We Love/Hate These Apps!

Marques is back! This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about unique electric vehicles, the new Apple products now that Marques has them and is reviewing them, and apps that we love (and hate). We wrap it all up with another round of over or underrated before getting into the trivia answers. Enjoy! Links: The Verge Toyota Tundra: https://bit.ly/3CtIn7u MKBHD M4 Mac Mini Review: https://bit.ly/4emKdo0 Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33David Imel?

  We can just say the words PlayStation 5 Pro and the algorithm will just go boom.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Noted.

• 0:39David Imel?

  So, we should just call the episode PlayStation 5 Pro Review.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  That's actually not the worst idea I've heard.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Can I do that?

• 0:51David Imel?

  We're unboxing.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  PlayStation 5 Pro Review and it's just our podcast?

• 0:55David Imel?

  Wow.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  We'll just say it was a glitch. Yeah, I don't know what happened.

• 0:59David Imel?

  We were A/B testing and that one just went.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  What is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of The Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 1:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  And I'm David. And this week, we got a few quick hit sort of style tech news stories. I think everyone's aware that there's a whole bunch of other things happening in the world right now, and I think all the tech companies know it too. And you know how they like hate being outshined by each other? Like, one of them announces an event, and then the other one's like, okay, we gotta do it the day before or the day after. Well, they're all kind of playing not get up stage, so there's not a whole lot of news this week. But we still found a bunch of fun stuff to keep ourselves distracted and entertained. So, we're gonna do that. We're gonna jump in. Actually, we also have a game at the end that we're gonna play.

• 1:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  Thanks to Adam. So, that should be a good time. But first, at the top of the dock here, we have a couple of vehicles, some interesting vehicles we wanna like sort of jump through.

• 1:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I'm gonna open this one by the wildest one.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Just tell me about this, because I see the picture that you put here, but I don't know what's happening here.

• 2:04Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, it's not a new vehicle. It is a prototype vehicle accessory at SEMA, which is like, kind of the CES of car shows, right?

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, you see a lot of crazy stuff that this probably might not really be released.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  It's in the same convention center.

• 2:18Andrew Manganelli?

  But it is a five-screen accessory for your Toyota Tundra. It is a custom

• 2:27Andrew Manganelli?

  A pickup truck accessory where in the bed of the truck, it like comes up and then five TV screens come out for the ultimate tailgating accessory in quotes.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Is that what this is?

• 2:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, so it has, if you're looking at it directly from the back, you'd actually only see three screens because there's one directly in the bed of the truck and two that fold out to the sides of it, almost like mirrors. And then there's two also on the interior. So if you're tailgating with this at any angle, you can watch the big game.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Are you in the parking lot of the game doing this? Or are you nowhere near any of the games, watching five of the games?

• 3:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, maybe you're in the parking lot and watching the pregame show or something else. That's a great question.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  It's a choice. I think they just did this because they had nothing else to show at SEMA and they were like, well, this is a kind of a TV show, right? Put the TV in the, alright, there it is.

• 3:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, this is how they're describing it. With the push of a button, a custom-built staging shell rises from the bed of the truck on four electric actuators, revealing five 55-inch waterproof outdoor screens.

• 3:34David Imel?

  Wow. Waterproof outdoor displays are usually really expensive. As we've seen on Best Buy, they're like way more expensive than regular TVs by a factor of like 20. So.

• 3:46Andrew Manganelli?

  This is not cheap. Actually, did it even say how much it is?

• 3:49David Imel?

  It's probably not even gonna come out.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  There's probably no price. Again, this is at SEMA. This is a booth probably where Toyota's showing us off to get attention to people that talk about Toyota. And then that will be the last time we see this.

• 4:01David Imel?

  Yeah. Also, I want to say, I think that one of the best things about tailgating is sitting on the tailgate and you can't really do that with this. This is completely filling up the back of the truck.

• 4:10Andrew Manganelli?

  It also has like four huge JBL speakers on top, pointing in all four directions, even the direction none of the TVs are facing.

• 4:19David Imel?

  If, if they had had like two big screens just up against the back of the rear window and you could still sit in the tailgate with your beers and watch it, I think that'd be great.

• 4:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you just need another Toyota Tundra. And that one has five seats in the back of it.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Put them tailgate to tailgate. I see.

• 4:39David Imel?

  Yeah, okay.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Wild. You could do that. I actually have a different vehicle I want to, I want to talk about briefly.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  And you can watch the autofocus video if you want the full breakdown, but we did briefly have the Rivian R1S Gen 2 here. I was curious about it because I am personally a Rivian R1T first gen owner and I regularly drive it. So I was, I saw the second gen stuff get announced and I saw some reviews and I wasn't at any of the like experiences or demos they had. So I was just wondering, how much of this stuff is really noticeable? There's a whole bunch of stuff they're talking about here. Ooh, less wiring. Oh, there's a couple of new features here and there. But how much of this stuff will I actually notice? Cause I'm not going to buy a second gen. I have a first gen already, but let me see. So they got one in our hands. And I actually, I put my list together. I reviewed it. I lived with it for a week. And it turns out, there's two main things that I've really noticed about it.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  One is the suspension and the way it drives and the new drivetrains which actually improved. Basically what they did is, so there's, we had the triple motor, 850 horsepower, R1S Gen 2 Tri-Max is what it's called. 370 miles of range, roughly the equivalent power wise of the first gen, which had quad motors. But what they did is they, they split apart the all purpose and sport modes a little bit more. So I think if you read old reviews of the first gen Rivians, a lot of people are saying things like, ah, it rides a little harsh. Uh, it's a little bit too tightly sprung and things like that. And like other full sized trucks are much softer and much more forgiving to drive.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  So they made the all purpose mode softer. Everything's just a little bit softer. The acceleration pedal is a little bit softer. The regen is a little softer. The suspension's a little softer. But then sport mode is even firmer.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Which is, it's actually very firm for a, for a truck, for a 7,000 pound vehicle. It's, it's really tightly sprung. It can be a little much on regular streets, but that's what they mainly did. And that's what I noticed when driving it. Then the other thing is the cameras are just all dramatically better.

• 6:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 6:45Speaker 02

  It's a small thing, but like the first gen, when you put your blinker on and it shows you the feet of your blind spot and it's like, it looks like it's covered in a layer of grease. And it's like 240p. It's like, okay, I can see if there's a car there, but I can't really see that well. The new ones, they're like super crisp, HD, like high dynamic range, great colors. Like, and by the way, they're not just blinker cameras. They are the, the dash cam. They are the sensor mode cameras. They are very useful cameras. So all the cameras being dramatically better. I thought that was great.

• 7:15David Imel?

  That is something that always surprised me, that companies would cheap out on the cameras on these cars because cameras are pretty cheap now. And I know that you just want to make a very small module and whatever, but I'm pretty sure the difference between like a 4080p backup camera and a 1080p backup camera is like negligible in cost at this point.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 7:35David Imel?

  Especially for something that's small.

• 7:36Andrew Manganelli?

  And especially for something that already costs that much.

• 7:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Right? Like what margin is that coming into?

• 7:41David Imel?

  And it's a small cost that leads to a high quality of life improvement.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I guess when you're Rivian, I don't know how much they've changed. I mean, there's a ton of smaller things they've changed, but when I looked at those cameras in the first gen, it doesn't look like they were ever meant to be displayed that big. Especially the side view cameras. Like when I, originally, actually it never showed that. And then there was a software update and then they started showing you the blind spot cameras. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, is there something on my cameras? It doesn't look like they're ever meant to be displayed. Now these new ones are like, great.

• 8:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  So.

• 8:13David Imel?

  I believe Tesla was able to improve the cameras with a software update, which is pretty cool.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Of course, yeah. Image processing can get better, but I don't, you would never see a difference this big just from software. Like they are night and day different, which is great. So I love seeing that. So.

• 8:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I talk about the interior of this? Was, is this like a special edition one?

• 8:31David Imel?

  No, I mean, this did have the, the higher end. I think it's called the ascent trim. I'll double check that, but it did have the nice interior trim.

• 8:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you remember when Ford used to do an Eddie Bauer edition Expedition? I think it ended up on 150.

• 8:45David Imel?

  I'm kinda picturing it though.

• 8:46Andrew Manganelli?

  So this to me felt like the LL Bean edition, like Rivian. It's got like, this is like flannel accents all over the place.

• 8:55David Imel?

  And plaid.

• 8:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It, we have like plaid and, and this, it spoke to me. Sitting inside this was just like, I am at home. As a, a northeast white podcaster who loves a good IPA, this thing was like, I'm here home.

• 9:11David Imel?

  It did have a nice lift to it.

• 9:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Also, the wood trim on this is way better. I don't know if it's just because it's a different wood trim, but this is like one of the best wood trims inside of a car I've ever seen.

• 9:19David Imel?

  For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I already love the R1S, but this one was even better.

• 9:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It was so good.

• 9:24David Imel?

  I'm not really hot on the LL Bean vibe, but I'm happy that you're happy.

• 9:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, this is me, man.

• 9:30David Imel?

  Alright.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  It also has an electrochromic roof.

• 9:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Does it really?

• 9:34David Imel?

  Did the previous one not have that?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  It did not. Yeah. So I found that, I found that nice.

• 9:38David Imel?

  It doesn't, it doesn't open, right?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  It's just tints and then untints.

• 9:41David Imel?

  Okay.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  So you can, it's either clear or frosted.

• 9:44David Imel?

  Yeah. I'm glad a lot more technology is getting electrochromic stuff. Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Seems like a lot of stuff.

• 9:49David Imel?

  Shout out to Snapchat. Yeah.

• 9:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Seeing it on the Snapchat glasses was really sick of just like on, off, on, off. Or even if you just like looked at the like windows outside and watching it just auto do, it was really cool.

• 9:59David Imel?

  My first experience with electrochromic was in like 2016 in China and I was staying in this hotel. And the shower that's in the bathroom area of the hotel was like just in the main room. So it was like, oh, you're just gonna see naked people.

• 10:13Andrew Manganelli?

  It was clear.

• 10:14David Imel?

  But when you go in and you press a button and it totally tints.

• 10:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 10:17David Imel?

  It gets all foggy.

• 10:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:19David Imel?

  So it's not quite, it's not like, it doesn't get darker. It just gets like, it looks foggy. You can't really see. It's cool.

• 10:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I've seen, yeah, I've seen more than one hotel with that.

• 10:28David Imel?

  Yeah. It's becoming more popular. It was, it used to be very expensive, but I think it's been coming down in price a lot.

• 10:32Andrew Manganelli?

  That's fascinating.

• 10:33David Imel?

  Super cool. Some of you freaks are gonna leave it clear. Anyway.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Moving, we have one more vehicle, actually. I don't know how much you want to talk about it, but-

• 10:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the coolest one.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  It's the, it's the Lee Auto Mega is what it's called. It's, wow, how do I describe it? It's a, it's the shape of a minivan.

• 10:51David Imel?

  The ultimate minivan.

• 10:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it looks like the new Prius got stung by a bee and is minivan sized.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  It does have a, yeah, that sleek shape to it. So yeah, it's minivan sized, it's three rows. It is made by a company that does not ship vehicles to the US, so you're not going to just see one on the streets unless you saw me driving to the studio today. And it is very much, yeah, the ultimate minivan, I think is a good description of it. It's, it's full of screens. It's full of tech and features and it kinda seems overloaded. Like it's got heated massaging seats in the front two rows. It's got a 50 watt wireless charger at all four of the front two row seats. It's got huge OLED screens in the front. It's got a self aligning HU D display.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  It's got self-driving. It's got sensors where you can like do gestures to move media from the backseat to the front seat screen. It's all this insane-

• 11:45Andrew Manganelli?

  The auto park was nuts. It was so good.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  It was maybe the best auto park I've ever seen. And I've tried a couple of different auto park systems. This one confidently auto parked with a bunch of variables. It, it was, it was pretty serious.

• 11:57David Imel?

  They have a singular LiDAR sensor on the top of that car, so it's probably that mixed with machine vision.

• 12:02Andrew Manganelli?

  And the ride is just, it's called like magic carpet suspension and it is which admittedly like you're not, you're just like floating.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  It is on the, it's on the level of the, I'll say it, the Rolls Royce Spectre, which was maybe like the softest magic carpet EV experience. And it's also like really good internal acoustics. So like you drive around in that thing and you basically just feel like you're floating along the road. And then you hit a pothole and it's kinda like-

• 12:32Speaker 02

  And you run over increasingly larger things and it's just-

• 12:35David Imel?

  Good for New Jersey.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  It's fine, totally fine. It's great for New Jersey.

• 12:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I know nothing about the manufacturer and nothing about how they are overseas, so I can't speak to that. But as the car that we are seeing here, which is obviously lent to us from the company, so take it with a grain of salt that it is. It's one of the most fun inside of a car I've seen since this year, probably.

• 12:59David Imel?

  Yeah, they got founded in 2015, so it's still a fairly new company.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  This strikes me as, and this is a total shot in the dark, but this strikes me as the Lucid of China.

• 13:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It reminds me of the first Lucid that we saw that was so focused on the backseat experience, like these lay down seats.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Luxury quality.

• 13:15Andrew Manganelli?

  This one, like the bucket seats in the back, lay down, the footrest comes up, you can push them all the way back, so you have tons of legroom.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  It's like jetliner seats.

• 13:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like jetliner, yeah. And then it has heated and cooled seats with massage. And I thought the interesting thing about the massage was normally a massaging seat only gets your back. This goes like all the way up your like hamstring, like to your knee.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I need that.

• 13:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It was awesome.

• 13:38David Imel?

  Yeah, it feels like Lucid merged with canoe. I feel like that's what it feels like.

• 13:42Andrew Manganelli?

  The vibe outside has a canoe vibe to it.

• 13:45David Imel?

  Yeah, it's very canoe-y.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 13:47David Imel?

  Strange. It really, compared to the, what is the minivan that we had for a bit?

• 13:53Andrew Manganelli?

  The Chrysler Pacifica.

• 13:55David Imel?

  No, the redo of the old-

• 13:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, the Volkswagen.

• 14:01David Imel?

  Volkswagen. Yeah, I feel like this is so much better. It's like not even a competition. Cause the Volkswagen Buzz, EV Buzz, ID Buzz? The outside looks cool, but the interior is like really basic. Volkswagen doesn't have a lot going on.

• 14:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I think they were on that nostalgic, like old, like the old vans where like, take the seats out and stuff and like super-

• 14:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Module and everything. And I think they were kind of going for that. This was like, we are doing our own thing and we're doing everything about it.

• 14:32David Imel?

  Totally. It's pretty sick.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Very weird.

• 14:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Cool. Do we want to do the Mac stuff after the break?

• 14:38David Imel?

  Yes.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Like this thing? I'll do, I'll do a little teaser. For audio listeners, picture me holding a tiny five by five inch computer. It's a desktop. You're shocked by how small it is. That's after the break. That's what it is.

• 14:51David Imel?

  You are shocked.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  But yeah, no, we, we have some Mac stuff where actually I've just been using right in front of me. You can see the new MacBook Pro. Or maybe you couldn't tell because it looks almost the same.

• 15:00David Imel?

  Looks the same as mine.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've been using a silver one, so now it's space black. It's a whole thing now, but we're going to get to that after the break. But before we do that, we should do trivia.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Trivia, dude. So we got Marquez back this week, but we lost Ellis. Ellis is now homesick today.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  So we're all just getting each other sick.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're just going around. So I'm going to do a.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Have you been sick? You were already sick.

• 15:28David Imel?

  Yeah, but it never really went away. It just settled to Marquez's side of the table. It just settled in my chest and never really went away.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Damn. Perfect. So that's why we're getting sick.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Anyway.

• 15:37David Imel?

  You're just the next to survive.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Trivia question. Who's out next? Which of these is not a popular real EV hybrid car in China?

• 15:49Speaker 02

  An Ellis style question.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Which one of these is not a real car in China? The BYD Jam? The Wu Ling Bingo? The Aito M7? Or the Zeeker 001?

• 16:05Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 16:06David Imel?

  I've heard of two of them.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have an idea.

• 16:08David Imel?

  That's bad. I haven't, the other two could be easily one of them.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Alright. Yeah. I started seeing BYD cars in the US recently.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  Wait, really?

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:17David Imel?

  Really?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  I'm trying to remember where I was. Oh, Cal, yeah, California.

• 16:20David Imel?

  Huh. Their cheapest one is like sub 15K, right?

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Sheesh. Yeah. This was in like, I guess around San Diego. So it was like, there was tons of EVs already. So starting to see BYDs didn't shock me, but it was.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  Did it look potentially like it was a, like somebody reviewing it or?

• 16:35Speaker 02

  I couldn't tell. I just remember seeing the logo or it might've been parked actually. Yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Well, we'll think about that. We'll think about those trivia questions as well. Answers are going to be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 16:59Speaker 02

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• 17:43Speaker 02

  Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist, or get started building for free today at framer.com/wave for 30% off the Framer Pro Annual Plan. That's framer.com/wave for 30% off. Framer.com/wave. Rules and restrictions may apply. All right, welcome back. Let's talk new Macs. Last week, we did get that press release week of new Macs, and now by the end of this week, reviews are starting to come out, including our Mac Mini review, which should be out by the time this podcast is out, so we can talk about this one, this little guy here. Basically, and I guess I'll spoil the review a little bit if you haven't seen it yet, but three main things are crazy about this Mac Mini. One is obvious: it's tiny. I'm like holding it in my hand right now.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  It's a 5" x 5" x 2" little rectangular thing. Nobody was asking for a smaller Mac Mini, but here we are. It's like the smallest little thing you've ever seen. It's a full-size desktop computer, full M4 and M4 Pro chips in there. Crazy how small it is. Thermals seem to be totally fine. I just, it just keeps getting smaller. It's crazy.

• 18:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really cool.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's that. I called it a shrunken Mac Studio. Cause the old Mac Mini was more of like a, like a, it was like flat, like a platter. This one's a little, it's actually taller than the old Mac Mini. It's two inches tall, but it's, it's.

• 19:01Andrew Manganelli?

  This makes the Mac Studio look huge.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  I put this on top of the Mac Studio. It makes the Mac Studio look actually massive.

• 19:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I saw it on Rich's desk and I was like, whoa, that thing's gigantic.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  I don't remember that feeling big. Like it never, I was always like, oh, that's a fairly small. The Mac Studio is already unnecessarily small. Yeah. It's a very powerful computer. Yeah. I love a Mac Studio. This thing is way small.

• 19:21Andrew Manganelli?

  My best size comparison, I have this roll of duct tape.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. You kind of nailed that.

• 19:27Andrew Manganelli?

  When it sits on top, every corner of duct tape perfectly aligns with the sides of the, the Mac Mini. If duct tape had corners, it would be, and then the size.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Hold it up.

• 19:38Andrew Manganelli?

  The, oh, sorry. I'm doing it on the table and no one can see.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  The footprint is exactly the same. If you were to measure it, it's five inches by five inch, five inches. And then it's also exactly two inches tall.

• 19:47Andrew Manganelli?

  In terms of height, it is like literally perfect.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Which is crazy. I don't know how you knew that, but.

• 19:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I, well, we were just trying to compare it to things and like everyday items. And I grabbed this and it happened to be almost exactly the same.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  I was trying to relate it to everyday things that everyone would know the size of for the video.

• 20:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Duct tape is in there.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  And yeah, a full, full size duct tape roll. It is there. But yeah, on the front, you have two ports, two USB C ports on the front. Those are not Thunderbolt ports. And then you have, um, the headphone jack and that's it. You'll notice there's no power button yet. On the back, you have the power plug, one gig ethernet by default. You can for a hundred bucks make it 10 gig, I think. Yeah. And then HDMI full size and three Thunderbolt four ports by default. On the M4 Pro, those become Thunderbolt five. Still no power button, you might notice. Uh, on the top, just that little Apple logo, still no power button, you might notice. Uh, on the sides, totally blank. This thing is nice and clean. Still no power button. You've probably noticed.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  At this point, I turn it upside down and you see the intake fans and the power button at the back bottom corner.

• 20:54David Imel?

  So I just, you know, threw out a conspiracy theory in the Mac mini review, but I'm sticking by it. I think it is someone's job at Apple to create, to come up with, with every new design, one obvious, not that big a deal, but easy to complain about thing to take the heat off of anything that might go wrong. This is the same person that started with the notch in the iPhone. This is the same person that has the port at the bottom of the Magic Mouse instead of anywhere else. This is the same person who might have even started taking the headphone jack away, but this person definitely chose to put the power button on the bottom of the Mac.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  I, David and I talked about this last week before we saw it. It is not possible to press this button unless you physically pick it up.

• 21:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  That's worse than, I thought you could at least like kind of stick your finger under it and press it.

• 21:47David Imel?

  It's very, very small and light and generally it's not going to be that big of a deal. However, just like the original Mac mini, people build setups around it, right? Like a lot of people buy these so that they can put like desktop risers over it and stuff. And again, I'm in the camp where I'm like, I don't think I really need to turn off my computer that often. So it's not that big of a deal. And if I do need to, I'll just like, you know, pick up the back a little bit, but

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Just a little annoying.

• 22:13David Imel?

  It is a little bit annoying. It's one of those things that Apple does sometimes where they're just like form over function.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  It is an objectively bad place to put it. The exact same way the port at the bottom of the Magic Mouse is objectively the worst place to put it. But it's probably fine and not that big a deal because it's only, you know, once a while that you actually use that.

• 22:32David Imel?

  Yeah. We're also in one of those really awkward situations where they have two products out right now. And one is an objectively bad deal compared to the other one because the M4 Pro version of this computer is faster than the M2 Ultra, which is what's shipping in the Mac Studio right now. Uh, Mac Studio for the equivalent spec, basically, is more than double the price effectively.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:59David Imel?

  Um, you're getting, obviously, way more cores, so if that is something that you specifically need, there's the Mac Studio. You're also getting, uh, the USB A ports.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Full-size, yeah.

• 23:11David Imel?

  And that's pretty much it. Um, so it's kind of, it's kind of that awkward situation where we were at when people were still needing to buy Intel Macs because compatibility.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:23David Imel?

  But literally, the only situation that you would buy the Intel Mac is because of compatibility. I don't really see a world where you would buy the Mac Studio over a faster Mac Mini right now.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:35David Imel?

  Unless, for some reason, you absolutely needed built-in USB A, which I don't know why you couldn't just use an adapter, or you absolutely needed a built-in SD card reader, which, again, I don't know why you couldn't just use an adapter.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:49David Imel?

  So I'm not really sure if they're going to, like, discontinue this or just update it. They haven't officially announced an M4 Ultra chipset.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  They gotta.

• 23:58David Imel?

  If they did, it would be great, because the Mac Studio is also still stuck on M2 Ultra.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Mac, Mac Studio is overdue. So I guess this gets me, I'll just finish my opening point, which is there's three crazy things about this Mac Mini. First one was size. The other two are the base M4 Mac Mini is a great deal. It's $5.99. It's just a base M4 chip. They doubled it to 16 gigs of onboard memory. It's got all these ports. It's tiny. Thermals are great. Performance is great. It's like, that's a, that's a damn good entry Mac. Good job.

• 24:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  The third and final thing is, wait a second, the most powerful Mac Mini is the most powerful CPU Mac so far, desktop Mac.

• 24:40David Imel?

  Desktop Mac, yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Because the M4 Pro is the fastest single-core performance we've ever seen on any Mac, obviously with M4, or M3, or M2. And then, yeah, the M4 Pro is benchmarking above M1 Macs and is hitting M2 Ultra levels.

• 24:56David Imel?

  It's above M2.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Of CPU and GPU.

• 24:58David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  So...

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, the point you're making, I think, is that the M2 Max are overdue for an upgrade. The Mac Pro, the Mac Studio. We're gonna hopefully see M4 Ultra and get all of those updated sometime soon. We don't have that yet. We just have MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro.

• 25:16David Imel?

  It's very weird to me that they didn't do that already.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they're kind of staggering all these M4 Mac upgrades. But yeah, as of right now, Mac Mini is in a really impressive space.

• 25:25David Imel?

  Yeah, and then as you noted in your review, what's very funny about this is that the base model is an extremely good deal at $599. And then if you have an education discount, you get it for $499, which is even crazier.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Sick.

• 25:37David Imel?

  But once you add the additional SSD storage and you add the RAM.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  No longer a great deal.

• 25:44David Imel?

  You have almost an entire extra Mac Mini.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:48David Imel?

  So maybe the RAM could be worth it, but honestly, there are Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back for the base model. Just buy an external SSD or an SSD enclosure and permanently mount it to the back. And you'll be fine. It's so much cheaper.

• 26:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Buy two of them and run them in SLI and then you get 32 gigs of unified memory.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  That's a name I haven't heard in a while, SLI. Yeah, I guess you are limited in ports. You only have 3 USB-C ports, so you gotta be careful.

• 26:16David Imel?

  But they're all Thunderbolt on the back, so.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  We're sorry, yeah, 3 Thunderbolt on the back and then 2 USB-C on the front.

• 26:20Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny thinking about running like a Cal-digit onto this, knowing it's the same size, pretty much.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Like to add an extra dock onto this for more I/O. It's the same size as the actual computer.

• 26:31David Imel?

  I understand that this computer is very cheap. I am pretty bummed out that the ports on the front are just USB-3 because that's gonna be the most common port that you attach an external SSD to. It's gonna be hard to get to the back, so it's kind of frustrating.

• 26:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Here's a question. Would you rather have 3 USB-3 ports on the back and 2 Thunderbolt on the front? Over the 3 Thunderbolt on the front and 2 USB-3 on the... Sorry, 3 Thunderbolt on the back and 2 USB-3 on the front?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  That was very confusing.

• 27:01David Imel?

  Wait, say it one more time.

• 27:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Would you rather... Okay. This has 2 USB on the front and 3 Thunderbolt on the back. Would you rather... Would you be okay with losing? Using a Thunderbolt port, but they're on the front and then the back are just three USB.

• 27:15David Imel?

  Cause that'd be worse. That'd be worse. You need the, you need at least one on the back to be Thunderbolt so you can connect.

• 27:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, the monitor?

• 27:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause I was gonna say like, you'd normally rather plug I/O in the back, right? Or if you're, they're assuming you're using a wireless keyboard.

• 27:29David Imel?

  I'd probably be okay with one Thunderbolt on the back and then two Thunderbolt on the front.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, at this moment, the front port is always the most convenient. When I plug a Thunderbolt drive into my Mac Pro, which is also the same situation, I get an error message that it says you can't plug in this Thunderbolt accessory into this port. And I have to unplug it and plug it in the back with the Thunderbolt ports. So people are gonna get that message if they try to plug like a fast SSD into the front. It's gonna be like, eh, not this, not, not the port for this.

• 27:54David Imel?

  Right.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Plug it in the back.

• 27:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:56Andrew Manganelli?

  As I'm looking at this, can I have a low-key conspiracy theory on why they didn't do that?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  I'm all for it.

• 28:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Because then they would have to put the Thunderbolt logo on the front and that would kill the aesthetic of it being clean like this.

• 28:07David Imel?

  That's a great question.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Are there any Mac Studios with Thunderbolt on the front?

• 28:10David Imel?

  No. I don't think, I don't think even the Ultra does.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 28:12David Imel?

  So.

• 28:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Because I mean, the Ultra, they don't want the logo on the front.

• 28:15David Imel?

  Oh my god. Yeah, cause the Ultra of the Mac Mini is also not Thunderbolt.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  That's really sad.

• 28:19Andrew Manganelli?

  There is no Ultra, it's just Pro.

• 28:20David Imel?

  Sorry, not the Mac Mini.

• 28:22Andrew Manganelli?

  None of them are Thunderbolt on the front.

• 28:23David Imel?

  Yeah, so that is a little disappointing. It's gonna be harder to get to the back ports. And for people that are like photographers that need to use external SSDs a lot to transfer files quickly.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:35David Imel?

  It's gonna be very annoying to get. I think that that is more annoying than the power button being on the bottom.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  So I think that is my theory about Apple's price ladders is even though it is actually totally capable, chip-wise, performance-wise, of being like the photographer's computer or like the light editor's computer, it's not meant to be. It's still just the entry Mac for like a casual, like the, think about the M4 iMac, which is just 1,200 bucks. Obviously it's not cheap, but it's like a very casual, this baseline computer to just get a computer.

• 29:07Andrew Manganelli?

  So you're saying like this is the?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  This is the M4 iMac of uh This is the baseline computer where you want your own monitor. You don't want the iMac? Cause like I would call the iMac the baseline. The iMac is the baseline, but it's $1,200 to start. And if you have a computer, you have 1,300 bucks. So if you have a monitor already, you just like, alright, I'm gonna get a Mac. I'll get the $500, $600 Mac Mini. And that's plenty of computer for every casual thing you're gonna do. Actually, I could see this. This is perfect for the, like, I have a friend who does like software engineering and he has just a Mac Mini and his gaming PC hooked up to the same monitors and just swap. So this is great to just like Use a KVM switch? Yeah, and just like code on this if you'd prefer to do that on Mac and then switch over to your computer on the same monitor. The second you're gonna be the photographer thinking about how many ports do I need?

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Or how many external drives am I gonna plug in or anything like that? They walk you right up to the Mac Studio. Cause you start to think about like, oh, M4 Pro or how much more am I gonna spend? Yeah, but it's so much more expensive. But the Mac Studio also has regular USB 3 ports. But it has USB A, it has way more ports. Yeah. And even though you're not getting that much more performance. It only has one extra C port though, on the back, and then two USB A. It's not that many more ports. It has a bunch of USB A, I thought. It only has two. Oh, well, I've used both of mine. So it has four Thunderbolt and two USB A. That's a big difference. That's one extra port. For one Thunderbolt and two USB A. Three extra ports. Well, sure. You know? I don't know. I don't know. I just, I just feel like that's

• 30:38Speaker 02

  I wouldn't buy that for twice the price for three extra ports. Well, you say that, and that makes perfect logical sense, but if you walk up the rungs of the ladder one by one, you, you kinda end up there faster than you think. Like the base Mac Studio, as you say, is uh $2,000 right now. Yeah, but it's M2 Pro. It's like so much slower. It's M2 Max. Sorry, yes. So it's a better GPU or almost as good? Well, it should be better, but it's not. But it's M2 Max. It's, I think we all know it's not a great deal right now, cause we want M4 stuff in there, but Yeah. You, for that price, will get all of the extra ports. You'll get, hopefully soon, M4 Max and then it's Just buy like a Cal digit and hook it up.

• 31:20David Imel?

  Up to one of the USB ports on the back.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  But a CowDit is like, what, $500 or something?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  That's exactly, that's, yeah, you're getting right up to, yes, Mac Studio.

• 31:28David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  So, anyway, that's, I think, we're in a weird place because Mac's, Apple's lineup is not fully updated to M4, which is why this, like, weird comparison kinda makes sense, but I think hopefully soon Mac Studio gets M4, Mac Pro gets M4.

• 31:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  And then everything is on a tiered.

• 31:49David Imel?

  To me, it feels like Apple only sees the front ports as a way to, like, charge the Magic Keyboard and the Magic Mouse.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  That's kind of mostly what I do.

• 31:56David Imel?

  In all of their press stuff, they just show it, like, having the PlayStation controller plugged into it, or the Teenage Engineering thing plugged into it, but they don't actually show anything transferring data, just charging.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  Never substantial data.

• 32:10David Imel?

  So, yeah, that's interesting.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't even think of that.

• 32:14David Imel?

  Yeah. We should talk about the MacBook Pro.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, that, that's the last thing we got here, which is, this is the new M4 generation MacBook Pro. Jeez. I haven't upgraded my MacBook Pro in three years. We were just talking about this before. I was 28 years old when I got my, my M1.

• 32:34David Imel?

  A wee lad.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was just a child. And I've been using it ever since, and I haven't really been tempted by any of the upgrades. From M1 to M2 was silly, M1 to M3, eh, don't really need it. M4 Ultra, M4 Max comes out, and M4 Pro. These new laptops, now they're starting to stack the improvements on top of each other over the M1 generation. Not that I need some performance improvement, but they also did a couple little things. One, Thunderbolt 5, so faster I/O for those SSDs, for those big projects. Two, there's a Nano Texture option on the display. Interesting.

• 33:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Very interesting. That, that's, this is it. You've, you've seen it. It's pretty sick-looking.

• 33:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Uh, I have thoughts on it. And then three, it is space black and the first one isn't, so. It's just kinda like a bunch of little things now stacking up on top. So this is the first one I've at least thought about.

• 33:25David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Switching from my three-year-old M1 Max to this, uh, brand-new M4 Max.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  We are still mid-review process on that, so I don't have an answer yet. I will say, it's a great laptop. It's very expensive, but it is very performant. It is on our export test, basically twice as fast as my laptop on like major multi-threaded apps, which is awesome. So I'm liking this laptop a lot so far.

• 33:53David Imel?

  Yeah, I think every single year up until now, people have been like, the performance improvements are like 20%.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Little bumps.

• 34:00David Imel?

  But the M1 generation jump was so big from Intel in general, both in thermals as well as performance, that people are just like, why would I ever need this? And I continue to believe that generally, if you had an M1 Max, I bought an M1 Max when it first came out. I don't plan on upgrading because I'm like, yes, it's faster, but it's already so good that until it's like really, really, really good, or my computer just dies.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have, we have like years left on our laptops lives.

• 34:28David Imel?

  You can get like six to seven years out of these computers. The things that I'm really excited about, the Thunderbolt 5, I think is gonna be huge. That's only in the Pro of the Mac Mini, but it is on these laptops, which is awesome on all the ports, which is super cool. It's nice to see Apple adopting a new standard slash technology early. They obviously did adopt USB-C really early.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  In some ways.

• 34:54David Imel?

  In some ways.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:55David Imel?

  Pieces of it. Yeah, but Thunderbolt 5, the spec only came out like a year ago, and there's only like a Razer laptop out right now that has it. So it's kind of cool seeing them push that out. So hopefully more SSDs come out with it. I think the Nano Texture display is, looks very, very good. It's $150 extra on these.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  It looks so good, though. When you opened it up and we were all looking at it, I was like blown away.

• 35:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, we had like a long conversation about it yesterday.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  I'm kind of torn on it. I think it looks phenomenal. And that's because I took it out the box and it's been two days and it doesn't have any fingerprints or anything on it yet. And it looks so good.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Just never touch it.

• 35:32David Imel?

  Yeah, just don't ever have anyone ever touch it with anything.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  What I'm curious about is I've had the Nano Texture Pro Display XDRs for years now, and those things do not wear well. Like if anything touches it, if any dust touches it, if you use any polishing cloth, that's not the Apple one, it is super easy to get like marks on it and like to have it permanently scuffed and just start looking kinda rough.

• 35:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Which we kinda learned in real time. Like some of ours look great still, some of ours are looking kinda like fingerprinty, which is bad.

• 36:00David Imel?

  David.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  And at this point, I'm like, I guess I'll have to start touching it with my hands and figuring it out because I don't wanna recommend people buy a Nano Texture laptop or a Nano Texture iMac. But isn't there also a Nano Texture iPad? Like, how's that one doing? I wanna see like how these different Nano Texture displays are aging over time to determine if I wanna recommend them or not.

• 36:23David Imel?

  Good question.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I said, it looks phenomenal now. It's even a little bit brighter underneath this Nano Texture. I think it's 1000 nit standard SDR max brightness instead of 600. And also the battery, even though it's the same size, M4 is giving it an extra hour or two, like a bunch of little things. But yeah, Nano Texture, I'm not sure how it's gonna age, but it looks incredible right now.

• 36:43David Imel?

  It looks incredible right now, yeah. I feel like if you're working in cafes a lot and your windows and stuff, it's gonna be a huge benefit.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, or on airplanes. This is my airplane editing laptop, which is why I'm like, this is maybe great.

• 36:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It makes perfect sense on a laptop in terms of glare, because you always have more opportunity for glare in something that's mobile. But it also does, and you know, maybe we're just not the best at cleaning them correctly. Maybe you have to wipe a smudge immediately, but like, we both looked at our monitors and they're not great. And then you think of something that you have the potential of touching every single time you open and shut it. It's just asking for smudge city.

• 37:20David Imel?

  The Pro Display XDR was also the first product they shipped with Nano Texture, and I wonder if they've improved it since it came out really good. Cause it's been a long time. Other changes that are awesome, love that they added an additional USB port on the lowest end 14 inch, because originally the regular lowest end 14 inch had one less USB C port, which is cool. So glad they added that. And then 16 inch, they base it at 24 gigabytes of RAM now, which is awesome. They jacked that up.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Oh, and it goes up to something crazy. Isn't it 128 now? Uh, I think it's 128 Max now.

• 37:56David Imel?

  Is it really?

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I had this second highest.

• 37:59David Imel?

  128, geez.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it goes crazy.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  It's a lot of memory.

• 38:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool, $1,000?

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. The upgrade, no one said it would be cheap. Definitely will not be cheap.

• 38:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  But yeah, these laptops, also, why is this the marketing for it? Hold on, Apple Intelligence is here. Uh, yeah.

• 38:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Everywhere.

• 38:16David Imel?

  It's also, yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Every, you have it.

• 38:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it says hello, Apple Intelligence, doesn't say it's here.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:21Andrew Manganelli?

  So you can say hi to it, but it's still a while away.

• 38:23David Imel?

  It is out now, technically.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  If you upgrade to Sonoma, it's on my M1 Max laptop already.

• 38:28David Imel?

  The official build is out, but the only things it really does is like the writing tools. And if that's really what you want out of Apple Intelligence, then like, good for you.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  You won't need.

• 38:37David Imel?

  I think everyone's waiting for the Siri upgrades that aren't coming until like March of next year. I think they're slated for spring, so that's kind of crazy.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  I'm waiting for that till I review Apple Intelligence.

• 38:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  It's gonna be like three more months or something.

• 38:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  We'll see.

• 38:50David Imel?

  But I think that these are really, really incredible machines, and if you didn't buy an M1 or an M2 or an M3, these are pretty good pickups, so.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  I have a question.

• 38:59David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Should I just touch? Should I just?

• 39:01David Imel?

  How do I figure this out?

• 39:03Speaker 02

  How do I figure out how well it ages? Do I just start going crazy, touching it?

• 39:06David Imel?

  Um, I think I have to.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  It depends how long you're planning on using it for.

• 39:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you have like a niece or a nephew?

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 39:12David Imel?

  Cause they would just.

• 39:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, just let them use it for like a week, and that's like a year of wear and tear.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I'm gonna use it for a few more days for this review and then start putting the review together. I think in the next few days, I gotta figure out if I gotta review this.

• 39:24David Imel?

  That's fair.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Um.

• 39:25David Imel?

  Just, uh.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  You don't want to just touch it live on the pod.

• 39:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you wait till we get B-roll of it?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, there's a little.

• 39:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Before you send Venn and Brandon off a cliff.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  A little.

• 39:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  It's not coming up, see, I don't know.

• 39:39David Imel?

  Dang.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  I don't know, man. Also, that poor soul that has to update the compatibility list of the Apple.

• 39:44David Imel?

  The Poshing call.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Every year, when someone on Twitter goes, it has been updated. Somebody logs in and like changes the updates, yeah, good job.

• 39:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  You did it. Wow.

• 39:54David Imel?

  So that's about it. We also had, obviously, the IMAX, but that's, there's nothing new besides they now also come with

• 40:02Speaker 02

  M4.

• 40:03David Imel?

  M4 and the Nano Texture option.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:06David Imel?

  But the Nano Texture option on those are $200 instead of $150.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Is it like based on screen size?

• 40:12David Imel?

  I guess it's based on screen size, but then the 32-inch Pro Display XDR being $1,000 is out of control. But it's been years since they first started shipping that, so it's probably way more expensive to add.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  It's gotten better, because the iPad Nano Texture is like 100 extra dollars, maybe?

• 40:26David Imel?

  I think it's 100 bucks.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay.

• 40:28David Imel?

  Yeah, and it only comes with the 1TB and 2TB models.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Right, which to me was a sign that they didn't want it to be, it's either a sign that they don't want it to be on everyone's iPads, or a sign that you should pay more to get the 1TB just to get the Nano Texture. It's just to walk you up the ladder. It's one or the other.

• 40:46David Imel?

  There's definitely that. I also think that they think that digital artists are gonna be the ones that want it the most, and they need more storage, but...

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Which is fair.

• 40:54David Imel?

  Also, they don't need more storage. You're forcing them to have more storage.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 40:58David Imel?

  So.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Alright, we're gonna wrap this section up with a little, it's not a game as much as it's-

• 41:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Thought experience.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:05Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I don't know. It's a question I'm posing out, because there's not a lot that happens.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  You guys can play along at home, because I'm sure you're gonna have your own answers to this, but the theme of this question that we're all thinking about is, what is an app that you use all the time and like to use, but is actually a bad app?

• 41:26Speaker 02

  And I've thought about this a little bit. I have a couple answers, actually.

• 41:30David Imel?

  I've at least-

• 41:30Andrew Manganelli?

  A lot of these are gonna wind up being super niche, but I'm hoping that the listeners out there, when they hear it, they'll feel seen.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Mine is not niche at all.

• 41:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not niche? Good, that's better. More people can relate to it. Start it off, yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Start us off.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  The Google Messages app.

• 41:45David Imel?

  What?

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:46David Imel?

  I love that app.

• 41:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  I also use that app all the time.

• 41:50David Imel?

  Why don't you like-

• 41:50Speaker 02

  What is bad about it?

• 41:52David Imel?

  Besides them turning feature flags on and off constantly.

• 41:55Speaker 03

  More so when I open it up, it's just text messages from people I know, some that I don't. Random spam numbers that don't get blocked because it does a good job of like separating the spam into like its own little spam and archive section. But more than a few get through and just end up in my inbox. Same. Like I'm looking at one right now that has an exclamation point next to it already. And it's like, hi, I'm Sarah, a recruiter. Like, why did that not just? It is weird when it like makes it into your main inbox, but is basically saying it's spam while it's in there like. Yeah. Like it is. I guess it's not a bad app functionally. I just wish it was like a cleaner experience. Like if there was folders where I could just like be in one section that is only people in my contacts. All the messages are there.

• 42:39David Imel?

  Okay, I have a question.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 42:40David Imel?

  So didn't they, or aren't they going to start adding different categories that you can jump between?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  That's what I'm hoping.

• 42:48David Imel?

  I think that that might be something they're working on.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I believe so.

• 42:50David Imel?

  I just find that very funny because just like we talked about the AR glasses and VR headsets crashing into each other and trying to become the same thing. Email and texting is crashing into each other trying to be the same thing. It's like, let's make the texting app just like email.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  The closest analogy I could find to what I would want unfortunately is just email.

• 43:09David Imel?

  It's faster email.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  Just give me like better filter options, I guess. Like, so I can go into the section of numbers I don't know. Like, it does a good job of auto deleting the, the one time password text messages that you got. Like, there's a feature for that. Does that now. But just give me like one step more.

• 43:24David Imel?

  I think the Pixel does it a little bit better, right? Doesn't it have better spam filtering on Google Messages?

• 43:31Speaker 03

  I get a ton of spam. I don't know.

• 43:32David Imel?

  Oh.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  It might.

• 43:34David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:35David Imel?

  Okay.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  At least up until this election week, I've gotten it.

• 43:39David Imel?

  I do find it funny though, because I kind of hate the way the email is formatted. Like, it's a very old system that feels like it could really be streamlined. There's always these truncated messages and sometimes parts appear and disappear. And it's like texting is so much simpler.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Can we interest you in Notion Mail?

• 43:57David Imel?

  No.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  Are you on the waitlist still?

• 43:59Speaker 03

  I'm still on the waitlist.

• 44:00David Imel?

  I am too. Because my app that I hate on mobile is Notion.

• 44:07David Imel?

  Can you, okay.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 44:10David Imel?

  I don't know how many people use Notion that listen to this podcast. It is now a fairly popular productivity app. The mobile app experience for this is just like. What if you took a desktop computer Excel spreadsheet and put it on your phone?

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Whack.

• 44:26David Imel?

  Except you couldn't see anything.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Whack.

• 44:29David Imel?

  You hit a notification to jump to a certain task that you're in, but you have no idea what even project that task is in.

• 44:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, can we all name our least favorite thing about the Notion app?

• 44:38Speaker 02

  It's that.

• 44:39David Imel?

  It's that.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  And it's also when I try to move things around, when I try to reorder things in a, like a tabbed list. And I try to grab the handle and then I grab, I end up selecting a text, so I have to like unselect the text and like hide the keyboard and then try to grab the handle again and then move it and then the whole thing moves. And now I'm moving it to the wrong place.

• 44:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Moving things sucks.

• 44:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I just want to say, on a foldable device, it's not a problem.

• 45:02David Imel?

  Yeah, because, because the Notion app just feels like it's a desktop app, but there's not enough screen space for you to see anything.

• 45:10Andrew Manganelli?

  The main reason, the thing David's talking about is like, if you get tagged in a specific, uh, like task. So let's just say, podcast at, uh, like, uh, podcast clip thumbnail. All right, so we're like a couple deep inside. So the way we have it is we have the waveform, uh, category, then we have episode 258, and then within that are a bunch of subtasks. So that would be like, in the waveform, episode 258, post-production, clip three thumbnail, right?

• 45:47Andrew Manganelli?

  So as I get the notification for that, all I can see is clip three thumbnail and waveform podcast and three dots in between, like. And then if I want to see where that is in there, because when we're doing things, you have to back out and it's basically just find it. I mean, because you can't like get in to see where that sub, that folder, uh, like, uh, timeline is going.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the notifications that you get is like, Mark has updated a property, script, Mark has updated a property in research testing. I click on that, research slash testing, that is a default that we have for every video that we ever do.

• 46:22David Imel?

  Cause it's a template.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Task, but in different projects.

• 46:25David Imel?

  Right.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  And you don't know which project you're in.

• 46:27David Imel?

  Right, you have no idea which project you're in. Once I'm in that, you can hit the back button next. To research testing, it just brings you back to your inbox.

• 46:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Just to home.

• 46:34David Imel?

  I do not understand. I feel like there are like two to three ways that people's brains work and mine just doesn't work like that.

• 46:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Why is that not a dropdown menu on the top?

• 46:42David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 46:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Just like research, research, and then you drop and it's just in order in chronological order of what sub folder you're in and you just climb up.

• 46:50David Imel?

  And it's crazy because it seems like there are so many people that are so into Notion, like people have like made. Yeah, like the desktop app is pretty good. If you were using Airtable before Notion, it's like 10 years ahead of what Airtable used to be. Cause Airtable is just Excel on the internet and it's really bad. I don't get it. But yeah, the app for Notion, guys, come on, just you don't have to make it look and work exactly the same as the web app. It just has to do the same things.

• 47:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Sounds like a skill issue.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  I think we all agree.

• 47:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Mobile is pretty brutal.

• 47:20David Imel?

  If you have a foldable, you're in the elite club, but for us plebs that are using our bricks.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  We just gotta carry one of these around everywhere. We can always have Notion. Okay, yeah, fully on board with that. I like that one. What did I write down? I have three.

• 47:34David Imel?

  At Notion, please fix.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I have a category of apps.

• 47:39David Imel?

  Okay.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Banking apps? Every, um, every, in every smart home accessory has its own app that you have to like log into to connect to it. And I use the Google Home app. So then what I'll do is I'll open Google Home and then I'll go to like ingest that new smart home thing. Like I have an August smart lock, so I have to download the August app and then log in and then connect the lock. And then I'll go to Google Home and then import my August account and then bring that lock into Google Home. But then the August app just kind of sits on my phone and sucks.

• 48:12David Imel?

  You still have to have it?

• 48:13Speaker 02

  I don't think so, but if it ever stops working in Google Home, then I would have to go re-download it, reinstall, set it up again. Like I just have, I just leave it on my phone.

• 48:23David Imel?

  I would like to introduce you to the Matter Protocol.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Oh man, is this gonna save me? Cause at this point I have a bunch of, I have a Me Ross app. I have a bunch of random other smart.

• 48:31David Imel?

  Outlet apps. Matter allows you to manipulate those apps within just the Google Home app.

• 48:37Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, that you can do that, but you can only do the like. The very basic functions of like on off unlock lock like if I saw like I have like Mark has like four different types of lights or like smart plug so like Miro's in Brighton. I don't even know what else I have on here, but yeah, so like those will all be in the Google Home app and I can use through voice commands on my Google Homes or like can turn on off, but if I want to like set a schedule timer for them that I have to do inside the app or if I or if it gets disconnected and I have to reconnect it.

• 49:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I have to have that app to reconnect.

• 49:12David Imel?

  Right. I am going to make an analogy. I think that smart home apps are very similar to charging apps for CCS based cars.

• 49:22Andrew Manganelli?

  A hundred percent.

• 49:22David Imel?

  Because there are a lot of options in the ecosystem because it's a standard and so everyone wants in on it. But nobody actually commits to like making the interface good. So all the CCS charge based apps are also terrible, but it's the same thing.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Occasionally the car manufacturer will try to make their app the hub for all of the charging networks.

• 49:44David Imel?

  Like Ford.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  So like the Ford Pass app will include the logins and accounts of a bunch of those. But even that is like never flawless.

• 49:54David Imel?

  Yeah, no, I agree with you on the smart home stuff. It's it's not good.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  It's pretty nice.

• 49:57David Imel?

  Matter is trying to fix this and it's a slow burn.

• 50:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know if it ever will though, because it's just the connectivity aspect of it and it's not going to be able to change the control.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  With Matter, will I be able to set up a August Smart Lock without ever downloading the August app?

• 50:13David Imel?

  Yes, yes. In Google Home, there's a connect to a Matter enabled device button and you scan a QR code on the product and you don't have to use the August app.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Oh, that sounds great.

• 50:24David Imel?

  You just do everything through Google.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  I'm officially a huge Matter fan.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Whatever I gotta do to help this out, I would love to.

• 50:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I still wonder where though, like.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Because like I can't set a schedule for the smart plug that I have of like turn on five o'clock, turn off five o'clock.

• 50:42David Imel?

  For me, Ross.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Through the Google Home app?

• 50:45David Imel?

  Yeah, I think. Maybe not.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Dude, I don't know. I still feel like I can't even set my temperature.

• 50:51David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. In a Neos app. Matter is slow growing and still not a ton of devices have it.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  I feel like the ultimate issue with it will be is that because of so many different companies are still making the things for Matter, like they're gonna incentivize you to download the app.

• 51:05David Imel?

  Yeah, I do not have scheduling ability. That's fun.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:08David Imel?

  Yeah, also just the way that home, smart home systems work in general, like sometimes I can tell it to turn on all of my lights and it just doesn't work. And then I'll manually turn everything on and then five minutes later, everything just like turns off. Because it's, it's like, is there a queue in my internet system that is just like backed up for five minutes? Like, I don't really know what's going on, but.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  I had also set up some routines through the Google app where it would do a couple of things in succession.

• 51:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  And then one by one, they would just break. So I'd say, I'd have a thing where I say, good morning, and it's supposed to like turn the lights on, open the shades, tell me the weather and like look up the news. And then one by one, it would like, I'd say, good morning, and I'd be like, sorry, I can't do that, but then do the other three things. And then it would say, sorry, I can't do that. Sorry, I can't do that. And then just do two of the things, it would just start breaking.

• 51:58David Imel?

  Yeah, so that's right.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  A bummer.

• 51:59David Imel?

  I do want to do like a state of Matter episode because we had a Matter episode a while ago, and it's been quite a while to see if anything's actually better.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Has it been?

• 52:08David Imel?

  It's been like a year.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:09David Imel?

  That's.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Maybe like a year.

• 52:12David Imel?

  Does what?

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Does Matter Baby work yet?

• 52:13David Imel?

  Matter Baby?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:15David Imel?

  What is that?

• 52:15Speaker 02

  What is what?

• 52:16David Imel?

  Matter Baby?

• 52:17Speaker 02

  What?

• 52:18David Imel?

  It didn't work. I, I thought I could get you.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  What's a matter, baby?

• 52:21David Imel?

  No, nothing, man. I thought I would try a dad joke. It didn't work.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  It's pretty good.

• 52:26David Imel?

  Leave them to me.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it would have worked if you did it.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  Andrew, what's yours?

• 52:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I'm realizing that like, there are all these apps that I don't use very often, but they all have very specific things that annoy me. Do you know what I'm gonna say on this one?

• 52:38Speaker 02

  That's a good one.

• 52:39Andrew Manganelli?

  The Orbi app?

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  Wait, what is that?

• 52:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a router.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Mesh network.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:45Andrew Manganelli?

  The internet speed test button doesn't test the speed of what you're downloading from the actual router. It tests the speed of the internet connection directly plugged into the router.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Directly to your house.

• 52:59Andrew Manganelli?

  So every time I test my speed, I'm getting like 800 down because all it's testing is the speed that it's getting into the main router.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  It's just your router going, "Yep, I'm still getting 900 down." But that's not what I was asking for.

• 53:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm like sitting on the opposite side of my house like, "Wow, YouTube's being really slow. Is it a problem with YouTube or am I getting a really poor connection over here? Do I have to change the mesh network?" And it's like, "No, man, you got 900 down." It's like, "I definitely do not."

• 53:21Speaker 02

  I also recently added a satellite and I didn't remember the user, I had a different phone. I didn't remember the username and password login. Have you ever forgotten your username and password to Orbi?

• 53:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't believe so.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Do not forget.

• 53:36Andrew Manganelli?

  These are my favorite.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Nightmare because you have to go into this web portal and then like find this info on the bottom of the router and that's the temporary password to log in to like reset the admin password to finally like log back into the app. It is a disaster. I, I, I wouldn't wish for getting that password on anyone. But, and then you actually add the satellite and it goes through this whole thing. It says like, there's like nine different steps of like what it's doing and you just can't do anything while it's working.

• 54:03Andrew Manganelli?

  It's awful.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  And then at the end, you're like, "I guess it, to give it credit, it tries to like auto manage things. So I put this new satellite in and then a bunch of devices started connecting to it because they were close to it. But it didn't really let me.

• 54:15David Imel?

  For those wondering, a satellite is like a mesh network node that it extends the network.

• 54:20Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, I would argue that the majority of problems that come from a home wifi system is when it tries to automatically do things for you instead of you getting depicted.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  No, for sure. I mean, that's the whole reason that new wifi routers now have dedicated smart home networks on them. Because a lot of smart home

• 54:37David Imel?

  Stuff only works on 2.4 gigahertz, but a lot of the intelligent switching will switch between 2.4 and 5 gigahertz depending on traffic load. And it'll just break smart homes just because they just don't work on 5 gigahertz.

• 54:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Right up. The majority of my Chromecast issues have always been from like, oh, you're connecting to the like satellite that is 150 feet further than the the regular router that is right here on 2.5. It's it's crazy.

• 55:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I have one other small one and I I've tried this with Marquez already, but this is called Hatch. It is a white noise machine for Lane. It is arguably the most popular white noise machine for like nurseries. I just want you to try and change the volume on it. That's the hatch. So you can click that. I already got you into that.

• 55:22David Imel?

  Connected.

• 55:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I want you to find the volume change.

• 55:26David Imel?

  Does it look nice?

• 55:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It looks fine. It's like blue. It's like rainy.

• 55:32David Imel?

  It's just not intuitive.

• 55:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Like it is not intuitive.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Changing the volume should be like one of the users.

• 55:36David Imel?

  I'm also be one of the most basic.

• 55:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Lane is home with my in-laws right now and I'm praying she's not sleeping. So if David accidentally rips this thing.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  I will also say the Devi lay app is similar.

• 55:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it? So like, right now, David's on the screen. It says touch ring and there are like three main kind of things you can do, which is essentially changing the different types of white noise that'll play. So there's like sleep, rain, what's the other one? Ocean. So those are all there. You can select those and pick which noise you want.

• 56:10Andrew Manganelli?

  All right. And now he's clicking the little hamburger menu on the side.

• 56:13David Imel?

  You don't use.

• 56:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Trying the volume buttons. That's not it. Nope.

• 56:17David Imel?

  I literally.

• 56:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Trying to scroll. It's not scrolling anywhere because it's only one page.

• 56:21David Imel?

  Only on a page. I don't. Does it have a volume?

• 56:24Andrew Manganelli?

  It does. It has a volume.

• 56:25David Imel?

  I found it.

• 56:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep.

• 56:26David Imel?

  Oh, wow.

• 56:27Andrew Manganelli?

  It is like.

• 56:28David Imel?

  That's doesn't. That doesn't look like a button.

• 56:30Andrew Manganelli?

  It's this like 10 pixel tall little thing, almost like in Spotify where you're with a songs playing on the bottom.

• 56:37David Imel?

  Wow.

• 56:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Except the background of the button is the exact same color as the rest of the screen.

• 56:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:42Andrew Manganelli?

  So it just doesn't look like a button at all.

• 56:44David Imel?

  Is how you you have to click white noise and then you have.

• 56:47Andrew Manganelli?

  The volume.

• 56:48David Imel?

  But literally everywhere else, just wow.

• 56:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It is super unintuitive. One one night I was home with Lane and Claire's like, oh, I always just turn the hatch down a little bit after like she goes to sleep. And I probably took me 20 minutes to turn the volume down.

• 57:02Andrew Manganelli?

  So yeah, that's extremely frustrating.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  That's a good one.

• 57:07David Imel?

  Do we want to also talk about apps that are surprisingly good, even if they're very simple?

• 57:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll do that. We can be positive.

• 57:15David Imel?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 57:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, come on.

• 57:17David Imel?

  Yeah, why not? Okay, so I have this app for my apartment building called Butterfly MX.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  It's for, so, okay.

• 57:25David Imel?

  Yes.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  It's just for your building.

• 57:27David Imel?

  It's just for my building, so.

• 57:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it like a white label app that like the building signs up for or something?

• 57:31David Imel?

  Uh, I don't know if I'd consider it white label. It's a, it's a lock company that it's like a smart lock system for apartment buildings. So they have a little touchscreen outside and you have, there's an app for it and you can use it. And the thing I really like about it is the UX is like insanely simple, but it is insanely consistent. Like it always works. The only time I have trouble with it is when I'm literally standing right in front of my apartment and because my phone is like trying to connect to my wifi network, it can't really do it. So I just turn the wifi network off and it works. You just literally slide to unlock. It unlocks the front door of the apartment building. It's super simple. You can create, there's, it's so simple.

• 58:16David Imel?

  It literally looks like they coded this in a day. Like it's not very like.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's super minimal.

• 58:20David Imel?

  But you can create virtual keys and you just put in like the name of the key, how long you want it to last, if it's recurring.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Oh, that just reminded me of a terrible one.

• 58:31David Imel?

  So you can create, you can create like a virtual key that you then text to someone. And say it lasts for this amount of time and it gives them a QR code and also a PIN. So when they go outside your building, they can either just scan the QR code or put in the PIN. Always works. It has a video doorbell, so they can like ring me and it rings my phone and I can either answer with video or not. I just love that it's like, the app literally looks like it was coded in one day.

• 58:58Andrew Manganelli?

  The UI on that looks better than every single smart home.

• 59:01David Imel?

  This is what I'm saying. Like sometimes you just need functionality and you don't need it to be pretty. And I'm fine with that for this app and it is surprisingly very, very good. So shout out to Butterfly MX.

• 59:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 59:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:14Andrew Manganelli?

  You have a bad one. What's the bad one?

• 59:16Speaker 02

  So when I upgraded to the new Google Home stuff, it was with the goal of getting rid of the Nest app from my phone entirely, because that thing sucks. So I have the new thermostats, I could finally get rid of Nest, but I realized I have one more thing, which is the Nest Yale Smart Lock on my like back door, which is supposed to have all those features, like I can make a virtual key, I can make a one-time password. So if someone's visiting, I can give them the passcode that only works one time and then someone else tries it, it won't work. All these nice features it's supposed to have, but now that I don't have the Nest app, it's literally not connected to my smart home ecosystem at all.

• 59:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  So it just has the one passcode it's always had and I can't remotely open or close it. I can't do anything with any of those features. It's just.

• 1:00:03Andrew Manganelli?

  You can't open or close, you can't unlock it from your Google Home app?

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:00:07Andrew Manganelli?

  We've really?

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's in the Nest app. Damn, unfortunate.

• 1:00:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh. I use a Uphi one, I can do that, but I do need the app, which kind of sucks, but.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Does the Nest app still exist or is it just all in Google Home now? I mean, there are still things that exist in the Nest ecosystem that are like mostly functional in the Nest app and like kind of also work in Google Home, but are mostly in Nest. That was like where the old thermostats are doing and the old sensors and all that, which is why I got rid of them. But yeah, I mean, it still exists. It's just not good.

• 1:00:38David Imel?

  I want to say my one request for Butterfly MX is they have an Apple Watch and like a, I'm pretty sure they have a, it's not Android Wear. Google Wear OS.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Wear OS.

• 1:00:49David Imel?

  App, and that's great, but I don't wear Smart watches. They don't have a widget and I would really like a widget on my phone so that I could just tap unlock and it would unlock my front door. I have to open the app and slide the swipe to unlock.

• 1:01:02Andrew Manganelli?

  So many specific apps that could, if there was a widget for one button, I would be, my like Subaru app to just heat my car up, cool my car up. Like if I just had a widget with just one thing, I would just like, I want to heat it up.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  It's goaded.

• 1:01:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Dude, the Subaru one is like, put your fingerprint in, wait. Hit heat. Oh, you're sure you want these settings? Yep, okay. All right, sending to card. It takes so long.

• 1:01:27David Imel?

  I will admit they have a like a long press actions and you can hit unlock front door. So that's nice, but I just want it to be a button like my lights. I feel like that would be nice. So, yeah.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Andrew.

• 1:01:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Favorite app?

• 1:01:40David Imel?

  Favorite app. Or app that's like really good, even if it doesn't need to be.

• 1:01:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, there's an app called Udisc, which is a disc golf app. It's like a disc golf scorekeeper. Um, it is, it's just really, really good. They put a ton of time into it. It is like the default for tracking your score on the course. There's, I think they do a great job by having a pro version that's $30 a year, which is like expensive, but if you're playing once a week, that seems like a really reasonable price to ask for when disc golf is so cheap in general.

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  Is it useful if you like get an ace by any chance?

• 1:02:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, you could put down, you got an ace.

• 1:02:20David Imel?

  Did you get an ace?

• 1:02:23Andrew Manganelli?

  But like, it's just really well done. The pro version gives you some extra functionality. Like I can track my score on my watch. Like I can just input everything on my watch. I don't even have to take it off, but it's great at just being like, the hole you're going to is this way. The next, where you're shooting for is this far away. You can track each individual shot. You can share like your different scores. The pro version for, but you can do almost all of this for free. It just like will only let you see your last 10 rounds, which I think is super reasonable in a free app. Um, they just do a great job and it's almost like, you need it in order to play disc golf, but I'm glad they actually do a good job with it. So shout out Udisc.

• 1:03:00David Imel?

  Awesome. That's good. I have a couple of random apps that are like not worth shouting out, but there's an NYC Ferry app.

• 1:03:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, that's such a good one.

• 1:03:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Fire app.

• 1:03:10David Imel?

  It's rated like 4.9 on the, on the app store.

• 1:03:14Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a transit app?

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Wait, there's also.

• 1:03:16David Imel?

  I take it all the time.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  There's also the, if you get enough parking tickets.

• 1:03:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's also so good.

• 1:03:23David Imel?

  Wait, wait, wait. Yes. The pay or dispute.

• 1:03:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Dude, it's so.

• 1:03:27David Imel?

  Okay, this is the craziest. It is also rated like 4.8 stars on the app store.

• 1:03:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is hilarious.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  Cause all you're doing is paying for it.

• 1:03:35David Imel?

  It's also one of those. Apps that is like, it's so archaic and it looks so old.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  It's just a web portal.

• 1:03:42David Imel?

  But you just put in your license plate number, it just shows you the tickets you have, you can pay, you can pay with Venmo.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  You have a shortcut for this?

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  No, it's not a recent install that.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 1:03:51David Imel?

  You can pay with Venmo.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  So you pay your dispute and you're like, alright, I have a ticket I want to pay, I will scan the barcode on the ticket. Or put in the license plate number, which is here, or the ticket number, you put that in and then you can pay with Venmo. Or what, you know, credit card.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  I would kill for my dentist to have this. They mail me a letter every time I have to pay for the dentist.

• 1:04:10David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Every time I leave, I'm like, can I pay? And they're like, no, you're good. And I was like, but please, I don't want you to mail me.

• 1:04:16David Imel?

  I totally forgot how good the parking ticket app is.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 1:04:19David Imel?

  It's so old looking, like it's, everything's square and everything's just like a Target, you know, and Android Studio.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  One more thing that just reminded me of, I was just in Greenwich, Connecticut, and I guess this whole neighborhood has like, this like parking meter system where they all use the same app. And I scanned it and just used the web portal, but the dude I was with had the app on his phone and there was a, a live activity showing how exact, a live countdown of how much longer he had to park.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  They're on it.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  And it would count down in real time until the parking expired.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was pretty cool.

• 1:04:49David Imel?

  They have that in San Francisco too, and you can just, you can pay for more time in the app. So you don't have to run back to your car and add more time.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just like, open your phone, you're like, oh, I got 30 seconds left, you just add it, you're good.

• 1:04:59David Imel?

  It's dope, it was crazy.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Very cool.

• 1:05:01David Imel?

  Alright.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  We should, do you have one, Adam?

• 1:05:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Oh, do you have a good app?

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  I have a good and a bad one.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  Hit me.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  And they're related.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  So the bad one.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  Notion and Notion Mail.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  The bad one is Goodreads, which Amazon bought. It's an app that you use to like track your reading and stuff like that. It's fine, it just hasn't been updated in forever.

• 1:05:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  And the good one is an alternative called the StoryGraph, which is actually really nice. It's a small team of people that are working on it. And the thing that I like that they do that Goodreads does not, is you get all these like cool graphs and statistics about your reading patterns and everything like that. The only problem is there are way less people on the StoryGraph. So it's annoying because you can't see like what your friends are up to, what are they reading, blah, blah, blah. I've been trying to get people in my life on StoryGraph. So this is my last plea for everyone to join StoryGraph so that we can just like have a good reading app instead of you, being forced to use Goodreads.

• 1:05:55David Imel?

  This is the, the classic social graph problem.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  Yep, it is.

• 1:05:58David Imel?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  But that was it.

• 1:06:01David Imel?

  Dang.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Alright. I would join you if I read.

• 1:06:04Speaker 03

  It counts audiobooks.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  I can't read.

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:06:08David Imel?

  Well, I think we should take it to trivia, part two extravaganza, the trivia-ing. Triv-ing.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  That's a movie reference, right?

• 1:06:16David Imel?

  There's like a movie. Everything's like the something-ing and it's part two, yeah.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Nice. Which app?

• 1:06:24David Imel?

  I know that one.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  Was not made by Apple. Logic Remote. Clips. Apple Motion. Full Deck Solitaire.

• 1:06:36David Imel?

  Full Deck.

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  Is there half-deck Solitaire?

• 1:06:39David Imel?

  Maybe.

• 1:06:39Speaker 03

  I'm not sure. Maybe.

• 1:06:40David Imel?

  There might be.

• 1:06:41Speaker 03

  Not made by Apple?

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Interesting. That's another one that I've heard of, some of them. I haven't heard of some others.

• 1:06:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  That's fascinating. I'm sure those of you at home are already furiously yelling the answer at your phone right now, but we'll take about that a little more and the answers will be at the end. One more break. We'll be right back.

• 1:06:59David Imel?

  Good luck with the dishes.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

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• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  All right, welcome back. This next section, we've done before, but I'm bringing it back. It's overhyped or underhyped. Andrew likes to call it hype or wipe. Marquez wants to call it dope or nope. We don't have a name yet, so if you have a better name, let me know.

• 1:08:32Andrew Manganelli?

  We have to pay Judd Nerf for dope or nope?

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  Oh, dang. I mean, worth it, because that's a dope name. So, the way this is gonna go is I'm going to name certain tech and a couple non-tech things, mostly tech though, Marquez, relax. And you guys have to say whether that particular thing is overhyped, underhyped, or perfectly hyped. You each get one perfectly hyped.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  Just one.

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  Just one throughout the course of this. And I have like 20, maybe?

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  20?

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  I have a lot. We don't have to go through all of them, obviously, but like, just let me know when you guys have had enough. I'll stop twisting your arm. First one, starting off hot.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Mechanical keyboards.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Hmm, overhyped.

• 1:09:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Agreed.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Mechanical keyboards.

• 1:09:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I think they're hyped. For the general population, they're overhyped, for sure.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  They're overhyped.

• 1:09:24David Imel?

  As someone who

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  To some.

• 1:09:25David Imel?

  Got really invested in building mechanical keyboards in like 2013 and spent like literally all the money I made at my day job on mechanical keyboards for like four years.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  That would be overhyped.

• 1:09:35David Imel?

  And then now uses an Apple Magic keyboard.

• 1:09:39David Imel?

  Yeah, I think that they're pretty. I think that they can feel nice to type on, but for some reason, my fingers just don't want to travel at all anymore.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  It's like low profile.

• 1:09:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Artisan, I feel like. Like a mechanical keyboard at this point is like an artisan kind of

• 1:09:53David Imel?

  Totally.

• 1:09:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, it's almost, yeah, you're doing a bunch of extra for it to look nice and sound nice, and the functionality it's giving you is not that much.

• 1:10:02David Imel?

  It's like a wedding cake.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, my theory, my theory about life on Earth is that, whoa.

• 1:10:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Where's this going?

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Is that every utility has a pocket of it that is extremely overdone because people get really into it.

• 1:10:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Every utility.

• 1:10:18David Imel?

  Which is a great part about humanity, I will say.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21David Imel?

  I love that part.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  You just get really into it. What time is it? Oh, I'll check my watch. What time is it? Ooh, I'm glad you asked about my watch. My favorite item in the universe. Like, that is everywhere.

• 1:10:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel attacked.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34David Imel?

  So what's your answer?

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  I think overhyped.

• 1:10:36David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:10:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone goes overhyped.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:38David Imel?

  Cool, cool, cool.

• 1:10:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Next, Nano Texture Display.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  I was gonna say that, because I was just looking at it. I was, I just installed Notion. I was like, why does it look better?

• 1:10:47David Imel?

  Okay. But you just unboxed this a couple of days ago. Everything looks amazing and like the best thing ever the first like week. So you have to like give it some time.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  I'm so worried. If this thing ages poorly, I'm gonna be so sad.

• 1:11:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the chance of that happening is, there's a higher chance of that happening than not. So I'm gonna go with overhyped because if you love something so much and then in like three months, you're like, I regret paying, I regret paying more money for this to now be something that annoys me.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  I think on the Studio Display XDR, it is definitely overhyped because it's a thousand dollars. And it's, yeah, the Pro, sorry, Pro Display XDR.

• 1:11:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, like a thousand dollars for that, I would never pay. Um, maybe 150 on the MacBook Pro. So what's worrying me specifically is you've had this MacBook Pro, the space black one for a little while.

• 1:11:37David Imel?

  Yeah, a year.

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  And we put them side by side and like your keyboard is way more worn in and like the trackpad where you use the trackpad is like, you can see the gradient of where you use it, where you don't.

• 1:11:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  And I'm like, it looks so good new.

• 1:11:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  Where everything is nice and even and, and matte.

• 1:11:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  And the display is so, so crisp and matte and perfect.

• 1:11:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  I'm like, how long is it gonna take before I just accept that it can't look good anymore?

• 1:12:01David Imel?

  The keys of a brand new laptop looks so good. And then the oils of your fingers just decimate them.

• 1:12:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Does Debrin have a transparent skin yet?

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  A transparent skin? No.

• 1:12:11Andrew Manganelli?

  That will just protect it?

• 1:12:12David Imel?

  Like PPF?

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Dude, I would, I would PPF my, I would actually ceramic coat my keyboard. I think that might be the move.

• 1:12:22David Imel?

  Are you, are you on the train of those people that have those rubber gasket things?

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  I used to have one. Equivalent of what it does. So actually you can, you can put the, so you can ceramic coat the leather seats of your car.

• 1:12:34David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Which you won't really notice the difference, but it should prevent like the denim color from rubbing off onto your seats. It's like a protective layer. And I'm actually considering.

• 1:12:44David Imel?

  Do they depress though? Can you depress?

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's super thin. Yeah.

• 1:12:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know if you can do that on keyboard keys.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Just the keys, just the top of each key.

• 1:12:54David Imel?

  I would pay like maybe fifty to a hundred dollars for that stock.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:58David Imel?

  To make my keyboard always look new, worth it.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  Yo, this might be a Shark Tank idea.

• 1:13:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Doesn't that start getting grimy?

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  What, the keyboard?

• 1:13:06Andrew Manganelli?

  The coding?

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Um, I don't, no, because it's easy to clean off. You like wipe it off. Everything's fine. You wipe it off. The same thing with your, it's like hydrophobic on top, so you just wipe it off.

• 1:13:16David Imel?

  Does that react to oils the same way it reacts to like pigment from your jeans?

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  No, it's hydrophobic in general. So I think any like wax or oils or water, just, just you wipe it and it's all gone from the top. It's easy to clean. That's the whole point of it, is it being easy to clean.

• 1:13:32David Imel?

  Very good Shark Tank idea.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  I kinda like it. Uh, a nano texture currently,

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  currently overhyped, but could turn out to,

• 1:13:44Andrew Manganelli?

  We've broken Marquez.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  Underhyped, maybe, maybe.

• 1:13:47David Imel?

  I think it could be underhyped on the computers because like no one's talking about it.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  It's new.

• 1:13:52David Imel?

  And having it in looks very nice. So if you end up really liking it, I would say that could be underhyped.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58David Imel?

  It looks pretty amazing.

• 1:14:00Andrew Manganelli?

  When we are sitting in this exact spot next week and there's eight fingerprints on it, you're like, ahh.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Ask me in a week, yeah.

• 1:14:05David Imel?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:14:06Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, next. Video essays on YouTube.

• 1:14:09David Imel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  I have a rant about, I have a video essay about video essays. Really? That's a great idea.

• 1:14:16David Imel?

  I, uh, me personally?

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm going with overhyped, but I think they are a valuable insight into the trends happening on YouTube, which is, we realize that longer videos are stickier than ever before. It doesn't mean everything has to be an hour long video essay, which kind of feels like some people think that that's what has to happen, but it's, it's interesting to note. So it's overhyped, but good to, good to keep an eye on. That's my take. It's just.

• 1:14:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I'd probably say overhyped, not because I don't like them, but because I'd probably just listen to it like a podcast anyways. So all of the work they're putting in for the animations and photos and whatever that-

• 1:14:58David Imel?

  Yeah, but you wouldn't have found it if it was on a podcast app.

• 1:15:01Andrew Manganelli?

  True.

• 1:15:02David Imel?

  Got it.

• 1:15:02Andrew Manganelli?

  No, totally agree. But that's still a ton of extra work they're doing for me to just listen to it.

• 1:15:08David Imel?

  I have a lot of thoughts.

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  I knew you would.

• 1:15:12David Imel?

  This is how you, I know just why you're like, looking at David when you said it. You were like, hour-long video essays.

• 1:15:18Andrew Manganelli?

  And for you, he's like, "Manus."

• 1:15:21David Imel?

  Okay, so I have a problem with the current state of YouTube video essays because I think a lot of people are truncating video essays with commentary videos, and they're very much not the same thing. A lot of times, commentary videos will just run like, an hour, you know, and they'll use, the sources they use are just tweets and things like that, and they'll like rant about things. But they're just kind of like, "Thing bad, thing bad, look how dumb, thing bad," commentary videos. And that is like the most popular, common kind of one-hour video on YouTube, which is very annoying to me.

• 1:16:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, we usually run around an hour thirty, so.

• 1:16:02David Imel?

  Okay. And we, well, yeah, we usually also say "thing bad." Sometimes they say "thing good," which we did on this episode.

• 1:16:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 1:16:10David Imel?

  But, yeah, I think it feels like they're masquerading as video essays. A video essay should be, "I have an opinion, and I'm trying to prove, I'm trying to change your mind to my opinion by using a number of examples and sources and these things."

• 1:16:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:27David Imel?

  And I think that video, actual video essays are between, I think they definitely used to be underhyped, now they're just kind of hyped, but-

• 1:16:39Andrew Manganelli?

  So you're using your perfectly hyped?

• 1:16:40David Imel?

  Oh, gosh.

• 1:16:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:16:42David Imel?

  I think real, okay, actually, no. I think, I think, I think real video essays on YouTube are underhyped because they're more rare, and because when you actually like ingest one, it feels really good and your brain sort of lights on fire a little bit. That's really what got like, anyway, no, it's great. I, I love the heat, you know? But, but yeah, I think, I think a lot of people think that video essays are, are what commentary videos are, and they're not the same thing. So I would say underhyped if we're actually talking about real video essays.

• 1:17:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Underhyped.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  The purism, the purist.

• 1:17:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Real video essays.

• 1:17:18David Imel?

  Real, but I'm just tired of the commentary videos that are just like, how dumb do these people have to be? It's like, this is the same as reality TV. You're just.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  But it's an hour long.

• 1:17:29David Imel?

  So is reality TV.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:17:31David Imel?

  Yeah. So just accessing the part of your brain that feels superior to other people.

• 1:17:35Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just a podcast with pictures.

• 1:17:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a.

• 1:17:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Podcast.

• 1:17:40David Imel?

  Which I'm fine, which I think is.

• 1:17:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think there's anything wrong about it. I just think they're spending a lot of extra time for me to listen to.

• 1:17:45David Imel?

  For sure, but YouTube is such a better.

• 1:17:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I totally agree. That's why we are on YouTube.

• 1:17:51David Imel?

  Yeah, right. Exactly.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  Is this podcast a video essay?

• 1:17:54David Imel?

  No. Not at all.

• 1:17:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the opposite. This is at best a video rough draft.

• 1:18:01Speaker 03

  We are convincing no one.

• 1:18:02David Imel?

  This is the brainstorming session. We are just here talking to you.

• 1:18:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. Last time we did this, you guys all said that chat GPT was overhyped. Is it still overhyped?

• 1:18:12David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:18:13Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, next.

• 1:18:15David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm gonna go with the. Yeah, I still feel as though everyone is saying, this is gonna change. Every ad that plays is like, do you understand how much this is going to change your productivity and your workflow? And like, maybe for some people that do a lot of coding, like there was a new story that came out last week that Google now uses 25% AI-generated code, which is pretty wild, but for almost everything else, um, it is not the revolution quite yet that we were promised.

• 1:18:49Andrew Manganelli?

  And what you're saying is exactly why, like, when we say overhype, it doesn't mean it is a terrible thing. It means it's getting way too much hype for what it's doing. It doesn't mean it is a terrible, bad necessarily.

• 1:19:00David Imel?

  You could use it to brainstorm. You could jump back and forth between you could use it.

• 1:19:03Andrew Manganelli?

  There's plenty of things that chat GPT does that is impressive, but.

• 1:19:06David Imel?

  For some people, it's the greatest thing I've ever used. It's amazing, but.

• 1:19:10Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the new fire.

• 1:19:11David Imel?

  It's being marketed.

• 1:19:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Thanks, Sundar.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  It's a wheel.

• 1:19:17David Imel?

  It's a wheel.

• 1:19:17Andrew Manganelli?

  All right. Foldable smartphones.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  I'm feeling perfectly hyped coming.

• 1:19:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  Is this it?

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I need to think about this one.

• 1:19:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Anything about this one?

• 1:19:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I would say underhyped because I just think the general population still doesn't even think about them.

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  Where I was leaning you.

• 1:19:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Like if we're talking outside our world, I don't think anyone cares about foldable phones.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Overhyped.

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  Overhyped.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm going overhyped just because of how much aspect ratio comes up every single time people have a folding phone. They're like, what do you do with it? Oh, you know, it's a bigger screen. Yeah, but but what do you do with the bigger screen?

• 1:19:52Speaker 03

  Notion.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  You watch a video at the same size.

• 1:19:53Andrew Manganelli?

  At the exact same size.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  The same size.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean multitasking occasionally, Notion. Once in a while, but like I think for most people, not actually that much more useful.

• 1:20:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  So I think it might have to go into over.

• 1:20:06Andrew Manganelli?

  You said something once that perfectly describes what you're saying, and that was the pixel fold has the best closed experience.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15David Imel?

  Yeah, that says something. I definitely think once the trifolds start coming out, I think they will be underhyped until people realize the magic. But currently, a one by one aspect ratio, I just don't see the benefit of because I'm not the type of person who needs two pieces of information to be next to each other all the time. And even if that's useful to reference, you have to like do a bunch of gestures to get them to be next to each other. So you spent all that time when you could have just been in one app copying the information over to the other app.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  You could save pairs, but I see what you mean.

• 1:20:50David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:20:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask you, Adam, because you're physically using one right now?

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, whoo. I would say underhyped only because I mean, underhyped on all sides. Like I think developers are also not taking full advantage of foldable devices.

• 1:21:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a good point, yeah.

• 1:21:08Speaker 03

  So like you can't have the experience if you don't have the developers behind it, supporting new thought provoking experiences. So I would say underhyped in that sense.

• 1:21:16David Imel?

  Once the trifles come out, it's all over.

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  It's a wrap.

• 1:21:18David Imel?

  Yeah, it's gonna be underhyped as heck and I'm gonna just.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  It's all over.

• 1:21:22Speaker 03

  And then overhyped and all of them break because of the outside folding screen.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:27Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, Thunderbolt 5.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  Well, it's not hyped very much.

• 1:21:32David Imel?

  Yeah, there's only two computers out that.

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  I think I have to go underhyped just because.

• 1:21:39David Imel?

  So you think it is actually underhyped then?

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  I think it's almost not hyped at all, but I think has some really awesome potential for some people, including video editors like myself, moving huge projects from computer to computer. Just in general, more bandwidth is nice.

• 1:21:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  It's not going to be some amazing revolutionary thing, but I don't hear it being talked about very much. So I'm going to go underhyped.

• 1:22:00David Imel?

  I think that it is going to be so expensive to buy Thunderbolt 5 drives in the first two years of it being out that it almost does not matter. Like when we had, when we first had Thunderbolt 3, everyone was like, oh my God, 40 gigabits per second. You can move data so quickly, you can attach an eGPU to it, but everything related to Thunderbolt 3 was like obnoxiously expensive. And that's just prohibitive for anyone that wants to use anything with it, so.

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, I would say. It's not even being hyped at all. Nobody's even talking about.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  Besides us.

• 1:22:34David Imel?

  It on the Mac. We're the only ones talking about it on the Mac.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, like Apple, Apple will like mention it.

• 1:22:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  And it'll be like.

• 1:22:40David Imel?

  They didn't even mention it.

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  I think they did. It was one, they were like, it was on the little like, you know, the sheet they put up at the end with all the. It'll be like Thunderbolt 5 and you're like, ooh, and that was it.

• 1:22:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:50Andrew Manganelli?

  What about Thunderbolt 6?

• 1:22:51David Imel?

  That might be my perfectly hyped. What about Wi-Fi 7? That might be my perfectly hyped because it's so expensive that it's prohibitively expensive, but nobody's really talking about it, so it's. That's fair. I'm going to say that's my perfectly hyped. Alright. Totally.

• 1:23:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll go under.

• 1:23:05David Imel?

  Underhyped?

• 1:23:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Just because no one's talking about it. I mean, yeah.

• 1:23:08David Imel?

  Besides us.

• 1:23:09Speaker 03

  Not enough people.

• 1:23:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm sure there's other tech people talking about it, but I don't think anybody is.

• 1:23:13David Imel?

  Well, when I say us, I mean like the tech people.

• 1:23:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, I just want to make sure people don't think we are the literally only people who notice that.

• 1:23:20Speaker 03

  Nobody else is talking about this.

• 1:23:21David Imel?

  Apple ProRes.

• 1:23:24David Imel?

  ProRes.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25David Imel?

  Overhyped.

• 1:23:26Speaker 03

  Overhyped.

• 1:23:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Hard agree.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Is it hyped that much?

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:32David Imel?

  ProRes Log would be a different situation.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  Apple literally said.

• 1:23:35Andrew Manganelli?

  ProRes Log.

• 1:23:36David Imel?

  ProRes Log?

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  That's the one I meant.

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  Under.

• 1:23:38David Imel?

  Underhyped.

• 1:23:39Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:23:40David Imel?

  Yeah. I think the difference in quality between ProRes Log with a LUT on it and regular ProRes is insane.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  Dramatic.

• 1:23:47Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:23:47David Imel?

  But you really, really need a very large capacity phone to actually take advantage of it.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's also like, where are you publishing it? Because if you're just sharing it on like a text thread with your friends, they might not even notice.

• 1:24:01David Imel?

  Or care.

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  But if you're gonna put it on YouTube or maybe an Instagram reel, maybe some people might notice. It's, it kind of depends on who the audience is for the thing. But to me, just watching back my own footage, huge difference.

• 1:24:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  So, I like it. I'm gonna go underhyped.

• 1:24:16David Imel?

  Underhyped.

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  You're staying, staying true?

• 1:24:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll stay over. It's so much data.

• 1:24:21David Imel?

  It is a lot.

• 1:24:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Every time Mark has is like, "I just grabbed a couple of clips on my phone." And we're like, "All right, cool. We have to wait half an hour to get this off."

• 1:24:28David Imel?

  I still have not, a lot of people have tweeted at me and messaged at me being like, "This is how you get the ProRes Log data off my phone." "I promise you, I've tried every method you're suggesting, and my phone just freezes and crashes."

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  So it's not, it takes years.

• 1:24:42David Imel?

  Maybe it's too much data. I don't know.

• 1:24:44Speaker 03

  It's too much.

• 1:24:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  Uh, Samsung One UI.

• 1:24:47David Imel?

  Do people? Overhyped.

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  Overhyped.

• 1:24:50David Imel?

  Yeah. I really don't like Samsung's UX, and I haven't liked it in a very long time.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  The new One UI has gotten some very positive feedback, I've noticed.

• 1:24:59David Imel?

  How, are we on 15? One UI 15?

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  No, I think.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Well, Android 15, but I guess it's like One UI, what is it?

• 1:25:06David Imel?

  One UI 7?

• 1:25:06Speaker 03

  7, yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, One UI 7.0.

• 1:25:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09David Imel?

  Yeah, the icons look terrible.

• 1:25:12Speaker 02

  In YouTube tech circles, it is getting hype. Outside of that, I don't know that I see anyone else talking about it.

• 1:25:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I feel like we almost have to look at it inside tech circles, but I also.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  Inside tech circles, it's. Maybe overhyped.

• 1:25:29David Imel?

  Yeah, overhyped.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  In like the general corpus of like, my aunt has a Samsung phone and she has no idea. It's just a software update. She's like, oh, they changed some stuff.

• 1:25:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  Pretty underhyped.

• 1:25:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I went back to like a Samsung phone and my last one was in 2017, I think. And I always missed it, but I was on Google and like kind of stock Android and I thought it looked so much better and the UI was nicer. And the thing kind of holding me back was like, I really just don't love the icons and now I'm on it and I just don't care at all. It's totally fine. It works. It still looks good, whatever.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  Fresh coat of paint.

• 1:26:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's just different, I guess. And you get used to it. Every UI thing is like, I just have to get used to it again. And then you get used to it and then you never think about it. So.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  I will say I need to try One UI 7 because I've not tried it and so I should not have an opinion on it yet, but.

• 1:26:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think 7 is out for a lot of things.

• 1:26:24Speaker 02

  It's coming out.

• 1:26:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's like rolling out slowly.

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  But I just have never liked Samsung's icons since One UI.

• 1:26:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I think their icons are probably the worst looking icons.

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would agree.

• 1:26:34David Imel?

  Agreed.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, fresh coat of paint. I'm going overhyped just because of the YouTube channel. I mean, there's gonna be people who are extremely excited for One UI 7 and that's totally, again, every utility has a crowd that's like,

• 1:26:48David Imel?

  Yes, go.

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  This is my thing.

• 1:26:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll probably go overhyped on it too.

• 1:26:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:52Andrew Manganelli?

  If there's people really excited about it, I think it's a worse looking UI than the.

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  Pixel UI looks better.

• 1:27:00Andrew Manganelli?

  UI, yeah, but like it's totally fine and it's working perfectly for me.

• 1:27:05David Imel?

  Yes. All right. Mag safe.

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  Wait, on laptops or on phones?

• 1:27:09David Imel?

  Yeah, on phones.

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  The iPhones like mag safe?

• 1:27:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  Ah, well, okay.

• 1:27:14David Imel?

  I think it's pretty perfectly hyped.

• 1:27:16Andrew Manganelli?

  iPhone mag safe?

• 1:27:16David Imel?

  You used yours already.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  You used yours.

• 1:27:18David Imel?

  I know.

• 1:27:19Speaker 02

  So you gotta pick over/under.

• 1:27:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say under because I think it's a thing that when it first came out, people were like, "That's cool. There might be an accessory ecosystem for this." There wasn't for a long time and people felt like it was overhyped for a while, but it's cascading effects, having moved to both Qi 2.0 and also all the Android case manufacturers now making magnetic phone cases that work with the ecosystem. I think that quantifies as being underhyped because it had such cascading effects to the rest of all mobile stuff.

• 1:27:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's underhyped because I don't think the Android atmosphere understands how good it is. It is just some magnets and I totally understand that and when Qi 2 comes out, it's going to be the same thing and I'm just gonna be happy for that. But man, I'd be lying if I said I didn't pick my last phone, making sure that it had a case with MagSafe compatibility with it.

• 1:28:17Speaker 02

  It's a huge deal.

• 1:28:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Kind of why I went for, I liked my Zenfone a lot, but I had to put a stupid sticker on the back that I know wasn't perfectly aligned to have MagSafe, then couldn't put a case on it. I think it's the best accessory for smartphones, period.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Damn. You guys assuaged me. I was going to say overhyped, but and it's because of what you said, like there was a whole bunch of promise and then for like a year, nothing happened and it was like, "Oh, I guess MagSafe is kind of a dud." And then slowly in the background, there was just all these MagSafe things popping up. Now everyone I know with an iPhone has some kind of MagSafe, something happening, whether it's a car mount or a case with a charger or whatever. And I actually had a non-Apple company tell me about an accessory that they made for their own phone and they called it MagSafe compatible. They told me to my face in a briefing that it was MagSafe compatible. And I was like, "Did you say that by accident or it's MagSafe compatible?" They're like, "Yeah, MagSafe. They didn't say Qi 2."

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  So yeah, this world of like, everything's gotta have MagSafe is totally real. So I now lean underhyped. It's actually coming around.

• 1:29:20David Imel?

  I think utility-wise, it is like really high up there.

• 1:29:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's also underhyped because people with iPhones, it's just like a pretty average thing they have now and they're not that hyped about it. And then people who just don't use it are like, "It's just a stupid magnet."

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  Which is.

• 1:29:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I love that magnet.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  They're sick. Think about it. Magnet, invisible force. Sick. Yeah, underhyped, for sure. I'm in.

• 1:29:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Next one. The PS5 controller.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  Underhyped.

• 1:29:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Underhyped?

• 1:29:49Speaker 02

  I love the PS5 controller.

• 1:29:50Andrew Manganelli?

  If you play Astro Bot, then you're gonna say underhyped.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  No, dude. It's so good. And it's underhyped because not enough developers are taking advantage of it. I still, I feel like it's like MagSafe. Like when we played that initial demo and we were like, this is the greatest controller ever made. And then we got like a little bit in occasional games, but not that much.

• 1:30:10Andrew Manganelli?

  The new Astro Bot game.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  The new one, sick. I want more games to use features like that, like the sprint button in 2K when you hold the right trigger. As your character gets more tired, it's harder and harder to push to sprint.

• 1:30:21Andrew Manganelli?

  That's in like Feel His Hamstring Snap.

• 1:30:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Immersive.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  Underhyped, underhyped for sure.

• 1:30:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Bang.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, overhyped.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  Overhyped?

• 1:30:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause the Xbox controller is and has always been better than the PlayStation controller.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  Really? Even now?

• 1:30:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Disagree. What up YouTube Shorts?

• 1:30:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I've always thought the Xbox controller layout is better than the PlayStation controller layout.

• 1:30:47Speaker 02

  The layout is better.

• 1:30:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I bet, which means it is a better controller.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  Ergonomically, it's better.

• 1:30:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Correct.

• 1:30:52Speaker 02

  But...

• 1:30:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Which means it is a better controller.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  Tactility matters and like, uh, durability matters. Battery life is actually pretty trash on the PS5 controller, I will say.

• 1:31:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I haven't played many consoles in a long time.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  Me neither.

• 1:31:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I think the offset joysticks on an Xbox controller is so much better than the joysticks on a PlayStation controller. And that completely takes the cake in every aspect possible because of...

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  I wish I could figure out why. Like I, I agree. When I use it, I'm like, oh yeah, this is more natural, but it's offset. I don't know why it's better, but it is. But the PS5 controller as a whole though.

• 1:31:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I like the PS5 controller, but the Xbox controller is better. And I think more people think the PS5 controller or PlayStation controller is better, which in turn for the game, I think makes it overhyped.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  You think more people think it's better than the Xbox controller?

• 1:31:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I think more people think PlayStation controller is better.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Man, this is, this is the most argued about thing in technology, more than Android versus iPhone.

• 1:31:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, man. Yeah, we think that's bad. The PlayStation Xbox fight is...

• 1:31:55Speaker 02

  It's pretty serious.

• 1:31:55David Imel?

  It's been that way since I was a Wii la.

• 1:31:58Speaker 02

  Just fighting in the parking lot, talking about Xbox versus PlayStation. It's crazy.

• 1:32:04David Imel?

  Yeah, I have to say I have not used a console besides the Switch in like a really long time and the Switch controllers are bad.

• 1:32:12Andrew Manganelli?

  The idea is incredible.

• 1:32:13David Imel?

  Great idea, great idea.

• 1:32:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Very difficult to execute.

• 1:32:18David Imel?

  They really need to switch to official Hall effect, uh, cause you have, you can replace it with Hall effect joysticks or you can buy like third-party joysticks. Anyway, we're off track. I, I have not really used the PS5 slash Xbox controllers that much. I think that the PS5 one looks better, but that doesn't really matter that much. It doesn't matter that much. Xbox does have an incredible like Xbox controller design lab and all their collabs and everything is cool.

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  PC compatibility.

• 1:32:48David Imel?

  Yeah, PC.

• 1:32:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Xbox has PC.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  He's saying PS5 has also.

• 1:32:54David Imel?

  No, I say Xbox has the advantage.

• 1:32:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I do. Okay. Sorry. I was like, Xbox does too.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  Most of the, most of the Windows stuff is Xbox.

• 1:33:03David Imel?

  More native.

• 1:33:04Andrew Manganelli?

  More native, yeah.

• 1:33:05David Imel?

  That's fair.

• 1:33:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Pretty sure you can do both.

• 1:33:06David Imel?

  That's fair. I don't, I'm not, I don't have an opinion.

• 1:33:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I would say almost every Rocket League person I see is using a PlayStation controller, it seems like.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:33:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause they're always the ones who have like the little UI in their stream that shows what buttons they're pressing and how fast they're doing it to hit their like.

• 1:33:22Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:33:23Andrew Manganelli?

  The Rocket League shots that make zero sense, but.

• 1:33:25David Imel?

  I will say, I think the touchpad thing in the center of the PS5 controller is kinda overhyped. Cause nobody ever utilized it that much.

• 1:33:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Isn't it for like typing pretty much? Like you have, when you have to type in like, that's kind of an easier way.

• 1:33:39David Imel?

  It feels like a redundant extra technology that probably costs more and they, nobody's really using.

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kinda like a menu selection pad. Like every car has a little touchpad in the middle.

• 1:33:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  And you like move on the touchpad to select your icon on the screen. It's kinda just that.

• 1:33:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  But I think that the, the pressure sensitive, uh.

• 1:33:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It is awesome.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are amazing.

• 1:33:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really cool.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright, how are we feeling? Couple more of these?

• 1:34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple more.

• 1:34:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. I haven't used my, my perfectly hyped.

• 1:34:04David Imel?

  I'm, I'm ready for it.

• 1:34:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm trying to get you guys to say it, but you keep talking yourself into corners.

• 1:34:09Speaker 02

  Adam's like, having a child.

• 1:34:14David Imel?

  Overhyped.

• 1:34:17Speaker 03

  Alright, on that note, PS5 Pro.

• 1:34:21Andrew Manganelli?

  We don't have it.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  It seems to be widely hated.

• 1:34:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, really?

• 1:34:25Speaker 02

  Just because it's $700.

• 1:34:26David Imel?

  Just because it's $700.

• 1:34:27Andrew Manganelli?

  That is tough.

• 1:34:28Speaker 02

  And, yeah, you... I think the graphics you get aren't actually... Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't seen that many videos yet, but it's not that much better, is it?

• 1:34:35David Imel?

  No, it's barely noticeable.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  Because games have to take advantage of it, and it's like, with the PS5, you had to choose between like, really good graphics, ray tracing, or high resolution. Or...

• 1:34:46David Imel?

  Framerate.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  Framerate. Yeah, it's like, quality of image or framerate. And so...

• 1:34:51David Imel?

  Oh, right, right.

• 1:34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so with this one, you could get both, allegedly.

• 1:34:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:55Speaker 02

  But then it's like...

• 1:34:56Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the 4K Nolos Dos...

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:58Andrew Manganelli?

  PS5?

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I've seen the... The graphics are better. Just marginally.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, from what I've seen.

• 1:35:05David Imel?

  I think the Virgus review was centered around like, how close are you sitting to your TV? Because if you are sitting really close, then it matters, and if you're not, then it does not.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  There are like, articles about can you tell the difference between the PS5 and PS5 Pro?

• 1:35:18David Imel?

  And if you have to ask that question, I feel like it's overhyped. But it is cool that the people who don't care and just want to spend the money can get both if they want it.

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you think they could make a, like, PS5 chill, that's just one that you can actually put in your living room and doesn't look like a spaceship?

• 1:35:35Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, it's the Mac Mini.

• 1:35:37David Imel?

  Chill.

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  The PS5 chill.

• 1:35:40David Imel?

  Yeah, just put it...

• 1:35:41Speaker 02

  In Pugneato.

• 1:35:41David Imel?

  Put it in your media center and just close the door.

• 1:35:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's...

• 1:35:46David Imel?

  That's how you win with that.

• 1:35:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Fair.

• 1:35:47David Imel?

  So...

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  Okay. Uh, now that we are on the other side of Mia the robot and have Colossus. I want to know, do you guys think Mia is overrated, underrated, perfectly rated?

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  In my circles.

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  Mia is overrated.

• 1:36:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Is your circle like you, me and Brandon? And Vin? For like, for the robot arm circle is like us and Sean, the guy who created it.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  It's uh, it's YouTubers I've talked to about it. Okay.

• 1:36:23Andrew Manganelli?

  But no one else has any of them.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  So correct. No one else has them, but Mia only unlocked a small fraction of what we aimed to do with the robot arm. Colossus unlocked everything we wanted to do, like the full 360s, the, the big wide movements. Mia was like, Mia, it was just like a tiny little taste and we were like, oh, what if we could, what? And we only learned of like the things we wanted to do because of having Mia. Right. How long do we have that? Two years?

• 1:36:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn motorized precision ladder.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  The ladder. They got me. They got me so good. So yes, I ended up buying both. But um, Mia would be overrated in my opinion, and then Colossus could easily be underrated. It does everything. Yeah. It's smoother, it's bigger, it's faster, it does everything, all the angles. Yeah. Colossus is incredible. Power supply room.

• 1:37:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Also true. iPad app.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  And it's worth it. It is worth it.

• 1:37:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Mia is the sickest lamp right now.

• 1:37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, it's gotta be overrated. Yeah. So Mia or Colossus?

• 1:37:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Mia over.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  Oh, Mia is overrated for sure.

• 1:37:25Andrew Manganelli?

  The fact that we bought a robot arm and it couldn't even do a 360 around the phone, we were like, woof. That was a little tough.

• 1:37:31Speaker 02

  You can do that with a gimbal, so yeah.

• 1:37:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn, true. Okay. Still made cool stuff with it. We made some really cool stuff with it. Yeah, we made it work.

• 1:37:41Speaker 02

  Next, top down shots.

• 1:37:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Whoa. I'm gonna go my perfectly hyped.

• 1:37:49Speaker 02

  That's perfectly hyped?

• 1:37:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm-hmm. I think it's become a staple of tech reviews in general. I think it's a fun way to add creativity and flair to looking at the same form factor of a thing 800 times a year. Um, I think. It adds to the video aspect and production quality of what we're doing and without taking away, you know, it's not taking away from what we're talking about just to be like creative and artistic.

• 1:38:14Speaker 02

  So I feel like I feel the same way about top downs that David feels about hour long video essays.

• 1:38:21David Imel?

  Hmm, explain.

• 1:38:22Speaker 02

  I think I see a lot of really weak top downs around the internet and I'm like, I know you're, you're trying to do a top down because you saw top downs and top downs look cool.

• 1:38:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:31Speaker 02

  But you can really get in the weeds with like what makes a good, proper top down and how, how it's lit and how it's set up and how you're framed and all these other things. And I think you can work your way up to appreciating the hype of a good top down. So I, I think I'm with you. I think it's right around perfectly.

• 1:38:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think it makes or breaks a video, but when you see someone who like nailed one, you're like, that looks really good. And there are some creators out there that you'll just be like, oh, that was good. They spent like a little extra time on that. And it just shows that you like care a lot about the video that you're making.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  And there's also like, you would think it's just a simple thing where you could, you could do everything you've ever thought of in a year of top downs. And every year there's something new that happens in the world of top downs or that we see that we never thought of, that I go, oh yeah, we should do that. Wow. That's, that's a totally, I had never thought of that. We should move the table up into focus instead of the camera down. All these crazy things. I think, yeah, there's a deep, a deep appreciation for that in my world, anyway.

• 1:39:32David Imel?

  Nice. Getting the lighting right for a top down is very hard.

• 1:39:35Andrew Manganelli?

  It is.

• 1:39:36David Imel?

  I tried my first top down ever, uh, many years ago and with this video. And it's just, there's so many shadows.

• 1:39:43Andrew Manganelli?

  So many.

• 1:39:44David Imel?

  To be fair, I only had one, it was a huge softbox, but I only had one.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  You already got a nice side accent light going on. That's, that's, that's already another dimension. People, that didn't come up till like year four of me doing top downs.

• 1:39:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you remember the one time we started making a set? This was up in Studio B, so upstairs, we made the set and we were kind of like, this looks like we're looking straight at it, not down at it. So we created this entire scene that made it look like it was standing upright on a counter. And then the intro of it was we pulled all the things away and the phone stayed there because it was looking down, not looking forward.

• 1:40:22Speaker 02

  It looked like a bookshelf shot that became a top-down shot with the movement of the props on the cable. Pretty sick.

• 1:40:29Andrew Manganelli?

  So you guys have all used your perfectly hyped?

• 1:40:31David Imel?

  I think so.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  I'm going perfectly hyped, yeah, there it is.

• 1:40:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, next, USB-C.

• 1:40:36David Imel?

  Underhyped.

• 1:40:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Underhyped?

• 1:40:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Why?

• 1:40:40David Imel?

  Because still not enough things have been updated with it yet, even though most things are getting updated with it. And it is so frustrating to only bring one cable and then always run into like the one or two things that just don't have it.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  I think that's why I'm at overhyped.

• 1:40:56David Imel?

  So you're overhyped?

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  Because if you talk to a regular person about how the front ones are USB-C and the back ones are Thunderbolt, and this one, you can use this cable and that one you can't, their eyes glaze over before you even finish the sentence.

• 1:41:09David Imel?

  Okay, well, are we talking about the spec inside of the USB-C port? Or are we talking about?

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  I think just the USB-C port.

• 1:41:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Existing.

• 1:41:17David Imel?

  As a shape?

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:18Andrew Manganelli?

  As a thing that exists in the world.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  As an I/O.

• 1:41:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not the shape's fault that everyone's made it so damn confusing.

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  But it, well, yeah, yeah, you're right.

• 1:41:28David Imel?

  USB 3.2 Gen 4.

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  We want it to be one universal thing, and that's, that was the hype of USB-C, and it's not that. There's a bunch of things inside of it.

• 1:41:38David Imel?

  It's half that at least.

• 1:41:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, we made like the, we finally maybe have gotten to the point where the shape is universal, and then we made it infinitely more confusing by adding a bunch of different specs to it.

• 1:41:49David Imel?

  Yeah, my thing is like, as long as the shape is universal, that's good enough for me. Because if the data transfer is slower than I want it to be, I can get over that. But I can't get over not having the right cable. And so always having one cable that is the right cable, no matter if it's like-

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  Are you fully USB-C'd out, your whole, everything?

• 1:42:06David Imel?

  The only thing I don't have that's USB-C is my AirPods, because I didn't, I didn't want to buy new AirPods just to get that. So I wireless charge them most of the time. And now I use, I use the PixelBuds mostly now. So, yeah, I'm pretty USB-C kitted out.

• 1:42:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It is nice to know now that if I ever do get anything that has to be charged and it doesn't have USB-C, I know that it's just some white label crap.

• 1:42:30David Imel?

  Or really, yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

• 1:42:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Like the fact that like- Really terrible Bluetooth speakers that cost like $10.

• 1:42:37David Imel?

  Micro USB.

• 1:42:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, some of them are even USB-C now. Like, we're getting to that point where even the total garbage has USB-C.

• 1:42:43David Imel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:42:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It still took the Logitech G Pro like up to a year ago to get USB-C charge.

• 1:42:49David Imel?

  I say underhyped because I want it to be more hyped so that people can freaking move over already. It's like almost there.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Magic mouse is there.

• 1:42:56David Imel?

  Finally.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Magic trackpad is there.

• 1:42:57David Imel?

  Yeah, great.

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  Airpads Max are there.

• 1:43:01David Imel?

  Airpads?

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  AirPods Max.

• 1:43:03David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:43:03Speaker 02

  Uh, Magic Keyboard.

• 1:43:04David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, all of Apple's accessories are, right?

• 1:43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:07David Imel?

  Like, every single one.

• 1:43:07Speaker 02

  Except, uh...

• 1:43:09Andrew Manganelli?

  As of them off.

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, now they all.

• 1:43:10David Imel?

  Every single one.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  Are there.

• 1:43:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  Thank god. Thank god.

• 1:43:14David Imel?

  The polishing cloth.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  We made it.

• 1:43:17David Imel?

  That is, that is underhyped.

• 1:43:18Andrew Manganelli?

  One last one?

• 1:43:19David Imel?

  One last one?

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  What about polishing cloth?

• 1:43:22David Imel?

  I legit, okay, look.

• 1:43:23Speaker 02

  Somehow underhyped.

• 1:43:24David Imel?

  Hot as hell, take. I think it's underhyped.

• 1:43:27Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the only one that works on the Pro Display.

• 1:43:30David Imel?

  It's also just so good. There's a lot of microfiber cloths out there. They all kind of work. Very often, they leave like little microfibers on the display that you're thinking, and then you have to wipe it off, and if you wipe it off with your hand, then there's another smudge, and it's this endless cycle of microfibering and wiping it off with your finger. The polishing cloth, I understand, it's $20.

• 1:43:50Andrew Manganelli?

  There's tiers.

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  $19.

• 1:43:52David Imel?

  Yeah, okay, look. Yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:55Andrew Manganelli?

  There's tiers.

• 1:43:56David Imel?

  It's not that bad. Like, it could be worse.

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  Here's the three tiers of microfibers. Tier one is you just wipe it on your shirt. Whatever your shirt is made of, who cares? I'm just getting a bunch of smudges off. There's something on my phone, I just got it off. That's tier one. Tier two is like any of the microfibers that come like built in like for free with like your screen, your case.

• 1:44:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, those are terrible.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  Any like random microfiber you can just get.

• 1:44:17Andrew Manganelli?

  They always have jagged edges for some reason.

• 1:44:19David Imel?

  Glasses, my, yeah.

• 1:44:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Glasses.

• 1:44:21David Imel?

  They were cut with those scissors.

• 1:44:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Kids' scissors.

• 1:44:26Speaker 02

  But like with those, at least they're an actual dedicated microfiber and they'll probably clean your phone.

• 1:44:30Andrew Manganelli?

  One time. Those are basically single use.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  Single use. And then tier three is like the good microfibers, which include apples and like a couple others that are like actually decent materials which are, and this kind of bleeds into the like car world where like you buy a microfiber to clean your car and there are like the ones that like pinch fibers out in the corners of when you clean the door and you want the like good thick one that actually cleans the car.

• 1:44:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:57Speaker 02

  Anyway, I think there's those three tiers. Apple is clearly in the upper tier. Is it in a tier of its own? Only with the nano texture devices, maybe?

• 1:45:07Andrew Manganelli?

  And for people with sensory issues. Do you know when you like grab a microfiber cloth and just, ugh, like sends a shiver up your spine?

• 1:45:14David Imel?

  It feels like a ton of little pins like pushing into your fingers.

• 1:45:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it happens more if you have like calluses for some reason, but there's like this.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  I've never experienced.

• 1:45:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Times where you touch like microfiber and it just feels like it's touching your hand really weird.

• 1:45:26David Imel?

  Because it feels like the fibers are like, are like hooking onto your.

• 1:45:29Andrew Manganelli?

  And the apple one feels good.

• 1:45:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:31Speaker 02

  I think I know what you're talking about.

• 1:45:33David Imel?

  Like Vin for Christmas a couple of years ago got me one for my car and it's like something you're just supposed to keep in your dash. Every time I pick it up, it feels like these little hooks grab into my hand.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  I think I know.

• 1:45:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so hard to describe.

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  No, I think, I think I know what you're talking about. Is it, is it like if you have like a little, like a nick on your nail or something and it grabs it? Is that what you mean?

• 1:45:55David Imel?

  No. It's like, it's like it grabs the little follicles of my fingers.

• 1:46:00Speaker 02

  I've never felt that.

• 1:46:01David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 1:46:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe you're turning into Spider-Man. I think there's, yeah. It's a very real thing. I'm just looking at a bunch of Reddit threads right now.

• 1:46:09David Imel?

  Why can't I not touch microfiber? R slash no stupid questions. I'm telling you.

• 1:46:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Today I learned.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, no idea.

• 1:46:14David Imel?

  So I will say, yeah, it feels like Apple's polishing cloth is beyond microfiber. It is like nano fiber.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that because of that, it doesn't feel like it's like hooking into my skin.

• 1:46:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, nice.

• 1:46:26Andrew Manganelli?

  It's because my spine is like tingly.

• 1:46:29Speaker 03

  It's like a low, it's a low pile carpet, super, super small fibers.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:46:34Speaker 03

  That wasn't on my list, but I'm glad we ended there.

• 1:46:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. If anyone can accurately describe what it feels like to touch a microfiber with like a sensory issue, please say it in the comments for us.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  Hooks.

• 1:46:45Speaker 03

  If you made it this far, please, please.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  I might have one in my desk drawer I could show you.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  I'll, I'll.

• 1:46:51Speaker 02

  Pick it up. I've had all kinds of my, I would love to figure this out.

• 1:46:53Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  Um, okay. Well, we should sign out soon, but before we do that, you've been thinking about those trivia questions, right?

• 1:47:01Speaker 03

  David, you look like you have not studied for this test.

• 1:47:04Speaker 02

  I have not.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  Wonderful.

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  Oh, wait.

• 1:47:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:47:07Speaker 03

  I'm going. Quick update on the score while they get the boards ready. Marquez with 22.

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  I don't have a pen.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  Andrew with 26.

• 1:47:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I borrow an extra pen, please?

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  David with 23.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  Dang.

• 1:47:18Speaker 03

  All right. First question.

• 1:47:20Speaker 02

  I'm not that far behind.

• 1:47:21Speaker 03

  Which of these is not a popular real EV slash hybrid car in China? A, the BYD Jam. B, the Wu Ling Bingo. C, the Aito M7. Or D, the Zeeker 001.

• 1:47:45Speaker 03

  Don't overthink it.

• 1:47:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez, don't.

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

  There's no way to either overthink or underthink this.

• 1:47:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I've perfectly thought this.

• 1:47:55Speaker 03

  It is chaos. It is just entropy.

• 1:47:59Andrew Manganelli?

  There's no way.

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  Perfectly thought this.

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  I don't know how to spell it either.

• 1:48:05Speaker 03

  That's fine. Spelling doesn't count here. All right. Flip, I'm in read. What do you got?

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  Put.

• 1:48:10Andrew Manganelli?

  You two put the same, right?

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  B, yeah.

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  The, the Bingo. You both put the Wu Ling Bingo?

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 1:48:18David Imel?

  It's the Zeke.

• 1:48:19Andrew Manganelli?

  There's hope. I put the jam.

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  The BYD jam?

• 1:48:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:48:24David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:48:24Speaker 03

  The BYD jam.

• 1:48:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I've just heard some BYD names. And I hadn't heard the jam.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  There's a BYD song that is like the most popular one, I believe. But I just changed the jam.

• 1:48:33David Imel?

  Dang.

• 1:48:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Huh.

• 1:48:34David Imel?

  You really got me. Andrew is just taking the lead.

• 1:48:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Jam?

• 1:48:38Speaker 03

  The sweet car name.

• 1:48:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Just saying, jam would be a sweet car name.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:48:42David Imel?

  It's not too late, BYD.

• 1:48:44Speaker 03

  All right, question number two. Which app was not made by Apple? The Logic Remote? Clips? Apple Motion? Or Full Deck Solitaire?

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  An app that you can download for your iPhone, iPad, or Mac, but it's made by Apple.

• 1:49:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait.

• 1:49:06David Imel?

  Wait.

• 1:49:06Speaker 03

  It's made by Apple.

• 1:49:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Not made by Apple, I thought?

• 1:49:09David Imel?

  Yeah, you said.

• 1:49:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, which one is not made.

• 1:49:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  That's what I mean. I'm just clarifying.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  You guys ready?

• 1:49:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Thank you. I got it. Yeah.

• 1:49:20Speaker 03

  All right, what do you got?

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  You all have different answers, right?

• 1:49:24Andrew Manganelli?

  We all have different answers.

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  Okay, David, what do you have?

• 1:49:26David Imel?

  I put Clips.

• 1:49:28Speaker 03

  Clips?

• 1:49:28David Imel?

  That's real.

• 1:49:30Speaker 03

  That is real.

• 1:49:30David Imel?

  That one's real.

• 1:49:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I put Logic Remote.

• 1:49:33Speaker 03

  Logic Remote?

• 1:49:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:35Speaker 03

  That is also real.

• 1:49:36David Imel?

  I think it's Full Deck Solitaire.

• 1:49:38Speaker 03

  Full Deck Solitaire?

• 1:49:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:40Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:49:41David Imel?

  There we go.

• 1:49:42Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:49:43David Imel?

  Microsoft.

• 1:49:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I was hoping.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  No, that. The Full Deck Solitaire. There's a, an actual app that I believe a mother-daughter team made, which is pretty cool.

• 1:49:51David Imel?

  No, I'm just saying, Microsoft always includes Solitaire on their computers.

• 1:49:54Speaker 03

  I was hoping it would trip you up if I.

• 1:49:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I was hoping one of the ones that basically had Apple in the name was a trick question. So I thought Logic Remote, you're like, oh, Logic, that's Apple, but the remote maybe was a third party.

• 1:50:05David Imel?

  Speaking of Logic Remote and Jam.

• 1:50:09David Imel?

  Do you guys remember iTunes jams?

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12David Imel?

  Way back in the day.

• 1:50:13Speaker 02

  They've had some weird stuff with iTunes.

• 1:50:14David Imel?

  It was so, it was the Spotify jams, but it was called iTunes DJ, not jams. It's called iTunes DJ. If you're on the same Wi-Fi network, you could go on iTunes and you could vote on songs in the queue and it would move around the queue based on what people wanted. It was a fully democratic iPhone or iTunes music listening.

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  What was the other thing they did? The social network inside of iTunes?

• 1:50:38David Imel?

  That was called Ping.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  Ping.

• 1:50:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:40Speaker 02

  Ping.

• 1:50:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  That was also a weird one.

• 1:50:43David Imel?

  That was an idea. So I just miss, I miss the DJ or whatever it's called.

• 1:50:48Speaker 02

  Well, now you got the Spotify AI DJ.

• 1:50:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 1:50:52David Imel?

  But Spotify jams like break all the time. You know what's worse than Spotify jams, though? Is the Apple Music AirPlay?

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  I don't use it.

• 1:51:02David Imel?

  AirPlay or?

• 1:51:03Speaker 02

  Don't use it?

• 1:51:04David Imel?

  Co-Play?

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  Overrated.

• 1:51:06David Imel?

  It's just, it never works. The thing where you allow other people to add to your queue. It just never works.

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 1:51:12David Imel?

  It's broken as hell. Anyway, sorry.

• 1:51:14Speaker 02

  Anyway, well, hey, that was a fun episode and I'm glad we got all the way to the end and had a bunch of stuff to talk about. Uh, next week, still probably a bunch more Mac stuff because we have the MacBook Pro reviews coming out, but much, much more. Send us stuff you want us to talk about too, if you have stories or fun stuff in the tech world. But until then, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Thanks for subscribing. Catch you guys in the next one. Peace.

• 1:51:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform is produced by Adam Alena and Ellis Rovin. We're partners with Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro to our music was created by Bean.

• 1:51:40David Imel?

  So.

• 1:51:41Speaker 02

  Bing.

• 1:51:59Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like grilling a potato.

• 1:52:02Speaker 04

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