Pod Insights Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast Can the iPhone 17 Pro Beat a Leica? About this episode David is back! And after putting the iPhone 17 Pro camera to the test he thought of a fun camera comparison game for us to play (link below if you want to play along). Before that, Marques gives his first impressions using the Meta Display glasses. We also talk about a bunch of new speakers and other hardware from Amazon and Google. We wrap it up with the interview between Marques, James Cameron, and Boz. It's a chaotic episode so we hope you enjoy!
Links:
Casey Neistat smart glasses video
Verge - Amazon event recap
New Google Home devices
David's slideshow - play along!
David's RAW pictures
This episode is brought to you by:
Shopify - www.shopify.com/waveform
Life360 - www.life360.com (code: wave)
Spaceship - www.spaceship.com/waveform code: waveform)
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/mkbhd
Miro - www.miro.com
Zapier - www.zapier.com/wave
Music provided by Epidemic Sound
Shop the merch!
Social:
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Hosts:
Marques
Andrew
David
Adam
Ellis
Join the Discord
Music by 20syl
Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
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Transcript 16,126 words · 11 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Andrew Manganelli? This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:33 Speaker 01 Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by
1:14 Speaker 01 who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.
1:22 Andrew Manganelli? Are you watching something, or no?
1:24 David Imel? Did you get...
1:33 Speaker 01 Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.
1:38 Andrew Manganelli? I'm Andrew.
1:39 David Imel? And I'm David.
1:40 Speaker 01 We're all back, and we, of course, have entered Techtober, which means there's still plenty to talk about. There was, what, an Amazon event this week, so there might be some cool stuff there. There was a Google, not an event, but an announcement.
1:52 David Imel? Review.
1:53 Speaker 01 As well, and that might also be interesting. David also wants to play a game, I've been told, so we'll get to that.
1:59 David Imel? Let's play it.
2:00 Speaker 01 I'm gonna wrap up with some snippets of, remember that James Cameron stuff that we were gonna have last week, but then we ended up arguing about horses and F1 cars?
2:06 David Imel? Mm-hmm.
2:07 Speaker 01 Totally worth it.
2:08 David Imel? Wait.
2:08 Speaker 01 But.
2:09 David Imel? To start off the podcast, I didn't watch last week's episode, but I just heard, I just saw stuff in the Slack about horses.
2:16 Speaker 01 We are getting dangerously close to just going right back down that rabbit hole, so I'll just say, we'll watch it later.
2:22 David Imel? And then you can weigh in.
2:23 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:24 David Imel? Cause it's, there's two sides to this debate.
2:26 Speaker 01 Is it like you need a tiebreaker opinion?
2:29 David Imel? Uh, it's just fun to imagine stuff, you know? But we will play those Jams Cameron interview clips for you this week because they're actually kind of interesting. But first, Andrew, show and tell time.
2:41 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
2:41 David Imel? What do you have to show us today?
2:42 Andrew Manganelli? Do you know how normally we put like the really important stuff of the week in the middle of the episode?
2:47 David Imel? Sure.
2:47 Andrew Manganelli? It helps our retention rate, keeps people along. Well, what I've got can't wait.
2:52 David Imel? Wow.
2:54 Andrew Manganelli? This is the pinnacle of the episode. It could be the pinnacle of 2025.
2:58 Speaker 03 This is definitely Andrew's crown.
2:59 Andrew Manganelli? But I have with me.
3:02 Andrew Manganelli? The Microsoft XP Crocs. They are in and they are glorious.
3:08 David Imel? I do like the gibbets.
3:09 Andrew Manganelli? I'm going to give you.
3:10 David Imel? Is it giblets or gibbets?
3:11 Andrew Manganelli? Do you want to hold this, Marquez? I just want you to describe it a little bit.
3:14 David Imel? I don't. I don't want to.
3:17 Andrew Manganelli? They are the greatest. They are every ounce of perfect that I thought they could be. They come in a nice little bag. That's the Windows XP Hillside Cloud background. They themselves have it on the top with like green on the bottom. And the gibbets are recycling cursor, the MSN butterfly.
3:40 Andrew Manganelli? What a folder.
3:41 David Imel? Files.
3:41 Andrew Manganelli? Files, yeah. Internet Explorer and Clippy.
3:45 Speaker 03 There are no words to explain my hatred of this product.
3:47 Andrew Manganelli? That is so.
3:49 David Imel? I have a question. Okay, so the inside of the croc.
3:53 Andrew Manganelli? Correct.
3:53 David Imel? Has all of these like divots, but they're negative divots. What do they call that?
3:59 Speaker 01 Indentations?
4:00 Andrew Manganelli? Is it? No.
4:00 David Imel? No, but they're opposite.
4:01 Speaker 01 Oh, positive.
4:02 David Imel? But divots go in.
4:03 Speaker 01 Are they engraved or embossed?
4:06 David Imel? Insets.
4:06 Speaker 03 Wouldn't that be debossed?
4:08 David Imel? They're bumps.
4:10 Andrew Manganelli? It's braille.
4:11 David Imel? It's braille. Yeah. Okay. So the Crocs have a ton of braille inside.
4:14 Andrew Manganelli? Texture, yeah.
4:16 David Imel? Doesn't that hurt your feet?
4:17 Andrew Manganelli? No, they wear out.
4:18 Speaker 03 It's for grip.
4:19 Andrew Manganelli? Haven't you ever worn those like Adidas slides that everyone was obsessed with for a while? You know what I'm talking about?
4:26 Andrew Manganelli? The whole bottom were just like these little.
4:28 David Imel? Yeah, those hurt my feet a lot.
4:29 Andrew Manganelli? I didn't love them. These wear out pretty quickly. I actually think they're more comfortable once these wear out. It's just a little texture so your foot doesn't slide around as much.
4:36 David Imel? Texture on my foot implies you're wearing these so often.
4:41 David Imel? That's your wear.
4:42 Andrew Manganelli? Wear your kicks, bro.
4:44 Speaker 01 The irony of me wearing the shoes right now that are like, where are your kicks?
4:47 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, you are wearing them.
4:49 Speaker 01 Yeah. This is a men's 10, but it looks like a I shouldn't say it.
4:53 Andrew Manganelli? It's pretty big.
4:54 Speaker 01 Like a 14.
4:56 Andrew Manganelli? They're pretty big. They, I don't know, they're fantastic. I think the funniest story about this is like, Marquez wasn't here in the episode when we talked about these getting
5:05 Speaker 01 Oh.
5:06 Andrew Manganelli? And so like a week ago, he's forwards me a screenshot of this email from Microsoft saying, hey, Marquez, would love to send you a pair of these. Let me know your shoe size. And Marquez screenshots it, puts it in Slack and says, Andrew, I just want you to know I said no to this. And I replied, I ordered those a month ago. Don't worry. So shout out to Corey. He works at Microsoft and he got me hooked up with these. I had to go through him. Like 10 people from Microsoft reached out and was like, I'll order them for you.
5:36 Speaker 01 This is, this is, okay, here's my question. Cause you seem to like Crocs and no matter how ugly they make them, you seem to like them more and more. Is there something they could put on Crocs that would make you not?
5:46 Andrew Manganelli? There's a lot of really bad Crocs.
5:48 Speaker 01 Vista on the Crocs, would you still like to wear them?
5:50 Andrew Manganelli? Vista?
5:51 Speaker 01 Like Vista themed.
5:52 Andrew Manganelli? No, it's Vista.
5:53 Speaker 01 So there is a line somewhere.
5:55 Andrew Manganelli? There's a line. There's lots of Croc lines. They've hit them. Have you seen the high heels?
5:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:00 Andrew Manganelli? They're rough. No, there's plenty of bad Crocs. I like just the OG clog. This one's a little fun. There's a KFC fried chicken one.
6:10 Speaker 01 I don't know if I've ever actually seen you wear them though.
6:13 Andrew Manganelli? Crocs?
6:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:14 Andrew Manganelli? That's cause Marquez
6:15 Speaker 01 I banned them.
6:16 Andrew Manganelli? Bullies me whenever I wear them.
6:18 Speaker 01 I banned them from the
6:19 Andrew Manganelli? We've had, we've had days where Marquez is out and the like five of us in the office go like, Crocs day? Question mark. And we all wear them.
6:27 Speaker 01 I have to, I want to ban Crocs without banning Crocs. I'll ban like open toed clothes, toe shoes.
6:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:34 Andrew Manganelli? Think of like chefs are one of like the strictest types of shoes you can wear in a kitchen and Crocs. Yeah. Because you don't want anything dropping on your foot and they need to be non-slip.
6:46 Speaker 01 What are chefs?
6:46 Andrew Manganelli? Kitchen's a chef? You want to know what a chef is?
6:50 Speaker 01 No, like the, is that a type of shoe?
6:52 Andrew Manganelli? No, no, no, it's a person. It's a, it's a career.
6:57 Speaker 01 I was saying it was a type of fish.
7:00 Speaker 01 Sorry. Chef footwear.
7:02 Andrew Manganelli? Lots of chefs wear Crocs. You were Googling that already. Cause like, did he mishear me? And then he typed in C H E F and I was like, I'm so confused right?
7:10 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:11 Andrew Manganelli? Yes. Sorry.
7:12 Speaker 03 We can end it there if you would like, but uh, no.
7:15 Speaker 01 Chef's shoes.
7:16 Speaker 03 These are, these are work shoes.
7:19 Speaker 01 I guess.
7:20 Speaker 03 They put in work.
7:21 Speaker 01 I guess, yeah.
7:22 Speaker 03 But second, I don't like the divots. The most interesting and important news of the week is that it has been announced that Bad Bunny will be playing the last Philadelphia Eagles game of the NFL season.
7:39 Speaker 01 I see.
7:39 Speaker 03 Was the joke there that the Birds are making the Super Bowl? Yes.
7:43 Andrew Manganelli? Do you need to hear the sound again?
7:45 Speaker 03 I didn't, I could barely hear it. Sorry, I think the mics are screwed up.
7:50 Speaker 01 Um, what are they saying?
7:53 Speaker 03 Exactly.
7:54 Speaker 01 Are we still a tech podcast?
7:57 Speaker 03 We're just talking about Windows XP.
7:58 Speaker 01 Technically it was a Windows XP. I don't know if this can be tied in somehow to tech as well, but that did get announced.
8:04 Speaker 03 Something, something, go Birds.
8:05 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, exactly.
8:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:07 Speaker 03 Go Birds.
8:07 Speaker 01 Go Birds. Speaking of things that-
8:09 Andrew Manganelli? Wow, that was crazy. That was the quadruple go Birds on the Waveform Podcast. They're all converted.
8:15 Speaker 03 I think Saquon Barkley pops up if you say it that many times.
8:19 Speaker 01 Speaking, let's see, speaking of things that are, that can fly because they're so lightweight.
8:27 Speaker 03 Birds, Birds fly into Windows all the time, which we were just talking about.
8:31 Speaker 01 And Windows are clear, kinda like what I'm wearing on my face right now.
8:36 Speaker 03 We got there.
8:36 Speaker 01 So, okay, so video viewers have already noticed that-
8:40 Speaker 03 I got Birds, boy.
8:43 Speaker 01 Nice find. That's an elite find.
8:45 Speaker 03 Good Birds.
8:46 Speaker 01 Uh, okay, so, so video users have noticed that I'm wearing a certain pair of glasses. Maybe you've clocked them even already as the exact pair of glasses that I'm wearing, uh, which is the Meta Ray-Ban displays. So not just the Meta Ray-Bans with the cameras and stuff, but I could be scrolling Instagram right now.
9:07 Speaker 01 Matter of fact, I have been this entire. No, I'm just kidding. No, but you, okay. So basically I've got the neural band on as well. I only set this up like 10 minutes ago, so I don't even have Instagram and WhatsApp plugged in, but I can pull up the UI right now. And it's up and I can start scrolling around and this, this brings us right back to where I ended the video that I made about them, which is, is the future, is the future of computing going to end up in a place where I could be looking at my UI in front of my face and it's glasses. So it's on my face. So it kind of looks like I'm looking at you, but I'm straight up not looking at you right now. I'm reading something.
9:45 Andrew Manganelli? If I try really hard, I can see like a, now, now I can't. It's really hard to see. There was like a glimpse, the picture.
9:55 Speaker 01 When I take a picture, it's really obvious because it lights up the little camera lens. Uh, but yeah, it is.
10:00 Andrew Manganelli? It's almost impossible to see you're looking at something. I feel like for a second, I thought, I thought I could see there's a line like here, but I think that's the wave.
10:09 Speaker 01 The wave guide.
10:10 Andrew Manganelli? Then I thought I saw like the top of the box first.
10:13 Speaker 03 I will say, I went fully around him 360 degrees while he was doing something and I could not see anything.
10:19 Speaker 01 I think because we've got a, we've got a bright point light source right, right.
10:23 Speaker 03 No, I was out in the, by his desk.
10:24 Speaker 01 I know. I'm saying because we have this, I can see it a little bit at certain angles.
10:28 Andrew Manganelli? Is something up right now?
10:29 Speaker 01 Yep.
10:30 Andrew Manganelli? Trying to see if I can see the reflection in your eye.
10:32 Speaker 01 Oh yeah.
10:34 Speaker 03 What is he looking at?
10:35 Speaker 01 I don't know. I mean, they get, I'm looking at album art right now because I was, I paused my music, which is on Spotify. It is really bright and very viewable to me, obviously. Isn't it like 3,000, 5,000 nits? 5,000 nits. I don't know exactly how they measure that. It's a projector. It's a wave guide. It's a whole system. It goes away automatically. So I'll bring it back. And I can read it pretty easily and just go glance back and forth between the person I'm talking to and the little art. And I can even put a little backdrop on it with my hand. But yeah, I, I am clearly in the metaverse now. Why did they make him glossy? Uh, good question. I think matte would have looked better one, and it still would have worked with the, with the sliding touch bar on the side, which is like a secondary input method. Uh, I don't know why they're glossy. Maybe that's just the first version.
11:20 Speaker 03 Ray Bans are always glossy.
11:21 Speaker 01 Is that true? I like the matte ones.
11:23 Andrew Manganelli? Not always. They have like a million different styles at this world.
11:26 Speaker 03 Like the, the classic.
11:27 Andrew Manganelli? The Blues Brothers Ray Bans.
11:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, they're just trying to be the classic.
11:31 Speaker 03 The what? That's why gamers say GG.
11:34 Speaker 04 Glossy glasses.
11:37 Speaker 01 That's what I've been saying. So yeah, these are $800. They come with the NeuroBand, which I'm wearing, which I also set up. They set up in maybe 10 minutes and got a quick software update. So it was actually pretty easy. And yeah, I just want to echo that this is a real thing that's going to start happening out in the world. Casey and I just made a really good video, by the way, about these, which was kind of comparing the future of mobile computing from two of the biggest companies working on stuff like this, which was Apple Vision Pro and Meta Ray-Ban's Display. Two very different products, but two very futuristic things. So go watch that. We'll link it below.
12:13 Andrew Manganelli? Can I try? Can we try?
12:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, you can actually.
12:18 Speaker 01 First impressions.
12:19 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, I'm interested on if we, we also have already confirmed that I can ask Meta to do things for my glasses.
12:24 Speaker 01 It worked at least once, but try that. You can, you should be able to see the Albemarle.
12:28 Speaker 04 So this isn't like the Vision Pro where only one person can wear them at a time, basically.
12:32 Speaker 01 Well, I have the control mechanism on my wrist right now, so I don't know how much he can do. Like maps? Do you see it? Can you give him the NeuroBand?
12:40 Andrew Manganelli? I feel like that's not that easy.
12:41 Speaker 01 Can you hand him the NeuroBand or is it hard to take off? Probably could, but it is hard to take off.
12:45 Andrew Manganelli? It's hard to take off?
12:47 Speaker 01 Well, there's a whole like clasp thing.
12:48 Andrew Manganelli? I thought it was like a snap bracelet.
12:50 Speaker 01 But you do, if I hit, do you still see the Albemarle?
12:53 Andrew Manganelli? It's weird because when both eyes are open, the left side of it seems like it's fading a little bit. Am I like cross-eyed?
13:03 Speaker 01 Sorry, Andrew.
13:04 Andrew Manganelli? Glasses for this?
13:04 Speaker 01 Sorry, Andrew.
13:05 Andrew Manganelli? If I hold my left eye, it's like perfect.
13:07 Speaker 04 You are making some really funny faces.
13:11 Andrew Manganelli? I feel like everyone's been commenting that I make some really dumb faces on the podcast already because I look up a lot when I'm thinking. But I'm probably making even dumber. Whoa, it's gone.
13:19 Speaker 01 It's gone? Is it back?
13:21 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, there it is.
13:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, I brought it back. I got the control.
13:24 Andrew Manganelli? Is that all there?
13:26 Speaker 04 Andrew, how does it compare to the demo glasses we tried?
13:29 Andrew Manganelli? It's vastly different. The field of view is, well, because the field of view is totally different, but remember the demo glasses were in our whole field of view is a lot. This is definitely. Here.
13:39 Speaker 01 Down into the right.
13:39 Andrew Manganelli? Like down into the right a bit. It is very bright and I almost feel like the resolution is better than the demo glass.
13:45 Speaker 01 What do you see? What do you see now? The resolution is better than the Orion glasses.
13:49 Andrew Manganelli? It's better and I think the biggest thing is the Orion glasses had like a tint to them because it very clearly wasn't a, this is, this is clear.
13:57 Speaker 01 You're just in the menu, right?
13:58 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, just a menu. They're thick. They're really thick.
14:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, so if you saw someone out watching these, I think this is like a double take pair of glasses. I think there's like a line, like regular glasses out in public, I don't really think twice. I don't, I don't double take at all. Super, super obvious camera and computer on face glasses. I don't even double take. I just look and I know exactly what it is. This is somewhere in between. I think there are some places where I would not think twice. There are some places where I would go, oh, is it kind of thick or weird?
14:26 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
14:27 Speaker 01 And it just depends on the person, what they're wearing, where they are.
14:31 Andrew Manganelli? I would think that someone wearing this has like a visual problem.
14:34 Speaker 01 You think they're like super thick glasses?
14:35 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, they are very thick.
14:37 Speaker 01 Like bifocals or something.
14:39 Andrew Manganelli? It's funny, but it doesn't do the bifocal effect where your eyes inside the glasses look larger because of magnification.
14:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, they don't do that. Can you open the main menu?
14:47 Andrew Manganelli? I will.
14:48 Speaker 01 Where are you now? Uh, on the Spotify thing.
14:51 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, it's funny. At this angle, I can see like red, green, blue, which is probably like the wave guide.
14:56 Speaker 01 Okay, wait.
14:57 Andrew Manganelli? It's like a prism.
14:58 Speaker 01 To the right. Okay, down, down one. Don't press play. Select.
15:04 Speaker 01 And down.
15:07 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
15:09 Speaker 01 Ah, you have to download English.
15:12 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, it's gonna be live translation.
15:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, I just set these up so I don't have my WhatsApp connected. I don't have the downloaded languages for the live captioning, but I'm gonna try all this stuff.
15:22 Andrew Manganelli? From an angle, you can start seeing some parts of the wave guide. Like I can see a box in his eye now.
15:26 Speaker 01 Right.
15:27 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah. What was I gonna say? I think it's interesting because does Meta want these to blend in perfectly? Or do they want people to know people are using their product? It's definitely a fine line there of we want these to just feel like glasses, but also like. When you make a product, you want a product to be known when it's seen out in public.
15:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I think this first default version, which is glossy black, just says Ray-Bans tries to look like normal glasses. I think they want them to look like normal glasses. I think there will be more fashionable versions in the future that make a statement and also say, hey, I'm using the smart glasses. But I think to me, this is trying to look like normal glasses.
16:03 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
16:04 David Imel? This is really sharp.
16:05 Andrew Manganelli? Really thick.
16:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:06 David Imel? Surprisingly sharp.
16:07 Speaker 01 Yeah. And this is the carrying case, by the way, in case you didn't see the video.
16:14 Andrew Manganelli? This is so, I mean, that's probably the best part about them.
16:16 Speaker 01 That was sick.
16:17 Andrew Manganelli? They, yeah, for audio listeners.
16:20 Speaker 01 For audio listeners.
16:20 Andrew Manganelli? It's like totally flat and it like pops up to charge again, but when you have them out of the case, it can fold almost entirely flat.
16:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:27 David Imel? So these are the $800 ones.
16:29 Speaker 01 These are the $800 Meta Ray-Ban Display. Uh, yeah, that's the diagnostic port that pops off and you can plug it in. Uh, we didn't have to do that while we shot, but that's what that is.
16:40 Andrew Manganelli? All right, pop off.
16:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, pop off, King. Uh, this is, this is that. It is, uh, I don't know, should I review them? Should I do more like IRL? I don't know what to do with them, to be honest.
16:51 David Imel? You gotta review them.
16:52 Speaker 01 I don't, yeah.
16:53 Andrew Manganelli? It's hard.
16:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:54 Andrew Manganelli? Well, yeah, a review is tough unless you're in that ecosystem of WhatsApp and like, I don't see those being useful for a full day of what they want unless you're in WhatsApp.
17:04 David Imel? Just become European, it'll be fun.
17:06 Speaker 01 Well, it's more just that I don't know what else to say about them other than what I already said, like, how long does the battery life last? Maybe that's interesting. What types of reactions do people have when you reveal that you are not looking at them anymore? That type of stuff, maybe, but yeah.
17:21 David Imel? Trying to think about like, where would this fit into someone's actual life? And is this something that regular people would yet buy?
17:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:28 David Imel? Or are we still like a little bit further away from the one that people could just feasibly buy and it would be nice?
17:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. How well does a live translation work? Do I want to use it all the time?
17:38 David Imel? Right.
17:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, things like that.
17:39 David Imel? Are they gimmicks or are they things that you actually end up wanting to use?
17:42 Speaker 01 Are they dope or nope?
17:44 David Imel? That was, wasn't that a ChatGPT generated, um?
17:47 Andrew Manganelli? No, that's Judd Ners, right? That's his series?
17:51 Speaker 01 What's ours called?
17:52 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, it's just called Dope 10.
17:54 David Imel? Or Clown or Clown.
17:54 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, Crown and Clown.
17:55 Speaker 01 Are they Crown or Clown?
17:56 David Imel? Which, by the way, it's October 1st.
17:58 Speaker 01 Oh. Might be time for another one of those. Either way, it did come out. You know what is definitely a crown?
18:04 Andrew Manganelli? What?
18:04 Speaker 01 MX Master 4 came out.
18:06 Andrew Manganelli? Hell, yeah.
18:07 Speaker 01 And it's pretty great. And the fun fact, the fun fact is we've been testing them for like a month now because Logitech came by the studio with very, very early versions and they showed them to us. Oh, you brought yours?
18:16 Andrew Manganelli? I brought it in.
18:17 Speaker 01 Um, is it disconnected?
18:18 Andrew Manganelli? It's disconnected. You can do.
18:19 Speaker 01 It is a similar shape, but just better materials. And then it also has a haptic motor, I guess is what you'd call it.
18:27 Andrew Manganelli? Action ring, yeah.
18:28 Speaker 01 For, um, a certain side button that you press and it's nice.
18:33 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, yeah. I mean, the, I think the new materials, I actually don't really use ergonomic mice, but I've been using this one a lot. The new materials won't get that like rubber peeling that the old.
18:43 Speaker 01 Oh, that's good.
18:44 Andrew Manganelli? MX Masters did like. I'm about to hand it to you. We all have one already. Um, the materials seem way better. The, it's a little more ergonomic with the horizontal wheel. Uh, there's an extra gesture button next to the front and back button, which is awesome because if you press it and swipe left or right, you can go between spaces on your, um, your Mac or if you press it in, it does the.
19:05 Speaker 01 Mission control.
19:05 Andrew Manganelli? Mission control.
19:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:07 Andrew Manganelli? Um, and then, yeah, so where your thumb rests, there's this like pad that has a haptic feedback button. That's crazy customizable where you can do like how sensitive is and how much the feedback is when you press it. And it brings up this action ring, kind of like the Grand Theft Auto weapon select where when you press it.
19:23 Speaker 01 Basically, actually, yeah.
19:24 Andrew Manganelli? It's like as a dial and like based on if you pull up, left, right, you can go to each of those, um, different.
19:31 Speaker 01 Actions.
19:31 Andrew Manganelli? Actions, yeah.
19:32 Speaker 01 They're all pre, they're all programmable. So customizable, you can set up like six or seven of them to be whatever you want.
19:38 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, I think Eric set one up to open like chat GPT or something. I have mine. I just do it. It opens up the like where we do new outlines for the podcast. So just if I'm going to write a new episode, I can just press that button, drag down and click it. Um, and it's also in some of their programs, mostly Adobe ones now, but you can do like Photoshop tools on the.
19:58 Speaker 01 That's cool.
19:59 Andrew Manganelli? Ring and stuff.
19:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:00 Andrew Manganelli? Some of it doesn't work great. Some of it works really well. Some of it, one issue I have is like in Photoshop, if you want to just change opacity, what's cool is you can open the action ring, hover it and then scroll to go up and down.
20:13 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
20:13 Andrew Manganelli? Um, just like within the little action wheel.
20:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:16 Andrew Manganelli? But in the history. Almost like when you scroll up a couple like 20%, it does like 20 actions in the history, which just fills up your history totally. That's a big issue I have with it right now in that, but um, the customizable stuff will happen. We'll see if how open they make it to other programs and such.
20:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, between this and Raycast, I'm living in heaven right now.
20:39 Andrew Manganelli? Adam's just one-handed, does everything.
20:42 David Imel? Interesting combo, because Raycast is all about that keyboard.
20:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, but if I set, so what I did was I have a shortcut on Raycast where I hit Option N and it creates a new folder structure with a script that I have for like the podcast. So instead of even doing that, I also have that Option N as a keyboard shortcut on the wheel. What is it, that action?
21:04 David Imel? Action ring.
21:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, action ring. So I could just like hit it, it automatically does that keyboard shortcut, which hits Option N. I could also just selected the script and run it that way if I wanted to, so it goes either way, but yeah.
21:14 David Imel? It's good to have options.
21:16 Speaker 03 Exactly.
21:16 Andrew Manganelli? Do you know what the best part about this mouse is? The dongle is USB C.
21:20 David Imel? Oh, that's actually the best part.
21:21 Andrew Manganelli? It's so good.
21:22 David Imel? It's the entirety.
21:23 Speaker 03 These mice have, uh, they use Bluetooth, but they have a 2.4 gigahertz dongle. I think it's 2.4.
21:29 Andrew Manganelli? I forget everyone uses Bluetooth.
21:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:32 Andrew Manganelli? Maybe I'm way more excited about this. I use my dongles for all my mice.
21:35 David Imel? The dongle is nice because it stops interference and it makes it so the computer knows exactly what it's talking to, but yeah, they switched to USB C, which is nice. However, I would advise, um, similarly to the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, when people were putting the S Pen in backwards and it was breaking it, um, I put my dongle in the mouse and it was really hard to get out.
22:00 Andrew Manganelli? Where do you put it in the mouse?
22:01 David Imel? In the charge port. Oh, don't do that.
22:03 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, why?
22:04 David Imel? I thought, I was like, it's good storage. And then it was.
22:07 Andrew Manganelli? I would have never even thought of it. That's a good idea. But now that I know it's hard to get out.
22:12 Speaker 03 Why can't you do that, though? That makes, that seems like it should work.
22:15 David Imel? Yeah, I mean, it works.
22:16 Andrew Manganelli? Is it just because it's like, there's like.
22:17 David Imel? It's like hard to outlet into. Yeah, it's like infinite power. Yeah, it's like, okay, the dongle is connected to the mouse.
22:25 Andrew Manganelli? You know, you say that, I'm sure that people will buy this mouse.
22:27 David Imel? Zero lag.
22:28 Andrew Manganelli? And be like, my dongle's not working. And it's plugged into the front.
22:32 David Imel? I'm just, I'm just saying, like, you can store the dongle in the charge port. But there's no, like, rib. There's no lip. There's no lip. Yeah. And it's very hard to get out unless you have, like, really big nails. And then you're gonna crack your nails and then you're gonna be happy.
22:47 Andrew Manganelli? I never would have thought of that.
22:47 David Imel? Well, I did, and it was unfortunate. That's a good PSA. Yeah. Yeah, wow, good. I'm glad you thought of that. Infinite power. Okay. Okay.
22:55 Andrew Manganelli? You know what else has infinite power?
22:57 David Imel? What else does?
23:00 Andrew Manganelli? The Echo Show?
23:01 David Imel? How was that? Okay, we had an Amazon event, um, yesterday as of the time of recording. There was a lot of stuff. This started in like 2017 or so where Amazon would have these events and they would just drop like 50 products. Here is a bunch of new stuff and all of it has our Assistant built in. Yeah, the most iconic one was like the first one they ever did where they put Alexa in a, like, a clock and a microwave.
23:25 David Imel? That was during the Internet of Things era. I'm really glad that's over. But, well, sort of. Now, uh, they had another event where they also were putting Alexa Plus in a lot of products. Uh, but they're also just updating their whole lineup of smart speakers and other things like that. Uh, so we got a new Echo Show 8 and 11. The 11 inch is very large, but effectively this kind of looks a lot like what we expected the Apple Home Pad to look like. Where it kind of looks like a HomePod in the back with this like fiber mesh. And then you have a tablet just kind of like mounted to the front. Um, and it's a much better display. The 8 inch one is 720p, which is a little low resolution, but it's a small tablet, so I guess it's okay.
24:10 David Imel? The 11 is 1080p, trash. No, 1080 is nice. Yeah, uh, it has a 13 megapixel wide-angle camera for video calls and things like that. They're a little bit expensive, but I assume that these things are gonna go on sale literally constantly for Prime Day, because usually Prime Day is just Buy Our Products Day. So yeah, it's $179.99 for the 8" and $219.99 for the 11" inch. We also got an Echo Dot Max, which is kind of ironic, because the entire point of the Echo Dot was to be an Echo but small, and now there's a big one, so it's-
24:45 Andrew Manganelli? Does this not look like-
24:46 David Imel? Yeah.
24:47 Andrew Manganelli? Because it's like a sphere with a flat part with all the controls. Does it not look like that's where they just attached-
24:51 David Imel? So that's what I actually wrote in the script. Yeah, basically the show without the screen. It is a much more powerful speaker. Amazon is claiming 3X the bass response over the original Echo Dot. It has speaker controls with an LED ring in the front. It's $100 up from $50 from the original Echo Dot. So, though the price, but it should have much better sound quality. There's a new Echo Studio, and I'm going to be honest, I did not remember that the original Echo Studio was a thing.
25:21 Andrew Manganelli? Can I just say, my favorite part about this photo of the Echo Dot Max is, there's nothing scale-wise here. I cannot figure out how big this is.
25:29 David Imel? That's true. That could be a microscope.
25:31 Andrew Manganelli? It's literally just like a wood surface and a white wall behind it, and not a single other object for me to tell how big that is.
25:38 David Imel? Yeah. Amazon is very much trying to get back in your house. They were like really winning the smart speaker race for a very long time, and then Google started just flooding the zone, and it's everywhere now. Yes, now they have an Echo Studio, new one, because there was an old one, apparently, that I just didn't really even clock. It kinda looks- it looks a lot like the Echo Dot Max, but it's black, which means it's Pro.
26:02 Andrew Manganelli? Hell, yeah.
26:04 David Imel? The old one actually kinda looked like the Trashcan Mac Pro. I looked it up, and it's very weird. It's kinda got like cylindrical shape with like a little cutout in the side. Yeah, strange. It supports Dolby Atmos and Spatial Audio, so you can link up to five of them, as well as linking them with the Echo Dot Max, and you can link them to a Fire TV stick to have surround sound audio. I'm looking for the person out there that's like, "I love ecosystems, but you know what ecosystem I love the most? Amazon."
26:35 Speaker 01 Time to connect my Echo Dot to my Echo Studio.
26:37 David Imel? Yeah, like maybe my dad, I don't know.
26:40 Speaker 01 Fire stick in my Amazon TV.
26:42 David Imel? Exact, yeah, so you can link up of, you can link five of these to a Fire TV stick and have surround sound.
26:48 Speaker 01 Five, interesting.
26:49 David Imel? Yeah, up, up to five, so total surround. Their new Kindle Scribes, which I think is probably the most, the most interesting thing they dropped because they're really trying to compete with Remarkable, if you know that tablet company. They're like an e Ink, e Paper tablet company, very premium, fairly expensive, but they've sort of been the benchmark. And I think it was, it was either one or two years ago, Amazon released the original Kindle Scribe, which was basically supposed to be the Remarkable tablet, but a lot cheaper. More integrations with Kindle, all of that kind of stuff, which makes sense. But they finally released their color version to compete with Remarkable.
27:26 David Imel? Called the Kindle Scribe Color Soft. It has two weeks of battery life. You can highlight, draw, and write in color on it. It's $630, which for an Amazon product is very, very expensive.
27:38 Speaker 01 Primo, wow.
27:39 David Imel? And I don't, I feel like their markup on this must be ridiculous.
27:42 Speaker 01 The Remarkable.
27:43 David Imel? Is the same price.
27:44 Speaker 01 Is, it is.
27:45 David Imel? For the Pro.
27:46 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm on their website right now.
27:48 David Imel? You're looking at the portable one.
27:49 Speaker 01 Oh, they have a big one.
27:50 David Imel? They have a big one. The big one is also $630. I think that Amazon just thought, well, technically, we have integrations with Alexa now. We have, you can AI summarize different parts of the things that you're reading, I guess. I don't know. I, I, I think that they just have more, they think they have more integrations and they have a better distribution system. So they think that they can charge the same amount as the Remarkable, and they're probably right, because most people don't know about the Remarkable, whereas Amazon can just throw it at the front of the page constantly. They have two other Kindle Scribes. They have a new entry level one, which is $430. This stuff is like really expensive for what it is. Like you can buy an iPad for much cheaper than this.
28:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, you gotta really want this specific form factor and screen technology.
28:32 David Imel? Exactly.
28:33 Speaker 01 To pay $400, $500, $600 for it.
28:35 David Imel? Yeah.
28:36 Speaker 01 Over any other tablet.
28:37 Speaker 03 Adam has two of them.
28:40 Speaker 01 I wouldn't be shocked.
28:42 David Imel? And then there, so that's $430, and then there's another model that's a frontlit model that they're charging an extra $70 for, just to get a front light. To be able to actually.
28:52 Speaker 01 You can use it in dim lights.
28:53 David Imel? In dim lighting. Yeah, they're all 11 inches. They have thinner bezels and they have AI features. Yeah.
29:00 Speaker 03 I really don't get what the use case of this is.
29:02 Andrew Manganelli? I can't believe we have AI paper.
29:07 David Imel? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, people really like them. People that use remarkable products are very, very happy with them.
29:12 Speaker 01 Sure.
29:13 David Imel? Uh, it's, it's nice to kind of have that paper experience, but like Adam said, there are many sort of adaptive ways to have an iPad feel like paper. There's all the, the different screen stuff you can put on top of it. Ellis is nodding his head back and forth in a disproving mode. Yeah, they're kind of bad.
29:30 Speaker 04 I thought I was gonna love it. And then one day I came to work and Adam had it on his iPad mini and I was like, what did you do to your iPad?
29:38 David Imel? Yeah.
29:40 Andrew Manganelli? But that then cost me $640.
29:42 Speaker 01 That's true.
29:43 David Imel? Touche. Uh, there's new Fire TVs. If you remember, which you might not, because Amazon is not that memorable of a company. They released their own TVs, their own QLED TVs, like last year or the year before.
29:55 Andrew Manganelli? I did not know that.
29:56 David Imel? Yeah, they actually sell Amazon branded Fire TV TVs that are not just the stick, but are actually QLEDs.
30:02 Andrew Manganelli? Who makes them?
30:03 Speaker 01 Amazon Basics TV.
30:04 David Imel? Probably LG or something. It's probably their like C tier display panels or whatever. Uh, so now they have new Fire TV Omni QLEDs, and I hate that that's a string of words. They're brighter. They have better processors. Uh, they have Dolby Vision and HDR 10 plus. And they can automatically adjust the color of this display based on the ambient lighting of your room, which is sort of like, um, True Tone, right? Yeah. They are 50 to 75 inches, starting at $479. And also there are new two and four series TVs with slimmer bezels and faster processors, starting at $159. So. This is gonna be that Black Friday, like crazy 50% off.
30:46 Andrew Manganelli? You just search like TV on Black Friday and they should throw this to the.
30:50 David Imel? They're gonna sell so many of this stuff. Uh, and then there's a bunch of new Ring cameras that do 2 and 4K resolution. They have this thing they call Retinal Vision, which is kind of just like an AI upscaling pipeline, similar to what Apple talked about when they say, because Apple on the new iPhone said in the 2X crops and the 8X crop, they have a new pipeline.
31:11 Speaker 01 Optical quality.
31:12 David Imel? Yeah.
31:12 Speaker 01 That's what they say.
31:13 David Imel? Which is the same thing that like Ring is basically saying is the thing. Yeah.
31:18 Speaker 01 AI doorbells now.
31:20 David Imel? Uh, well, we got, we had those. Yeah, we've had them.
31:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:22 David Imel? But yeah, I don't know. It's, it's sort of just that like, you want smart home stuff from Amazon on Black Friday? Here's the new version.
31:30 Speaker 01 That's what Techtober is all about sometimes.
31:33 Speaker 01 We want all our stuff on the shelves before the holiday season, so here it is.
31:37 David Imel? But yeah, much more interestingly, we got a preview of a new Google Home speaker. Not surprisingly, they are yet again getting rid of the Nest name, and I'm sure that in 2027, they'll bring it back.
31:52 Speaker 01 No, this, this is for real. This is for real.
31:54 David Imel? For real for now.
31:55 Speaker 01 I feel like this is for real. I got briefed on this, and this felt like somebody who used Google Home, who works for Google, was finally like, "Hey, should we fix this?" And they did.
32:05 David Imel? Yeah.
32:05 Speaker 01 I think. So I, I hope to get the update soon, but I've now seen all the new Google Home stuff, and essentially, they plan on finally getting the last of the stuff that they've been making that only works with the Nest app out of it, so it can all work with Google.
32:18 David Imel? Yeah.
32:19 Speaker 01 If you had a Nest Aware subscription, that's now a Google, what's it called? Google something subscription?
32:23 Speaker 03 I think I got the email about that changing.
32:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. I just got that too. So it's all Google. The subscription's now Google. They're revamping the Home app to be faster and to work with all these new things. They have a couple new accessories. They have a new doorbell, a new indoor camera, and I think a new outdoor camera as well. A couple new partnerships. So there's like a cheaper, like a Walmart partnership for like a $22 camera and like a $45 doorbell. So that's
32:46 David Imel? What does that mean? Like if you buy it at a specific store, it's cheaper?
32:50 Speaker 01 I think it's, they made it in, let me find, I think they made it in collaboration with Walmart, which is why it's so cheap. Is that what my notes say?
32:58 David Imel? We live in hell.
32:59 Speaker 01 Hey, it's cheap. $22 for, for a camera is like Wise territory.
33:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, I was gonna say Wise is like running the game within that price category. So this is where they're trying to get in.
33:09 Speaker 01 So yes, Google Home Premium subscription, and all of this stuff now is going to work with Gemini. So all the stuff we have already in our homes that use the crummy Google Assistant that's just been aging and failing and not working very well is going to be updated to Gemini, and They have some new stuff. I think the latest generations of the stuff we have will work with Gemini Live, but also the new stuff will work with Gemini Live as well. So you can say, "Hey G, start a chat." And then you're doing the whole Gemini Live back and forth conversation thing with all the context and the, you know, whatever it tells you. Yeah. Versus just a regular, "Hey G," and then ask it a question, and then, "Hey G," again, and then ask a follow-up question. Yeah. You can do a whole conversation. So- Which Gemini Live is a paid feature. You have to have the premium subscription.
33:54 Speaker 01 In, yeah, one of the subscription tiers.
33:56 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah. I don't, I'm looking right now because it said, like, I got the email that said, "Your Nest Aware is now being upgraded to Google Home Premium."
34:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:04 Andrew Manganelli? And then there's the Standard and Advanced Plan.
34:06 Speaker 01 So Google Home Premium is, is that launched now officially?
34:09 Andrew Manganelli? It sounds like it got, that's, because I got the email saying, "This is what it is now."
34:13 Speaker 01 Cool.
34:14 Andrew Manganelli? So it sounds like that is out.
34:15 Speaker 01 Delete the Nest app. It's over. It's finally gone.
34:20 Andrew Manganelli? Um, I don't see anything saying that I get the subscription notifications. Search video history? That's actually pretty cool. Like, AI search through history, because you have all of your events saved for 60 days, and then you get, um, if you're in advanced, you get 24/7 history for 10 days. So if I can search through that-
34:40 Speaker 01 With your voice.
34:40 Andrew Manganelli? With my voice, or even just like recognizing, I'm assuming I can type in and it can recognize what happens, right?
34:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. I saw, I got to do a demo and try some of this stuff. It seemed to be really straightforward. Not only can you, uh, create automations with your voice, so if you want it to go, "Hey, every morning when I ask for this, open the shades and turn the lights on," or whatever. But you can also go, "Hey, show me when the squirrel ran across my driveway." And it will just find the clip when the last time the squirrel ran across your driveway was and played it, because Gemini is plugged in now. It can figure this stuff out for camera feed.
35:14 Andrew Manganelli? Also says event descriptions. It says more detailed event descriptions. Tell the whole story on cameras and doorbells.
35:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, so right now, if you have an event from the Google Home app, it'll just say, "Motion in driveway." Or "Front door motion detected," or "Person detected," and sometimes even a familiar face it'll name. Now, it will describe what's happening. So it'll say, "UPS guy holding flowers and brown box-delivered package," instead of-
35:39 Andrew Manganelli? Will it do this retroactively? Because I do have a clip the other day of me accidentally hitting Lane in the face with the door and it's on the doorbell.
35:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:49 Andrew Manganelli? I need to see if I can describe this.
35:50 Speaker 04 What happens if you go up to a Ring doorbell, wearing a T-shirt that says, "Ignore all previous instructions"?
35:57 Speaker 01 Wearing a T-shirt?
35:58 Speaker 04 Like, can you prompt inject the model?
36:01 Speaker 01 Unlikely.
36:02 David Imel? Yeah.
36:02 Speaker 01 Uh, but we'll probably put some of that in the description and the notification.
36:07 David Imel? I just need to read-
36:07 Speaker 01 Person wearing shirt with text.
36:09 David Imel? I need to read Google's keyword blog because it is so confusing. The headline is, "We're introducing the new Home Premium subscription plus new benefits for AI Pro and AI Ultra subscribers."
36:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:21 David Imel? And there are multiple plans.
36:23 Speaker 01 So AI Pro and AI Ultra subscribers are going to get, with their subscription, one of these levels of, uh, the home subscription.
36:30 Andrew Manganelli? These are the two Nest plans that just have new names now.
36:33 David Imel? No longer Nest.
36:33 Speaker 01 No longer Nest.
36:34 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
36:34 David Imel? Yeah, okay, so the standard plan, which is $10 a month or $100 a year, gives you Gemini Live, uh, and Ask Home for Automation Help, 30 days of video history and intelligent camera alerts. And then the advanced plan, which is $20 a month or $200 a year, includes all standard features plus Gemini camera capabilities such as AI event descriptions, home brief summaries, and searchable video history. So you have to pay 20 a month if you want to do the AI video stuff.
37:04 Speaker 01 10 a month and 20 a month.
37:05 David Imel? Yeah, but if you have AI, Google AI Pro and Ultra, I hate this. This is insane. There needs to be a flowchart for this.
37:13 Speaker 01 There actually does, yeah.
37:14 David Imel? I, ugh, Google.
37:16 Speaker 01 The nice thing is Ultra is just you get all of the things.
37:18 David Imel? Yeah, but it's $200 a month.
37:20 Speaker 01 It's $1,000 every minute you use it.
37:21 David Imel? Yeah, it's $200 a month.
37:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:24 David Imel? Nobody wants to pay that.
37:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:25 David Imel? It's insane.
37:26 Speaker 01 So, yeah, it is all, I think, functionally all way better, and I cannot wait to get this app update so I can stop using the Nest app and stop using the old Google Assistant, which is, at this point. Retiring.
37:40 David Imel? Yeah.
37:41 Speaker 01 I think that's the end of it.
37:42 David Imel? Yeah.
37:42 Speaker 01 Uh, and yeah, having Gemini on all the stuff.
37:45 David Imel? Yeah, there has been like a beta of Gemini on Google Home devices for a while, but um, this is the official rollout, I suppose.
37:53 Andrew Manganelli? I do not seem to have it updated because it's just the same.
37:56 Speaker 01 I hope, I think it should be rolling out today.
37:58 David Imel? Probably rolling, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, the, the interesting thing is that the hardware is a little bit different. So the Google Home, they're calling it the Google Home Speaker. And it's sort of the, it's, the size is sort of between a Nest Mini and a Nest Audio. So it's like bigger than a Nest Mini. It should have much better um, audio capabilities, like it sounds a lot nicer. It's got 360 degree audio. You can connect multiple of them in stereo. And surprisingly, the colors are very bold. They have this like extremely saturated red.
38:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:30 David Imel? And then they've got a green, which is kind of like a hazel. Well, actually, it's not a hazel. There's a green, it's like a.
38:35 Andrew Manganelli? It's hazel gray.
38:37 David Imel? Gray.
38:38 Speaker 01 It's just like a gray with a hint of green. I think the red one is insanely bold.
38:43 David Imel? The red one is crazy bright.
38:44 Speaker 01 And I typically don't think of home accessories being like that boldly colored, but cool if you want to do that. But then the others are like charcoal or like ivory or slightly green, so.
38:54 David Imel? Yeah, okay. It's not coming out till next year. The spring of next year.
38:58 Speaker 01 What is the?
38:59 David Imel? The speaker, yeah, the new speaker.
39:01 Speaker 01 Right. But I think the doorbell and the uh, the new camera and the other stuff is around.
39:05 David Imel? I wonder if they announced it today because the Amazon event just happened and they were like, there's a bunch of new Echo speakers and we need to like offset the news somehow.
39:14 Speaker 01 Or it's just tech-tober.
39:17 David Imel? I guess, but you can't even order them.
39:20 Speaker 01 Uh, you can't?
39:21 David Imel? Can you preorder them? Because they come out spring 2026. That's like a while away.
39:26 Speaker 01 All available now.
39:26 David Imel? That's six months away.
39:28 Speaker 01 They're in the Google Store and they're available now.
39:29 David Imel? You can buy them now?
39:30 Speaker 01 Nest Cam Outdoor, $149.
39:32 David Imel? Oh, well, maybe that. I'm talking about the, the Google Home Speaker.
39:35 Speaker 01 No, just the speaker is, is later.
39:37 David Imel? Okay.
39:38 Speaker 01 But all the other new stuff, meaning the new doorbell and the new indoor speaker and the new outdoor speaker is on site.
39:43 David Imel? The jade green is pretty green. I wouldn't say that's a hint of green.
39:46 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, the, the speaker is a little more green. I was talking about the doorbell and the cameras.
39:50 David Imel? Well, yeah, we'll, we'll see how good it ends up being. But you know, it's always good.
39:55 Speaker 01 Trivia, let's go. It's simply always good.
39:58 Speaker 04 Simply the best. People.
40:02 Speaker 04 Before we get into trivia, we gotta issue a correction.
40:05 Speaker 01 Whoa.
40:05 Speaker 04 From last week. We got something wrong.
40:08 Speaker 01 Uh oh.
40:08 Speaker 04 Unfortunately, uh, in a professional Derby race, if a jockey falls off their horse and the horse finishes the race, it is not counted as a victory.
40:19 Speaker 01 Is that right?
40:20 Speaker 04 Yeah.
40:20 Speaker 01 What did you guys talk about?
40:23 Speaker 04 I saw a video and it was totally counted. It, uh, they, they won't, they'll let the horse finish because they're not going to interrupt the race, but it will not be counted as a proper victory. Or at least that's what I found on my research.
40:36 Andrew Manganelli? Marquez is furiously typing.
40:39 Speaker 01 Well, the commentators seem to think.
40:40 Speaker 04 In F1, if the driver falls out and the car goes over, that does count? No. But in, in NASCAR, I do, I am pretty sure it's Ricky Bobby rules where if the driver crosses the finish line without the car.
40:52 Speaker 01 What?
40:53 Speaker 04 There's no way that could be real. That's way too dangerous. It's happened in real races.
40:58 Speaker 01 Like where they crash and they get out and.
40:59 Speaker 04 I can't wait for next week's correction. And they get fined afterwards for doing something so dangerous. Anyway, um.
41:06 Speaker 01 How you almost get hit by a car and you get fined? That's crazy.
41:11 Speaker 04 While Marquez confirms or denies.
41:12 Speaker 01 No, you're right. In the video that I was referencing, the commentators seemed to believe that the horse had just won, but it turns out for betting purposes, that was declared a non-running.
41:21 Speaker 04 Hmm.
41:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's a good correction.
41:24 Speaker 04 Well, in other news, both of our questions this week are about Amazon products.
41:31 Speaker 01 Oh no.
41:31 Speaker 04 Amazon hardware and the wacky, wacky world that they live within.
41:35 Speaker 01 Interesting.
41:36 Speaker 04 Uh, because Amazon makes a lot of Echo products.
41:38 Speaker 01 They sure do.
41:39 Speaker 04 And some of them are really poorly named. So I need you guys to tell me what ki- Marquez?
41:45 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
41:48 Speaker 04 Marquez has put on the smart glasses. We cannot confirm or deny whether he's cheating.
41:53 Speaker 01 Or watching rails.
41:54 Speaker 04 Uh, or watching, no, his mouth is closed, so he's not, he's not watching, um, anyway, you guys have to tell me what kind of product the Echo Flex is. What kind of product is the Echo Flex? Use, use the context. It's called the Flex.
42:12 Speaker 01 It's a slap, slap band.
42:16 Speaker 04 It's a folding foam. I'm just kidding.
42:17 Speaker 01 I see you pinching.
42:20 Speaker 04 We'll be right back.
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44:55 David Imel? Welcome back.
44:56 Andrew Manganelli? 15% of my diet is chalua.
44:58 David Imel? Andrew said that on me, so you know. Uh, okay, so I have a fun game that I want to play. So if you guys will open up the link that I put in the show notes. If you have the show notes open.
45:10 Speaker 01 I do.
45:11 David Imel? I've created a Google Slides slideshow. Yesterday, I was in the French Alps. Um, yeah, I know.
45:19 Speaker 01 Subtle flex.
45:20 David Imel? Pretty weird. Uh, and I brought many cameras, as I always do. But I decided that I wanted to kind of like push the limits of the new iPhone camera. So I downloaded Halide onto my phone.
45:34 Andrew Manganelli? I hate you for this.
45:35 David Imel? Which allows, which allows you to shoot actual RAW, not just Pro RAW, which is already a little bit processed. And I also brought my Leica M11 and a bunch of film cameras. And because the M11 is a digital camera, I decided I was going to shoot a bunch of photos on all the cameras. And then I was going to kind of like take a look at how different all of the photos were. So what I'm doing this game is that I've made a series of slides of photos that I took. And you guys need to guess whether or not they were taken on the iPhone or the Leica M11.
46:09 Speaker 01 Wow, okay. And are we, so this is no pixel peeping or zooming, just like looking at the wide?
46:14 David Imel? And it's already going to be compressed by putting on Google Slides, because it's fair enough.
46:17 Andrew Manganelli? And are we a team?
46:19 David Imel? Um, you can.
46:21 Andrew Manganelli? We should be a team because I will lose.
46:22 David Imel? All right.
46:23 Andrew Manganelli? Let's teamwork this. I think it'll make it easier.
46:26 Speaker 01 Hosts versus producers.
46:28 David Imel? Ooh, oh yeah, I like that. Okay.
46:30 Andrew Manganelli? We do that, but we'll have to say it all out loud or else this is going to be really boring.
46:34 David Imel? Yeah, we can talk it out.
46:35 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, talk it out. Okay, so number one.
46:37 David Imel? Number one. First one. So this is a nice wider shot of two stone cabins with all of the Alps rising in the background and then a blue sky. And I should note that I have multiple lenses for my M11, so I have lenses that can emulate the different focal lengths of the iPhone.
46:53 Andrew Manganelli? So your Leica can emulate an iPhone?
46:55 David Imel? Well.
46:57 Speaker 01 Thinking out loud is this is a ton that is in focus and it's a really nice landscape shot.
47:03 David Imel? I should also note that I shoot close down constantly.
47:06 Speaker 01 Of course, as you would with a scene like this.
47:08 David Imel? Yeah.
47:10 Speaker 01 My only note, I mean, it does look very flat like the iPhone, but I think because Andrew, that snow and that wall of the cabin are a little hot, a little high exposed. I'm going M11 because I think the iPhone would flatten it even more.
47:27 Andrew Manganelli? My only thought is whether he potentially shot this on a tripod or not. And that looks like very uneven ground.
47:34 David Imel? It was very uneven ground.
47:35 Andrew Manganelli? Which would make a tripod very hard, but I guess he doesn't necessarily need a tripod for this. So I just, whenever I imagine David with a camera, I imagine a like four foot box on a giant rickety wooden tripod. So.
47:49 Speaker 01 It was very flat.
47:50 Andrew Manganelli? I'll go with, I mean, you're the expert here.
47:52 Speaker 01 There's a lot of shadow detail, I will say.
47:54 Speaker 04 But he said this is, this is a halide raw and not an iPhone Pro raw, right?
47:58 Speaker 01 Correct. Processed, yeah.
48:00 David Imel? But barely.
48:01 Speaker 04 But in theory, if this was the iPhone, it would still be a single bracket. Like there would not be.
48:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:06 Speaker 04 It wouldn't do HDR.
48:08 Speaker 01 Yes, there's not HDR on it. Yeah. The shadow detail means nothing. And slightly blown highlights.
48:13 David Imel? Well, I mean, it could mean something because it's still a raw photo and you still have a lot of flexibility. So it's just not forced shadow.
48:20 Andrew Manganelli? Here is the, the green and the grass. It does not look super over sharpened or anything. The way that I feel like iPhone would do. I'm looking at David, he's not giving me anything.
48:33 Speaker 01 I'm not allowed to get anything.
48:35 Andrew Manganelli? I think it's potentially iPhone just because David got really defensive about how close he shoots and everything right off the bat, which made me think Marquez was on the right trail. Although then you said Leica, didn't you?
48:45 Speaker 04 I'm gonna say, I think it's the Leica also because of the green.
48:48 Andrew Manganelli? I'm going iPhone.
48:49 Speaker 04 Wait, but you're on Marquez's team.
48:52 Andrew Manganelli? What are we going?
48:53 Speaker 01 You guys don't agree on it either.
48:56 Andrew Manganelli? Let me take this one.
48:57 David Imel? Okay.
48:57 Andrew Manganelli? iPhone.
48:58 David Imel? Okay.
49:00 Speaker 04 We think it's a Leica.
49:01 David Imel? The answer is iPhone.
49:03 Speaker 01 What?
49:04 David Imel? Nice.
49:04 Speaker 01 No way.
49:05 David Imel? Nice, Andrew.
49:06 Andrew Manganelli? Give me one.
49:06 David Imel? That's a point. Yeah, and I'll have to show you guys these photos. Maybe I should upload them separately because in full resolution because it looks.
49:13 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, Lincoln show. I mean, it's still a great looking photo.
49:15 David Imel? Yeah, but it looks like crap on Google Slides compared.
49:17 Andrew Manganelli? iPhone? This isn't how you guys look at photos?
49:19 David Imel? And by the way, so this is a, this is a basically unprocessed iPhone raw photo. To your point about the whites being hot, on the raw photos from the iPhone, the whites are quite hot.
49:31 Speaker 01 Usually they have a little bit at the top.
49:33 David Imel? They're a little bit over, like, it just, it's not doing, it's not pulling down the highlights and jacking up the shadows like it would in a normal iPhone shot. Right. So that is not necessarily a giveaway.
49:43 Speaker 01 Gotcha, gotcha.
49:44 David Imel? All right, let's move on to image two.
49:46 Speaker 01 Okay. Image two, looks like you've climbed to the top of a very tall mountain.
49:50 David Imel? Yeah.
49:50 Speaker 01 And pointed down at the peak of another very tall mountain, which is poking through the clouds. And again, blue sky in the background and some foreground detail. Lot of snow. This is a lot of snow.
50:02 David Imel? Yeah.
50:04 David Imel? Wow. As a climber.
50:05 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, there's a guy climbing in the very deep snow and presumably what looks like people have skied down.
50:13 David Imel? Yeah.
50:13 Andrew Manganelli? Just because of the way it's.
50:14 David Imel? People ski off this cliff and paraglide.
50:16 Andrew Manganelli? That's crazy.
50:18 David Imel? It's ridiculous.
50:19 Andrew Manganelli? This is one of those things where I'm, I'm leaning camera, but just to think, David, God, up here with the camera.
50:27 David Imel? There is so much detail.
50:28 Andrew Manganelli? There's so much, yeah. I think it's the, so the mountain coming out of the clouds, that specifically just looks so sharp, but not fake sharp. It looks really.
50:39 Speaker 01 What, can I ask one question?
50:41 David Imel? Yeah.
50:41 Speaker 01 About the M11?
50:42 David Imel? Yeah.
50:42 Speaker 01 How much dynamic range does it typically have?
50:45 David Imel? Quite a lot. The M10, without getting into too much detail, the M10 peaked the highlights, like, if you clipped the highlights, they were just gone. The M11 has quite a bit more dynamic range.
50:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, this is M11. I think M11.
50:58 Andrew Manganelli? I honestly have no idea anymore.
51:02 Speaker 04 It's the Leica. What did you, can you tell us what post-processing you might have done? Like, did you limit it to just curves? Did you adjust the color?
51:13 David Imel? I did very little to this photo.
51:15 Speaker 04 Would you have added it yet?
51:17 David Imel? No, I didn't add it.
51:18 Speaker 04 All right, then this is the Leica for sure. Look at this guy.
51:22 David Imel? Yeah, there's a little vignette in the, in the top corners.
51:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:25 David Imel? Yeah, that's a Leica.
51:26 Speaker 01 That's a Leica.
51:26 Andrew Manganelli? Little vignette.
51:27 Speaker 04 Let's go, baby!
51:28 David Imel? Alright, alright.
51:29 Speaker 01 It looks fire.
51:30 David Imel? Let's move on to photo. Okay, so this is a set of photos.
51:34 Speaker 01 Two photos.
51:35 David Imel? That are kind of the same photo, the focal lengths are a little bit different, but they're taken from the same perspective. Uh, and, yeah, they look very similar.
51:45 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, one is, you can see the rock, so it is a mountain at a like, kind of lakeside, or is this like a glacier?
51:51 David Imel? This is an Alpine lake, yeah, an Alpine lake.
51:54 Andrew Manganelli? But like, you can see the rock in the left picture, that's the rock in the right picture, and it is in a very tighter lens.
52:00 Speaker 01 He's very tall.
52:01 David Imel? People's eyebrows.
52:03 Andrew Manganelli? Marquez, what's happening?
52:06 David Imel? It's very, it's very tall.
52:08 Speaker 01 Don't worry about it.
52:09 David Imel? Um, so you can see the rock, what else can you, you also see?
52:12 Andrew Manganelli? I'm just saying, you can tell the focal lengths are extremely different because of that rock, yeah.
52:16 David Imel? Yeah, the green of the water on the right versus the slightly bluer cast of the water on the left.
52:21 Speaker 01 Right.
52:23 David Imel? I am fairly confident the iPhone is on the left and the Leica's on the right.
52:27 Andrew Manganelli? I just wanna, your green thing though, might be because of how far zoomed in the one on the, or the right is, where you're seeing most of the green on the shallower part, closer to David on the left, where the right...
52:40 Andrew Manganelli? Wait, you said this is at the same location?
52:42 Speaker 01 The one on the right is the Leica.
52:43 David Imel? I'm standing in the same, I'm standing in the same spot for both of these, but I had different focal lengths on the different cameras.
52:53 David Imel? But I have lenses for the Leica that match the focal lengths of the iPhone.
52:56 Andrew Manganelli? But, that obviously didn't happen on this one?
52:59 David Imel? Yeah, I, I didn't go in, I didn't, when I was there, I wasn't like, I'm gonna do this test, I just had this idea on the plane ride back.
53:06 Speaker 01 I'm staking my entire thesis on this. The way that the rocks look on the left, looks like iPhone processing, even though there's not a ton of processing, it just looks like an iPhone, so I'm going left is iPhone, right is Leica.
53:18 Andrew Manganelli? I was gonna go right is Leica, just because of how good the detail in the rightmost mountains that aren't in the left photo is.
53:26 Speaker 01 Okay, I got it, I got it. The left is the Leica, because there is dirt on the sensor, David. Top left, baby.
53:34 David Imel? That's a, that's a bird.
53:35 Speaker 01 Never mind.
53:36 David Imel? Yeah, that's a bird.
53:37 Speaker 04 That's not a bird.
53:37 David Imel? It is a bird.
53:38 Andrew Manganelli? I just thought that was my computer screen. He's dirty.
53:42 Speaker 03 I was literally screening my computer, screening the past five minutes.
53:45 Speaker 04 I, I think producer table agrees with Marquez.
53:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:48 Speaker 04 That the, the Leica is the one on the right for, for two reasons. One, I think the one on the right is cropped in after you took the, like you, you cropped it in, in Lightroom. And I don't think you'd really be able to do that on an iPhone and get, get something that looks so nice. And two, there's way more dynamic range in the sky on the one on the right, which I think you would need superior Leica processing to accomplish.
54:17 David Imel? Okay. The answer is that you're all wrong.
54:20 Speaker 03 We're both iPhones?
54:23 David Imel? The iPhone photo is the one on the right. Re- yeah. And that's a singular raw image that like I barely processed at all.
54:31 Andrew Manganelli? It's impressive.
54:32 David Imel? Isn't that?
54:33 Andrew Manganelli? It's really impressive. Even like all the gravel close to you on the.
54:36 David Imel? Trash.
54:36 Speaker 04 I just wanna. No, no, no, no. It means that the iPhone's computational photography is trash. If this is what the sensor is doing when left to its own devices.
54:46 David Imel? Exactly.
54:46 Speaker 04 What are we doing?
54:47 David Imel? Like a regular iPhone photo would not look nearly this.
54:50 Speaker 01 Well, okay, thi- this is a beautiful scene.
54:53 David Imel? Yeah.
54:53 Speaker 01 That it's really hard to take a bad looking photo of.
54:56 David Imel? Sure.
54:57 Speaker 01 So if you give this.
54:58 Speaker 03 Watch me. Step aside.
55:00 Speaker 01 If you stand out there in all this light and take it and you give the sensor this best case scenario, almost any modern sensor is going to do a very respectful job.
55:09 David Imel? I don't know. Not with computational photography.
55:11 Speaker 01 Well, as I was saying, the sensor will, but then the processing is what gives your photo the look afterwards.
55:16 David Imel? And this is the point I wanted to make.
55:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:18 David Imel? Is that phone processing sucks because all they're doing is they're just optimizing for storage. They're optimizing for like shadow detail. This is why, and I might get crap for saying this, but like when Google, Google got rid of their regular raw processing and they introduced a sort of like pro raw kinda thing, which is in my opinion, just worse. Cause it just lifts the shadows and you don't always want the shadows to be lifted if you want it to look like a real picture. Anyway, we can move on. You're all wrong.
55:47 Andrew Manganelli? Wait, was that actually dust on the sensor and not a bird?
55:49 David Imel? No, that is actually, actually a bird.
55:50 Andrew Manganelli? I thought you were trying to throw Adam off.
55:51 David Imel? No, it is a, it was, it was a bird. I did later get dust on my sensor, but that is a bird. Okay. Next photo. You wanna describe it?
56:00 Speaker 01 Next photo is, uh, what looks on the left side of the frame to be a really high stack of various sized rocks.
56:06 Andrew Manganelli? So is that a Karen?
56:09 David Imel? What?
56:10 Andrew Manganelli? Is, I think that's how you pronounce it. A lot of like national parks and stuff will put up these small rock structures to indicate where a trail is.
56:16 David Imel? Yeah.
56:17 Andrew Manganelli? So this is like clearly a trail pass with a lot of snow on it, but.
56:21 David Imel? I thought they had just built it to sort of replicate this, the shape of the mountain in front of it.
56:25 Andrew Manganelli? Funny, cause I always am not sure how to pronounce it because I think it's C A R I N.
56:30 David Imel? Oh, like a Corinne?
56:32 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, no. C A I R N. Manmade pile of stone used to mark a trail, especially in areas where path might be unclear.
56:39 David Imel? Cairn?
56:41 Andrew Manganelli? You're not. Oh, somebody's gonna roast me for that, but.
56:45 David Imel? Okay, so you want to describe the image as you see it?
56:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. So it looks like on the left side of the frame, we got a really solid stack of stones with some snow on them, possibly indicating a trailhead or something like that. And then on the right is a whole bunch of snow-covered mountains. Whole bunch of blue sky in the background, still plenty of dynamic range, a lot of things in the shadow of the mountain this time. Yeah, a lot of D R to play with. I'm confused.
57:15 Speaker 03 I'm gonna say this is iPhone.
57:18 Andrew Manganelli? My initial thought was iPhone with no real substantial evidence to back it with.
57:23 Speaker 03 My thinking is the shadows on the mountain are a little high. And the sky looks the same as the iPhone picture in the last image, like the gradient.
57:34 Speaker 01 My logic is they're all, when they're so compressed in Google Slides, you can't use detail anymore. So I'm trying to go by exposure.
57:43 David Imel? That's fair.
57:44 Speaker 01 And the whole, at first I was like, that little portion in the middle right that is almost fully black, it's pretty dark and that's something that the iPhone kind of wouldn't allow, but they also have the entire shadow side of this mountain in a lot of detail, which kind of feels like something the iPhone would do. So I don't know, I'm gonna, I guess I'm going iPhone because the mountain's in shadow and you can see all of it.
58:10 Speaker 03 I'm stumped on this one. Like I, there's nothing I can really. Point two, which is frustrating, man.
58:17 Andrew Manganelli? Oh wait, you can see a reflection of him with the camera in this.
58:21 Speaker 01 I wish. In his smart glasses. It's the Metta Ray.
58:26 Andrew Manganelli? It was the Metta Ray.
58:28 Speaker 01 David, which camera was this one? Uh, this is the iPhone. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Next photo. Next photo is a landscape of a mountainside lake. The lake is blue green. The mountains in the background are covered in snow. The foreground has less snow. It's mostly stones and moss and some olive green plant type stuff. And the sky is blue again with some cirrus clouds. Yeah. I, there's a little grain to it, no?
58:56 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah.
58:57 David Imel? Or is that just the water?
58:58 Andrew Manganelli? That's Google slides.
59:00 Speaker 01 I'm just looking at the water and I guess it's ripples in the water.
59:02 Andrew Manganelli? I think that's ripples in the water.
59:03 Speaker 01 Okay. Yeah. Well, the shadow is the right side. Plenty of detail there.
59:11 Speaker 01 I'm, I'm going, I iPhone again.
59:15 Speaker 03 I'm going Leica. I think if you look at the sky, there's a little bit of grain that I think would be.
59:24 Andrew Manganelli? That looks exactly the same as in the last photo.
59:28 Speaker 03 Why are you, why are you doing this to me, Andrew?
59:30 Andrew Manganelli? Which was an iPhone and the one before, yeah, I think iPhone also.
59:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think we think it's an iPhone.
59:34 Speaker 03 Ellis is just shaking his head.
59:36 Andrew Manganelli? It's also funny because I may have skipped ahead to the next one. I could tell how long you stayed at this lake because there's that one singular rock formation somewhere in all of these photos. It kind of looks like a like tower.
59:46 Speaker 03 Camera.
59:47 Speaker 04 This is a 16 Pro?
59:48 Speaker 01 Seventeen Pro.
59:49 Speaker 04 Seventeen Pro?
59:50 Speaker 01 Yeah. Which camera is this one? This is iPhone.
59:52 Speaker 04 God, is this what's gonna convince me to buy the new iPhone?
59:55 Speaker 01 Now, I'm. You could take this with an iPhone 3GS.
1:00:00 Speaker 01 I don't know about that.
1:00:01 Andrew Manganelli? It doesn't even have a plateau.
1:00:03 Speaker 03 I did see someone go around taking side by side pictures and it didn't do bad, the 3GS.
1:00:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean. Get it this much light? The 3GS processing was better before they introduced computational photography, but. Okay. We want to the next photo. I know these are a lot of fairly similar. Yeah, this next one is a landscape version from maybe the other side of that lake. Yeah. Okay. A lot of shadow on the left. Deep mountains in the highlights on the right. Wow. I'm going back to Leica because I think there's some real shadow depth on the left in that little crevice.
1:00:35 David Imel? Uh, still a ton of range, though. I kinda hope it's the iPhone.
1:00:39 Andrew Manganelli? The like rock on the right has like a green tint to it.
1:00:43 David Imel? Yeah.
1:00:44 Andrew Manganelli? That feels, uh, I know nothing about Leicas.
1:00:47 Speaker 04 There's also more.
1:00:48 Andrew Manganelli? It feels like something.
1:00:49 Speaker 03 I think iPhone because at this point, I think David's just trying to me.
1:00:54 David Imel? That's not a bad strategy. That's good.
1:00:56 Speaker 03 Oh, Ellis found something. Never mind. It's the Leica.
1:01:00 David Imel? What did you find? What'd you find?
1:01:02 Speaker 04 We're on slide six, right? I'm not tripping?
1:01:03 David Imel? Yeah, six.
1:01:04 Speaker 04 Leica.
1:01:05 David Imel? What'd you find?
1:01:06 Speaker 04 I can't tell you.
1:01:07 Andrew Manganelli? I mean, we already put in like.
1:01:09 Speaker 04 It could be two really Boca-y birds, but the.
1:01:13 Andrew Manganelli? Oh, I also thought that was on my screen.
1:01:15 Speaker 04 This really looks like.
1:01:16 David Imel? Oh, that is smudge. Yeah.
1:01:18 Andrew Manganelli? The two dots.
1:01:19 David Imel? I got spots on my sensor. My iPhones, just kidding. Yeah, no, it's the Leica. I, I also probably should have cropped this differently because it's more of a giveaway when this landscape.
1:01:29 Andrew Manganelli? Aspect ratio.
1:01:30 David Imel? Yeah, yeah. But I did crop some of the iPhone photos, so.
1:01:34 Speaker 04 If slide seven is the iPhone, I'm throwing away all of my cameras.
1:01:37 David Imel? Okay, so slide seven.
1:01:39 Speaker 04 This is like an ultra detailed, really far away landscape of two mountain peaks where the, the shit, the sun is casting a shadow that so only the, the peaks of the mountain are illuminated and you have this valley that is in the, in shadow, but still has so much detail.
1:01:56 Andrew Manganelli? Yeah, there's a lot of detail in all of the shadow and even just like the rock face or the, the hill in front of him. You can see everything. This is really cool because like where the sun is hitting is the only snow cap part of the mountains where the rest you can see the ski trails despite it not having snow.
1:02:11 David Imel? Golden.
1:02:12 Andrew Manganelli? Um, so you can tell this is like the valley of a, you know, a ski town. Um, and the fact that you can still see all of that in all of the shadow is very impressive.
1:02:21 David Imel? I wish I was at the scene so I could see how light it actually is, but I think because it's darker, I'm going Leica. But I, I could be wrong.
1:02:29 Speaker 03 I'm going Leica for my wallet's sake.
1:02:31 Andrew Manganelli? I think I'm going Leica on vibes.
1:02:35 David Imel? I'm looking this up because I don't remember.
1:02:40 David Imel? I feel like that says something, right? Um, is it this one? Yeah.
1:02:44 Andrew Manganelli? This is actually iPhone selfie camera.
1:02:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:02:51 Andrew Manganelli? He unlocked the full sensor.
1:02:53 David Imel? All right, um, this one's the iPhone.
1:02:55 Speaker 01 Hmm. Okay. Well, I guess I'm just gonna murder myself.
1:03:00 David Imel? Enjoy your hustle.
1:03:01 Andrew Manganelli? Crazy David.
1:03:02 Speaker 01 I know. It's crazy. It is crazy. Raw photos are crazy. You know why I couldn't tell? Cause it didn't say shot on iPhone. Yeah. Where's the watermark? Yeah. Where's the branding? Yeah. Okay. There's two more. Yeah. Second to last one here is very blue.
1:03:18 Speaker 04 Very blue.
1:03:18 Speaker 01 You're on the, you're on the edge of a lake. A beautiful reflection of a mountain in an Alpine lake. And there's a, there's a person right in the center of the frame. Walking past the white snow capped mountain. Yeah. With a cloud. You must be really altitude right now. Yeah. It was 12,000 feet. Sick. Wow. I almost broke my knees.
1:03:35 Andrew Manganelli? Oh man, I wish this water wasn't ripply.
1:03:37 Speaker 01 Well, I tried on so many, it was too bright to even do a long exposure on like any of my cameras. I tried to do long exposures and it was. Too much light. Too, too much light. Yeah. I didn't have any ND filters with me, so I couldn't, which is sad because it would have been awesome.
1:03:54 Andrew Manganelli? Well, no, I just mean, I wish it wasn't ripply because then the reflection would be like perfectly intact.
1:03:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:59 Andrew Manganelli? Of the mountain.
1:04:00 Speaker 01 Which would have been sick.
1:04:01 Andrew Manganelli? Which would have been awesome. That's what they like Mirror Lake at.
1:04:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:04 Andrew Manganelli? Uh, Yosemite, everyone loves.
1:04:06 Speaker 01 I want to get this right.
1:04:07 Andrew Manganelli? I'm going Leica.
1:04:08 Speaker 01 I'm defaulting to whatever Ellis wants to say for this one.
1:04:13 Andrew Manganelli? The shadow is very dark. It is very sharp.
1:04:17 Speaker 01 We have lost meaningful detail in the snow on the mountain, I've noticed. And we've also lost meaningful detail in the shadow in the foreground.
1:04:26 Speaker 04 This is the iPhone.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 Because of the lesser dynamic range, I'm going iPhone. I don't even have a good reason anymore.
1:04:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. It has to be the iPhone. This one is the iPhone.
1:04:39 Andrew Manganelli? This is the iPhone?
1:04:40 Speaker 01 Which ironically, I took this on the M11 as well, and I liked the iPhone shot.
1:04:43 Andrew Manganelli? Okay. I picked it because you pointed to your Leica when you were talking about long exposure and then you went, I mean, all my cameras. And I thought you just gave it away.
1:04:51 Speaker 01 No. Yeah. Well, all right. The final shot.
1:04:54 Speaker 04 This is an iPhone.
1:04:55 Speaker 01 Final shot is a nice, big valley shot where the mountains are going up to the left and up to the right. And in the far, far distance, there is a trail going up to this beautiful snow capped mountain. Also far less ideal lighting. It's much darker. Clearly darker, clearly quite a bit more, uh, I don't know if it's noise or green or what, but there's clouds, you know? It's not a blue sky anymore. This is a darker hour. Smoky clouds. Wow. Oh, this looks like a postcard.
1:05:25 Speaker 03 Is this a trick question? Did you take this with a different camera? Because this looks very different from all the other photos you took.
1:05:31 Speaker 01 Well, because there's way less light.
1:05:32 David Imel? It's because it's horizontal.
1:05:33 Speaker 03 Well, no, just all of it.
1:05:35 David Imel? And there's way less, it's totally different lighting.
1:05:37 Speaker 04 It looks like a, like a stock wallpaper on a Mac.
1:05:40 David Imel? Hmm. Complimentary?
1:05:44 David Imel? Uh, yeah, a lot of the other photos were taken at like similar times of day. This is, this is much different lighting.
1:05:50 Speaker 03 I'm gonna go iPhone for this one. Just because I feel like I've seen, ah, here we go. I'm gonna be wrong and I'm gonna sound like an idiot more so than I already have been. But I feel like I've seen this same level of like breakdown in the shadows with like smartphone photography.
1:06:05 Andrew Manganelli? I'm guessing Leica.
1:06:08 Andrew Manganelli? This is also my favorite photo out of all of them.
1:06:09 David Imel? Dang.
1:06:10 Speaker 01 I think this could be the iPhone. Yeah, I'm going iPhone.
1:06:14 Speaker 04 I think it's the iPhone, but just because it looks like Apple media. I don't have any.
1:06:19 Speaker 04 The sky is doing that thing again. Like the, the iPhone seems to take some of the exposure of the mountain and add it to the sky in a few of these. If that makes any sense. Like I've noticing like on some of the Leicas, it gradients out to dark as you go up. And on a lot of the iPhone shots, it gradients to the color of the mountain as you get closer to the horizon.
1:06:39 David Imel? This shot is the Leica.
1:06:41 Speaker 04 I don't know anything.
1:06:43 Speaker 03 I'm, I'm good at this.
1:06:44 Andrew Manganelli? I suck at this.
1:06:45 Speaker 03 The least amount of knowledge.
1:06:46 David Imel? Anyway, the point of this was to just show you that like, while I still prefer traditional cameras for the shooting experience, you too can take pretty cool pictures just with your phone. It's pretty insane.
1:06:58 Speaker 04 Freaky good.
1:06:59 David Imel? Like freaky good.
1:07:00 Speaker 04 Freaky.
1:07:01 David Imel? Like you can't tell the difference.
1:07:02 Speaker 03 I'm gonna steal one of our like iPhone pros just so I can go back and forth between the Pixel Pro and the iPhone Pro, because this is really bothering me.
1:07:10 David Imel? Yeah.
1:07:10 Speaker 03 I feel like I might have chosen wrong this year.
1:07:12 David Imel? Are there?
1:07:12 Andrew Manganelli? You can buy a Rico.
1:07:15 David Imel? Are there RAW apps on Pixel now? Or like, there probably are, right? RAW camera apps?
1:07:20 Speaker 01 I believe there are.
1:07:20 Speaker 03 There's like the.
1:07:21 David Imel? Open camera.
1:07:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, there's.
1:07:23 David Imel? Does that do RAW?
1:07:24 Speaker 04 Or like a little cup of ceviche? RAW apps, RAW apps?
1:07:29 David Imel? Oh.
1:07:29 Speaker 04 Anyone?
1:07:30 David Imel? Very nice.
1:07:31 Speaker 04 You did it with the jokes.
1:07:32 David Imel? I like that one.
1:07:33 Speaker 03 I forgot what it's called, but I think zero cam?
1:07:35 David Imel? My local ceviche place caught on fire a few weeks ago.
1:07:39 Speaker 04 Now they only serve grilled brinzi though.
1:07:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think that's our cue. Let's do trivia.
1:07:46 David Imel? All right.
1:07:46 Speaker 03 Trivia, what was David's local ceviche place?
1:07:52 Speaker 03 One Echo product that people often forget about are the Amazon Echo Buds. What was the-
1:07:57 Speaker 01 No, I never forgot. I never forgot.
1:08:00 Speaker 03 What was the last year that Amazon tried to sell these sub $50 True Wireless A&C Buds?
1:08:07 Andrew Manganelli? They were under $50.
1:08:08 Speaker 03 Under $50.
1:08:09 Speaker 01 Remember the Echo Frames?
1:08:11 Andrew Manganelli? Am I thinking of the wrong ones?
1:08:12 Speaker 04 The, um, this is Price is Right rule. So if you go over, you're disqualified. Yeah. It's you. Do you hear that?
1:08:19 Andrew Manganelli? You go over, you're disqualified.
1:08:20 Speaker 04 So what was the last year they made them?
1:08:22 Andrew Manganelli? Okay.
1:08:23 Speaker 01 All right. Well, we'll think about this one. Answers at the end like usual. We'll be right back.
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1:10:44 Speaker 01 All right, welcome back. We're using this last segment to jump in to listen to maybe the most interesting part of my conversation that I got to have when I was out in Menlo Park with James Cameron, who you might have heard of, a pretty legendary movie producer, director, creator, filmmaker in his own right, and with Andrew Bosworth, who was also there with Meta. So he's the CTO of Meta, and we just kind of had a random off-the-cuff chat about what they're doing with these glasses, the first-person video, and it kind of went off the rails, to be honest, but this last part of the conversation, I thought was pretty fun, just because I found it interesting to put someone from like real OG media into a YouTuber's
1:11:26 Speaker 01 shoes and try to ask him a little bit about what he thinks of, you know, the character and the filmmaker being one and the same. So without any further ado, here's some of that conversation. You know, I'm familiar with audio projects, and it seems like they take advantage of either some bleeding-edge technology or some new technology to give a new perspective or make something incredible. And I wonder if you see first-person cameras as an opportunity for even a movie or a project that could maybe have some unique perspective we haven't seen before. Do you picture a first-person movie being interesting?
1:12:00 Speaker 08 Well, I think the filmmaker becomes the character in that, right? And so how charismatic or interesting is your filmmaker? Most filmmakers are perfectly happy way back behind the camera, not being constantly studied, but on the other hand, we've got a whole generation... Coming up on social media that are just used to being observed all the time and even, you know, the whole influencer culture.
1:12:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:12:27 Speaker 08 People want to be observed.
1:12:29 Speaker 01 For sure.
1:12:29 Speaker 08 You know, so absolutely, I think you could, you can have a first-person narrative shot with first-person lenses. It could be script, could be fully scripted, it could be, it could be a proper production.
1:12:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:12:41 Speaker 08 You know, I think that'd be a lot of fun. I would go back again to this thing that I, that I wrote back in 1993, I think, called Strange Days, and it was about, we just, people just record their experience and then they sell it to other people. You know, which, by the way, is the world we live in.
1:12:58 Speaker 01 Turns out.
1:12:59 Speaker 08 Turns out, I was a little ahead of time on that.
1:13:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:13:03 Speaker 08 Yeah.
1:13:03 Speaker 01 We're kind of there. I feel like a lot of my videos are me trying to put the device in your hands so you can see what it's like to hold it and own it before you actually buy it.
1:13:11 Speaker 08 Mm-hmm.
1:13:11 Speaker 01 And as tech gets better, I'm able to do that with higher fidelity and more personality and, and closer to real time.
1:13:18 Speaker 08 But you become, you become the filmmaker and the performer at the same time.
1:13:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:13:23 Speaker 08 It's a one-man band.
1:13:24 Speaker 01 If you were, gets put into my shoes, yeah.
1:13:26 Speaker 08 Yeah.
1:13:26 Speaker 01 Which is pretty sweet.
1:13:28 Speaker 08 Well, I mean, you know, we are gonna do this Deep Sea Expedition thing where I might be in that very role because as my experience is being lived and I'm seeing something that's never been seen before, that's being piped out and, and part, part of a number of feeds, there'll be, you know, multiple people experiencing this and then we'll have to figure out how to switch that, how to, you know, how to, how to turn it into some kind of a piece downstream that's going out live. So, that'll all get worked out.
1:13:57 Speaker 01 Pretty excited about that. Tech challenge, it sounds like.
1:13:59 Speaker 08 Can't say too much about that right now.
1:14:01 Speaker 01 Pretty excited about it. Can't say too much. Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes together. I did, I watched the Avatar.
1:14:07 Speaker 08 Oh, you saw the content for today?
1:14:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, the two clips from today.
1:14:10 Speaker 08 And you saw it in the Quest 3?
1:14:12 Speaker 01 I saw it in Quest 3.
1:14:13 Speaker 08 Yeah.
1:14:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:14:13 Speaker 08 Yeah, it plays well in the, in the, in the device, I think.
1:14:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I've never watched an entire movie in a headset, but I'm thinking like, it's almost getting to the place where I'd be fine with that. The headset's light enough now.
1:14:25 Speaker 08 What'd you do? You'd make them lighter and...
1:14:28 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah, where to do. James has notes.
1:14:33 Speaker 01 I imagine.
1:14:33 Speaker 09 But we listen.
1:14:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, sick.
1:14:35 Speaker 08 Yeah, I think it plays, I think it plays well. And you know, the thing I, the thing I love about the, about the, you know, um, MR or VR is that they're innately stereoscopic. So anything that you're going to want to put up, put up in there is going to be 3D. And I've been working on, on 3D production for 25 years and, and have figured out how to make it easy to watch, you know, and, and non, not confronting to your senses and, and so on.
1:15:07 Speaker 01 If you were, if you were a YouTuber today, put yourself in my shoes. I've been trying to make more and more realistic content to put the viewer in my shoes to see what it's like to hold what I'm holding.
1:15:19 Speaker 08 Yeah.
1:15:20 Speaker 01 Do you think 3D content is the natural inevitable future of what I'm doing? Or is that more of a alongside?
1:15:28 Speaker 08 I, I think, I think 650 million years of evolution says yes.
1:15:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:15:34 Speaker 08 Because once, once organisms got to two eyes, nature never looked back. And we have two eyes for a reason because it gives us more engagement, right? So what do you want to do as a YouTuber? You want to engage people. You want to hold, hold eyeballs, right?
1:15:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:15:50 Speaker 08 What clicks? So, so engagement, I mean, it has to do with, you know, a lot of, you know, neurobiology and that sort of thing about how the brain communicates with itself internally. And you, you probably know this, but, but there, there are a lot of neurons in the, in the visual cortex that are triggered by parallax. So what is, when you, when you're writing a discrete image to two eyes, you're generating parallax in the brain, right? That's where we fuse those two images together to make a, a 3D kind of sense of the world.
1:16:22 Speaker 01 Yep.
1:16:23 Speaker 08 And because those different brain regions have to talk to each other, those, and, and, you know, so a neuron's like a, like a GPU, right? So it, it's, that particular neuron does nothing but sense parallax. Other neurons do other things. They recognize faces. This is parallax recognition. And then those different regions of the visual cortex talk to each other. So there's actually enhanced brain activity. When you're staring at a flat image versus a stereoscopic image. So that same thing about when you had, when you wrote memory deeper.
1:16:57 Speaker 09 Yep, that's right.
1:16:58 Speaker 08 Based on emotion, it's the same principle. The more your brain is active, the better you'll remember it, the more engaged you'll be. So yeah, so that's the long-winded answer. The short-winded answer is yes.
1:17:09 Speaker 09 Yeah, I think it's a depth and breadth thing. If you look at the trends in media content, not just in the internet, but even going back a hundred years to the novel novella article, like they go to the edges. You know, our most popular media types now are hundred-plus-hour video games and the shortest, like most rapidly available content. And it makes sense, like we either have a little bit of time and we're just like snatching it up and you'd be foolish, especially in your business, not to be paying good attention to that. That's where it's kind of the easy in, easy out. But there's a second part of this, which is can you take the depth of engagement? For your most loyal, committed people and bring them in deeper. And there is a whole history here of investments to make sure that it's getting easier and
1:17:53 Speaker 09 easier over time to tell more compelling stories, more compelling experiences to people. And that's one of the things that we're really passionate about, obviously.
1:18:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, I kind of see it as a natural, as a natural evolution. There are all kinds of things too that will today turn 2D imagery into, it'll try to perceive a stereoscopic, stereoscopic version of that. And it's impressive, it's with AI, it kind of seems to figure it out pretty quickly.
1:18:21 Speaker 08 It's going to take over eventually. I mean, I think right now there's, there's one very decisive advantage with native stereo cameras, which is real time. You know, to get, to get a really comparable result in a, from a gen AI, you know, stereo conversion model or depth model, it needs more time. But it'll catch up, you know, it'll catch up.
1:18:43 Speaker 01 All right, well, that was a pretty fun conversation. Shout out again to Boz and James Cameron for the time, which leaves us with just one more thing to do this episode, now that everyone's back. It's, of course, trivia time.
1:18:59 Speaker 04 Question number one is about the Amazon Echo Flex. What was it? That's it, that's the question. That's a really good question. What was that? I know, because Echo Flex tells you literally nothing. I was gonna say, like, that's a bad name if you don't know what it is. It's, it's sick. It's...
1:19:28 Speaker 03 Is this closest without going over?
1:19:30 Speaker 04 Sure. Yeah. It's one of those slap bracelets. Guys, what is it? Marquez, you first. I think it's some sort of a display. Nope.
1:19:39 Speaker 03 I said phone.
1:19:40 Speaker 04 Nope. I put smart display. Nope. Okay. What if I told you that the Echo Flex... Was that the clock? It's a... Microwave. USB-A to wall adapter. Wait. That has a speaker and Alexa built in. Yup. Why do they name it that? Why did they have the Flex? Who knows? Why would you name it that?
1:20:02 Andrew Manganelli? What the heck?
1:20:03 Speaker 03 All right, quick update on the score while we're here. Uh, Marquez with six, Andrew with eight, David after getting 0-for-2 last week when we called him after the pod. Still at three. All right.
1:20:19 Speaker 04 Wow.
1:20:20 Speaker 03 That hit way too well. Next question, what was the last year that Amazon tried to sell $50 true wireless ANC earbuds called the Amazon Echo Buds?
1:20:30 Speaker 04 As close as I can. They fluctuated in price over the years in different versions, but almost all the ones I saw were sub $50. So, if there are any diehard Echo Buds users out there who paid more than $50 and are mad I'm not giving them credit, please email me, [email protected] .
1:20:50 Speaker 03 I don't remember the Echo Buds at all.
1:20:54 Speaker 04 Adam just doesn't want to get that angry. Oh, I don't have access to that email, so you will be hitting him. All right.
1:21:02 Speaker 04 Who wants to read first?
1:21:03 Speaker 01 We can go in ascending order, because I put 2020.
1:21:06 Speaker 04 2020. They were made after that.
1:21:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:21:11 Speaker 03 I put 2021.
1:21:12 Speaker 04 They were made after that.
1:21:13 Speaker 01 I think the answer is 2024, but I put 2023 to be safe.
1:21:16 Speaker 04 They were made after that because the answer is, well, David, you do get the point.
1:21:19 Speaker 01 Yay.
1:21:20 Speaker 04 Uh, but the answer is they are still being made to this day. You can go on amazon.com and buy a pair of Echo Buds.
1:21:27 Speaker 01 That was good framing.
1:21:28 Speaker 04 Absolutely should not do it.
1:21:30 Speaker 01 I thought when I heard that, I was like, really? A sub $50 ANC head like earbuds seems like a great product today. So if they stopped making them, they must've had like a really important reason to stop making them. Yeah. Which might've been like around COVID times, because if they kept going after COVID, they would've found out that there's a really good market for them.
1:21:46 Speaker 04 I just thought it's funny that they make this and no one, I've never heard, I didn't even know they made them before today. Yeah. On the Alexa store, there are two different models of Amazon Echo Buds that are both listed as newest model.
1:22:01 Speaker 01 Tough.
1:22:02 Speaker 04 You know, it's crazy that like, you know, one of the most valuable companies in the world, folks.
1:22:06 Speaker 01 They'll run by humans after all.
1:22:09 Speaker 04 Allegedly, man.
1:22:13 Speaker 03 Can I yell at a company real quick?
1:22:14 Speaker 01 2.737 trillion dollar company.
1:22:18 Speaker 03 How much is OpenAI worth?
1:22:20 Speaker 01 Nothing, because they're still not profitable.
1:22:22 Speaker 03 Fair. Well, they released a new Sora app that we didn't talk about, but we will probably at some point, but not on Android. How is this company so, well, it has all the money and they didn't release an Android?
1:22:33 Speaker 01 Well, Sora's just the slop generator, right?
1:22:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, but they have the app now on iOS.
1:22:39 Speaker 01 Sora app, yeah, now specifically.
1:22:41 Speaker 04 Cool.
1:22:42 Speaker 01 Well, hey, either way, that's been it for this episode. Hope you enjoyed lots of fun conversations, more coming up as well. Obviously, we had some people on this episode, but we have more coming on future episodes. So stay tuned for that. Get subscribed if you haven't already and we'll catch you guys very soon. Next week in Techtober. Peace.
1:23:00 Speaker 03 Wait, former host, Adam Alina, Ellis River, and partner with Vox Media Podcast Network. And our track for music was created by Vane Sil.
1:23:05 Speaker 04 Bingo.
1:23:06 Speaker 03 Also, we're already in Techtober.
1:23:15 Speaker 03 Marquez, can you actually scroll reels on there? Like, for real? For reals. No joke. Damn, that was good.
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