Will Apple Make a $599 MacBook?

This week, Andrew and David take over the show once more while Marques is out representing Team USA! First, they talk about the rumor that Apple might make a cheaper Mac laptop before getting into Google's upcoming Duolingo competitor. Then they talk about the hectic Chat GPT 5.0 release, Elon trying to sue Apple, and Perplexity trying to buy Chrome. There was a lot that happened. Enjoy! Links: Watch Marques play Ultimate Digitimes - $599 Macbook rumor Android Authority - Google Translate APK teardown Xiaomanyc - Surprised ChatGPT by speaking computer language Techcrunch - Cassette app Verge - OpenAI charts and graphs Reuters - Perplexity offers to buy Chrome Verge - Ford $30k EV platform WVFRM Fantasy Premiere League Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  We need to remember what we lost, what they took from us.

• 1:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Dude, I feel like explaining to people how cool it was that you could go on the internet while your parents were on the phone feels so distant, but like, that was groundbreaking.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  You didn't have to announce, like, I'm using the computer.

• 1:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Mom, I'm on AIM right now. Can you take the phone call later?

• 1:45Speaker 02

  You just booted me.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another wonderful episode of the Waveform Podcast, sans Marquez. I'm your host, one of them, David.

• 2:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Hi, man, Drew, and I'm excited for this wonderful episode.

• 2:04David Imel?

  It's gonna be a wonderful episode, because we're gonna be wondering where the heck Mark has is, because he's still not here, and it's troublesome. He's coming back next week theoretically.

• 2:15Andrew Manganelli?

  You can watch his games on theworldgames.org. They're all free streaming, and you can watch the VOD, because it's in China, and it's usually on when we're all sleeping.

• 2:25David Imel?

  Yeah, the description. Yeah, he's still in China. Hopefully, he'll get back next week on time to talk about Pixel.

• 2:30Andrew Manganelli?

  He better.

• 2:31David Imel?

  Next week's Pixel week. This week, we have a lot of interesting stuff for you. Mostly, it's a very AI-heavy week, I'm going to say. Notably, OpenAI released ChatGPT-5 the next day after we recorded the podcast last week, so we're a week late yet again, so we're going to discuss that. But there are good things about that, because now there are actually reactions to it, and we're not just saying what happened. They brought back GPT-4O, because people apparently are in love with their chatbots now. Elon is suing Apple again, and Perplexity is offering to buy Chrome for a lot of money, and it won't happen. But first, we finally got our official first look

• 3:13David Imel?

  at the Pixel 10 Pro Fold from Google after they shared the Pixel 10s last week.

• 3:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I have not seen this yet, so I'm saving my live reaction for the podcast.

• 3:24David Imel?

  Wait, let's see your live reaction.

• 3:25Andrew Manganelli?

  You've already seen it.

• 3:25David Imel?

  Ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Live reaction, live Andrew reaction cam.

• 3:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, that's the Pixel 9 folds?

• 3:32David Imel?

  Yep, Pro.

• 3:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Pro.

• 3:34David Imel?

  Pro Fold.

• 3:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Pro Fold?

• 3:35David Imel?

  What do you think?

• 3:36Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the same picture?

• 3:37David Imel?

  Yep, that's right. All right.

• 3:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Sick.

• 3:41David Imel?

  Moving on.

• 3:43Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, I want to bring up something from last week.

• 3:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 3:46Andrew Manganelli?

  The end of the podcast, we had a discussion, it was actually a trivia question, that turned into a discussion about me putting folders on my dock.

• 3:54David Imel?

  Right.

• 3:55Andrew Manganelli?

  And I felt like everyone was attacking me here.

• 3:58David Imel?

  I'm sorry.

• 3:59Andrew Manganelli?

  No, it's okay.

• 4:00David Imel?

  I'm glad you felt that way.

• 4:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess, actually, first, Ellis was not here.

• 4:04David Imel?

  That's true.

• 4:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I would like to see Ellis's take on this.

• 4:06David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:06Andrew Manganelli?

  What, when you, what is your thought on having folders with apps inside them on the dock of your phone?

• 4:12Speaker 02

  What did I say to you when you showed me? Because I got back from being sick, and you were like, Ellis, I need your opinion.

• 4:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't remember.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  I think it was something along the lines of like, it's aesthetically, I can't cosign it, but I do understand the like, two-tap.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Uh, like, like the way your brain just sort of gets used to blind motor skills sort of stuff. You know what I mean? Like, I could totally see myself it being really efficient to just be like Spotify. Or Bank of America.

• 4:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree.

• 4:43Speaker 04

  For those that didn't listen.

• 4:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Until you download something new.

• 4:45David Imel?

  Yeah. For those that didn't listen last week, one of the trivia questions was how well Andrew and I know each other. And one of the questions was what apps are on our dock on our phones? Andrew has two folders full of apps.

• 4:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Two folders with 12 apps each. Uh, so I, you could have picked one of, what, 24 plus three others? 27 apps and you would have been correct on it.

• 5:07David Imel?

  I did get all four right.

• 5:08Andrew Manganelli?

  You did get them all right.

• 5:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, but so, yeah, I, I like it. It's like second nature to just click things. And if I download something new, it doesn't, because they're folders. They don't change. My app drawer, I like never go in my app drawer, pretty much.

• 5:21Speaker 04

  My, my overall argument is you can never change them or you're, you have to retrain your brain.

• 5:26Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I just change, I like, if I have to put something new in, I take the least used app and put it in that exact spot. So nothing else moves.

• 5:33Speaker 04

  That's already too much.

• 5:34Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not. Okay, whatever. Well, me not being, you know, really petty about this. Control F'd my name in the comments of last week's episode and found well over a hundred responses. What either agreeing or disagreeing with me, and I have the final tally.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm ready.

• 5:53Andrew Manganelli?

  In favor of Andrew and folders.

• 5:55Speaker 04

  Here we go.

• 5:56Andrew Manganelli?

  111. In favor of no folders, 18.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  So there's 111 people that are psychotic.

• 6:04David Imel?

  Do these people actually have the same setup though? Or are they just saying it's okay for you to be this?

• 6:10Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no. A lot of them said folders in. I specifically did not pick the people who said, this is such a good idea. I'm going to be using this from now on. I will say, the 18 people, you were all really mean about it though. Diabolical, psycho, like, it was name calling on top of, it wasn't just, this is wrong.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  There are dozens of us.

• 6:31Andrew Manganelli?

  There was, it was aimed directly at me, but.

• 6:35David Imel?

  Wow.

• 6:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I think.

• 6:37David Imel?

  Rude.

• 6:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I think folders wins. I, I'm just happy that there, it, a lot of them were Android users. There were quite a few people who said, I'm an iPhone user and still, and put folders in my, my dock. Thank you.

• 6:49David Imel?

  I'm happy that we have a diversity of opinions.

• 6:53Speaker 04

  You guys want to guess what's on my dock?

• 6:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just straight to the battery percentage.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And also guess my battery percentage while we're here?

• 7:02David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:05David Imel?

  Sixty-one, sixty-one?

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Andrew?

• 7:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Sixty-seven.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Andrew has it at sixty-eight.

• 7:12David Imel?

  Oh.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  We're cooking this morning.

• 7:14Andrew Manganelli?

  It's eleven-thirty. It's a little later than normal. That thing's...

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think I may have charged my phone a little bit in David's car this morning.

• 7:20David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, true.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  My dock is really boring.

• 7:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, we want to... Oh, yeah. What's on your dock?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  It's...

• 7:24Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the default.

• 7:25David Imel?

  Messages?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Close. Messages is on there.

• 7:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Safari.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Safari is on there. Phone is on there.

• 7:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Camera.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  No, there's nothing. It's just three.

• 7:33David Imel?

  Oh, yeah. I remember seeing that.

• 7:34Andrew Manganelli?

  That looks so weird.

• 7:35David Imel?

  When I was hanging out with you early this week.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:37David Imel?

  And I was like, oh, you have three apps on there?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And so it's centered.

• 7:41Andrew Manganelli?

  That's...

• 7:42David Imel?

  You can still center four things.

• 7:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you put five on an iPhone dock? No, right?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  I... If you... Not on the MIDI, if you can. I think you might be able to with the small... I don't know, actually.

• 7:52David Imel?

  All right. Well, we're gonna move on to our first, uh, actual story here, which is that Apple is reportedly making a $600, 12.9-inch MacBook running Apple silicon. We talked about this earlier in June, actually, because there was a rumor that there was going to be a MacBook with an A18 Pro chip in it, or an A18 in it. And now we have some more details, according to Digitimes, that says that this laptop could start between $599 and $699, which is crazy.

• 8:24Andrew Manganelli?

  That's crazy.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  That's a very specific range.

• 8:27David Imel?

  The price?

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Like, they're very confident.

• 8:29David Imel?

  Yeah, they're very confident.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  And not even like, oh, $499 to like $999. They're like, no, it's, it's within $100.

• 8:34David Imel?

  Yeah, well, $599 to $699, it's like, that is, that is pretty amazing. I think, uh, they're definitely going after sort of the, the cheaper, like, Chromebook kind of crowd here. A lot of Chromebooks are obviously still cheaper than this. But a lot of people are very used to macOS, or, you know, just want to have a lightweight, small, thin laptop. We've talked at length about how we want the 12-inch MacBook to make a comeback, because it was so incredible, so thin, so small. Uh, and I think that could be really cool. Min Ching Kuo, who is a leaker for a lot of kind of stuff like this, is suggesting that it could come in silver, blue, pink, and yellow. And would be powered by the A18 Pro chip from the iPhone 16 Pro.

• 9:15Speaker 04

  I would get one of these so fast.

• 9:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 04

  That's

• 9:17Andrew Manganelli?

  This is awesome. I mean,

• 9:18Speaker 04

  So sick.

• 9:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Even just on top of people wanting Mac OS and stuff, some people just want an Apple product.

• 9:24David Imel?

  Yes.

• 9:24Andrew Manganelli?

  And like,

• 9:24David Imel?

  That's true.

• 9:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we all know that. And for the cheaper you can make a person in class be able to open a laptop and an Apple logo point out, you're gonna make a piss ton of money off that. Like, if we're being honest.

• 9:36David Imel?

  It's also beneficial for Apple because they've already made a ton of these A18 Pro chips. And so the more they can make, the more the price goes down per unit. They probably have leftovers from the iPhone 16, you know, that kind of stuff. And that's the reason that Apple, for a while, was they were taking last year's Pro processor and basically putting it in the next year's cheaper phone. Because they were, you know, they, it was just a way for them to like use old stock to lower the price of the, of the unit. Now, sorry. Now, because it's the A18 Pro, it would not have things like Thunderbolt support. So it's gonna be a little bit less capable, but I think a lot of people would probably be okay with that. A question I have is whether or not this thing would have the Apple C1 modem that we saw in the iPhone 16E.

• 10:23David Imel?

  Because it would be very nice to be able to have a super thin and light laptop that had its own mobile data.

• 10:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Every time you bring this up, it's like, why don't we have that?

• 10:34David Imel?

  Well, it's mostly the modem stuff.

• 10:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 10:36David Imel?

  And now, it is very easy to tether to your laptop from your phone, especially from an iPhone to in a MacBook. And it even pops up pretty instantly that says, do you want to connect to your phone? So it's not that big of a deal. But I think the ability to just bring your laptop with you and not think about anything, a lot of people would pay for.

• 10:54Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I totally agree. I also, it's funny because out of all the things I would want on this, Thunderbolt is something I probably would want because generally in a smaller computer, you probably have less storage and being able to just have like the fastest SSD on top of it, especially because you're down to pay more because you've spent so little on the actual computer itself. But I guess if you're spending the less amount, you're probably not dealing with. Big video files or

• 11:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Lots of images, stuff like that.

• 11:20David Imel?

  The people that they're aiming this at are not necessarily people who are going to be dealing with that kind of stuff.

• 11:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  They accidentally made the Apple Silicon MacBook Airs like too good.

• 11:30David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, like, that's actually like such a capable computer for so many non-professionals workflows that like, it's kind of overkill if you just need something to like take notes on. So, yeah, I don't think anyone would miss Thunderbolt. Cause I think all Red Bull's computers are not going to be able to do anything in iMovie.

• 11:49Andrew Manganelli?

  And most of the people who are doing stuff, even with just like notes, documents, school stuff, all that's cloud-based at this point. Anyways, you're in like Drive or something, so it's not even taking up space.

• 11:58David Imel?

  Which ironically was the whole point of the Chromebook in the first place.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:01David Imel?

  So, yeah, Apple just wants a little market segment of that.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  It'll run Angry Birds really well, though.

• 12:07David Imel?

  True. Cause it's an iPhone processor. Okay, um, next story. Uh, Google is apparently adding a language tutor mode to Google Translate. Hey, hey, it was, it's kind of cool, okay?

• 12:21Speaker 02

  We agree. I am excited for this.

• 12:22David Imel?

  Oh, you're excited for this? Okay, so Android Authority did a teardown of a new Google Translate APK that included effectively a whole-ass AI-based Duolingo competitor, which is very cool. Uh, you can tell the app your goals for learning the language, like if you're going on a trip or if you just want to talk to some, like a spouse or something more often, and it will personalize the learning experience for you. So it's got an audio mode, which plays words and different vocabulary for you, and you tap the ones that you recognize. Uh, there's a speaking mode where you can practice your pronunciation. It looks very full-fledged, surprisingly, it looks quite built out. You should go check it out on the Android Authority website. They have a whole, uh, video where they, where they show it in action, so.

• 13:05David Imel?

  I mean, most of the AI stuff is just putting together like a little interface, like a specialized interface for you, so.

• 13:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I don't know. I'm terrible at languages. I wish I was better. This did remind me, though. Do you guys know that YouTuber that like? All of his content is like, I surprised blah, blah, blah by speaking like Ugandan.

• 13:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Speaking like Mandarin.

• 13:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like at a Chinese restaurant. Yeah. He did one recently where I surprised ChatGPT by speaking computer language. And it's really funny. You should watch. He goes into it by like talking to ChatGPT. Um, in different languages and he's like, can we just practice? And it goes back and forth. And then I'm pretty sure he starts talking in hexadecimal. And he just says a bunch of numbers and I'll be like. When it does that, ChatGPT starts going like, wow, you can speak in hexadecimal. And then starts like, can we go talk? In a different language and like, and then he talks about like the robot uprising. It's like. Chill, man. Let's go talk in like French again or something like that. And gets like really, uh, like nervous sounding. You should go watch it.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  That's very funny.

• 14:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I think his content is very funny.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  That's cool. Yeah. Um, should Duolingo be nervous about this?

• 14:15Speaker 04

  No.

• 14:15Andrew Manganelli?

  You're a Duolingo user.

• 14:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're the heaviest Duolingo user here.

• 14:19Andrew Manganelli?

  What do you think?

• 14:20Speaker 02

  What am I, chopped liver?

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, chopped liver, chopped liver. Ellis and I both have a streak that I keep failing at, but I think. This has potential to make them shiver a little bit, but I think Duolingo has such a like. Gamified version that this is more, I mean, from what we've seen so far, it looks more like very practical. It looks like, hey, I'm taking a trip next week or in a month. Like, let me learn some quick language things. So I know how to use the bathroom, you know? Duolingo is more, it's way more social. It's way more fun. So unless they start adding those types of features, I'm not sure that this is like any direct competition.

• 14:56David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't think that they're trying to make like a full fledged, you know, competitor. Um, but it is interesting to see something that Google has made that's been basically the same since they made it and adding all these additional features.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  I'm excited because there's a lot of. I shouldn't say a lot, like I'm trying to learn all the languages, but there are a lot of languages that Duolingo doesn't support still. And it doesn't seem like they're going to support them anytime soon. So that I are in Google Translate, so I would assume that Gemini can whip whip something up for me real quick.

• 15:26David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, so this is an APK teardown from Android Authority, so I imagine that this is going to launch very soon, which makes me wonder if they're going to highlight it on the pixels. That might be something they do.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  I mean, Gemini is already still pretty good at talking languages, like the other, well, actually, I'll do it right now. Hold on. Hey, I'm trying to learn Spanish. Do you think you could pretend to be a Spanish tutor and help me?

• 15:51Speaker 05

  Absolutamente. Me encantaría ser tu tutora de español. Que te trae por aquí.

• 15:59Speaker 04

  See, it kind of does this already. So like, I don't see.

• 16:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It would have been nice if it was like, hey, you're trying to learn Spanish, so I'm not going to just straight speak Spanish.

• 16:06David Imel?

  Yeah, just went directly into Spanish.

• 16:09Speaker 04

  Where you learn man immersion.

• 16:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I have a question about Duolingo. Is it all like, like you need to be present on your phone typing and pressing things, right? Can you just do it by listening?

• 16:21Andrew Manganelli?

  So here's my question, like you two are like riding the bus or the train and can do it on that. I'm driving a car when I'm commuting. Is there a way to try it?

• 16:28Speaker 02

  You want like the old school, like learn Italian.

• 16:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Kind of, well, because I can't use my phone when I'm driving.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  You know what is better than Duolingo that that should get them around for money? Just type in whatever language you want to learn on YouTube and then the word SpongeBob full episodes. And I'm like, not even joking, because if you're like us and you just know every line of the show anyway. No, but I'm not even like, it's actually been like so helpful. There have been multiple times where I've heard a word and been like, oh, SpongeBob said that. I didn't know that when he said it, like.

• 17:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe I'll just start watching SpongeBob with

• 17:04David Imel?

  Yeah, that's the pro move right there. Watching cartoons in the other languages. Okay. Thing. Lastly, before we go to break, I actually think that Ellis is gonna like this a lot. There's this new app from the maker of Crouton, which is that cooking app that they made like a Vision Pro version and it won like an award. It was, it's a very cool cooking app. They just released a new app called Cassette.

• 17:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I saw this. It looks so good.

• 17:27David Imel?

  Cassette is cool. I downloaded this morning. I'll actually just give you a little live demo. But basically what it is, is the idea was that we used to have camcorders and on these camcorders, you would just record a few seconds, put the camcorder down. A few days later, you'd record a few seconds of something, put the camcorder down, you'd record random events. And then the tapes that you would have at the end would just be these tapes of like random moments of time that were all just sort of stitched together and you'd label it like 2018 or like April 20, you know, 201996, something like that. You know, and so the idea of Cassette is basically to do that with your videos on your phone.

• 18:09David Imel?

  Alright, so this is the interface. It effectively creates all of these different videotapes of different years of videos that have been taken on your phone.

• 18:16Andrew Manganelli?

  And it has like a TV with a VCR above it.

• 18:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:19Andrew Manganelli?

  So it feels like you're like pulling out of your VHS catalog.

• 18:22David Imel?

  Right. And so you, there's a take me somewhere button, which basically randomizes which one you watch. But if I hit like the 2018 one, it takes it out, it puts it in the little TV. And then you can, you can play, you can fast forward, you can rewind, or you can like randomize. But it'll, I guess 2018 is probably not the best one to do because I only have one video from then. Uh, hold on. Yeah, there's an eject button. So let's just say 2023.

• 18:47David Imel?

  So it puts it in. There's vibrations. It's very cool. And then It basically puts this like little uh kind of like VHS effect on top of the video and it also puts like the location and the time and the date.

• 19:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It's pretty much like a uh, there's me.

• 19:05David Imel?

  Talking.

• 19:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I remember that. That was the scrapped YouTube short that we made. Um, but.

• 19:11David Imel?

  Another concert that I went to. I was with you.

• 19:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah, we were.

• 19:14David Imel?

  We went to this concert together. And it's kind of nice. You, you can just sort of just like watch all of these old videos that you've completely forgotten about.

• 19:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels like kind of a, a fun, a more fun version of the like thi- this day in like Google Photos, like X amount of years ago. We're like, you were doing this five years ago, but it's it's stitching it together. So you don't get the choice of doing it. And I guess it will bring back kind of like memories. Maybe you forgot about in a fun old way, even though it's very funny that it's pretending to be a VHS tape when almost all of it was definitely recorded on your phone.

• 19:48David Imel?

  Oh, yeah. But that's the thing is like your phone effectively is a camcorder that we use all the time and we almost never go back and watch these videos. But this sort of gives you like a fun way to, you can like sit with your spouse or something and just like randomly watch a bunch of videos that you've taken on your phone like five years ago.

• 20:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Does it take videos from your iCloud? Or is it only local videos?

• 20:09David Imel?

  I am not sure.

• 20:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Mine only shows like from like this week and last week.

• 20:13Speaker 04

  And Adam changes his phone.

• 20:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I keep changing my phone, so it's not very useful for me.

• 20:17David Imel?

  Yeah, it's probably your iCloud. Yeah, I'm not totally sure, but.

• 20:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's only iOS, correct?

• 20:23David Imel?

  Correct. Yeah, right now it's only iOS.

• 20:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Android users like to have fun. We have folders on our docs. We know how to have fun. Come on.

• 20:30David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true. Anyway, I just thought it was fun and very cute.

• 20:32Andrew Manganelli?

  It is really, it's a really clever app. I'm just nervous that this is going to be built into Google Photos like next week.

• 20:39David Imel?

  So

• 20:41David Imel?

  I actually talked to the developer a little bit. They said they want it to be Sherlock's.

• 20:45Speaker 04

  Why?

• 20:46David Imel?

  They said, we built this because we really want there to be more like of a vibe when you're going through these features and we like wouldn't mind it being Sherlock's because we're like not trying to make money from this. We're just trying to make phones a little more fun to use. So.

• 21:00Andrew Manganelli?

  That's exactly what I would say if I wanted to make a lot of money off this stuff.

• 21:03David Imel?

  Maybe.

• 21:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Because Google Photos does do this already, but it does it terribly. It does like a weird. Basic track in the background and like-

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Google makes it feel like a remembrance video. Someone died.

• 21:16David Imel?

  Yeah, no, like, um, Apple Photos also does this because there's now the memory movies that you can make where you can describe something. It's giving me suggestions. Moments with Leo over time, a relaxing afternoon in the park, evenings out in San Francisco with epic music. It already does this, but it's very like- Evenings out in San Francisco. Wait, I wish I would have made-

• 21:37Speaker 04

  I made the clutch move of ordering us pizza at 1 a.m.

• 21:40David Imel?

  And it has this like animation, which is cool.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Oh my god. You guys are so lame.

• 21:46David Imel?

  Wait, is it epic music?

• 21:50David Imel?

  It's like me having dinner with epic music. It's so cringe.

• 21:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, you picked the, oh, that's Google or that's in your gallery?

• 21:58David Imel?

  This is the, this is the memory movies through Apple Intelligence.

• 22:04David Imel?

  And it's just random like videos.

• 22:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's pretty rough.

• 22:09David Imel?

  Anyway, yeah, it's, it's pretty rough. Stop.

• 22:14David Imel?

  So yeah, I don't know. Fun little thing. Try it out. The, the nice thing is like you can download it's free and then you just, you can just watch some random ones and reminisce a little bit. And then if you're done, you just done it's all.

• 22:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask a question about it?

• 22:25David Imel?

  Sure.

• 22:25Andrew Manganelli?

  If it has a feature and if it doesn't, they should have this. Is there like a way to cast to your TV through it? Because that would be the best way.

• 22:32Speaker 04

  You mean AirPlay?

• 22:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Do they not, is there not Google Cast on iPhones at all?

• 22:38Speaker 04

  There is.

• 22:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Man, I'm, I really know nothing about-

• 22:40Speaker 04

  It depends on the app developer if they want to like put it in.

• 22:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Even AirPlay or whatever. I feel like the coolest way to do this would be it feeling like the VCR. And then it's casting to your TV like you're watching on an old TV.

• 22:52David Imel?

  I don't, I don't know about AirPlay.

• 22:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm gonna guess not. You probably have to AirPlay your whole phone screen.

• 22:59David Imel?

  Yeah, probably.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  Question for you. If I were to use this app just as a camcorder, will it do that? Like every time I open it up, it records on the same tape? Or does it just like access my album?

• 23:13David Imel?

  It just accesses your, yeah, there's no way to, um-

• 23:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Like record continuously?

• 23:19David Imel?

  No, you can't record through the app.

• 23:20Andrew Manganelli?

  On the same file?

• 23:21David Imel?

  You can't record through the app.

• 23:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I was questioning.

• 23:23David Imel?

  Yeah, and then the other thing is, I guess there is a paid version. Uh, that's a one-time purchase of $8 and it lets you manually select videos. So I guess you can't normally manually select them, but I think that's part of the point is that it's sort of just like randomizes and it's fun to just watch the old stuff.

• 23:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I find this so interesting, this trend of like all these old analog things coming back into form of apps because we miss-

• 23:44David Imel?

  Because we lost putting things in. Ellis and I were talking about this at his apartment the other night. Like Ellis has this amazing multi-uh CD mixer that Andrew gave him.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I was pointing out. I was like, you brought all this joy into my life.

• 23:58David Imel?

  And it's so cool.

• 23:59Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the only time.

• 24:00David Imel?

  It's so cool because you can, you can put up to five discs in it and there's a randomized feature and it, they're, the number of the song on the disc disappears after it plays. And there's just all these really cool-

• 24:12Speaker 02

  There's like a big grid of numbers from 1 to 25 or however many songs there are on the album and every time a song finishes, the number goes black and so if it's on shuffle, it'll like speckle out.

• 24:22David Imel?

  Yeah, it's cool. I don't know.

• 24:24Andrew Manganelli?

  My parents had one that held like, like 50 CDs in this. It was basically a big spinning rack that held them all vertically and would spin around and I guess it would like feed it into the thing and-

• 24:36Speaker 02

  My brother in Christ, that's a jukebox.

• 24:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Pretty much. I remember they, yeah.

• 24:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny because this is just how we used to listen to music. Like this makes me feel old.

• 24:45David Imel?

  I know. No, I don't know.

• 24:47Andrew Manganelli?

  You want to feel old?

• 24:48David Imel?

  Feel old, yeah.

• 24:49Andrew Manganelli?

  AOL's killing dial-up next month.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  Oh my, wait, it's still going?

• 24:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 24:53David Imel?

  There's a lot of people that still use dial-up.

• 24:56Andrew Manganelli?

  160,000 people, according to the 2023 census.

• 24:59Speaker 04

  Actual people that use dial-up or is it like fax machines?

• 25:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Or people who still pay, just don't know they're still paying.

• 25:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 25:06David Imel?

  Yeah, no. No, I mean, speaking of like, just really quickly, just the things that we've lost.

• 25:12Andrew Manganelli?

  None of this is on the docks, by the way.

• 25:14David Imel?

  I know.

• 25:15Andrew Manganelli?

  We're just going off the rails now.

• 25:17David Imel?

  Apple, in the most recent beta of uh macOS Tahoe, and I think the iPadOS version, added in preview because the preview app's icon is-

• 25:27David Imel?

  A loop, which if you don't know is like a little magnifying glass that you put on the back of a four by five camera. So you can see the critical focus that you're focusing on, or so you can look at a positive piece of film on a light table.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Those words mean things.

• 25:39David Imel?

  They do. And they added a little Easter egg where you can now move around a loop on the app. And it's just for fun. And someone commented, like someone had tweeted about it and someone commented, wow, typical Apple adding useless features. And I'm like, bro, if you like, come on. Do you want no fun in your life? Like,

• 26:02Speaker 02

  I hate whimsy.

• 26:04David Imel?

  Literally, I'm like, does everything have to be practical? Geez.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Also, before the, uh, before the dentists and jewelers get in the comments, uh, you know, loop is any sort of small magnifying glass that sits in front of your eye.

• 26:16David Imel?

  That's true. It doesn't have to be for film.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but it is.

• 26:19David Imel?

  I use it for that.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Or what's the, what's the camera one called? The, the Chapman's loop? The one that like suction's on to the rear screen.

• 26:26David Imel?

  Yeah, Chapman loop. Yep. So anyway.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Speaking of epic music in San Francisco. Oh.

• 26:35David Imel?

  What does that have to do with San Francisco?

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I thought we had a new. Speaking of epic music in San Francisco.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Head to head trivia.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  What's up? Welcome back to my first round of Superhead head trivia, because I was sick last week. But first, a correction, because two weeks in the future, I will make a mistake. And the reason I can say that is because that is when Trivia Extravaganza X point O comes out. But, uh, in that episode, which no one's heard yet, which we could just edit.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, wait, why? But we won't. Why are you editing? I said- For the meme. That Claude was a Dutch name when it's actually a French name. I forgot, uh, one of the most famous Frenchmen of all time, Claude Monet. Yes. Um, so, uh, I apologize for when that happens. Nice. Real ones know. No, they don't. Not yet. They will know. Yeah. Well, they know now. Real ones will know. It shall be known. Guys, in this second, uh, instance of super head-to-head trivia, the game where we ask you guys questions about each other to test your friendship. Uh, this time, we're gonna be asking each one of you one question about the other person per break. So this first round, David, we're gonna be asking you a question about Andrew. Ooh, okay.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  And that question is, what was Andrew's first job? I'm kidding. That's not the question. Oh, okay. It could've been. But, something that Waveform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of? Andrew's thinking? No, I'm thinking- Why are you thinking about it? No, I'm thinking of how Alice knows that. No reason. Cause we're buds. Yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  How do you know that? It was-

• 28:40Speaker 02

  I've got a tattoo somewhere else.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Framer. If you want to create a website that looks great, feels handcrafted, and comes together fast and seamlessly, then look no further than Framer. It's a complete website platform, not just a builder, so teams can launch and keep improving their sites in one place. It helps creators, teams, and businesses ship production-ready websites faster than ever while getting every detail right. You're able to prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, agents and humans work in tandem. Agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste, judgment, and control. And that all takes place-

• 29:28David Imel?

  In the same workspace where the real site is designed and managed and reviewed and published. Those ideas land on the canvas, stay editable, and can be published when the team is ready. Framer is an enterprise-level solution. Thousands of businesses from early-stage startups to Fortune 500s are choosing to build their websites in Framer, where changes take minutes instead of days. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/wave for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/wave. Rules and restrictions may apply.

• 30:00Speaker 06

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• 30:23Speaker 07

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 31:02David Imel?

  Okay, welcome back. The biggest story that we missed last week because it happened the day after we recorded, as usual, is that OpenAI released GPT-5, which is their newest model.

• 31:15David Imel?

  The big, yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, pretty much. This big AI wave kind of happened because ChatGPT launched with GPT-3, so we went through GPT-4, which was like a pretty massive improvement. We had GPT-4.5 for a while. There was a 3.5 in there, too. And then we've got all these micro models like 4.0 and all these things. But for a very long time, people have been waiting with bated breath because the jump from GPT-3 to GPT-4 was so big, people were thinking GPT-5 was going to be just as big. It's not.

• 31:44Andrew Manganelli?

  There's one thing I've seen about all this, and I don't even know if it's official, but have you seen that photo of like, comparing the size of GPT four to five? And it's like, there's, it's just a photo of a circle that says GPT four, a picture of the sun, which is like quite a bit bigger. And then a picture of GPT five, that's like three times bigger than the sun.

• 32:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Is this official or it's been on the GPT subreddit for a while?

• 32:09David Imel?

  I don't think so. When we were going from GPT three to GPT four, people were making a bunch of memes like this.

• 32:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, so this is probably a meme.

• 32:15David Imel?

  And they were showing like the data size scales and they were just making it like ridiculous. They're saying GPT five is gonna be this big. Uh, yes, probably not. So anyway, um, probably one of the biggest updates in GPT five is that you no longer need to select the model. We've talked about in Gemini, in chat GPT. The most confusing thing about using these products is that they have all these models like flash or like deep thinking or deep research, like all of these different things or pro, yeah, all these things. And for a regular person, it's like, well, how do you know which one is better for what? And it's confusing and having to do that is annoying. Same Altman did eventually say, yeah, this is really annoying. So one of the biggest updates is that they basically have an auto model router now

• 33:00David Imel?

  based on your query. So whatever you ask it, it's supposed to automatically route you to the right model for your task.

• 33:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 33:07David Imel?

  Which has saved OpenAI quite a bit of money, they mentioned, because you know, can use flash more often when people would use the the bigger model at different times, you know, things like that. Um, something that's also interesting is that pro users are soon going to be able to connect their Gmail, Google contacts and Google Calendar to chat, chat GPT now.

• 33:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't realize you couldn't already do that.

• 33:28David Imel?

  Well, this surprised me a lot because it seems like that's one of Gemini's most powerful assets, right? Like, Google has been in this incredible position because it has all of your data already. Not only does it have all of your like search data from just using Google, but it also has all of your emails and has your calendar and like the things that you want agents to do or that you want your virtual assistants to do is to take action on things like your email and your calendar and search through things for you. So that has kind of been a thing that chat GPT has not been able to. So it's, it's just surprising. I, I'm wondering and I'm guessing that there is some insane huge backdoor deal where OpenAI is paying Google a ton of money to allow for this.

• 34:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess can.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  I don't know the exact, what does it take to be able to like, log into something via Google? You know, like getting that pop up? Oh, off. It's like, uh, it's a thing you build into your app. So basically you don't have to handle any of the user data yourself. You just let Google handle it and Google authenticate to you.

• 34:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:31Speaker 04

  So I like, does Google have to pay? Cause like,

• 34:35David Imel?

  I have no idea.

• 34:35Speaker 04

  Can Google stop me from deciding like, I want to give chat GPT all of my information in that sense?

• 34:41David Imel?

  I don't know if like your Gmail, I guess your email data would be something that you could pass off.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's wild to do that. And I think, I mean, we do it all the time. When you log in with your email on like Apple Mail or something.

• 34:56David Imel?

  This is true. Yeah, this is true. This is true. And it specifically mentions logging in with Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Contacts though, which is, is different from just like the raw file types, you know?

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Does that include? I don't, I don't know if that's as crazy as we're thinking. Because that would be the same for me as like, logging into a calendar app, logging into an email app, logging into a different like phone app. Like it has all that information that I put in there myself, but it doesn't have like, my search history, you know, like Google still has that crazy amount of data.

• 35:32David Imel?

  Totally.

• 35:33Speaker 04

  And they get it by default. Yeah, by default. They just get it no matter what. You don't have to opt in.

• 35:37David Imel?

  Yeah, when you use Google search and you're like logged in your Google account, or if you use Google Chrome, like all of these are ways for Google to get more information about you. So I don't know. I'm gonna have to do some more research about that.

• 35:48Speaker 04

  It is interesting though.

• 35:49David Imel?

  Yeah, see if that's like a relationship.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  If you can just give that even top level information to chat GPT and ask it questions about your calendar. Like that's kind of what I want.

• 35:59David Imel?

  It would be very surprising to me that they didn't do that before, which is why I'm thinking there must be some sort of deal, right? Like, I feel like when they made all of the, cause they made all these GPTs that you could use a long time ago. They were like specialized for different purposes and it seems like being able to access your email would be one of the first things that they'd want to add. But who knows? So that's interesting. They bumped the contacts window up to 256,000 tokens from 200. Hundred thousand and they have a new nano model available that is cheaper than Gemini, apparently. Uh, anyways, it's been about a week since it launched. So of course, uh, you know, they launched it on Thursdays. Now we've had time to actually digest this update, see what people are saying about it.

• 36:40David Imel?

  And it's not all as positive as OpenAI would have liked you to believe when they announced it. Most people are saying that it feels a lot colder and more generic and data-driven than emotionally driven. Which is

• 36:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Great.

• 36:56David Imel?

  Which is really good.

• 36:59Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I want from my tool.

• 37:01David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't, eh, ah.

• 37:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate when things are data-driven.

• 37:07David Imel?

  I know. Yeah. I mean, one of the main updates to this is supposed to be that it hallucinates significantly less.

• 37:14Andrew Manganelli?

  That sounds great.

• 37:15David Imel?

  And that sounds great.

• 37:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 37:17David Imel?

  But there was a lot of backlash because initially when they launched GPT-5, they just killed the 4O model, which is like the previous model that people had been using. And apparently a lot of people got very upset about it because they had formed emotional bonds with their robots, which I really thought was going to take a little bit longer to happen. Um, but apparently not. Apparently it happened immediately. So that's not fun.

• 37:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I mean, now maybe GPT-5 will just understand when you're typing in a query that you wanted to be emotional about it and send it to GPT-4O.

• 37:50David Imel?

  Well,

• 37:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Without you knowing which one.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  This ain't Grok.

• 37:55David Imel?

  Yeah. Based on the backlash, Sam Altman did say that they're going to be tweaking things to make it have a little bit warmer of a personality. Uh, and then also give it access directly to the deep thinking mode when people want it. Um, also apparently people were saying it felt a lot dumber than 4O. And then Sam Altman said that on the day that it launched, the auto model switcher was broken. Which that seems like an excuse. I don't know. Anyway, a lot of people are not super happy with it. Uh, but I do think this is probably going to be the future of these services is that you're just going to have some kind of AI model that you go and just ask things to, and you're not going to have to be like, I want it to be faster this time. I want it to deep, like think deeper this time.

• 38:38Andrew Manganelli?

  If I'm seeing, if it sounds like the two biggest things here in terms of like features are auto choosing which model to use, that sounds like a great feature.

• 38:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I totally agree that like AI's whole thing is supposed to be like, this is easier. You can use your natural language. You can find stuff out without having to like learn SEO like speak. So being able to pick or having to pick between them before was dumb.

• 39:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:02Andrew Manganelli?

  And like really confusing. So doing that is awesome. Colder and data-driven also sounds incredible to me. I think that is a great move. And I think maybe I wish it was even colder and more data-driven.

• 39:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That sounds pretty good. So this sounds like a, they knocked it out of the park.

• 39:19David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 39:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess if people want it to be, nah.

• 39:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:27Speaker 04

  I guess it could like, the same way it auto detects your query and decides a model. It could like determine how warmly it speaks to you based on your question, you know? Cause if you're like, hey, I don't know, what's the difference between these two things? It's like, okay, let me be like friendly. And if you're like, hey, I have a medical condition, blah, blah, blah. Like help me figure this out, then it'll be like more to the point.

• 39:49David Imel?

  Yeah. They specifically said that it was much better for medical queries, which go see a doctor.

• 39:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Can you not just ask it? Like if you want it to be less cold, can you just be like, call me senpai? You know, and then it'll like do that?

• 40:06Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, I kind of assumed that, but like, that's the problem is if you can keep asking it to do things that you want. At what point is it not just feeding you?

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I need a partner to, I need a partner to at least sort of predict my needs.

• 40:17David Imel?

  I mean, this is, we've talked about this before, but a robot that is just going to be like affirming all the time. People are just going to turn into narcissists.

• 40:25Andrew Manganelli?

  There's plenty of Manosphere podcasts that you can go to that will do all of that.

• 40:30David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, I don't know. No one's going to push back on you or the AI is never going to push back on you. You know what I mean? So it becomes a problem. The very, uh, another very funny thing that came out of that launch was that they released a bunch of graphs to show how much better it was at certain things. And these graphs.

• 40:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Did they?

• 40:47David Imel?

  Made. Literally no sense.

• 40:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I saw Vergecast talking about this. It's basically like they're bar graphs and some of the numbers are not even remotely close and they're exactly the same size.

• 40:59David Imel?

  It makes no sense. Uh, this one is an academic graph that just says software engineering bench verified with thinking without thinking. And a lot of these graphs, like they're the exact same size, but they have different numbers on them.

• 41:12Andrew Manganelli?

  So it says academic and then it has three bars. The GPT five one is pink. It has two numbers. It's 52.8 or 74.9. 52.8 bar is higher than the bar next to it from OpenAI oh three, which is 69.1. And that graph is the same size as GPT four oh, which the number is 30.8. So 52 is higher than 69, but 69 isn't the same.

• 41:36David Imel?

  As 30.8. Yeah. They also had another graph that was deceptiveness and it just said it it was rated a 50. What does that mean?

• 41:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Same.

• 41:46David Imel?

  What does that mean?

• 41:47Andrew Manganelli?

  These AIs don't understand scale.

• 41:50David Imel?

  Yeah, it was. Yeah. And people called this out, obviously. And they were like, sorry, we made this like the night before the presentation and we were really tired. And I'm like, this makes no, no sense.

• 42:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like if you had given this to ChatGPT, it would have done a better job.

• 42:07David Imel?

  No, I think this was made by an AI. No way. Yeah, because they, they don't understand scale.

• 42:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Graphing is like one of the first things we taught computers how to visualize.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  No, they are bad at. I've, I've had a lot of trouble generating graphs with ChatGPT.

• 42:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Someone said vibe coded presentation.

• 42:27David Imel?

  It's, it's worse, it seems. So.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  They, they, they're good at stuff like that. Like there was a few presentations ago where like it was Sam and a few engineers around this table in their office talking about some release. And it was like the worst sounding video I think I've ever seen on YouTube. Like it was so shocking that this company worth seemingly infinite amounts of money didn't.

• 42:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I remember that. We were all listening to it. We're like.

• 42:50David Imel?

  Mike's.

• 42:53David Imel?

  This is so, okay. Deception evals across models, which doesn't tell you at all what that means. There are two graphs. One is pink, one is clear. The pink one is much shorter and just says 50 at coding deception, whatever that means. And then there's one that's much taller that says 47.4.

• 43:14David Imel?

  It's like, what is this?

• 43:15Speaker 04

  Have you guys used this this model yet? I have not.

• 43:18David Imel?

  I've I tried it, yeah.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  I tried it yesterday.

• 43:21David Imel?

  I don't really, it's whatever.

• 43:23Speaker 04

  It like, well, I don't know if maybe this was already a thing in four O, but I used GPT five with Gemini. And I was trying to figure out how to edit a Google script that I have, which like pulls numbers from YouTube Analytics API, like all this stuff. So I was like, OK, here's the script, do this extra stuff for me. And I assumed Google Gemini would be able to do it, and it just completely shit the bed.

• 43:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 04

  Which is like, it's a Google product and Google Gemini couldn't figure it out. But I put the same exact thing into chat GPT and it just gave me the right answer. So they're doing something right. I don't know, like, how useful that is to anyone else, but.

• 43:57David Imel?

  That's fair.

• 43:58Speaker 04

  It helped me yesterday.

• 43:59David Imel?

  No, it is surprising with Gemini, you know, they'll always make the announcements like Gemini can now do this. And I'll be like, awesome. And then I'll be like, do this. And it's like, I can't do that.

• 44:09David Imel?

  OK, I don't know. These things are nebulous.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  How do you get on chat GPT five?

• 44:15David Imel?

  It's automatically, it's already five. They they stopped allowing.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Really?

• 44:19David Imel?

  Yeah. If you just go to chat GPT.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  I just asked chat GPT, am I speaking with four O or five? And it said, you're speaking with four O, five is not out yet.

• 44:30David Imel?

  Case in point, my friend.

• 44:31Speaker 04

  It just didn't tell four.

• 44:33David Imel?

  No, no, it's it's only a five right now. There is a way to switch it to four O because people got upset that their little chat P P P model ran away from them.

• 44:44David Imel?

  Yeah, but it should automatically be five for you.

• 44:46Speaker 04

  This is the bad place. All right, well, let's go to some cheerier news, which is Elon suing Apple.

• 44:54Speaker 04

  We're only listing OpenAI as the number one on the App Store.

• 44:57David Imel?

  Yeah, so Elon tweeted, Apple is behaving in a manner that makes it impossible for any AI company besides OpenAI to reach number one in the App Store, which is an unequivocal antitrust violation. XAI will take immediate action. This is really funny because his tweet got community noted like crazy. First, the community note said in January twenty five, twenty twenty five, DeepSeek was number one in the App Store. Then it said in July, perplexity was number one in India's App Store. And both of these things happened before Apple and OpenAI's partnership was announced. So some also, someone also did the, um, Grok, who's right about this? And Grok was like, lol, Elon is completely wrong. And Sam Altman's right.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  Community notes and Grok have.

• 45:44Andrew Manganelli?

  hilariously been incredible because of how often it tells people they're wrong on the platform that they swear they're right.

• 45:51David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apple also responded to this when reached for comment and they said, "The App Store is designed to be fair and free of bias. We feature thousands of apps through charts, algorithmic recommendations, and curated lists selected by experts and objective criteria." And if you look at how many ratings and reviews Grok versus ChatGPT has, ChatGPT just has like thousands of more reviews. So that's a thing. People are using it more. I'm sorry.

• 46:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it was also funny because Sam started tweeting at Elon and they got into a little fight about things. And then I'm pretty sure like, uh, people brought up that OpenAI considers X links as potentially harmful. There are so many fun things, which is everyone losing. It was a great thread.

• 46:36David Imel?

  We, we live under a world of oligarchs, my friends. So anyway, um, lastly, last AI news, I promise. Perplexity has offered to buy Chrome again for $34.5 billion. This will never happen.

• 46:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Me too.

• 46:52David Imel?

  Yeah, true.

• 46:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm also offering $34.5 billion.

• 46:56David Imel?

  Yeah. For context, perplexity itself is valued at only $14 billion, but they got a bunch of

• 47:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Wimpy, wimpy, wimpy.

• 47:03David Imel?

  14 billion, but they did get a bunch of, um, funds that said that they would cover the rest or whatever. But this is not, this is not going to happen. Chrome is one of Google's main cash cows unless the government forces Google to sell it.

• 47:17Andrew Manganelli?

  So I wonder if like, having these public offers out there changes how like, how this might go down of, are we going to force them to sell it? Like if we see that there are other companies out there that are not Google that are willing to buy it and maybe would. That's the thing is like. It's clearly a monopoly. Chrome should be sold. I can't think of anyone who I would want to buy Chrome and not just assume that it's-

• 47:44David Imel?

  No, exactly, because the only people that could afford Chrome are the other monopolies. Like, you don't want Amazon to buy Chrome.

• 47:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 47:52David Imel?

  You don't want Apple to buy Chrome. It's all bad.

• 47:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's all bad.

• 47:56David Imel?

  It's all bad. I don't also want-

• 47:57Andrew Manganelli?

  It's cool seeing some numbers about what people potentially think Chrome is worth.

• 48:01David Imel?

  Value it at, yeah.

• 48:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Thirty-four billion.

• 48:03David Imel?

  Thirty-four point five billion.

• 48:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Couldn't even go to thirty-five billion.

• 48:06David Imel?

  I know, why is it like- Thirty-four point five. I guess five hundred million is a lot of money. So, yeah. Alright, well, that's about it for the AI segment of this podcast. Thank God. Um, we're gonna take it to an ad break, but first, Andrew's gonna get asked a question about me.

• 48:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm intrigued. I already forgot what the question. Oh, never mind.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  I keep hitting the wrong button. I'm just so sorry, guys, but-

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Andrew.

• 48:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Keen waveform listeners may have picked up that David is very musical.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  But what genre of music did David's band in college play?

• 48:57David Imel?

  I'm pretty sure I know. Many different genres.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  I'm looking for two in particular, and I'll accept either one.

• 49:03David Imel?

  Oh, two.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  One of them is a musical genre, the other one is an occupation.

• 49:10Andrew Manganelli?

  That I don't know what that is. I know what instrument he played, too.

• 49:14David Imel?

  I don't even know what that means.

• 49:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Hearing that described as an occupation is hilarious. You'll get it later.

• 49:19David Imel?

  Okay.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  If someone, it was submitted, uh, many times as an occupation during our Family Feud episode a little while back. Like, two years ago.

• 49:27David Imel?

  An occupation. Alright.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  I really hope I'm remembering this right about you, David. I think I am.

• 49:32David Imel?

  Well, I'll verify that at the end, like usual. We'll be back.

• 49:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Do it.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 50:39Speaker 08

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• 51:09Speaker 09

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• 51:38Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, welcome back. Two more.

• 51:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, we're back already and I got booed. Two pretty quick things to talk about.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Not by us.

• 51:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Ford sort of released something.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Just like you.

• 51:55Andrew Manganelli?

  All the headlines will say Ford's announcing a $30,000 EV truck. It's not exactly what they did, but I'll get into that.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  That's what I'm titling this episode.

• 52:04Andrew Manganelli?

  That's okay. Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Were you about to say Jim Ford? Just like Tim Apple.

• 52:12Andrew Manganelli?

  So he announced this week, something that he is calling a Model T moment in history. Which is a great marketing scheme.

• 52:23Andrew Manganelli?

  David and Ellis both just T-posed at the same time. But the reason he can kind of call it this is because it's less about the actual truck that he's announcing and more about the assembly line that and how they're going to be producing EVs in the future.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:40Andrew Manganelli?

  So this is their way of getting into a more affordable EV, kind of like the way Model Ts was the way with the assembly line to construct vehicles for a more middle-class America back in... When was that, Ellis? You seem like you'd know when the Model T came out.

• 52:56Speaker 04

  That is something Ellis would know.

• 52:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Ellis?

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Model T release date. Model T came out in 1920.

• 53:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you just write Model T release date?

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Am I wrong? Is it 23, 20? It's either 3, 6, or 9. It was 1908. It was 1908?

• 53:13Speaker 04

  They stopped making it in 27.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Wow, it's entire product generation. That was the Model T2. Joke's on you guys, I didn't know that.

• 53:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Anyways, the kind of cool thing about this is that it's not just a linear assembly line. They announced that this would be...

• 53:31Speaker 04

  Multithreaded?

• 53:32Andrew Manganelli?

  They were calling it like a tree.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, a tree.

• 53:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Where three separate lines can start production on different parts of the car simultaneously and they would all funnel down into the end of the assembly line.

• 53:45Speaker 04

  Was no one already doing this?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I don't know, man, I don't know anything about...

• 53:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I really don't know about assembly lines and stuff like that. So they're doing a lot of other things to make these cars more efficient in terms of like automation on the assembly line and things like it says 20% fewer parts, 25% fewer fasteners, and 4,000 feet shorter of wiring inside it versus the Mustang Mach-E.

• 54:07David Imel?

  Where would that be on the OpenAI bar graph?

• 54:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it'd be right between Sun and GPT-4O.

• 54:12Speaker 04

  It's right next to 48.

• 54:14David Imel?

  It's right next to deceptiveness.

• 54:17Andrew Manganelli?

  They're also gonna be using lithium iron phosphate batteries, which they say will save space and weight.

• 54:23David Imel?

  With an iron or iron?

• 54:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Cheaper types of batteries. Iron.

• 54:26David Imel?

  Iron.

• 54:27Speaker 04

  Iron? Like, like FE?

• 54:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I think so.

• 54:32Speaker 04

  Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay, sorry, continue.

• 54:34Andrew Manganelli?

  This is all still just like, we're not gonna see production of this till 2025. The $30,000 truck.

• 54:39David Imel?

  It is 2025.

• 54:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Or, sorry, 2027. Damn, that would be crazy. There's no pictures of this truck. They say it's 30,000. It's going to have a 0 to 60 of 4.5 seconds. It's going to be four-door, more cubic feet in like interior space than a RAV4, and then that's not including the front. And they claim the trunk or the truck of the bed will be able to fit a surfboard and accessories without the use of a roof rack. What's confusing about that is I'm pretty sure you can just lean a surfboard up on a truck of a bed, so I can't tell the actual size, and there's also many different sized surfboards.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  Also, that doesn't sound very mid-sized truck anymore. That just sounds like a big old truck.

• 55:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It does. I think everyone's just assuming this is gonna be a Ranger size, which is in the truck world.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  That's a small truck, yeah.

• 55:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Smaller truck.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:32Andrew Manganelli?

  So, yeah, but it's not just gonna be trucks, it's gonna be SUVs, pretty much all. We're talking about platform and assembly here. Which is cool, but it's also-

• 55:40Speaker 04

  For the slate, basically, like the slate truck that was announced?

• 55:43Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounds bigger than the slate, but it sounds similar to that line of like, the slate is they'll pick all your different parts, like à la carte style. This is more like how we've talked about EV companies building kind of like bases of vehicles, so then they can make multiple different, yeah, platforms.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  The canoe, RIP.

• 56:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. So, we'll see. This is a really big announcement for production now, starting for one and a half years, and we have zero photos of the truck. They did say there's apparently like a rumored some design of the truck going around to like Ford workers, and some people have seen it. So maybe we'll see a leak of it sometime in the future, but-

• 56:21David Imel?

  I'm also gonna release a $20,000 EV.

• 56:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you have a website where I can reserve now with a hundred dollar?

• 56:28David Imel?

  Hundred dollar down free offer, not a fundable?

• 56:31Andrew Manganelli?

  If so, please link it in the show notes.

• 56:33David Imel?

  Alright.

• 56:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, one more thing.

• 56:34David Imel?

  Okay.

• 56:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you noticed Reddit now has games?

• 56:38David Imel?

  I have not, thank god. Gamers can't afford this.

• 56:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, the Reddit app.

• 56:43David Imel?

  If you're a gamer, you cannot afford this.

• 56:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone's favorite Reddit app that's totally not terrible at all. I noticed this weekend now, above my communities, above my most recently visited apps, has a sidebar for Reddit games. Which, first of all, why are we doing games on everything? Netflix has it.

• 57:03David Imel?

  YouTube.

• 57:04Andrew Manganelli?

  YouTube has it.

• 57:05David Imel?

  Oh my god.

• 57:05Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels like everybody's trying to do, be the next like random app that has Farmville that like a bunch of people get addicted to.

• 57:11David Imel?

  Do not leave the app. Maximum monthly usage time, please.

• 57:17Andrew Manganelli?

  You don't?

• 57:18David Imel?

  No.

• 57:19Andrew Manganelli?

  It's on mine, I can take a screen recording.

• 57:20David Imel?

  Maybe they know.

• 57:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Or a screenshot of it, actually did take a screenshot.

• 57:23David Imel?

  Maybe it's like rolling out little by little. They're just personally trying to.

• 57:25Andrew Manganelli?

  So, in my sidebar right now, I have games on Reddit, Redonkulous, Solve Riddles, then I have Type Battle, Flappy Goose, Pixelary, and Discover More Games. When I click in Discover More Games, it brings it up kind of like a subreddit.

• 57:41David Imel?

  Okay.

• 57:42Andrew Manganelli?

  With posts that have comments and titles, but then I like try and play, the first thing I try and play is Flappy Goose, but it just plays me a video of someone else playing it, and then there's comments under it.

• 57:54David Imel?

  Cause we need to touch grass.

• 57:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't really understand what's going on.

• 57:58David Imel?

  We really need to go outside.

• 57:59Andrew Manganelli?

  And then there's one, Pixelary.

• 58:00David Imel?

  Are any of them games?

• 58:01Andrew Manganelli?

  They sort of are, like this is pixel art and you have to guess what it is, but there's not really an actual answer to it, there's just a graph of everybody's guesses. So like the first one I saw was Crash Bandicoot, and it was just a graph of people typing in Crash, like Bandicoot, Crash, Crash Bandicoot, Crash Bandicoot with different capitalization on it. It makes no sense, and in an app that already is terrible, instead of fixing things like your timeline refreshing and you losing all the articles you just saw, or my algorithm just completely shuts off sometimes because I guess I'm not following enough communities and since it won't list it chronologically. I just have no more things to read.

• 58:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Or my favorite, getting sold human growth hormone pills in the ads like every single day. The ads are so bad. It's it's like Twitter where you can just tell no one wants to advertise on this anymore.

• 58:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:54Andrew Manganelli?

  So you get the most, the dumbest ads possible. They're like, hey, let's add some games to this. It feels cool.

• 59:00David Imel?

  You got games on your phone? Do you have games on your app?

• 59:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Games in your broken ass app?

• 59:04Speaker 02

  You know what? App has games hidden in it that are actually kind of fun though.

• 59:07David Imel?

  YouTube?

• 59:07Speaker 02

  The YouTube app? Oh, right. Have you played those? I've never played.

• 59:10David Imel?

  Yeah, there's like a Runny Man one that's kind of good.

• 59:12Andrew Manganelli?

  They're good?

• 59:13Speaker 02

  I just see all the flash, the flash games from my childhood in there.

• 59:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 59:18David Imel?

  Oh, really?

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Or the, yeah, a bunch of them like repurposed.

• 59:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Like Newgrounds or like?

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Not that old.

• 59:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Like a little bit after that.

• 59:24Andrew Manganelli?

  What are those?

• 59:26Speaker 02

  What are those? I don't know, like, I don't know.

• 59:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Tanks?

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Like the, the.

• 59:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 59:34David Imel?

  Yeah, there's prison life, city smash and solar smash. Those are the ones that just popped up.

• 59:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Those are the YouTube games?

• 59:40David Imel?

  Well, those are the ones that just popped up for me.

• 59:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I just don't get this trend of games. I would love, there's got to be numbers somewhere of how many people are playing.

• 59:47Speaker 04

  All you gotta do is look at Wordle in the New York Times. Wordle got them so many new subscribers. Most of the New York Times money now comes from just people subscribing for their games specifically.

• 59:58David Imel?

  That is true.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  I think it's like more than half of their profit or something like crazy like that. Don't quote me. That was an AI answer.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  I meant, I meant, I said flash games. I meant early mobile games from my.

• 1:00:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:00:08David Imel?

  Yeah, a lot of these are just kind of like early, easy mobile games that they put. But it's just, yeah, I don't know. It's you, it feels like every app at this point, every company, like it's very rare now that a company will be like, we're a company that does this. It's just that if you're a tech company and you're, have anything to do with social media, you also have now games and you do video and you do this and you do that. And it's like everyone wants to be TikTok first and then everyone wants to be this and everyone, it's just like.

• 1:00:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, speaking of, didn't Instagram just launch the, uh, like map your friends thing like Snapchat did?

• 1:00:43David Imel?

  Yeah, Snap Maps.

• 1:00:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, Snap or what did, uh, who's the CEO of Snap?

• 1:00:49David Imel?

  Oh, um.

• 1:00:49Speaker 04

  Evan Spiegel.

• 1:00:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Evan Spiegel. Didn't he have like in his LinkedIn, like?

• 1:00:52David Imel?

  It said.

• 1:00:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Facebook, uh.

• 1:00:54David Imel?

  Yeah, he said he worked at Meta.

• 1:00:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was like head of product.

• 1:00:57David Imel?

  Head of product at Meta. Yeah.

• 1:00:59Andrew Manganelli?

  He's gonna have that like times two now?

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  I think that was a joke though, but still, pretty, pretty good.

• 1:01:05Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, it is a joke.

• 1:01:07David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:01:07Andrew Manganelli?

  VP of Product.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  You didn't, what app might talk about that has goofy games in it that are pretty fun?

• 1:01:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh yeah, what is it?

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  It's the United app.

• 1:01:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, but that makes sense. No, no, no, that makes sense. Cause the United app's whole thing is like.

• 1:01:20David Imel?

  You need to.

• 1:01:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It, you can't pay for the internet, but it'll use the internet just in the app for X amount of things. So it can serve you a couple ads.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Do you know how frustrating it is when I'm on an airplane and I just want to play Angry Birds? And I can't because Angry Birds requires an internet connection now because of what they've taken from us?

• 1:01:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I've played a lot of blackjack on the United app.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  They've taken everything from us. I like the, um, that make the airplanes land. Although it's kind of freaky to play a game where you can make planes crash on a plane.

• 1:01:52Andrew Manganelli?

  A little bit.

• 1:01:54David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:01:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we're, I think we're done here.

• 1:01:56David Imel?

  We're done.

• 1:01:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Trivia.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. You guys think you're friends? We're about to find out. Trivia.

• 1:02:07Andrew Manganelli?

  That makes it sound like you're gonna actively pit us against each other.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's super head to head trivia. It's not super heads together trivia, although maybe that'll be fun for next time. You have to work cooperatively.

• 1:02:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, that's a really good idea.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Thanks, I'm full of them.

• 1:02:19David Imel?

  Co-op.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, co-op. Couch Co-op Podcast.

• 1:02:23David Imel?

  PVE.

• 1:02:23Speaker 02

  All right, uh, David.

• 1:02:25David Imel?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Something waveform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of?

• 1:02:35David Imel?

  A frisbee.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  You're just, you're just gonna, you're just gonna do it? You gotta fill thirty seconds to think about it.

• 1:02:44David Imel?

  What are the really like generic ones? There's like.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:02:47David Imel?

  The Aerosmith logo.

• 1:02:49Andrew Manganelli?

  The Aerosmith?

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  What's the Aerosmith logo? What is the Aerosmith logo gonna look like?

• 1:02:54David Imel?

  It's like, that's like a, like a tramp stamp tattoo.

• 1:02:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you saying like the wings on it?

• 1:03:00David Imel?

  Yeah, the wings, the angel wings.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Hold on. Andrew has a tramp stamp?

• 1:03:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, no, hold on, I want to keep this going. If you think it's generic, like what, what generic tattoo would I have?

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  I don't think it's generic.

• 1:03:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Not generic tattoo. Like it's not a generic in the tattoo sense, but this, the one on my shoulder is not necessarily like artsy or creative. It is.

• 1:03:22David Imel?

  Generic.

• 1:03:24Andrew Manganelli?

  You could call it that.

• 1:03:25David Imel?

  An American flag.

• 1:03:26Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 1:03:31David Imel?

  A gun. I don't know.

• 1:03:32Andrew Manganelli?

  A gun.

• 1:03:34David Imel?

  Uh.

• 1:03:35Andrew Manganelli?

  What are some of?

• 1:03:36David Imel?

  It's not a frisbee.

• 1:03:38Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not a frisbee?

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  What are a few of his favorite things?

• 1:03:41David Imel?

  Oh, is it one of your favorite things?

• 1:03:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It is one of my favorite things.

• 1:03:44David Imel?

  A beer?

• 1:03:45Andrew Manganelli?

  It is.

• 1:03:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Just a beer. I got it when I was 18, so that would be...

• 1:03:51David Imel?

  A beer?

• 1:03:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a logo.

• 1:03:57David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:03:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Part of it is a logo.

• 1:03:58David Imel?

  Really? What brands does Andrew like?

• 1:04:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Why are you looking at me? Firefox.

• 1:04:05David Imel?

  Is it a mountain?

• 1:04:07Andrew Manganelli?

  No, good guess.

• 1:04:09David Imel?

  Is it Patagonia?

• 1:04:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Like the Patagonia company logo? That would be sick. Not gonna lie, that would be sick.

• 1:04:15David Imel?

  REI. Costco? Those are all things you like.

• 1:04:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm writing these all on my future.

• 1:04:21David Imel?

  North Face?

• 1:04:23Andrew Manganelli?

  No, it's not, um...

• 1:04:25David Imel?

  Alright, can you, okay, let's do 20 questions.

• 1:04:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, let's do 10 questions.

• 1:04:31David Imel?

  Okay, 10 questions. Is it a person, place, or thing?

• 1:04:34Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, that's not a 10, it has to be a yes or no question.

• 1:04:38David Imel?

  That is, that is. Is it a person, place, or thing? Yes.

• 1:04:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:04:43David Imel?

  I guess it is a thing.

• 1:04:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it a vague concept?

• 1:04:46David Imel?

  Is it a sport?

• 1:04:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes. Okay, you whittled it down. No.

• 1:04:52David Imel?

  Is it a football?

• 1:04:53Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 1:04:54David Imel?

  Uh, is it a sport?

• 1:04:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a sport.

• 1:04:56David Imel?

  Object.

• 1:04:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Football logo. It's a sport logo.

• 1:04:59David Imel?

  A sport logo?

• 1:05:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:05:00David Imel?

  Oh, the devil's logo?

• 1:05:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Why? I did it! I did it in one question. Didn't need 20.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  Through the magic of editing.

• 1:05:09David Imel?

  Call me a magic eight ball.

• 1:05:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a little, it's the, it's the devil's logo and then there's actually this like devil on skates with a hockey stick from their AHL logo, like incorporated.

• 1:05:20David Imel?

  Can I see it?

• 1:05:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  Off the pod.

• 1:05:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, this is, I don't want this part on the pod.

• 1:05:24David Imel?

  Is it just your shoulder? Oh, oh, I see it through your shirt. Oh. Oh, wow. That's cool.

• 1:05:32Speaker 04

  It's almost 20 years old.

• 1:05:34David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:05:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Your tattoo is older than.

• 1:05:37David Imel?

  Chat GPT. Feel old yet?

• 1:05:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Probably.

• 1:05:42Speaker 04

  No, yeah. Feel old.

• 1:05:44David Imel?

  Feel old, yeah.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  Your tattoo's old.

• 1:05:45Andrew Manganelli?

  All right.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Well, Andrew, now it's your turn.

• 1:05:48David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  It is.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Because David, while in college, was in a band.

• 1:05:53David Imel?

  And high school.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, I realized I got that wrong. It is your high school.

• 1:05:56David Imel?

  Well, it was half high school, half college.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  As a young man.

• 1:05:58David Imel?

  For four years.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Was in a band. What genre of music did this band perform?

• 1:06:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm like, very confident about this, which makes me worried that I'm wrong.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  If you can get both words I'm looking for.

• 1:06:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm only trying to choose one. I have literally no idea what the other one is.

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  All right.

• 1:06:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Should I flip it?

• 1:06:19David Imel?

  Let's wait for the ending of the sound.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Build more suspense.

• 1:06:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Ding.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  AOL dial-up internet.

• 1:06:27David Imel?

  That's only one.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  That was.

• 1:06:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It is one, though. I wrote ska.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  Looking for, though.

• 1:06:30David Imel?

  You're at ska.

• 1:06:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Ska.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  Ska.

• 1:06:32David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:06:32Andrew Manganelli?

  What was you looking for?

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  The other word I was looking for, and David, please correct me if I'm wrong.

• 1:06:36David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  The other word I was looking for was pirate.

• 1:06:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:43David Imel?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:06:44Andrew Manganelli?

  You know, that's actually.

• 1:06:45David Imel?

  True, pirate ska.

• 1:06:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I should have gotten that.

• 1:06:46David Imel?

  Yeah, I would, I would classify it.

• 1:06:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Why do both of you have a history with pirates?

• 1:06:52David Imel?

  It's true.

• 1:06:54Andrew Manganelli?

  You guys should collab.

• 1:06:55David Imel?

  You should. We had a pirate ska song. We had a medieval ska song. We had a robot ska song.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 1:07:02David Imel?

  But it was more pi- like pirate ska was more of the vibe, for sure.

• 1:07:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I've seen.

• 1:07:06David Imel?

  We have an album. It's out.

• 1:07:07Andrew Manganelli?

  The Blender.

• 1:07:08David Imel?

  You can listen to it.

• 1:07:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Music video. With the pirate ship that's like flipping up and upside down and stuff.

• 1:07:13David Imel?

  Rendering that music video, I had a razor blade at the time. It was the first one. And it melted the connector between the, the battery and the computer. So it could no longer.

• 1:07:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Was the first razor blade the one where some of the keys were kind of like the stream deck where you could make them skills like in a MOBA?

• 1:07:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Man, Razor used to think of some cool stuff.

• 1:07:33David Imel?

  They did, yeah. The album is called Smoke and Mirrors by Loose Cannon Mariachi. You can find the album on any streaming platform. There are also many YouTube videos of us playing at county fairs.

• 1:07:43Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 1:07:45David Imel?

  And in coffee shops. Anyway, I'm never gonna make money from that, so.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  You never know.

• 1:07:52David Imel?

  We have over a thousand plays.

• 1:07:54Speaker 04

  Hey.

• 1:07:55David Imel?

  So that's been it.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks for listening to this episode of the Waveform Podcast. I don't think there's anything else.

• 1:08:00Speaker 04

  Wait, I got something.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  He's got something.

• 1:08:02David Imel?

  Adam has something.

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  The Premier League starts this week.

• 1:08:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  I know a lot of people don't care, so you can start tuning out. But if you do care about Premier League football, soccer, footy, I am setting up a fantasy draft that I will link down in the description so you can join and we can just have a Waveform fantasy Premier League soccer thing. So do that.

• 1:08:24Andrew Manganelli?

  And the winner of it gets to be the Waveform producer for one day.

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  Oh, actually, I would love that. If we get Marquez to sign off on that, I would do that.

• 1:08:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:35Speaker 04

  Probably not, though, so don't get me started. Mostly just for funsies.

• 1:08:38David Imel?

  Sports. Marquez will be back next week, thank God. Next week, we'll be talking about all the pixels.

• 1:08:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Pixel.

• 1:08:46David Imel?

  That are gonna be launching, so it's gonna be a big week, very exciting week. We're definitely gonna learn new things, definitely.

• 1:08:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm really excited. I'm almost definitely preordering this new pixel.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  The next like bunch of weeks for Waveform are really sick. We have Pixel and then we have Trivia Extravaganza and then iPhone right after that.

• 1:09:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  And then it goes back to sucking.

• 1:09:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Speaker 04

  I love that you put Trivia Extravaganza in between our two biggest episodes of the year.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Literally, Trivia Extravaganza is like the biggest thing that happens in tech.

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 1:09:16David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:09:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, Google and Apple like made sure their events didn't.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. They shut down their campuses so that everyone's gonna wanna be at home.

• 1:09:25Speaker 04

  To watch.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  Watching.

• 1:09:26David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  Trivia Extravaganza. There's like a palpable shift in the S and P 500 from so many tech companies like being unproductive that day.

• 1:09:35David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Someone, please read us out before I.

• 1:09:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Rovin, partner with Vox Media Podcast Network, and our next intro/after music was created by Vainso.

• 1:09:43David Imel?

  Bingo.

• 1:10:03David Imel?

  I shouldn't have done that, now I just have to wait.

• 1:10:05Speaker 04

  Now we gotta wait.

• 1:10:10David Imel?

  Bah, no, don't do this. Hold on one second.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  That's just embarrassing.

• 1:10:31David Imel?

  Wait, that's incorrect. That was awesome. Wow. So dope.

• 1:10:35Speaker 10

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