to work.

• 1:01:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Andrew Manganelli?

  That's how people are gonna make money on it.

• 1:01:29David Imel?

  Google is just like, oh, just don't make your own decisions, like let AI make all the decisions for you, and then they're going to advertisers and they're saying, now that everyone just trusts us, we can just suggest your products.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Andrew Manganelli?

  They don't even, yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  It points pretty directly to the direct trade off between privacy and convenience, because, and this is also a shout out to Joanna's book, which you'll hear about that probably on an upcoming bonus episode, but like, if you just give your life to the AI, you just go, alright, you know everything about me, Google, it's kind of a privacy nightmare, but you have everything about me now. That is the best case scenario for actually getting the results that are most applicable to you, and so when you ask for it, yes.

• 1:02:08Speaker 04

  It will be skewed, but it will be skewed based on what it knows about you. And theoretically, it'll give you better products to buy or more useful suggestions.

• 1:02:16Andrew Manganelli?

  More tailored to you.

• 1:02:16Speaker 04

  It knows about your car, your house, or whatever already. And so if you do decide to just give it all to the AI, then that will be your win. But not everybody wants to do that. And obviously, that's the trade off that they're trying to convince you to make.

• 1:02:29David Imel?

  It's why a lot of people like keep the Instagram ad tracking on because they'll say like, oh, I actually like it because it gives me relevant products. And I'd rather have relevant products than, you know.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  Turn it off.

• 1:02:40David Imel?

  The lingerie that I get.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  There's literally no reason to have that on.

• 1:02:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Wrong.

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  I've gotten so many good products.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  People want to get.

• 1:02:48David Imel?

  Yeah, I told you. I told you. There's a divide.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Some people actually do want to buy stuff from Instagram.

• 1:02:52Speaker 04

  It's not that I want to buy stuff from Instagram is that it shows me brands from smaller brands like that aren't just like Amazon or Shein. You know, like I find actual stores from Brooklyn or something because they're using targeted ads. It's good for small businesses. It's bad for me, but it's good for small businesses.

• 1:03:07David Imel?

  That's, that's Facebook's.

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  No, bad argument, bad take, bad argument. Do not turn on app tracking for the sake of helping small businesses. That is ridiculous.

• 1:03:17David Imel?

  That was.

• 1:03:17Andrew Manganelli?

  But turn it on if you're.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  Helping small businesses by, by letting one of the largest companies in the world sell your data. Are you serious, bro?

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  How else are you going to find?

• 1:03:24David Imel?

  The small business has been spending money desperately trying to find good customers and this is the way they actually get to that customer.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not accepting any of these.

• 1:03:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I only make everything that I use.

• 1:03:34David Imel?

  The reason.

• 1:03:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Jersey, I sold it.

• 1:03:37David Imel?

  I know a few people who like use Meta advertising and they're literally like, you put in $10 and $30 pops out. So clearly there, it works.

• 1:03:47Speaker 04

  There's a lot of shit wrong with Meta, but that product is a money fountain.

• 1:03:51David Imel?

  There's a reason Meta is a giant, giant, giant corporation in that small, like everyone uses it. I don't think that, you know, only small business, whatever, but if you are a small business and you put $10 in and $30 pops out, I mean.

• 1:04:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. Unrelated and related, they're doing a ton of layoffs today. So. Clearly this is not great timing for any of this Meta stuff.

• 1:04:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Who is Meta?

• 1:04:12Speaker 04

  They laid off like 10,000 people this week.

• 1:04:14David Imel?

  Again?

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17David Imel?

  Oh my god. Okay, well, that's great. The other thing in retail is there is now this thing called AP2, which is Agent Payments Protocol. And basically, Google is scared that the agents are gonna hallucinate with your credit card information. That's what they are terrified about. They're, cuz they, you know, they, they want you to be able to tell your agent, like, "Oh, if this brand, like, if this shirt from this brand goes on sale, can you just buy it for me?" Which is kind of crazy to think about, like,

• 1:04:47David Imel?

  Something could just agentically, like, shop, shop for you without you having, like, discreet input.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  It's kind of close to what someone, so like, an ultra-rich person who has, like, a personal assistant.

• 1:04:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  They'd be like, "I mean, you'd be too rich to do this, but you'd be like, when it hits a certain price, "Just buy it for me."

• 1:05:03David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  "But we don't have personal assistants." But it's like, "Oh, now my phone is a personal assistant. I'll just have it wait on something for me, "And it has infinite capability of waiting and finding the right thing, and then it just does it."

• 1:05:15Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the weird thing of AI where it's like, that is a totally reasonable thing to ask, but at the same time, "Weird robot internet has my credit card number." Like, I, like, both of these things are true, and I'm terrified.

• 1:05:28David Imel?

  Well, it's kind of the next, do you remember Amazon dash buttons?

• 1:05:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:05:31David Imel?

  Yeah. So, for the young, the youngins out there, Amazon used to, like, give you, for $5, you could buy this Amazon dash button, then they'd give you a $5 credit. And it was a button that you could assign to any product on Amazon, so when you hit it, it ordered it for you.

• 1:05:45Andrew Manganelli?

  It was like, if you put it by where you keep your paper towels, like, something that you restock a lot on. So, like, every time my paper towels are almost up, I just press it, they're gonna come to my door.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Tide Pods.

• 1:05:54David Imel?

  Yes, Tide Pods. So, like, what Samsung and all these companies have wanted to do forever is put cameras in your fridge, so it automatically does this for you, right? That's like, cuz these companies, they're like, "Oh, if people bought things as soon as they ran out of them, "Every single time, and they bought the same thing over and over and over again, we could make more money, "Because that's more purchases per hour." Right? So, that's what Google's trying to do here. They're trying to make it, like, oh, you're, cuz all these ad companies, the main problem that they have with, like, the Facebook Pixel, all this stuff, they, they see that you're interested in something because you interacted with it. But actually getting you to make that- Payment and actually go through with the purchase is the hardest part of the whole thing. Yeah. And so Google's like, well, what would it take for you to buy this? Would it make it as frictionless as possible?

• 1:06:39David Imel?

  Would it take a $20 discount? What if it got to a $20 discount? Would you definitely buy it? Can I just do it for you? Like, yeah. So that's.

• 1:06:46Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a really good point. I feel like there's so many times where I have something in my cart and I almost buy and it's like, no, not right now. But there, the, there's way less commitment of being like, well, you know, like if you found this thing later and then it's just going to show up at my door.

• 1:07:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, chances are if that's what I was thinking in my head, I would go back to that in two weeks. Probably get to the same point and be like, I don't really need this.

• 1:07:07David Imel?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Google's trying to get past the, you don't really need this.

• 1:07:10David Imel?

  And that's something that Meta doesn't have because the, the only thing Meta really has is when you like hover over something for too long, it'll just keep showing you the ad like more and more often, you know? Yeah. Uh, anyway, this agent payments protocol, it's basically just a protocol that's helping agents shop for you, but making sure that they don't pass any weird boundaries and buy things that you don't want. I think this is kind of just security for them to get advertisers to actually advertise with them and for them to be like, don't worry, we won't make users return a ton of stuff.

• 1:07:43Andrew Manganelli?

  This has the potential to really screw up some smaller businesses who might have a bunch of accidental purchases that then have to be returned and maybe can't be put back on shelves or have like, yeah, lots of accidental, accidental purchases that could create waste and kind of screw over a, a small warehouse.

• 1:08:01David Imel?

  Yeah, because if you have returns and then it's worth nothing and yeah, so it's a whole thing. All right, number four, app and search overhauls.

• 1:08:09David Imel?

  Search AI mode got an upgrade to Gemini 3.5. Queries that are at an all time high because users are now treating search like a conversational partner, apparently. Allegedly. Allegedly. Sundar did say that like now people are putting more natural language into Google search, which I have actually found myself doing, because it used to be that we we knew the language of SEO.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Everybody under a certain age grew up learning how to Google something.

• 1:08:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Whether you had a class in it, or you learned some internet literacy somewhere, or from someone you know. So you have to know what words to type into Google to find what you're looking for. And then also like how to exclude certain phrases, or like put things in quotes to find like things together.

• 1:08:50David Imel?

  Dad read it to the end.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  That's like a that's like a skill that we all learned.

• 1:08:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  That under a certain age, people have not had to learn that, because they either just go straight to an AI agent, or an AI, and just type it in in natural language, and it finds it for them. And so now, yeah, there's this like blurred line of people who grew up not learning how to Google things, but then they just use natural language in Google, and it kind of works.

• 1:09:12David Imel?

  It kind of works now.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  And it kicks them to AI mode anyway.

• 1:09:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  It's fine.

• 1:09:15David Imel?

  It didn't used to work at all, and now you can you can do that, and it'll automatically do AI mode, and you can just keep talking to it.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:21Speaker 04

  Anecdotally speaking, I've been using that a lot more, just because the regular SEO speak that I grew up using doesn't work anymore.

• 1:09:27David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  So I've just been like trying to get something. So I'm like, OK, let me just ask it the way I would normally ask something.

• 1:09:33David Imel?

  Yeah. What's crazy now, though, is that Google Search now has dynamic layouts, which can code custom visuals for you on the fly. And it can also build shareable mini apps, like a weekend planner itinerary. So how this was shown off was basically, I think it was Josh Woodward that did this. But he's like, oh, I want to do like this weekend thing with my kids and my wife, but I'm not really sure what to do. Like, can you suggest me things to do? And so it builds this little mini app inside of the Google Search window that shows the weather, it shows like suggested locations, it shows like dinner places they can go to and stuff like that. And you can talk to Google Search to sort of modify it, and it will it will change the code of the app in real time. And you

• 1:10:17David Imel?

  can share that with whoever. Which a part of this, for me, I was like, man, people really want to offload every decision they've ever had.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  I just like the idea of

• 1:10:30Speaker 04

  Then your like wife comes over like, oh, did you figure out what we're gonna do this weekend?

• 1:10:33Andrew Manganelli?

  No, not yet, but check out this app that's trying to figure out what we're gonna do.

• 1:10:37Speaker 03

  It's like if you have a dog and like your dog is like can't stop throwing up. And so you take your dog to the vet and then you come to pick it up later. And you're like, so is my dog gonna keep throwing up? Did you fix that? The vet's like, I didn't fix that, but your dog is literally a transformer now. It's like this, I still have a puking dog. That's how I feel about Google search.

• 1:10:54David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's strange.

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  I've Google searched so many things during this show and the AI overview has been wrong about every single one of them. I'm just like, I'm so sick of this. Please do not build me apps. Please just serve me relevant information.

• 1:11:08David Imel?

  Yeah. I mean, it's funny that we like, remember when they added in the suggested snippets? Where it would like, give you the answer within Google search and people freaked out because they're like, people aren't going to links any, if you do this, people won't go to the links. And now they're like, if a kid searches, how does a black hole work? It'll just generate an animation on the fly of a black hole colliding with another black hole.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which is, on one hand, on one hand, it's way worse. The, all of the sources don't get any traffic. All of the people who worked really hard on all the information and research that made that possible don't get any credit.

• 1:11:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  But on the other hand, that kid just got an instant like explainer.

• 1:11:47David Imel?

  If it's right, if it's correct.

• 1:11:50Speaker 04

  That also confused me though, because they said they would build it every time on the fly.

• 1:11:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. There has to be some sort of, like, that's a pretty normal question.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Well, it's based on your specific query.

• 1:12:01Speaker 04

  But like, let's say your query is how does a black hole work?

• 1:12:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  There's more than one person searching that every day. Like, why are you rebuilding that every time? That has to be wasteful. Like, why not just?

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  I think, that's probably true, but there's, there's such a long tail of unique Google searches every single day. I think what they're thinking is in, in such a specific query, which is like, how? What would it look like if a black hole the size of a peanut collided with Manhattan? And it's like, boom, here's a simulation of that. Which, I don't know, maybe three people Google that every day? I don't know, like, how many people say that? But there's like a ton of unique versions of that question that it can build a tailored animation just to help you with. Cause they have TPUs.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  I've been trying to Google, what is the largest US data center by power consumption? Like by megawatts? And it gave me a list, right? Which seems like it's fine. The top five answers are hallucinations on the list.

• 1:12:53David Imel?

  So it's just like, what's the point of this?

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  I think these are more in like, longer, well-established, like if, this is something I've found too. Like, when you ask questions to Google about like, current events, or recent information, or recently updated things, it gets it wrong all of the time.

• 1:13:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  But if you ask it something about like, a 10-year-old science theory, or like, like an animal that everyone's been writing books about, or something that's not like, current events or brand-new, then you'll get stuff that's pretty locks, like locked in.

• 1:13:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Rock solid.

• 1:13:20David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  So. It's, it's the black hole stuff.

• 1:13:23David Imel?

  Yeah, it is, it is strange. It feels like Google searches, they're kind of just trying to nudge people towards the process of using a Gemini search chat, like a Gemini chat, as opposed to searching things anymore.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:37David Imel?

  Okay, Google AI Studio, now you can build full Android apps from scratch with a prompt, and you can publish them directly to the Play Store, which means we're gonna get a lot of slop apps that are terrible.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Here they come.

• 1:13:48David Imel?

  So many.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Next I O, they're gonna brag about how many new apps were created.

• 1:13:53David Imel?

  Guarantee it. This is so bad. Like, they should not let you publish these to the Play Store.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, well, they need a bar of being approved, because Google has a famously lower bar of being approved. Apple, it'll be like, oh yeah, you can use code to make apps, but it's not like, I hit a button and it generates an app from scratch, and then I submit it and it's in the store already. Like, there's at least some threshold to quality.

• 1:14:12David Imel?

  Yeah, but does, does that mean they're gonna have to hire like, 50 times as many approvers?

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yes, it does.

• 1:14:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're just gonna have one AI.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, true.

• 1:14:21Speaker 04

  They're just solving their own problems.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:14:22David Imel?

  Hey Gemini, is this good enough?

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  You made it.

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  Also, I tried this yesterday and it did not work.

• 1:14:28David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:14:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, the app that's on your Android phone is not out yet, but they have like, a web version of the AI Studio thing, and it just like, wasn't, wasn't doing the thing.

• 1:14:37Andrew Manganelli?

  What was the app you tried to make?

• 1:14:40Speaker 04

  Um, I forgot. Wait, let me look it up.

• 1:14:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Do people really have this many app ideas all the time?

• 1:14:45David Imel?

  Well, okay.

• 1:14:46Speaker 04

  Well, mine was a dumb idea.

• 1:14:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, I don't, can't even think of a cool dumb idea right now.

• 1:14:52David Imel?

  I think that, what a lot of people might do in the future, is like, there are a lot of apps that are paywalled. And if you're just like, I want a calorie tracker app.

• 1:15:01Andrew Manganelli?

  So stealing.

• 1:15:02David Imel?

  Yeah, that's what all this is. It's all stealing. It's all stealing.

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  It's also people want.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  A lot of people want apps that are specifically tailored to them. So like, there's a bunch of generic versions of apps that do something. Uh, I won't say his name, but I have a teammate who's like, I, I want an app that can like, tell me specifically if I need to wear sunscreen today. And all it does is intake like, how long I'm gonna be outside, what the weather is, what my skin tone is and all these other things. And so just like, there's no app that does that, so just build me the app and then I'll just do it for you. Where you could probably find an app that does like two thirds of what you're asking, but then

• 1:15:39David Imel?

  Too many features.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Is the developer gonna do the extra feature you want? I don't know. So just, it's, or maybe you want a task manager app. And there's a certain feature, oh, I just want it to be like this, but also with this extra reminders thing, where it's geo-tagged and it reminds me to do something when I get to a certain place. Whatever, I want an app just for me. Then this is your way of making an app just for you. So like, why put it on the Play Store? I don't know.

• 1:15:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  But that's why I see people making apps.

• 1:16:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Adam made us local Frame.io. That's just like, video player, big clock, add comments, export comments as CSV. It's perfect.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  That's something that, just for us, we would use it. We would never put it on the Play Store or whatever, but like, it's useful.

• 1:16:18David Imel?

  I mean, one thing that's cool about this too, is that you can export the app and send it to just friends and family, without putting it on the Play Store. So I think that's like, sort of interesting idea of making like, family apps or friends apps?

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:30David Imel?

  And stuff like that.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Ooh, a group chat? Oh, that's not bubbles, nevermind.

• 1:16:33David Imel?

  Wait, can we do group challenges?

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Turn the bubbles blue.

• 1:16:38Speaker 04

  I found my, um, my app idea from yesterday. And it also, this is a late episode, did they even test this? Because this goes back to an issue I've been having. So, on Fitbit, they have meditation minutes. And if you try to meditate for 10 minutes with a Pixel Watch, it'll vibrate on your wrists for the entire 10 minutes. So you know to breathe along with it. It's like, breathe in.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:17:00Speaker 04

  Breathe out. Like, they got way too cute with it. I just want a timer that will vibrate at the end of 10 minutes to let me know you're done.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  It'll play tanks the battery life, too.

• 1:17:09Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 04

  But, they don't have that. So I tried to have AI Studio build it for me, and instead it built me an interactive dashboard, where I can play with a fake Pixel Watch 3.

• 1:17:21David Imel?

  Which is technically really impressive, but not useful at all.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  Build a timer. You said, "Build a 10-minute timer." And it said, "What?"

• 1:17:30Speaker 04

  I think because I said, "For my Pixel Watch 3," it freaked out and it built a whole other thing.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  We might be on to something, though, with the group fitness challenges.

• 1:17:38Speaker 03

  Can we finally have our own group fitness challenges?

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  This is something we've wanted. Well, I think we should. This is the perfect ideal for us. We should be able to build a multi-platform group fitness challenges app. So that in our studio, we can distribute it among us and we can use whatever wearable we want.

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  And it'll normalize all of our stats, calories, steps.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  I can make it so I always beat Mark.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  No, that's...

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  I will look in your code. I will inspect your code with my agent to find out if you're cheating. Agent, look at his code. Yeah.

• 1:18:11Speaker 04

  Peer reviewed.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Anti-gravity, look at his anti-gravity.

• 1:18:14David Imel?

  Peer reviewed. Uh, okay. Google Picks. We referenced this at the beginning.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  What a transition.

• 1:18:21David Imel?

  Can you stop, Google? Can you stop? Google Photos, Google Picks, Google Images.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  They literally, they showed the slide. They're like, "This is Google Picks." And I was like, "Are you sure you want to handle that?"

• 1:18:32David Imel?

  Sure.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  Why are you doing this? Uh, this is a new text and hover image editing tool. Basically, it's sort of similar to, we talked about Google Books a little bit last week, how you can sort of like hover the mouse cursor over things and it sort of intelligently knows what you want to do with it.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  That's not Google Books. That's the Google Book.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  That's the Google, right. Because Google Books is...

• 1:18:51David Imel?

  You have to be confused with Google Books.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, Google Books.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Which is Kindle. Yeah, it's the Kindle thing. Yeah.

• 1:18:56Speaker 03

  No, that's Books on the Google Play Store. Google Books is the online literature database.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  No, that's, you're thinking of Google Play Books.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, no, no. Google Play Books is the Kindle.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  Isn't the online database literature thing like...

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  That's called Google Books.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:12Speaker 03

  Then there's also Google Scholar.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Scholar. That's what I was thinking.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  Google Scholar is also different.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  That's another thing. That's all the papers and research and PDFs and stuff. This is untenable.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  Do you know that the one, it's called Google Get F***ed?

• 1:19:28David Imel?

  Alright. Anyway, uh, so it's this text and hover image editing tool. Basically, you take an image in and you can say like, "Zoom out," and it'll like add extra-

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  It's a photo editor.

• 1:19:38David Imel?

  It's a photo editor.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Why is it separate from-

• 1:19:41David Imel?

  Why is it separate from Gemini? This is my question about every single one of these [bleep] products.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  Imagen is a Google DeepMind product. They're on Imagen 4 now.

• 1:19:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I was making another punt, because you said you can take an image in, and I was like-

• 1:19:54David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  Imagen is a- which is true, Imagen is actually a separate Google product.

• 1:19:58David Imel?

  Yes, correct. I- but yeah, but the-

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  So yeah.

• 1:20:03David Imel?

  Why do they have 50 of these?

• 1:20:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Why is this not in Google Photos?

• 1:20:07David Imel?

  Why don't they just say-

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  That's the first- as we were watching it, I was like, "So is this gonna be built into Google Photos, or is this separate?"

• 1:20:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Give it a year.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  Google Pics is separate from Google Photos, which is separate from-

• 1:20:16David Imel?

  Or literally, they can just say Gemini can now do this other thing now. Like, I don't understand. Why are they spinning them off into a ton of different products?

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Because this team is in a different building.

• 1:20:26David Imel?

  Oh, I mean, last year at I/O, they, they announced this big product and they sunset it last month. Like, I, I bet you, within a year, 80% of these are gonna be shut down.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's actually-

• 1:20:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think the people who make the Google logos are just like, "Check, oh, finally finished my backlog." And then they look at the just 25 new names that pops out of Google I/O, and they're like, "Oh my god."

• 1:20:46David Imel?

  They go to a thesaurus and they look up photo, and they're like, "What other products?" For every single thesaurus. Okay. Um, okay, they have Google Stitch and Google Flow now. They already had these, I guess, but they're updated. Stitch was a website builder, and now it's updated. And, um, yeah, it can build you websites in real time. And then Google Flow, uh, allows creators to edit 16 video scenes simultaneously. But there's also Google Flow Music, which can takes, like, they gave it an example of, they played a piano riff, and the guy was like, "What would this piano riff sound like if there was a bass guitar and a singer?"

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  It was insane. It was just in another insane demo. That somehow has a name and a product.

• 1:21:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  Like.

• 1:21:30David Imel?

  Which you should just be able to put the audio clip in Gemini and say, do this.

• 1:21:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:35Andrew Manganelli?

  We're getting to the point. In I O where they kept cutting to the audience and I've never seen.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:21:39Andrew Manganelli?

  A group of people who were more bored, like the amount of just looking down at phones that happened by at minute 90. It was rough.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  That's really funny. Yeah, I meant to bring that up. They kept cutting to the audience like every 30 seconds and and the first 20 minutes of the show, they were cheering for stuff and they were pretty pumped and Sundar would be like, and a trillion tokens. And they'd be like, wow. By minute 70, they would have like pause for applause on the teleprompter. You could tell and it would just be a few seconds of silence and then.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  And then they would just move on and you'd cut to the crowd and they'd just be like on their phones trying to figure out what's going on.

• 1:22:19David Imel?

  There was one point where the presenter said, and you can clap for this.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22David Imel?

  And I was like, oh, that's painful. All right. Basically, last thing, oh, no, because we'll get to the glasses, but last thing here with the app and search overhauls. Synth ID and C2PA. You don't know what C2PA is. It's content credentials. We made a dedicated video on the studio channel about it. That is also tied in with an M11P video. You can go watch that if you want to know more about it. But Synth ID is Google's AI watermarking feature where basically every piece of AI generated content that they make has like an invisible watermark in the metadata that other AI can, well, that previously only Gemini could read. And it would tell you whether or not something was AI. They're expanding that significantly to basically every company, which is really good.

• 1:23:06David Imel?

  Like that, that's something that's very important. It's very ironic that they're creating the exact thing that you now have to check. There was a, there was a part where I think it was Sundar was like, only one in four people can tell when a piece of content is AI generated. And that's why we made like made Synth ID. It has like the same shades of like, we've made this, this smartphone extremely like addictive. And so we have this digital wellbeing feature that you can use to use your phone less. So like, oh yeah, we, we've made this AI generated content extremely realistic.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  And so now we've developed another AI tool to help you decide if it's real or not.

• 1:23:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I think a perfect example of what we talked about before is like, the problem with this is, we created the tool that can spread a ton of misinformation, but also the tool that can prove it's misinformation. The problem is, is the 10 million people who saw the misinformation, 100,000 of them might see the watermark. The Sony tweet that you said before that had 13 million views, the follow-up tweet that explained it a little more, had 300,000 views. Like, people aren't looking for the update, they're reading the title, watching the image, seeing the video, and now that is fact?

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  And to be clear, it's also always in the context. So this is a, it's not a visible watermark. It's basically buried in an invisible form, so that when you scroll past this on your feed, you aren't thinking, oh, let me go drag this and check this to see if it's AI or not.

• 1:24:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  When you just see it in your feed randomly, you're not in the, in the context of like, thinking, is this AI or not? So it just doesn't get checked.

• 1:24:42David Imel?

  Which is why, and this is the first time I'm ever saying this, and the last time I will ever say it, Meta actually had a good idea. And on Instagram, they put the AI info thing, although AI info is terrible verbiage, and they should just have edited with AI or modified with AI or generated with AI. Uh, but that was [bleep] up, because if you used Photoshop at all, it would say AI info, which is all broken. But the platforms themselves need to support synth ID.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Another rare statement. To Twitter's credit, now this is where it gets weird. They tried to implement this thing where it auto-detects if the image you're attaching is made with AI or not. And if it is, then it has, it adds a little tag, so that in the feed, as you're scrolling, you don't have to think about it, it'll just say made with AI.

• 1:25:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, there's a ton of false positives. And I've uploaded images that are not made with AI, that it just tags them as made with AI.

• 1:25:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  So I'm not sure how it's reading that, if it's just trying to look at the image and decide, or if it's using C2PA, or some combination of that.

• 1:25:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  I don't know, but there's a ton of false positives.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  It, it needs to go a step further, not to bandwagon off that. It can't just be like, accurate, reliable synth ID usage. It needs to be like, and, it can't be like a black box, because when you have these platforms that are acting as publishers, if... Hypothetically, there's a politician that the owner of Twitter does not like. There's nothing stopping them from just slapping the AI-generated label on all of their

• 1:26:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Or the other way around, on there's something is AI-generated from someone they do like and taking it away.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. The only reason it has to be a black box is because of bad actors, like outside bad actors who want to abuse and show things on the feed and get through the algorithm without the tag.

• 1:26:17David Imel?

  Well, that's why C2PA has like a, has a trail that you can actually follow. Like when something has content credentials on it and you pull it into like the content credentials checker thing, it shows you every edit that's been added and when that edit happened. But I don't think that SynthID has that. It just shows, it just tells you if it's been, if it's been made with AI or not. But either way, it is really good that a ton of services are picking up on SynthID. It's just very ironic that it's basically like, Google's like, look at all this slop that you can make and trick people. And then there's also, they, they had a bunch of influencers like bake digital twins of themselves with Gemini Omni.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  I did not like those.

• 1:26:53David Imel?

  It was so weird. Like they had a Disney adult, uh, basically talking about her favorite Disneyland foods. And then they had her climbing a rock. And it was just very, uh, it was very like, it was just creepy and weird and, um, we shouldn't do that. Slop generators.

• 1:27:14Speaker 03

  But before we move on, uh, away from AI products and towards wearables.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  I can't wait till we move on.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  I just want to say, I think, I think we're going to see a lot more of this over the next year because there's so much like circular money in the AI space and there's so much money committed to these, these data centers. I did finally find a list and, and the, the most important number is that like right now in the US, we have about 18, 18 gigawatts operational. In the next like 10 years, we're planning on building 334 gigawatts. For perspective, one gigawatt is about as much as a large nuclear power plant produces. And so like all of the companies like burning through these tokens, for a large part are doing this on like subsidized money because companies like Nvidia are funding these like

• 1:28:04Speaker 03

  startups that are then buying tokens with the Nvidia money. So all the companies like Google that have, are starting to

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  What do they say, like their declarations of intent to like spend all this money on data centers?

• 1:28:18David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:18Speaker 03

  They need to find customers that they are not paying.

• 1:28:22David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  And like fast, because otherwise, like the dates, these starting construction dates are gonna start coming around and they're not gonna have the cash flow to, again, build hundreds of times of the electricity, you know, like.

• 1:28:34David Imel?

  I mean, OpenAI in particular, right? Like they, they have basically said like, oh yeah, like our numbers don't make sense, but next quarter, we're gonna add thirty, three hundred fifty billion new users.

• 1:28:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we're, we're gonna see just like tons and tons and tons of like these, these like AI product cases and just like a desperate attempt of like, hey, can you please, please buy some tokens that we didn't pay you to buy?

• 1:28:59David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:29:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you guys ever heard of the term Ponzi scheme?

• 1:29:04Andrew Manganelli?

  It seems really familiar right now.

• 1:29:06David Imel?

  Yeah, it's just that the problem right now is they're building so much infrastructure, but they just are not seeing the demand. And they're having a lot of demand and they're saying, oh, like, look at all this demand. We need to build the infrastructure, but they, they're building so much infrastructure because they say the demand is going to scale to that within the next 10 years, but the numbers are not showing that it actually is going to. And that's why Gemini is getting put in every single product because it creates demand that people didn't ask for.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  And usage.

• 1:29:33David Imel?

  That's what I mean, yeah.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:34David Imel?

  Like artificial demand.

• 1:29:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Getting rid of the thing you're actually using and replacing it with the AI overview. And then being like, look at all the people that are using AI overview.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, they actually clearly did that on stage where they were like, yeah, we've never had as many people using AI mode in Google search. And I was like, because I've mostly been using it by accident.

• 1:29:50David Imel?

  Yeah, well, that's what's good. It like automatically AI modes for you.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:54David Imel?

  So obviously.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  We have a lot of usage.

• 1:29:58Speaker 03

  This year, this year, we've seen a record number of people fall down the stairs. Coincidentally, we removed all handrails.

• 1:30:04David Imel?

  Yeah, it's, Alison Johnson wrote a really good piece at The Verge right before Google I/O about how Gemini is getting way too close to being like in your face a little too much. Like at first, it was like, oh, yeah, I can use Gemini for that. But now that they've put Gemini in every single Google product.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  The search box.

• 1:30:20David Imel?

  The logo is everywhere. It's like, do you want to do that, Gemini? You want to do that, Gemini? You want to do that with Gemini?

• 1:30:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Dude, opening a Google Doc, it just like surrounds your doc. There's something at the bottom of our page right now I've never seen before.

• 1:30:30David Imel?

  It's a new little toolbar.

• 1:30:31Andrew Manganelli?

  How many changes you want to make?

• 1:30:32David Imel?

  It tries to like edit your document for you. There's the Gemini logo in the top right where you can do the same thing.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  Dude, if you open Google Docs, it's just like. They are really trying to use like as much AI as possible. It's in the top right corner, it's in the bottom corner.

• 1:30:46David Imel?

  Because they have to glow about how much people are using Gemini at the next Google I/O. This is their whole thing.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:51David Imel?

  Anyway, okay, we're gonna talk about the smart glasses now.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we can talk about the glasses. The last bit really with the glasses is they saved it for near the end, but they unveiled that they would have what they called audio glasses.

• 1:31:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  But it's essentially the same product as Meta's Ray-Bans, but with Google's AI and Gemini instead.

• 1:31:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  So with Warby Parker, I think, and Gentle Monster, they have like these two form factors of these glasses with cameras on the front, with speakers, with microphones, with the compute on them, and you can talk to Gemini, which of course is linked with your phone and can do a bunch of things like deploying agents and all that fun stuff that they talked about through the whole keynote. You can do all of that with just wearing the glasses.

• 1:31:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I don't know why they're called audio glasses, maybe because...

• 1:31:35David Imel?

  Because now they're gonna have the screen.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  They're gonna have the screen glasses. So audio is the main way that you're interacting with Gemini, since there is no display. They will for sure at some point have a monocular and binocular version of like a display glasses, maybe that's what they're calling them in the future.

• 1:31:48David Imel?

  It's said next year.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  So that'll be coming.

• 1:31:50David Imel?

  Visual glasses.

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. But, uh, yeah, these are, these are the audio glasses and they are, I guess, in collab with Samsung and Wear OS. Wear...

• 1:32:01David Imel?

  Android XR.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  And Android XR.

• 1:32:03David Imel?

  Android, yeah.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Gemini.

• 1:32:04David Imel?

  They had some cool demos actually, though. They had the lady come out and she was, she had the glasses on and she was like, "Hey, can you direct me to that place that I went with Allison last week?" And it knows exactly where that was, and I think that's kinda cool. And then it's like, "Do you wanna stop for your cold brew on the way that you usually get?", which I thought was kinda interesting. Again, making more money for the advertisers.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  Everything is like, "How do I get your credit card information?"

• 1:32:28David Imel?

  How do I prompt you?

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Google is a phishing scam at this point. It's like, just everything they do just wants me, they want my credit card information.

• 1:32:36David Imel?

  Yeah, for sure, yeah. And then, um, as she's like walking there, it's like, she's like, "Oh hey, can you, can you order it for me so it's ready when I get there?" And then it agentically uses her phone and like taps through the things and uses DoorDash to like order it for her. Which I was like, I guess nobody's gonna be talking to the baristas anymore. It's like what happened with Starbucks. When Starbucks introduced their app.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:57David Imel?

  And it's like, tons of people will be waiting in line and then people will just come in and get their coffee because they had to prioritize the mobile orders. Because it was a new feature that they needed people to use.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  And it was probably most of their business.

• 1:33:09David Imel?

  It was, it probably still is most of their business. Yeah.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  I feel like we had it. We had that happen to us. Remember? I don't remember where we were.

• 1:33:14David Imel?

  Yeah, I remember this.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  Some event where like, we were at the front of the line for a solid five minutes and no barista talked to us or even acknowledged us. As they just went back and forth making mobile orders.

• 1:33:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  And people walked in, picked up their food and left. And we were at the front of the line for like several minutes.

• 1:33:29David Imel?

  Order in the store.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm so tired of every drive through. Are you using the app today? I would tell you if I was using the app today, please just take my order. I don't know why it has to ask me every single time.

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  I forget that they have apps for, for fast food now. That's great.

• 1:33:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is fine. I think that's like, I don't have a prob, I don't use them, but I don't have a problem with them. But you don't, you can just say hello. I use some apps. But the drive through should first say.

• 1:33:53David Imel?

  We're getting, we're now.

• 1:33:54Andrew Manganelli?

  What can I get for you?

• 1:33:55David Imel?

  Yeah, just.

• 1:33:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Or like, how are you today? And then I could say, oh, I have an order on the app.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then they'd give you your food?

• 1:34:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:01David Imel?

  Something I don't think that Google is quite prepared for is, so there's a lot of negativity around the meta glasses. You know, because people in general hate AI, but people especially hate being filmed without their consent.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  That's the main thing.

• 1:34:16David Imel?

  And then stuff being put online about it. And I've seen, there's clips of people who are like, people are like, hey, are those meta glasses? Are you recording me right now? Are you blah, blah, blah? And Google basically went through this with Google Glass 1.0. Because they didn't put a recording indicator on the front. I really, really, really hope that they're dictating that every Android XR glass device needs to have a recording indicator.

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  They didn't talk much about it.

• 1:34:39David Imel?

  They didn't.

• 1:34:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It's got to.

• 1:34:41David Imel?

  I hope so. But I just am a little bit worried that the more, because right now there's basically the meta glasses and that's basically it. There's like some other smart glasses, but nobody uses them.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  Ultimate ones, yeah.

• 1:34:50David Imel?

  Yeah, but like, nobody buys those. So I'm a little concerned that like, once, because the Android ecosystem of smart glasses, which will be a ton of companies at some point, once those come out, no, everyone's gonna be like, am I being recorded right now all the time? Right? Because at least when someone picks up their phone and records you, it's obvious to you.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:10David Imel?

  But the amount of unwanted recording is gonna go way up and the sentiment around AI glasses is gonna go way down. I wonder if, I mean, I don't know if they would do this, but I wonder if it's possible for Google to add some sort of a require, a hardware requirement.

• 1:35:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I would assume.

• 1:35:25David Imel?

  I think XR glasses. So it's like, if you want to use Android XR, you must have insert minimum resolution here, insert cameras here, insert like indicator, recording light. Yeah. That would be neat. Yeah. I hope so.

• 1:35:39Speaker 03

  It should be also when the glasses are recording, when you didn't ask them to.

• 1:35:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Anytime the cameras turn on.

• 1:35:46Speaker 03

  Anytime that sensor is detecting light, period. A light should be.

• 1:35:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is something that.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  Feels obvious.

• 1:35:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Pixels do, right? Or is it Androids do where like you can have the indicator come on that any single time that the microphone or the camera is turned on, there is an indicator in your status.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's an Android feature. So I hope Android XR has that as well.

• 1:36:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:06David Imel?

  Weirdly enough, like when Meta released the Ray-Bans and they were trying to get you to use the AI features and like literally nobody uses them. I always thought that the AI stuff was stupid. Uh, but that's mostly because I don't trust Meta and I don't trust Meta AI. But because you use Google all the time, I actually see a lot of use cases where I have a thought about. Cause I, I take photos about things and then search them all the time. So being able to do that and knowing it's Google on the backend, I feel a lot more confident in it. So I would actually probably use this type of product a lot.

• 1:36:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:39David Imel?

  Uh, the problem is the cameras.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. It just depends on how, how plugged in you're willing to be. Like imagine, imagine the magic queue moment where you don't even have a display, but someone texts you and goes, hey, remember that picture from, uh, the, the crane on top of Marquez's Tesla? And you're like, and the, the assistant on your glasses goes, do you want to just send him the picture?

• 1:36:59Andrew Manganelli?

  The funny.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  And it doesn't even show you the picture. Do you trust it that much? Do you trust it that much?

• 1:37:04Andrew Manganelli?

  And then it's like, mistos replied, what the?

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Why would you send me that?

• 1:37:09David Imel?

  Well, imagine you ask your glasses to buy you your cappuccino and you get there and you've got like a triple deluxe ham sandwich or something, you know?

• 1:37:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:18David Imel?

  I mean.

• 1:37:19Andrew Manganelli?

  You gotta take a picture of it with your so.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  Or like worse, all of the stuff you just said works on the first try. And then you're just this weird meat vessel for a Google data center somewhere.

• 1:37:33David Imel?

  Which is exactly what they want.

• 1:37:34Speaker 03

  Picture like, then like a few days later be like, yo, thanks for sending me that pic. And you're like, I don't know what you're talking about.

• 1:37:41Speaker 03

  I just wear the glasses.

• 1:37:45Speaker 03

  You just arrive at the coffee shop, you pick up your food, like, why am I here?

• 1:37:51David Imel?

  Because it just suggests you things nonstop and you just say yes or no.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  It's like, turn left, you're like, why am I turning left? Where am I going?

• 1:37:56David Imel?

  Coffee shop.

• 1:37:57Speaker 04

  I feel like a lot of these tech companies used to try to solve problems and now they're just...

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  Both.

• 1:38:02Speaker 04

  No, I feel like they're trying to like, guide user behavior instead of answer our issues.

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:38:07Speaker 03

  Have any of you guys seen Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan?

• 1:38:10David Imel?

  Yeah, baby.

• 1:38:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like the brain worm thing, like...

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  It is, there is this weird thing where like, I think a lot of tech companies believe that people don't know what they want until you show it to them. Which was true for a long time in a lot of things, but now with these convenience features, it's almost like you're guiding people along with things that... Come on, you definitely want this, you definitely want us to, to order that thing for you and like, direct you to the thing that you usually do and it just becomes like you sort of just following along the AI. Instead of making your own decisions.

• 1:38:43David Imel?

  And they want you to do that because then they can go to advertisers and say, hey, we can sell your product to people.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:48David Imel?

  Look how good we are. You don't, you shouldn't use Meta, you should use Google Shop.

• 1:38:51Speaker 03

  And then it'll all have been worth it.

• 1:38:53David Imel?

  Yeah, and then all the AI investment will be worth it. Um, okay.

• 1:38:56Speaker 03

  Are we old?

• 1:38:57David Imel?

  Yeah. Okay, you wanna, okay.

• 1:39:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This whole time I've been like, I hit, there's the line. We hit it, I'm the boomer now, like, kids are gonna be like, you just get with the time, gramps. And like, this is the line that I'm not with at times.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  It's weird because a lot of, like, in my life, I feel like I'm perfectly in the middle of regular people and then very much technology people. And everyone on the technology side seems to be very excited for the AI. And then everyone in my regular life is like, this is the worst thing ever, it's gonna kill us all. So, we, we kinda like toe that line and I feel myself going, I'm excited for it, but I'm scared of it, but it's cool, but it's like, why are we doing this?

• 1:39:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I can be flip flopping all over.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Optimistic about AI while totally fucking sick of what's going on with it right now and exhausted by it.

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  I wanna make videos about like, you know, AI stuff on my channel, but not like, AI AI, I wanna make videos about like...

• 1:39:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Top five prompts, dude.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  No, not like that, I wanna make like...

• 1:39:55David Imel?

  Theoretical thought provoking videos.

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  Deployed this week.

• 1:39:59David Imel?

  Yeah, more like, more like, what happens if this AI thing works and like, what does that say about society, whatever?

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  AI does kind of all get lumped together.

• 1:40:09David Imel?

  That's the problem.

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Into one big AI.

• 1:40:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  So if there are little pieces of it that are, that are great, like the tools we talk about all the time that we may use, whether it's like, oh, we got to make like a little frame I O that's for us that has special features, or even just like, help me cut something out of Photoshop easier. That gets something to the same AI as like all the chatbots and all the other things that are happening and all the AI on the glasses and it's all AI, so it's all has this label.

• 1:40:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  So it just kind of gets locked. It's like the same AI that lets you generate a useful widget on Android to help you track your run and how many things you're going to do before the marathon.

• 1:40:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Gets lumped into all the rest of the things that you've heard about AI for the past hour.

• 1:40:45David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the problem.

• 1:40:47Andrew Manganelli?

  We've been talking for way more than an hour.

• 1:40:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:49Speaker 03

  I think a lot of people just feel really insulted, given how many like serious flaws there are in the world right now, like climate change being a big one.

• 1:40:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  When people like Google and Meta come out and be like, no, but the biggest thing we need to solve is like, how do we get your Google Docs to write themselves?

• 1:41:06David Imel?

  And take your job.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  And, and we're going to do the worst thing America has done to the environment in 50 years to accelerate this.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  You know, they actually had a very, very, very brief section about weather models with AI.

• 1:41:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  That was super interesting because weather models right now are just throwing a ton of compute at a ton of data from all over the country. And trying to decide what the weather is going to be and how potentially dangerous weather could happen in certain places and trying to get as accurate as possible. And just from all the research I've been doing about weather models, these AI models kind of came out of nowhere and are immediately surpassing these ancient models that we've been using forever. And it's like, holy shit, this is like super useful for like determining whether there's going to be dangerous storms in these places.

• 1:41:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  And they just kind of breezed over that and moved to the next thing.

• 1:41:54David Imel?

  Because there was a re-announcement.

• 1:41:56Speaker 04

  Because they announced this like

• 1:41:57David Imel?

  It's been around for like a year, basically, since they started doing it. But like, that's the type of stuff that could make awesome headlines, super useful, really great stuff. They also had those like this very brief thing at the beginning where they're like, we're gonna cure all disease. And then they just moved on.

• 1:42:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 1:42:13David Imel?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what?

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  And I think the the proof that all of that is nonsense was in that in the the OpenAI Tesla Elon court case. When all in like all those internal emails that got released. At no point were Sam and Elon emailing each other like, guys, we're about to cure all disease. Like, we should just put our differences aside and cure all disease. No, the whole time they're like, this is gonna take over the world. I want to be the guy that's the super billionaire running the world like.

• 1:42:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:42Speaker 03

  Like, they don't even believe it's gonna cure all disease. It's just something they they say.

• 1:42:46Speaker 04

  But this is all, this is what Google has been doing for a decade. This is what their AI teams were working on. It's just that when ChatGPT came out and everyone was like, whoa, we could get money. They started turning it all into consumer products and now we are where we are.

• 1:42:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Speaker 04

  But they've had these alpha fold tools. They've had the weather models. They've been doing this.

• 1:43:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:05Speaker 04

  And it was just that they would work very quietly in the background with the people who it mattered for.

• 1:43:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:10Speaker 04

  And now they're trying to tell us all what it matters for.

• 1:43:13David Imel?

  Yeah. As soon as ChatGPT launched, they were like, oh, we have to make AI the main consumer product. As instead of just using it as a background tool. Because that's to your point, Mark, as about the like the weather models just being updated with AI features. What they used to do and what Apple used to do would just be like, look at this awesome tool that you actually can have a use for. It's powered by machine learning. But they would actually tell you what was useful about it. And now everything is just a demo of something that you could do, but you would never do.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  They do it like the other way around where they're like, we have this new feature. It's called AI blah.

• 1:43:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  And you're like, oh, boy, another thing.

• 1:43:46David Imel?

  Instead of look at this cool thing, it can do this. It's uses AI to do it.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  Machine, yeah.

• 1:43:52David Imel?

  Yeah. I think that's the problem with like these these hot these words that just get super hyped. And there's like no nuance in them, you know, like big data or like Internet of Things. They're like, they just call it under this giant umbrella and there's no nuance underneath it.

• 1:44:06Speaker 04

  Do you know what word is? Does live up to the hype? My brain is

• 1:44:12David Imel?

  Sorry, sorry. Yeah.

• 1:44:13Speaker 04

  Trivia.

• 1:44:14David Imel?

  What is that?

• 1:44:15Speaker 04

  Thank.

• 1:44:17Speaker 04

  You were ready, though. You were ready. You knew where I was going.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  There's two musics playing at once.

• 1:44:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm so stressed right now.

• 1:44:25David Imel?

  Yeah, this has been a really rambly.

• 1:44:27Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really hot.

• 1:44:28David Imel?

  It was a rambly, I mean, anyway, let's just get into trivia. Let's just get into it.

• 1:44:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm about to crash out. Two more words could have led to another.

• 1:44:36David Imel?

  This is gonna be the hardest edit of all time.

• 1:44:38Speaker 04

  Which of the following is not a real Google project? Firebase, Bazal, Angle, Apache Beam?

• 1:44:49Andrew Manganelli?

  How do you spell Bazal?

• 1:44:50Speaker 04

  B A Z A L.

• 1:44:53David Imel?

  Basil?

• 1:44:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Sure.

• 1:44:54David Imel?

  Like art basil? Well, that's E O.

• 1:44:58Andrew Manganelli?

  That would be how like a tech company making basil would spell it.

• 1:45:02David Imel?

  That's an I, though.

• 1:45:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I know, well, no, it's, I know, I'm saying they spell it different. It's also an S.

• 1:45:07David Imel?

  Yeah. I think it'd just be B A Z L.

• 1:45:11Andrew Manganelli?

  B Z L, actually, Brian.

• 1:45:13David Imel?

  You're right. Damn. Well, we'll think about it. And just at the end, like usual, we'll be right back.

• 1:45:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  That's J I R A dot com.

• 1:46:16Speaker 06

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 1:46:54Speaker 07

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• 1:47:25David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. We didn't talk about this because Google didn't talk about it. They put it in a little Android developer blog. But WearOS 7 officially got announced, which for those that don't know is the OS that runs on your Google smartwatch. There's some high-level stuff here. There's some stuff that's good. I'm just going to run through it really quickly. They're adding flexible and dynamic Wear widgets, so now they support new card layouts, which align very well for the mobile format, so they look the same on your phone and on your watch, which is good. You now have live updates on your watch, so if you know live updates like Uber or whatever that can sort of show you how close your car is, you can now show that on your watch.

• 1:48:01Speaker 04

  Or sports.

• 1:48:02David Imel?

  Or sports.

• 1:48:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, like Arsenal winning the Premier League.

• 1:48:08David Imel?

  Which is crazy that they didn't have that on the watch before, because it seems like that'd be the best place to look at it. But, you know, whatever. App functions. Allows developers to integrate their apps with agents so people can complete tasks using their voice. That's helpful. Task automation, users can invoke and track task automation, like asking your phone to order DoorDash for you. Now you can see that on your watch. So previously, you would like ask your Pixel to order DoorDash for you and you would see it happening on your phone, but you wouldn't be able to know what was happening in real time on your watch. Now you can see the steps it's taking on your watch to make sure if it's accidentally ordering you like a car off of Amazon instead of your burrito, you can stop it, which is good.

• 1:48:49David Imel?

  Workout tracker, there is now a rich standardized workout tracking experience that includes heart rate monitoring, media control and other things. So now if you're making a fitness app, there's a standardized layout that you can use to make sure that the watch app looks good. So if you just made the app for Android, you don't have to completely redesign a separate watch app. You can just use Google's standardized one, which is cool. There are enhanced system media controls, so there is per app media auto-launch controls, which means that if you open Spotify like on your phone, the media controls with like playback and like pause, forward, back, up, down, volume, stuff like that.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  It's so Android.

• 1:49:25David Imel?

  Yeah, so now if you, it's like if you open YouTube Music, it doesn't show up on your watch, but if you open Spotify, it does show up in your watch because they want to give you as much control as possible, I suppose. There's also an audio output switcher on the watch now. So if you have your phone connected to multiple sources, you say you wanted to come out of the kitchen or you want to come out of the bedroom, you can switch it from your watch, which is helpful.

• 1:49:47David Imel?

  And then they made the updated watch face format, which is a way to make watch faces. Now it's watch face format 5. There's enhanced alignment options, auto-size enhancements, blend modes, stroke joints and hierarchical settings. That's about it.

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  Type.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  I'm gonna use maybe one of those.

• 1:50:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:06Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so funny because that's something that would have been so good visually on a [BLEEP] screen on a stage that they had for two hours and decided.

• 1:50:12David Imel?

  Which is why I feel like they shouldn't even have done the Android show. They should have just made it half of I/O and then done the Gemini stuff.

• 1:50:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, so then an hour in, we could all leave and then they could talk about Gemini.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  For their attention.

• 1:50:24David Imel?

  Yeah. Did you want to talk about this camera thing?

• 1:50:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna talk about it for five seconds. I thought you might know more about it, but...

• 1:50:30David Imel?

  Yeah, I was in the wilderness.

• 1:50:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah. Panasonic Lumix L10. I saw this because on the X106 subreddit, someone posted, he's like, "Oh, is this the new X100 competitor?

• 1:50:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It seems like it's way more of a RX100 type competitor." But I then looked at it, and the coolest thing about this is how the lens comes out.

• 1:50:51David Imel?

  It's like a lens cap that is built into the camera, and it opens up like a little trigate.

• 1:50:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's got three flaps. Yeah, it looks like the, like, something in like Indiana Jones where they had to, like, shove a relic into a big stone door to open it, and it opens in these like three flaps, and then the zoom lens comes out of it. Anyways, it's a small, like, compact point-and-shoot camera. It looks pretty cool. Petapixel has a whole review on it, if you actually care about it, but the way it comes out looks really cool.

• 1:51:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That's all I had.

• 1:51:25David Imel?

  Hopefully you don't drop it while it's open and then break one of the hinges off.

• 1:51:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, to be fair, dropping both cameras in that op would be in a rough spot.

• 1:51:32David Imel?

  And to be fair, the flaps aren't that important. They just kind of act as like a dust protector.

• 1:51:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the gold color looks pretty sweet.

• 1:51:38David Imel?

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:51:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool. All right. Most important thing.

• 1:51:41David Imel?

  All right. So now that you guys have made it this far into the podcast, I know that you're real fans. You made it this far past all the rambling and all the stuff that we've talked about. And so instead of hitting with the code word in the comments, this is a great time to share with you something that we're really proud of that is maybe the coolest thing we've ever done. So you guys know the Marble Olympics, like the Jealous Marble Run YouTube channel?

• 1:52:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it jealous or jealous?

• 1:52:05David Imel?

  I only know about this because you guys talk about it all the time. You've probably, it's come across your feed at some point in the last decade. They're kind of iconic.

• 1:52:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know if it has.

• 1:52:15David Imel?

  They're awesome. They have essentially like a bunch of different events. It's like Marble Olympics, like a bunch of different events that they can run, and they all compete against each other.

• 1:52:25David Imel?

  They have sponsors.

• 1:52:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:29David Imel?

  These marble teams have sponsors.

• 1:52:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you undersold it a little. These, these people, the marble events, like there are sprints, there's hurdles, there's like javelin, there's everything you could imagine. There's Marbula One, which has

• 1:52:43David Imel?

  Marbula.

• 1:52:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Full-blown, like, attempted track recreations in a marble run.

• 1:52:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Where each marble is representing a different driver in Formula One, and they do qualifying beforehand. Like, it's completely out of this world with incredible, uh, like, they have the timing metrics and everything down for everyone. Anyways, yeah, it's awesome.

• 1:53:04David Imel?

  It's exactly what you're picturing.

• 1:53:07David Imel?

  We, we decided we'd love to get involved, and instead of just sponsoring one team, we decided every channel that we run should have a team so that we can root for them. So here on the Waveform Podcast, we do have a sponsor, uh, marble team.

• 1:53:21Andrew Manganelli?

  We do.

• 1:53:22David Imel?

  That would be, well, specifically, the Solar Flares are the Waveform team.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  Who are like an OG Gels marble run team. Like, Solar Flares have been competing for at least five years, if not, like, way longer. Yeah.

• 1:53:33Speaker 05

  It's the Waveform bros.

• 1:53:35Speaker 03

  It's awesome.

• 1:53:35Andrew Manganelli?

  We need their rookie card.

• 1:53:37David Imel?

  Yeah, we are, we are, we are proudly sponsoring that marble team here at Waveform, but that also means the autofocus channel is also involved. They are sponsoring the plasma team. The studio channel is sponsoring the primary team.

• 1:53:50Speaker 03

  I believe the studio channel's team has already been relegated.

• 1:53:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they got relegated.

• 1:53:53David Imel?

  That was fast. Yeah, they had a poor, some poor performances early, and the MKBHD team, the Black Jacks team, is doing really well. So, so, yeah. Now that you've made it this far, we highly recommend going over and checking out what those marble teams are up to and rooting for your favorite one. Maybe you're gonna root for the Waveform team, but you're clearly gonna root for the Black Jacks.

• 1:54:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna steal Alex's joke.

• 1:54:17David Imel?

  You're part of both of these channels, Marquez. I know.

• 1:54:20Andrew Manganelli?

  And that the Black Jacks team needs to be tested for performance.

• 1:54:23David Imel?

  They're doing so well. It's, I'm really proud of them.

• 1:54:26Andrew Manganelli?

  The Black Jacks team is, of course. Marquez is so good at everything, of course, he would pick one of the teams and destroy all of them.

• 1:54:32David Imel?

  It's the matte black marble, man.

• 1:54:34Andrew Manganelli?

  The one thing that-

• 1:54:34David Imel?

  Marquez doesn't actually need his competence to do and run. He still wins that. I'm very upset about it.

• 1:54:40Speaker 01

  The season, it's a long season. Okay. There's a lot of events.

• 1:54:43David Imel?

  You can still lose.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:54:45David Imel?

  We switch teams to our, to our collective team if we start winning?

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  Um, no, I'm gonna stick with my team. But you know, the waveform team should stick with their team too. We, we should, we should watch all these teams. We should watch the events. Some stuff is live too. You can literally watch them like as they happen. They're really exciting. So go, go check them out. We'll link whatever we can below so you can go support and check out our teams. Yeah, marble runs.

• 1:55:06Andrew Manganelli?

  We will retweet the first person who posts a picture with the solar flare marble merch watching waveform.

• 1:55:15Speaker 01

  The solar flare.

• 1:55:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Is that fair? You can buy, you can buy the team marbles on the.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:55:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Or, uh, you can buy jerseys, I think.

• 1:55:22Speaker 01

  Sounds incredible.

• 1:55:23Speaker 03

  Do you guys know who the marbles on the solar flare are? I have the team roster pulled up.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  The names of the marbles?

• 1:55:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, they have names? I forgot they have names. Yo, who's our roster?

• 1:55:32Speaker 03

  Coming from the seaside city of Meteorine, the solar flares participated in the Stardust Classic and won the Herbatania Invitational, allowing them and the Gliding Glaciers to be invited to compete in Marble League 2021 qualifiers. We are represented by... Actually, hold on. What am I doing?

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  Get the music on.

• 1:55:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Why am I not even seeing?

• 1:55:57Speaker 03

  We are represented by Flare, Scorch, Radiance, Ember, and Blaze. Aren't you glad I have that button just like ready to go?

• 1:56:11Speaker 01

  So we will be big time watching our marbles and supporting them through the rest of the season. Uh, because it's the most exciting thing we've ever been a part of.

• 1:56:20Andrew Manganelli?

  The main screen in our office is either our work calendar or Marble Run Olympics going on. The like four hour live streams of it and.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 1:56:30Speaker 03

  Disc golf too.

• 1:56:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah, disc golf makes it on there sometimes. That's definitely the bottom.

• 1:56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyway, thank you guys for watching and listening this week. I think it's time for that last segment that we always do. Trivia.

• 1:56:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you have a whiteboard? Oh, you do.

• 1:56:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:47Speaker 03

  Guys, I have before me four women's names, specifically Rachel, Mimi, Robin, and Shakira. What line of smartphones had all four of these as code names?

• 1:57:11Speaker 05

  Um, grass?

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  You are about to experience things that you can't believe.

• 1:57:22David Imel?

  I carried away over there. Behind the trivia music is crazy.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  There's so many good ones. David, we put this one in the soundboard.

• 1:57:34David Imel?

  That's honestly, it sounds exactly like my flex tape.

• 1:57:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Printer, right?

• 1:57:38David Imel?

  No, no, it's a scanner.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  What'd you put?

• 1:57:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:57:42Speaker 03

  All right. Marquez, you want to read first?

• 1:57:45David Imel?

  I said Samsung's A series, but I also wanted to point out that there is literally a phone called the Robin.

• 1:57:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah, the next best Robin.

• 1:57:52Speaker 03

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:57:52David Imel?

  Yeah, I was thinking that too.

• 1:57:53Speaker 03

  Andrew, David, you want to read your answers at the exact same time?

• 1:57:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Ours are not the same answer.

• 1:57:57Speaker 03

  Yes, they are.

• 1:57:58David Imel?

  Well, let's.

• 1:57:59Speaker 03

  Same with the same time.

• 1:58:00Andrew Manganelli?

  You said a lineup of phone, correct?

• 1:58:02Speaker 03

  Two.

• 1:58:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You said a lineup of phone.

• 1:58:05David Imel?

  Sony doesn't make.

• 1:58:06Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, you've been back for one day.

• 1:58:08Andrew Manganelli?

  If he said Samsung and it was the A series, would you have counted that?

• 1:58:12David Imel?

  Does Sony even make Experia?

• 1:58:15Andrew Manganelli?

  They have several Experias.

• 1:58:17David Imel?

  You didn't.

• 1:58:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I think.

• 1:58:17David Imel?

  You just wrote Experia. They have Experia one. They also have Experia five. They have Experia 10.

• 1:58:22Andrew Manganelli?

  What, what were the things? I actually was debating putting one or five.

• 1:58:26David Imel?

  But you didn't.

• 1:58:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Are they both wrong? Well, you just put Sony.

• 1:58:28David Imel?

  Is one of them right?

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  Guys, what even is this? Come on, man. You've been back for one day.

• 1:58:34Andrew Manganelli?

  LG and I was like, do I put G or V series?

• 1:58:37David Imel?

  Sony Experia, that's what I meant.

• 1:58:39Speaker 03

  How, how, how, how specific are we?

• 1:58:41David Imel?

  You haven't told, okay, look, you haven't told me the answer yet.

• 1:58:43Andrew Manganelli?

  What are they? What are the?

• 1:58:44David Imel?

  I'm gonna say.

• 1:58:45Speaker 03

  Those are all Sony Experia phones.

• 1:58:47David Imel?

  There we go.

• 1:58:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Experia what?

• 1:58:49Speaker 03

  Experia, so these are all, these are the first four Experia phones that ran Android after they switched from Windows phone.

• 1:58:56David Imel?

  So wasn't it Android?

• 1:58:56Andrew Manganelli?

  More than name, yeah.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  The Experia X10A, the Experia U20A, the Experia E10A, and the Experia E15. Oh, wait, those are the, the model that you, excuse me, the Experia X10, the X10 Mini Pro, the X10 Mini, and the Experia X8. So I could give neither of you the point because neither you put Experia X, but I think.

• 1:59:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Is there a Sony phone that's not an Xperia?

• 1:59:22Speaker 04

  It sounds like they want to be specific, so they got it all wrong.

• 1:59:25Speaker 01

  The question was what line and it's the Xperia line?

• 1:59:28David Imel?

  Yeah, but nobody would have been.

• 1:59:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I just feel like if you said that line or that what company?

• 1:59:33David Imel?

  But Sony only makes Xperia phones.

• 1:59:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I think.

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  They have more than one line.

• 1:59:37Speaker 04

  Ellis was gonna give both of you a point.

• 1:59:38David Imel?

  He didn't put the other lines.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  So do we both get it wrong?

• 1:59:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know.

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  Sony doesn't make non Xperia phones?

• 1:59:44David Imel?

  No.

• 1:59:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't wanna, uh, it's making me look bad, but I don't know. That feels like a very vague answer.

• 1:59:53Andrew Manganelli?

  But there's only one. I'm just saying.

• 1:59:55David Imel?

  They're all like, yeah.

• 1:59:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Just saying.

• 1:59:57Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't know what to do here. Okay. Here's, here's the thing. If I give Andrew the point, you know, then he's tied with Marquez. We get like this nice competitive thing. Oh, I'm. And then if I give David the point, he's even farther ahead of everyone else.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  I think that should be taken into account.

• 2:00:12David Imel?

  I think we should both get points.

• 2:00:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Neither of you got a point right now. In the comments, let us know.

• 2:00:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I won.

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  David, Andrew, both.

• 2:00:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Now that I said that, I lost.

• 2:00:23David Imel?

  Really?

• 2:00:23Speaker 03

  The point. What is, what is Gemini saying?

• 2:00:26David Imel?

  It was so implied.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  We'll let the comments section figure this one out.

• 2:00:29David Imel?

  It was so implied.

• 2:00:30Speaker 03

  Wow, guys. All right. Well, since no points have been awarded.

• 2:00:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Be so, bring Mariah back. Top number one comment. Easy.

• 2:00:38Speaker 01

  Andrew, you've officially initiated my grudge.

• 2:00:41Speaker 03

  I would like to kick off hour 39 of this podcast episode with an update to the score. Andrew, you are carrying the one with 25 points, maybe 26. We'll see. Uh, Marquez, you are just ahead of him with 26 actual real points. And David, you are still far in the lead with 29 points.

• 2:01:02Andrew Manganelli?

  There is a point where I was like double both of their scores put together.

• 2:01:06Speaker 03

  No, you did start this season with a huge, usually we're also so overdue for an extravagant answer.

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like significantly.

• 2:01:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Question number two, which of the following is not a real Google project? A, Firebase. B, Buzzal. C, Angle. Or C, Apache. Or D, sorry, Apache Beam.

• 2:01:28Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:01:32Speaker 04

  What do you guys think?

• 2:01:36Speaker 03

  Apache Bean. Or like.

• 2:01:40Speaker 03

  It's so hot in here.

• 2:01:44Speaker 04

  Flip 'em and read. What do you got?

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  Wow, okay. I'm different again from the other two. I said bee-bazal.

• 2:01:53Speaker 04

  Wrong. That is a real answer.

• 2:01:55Speaker 01

  Spelled it wrong.

• 2:01:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the spelling is.

• 2:01:58Speaker 04

  It's B-A-Z-E-L.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Like basil?

• 2:02:01Andrew Manganelli?

  That's not how you spelled it before, was it?

• 2:02:03David Imel?

  That's not how you pronounce that.

• 2:02:04Speaker 04

  Oh, I don't know.

• 2:02:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Basil. You spelled it B-A-Z-A.

• 2:02:07Speaker 04

  Okay. Bazale, bazale. It's a.

• 2:02:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Tomato, tomato.

• 2:02:11Speaker 04

  It's their own.

• 2:02:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Sony Experia.

• 2:02:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:13Speaker 01

  Their what tool?

• 2:02:14Speaker 04

  It's a build tool. That has built-in support for building both client and server software.

• 2:02:20Andrew Manganelli?

  And then we said C.

• 2:02:21Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't know, bro. I don't know. This is on their page. Google open source. All right.

• 2:02:25Speaker 01

  All right. It's called Basil.

• 2:02:26Andrew Manganelli?

  We said C.

• 2:02:27Speaker 04

  Is that how you pronounce it?

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, you said bazzal. I thought that was real.

• 2:02:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Bazale, bazale.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  It's literally called Basil.

• 2:02:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, it was, well, what Adam said wasn't real.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's why I should get the point.

• 2:02:39Speaker 04

  No, but it was real. It's a real thing.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  Bazzal is not real.

• 2:02:43Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know. I've never heard this spoken out loud. It could very well be bazzal.

• 2:02:47Speaker 01

  It's, I Googled it.

• 2:02:49Speaker 04

  And it's pronounced bazzal?

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  No, it's called Basil.

• 2:02:52Speaker 04

  But it's not spelled like basil.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  Not real.

• 2:02:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess it's a tech company.

• 2:02:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is how Google pronounces it.

• 2:02:59Speaker 06

  Basil.

• 2:03:00Andrew Manganelli?

  What does Google know?

• 2:03:04Speaker 04

  Andrew, David, what did you guys put?

• 2:03:05Andrew Manganelli?

  C.

• 2:03:06Speaker 01

  C.

• 2:03:07Speaker 04

  For angle?

• 2:03:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I forgot what it was for.

• 2:03:10David Imel?

  And I put both to be specific.

• 2:03:13Speaker 04

  That is.

• 2:03:14Andrew Manganelli?

  You don't have to be specific.

• 2:03:15David Imel?

  And I put an angle.

• 2:03:17Speaker 04

  All right, well, this is all gonna be determined in the comments because I'm not adding a point on the screen until you guys tell me whether Marquez should get that point or not.

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  Seventy-five. I feel like I've been robbed again. I feel like bazzal is clearly not real.

• 2:03:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, but didn't you just say that you?

• 2:03:34Speaker 04

  The audience will decide.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  You said, tell me which one's not real. Google bazzal. I said that one's not real.

• 2:03:39Speaker 04

  But one of them is very obviously not real.

• 2:03:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 2:03:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Was it?

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  I was right. There's two correct answers.

• 2:03:46Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll see.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 2:03:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Commenters.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  Commenters, do your thing, do your magic. Wow, okay, there's probably six minutes left on this card and it's 1,000 degrees in here. So thanks for watching, thanks for listening and thanks for subscribing. Stay tuned for more of your regularly scheduled programming, but also some bonus programming coming up soon because we're just, we're just that committed to you guys. And if you made it this far, comment bazzal.

• 2:04:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Comment, comment, bring Mariah back.

• 2:04:13Speaker 01

  They already will. They already did. See you guys next time. Peace.

• 2:04:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform was produced by Vox Media Podcast Network.

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:04:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Now Waveform was produced by Vox Media.

• 2:04:23Speaker 01

  Nope. You're doing great, sweetie.

• 2:04:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform was produced by Adam Alena and Ellis Rovin. We're a partner of Vox Media Podcast Network and our track music was created by Vain. So.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  All right, how long are you guys talking about the Fuji? Cause I got some marbles to talk about.

• 2:04:44Speaker 05

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• 2:05:29Speaker 05

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