02 Lies in Lismore | The lies

Simone's diary reveals arguments amongst travellers, police say they're being lied to, and the investigation into who caused Simone's death begins to narrow its focus. An inquest into Simone Strobel's death is eventually held, but some key people don't attend. Years pass and fellow travellers refuse to speak to the media, but investigative journalist Richard Baker learns one of them might finally break this silence and talk to him. Credits Host and reporter: Richard BakerProducer and fact checker: Romy SherSupervising producer: Alicia BridgesSpecial thanks: Chiara Holzhaeuser; Joanne Shoebridge and everyone at ABC North CoastAdditional reporting: Cath AdamsTheme composition and additional music: Martin Peralta and Ashley CadellSound design: Tim SymondsExecutive Producers: Tim Roxburgh, Eric GeorgeHead of Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:44Speaker 06

  It's Overcast in Lismore, in a grassy area next to a road, just metres from where Simone Strobel's body was found a week earlier. Tobias Sukful and his sister Katrin Sukful walk towards a pack of journalists holding cameras and microphones. Behind them is a wire fence that's been decorated with photos of Simone. The ground along the fence is stacked with flowers, cards and other tributes left by members of the Lismore community. The news cameras are rolling as Katrin places a bunch of sunflowers, Simone's favourite, into the memorial.

• 1:23Speaker 06

  Then, the siblings turn to face the cameras, and Tobias starts to speak.

• 1:30Speaker 07

  ... a statement of the family members of Simone Strobel and Tobias Sukful, according to the assassination of Simone. The family of Simone, I and my family and all friends at home have been totally shocked about this horrible crime, which happened to our lovely and wonderful Simone.

• 1:52Speaker 06

  Tobias and Katrin are flanked by family who've flown over from Germany, once clasping a comforting hand on Katrin's shoulder as Tobias speaks.

• 2:02Speaker 07

  The mourning and pain is so hard to handle, and none of us can understand this awful act. Simone was full of love and happiness. Everybody has liked her because of her particular human qualities and her attitude about life. She always was very polite and had a smile on her lips for other persons. The last couple of months, when she travelled through Australia, she said that it was like living in paradise.

• 2:35Speaker 06

  Tobias keeps his eyes down as he reads the statement.

• 2:40Speaker 07

  She was an angel on earth, and we can't understand why Jesus took her away. Nobody can answer these questions, but everybody can see her bright shining star now.

• 2:53Speaker 06

  He appeals to the community for help.

• 2:55Speaker 07

  We please ask the people of Lismore and all the people who have been there within the last weeks to recall any suspicious behaviour of persons concerning the brutal assassination of our Simone, and to conduct the homicide squad at the Lismore Police in order to bring this bloody evil monster to justice.

• 3:26Speaker 06

  Tobias and Katrin have stayed around the Lismore area since Simone's body was found. There's been an outpouring of community support for them. But there's something the people in Lismore don't know. As Tobias pleads for help to find the evil monster who killed Simone, police are starting to wonder if it's him. I'm Richard Baker, and from Unravel, this is Lies in Lismore.

• 4:21Speaker 06

  When Simone Strobel first got to Australia, she was keeping a diary of her adventures as she travelled. At first, the diary records what seems like a happy trip. She and Tobias find themselves in an old Toyota van. They go to the beach almost every day. They drink beers, Simone sees her first kangaroo. They find jobs, only to be rained out of work for days on end. They spend a lot of time at Bunnings to fit out the van, and a lot of time calling roadside assistance to deal with its chronic unreliability. Simone draws a lot of smiley faces and love hearts.

• 5:01Speaker 06

  She writes "nice one" to remark on something that was fun or good. When the van sparks back to life, she writes "thanks, Jesus". Phone calls to mum and dad make her happy, and she's funny. When she catches her first fish, she describes herself as "the fishing queen". What shines through on every page is Simone's almost relentless positivity.

• 5:39Speaker 06

  One of my highest priorities after I started investigating this case was to message Simone's family in Germany. I hope they could tell me what they thought had happened to their daughter and help me get a better understanding of who Simone was. I managed to reach them, and we had a few email exchanges over several weeks. In the end, they didn't want to be involved. I understood and respected that decision, but I knew there were important public interest reasons to press ahead. Then, months later, toward the end of my investigation, I sent them some further questions by email.

• 6:23Speaker 06

  They responded with strong objections to some of the things I intended to cover in the podcast. Since receiving that email, I've thought long and hard about how to proceed. It's been a difficult decision to make, but we've decided there are important reasons in the public interest to go ahead with releasing the podcast. This isn't something I'd usually do. Usually, in any crime investigation, the first thing I want to do is prioritise what the victim's family wants. The reasons why we've decided to release the podcast and the reasons for the family's objections will become clear once you know more of the story.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  The family sent me a statement, but they wanted it published in full, not in part. I will read that whole statement later in the podcast once you have the information you need to make sense of it. For now, if you want to read it before you keep listening, you can find it in the notes on episode seven of this season.

• 7:32Speaker 06

  In 2005, as Simone's travels continued, she wrote in her diary about what her and Tobias did together on the trip, but she didn't say much about their relationship. When she did, it seemed to be mostly positive. If there were disagreements, they seemed to be sorted out quickly. She didn't say anything about having substantial relationship problems. That is, until February 10th, 2005, the day before she disappeared from the campsite in Lismore. It was a Thursday, and Simone and Tobias were at a place called Sandon River.

• 8:16Speaker 06

  By this point, they'd been joined by their two visitors from Germany, the ones who were staying with them at the campsite when Simone disappeared, Tobias's sister Katrin and their friend Jens Martin. The weather was miserable, and it was raining heavily. Simone says she and Katrin were stuck outside because Tobias wouldn't let them in the van. She writes about how he freaked out, and there was bad vibes between them. She even writes "fuck you". She says Tobias didn't speak a word to her all day.

• 9:02Speaker 06

  The next day, a Friday, they arrived in Lismore, and Simone wrote a single line. "Today began just as shit as yesterday had ended", and that's it. That's the last line she ever wrote in her diary. When Tobias reported Simone missing to the police, he told them they'd been getting along fine, but her journal told a different story. By the time police brought Tobias back for a second interview, three days after Simone's body was found, the homicide squad was involved. They had a copy of those last pages,

• 9:46Speaker 06

  and they were about to start questioning the rest of his story too. Just a question now, Sukful. What would you prefer me to do?

• 9:54Speaker 07

  During this interview, Mr. Shookfield, what was your first name? Tobias is okay. You hardly commit a crime, Tobias? Yeah, I've dealt with that before, actually.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  The audio quality of this police interview is rough, but I'll make sure you understand what you need to know. As we've heard, Tobias's version of events was like this. They'd been to the pub and had four light beers, then back to the caravan park. At the campsite, Tobias and his sister Catherine had started arguing. Simone got frustrated with their bickering and walked away into the night. But in the days since Tobias's first interview with police, detectives have been checking his story with lots of people who were around that night.

• 10:40Speaker 06

  It seems there are some parts of his story that aren't adding up, starting with the matter of who was arguing with who and when.

• 10:50Speaker 07

  I have been told, would have been told, that during the time that you were at the hotel,

• 10:59Speaker 07

  there was an argument between some of the people with you. What can you tell me about that? No, we're just sitting on several tables, Simone and I. We have to talk, you know, when you're traveling in a group with four people. So sometimes you need time with your girlfriend to have to speak privately.

• 11:17Speaker 06

  The tape's a little distorted here. Tobias is saying he and Simone went and sat by themselves for a while because they wanted a chance to talk away from the group.

• 11:27Speaker 07

  But we hadn't actually had an argument. We just went to another table and have to speak together. I have been told that the argument was between yourself and your sister Catherine? That we were on the campsite later in the evening. No, that may be case. I'm asking you, so you understand. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe we start the argument a little. You know, when you come in, let me, your sister come over. And I left my family six weeks, six months ago. So we talked a lot about family matters and friend matters at home. And may, I'm not sure, but maybe we start talking about family matters in the pub.

• 12:11Speaker 07

  But we had no argument. I have been told that both Simone and Catherine were crying. No, that's not. That, that, that started the wrong, Simone was, and she wasn't crying. Just some, some tears running, running from her, from her eyes out. And she was just actually happy.

• 12:33Speaker 06

  Tobias says she wasn't crying because she was upset. For the first time in his interviews with police, he acknowledges they had been arguing before they got to Lismore. He says Simone was crying tears of relief because they'd made up at the pub after their falling out the day before. The one that led to Simone writing "fuck you" in her diary.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  Tobias says he and Simone left the pub on good terms.

• 13:01Speaker 07

  We had to talk and now we have done talk. And she, and that's, that's the reason why she, she had some, some, she was crying.

• 13:09Speaker 06

  Tobias talks with his hands a lot to emphasize what he's saying. There are a few times when he has to check the meaning of an English word. Now, the detective says there's another inconsistency with his story.

• 13:23Speaker 07

  I have been told, also by people from the hotel, that you were drinking Scooters, the large drinks of the drink called VB.

• 13:36Speaker 06

  That's a full strength beer in a bigger glass.

• 13:39Speaker 07

  No, that's not right. We drank Far East though, that's for sure. And I'm absolutely sure we drank Far East.

• 13:46Speaker 06

  There's more the detective has gleaned from witnesses and CCTV.

• 13:51Speaker 07

  Were you and Simone

• 13:56Speaker 07

  having an argument at the time you left the Golan Hotel? No, it was big, the rock, the race on the Golan, and then hand in hand.

• 14:06Speaker 07

  I have seen security footage of that time. And I have seen where you have attempted to take Simone's hand. And she appears to not wish you to hold her hand. The vision that I have seen shows that you are not working, walking hand in hand. And Simone is walking some distance behind you. What do you have to say about that? When I reckon back, I think back, we walked hand in hand. I was very, very shortly together.

• 14:40Speaker 06

  As the interview carries on, the detective brings up other things he's heard from witnesses, things Tobias didn't mention in the first interview. He says police have been told the backpackers got kicked out of the pub for being too intoxicated and that at least one of them tried to take a glass of beer with them when they left.

• 15:00Speaker 07

  I have been told that you abused, to start verbally abused, said lots of words, swear words. That's, that's right. That's not. No. For not being allowed to finish your drink. No, I never, I never, I never straight, straight to him. And I called him, I give, I give him some swear words. I just, when I give him some swear words, then I turn around and I said to him, oh dickhead, you know what I mean? So, or shithead or whatever. But I'm not, was swearing with him straight away, face to face.

• 15:32Speaker 06

  There are things Tobias doesn't seem to remember very well, like whether or not he tried to go to another pub after the Golan and abused a bouncer at that place when he wasn't allowed in.

• 15:44Speaker 07

  There's a lot of, lot of things around in my head the last six days. And I'm very angished and all these things. So I have all these details in my head, you know what I mean?

• 15:54Speaker 06

  The officer asks him again about going to the other pub after the Golan. And this time Tobias concedes that maybe he did, but he can't remember. The pub is called The Metropole, but Tobias calls it The Metropolitan.

• 16:10Speaker 07

  And is there a reason that you didn't remember that earlier than this interview now?

• 16:18Speaker 07

  No, I, I, I'm very upset and all, and you know what I mean? And I get all these questions, maybe I forgot that, that we tried to get it again in The Metropolitan. I don't know.

• 16:32Speaker 07

  You say that you had been upset for six days leading up to. Yeah, and I'm still, I'm still right now under the influence of Valium. Actually, the last six days, I took, I took a lot of Valium.

• 16:42Speaker 06

  Tobias is saying he's on Valium, a drug that calms people down.

• 16:47Speaker 07

  I've seen that we'd taken Valium before Simone disappeared. Not before she disappeared, right, sir? I'm asking, so you said that you were upset, you were upset six days before Simone? No, after her disappearance.

• 17:01Speaker 06

  Tobias says he wants a break.

• 17:03Speaker 07

  It changed my words in my mouth and that's the reason why I'm in the break. I told you, I, I, I was upset at the last six days. And you say straight to me, I was upset in the last six, six days before. I was asking you to clarify that.

• 17:16Speaker 06

  At this point, the officers stop the recording and they take a break for about 20 minutes. When things start again, Tobias jumps in before police can ask another question.

• 17:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I have something to say right now.

• 17:32Speaker 07

  If you asked me these questions all before, the little details on the first interview, maybe I would remember we went back to The Metropolitan. But now I've been six days, I go six days through my hair and I can't, I get all the details not together. You know what I mean? So that is the reason, that is the reason why I called the newspaper.

• 17:53Speaker 06

  It's a bit hard to hear, but he's saying he might have remembered more details if the police had asked him these questions earlier. He says that's why he called the Northern Star newspaper in Lismore and called the police kindergarten cops after Simone's body was found, because he thought the police should have done more at the start.

• 18:13Speaker 07

  I understand what you say about that. And as you could well imagine, not all of the information of which I am now asking you questions was known to us immediately the time you interviewed. Yeah. Things that come to our attention which we then can come back to you. Do you understand what I'm saying? I understand what you mean. So I'd like to, I understand what you're saying. I'm just, I'm just trying to help this, this heavy monster. But you know what, I know, I, I don't actually, you know, maybe we've, we've been back to The Metropolitan, but I don't know it yet. You know, maybe I, I would, I wouldn't know on the five days ago. Okay, okay, my job, Detective Miller's job with me

• 18:58Speaker 07

  is to find out all those things. And we need to speak with yourself and ask those questions. And that's what we're here for today. But please don't be so aggressive with your voice. If you believe my voice is aggressive. Yeah, you're very aggressive sometimes. That is not intended. It will be attempted by me. Fortunately, sometimes my voice might not come across how I think it should. And you can tell it differently to me. Do you understand this? Yeah, I understand your point.

• 19:28Speaker 06

  The detective returns to his line of questioning, drilling down on more detail about the events of that night. He asks again if anyone in the group was using drugs, and Tobias says no. Then the detectives bring up something they haven't talked about yet.

• 19:46Speaker 07

  Have you seen Simone's diary since Simone went missing? Yeah, for sure. Have you read the diary? Yeah, the last two days, maybe I, maybe I found some from the record. Get to the police for further information as you went. Was there anything in those pages that told you something about how she was feeling? That's actually, I told you that 10 nights before, on Thursday, we had this bad day. There's the same written in my day, that was a fucking day, that a lot of rain, and we had a bad vibration, the whole group was not good, and that's all.

• 20:28Speaker 06

  Police seemed concerned that this is different to the story they heard in the first interview. After this latest round of questioning, it seems two versions of Simone's last night have emerged. There's the first version that Tobias has told police, where he and Simone are getting along well and falling deeper and deeper in love. That night, they have some light beers, but no one's drunk. And after a minor argument between Tobias and his sister, Simone gets frustrated and walks off.

• 21:02Speaker 06

  And then there's the version that police say they're getting from witnesses and video footage, one where the mood in the group is at rock bottom. Katrin and Simone have been crying at the pub. Tobias and Simone aren't getting along, and they're all drunk. Tobias abuses bouncers and is denied entry to another pub. At the campsite, there's a heated argument in the group, and Simone leaves. As the interview draws to a close, Tobias seems frustrated. The detectives continue to probe about small details, but then suddenly round on Tobias with a huge question.

• 21:42Speaker 07

  Toby, I have one last question I have to ask you. Toby, did you kill Simone Strobel? No, never. Why should I kill my girlfriend? What is that for a fucking question? I have to ask a question, this is an investigation. You have answered the question? So you lied before. You say I'm not under suspicion, and that is right now a question for suspicion? No, I asked you a question. Did you have answered that question? I appreciate your insight to that question. You put me right now in suspicion when you asked before I'm not under suspicion.

• 22:31Speaker 06

  The Australian police might have been suspicious of Tobias, but there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with a crime. He was free to go home. And nine days after that heated interview, he flew back to Germany.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  At that time, he still, as far as I was aware, was a person of interest. Person of interest is somebody that, for whatever various, one or various reasons, you've got to try and eliminate or confirm is the offender.

• 23:00Speaker 06

  Wayne Hayes is a retired detective inspector with the New South Wales Police Force. In 2005, he was on the homicide squad, and his team had been called in after Simone's body was found.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  I just remember two senior councillors coming up with me, and then commenced our inquiries assisting the locals, because I think they basically outranked all the detectives in that area at the time. There had to be a negotiation about who was going to do it.

• 23:26Speaker 06

  Wayne says the homicide squad were there to act as advisers to the local police in Lismore. It was also his job to liaise with Simone's family and with the police in Germany. They'd started their own investigation, because Simone was a German national who'd died in suspicious circumstances overseas.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  The main person was from the Wurzburg Police, which was the local town, if I can use that term for where the family was from.

• 23:57Speaker 06

  Australian police had already interviewed Tobias twice. Now, the German police would have their chance. They interviewed him twice, three months apart, and the second time, what he said changed everything. Tobias admitted to German police that he'd been lying. He downplayed how much they'd had to drink the night Simone disappeared. He said Simone was drunk, and that he'd also smoked marijuana that night. He admitted that when Simone was crying at the pub, it was out of frustration at the problems they'd been having over the last couple of days. He said he and Simone were arguing back at the campsite when she walked away.

• 24:42Speaker 06

  At that point, Tobias's lawyer stepped in and advised his client not to answer any more questions for the time being.

• 24:50Speaker 06

  Back in Australia, Wayne Hayes heard about Tobias's admissions.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  You're supposed to tell the truth, because not only does it just raise that little bit of suspicion about why you're lying, why are you lying, what else have you not told us or downplayed about this matter?

• 25:09Speaker 06

  German police seemed to have taken the lies seriously as well, because after he owned up to them, they made a chilling announcement, that Tobias was a suspect in the murder of his own girlfriend. And later, they announced that his sister Katrin and their friend Jens were suspects too.

• 25:37Speaker 06

  Looking back through old newspapers from around the time the German police named Tobias as a suspect, one front page of the local paper has the headline, Tobias: Could He Have Killed?

• 25:51Speaker 06

  It all must have come as a huge shock to the Lismore community after they'd fundraised to help pay for Tobias's ticket home. I wanted to find out how the people of Lismore were feeling after they'd learned he'd lied. So I got in touch with the reporter who wrote a lot of these stories.

• 26:08Speaker 05

  I'm Alex Easton, I'm a producer slash presenter with ABC Sunshine Coast, but the relevant bit here is I used to be a reporter with The Northern Star.

• 26:20Speaker 06

  Alex worked at the same paper as Cath, who you heard from last episode, that local daily that people loved to hate. He says that after people found out Tobias was a suspect, they went from feeling sorry for him to thinking he was a monster.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  So I think the expectation, or the general belief, was that Tobias was not the good guy that he'd painted himself to be. Not only did he sort of take the money of compassionate Lismore residents to get a free trip home, he also lied to police.

• 26:59Speaker 06

  Even though people knew Tobias had lied, they didn't know what he'd lied about. And police hadn't publicly revealed their full theory about what happened to Simone. With a coronial inquest into Simone's death set down for July 2007, the community felt they might finally get some answers.

• 27:19Speaker 05

  It was followed very, very closely, and people were aware of it to a level that you wouldn't necessarily expect to see normally.

• 27:30Speaker 06

  Tobias and his sister Katrin had both been informed they were considered persons of interest by the police in Australia. They were invited to attend the inquest and provide their version of events. Police even offered to pay for them to come back, but they were under no obligation to come, and they both declined through their lawyers. They wouldn't be at the inquest. As far as I can tell from the coverage, they didn't give any reason for not attending.

• 27:59Speaker 05

  I'm sure there were some people who would be looking at that going, well, if you've got nothing to hide, why don't you come back? But I'd imagine there were equally just as many people going, well, it would be amazing if he did come back because he'd... Well, I suppose the thing there is like, the understanding was that he was the one who'd done it. So why would you come back?

• 28:24Speaker 06

  On the first day of the inquest, Alex walked up the steps of the Lismore courthouse to a packed courtroom filled with lawyers and curious members of the public. For a local newsman, it's hard to imagine a bigger day.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  It was the biggest story of the year, or even of the decade, as far as we were concerned.

• 28:44Speaker 06

  The goal of a coronial inquest is to determine the cause of a suspicious death and find out the circumstances around what happened. Postmortems in Australia and Germany hadn't been able to find the cause of Simone's death.

• 29:00Speaker 06

  Simone's body was found six days after she died. Crucial evidence had been lost. Her body had started to decompose in the humid Lismore weather.

• 29:12Speaker 06

  But Alex says the police had a theory about how she died.

• 29:17Speaker 05

  There were no particularly obvious injuries, which then led the police to go, well, that means that really she could only have been killed by suffocation. It had to have been a pillow or a plastic bag.

• 29:31Speaker 06

  Alex says it seemed unlikely a murderer would be walking around Lismore in the middle of the night with a pillow or a plastic bag, ready to commit the crime.

• 29:42Speaker 06

  Police said there were also other reasons to believe that Simone's killer might not have been a stranger.

• 29:49Speaker 06

  Although Simone was found naked, postmortems didn't find clear evidence of sexual assault.

• 29:56Speaker 06

  Simone also had no obvious defensive injuries, which are usually caused when someone tries to fight off an attack by a stranger. Police said, looking at the evidence as a whole, they thought the killer was Tobias.

• 30:11Speaker 06

  And because it may have been difficult to move the body to that spot alone, he could have been helped by someone. They said his sister Katrin might have been involved, or at least had some knowledge of the crime.

• 30:24Speaker 05

  They did paint this quite compelling picture, I thought, of why it was, like, why it couldn't really have been anyone else other than Tobias, and he couldn't have done it really in any way other than this way. And if he had help from Katrin, then they could have got her body through the fence relatively easily.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  Police said they believed Tobias used a pillow to suffocate Simone in their camper van. They said it could have happened while Katrin and Jens were still out looking. If Simone returned to the campsite, Tobias could have killed her before the others got back.

• 31:05Speaker 06

  Police believed he carried her body either on his own or with the help of Katrin, and passed it through a hole in the wire fence to the place where she was found.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  The inquest also heard from a crucial witness, someone who was at the caravan park that night.

• 31:35Speaker 06

  Jens Martin, the friend who Simone, Tobias and Katrin had been travelling with. While the other two had refused to attend, Jens made the trip back to Australia, even though the German police considered him a suspect. He told the inquest he hadn't seen Tobias kill Simone, or any direct evidence that Tobias was involved. But he did say he'd considered the possibility later.

• 32:04Speaker 05

  He talked about his shock at the discovery of Simone's body and the realisation that she'd been murdered, his own struggle with the idea that maybe Tobias had done it. And then his own, like his reservations about the level of control that Tobias had exerted.

• 32:27Speaker 06

  This was different to what he'd told the Australian police before Simone's body was found. He'd initially told them the same story as the others, that Simone left the campsite after a minor argument broke out between Katrin and Tobias.

• 32:43Speaker 06

  But he later admitted he'd lied. He said because Tobias told him to. Now, he said he was telling the inquest the full story. And Jens said the fighting between Tobias and Simone was much worse than what the backpackers had initially told police.

• 33:01Speaker 05

  The way Jens had described it, there'd been this huge conflict that had kicked off beforehand and then when they reached the night had escalated beyond anything that they'd seen before. And with that screaming of abuse.

• 33:19Speaker 06

  Jens said he'd never seen Tobias, quote, "flipping out like that".

• 33:24Speaker 05

  Then the next thing you know, Simone's disappeared. And shortly after, or a week after that, her body's found hidden under palm fronds in the botched club across the road. Tobias was really very controlling, not just of Simone but of the whole group. Jens was up there giving evidence about how Tobias was telling them, "this is what you're going to tell the police and this is what we're going to do about searching for Simone", or "not searching for Simone". He was saying that Tobias would sort of brief them before they'd do a police interview and then debrief them afterwards to make sure they had their story straight and they weren't saying the wrong thing, basically.

• 34:10Speaker 06

  Along with Katrin and Tobias, Jens had also lied to police about how much they'd had to drink. When he was asked why he didn't push back against Tobias and tell the truth at the time, he said he couldn't explain it.

• 34:24Speaker 05

  He seemed very genuine and very earnest and sincere. He was there because he wanted to do the right thing.

• 34:35Speaker 06

  I wondered if the inquest had ever heard about other possible suspects. People in Lismore seemed to believe early on that maybe someone local could have been responsible. Was anyone else ever investigated? Incredibly, multiple people confessed to killing Simone, either directly to police or to other people in the area. But ultimately, police said they were all found to have had alibis or to have been bignoting themselves, some of them with accounts that didn't line up with the evidence. I can't imagine why anyone would think confessing to a murder would be something to brag about, but it does happen. Mental illness and substance abuse

• 35:20Speaker 06

  were also cited as reasons why they might have made up these confessions.

• 35:26Speaker 06

  Alex says the police theory that Tobias had killed Simone made sense to him.

• 35:30Speaker 05

  I walked out of that going, "well, they haven't got the physical evidence they need to actually convict Tobias, but the way they've told that story has clearly done it".

• 35:45Speaker 06

  Alex said it seemed like the local police hadn't forgotten how Tobias had called them kindergarten cops.

• 35:52Speaker 06

  The inquest was their chance to finally reveal the police work they'd done and why Tobias was their suspect.

• 35:58Speaker 05

  It was something that kept on coming up afterwards, even to the point, like on the other side of the inquest, it's sort of like, "you can't call us kindergarten cops anymore". It was a real sore point for the police.

• 36:11Speaker 06

  When the inquest was over, the coroner, Paul McMahon, delayed his findings to make one more attempt at getting Tobias and Katrin to speak and respond to the serious allegations that had been made against them. He wrote to them personally to ask them to attend, but they never did.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  When the findings were eventually released, the coroner made a series of strong and clear conclusions. Coroner McMahon accepted the police theory that Simone likely died of suffocation in the vicinity of the caravan park and that she hadn't been sexually assaulted. He said the relationship between Simone and Tobias was not a good one at the time Simone disappeared. And this was supported by the diary entries and witness accounts. Tobias had given the police a false story about what happened that night, the coroner said, and took action to ensure the others would lie as well. Remember how they downplayed the drinking

• 37:16Speaker 06

  and tensions in their relationship and their argument that night? The coroner said there was a very strong suspicion that Tobias Sukful and maybe Katrin Sukful were involved in Simone's death, but that there wasn't enough evidence to recommend charges against either of them.

• 37:39Speaker 06

  Although German police considered Jens Martin a suspect, coroner McMahon made no reference to the possibility of Jens being involved in the crime and accepted Jens as a credible witness.

• 37:58Speaker 06

  Tobias's refusal to attend the inquest put journalists on his tail. People wanted to hear him face the accusation that he killed Simone.

• 38:09Speaker 06

  While the inquest was still running, an Australian journalist tracked him down all the way to South Africa, where he found Tobias teaching surf lessons for a backpacker's lodge.

• 38:22Speaker 06

  The journalist, Charles Miranda, provided a glimpse of just how far the media was prepared to go in a frank interview with News Corp's True Crime Australia channel. If Tobias was trying to hide, the journalist's story showed he was willing to go to extreme lengths to gather info on his new life. He explained how he went undercover as a non-English speaking backpacker.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  And that way I could get an idea of what he was doing and just watch him as he moved about the lodge.

• 38:55Speaker 06

  But he didn't just watch, like journalists usually do. He infiltrated Tobias's life. Charles even hired actors to pose as beginner surfers to gather intel. Finally, he ambushed Tobias as he was walking back from the beach, a confrontation designed to provoke a response.

• 39:15Speaker 03

  I was just off his shoulder, sort of popping out of one of the side trails that lead back to the lodge and he couldn't move. And so it was quite an awkward walk for all of us together, walking up the hill as I was questioning him, peppering with questions, saying, "you've been named as a person of interest in Australia. Why won't you give evidence? Why won't you appear at the inquest into the murder of your girlfriend?".

• 39:40Speaker 06

  But Tobias said he wouldn't do an interview. He just said he had nothing to do with it. Even so, the journalist had revealed in front of the surf students that Tobias was a murder suspect, making the allegation public in his new life. It became the status quo for Tobias Sukful. Everywhere he went, journalists followed, and every time, he refused to speak.

• 40:08Speaker 06

  Later, Channel 7's Sunday Night set up their own confrontation, their reporter shouting questions at a fleeing Tobias while a camera crew was chasing him down the street.

• 40:20Speaker 07

  Why do the Australian police think you murdered your girlfriend? Why are they wrong? Why run? If you've got nothing to hide, why run?

• 40:28Speaker 06

  The journalist doesn't even need Tobias to say anything to make the point. Peppering him with questions like this made his silence seem deafeningly loud. Footage of him running away from the cameras made it look even more like he had something to hide.

• 40:46Speaker 06

  The media might have been aggressive, but Simone's friends and family, the whole community, wanted answers. And still, he refused to talk.

• 40:59Speaker 06

  In fact, Tobias has never agreed to answer a journalist's questions about that night and about why he lied. That is, until now.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I admit mistakes afterwards, but I did not kill Simone.

• 41:24Speaker 06

  On the next episode, Tobias Sukful speaks.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  I acted so cocky and out of character. I was a pissed off boyfriend who felt so left alone when I needed help. And I was like, "I am fucking worried and I need someone to help me". I was not lying for any other reason than to get these guys to take Simone serious.

• 42:08Speaker 06

  This season of Unravel is intended to be listened to as a whole. If you haven't heard all the episodes, you shouldn't draw any conclusions because you haven't heard all the sides of the story yet. If you saw anything that night in Lismore or if you know someone else who did, get in touch. Unravel True Crime at abc.net.au or you can call Crime Stoppers on 1-800-333-0000.

• 42:47Speaker 02

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