Episode 332 - Buried Alive

This week’s episode goes six feet deep — literally. This week, we dig into the terrifying history and paranormal fallout of being buried alive. From 19th-century “safety coffins” with skylights and breathing tubes, to family members haunted by the images of their buried (or accidentally murdered?) loved ones — we look at what people once did to avoid the worst fate imaginable… and whether or not it worked. We learn about Timothy Clark Smith, who designed his own escapable coffin in Vermont; the tragic tale of Octavia Hatcher, who may have awoken in her coffin after a mysterious illness; and Julia “The Italian Bride” Petta, whose body was found eerily preserved six years after her burial — and whose ghost still wanders the cemetery in a white wedding gown. Plus, a listener story includes a chilling paranormal discovery: a girl buried alive in the desert, revealed by a haunting spirit. Whether it’s nightmares, bells ringing from beneath the ground, or brides turned ghostly guardians, this episode explores just how thin the line between life and death can be — and what lingers when we get it wrong. 🪦🔔 Books recommended: Whisper Man and Man Made of Smoke by Alex North Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan, original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenewvo in a couple of weeks.

• 0:05Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 0:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenewvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenewvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 0:47Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenewvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenewvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O dot com slash T-G-O-G. Terms and conditions apply.

• 1:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenewvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenewvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenewvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenewvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Stonefire Non is inspired by ancient traditions, baked on stone at blazing high heat, but it's perfect for your new traditions, too. I love putting out Stonefire Non with dips for board game night. Or with cinnamon and sugar for my book club gals. We enjoy Stonefire Non before the ritual summoning of the Nameless Ones. We invoke the Nameless Ones. They shall not be named.

• 1:36Speaker 03

  And we do Stonefire pizza parties for the kids.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  I'm really scared right now. Stonefire, from our tradition to yours. Together, we on.

• 2:09Corinne Vien?

  Hi.

• 2:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hello.

• 2:10Corinne Vien?

  This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:14Corinne Vien?

  And we are your ghost sisters.

• 2:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. I feel like I'm with my like high school crush who like doesn't want to look in my eyes.

• 2:19Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god, I gotta talk this episode.

• 2:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's Corinne.

• 2:22Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 2:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm Sabrina.

• 2:24Corinne Vien?

  I'll point at you too.

• 2:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What's up, everyone?

• 2:28Corinne Vien?

  What's up?

• 2:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We have another ghost story to tell you today. Well, Corinne's gonna tell it and I'm gonna listen and you'll listen with me.

• 2:34Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And if you didn't know, I was in Vermont for the 4th of July. My parents are selling their haunted house.

• 2:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which I need to go to before they sell it.

• 2:42Corinne Vien?

  They're selling it in like a couple of weeks.

• 2:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, they're putting it on the market.

• 2:44Corinne Vien?

  Well, we'll see.

• 2:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We gotta go up.

• 2:46Corinne Vien?

  It's a big ask regarding a child.

• 2:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will call your parents and I'm gonna go hang out with Deb and Bill by myself.

• 2:53Corinne Vien?

  Oh, it's too bad you couldn't come. We don't have to get into this. This is a podcast. We don't have to discuss everything. But I was in Vermont and every time I go to Vermont, I feel like I like to come back with some sort of like hometown tale, some

• 3:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  hometown haunt.

• 3:06Corinne Vien?

  Sort of like Vermont lore. And I actually had this saved from a while ago that I had already like started to write up. So I was like, oh, this is perfect. Because in New Haven, Vermont, there was a man who was so terrified of the idea of being buried alive. He literally designed his own casket to ensure that he could get out. And it's now a ghost hunting tourist attraction.

• 3:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are you telling me this whole episode is buried alive?

• 3:34Corinne Vien?

  This is a buried alive themed episode. So we'll learn what to do to prevent yourself from being buried alive.

• 3:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, good.

• 3:41Corinne Vien?

  Or I guess maybe like how to escape the design of a casket from this guy. We'll hear about one person who was buried alive. Then we'll hear about one other person who it's questionable what exactly happened. But some sort of interesting thing.

• 3:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, this just reminds me of, and lore, that podcast covered this early days. And I think when they turned it into a TV show, it was also one of the topics they covered about it was such a common thing. Where people were being buried alive, that they literally started tying a string to the finger of the deceased.

• 4:14Corinne Vien?

  That's where the term dead ringer comes from.

• 4:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, and the bell would ring if they were moving.

• 4:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To signify, hey, you buried me alive.

• 4:21Corinne Vien?

  Which in like postmortem twitching or like little animals like going through the wooden casket. Right.

• 4:25Corinne Vien?

  A little mole tunneling through, sometimes it would trigger rings. But I did Google, like, how many people have actually been buried alive, like that we know have been buried alive? I'm sure it's way more than this, but the internet said only around 200.

• 4:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That we know of. That means like there are so many other people who.

• 4:42Corinne Vien?

  And maybe the key is like accidentally buried alive, because I just feel like.

• 4:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, because I was gonna say, there's probably also people who went purposefully.

• 4:51Corinne Vien?

  So it.

• 4:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Our listener story is indicative of someone who was purposefully buried alive.

• 4:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my god, okay.

• 4:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Corinne Vien?

  Yikes. It's an interesting thing, because it's like, is this like quicksand, where we think quicksand is way more of a threat than it is to us?

• 5:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Because it is just a terrifying fear.

• 5:09Corinne Vien?

  It is.

• 5:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I hope it never happens to any of you.

• 5:13Corinne Vien?

  It was a fear that Dr. Timothy Clark Smith from New Haven, Vermont, was riddled with. He suffered from taphophobia, which is the fear of being buried alive.

• 5:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 5:23Corinne Vien?

  There's an actual name for it, phobia. And for Timothy, this was so real, it was so all-consuming. So in order to prevent this from happening to him, or if he was buried alive, to prevent himself from basically like suffocating and dying upon waking up, he decided to take some extraordinary measures and designed his own casket and like burial place, which is now one of the strangest graves in America. The burial is complete with a window, a breathing tube, it has a bell, and it's a part of what was like a fad at the time, which was like a safety coffin system, which was designed to basically like.

• 6:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is there like a hatch?

• 6:01Corinne Vien?

  Help people. There's not a hatch. Okay, we're gonna zoom in. If you're watching on YouTube, you're gonna see the design right here. There's like a long window.

• 6:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kind of.

• 6:11Corinne Vien?

  It's like a bunker. So like you have a bunch of room in this casket, you can kind of stretch your legs. If you wake up in there, you're not looking at like the wood or anything above you, you're not in total darkness.

• 6:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Skylight.

• 6:22Corinne Vien?

  You have a skylight, your face is looking out at the sky, so you don't have to panic as much. There's a breathing tube that connects to six feet above you, so you can.

• 6:34Corinne Vien?

  And then there's also a bell to ring.

• 6:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, it's not a bad idea.

• 6:41Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I heard one rumor, which I don't think is true because this guy, I heard a rumor like people are like telling me. I read one place on the internet that he also, like a gun was included just in case like everything else failed and he didn't want to like succumb to that type of death. But I don't, I don't know if that's actually true because I feel like his fear of just like dying was so intense. I'm not sure.

• 7:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Corinne Vien?

  If that part was true.

• 7:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting. I mean, now I feel like it's, you know, the way that we deal with death and like the cremations or the death burial process. I think the possibilities of being buried alive are a lot slimmer.

• 7:17Corinne Vien?

  It's way slimmer, especially like just medicine, modern medicine and yeah, autopsies. Like there's just, your body is not tossed into a grave as quickly as it was before.

• 7:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I also think about what's that like paralytic? There's some type of paralytic or there's also like a spider that could bite you that paralyzes you and even your heart and slows it so much that if someone did examine your body, it would seem like you were dead.

• 7:42Corinne Vien?

  We covered a version of this years ago. Remember we did an episode? I think I covered it, the zombies of Haiti.

• 7:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Corinne Vien?

  Where there was basically like, there was this farm that they were, yeah, using this, like breaking down this one plant and having people inhale it and were enslaving people. Like they looked dead and then they were transported after their families.

• 8:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thought they were dead.

• 8:04Corinne Vien?

  Thought they were dead, transported to this one farm where they were like basically microdosed the entire time so that they were able bodied enough to like do stuff on the farm and be enslaved, but drugged so much that they couldn't escape.

• 8:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yikes.

• 8:19Corinne Vien?

  Real life horrors sometimes are the scariest of them.

• 8:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, humans are the scariest. Okay, so here he is with his skylight.

• 8:26Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so, so, yeah, so Timothy Clark Smith, he was a doctor and he would travel around a bunch, but he also lived in the 1800s. So he was very aware of all the terrifying tales of people being buried alive. And he was also a doctor, so I have no idea if he accidentally. Declare someone dead at this time, like, I don't know like, deep down where this fear came from, but it was like eating him alive. And so he put a lot of effort into like creating his burial place so that he, he wasn't taking any chances, basically. So Timothy lived his life, always worrying in the back of his mind if he was going to survive a live burial, if that was gonna happen to him.

• 9:07Corinne Vien?

  And as we all do, Timothy did pass away. He was not buried alive. He actually died Halloween night of eighteen ninety-three.

• 9:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bitch.

• 9:17Corinne Vien?

  Timothy, you spooky bitch.

• 9:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Such a spooky bitch.

• 9:20Corinne Vien?

  And he is buried in the Evergreen Cemetery in New Haven, Vermont. And there is this like eight foot tall, sort of like grassy mound. And like you said, it almost looks like a bunker because on top of this mound, there looks like, almost like a crypt built into the slope. It's like this square stone contraption. And in the middle of it is basically the skylight. So that is what if Timothy had been buried alive, he would wake up, look six feet above him and see through the skylight, the blue sky. Or night, and it's still as dark and he's like, oh my god.

• 9:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or a loved one is like peering down, looking, that's also

• 9:57Corinne Vien?

  Like a four year old who like doesn't tell anyone that you're alive.

• 10:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's actually another aspect of this that we need to consider is that that means that humans, living people can look down and see the corpse below.

• 10:08Corinne Vien?

  That is right.

• 10:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is creepy.

• 10:10Corinne Vien?

  That is exactly right. So on the side of this mound, there's the concrete cap, the large square, the glass looking down. You can peer down nowadays, you can't really see anything.

• 10:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:21Corinne Vien?

  You can maybe get like a couple of inches down, but like condensation and moss and just like

• 10:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 10:26Corinne Vien?

  The elements over time has, has made it obstructed the view.

• 10:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fogged up the window.

• 10:32Corinne Vien?

  His breath over the past two centuries.

• 10:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh gosh.

• 10:36Corinne Vien?

  Century and a half, almost. Yeah. So at one point, the caretakers tried to install new glass to basically let us all look at the Him dead.

• 10:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause we're sick.

• 10:45Corinne Vien?

  But the Vermont winters, it just like wasn't gonna hold up.

• 10:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Corinne Vien?

  So now it's largely opaque, but it was said up until like the early nineteen hundreds. So I don't think it lasted more than a couple of decades of actually being able to like peer down. That you would get glimpses. You could like, if you really squinted your eyes and the light was just so, you could look down and see Timothy's dead rotting corpse. His skeleton probably at that, at that point. Yeah.

• 11:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Scary.

• 11:11Corinne Vien?

  Scary. So according to local accounts and cemetery lore, Timothy was buried with some tools to escape. He had a buzzer. A bell, which was attached to his hand. So he didn't have to like rifle around to find it. Like it was tied to his finger, which is like the dead ringer, you know, like. Your muscle twitches and a ring or a bell rings above your grave, indicating to whoever's in the cemetery, hopefully listening that you are alive. And this was a very common device in safety coffins at this time.

• 11:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep.

• 11:39Corinne Vien?

  He had a respiration tube for air that went all the way to the top. And some say he also had a ladder to try, which I don't, there was no talks of like. How he would have shimmyed himself up a ladder.

• 11:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. Well, now this is making me wonder because we just talked about where dead ringer comes from. Where does Jacob's ladder come from? What's that? Who's Jacob?

• 11:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I don't know. Cause I just think of the plant.

• 12:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Let's see. Oh, it's in the Bible.

• 12:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man. CCD failed us. Or did we fail CCD?

• 12:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Jacob's ladder refers to a dream Jacob had where he saw a ladder reaching to heaven with angels descending and descending.

• 12:15Corinne Vien?

  Oh, it's like staircase in the woods. I was literally just thinking that. I was like, oh, about the scary version of the staircase. It's the same, aren't they?

• 12:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They just made it sound nicer in the Bible.

• 12:25Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So now obviously people go to this grave. You, you still, a lot of people try to look into it. And if you're watching on YouTube, I do have a bunch of photos and stuff. So you can kind of see. Yeah, like there's literally a close up. Here, I'll show you Sabrina. So you're not left out. People leave like pennies and stuff around. But it's basically it's, you just see like stone and moss and complete darkness. Like you cannot see anything.

• 12:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It does look like the entrance into a cave.

• 12:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I do wonder if you had like an intense, high powered flashlight and you went at night when there was no other light obstructing the view. What you would see. Although it does kind of look like the moss has since

• 12:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Grown up.

• 13:00Corinne Vien?

  So I think he might be completely covered at this point. But you can still peer down. It's like completely open. There's no gate around it or anything. But now, obviously, there are some ghost stories attached to it.

• 13:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Love it.

• 13:13Corinne Vien?

  So people claim to see a dim light under the glass at night.

• 13:19Corinne Vien?

  Perhaps a ghost of him holding like a lantern down at his coffin, but he also wasn't buried with any light.

• 13:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's his spirit.

• 13:25Corinne Vien?

  His spirit, the orb, his spirit shining and showing itself. And that's pretty much it. So there's not too much else going on with his.

• 13:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Does the ghost still exist there or have they removed the bell?

• 13:38Corinne Vien?

  That's a good question. I don't think the bell does exist, but actually, okay, well, I said that that's it, but there are a couple of other ghost stories because people talked about hearing or like claimed to hear kind of like the muffled ring of a bell. And apparently there was one time where the bell at his grave did actually ring and people were around and saw it. But people were like, it was long enough after he'd passed and much more like recent where, you know, I say that, but like, I think because of the way it was written, I thought it was more recent. But I actually have no idea when in history after his death this happened.

• 14:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But clearly it was long enough after he had been buried that they were like, it's not possible.

• 14:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I think people were like, oh my God, is this a ghost? Is this an animal? Like what's going on? But it like truly started ringing.

• 14:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. Well, that's my other question is how do you tell, how do you differentiate between the wind causing the bell to ring? And the person inside the casket making it ring?

• 14:32Corinne Vien?

  Well, I guess if it was the wind, it would just be like the acryl bell moving back and forth. But if it was the casket, you'd see the pull of the string, right?

• 14:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I guess I haven't seen this in person, so I don't know the mechanisms of it, but.

• 14:44Corinne Vien?

  And I don't know if the bell's still there. That's a really good question. So Timothy Clark Smith, he was not buried alive luckily, but down in Appalachia, one Kentucky woman was not so lucky.

• 14:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In Appalachia?

• 14:56Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm. And this is content warning for infant loss.

• 14:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, shoot. Okay.

• 15:00Corinne Vien?

  Octavia Hatcher, she was a young Pikeville, Kentucky woman who reportedly suffered a horrific fate in. Ninety one. She was born in the eighteen seventies and she married this local entrepreneur, James Hatcher in eighteen eighty nine. So in January eighteen ninety one, the couple was so excited because they were going to welcome their child. They were pregnant and they were going to have a little boy, Jacob. Well, they didn't know that they were having a little boy at the time.

• 15:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You couldn't have. Yeah.

• 15:27Corinne Vien?

  But, yes, they named him Jacob after he was born, but unfortunately he didn't make it after a few hours. So he passed in very early infancy, right after delivery. So Octavia is completely overcome with grief. She like cannot possibly get past this. She is so sick and she actually falls ill and ends up going into this coma, but no one knows she's in a coma. Everyone thinks

• 15:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it's also eighteen ninety one.

• 15:57Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 15:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're not.

• 15:58Corinne Vien?

  Right. And she was sick before. So everyone thought she died of her sickness. It wasn't just like a random.

• 16:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So she went into like a catatonic state?

• 16:06Corinne Vien?

  Basically. So in April, she fell ill and on May second eighteen ninety one, she was pronounced dead. She was to be buried immediately due to the hot spring weather and the lack of embalming. Days later, several Pikesville residents suffered very similar illnesses, but none of them died. A few of them started to go into this sort of like catatonic coma like state. And this is when the panic kind of struck everyone in town and the doctors and her family because they were like, holy shit, did Octavia have the same thing? And we just buried her alive?

• 16:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm glad that that's what they jumped to because what's the story that, um, oh, the Vampire of Mavedza, that story we covered a couple of episodes ago. I mean, I think probably a couple of months ago now at this point, but like where the guy died and then a bunch of people started getting sick and they jumped to like, oh, there's a vampire.

• 16:59Corinne Vien?

  There's a vampire.

• 17:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm glad that they didn't jump to, oh, that that she's now risen from the grave and getting everyone else sick.

• 17:06Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. No, that they didn't think that. And they were trying to figure out what the illness was because everyone was getting sick and there were some theories about what was causing all of these illnesses. One was that perhaps there was a mosquito borne encephalitis. I'm not sure that this theory existed at the time or like much later.

• 17:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Corinne Vien?

  Um, and then also perhaps some gases escaping from a nearby mine. And that's kind of like why the whole town started kind of, you know, dropping all at the same time. So at this time, people are like, oh, my gosh, is Octavia buried alive? We just buried her underground. She was one of the first ones to have this illness. And then we thought she died and now everyone else is in these weird coma-like states, but no one's actually dying. Holy shit, what did we do to Octavia? So her family rushes to get her like emergency exhumation. And they do successfully exhume her coffin. Inside, they discover her fingernails bloody, the coffin lining torn, and her face is just like twisted horribly in this like terror of being buried alive because she had woken.

• 18:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so curious, how long?

• 18:11Corinne Vien?

  I think it was only a few days, but she there was not.

• 18:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because like, how much air? Like, how long did she have to suffer like that?

• 18:19Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah, I don't know.

• 18:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We did an episode on Blind Spot where Jane, Jamie Alexander, was buried alive. And we had to do like so much research and like look at the physics of like the size of the coffin, how deep it was buried to calculate how much air she had and how much time she had.

• 18:39Corinne Vien?

  They did that buried alive on the show Traitors, remember?

• 18:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:42Corinne Vien?

  The very first season.

• 18:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's they're not like really buried alive.

• 18:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I guess they have breathing tubes.

• 18:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. That's a reality TV show where they're not trying to kill people.

• 18:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, so I don't I don't know how long, but I know it was just a few days later, like within the first week, I think that they went to bury her. So obviously, there was a lot of evidence that she had woken and realized that she was buried alive and attempted to escape, but sadly.

• 19:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So sad.

• 19:11Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, she succumbed to a very tragic, tragic end.

• 19:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, because when I hear things like that, immediately my brain goes to being in that scenario myself and like trying to put myself in their shoes, which I shouldn't spend time doing that, but like, yeah.

• 19:25Corinne Vien?

  It's natural too, yeah.

• 19:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But clearly, she tried to scratch her way out and.

• 19:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 19:30Corinne Vien?

  The absolute panic, right? And then her poor husband, James, like he just lost their child and then now he's lost his wife and beyond just losing his wife than to learn of the complete horror that she faced in her final hours. It's

• 19:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like losing her twice.

• 19:48Corinne Vien?

  Devastating. Yeah. So he commissioned a life-sized marble statue of Octavia. He had it sculpted in Italy and erected on her grave in eighteen ninety-two alongside a smaller monument for their son Jacob. And I've included some photos of both of those in the YouTube.

• 20:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is a very romantic gesture. A man to commission a marble statue from Italy for you?

• 20:11Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. The statue is so huge too. Like her monument is really tall and then she stands atop it and then her son is like being cradled in like a little pillowy bassinet right below her. She's like standing protective, standing watch over the cemetery. It's really quite emotional. So the statue and Hatcher, Octavia, her last name Hatcher, it says Hatcher on the monument. So the Hatcher plot eventually became shrouded in supernatural lore. It is said that the statue periodically turns away from the city, which people were saying like it's a symbol of her rejecting everyone who just let her suffer.

• 20:51Corinne Vien?

  However, in the nineteen nineties prankster college students were caught going there and rotating the statue. And they also broke part of her statue.

• 21:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Rude.

• 21:03Corinne Vien?

  Very rude. So a fence and a marble base were later added to help protect her and the site.

• 21:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenewvo in a couple of weeks.

• 21:16Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 21:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenewvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour and it helps evaluate across major organs and Including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenewvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 21:58Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenewvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenewvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P R E N U V O dot com slash T G O G. Terms and conditions apply.

• 22:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenewvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenewvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenewvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenewvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

• 22:29Speaker 04

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• 22:59Corinne Vien?

  That is the story of Octavia, but now there's another story of a kind of similar situation. This person was not buried alive, but she had a similar end of life. This is a story of a mother's intuition and an Italian bride who was deemed a miracle. And this is content mourning for infant death and traumatic birth.

• 23:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 23:19Corinne Vien?

  It's hard because it's like these stories are all from like the late 1800s, early 1900s. So it's like there was a lot of that.

• 23:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, that's also reassuring that all of the stories of people being buried alive is from that time period and that there's not a lot of them.

• 23:34Corinne Vien?

  Because I don't fear, I don't think about being buried alive.

• 23:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I think my only fear of being buried alive is in tandem with like being kidnapped.

• 23:43Corinne Vien?

  Kidnapped, yeah. It's like a serial killer move.

• 23:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, right.

• 23:45Corinne Vien?

  It's not, it's not like doctors pronounced me.

• 23:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 23:49Corinne Vien?

  Dead.

• 23:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Dead.

• 23:50Corinne Vien?

  Right, exactly. I agree. In the shaded Italian section of Mount Carmel Cemetery, or Carmel, I think we've covered this cemetery, maybe? Mount Carmel Cemetery is just outside of Chicago. It sounds familiar to me. So maybe we did, maybe we didn't. I don't know.

• 24:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Who knows?

• 24:06Corinne Vien?

  But there's a life-size statue of a woman in a long wedding gown that stands atop her grave. Her name is Giulia Puccola Peta.

• 24:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, beautiful name.

• 24:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, B U C C O L A, space, P E T T A. I might have mispronounced that, but I'll call her Giulia. I know how to say that one.

• 24:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 24:25Corinne Vien?

  Uh, she's also known as the Italian Bride. That's what people call her.

• 24:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 24:29Corinne Vien?

  So Giulia's tombstone is famous not just for some ghostly activity, but also because the legend of her body's remarkable preservation and her spirit. It's said that her spirit now wanders the cemetery, but let's do some background on Giulia and how she got there. So young Giulia, she was this Italian-American woman. She married at twenty, became pregnant shortly after, but tragically in March nineteen twenty-one, during childbirth, poor Giulia and her son both passed away.

• 24:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 25:00Corinne Vien?

  She and her baby were buried together in the exact same coffin, so she was laying down in her coffin and she held her baby in her arms and they were buried in a casket together. I guess it was like custom in maybe Italian culture at this time, I read, that young women who died, uh, be buried in their wedding dresses. So she was wearing her wedding dress in her casket.

• 25:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That makes sense because you're buried in like your prized possession and probably your wedding dress was.

• 25:28Corinne Vien?

  The most expensive item.

• 25:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It still is like the most expensive thing that people spend money on.

• 25:32Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god, yeah.

• 25:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 25:33Corinne Vien?

  So Giulia's mother, Filomena, she was obviously beside herself when her daughter and her new grandson both passed.

• 25:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:42Corinne Vien?

  And soon Filomena began having terrible nightmares. These nightmares were about Giulia and basically Giulia was pleading with her in these nightmares, saying, Mama, I'm still alive.

• 25:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is like Zona Heaster shoe.

• 25:56Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm. And so Filomena was like, holy shit, I have to do something. My daughter was buried alive. And so she starts petitioning to get the coffin exhumed and for people to look at it.

• 26:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 26:08Corinne Vien?

  Apparently, I read that she was a very intense woman, like she was pretty aggressive and like a scary lady. However, I guess none of the tactics she used in her own panic worked because for months, people refused to exhume the grave.

• 26:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I would literally go out there by myself and get a shovel.

• 26:27Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 26:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Because what's the worst that happens? You're wrong.

• 26:31Corinne Vien?

  You're wrong. And then you're just, you're just like a

• 26:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then you just re-bury.

• 26:34Corinne Vien?

  A mourning.

• 26:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Corinne Vien?

  There's so many excuses for your behavior after like grieving if people thought that that was a crazy move.

• 26:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I get it nowadays, especially because of like the whole embalming process. Like, there is no way for someone to be buried alive in that way. So if someone like a mom came crying, being like, my daughter was buried alive.

• 26:51Corinne Vien?

  They were killed during the embalming process.

• 26:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like, no, no, there's no way. But back then, why not?

• 26:57Corinne Vien?

  Right. I know. And it's like, I was like a grave robber.

• 27:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 27:01Corinne Vien?

  Body snatcher time, too.

• 27:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Get your shovels. We're going back in time.

• 27:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Poor Filomena. She was just like

• 27:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's devastating.

• 27:07Corinne Vien?

  Riddled with these nonstop recurring nightmares.

• 27:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 27:11Corinne Vien?

  Mama, I'm still alive. Mama, I'm still alive.

• 27:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then I also understand from their perspective, it's like, this is a grieving mother.

• 27:17Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Of course, she's having these nightmares and of course, she wants her daughter to be alive.

• 27:21Corinne Vien?

  Right. Yeah. She just lost her child in a very traumatic way. So she, Filomena grew very convinced that Julia was trying to tell her something that either she was buried alive by mistake or that her spirit was not at rest and Filomena needed to do something to help her daughter.

• 27:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:37Corinne Vien?

  But she didn't get anywhere with her pleas until six years later, in 1927, she finally succeeded and her daughter's coffin was exhumed.

• 27:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Six years later.

• 27:47Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm. And what they found shocked everybody.

• 27:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, no.

• 27:51Corinne Vien?

  Julia's body was in near perfect condition.

• 27:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 27:55Corinne Vien?

  No signs of decomposition, even though her infant that was still held in her arms had completely decomposed. So she was perfectly preserved and he had decomposed in her arms. Witnesses claim Julia looked as if she had just been buried that week, not years ago. And in fact, there is a famous photo that apparently Filomena took, uh, which we're going to show on YouTube, of Julia's exhumed body laying in her coffin. And it shows just how intact and like fresh she looks. Her skin, her features, it's all so preserved. So here's a photo of her in her wedding dress. And then there's her in her wedding dress in her coffin, six years later exhumed. Some people say like, oh, that that can't be true. That photo must have been taken like when she was buried.

• 28:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What's her skincare routine?

• 28:42Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. And it's so weird because people will say like, oh, it was something about like the fatty acid deposits and like, you know, trying to say all these things that like could have preserved her body. But if that was true.

• 28:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why didn't the baby?

• 28:54Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, like,

• 28:57Corinne Vien?

  if it was an environmental thing, her, her infant should have been experiencing the exact same thing, no?

• 29:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There has to be some scientific evidence and like proof for why she didn't decompose. And this is why body farms exist because maybe there was something in her body. Or maybe there was like a chemical that she had in her body. Did she take something when she was giving birth?

• 29:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know.

• 29:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I also, I'm glad that there was no evidence of her actually being buried alive.

• 29:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 29:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That at least is reassuring because there's no like claw marks on her nails.

• 29:28Corinne Vien?

  Claw marks. The photo of her when she was basically exhumed, resurrected from the dead, so to speak, and a photo of her in her wedding dress, they are now on display on Julia's tombstone for all to see, marked into her grave, like etched into the stone. So naturally this discovery set imaginations ablaze during this time when rumors started going around that she had been in perfect condition six years after her burial. Some saw it as a miracle. This was a really big Catholic Italian community too. So they were like, this is a sign of her purity, a sign of her innocence. She was just 29 years old when she died.

• 30:09Corinne Vien?

  Her whole life ahead of her, she had wed, she was having her first child, her family, and she was gone too soon. And so a lot of Catholics started referring to her as. Corruptible, which was a term that they used often for these types of conditions, which I guess happened every once in a while. And it was a sign of holiness. So like, I think when you go to Italy now, or like Spain, and there's certain churches and mausoleums and stuff where you like can look in on preserved bodies.

• 30:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Corinne Vien?

  That are deemed saints oftentimes. And so there was kind of this petition to make Julia a saint.

• 30:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 30:42Corinne Vien?

  She was not canonized as a saint.

• 30:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, it's so.

• 30:45Corinne Vien?

  But at the time, they wanted her to be.

• 30:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is like so pleasant, but it's so interesting how in like history, and I am gonna refer back to the vampire of Mavedza, like why one iteration is viewed saintly, the other iteration and group of people are like, oh my gosh, this is a vampire.

• 31:01Corinne Vien?

  Monster, killer.

• 31:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly.

• 31:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 31:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I would have preferred to live in this community.

• 31:06Corinne Vien?

  Right? Yeah. Chicago, baby. People started calling her La Bella Adormentata. Sorry.

• 31:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ooh.

• 31:14Corinne Vien?

  Sleeping Beauty.

• 31:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 31:15Corinne Vien?

  Her mom claimed that she had been preserved by divine intervention. And to honor this, she commissioned this beautiful statue of Julia on her wedding day. That now adorns her grave with an epitaph and with the two photos.

• 31:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's nice.

• 31:30Corinne Vien?

  And her wedding gown on her wedding day, and the other supposedly taken when her grave was brought back up from the ground six years later.

• 31:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So my question is, did Julia's mom have these nightmares for six years?

• 31:44Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Six years of nightmares.

• 31:46Corinne Vien?

  Apparently they stopped when she was exhumed.

• 31:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 31:49Corinne Vien?

  Wow. So like what it means, I don't know. What Julia's message was, I don't know.

• 31:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 31:54Corinne Vien?

  Apparently she was, yeah, preserved. And maybe this was like supposed to be some sort of miracle to like give the community hope for some reason at this time. I have no idea.

• 32:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or she wanted one last goodbye. I don't know.

• 32:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 32:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So interesting.

• 32:05Corinne Vien?

  But Julia, who was buried in her wedding dress, a white dress, became a lady in white.

• 32:13Corinne Vien?

  Enter the lady in white, Julia. So soon, people reported seeing a woman in a white wedding dress roaming the Mount Carmel cemetery at night. And she would be seen kneeling by a particular grave. And this grave was her grave, Julia's grave, or it was presumed to be her grave because it was presumed to be Julia's spirit. People would also see her walking down roads between tombs, only to disappear when approached. A lot of people driving late at night said that they would see her walking around. And there's one well-known tale, there's kind of two versions of it, so we'll tell both versions, that a young boy got lost in a cemetery. And when he was found, he told his parents that he'd been guided back to the gate by a nice lady in a white dress who had taken his hand and brought him back.

• 32:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's so beautiful, especially knowing that Julia's son died in childbirth.

• 32:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, right. She's like helping the children.

• 33:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 33:02Corinne Vien?

  And in this legend, the family leader passed Julia's monument, and the boy excitedly pointed and said that that was the lady who helped him. There's another version of the same story that says the parents actually watched a woman in a white dress, holding their child's hand, bring him back to them. And then as soon as they were reunited, she just disappeared in front of their eyes.

• 33:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love Julia.

• 33:22Corinne Vien?

  Right. So Julia's spirit is benign. People are not very spooked by her, other than like just your general spooked when you see a ghost. People wonder if her figure still remains because maybe she was looking for her child, or simply she's just there to help the lost and the grief-stricken.

• 33:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I like to think that she's also there helping new souls.

• 33:45Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If, because I don't know if the cemetery is like one that people are still being buried at.

• 33:49Corinne Vien?

  Continue to be.

• 33:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, I like to view her as this like motherly figure for any spirit.

• 33:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, that's really beautiful. There was, again, I have no idea how true this is because this was on one Facebook thread, like in a comment. So who knows if it's true, but some people have said that the statue, her statue, sometimes moves on its own, like the hands or like the eyes will like move direction or look like they're following you. Who knows?

• 34:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Corinne Vien?

  Uh, that definitely could be part of the lore or just one person on Facebook.

• 34:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 34:18Corinne Vien?

  Made it part, tried to.

• 34:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Telephone game.

• 34:20Corinne Vien?

  Telephone game. So Julia's story, like others we've heard, highlights the fine line between grief and the supernatural. A mother's desperate love led to a shocking discovery. So yeah, this is the buried alive episode. So whether it's a window to death in Vermont, a ghostly bride guiding the lost in Chicago, a bell that maybe rings, or nightmares that consume you long after the dead have gone silent. These graves and these stories remind us that death doesn't always mean stillness. There's echoes of grief, obsession, nightmares, and sometimes something for a stranger. So what would you do if you were buried alive?

• 35:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cry. I mean, that's a good question. Yeah. Um, beg. Cause that's so, it's so, that you can't do anything unless you do have a bell attached to you. Like the chances of you surviving are so slim.

• 35:15Corinne Vien?

  And you have to fight the panic because the more you panic, the more you breathe, you use up all your oxygen.

• 35:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But regardless, it's a painful, horrific, like torturous death.

• 35:26Corinne Vien?

  That's why people were so scared of it.

• 35:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Slowly suffocated.

• 35:29Corinne Vien?

  And it is wild. I mean, I glazed over it, but like Timothy Clark Smith, he created that whole contraption for himself. But like, that was a popular thing. These like safety coffins of the time where people, I'm sure it was like a quite an arm and a leg

• 35:44Corinne Vien?

  to buy one of those. But like, there was a whole thing, a whole time period where people, because it was common enough, or at least the stories and the fear of being buried alive, was permeating all of the different communities that people were like being buried in what they felt was like almost safe proof.

• 36:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 36:03Corinne Vien?

  Foolproof.

• 36:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it also just makes me think of all the death practices that existed back in this time. And when I went to, in Marblehead, there's the Jeremiah Lee Mansion, and they offer tours. On the third floor is this, like, it was the children's floor. And so there's this room with a bunch of children's toys and a lot of things, but there's portraits. And I noticed immediately that the portraits all like, look a little weird. And the reason is because child death was so common, artists would paint bodies of children and go town to town selling them. And then they would paint the, the face of the child that passed away on top of these already painted bodies. So there's an infant

• 36:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  that passed away, and the infant's face is painted atop a four-year-old's body.

• 36:53Corinne Vien?

  Wow. I thought you were gonna say it's all like photographs of

• 36:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, let me find this

• 36:57Corinne Vien?

  postmortem photos. Geez, what a morbid, morbid thing.

• 37:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But like, it makes sense, right? Because people want to memorialize their children.

• 37:05Corinne Vien?

  But it also makes me sad that like, artists were not capturing a child's whole essence just because it was like, easier to make money and be more efficient.

• 37:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 37:15Corinne Vien?

  By pre.

• 37:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that's how many children were dying.

• 37:19Corinne Vien?

  We see it all the time. Like, New England has some old-ass cemeteries, and you'll be sitting in front of a grave, and you'll be like, come on, I wonder who this is. And you'll look, and it's like, four siblings. It's so, so sad.

• 37:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's hard. I don't know how people had so many kids. I feel like I'd have one child and spend like, my whole life, just like, helicopter, trying to make them all stay alive.

• 37:39Corinne Vien?

  No, yeah, this room has like, 15 paintings of children.

• 37:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow. Yeah.

• 37:45Corinne Vien?

  We'll put it in YouTube.

• 37:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There were a lot of them. But that's also why it's the most haunted room in the house, which we should go to that house.

• 37:51Corinne Vien?

  The Jeremiah Lee Mansion?

• 37:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 37:53Corinne Vien?

  They have, in the summer, they have like, little markets and flea markets.

• 37:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, but I mean, investigate.

• 37:56Corinne Vien?

  Oh. They do paranormal investigations there, too.

• 38:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They do.

• 38:01Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You know what?

• 38:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it was crazy, because I was like, these are just like, only one person was actually buried alive, because I didn't want it to be overly morbid. But there are plenty of stories of people truly being buried alive.

• 38:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I feel like what we should do right now is ask Google, what to do if you're buried alive. In case any of you find yourself buried alive, you know what to do.

• 38:21Corinne Vien?

  You can credit us when you're interviewed on the news about your survival. Credit us for gratuitating Google.

• 38:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. How did you do it? How did you survive?

• 38:30Corinne Vien?

  Well, I listened to this podcast, Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 38:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 38:36Speaker 04

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• 39:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Stay calm. Helpful, thank you. Assess your surroundings to find out if you're in a coffin or container. Can you move your legs? Is it wood? If it's solid, how heavy is it? Can you wiggle your fingers and toes? Try to create airspace. Cup your hands over your mouth to create a small air pocket. Don't waste energy. If you're in a wooden coffin, that's not too deep. How do you know how deep it is, though?

• 40:02Corinne Vien?

  And also, what are the chances you're in a wooden coffin? Have you seen caskets these days?

• 40:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 40:06Corinne Vien?

  They're friggin' thick. There's no way you're getting through that plastic.

• 40:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Here's what I'm thinking.

• 40:10Corinne Vien?

  And fabric.

• 40:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Nowadays, let's say, because the scenario that we've talked about, if you're buried alive, is probably another human has done this to you in like a killer murdering type of way.

• 40:21Corinne Vien?

  Right. Okay, so now a traditional burial, we're assuming that this is...

• 40:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You are...

• 40:25Corinne Vien?

  You're in danger.

• 40:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're a victim of a terrible monster. And this person's probably not going out and buying an actual coffin because that's sus. They might be crafting it themselves. Okay, if it's just dirt...

• 40:40Corinne Vien?

  If it's a killer, it's just dirt.

• 40:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then you have to dig, which I think is better because at least you could try to do some type of digging than being in a container. Because how do you get out of a container?

• 40:50Corinne Vien?

  Right. Well, that's where the air pocket thing is really important because the more you dig, like you're kind of caving dirt in on yourself. And you also have to figure out which way is up. So you have to do that by spitting. It's the same in an avalanche. You spit and you see which direction your spit goes.

• 41:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 41:06Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And then when your spit, like however it falls is the ground that's beneath you.

• 41:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, cause of gravity.

• 41:13Corinne Vien?

  Cause John Adams made that rule. And then go the opposite way.

• 41:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 41:19Corinne Vien?

  Honestly, what you just said feels more like a meditation to just try to keep yourself calm as you slowly die.

• 41:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Best case, carry an emergency whistle.

• 41:27Corinne Vien?

  Well, if you've been kidnapped, that guy's gonna let you keep your bright orange whistle on you.

• 41:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. They're not gonna check you for, and they're also not gonna be burying you in a place where you blowing your whistle is gonna help.

• 41:39Corinne Vien?

  You know what freaks me out? It's like you're probably in the woods.

• 41:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 41:42Corinne Vien?

  People are gonna hear that and be like, oh my God, it's paranormal, or it's a coyote.

• 41:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or they won't hear it at all.

• 41:48Corinne Vien?

  So you can't, I don't think you can yell help.

• 41:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I don't think you really could yell. I mean, you just have to hope that the person was dumb and only buried you like a foot underneath the ground, then you can get out.

• 41:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So hopefully none of you are buried alive, cause that sounds horrible.

• 42:02Corinne Vien?

  We're starting to be like Timothy Clark Smith. We're starting to get nightmares.

• 42:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But still, I am only scared of it from, I'm scared of human.

• 42:12Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 42:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Generally.

• 42:13Corinne Vien?

  Last night, I had it on the like nanette camera. I heard, I was home alone, cause Brian was gone for a long time, cause he is, he's a baseball coach. And their game started really late. He was gone for

• 42:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 42:24Corinne Vien?

  Most of the night. Not most of the night. He was back.

• 42:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He was gone till 3am. He's like, yeah, that baseball game went real late.

• 42:31Corinne Vien?

  He was back at 10:30, but to me, that was the whole night. I was terrified, cause at 9:45.

• 42:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh my gosh.

• 42:39Corinne Vien?

  Minutes earlier.

• 42:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Good start.

• 42:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Corinne Vien?

  I heard on the nanette camera, I heard the sound of a doorknob opening. Like it's very distinct.

• 42:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Corinne Vien?

  Get clicked. I was like, what the fuck? And then like five minutes later, I heard it again. So I was like, someone opened and closed the door. And I was absolutely panicked and I like went back and listened on the camera like over and over and over and over again. It was like the same thing. It was the clicking of the doorknob.

• 43:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did you ever figure out what it was?

• 43:05Corinne Vien?

  No, and I told Brian when he got home and he was like, I just walked through the whole house.

• 43:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think this is adding to just like Noah being open and maybe it's your grandma.

• 43:12Corinne Vien?

  He didn't stir it all because at first I was like, oh, is this just like him moving position or something or like the bed creaking?

• 43:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe your grandma was checking on him.

• 43:19Corinne Vien?

  Maybe, but it scared me.

• 43:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, especially when you're home alone.

• 43:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 43:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah. I do have a listener story, but I also wanted to just talk about a tangent real quick that I thought of while you were telling this story.

• 43:30Corinne Vien?

  Oh, also, sorry. My random story about the doorknob creaking open was because in the forty five minutes I waited for Brian, I like full on fantasized and like walked through every scenario of me brutally murdering the intruder. I had a whole plan.

• 43:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Corinne Vien?

  That person was bleeding out within like point five seconds of me getting to them.

• 43:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, you are a protective mama.

• 43:51Corinne Vien?

  My like survival instincts, I feel like over the past few years, like ten years ago, I might have been like, oh, like I would try to like break someone's leg and you know, like, you know, kind of keep them alive, but when?

• 44:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But now you're like instant death. Yeah, that's fair. I read a book that I recommend. It's called The Man Made of Smoke by Alex North, who he also wrote The Whisper Man, but really good. Highly recommend. It's like good. Both of them are good murder mysteries that I really like and I read them very quickly. But when you were telling your story and the lady in white, I was thinking now that I'm older and more wise and in a position where maybe I'll get married again. I have been thinking about how I feel like when I got married, I really didn't have the understanding of marriage rituals and like why people do the certain things that they do in weddings. And I now I'm like, I don't know if I'd want to wear a white dress.

• 44:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, one, so expensive.

• 44:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 44:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And two, the whole idea of a white dress is like supposed to be like the purity, the virginity and all of this stuff.

• 44:58Corinne Vien?

  That's the stark white.

• 45:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like.

• 45:00Corinne Vien?

  There's different types of white.

• 45:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, should I wear red because I'm a whore?

• 45:05Corinne Vien?

  The Scarlet Letter.

• 45:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 45:06Corinne Vien?

  S for Sabrina.

• 45:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This isn't my first time.

• 45:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I read that like purposely when I picked up my wedding dress, I did like ivory cream. Because I was like, I don't want people to think I'm a virgin.

• 45:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  God forbid they think I'm a virgin. I lived with my man before you even getting married, but God forbid. Because everyone at your wedding would have thought you were a virgin.

• 45:29Corinne Vien?

  No, but I've seen people do, I mean, I think it's still quite expensive, but I've seen people buy like really cool, amazing, like fluffy wedding dresses and dying them like pink or like a light blue. Like Sleeping Beauty.

• 45:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is pretty. I also just feel like I took the wedding. Okay, here's, we're gonna get, get into my psyche a little bit. I grew up very much with this mentality of be a good little girl. Like sit there, be quiet, do what everyone tells you. Like that was just the mentality I was raised with and that was like very ingrained in me.

• 46:03Corinne Vien?

  Which is so wild knowing your sister, because.

• 46:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 46:07Corinne Vien?

  I can imagine anyone telling her to be a good little girl and her complying.

• 46:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No one did. Well, everyone told her and she was like rebellious, but I think because she was the rebellious one. I was the like, I don't want to be the problem one, you know? You know, family dynamics. But I think when planning the wedding, I was like, yeah, you just do all these things. You just follow the traditions. You just do these things. And now as I'm coming into my own and exploring like what I like and what, what's mine. I am like, I want to be more self-expression in all ways of life. And so if I were to throw another big party for a union of lives.

• 46:47Corinne Vien?

  It's another way of saying a wedding.

• 46:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, but I don't know if I would legally get married again, but I would want to do it like way more personal and like funky.

• 46:56Corinne Vien?

  What would you want to do?

• 46:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know, but like I wouldn't want to do all the traditions.

• 47:00Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, well, you did it. It's done.

• 47:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, right. I already did that version.

• 47:05Corinne Vien?

  Been there, done that.

• 47:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Been there, done that. That's so, that's so 2020.

• 47:09Corinne Vien?

  That's so 2020 of you.

• 47:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But anyway, a listener story, that's what I have. If you did like funky things at your wedding, please share with me because I, not that I have one coming anytime soon, but start my mood board. So I did warn that this story involves someone being buried alive. This is from our listener Tiffany and it is called Being Sensitive With Many Ghosts. Hi, my name is Tiffany and I have grown up seeing, interacting and speaking with spirits since a very young age. I'll give you some of my most crazy or amazing experiences and not my entire life because I'm sensitive and I see ghosts very regularly. When I was eight years old, my grandma passed away. That night, I woke up in bed and I found my grandmother laying next to me. I could see the indent in bed where she was and it was terrifying because her jaw was

• 47:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  locked sideways and open. I only know that she was there because my younger brother woke up in the bed with me and started screaming. That morning, he told my mom and my mom was like, no, it's just a dream, but I could see my grandma standing next to her. I found out later at 16 years old that when my grandmother died, the nursing staff that would go into rooms in the assisted living area didn't find her for hours and rigor mortis had already set in and her jaw was locked open.

• 48:23Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh, oh, this is horrifying.

• 48:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is also really sad that her spirit is still showing up that way. But I do imagine if it's like so soon after death that like the ability to show up in a different way wasn't possible yet.

• 48:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and there's probably a lot of confusion.

• 48:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 48:41Corinne Vien?

  She might have still been like in some way, her soul still tethered to her body until she was discovered, you know?

• 48:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, now this is the story that involves being buried alive. Content warning, it involves a story of murder. When I was 14 in high school in California, it was an outdoor school and I would sit and eat lunch with my friends behind the buildings, looking out at the desert. One day, a girl's spirit kept showing up to me. She was following me through all of my classes, following me everywhere throughout school and throughout the day. Every time she came near me, I would get this horrible headache and feel like my chest was being compressed and that I was being suffocated. This continued for weeks before I finally asked her, "Why are you following me?" She told me that she was over there and pointed out towards the vast desert.

• 49:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This was still a natural desert because the Cuss Country team used it, but she pointed me to an area on the school grounds. I followed her. I followed her all the way to a spot where there was loose dirt. I called my principal, who called the police, and it turned out a girl was buried there.

• 49:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She had been knocked unconscious and buried alive. They still don't know who did it.

• 49:50Corinne Vien?

  Holy shit, this is recent.

• 49:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. I don't know, Tiffany doesn't like, mention like how long the person had been buried there, but...

• 50:00Corinne Vien?

  Tiffany's reminding me of that one girl, like the Goth girl in the Lovely Bones, who like sees her, sees the spirits.

• 50:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That movie is so sad. When I was seventeen, my now maid of honor was being haunted by three spirits. A demon who liked playing with her niece and ended up killing her dog. A little girl who liked to tickle her feet and play with her hair. And a woman who never really wanted me to see her. These hauntings got so bad that the demonic presence started mimicking her grandparents' voices and her brother's voices when they were not home. Side note, if you feel a negative energy and feel pulled to look at it, do not look at it. Also, for both of you, you say you feel presences around you sometimes. If you're ever scared, you can say with conviction, "If you are not with God, be gone." My protective spirits told me this, and they say it's a guarding rule that spirits and demons must follow.

• 50:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In my friend's house with my mom, she worked with my mom, and that's how we became friends. We cleansed her house based off what my spirit guides told me to do. We used salt, holy water, and told the spirits to leave and that they did not belong there. During the cleansing, there were so many loud bangs and thuds. But after the cleansing, it felt like they had all left. Until that night, when we slept over, I felt like something was watching me. And I got very little sleep. But in the morning, my mom told me, yep, there's something still here. Because apparently I had gotten up, screamed her name. And then she came running to me in the middle of the night. And I was asleep, apparently like waving my arms in the air. To the point where she had a bruised eye when I saw her in the morning.

• 51:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Apparently, I was asleep and then just stopped and went back to sleep.

• 51:39Corinne Vien?

  This makes me think of your sister again.

• 51:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Then this one comes from my mom, but it also includes me. I had a surgery the night before this happened and my mom was taking care of me. It happened a year ago, I'm 22 now. And she felt like staying in my bed because she said there wasn't a good feeling in my spare room. In the middle of the night, she was woken by a little girl who she said looked like me. She said that she got an overwhelming urge to leave the room. Because she felt like she was in the spot that the little girl needed to lay in. Which was in Tiffany's bed.

• 52:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She left and when she got to-

• 52:12Corinne Vien?

  What the hell, you just offer it up?

• 52:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think she was like half asleep because the next sentence says, she left and went to the other room. But then she got to the other room and was like, wait, what? There's no other children here and ran back to check on me. I was fine and the girl was gone. When she told my best friend Allison and I this story the next morning, Allison freaked out and said that she had seen this girl as well. They described her and I responded with, that's my sister. I don't know what I had said, but my mom looked terrified and then told me the strangest thing in the world. Apparently, I was supposed to be a twin. But I had absorbed my twin before birth.

• 52:49Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I have chills.

• 52:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I still get an eerie feeling when I think about it because, one, never has she shown herself to me personally. Two, I didn't know that I was supposed to have a twin. But I seemingly said it that morning when they were talking about it. Anyway, I have a million other stories. I love your podcast, not just for the spooky stuff, but because it's helping people broaden their ideas of what the paranormal looks like. Thank you, guys. Tiffany.

• 53:13Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my god. That is interesting because it's like, if we think about like souls and maybe like two souls, we're like, yes, we get to be twins. And they decide to go together, but they can't help what physically happens.

• 53:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 53:24Corinne Vien?

  Also, I have a science question.

• 53:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, what's your second question?

• 53:28Corinne Vien?

  Can only identical twins absorb the other? Because they share the same sac?

• 53:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that's interesting. I don't know. Imagine having triplets. Scary. There's so many stories of people who are like, I had one kid and then we were, let's just have one more and then they give birth to triplets.

• 53:45Corinne Vien?

  I know, it's crazy. Well, I think it was happening a lot with people doing IVF, but I know a lot of states, there's a lot of like now, I don't know if it's like universal across the US, but most places you can only try one egg at a time because before they were implanting multiple and that's how so many people were having multiples.

• 54:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This girl that we went to college with, she and her husband ended up getting a surrogate. The surrogate got pregnant. Within a month or two, our friend got pregnant. So now they're having two babies within two months of each other.

• 54:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Isn't that wild?

• 54:26Corinne Vien?

  Also, I just learned, maybe this will be like a learning moment for all of us, that the term Irish twins is derogatory.

• 54:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it?

• 54:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, apparently it was like created or like used to be like rude towards like the Irish Catholic immigrants who were and their views of like birth control and having large families.

• 54:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 54:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. So basically, oh, I've used that so many times, I'm not gonna say that anymore.

• 54:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What I learned from this is it's okay to say like and um because those are safe words and they mean that you're thinking about what the next word you're gonna say is.

• 54:57Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. But holy, holy, here's a swear, holy shit.

• 55:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Balls.

• 55:02Corinne Vien?

  Balls. Because that's crazy. I, I can't imagine having a two-month-old that you're trying to care for and then going into the hospital to give birth to another child and starting the process again and like,

• 55:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Corinne Vien?

  the two-month-old still needs so much.

• 55:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like basically like having twins. And also being eight months pregnant with a newborn. And then, yeah, like all that whole.

• 55:27Corinne Vien?

  It's a lot.

• 55:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But also a miracle. Amazing. Anyway, this was, we, we covered a lot here. Ran the gamut.

• 55:32Corinne Vien?

  It started with being buried alive and now we've got weddings, we've got pregnancies.

• 55:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Babies. You know, you get married, you have babies and then you get buried alive.

• 55:42Corinne Vien?

  That, unfortunately, that did happen to a lot of people in my story.

• 55:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ah, well, go ahead and share all of your paranormal encounters with us. Email them to us at [email protected]. Join us on Patreon. Tell your friends about us.

• 55:57Corinne Vien?

  Shout out to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces our podcast. Thank you, Jamie. We love you all so much and we will.

• 56:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See you on the other side.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Stonefire Non is inspired by ancient traditions, baked on stone at blazing high heat. But it's perfect for your new traditions, too.

• 56:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love putting out Stonefire Non with dips for board game night. Or with cinnamon and sugar for my book club gals.

• 56:24Speaker 05

  We enjoy Stonefire Non before the ritual summoning of the Nameless Ones.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  We invoke the Nameless Ones. They shall not be named.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  And we do Stonefire pizza parties for the kids.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  I'm really scared right now. Stonefire, from our tradition to yours. Together, we on.