Pod Insights Vision Pros Live Podcast Marketing Mastery & Mentor Mindset: Raw Talk with Andrew Coleman | Session 1 About this episode Description:
Before the cameras officially roll, the real conversations happen. In this raw and unscripted Session 1 with Andrew Coleman, AI marketing strategist and founder of BT Digital, Jackson Calame gets candid about what separates good marketers from great ones. From the danger of obsessing over attribution tracking, to why TV advertising is far from dead, to how humility will always outpace arrogance, this behind-the-scenes conversation is packed with mentorship gold for any visionary entrepreneur ready to level up their thinking.
Connect with Andrew Coleman:
🌐 Website: https://btdigital.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-coleman-marketing/
Vision Pros Live Resources:
🔥 Automate leads with AI 24/7: https://ai.firstclassbusiness.io/
🎙️ Be a guest on VPL: https://visionproslive.com/
Timestamps:
0:00 - Mentor feedback: the danger of making baseless claims in marketing
1:30 - Why saying "TV is useless" can destroy your reputation with big brands
3:30 - How to make bold points without crossing the line
5:00 - The tracking addiction: why attribution obsession strangles growth
6:00 - The Laserway story: how direct attribution was limiting their scale
11:00 - The NordicTrack campaign: 32-to-1 returns and what tracking couldn't see
14:00 - The Kickstarter example: proving value you can't directly attribute
16:30 - Andrew's shift: why he now believes TV advertising has real value
18:00 - Tactics vs. principles: combining both for a lasting legacy
19:00 - Why Stephen Bartlett is the model: tactics + human intentionality
20:30 - True definition of an expert: someone willing to go get the answer
22:00 - Final wisdom: you're not insane, you're determined, never stop learning
23:00 - Closing thoughts
#VisionProsLive #AndrewColeman #BTDigital #MarketingMindset #AttributionMarketing #TVAdvertising #MentorTalk #Entrepreneurship #GrowthMarketing
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 All right. Welcome into Vision Pros Live with Jackson Callum. I'm your show host. We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.
0:19 Speaker 01 Maybe I looked at Jeremy Minor's NEPQ, so that way I could do a little bit more psychology stuff with that. But then I don't like the, so how does this make you feel? Because if I'm on a sales call with someone, I really don't care how they feel and they don't care how I care how they feel. The point of the sales call-
0:37 Speaker 00 The thing is, you keep learning the way you're learning, then your humility will outpace any arrogance that comes along. And that's going to be important because you're going to have every reason to want, especially with some of the mentors you have, to want to get stuck in the arrogant club. If you can resist that urge, you can make it to the Stephen Bartlett levels. You have some refinement to do.
1:03 Speaker 00 And important refinement, you're always going to have refinement to do. I'm not going to be arbitrary and I'm not going to ghost you on this or like plant some mysterious seed. I'm going to close the loop on it for, for both of us. And I'm going to give you this episode, it's not an episode, it's pre-show, but we can use it however we want, right? You know, together mutually, I wouldn't disrespect you with that either. But I'm going to give you some feedback based on one thing that you said that can change your life for the better. And you can argue with it too. I'd like healthy conflict and it's different when somebody's being contentious, but what I want to give you is a gift. Because, and I'll give you an example. Let's say that I'm a promising rising doctor, right? I get my, I get my diploma, you know, as well, and I've got that.
1:47 Speaker 00 And I go into a forum and I, I speak publicly about how important the human body is. And I'm talking about the anatomy of the human body. And in that speech, I say, we all know how useless the heart is as an organ. And I finished that speech and that speech goes viral in public to the whole world.
2:07 Speaker 00 What happens to my reputation as a doctor?
2:10 Speaker 01 Diminishes.
2:12 Speaker 00 I would say so. I might be able to use a PR company to put a stunt in place and like viral spin that, you know, in a way where, oh, it's not, I wasn't really saying the art's not important. Oh, you know, and figure things out. But I think people who make it to Stevens level are either really, really good at owning their mistake. Jordan Peterson did that after his botched Congress delivery. I was super impressed that he was willing and able to do that. Or they're very good at making sure they're careful not to make basis claims. And so when I say basics claim, how do you know that TV is useless as an advertising platform? Do you have an
2:55 Speaker 00 evidence that it's useless? Or do you simply know that most people think that TV is useless? And most businesses screwed up badly. But does it actually make it useless? Because what if I could prove that TV is actually extremely important? And that if it's used correctly, it can be even more effective than some of the digital strategies that you've probably banked on?
3:20 Speaker 01 That is true.
3:22 Speaker 00 So that's an opportunity. And you're young, so you'll be forgiven much more than 20 years from now, when you, when you say something like that. But if you can learn the art and value of making sure that you don't juxtaposition against any principles, for one, which you haven't done, you know, or a lot of people do that where they'll be like, oh, the word of the year is authentic. You know, you know, it's, I don't want to be buzzwordy or anything. And it's like, can you really be buzzwordy about authenticity? Like, only if you try to play too hard, right, those people. But on, on the principles, or platforms, or
4:01 Speaker 00 extinguishments, I can say, like, man, so many people are screwing up on Facebook ads and, and, you know, Mark Zuckerberg makes a lot of money. You know, I can plant two seeds like that. People can run and get pissed off and say, I hate Facebook ads. They can do that all they want. I never said I hate Facebook ads. I never said I hate Mark Zuckerberg. I never said he was bad or evil. I just happened to make, make a statement about how people might feel. But I stayed out of the crosshairs on the process. And if you can manage to do that, where you're making your point that, that Stir people's feelings about TV or about traditional advertising.
4:42 Speaker 00 But if you become just like every other digital marketer, who because you sell hammers, everything looks like a nail. You start throwing the, throwing the kitchen sink at traditional advertising. You're going to show every major company out there that you have no idea what you're doing. Because Facebook advertises on TV. Google advertises on TV.
5:05 Speaker 00 Elon Musk maximizes TV without advertising because he's a PR genius. Um, right. So there's lots of, there's lots of proof cases. So everything that you said, with the exception of that one tiny thing. Genius, brilliant, incredible, easy to optimize.
5:24 Speaker 01 You know, it's funny that you say that because when I first got started in marketing, I used to say, you know, TV, print, all that was literally useless.
5:34 Speaker 00 So I said too.
5:35 Speaker 01 A couple of days ago. And it made sense to me at first. I was like, well, why would you like, you can't. And especially, you know, a couple of years ago, tracking really wasn't that great on TV, for being honest. And then on streaming.
5:46 Speaker 00 Tracking, tracking, here's my next piece for you before you, for you, just as a, just as a little. I'll plant the seed this time. I'll lead on this one.
5:56 Speaker 00 So many entrepreneurs are addicted to cocaine, I mean, conversions.
6:01 Speaker 00 And they don't realize that that addiction to attribution is 1,000% strangling their brands. They think that tracking is the key to growth. But in reality, it's one of the greatest problems that they have is they get addicted to it. They become transactional. They don't understand the value of transformational relationships. They limit their growth. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I wouldn't be mad to be in Russell Brunson's shoes, um, you know, and to be winning at his level. But I also don't want my legacy to be limited, um, to bro marketers and to growth hackers. Um, I don't want to be known as the champion of affiliate marketing. Where people are selling the box of cereal because of how much money they'll make on it, not because they have no idea how the cereal tastes.
6:47 Speaker 00 Um, like that's, there, there are certain ethical things that will, will, um, contribute to legacies, but it also keeps him playing in a circle that he's probably happy with.
7:00 Speaker 00 But if the if the goal is to get to the next and the next and next level, there's certain reputation factors that that limit where we play. There's certain people who will always be stuck in the G League. There's certain people who will never make it to that that next rung and level because they they make certain concessions with their game or with their way of doing things. And so if you can avoid making the concessions, Jeremy Miners, he's really good. By the way, I I do like Jeremy Miner and I'm with you. There's certain there's certain flaws with it.
7:33 Speaker 00 And Cole Gordon, learn from Taylor Welch, which is one of the best sales mentor, close, you know, the closers program that Cole has good, good stuff. But if you're going for a more abundant legacy, then keep leaning in on that, what you just talked about, loving to learn and saying, you know what, I'm going to keep my humility here and say, what else? What else can I learn about this? Rather than determine or decide, rather than be the judge of what is or isn't, be the constant scientific, like mad scientist who says, you know what, let's see, let's look at it. So go ahead. Please continue with your thought on what you're going to say about TV and traditional.
8:16 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, I agree with with most of that, I would say.
8:19 Speaker 00 Sure.
8:19 Speaker 01 With TV and traditional, I used to think it was useless. But then when I started my marketing job, that's all they did. They only did radio ads. They only did like streaming on specific platforms and they'd work with an agency to get those placements. And I was like, well, this is stupid. Why are you guys doing this? But it wasn't until a couple of days ago, actually, I was sitting down, watching, I think it was Hulu with my girlfriend and I see multiple ads come up for dishwasher pods for Ro, like the dietary supplement for GLP ones and all this stuff. And I was like,
8:56 Speaker 01 That is so useful because this demographic who would use GLP ones for losing weight or someone that's using dishwasher pods, most likely is going to think about that stuff when they're sitting down watching TV. When are you on Facebook or Instagram scrolling and you're like, oh dishwasher pods, yes. But when you're sitting down watching TV, you're like, hmm, maybe we should try that. Yeah, yeah, let's hold on, let me look that up. And it's a TV ad too. So now you have time. You're not even wasting your time on your program. Yeah, like that is so and someone who's sitting on the couch, watching TV instead of maybe going to the gym, being active, something
9:37 Speaker 01 like that. They're probably hitting their target demographic on there. And nowadays, tracking is even better. So you can see with unique identifiers and everything like that, who is or what devices are watching. The other thing is with, like you said, testing like a mad scientist is something I believe in. I don't believe in yes or no. I believe in there's not black and white, but there's varying levels of gray. It's just how, how dark or how light is
10:05 Speaker 00 it? Tons of color in life. I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that. That's, do you mind if I share a little story on tracking?
10:11 Speaker 01 Please.
10:12 Speaker 00 Because it's again, I call it the cocaine because most of, most companies get so obsessed with it, they lose sight of the principles and what's more important. And so should we never track? No, I never said that. Right. Being a wise steward is definitely a part of that is making sure that you know what's going on. But they become so obsessed with it that they often end up making the decisions solely based on it. So we were running campaigns for Laserway back when they had eight locations. I was at Video Power Marketing. Video Power Marketing is known as the YouTube ad experts of the world. And Jake Larson was handpicked by the founder of YouTube to represent YouTube ads back before the ad program launched. So back, that was in 2010.
10:55 Speaker 00 There they went on and our our YouTube ad producers or our video ad producer produced a number one YouTube ad of the decade with Kobe Bryant, Lina Messi on Turkish Airlines. And his name is Travis Chambers. He's since retired and launched outpost X.com worth looking up at some point. But anyway, all reference points, not not I'm trying to show about here, but these, these are the, you know, go back. These are my mentors too. All right. So worth worth looking at.
11:24 Speaker 00 So here we were working with Todd at Laserway and we wanted to scale this campaign out and where we normally would tell people first month, launch, second month, optimization, third month crushing it. Really, our timeline was week one, launch week two, we optimize week three, we're crushing already, you know, you always want to under promise over deliver. So we're getting them on three and we can't freaking break this campaign. Um, I guess doing okay, but we can't scale it and we can't figure out what's going wrong. And we finally get the offer in place. And so boom, we cracked the code on that. We get this thing going. And again, we can't scale, though. The the advertising budget just won't scale. We can't spend. And so the only thing we could really do, I asked Jake, I was like, what do we do? Because I didn't really know anything about the ad stuff yet. I was still learning that.
12:09 Speaker 00 And he said, well, he said, the problem is cost per acquisition. He wants his proven cost per acquisition to stay at $125. He added it. Um, and and so as well, how do we know where his leads are coming from and all that? And video power at the time didn't know a whole lot about tracking conversions other than direct conversions because why? Nobody cared as long as they could prove direct conversion ROI at a seven to one return. Like, who was going to ask? Um, and so, you know, in the Nordic track campaign we ran 32 to one return, Andrew, direct click through conversions on YouTube ads in 2013, 14, 15, somewhere in there.
12:51 Speaker 00 Uh, back before anybody clicked on a YouTube ad. Uh, and it was, it was unheard of. And so I'm studying these campaigns and I go to, I go to like a dinner with a friend of mine whose company was bought out by Adobe. And the whole night he's talking about attribution, Andrew. I was, how old are you?
13:07 Speaker 01 I'm 23.
13:09 Speaker 00 Oh, brother, I was 25. I had no idea what he was saying. I did not know what this word meant. And I had a BlackBerry. Hey, brother. I had a BlackBerry. I I couldn't. There weren't smartphones like like the ones today. So I am trying to memorize everything he is telling me attribution, there's attribution that. And I get back into my car as soon as he leaves and I go to Google, I look up attribute. It takes like two minutes, right? For the stupid thing to load. Um, and and like, what the heck is attribution? It says to attribute success to. And I was like, oh, okay, I understand that. Okay. So, okay, now now I understood the word. I went back to Jake the next day and I start talking to him and Cooper. I'm like, hey, guys.
13:52 Speaker 00 Um, so like, I learned all this stuff about attribution and I'll start lacking like the attribution scientist, you know, like the rock star now. Um, and I'm telling him like, I, you know, we gotta learn about this, but Cooper, how many people called the phone number that was on that ad and purchased a treadmill?
14:10 Speaker 00 We don't know.
14:13 Speaker 00 Are you freaking kidding me? We don't. You guys told me it was a thirty two to one return and we don't know how many people called in? I've never clicked on a YouTube ad in my life, let alone purchased. It's like, what? Uh, you know, like, like, how, how do we not track that? I'm like, okay. What if somebody watched the YouTube ad on their phone? Then decided to go to their wife and it's like, hey, we should get a treadmill. And they went on to the website on a normal computer where you typically buy things that cost more than a thousand dollars. We don't know. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Okay. What about if, uh, we saw it on the YouTube ad and then we purchased the Facebook ad? We don't know. Oh, my God.
14:55 Speaker 00 I'm like, we didn't do a thirty two to one return. We did like a three hundred to one return. But they wanted to track and the companies wanted to track direct conversions. They want to see the livable proof. And so I go back to Todd with all this theory and I'm like, oh, get that. And I asked him the dangerous question. I was a bad salesman. Um, I said, have you ever purchased a Kickstarter campaign? I got really lucky. And he said, yes, I have. Who asks that? Back then, nobody would find Kickstarter, but he had bought one. And so I said, okay, you're good. You purchased a Kickstarter campaign. Did it have a video? Explaining what the Kickstarter was, what you're, he said, yes. Okay.
15:35 Speaker 00 When you clicked on the purchase button, did you have to click on the video first?
15:42 Speaker 00 Or was the button next to the video? It said it was next to the video. Okay. Would you have purchased the Kickstarter if it didn't have a video? No.
15:57 Speaker 00 Okay, but I'm the business owner now of the Kickstarter campaign. So are you now. Let's think about this. If you didn't click on the video, how can you prove and attribute any success to that video whatsoever?
16:11 Speaker 00 You can't. So how do you know there's any value in it? Well, I know I wouldn't, I wouldn't have purchased without it, but you can't prove it.
16:22 Speaker 00 So here's the challenge with your campaign right now for YouTube ads. You're measuring your cost per acquisition based on direct provable conversions. And you're limiting your reach to at $120, $25 per cost per acquisition. Unless you lower your cost per acquisition, we can't scale your ad campaign because we're limited on how many people we can reach at this level.
16:44 Speaker 00 And so you have to factor in for yourself. How much are you going to lower your cost per acquisition based on an arbitrary attribution that you can't see? So, well, what do I do? And I said, that's not my call. That's your call. You're the business owner.
17:01 Speaker 00 So he lowered it to 75 from $125. And then within two years, he had over 40 locations. So I don't know how much those two correlate. It's not fair, right? To just look at that one thing, but I will say 100% that the attribution, direct attribution was strangling his business model and was keeping him from being able to really understand his brand growth. And it doesn't mean it's bad, which means we have to be more careful. And if the problem is for you and me as growth experts who help businesses with growth, Andrew, is our job is often directly tied to our direct conversion. Why? Because we get into bed with people who are transactional in nature, who pretend to be transformational.
17:46 Speaker 00 But we have to do a better job too, is why Stuart is saying, you know what? Maybe I can train these entrepreneurs to be a little bit less Grant Cardone-like. Maybe I can train them to be a little bit more open, a little bit more friendly, a little bit more transformational, a little bit more dedicated to principles like Ray Dalio. A little bit more dedicated to seeing that, you know what, I don't have to have hardcore evidence. I can use faith. I don't have to use tactics nonstop. I can use my, I can combine my tactics with the principles, with the virtues. And by doing so, I can unlock even new levels of growth. And most of the greatest companies that I've worked with and seen have been able to balance that because they have some rock star like you,
18:27 Speaker 00 who understands the value of the tactics, but also has the emotional intelligence to develop the leadership skills. And say, you know what, let's, let's combine these elements for growth. And that's again, that's what, that's why you remind me a lot of Stephen Bartlett. So I believe Stephen Bartlett does a great job of combining both that, the tactical strategies.
18:45 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:45 Speaker 00 Along with the human intentionality of, of caring for others.
18:51 Speaker 01 Because unfortunately, you, in, in the game that all these entrepreneurs play, that's just the rules. You have to use the tactics at some point. Now, you don't have to. You can go ahead and not use them, but the amount of.
19:03 Speaker 00 Be unwise too, to do that, right? It's like, it's like saying, you know what, a tactic, telling somebody you love them that I love you. That's a tactic. You learn that, you know, as, as, as you grow up, but saying thank you is a tactic, saying you're welcome, or it's my honor, what a pleasure. Um, you know, it was, those are all tactics, but can we use them authentically and with intentionality of, of doing good? I think that's the ultimate.
19:28 Speaker 01 And that's the perfect example of Stephen. He will use the tactics, his marketing background to get the people in. But then once they're in, they don't feel like they got the rug pulled over their face. They're like, oh, I love this. I'm glad that I clicked on this video. And that's exactly what I want to do is use those tactics, use my marketing. But then get someone to a place where they feel like I'm glad that I got here.
19:53 Speaker 00 I hope you're able to use all that we talked about with as much value for your life as I'm going to be able to use for mine. Um, I'd love to release this as an episode. I think it would be awesome. Um, but however, I'd like your, you know, your input on that. You're welcome to, um, to suggest any edits for it as well. Um, or we can just record again, um, whatever you want to do.
20:16 Speaker 01 I am down to do whatever you need to. You're the expert in this field. And so I'm going to trust your judgment and roll with whatever call that you make.
20:26 Speaker 00 Hey, that's fantastic, man. Then my, my definition of an expert comes from Matt Cuts, the Search Director of Google, who, uh, who taught us as a Y Combinator company, not my company now, but my first startup. True sign of an expert is not somebody knows it all. It's a person who's willing to go get the answer. So I'll discuss it with the PR team. Cause they'll guide me. Yeah, right. And then also.
20:49 Speaker 01 Beautiful.
20:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, Matt Cuts. I don't, I don't get to take credit for that, but it, it, it freed me up because I was that non diploma, non college, you know, dropout that had to figure things out by doing what? Taking jobs just like you. Um, and I took some jobs, became an integrator before I knew what an integrator was. Put as many hats on as I could to build up some experience, um, learn some things about growth, filling every different position that I could. Um, and, uh, it's not the path that I, I recommend for most people. Um, you know, there's, there's lots of things that, that can be done to
21:25 Speaker 00 make the path even more enjoyable and more stable in the process. But that's also where they can turn to people like you, um, who have figured out things a little bit faster than I did along that way. And Vision Pros, all be listening in. Again, this is me and Andrew going heart to heart, like y'all aren't even there. Um, you know, and, and that's really one of the best things we could have done for our conversation is develop each other. You guys can say, how does this apply to my life? What can I plan? If you don't know how to do that, just give this episode to chat GPT and say, hey, help me apply this to my life. It's so cool how well it can open things up for you. And Andrew, I'll leave, I'll leave us on this.
22:05 Speaker 00 Any final, um, fortune cookie ideas, last words that you'd like to share with the audience? If this is the last time we happen to meet.
22:22 Speaker 01 You're not insane. You're determined. So don't let anyone shake that from you.
22:29 Speaker 01 And always continue to learn.
22:32 Speaker 01 Cause the minute you stop learning. The minute you let people dictate how you should think. Is the minute that you become.
22:43 Speaker 01 Their little robot. And you get controlled by them.
22:48 Speaker 01 And not everyone has the. Ambition and the gumption that you do.
22:56 Speaker 00 Huge, huge, and I'll, I'll double down on that and say in visionaries. And that nobody else has what you have to offer. They just can't offer it in the way that you do. Other people will offer what they can, but we got eight billion people to help in this world. So I hope Andrew and I did a great job today of inspiring you to pursue your vision. And hopefully we'll see you soon. There's a button in the top right corner. It says be our guest, come and join us and we'll see you on the next episode. Take care, everybody. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show. And thank you for giving us your time and attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.
Previous Joy, Purpose & Inner Peace: The Joy Molecule with Larry Kesslin Next Scale Your Business with AI Marketing: Raw Vision Talk with Andrew Coleman Session 2 Page updated November 13, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
