02 What Became of Jack? | The breakup

The day he vanished, Jack moved his stuff out of Carlee's place. They'd just broken up. Carlee hasn't spoken publicly about what led up to that day or why she called police twice in the days before Jack disappeared — until now. She thinks Jack's disappearance is suspicious, but tells ABC journalist Rob Burgin how speculation, rumours and aggression have flooded the vacuum of information around what happened to Jack.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What would you do if someone you loved vanished and you discover the person she's been living with isn't who they said they were? I'm Dominique Baynes, host of Expanse, The Nan Up Four.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Is he, you know, a murderer?

• 0:13Speaker 02

  A self-styled cult leader.

• 0:15Speaker 03

  It's just not now in the emptiness really, that just kills you.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  This is the bizarre story of The Nan Up Four. Binge all episodes now. Search Expanse on ABC Listen and iView.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

• 0:36Speaker 04

  Just before we start, this episode contains some strong language.

• 0:41Speaker 05

  In the weeks after Jack disappeared, the police search had a kind of stop-start quality to it. To begin with, it was all go-go-go.

• 0:50Speaker 06

  The search operation was extended yesterday to include police on foot, motorbikes, police divers, SES, drones and remote area tracking personnel.

• 1:00Speaker 05

  Then it would just sort of slow down for a bit. That was until the strange clues started appearing. The discovery of Jack's shoes, his hat, the wallet and credit card, they sparked interest. And then the search would kick off again with new energy and the whole community would get involved. There's definitely residents out there all searching their own properties. Everyone's trying to help where they can. But then things would die down again, until eventually, as the weeks turned into months and there were no more signs of Jack or any of his belongings, the searches just kind of petered out.

• 1:35Speaker 06

  The police actively won't search anymore. They only search for about a week after they'll find Jack's belongings and then that ceases and then that's it really. You know, there's a search going on in the background with people, but the actual active search stops.

• 1:52Speaker 05

  Jack's parents were having to face the increasing likelihood that Jack was no longer alive.

• 1:59Speaker 05

  Three months after he disappears, the festive season rolls around. And even though the official search is over, the family are still at it.

• 2:07Speaker 07

  Tell us what you plan to do this Christmas time, Kelly.

• 2:11Speaker 06

  Uh, well, we're just searching as usual. Christmas for us uh will be so different without Jack, so we won't be celebrating Christmas. Um, but um, we're just searching all the time for him still in that vicinity and outer areas as the days go by, because we believe Jack is lost in the bush.

• 2:32Speaker 06

  Or if that is not the case, he may have gone on the highway. And uh, you know, gotten in a car. We just don't know what has happened, actually. It's terrible.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  I mean, one possibility was he'd just got lost. And somehow, in all of that searching of the bush, the waterways, everyone had just managed to miss his body. But as time went by, his parents became less and less convinced that Jack had just lost his way. And they became more suspicious.

• 3:05Speaker 06

  It's a nightmare. I wake up and it's not waking up. It's just, my God, another nightmare. Another day.

• 3:12Speaker 05

  The strange pattern of his discarded belongings kept nagging at them and made them feel like there was more to that night. More people who might have seen Jack after he disappeared at Fix Crossing. But who would he have seen and where would he have gone? And are there any indications that he could have come to harm? This episode, I investigate Jack's life for clues as to what could have gone wrong and who else he might have seen that night at Fix Crossing. And I look for the people closest to him, including his ex-partner, who's never spoken publicly and in detail about what she knows of Jack's final movements in the week that he disappeared.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  I'm Rob Burgin and this is What Became of Jack, the latest season of Unravel.

• 4:08Speaker 05

  I reckon my best hope of getting answers is to rewind the clock and investigate what happened in the lead up to the moment he disappeared. But before I even get there, I just need to know more about Jack's background, about what makes him tick as a person. I'm just going to bring the microphone closer to you. I think the more we can close that gap there, the better. This is actually the first time I've met Jack's dad, Ross McLennan, face to face. On the phone, he can be a bit abrasive, but now that I'm meeting him in person, he's charismatic and has a more calm demeanour about him. Yeah, if you just pivot it straight towards your mouth here, that's it. Perfect. It's about six months after Jack disappeared. Ross usually lives in Tasmania, but he's

• 4:53Speaker 05

  been jetting back and forth to Queensland to support Jack's mum Kelly and to see if he can push this investigation forward.

• 5:02Speaker 05

  Well, I might, we'll go back to the start. I'm really interested in, I think, like a lot of people, we're going to have an affection for Jack throughout this. What was it like when Jack came into your life as a baby?

• 5:17Speaker 07

  He was actually born on Father's Day, which was an amazing thing. It was such a gift to have this little fellow come into the world on such a wonderful day. And he was my mate. He was my best friend. He was my son. And I miss him terribly.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  Ross tells me Jack was an easygoing kid and he seemed to cope pretty well when Ross and Jack's mum Kelly broke up. Ross says after he and Kelly separated, they tried really hard to put their differences aside and to put Jack first.

• 5:56Speaker 07

  People thought we were still together. We were that amicable, Jack's mother and I, but we did it for our son. And it wasn't easy for either of us. But we got there with it and we still immersed him with love and positivity. We hope we did anyway.

• 6:12Speaker 05

  Jack wasn't particularly academic at school and I've spoken to a few people who say he was more of an outsider. The impression I get is that he had a handful of close mates, but at times he struggled to find his place. And sometimes he acted up to try and fit in. But Ross says when Jack got to high school, he fell in love with fitness and it gave him a new kind of purpose.

• 6:38Speaker 07

  When I introduced Jack to the weights, to the fitness side of things, when he was only about fifteen, he took on just with both hands and it went from there. It was just magnificent. The boxing was a huge part of his life. I, we had a, I've got a bag still. It's quite a heavy bag too, but Jack would turn up and he would bounce that thing around. He knew how to hit and I was just gobsmacked, you know, with all that hip and twist motion coming off the back foot. All that was just very impressive to watch.

• 7:15Speaker 05

  As Jack got older, he became fascinated with self-improvement. He spent hours on YouTube watching videos about fitness and wellness.

• 7:23Speaker 07

  Whether it be yoga or the dietary side of it or the ice baths, you know, that was a big thing for him for a while. Having those ice baths and the benefits of it, the meditation. He was always trying to better himself.

• 7:40Speaker 05

  When Jack eventually finished school, he got a job as a personal trainer.

• 7:44Speaker 07

  The fitness industry was something he just loved to pieces, but it was very competitive, very competitive.

• 7:52Speaker 05

  It wasn't easy to get clients and the pay wasn't always great.

• 7:56Speaker 07

  It wasn't as lucrative as he thought, you know, and even though the passion was there.

• 8:04Speaker 05

  Then about eighteen months before Jack disappeared, he started a new relationship. The girl's name was Carly and she used to be in the year below him at high school. Even though Ross lives a fair way away in Tasmania, he kept in regular contact with Jack and his mum Kelly over the phone.

• 8:21Speaker 07

  Jack's mum said, oh, Jack's met a girl named Carly and I went, cool. And she said, oh, well, I don't particularly get on with her, Ross. I find her a little bit shut off. And I said, Well, it's Jack sees the good in her, she sees the good in Jack, let them do their thing.

• 8:38Speaker 05

  Ross says Jack started to change after he met Carly.

• 8:41Speaker 07

  Um. Jack would ring me after work, driving home, you know, we'd just always be on the blower together and and I noticed changes in him, positive changes. He was starting to dress differently. I was looking at his photos and stuff and just thought, oh, wow, he's actually, you know, and it's all part of being in that relationship. I noticed they were going out a lot into Brisbane and doing stuff. He was doing things that she enjoyed. She's into lantern, you know, like Chinese lanterns and things, but he found a a craft course where it's a day thing where you make your own and he did it with her. And she was entertaining his interest. She took him to the V eight supercar track

• 9:22Speaker 07

  and was able to give him an hour's drive around with a race driver and they were living life. And I was all for it.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  Then around July of twenty twenty four, a few months before he vanished, Jack scaled his fitness work right back and he got a full-time job in construction. It paid better and it gave him the promise of a more stable career going forward.

• 9:46Speaker 07

  He's maturing a lot. I don't think it might have happened if it wasn't for going out with Carly because she helped set him on the path of that career.

• 9:58Speaker 05

  But by the time Jack disappeared just months later, he was twenty seven years old and he and Carly were no longer together. So what happened? Ross noticed the first real signs of trouble when the couple came to visit him in Tasmania. The trip started out well.

• 10:15Speaker 07

  When he came down to Tasmania for the first time, he'd bought his own airfare.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  Ross was blown away. He felt like his son had really grown up.

• 10:24Speaker 07

  He'd hired his own rental car. I was not involved in any way of paying for it. And I was just thought, wow, wow, he's come of age, he's he's he's landed on his feet now and I hugged Carly, I thought. She'd just done wonders, you know. I had lots of questions for her, just about her family and, you know, and jobs and whatnot. And she was quite an introverted person and that's all right, you know. Um, but she was pretty much yes and no answers. There wasn't a lot of elaboration. And once again, um, Jack saw the good in her.

• 10:57Speaker 05

  Ross notices some tension between Jack and Carly, but he doesn't think much of it. And he just shakes it off as a normal couple bickering. That's up until the trip is almost over.

• 11:08Speaker 07

  They'd had a tiff and she was going at the door with a suitcase at like 11 o'clock at night. I thought, what?

• 11:14Speaker 05

  Jack tells Ross Carly wants to go and stay in a hotel.

• 11:18Speaker 07

  I said, she's not going to get one around here at this hour. So he said, oh dad, I'll talk her back in. And he did. And they kind of woke up fine and she was all right in the morning. And they jumped in their car, went to the airport and flew back home.

• 11:32Speaker 05

  But things weren't fine and they hadn't been for a while. I found posts on social media from months before this that showed Jack was looking to move out of the house he shared with Carly. He'd been talking to his workmates about whether he should stay in the relationship. And more than once, he'd gone to his mum's place after an argument with Carly. When Jack and Carly get back to Queensland, they keep arguing. The arguing reaches this kind of ugly climax. Exactly what happens isn't clear, but the police are called. When I heard about the police being called, I was genuinely shocked.

• 12:15Speaker 05

  I'd been on this story for months and no one had mentioned a thing about it. It felt like this was a significant piece of information. I asked Jack's mum Kelly if she could fill me in. He just said Carly's called the police on me tonight and that's, that's it then. You know, he was really embarrassed by that. Kelly says instead of staying the night at home with Carly, Jack comes back to her house and he opens up about the relationship. And I said, did it get physical? Did anything happen? Why are the police called? And he said, no, they've had a verbal argument and Carly's called the police. And he left, he wasn't kicked out, he just left. But he said that was enough, that that's it now, you know, that that's too much.

• 12:59Speaker 05

  I'll tell you more about that argument and the cops being called later. But for now, let's stick with Jack and his mum. In this conversation, she says Jack is frank with her about the fact that the relationship is in trouble. He told me himself that things haven't been real good, mum.

• 13:17Speaker 05

  And we've been in separate bedrooms and he said we're just not suited, you know. And he was sounding authentic that I'm getting all my stuff because Carly's working tomorrow. I'm going to go over and get my stuff washers at work.

• 13:34Speaker 05

  I just knew that with the police being called, to me, that was enough. That was enough that you shouldn't be having these hard issues in the first year. Should be the fun times because there's going to be harder times ahead when you involve children perhaps and other things. So these should be the glowing days.

• 13:57Speaker 05

  One of the most common theories that people come up with to explain Jack's disappearance is that maybe he wasn't a bad state because of his relationship breakdown. Maybe even so low that he was feeling suicidal. I'm told the police also asked questions about his state of mind early on. And I know after some of the breakups I went through in my mid twenties, it can feel like the world's been tipped on its head and it can be hard to make sense of anything. Kelly was one of the last people to speak with Jack. She spoke with him on the phone about nine P M. And for her, there were no alarm bells ringing at that time. He didn't sound depressed, but he sounded a bit upset because, you know, as you would be.

• 14:40Speaker 05

  But he didn't sound like it's the end of my world. I would have picked up on that. But a mum sometimes doesn't know everything that's going on in her son's life. That moment when your first major relationship breaks down, it can feel like a moment of free fall where anything can happen. Was he depressed? Was he bitter? If he was feeling angry or wild because of what was going on in his private life, maybe he'd pissed the wrong person off or taken a risk that he wouldn't normally take. I wanted to test this all out with other people who knew Jack well.

• 15:12Speaker 07

  I would consider Jack to be a, you know, a good friend. Like I trusted him and like I still do trust him.

• 15:18Speaker 05

  Trent and Jack had a pretty close relationship, especially considering that Trent was actually his boss as well as his landlord. Trent had taken Jack on as a labourer and when Jack and Carly were looking for a place to live, Trent offered them a house that he had up for rent.

• 15:33Speaker 07

  So the age gap between me and Jack was 10 years. So we're in two completely different stages of our life.

• 15:40Speaker 05

  But Trent saw himself in Jack as if they were kind of the same, just years apart in life experience.

• 15:46Speaker 07

  So that's why I got along with him quite well.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  Trent remembers speaking with Jack after one of the big fights that he had with Carly. It was in the week before Jack disappeared.

• 15:57Speaker 07

  It sounded pretty ugly. Um, I don't know the full story. All that Jack said is, yeah, they had a big argument and they were blue and, and yeah, he didn't really say a lot. All he said he was just moving out. Um, basically straight away.

• 16:13Speaker 05

  How would you describe his mindset the last times that you saw him?

• 16:17Speaker 07

  Just normal Jack. They mentioned back in the day, like when I'd done interviews with the police and stuff like, you know, suicidal part. And I said, no, like the complete opposite. Like he was nowhere near that sort of stuff. Like, he was just happy. Like even though, you know, he was at the end of his relationship, you know, he was not sad about it. He was just ready to move on. Um, there was no, no, you know, you see some people that end a relationship. They think their life's about to end, but he was far from that.

• 16:50Speaker 05

  Jack's next movements are crucial to understanding his headspace on the night that he disappeared. And I've spent quite the amount of time trying to piece them together.

• 17:01Speaker 05

  From what I know, on the last day that Jack was seen, the Friday, he woke up late at his mum's house. He texted with Trent and asked about the possibility of staying the night in the granny flat at Trent's. Then around lunchtime, Jack went to the Mergan Police Station. When I learnt this, I had a million questions. I mean, on the very day that he disappears, he's gone to the police station? I felt surely this has something to do with his disappearance. But when I spoke to police about it, they wouldn't elaborate and they just said it was a private matter.

• 17:40Speaker 05

  I asked Trent about it too, and he said as far as he knew, it was actually something relatively minor.

• 17:46Speaker 07

  The way he explained it to me, that why he went to the police the next day was just to basically see what right he had to the house because his name was still on the lease. Because he still wanted to stay there because he couldn't afford to go anywhere else. And the way he explained to me, he didn't want to really stay with his mother. I don't really know why. I'm pretty sure even on the Friday, he asked me, is it all right if I bring some of my stuff over and put it in the granny flat? And I said, yeah, that's fine. And I still expected him to see him on the Friday night, but he just never rocked up.

• 18:22Speaker 05

  Jack went back to the house he shared with Carly to get all of his things and he drove off with his car chock full of stuff. But instead of going to Trent's place, he went out drinking with his friend Chris at Fix Crossing. I discovered later that Jack and Carly were actually in regular contact throughout that night over text messages and phone calls. It means that even though they never saw each other that Friday, Carly was likely one of the very last people to have heard from Jack.

• 18:55Speaker 05

  What I want to know is, what were Jack and Carly texting about that night?

• 19:01Speaker 05

  Two months after Jack's disappearance, the absence of any concrete answers to what happened to him, it's starting to cause trouble. In the information void that's opened up, people are saying some awful things about Carly. They call her names, they post photos of her taken while she's out shopping, and I've seen some bizarre, totally false theories about a relationship with Jack and how she might have been involved in his disappearance.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  The more this unfounded shitstorm swirls around Jack's family and Carly, the less likely it is that I think Carly's going to talk to a journalist like me. I do reach out to her, but sometimes she sees my messages and ignores them. Sometimes, I'm not sure she sees them at all. But then occasionally, she does reply.

• 19:54Speaker 05

  So to my complete surprise, an email came through from Carly Beatham, Jack's ex-girlfriend, last week. And she just wrote in an email out of nowhere, after nine months of trying to get in touch, she just writes here, "Hello, I'd be open to do an interview, but only an interview that contains myself. I don't wish for anyone else to be involved. Thank you." So, short and sweet, and obviously, straight away, I thought, oh, this is a major breakthrough. And then unfortunately, I've messaged Carly a couple of times since in email and text, and I just got one text back that said, "I've decided I no longer wish

• 20:34Speaker 05

  to talk." So, I'm kind of torn on that. Perhaps a little bit more correspondence back and forwards, and we can have this conversation. After that, there's another four months of silence. But then eventually, more than a year after Jack disappeared, and after more than a year of back and forth with Carly, she contacts me to say she's ready to talk. I quickly pack a bag, and I drive the three hours from my place on the Sunshine Coast, all the way back out to the towns around Fix Crossing, so I can finally speak with her face to face.

• 21:12Speaker 05

  If you can pop. Yeah, that's, that's right. We sit down in the lounge room at a mum's place, but Carly is really quiet while I set up. Okay, one, two, three. One, two, three. There's no small talk and when she sits down in this big armchair opposite me, she leans back away from me.

• 21:33Speaker 07

  Um, hi, I'm Carly Beatham. I'm twenty seven years old and I'm from Gomari, born in Wondai.

• 21:40Speaker 05

  Carly spent basically her whole life in the group of small towns around Fix Crossing. If you follow the main highway, you go through Gomari, Mergon, Fix Crossing, then Wondai, and on to the biggest town in the region, Kingaroy, which is where Carly's mum lives, where we're sitting right now. Carly's invited me here, but she seems cautious. That is, until we start the interview. Tell me about like how you perceive yourself, because I think that's been probably one of the issues, isn't it? People have made up this idea of who you are.

• 22:14Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 22:14Speaker 05

  But who are you to yourself?

• 22:17Speaker 07

  Um, I guess like, I'm honest, like, I'm not someone who beats around the bush. Like, I'll tell you straight, even if it's not probably the nicest thing, um, very strong minded. But yeah, I think me being me and what I've had to go through, um, yeah, it's made me stronger.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  Talk to me about why you've decided to speak now.

• 22:47Speaker 07

  Um, I guess in a way like,

• 22:53Speaker 07

  I don't know, because I guess you have everyone who's like talking, saying like, oh, you know, she should speak. And I don't know, you kind of just get to the point where you're just like, right, oh, I'll just talk if that's what you just want, even though you might not like what I have to say, but at least then you can't come at me for not talking.

• 23:11Speaker 05

  Carly says a relationship with Jack started well.

• 23:14Speaker 07

  He was very caring, um, buying flowers or doing picnics up on the hill or stuff like that. He'd cook and he'd clean and he'd do it without not having to be asked. We did things, we played ball games, we did craft, we did quadting, we played Nerf guns, we did water ball, water balloon fights, like, we did everything. Impossible. It was always like, yeah, it's just a best friend.

• 23:40Speaker 05

  It's important to say that this is Carly's recollection of the relationship. And although I'd love to hear Jack's memories of this, obviously I don't have that opportunity. Carly says the two of them spent almost all of their free time together. And they liked living on their isolated property, having their own space, doing their own thing. But pretty soon, they were arguing. They were arguing about small things, but these arguments often escalated quickly.

• 24:08Speaker 07

  So when me and Jack would argue, um, he would get dressed up and he would head out to the pub. And he'd not answer the phone, he'd go out and then it'd end up being like, you know, me having to call him a million times and then finally he'd get on the phone and then we'd be arguing and then all of a sudden he'd come home. But yeah, he'd do it because he knew he'd get her eyes. But I think that was just, he didn't know how to deal with emotions. Like I think it, when it come to his emotions, he didn't know how to handle them without, you know, getting angry.

• 24:49Speaker 05

  I asked Carly what happened during the argument when the police were called. And she said that actually had two big arguments in the days before he disappeared. The first one, on the Tuesday, was even more heated than usual, and it left her shaken.

• 25:04Speaker 07

  Jack went to leave with my car because his car wasn't, um, working. And I said, you're not taking my car. And he said, well, I am going to gym. So I called the cops and told them, you know, he's taking my car, ra-di-da-da. Next minute, he's driven back into the garage and got out and he's grabbing his things. And I said, well, I'm going, like, I'm going out, I'm going to go for a drive. And Jack was like, no, you're not going because I need you to drop me off. I need you to take me somewhere. And I said, well, no, you can drive your own car. And then, yeah, it got to the point where it was aggressive, like he was slamming the door, not letting me out. It was like when we argued.

• 25:45Speaker 06

  It was like, who could be the biggest asshole, really?

• 25:49Speaker 05

  To use a common phrase, Jack's car was a bit of a shit box. It was unreliable and on this day, it needed a jump start. So in Jack's eyes, if Carly drove off in her car, he'd be trapped at the house. Carly says this situation enraged him. She says he got so angry that he did things he's never done before. He didn't hit Carly, but she was starting to worry about her physical safety.

• 26:15Speaker 06

  He grabbed my arm and pulled me back and slammed the door shut and went, you're not going anywhere. And took my keys. It was just him grabbing my arm and pulling me back so I wasn't going out the door. So I kind of just stayed, went about doing my thing. You know, he's walking around the house, smoking a cigarette. Um, out of spite, like he knew it was pissing me off.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  Both of them decided to stay at the house, even though the argument was threatening to boil over at any minute.

• 26:44Speaker 06

  I was on the ladder cleaning, just trying to do my own thing. And he's grabbed the ladder and kind of pulled it. As if like trying to get me to fall off. But yeah, it got to the point where he was just, I don't know, just completely switched. Like he's never been to the point where he was like grabbing me and not letting me out. And, you know, I was on my own with this hundred kilo man who was raging and seeing red.

• 27:17Speaker 05

  Jack went outside, got some jumper leads and got his car going.

• 27:21Speaker 06

  He finally just grabbed all his things, went and got in the car, in his car and just drove off.

• 27:28Speaker 05

  Carly says police eventually rocked up to the house about four hours later, but Jack had already gone.

• 27:34Speaker 06

  So the Tuesday was really, really bad. But then all of a sudden, then that night we made up and Wednesday we had a really good day. We were perfect, you know, good as.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  Then on the Thursday night, the night before Jack disappeared, Carly and Jack had another argument. This time Carly says she'd had enough and she called the police again.

• 28:04Speaker 05

  I'd been pretty concerned about this side of Jack. I knew the police had been called on Thursday, but I didn't know the details of that huge fight on the Tuesday, or that police had been called then too. I asked Queensland Police if they could provide more details about these calls, but they declined to give any more information. Either way, the calls suggest to me that Carly was seriously worried about Jack's behaviour, and I can completely understand why.

• 28:32Speaker 05

  As a kid, I witnessed some pretty concerning violence against women. It's definitely left its mark on me and really shaped my attitudes towards this kind of thing. So, part of me thinks if Jack has a history of doing this, if he's that kind of guy, I really don't have to be the one to tell his story. But I've rung around and checked, and there's no indication that he has done this kind of stuff before. Carly also told me herself that Jack had never been this intense. She also says that when she called the cops, everything shifted.

• 29:10Speaker 07

  The thing is with Jack, as soon as I called the cops, his whole energy changed, his whole personality, he like clicked in and went, "Okay, like, this is serious." So as soon as I did that and he knew that I was calling them, he kind of clicked and went righto and got out.

• 29:27Speaker 05

  Jack left to stay at his mum's house. This seems to be the moment that both of them realised the relationship was pretty much done. Carly says that on the Friday that Jack disappeared, she woke up and he hadn't come back. She had no idea what he was up to.

• 29:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, I had literally thought, you know, he's probably at trance, where he said he was going to be living, or he said his mum's doing something. So we don't speak at all. All till late afternoon. And I was messaging about, are you going to come get the rest of your stuff? Just broke out to an argument.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  But by Friday evening, the heat of the argument had mostly gone. And they started texting again. Carly tells me she still has the last text that she sent to Jack. And she starts to read them out to me.

• 30:20Speaker 07

  So the first message we did on Friday was at three thirty.

• 30:25Speaker 05

  For a while, they're just talking logistics about him getting the rest of his stuff from the house.

• 30:29Speaker 07

  He was basically saying, not sure, won't be able to do it till Sunday.

• 30:34Speaker 05

  Then Carly has a go at trying to end the relationship with Jack on a better note.

• 30:38Speaker 07

  I sent a big message about saying, like, I'm sorry that it's got to this. I never thought it would get this bad or end like this. I really want us to end on civil and good terms, even though the last few days have been bad. And we've had a lot of arguments and bad moments. I do love all the memories we have made together.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  At around the same time Carly sends this message, Jack's hanging out with his mate at Fix Crossing. Later, at six P M, Jack and Carly talk on the phone briefly and they argue again. Then they send some short texts back and forth.

• 31:12Speaker 07

  So then at eight fifteen, I said, have you gotten the cough? Because I was sick and he goes, no, you're still sick. And he goes, that's no good, you should rest. Which is weird because Jack doesn't say you should rest. It's, you know, he doesn't say that kind of stuff.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  At eight fifty P M, he replies again. This text is sent only about an hour before he disappears.

• 31:38Speaker 07

  He said, well, make sure you have a good sleep in and drink water.

• 31:42Speaker 07

  Which was also weird because Jack doesn't, like, Jack's caring, but he's not caring in the sense of saying those kind of things. Then at nine forty nine, I said, did you apply for that room? He goes, yeah, I did, which, you know, anyone could say. And I say, okay, that's good. Hopefully you'll hear something. I said, well, good night then. And he just said, good night. And that was our. Last message.

• 32:10Speaker 05

  To Carly, Jack's messages seem out of character. And she doesn't know what to make of them.

• 32:17Speaker 07

  I just found it odd. It was like that whole hour we went and then those weird messages that didn't sound like Jack, whatever type, were happening. And, you know, it was kind of like, well, anyone could write that.

• 32:31Speaker 05

  Carly goes to bed. Here's nothing more from Jack. And when she wakes up the next day, Saturday, the fifth of October, twenty twenty four, she shoots Jack a message, hopeful that they might be able to patch things up.

• 32:46Speaker 07

  Even though, yeah, we were arguing and we were talking about breaking up of that week, we would have got back together. Then I texted him. On the fifth, at nine forty a.m., a picture of our dog, Stella. I got no response. Straight away, I knew, like, something was not right. As soon as he didn't respond to that photo, as soon as I realised he hadn't been online for hours, as soon as I realised that he didn't pick up my phone call, I went, something's wrong.

• 33:23Speaker 05

  Before this interview with Carly, in the long period before she was ready to talk to me, I'd actively been looking everywhere for insights into Jack's relationship with Carly. I'd been searching social media, speaking to people who knew her and Jack, and a lot of what I heard was just rumour and nonsense. But there is one thing I stumbled on, which sticks with me. It's a recording of a short radio interview that Carly gave in the weeks after Jack disappeared. It comes from a time when she was actively organising the searches for him. Most people probably missed it, but in it, she talks about when she last spoke to Jack and what it's like for him to be missing.

• 34:05Speaker 05

  But it's something she said right at the end of the interview that I can't shake. And I think that's where my investigation will lead to next.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Is there anything you want the the public to know about his disappearance? Any messages out there for people who may live in the area or pass through it?

• 34:22Speaker 07

  I guess just for them to know that, you know, he was.

• 34:28Speaker 05

  I guess with someone that, you know, isn't the best person to be hanging around. In the next episode, the people Jack saw that final night and what Carly thought of them.

• 34:47Speaker 05

  If you saw anything the night Jack disappeared, if you know someone else who might have, get in touch. Unravel true crime at abc.net.au or you can call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000. This season of Unravel is intended to be listened to as a whole. If you haven't heard all the episodes, you shouldn't draw any conclusions because you haven't heard all sides of the story yet.