Uncapped #45 | Ron Conway from SV Angel

Ron Conway is the Founder and a Managing Partner of SV Angel. He has been an active angel investor since the mid-90s and has received wide recognition for his role in the tech ecosystem. He has been included on Vanity Fair’s 100 most influential people in the Information Age, awarded Best Angel at the TechCrunch Crunchies Awards, and has been named on Forbes Magazine's Midas list of top “deal-makers” since 2011. Prior to founding SV Angel, Ron was with National Semiconductor Corporation in marketing positions (1973-1979), Altos Computer Systems as a co-founder, President, and CEO (1979-1990), taking the company public on Nasdaq in 1982. Ron reflects on decades of investing, from semiconductors to AI, and what it really means to be an “all in” partner to founders. He shares how relationships compound into an unfair advantage, why the best investors show up at inflection points, and how being willing to fight, whether in boardrooms or Washington, can change outcomes. --- Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (1:50) From semiconductors to AI (8:39) Two investments that changed everything (11:46) Nonpassive angel investing (14:57) Becoming a relationship broker (18:00) Building authentic relationships (24:48) Going deep with OpenAI and Airbnb (29:19) Fighting for founders (31:39) Remarkable returns at seed (33:20) The state wealth tax (37:17) Tech and politics --- Links: https://x.com/RonConway https://x.com/jaltma https://svangel.com/ https://uncappedpod.com/ --- [email protected]

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You got to recognize the problem, want to solve it and have conviction and want to win. And off you go. I can call people up now and say, you want to do it the hard way or the easy way?

• 0:11Speaker 01

  God, I would hate to get that call from you.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Cool. All right. Well, this is my, this is my first go at a live podcast. So I don't know what's going to happen, but we both have a sufficient number of microphones on, but this will be, this will be good.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And I, I feel rude not facing the audience, but because it's a podcast.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  The audience is out there.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  And my camera is there. If you're back there, don't think I'm rude.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  I'm doing what we do on podcasts. And I'm going to leave this second we're done.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Second we're done.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  Because I have Nancy and Paul Pelosi sitting with Gail and I on the floor of the Warrior game tonight. And if you know Nancy Pelosi, she is always prompt and has told me to be prompt.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  We will not be late. And we're going to get to that type of thing as one of the sort of your superpowers. So everybody knows who you are, but as I was thinking about this conversation and this audience, we have a bunch of seed investors here in, you know, various forms of the job and various stages in their career. And you are sort of the person who is the kind of archetype of angel investing. You've been sort of almost embarrassingly successful investing in like Stripe and LinkedIn and Facebook and Google and PayPal and Airbnb and Pinterest and almost more than it's like reasonable to name. And so what I kind of wanted to do was to try to open up how you've made that happen

• 1:40Speaker 01

  and have you kind of look back over the decades of your investing and try to glean what an investor in 2026 can learn from you and your success and try to, you know, take, take from themselves. I think the place I wanted to start was like, if you could try to kind of give your own narrative of your own career, starting from when you first got into investing and like what played out over time, just to sort of ground us in like what your sort of professional life has been all about.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  Well, I think it all starts with age and seniority. And speaking of age and seniority, your mom is here and I want to recognize her.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  My mom's young.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  What?

• 2:16Speaker 01

  My mom is young. There's no age.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Hey, I view myself as young too, but I want to recognize that mom is here. And we had a good time at Sam's 40th. And this is why I bring up age.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  Because I've been through every technology cycle, starting with semiconductors, which is where I started my career, I did not like school. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of school. So I left San Jose State and the next Monday I started work at National Semiconductor in the Santa Clara Valley, when there, when most of Santa Clara Valley was fruit orchards and an occasional semiconductor factory. So I went, you know, I've been through the semiconductor phase, which kind of gave way to the computer phase, it gave way to the software phase, and then into the 90s with the internet boom, and then today, the

• 3:13Speaker 00

  AI boom. The AI boom is bigger than all of those combined, I swear to God. It's, it's hard to fathom, it's, it's hard to keep up with, but I think we all have that problem because there's so much change happening at once. Even in the internet boom, you, you could kind of keep track of things, you know, Netscape was mission central, Netscape's the one that allowed you access to all of this corpus of information on the web. And from that, you know, we, we, we got the internet boom. So I was fortunate to go work at National Semiconductor. A few people at National went

• 3:54Speaker 00

  off and started, started a company called Altos Computer. They asked me to join. This is when the microcomputers were disrupting Dec, Data General, Prime, Wang, does anybody remember these names? But this little Altos Computer was upending them. So it's, you know, technology is all about disrupting. So we were disrupting the mini computer companies. And I love it because I interviewed sitting on the floor. There are no desks, nothing. I, I was the head of sales on Walsh Road in, in Santa Clara, literally like five blocks from National Semiconductor. And because I

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Was the sales guy and justifiably so. Technology companies are engineer driven and our engineering CEO, Dave Jackson, who had more charisma, you know, this, this Brit just eked charisma and helped me close anything that was hard to sell. You're the sales guy. You sit next to the copy machine next to the factory, which is just fine with me because I was traveling a lot anyway. So we, we, we built Altos. Altos went public. We had a, we had a very successful IPO. What year was this? I want to say 86. Okay, mid eighties, yeah. I'm getting, but, but our stock went public at 21. We had our closing dinner at Club 21 in New York.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  I told my wife when I left, this is not a normal business trip. We're going public at the end of this week. We're going to be what we call wealthy. And she said, you are so full of shit. And she happened to go to the bank the day we went public and I sold some stock. And the guy goes, this is like the biggest deposit we've ever had. And she, she called me up in New York and said, what in the hell is going on? You've done something bad. I said, no, no, we just, we just went public. She's like, you need more IPOs. What? She's like, you need more IPOs. Yeah, yeah. So, so I ran Altos. Um, but we ran into bumpy water because along came, you know, if you don't disrupt yourself, you will be disrupted.

• 6:07Speaker 00

  That's one of my, you know, benchmark, benchmark, your new company, one of my benchmark sayings, if you don't disrupt yourself, you will be disrupted. And we, we were complacent. We had a great IPO, king, you know, we thought we were king of the hill. And along came this little thing called a PC connected to the Ethernet, which replaced these multi-user systems. So we had to sell the, we had to sell the company to Acer. The value of our real estate, and I told the states when I was selling them, this real estate is worth 100 million. So it doesn't really matter what you pay for anything else. And it's on Trimble Road, that real estate is now probably worth a half a billion. So then I was out of a job. And Don Valentine was our lead board member. Everyone knows Don Valentine, the founder of Sequoia Capital.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  He came on the board very soon, was the only investor, came on the road show with us. And Don, he has two sons and a daughter, like any father with, you know, I'm going to see where that daughter goes. He picked Altos out of his whole portfolio because he liked our culture. And another thing that a founder has to do is build the culture. Some companies have bad culture. They allow philandering, et cetera, et cetera. That's not a good culture. That's, those people are not role models. I'm just not going to name them.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  We can name a couple if you want.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  But culture is important. And he knew, you know, that we built a great culture. And we had all these young kids, Dave Jackson's kids worked there. It was a really cool place. And our motto was play hard, work hard. There was alcohol, but it was on Friday night. And then Monday, everyone back to work. So Don says to me, what the hell are you going to do? And I said, let me tell you, I don't like managing people. I found that out. Because close to 1,000 people, you just become an HR director, in my opinion.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  Some people like managing and God bless those people. We need managers. And Don said, well, if you don't like managing people, why don't you just come hang out at me? Come to board meetings and watch me give founders advice. You've already been a founder, so you know what it's like. And why don't you become an angel investor? So I went to board meetings with Don. And in the middle of the first board meeting, I was spellbound because he was giving this founder advice that I knew I could give the founder. So I just started investing in startups on my own. And that led to, you know, becoming institutional, et cetera, et cetera.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Was there a moment in your early angel investing journey where something important happened? Like, was there a seminal investment that changed everything for you? Was it a slow build? Like, how did you go from just, you know, sitting in that first board meeting to like, getting the traction that you got?

• 8:54Speaker 00

  We made a bunch of investments and a lot of them failed. Our very, the very first angel investment I ever made was a company called Natural Language Incorporated, Berkeley, California. Natural Language.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Sounds like AI.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  AI.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  My first investment ever. I'm not exaggerating. Now, I dredged this up after the AI. Who would care five years ago? But, um, and it was run by, by, by, by two guys, John Manfredelli and Ginsburg. I forget his first name. That's how my synapses are working right now. Way too early for AI. So guess what we did? We had, like all good founders, let's go find a home for ourselves. We went up to Microsoft and Bill Gates already was all over AI. And he wanted the team. So we

• 9:48Speaker 00

  brought the team up. I didn't tell him, but we were out of payroll. And he goes, I'm going to buy the company. I said, we've got to buy it today. And he goes, hey, I'm going to buy the company. I said, no, we're going to do it today because otherwise I'll go sell to somebody else. He got really furious and down came the guy who now owns the Giants, who is the general counsel. Because I said, you can't leave until we sign the deal. And he goes, well, how about, it became a game. How about if I bring down my general counsel and he doesn't leave until the deal's done? So I can go run my company. I said, no, that's good. Manfredelli still works at Microsoft. But the investment that kind of got the clock ticking and things going was ass sheaves. Ben

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Rosen and I, Ben Rosen was

• 10:38Speaker 00

  A Morgan Stanley star analyst who loved and covered Altos Computer. Morgan Stanley always, Altos was always a buy.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  We all loved each other. He went and started Rosen, seven Rosen Partners. Compaq and Lotus were his wins. He retired from there when I was getting started. And he said, Ron, let's, let's go do this together. Just investing our own money together, nothing formal. And but Ben sourced Ask Jeeves, not me. The guy on the East Coast sourced Ask Jeeves in Berkeley. And him and LJ seven, they each had a private plane. This is years ago, but they each had a private plane. I would pick them up at the airport and we'd go, we wouldn't have a board meeting. We'd have a build the company meeting and the three of us with the founders of Ask Jeeves, built that company together and it was so much fun.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  The funnest part was in the car, me, much younger than the two of them, chauffeuring these two, who were pretty old at the time. And the shit that they would say and the stories they would tell. And it was all about, we're gonna, we're gonna make Ask Jeeves a huge company.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  It's interesting hearing you talk about this because you've used the language around like building companies a lot. And I know also in a lot of the companies you've been involved with later, like Airbnb and OpenAI, like I know you really get in there. I think there's like a reputation, a lot of people associate with angel investors that is extremely passive. And I don't think you think of it that way. Like, have you, what is, what is your experience of what angel investing looks like when it's done well? Like, is it passive or should it be active? Well, what's the boundary?

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Well, with SV angel, you're all in or don't bother. And we've always taken the approach that, you know, if SV angel had a moniker, it would be advocates for founders. But, but how we approach investing is a holistic approach. We want to help the whole founder. We want to help them advance their career because, you know, when they start, they have no experience whatsoever. We want to help them build their team. But along the way, they're going to run into all kinds of stumbling blocks. And we are afraid of no stumbling block. But these are unusual stumbling blocks. I get the call.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  My mom just got diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. How am I supposed to run this company and help my mom? And off we go. We have formed a very close partnership with UCSF in San Francisco, one of the best medical centers west of the Mississippi. We know every department head. They make us go through procedures. Occasionally, I violate those and go directly like to the head of neurology, like I did last summer for a luminary in this valley. And I wanted, I'm digressing here, but his name's Andy Josephson.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  I was in Venice. I got a call in the middle of the night from your brother, hint, hint, what company it was. And I went to work and before morning, Andy got the hint. Cause I said, I want to know what doctor you're going to assign. And he said, he gave me a bunch of names and shit. And I said, well, give me a name, give me a name. He goes, how about if I am the attending? The head of all neurology of UCSF? I said, Andy, took you a while, but you got it right. Okay. He's in the car now coming to see you. I don't want anyone less than. So what we do is, is brings some comfort to the founder and the family.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  You're talking about the ability to do that. And you know, you're right after this, you are, you know, we're leaving on time because we're going to go see Nancy Pelosi. And part of, you know, my experience with you when you invested in my company, Lattice was somehow, and I knew you were involved in a lot of companies, but like if I called, you answered and you like connected me to like Mark Benioff. And then he took it. And so

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Don't ask me to do that now.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  I want to one time, it was one time ask.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  We don't have troops and I don't talk to Benny off.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  That's, well, we're, politics comes in 20 minutes. But Part of I think what allows you to do what you've done must be having the ability to be a power broker and to sort of have these connections. And I feel like in some ways, you know, there's firms now who have kind of like built a brand around that, like Andreessen comes to mind, but you obviously have done that on your own and you've been able to be in touch with the right regulators so that you can help, you know, a marketplace that is running into issues with the city or, you know, things like that with the hospital or CEOs of big companies. What did it take to get to a place that let you have those relationships where you could help companies in a real way with a small amount of your time? Because I feel like that's the only way that this works.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  First, SV Angel, everyone in the firm has an attitude of we are always on for founders. We're advocates for founders, we're always on. If they have a problem at two in the morning and I'm in Venice, I'm picking up the phone. But instead of the word power, I would swap in the word relationship. SV Angel has built a relationship network no VC comes close to. Andreessen Horowitz has tried and succeeded. Mark and Ben take tiny salaries and they have the huge service org, but some of it is organic. For me, it's because I started my career at National Semiconductor.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Guess what Steve Jobs did when he started his, you know, first it was semis and then the PCs. When Jobs started the PC, the only place he had to go to find executives was the semiconductor companies. So he went and got Mike Markle to be the chairman and he got Mike Scott, who was the head of hybrid semiconductors at National Semiconductor, to be the president of Apple. I'm sitting in Mike Scott's office one day and he goes, I'm going to Apple. And I said, what the hell is Apple? And he goes, well, it's this microcomputer thing and I'm sick of building semiconductors. Then Jobs came back to get Floyd Kwame to be the first VP of Marketing of Apple.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  So then, based on National Semi, I had two relationships at Apple Computer. And then just imagine that flywheel going for 40 years. Because then I went into software. I got to know every single software executive. A bunch of them peeled off and went to internet companies. So when our founders need help. I have this Rolodex, some of them are getting old, but I have this Rolodex of any company. And now what was fortunate is we ended up investing in some of the defining companies like Google, Twitter, Meta.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Which creates more relationships.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  That a lot of our founders need distribution deals from.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  And we built the management teams of those companies. Those are very easy calls to call Chris Cox and say, hey, I'm sending somebody over.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  I assume you think that like being a relationship broker is like very important to being a good seed investor. What do you?

• 17:58Speaker 00

  It's our most valuable asset.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  What, what, what do you do to nurture? Cause like, obviously, you know, it couldn't have happened without some of those early relationships, but there's a lot of other people who have early relationships like that, that don't turn into a relationship broker the way you have. So I'm curious if you can like, talk about some of the things that you've done to like authentically build those. I've like watched, you know, you at sort of like an event where you're thinking about making, you, you pull two people together at a party and say, you guys should talk. You're like, I'm not going to get anything immediate out of this, but I see you constantly brokering these sort of relationships. So like what's going through your head as you navigate the world to cultivate this?

• 18:35Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, you have to have a, a, a personality where you enjoy meeting new people. I love meeting new people. My wife hates meeting new people. I would imagine 40% of the population hates meeting new people. They're shy. They're not interested. There's various reasons. I happen to love meeting new people, so I love gathering people. If you don't have that trait, it's going to be harder for you. And then I love connecting people. You know, Marc Andreessen calls me the human router. That's a compliment. I love connecting people.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  Uh, because something's good is gonna happen. I mean, if I made a list of all of them, it'd be a long list.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  So you're obviously not keeping track, though. You're of course just doing this and yours, who knows what will happen.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  Well, I keep track of the big ones. I keep track of the big, I, I, I.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  So tell me about that. You keep track in a big way.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  You know, very key intros.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah. So it's just, somebody yesterday was telling me, I wish I could remember, but, but they were bragging about this thing. And I said, who do you think did the original intro? And they kept talking and I said, I did that intro. And then they looked at me like I was nuts. And then I just described it exactly. And they go, oh yeah, you, you obviously put that deal together. I said, yeah, we put, but then I moved to the next one.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  We have a lot of founders.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  And there's a lot going on.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  So is it a constant background function for you as you're meeting people of who could I be connecting?

• 20:08Speaker 00

  Oh, hell yes. And we, we love helping all founders.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  You know, now the synapses are going to sleep. Cloudflare.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  Cloudflare. That company had all kinds of problems in the early days. I helped that company because they were part of the ecosystem.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  If a founder stops me and has a problem I can solve, I'll solve it, even though, here's a good one. Uh, the founder of Zoom, Eric Wan, accosted me in a parking lot a long time ago. As I'm getting in my car, he goes, I actually alarmed you. And I, and he said, guess what you did for me? And then he described, I, I got in the car, shut the door and I only saw him after he, after Zoom. He reached out to me and he said, I, well, I ran into him somewhere and he goes, we gotta talk about the parking lot. And I said, what parking lot? He goes, you sat in a parking lot and gave me a whole bunch of advice. You had the beginning of my career. I said, yeah, that's fun.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's interesting because like, I think as a seed investor, there's like, you can be sitting around, like if you wake up one morning, like, what should I do today? There's like the, I think the common body of work is like, what are the companies I should go try to meet and get time with? And I feel like there's another orientation, which I feel like you very much have, which is just like, who could I be connecting today? Like, what are the people I know that I could be putting in touch with each other? I think that's something that you have to like, have a long-term commitment to. You can't just like, do that one.

• 21:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a commitment to the ecosystem. The tech ecosystem in the Bay Area is really, really important.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Do you go out of your way to go build relationships in like other ecosystems? Like, for example, are you ever like, I should go meet people? I should go spend time with this part of the government or these people in Hollywood or whatever, because I just know that somebody in tech will need this?

• 21:52Speaker 00

  Very premeditated. Media, we were way too early. We were poking around Hollywood in the, you know, like 1988 because of Lenny Armato, Shaquille O'Neal's agent is at the height of the Lakers. He was a tech nut. And he goes, it's all gonna happen tomorrow. Streaming, audio, video. We invested in audio and video companies way too early. Now, we did not invest in YouTube, but I sat in the rat-infested place in San Bruno with Chad and Steve, because that's a company I knew was exploding.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  I, that one, I actually drove, parked, put money in the meter, went in and said, guys, I want to be of service. Video's gonna explode. But then we had all the copyright shit. And I feel, I feel so sorry for them. Chad, by the way, sits two seats down from us tonight, because they knew they had to sell. Now, thank God they sold to Google, and we know what happened to Google's stock, which, and they deserve all of, all of the benefits those two have gotten. But they knew they didn't have enough lawyers and infrastructure, et cetera. There, there is a right time to sell.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  So we, we tend to actually predict stuff kind of early. Look at natural language.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  But so like, you know, like if you're thinking about like, I need to, you know, go deeper with the government because I've got a lot of companies bumping into regulations and things like that. You'll like go to, what? Go to DC for a week and just spend time with people? Or what's that look like?

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Well, I've always felt like the tech industry should be civically engaged generically. We have to vote. We have to tell legislators about all the jobs we're creating. And if we run into trouble, they should be loyal to us because of job creation. The reason I love Nancy Pelosi, you say job creation to her, and she doesn't care what it is. If it's creating jobs, I'm going to help. She gets it, but there's a lot of lawmakers, Bernie Sanders, you know, God help us,

• 24:03Speaker 00

  who don't get it, who who want to demonize tech, and all they're doing is costing America jobs. That's not fair to anybody. So yes, I've made it my business over the years to get always know the two state senators, know the governor, know Nancy and Schumer, and building a relationship with them is is hard.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  But it's true. I mean, like, coming to those relationships transactionally is never going to work. Like, they have everybody coming to them transactionally all day.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  And I guess you have to build, I mean, you did it just naturally, but you've built to those kinds of relationships over the course of your career, of course, you know, to be able to help the next person, you've got to have done something before.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Before we come back to politics, there's a couple more investing things I wanted to get your take on. There's a few times where I've observed you going really deep with a company that maybe you made a small investment in early and then you might have invested more, but you know, you take these really deep engagements. And I've worked with my brother at OpenAI, I think you've run deep with Airbnb. How do you think about that work as it relates to like the business of angel investing or seed investing? Like, is that something that you think is, looking back, has doing that with a small number of companies been important? Was that just fun? Is it both?

• 25:12Speaker 00

  SV Angel always gets involved at what we call inflection points. And we tell founders, we're not going to bother you, not going to look over your shoulder, but if you're at an inflection point where it's kind of a life and death, that's kind of the shit that we're good at. So you come to us when you're at an inflection point. COVID hits and Brian Chesky's board tells him, Jesus, have we got a company? And poor Brian was was struck by that and calls me. And I said, you bet your ass we have a company. You're gonna have to make some hard decisions. He already knew what they were. He was gonna have to lay off half the company. He, these founders are smart.

• 25:56Speaker 00

  But that was a crisis where he was being told that the game was over. And I was like, the game is not over. The game is just starting. It was so bad. I said, hey, this is COVID. COVID is Armageddon. When the three of you are free, Joe, Nathan and Brian, you call me. I don't care if it's three in the morning, but I'm going to give you a little lecture about who's in charge here. You're in charge of your own destiny. I know we can go raise, I forget, we raised a couple of hundred million. They were told that they could not raise anything, zero. Do not bother to raise money. You can't raise money. There's this thing called COVID.

• 26:39Speaker 00

  I said, you're being given a bunch of shitty advice and we're going to go raise the money. And in 10 days, we had the money. We didn't have it where I thought we were going to get it, but that didn't matter. We got it from Silver Lake in some fancy instrument. God bless Silver Lake. And Silver Lake's quite happy right now with that. So these inflection points, they're kind of, they're kind of obvious. A founder who's really in need. Oh, they matter so much to a founder. And we're, we're going to put all of our stuff to the side and go help.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  The Silicon Valley Bank crisis, which hit the day of our founder summit three years ago, was definitely the most consequential project I've ever worked on and probably the most consequential. And I never thought about that, thought about it till just a couple of months ago because of having dinner with Wally Adiamo, Deputy Secretary of Treasury, under Janet Yellen during SVB. He said to me, do you understand like what you did and how it came down? What happened? You've got really nasty at the right time.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Well, the government wasn't doing anything and all we, all they needed to do was guarantee the deposits. So what'd you do? But, well, I, well, I didn't sleep for three days, but by Sunday morning, about six hours before the Tokyo stock market opens.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  We had to have this solved, or there was going to be a worldwide financial crisis. And we had people in Washington DC who, who just didn't get it. So by Sunday morning, now, and Sherrod Brown's one of them, the head of the Banking Committee, the, hey, we can't spend too much time on this. But the FDIC, which is the one who had to process, hey, we're going to guarantee, we're going to guarantee the, the deposits. They wouldn't budge. And I didn't realize it. They only report to Congress. It's very unusual because I'm like, who's your boss? I'm going to go talk to them and Nancy Pelosi, everybody. Their boss is Sherrod Brown and Maxine Waters.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Sherrod in the Senate, Maxine in the House. So I was talking a lot to Sherrod and Maxine. And by Sunday morning, I got very, very firm with them. Like you're going to be responsible for worldwide crisis. I don't know what the hell you're doing, but get off your duffs and make the announcement.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  It's an interesting thing about you because I feel like you, like you said, you love people. You're incredibly supportive of people. You're there for them in their times of need. But this story is an example, and there's a lot of other examples too, where you're also not afraid to fight and you're really willing to fight. Can you talk about like an investor's role in those situations? Like, you know, I think there was a story recently where Neil at Green Oaks was, you know, in a real fight with government for a founder. And I think, you know, that's really important to do. You've been willing to do it, but it's sort of different than the sort of, you know, I love people and going around and meeting, you know, it's like, it doesn't naturally show up. I think from you, it's coming from a place of, I love my founder, so I'll fight for them. But can you talk about the mindset that lets you go fight?

• 29:59Speaker 00

  Well, you, you have to have conviction and know how to wiggle your way into, to, to, to solve that, to solve that problem. The, the, the OpenAI coup, you know, when Sam was asked to leave was a good example. I had conviction that the founder had been mistreated.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  And we, we were gonna make that right and we were taking no prisoners and we did, we knew what we had to do and we went and did it.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Do you think in general Silicon Valley like lacks the toughness needed in a lot of cases? Cause I feel like other industries often will do this sort of tougher work at a higher rate. Do you feel like enough of it happens in tech?

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Probably not. There's a, there's a lot of companies that, that go out of business because they shouldn't. The other thing, this might sound trivial, but I do not like losing. I am competitive.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  You have to be okay with being disliked or having people mad at you?

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Well, I think if you're fighting for a founder, you have to be fearless. You know, if I had a, what do they call it? Grave stone, just fearless for founders. That's, that's what we're about. Cause founders do get abused. I mean, what happened to Sam is unconscionable. But this, this does happen. And when that happens, we don't like it and we get the blinders on until we fix it.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I love it. One other investing topic I want to ask you about, and then I want to talk a little bit about politics. I want to hear about the way you think about sort of building portfolios and SV Angel has had remarkably good returns. You've taken like, I think a pretty diversified approach in general. Like you've made a lot of investments, then you've hit some really big companies. And it sounds like throughout your career, you've invested in a lot of companies. Like what's your mindset when you think about like what seed investing should look like in terms of concentration or exposing yourself to enough, you know, companies and all these things. Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  Well, today it's kind of easy because everything's AI.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  But if you go back, you know, 40 years ago, SV Angel has always been thematic investors. I like what I do because it's interesting and I watch founders succeed. Jack Dorsey, watching Jack Dorsey go through shit at Twitter resurrected Square. It, it's like the best thing that you could ever witness. We're always thematic and we're thematic because it's interesting. So when I first started, I said, what the hell do we think is going to explode? Oh, you've got Yahoo and Ask Jeeves and Lycos. There were 10 search companies. Something must be going on in search. Let's so search became a theme.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  B to B game a theme. We've always been thematic. We have this piece of paper if I had it. We're always looking at probably six themes. Any company in that theme that comes in the door, we're going to at least take a look at. If it doesn't fit those themes, we pretty quickly turn them down. So we SP angels is very thematic oriented. Now, within AI, we have to be thematic within AI because everything's AI. But but we've, we've always been thematic investors.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  I know we don't have that much longer and I really want to talk to you about politics. I know something that's important to you. You talked about how it's really important for you think people in tech, companies in tech to be engaged. I know right now you really care about what's happening in like the state. And in particular, I actually would love to start by talking about the, the wealth tax that is being proposed. And I know you've been fighting and you care a lot about it. Do you talk about like, why you think it's a bad idea?

• 33:44Speaker 00

  One more, one global SP angel has always been civically engaged and encouraged founders to be civically engaged. So that you know your local politicians. So when you have a crisis, you have a relationship. We're also philanthropically engaged. We believe founders, you want to give back. Guess what? You have this byproduct that morale explodes when the company is also has a philanthropic bent. But right now on this state wealth tax. You know, I hate to be pessimistic and I'm not normally pessimistic, but we have a crisis where we have one SEI union that's associated with healthcare.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Who has, who has a ballot proposition? They need 900,000 signatures for it, which is possible. And when they get that, it will go on the ballot. On top of all the other taxes we pay, it's a 5% wealth tax on every asset that you have. So if this happened, they would go through your house, appraise every piece of art, appraise your car. And whatever that is, you pay 5%. What makes it worse is if you have voting control.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Like Larry and Sergey do, Larry and Sergey, let's say they own 10% of Google today. They have 80% voting control. Zuckerberg has the same thing. A lot of founders have this. This horrible piece of legislation says your tax is based on whatever that top number is. So even though Larry and Sergey own 80% of Google, they want to tax them for 80% of the market cap of the company. That is why Larry and Sergey had to leave. They didn't have a, it wasn't multiple choice for them. So this is one of the most onerous pieces

• 35:43Speaker 00

  of proposed, you know, a ballot initiative. Our job is to get Gavin to negotiate this so that it doesn't get to the ballot. So maybe they don't get the signatures.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Because you think if it gets to the ballot, it's got a good chance of going through?

• 36:01Speaker 00

  It could. We can't let that happen, in my opinion. And Gavin knows that, and Gavin's with us on that. So if they get the signatures, there will, and they have, they only have money for the signatures. They don't have money to even run a campaign. So, you know, they're not thinking that well. So at that point, there needs to be a negotiation to keep it off the ballot. That's why there are counter-ballot initiatives against this, also getting signatures. We need a couple of those to get the 900K signatures as well, because that will give Gavin some bargaining chips. The other labor unions are furious at the healthcare guys. Imagine what the teachers' union thinks of this?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  And all the other unions?

• 36:47Speaker 01

  This is all driven by the healthcare union?

• 36:49Speaker 00

  It's just one isolated healthcare union. There's even other healthcare unions. This is just one, one guy who is self-appointed. So the other unions, you know, they're watching what's going on. Their blood pressure's going up. So that will be another, another negotiating lever that Gavin has. We must keep this off the ballot. So a whole bunch of work has to happen for that to happen.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  So obviously, you're putting a lot of work in now. Were you doing this work earlier in your career as well? Or is this like something that you've gotten to like later in life as you've accumulated more influence?

• 37:25Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. We started with SOPA, PIPA, when music first came to the internet. I hate to say it, Orrin Hatch and Dianne Feinstein. All the media people said, oh, they're going to take all of our music away. Also Napster, we were the first investors in Napster. And so we got involved in SOPA PIPA when they, they tried to outlaw media, media generated by the internet on the web. This is crazy, Topher will remember this. I said, so I was the rookie. So all these other lobbyists were telling us what the hell to do. I said, what the hell do we do? We've got to stop this. This is crazy. Well, you should go down to City Hall and stand on a soapbox.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  I said, oh, I've heard that saying all the time. And they said, no, no, no, we're not kidding.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Literal.

• 38:14Speaker 00

  Try, and we were in the middle of our weekly meeting and, and they said, get down to City Hall, there's a whole bunch of cameras down there. You go down, you get, literally get on a soapbox. We'll meet you there and you give your speech. A lot of good shit's gonna happen. I felt like a fool. I got on the soapbox, gave my lecture, lots of cameras, and we started, we started to turn the tide.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  And Orrin Hatch, Sean Fanning helped a lot with that. I remember Sean Fanning happened to be with Orrin Hatch that day and I said, Sean, whatever the hell you're talking about, stop talking about that and tell them about this. He was the first senator to say, I'm voting against this, my pal Sean Fanning.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it kind of goes back to the thing I said earlier about your willingness to fight. I think a lot of people don't do this, even if they believe certain things, because they're like, you know, I gotta go, I gotta go have a lot of people mad at me and I might, you know, if I'm running a company, a lot of, you know, things internally are going to come up or just, you know, the media is going to say things and I'm tired and I've got a family and I'm busy. And so I think a lot of people don't do it, not because they don't care, but it's, takes a lot of like courage and energy to do it.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  You gotta recognize the problem, want to solve it and have conviction and want to win.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  And off you go. In my later years, because I'm the one doing it and I've. Done enough of these.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  I can call people up now and say, you want to do it the hard way or the easy way?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  God, I would hate to get that call from you.

• 39:40Speaker 00

  Well, I did it. I did one today.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  That'd be tough.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  I did one today.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  That's, that's, that's tough. You mentioned Topher, you, you have, you know, three kids and work with, you know, kids over the course of your career. I think that's like a beautiful thing. And I've got kids and some I thought about, I'm just curious what that's been like for you. Like, it seems, seems awesome.

• 39:57Speaker 00

  And it, it, it, it's been awesome. I did not ask my sons to get in the investing business. I thought it was interesting, but I, I don't tell people it's interesting. But one by one, they all left jobs in, in LA because they all went to UCLA and, and came up and said, hey, this looks pretty interesting. Topher left his job in LA and said, I just want to come find a place to work. So I'll sit in your weekly meetings and pick a company and start interviewing at a bunch of companies. And like three weeks later, he goes, I don't want to interview. This is like, it's interesting just sitting here.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  It just seems like such a good way to like have adult, ongoing relationship with your kids.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  Of course. And we all operate out of the same office.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  Ronnie has A Capital, Danny has Symphony, and we love founders.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  So good. Well, Ron, thank you so much for doing this. You're a total legend. I love learning from you. Thanks for making time for us.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  And now you'll be on time with Nancy.